00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:28 fr: bring back clinging! 00:08:52 I am glad to report that the ozo's armour nerf was actually accepted on SA 00:10:09 -!- West1C has quit [] 00:10:27 wouldn't that suggest it was a bad idea? 00:10:32 :p 00:14:21 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:18:07 -!- morik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:02 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:17 -!- slurkki has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:29:21 <|amethyst> mighty cheibriados buffs 00:38:07 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:15 haha 00:42:15 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:25 ozo's armor nerf is also a tengu buff 00:42:55 i suppose also any of the other fast races 00:43:05 although i don't know why you'd bother on a centaur 00:45:54 i feel like ponderous 1 isn't enough to matter 00:47:07 -!- IrkenInvader has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:48:46 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:51:45 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 00:51:57 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 00:52:11 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:55:07 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:22 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:23 if you're a speed-10 race, ponderous is pretty serious 01:03:28 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1273-g8ec5f8e (34) 01:07:33 is it? 01:08:09 you give up the ability to run away from stuff, really 01:08:38 ug, ozos gives ponderous? 01:08:44 that is the worst 01:08:50 well, you need to put more work to separate yourself from an enemy 01:08:55 but luring's still fine :V 01:08:56 does it actually? i thought it was still just proposed 01:09:04 check the recent commits 01:09:04 yes pf commited that 01:09:20 !remove PleasingFungus 01:09:21 03amalloy * 0.18-a0-1554-g2875ee4: Remove PleasingFungus 10(in the future, 18 files, 896+ 829-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2875ee4 01:09:32 I don't think that's a great way to address the problems of that spell 01:09:42 anyway, temporary ponderous is even less dangerous than regular ponderous :v 01:10:16 gammafunk: How would you have fixed it 01:10:17 even aside from the issues of it being good, it steps on statue form 01:10:58 Well if you accept that casting a buff like that is a fundamental problem, I'd remove it and try to find a meaningful way to compensate the types of chars that wanted to use it a lot 01:11:14 is this really going to fix the problem of tedious re-casting of ozo's? 01:11:18 no 01:11:28 it seems like you either stop using it entirely, or choose to keep it up all the time 01:11:44 At least for forms this is relatively easy to do, but for chars like Dr or other light armour builds it's a bit trickier 01:12:09 I did the latter and the boost to my defenses was noticable even with me having 30AC before it anyways 01:12:47 the use of ozo for heavy melee users that were 1) forms users or 2) no-body-armour races or 3) otherwise characters in light armour so they could cast other spells was the interesting part of the spell 01:12:57 likewise for Phas 01:12:57 e 01:13:51 Phase was more for 1) than the other two, since 2) and 3) tended to have good ev, but phase was still commonly used, since the falloff in utility of having more EV I think is pretty ok at 30 ev even 01:13:54 update swiftness so it also reduces the ER of armour 01:14:04 while active, I mean 01:14:56 finally, it's time for AE to become the hybrid background 01:14:57 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:23 first lightning bolt has to be made less godawful 01:17:59 -!- eb_ has quit [] 01:18:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1273-g8ec5f8e (34) 01:21:40 why do squishy robe-wearing casters need +8 AC for nothing 01:21:55 no -EV, no -stealth, no -wiz 01:21:56 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:08 i guess "because they always have" 01:22:35 hey, some casters wear... leather!!! 01:22:45 whoa 01:22:47 kinky 01:22:50 why do only somewhat squishy melee characters who'd like to use some spells have to have extremely unfun melee 01:22:57 I guess "because that's super fun" 01:23:19 I'm fine with robe wearers who don't really do melee not having ac 01:23:20 is recasting ozo's constantly fun? 01:23:31 which is less fun? 01:23:46 casting a spell are having silly spikes in damage on your "melee character" 01:23:56 ontoclasm: it works in StDA so they can have more AC than melee guys in chain mail! 01:24:08 I'm not saying the recasting is good, just that it's a problem if we want to have a range of builds aside from "heavy armour" and "robe wearing mage" 01:24:28 what is the point of heavy armor then 01:24:39 so i assume that nobody has ever played a light armour trog character? 