00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:42 ??greatsling 00:02:42 greatsling[1/2]: 10-12 base damage (with stones & sling bullets respectively), 1.4 base delay, 0.7 mindelay. One-handed. 00:02:50 !learn edit greatsling s/-/// 00:02:51 Use: !learn edit greatsling[NUM] s/// 00:02:53 !learn edit greatsling s/-/\// 00:02:53 Use: !learn edit greatsling[NUM] s/// 00:02:57 !learn edit greatsling[1] s/-/\// 00:02:58 greatsling[1/2]: 10/12 base damage (with stones & sling bullets respectively), 1.4 base delay, 0.7 mindelay. One-handed. 00:03:07 !learn edit greatsling[1] s/ & /\// 00:03:07 greatsling[1/2]: 10/12 base damage (with stones/sling bullets respectively), 1.4 base delay, 0.7 mindelay. One-handed. 00:05:02 ??greatsling[2 00:05:02 greatsling[2/2]: it looks like a jockstrap made of brambles 00:05:22 I miss the "not actually all that great" entry <.< 00:05:56 right up there with 00:05:58 ??club[2 00:05:58 club[2/2]: Not a terrible weapon forged in the fires of hell -- just a terrible weapon. 00:06:56 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:58 my fists -- an utterly useless weapon 00:09:02 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:11:52 ??demonclub 00:11:52 I don't have a page labeled demonclub in my learndb. 00:11:55 pfff 00:15:26 did you forget about 00:15:28 ??demon whip 00:15:28 demon whip[1/2]: (maces & flails; +1 acc / 11 dam / 1.1 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A terrible weapon, woven in the depths of the inferno. Can be {bless}ed into a {sacred scourge}. 00:15:34 ??demon whip[2 00:15:35 demon whip[2/2]: It's not that terrible! 00:17:01 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 00:17:14 -!- Zannick has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:29 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:45 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:24:30 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:39 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:06 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:27:53 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:36:17 -!- halv has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:39:20 !hs * explbr=combo_god 00:39:21 118. Jarlyk2 the Tortoise (L18 DsGl of Ukayaw), blasted by Mara (illusionary) (bolt of fire) on Spider:4 on 2016-01-31 19:38:17, with 243319 points after 33312 turns and 3:21:29. 00:39:31 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:29 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:40 -!- wHATEver is now known as Guest4053 00:43:36 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:45:23 -!- Chousuke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:35 -!- broquain1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:16 -!- oberste1n has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:30 -!- Zeor has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- njorth has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- _sk has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- muravey has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- _fortis has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- Xandaros has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- fazisi has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- tksquared_ has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- myp has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- Mike57_ has quit [*.net *.split] 00:49:31 -!- Chousuke has quit 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now known as _fortis 01:11:30 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:37 -!- FireSight has quit [] 01:17:43 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:51 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1206-g2bec475 (34) 01:20:19 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:20:22 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:21:28 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:16 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:40 !learn add amalloy_todo don't print "you feel resistant to poison" when wearing rPois on a poison-immune race 01:23:40 amalloy todo[3/3]: don't print "you feel resistant to poison" when wearing rPois on a poison-immune race 01:25:34 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:26:44 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:27:21 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:28:20 -!- sorlin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:29:25 &dump itshotman 01:29:26 https://crawl.project357.org/morgue/ITSHOTMAN/ITSHOTMAN.txt 01:30:26 ??subdued magic 01:30:42 oops 01:31:26 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:32 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:40 -!- Menche has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:48 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1206-g2bec475 01:58:53 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:59:23 -!- sorlin1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:47 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:03:00 -!- Zeor1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:33 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:10:44 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:31 -!- fazisi_ is now known as fazisi 02:26:47 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:28:26 -!- sorlin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:10 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:46:19 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:26 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:49:12 -!- koboldina has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:49:35 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1206-g2bec475 02:56:01 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:58:35 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:07 -!- roadmap has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:03:01 -!- Harudoku` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:14 -!- Harudoku has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:05:18 -!- Naruni has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:33 -!- sorlin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:07:11 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:11:04 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:47 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1206-g2bec475 (34) 03:13:16 -!- 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PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 04:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:46 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:27 -!- maldini has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:47 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:36 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:31 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:32 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:59 -!- driftw00d is now known as Kikubaaqudgha 04:29:10 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:34 -!- Kikubaaqudgha is now known as driftw00d 04:30:20 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:31:29 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:36 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:34 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:10 -!- cang has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:40:52 -!- Jiharo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:48:16 -!- sorlin1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:54:37 -!- Fleurka_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:55:07 -!- Fleurka has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55:22 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:01 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:26 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:16 -!- Napkin_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:13:32 -!- Napkin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:31 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 05:18:56 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:56 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:19:30 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:39 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:26 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:10 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:35 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:26:45 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:28:03 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:36 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:33:57 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:46:24 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:52:39 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:25 -!- Suga_H has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:24 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:06:30 -!- sorlin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:09:59 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:33 disco pan should have altars of that new dance god 06:13:15 My sentiments do not seem to be too popular, but thanks to those who politely explained their point of view on the topic. Maybe it was mostly flavor, I suppose I liked it anyhow. If a plan ever emerges to re-introduce it in a more meaningful way, I'd be down to brainstorm on how it might work. Also, I have not worked on anything for awhile, but I have an extensive IT background including coding. The last time I look 06:16:31 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:30:14 -!