00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:33 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:10:42 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:56 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:33 -!- Ryblade has quit [Quit: poo] 00:14:03 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:14 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:25:25 !won . ely 00:25:26 amalloy (ely) has won once in 14 games (7.14%): 1xVSIE 00:32:53 -!- destroythecore has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:06 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:31 -!- GauHelldragon2 is now known as GauHelldragon 00:43:40 is +2 enchantment worth about +1 base damage? 00:46:11 Lasty_: perhaps amulet of dismissal should print a message on removal. currently you silently get Vertigo 00:47:55 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:49:53 chequers: no you don't. you get vertigo on equip, not on unequip 00:50:20 (and you get a message about it) 00:52:16 -!- SenoraRaton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:36 chequers: base damage gets modified based on skills and stats, so they are quite different 00:58:34 amalloy: ah whoops 00:58:56 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:43 -!- Rotatell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:08 -!- lewdmeister has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:38 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:59 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:06 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 01:05:59 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-993-g4a3b7c7 (34) 01:08:41 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:34 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:06 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:12:30 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:12:35 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:36 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:41 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:49 -!- koolguydude has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:18:19 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:46 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-993-g4a3b7c7 (34) 01:19:09 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:35 -!- somebody has quit [] 01:19:45 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:43 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:22:50 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:09 -!- sysice has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:29:31 -!- Mordru has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:30:55 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:34:21 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:43:59 -!- jamcknight has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:53:24 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:17 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-993-g4a3b7c7 01:54:23 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:55:13 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 01:56:39 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:36 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:25 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:07:01 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:08:42 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: Farewell.] 02:08:56 -!- jefus has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:46 -!- glaas has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:15:26 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Quit: I like to rock] 02:31:01 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:32:32 -!- maldini has quit [Client Quit] 02:33:27 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:35 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:16 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:16 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:44 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:52:20 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.18-a0-993-g4a3b7c7 02:52:37 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest16643 02:54:40 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:56:25 -!- Guest16643 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:35 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:15:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-993-g4a3b7c7 (34) 03:17:59 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:43 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:07 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 03:35:39 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:37:27 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest43726 03:38:45 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 03:45:27 -!- } has quit [Client Quit] 03:49:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:13 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:56:34 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:46 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01:06 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:07 -!- Guest43726 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:17 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:24:31 Autoexplore occasionally ignores sleeping monsters 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10223 by milo 04:24:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:27:06 -!- Cerpin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:38 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:35:53 -!- KamiKatye is now known as KamiKatze 04:42:57 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest82264 04:49:21 -!- mibe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:49:43 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 04:54:35 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:51 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:16 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:37 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:17:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:18:42 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:33:31 -!- aditya has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:23 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:46:48 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:48:12 -!- zhaorenw has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:48:14 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 05:49:08 -!- nebel has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:36 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:51:59 -!- Tpain is now known as zhaorenw 05:53:01 -!- maldini has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:11 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:57:04 -!- Guest82264 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:44 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest59332 06:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:58 -!- Guest59332 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:03:12 -!- bleak has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 06:03:59 -!- FiftyNine has quit [] 06:08:57 -!- doubleD_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:13:35 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:24 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:21:11 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:24 -!- roadmap has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:29:26 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:31:25 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest31090 06:34:38 -!- Guest31090 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:41 -!- JuicyPear has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:38:51 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:50:45 -!- maldini has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:57:40 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:44 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:55 -!- vev_ is now known as vev 07:16:47 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:52 -!- scummos| has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:31:31 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest92106 07:40:58 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:42 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:48:12 i remember a discussion on ##crawl-dev about how #6503 was caused by sensing a monster incorrectly caching it as unable to reach you, but i guess we never decided on a fix 07:48:14 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:48:34 -!- beogh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:54:07 -!- waat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:01 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:25 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:46 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:56 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 08:06:35 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:08:18 -!- AofANLA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:49 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:11:31 -!- Nyvrem has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:16:52 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:25:38 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:26:19 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: ☆～＼(　*¯∇¯)ノ ▁▂▃▅▆▇█▓▒░～☆] 08:31:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:37:50 -!- AofANLA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:47:55 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:50:27 -!- Nebel is now known as nebel 08:50:35 -!- nebel has quit [Client Quit] 08:50:35 -!- zhaorenw has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:56:38 -!- sysice has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:58:35 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:10 -!- Reverie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:12 -!- Tilogour has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:14:26 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:38 -!- Guest92106 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:44 -!- maldini has quit [Quit: maldini] 09:24:03 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest27591 09:27:56 -!- Guest27591 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:40:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:56:52 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 09:59:26 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:11 -!- DDFi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:14:39 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 10:18:15 -!- hyperbolic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:24:27 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:24:49 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest45745 10:28:50 -!- Guest45745 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:40:35 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:58 -!- archaeo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:19 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:46:55 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18747 10:48:00 I was just going to respond to that dpeg 10:48:07 -!- Surr_ is now known as Surr 10:48:30 This is a hell cut proposal by Rast which I think is interesting. He suggests to replace the 1+4*7 levels by a single branch of length 9=1+2+2+2+2 10:48:44 one issue is that, if Pan gets changed to be ~15 levels as has been discussed, we go from Pan being too much like Abyss to Pan being too much like proposed hell 10:48:58 I really think this can float, but I do hells very rarely, so it needs feedback by profund allruners. 10:48:59 not that that's a huge obstacle either way, ofc 10:49:06 archaeo: yes, thought so :) 10:50:36 re: Pan vs Hell vs Abyss: I'd like to keep Abyss as it is (especially as it is the one area out of the three that you will see even if you don't care for the extended game), and as we have proposals for Pan and for Hell shortening, we can compare and decide which one we like best. 10:51:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:10 personally, I love the Pan reform idea, and I'd prefer Hell to be changed so non-rune floors are simply much, much smaller 10:52:24 but there are lots of cool and rad ways to go 10:53:44 archaeo: yes, if anything becomes serious about (i.e. some coding person expressing interest), then we should have a place to compare approaches 10:55:32 while I'm here, as a more general point: 10:56:43 I'd like to ask the devs what, if anything, they would like to see change about the Tavern 10:56:47 I think people might do Hell more often if the first rune was 3 levels away instead of 8 levels 10:57:03 though maybe that makes things too easy 10:58:25 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:59:59 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:20 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:09 -!- KamiKatze_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:06:33 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:51 -!- maldini has quit [Quit: maldini] 11:19:35 -!- JuicyPear has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:17 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:20:33 ooh, i like the idea of keeping a lot of levels but making them small 11:20:42 -!