01:24:51 it's more ac, like ozo's... and has tons of downsides 01:24:52 the point of heavy armour is that the only other role is "robe wearing mage" 01:25:00 ? 01:25:01 I'm not sure what that reasoning is 01:25:16 heavy armour restricts you from using spells 01:25:22 not sure how that relates to ozo at all really 01:25:24 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:25:32 robe+ozo's restricts you from _____ 01:25:34 since heavy armour is unaffected by any change to ozo 01:25:44 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:49 robe + ozo is still terrible 01:25:55 uh 01:25:58 it really isn't 01:26:02 uh it really is 01:26:04 replace with leather since most species use leather :v 01:26:07 you get great EV and good AC 01:26:13 and full stealth and casting 01:26:14 you don't get good ac really 01:26:37 you can do some melee in a robe, it's not markedly less bad in the ways that it's bad by getting ozo 01:27:18 what about races who can't wear body armor at all 01:27:28 in something like mottled or tla, ozo puts the character in a better spot; and even putting aside armour chars, advanced forms without these buffs aren't very fun as the game goes on 01:27:32 like even with ozos Fe are still hilariously fragile 01:27:38 that's a bit different now for statue now that it has an ac buff 01:27:50 but using dform isn't very smart without any buff spell 01:27:56 gammafunk: Ozo's doesn't work with mottled, only steam 01:28:00 right 01:28:04 (it used to though) 01:28:05 yeah that was changed 01:28:13 more thinking tla or really good leather maybe 01:29:05 i just feel that if heavy armor is going to restrict casting that cost should like, actually pay off 01:29:10 in terms of defences 01:29:22 it's great if you're a Ds with icemail in good leather 01:29:25 I don't get what you mean 01:29:26 and it really doesn't if casting itself gives you fucktons of AC 01:29:36 and EV, don't forget phase shift 01:29:37 until you get hit by an oof or a fire giant or what have you and lose 21 AC 01:29:56 and there's rMsl and dMsl too 01:29:58 pay off of heavy armour is you win the game 01:30:06 @??orb of fire 01:30:06 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 120-178 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 8569 | Sp: b.fire (3d40) [06!sil], fireball (3d43) [06!sil], malmutate [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: human. 01:30:09 because it's really ok to win without spells in heavy armour 01:30:19 you have excellent ac and a ton of gdr 01:30:39 yeah, if i'm 3-5 runing in heavy armor i might go out of my way to get apport castable 01:30:43 maybe even rblink 01:30:47 I've had ozo stay up even through orb of fire fireballs 01:30:57 well, icemail will immediately melt 01:31:03 i'm not saying heavy armor is bad, i'm saying light-armor-caster is too good 01:31:09 sometimes fire attacks seem to affect ozo's too though 01:31:19 it just reduces the duration IIRC 01:31:38 that's probably it 01:31:40 if yo uwant full casting and stealth and ev it should cost you something 01:31:42 I don't think light armour casting is too good 01:31:52 but anyway, you could have ozo's do the same thing as icemail 01:31:58 just get wrecked by fire attacks 01:33:00 ProzacElf: but it's recastable 01:33:34 true 01:33:35 well if you're getting it melted recasting it sounds like a futile proposition 01:33:48 yeah, it already does get wrecked by fire attacks, but you can recast it and it sometimes survives the hit 01:34:04 well i guess if it melted like, all the way away to the slightest touch of fire 01:34:15 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:17 but as-is you can get blasted by an OoF fireball and half the time it stays on 01:34:41 The way it responds to fire isn't really the issue with this spell; the whole issue with phase and ozo is recasting 01:35:29 yes 01:35:30 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:40 probably the simplest thing is to just remove both spells (maybe some altogether different replacement for IE) and maybe adjust dform some 01:36:11 ozo's armour is the only level 3 ice spell 01:36:20 have ozo's give some corrosion after it expires and phase shift give -tele 01:36:22 :v 01:36:22 for light armour chars maybe something else can be made to help them out 01:36:36 a replacement or reduction in level of something else is probably needed 01:36:39 that is gross canofworms 01:36:46 haha 01:36:47 its almost as gross as an actual can of worms 01:36:52 you opened the can, what did you expect to find! 01:36:53 :D 01:37:04 can of beautiful sparkling unicorns 01:37:06 actual cans of worms: deceptively less gross than you might think 01:37:21 can of gummy worms 01:39:28 i bought a bag of what were billed as sour gummy worms from cvs 01:39:36 they really looked more like gummy maggots 01:40:28 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:44:24 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 01:47:36 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:07 quick question 01:55:15 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1273-g8ec5f8e 01:56:58 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:50 nevermind 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:17 http://sprunge.us/acGD 02:00:44 (it's a patch to remove ozo's armour) 02:01:29 (did I do it right?) 