00:07:34 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 00:07:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??servers for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic | 0.16 Tournament: http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/ 00:09:27 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:09:27 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 00:10:40 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-870-gcb215c1 (34) 00:10:55 !learn add tiles_reasons 00:10:55 Syntax is: !learn add TERM TEXT or !learn add TERM[n] TEXT 00:15:24 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 00:15:37 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:17:58 -!- Cerepol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:34 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:19:09 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-870-gcb215c1 (34) 00:24:04 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 00:27:25 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:53 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:36:20 -!- Limulus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:43:26 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 00:46:34 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:29 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-870-gcb215c1 00:53:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:54:16 -!- Siveran has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:01:24 -!- speranza has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 01:03:15 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:21 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 01:06:47 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:01 -!- meatpath has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:16 -!- Alazlam has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:08:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:39 is it good cpp to write 10 + true, or should I write 10 + true ? 1 : 0 ? 01:11:14 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:13:44 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14:16 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:16 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 01:16:12 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:19:26 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 01:22:50 -!- Kolbur has joined ##crawl-dev 01:27:26 Where the intent is that true is a variable where it adds 0 or 1 to the 10? 01:27:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:28:25 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:55 like: total = total + coinflip(); 01:29:13 (yes) 01:29:18 Well, that's is probably clearer. 01:29:30 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-855-gcee85c9: Rework Powered By Death. 10(17 hours ago, 7 files, 64+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cee85c9e0a49 01:30:56 I would say that it depends on what you're storing your "coinflip" in, if it's a bool then you should probably not add things to it (even though true and false evaluate to 1 and 0 respectively) 01:31:13 That's probably being overy picky though 01:31:28 Siegurt: it's here: https://github.com/alexjurkiewicz/crawl-ref/commit/cee85c9e0a4941241ba15f2dac4fc5d0ecb7671e#diff-1b64cb2bf32676b27a3859f3d89e831dR1205 01:31:54 Also as an aside "10+true?1:0" needs parens 01:32:06 (+ is higher priority than ?:) 01:33:00 oh really 01:33:26 Yeah, that code would evaluate as (10+true)?1:0 01:33:37 Which is not the intent, I'm sre. 01:33:38 sure 01:34:06 anyway, I found a stackoverflow answer saying bools cast to 0/1 when added to ints 01:34:16 Yeah, you *can* do it. 01:34:23 and it will work properly and all. 01:34:41 (the compiler will whine if you don't do an explicit cast, but it will still work) 01:35:27 But if you want to be *proper* and treat booleans as a really really actually not-integer type (as they are in theory, but never in practice) then you should probably use a ternary 01:35:44 Or just store your results in a numeric type to start with. 01:37:54 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 01:38:22 You could also write a silly little funciton that converted a boolean into an int by way of a switch case, or overload the cast-to-int method of a boolean to do that for you. 01:38:54 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:39:20 (Then you could hide your ternary operator, conditional switch or whatever code you wanted in a cast-as-int operation that looks like it was just casting a boolean as an int, but was in fact secretly just using a conditional to do the same job) 01:39:30 I'm not sure why you would do any of that though. 01:39:39 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-855-g0bcb0fd: Rework Powered By Death. 10(17 hours ago, 7 files, 64+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0bcb0fd3b791 01:40:33 You shouldn't listen to me, I get bad ideas after midnight, and perhaps a little punchy :) 01:41:02 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:26 it's good, i'll leave the short version for now, and change if devs complain 01:46:37 line space is a little restricted so shorter looks nicer IMO 01:48:00 You could always write code like this:http://i.imgur.com/Zn7iMZv.png 01:48:27 -!- paroneayea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:25 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49:46 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-871-gcbde860: Rework Powered By Death. 10(17 hours ago, 7 files, 64+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cbde860a095e 01:55:21 could 02:06:33 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:07:56 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:09:46 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:16:53 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:26 -!- paroneayea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:58 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:20:12 New branch created: pull/16 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/16 02:20:13 03chequers02 07[pull/16] * 0.17-a0-871-g6f5a290: Rework Spiny mutation. 10(18 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6f5a2902751d 02:22:05 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-870-gcb215c1 (34) 02:25:09 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:26:42 !tell elliptic power creep? still crap? you decide! https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/16 02:26:42 chequers: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 02:28:10 -!- anonamenonymous has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:33:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:43:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:53:35 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:40 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:13 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:03:13 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 03:03:36 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:04:37 -!- Insomniak` has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:07:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:56 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 03:08:34 -!- Arkail has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:15:42 -!- anonamenonymous_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:17:22 Developers, i have been sent here to pester you into considering a feature added to DCSS. Anyone of you devs have time to listen to it? :O 03:19:31 better off just explaining the feature 03:20:06 everything here is logged, so somebody will at least see it even if it seems (or is) ignored 03:20:21 ah thanks, ill give it a try: 03:21:14 I'd like to request a feature in which i can add / change something to init.txt so i can make Autoexplore stop on any corpse, even when not worshipping a sacrifice-happy-god like Trog in 0.16. This way i can press 'o' to visit a tile with a corpse instead of manually moving there. 03:21:52 chequers: playing a Ds with current PbD I'm reminded how it encourages staying in bad places; I'd hate to lose that for fixing it with Gozag 03:25:54 anonamenonymous_: it's unlikely anything will be done, because as I said corpse sacrifice is already dead 03:26:38 rchandra: that's a good point 03:27:10 b-b-b-b-ut the code that makes worshipping Trog can be reused for this, can it not? 03:28:15 but why do you want the code, if corpse sacrifice doesn't exist? 03:28:49 so i can move to corpses with 'o' 03:28:54 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:27 but why? the only interaction with corpses now is butchering 03:29:27 what would happen if you put autopickup_exception += corpse ? 03:30:05 its butchering, and animating skeletons right? rchandra ill try it right now 03:30:56 oh yeah, animate skeleton 03:31:03 I could see that being useful with simulacrum, but the better solution would be to fix simulacrum somehow (use chunks from inventory :) ) 03:31:08 rchandra, it didn't work. 03:31:26 or, animate the clostest/random corpse in the area 03:31:33 i've also tried adding X to autopickup, didnt help either 03:31:40 if you want to keep the two-power-level approach 03:31:46 here's my current config http://pastebin.com/TCyb8fwt 03:31:54 two-power-level? 03:32:21 yred's animate skeletons eventually animates everything in los 03:32:36 so you could just do that from the outset, as one alternative 03:33:25 closest for the things you currently have to stand on might be ok 03:34:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:47 so yeah, to recap, i play 0.16 at the moment, and when NOT worshipping trog: 1. my character gets hungry 2. i autoexplore and i find an enemy 3. i kill it, it leaves a corpse 4. i hit autoexplore again 5. now im in africa and the corpse is long gone, i just got even hungrier. 03:35:12 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:18 when i DO worship trog: 4. i hit autoexplore again 5. im on top of the corpse now 6. i eat and am nicely filled up again 03:35:29 we solved the former with autobutcher lua script 03:35:50 i don't want it to autobutcher, i want to hit 'c' myself :P 03:36:23 i think you could open a bug to request better behaviour here, but I'm not sure the solution is pausing on top of every corpse 03:36:38 he wants an rc file option 03:36:40 well the solution could be optional, right? 03:36:43 yeh 03:38:51 speaking of options, I think auto_sacrifice might be obsolete now? 03:39:06 or does Ely still take evil weapons 03:39:16 fedhas would use it 03:39:20 Maybe Beogh still likes Orcs? 03:39:38 oh, the option description says you have to be standing on them, so I thought fedhas' wouldn't apply 03:39:57 think the quote is wrong and it just prays if any corpse is in los 03:39:58 fedhas definitely uses it 03:39:59 when you hit o 03:40:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:12 and its sort of convenient 03:40:16 because who wants to pray anymore 03:40:18 no point 03:40:49 oh beogh likes orc corpses too yeah 03:40:59 i forget about ely and evil weapons 03:42:17 ok so how does one go about filing a bug about this? is there some issues thingy like github for DCSS? 03:42:39 there is, but it really doesn't seem like a bug 03:42:42 ??mantis 03:42:42 mantis[1/2]: To report bugs or submit new content like vaults, patches or tiles, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 03:47:34 -!- Guest21705 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:48:04 thank you, ill try to categorize it properly 03:54:49 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:57:47 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:56 -!- Amy is now known as Guest77316 04:03:06 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:25 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:50 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:41 -!- lessens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:28 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:08:42 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:12:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:12:22 -!- anonamenonymous has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:12:26 -!- anonamenonymous_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:19:52 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 04:31:10 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:32:50 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:36:58 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:43:34 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:23 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:47:42 -!- Inferior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:50:25 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 04:50:30 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:52:38 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:43 -!- namelastname112 has quit [Changing host] 04:55:05 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:02 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:29 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:30 -!- anonamenonymous has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:30 -!- anonamenonymous has quit [Changing host] 05:02:30 -!- anonamenonymous has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:49 Hello guys, i found that the issue tracker wasn't the place to put my suggestion so i put it on the Wiki instead: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:interface:autoexplore (the bottom entry) Hopefully you guys can take a look at it soon! :) 05:04:53 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:07:34 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:14:49 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 05:16:28 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:20 -!- Kolbur has joined ##crawl-dev 05:18:29 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:20:22 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:20:36 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:52 -!- floatRand has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:23:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:25 anonamenonymous: that's definitely a feature that it would be good to have, someone actually made a patch for it in the distant past but unfortunately it got obsoleted really quickly by some other butchery changes iirc so never got updated and merged 05:26:45 :) 0.17 the dream 05:26:46 i think i looked into it briefly and it turned out to be annoyingly fiddly to get working though, it wasn't very easy to repurpose the explore-to-sacrificable-corpses code for some reason 05:26:48 <|amethyst> I was kind of hoping that autopickup_exceptions ^= ^corpse would do it 05:26:48 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:26:55 maybe i'll take another look into it at some point though 05:26:58 <|amethyst> (along with greedy explore) 05:27:00 <|amethyst> but it does not 05:27:20 Great to hear Marvin, good luck :) 05:27:34 <|amethyst> !lm cuckingfunt s=src 05:27:35 301 milestones for cuckingfunt: 301x cao 05:28:30 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:38 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:43 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:50 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:28:53 !tell chequers i think your pbd thing still does "if (pbd_dur > you.duration[DUR_POWERED_BY_DEATH])", which will almost never be true because you.duration[DUR_POWERED_BY_DEATH] has been multiplied by BASELINE_DELAY, and pbd_dur isn't? 05:28:53 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let chequers know. 05:29:01 <|amethyst> !tell rchandra they do now 05:29:01 |amethyst: OK, I'll let rchandra know. 05:30:24 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:31 -!- debo has quit [Client Quit] 05:31:34 yo 05:31:35 chequers: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 05:32:03 MarvinPA: oh, hm, i didn't realise there was a format conversion 05:32:09 not sure i changed that code from the original though 05:32:41 ah heh, yeah 05:33:15 i updated it to support propert decrementnig of strength though, it takes into account variable delay in player-reacts now 05:33:40 but really this is all just tiny tweaks now, I don't think that would have had a huge impact on balance 05:34:11 i saw your gozag deep water change btw -- nice. I ran into that problem in swamp/shoals a few days ago but didn't think of a solution 05:34:28 yeah, it had come up in -dev a while back and i think dpeg suggested that solution 05:34:32 <|amethyst> chequers: btw, instead of that for loop in _decrement_durations, you might want binomial() 05:34:35 btw, your stat drain changes -- what happens when brainless? 05:35:11 <|amethyst> something like pbd_str -= binomial(decrement_rolls, 25); 05:35:17 stupid coding. too much maths! 05:35:29 <|amethyst> or binomial(decrement_rolls, 1, 4) if you don't like percentages :) 05:35:56 i'll defer to your preference, which I assume is the first 05:36:10 <|amethyst> hm\ 05:36:18 <|amethyst> I think I prefer the latter 05:36:26 <|amethyst> percentages are for creatures with 10 fingers 05:36:50 appropriate -- i just rewatched escape from new york 05:37:03 (missing finger in an early scene) 05:37:56 <|amethyst> At one point I saw a student-made film called "Pervert's Quest" (it wasn't porn) 05:38:08 you can say that, but i still won't believe it 05:38:15 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:38:33 <|amethyst> it had the line, in a heavy Appalachian accent, "I know you're the guy who killed my pa, 'cuz you got five fingers on your left hand" 05:39:02 ah, students 05:40:13 pushed that, thanks 05:43:03 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-871-g7c92fbe: Rework Powered By Death. 10(21 hours ago, 7 files, 64+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c92fbeb5f06 05:43:07 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:44:31 -!- namelastname112 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:01 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:45:39 <|amethyst> hm 05:45:39 <|amethyst> oh 05:46:13 <|amethyst> + const int decrement_rolls = (delay / 10) 05:46:14 <|amethyst> + + x_chance_in_y(delay % 10, 10); 05:46:25 <|amethyst> could be just div_rand_round(delay, 10) 05:46:46 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:46:46 <|amethyst> hm 05:47:11 <|amethyst> trying to remember if we already have a scale-by-delay function 05:47:35 bone armour, just above in the file, doesn't 05:47:48 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 05:48:11 -!- n1k is now known as Guest59756 05:50:26 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:24 chequers: re brainlessness, you just have to fight things to cure it now! 05:53:48 i made some changes to stat zero stuff recently too so it's a bit nicer/simpler, it's a normal 1.5* slow instead of a 2* slow-per-stat-zero that stacked on top of other slows, and you don't ever take direct damage from stat drain any more 05:54:51 "just" :PD 05:55:00 heh 05:57:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58:17 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:58:56 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:00:00 -!- elliptic has quit [Client Quit] 06:00:58 quick question by the way: will the mouse unresponsiveness be fixed in 0.17? or is it a nasty bug that will take a bit longer? 06:03:02 for the windows tiles version ofcourse since webtiles has no mouse :P 06:03:20 <|amethyst> it requires a dev who plays local tiles and who knows SDL 06:03:23 <|amethyst> which we don't really have 06:03:47 <|amethyst> gammafunk looked into it a bit 06:04:05 <|amethyst> hm 06:04:11 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:22 <|amethyst> or, actually, gammafunk was looking into the modifier keys getting stuck 06:04:27 <|amethyst> which is maybe related? 06:05:24 <|amethyst> I would recommend dropping local tiles if we can't get that fixed by 0.17 06:05:35 <|amethyst> having two unplayable releases in a row just looks bad 06:05:50 aren't the majority of players offline tiles? 06:06:02 <|amethyst> they were back when offline tiles worked 06:06:24 <|amethyst> I'd guess many of those people chose to downgrade to 0.15 06:07:00 <|amethyst> or maybe are playing without the mouse, and saving and restarting every level 06:08:28 doesnt it work on 64-bit native builds or something 06:10:33 <|amethyst> that was a theory at one point, but I don't know if that was verified 06:11:24 hmm... interesting 06:11:36 guess ill have to learn to play online one day 06:11:46 just can't get used to the -1 travel delay thingy 06:11:50 with the footprints 06:12:01 <|amethyst> you can change that in your rc file 06:12:18 even in webtiles? 06:12:38 <|amethyst> travel_delay = 20 and show_travel_trail = false 06:12:50 nice 06:12:53 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:12:58 i thought it was forced to -1 online 06:13:07 <|amethyst> the default was set to -1 online 06:19:00 -!- paraLogiki has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20:15 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:20:25 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:40 -!- CcS has quit [Client Quit] 06:23:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:27:36 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:27:38 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:47 -!- Orfax has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:28:59 -!- anonamenonymous_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:29:05 -!- anonamenonymous has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:32:20 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 06:35:04 !learn del lasty_to_do[-1 06:35:04 Deleted lasty to do[9/9]: Clean up "In your confused state, you trip and fall through the gate" code (credit rast). Instant rot shouldn't be "rotting away" (credit rchandra). 06:35:16 !learn del lasty_to_do[-2 06:35:17 Deleted lasty to do[7/8]: 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; ranged reform; 06:35:22 oops 06:35:25 !learn del lasty_to_do[-1 06:35:25 Deleted lasty to do[7/7]: Swap and shrink the new Ru sac tiles 06:35:33 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:41 !learn add lasty_to_do 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; ranged reform; 06:35:42 lasty to do[7/7]: 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; ranged reform; 06:35:51 ranged reform? again? 06:36:09 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:34 -!- sfgnmgdf has quit [Client Quit] 06:41:11 <|amethyst> kvaak: the recent "reform" was mostly formula simplification, not a fundamental change to the nature of ranged 06:41:57 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:46:29 -!- Philonous_ is now known as Philonous 06:46:53 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:57:52 kvaak: yeah, I'm looking to change how ranged fits into crawl at a fundamental level 06:58:07 because right now I think it fits poorly 06:58:15 "it doesn't but crawl has to have it because not having it would be weird"? 06:58:20 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:20:50 !hs * explbr=squarelos-0.17 07:20:52 34. elliptic the Spry (L25 DDAs of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-04-29 12:17:44, with 1791858 points after 58823 turns and 4:03:43. 07:21:41 <|amethyst> elliptic: do you think an effect that increases LOS has any place? 07:21:55 <|amethyst> elliptic: since squarelos makes that technically possible 07:22:14 |amethyst: you mean, because radius 8 would still fit on 80x24 viewport? 07:22:18 <|amethyst> yeah 07:22:34 <|amethyst> I was thinking as a weapon/armour drawback 07:22:41 <|amethyst> increased LOS, no increased range 07:23:02 <|amethyst> (randart drawback I mean) 07:23:27 <|amethyst> but I guess it could instead be part of an otherwise positive effect 07:23:46 I'm not sure why it is a drawback 07:23:57 <|amethyst> hm 07:23:57 unless monsters get to attack you at that range 07:24:06 <|amethyst> they'd get to notice you at that range 07:24:12 you'd get to notice them too :) 07:25:10 in general I'm not that fond of effects that change size of LoS... I'm not sure exactly why though 07:25:10 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess you'd have to increase monster spell ranges for that to work 07:25:44 <|amethyst> it's extremely strange that it's symmetrical 07:26:07 7 vs 8 isn't a large enough difference to do much I think regardless 07:26:13 <|amethyst> I mean, given that monsters are stupid when they can't see you, it has to be symmetrical I think 07:27:08 <|amethyst> it would be a 28% increase in visible cells 07:27:23 <|amethyst> but I guess that's only the case if you're in the open 07:27:47 it's also not usually that relevant to have more cells in view 07:27:55 <|amethyst> hm 07:27:58 since most monsters can't attack you from behind other monsters anyway 07:28:32 (and usually you don't have a huge number of monsters in sight near the edge of your view) 07:29:23 <|amethyst> I guess decreasing LOS is more relevant because 1. player/monster spell ranges 2. the smaller the LOS the less likely a monster will be between you and edge-of-LOS monster 07:29:25 <|amethyst> ? 07:30:08 <|amethyst> or do you consider darkness usually irrelevant too? 07:30:31 <|amethyst> oh, I guess it's also that darkness does 8 -> 6, not 8 -> 7 07:30:49 <|amethyst> and you couldn't do 7sq -> 9sq because the latter doesn't fit 07:31:00 <|amethyst> stupid console 07:31:41 -!- vale_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:43 <|amethyst> (though one *could* make the min view height 19 squares and still have room for a decent number of message lines) 07:31:49 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:32:22 <|amethyst> "stupid tinyterm" I should say 07:34:50 |amethyst: I don't think the darkness spell is used much 07:34:56 |amethyst: darkness is considered a spell to benefit stabbers, since there are fewer steath checks vs a monster that have to occur 07:35:15 but yeah second that it's not used much 07:35:16 |amethyst: I do think that permanent effects like nightstalker and robe of night are very relevant on conjurationy characters 07:35:33 <|amethyst> hm 07:35:34 e.g. I've used robe of night + vehumet to get LoS range iron shot 07:36:15 the thing is that the stealth benefit of darkness is only relevant if the monster you are trying to stab is completely in the open 07:37:09 |amethyst: I was actually wondering whether we should let players have a 15-height viewport now 07:37:19 to give more room for messages 07:37:33 <|amethyst> I suppose that's reasonable 07:38:20 I think 17 is a reasonable default though, since being able to see one square out of LoS is nice too 07:38:29 <|amethyst> new crawl UI concept: http://mrnussbaum.com/images/bunkerhill.jpg 07:39:34 <|amethyst> @ sign in the upper left corner, the rest of the screen filled with status windows 07:43:26 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:44:16 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:45:20 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:35 hm, I guess squarelos automatically allowed 15-height viewport, but it doesn't actually give more message rows because of the monster list 07:46:47 need tinyhud I guess 07:47:13 -!- MrGroat has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:08 <|amethyst> Str/Int/Dex could easily go on one line, except for drain 07:51:14 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:51:55 <|amethyst> but with drain that would be ugly even if you did manage to make it fit (e.g. by abbreviating as "S/I/D") 07:52:58 chrisoelmueller was working on a compact hud option but I guess it isn't on mantis 07:53:45 <|amethyst> hm, that reminds me, I don't think the m screen help was updated for fencer's gloves? 07:54:27 <|amethyst> oh, no, it was 07:55:41 hm, why are there two empty lines between quiver and start of mlist 07:56:45 <|amethyst> one is status lights 07:56:49 oh right 07:56:51 <|amethyst> I think the other is just blank 07:56:53 yeah 07:56:56 <|amethyst> I was about to mention that 07:57:07 or maybe you get two rows of status lights if you have enough? 07:57:08 <|amethyst> I mean, having the space is nice when there's room 07:57:11 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:12 <|amethyst> ah 07:57:35 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:42 <|amethyst> hm, no 07:57:48 <|amethyst> ah, yes 07:57:52 yeah 07:57:56 <|amethyst> Xom just wasn't being cooperative enough 07:58:08 <|amethyst> maybe the monster list could grow from the bottom up? 07:58:14 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:16 <|amethyst> (still ordered from top-down) 07:58:35 <|amethyst> then they can take as much space as they need until they collide, in which case status lights win 08:01:41 -!- ir2ivps5 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:01:53 that's a possibility yeah 08:02:09 I found this btw: https://github.com/ChrisOelmueller/crawl-ref/commit/028571f6df74f9e5f624400598cd5b0e2452961f 08:02:49 -!- schisto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:03:09 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 08:03:09 kvaak: yeah, that's pretty much the story. I'd rather not see ranged get removed, but I think it's fairly crummy as things stand. I kinda like crossbows, aside from having to pick up ammo -- them being really slow is a bit interesting to me, though I'm not sure it's enough. 08:03:32 i absolutely loathe crossbows 08:03:41 although i'll admit that's mostly because i've only tried then on a koam 08:03:47 and hexes can die in a fire 08:05:03 haha 08:05:13 Why hexes? 08:05:13 -!- bladedpenguin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:06:04 i'm not fond of a spell school that randomly instakills enemies and randomly does nothing 08:06:10 <|amethyst> elliptic: not sure why he goes back to turns instead of time 08:06:16 <|amethyst> elliptic: I guess for high scores 08:07:13 yeah, I don't like that either 08:07:43 but I do think that some sort of compact hud option might be nice 08:07:45 kvaak: fair nuff 08:07:47 <|amethyst> yeah 08:07:55 <|amethyst> also, amount of rot is probably more important now 08:07:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:08:16 oh, that reminds me - do ghouls still have rot melee? 08:08:23 @?? ghoul 08:08:24 ghoul (05n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 132-163 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 3004(rot), 30 | 07undead, 10doors, 04eats corpses, evil | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 1546 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 08:08:33 <|amethyst> they do not 08:08:48 that explains why I meleed a bunch of ghouls and didn't get any newrot 08:09:00 I'm not sure why ghouls lost rot and necrophages keep it 08:09:04 in fact I didn't get any newrot all game :P 08:09:15 <|amethyst> @??necrophage 08:09:15 necrophage (15n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 19-37 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 804(rot) | 07undead, 10doors, 04eats corpses, evil | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 122 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 08:09:37 <|amethyst> because necrophage melee is otherwise not really dangerous 08:09:43 <|amethyst> %git 679bb4b3 08:09:43 07MarvinPA02 * 0.17-a0-572-g679bb4b: Remove AF_ROT from monster ghouls 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/679bb4b3bf14 08:11:06 That's true. I just don't know that monster ghouls really serve all that much of a purpose -- just another speed 10 brute with some extra vulnerabilities (Fedhas/dispel undead) 08:11:38 Lasty_: yeah, they are fairly diesel but not very interesting 08:12:19 newrot isn't even that scary, since ever drinking !curing or !hw takes care of it. 08:13:05 <|amethyst> but it does decrease the effect of that !curing or !hw 08:13:17 |amethyst: ah, I didn't realize that. 08:13:24 <|amethyst> perhaps the healing-to-rot-repair factor could be tweaked 08:13:26 |amethyst: !curing is mostly about statuses anyway tho 08:13:57 <|amethyst> yeah 08:14:03 <|amethyst> then again, rot is a status so :) 08:14:15 |amethyst: I think the most conservative thing to do with hud to save lines would be to leave the top 4 lines as they are, move SID to the left, and move the stuff in the two lines below SID up to the right side of the three SID lines 08:14:41 <|amethyst> elliptic: could probably merge AC/EV/SH 08:15:07 |amethyst: yup. I guess all I'm saying is that now that rot isn't so painful to remove, it doesn't feel as awful to have it on something like ghouls. 08:15:09 <|amethyst> elliptic: onto one line I mean, maybe two if we want the labels instead of just "Def:" 08:15:19 but :shrug: 08:15:45 |amethyst: yeah, I'm not sure that actually saves much room though 08:16:53 <|amethyst> hm, oh yeah, monster needs lots of fixes 08:17:45 Lasty_: honestly I was always more bothered by the inconsistency with player ghouls 08:19:15 other monster versions of species are also inconsistent I guess (slow mummies) but this feels worse to me because player ghouls do have something to do with rot... but it is a drawback for them, not an advantage! 08:22:05 you could always 78291fy rot 08:22:16 elliptic: fair point 08:22:17 (make it do more things when it gets applied and less things when you're safe) 08:26:24 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:27 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-870-gcb215c1 08:27:29 |amethyst: by the way, are you planning to move monster's repo to the github org? 08:27:36 <|amethyst> at some point, yes 08:27:41 so us mortals can edit it :P 08:27:45 elliptic: I've heard you're a chess monster. Have you ever tried the Penultima variant? 08:27:55 yeah no reason to hurry 08:29:37 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:26 <|amethyst> @??ghoul 08:31:27 ghoul (05n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 132-165 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 30, 30 | 07undead, 10doors, evil, unbreathing | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 1546 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 08:31:29 <|amethyst> @??spider 08:31:30 spider (10s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-29 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 1008(poison:10-20) | web sense | Res: 06magic(10) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 132 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 08:33:11 where is Gretell actually looking? i don't see any new commits on s-z.org 08:35:18 <|amethyst> just pushed them 08:36:33 <|amethyst> wheals: I edited it on CDO :) 08:36:52 <|amethyst> wheals: I used to edit it on s-z.org but since I can't actually compile there to test it... 08:37:02 aha 08:37:05 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:37:12 <|amethyst> no clue why I don't just do that locally 08:37:22 i guess that means you would also be able to change the remote to github when that happens? 08:37:46 <|amethyst> yeah, but I can 08:37:50 <|amethyst> err 08:37:54 <|amethyst> s/but // 08:39:26 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 08:41:12 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:48:25 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:27 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:39 -!- Kolbur has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:49 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:52:45 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 08:54:54 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57:08 -!- Athaboros_work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:59 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:48 -!- MrGroat has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:59:39 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:59:50 -!- Inferior has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00:19 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:53 -!- Kolbur has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:05:54 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:18 commit my patchessss 09:07:22 the small ones 09:07:51 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/16 Rework Spiny mutation 09:07:59 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/14 Remove the +9 bonus EV cap for Mf & Te 09:08:13 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:10:15 <|amethyst> why are you checking 54 and 49 in that commit message? 09:10:48 !calc 54 / 5 09:10:49 10 09:10:56 !calc 53 / 5 09:10:57 10 09:11:32 oh derp 09:11:39 !calc 54 - 9 / 5 09:11:40 53 09:11:45 !calc (54 - 9) / 5 09:11:46 9 09:11:51 !calc (55 - 9) / 5 09:11:52 9 09:12:09 hm 09:12:11 <|amethyst> oh, I see, 40 is where it caps, so 40 + 9 09:12:38 <|amethyst> but for merfolk that only catches the games where they die in water 09:12:46 yes 09:13:38 but given how few Te end with EV over it 09:13:44 i think it's relatively accurate 09:19:08 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 09:27:18 oh, also because mf & te are the same size, they don't really get different amounts of ev 09:28:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:29:37 <|amethyst> for the spiny thing 09:31:00 <|amethyst> does it now do 10.5-22 times as much damage on average as it used to? 09:31:07 <|amethyst> it was bad but I don't think that bad 09:31:37 <|amethyst> err, sorry, calculated backwards 09:32:49 <|amethyst> 16.5 times as much at level 1, 16.2 times as much at level 2, and 14 times as much at level 3 09:33:26 Old spines was terrible past Lair, to the point where it basically didn't exist; it sometimes helped considerably before lair tho. 09:33:32 Esp. if you got 2 ranks early. 09:34:00 <|amethyst> probably there should be some scaling by XL? 09:34:03 getting early ranks now is probably pretty strong 09:34:03 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:35 |amethyst: [mutlevel]d[xl/2], perhaps? 09:35:24 I think I just saw a pretty decent god proposal in the tavern -- the windborne one 09:35:29 <|amethyst> that still seems excessive if it is made to trigger with every hit 09:35:35 <|amethyst> err 09:35:37 <|amethyst> not even hit 09:36:04 Does the damage ignore AC? 09:36:05 <|amethyst> every swing that isn't shield-blocked 09:36:15 <|amethyst> no, it does check AC 09:36:35 @?? adder 09:36:35 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-15 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:4-8) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 09:36:55 i can't remember if it triggers on a miss 09:36:56 1d2 at XL 4 implies that an adder would kill itself after ~10 attacks? 09:37:00 and i suspect i may have made it do so 09:37:02 <|amethyst> wheals: it does 09:37:45 Consider that rank 1 demonic guardian at XL 4 will just outright kill the adder for you, along with most speed 10 monsters 09:38:14 <|amethyst> Lasty_: my concern with your formula is what happens at XL 27 09:38:26 <|amethyst> 4d13 damage on every swing 09:38:34 4d13? I thought it was 3d13 09:38:38 <|amethyst> err 09:38:42 <|amethyst> sorry, 3d13 09:38:56 <|amethyst> was mixing your version and chequers' 09:39:01 note one subtle change I made: it's from one retaliation per monster per turn to one retaliation per attack 09:39:04 rip hydrae 09:39:04 rip 09:39:16 <|amethyst> @??hydra 09:39:16 hydra (09D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 59-89 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 14noxious | XP: 976 | Sz: Big | Int: reptile. 09:39:27 3d13 retaliation - AC against melee monsters that threaten a level 27 character 09:39:30 that was intentionally changed 09:39:32 @?? orb guardian 09:39:32 Orb Guardian (06X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 15 | HP: 63-99 | AC/EV: 13/13 | Dam: 45 | 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown | XP: 2763 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 09:40:01 Expected damage per orb guardian attack is about 13/swing . . . I suppose that's pretty solid 09:40:02 I wanted to make the mechanism simpler to understand, and turn it into straight forward thorn aura 09:40:13 Maybe xl/3 instead? 