- West1C has quit [] 06:31:08 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:36:21 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:36:53 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:17 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:23 Does the -5 ev on using stairs really deserve to be in the game:? At the very least it messes up ev stats on milestones. 06:54:53 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:08 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:49 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:02:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:26 -!- zwisch has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:14 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:24 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:58 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 07:14:10 -!- Ladykiller70 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:49 !lg * ukayaw won 07:17:50 1. mibe the Rhythm of Life and Death (L25 VSAs of Ukayaw), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2016-02-01 07:14:58, with 1755145 points after 58402 turns and 3:17:32. 07:17:59 haha, he even got the title. Sweet. 07:27:15 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:27:50 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:40 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:37:27 -!- nosratheno has quit [Quit: Zzzzz] 07:39:15 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:43:55 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45:06 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:48:20 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:50:42 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:30 chequers: that apology is very touching, but we're not adding any more pizza flavors and the discussion is final, so just stop 07:51:59 NO 07:52:00 NO 07:52:01 NO 07:52:28 yes 07:52:59 In a related note, I just ate two Pandemonium pizza in a row. I assume my char is immortal now. 07:53:22 Did your glyph change to an &? 07:53:41 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:48 . . . no. ( 07:53:49 :( 07:55:41 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:57:33 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:04 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 08:04:31 fr 08:06:46 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:01 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:50 vamp weapon swap causing draining rather than hunger an improvement? 08:22:40 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:24:59 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:27:31 -!- bgiannan has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5-dev] 08:31:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:32:25 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:53 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:36:05 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:31 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:02 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:51:33 -!- bgiannan has joined ##crawl-dev 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11:59:34 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:07 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:01 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1206-g2bec475 (34) 12:06:26 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:06:36 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:26 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:45 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:12 -!- roadmap has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:25 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:40 -!- molotove has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:28 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:35:52 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:36:45 -!- Zekka_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:14 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:20 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:48:20 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:49:25 -!- Amilir has quit [Client Quit] 12:54:16 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:56:42 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:09 -!- SirVagabond has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:35 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:09:56 -!- koboldina has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:15:42 -!- noppa354 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:21:48 -!- nikheizen has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:25 -!- molotove has quit [Client Quit] 13:27:51 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:30 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:37:09 -!- SummonerCarey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:40:03 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:00 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:51 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:51:02 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:54:29 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:45 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:11:00 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 14:13:13 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 14:13:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:28 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:14:42 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 14:21:51 -!- chance672 has quit [*.net *.split] 14:26:58 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:29 Anyone around wanna talk about confusion? There are a few proposals to confusion floating around, ranging from changing what it does to players to lowering durations to letting mummies immune to making !curing not cure it and more. I think at a minimum it needs to be unchainable, like paralysis. 14:34:35 -!- ConfusedFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:44 iirc rethinking confusion durations was the simplest thing that came up - they'd never really been balanced because everyone just !cures 14:35:56 I forget how much was done on that, if anything 14:36:57 -!- edsrzf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:26 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:30 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:03 making it more common to have to actually deal with it, but less significant on each occasion sounds sensible 14:42:12 shorter durations and no curing fix, is the obvious thing. curing could also just reduce the duration or something 14:42:19 -!- yottam has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:42:29 or be less common 14:42:55 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:25 i feel like curing is slowly having its space in the game eaten away by cancellation 14:43:28 ConfusedFungus: thanks for the on-theme name 14:43:39 np 14:43:50 MarvinPA made durations pretty much the same across the board 14:43:54 but IMO still too long 14:44:42 ConfusedFungus: is that true for anything other than confusion? 14:45:03 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:26 it's a vague worry I've had rattling around. I'd have to think about it to put it in some more solid form 14:45:50 -!- zxc has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:45:51 I'd be fine w/ limiting !curing to just dealing with poison 14:46:04 and making confusion 2-4 turns or something 14:46:18 and removing the ability to chain confuse 14:46:24 and then maybe giving it a boost against MR 14:46:29 like Mark 14:47:16 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:47:18 But then there's the question of whether it makes sense to have a status where you largely lose control of your character without just fast-forwarding to the point where you have control again 14:47:33 i don't see that chain confusion is necessarily a problem, in general i don't think having that be a hidden feature of a bunch of different statuses is great 14:47:35 Confusion does leave you a few options, tho 14:47:47 having unchainableness be a hidden feature, that is 14:47:47 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:17 MarvinPA: I think there's something to be said for having all (negative) statuses be unchainable, especially ones that remove player control. 14:48:29 (remove to a great or lesser degree) 14:48:46 -!- Torax_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:48:48 The feeling of being locked into confusion for turn after turn is pretty unpleasant 14:48:58 one of the least fun things that can happen in modern crawl 14:49:12 -!- cang has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:49:16 well sure, that is the point of confusion? taking damage turn after turn is also unpleasant 14:50:20 MarvinPA: Taking damage is bad for your character, and some people find things that are bad for their character unpleasant; being chain-confused is unpleasant for the player in that they have control but can do very little with it 14:50:30 i think it's fine to have cases where if you play poorly and don't think ahead you can get stuck in a bad situation, generally 14:51:13 <|amethyst> where "play poorly" means "don't find enough MR items"? 