02:01:41 -!- FireSight has quit [] 02:03:17 Lightli: a level 3 ice spell that deals damage to all adjacent targets and slows their melee attacks by X% 02:03:33 on an HD check or something 02:03:40 I'd do it but I have no idea how to code anything 02:04:47 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:50 (I only made the patch via basically looking at PF's removal of stoneskin and doing the same things) 02:11:23 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:14:09 I'd not make a spell that's so similar to freeze, especially when adjacent damage and slowing monsters are already covered by ice magic 02:14:26 not to mention this spell sounds like it might be at meph levels of "always useful" 02:15:45 ??book_of_frost 02:15:45 book of frost[1/1]: Freeze, Throw Frost, Ozocubu's Armour, Throw Icicle, Summon Ice Beast, Condensation Shield 02:18:25 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 02:19:49 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:00 -!- wheals has quit [Client Quit] 02:25:45 -!- cmcbot has quit [Excess Flood] 02:26:40 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:30:24 it's interesting, playing nethack with the 32x32 tiles, many of which come from rltiles 02:30:26 i assume condensation shield is also on the chopping block here 02:30:35 the warg tiles in this look almost identicle to current crawl's wargs 02:30:36 i've never once played nethack with tiles 02:30:40 heh 02:30:47 I use tiles for streaming 02:30:52 makes sense 02:30:52 it helps people follow along 02:30:58 yeah 02:31:09 even when you know what's what console games can be hard to follow 02:31:21 see: footv 02:31:39 although i do think it's funny that crawl is about the only game that has a console option that i actually play in tiles 02:31:50 -!- Hellmonk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:31:52 i think that says more about the quality of the crawl tiles than anything else though 02:31:57 well crawl has pretty nice tiles these days 02:32:01 yeah 02:32:27 even as bad as the 32x32 nethack ones are, they're a lot better than the 16x16 default 02:32:39 a bunch of people have asked me: "how do I play nethack with this tileset" 02:33:55 heh 02:34:05 wait, are you actually playing nethack with tiles? 02:34:11 yeah, crawl tiles were a lot worse when i started playing 02:34:19 and even then they were head and shoulders above anyone else's 02:34:34 although dwarf fortress actually has some legit tile sets these days too 02:34:45 CanOfWorms: yeah, didn't you watch me stream it already? 02:34:54 I wasn't sure if you were proxying the stream 02:34:54 I'm not streaming now, just getting a char to quest 02:34:58 haha 02:35:00 like with crawl 02:35:03 oh 02:35:09 heh 02:35:13 3.6? 02:35:13 yeah you can do that if you play on nao 02:35:38 but no, it's hard to stream the x11 tiles version since the inventory and other menus are popup windows 02:35:46 so I'd have to stream my desktop, which is a pain 02:35:55 so I'm streaming glhack 02:36:01 it's 3.4.3 02:36:27 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 02:36:29 various aspects of the status readout are awful (the HP readout being the worst offender), but the tiles look decent 02:36:32 oh 02:36:36 haha 02:36:37 and another bonus: no fungi allowed 02:36:45 wonder if the tiles work on 3.6 02:36:46 it's a No Fungus Zone 02:36:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1274-gbbc4967: Don't let ghosts enter death's door (Lasty) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bbc4967adea6 02:36:56 who you trying to get to the quest? 02:36:57 yeah tiles would work fine on 3.6 02:37:06 a Rogue 02:37:11 ah, fun 02:37:11 I mean, I've gotten it to quest 02:37:18 this one needs to finish it 02:37:29 barbarian is the only class i've gotten past the quest on 02:37:32 need deng remove curse though so I can make unholy water (yes that's not a joke) 02:37:35 but i don't play a whole lot either 02:37:53 need unholy water so I can make a reliable source of confusion so I can level port so I can beat the quest level 02:37:55 my feeling is that permanent stacking slow that melds half your items is reasonably distinct from +10% move delay 02:38:00 as dumb as that sounds, it's the truth 02:38:06 you don't have a bunch of booze? 