00:00:07 <|amethyst> I guess ontoclasm is maths 00:00:17 ebering: I can pretend to be both a dev and a mathematician instead of just a dev, if that's your thing 00:00:37 Stable (0.16) branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16.1-2-g95b8d4c 00:01:00 <|amethyst> bh does bioinformatics 00:01:05 gamma too! 00:01:14 some kinda math I think 00:01:28 <|amethyst> (I do bioinformatics mostly myself) 00:01:36 <|amethyst> (but teach intro CS) 00:02:45 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16.1-2-g95b8d4c 00:03:03 so is cszo broken 00:03:38 <|amethyst> Lightli: broken how? 00:03:45 nm just lag 00:03:53 people are playing on it right at this moment 00:04:34 !lm DenpaOtoko x=urune 00:04:35 13224. [2015-03-24 05:03:05] [urune=15] DenpaOtoko the Conqueror (L27 MiBe of Makhleb) left the Realm of Zot on turn 31325. (Zot:1) 00:04:47 03PleasingFungus02 07[acqreform] * 0.17-a0-131-g06ee417: Fix acquirement filtering of unusable armour types 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=06ee417704ca 00:04:50 h m m m 00:04:58 cwz is still running bugged 0.16 00:05:09 and not much we can do about that 00:05:16 !lm DenpaOtoko x=urune,vlong 00:05:17 13224. [2015-03-24 05:03:05] [urune=15;vlong=0.16.0-4-g7e54fe0] DenpaOtoko the Conqueror (L27 MiBe of Makhleb) left the Realm of Zot on turn 31325. (Zot:1) 00:05:37 you mean the double damage bug? 00:05:38 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-131-ga9cda9c (34) 00:05:52 that's pretty unfortunate 00:05:54 (in retrospect that might explain how my TrCK 1-shot a pan lord) 00:06:09 fr: for any future officials servers we incorporate, we make the admin sign a blood oath that they'll give us a reliable means of contact 00:06:23 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:06:39 UGH STOP CALLING IT DOUBLE DAMAGE BUG!!! AC WAS CHECKED TWICE, IT CLEARLY WAS NOT STRICTLY DOUBLE DAMAGE!!! 00:07:17 <|amethyst> post-AC damage was exactly doubled 00:07:24 191% damage bug 00:07:37 <|amethyst> call it the "infusion not working" bug 00:07:48 call it performance art! 00:08:18 0.16: the great annihilating bug 00:08:42 <|amethyst> ANNIHILATED! 00:08:43 Did fixing the double damage bug break hit messages? All of my dagger stabs have been producing just "You hit the foo!!!!" 00:09:02 <|amethyst> FLOCCINAUCINIHILIPLIFICATED! 00:09:09 <|amethyst> s/PLI/PILI/ 00:09:49 who yall rooting for on dancing with the stars this season? 00:10:55 <|amethyst> Aldebaran 00:11:06 <|amethyst> or maybe Fomalhaut 00:14:32 -!- dooper has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:14:39 03PleasingFungus02 07[acqreform] * 0.17-a0-132-ge5c597f: Re-allow Xom to gift useless items 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 87+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5c597ff1622 00:14:39 03PleasingFungus02 07[acqreform] * 0.17-a0-133-geb1d4be: Add some acquirement debug messages 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eb1d4be1b140 00:14:55 well, someone made a korean translation of my wordpress post: http://nethack.byus.net/gnu4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=board&wr_id=103264 00:15:00 it turns out that xom couldn't actually gift useless armour or weapons through acquirement, before 00:15:04 but we still haven't heard from hong 00:15:11 it got squashed in a secret hidden code branch 00:15:40 so now idk how much sense that silly 80-line-function makes 00:15:52 possibly it can go mysteriously missing before the branch gets merged into master 00:15:57 opinions welcomed 00:16:12 gammafunk: I appreciate that they didn't translate "centuryplayer" or "winscumming" 00:16:20 also I appreciate that you included "winscumming" in the post 00:16:42 PleasingFungus: tbh my text google translates from korean better than your commit message did 00:17:01 hm, more reports of ascii badness 00:17:03 er 00:17:05 *android badness 00:17:06 I didn't read the post so I'm going to read it translated from korean 00:17:17 n1k: pls report back with your findings 00:17:19 Truesilver How haedoyi property For example, because you do not give a penance for the use of weapons does not appear to CONTAM properties and crafts camp hatred anymore because of confusion 00:17:24 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:17:25 PleasingFungus, ok 00:17:26 I mean PleasingFungus what exactly where you trying to say there 00:17:40 It's really impossible to say. 00:17:44 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 00:18:01 this...is actually quite clear 00:18:10 n1k: until you get to the PleasingFungus commit! 00:18:12 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:18:35 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:19:10 regarding |amethyst 00:19:11 This bug introduces developers to unauthorized cross, and we've been trying to track him down. Report if you see this man, close centuryplayer him. Do not approach him, he was a very winscumming eavesdropping 00:19:16 I go fixing all these terrible bugs, and these are the thanks I get...? 00:19:49 I will always give you thanks 00:19:53 until nap.kin removes thanks 00:20:21 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:25 "I've found that 0.16 defaults to putting the saves and morgue into subdirectories of crawl (so C:\games\crawl\saves and C:\games\crawl\morgue for me) while I remember 0.15 storing them somewhere under the user profile (C:\Users\DrStalker\AppData\Local\crawl or some such)" 00:20:32 we probably shouldn't be doing that first thing... 00:20:57 I like that stasis translates as "congestion" 00:21:47 <|amethyst> the tile versions under downloads aren't installers 00:21:53 <|amethyst> maybe this person used an installer before 00:21:53 PleasingFungus: hrm, that may be due the fact that he's using a zip over installer yea 00:22:09 but the zips shouldn't be doing that either, I guess 00:22:17 <|amethyst> well 00:22:23 I think the problem is that crawl doesn't know where to put them otherwise 00:22:27 <|amethyst> that's what you'd want to do for a "portable" install 00:22:39 <|amethyst> e.g. something you can just unzip onto a USB stick and take with you 00:22:51 |amethyst: oh sorry, I was reading this as 00:22:56 c:\games\crawl a hardcoded path 00:23:00 <|amethyst> ah 00:23:02 but that's his extraction dir? 00:23:07 we should probably offer an installer again 00:23:08 <|amethyst> I imagine, yes 00:23:10 in that case yes, that's what we'd want, I agree 00:23:15 <|amethyst> We do have an installer for trunk 00:23:26 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you have a CDO account, right? 00:23:29 yes 00:24:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: see source/mingw32/crawl/update.sh 00:24:02 |amethyst: why do you ask, though? 00:24:34 could someone confirm that 32 and 64-bit builds for windows are needed, btw? 00:24:34 |amethyst: are you telling me that so I can see how to make the installer (which I know how to do), or? 00:24:54 <|amethyst> well, so you saw which flags CDO trunk builds use 00:25:21 <|amethyst> but it's nothing terribly exciting I see 00:25:38 I didn't make the installer since I wasn't sure it's useful, fwiw 00:25:48 <|amethyst> ah 00:25:53 since how many people want to install both versions, but I guess the use of registry is good? 00:25:57 I'm not sure tbh 00:26:12 but yeah it's just a make target and it works fine 00:26:16 <|amethyst> yeah, I think installer is better if you use more than one account 00:26:25 I did them for 0.16.0 but didn't link them on new download page 00:28:02 I see that nap.kin just makes the 32-bit versions of amd64 00:28:42 but |amethyst pointed out that someone had a performance issue with this version, I guess it's something I should look into 00:28:47 <|amethyst> well 00:28:52 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:29:06 <|amethyst> someone suggested, I don't remember where, that the compatibility layer might be a performance problem 00:29:12 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:20 <|amethyst> I have no idea whether that's true, but I figured it's worth investigating 00:29:33 <|amethyst> then again, I think someone mentioned the mouse lag problem on Linux too? 00:29:57 yeah, I use the "pure" 32-bit target and then the 64-bit target of amd64 00:30:04 yay, it's compiling with MinGW & Win-Build now. 00:30:15 wheals has a 32-bit system, so clearly we need 32-bit support 00:30:45 in that there are people out there using 32-bit systems to run crawl 00:30:49 Wow, something I posted on Reddit got reposted here... I feel like I've contributed now. :-) 00:32:28 +|amethyst: it's entirely possible I used an installer for 0.15, for the 0.16 builds I've just downloaded and unzipped (dev builds and later the 0.16 release) 00:32:40 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:32:42 And always the tiles version. 00:36:04 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:37:19 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:37:35 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37:44 DrStalker: glad you got it working, we've had difficulty making those instructions easy for people to understand 00:38:29 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:31 I should try to figure out which of those win-builds packages can be disabled 00:43:45 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:30 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:31 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 00:52:11 Hello qoala! 00:52:31 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 00:52:36 !tell grunt have you seen: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9569 00:52:36 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 00:54:29 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:54:45 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 00:56:24 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:05:34 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 01:06:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:37 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:13:08 -!- psuedo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:26 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:15:46 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:08 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 01:17:20 -!- Umbreoni is now known as FaMott 01:18:37 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:07 -!- jackrogers has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:19:40 -!- Rauc has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:54 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:31:47 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:26 -!- angelichorsey has left ##crawl-dev 01:42:29 Seriously would haste causing Exhaustion be a better solution than the current contam buildup mechanic? ...I see at worst it being effectively the same (everyone rests off the Exh/Contam outside of battle); but at best, it also completely prevents repeated casting instead of just punishing it. 01:44:19 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 01:45:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:18 all haste sources? 01:45:27 might be--though PF said he had some ideas about changing contam? I'd like to hear what he is proposing 01:45:56 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:10 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:54:39 i don't think needing to rest off exh is much different ahn needing to rest off contam 01:54:46 it's pretty rare people chain hastes together, isn't it? 01:54:59 I mean, outside a zig 01:56:07 chaining hastes isn't something one does every time but I wouldn't say it's especially rare either 01:56:48 especially towards the end of the game 01:58:37 maybe haste shouldn't exist. dealing with !str/int/dex and swiftness isn't as problematic 01:59:13 -!- grisha5 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:01:19 -!- ythm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:04:08 that is also a good option 02:04:20 Removing haste is defacto a buff to the Speed Brand (IE make it more important not actually more powerful). 02:05:05 is it? 02:05:41 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:57 Speed and Haste don't stack well (same with Quick Blades and weapons with a Min-Delay of 5). 02:08:08 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:09:03 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:10:05 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:26 that is completely untrue 02:18:35 there is literally no case in the game where that is true 02:18:45 speed and haste stack perfectly 02:19:37 speed and *finesse*, or quick blades and finesse, can hit the delay limit, but speed and haste work the same in all combinations on all weapons now 02:19:51 also haste and finesse don't stack 02:19:59 sadly :( 02:20:07 and even when weapons with odd min delay were screwed up with speed, it had absolutely nothing to do with haste 02:20:57 exh probably does work better than contam for buffs but that's not saying very much 02:21:46 does cancellation clear exh? 02:21:52 or just slow? 02:22:09 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16.1-2-g95b8d4c 02:22:18 i suppose if you are playing version 0.7 or earlier then haste and speed or haste and quick blades can hit the delay limit 02:22:18 ??exh 02:22:18 exhausted[1/1]: Status obtained after berserking, casting Death's Door or using Ru's abilities. You can't use any of them until it wears off. Isn't removed by Potion of Cancellation. 02:22:21 answer ^ 02:22:49 TAS_2012v: I meant for !cmd, but ty anyway :) 02:22:53 (ty) 02:23:23 so exh would certainly prevent chain hasting. 02:23:42 chain hasting doesn't really happen a lot outside of orb run 02:23:52 and orb run isn't really a thing that matters 02:24:34 my understanding is that contam isnt there to prevent chain haste/invis but to prevent haste/invis while exploring 02:24:58 ah ok 02:25:12 exh would work just as well for that of course 02:27:58 for what it's worth, i'm pretty certain that you can chain 2 potion hastes with no danger, so the idea clearly isn't "no chain hasting ever" (not that "no chain hasting ever" would necessarily be a bad change) 02:31:18 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:31:45 Using Exh would be a pretty substantial nerf to DDoor and Haste...preventing that Charms combo (each is pretty broken seperately without allowing that combo though) 02:34:35 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-131-ga9cda9c (34) 02:35:17 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:06 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:54 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:44:16 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:44:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:46:36 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:23 -!- rockit has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:26 -!- rockit_ is now known as rockit 02:48:03 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:48:18 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:48:34 -!- ___miek has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:49:32 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 02:49:58 -!- foophykins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:57:08 ??wrath of trog 02:57:08 wrath of trog[1/1]: A +8 antimagic battleaxe, makes you go berserk (50% of the time!) when you attack. Not to be confused with {trog wrath}, a far more terrifying phenomenon. Trog won't ever gift it (but Okawaru can). 