- zhaorenw has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:24:47 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 43.0.2/20151221130713]] 11:25:18 -!- maldini has quit [Client Quit] 11:25:35 -!- endou has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:28:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:44 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:37 <|amethyst> I like the idea of reachcleaving on scythes 11:33:00 <|amethyst> I'll go along with a 30% reduction in game length in exchange for that 11:34:29 -!- kuniqs has quit [Client Quit] 11:38:33 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 11:44:34 Rast: what if you made hell 1-2 significantly more difficult with monster spawns and had it 3 floors deep? 11:44:55 and made the rune floors in pan come more quickly 11:50:09 -!- maldini has quit [Quit: maldini] 11:51:00 we already have a pretty good plan to reform Pan by making its number of levels fixed 11:51:09 around 15-17 or so 11:51:32 -!- serq has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:51:49 -!- titanjones has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:56:03 -!- molotove1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:58:39 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:23 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:45 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:04:56 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:11 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:12:50 gammafunk: is the plan to only have a single exit portal at the end of pan? 12:13:09 archaeo: the plan was to have the final level simply be a holy pan map 12:13:14 of which there would be several variants 12:13:23 as for single exit portal, I don't know this was decided 12:13:38 but it might be a bit annoying 12:14:22 I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with requiring a player to complete all of Pan in one go 12:14:25 or to only offer exits through the abyss in Pan:1-14 or whatever 12:14:34 I can see how it'd be annoying tho 12:15:01 well your first statement is confusing, we're not requiring that 12:15:15 -!- Marvin is now known as Guest39969 12:15:37 it's simply that the final level will be holy pan, if you haven't gotten the demonic rune yet, the rune will be in that spot on the holy pan map 12:16:12 if you mean preventing re-entry, I don't think that was the plan 12:16:30 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:16:43 -!- koolguydude has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:16:52 so you'd be okay with a player going through Pan:1-15, and then going back through a second time? 12:16:57 would the floors stay the same, or change? 12:17:32 well you can't go back through 12:17:32 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:48 if you exit, you enter again and the level progression proceeds from that point 12:18:24 -!- rj54x has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:18:36 I see 12:18:38 but again, it's possible for us to prevent any re-entry if we wanted it 12:18:47 -!- spring_break_08 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:32 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:06 -!- serq has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:20:22 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:55 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:58 -!- Guest39969 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:00 Are mid-Pan exits desirable mainly so that unspoiled players don't get suckered? 12:21:20 I'm not sure if I understand the "annoyance" you're concerned about 12:23:38 I don't either, not sure what you're referring to 12:23:49 If you mean back when we were talking about holy pan 12:23:59 I mean having one exit on the final level 12:24:02 vs. having multiple 12:24:07 the current map has multiple 12:24:16 sorry, I was unclear 12:24:37 I mean, will the only way out of Pan be in the final level 12:24:47 or will levels spawn exit portals as normal? 12:25:34 No, the the idea was that there would be exits in pan levels before the final one 12:26:16 -!- } has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:17 Having only one exit ever on the final map is pretty onerous, if you decide entering pan was a Big Mistake, you basically have to just die 12:26:54 pikel tile still has a whip even when you tukima him 12:26:56 <}> I found a game breaking bug, literally unplayable. If you tukima pikel, his webtiles tile still has a whip displayed 12:27:08 oh, fancy you found it 3 seconds after I did 12:27:12 <}> lol 12:27:17 <}> I saw it first! 12:27:20 yeah pikel's tile has the whip built in, sorry 12:27:29 gammafunk: that sounds fair, thanks 12:28:04 archaeo: I think a lot of those exit details are not set in stone or anything 12:28:07 <}> damn you ontoclasm and your beautiful tiles 12:28:47 oh, sure gamma, I think the way you've explained things sounds sensible though 12:31:19 -!- ussdefiant_Lappy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:11 orc wizard (06o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 39 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), invisibility, magic dart (3d4), confuse / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), invisibility [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 12:34:11 <}> %??orc wizard 12:34:21 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:01 -!- serq has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:51:19 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:51:42 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:13 -!- mopl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:55:23 !seen archaeo 12:55:23 I last saw archaeo at Mon Jan 4 17:28:47 2016 UTC (26m 35s ago) saying 'oh, sure gamma, I think the way you've explained things sounds sensible though' on ##crawl-dev. 12:55:51 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:37 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:24 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:22 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:42 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:42 -!- archaeo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:24 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:06 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:24 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18732&p=254981#p254981 13:35:44 cool proposal by tabstorm for necromutation spell --> amulet 13:39:07 <}> i think that amulet would be too powerful, confuse is the only thing that would trouble you 13:39:27 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:42:17 would it be more powerful than faith? 13:43:22 <}> faith is not easily swappable, that necro amulet just has a 15 turn cooldown 13:44:16 <}> i mean, a lvl 8 spell turned into an amulet 13:44:20 <}> that doesnt sound too good to you? 13:44:31 <}> it just lacks the +5 ac and draining on unarmed hit 13:46:17 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18749&p=254989#p254989 13:46:41 I suggested changing the cooldown into torment on equip and unequip, } 13:46:59 and a last one for tonight: bcadren suggests to add clarity to !briliance, which sounds really good to me 13:47:13 archaeo: yes, that is better than 15 turn cooldown 13:47:35 <|amethyst> yes, it would be good for brilliance to have some use, other than temporarily delaying stat-zero, for non-casters 13:47:38 dpeg: thank you, but I think } may be correct that it'd still be too good 13:47:42 <}> i like the clarity to brilliance change a lot 13:48:31 archaeo: I am only relaying that -- I have never used the necromutation spell ever (and I love Necromancers) 13:49:05 |amethyst: alright, will you do the other shift and mention the posting at a time appropriate for the Americas? 13:49:46 <}> i use necromut quite a bit and the only issue with it is you can get confused without clarity 13:49:50 <}> especially if you're with xom 13:50:11 * dpeg should trade such favours for oubliette reviews/reports :) 13:50:12 <|amethyst> no guarantees I'll be around at an "appropriate" time but I'll mention it if I remember 13:50:22 |amethyst: thx <3 13:50:40 <}> but the clarity for brilliance pot I think is a really great change 13:50:44 <}> since clarity amulet is gone 13:51:32 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:33 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:53:39 <|amethyst> poor mummies :) 13:53:52 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:53:55 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:54:04 <|amethyst> "We made a replacement for your dearly-missed amulet of clarity." 13:54:07 <|amethyst> "Yay!" 13:54:11 <|amethyst> "It's a potion." 13:54:16 <|amethyst> "FFFFFFFUUUUUUUU" 13:54:18 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:27 <}> ever done spider lair with a melee mummy without clarity amulet? :( 13:54:31 <}> !lg . mube 13:54:32 9. bsdbeard the Conqueror (L27 MuBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-12-31 11:43:29, with 1445595 points after 118931 turns and 12:15:13. 13:54:35 <}> very scary 13:55:06 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mu !boring !won / status~~confused 13:55:10 572/35178 games for * (recent mu !boring !won): N=572/35178 (1.63%) 13:55:13 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mu !boring !won spider / status~~confused 13:55:14 38/103 games for * (recent mu !boring !won spider): N=38/103 (36.89%) 13:55:22 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mu !boring !won s=+br / status~~confused 13:55:24 572/35178 games for * (recent mu !boring !won): 499/32264x D [1.55%], 38/103x Spider [36.89%], 12/335x Abyss [3.58%], 7/850x Lair [0.82%], 6/93x Elf [6.45%], 4/264x Orc [1.52%], 2/131x Vaults [1.53%], 1/12x Zig [8.33%], 1/9x Tomb [11.11%], 1/14x Crypt [7.14%], 1/7x WizLab [14.29%], 0/62x Shoals [0.00%], 0/41x Temple [0.00%], 0/45x Volcano [0.00%], 0/57x Lab [0.00%], 0/28x Slime [0.00%], 0/70x Swam... 13:55:30 <}> 30% of mummies died in spider while confused? 13:55:33 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mu !boring !won s=br o=% / status~~confused 13:55:36 572/35178 games for * (recent mu !boring !won): 38/103x Spider [36.89%], 1/7x WizLab [14.29%], 1/9x Tomb [11.11%], 1/12x Zig [8.33%], 1/14x Crypt [7.14%], 6/93x Elf [6.45%], 12/335x Abyss [3.58%], 499/32264x D [1.55%], 2/131x Vaults [1.53%], 4/264x Orc [1.52%], 7/850x Lair [0.82%], 0/62x Shoals [0.00%], 0/41x Temple [0.00%], 0/45x Volcano [0.00%], 0/57x Lab [0.00%], 0/28x Slime [0.00%], 0/70x Swam... 13:55:43 <|amethyst> }: 30% of mummy deaths in Spider were while confused 13:55:50 <}> well anyway it was very scary for my mube 13:55:57 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mube !boring !won s=br o=% / status~~confused 13:55:58 10/830 games for * (recent mube !boring !won): 1/1x Crypt [100.00%], 1/4x Spider [25.00%], 1/6x Elf [16.67%], 7/739x D [0.95%], 0/3x Sewer [0.00%], 0/2x Slime [0.00%], 0/2x Geh [0.00%], 0/2x Shoals [0.00%], 0/2x IceCv [0.00%], 0/2x Ossuary [0.00%], 0/1x Swamp [0.00%], 0/1x Coc [0.00%], 0/5x Snake [0.00%], 0/1x Volcano [0.00%], 0/7x Vaults [0.00%], 0/7x Bailey [0.00%], 0/10x Orc [0.00%], 0/11x Abys... 13:56:07 |amethyst: FR increase likelihood of !clarity from potion petition 13:56:49 <|amethyst> FR: if you put on the amulet of undeath as a mummy, you become non-undead 13:57:00 the amulet of unundeath! 13:57:05 ??amulet of undeath 13:57:05 I don't have a page labeled amulet_of_undeath in my learndb. 13:57:07 pls 13:57:10 <|amethyst> and as a vampire, it reverses the hunger meter 13:57:20 so drinking blood makes you thirstier? 13:57:29 <|amethyst> so being thirstier makes you more alive 13:57:42 |amethyst: ghouls still get hungry, but eating chunks rots them 13:59:59 <|amethyst> greensnark: re missing games in scoring, there is still a problem (missing games on restart) even after my commit-at-the-end change, and I think I know why 14:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:36 <|amethyst> greensnark: which is that the changes to the logfile offsets table are all committed with the first batch of lines 14:00:57 -!- serq has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:01:17 <|amethyst> greensnark: so if we die in the middle of an update but after the first 3000-line commit, subsequent log lines from that update batch will be missing 14:01:41 <|amethyst> greensnark: we'd need to update the offsets table in sync with processing the lines 14:02:25 <|amethyst> greensnark: any suggestions on how to do that moderately efficiently? or a patch?---I don't know the code very well 14:03:50 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:55 <|amethyst> greensnark: would it make sense to store the offset and length with each logfile line record? Then the offsets table could just be a view 14:04:27 <|amethyst> greensnark: (with an appropriate index of course) 14:07:36 -!- maldini has quit [Quit: maldini] 14:11:29 -!- dpeg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:12 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:18:22 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 14:21:12 <}> does anyone use amulet of harm? 14:21:15 <}> ever 14:22:07 i've seen several people use it 14:22:21 <}> succesfuly? 14:22:27 -!