00:01:39 !lg * recent --ne !won s=god 00:01:40 23188 games for * (recent --ne !won): 18452x, 1839x Kikubaaqudgha, 752x Makhleb, 500x Sif Muna, 299x Ashenzari, 204x Okawaru, 170x Vehumet, 163x Cheibriados, 157x Ru, 139x Yredelemnul, 104x Dithmenos, 91x Nemelex Xobeh, 82x Gozag, 82x Beogh, 70x Qazlal, 46x Xom, 8x The Shining One, 7x Lugonu, 6x Trog, 6x Jiyva, 5x Zin, 4x Fedhas, Elyvilon, Pakellas 00:01:59 er 00:02:02 !lg * recent --ne won s=god 00:02:03 228 games for * (recent --ne won): 56x Kikubaaqudgha, 53x Makhleb, 35x Ashenzari, 11x, 10x Cheibriados, 10x Sif Muna, 10x Okawaru, 10x Vehumet, 6x Nemelex Xobeh, 5x Dithmenos, 5x Ru, 4x The Shining One, 4x Qazlal, 3x Yredelemnul, 2x Jiyva, 2x Zin, Elyvilon, Gozag 00:03:44 ash good sif bad 00:04:15 !lg chequers won s=cls 00:04:16 7 games for chequers (won): 4x Fighter, 2x Monk, Gladiator 00:04:26 yeah, you're a really good authority on winning mages 00:06:16 er why the aggression 00:06:25 just a lighthearted comment on those two --ne queries 00:10:13 !apt gr 00:10:14 Gr: Fighting: 1, Short: -1, Long: -1, Axes: -1, Maces: 0, Polearms: -1, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: 0, Xbows: 0, Throw: 0, Armour: 1, Dodge: -2, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 1, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: -1, Tmut: -2, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: -1, Exp: 0, HP: -2, MP: 0 00:10:42 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:11:21 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:01 ??mp 00:12:02 mp[1/3]: Cast spells with this. Mp increases by 1 for each XL you gain. It also increases by 1 per highest skill value you have among Spellcasting, Invo, and Evo, where Invo and Evo count as 0.5 skill per level. The first 8 matching levels of XL and skill give you 0.5 mp each, so XL 3 and spellcasting 3 gives an extra 1.5 mp. Mp is not capped. 00:14:25 maybe I will have to try a conj to see if mid-game mp is kind of bad 00:15:38 Lasty: Have you done a mage since your latest mp change? Wanted to see if mp levels feel right given the new formula, but I kind of realized too late that I'll have to do maybe veh or ash since channel means I won't really have a problem (wanted to test Ne-related stuff) 00:16:49 !tell Lasty Have you done a mage since your latest mp change? Wanted to see if mp levels feel right given the new formula, but I kind of realized too late that I'll have to do maybe veh or ash since channel means I won't really have a problem (wanted to test Ne-related stuff) 00:16:49 gammafunk: OK, I'll let lasty know. 00:17:33 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:19:47 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:53 -!- bleak_fire_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:34 -!- silentsigil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:23:24 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:30 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f (34) 00:33:55 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:13 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:36:48 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:40:12 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:44:32 -!- Gmork has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:44:39 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 00:55:05 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:55:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:25 -!- Suga_H has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:05:17 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:24 -!- kazimuth has quit [Client Quit] 01:10:19 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f (34) 01:13:57 -!- Bcadren is now known as the_colour 01:16:59 -!- Chance672 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:27 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:22 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f (34) 01:23:02 i decided to put sif on B tier 01:23:43 sorry but sif is cleary S tier 01:23:48 beogh is B tier 01:24:22 then no one else can be B tier 01:24:38 your rank system is useless 01:24:59 i mean it had potential but you have to put the effort in man 01:25:13 uh, no, all the other B gods that only work for one race 01:25:17 will be tied 01:27:16 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:27:24 yeah but there are no other B gods 01:27:35 even without the racial requirement 01:27:44 -!- imantor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:28:31 -!- the_colour is now known as Bcadren 01:33:33 -!- Idolo has quit [] 01:36:34 -!- fiddlerwoaroof has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:38:28 <_miek> 1learn add minmay_trolling sorry but sif is clearly S tier 01:39:32 ive done much trollier trolls than that 01:39:33 cleary, even 01:40:24 <_miek> I'm just suggesting we have an entry for it 01:40:33 <_miek> Dg is better than Mi 01:41:23 it is though 01:44:01 -!- Guest49820 is now known as SwissStopwatch 01:47:23 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:23 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Changing host] 01:47:23 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:48:02 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:48:41 tabstorm goes into a rage every time he hears someone mention "Dg is better than Mi" 01:49:35 DrKe: what about the species and class tier lists? 01:49:44 let's just rank it all, once and for all 01:50:17 -!- alvarops has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:08 <_miek> have there been any rarity changes for !resistance recently? 01:52:22 yes it was made more common 01:53:12 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f 01:54:25 <_miek> okay.. opposite of my experience so must just be a luck thing 01:54:47 ha! fooled you, no it wasn't 01:54:50 another great minmay troll 02:04:41 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:05:36 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:15:56 legendary 02:17:32 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:28:28 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:33 -!- ZoloftElf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:33 -!- ZoloftElf is now known as ProzacElf_ 02:44:01 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:46:20 -!- Ryzor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:50:51 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f 02:50:58 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:16 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:56:50 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:01:57 -!- Fusha has quit [] 03:07:35 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:00 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:35 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:51 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 03:10:53 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:26 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:19:44 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:22:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f (34) 03:22:38 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:32:45 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 03:34:29 -!- TonyMeatballs has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:56 -!- Medar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:41 -!- Gurmil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:00:40 -!- Stereographer has joined ##crawl-dev 04:03:59 Tried to build crawl (cygwin instructions); getting this error. Anyone know what I did wrong? http://pastebin.com/LmjARNt5 04:08:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:46 I can't find a Lua/Src/ folder to try to prebuild which is what the error looks like it wants me to do. The only lua folder (source/contrib/lua) is empty. 04:12:44 I'm going to try the (longer) minGW instructions; if that fails too...I'm unsure if I'm willing to download all 10 gigs of visual studio to do that. 04:16:48 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:24:46 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:26:25 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:14 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:49 -!- Zooty has quit [] 04:42:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:50 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 04:43:43 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:51:12 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:56 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:55:21 All that work and...SAME ERROR. augh. Alright, I don't think I'm doing something wrong, I think there's something missing in the source or a step not mentioned in INSTALL.txt 04:55:58 pcre subdirectory exists but the makefile is missing 05:08:55 -!- namad8 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:53 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:15:20 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:18 -!- husanu2 has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 05:20:33 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:21:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:21:52 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:28:45 -!- husanu3 has quit [Killed (marienz (Drones are not welcome on freenode.))] 05:29:23 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:11 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:48 -!- Ladykiller70 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:34 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:38:42 -!- Ladykiller70 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:39:14 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:49:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:15 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:02:15 -!- mibe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:06:43 -!- BlackGyver has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:50 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:12:49 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:14:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:40 -!- omniscient has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:17:13 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:19:17 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:19:28 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:21:26 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 06:22:44 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:54 -!- gressup|sleep is now known as gressup 06:59:43 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:01:07 -!- Hosg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:01:51 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:30 -!- DDFig has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:04:39 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:04:46 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:05:30 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:17 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:49 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 07:14:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:28 -!- teukkam has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:22:57 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 07:26:48 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:34:27 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:34:53 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:27 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 07:45:00 -!- cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:21 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:02:22 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:07:16 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:47 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:17:13 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:17:24 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:17:51 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:16 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:28:54 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:35 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:37:32 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:40:06 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:42:39 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:32 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:45:56 -!- tealeaves has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:12 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:24 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 08:58:14 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:59:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:10:05 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:11:52 -!- DDFig has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:13:52 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:14:35 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:15:02 -!- teukkam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:15:26 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:28:51 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:29:10 -!- asdu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:29:47 rings changes their look (tile) after being identified 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9819 by white_noise 09:29:51 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 09:31:32 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:56 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:43 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:40:06 -!- tealeaves has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:41:52 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:43:05 -!- twofortypee has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:49:45 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:51:36 So, spellpower stepdowns are a little bit spoilery, and in particular the way that they mean raising magic skills to improve spellpower gets increasingly pointless. I'd be interested in adjusting the hash meter to use either color or | delimiters (if they fit) to mark the stepdown points, and then ideally provide matching documentation for players who get curious enough to find out what they mean. 09:51:44 Other devs, whatta ya think? 09:56:45 -!- Calico_D has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:55 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:57:12 is the stepdown rule something simple, like the spellpower represented in this hash is stepped down to 50%? 09:57:29 <|amethyst> there aren't actual stepdown points anymore 09:57:45 <|amethyst> it's ultimately step * log2(1 + value/step) 09:58:13 <|amethyst> there is the start of stepdown below which it's linear 09:58:15 <|amethyst> and the max value 09:58:34 hrm, so markers/colors would just mean "spellpower is stepped down at this point" 09:59:34 Lasty_: also the *real* Lasty has a message I sent it 09:59:35 gammafunk: yeah 09:59:38 <|amethyst> you could still have ticks or colours, to show the logarithmness of the scale, but only that first one would actually be a hard brakepoint 09:59:45 <|amethyst> s/ake/eak/ 09:59:53 gammafunk: I got a message from you yesterday, but I no longer recall what it said 10:00:03 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:13 asking if you'd done a mage recently given the mp changes? 10:00:18 gammafunk: yeah, several! 10:00:24 also, didn't see that message, sorry 10:00:46 I'd heard that mp in midgames is a bit problematic now, but has that been your experience? 10:00:47 Spellcasting is definitely a more important skill now 10:01:03 No, but I don't play the "pure casters" that are all the rage w/ the Sandman set 10:01:03 yeah, looking at the formula, I'm for sure going to need like 15 SC 10:01:47 My experience is that with a modest (8-12) investment in Spellcasting, mp isn't much of a problem for me, but that I'm generally a bit excited to find a ring of magical power early, which was never true before 10:02:07 I'll probably do an ash/veh char after I test this Ne^Sif to see for myself, but yeah doesn't sound too bad 10:02:18 you made starting mp lower as well with this change? 10:02:26 I'd be interested to hear your thoughts 10:02:31 gammafunk: no, usually the same if not higher 10:02:34 ok 10:02:38 so Mu is just Mu then 10:02:40 for heavily magic penalized races it might be lower 10:03:03 Sif will mean I'll not notice mp problems too much, but without channel I should see it 10:03:06 Racial mp modifier is a flat bonus/penalty now, so minotaur casters are probably in bad shape 10:03:18 !apt mu 10:03:18 Mu: Fighting: 0, Short: -2, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: -2, Staves: -2, Slings: -2, Bows: -2, Xbows: -2, Throw: -2*, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -1, Shields: -2, UC: -2*, Splcast: -1, Conj: -2, Hexes: -1, Charms: -2, Summ: -2, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -2, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -2, Earth: -2, Poison: -2, Inv: -1*, Evo: -2, Exp: -1, HP: 0, MP: 0 10:03:37 also, regarding animated remains, you basically can't do the kill em all with zombies/skells style Ne without going kiku, it seems 10:04:00 -1 isn't too bad there, but they probably would profit from training spellcasting up a whole number at the beginning to get the extra point of mp 10:04:21 yeah I trainded 66/33 Necro/SC 10:04:25 but I tend to like training early SC 10:04:34 gammafunk: I've been using necro minion spells much more since I made that change (before they felt unfair/boring), and I rarely go anywhere w/o a swarm of minions 10:04:41 but you do have to move faster and rest less to make it happen 10:04:58 Training early spellcasting is better now than it's ever been before 10:05:01 yeah, I've certainly not had nearly as many Z as I remember 10:05:33 You don't generally have LOS full of minions any more 10:06:02 I doesn't feel bad, although I'm not sure if animate dead + skel is at the best place in terms of giving Ne a lot of power 10:06:20 I guess so many are going kiku/veh/sif that they'll get more spells anyhow 10:06:41 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:07:00 pain is still really good, as is vamp drain, so it's not like it's a weak background but it's certainly less crazy than it was 10:07:11 IMO AD and AS are still way better than most spells of their level 10:07:18 and AD + Kiku still wrecks Zot:5 10:07:48 They just don't make you 100% invincible anymore 10:08:01 AD will definitely still scale really really well 10:08:03 since there is a finite limit on the number you can have 10:08:38 what it does feel like is this awkward thing where you cast AD or AS always 10:08:41 I've won at least 2, maybe 4ish characters leaning on the spells since I made the change, and at least for me they're no weaker than ever 10:08:43 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:43 -!