02:57:18 Really? Why? [the last part] 02:57:55 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:58:53 probably a specific trog exclusion more than an okawaru inclusion 02:59:30 hey devs, I wanted to mention, the tourney has led to near-tripling of games on CPO, so well done on the great new version, Australasia is appreciating it :D 02:59:45 Too powerful to combine that with Trog's passive Berserk buff? 03:03:39 it's because flavor 03:03:43 (Trog lost it) 03:08:31 -!- Spatzist has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:09:47 lmfao...that's cute; but no unspoiled player will know this. 03:10:12 -!- TastyLemonDrops has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:14 I like that flavor a lot 03:10:48 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:13 http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/176/345/ALOT2.png 03:11:43 is there a way to get only the messages since last turn in rc lua? 03:12:17 I think it's clear_messages = true 03:12:24 lemme see 03:12:28 &rc n1000 03:12:29 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.16/n1000.rc 03:12:48 -!- rubycowgames has quit [] 03:12:49 yeah, no lua needed. Try that and see if it's what you want 03:14:26 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:14:49 hmmm, seems to be! thanks, I interpreted that setting to mean that the messages won't be displayed any more, not that the buffer for accessing them would be cleared. 03:15:04 < Bcadren> lmfao...that's cute; but no unspoiled player will know this. <-- does that matter? 03:17:31 chequers from a practical design perspective; flavour that the player will never see is wasted development time. 03:20:49 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:22:31 "This was the favourite weapon of the old god Trog, before it was lost." 03:22:54 writing a sentence is not a whole lot of dev time :P 03:23:00 -!- ly^ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:55 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:24:05 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:04 Were gods once demigods that ascended? haha 03:25:46 unfortunately, setting clear_messages to true doesn't do what I want after all... the game is incredibly slow now, and I'm getting lua out of memory errors. to be clearer on the context: I simply do newmessages = crawl.messages(999), then newmessages:find("something") in ready() to keep track of what's happening, and I'd like newmessages to actually contain new messages. 03:26:04 -!- Zappman123 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:26:43 If a troll sacrifices skill...does he have -6 SplCast? or does it stick to -5, since that's the minimum? 03:29:22 hmm... 03:31:40 Just a thought, there's a lot of talk of cTele, cBlink and Haste being too powerful for the 'avoid hell lord; steal rune' potential (and general no-brainer buffness of haste); but it never can be agreed to remove these...what if they were moved to a god that had some really bad conduct? [thought incomplete.] *trails off* 03:40:33 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:43:08 -!- Reihar has left ##crawl-dev 03:46:37 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:46:44 -!- giann has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:55:11 -!- ScioMin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:30 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:58:55 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:33 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:02:34 why not just mark hell lord levels -ctele? 04:03:36 they are 04:03:52 until you get the rune 04:12:09 Pan levels aren't. 04:12:29 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:43 hehe. I've still done the cTele rune grabbing BS. I know how easy it is if you know what you are doing. 04:15:41 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:17:41 Especially since all the rune levels are...fixed. 04:19:54 It's like the 'Tomb becomes easier once you've done it once' problem; only...so many dozen times worse. 04:25:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:34 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:33:30 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:14 -!- rockit has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0/20150220131007]] 04:42:50 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:45:17 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 04:50:57 -!- tstbtto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:52:25 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:55:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 04:57:23 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:02:15 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:05:04 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:16:16 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:19:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:28:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:28 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:33:30 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:41:29 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:52:05 !tell Grunt gw is stuck in a loop 05:52:06 magicpoints: OK, I'll let grunt know. 05:52:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:54:32 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 06:06:09 -!- kober has quit [Client Quit] 06:16:47 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:00 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:22:24 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:01 -!- CcS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:23 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:30:54 -!- DrStalker_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:43 -!- DrStalker has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:33:41 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:43:48 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45:57 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:46:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:00 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:39 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:09 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:16:00 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:32 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:31:30 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:55 gw is stuck in a loop? how? 07:36:59 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:38:16 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:09 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:41:57 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:42:01 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:43:42 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:43:52 Soulgrinders 07:47:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:01:31 -!- ark__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:07:04 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:57 Loadlibrairy failed with error 126 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9574 by Rainbow 08:18:44 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:19:01 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:21:26 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 08:29:13 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:30:48 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:33:59 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:38:41 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:42:32 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:49:06 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 08:49:06 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:53:08 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:47 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:07:45 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:28 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:19:22 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:19:41 -!- Kolbur has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:20:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:25:23 -!- tehtscho has joined ##crawl-dev 09:25:33 hey hi 09:25:57 can i drop a tiny suggestion here? 09:26:09 well i do it anyway 09:26:28 could you reform sticks to snakes? 09:26:38 it shouldt require holding arrows 09:26:50 using the quivered item should be enough 09:27:06 its just too much fiddling around with wear arrow 09:27:21 and unwielding again for unarmed combat 09:27:52 even more since there isnt a key for switching to unarmed like there is from a to b 09:28:14 the spell used to work on some weapons too 09:28:37 but since thats gone there isnt really a good reason to have to wield arrows 09:28:40 so thats it 09:28:55 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:29:27 tehtscho - 09:29:58 the button to switch to wielding nothing is - 09:32:08 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:37 would be more reasonable to just use arrows from the inventory 09:33:41 i just mean compared to switch weapons 09:33:53 where you can insta switch on keypress 09:34:30 yes, we agree with you 09:34:30 well using the arrows from the inventory would be nice too 09:35:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:35:07 i kinda heard the devs wanted to reduce the fiddling around some stuff 09:35:25 maybe this kind of fiddling^^ 09:35:57 in general we try to avoid giving gameplay effects to what is quivered 09:36:32 since changing your quiver is an instant action 09:36:36 i guess the question would be whether to give priority to do javelins or branded arrows first 09:37:09 well transmuters will most likely not care much what will be turned into snakes 09:37:23 certainly changing sticks to snakes to not require wielding would be good (or we could just remove the spell, as has been suggested) 09:40:12 well the spell is a nice gimmick nonetheless^^ 09:41:05 and quivering takes more keypresses than switching weapons 09:41:27 but you wont switch that often the quivered weapon 09:41:32 well atleast i dont ^^ 09:41:32 elliptic: once StS no longer requires arrows, it's a just "summon snakes" 09:41:51 which seems like it should be summoning and > L2 09:42:05 Lasty_: he said remove the spells, not the arrows 09:42:23 Oh, ah 09:42:26 Lasty_: nobody said anything about making it not require arrows 09:42:32 I misunderstood 09:42:44 Lasty_: arguably it is already "summon snakes" though :P 09:42:44 well if you are worried about switching quiver not requireing time 09:42:52 elliptic: yeah, and it's arguably already too good 09:42:56 just add a penalty for the spell 09:43:09 Lasty_: and Tm really doesn't need it 09:43:13 yup 09:43:33 tehtscho: it isn't about that, it's that quiver is meant to be purely an interface thing for making ranged combat less annoying 09:44:17 well i have a complicated idea^^ 09:44:35 tehtscho: and it would be weird to make sticks to snake use the quiver for rare characters like crossbow hunters who find sticks to snakes early 09:44:35 you could generate an item for your inventory 09:44:37 ^^ 09:45:32 well i dont have a solution 8( 09:45:32 sticks to sticks?? 09:45:40 snakes in a pocket^^ 09:49:48 my suggestion if people want to keep sticks to snakes as a L2 spell for Tm (who doesn't need it) would be to make it only work on plain arrows and automatically take them from your inventory and not produce any particularly powerful snakes (probably just ball python and adder) 09:50:31 well i kinda use it mostly early 09:50:41 kinda when i cant kill even an adder 09:50:59 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:51:02 right, it would still be the same as current sticks to snakes early 09:51:02 and dont yet am able to do spider form 09:51:21 it just wouldn't scale in weird ways with different ingredients 09:51:38 wasnt fan of that anyway 09:51:44 ^^ 09:52:03 filled the pockets 09:56:22 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:52 -!- Napcat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:02:06 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 10:07:07 -!- twelwe has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:29 new spell: pocket snake 10:08:42 Lol 10:08:54 definitely sounds better if you don't have to wield them 10:09:01 dammit someone already made my sticks to sticks joke 10:09:56 -!- nikheizen has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 10:10:23 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:11:37 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12:45 -!- Kolbur1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:13:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:13:59 -!- DEFE has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-132-ga3e609d: Remove mutation-checking functionality from you_tran_can_wear. 10(24 hours ago, 5 files, 27+ 76-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3e609df9b5a 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-133-geb87abb: Have you_can_wear take an equipment_slot rather than int. 10(21 hours ago, 7 files, 24+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eb87abbd7ef2 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-134-gcb5519f: Make you_can_wear use can_wear_armour. 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 66+ 98-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cb5519f81fb5 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-135-g21d34bd: Remove the item_def version of you_tran_can_wear. 10(21 hours ago, 5 files, 7+ 39-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21d34bde3cde 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-136-g698e7e2: Inline. 10(21 hours ago, 3 files, 2+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=698e7e2f3446 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-137-gf1f3296: Make you_can_wear return a maybe_bool. 10(20 hours ago, 13 files, 63+ 61-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1f3296036af 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-138-g42eaaf8: Remove you_tran_can_wear. 10(19 hours ago, 6 files, 35+ 66-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=42eaaf8c7db2 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-139-g85f429d: Remove some unnecessary functions. 10(18 hours ago, 9 files, 23+ 83-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=85f429d3322c 10:15:05 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-140-g944bdb4: Make you_can_wear(EQ_WEAPON) more robust. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=944bdb4c302d 10:15:34 Tm needs s2s more than any other BG 10:15:41 except Wr. maybe. 10:15:47 mo? 10:16:33 and Mo I guess but it's just Tm without spells anyway 10:17:45 -!- Alarkh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:30 !tell pleasingfungus should i handle the merge or do you want to? 10:18:30 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 10:18:53 ??cigotuvi's embrace 10:18:53 Cigotuvi's Embrace[1/4]: L5 Necro. Turns corpses in LOS into AC/SH. Decays over time, and you may lose a point when you get hit or block an attack; more likely if you have more corpses, less likely with higher spellpower. 10:18:58 ??cigotuvi's embrace[2 10:18:59 Cigotuvi's Embrace[2/4]: You get one point of AC/SH for every three skeletons or 1.5 corpses you scoop up (but as long as the spell is active, you always have at least one). do !source player::maybe_degrade_bone_armour and scroll up a few lines for bits-fall-off odds. 10:19:24 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:00 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:21:35 -!- Grujah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:23:18 -!- Kolbur has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:08 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 10:24:30 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:25:48 btw is the dragon form transmutation really usefull? 