14:51:16 MarvinPA: what about situations where you play fine and do think ahead and still get stuck in a bad situation? There are situations where getting confused once could easily lead to indefinite confusion 14:51:28 |amethyst: or insufficient luck versus a tarantella 14:52:00 I lost a mummy with great defenses to a single tarantella at one point 14:52:13 I just never got a single turn w/o confusion, and I never randomly bumped into it enough to kill it 14:52:13 <|amethyst> with a tarantella you could theoretically stay out of melee at least 14:52:43 but the death took a remarkably long time 14:53:01 <|amethyst> with an awake monster with /confusion you have to never step into their los without a blocker, which is harder, particularly when you don't yet know they exist 14:53:09 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:22 doing something like shortening confusion durations seems fine to reduce the chances of that happening, i don't think those situations are common enough to merit specifically guaranteeing a way out early though 14:53:24 true, tho the wand eventually runs out 14:53:59 I've had characters early in the game just have to wait out all the charges on a wand and all the stacks of confusion that resulted. Many of them even survived... 14:54:49 <|amethyst> I guess shorter duration makes /conf run out quicker, so that's good 14:55:08 <|amethyst> with the spell you probably also want to make sure the casting frequency isn't too high 14:55:17 <|amethyst> because if monsters cast confusion like they zap the wand... 14:55:25 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:33 <|amethyst> fortunately, no one has chance-200 confusion :) 14:55:37 <|amethyst> s/chance/freq/ 14:55:37 haha 14:56:00 * geekosaur notes that he only loses to Sigmund if Sigmund spams confusion 14:56:36 !lg * ikiller~~sigmund / status~~confus 14:56:39 19448/130549 games for * (ikiller~~sigmund): N=19448/130549 (14.90%) 14:56:43 <|amethyst> but we do already have at least three mechanics that use temporary immunity for hysteresis 14:56:56 <|amethyst> confusion, banishment, and hibernation 14:57:09 <|amethyst> err 14:57:11 Paralysis you mean? 14:57:11 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:13 <|amethyst> s/confusion/paralysis/ 14:57:14 <|amethyst> :) 14:57:27 But yeah, all of which are effects that take some measure of control from the player 14:57:37 <|amethyst> well 14:57:52 -!- OldGuy_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:57:53 <|amethyst> does hibernation give immunity to players? 14:57:55 do players have it for hibernation? 14:58:01 <|amethyst> I was thinking of the vs monster effect 14:58:05 confusion and polymorph are the two effects that take substantial degrees of control from the player w/o preventing spam. 14:58:06 yeah 14:58:26 Can Aizul theoretically spam hibernation on you forever? 14:58:49 <|amethyst> I think polymorph is fine, since generally you can run away, with the exception of maybe one form 14:59:06 <|amethyst> and that form gets melee bonuses 14:59:10 |amethyst: two forms, right? It can give you treeform. But yeah, generally poly is fine imo. 14:59:17 <|amethyst> what else other than tree? 14:59:21 fungus 14:59:24 <|amethyst> ah 14:59:26 -!- koboldina has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:59:33 <|amethyst> I don't think I've ever been fungusformed 14:59:35 and if you're unlucky, wisp form I guess? 14:59:52 It has a chance of continuing to blink you back after each move 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:06 but yeah, poly's not so bad 15:00:07 anyway i think if chain confusion is really a problem it can be dealt with fine by shortening durations and doesn't need something as significant as guaranteeing an escape 15:00:42 <|amethyst> re confuse, what about also making it slightly more controlled? 15:00:45 another option would be something like making your movement direction tend towards the direction you choose, rather than being fully random? i think *bands do that, or at least sil does 15:00:49 hi |amethyst 15:00:53 <|amethyst> heh 15:01:04 <|amethyst> I was thinking a 2/3 rather than 1/3 chance of keeping your direction 15:01:10 Something like that would help a lot, I t hink 15:01:24 <|amethyst> combined with MPA's already-implemented no-drowning 15:01:25 it would leave much more control w/ the player 15:01:27 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:33 <|amethyst> would still be annoying with summons 15:01:33 that gives you the ability to vaguely blunder away from stuff, or vaguely blunder into stuff to try and kill it 15:01:38 yeah 15:01:41 options! 15:01:45 <|amethyst> Another suggestion vaguely related to confusion 15:01:49 honestly that would help a lot imo 15:02:01 <|amethyst> would be to make demonic guardians vanish if they would go hostile 15:02:11 <|amethyst> so you can stumble around your DG "safely" 15:02:21 heh 15:02:24 that would be useful 15:02:24 <|amethyst> (still with a prompt, since you might not want to lose them) 15:02:32 that would do a lot to make DG less dangerous to the player. I don't know if that's good or not, since they're pretty strong. 15:02:40 but then so are a lot of DG muts 15:03:13 that seems reasonable along with the recent changes to make them avoid your beams/explosions/clouds 15:03:30 <|amethyst> I guess a more general option 15:03:37 <|amethyst> would be to allow swapping while confused 15:04:09 that'd be nice 15:04:14 oh i think i actually looked into that a while ago, iirc you already swap while confused if you're in a sanctuary 15:04:48 although possibly i removed it because even though you'd swap safely it actually still gave you a warning message 15:06:15 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:06 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:33 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:08:23 So it sound like the approach we're considering is something like 1) reduce duration from 4-6 to 2-4; 2) make odds of walking in the right direction 2/3 instead of 1/3, and 3) make confusion stumbles a little less bad w/ summons or at least DG. 15:09:15 <|amethyst> oh 15:10:15 <|amethyst> I guess technically it's 1/3 + 2/3*(1/9) = 11/27 of walking in the right direction 15:10:31 <|amethyst> I kind of like marvinpa's suggestion though 15:11:00 <|amethyst> something like, fuzz around the destination square rather than picking a direction at random 15:11:22 <|amethyst> probably wouldn't want to do both that and 2/3 chance of no fuzz 15:11:31 <|amethyst> but maybe that and 1/2 chance, or maybe it's fine with 1/3 15:11:32 -!- jefus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:57 yeah, fuzz would be fun 15:12:27 It might be fun to allow you to take any action (except reading?) but add fuzz to direction/targeters 15:12:30 tho that'd take more work 15:12:37 it'd probably be ok with 1/3 15:12:43 <|amethyst> we had that at one point for some actions 15:12:51 if there's a much better chance of going in the general direction you want 15:13:00 <|amethyst> e.g. you could zap a wand or rod, but it would go in a random direction 15:13:14 that doesn't happen anymore? 15:13:21 <|amethyst> or you could case a spell, but you'd get ?randeff 15:13:25 <|amethyst> s/case/cast/ 15:14:03 <|amethyst> oh 15:14:07 <|amethyst> still works with wands 15:14:29 <|amethyst> I guess it was just rods that were changed 15:14:30 <|amethyst> and spells 15:14:36 Rods and not wands? weird. 15:14:49 A bunch of other evokers can still be evoked 15:14:54 Fan of gales for example 15:15:51 <|amethyst> %git 6178f766 15:15:52 07kilobyte02 * 0.11-a0-70-g6178f76: Disallow casting, reading, using rods while confused. 10(4 years ago, 3 files, 31+ 25-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6178f7666a6f 15:15:59 <|amethyst> oh 15:16:25 <|amethyst> I was mistaken 15:16:33 <|amethyst> rods worked like spells 15:16:37 <|amethyst> and before that 15:16:41 <|amethyst> %git 5945b6c 15:16:41 07|amethyst02 * 0.10-a0-2565-g5945b6c: Fail at casting spells from rods while confused. 10(4 years, 2 months ago, 1 file, 5+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5945b6c3414c 15:17:00 <|amethyst> before that you could zap rods with perfect targetting while confused 15:17:12 <|amethyst> %bug 5007 15:17:12 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5007 15:17:24 https://github.com/MarvinPA/mpa-sil/blob/sil-1.3.0/src/xtra2.c#L4855 sil's implementation is kinda neat 15:17:52 haha 15:17:54 pretty forgiving in terms of aiming you towards your target, dunno what good numbers would be for crawl 15:18:09 that's your branch of Sil? 15:18:23 yeah 15:18:31 neat 15:18:50 ah, I like that solution 15:18:54 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:55 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: hm, I was thinking flat, say 33% 33% 33% for the target and the two adjacent squares around the circle 15:19:08 that'd be fine too 15:19:21 <|amethyst> but something closer to normal would be good if the chance of getting an unconfused move were still low 15:19:29 yeah 15:19:29 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:32 <|amethyst> s/normal/a normal distribution/ 15:20:32 <|amethyst> "move near" warnings would need to be smarter 15:21:02 <|amethyst> e.g. if there's no chance of moving in the complete opposite direction, and that's the only place that has an ally, you don't need the warning 15:21:27 <|amethyst> s/would need to be/should in that case be/ 15:22:58 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: btw, "xtra2.c" is a nice filename in the fine tradition of roguelike source code 15:23:10 yes, angband source is excellent for that 15:23:19 see also cmd1.c through cmd6.c 15:24:27 <|amethyst> !send Sil it_use3.cc 15:24:27 Sending it_use3.cc to Sil. 15:24:43 <|amethyst> btw, what did "acr.cc" stand for? 15:25:33 hmm i'm sure that came up recently, i feel like grunt had the answer maybe? 