02:38:22 not ided as such, I've been making a lot of holy water 02:38:28 but ponderous 2 or higher might be creeping on that territory 02:38:30 but yeah those are easy to id 02:38:40 booze is usually pretty plentiful 02:39:01 i guess having a forgotten spell isn't really a fruitful suggestion if you don't already have one you're close to forgetting 02:39:15 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39:35 PleasingFungus: it makes using the spell for the kinds of builds I was talking about really icky 02:39:38 no one likes ponderous 02:39:47 and a slow dragon is no dragon at all 02:40:00 more of a....lizard...really 02:40:04 solution: make dragon fast 02:40:06 :) 02:40:19 I wonder if tengu dragon is fast. 02:41:03 I think the solution is probably to just get rid of all three of those spells and make some other compensations 02:41:17 What, exactly, are the builds you're talking about? 02:41:36 Before we go to solutions, I'd like to understand the problem a little better, as you see it. 02:41:36 -!- edsrzf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:41:59 mostly tla/leather armour types, dragon form, theoretically hydra, but I don't see people using the form enough and haven't much myself 02:42:15 i've been told that hydra form is pretty legit for felids 02:42:16 I don't think that leather armour is a build. 02:42:19 i've never actually used it 02:42:31 if leather armour isn't then tla certainly isn't 02:42:57 i wouldn't want to try to wear anything heavier on most DE 02:43:10 maybe like mda/wda/ring 02:43:22 especially if ozo's is no longer an option 02:43:24 yeah those really don't need any ac buffs to do fine 02:43:31 I'm not saying it's not a viable item choice, I just don't think it's a build, any more than "amulet of dismissal" or "wand of cold" is a build. 02:43:51 ok 02:43:56 Like, summoner is a build. (Technically a few builds.) Berserker is a build. LogicNinja is a build. 02:44:07 I'm going to extend this to "heavy armour is not a build" 02:44:10 'build' no longer looks like a word to me. 02:44:12 logicninja transcends builds 02:44:13 and I'll be so right 02:44:46 build is a term that's not being use with laser-like precision here, if that's what you're saying, but for most characters using melee a central decision is: what armour do I use 02:44:50 speaking of logicninja, I wonder how their games have been going 02:45:09 so I guess extend it to "leather + a bunch of melee" 02:45:12 6 decjs in 2 days 02:45:17 Okay, that's very key context which I didn't have. 02:45:30 well, i think "what's my armour" is a pretty central decision on most characters 02:45:32 past melee 02:45:51 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:45:54 although i'm probably viewing this through the lens of always wanting melee to be a viable option 02:46:24 ProzacElf: sure, but if you don't hit things with a stick you don't care as much beyond "does this let me cast my spells" 02:46:34 *hit things very much with a stick 02:46:36 well, true 02:47:13 i mean, i had a tecj with tornado that i wound up wearing +8 fda on 02:47:23 but i had vehumet and a staff of wizardry 02:47:38 so i could either whale on dudes with my big sword or grab the staff to actually cast tornado 02:48:02 but yeah, the limiting factor there was "how can i cast my spells in this?" 02:48:19 rather than "what do i want to optimize my ability to beat on dudes" 02:48:20 I mean, we can leave in the ponderous thing I guess, I'll hate to use it, but a bunch of people like using chei 02:48:23 so they're maybe use it 02:48:35 I notice that very few people are using swift, which is kind of in a similar boat 02:48:54 well, i love ponderous gear on te/ce/sp 02:48:57 the -swift thing is really elegant but it turns a lot of people off from it past pretty early game 02:49:02 yeah 02:49:04 because there's not really a penalty 02:49:08 !lg prozacelf won s=god 02:49:09 14 games for prozacelf (won): Elyvilon, Zin, Okawaru, Lugonu, Yredelemnul, Gozag, Makhleb, Pakellas, Trog, Vehumet, Qazlal, Beogh, Kikubaaqudgha, 02:49:17 yeah, -swift makes it tricky to use 02:49:22 I don't like that there's nothing I can hate about that list 02:49:27 hahaha 02:49:29 like, throw me a bone here ProzacElf 02:49:40 I'd say that ozo's is still usable in some situations for your leather/hydra guys - pull to wherever you were planning on fighting, ozo's, fight mans. leaves you in a dicier situation but that's fine. 02:49:58 ironically (?), this would be a good combo with swiftness. 