00:00:07 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:00:07 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:01:05 <|amethyst> chromium uses #ifndef PR_SET_PTRACER #define PR_SET_PTRACER 0x59616d61 #endif 00:01:19 <|amethyst> so it will work even if you compile it on an old machine an run it on a new one 00:01:35 <|amethyst> s/an run/and run/ 00:01:48 i'll add it, then 00:01:54 -!- cojito has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:02:18 that's long-1 i think 00:02:27 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-915-g8914353 (34) 00:03:16 <|amethyst> yeah 00:03:17 <|amethyst> http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/chrome/app/breakpad_linux.cc?r1=118927&r2=118926&pathrev=118927 00:03:41 that's nice, so I guess the code will run on every linux now 00:04:03 just a matter of the race condition 00:04:11 <|amethyst> well, since 2.1.57 00:04:32 <|amethyst> it won't do anything pre-3.2 or whenever the Yama thing was added 00:04:53 yeah, which is fine, since there were no ptrace restrictions then 00:04:59 <|amethyst> chequers: I was thinking to set it before the fork 00:05:22 oh, with PR_SET_PTRACER_ANY? 00:05:26 <|amethyst> yeah 00:05:37 i'll set the value for that too and do so 00:05:47 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:50 <|amethyst> and this should be in #ifdef TARGET_OS_LINUX 00:06:01 yes 00:06:07 <|amethyst> (as should be the #include ) 00:06:22 <|amethyst> we still need to fix the thing where cygwin looks like Linux 00:06:42 that seems to come from platform.h 00:06:45 <|amethyst> yeah 00:06:49 <|amethyst> unless cygwin has prctl or something 00:07:06 should i indent my #ifdef logic? 00:07:18 #ifdef TARGET_OS_LINUX #ifndef PR_SET_PTRACER 00:07:43 -!- tftf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:58 <|amethyst> yes, though we're not completely consistent on how to indent it 00:08:19 <|amethyst> probably with spaces after the # 00:08:21 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:27 <|amethyst> but there are a few places we put the spaces before the # 00:08:31 03chequers02 07[pull/21] * 0.17-a0-894-g98c2e7b: Support Yama LSM security requirements for ptrace. 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 14+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/98c2e7bedea0 00:08:48 ok 00:09:03 <|amethyst> oh 00:09:11 <|amethyst> on 417-419 00:09:24 #ifdef TARGET_OS_LINUX ; # ifndef PR_SET_PTRACER ? 00:09:29 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:37 <|amethyst> in general you'd put the #ifdef left-aligned and have prctl(...) at its usual indentation 00:10:01 <|amethyst> chequers: yeah 00:10:07 got it 00:10:29 <|amethyst> I'd also put that sleep into a similar #ifdef 00:10:45 <|amethyst> so OS X etc don't get a 1s delay for no reason 00:10:59 duh 00:11:49 well, the sleep isn't required at all 00:11:55 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:26 Yo guys, I'm interested in patching a minor macro-bug I've come across. I'm entirely unfamilliar with crawl-dev, could someone explain to me how I'd go about getting that patch to be a thing? 00:12:41 I've read the mantis main page, but it wasn't too precise on the issue of bugfixes 00:13:22 <|amethyst> you can make a new mantis issue and post the patch there 00:13:29 <|amethyst> or you can make a pull request on github 00:13:36 03chequers02 07[pull/21] * 0.17-a0-894-gd069484: Support Yama LSM security requirements for ptrace. 10(15 hours ago, 1 file, 14+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d0694845a9fb 00:13:42 There's already an issue up on mantis 00:13:55 |amethyst: ok, just need to fix cygwin. But perhaps it'll just work on cygwin anyway? I thought it was meant to replicate all linux header files 00:14:02 even if the functions are noop 00:14:06 So I could just post the patch and (assuming it's good) wait for it to be approved? 00:14:18 (actual patch link https://github.com/alexjurkiewicz/crawl-ref/commit/d0694845a9fb99d11dbf4cb44678199d53aa3486 ) 00:14:18 <|amethyst> well, it does help to let people know about it 00:14:20 <|amethyst> which bug? 00:14:26 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6303 00:14:32 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:14:35 (I've verified it's current in 0.16.1) 00:14:43 (And had a few other people verify too) 00:15:24 still no luck, guess i'm headed to bed 00:15:33 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-915-g8914353 (34) 00:16:21 <|amethyst> tftf: it's easiest if the patch was created with git format-patch 00:16:26 <|amethyst> so it has your metadata 00:16:33 <|amethyst> (and commit message) 00:16:40 LuckyNed (L27 GrMo) ASSERT(env.map_knowledge(pos).item()) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 269 failed. (Abyss:2) 00:16:53 <|amethyst> !crashlog luckyned 00:16:53 54. LuckyNed, XL27 GrMo, T:61463 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/LuckyNed/crash-LuckyNed-20150504-051639.txt 00:17:15 <|amethyst> hm 00:17:49 So, I pull the source from git, git format-patch, and then submit that on mantis? 00:17:57 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:18:16 <|amethyst> well, you'd apply your fix as a commit first 00:18:19 pull the source, make your changes, commit, then git format-patch HEAD~1, then submit 00:18:35 <|amethyst> if you aren't experienced with git, you could just post a plain patch 00:19:13 alright, thanks 00:19:47 <|amethyst> LuckyNed's crash is something to do with Gozag gold counting when banished deeper into the abyss 00:21:14 <|amethyst> but I don't think it's entirely that simple, since my attempt did not reproduce it 00:21:15 wow i didn't realise so much of the abyss was generated at once 00:22:26 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:29 |amethyst: i might be counting enum.h wrong, but it seems he has ATTR_GOZAG_FIRST_POTION=1 despite 9 potion petitions 00:24:34 <|amethyst> (btw, PR_SET_PTRACER's value is cute) 00:25:10 <|amethyst> chequers: that's correct 00:25:16 (also, now that I think about it can't you replace ATTR_GOZAG_FIRST_POTION with ATTR_GOZAG_POTIONS==0) 00:25:23 |amethyst: isn't that wrong? 