15:25:55 <|amethyst> also, I wonder just how much of acr.cc is still in main.cc 15:25:59 "acrostic" no doubt 15:26:06 for making the poems for which Sil is so famous 15:26:08 <|amethyst> Automated Cash Register 15:26:26 <|amethyst> Assorted Crawl Routines 15:26:48 Amazing Crap Repository 15:27:13 acrimony.cc 15:27:55 <|amethyst> those were the routines necessary to get it to run on Linley's Acer laptop 15:27:56 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:28:37 <|amethyst> (not sure if Acer made laptops in 1997, but they did make computers) 15:29:04 And also libraries for roguelikes 15:29:50 -!- PsyMar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:11 across, acrid 15:33:35 ApoCRyphal 15:33:48 it was future-proofed 15:33:53 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:33:56 -!- maldini has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:34:49 .oO { acrasiac } 15:35:01 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 15:35:55 heh 15:36:11 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:36:26 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 15:37:26 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:59 -!- inire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:39:06 -!- sorlin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:36 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:15 apologies for length wrt the crd email I just sent out 15:44:35 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:42 ugh, just noticed I forgot a closing ' 15:44:45 that's going to bother me all day... 15:44:54 !banish ConfusedFungus 15:44:55 Lasty_ casts a spell. ConfusedFungus is cast into the Abyss! 15:45:05 -!- ConfusedFungus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:48:13 rip :( 15:58:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:10 FR: give item to orcish follower should probably override whatever the ally's usual preferences are 16:08:22 perhaps with a confirmation to avoid typos or such 16:08:36 atm what happens is that the orcs looks at the item, decides that it's worthless, and throws it away 16:08:41 and it still uses up the one gift limit 16:10:46 (assuming they think it's inferior, that is) 16:12:31 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:12:45 -!- PsyMar2 is now known as PsyMar 16:16:40 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:05 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 16:35:44 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:55 -!- Torax_ has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 16:42:55 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:42 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 16:44:56 -!- noppa354_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:46:12 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:57:10 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:55 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:20 <|amethyst> with weapons that would be pretty straightforward, just another case in _is_signature_weapon 17:06:32 <|amethyst> with armour shield it might be a little more work 17:08:24 -!- debo__ is now known as debo 17:09:51 <|amethyst> FIQ: could you open a bug report about that? arguably it's a feature request, but at the very least I think it's a bug that the monster drops the item pretty much immediately 17:10:05 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 17:17:25 -!- sorlin1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:02 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:24:32 -!- sorlin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:24:55 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:25:20 -!- maldini has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:27:40 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:47 FIQ: this is why you make sure to give them awesome stuff anyway XD 17:33:30 -!- muravey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:53 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:45 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 17:51:08 -!- jefus has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:41 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:55 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:55:42 -!- jefus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:02 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.18-a0-1206-g2bec475 (34) 18:01:51 -!- Nyvrem has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:03:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:50 -!- Weretaco has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08:28 -!- njorth_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:20 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:19:01 <|amethyst> !learn set millimarvin[1] 13.741 net lines of code removed (as of 2016-02-01) 18:19:01 millimarvin[1/1]: 13.741 net lines of code removed (as of 2016-02-01) 18:26:06 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:34 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 18:40:57 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:44:42 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:16 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48:12 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:48:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:55:03 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:05 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:58:20 < gressup> z - a scroll labeled USKARA BUFF 18:58:24 Lasty_: time to rename U 18:58:52 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 18:59:04 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:59:18 ! 19:00:01 kvaak: gimme a better name 19:00:02 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:10 < kvaak> < gressup> z - a scroll labeled USKARA BUFF 19:01:00 the awbw guys want U for Udzu 19:01:29 what's an Udzu 19:06:07 aka griggy aka thorn god 19:06:27 which will be completed once one of the people working on it figures out how tendrils work 19:11:18 ?/ hipuw 19:11:19 No matches. 19:11:24 ?/ hiuw 19:11:24 Matching entries (1): missing_gods[1]: HIUW 19:11:41 hsayaw? 19:12:54 u seems like the best letter left 19:13:05 i guess I has potential 19:14:02 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:14:10 you should totally call it Uskara 19:14:32 uskara me, bruh? 19:17:16 <|amethyst> uskara, god of eye makeup 19:21:30 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:32 i like that the dance god is not african tribal dance themed 19:22:29 hm 19:22:40 what open god proposals do we have right now anyway 19:22:49 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:22:51 there's PF's Hepliaklqana (and I refuse to accept any other name there) 19:22:54 <.< 19:23:03 theoretically a Wulndraste revival 19:26:59 how many letters are left 19:27:38 there could be numbers 19:27:54 if you wanted to add a god that is like a team of 2 or 3 gods 19:27:55 ...and now all I can think of is the confused castaway who tracked HEPL in the sand... 19:28:31 The Second: the god that came after the first 19:28:55 you gain power through pasive aggressively reminding people that the original creator isn't very good, and you would have done a better job of it all 19:30:13 chequers: just think of all the racial caracatures this god isn't! 19:30:37 DrKe: We have TSO already 19:30:58 Lasty: I'm imagining he's a hobbled over old man who used to be the star of the russian ballet academy 19:30:59 TSO is just 1 19:31:04 yeah, TSO is 1 19:31:05 you could add 2, 3, etc 19:31:23 so that would leave 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, and then whatever letters haven't been taken yet 19:31:39 2 or 3 could be like a stance god 19:31:39 until we have 81 gods! 19:31:58 where you switch 19:32:10 between like defense, offense, or w/e 19:32:18 There was a skeleton of a proposal that would switch bonuses based on your last action 19:32:19 or melee/magic/regen 19:32:22 I thought it was kinda neat 19:35:20 so, someone's already working on an H god, a U god, and a W god. I guess that only leaves I . . . 19:35:28 I could probably come up with a decent I name 19:35:34 Igni Ipthes 19:35:36 how about 19:35:37 * Grunt hides 19:35:38 Iashol 19:35:47 sold! 19:39:05 inougmu 19:39:23 iqoobka 19:39:38 it has to start with ika- 19:39:41 so you can have oka, uka, and ika 19:39:44 true 19:40:00 imotjeko 19:42:13 ixisbiga 19:42:16 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:34 imokha 19:43:11 no takers, huh? 19:45:06 iwojkosa 19:47:34 with ash, does getting to 'fully bound' mean you get the full bonus? 19:47:54 it goes by category 19:47:58 cos you can get to fully bound with only two jewelry slots cursed, i'm wondering if cursing the third wouldb oost magic 19:48:06 yes 19:48:10 you get a biigger boost 19:48:15 right, thanks 19:49:26 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:00 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:15 ??griggy 19:54:18 ??thorn god 19:54:23 ??rip sequell 19:55:26 Lasty: my current thought on wands was (1) removing fire and cold for being too similar to other attack wands was reasonable but (2) removing them for power reasons was probably the wrong play; so I'm up for your proposal to replace drain & fball with new power wands 19:55:47 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:56 well, one would be a power wand, one would be about on par 19:55:56 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:55:58 Power Wand: Kill 19:56:04 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:17 Faster Power Wand: Kill Kill 19:56:26 only usable by felids 19:56:32 heh 19:56:38 thinking, for the cold wand: possibly something with imb targeting? and either flash freeze or beam_ice 19:56:59 guaranteed imb explosions, that is. would be different 19:57:06 I'd be fine with that, or w/ shotfun 19:57:10 shotfun? 19:57:14 freudian slip 19:57:17 haha 19:57:28 but what would the name be... 19:57:32 for any of those options, really 19:57:34 Icezooka 19:57:47 -!- octolad has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:58:02 -!- WorkSight has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:58:04 wand of freezing burst? 19:58:26 or blast 19:59:11 wand of frostblast, wand of frigidity, wand of something short and connoting cold plus optionally explosions 19:59:19 i would consider frigid 19:59:21 as an adjective 19:59:23 wand of the north wind 19:59:29 too long!!! 19:59:31 too flowery 19:59:39 wand of fist of the north star 19:59:42 better 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:28 !source calcdice_calculator 20:00:29 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/beam.cc#l385 20:00:32 hell of a name 20:00:49 so that's... hm 20:01:03 @??goblin spells:corrosive_bolt.200.wizard 20:01:03 goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-5 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | XP: 1 | Sp: b.corrosive (3d9) | Sz: small | Int: human. 20:01:06 ugh 20:01:24 wand of you are already dead 20:01:25 yeah, monsters are completely different, of course 20:01:25 seems like a great new monster 20:01:41 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:45 @??goblin spells:bolt_of_fire.200.wizard 20:01:45 goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-5 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | XP: 1 | Sp: b.fire (3d9) | Sz: small | Int: human. 20:01:49 I guess ZAP_CORROSIVE_BOLT is currently just in rod of destruction? 20:02:50 well, if that's the case 20:02:59 then you could modify the damage roll to balance it more 20:03:06 sure 20:03:09 since acid is a superior damage type 20:03:12 I'm trying to figure out why it's what it currently is 20:03:28 (1d(11 + pow*0.6)) 20:03:42 I'd be fine with leaving it more powerful and making the wand more rare and have fewer charges 20:03:56 i feel like that's a less elegant solution, tho 20:04:02 (bolt of cold/fire is 6d(3 + pow/9) 20:04:03 because you are left with a wand in its own rarity tier 20:04:10 like heal wounds! 20:04:20 yo mean tele 20:04:22 DrKe: yeah, I think that's fine 20:04:23 anyway, it currently does significantly less damage 20:04:30 and is much more random 20:04:38 DrKe: I think it might be neat to have a desireable wand that is a damage wand 20:04:38 I must have copied that 1d thing from somewhere... 20:04:47 would it be tele rarity tier then 20:04:48 ah ha 20:04:54 it's exactly the same as lbolt 20:05:02 cunning me! 20:05:21 Awright, seriously folks: what're we gonna name Ukayaw? 20:05:29 imho 20:05:36 you implemented your god and those other folks didn't 20:05:39 so tell them to go suck eggs 20:05:42 yes 20:05:46 i think just name it Ukayaw 20:05:48 PleasingFungus: well, there's still the issue of Uka/Oka 20:05:52 ahh 20:05:54 reasonable 20:06:01 otherwise I'd tell everyone to fuck off 20:06:02 was that really an issue 20:06:09 Uskara 20:06:09 it seems suboptimal 20:06:12 or possibly Uskarabuf 20:06:12 uskara sounds familiar, somehow 20:06:12 <.< 20:06:19 possibly I'm crazy 20:06:23 it is a word, though 20:06:27 !send insanity PleasingFungus 20:06:27 Sending PleasingFungus to insanity. 20:06:38 %git :/Zannick 20:06:38 07Shmuale Mark02 * 0.16-a0-3839-gfc5615a: Fix a wizmode crash (Zannick). 10(1 year ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc5615a71908 20:06:39 in... basque 20:06:52 uh 20:06:57 in an extinct dialect of basque 20:07:01 so I guess that's probably fine 20:08:05 !send Hepliaklqana PleasingFungus 20:08:05 Sending PleasingFungus to Hepliaklqana. 20:08:11 i've been slacking... 20:08:20 playing jonathan blow's masterpiece, "the shitness" ha ha ha ha 20:08:28 har har har 20:08:30 get it? witness rhymes with... 20:08:35 get it. 20:08:43 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:06 I don't get it. 20:09:10 Good. 20:09:12 inougmu, iqoobka, imotjeko, ixisbiga, imokha, iwojkosa are the standing suggestions. 20:09:24 Just in case anyone wants to vote for one or offer something better 20:09:27 I, Mocha 20:09:41 Iwojima 20:09:43 imocha would be good actually 20:09:46 imo? 20:10:13 PleasingFungus: so do you like or not like the witness? 20:10:15 that has a good cadence to it 20:10:18 chequers: it's fantastic 20:10:30 i figure crawl devs would 20:10:31 i'm just an idiot child at heart 20:10:33 haha 20:10:34 why? 20:10:38 http://www.northjersey.com/news/oven-blaze-ignites-fire-at-imocha-thai-cuisine-restaurant-in-woodland-park-1.1410915 bad news for inew god 20:10:47 okay, two votes for imokha 20:10:55 haha 20:11:07 tbh i like that spelling of it better 20:11:09 with the c 20:11:17 it's hardcore puzzling, no story, like a point and click adventure game you remember from childhood but without the B grade story that would ruin it 20:11:19 but either way 20:11:23 it's better than the others 20:11:35 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:11:39 and I feel the sort of programmers who hack on an oldschool C++ roguelike in their spare time are that exact target audience 20:11:41 the witness is excellent 20:11:48 hm 20:11:51 worrying for sales, if so 20:12:17 personally, I asked for a refund after 0.9hrs played 20:12:21 owned 20:12:28 so far, it's my goty. 20:12:31 how do i /kick chequers 20:12:40 grunt...? 20:12:42 technically, it was my got0.9h 20:13:07 I bought it yesterday and put in a workday on it, per steam 20:13:17 I intend to pick it up once it goes on sale 20:13:22 or someone gives me a copy :p 20:14:23 i'm rich off blood money and can buy as many games as I want. take that, mom! 20:14:53 blood money drips too much for me 20:14:53 what kind of blood money 20:14:55 oil money? 20:15:45 /kick PleasingFungus 20:15:46 oops 20:15:48 <.< 20:15:55 rip... 20:16:02 shared this with a friend: wat? it is SO GOOD chequers is dum 20:16:04 DrKe: I wish I could find the piture 20:16:15 *picture 20:16:24 anyway, we all have our own personal taste. 20:16:25 and I appreciate that chequers' taste is wrong, bad, and dumb. 20:16:59 the art style is a little bit too bright for me, but i do otherwise love the art, theme, etc 20:18:21 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1207-g5bab8e1: Reduce player corrosive bolt randomness 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5bab8e122b70 20:30:02 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:30:07 looks cool 20:30:15 I never really got far in Myst, but I do like the concept 20:30:26 i'm not sure it's that much like myst 20:30:32 gammafunk: ditto 20:30:51 PleasingFungus: "Inspired by Myst, The Witness has the player explore an open world island filled with a number of natural and man-made structures." 20:30:53 tho I recall in Myst being really frustrated by the lack of different views you could take 20:30:59 if you've played the talos principle, that feels closer 20:31:05 hey, i don't write the game descriptions. 20:31:12 it was directly inspired by it, so 20:31:20 that's what they all say. 20:31:20 not saying it's a clone or anything 20:31:49 -!- mizu_no__ has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:31:59 it's a lot better than myst 20:32:01 DCSS wasn't inspired by other roguelikes either 20:32:06 myst didn't try to tutorialize you very much at all 20:32:07 i'm trying to decide if imb targeting is too 'fiddly' for a wand 20:32:12 After all, it's not much like them! 20:32:13 and if just making it frostball would be better 20:32:25 but certainly it reminds me of myst at times 20:32:28 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 20:32:44 i heard one of the witness devs was also a myst dev, but i haven't fact checked that 20:32:58 yeah, I'd sort of favor a simpler targeter for wands 20:33:03 mm 20:33:04 okay 20:33:10 oh, you mean imb-style blasts? 20:33:18 guaranteed imb explosions 20:33:22 imb-style, rather 20:33:24 not the damage type 20:33:30 hrm, not really sure it's a good fit tbh 20:33:35 it was something that someone suggested to me recently in some context 20:33:46 this is wrt replacing /fireball with /somethingcold 20:33:48 yes 20:34:16 I mean, I think 3x3 aoe is already distinctive enough from other wands 20:34:22 since no other wand does this 20:34:31 feels a little silly to recolor the wand 20:34:47 almost just swapping elements. but I guess that's what I'm doing with draining 20:34:49 so w/e 20:34:50 well, it doesn't much to me, personally 20:34:55 but I guess I can see that 20:35:05 silliness is within all of us (and all our wands) 20:35:19 (and all of the charges in our wands) 20:35:46 imb isn't super more complicated than a fireball at least 20:36:11 I guess one cool thing about this would be you can't hurt yourself with the aoe? 20:36:14 that's kind of neat, actually 20:36:37 and given the fact that /fball did less damage 20:36:42 might help the wand stay relevant 20:37:07 Lasty: Did you ever play this "crimson room" flash games? 20:37:19 You're locked in a room and have to find all the secrets to get out 20:37:24 i hate those 20:37:28 they were cool! 20:37:29 gammafunk: I don't think so 20:37:29 /nick Lasty 20:37:38 :p 20:37:58 gammafunk: I've enjoyed the grow cube puzzles 20:38:19 The crimson room one was solvable, the "green room" (forget exact title) that the guy made as a follow up was impossible without spoilers (to non-geniuses I guess) 20:38:31 grow cube, hm... 20:39:03 oh my god 20:39:12 Lasty, this is the strangest thing I've seen in my life 20:39:27 now I'm wondering if you found the thing I'm thinking of 20:39:45 grow games are classics 20:39:48 there was a whole series of them 20:39:55 yeah 20:40:20 i remember those, kinda 20:40:37 has anyone played... ... ... manufactoria ... < < 20:40:57 -!