00:00:10 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:00:14 remember you can win GrFi^Athiest (and many, many other chars), and this doesn't mean that Gods are not useful 00:01:39 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 00:02:27 Evo depending on int would shut out very heavy melee chars who need good str/dex from using evocations as much 00:03:12 "shut out" is a bit extreme -- I'm not suggesting any numbers yet 00:03:43 well, if you want the dependence to be meaningful, I assume my 4 int mibe isn't going to be using evo much any more whatever the numbers 00:04:00 since you obviously don't want to just make evo stronger than it already is (it's very strong) 00:04:34 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:49 and that could be ok, I guess, since that's the price of playing a Mi 00:05:11 this is another thing where I'd probably agree with whatever MPA or elliptic said 00:05:26 only since I'm sure this has come up in the past? (evo depending on int) 00:05:39 and minmay will have some quip to make me feel ignorant 00:07:39 johnnyzero (L27 HuWz) (Zig:19) 00:07:50 oh, I was just spectating that game a sec ago 00:08:19 !crashlog 00:08:19 11227. johnnyzero, XL27 HuWz, T:82871 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/johnnyzero/crash-johnnyzero-20150513-050731.txt 00:08:28 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:08:45 oh hey cool 00:08:49 opc throw crash 00:09:43 -!- ir2ivps5 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:06 oh sorry 00:10:15 this is just a javelineer 00:10:56 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1014-g1ec2a3b (34) 00:11:52 hmm 00:12:08 %git 00:12:09 07gammafunk02 * 0.17-a0-1014-g1ec2a3b: Correct Kirke's death message, simplify, and reformat 10(51 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1ec2a3bb0465 00:12:35 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:47 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:13:31 oh, attacker is null? 00:15:27 -!- bh_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:01 &dump johnnyzero 00:16:02 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/johnnyzero/johnnyzero.txt 00:16:20 -!- Ragnor has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:16:43 -!- Imosa has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0/20141127111547]] 00:17:32 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:12 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1014-g1ec2a3b (34) 00:21:32 hrm, this one's tricky to debug 00:22:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: javelin of penetration went through and blew up a ball lightning, killing the thrower 00:22:55 did you just read the backtrace to figure that out? 00:23:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it then proceeded onwards, and when it hit the next thing the ranged_attack crashed when it tried to use a null player 00:23:08 <|amethyst> no, I've seen it before 00:23:25 <|amethyst> and spend several hours then :) 00:23:32 <|amethyst> s/spend/spent 00:23:50 I know you're wayyy better at debugging than I am, but I was going to say that was pretty impressive 00:24:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:24:36 ah yeah, I should have read that message history 00:24:43 You kill the merfolk javelineer! 00:24:49 would at least have been a clue 00:25:02 well that and the previous messages about the javelin 00:25:10 Ranged attack crash while clearing ziggurat 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9717 by johnnyzero 00:25:24 <|amethyst> the problem is 00:25:32 <|amethyst> I know exactly what the problem is 00:25:38 <|amethyst> but don't really know a good way to fix it 00:26:56 -!- T-u-r-d has quit [*.net *.split] 00:26:56 -!- ontoclasm has quit [*.net *.split] 00:26:56 -!- ldf has quit [*.net *.split] 00:26:56 -!- orionstein has quit [*.net *.split] 00:26:57 -!- kunwon1 has quit [*.net *.split] 00:26:57 -!- endou has quit [*.net *.split] 00:26:57 -!- bh has quit [*.net *.split] 00:27:03 almost seems like something that would have been a major problem for a long time? 00:27:15 oh, ranged attack reform 00:27:20 <|amethyst> it happened to work before because 1. ranged attacks didn't go through the attack code 2. beams carried their agent's mindex, not mid 00:28:12 |amethyst: can you make the ball lightning not blow up until the current attack is over? or, arrange for the monster to not be destroyed until its attack is over? 00:28:16 <|amethyst> 2. meant that the attacker would be a dead monster rather than a null pointer 00:29:15 <|amethyst> ball lightning/spore/etc explosion as a fineff is possible, but pretty substantial and doesn't cover all the things that might hurt the attacker, anyway 00:29:30 yeah 00:29:33 <|amethyst> I have considered monster death as something that happens at fineff time 00:29:58 <|amethyst> but who knows what knock-on effects that would have 00:30:39 I imagine it'd change message order, not that this necessarily matters 00:33:25 -!- Zargon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:34:18 <|amethyst> hm 00:34:37 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:34:40 <|amethyst> or perhaps to postpone the mons_reset and mid cache removal until then 00:35:08 <|amethyst> it's not that we want the monster to be alive, we just want its info to be available 00:35:15 if a monster gets created during the attack, would this create a problem? 