00:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:09 <|amethyst> I wouldn't want to see people advised to drop their stones when fighting weak enemies 00:00:15 especially on d:1 I prefer to save stones for when they're really needed, since they're not that common 00:00:28 (usually) 00:00:46 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:09 <|amethyst> past D:2 or so, though, you usually have more than you'll ever need 00:01:17 <|amethyst> particularly with the removal of weight 00:01:29 sure, but I have to live that long :) 00:01:39 <|amethyst> or, at least, since the removal of weight I have never run out of stones 00:02:09 <|amethyst> maybe the combination of 1. no slot swapping 2. require stones 3. give EE (and maybe wanderers who get that spell?) more stones to start with 00:02:30 <|amethyst> s/slot swapping/wielding/ 00:02:44 but d:1 is where you're likely to (with no control over it) blow your 20 starting stones on rats and then encounter the random d:1 gnoll 00:02:51 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:03:11 (have also occasionally made it to d:2 and once d:3 without finding a weapon) 00:03:43 <|amethyst> a DE can still punch rats to death without a weapon, but yeah 00:03:49 <|amethyst> @??rat 00:03:49 rat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-4 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 00:03:52 <|amethyst> @??goblin 00:03:52 goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-6 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: human. 00:04:51 <|amethyst> But you definitely wouldn't be able to use it freely as though it were flame tongue 00:05:44 <|amethyst> but anyway, removing the ability to wield bread doesn't fix breadswinging 00:06:02 <|amethyst> it just means you need to leave one non-short-blades weapon skill untrained 00:06:37 <|amethyst> ??great mace 00:06:37 great mace[1/1]: (maces & flails; -4 acc / 17 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). An enormous metal war club, of great cumbrousness. The largest mace most playable races can wield. Ogres and Trolls can wield giant (spiked) clubs too. 00:06:48 <|amethyst> I guess that's the slowest common weapon? 00:06:51 <|amethyst> ??greatsword 00:06:52 great sword[1/2]: (long blades; -3 acc / 16 dam / 1.6 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A sword with a very long, heavy blade and a long handle. 00:06:57 <|amethyst> ??battleaxe 00:06:58 battleaxe[1/1]: (axes; -4 acc / 15 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A large war axe with a formidable double-sided head. 00:07:02 <|amethyst> ??glaive 00:07:03 glaive[1/2]: (polearms; -3 acc / 15 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A pole with a large, heavy blade on one end. Glaives chop hydra heads. 00:07:11 <|amethyst> well, those three 00:09:15 <|amethyst> there's also bowswinging if you don't want to risk hurting invisible monsters 00:09:23 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:02 <|amethyst> I guess it's "bread"swinging because you don't have to spend an extra inventory slot on that 00:11:39 <|amethyst> (FR: to make throwing almost as annoying as other ranged skills, give a speed bonus if you wield the stack you are throwing from) 00:21:40 -!- Gorice has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:23:59 <|amethyst> Maybe we should make *tele print a message when it doesn't teleport you 00:24:03 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17273 00:28:14 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:48 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:59 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:46 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:21 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:51 -!- omniscient has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:56 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:11 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:15 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:35 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:00:42 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1642-gd4b747b (34) 01:04:23 <|amethyst> btw, does new-s2s respect !D? Should we have another inscription specifically for "don't use this as a spell component" (or "prompt before using...")? 01:05:22 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:30 <|amethyst> ah, it does respect !D 01:07:44 <|amethyst> and I guess there's nothing else that !D on an arrow would be relevant to 01:08:16 <|amethyst> (presumably shooting mulchables don't count as OPER_DESTROY) 01:08:23 <|amethyst> s/don/doesn/ 01:10:23 <|amethyst> I guess !D is now just S2S, item sac, and trog ignite 01:11:46 what items can you still sac? 01:11:47 item sac? who still takes item sacs? 01:11:56 glad i wasn't the only one thinking that 01:14:28 <|amethyst> ashenzari 01:14:40 <|amethyst> not sure if fedhas obeys that or not 01:16:55 -!- omniscient has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:17:41 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1642-gd4b747b (34) 01:31:39 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:31:46 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:37:23 -!- omniscient has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:52 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:49:34 oh right 01:49:36 forgot ash 01:51:16 -!- omniscient has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:51:49 -!- stickup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:47 -!- bOtbrAd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53:55 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1642-gd4b747b 01:54:07 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:15 -!- oky has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:54:20 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:59:00 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:48 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:02 -!- omniscient has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:16 -!- Lazy__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:33 -!- geekosaur has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:35 -!- G-Flex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:40 -!- Lazy__ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:42 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:42 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:54 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 02:02:55 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:16 -!- zauren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:07 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:06:52 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1643-gab9745c: Print a message describing the WizLab map upon entering 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ab9745cbe3c6 02:06:52 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1644-g9c114d1: Remove an unused lua function argument 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9c114d1da7b8 02:07:37 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:55 -!- joke_LA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:09:47 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:21 -!- Siegurt has left ##crawl-dev 02:10:23 -!- omniscient has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:12:00 Using 1 lamp of fire makes all inert 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9897 by nubinia 02:12:54 <|amethyst> probably the item descriptions should mention that 02:13:13 -!- WalrusKing has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:13:23 <|amethyst> oh wait 02:14:17 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:11 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:14 |amethyst: FR it should be in all caps in the item desc, and be an MPR when you use one 02:16:41 <|amethyst> I could see a message when you evoke 02:18:19 <|amethyst> It would be nice if we had some kind of flavour explanation for why they all become inert 02:18:50 <|amethyst> because the lamp being "inhabited by benevolent fire spirits" doesn't really explain that behaviour 02:19:11 <|amethyst> if you release the spirits from one bottle, what happens to the spirits in all the other bottles? 02:19:28 |amethyst: it calls upon the fire spirits of the dungeon 02:19:31 <|amethyst> are the bottles all connected in hyperspace, so that opening one lets out all the spirits in all the bottles? 02:20:02 <|amethyst> aw, I preferred my "hyperspace" explanation but yours is more plausible 02:20:11 <|amethyst> "plausible" 02:20:31 summons elementals from the x plane 02:20:40 x = element of choice 02:21:01 the plane can't be accessed until enough time passes 02:21:12 <|amethyst> what happens if two different people find bottles? 02:21:28 nothing, until one of them empties it 02:21:32 maybe instead of call upon, it releases the restless ones. call too often and there's nobody antsy to get out 02:21:34 well, "opens" it 02:22:09 <|amethyst> I guess it's a good thing Donald isn't smart enough to use evokers 02:24:56 -!- bOtbrAd has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:27:31 -!- omniscient has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:30:34 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 02:30:51 -!- mibe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:32:04 heh 02:32:57 is there anything that causes shapeshifters to show up in their "normal" form for a while? or do they just have a small chance of doing that each time they change form/ 02:33:01 ? 02:44:29 ProzacElf: AFAICT it's just "choose a random valid monster", and one valid monster is a shapeshifter 02:44:50 ah. cool 02:45:03 i'm guessing the odds of that getting chosen just happen to be pretty low 02:45:37 <|amethyst> I don't think any lower than any other monster 02:45:39 <|amethyst> but 02:45:55 <|amethyst> they only stay in shapeshifter form for one turn, unless they're asleep, paralysed, etc 02:48:33 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1644-g9c114d1 03:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:53 i had finesse going with a bow of speed 03:02:08 so i probably was just able to notice it because i got to shoot at it like 4 times 03:02:48 the tile looks enough like a small abomination that i've probably seen it before and just thought it was one of those 03:10:16 -!- FourHTwoA has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:06 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1644-g9c114d1 (34) 03:13:29 -!- AltReality has quit [Quit: Shame on us, doomed from the start, May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts. Shame on us, for what we've done, and all we ever were, just zeros and ones.] 03:14:13 -!- Gorice has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:14:40 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:31:47 -!- Lazy__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:33:17 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:35:13 -!- Silurio has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:37:26 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:39:31 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:14 hm 03:45:12 I can’t exactly reproduce #9896 but I see some odd lag and a spike in memory usage when starting the 64-bit build of 0.16.1 (afterwards it drops to 0.5MB and works normally) 03:45:20 the 32-bit version seems to work fine 03:45:52 (but uses ~30MB right after startup) 03:46:09 (that’s according to task manager’s probably simplistic memory profiling) 03:52:09 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:53:13 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:01 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:05:23 -!- zauren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:07:03 -!- FourHTwoA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:11:58 -!- ldierk has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:19:01 Constant delay when holding down a key 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9898 by graffen69 04:26:15 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:40 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:47 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41:40 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 04:44:37 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:22 -!- stickup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:51 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 05:36:28 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:17 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:52:23 !messages 05:52:24 (1/1) |amethyst said (18h 15m 44s ago): cue port 81 seems to not be open; have morgues moved? 05:52:30 oh, whoops 05:52:35 that's weird. 05:53:01 !tell |amethyst uhh, they're there alright 05:53:01 TZer0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 06:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:31 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 06:05:45 -!- CcS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:51 -!- driftwood has quit [Client Quit] 06:17:30 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:22:31 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:22:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:52 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:47:05 -!- oho_hups has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:51:50 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:45 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:58 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:24 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:46:43 -!- CacoS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:19 -!- raganim86 has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:00:01 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:56 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:03 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:26:07 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:29:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 08:30:42 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:37:26 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:37 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:16 -!- hoho_ups has quit [Quit: bong timeout] 09:09:19 -!- oho_hups has quit [Quit: bong timeout] 09:10:17 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:19 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:16:36 -!- FiftyNine has quit [] 09:17:10 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:39 -!- hyperbolic has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:12 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:33 -!- bel has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:39:33 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 09:40:27 -!- hyperbolic is now known as elliptic 09:41:15 <|amethyst> Zaba: 0.5 MB sounds complete wrong 09:41:15 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:41:38 |amethyst, yep, but I’m fairly sure the spike to ~1GB on startup is real 09:41:45 the system also kind of lags during it 09:42:04 <|amethyst> Zaba: does it actually work when it's using only 0.5 MB? 09:42:07 yes 09:43:00 <|amethyst> sizeof(crawl_environment) is 815764 09:43:09 <|amethyst> I guess stuff is paged out and not being counted? 09:43:13 well, who knows what kind of memory usage it’s reporting? 09:43:16 it’s task manager 09:43:20 not a memory profiler 09:43:54 I tried to find the latter, but apparently VS can only profile .net programs out of the box and I haven’t had time to seek out a way to do it for native ones 09:44:07 <|amethyst> Maybe the way mingw allocates memory isn't supported anymore in Windows 10? 09:44:51 well, we should ask the original reporter whether they are using the 32-bit or the 64-bit build, because I don’t believe they specified hat 09:44:52 that* 09:45:08 I did not see any anomalies whatsoever with the 32-bit one, for whatever that is worth 09:45:25 <|amethyst> They listed 0.16-win64 under "Product Version" 09:45:30 oh 09:45:32 fine then 09:45:44 well, could be that the 64-bit mingw is running into some obscure thing 09:46:17 <|amethyst> I wonder if it's the threads 09:46:41 <|amethyst> e.g. if the threads aren't sharing anything 09:47:04 <|amethyst> since we only use threading on startup 09:48:58 I don’t have enough idea about development on windows to know how to get to the bottom of this unfortunately 09:49:47 <|amethyst> me either 09:50:59 -!- Dixlet has quit [Quit: lates] 10:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:16 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:11 -!- oifsdaf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:05 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:11:02 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11:30 -!- stanzill has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11:40 -!- stickup has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:12:34 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 10:13:45 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18:20 -!- kryft has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:34 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: RIP] 10:25:29 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:40 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:33:11 -!- Torax_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:35:11 -!- stickup` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:19 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:39:38 -!- FourHTwoA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:07 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:45:29 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:01 -!- CacoS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:19 Death Channel: "Young spriggan druid" becomes "young the spectral spriggan" 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9899 by rigrig 10:58:47 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:58:53 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:32 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzwecha 11:01:51 <|amethyst> Adding n_spe does not help 11:02:31 <|amethyst> probably n_noc should apply to spectral things and not just corpses 11:03:27 <|amethyst> but there's still a problem if we have a n_adj that should apply to corpses 11:04:46 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:06:01 <|amethyst> !tell MarvinPA was the teleportitis change intended to make teleports more dangerous? rast says "So the main point was to remove all the times when random teleport mutation would have taken you from danger to safety. And then a 33% increase in the times it takes you from safety to danger." 11:06:02 |amethyst: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 11:06:19 thanks? i guess 11:06:43 if it was just about removing annoyance, it would only have addressed the times when teleport took you from safety to safety 11:07:16 I understood the intent to "make it do something", i.e. actually be dangerous instead of annoying 11:07:27 since the zeitgeist was that teleportitis was completely ignorable 11:07:34 it was dangerous before. and sometimes helpful 11:07:37 and often annoying 11:07:55 now its just purely dangerous, and triggers more often 11:08:33 actually I do not fins it "purely dangerous", because several times it has yanked me away from a dangerous fight to face a rat/bat :) 11:08:44 (now watch that change, since I mentioned it.....) 11:08:46 <|amethyst> geekosaur: this was about the behaviour in Zot though 11:09:02 but it will never yank you from a dangerous fight to face nothing 11:09:14 oh, a separate chaneg? 11:09:30 <|amethyst> that's all the same commit 11:09:36 <|amethyst> Makes teleportitis teleports pick a spot as usual, but if there are no enemi 11:09:39 <|amethyst> es 11:09:41 <|amethyst> in LOS of the target then it silently aborts. This should make it have 11:09:44 <|amethyst> significantly less of an effect when travelling through cleared levels, for 11:09:47 <|amethyst> example, while still being dangerous otherwise. 11:09:48 if you actually wanted to make teleportitis more deadly, fine, you've achieved your goal 11:10:05 i dont think that was needed since its always been dangerous 11:10:24 Just please don't pretend you haven't made it much nastier 11:10:43 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:11:14 <|amethyst> I should never have posted, I'm sorry 11:11:35 i don't mean you specifically 11:12:02 <|amethyst> Look, why don't you and lessens and Aule go back to playing 0.16? 11:12:20 just anyone ignoring the fact that old teleport taking you out of danger was meaningful, and removing that was also meaningful 11:12:31 I still am 11:12:34 I don't play trunk 11:13:15 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1645-ga90e6b1: Don't give teleportitis mutation. 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a90e6b1aac7c 11:13:29 heh :\ 11:13:44 that's not why I don't play trunk 11:14:00 well, not this specifically. It's a microcosm of it though 11:14:43 don't get me wrong, crawl is an awesome game and you guys do a great job overall. I just prefer to stable to trunk 11:15:41 * geekosaur is not exactly fond of teleportitis, but prefers actual dangers to annoyances. and is not overly fond of "it should be a stroll in the park" as a direction 11:17:00 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:27 !messages 11:24:28 No messages for TZer0. 11:29:36 -!- dgu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:31 -!- wmbt has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:38:17 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:44:56 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:13 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:55:17 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:54 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 12:08:29 -!- joke_LA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:42 -!- alvarops has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:19:10 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:20:39 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:21:44 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:30 -!- debo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:10 -!- _159 has quit [Client Quit] 12:40:13 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:41:58 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:08 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:44:23 -!- Chance672 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 12:47:57 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:45 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:05:07 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1645-ga90e6b1 (34) 13:20:31 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:25:38 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:32 -!- Lazy__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:30:24 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:33:27 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:16 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:34:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:47 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:45:15 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:03 -!- CcS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:56:55 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 13:57:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:12 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:13 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:07 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:07:26 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:08:12 -!- urechis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:19 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:42 -!- FourHTwoA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:11:16 -!- bOtBrAd is now known as botBRAD 14:11:21 amalloy: that typo was actually just me quoting ADOM verbatim 14:11:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:14 wheals: in to? 14:12:24 yeah 14:12:30 i think 14:12:49 dang German English 14:14:49 -!- alvarops has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:51 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:05 -!- Lazy__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 14:22:12 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:50 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:23:15 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:38 %git 14:23:38 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-1645-ga90e6b1: Don't give teleportitis mutation. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a90e6b1aac7c 14:23:53 I don't really get why we did this, just because of a CYC thread? 14:25:01 <|amethyst> The commit message makes it sound like it wasn't intended to make the mutation worse for players 14:25:10 <|amethyst> and it was a GDD thread until someone moved it 14:26:00 it actually didn't make it worse though, right? just made it feel worse, because it never sends you somewhere non-dangerous? 14:26:10 <|amethyst> amalloy: no, it did make the mutation worse 14:26:28 <|amethyst> by 1. removing the range restriction 2. increasing the frequency of triggers by 33% 14:26:43 33% is a lot 14:27:03 <|amethyst> apparently the old mutation was considered a quasi-good mutation by some 14:27:09 <|amethyst> in which case it needed to be made worse 14:27:15 <|amethyst> or flagged as MUTFLAG_GOOD 14:27:36 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:27:50 teleportitis? good? what the fuck 14:27:55 Well it's not exactly a lot since, most of the time when it triggers, it does nothing 14:27:55 it has always been the single worst badmut 14:27:58 after slow movement was removed 14:28:14 the worse you are as a player the more often teleporitits will help you 14:28:16 ::/ 14:28:40 -!- botBRAD has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 14:29:04 <|amethyst> minmay says "it's not dangerous", and Siegurt was comparing it to antennae 14:29:14 |amethyst: and 3. removing all the tiems teleportitis teleports you away from dangerous monsters into a fully cleared area 14:30:09 -!- brad_ is now known as BOTBrad 14:31:05 I also don't understand why we are disabling the mutation suddenly 14:31:21 bad players have all the help they need in making their game go poorly, so I don't think we need to try to design it with their pathology in mind 14:31:31 and the commit message for a90e6b is worse than useless IMO 14:31:38 -!- rhayde` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:32:10 <|amethyst> I don't think lessens and rast are bad players though 14:32:13 if people agree after serious discussion that the mutation is too nasty as is, there are various ways of nerfing it (e.g. reduce frequency) 14:32:37 No one said they were? 14:32:47 or if people agree after serious discussion that the mutation is bad design regardless, then I'm fine with removing it (I don't love it myself or anything, but it seemed fine to me) 14:33:02 but I'm not aware of such discussion 14:33:23 <|amethyst> Where was the serious discussion about increasing the trigger chance? 14:33:48 I think MPA chose that based on the fact that now it doesn't act at all a lot, from my recollection 14:34:08 It's true that he didn't choose that % with any kind of rigor, more based on his play-testing 14:34:13 but that was a good thing, right? 14:34:20 that it acted less, I mean? 14:34:44 because the whole original point of the change was to remove the times that it triggered only to annoy the player and ruin autoexplore 14:34:53 <|amethyst> gammafunk: That was what I said: 14:34:55 <|amethyst> I can't speak for MarvinPA, but I imagine that the range restriction on the mutation (first added in 0.12) was removed because otherwise it would rarely teleport you under the new system (since the area near the player is likely to be clear of monsters). The 33% increase in frequency was maybe based on an estimate of monster density from earlier in the game than Zot? 14:35:07 <|amethyst> and that just made people complain more 14:35:14 |amethyst: yes, but I seem to recall that was MPA's reasoning as well 14:35:23 truthfully I'd have to look at the dev log when he made the change 14:35:51 I mean, he didn't talk about monster density, just the fact that it doesn't do anything at all many times now 14:35:54 FR: Could someone with tavern powers move that thread back to GDD and rename it to "telportation change discussion"? 14:35:56 TY 14:36:32 fwiw I couldn't find the thread even after reading what was said here and looking for something on tavern complaining about teleportitis 14:36:35 because I wasn't looking in CYC 14:36:59 <|amethyst> I would have never seen or posted to the thread had it started in CYC 14:37:00 because why would I 14:37:02 ah 14:37:19 just for the record I agree that teleportitis is a bad mutation. so why did it have to get nastier? 14:37:33 Well Aule's original thread was not exactly a GDD-worthy post, I think that's why someone moved it 14:37:48 rast: the initial motivation for the change was to make teleportitis less annoying when traveling through cleared levels 14:38:08 I see that, yes. but that's not all that was done. 14:38:23 yes it is? 14:38:50 they also removed the part where it sometimes take you away from combat into a safe area 14:39:11 oh you said "not all that was done" 14:39:22 also it tends to move you farther, which is more dangerous in general 14:39:35 and the 33% increase :/ 14:40:27 people keep citing 33% increase without accounting for how much it's a no-op; I'm really not sure that it's way worse than it was previously on the whole 14:41:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: my guess would be that in places like V:$ and Zot:5, the majority of steppable squares are in LOS of a monster 14:41:12 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:41:15 <|amethyst> haven't counted that though 14:41:24 -!- wheals has left ##crawl-dev 14:41:47 gammafunk: i think the point is it used to be bad X% of the time, and good/neutral Y% of the time; now it's bad 1.33X% of the time and never good/neutral 14:41:48 on z:5 i expect it's a lot more likely to take you to the lungs than it was before 14:41:55 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:13 <|amethyst> amalloy: it would only be 1.33X% on levels where every square is in LOS of a monster 14:42:18 amalloy: it's not bad 1.33% of the time 14:42:31 |amethyst: gammafunk: he said 1.33X% 14:42:32 X 14:42:36 is a variable here 14:42:44 <|amethyst> oh, I see 14:43:15 it's not really the same X though 14:43:26 it kinda is? 14:43:28 personally I would suggest just removing the 33% increase thing 14:43:28 Have people gotten the mutation and found it to be markedly worse? 14:43:35 aule has! 14:43:38 |amethyst: i mean, it used to do something bad (send you into a monster) X times every thousand turns, and sometimes save you from a monster, and sometimes do nothing interesting. now it sends you to a monster 1.33X times every thousand turns 14:43:39 haha 14:43:51 <|amethyst> I think the range increase is probably more significant than the frequency increase 14:44:01 yes 14:44:01 gammafunk: I guess someone got it from !mut on D:2 and that's what caused this? 14:44:16 <|amethyst> since I feel like the area around the player is more likely to be clear 14:44:26 it's worth discussing regardless 14:44:28 |amethyst: teleitis 1 being short-range is a relatively recent thing anyway iirc? I forget how old that change is 14:44:54 <|amethyst> I was more concerned with lessen's complaints regarding Zot etc 14:45:00 I'm not really sure why people make such a big deal of the "short" range 14:45:08 <|amethyst> elliptic: 0.12 14:45:15 elliptic: yeah someone quaff-iding while fighting an adder at got the mutationn was the instance in question 14:45:16 it can throw you over a big, nice thick metal wall into a bunch of dudes that murder you 14:45:17 I actually found short-range more dangerous, not less dangerous 14:45:38 elliptic: huh. how so 14:45:38 it also can blink you right into the middle of things you are running away from 14:46:01 monsters far away are more likely to be sleeping, not be grouped together, etc 14:46:23 <|amethyst> hn 14:46:24 right, you're since you tend to be making a lot of noise at your present location 14:46:24 <|amethyst> hm 14:46:28 on zot:5 i think the calculus switches though 14:46:34 for that reason I never much liked the short-range change 14:46:46 I haven't gotten stuck with teleitis in very many games at all though 14:47:02 well end-game branches are about dealing with these issues; cure mut and stasis tend to exit by then 14:47:06 yeah that's probably why this change didnt get discussed much (or the .12 change) 14:47:08 probably only 2-3 since the short-range thing, mutations like this really don't impact very many games 14:47:24 because good players dont choose to get random mtations, and when they do, teleportitis is on the remove ASAP list 14:48:59 I think I've literally never had teleportitis at the time I enter V:5 or Zot:1 14:49:44 right, I assume the correct chocie there is to go to abyss instead 14:49:49 I'm certainly not concerned about mutations relative to what happens in the very last levels of the game, when all the resources in the world are available 14:50:02 rast: possibly, but I don't think I've even been in that situation 14:50:29 if you try hard not to get mutations pre-zot 14:50:34 you probably wont get any 14:50:50 also cure mutation is a thing 14:50:54 right 14:50:55 that exists in most games 14:51:40 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:52:04 yeah I don't have a problem if some edge cases when the mutation was "good" are removed; the new version has less tedium attached to it. Maybe the % increase is a bit much, but I'm not sure how to reason too much or too little 14:52:48 what would be wrong with having it silently cancel cases where the player would teleport from safety to safety 14:52:56 while still alowing danger-->safety? 14:53:00 If you're at an earlier branch end without stasis, even without 33% increase, when it triggers it's likely to be a big deal 14:53:22 rast: kiting a monster until teleportitis happens is tedious too 14:53:27 and is definitely a thing early on 14:53:36 you can still do that now, but you get a new monster at least 14:53:39 and technically can't it still take you from danger to safety 14:53:40 its been around for a very long time though 14:53:41 right 14:53:55 and kiting until you regen to full hp takes even longer 14:54:31 Does it currently teleport you at all with a monster in LOS? I guess it would since there'd be weirdness otherwise 14:54:32 I just don't find "has a small random chance of teleporting you to safety each turn" to be very interesting 14:54:36 gammafunk: yes 14:54:46 it the mutation interesting at all? 14:54:47 yeah, so you can still go to safety in some instances 14:55:00 besides hopefully teaching the player not to eat purple chunks? 14:56:06 I think you can pretty much ask that question of all bad mutations 14:56:26 most aren't as deadly 14:56:43 teleitis isn't that deadly IMO 14:56:51 except when it is :/ 14:56:56 its so random, too 14:57:00 I actually wear-ID rings on D:1 despite the chance of cursed teleportation because I think it is worth it 14:57:05 most mutations are "one of your numbers got smaller" 14:57:24 and have gotten cursed teleportation quite a few times and survived to remove curse 14:58:11 anyway I certainly wouldn't miss the mutation, but that's true of basically all mutations 14:58:18 since it is so rare that they impact a game 14:58:56 I just don't like the dev process that led to disabling it very much 14:59:08 but then, I'm pretty inactive here 14:59:44 Well I agree. Perhaps we can ask MarvinPA what he thinks about removing that % increase, if he feels it's well tested 15:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:07 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:05:13 !tell MarvinPA a90e6b1 disables teleportitis because some players were complaining about it; some of us feel should this should be reverted, but we're wondering if the triggering frequency is right. Is the 33% increase relative to old teleportitis a value you feel is already well-balanced? I would prefer tweaking the mutation to removal, if need be. 15:05:14 gammafunk: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 15:08:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:12:33 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:55 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:20:01 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:20:14 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:22:15 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:24 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:34 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:35:49 -!- stanzwecha is now known as stanzill 15:36:24 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:37:59 I learned today how xrdb actually calls out to cpp to process resources files to process macros like #define, yet many distros disable this for performance reasons for the xrdb call that happens on xserver login 15:38:33 this being the reason why my font and font size were correctly getting set for Xterm, but my colors all got set to white unless I ran xrdb myself 15:39:06 not just performance reasons 15:39:17 this only being necessary at all because I don't think gnome-terminal can properly encode so that my special wall glyphs work 15:39:56 yeah, I just ran it through cpp myself, and the defines I was using really weren't even necessary, so I'll just use the resulting file from now on 15:40:08 cpp is not intended for general preprocessing. clang's cpp won't work for that at all; gcc's only works with -traditional. and it really should not be trusted, but people insist on trusting it 15:40:42 yeah it did seem quite odd to me that xresources would be using something like cpp 15:41:09 <|amethyst> yeah, why not M4? 15:41:09 I still get strange artifacts in Xterm; blue and grey spots that appear to be portions of these unicode wall glyphs I'm using 15:41:36 specifically I'm using 15:41:41 feature += crystal wall {░} 15:41:46 through 15:41:52 <|amethyst> xterm tends to leave droppings when glyphs extend outside character cells 15:41:52 feature += metal wall {▓} 15:42:00 that usually means the glyphs are larger than xterm's notion of a character cell 15:42:07 |amethyst: yeah I'm using size 14 font, is there a way to fix this? 15:42:23 xterm doesn't handle that very well, some alternative terminal emulators handle it better 15:43:05 * geekosaur uses xfce4-terminal 15:43:12 I'll check that one out 15:43:34 I think any vte-based terminal will handle that better. also try urxvt which has to deal with odd character sizes anyway 15:43:45 (aka rxvt-unicode) 15:44:10 hrm, gnome-terminal is vte-based,no? 15:44:10 <|amethyst> gammafunk: seems to work fine in gnome-terminal for me 15:44:16 yes 15:44:21 <|amethyst> what font are you using? 15:44:29 |amethyst: yeah, my gnome-terminal won't render these chars as anything but a solid block 15:44:42 that would be a font issue I think 15:44:45 XTerm*faceName: DejaVu Sans Mono 15:44:45 XTerm*faceSize: 14 15:44:49 is what I use in xterm 15:44:55 for gnome-terminal, let me see... 15:45:16 <|amethyst> They show up as solid blocks for me with DejaVu 15:45:25 says DejaVu Sans Mono Book 15:46:15 <|amethyst> hmm 15:46:47 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:47:02 do they show as solid regardless of font size? 15:47:10 I can try changing font size 15:47:22 <|amethyst> yeah, font size doesn't seem to change anything for me 15:47:28 -!- joke_LA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:47:31 <|amethyst> I imagine it's freetype vs pango or something? 15:47:59 yeah, still a block at size 10 15:48:15 what if you increase it? 15:48:37 same 15:49:02 and also a block in the default font settings used in gnome-terminal 15:49:14 which is Monospace Regular 12 15:49:48 but yeah, in xterm they show as the appropriate glyphs 15:50:26 maybe I should try xfce4-terminal, see if it's common to all vte-based terminals 15:51:16 -!- Torax_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:54 * geekosaur should probably have wizmoded, just started a game with those settings and haven't triggered them yet >.> 15:53:14 heh, yeah I go to V:5 15:53:17 to see metal or crystal walls 15:53:28 you can make them with &( as well 15:53:40 <|amethyst> oh, huh 15:53:42 <|amethyst> it's not the font 15:53:48 <|amethyst> https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/494128-Gnome-Terminal-renders-it-s-own-Box-Drawing-and-Block-Elements-characters 15:54:37 huh 15:55:11 well he claims that most recent ubuntu uses the font characters instead of gnome-terminal's own, but I'm using latest ubuntu 15:55:29 but good, maybe that means I can use another vte terminal and be fine 15:56:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:56:19 yeah, looks like xfce4-terminal renders them fine 15:57:42 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1646-geb1493d: Revert "Don't give teleportitis mutation." 10(53 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb1493dc8c98 15:57:49 not seeing any weird artifacts either 15:58:31 making teleportitis more dangerous was an entirely intentional consequence of the change, apologies if that was not clear 15:58:32 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 15:58:35 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: RIP] 15:58:49 MarvinPA: your commit messages cause problem after problem! 15:59:18 telepoopitis has always been terrible, it's not like making it terribler (sic) is a big deal 15:59:29 terriblitis 15:59:35 the increase in frequency was completely arbitrary, if somebody would like to tweak that (to a value other than 0) then go ahead 16:00:04 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:34 maybe I should play-test it a bit, I haven't gotten it in a game since the change 16:01:38 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 16:01:39 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:04 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:47 i tested it by playing with it in wizmode a bunch and seeing roughly how often it triggered before and after the change, it seemed fine to me with the increase 16:04:41 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:44 if anything i feel like it was a fairly conservative increase 16:06:40 -!- nubinia has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:33 (but i didn't bother running any stats so certainly someone could do that if they like) 16:10:28 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:11:36 yeah, I was hoping some play-testing could reveal if that value is somehow too high on an average level. I suppose on the early branch ends it might be 16:12:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 16:20:32 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:37 pretty sure teleportitis could trigger twice as often and still not really be dangerous 16:26:57 you should still use my totally awesome idea to get rid of the stairs issue though 16:28:35 which idea was that 16:29:06 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:51 the one where teleportitis triggers when a monster first comes into view, instead of randomly 16:35:11 once per level? 16:35:13 it would blink you adjacent or something? 16:35:15 or once per monster? 16:35:35 per monster, with a chance of triggering, I think 16:35:45 like how shoutitis is 16:35:56 but I'm not sure if he means the effect is the same 16:36:06 I guess it would be pretty amusing 16:36:17 you enter los of a goblin, teleport next to an adder? 16:36:18 shouldn't apply to summons ofc 16:36:32 hrm 16:36:43 are those even tracked by crawl's internal "seen monster" thing? 16:36:46 I think they aren't 16:36:53 per monster, yes 16:37:02 doesn't really matter if the effect is the same or not 16:37:14 but right, summoning a monster shouldn't mean triggering the mutation 16:39:23 what's the in-world rationale? 16:39:26 or does it even need one? 16:39:58 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40:01 what's the in-world rationale for your body mutating to teleport you near monsters 16:40:07 correct 16:40:14 the whole thing is weird 16:40:39 its not like this radioactive spider bite gave me bigger/smaller muscles" 16:40:52 most other mutations make a kind of sense 16:41:04 shoutitis is tourette's 16:41:45 I don't think we need to worry too much about realism arguments wrt mutations 16:41:52 OK 16:41:58 <|amethyst> I'm sure there's some X-Man who can teleport 16:42:06 the proposed change gets even more abstact 16:42:29 now instead of teleporting at random times 16:42:42 you teleport the first time you see an a new enemy 16:42:46 kinda weird 16:42:56 we just added a god about the abstract notion of 'sacrifice'! It's just a big set of weighing scales! 16:42:58 are you really trying to rationalize magic? 16:43:07 in a game? 16:43:08 gammafunk: ru is abotu self mutliation 16:43:15 woah 16:43:17 *mutilation 16:43:19 Lasty please confirm 16:43:28 <|amethyst> Your quantum wavefunction becomes metastable, and is easily destabilised by the presence of hostile wavefunctions 16:43:29 |amethyst heh 16:44:04 gammafunk please examine the mythological examples of sacrificing an eye or hand 16:44:10 I'm sorry, this rationale argument is kinda like the one that got us claymares and bastard swords 16:44:18 *claymores 16:44:25 which were good! 16:44:45 -!- ClawlessVictory has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:45:00 I'm an athiest, I don't believe in all that, and I in fact believe we should remove all gods but Sif, Mak, and Trog, because those are in fact living things that arose from Evolution and survival of the fittest 16:45:00 you require your game be firmly grounded in reality? I don't think that describes any roguelike 16:45:22 *atheist 16:45:25 I don't require it, but I think ti's nice, when possible 16:45:31 would help if I could ever spell it correctly 16:45:39 <|amethyst> I don't think Luke Skywalker intentionally mutilated his hand 16:45:39 for a fairly relaxed definition of "firmly" 16:45:55 |amethyst yeah and how much pwoer did he gain from it 16:45:56 <|amethyst> Odin did gouge out his own eye, though 16:46:04 <|amethyst> rast: he got a cool robot hand! 16:46:12 so not much of a sacrifice 16:46:22 there was a Norse god, I forget his name 16:46:26 He gained his father's love 16:46:26 <|amethyst> Odin 16:46:28 who sacrificed his hand to chain fenrir 16:46:28 <|amethyst> oh 16:46:43 <|amethyst> Tyr 16:46:52 yeah 16:46:59 sac hand doesnt mean you vow not to use you hand 16:47:08 it means the hand is gone and its not coming back 16:47:20 <|amethyst> But that wasn't self-mutilation, either, not like Odin's eye 16:47:44 sticking hand in mouth of insane wolf god doesnt count as self mutilation, OK 16:49:37 I suppose the game lore allows for multiple interpretations 16:50:05 you can choose to believe that sac eye means the eye just fades out of your head and is replaced by a smooth patch of skin 16:50:25 I prefer to think that your guy gouges it out with his corpse butchering knife 16:50:32 <|amethyst> "Your right eye vanishes! The world loses its depth." 16:50:41 huh 16:50:49 <|amethyst> "One of your hands has vanished, leaving only a stump!" 16:51:04 clearly the messages leave something to be desired 16:51:31 does the eye one come with puffing noises and smoke 16:52:15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Swords#Vilkata 16:52:16 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 16:52:17 <|amethyst> It should give you a pet giant eyeball 16:52:31 Vilkata is a powerful sorcerer and master of many demons. He will do anything to gain an upper hand over his enemies; as a younger man he gouged out his own eyes as a sacrifice in order to gain the power required to get revenge over those who had wronged him. 16:52:36 wouldn't that be horribly overpowered 16:52:56 besides, shouldn't it be normal-sized eyeball 16:52:58 kvaak the balancing factor would be that you have to wait for it to catch up all the time 16:53:02 <|amethyst> kvaak: it would probably make your character lack depth 16:53:04 speedruners hate it! 16:53:32 <|amethyst> rast: current speedrunners could use ctrl-e and get the benefits of breadswinging whenever they travel 16:53:37 -!- FourHTwoA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:42 ... 16:53:46 would that really work? 16:53:52 <|amethyst> (I believe ctrl-e doesn't increase the number of turns, just time) 16:53:56 oh wow 16:54:11 so current speedrunners shoudl be doing that already 16:54:15 yeah, it actually increases your move delay 16:54:32 |amethyst you should post this discovery to the game advice subforum 16:54:34 so if you have an elephant slug zombie or something trailing behind you that stone giant gets to mutilate you five times 16:54:37 or something 16:54:47 make sure to slow it too! 16:54:48 <|amethyst> it only works for travel, though, not normal movement 16:55:16 you can still move almost anywhere as long as no monsters are in sight 16:55:24 just keep ^xing 16:55:27 er, Xing 16:55:32 <|amethyst> I guess you could turn off travel interruption from monsters 16:56:06 Brilliant! 16:56:21 yes you can just x everywhere 16:56:38 (cant wait for the inevitable aut scoring!) 16:57:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:57:06 <|amethyst> turns don't even make sense! 16:57:08 spriggans, spriggans everywhere 16:57:24 good thing nobody on cdo speedruns so i don't have to watch out for spriggans 16:58:16 blaaaaah 16:58:17 given that we'd adjust the aut used for score by species move rate, I don't think spriggans will be much better than they are at present 16:58:22 spriggans! 16:58:26 <|amethyst> swinging the dark maul takes one turn, but eating a piece of bread, which takes the same amount of time, takes three turns 17:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:42 their melee wouldn't be quite so penalized score-wise as it is now, but they still have to deal with much harder late and extended game that'd be harder and slower than a lot of other species 17:01:17 perhaps they'd fill some of the void left when chei became unviable for speedruns 17:01:26 s/became/becomes/ 17:01:59 -!- vale___ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:15 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:09:15 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:17:07 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:55 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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It has a few bugs about it by now 18:37:10 oh, what's that? 18:37:19 <|amethyst> that SDL2 doesn't let you set the repeat rate 18:37:33 <|amethyst> !bug 9536 18:37:34 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9536 18:39:24 ah, and those two things he mention are the same problem, SDL 2 not allowing (or us not setting properly) the repeat rate to change? 18:42:13 <|amethyst> yeah, they're probably getting the OS-default repeat delay and interval now, but were getting 200ms/30ms in 0.15 18:42:27 <|amethyst> !source windowmanager-sdl.cc:386 18:42:27 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/windowmanager-sdl.cc#l386 18:43:55 huh, maybe Grunt couldn't get it to work in sdl2 18:44:02 <|amethyst> it isn't in SDL2 18:45:18 ah, seems there's a .repeat member in the sdl event 18:45:23 we can check in our sdl loop 18:46:31 <|amethyst> not sure how that helps 18:46:43 <|amethyst> that lets us disable repeats altogether, or reduce the rate 18:47:10 <|amethyst> but I think we'd need a timer to get something better than what the OS/SDL gives us 18:47:19 hrm 18:47:40 so the events would fire only as fast as some os-set rate 18:48:05 other games must deal with this in sdl2, maybe it'll take a bit of research 18:48:14 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 18:48:35 since I doubt the answer is: increase the system-wide key repeat rate 18:49:01 <|amethyst> probably they don't use that repeat, and do something like get the keyboard state each frame 18:49:32 yeah, someone recommends a function to just grab the keyboard state 18:49:32 <|amethyst> and record the timestamp of the last state change 18:50:00 that seems like a pretty manual way to do things though 18:53:18 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:04 -!- joke_LA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:40 -!- Ladykiller70 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:00:03 -!- FourHTwoA has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:55 Grunt: I went into cszo tiles chat, and do you know who was there? One "KennySheep". 19:02:56 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:03:46 -!- joke_LA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:51 <|amethyst> !lm kennysheep zig.exit 19:06:52 6. [2015-08-08 19:55:24] KennySheep the Petrodigitator (L27 OpAK of The Shining One) left a Ziggurat at level 27 on turn 156020. (Zig:27) 19:07:10 <|amethyst> !lm kennysheep zig.exit -2 19:07:11 5/6. [2015-08-08 17:11:26] KennySheep the Petrodigitator (L27 OpAK of The Shining One) left a Ziggurat at level 27 on turn 150569. (Zig:27) 19:07:19 <|amethyst> I see he's gotten his second complete zig 19:07:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 19:08:43 he posted about it on reddit 19:13:51 what if it inspires him to create some new vautls... 19:14:01 he actaully has a batch sitting on mantis right now 19:14:09 s/vautls/vaults/ 19:14:16 and *actually 19:18:27 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:15 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:47:44 -!- read has left ##crawl-dev 19:49:04 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:23 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:41 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:56 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:59 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:05:54 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:23 -!- oifsdaf is now known as G-Flex 20:13:24 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:16:14 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:18:26 gammafunk: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 20:18:50 I almost said to him, "Grunt is your biggest fan!" but I had restraint 20:19:01 /kick gammafunk 20:24:35 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:24:47 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:56 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:19 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:27 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:29 -!- tealeaves has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:04 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:29:31 -!- johnstein has quit [Excess Flood] 20:29:38 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:46 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:34:03 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:52 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:11 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:38:25 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:45:16 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:21 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:55:46 -!- cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:14 ??hugeterm 20:57:14 hugeterm[1/6]: Any terminal size greater than 80x24 makes your games mostly impossible to watch for people using the standard size, which also means that all future viewings of your recorded games will be mostly impossible to watch. 21:00:02 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:50 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:26 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:47 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:53 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:27:01 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:43:45 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:13 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:59 -!- Hayden2e has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:16 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:03 -!- omarax has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:54 -!- cojitoo is now known as cojito 22:03:57 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:37 -!- yottam has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:04 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:35 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:33:28 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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