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01:02:22 <Sizzell> Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1510-gb3fb22e (34)
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01:17:52 <Gretell> Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1510-gb3fb22e (34)
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01:53:08 <Gretell> Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1510-gb3fb22e
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02:48:57 <Gretell> Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1510-gb3fb22e
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03:11:39 <Rotatell> Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1510-gb3fb22e (34)
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09:32:04 <scwizard> https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9851
09:32:17 <scwizard> i'm pretty sure this has been annoying everyone lucky enough to find refrigeration since forever
09:34:42 <Cheibriados> Refrigeration has a hard coded forced --more-- prompt 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9851 by scwizard
09:36:14 <|amethyst> I'm a bit confused by prozacelf's comment
09:36:20 <|amethyst> "This is inconsistent with how OTR works, and with how Refrigeration worked in prior iterations."
09:37:12 <|amethyst> it is inconsistent with OTR now, but AFAICT refrig has had that more() since the dawn of stone soup
09:38:36 <|amethyst> (it's inconsistent with OTR now because OTR doesn't work like refrig anymore)
09:39:24 <scwizard> ?? otr
09:39:24 <Sequell> olgreb's toxic radiance[1/1]: L4 Poison. Poisons creatures in LOS (including you) multiple times over several turns. Ignores the caster's rPois, unless fully immune to poison.
09:40:30 <scwizard> |amethyst: well as someone working on a bot, I'm against hardcoded --more-- period full stop so
09:40:37 <scwizard> that's really what it's more about for me
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09:41:30 <|amethyst> yeah, I think removing that more is perfectly reasonable
09:41:52 <scwizard> old behavior can be implemented through force_more
09:41:54 <|amethyst> one question is whether to replace it with a force_more_message by default
09:41:56 <|amethyst> yeah
09:42:23 <scwizard> i'd lean towards no
09:42:33 <scwizard> i don't really think it does something dramatic enough that it's needed
09:43:32 <|amethyst> in practice, you're likely to get a -more- anyway if you have the default show_more = true
09:43:39 <|amethyst> unless there are only a few monsters around
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10:02:39 <ProzacElf_> sorry neil, i was working off of something crate said.  it's been so long since i used refrigeration that i couldn't remember if it had the force more
10:02:56 <ProzacElf_> didn't mean to confuse the issue
10:03:25 <ProzacElf_> but i don't see why refrigeration should be different than otr in regard to a hard-coded message
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10:05:21 <ProzacElf_> looks like you guys have it sorted out, just wanted to explain my thing there
10:07:19 <kvaak> imo the only situation where OTR needs a force_more is when you have rC-
10:07:27 <kvaak> and that applies to any source of cold damage :p
10:07:34 <kvaak> fmm += terrible chill
10:07:40 <kvaak> err, ozo's
10:09:41 <scwizard> NOOO
10:09:49 <scwizard> worshipping gods has a forced more
10:10:13 <scwizard> bleh my bot can't deal with --more-- the mechanics of --more-- are all sorts of screwy
10:11:43 <scwizard> if I put arbitrary stuff into crawl.process_keys
10:12:04 <scwizard> i can't get past the --more-- :(
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10:15:31 <|amethyst> scwizard:  crawl.enable_more(false)
10:18:59 <scwizard> oh
10:20:11 <scwizard> i can't believe i didn't see that before lol
10:20:43 <|amethyst> I just learned about out looking at the code :)
10:20:47 <|amethyst> s/out/it/
10:21:36 <|amethyst> I see there's also a crawl.autoclear_more
10:21:50 <|amethyst> I think that one lasts for just one input?
10:22:13 <|amethyst> elliptic uses both, in different places, in qw, so maybe he can provide some insight
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10:38:57 <|amethyst> FR: branded weapons might be cursed
10:39:40 <|amethyst> (also FR: many many fewer scrolls of remove curse, with Ash cursing made into an ability instead of item sac)
10:40:22 <kvaak> that's a thing?
10:40:43 <|amethyst> ?
10:41:04 <|amethyst> I don't know if there's anything specifically preventing it
10:41:10 <kvaak> ash cursing being an ability
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10:41:29 <|amethyst> it's not a thing, that's why I said "FR" :)
10:41:36 <kvaak> aw
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10:51:33 <amalloy> that sounds cool to me. sounds like it'd be a bit tricky to make cursing relevant past the early game without making it crippling in the early game
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10:55:33 <kvaak> as ridiculous as it sounds one way to do that is to scale the cursing cost with piety
10:55:44 <kvaak> lower piety, lower cost, higher piety, higher cost
10:58:08 <amalloy> i don't think that's necessary; if you make ?rc rare enough to be an issue for non-ash characters, then ash characters won't need cost-scaling to make cursing even more relevant
10:59:00 <kvaak> well this is assuming you no longer use scrolls to curse your equipment
10:59:26 <kvaak> ash identifies a lot of stuff for you so you end up needing less ?rc for removing unwanted equipment than non-ash chars
11:00:39 <elliptic> |amethyst: iirc they both are temporary actually, I forget why I use both though
11:00:59 <kvaak> and if you have a cursed cloak you don't need to remove it to wear-id new cloaks
11:01:23 <kvaak> once you curse a piece of aux equipment there's a good chance you won't want to remove it any time soon
11:01:35 <kvaak> ditto ring + amulet
11:01:57 <|amethyst> for ash chars, ?rc would be solely a rate limiter for strategic item swaps (at least in the slots that you care to curse)
11:02:16 <kvaak> weapon is a more complicated matter since what you find in early D greatly dictates what you want to use
11:02:22 <kvaak> yet you definitely want the skill boost
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11:06:59 <kvaak> (getting it reliably instead of having to gamble for curse weapon would also be a decent early ash boost)
11:09:25 <|amethyst> or remove ?rc entirely and replace it with an evoker
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11:10:27 <kvaak> that could work, although it might be painful in tomb and ossuary
11:10:56 <|amethyst> not ossuary anymore
11:11:03 <kvaak> oh, right
11:11:39 <|amethyst> let it work on all items in inventory
11:11:56 <|amethyst> so you don't have to worry about wearing as many cursed items as possible before using it
11:12:24 <kvaak> gentlemanly punching contests still apply
11:12:31 <kvaak> that reminds me I still haven't done punchtomb
11:13:34 <|amethyst> FR: you can curse your hands, but it also prevents you from picking up items
11:13:42 <|amethyst> hope you're already carrying ?rc!
11:13:55 <|amethyst> (or that we add read-scroll-from-ground)
11:13:58 <kvaak> nah, jus- yeah, that
11:14:31 <kvaak> while you're at it allow inscribing hands
11:17:31 <amalloy> -) Nothing wielded {!D}
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11:46:39 <Cheibriados> Lurking horrors aren't considered dangerous. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9852 by Kvaak
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12:47:32 <Cheibriados> Mummies 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9853 by white_noise
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12:55:10 <amalloy> i tried to fix the lurking horror thing, but i can't figure out where the code is that decides what to display in the monster pane
12:55:32 <amalloy> and mons_is_firewood returns false for lurking horrors, where i thought the problem was that it returns true
12:56:52 <|amethyst> get_monster_info
12:56:59 <|amethyst> if (mons_class_gives_xp(mon->type) || mon->is_child_tentacle() || mons_is_active_ballisto(mon))
12:58:26 <|amethyst> the correct solution is probably to split the M_NO_EXP_GAIN flag into M_NO_THREAT and M_THREAT_NO_XP
12:58:45 <|amethyst> and to change the various mons_class_gives_xp checks to use one or the other of those depending on what is meant
12:59:12 <|amethyst> tentacles and (hyper)active ballistos would get M_THREAT_NO_XP so all those special cases could be removed
12:59:21 <amalloy> that makes sense
12:59:32 <|amethyst> err
13:00:03 <|amethyst> s/one or the other of those/either M_NO_THREAT or M_NO_THREAT | M_THREAT_NO_XP
13:00:56 <|amethyst> or I guess you could have "M_THREAT_NO_XP" keep the name M_NO_EXP_GAIN
13:01:53 <|amethyst> but probably you shouldn't have to write M_NO_THREAT | M_NO_EXP_GAIN in mon-data.h, which would mean that code truly about "no xp" would have to check both flags
13:02:10 <|amethyst> but those are detail
13:02:11 <|amethyst> s
13:06:28 <|amethyst> hm, maybe you could use exp_mod = 0 ?
13:07:02 <|amethyst> hm, no, that might cause problems for sensed monsters
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13:07:26 <amalloy> what is exp_mod?
13:08:07 <|amethyst> it's a field in monster_entry (mon-data.h, just before the genus) that serves as a multiplier for the amount of XP the monster gives
13:08:59 <|amethyst> currently it's only zero for sensed monsters, a few conjured things, and the "ghosts" of removed monsters
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13:31:39 <amalloy> |amethyst: what about defining M_NO_THREAT and M_NO_EXP_GAIN as independent, but with a define in mon-data.h like #define M_NOT_DANGEROUS M_NO_THREAT | M_NO_EXP_GAIN, so that you don't have to write that or'd form in mon-data.h?
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13:45:26 <amalloy> hm. what about stuff like fire vortices and twisters? those give no xp and are threatening, but currently don't appear in the monster pane. do we want them to appear? if so it's easy, just mark them as M_NO_EXP_GAIN; if not i'm not sure what about them is different from lurking horrors
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14:03:12 <scwizard> is there anyway for a bot to check if a monster has line of fire to it or visa versa?
14:06:53 <PsyMar> I think so.
14:07:04 <PsyMar> search some bot's rcfile for "los"
14:07:16 <PsyMar> !rc qw
14:07:17 <Sequell> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/qw.rc
14:07:32 <PsyMar> or not
14:08:30 <PsyMar> I need the cszo rc
14:09:03 <|amethyst> %rc qw
14:09:04 <Sequell> http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/qw.rc
14:09:06 <scwizard> PsyMar: if you want to search qw then
14:09:12 <PsyMar> it's on cszo
14:09:12 <scwizard> https://github.com/elliptic/qw/blob/master/qw.rc
14:09:18 <PsyMar> oh that works too
14:09:32 <scwizard> but qw has no logic about line of fire
14:09:55 <scwizard> that was the first thing I checked :P
14:10:04 <|amethyst> hmm
14:10:34 <PsyMar> I mean isn't anything visible in line of fire
14:10:41 <|amethyst> dlua has it but I don't see anything in clua
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14:11:06 <|amethyst> oh
14:11:24 <|amethyst> I guess it's just can_see, which isn't quite the losparam you want
14:11:58 <PsyMar> It's probably in is_candidate_for_attack
14:12:00 <elliptic> I don't think there is currently any built-in way to check for monsters in the way
14:12:40 <|amethyst> (we should have a los_type for that)
14:12:49 <elliptic> since in general crawl doesn't do that at the same time as computing los, yeah
14:12:53 <|amethyst> (we don't, but we should)
14:12:54 <PsyMar> what do we mean by los?
14:13:04 <PsyMar> because if you can see it it's in los isn't it?
14:13:12 <PsyMar> unless it's an unseen horror or something
14:13:29 <plathrop> even then? arguably it isn't in los if it is invis?
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14:13:32 <|amethyst> PsyMar:  1. glass
14:13:37 <PsyMar> ah
14:13:43 <|amethyst> PsyMar:  2. scwizard asked for "line of fire", so monsters
14:13:58 <elliptic> |amethyst: part of the problem is that you can't just check the ray formed by targetting the monster you are trying to hit
14:13:58 <plathrop> duh, of course, glass.
14:13:59 <elliptic> for this check
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14:14:47 <|amethyst> elliptic:  oh, since it doesn't try alternate paths if a monster is in the way
14:14:59 <|amethyst> so you might have to target behind it, out of range etc
14:15:10 <elliptic> the very simple question "can I hit this monster with magic dart?" is sort of difficult to check (either for humans or for bots)
14:15:22 <scwizard> ^
14:15:31 <elliptic> and then you'd really also want to return the square to target to actually hit the monster
14:15:56 <scwizard> and it's especially relevant because I was planning on making a caster bot before I decided to scale back and do a TrMo
14:16:06 <|amethyst> and then that still wouldn't account for beam spells, dazzling ray, IMB, ...
14:16:16 <scwizard> although even for the TrMo, I'm very curious if the orc wizard can hit me with magic dart
14:16:23 <elliptic> I mean, if you ignore allies then you can just target the monster you want to hit and not worry about anything in the way
14:16:48 <|amethyst> what if TRJ is in the way? :)
14:16:52 <elliptic> in the other direction, monsters don't do clever targetting for most spells
14:17:24 <plathrop> Are bots using some sort of API or do they just connect over SSH to do their thing?
14:17:31 <elliptic> so it probably wouldn't be hard to expose something simple to lua that would tell you whether a monster will hit you with a mdart targetting you
14:17:36 <|amethyst> most of them use the lua API
14:17:46 <|amethyst> which is mostly undocumented
14:18:00 <elliptic> though that still won't help with monsters with penetrating spells, since they will sometimes fire through their friends to hit you
14:18:17 <|amethyst> the bit of documentation that is there is for the game-side API which players aren't allowed to use
14:18:23 <|amethyst> s/is for/is mostly for/
14:18:29 * plathrop nods
14:18:42 <|amethyst> I think there was one bot that worked over ssh
14:18:45 <plathrop> yeah, I saw a little of that when I got excited about writing rc files
14:18:58 <|amethyst> and someone was working on a bot that worked over webtiles?
14:19:06 <plathrop> Then I quickly got not excited about that anymore because undocumented APIs be hard.
14:19:11 <|amethyst> ??bots
14:19:11 <Sequell> bots[1/3]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Rotatell (CBRO, ^), Eksell (CXC, |); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? & and others)
14:19:14 <|amethyst> ??bots[2]
14:19:14 <Sequell> bots[2/3]: For bots that are written to play crawl instead of talking about it: !nick bot (includes human/bot hybrids such as cashybrid and parabolic).
14:19:15 <|amethyst> ??bots[3]
14:19:15 <Sequell> softignore[1/6]: Bots too annoying? If you have the right client, try this:
14:19:18 <|amethyst> !nick bot
14:19:18 <plathrop> A webtiles bot could be interesting
14:19:19 <Sequell> Mapping bot => autorobin xw auto7hm rw qw ow qwrobin gw notqw jw parabodrick hyperqwbe cashybrid tstbtto parabolic oppbolic ew rushxxi gaubot cojitobot paulcdejean
14:19:23 <elliptic> |amethyst: rwbarton made a bot that works using webtiles, I'm not aware of any projects that just use ssh
14:19:31 <|amethyst> oh, I guess that was it
14:19:35 <|amethyst> what was the name of the bot?
14:19:38 <elliptic> !hs rw
14:19:39 <Sequell> 2754. rw the Severer (L14 GrBe of Trog), slain by a 13-headed hydra on Lair:5 on 2014-08-29 16:52:07, with 42378 points after 20353 turns and 0:14:00.
14:19:47 <|amethyst> ??rw
14:19:48 <Sequell> rw[1/1]: <clouded_> rw is like watching a baby grow
14:20:16 <elliptic> https://github.com/rwbarton/rw
14:20:30 <|amethyst> thanks, just found that
14:20:39 <|amethyst> !learn add rw https://github.com/rwbarton/rw
14:20:40 <Sequell> rw[2/2]: https://github.com/rwbarton/rw
14:20:41 <plathrop> I'm kinda interested in evolutionary algorithms; writing an evolving bot could be fun.
14:20:57 <amalloy> |amethyst: looking at the monsters that currently have M_NO_EXP_GAIN, a number of them are "threatening" but currently don't appear in the monster list. like OODs and crawling corpses. it seems like there's not a very close correspondence between "monsters that are threatening" and "things that appear on the monster list"
14:21:08 <elliptic> probably broken by some webtiles changes since september, though I think he might have some local fixes that just aren't in the repo
14:21:44 <plathrop> I'd have to learn a bunch of crap before I started writing a bot though; I should focus that effort on patches first
14:22:01 * plathrop is "thinking out loud" sorry
14:22:35 <|amethyst> amalloy:  OOD is not listed because it has no attacks
14:22:39 <|amethyst> amalloy:  mons_is_safe
14:23:06 <|amethyst> oh
14:23:21 <|amethyst> never mind, it passes dangerous_only = false
14:24:08 <amalloy> otoh i think it'd be nice to put crawling corpses on the monster list anyway
14:24:49 <PsyMar> hm, I'm thinking if I do a nethack bot I'd better use java
14:25:07 <PsyMar> because the enums-that-do-different-things-for-different-values feature could come in really handy
14:25:22 <PsyMar> (I am limiting my choices to C++ and Java because those are what I know best)
14:25:42 <PsyMar> I suppose I could try something that someone else has written a bot in, but...
14:26:09 <|amethyst> but that's haskell
14:26:11 <|amethyst> so
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14:27:21 <PsyMar> hm, where'd I put my collection of NH bots
14:27:22 <PsyMar> there it is
14:27:23 <PsyMar> C:\Users\PsyMar\Desktop\Thumbdrive\DesktopBackup\Random Junk\Bots
14:27:28 <PsyMar> very convenient location
14:28:02 * PsyMar renames it to NHBots, and puts a link on his desktop
14:28:33 <amalloy> i heard about a nethack bot in clojure a few months ago, which i got the impression was the first one to ascend with no human interference at all
14:28:41 <PsyMar> I didn't hear that had happened
14:29:34 <PsyMar> let's see, I have bots in c, python, ruby, perl, I'm guessing .cs files are C#
14:29:40 <MarvinPA> https://www.reddit.com/r/nethack/comments/2tluxv/yaap_fullauto_bot_ascension_bothack
14:30:18 <PsyMar> damn, so much for me being the first
14:30:38 <|amethyst> write a bot for Castle of the Winds
14:30:50 <PsyMar> never heard of it.  I could still go for the first puddingfarmlingless NH win
14:31:03 <|amethyst> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_the_Winds#/media/File:Castle_of_the_Winds_screenshot.gif
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14:38:52 <PsyMar> ok, time to learn clojure I guess
14:38:55 <PsyMar> or perl or something
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14:39:30 <PsyMar> preferably not clojure, I guess, I don't want to be accused of totally ripping off someone else's bot
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14:41:04 <plathrop> Write it in Rubby!
14:41:26 <plathrop> PsyMar: or even better: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/
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14:42:20 <amalloy> i don't imagine anyone would accuse you of ripping off a bot. there's a reason people open-source stuff
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14:45:13 <PsyMar> yeah, but aside from the telnet code I kinda want to try it myself
14:46:04 <PsyMar> the lack of telnet support (AFAIK) is the only thing preventing me from going ahead and starting with java
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15:07:17 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1511-g434df5b: Remove most random mimics 10(29 minutes ago, 18 files, 85+ 224-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/434df5b33ac1
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15:23:26 <amalloy> MarvinPA: last night i actually had my first interesting mimic encounter since they lost their claws
15:23:56 <amalloy> which was a mimim up-stair on the orb run. i see why it might not be good to have those (since, as you say, it encourages players to check every < just in case)
15:24:16 <amalloy> but i thought it was a fun experience, and rare enough that i don't plan to check every < from now on
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15:24:46 <scwizard> is there any way to get autoexplore to work in stiatuions like this? http://i.imgur.com/BDb6d3D.png
15:24:47 <MarvinPA> good thing you don't need to anyway now! :P
15:25:48 <amalloy> oh and i guess portal mimics are still fun, as you note
15:26:04 <PsyMar> scwizard: take a couple steps away or go around and kill it
15:26:05 <amalloy> but why leave shop mimics in? all it does is make me feel robbed when my orc:4 has only 3 shops
15:26:27 <PsyMar> wait, mimics can *replace* a fixed shop?
15:26:31 <PsyMar> what the hell
15:27:24 <Lasty> MarvinPA: just lost a shop in a bazaar to a mimic. If only your patch had been pushed a day sooner, this tragedy could have been prevented.
15:27:31 <MarvinPA> well they don't have the same bad effects as stair mimics do, and i'm fine with randomly being mean to players sometimes!
15:27:47 <scwizard> PsyMar: why should I have to do anything? it's marked as is_safe()
15:27:54 <scwizard> wait nm no it's not
15:27:58 <MarvinPA> Lasty: no it wouldn't!
15:28:00 <amalloy> Lasty: no, he left in shop mimics just for you
15:28:03 <Lasty> whaaat
15:28:17 <|amethyst> scwizard:  probably you'd have to add your own code to ch_mon_is_safe
15:28:30 <|amethyst> (the default version comes from dat/clua/runrest.lua)
15:28:37 <PsyMar> scwizard: you could tab it
15:28:44 <PsyMar> maybe
15:28:50 <|amethyst> PsyMar:  tab will run up to the glass :(
15:28:53 <PsyMar> oh :(
15:29:23 <reaverb> |amethyst I'm trying to setup cygwin compilation on my machine. I'm fine until I get to linking Crawl, but then the process fails.
15:29:45 <reaverb> I believe it might caused by this issue, since it says `_beginthreadex' etc. are undefined: http://www.sqlite.org/src/info/2037442c582e51d85967bc911ea4a412eb4da573
15:29:49 <|amethyst> scwizard:  as for checking whether it's behind class, you can probably use  you.see_cell_no_trans()
15:30:00 <reaverb> Also hello |amethyst! Sorry I haven't been around for a while.
15:30:50 <PsyMar> reaverb: update your cygwin and its components?
15:30:52 <|amethyst> reaverb:  howdy
15:31:01 <scwizard> |amethyst: what does that do?
15:31:03 <|amethyst> PsyMar:  our contrib sqlite is what needs to be updated
15:31:04 <PsyMar> because that looks to have been fixed
15:31:10 <PsyMar> oh
15:31:15 <|amethyst> scwizard:  checks whether you have LOS to a cell, ignoring glass
15:31:40 <PsyMar> wait, seriously?  that would've been good to know in the bot discussion earlier
15:32:09 <scwizard> oh so I'd override ch_mon_is_safe and do some things with you.see_cell_no_trans()
15:32:22 <|amethyst> I'm not sure about the details of getting the monster's position relative to you
15:32:31 <scwizard> i already know how to do that
15:32:47 <scwizard> |amethyst: what do you mean "checks if you have los to a cell, ignoring glass"
15:32:47 <|amethyst> scwizard:  yeah, add before everything a if you can't see the monster no_trans, return safe
15:33:11 <scwizard> does that mean it will treat glass as opaque?
15:33:14 <PsyMar> scwizard: I presume it means it checks whether you could see the cell if glass were rock
15:33:14 <|amethyst> yes
15:33:20 <scwizard> alright
15:33:34 <|amethyst> treats grates, statues, etc as transparent though
15:33:39 <|amethyst> which differs from LOS_SOLID
15:33:58 <|amethyst> LOS_NO_TRANS is what most smite spells require
15:34:05 <scwizard> why are grates differenciated from glass?
15:34:13 <scwizard> wait you can't smite through glass?
15:34:16 <|amethyst> right
15:34:22 <scwizard> didn't know that...
15:34:30 <|amethyst> that was changed a few years ago
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15:34:44 <scwizard> i remember having an easy hall of blades
15:34:51 <PsyMar> is there a you.can_access or something?
15:34:53 <scwizard> sniping everything when xom would glass an area
15:35:00 <scwizard> with airstrike
15:35:00 <PsyMar> that would treat all of those other things as opaque?
15:36:10 <|amethyst> not in lua, but it could be implemented easily enough
15:36:18 <|amethyst> LOS_SOLID is the los type for that
15:36:21 <|amethyst> !source los_type
15:36:21 <Sequell> 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/enum.h#l4737
15:37:00 <|amethyst> or LOS_SOLID_SEE if you want semi-opaque clouds to be semi-opaque
15:37:20 <|amethyst> bushes and semi-opaque clouds
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15:38:25 <scwizard> hmm so my bot isn't getting stuck very often now
15:38:33 <scwizard> but it has a problem where its life points reach zero
15:38:35 <scwizard> very tricky...
15:38:50 <PsyMar> lol
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15:39:03 <|amethyst> put it in wizmode
15:39:50 <scwizard> it seems to be caused by stuff like this: Robin hits you with a short sword of electrocution. You are electrocuted!
15:40:09 <|amethyst> btw
15:40:37 <|amethyst> we should have an option to exempt monsters with weapons from comes-into-view genus merging
15:41:56 <|amethyst> and a way to get the monster's known inventory in clua
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15:47:54 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/82 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/82
15:47:54 <Cheibriados> 03amalloy02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/82 * 0.17-a0-1512-g87778cd: Distinguish between 0-xp monsters and non-threatening ones 10(6 minutes ago, 18 files, 51+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/87778cd276ca
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15:48:21 <amalloy> !lg * killer=robin s=ckaux
15:48:21 <Sequell> 2988 games for * (killer=robin): 358x spear, 252x goblin, 244x wand of flame, 225x wand of magic darts, 224x, 213x trident, 193x mace, 191x wand of frost, 189x club, 128x short sword, 95x falchion, 91x whip, 70x dagger, 37x whip of electrocution, 35x mace of protection, 31x spear of piercing, 31x spear of venom, 25x dagger of electrocution, 20x spear of flaming, 18x spear of distortion, 18x spear ...
15:50:01 <MarvinPA> hmm, is there any useful distinction between cases where healing prints "you feel a little better" instead of just "better"
15:50:16 <MarvinPA> i was going to can the messages for that and gaining mp
15:50:44 <MarvinPA> but i guess "better" vs "much better" for curing/hw should stay, and then "a little" and "much" are also used inconsistently elsewhere
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15:53:32 <amalloy> |amethyst: ^ is my attempt at fixing the lurking-horror thingy
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16:03:07 <Cheibriados> New branch created: pull/83 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/83
16:03:08 <Cheibriados> 03DrKe02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/83 * 0.17-a0-1511-gc4d4cfd: Let Ashenzari boost skills at 2* once again 10(17 minutes ago, 4 files, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c4d4cfdad74d
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16:43:13 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1512-g5f46c4d: Tweak some card descriptions 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f46c4ddd076
16:43:13 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1513-gbeb67d8: Add a message when the wild magic card restores MP 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/beb67d8b4795
16:43:13 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1514-g90213ca: Can some messages 10(25 minutes ago, 10 files, 25+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/90213ca8f6b7
16:43:13 <Cheibriados> 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1515-gfae3d72: Adjust some skill descriptions 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fae3d725803f
16:44:57 <MarvinPA> (i had no idea the wild magic card restored mp, v. exciting discovery)
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17:33:38 <gammafunk> MarvinPA is really on-message today
17:33:45 <gammafunk> (sorry Grunt is on vacation and I'm filling in)
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17:36:27 <gammafunk> amalloy: That PR is a good start, although I do see some monsters getting that "no threat" flag where it looks pretty dubious, e.g. monster tentacles are no threat even though they definitely are from a player perspective, as opposed to tentacle segments which I suppose would be correctly marked as not a threat
17:37:01 <gammafunk> s/monster tentacles are no threat/monster tentacles are flagged as no threat/
17:37:22 <amalloy> gammafunk: yeah, i think it could use a better name than "no threat"; i mentioned that to |a earlier but i don't quite know what the right name is
17:37:40 <amalloy> maybe it's something like M_BORING
17:37:44 <gammafunk> yeah, was thinking somethig similar, like "don't target", but I also need to look at all the contexts
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17:39:21 <gammafunk> #define M_NOT_DANGEROUS (M_NO_EXP_GAIN | M_NO_THREAT)
17:39:30 <gammafunk> also seems like it's at least badly named
17:39:45 <|amethyst> err
17:40:00 <|amethyst> what does M_NOT_DANGEROUS mean?
17:40:17 <|amethyst> I mean, why would M_NOT_DANGEROUS be something other than M_NO_THREAT?
17:41:07 <|amethyst> oh, I see
17:41:11 <|amethyst> it's only for use in mon-data
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17:42:38 <gammafunk> it's confusing for something like an ood
17:42:47 <gammafunk> to call it "no threat"
17:43:15 <|amethyst> probably it shouldn't have that flag?
17:43:24 <|amethyst> oh, I guess the targetting thing you mentioned
17:43:43 <gammafunk> yeah, I need to look through all the use-cases
17:44:09 <|amethyst> but I don't see a problem with listing IOOD in get_monster_info for example
17:45:22 <gammafunk> hrm, we exclude all no-xp things that aren't tentacles or ballistos
17:45:47 <|amethyst> that's changed in amalloy's patch
17:46:11 <gammafunk> well I'm not sure he's thought through the implications of that
17:46:30 <gammafunk> I don't know all the callers of that function in terms of what the purpose of the listing is
17:46:46 <gammafunk> yeah I see direction chooser using it
17:47:48 <|amethyst> oh, I was thinking tentacles would not get the no-threat flag
17:48:27 <|amethyst> oh, but the lost soul stuff...
17:49:05 <|amethyst> the gozag thing should check gives_xp, not is_threatening
17:49:13 <gammafunk> he also marks fulminant prisms, battlespheres, and spellforged servitors as no threat
17:50:17 <|amethyst> hm
17:50:31 <|amethyst> I guess prism is firewood currently?
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17:51:01 <|amethyst> which would mean monsters would be happy to cut down their own prisms
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17:53:39 <|amethyst> I don't see a problem with those things being considered a threat
17:53:48 <|amethyst> OoD is a little bit of a weird case because you can'
17:54:00 <|amethyst> t hurt it
17:54:03 <|amethyst> likewise twister
17:54:23 <|amethyst> which should maybe be *another* flag that is checked by targetting code but not monster list
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17:54:49 <|amethyst> (or can you hurt twisters?)
17:58:11 <gammafunk> @??twister
17:58:11 <Gretell> twister (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 0/5 | 11non-living, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: brainless.
17:58:14 <gammafunk> dang
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17:58:26 <gammafunk> I had no idea they were invincible
17:58:50 <gammafunk> @??orb_of_destruction
17:58:50 <Gretell> orb of destruction (16*) | Spd: 30 | HD: 5 | HP: 1000 | AC/EV: 0/10 | 11non-living, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 08acid+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 0 | Sz: little | Int: brainless.
17:58:53 <Lasty> I used to think malign gateway tentacles were invincible
17:58:56 <gammafunk> wow, it also has EV
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17:59:46 <gammafunk> I'm realizing I don't even know what happens if you do hit an ood with something
18:01:50 <|amethyst> nothing happens if you try
18:02:00 <|amethyst> doesn't take a turn or anything
18:02:56 <gammafunk> but if you zap a bolt that misses something and hits an ood, I guess that just does nothing to it?
18:03:19 <Lasty> I'm pretty sure that's true
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18:03:27 <Lasty> Does it even check for hits?
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18:03:34 <Lasty> I've tried and IIRC it doesn't
18:03:40 <gammafunk> I bet it does, since I see it has EV
18:03:53 <|amethyst> you can shoot through it actually
18:03:55 <Lasty> don't all monsters have EV?
18:04:06 <|amethyst> even with magic dart
18:04:13 <Lasty> yeah
18:04:16 <gammafunk> oh, hrm, also projectiles?
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18:04:42 <|amethyst> yes
18:05:14 <|amethyst> and if you target the floor on an OOD, the projectile will land harmlessly beneath it
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18:09:17 <Lantell> Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1515-gfae3d72 (34)
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18:24:45 <Cheibriados> ghost moth message bug 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9854 by namelastname112
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18:33:42 <|amethyst> hm
18:34:04 <|amethyst> nothing seems to actually use @player_only@ other than to strip it
18:34:26 <|amethyst> I had assumed it would prevent the message from being selected if the foe is a monster, but I'm not seeing anything that would do that
18:35:52 <|amethyst> as for the bug, monster casting doesn't do do_mon_str_replacements
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18:42:09 <|amethyst> oh, it does
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18:42:29 <|amethyst> but do_mon_str_replacements doesn't replace it if the target isn't a player
18:43:09 <|amethyst> hm
18:43:39 <|amethyst> could have do_mon_str_replacements return the empty string if @player_only@ is found and the foe is a monster
18:44:23 <|amethyst> but that wouldn't retry (by the time mon_speaks_msg calls d_m_s_r it's too late to pick a new message)
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20:12:51 <Grunt> gammafunk: can it
20:12:53 <Grunt> <_<
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22:02:41 <scwizard> Wait is it true that there's no way right now to know what kind of weapon a monster is holding?
22:02:49 <scwizard> (in lua I mean)
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