00:35:33 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:45 maybe all that is a fineff 00:35:47 <|amethyst> yeah, we would also have to reserve the mindex as though it were alive 00:36:10 <|amethyst> it would be nice if fineffs could still refer to dead actors 00:36:14 fr a monster with a ranged attack that spawns monsters next to you 00:36:24 ...wait, that's robin 00:37:57 guardian naga 00:38:07 <|amethyst> basically, I'd want to make monsters have three states: alive, doomed, dead-and-reset whereas currently the states are alive, dead-but-not-yet-reset-but-maybe-reused, reset 00:38:21 <|amethyst> and the latter two states aren't really distinguished 00:38:32 ontoclasm1: haunt also 00:38:40 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:43 and ghost clouds 00:39:19 <|amethyst> so that a given mindex always refers to the same monster, and a valid but possibly dead monster, within the span of one turn 00:40:12 <|amethyst> where "turn" might be "player or monster action" or might actually be a whole player turn, not sure which would be better 00:44:27 I guess if it's a full turn, you might more checks for monster abilities iterating over los looking for e.g. visible monsters? 00:44:47 <|amethyst> those can continue to ignore dead monsters 00:44:52 yeah, ok 00:44:53 <|amethyst> s/dead/doomed/ 00:45:26 <|amethyst> the only visible change from now should be that you might run out of monster slots sooner 00:45:45 <|amethyst> e.g. a spore producing a ballisto on death (rip) 00:46:04 <|amethyst> might not have a slot available for the ballisto 00:46:26 <|amethyst> even though its slot is going to be freed soon enough 00:48:38 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:49:08 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:17 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1014-g1ec2a3b 00:56:25 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:57:07 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:06:30 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 01:07:29 -!- Utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:37 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:08:27 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:09:41 -!- Utrick has quit [Client Quit] 01:11:12 heh. people suggested int = mr a long time ago https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:mutation:stats&s[]=stat 01:14:13 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:18:54 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:21:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:49 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:27:08 -!- vale has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:12 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:57 -!- Idolo has quit [] 01:36:10 -!- T-u-r-d` has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:42:00 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:50:13 -!- Shard1697 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:56:44 -!- Okiemurse_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:49 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:07:16 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 02:10:59 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:19:19 -!- Shard1697 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:33 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1014-g1ec2a3b (34) 02:23:55 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:32:22 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:39:18 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:45:08 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:52:15 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:56 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 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has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:29:37 -!- thrig has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:29:37 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:29:37 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 05:29:37 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:29:37 -!- ChongLi has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:29:37 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:37 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:57 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:58 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 05:31:00 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 05:32:19 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:25 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:07 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:36:55 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:37:18 -!- ebering has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:23 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:44:57 -!- Chance672 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:14 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:59:01 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:09 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:06:25 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:13:28 -!- Chance672 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:13:58 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:55 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 06:22:19 -!- ___miek has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:23:48 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:24:31 -!- gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:32:51 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:35:21 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:33 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:47:20 -!- ekix has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:51:11 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:53:59 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:58:37 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:48 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:06:49 apparentbliss (L18 HOGl) ASSERT(in_non_diamond_int(r.start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 217 failed. (Snake:4) 07:09:47 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 07:10:31 -!- tgcid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:11:15 The Serpent of Hell breathes INVALID BEAM at you. 07:12:12 looks like it's abjuring with that breath, unless i'm just seeing two separate actions 07:12:17 -!- Okiemurse_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:29 -!- Okiemurse_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:17 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:17 -!- pintc has quit [Changing host] 07:21:36 -!- Okiemurse_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:24:47 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:30 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:52 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:49:59 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:45 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:56:02 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:51 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:00:30 -!- orionstein_ has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 08:02:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:08:08 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1015-g059ff24: Refactor _autoswitch_to_ranged. 10(44 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/059ff24e0408 08:08:08 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1016-gefca2e5: Remove a now-incorrect line. 10(38 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/efca2e5e8f83 08:08:08 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1017-g7cce488: Make dropping take 10 aut per item rather than 8. 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7cce488b794e 08:15:54 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:28 -!- Okiemurse has quit [] 08:23:58 -!- ldf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:32:31 -!- Sose has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:32:33 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:49 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:09 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:37:26 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1018-g3d875c2: Checkwhite. 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3d875c2111dc 08:42:47 -!- finrod has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:45:02 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 08:47:44 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:16 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:52:09 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:38 -!- MgDark_HuWn is now known as MgDark 08:55:16 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:55:46 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:56:32 -!- Okiemurse_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:16 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:04:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:10:45 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:11:27 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:41 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 09:18:30 -!- scummos| has quit [Client Quit] 09:18:42 Bacchus (L21 SpEn) ASSERT(_valid()) in 'ray.cc' at line 194 failed. 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with itemdest gone i don't see any harm in being able to drop any number of unequipped items in 10 aut 11:02:54 minmay: OK, I'll let wheals know. 11:03:58 it still makes a tiny amount of difference for timed portals, but almost certainly not enough to care about 11:03:58 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:04:37 would that difference actually be a good thing even if it mattered 11:05:04 also a good point 11:06:23 i guess the main problem is it makes dropping order a bit unintuitive (instead of dropping in inventory screen order the game should drop all unequipped items first, then equipped ones) 11:07:09 <|amethyst> wouldn't making multidrop free mean it is turncount-optimal to hold onto known useless items until your inventory is full, then drop everything at once? 11:07:23 (unless you want to minimize total time taken instead of dropping each item as early as possible, in which case it should unequip all equipped items, then drop everything...) 11:07:24 <|amethyst> or, rather, is that a problem? 11:07:35 |amethyst: I'm pretty sure it's turncount-optimal to not pick up useless items in the first place 11:08:09 or if you mean items that weren't useless before but have become useless, it's turncount-optimal to hold onto those until you need the inventory slot, surely (because you might be able to avvoid dropping them altogether!) 11:08:25 in the current situation 11:08:26 <|amethyst> hm 11:09:31 I think the obnoxiousness of multidrop getting interrupted all the time is worse than the obnoxiousness of a slight increase in the time you hold onto useless items 11:10:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:39 -!- Ipsum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:14 <|amethyst> yeah 11:11:24 To be clear, my main motivation for this change is that picking up multiple items takes the same amount of time no matter how many items it is 11:11:26 <|amethyst> and it would be nice to get rid of the multidrop delay altogether 11:11:41 so it's odd for dropping items to be asymmetrical, in my mind 11:11:42 <|amethyst> dropping the equipped items last wouldn't have to cost extra turns 11:13:07 <|amethyst> well, there is a difference in that you don't usually find that many items stacked on one square unless it's a player's stash 11:13:24 <|amethyst> but not necessarily a meaningful enough difference to justify the asymmetry 11:15:05 <|amethyst> hmm 11:15:59 <|amethyst> oh, good, breadthrowing is slow like breadswinging 11:16:29 <|amethyst> I was worried for a sec that wheals had unintentionally encouraged high-Throwing characters to throw their junk rather than dropping it 11:16:54 haha 11:17:12 remember when you could save time by wielding every item before dropping it 11:17:47 <|amethyst> instead, it's if you have extra turns of finesse uop 11:17:51 <|amethyst> s/uop/up/ 11:18:16 good 11:18:26 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:36 <|amethyst> and that was still a theoretical thing under the old numbers 11:18:39 <|amethyst> since 0.75 < 0.8 11:19:27 obviously dropping should be instant 11:19:49 <|amethyst> dropping and stashes should cease to be a thing 11:20:17 <|amethyst> everyone gets a bag of holding that can be accessed by ctrl-f 11:20:20 that's what I'd campaign for if it had a nonzero chance of being implemented in dcss, yes 11:20:29 well not the bag part 11:21:13 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:24:07 you know, at this point, do we even need to make an explicit switchover from gitorious to github 11:24:16 i could just disable my mirrorer on the 15th 11:24:31 and then the repo turning read-only would be notice enough for people to stop pushing there 11:25:18 <|amethyst> the only thing missing would be a note for (mostly non-devteam) stragglers indicating where the repo moved 11:26:09 well, the documentation has all already been updated, hasn't it? 11:26:18 <|amethyst> I was about to say that 11:26:58 <|amethyst> maybe a line in README.md about it? 11:27:30 <|amethyst> next to the build status perhaps so it's at the top 11:27:38 <|amethyst> alternatively, near the end in the "Patches" section 11:28:23 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:40 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:28:49 <|amethyst> github is mentioned in docs/develop/git/ and docs/develop/patch_guide.txt but I was mostly concerned about people who use a git checkout to play the latest trunk locally, but who aren't necessarily interested in development 11:28:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:31 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:33:48 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:34:14 -!- quik has quit [Quit: "Oye, Ray. No he caído. No me derribaste, Ray." Jake La Motta (Robert De Niro) en Toro Salvaje] 11:35:46 doy: isn't better if we just make the switch at a time where we exactly know what it is? 11:35:58 rather than just "maybe on the 15th if gitorious manages to do that" 11:36:49 I'm happy to send an email to CRD Right Now 11:38:57 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:02 do it! 11:40:14 if someone wants to send an email Right Now, i'm also fine with that 11:40:17 just tell me what to do 11:41:33 -!- Naga has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:41:43 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 11:41:43 -!- Ipsum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:00 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:16 doy: the plan you describe of making a commit to the README.md is fine 11:42:31 hrm, do we want to just do it now, and notify CRD? 11:42:36 making a commit to the README.md? 11:42:40 yeah 11:42:45 <|amethyst> that was my suggestion 11:42:52 <|amethyst> so let's see 11:43:00 what kind of a commit? 11:43:04 -!- seriallos has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:37 minmay: BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO PROGRAM 11:43:37 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:45:42 doy: I think just a a simple message at the top saying that we've moved to github. We could leave it in place until the repo is read-only on gitorious' side 11:45:43 <|amethyst> Maybe just a line "The most up-to-date source code for Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is at https://github.com/crawl/crawl/" 11:46:05 sounds good, would you like to do this, or should I? 11:46:12 <|amethyst> go ahead 11:46:18 well 11:46:27 we should do it only on gitorious, not on github 11:46:30 i'm going to lunch though 11:46:32 i'll be back 11:46:46 in a bit 11:46:46 ok 11:46:46 <|amethyst> hm 11:46:52 <|amethyst> my wording was intended to be something that could go in both places 11:47:01 yeah, and if we do gitorious-only we have problems, no? 11:47:15 as in someone gets that commit, and then has to force-pull for github? 