00:25:25 <|amethyst> chequers: it means 'made your first petition' 00:25:42 oh, inverted 00:25:50 now I remember this actually tripped me up before 00:25:55 <|amethyst> and ATTR_GOZAG_POTIONS doesn't exist anymore 00:26:14 <|amethyst> well, the enumerator exists 00:26:24 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:33 #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 implies "going away soon"? 00:26:36 <|amethyst> but it is unused now that potion petition price doesn't increase 00:26:49 <|amethyst> means "going away next time we break save compat" 00:27:06 <|amethyst> which it sounds like there is agitation to do in 0.17\ 00:27:08 <|amethyst> s/\\// 00:27:19 this is a digression, but isn't there still a tracker for ability uses for the morgue screen? why did the attr exist in the first place? 00:30:38 <|amethyst> probably a desire to keep statistic-tracking separate from things with gameplay implication 00:30:41 <|amethyst> s 00:30:57 <|amethyst> also, because you'd have to iterate through the counts for all XLs 00:33:25 fair enough 00:33:59 -!- tftf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:38:26 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:40 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:39:48 -!- dob is now known as doubtofbuddha 00:45:28 -!- xodahs has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:46:16 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:58 -!- Sorbius has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:39 -!- Utrick has quit [Quit: Utrick] 00:50:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:52:47 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-915-g8914353 00:53:55 chequers: the TAG_MAJOR #if is one of the basic ways we have to not break games started after that last major version change but before any change which removed or otherwise changed something in an incompatible way with said earlier games 00:54:23 it leaves the code active, but the code will be removed if/when we break save compat again 00:54:24 <|amethyst> !source docs/develop/save_compatibility.txt 00:54:26 Can't find docs/develop/save_compatibility.txt. 00:54:33 yeah, see doc above 00:54:38 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-916-gfa4b38d: Don't pretend Cygwin is Linux. 10(15 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fa4b38d6e715 00:54:38 03chequers02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.17-a0-917-gc6f4cb3: Support Yama LSM security requirements for ptrace. 10(16 hours ago, 1 file, 14+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c6f4cb35b929 00:54:58 but cygwin *is* linux it has bash!!! 00:55:58 |amethyst: did you test it? 00:56:25 I'm still sad there's no super cute macro gimmick we could use to not have the "== 34" there 00:56:37 I mean, I'm pretty sure the worst case is no-op, but I'll have to wait for a crash on CPO 00:57:04 chequers: why can't you just induce a crash in wiz mode? 00:57:06 &ctrl-c 00:58:10 hm, let me rebuild 00:58:21 <|amethyst> chequers: yes, tested with ptrace_scope = 1 before and after the patch 00:58:26 <|amethyst> before, no backtrace 00:58:29 <|amethyst> after, backtrace 00:58:48 -!- copt has quit [] 00:59:12 <|amethyst> (then I set ptrace_scope back to 0 because I like tracing things) 00:59:26 <|amethyst> I didn't test on cygwin :) 01:00:22 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:01:00 <|amethyst> I guess I should test this on CSZO 01:01:01 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:01:06 <|amethyst> whose kernel is too old for this crap 01:02:37 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-917-gc6f4cb3 (34) 01:03:13 neil (L1 HuFi) ERROR in 'main.cc' at line 751: Intentional crash (D:1) 01:03:19 <|amethyst> !crashlog . 01:03:25 50. neil, XL1 HuFi, T:0 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/neil/crash-neil-20150504-060308.txt 01:03:25 <|amethyst> !crashlog neil 01:03:26 50. neil, XL1 HuFi, T:0 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/neil/crash-neil-20150504-060308.txt 01:03:47 <|amethyst> seems to work fine on older kernels 01:05:23 nice 01:07:02 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:10:02 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:17:39 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:17:51 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 01:23:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:24:57 -!- dplusplus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:26:09 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:20 -!- dgu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:31:08 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:20 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:28 -!- honeybadger has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:42:27 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:43 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:57:35 found this logic: 01:57:44 if (!you_worship(GOD_SIF_MUNA) && !you_worship(GOD_RU)) ; else if (you_worship(GOD_SIF_MUNA)) ; else 01:57:46 |amethyst: is there a reasonable way to delete old binaries from chroot/usr/games ? clean-trunks only deletes games where no saves exist, right? 01:57:49 should it be inverted? 01:58:02 if SIF_MUNA ; else if RU ; else 01:58:49 those binaries are 1/3 of my overall VPS storage 01:59:04 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:05:05 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:18:07 you can reduce the size of that storage by about 20% if you upx your dcs binaries 02:18:52 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:19:24 wish we could gzip dat resources though, that'd save a lot 02:19:37 you should code that :D 02:22:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-917-gc6f4cb3 (34) 02:25:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:49 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:27:42 !source do_god_gift 02:27:42 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/religion.cc#l1758 02:28:04 is it just me, or does this always return success = false for jiyva gifts? 02:28:28 -!- Kiel97 has quit [Client Quit] 02:28:49 oh, that's correct. success does nothing except stop autoexplore 02:31:26 guess i'll fix that 02:42:58 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:30 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 02:48:50 -!- tatara has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:51:02 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51:02 -!- tswett has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 02:51:04 -!- Warrigal has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:07 -!- Pupuser has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:34 amalloy_: what was the first for "error: use of undeclared identifier '_jiyva_mutate'" again? when _jiyva_mutate is a same-file function? 03:06:40 oh... the order of function definitions in a file matters 03:07:48 -!- dgu_ has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:09:53 -!- us17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:43 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:14:39 -!- Wahaha has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:49 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:11 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:17 -!- _miek has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:35:34 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:09 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:42:08 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 03:46:10 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:46:11 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:46:25 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:17 -!- Shard1697_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:50:56 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:54:24 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:23 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:40 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:58:24 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:57 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:09 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:34 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:01:19 -!- Siveran has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:21:24 -!- Inferior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:35:21 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:24 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:45:34 -!- elmdor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:46:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:40 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:12 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:07:25 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:10:00 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:44 -!- tgcid has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:00 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:37 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19:51 -!- n1k has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:04 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:22:50 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:17 -!- Orfax has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:27:21 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:51:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:54:52 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:07:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:09:19 -!- Lasty_1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:22 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:11:58 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:52 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:04 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:56 -!- zxc232 has quit [Client Quit] 06:15:12 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:13 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:23:43 -!- Lasty_1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:03 -!- Monkarai is now known as Monkaria 06:24:18 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:25:40 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:31:55 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:33:12 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:44 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:40:10 -!- mefis231 has quit [Client Quit] 06:41:02 -!- mefis231_ has quit [Client Quit] 06:50:33 -!- mefis231 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:52:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:07:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:52 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:34:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:56 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:42:52 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 07:45:58 MarvinPA: love me 07:46:01 (and my changes) 07:47:04 what changes? 07:57:25 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:27 -!- tgcid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:25 my pull requests 08:01:35 to make Ds^Gozag unstoppable 08:01:42 literally. unstoppable. 08:04:18 -!- Crehl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:40 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:22 -!- EndlessRain has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:14:52 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:36 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17:03 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:18:40 chequers: hi there! Changes look good. 08:19:08 (the ones you asked me about, on potion sets) 08:20:26 cool, as an update, nobody else like guaranteeing healing/magic, so that's gone 08:21:03 ok 08:21:54 also, i'm looking at reworking call merchant. I'd like to rework bribe branch but i have no good ideas yet 08:23:16 drke suggested an interesting gozag approach this arvo, paraphrasing, that there are no really strategic-only (as opposed to tactical) gods right now, and gozag's shop purchasing or oka's gifting is about as close as you can get. there is a niche for a heavily strategic-focused god that gozag could take 08:26:06 bribe branch should just work on all intelligent monsters in a branch, the hard-coded list of specific monsters it affects is really terrible 08:26:29 i was going to look into that but if you're motivated to work on gozag stuff... :P 08:26:32 MarvinPA: the original idea was that it also applies to branch-type monsters outside of the branch 08:26:51 I don't mind that aspect, but I claim it's crucial that bribes affect the top more than the chaff. 08:27:09 well, i dislike the current bribe, it just means you get less xp 08:27:11 right, it could still just scale with HD to affect dangerous stuff more than weak things 08:27:52 it's probably great if you don't feel confident killing the branch, but personally i play mifi and so on and the ability would be detrimental 08:28:04 chequers: I used bribe to tackle branches earlier than I otherwise could... 08:28:11 MarvinPA: yes, exactly 08:28:15 chequers: fwiw, n1k was looking into some bribe rework too. I'm not sure if he settled on anything, but it might be worth picking his brain. 08:28:20 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:28:27 oh, that seems like a non-issue? there's tons of XP in the game, making dangerous areas noticeably easier (if it worked better at doing that) in return for losing out on some xp seems totally fine 08:28:32 will do, thanks 08:28:46 right now i'm looking at call merchant though 08:28:55 my current idea is: giftable shops!!1 08:29:03 oh 08:29:05 that sounds cool 08:29:19 (instead of buying shops, they appear with a gift timeout) 08:29:29 what about giftable bazaars? 08:29:39 zxc232: so greedy :P 08:29:47 giftable troves at high piety! 08:29:49 what's the difference? 08:29:59 chequers: with bazaars, you have to shop instantly 08:29:59 call shop sort of needs to work the way it does in order to give you something to actually do with your infinite gold, i think? 08:30:11 actually, the time limited aspect of bazaars is bad 08:30:14 if you got them as gifts for no fee then the items inside would have to be much more expensive or something 08:30:19 chequers: what, why? 08:30:33 it encourages you to hoard gold, and not spend it on pp 08:30:48 no it doesn't 08:30:49 or maybe a small chance for a trove, with larger chances for bazaars/shops 08:30:58 "i could afford this 3.5k gda, but i am 200g short" 08:31:12 you don't gamble on something like a bazaar appearing 08:31:15 you just don't 08:31:24 then why would it be a good god ability? 08:31:50 my point is, if there's not a base level of consistency from things to buy, it's not really a good gold sink. and that's what gozag needs 08:32:01 probably the balancing of this sort of thing needs some thought, but I definitely get the feeling that this would be very fun 08:32:40 hmm, if gozag gave you too many bazaars, constantly, all the time, .... 08:33:16 one bazaar per level, at a chance of gold/x000 08:35:18 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:35:30 as I see it, Gozag shops have three functions: early on, you should be able to get equipment that's better than floor average. Furthermore, you can constantly keep purchasing consumables. Finally, in the end, you can try to optimise your equipment (this is sort of like a gold-powered recurring acquirement). When improving the last aspect, please don't forget the others. 08:36:42 fair point, IMO right now the first two uses don't currently exist, but I can see their value 08:36:45 the last bit is what it already does well 08:37:46 since once you've explored V/depths and can just drop shops at your feet you can probably afford a bunch of armour/jewellery shops 08:38:13 shops don't become available early enough right now to make much difference until after lair 08:39:25 so when do you people buy your first shops? 08:39:30 it's also very awkward in that you kinda get a few uses of it as long as you don't explore all of D 08:39:41 and then you just have a gap where you can't get any more use out of it until you've done a rune branch 08:39:43 well shops are sprinkled throughout pre-lair as it is 08:39:47 I always try to get a few into Dungeon. 08:39:51 maybe you should be able to get them with gozag earlier 08:40:02 instead of them costing as much as they do 08:40:20 MarvinPA: you can see it like this, but for me the Vaults lock affects how I explore 08:40:28 for example, Orc is very lucrative 08:40:37 (you get gold and you leave space in D for shos) 08:41:16 <|amethyst> that's kind of spoilery 08:41:21 it's very spoilery, yeah 08:41:21 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 08:41:32 <|amethyst> the call merchant help doesn't say "they can only place in D, Depths, and Vaults" 08:41:51 well, that's just an interface problem, it could easily say that 08:42:07 you can solve part of the problem by simply placing shop under player always 08:42:36 not literally that, of course 08:42:49 since shop will override the existing feature 08:42:51 chequers: I'd be a fan of that 08:43:00 chequers: yes, and I think many people like that. I don't like it because I think it's good that the new shop affects further exploration 08:43:32 (This is the decision "I am on D:10, the new shop is on D:12. When and how fast should I try to get the new stuff?") 08:43:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: Gozag booms: "Insufficient floor-space for new Wal-Mart." 08:44:00 You hear a splash and the gurgle of a rich person drowning. 08:44:27 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:32 you mean i'm doing lair and the shop is in vaults 08:45:03 or you clear d before getting a rune and the shop is in u:1 (i often do this) 08:45:15 chequers: but why? You know that you follow Gozag?? 08:45:38 is that a fun limitation to need to place on yourself as a gozag worshipper though 08:45:44 not exploring floors to try to manipulate shop placement 08:45:50 DrKe: who could answer that? It is fun for me. 08:45:59 <|amethyst> what happens if you hit a shaft? 08:45:59 i mean i get the fun of trying to go into dangerous areas for goodies 08:46:13 "untouched levels" is a scarce commodity, especially in Dungeon, and you can manage it 08:46:18 dpeg: basically i think shop placement changing behaviour partway through the game is inconsistent 08:46:38 <|amethyst> Why not make all connected branches eligible? 08:46:46 |amethyst: I wouldn't mind that. 08:46:49 if there is a way to place shops ahead of the player throughout entire game, that would work 08:46:55 chequers: how is that different to timed portal vaults? 08:46:57 that used to be the case 08:47:07 yes 08:47:30 what if you got extra chances for bazaars to spawn on floors passively (so that you'd have to explore dangerously etc)? 08:47:31 dpeg: sorry, what do you mean? in general the difference is that a shop can be returned to whenever 08:48:05 zxc232: it would be an interesting tradeoff -- better long-term items for an immediate risk 08:48:14 dpeg means that having a portal is "a way to place shops ahead of the player through the entire game" 08:48:14 but i feel the balance would be reallllly fine 08:48:45 there are many great gods though 08:48:53 trog, and so on 08:49:02 not sure what's wrong with having another strong god that is also fun 08:49:25 I want op gozag! 08:49:41 op = "overpowered" or "Octopode"? 08:49:53 I vote for reasonably balanced gozag myself 08:50:02 octopode was the most fun i had with gozag, because i duplicated +6 int ring 08:50:05 and it was pretty cool 08:50:21 not possible right now :( 08:50:33 i want a god that lets me get unrands consistently, rather than finding singing sowrd in zig:16 as a grfi and firestarter as a hofi 08:50:42 it was less exciting to dupe a nice ring with other races anyways 08:50:52 <|amethyst> I want a god that guarantees my HP never go below 50% 08:51:03 that's makhleb 08:51:18 <|amethyst> !lg * god=makhleb !won x=mhp,hp,dam 08:51:19 i thought unrands were rare for a reason 08:51:21 79873. [mhp=66;hp=-3;dam=6] rimel the Magician (L8 DrTm of Makhleb), incinerated by a smoke demon (sticky flame) on D:5 on 2015-05-04 12:12:04, with 1151 points after 4571 turns and 1:07:10. 08:51:28 chequers: I think I don't understand what you mean by inconsistency 08:51:33 anyway, i'm going to sleep, but I am halfway through gift-timeout-esque shop placement 08:51:36 that must be bugged 08:53:24 dpeg: what I mean is, right now most shops you place in late game have nothing worth buying, and occasionally there is a 4k artifact. This means gozag encourages you to have 4k banked gold, which means playing as if 4k = 0 except for rare moments when a shop appears. it would be better for people to find good items and reactively save, than proactively hoard 08:53:38 dpeg: i think he means it feels... inelegant the way call merchant is set up now? leaving unexplored floors is fiddly, and the jump from "unexplored floor " to "under your feet" is abrupt 08:53:55 oh, also what wheals said 08:54:16 pushing forward is so basic an element of gameplay, it feels weird to me to be punishing it 08:54:18 unless you read a spoilery learndb entry, it's completely inexplicable 08:54:30 anyway, nn 08:54:38 I don't see how gozag is encouraging you to have 4k banked gold 08:54:39 chequers: night 08:55:30 probably lots of unrands could have not-set prices 08:55:45 maybe call merchant should just be call bazaar then 08:55:57 then you go to that floor when you have the gold 08:55:59 or the PRICE: flag could be additive or multiplicative rather than replacing 08:56:04 and bazaars are less likely to be disappointing than a single shop 08:56:07 wheals: I guess I cannot argue with that... I just like that mechanic (but I also like duplication). 08:56:18 -!- ksagri has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:56:18 When playing G, I rarely use any abilities until Lair, then use call merchant 4-7 times in Lair until it starts placing stores in Vaults (which is renarkably fast). I rarely end up using potion petition at all because there's generally one potion I want in any given situation and the only sure way to get it is to drink it 08:56:37 chequers: if you feel like it, send me a mail. I agree that that part of the shops is not good, but I tried to explain that it's not the only (of even main) reason why I wanted Gozag to give shops. 08:56:37 DrKe: that still encourages not exploring levels to leave spaces for bazaars open 08:56:56 well, you would be out of gold 08:57:03 so you would likely have to press on 08:57:24 since bazaars have lots of things you would want to buy at the time you would first be able to buy one 08:57:33 as opposed to say elf or depths bazaar 08:57:44 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:06 what if call merchant was done away with and gozag simply increased bazaar spawnrate by like 400%? 08:58:08 Lasty: hm, I do it differently: I use PP without abandon, buy shop as early as possibly (always at least one within D), and save money so that I can bribe one relevant branch (Snake/Shoals if I am weak, Vaults else). 08:58:35 potions are definitely the best ability if you need the help of a god earlier on, but there are many better gods for that 08:58:37 i think people would complain that they saw 0 bazaars in a game anyway (would probably still happen fairly often) 08:58:49 zxc232: could still have no bazaars, that is not an option 08:58:50 maybe you could somehow guarantee bazaar spawns 08:58:53 but i understand why lasty would play gozag that way since it is more fun to play gozag on a character that could win atheist 08:59:08 without much trouble 08:59:11 I guess you and I have wildly different concepts of "fun". 08:59:12 so you just play atheist except with more shops 08:59:22 I would like to see call merchant in some form stay around? and at the same time, just putting a shop under the player feels uninspired 09:00:13 fun is pretty subjective 09:01:27 I have obtained items from early armour/jewellery shops that made my pre-Lair game noticeably better. 09:01:31 if you could guarantee say 7 bazaars in a regular game 09:01:39 i would like it if that were the norm instead of the exception 09:01:50 for gozag games 09:01:51 well, quality of shops is always a parameter 09:01:58 they have too much rubble, it is true 09:02:07 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:10 (better if they have better stock, but more expensive ==> choices) 09:02:12 i think what im saying is i would like call merchant to be his defining and best ability 09:02:21 !lm * gozag lair.enter x=avg(goldfound) 09:02:32 er 09:02:32 No keyword 'lair.enter' 09:02:33 Sequell can do that? 09:02:37 !lm * gozag br.enter=lair x=avg(goldfound) 09:02:40 2102 milestones for * (gozag br.enter=lair): avg(goldfound)=1947.47 09:02:42 yeah 09:02:45 !lm * gozag br.enter=lair x=avg(gold) 09:02:48 2102 milestones for * (gozag br.enter=lair): avg(gold)=971.36 09:02:55 !lm * !gozag br.enter=lair x=avg(goldfound) 09:02:57 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 09:02:59 303745 milestones for * (!gozag br.enter=lair): avg(goldfound)=612.57 09:03:07 2k is higher than i expected, i guess buying a shop and getting some stuff from it is reasonable 09:03:08 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:14 maybe we should use median because of gold acq 09:03:27 wheals: you don't trust my anecdotal tales? :P 09:03:44 not sure gold acq is common enough to affect the stats 09:03:44 maybe the first shop could be a lot cheaper? 09:03:44 rather, it felt wrong based on my anecdotal tales :P 09:03:44 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:03:45 DrKe: yes, could be 09:04:20 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:24 -!- varmin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:25 however, my gozag game i bought a lot of stuff from shops that i randomly found pre-lair 09:04:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:55 yeah, gozag has a much bigger impact on a game when the d itself spawns good shops 09:04:58 as opposed to you 09:05:08 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:05:10 which is expected 09:05:11 dpeg: I've never had enough money for a pre-lair shop 09:05:39 same 09:05:45 but haven't played that many games tbh 09:05:51 So what I think is this (also really short on time, too much work, sorry): in order to make a gold-centered god work, we need early ways to spend gold (let's say the potions are alright, even if they're thematically the weakest link). Early shops in principle provide a gold sink (on stock), another gold sink (to buy the shop), and access to better-than-average items (this is the appeal). 09:05:51 -!- Kolbur has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:10 dpeg: but I'll grant that you're probably having more fun playing Gozag your way than I am playing Gozag my way. That said, I don't think I can play Gozag your way. 09:06:25 fair enough, I never played a mummy or a felid ever :) 09:06:28 !log . gozag 09:06:29 7. DrKe, XL25 SpIE, T:85048: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/DrKe/morgue-DrKe-20150320-140241.txt 09:06:47 Invok: Call Merchant | | | | 1 | 5 | 2 | 1 | | || 9 09:06:47 Potion Petition | | | | | | | | 1 | 1 || 2 09:06:53 i am officially a lasty type 09:06:58 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:07:16 dpeg: Lasty loves felids, you'll never understand him 09:07:17 <|amethyst> hm 09:07:23 <|amethyst> could split call merchant into two abilities 09:07:28 !banish wheals 09:07:29 Lasty miscasts Banishment. Lasty is cast into the Abyss! 09:07:34 :( 09:07:35 Our choices: How much additional gold the player gets, how expensive the shops are (i.e. how early you can get one), how good they are. 09:07:45 Everything happens to Eeyore 09:07:58 we could go with "first one's free" again 09:08:02 <|amethyst> one to create a tactical shop (consumables etc) under your feet, another to create a strategic shop (equipment etc) past your frontier 09:08:08 My only point about non-instant shop placement is that it can lead to additional decision-making. (I am a sucker for that, and I have realised that I am often alone in this.) 09:08:50 btw, the shop choices (one out of four random types) could also be changed, but I couldn't come up with something better 09:09:02 old item destruction and corrosion could lead to additional decision-making 09:09:22 gozag could have his own hybrid shop types 09:09:23 i was thinking of "gozag offers a choice of shops (or none) on entering a new level" 09:09:24 zxc232: I don't know if you are intentionally disturbing, please explain yourself 09:09:29 wheals: that risks the the first free shop being really good in some games and just useless in others. What about joining G turning the G altar into a very high-priced shop with very high-quality goods? Something to aspire to? Well, that doesn't fix the early game problem... 09:09:37 oh yeah 09:09:37 like consumables, equipment, food 09:09:38 3 types 09:09:45 sort of like with nem decks 09:09:47 or are they old nem decks now 09:09:50 oh, i misread 09:10:06 wheals: first one's free could lead to the same problem as free duplication. 09:10:19 dpeg: maybe, but the shops does close if you leave 09:10:20 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:10:39 wheals: you can pickup something before you go1 09:10:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:11:18 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 09:11:20 yeah, though it would still require putting off a god (and G wrath of course) 09:11:39 still a good point 09:11:43 true, true (if wrath is relevant enough, can do that... perhaps even duplication again) 09:12:49 So I guess delayed shop placement is an attempt to make G shops less like acquirement (look at item, single decision: keep or drop), and more like portal vaults. 09:15:25 that's what i was thinking of with G making an offer to sell you a shop when you enter a new level; it would be a bit like increased shop gen but with more agency, and a bit like straight "put it at your feet" but with a choice to make 09:15:54 dpeg: Well with old item destruction / corr there were more strategic choices to be made regarding gear, branch order. However, item destr and corr were very annoying and this aspect outweighed the benefits. I'm just suggesting that the way call merchant works now may lead to more strategic decisions but this is perhaps outweighed by the finicky usage of call merchant. 09:17:11 wheals: interesting... this would be a nerf? (Could you get shops when there are no new levels left?) 09:17:19 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17:42 i guess there's the question whether merchants are willing to go to Pan :P 09:18:01 wheals: a true merchant would go anywhere there's money to make :) 09:18:11 btw, playing Gozag brings up the annoying Ctrl-F bug, every single time 09:18:26 yeah i looked into that a bit a few days ago and couldn't figure it out 09:18:31 <|amethyst> what bug? 09:18:51 !bug 9195 09:18:51 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9195 09:19:27 But it used to work in the past! Someone broke it!! 09:19:37 !blame 09:19:37 I pronounce dpeg... Guilty! 09:20:32 <|amethyst> hm 09:21:16 <|amethyst> I can't reproduce it 09:21:18 i suspect it's somehow showing a result for both the feature and the items in it 09:21:31 yeah, it's also not immediately reproducible 09:21:39 you can with the saves linked, i assume? 09:22:43 <|amethyst> I can't even load the first one 09:22:49 <|amethyst> it puts me in the help screen when I try 09:23:04 |amethyst: as soon as I have two or three shops, it kicks in for me. 09:23:08 <|amethyst> oh, crawl -name splat works 09:23:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:25:36 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:16 <|amethyst> hm, yeah, the stash menu shows one of those entries having a non-null "stash" member, and the other having a non-null "shop" member 09:33:14 |amethyst: can you fix it? 09:33:40 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:09 -!- carwin has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:34:26 <|amethyst> I don't know what's going on yet 09:42:06 <|amethyst> oh 09:42:27 <|amethyst> hm 09:42:45 <|amethyst> oh, never mind, that was just from the random name generator changing 09:45:03 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:47:06 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:51:03 -!- Kiel97 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:52:12 <|amethyst> ah 09:52:18 <|amethyst> %git e3cf528 09:52:19 07ebering02 {PleasingFungus} * 0.16-a0-2148-ge3cf528: Allow ctrl-f for "runed door" 10(6 months ago, 3 files, 5+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e3cf528e6f3c 09:53:00 <|amethyst> this adds shop features to the stash 09:54:19 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 09:55:38 I cannot say if the bug is older than that... perhaps not? 09:55:47 Thanks for looking into this! 09:56:10 numbers submitted the report on nov 14 09:56:18 commit was put in repo on nov 13 09:57:16 and again, thanks for tracking it down :) 09:57:19 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:59:23 -!- Nuklearni-okurka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:10 <|amethyst> oh, figured out why I couldn't load the one game 10:16:16 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:18:25 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:27:23 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:29:49 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:30:34 <|amethyst> hm 10:30:49 <|amethyst> so there's some logic to sort the saved games menu by XP 10:30:52 <|amethyst> but doesn't seem to work 10:31:00 <|amethyst> I think that explains why it is in reverse order, though 10:31:16 <|amethyst> it was supposed to be by descending XP 10:31:49 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:33:02 <|amethyst> back when XP was stored in the char chunk 10:33:27 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:44 |amethyst: so the bug only occurs once a game is saved? 10:34:00 <|amethyst> no, this is something different that I found on the way to solving the other one 10:34:23 <|amethyst> I've fixed the shop bug I think, but have a few other things I want to finish up before I push it 10:36:57 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42:49 huzzah! 10:47:07 -!- mefis231_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:47 -!- mefis231_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:48:11 -!- mefis231 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:50:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:59:24 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:04:31 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:10 gammafunk: someone called 'miserium', or 'brian' for short, has volunteered to do regular android tiles trunk builds 11:05:29 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-918-g1a4b8f7: Don't try to show an obsolete item field in crawl-gdb.py 10(68 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a4b8f7d0268 11:05:29 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-919-g47d84a0: Don't duplicate shops in stash search (#9165) 10(67 minutes ago, 2 files, 12+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/47d84a0b43b7 11:05:29 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-920-g8908ebf: Don't display help when selecting the 54th save. 10(57 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8908ebf98543 11:05:29 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-921-gd5c8ab6: Make ? work on the title screen. 10(52 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d5c8ab6fffdc 11:05:29 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-922-g3abfa7c: Sort save browser properly. 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3abfa7ca5ab9 11:05:39 PleasingFungus: regular as in nightly? 11:05:46 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:49 the 54th save... 11:05:54 that's the haunted one 11:05:59 gammafunk: "as needed", so probably like... monthly, maybe 11:06:21 ah, well, the thing is I know nothing about said builds, can't even test them yet 11:06:42 |amethyst: <3 thank you! 11:07:09 PleasingFungus: maybe it would be best if he just set up his own page and we could link to it? 11:07:24 <|amethyst> you see, 54 == '?' - NUM_GAME_TYPE 11:07:49 |amethyst: the main menu code is insanely bad. 11:08:09 <|amethyst> a bit :) 11:08:25 does it still have a goto? 11:08:27 <|amethyst> I never knew that saves were supposed to be sorted by XP 11:08:29 <|amethyst> it does 11:09:34 <|amethyst> I didn't want to wrap nearly the whole function in a while loop 11:09:40 <|amethyst> nor make it recursive 11:10:25 <|amethyst> and a while loop wouldn't have even worked 11:10:38 <|amethyst> or at least wouldn't have eliminated the gotos 11:10:38 my testing HaHu^G just died, but I got two shops in (died on D:12) 11:10:47 <|amethyst> because C++ doesn't have multi-level continue 11:11:10 |amethyst: it makes sense to sort games by something like XL or XP. 11:11:21 <|amethyst> dpeg: it does, and now that happens again 11:11:26 good! 11:11:34 <|amethyst> not sure when it last worked, but it must have been at least 3 or 4 years ago 11:11:40 <|amethyst> because I don't remember it ever being different 11:11:47 haha, I guess none of us plays locally anymore? 11:11:58 <|amethyst> I test locally 11:12:11 <|amethyst> or I wouldn't have noticed all those bugs :) 11:12:12 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:12:25 <|amethyst> I also hadn't realised that '?' was *supposed* to show help 11:12:34 <|amethyst> it didn't, but apparently it was supposed to 11:12:37 many thanks for fixing the shop list bug... too bad my little halfling couldn't make use of it anymore :) 11:12:48 !lg dpeg ha 11:12:49 huh, I honestly thought royal jelly wa sa 1-turn food 11:12:49 27. dpeg the Swashbuckler (L12 HaHu of Gozag), mangled by a skeletal warrior (a +0 glaive) on D:13 on 2015-05-04 16:10:16, with 16695 points after 17061 turns and 1:02:58. 11:12:56 I think I'll buff it when I get home 11:13:08 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the reason I didn't was because that makes pizza pointless 11:13:15 <|amethyst> and there were objections to removing pizza 11:13:19 pizza is one turn? 11:13:21 <|amethyst> yes 11:13:21 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:25 hm 11:13:25 well, one solution would be to... but yes, objections 11:13:35 could just replace zig royal jellies with pizzas, then. 11:13:38 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:47 <|amethyst> one of those two food types should go I think 11:13:57 they both have such theme............................. 11:13:59 I vote for pizza 11:14:00 This is a game where we can change the LOS mechanic without any quarrel, but it is impossible to remove pizzas. 11:14:18 dpeg: well, I don't know about without *any* quarrel (: 11:14:25 but yes. pizza is important!!! 11:14:28 by Crawl standards! 11:14:30 <|amethyst> uh-oh 11:14:36 <|amethyst> PF caught doyitis 11:14:38 PleasingFungus: royal jelly at least is an in-game joke, pizza is a joke inherited from Nethack 11:14:40 how much trouble do you want to make for poor twelwe, anyway?? 11:14:44 r e m o v e p i z z a 11:14:46 oh god. the nethack cost. 11:15:07 <|amethyst> if we're going to keep pizza 11:15:18 <|amethyst> we need a vault with a were-rat and three kappa 11:15:20 Witness now: the Great Pizza Wars of 2015 11:15:29 <|amethyst> err 11:15:30 <|amethyst> four kapps 11:15:32 <|amethyst> a 11:15:33 fwiw, I think it's ok to have some items that are strictly worse than others - scimitar's strictly better than long swords, but that doesn't mean we need to remove long swords 11:15:52 <|amethyst> in general, sure 11:16:04 PleasingFungus: this is true, but note that monsters are fighting us with weapons. They don't damage us by taking another bite off their pizza! 11:16:07 <|amethyst> but with food all it does is increase inventory slot usage 11:16:14 mm 11:16:24 well that's why pizza should go, it's less nutrition! 11:16:29 fruit is also strictly worse than pizza for non-fedhasites 11:16:29 +1 11:16:33 which is also realistic as in irl 11:16:34 aka "the great majority of characters" 11:16:36 (to gamma, ofc) 11:16:54 it is easy: remove pizza, add pizza god 11:17:08 finally, the god crawl deserves. 11:17:25 I never knew pizza was 1 turn. I've been playing suboptimally, as usual 11:17:47 gammafunk: obvious piety gain mechanic: sacrifice royal jellies 11:17:49 <|amethyst> and meat rations are better than bread for everybody but spriggans 11:17:54 dpeg: haha 11:18:16 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:18:17 "Thou Shalt Have No Food Before Me. And No Food Behind Me." 11:18:33 PleasingFungus: well pizza is low-turn compared to other foods 11:18:35 <|amethyst> fruit could get a higher herb_mod 11:18:42 ofc, there's more fruit in the game than pizza, and more bread than meat, so generally you can have more nutrition in a stack by using the less-individually-nutritious item. 11:18:54 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it's the same as beef jerky for most 11:18:57 the intricate tradeoffs of crawl's food game... 11:19:02 but not for everyone! 11:19:20 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:19:22 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:19:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: for everyone but spriggans, it's the same or better 11:19:33 gone are the days when different fruit had different nutrition values, as they ought to... this game has become so slack, even Nethack can do it better 11:19:59 <|amethyst> unless there's some way to get herbivorous 1 ? 11:20:10 I'd be fine with removing jerky and pizza if anyone can eat royal jelly 11:20:16 |amethyst: save compat? 11:20:23 gammafunk: everyone can eat royal jellies afaik 11:20:28 Food-wise fruit is completely irrelevant. I think its only meaning that if you find a bunch (especially early on), then Fedhas is more attractive. Which in my book is good enough. 11:20:30 um. except ghouls 11:20:39 I think 11:20:40 PleasingFungus: and mummies 11:20:48 . . .. . . . 11:20:48 and vampires? 11:20:50 well 11:20:52 so basically nobody 11:20:55 <|amethyst> mummies then :P 11:20:57 and djinn?!?! 11:20:57 ghouls can eat jerky and meat rations 11:21:03 which is why I mentioned them 11:21:05 <|amethyst> yeah 11:21:16 the others don't really interact with permafood at all 11:21:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I don't know if it's possible on save transfer either 11:21:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: because we do: 11:21:22 except for vp^fedhas, etc 11:21:28 <|amethyst> you.mutation[MUT_HERBIVOROUS] = you.innate_mutation[MUT_HERBIVOROUS]; 11:21:34 ah. rip 11:22:28 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:22:38 <|amethyst> probably those don't need to be three-level anymore, since levels 1 and 2 don't seem to be possible 11:22:40 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:06 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:30 you'll need to change the code that references them, ofc, since it multiplies by level 11:23:43 <|amethyst> and the values of herb_mod etc 11:23:53 good ol' Herb. 11:23:59 remove the following: pizza, beef jerky, royal jelly, chunks, blood potions, corpses, fruit, bread rations, meat rations, vampires, mummies, ghouls, spriggans, all other species 11:24:50 <|amethyst> I think it's reasonable to keep fruit and beef jerky if we're going to keep both bread and meat rations 11:25:00 yeah 11:25:02 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:25:10 <|amethyst> I'd suggest lowering beef jerky's nutrition to approximately that of fruit 11:25:17 * geekosaur notes that fruit is not really irrelevant since 2 fruit is slightly more than 1 jerky IIRC --- and I use it that way 11:25:21 <|amethyst> but that's only for symmetry 11:25:23 well 11:25:29 it's much rarer than fruit 11:25:37 this is true 11:25:46