- zhaorenw has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:22:27 yes 14:22:31 someone's zigged with it even 14:22:45 zig of max carnage 14:23:05 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25:19 -!- simples has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:27:27 on the right character is like +25% damage for nothing 14:30:46 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: what is the right character? 14:31:00 <|amethyst> high defenses obviously 14:31:40 <|amethyst> well, maybe not obviously---I guess the best defense is not to have alive enemies in your LOS 14:32:29 I assume super blaster caster 14:33:06 <}> i would never take 25% more damage for 25% less hp (essentially) 14:33:14 <}> there is no problem doing damage in the game 14:33:45 <|amethyst> !apt de hp 14:33:45 DE (SK_HP)=-2 14:33:46 <|amethyst> !apt te hp 14:33:47 Te (SK_HP)=-2 14:33:55 <|amethyst> !apt hu hp 14:33:55 Hu (SK_HP)=0 14:34:12 <|amethyst> you wouldn't play TeCj or DECj rather than HuCj? 14:34:13 <}> also my felid is now standing next to 4 oklob plants guarding 3 stairs down, I think thats a bit unfair 14:34:24 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:34:27 <}> I would but not for reasons of it being a good choice for winning 14:34:30 <}> I play felids quite a bit 14:39:32 <}> I think the point mi trying to make, if you play careful, the only deaths you will have are from unavoidable encounters, like autotravel into sigmund 14:39:49 <}> and 25% less hp just makes those unavoidables encounters more frequent 14:42:15 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:36 how is clarity when you quaff brilliance good, again? 14:42:43 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:26 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it would be nice for brilliance to do something for non-casters other than delaying stat-zero 14:45:38 possibly, but I don't think clarity is the best effect to add 14:46:18 all it does is turn monsters that have a relevant confusion effect (which tend to be quite rare monsters, namely thinking of golden eyes) into something that you'll ignore 14:46:24 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:47:05 and we already have a potion to mitigate the effect of confusion 14:47:30 Game crashed after I choose Chaos Knight Demonspawn with spear 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10224 by Tilogour 14:47:30 <|amethyst> not paralysis 14:47:30 <|amethyst> but 14:47:38 <|amethyst> I do think +MR is probably more reasonable 14:47:43 <|amethyst> or ++ or whatever 14:47:57 probably just one level, just what trog's hand does, yeah 14:48:05 that would be pretty reasonable 14:48:07 <|amethyst> the problem is things like tarantellas 14:48:15 <|amethyst> that don't check MR 14:48:39 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:41 well we certainly don't want to design a potion around one notable monster; if tarantulas are that big a problem, they're the monster that needs changing, I feel 14:48:53 to be honest I think they're kind of only an issue at all for mummies 14:48:53 <|amethyst> perhaps now that rP is not 100%, tarantella confusion could happen on successful poisoning? 14:48:58 ??trogs hand 14:48:58 trog's hand[1/2]: Trog power which grants regeneration at the same rate as the spell, as well as 80 mr, for a duration heavily dependent on piety. Works even on deep dwarves, mummies, and bloodless vampires. Ignores sickness. 14:49:08 <|amethyst> I guess the problem there is gargoyles 14:49:26 <|amethyst> because that would completely neuter them for gargoyles and mummies (or liches) 14:49:27 to be honest, I don't find tarantulas to be terribly problematic in practice 14:49:52 !lg * recent br=spider status=confused 14:49:54 327. Badtown the Jinx (L17 MuEn of Gozag), mangled by a wolf spider on Spider:2 on 2016-01-02 06:44:12, with 157031 points after 56090 turns and 3:14:12. 14:50:02 !lg * recent br=spider !boring / status=confused 14:50:04 325/3562 games for * (recent br=spider !boring): N=325/3562 (9.12%) 14:50:09 <|amethyst> you want ~~ 14:50:14 well what's weird is 14:50:17 <|amethyst> or does = work there 14:50:19 I think it somehow works with = 14:50:20 yeah 14:50:27 !lg * recent br=spider !boring status=confused x=status 14:50:28 <|amethyst> !lg * recent br=spider !boring / status~~confused 14:50:29 325. [status=confused] Badtown the Jinx (L17 MuEn of Gozag), mangled by a wolf spider on Spider:2 on 2016-01-02 06:44:12, with 157031 points after 56090 turns and 3:14:12. 14:50:29 gammafunk: not trying to be That Guy, but Trog's hand gives mr++, I think 14:50:31 325/3562 games for * (recent br=spider !boring): N=325/3562 (9.12%) 14:50:35 <|amethyst> aha 14:50:42 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mu br=spider !boring / status=confused 14:50:43 38/103 games for * (recent mu br=spider !boring): N=38/103 (36.89%) 14:50:58 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:51:19 <|amethyst> !lg * recent mu !boring / status=confused 14:51:23 572/35528 games for * (recent mu !boring): N=572/35528 (1.61%) 14:51:26 +1 on !brill providing MR. it does add additional analysis load on what to carry but definitely makes the potion more interesting 14:51:33 -!- serq has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:52:02 but another thing to consider is that not all potions need to be useful to all chars 14:52:39 I don't bother picking up or using might on many of my mage chars 14:53:02 sure. but int is kinda barely useful for stat death which means it's not really useful 14:53:11 what? 14:53:22 for non casters 14:53:38 that sounds like an issue with int itself, I'm not sure what you're saying 14:53:48 it's an issue with stat death really :v 14:53:50 potion of brill I meant 14:53:55 it's not only int, it's wizardry and spell power 14:54:01 <|amethyst> yes, int itself is the real issue with !brilliance 14:54:03 sorry. on phone and auto correct is being s psi 14:54:05 pain 14:54:09 a pain 14:54:21 <|amethyst> that if you're not casting, int is completely worthless except to keep you from dying 14:54:32 <|amethyst> whereas Str still has some residual effects for non-armour users 14:54:37 <|amethyst> and Dex is useful for everyone 14:54:50 well, this is also a thing that differentiates int from the other stats strategically 14:54:51 <|amethyst> s/dying/going to 0 int/ 14:54:57 we do let players choose to level int or not 14:55:20 not to say that it's wrong to have other effects for int 14:55:36 but they have to be good/interesting ones, not merely for the sake of "make something use int" 14:56:11 the problem with leveling int is that it's not relevant unless you're undead, or in the post game 14:56:26 or I guess you somehow get the deterioration mutation 14:56:54 well, leveling int for purposes of stat-death prevention 14:56:54 well, not necessarily the post game 14:57:15 but orange brains don't appear for a while in the game 14:57:22 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:57:42 I don't think we really want to push the game towards leveling int for purposes of preventing 0-stat 14:57:43 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:58:31 I mean, some do that with mibe probably, but it's not really necessary given that you can quaff brill, put on an int ring or int gear, etc 14:58:45 and with xp restoring stats, there's not much to be concerned with 14:58:51 well... 14:59:00 I ran a ghwr during the tournament 14:59:16 and tried to get the six rune banner 14:59:22 except I forgot to bring sustab into the abyss 14:59:35 suffice to say I ended up with an extremely negative int stat. 14:59:45 I don't see why that's relevant, though 14:59:50 You're saying you should have leveled int? 14:59:59 It sounds like you should have use !brill or =sustat 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:18 or +int gear you kept with 15:00:18 my int was so negative that brilliance didn't bring it out of the negative :v 15:00:22 and I was wearing like 15:00:25 +8 int gear 15:00:29 that is absolutely due to player error 15:00:37 yeah I know :v 15:00:39 there's no way reasonable play got you to that condition 15:02:19 <|amethyst> I wouldn't mind quite as much if brilliance were completely useless 15:02:28 <|amethyst> for non-casters 15:02:34 <|amethyst> so it could be marked as darkgrey 15:02:53 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:13 perhaps it could not actually increase int itself, and merely be an enhancer, but that'd be a nerf to the effect 15:03:29 <|amethyst> hm 15:03:42 <|amethyst> or, I guess we could just mark it useless under Trog anyway 15:03:45 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:04:00 <|amethyst> we do mark ?random uselessness as useless even though technically it's not 15:04:09 yeah 15:04:13 <|amethyst> and probably a few other examples I'm forgetting 15:04:49 <|amethyst> the problem used to be that it was hard to override negative autopickup overrides like >useless_item 15:04:54 <|amethyst> but with \ now it's not so bad 15:05:14 <|amethyst> s/the problem/one reason to be conservative about marking things useless/ 15:05:26 ??scroll of random uselessness 15:05:27 scroll of random uselessness[1/1]: This entry used to reassemble itself in your head before 0.17! 15:05:40 i'd rather make useless really mean useless, than add more exceptions 15:05:57 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: I'd rather reduce rarity and turn it into a scroll of butterflies 15:06:00 <|amethyst> :P 15:06:02 i think the only other case other than random uselessness is enhancer staves under trog, which are still marked useless even if you have the relevant skills iirc 15:06:10 <|amethyst> MarvinPA_: err, reduce frequency 15:06:16 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 15:06:20 I actually never knew it had any usefulness. 15:06:35 it would be nice if we could remove things from default autopickup without marking them as useless 15:06:39 based on god 15:06:51 <|amethyst> johnstein: 1/8 chance to cast summon butterflies 15:07:40 <|amethyst> Medar: you can do that with an autopickup function, but then it overrides users' autopickup_exceptions 15:07:56 so I should strive to carry around 8 of them to ensure reliable butterfly summoning 15:08:01 <|amethyst> Medar: we do that with books for Trog, though I'm thinking about reverting that and letting the player decide 15:08:12 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:08:15 hmm, right 15:08:23 <|amethyst> Medar: (in the opposite direction, that is---we enable autopickup even though it's forbidden) 15:09:13 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:21 I'm going to go play a Mu and show the devs that I'm a strong independent dessicated corpse that don't need no clarity 15:09:42 I've run into issues on how to exclude fire stuff from auto pickup under dith. In particular flame arrows and bolts. I couldn't figure out how to do it via \ 15:10:01 oh, are egos even listed seperately there? 15:10:08 they are not 15:10:16 <|amethyst> johnstein: if arrows and bolts are on the default setting (grey rather than white) they will be excluded 15:10:16 bet there's a function to do it via rc file but I haven't delved into that yet 15:10:31 it should be the default 15:10:54 <|amethyst> the problem is if you want to enable pickup of all arrows except for flaming ones 15:10:56 altough if you are already holding some, then more will be picked up because they stack 15:11:01 <|amethyst> you need an autopickup_exception for that 15:11:05 ah, right 15:11:14 is default the + or -? guessing + is white and - is grey? 15:11:21 <|amethyst> johnstein: there are three states 15:11:40 <|amethyst> johnstein: white +, white -, and grey + or - (depending on what the default is for unbranded items of that type) 15:11:41 I never knew that. 15:11:53 ok I will check that out tonight 15:11:58 <|amethyst> johnstein: it's somewhat better now (in 0.18) because the normal keys toggle through all three 15:12:11 oh it's newish? 15:12:17 <|amethyst> johnstein: it used to be that you had to press ctrl-d to get back to the default state 15:12:27 <|amethyst> which no one knew about except the people who implemented it :) 15:12:34 yea I agree it's a lot better if the normal keys do it 15:12:36 <|amethyst> and those who read the help screen, but who does that :) 15:12:47 * dpeg raises a hand 15:13:01 I've had a lot of bad experience with help screens 15:13:03 johnstein: they bit you? 15:13:06 <|amethyst> dpeg likes "those reading games" 15:13:15 they are great for reference but often horrible for newbies to learn the typical commands 15:13:24 <|amethyst> and our help screens do tend to get out-of-date 15:13:46 * dpeg wonders if "reading the bible" is a synonym for intercourse also in languages than German 15:14:13 seeing a man page that shows you dozens of options but no guidance on "oh, 90% of the time just do this one" is really intimidating. 15:14:25 Tell me one Crawl help screen which is horrible for newbies! I've read the Nethack manual from start to finish, and I lived to tell the tale. 15:14:42 this isn't a critique of crawl. my youngest brother finally started playing and was really impressed with the help screens 15:14:48 johnstein: yes, unix man pages are somehow for engineers, not for users, I am afraid 15:14:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: ?? (key list) 15:15:26 x-v especially is great these days. 15:15:32 |amethyst: I was the one who started it. What is bad about it? Should more obscure commands be moved to the back? We tried to section it in a way that makes some sense. 