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00:27:21 <Eksell> Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-1522-g6c5b4ba (34)
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00:38:05 <chequers> there is a milestones file that dcss writes
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00:38:15 <chequers> it writes one line for every milestone in every game into this file
00:38:18 <chequers> a milestone is like this:
00:38:19 <chequers> !lm
00:38:20 <Sequell> 6172. [2015-07-12 10:23:08] chequers the Poker (L3 MiFi) killed Crazy Yiuf on turn 1109. (D:2)
00:38:35 <chequers> you would need to write your own script that processes that file
00:38:58 <chequers> real servers get this done automagically of course
00:39:00 <chequers> !gkills
00:39:01 <Sequell> 54 kills by chequers's ghost: 15x chequers, 4x Kramin, 3x FedoraBrony69, 3x Minkie, 3x JamPaladin, 2x bones, 2x miek, 2x Fiveotanaka, 2x tijit, Grashnag, aori, Chernop, Trollshadow, sammcf, corvin, jimeh, tempest, Hocus, truegod, nachodelamancha, a5tp, cheetah7071, TheRake, Sixotanaka, Kogloron, PWYRGhAMER, ALBERT1987
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00:49:45 <Cheibriados> Dancing Weapons/Tukima's Dance and Gozag interaction 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9856 by CanOfWorms
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01:10:38 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1522-g6c5b4ba (34)
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01:42:57 <Roarke> Any devs on
01:43:05 <Roarke> And willing to listen to a minor complaint/suggestion
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02:49:19 <Henzell> Tossi (L10 DrBe) ASSERT(hash_map) in 'store.cc' at line 1441 failed. (trying to read non-existent property "mutant_beast_tier") (D:9)
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02:59:38 <chequers> don't ask to ask :)
02:59:44 <chequers> oops
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08:07:45 <Cheibriados> ?/mMutant beast crashes 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9857 by neil
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10:08:04 <dpeg> forum is being spammed, but there is an interesting autexplore idea by Berder: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16919
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10:12:28 <Zaba> you know, maybe it'd be nice to not build levels that make autoexplore necessary in the first place - but that'd be an entirely different game
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10:17:27 <PsyMar> like nethack?
10:17:39 <PsyMar> and really autoexplore *isn't* necessary
10:17:43 <PsyMar> ot
10:17:45 <|amethyst> nethack's lack of autoexplore is a bug, not a feature
10:17:46 <PsyMar> it's just convenient
10:17:54 <Zaba> no, not like nethack
10:18:06 <PsyMar> |amethyst: that is a good argument.  NetHack4 does have autoexplore but it's kinda buggy
10:18:14 <bhaak> it's really annoying having no autoexplore in nethack after you used it in nh4 or unnethack
10:18:20 <PsyMar> as in "you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten. you bump into the kitten.  --MORE--"
10:18:43 <PsyMar> I had to help someone out of that the other day (told them to stop hitting space and hit escape instead)
10:18:48 <Zaba> the problem here is that the way levels are built is rather detached from the way they are played, so you need such conveniences to progress in the game
10:18:57 <|amethyst> The problem is, AFAICT, making autoexplore not necessary means either increasing the threat density significantly; or not rewarding exploration (no floor loot, XP from fighting/seeing more monsters, ...)
10:19:13 <Zaba> |amethyst, well yeah, as I said, it'd be a different game
10:19:20 <bhaak> PsyMar: really? he must have changed something, that doesn't happen in unnethack
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10:22:17 <PsyMar> guy had a door to his se, kitten to his s
10:22:23 <PsyMar> and was trying to autoexplore to the end of the hallway s
10:22:33 <PsyMar> so it could then go through the door
10:22:42 <PsyMar> but yeah probably something was changed
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10:29:20 <dpeg> Zaba: as I see it, the real, underlying problem with space in roguelikes is that we use it tactically (where moving step by step is useful) as well as strategically (where it doesn't). In other words, there should be two spatial scales. This is not so revolutionary: FTL does it like this. (Of course, they have no backtracking, which makes this easier.)
10:30:19 <Zaba> dpeg, well yeah
10:30:56 <Zaba> but autoexplore is quite a complicated and indirect way to advance from one tactical encounter to next
10:36:47 <gammafunk> who's this guy neil reporting obscure help lookup crashes on mantis?!
10:37:00 <gammafunk> sometimes I think our users are trolling us
10:37:22 <|amethyst> Zaba:  having encounters closer together also means there's less room to maneuver when you do get into one
10:37:41 <|amethyst> (which might be good if you want to reduce luring too)
10:38:34 <gammafunk> dpeg: so we're going to make dcss into FTL?
10:38:47 <gammafunk> I am a big fan of space themes in general fwiw
10:39:06 <|amethyst> dpeg:  legend of zelda
10:39:26 <gammafunk> zelda 1 or zelda 2?!
10:39:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: or crawl ziggurats for that matter (small levels that don't interact with each other)
10:39:37 <|amethyst> I was thinking the dungeons in the first one
10:39:37 * bhaak would play DCSS: FTL Edition
10:39:44 <|amethyst> with separate rooms
10:39:52 <gammafunk> dcss overworld map
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10:40:09 <|amethyst> Chrono Trigger
10:40:11 <gammafunk> adom has that actually
10:40:19 <gammafunk> yes, with time travel as well
10:40:26 <|amethyst> (but with more direct control of movement in combat)
10:41:09 <Lasty_> I think we particularly need to steal the button-mashing carnival games from the Chrono Trigger opening
10:41:23 <gammafunk> heh, yeah
10:42:00 <|amethyst> we had those
10:42:07 <|amethyst> they were called "victory dancing"
10:42:37 <|amethyst> Press za to level up your Conjurations!
10:42:43 <gammafunk> Lasty_: a Gato fight would be cool
10:44:26 <|amethyst> @??training dummy spells:force_lance.30.natural name:Gato
10:44:26 <Gretell> Gato (158) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 1 | HP: 6 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Dam: 1 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 2 | Sp: force lance (3d6) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: human.
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10:45:06 <|amethyst> FR: spells:boxing_Glove.30.natural
10:45:11 <|amethyst> s/G/g/
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10:49:32 <Lasty_> haha
10:50:04 <Lasty_> @?? salamander stormcaller
10:50:04 <Gretell> salamander stormcaller (05N) | Spd: 10 (swim: 70%) | HD: 15 | HP: 67-84 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 1004(fire:15-29) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1262 | Sp: conjure flame (42d1), sticky flame range (3d6), chant fire storm | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
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10:50:45 <Lasty_> @?? wizard hd:15 spells:fire_storm.200.natural
10:50:45 <Gretell> wizard (06p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 49-73 | AC/EV: 1/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 1175 | Sp: fire storm (8d12 / 8d11) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
10:50:57 <Lasty_> @?? wizard spells:fireball.200.natural
10:50:57 <Gretell> wizard (06p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 30-52 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 618 | Sp: fireball (3d19) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: human.
10:51:57 <Lasty_> !lg * ikiller=salamander_stormcaller s=cv -graph
10:51:58 <Sequell> 44 games for * (ikiller=salamander_stormcaller): https://shalott.org/graphs/b4a0b387e6a42057ea09e0df3db1ef8eb1418ccb.html
10:52:06 <Lasty_> heh, right
10:52:20 <Lasty_> gotta get the tag for specific build
10:52:23 <Lasty_> ??sequell
10:52:23 <Sequell> sequell[1/4]: The ##crawl bot, handling game statistics, the {learndb}, and more. Operated by greensnark. See http://github.com/crawl/sequell/blob/master/docs/listgame.md  If you want the source, go here: http://github.com/crawl/sequell
10:52:54 <Lasty_> !lg * ikiller=salamander_stormcaller s=vlong -graph
10:52:55 <Sequell> 44 games for * (ikiller=salamander_stormcaller): https://shalott.org/graphs/94d601aca6ba17ad93a0833d12d8bc6857e7ad11.html
10:55:46 <dpeg> |amethyst: you're joking, but a roguelike that's a series of portal vault-like battles would make a whole lot of sense to me.
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10:56:37 <dpeg> Zaba: for the time being, we're having autoexplore/travel because it's the best thing to combine our levels and the interface.
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13:25:37 <Henzell> Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1522-g6c5b4ba (34)
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14:01:46 <dpeg> !streak dpeg
14:01:49 <Sequell> dpeg has 2 consecutive wins (MuNe, CeHu), and can keep going!
14:05:43 <simmarine> wow, exciting
14:05:46 <simmarine> !lg dpeg
14:05:47 <Sequell> 2337. dpeg the Crack Shot (L25 CeHu of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2015-07-14 17:31:06, with 1964069 points after 90170 turns and 5:53:30.
14:05:55 <simmarine> nice, i was correct on the god pick
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14:08:12 <dpeg> pft :)
14:08:45 <dpeg> How can I figure out which species are not won with Gozag?
14:09:19 <dpeg> not a single jewellery shop this time, the hilarity
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14:12:30 <amalloy> dpeg: not won by anyone?
14:12:59 <geekosaur> !lg * won s=race ?: N=0
14:12:59 <Sequell> No games for * (won).
14:13:12 <geekosaur> ...nope, not that simple :)
14:14:19 <dpeg> !lg dpeg won god=gozag x=species
14:14:19 <dpeg> I always forget
14:14:19 <Sequell> 9. [race=Centaur] dpeg the Crack Shot (L25 CeHu of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2015-07-14 17:31:06, with 1964069 points after 90170 turns and 5:53:30.
14:14:29 <dpeg> !lg dpeg won god=gozag s=species
14:14:30 <Sequell> 9 games for dpeg (won god=gozag): Octopode, Minotaur, Formicid, Centaur, Mummy, Troll, Halfling, Gargoyle, Spriggan
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14:23:26 <amalloy> !fanatic gozag dpeg
14:23:37 <Sequell> Unwon races and classes for dpeg with gozag: Deep Dwarf, Ghoul, Vampire, Naga, Deep Elf, Kobold, Tengu, Human, Vine Stalker, Draconian, Merfolk, High Elf, Ogre, Hill Orc, Demonspawn, Berserker, Chaos Knight, Fire Elementalist, Air Elementalist, Skald, Arcane Marksman, Summoner, Warper, Transmuter, Ice Elementalist, Wizard, Conjurer, Artificer, Enchanter, Wanderer, Gladiator
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14:27:08 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1523-gaff0817: Fix dancing weapon interactions under Gozag (#9856) 10(31 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aff08178a7fc
14:27:08 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1524-g40f049d: Convert monsters to GOD_NAMELESS when polymorphed into priests (#9747) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/40f049d7ff63
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14:46:46 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1525-g2e9ab14: Restrict melee multitargeting to hydras only 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2e9ab14b69b9
14:47:45 <MarvinPA> !tell gammafunk i hope you appreciate my incredible summoner buffs
14:47:45 <Sequell> MarvinPA: OK, I'll let gammafunk know.
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15:17:16 <gammafunk> But I'm so conflicted, since I can both summon tmons and egolems as well as use summons against them!
15:18:05 <gammafunk> weird, Sequell didn't give me a note about messages
15:18:16 <gammafunk> oh yes it did, sorry
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15:21:18 <travis-ci> The build has errored. (master - 40f049d #2944 : Chris Campbell): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/70952072
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16:13:36 <wheals> MarvinPA: if an ally orc is polymorphed into an anubis guard, then back into an orc, then it grows into an orc priest, what happens
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16:13:56 <MarvinPA> i remove anubis guards, imo
16:14:33 <Lasty_> lol
16:14:37 <plathrop> lol
16:15:06 <MarvinPA> i assume if you're worshipping beogh and you poly some random monster into an orc and it converts to you, it gets beogh as its god anyway
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16:17:05 <gammafunk> does it offer you worship of Kiku?
16:17:17 <gammafunk> if you're a hill orc, that is
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16:24:31 <gammafunk> MarvinPA: _The vampire draws life force from your wolf and is healed!
16:24:39 <gammafunk> vampire draining a player's canine familiar
16:24:42 <gammafunk> which I guess is a bug?
16:24:50 <gammafunk> at least in terms of it getting healed
16:25:34 <MarvinPA> why is that my fault!
16:25:43 <MarvinPA> but yes, i guess so :P
16:26:01 <gammafunk> yeah, guess since you brought up "summons nerfs/buffs" earlier
16:26:13 <MarvinPA> heh
16:26:35 <MarvinPA> looks like an easy fix, it's just because monster vamp draining is entirely separate to player i imagine
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16:35:33 <MarvinPA> Gloorx Vloq grins greedily, jangling a coin purse.
16:35:42 <MarvinPA> possibly i didn't fully think through the consequences of these bribe branch changes
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16:37:14 <gammafunk> nice
16:37:33 <gammafunk> well, in nethack you can bribe demons to skip levels, so why not crawl!
16:37:58 <Lasty_> I still think Bribe should be an AOE enslave
16:38:08 <Lasty_> rather than the thing it is now
16:38:58 <gammafunk> like a duration?
16:39:35 <gammafunk> I guess it already is a duration, but maybe what you mean is a single-turn thing anyhow
16:40:22 <Lasty_> Not what I had in mind, but maybe interesting. I was thinking more like activate and pay lots of gold for an instant mass enslave (like mass confusion), ideally calibrated based on some bribability metric other than MR.
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16:51:30 <gammafunk> that could work, I guess it removes the "coolness" of basically "buying" an entire branch though
16:51:39 <gammafunk> which is what dpeg_ was going for thematically
16:52:08 * gammafunk mumbles about German notions of economics in general
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16:54:39 <|amethyst> Obviously we need Austrian economics instead
16:54:48 <|amethyst> Axiom 1. Player action is purposeful.
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16:55:12 <|amethyst> Axiom 2. Tedium is depriving someone of their time without their consent.
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17:00:53 <Lasty_> lol
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17:01:23 <Lasty_> To be fair, current Bribe Branch only buys a small subset of a given branch, not all of it.
17:01:39 <MarvinPA> that's what i'm fixing
17:01:41 <MarvinPA> hopefully!
17:01:49 <Lasty_> ... now it buys the whole branch?
17:02:08 <MarvinPA> a chance to work on any intelligent monster
17:02:16 <Lasty_> ah
17:02:17 <MarvinPA> instead of the awful hardcoded list
17:02:25 <Lasty_> that sounds way better
17:02:31 <Lasty_> Liches know a deal when they see one.
17:05:01 <MarvinPA> as does gloorx vloq! (i guess hell/pan lords will have to be an exception)
17:08:19 <|amethyst> what about random pan lords?
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17:16:53 <MarvinPA> allowing them to be bribed seems fine probably
17:19:09 <amalloy> so players would be bribing pandemonium?
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17:20:04 <MarvinPA> if they like, also crypt/tomb
17:20:13 <MarvinPA> and i merged the hells into one
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17:23:38 <simmarine> bribe the orb run
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17:37:04 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1526-g374cf67: Make Gozag bribes work on any intelligent monster in the branch 10(74 minutes ago, 4 files, 30+ 191-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/374cf67069b0
17:37:04 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1527-gc27e826: Merge the Hells for bribe purposes, allow bribing Tomb, Crypt and Pan 10(15 minutes ago, 5 files, 42+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c27e82665bc9
17:37:04 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1528-gfee3901: Don't allow bribing unique Hell or Pan lords 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fee3901b7c9b
17:37:06 <MarvinPA> i sure hope this all works
17:38:38 <MarvinPA> oh hm i entirely forgot about the idea of doing it by threat level
17:39:00 <MarvinPA> until i went to remove it from my todo and noticed that's what i'd written there! maybe hd/weird branch factor is still fine though
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17:39:52 <MarvinPA> i wonder if this lets you get a permafriendly serpent of hell
17:41:43 <MarvinPA> nice, looks like it does
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18:03:21 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1528-gfee3901 (34)
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18:04:33 <amalloy> %git cc2e94b136d41d06468ec6023d1a68157b8967a3
18:04:33 <Cheibriados> 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-1518-gcc2e94b: Remove the ] command 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 1+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc2e94b136d4
18:04:46 <amalloy> MarvinPA pls. i just pressed ] like 30 times this game and thought i was going crazy
18:06:20 <amalloy> the message area is too small to hold the output of both [ and " at once, and i can't press an item's letter to inspect it further
18:06:20 <MarvinPA> wow, really
18:06:40 <MarvinPA> what about i
18:06:41 <amalloy> artefact properties don't fit on the % screen
18:06:57 <amalloy> i is okayish, but it includes a bunch of stuff i'm not wearing
18:07:23 <amalloy> i have to scan through throwing weapons, and figure out which items are actually relevant based on the difference between dark green and light green
18:07:42 <MarvinPA> imo that's just an issue of default colouring being bad
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18:08:40 <MarvinPA> i just highlight worn stuff and leave everything else grey, it's way better
18:08:50 <amalloy> maybe. admittedly for me the colour difference stands out well enough. but what do we gain from removing ]?
18:09:21 <MarvinPA> a vital key for an exciting new future command
18:09:28 <|amethyst> also, sometimes people carry more than 18 weapons+armours+staves+jewellery
18:09:46 <amalloy> right. it doesn't always fit on i
18:10:04 <amalloy> i don't think i have done that very often, because that would be an awful lot of non-equipped weapons
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18:10:58 <|amethyst> oh, missiles
18:10:59 <amalloy> it's just nice to have the computer focus on the stuff i want to focus on, instead of presenting me with a big ol' blob of information that happens to include the stuff i want
18:11:08 <|amethyst> maybe if missiles came after jewellery
18:11:14 <amalloy> |amethyst: right, i mentioned missiles. they're the worst, because they come in the middle
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18:13:59 <|amethyst> maybe the 'i' menu could be given some keybindings to narrow the view
18:14:20 <MarvinPA> anyway i'm not hugely opposed to re-unreverting it but i think ultimately sometimes it's better to remove weird niche options and commands even if there are like 2 people who do find a use for them
18:14:57 <MarvinPA> (which is entirely hypocritical because i've definitely added options just because they were things i wanted to use and have no idea if anyone else uses them, but there you go)
18:15:01 <|amethyst> could keep the command and leave it unbound by default
18:16:14 <amalloy> MarvinPA: i agree, if i am the only person in the world who uses this, removing it is fine
18:17:25 <|amethyst> it would help if we had usage data on informational commands à la action counts
18:17:51 <amalloy> |amethyst: i will pollute the metrics by leaving a weight on the " key
18:18:12 <amalloy> (realistically though you could just count like...the number of players who press the button more than once per game)
18:18:44 <|amethyst> right, or the number of players who use ] more than 5% as often as i
18:19:03 <|amethyst> (or the number of games that use...)
18:20:35 <|amethyst> we're close to being able to remove 'p'
18:20:57 <plathrop> That would be awesome
18:21:04 <|amethyst> just need to move ash, beogh, and fedhas prayer to 'a'bilities, then move altar interaction to 'a' as well
18:21:26 <plathrop> I'd also like to see some consistency with evoking
18:21:40 <plathrop> You "Evoke Invisibility"... from the "Ability" menu?
18:21:48 <plathrop> I know. Patches welcome :-P
18:22:02 <|amethyst> how would you fix that though?
18:22:10 <|amethyst> you can't just make it use v
18:22:15 <|amethyst> because you have no way to indicate costs
18:22:22 <|amethyst> s/v/V/
18:22:31 <amalloy> or fail%
18:22:42 <plathrop> |amethyst I know it's not simple :-) I'm just babbling
18:23:00 <|amethyst> maybe it just needs a different word from 'evoke'
18:23:19 <|amethyst> ('activate'?)
18:23:37 <|amethyst> (but that doesn't convey that it's an item)
18:23:51 <amalloy> |amethyst: it would also be nice if items with evocable powers told you how to evoke them
18:24:03 <amalloy> "This powerful ring can be activated to hide its wearer from the view of others"
18:24:08 <amalloy> is the current text on =invis
18:24:56 <amalloy> hints mode does tell you, i guess
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18:28:13 <|amethyst> the |, ctrl-v, and ctrl-t commands could maybe be one command with a prompt for subcommands (like t)
18:28:32 <|amethyst> though I guess that's a pain when you want to toggle
18:29:18 <|amethyst> z/Z and I could maybe be merged too
18:29:46 <amalloy> those are all things i forget how to use
18:30:00 <|amethyst> with a key to toggle between modes (the way 'a' works... I realise ! is already taken)
18:31:09 <|amethyst> (also, would be nice if M had a second toggle to view power/range/hunger, like z already has)
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18:32:37 <wheals> MarvinPA: about the serpent, maybe just disallow bribing uniques in general?
18:35:47 <|amethyst> (and we still have two commands that are bound to two keys each)
18:37:06 <amalloy> g, and s. ?
18:37:14 <|amethyst> oh, three
18:37:30 <|amethyst> (and I'm not sure S is necessary... if the goal is to prevent accidentally saving at the wrong time, surely having ctrl-s sitting right there one modifier key over defeats that purpose)
18:37:56 <amalloy> i used to use S all the time, because i didn't know ^s existed
18:38:06 <|amethyst> amalloy:  g/,  s/./del  and  ~/^d
18:38:39 <amalloy> ah. i forget about the macro keys
18:39:15 <amalloy> personally i unbound s because i sometimes hit it accidentally, and never hit it on purpose
18:39:29 <amalloy> so i've got that key free if you want to add some fancy new commands
18:41:51 <wheals> MarvinPA: and also thanks for knocking off another todo item on my list, next i need to get rid of the ugly hard-coded list in potion petition
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18:42:24 <|amethyst> how would you get rid of it?
18:42:39 <|amethyst> a chance for any potion that has a base cost of more than $x ?
18:42:48 <|amethyst> or allow potion petition to offer things like degeneration?
18:42:55 <wheals> well, shorten it :P
18:43:12 <wheals> instead of a list of arbitrary sets of potions, generate them on the fly
18:43:23 <wheals> and you'd just need a set of all possible potions
18:43:27 <|amethyst> yeah, a one dimensional list sounds like it would be better
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19:59:06 <wheals> i wonder if we should change the ctrl-d thing on \ to a real three-way toggle now that there's significant pickup lua in the default rcfile
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20:00:05 <|amethyst> I wanted a three-way toggle in the first place :)
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20:02:17 <gammafunk> is this a "drop and remove from autopickup" thing?
20:02:33 <gammafunk> that gets requested a lot
20:02:41 <|amethyst> that's separate
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20:02:44 <|amethyst> but would be nice
20:02:53 <|amethyst> this is how, on \, there are three states
20:03:37 <|amethyst> but you need to press ctrl-d to go back to the default "obey autopickup_exceptions" setting
20:03:53 <gammafunk> oh, I see
20:03:56 <|amethyst> (states being grey with either + or -; white +; and white -)
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20:09:23 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/84 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/84
20:09:23 <Cheibriados> 03Roarke02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/84 * 0.17-a0-1529-gbe5a69a: Swap weapon lists for naga mages and naga warriors 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/be5a69a8b52e
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20:44:08 <minmay> !messages
20:44:08 <Sequell> No messages for minmay.
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21:00:16 <_miek> is it accurate to say that sourceforge is an alternate download place for dcss?
21:00:19 <_miek> ??download[2
21:00:19 <Sequell> download[2/2]: While develz is down, try http://sourceforge.net/projects/crawl-ref/ or http://games.softpedia.com/get/Freeware-Games/Dungeon-Crawl-Stone-Soup.shtml
21:00:47 <|amethyst> for the time being it is, but I wouldn't point people to it in general
21:01:02 <|amethyst> except that it's the only place to get most of the old releases
21:01:16 <_miek> wasn't there some shady stuff going down with sourceforge recently?
21:01:51 <|amethyst> yes; it doesn't affect us (at the moment), but some devs want to move away from SF because of it
21:03:06 <_miek> okay.. good to know you're thinking about it
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21:07:19 <|amethyst> Personally I'd rather keep the sf account, and continue uploading things there, so it *doesn't* risk being taken over by SF staff—when people do find Crawl on SF, I'd rather they find something under our control.  But I'd be okay with not actually pointing users to it
21:07:25 <gammafunk> simple mockup of new lab layout based on the "a graph with vaults as nodes and maze segments as edges" with no maprot and autotravel allowed that has been discussed: http://i.imgur.com/hSlhYPc.png
21:07:56 <gammafunk> this is an initial larger maze to three different subvaults, each making a path to an end vault with a shorter maze in between
21:07:59 <gammafunk> and only one has the mino
21:08:47 <gammafunk> this particular layout maybe isn't the most exciting or one we'd actually use, but I want to get a sense of how big the map should be
21:09:03 <gammafunk> currently it's like GXM - 5, GXY - 5, like 75x65
21:09:32 <gammafunk> whereas this is only 46x31
21:10:19 <gammafunk> largest ice cave is like 70x24 or something like that, but that's also a portal with more or less only one path with no backtracking
21:11:45 <amalloy> would it still feel like a lab if you just autoexplored it? i'm sure this has been brought up before. my first reaction is like a hazing ritual with stockholm syndrome: i've gone through this existing lab enough times that i don't want it to change, and also new players should have to do it too
21:11:48 <gammafunk> I'd like to use some additional maze algos aside from the "dig connected path moving two tiles in a random cardinal direction" used in this mockup and in our current labs, but that might require a significantly larger map
21:11:48 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  unless you seriously reduce LOS, it seems too easy
21:12:05 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  too many of the dead ends are visible
21:12:15 <gammafunk> well you can make the map larger to deal with that
21:12:23 <gammafunk> this is probably the smallest map you'd reasonably make for a maze
21:12:36 <|amethyst> yeah
21:12:49 <amalloy> |amethyst: does that even matter, if autoexplore works?
21:12:53 <gammafunk> in practice, moving through it's not too bad, but it's certainly easier
21:13:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: what are yellow and cyan?
21:13:13 <gammafunk> abyss exit and upstairs
21:13:17 <CanOfWorms> oh, do people want a maze generation algorithm??? http://www.astrolog.org/labyrnth/algrithm.htm
21:13:21 <gammafunk> abyss exit for "dead end"
21:13:27 <gammafunk> again just a mockup
21:13:42 <gammafunk> oh not sure why one's yellow though
21:13:42 <|amethyst> amalloy:  it does if there's a reason to visit as little as possible
21:13:49 <wheals> reduced los does sounds interesting
21:14:00 <gammafunk> hrm, yeah I guess that's one idea
21:14:03 <|amethyst> amalloy:  either monsters in the maze, hell effect things
21:14:06 <|amethyst> etc
21:14:14 <gammafunk> and regarding autoexplore, that's really a non-issue
21:14:29 <gammafunk> in terms of "feel like a maze"
21:14:30 <wheals> though maybe minmay might hate that even more :P
21:15:03 <gammafunk> since it can lead you to a dead end, which involves clearing additional vaults (hence risk and rewards of xp, some loot)
21:15:42 <|amethyst> which walls are which material?
21:15:54 <gammafunk> heh, uh lightgrey
21:15:59 <gammafunk> it's using the tar dig algo
21:16:06 <gammafunk> that lua code, slightly modified
21:16:12 <|amethyst> I mean, is that rock?
21:16:17 <|amethyst> or stone I guess?
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21:16:22 <gammafunk> oh, rock at first, stone for second maze
21:16:28 <|amethyst> hm
21:17:16 <|amethyst> I guess sequence breaking with LRD isn't really a problem
21:17:31 <gammafunk> oh, no, I mean you can also just teleport
21:17:45 <gammafunk> and yeah you can sequence break the other portals
21:17:48 <|amethyst> no special teleport rule?
21:18:01 <gammafunk> I don't see that we'd need it, no
21:18:11 <gammafunk> I think another thing I wanted to do was maybe put somemonsters in the maze
21:18:20 <gammafunk> not very many of course
21:18:37 <|amethyst> you definitely need monsters if you allow ordinary teleport
21:18:47 <|amethyst> hm
21:18:49 <|amethyst> or not
21:19:17 <gammafunk> I mean the subvaults and end vaults all have monsters, but yeah in the mazes themselves we could add some
21:19:41 <gammafunk> but if you teleport into the wrong path, it's not like you've helped yourself very much
21:19:43 <|amethyst> I guess no monsters doesn't mean more *Tele go to the minotaur, just that fewer *Tele go elsewhere
21:20:10 <|amethyst> Put on =tele, wait many many turns
21:20:33 <gammafunk> yeah, I mean that's certainly an issue already
21:20:36 <gammafunk> with the labs we have
21:20:40 <gammafunk> or is =tele disabled?
21:20:41 <|amethyst> but that's probably more food-intensive than just exploring the whole lab
21:20:45 <|amethyst> hm
21:20:54 <|amethyst> I don't know how the two things interact
21:20:55 <CanOfWorms> isn't *tele disabled in labs now?
21:21:09 <gammafunk> might be
21:21:15 <|amethyst> oaha
21:21:17 <|amethyst> yeah
21:21:20 <gammafunk> I mean we could retain that I guess, but it seems kind of not necessary to me
21:21:22 <|amethyst> disabled in lab and abyss
21:21:47 <|amethyst> not the whole ring, just teleportitis
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21:22:22 <gammafunk> right, that's why you're bringing this up; forgot it takes you to monsters now
21:22:38 <gammafunk> but yeah, another reason to put monsters in the maze
21:23:03 <gammafunk> but I need to get the map size right and figure out how to make the layout maybe more interesting than "a box" and also see if I can use some different maze algo(s)
21:24:15 <|amethyst> make one that's truly a labyrinth
21:24:22 <|amethyst> just a space-filling curve
21:24:32 <|amethyst> linesprint: the portal vault
21:25:05 <wheals> LINE VAULT
21:25:58 <gammafunk> if it's too easy I'm going to give the mino a quad damage item
21:28:38 <gammafunk> something a bit more like http://www.astrolog.org/labyrnth/sample/sparse2.gif could be cool, but I think it might require too large a map size
21:29:16 <|amethyst> FR: tukima-d rods can cast their spells
21:29:26 <wheals> they can be tukimad?
21:29:32 <wheals> i assumed only OBJ_WEAPONS could
21:29:45 <gammafunk> they can be spectral weaponed
21:29:46 <gammafunk> iirc
21:29:48 <Cheibriados> dancing weapon (15() | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 26 | AC/EV: 5/19 | Dam: 10 | 11non-living, fighter, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 886 | Sz: small | Int: brainless.

21:29:48 <wheals> %??dancing weapon ; rod
21:29:51 <Cheibriados> Bad item name: 'rod of striking'

21:29:51 <wheals> %??dancing weapon ; rod of striking
21:29:55 <wheals> er
21:30:02 <|amethyst> @??dancing weapon ; rod of clouds
21:30:02 <Gretell> dancing weapon (08() | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 26 | AC/EV: 5/19 | Dam: 10 | 11non-living, fighter, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 886 | Sz: small | Int: brainless.
21:30:07 <|amethyst> ("rod" is an OBJ_WEAPON)
21:30:12 <wheals> yeah
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21:30:22 <gammafunk> I guess rods shouldn't be that
21:30:58 <|amethyst> what about staves?
21:31:14 <gammafunk> those you can melee with!
21:31:19 <|amethyst> you can melee with rods
21:31:23 <|amethyst> as clubs
21:31:27 <|amethyst> or was that removed?
21:31:27 <gammafunk> yeah but they're not meant for that
21:31:47 <|amethyst> hm
21:31:58 <|amethyst> at least rods should pop out of the monster's hands
21:32:19 <|amethyst> even if they don't animate
21:33:42 <wheals> yeah, as long as they have to be wielded it's reasonable to make them tukimable
21:33:58 <|amethyst> (or not, but I'd be kind of sad if I tried it to save myself from a monster and it didn't work)
21:34:19 <wheals> though of course ranged weapons aren't
21:34:36 <|amethyst> that's just an implementation detail, right? :)
21:34:56 <|amethyst> I mean, just because no one's implemented dancing ranged weapons
21:35:06 <wheals> they would be pretty sad
21:35:13 <wheals> without dancing ammo, at least
21:35:17 <|amethyst> no, no, give them the monster's ammo stack
21:35:26 <|amethyst> it's just a matter of transferring an item
21:35:42 <wheals> The dancing longbow clumsily bashes you with itself but does no damage.
21:35:42 <|amethyst> @?? dancing longbow
21:35:42 <Gretell> unknown monster: "dancing longbow"
21:35:51 <Cheibriados> dancing weapon (02() | Spd: 12 | HD: 15 | HP: 34 | AC/EV: 15/17 | Dam: 30 | 11non-living, fighter, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 845 | Sz: small | Int: brainless.

21:35:51 <wheals> %??dancing weapon ; longbow
21:35:53 <|amethyst> @?? dancing weapon ; longbow . arrow q:100
21:35:54 <Gretell> Monster 'dancing weapon' can't use items.
21:35:54 <wheals> ha
21:35:56 <|amethyst> aww
21:36:05 <|amethyst> that error would be easy enough to fix
21:36:10 <wheals> i think at one point they caused crashes
21:36:47 <|amethyst> spectral ranged is of course too good for non-dithmenites
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21:37:27 <wheals> ghost ranged would be nice i suppose
21:37:38 <gammafunk> spectral wands when you wield wands, spectral decks back when you could wield decks
21:37:59 <gammafunk> spectral lantern of shadows
21:38:04 <|amethyst> wheals:  would they get infinite ammo, or a random amount?
21:38:08 <wheals> spectral bread rations, to make breadswinging twice as efficient
21:38:12 <gammafunk> dang
21:38:33 <wheals> i think infinite would be most reasonable
21:38:35 <|amethyst> wheals:  (presumably the ammo would be summoned-ish)
21:38:44 <wheals> yeah, poof when it hit the ground
21:38:45 <wheals> very spooky
21:39:02 <|amethyst> and give all the arrows draining brand
21:39:07 <|amethyst> as an homage to draconians
21:40:52 <gammafunk> kind of made you can't have some ranged version of sticks to snakes liked http://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d87172a2ca62bc4336a6c5785cdf11ac?convert_to_webp=true
21:41:01 <gammafunk> s/liked/like/
21:41:14 <gammafunk> and s/made/mad/
21:41:14 <wheals> reaping, naturally
21:41:41 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  sounds like a good warper spell, go for it
21:42:00 <gammafunk> don't you mean AM?
21:42:16 <CanOfWorms> portal pro-reptile
21:42:18 <gammafunk> feels more AM to me
21:42:32 <gammafunk> !xxx CanOfWorms
21:42:32 <Sequell> gammafunk gestures wildly while chanting. 6 tentacled monstrosities appear! The tentacled monstrosity tentacle-slaps CanOfWorms! x6
21:42:33 <|amethyst> I was I was thinking pproj
21:43:28 <CanOfWorms> lewd...
21:43:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk:  was thinking it sounds a lot more like tloc/tmut than tloc/hex
21:43:58 <gammafunk> sounds like we have to make a new background!
21:44:26 <gammafunk> Warped Arcane Marksman
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21:45:12 <CanOfWorms> warcane marksman?
21:45:17 <gammafunk> Actually I'm not sure how that spell would be tloc at all, but who can fathom the ways of Thulsa Doom
21:45:25 <|amethyst> Wucane Mar
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22:26:27 <Cheibriados> Ballistomycete in Trunk 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9858 by bcadren
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22:30:20 <gammafunk> phyte club strikes again
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22:49:08 <Cerpin> ??ballistomycete
22:49:08 <Sequell> ballistomycete[1/3]: they make a buttload of spores
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23:01:23 <PsyMar> I never heard that ballistomycetes were removed, just that giant spores were
23:01:59 <Cheibriados> Error, experience for monster with no damage. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9859 by bcadren
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23:45:42 <gammafunk> !lm * de-- rune min=turns
23:45:46 <Sequell> 21396. [2015-05-13 01:34:20] gammafunk the Convoker (L11 DESu of Sif Muna) found a barnacled rune of Zot on turn 4824. (Shoals:5)
23:46:07 <gammafunk> !lm * de-- rune min=turns urune=2
23:46:08 <Sequell> 3373. [2015-05-14 03:34:28] gammafunk the Convoker (L13 DESu of Sif Muna) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 8678. (Vaults:5)
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23:51:10 <saitcho> hi all.
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23:51:39 <saitcho> im trying to set up a top 10 score list for my server. i see the one that shows on char death but i cant find the script/html for it. is this in code?
23:53:39 <gammafunk> you might just want to run the scoring scripts
23:54:03 <saitcho> hmm i havent found those for some reason
23:54:22 <gammafunk> ??scoring[1
23:54:22 <Sequell> scoring[1/2]: Source for the CAO scoring pages: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_scoring
23:54:31 <gammafunk> !lg saitcho
23:54:32 <Sequell> 56. saitcho the Covered (L5 MiFi), slain by a river rat in Sewer (sewer_minmay_w) on 2015-07-07 00:50:11, with 218 points after 2414 turns and 0:09:02.
23:54:48 <gammafunk> makes pages like this http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/saitcho.html
23:55:03 <gammafunk> including the pages you see in the ToC top right
23:55:09 <gammafunk> which includes top players, top scores
23:55:21 <gammafunk> needs a database to be set up etc
23:56:02 <gammafunk> you can also use tournament scripts
23:56:15 <gammafunk> johnstein has set this up, so you can ask him about that
23:56:48 <saitcho> yea i guess this has to be more informal
23:56:55 <johnstein> yea. it's not horribly complex. just a few things to reword
23:56:58 <johnstein> rewore
23:57:02 <johnstein> rewire
23:57:37 <saitcho> this repo needs auth
23:57:42 <saitcho> dcss_scoring
23:58:43 <johnstein> saitcho: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/experimentals/0.16/overview.html
23:58:58 <johnstein> I hacked it to add an experimental branch summary
23:59:47 <johnstein> and this is what I run for my gaming group for the latest stable. http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/mfcwc/0.16/overview.html