10:26:28 when i checked the spell in the wiki 10:26:35 its not really appealing 10:27:06 try ##crawl 10:27:07 depends, assuming you kill things with a combination of uc and tmut most races are better off with BH 10:27:10 also that 10:27:36 well BH is very strong 10:27:51 and you still keep your armor enchants 10:35:45 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:55 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:40:44 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:44:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:48 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:45:21 !tell PleasingFungus I just found the crawlcode twitter feed and I love it, thanks. 10:45:22 TAS_2012v: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 10:46:34 ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 10:47:03 %git 944bdb4 10:47:03 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-140-g944bdb4: Make you_can_wear(EQ_WEAPON) more robust. 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=944bdb4c302d 10:47:42 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:47:44 same bot code running TrCKs on v0.16.0 with/without meleebug: 10:47:46 !lg ew char=trck v=0.16.0 s=xl o=xl meleebug 10:47:47 1293 games for ew (char=trck v=0.16.0 meleebug): 2x 12, 21x 11, 88x 10, 148x 9, 185x 8, 182x 7, 174x 6, 176x 5, 149x 4, 120x 3, 36x 2, 12x 1 10:47:49 !lg ew char=trck v=0.16.0 s=xl o=xl !meleebug 10:47:50 1170 games for ew (char=trck v=0.16.0 !meleebug): 11, 15x 10, 36x 9, 78x 8, 158x 7, 184x 6, 216x 5, 249x 4, 167x 3, 55x 2, 11x 1 10:47:53 ouch 10:49:31 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 10:49:42 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:43 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:53 ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9575 by geekosaur 10:56:52 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:58:51 -!- domiryuu has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:31 !hs gw t !meleebug 11:00:32 419. gw the Bludgeoner (L13 MiBe of Trog), slain by a giant frog on Lair:7 (dpeg_slime_entry_enclosed_altar) on 2015-03-23 15:15:57, with 37030 points after 23368 turns and 0:27:29. 11:02:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:04 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:08:12 -!- Kolbur has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:10:55 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:11:46 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:13:44 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:21:01 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:22:52 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:24:16 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:46 -!- Mandevil has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:18 -!- Kolbur1 is now known as Kolbur 11:29:33 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:29:43 -!- lpe672 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:33:47 -!- napcat has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:34:01 it has done better locally without meleebug (and not with 1000s of games, I probably made some change worsening its tactics) 11:35:08 or rather improved not-getting-stuck while paying with getting-high-scores 11:39:34 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:39:39 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:34 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:43:35 -!- Melum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:44:29 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:42 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:48:45 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:51:02 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:52:56 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:54:45 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 11:54:53 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:55:22 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:18 -!- domiryuu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:18 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:30 !tell n1k I don't remember having any fancy ideas for changing contam, sorry 12:00:30 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let n1k know. 12:00:58 oh, that cigo's entry is wrong 12:01:29 !tell wheals I'm fine dealing with the rebase, though I'm very disappointed with you for merging in a major refactor before the tourney's over :) 12:01:30 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 12:02:48 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16.1-2-g95b8d4c 12:03:23 !learn s cigotuvi's_embrace[2 You get ((power / 100) + 0.5) * (# of corpses) AC & SH. (That is, between 0.5 and 1.5 AC+SH per corpse.) do !source player::maybe_degrade_bone_armour and scroll up a few lines for bits-fall-off odds. 12:03:24 Cigotuvi's Embrace[2/4]: You get ((power / 100) + 0.5) * (# of corpses) AC & SH. (That is, between 0.5 and 1.5 AC+SH per corpse.) do !source player::maybe_degrade_bone_armour and scroll up a few lines for bits-fall-off odds. 12:03:40 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Client Quit] 12:08:49 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 12:10:28 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:22 a broken refactor, even 12:11:40 !bug 9575 12:11:40 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9575 12:11:53 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:13:24 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:12 !tell wheals your refactor causes crashes on wearing rings https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9575 12:15:13 geekosaur: OK, I'll let wheals know. 12:15:45 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:16:51 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:08 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:24:11 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:20 -!- Dunsworth has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 12:25:35 !tell pleasingfungus Oops. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth, sorry! (regarding changing contam) 12:25:35 n1k: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 12:25:36 n1k: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 12:26:03 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:11 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:26:13 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 12:26:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:29:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-140-g944bdb4 (34) 12:29:40 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:32:32 geekosaur: thanks for the report, feel dumb that i tested most every slot but rings... 12:32:48 wheals: so what do we do when epic_bugs gets past 27 12:33:07 !tell pleasingfungus imagine the crash spam on ##crawl-dev if i had pushed a broken refactor not during tourney... 12:33:07 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 12:34:35 Honey (L3 MfGl) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 12:34:51 Honey (L3 MfGl) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 12:34:52 crap, it's starting 12:34:56 !seen honey 12:34:56 Sorry wheals, I haven't seen honey. 12:34:59 Honey (L3 MfGl) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 12:35:06 rip 12:37:38 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:09 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:38:19 -!- Monkaria has quit [Client Quit] 12:38:50 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41:07 * wheals waits for his computer to compile the fix 12:41:51 * wheals waits for his computer to actually print any message from the makefile (it feels like this part is always way longer than makes any sense) 12:42:29 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:29 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:42:53 wheals, at least you're not compiling under cygwin (I hope) 12:42:56 what a nightmare 12:43:15 takes ages 12:43:20 remember that patience isn`t about waiting itself its about how you act while you wait 12:45:11 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-141-g63f6ae1: Remove the staff of power's MP cache. 10(10 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=63f6ae18200c 12:45:11 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-142-g952c0bc: Fix a crash when putting on rings (#9575). 10(71 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=952c0bcf388a 12:45:16 !tell pleasingfungus anyway, it didn't start out as major, just kinda turned into that! (the concept that horns blocked helmets was coded in 4 different places) 12:45:16 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 12:45:25 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:29 hi 12:45:31 hi 12:45:41 ih 12:45:59 I was reading through your commits 12:46:06 geekosaur: thanks for the report! i feel pretty dumb now 12:46:09 in the vague hope of being more diligent about review after the double damage thing 12:46:17 uh oh 12:46:23 i suspect i will feel more dumb in a few seconds 12:46:33 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:59 in no particular order 12:47:01 %git 944bdb4c302 12:47:01 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-140-g944bdb4: Make you_can_wear(EQ_WEAPON) more robust. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 19+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=944bdb4c302d 12:47:19 ^ I would not describe any code that makes dummy items and weird assumptions about what races can use what as "more robust" 12:47:33 in particular, I strongly suspect this breaks for spriggans who have sacrificed hands 12:47:58 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:48:17 (prevents them from using any weapons at all) 12:48:31 ((fr: "sacrifice other hand")) 12:48:45 it seems not to, but only because you_can_wear doesn't actually seem to matter very much 12:48:57 heh 12:49:26 !source you::could_wield 12:49:27 Can't find you::could_wield. 12:49:30 er 12:49:34 !source player::could_wield 12:49:35 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player-act.cc;hb=HEAD#l437 12:49:36 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:49:48 yep 12:50:01 i suppose all this could be inverted -- can_wear_armour would call you_can_wear instead, which might return a string reason for being unable to wear 12:50:29 inverting sounds promising, yeah 12:50:43 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:44 %git f1f3296036af06c 12:50:44 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-137-gf1f3296: Make you_can_wear return a maybe_bool. 10(22 hours ago, 13 files, 63+ 61-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1f3296036af 12:52:48 what's going on with the ng-wanderer.cc change in ^ 12:53:08 player.cc:805:28: warning: comparison of two values with different enumeration types ('object_class_type' and 'armour_type') [-Wenum-compare] 12:53:09 ASSERT(dummy.base_type != NUM_ARMOURS); 12:53:12 -!- barkface has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:53:12 er 12:53:17 <|amethyst> hm 12:53:19 good catch :) 12:53:23 didn't notice that during last compile 12:53:26 and good catch by you too 12:53:47 <|amethyst> returning a string, or returning a stringable object? 12:53:55 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:59 <|amethyst> does anyone need to know the reason other than for printing a message? 12:54:19 perhaps it could be in the description of the item? 12:54:29 as PleasingFungus's spell uselessness refactor did 12:54:41 <|amethyst> hints mode too maybe? 12:54:49 "stringable object", mm 12:55:25 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: not necessarily castable to string, but with a .message member or method 12:55:33 sure, I just liked the phrase 12:55:38 <|amethyst> :) 12:55:41 hm, should SpWn be able to start with armour skill? 12:55:51 maybe it should just be is_useless_skill(SK_ARMOUR) 12:55:55 <|amethyst> beable 12:56:13 huh, never seen someone use "fsvo" before 12:56:20 (still reading through that commit) 12:56:32 I've seen the full phrase but not the acronym (initialism?) 12:56:38 <|amethyst> wheals: makes as much sense for sp as for tr 12:56:49 PleasingFungus: by the way, + if (you_can_wear(EQ_HELMET, true)) + return ARM_HELMET; 12:56:50 <|amethyst> wheals: trolls and dragons aren't *that* uncommon 12:57:10 that will make xom's "useless" armour gift give helmets to humans 12:57:59 mm 12:58:01 inverting is hard 12:59:04 while you're around, do you have an opinion on whether that xom useless gift code should exist? 12:59:16 it's kind of silly 12:59:34 and there's another codepath through which he can gift useless stuff, just not acquirement-grade uselessness 13:00:10 -!- CacoS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:23 is the change in acquirement_create_item to allow useless gifts from xom not enough, anyway? 13:02:30 it is not, since armour gifts are now guaranteed to be wearable 13:02:36 they were... probably mostly guaranteed wearable before 13:02:41 ish 13:03:20 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 13:05:04 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:06:59 do you think the idea of using an MB_BOOL was a good idea, by the way? for one thing, it was kind of the equivalent of making special_armour default to true instead of false 13:07:10 s/an MB_BOOL/a maybe_bool/ 13:07:20 since MB_MAYBE evaluates to true 13:08:28 amethyst are you neil on the forums?? tavern forums?? 13:08:29 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:09:03 I think it does read a little better - can_wear(...) == MB_MAYBE is much more obvious in intent than the "can_wear(...) && !can_wear(..., true) 13:09:42 If we had python-style kwargs, we could say "can_wear(..., special_armour=true)" (or some better parameter name), but we don't, so. 13:09:45 hopefully it's not quite as egregious as is_launched's return type :) 13:09:48 heh 13:10:43 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:14:45 -!- olourkin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:22:10 -!- olourkin1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:24:26 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:24:42 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:59 No warning when cleaving helpless monster as follower of TSO 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9576 by Xentronium 13:26:44 plausibly cleaving shouldn't hit helpless monsters as a tsoite 13:26:57 similarly to what we did for neutrals 13:29:45 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-143-g493dc5b: Fix an accidentally removed ! (PleasingFungus). 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=493dc5bb141f 13:29:45 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-144-gfbdc22b: Simplify. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 46-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fbdc22bed802 13:29:45 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-145-g09b6183: Fix a typo (geekosaur). 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=09b61834dd63 13:29:45 03wheals02 07* 0.17-a0-146-gd505748: A new nickname for Xom. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d5057481e30f 13:30:55 wheals: any particular reason the stat choice repeats options instead of using random_choose_weighted? 