02:50:03 but 02:50:05 good point 02:50:10 yeah it's just distasteful. My dragon would never touch such ponderous filth 02:50:18 insofar as hydra and dragon or whatever are currently balanced around having ozo's up constantly 02:50:23 that's not reasonable and that should be rethought 02:50:25 gammafunk: you could be like "zin???? you could have at least 15 runed that!" 02:50:29 which I think is one of the things you were saying? 02:50:30 Maybe phase can get a mallus that's not horrible 02:50:49 PleasingFungus: yeah I definitely need some kind of buff to use dform as a "main form" at some point 02:50:56 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1274-gbbc4967 02:51:03 20ac + prot ring maybe, and phase, or just ozo+phase was the old thing 02:51:04 the word is "malus", and by that i mean "penalty" 02:51:15 since there is no reason to use "malus" instead of "penalty" 02:51:19 maluses that apply after the spell expires and also act as a cool-down period may not be a terrible way to approach it 02:51:33 phase unshift: you're stuck in place and suffer -8 ev 02:51:36 heh, but yeah, 'penalty' is probably more appropriate 02:51:38 not actually stuck in place 02:51:42 you're what now 02:51:44 that's flavor for the -8 ev??? 02:51:46 idk 02:51:46 haha 02:51:52 you get lignified! 02:51:55 but without the AC bonus! 02:51:57 trying to figure out what -8 ev even means 02:52:00 someone said phase could give -tele but that's probably kind of silly 02:52:11 *tele 02:52:11 <_< 02:52:16 You feel jumpy! 02:52:18 you get self-petrified! 02:53:13 anyway, gammafunk, I'm designating you to redesign dragon form. 02:53:21 I wonder if the advanced forms should have ac that scales with spell power? 02:53:27 they do... 02:53:29 I mean it might help int be more useful 02:53:33 does dform? 02:53:36 don't think it does 02:53:43 !source form-data.h 02:53:43 isn't that a statue thing 02:53:44 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/form-data.h 02:53:58 hm, I'm full of shit 02:54:12 yeah it's statue form and hydra form that have ac with power 02:54:24 and ice form 02:54:28 dform has a pretty big EV hit associated with it too 02:54:31 perhaps that's the thing for dform then 02:54:33 since you become ginormous 02:54:45 fact: hydra form's defenses were designed around "should not be better than dragon form's" 02:54:54 so any buff to dragon form's defenses can be accompanied with a hydra form buff 02:54:57 and i'm guessing that most people casting it have invested quite a bit into dodging on top of that 02:55:08 yeah, the size thing is... a little silly... 02:55:18 look, here's a fact: hydras have a lot of heads sure, but inside each head is a brain that's dumber than a stegasaurus' brain 02:55:35 dragon brains are epic in comparison 02:55:45 is this racism 02:56:34 Not according to Dynast 02:57:31 dang, I just got a wish from a throne 02:57:44 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:59:12 what's it gonna be? 02:59:15 imo acquire gold 02:59:31 got +2 blessed fixed speed boots, sorry 02:59:47 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:40 lame 03:03:19 -!- Harudoku` has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:03:57 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 03:04:47 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:04:55 clearly should have gone for gdsm 03:05:06 or silver if you lack reflection 03:05:18 already had it, two magic lamps from gnomish mines, first wish was gdsm, second grayswandir 03:05:25 oh 03:05:26 nice 03:05:29 and I got shield of reflect from an aelax 03:05:33 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:05:49 i guess no reason not to use a shield on a rogue 03:06:00 you don't get your backstab bonus for two weaponing anyway 03:06:07 yeah, two-handed saber+grayswandir is actually worse damage than just grayswandir 03:06:15 since they only get basic two handed 03:06:19 yeah 03:06:27 i assume you're just throwing daggers for your ranged? 03:06:31 yeah 03:06:41 solid 03:06:55 I uses daggers exclusively until I get a saber or something like stormbringer (or grayswandir if I'm lucky enough to get a wish) 03:07:01 yeah 03:07:03 man 03:07:04 heh 03:07:05 all these buffs 03:07:08 dragon form buffs, ozo's buffs 03:07:12 it's power creep for sure... 03:07:13 best i've ever done i almost made it to the castle 03:07:31 on an orc barbarian that i got gdsm and stormbringer on 03:07:34 buffs are the spice melange 03:07:36 statue form buffs 03:07:40 the worms are the buffs! 03:07:44 heh 03:07:45 muscular man buff 03:11:23 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0/20160123151951]] 03:12:55 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1274-gbbc4967 (34) 03:15:23 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 03:15:49 wow, speaking of which 03:15:58 dune is on bbc america 03:16:11 unless that is also why you went for a dune reference 03:17:45 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:19:42 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:05 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:29:55 -!