15:15:36 esp the X-v functionality now 15:15:47 <|amethyst> dpeg: it's fine for a reference sheet 15:16:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: I don't think there's much that can be done to make it both useful as a reference sheet and as a newbie guide 15:16:13 -!- dacendoran has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:21 <|amethyst> dpeg: rather, would need two screens (and maybe ! to toggle) 15:16:44 |amethyst: we have just recently scrapped the quickstart.pdf I made ages ago to help hapless newbies. I'd love to know how many people ever read or even printed that thing. 15:16:58 |amethyst: yes, agree with that 15:17:25 I've found that 1 on 1 coaching seems to work the best. but obviously that's not possible for most 15:17:30 |amethyst: do you mind me mentioning your sympathy for clarity->!brilliance on forum? (You don't frequent it, right?) 15:17:54 <|amethyst> dpeg: I do visit tavern sometimes 15:18:01 obviously we need Coach Donald to guide you through a more expansive tutorial 15:18:07 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: I think though that I'm mostly in agreement with gammafunk 15:18:28 <|amethyst> dpeg: that clarity isn't as good an effect for that as something like MR+ 15:18:28 johnstein: yes, I know. It helps to tie the victim/culprit/newbie to a chair and occasionally crack a whip. 15:18:34 <|amethyst> dpeg: because of its binary nature 15:18:54 |amethyst: ah, I see. Still would make a good comment there :) 15:20:19 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:20:37 dpeg: I read the quickstart when I first started!! 15:20:48 (but I did not print it) 15:22:37 <|amethyst> posted 15:23:30 I started around 0.11 and when a buddy saw me doing the tutorial they told me to stop and just coached me through the first 5 or so levels 15:23:58 <|amethyst> I read guides on the wiki! 15:24:21 I read the wiki 15:24:24 <|amethyst> I won my first game in my first month with the help of one of those badwiki guides 15:24:40 <}> |amethyst, did it tell you go to chei 15:24:47 yeah I came from nethack, so I expected the wiki would be really good; it was helpful overall 15:24:49 <|amethyst> }: no, even better 15:24:52 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:55 <|amethyst> }: DDNe of Kiku 15:24:55 I didn't read any guides really 15:25:20 .cobbed 15:25:21 105. Medar the Grand Gadgeteer (L24 DDWn of Pakellas), starved to death on Zot:2 (grunt_ministairs_10) on 2016-01-04 20:22:57, with 526837 points after 52423 turns and 4:40:21. 15:25:23 my brother (above) won his first game in a couple days with some minimal coaching and the current crawl in-game help (and some learndb on the side) 15:25:28 finally forgot those were a thing :P 15:25:28 good one medar 15:25:35 <|amethyst> "You could go with makhleb, but Kiku will give you powerful magic, that's much better than demon summoning" 15:25:40 it wasn't intentional?! 15:25:54 I just didn't pay any attention 15:26:01 <}> I almost won with the help of the "extended tutoria", the one that makes you go mibe 15:26:02 rip 15:26:09 <|amethyst> (the game in question doesn't count of course, because it's offline) 15:26:10 -!- ZanniqlcKzxkq is now known as Zannick 15:26:16 <}> i mean the in game thing 15:26:19 !gamesuntilwin Almightybob 15:26:21 <}> it is very well done 15:26:21 Almightybob had 4 games before their first win. 15:26:28 we know that neil probably played a version of crawl he hacked to have meleebug 15:26:33 it was kinda unreal 15:26:37 <|amethyst> here we go: http://s-z.org/neil/crawl/DDNe-Kiku-WIN-2011-07-13.txt 15:26:42 We have no proof but we have our suspictions! 15:26:47 <|amethyst> w - the +0,+5 falchion of Wiwkaur {holy, Str+1 Dex+2} 15:26:52 <|amethyst> was my weapon for most of the game 15:27:01 shield of Vlad 15:27:37 ebering: wow, nice to hear :) 15:27:51 dpeg: that's the one that says 'try an axe, axes are fun', right? 15:28:10 that line sticks out in my mind as the true invitation to crawl 15:28:36 I think crawl got me when I read the wiki page about ocs 15:28:45 <|amethyst> I managed to win (both that and my first online win) because Twisted Resurrection was insanely powerful 15:28:46 they just seemed like a really interesting monster 15:29:03 ebering: that's a line I've inherited from some old txt file... it might have been typed by Linley Himself! 15:29:03 <|amethyst> and I wasn't really aware of how tedious it was 15:29:10 does paralysed by fainting not add a note? 15:29:24 oh, does paralysis in general add notes? 15:29:29 didn't realize it did, but that makes sense 15:29:34 <|amethyst> so was perfectly willing to make several trips combined with tw and tt to ferry aboms across stairs 15:29:48 gammafunk: it does, tells how many turns it was 15:30:07 quickstart.txt really should be updated though 15:30:28 Medar: yeah, would be nice if it did for fainting, although para from zerk exhaustion should probably be excluded 15:30:28 <}> no one else here used "hints mode for dungeon crawl" in game when starting to learn crawl? 15:30:36 I played one hints game 15:30:36 I didn't, no 15:30:52 <}> i think it might be the best in game tutorial of any roguelike I've seen 15:30:57 a lot of people started online and it no servers have it yet 15:30:58 I only played crawl after reading an LP :v 15:31:17 ironically, i only started playing crawl after reading a nethack lp 15:31:20 <|amethyst> I always, rightly or not, think of those as "So, I see you have never played a roguelike." 15:31:46 <|amethyst> or "classical roguelike" or whatever 15:32:12 I forgot if we asked about tutorial use in that survey 15:32:14 <|amethyst> those = tutorial or hints modes 15:35:21 <}> I've played roguelikes before crawl, but it's a big game with a lot going on, hints mode helped a lot 15:35:43 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:35:57 <|amethyst> it certainly helped that I had played both angband and nethack 15:37:15 <}> have you ever won angband? 15:37:22 <|amethyst> no 15:37:27 <}> me neither :( 15:37:32 <|amethyst> I save-scummed a zangband "win" 15:38:12 <|amethyst> I hadn't initially intended to save-scum, but I was getting a lot of crashes so had to back up my saves 15:38:24 <|amethyst> so when I died I figured "might as well, I already have the save" 15:38:40 <|amethyst> just to see what the rest of the game looked like 15:39:06 -!- meatpath has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:13 <}> I did that with red-rogue, it has several endings, but I wasnt bothered to play honestly through multiple times, so "won" by save scumming 15:40:53 <|amethyst> my wife is playing a Final Fantasy-like right now (Doom & Destiny) 15:41:07 <|amethyst> she gets annoyed when I nag her about save-scumming 15:41:17 <|amethyst> she's all like "but that's how you're supposed to play" 15:41:32 <|amethyst> and I'm all like "here's a nickel, kid, go compile yourself a real game" 15:41:40 <|amethyst> then she's all like "I want a divorce" 15:41:53 <}> heh 15:41:57 just got too real 15:42:00 <}> I have a sudden urge to read dilbert 15:42:11 !source godwrath.cc:867 15:42:11 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc#l867 15:42:33 shouldn't that have BASELINE_DELAY? 15:42:57 *be multiplied by 15:44:47 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:24 Excuse me, how do I find which /(number} key corresponds to Insert in Crawl macros? 15:45:38 This doesn't seem to be covered by '?~' help. 15:45:51 <|amethyst> somebody: start making a macro for that key then cancel 15:46:03 <|amethyst> somebody: e.g. ctrl-d m then press insert 15:46:13 |amethyst: Ah, thanks! 15:46:15 <|amethyst> that should show something like: Input macro trigger key: \{-331} 15:46:24 <|amethyst> then press escape so you don't actually macro it 15:46:53 <|amethyst> note that it might differ between console and webtiles 15:47:05 <|amethyst> or even between different browsers in webtiles, though I hope not 15:47:29 <|amethyst> and would differ yet again for local tiles 15:47:39 <|amethyst> depending on the key, anyway 15:47:42 OK, I can live with that. 15:52:19 -!- Tilogour has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:52:43 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:53:07 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 15:54:07 |amethyst: Thanks. 15:56:16 unknown monster: "holy pig" 15:56:16 <}> %??holy pig 15:56:24 <}> oops 15:56:59 }: i played a hints MiBe, after playing the tutorial 15:57:30 or whatever the hints Be is. i think it was Mi 15:57:50 <}> amalloy, yay, found another hints player :) 15:58:45 got a lot further on that run than i did for many runs to come 15:59:40 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:56 i wish i'd been playing online all along, so i could find the replays and stuff. like i remember i had one game where i hadn't discovered branches yet, and just cleared D until i ran into the depths stair-guards and was murdered 15:59:59 03Medar02 07* 0.18-a0-994-g645d2a7: Fix Trog wrath paralysis always being 1 turn. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/645d2a7bd17c 15:59:59 03Medar02 07* 0.18-a0-995-gd892ad2: Add a note if paralysed due to fainting or Trog wrath. 10(18 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d892ad225e12 16:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:07 those should probably use player::paralyse with added force parameter or something 16:01:40 that would also set props["paralysed_by"] so the death message shows the reason 16:03:18 !lg . 1 -tv:>:channel=amalloy 16:03:19 1/365. amalloy, XL3 FeIE, T:2342 requested for amalloy: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:03:33 !lg . 1 -tv:>:channel=amalloy:cancel 16:03:33 1/365. amalloy, XL3 FeIE, T:2342 cancel requested for amalloy: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:03:40 !lg . 1 -tv:>:channel=amalloy:x4 16:03:41 1/365. amalloy, XL3 FeIE, T:2342 requested for amalloy: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 16:03:45 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04:40 <}> amalloy, I remember the first time I got to vampire mosquitos, I was sure those are end game enemies 16:04:43 <}> and way too OP! 16:05:01 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:05:28 honestly this play doesn't look too bad 16:06:26 lol nm 16:06:34 worms OP 16:06:51 dying to a worm as Fe. too sad 16:08:52 chequers: my latest comborobin series would make you so sad. spent like 25 minutes on D:4 (mostly because the gnoll fortress just had so much stuff to kill) 16:09:00 }: I also played some hints mode way back, if that's any consolation. 16:09:06 <}> :) 16:11:15 allocate at least 4 hours to clear gnoll fortress 16:11:42 <}> ??comborobin 16:11:42 comborobin[1/3]: A project to win every char combo. The only rule is that you can't play something that has already been won on this account. To see how its doing, type: !lg comborobin won x=cdist(char) 16:11:52 gammafunk: i got an OOD spawn. the first i can remember ever getting. a wolf spider on D:4! 16:11:57 nice 16:12:02 !lg comborobin won s=char ?: N>1 16:12:03 30 games for comborobin (won): 2x MuSu, 2x VSWn, 2x MiAr, 2x SpAr, 2x TrAK, 2x VpAs, 2x DgAs, 2x MiGl, 2x HOWz, 2x HOSk, 2x OpGl, 2x DDFi, 2x DsAM, 2x DECj, 2x MfWn 16:12:08 disgusting 16:12:10 sure it wasn't an ood vault? 16:12:10 -!- bleak has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:14 yeah 16:12:36 !lg comborobin won s=cv 16:12:37 514 games for comborobin (won): 308x 0.17-a, 77x 0.16, 63x 0.17, 48x 0.18-a, 15x 0.15, 2x 0.10, 0.13 16:12:39 it was from an area i'd cleared already. and any vault that would put a wolf spider on D:4 should be removed 16:12:39 !comborobin 16:12:41 comborobin progress: 497/615 (80%) 16:12:51 @?? wolf spider 16:12:52 wolf spider (00s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 11 | HP: 45-65 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 25, 1508(poison:22-44) | web sense | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 567 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 16:12:54 @?? killer bee 16:12:54 killer bee (07y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 3 | HP: 13-19 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 1008(poison:6-12) | fly | Res: 06magic(10) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 62 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 16:13:03 hrm, wonder if an 8 can roll wolf spider 16:13:05 I bet it can 16:13:12 a wolf spider on d4 doesn't sound significantly more dangerous than a pack of bees on d3 16:13:13 on d:4, I mean 16:13:20 probably less so 16:13:26 yeah I'd not say it's grounds for removal 16:13:29 really 16:13:36 maybe i am overestimating wolf spiders 16:14:26 literally no one has ever died to a wolf spider!!! it's all spark wasps 16:14:45 !lg * killer=wolf_spider s=place 16:14:46 it's spark wasps all the way down... 16:14:46 3524 games for * (killer=wolf_spider): 548x Spider:1, 316x Spider:5, 295x Spider:2, 242x Spider:4, 227x Spider, 223x Spider:3, 192x Lair:8, 149x Lair:3, 130x D:10, 111x D:11, 108x Lair:4, 96x D:12, 82x Lair:1, 77x D:8, 77x D:9, 65x Lair:5, 58x Lair:6, 53x D:13, 53x Lair:2, 48x D:7, 41x D:1, 39x D:14, 39x D:15, 33x D:6, 22x D:17, 18x Lair:7, 18x Vaults:1, 16x D:16, 16x Abyss:1, 15x D:2, 14x D:5, 10... 