13:31:00 whales2 (L5 MiFi) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 13:31:06 whales2 (L4 MiFi) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 13:31:11 whales2 (L4 MiFi) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 13:31:18 PleasingFungus: the line cost... 13:31:59 whales2 (L4 MiFi) ERROR in 'player.cc' at line 798: unhandled equipment type 101 (D:3) 13:32:02 boo!!! 13:32:11 conceptually, it's more saying "these are twice as likely" than "this has a greater weight" 13:32:14 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [] 13:32:22 kind of splitting hairs, admittedly 13:32:27 I sincerely do not understand that distinction, yeah. 13:33:33 also i couldn't remember whether the sentinel value was -1 or 0 and was too lazy to look it up :P 13:34:44 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:35:07 booo 13:35:17 iirc it's 0, -1 was the old random_choose 13:35:27 hm 13:35:29 hmm 13:35:41 I should double-check my acquirement code to make sure I'm not short-circuiting 13:38:21 wheals: which servers did you rebuild? 13:39:58 Crash upon putting on +1 ring of evasion 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9577 by Whales 13:40:16 started Henzell, but then my connection got cut off and i didn't notice so i had to restart 13:40:20 should finish soon 13:40:25 didn't see any other rebuild announcements 13:40:42 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:41:04 9577 seems to be the same bug, which is the only reason I mentioned 13:41:15 k 13:41:46 serves him right for impersonating me, i say 13:42:15 (i wonder if this is the same guy who's the Cataclysm:DDA dev?) 13:42:19 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:23 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:30 wow, that was some interesting syntax there wheals 13:43:59 %giit 13:44:02 %git 13:44:02 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-146-gd505748: A new nickname for Xom. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d5057481e30f 13:44:17 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:44:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-146-gd505748 (34) 13:45:30 shouldn't it be alternating case 13:45:50 i thought that might be going too far :b 13:45:58 a few people asking for the unified installer 13:46:01 for windows 13:48:17 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:20 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:50:33 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:48 I was thinking about trying out changing the Lair rune branches to 3 levels for 0.17. They have gimmicks (liquids, webs, slow monsters) which tend to over-stay their welcome over a 5 level branch. 13:54:42 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:09 I support this change 13:57:01 I disagree. 13:57:15 I think 3 would be too short. 4 might be survivable, though I think the current 5 is fine. 13:58:30 3.5 levels sounds about right to me 13:58:50 3 levels and then only the branch ending :P 13:59:36 I found faerie dragon armour with -1 enchant 13:59:38 thought that got patched out 14:00:07 that was a trunk change iirc 14:00:11 num_levels = 3 + random2(2) 14:00:15 ive found plenty of -enchantment items in tourney 14:00:17 ah 14:00:31 yes, it was trunk 14:01:34 also, to be clear, the change was only for randarts (iirc) 14:01:37 not ego items or w/e 14:05:08 Lasty_: (i know you're joking, but) the code actually does support variable-length branches 14:06:23 elf was 3.5 levels long during some trunk or other 14:06:29 ! ! ! 14:06:51 (arguably it's 2.5 now and blade is .5? :P) 14:07:02 blade's more like a third of a level, realistically. 14:07:05 to be precise. 14:07:10 not to split any hairs. 14:07:10 shorter and more interesting levels would be great 14:07:16 blades was a great addition 14:07:29 weren't we also going to shorten lair 14:07:32 where by we i mean PleasingFungus 14:07:32 I think part of the move could be removing some of the inexplicable popcorn in the branches (like crocdiles in the swamp, plain spiders in Spider). So you cut out most tab-battles and less of the meaningful fights. 14:07:51 I'd be fine with a little less chaff, sure. 14:07:51 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:07:53 rip shoals bats 14:08:24 wheals: I was talking about shortening lair & lengthening orc, yes. as a retired person, who knows how much will occur? but it's still on my list. 14:08:40 PF is retiring? :( 14:08:54 no 14:08:55 wheals: I'd be fine w/ shortening Lair a bit. 14:08:58 unless he's retiring from retiring 14:09:01 -!- Mandevil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:11 Why lengthen orc? 14:09:18 also, lair:1-8 is actually old lair:3-10 rather than old lair:1-8 14:09:22 heh 14:09:27 Lasty_: gimme a sec, I pastebinned the whole thing 14:09:30 something similar could be done with the lair branches 14:09:35 there are three parts to the proposal, of which only one will likely occur 14:09:52 (was old lair:1 all hounds, rats, and bats??) 14:10:05 gotta represent all the beasts.... 14:10:27 the beasts are the real monsters! 14:10:30 wheals: do you think that the lair branches are too easy? 14:10:39 I had a proposal to cut Lair in half and make a second, totally-different 4-level-long branch that is about as hard as Lair, but none of my proposals were good enough. 14:10:43 at the end of lair, the player fights his illusion 14:10:49 i think that i'm not a good judge of balance 14:10:49 because the true beast is the player etc 14:10:57 or of much of anything 14:10:59 Ah. 14:11:01 rip 14:11:01 *their illusion 14:11:23 i agree, guarantee mara next to the stairs on lair:8 14:11:26 IME there's very little variance between lairbranch:1 and lb:4 14:11:30 and give Mara the Lair Rune 14:11:36 so it's 4 floors of samey stuff 14:11:44 if you're strong enough to do floor 1, you're strong enough for the rest of it until the endvault 14:11:46 you pick up the distressingly furry rune. 14:12:08 Lasty_: got bored searching for the old pastebin; http://pastebin.com/AMd5Y6FN is the relevant bit 14:12:11 i guess 14:12:25 the levels are noticeable different, but not hugely so 14:12:31 s/able/ably 14:12:34 Brannock: I've always found snake:1 to be very notably easier than 2-4 14:12:57 and shoals:1 feels slightly easier. agreed wrt the others 14:13:09 i wanted to build an alternate branch for elf 14:13:15 doy: dwarf! 14:13:29 maybe! 14:13:35 PleasingFungus: you left out all the fast, hard-hitting enemies in Lair 14:13:40 Obviously make Crypt and Elf alternate >_> <_< 14:13:42 was also considering wizard-themed 14:14:08 Lasty_: spiny frogs, black mambas, arguably blink frogs, arguably wolf packs? 14:14:14 don't think we need another branch filled with squishy wizards 14:14:18 Yeah 14:14:21 k 14:14:32 they're big in the list of "lair monsters that should stay" that isn't in this version of the pastebin 14:14:51 i guess crypt and elf both fall in the category of "stuff i'm too lazy to do" 14:15:01 aw, elf is fun 14:15:01 PF I found the older pastebin with list of monsters: http://pastebin.com/bq7WdAZF 14:15:02 there's loot! 14:15:09 the turn cost!! 14:15:13 heh 14:15:22 make crypt alternate with elf, make it wizard themed? clearly we need a lich branch 14:15:37 In the pastebin, you have lists of what appear to be the disguishing characteristics of orc and lair, and IMO the fast melee bruisers are defining for Lair 14:15:44 wheals: you could say That Branch will always... *overshadow* future new-branch proposals. diminish them, by comparison. there's another word you could use... 14:15:49 bestial wrath... 14:16:12 well I think elephants are way better than wolves despite not being fast 14:16:33 Lasty_: I personally find the yaks / death yaks / elephants to be the most characteristic monsters of current lair 14:17:00 but I'm not opposed to a philosophy of lair that focuses more on fast hard-hitters by any means (ref the list in the pastebin that brannock listed) 14:17:00 orc hurlers sound good, fits right in with twelwe's suggestion yesterday for more vomit-based attacks 14:17:08 gammafunk: why? 14:17:32 they hit hard, they trample 14:17:34 trample 14:17:36 wolves don't really do much 14:18:06 talk to me about trampling. 14:18:14 PsychedelicFungus sounds good too 14:18:15 no? 14:18:16 why are you putting that in the pros column? 14:18:36 you can't say no, you brought it up first!!! 14:18:38 well in all seriousness, it makes positioning important 14:19:13 positioning concerns are different for elephants than for wolves. you can stand in a doorway space for wolves and minimize the amount you fight, against elephants they'll just knock you back and move around you. also makes stairs less reliable 14:19:18 it also introduces you to dragontrampling later on 14:19:27 critical game mechanic, dragontrampling 14:19:54 agreed that elephants will knock you back but they can't really move around you, since, you know 14:19:57 they just knocked you back 14:20:02 -!- flowsnake has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:20:22 why can't they move around you? 14:20:34 because they move slower than you? 14:20:34 FR: elephants are smart enough to trample you into petrify cloud 14:20:36 whether they can is completely dependent on what your position is 14:20:41 The main effect of trampling is 1) knocking you off stairs sometimes, and 2) making conjure flame worse for unprepared players 14:21:01 gammafunk: but monsters w/o trample have an easier time surrounding you than monsters w/ trample 14:21:04 make trample move... through the player??? 14:21:11 !send CanOfWorms raiju 14:21:11 Sending raiju to CanOfWorms. 14:21:18 you effectively get two multiple moves for most members' of an elephant pack's one 14:21:23 er, that sentence went wrong 14:21:27 but the sentiment stands 14:21:27 The elephant trumpets and charges through you! 14:21:35 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:21:39 raijus are cool 14:21:45 ". . . and tramples over you" 14:21:53 I don't think you can consider the trample movement the same as voluntary movement 14:21:54 how about swooping elephants 14:21:59 <|amethyst> against pack monsters without trample you can usually find a spot where you will only have to fight one at a time 14:21:59 move the player 1 move and the trampler 2 14:22:01 and count it as a multiple move 14:22:12 <|amethyst> against pack monsters with trample, you won't be in that spot very long 14:22:16 against pack monsters with trample, almost any spot is a spot where you only have to fight one at a time 14:22:23 <|amethyst> and since lair doesn't have long width-1 corridors 14:22:29 dumbo the magnificent elephant appears in view 14:22:31 since whichever elephant is in the lead will push you away from its pals 14:22:32 that's just not true PleasingFungus 14:22:38 CanOfWorms: did you know Nellie was gone :( 14:22:46 oh? 14:22:47 <|amethyst> I think we must be playing completely different games 14:22:48 :( 14:22:49 <|amethyst> or rather 14:22:49 elephants are super easy to kite, much moreso than e.g. yaks 14:22:50 what? 14:22:51 I do have a hard time believing you've never been hit by multiple elephants at once :p 14:22:51 in my experience 14:23:02 I have, because I've played sloppily and lazily 14:23:08 <|amethyst> probably I don't kite enough 14:23:08 !lm * sprint uniq=nellie 14:23:10 431. [2015-03-20 00:44:17] undieable the End of an Era (L27 TrMo of Qazlal) killed Nellie on turn 5953. (D) 14:23:16 * doy is with gammafunk here 14:23:19 what 14:23:20 you can certainly kite them if you're faster than them 14:23:21 at least in my experience 14:23:24 I'll agree to that 14:23:26 oh sprint 14:23:27 just a few days ago 14:23:33 nellie was always sprint unique 14:23:36 elephants are easy to kite because they do some of the work for you 14:23:46 it's really easy to drag elephants around those big square blocks in some lair layouts, for example 14:23:53 hmm 14:23:55 I... swear I'd encountered her in hell sometime 14:23:57 and end up fighting only one at a time 14:24:19 guess I'm wrong 14:24:19 now if elephants pulled you backwards 14:24:19 yes, so the good places to fight them end up being the opposite as for wolves/yaks/etc. 14:24:21 elephants shoot water from their trunks and create shallow pools 14:24:32 ontoclasm: new kind of frog!! 14:24:34 (speaking as a melee char - primary casters should probably avoid getting bashed around by elephants) 14:24:41 (as a rule) 14:24:59 giant catfish 14:25:07 wheals: well, there are plenty of good spaces to fight other monsters that are also good for fighting elephants 14:25:09 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: mammoth starspawn? 14:25:10 e.g. corridors 14:25:21 giant catfish that can cast shatter... 14:25:22 I think people are just getting a bit fixed on some idea that "lair monster good = fast" out of some notion of "unified monster theme" but I don't think the latter is or should be some iron-clad rule 14:25:29 that's good for a little time... 14:25:33 but as I said earlier, I don't think trample is a bad mechanic. I just don't think it makes monsters faster 14:25:36 er 14:25:39 *makes monsters stronger 14:25:42 gammafunk: probably the "speed 10 monsters literally dont exist in crawl" idea 14:25:57 well yeah, not in a totally general sense 14:25:59 yeah, not every monster in lair needs to be fast 14:26:10 I do agree that the fast lair monsters are generally pretty good 14:26:19 it does make elephant packs less scary than death yak packs, no question 14:26:27 but I wouldn't rate wolves more interesting than elephants 14:26:43 wolves should have pack ai 14:26:53 they do? 14:27:02 they have band ai, but not herd ai 14:27:03 i think 14:27:12 no moresos than anything else 14:27:39 make them kite you just out of sight and surround you on all sides 14:27:53 then make them howl to convoke more wolves from across the map 14:27:53 what would you want "pack ai" to do? 14:27:57 for several hundred turns 14:28:09 ?/howl 14:28:10 Matching terms (2): howl, howling_fantods; entries (2): drpraetor[1] | eidolon[1] 14:28:10 <|amethyst> doy: perhaps make them, instead of doing this: 14:28:13 <|amethyst> hhh 14:28:14 <|amethyst> .@. 14:28:18 doy: intentionally flank and surround you 14:28:21 <|amethyst> prefer to spend a turn pincering you 14:28:25 <|amethyst> .h. 14:28:26 <|amethyst> h@h 14:28:29 monsters already do that sometimes 14:28:38 ??howling fantods 14:28:38 (normal enemies will move out the way to make room for similar ones but not in a concerted way) 14:28:38 eidolon[1/1]: It's like a wraith but more so. Also it's a mega super duper scary spook and gives you the howling fantods. (Has Cause Fear.) In 0.13+, they appear in the Crypt and drain your speed with their melee, and can also cast bolt of draining. 14:28:40 <|amethyst> if there's someone else to move out of the way of 14:28:43 not really, if there are only three wolves they wont move beyond what |amethyst showed 14:28:44 whaaaaa 14:28:48 oh, I see 14:29:01 |amethyst: would that be an improvement? 14:29:06 <|amethyst> I dunno 14:29:21 i think that would just make maneuvering easier 14:29:27 <|amethyst> would be more clever of them, but spending the turn might not actually be worth it 14:29:29 wolves are already faster than most players, so it's not like they can't catch you if you try to run, regardless 14:29:35 yes 14:29:37 I'm not convinced it would be more clever 14:29:56 <|amethyst> yeah, maybe it wouldn't actually have any benefit 14:29:59 seems like it would be more useful on speed 10 if anything 14:30:05 <|amethyst> since as you said the first case blocks your movement more 14:30:07 since then they gain a hit if you try to run away 14:30:10 predatorial yaks...... 14:30:18 wheals: is a hit later better than a hit sooner? 14:30:23 since that's the tradeoff there 14:30:30 well, if you're running away you're often injured 14:30:37 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:30:41 <|amethyst> M_MAINTAIN_RANGE_UNTIL_YOURE_SURROUNDED 14:30:47 yaks are mean and vicious creatures who like to kick adventurers while you're around 14:30:53 |amethyst: isn't that M_STABBER? 