11:47:17 <|amethyst> it also helps someone playing online find out where to contribute 11:47:19 *from 11:47:48 yeah I think it's ok to have it both places, and we can even remove it when gitorious becomes read-only if we wish 11:47:53 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:53 it'll always be in the gitorious one 11:48:08 can we change the name of the gitorious organization from "Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup" to some kind of warning? 11:48:22 like "TEAM ULTRA HAX"? 11:48:45 or "GO AWAY, WE'RE ON GITHUB NOW" 11:48:50 |amethyst: hrm, do you think this should be rightunder the travis image? 11:49:06 e.g. Note: The most up-to-date source code for Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is at https://github.com/crawl/crawl/ 11:49:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:49:28 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:49:29 <|amethyst> that was my thought, but maybe that's too prominent for user-facing documentation? 11:49:56 see what ais523 did https://gitorious.org/nitrohack/ais523 11:50:02 my thought is that we'd remove it, but maybe that's not a great idea? I don't see a problem with removing it after gitorious is read-only 11:50:08 shouldn't wandering mushrooms turn friendly or at least neutral once fedhas penance ends 11:50:50 that's not how it works for beogh, fwiw 11:51:05 beogh doesn't turn all orcs friendly/neutral either 11:51:06 that is, beogh & fedhas currently work in the same way (the way you dislike) 11:51:23 well, if you attack a mushroom, fedhas won't turn it friendly/neutral. 11:51:30 it's a one-time effect per creature. 11:52:04 so I feel guilty for killing something that is attempting to murder me 11:52:09 well at least it doesn't give further penance 11:52:33 if only you could run away from plants and wandering mushrooms 11:52:50 do wandering mushrooms still have their gimmick 11:52:51 I forget 11:52:54 but the autoexplore cost 11:53:11 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: yes 11:53:15 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:53:17 good, probably. 11:54:47 <|amethyst> hm 11:54:53 <|amethyst> re the guilty thing 11:55:03 <|amethyst> hm 11:55:18 <|amethyst> no, I guess TSO would penalize you in the same situation 11:55:49 <|amethyst> for killing a holy that was once neutral 11:56:38 so 11:56:56 do people have ideas for replacing flight in dragon/air/sky 11:56:56 neutral permanent holies aren't a thing really though, i paid the piety cost to create this wandering mushroom!!! 11:57:16 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:57:45 (and dreams, but silence seemed like a good enough fit to me) 11:58:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:59:04 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-1019-g24a433f: Add a note about the Github repo to README.md for Gitorious users 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/24a433fb235d 11:59:21 wheals: oh, are you removing it 11:59:29 yeah 11:59:30 is Flight really in three books 11:59:31 er 11:59:33 four 11:59:35 yup! 11:59:38 dang. 11:59:48 <|amethyst> does the ring stay? 11:59:56 because the effect wasn't common enough on potions, rings, randarts, boots, species, and the Tornado spell 11:59:57 <|amethyst> because it seems like it would have similar problems to the spell 12:00:23 it at least takes up a slot 12:00:23 <|amethyst> oh, I guess you can infinitely sustain spell flight, can't you? 12:00:27 yeah 12:00:32 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:00:33 and that 12:01:00 for clarity, can you reiterate the reasoning? 12:01:04 sorry if I missed the earlier discussion 12:01:14 you're having it! 12:01:25 <|amethyst> I think "because the effect wasn't common enough on potions, rings, randarts, boots, species, and the Tornado spell" is the reasoning 12:01:37 http://sprunge.us/VCMJ 12:02:16 admittedly it's better than when flight made you faster, increased your carrying cap, and made you immune to some traps 12:02:17 ah, thanks! 12:02:48 hm. need to add more dragon spells. 12:03:03 <|amethyst> book of the dragon can get flame tongue 12:03:05 could give it bolt of cold or poison cloud or something, actually. there's more than one dragon type out there 12:03:07 dragonball 12:03:07 heh 12:03:26 I'm not sure who would actually memorize flame tongue if you don't start with it. 12:03:32 cause dragon. dragon cloud. control dragons. 12:03:35 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:51 ignite dragons? 12:03:52 lehudib's crystal dragon 12:03:55 ! 12:03:58 FR 12:04:02 draconic horde!!! 12:04:03 <|amethyst> Dragon of Golubria 12:04:12 cure dragon 12:04:40 sticks to dragons 12:04:47 Eringya's Surprising Dragons 12:04:51 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:04:53 and, of course, symbol of dragons 12:06:04 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:07:02 PleasingFungus: anyway, i'm not sure who actually memorizes cause fear when they don't start with it either 12:07:09 <|amethyst> @??dragon 12:07:09 can't place dummy monster: "dragon" 12:07:12 well 12:07:13 <|amethyst> @??fire dragon 12:07:13 fire dragon (04D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 74-107 | AC/EV: 10/8 | Dam: 20, 13, 1307(trample) | fly | Res: 06magic(60), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1069 | Sp: fire breath (3d24) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 12:07:15 <|amethyst> solution: 12:07:18 that's not a problem of its spell level, it's just a problem of 12:07:19 cause fear 12:07:23 <|amethyst> make dragons fast, and put Haste in the book 12:07:27 haha 12:07:27 yeah.... 12:07:33 rename haste quicksilver form 12:07:44 I had a cool idea for qs form but it was also insanely bad 12:07:46 the idea 12:08:04 (mr immune form, basically. the main issue was contam) 12:08:17 <|amethyst> MR immune? 12:08:24 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:48 I need to check my notes 12:09:06 oh, my notes are useless 12:09:08 ah well 12:09:11 thanks, past me. 12:09:29 <|amethyst> shadow form is already magic immune (in the "hostile enchantments" sense), but I guess isn't a spell 12:09:37 didn't actually know that 12:09:51 <|amethyst> what about actual magic immunity 12:10:14 anyway my feeling was that it would have some weird interaction with contamination 12:10:27 but I couldn't figure out a good way to make that both useful and not horribly degenerate 12:10:52 |amethyst: like, to damaging spells? summons? 12:10:55 undead? 12:11:20 MarvinPA: does lightning spire in AE starting book fall under "power creep" 12:11:23 <|amethyst> I'd say to damaging spells, and beams 12:11:39 PleasingFungus: plutonian form 12:11:48 cherufe form 12:12:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but yeah, seems open to endless bug reports about "why isn't this included?" 12:12:50 or "why is this included?" (e.g. throw icicle) 12:13:29 wheals: probably "yes", what would it replace? book of air is already pretty good 12:13:29 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:13:35 MarvinPA: flight is going away 12:13:43 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:47 anyway, wrt dragon book, could use flame tongue for maximum fire flavor, or bolt of cold/pcloud for usability & dragon flavor 12:13:50 the book is possible solid enough to just not get anything 12:13:51 book of air with flight just removed seems totally fine 12:14:05 really 12:14:06 that's how it exists for me already most of the time anyway 12:14:08 it's not like flight represents power of any kind 12:14:09 hm 12:14:12 heh 12:14:15 i think i was concerned about it being small for a starter mostly 12:14:24 plenty of starter books have 5 12:14:27 ??book of air 12:14:27 book of air[1/1]: Shock, Swiftness, Repel Missiles, Flight, Static Discharge, Lightning Bolt 12:14:36 and these are 5 that are all pretty good 12:14:43 yeah 12:15:04 so is water/lava going away or do i need to read backlogs or something 12:15:17 <|amethyst> only the Flight spell 12:15:35 <|amethyst> from the backlog: http://sprunge.us/VCMJ 12:15:52 <|amethyst> hm 12:16:15 hm, I guess I'm just awful with ae 12:16:23 <|amethyst> boots of flying still work under sac artifice, right? 12:16:26 according to ~the stats~, it's an average or slightly-above-average background 12:16:33 oh yeah 12:16:36 maybe 12:16:41 worried about mummies in coc? 12:16:54 !tell doy CRD email sent and there's a note at the top of README.md that we'll keep at least until it can get frozen in gitorious' repo, after which we can remove from github 12:16:54 gammafunk: OK, I'll let doy know. 12:16:56 you could also have sacrificed charms or air already 12:17:00 wheals: just get them to convert to gozag... unless !flight was removed from his effects? 12:17:09 I forget 12:17:16 also, it makes ru more fragile if only one sac is necessary to break your char 12:17:22 !tell doy Let me know you've disabled the mirror, and I'll send an update to CRD (or feel free to do so yourself), thanks! 12:17:22 gammafunk: OK, I'll let doy know. 12:17:24 or make power leap so strong it splashes all the water away!! 12:18:03 I had some vague complaint yester about some lasty thing 12:18:09 fr give ru a very slow ctele effect 12:18:12 but now I forget, and that's upsetting... 12:18:20 *yesterday 12:18:33 cteleitis 12:19:16 is now a good time to mention ctele removal 12:19:33 is it ever not! 12:19:45 cteleitis is actually what you have in nethack if you have teleportitis as well as innate teleport control (both can be gained from eating Tengu corspes) 12:20:03 it randomly prompts you for a location to teleport to, and you can just cancel it 12:20:17 that sounds kind of annoying. 12:20:18 because it's a Good Design 12:20:26 PleasingFungus: FLAVOR 12:20:36 apparently fedhas followers can carefully walk through plants while berserk 12:20:42 haha 12:20:44 that doesn't sound very berserk-y 12:20:55 They tiptoe full of rage 12:20:55 RAAGH! MUST PROTECT PLANTS 12:21:04 my favourite ctele removal discovery was that formicids can't shaft themselves in tomb until after they've picked up the rune and gone back upstairs 12:21:07 <|amethyst> remove the word "caefully" 12:21:21 <|amethyst> s/cae/care/ 12:21:32 gammafunk: lemme know if you recall it 12:21:52 Lasty_: we might have been complaining about the new arte properties, it's all a haze right now 12:21:54 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:58 You furiously walk through the plants!!! 12:22:06 so glad I don'thave a good mibe going, since ctele remove is apparently actually happening 12:22:10 PleasingFungus: boots of flying still start "on" for sac evo characters 12:22:11 |amethyst: and let them do it at 1.0 delay instead of 1.5? (i think that's what the "carefully" is meant to indicate!) :P 12:22:33 <|amethyst> You splash around in the plants! 12:22:34 technically 12:22:39 they do move at 1.0 instead of 1.5 12:22:41 while berserk 12:22:44 gammafunk: last I heard, your problem was with the name on the draining one, and MarvinPA fixed that 12:22:53 Lasty_: cool! (wrt flyboots) 12:23:11 can you you disable flying though? 12:23:14 PleasingFungus: you just can't turn them off :D 12:23:15 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 12:23:16 oh I guess you can just take them off 12:23:17 haha 12:23:30 PleasingFungus: well, not quite! 12:23:33 but yes i see what you mean 12:23:48 -!- constantinexvi has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:23:52 You walk carefully through the plants. 12:23:52 Really walk into that blade trap? 12:23:52 _Okay, then. 12:24:13 huh, blade traps still exist. 12:24:26 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:24:33 wait, berzerk does give you fast movement, doesn't it? 12:24:47 i happened to be in tomb still, yeah, but the point was that the message timing is weird there! 12:24:55 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-1019-g24a433f (34) 12:25:00 I'd thought it was haste+might+1.5xHP+zerk action restrictions 12:25:11 Really walk carefully into that blade trap? 12:25:15 i assume it happens if you have a plant excluded or something, too 12:25:29 gammafunk: yeah you get fast move 12:25:42 (just like haste) 12:25:46 you don't get _many_ moves 12:26:18 unless it's a xomberserk 12:26:20 MarvinPA: yeah I figured, just got distracted 12:26:23 imho message ordering is impossible. 12:26:25 good, my DE had better be using that invo slot for desperate escape measures involving !berserk for a good reason 12:26:30 just turn off messages entirely. 12:26:33 chaos reigns. 12:26:48 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:56 ??implemented bad ideas[read 12:26:57 implemented_bad_ideas[3/27]: 10. A graphical tile interface, so players don't need to read to play Crawl! 12:27:19 -!- Brannock has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:28:08 replace messages with icons 12:28:23 to be fully modern, replace them with emoji 12:28:44 :O 12:28:49 ANGRY FACE SWORD HEART. GHOST. SAVE MACROS? 12:28:58 (in this scenario, there is a 'save macro' emoji.) 12:29:04 ??implemented_bad_ideas[19] 12:29:04 implemented bad ideas[19/27]: fr[3/5]: Commonly contains ideas of such well-thought-out nature as [...] Natasha to go with Boris. 12:31:57 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 12:32:37 -!- namelastname112 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:50 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-1020-ge683cc4: Remove the Flight spell. 10(7 days ago, 12 files, 21+ 49-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e683cc4b791a 12:37:53 tomahawks still explode as meph clouds 12:37:53 wasn't that supposed to change 12:37:53 you can change their colour if you want 12:38:39 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:39:47 -!- vale has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:40:40 how does that happen 12:42:04 -!- Torax_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:33 i can't see anything about changing cloud glyphs in ??rcfile and i don't know what the tomahawk explosion is called anyway 12:43:46 i mean, the colour is just the same as the item's colour 12:43:55 oh 12:44:07 i don't really think it's very confusing since one leaves clouds 12:46:19 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:38 hrm 12:48:50 -!- copt has quit [] 12:49:35 "renewed infinitely unlike more interesting ones" 12:49:38 not sure what that means 12:50:04 i mean, potions have a resource to manage 12:50:28 admittedly the evocation is not very interesting either 12:50:37 yes, we're not removing the boots 12:50:43 what require even less resource 12:51:14 but also no micromanagement 12:51:48 and the ring is infinite, requires micromanagement that's in practice more annoying 12:52:27 well sure, i agree the ring is not very good either 12:53:11 anyhow, I guess it's not a major problem, people going to cocytus had better find the ring or go back and pick up flight pots or just use a lot of tele 12:55:37 Or learn Tornado :p 12:57:43 or dragon form, i hear rC- is good in coc 12:58:15 an atar vaul with many configurations 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9718 by Marbit 12:58:15 Wizmode to white draconian -> cast dragonform. Problem solved. 12:58:15 ah, but I always roll a white draconian 12:59:14 I sent the vault, I'm here in case something in the vault needs to be changed 13:00:23 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:00:29 atar vaul 13:00:37 <|amethyst> Is the ring infinite? 13:00:38 Marbit: I'd probably place those 0 with NSUBST 13:00:49 after the pqr = . 13:00:57 <|amethyst> I thought you couldn't evoke the ring to extend flight 13:01:06 NSUBST . = 4:0 / *:. 13:01:13 or sorry 13:01:20 make the 4 an 8 13:01:22 |amethyst: correct 13:01:44 |amethyst: evoking the ring while flight is active turns flight off 13:01:49 NSUBST . = 8:0 / *:. ? 13:01:52 if there are no closets, that should place them randomly throughout the vault 13:01:55 yeah 13:01:55 (unless the flight is from another source) 13:02:15 Marbit: should go *after* the SUBST: line though 13:02:39 and then you'd remove the 0 from the map, of course 13:02:46 hrm 13:02:54 I'll test that, thanks! 13:02:55 I guess that does create guaranteed open space 13:03:07 Marbit: maybe you can modify those former 0 to be possible paths? 13:03:29 they can also just be . 13:04:42 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:05:06 also not sure about placing 8 more 0 on d:1 13:05:14 but I'd have to look at what all we allow on D:1 13:05:25 at worse it could become D:2-6 13:05:39 well, I like having monsters in the vault (I mean more than the normally generated monsters). making the 0s paths makes things complicated, I'll try to transform them into . though 13:05:42 tbh it can have a deepther depth than 6 13:06:09 I'll make the vault 2-6 then : ) 13:06:16 Marbit: yeah, by making them possible paths, I didn't mean place fewer monsters 13:06:25 you just have those spots potentially open, but sure . is also fine 13:06:56 Marbit: well no need to limit to 6, since it just uses 0 with means "normal spawn for the level" 13:07:59 oks, sounds good 13:08:00 -!- muravey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:29 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:33 -!- ekix has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:08:49 gammafunk: mirrorer disabled 13:08:51 doy: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:09:04 should we change remotes now? 13:09:13 doy: thanks! 13:09:27 wheals: yes, if you mean in your local config 13:09:42 ah, i see the CRD now 13:09:55 hrm, would setting the channel topic about this be helpful? 13:10:03 probably no one would notice 13:10:14 maybe give the exact command in your follow-up email to CRD? just to make things smoother 13:10:31 that'd be helpful 13:10:43 wheals: oh yeah, good idea 13:10:53 so the first time i joined ##crawl-dev, before i submitted any patches, i suggested that apporting the orb should cause the orb run to start, rather than waiting till you pick it up, so that no players feel encouraged to do this super-tedious thing of apporting it all the way to the stairs before picking it up. nobody was excited enough to implement it then, but i don't remember anyone being strongly against it. if i sent a patch to do th 13:10:59 wow, wheals had a good idea eveyone! 13:11:15 impossible. 13:11:21 ??implemented good ideas 13:11:21 I don't have a page labeled implemented_good_ideas in my learndb. 13:11:23 see 13:11:27 amalloy: i thought we had that already 13:11:35 Zannick: it just makes a bunch of noise 13:11:36 amalloy: specifically added for one of the sprints 13:11:40 amalloy: it cut off at "if i sent a patch to do tha" 13:11:51 wheals: if i sent a patch to do that myself, would it get merged? 13:12:00 amalloy: well how would it start, exactly 13:12:20 i'd suggest asking elliptic, he's probably the one who does it the most :P 13:12:20 I assume it'd somehow either do nothing or apport into your inventory? 13:12:33 hey I do it too! (not the apport to stairs thing though) 13:12:45 i don't know anyone who actually does that thing 13:13:06 apporting to stairs is something you might only do if you completely clear Z:5 13:13:06 wheals: i know at least one person 13:13:10 Some people favor doing it with nagas 13:13:11 which is generally bad to do 13:13:15 well the orb run monsters could just start spawning with the orb still on the floor (it'd require splitting you.char_direction into two separate things) 13:13:30 gammafunk: the most obvious choices to me seem like: "apport directly into inventory" or "apport to the floor you're on, and then start the orb run" 13:13:54 but yes it seems like a thing that would be merged if it existed, most of the time it is just a bad idea but occasionally it's useful and then it looks really silly 13:13:55 i'm not arguing that it's a good idea to totally clear zot:5 and then apport to the stairs, i'm saying there are players who think it's a good idea. i used to think so 13:14:10 yeah nobody is quite disagreeing 13:14:19 <|amethyst> re apport to inventory 13:14:26 could also then enable orb apportation in sprints i guess 13:14:27 <|amethyst> is that specifically for the orb, or in general? 13:14:32 since currently it's disabled since there it genuinely was a tech 13:14:43 in general would have an issue because of slot limits 13:14:58 wheals: nah, you can just give an error message if you try to apport while full 13:15:02 amalloy: well I think the way MPA said it is more relevant. If players think doing bad strategy is a good thing, that's not necessarily the fault of the effect 13:15:16 oh i guess i'm thinking of this 13:15:18 %git f42618b24 13:15:18 07doy02 * 0.8.0-a0-686-gf42618b: ...but do allow zot exit defenders (thanks Zannick) 10(4 years, 9 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f42618b24da2 13:15:19 but I agree that it's pretty bad if there are situations where it's genuinely useful 13:15:21 i think apport to floor and start orb run spawns is the better implementation, but probably more work 13:15:38 yeah 13:15:48 ideally remove you.char_direction though :P 13:16:30 yeah, it's already spoilery that the orb has a special chance for apport to fail (does it still have that?) 13:16:37 yeah 13:16:43 and having orb apporting go into your inventory is even more spoilery I guess 13:17:04 so it would be ideal if it didn't chance how apport functioned, but could be ok if you pissed off pan by moving it 13:17:17 s/chance/change/ 13:17:26 gammafunk: NSUBST works like a charm, thanks! 13:17:51 My vote would be taking the time to implement floor apport 13:17:51 apport to inventory would just mean that people would fill up their inventory before doing it 13:17:56 "Hi, our TV antenna works best with this orb seated RIGHT HERE. DO NOT MOVE. Thanks, Pan" 13:18:13 doy: eh? the orb doesn't take an inv slot 13:18:16 doy: hrm, how so, orb doesn't take inv..yes 13:18:24 is that why we removed pan, because he's such an asshole? 13:18:35