- Blade- has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:33:36 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:35:21 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:10 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:19 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 03:44:13 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:44:49 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:50:35 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:47 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:48 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 04:20:45 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 04:22:08 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 04:31:33 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:08 -!- EspressoDan has quit [Client Quit] 04:37:09 i remember dual wielding always being better regardless 04:37:30 also grayswandir was better than punching on a monk 04:37:41 despite not even basic swords 04:37:44 and grand master martial arts 04:44:51 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:45:54 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 04:46:36 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:47:12 -!- ursan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:51:14 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:14 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:57:40 i've never gotten a monk past the stage where punching things doesn't just seem better. although i've never had greyswandir on one either 04:59:27 i think maybe it has to be a good artifact late game 04:59:31 because the enchantment is overpowered 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:13 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:00:51 also i don't think you can really overcome the accuracy minus to being completely unskilled until you're fairly high level 05:03:02 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:43 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:32 looking at my winning logs 05:05:45 it looks like i would always inscribe my boots with what resistances i had 05:05:49 like cold fire sleep shock SI 05:05:53 but what is SI 05:05:59 i have no clue what that is 05:06:51 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:08:14 DrKe: see invisible? 05:09:01 According to the damage tables on the wiki, dual-wielding grayswandir + silver saber is a bit less damage than 1h grayswandir for Rogue 05:09:35 is it because of the mechanic where it caps your skill at whatever your dual wield skill is 05:10:05 and yeah, definitely see invisible 05:10:53 my rogue is using stormbringer and a +2 corroded long sword 05:11:00 also 14 +4 daggers named [,] 05:11:01 "As you can see, due to the double backstab damage, Grayswandir by itself beats Grayswandir and a silver saber twoweaponed--against a non-silver-hating monster, where the silver damage doesn't help, the effect would be even more dramatic" 05:11:03 i remember those being good 05:11:07 the daggers 05:11:10 so it's specifically when you can backstab 05:11:27 +2 corroded long sword, going all out 05:11:27 all i can remember about backstab is that you could backstab with throwing daggers 05:11:35 it works for melee too, yeah 05:11:53 https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/K/Ke/dumplog/1366982641.nh343.txt 05:12:04 AC -22 05:12:05 it's not a notable difference in damage even then 05:12:27 iirc that was not even close to the most you could get 05:12:31 but it was still way more than you needed 05:13:09 well -20 is a good endgame target 05:13:14 it's not that much more than what you'd want 05:13:24 but many of mine were more -30 05:13:28 I think one was -40 05:13:57 you can eat rings of prot using polymorph and get like -127 or something 05:14:32 (only if rings of prot happen to be made of a digestable stone for whatever monster can eat them) 05:15:04 or metal, since you can use a different monster 05:17:11 !lg devteamnp month won s=name 05:17:12 11 games for devteamnp (month won): 4x Lasty, 3x gammafunk, 2x dpeg, Medar, reaver 05:17:25 !lg devteamnp year won s=name 05:17:26 279 games for devteamnp (year won): 72x elliptic, 72x Lasty, 35x amalloy, 35x Medar, 14x dpeg, 14x gammafunk, 12x MarvinPA, 6x doy, 5x reaver, 4x ontoclasm, 4x PleasingFungus, 2x wheals, felirx, SGrunt, bh, neil 05:17:41 seventy two... 05:17:56 i didn't think elliptic was around that much 05:18:01 i guess a year includes the tourney before last 05:18:11 weird to have 2 72s, 2 35s, and 2 14s 05:18:16 FR: the hat of bear spirit should look like a bear's head in tiles 05:18:39