14:31:01 wasn't 14:31:01 M_THE_LONGEST_OF_ALL_ENUM_NAMES_HOORAY 14:31:12 AI changes like this don't sound like they would make the monsters any more difficult to fight 14:31:12 s/around/down 14:31:25 pack AI already makes packs less dangerous because it makes them extremely slow 14:31:48 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.1/20150305021524]] 14:31:50 that isn't pack ai, it's just needless swapping 14:31:51 and now you're suggesting they should be more hesitant to actually attack you? 14:32:07 wheals: what do you call the thing that makes packs try to stay together then 14:32:33 yak shifter 14:32:52 or guardian yak 14:32:52 yak friendship 14:32:56 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:59 <|amethyst> could 1. make fewer things willing to swap with something of equal rank 14:33:01 this also sounds like it would be very confusing to unspoiled players like ranged AI 14:33:26 i don't think "monster ai is confusing" is something we should worry about 14:33:27 <|amethyst> 2. allow monsters blocked by allies to "hold action" until the ally moves, rather than losing a whole turn 14:33:39 bug report: monsters aren't as dumb as i am 14:33:56 do you think ranged AI is not confusing? 14:34:00 i don't think it matters 14:35:02 allowing players to base tactics around predicted monster behavior is kind of dumb, and i'd like to move in the direction of less of it (although that's a hard problem) 14:35:05 |amethyst: well, is the intention here to make monsters more dangerous, or less dangerous? 14:35:37 I don't agree that allowing players to use tactics is dumb. 14:35:56 <|amethyst> minmay: the idea of those two was to make monsters spend less time swapping and more time approaching you 14:36:21 <|amethyst> err, "actions", not "time" 14:37:01 <|amethyst> I don't think I would equate "allowing players to use tactics" with "making it easier to predict enemy behaviour" 14:37:04 |amethyst: the best way to accomplish that seems like it would be to just remove swapping among monsters of the same type 14:37:16 <|amethyst> minmay: that was 1. 14:37:30 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:34 <|amethyst> minmay: "fewer things" because there might be a few cases where we want to keep the behaviour 14:37:35 |amethyst: If monster behaviour is completely unpredictable then there are no tactics at all 14:38:11 <|amethyst> it's a good thing that there are intermediate positions between Xom and determinism 14:38:15 what's with these straw mans 14:38:29 |amethyst: Well, a yak swapping with another yak can pretty much never be harmful to the player; a yak swapping with a rat could. Currently yaks swap with yaks but not with rats, so it looks like swapping is trying to make combat easier instead of harder 14:39:21 |amethyst: Well, he said "allowing players to base tactics around predicted monster behavior is kind of dumb", so I assumed he meant that allowing them to do it at all was dumb, rather than that monster behaviour should be somewhat predictable but not completely 14:39:22 n1k: it's our new idea for a lair monster 14:40:27 <|amethyst> minmay: yes, could remove most of the genus restrictions there 14:40:40 <|amethyst> minmay: and base it more on rank/danger 14:40:48 |amethyst: I often suggest/complain that all monsters should swap, but I know dpeg at least was against that 14:40:55 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:40:57 <|amethyst> so the yak could swap with the rat but not the other way around 14:41:01 yes 14:42:57 wheals, how about a wicker man 14:44:06 "Also note that flame tongue damage is more variable since it rolls only one die" 14:44:25 I mean it is more vaiable, but that's not why 14:44:33 a wicker man? http://imgkid.com/nicolas-cage-bees-gif.shtml 14:44:47 I guess it depends on how you interpret that statement 14:45:10 and *variable 14:46:33 honestly so long as you take "variable" in the way that people with no statistics background do, that statement is pretty reasonable 14:46:45 n1k: we were also considering a hanged man 14:46:57 rip (and also: rip) 14:48:43 gammafunk: oh god I didn't read the second part of that sentence 14:48:52 gammafunk: "Also note that flame tongue damage is more variable since it rolls only one die, which makes it more effective against armored enemies than it would be if it rolled two dice like throw flame." 14:49:04 hehe, yeah 14:50:33 <|amethyst> depends on the amount of armour 14:50:57 <|amethyst> I could imagine *situations* where that's true 14:51:11 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:21 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:55:29 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:50 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 14:56:15 certainly at XL 1 it's better :P 14:56:26 can you? since AC is 1dX... 14:56:28 So, there are a handful of zealots rabidly pursuing a "display damage dealt" patch. Devs, is anyone interested in that? I'm fairly strongly opposed, and I'd like to say "there's no chance of this patch being accepted" 14:56:31 well 1dX-1 14:58:25 Lasty_: since it's on tavern, you can go ahead and say that and it won't make a difference 14:58:43 heh 14:59:24 minmay: you thanked some of the posts that were calling for display of damage dealt to monsters, IIRC -- is that something you're in favor of? 14:59:26 <|amethyst> minmay: yes, modelling with damage rolls of 1d3 - 1 (one die) vs 2d2 - 2 (two dice, same range) 14:59:38 strong -1 to displaying damage numbers 14:59:39 If so, can you say something coherent in favor of it, unlike the people pushing it in tavern? 15:00:55 -!- TR_Muscateer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:09 <|amethyst> minmay: against an ac of 4 (subtracting 1d4 - 1 damage), 1d3-1 would have 2/12 1s and 1/12 2s post-AC (average 0.333) while 2d2-2 would be 3/16 1s and 1/16 2s (0.3125) 15:01:10 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:12 Lasty_: I'm in favor of it because it gives more, and easily understandable, information to players, and particularly since there are already messages that indicate damage. Especially damage against the player, which I believe I explained well enough in my post in that thread 15:01:52 |amethyst: yeah, you're right 15:01:55 yeah, damage received is different because you already know that number 15:02:01 Lasty_: IIRC I thanked those posts because they were funny though 15:02:14 although i don't think that should be on by default, since in general it'd just be distracting 15:02:35 (most of the time you just don't care) 15:02:57 minmay: yeah, I agree re: damage to the player, since it's already exposed, more or less. 15:03:36 I use damage-received display, not because I care about the numbers but because when the numbers are big it can help remind me to pay attention 15:03:43 doy: it would be rolled into the damage messages, of course 15:03:54 minmay: sure, but amount of information would still increase 15:04:00 which increases the cognitive load 15:04:19 Lasty_: yeah, i feel like making "ouch" messages configurable would be a better solution there 15:04:19 For me it'd be equally helpful if attacks that do a big chunk of damage said, "hey, you lost a bunch of hp this turn!" 15:04:23 yeah 15:04:39 Lasty_: I'm of the opinion that the cases where this change would be most beneficial are ones where it's not well-exposed like monsters with multiple attacks (see: me complaining about people not knowing what rPois does) 15:04:43 Lasty_: it's sandman25 15:04:54 ontoclasm: and mps, and berder. The usualy. 15:05:00 s/y// 15:05:03 he wrote a patch that displays literally every roll ever made by the engine 15:05:17 yup, and he saw that as a positive thing :p 15:05:28 wouldn't configurable ouch messages allow you to get the exact damage numbers anyway, just in an extraordinarily cumbersome way? 15:05:31 !lg sandman25 won avg=dur 15:05:32 Unknown field: avg 15:05:40 or extroidinarely, i should say 15:05:55 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:56 minmay: i'm not against the actual numbers being available 15:06:00 minmay: player ouch messages, not monster ones 15:06:10 I thought we were talking about player ones 15:06:15 the actual numbers for damage the player received, that is 15:06:31 !lg sandman25 won average=dur 15:06:37 Unknown field: average 15:06:37 i just disagree that showing them constantly would be a ui improvement 15:06:39 damn it, gotta look at the manual :p 15:06:44 ??sequell 15:06:45 sequell[1/4]: The ##crawl bot, handling game statistics, the {learndb}, and more. Operated by greensnark. See http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/docs/listgame.md If you want the source, go here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell 15:07:05 -!- Gamesmaster1965 is now known as Gamesmaster 15:07:07 !lg sandman25 won x=avg(dur) 15:07:08 26 games for sandman25 (won): avg(dur)=15:45:18 15:07:19 We're talking about a remarkably slow player 15:07:35 !lg . won x=avg(dur) 15:07:36 36 games for doy (won): avg(dur)=18:33:07 15:07:41 (: 15:07:42 heh, fair nuff 15:07:48 -!- Gamesmaster is now known as Gamesmaster1965 15:07:52 !lg . won x=avg(dur) urune=3 15:07:53 24 games for doy (won urune=3): avg(dur)=17:37:58 15:07:58 !lg . won x=avg(dur) urune=3 recent 15:07:58 4 games for doy (won urune=3 recent): avg(dur)=9:24:13 15:08:05 shrug 15:08:06 !lg sandman25 urune<6 won x=avg(dur) 15:08:07 19 games for sandman25 (urune<6 won): avg(dur)=13:20:09 15:09:34 I'd love it if he really would just make his own fork for people who want to be compulsive about knowing every number don't feel like DC:SS is that game 15:10:22 putting damage into the message window puts a bunch of abstract numbers into a place that is mostly devoid of them 15:11:52 !lg . recent won x=avg(dur) 15:11:52 25 games for minmay (recent won): avg(dur)=3:59:03 15:11:57 and I support this change 15:12:00 so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here 15:12:27 this is part of the reason I don't like exclamation marks conveying damage information--though it's less obtrusive than numbers it's weird non-lexical information 15:12:34 minmay: displaying player damage to monsters, you mean? 15:12:45 Lasty_: yes, and displaying damage to players as well 15:12:59 -!- ark___ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:13:00 n1k: I agree that the exclamation mark-encoded damage info is not graet 15:13:16 IMO, it really only works well if you mostly ignore them 15:14:24 minmay: I brought up Sandman25's playtime in reference to ontoclasm remarking on his patch to display all game rolls, viz his willingness to play slowly and deliberately. 15:15:38 minmay: I'm concerned that providing the damage numbers will be distracting, put importance on the wrong aspects of the game, and yet still be insufficient information to either base decisions on or make the complete-knowledge-purists happy. 15:15:46 +1 15:15:55 i mean 15:16:03 you can enable it if you want to personally 15:16:08 plenty of people do via lua or whatever 15:16:15 but i think it's the wrong default 15:16:16 <|amethyst> doy: shouldn't that be just "+" to be consistent? :) 15:16:24 d: 15:16:47 re: what I just said, I meant displaying damage numbers for player damage to monsters. 15:17:08 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:17:17 re: player damage received, I'm fine w/ making it an init option, and I think it's potentially distracting but directly relevant. 15:17:27 yeah 15:20:05 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:53 I believe that what the posters in that thread suggest leads towards the perils of neglecting aesthetics for absolute numerical clarity. I think it's totally fine if players are making incorrect moves because their feelings about things don't absolutely line up with the real numbers 15:23:20 consider people who rave about their GDA character, "nothing could damage it!" Experienced/spoiled players might know it to be a suboptimal choice but who cares? Someone got to enjoy the feeling of power 15:23:59 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:26:16 Anyway, excuse the wall of text, but the long and short of it is that I think that players with as many games as sandman or myself experience a detatchment from the illusion or storytelling aspect a game ought to provide. Crawl becomes a meta-game, optimizing win rates over dozens of games instead of being thrust into the mystery of a single one. 15:27:51 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 15:28:24 +1 15:29:41 I don't think it counts as a wall of text if you can fit it into 3 irc messages 15:31:41 who said it was over? (kidding) 15:34:54 I have five pages of lore I could post about being thrust into the mystery of crawl 15:35:57 -!- nono has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:36:43 now that I think about it 15:37:03 well no, it's not quite good enough 15:37:16 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:39:09 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:54 -!- Fangorn__ has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:47:08 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 15:47:26 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:42 gammafunk: lore about the mystery of crawl https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15326&p=209694#p209694 15:51:14 lol I don't think I actually read the "How come katanas aren’t “Crawly” when kenku are anyway? They are both Japanese copncepts!" bit 15:51:25 -!- tupper has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:16 gammafunk: I think my favourite part is actually "In terms of nuts and bolts programming, Crawl is about as impeccable and professional as a non-commercial roguelike can be." 15:53:20 <_miek> isn't it about time for another monthly dunk? 15:53:47 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:55:12 minmay: you can't prove that we aren't that though 15:55:55 we're impaccable and professional, and minmay is basically an unpaid intern that just like never ever left for some reason 15:56:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:46 !lg lootfeel t won 15:56:47 8. ontoclasm the Formicid Porcupine (L27 FoGl of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-19 08:43:28, with 16031544 points after 97367 turns and 6:25:23. 15:56:55 !lg lootfeel t name!=gammafunk 15:56:56 77. ontoclasm the Spear-Bearer (L8 OpSu of The Shining One), slain by a giant frog on D:7 on 2015-03-24 20:32:29, with 1642 points after 8872 turns and 0:25:20. 15:57:43 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 15:58:00 * |amethyst is the guy who accidentally left the hot plate on and burned down the office, but I still have a job because unions 15:58:22 just wait for your performance review 15:58:22 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 16:00:49 maybe it was more like https://youtu.be/uVD3KPUnKHk?t=39 16:01:31 <|amethyst> stapler, knew it 16:04:32 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:04:49 -!- Krotikx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:04 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:05:33 -!- pikaro has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:50 -!- neunon_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:14 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 16:07:14 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:47 -!- neunon_ is now known as neunon 16:10:04 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:11:20 -!