09:42:08 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:23 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 09:45:02 i didn't play my version much, but level 1 in early game didn't seem ridiculous 09:45:26 if you got level 2 early, yeah orcs kill themselves in a few hits on you, but like lasty said demonic guardian 2 will do the same too 09:45:40 demonic guardian 1 will too 09:45:44 since you can infinitely kite it 09:46:17 right now i think most/all Ds mutations scale with mut level, not xl 09:46:23 and maybe that's a problem 09:46:31 powered by pain scales with XL 09:46:33 maybe Ds should get a third of the muts but they arrive at level 3 09:46:50 and then you can just scale their effectiveness by XL rather than dealing with two scaling axes 09:47:42 <|amethyst> that only works for some facets 09:47:56 <|amethyst> some give you different mutations at the three levels 09:48:44 <|amethyst> and without other adjustments would make scales significantly better for non-demonspawn 09:49:48 well you can still give out non-level 3 versions to non-Ds 09:49:58 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 09:52:04 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:53:56 <|amethyst> !learn edit passive_freeze[1] s/ Works.*// 09:53:56 passive freeze[1/1]: The 3rd level mutation for the tier 3 version of the Demonspawn ice facet. You freeze things that attack you, with the same effects as the spell (slowing cold-blooded creatures). 09:54:26 <|amethyst> by comparison, passive freeze does 1d11 - 1 damage that ignores AC on all hits 09:54:46 <|amethyst> (hits only though) 09:55:10 <|amethyst> and is level 3 of a tier-3 facet (spines is tier-2) 10:01:11 hmm, fair point. 10:01:31 I suppose another possible balancing option would be to have spines deal damage proportional to enemy maxhp 10:02:07 though it'd have to round up to the nearest hp to do anything at low levels 10:02:48 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:11:40 |amethyst: it's fine if spines 3 is somewhat stronger than passive freeze given that you get two other mutations in the ice facet, but I don't think it should be that much stronger 10:12:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:13:11 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Quit: Euph0ria] 10:17:08 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:17:09 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 10:17:45 -!- mumra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:58 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:23:06 -!- Athaboros_work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:47 the numbers in the PR look way overpowered to me if I understand them correctly 10:24:43 -!- Athaboros_work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:51 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:58 you should think about these things as being sort of similar to giving the player slaying 10:25:10 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:39 against a speed 10 monster with 0 AC and 1 attack per round, doing 4d5 damage per attack is already similar to giving the player +24 slaying 10:26:43 it is somewhat worse than that against monsters with AC, but it is also a lot better than that against monsters with multiple attacks per round or against multiple monsters at once, or while the player is doing something other than melee 10:27:11 More like {24 - monsterAC} +Dam. 10:27:22 "with 0 AC" 10:27:48 sorry 10:28:23 But +(big) dam is considerably worse than +(big) slaying 10:28:29 huh? 10:28:41 since slaying also improves attack accuracy 10:28:51 that's pretty minor normally 10:28:53 oh, and the comparison also only works if the player's attack speed is 1.0 10:29:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:29:16 sure, but it also works while the player does things other than melee that monster 10:29:23 elliptic: yeah, something more equivalent to +10 slaying at the 3rd mutation level? 10:29:29 gammafunk: less than that IMO 10:29:39 ??augmentation 10:29:39 augmentation[1/1]: Demonspawn mutation: gives scaling spell power and slaying (both accuracy and damage) bonuses with HP total: bonuses are equal to max(0, ceiling(mutlevel*(2*hp - maxhp)/maxhp))*(0.4*spell power and 4 slaying). 10:29:46 elliptic: I did some extensive sims for a proposed change that would turn !might into a slaying bonus, and the difference can be fairly big against monsters with non-trivial EV 10:29:47 ah 10:29:47 this is extremely strong 10:29:51 probably OP 10:29:54 and mainly for the slaying 10:29:57 and it is tier 3 10:29:58 augmentation is absolutely nuts 10:30:31 -!- Kolbur1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:37 I probably underestimate how strong +4 slaying can be 10:30:46 I'm thinking in my head "half a might pot" 10:31:02 but this never goes away I suppose 10:31:37 4 slaying is worse than half a might potion most of the time, but it's still quite good. +12 slaying is absurd. 10:31:58 well worse, but how much worse 10:32:10 I'm trying to think in terms of a qualitative effect on the game 10:32:20 maybe somewhere in the 3-4 damage per attack on average and only once per round of attacks (doing twice as much damage to monsters with two attacks is really bad IMO) 10:32:43 gammafunk: depends on your weapon and skills. The +5 str from Might is worth about +4 slaying by itself with a +9 great mace at 20 Fighting/M&F 10:33:00 it would be easier to balance if it ignored AC 10:33:10 -!- Kolbur has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:33:14 elliptic: agreed re: ac and better against monsters w/ multiple attacks 10:33:16 Lasty_: oh, str bonus is a thing, yeah 10:33:29 let's say then that it's 1/3 a might pot 10:33:41 +5 str is usually worth more like 2 slaying but yes 10:34:16 elliptic: yeah, most characters aren't wielding a +9 great mace w/ Fighting/M&F at 20. :D 10:34:38 I also think that having a chance to "proc" is better than "proc"ing on every round of attacks because that means less message spam 10:34:48 Lasty_: I'm a +9 great mace w/ Fighting/M&F at 20 in real life, AMA 10:34:56 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:31 gammafunk: . . . where did you go to college, and were there any experiences you had there that shaped your present career? 10:35:59 maybe just taking the current formula for spiny and making the chance to "proc" a flat 1/2 or so would be okay? 10:36:17 and make it ignore AC 10:37:27 * gammafunk is confused by complicated questions and swings himself into a wall in fit of frustration and rage! gammafunk falls from the air. 10:37:52 re: ignoring AC, is this something that creates problems with intuition for the player and/or needs to be documented? 10:38:27 so there's the question of how monster spines work on the player 10:38:49 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:54 yeah, I'm guessing it doesn't ignore ac 10:39:09 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 10:39:32 hell sentinels, porcupines, maybe one of those DS monsters? 10:39:35 Porcupine spines seem fairly nasty to octopodes right now. I'm guessing it checks AC. I think I recall hearing that EV somehow factors in, but that may not be true. 10:39:41 not sure if anything else has spines 10:40:08 looks like current monster spines are 5d4 - 1d(AC) damage, on 1/3 of attacks 10:40:22 EV doesn't matter 10:40:42 and which monster it is doesn't matter either? 10:40:53 Dang, porcupines, way to be as pointy as hell sentinels. 10:41:12 Lasty_: it only matters in that thorn hunters don't take damage from meleeing briar patches 10:41:35 briar patches, who knew 10:41:37 haha 10:41:45 @??briar_patch 10:41:45 briar patch (08P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 10 | HP: 11-20 | AC/EV: 10/0 08(spiny 5d4) | 03plant, amphibious, unbreathing | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 0 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 10:41:55 amphibious, good 10:42:11 I'm gonna drown the briars, now ain't none of that so wrong. 10:42:16 if we wanted spiny to continue checking AC, maybe it could check something less than the full 1dAC 10:42:49 -die per 5 full ac? 10:43:04 eh, was thinking something more like 1d(AC/2) 10:43:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:43:15 but maybe that's not necessary actually, 3d5 is pretty large 10:43:42 A monster needs 18 AC to take 0 damage on average 10:43:49 @??ereshkigal 10:43:49 Ereshkigal (16&) | Spd: 14 | HD: 18 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/30 | Dam: 4013(drain) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 12959 | Sp: b.cold (3d27) [06!sil], silence [06!sil], sum.greater demon [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil], paralyse [06!sil], major healing [06!sil.. 10:43:55 that is not how averages work :P 10:43:59 @??hell sentinel 10:43:59 Hell Sentinel (071) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 123-162 | AC/EV: 25/3 08(spiny 5d4) | Dam: 40, 25 | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2907 | Sp: hellfire (3d20) [06!sil], iron shot (3d33) [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 10:44:15 elliptic: oops, true 10:44:15 unless you want monsters to be healed by spines when their AC roll is higher than the spines roll 10:45:02 fr: healing hyperdermic needle mutation, bunch of needles that inject you with heal wounds juice every time you take damage 10:45:04 how about this: 1/2 chance to proc, (mut+1)d5 - 1dAC damage, only one attack in each round of attacks 10:45:17 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as KOlbur 10:45:21 -!- KOlbur is now known as Kolbur 10:46:12 seems pretty reasonable 10:46:22 mut is [1,3] ? 10:46:25 yes 10:46:26 and not [0,2] 10:46:27 ok 10:46:49 I'd be fine with giving it a shot. 10:47:09 Gozag's golden touch affect my spectral weapon 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9690 by shota 10:47:18 oh good 10:47:27 haha 10:47:35 excellent! 10:47:40 good 10:47:52 I mean, spines will probably always be most noticable when you get it very, very early, and fairly unremarkable at higher levels, in part because by high levels you just don't run into as many dangerous melee foes. 10:47:57 chequers: well done wrt 9690 10:48:24 man, spectral weapon is so good at creating bugs 10:48:30 -!- paroneayea has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:45 Which is to say, dangerous purely melee monsters. Ya know, given that you generally have options about when you fight such things. 10:49:04 is it only spectral weapons, and not other summons? what's special about spectral weap for 9690? 10:49:08 ??lasty_to_do[-1 10:49:08 lasty to do[7/7]: 0.17: do something about spectral weapon; do something about gargoyle being "non-living"; ranged reform; 10:49:35 amalloy: in this particular case I'm not really sure, as it is a summon 10:49:58 I haven't yet figured out what to do about it. The lowest-change approach is to just reduce the damage; a moderate-change approach is to block it from having reaching; a high-change approach is to remove it entirely. :p 10:50:20 I know there are people who'd prefer to keep it in 10:50:29 well removing the dependency on weapon skill is one thing 10:50:49 hrm, I guess even with this, you can use 0-skill weapons to much stronger affect this way? 10:51:22 I guess you could tie it so that it's unusable with low weapon skill but not generally improved by weapon skill, somehow 10:53:56 ? 10:54:20 oh yeah that bug 10:54:28 ruined elf2 for me :D 10:55:16 oh, you got gold instead of weapons? 10:55:25 when the dancing weapons died, I mean 10:55:31 dangit 10:55:33 .moon 10:55:34 36. [2015-04-29 15:01:32] zzxc the Demonologist (L22 TeSu of Sif Muna) entered Lehudib's Moon Base on turn 79861. (Depths:2) 10:55:42 was happening now but I still missed it 10:55:49 .moon -tv:channel=moon:>$ 10:55:50 36. zzxc, XL22 TeSu, T:79861 (milestone) requested for moon: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 10:56:44 elliptic: are you planning to make that changes to the spines mutation or should chequers consider modifying his patch? 10:57:39 Lasty_: what you said about spines not being notable for T3 in the same was as others are is true to the extent that it's not got very apparent or flashy effects 10:57:51 but if it's slay+6 basically that's certainly a strong effect 10:58:45 not even slay+6 but a kind of slay+6 that triggers when you're taking damage, giving you a bonus that you could never get otherwise 10:58:52 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:09 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:59:54 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 11:00:22 gammafunk: I'm committing it now 11:00:25 gammafunk: yeah, if it's effectively +6 slay, I would say it's doing quite a lot. I don't think it's as good as +6 slay, but I could be wrong -- I haven't gotten it since the recent changes. 11:00:26 cool 11:00:41 Lasty_: hrm, you think it's worse than +6 slay? 11:00:47 just because there's no min delay attached? 11:01:19 03elliptic02 07* 0.17-a0-871-g312f747: Buff spiny mutation (chequers). 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/312f7478b7f0 11:01:21 -!- Athaboros_work has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:01:30 I guess it's true that it doesn't scale with weapon delay, but it's probably really good still 11:01:53 Lasty_: also consider that even if it's more like slay+4 in practice, that's slaying that you don't need in an equip slot 11:02:15 gammafunk: it triggers even when you aren't taking damage, btw :P 11:02:23 right 11:04:25 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:34 -!- enygmata has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 11:13:53 .moon -tv:channel=moon:>$:cancel 11:13:54 36. zzxc, XL22 TeSu, T:79861 (milestone) cancel requested for moon: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 11:16:05 -!- raikaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:18:17 _You draw a card... It is Placid Magic. This type of card no longer exists! 11:18:20 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-872-g1dbc7b5: Fix PbD's duration not being extended properly 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1dbc7b591beb 11:18:20 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-873-gc9c78b1: Fix Gozag creating gold from avatars and conjured monsters 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c9c78b1c25cf 11:18:24 robbed... 11:19:49 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24:03 !lm dpeg 11:24:04 10819. [2015-04-29 16:17:42] dpeg the Vandal (L6 HaHu of Gozag) killed the ghost of toxiclajatang the Covered, an average MiFi on turn 3755. (D:4) 11:24:16 title appropriate 11:24:18 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:19 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:34 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:33:28 -!- takedownbig has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:00 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:47 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:47:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:47:56 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:02 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:52:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:53:56 -!- stubblyhead_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:07 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:03:17 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:03:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:26 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:49 -!- stubblyhead has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:46 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:08:25 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:44 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:47 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 12:11:56 gammafunk: I don't think it's as good as slay because unlike +slay it doesn't get better as your weapon speed increases or as you add aux attacks and it doesn't give you +accuracy. In terms of its total impact on your damage, I'd guess that it's about like casting infusion * 2 -- pretty good at early levels and pretty bad later. 12:12:11 or I suppose infusion * mut_level 12:12:28 Lasty_: well I think you'd want to look at fsim to be sure 12:12:37 but yeah it's not the same as slaying, you're right 12:12:38 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:19 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:30 it's not the sexiest ds mutation, but I'm sure you agree that making it do obscene damage isn't the answer to that problem 12:13:36 yeah, agreed 12:15:01 IMO it'd probably work better if it ignored AC, since the damage level would be more consistent, but I'm not all that sure that it's a great mutation to have exist in general. 12:15:41 yeah passive freeze is a thing anyway 12:18:48 right, I'd not be too sad to see it go 12:20:04 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:22:36 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:36 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:24:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-873-gc9c78b1 (34) 12:27:49 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:06 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 12:36:53 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:40:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:10 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:11 The build has errored. (master - 312f747 #2481 : elliptic): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/60559922 12:42:11 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 12:43:22 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:46:57 -!- ly^ has quit [Client Quit] 12:51:07 -!- CacoS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:29 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:56 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:24 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:01:24 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:02:30 -!- Guest59756 is now known as n1k 13:02:32 -!- n1k has quit [Changing host] 13:02:32 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:07 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:04:28 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:38 i was thinking about digging into how mutations work by building a new one. the first thing i thought of was some kind of passive fear effect, like "Your face is horrific to look at" or something. is this a terrible idea? 13:04:54 -!- toenail has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:04:55 probably, yes :P 13:05:05 -!- KiT_ has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:05:09 0.10form 13:05:16 having things run away from you when you're trying to kill them is annoying 13:05:27 as past versions demonstrate, yes! 13:07:35 well plenty of badmuts are annoying 13:09:21 we try to design them initially so that they're not inherently annoying in terms of the effect, or fix the ones that are that way 13:09:26 rather than starting with something annoying 13:10:42 having a badmut is kind of naturally annoying, but that's built into the concept of "permanent mallus that's not easy to fix" 13:10:46 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 13:13:08 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:15:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:15:24 demonic guardian 13:20:03 well what is the minmay plan to fix demonic guardian?! 13:23:44 I'm guessing "remove it" 13:25:43 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 13:26:11 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:33:25 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:49:11 add a "Dismiss demonic guardian" ability 13:49:37 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:49:41 dismiss my guardian, costing a turn, then a new one appears 13:49:56 it would be permanent until disabled :v 13:50:11 basically it supresses the mutation until you undismiss it 13:50:33 i do sorta agree that it can use some sort of rework or just do with a removal. if you are using any sort of ranged option at all then they get in the way very often 13:50:55 ?? demonic guardian unreasons 13:50:55 I don't have a page labeled demonic_guardian_unreasons in my learndb. 13:51:03 ?? demonic guardian[$ 13:51:03 demonic guardian[4/4]: !lg minmay dswr 15 -tv:T42300 13:51:07 maybe if it had some silly fedhas protection it wouldnt be as bad 13:51:33 demonic guardian does prevent the use of some immolation strategies :v 13:51:54 "unbelievable" doesn't begin to describe that ttyrec 13:52:31 dragon's call keeps spawning dragons when only plants are in view - intended behaviour? 13:53:10 -!- dplusplus has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:54:08 no 13:54:15 it shouldn't do that 13:56:52 -!- Tenshin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:04:01 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:02 The build has errored. (master - c9c78b1 #2482 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/60562371 14:04:02 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 14:05:18 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:05:45 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:47 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:07 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:11 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:15:46 Webtiles server stopped. 14:16:00 -!- Lantell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:16 Going down. Starting to migrate. 14:19:50 migrating replays now. 14:19:57 and morgues. 14:22:29 -!- Orfax has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:31:16 -!- treerex5 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:32:31 I can mention that the crawl-storage for CLAN is currently taking up 180 GB 14:32:43 180 GB of replays and morgue-files. 14:32:51 what's going on? 14:33:34 will accounts be preserved? 14:33:38 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 14:33:40 zxc232: everything will be preserved. 14:33:54 I am moving the files to a new and more beefy server. 14:33:59 ah I see 14:34:03 cool as :> 14:34:15 I'll dedicate 8 GB RAM at first. 14:42:57 more beefy...will players find extra meat rations or jerky in their inventory when the resume playing? 14:43:40 -!- paraLogiki has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:16 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:31 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:42 spriggan resume "Yeucch, someone put meat in your pack!" 14:47:36 -!- onrul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:48 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:56:49 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:28 %git 0ef6a7434f9 15:01:29 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-759-g0ef6a74: Refactor and comment monster_habitable_grid. 10(7 days ago, 4 files, 34+ 43-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ef6a7434f9c 15:01:36 i think this is responsible for #9684 15:02:10 in that it removed the thing that allows eldritch tentacles to actually place on malign gateways? 15:02:32 there might be a neater way of fixing it but i'll just add that back in for now 15:07:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-874-g08e05ef: Allow eldritch tentacles to place again (#9684) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/08e05ef33efa 15:07:51 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-875-g69f78fd: Don't make Dragon's Call summon dragons onto firewood (zxc232) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69f78fdc622f 15:12:00 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:02 -!- onrul_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:48 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 15:17:11 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:19:09 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 15:21:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:21:50 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:23:01 -!- CcS_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:35:59 !learn add reserved_clan_names Dragons onto Firewood [gammafunk] 15:35:59 reserved clan names[2/2]: Dragons onto Firewood [gammafunk] 15:37:09 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 15:37:12 good name 15:42:32 -!- Sose has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:46:39 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:32 -!- orionstein has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:50:25 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:43 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:54:21 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:43 -!- nonethousand is now known as Guest35760 15:57:25 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:51 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:59:23 -!- Trevise has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:59:45 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:01 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 16:09:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:12:00 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev] 16:14:58 @??reaper 16:14:58 reaper (152) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 63-90 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 45 | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1481 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:16:16 -!- syndicus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19:47 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:20 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:25:38 -!- Guest35760 is now known as n1k 16:25:40 -!- n1k has quit [Changing host] 16:25:40 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:52 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:59 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:12 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:13 The build passed. (master - 69f78fd #2483 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/60594635 16:31:13 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 16:34:09 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:18 -!- Athaboros_work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:12 is ash's curse scroll conversion somehow affected by the currently cursed/not cursed item slots? 16:36:28 no 16:36:33 it's weighted by race though 16:36:39 (op gets more curse jewellery etc) 16:38:22 i kept getting stacks of 3 curse armour scrolls, that's just dumb 16:38:28 tell me about it 16:39:05 i now have 23 of those... lol 16:39:07 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:41:04 does Fe get only curse jewelry? 16:43:24 yes 16:43:27 -!- debo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:43:36 of course fe also misses out on most ash boosts so 16:45:34 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:46:29 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:52 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:15 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:50 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:54:28 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:54:45 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:03 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Client Quit] 16:55:17 <|amethyst> hm 16:55:34 <|amethyst> has anyone seen Temple appearing on D:9-D:10 in 0.16 (presumably trunk as well)? 16:55:42 <|amethyst> http://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/34br3p/temple_too_deep_in_16/ 16:56:38 !lm * current br.enter=temple s=oplace 16:56:41 33219 milestones for * (current br.enter=temple): 11571x D:4, 8748x D:5, 7112x D:6, 5788x D:7 16:56:51 simon says no 16:57:34 <|amethyst> !lm * cv~~0\.16\. br.enter=temple s=oplace 16:57:35 No milestones for * (cv~~0\.16\. br.enter=temple). 16:57:45 <|amethyst> !lm * !trunk current br.enter=temple s=oplace 16:57:48 20852 milestones for * (!trunk current br.enter=temple): 7297x D:4, 5386x D:5, 4438x D:6, 3731x D:7 16:57:50 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:59 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Client Quit] 16:59:25 -!- MurderMachine has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:00:35 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:55 MarvinPA: yeah it's weird i don't know why the first check in the function doesn't make it work but thanks for doing that 17:02:36 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:33 the first check doesn't actually allow anything to place yet, it just returns false early if it's trying to place a monster somewhere it can't pass 17:03:46 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:50 !lg * killer~~briar 17:03:53 3. andrew the Executioner (L16 HOFi of The Shining One), impaled on a briar patch's spines (created by a thorn hunter) on Swamp:5 on 2014-05-25 03:30:27, with 115534 points after 41815 turns and 5:55:57. 17:03:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:04:01 !lg * killer~~briar s=killer 17:04:01 3 games for * (killer~~briar): 3x a briar patch 17:04:05 rip 17:04:08 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:50 it's definitely weird that it works that way though, yeah 17:08:13 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:08:49 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:13 oh yeah now that i look at it i'm not sure why i thought it would work :P 17:12:55 since gateways aren't its actual habitat 17:14:21 <|amethyst> AT_PORTALPHIBIOUS 17:14:25 <|amethyst> s/AT/HT/ 17:14:51 <|amethyst> The portal snake spits translocational energy at you! 17:16:55 -!- NotKintak has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:46 -!- cojito has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:25:12 -!- Pacra has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:11 -!- raikaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:27:41 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:00 -!- jbenedet1o is now known as jbenedetto 17:32:25 -!- DEFE has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:37:50 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:37:50 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 17:38:21 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:38 |amethyst: https://bpaste.net/raw/203cbf308261 fixes the EV flicker while taking stairs, but I don't know if this is the best fix (though I haven't found any side effects) 17:43:12 (yes, it is really that print_stats() that is causing the flicker, despite being in _prep_input()... because this gets called even if it is in a delay and will return early out of _input()) 17:43:21 <|amethyst> elliptic: hm... I still wonder about travel_delay >= 0 17:43:52 <|amethyst> elliptic: since if you are delaying before each redraw you probably want the stat area to be updated like the map is 17:44:20 <|amethyst> e.g. if one of your durations expires while travelling, and you don't have a force_more on it 17:44:28 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:44:32 oh right, I didn't test that to see how it works 17:44:45 I wonder if we can just check to see whether travel_delay > 0 17:44:48 <|amethyst> hm 17:44:54 <|amethyst> well, there are three different numbers 17:45:04 <|amethyst> travel, explore, and rest 17:45:08 <|amethyst> hm 17:45:12 |amethyst: really I'm not convinced that _prep_input() is supposed to be called at all in a delay though 17:45:59 <|amethyst> elliptic: well, _prep_input is what sets turn_is_over = false etc isn't it? 17:46:24 <|amethyst> and it has check_for_interesting_features() etc 17:47:24 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:53 -!- skilld14 has quit [Client Quit] 17:47:54 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:02 I guess 17:49:12 so it looks like this means the -5 EV will be totally hidden again? 17:49:31 wheals: no, it shows up still if you get a -more- or anything while taking stairs 17:49:51 wheals: my complaint is that currently that part of the screen flickers for a fraction of a second whenever you take stairs 17:49:56 and it is really bugging me 17:49:58 a lot 17:50:03 yes it's very annoying 17:51:04 oh, ok 17:52:42 |amethyst: maybe if travel_delay >= 0 we should call redraw_screen or print_stats or whatever from the same part of the code that checks travel_delay already? in viewwindow 17:53:20 alternatively, we could go with the simple solution I mentioned previously - just remove the 5 EV penalty :P 17:54:01 <|amethyst> what about a function delay_delay_time(delay_type delay) that does something like switch (delay) case DELAY_TRAVEL: return Options.travel_delay; case DELAY_REST: return Options.rest_delay; case DELAY_RUN: if (you.running.is_explore()) return Options.explore_delay; /*fall-through*/ default: return -1; }; 17:54:12 <|amethyst> I'm not sure the explore case is right there 17:54:38 <|amethyst> then you'd check if that returns non-negative (or maybe positive) 17:54:50 <|amethyst> hm 17:55:17 <|amethyst> that could work too 17:55:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:55:42 <|amethyst> or maybe in the delay code itself? 17:56:13 <|amethyst> hm, does viewwindow check rest_delay? 17:56:40 <|amethyst> oh, huh... 17:56:56 <|amethyst> wonder why resting is handled so differently 17:57:18 <|amethyst> _get_running_command has a case to redraw specifically for resting, but only in tiles 17:57:18 yes, I don't understand how this rest_delay code works at all 17:57:37 like, what makes it redraw if rest_delay >= 0 but not if rest_delay == -1? 17:57:41 (in console) 17:57:52 maybe it doesn't work 17:58:06 <|amethyst> I'm not seeing anything at all about that for console 17:58:19 <|amethyst> maybe it hasn't been tested with console? 17:58:31 <|amethyst> USE_TILE is true for webtiles too, right? 17:58:34 <|amethyst> s/true/defined/ 17:58:35 yeah, it doesn't seem to work 17:59:18 <|amethyst> but, yeah, handling that in viewwindow (and the macro case in _prep_input as you suggested) seems reasonable 17:59:51 -!- Sharkman1231 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:52 <|amethyst> possibly the temporal delays could be moved from _get_running_command to viewwindow too? 18:00:05 <|amethyst> oh, no, I guess viewwindow can be called multiple times in a turn 18:00:19 <|amethyst> but _get_running_command only once 18:00:43 <|amethyst> well, viewwindow does seem to be the place to handle the redrawing or lack thereof 18:01:13 <|amethyst> even if the delay() call is somewhere else 18:01:28 <|amethyst> also, it's really annoying to talk about these two different things called 'delay' at the same time :P 18:01:45 I guess run_dont_draw in viewwindow() needs to also check for resting and rest_delay? 18:02:21 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:54 <|amethyst> that would be my guess 18:03:18 <|amethyst> (maybe rename DELAY_* to PENDING_* or PENDACT_* ?) 18:03:35 <|amethyst> (alternatively, rename delay() to pause()) 18:04:03 -!- panicbit has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:04:10 oh, no, rest_delay = -1 does somehow work currently 18:04:19 I didn't realize the default wasn't -1 and that I didn't have it set to -1 in my rc 18:05:11 <|amethyst> it has a default of 0 so you can watch yourself healing 18:05:20 <|amethyst> offline that is 18:05:23 <|amethyst> it's -1 online 18:05:32 DELAY_* is an inaccurate name for some of the stuff that uses it 18:05:59 <|amethyst> wheals: yeah, it's really "pending action" or "multiturn action" 18:06:15 MULTITURN_ sounds good though it's a bit fast 18:06:17 |amethyst: right, I mean that I was testing offline and setting it to -1 does seem to work 18:06:19 er 18:06:20 long 18:06:21 not fast 18:06:30 I don't understand how though 18:06:44 <|amethyst> elliptic: this is a genuine ascii build and not webtiles? 18:06:53 <|amethyst> wheals: what about just PEND_ if you want brevity? 18:06:54 yes 18:07:00 <|amethyst> wheals: or MTURN_ 18:07:29 oh 18:07:45 maybe it is working because of the change I made to _prep_input? 18:07:51 this is very confusing 18:09:11 oh, maybe I just can't reliably tell whether it is working or not because it is too fast 18:09:37 <|amethyst> elliptic: what terminal are you using 18:09:38 <|amethyst> ? 18:10:03 xterm 18:10:13 <|amethyst> maybe you should try something fancier and slower? :) 18:10:35 start up a couple dozen qw processes in the background 18:11:19 <|amethyst> tmux has rate limiting it looks like? 18:11:52 <|amethyst> though not very easy to control, since it's based on the number of control sequences it sees 18:12:11 okay yeah it isn't working, verified by slowing it down by resting a lot on a level with jiyva :P 18:12:40 oplop (L11 GrVM) ASSERT(_valid()) in 'ray.cc' at line 194 failed. (Lab) 18:12:43 I think that what happened was that I did &G in my test game and then that level had really really fast resting suddenly 18:17:15 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:22 -!- Kolbur has left ##crawl-dev 18:20:54 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:28 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:00 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:30:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:31:17 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:43:49 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:36 |amethyst: well, I wasn't able to get anything fancier to work, but what about just doing this: https://bpaste.net/raw/fe89792b96b2 18:47:21 (I was having problems with resting not updating HP when interrupted by a monster and stuff like that) 18:48:48 -!- schistosoma has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:27 .phyte 19:02:36 4. Farquar the Fighter (L16 DsAs of Dithmenos), slain by a thorn hunter on Swamp:2 (nicolae_swamp_phyte_club) on 2015-04-22 19:55:28, with 121370 points after 43896 turns and 5:48:31. 19:12:24 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:12:24 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 19:12:46 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:58 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:21:00 <|amethyst> elliptic: hm, doesn't show it during a force_more on "You climb"... but adding a print_stats in message_window::more() appears to work 19:21:20 <|amethyst> elliptic: that might trigger currently-hidden crashes more often though 19:21:31 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:23:33 <|amethyst> elliptic: OTOH, they're things that would crash already if you resize the window (sending CK_REDRAW) at the -more- prompt 19:24:03 <|amethyst> at least in tiles... looks like console doesn't send CK_REDRAW 19:25:03 <|amethyst> I guess I'll commit it and see if we get any new crashes... at least this way those things will crash online and not just in local tiles 19:29:44 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:34:48 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:37:22 1tell ontoclasm [crawl is] like Diablo with fun turn-based combat and without grind, good visuals and sounds. 19:37:43 -!- Arkail is now known as Siveran 19:37:52 -!- Ontamu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:02 fr: actually remove grind :( 19:38:38 !tell gammafunk If you want to cast a wide range of spells, it's hard to beat the elf races: dark elf and high elf. 19:38:38 wheals: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 19:38:49 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:17 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:39:20 actually this poster is recommending HE^Sif, i guess it's just a gammafunk sockpuppet 19:39:25 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 19:40:04 probably i shouldn't be ironically thanking this 19:42:07 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 19:44:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-876-g9764396: Don't redraw stats during a stair delay (elliptic) 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9764396f2e59 19:44:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-877-ga10078a: Remove excess indentation. 10(4 minutes ago, 16 files, 33+ 32-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a10078a1eec4 19:46:01 Siveran (L27 VSAE) (Depths:5) 19:47:32 -!- coyo7e has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:51:52 |amethyst: that was fast 19:52:32 !crashlog * 19:52:33 11189. Siveran, XL27 VSAE, T:73295 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Siveran/crash-Siveran-20150430-004551.txt 19:52:48 wheals: you will not find me wasting my precious summoning time with dark elves. they have neither the incredible magic apts nor the amazing, gorgeous long blonde hair necessary to get the fastest runes as an elite summoner imo 19:52:49 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:53:13 dark elves make pretty good beastfighters though 19:53:19 ??hulk 19:53:20 I don't have a page labeled hulk in my learndb. 19:53:23 ?/hulk 19:53:24 Matching terms (1): rotting_hulk; entries (2): plague_shambler[1]: Replacement for rotting hulks in 0.13. Speed 10, stronger, more hp, inflict a Retching status that blocks food/potions, and on death spawns a cloud of miasma that spreads one tile per 10 aut. Gone in 0.15. | twelwe[1]: THE HULK CANNOT EQUIP ARMOUR. THE HULK NEVER STOPS BEING THE HULK, BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO PROGRAM. 19:53:38 I guess rip bearkiin 19:53:41 *bearkin 19:53:53 beastfighters == BF? 19:53:54 that crash seems to have involved a yaktaur with bolts of penetration firing through a ball lightning 19:54:04 oh yeah that's a popular crash 19:54:13 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 37.0.2/20150415140819]] 19:54:30 heh, nothing like a popular crash 19:55:13 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:23 plague shamblers have been gone for that long? 19:56:59 -!- Sovek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:18 <|amethyst> yeah, we've seen that one before 19:57:24 <|amethyst> this happened with ranged rewrite 19:57:36 <|amethyst> I think 19:58:18 <|amethyst> because now it needs to look up the firer's weapon to initialise the attack 19:58:25 <|amethyst> whereas previously there wasn't an attack 19:58:47 <|amethyst> (the yaktaur killed itself with that explosion) 19:59:44 -!- kazimuth has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:02:15 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:03 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:04:24 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:03 thanks elliptic 20:08:48 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:08:58 -!- quik has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:09:25 <|amethyst> oh 20:09:35 <|amethyst> actually, I think it broke with midification 20:09:40 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-871-g9650b35: Rework Powered By Death. 10(11 hours ago, 7 files, 62+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9650b3558306 20:10:29 <|amethyst> because before that the agent (stored by mindex) was a dead monster, but now it's a null pointer, because the dead creature is already gone from the mid cache 20:11:09 -!- newplayer has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:12 <|amethyst> *but* before that there was the possibility that that mindex would have been reused 20:11:21 <|amethyst> resulting in weirdness and possibly different crashes 20:11:29 <|amethyst> just much rarer 20:11:38 -!- enygmata has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 20:11:50 ??0.15 20:11:50 I don't have a page labeled 0.15 in my learndb. 20:12:14 <|amethyst> I think a solution would be to keep around dead monsters in the mid cache, and to avoid reusing their mindexes, until some sequence point like the end of the turn 20:12:31 <|amethyst> but that might cause problems when the monster array is nearly full 20:13:13 <|amethyst> (not that we couldn't stand to expand it) 20:13:37 ?/squish 20:13:38 Matching entries (3): deep_troll_shaman[1] | trivia[19] | yaktaur_captain[2] 20:13:45 ??trivia[19] 20:13:46 trivia[19/27]: // Not a single habitable place left on the level. Possible in a Zig // or if a paranoid player covers a small Trove with summons. mpr("There is some commotion, and a hidden mimic gets squished!"); if (item) destroy_item(*item, true); 20:14:02 ??yaktaur captain[2 20:14:03 yaktaur captain[2/2]: Squishier characters beware! Seeing a yaktaur is often a sign that a yaktaur captain and the rest of the pack are around. 20:14:15 squish 20:14:23 (was thinking the hidden mimic thing might be applicable...) 20:14:36 <|amethyst> I think that's a different situation 20:14:44 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-878-g86124bc: Rework Powered By Death. 10(12 hours ago, 7 files, 62+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/86124bc0bd4e 20:14:46 -!- jmr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:56 yeh 20:14:57 <|amethyst> as it says, lack of a floor space rather than lack of a monster slot 20:14:58 elliptic: thanks for fixing that pbd bug, updated my pull 20:15:08 out of space in the level, not a then nonexistent mid cache 20:15:14 |amethyst: was that whitespace commit something that could be added to checkwhite, or did it have too many false positives to be done automatically? 20:15:18 (I think nonexistent?) 20:15:30 <|amethyst> wheals: too many false positives 20:15:50 same with the brace-on-same-line one the other day, too? 20:15:51 <|amethyst> wheals: probably it could be done if you use more careful regexes than I did 20:16:02 <|amethyst> (and not-really-regexes) 20:16:12 <|amethyst> wheals: you mean while (...); ? 20:16:18 <|amethyst> wheals: the problem with that one is do-while 20:16:43 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:16:47 %git :/ix formatting 20:16:47 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-843-g68b4579: Fix formatting. 10(3 days ago, 4 files, 12+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/68b457935c88 20:16:59 <|amethyst> aha 20:16:59 brace, not semicolon 20:17:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:37 <|amethyst> that one could be automated easily I think if you restrict it to control structures 20:17:56 <|amethyst> and check for balanced parentheses 20:18:42 "The bonus 20:18:43 was strongest at the end of a fight which wasn't very interesting." 20:18:51 this is still true in the new system 20:18:53 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:13 <|amethyst> false positives were lambdas (where we haven't really settled on a brace convention), nested struct initializers, and foo = { 20:19:19 -!- jmr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:38 <|amethyst> arguably foo = { and lambdas should have a newline anyway 20:20:47 oh yeah, lambdas are still the wild west :P 20:20:55 what the heck even is a lambda 20:21:00 <|amethyst> I think the nested structs in question are that way to make big tables more concise 20:21:04 <|amethyst> nicolae-: a function without a name 20:21:08 gammafunk: yes, but I think it's less true since the strength degrades faster than corpse decay now 20:21:16 it comes after a kappa 20:21:30 <|amethyst> why don't we have kappas anyway? 20:21:37 <|amethyst> they could go in the Tengu branch 20:21:42 <|amethyst> or maybe the Japan-themed branch 20:22:00 chequers: the PbD fix was marvinpa I think 20:22:00 why would you have a function without a name in c 20:22:02 !learn set coding_conventions https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/coding_conventions.txt 20:22:03 coding conventions[1/1]: https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/docs/develop/coding_conventions.txt 20:22:12 nicolae-: because some other function asks you to pass it a function pointer 20:22:18 oops 20:22:23 i get you two confused 20:22:31 (good devs I don't speak with much) 20:22:49 <|amethyst> nicolae-: and either 1. you don't want to bother creating and naming a function that is going to be used in just this one place 20:22:51 also because lambdas can be closures 20:23:19 <|amethyst> nicolae-: or 2. you need the function to see a local variable in the current function (the closure thing amalloy mentions) 20:24:08 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:12 a bunch of the coding conventions aren't used much, but at least we do admit it (except for // - Member variables get a prefix.) 20:24:23 ah, i see 20:24:25 if you are interested in further reading, javascript is the most mainstream language that uses lambdas/closures, so there's a lot of introductory material in javascript 20:26:06 <|amethyst> that's only because javascript is the most mainstream language period :) 20:27:03 noted! 20:27:04 thank you 20:27:05 well, sure 20:27:07 <|amethyst> Python, Perl, most everything since 1990 has closures, though admittedly Python's *anonymous* closures are silly because of Python syntax 20:27:40 <|amethyst> Javascript uses them a *lot* more though 20:28:28 <|amethyst> (arguably in part because of deficiencies in the language, such as needing a function to create a scope) 20:29:08 |amethyst: i read somewhere that some ultra-modern (possibly still upcoming?) version of javascript/ecmascript has let! 20:29:27 <|amethyst> It's like the Python 3 of javascript :) 20:29:42 hah, probably so 20:29:57 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:19 <|amethyst> (I teach Python 3... sometimes it's surprising how far students manage to get in the class before realising that they have Python 2 installed) 20:31:34 <|amethyst> (usually they notice when they try to call print with more than one argument, but sometimes they just "fix" that by removing the parentheses, then *we* notice when their program doesn't pass a syntax check) 20:32:04 ah, computer science classes 20:32:05 |amethyst: java didn't have closures when it was first introduced, and that was in 1996! it only got "closures" like last year, in java 8, but i'm willing to count the inner/local classes from 1997 as closures 20:32:26 <|amethyst> yeah, "since 1990" was an exaggeration :) 20:32:30 i'm glad i have the programming knowledge but i'm also real glad i don't have to program for a grade or pay anymore 20:32:37 <|amethyst> "since 2000" might be more accurate 20:32:58 <|amethyst> Java was the transitional period between the 1980s and 2000s :) 20:32:59 what about C11 :P 20:33:31 <|amethyst> :P 20:34:18 and, technically, C++03 (though it was basically finished before 2000 so you get a free pass!!) 20:34:35 java is still widely used though, it seems to me 20:34:51 gammafunk: so's C 20:34:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: so are cobol and fortran in some places 20:35:04 that's a bad response to that statement imo 20:35:17 I mean in terms of professional programming usage 20:35:17 <|amethyst> I mean in terms of language design 20:35:26 right I won't say anything about that 20:35:34 you just said java from 1980s to 2000s 20:35:40 I thought you meant that it's no longer used much 20:35:45 maybe that's not what you mean 20:35:46 <|amethyst> no, not at all 20:36:29 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:36:38 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:40 <|amethyst> it looks like a language of the 80s (C++ etc) that was cautiously dipping its toes into what would be more or less expected in the 2000s 20:36:55 not that i'd want to program in java, based on what I've seen, but there sure are lots and lots of jobs that want java programmers 20:37:02 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:03 The build has errored. (master - a10078a #2484 : Neil Moore): http://travis-ci.org/crawl/crawl/builds/60628039 20:37:03 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 20:37:07 <|amethyst> Java is the language of Enterprise 20:37:11 yeah 20:37:18 <|amethyst> which is why I compared it to cobol first :) 20:37:23 they still used java in the future? 20:37:37 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:37:37 nicolae-: he didn't say The Next Generation! 20:37:52 it's like...the old Scotty of languages 20:37:52 gammafunk, even enterprise is in the future 20:37:57 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:05 yeah but it's like the old Tribble episode 20:38:08 that's what he meants 20:38:23 ah, i see 20:38:29 there's so much i don't know about computer trends 20:38:40 <|amethyst> Java makes me think more of _Brazil_ than Star Trek 20:38:56 -!- driftwood has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:01 <|amethyst> it keeps the bureaucracy running smoothly 20:39:02 -!- toenail has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:39:05 dang 20:39:25 |amethyst: what are your "three languages every good programmer should know"? 20:39:43 english is a big one 20:39:48 stawp 20:39:55 I only know grunt_lang 20:40:05 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 20:40:24 <|amethyst> hm, three 20:41:10 I think stroustrup said "C++, Java, and any modern scripting language" when asked the same 20:41:22 and |amethyst is the crawl equivalent of stroustrup 20:41:25 <|amethyst> C, Lisp (Common or Scheme or Clojure, your choice), some modern dynamic language (Python, Perl, Ruby, even JS) 20:41:38 fair enough 20:41:45 <|amethyst> C++ would do in place of C, as long as you learn the C parts of C++ 20:41:52 <|amethyst> bit diddling etc 20:42:00 Shell, Python and nothing. That's all you need! 20:42:22 <|amethyst> if you're going to use Unix, then shell is probably fourth even though it's a terrible terrible language to program in 20:42:26 that's the quote that rings in my head every time I read a chequers commit 20:42:40 braces are stupid 20:42:56 yeah using unix without knowing any shell programming ends up being the the saddest thing 20:43:07 <|amethyst> chequers: you should look at the original bourne shell source code sometime 20:43:14 almost as sad as programming in shell 20:43:23 the one that implements its own memory manager? 20:43:27 er, even sadder i guess 20:43:40 <|amethyst> Stephen Bourne believed strongly that each control structure should have its own delimiter 20:43:54 oh yes, I remember when you posted this before 20:43:58 <|amethyst> (as in bourne shell: if ... fi, do ... done) 20:43:59 crazy macroes 20:44:02 <|amethyst> yeah 20:44:04 *macros 20:44:21 <|amethyst> he used macros to make the source look kind of like sh/algol/whatever 20:44:42 no thanks, reading the source would require reading more old person languages like C 20:45:04 I still don't have the rules for when do I need what kind of newline for a bash for loop 20:45:16 "is do on the same line? the next line? maybe if I add a semicolon?" 20:45:18 i guess at least you didn't write crawl in m4 20:45:29 shell programming is something i have to use occasionally at work, i just do what the internet tells me and then things work 20:45:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: need a semicolon or newline before the do, not after 20:45:34 bourne shell doesn't do its own memory management any more 20:46:13 and then do doesn't need any kind of newline I assume? 20:46:22 that went away with the port to 68000 (the brk() and resume trick didn't work there) 20:46:29 for x ; do y ; z ; done 20:46:33 right 20:46:34 <|amethyst> geekosaur: in the AT&T era I guess? 20:47:02 <|amethyst> shell works best if you think of it not as a programming language 20:47:05 still bell labs as opposed to the commercial side, I think 20:47:13 <|amethyst> and instead as a multi-stage macro processor 20:47:23 <|amethyst> ah 20:47:29 is shell like make then?!?! 20:47:45 <|amethyst> more like make than like C, yeah 20:47:54 <|amethyst> with less logic programming 20:48:41 <|amethyst> there's a reason Posix calls the steps "expansion" and not "evaluation" 20:49:27 -!- Crawl_Bacchus has quit [Quit: Look what I got, Bart, a Tickle-Me Krusty doll!] 20:50:26 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:51:51 <|amethyst> Maybe the default "modern scripting language" should be R 20:52:15 <|amethyst> or maybe I work with scientists too much 20:54:07 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:17 possibly. 20:58:43 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59:43 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:07:37 -!- driftwood has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:10:20 -!- vale_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:10:53 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:47 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:14:54 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:16 |amethyst: you mean scheme? 21:23:55 <|amethyst> no, that falls under "Lisp", not "modern scripting language" 21:24:02 <|amethyst> :) 21:24:11 back in the day, I wrote my shell scripts in haskell 21:24:39 <|amethyst> *computer scientists* should definitely learn ML or Haskell or such 21:24:53 <|amethyst> not sure I would say all programmers need to 21:34:27 -!- eb has quit [] 21:35:47 Two staircases out of the dungeon 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9691 by Xentronium 21:36:00 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:37:39 -!- henriqueleng has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:38:39 isn't that an allowed exception if an arrival vault places multiple stairs 21:39:29 i think i've also seen a staircase out not in an arrival vault 21:39:33 at all 21:39:43 in addition to the one in the arrival vault 21:40:09 i vaguely recall some discussion during the branches-get-one-stairs change that it was okay if the main dungeon occasionally had multiple stairs out because it's not like you can come back 21:41:49 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:38 -!- ir2ivps5 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:07 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:54 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:51:59 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:10 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 21:52:18 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:49 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:54:19 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:55:27 |amethyst: There are some string manipulations I could do faster in R than in python 21:55:46 maybe that's just given how much I use python for that, so it's less swapped in 21:56:02 but being a vector-driven language has its advantages 22:03:34 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:04 !hs * explbr=squarelos-0.17 22:08:06 40. elliptic the Spry (L25 DDAs of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-04-29 12:17:44, with 1791858 points after 58823 turns and 4:03:43. 22:12:22 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:29 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:11 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:17:37 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:18:50 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:37 -!- Athaboros_work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:08 -!- Amy is now known as Guest2642 22:26:58 -!- Guest77316 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:28:04 -!- halberd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:14 -!- Athaboros has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:29:58 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:31:31 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-878-g32f3aa5: Rework Powered By Death. 10(14 hours ago, 7 files, 63+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/32f3aa5a1438 22:31:54 someone merge this before i tweak it any more 22:34:31 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:36:29 did MPA or elliptic comment on this change? 22:37:01 both generally positive 22:39:02 one_chance_in(10-pbd_str, 10) should be one_chance_in(10 - pbd_str, 10), not terribly important, but for future reference on any formulas 22:40:07 ok 22:40:23 <|amethyst> I might omit spaces in a bigger formula to reinforce precedence 22:40:26 <|amethyst> 2*x + 1 22:41:00 <|amethyst> of course that just leads to someone doing 2 * x+1 and being sad 22:41:10 -!- skilld14 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:50 man, I wish we could see column numbers in github 22:42:59 guess that's kind of hard to do 22:43:32 a few things go over 80 22:43:58 heh, "PbD duration is handled above, search for DUR_POWERED_BY_DEATH." 22:44:00 actually i think nothing, i "fixed" the overage by mangling a variable name 22:44:07 yeah... 22:44:39 i didn't want to interrupt the nice flow of decrementing durations with my decrementing-strength logic, but maybe those two things should be combined? 22:44:40 no I was wondering if some wrapped thing I saw as actually in need of wrapping 22:44:54 it probbably is over 80 char though 22:45:18 chequers: no I mean more the request of "search for foo" 22:45:44 yeah 22:46:05 I guess that's no different when someone says "see foo" in a comment 22:47:00 hrm 22:47:08 const int decrement_rolls = (delay / 10) 22:47:09 + + x_chance_in_y(delay % 10, 10); 22:47:26 |amethyst: to turn a delay into a number of rolls, is this probably the best way to do this? 22:47:38 he was wondering that himself, I think 22:47:39 seems like random_div 22:48:07 <|amethyst> const int decrement_rolls = div_rand_round(delay, 10); 22:48:10 yes thanks 22:48:15 div_rand_round is what I meants 22:48:40 chequers: that function is basically exactly for this purpose 22:49:02 aha 22:49:04 er, that was terribly phrased on my part, but div_rand_round is what you want there 22:49:59 fixed 22:50:51 ha ha, you missed a dumb mistake 22:51:10 wait, what? 22:51:27 mon-death.cc:2587:13: error: no matching function for call to 'one_chance_in' 22:51:49 oh 22:52:02 should be x_chance_in_y 22:52:08 no 22:52:10 there's 22:52:16 !function one_in_a_million 22:52:17 Can't find one_in_a_million. 22:52:19 or something 22:52:22 yes, but I want x_chance_in_y 22:52:35 oh well 22:52:39 in that case, yeah 22:52:50 !function million 22:52:51 Can't find million. 22:52:56 !source million 22:52:57 Can't find million. 22:52:58 <|amethyst> !function one_chance_in 22:52:59 1/2. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/random.cc#l320 22:53:12 ah, am I crazy or was that a function at one point 22:53:17 <|amethyst> (int a_million) 22:53:20 yesss 22:53:21 right 22:53:37 see that's why you don't make cute variable names! 22:53:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:53:45 people remember the cute variable name and not the function name 22:55:02 and then poor programemrs (or is it "programemrs") from languages where functions have only one signature get really confused by error messages 22:55:11 <|amethyst> constexpr int a_million() { return 64 * 125 * 125; } 22:57:18 shouldn't it be one in 1048576? 22:57:42 <|amethyst> int a_milbion 22:59:06 btw, do you two have any opinion about breaking godabil.cc up into one source file per god? 23:01:22 that sounds pretty excessive 23:01:40 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.17-a0-877-ga10078a (34) 23:02:08 I guess it's not totally unreasonable; not sure how else you could break up said file 23:02:24 maybe it's just me but dealing with a 6k line file was a major pain 23:02:33 yeah it just would create an awful lot of files 23:02:58 aren't there already an awful lot? :P 23:03:12 godabil-a_i.cc godabil-j_r.cc godabil-s_1.cc >.> 23:04:19 I guess you might as well break up every god source file in this case 23:04:27 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:37 src/god/abil/ru.cc src/god/passive/gozag.cc 23:06:22 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:38 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:12:04 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:12 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:18:36 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:20:21 gammafunk: any other feedback? I'll update the commit with your other changes if not 23:20:37 yeah I need to finish looking to see if numbers/effects are sane, sorry 23:20:41 got distracted 23:21:56 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:36 hrm 23:22:38 ??regen 23:22:38 regeneration[1/8]: Increases the rate at which you regain HP per turn, at the expense of more nutrition. Different sources stack and vary in effectiveness. The default hunger rate for most races is 3 nutrition per turn. A ring (amulet in 0.16+) of regeneration takes that to 6 per turn. Regeneration doesn't work when you're {sick}; instead it makes Sickness disappear faster. 23:22:48 ??regen[2 23:22:49 regeneration[2/8]: The base regeneration rate is your maximum hitpoints / 3. If this number is over 20, then divide the result by two and add ten. For example, 100 max health results in a regen rate of 26. RR accumulates every turn and for every 100 RR you gain, you regenerate 1 hp. For 1 hp per turn, 540 health is needed. For 1 hp per 2 turns, 240. 23:23:00 ??regen[3 23:23:01 regeneration[3/8]: An amulet or troll leather armour adds 40 to your rr, player mutation 20 per level, and the status effect (spell) 100. What this means is that an amulet of regen or troll leather armour effectively doubles your healing rate (or better) for most characters. 23:23:35 -!- aarujn has quit [Quit: aarujn] 23:24:18 -!- skilld14 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:24:19 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:10 old pbd = +100 rr per corpse. I find in early game as a mibe or something it's rare to break 3 stacks 23:26:23 whereas previously I'd finish a fight against orc band with 4+ 23:31:42 -!- filthy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39:46 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 23:42:52 -!- Nobuharu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:42:52 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:45:46 -!- Sharkman1231 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:02 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 23:47:11 -!- copt has quit [] 23:47:30 03chequers02 07[pull/15] * 0.17-a0-878-g8039a82: Rework Powered By Death. 10(15 hours ago, 7 files, 62+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8039a82f4054 23:50:09 !source shop 23:50:10 1/6. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/shops.des#l76 23:51:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:59 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:52:19 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:37 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:01 !source _pick_an_altar 23:54:01 1/1. https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dungeon.cc#l172 23:54:08 why does this function treat nemelex specially?