- debo has quit [Client Quit] 10:08:48 and like half the time it dies before you even fight a monster 10:08:49 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:17 they last so long! As a speed runner, how are you taking that long between monsters? 10:09:27 oh I'm not speedrunning Ne :) 10:09:32 I'm a Mu even! 10:09:45 all the time to rest in the world 10:10:33 maybe I should try it as a living species, but I also want to try haunt 10:11:34 we kind of need a better drawback for haunt; the "only 5 species will probably ever use this" restriction isn't great 10:11:48 maybe something like an hp cost, dunno 10:12:13 does it need a drawback? It's so expensive... 10:12:25 well it's kind of in keeping with e.g. Malign Gateway 10:12:32 neither of those need it really, no 10:12:56 I like the int drain on XXX, but not so much malign 10:13:04 but at least int drain can work ok on any species! 10:13:53 perhaps sickness is more livable than I'm giving credit, but "rest even more" isn't the best cost 10:15:12 -!- lessens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:08 XXX is at least a spell that's completely out of control if you spam it 10:16:23 yeah 10:16:23 so it makes some kind of sense to limit it 10:16:42 malign gateway . . . honestly it seems like the penalty is only there for flavor reasons 10:16:44 malign is already so rarely a wise xp investment, and it's the same for haunt 10:16:54 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:09 I know MPA says malign is "the best designed summon" (he's wrong), so maybe I'll check with him before removing it 10:17:15 he might feel it works well 10:17:26 -!- tealeaves has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:21:54 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 10:24:45 -!- emikaela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:25:02 From a balance standpoint, MM deserves the int penalty more, not that I recommend it 10:25:56 lasty i saw you dared to take a moderation action on tavenr 10:26:00 and they made an entire thread about it 10:26:15 for deleting not a post, but a part of a post 10:26:17 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:22 thats wonderful i have to say 10:26:44 imagine if you deleted an entire post 10:29:50 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:31:03 heh, yup 10:31:48 I think I handled that pretty well, tho I was disappointed that and into went back to deleted the accurate-if-insulting posts by MarvinPA and duvessa. 10:34:04 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:59 why is it not actionable to publicly call out moderators 10:38:03 i guess because CYC 10:38:13 but still youre literally donating your time 10:38:21 to tend to this cesspool 10:40:14 -!- Xenobreeder has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:48 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:45:03 -!- Molotove has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:09 Honestly I think it's important that people are able to call out moderators -- I think that people with power need to be accountable to the people over whom they have power, or else power quickly becomes degenerate. That said, I think that the main four people complaining in that thread are huge wastes of everyone's time and that the tavern would absolutely be better without them. 10:49:55 yeah i see what you mean 10:51:15 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:37 i mean its not really possible for you to be completely fair 10:51:41 if they've earned your contempt 10:51:50 its hard to be impartial in the decisions 10:51:52 yeah 10:51:54 absolutely 10:54:45 i mean it's not a very good situation 10:54:45 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:01 a lot of people do not post there just because it's like that 10:55:10 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:11 -!- sinusoidal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:56:38 yeah 10:56:45 I feel like we've lost a lot of good posters 10:56:57 you have to have a personality like minmay's who just doesn't give a fuck about anything 10:57:00 to actually tolerate posting there 10:57:01 yeah 10:57:04 exactly 10:57:10 -!- Molotove1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:06 I don't really know what to do about it. I don't feel like the role I'm in is one where I'm allowed to make sweeping decisions about what sorts of posters we'd be better off without, but I do feel strongly that the tavern will be a pretty useless place until a few posters stop posting (or at least posting so much) 10:58:46 and probably still a hostile place to everyone who isn't into "boys-will-be-boys" until we get a lot more strict about a lot of things. 11:00:11 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:12 i mean the devwiki references tavern 11:00:19 as a positive place to discuss features 11:00:25 so i have to assume it was actually productive at some point 11:00:39 I feel like I've seen it be more productive at times 11:00:50 though minmay insists that's it's always been terrible 11:00:55 (IIRC) 11:02:37 -!- sanka has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:03:33 I think there's a process to prevent absurdly OOD player ghosts from placing. Anyone know the details offhand? 11:03:36 ??ghost 11:03:36 ghost[1/4]: Ghosts get damage, hitpoints, resistances, speed (not move delay), and spells very closely based on the former adventurer. All player ghosts are immune to poison, asphyxiation, torment, and negative energy. 11:03:39 ??ghost[2 11:03:39 ghost[2/4]: Ghosts don't follow you down/upstairs. They are doomed to forever haunt the level. Ghosts don't appear on D:1, D:2, or the Temple. 11:10:48 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:31 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:25:44 -!- Gorgo_1 has quit [Client Quit] 11:25:58 -!- Gorgo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:26:20 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 11:27:12 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:24 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:55 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:34:44 !lg * ikiller~~stormcaller s=killer 11:34:45 36 games for * (ikiller~~stormcaller): 29x a salamander stormcaller, 7x a fire vortex 11:34:57 !lg * ikiller~~stormcaller s=ktyp 11:34:57 36 games for * (ikiller~~stormcaller): 11x mon, 11x beam, 7x cloud, 7x burning 11:38:07 @?? salamander stormcaller 11:38:07 salamander stormcaller (05N) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 57-85 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 1004(fire:11-21) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 898 | Sp: conjure flame (42d1), sticky flame range (3d5), chant fire storm | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 11:38:29 is that melee, fire storm, cloud, napalm 11:38:48 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:22 the initial damage from sticky flame probably counts as beam too 11:40:39 I think so, yes 11:41:07 but the mon one also includes melee from 7 fire vortexes 11:41:22 It's amazing how often people get killed by the fire vortexes 11:41:50 @?? fire vortex 11:41:50 fire vortex (05v) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 23-36 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 004(pure fire:15-24) | 11non-living, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 12cold | XP: 283 | Sz: Large | Int: brainless. 11:41:57 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42:16 i guess they can hit fairly hard if you lack rf and get hit by multiple ones 11:42:40 yeah, and the people who have to deal with them did just get firestormed and take cloud damage 11:42:49 so they're probably not at extremely high health 11:47:49 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:52:51 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:53:18 -!- GauHelldragon has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:53 -!- zvd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:59:27 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:27 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Changing host] 11:59:27 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:26 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:29 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:15 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:20 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:55 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 12:07:12 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:48 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:14:29 removing int drain from malign gateway sounds fine to me 12:14:29 MarvinPA: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:15:17 !tell chequers i'm pretty sure that change is already in the corrosion commit 12:15:17 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let chequers know. 12:16:14 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:44 yeah, i was playing earlier and it did display -4 12:17:49 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:22:17 -!- Mekanik has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:22:52 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:31:04 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:32:09 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 12:32:44 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:48:06 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:49:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:50:25 -!- Calico_D has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:17 -!- Deama is now known as Calico_D 12:51:33 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:51:48 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:49 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:55:16 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:47 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 12:56:40 -!- ohyou has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:57:09 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59:46 -!- Calico_D has quit [] 13:00:42 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:20 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:09:16 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:10:44 -!- Gorgo_1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:12:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:51 -!- desdinova has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:21 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 13:17:22 -!- Tony__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:03 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:20 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1435-geafbe2f (34) 13:25:54 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [] 13:26:17 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:41 -!- DDFig has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:02 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:04 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Client Quit] 13:31:24 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:00 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:35:00 it looks like fire vortices and lurking horrors give xp if you kill them, but not if they explode on you 13:35:03 that seems bad 13:35:15 fire vortices explode? 13:35:21 i thought they just bump on things and wander off 13:35:27 they die when they attack 13:35:30 huh 13:35:56 I'm mainly talking about vault-placed fire vortices here (which are everywhere for some reason) since fire storm ones don't give xp at all anymore I'm pretty sure 13:35:59 minmay: you brought that up once before -- did that never get addressed? 13:36:17 I brought it up for fire vortices but not lurking horrors 13:36:21 Seems bugworthy to me 13:36:23 it probably happens for giant spores too 13:36:30 but those give 1 xp 13:36:43 my crawl is out of date by a little bit, let me check 13:37:29 fire vortices probably shouldn't be worth xp ever since it's really a butterfly with more hp 13:37:47 yeah 13:37:52 it's not actually a challenge to kill it 13:38:07 and i never see vaults using them as anything other than decoration 13:38:13 or dangerous either, barring unusual external circumstances 13:39:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:40:03 although, to be perfectly honest, I'm just grasping desperately at anything that might remove some xp from crawl, because god damn crawl has way too much xp 13:40:13 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:37 <|amethyst> we could go back to capping XP 13:41:05 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41:37 <|amethyst> though I guess it's rare that that actually matters 13:42:29 while you're at it aren't skill points a remnant from the times of xp pool 13:42:43 <|amethyst> kvaak: ? 13:42:50 <|amethyst> kvaak: skill points as opposed to what? 13:42:55 decreasing xp gained 13:43:07 <|amethyst> so as you train skills you don't gain levels? 13:43:56 <|amethyst> oh, you mean the rising skill point cost 13:44:22 yes 13:44:51 Which chunk of the game are we thinking has too much XP? It wouldn't be too hard to adjust the XP formula to decrease XP in that chunk, as long as it's a broad chunk. 13:45:03 xp cap only changed xp for what, some uniques, oof, alich? 13:45:13 <|amethyst> I was thinking it was more 13:45:27 <|amethyst> but yeah, not much was actually affected 13:45:44 @??ancient lich 13:45:45 ancient lich (16L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 27 | HP: 92-129 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 8515 | Sp: (random) | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 13:45:48 @??orb of fire 13:45:48 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 8519 | Sp: b.fire (3d40) [06!sil], fireball (3d43) [06!sil], malmutate [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: human. 13:45:50 scratch that 13:45:51 depths supposedly has ludicrous amounts of exp 13:46:05 i don't really know since i haven't cleared it since forever and all my chars are easily capable of clearing zot 13:46:06 It's true, and it does 13:46:12 !lg . x=avg(xl) won urune=3 13:46:13 75 games for kvaak (won urune=3): avg(xl)=24.07 13:46:30 !log 13:46:31 2347. DrKe, XL24 VpAs, T:73869: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/DrKe/morgue-DrKe-20150626-172926.txt 13:46:40 so basically just hellpan lords got more xp I think, which isn't really significant 13:46:46 yet somehow i still managed to grab 24xls worth of exp along the way 13:46:58 so wherever the exp is coming from it's not just depths 13:47:13 -!- FiftyNine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:16 depths does hae a lot of xp, but what bothers me more is the amount of xp in e.g. lair 13:47:28 kvaak: do you have a sense of what you consider to be a reasonable XL to take on zot? 13:47:40 65855 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 21 in Long Blades 13:47:40 67431 | Depths:3 | Reached skill level 22 in Long Blades 13:47:40 69403 | Depths:4 | Reached skill level 23 in Long Blades 13:47:40 70344 | Depths:5 | Reached skill level 24 in Long Blades 13:47:44 an elephant pack gives a couple thousand xp 13:47:48 depths has about 1 level of long blades per level 13:47:53 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:00 It's true that it's really easy to go from "just barely adequate" to "total badass" with the XP in Lair alone 13:48:19 the fact lair has like three dangerous enemies doesn't particularly help 13:48:42 and by dangerous i mean "not completely trivial" 13:49:05 !lm . br.enter=zot x=avg(xl) lg:ktyp=winning lg:urune=3 13:49:08 75 milestones for kvaak (br.enter=zot lg:ktyp=winning lg:urune=3): avg(xl)=22.28 13:49:27 that sounds about right, I skip zot too but oofs, elec golems etc give insane amounts of exp 13:49:47 s/skip/dive 13:50:25 I mean it depends on goals, if you want level 9 spells to be not useless in 3-rune games then the current amount of xp is fine or actually too low, but the amount you get in lair and even late D feels very disproportionate to early D 13:50:55 anyway as for the right xl for handling zot it's whatever it takes to get 3 runes 13:50:59 lair should probably have less so that it transitions better into orc 13:51:14 I am pretty sure there is more xp now than there was when skill costs were changed to get rid of the level 14 breakpoint 13:51:24 I do usually clear elf which is completely optional though 13:51:25 (but I do not have the data to back that up) 13:51:55 slime probably has considerably less than vaults though 13:52:16 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:52:38 you mean slime vs vaults as a whole or slime vs vaults:5 13:52:42 i mean vaults has more in either case 13:52:48 but just to clarify 13:53:01 all of vaults 13:53:12 the typical 3-runer is still 2xS and v1-5, isn't it 13:53:15 <|amethyst> ??objstat 13:53:15 objstat[1/3]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a build of crawl with EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L=-DDEBUG_STATISTICS in your make command (or full debug with "make debug") to generate item/monsters statistics. See crawl -help for the argument details. 13:53:18 <|amethyst> ??objstat[2] 13:53:18 objstat[2/3]: Latest statistics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing , See the README for details: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1D5mFqVi8ghz_nzvVmDUc3unx8VanVBWfgvZ8xCHaiJo/edit?usp=sharing 13:53:22 I don't enter vaults at all unless I'm a mummy without rcorr 13:53:34 i do v1-4 13:54:02 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:07 kvaak: because vaults is less fun, slower, or more dangerous? 13:54:19 it's all of those 13:54:27 I mean, I do early elf because I like it 13:54:38 it's dangerous but rewarding 13:54:43 zot and v:5 are some of the last levels you do in the game, and for many characters it is better to dive zot even with it having the densest xp in the game 13:54:56 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:55:22 they also haven't increased in xp much at all 13:55:23 vaults has lots of boring chaff and some dangerous things and v5 is just nasty in its unpredictability 13:55:28 <|amethyst> Lair is over 3-4x Orc according to objstat 13:56:06 slime is 5 floors of hopefully not too many acid blobs and shining eyes and finally TRJ 13:57:06 I don't know how current lair compares to 10-level lair for xp, it probably has less than 100-elephants-on-every-level lair, but with early skill levels easier to get, and portal vaults... 13:57:17 elf and slime just feel like a tighter package compared to vaults which sorts of drags on 13:57:31 <|amethyst> hm, Snake is way higher than the other S branches 13:57:33 and v5 which imo is not worth entering most of the time 13:57:35 <|amethyst> comparable to Slime in XP 13:57:53 <|amethyst> (and more $-heavy than Slime) 13:58:00 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:07 <|amethyst> (for $ = "end of branch", not "gold") 13:58:15 |amethyst: not surprising. It has so many bands of high-XP snakes 13:58:45 @?? greater naga 13:58:45 greater naga (13N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 15 | HP: 66-99 | AC/EV: 8/9 | Dam: 27, 703(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140), 03poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 1903 | Sp: spit poison (d22) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other | Sz: Large | Int: human. 13:58:49 @?? merfolk impaler 13:58:49 merfolk impaler (08m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%; atk: 60%) | HD: 12 | HP: 69-88 | AC/EV: 3/18 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 1079 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 13:58:58 Nearly 2x as much xp 13:58:59 @?? naga warrior 13:58:59 naga warrior (02N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 10 | HP: 95-106 | AC/EV: 6/9 | Dam: 28, 603(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 03poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 977 | Sp: spit poison (d16) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Large | Int: human. 13:59:04 @?? merfolk aquamancer 13:59:04 <|amethyst> V:5 is more than slime (by a lot), and V as a whole is more than slime plus your two S branches 13:59:04 merfolk aquamancer (03m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 14 | HP: 50-75 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 914 | Sp: primal wave (3d20), steam ball (3d18), throw icicle (3d23), blink [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 13:59:11 i'm fairly sure naga warriors are much, much more common than mf impalers 13:59:14 @?? merfolk javelineer 13:59:14 merfolk javelineer (16m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 67-84 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Dam: 17 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, master archer, amphibious | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 1125 | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 13:59:38 None of the scary monsters in shoals are worth nearly as much as a greater naga 13:59:42 @?? naga sharpshooter 13:59:42 naga sharpshooter (15N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 9 | HP: 61-81 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 503(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 03poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 830 | Sp: spit poison (d14) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], portal projectile | Sz: Large | Int: human. 13:59:48 wow, that's really low 13:59:49 a naga warrior is generally a boring meatshield that refuses to die, every mf impaler is a dangerous encounter on its own 14:00:12 Sharpshooters need to be worth more than that; they're absurd. 14:00:18 @?? shock serpent 14:00:19 shock serpent (12S) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 41-69 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 2011(elec:10-14) | cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 11elec+++ | XP: 825 | Sp: b.electrical (3d13) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 14:00:28 Them too, probably 14:00:35 <|amethyst> 14 NaWa in Snake, 6 MfJv in Shoals 14:00:44 I guess part of it is that naga are beefy and have hp 14:00:48 which influences exp 14:01:06 <|amethyst> 13.7 NaSs 14:02:38 honestly, NaSs tends to be a bigger threat to me than a greater naga on the majority of my characters 14:02:42 naga sharpshooter xp doesnt seem low to me, its way less dangerous than like, a centaur warrior 14:02:49 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=lair recent x=avg(xl) 14:02:53 91835 milestones for * (br.enter=lair recent): avg(xl)=10.83 14:02:54 @?? centaur warrior 14:02:54 centaur warrior (08c) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 44-68 | AC/EV: 4/8 | Dam: 16 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, archer | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 921 | Sz: Large | Int: human. 14:03:15 -!- seriallo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:16 and you can actually see these in pre-lair D 14:03:16 minmay: it's only less dangerous if you can walk away. Fighting one it generally much worse. 14:03:27 *is 14:03:47 why? it takes a bit longer to kill but it also does less damage 14:03:54 also, it's a naga 14:03:55 fighting a ss is a lot easier in that it won't murder you while you lure it around a corner 14:03:56 so you CAN walk away 14:04:11 Maybe I'm very unlucky, but they always do a ton of damage to me, and they never seem to put away their high-damage weapons 14:04:19 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:04:36 -!- Voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:36 My characters that tab through centaur warriors are often brought up short by naga sharpshooters. 14:04:43 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:05:03 anyway, not a dev and all that, but I do wonder if anyone would mind losing the first couple levels of lair again... 14:06:19 <|amethyst> !lm * recent br.end=lair x=avg(xl) 14:06:21 54001 milestones for * (recent br.end=lair): avg(xl)=13.72 14:06:22 -!- seriallos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:27 I suppose a naga sharpshooter does more damage if you have high EV/SH 14:07:17 <|amethyst> that would put people about one level lower at Lair:$ 14:07:21 <|amethyst> s/level/XL/ 14:07:34 <|amethyst> first two levels of lair are about 10k XP 14:07:50 <|amethyst> which is a little less than level 12 to 13 14:09:21 also helps with item creep 14:09:48 |amethyst: does that include the loss of portal vaults? 14:12:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:21 <|amethyst> no, not sure how to calculate that 14:13:51 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=icecv s=oplace 14:13:51 91850 milestones for * (br.enter=icecv): 8444x Lair:1, 7502x Lair:2, 6689x Lair:3, 6457x D:11, 5639x Lair:4, 5168x Lair:5, 4763x Lair:6, 4476x D:12, 4176x Lair:7, 3553x Orc:1, 3500x Orc:2, 3451x Lair:8, 3206x Orc:3, 3177x D:13, 2875x Orc:4, 2416x D:14, 1789x D:15, 884x Elf:1, 846x Elf:2, 816x D:16, 707x Elf:3, 521x IceCv, 495x Swamp:1, 493x D:17, 461x Swamp:2, 459x D:18, 453x Spider:1, 440x Spider... 14:14:11 25% of the XP from ice+volcano+labyrinth? 14:14:25 I guess XP from labyrinth is pretty trivial 14:14:26 <|amethyst> not really 14:14:45 ah, right, because they don't just place in Lair 14:14:47 ofc 14:14:50 <|amethyst> well 14:15:00 <|amethyst> I was thinking "by the end of lair", so that's not the problem 14:15:07 <|amethyst> but I think it would be more like losing the Lair:7 + Lair:8 numbers 14:15:12 <|amethyst> not the Lair:1 + Lair:2 numbers 14:15:34 Does it become more likely to place as you get deeper? I thought it was a flat chance for every level it could place on 14:16:01 <|amethyst> the reason 3+4 is lower than 1+2 is that you're likely to die first, or to have encountered that portal vault earlier 14:16:14 <|amethyst> so new Lair:1 should have the same probability as old Lair:1 14:16:47 <|amethyst> "should" in the sense of "I think this is probably what would happen", not actually "should" 14:17:15 <|amethyst> except that new Lair:1 would be more likely to kill you, so there's that 14:17:36 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:18:26 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=icecv oplace=d s=oplace 14:18:32 20577 milestones for * (br.enter=icecv oplace=d): 6457x D:11, 4476x D:12, 3177x D:13, 2416x D:14, 1789x D:15, 816x D:16, 493x D:17, 459x D:18, 382x D:19, 105x D:20, 3x D:25, D:21, D:23, D:26, D:27 14:18:43 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=icecv oplace=lair s=oplace 14:18:45 45832 milestones for * (br.enter=icecv oplace=lair): 8444x Lair:1, 7502x Lair:2, 6689x Lair:3, 5639x Lair:4, 5168x Lair:5, 4763x Lair:6, 4176x Lair:7, 3451x Lair:8 14:18:55 -!- mrmyers has left ##crawl-dev 14:18:55 Lasty_: they also don't place more than once 14:19:14 <|amethyst> .echo $(/ 45832.0 (+ 4176 3451)) 14:19:14 6.00917792054543 14:19:25 <|amethyst> .echo $(/ (+ 4176 3451) 45832.0) 14:19:25 0.16641211380694712 14:19:40 anyway nobody bothered to do this when adding those portal vaults or changing the xp in them so probably it is ok to not bother to do this when slightly reducing them either 14:19:46 <|amethyst> so I guess about 1/6 of an icecv + volcano 14:20:09 <|amethyst> which would be another 2000 or so XP 14:20:19 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:33 <|amethyst> hm 14:20:40 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=volcano oplace=lair s=oplace 14:20:42 38951 milestones for * (br.enter=volcano oplace=lair): 6761x Lair:1, 6093x Lair:2, 5463x Lair:3, 4817x Lair:4, 4458x Lair:5, 4065x Lair:6, 3873x Lair:7, 3421x Lair:8 14:20:43 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=volcano oplace=d s=oplace 14:20:44 No milestones for * (br.enter=volcano oplace=d). 14:21:00 <|amethyst> .echo $(/ (+ 3421 3873) 38951.0) 14:21:01 0.1872609175630921 14:21:12 <|amethyst> slightly more of a volcano, but that's not much XP anyway 14:21:36 <|amethyst> hm 14:21:40 <|amethyst> probably less than that actually 14:21:46 <|amethyst> for icecv 14:22:30 <|amethyst> since these numbers are for icecv in general, and in Lair you only get the easy versions 14:23:01 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:19 there are also the times where a portal vault is never cleared, whereas an uncleared lair level just gets cleared later in a normal game 14:24:15 <|amethyst> !lg * won 14:24:15 31054. Train the Warrior (L27 DsVM of Fedhas), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-06-26 17:41:18, with 1522505 points after 91799 turns and 13:53:15. 14:24:17 <|amethyst> !lg * won -log 14:24:18 31054. Train, XL27 DsVM, T:91799: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Train/morgue-Train-20150626-174118.txt 14:24:28 <|amethyst> oh hm 14:25:04 <|amethyst> dump_order += kills_by_place would be useful for doing a more thorough analysis, but that's not on by default 14:25:04 -!- seriallo_ has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:28:22 -!- desdinova has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:31 -!- Wendol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:30:31 -!- Stereographer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:31:01 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:41 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:39 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:13 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:43:06 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:43:12 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:43:49 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:51 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:39 -!- desdinova has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:40 -!- Fusha has quit [] 14:50:21 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:51:53 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:52:50 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 17:36:32 simmarine: my blurb or the player outcry? 17:36:41 nothing, ignore me! 17:37:00 -!- bmfx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:57 dpeg: is that the naked truth? 17:38:08 wheals: bare naked! 17:39:02 I find it funny that nobody of the complainers suggested to move the singularity effect from a spell to a consumable... that'd be the first idea I'd contemplate should I mourn the loss of a spell. 17:39:56 potion of singularity 17:40:28 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:51 simmarine: well, more a one-off evokable like the mirror ... but I am not floating that idea :) 17:42:08 potion of wodka -- it causes a major singularity effect 17:47:25 stone of neutronium? 17:49:09 something like that... but it wouldn't be a good idea: with a really rare consumable like this, you cannot experiment, so you have to rely on outside information (in contrast to the mirror, say, where it's quite clear how it'll work from the description) 17:54:11 -!- CacoS has quit [] 17:58:24 -!- quik has quit [Quit: I can hardly remember how I built my bankroll, but I can't stop thinking about the way I lost it] 17:59:52 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:00:13 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:40 -!- boobii has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:06:28 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:05 -!- PsyMar has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:03 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:05 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:25 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 18:19:15 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:41 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:15 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 18:24:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:33:28 -!- FiftyNine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:36:10 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:38:47 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:49:14 -!- NarcissusIII has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:20 uh guys 18:49:31 are ghost moths supposed to be able to drain 29 mana in one turn 18:49:37 because that seems like it's too high 18:50:30 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 58-88 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:47-84) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1695 | Sp: draining gaze [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: brainless. 18:50:30 <|amethyst> %??ghost moth 18:51:13 I thought draining gaze was supposed to be 5-17 but lately I've been losing between 17 and 30 mana every time I get drained 18:51:56 <|amethyst> .echo $(/ (* 13 12) 8) 18:51:56 19 18:52:06 <|amethyst> should be a max of 19 per gaze 18:52:08 like it's making it actually impossible to do zot because as soon as a GM sees me I lose all my mana 18:52:11 <|amethyst> but it can do that twice in a turn 18:52:15 <|amethyst> err 18:52:18 <|amethyst> twice in a player turn 18:52:24 dear god why 18:52:25 <|amethyst> not every turn 18:52:28 <|amethyst> it's speed 12 18:52:56 why though, I swear it used to be a lot lower 18:53:03 this is fucking awful 18:53:34 god damn 18:53:38 <|amethyst> hm 18:53:56 like I have 50 mana and I lose it all within 2 turns of a ghost moth seeing me 18:54:01 that's so fucking dumb 18:54:20 because it's irresistible and the only way to avoid it is by going invis 18:54:42 but they can drain almost all your mana the first turn they see you anyway because they're faster than you 18:54:57 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:39 -!- Bcadren has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:24 -!- Elynae has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:27 dude, ghost moths are annoying, but they pretty much only show up in the spider branch end 18:58:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:58:57 and it's very rare that you can't find a way to obviate them by the time you really need to do it 19:00:46 NarcissusIII: you're overstating it significantly. I often end up killing ghost moths with conjurations, because they just don't drain your magic that fast. 3-4 turns, maybe. 19:00:46 Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:01:51 also: fog 19:02:19 <|amethyst> !lm narcissusiii 19:02:19 2468. [2015-06-26 22:21:28] NarcissusIII the Arsonist (L10 SaFE of Vehumet) left the Lair of Beasts on turn 13603. (Lair:1) 19:02:21 <|amethyst> !lm narcissusiii -log 19:02:22 NarcissusIII, XL11 SaFE, T:15292: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/NarcissusIII/morgue-NarcissusIII-20150626-223028.txt 19:02:34 <|amethyst> !lm narcissusiii !experimental -log 19:02:35 NarcissusIII, XL26 DDEE, T:87128 (milestone) has no matching game 19:03:21 <|amethyst> are you in statue form? 19:03:35 oh, that could do it 19:03:56 also, someone has to say it: if a monster does not occasionally fuck things up, it's a dud 19:04:35 heh 19:05:14 i actually think ghost moths are a good monster 19:05:31 boggarts too 19:05:40 oh, I agree 19:05:47 dpeg_: true story 19:06:12 i mean, just because i hate getting murdered doesn't mean they aren't a good thing to have 19:06:13 I'm amazed at how often "I had a hard time and nearly died!" is used as an excuse to ask for things to be made easier 19:06:45 this is also why i like emperor scorpions 19:06:58 i mean, they don't have any special tactics per se 19:07:09 indeed... almost died is such a good state 19:07:59 wossname....the uh.... 19:08:04 flayed ghosts! 19:08:07 they are also great 19:09:46 honestly, the only thing i ever used to complain about was killer bees showing up on d:4 or so 19:09:58 I love it when killer bees show up early 19:09:59 but it seems like they got moved down 19:10:04 but then, I did also make shrikes 19:10:07 lol 19:10:11 ProzacElf: but even so: if you survive, the beginning of a great game 19:10:17 oh, certainly 19:10:32 and you always felt like you were a badass if you did live 19:10:42 and got about 3-4 xl out of it 19:11:00 yeah 19:11:07 I think Crawl has gotten some really cool new monsters, the persistent complaints be damned. (It's a triviality that not every new monster/mechanic/gimmick can be gold, but we would never improve things if we didn't start somewhere.) 19:11:27 ProzacElf: a good opportunity for flashy stuff like lignification, too 19:11:33 lol 19:11:51 dpeg_: I love lignification too 19:12:07 it's so wonderfully double-edged 19:12:10 i started a KoAr a couple days ago, and i got more mileage out of lignification than i had out of the rest of the time since its introduction 19:12:13 but so strong 19:12:53 it's really great for the low-hp classes if you find a couple of them early 19:12:58 (thanks ossuary) 19:13:01 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:13:09 er...species, not classes 19:13:14 also the low AC species 19:14:22 !lm . 19:14:23 No milestones for dpeg_. 19:14:28 !lm dpeg 19:14:28 11312. [2015-06-25 10:28:02] dpeg the Ruinous Farmer (L27 MuNe of Gozag) reached level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients on turn 204021. (Tomb:3) 19:14:52 should get that mummy going 19:15:11 lol 19:15:34 no offense dpeg, but what's the point of gozag? 19:16:01 he just seems like the god you take to change away from him 19:16:35 unless his wrath got worse 19:20:07 ProzacElf: if the god gives early benefits, then what's the problem? 19:20:16 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:20 I want to use that mummy to bribe hells (more than one, which I did before) 19:20:30 oh, i wasn't saying it was a problem 19:20:58 you can have noticeably better gear by D:8-10, the potions help in a pinch, and bribe allows to tackle some branches under softer conditions 19:21:21 i guess i feel like he should have some more punishing wrath 19:21:24 I feel there is something amiss... the gold distraction is strong, but perhaps it could be more flashy? 19:21:45 oh, we had the Midas thing... 19:21:52 but if the idea is that he helps you early and it's not too big a pain to get rid of him 19:22:02 then i'm just viewing it wrong 19:22:31 I would like it if Gozag helped you get really good endgame gear (that's what players always want out of gods :) 19:22:38 lol 19:22:47 not sure how... perhaps a trove and players can determine type? 19:22:56 that would be cool 19:23:08 <|amethyst> dpeg_: I still say give Gozag igni's artefactise :) 19:23:29 i kind of like him as is, but i think that most players don't ever take gozag 19:23:41 |amethyst: I was always against it because I think (still do!) that artefactise can carry its own god... but if it doesn't, we could slap that on Gozzy, true 19:23:58 <|amethyst> yeah, I just want to see the mechanic :) 19:24:01 !lg dpeg won g=gozag 19:24:01 Unknown field: gozag 19:24:13 is igni still on one of the servers? 19:24:18 <|amethyst> what's g= anyway? 19:24:18 |amethyst: it would fit with the choices in potions and shops 19:24:22 god 19:24:26 !isonline @allofthem 19:24:27 6 minutes, 9 seconds since last activity (@allofthem) 19:24:35 !lm allofthem x=src 19:24:36 192167. [2015-06-26 23:18:17] [src=cdo] ohyou the Basher (L9 OgHu) killed Crazy Yiuf on turn 10823. (D:7) 19:24:39 !lm allofthem x=src -2 19:24:39 192166/192167. [2015-06-26 23:17:00] [src=cdo] ohyou the Basher (L9 OgHu) killed Edmund on turn 10238. (D:6) 19:24:44 !lm allofthem x=src -3 19:24:45 192165/192167. [2015-06-26 23:03:37] [src=cdo] ohyou the Fighter (L8 OgHu) killed Menkaure on turn 7466. (D:4) 19:24:54 <|amethyst> I mean, from Sequell's response it's apparently not 'god', but it does mean something 19:24:57 <|amethyst> !kw g 19:24:58 Keyword: g => gozag 19:25:01 <|amethyst> oh 19:25:05 <|amethyst> :) 19:25:09 <|amethyst> !lg dpeg won g 19:25:10 7. dpeg the Impregnable (L27 FoEE of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-06-09 16:05:43, with 1558821 points after 81126 turns and 4:44:11. 19:25:13 thx! 19:25:24 oh, I have one of these new Tomb:3 layouts... cool 19:25:48 <|amethyst> "god=gozag" is the canonical way, but apparently the abbrev was decided to be "g" rather than "goz" or "gys" or whatever 19:25:50 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 19:25:58 <|amethyst> !kw f 19:25:58 No keyword 'f' 19:26:01 <|amethyst> !kw a 19:26:02 No keyword 'a' 19:26:05 <|amethyst> !kw y 19:26:05 strange :) 19:26:06 No keyword 'y' 19:26:14 <|amethyst> !kw 1 19:26:15 Built-in: 1 => 1 19:28:43 speaking of monsters nearly killing people 19:28:48 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-1436-g4273e01: Increase salamander stormcaller firestorm damage and decrease spawn rate 10(72 seconds ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4273e01ba19d 19:28:59 the only way! 19:29:27 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:41 Lasty: I think it is a really cool concept to have monsters show off killer spells 19:30:41 Ditto. I like the idea of delay -> major spell. I think it works a little better on the entropy weavers, but this might help the stormcallers. I'm not sure. 19:30:58 I think there will still be those who don't much care for the 19:30:59 m 19:31:30 we will see... like we said, the only way to know is by trying new ideas (and not complaining about variety, but rather be willing to pedal back and retract if something doesn't quite work out) 19:31:43 yep! 19:31:45 agreed 19:32:10 -!- Tpain is now known as zhaorenw 19:33:00 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:34:31 Is there a way to !lg for spells known? 19:34:44 no 19:35:20 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:34 -!- captainkraft has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:17 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:38:46 <|amethyst> -log 19:38:59 <|amethyst> but there's no way to query by spell or anything like that 19:39:21 <|amethyst> !lg * d:3 xl>15 -log 19:39:23 19. Elynae, XL24 MiBe, T:38041: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Elynae/morgue-Elynae-20150626-225319.txt 19:39:36 <|amethyst> well, no spells there obviously 19:39:41 <|amethyst> !lg * cj d:3 xl>15 -log 19:39:41 No games for * (cj d:3 xl>15). 19:39:45 <|amethyst> !lg * fe d:3 xl>15 -log 19:39:45 fe is ambiguous: may be species or class. Use fe-- (Felid) or --fe (Fire Elementalist) to disambiguate 19:39:49 <|amethyst> !lg * --fe d:3 xl>15 -log 19:39:50 2. modargo, XL27 DsFE, T:135825: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/modargo/morgue-modargo-20141227-231842.txt 19:40:16 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1437-g19c608a: Remove a Zot vault 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 36-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19c608af41a9 19:40:16 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1438-gf1e1bf3: Remove Grand Avatar 10(7 hours ago, 22 files, 15+ 355-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f1e1bf34a104 19:40:16 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-1439-gf9b49e1: Adjust some priest spell sets 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f9b49e110c1c 19:40:27 <|amethyst> !lg * d:3 killer~~modargo's 19:40:29 6. cognificent the Cudgeler (L3 MiBe of Trog), blasted by modargo's ghost (fireball) on D:3 on 2014-12-28 01:27:09, with 65 points after 1165 turns and 0:02:51. 19:40:33 <|amethyst> !lg * d:3 killer~~modargo's -2 19:40:39 5/6. poop the Skirmisher (L3 DgCr), slain by modargo's ghost on D:3 on 2008-12-09 07:38:54, with 234 points after 2086 turns and 0:06:49. 19:40:48 <|amethyst> !lg * d:3 killer~~modargo's -3 19:40:53 4/6. jdev the Footpad (L4 MuAs), slain by modargo's ghost on D:3 on 2008-05-20 23:29:43, with 206 points after 2650 turns and 0:07:02. 19:41:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:45:04 b - the +0 pair of boots of Neluutea (rF+++ rC+++ Dex-4) 19:45:18 (competing with +2 boots of running) 19:45:55 wow 19:46:11 I'd probably go boots of running, but if you need the resists... 19:46:51 I am at zero rF unless I use ring of flames... in Zot right now, so I am wearing the new ones 19:47:16 (training up Tloc, so I can abuse CBlink and rightfully campaign for nerfs afterwards) 19:47:32 haha 19:47:43 combine passage of golubria with cblink for extra abuse 19:47:51 how would you nerf cblink 19:48:03 make it semi-controlled rather than controlled? remove it? 19:48:06 perhaps like we nerfed Singularity? 19:49:14 (just joking here... but I can see demand for a follow-up nerf to removing -cTele levels) 19:52:19 joke option: remove translocations (don't) 19:52:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:08 Sounds like a plan 19:53:19 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:54:38 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:52 throw.cc:1013:12: warning: unused variable ‘victim’ [-Wunused-variable] 19:57:45 -!- GauHelldragon has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:59:52 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:00:36 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:50 -!- Zargon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:03:32 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:04:18 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:48 -!- nuthulu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:54 -!- panicbit has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 20:08:07 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 20:09:18 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:50 -!- Ryzor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:13:27 Lasty: fire vortex still gives xp 20:13:49 true 20:13:56 I'll look into it 20:14:38 are there any possibly-damaging monsters that currently don't give XP? 20:15:49 looks like M_NO_EXP_GAIN is the flag I want 20:16:11 -!- xcourier has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:19 -!- DDFig has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:18:26 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:36 03Lasty02 07* 0.17-a0-1440-g2c35cbc: Make a few more monsters not give XP (minmay) 10(20 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2c35cbcb6f93 20:21:18 there, minmay. Now our secret conspiracy is complete. 20:21:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:22:02 cool 20:22:54 remember when you would kill butterflies for xp 20:23:08 it never occurred to me to try 20:23:24 remember when you would kill butterflies for piety 20:23:49 that's even worse, since I'm sure they gave ~1 xp 20:24:15 remember when you would kill freed slaves for food and to stop them from stealing xp - wait you still do that 20:24:27 nm 20:24:53 killing slaves followed by cannibalism. Truly the best crawl has to offer. 20:25:17 Lasty: I have been killing slaves (freed or not) for gold :| 20:25:24 its only cannibalism if youre a human! 20:25:25 they have gold? 20:25:37 they aren't slaves if they get paid :p 20:25:44 i wouldn't be surprised if the slaves can pick up potions or something before they turn hostile 20:27:06 Lasty: I am playing Gozag all the time. 20:30:50 oh, heh 20:31:35 dpeg_: have you considered further my suggestions about bribe being an AOE effect instead of a branch effect? 20:31:41 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:42 The build is still failing. (master - 4273e01 #2884 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/68557673 20:31:42 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 20:32:20 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 20:33:00 Lasty: I am worried this loses all the good stuff, and brings effects I want to avoid (I think it is much harder to explain that higher tier monster are *more* affected with a per monster or an area effect). 20:33:23 Of course, I am pretty set in my ways. Btw, I think that Bribe could try harder to spend the remaining money. 20:33:52 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:24 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:41:33 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:41:42 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:45:41 hm, Zot:5 is now really easier... I am not happy about that 20:46:07 (also, so much about "caster nerfs") 20:47:04 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:32 easier in general or easier with gozag? 20:47:50 i haven't really played in about 9 mos, leaving aside the last week or two 20:50:21 oh, easier strictly from CBlinking 20:50:25 -!- seriallo_ has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:50:40 this matters so much: I can perfectly position against orbs or toes 20:50:48 I can beeline in general to a < 20:51:53 basically, having learned CBlink at XL 27 and pumping Tloc to 12 (using =wiz) is enough to render all tactical options moot: CBlink covers everything 20:52:16 I guess we'll do something about 'til release, in one way or another 20:53:15 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:39 yeah, other branch ends that had ctele e.g. slime are less deadly too in the same way 20:54:57 to anyone with scrolls 20:55:22 change it to scblink 20:55:31 DrKe: yes. But as always, the scrolls are at least finite. 20:55:46 So how much you have by Zot:5 is some form of skill. The spell is not. 20:55:49 i do think the spell should probably just be removed 20:56:01 -!- cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:56:09 DrKe: I am trying to avoid that conclusion right away, but it'd certainly be a solution. 20:56:24 very few people get it in 3 rune games, and all it does is defang extended by a lot 20:56:32 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:56:45 though i suppose losing it takes a lot away from tloc 20:56:52 DrKe: yes, should perhaps seen as the natural counterpart to allowing blinking on all levels anyway 20:57:22 <|amethyst> tloc needs a L9 spell now, right? :) 20:57:59 yeah, just make it cast dispersal at your destination 20:58:04 to make it worthy of being a L9 20:58:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:15 <|amethyst> is cblink as-is not worthy of L9? 20:58:29 make it make noise at your destination 20:58:36 |amethyst: I'm afraid that's the same spiral as we had for ToD 20:58:39 in terms of utility probably, but not in terms of theatrics 20:58:48 theatrics <3 20:59:09 <|amethyst> add a Star Trek transporter animation 20:59:13 nicolae-: that solves only half of the problem, but not hopping to staircases, for example 20:59:18 hmmmmm 20:59:25 |amethyst: beam me up, Linley! 21:00:01 anyway, we have some time to mull this over and sort it out. 21:00:02 makes an aura that grows over time. you also get an ability that lets you blink anywhere in the aura but then dispels the aura. so if you want to blink a farther distance you have to wait a turn or two. that's probably very complicated. forget i even said it! 21:00:03 nicolae-: i think it does 21:00:08 make noise, i mean 21:01:01 crate had suggested making cblink give exh 21:01:16 or work with exh, rather 21:02:09 you can only blink in a knight's move 21:02:19 I guess you can hit it until it hurts: exhaustion, stat loss, glow... but perhaps these are just symptoms, not the cure :) 21:03:09 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:11 -!- Calico_D has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:07 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:10 -!- Calico_D has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:08 can only use it once per game. solved. 21:16:15 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:34 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:35 The build was fixed. (master - f9b49e1 #2885 : Chris Campbell): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/68558526 21:16:35 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 21:21:31 I rarely learn controlled blink at level 7 as-is, let alone level 9 21:27:06 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:35:32 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:47 -!- Calico_D has quit [] 21:38:18 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:40:43 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:47:14 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:48:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:50:38 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:38 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:52:43 -!- coledot has joined ##crawl-dev 21:53:38 -!- giantbat has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:04 -!- dpeg_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:03:13 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:14 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 22:04:22 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:23 The build was fixed. (master - 2c35cbc #2886 : Corin Buchanan-Howland): https://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/68561455 22:04:23 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 22:05:29 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:48 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:16:56 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:26:34 -!- panicbit has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:41 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:49 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:38:33 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:45:26 -!- yottam has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:47:15 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:22 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:54:30 .gfmap -tv 22:54:31 329. Gerad, XL20 OpGl, T:42235 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 22:57:33 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 22:58:23 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:59:28 -!- ohyou has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:46 -!- Ironfoot has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:04:49 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:10:04 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:11:54 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:29 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1441-g89f0035: Remove the sickness effect from casting Haunt 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 1+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/89f0035fa991 23:13:29 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1442-g10bb59b: Remove the Int drain effect from Malign Gateway 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 1+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/10bb59b2e6ec 23:13:31 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:13:57 nerfing casters again, i see 23:14:35 lol 23:16:15 yeah, post-nerf haunt really didnt call for the sickness drawback 23:17:20 -!- dakonic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:18:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:21:17 -!- sinusoidal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:55 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 23:31:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:32:36 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:41:53 -!- Cacophony has quit [Quit: oh no am scare] 23:42:41 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:52:20 -!- Hamstersaurusmex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:55:11 -!- bleak_fire_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:35 You draw a card... It is the Storm. A fierce wind blows from the card. 23:57:35 _The goblin, the slave and your air elemental are blown away by the wind. 23:57:49 the air elemental being affected by wind seems like a mistake