00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:26 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:01:06 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:11 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 00:06:32 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:25 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 00:08:44 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:37 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 00:09:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:55 Add skill_gains table to chardump, plus minor fixes 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10255 by Roy 00:11:56 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:37 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:47 -!- waat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:54 -!- pop_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:25:27 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:05 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e (34) 00:29:03 -!- Dharmy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:30:46 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:15 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:37:11 -!- aditya has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:00 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:05 -!- cang has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:40:16 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:49 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:24 -!- Rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:45:44 -!- Rast- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:19 -!- Rast has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:48:27 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:49:27 -!- maldini has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:07 -!- Rast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:48 a reminder of how NOT to develop an OSS game: the latest tome4 version http://forums.te4.org/viewforum.php?f=42 00:59:31 forum==bugtracker. seems legit 00:59:41 that's a part of it, yes 01:00:01 other highlights: equipping items will destroy other items in your inventory; player can buy items for 0 gold and sell them back to stores without limit 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:36 and an entire class is impossible to play because it just throws up a lua error dialog box on every frame 01:02:56 it is pretty incredible that all made it into a release. we've had a few pretty awful things in a release, but not that many or that bad 01:04:17 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:15 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:28 at my job outlook is our bug tracker 01:09:49 -!- vev has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:59 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e (34) 01:12:23 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:30 amalloy: in all fairness, how many developers work on Tome4? 01:14:37 beats me 01:14:45 Maybe it's just that one darkgod guy, or whatever his name is 01:15:01 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:16:37 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:19:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e (34) 01:19:41 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:21:20 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:27 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:37:55 -!- zxc has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:03 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:50:07 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 01:55:36 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e 01:57:46 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:29 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:59:00 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:59:59 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:34 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:55 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:14:31 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:14 -!- Blazinghbnd_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:31 -!- Misder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:21:19 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:22:15 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:22:47 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:26:44 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 02:26:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 02:30:16 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:30:43 -!- HalfStep has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:31:30 -!- glaas has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:31:38 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:27 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:33:34 gammafunk: there are several now 02:34:19 I'm surprised that you actively play a game that manages to be a popular roguelike with even more vast design problems than dcss! 02:34:33 I haven't played it, only heard the stories of its badness 02:38:18 well, I only play it because it was easy to mod it to take out the most offensive parts 02:38:19 yeah it's terrible 02:38:29 oh 02:38:53 i have literally played 2 full games of vanilla tome4 and they were years apart 02:40:56 I wonder what the worst bug dcss has had that made it to stable 02:41:07 meleebug was pretty bad 02:41:19 but the crash on long notes was probably worse, it was in like 12 stable versions? 02:41:22 There's meleebug, but it didn't make the game unplayable 02:41:36 Just.. awkward/easier than it should 02:41:54 you could crash the game on demand just by pressing : and typing/pasting junk 02:42:16 lol 02:42:25 -!- Idolo has quit [] 02:42:44 tome4 has had much worse stuff hit stable versions, btw 02:44:47 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:03 permanent player clones eating keystrokes, etc. 02:45:51 I really liked the smite targeted vampiric drain bug 02:47:24 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:12 johnny0, did you play release oozemancer 02:51:29 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:51:48 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:53:12 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e 02:53:57 nope, i don't think i've played since ztome was a thing 02:54:01 you know, random lua panics when you get hit, teleporting directly into walls... 02:54:13 ztome was a thing before oozemancer 02:55:59 ??ztome[2 02:55:59 /s/ was a thing/'s last release/ 02:56:00 ztome[2/3]: <+evilmike> btw marvinpa, are you ever going to announce that tome4 addon/whatever you made? I looked over the change log, it looks cool <+MarvinPA> that's minmay's, he just fills it with references to me for some slightly scary reason or other <+evilmike> oh <+evilmike> right never mind then, I'm going to avoid it 02:56:00 ??ztome[3 02:56:00 ztome[3/3]: <+evilmike> he probably has something like "remove that stupid dream volcano" in the change log, but really the entire thing is the dream volcano, and it's his dreams 02:57:59 -!- LMtx has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:21 so, anyway, how 'bout that power creep 02:59:26 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:00:35 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:01:59 gammafunk: the smite targeting affected vamp drain too? 03:02:08 i thought it was just freeze 03:02:18 ??epic_bugs[vamp 03:02:21 epic_bugs[13/27]: every withered plant on the forest crypt ending seems to have a vampiric weapon under it 03:02:27 ??epic_bugs[freez 03:02:29 epic_bugs[25/27]: From 0.5 to 0.16 freeze and vampiric draining had smite targeting if you used ! or @. 03:02:35 haha 03:02:38 funny 03:02:49 that's even more ridiculous for vamp drain 03:04:21 shame it didn't work for sticky flame 03:05:09 yeah, sticky flame was the only other spell i thought to try it for 03:05:22 besides freeze 03:07:09 i will however point out that i wasn't even aware that there was targeting functionality for ! and @ until i saw that bug on mantis and started screwing around with it 03:17:36 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:16 gammafunk: do you have any idea how this hard boiled gargoyle guy came to the conclusion that band AI doesn't exist 03:23:41 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1180-g64ccc1e (34) 03:25:04 yeah, i just skimmed his post but that was a weird thing for him to say 03:25:57 ??band 03:25:57 band ~ wand ~ wands[1/3]: Yay for wands. Wands use {evocations}. Higher evocation skill allows you to identify remaining charges and increases wand power. Can be recharged with scrolls of recharging. 03:26:09 ??pack 03:26:09 I don't have a page labeled pack in my learndb. Did you mean: pak, peck. 03:26:20 not in learndb, so it doesn't exit 03:26:20 *exist 03:26:27 ??exist 03:26:27 I don't have a page labeled exist in my learndb. 03:29:32 -!- West1C has quit [] 03:30:47 -!- onmyo is now known as dark_star 03:31:27 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:41 ??page 03:33:41 I don't have a page labeled page in my learndb. Did you mean: mage, pager, pale, rage, sage. 03:33:53 ??sage 03:33:54 sage card[1/2]: Gives you the "Sage" status, which causes 50% of all incoming XP to be multiplied a bit (1 + .5*card power) and put towards one skill (same the whole time). The skill is selected randomly, weighted towards those you know better (the weight is based on card power, and at 0 is completely random). Removed in 0.15. 03:34:11 I remember that one 03:36:15 * Medar sacrifices a bread ration. 03:38:47 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:39:05 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 03:39:21 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:43:02 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:54:22 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:36 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:17 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10:33 -!- Snack_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:04 -!- mibe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:38:02 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:38:36 -!- edsrzf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:40:05 -!- cosh has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 04:43:11 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:18 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 05:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:21 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:00:29 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 05:05:15 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:09:05 -!- gareppa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:36 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:01 -!- nosratheno has quit [Quit: "It's only forever; not long at all.."] 05:28:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:13 -!- gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:38:51 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:09 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 05:41:27 -!- Grivan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:46 -!- Blazinghbnd_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:45:07 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:00 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:23 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:56:11 -!- kreedzfreak has quit [] 05:59:51 Swamp worm generated on land! 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10256 by Ololoev 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:16 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:53 The tile does look creepy on land. 06:02:36 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:04:07 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:07:15 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:09:01 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:09:08 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:09:12 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 06:11:41 hmm, interesting 06:12:09 looks like Ds mana link allows them to regenerate magic under Pakellas 06:12:45 completely disabling the regen restrictions 06:12:51 should this really be the case? 06:14:11 ??mana link 06:14:12 magic shield[1/1]: Tier 2 Ds mutation. Level 1 acts as {guardian spirit}. Level 2 doubles mana regeneration rate. Level 3 directs a ratio of (maxmp - mp) / (maxmp) of your health regeneration to MP regeneration (i.e. greater proportion at lower MP). 06:14:42 probably not 06:14:47 mana link replaces HP regeneration with Magic regeneration cur/max magic of the time 06:15:12 so basically 06:15:15 if you get that 06:15:23 you can pretty much use pakellas abilities for free 06:15:35 and spellcast on top of that :D 06:15:40 if you want 06:17:12 Pakellas would still nullify the result of the stage 2 part of that mutation just fine, but stage 3 gets silly 06:20:24 I wonder if just disabling is fine 06:20:34 there is also powered by pain 06:20:37 ??powered by pain 06:20:37 powered by pain[1/2]: Taking damage sometimes restores MP (50%), or gives agility (25%) or might (25%). Tier 2 Ds mutation. 06:20:46 Medar: powered by pain seems fine to keep 06:21:04 one issue with mana link and pakellas is that mana link makes it basically impossible to worship pakellas 06:21:08 (until you get stage 3) 06:21:18 since having spirit shield w/o Magic regen seems counterproductive 06:21:32 with how Pak works 06:21:40 well powered by pain kind of incentives farming mp with safe monsters 06:21:46 not sure how much damage you need to take 06:21:56 I guess that isn't really a major issue unless the player gets unlucky 06:22:07 (and picks Pak before getting mana link) 06:22:15 but Ds is all randomness anyway 06:22:26 -!- infrashortfoo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:26 yeah, that's the worry 06:22:29 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:22:39 I wonder if there was some exception for another mutation, can't remember 06:22:42 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 06:22:47 not allow getting it in certain circumstances 06:23:07 -!- infrasho2tfoo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:26:41 possibly dith and ignite blood? 06:26:54 due to the silliness it implies 06:28:41 ah, that's one yeah 06:28:53 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:28:54 looks like it's simply disabled while worshipping dith 06:29:40 -!- LMtx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:29:51 the whole chain or just the last part? 06:30:17 just the ignite blood part 06:33:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:36:52 !tell MarvinPA Mana link mut (and maybe powered by pain) is problematic with Pak, lvl 3 allows mana regen. Should it simply not work? Probably also applies to DD + spirit shield. 06:36:52 Medar: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 06:37:25 Medar: DD + spirit shield blocks MP regen 06:37:36 DD can't get mana link, it's Ds exclusive 06:37:48 ah, right :P 06:38:53 -!- grimmulfr` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:29 !tell MarvinPA well DD can't get Ds mutations... so nevermind that part :P 06:39:30 Medar: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 06:40:03 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:48:11 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:53:19 -!- maldini has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:53:25 -!- boomboomfire has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:56:18 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:35 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:51 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 07:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:59 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:53 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:02 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:51 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 07:22:34 -!- chukamok has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.4/20160105164030]] 07:24:25 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:40:35 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:48 -!- kuniqs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:50:50 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:44 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:13 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:34 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:12 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:15:32 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:25 -!- LMtx has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:28:00 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:35 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:43:33 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:48:26 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:05 "Nothing quivered" when Javelings of returning ARE quivered 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10257 by kuniqs 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:22 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:05 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:07:30 -!- LMtx has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:07:57 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 09:16:26 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:17 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:16 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:23:23 -!- wheals__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:04 -!- wheals_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:30:54 03|amethyst02 07* 0.18-a0-1181-g73fd97e: Replace human quick desc with manual text (dynast, CanOfWorms) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/73fd97eb129f 09:34:30 -!- wheals__ is now known as wheals 09:37:01 <|amethyst> Reading the "Luring" thread 09:37:08 <|amethyst> why not revert this? 09:37:12 <|amethyst> %git 4728e1c 09:37:12 07MarvinPA02 * 0.16-a0-3926-g4728e1c: Don't make monsters constantly shout when out of LOS 10(12 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4728e1c8166e 09:37:51 <|amethyst> I guess the problem is message spam, but we possibly could hide out of LOS shouts? 09:38:32 I thought the problem was that the whole level wakes up constantly in addition to message spam 09:39:00 Why not just make in-LOS monsters shout constantly? 09:39:31 and to reduce spam, have an initial message like "the orc starts shouting continuously" 09:39:39 and not a new message every turn 09:40:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:41:10 New branch created: pull/229 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/229 09:41:10 03DrKe02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/229 * 0.18-a0-1182-g569601a: Don't allow Ds with magic link to regenerate MP under Pakellas (FIQ) 10(26 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/569601aabb53 09:41:14 how about making monsters without a target move towards the closest monster with a target they can see? 09:41:56 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:40 so if an orc sees you and shouts, the other ones wake up and start following you 09:42:48 s/you/it/ 09:42:50 wheals: that's solid, but it adds a spoilery element to managing the LOS of monsters out of LOS 09:43:35 yeah 09:43:57 maybe instead have monsters that hear a shout follow the shouter around 09:44:20 that seems solid to me 09:44:37 Move towards the shouter location, and then if they see the shouter, follow the shouter 09:44:49 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 09:45:05 <|amethyst> then we can make a summon spell that does nothing but sits in place shouting 09:45:10 haha 09:45:16 You mean projected noise? 09:45:20 <|amethyst> projected noise 2: el... 09:45:23 <|amethyst> yeah 09:46:49 <|amethyst> Titacy is "requesting a dev response" as to why mummies shouldn't get rRot + rConfuse https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18538 09:47:51 <|amethyst> I'm not sure that's how it works, but... 09:48:12 why should they 09:48:26 why shouldn't everyone get free rf+ 09:48:30 and free ac 09:48:43 why don't all monsters do less damage 09:48:43 <|amethyst> bcadren says "It's really not that big of a buff..." 09:49:00 <|amethyst> well, to be fair Hurricos says "dying to a single tarantella is stupid" 09:49:07 i think lich could probably stand to get clar 09:49:13 mummy i don't know about 09:49:18 no 09:49:25 if anything lich should get it even less 09:49:34 well lich is at least a level 8 spell 09:50:20 <|amethyst> I wouldn't mind allowing you to leave forms while confused 09:50:49 i do think loss of clar hurts things like that but with the old list of amulets, there really weren't many that were even worth wearing other than clar 09:51:03 for those chars 09:51:09 now there are at least 09:51:59 letting you drop form would be a more elegant solution 09:52:50 <|amethyst> I also wouldn't mind allowing abandon religion to work while silenced or confused 09:53:02 <|amethyst> pretty sure gods don't like it when you get drunk and curse them under your breath 09:54:23 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:30 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:21 -!- faustar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:41 -!- knu has quit [Quit: Reboot...] 10:01:30 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:32 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:07:07 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:54 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:20 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:46 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 10:26:11 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:27:04 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:41 -!- West1C has quit [] 10:30:24 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:13 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:00 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:29 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:53 yeah, I don't see why mummies should resist confusion or rot. I do think that dying to a single tarantella is stupid, and I think the solution is the same as the one to prevent repeated paralysis 10:37:09 in addition to maybe reevaluating the duration of tarantella confusion 10:38:21 did you agree on anything about wand type reduction? 10:40:03 dpeg: not really -- the discussion petered out or got sidetracked. I'd love to remove one or both of [slow,confuse], magic dart and also frost or flame, invis, disint (and fold it into digging), and several of the non-fireball high-tier wands 10:41:48 The suggestion to remove fire/cold because lightning, fireball, and draining are relatively distinct is a good one, though from a fantasy-theme-expectation level I'd love to keep wand of fire. It conflicting with fireball in damage type makes that a crummy choice tho. 10:43:10 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:45:35 -!- fallenxxxsky has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:46:43 03DrKe02 07* 0.18-a0-1182-g569601a: Don't allow Ds with magic link to regenerate MP under Pakellas (FIQ) 10(66 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/569601aabb53 10:46:43 03wheals02 07* 0.18-a0-1183-g5d83db3: Merge pull request #229 from drke2/patch-3 10(10 seconds ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5d83db33651f 10:46:50 Lasty_: If you send a c-r-d mail, I promise to reply. I agree that we have too many wands. Here's what I like to do: remove disintegration, magic dart, slow. Removing fire because of fireball sounds good to me, too. 10:48:36 or, riffing on iron rod, merge fire / fireball to a new wand of fire that's a magical sticky-flame flamethrower with a splash mechanic :p 10:49:02 geekosaur: the more complicated the proposals get, the higher the chance for Nothing Happens. 10:49:14 was not serious... 10:49:26 So if we only to agree to remove disintergation, say, we should just do it. Small steps. 10:49:39 (aside from the :p, "riffing on iron rod" is already a Bad Idea) 10:49:44 geekosaur: so, rod of ignition? :P 10:58:43 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:20 Lasty_: I'd write myself, but I have another c-r-d mail about Charms in the making, so it's better if you do it :) 11:03:00 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:45 dpeg: why remove disint? 11:06:09 isn't that pretty decent, and also unique 11:06:18 compared to the fact that there's 3 wands dealing with fire 11:06:21 and 2 for cold 11:07:03 FIQ: because its special effects w.r.t. statues is gone, and we already have digging. 11:07:04 maybe that's just me though 11:07:20 oh, it is? 11:07:22 hmm.. 11:07:27 maybe then 11:07:47 Limited digging is good (so yay to spell gone), but there is no need for a strange hybrid of damage and dungeon remodeling. That's why I suggest to keep dig and remove disint. 11:07:49 allthough disint is still nice for digging single space, and to damage stuff 11:08:33 would it become possible to target dig with . 11:08:40 to dig a single space lol 11:08:58 if that was made, then I'd be ok with removing disint 11:09:02 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:09:44 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:33 You want to far-dig much more often than single-tile-dig. 11:10:39 would a mercenary power (similar to the card, but significantly more expensive) be a terrible idea for gozag 11:10:50 !learn add FIQ Is an evil killholer!!! 11:10:51 FIQ[1/1]: Is an evil killholer!!! 11:11:07 dpeg: not really tbh, I barely even use wands 11:11:12 FIQ: yes, because you can already buy out all the opposition with Bribe Branch. 11:11:32 I suppose that's true 11:11:36 !learn add FIQ Says he doesn't use wands. Is probably also an evil liar!!1! 11:11:36 FIQ[2/2]: Says he doesn't use wands. Is probably also an evil liar!!1! 11:11:49 I do use wands... 11:11:52 I said "barely" 11:12:22 But my wand usage is limited to: the utility ones (invis/hw/etc), and occasionally the offensive ones earlygame 11:12:22 imo gozag is quite good 11:12:26 FIQ: I designed Gozag, and *not* being able to bribe individual monsters was really important to me, for several reasons. 11:12:27 -!- mekhami_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:12:31 the only times I've used wands seriously is pakellas 11:12:34 which is something my past self would have strongly disagreed with 11:12:38 dpeg: I see 11:12:57 DrKe: yeah, gozag is pretty good as-is 11:13:10 03wheals02 07* 0.18-a0-1184-g403a57a: Ignore splash damage for reach attacks (dkorduban). 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/403a57a2a416 11:13:15 DrKe: I've been playing Gozag a lot, and there is one quality of life change that'd help a lot: when a pile of gold stops being effective, you should just get the cash (no need for pickup anymore). 11:13:15 so I highly doubted the suggestion would gain any traction 11:13:22 was just wondering if it had been thought of 11:13:40 since it makes flavour sense, and the mercenary card is a thing 11:13:42 FIQ: it's been brought up a million times... every single time we discussed Gozag :) 11:13:52 sorry! 11:14:04 np... if you want, I can briefly explain why I think it's bad on a god 11:14:15 sure 11:14:15 dpeg: it isn't based on the gold itself anymore, you can pick it up immediately if you want 11:14:19 if you don't mind 11:15:00 um, I have a better suggestion 11:15:07 wheals: I know, I want that the gold gets auto-apported to the player after that duration, just for convenience 11:15:09 just give the gold directly to the player 11:15:22 e.g. don't leave it on the ground in first place 11:15:29 FIQ: it is cool to have gold on the ground, because this visually tells you: no corpse, this gold instead 11:15:42 hmm that is true I suppose 11:15:44 * dpeg mumbles something about Midas etc. 11:16:54 could just make a passive power that makes you "absorb" nearby gold at a semi-regular basis, but maybe that would be silly 11:17:08 dpeg: yeah, Midas has been my thought when it comes to corpse->gold 11:17:12 guess that was the flavour ;P 11:17:22 -!- sanka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:18:07 it doesn't really bother me since autoexplore gets it anyway 11:18:11 dpeg: anyway, why exactly is an "unlimited" source of Mercenary card a terrible idea? 11:18:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:18:21 wheals: yeah, I never felt it was a problem myself 11:18:24 wheals: yes, it is not a big deal, just a little nicety 11:18:27 was just a suggestion if some people do find it an issue 11:25:41 the mercenary card was pretty good when monsters could pick up items 11:25:42 it was fairly easy to get a gnaga with good armor and a large shield etc 11:25:42 DrKe: allies in general were better back then 11:25:42 I suppose 11:25:43 now it's entirely up to RNG 11:25:43 it was something of a secret tech 11:25:43 hmm really? 11:25:43 not a lot of people did that 11:25:43 not a lot of people used merc card 11:25:43 I've played a lot of NH, it's standard practice for ally management there (but not a lot of people have allies) 11:25:43 FIQ: Naturally, bribing monsters individually would have to have reduced chances and/or higher costs for tougher monsters. This is exactly like Charms: you can easily affect the chaff and it is harder (or impossible) to get the brass. 11:25:43 DrKe: well.. the only source of mercenary is in wonders 11:25:43 and wonders is dangerous 11:25:43 for several reasons 11:25:44 s/have allies/use allies/ 11:25:44 the worst thing that could really happen is you screw over your stats 11:25:44 focus, helix mostly 11:25:44 -!- grimmulfr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:44 well, helix averages towards being good 11:25:44 FIQ: Secondly, the interface would be clumsy: target monster, confirm/check price etc. 11:25:44 so it would only be very undesirable if you already had a good mut set 11:25:44 dpeg: oh I'm not sure if you understood what I meant 11:25:44 in that case 11:25:44 I was not suggesting bribing seperate monsters 11:25:44 (and also, that's very similar to Enslave Soul) 11:25:44 FIQ: so this is I wanted something different: you pour money into a whole branch, and it is spent on the most dangerous monsters. No prompts, and the desired effects. It also works very well with how corruption really works. 11:25:44 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:44 except for the part where you have to kill a monster to enslave it 11:25:44 but rather a way to get the same effect as the Mercenary card does 11:25:45 (but presumably for more gold) 11:25:45 kvaak: yes, the exact effect and flavour are different 11:25:45 but the end result is somewhat similar 11:26:04 you have to be able to kill the monster fast with enslave soul, have invo invested etc, and you can only have one 11:26:13 gozag single target bribe wouldnt have any of these limitations i assume 11:26:44 FIQ: ah, sorry for wrong reply 11:26:53 DrKe: right, I wasn't suggesting that though as said 11:27:01 also, the turn to kill is fairly high 11:27:05 it's 2*Invo iirc 11:27:06 but note that many gods provide summons already 11:27:07 which is plenty 11:27:17 uniques have a lot of hp 11:27:18 dpeg: let's see... I count two 11:27:24 also you have to not damage them too much in advance 11:27:24 permanent ones 11:27:30 FIQ: count again :) 11:27:33 * dpeg stormed Zot yesterday with 4 bribes 11:27:39 its just a sort of difficult ability 11:27:42 to use 11:27:42 heh, I did that with 2 11:27:44 with nuance and etc 11:27:47 in one game 11:27:58 made Zot:5 ridiculously easy 11:28:06 perhaps too easy.. 11:28:15 anyway, dpeg 11:28:18 Yred 11:28:18 yeah it destroys zot:5 11:28:21 and Beogh 11:28:21 fedhas eat your heart out 11:28:26 -!- LMtx is now known as Guest61647 11:28:26 -!- Guest61647 has quit [Killed (leguin.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 11:28:32 are the only ones that give you permanent allies 11:28:45 there is also Fedhas, Makhleb and TSO 11:28:48 for temporary ones 11:28:59 maybe I'm missing something? 11:29:13 Yes, I had mixed feelings about bribes not working on anyone. On the one hand, suspension of disbelief. OTOH, it underlines the power of money. 11:30:00 did you write the gozag prayer lines dpeg 11:30:08 some of them, yes 11:30:14 there are a lot of them i noticed 11:30:25 The other day I thought that "Let them eat cake" should be added. 11:30:35 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:46 dpeg: I think that IMO I would have preferred that over the arguably broken bribe branch, but maybe that is just me :P 11:30:54 It's your god though 11:30:57 that is a classic yes 11:31:52 In German there is "Eure Armut kotzt mich an" (something like "Your poverty makes me sick") but I don't know if that's idiomatic. 11:32:07 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:32:35 -!- Guest61647 has quit [Client Quit] 11:40:58 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:14 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:45:27 -!- WebFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:14 i don't think that sentiment exists in english 11:46:19 !seen dpeg 11:46:19 WebFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:46:19 I last saw dpeg at Wed Jan 27 16:31:52 2016 UTC (14m 27s ago) saying 'In German there is "Eure Armut kotzt mich an" (something like "Your poverty makes me sick") but I don't know if that's idiomatic.' on ##crawl-dev. 11:46:56 WebFungus: cheers 11:46:59 dpeg: did you see the discussion yesterday about merging disint + dig? (disintegrates the first thing hit and then digs for remaining range) 11:48:03 WebFungus: not really. I came here to ask whether something happened on wand discussion :) Myself, I'm in favour of removing disintegration outright, but I wouldn't mind something more complicated if we can reduce number of wands. 11:48:21 I have a branch about halfway done 11:48:26 wand streamlining 11:48:34 it doesnt. but suddenly I understand the idiom of certain songs I've heard by German artists... 11:48:36 makes them more aerodynamic, easier to throw 11:49:20 i mean i don't really like removing fire/cold because the fireball and lightning are just not as effective 11:49:24 draining is fine though 11:49:31 i'm faintly worried about combining wand streamlining (which *is* intended to be a player nerf, albeit a small one) and pak in the same release 11:50:05 could it ever be a player buff for wand acqs or are you going to give all the weight to sub-yellow tier wands 11:50:17 ditto removing destruction/swarmrod in the same release 11:51:14 DrKe: the latter; no high-weighted acq wands are getting removed 11:51:32 invis was suggested 11:51:37 or does that not count as one 11:51:45 it doesn't count for acq 11:51:56 !source _acquirement_wand_subtype 11:51:56 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc#l765 11:51:59 i see 11:52:01 fireball tier 11:52:24 hw/haste are 25, tele is 15 (?), invis/etc are 8 11:53:00 is the invis thing just as a part of removing evocable invis in general? 11:53:06 not really 11:53:08 or is it just a bad wand iyo 11:53:18 i'm trying to reduce inventory clutter & evocable bloat 11:53:20 so there are no plans to remove cloak of invisibility 11:53:23 for instance 11:53:27 no plans that I'm aware of 11:53:34 ic 11:53:39 i mean i can appreciate that 11:54:20 just dont really like the tier 1 damage wands other than fire, cold, and draining 11:54:28 the idea is to reduce the number of wands you end up carting around. i'm torn on fire/cold tbh - since I think you'll probably end up carrying the other destruction wands instead, so it's 'just' a nerf more or less 11:54:33 i guess disint would actually be my favorite after that but i can see why you would want to remove it 11:54:46 they're generic and boring but they really are better than lightning/fball 11:54:49 well why not remove wand of fireball 11:55:03 fball's more distinctive. not yet another beam 11:55:12 also disint isn't getting removed 11:55:30 oh 11:55:39 people seemed on board with that 11:55:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:00 maybe I missed something; my current plan was to merge it with dig 11:56:24 i guess that is what i meant by remove lol 11:56:32 i mean i assume dig isn't getting a name change 11:56:33 that's the opposite of removal!!! 11:56:35 to digtenigrate 11:56:45 doesn't exactly roll off the tongue 11:57:01 disindigrate 11:57:02 makes sense to me 11:57:03 and it loses the ability to target nonwalls 11:57:15 -!- jefus_ is now known as jefus 11:57:31 wouldn't that just be dig 11:57:42 well dig can't be . targeted 11:57:46 to destroy only one wall tile 11:58:09 |amethyst mentioned the problem with . targeting yesterday: you can't . target things which are out of LOS 11:58:20 true story: i didn't realize that /dig destroys grates until like, a month ago 11:58:39 stopped carrying disint in favor of dig after that 11:58:45 rip 11:59:20 well the precision of disint lets you killhole in places you wouldnt be able to otherwise, and can destroy vaults doors which is tactically good/interesting(?) 11:59:34 WebFungus: this is prone to bikeshedding, but I like about lightning and fireball that they have slightly different targeting than the bolts 11:59:35 ! works for beams beyond los right? 11:59:42 never used ! in my life 12:00:01 my impression was that encouraging easier killholing was considered 'bad' 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:04 DrKe: Why! Don't! You!? 12:00:05 from the earlier discussion 12:00:06 i have many times regardless of my confidence that it would work at all 12:00:19 how can this feature benefit me 12:00:27 i am not really aware of it 12:00:35 ??! 12:00:35 ![1/3]: ! adds an annotation to your current floor. ! (glyph) represents a potion. See ![2] for !'s on hit. 12:00:36 other than that it was the freeze bug culprit 12:00:42 ??![3] 12:00:43 ![3/3]: http://i.imgur.com/BO7tU.gif 12:00:46 if your beam range may exceed your los? 12:00:51 perhaps through fog etc? 12:00:56 iono 12:01:26 see bcadren didn't even see fit to include it in his great learndb glyph dictionary 12:01:30 haha 12:01:40 fair enough 12:02:13 WebFungus: yes, killholing is not a feature 12:02:19 -!- maldini has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:29 (Fo may be exempted) 12:02:30 except for fo, probably 12:02:31 hah 12:02:33 o/ 12:02:36 \o 12:02:39 haha 12:02:46 it's not a feature, it's a bug? 12:02:48 :| 12:03:01 at least an exploit 12:03:22 of course, the layout generator sometimes generously produces many killholes 12:03:23 exploit is so unkind... 12:05:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.18-a0-1184-g403a57a (34) 12:05:14 -!- mopl is now known as mopl_away 12:06:44 WebFungus: our monsters find killholers very unkind: "We've been hired with the prospect of intense battles. And all we get is dying one by one next to an unseen coward in his killhole." 12:07:13 cunning! strategy! what else does an adventurer need? 12:07:27 seekers after the Orb are a cowardly lot... 12:07:48 they are the ones trying to gang up on you 12:07:55 rather than engage in honourable single combat 12:07:57 ad nauseam 12:08:33 ad nauseam... now that's a good description of killhole combat. 12:14:58 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:16:52 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:19:00 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 12:21:19 -!- molotove1 has quit [Client Quit] 12:23:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:25:42 The kobold wields a runed blowgun. The kobold shoots a poisoned needle. | The kobold unwields an uncursed enchanted blowgun. 12:25:45 runed blowgun->uncursed enchanted blowgun; is this correct? i can find logic to it, just confused me for a moment when i tried to find a runed blowgun before reading the rest of the log 12:26:25 <|amethyst> jefus: yes, "enchanted" means you know it doesn't have a brand 12:26:33 <|amethyst> because you saw a monster wield it 12:26:48 <|amethyst> it doesn't have a brand but is runed/glowing/whatever 12:26:49 oh ok 12:26:58 <|amethyst> so it must be +x unbranded, or cursed 12:27:05 i wasn't clear on the lines between runed and enchanted 12:27:12 thanks 12:27:32 very cool that the code does handle that correctly 12:27:37 agreed 12:27:46 <|amethyst> oh hey 12:27:53 <|amethyst> !lm * crash~~ray\.cc max=vlong 12:27:54 301. [2016-01-05 19:30:33] GreatCaesar the Grand Gadgeteer (L17 KoFi of Pakellas) ASSERT((iround(v.x) + iround(v.y)) % 2 == 1) in 'ray.cc' at line 117 failed on turn 43260. (Elf:1) 12:28:02 <|amethyst> no ray crashes for a while 12:28:17 <|amethyst> tempted to re-add chaos bounce randomization 12:28:18 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:28:29 <|amethyst> and to add flubber walls 12:29:13 guess i may as well ask, is runed == glowing? 12:29:26