16:14:54 d:1 16:14:57 good wolf spider 16:15:07 !lg * killer=wolf_spider place=d:1 -log 16:15:08 41. blexxed, XL3 MuWz, T:6900: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/blexxed/morgue-blexxed-20151126-052914.txt 16:15:12 mu, of course 16:15:22 !lg * killer=wolf_spider place=d:1 s=race 16:15:22 41 games for * (killer=wolf_spider place=d:1): 29x Mummy, 3x Octopode, 2x Demonspawn, 2x Vampire, Kobold, Felid, White Draconian, Djinni, Gargoyle 16:15:32 no formicids? dang 16:15:40 was hoping an old -rPois Fo would get one 16:15:50 Apparently, I can't make a macro for repeating Sif Muna's Channel Energy ability, since Insert would only repeat one-key commands. 16:15:51 but they can shaft, impossible to die 16:15:52 and die to the poison, not the melee 16:15:55 tru 16:15:55 Or I'm missing something. 16:16:18 somebody: "repeating"? just hit aa once, then ` to repeat 16:16:36 amalloy: I mean, something like ten times, with one key stroke. 16:16:51 well you could make a macro of aa repeated 10 times 16:16:58 ~m+010aa 16:17:22 as much as I love sif channel 16:17:25 gammafunk: I wanted to make use of Insert's "Stop repeating if anything bad happens" thing. 16:17:29 I think this macro would be too powerful even for me 16:17:36 ~maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 16:17:37 !blame3n 2 aa 16:17:38 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 16:17:54 somebody: 010 will stop repeating if bad things happen. what the heck does insert do? 16:17:58 My exact reaction when my MuSu sees a hydra in lair 16:18:04 ??insert 16:18:04 insert ~ inert[1/1]: Your miscellanous evocable needs XP to charge. 16:18:11 good sequell 16:18:19 my first reaction is to put up a lightning spire 16:18:26 and grab my share of free exp 16:18:45 amalloy: It repeats a command a set number of times. 16:18:56 oh I'm joking, but yeah it's ice beasts + spire 16:19:22 somebody: so, have you tried ~m+010aa yet? is there some reason you don't want to do that? 16:19:57 you probably want to want to put \{13} at the end 16:20:00 -!- FiftyNine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:20:04 unless you want to hit enter manually 16:20:08 ha 16:20:21 gammafunk: Relax, I had my INT drained to -20 or something dumb like that on one of my 15-rune wins in Pandemonium 16:20:29 wait i'm not sure i get it 16:20:35 relax? 16:20:41 I don't get 'relax' 16:21:02 sure you do. right about now in fact... (ET) 16:21:07 ok, a minute ago >.> 16:21:14 I mean you played terribly, and so did CanOfWorms 16:21:36 Usually the punishment for this is death, but crawl is poor at enforcing this, what can we say 16:21:57 introduce more bees 16:22:00 preferably in D 16:22:04 nobody dies in depths anyway 16:22:13 kvaak: wolf spider with a band of killer bees? 16:22:17 kvaak: I was in Pandemonium 16:22:17 replace depths with hive 16:22:24 amalloy: It doesn't seem to do anything to me. 16:22:28 I killed my way to positive intelligence 16:22:31 The trigger for macro is '+', right? 16:22:34 now that we have spark wasps hive might actually be a reasonable branch again!!! 16:22:34 somebody: it sets + to a macro that hits aa 10 times 16:22:35 well extended is dumb 16:22:39 it's beyond redemption 16:22:57 Beyond Redemption: Extended 16:23:01 a new DCSS spinoff 16:23:03 and caustic.... bees 16:23:32 !log . rune=15 16:23:33 Unknown field: rune 16:23:38 nrune 16:23:39 !log . nrune=15 16:23:40 5. darkli, XL27 HOBe, T:95928: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/morgue-darkli-20150930-084933.txt 16:23:49 nice, 3 int 16:23:59 "Really eat t - an uncursed ring of teleportation {!*}?" 16:24:01 !log . nrune=15 -2 16:24:02 4/5. darkli, XL27 DEFE, T:146647: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/morgue-darkli-20150728-031602.txt 16:24:04 !log . nrune=15 -3 16:24:05 Something went terribly right. 16:24:05 3/5. darkli, XL27 HOBe, T:124909: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/darkli/morgue-darkli-20150526-080157.txt 16:24:51 I always enjoy those discussions of game mechanics and whether they work where someone just randomly drops a bunch of example games 16:24:57 and no explanation as to how they're relevant 16:25:06 I wonder, what happens if I press 'Y' now. 16:25:19 well it's supposed to. it doesn't seem to work in my wizmode game. i wonder why 16:25:24 -!- agentgt has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:12 http://i.imgur.com/S1XZaFz.png 16:26:24 Alas, I cannot eat my ring of teleportation. 16:26:29 kvaak: were you giving some reason why ~m+010aa won't work? 16:26:36 I thought I'd get some intrinsics out of it! 16:26:38 it seems to me like it should but i guess i don't get it 16:27:57 Nope, sorry. '~m+r010aa\{13}' does not do anything after I save it and press '+'. 16:28:03 amalloy: it works but you have to hit enter manually if you don''t add \{13} at the end 16:28:52 kvaak: Riiiight, so is my game a special case in that it doesn't get me anything out of '~m+010aa\{13}'? 16:28:56 kvaak: hit enter when? 010aa doesn't require you to press enter if it's not macro'd 16:29:16 somebody: no, it doesn't work for me either but i don't get why 16:29:20 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:34 somebody: try just 010aa 16:29:43 should channel 10 times immediately, rather than define a macro to do it 16:29:54 and then the question is why you can't set a macro to it 16:30:05 -!- nimitz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:47 amalloy: if you don't press enter doesn't it just stay at the "repeat what?" prompt 16:30:52 no 16:31:20 a takes you to the ability screen, and then the second a channels once, and then it knows your turn is over so the command to repeat is over 16:31:27 so it does aa 9 more times 16:31:32 kay then 16:31:35 I don't use 0 16:31:38 amalloy: It says "No missiles available...", if I press '0 16:31:47 not ' 16:31:55 oh 16:32:00 that string was to go into a macros file 16:32:03 it's not a typeable 16:32:04 No, I don't literally press the key to the left of Enter. 16:32:09 Ah! 16:32:21 geekosaur: no, my intention is that ~m+010aa is typeable 16:32:28 OK, I don't actually have a macros.txt file, since webtiles. 16:32:35 hm 16:32:39 when i type it it defines a macro, but that macro just doesn't work 16:32:48 amalloy: Yeah, same here. 16:33:03 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:18 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:22 somebody: ) would print "no missiles available" - 0 never should 16:33:25 funny ##crawl-dev :) 16:34:02 dpeg: "Really eat t - an uncursed ring of teleportation {!*}?" 16:34:04 I love that line. 16:34:21 amalloy: I don't know, it prints that if I press zero. 16:35:11 Correct reply: "You are not a xorn." 16:35:39 Yeah. 16:35:40 Here: an xorn 16:37:15 There isn't anything really fancy in my rc file, either. 16:38:38 it seems like you just can't use 0 from a macro, bizarrely 16:38:38 ttants: xorn, xom 16:39:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 16:39:19 How do I clear macros? Pressing ']' keeps asking me whether I _really_ want to eat that ring of teleportation. 16:39:40 amalloy: I tried to use that with 9 repetitions, still didn't work. 16:41:22 somebody: ~m]c 16:41:53 what happens if you macro ~ and ctrl+d 16:43:19 amalloy: That doesn't do anything, since the game thinks it's already cleared. 16:43:31 kvaak: rip 16:43:46 But pressing ']' still gives me a prompt about having to enter a number of times to repeat. 16:43:54 Maybe my game is literally haunted. 16:47:33 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:12 <|amethyst> kvaak: you'd also have to macro away * 16:49:21 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:34 <|amethyst> kvaak: or you could do *d (even if d and ctrl-d are both macroed away it seems) 16:49:52 aw 16:50:17 |amethyst: Is there a fool-proof way to clear macros anyway? 16:50:19 <|amethyst> hm 16:50:27 Since ']' is there anyway, taunting me and reminding me of my failure. 16:50:34 <|amethyst> somebody: c should do it, but... are you playing offline or on? 16:50:42 I'm on CLAN. 16:51:09 <|amethyst> somebody: one possibility is maybe you have a keymap and not just a macro 16:51:15 <|amethyst> somebody: but the easiest way 16:51:16 somebody: the simplest way would be to just logout 16:51:24 and then say "no" when it asks you to save macros 16:51:34 <|amethyst> or if it already got saved 16:51:43 <|amethyst> if you log in with ssh, you can edit macros from the menu 16:51:52 <|amethyst> &rc somebody 16:51:54 http://underhound.eu:81/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-git/Somebody.rc 16:52:04 <|amethyst> http://underhound.eu:81/crawl/rcfiles/crawl-git/Somebody.macro 16:52:05 <|amethyst> aha 16:52:11 <|amethyst> you do have a key map rather than a macro 16:52:16 |amethyst: A! Yes, I do. 16:52:19 <|amethyst> two of them, in different modes 16:52:23 I set it before I figured out the difference. 16:53:10 |amethyst: That did it, thank you. 16:55:16 I guess I am entitled to open a bug about it? 16:55:38 about 0 not working in macros? 16:56:26 No, about not being able to assign Sif's channeling to a macro. 16:56:49 That thing doesn't work for me even if I use 9 times, not "010". 16:57:08 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:57:33 ~m+aa doesn't work? 16:57:35 that works for me 16:58:02 Let me double-check. 16:58:26 i don't know what "9 times" you mean that's different from the 0 mechanism, but i can't do anything multiple times from a macro, whereas i can do sif channeling 16:58:50 OK, '~m+aa' does work. 16:59:03 I guess I was not precise about what I'm trying to do. 16:59:15 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:17 Can I use Insert "repeat command" thing in a macro? 16:59:30 That what I was trying to do. 16:59:42 i have no idea what insert does, but i presume it is the same mechanism as 0, and that is what seems to not work 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:11 <|amethyst> you can't use ` in a macro either 17:00:12 Yeah, it's "repeat command" number of times. 17:00:17 <|amethyst> there you actually get a message 17:00:22 <|amethyst> "Can't re-do previous command from within a macro." 17:00:36 <|amethyst> the problem is that ` (and 0) works on a whole macro 17:00:38 Ah, well, that one doesn't get any intilligeble messages. 17:00:49 there has been trouble with repetition commands since Matthew (?) coded them, IIRC. 17:00:50 OK, I got what I was trying to figure out. 17:00:51 <|amethyst> and if it were nested things would get confused 17:00:59 <|amethyst> you can of course do 17:01:03 <|amethyst> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 17:01:10 <|amethyst> but then you repeat too much 17:01:56 Hmm. So let me clarify, if I set '~m+aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa' and something approaches and starts to eat my character in the middle of that, will it stop reapeting the command? 17:02:01 the interface worries indicate a problem with the design, btw 17:02:17 <|amethyst> somebody: I don't believe it will, at least by default 17:02:22 -!- simples has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:38 <|amethyst> there may be an (undocumented) way to make specific things interrupt macros? 17:02:52 Ah, so that's a reason why I wouldn't do it. :P 17:02:58 <|amethyst> but that would apply to all macros, including tab 17:03:03 Getting accidentally eaten why I'm using a macro seems inconvenient. 17:03:12 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:18 Yeah, this is the reason why I was trying to involved Insert. 17:03:32 It interrupts repetition, like '5', if you get hungry or are attacked. 17:03:32 <|amethyst> dpeg: yeah, the problem is the underlying design and implementation, not the UI 17:04:31 <|amethyst> I guess theoretically it would be possible to have two different kind of repetition delays 17:05:36 <|amethyst> but that seems kind of hackish (and limited: you couldn't make a macro do Tab 10 times, since tab itself is a macro), when what you really want is for them to be fully nestable 17:05:47 Well, I have hope! I got the ability to auto-map inventory and ability things. 17:07:16 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:07:25 |amethyst: I mean the design of MP regain in general, and of channeling in particular, not that of macros 17:07:31 <|amethyst> oh 17:08:24 OK, thanks everyone. I hopefully won't bother you anymore tonight. 17:10:29 <|amethyst> somebody: would you mind filing a bug report that '0' in a macro doesn't give an error message the way '`' does? 17:11:04 |amethyst: I would, but then I am also going to make a feature-request that you can't put Insert into macros. Would you be OK with that? 17:11:08 :) 17:11:51 -!- Nyvrem has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:12:16 <|amethyst> somebody: it would probably be closed as not fixable :) 17:12:16 wait, somebody won't bother anyone anymore? 17:12:20 I'm so confused... 17:12:25 <|amethyst> somebody: 0 and insert are the same thing btw 17:12:54 if nobody bothers somebody, is anyone bothered? 17:13:16 <|amethyst> who's on first? 17:13:23 |amethyst: Ah. Okay, objection's withdrawn. 17:14:36 gammafunk: Probably not, I am a rather friendly foo-body. 17:14:59 A foo comes into view. You feel vaguely bothered. 17:16:31 -!- roadmap has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:27 -!- somebody has left ##crawl-dev 17:19:23 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:23:26 -!- zhaorenw has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:28:48 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:29:15 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:29:31 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:30:26 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:35 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:35:23 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:08 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:42:30 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50:11 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:37 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:26 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:41 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:57:16 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:04 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:49 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:21 .gfgk -2 18:06:22 69/70. battery the Bludgeoner (L17 FoFi of Cheibriados), slain by a stone giant in WizLab (wizlab_lehudib) on 2016-01-03 22:56:39, with 120740 points after 27845 turns and 1:00:47. 18:06:25 .gfgk -2 x=src 18:06:26 69/70. [src=cszo] battery the Bludgeoner (L17 FoFi of Cheibriados), slain by a stone giant in WizLab (wizlab_lehudib) on 2016-01-03 22:56:39, with 120740 points after 27845 turns and 1:00:47. 18:06:33 -!- lewdmeister has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:45 .moon name=battery -tv:channel=moon:>$ 18:06:46 1. battery, XL16 FoFi, T:26408 (milestone) requested for moon: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 18:06:59 .gfgk 18:07:00 70. comborobin the Sensei (L19 DgSu), hit from afar by a stone giant (large rock) in WizLab (wizlab_lehudib) on 2016-01-04 22:32:32, with 275836 points after 49693 turns and 1:36:00. 18:10:09 LordSloth (L14 MiFi) ASSERT(shop) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2205 failed. (Lair:3) 18:10:36 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.18-a0-995-gd892ad2 (34) 18:10:40 .moon name=comborobin -tv:channel=moon:>$ 18:10:41 26. comborobin, XL18 DgSu, T:48438 (milestone) requested for moon: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 18:12:08 LordSloth (L14 MiFi) ASSERT(shop) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2205 failed. (Lair:3) 18:13:01 !lm lordsloth crash -log 18:13:02 18. LordSloth, XL14 MiFi, T:22800 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/LordSloth/crash-LordSloth-20160104-231158.txt 18:17:17 -!- Cerpin has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:20:18 -!- pedritolo has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 18:24:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:25:41 LordSloth (L14 MiFi) ASSERT(shop) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2205 failed. (D:7) 18:27:56 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:07 Adding to Shopping List remotely bugs location, crash upon purchase 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10225 by LordSloth 18:28:08 -!- TZer0 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 18:28:12 somehow he has an item in a shop on lair:3 in his shopping list? 18:28:34 ah, i see 18:29:47 the funny thing is, i think this probably happened in the past if you added to the shopping list remotely 18:29:57 but that was so much of a pain in the ass i guess nobody did 18:30:23 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:28 oh, never mind 18:30:30 this is my fault 18:31:13 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 18:31:47 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:50 i guess this will need yet another version tag :/ 18:31:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:33:40 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:08 oh, maybe not 18:35:09 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:45 !messages 18:38:46 No messages for TZer0. 18:41:28 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 18:41:36 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:43:01 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 18:45:17 i think adding to shopping list remotely used to work. i'm pretty sure i did it 18:45:58 yeah, hence "oh, never mind" 18:47:09 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:55:37 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 18:59:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:02:39 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:04:17 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:10:01 LordSloth: thanks a ton for the detailed bug report! 19:10:04 03wheals02 07* 0.18-a0-996-ga5a3983: Fix remote shopping list use (#10225). 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 36+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a5a3983657b6 19:10:38 LordSloth: that should fix it in the future, but i suspect it will continue to crash if you don't delete the old entries with the wrong location 19:14:38 -!- jolamb_ is now known as jolamb 19:15:33 welcomwheals 19:15:38 I deleted the old entries 19:16:24 -!- ByronJoh1son has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:59 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:15 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:42 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:06 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:07 Nausicaa (L9 OgHu) ASSERT(shop) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2205 failed. (D:4) 19:28:31 Nausicaa (L9 OgHu) ASSERT(shop) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2205 failed. (D:4) 19:28:47 Nausicaa (L9 OgHu) ASSERT(shop) in 'shopping.cc' at line 2205 failed. (D:4) 19:32:19 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:36:17 -!- LordSloth has left ##crawl-dev 19:37:02 -!- pedritolo has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 19:39:17 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:41:46 !tell archeo You ruined my awesome "Litmus" joke! This is unforgivable :) 19:41:47 Sorry dpeg, I don't know who archeo is. 19:41:57 !tell archaeo You ruined my awesome "Litmus" joke! This is unforgivable :) 19:41:57 dpeg: OK, I'll let archaeo know. 19:46:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:08 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:47 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:16 -!- WorkSight has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:09:05 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:09:26 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:14:46 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:08 for pull requests each commit from the source forked branch is committed separately in the main crawl repo. I just did a merge request in gitlab and it committed a single merge commit, not the individual commits. stackoverflow says pull requests and merge requests are the same. is the crawl repo doing something special? or is this something probably I'm doing wrong on my end? 20:15:46 not sure if there's a github config setting crawl is using 20:16:31 i think it's more a thing with the way Cheibriados is set up 20:16:31 welcomewheals 20:16:37 welcomegammafunk 20:16:48 andgoodtiming 20:16:57 ((wheals)) 20:17:05 has to be better ascii art for a wheel than that 20:18:23 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:18:26 ⍟ 20:18:30 johnstein: probably nothing special is happening, but you're misunderstanding something. a merge commit necessarily has pointers to all of its parent commits; gitlab may just be showing the tree differently than github shows it, but the tree should be the same 20:20:00 amalloy: ok. I'll look into it in more detail tomorrow. was kind of annoyed to see "Merged i154-my-issue into repo/master" in the commit listing, instead of my commit message for they underlying commit 20:20:05 Do we still think Int is the dominating stat? (sorry this is not about git nor wheels) 20:20:55 -!- Mordru has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:00 * johnstein never considered int as a dominating stat but has only recently started delving into non pure melee-focused builds 20:21:13 i don't know what is meant by dominating stat 20:21:15 Because if we don't, then we could approach bcadren's https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18749 (proposes to give clarity to !brilliance) by making confusion pass an Int check 20:21:37 why do we need to approach it at all? 20:21:38 amalloy: there was a time when everyone and their granny told people to raise Int, unless Trog 20:21:49 Grunt: I think it's a nifty idea. 20:21:54 not every character is going to be spellcasting 20:21:58 that sounds like a pretty bad fix, dpeg. it doesn't help meleedudes at all, and makes conf irrelevant to casters 20:22:16 yes, quite right 20:22:19 yeah int is usually not raised if you're not using spells extensively 20:22:38 anyway, I still think ^ is a good idea... the main objection I've seen is that clarity is binary 20:22:52 dpeg: the advice i usually hear is to raise mostly int if you are a heavy conjurer, mostly dex otherwise; and str only if you need to wear heavier armour 20:23:16 I think giving clarity is a bad idea as opposed to giving MR 20:23:26 amalloy: I feel this is oversimplifying matters but that could be wishful thinking 20:23:28 confused can already can be counteracted by a potion 20:23:48 well sure, it is an oversimplification. you asked what advice people usually give about stats, and that's what i've seen 20:23:57 optimal play is more nuanced 20:23:58 amalloy: yes, that is true, of course 20:24:32 gammafunk: yes, that is also a good idea: I had characters that were MR starved, and being able to go into fights with MR from brilliance would've been welcome 20:25:03 not saying that it's actually necessary to change brilliance 20:25:38 only objection I could imagine to that: Magic *Resistance* belong on !resistance, not !brilliance but that's for nitpickers :) 20:25:42 yea. making !brill give the same MR as Trog's Hand, ++, would make it interesting. I don't quite get the theme, but I know that comes second 20:26:07 I personally think it's ok if some potions are useful for some characters and not others 20:26:08 johnstein: MR itself is ill-worded 20:26:18 i sometimes have to check !resist to remind myself if it includes MR 20:26:46 i think it would be cool if there were such a potion, and it would be nice to make !brill work for all characters, but i'm not sure the obvious approach of "add MR to !brill" is great 20:26:48 gammafunk: yes, of course, but more choices is desirable 20:27:38 gammafunk: I'm of two minds of that. I don't relish the idea of having to consider even more items for dropping myself below the item limit. but !brill^MR++ sounds like an interesting choice 20:28:07 amalloy: I think a new potion for that effect is bad, we already have so many consumables. The analogy probably (this is not my idea) goes like this: Dex gives a defensive power, and Str is more broadly useful than Int (imo), so giving Brilliance a secondary effect seems good 20:29:11 Well the ways that Str is broadly useful is by lowering penalties for casting from armour, at least I think that's what you'r ereferring to 20:29:23 could also make !magic give MR and it's probably an easier change to grok 20:29:24 but this is not really different from a wizardry effect from brilliance 20:29:37 oh i just remembered, donald says to ely worshippers "you should probably start praying now". this is because divine protection used to be a pray effect, right? so i think this should either be removed or reworded to make sense with the (a)bility 20:30:36 and somewhat targets one of the "issues" with !brill (that it's not very useful for non-casters) 20:30:37 gammafunk: also everyone has some weapon in hand to be used in melee 20:31:28 amalloy: "Are you able to pray now? You should." ? 20:31:49 a lot of people don't do that, esp when playing Cj. or gammafunk's Su speedruns, i bet he can rarely survive tabbing with so little experience 20:31:49 Well everyone has to a have a spell memorized to be used to cast 20:32:09 I'm not sure if wielding is relevant to how broadly useful !might is 20:32:20 Maybe it is, but I don't see how really 20:32:21 <|amethyst> how many games were won where no one made a melee attack? 20:32:28 i have one 20:32:30 <|amethyst> s/no one/the player/ 20:32:36 but it was awful 20:32:38 <|amethyst> and how many where the player never cast a spell? 20:32:53 -!- LordSloth has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:15 what do these examples show? 20:33:27 the point is that "pure caster" is really a handicap: you should have some weapon, for when MP runs out or things go wrong. And in this emergency, even !might could help. It's not really the other way around with "pure fighters". 20:33:33 <|amethyst> that bonuses to melee are applicable to more characters than bonuses to magic 20:33:42 But I mentioned that idea twice now, and consider my duty done. 20:34:19 dpeg: i totally agree with that: !might is useful to more characters than !brill 20:34:21 <|amethyst> particularly something like might that is a flat bonus 20:34:49 although i wouldn't say the weapon is for when MP runs out or things go wrong: it's for when things are easy enough you don't need to waste MP 20:34:52 <|amethyst> since that is a bigger (relative) help to bad-at-melee characters, as long as they don't have a slow weapon 20:35:34 whoever said "MR++ on !magic": that is indeed a similar effect, as !magic is mostly useful to casters (I know about "GS etc.), and giving that additional purpose sounds good to me 20:35:54 <|amethyst> the problem I see with MR on !magic is that !magic is currently instantaneous 20:36:00 yeah 20:36:19 |amethyst: and that should stay: HP : MP = !hw : !magic 20:37:11 whoever = me! 20:37:38 yay :) 20:37:39 The discussion was that Str is broadly useful 20:37:44 |amethyst: and yea, the instantaneous part seemed a bit problematic 20:37:48 but str isn't terribly broadly useful 20:38:17 the effect of might is broadly useful because of the added damage 20:38:18 gammafunk: I used Str = "the effects that the strength-boosting potion gives" 20:38:21 <|amethyst> oh, I agree that str is less broadly useful than the rest of !might 20:38:56 well it's not the strenght boosting portions that make the potion useful in the way you mean, is what I'm saying 20:39:03 at least not in a good design sense 20:39:21 I have no idea if you know what I mean or not, but I am running out of time. 20:39:26 <|amethyst> likewise for the other stat potions 20:39:47 i,i "Say yer prayers, varmint!" 20:39:48 <|amethyst> the stat effect is a mild bonus at best compared to the "side effect" 20:40:21 for int it's actually fairly strong for spells, since it stacks well with wizardry 20:40:29 and gives a big success rate boost 20:40:51 so it's not quite that equivalent, but yeah brill is a pot that's only good for some chars at present 20:41:37 so if that's truly a flaw (which you could argue it isn't), then something like added MR seems reasonable to me 20:42:02 <|amethyst> hm, looks like a +5 bonus to int, at 20 int (20 -> 25), will itself bring 71% fail to 50% 20:42:05 amalloy: whenever one of your videos shows up in my subscription feed, I scream internally 20:42:11 you're welcome 20:42:14 <|amethyst> but when combined with the wizardry effect of brill, will bring it to 7% 20:42:17 i think !brill is useful about as often as !berserk is 20:42:28 yeah wiz is def. bigger, but as anyone who casters higher level spells knows 20:42:29 which is less often than might 20:42:37 an into boost of like 5 or more has a big effect 20:43:02 an into...andinto 20:43:02 chequers: i'm curious why you're subscribed, actually, if i play too slowly for you to enjoy the videos 20:43:36 chequers doesn't watch videos he merely describes what's wrong with them *were* he to watch them 20:44:03 gammafunk: yes, it's not clear whether !brill needs an additional effect. I think it's a good idea in this case, because using defensive items preemptively is part of skill (healing/blink/tele after the accident is trivial in comparison) 20:44:04 I had tabstorm give me a length diatribe about how song request should work in my stream 20:44:04 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:14 number of songs tabstorm would ever request: 0 20:44:28 -!- debo_ is now known as Guest39067 20:44:30 lol 20:44:37 dpeg: it doesn't seem too problematic to me, but it does make the game easier 20:44:46 <|amethyst> your soundtrack isn't 24-7 Gramma Funk? 20:44:58 |amethyst: or that other techno guy 20:45:08 gammafunk: sure thing. I'll try to come up with some equivalent nerf! 20:45:25 I'd like to hear some other opinions on it, personally 20:45:29 huh. someone gave one of my videos a Like, and it was one where i barely played any crawl at all. it was a debugging video 20:45:31 scroll of purity 20:45:36 !! 20:45:37 before the change 20:45:50 nice, you made a debugging video? 20:45:57 I thought about making a "vault making" stream 20:46:01 not sure if I ever would 20:46:09 vault making is on my wish list too 20:46:23 gammafunk: yeah, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkX3LdZYQCU when "reflection was new and crashed my game 20:46:35 !blame3 Lasty 20:46:35 Laaaaastyyyyy 20:46:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:39 that's who like it I bet 20:46:40 spoiler: it turned out the bug was already fixed and CAO just needed a rebuild 20:46:42 *liked 20:46:43 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:46:45 gammafunk: I did watch all of amalloy's first series 20:46:49 <|amethyst> maybe a "broken save file fixing" stream 20:47:02 <|amethyst> or a "writing save compat code" stream 20:47:08 I'd watch a neil debugging video but, it'd be over in like 30 seconds 20:47:08 <|amethyst> gripping and enthralling 20:47:09 that's how fast he fixes bugs 20:47:20 <}> did ozocubu ever have a wizlab? 20:47:25 just a flurry of text, brief glimpses of vim 20:47:27 lasty 20:47:27 gammafunk: and i watched your desu 20:47:27 }: not a finished one 20:47:32 <}> :( 20:47:35 ah, rip the desu dream 20:47:35 what a jerk 20:47:50 grunt wants to revive ozo's wizlab 20:47:52 you're admitting defeat?!?! 20:48:00 we have a map 20:48:00 oh no, just rip that particular one 20:48:01 <}> i want an ozo wizlab 20:48:03 I have a revival of that map 20:48:06 <|amethyst> It would consist of 20 minutes of muttering, cursing, and rocking back and forth in obvious pain; followed by an eyebrow raise and 30 seconds of typing 20:48:13 was slow and weak, death was good for it, poorl little guy 20:48:40 I would watch this video 20:49:07 <}> no iskenderun lab either? 20:49:13 we have one 20:49:16 <}> oh 20:49:17 mystic tower 20:49:19 !lm * milestone~~Iskenderun 20:49:22 2779. [2016-01-05 00:48:21] comborobin the Slayer (L22 MiSu of Okawaru) entered Iskenderun's Mystic Tower on turn 73996. (Elf:2) 20:49:28 ??wizards_without_wizlabs 20:49:28 wizards without wizlabs[1/1]: Spell namesakes: Leda, Lee, Alistair, Ozocubu, Borgnjor, Maxwell, Olgreb, Gell, Yara. Artifact smiths: Ukta ({hat of the bear spirit}), Black/Doom Knight, Octopus King, The Captain, The Alchemist, Zhor, Cekugob, the Botono. 20:49:29 <}> I have never found that 20:49:37 }: it's very purple 20:49:41 purple. 20:49:42 Not sure if Grunt is going to finish up borgs and ozo's yet 20:49:45 oh. it turns out the Like on my debugging video is from someone in russia 20:50:01 is it jaquesderrida 20:50:03 gammafunk: can't remember if you looked at the current state of Ozo's or not 20:50:08 I know you had some comments on Borg's 20:50:10 (the crawl player, not the philosopher) 20:50:22 I think I said what blurbs were useful..hrm 20:50:25 I should play test them 20:50:30 ya 20:50:44 would also be a good stream, another Blame Grunt sessions 20:50:47 *session 20:50:49 ha 20:52:22 03Lasty02 07* 0.18-a0-997-ga98744b: Demystify amulet of harm text (minmay) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a98744b83321 20:53:04 ripping away a piece of their spirit, wow 20:53:15 yeah, that was some awful text 20:53:24 fr: Rip status 20:53:36 what does it do 20:53:40 replace DDoor light? 20:53:41 <.< 20:53:46 Transforms the player into Rip Torn 20:55:24 FR put a comma in that description so it's not possible to parse as "Will punish those who (remove it by draining them)" 20:55:33 Of the people currently around, anyone feel that ring of invis should remain a ring, or that invokable invis should be a jewellery thing in general? 20:55:55 amalloy: you're a dev, you do it :D 20:56:21 -!- sgun__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:56:31 my initial reaction about giving MR (or clarity) for brilliance is negative. I think there are (often) too many of them for characters that don't want to use them otherwise. 20:56:54 would rather see MR in !resistance, where it will always be a hard choice whether to use the limited resource 20:56:57 solution to that: reduce generation rate of !brilliance 20:57:17 is it as common as might at present? 20:57:53 yep 20:58:09 could lower it to !magic and !res 20:58:12 it just seems pretty unrelated effect (in gameplay, flavour works fine) 20:58:33 Medar: yeah but that was exactly the intent for the people proposing it 20:58:48 since the potion is otherwise not very useful for some chars 20:59:29 03amalloy02 07* 0.18-a0-998-gcb3fcb1: reword "harm description 10(7 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cb3fcb191b30 20:59:32 I mean, we haven't talked about how some chars will memorize a spell that's uncastable 20:59:40 but use brill to cast that spell in certain situations 21:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:13 but the concern was for players that don't cast spells, the potion has no good use 21:00:13 yeah, I don't agree with that being a bad thing 21:00:43 but regardless I think it will make it hard to work with the item, since you have one item that means very different things for different characters 21:01:27 Medar: I think that's good 21:01:51 even on a "caster", it means more decisions 21:03:10 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:15 ...and what of BATTLEMAGES! 21:03:26 well, the problem is that the amount of potions that makes the decisions interesting for casters isn't the same as for others 21:03:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:35 -!- Lasty has left ##crawl-dev 21:03:42 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:43 !tell Grunt http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3750248&perpage=40&pagenumber=60#post454579997 21:03:43 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let grunt know. 21:04:24 like you have to choose between giving heavy armoured melee dudes bunch of free MR or not giving casters many chances to use brilliance 21:05:02 hi PleasingFungus... 21:05:14 -!- gammafunk is now known as PleadingFungus 21:05:16 hi Grunt 21:05:57 !banish gammafunk 21:05:58 Grunt casts a spell. gammafunk is cast into the Abyss! 21:05:59 agh 21:06:07 2spoopy 21:06:08 -!- PleadingFungus is now known as gammafunk 21:06:20 I don't believe that at all that MR+ on a _consumable_ is a big issue, there's a lot more MR-attacking threats out there than potions. But my time is up 21:06:45 I think it's true that if that changed happened, we'd want to reduce their frequency 21:07:47 !resist should just give MRimmune 21:08:12 crawl development is really strange: we have no fears to put extremely strong effects on permanent things (inv was mentioned just above by Lasty, or new evokers, or many spells) ... but bicker about a quite limited resource 21:08:44 I think plenty of people believe +Inv is broken 21:09:01 consumables should always be the default, as far as design is concerned, and non-consumables should be justified 21:09:06 potions are also a bit more common than +inv 21:09:51 PleasingFungus: we're taking about an extra effect on !brilliance. How many of these potions can you expect in a winning game? How often can you use +Inv from ring/cloak? 21:10:01 speaking of which, it looks like when ring of regen turned into amulet of regen, we didn't give players who had rings of regen amulets of regen in compensation. 21:10:11 I thought we did. Dunno why... 21:10:23 I don't have anything against having MR in a potion. I just don't like it in !brilliance. 21:10:40 PleasingFungus: taking = talking 21:10:46 I would be not at all surprised if the number of times the average winning game can use +inv is "zero, because you don't find any [over the length of one three-rune game]" 21:11:00 PleasingFungus: this goes absolutely against my experience 21:11:06 hm 21:11:15 if only there was some repository of object statistics 21:11:25 ??objstat 21:11:26 objstat[1/3]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a build of crawl with EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L=-DDEBUG_STATISTICS in your make command (or full debug with "make debug") to generate item/monsters statistics. See crawl -help for the argument details. 21:11:29 ??objstat[2 21:11:29 objstat[2/3]: Latest statistics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing , See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing 21:11:30 but I don't want to compare MR++ with +Inv... my point is that non-consumables are much more likely to be broken than consumables 21:11:37 not sure if that is useful herer 21:11:44 Medar: that was my joke, yes 21:11:50 dpeg: I think that's a distraction 21:11:59 dpeg: my point is only that giving people a lot of MR as a consumable should be balanced; invis being imbalanced (or not) isn't very relevant 21:12:05 my point wasn't that it wuold be broken 21:12:11 "thing a can be more of a problem than thing b can be; therefore thing b is not a problem" 21:12:32 feeling misunderstand thrice in a row, I think I am done here 21:12:34 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:12:42 ahh :( 21:12:44 maybe the plutonium sword should be branded disto 21:12:53 chequers: ??? 21:13:05 moar effects 21:13:12 that seems bad. 21:13:24 doesn't plut sword have more effects than disto 21:13:26 pretty sure it does 21:13:28 by a lot 21:13:31 doesn't it just poly? 21:13:35 oh 21:13:39 no, it's tmut miscasts...? 21:13:39 no it's transmut miscasts iirc 21:13:49 anyway, that seems like quite enough to me 21:13:52 yeah 21:14:03 no need to muddle up the theme more than necessary 21:14:08 I mean when you consider that polymorphing a monster changes it into a completely different monster 21:14:14 it's like a billion effects! 21:14:16 :) 21:14:21 literally a billion! 21:14:31 hey, you can distort tele a monster into like a trillion different positions... 21:14:40 dammit, you win this round, devs 21:15:54 I mean 21:16:03 going back to the mr thing for a moment 21:17:05 I think we already messed up with stuff like putting rcorr on !res, since that seems to mean you can pop !res for the very tiny number of serious acid threats in a normal game (probably just trj); makes the amulet even more superfluous 21:17:17 acid blobs and caustic shrikes get honorable mentions 21:17:21 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:17:26 !source decline_pronoun 21:17:26 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/english.cc#l262 21:17:39 !source accept_pronoun 21:17:40 Can't find accept_pronoun. 21:17:41 "_Gatwyukk invites you to visit its Armour Boutique. 21:17:43 :( 21:17:50 this seems like "their" would be a better fit 21:17:52 !decline PleasingFungus 21:18:06 !pluralize Grunt 21:18:14 !apostrophise gammafunk 21:18:21 chequers: but what species is it?? 21:18:21 Yeah, their would be a better choice 21:18:23 chequers: I was thinking about that... earlier today? the thing is 21:18:31 Ashenzari warns you: "It shops." 21:18:48 that would also change things like You see an orc. It has a weapon of dragon-slaying. 21:18:49 or whatever 21:18:52 nah 21:18:56 no? 21:19:21 http://dpaste.com/04BZB42.txt 21:19:39 um 21:19:48 PleasingFungus: you might have a point about rCorr, it's something that could be revisited if the amulet became a ring, though 21:19:49 .... 21:20:33 it seems like the simplest solution to me 21:20:51 %git 4c80b23a2 21:20:51 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2444-g4c80b23: Randomly gender Gozag's shopkeepers 10(1 year, 2 months ago, 1 file, 6+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4c80b23a2a6b 21:20:56 wow, that actually is choosing the gender 21:21:00 yeah so that's intentional 21:21:01 chequers: imo just revert ^ if you're going to make that change 21:21:19 oh 21:21:29 maybe just remove the neuter gender choice then? 21:21:32 <|amethyst> IMO just remove GENDER_NEUTER 21:21:43 <|amethyst> I mean, there, yeah 21:21:45 <|amethyst> not in general 21:21:50 it was an intentional thing, to suggest the 'weird' and 'alien'. but I guess NO ONE appreciates my BRILLIANCE 21:21:58 possibly because I don't have enough magic resistance or something 21:22:18 :) 21:22:21 fr: alien shop on the moon 21:22:21 remove it, then! philistines! 21:22:23 * PleasingFungus spits. 21:22:26 <|amethyst> (it would be nice to have GENDER_ANIMATE for "they", but the problem is verb conjugation) 21:22:58 yeah, was thinking about that when I thought cheqs was talking about the broader context 21:23:12 A dancing executioner's axe comes into view. She is an executioner's axe of distortion. 21:23:16 <|amethyst> %git spivak 21:23:16 Could not find commit spivak (git returned 128) 21:23:23 wheals probably deleted it 21:23:25 going on a rampage... 21:23:32 <|amethyst> %git ungendered 21:23:32 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-2888-gbdc2e65: Add 'ungendered' option for Spivak pronouns. 10(1 year, 1 month ago, 6 files, 16+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bdc2e65e205b 21:23:34 gammafunk: and a very lovely axe she is! 21:24:08 <|amethyst> Caring about that will be necessary if we ever do translations :) 21:24:20 :( 21:24:23 <|amethyst> about gender of inanimate objects I mean 21:24:28 haha 21:24:52 anyway I'm honestly fine with removing neuter or the silly gender thing entirely, just seemed silly that the context was being missed 21:25:07 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:25:10 yeah i'm lazy 21:25:26 rekt 21:25:52 I remember people thought the GENDER_NEUTER was weird back when I added it 21:26:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I guess the problem is that, to me, calling someone with a name "it" isn't as much "alien" as it is "dehumanizing" 21:27:01 <|amethyst> which is not a great word given the context, but "depersonalizing" means something different 21:27:05 Splurbax welcomes you to its shop with a gentle wave of its fifth tentacle. 21:27:17 (fifth ventral tentacle?) 21:27:45 please remove the code that puts good items on the dungeon floor whenever I worship gozag 21:28:01 not feeling the urge to shop? 21:28:43 turns items to gold too 21:28:44 i want to shop! but every time I try the dungeon provideth 21:29:21 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:35 gozag should turn gold into gold 21:29:41 also crawl should have precious gems 21:29:55 that are worth endgame score?? 21:30:02 don't be absurd. 21:30:21 They're just precious gems. You put them in a display case or something, probably. 21:30:21 oh 21:30:22 Bling up a ring. 21:30:23 sorry 21:30:26 It's okay. 21:31:08 a very old version of crawl had enums for gems and I've wanted crawl to have gems ever since. 21:31:23 i would like to remove foodless conduct from gozag, or at least make it less tough 21:31:34 but i keep missing dpeg to please my case 21:31:39 sounds lame 21:31:46 the foodless conduct is the cool thing about gozag 21:32:27 (I don't know what gems would do, but now that I'm aware they aren't there, it's like an itch I can't scratch!) 21:32:59 you can socket them in items, i think 21:33:09 they still don't do anything, but you can still socket them 21:33:36 something cosmetic. 21:33:43 -!- njorth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:45 your daily tavern design wisdom: "The best thing about Hell is it's a [b]stash[/b]." 21:36:14 ! 21:36:17 guru wisdom 21:38:16 that was accurate until slimes eating seen items was changed though, right? 21:38:45 um 21:38:52 not really 21:38:57 hell has had random monsters generating in it for approximately forever so, no, not really 21:39:18 ook 21:39:53 (a) even when slimes ate items, it wasn't worthwhile to stash (I didn't and it never once bit me in the butt) 21:40:05 (b) pretty sure slimes can come through the vestibule stairs 21:40:23 "monster generation stops in the vestibule after a while" was always a myth btw 21:40:40 isn't that true of most branches? 21:40:48 it's true of most branches since 0.6 21:40:54 <|amethyst> vestibule has a different drop-off 21:41:03 ironically, vestibule is one of the few places in the game where monster generation never stops (afaict) 21:41:15 although it does become rather slow 21:41:22 nice 21:43:16 my theory is that some people saw "good" players stashing in hell all the time in their 15-rune games 21:43:48 and decided that hell must be a really safe place for items, instead of the simpler explanation that it's a very convenient place to visit when you're doing the four hell branches 21:44:11 and just kinda...imagined the monster generation stopping thing? quite honestly I have no idea at all how that one got started 21:44:17 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:07 folk knowledge is really cool 21:46:28 the process by which garbage becomes known fact 21:47:47 <|amethyst> that wasn't fixed in CrawlWiki until August 2014 21:47:54 <|amethyst> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=The_Vestibule_of_Hell&diff=32118&oldid=14893 21:48:49 <|amethyst> unfortunately there doesn't seem to be pre-2012 history so no idea when that was added 21:49:41 hahaha 21:49:45 so that's an explanation 21:51:19 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:55:35 -!- alvarops has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:44 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:12 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:37 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:03 -!- Guest39067 is now known as debo 22:04:45 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:36 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05:42 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:00 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:42 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:20 -!- } has quit [] 22:16:34 so there's this annoying thing with webtiles where if you hold down Tab in a low latency environment with webtiles-changes, the game hangs 22:16:41 and eventually times out 22:16:57 -!- Menche has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:03 really messing with my speedruns 22:17:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:19:38 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:51 oh that sounds bad 22:20:12 although I'm not sure this would really be a webtiles-changes thing 22:21:54 i haven't tested webtiles in a low latency environment 22:22:06 also, it's not just tab, just any key that causes the game to do things 22:22:14 eg if you hold tab when it does nothing, the game is fine 22:22:26 but if you hold o in an empty level it can hang too 22:22:39 er, prob not actually, since you can't hold o 22:27:12 is gozag meant to offer potion effects that don't apply to you? 22:27:17 keeps offering my Fo haste 22:27:40 basically they just inflate the potion cost 22:35:01 so somebody's going to reimplement tab as not a crazy macro right 22:35:21 so that it e.g. doesn't break if you redefine vikeys 22:35:48 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:37:07 ontoclasm: there is an ugly workaround for that, but you probably knew that 22:37:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:09 my theory for chequers' problem is that the socket buffer(?) from webtiles server to crawl binary is filled 22:39:45 and server is waiting for space to be available there, while crawl is waiting for the server to read json packets or something 22:39:55 not sure... 22:40:23 -!- LordSloth has left ##crawl-dev 22:44:56 i could buy that, it seems to be more likely when there are more changes in the map (monsters moving, etc) 22:46:10 that could fill the crawl binary -> webtiles server buffer 22:47:23 does the depth you place gozag shops at affect their item quality? 22:47:50 afaik yes, but they always have some high quality items regardless 22:48:13 this isn't first hand information and might be wrong 22:50:00 Grunt: awaken earth makes elf awesome, so much more dangerous 22:50:41 .awoken 22:50:42 4. Snord the Impregnable (L20 MiFi of Makhleb), slain by an earth elemental (summoned by a deep elf elementalist) on Elf:3 on 2015-12-29 03:10:19, with 335846 points after 57907 turns and 3:37:49. 22:50:50 it doesn't actually kill very many people directly :b 22:50:54 but I'm glad to hear it 22:51:00 also thank wheals 22:51:02 or blame wheals 22:51:04 !blame2 wheals 22:51:05 wwwhhheeeaaalllsss 22:51:11 Grunt: i noticed some elves still have summon earth elementals, which seems redundant or possibly confusing now 22:52:30 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:53 -!- vev has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:54 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:29 -!- Graydot- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:26 -!- Graydot is now known as Graydot- 23:02:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:04:06 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:06:27 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:36 awaken is pretty beefy when you run into an early (ish) mage though 23:08:03 you can admittedly stomp on earth elementals by the time you normally do elf t 23:08:47 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:12 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:18 it can turn your killhole into a full surround of enemies though 23:12:22 nearly killed my Fo a few times 23:16:20 I've never actually created a killhole on elf before 23:16:21 and I guess with awaken, I never will 23:19:06 you can still use killholes 23:19:13 just have to make more than one 23:19:24 or rather remake them as they get r u i n e d 23:20:05 !ruin gammafunk 23:20:35 * gammafunk evaporates and reforms as a new design! 23:20:51 newnewnewnewnewnewnewnewgammafunk 23:27:47 -!- glaas has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:54 so to prep for the elf vault I just make a series of kill holes 23:28:20 so when one is removed, I just shimmy over to the next one. easy peasy 23:28:29 ?/shimmy 23:28:30 No matches. 23:32:30 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:32:33 -!- sysice has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:32:48 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:04 <|amethyst> so would you say that the whole branch shimmies, around and around and around and around? 23:35:31 johnstein: no, the prep is the same 23:35:38 you make a kill hole, use it until it's ruined 23:35:43 when it gets ruined, then you make another 23:35:52 moving to another pre-made one would just get that one ruined probably 23:36:15 but you just use it until the elementalist comes along, if he ruins it, kill him, move to and make another 23:36:36 since it's like 3 turns to make a killhole once you're next to a proper wall 23:37:34 how well you can do this will depend on how much rock is available at the entrance 23:37:39 which can vary by vault placement 23:40:39 -!- eb has quit [] 23:44:16 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:54 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 23:50:01 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:51 -!- somebody has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:51:48 -!- destroythecore has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:53 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 23:53:10 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:22 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:02 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev