00:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oldest supported g++ and newest released g++ (likewise clang) would be ideal, but I too fear combinatorics 00:01:25 gammafunk: ugh, i have no idea what's going on in your twitch video >8( 00:01:39 how can you tell what anything is? 00:03:14 yeah if we didn't have so many kinds of builds 00:04:26 gcc (Ubuntu 4.8.4-2ubuntu1~14.04) 4.8.4 00:04:30 please keep supporting 4.8 00:05:20 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:06:31 !function always_true 00:06:32 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/libutil.h#l94 00:06:54 well it's what it says on the can 00:07:49 hrm. why does always_true exist, instead of a template constantly(A a) {return [B b] => a;} or whatever the syntax for lambdas is? 00:08:52 -!- kaiza has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:45 gammafunk: lol that -9 chainmail of Limited Liability 00:10:56 -!- foophykins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:11:33 you sure do know how to pick 'em 00:12:47 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-2003-gd348506: Add juggernauts and stormcallers to ziggurats and adjust monster sets 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 8+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d34850609a66 00:15:26 nice HEFi story gf 00:15:52 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:17:01 !lm gammafunk mibe swamp:1 max=dam x=dam 00:17:02 31. [2015-10-07 05:22:22] [dam=] gammafunk the Severer (L11 MiBe of Trog) entered the Swamp on turn 5080. (Lair:3) 00:17:06 !lg gammafunk mibe swamp:1 max=dam x=dam 00:17:07 2. [dam=99] gammafunk the Severer (L12 MiBe of Trog), blown up by Araefel's ghost on Swamp:1 (infiniplex_staircase_pool_2) on 2015-10-07 05:26:03, with 17304 points after 5226 turns and 0:46:01. 00:17:14 good death 00:17:36 yeah at least I did win it 00:17:38 !lg . won 1 00:17:39 1/33. gammafunk the Farming Conqueror (L27 HEFi of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-11-13 09:00:56, with 6540706 points after 286452 turns and 1d+7:33:39. 00:17:54 !lg . won 1 x=gid 00:17:54 1/33. [game_key=gammafunk:cszo:20121008015229S] gammafunk the Farming Conqueror (L27 HEFi of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-11-13 09:00:56, with 6540706 points after 286452 turns and 1d+7:33:39. 00:18:10 !lm . milestone~~abyss gid=game_key=gammafunk:cszo:20121008015229S 00:18:11 No milestones for gammafunk (milestone~~abyss gid=game_key=gammafunk:cszo:20121008015229S). 00:18:14 hrm 00:18:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:19:05 btw you could hide the chat window using adblock 00:19:29 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-2002-g92c7e20 (34) 00:19:54 I just minimize it usually 00:20:00 if you're talking to me about the stream vid 00:20:15 well not minimize, keep it close? sometimes I forget to though 00:20:28 <|amethyst> amalloy: always_true could be replaced with lambdas at this point; it predates our move to C++11 00:20:49 true, you could just write the lambda in place each time 00:20:53 but it's nice to have const 00:21:38 <|amethyst> also, with your template you'd have to explicitly specify B 00:21:54 so when's the move to pure lua scheduled? 00:22:21 hm. can you use auto and get type inference? i imagine not 00:22:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:22:40 <|amethyst> amalloy: what would you infer B from? 00:22:52 gammafunk: i mean more for the viewers than you 00:23:13 just add user css to set its display: none; 00:23:32 whatever is calling the lambda knows what type of lambda it expects to receive. like haskell can figure that out. but i'm not surprised C++ can't 00:23:49 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:24:15 the better way to do this is to use obs to put something over the area 00:24:21 which I'll probably do anyhow 00:24:25 <|amethyst> whatever is calling the lambda might be far away from whatever is calling constantly 00:25:16 right, which is why i'm not surprised you can't figure it out automatically. it was a vague hope 00:28:04 Porkation removes items on mercenaries. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=10000 by WildSam 00:28:34 ...that's what brings home the bacon 00:28:35 <|amethyst> amalloy: it would be possible to do, though 00:29:04 <|amethyst> amalloy: you could make constantly(X) return an object of a class that has a templatised operator() 00:29:34 c++ woo 00:30:08 ah, i see 00:30:28 this is so much harder than: const a b = a 00:30:35 (but i understand why) 00:33:53 <|amethyst> hm 00:34:07 <|amethyst> I guess in C++14 you could probably use a generic lambda for that 00:35:50 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:01 ??rcfile 00:36:01 rcfile[1/3]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/options_guide.txt 00:36:15 -!- JellieJels has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:04 <|amethyst> amalloy: ah, this does work in C++11 00:37:25 <|amethyst> template auto constantly(Ret val) { return [=] (auto x) { return val; }; } 00:37:55 aha! 00:38:31 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:39:02 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:41:49 <|amethyst> err 00:41:51 <|amethyst> C++14 that is 00:42:10 <|amethyst> C++11 doesn't have generic lambdas (with auto parameters) 00:43:29 need to remember what that [=] does, again 00:44:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it means any names mentioned inside the lambda that don't come from the lambda arguments should be captured by value 00:44:17 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: This is not a desk. It is not being flipped.] 00:44:27 <|amethyst> could write [val] instead here 00:44:44 oh, yes 00:45:50 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:46:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:42 cerealjynx (L27 TrCK) ERROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 556: mid cache bogosity: mid 8235 points to DEAD MONSTER mindex=22 mid=0 (Abyss:3) 00:48:09 is there some way to 'add one' to a character like 'f' 00:48:16 can I just do 'f' + 1 to get 'g' 00:48:29 <|amethyst> you can, but what is this for? 00:48:30 yes 00:48:40 !source _find_ability_slot 00:48:40 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/ability.cc#l3430 00:48:44 if (you_worship(GOD_ELYVILON)) 00:48:44 first_slot = letter_to_index('h'); 00:48:46 you do exactly that 00:49:03 I want if (species_is_draconian(you.species) and you.experience_level < 7) first_slot = letter_to_index('h'); 00:49:03 but it's generally pretty horrible practice 00:49:13 but if you're a drac who worships ely, these will overlap 00:50:04 <|amethyst> two things: 1. you could just as well do letter_to_index('h') + 1 00:50:12 <|amethyst> 2. you have to be careful about wrapping 00:50:40 that happens with more situations than just that combination, too 00:50:55 i can't think of any off the top of my head, but i know i've encountered a few 00:51:01 wrapping? as in ascii number layout? 00:51:27 <|amethyst> chequers: yes, you wouldn't want to go from 'z' to '{' 00:51:30 i don't get 1. I was just going to change the line to first_slot += 1 00:51:37 -!- Valarioth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:38 yeah. no risk of such wrapping here 00:51:46 <|amethyst> first_slot isn't a character anyway 00:51:49 <|amethyst> it's an integer 00:52:30 just wondered if adding 1 to a character was sensible c++ or not 00:52:55 <|amethyst> it is 00:53:00 "sensible c++" 00:53:19 <|amethyst> if there's no risk of such wrapping, you should at least add ASSERT(first_slot < 52) 00:54:02 <|amethyst> otherwise that for (int slot = first_slot - 1; slot >= 0; --slot) loop would bounds error when subscripting ability_letter_table 00:54:20 cerealjynx (L27 TrCK) ERROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 556: mid cache bogosity: mid 7076 points to bone dragon mindex=22 mid=7190 (Abyss:3) 00:56:13 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:35 why does ely reserve two slots? 00:57:01 afaict ely uses a-e so starting abilities at f like normal is fine 00:57:09 <|amethyst> because that hasn't been updated since lesser healing was removed 00:57:25 :) 00:57:43 last question. Is this appropriate syntax, or should I brace 00:57:44 if (species_is_draconian(you.species) 00:57:44 and you.experience_level < 7) 00:57:45 <|amethyst> hm 00:57:45 first_slot += 1; 00:58:19 <|amethyst> our style guide says to brace it if the condition is multiple lines 00:58:34 <|amethyst> also, I'd prefer "&&" to "and" 00:58:38 almost all style guides agree 00:58:45 sorry... python 00:59:05 <|amethyst> hypractvChipmunk: well, ours is weird in that it says *not* to brace it if both the conditional and body are single lines 00:59:31 <|amethyst> hypractvChipmunk: rather than just 'always brace' 00:59:34 that's not terribly weird 00:59:38 -!- Siveran_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:49 <|amethyst> or 'you *may* omit the braces if...' 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:18 but i've never seen any that don't brace on multiline conditionals; that would be really weird 01:00:21 heh 01:00:25 <|amethyst> hm 01:00:27 okay, if it forces you not to, that's weird 01:00:42 <|amethyst> actually, I guess our style guide just says "may" 01:00:59 <|amethyst> OTOH, util/unbrace does it always 01:01:27 -!- Brannock has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:27 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:01:46 may i state for the record that i think the style guide for dcss is awful? 01:02:01 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:44 <|amethyst> only if you like to belabour the obvious :) 01:02:49 oh i do 01:02:55 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:03:28 i just want to make sure nobody thinks that my using it implies in any way that i like it 01:03:39 i have my dignity 01:04:32 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:33 thanks for the advice |amethyst 01:05:04 <|amethyst> I can think of several things I would like to change 01:05:39 wonder if there's an automattic reformatter that could restyle dcss code 01:05:49 <|amethyst> chequers: clang-format 01:06:07 <|amethyst> we'd need to teach it our style (and maybe tweak our style a bit to be expressible) 01:06:34 the case labels irk me 01:07:02 <|amethyst> hypractvChipmunk: you mean not double-indenting switch bodies? 01:07:08 <|amethyst> one of my biggest annoyances is that our style guide forces you to write non-compliant code: 01:07:15 yeah; i know it has its logic 01:07:17 <|amethyst> Internal functions are prefixed with underscores. 01:07:17 <|amethyst> static void _remove_from_inventory(item_def* item); 01:07:18 but i still don't like it 01:07:26 oh god don't get me started on that 01:07:34 <|amethyst> that is not legal in C++ 01:07:41 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:07:55 <|amethyst> ("that" = starting something in the global namespace with an underscore) 01:08:10 reserved for standard library 01:08:16 or somesuch 01:08:23 so what is weird about the c++ style anyway? 01:08:25 <|amethyst> for the implementation 01:08:31 right, that 01:08:41 New branch created: pull/130 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/130 01:08:42 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/130 * 0.17-a0-2001-g2c66334: Remove ability slot reservation for Lesser Healing (|amethyst) 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c663349c96b 01:08:42 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/130 * 0.17-a0-2002-gbc4b023: Guard against potential future ability slot reservation overflow (|amethyst) 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bc4b023bd238 01:08:42 03chequers02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/130 * 0.17-a0-2003-ga79fc1b: Reserve the first ability slot for Draconian breath (milski) 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a79fc1b2d122 01:08:47 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-2003-gd348506 (34) 01:08:52 foo_t is the one i was thinking of, maybe 01:09:00 also not supposed to use that 01:09:18 |amethyst: how would those static functions be named ideally? 01:09:31 <|amethyst> hypractvChipmunk: that's Posix, though, not the language 01:09:46 just no leading character, and you should use code editors to figure out things like static or not? 01:09:52 <|amethyst> but since we include posix headers 01:10:00 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:10:05 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no leading character, and why does it matter whether it's static? 01:10:30 it reminds me whether I'm going to need to think about header files, I guess 01:10:42 if it doesn't compile, then you need to think about header files >8) 01:10:51 not that the compiler doesn't remind me of this 01:11:59 wow. clang-format is pretty amazing 01:12:08 <|amethyst> but if you don't need to think about header files, you need to think about whether the use precedes the definition and if so whether you have a prototype at the top of the .cpp file 01:12:08 it aligns previously unaligned comments that should have been aligned 01:12:11 it is very good 01:12:40 you mean the .cc file >8) 01:12:49 * hypractvChipmunk twitches. 01:13:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:20 <|amethyst> but, yeah, I am of the opinion that if you programming environment doesn't give you a way to see the definition and/or declaration of a function, it is a bad programming environment 01:13:26 <|amethyst> grep can do that even... 01:13:33 <|amethyst> s/you p/your p/ 01:14:42 yeah, makes sense. It's probably just the strange sense of comfort I get when I'm writing a function and I see that the function I need is _something 01:14:57 hehe 01:14:59 "oh, I'm supposed to use that. thank goodness it's not a scary global function!" 01:15:32 <|amethyst> but it is a global function 01:15:43 <|amethyst> ideally we'd use namespaces in more than a couple of files 01:16:12 yeah my notion of global in C++ is horribly skewed by crawl's use of source files as "namespace" 01:16:53 it's more "thank goodness i don't have to touch a header file!" 01:17:39 in orc news: average orc end xp: 12657.08 01:17:50 pubby orc end xp: 21666.75 01:18:12 pubby? 01:18:31 holy crap and average orc end number of monsters: 87.49, pubby number of monsters: 233.13 01:18:39 <|amethyst> !vault utopia 01:18:41 Can't find utopia. 01:18:46 <|amethyst> !vault pubby_orc 01:18:48 Can't find pubby_orc. 01:18:54 !vault pubby_orc_utopia 01:18:54 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/orc.des#l1949 01:19:10 he has a lot of 0 that he shouldn't place 01:19:24 I'm balancing/refactoring it, but wanted to see what the actual numbers were 01:19:44 average means "average without pubby's vault placing" 01:19:50 for the former numbers 01:20:22 crawl code seems to use a lot of ternaries 01:20:23 <|amethyst> for the whole level, right? 01:20:33 where perhaps other code would use case/select 01:20:36 yeah for orc:4 01:20:39 since pubby's is encompass 01:21:03 so I compare the whole level with and without his vault 01:21:25 heh, that one's a beast 01:21:55 probably I'll just remove these 74 0 he places 01:22:21 well not quite that, he places them strategically but that'll be the general idea 01:23:13 -!- tealeaves has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:36 <|amethyst> gammafunk: a more general problem with that vault is that there isn't much randomness 01:24:33 here i thought the fortress volcano i made was a bit oversized... 01:24:37 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I guess there's some alternation of monsters, and some purely cosmetic alternation in the spot that replaces enter_elven_halls 01:24:59 yeah, it's true there are not too many randomized monsters 01:25:14 otoh it's such a big map with so many that it's really hard to notice 01:25:22 but with fewer placing I'll use more randomness 01:25:34 <|amethyst> well, it's not just monsters 01:25:41 <|amethyst> there is no randomness in the map 01:25:57 <|amethyst> other than rotation/flipping 01:26:02 sometimes there's not a plant! 01:26:15 this is going to tend to be the case in a map that's pretty structural and encompass 01:26:21 but it could use some pathing perhaps 01:26:33 the thing is it doesn't really obstruct any path 01:26:46 so most of the randomness would be fairly cosmetic 01:27:07 some randomizing of the shop guards would be nice at least 01:27:08 <|amethyst> hm 01:27:18 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:39 and I think that central "city area" before the branching areas with the four cells 01:27:43 is a good area to randomize 01:27:57 well there's a lot you could do really but 01:27:58 that was something i wanted to learn how to do with that fortress concept...ideally you could have the common thematic rooms as modular units that could be assembled randomly 01:28:05 I'm probably going to just get the monster count sane 01:28:22 and somewhat more randomized and maybe leave improving the layout itself to another commit 01:28:27 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:29:03 <|amethyst> hypractvChipmunk: we have subvaults for that, though AIUI they are sometimes finicky 01:29:27 <|amethyst> maybe all the known bugs about subvaults are closed by now? 01:29:53 at the very least, those water and lava "trap" areas should hold the potential to be interesting even for someone who's looked at the DES 01:30:35 (at least, i call them trap areas because i can totally see myself dying when a source of flight expires as i try to see what's across them) 01:31:17 style question: bool check_moveto_terrain(const coord_def& p, const string &move_verb... 01:31:32 is the different & alignment intentional? 01:32:11 |amethyst: if those bugs are still out there, I'll likely run into them and fix them 01:32:11 <|amethyst> chequers: no, it's that different people disagree on where to put it, and our style guide doesn't say 01:32:44 <|amethyst> I prefer the latter, but that's kind of old-fashioned and C-ish 01:32:59 <|amethyst> OTOH, the former is misleading when you declare multiple variables on the same line 01:33:09 <|amethyst> int* x, y; does not define two pointers 01:33:13 yeah, i can't relieve myself of that habit, despite what is "logical" 01:33:41 oh yeah, I'd probably just assume it did if I read that 01:34:19 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:34:20 <|amethyst> OT3H you probably shouldn't write that regardless of where you put the * :) 01:34:27 >8) 01:35:00 |amethyst: people do it sometimes in for-initializers 01:35:13 well 01:35:16 not in c they don't >8p 01:35:29 well, this is a reasonable fascimile of crawl's style: clang-format -i -style="{BasedOnStyle: webkit, IndentWidth: 4, BreakBeforeBraces: Allman, ColumnLimit: 80, SpacesBeforeTrailingComments: 1, AlignAfterOpenBracket: true}" player.cc 01:35:34 i guess it depends what you mean by "that". never mind, i'm not really following and will not be helpful butting in 01:35:41 go back to your corner 01:35:56 here's a cookie 01:35:58 i mean, there are big changes, and it really screws up big nested blocks like crawl's 5 line multi-ternary things 01:36:12 i love 5-line multi-ternaries 01:36:20 i got to use one in one of my pull requests 01:36:45 I can't figure out how to make it leave those alone, or format then crawl does 01:36:57 you end up with these blocks that just continuously indent and are way less readable 01:37:00 crawl has a format for that? 01:37:13 it probably sucks 01:38:17 <|amethyst> IIRC it's not very consistent 01:38:40 it probably says, like, leave the colon on the preceding line and then indent to align the ?s with the equal sign 01:39:19 but yeah, i'm pretty sure there were at least two completely different variations in the code i saw, so i just used my own preference 01:39:58 a lot of blocks have their own style to maximise readability 01:40:21 eg check out the one in 01:40:24 !source bless_weapon 01:40:25 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc#l114 01:40:42 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc#L175 01:41:15 clang-format can do a lot of things to that line, but none of them are pretty 01:46:42 -!- WildSam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:47:39 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:49:20 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-2004-ge62ed07: Break an overly long line. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e62ed07890de 01:49:54 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:19 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:55:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:59:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:35 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:55 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-2005-gc0021b2: Simplify. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c0021b2f1af2 02:06:55 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-2006-g94b6906: Don't use c_str in take_note arguments. 10(4 minutes ago, 17 files, 27+ 29-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/94b6906bdd4d 02:08:40 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:09:53 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:34 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:26 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:11:43 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:16:17 i really hate this game... 02:21:44 -!- BlackGyver has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:22:02 !lg hypractvChipmunk 02:22:02 333. hyperactiveChipmunk the Firebug (L1 GrFE), slain by a kobold on D:1 on 2015-10-08 06:16:06, with 5 points after 201 turns and 0:01:10. 02:23:38 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:24:15 * hypractvChipmunk scowls. 02:28:05 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:53 -!- Jels has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:04 -!- JellieJels has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:50 heh 02:39:39 !lg . -2 02:39:40 332/333. hyperactiveChipmunk the Firebug (L1 GrFE), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0 club) on D:1 on 2015-10-08 06:14:51, with 0 points after 38 turns and 0:00:19. 02:39:43 !lg . -3 02:39:44 331/333. hyperactiveChipmunk the Firebug (L1 GrFE), slain by a goblin (a +0 club) on D:1 on 2015-10-08 06:14:25, with 1 point after 84 turns and 0:00:32. 02:40:05 yeah, it's been that kind of night 02:45:02 heh 02:45:03 happens 02:45:33 pick up a weapon, sticks to your hand, three miscasts, splat 02:46:17 run around for two levels with a cursed sling and only 4 stones 02:46:41 ooh, things are lookin' up! found book of fire 02:47:18 back a few days ago in my first game with fire elementalist, i got a book of fire and ended up falling in love with the role....except half of what i loved turned out to be from that book 02:47:22 and i haven't gotten one since 02:47:53 now i just need a spear of venom and i'll be happy 02:48:10 i do have a blowgun though 02:48:52 -!- NecroBanana has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:30 yeah bolt of fire is nicer than fireball usually 02:49:43 -!- shrinkshooter has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:50:03 i just like conjure flame + inner flame + ignite poison 02:50:12 though bolt of fire is solid, for sure 02:50:13 sticky flame and a large blunt object are a pretty solid way to go with FE 02:50:34 i was devastated when i found out ignite poison wasn't in the starting book after that first game 02:50:34 so 1/3 of what you loved was from the book you mean 02:50:48 yeah, but that was the one that made it all work 02:50:56 then again i turn virtually everything that isn't a deep elf into at least a part time melee-er 02:52:58 deep elves can generally be part-time melee-ers too 02:53:26 staff or sblade can save you some MP on popcorn 02:53:38 oh, i like to lajatang it up with a deep elf 02:53:42 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 02:53:52 but i'm considerably more leery about actually running up and whacking dudes with a deep elf 02:54:03 they dont have as much hp 02:54:50 -!- Idolo has quit [] 02:55:29 yeah, and you can't get away with as good of armor as you can with say a tengu 02:55:31 generally 02:55:32 ignite poison so powerful <3 02:55:42 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:55:56 pull out blowgun, fwit fwit, boom 02:56:09 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:56:33 a lot of people hate new ignite poison compared to what it used to do 02:56:45 but 3 mp is pretty cheap 02:58:59 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:23 ooh, staff of wizardry too 03:00:30 now we're cookin' 03:02:46 see, the great thing about it is that you can get poison and inner flame on a whole bunch of guys before they reach the chokepoint and then detonate them all together with ignite poison 03:02:56 it's beautiful 03:08:49 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 03:08:50 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:10:23 oops >8( 03:10:42 apparently that guy had inner flame still >8x 03:11:35 !lg . x=dam,mhp 03:11:36 334. [dam=38;mhp=41] hyperactiveChipmunk the Firebug (L8 GrFE of Vehumet), blasted by an orc wizard (exploding inner flame) (hexed by the player character) on D:7 on 2015-10-08 07:10:23, with 1540 points after 8579 turns and 0:45:15. 03:12:25 i blame it on 3 am 03:12:37 night, guys <3 03:12:42 -!- hypractvChipmunk is now known as hC|zzz 03:15:12 -!- cjm has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:41 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-2006-g94b6906 (34) 03:31:06 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:31:35 otr + ignite poison is great 03:31:38 oh, he went to bed 03:32:33 -!- mibe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:42:17 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 03:42:35 -!- CcS_ is now known as CacoS 03:42:46 -!- zero_one has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:43:22 -!- waat has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:46:26 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:53:42 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:53:45 -!- infrasho1tfoo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:09 -!- CacoS has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:55:19 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:59:17 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:57 !lg * recent place=orc:4 s=ikiller 04:01:58 7003 games for * (recent place=orc:4): 1189x an orc high priest, 858x an orc warrior, 636x an orc sorcerer, 622x an orc knight, 542x an orc priest, 514x an orc warlord, 494x Saint Roka, 219x an ettin, 173x a stone giant, 160x, 109x an ogre mage, 109x a two-headed ogre, 105x a cyclops, 103x an ogre, 93x the player character, 80x Nessos, 79x a troll, 57x an orc, 47x Azrael, 40x a warg, 38x an orc wi... 04:02:20 !lg * recent place=orc:4 s=ikiller% 04:02:21 7003 games for * (recent place=orc:4): 1189x an orc high priest (16.98%), 858x an orc warrior (12.25%), 636x an orc sorcerer (9.08%), 622x an orc knight (8.88%), 542x an orc priest (7.74%), 514x an orc warlord (7.34%), 494x Saint Roka (7.05%), 219x an ettin (3.13%), 173x a stone giant (2.47%), 160x (2.28%), 109x an ogre mage (1.56%), 109x a two-headed ogre (1.56%), 105x a cyclops (1.50%), 103x an ... 04:07:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:14:16 that's a lot of kills for azrael 04:14:57 he's not fun to encounter that early 04:15:17 no 04:15:47 although last time i ran into him that early i did appreciate how he was so committed to hellfiring me that he killed all of his minions too 04:18:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:03 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:26:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:58 -!- Yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:37:56 chequers: https://github.com/ademesmay/crawl 04:38:27 chequers: it is stupidly simple so far 04:42:00 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:27 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:55 -!- ___miek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:01 ventricule: stupidly simple = the best kind of simple there is 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:10 -!- infrasho1tfoo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:30 -!- Evablue_ has quit [Quit: Evablue_] 05:24:16 dpeg: I wanted to ask you something that I read on tvtropes about crawl, that I think is patently false: 05:24:24 "Nemelex Xobeh, the trickster god, is a fairly obvious reference to Yu-Gi-Oh!. Their followers are given magical decks of cards that allow them to summon monsters, cast powerful spells, and lay traps. They are encouraged to fight with these cards as much as possible and as they advance in the faith they get powers that let them peek at their cards, top-deck the cards they want, etc. (Remember in the 05:24:30 original Japanese version of Yu-Gi-Oh! it was a plot point that Yugi/Atem was in fact actually cheating.) Even their in-game description gets in on the fun, stopping just short of actually including the phrase "heart of the cards." (For reference, the phrase it uses is "trust in the cards.")" 05:24:36 is any of that true? 05:24:54 as I recall you invented nem 05:27:01 there's a fair amount of inaccuracy about crawl on tvtropes 05:27:09 or at least there was the last time i bothered to look 05:27:18 like it used to say you could run into sigmund on d:1 05:27:23 Given how many entries are on that page, I'm not surprised at all 05:27:35 it's endless 05:27:39 heh 05:27:42 yeah 05:27:46 c'mon gammafunk, it's obvious. they both feature cards, and the phrase "the cards" 05:28:12 some of 'em may have even been true when they were put on the page 05:28:38 nemlex and yugioh are both three syllables 05:29:10 I'm thinking of dpeg getting really excited about Yu-Gi-Oh! back in like 1998 05:29:28 maybe because he follows all the latest japanese mangas? 05:30:00 I'm also not sure if it was dpeg who originally invented the god, or if it was just he who proposed a lot of the conducts or something 05:30:39 the first thing I said was a joke, but the second thing was serious, as I could be misremembering about his actually inventing nem 05:32:14 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-2007-g96ac4c4: Balance and clean up an Orc end vault 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 78+ 77-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/96ac4c4e0d02 05:34:03 heh 05:38:03 i had that orc ending in at least my last two games, maybe more 05:38:32 i am probably totally wrong about this, but it seems like it's been a lot recently 05:46:32 it should have the same weight as other ends, but 05:46:56 it's possible that there's an inherent added weight due to something like levels getting vetoed and that vault never getting rejected 05:47:01 due to it being encompass 05:47:22 I tried to use mapstat to check but mapstat doesn't seem to want to count end vaults 05:47:25 not sure why 05:48:03 we could certainly lower the weight, since it's still got a lot more enemies compared to the other ends 05:48:49 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:50:38 oh weird it's saying no maps have generated 05:50:40 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:47 maybe something broke mapstat recently 05:51:30 it also doesn't list the end vaults as even available 05:51:40 I'll have to look into that 05:52:47 !lg * current trunk place=orc:4 kmap!= s=kmap% 05:52:49 1593 games for * (current trunk place=orc:4 kmap!=): 199x pubby_orc_utopia (12.49%), 159x grunt_orc_garden (9.98%), 142x pf_orc_diabolical (8.91%), 106x grunt_orc_cross (6.65%), 102x st_orc_congregation (6.40%), 99x st_orc_rangers (6.21%), 95x st_orc_pillars (5.96%), 87x grunt_orc_community_town_hall (5.46%), 82x uniq_saint_roka (5.15%), 81x st_orc_open (5.08%), 66x st_orc_elflike (4.14%), 55x st_... 05:53:52 !lg * current trunk place=orc:4 kmap=pubby_orc_utopia s=ikiller% 05:53:53 199 games for * (current trunk place=orc:4 kmap=pubby_orc_utopia): 44x Saint Roka (22.11%), 38x an orc warrior (19.10%), 23x an ettin (11.56%), 21x an orc warlord (10.55%), 12x an orc priest (6.03%), 11x a stone giant (5.53%), 11x an orc high priest (5.53%), 11x an orc knight (5.53%), 6x an orc sorcerer (3.02%), 5x an ogre (2.51%), 5x an orc (2.51%), 3x a cyclops (1.51%), 2x the player character (... 05:53:58 !lg * current trunk place=orc:4 kmap!=pubby_orc_utopia s=ikiller% 05:53:59 2324 games for * (current trunk place=orc:4 kmap!=pubby_orc_utopia): 388x an orc high priest (16.70%), 286x an orc warrior (12.31%), 237x an orc sorcerer (10.20%), 201x an orc knight (8.65%), 158x an orc warlord (6.80%), 151x an orc priest (6.50%), 141x Saint Roka (6.07%), 64x (2.75%), 64x an ettin (2.75%), 49x a stone giant (2.11%), 47x Azrael (2.02%), 37x the player character (1.59%), 32x a two-... 05:58:58 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:59:08 gammafunk: I didn't invent Nemelex :) 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:15 gammafunk: Nemelex has been there since 3.10 06:01:18 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:history 06:02:05 At some time (I forgot when), Haran and I overhauled Nemelex completely. That was when he got the active powers (draw three, stack five etc... these were my ideas, as were the different deck rarities). 06:02:33 ah, but he had card effects and all that back in 3.10? 06:02:38 I can say that I've had zero influence by Yu-Gi-Oh. 06:03:00 I kind of doubt the original creator was influenced by Yu-Gi-Oh either 06:03:18 gammafunk: yes, so Linley might have been influenced by Yu-Gi-Oh. But I am pretty sure that this is complete nonsense, because the names of the card sound totally like medieval Tarot, and that's something we preserved. 06:03:27 yes 06:03:51 so that's trope certainly false :) 06:04:09 The person who wrote that probably just took something they saw in crawl and associated with something from their childhood 06:04:38 exactly 06:04:46 sadly I can't really cite anything that proves it's nonsense, but I'm sure the author of that entry can't cite any support either 06:05:16 the idea about the deck rarities is inspired by CCGs (collectible card games, such as Magic or Pokemon) but only in a very abstract sense: I just knew these things exist, nothing more 06:05:55 did Yu-Gu-Oh even exist ten years ago? 06:06:09 And was it popular in Australia? I doubt it. 06:06:12 it existed around like 1998 or so 06:06:36 ok 06:07:00 nothing about the card names or mechanics is really reminiscent of yu gi oh 06:07:02 yeah not seen in cartoon form in the US until 2002 06:07:02 but I'd hazard that if someone in Australia was inspired by an actual card game around that time, it'd definitely have been Magic 06:07:16 right, Magic would have been a much more likely source 06:07:31 but like I said, it reeks a lot more of Tarot, and what I know of/think about Linley really makes more sense that way 06:07:39 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:52 -!- aaaa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:07:52 Well thanks for the info, I'll probably see if I can get the entry changed somehow 06:07:58 even though it's pointless, it bothers me somehow 06:08:05 don't worry, it's a fun misconception 06:08:14 if only we'd removed Nem this wouldn't happen!!!! 06:08:15 it's funny how it states it's not only a reference but an obvious reference 06:08:31 yeah I'm sure half the entries on tvtropes are like that 06:08:32 like maud being a fairly obvious reference to nethack 06:08:34 gammafunk: well, that's a major point in favour of removal, can't argue with that 06:09:31 we briefly talked about removal back then... should've jumped the ship right there... pity we were strong enough for spieces removal, but not for god removal 06:15:39 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:17:38 -!- pintc has quit [Changing host] 06:18:42 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:22:10 -!- infrasho1tfoo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:22:20 I am sure gammafunk left to remove Nemmy 06:25:15 ventricule: whats your branch called? 06:26:25 oh, just in master 06:27:45 -!- ___miek has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:30:33 -!- gammafun1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:59 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:34:18 chequers : don't look now I found the bug 06:34:32 chequers : I just forgot to seed the initial dungeon generation 06:37:09 -!- gammafun1 has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:38:08 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:45:32 -!- Sage1234 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:56:02 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:58:30 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:58 chequers : now the baseline works 07:16:47 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:11 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:29:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:06 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:06 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:31 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:31 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:46 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:57 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:37 -!- CcS has quit 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##crawl-dev 11:27:57 -!- CacoS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:28 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:44:27 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:29 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:06 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:20 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 11:54:07 -!- radinms has quit [] 11:57:10 -!- mtyson has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:37 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:17 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:11:58 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:16:05 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:19:26 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:36 -!- uJellie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:21:07 -!- infrasho1tfoo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:55 -!- Bamboomancer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:58 New branch created: pull/131 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/131 12:23:58 03DrKe02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/131 * 0.17-a0-2008-gea97e06: Update another xl_rank_name 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ea97e06f6d4a 12:39:40 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:42:15 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:42 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:43:52 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:44:10 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:58 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:50:37 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 12:54:02 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:03 |amethyst: i don't know anything about dgamelaunch or how easy it would be to change but https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?t=17917 is right up your alley 13:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:18 <|amethyst> funny thing is, lowercase but not uppercase "y" was always accepted 13:00:44 <|amethyst> I just (a few hours ago, when I saw that) modified the copies on CSZO and CAO to use uppercase 13:01:04 <|amethyst> s/use/accept/ 13:01:41 <|amethyst> I need to figure out what to do with those re: git 13:01:59 <|amethyst> they've been diverging forever because the config is also in the same repo 13:03:52 <|amethyst> and because I/we don't have a test instance set up anywhere, I'm usually making my changes in the deployed copy :/ 13:07:26 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:55 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:05 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:18:14 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-2007-g96ac4c4 (34) 13:18:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:19:59 -!- Earlo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:08 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:25 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:28 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:32:31 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:34:55 -!- swartzcr has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:37:36 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:39:41 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:39:53 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:01 wheals: entered the orcish mines at XL16? Where'd ya get all that XP? 13:47:21 i just did lair and d 13:47:28 !apt na xl 13:47:29 Could not understand "xl" 13:47:31 !apt xl 13:47:32 Could not understand "xl" 13:47:36 !apt xp 13:47:36 Could not understand "xp" 13:47:40 welp 13:47:48 Oh, I see -- not doing the no-lair challenge 13:48:03 yeah, i'm just planning on the tier i 13:49:45 though i'm not sure how i'm planning to get to the abyss 13:50:24 -!- G-Flex| is now known as G-Flex 13:50:40 IMO it's worth finishing Depths before going to the abyss. As a side benefit, you get portals to the abyss. 13:51:26 ... 13:51:33 you just want me to die to a juggernaut, don't you :P 13:51:49 WHO TOLD . . . no. 13:52:12 I ended up going D->Orc->D->Elf->Depths->Abyss 13:52:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:22 rip 13:56:59 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:17 Lasty_: so you'd suggest doing Elf before Depths? 13:58:03 (i do elf so rarely these days (which is a relative term, since i haven't played this far for around a year) that it totally slipped my mind) 13:59:47 wheals: elf has no shrikes and juggernauts, and depths does have elves 13:59:47 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:59:51 plus elves don't much like Meph 14:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:18 I had a lot of MR tho; YMMV 14:00:27 na do have nice MR 14:00:36 Still got banished once when I didn't slip on my amulet of {inacc, MR+} on in time :p 14:00:41 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:46 that's what i'm shooting for! 14:00:49 haha 14:00:54 then srsly do elf 14:01:06 it's like a banishment factory 14:01:57 also i can't believe i forgot naga have +3 poison apt and i've been carrying around annihilations all this time 14:01:59 parrow here i come 14:03:05 man, playing tiles feels so weird 14:03:20 haha, yeah, that's pretty much the best thing you could find 14:03:28 Tiles?? 14:03:28 Blasphemy! Tiles do not exist! 14:06:29 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:34 -!- hC|zzz is now known as hypractvChipmunk 14:08:27 nerds 14:15:31 what about nerds 14:15:39 -!- NecroBanana has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 14:19:55 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:32:46 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 14:33:16 i was addressing the channel; we're all nerds 14:53:56 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:56:14 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:56 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:59:27 i went D:O:D:E:U:J:U:V (couldn't finish depths without the vaults xp) 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:03 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:47 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:56 which one is J? 15:06:04 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:08:01 abyss 15:08:27 (you can figure out that it must be even if you don't recognize the letter, because i couldn't get to V without a rune) 15:08:30 ah, basically same plan as me :) 15:08:34 What'd you do for 3rd rune? 15:08:38 tomb 15:08:45 ah 15:08:53 ... I hate tomb.. 15:09:06 backed out early on in tomb:2 to try hell instead, but the vestibule was a debacle 15:09:14 I think I might do pan instead 15:09:16 I have cblink 15:09:28 gosh, where did you get all that xp 15:09:33 !gameinfo Lasty 15:09:35 Lasty the L24 NaWz^Dith in Abyss:3 (cdo console), T:71045, runes: 1 (abyssal), defenses: 23/19/8, stats: 10/30/24, >15 skills: Spellcasting,Conjurations,Translocations 15:09:40 My abyss trip took for fucking ever 15:09:42 i barely had dispersal online by the end of my game 15:09:52 !lg amalloy -log 15:09:53 329. amalloy, XL27 NaWz, T:75655: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/amalloy/morgue-amalloy-20151007-084812.txt 15:10:02 i guess you have a lot more int 15:10:10 man, I really want a barding 15:10:22 the +7 dex robe freed up a lot of stats for me 15:10:35 Lasty_: it dropped on like D:10 and i didn't notice until orc:3 15:10:46 lol 15:10:58 I've been searching for "barding" repeatedly just in case I do that 15:11:13 oh! it was actually after elf:2, now that you say that 15:11:25 because i searched for "bardi" to check that bardiche of pain in the HoB 15:11:31 and it was like: hey, a barding 15:11:31 Also, I don't have expensive things like 2H polearms or Zin weighing me down 15:11:32