00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:23 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:01:44 -!- cang has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:03:44 ontoclasm: here's a thought: is 'getting your last flying skull killed so you can get a fresh set' a problem? 00:05:24 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:06:23 -!- surr_ is now known as Surr 00:09:46 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:10:38 clearly just gift 00:10:41 single flying skulls instead. 00:10:43 <.< 00:12:13 what's the problem we're trying to solve with yred? 00:13:07 -!- angelichorsey has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:18 06:14:57 ontoclasm | the primary idea was to prevent a) scumming for a huge army, b) scumming for better minions, and c) getting ruined for ages because your army got wiped 00:14:02 well I think c) is basically the player's fault and preventing that is basically the point of a permanent ally god 00:14:27 unless you mean some specific case in particular 00:14:36 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.18-a0-721-g8fc53f4 (34) 00:15:04 I'm not really sure how a) is is a thing; doesn't yred award minions based on piety from kills? 00:15:46 s/preventing that/holding the player responsible for preventing that/ 00:15:51 (that was ontoclasm who said this, in case my irc's formatting is confusing) 00:16:16 yeah, I gotcha, and assumed that was the case 00:16:33 I'm not sure if the best punishment for not taking care of your allies is making the god mostly useless 00:16:44 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:16:54 maybe it is, but it's not the only option and we can decide how severe it should be 00:17:08 well yred isn't mostly useless if you lose your allies 00:17:36 he gives: pain mirror, all-los drain life, animate dead 00:17:46 and aren't those animate dead permanent 00:18:37 animated dead are, of course, allies, and quite easy to lose. not least because they don't regenerate & are stuck on a single floor. 00:19:18 even permanent zombies on the same floor is really strong 00:19:19 a big part of the argument, I think, is that beogh exists, and is the god about keeping your allies around and carefully preserving them to become stronger and better. 00:19:40 -!- Mordru has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:45 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:19:52 yeah, it's not useless, being a bit overly dramatic :) 00:19:53 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:19:54 yred's allies don't become stronger, especially now that they can't equip new weapons & armour. so why not move further away from beogh and have a god who just gives you a squad of allies, rather than an ally-management god? 00:20:08 but yred's main point is still the allies 00:20:09 well if you want to argue that the god's focus design wise shouldn't be about caring about your permanent alies that's one thing 00:20:12 beogh is the god of moving floor equipment into the deep water. stupid meph 00:20:24 rchandra: that's old beogh, surely! 00:20:34 but there seems to be an argument somehow the player is left at some xtreme disadvantage or something 00:20:35 now only the very best carefully selected equipment will take the plunge. 00:20:37 it just really isn't the case 00:20:41 current! I gave a knight a fine large shield 00:20:45 I wasn't making that argument. 00:20:46 he tried to surf with it 00:20:48 -!- R18 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:21:07 rchandra: Charlie Orc Don't Surf 00:21:21 oh that's true, "floor equipment" was the wrong phrase 00:21:33 <|amethyst> PF in fact made even more monsters go swimming 00:22:22 <|amethyst> sorcerers and high priests used to be smart enough not to 00:22:42 if you want there to be no management, I'm not sure you can really do permanent allies at all 00:22:59 maybe you need to think about actual summons 00:23:11 I didn't mind the beogh equipment game. I think the care and feeding game needs some work 00:23:55 usually I preferred growing a small group but then it was very annoying if I wanted to replace them when they became warlords (because of recall grabbing from the top) 00:24:17 though beogh's equipment blessings is a reason to just keep that small group of warlords anyway 00:24:34 <|amethyst> split recall into Recall Mooks / Recall Minibosses 00:24:45 yeah that whole minigame is pretty opaque the player in terms of what should be done 00:25:19 gammafunk: again, I'm not saying no management, just that it's a reduced focus. the idea here would be to make losing an ally still a loss, but one of more limited scope. 00:25:59 well, perhaps you can think of maybe giving the player a fixed "size" of allies (based on piety?) 00:26:02 like, you're down an ally for the next floor or two floors or half a floor or whatever the gift timer is, rather than You Have One Fewer Ally Than You Would Have, For The Rest Of The Game. 00:26:13 You lose one maybe it downgrades 00:26:39 I'm confused. 00:26:39 And bewildered. 00:27:43 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:43 <|amethyst> fixed size is pretty much what ontoclasm proposed 00:27:49 sounds like what you're describing is what I'm describing 00:28:27 Sounds like *you're* describing what *I'm* describing! 00:28:29 yeah, there are just some possible issues that pop up in terms of how the type of ally gets chosen 00:28:34 and also you got my peanut butter 00:28:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:45 Yeah but what you were describing? bcadren described it first 00:28:50 fuck 00:28:52 fuck!!! 00:28:54 -!- chewymouse has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:58 tempting... 00:29:14 please make a race that gets stronger depending on what corpses you eat tia 00:29:20 ghoul remake???? 00:29:34 gammafunk: to be clear, did you see http://pastie.org/pastes/9129434 ? 00:29:52 chewymouse: nethack 3.6 is out now! go! go play! 00:30:01 ya 00:30:02 I saw 00:30:23 I think there might be a specific 'won't do' for corpse effects. 00:30:27 it sounds familiar. 00:30:38 but I wanted to drop my first shameless request after 8 years of crawl because of how strongly I feel about it 00:30:45 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that just means it should be on a god, not a race, right? 00:30:49 haha 00:30:53 I just want a race that gets stronger based on how many uniques you eat 00:30:54 or an unrand! 00:31:15 scum until you get an early dowan/duvessa... 00:31:38 <|amethyst> as long as you're not impregnating them with spider babies 00:31:38 c - Urug's hearth 00:31:45 it's worth it though 00:31:51 uniques are supposed to be high cost high reward though right 00:32:00 or high risk at least 00:32:22 <|amethyst> couldn't you just make it trigger on killing uniques? 00:32:25 also impetus to make uniques stronger 00:32:35 they're more like high risk low reward, after the very early game where the xp matters 00:32:35 ha ha ha 00:32:42 ya 00:33:18 but ya |amethyst I didn't mean specifically the eating mechanic in crawl 00:33:24 <|amethyst> FR: moon troll hide has to be upgraded into moon troll leather armour 00:33:27 * Grunt is reminded of his work on an insulation ego, if only because Nikola was guaranteed in that patch to get a piece of insulation equipment. 00:33:27 but it's a very crawl thing to eat everything 00:33:41 so maybe just flavor text on kill 00:33:51 ok #badidea done 00:33:54 thanks for listening 00:34:13 <|amethyst> !send Grunt Fannar 00:34:14 Sending Fannar to Grunt. 00:34:28 |amethyst: you get rC and/or a staff of cold out of killing Fannar :) 00:34:30 there will always be a place for bad ideas in this channel. 00:34:33 re: that yred proposal, it's not clear to me how the piety cost would work 00:34:34 (ring of ice either way!) 00:34:40 er 00:34:45 (ice enhancer either way) <.< 00:34:52 gammafunk: yeah that confused me too but he was just talking about the gift timer 00:35:22 <|amethyst> gammafunk: did you know that when you have a gift timeout counting down, except for Jiyva and Nemelex, you get ~1/4 normal piety? 00:35:27 <|amethyst> I did not know this! 00:35:31 so there's no special cost when one dies, it's just "keep your piety up so you don't lose the slot, and be patient" 00:35:56 |amethyst: yeah, I did since minmay made a nice post about it but 00:36:05 in his analysis there's really not much of a cost to that 00:36:08 that sounds like a thing minmay would know. 00:36:14 unless you're at like low piety? 00:36:51 like in the end, this "reduction" is not really significant, but I do forget all the details now 00:36:51 <|amethyst> AF_THEORYCRAFT 00:37:00 AT_FORUM_POST? 00:37:31 so his conclusion was "you don't have to care about the gift timeout" 00:37:50 I remember reading it all and agreeing with him, wish I could find that post 00:38:08 well I should say "if I were lazy, I'd go find that post" 00:38:12 *weren't, jesus 00:38:54 it had something to do with the fact that 00:39:05 piety gain is affected by your current piety level 00:39:30 so any reduction ended up being pretty deng minor for any level of piety where'd you'd actually get gifts 00:39:38 since most gods require like 5*+ for that 00:41:08 yred gifts at lower piety, of course. 00:41:46 his gift quality is based on piety? or is it xl? 00:42:04 based on number of gifts you've received 00:42:18 according to the wiki anyway; i guess i never looked at the source 00:42:42 <|amethyst> yes, it seems so 00:42:42 xl 00:43:02 <|amethyst> ah, both 00:43:28 but anyhow, if the proposal doesn't have any special piety costs and it's just "keep your piety up, and be patient for that next gift to get your ally back" 00:43:32 then that seems pretty reasonable 00:43:34 <|amethyst> oh, no, XL only for wrath 00:43:47 oh, you're right 00:43:47 <|amethyst> !source religion.cc:1861 00:43:47 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc#l1861 00:43:57 <|amethyst> !source yred_random_servants 00:43:58 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc#l1327 00:44:14 gammafunk: yeah. I'm just not sure about implementation and a few small details 00:44:16 like flying skulls 00:44:32 -!- shuangxi has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:44:42 @??flying skull 00:44:43 flying skull (00z) | Spd: 15 | HD: 7 | HP: 14-26 | AC/EV: 10/17 | Dam: 14 | 07undead, evil, fly, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(20), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 228 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 00:44:50 I guess more of a tiny detail. 00:44:59 I'm not sure if that proposed composition will be great, since those popcorn things might be just constantly dying no matter what 00:45:16 I guess to the player it doesn't matter 00:45:30 maybe with a somewhat smaller army not with 5 servitors + 5 bone dragons + 5 ghouls 00:45:37 they're position a bit more carefully 00:45:53 *the player will position 00:46:06 where are you getting those numbers? 00:46:18 current yred 00:46:20 oh I see 00:46:23 I misread 00:46:23 gives a lot of swol dudes 00:46:26 sure 00:46:38 pretty hard to get upto quite those numbers in my experience 00:46:43 also true 00:46:49 but I don't really look after them much 00:46:52 you can't get that with current yred, can you? it seemed to me like you can't have a total of more than 3 servitor+BD 00:47:04 and like 2 or 3 ghouls 00:47:25 amalloy: 3 is the exact limit for servitors+bd, yes. don't think there's a limit for others 00:47:35 Medar: older version of yred it was possible, yeah 00:47:43 current yred does cap them more aggressively 00:47:59 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:00 The build is still failing. (master - cdcb97a #4150 : Neil Moore): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/95496864 00:48:00 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:48:03 i never seemed to get more than a couple ghouls, but maybe i just didn't notice 00:48:06 is it down to 3 max for any of bone dragons/servitors? 00:48:16 gammafunk: 3 total 00:48:25 <|amethyst> wha 00:48:26 in those two categories 00:48:26 yeah that's a much more aggressive cap 00:48:35 <|amethyst> that travis failure is a lua segfault 00:52:41 -!- Dingle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:52:49 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151029151421]] 00:53:18 -!- Zekka is now known as Zeqquora 00:56:46 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:34 -!- Zeqquora is now known as Zekka 00:57:45 -!- Mercuria1Alchemi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:01 -!- tedric has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:02 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.18-a0-721-g8fc53f4 (34) 01:08:55 .ironed 01:08:56 12. [dam=34;tdam=34] jestert79 the Acrobat (L27 KoGl of Pakellas), blasted by an iron giant (iron shot) on Depths:2 on 2015-12-08 01:22:45, with 545927 points after 126231 turns and 6:23:00. 01:09:17 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:10:06 Grunt: Someone had a Really Grunt Day: https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/3vvb2s/yasd_kogl_of_pakellas/ 01:10:11 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:10:34 -!- tedric has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:11 the iron giant (10C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 220 | AC/EV: 18/2 | Dam: 60 | 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(120), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 12drown | XP: 5362 | Sp: iron shot (3d37) [06!sil], sum.iron elementals [06!sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 01:11:11 %??the iron giant 01:11:35 since TRJ got promoted, is it time for the Iron Giant? 01:11:56 well it's an ordinary enemy 01:12:03 hrm, not sure about the sprint def though 01:12:04 oh 01:12:07 is that just a vault define 01:12:33 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:16:25 -!- Gorgo has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:20:55 -!- WhodaMan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:24:24 nethack updated! dcss player numbers are rapidly approaching a yawning chasm!! 01:26:07 yawning nethack players are rapidly approaching dcss! a chasm updated numbers!! 01:27:08 haha 01:27:43 either i'm really stupid or i didn't get a temple 01:28:01 look for unvisited stairs 01:28:02 but all the stairs are marked as used from d:4-d:8 inclusive 01:28:04 i'm gonna go with option (a) 01:28:21 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: green now means "saw both ends", not "used" 01:28:28 oh 01:28:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:31 right 01:28:33 <|amethyst> ProzacElf: probably you saw one of the ends behind glass 01:28:43 <|amethyst> %git :/map 01:28:43 07chequers02 * 0.18-a0-674-g30d92a4: Add three overflow vaults and a generic minivault. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 180+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/30d92a467da5 01:28:45 <|amethyst> %git :/mapp 01:28:46 07elliptic02 * 0.18-a0-675-g1ad1de6: Don't match up stone stairs that have been mapped but not seen (causative). 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 10+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1ad1de6f3982 01:28:55 i actually did find my pak altar that way 01:28:56 <|amethyst> (see comment in the commit message) 01:29:13 yeah, ok 01:29:14 you've highlighted that commite twice in a few hours -- once more and you HAVE to merge it 01:29:31 it was in a walled off area on d:5 01:29:34 <|amethyst> chequers: shouldn't use words in your commit message! 01:29:42 and you could see the stairs through glass but you couldn't see the temple 01:29:50 temple entrance 01:29:52 <|amethyst> henceforth all PRs must be submitted in Elder Futhark 01:30:22 maybe that vault should make the temple stairs visible, not the down stairs 01:30:32 Linear B 01:30:40 for pull requests 01:30:41 rchandra: or even both 01:30:48 both would probably make sense 01:30:59 with just the temple stairs visible, it's like "argh how do i get in there?" 01:31:03 heh 01:31:18 but then the upstair on the next level would still be marked "unused" 01:31:19 |amethyst: fair point 01:31:25 or whatever we're calling that definition now 01:31:33 I think one > both, but both is also ok 01:31:52 just get rid of that annoying T entrance where you have to go upstairs to access it 01:32:05 so does this change mean that autotravel knows which staircase goes where just from seeing both ends? you could use X. to move into that behind-glass staircase? 01:32:17 <|amethyst> yes 01:32:21 after you've seen the other end, yes 01:32:40 <|amethyst> GD1 buff 01:32:44 heh 01:32:48 you could even GT 01:32:58 if the temple were visible 01:33:20 i always used every regular stairway for the express purpose of making GD1 the most expeditious way to do the orbrun without digging 01:33:26 <|amethyst> rchandra: and if you could see a path between the two ends 01:33:46 ProzacElf: well now you dont have to 01:33:58 yes, i'm surprised i broke that habit that quickly 01:34:18 on a somewhat related note, is slime temple still possible? 01:34:28 since the jiyva altars got shoved down farther 01:34:29 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:34:59 yes 01:35:09 i think the commit message evern says that 01:35:17 %git :/Jiyva.*altar 01:35:17 07elliptic02 * 0.18-a0-218-g02954ca: Move Jiyva altar vaults deeper (again). 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 14+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/02954cad73f6 01:35:17 that's something at least 01:35:20 yes 01:35:20 personally I've never seen a J altar in D 01:35:41 i saw J altars many times before i ever saw a slime temple 01:36:46 even deeper... 01:36:48 not sure I've even seen slime temple 01:37:06 <|amethyst> !lm . god.worship=jiyva s=place 01:37:10 34 milestones for |amethyst (god.worship=jiyva): 14x D:3, 12x D:2, 2x Temple, 2x D:5, 2x D:4, D:6, D:9 01:37:24 <|amethyst> RIP jiyva 01:38:26 Your slime was not pure enough for the Great Ooze 01:38:38 <|amethyst> !lm . god.worship=jiyva s=place,lg:place 01:38:40 34 milestones for |amethyst (god.worship=jiyva): 14x D:3 (4x D:6, 3x D:4, 3x D:8, 2x D:5, 2x D:3), 12x D:2 (4x D:4, 2x D:3, 2x D:5, Abyss, D:9, Bailey, D:2), 2x D:4 (Ossuary, D:5), 2x D:5 (2x D:6), 2x Temple (Lair:1, D:7), D:6 (Abyss:2), D:9 (Lab) 01:38:45 jiyva wasn't necessarily a great choice for d:2 or 3 or whatever, but i'm still not sure that "oh, it's a noob trap" really justifies guaranteeing they only spawn deeper 01:39:08 -!- WTFace has quit [] 01:39:16 !lm * god.worship=jiyva s=br 01:39:17 5971 milestones for * (god.worship=jiyva): 3125x D, 1888x Lair, 529x Slime, 351x Temple, 61x Abyss, 6x Depths, 5x Vaults, 2x Snake, Orc, Zot, Elf, Tar 01:39:29 his justification was that the god simply isn't designed to be worship early 01:40:03 clearly remove non-early D trog altars then 01:40:03 "noob trap" is just stating how it functions when the player is allowed to circumvent that 01:40:10 !lm * god.worship=jiyva br=tar -tv 01:40:11 1. ebarrett, XL27 MfCK, T:124851 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 01:40:21 non-early D trog... 01:40:24 <|amethyst> well 01:40:27 that made a lot of sense 01:40:51 <|amethyst> I could see a similar argument for removing TSO from temple/overflow 01:41:19 I couldn't, because TSO is designed to be used early 01:41:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:43 TSO is decent enough yeah 01:41:45 TSO just happens to also be design to be like the best god in the game in extended, or nearly so 01:42:10 <|amethyst> there's enough piety from seeing monsters? 01:42:13 -!- Dixlet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:31 well there's a fair amount of undead ones as well 01:42:34 D has zombies etc. lair not so much 01:42:37 wight packs are big, all zombies 01:42:55 when i went TSO-first, i got to ***** on lair:8 i think 01:42:57 I don't think you get THAT much piety as tso 01:43:13 how much is THAT much? 01:43:20 !lm . drsu won champion s=place,god 01:43:24 !lm * god.worship=tso min=lvl won 01:43:24 One milestone for amalloy (drsu won champion): Swamp:2 (The Shining One) 01:43:29 4814. [2009-08-01 01:17:41] Konstantin the Skirmisher (L6 MiFi of The Shining One) became a worshipper of The Shining One on turn 4900. (Temple) 01:43:33 <|amethyst> I might have to try TSO again 01:43:37 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:38 !lm * god.worship=tso min=lvl won current - log 01:43:38 No keyword '-' 01:43:39 !lm * god.worship=tso min=lvl won current -log 01:43:44 Armakuni, XL27 HOMo, T:66340: http://crawl.xtahua.com/crawl/morgue/Armakuni/morgue-Armakuni-20151031-120318.txt 01:43:54 <|amethyst> I listen too much to people who say one is stupid for making a non-"optimal" choice 01:44:01 !lm * current god.maxpiety tso xl<20 s=place 01:44:03 339 milestones for * (current god.maxpiety tso xl<20): 41x Lair:8, 37x Orc:4, 29x D:12, 22x D:13, 18x D:11, 18x Orc:3, 17x Orc:2, 17x D:14, 17x D:15, 14x IceCv, 12x Lair:7, 9x Orc:1, 7x Lair:6, 7x Lair:4, 7x D:10, 6x Lair:1, 6x Lair:5, 5x Abyss:1, 5x D:9, 4x Lair:3, 4x Swamp:1, 3x Swamp:2, 3x Elf:2, 3x Spider:3, 3x Crypt:3, 3x Swamp:4, 3x Elf:1, 2x Snake:1, 2x D:7, 2x Spider:1, 2x Depths:1, 2x Elf... 01:44:24 so you hit max piety with about 10 uses of shield 01:45:08 !tell PleasingFungus maybe yred should just not gift flying skulls 01:45:08 ontoclasm: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 01:45:28 I don't think that's any kind of indication that it's really hard to get max piety with TSO 01:45:37 <|amethyst> There was the time right after TSO got monster-looking piety 01:45:40 also much of the boost from TSO early is from an accuracy increase 01:45:45 <|amethyst> before it was made to not work on firewood 01:45:48 yeah, halo is the big thing 01:45:50 <|amethyst> %git :/crop_circles 01:45:51 07|amethyst02 * 0.10-a0-3004-g9b43b2d: Do not give TSO piety for seeing no-XP monsters. 10(3 years, 11 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9b43b2de285a 01:46:36 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: Farewell.] 01:46:49 TSO just really likes finding toadstools 01:48:01 <|amethyst> Thank you, dear worshipper, for investigating these fungi for me. I have determined that they are not currently in need of eradication, but you will be informed should they turn evil in the future and require further effort on your part. 01:51:40 obv. TSO should say something when you see new monster types 01:51:58 Retheme as the God of Zoology? 01:52:04 yes 01:52:56 -!- zero_one has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:01 "Another entry for my TSOdex!" 01:53:11 !tell |amethyst not sure who I should tell this to, but the hostname listed here is wrong: http://crawl.develz.org/play.htm 01:53:12 TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 01:53:58 oh yeah, I can update that 01:54:08 TZer0: do you mean it should use the new cue hostname? 01:54:10 ??cue 01:54:10 cue[1/4]: European Crawl server, located in Germany. http://underhound.eu:8080/ or underhound.eu, port 22, username: terminal, key: http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key.ppk See {putty} for Windows users. Runs 0.10-0.17 and trunk (DCSS, Zot, Sprint, Tut) 01:54:15 gammafunk: CAO doesn't link to WebTiles page like others 01:54:16 The Shining One says, "Did you know that electric eels generate a current by flexing a specially-adapted set of muscles?" 01:54:22 er, oops 01:54:23 does getting confused reduce your SH to 0? if so, it should probably not get rid of the passive SH from qaz 01:54:23 gammafunk: yeah 01:54:28 it says crawl.lantea.net 01:54:30 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:54:31 it should be underhound.eu 01:54:36 yeah those are both bugs 01:54:38 let me fix 01:55:44 TZer0: it will always be CLAN to me 01:56:15 johnstein: haha 01:56:54 gammafunk: oh, i was gone when you were talking about yred 01:57:27 part of the goal was to remove (some of) the awfulness of having permanent allies 01:57:43 i.e. that you have to keep them alive 01:58:20 if they come back quickly, you don't have to shepherd them so much 01:58:27 what's the qaz shield flavour? 01:59:12 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:15 all the other magical/divine/mutation shields you still control yourself I guess 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:06 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00:32 i think it's the storm deflecting stuff 02:00:39 so confusion wouldn't affect it 02:00:44 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:51 anyway, sh is really overused so it could do with another nerf 02:01:00 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:13 !source player_shield_class 02:01:13 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/player.cc#l2396 02:01:38 just add qazlal_sh_boost to the early if then, I guess 02:04:21 Medar: TZer0: both issues fixed, thanks 02:05:19 sweet 02:06:58 this reminds me 02:07:17 this list could use updating: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11548 02:07:37 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:05 Surr (L9 DsMo) (D (Sprint)) 02:12:53 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:54 The build failed. (master - 8fc53f4 #4152 : Nicholas Feinberg): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/95505266 02:12:54 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 02:13:49 same lua crash :o 02:13:56 in travis that is 02:13:58 !crashlog 02:13:59 13415. MakeMeASandwich, XL25 HuVM, T:65412 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/MakeMeASandwich/crash-MakeMeASandwich-20151208-043131.txt 02:14:02 !crashlog sprint 02:14:02 No milestones for sprint (crash). 02:14:07 !crashlog * sprint 02:14:08 595. Surr, XL9 DsMo, T:2190 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Surr/crash-Surr-20151208-071203.txt 02:14:43 that's old version 02:14:49 I want to protest needing to have flight on coc:7 02:14:53 -!- FireSight has quit [] 02:15:05 either guarantee me a ring of flight or gtfooooo 02:15:51 you can also use magic or teleports 02:16:12 <|amethyst> I forget, are the islands close enough for Ru to get you across? 02:16:12 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 02:16:31 I don't think the super open one is, not sure about others 02:16:31 no 02:16:38 (ask me how i know) 02:16:39 rchandra: I am a troll with six int and no spellcasting levels, it's a bit of stretch to get the flight spell at this stage of the game 02:17:19 teleport until success (also it'd be Blink / Passage / Cblink / iceform / dragonform / tornado) 02:17:22 flight spell doesn't even exist anymore :) 02:17:33 I have maybe ten teleports total 02:17:38 oh, polymorph yourself into a wisp 02:17:40 <|amethyst> no ring of teleport? 02:17:43 |amethyst: nope 02:17:55 hm, I guess I could evoke tele 02:18:03 it is so terrible that I am actually contemplating this 02:18:16 anyway, grumble grumble 02:18:30 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:19 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:19:50 &dump Wensley 02:19:51 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Wensley/Wensley.txt 02:20:47 4 potions, 6 cblink scrolls, +Blink ring, teleports should be enough 02:21:19 -!- shuangxi has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 02:22:14 Medar: oh right, I can blink 02:22:19 so hilarious 02:22:46 anyway, let's do gehenna and hope for a flight ring 02:22:58 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:23:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: I'M OUT SON. PEACE, LOVE, EXPLOSIONS.] 02:23:07 how does scrambling work now that weight is no longer in the game? 02:23:36 you just die 02:23:40 haha 02:23:41 brutal 02:24:42 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:24:43 there's probably no reason you can't learn passage of golubria with geh exp, use brilliance on coc7 if you need to 02:24:53 !lg * s=cv / drown o=% 02:24:59 2803/5110035 games for *: 257/279069x 0.16 [0.09%], 290/330643x 0.16-a [0.09%], 74/84396x 0.3 [0.09%], 494/592075x 0.17-a [0.08%], 178/221626x 0.15 [0.08%], 90/118464x 0.17 [0.08%], 47/63093x 0.18-a [0.07%], 178/264186x 0.15-a [0.07%], 83/140476x 0.14 [0.06%], 25/42390x 0.2 [0.06%], 20/36937x 0.6-a [0.05%], 96/179656x 0.7 [0.05%], 82/153796x 0.4 [0.05%], 124/241184x 0.5 [0.05%], 164/366538x 0.14-a... 02:25:55 !lg !bot !boring s=cv / drown o=% 02:26:08 2757/4259472 games for bot (!boring): 74/54037x 0.3 [0.14%], 244/222616x 0.16 [0.11%], 285/286723x 0.16-a [0.10%], 475/515022x 0.17-a [0.09%], 124/141508x 0.5 [0.09%], 174/199848x 0.15 [0.09%], 88/101145x 0.17 [0.09%], 45/53995x 0.18-a [0.08%], 178/232148x 0.15-a [0.08%], 82/108261x 0.4 [0.08%], 25/34917x 0.2 [0.07%], 20/28945x 0.6-a [0.07%], 83/124808x 0.14 [0.07%], 41/63919x 0.8-a [0.06%], 96/15... 02:27:02 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.16 drown s=place 02:27:03 257 games for * (cv=0.16 drown): 25x Sewer, 24x IceCv, 22x Shoals:5, 15x Shoals:1, 15x D:3, 12x D:4, 11x Shoals:4, 10x Shoals:3, 8x Pan, 7x Coc:7, 7x Shoals:2, 6x D:12, 6x Swamp:1, 6x D:10, 6x D:6, 5x Orc:4, 5x D:5, 5x Depths:1, 5x D:9, 4x D:11, 4x D:13, 4x Lair:8, 4x Bailey, 3x Swamp:2, 3x Depths:2, 3x Lair:4, 3x D:1, 3x D:7, 3x Spider:4, 3x D:2, 2x Lair:6, 2x Lair:1, 2x Spider:1, Swamp:5, Spider... 02:28:10 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.16 drown s=map 02:28:11 257 games for * (cv=0.16 drown): 90x, 13x ice_cave_small_giant, 13x water_maze_lemuel, 9x sewer_sea, 9x minmay_goblin_kobold_castle, 8x sewer_minmay_treatment, 8x tgw_sif, 8x led_sif_book, 4x coc_mu, 4x ice_cave_caverns_03, 4x ice_cave_small_dragons, 4x statuecave_lemuel, 4x lom_lobon_spiral_st, 4x pubby_orc_utopia, 3x kennysheep_goblin_castle, 3x coc_dpeg, 3x lom_lobon_st, 2x sewer_kobolds, 2x se... 02:29:07 <|amethyst> !lg * cv=0.9 drown s=map 02:29:08 75 games for * (cv=0.9 drown): 17x, 12x sewer_kobolds, 11x sewer_minmay_treatment, 5x minmay_goblin_kobold_castle, 5x water_maze_lemuel, 3x statuecave_lemuel, 3x beehive, 2x sewer_co_purgy_island, 2x sewer_fruit_machine, 2x coc_dpeg, 2x ice_cave_small_giant, minmay_temple_bridge_a_8, mumra_spider_spiderweb, dpeg_entry_chase, coc_mu, cryptofortress_bobbens, ice_cave_caverns_02, water_boxes_lemuel, ... 02:29:46 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:30:11 hey speaking of the new stair-linking behavior (like an hour ago), i really think stairs should only become "known" if they are both seen AND pathable 02:30:17 <|amethyst> without even looking at it, I'm sure water_maze_lemuel is a paragon of fairness in vault design 02:30:43 that would solve the temple vault w/ entrance from below, and also a handful of other situations 02:31:17 <|amethyst> tedric: I'm not sure about pathability 02:32:09 <|amethyst> I was just thinking of requiring LOS_NO_TRANS 02:32:20 <|amethyst> but I guess grates and statues have the same issue as glass 02:32:39 and water, and lava 02:33:57 <|amethyst> my main concern about pathability is things like forms and flight, but I guess that's minor 02:34:17 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:26 the weird thing is if you see it through glass or whatever, and then later find a way around the glass without traveling to spot where the stairs are in LOS 02:34:32 <|amethyst> also things like travel_avoid_terrain but I suppose that is really mor of a benefit 02:34:55 temporary clouds would also throw it off 02:35:32 <|amethyst> !crashlog 02:35:33 13415. MakeMeASandwich, XL25 HuVM, T:65412 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/MakeMeASandwich/crash-MakeMeASandwich-20151208-043131.txt 02:35:43 <|amethyst> !crashlog -2 02:35:44 No milestones for -2 (crash). 02:35:48 <|amethyst> !crashlog * sprint 02:35:48 595. Surr, XL9 DsMo, T:2190 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Surr/crash-Surr-20151208-071203.txt 02:36:04 <|amethyst> oh right 02:36:10 <|amethyst> the thing I was looking for was in travis 02:36:36 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:36:47 <|amethyst> all three of those crashes in travis have been from los_csc.lua 02:37:02 <|amethyst> but running it locally over a few dozen seeds I have yet to crash 02:37:10 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:43 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:27 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:28 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 02:52:47 -!- Enthusiasm has quit [] 03:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:22 -!- tedric has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:01:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:04:00 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:57 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:08:04 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 03:14:02 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:56 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.18-a0-721-g8fc53f4 (34) 03:27:21 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:27:58 may i take the time to point out how good dcss autoexplore is compared to like every other roguelike that has it? 03:29:39 I'll allow it 03:31:25 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:49 heh 03:31:57 most of them don't even have it of course 03:32:07 which just makes you realize how much you miss it when they don't 03:32:44 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:32:45 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:17 -!- mopl_away is now known as mopl 03:45:22 there are developers that say if you need it, the design of your game is broken ;-) 03:49:23 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:56:08 -!- angelichorsey has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:00:02 -!- omarax has quit 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has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:57:33 -!- panicbit has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:00 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:20 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:01:46 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:15 -!- ldierk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:10:16 -!- kuniqs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:12:19 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:19:09 -!- joy1999 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:14 -!- joy1999 has quit [Quit: Http://www.ZeroIRC.NET �� Zero IRC �� Ver 2.9G] 08:35:02 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 08:35:57 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 08:47:45 -!- siepu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:16 -!- Surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:00 -!- donblas has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:08:27 is the option to run all tests just "-test" with no args? 09:10:47 oh, apparently one of the tests expects to fine shoals hut doors 09:10:54 and is probably confused by grunt's shoals end 09:11:17 hrm, but then it'd be confused by the hangedman end as well 09:11:23 maybe it's been confused that way for some time 09:15:22 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:48 well, looks like this passes all tests 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-58-gac72e46: Fix the targetter sometimes claiming the last square was hit twice. 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 74+ 94-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ac72e4667575 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-59-ga2cb8c9: Fix a dazzling spray crash. 10(23 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a2cb8c95ad9c 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-60-g6fd51c4: Make a function static. 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6fd51c4474a4 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-61-gff85356: Prevent using Gell's to move monsters onto deep water/lava (#10140). 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ff8535645bec 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-62-g6743109: Avoid unnecessary copying in making dancing/spectral weapons. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 2+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/674310942834 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-63-g7022f25: Warn properly when casting Tukima's on a dual-wielder (#10146). 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7022f251c663 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-64-gcf7c5d0: Remove a stray space. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cf7c5d02f273 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-65-g2d1b7fa: Warn when a beam might poison a monster under TSO (#6851). 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 13+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2d1b7fa006b7 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-66-gda1f115: Standardise prompt texts. 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/da1f11536f24 09:20:09 03wheals02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.17] * 0.17.0-67-ge64e463: Remove some more beam name checks. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e64e46331e70 09:20:09 ... and 6 more commits 09:20:56 -!- tollymain has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:24:00 !tell wheals I cherry-picked a bunch of your commits into 0.17. There were no conflicts, although I couldn't cherry-pick 0.18-a0-711-g1260679 since it was empty relative to 0.17, but the follow-up that reverted it and another commit were fine. 09:24:01 gammafunk: OK, I'll let wheals know. 09:24:18 !tell wheals Let me know if any of those are a problem of if I missed anything 09:24:19 gammafunk: OK, I'll let wheals know. 09:25:56 |amethyst: fwiw since I saw you talking about this earlier, in my (somewhat limited testing) it appeared that the "temple behind glass vaults" both had enough visible behind glass that you could see both the temple entrance and the > (and a path between them)... if this isn't the case, the situation with them is worse than I thought 09:27:43 |amethyst: as in, GT always seemed to work fine if the level was autoexplored fully 09:30:02 |amethyst: I just cherry-picked some more fixes into stable, going to tag maybe this evening, let me know if you see anything missing/wrong 09:31:05 |amethyst: I'm certainly not opposed to adding in some sort of pathability check though if there is a good way of going about it 09:31:57 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:26 regarding the temple thingy, the other vault that "breaks" is the altar behind glass walls one that's bigger than los can see from outside 09:38:14 <|amethyst> that was what I was thinking of 09:38:44 <|amethyst> but looking at it now, it looks like it's just wide enough that you can see the middle if you walk up to the glass 09:44:04 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:44:46 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:45:28 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:50 -!- siepu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:52:05 autoexploer doesnt do that though 09:53:06 <|amethyst> I was under the impression autoexplore tried to put explore horizon in view at least even if it isn't reachable 09:54:25 <|amethyst> hm 09:54:36 <|amethyst> you're right, apparently it does not 09:55:16 <|amethyst> In the first three levels I made with &Pnicolae_overflow_hidden_temple , autoexplore connected the path 09:55:19 <|amethyst> Fourth time it did not 10:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:11 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:23 yeah i dont understand the logic either 10:00:59 the case when one side of the vault has a single tile corridor going up, autoexplore seems to go a square further than it needs, but not all the way 10:01:02 @_@ 10:01:34 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:55 could always remove that vault or just say 'well its not significantly worse than current behaviour' 10:02:11 wonder if changing the stair direction would improve experience? 10:02:49 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:02:51 i've always hated that vault tho :P 10:02:55 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 10:06:50 ditto 10:13:46 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:58 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:22:28 yeah, I wouldn't mind just removing the early altar/temple stair vaults, and I'm not sure I remember any glass stair vaults later on other than elevator (which isn't an issue) 10:26:03 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:39:08 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 42.0/20151029151421]] 10:40:41 non-transparent elevator is annoying too 10:40:55 while we're on the subject, how about those isolated depths vaults 10:47:18 -!- geedmat_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:49:05 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:06 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:21 -!- Final has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:02:05 -!- Evablue has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16:41 -!- xtwv has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:22:15 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:31:05 -!- zer0code has quit [Client Quit] 11:35:06 -!- tedric has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:11 -!- mopl is now known as mopl_away 11:39:38 -!- ontoclasm has left ##crawl-dev 11:44:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:21 -!- molotove has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:53:39 -!- tedric_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:51 -!- tedric has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:18 -!- siepu_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:10 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:32 -!- Rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:20 -!- Rast- has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:33 Stable (0.17) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17.0-73-gb648821 12:23:49 -!- Kolbur has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:08 fr: remove portals of golubria from the map that you already stepped through 12:24:54 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:28:01 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.18-a0-721-g8fc53f4 (34) 12:37:55 -!- Gorgo__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:26 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:49 -!- AndChat58025 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:51 -!- Gorgo__ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:56:55 -!- zxc has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:12 -!- apparatus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:43 -!- GauHelldragon2 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:09:52 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:11:05 -!- OyGevalt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:12:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:25 -!- Arivia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:18:27 -!- tedric_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:20:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:22:04 -!- Rast-- has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:52 -!- Rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:48 -!- Ektor has quit [Quit: Allez, @_+ tlm :)] 13:31:22 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:16 -!- Arivia has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:32:47 <|amethyst> Silly WIP Nemelex proposal: http://sprunge.us/jdGI 13:33:02 <|amethyst> well, not really a proposal 13:33:06 <|amethyst> more brainstorming 13:33:44 <|amethyst> doesn't solve the real problem, which is the inventory slot thing 13:33:56 <|amethyst> but ideally a couple of the abilities will make you burn through decks faster 13:36:21 <|amethyst> !tell dpeg any feedback on my Nemelex brainstorming? http://sprunge.us/jdGI 13:36:21 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:37:33 how about merging pakellas and nemelex? :P 13:42:35 <|amethyst> !tell dpeg I probably should have called "Mise" "Go Fish" instead :) 13:42:35 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 13:43:05 -!- Nattefrost has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 13:45:23 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:49:59 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:54 -!- bleak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:05 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:31 |amethyst: about the slot thing, what if decks of the same type are automatically combined together? this means that we can't really have abilities that let you stack or peek at the deck, but the "hand" that you are proposing adding plays a similar role 14:06:32 the rummage ability in your list would need to be changed or replaced but the others would work I think 14:06:36 <|amethyst> hyperbolic: I guess it would work if you remove id-peek 14:06:46 right, and that could be removed 14:06:58 <|amethyst> hyperbolic: I had been thinking about that, but I kept coming up with situations where you'd want to keep decks separate 14:07:11 <|amethyst> but as long as different strengths don't merge, and you can't peek, it wouldn't be so bad 14:07:36 <|amethyst> Rummage could be "look through as many cards as you want, pick 2, and discard the rest" 14:08:19 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:23 to reduce slot usage further, could make nemelex only gift decks of a single type (which can contain every possible card) 14:08:24 <|amethyst> OTOH, it feels like no peeking greatly weakens decks for non-Nemelex 14:09:03 <|amethyst> hm... I kind of like being able to decide which kind of card to get, but I guess if you're using the hand you already get to do that 14:09:06 do players actually scroll-ID decks with non-Nemelex nowadays? I haven't been very impressed by doing so recently 14:09:36 if you want to fix the deck inventory issue you'd have to make all types usuable with 4-5 slots max 14:09:38 imo 14:09:52 <|amethyst> and that means you don't have to worry about "what if I want to rummage one destruction and one deck of dungeons 14:09:55 yes, i id decks 14:10:01 <|amethyst> " 14:10:18 especially id escape decks 14:10:39 <|amethyst> I do id decks hoping for elixir or alchemist, but then I don't actually end up using them even when I find them 14:10:42 -!- ZugAddict has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:53 and when it's a good card you have a panic button to carry around 14:10:54 <|amethyst> and I'm a bad player so I have no clue :) 14:11:16 Kolbur: yeah, it just feels like there are fewer really good cards now 14:12:55 how many types of decks are there currently? summoning, escape, destruction, wonders, war, ...? 14:13:47 <|amethyst> ??decks 14:13:48 I don't have a page labeled decks in my learndb. Did you mean: deck, ~deck. 14:13:49 <|amethyst> ??deck 14:13:50 deck[1/4]: A deck of intensely magical cards, in general significantly more powerful than scrolls, spells, or potions. Each deck contains 4-13 cards *independently* (no point counting) chosen according to 99% the deck's flavour, 1% the Deck of Oddities. See {deck of }, {card power}, { card}. 14:13:54 <|amethyst> ??deck[2] 14:13:55