- tstbtto1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:11:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13:40 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:07 -!- Maud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:49 -!- maloy has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:12 -!- nono has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:33:51 -!- dfasdas has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:01 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:06 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:51 -!- HoloIRCUser has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:38 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:30 -!- hhkb has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:24 -!- Mindiell has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:24 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:24 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:24 -!- Elsi has quit [*.net *.split] 16:48:45 -!- ark__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:55 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:55 -!- Elsi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:06 _A - Strodw Smee's Almanac of Evil {!a} 16:51:29 it caught rod in the name. i shouldnt attack with books anyway but incredible 16:51:58 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:20 hm, that could be annoying with randart weapons though couldn't it 17:00:12 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:01:37 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:57 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 17:02:20 -!- xordid has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:04:02 doing !apt dr returns blank entries. how to turn "dr" into bot shorthand for "draconian"? 17:04:45 Brannock, it's a known bug but a weird one: sometimes it's blank and other times it's correct 17:04:49 ah 17:04:50 !apt dr 17:04:51 Dr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: , Dodge: -1, Stealth: 0, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: 0 17:04:53 see! 17:05:15 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:31 |amethyst: hrm, am I correct in the interpretation that, for throw flame and frost, 40-49 spellpower is the same as 40 spellpower? 17:06:51 -!- whosmells has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:07:17 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 17:11:11 I have a hard time deciding which is the larger Ru sac of "major" and "significant", is it just me? 17:12:00 aren't the former the large ones, and isn't it fairly obvious? 17:12:11 I don't know what the lists are 17:12:16 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:17 English is not my first language 17:12:32 but if I had to guess, I'd go with major > significant 17:12:44 so perhaps there is no problem :) 17:12:52 yes as a native english speaker that'd be my guess not knowning anything else :) 17:13:07 significant has an opposite of insignificant 17:13:08 <|amethyst> gammafunk: indeed, it would seem so 17:13:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: at least for damage and tohit 17:13:30 major has an opposite of minor, but minor doesn't always mean insignificant 17:13:55 |amethyst: yeah, that seems kind of bad for a spell with such a low power cap 17:14:08 well 17:14:21 in practice it really may not be, let me see 17:14:24 <|amethyst> I didn't check the range formula 17:14:35 <|amethyst> oh, you said throw, not flame tongue :) 17:14:51 it depends on circumstances, if I write a radiology answer, something could be significant but not major but also major but not significant (in the circumstances) 17:14:51 yes 17:15:07 <|amethyst> It gives a little bit extra power at max damage, which is good 17:15:19 <|amethyst> it's maybe unfortunate that it divides by such a big number 17:15:31 <|amethyst> div_rand_round would bump up the numbers slightly 17:15:36 <|amethyst> by 0.5 each 17:15:49 right. It's not too bad in practice, as I see I get no benefit from 10->11 fire/conj but I do at 11->12 17:16:00 or somewhere between, whenever it hits 30 17:16:02 er 50 17:16:08 but it doesn't really bug me, just a parallell to the recent issues some had with the wording scale of MR 17:16:38 TAS_2012v: yeah there's nothing that says that the interpretations you're using for radiology are invalid :) 17:16:57 you probably could convince Lasty_ that there's a better set of words 17:17:56 Lasty is significantly easy to influence, but not majorly so 17:18:37 <|amethyst> I agree that "major" and "significant" are unclear, and I'm a native spearker 17:18:54 <|amethyst> speaker 17:18:58 <|amethyst> I don't have any spearks, sadly 17:18:59 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:07 spearkin? 17:19:23 <|amethyst> but perhaps my next trident character will name his weapon "Speark" 17:20:44 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:07 -!- Gamesmaster1965 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21:16 Spriggan Elementalist of Earth 17:21:25 of Air, rather 17:21:58 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:02 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23:45 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 17:28:42 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:29:21 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 17:35:18 What if Hell EndVaults were removed? These huge encompass vaults have the problem of it's much easier for someone who knows the layout from a previous game to grab the rune and go; so, at least randomize where the rune is; at most, completely randomize the floor and have helllord and rune together placed somewhere. 17:38:50 gammafunk :) 17:38:54 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:39:33 <|amethyst> I'd support pre-mapping levels where there is no procedural content, but I don't know how you'd handle things like SUBSTs (would those squares just be unmapped? how do you keep track of that? what if all the options end up mapping to the same thing? 17:39:38 <|amethyst> ) 17:39:40 hell endvaults are already semirandomized afaik? 17:40:20 I was expecting them to be the same the second time I went there, but they were all somewhat jumbled 17:41:09 * TAS_2012v kicks tournament score pages so tey will update with three new banners kthxplz 17:43:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:43:17 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:44:55 -!- SriBri has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:46:36 -!- TungstenYUNOMELT is now known as Tungsten_ 17:47:37 There is a little (like the maze to find Ereshkigal on Tar:$ is random) - but the room she's in is always the same; and if you read a ?Mapping or are of Ash it's easy to identify it and either get there quickly or LRD in and skip her. 17:49:56 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:57:07 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:49 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:01:03 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:48 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 18:04:12 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:57 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Client Quit] 18:06:38 -!- Lamil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:09:19 -!- gruegirl has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 18:09:55 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:31 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:43 !lm . 18:14:44 13492. [2015-03-24 23:13:23] gammafunk the Summoner (L9 HESu of Sif Muna) entered the Lair of Beasts on turn 4544. (D:10) 18:15:01 rip 18:15:02 nicolae-: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:15:02 Basil: another tournament victory, despite the fact that 0.16 rng is noticably worse 18:15:10 :O 18:15:12 !messages 18:15:12 (1/1) gammafunk said (19h 13m 29s ago): nice try buddy!!! if s == "N" and crawl.one_chance_in( 30 ) then return "Nicolae" elseif s == "G" and crawl.one_chance_in( 30 ) then return "Gammafunk" 18:15:26 oh. what, did you want a higher chance because you're a dev. you can do that. 18:15:33 you thought you could fool the vault master?!?! 18:15:34 one chance in 20 18:15:35 he meant that you need an "end" 18:15:47 did you not read what e.lliptic said about my attentiveness 18:15:51 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:16:15 nicolae-: I like the dryadless version of phyte_club and will probably go with that fwiw 18:16:28 okie doke 18:16:35 nicolae-: but if you made eringyas a better map and used the dryad there... 18:16:42 what did epilltic say about your attentiveness 18:16:43 I don't like that map very much 18:16:50 ehhhhhhh maybe 18:16:58 he said don't even bother trying to slip things past me 18:17:06 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:17:36 nicolae-: I think I'll merge that stuff this evening 18:17:53 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:54 if I could stop carrying the team 18:18:00 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:18:01 fruit! 18:18:01 well, it wasn't really slipping things past you so much as not caring so much one way or the other 18:18:23 though i note you never actually removed the Franchising Opportunities from the first commit of alphashops... 18:18:43 nicolae-: well how serious do you think I'm being on a scale of 1-10 18:19:05 I thought this was just a running joke at this point 18:19:06 almost as serious as your sif elf thrusting fanfiction i bet 18:19:12 11 18:19:16 that is very serious fanfic! 18:19:41 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:41 i figured you weren't too concerned about it though the last time i tried putting my name on a shop it didn't get in :( 18:19:44 there are some formatting lua things I need to clean up 18:20:12 nicolae-: like crawl.one_chance_in( 30 ) -> crawl.one_chance_in(30) 18:20:24 although said code shall be removed! 18:20:53 nicolae-: yeah it's a funny joke, I think the only issue is if one vault starts putting names in-game, then others will follow suit 18:22:06 -!- coffee` has quit [Quit: coffee`] 18:24:18 true. 18:24:26 Cerebov comes into view. He is wielding the +6 Sword of KennySheep {flame}. 18:24:34 noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 18:24:39 wheals, no 18:24:39 haha 18:24:39 no 18:24:49 nicolae-: on that note,there was talk of making wizlabs announce their title 18:24:57 * wheals hits Grunt. The sword burns away Grunt's KennySheep resistance! 18:25:03 that would be nice 18:25:06 for certain encompass maps, there's maybe reason to give an in-game title 18:25:19 it might not be more than wiz labs 18:25:24 mm, announces for encompass vaults 18:25:35 Welcome to the Slaughterboxes! "Zero! Nine! EIGHT!" 18:25:46 depths encompass, wiz labs 18:26:19 holy pan!! 18:26:37 Welcome to the final level of Zot! There's no Orb here! Go home! 18:27:24 You have reached level 27 of Zot, the final one! 18:27:36 is this clan name allowed? http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/clans/cheibrodos.html 18:27:41 With the way you've been playing, I'm surprised you've gotten this far. 18:28:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:29:05 say that on each level 18:29:35 lmfao jesus christ cheibrodos 18:30:27 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.17-a0-146-gd505748 (34) 18:33:24 how can I sort this query by won%? !lg * t s=name / won 18:33:35 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:53 chequers, o=% at the end 18:34:03 there are solo teams every tournament 18:34:29 i think a bigger problem is, say, a team made of robin accounts 18:34:36 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:34:48 I meant the name 18:35:03 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:43 -!- Mottikins_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:37:22 ok, this query shows e.lliptic with 8/8 wins: !lg * t s=name / won o=% 18:37:32 but if you s/*/e.liptic, it shows 2 wins 18:37:36 why 18:38:40 chequers: he might be playing under one of his alts 18:38:45 no 18:38:47 !lg elliptic s=name 18:38:48 1897 games for elliptic: 1213x hyperbolic, 516x elliptic, 151x hyperelliptic, 17x circular 18:38:49 -!- Elystan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:38:51 !nick elliptic 18:38:52 !lg elliptic t s=name 18:38:52 Mapping elliptic => (!meleebug) elliptic hyperbolic hyperelliptic circular 18:38:52 2 games for elliptic (t): 2x elliptic 18:38:56 that's why 18:39:05 oh yeah that too 18:39:10 bit it's a nick problem :) 18:39:23 so if your queries look odd for a player 18:39:31 always good to look at their !nick 18:40:04 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:37 ??meleebug 18:40:37 epic bugs[24/24]: The git commit e0bdd66 roughly doubled player melee damage. This was not noticed until around halfway through the 0.16 tournament. http://s-z.org/neil/images/logicbug.jpg 18:40:37 !lg . t won !meleebug 18:40:37 No games for gammafunk (t won !meleebug). 18:40:43 !lg . t won !meleebug 18:40:43 No games for bh (t won !meleebug). 18:41:20 and n.b. that you may have wins that were in-part due to melee bug but you upgraded the game 18:41:56 pretty sure I finished before the bug was fixed 18:41:58 !lg . 18:41:59 1683. bh the Slayer (L27 GrFi of Qazlal), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2015-03-15 17:27:34, with 2613973 points after 60443 turns and 5:11:29. 18:42:34 bh: if that's the case then meleebug will tell you 18:42:53 !meleebug . 18:42:53 I'm talkig about if you played during meleebug but upgraded to a fixed version 18:42:57 it's a kw 18:43:03 !lg bh meleebug won 18:43:04 1. bh the Slayer (L27 GrFi of Qazlal), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2015-03-15 17:27:34, with 2613973 points after 60443 turns and 5:11:29. 18:43:13 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:43:54 I guess I could try for that mibe 18:45:27 can we get an orbrun keyword so I can easily reference orbrun splats? 18:46:56 !lm * t orb !won s=place 18:46:57 46 milestones for * (t orb !won): 46x Zot:5 18:46:59 Brannock: That's really a ##crawl question (I think). See if there's one already! 18:46:59 er 18:47:02 !lm * t orb !won s=lg:place 18:47:03 46 milestones for * (t orb !won): 12x Zot:5, 6x Zot:3, 3x Depths:2, 3x Depths:5, 2x Tomb:3, 2x Depths:3, 2x D:7, 2x Zot:2, 2x Depths:4, 2x D:6, 2x D:8, D:14, Zot:4, Depths:1, D:1, D:13, D:11, D:3, Zot:1 18:47:09 Brannock: ^ 18:47:21 do that sort of query 18:48:49 oh you can do s=lg:foo 18:49:16 and you can get the game with -game 18:49:25 for example 18:49:25 e.g. 18:49:27 oh 18:49:33 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:49:34 !lm * t orb !won lg:place=tomb:3 -game 18:49:35 edgefigaro:cao:20150214194317S. edgefigaro the Shatterer (L27 HOAM of Kikubaaqudgha), blasted by a mummy priest (divine providence) on Tomb:3 (tomb_3) on 2015-03-15 05:04:14, with 624065 points after 63119 turns and 8:42:06. 18:49:44 !lm * t orb !won lg:place=tomb:3 -game -tv 18:49:45 edgefigaro:cao:20150214194317S. edgefigaro, XL27 HOAM, T:63119 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 18:49:46 !lm * t orb !won lg:place=tomb:3 -game -log 18:49:46 edgefigaro, XL27 HOAM, T:63119: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/edgefigaro/morgue-edgefigaro-20150315-050414.txt 18:49:55 hrm 18:50:02 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:09 I'm hoping to fix some bugs listed on mantis. I have a patch file ready for the first one, but I wanted to check in here first. 18:50:13 -!- Maud has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:50:14 Should I just upload the file to mantis? 18:50:15 -!