00:01:33 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 00:10:03 -!- Cacophony has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:39 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.1/20150513174244]] 00:21:31 -!- jefus has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 00:22:53 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:23:43 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:25:27 -!- jefus has quit [Client Quit] 00:25:41 -!- jefus has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:16 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:35 -!- Brannock has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:40 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-1301-ga863c44 (34) 00:28:58 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 00:30:08 -!- jefus has quit [Client Quit] 00:32:52 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:44:31 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:59 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:51:01 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:59 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:01:46 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:10:32 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1301-ga863c44 (34) 01:13:51 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:19:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1301-ga863c44 (34) 01:53:30 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1301-ga863c44 01:54:06 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 01:56:08 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 01:57:44 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:58:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:58:47 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [] 02:04:44 -!- mnoleg69reagan42 has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:10:23 -!- stantler has joined ##crawl-dev 02:10:45 if I've been editing on a copy I got from downloading a .zip, how do I push? 02:15:54 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:19:58 you can't, you should fork and clone using git client 02:21:45 how do I anything? I can't get it to nativigate to the folder on the d: drive either since cd doesn't appear to work the same way as DOS. 02:34:41 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:37 updating my git installation, I think I might get it, IDK. Are you supposed to just edit or apply patches for mainline? 02:36:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:39:04 -!- stantler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:41:59 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 02:43:25 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:44:40 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 02:45:48 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:47:16 -!- stantler has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:33 Any guidance? 02:50:45 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1301-ga863c44 02:53:50 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:41 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:08:23 -!- dethmo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:09:23 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:10:35 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:21:36 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:22:25 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1301-ga863c44 (34) 03:25:40 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:36 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:34:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:40:25 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:19 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:45:57 vale (L26 SpEn) (Depths:5) 03:52:17 ...ok 04:00:16 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:01:31 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:40 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:24 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:20:33 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:22:02 -!- n0b0dyyoukn0w has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:26:10 -!- sgun_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:55 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:49 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 04:39:22 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:47:19 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: 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has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:49:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:50:24 -!- radinms has quit [] 11:51:44 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:51:52 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:53:57 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 11:58:03 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 11:59:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:05:39 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:38 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 12:22:16 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus "It sprouts a set of venomous tails" sounds weird, did you mean "sports"? 12:22:16 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 12:22:41 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1302-g12b1a86: Use ASSERT_RANGE. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/12b1a8641604 12:22:41 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1303-g0b13bbd: Use comma_separated_fn for mutant beast facet descs. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0b13bbdde162 12:23:01 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:55 -!- domiryuu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:07 -!- Voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:45 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 12:40:21 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev] 12:41:41 -!- fluffhead has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:25 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:46:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:49:45 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:52:47 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1304-g19d736d: Improve indentation (doh) 10(68 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/19d736db6563 12:57:32 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:28 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:01:24 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:06 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:18:13 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:17 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:22:32 -!- Smello has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:23:42 -!- Gurmil has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:24:57 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1304-g19d736d (34) 13:34:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:35:17 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:24 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:38:51 |amethyst: huh, i thought lambdas only did return type inference if they had only one statement 13:41:37 "The return type of lambda can be omitted as long as all return expressions return the same type. " i guess i don't know where i got that idea then 13:44:50 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:54 -!- Senjaii has quit [Changing host] 13:44:54 -!- Senjaii has quit [Changing host] 13:45:56 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 13:47:46 python? 13:49:07 <|amethyst> wheals: you're thinking of constexpr 13:49:23 <|amethyst> hm 13:49:28 <|amethyst> or maybe that's 11 vs 14? 13:49:48 <|amethyst> ah, yes 13:50:05 <|amethyst> in C++I guess I should fix that huh 13:50:18 oh, never mind then 13:53:47 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:08 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:30 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:35 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:31 <|amethyst> oh, btw, the (32-bit) crawl -test run under valgrind reported no warnings 13:56:42 <|amethyst> ==29448== LEAK SUMMARY: 13:56:42 <|amethyst> ==29448== definitely lost: 105 bytes in 2 blocks 13:56:42 <|amethyst> ==29448== indirectly lost: 0 bytes in 0 blocks 13:56:42 <|amethyst> ==29448== possibly lost: 0 bytes in 0 blocks 13:56:42 <|amethyst> ==29448== still reachable: 42,111 bytes in 207 blocks 13:56:54 <|amethyst> which I'm not too worried about :) 13:57:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:57:41 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1305-gd5ce758: Don't depend on a C++14 feature. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d5ce75807289 13:57:44 friendly followers will walk into hostile clouds created by other friendlies 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9759 by coledot 13:58:02 105 bytes??? i don't think that our server operators will be willing to run this program anymore! 13:58:20 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:22 fr: remove friendlies and all enslavement effects, because it's too hard to keep straight 14:00:32 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:02:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:02:33 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:02 this is mostly an AI issue 14:04:22 monsters happily stand around in dangerous clouds until they die 14:04:46 this is arguably an issue with hostile monsters in volcanoes/ice caves too 14:05:44 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:09:51 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:37 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:18:44 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:21:21 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:21:54 -!- rubinko_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:24:16 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:41 -!- reaverb is now known as Guest31351 14:25:58 -!- Guest31351 is now known as reaverb 14:27:06 -!- mnoleg69reagan42 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:31:00 -!- Smello has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:33:53 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:35 -!- BOTBrad has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:37:00 -!- melenkurio has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:37 -!- leetdood has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:38:22 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:39:18 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:48 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:35 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:27 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:57 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [] 14:59:17 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:08:25 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:30 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 15:12:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:32 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:48 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:00 |amethyst: oh yeah, I was going to use comma_separated_fn, but I got lazy. 15:18:00 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:18:07 Anyway, yeah, probably 'sports' is better 15:23:47 * Grunt separates PleasingFungus' commas. 15:23:59 gotta keep 'em separated... 15:24:10 gotta separate 'em all 15:30:24 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:06 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1306-ga73dd61: Fix stingbeast description (|amethyst) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a73dd6133645 15:32:06 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1307-g7eb7718: Nerf mbeast damage scaling (gammafunk) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7eb7718ce886 15:32:06 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1308-gaca585e: Replace a switch with a map 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aca585e96e1e 15:32:51 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:37:47 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: btw, I implemented a function that does that map_find plus default thing in _beast_facet_resists 15:40:05 sounds vaguely familiar 15:40:20 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1309-ge2e0ffc: Simplify a map lookup. 10(30 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e2e0ffc88672 15:41:02 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:43:14 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:43:32 c++14?! but I'm still learning C++11!! 15:45:09 <|amethyst> C++14 is mostly tweaks to C++11, relaxing several restrictions 15:45:18 <|amethyst> it does have a few new things, like template variables 15:45:26 we can't relax yet!!!!!!!!!!! 15:46:52 <|amethyst> oh, and "foo"s for a literal C++ string 15:49:33 -!- TMTurtle has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:51:47 -!- Senjaii is now known as Senjai`gate 15:53:10 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:54:34 -!- xcourier has quit [Quit: xcourier] 15:56:04 -!- argent0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:56:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:56:57 -!- Senjai`gate has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:59:50 wow, and alias templates exist? 16:00:22 template 16:00:23 using pauli = hermitian_matrix; // alias template 16:00:41 template // static data member template static constexpr pauli sigma1 = { { 0, 1 }, { 1, 0 } }; 16:00:49 but with newline after 'template' 16:05:46 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:24 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-7-june-2015 wordpress up 16:09:34 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:09:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.17-a0-1310-gaf4f4d6: Changelog through 0.17-a0-1308-gaca585e 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/af4f4d64aa2e 16:12:31 PleasingFungus: mutant beasts can come from box of beasts, or be placed in maps, but currently don't spawn anywhere naturally, right? 16:12:44 correct, and I really hope no one places them in maps 16:13:07 <|amethyst> bring back the lab rat vault 16:14:56 you could just mark them M_NO_EXP_GAIN but it's not terribly important, since they only appear as summons 16:16:02 there are a few different flags like that one and M_CONJURED and M_AVATAR that are probably not applied as consistently as they should be 16:16:23 if they appear not as summons, they should certainly give xp 16:16:58 -!- seriallos has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:17:13 well they're summons-only monsters would be my argument 16:17:23 <|amethyst> then they don't need the flag 16:17:36 well we should remove said flags from other summons-only monsters 16:18:42 <|amethyst> yeah, I don't see why spellforged servitor etc got the flag recently 16:18:52 <|amethyst> guardian golem makes sense since it has no attacks 16:19:12 @??guardian_golem 16:19:12 guardian golem (098) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 33-48 | AC/EV: 10/2 | 11non-living, 10doors, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: brainless. 16:19:54 well if no exp gain is synonymous with "doesn't attack", perhaps it should be renamed 16:20:08 <|amethyst> "no XP" means "this monster shouldn't give XP" 16:20:45 right, but when and why do we apply this as a flag? is it only for a monster that doesn't have an attack? 16:20:59 as I'm looking at it, that does seem to be the case 16:21:20 tentacles 16:21:26 they seem to be the only exception 16:21:42 that and I guess whatever the hell grand avatars are 16:21:44 <|amethyst> tentacles give no XP because they belong to a parent that grants XP 16:21:56 <|amethyst> grand avatar is one of those summoned-only things that doesn't need it 16:22:11 also spectral weapon 16:22:49 <|amethyst> snaplasher vine probably could give XP since they're all summoned 16:23:09 <|amethyst> (unless they don't count as summoned, haven't looked at the spell) 16:23:23 yeah it does seem to me that the flag is misleading though. it's really M_DOESNT_ATTACK_OR_IS_TENTACLE 16:24:55 it might simply be replaced with a function checking if a monster class has no attack or is a tentacle 16:25:32 <|amethyst> then merfolk avatar would be worth no XP 16:25:43 <|amethyst> and curse skull 16:26:05 no attack and no spells? 16:27:04 complicated by the fact that monsters can have spell added dynamically 16:28:15 <|amethyst> I think that would work, but what if we come up with exceptions? (e.g. someone makes a butterfly that blinks?) 16:28:40 yeah it's just a bit of a confusing flag 16:32:01 <|amethyst> I guess I take the flag to mean something like "no monster of this type is a threat independent of its creator" 16:32:05 -!- vale___ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:25 <|amethyst> it kind of makes sense for SW to have it in that case, since a spectral weapon by itself can't do anything 16:32:33 hrm, well it does help to have a rule like that 16:32:55 yeah, and grand avatars are *almost* that (we need to remove them) 16:33:06 <|amethyst> but servitor for example fires on its own schedule 16:33:30 <|amethyst> if it weren't summoned, it could keep casting after its creator is long gone 16:34:09 yeah, it's sort of a flag where you have to think about weird cases like that to make sense of it 16:34:52 <|amethyst> if it is summoned-only then it doesn't really matter one way or the other 16:34:54 M_AVATAR basically covers the truly dependent cases like battlespheres, sw 16:34:55 what do grand avatars do again 16:35:23 yet grand avatars also have M_AVATAR 16:35:40 it's sort of "monster of they type is a threat independent of its current master" or something 16:35:42 -!- CacoS has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:47 s/they/this/ 16:36:04 and s/monster/no monsters/ 16:36:10 <|amethyst> but I don't think the flag should be used for summoned-only monsters (without some other justification), if it is technically possible for a vault creator to place one 16:36:34 <|amethyst> if we want a flag to say "it is an error to make one of these that isn't summoned" we should add that separately 16:38:04 ??crosstraining 16:38:04 cross training[1/1]: 40% of the exp in any weapon skill is used to boost the cross-trained skill for free. Short <-> Long Blades, Maces <-> Axes, Axes <-> Polearms, Polearms <-> Staves, Maces <-> Staves, Sling <-> Throwing 16:40:44 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:40:58 anyways, I don't really know when to use the no exp flag, but it sounds like it's not trivial to remove it nor does it help to use it a lot more 16:41:44 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:18 -!- TMTurtle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:44:22 this reminds me of how there's a weird check for mons_is_object in awarding makhleb/tso/veh piety 16:44:51 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:45:03 I think a big thing is fire vortices from monster firestorm and the like 16:45:28 hrm, wonder if killing one of those somehow awards xp then 16:46:32 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:44 hrm, yes it does 16:53:14 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:53:54 -!- quik has quit [Quit: I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve] 16:54:52 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 16:54:54 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 16:55:47 ahahahaha 16:55:59 *parks robins* 16:56:04 INFINITE EXP BUG FOUND 16:56:22 (not a smart one given fire storm being dangerous though) 16:57:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:30 actually, it's probably not even exploitable unless you're a Mu (everyone else runs out of food and dies, vampires run out of blood, can't regen, and eventually get whittled down and also die) 16:58:03 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:48 it's pretty exploitable what with stormcallers being pathetic 17:02:43 doesn't matter though because gammafunk is wrong and it doesn't award xp 17:03:09 @??salamander stormcaller 17:03:10 salamander stormcaller (05N) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 57-85 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 1004(fire:11-21) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 898 | Sp: conjure flame (42d1), sticky flame range (3d5), chant fire storm | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 17:03:17 @??cerebov hd:11 17:03:17 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 6551 | Sp: fire storm (8d9 / 8d8) [06!sil], iron shot (3d22) [06!sil], haste [06!sil], sum.greater demon [06!sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 17:03:26 lol 8d9 17:03:29 what is even the point of that 17:04:03 minmay: yes it does award xp 17:04:08 yeah, I'm not wrong 17:04:19 perhaps player firestorm doesn't award it 17:05:57 well I just tested in in wizmode with monster fire storm 17:06:17 or is this a really recent change? 17:06:22 so did i 17:06:29 and probably gammafunk 17:07:09 with stormcaller specifically 17:07:53 yeah I tested with cere and stormcallers 17:08:08 @??fire_vortex 17:08:08 fire vortex (05v) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 23-36 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 004(pure fire:15-24) | 11non-living, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 12cold | XP: 283 | Sz: Large | Int: brainless. 17:13:46 -!- Idolo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:19 gammafunk: should monster firestorm create summoned fire vortices, or what? and with some kind of flag so that they "dissipate" instead of disappearing in a puff of smoke? 17:19:59 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:20:41 -!- ohyou has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:00 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:45 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:15 -!- Chance672 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:28:15 <|amethyst> hm 17:28:19 <|amethyst> it's not super recent 17:28:36 <|amethyst> oh wait 17:29:06 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:29:57 <|amethyst> I guess it is 17:30:06 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:09 <|amethyst> okay, this monster-summoned hydra has flags=4000000418 ench: summon (212:2147483647 N/A), abj (1:95 N/A) 17:31:17 <|amethyst> and doesn't grant XP 17:32:10 <|amethyst> this fire vortex from fire storm has: flags=4000000418 ench: confusion (0:37 N/A), summon (41:2147483647 N/A), abj (1:113 N/A) 17:32:52 <|amethyst> oh, er 17:33:04 <|amethyst> _calc_player_experience seems to have lost the checked for summoned monsters? 17:35:00 <|amethyst> oh 17:35:05 <|amethyst> if (mons_is_conjured(type)) 17:35:05 <|amethyst> return false; 17:35:24 <|amethyst> in monster::is_summoned 17:36:05 <|amethyst> that's why _calc_player_experience checked ENCH_ABJ directly 17:37:25 i noticed just now that confusing touch doesn't affect non-living monsters. is this intended, or a carry-over frmo the days when the confuse spell didn't affect them? 17:39:22 -!- crawlbro has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:41:17 <|amethyst> I'm not sure what the use case was for is_summoned returning false for conjured things 17:41:34 <|amethyst> I guess abjuration? 17:42:53 -!- Monkaria is now known as DDFig 17:43:04 <|amethyst> ah, yes 17:43:09 <|amethyst> %git c9a075c4 17:43:10 07kilobyte02 * 0.8.0-a0-488-gc9a075c: Make {fire,spatial} vortices, ball lightnings and IOOD immune to Recall/Abjuration. 10(4 years, 10 months ago, 4 files, 21+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9a075c4ffbb 17:44:27 <|amethyst> oh, no, it was that way for fire storm already 17:45:50 <|amethyst> %git 0a035731 17:45:50 07Matthew_Cline02 * 0.5-a0-1180-g0a03573: Added BEAM_CHAOS and changed chaos launchers/ammo to use that. Currently only chooses a different, random beam flavour (which undoudtedly needs to have their relative weights changed after playtesting) for each square it passes through, but in the future it might do things like bounce off walls at weird angles or animate weapons left laying on the ground. 10(7 years ago, 20 files, 527+ 249-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0a035731a014 17:46:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:48:36 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:48:48 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:13 amalloy: it's the same codepath as spore confusion (e.g. from mushrooms) 17:50:14 so that's probably why 17:50:27 I guess it's a bug? 17:50:30 right, and confuse-branded chaos weapons 17:50:34 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:42 huh 17:51:00 <|amethyst> Hm, trying to decide whether to make this mons_is_conjured(victim->type) && victim->has_ench(ENCH_ABJ) or just mons_is_conjured(victim->type) 17:51:04 PleasingFungus: if it is a bug, and you fix it, it'll become possible to confuse orbs of fire i think, although quite unlikely 17:51:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:51:47 <|amethyst> I guess the latter is closest to the old behaviour, and no one should be vault-placing fire vortices (and if they do I guess they shouldn't be worth XP) 17:51:55 <|amethyst> ??orb of fire 17:51:55 orb of fire[1/2]: Lots of health, immune to elemental (except for cold, which it only resists) and necromantic attacks, insane damage fire spells (fireball maxes at 129) and a mutating spell. Never underestimate their power, lest you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Permanently hasted! 17:51:58 <|amethyst> @??orb of fire 17:51:58 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, fly, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 8519 | Sp: b.fire (3d40) [06!sil], fireball (3d43) [06!sil], malmutate [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: human. 17:52:16 |amethyst: afaict, confusing touch checks hd rather than mr 17:52:23 <|amethyst> yeah 17:52:24 vault-placed fire vortices are everywhere 17:52:39 <|amethyst> I guess I'll keep it as just conjured then 17:52:42 and have always given xp which is insane 17:52:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:06 <|amethyst> oh 17:53:09 <|amethyst> hmn 17:53:19 let a fire vortex hit you in a volcano or whatever? you lost 300 xp 17:54:17 <|amethyst> hmm 17:54:27 <|amethyst> I guess maybe this should be under mons_class_gives_xp then 17:54:33 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:36 |amethyst: that function doesn't need the check 17:56:46 because it uses the result from mons_gives_xp 17:57:02 it's a static function that was essentially doing an additional check 17:57:11 <|amethyst> which function doesn't need the check? 17:57:18 the static one you mention 17:57:26 _calc_player_experience 17:57:47 <|amethyst> right, I'm in mons_gives_xp 17:57:51 <|amethyst> now 17:57:59 <|amethyst> but deciding whether to put this into mons_class_gives_xp 17:58:24 <|amethyst> I think I will leave it out of there for now, so I don't have to look at every caller of mons_class_gives_xp 17:58:24 yeah, perhaps, but those vortices are placed in vaults sometimes 17:59:18 <|amethyst> do we want vault-placed vortices to give XP? 18:00:04 <|amethyst> minmay was complaining about that too 18:00:24 <|amethyst> well, I guess we can just give them the no-xp flag if we want that 18:00:32 <|amethyst> but they are theoretically a threat 18:00:40 <|amethyst> hm 18:00:52 <|amethyst> can any conjured monsters be placed permanently by spells? 18:01:20 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:01:24 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-1310-gaf4f4d6 (34) 18:01:32 <|amethyst> oh, right, OODs aren't summoned 18:03:06 |amethyst: ball lightning, not sure if those have the flag though 18:03:22 yeah they do have M_CONJURED 18:03:27 and are placed in vaults 18:03:33 (probably they shouldn't be) 18:03:41 <|amethyst> and they used to give XP? 18:04:07 <|amethyst> yes, they did 18:04:20 yeah, what did I change to make firestorm vortices give xp? 18:04:47 or did they just always and I never realized? 18:05:14 -!- vale__ is now known as vale 18:05:16 <|amethyst> mon-death used to have const bool no_xp = victim->has_ench(ENCH_ABJ) || !experience || victim->has 18:05:19 <|amethyst> _ench(ENCH_FAKE_ABJURATION); 18:05:24 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:05:43 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:05:44 <|amethyst> but mons_gives_xp doesn't check for ENCH_ABJ, only is_summoned (and ENCH_FAKE_ABJ) 18:05:47 <|amethyst> so I guess that's the fix 18:05:50 ah yes 18:05:56 <|amethyst> forgot conjured here, and just check ENCH_ABJ 18:05:57 didn't realize that was different 18:06:10 should maybe is_isummoned check that instead? 18:06:14 *is_summoned 18:06:18 I guess that's somehow different 18:06:22 <|amethyst> it does check that 18:06:29 <|amethyst> then it has a switch() for exceptions 18:06:44 right, the fire vortex is an exception :p 18:07:00 <|amethyst> as are animated dead, tukima's weapons, etc 18:07:10 <|amethyst> to prevent things like poofing when they "die" 18:08:49 I have 18:08:54 const bool leaves_corpse = !summoned && !fake_abjure && !timeout 18:08:55 && !mons_reset; 18:09:22 and for leaving a cloud !fake_abjure && !timeout && !mons_reset 18:09:25 both in monster_die 18:09:51 former is for various corpse-related effects, latter is leaving a cloud 18:10:04 so I'm not sure if that list of exceptions truly needs to exsit 18:10:14 <|amethyst> I think the old code would leave a corpse if there were a conjured corpse-leaving monster 18:10:19 <|amethyst> so that's probably fine 18:11:34 <|amethyst> (no conjured monsters currently leave corpses, but I guess it could happen) 18:11:45 I was wondering if that exception list in is_summoned is necessary, but there's also banishment and whether things need transit 18:12:06 we'd want to transit tukima danced weapons, for instance 18:13:00 but yeah a simple fix does seem to be to have mons_gives_xp look for ENCH_ABJ as opposed to only is_summoned 18:14:04 <|amethyst> well, there's also the question of whether you want the spell abjuration to make kraken tentacles vanish... 18:14:18 <|amethyst> which is why those exceptions were added in the first place 18:15:02 <|amethyst> (or, in this case, to make fire vortices vanish) 18:17:21 -!- DDFig has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:17:51 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:57 <|amethyst> oh, hm 18:20:19 <|amethyst> I think we could give ENCH_ABJ to animated undead 18:20:30 <|amethyst> since they are specifically handled in that "not-really-summoned" list 18:20:42 what would fake abjuration be for, then? 18:20:51 I'd assumed it was pretty much for those 18:20:55 <|amethyst> sticks to snakes I think? 18:20:58 oh, right 18:20:59 god 18:21:20 <|amethyst> oh 18:21:22 well those could likewise have ench_abj 18:21:41 oh and avatars I see 18:22:54 <|amethyst> hm 18:23:34 <|amethyst> fake abj running out is KILL_MISC, abj running out is KILL_DISMISSED or KILL_RESET 18:24:35 <|amethyst> but, yeah, FAKE_ABJURATION predated the tech of monsters knowing how they were summoned 18:24:50 <|amethyst> (the 0.5 commit I linked above) 18:25:22 so possibly all those things could simply use ench_abj but have exceptions in is_summoned 18:25:23 <|amethyst> oh 18:25:27 <|amethyst> no it didn't 18:25:32 <|amethyst> weirder and weirder 18:26:08 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-1311-gbcbd859: Don't give XP for spell-conjured monsters (minmay, gammafunk) 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bcbd8590e0cb 18:26:58 <|amethyst> I'm not 100% sure of all the behaviour differences between 1. ENCH_ABJ and counts as summoned 2. ENCH_ABJ and doesn't count 3. ENCH_FAKE_ABJURATION particularly between 2 and 3 18:27:05 <|amethyst> s/s between/s among/ 18:27:23 <|amethyst> %git b5cfd013 18:27:23 07due02 * 0.8.0-a0-4621-gb5cfd01: Reimplement Sticks to Snakes as a pure transmutation. 10(4 years, 5 months ago, 9 files, 63+ 36-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5cfd013cba9 18:28:59 <|amethyst> yeah, I think that probably could have been made to use ENCH_ABJ even when it was added, with an is_summoned special case and something to special case the message 18:29:36 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:30:27 <|amethyst> but maybe this way ended up having fewer special cases, or having them in nicer places 18:30:30 <|amethyst> dunno 18:32:10 -!- Senjaii has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:33:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:42 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:54 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:49 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:26 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:13 |amethyst: ok, thanks for the fix, I'll try to take a close look at it at some point 19:01:02 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 19:08:01 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 19:11:16 when you go downstairs in a hell branch, are you guaranteed to land on a gateway back to the vestibule? i asked in ##crawl and they said it's random, but i've gotten down to tar:7 without ever landing anywhere else 19:11:40 yes, unless you use a hatch, afaik 19:11:48 just like normal stairs 19:12:26 yeah, i shafted one floor and landed elsewhere 19:12:32 that's good to know 19:12:37 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:24 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:19:13 -!- coledot has quit [Quit: coledot] 19:26:03 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:29:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:31:12 -!- copt has quit [] 19:33:32 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:52 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:15 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:04 !vault minmay_misc_feat_encased 19:45:04 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_features.des#l540 19:46:20 apparently this sort of vault can cause: 19:46:23 VETO: D:1: Had 1 zones, now has 2; broken by minmay_misc_feat_encased. 19:47:28 I take it that it wouldn't do that if it weren't a minivault, since the level would start out knowing to connect to the @s? 19:47:58 <|amethyst> hm 19:48:52 <|amethyst> @ should be connected in minivaults 19:48:58 <|amethyst> I wonder if it's the + 19:49:09 + is supposed to act like @ if it's on the edges, no? 19:49:26 <|amethyst> I don't know in what cases that applies 19:51:19 well it's also possible that it simply created a zone through the placement of its walls 19:51:41 <|amethyst> hyeah, it may have cut something else off 19:51:44 like a passage broken by the rock walls 19:51:59 <|amethyst> in which case I guess a non-minivault would have helped 19:52:33 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:36 oh, right 19:53:12 the doors definitely seem to get connected every time like @ 19:53:29 <|amethyst> yeah 19:53:39 <|amethyst> I'm trying something 19:53:50 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:05 <|amethyst> disabling that "Isolated areas with no stairs" veto so I can see what's happening 19:55:39 pretty sure gammafunk is right, it's why the docs say to always surround minivaults with floor 19:55:47 so that they dont break connectivity 19:58:16 at least you could fix this on minmay_misc_feat_doors by removing the walls in the 4 corners 19:59:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 20:00:49 mmmm, minmay_misc_feat_enclosed is also...something 20:02:06 1.23% chance of just being a square, 98.77% chance of the center being no_rtele_into for no reason at all 20:02:45 yeah that is quite the decor vault 20:02:50 minmay_misc_feat_secret_circle too, why did you guys ever let me upload these 20:03:23 and minmay_misc_feat_square 20:03:53 well how old were you at the time 20:04:23 and finally minmay_misc_feat_rugged is the last one that makes weird no_rtele_into squares 20:04:28 i don't remember 20:08:00 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:08:32 <|amethyst> hm, given its size and the potential amount of solid border, I wonder if nicolae_twisting_strands should have an orient 20:08:56 <|amethyst> does decor even work with primary vaults? 20:11:43 -!- Gorgo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:27 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:38 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:21:03 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:26:18 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:33:26 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:36:50 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:42:21 hmm, SF 20:45:03 -!- Fusha has quit [] 20:51:33 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:33 i thought making mini_float the default meant that you didn't have to surround minivaults with floor anymore? 20:54:05 -!- Chance672 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:57:58 <|amethyst> wheals: while it still hooks up a random edge square (and these vaults hooked up @ and +), other parts of the vault can still cut other things off 20:59:14 <|amethyst> e.g if it overlays onto a T junction you could get this 20:59:19 <|amethyst> ##vvv### 20:59:19 <|amethyst> ..v.v.. 20:59:19 <|amethyst> ##v@v### #.# #.# 20:59:20 <|amethyst> err 20:59:26 <|amethyst> ##vvv### 20:59:26 <|amethyst> ..v.v.. 20:59:26 <|amethyst> ##v@v### 20:59:29 <|amethyst> #.# 20:59:31 <|amethyst> #.# 20:59:40 <|amethyst> (where v are vault walls) 21:00:03 <|amethyst> it will be vetoed though 21:00:13 <|amethyst> if that breaks level connectivity 21:00:41 <|amethyst> but surrounding it with floor and making it transparent (and self-connected) means it won't cause vetoes 21:00:47 <|amethyst> at least not those vetoes 21:03:13 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 21:05:03 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:09 <|amethyst> (before the change to make everything mini-float, you could have ended up with this:) 21:05:12 <|amethyst> ##### 21:05:13 <|amethyst> #.# 21:05:16 <|amethyst> ##v.v### 21:05:18 <|amethyst> ..v.v.. 21:05:21 <|amethyst> ##vvv### 21:05:23 <|amethyst> #.# 21:09:15 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:42 -!- Idolo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:15:42 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:15:54 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:12 -!- cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:21:12 -!- dakonic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:24:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:14 -!- gressup has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:26:23 -!- Jesse__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:27:33 -!- gressup_ is now known as gressup 21:33:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:09 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 21:43:55 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:45:15 -!- driftwood_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:28 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:46 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:05:49 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:06:42 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:08:35 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 22:08:41 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:12:53 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:13:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:14:11 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:23:49 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:12 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:29:42 -!- Lightli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:11 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:53 -!- gooeyguy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:53 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:14 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:56 -!- WhiteShark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:12 is the tavern down for anyone else? 22:33:26 I had an idea I was going to post in CYC: 22:33:38 "The Altar to the Unknown God" 22:33:40 <|amethyst> ??is cdo down 22:33:43 is cdo down[1/1]: 3 hours, 21 minutes, 41 seconds since last activity (cdo) 22:33:50 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:53 -!- fluffhead has quit [Quit: fluffhead] 22:33:57 a minivault that would appear on d:1-2 22:33:59 <|amethyst> hm, but mantis works 22:34:08 it would basically be an altar with some fountains as decoration 22:34:24 innovative! 22:34:32 heh. 22:34:37 <|amethyst> oh, there's a mysqldump going on 22:34:47 if you choose to follow, it would change to a random altar and you.god would be set to that god, if possible 22:35:06 maybe showing up in 10% of games or less 22:35:19 <|amethyst> ??is cdo down 22:35:20 is cdo down[1/1]: 3 hours, 23 minutes, 17 seconds since last activity (cdo) 22:35:21 <|amethyst> !lm cdo 22:35:21 No milestones for cdo. 22:35:24 <|amethyst> !lm * cdo 22:35:25 2664247. [2015-06-07 23:12:01] comborobin the Spry (L14 SpAs of Ru) entered the Orcish Mines on turn 31005. (D:12) 22:35:27 so advantage: you get a god really early. disadvantage: it might not be one you want 22:35:33 <|amethyst> hm, I just started a game 22:36:07 someone must have just kicked it back on 22:36:32 heh, xp for orc:4 is slightly more than twice the xp for the rest of orc combined 22:36:53 <|amethyst> !lm * cdo 22:36:54 2664248. [2015-06-08 02:35:13] Neil the Shield-Bearer (L1 HuFi) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 22:36:59 <|amethyst> oh there we go 22:37:10 <|amethyst> and tavern is working too 22:37:46 rast: isn't this the ecumenical altar again 22:37:58 I can't remember if there was a patch submitted 22:38:10 PleasingFungus when I hear "ecumenical altar" i think an altar that lets you *choose* any god 22:38:28 this would be a lot less good 22:41:26 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:14 well 22:42:23 the ecumenical altar was the exact thing you were proposing 22:42:53 did it ever exist? 22:43:00 beyond the proposal stage 22:43:24 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:24 not in trunk, no 22:43:34 !bug 9454 22:43:34 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9454 22:44:02 people had concerns, they were addressed, and then it got forgotten about 22:44:05 I wonder if I should merge it 22:44:15 interesting 22:44:30 why don't we "want altars on d:1"? 22:45:26 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:06 <|amethyst> I think the main reason was startscumming (particularly for people who want to speedrun) 22:46:21 ah 22:46:25 <|amethyst> you'd keep quitting and restarting until you start with an altar to the right god in LOS 22:46:31 well, I would say don't grant a piety bonus of any kind 22:46:43 and, OK, no altar on d:1 22:47:50 but but to compensate for those things, make it only d:2, not d:3 22:48:53 it seems like it's probably a really bad idea for most characters to worship a random god 22:58:37 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it's also a bad idea for most characters to eat purple meat or worship Xom 22:59:51 a worse idea than that 23:00:29 to clarify: this is wrt " well, I would say don't grant a piety bonus of any kind" 23:01:24 well giving a 20 piety bonus still doesn't make it a good idea 23:01:34 it just makes it even more scum appealing 23:01:34 <|amethyst> I argue that, for each character that can worship, there is a worse god to worship than "random god", since random god might give you a better god than the worst one 23:01:38 <|amethyst> :) 23:01:44 ok. 23:01:55 <|amethyst> but, yeah, it's bad for everyone 23:01:56 and yes its probably not ideal. but its a bit of a challenge 23:02:02 <|amethyst> unlike Chei, who might be good for some 23:02:24 i know we've all had those D:7 Temples where those were the first altars of the game 23:03:22 <|amethyst> not very frequently since the number of gods increased 23:03:27 anyway here <--- is a vote to put it in trunk with a high spawn rate for a while and see what people think 23:03:31 <|amethyst> maybe the first *good* altars 23:03:34 doesn't have to be in .17 23:04:18 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 23:05:03 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 23:06:38 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 23:06:48 the steam version can have a cheevo for winning after using it. 23:06:58 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:18 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 23:15:35 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 38.0.5/20150525141253]] 23:18:02 my proposal was a slight tweak on that 23:18:05 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 23:18:14 random altar to a useful god that's also fun 23:18:19 gives you sif, trog, or mak 23:18:35 haha 23:19:00 n.b. in this patch additionall all fixed altars can then also only be for one of these three gods 23:19:06 *additionally 23:19:11 gammacrawl 23:19:18 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 23:20:16 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:24:02 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:42 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- ly^ has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- MolotoveVGC has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- mspang has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- InsideTheVoid has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- FatShack has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- yuastnav has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- Rotatell has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- Annabella has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:42 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:50 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:27:53 -!- imantor has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:53 -!- minqmay has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:53 -!- twzt has quit [*.net *.split] 23:27:59 -!- FatShack has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:36 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:50 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:32:47 -!- Shard1697_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:18 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 23:37:29 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:38:46 -!- Pacra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:18 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:41:05 -!- MegaGrubby has quit [] 23:46:45 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 23:48:09 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:48:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:58:38 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:59:31 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-1311-gbcbd859 (34)