- eb_ has quit [] 20:41:07 I don't recall ever playing it 20:41:17 Never heard of it. 20:41:18 amalloy: weird game, made by a weirdo 20:41:21 Sounds like a game for babies. 20:41:41 I think |amethyst said he might show it to his students 20:42:02 Weirdos Confirmed 20:42:35 i'm implementing as a fireball-knockoff for now, since that's much easier to do 20:42:41 someone can change it to imb later if it fits their fancy 20:42:42 Haha, the game update messages from the growcube developer are great 20:42:44 someone could even be me? 20:42:49 I gave priority to the easy operation, even I miss the dragging feeling. 20:42:50 Please get used to it. 20:43:29 ! 20:43:40 Mea culpa messages are underutilized in our commit messages, I feel 20:44:01 I've never made a mistake in my life. 20:44:16 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:44:22 ugh, removing fireball is going to break so many vaults... vaults.....! 20:44:28 they are the bane of my life. 20:44:38 Vaults that have /fireball? 20:44:45 I actually can't think of any 20:44:46 !commitby PleasingFungus Remove all vaults 20:44:47 03PleasingFungus * 0.18-a0-1541-g217c698: Remove all vaults 10(in the future, 35 files, 686+ 470-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/commit.png?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=217c698 20:45:05 I replaced /fire with /fireball in a bunch of places 20:45:08 that required fire-themed wands 20:45:28 it's currently in 13 vaults 20:45:44 not sure how many of those want it for fire related reasons 20:46:35 Doing a solo w/ pain bond and immolation is a lot of fun. Heads up. 20:46:48 Well if you want to give vault changes to someone else, I can do those 20:47:04 but they're probably reasonably straightforward 20:47:05 we'll see how it goes 20:48:02 man, hm 20:48:35 I fucked up my wand math 20:48:48 %git wandtrimming 20:48:48 Could not find commit wandtrimming (git returned 128) 20:49:00 %git 6f661db7440e4ae78df8f093bdbdf8b46d2d12eb 20:49:00 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.18-a0-1194-g6f661db: Remove various wands 10(5 days ago, 35 files, 137+ 212-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f661db7440e 20:49:00 I have no idea what that would be like, because I never fuck up my math 20:49:08 ! 20:49:24 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:49:45 !calc 14*5+3*4+2 20:49:46 84 20:49:53 ah, but at least I was consistent! 20:50:04 hm 20:50:18 ahh, I miscounted wands...? 20:50:37 yeah, somehow 20:50:45 %git 64ccc1e5733bd42503511499a1fa1d07ef9e668e 20:50:46 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e: Simplify _random_wand_subtype() 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 29+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/64ccc1e5733b 20:50:57 ah ha 20:51:06 I accidentally tripled the frequency of /invis 20:51:09 before removing it 20:51:31 oh 20:51:32 or 20:51:36 what the fuck was going on with that old code 20:52:09 03Lasty02 07[combo_god] * 0.18-a0-1078-g0c81253: Rebalance Ukayaw's two passive triggers 10(16 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0c812533cdfe 20:52:15 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:11 enh 20:53:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:54 gammafunk: opinion on making iceblast have a half-volume explosion? it'd require a special case in beam.cc 20:54:00 but it might be a reasonable differentiator 20:55:12 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:56 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:58:24 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:12 -!- cmcbot has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:41 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:42 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:43 Experimental (combo_god) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1078-g0c81253 21:07:31 03Lasty02 07[combo_god] * 0.18-a0-1250-g928b01e: Merge branch 'master' into combo_god 10(21 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/928b01ec20b8 21:15:57 PleasingFungus: oh, as in it'd make less noise than fireball? 21:16:15 no, it just makes a colder noise 21:16:15 yeah 21:16:18 to both 21:16:46 That sounds nice 21:17:25 oh PF 21:17:28 I was playing a DsWz^Q 21:17:50 and I have to say, Cig's Hug is pretty good in that scenario 21:17:58 ahh - grab up armour from one wave of foes while the rest are still coming? 21:18:12 yes, and playing Q means allies are less useful 21:18:15 especially zombies 21:18:16 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:18 More like Cig's Hugbox... 21:21:13 Experimental (combo_god) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1250-g928b01e 21:28:18 PleasingFungus: the sixth-form sophistry of The Witness has nothing on the visceral explosion of call of duty black ops three 21:30:15 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:31:12 hm 21:31:15 does a zap have no origin spell...? 21:32:31 how did fireball ever work? 21:36:41 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:01 ah ha 21:37:03 ! 21:37:05 crawl: forall . how did ever work? 21:43:06 MAGIC! 21:43:12 New branch created: newwand (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/newwand 21:43:12 03PleasingFungus02 07[newwand] * 0.18-a0-1208-gfc72cda: Implement Iceblast 10(59 minutes ago, 5 files, 38+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc72cda808a0 21:43:12 03PleasingFungus02 07[newwand] * 0.18-a0-1209-g77aac2f: Wands: draining -> acid, fireball -> iceblast 10(10 minutes ago, 32 files, 91+ 84-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77aac2f2795b 21:43:16 I'd forgotten spl-zap.cc 21:43:30 aw, why draining to acid? 21:43:32 pinging lasty and anyone else interested to review before I push 21:43:53 chequers: did you read the commit message 21:44:11 yes, it's a buff and minmay is very disappointed in you 21:48:23 haha 21:48:41 on the other hand, it's pro-melee 21:48:48 opposite of anti-melee 21:49:25 PleasingFungus: thanks for doing that 21:49:36 sure 21:49:44 looking it over 21:49:47 feel free to do any wand buffing & rebalancing as you feel appropriate 21:49:54 as the commit message notes, /acid is not a super wand yet 21:50:06 ...though 21:50:15 by virtue of being 'stronger draining', it's already stronger than the other two wands 21:50:24 why half as loud? theme? 21:50:38 and to be more distinct from fireball 21:50:44 my two reasons 21:52:21 huh, paralysis is considered high tier? 21:53:01 looks fine to me 21:54:29 here is the one thing that function does: 21:54:48 prevents wands of the relevant type from spawning with extremely low item_level (so on, like, d:1, I think?) 21:55:10 -!- chance672 has quit [Quit: Leaving my desktop..... laptop possibly?] 21:55:15 it's a very very weird function. 21:55:39 anyway, presumably a goblin with /para on d:1 was considered too mean 21:55:41 which seems fair 21:55:48 i suppose that's true 21:56:03 just wait til they get a goblin w/ a wand of acid!! 21:56:16 sorry, I ruined it 21:56:20 canonically it was a kobold with /para >.> 21:56:23 lol, wand of removedness is on autopickup 21:56:27 hm 21:58:41 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:01 @?? rat name:austral n_adj spells:iceblast.200.natural 21:59:01 Unknown spell name: 'iceblast' in 'iceblast.200.natural' 21:59:20 03PleasingFungus02 07[newwand] * 0.18-a0-1210-g361546b9: Add /confusion to is_high_tier_wand 10(57 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/361546b946b7 21:59:24 heh 22:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:31 why confusion? Should enslavement be in there? is it already? 22:00:41 it is not, and I forgot that it existed 22:01:19 that confuses players, right? 22:01:31 "Your will is oerpowered!" yep 22:01:54 fairly recent change, before that it wasn't usable by monsters at all 22:01:56 -!- kreedzfreak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:02:42 03PleasingFungus02 07[newwand] * 0.18-a0-1211-g2796b5b: Also /enslave (rebaseme) 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2796b5b9d2c0 22:02:53 yeah, it does 22:02:59 !rebase PleasingFungus 22:02:59 geekosaur rebases PleasingFungus. PleasingFungus is banished to the reflog! 22:03:04 heh, rebaseme looks like someone I'm crediting 22:04:26 * geekosaur tags stuff like that with "n.b." (or more likely "nb.", bad habit picked up from J) 22:08:24 jivya...? 22:09:31 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:11:12 -!- arianwen has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:36 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0/20160123151951]] 22:16:05 -!- Hiffwe has quit [Quit: CATS CATS CATS] 22:19:44 -!- sorlin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:26:26 -!- WalrusKing has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:59 -!- inre has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:38 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:06 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:37:18 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:37:19 The build passed. (newwand - 77aac2f #4617 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/106378879 22:37:19 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:39:23 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:32 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:06 Oh, he give iceblast partial physical as well as reduced noise 22:43:31 I guess that might be fine really 22:43:53 for /acid, I worry that the monster debuf is maybe too strong 22:44:43 if it still makes monsters have half ac, it's going to be pretty easy drastically reduce monster ac with it 22:44:58 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:34 gammafunk: what do you think monster corr should do? 22:45:48 I think it should probably remain a one-level effect 22:45:52 hrm 22:46:31 i would give the ice wand a better damage roll, if its replacing fireball 22:46:33 if it were that, this would be fine, but ...would something like a more modest absolute dam+ac reduction be ok? 22:46:37 unless "unnerf damage wands" is not one of the goals 22:46:40 I guess you can cheese with it if it stacks 22:46:56 DrKe: it's sort of a goal, ish. it's already better than /fireball 22:47:05 but I could buff damage a little? 22:47:11 because of the phys. dmg? 22:47:20 i don't think fireball is disliked because of the damage type, but just because of the bad scaling 22:47:23 gammafunk: it's more that I'm worried about trying to balance around multiple stacks when they might not come up that often 22:47:25 because it's based on a player spell 22:47:29 ice blast won't have that problem 22:47:34 DrKe: the phys dmg & the half noise 22:47:38 it's a stealth explosion! 22:48:02 teh noise does suck, but mostly i think people hate the bad damage 22:48:09 i guess you can compromsie and put it up to wand of draining levels 22:48:09 PleasingFungus: I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but my concern was zapping low-damage /acid vs iron giants, oof, antaeus, etc just to make them have no ac 22:48:12 as opposed to wand of fire levels 22:48:24 you might be right that the most effective balance is a single-level status 22:48:33 gammafunk: how's a flat -10 AC sound? I was thinking -8 but -10 has the advantage of being an exact # of pips 22:48:40 which makes it easy to see on xv 22:48:49 hrm 22:48:52 alternately, -5 and some -slay 22:48:52 @??orc_warrior 22:48:52 orc warrior (08o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 25-33 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 132 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 22:49:03 well, hrm 22:49:07 note that's a naked warrior, probably 22:49:13 yeah, true 22:49:14 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 22:49:42 no, it's an armored warrior 22:49:43 ??chain mail 22:49:45 gretell does that now 22:49:48 dang 22:49:50 does the new ice wand have an AOE on it? 22:49:50 averages out the ac 22:49:54 from various orc warriors 22:50:02 ah, you're right. base ac is 0 22:50:10 johnstein: yes, it's fireball 22:50:11 but ice 22:50:12 that was one interesting think about /fireball since it gave an AOE option for non-casters 22:50:13 ah ok 22:50:14 cool 22:50:21 neato burrito 22:50:24 I mean, beams are also aoe... 22:50:26 just sayin... 22:50:29 oh 22:50:29 hm 22:50:32 good point 22:50:51 heh, malmut gives -8 22:50:59 I guess I think like myself when it comes to ac penalties 22:51:01 -!- Misder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:51:29 does malmut stack? 22:51:36 for monsters, I mean 22:51:44 no 22:51:48 it did but it doesn't 22:52:13 well, I think a much more subtle decrease of like 2 ac/ 2dam per application would be pretty good and fairly hard to exploit but 22:52:16 maybe I'm insnane 22:52:21 *insane 22:52:21 you are. 22:52:40 I know but this time its for all the marbles 22:52:41 q: should the player be keeping track of how many times a monster has been corroded? 22:52:55 fair question, but also applies to drain etc 22:53:03 I guess one thing is monster ac can been seen in xv? 22:53:05 drain actually does display "heavily drained" for monsters that have high drain 22:53:09 so at least it is tracked 22:53:40 yeah, I assume some system like this could apply for monsters as well "heavily corroded" 22:53:42 ssort of 22:53:47 you can only see when it crosses a pip threshold 22:53:57 oh, how much is a pip? 22:53:59 5 22:54:02 right 22:54:12 hm 22:54:19 there's the problem of acid halving monster ac 22:54:33 which can be addressed simply by turning it into a flat penalty 22:54:40 and then there's the broader question of whether it'd be better as a stacking penalty 22:54:46 yeah 22:54:46 which probably doesn't have to be handled right this second? 22:54:48 -!- Ystah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:54:52 correct 22:55:00 bingo you win 22:55:03 we all win 22:55:15 \o/ 22:55:27 I don't feel strongly about acid stacking, tbh; it's probably closer to draining than malmut in the frequency with which monsters will be hit by it 22:55:32 so it's more practical to balance around multiple hits 22:55:40 also remember that fedhas exists. 22:55:57 right, god no wonder why oklobs murder things 22:55:58 * Grunt tries to think of a better name for "iceblast" 22:56:04 * PleasingFungus blasts Grunt! 22:56:08 * Grunt seems unharmed. 22:56:12 !glaciate PleasingFungus 22:56:12 Grunt casts a spell at PleasingFungus. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs PleasingFungus! 22:56:19 speaking of iceblasts. 22:56:21 <.< 22:56:32 speaking of singularities. 22:56:41 !singularity gammafunk 22:56:42 Grunt mumbles some strange words. Space collapses on itself with a satisfying crunch. The singularity violently warps gammafunk! 22:56:48 rip 22:56:57 how about 22:56:59 shard strike 22:57:00 <.< 22:57:05 (don't actually call it that) 22:57:11 shardstrike 22:57:12 oh, then caustic strike for the /acid wand 22:57:13 one word! 22:57:20 gammafunk: perfect 22:57:24 03PleasingFungus02 07[newwand] * 0.18-a0-1212-g96a5b74: Change monster corrosion to a flat penalty 10(76 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/96a5b74cb419 22:57:50 I went with -8 because -10 seemed excessive, also to match malmut 22:58:37 8 is a more balanced number since it's a power of a prime, hence correct 22:59:53 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:35 i'm gonna push it. 23:00:51 oh, wait, right, maybe buff iceblast. 23:00:58 and rename it 23:00:59 <.< 23:01:08 does anyone who is actually a dev have opinions on iceblast damage 23:01:25 did it change at all from fireball damage? 23:01:27 n 23:01:31 then leave it alone 23:01:39 it's inherently more powerful by dealing ice damage 23:01:43 (partially irresistible) 23:01:46 true 23:01:47 and quieter 23:01:55 (which I expect marvinpa will probably revert once he wakes up) 23:03:15 i won't PUSH the issue 23:05:28 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1208-gfc72cda: Implement Iceblast 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 38+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fc72cda808a0 23:05:28 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1209-g77aac2f: Wands: draining -> acid, fireball -> iceblast 10(2 hours ago, 32 files, 91+ 84-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/77aac2f2795b 23:05:28 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1210-g32616f2: Prevent /confuse & /enslave from spawning v. early 10(67 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/32616f214aa7 23:05:28 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.18-a0-1211-g828307d: Change monster corrosion to a flat penalty 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/828307da2ca6 23:05:32 Grunt: for the record, I have zero attachment to iceblast 23:05:42 and also typed it as 'frostblast' at least once while coding this 23:05:59 while devs are around: y/n on chopping regeneration 23:06:11 per the huge email I sent out, which I'm sure everyone read & studied in detai; 23:06:45 bad alternate name: 23:06:48 snowball 23:06:50 * Grunt hides. 23:08:30 regen? 23:08:34 ??book_of_battle 23:08:40 WHAT 23:08:47 hm, book of battle does look a little thin without it 23:09:00 it's in a few necro books 23:09:06 well, it's in at least one 23:09:08 my issue with regen is (a) buff spell that has no reason not to leave it on all the time (b) out-of-combat spell 23:09:09 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:10 The build failed. (newwand - 361546b #4618 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/106380773 23:09:10 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 23:09:16 you blew it up 23:09:17 you maniac 23:09:18 fuck you, travis!!! 23:09:21 no offense 23:09:24 i'm sorry. I didn't mean it. 23:09:25 ??travis[2 23:09:29 rip 23:09:33 ya rip 23:09:43 PleasingFungus: well by (b) you're not implying it's only that, I assume 23:09:50 it's certainly a good in-combat spell 23:09:57 I agree you want to cast before resting 23:09:58 oh, PF 23:10:02 what did you do with those ice cave wands 23:10:10 iceblast would be a good wand to drop in there 23:10:10 hm 23:10:14 I think I put it in 23:10:39 yeah, looks like it? 23:10:39 Grunt: boomsickle 23:10:39 (also when am I going to code up Shrike Strike) 23:10:50 (I think I decided I would do that if/when we added a third shrike) 23:10:52 like boom stick but more like boom icicle 23:10:52 <.< 23:12:12 this affects both Sk and Ne starts, regen spell removal 23:12:20 ne will be fine 23:12:28 I had considered them 23:13:12 well they'll both be fine, just pointing that out 23:13:15 this is where sequel would be really useful if you could ask it "how many Ne starts used regen heavily in xl1-10 and did it affect winrate" 23:13:38 that doesn't seem like something you could really say meaningfully even if sequell tracked action counts. 23:13:41 it'd be nice but regen isn't super hard to reason about wrt affect on winrate 23:13:46 -!- molotove has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:50 like, maybe they weren't casting regen as much because they weren't taking as much damage? 23:14:40 like the tale of the ww2 bombers and the bullet holes 23:15:11 100rr is like 10 more hp over the course of 10 turns of fighting 23:15:56 less if you have a dagger. 23:16:08 but, more if you have a scythe. 23:16:37 that averages out since those things do more or less damage anyhow 23:16:55 depending on them being dagger fast or scythe slow 23:16:55 that was a joke 23:17:07 hrm 23:17:08 dagger fast or scyth slow 23:17:09 thinking about regeneration 23:17:23 i think regen is a good charm outside of the out of combat application, and the out of combat application isnt really relevant beyond turncount or other minor things like monsters respawning 23:18:10 i mean sth like staff of energy could be viewed as bad in the same way 23:18:13 it's a charm, like ozo's, that a hypothetical optimal player (HAM) would probably want to have on all the time 23:19:48 and spells are troublesome when cast out of combat, because fail chance stops really mattering. of course, for something that's just regeneration, the loss of mp from failing casts is an okay cost, maybe? 23:20:16 idk, I'll drop it for now. tbh I'd remembered the regen it gave as being less significant - closer to the equipment pip value. 23:20:22 if you are constantly failing it's definitely not worth it to a HAM 23:20:33 thinking more about 50% fail or w/e 23:21:04 yeah, it gives 100rr so it's pretty significant effect, even in combat 23:21:14 but I agree you want to cast it a lot 23:23:44 yeah, 50% fail i don't see the appeal to a ham either 23:24:01 for me ham would just want to have full hp at all times 23:24:05 DrKe do you even really like ham? 23:24:16 prefer turkey 23:24:20 word 23:24:37 maybe the way that the duration stacks is an issue vis a vis ham play 23:25:03 DrKe: Did you read the posts on CRD wrt charms overhaul? 23:25:13 That's what kind of started the idea of regen removal 23:25:22 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:32 I think the idea of removing access to ozo/phase is problematic 23:25:50 i mean i can see the wisdom of removing it for sure 23:26:00 because of badcharms 23:26:11 Those spells enable a number of the less common but still interesting builds you can do in crawl 23:26:14 but it always seems like one of the less bad of the badcharms 23:26:20 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:05 yeah, it's not as bad as ozo's, stoneskin, w/e 23:27:16 which ozo's do you mean? 23:27:20 guess 23:27:25 I don't think ozo's armour is bad 23:27:37 it's the exact same concept, and if that's bad phase shift is bad 23:27:43 they both are, yes 23:27:48 in fact ozo is better design than phase 23:27:56 because it melts? 23:28:03 no because it has restrictions on heavy armour 23:28:15 so it's not even as abusable 23:28:19 phase shift should only work in heavy armour :P 23:28:24 heh 23:28:49 rename it to Armour Relief 23:29:13 removes encumbrance and those pesky body armour odors in one convenient spell! 23:29:25 could regen be made to be like a post rework rmsl 23:29:38 draining MP when you need to regen HP 23:30:10 well, that's interesting but for a lot of melee-centric chars 23:30:15 more like searing ray perhaps 23:30:18 mp is a much less important resource than hp 23:30:23 so you'd still want to cast it a lot 23:30:24 -!- mizu_no__ has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:30:29 even out of combat before resting 23:30:38 since you'd have more hp sooner 23:30:51 I will bet that berder or logicninja would disagree 23:30:55 lol 23:31:12 I like the idea of it turning into a weird guardian spirit ish thing 23:31:17 That's a risk I'm willing to take 23:31:38 i just dislike the idea of necromancy/kiku losing this hp healing spell 23:31:38 -!- GauHelldragon2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:46 it's very cool thematically 23:31:51 it's a neat space for necromancy to have 23:32:08 Explore the space aggressively! 23:32:16 fr: Angry god of game design 23:32:22 !send Trog gammafunk 23:32:22 Sending gammafunk to Trog. 23:32:43 !send DCSS the fiery rage of PleasingFungus 23:32:44 Sending the fiery rage of PleasingFungus to DCSS. 23:32:52 oh 23:32:55 idea 23:32:58 what if it prevents mp regen 23:32:59 uh-oh 23:33:01 rather than costing mp 23:33:02 PleasingFungus has Ideas(tm) 23:33:08 I guess that's synergy with pak? 23:33:17 regen should make your attacks vampiric 23:33:20 how would it work, as a toggle? 23:33:21 except you're still spending mp to cast a spell under pak 23:33:36 still a duration, just increases hp regen & toggles off mp regen for the duration 23:33:37 You cast regen, and it's just up? Or it's still a duration 23:33:39 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:34:05 I guess you could make it stay up until you ran out of mp? 23:34:05 I mean, that's similar concept to what DrKe said 23:34:08 yes 23:34:21 But my point is that it doesn't really address the problem you had with it 23:34:23 but I was concerned about trying to find a reasonable mp cost 23:34:33 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:36 As in, I'm still going to want to cast this, then rest 23:34:50 not for all chars maybe, but for quite a few 23:34:57 I convinced myself that's less of an issue than I'd worried 23:35:05 but is it still a badcharm if you only have to cast it once 23:35:06 since the tradeoff you're making is in kind 23:35:08 regen vs regen 23:35:14 as opposed to spam casting 23:35:25 i mean outside of the rmsl definition of badcharm 23:35:29 of no drawback 23:35:42 i guess there would be no drawback for non MP using chars 23:36:00 anyone who's casting regen, and who is capable of casting regen, is automatically an mp using char 23:36:14 non-serious-mp-using chars 23:36:27 casual MP users 23:36:31 casuals 23:36:33 ! 23:36:33 C A S U A L 23:36:34 normies out 23:36:36 they only use on the weekend 23:36:47 ??sword_in_stone[3 23:36:52 dammit 23:36:54 rip 23:37:03 anyhow I guess I just want to understand how this mp cost improves regen 23:37:03 Sequell: wake up 23:37:15 not criticising it, but I'm not sure what it fixes about the spell 23:37:25 well would the duration become something else 23:37:38 I think PF has the idea that it's still a duration 23:37:48 perhaps unchanged? 23:37:54 duration-wise, I mean 23:38:19 I might buff the duration 23:38:48 longer duration + mp cost over time is an improvement in regards to the spell complaints 23:39:04 DrKe: because people have to cast it less frequently? 23:39:05 to reduce the spamminess of casting. of course, then what's the point of spellpower? and in a sense, isn't spam-casting already a sort of mp-drain - a channel for hp? 23:39:26 yeah but the issue here is regarding tedium i am assuming 23:39:31 <|amethyst> spellpower can increase the HP-for-MP rate? 23:39:33 otherwise everyone would be a HAM style player 23:39:51 i'm all ham all the time 23:40:05 We're so close to the HAM that we can't even see the PORK 23:40:23 |amethyst: I'm worried about increasing the actual regen rate, so I guess that'd be decreasing mp cost - a sort of abstraction of the current system 23:40:42 (would require you use drke's variant rather than mine) 23:40:46 (which is probably fine) 23:40:56 -!- inire has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:58 drke-dcss 23:41:41 PleasingFungus: mp cost is nice for making the spell more tactical for Sk and Ne 23:41:53 early on, I mean 23:42:06 but it will be perhaps not very substantive for the many melee-centric chars that use it from mid-game on 23:42:19 I suppose if the cost is substantial enough they'd need to get more spellpower 23:42:45 meant to say 'perhaps not be a very substantive change' 23:43:14 if it costs a good deal of mp over those turns, early Sk and Ne will have a hard time making good use of it, I'm guessing 23:43:35 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 23:43:36 The build passed. (newwand - 2796b5b #4619 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/106381201 23:43:36 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 23:43:40 that's the problem with any charm balance idea that revolves around mp 23:43:43 of course it could be made higher level and taken out of those starts 23:43:43 the early game 23:43:51 yeah 23:43:57 it's a balance issue for sure 23:44:08 tabstorm was yelling at me on-stream about this 23:44:14 ? 23:44:20 he wanted it to take up a slot somehwo? 23:44:26 charm slots... 23:44:28 like each charm took some from your mmp 23:44:35 i remember that suggestion 23:44:49 I was saying that it would definitely have balance implications and he was like 'eh nbd fam' 23:44:59 charms maintained by reserving some max mp 23:45:01 mostly thinking about early game balance, I was 23:45:03 I'd forgotten about max mp 23:45:20 that has a lot of the same problems as current r/dmsl, iirc 23:46:11 hm 23:46:28 i mean, i think that would work for r/dmsl, if you are ok with just nerfing thos spells without really changing the paradigm 23:46:28 of how they work 23:46:34 I think his suggestion involved removing miscast rates for these spells as well 23:46:44 i'm making a face 23:47:05 :D 23:47:33 !flip :D 23:47:33 (╯°□°)╯︵p: 23:48:40 🙃 23:48:56 !flip PleasingFungus 23:48:57 (╯°□°)╯︵snƃunℲƃuᴉsɐǝlԀ 23:49:07 * PleasingFungus flips out! 23:49:09 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 44.0/20160123151951]] 23:51:12 -!- inire has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:53:23 rip 23:53:53 -!- vev has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:23 so thinking about the wand changes 23:55:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:55:52 my concern about iceblast damage was having it be useful for as long as e.g. wand of cold was 23:56:10 but i guess it's ok if most damage wands run out of steam sooner 23:56:24 except for maybe one like acid that would be a rarer strong damage wand