- olourkin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:55 !lm . t br.enter=lair x=lg:x=ac 18:50:56 Broken query near '=ac' 18:50:58 Do I need more approval than just saying "Hi, here are some bug fixes?" 18:51:04 !lm . t br.enter=lair x=${lg:x=ac} 18:51:04 Type mismatch: ac in 'lg:x=ac' 18:51:19 gammafunk: no x 18:51:22 er 18:51:23 ah too bad 18:51:36 !lm gammafunk t br.enter=lair x=lg:ac 18:51:37 6. [2015-03-24 23:13:23] [ac=5] gammafunk the Summoner (L9 HESu of Sif Muna) entered the Lair of Beasts on turn 4544. (D:10) 18:51:42 I mean like that 18:51:58 oh 18:52:04 the x kind of propogates? 18:52:12 I don't know what you mean 18:52:17 it 18:52:23 "lg:ac" is effectively the name of a field 18:52:32 it's prodiucing a singl;e value so I would consider the x= to be implicit in the sub-lg 18:52:33 well I don't know how lg:ac is parsed 18:52:50 as in, what can I put after lg: 18:53:31 gammafunk: lg:ac means "value of the field ac at the end of the game associated with the given milestone" 18:53:46 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:47 ok 18:53:54 so I could do 18:54:07 !lm gammafunk t br.enter=lair lg:ac<12 18:54:07 5. [2015-03-24 23:13:23] gammafunk the Summoner (L9 HESu of Sif Muna) entered the Lair of Beasts on turn 4544. (D:10) 18:54:16 yep 18:54:21 cool, thanks 18:54:28 that will be very handy 18:55:38 <|amethyst> Lamil: no, no approval needed. which bugs are you working on? 18:55:56 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:18 I just did 9570 to make sure I could check out the code etc 18:56:26 since it was a one character change 18:57:27 Also looking at 9564, 6666, some others ... didn't want to do too much without knowing if it was working / ok 18:59:32 <|amethyst> yes, those would all be good ones to take a stab at :) 19:00:12 <|amethyst> upload your patches and ping us again 19:01:08 patch-guide.txt says to indicate the version I'm patching from. Is this referring to what I get from crawl -version ? 19:01:08 <|amethyst> or ask if you have any questions 19:01:24 <|amethyst> yes, or git describe 19:01:32 ok, cool 19:01:41 <|amethyst> but if you make your patch with git format-patch that's probably not necessary 19:02:00 that is what I did, so great, saves some copying 19:02:07 <|amethyst> since such patches include the hash of the previous version of each file 19:02:17 <|amethyst> each changed file 19:03:12 -!- Zekka has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:03:58 right, it seemed like it would be redundant, but I also wanted to follow directions if there was some reason I didn't get. 19:04:10 I've uploaded my 9570 patch to that bug on mantis 19:04:44 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:06:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-147-g4d03695: Don't place Killer Klowns on Mnoleg's floor 10(7 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d03695922bc 19:06:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-148-g1387855: Reduce Summon Guardian Golem to level 3 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13878554fc42 19:06:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-149-ga7447b4: Let warding apply to ranged as well as melee attacks 10(2 weeks ago, 5 files, 26+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7447b49d682 19:06:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-150-gf8c42a1: Add more detail to some mutation descriptions 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8c42a1b5269 19:06:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-151-g5e05aee: Don't make faith affect chances for god lifesaving 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5e05aee091ed 19:06:05 n1k: gammafunk: ah 19:06:58 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 19:07:39 wait why can't mnoleg have klowns anymore???? 19:07:47 wasn't that a recent addition 19:08:25 i have no way to know for sure, but i suspect MarvinPA was thinking that they're thematically one of the Zot-unique monsters like orbs of fire and electric golems. 19:08:46 a very perceptive guess 19:09:03 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:09:04 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:13 also i somehow didn't put the actual .des change in there 19:10:14 but theres some vague Zot~Pan connection, since you know they're the ones who come for you when you get the orb 19:10:22 that would help i guess 19:10:45 Klown has come for you... 19:10:49 fr unkilled hell lords show up on the orb run 19:10:53 and the royal jelly 19:11:37 and khufu 19:11:42 and saint roka?? 19:11:59 all the uniques that are still around come in for a HUGE party 19:12:57 nicolae- that already happens. Not TRJ; but I've had Cerebov show up during the Orb Run... 19:13:29 -!- serq has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:39 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 19:13:51 only if you steal cerbov's rune though, right? 19:14:39 -!- Kramell has quit [Excess Flood] 19:14:58 IDK; I had on that run. 19:15:13 well I'd complain more if klowns were a more interesting monster 19:15:21 SpBe^Dithmenos IIRC. 19:15:38 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:48 probably mnoleg could just have af_chaos as well, but then he's such a pita to fight 19:16:15 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:16:15 -!- lkjdJ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16:17 gammafunk in theory the whole Klown brand is supposed to be a more interesting flavourful chaos brand. I've never had it actually proc anything interesting though. 19:16:38 -!- Tungsten_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:16:42 can we replace pizza with pita 19:16:49 Mnoleg tentacle-slaps you. You suddenly lose the ability to move! 19:17:12 elliptic finds pizza to be a pita 19:17:26 pizza = ass 19:17:27 elliptic: well it is a game about gyros 19:17:36 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.17-a0-152-g6776228: Actually don't place Killer Klowns on Mnoleg's floor 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6776228e09c0 19:18:15 I was thinking maybe pizza is only pizza if you've set the pizza to something non-default and otherwise it has a less silly flavor. (This is bikeshedding....) 19:18:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 19:18:27 MarvinPA: don't you want to remove his af_klown as well, since that's the only think that makes killer p actually unique? 19:18:37 s/think/thing/ 19:18:39 -!- DrStalker_ has quit [] 19:18:39 slime mold 19:18:43 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:18:46 is recall the spell useful any more? 19:18:51 yes 19:18:59 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:14 maybe I'll push my controversial vault change to join MarvinPA's changes 19:19:42 03elliptic02 07* 0.17-a0-153-g97be282: Make alarm traps in fixed locations in V rooms known. 10(9 days ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=97be282fcd7f 19:20:11 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:20:24 uh oh, now people really will all flock to trunk over the tourney! 19:20:28 yep 19:20:59 (i'm just trying to at least slightly avoid massive post-tourney commitstorming, personally :P) 19:22:53 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:24:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:24:30 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:32 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:31 @??mnoleg 19:26:31 Mnoleg (09&) | Spd: 13 | HD: 17 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/25 | Dam: 4009(claw)12(klown), 3509(mutation), 3012(vuln), 2306(blink self) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 10820 | Sp: sum.eyeballs [06!sil], malign gateway [06!sil], sum.horrible things [06!sil] | Sz: La.. 19:26:40 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:27:04 I'll probably just remove the af_klown from that first attack, seeing as how he has 3 others anyhow 19:27:25 klawn 19:27:30 not sure what vuln achieves on him either really 19:27:41 yeah probably not much 19:27:45 i guess maybe a cacodemon will slow you 19:27:50 that's just mr- I guess 19:27:53 but probably not when you're surrounded by Xs anyway 19:28:06 he should have corrosion 19:28:12 to help all the Xs eat you 19:29:55 the future of crawl is monsters with 5 attack flavours each, stamping on a mountain dwarf face forever 19:30:47 elliptic: wow thanks for that, i was going to report that silly vault 19:30:48 (seriously monsters with 3 and 4 different attack flavours seems like some pretty serious complexity creep to me) 19:31:48 i meant instead of all the others 19:31:49 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:31:55 or maybe keeping mutation i guess 19:32:14 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15592 19:32:14 like why does he have blink self 19:32:35 blink self is from back when his melee didn't do anything 19:32:39 well, except for blinking him 19:34:32 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:34:45 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-154-g4beac09: Fully de-Klownify Mnoleg 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4beac0972165 19:36:41 not sure that the g. golem change is the best thing, but it's also a spell that would have a hard time working in another starting book 19:37:00 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:07 guardian golem is still a thing? 19:37:26 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:41 damn near every monster and spell on the minmay removal list is still a thing, god bless america 19:39:42 well cTele is one foot in the grave 19:40:13 -!- BiGuy has quit [] 19:42:32 that list wasn't really serious 19:42:37 but I'm definitely serious about guardian golem 19:42:55 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 19:44:01 -!- sgun_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:39 -!- mineral has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:43 Starting stats are checked with !stat is there one for start skills? 19:46:34 !stats hesu 19:46:48 !stat hesu 19:47:13 ??test 19:47:21 I've seen that work before. Maybe I'm forgetting what the command is. O_o; 19:47:24 -!- read has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:25 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:25 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:29 test[1/42]: blaargh blaargh blaargh blaargh blaargh 19:47:31 Starting stats for HESu: Str 7 Int 18 Dex 15. Stat gain: id/3 19:47:32 -!- TMTurtle__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:42 !cmd !stat 19:47:43 No command !stat 19:47:45 !cmd !stats 19:47:45 Command: !stats => .echo $(if (= (lower (sub 2 $1)) wn) "Wanderer starting stats are random. Stat gain: $(getldbsid (combo_to_race $1))" $(!lm * begin char=$1 $* x=str,int,dex fmt:"Starting stats for ${char}: Str $x[0] Int $x[1] Dex $x[2]. Stat gain: $(getldbsid (combo_to_race $1))" stub:"Go start a ${1:-?} if you want me to know its starting stats.")) 19:47:56 ah 19:48:26 yeah probably no such command since there's no milestone field that can get this 19:50:09 what the base is that human gets woud be a nice thing to look up fast *shrug* 19:50:43 they could be put in some invisible entry 19:50:45 well let us know when you've written said command *shrug* 19:50:57 that the command could read from 19:51:44 the formula might be simple enough that someone could !cmd it, yeah 19:53:06 skills are pretty easy to guess anyway 19:53:29 2-4 in all the skills related to your thing 19:53:35 who is the guy that redesigned the crawl webpage? 19:53:36 I'd suppose to make it a formula thing to look up any start, you'd just need...a lookup table with the human version; then a multiplier based on that race's apts. 19:53:36 -!- MakMorn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:03 03reaverb02 07* 0.17-a0-155-g14e20c2: Remove some code ID'ing distortion weapons if they banish the player 10(19 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=14e20c2fb325 19:54:21 twelwe: chequers 19:54:36 I think Wp starts with the most skill at 13. [of the ones I've looked up that's the highest; not necessarily actually the highest I haven't done every human background to check] 19:54:58 Hmm, on second thought "redundant" or "usless" code might have been the better description. >_> 19:55:42 thanks gammafunk. he did a DC:PT page and that needs to be updated soon. 19:56:07 twelwe: I can change the contents of that page at any time. and I will 19:56:20 is anything happening for april 1 19:56:21 you have access to my page? the page i don`t even have access to? 19:56:38 http://crawl.develz.org/pizza.htm 19:57:49 I don't anything as cool as nostalgia, since we've got tourney so close to april 1 19:58:21 we kind of did april 1 already in the 1st half of the tournament 19:58:55 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:25 -!- Amy is now known as Guest55115 19:59:29 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:57 Does anybody have anything for april 1st? I could try rushing that "elite" branch idea. (No vaults in level generation, all monsters speed 11 or greater, no randomized energy, Zot/Lair runes reduce to 1 floor, etc.) <_< 20:00:31 oh man i made a speed 11 patch 20:00:46 it was rad (it was pointless) 20:00:49 -!- plathrop has joined ##crawl-dev 20:01:05 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:01:27 Hello! I just encountered this message in-game on CBRO: https://gist.github.com/plathrop/3030c842028a55199827 - thought I'd mention it here in case that is useful. Any other info needed to help? 20:01:28 so, now that this is public: http://bazel.io 20:02:16 bh: I was thinking the same thing! 20:02:44 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:52 bh: bazel bildu 20:03:52 chequers: I've used it most days for the past three years and can say it's far and away better than any other build system I'm ever used 20:04:22 bh: well you'll need to get it ported to windows... 20:04:22 Zannick: lad lube biz? 20:04:38 bh: my one question is: does it really simplify the build of an old skool monolithic application like crawl? 20:04:54 well, I mean anything is better than makefile spaghetti 20:04:58 chequers: have you read out makefile? 20:05:01 our 20:05:09 I suspect it would... 20:05:25 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:25 but it would be nice at the same time to give some more structure to the codebase 20:05:38 since you can group stuff into libraries and say "this needs these" 20:05:56 gammafunk: who develops on windows? Samb? 20:06:14 uh 20:06:16 sigh 20:06:46 bh: wheals, Lasty, ontoclasm, lots of other contributers 20:07:00 not allowing windows devel would be a huge step backwards for the most part 20:07:20 I think even MarvinPA uses windows 20:07:33 gammafunk: they should file a support request with microsoft and ask for better POSIX compliance 20:07:36 sorry :< 20:07:48 not sure if serious 20:08:18 also, isn't windows posix compliant? 20:08:32 chequers: dunno, I'm just being contrary 20:08:47 specifically, it returns ENOTIMPLEMENTED for every posix function call :) 20:09:05 windows is ancient-posix compliant 20:09:14 ahoy doy 20:09:51 the impression i get is that windows fired everyone at their company who actually understood windows ages ago and has just been reskinning it for the past 8 years 20:09:56 that said, it's likely never going to be more than ancient-posix compliant, and making windows development harder is basically a non-starter for us 20:10:01 bh: you won't get any argument from me that we need a better build process (in terms of transparency) but it has to support unix, os x, and win 20:10:12 -!- mineral has quit [Quit: bye.] 20:10:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:03 gammafunk: is developing on a vm a non-starter? 20:11:37 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:28 If making a command to look up skills; what format would the lookup table of Hu start skills need to be in? 20:12:28 bh: I guess that's a conversation that could be had 20:12:36 this won't work for everyone, but I do all of my development on a pair of VMs 20:12:56 yeah the problem is memory overhead of a vm is substantial 20:13:01 wouldn't it be easier to develop on a better background like a Be or IE? 20:13:05 I mean wheals is running windows xp :( 20:13:07 and if folks can't run a vm locally, I'm willing upgrade my server and give out accounts 20:13:19 <|amethyst> bh: to everyone who wants to contribute to crawl? 20:13:23 bh: "run on bh's machine"..yes 20:13:45 i would be surprised if windows local tiles players weren't the majority of our player base 20:13:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:14:01 <|amethyst> would you continue working on crawl if we switched it to require cross-building on Windows to get Linux binaries? 20:14:01 so "give out accounts" isn't a particularly useful strategy 20:14:20 -!- plathrop has left ##crawl-dev 20:14:47 |amethyst: no. Though I'm actually surprised to find windows considered as a serious environment for writing code 20:14:48 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 20:14:51 it's not even a matter of whether an already committed dev would quit or not 20:15:02 it's a matter of being able to attract new contributors 20:15:15 bh: the vast majority of programmers do it, so 20:16:23 <|amethyst> VS is a much nicer environment for that than mingw though 20:16:33 we support vs, don't we? 20:16:39 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 20:16:40 <|amethyst> kind of 20:16:50 <|amethyst> I don't think anyone's tested it since the C++11 switch 20:16:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:09 ah, didn't realize that 20:17:32 <|amethyst> though presumably you can edit in VS and call out to msys make 20:17:38 sure 20:17:45 <|amethyst> I think that's how mumra works 20:17:57 that's how i worked a few jobs ago 20:18:35 i wonder if it'd be worth providing vs solution files that have that preconfigured 20:19:26 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:13 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:23:14 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:48 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:24:25 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:26:32 I've got no data on how widespread windows is among developers. My skewed sample contains approximately zero windows developers. 20:29:21 * bh hasn't used windows in 11 years 20:29:32 bh: well ask yourself how prevelant is the windows operating system, then ask what does that likely mean for the prevalence of windows programmers 20:30:19 of course defining "windows programmer" or even "linux programmer" might be kind of hard in the first place 20:30:49 gammafunk: my cognitive biases suggest that "I use windows" and "I write code" are anti-correlated 20:31:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:31:07 that's true but not very relevant 20:32:12 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:32:32 i love my windows 7! 20:32:48 I do not love windows 8 20:32:55 i prefer windows 12 20:32:59 what were they thinking... 20:34:33 i can do damn near anything on this machine. windows just makes things like typing and sending emails easier. i hope i can always play crawl on windows and wouldn`t know what to do if you stopped. thats what this is about right? 20:35:51 twelwe: I'm suggesting killing windows as a development environment, not an environment for play 20:35:51 no one else is going to go along with it though. Mostly because they're reasonable 20:35:55 if they're so reasonable... why are they developing crawl 20:35:59 checkmate 20:36:02 owned...... 20:37:55 -!- gammafunk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:08 -!- SpaceCob has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:44:18 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:50 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:48:13 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:56 one of my clan members works at ms and devs primarily in windows and after looking at @crawlcode told me he'd never write a patch 20:54:50 ebering: once I showed @crawlcode to someone and it was my code 20:55:17 ebering: I do worry crawlcode kinda discourages that. I've showed it to somebody else who plays and the laughed and said the same thing D: 20:55:53 reaverb: I think it is more to do with writing code for a job saps a lot of peoples write code at home instinct 20:56:10 Hmm, maybe. 20:56:23 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:57:40 -!- KamiKarze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:58:06 there was a blog post on some opinionated developer's blog a while ago (4 years now) that had the line "There is nothing at all appealing about spending my weekend solving Project Euler problems in Haskell. Gouging out my eyballs with a spoon sounds better." 21:00:00 a minority of programmers do serious spare time programming 21:00:20 but that minority consider themselves "normal" and get surprised when they discover they're the odd ones out 21:00:32 cf that story and bh's "nobody uses windows" 21:02:42 -!- rubycowgames has quit [Quit: rubycowgames] 21:06:09 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:08:56 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:57 Does being attacked by a Water Elemental prevent a creature without !Sil from casting? [in other words does Engulf work on foes?] 21:09:24 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:37 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:11:15 -!- maha_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150320202338]] 21:12:18 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:13:00 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:02 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 21:17:49 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:07 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:50 -!- lukano has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:54 -!- Spatzist has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:27 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:29:34 -!- Jonatan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:17 -!- lukano has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:10 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan 21:38:10 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 21:44:46 -!- TF_ is now known as Guest19785 21:47:08 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:22 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:42 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:51:14 -!- karekanol13 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:33 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 21:54:33 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:09 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 21:57:07 |amethyst: does it bother you that we don't put up source tarballs? I've gotten a few requests for it, but I don't care terribly much either way 21:57:42 gammafunk: it bothers me 21:57:43 gammafunk: go do it 21:57:49 aw me 21:57:55 I bother you, Grunt? ;_; 21:57:59 yes 21:58:00 *aw man 21:58:12 go satisfy my slightest whims immediately 21:58:20 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: Grunt doesn't like me...;_;] 21:58:21 your standing may improve infintesimally in my eyes if you do so 21:58:25 rip 21:58:31 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:11 !tell gammafunk the great thing about removing ignite poison is that it allows you to remove poisonous corpses 22:02:11 minmay: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 22:02:26 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:54 gammafunk: so, want to fix poisonous corpses 22:03:54 gammafunk: well, https://github.com/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/archive/0.16.1.tar.gz 22:04:09 doy: hrm 22:04:09 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 22:04:38 we also have a nodeps tarball for unix, but 22:04:55 maybe just linking to that is the best thing since we don't even have to host it 22:05:21 well 22:05:24 doy: I wonder, does that archive get purged or anything? 22:05:30 probably not until we switch to github, but 22:05:46 gammafunk: it comes from https://github.com/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/releases so i doubt it 22:06:03 it's autogenerated based on tagging 22:06:10 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:13 huh, how does it know that a tag is a release though? 22:06:19 is it just any annotated tag? 22:06:25 yeah, i think so 22:06:37 well that seems reasonable then 22:06:51 the zip file is also like over 3x as much as the tarball :/ 22:07:05 oh and it makes a zip! 22:07:14 heh, yeah I think we clearly should just link to this 22:07:32 the only thing this doesn't have is the nodeps version 22:08:34 yeah, but honestly, i can't imagine that making a meaningful difference 22:08:35 minmay: no you make ignite poison work on all natural enemies with rpois 22:08:38 nice try minmay 22:09:08 I'll just add a blurb in the source section 22:09:16 maybe a link as well 22:09:33 oh, hmmm 22:09:38 gammafunk: should work on demons with rpois too, surely 22:09:44 it looks like those are no-deps versions 22:10:26 doy: ah, that would make sense 22:10:51 so it'd be less convenient for people who do need the deps 22:11:35 Well I could put up the fulldep version in one format 22:11:42 and link to the github tag page 22:11:44 Re: earlier convo on developing on windows, the patch I posted a few hours ago was written in vs but built in msys, as |amethyst suggested would work 22:11:51 and that's probably what I'll do with the future ones 22:12:09 speaking as a random person who is seeing if they want to work on the crawl code by trying it 22:12:17 (I would also be fine doing a linux vm though) 22:12:46 oh, hmmm 22:12:57 it looks like github allows you to upload binaries associated with a release? 22:13:21 https://github.com/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/releases/new?tag=0.16.1 22:13:32 (I did try building in VS directly, btw, and it gave me errors about project files missing. I figured I was doing it wrong but maybe it was a "not checked since C++11" problem) 22:13:42 so could possibly just stick the version with deps there, if that works 22:13:58 -!- inyotech has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:14:31 doy: that link might only work for you as repo admin? 22:14:38 just takes me to github home page 22:14:42 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:46 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:58 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:23 oh, i thought i gave admin rights to everyone 22:15:27 do you have a github account? 22:15:33 yeah I'm not sure if that's the issue 22:15:41 doy: yeah, I'm just gammafunk on github 22:20:28 now that 0.16 is out the door, who wants to pitch in on greenlight? 22:20:35 pretty screenshots are a must have, and my writing is shite 22:23:55 -!- meatpath has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:58 what kind of writing do you need? 22:24:11 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:54 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 22:26:51 -!- Walker_Z has joined ##crawl-dev 22:27:33 -!- FatShack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:25 -!- Guest19785 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:37 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:38 -!- unpaidbill has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:38 -!- mspang has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:53 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:29:01 -!- Walker_Z is now known as WalkerBoh 22:29:57 -!- FatShack has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:31:55 -!- Gamesmaster1965_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:25 -!- dsfsdf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:36:29 -!- FatShack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:21 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:38:58 -!- FatShack has joined ##crawl-dev 22:40:06 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:34 ??ring of the octopus king 22:46:07 probably a known issue, but sequell isn't responding? 22:47:52 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:49:52 -!- Eksell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:50:12 ring of the octopus king[1/1]: Crawl's first set item. Each ring gives +1 to AC, EV, Str, Int, and Dex. There are eight of them - and eight can spawn per game - with each providing an additional power unique to that ring (one property out of Regen, rF+, rC+, SustAb, Stealth+, Wizardry, MP+, rN+). 22:50:41 -!- Eksell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:37 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:58 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:37 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:55:37 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 22:58:53 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.1/20150305021524]] 22:59:34 -!- Lamil has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 23:01:37 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:36 -!- WhodaMan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:05:34 -!- soundlust_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:10 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:53 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 23:09:03 -!- joy1999 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:38 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:27 -!- joy1999 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:41 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:11:24 !lm * cwz x=vlong 23:11:25 70942. [2015-03-24 19:49:15] [vlong=0.16.0-4-g7e54fe0] sadbull the Shield-Bearer (L9 VSFi of Trog) killed Eustachio on turn 5275. (D:7) 23:14:03 gammafunk: cwz has been down for several hours now btw 23:14:13 elliptic: yeah I just saw 23:14:13 ??is cwz down 23:14:14 I don't have a page labeled is_cwz_down in my learndb. 23:14:23 wondering if maybe hong is working on it 23:14:27 is cwz down?? 23:14:27 8 hours, 25 minutes, 12 seconds since last activity (cwz) 23:14:50 there are now multiple translations in korean of my 0.16.1 wordpress post on that korean RL forum 23:15:00 so hopefully he will or has noticed... 23:15:10 seems possible, yes 23:18:11 -!- Grujah has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:18:59 octopus rungs should probably get +2 instead of +1 nowadays 23:21:41 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:03 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:05 -!- ZebTM has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:25:30 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:28:55 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:33 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:33:10 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:34:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:43:28 bh: what are your greenlight plans btw? need help? 23:43:37 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:44:23 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:53:49 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:54:52 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:57:19 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:27 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf]