00:00:08 dunno who that is exactly 00:00:14 probably some tiles person 00:00:19 I have no idea who it could be 00:00:26 some nerd 00:01:14 odd, that link isn't displaying for me 00:01:22 wow, rchandra! 00:01:35 he lives 00:02:02 crawl was being weird so I had to take a break, the tournament seemed a fine time to try again 00:02:12 wb 00:02:31 PleasingFungus: I hope you don't actually need an answer to that 14 week old message 00:02:40 I 00:02:41 uh 00:02:44 I have no idea what it was 00:02:53 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:58 PleasingFungus said (14w 1d 8h 47m 39s ago): Sorry, what was " because it was an artefact book " in response to? 00:02:58 rip 00:03:04 huh 00:03:06 mysteries upon mystries 00:03:12 hi rchandra! 00:03:15 lotta rs returning tonight 00:03:19 It was probably something about a jelly not eating it 00:03:35 <|amethyst> n1k: I... I don't think that's what "pvp" means 00:03:38 or the useless names maybe 00:04:03 |amethyst: hm I believe it's as good as we get in Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup 00:04:20 !gkills 00:04:21 38 kills by gammafunk's ghost: 5x gammafunk, keeo, exith, palunkus, Wolfechu, rubinko, MoogleDan, superfun, lordmilkman, Rahsegel, guido, Tiz, happinesssam, Samir, qtip, tempest67, LogicNinja, flaco, Deprived, Poncheis, PrincessAutism, jejorda2, Miron, omoto, TheQuake, timbw, youknowme, robotron1971, zzyzx, Zeal, silentflume, Assbag, flammie, vcordie 00:04:27 !gkills n1000 00:04:28 11 kills by n1000's ghost: 2x n1000, airplanedan, henwen, lessens, Garrluk, Pidr, Fungus, braveplatypus, tcjsavannah, Disco 00:04:30 get on my level 00:04:40 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:41 orb of ice (12*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 9612 | Sp: glaciate (10-198) [06!sil] | Sz: little | Int: normal. 00:04:41 %??orb of ice 00:04:43 <|amethyst> FR: Castle Defender: Cerebov Soup 00:04:53 <|amethyst> you control Cerebov in actual DCSS games 00:05:09 !gkillratio gammafunk 00:05:12 gammafunk's ghost wins 5.900% of battles. 00:05:17 !gkillratio 00:05:17 sad. 00:05:20 <|amethyst> !gkillratio . 00:05:22 Basil's ghost wins 2.857% of battles. 00:05:24 |amethyst's ghost wins 16.75% of battles. 00:05:24 I wonder what percentage of characters can kill a cerebov that spams fiends or firestorms 00:05:25 hmm 00:05:29 wow basil that's the best I've ever seen 00:05:45 none of my characters learn dangerous spells and die 00:05:50 yeah 00:05:59 I very strongly suspect gkillratio is just inversely correlated with winrate 00:05:59 <|amethyst> none of my characters don't die 00:06:00 because none of my characters learn spells 00:06:12 earlier ghosts are dramatically nastier than later ones, even later ones with good spells 00:06:19 !hs . vmsg~~miscast 00:06:19 <|amethyst> yeah 00:06:20 1. hyperrchandra the Martial Artist (L12 DgTm), killed by miscasting Fulminant Prism on Lair:5 on 2013-03-03 01:41:07, with 31707 points after 23151 turns and 2:54:53. 00:06:21 it's pretty well correlated 00:06:23 or, dramatically more likely to get kills, certainly 00:06:25 but not exactly 00:06:38 hm 00:06:46 !lg . !won s=god 00:06:46 256 games for Basil (!won): 94x, 40x Xom, 19x Yredelemnul, 19x Okawaru, 13x Trog, 11x Kikubaaqudgha, 9x Fedhas, 9x Makhleb, 8x Elyvilon, 8x Lugonu, 6x Nemelex Xobeh, 5x Vehumet, 4x Ashenzari, 3x Sif Muna, 3x Dithmenos, 2x Cheibriados, Zin, Qazlal, Gozag 00:07:00 !gkillratio . char!=heie|hesu|deie|desu|mibe 00:07:02 gammafunk's ghost wins 6.756% of battles against gammafunk. 00:07:06 oh 00:07:13 looking worse 00:07:16 that probably doesn't work 00:07:34 !gkillratio . 00:07:37 Bloax's ghost wins 8.177% of battles. 00:07:44 in that I'm trying to see for not speedrun ghosts 00:07:45 scary 00:08:11 -!- ythm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:08:17 -!- G-Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:19 ghosts 00:08:28 !hs * current vmsg~~miscast 00:08:30 440. olXor the Divine Porcupine (L27 DgIE), slain by a small abomination (summoned by miscasting Haunt) in Pandemonium (pan_disco_hall) on 2015-03-10 18:23:15, with 1165733 points after 192925 turns and 18:04:28. 00:08:31 !hs * current vmsg~~wrath 00:08:33 1363. asd1213 the Wrestler (L27 TrHu of Cheibriados), slain by an angel (a +3 whip of holy wrath) (kmap: enter_ziggurat_pan_d) in Pandemonium on 2014-11-09 13:28:25, with 802731 points after 51428 turns and 3:30:37. 00:08:36 starrow, icicle, fireball 00:09:04 wow, tso -> chei 00:09:25 going slightly fast 00:09:37 !hs * current vmsg~~wrath x=urune 00:09:39 1363. [urune=6] asd1213 the Wrestler (L27 TrHu of Cheibriados), slain by an angel (a +3 whip of holy wrath) (kmap: enter_ziggurat_pan_d) in Pandemonium on 2014-11-09 13:28:25, with 802731 points after 51428 turns and 3:30:37. 00:09:46 not very though 00:10:07 !lg * recent vmsg~~wrath xl>21 min=turn 00:10:11 79. kalpa the Executioner (L22 MiBe of Makhleb), mangled by a daeva (a +2 eudemon blade of holy wrath) (summoned by a seraph) in Pandemonium (evilmike_holy_pan) on 2015-02-02 10:08:02, with 465502 points after 21127 turns and 3:12:28. 00:10:18 shame 00:10:21 woulda been a sick run 00:10:29 yeah, that's quick 00:10:48 hmm 00:10:53 !hs * he-- 00:10:54 198381. PurpleRed the Elven Blade (L27 HESk of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-06-23 09:48:31, with 37104810 points after 39325 turns and 15:43:48. 00:10:58 !lg * recent vmsg~~wrath xl>21 min=turn x=urune 00:11:02 79. [urune=5] kalpa the Executioner (L22 MiBe of Makhleb), mangled by a daeva (a +2 eudemon blade of holy wrath) (summoned by a seraph) in Pandemonium (evilmike_holy_pan) on 2015-02-02 10:08:02, with 465502 points after 21127 turns and 3:12:28. 00:11:05 !lm * he-- rune min=turns 00:11:07 why you gotta rub it in basil 00:11:22 I don't know 00:11:33 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:33 !lm * he-- rune min=turns 00:11:36 12800. [2015-02-28 17:23:50] gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna) found a barnacled rune of Zot on turn 7735. (Shoals:5) 00:11:39 eat that herbboy 00:11:42 -!- read has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:48 12800. [2015-02-28 17:23:50] gammafunk the Summoner (L12 HESu of Sif Muna) found a barnacled rune of Zot on turn 7735. (Shoals:5) 00:12:10 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 00:12:13 !lg gammafunk ktyp=quitting max=urune 00:12:15 1039. gammafunk the Demonologist (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:1 on 2014-02-22 20:26:26, with 941018 points after 49424 turns and 12:08:34. 00:12:28 !lg gammafunk ktyp=quitting max=urune x=urune 00:12:29 1039. [urune=15] gammafunk the Demonologist (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:1 on 2014-02-22 20:26:26, with 941018 points after 49424 turns and 12:08:34. 00:12:57 !hs * place=d:1 00:12:59 1106431. gammafunk the Demonologist (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:1 on 2014-02-22 20:26:26, with 941018 points after 49424 turns and 12:08:34. 00:13:03 only score that matters imo 00:13:26 !hs * place=d 00:13:30 3703006. Sapher the Genius of the Arcane (L26 NaWz of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-10-05 09:05:14, with 65369553 points after 21895 turns and 15:06:14. 00:13:34 !hs * place=d:2 00:13:36 614710. Lawman0 the Imperceptible (L27 NaEE of Cheibriados), blasted by Twihuuru the pandemonium lord (chain lightning) on D:2 on 2012-01-08 22:04:32, with 837692 points after 132606 turns and 11:10:23. 00:13:41 ouch 00:13:58 !hs * place=d:2 x=dam,tdam 00:14:00 614710. [dam=26;tdam=84] Lawman0 the Imperceptible (L27 NaEE of Cheibriados), blasted by Twihuuru the pandemonium lord (chain lightning) on D:2 on 2012-01-08 22:04:32, with 837692 points after 132606 turns and 11:10:23. 00:16:08 !hs . quit 00:16:09 349. minmay the Kobold Arbalest (L26 KoBe of Trog), quit the game on Vaults:4 on 2014-01-15 03:19:56, with 471836 points after 65411 turns and 2:50:47. 00:17:27 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:18:01 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:18:13 !hs * quit 00:18:14 396559. megane the Farming Swordmaster (L27 MDPa of The Shining One), quit the game in Hell on 2007-04-30 22:02:51, with 1821102 points after 221091 turns and 23:02:06. 00:18:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:18:43 !hs * !won 00:18:46 4020402. xomscumming the Farming Slayer (L27 MuCK of Lugonu), blasted by Maurice (wand of fire) on D:23 on 2011-09-05 16:50:25, with 27000000 points after 478185 turns and 1d+16:21:24. 00:19:35 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:23 !hs * current quit 00:20:24 45212. belag the Grand Master (L27 OpTm of Cheibriados), quit the game in Hell (vestibule_of_hell_subvaulted; vestibule_geryon_old) on 2015-03-02 09:35:46, with 1486672 points after 153889 turns and 1d+3:35:21. 00:20:37 !hs * current quit x=hp 00:20:39 45212. [hp=220] belag the Grand Master (L27 OpTm of Cheibriados), quit the game in Hell (vestibule_of_hell_subvaulted; vestibule_geryon_old) on 2015-03-02 09:35:46, with 1486672 points after 153889 turns and 1d+3:35:21. 00:20:43 hm 00:21:06 the orb run definitely inspires strong opinions 00:23:24 !hs . !won 00:23:25 3226. minmay the Farming Archmage (L27 MuWn of Sif Muna), slain by an Orb Guardian on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2011-07-18 20:05:19, with 920448 points after 236662 turns and 11:29:55. 00:23:41 wow, a farming zot death 00:24:58 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:00 gammafunk: you should watch it before you pass judgement 00:26:06 !hs . !won -tv 00:26:08 3226. minmay, XL27 MuWn, T:236662 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 00:26:19 ... 00:26:20 !hs . !won -tv 00:26:21 3226. minmay, XL27 MuWn, T:236662 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 00:26:22 mmm 00:26:29 did i miss a good game 00:26:29 oh 00:26:31 oh 00:26:35 cdo!!! 00:26:36 old cdo ttyrec 00:26:44 what happened to those again? 00:27:00 I didn't realize that game was on cdo 00:27:08 that disk corruption, I guess many were lost? 00:27:13 hmm 00:27:17 oh well 00:27:17 !log . !won max=sc 00:27:18 3226. minmay, XL27 MuWn, T:236662: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/minmay/morgue-minmay-20110718-200519.txt 00:27:24 ??adom[$ 00:27:24 adom[2/2]: Pacra: i've been playing for two months and am still at the character creation screen :U 00:27:25 <|amethyst> it wasn't disk corruption 00:27:32 I do seem to recall nap.kin saying that only some not-terribly-important stuff was lost, but maybe ttyrecs were also lost 00:27:49 <|amethyst> it's that when the disk crashed, everything had to be moved to a different smaller server 00:27:54 ah, ok 00:27:55 <|amethyst> and there wasn't room for the ttyrecs 00:28:04 Slain by an Orb Guardian (26 damage) 00:28:05 <|amethyst> and nap didn't realise he could just hand them off the snark 00:28:07 ... while paralysed 00:28:20 all ttyrecs were lost...some classic tv gone 00:28:21 <|amethyst> and/or didn't have time to do so 00:28:27 <|amethyst> ??neil 00:28:27 neil[1/3]: !lg neil 3512 -tv 00:28:30 <|amethyst> that one 00:28:31 ah, eldritch tentacle 00:29:07 were eldritch tentacles in minmay's monster removal list 00:29:49 nope 00:30:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:31:24 weird 00:31:26 why not 00:32:11 PleasingFungus: I guess tagging 0.16 this evening would be a thing to do 00:32:20 lil past evening 00:32:28 yeah I meant 00:32:38 I was trying to be precise but it didn't work 00:32:51 wednesday evening 00:32:58 oh 00:32:58 <|amethyst> I think ebering had some bugfix patches he thought should go in? 00:33:13 on mantis? 00:33:19 <|amethyst> ??ebering 00:33:20 ebering[1/1]: bugfixes (patches on corresponding bugs): 9512, 8934 00:33:26 !bug 9512 00:33:27 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9512 00:33:52 !function is_launched 00:33:53 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc;hb=HEAD#l2011 00:34:34 guess that is poorly named like he says 00:34:38 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:35:15 !bug 8934 00:35:15 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8934 00:35:59 <|amethyst> hm 00:36:09 <|amethyst> not that it matters now 00:36:44 <|amethyst> but I think that "|| (you.weapon() && check_warning_inscriptions)" should be || !you.weapon() || check_warning_inscriptions 00:37:08 <|amethyst> doesn't matter because if there's no weapon is_launched wouldn't return LRET_LAUNCHED anyway 00:38:09 <|amethyst> but if something changes so there can be launched ammo without a weapon, the lack of weapon probably shouldn't make it not fire 00:39:06 that second patch might be a little tricky for me to verify. I wont be around till later tomorrow evening,but if those aren't merged I can take a look 00:39:38 I'll just check again if there's anything outstanding before I tag (or someone else can tag, of course) 00:40:00 |amethyst: you don't happen to know of nap.kin needs help with setting up the apt repo beyond need the debs, do you? 00:40:17 <|amethyst> I don't know 00:40:21 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:51 well I'll ask him when we've tagged 00:43:45 -!- meatpath has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:30 gammafunk: If you want to fix the shadow creatures bug, putting a check in pick_random_monster() of mon-place.cc would probably be best (see where it calls _apply_ood()). IDK the best way to pass that information into the function though, maybe adding SHADOW_CREATURES_MONSTER to the list. 00:44:56 oh 00:45:10 err, adding a SHADOW_CREATUES_MONSTER enum to the monsters enum list, and then treating it like RANDOM_MONSTER on the checks for it. 00:45:22 -!- read has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:29 I'd do it myself but compilation on my machine has been broken for like, 2 months. 00:45:37 rip 00:45:44 do you use cygwin? 00:45:44 <|amethyst> I tried a different way 00:45:53 I have a new machine I just haven't bother to unback yet <_< >_> 00:46:04 n1k: several years old mac (Snow Leopard) 00:46:17 I was just wondering if it was a funny coincidence, 00:46:42 <|amethyst> which was to add mgen flag MG_NO_OOD, a parameter respect_ood_timer to resolve_monster_type and pick_random_monster 00:46:45 <|amethyst> but 00:46:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:23 <|amethyst> I think skipping _apply_ood altogether would be something of a nerf 00:47:45 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:58 nerf to shadow creatures/rod of shadows? 00:48:02 <|amethyst> yes 00:48:06 that's ok 00:48:07 <|amethyst> since OODs are possible without the timer 00:48:17 <|amethyst> also to shadow traps 00:48:17 I hear they're OP anyway :) 00:48:21 likewise! 00:48:25 also, wasn't someone going to remove those 00:48:31 by someone I think I mean elliptic 00:48:51 |amethyst: by that do you mean that sometimes normal monster pick draws ood? 00:49:06 even if the ood timer is not reached 00:49:09 Yes. 00:49:17 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes, most of the chances are scaled by the time elapsed 00:49:23 huh 00:49:41 <|amethyst> well 00:49:44 but shouldn't we consider shadow c. to be time elapsed 0? 00:49:47 <|amethyst> not "scaled", that implies linear 00:49:55 <|amethyst> yeah, that was my thought 00:50:06 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:50:09 yeah I don't see how shadow c should know about how long you've been on the level 00:50:09 <|amethyst> so add the respect_ood_timer parameter to _apply_ood too 00:50:33 <|amethyst> but if removing OODs from shadow creature spawns anyway is good, then maybe skipping it is fine 00:50:59 I think it would kind of weird for shadow creatures to differ from time 0 dungeon spawns. 00:51:13 <|amethyst> I guess having a small chance for a really good creature (for the level/power) just encourages you to repeat and rest until you get something good, before going into combat 00:51:28 <|amethyst> but having a variable monster list does that anyway so 00:51:33 yeah the whole point of that timer is to send more hostile things to the player 00:51:36 <|amethyst> it's kind of inherent to shadow creatures 00:51:49 so it doesn't make sense to me that it would also be used to send better friendly things to the player 00:52:08 <|amethyst> so add the flag to _apply_ood too, then turns = respect_ood_timer ? env.turns_on_level : 0 00:52:08 s/more hostile/more dangerous hostile/ 00:52:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: right right 00:52:23 |amethyst: agreed that it's kind of inherent, but there's no need to exacerbate it... 00:52:30 especially if the code is simpler otherwise :) 00:52:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the question is just whether to give no OODs, or 0-turns-elapsed OODs 00:52:41 ah, well latter would be fine 00:53:05 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:19 but yeah I mean, I doubt it's much of a nerf if you do former anyhow, and the effect is already very strong 00:53:36 <|amethyst> okay, let's see if I can replicate this then 00:53:49 <|amethyst> I didn't think to stash it before resetting 00:53:55 <|amethyst> s/before/instead of/ 00:54:31 Oh, one more thing: _in_ood_pack_protected_place() in...mon_place.cc also I think is called in place_monster and depends on the OOD timer. 00:54:40 It does something weird w/OOD packs. 00:54:52 <|amethyst> oh, that was the other thing 00:54:59 man I really read stash it and then saw "resting" instead of resetting, and was thinking "what is neil doing in wiz mode, exactly" 00:55:03 <|amethyst> bands wouldn't be affected 00:55:23 <|amethyst> or non-leader band members 00:55:25 going to L:2 rod stash to get rod of shadows 00:56:31 <|amethyst> err, BAND_RANDOM_SINGLE I mean 00:56:41 <|amethyst> I guess that's minor 00:58:49 !lg * src=cwz 00:58:50 9999. gmalak the Shield-Bearer (L1 GrFi), got out of the dungeon alive on 2015-03-11 05:45:15, with 0 points after 1 turn and 0:00:09. 00:59:01 hey, 10k games coming up 00:59:32 Not possible, 9999 is the damage cap 00:59:48 !lg * src=cwz 00:59:49 9999. gmalak the Shield-Bearer (L1 GrFi), got out of the dungeon alive on 2015-03-11 05:45:15, with 0 points after 1 turn and 0:00:09. 01:00:45 !lg * src=cwz 01:00:46 10000. gammafunk the Caller (L1 HESu), got out of the dungeon alive on 2015-03-11 06:01:13, with 0 points after 17 turns and 0:00:10. 01:00:52 magicpoints: what do you have to say now 01:01:08 !lg * src=cwz !boring 01:01:09 8482. gmalak the Shield-Bearer (L7 MiFi), slain by Menkaure on D:4 on 2015-03-11 05:44:42, with 644 points after 2538 turns and 0:09:30. 01:01:23 ??cwz 01:01:24 cwz[1/1]: Crawl server (webtiles-only) located in Korea; the server admin goes by hong on irc. http://webzook.net/ 01:01:50 south korea is big into e-gaming, so of course they're trying to recruit me 01:02:33 I hear you are quickly becoming twitter famous 01:02:57 comes with the lifestyle 01:06:07 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:09 you ruined game 1000 :| 01:08:16 !lg * src=cpo 01:08:17 2727. Hocus the Firebug (L3 DEFE), shot by a goblin (sling bullet of flame) on D:2 on 2015-03-11 03:13:54, with 28 points after 970 turns and 0:03:26. 01:08:23 aus so tiny 01:09:29 gammafunk: ...what were you doing for those 17 turns? 01:09:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:10:32 <|amethyst> anyone I should credit for discovering the bug? 01:10:49 <|amethyst> err, the tech I mean 01:13:01 -!- hanshenrik_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:05 a mystery... 01:15:56 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0/20150222232811]] 01:15:59 <|amethyst> ??rod of shadows 01:15:59 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-65-gc96cd5b (34) 01:16:00 rod of shadows[1/2]: Creates shadow creatures from a D level based on your evocations skill. Really bad with low evoc. 01:16:03 <|amethyst> ??rod of shadows[2] 01:16:03 rod of shadows[2/2]: Since it uses the OOD timer, waiting around for a huge amount of time on the floor equal to your evoc will get you similar or better results for less investment. 01:16:33 <|amethyst> oh 01:16:38 <|amethyst> that isn't quite right anyway 01:16:55 <|amethyst> it's based on how long you've spent on the current level, not the level the summon is being drawn from 01:17:22 What why does that use the OOD timer 01:17:26 How does that make any sense 01:17:31 <|amethyst> !learn edit rod_of_shadows[2] s/the floor.*evoc/your current floor/ 01:17:32 rod of shadows[2/2]: Since it uses the OOD timer, waiting around for a huge amount of time on your current floor will get you similar or better results for less investment. 01:17:38 <|amethyst> magicpoints: right, I'm fixing that :) 01:18:14 Does regular Shadow Creatures do that? 01:20:31 It "should" unless they use differant functions for no reason. 01:21:13 Yes regular Shadow Creatures currently has the same bug. 01:23:09 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:55 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 01:28:04 -!- Ystah has quit [] 01:31:01 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:32:02 <|amethyst> oh, slimifying corporeal undead 01:32:34 <|amethyst> what should happen? 01:33:26 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-66-g328ef0e: Don't generate OODs from Shadow Creatures. 10(13 minutes ago, 4 files, 24+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=328ef0e6be54 01:33:27 03|amethyst02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16-b1-50-gfa2055b: Don't generate OODs from Shadow Creatures. 10(13 minutes ago, 4 files, 24+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa2055bef4e2 01:34:12 <|amethyst> because I'm pretty sure the current behaviour is not it 01:34:47 <|amethyst> bat zombie (fellow slime) 01:34:55 <|amethyst> it's based on how long you've spent on the current level, not the level the summon is being drawn from 01:35:02 so I parked like 30 mucks for nothing 01:35:15 I probably should have looked at the actual code more carefully 01:35:19 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:38:34 <|amethyst> yeah, I missed that the first time 01:39:24 <|amethyst> until I noticed that at 0 evo it gives monsters from ~D:6 01:39:47 <|amethyst> but I had been spending time on D:1 and was definitely getting OODs even for D:6 01:40:18 <|amethyst> At first I thought my fix didn't work because I was still getting things like scorpions, because I was thinking it would be D:1 monsters 01:42:48 <|amethyst> !learn edit rod_of_shadows[2] s/s the OOD timer/d the OOD timer prior to 0.16/ 01:42:49 rod of shadows[2/2]: Since it used the OOD timer prior to 0.16, waiting around for a huge amount of time on your current floor will get you similar or better results for less investment. 01:42:58 <|amethyst> !learn edit rod_of_shadows[2] s/will/would/ 01:42:59 rod of shadows[2/2]: Since it used the OOD timer prior to 0.16, waiting around for a huge amount of time on your current floor would get you similar or better results for less investment. 01:45:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:46:51 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:53:09 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.17-a0-66-g328ef0e 01:57:46 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:57:57 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:04:01 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:07:21 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 02:11:40 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:14:15 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:34 -!- WalrusKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:17:43 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:44 The build passed. (unrand_tweaks - 46b924f #1951 : Brendan Hickey): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/53902337 02:17:44 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 02:19:05 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 02:19:06 The build passed. (rotten - b2acc8c #1951 : Brendan Hickey): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/53902338 02:19:06 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 02:21:35 -!- heteroy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:41 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:23:30 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-b1-50-gfa2055b 02:24:34 -!- soundlust_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:24 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:30:37 -!- wya has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:30 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:35:58 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:36:56 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:17 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.17-a0-66-g328ef0e (34) 02:39:02 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:40:35 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:17 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:41:18 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:57 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:51 -!- rockit has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:46:55 -!- rockit_ is now known as rockit 02:47:20 Webtiles server restarted. 02:48:27 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:25 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:18 -!- johlstei_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:58:20 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:07:23 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:05 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [] 03:13:35 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:14:48 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:32 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:27:33 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 03:28:15 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:45:51 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:51 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:58:28 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:58:49 -!- tw12we has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:59:49 -!- siepu has quit [Client Quit] 04:05:52 -!- muravey_ has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 04:06:00 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:06:20 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:06:52 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:08:33 -!- speranza has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:10:49 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:02 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:15:00 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:16:29 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:56 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:41 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:24:28 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:31:31 -!- n1k has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:33:56 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:33:57 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:37:37 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:42:17 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:48:09 -!- bencryption has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:26 -!- lagged has joined ##crawl-dev 04:49:45 hmm, is there a 0.16 beta build for tiles/OSX floating around? 04:49:56 internet is too poo here for webtiles :( 04:50:21 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:29 -!- tstbtto has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:38 Feature Request: meta-crosstraining 04:51:20 Training polearms gives you halved bonuses on the weapon skills that crosstrain from its crosstrained skills 04:52:01 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 05:02:23 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:45 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:54 -!- ly^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:13:09 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:24:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:46 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:33 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:02 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:59 -!- ly_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:35:46 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:53:39 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 06:05:53 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:13:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:13:46 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:13:47 -!- nnmapp has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:09 Xom just swapped me into a spider vault 06:15:16 Does this check to see if you actually have a way out without starving to death 06:19:02 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:47 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:20 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:24:30 I'm trying to compile crawl on Debian 7; it lacks sdl2-image (and maybe other things). How do I make crawl use stuff in contrib? (are there some flags like USE_CONTRIB or something? right now make crashes because it can't find SDL2/SDL.h) 06:31:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:36:16 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:37:41 -!- HordaLibra has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:06 -!- AnimeMarathon has joined ##crawl-dev 06:38:25 -!- syraine has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:38:35 Dear Sir or Madam, is there a 0.17 development plan yet? 06:39:04 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:42:21 I suppose not 06:42:31 -!- AnimeMarathon has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:55 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 06:49:06 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:15 -!- nnmapp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:52:13 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:55:48 what do you mean by plan? 06:56:23 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 06:56:29 see https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:0.16_plans for some general notes 06:57:08 -!- rophy has quit [Client Quit] 06:58:15 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:42 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:42 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 07:03:59 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:37 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:05:37 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 07:06:08 -!- lessens has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:45 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:09:24 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:14:27 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:16:54 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:01 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:22:25 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:38:02 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:05 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:17 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:43:09 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:45:28 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:47:22 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:50:25 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:41 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:09 -!- Peregrine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:52:26 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:37 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:19 so no recent OSX tiles builds then? 08:10:25 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:25 Did all the bots crash at once? The main channel just went very oddly silent. No updates, no nothing. 08:13:27 !echo I didn't crash. 08:13:34 ?? test 08:13:35 test[1/42]: blaargh blaargh blaargh blaargh blaargh 08:13:48 ?? echo I didn't crash 08:13:49 I don't have a page labeled echo_I_didn't_crash in my learndb. 08:13:51 aw 08:13:56 I don't know how to use the tools :p 08:13:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:14:08 &dump bcadren 08:14:09 No milestones for bcadren. 08:14:27 &dump lasty 08:14:28 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/Lasty.txt 08:14:35 seems like the bots are probably fine 08:15:23 -!- rockit has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0/20150220131007]] 08:16:07 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:16:44 From my PoV they were silent for 5 minutes; then came back. it was like a crash... 08:17:36 [09:03.53] Eptagon (L16 DDFi) killed Vashnia. (Snake:3) 08:17:36 [09:04.39] ??transmutation miscast 08:17:39 Bcadren: 08:17:40 09:10 ??transmutation miscast 08:17:40 09:10 what the? 08:17:40 09:10 hello? 08:17:40 09:10 scrublord (L11 MiBe) became the Champion of Trog. (Lair:2) 08:17:42 09:10 transmutation miscast ~ transmutations miscast[1/1]: By severity: 1: 1-11 damage or random uselessness. 2: 3-25 damage, 0-18 {contam}, {petrification}, or {confusion} (last two replaced with Weak in 0.16+). 3: Badform for random2(200) turns, 3-20 dmg AND 0-34 {contam}, 5-27 dmg AND delete mutation, 5-27 dmg 08:17:47 AND 1-2 bad mutations. 08:17:53 might be only your POV :) 08:17:56 so delay was my side? 08:18:00 i believe so 08:18:05 I sent at 9:03 and got nothing for 7 minutes. 08:18:26 sounds like your connection dropps for 7 minutes 08:18:38 yeah the internet is real 08:18:57 sorry then. 08:22:36 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:26:22 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:40 !tell nnmapp BUILD_SDL=y 08:31:41 wheals: OK, I'll let nnmapp know. 08:41:20 cxc is the only euro server with 0.16 installed? 08:41:36 -!- Icadius has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:45:17 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:33 eh? aren't cdo and clan both updated daily 08:50:48 trunk is updated, but i don't see 0.16 08:50:57 oh right, tourney 08:52:16 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:36 pretty sure that clan and cdo have them, anyway 08:56:08 !lg * v~~0.16 v!~~-a s=src 08:56:09 2697 games for * (v~~0.16 v!~~-a): 1204x cao, 1065x cszo, 246x cxc, 182x cbro 08:56:12 <|amethyst> they do not 08:56:15 oh 08:56:22 someone should update the planning page then :) 08:56:34 <|amethyst> ??plan 08:56:34 plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:release_plans 08:56:36 gammadunk'd again... 08:56:44 !seen TZer0 08:56:44 I last saw TZer0 at Tue Mar 10 19:42:44 2015 UTC (18h 14m ago) saying '!messages' on ##crawl-dev. 08:57:18 !tell TZer0 when will you have time to get 0.16 on CLAN? we plan to release today and start the tournament on friday 08:57:19 wheals: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 09:16:05 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:08 sanka (L21 FeWn) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1097: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Depths:1) 09:17:20 <|amethyst> !crashlog sanka 09:17:21 23. sanka, XL21 FeWn, T:74887 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/sanka/crash-sanka-20150311-141707.txt 09:17:43 <|amethyst> ugh, more cleaving/sw 09:17:45 <|amethyst> %git 09:17:45 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-66-g328ef0e: Don't generate OODs from Shadow Creatures. 10(8 hours ago, 4 files, 24+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=328ef0e6be54 09:17:49 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 09:18:26 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:24 !tell gammafunk You chomp Asterion!!!! You hungrily devour Asterion! You feel better. 09:19:24 wheals: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 09:19:31 !tell pleasingfungus You chomp Asterion!!!! You hungrily devour Asterion! You feel better. 09:19:31 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:21:24 elliptic: Looks like http://lazy-life.ddo.jp/mirror/meta/0.16/ is available now 09:21:25 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:23:40 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:27:51 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:40 03|amethyst02 07* 0.17-a0-67-g5b6732a: Don't crash when hydraform devours Asterion. 10(66 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b6732ac801a 09:29:41 03|amethyst02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16-b1-51-g847d45f: Don't crash when hydraform devours Asterion. 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=847d45f488f9 09:29:45 -!- agentgt has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:52 <|amethyst> would be nice to have something like is_valid that returned true for dead-but-not-yet-reset monsters 09:30:03 shouldn't imps not be allowed to worship fedhas 09:30:08 <|amethyst> agentgt: why? 09:30:19 <|amethyst> ??imp 09:30:20 imp[1/1]: Did you mean {crimson imp}, {white imp}, {shadow imp}, {iron imp} or {imp species}? 09:30:23 <|amethyst> ??imp species 09:30:24 imp species[1/2]: Player species Imp. Main feature is permanent teleportitis and a blink intrinsic, also little, demonic, assorted resistances/immunities, regen 1, shoutitis. Now playable as an experimental branch on CBRO! 09:30:35 <|amethyst> ??imp species[2] 09:30:35 imp species[2/2]: see tavern thread: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15362 09:30:38 for some reason I thought demons were considered unatural 09:30:47 <|amethyst> fedhas doesn't mind unnatural 09:30:59 <|amethyst> only corpse violation 09:31:04 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:31:26 <|amethyst> (and hurting plants etc) 09:31:52 but I swore demonspawn couldn't worship fedhas 09:31:57 <|amethyst> they can 09:32:04 <|amethyst> !hs * ds fedhas 09:32:05 746. Sphara the Slayer (L27 DsGl of Fedhas), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-11 14:23:31, with 15004848 points after 104455 turns and 19:14:00. 09:32:07 <|amethyst> !hs * ds fedhas current 09:32:09 101. Sphara the Slayer (L27 DsGl of Fedhas), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-11 14:23:31, with 15004848 points after 104455 turns and 19:14:00. 09:32:40 <|amethyst> undead cannot, though, I guess because they've been corpse-violated 09:32:41 maybe I was vampire... I could have sworn though it was ds 09:32:55 <|amethyst> yeah, vampire cannot worship Fedhas 09:33:03 <|amethyst> Ds cannot worship good gods 09:33:45 * wheals wonders why the ranged weapon recommendations have default recommended instead of default unrecommended... 09:34:18 <|amethyst> (also, fedhas doesn't mind necromancy as long as you're not using corpses or turning yourself undead) 09:34:41 <|amethyst> and Corpse Rot is an exception to "using corpses"---Fedhas doesn't mind because rotting is rotting :) 09:34:48 -!- fazisi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:00 <|amethyst> There's a quote on @crawlcode about that 09:35:03 ahh I know why I got confused 09:35:11 summon demons piss off fedhas 09:35:18 gammafunk: yep, looks good 09:35:18 oh 09:35:20 hellwing? 09:35:25 <|amethyst> hm 09:35:32 yeah and black imps 09:35:34 <|amethyst> @??hellwing 09:35:34 hellwing (154) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 34-57 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 17, 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, fly, regen | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 335 | Sp: cigotuvi's embrace [06!sil], teleport other [06!sil], teleport self [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 09:35:37 oh, imp 09:35:42 yeah 09:35:47 <|amethyst> oh, piss off as in turn hostile? 09:35:48 shadow imps 09:35:51 <|amethyst> yeah 09:36:09 if MM suppreses lindwurms for Dith, then Fedhas should ban shadows 09:36:20 <|amethyst> @??shadow 09:36:20 shadow (06W) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 16-32 | AC/EV: 7/10 | Dam: 1406(shadow stab) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(40), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 217 | Sp: invisibility [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: small | Int: animal. 09:36:21 which is a little silly anyway since they don't cast it as summons 09:36:25 shadow imps :) 09:36:41 <|amethyst> if we're going to do that 09:36:52 <|amethyst> please just make that the usual case 09:37:00 <|amethyst> suppression rather than hostility 09:37:23 it seems to have become that? 09:37:25 %git :/lind 09:37:25 07Lasty02 * 0.17-a0-38-gee58bc3: Prevent monstrous menagerie from giving lindwurms to Dith followers 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ee58bc3b6b54 09:37:31 I thought it would have been cool for imps to turn into different imps 09:37:33 <|amethyst> no, only two or three spells 09:37:38 but I suppose that is overlapped 09:37:44 i mean, why did Lasty_ change it then? 09:37:55 with dracs and demonspawn 09:37:56 i guess we could ask him, but that would be cheating 09:38:32 <|amethyst> yeah, I'm not convinced about that change 09:38:32 agentgt: more with ugly things, i'd think? 09:38:41 <|amethyst> but it shouldn't be specific to that one spell 09:38:55 a long time ago I had joked about an ugly things species 09:39:05 oh i see, you mean imp species :) 09:39:12 mutate ability 09:39:26 but imp is cooler 09:39:35 wheals: what's the question? 09:39:48 Also, why would Fedhas ban spawning shadows? They're incorporeal. 09:39:55 <|amethyst> Lasty_: shadow imps 09:40:02 the menagerie change is kind of inconsistent with other summoning spells 09:40:08 all except shadows, really? 09:40:13 |amethyst: Don't shadow imps no longer use raise dead under your command? 09:40:18 er, "shadow creatures" 09:40:27 + weave shadows etc. 09:40:28 <|amethyst> Lasty_: yeah, but they still have the spell so they turn hostile if you worship fedhas 09:40:32 too many meaning of shadows 09:40:38 wheals: it's consistent w/ Dragon's Call 09:40:44 <|amethyst> oh, dragon's call 09:40:56 but MM isn't level 9 :) 09:40:59 <|amethyst> Yeah, I'm not convinced about it on dragon's call either 09:41:02 (should it be :P) 09:41:03 |amethyst: lol, that's weird 09:41:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:41:58 Well, let's talk about the best way to handle it when a god hates a possible outcome of a summoning spell. Should the god hate the spell in general? Get angry without warning when you summon something bad? Let you summon hostile monsters? 09:42:27 <|amethyst> in general the answer has been "let you summon hostile monsters" unless the entire spell is offensive (like Imps under good gods) 09:42:40 they're still hostile there too 09:42:43 <|amethyst> but Shadow Creatures was an exception because of how it does random picking from the level 09:43:01 <|amethyst> then dragonform then MM got the exception too 09:43:16 Evokers like box of beasts, sack of spiders, rod of shadows, and rod of the swarm do the same thing 09:44:31 Lasty_: as a related note, summon butterflies on Ru chars who have sacrified love is actually really good 09:44:38 elliptic: yes 09:44:50 elliptic: I'm not sure whether that needs adjustment or not. 09:44:55 elliptic: any recommendations? 09:44:58 what do the butterflies do? 09:44:59 how about letting all monsters swap with friendly butterflies? 09:45:00 IMO it is sort of bad 09:45:09 just be hostile yet do nothing? 09:45:19 gammafunk: enemies can't swap through them and are slightly less likely to shoot through them 09:45:21 gammafunk: they are hostile to you, meaning that they do a really good job of blocking monsters 09:45:26 i feel like monsters could probably stand to swap a lot more in general 09:45:26 oh right 09:45:34 Lasty_: and monsters never melee them 09:45:43 elliptic: to be fair, butterflies already do a really good job of blocking monsters 09:45:44 <|amethyst> wheals: but swapping makes monster packs easier to run away from 09:45:51 <|amethyst> wheals: because they waste time swapping 09:46:07 and you don't have to kill your way through crowds of butterflies when they're not hostile 09:46:17 that problem is mostly just if they can both swap with each other 09:46:33 if only one can swap with the other, it doesn't happen 09:46:34 Lasty_: sure, but it's a little silly when there is a melee-only monster in a corridor and you do this 09:46:35 Perhaps we should just make it so enemy monsters melee butterflies regardless of hostility 09:46:43 elliptic: true 09:46:45 it isn't just a butterfly problem too 09:47:01 casting spammals and then making one spammal hostile was already a strategy 09:47:10 I thought randarts were changed so they couldn't roll rFoo+++ 09:47:24 kvaak: no, the opposite 09:47:39 they can't roll rFoo---? 09:47:55 <|amethyst> I was going to say, "they can only roll rFoo+++" ? 09:47:57 IMO wheals is on the right track and monsters should be able to push past monsters who are much weaker than they are 09:47:59 wheals: no, only rFoo-. 09:48:18 yes, i was joking :P 09:48:25 what did you mean by "the opposite"? 09:48:32 wheals: it's time for me to admit that I can't read 09:48:48 fwiw that's like a one line change. in mon-behv or mon-move there's a test for swapping that includes a species check and a 'rank' check 09:48:49 I meant, "it was changed so that they -could- roll rFoo+++" 09:48:55 aha 09:49:01 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:04 elliptic: I guess that the problem is hd is often a poorl indicator of relative strength of monsters 09:49:21 ebering: well, it requires some care to find a good indication of "much weaker" 09:49:23 <|amethyst> and relative strength isn't really what's important here anyway 09:49:28 gammafunk: but it's usually a good indicator of which monsters you want near you 09:49:33 |amethyst: it isn't? 09:49:39 <|amethyst> e.g. a smiter probably *wants* to be pushed past by smaller things 09:49:47 smiters already do have a special case 09:50:02 <|amethyst> would that special case still apply? 09:50:03 Lasty_: no I mean, we're deciding between which monster gets priority 09:50:04 (so orc priests don't push plain orcs) 09:50:13 <|amethyst> I don't recall whether it was smiters in general or orc priests 09:50:15 i'd imagine so 09:50:15 |amethyst: sure, but that sort of thing isn't necessary to handle the stuff with rat armour better 09:50:20 hd can be wrong about that pretty often 09:50:24 elliptic: rat armour?????? 09:50:29 wheals: rat armour 09:50:36 elliptic: give ratskin cloak +Rat 09:50:42 yes, summons hostile rats 09:50:43 summons a single _hostile_ rat 09:50:50 hehe 09:50:51 We could co-opt throwing code and let all monsters throw all lower-HD monsters :p 09:51:27 The stone giant throws a caustic shrike. The caustic shrike hits you!! The acid burns! 09:51:28 |amethyst: as in, we don't need to get smiter behavior right in all cases to improve things from how things currently work 09:51:36 <|amethyst> yeah 09:51:43 I suppose this discussion informs the shadow imp problem too -- no reason to let Fedhasites get free shadow imps to block bigger meanies. 09:52:07 <|amethyst> So what happens when you cast a summon spell with Sac Love? 09:52:13 <|amethyst> should it just do nothing? 09:52:26 <|amethyst> (I imagine shadow creatures and several other already do) 09:52:28 |amethyst: you get a hostile summon right now. I kind of like that, but it may cause more problems than it is worth 09:52:33 IMO summon spells should be uncastable 09:52:41 yeah I voted for that a while back too 09:52:43 monsters don't love you, so they don't come to your call when you summon 09:52:51 |amethyst: all the evokers except elemental evokers summon nothing; elemental evokers summon hostiles. 09:52:53 and then the game doesn't let you cast those spells because they would do nothing 09:53:09 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:25 I'd also be okay with allowing you to cast summons and have it give a "the foo snorts in disgust and returns to its home dimension" message instead of spawning whatever it is. 09:53:42 Lasty_: so let players waste a turn doing nothing but getting a silly message? no 09:53:46 but then you have to look up foo! 09:54:00 gammafunk: true. Too pointless to bother with. 09:54:37 I guess the most reasonable thing is to not allow any summons to generate anything hostile, including under sac love. 09:54:51 well 09:54:52 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 09:54:53 <|amethyst> ??summon greater demon 09:54:53 summon greater demon[1/1]: Summons a 1 or 2, the mightiest classes of demonry. Chance of summoning a hostile demon is 6/power. Even if originally friendly, a 1 summoned by this spell will turn hostile shortly before timing out. Level 7. 09:54:55 summon demon, sgd 09:54:55 and if a spell can only make hostile things, prevent the cast and give an appropriate message. 09:55:00 and makhleb summons 09:55:02 gammafunk: er, true 09:55:08 <|amethyst> Checking "can only make hostile things" is not trivial 09:55:20 yeah 09:55:21 |amethyst: it is if you've sac'd love 09:55:22 <|amethyst> trying a few hundred times is though 09:55:28 it is for love but not for other cases 09:55:31 <|amethyst> right, but sac love is not the only case here 09:55:33 dump core, check if you summoned something hostile, write to a file, restore 09:55:39 it would be nice to handle the other cases too though 09:55:39 I think sack of spiders and box of beasts try 50 times or so 09:56:00 some gods hate things from sack of spiders? 09:56:04 crawlers 09:56:11 oh weird, didn't know you could get those 09:56:15 <|amethyst> ghost moth maybe? 09:56:18 <|amethyst> @??ghost moth 09:56:19 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 56-86 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:47-84) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1690 | Sp: draining gaze [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 09:56:22 you can't get ghost moths 09:56:22 I don't think you can get crawlers 09:56:22 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:56:25 <|amethyst> if you're under zin 09:56:29 <|amethyst> ? 09:56:36 from sack of spiders, you don't get moths 09:56:38 hm 09:56:43 it's not shadow creatures on spider 09:56:43 <|amethyst> you don't? 09:56:43 I don't think any gods actually hate anything that comes from sack of spiders 09:56:47 it has its own list 09:56:49 <|amethyst> yeah 09:56:52 <|amethyst> !source pop_spiders 09:56:53 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/evoke.cc;hb=HEAD#l1058 09:56:56 { 25, 27, 5, UP, MONS_GHOST_MOTH }, 09:56:59 I had to add a infinite loop prevention to it when I added sac love 09:57:06 oh wow 09:57:07 what 09:57:09 on 09:57:10 earth 09:57:16 why are ghost moths in there! 09:57:24 gammafunk: sack of moths. 09:57:28 geeeeze 09:57:35 can't believe I never noticed that 09:57:36 That's why the sack eventually unravels: the moths eat it. 09:57:38 or is it new? 09:57:38 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess we've been moving in the direction of preventing angered summons for a while I guess 09:57:52 it's reasonable, just need to look at all spells as a whole 09:57:57 <|amethyst> you have to have evo 25 at least 09:58:12 <|amethyst> and even then it's a rather small chance 09:58:25 I vote for just removing ghost moths from the sack 09:58:38 voted off the sack 09:58:56 the sack is pretty silly OP as it is (maybe not universal view, but many think it's at least a bit too strong) 09:58:57 . . . and replacing them with Arachne. 09:59:05 Lasty_: who can throw the spiders 09:59:22 Sack is definitely nuts powerful, especially considering that it costs the least of the permanent evokers. 09:59:27 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:59:33 and you often get 2-3 in a 3-rune game 09:59:40 <|amethyst> are there any spell/god combinations where only the crappy creatures are hated? 09:59:57 <|amethyst> also, should suppressing mean "roll again" or "you get nothing"? 09:59:59 <|amethyst> in general 10:00:02 With decent Evo, you can surround yourself with a 2-tile deep swarm of spiders and crush orb guardians, draconians, and klowns in Zot. 10:00:14 <|amethyst> currently it's mostly "roll again" when it happens 10:00:34 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:01:16 I'm not aware of any case where suppressing a bad case would level up the average quality. 10:01:27 unless lindwurms are the "bad" result from menagerie. 10:01:57 if you're with dith over deep water, I guess 10:02:00 In that case I defaulted to manticores, tho, so it doesn't increase harpies, which are significantly better than lindwurms and manticores but come at the same frequency. 10:02:19 @??lindwurm 10:02:19 lindwurm (09k) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 39-62 | AC/EV: 8/6 | Dam: 20, 10, 10 | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 640 | Sp: fire breath (3d18) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Large | Int: reptile. 10:02:28 gammafunk: right now if you cast it and can't spawn a manticore, it'll spawn nothing, AFAIK. It doesn't rechoose. 10:02:31 hrm, does large mean they don't have water problems? 10:02:49 No, they can't swim 10:02:57 there's a Lair vault that relies on that 10:03:08 it would say res: drown if they could swim I think 10:03:11 (unless that's lava and I'm misremembering) 10:03:20 @??elephant 10:03:20 elephant (03Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 57-80 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 2007(trample), 5 | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 478 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 10:03:23 yeah 10:03:49 should make them giant 10:03:52 .elrank 10:03:53 1583 games for * (br=lair lvl>2 lvl<8 kmap!~entry kmap!~uniq kmap!~special_ kmap!~altar kmap!=): 98x gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake, 80x bobbens_ice_dragon_lair, 63x dpeg_oklob_gauntlet, 63x ice2_lemuel, 61x dragon1_lemuel, 50x forest_paths, 46x grunt_megastairs_3, 45x minmay_lindwurm_lava, 43x grunt_megastairs_2, 41x worms_lemuel, 40x minmay_lair_drake_nest, 37x minmay_lair_venomous_thicket, 37x k... 10:03:58 get me to 100 kills faster 10:04:44 lol it's a minmay vault 10:05:21 if it has water he'd like it removed 10:06:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:07:01 it has lava, which means he'd still like it removed 10:07:16 !learn edit gammafunk[1] s/Nerf[^,]+, // 10:07:16 gammafunk[1/13]: TODO: minmay_smoke_and_mirrors rakshasas, rescue the loneliest frog, grand avatar movement bug, monster ranged always going through allies, adjust stairs in profane halls and elficide, hobby: destroy all instances of pizza tornado in every universe in the multiverse 10:07:37 So speaking of changes to spells, for 0.17 I'd like to see Enslave as a player spell either removed or bumped to level 7+ 10:08:09 And speaking of hexes, what's the feeling about Gell's Gravitas? It seemed incredibly underwhelming when I used it recently. 10:08:53 <|amethyst> how recently 10:08:57 <|amethyst> %git 3d13fd6 10:08:57 07MarvinPA02 * 0.16-a0-4005-g3d13fd6: Improve Gell's Gravitas 10(4 weeks ago, 3 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d13fd628b1f 10:09:07 yesterday 10:09:39 I used it on an elf priest with 19 hexes, 10 translocations, 20-something int, and wild magic. It knocked another priest into it, doing very light damage to both. 10:10:14 I could have enslaved the priest easily instead, or confused it and let it bump into other monsters. 10:10:16 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:27 Or just walked up and killed it with a couple hits from an electric dagger. 10:10:41 I suppose we could just bump it down to be a level 2 spell or something 10:11:49 not to say that gell's is good (I haven't used it), but in general "I used the spell once on a monster I could very easily have dealt with in other ways and it wasn't impressive" is not very convincing evidence one way or another 10:12:43 elliptic: well, I used it twice on the monster 10:12:53 but point taken 10:14:20 how about: level 4, a ministun instead of confusion, smite targetted 10:14:39 elliptic: given how remarkably pointless it seems to be, I just can't imagine anyone using it extensively enough to generate a large dataset about its use. In crawl, we expect people to get some idea of how things work by using them, and part of that is expecting them to stop using things that feel ineffective. At the very least we need to make Gell's feel effective enough to inspire someone to try using it more than twice. 10:15:01 wheals: I do think smite-targeting would be an improvement, since it opens up the possibility of using it to draw things away from y ou 10:15:12 I'm sure someone has used it more than twice! maybe... :P 10:15:24 haha 10:15:25 maybe replace pproj or teleport other (for some reason, i thought we removed this) in wr book 10:15:31 if we want testing 10:15:46 anyway buffing it a lot in 0.17 and seeing how it is sounds good 10:16:19 IMO, if we want testing, make it level 2 and see if it's useful at effectively no price, and then talk about scaling it up when uses are found. 10:16:42 if we go with "remove/drastically lower damage and level" for singularity, it might end up too redundant 10:17:05 I liked the idea of removing damage from singularity and making it just a way to trap monsters in a zone. 10:17:43 Sar on which god's he'd hypothetically remove: Gods: Gozag, Ru (I like the concept of first one but the gameplay seems lacking, like the sacrifices of the second one but everything else seems weird). 10:17:56 time to use your mod powers... 10:18:07 Mod powers? Time to call my mob contacts. 10:18:32 I'm surprised to hear that "everything but sacrifices" is the problem Sar has with Ru 10:18:50 someone also made a fair point that singularity being a monster is probably a mistake 10:20:03 <|amethyst> not sure what else it would be 10:20:11 <|amethyst> a trap maybe but that means you can only put it on floor 10:20:13 a feature with a map marker? 10:20:17 hm 10:20:44 <|amethyst> I guess if it takes the whole square and is impassible that would work 10:20:44 those have code to bring the old feature back i think, but it would mean whatever used to be there would disappear 10:20:58 <|amethyst> yeah 10:21:00 well, not being impassable was kind of the point they were making 10:21:25 <|amethyst> also, how does singularity interact with sanctuary? 10:21:29 if something falls into, it ends up on a random seen level? :P 10:21:52 also, independent of this, singularity should attract items 10:21:54 <|amethyst> and gell's and force lance for that matter 10:21:57 Mass Apportation at last 10:24:19 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:02 -!- xordid has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:30:44 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:31:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:41:12 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:57 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 10:44:25 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:48:25 Lasty_: if you sacrifice exp before xl27 do you miss out on stat-ups? 10:51:07 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:48 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 10:59:55 i believe so 11:02:05 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:07:14 almost done with my refactoring branch 11:07:22 remaining todo entry: learn perl so i can fix apt-gen.pl 11:10:56 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:10 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:15 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:12:26 wheals: beware the sigil cost! 11:12:49 -!- thrig has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:47 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:47 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:47 -!- roxton has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:48 -!- pyre has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:14:17 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:14:47 -!- therealfakemoot has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:15:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:15:35 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:23:13 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:25:10 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:47 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:02 -!- mumra_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:02 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:20 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:38 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:35:44 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:35:45 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:36:08 -!- mumra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:09 -!- mumra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:18 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:48:09 -!- Rotatell has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:55:18 wheals: hi, i was told this little HUD colour option patch is your kinda thing, if you could take a look! https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9494 11:56:06 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:13 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:06 i'll take a look 11:59:49 -!- mumra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:01:18 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:02:07 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:42 -!- hanshenrik has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:15 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:24 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:09 kvaak: yes 12:10:19 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:11:51 ah, almost working 12:12:11 * wheals spent a long time not realising that you shouldn't have quotation marks surrounding the regex 12:12:11 * Sequell also spent a long time not realising that you shouldn't have quotation marks surrounding the regex 12:12:22 oh REALLY now 12:14:11 good Sequell 12:14:43 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-b1-51-g847d45f 12:17:26 whee, i did it 12:17:45 er. hm 12:17:47 Draconian Black 0 -1 0 0 +1 +1 +10% +0% -1 12:18:19 missing apts? 12:19:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.17-a0-67-g5b6732a (34) 12:19:59 aha, the for loop is by reference 12:23:12 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23:16 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:09 ack, i can't use /r 12:25:29 that's 6 versions ahead of what i have :| 12:25:37 @??hell_hog 12:25:37 hell hog (04h) | Spd: 14 | HD: 11 | HP: 46-76 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 20 | 05demonic | Res: 06magic(40), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 830 | Sp: sticky flame (3d5) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 12:27:21 mm, got it working 12:27:35 baby's first perl code 12:29:06 hrm 12:29:12 what are the other updated tiles 12:29:27 holy swine, hell hog, dragons, trj, ... 12:29:31 git log rltiles 12:30:05 ah yeah 12:30:38 rupert 12:31:15 you mean the giaggostuono 12:32:03 we don't indulge in sexism, so that rupert tile is never happening 12:32:20 "An extremely powerful prize will be awarded to the first person who emails me with an in-game, ***NON-WIZMODE*** screenshot of this corpse. Cheating will not be taken lightly!!!" 12:32:25 biggest lie of 0.16 imo 12:32:42 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:33:00 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 12:34:20 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:35 48 files changed, 1544 insertions(+), 2713 deletions(-) 12:35:02 how many bugs added/removed? ;p 12:35:21 fewer LOC, fewer places for bugs to hide in! 12:35:57 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:28 that's always the plan 12:36:29 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:47 but unintentionally changing behaviour can also be considered a bug, and that does not map to lines of code so easily 12:37:33 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:05 New branch created: species_data (33 commits) 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-68-gbaa8440: Move species abbreviations to data. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 177+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=baa84408dcf4 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-69-g1a90e23: Clear up player::*_name. 10(2 weeks ago, 10 files, 42+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a90e2318ced 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-70-g7e63f4b: Replace species_name's bool parameters with an enum. 10(2 weeks ago, 8 files, 34+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e63f4b6602b 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-71-g21960b7: Move species names into data. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 57+ 109-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=21960b71a92d 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-72-g344e89d: Move species xp/hp/mp to data (BREAKS GEN-APT.PL!). 10(2 weeks ago, 3 files, 49+ 127-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=344e89dc77da 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-73-g54dc7ba: Move player<->monster species link into data. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 41+ 90-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=54dc7bad98fb 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-74-gf294b30: Remove player genuses. 10(2 weeks ago, 29 files, 110+ 92-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f294b304eee9 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-75-ga482107: Move hair stats to data. 10(2 weeks ago, 7 files, 24+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a48210712644 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-76-g17709f8: Move species habitats to data. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 45+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=17709f87ddb5 12:38:07 03wheals02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-77-ge67f748: Move undeadness to data. 10(2 weeks ago, 2 files, 50+ 59-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e67f7486a904 12:38:07 ... and 23 more commits 12:38:07 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:37 my god 12:39:03 what on earth is this wheals tsunami?! 12:39:19 Sploosh! 12:40:15 hair stats...wow 12:41:48 hairless tengu 12:41:50 next i should reimplement imps 12:42:09 wheals: huh, you_have_hair over you.have_hair()? 12:42:10 -!- muravey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:42:21 but with parens on the former 12:42:36 i thought i got rid of you_have_hair 12:42:42 oh maybe you did 12:42:47 I was looking at one commit 12:43:01 %git f294b304eee9 12:43:01 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-74-gf294b30: Remove player genuses. 10(2 weeks ago, 29 files, 110+ 92-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f294b304eee9 12:43:02 yeah i added it a few commits before the hair stats one 12:43:12 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:43:30 i ended up commiting that one in the middle of the hair work 12:44:51 well I'm sure that code was a bit hair to work with, but it seems you got it untangled. Thanks for combing out all of the problems and triming that overgrown code 12:45:01 *a bit hairy 12:45:24 Lugafu is my shepherd, I shall not fear 12:45:42 lack, rather 12:46:09 that's weird because FeAr actually have a lot of hair 12:46:18 ??fur 12:46:19 fur[1/1]: +1/+2/+3 AC, 0/0/+1 rC. Beware of furry conventions, though. Fortunately, tail is not included. 12:46:20 er 12:46:22 ??fun 12:46:22 fun[1/3]: Your hands twist into claws. The +2 pair of gloves of Fun {+Blink +Inv Slay+1} falls away! 12:47:03 aw :( 12:47:07 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:47:53 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:17 @??quicksilver_dragon 12:48:17 quicksilver dragon (11D) | Spd: 15 | HD: 16 | HP: 70-101 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 25, 2009(claw) | see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(140), 12drown | XP: 2539 | Sp: b.quicksilver (3d20) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 12:48:20 suppose i should do jobs next 12:49:29 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:46 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:54:51 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:59 !send gammafunk lies 12:56:00 Sending lies to gammafunk. 12:56:23 just saw sandman get chei piety for killing an illusionary wretched star 12:56:28 (rakshasa illusion) 12:57:42 seems unsound 12:58:04 you're sure it wasn't the original thing it duplicated? 12:58:12 well 12:58:18 he killed the original one three turns later 12:58:55 unless - do illusions stick around after the original dies? I think they vanish if the original or the rakshasa dies... 12:59:13 yeah could be that the illusions remain as long as the R does 12:59:20 I can wiz mode it right quick 12:59:52 -!- puddlestomp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:00:09 ah, please do 13:01:02 wheals: 21960b71a doesn't correctly handle the adjective form of 'yak'......... VERY disappointing!!! 13:03:36 i also noticed you moved hair stats to data but not the equally-important smell stats! 13:03:40 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:04:17 he didn't want to introduce any 'code smells'.............. 13:04:23 I'm sorry, that was awful. 13:04:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:08:26 !tell wheals wrt 23dd3402 , instead of 3 bools for stat gain, maybe just have a vector - the same one you construct in species_stat_gain? seems simpler... (and allows weighted stat gains, if we want that later) 13:08:27 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 13:10:11 hm, chrome is claiming cdo's security certificate has expired 13:10:11 man, "// Thirsty vampires are (much) more stealthy". does a < 17% difference really count as "much" 13:10:44 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:00 !tell wheals It looks like 2a73f66e27a lets djinni berserk - do we care? 13:15:01 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 13:16:56 MarvinPA: it has 13:17:00 !apt fo 13:17:01 Fo: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: 1, Bows: -2, Xbows: 0, Throw: -2*, Armour: 1, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 3, Shields: 2!, UC: 0, Splcast: 0, Conj: -1, Hexes: 2, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: 3!, Inv: 2, Evo: 2, Exp: 1!, HP: 0, MP: 1 13:17:49 !tell wheals wrt 72d9621d, I always assumed the sbl recommendation for fo was because of their powerful +3 stealth apt...? probably fine to remove the recommendation anyway 13:17:49 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 13:20:33 PleasingFungus: tested in wiz mode, the illusion does remain after the original dies, and only the original gives piety 13:20:39 ahh 13:20:43 ok, mystery solved 13:20:50 ty! 13:20:53 np 13:21:04 P/NP 13:21:10 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21:56 I think I solved that one on a CS 101 quizz 13:22:03 got a B+ on it so 13:22:04 -!- COOLCORN has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:22:46 wow, you should ask for a regrade 13:24:11 hrm, is anyone getting cert warnings from tavern that they weren't before? 13:24:33 [11:10] MarvinPA hm, chrome is claiming cdo's security certificate has expired 13:24:42 ah ok 13:25:08 has anyone told the Great 'Kin? 13:25:57 -!- xen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:26:10 !tell napkin It looks like cdo's ssl cert has expired, we're getting warnings when browsing to Tavern 13:26:11 gammafunk: OK, I'll let napkin know. 13:26:25 tbf maybe cdo is trying to tell us something about browsing to tavern... 13:27:38 -!- Dunsworth has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 13:27:48 it's a warning for your own good. 13:27:56 oh yeah, I get it too now 13:32:58 it's just the https certificate that expired on the 11th of march 2015 also known as today 13:33:58 (of course that's not the actual name for it, but who cares since that's what it practically is) 13:34:05 ssl certificate 13:34:06 the actual name for it is wednesday 13:34:18 not Wednesday? 13:34:32 -!- muravey_ has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 13:34:32 absolutely not. 13:34:46 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 13:35:02 -!- muravey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:02 <|amethyst> !tell wheals What about making those three stat-gain fields into a set ? 13:36:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know. 13:36:42 <|amethyst> I don't think "far less efficient" matters much when this happens once per XL 13:37:16 I guess X.509 certificate is the official name, and tls is what people actually use these days 13:40:49 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:50 |amethyst: I suggested a vector, since that would allow us to weight stat gains if we wanted (2:1 str/dex or w/e) 13:41:04 <|amethyst> ah, hm 13:41:23 either way, I'm pretty sure that storing the vector/set rather than recalculating it every level is "more efficient" 13:41:38 in terms of time, if not memory (not that either particularly matters on this scale) 13:42:13 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:06 ...admittedly, that'd be a pretty crude method of weighting, and we don't use it at present... so maybe a set would be better. 13:43:11 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, I see, it's making a vector anyway 13:43:19 yeah, exactly 13:43:48 <|amethyst> yeah, a vector instead of a set would make more sense then 13:43:48 <|amethyst> nothing to copy 13:44:33 <|amethyst> OTOH, I guess random_iterator should work with sets 13:44:44 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:44:50 <|amethyst> but is much less efficient there than with vectors 13:44:58 oh? 13:45:17 <|amethyst> because advance(it, pos) is just a pointer addition with a vector 13:45:33 <|amethyst> whereas for a set it requires walking the binary search tree 13:46:42 ahh 13:47:01 <|amethyst> copying a set to a vector requires the same thing 13:47:30 <|amethyst> hm 13:48:20 I think basically the question is: do we want someone to be able to say { STAT_STR, STAT_STR } 13:48:29 <|amethyst> I think probably not 13:48:30 er, { STAT_STR, STAT_STR, STAT_DEX } 13:48:37 which could be intentional or a copy-paste error 13:48:41 yeah I agree 13:48:49 <|amethyst> because when we get to that point, as you said, we'd want more fine-grained control than that 13:49:03 <|amethyst> and we already have ways to represent and choose from weighted sets 13:54:27 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:56 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:12 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:23 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:33 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:36 -!- wheals has quit [Changing host] 14:03:36 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:36 -!- wheals has quit [Changing host] 14:03:36 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:31 * wheals writes "Premature optimisation is the root of all evil" 99 times on a chalkboard 14:05:23 |amethyst: PleasingFungus: yeah, just making it a set/vector like you suggested is probably the most reasonable thing 14:05:35 it happens to every compiler, I swear 14:06:10 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:12 PleasingFungus: also, i'm fairly sure that that only makes the "go berserk" ability not hidden for djinn, but doesn't actually let them go berserk 14:06:21 yeah I was going to correct it to that but then I didn't care 14:06:23 anyway 14:06:32 probably cosmetic enough that it's w/e 14:06:44 In general I quite like the branch, even though it causes sorrow for my own branches... the curse of the feature freeze 14:06:48 also also, maybe you.can_smell should just be you.undead_state() == US_DEAD 14:06:56 depends whether we want liches to smell 14:07:07 I really strongly suspect that undead state should not be a thing 14:07:12 "Nerf Necromutation (MarvinPA)." 14:07:15 heh 14:07:38 undead state is almost exactly an obfuscation layer added over species to no purpose 14:07:57 the only use it has is allowing some things to be shared between mummies and liches 14:07:57 <|amethyst> "make lich work like mummy" is the purpose I thought 14:08:00 <|amethyst> yeah 14:08:03 so 14:08:06 why are ghouls and vampires in there 14:08:18 vampires aren't undead! 14:08:19 i once thought it also made living vampires like humans 14:08:21 they're semiundead! 14:08:23 but it doesn't actually 14:08:29 all of the virtue of undead_state could be replaced by an "is_mummylike()" function 14:08:30 which is like undead except not 14:08:36 is_mummylike(bool temp) 14:08:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: well, it also serves as a bool-like thing for "is undead" 14:08:41 !send PleasingFungus GENPC_OGREISH 14:08:41 Sending GENPC_OGREISH to PleasingFungus. 14:08:48 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: since US_ALIVE is 0 14:09:01 |amethyst: is_undead(bool temp) 14:09:20 let me find some of the things that most annoy me about undead_state, for comparison 14:09:23 <|amethyst> yeah 14:10:01 does is_undead return an undead_retval 14:10:05 :p 14:10:26 -!- mauris_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:29 wheals: it's a bool!!!! 14:10:34 <|amethyst> bool is_undead(bool temp, bool mummily) 14:10:35 ok, here we go 14:10:42 |amethyst: no! two functions!!! 14:10:56 !source ng-wanderer.cc:451 14:10:57 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ng-wanderer.cc;hb=HEAD#l451 14:11:05 look at this code 14:11:07 look at it 14:11:07 !send PleasingFungus FileNotFound 14:11:08 Sending FileNotFound to PleasingFungus. 14:11:35 !source ng-wanderer.cc:413 14:11:36 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ng-wanderer.cc;hb=HEAD#l413 14:11:38 look at this!!! 14:11:40 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:12:03 oh gosh ints 14:12:33 oh, i misread 14:12:33 %git a4821071 14:12:33 07wheals02 * 0.17-a0-75-ga482107: Move hair stats to data. 10(2 weeks ago, 7 files, 24+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a48210712644 14:12:34 yeah that can also be fixed separately - I think it's from when the L-man was just starting? 14:13:00 you.can_quaff 14:13:04 but how will undead species accidentally get turned living and become able to worship tso without undead state 14:13:11 MarvinPA: I already removed that 14:13:13 sorry 14:13:13 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: that's already gone 14:13:21 yes i know :P 14:13:22 <|amethyst> it's not actually state anymore 14:13:26 :P 14:13:32 I'm just salty about the completely pointless obfuscation - the only thing that US_HUNGRY_DEAD gives is the opportunity to 14:13:33 hm 14:13:37 wait a sec 14:13:47 <|amethyst> have two ghoul-like races or two vampire-like races 14:13:52 <|amethyst> which doesn't seem likely 14:14:03 ok, yeah, the only point of it is to make people get confused between that one and SEMI_UNDEAD 14:14:05 well vampires *are* a huge design success 14:14:06 <|amethyst> and 14:14:06 hm 14:14:13 did wheals end up renaming those at some point? 14:14:15 obviously US_SEMI_UNDEAD is for adding vampirism as post-race choice 14:14:19 I could swear they used to be the other way around... 14:14:21 <|amethyst> there are plenty of places that would be broken at that point anyway 14:14:29 wheals: and lycanthropy!!! 14:14:36 PleasingFungus: you wrote a comment that reversed them at some point 14:14:42 i, uh, think 14:14:50 I know there was confusion about them in the past 14:14:50 <|amethyst> because we're not all that consistent about whether we check for SP_VAMPIRE or US_SEMI_UNDEAD 14:15:07 solution: rename US_SEMI_UNDEAD US_THIRSTY_UNDEAD 14:16:50 <|amethyst> http://shewolfreads.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/dos_equis-man_VAMP-300x300.jpg 14:16:55 solution: rename "US_SEMI_UNDEAD" to 4"- US_SEMI_UNDEAD" 14:17:07 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:17:19 ++ 14:17:38 also, no comments on my beautiful regex? 14:17:40 :P 14:17:51 remind me 14:18:20 $sp.*\n.*\n *(-?\d), (-?\d), (-?\d), 14:18:29 it's probably too readable 14:18:57 oh, perl 14:18:59 I don't do perl. 14:19:13 neither did i 14:19:23 well 14:19:27 maybe i still don't 14:21:42 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:05 03ebering02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.17-a0-68-g6943d70: Check launcher inscription before firing using the launcher (#9512) 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6943d70b85b6 14:22:06 03ebering02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16-b1-52-gab5bc48: Check launcher inscription before firing using the launcher (#9512) 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab5bc48f15fb 14:25:15 <|amethyst> wheals: oh, since you slurp $inf in one go, you can close it before the loop now 14:25:43 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:18 slurp $inf, geeze the Perl language 14:26:29 wheals: don't get corrupted by it 14:26:38 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:26:48 Perl is the Lucy of programming languages 14:27:35 Perl whispers, "Become the Giaggostuono!" 14:27:55 wheals: dragon form and hydra form surely shouldn't have eyebrows 14:28:18 Is anybody else experincing the Tavern having an expired security certificate? 14:28:25 I did 14:28:44 reaverb: yeah, it's expired, we notified nap.kin 14:28:46 <|amethyst> yes, several people 14:28:59 cool, probably should have read the logs first >_> 14:29:46 minmay: your eyebrows are melded 14:30:14 +3 eyebrows of command {Mesm} 14:30:14 however, the NAGA / melded thing probably can check you.has_legs 14:30:21 if that's a thing that's not imaginary 14:30:22 ok, new certificate in place, gammafunk, Bloax - please confirm 14:30:23 Napkin: You have 31 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:30:28 nice 14:30:56 ah, but that returns false for hooves/talons 3 14:31:01 Napkin: works for me, thanks! 14:31:02 Napkin: worx 14:31:08 until 2017!! 14:31:13 also, octopodes can currently do tapdances and i don't want to change that 14:31:17 ...searching "dragon eyebrows" produces some very strange results 14:31:19 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:31:27 great, thanks guys :) 14:31:30 Napkin: also, for the release debs, do you set up the apt repository yourself if I give you those, or do you need someone to set that up? 14:31:37 all I wanted was a picture of a dragon with big bushy eyebrows... 14:31:43 mmm, korean boy bands 14:32:07 i haven't done that yet, gammafunk 14:32:19 ok, well I'll ask you again when we actually have them I guess 14:32:30 could you take over that job if i give you console login to crawl? 14:32:36 sure 14:32:52 of course I need to figure out how to do it, but I'm sure it's not hard 14:32:57 pass me your public ssh key to napkin@develz.org? 14:33:11 there is a debian directory in crawl's home 14:33:12 ok, will do 14:33:22 probably not too difficult 14:33:41 but i'm just running out of time so easily these days 14:33:51 no prob 14:34:01 i think kilobyte maintained the repo in the past 14:34:18 <|amethyst> yeah, kb was the debian expert on the devteam 14:34:28 be sure to check the scripts in ~/bin/ - could be a script for that 14:34:49 rip kilobyte 14:34:49 -!- orneryos_ has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:34:51 and almost everything is git'ed 14:35:31 <|amethyst> Napkin: oh 14:35:44 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:36:10 <|amethyst> Napkin: I also noticed some of the update scripts appear to have gone missing with one of the server moves? 14:36:40 oh? 14:36:44 <|amethyst> Napkin: there isn't an update-mingw-all-0.14.sh (or 0.15, or the other update scripts except for update-cdo), but I thought those used to exist 14:36:52 <|amethyst> oh 14:36:55 nah 14:36:59 <|amethyst> looks like just the set of mingw scripts 14:37:06 probably just not 'migrated' 14:37:11 <|amethyst> ah 14:37:23 to newer version of crawl, i mean 14:37:38 but they are dead simple - if you would like to make them quickly? 14:38:05 <|amethyst> that might be helpful when we need to do the official 0.16 builds 14:38:25 <|amethyst> I didn't check the relevant repo---I know there's stuff that gets layered on top of trunk? 14:38:30 ah, right, the 0.14 release i didn't do 14:38:39 <|amethyst> wasn't sure what was needed there 14:39:26 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:39:39 probably just some time to adjust update.sh and update.conf 14:39:51 and then try out the binary 14:40:08 after creating a new branch, of course 14:40:19 and cherry-picking the 1-2 commits 14:42:14 gammafunk? just login via ssh as always (crawl@crawl.develz.org) 14:42:23 ok 14:42:29 to actually play you use "crawl" 14:43:01 sorry, what do you mean by to actually play? 14:43:13 <|amethyst> Napkin: dgamelaunch.sh you mean? 14:43:14 "normally" dgl starts immediately 14:43:20 ah 14:43:21 got it 14:43:30 <|amethyst> hm 14:43:36 <|amethyst> oh 14:43:46 <|amethyst> I guess the agent goes before the -I option does 14:44:04 <|amethyst> probably there's some way to tell ssh which key to use 14:44:11 there is 14:44:21 see ~/.ssh/authorized_keys 14:44:32 <|amethyst> I mean on the client side 14:44:48 ah 14:45:02 i thought it's the other way around 14:46:02 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:24 <|amethyst> I think the client makes the offer 14:46:49 <|amethyst> yeah, " When the user logs in, the ssh program tells the server 14:46:49 <|amethyst> which key pair it would like to use for authentication. The client 14:46:49 <|amethyst> proves that it has access to the private key and the server checks that 14:46:50 <|amethyst> the corresponding public key is authorized to accept the account." 14:47:32 <|amethyst> Napkin: what I mean is 14:47:54 <|amethyst> Napkin: If I do ssh -i ~/.ssh/cao_key crawl@crawl.develz.org it still offers the key in my ssh agent first 14:48:00 <|amethyst> I guess I can do 14:48:04 i understand 14:48:05 <|amethyst> SSH_AUTH_SOCK= ssh -i ~/.ssh/cao_key crawl@crawl.develz.org 14:48:07 i thought it's the other way around 14:48:18 -!- TMTurtle has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:48:18 sure, that'll work 14:50:46 <|amethyst> yay, works 14:50:57 <|amethyst> now I can have two different keybindings for those 14:51:18 lol 14:51:52 <|amethyst> put "play on a crawl server" on Super+(ctrl/alt/shift)+C and "shell on a crawl server" to Super+(ctrl/alt/shift)+D 14:52:01 you could also use .ssh/config 14:52:05 very powerful 14:52:10 ;> 14:52:13 <|amethyst> ah, and specify the host differently 14:53:05 <|amethyst> the problem with keybindings is that I have too many of them and any new one requires shuffling :/ 14:53:18 what window manager do you use? 14:53:22 <|amethyst> sawfish 14:54:01 looks nice 14:55:22 i used Ion for a while - and had the same problem with free hotkeys ;) 14:55:24 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:30 <|amethyst> probably all my customisations I could redo with xbindkey and devilspie, and use something a bit more modern, but bleh 14:56:01 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:56:12 <|amethyst> anyway, seminar soon must be going 14:56:17 <|amethyst> thanks for the server stuff! 14:56:40 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:57:04 enjoy :) 14:58:05 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:59:07 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:04:19 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:08:43 -!- twelwe has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:21 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:22 -!- Sgeo__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:28:13 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:55 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 15:33:37 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:07 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 15:52:37 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:07 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 15:55:57 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:05:44 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 16:08:10 -!- puddlestomp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:11:22 -!- pythonsnake1 is now known as pythonsnake 16:13:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:16:50 -!- coffee` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:40 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:19:47 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:31 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:45 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:30 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:24:34 -!- n1k has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:29:46 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:59 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:13 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:41:46 |amethyst: I just checked the sawfish homepage, last release in 2013 :) 16:42:01 any word on updates tiles osx builds for trunk? 16:42:43 lagged: we're working on it, but both compilation and signing it are an issue 16:42:50 you can still compile it yourself, of course 16:43:41 compiling is an issue in that we'd like to make a build that's broadly compatible, but it's a little hard to get a 10.8 install going since no one uses that natively 16:49:22 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:22 -!- n1k has quit [Changing host] 16:49:22 -!- n1k has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:45 ah i see, i'd always noticed they lagged behind a bit, i guess the changes between osx releases makes things tougher 16:57:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:48 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 16:58:10 I don't know if this is working as intended or not, but I have less stealth when flying than when standing 16:58:13 while wearing boots of stealth 16:58:54 -!- hanshenrik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:39 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 17:06:32 yeah, boots of stealth don't work when flying 17:06:46 which is fairly silly IMO, but it is intended behavior 17:07:57 what about boots of running? 17:08:07 I have to wonder how boots of stealth work if you walk more quietly than if you aren't walking at all 17:09:10 why would being flying mean you're not walking? 17:09:31 ??flight[2 17:09:31 flight[2/2]: kryft: think of flight like... kryft: a treadmill and the treadmill is hovering and it goes forwards when you walk on it also the treadmill lets you pick up things from the floor 17:09:51 well, you'd think you can't walk more quietly than walking on air 17:10:03 you forget that silence is the inverse complement of noise... 17:10:34 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:08 yeah, the monsters get spooked if they don't hear an adventurer walking around 17:11:35 "It's quiet... too quiet." 17:11:51 i agree that it's pretty silly no matter what 17:11:55 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:12:06 just make sure to keep the special case for blade paws 17:15:25 does flight still give a stealth boost? 17:15:35 (or did it ever, I seem to recall it did) 17:15:45 ??flight 17:15:45 flight[1/2]: Level 3 Charms/Air. Grants flight for its duration. Airstrike deals 50% bonus damage against flying targets. 17:16:36 I thought it gave a bonus to carrying capacity 17:16:57 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:35 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:35 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 17:18:16 i thought it gave a bonus to ev 17:18:27 !messages 17:18:28 (1/1) wheals said (8h 21m 9s ago): when will you have time to get 0.16 on CLAN? we plan to release today and start the tournament on friday 17:18:41 for tengu only, and it still does 17:18:47 !tell wheals I'll fix it up after work tomorrow. 17:18:48 TZer0: OK, I'll let wheals know. 17:19:00 !tell TZer0 ok 17:19:01 wheals: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 17:19:07 !messages 17:19:07 (1/1) wheals said (7s ago): ok 17:19:08 lol. 17:19:58 hm, is there any way to get drac apts with !apt? 17:20:00 [18:11:32] yeah, the monsters get spooked if they don't hear an adventurer walking around 17:20:02 even if they can't see you 17:20:27 the idea is that they can't hear *anything* - normal ambient noise suddenly vanishes when you get nearby 17:20:34 I suppose 17:20:36 meta 17:20:44 this is also why silence's stealth penalty is greater in noisy branches, and lesser in quiet branches 17:20:45 it's 17:20:47 extremely silly 17:20:50 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:58 <_miek> chequers: Is CPO going to have 0.16 installed for the tournament? 17:21:15 yes 17:21:45 i'm trying to fix up my system for arbitrary branches before 0.16 is tagged, so i don't have to build it by hand 17:21:54 Kramin: read this 17:22:10 cool, thanks 17:23:13 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:31 !apt drac 17:23:32 Could not understand "drac" 17:23:34 !apt dr 17:23:34 Dr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: , Dodge: -1, Stealth: 0, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: 0 17:23:36 !apt dr[red] 17:23:37 : Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: , Dodge: -1, Stealth: 0, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 2!, Ice: -2, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: 0 17:23:44 ah ha 17:23:46 thank you 17:23:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:31 PleasingFungus, there seems to be some bug where "!apt dr" doesn't always work, sometimes giving blank entries 17:24:39 in various weird ways 17:24:48 !apt dr 17:24:49 Dr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: , Dodge: -1, Stealth: 0, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: 0 17:24:50 !apt dr 17:24:51 Dr: Fighting: , Short: , Long: , Axes: , Maces: , Polearms: , Staves: , Slings: , Bows: , Xbows: , Throw: , Armour: , Dodge: , Stealth: , Shields: , UC: , Splcast: , Conj: , Hexes: , Charms: , Summ: , Nec: , Tloc: , Tmut: , Fire: , Ice: , Air: , Earth: , Poison: , Inv: , Evo: , Exp: , HP: , MP: 17:24:53 ^ 17:24:58 spooky 17:24:59 it's weird 17:25:15 yeah I ran into that 17:25:35 !cmd !apt 17:25:35 Built-in: !apt => https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/commands/apt.pl 17:25:51 oh no, perl again 17:27:24 !apt test 17:27:25 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:25 Could not understand "test" 17:28:25 !apt dr[blue] 17:28:26 Could not understand "dr[blue]" 17:30:25 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:35:08 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:35:10 -!- Isaiah_ is now known as Guest6077 17:35:36 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:35:56 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:31 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:10 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:14 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:45:17 -!- Guest6077 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:47:33 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:17 $word =~ /-?(.*?)=(.*)/; 17:48:23 oh right 17:48:44 forgot that in perl ? does conservative matching 17:48:58 or *? and +? does anyhow 17:54:16 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:58:49 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:59:06 major bug is major 18:01:08 Flight spell does not give an expiration message if boots of flying are active. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9533 by Kvaak 18:04:52 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:09:32 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:18 er 18:11:48 hrm, well I guess technically it should print a message 18:12:28 probably when you activate the boots, the flight status from the spell should be removed 18:12:46 e.g. you can only have one class of flight active at a time 18:13:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:14:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:54 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 18:23:12 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:01 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:30 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:36 reasonable 18:27:19 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 18:31:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:10 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:40 The function f(x) = 800 * log2(1 + x / 800) will be applied to the total number of points each player or clan attains in this section 18:33:58 ways to make scoring as complicated as possible 18:34:16 were you worried some players were getting the hang of how it works? 18:34:49 actually, that decision was made specifically to spite you, personally. 18:34:59 possibly you missed the "all of kramin's points are halved" section? 18:35:09 I'll reread 18:35:16 that seems fair 18:35:19 -!- Fusha has quit [] 18:35:27 considering the massive advantage I have 18:37:36 PleasingFungus: I don't think we had all agreed that Kramin would get points. 18:37:36 Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:38:11 -!- Silas is now known as fazisi 18:38:23 :) 18:39:12 -!- ark__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:40:19 %git :/[Rr]ename [Ll]ucy 18:40:19 Could not find commit :/[Rr]ename [Ll]ucy (git returned 128) 18:40:37 Did that happen before Recorded History? 18:41:05 I don't think Lucy was ever formally called that 18:41:14 I'll have to try for nature's ally 3 this time 18:41:28 someone like Grunt would be able to say what Lucy's name history really is 18:44:57 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:47:06 if its like the rest of the most of history its probably really really really REALLY boring and dumb and most likely false 18:48:16 -!- ly__ is now known as ly^ 18:48:23 Kramin: when your tournament is run by a mathematician, that's what you get 18:48:46 just be glad there aren't any power series in those formulae 18:48:49 Kramin is just confused that it's log2 instead of natural log 18:48:52 johnstein: 7027d6e 18:48:59 %git 7027d6e 18:48:59 07greensnark02 * 0.2-a0-512-g7027d6e: s/Lucy/Lugonu/. 10(8 years ago, 11 files, 64+ 57-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7027d6e07332 18:49:08 %git :/I'm home 18:49:08 07bh02 * 0.14-b1-29-g3e6010a: Lucy! I'm home! 10(12 months ago, 10 files, 18+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3e6010aad566 18:49:18 oh hey, it allows space! 18:49:21 thanks wheals 18:49:23 ^^that's when it was changed back 18:49:32 %git :/I'm_home 18:49:32 Could not find commit :/I'm_home (git returned 128) 18:49:35 yeah 18:49:41 I just assumed it wouldn't work 18:51:12 gammafunk: I'm looking at building a more generic database layer for webtiles-changes, so we can use the same logic for more than just userdb stuff 18:51:18 how do you feel about no-ORM vs ORM? 18:51:39 and, if no-ORM, how do you feel about database-specific module vs database-agnostic 18:51:44 twelwe: this is a Brutal Slander on history, which is my wife. 18:51:54 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:25 chequers: well what other stuff does webtiles need a db for? Or I guess what's the end-result of such a change 18:52:38 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 18:52:45 well im sorry but every time a history teacher told me something i would say `says who?` and he`d or she`d point to a fuckign book! like not even a real person, a book. and says, this says it. i`m supposed to believe a book knows better than me. 18:52:46 I'm familiar with our use of sqlite for user data 18:52:57 well 18:52:58 it probably does 18:53:00 ! 18:53:02 sorry about the language just really get mada bout history is all 18:53:02 BOOM 18:53:11 it's ok. 18:53:26 gammafunk: I'd like to start allowing webtiles to manage crawl builds, via janitor commands 18:53:28 books are for chumps 18:53:29 nicolae-: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 18:53:33 i've never read a book 18:53:40 i've never ever read a single word 18:53:43 messages, huh 18:53:44 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:45 !messages 18:53:46 (1/2) gammafunk said (1d 6h 8m 42s ago): You thought you could slip if s == "N" and crawl.one_chance_in( 30 ) then return "Nicolae" by me?!?! 18:53:56 !lg nicolae- ee|fe|ie|wz|en 18:53:57 fe is ambiguous: may be species or class. Use fe-- (Felid) or --fe (Fire Elementalist) to disambiguate 18:54:00 heh 18:54:03 !messages 18:54:03 (1/1) gammafunk said (1d 58m 55s ago): I put your vaults in a branch and noted some issues in the bug report, thanks! 18:54:14 chequers: hrm, that sounds like you'd be bringing in OS-management into the server...wouldn't this need to be aware of dgl things as well? 18:54:16 oh, I didn't check 18:54:22 gammafunk: this means I need somewhere for runtime data storage. I could write it to a basic file instead of bothering with a database, but I figure db is more reliable 18:54:23 gammafunk: did you include the "Nicolae" in the branch version 18:54:31 PleasingFungus: oh most certainly 18:54:33 DID NOT 18:54:35 well my whole problem and then i`ll shut up cause its dev chat is that they sell it fiction or nonfiction and even the bible is in the nonfiction. now i`m athiest. make your own conclusions there. 18:54:36 NO 18:54:39 yeah.. the long term goal is to move dgl-config-style management into webtiles-server 18:54:41 nicolae-: DENIED 18:54:42 my franchising opportunities 18:54:59 tbf i kind of expected it would get cut by some reprobate but nothing ventured nothing gained 18:55:14 you gotta try 18:55:39 -!- TastyLemonDrops has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 18:56:01 chequers: I suppose that's not unreasonable, I would like working in python over shell scripting 18:56:09 gammafunk: weirdo 18:56:10 i think that ......not! is going to make a huge comeback in 2015 18:56:24 wheals: geeze, how many lines of Perl and you've already become corrupted 18:56:40 python is literally the devil. 18:56:59 like that blue and black dress you`re wearing really looks white and gold.....not! Lol 18:57:19 wheals: some identify Satan with the biblical serpent....... 18:57:21 gammafunk: you're right though, it's definitely greatly expanding the scope of webtiles-server 18:57:40 <_miek> twelwe: are you kazakhstanian? 18:57:43 chequers: but yeah I have just very limited SQL/DB experience, and just can understand the logic/queries when I need to; shell scripting I understand reasonably well, and the shell is of course very flexible for stuff like this 18:57:59 I was (and I guess most of the webtiles-changes authors) always thinking of webtiles server as a relatively dumb component where something else would be the knowledge hub 18:58:04 even with my plan for dgl scripts, an sqlite table would be needed to manage installed versions 18:58:21 but now I'm coming around to the idea of webtiles server being relatively monolithic 18:58:54 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:55 FWIW, for dgl-config it already uses sqlite with an 'installed versions' table 18:59:01 chequers: a good person to talk to here is |amethyst if you can get him to spend some timme thinking about admin. he'd rather be fixing crawl bugs, but he has a lot of experience and is good to bring ideas down to earth 18:59:23 fair enough 18:59:23 chequers: well that table is something different from what I mean, but yeah a similar kidn of table is used 18:59:31 * chequers waits for UTC daylight 18:59:55 |amethyst corrected me about that table when I was asking about this... 19:01:42 chequers: yeah I have a feeling that janitor commands might evolve into a set of specific commands implemented more or less in server 19:01:48 as opposed to a generic thing to run shell scripts 19:01:55 although the latter might still be used for some things 19:02:14 agree 19:02:47 I was thinking it would be nice to have the webtiles-server know what the branches it serves are built from, and to have the ability to update them itself 19:03:59 yeah that's the basic functionality we'd just like: Lasty implements a god of abstract algebraic music, puts it in a branch, and there's webtiles support for checking it out, building, making it playable 19:04:17 i`m gonna keep my americal idol chat in the other channel but if you guys want to join its live now. just you know. open invitation. 19:04:44 or just doing rebuilds in general automatically like you said would be good 19:05:02 the rebuild cgi we have certainly works but it's pretty odd having a cgi implemented in sh :p 19:05:31 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:06:00 gammafunk: We weren't supposed to reveal that until after the tourney! 19:06:06 oops! 19:06:22 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:07:04 I'd play that god 19:07:34 also yeah, I feel extremely negative towards cgi 19:07:37 old tech. old tech bad! 19:08:08 Good, because that god's sine transformation power is going to blow you away. 19:09:01 |amethyst runs a lisp-based X11 window manager, so be careful what you say about old tech! 19:09:18 gammafunk i replied on the bug report 19:09:26 Lasty: i'll make a note of it 19:09:47 -!- CanOfWorms has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:55 nicolae-: oh, counting | 19:09:59 yeah actually, that could work 19:10:08 i guess something else to consider is that webtiles servers may not have their own auth db soon 19:10:08 lua can ...hrm but can it give you a count 19:10:14 (if centralised auth becomes real) 19:10:15 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:10:32 chequers: yeah, tbh if you can work on that item in particular, it'd be pretty great :) 19:10:37 yes, i'm looking at lua string functions now 19:11:13 but of course one works on what they want to work on 19:11:37 nicolae-: who said you could put drads in vaults? who? 19:11:38 it's all a spaghetti mess of linked work really 19:11:49 probably thetower 19:12:04 hm, there's a quick way to do it at the bottom of this http://www.lua.org/pil/20.1.html 19:12:25 gammafunk: i'll check the logs 19:12:45 nicolae-: yeah that will work, the second return val from gsub 19:13:09 _, count = string.gsub(str, "|", "|") 19:13:12 yerp 19:13:23 well, i wouldn't call it count, that's an existing variable 19:13:37 oh but you might need to escape | since it's a regexp char 19:13:47 well, that'll happen 19:14:07 maybe something like... max( 7, numberofpipes) 19:14:30 or maybe i should put in a min of 4, just to be safe 19:14:41 yeah def. a min as well as a max 19:15:51 i'll try to fix that... soonish 19:16:04 you can play with the actual max, like anything from ceil(numberofpipes / 2) to ceil(numberofpips * 2.0 / 3) to just what you said would work 19:16:10 gonna need to get igor out of retirement and wait for a lightning storm 19:16:14 see how many repetitions you get 19:16:56 sounds like a nicalae wizlab is likely 19:17:01 *nicolae 19:17:40 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:40 -!- lnr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:44 -!- Doom65 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:49 the culprit has been found another question: is it okay to put a dryad in a swamp vault or should they just stay in summon forest nicolae-: I think that's probably fine? 19:18:28 also i might throw some loot into phyte_club 19:19:40 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19:45 you know, looking over these vaults again... i really like abyss_rune_containment_breach. i wonder how many people will manage it. 19:20:30 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:24:11 my first thought was to insert a condition for s == "G" and return "gammafunk" | this was the very suggestion i had planned to make in case someone complained about the vanity shop name (or as i prefer, opportunities to franchise with a known and trusted brand) 19:25:07 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:25:48 in my defense, the N shops have the crappiest selection 19:30:53 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:30:53 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 19:33:09 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:28 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:35:35 -!- ly^ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:09 is there any issue with having multiple games for one name on a single webtiles server? 19:40:34 i don't think crawl can handle that 19:41:00 but i may be wrong 19:41:38 hm 19:43:16 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:43:30 chequers: what do you mean by that exactly? that's fine for different versions 19:43:37 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:43:45 because those are different crawl installations 19:43:57 i was thinking about guest accounts 19:44:22 instead of giving everyone who visits a server their own account, why not just let everyone play as Crawler until they sign in 19:45:19 chequers: this would probably require some changes to crawl proper, since it's built around the idea of one active save per account name 19:45:41 unless you did some fancy kind of isolation 19:45:56 what if there was some way to fake multiple saves with multiple hidden accounts 19:46:11 or you could make a name like guest3141 19:46:19 and make it unique 19:46:32 and then just disallow registration of said accounts 19:48:07 perhaps you can disable saving in crawl 19:48:15 -name Crawler -no-save 19:48:24 (also don't write milestones, etc) 19:49:12 -!- coffee` has quit [Quit: coffee`] 19:49:17 well milestones could still be made, but yeah that's a complication; these games would then be totally untracked 19:49:35 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:49:41 I'm not really sure it's worth all the infrastructure changes when we don't put any requirements on email 19:50:13 personally, I think it is. Signing up is Hard 19:50:20 people who want to try out the game fast can also just downoad it 19:50:51 you suddenly add all this cognitive overhead "oh, do I want to give this site my email address? will they spam me? hmm, do I want to use my insecure generic password or create a new password for these guys. ..." 19:51:06 downloading is waay slower than clicking 'play' on the front page of the website :P 19:51:16 well I mean, crawl is not exactly a game for people who don't have the attention span to fill out three items in a form 19:51:30 I honestly think that's an elitist attitude 19:51:38 eh 19:51:39 I 19:51:41 er 19:51:47 those thoughts ran through my head before signing up 19:51:57 those thoughts run through *everyone's* head to some extent 19:52:01 <_miek> what would be really nice is having to fill the forms on "save" 19:52:08 <_miek> but I can imagine that would be a coding nightmare 19:52:09 I'm not really being elitist, but crawl does require a lot of its players 19:52:23 i don't think it's elitist to assume that people who want to play a roguelike are expecting some degree of mental effort in doing so 19:52:41 I have no problem with crawl's complexity, but "the game is complex" is not a justification for "the signup process should be complicated" 19:52:51 well, is it complicated? 19:52:56 I'd argue it's pretty simple... 19:53:17 what happened to the idea of guest games 19:53:26 it's complicated in terms of the benefit vs cost 19:53:26 I mean I'm not vehemently opposed or anything, but this idea might create a lot of problems for the infrastructure we have 19:53:40 like before we had stats on every game played online, now we wouldn't 19:54:11 currently you see a link to crawl on /r/games comment, click through to the homepage and to play either download a 20mb file or give your email address to a mysterious organisation that, hang on, is this a f2p scam game? 19:54:27 yes, yes it is 19:54:31 in my bright future, you see a link to crawl on /r/games, click through to the homepage, click play, and bam, d:1 19:54:39 -!- mauris_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54:44 people must not use steam then, I guess 19:54:46 do people not make dump e-mail addresses 19:54:58 CanOfWorms: people do. 1% of people 19:55:01 -!- Charmandara has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:19 i'm fairly sure that crawl already has a --no-save command line switch 19:55:51 guest game with no saving sounds like a smart idea since new players won't need the save feature :v 19:56:23 "unlock save files and data tracking with Crawl Premium! just give us your email" 19:56:24 guest games will use the --no-pokemon switch 19:56:50 guest games can't use enslavement? bullshit 19:57:30 guest games will only have half the species 19:57:42 also a good idea 19:57:46 just throw some easy ones out 19:57:47 <_miek> guest games can only go to d:5 19:58:18 maybe lair 19:58:20 guest games start with the one-handed mutation 19:58:23 just make sure they leave ghosts 19:58:32 email for the other hand 19:58:53 CanOfWorms: it's not that people don't have trash emails, but even seconds long delays matter when you're trying to court a new player 19:59:10 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:34 i think webtiles startup time currently dwarfs registration time :P 19:59:37 guest games sound p good tbh 19:59:44 oh, the game should auto-quit after like 19:59:46 30 minutes 20:00:17 of inactivity 20:00:17 especially if it's a case like chequers described: someone coming from a reddit link on a whim 20:00:22 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:23 not 30 minutes of gameplay 20:00:37 just to avoid server clog obviously 20:00:44 There are two teams called "Team Liquid" in the running. Not sure if that's a problem. 20:00:47 well again, I think you can only take this "you have three seconds to not lose the player!" mentality so far, and yes what wheals said as well. If we could maintain the game stats (morgues, milestones) for these games, I'd certainly feel better about the idea 20:01:04 I agree 20:01:11 can you make it hosted on a common guest account? 20:01:32 I mean someone tell minmay that we need to remove worms to not lose the three-second player attention span 20:01:34 there's no -no-save 20:01:35 he'll be thrilled 20:01:44 noooo 20:01:47 but I guess we can create -no-save that still writes milestones 20:01:47 haha 20:01:53 and on ^S just ^Q instead 20:01:57 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:02 yeah something like that might not be too bad; I'd woonder about the directory situation 20:02:12 what about it? 20:02:17 like, is it better to have a single username or many? 20:02:17 dpeg: you posted in the "the culling question" thread without answering the question! 20:02:19 just delete the actual save, not the morgue when they player leaves 20:02:39 there definitely is a crawl_state.no_save 20:02:42 yeah lots of morgues in a dir, which I don't think is too bad a problem, but it'd be kind of nice to have one username 20:02:42 at least 20:02:51 as opposed to a ton of random ones 20:02:58 make a special build for it 20:03:01 yeah, one username is prettier i think 20:03:03 0.16_guest 20:03:05 <_miek> can multiple people play on a single username at once though? 20:03:07 or maybe that's just for weird game modes, like executing scripts or something? 20:03:16 chump_who_can't_bother_registering 20:03:58 ah, Options.no_save 20:04:08 "Ok, hrm. my username...ok it's g-a-m-m-a....FORGET THIS SLOW GAME IT'S LIKE INVENTED BEFORE PONG!" *quits* 20:04:43 wheals: true! On purpose, even. 20:04:55 _miek: that's what we're discussing 20:04:58 dpeg: I was really hoping you'd post your list of removals in that "culling" thread 20:05:06 almost posted and asked for it 20:05:19 chequers: there is a command-line option, just not documented 20:05:31 gammafunk: no way! Too much tension... if I really want something changed, I take it to c-r-d. 20:05:32 grep around in initfile.cc for "no-save" 20:05:44 dpeg: no, I know! it's a *fake* list 20:05:53 you're not commited to anything 20:06:08 dpeg: the tourney scripts don't care if two clans have the same name, since captains are used to identify the clans internally 20:06:13 chequers: currently it forces the game into wizmode, but that could be changed 20:06:15 elliptic: good! 20:06:24 <_miek> chequers: well I just mean that currently if you try to login to a cahracter that's already playing you just kick his game instead 20:06:59 dpeg: usually when this happens people actually want to be on the same team and just miscommunicated about who the captain is, and then they figure it out 20:07:05 oh, is the list of registered clans visible? 20:07:07 yes, I can imagine 20:07:14 _miek: ah, i was trying to test that, thanks 20:07:15 http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.16/teams.html 20:07:30 faketourney still active, though I'll probably turn it off tonight 20:07:31 dpeg: just saw your response to me in the culling thread. I was just being silly. I don't really think everyone has to love my projects. :D 20:07:45 heh 20:07:55 yeah I was very confused until you said faketourney 20:07:58 Lasty: was not just about you & Ru, also about reaching the unwashed masses. 20:08:05 <_miek> lol "kiku's delivery service" 20:08:06 some of those names are good 20:08:18 * dpeg can only play for the last few days. :( 20:08:41 hey! i wash 20:08:49 _miek: these people should be able to spell that god's name in full 20:09:01 <_miek> that ruins the reference though 20:09:03 gammafunk: so is release happening tonight or are there still binary issues to figure out? 20:09:06 release? 20:09:15 it's too soon... i wasn't ready... but can we ever be ready 20:09:26 elliptic: it can, I have a bug fix I'm about to push, but yeah there are still missing os x binaries 20:09:37 _miek: oh... so I am not aware of the reference. 20:09:40 we've released before with missing binaries ofc 20:09:41 and I need to make the debs, and not sure when nap.kin will have time to make the binaries available 20:09:46 and just added them later 20:09:52 yeah we can tag it for sure if we want 20:09:55 <_miek> dpeg: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097814/ 20:10:09 <3 20:10:12 elliptic: is there anything else besides tagging that you care about release-wise? 20:10:23 tagging tonight might be nice if people like chequers are just waiting on that to put it on servers 20:10:24 I think some servers still don't have 0.16, but that's not a release prob 20:10:37 <_miek> or was that sarcasm? 20:10:47 -!- Calisca2 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:10:47 ok, well I'm going to push this patch in a few minutes and then we can tag this evening 20:11:39 "Ru mad bro" is that the best DrKe could come up with?! 20:12:40 <_miek> I like "Notallmennas" 20:13:10 i like an Iron Statue of a Statue of Chest mimic mimic but i might be biased 20:13:27 <_miek> and "all about abyss - no temple" 20:13:35 where're johnny0's puns??? 20:14:08 magicpoints and logicninja on the same team, the mind reels... 20:14:34 tileschatters are all the same to me 20:14:59 simmarine: let me guess, that's a real thing in poschengband 20:15:27 btw, is magicpoints mps on the tavern? 20:15:29 Lasty: congrats on your clear victory of dev who's inspired the most pun clan names 20:15:37 haha,no 20:15:40 gammafunk: I'll take it 20:15:43 mps is mps on tiles 20:15:45 gammafunk: whew 20:15:56 !gamesby mps 20:15:57 mps has played 148 games, between 2015-01-01 15:55:15 and 2015-02-22 12:48:13, won 2 (1.4%), high score 10169150, total score 16676719, total turns 1373829, play-time/day 2:43:51, total time 6d+0:44:49. 20:16:06 he's pretty agreable to chat with though! 20:16:07 seems about right 20:16:18 but yeah strong opinions for so few games played... 20:16:27 gammafunk: just not to post with apparently 20:16:36 hey, better winrate than me 20:17:01 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Client Quit] 20:17:03 !learn e ebering s/9512, // 20:17:04 ebering[1/1]: bugfixes (patches on corresponding bugs): 8934 20:17:14 ebering: oh I'm going to push your shop fix as well 20:17:29 hooray! 20:17:30 had to clean up a couple things 20:17:42 oh, did you fix the ctrl-f shop bug? 20:17:43 shop fix? 20:17:45 ebering: if you could use like 72 char wordwrap in commit messages, that'd be nice 20:17:49 * wheals flaked on that 20:18:32 gammafunk: for the whole message? I recall PF telling me 72 for the title and 80 for the body and I thought I stuck to that 20:18:43 * dpeg hands ebering a medal, an iron cross and a mistletoe 20:19:02 ah, ok. Well for viewing the message in the shell, it's kind of nice to have less, but perhaps 80 for the body is just fine 20:19:10 you're right, the commit title is the really important one 20:19:24 ebering: as for a more extensive fix, i was planning on making the shop menu a Menu at some point 20:19:52 which should hopefully fix all the current bugs, and bring in a whole new host of other ones 20:23:50 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:23 well I've been curious about how Menus work because I'd like to write some sort of Beogh improvements (a fourth ^ screen with named followers you can select to gift to or something) for 0.17 so that might be a good place to start 20:25:52 thanks dpeg! 20:26:01 03ebering02 {gammafunk} 07* 0.17-a0-69-g555aecb: Simplify shop/shopping list interaction with duplicate stock (#8934) 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 12+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=555aecbca65a 20:26:02 03ebering02 {gammafunk} 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16-b1-53-g52541ea: Simplify shop/shopping list interaction with duplicate stock (#8934) 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 12+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=52541ead7d94 20:26:13 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:26:53 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:58 !learn e ebering s/8934/none pending/ 20:26:58 ebering[1/1]: bugfixes (patches on corresponding bugs): none pending 20:27:55 ebering: when doing that, would be very helpful if xv-ing followers shows what gift they have (if any). 20:28:51 gammafunk: you fool, you didn't resolve the issue!! 20:28:55 I know 20:28:57 nor the previous 20:28:58 going to now 20:29:35 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:09 ebering: to be honest, i don't actually know how they work :P 20:30:16 so much to learn, so little time... 20:30:22 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:37 %git :/blowgun 20:30:37 07MarvinPA02 * 0.16-a0-4095-g194d721: Revert "The triumphant return of the blowgun of the Assassin" 10(2 weeks ago, 3 files, 2+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=194d72164126 20:30:42 heh 20:30:46 %git :/inscrib 20:30:47 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-2425-gf364627: Remove the 'autoinscribe_cursed' option. 10(4 months ago, 4 files, 1+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3646271067c 20:31:04 %git ab5bc48f15fb463fd0478eedbaf632ee134472bd 20:31:04 07ebering02 {gammafunk} * 0.16-b1-52-gab5bc48: Check launcher inscription before firing using the launcher (#9512) 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab5bc48f15fb 20:31:49 i resolved that one, i think 20:32:14 and, er, said that |amethyst pushed it 20:32:14 wheals: hey!, I'm not neil!!! 20:32:17 oops 20:32:24 spoiler: we are all neil 20:32:43 gammafunk: neil before your god 20:33:34 rip blowgun 20:34:48 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:04 nicolae-: for the phyte club vault, ignoring the dryad issue, it's kind of a major bruhaha, and the player might like a little loot after that? 20:35:09 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:22 sorry that's apparently *brouhaha 20:35:27 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35:29 gammafunk: yes, i mentioned that earlier, right after you left and i failed to notice that you ahd 20:35:46 oh, sorry 20:35:49 it's okay 20:35:54 i mean, you weren't here 20:36:12 yeah the spores worry me a bit, I tested trying to make them blow up safely behind other things and it seems they sometimes did 20:36:17 but I'm not sure what all triggers that 20:36:32 what about them worries you? 20:36:47 oh only them just being easy to blow up for lots of damages to a big mob of monsters 20:37:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:37:16 true, true, i had forgotten that 20:37:18 since it's pretty well packed with them, I mean that's also something for the player just to do, which is kind of fun 20:37:46 i put them in in the hopes that they'd explode a bit and leave some ballisto colonies for the player, since i'm not aware of any easy way vaultwise to link ballistos into colonies 20:38:05 yeah you do close them in with fungi, so perhaps it's just fine 20:38:23 for the dryad, I'd say you have to past the MarvinPA test 20:38:36 damn i forgot to study for that 20:39:06 forget the GRE subject test, this is the test of your life 20:39:12 i checked the logs, 'twas PleasingFungus who said "I think that's probably fine?" 20:39:19 well it's not like the GRE subject test got me into grad school, so 20:39:22 uh, hello? obvious bias 20:39:29 i just noticed, yeah 20:39:35 ProbablyFineFungus 20:39:59 -!- SegFaultAX has quit [Excess Flood] 20:40:01 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:40:52 I'm compiling with tiles for the sole purpose of making a tavern shitpost 20:42:40 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 20:43:57 "If Makhleb were cut, that would free up space for Ru, right?" 20:44:22 makhleb the awakened 20:44:28 combine them 20:44:36 combine all the gods 20:44:56 abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwyxz1, god of stuff 20:45:10 that's just xom 20:45:12 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:45:31 heh 20:45:32 ontoclasm: HIPU are free 20:45:44 make a build where all altars appear as xom altars and you don't find out which god you get until you pray 20:45:51 abc includes all possible gods, past and future 20:46:07 surely 234567890 are free too 20:46:10 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 20:46:17 we also have other alphabets 20:46:22 and punctuation 20:46:34 a god whose name is just a space 20:46:34 but 27 is a good goal 20:46:36 *, god of stuff 20:46:36 gammafunk: I was under the impression that gods were ethereal beings on an infinite plane and their physical size was no more a limitation than the petty laws and whims which govern players' mortal lives 20:46:51 but maybe makhleb is just *that big* 20:46:54 well, turns out you're wrong 20:46:56 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: there's a patch for that 20:46:57 the gods are about the size of a horse 20:47:00 <|amethyst> CanOfWorms: not all altars 20:47:06 demonz are huuuuuge 20:47:09 #notallaltars 20:47:18 <|amethyst> !bug 9454 20:47:18 is that the blank altar patch? 20:47:19 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9454 20:47:24 <|amethyst> ecumenical altars, yeah 20:47:31 i thought you meant a patch for * 20:47:39 and i thought, "that was a really bad patch" 20:48:53 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 20:49:31 seriously though 23 gods is an awful lot 20:49:58 worked okay for the romans 20:51:21 the romans are all dead 20:51:39 what if we called them saints instead of gods 20:51:41 so that it's like catholics 20:52:00 everybody dies eventually, minmay 20:52:09 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:37 <_miek> not gods hopefully 20:52:58 even gods have to die 20:53:21 which happens if you play for two billion turns or so 20:53:24 rip jiyva 20:53:24 rip 20:54:34 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:24 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:31 <_miek> if you kill all the demons then makhleb should die 20:55:42 too bad the halls of pandemonium are infinite 20:55:58 <_miek> kill six billion demons 20:56:02 <_miek> ??extinction 20:56:02 I don't have a page labeled extinction in my learndb. 20:56:05 _miek: The Portable Atheist is a book that starts with a list of dead, real-life gods. 20:56:23 "real-life" seems like the wrong adjective, there 20:56:43 nicolae-: as in: gods which were worshiped by humans, many humans 20:57:04 oh, i knew what was meant, but still 20:57:35 <_miek> dpeg: how do you know they're dead? 20:58:01 maybe they just... slumber 20:58:26 -!- fungee has quit [] 20:58:33 _miek: as in: no current worship. (And no, a handful of crazy wiccans or satanists or whatever won't make Odin & Thor come back to life, at least not in my world :) 20:58:51 for the record: I had a couple of very bad nights leading to my being rather behind on stuff; crawl has been waiting while I catch up on work stuff. hope to poke at signed mac builds tomorrow, gammafunk. may need someone else to test the tiles build that isn't working as an app bundle here :( 20:59:19 geekosaur: are you recovered? 20:59:29 mostly 21:00:06 <_miek> well I don't think its actually a real-world philosophy of any religions that their gods die when they're no longer worshipped 21:00:24 _miek: no, of course not. I am a dyed-in-the-wool atheist. 21:00:25 but had to go grocery shopping today (was supposed to be sunday but had gotten about 1 hour of sleep) and that on top of still not completely recovered means nothing happened tonight (and not a lot of time to do anything in anyway, since I have to walk to the store and back) 21:00:55 <|amethyst> Athe died because no one worshipped him 21:01:03 <|amethyst> that's why atheists don't believe in gods anymore 21:01:14 * dpeg sends geekosaur right back to bed :) 21:01:15 * Sequell also sends geekosaur right back to bed :) 21:01:17 everything is set up except (a) creating the signing certs, which is just press a button in xcode, and (b) grabbing the 0.16 tagged source instead of trunk (0.16 wasn't tagged at the time) 21:01:33 I am headed to bed in fact, just wanted to get an update in here since gammafunk asked after me the other day 21:01:40 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:41 <|amethyst> geekosaur: thanks! 21:01:48 |amethyst: I sweat that Athe did not die for my sins! 21:01:54 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:02:03 nicolae-: for the record, I still think that's probably fine! 21:02:08 I'm just not a vaultsman <_< 21:02:08 no. he died for mine. 21:02:44 s/tagged/branched/ # this isn't svn any more :p 21:03:04 fr unrand Godslayer when you attack a priest with it their god dies, forever 21:03:17 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:23 19:54:31 in my bright future, you see a link to crawl on /r/games, click through to the homepage, click play, and bam, d:1 <- d:1 as a mibe...? 21:03:31 nicolae-: some gods don't have priests, that's not fair! 21:04:03 evoke it to blow up altars 21:04:06 huh, reading through that discussion 21:04:09 if you win with it while worshipping a god, that god dies? 21:04:12 geekosaur: great, we're going to tag 0.16 this evening, so maybe you can try making the app tomorrow (or whenever) 21:04:12 why on earth were people talking about only having one account 21:04:16 I honestly thought we'd settled that 21:04:27 geekosaur: obviously gods wouldn't let you wield it 21:04:32 ah, I thought it was already tagged, thought I'd seen patches being cherrypicked into it 21:04:43 -!- puddlestomp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:04:47 the beta is tagged and there's a branch 21:04:52 but 0.16.0 isn't tagged 21:04:53 ok 21:05:02 I'll worry about it when I'm awake... 21:05:14 * gammafunk casts a spell. geekosaur looks sleepy... 21:05:24 ebering: gammafunk: fwiw, I personally use 80-char linewrap on commit bodies (I think) 21:05:30 * geekosaur doesn't need a spell, the past several days have been quite enough... 21:05:36 (basically I just match the width of the automatic git comments) 21:05:38 (you know) 21:05:43 yeah, it's only an issue when looking at the git log through a page in the shell 21:05:46 since that shows the message body 21:06:15 only if you're not a true 80x24 believer 21:06:31 <_miek> 176x43 ftw :P 21:06:32 well I like side-by-side things! 21:06:38 <_miek> kill six billion demons <- yessss 21:06:43 and git log adds indent 21:06:54 gammafunk: get rekd imo 21:07:11 right, os x user. sigh, I'd have to explain to you what a shell is 21:07:18 <_miek> if anyone kills six billion demons then makhleb should die 21:07:18 maybe we'll cover that tomorrow if I have time 21:07:25 <_miek> an easter egg that noone can achieve 21:07:29 I seem to be running 289 x 91 right now 21:07:43 gammafunk: o git log adds indent 21:07:48 sounds like an unfeature of git log imo 21:07:59 PleasingFungus: it's nice if you have shell + window open on same screen, I mean 21:08:13 oh 21:08:16 one last thing 21:08:19 then 90 + other thing becomes harder to get, depending on how insane your resolution is 21:08:30 did anyone else see the activity on 7805 today 21:08:37 !bug 7805 21:08:37 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7805 21:08:47 ug 21:08:48 plz 21:09:00 Could this be added to trunk or one of the experimental branches, so online-only 21:09:02 players can try it? 21:09:08 who 80-character wraps *mantis* comments..... 21:09:09 really!!! 21:09:21 some people 80-char wrap their email and it's so bizarre to me 21:09:24 I played that map, it's an abomination 21:09:34 I hope you approve of my resolution 21:10:01 oh I assumed you wanted to follow that suggestion 21:10:46 Status: resolved. Resolution: won't do. Comment: Forgot this was still open. 21:11:17 lol what bug was that 21:11:26 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:29 nicolae-: scroll up about 10 lines 21:11:37 it was a sprint map that whales made 21:11:59 the one with the kraken in a shrinking prison 21:12:01 and ledas snails 21:12:10 tbf we'd use torpor snails now but still 21:15:01 i'm a busy man 21:15:03 no time to scroll 21:15:18 hm 21:15:19 nicolae-'s terminal is 80x9 21:15:21 I should make a branch 21:15:40 what kind of branch 21:15:53 would you believe me if I said 'dwarven halls' 21:16:01 -!- SpaceCob has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:16:05 nope 21:16:23 dwarven mountain 21:16:36 correct 21:16:46 dwarven... airships 21:16:46 nrook wanted a branch or portal vault involving getting pushed off mountains 21:17:04 but then he died 21:17:11 did he fall off a mountian 21:17:26 it was extremely ironic 21:17:36 PleasingFungus can resurrect him with a dwarven branch 21:18:46 imo rework elf instead 21:18:54 that's a big project I'd like to start some time 21:19:04 do you have a plan? 21:19:22 dpeg: well basic idea is don't make all inhabitants extra squishy things with big spells 21:19:45 so maybe remove some of the higher-tier elves and lower tier ones 21:20:11 and give them golems? :) 21:20:13 make all elves higher tier 21:20:45 <|amethyst> could give them some non-summoned demons 21:21:10 now we will never know that PleasingFungus wanted to do to/with the dwarves 21:21:12 more uses for low-tier demons...!? 21:21:13 Conversations with elliptic kind of started this idea, it's just not terribly fun that elf has two things with any defense and the rest are all squishy casters without resistances (other than mr) 21:21:21 dpeg: I didn't actually, I have plans for another species 21:21:29 ah, what is the current species count? 21:21:30 vp? is it vp?! 21:21:32 gammafunk: please try to have a mechanical theme for the branch 21:21:37 dpeg: no another monster species 21:21:49 PleasingFungus: well I think the ...wait what do you mean by "mechanical" 21:21:50 our tavern fans will be delighted! 21:21:53 dpeg: 26 21:21:58 cool 21:22:03 gammafunk: as in game mechanic, i guess 21:22:11 yes 21:22:17 like, how swamp is "water, lizards, death" 21:22:18 the theme would proably remain elven/magic, it's more the defensive profiles that would change 21:22:41 gammafunk: couldn't these elves magically armour up, like players do? 21:22:42 orc has the mechanical theme of "swarms of chaff & pals" (priests that smite through the packs, sorcerers & high priests that re-use them as zombies, knights & warlords that buff the chaff) 21:22:48 I think deep elf knight/fighter are pretty pointless at the moment 21:22:53 shoals plays around with water and ranged enemies 21:22:59 yeah those are ot very good 21:23:06 re what minmay said 21:23:43 PleasingFungus: well I think some big conjurations and banishment will show up, but yeah I do have to get something more specific anyhow 21:23:55 they're just "orc wizard that takes longer to kill" 21:24:06 but condensation shield! 21:24:09 I think crawl in general is not that great at having mechanical themes for its branches, but that doesn't mean we can't try 21:24:25 PleasingFungus: what about Abyss and Slime? 21:24:28 hm. lotta negatives in that sentence 21:24:42 oh, chei is out of date, right 21:24:52 @??deep_elf_knight 21:24:53 deep elf knight (10e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 41-58 | AC/EV: 0/15 | Dam: 21 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | XP: 775 | Sp: dazzling spray (3d12), conjure flame (42d1), invisibility, swiftness / stone arrow (3d18), mystic blast (3d16), haste, s.golubria / throw icicle (3d20), haste, invisibility, condensation shield | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 21:24:54 that isn't 21:25:09 I see deep elf knight is now "blinky ogre mage that cant actually do anything bad" instead of "big orc wizard" 21:25:26 blinky ogre mage with ev that is 21:25:34 <_miek> ogre magi can banish 21:25:39 dpeg: abyss has a very distinct feel to its geometry, but there's nothing especially cohesive about its enemies mechanically; they're just all thematically weird (and also nonliving mostly) 21:25:45 right thats why I specify that it cant actually do anything bad 21:25:51 no paralyse, no banish, not even LCS! 21:26:17 PleasingFungus: yes, when I suggested acidic walls back in the day, I was thinking that more branches could use little rule changes like this. But not so easy to come up with ideas. 21:26:18 dpeg: slime... um... maybe I'm not thinking hard enough but I can't think of any real mechanical theme to slime 21:26:24 in terms of its enemies 21:26:43 it seems like you could do something interesting playing with the walls (enemies that interact with them in interesting ways) 21:26:45 but nothing does 21:26:51 true! 21:26:53 none of them really interact with each-other interestingly, either 21:26:59 they're just All The Slime Enemies 21:27:02 the mechanical theme to slime is "generic melee stuff plus acid blob and eyes with 1 hp" 21:27:03 good point about Orc, btw 21:27:43 rare slime creature that extends the range of wall acidity unless you kill it first, word of recall style 21:28:08 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:15 dpeg: I was cherry-picking there; the ogres and giants don't really fit in at all mechanically, only thematically. likewise orc wizards 21:28:18 seems like if the walls are going to burn then the theme should be "fight in the open" 21:28:21 well orc's theme of popcorn enemies doesn't make it very endearing to me when you do it post-lair 21:28:22 or something 21:28:29 it's a branch of "god when is orc:4 already" 21:28:36 perhaps more slimes should be able to combine :) (But that's definitely hellish to code, so don't) 21:28:42 gammafunk: the theme isn't really the problem there 21:28:42 thankfully there are only 3 levels above orc:4 21:28:58 ontoclasm: it is, and that clashes with slime creature gimmick 21:29:00 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:11 it would be tedious no matter what the theme was, as long as it's balanced such that you *can* enter before lair, but *rarely should* 21:29:16 gammafunk: except when there's 7 levels above orc:4 21:29:37 or was that fixed in recent versions to make it less likely to run into situations like that? 21:29:39 need crawl on rails 21:29:42 <_miek> warlords, high priests and occasionally knights are pretty tough though, or people wouldn't wait until after lair 21:29:49 well, i mean... the current ~strategy~ for slime is mostly diving 21:30:00 PleasingFungus: you're using this word theme in ways that just don't seem well-defined to me 21:30:10 gammafunk: what's confusing about it? 21:30:23 it's not well-defined? I don't know what you mean by it 21:30:46 a central mechanical focus, that most of the branch interacts with. 21:30:54 gammafunk: I think PleasingFungus means monster interaction, not flavour. 21:31:19 gammafunk: dragons would work a lot better in elf than in zot IMO 21:31:29 minmay: oh yeah 21:31:48 I gave a bunch of examples for orc. shoals has, for example, flying enemies, aquatic enemies, ranged enemies, mermaids, sirens - a bunch of different ways for monsters to interact with water. 21:31:49 PleasingFungus: it is a good concept, but since no Crawl branch has been designed like this, it's probably best to do this slowly 21:31:54 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:32:28 Flying enemies and ranged enemies don't really interact with water 21:33:06 I believe ranged enemies can shoot across water 21:33:38 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:33:45 agreed on flying enemies, after further thought; ranged enemies do have a decent interaction with water if the player doesn't have flight 21:33:48 big if 21:33:48 n1k: ranged enemies can also shoot across floor, and the player is very unlikely to interact with water in shoals unless they are a merfolk 21:33:48 the thing about shoals is that the water doesn't do much if the player has flight 21:33:58 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:07 <|amethyst> Isn't "squish creatures with big spells" a mechanical theme? 21:34:10 and if the player doesn't have flight it is pretty annoying even now 21:34:13 yeah, that's flight. you do what you can 21:34:18 |amethyst: yes. elf currently does have a mechanical theme 21:34:21 <|amethyst> or I guess it's that you're worried gammafunk wants to eliminate that 21:34:23 <|amethyst> yeah 21:34:24 yes 21:34:33 gammafunk didn't say anything about eliminating that though 21:34:40 this is one reason I would like to remove flight and shallow water--eventually. I think that might make ranged monsters in watery places pretty cool 21:34:41 so I'm not sure why you are worried 21:34:49 elliptic: right, just diversifying it 21:35:11 the flip side of "diversifying" a branch is "making it more homogenous with the rest of the game" 21:35:16 I'm also not convinced elf has that theme 21:35:21 ??deep elven blademaster 21:35:22 I don't have a page labeled deep_elven_blademaster in my learndb. 21:35:22 if every branch has every type of enemy, they all play the same... 21:35:27 ??deep elf blademaster 21:35:27 deep elf blademaster[1/3]: A deep elf with 27 Short Blades, and the ability to outrun non-hasted players. Has been known to dualwield quickblades. Like all elves, doesn't like curare. Unlike most elves, it has the EV to make curare application difficult. Regardless of anything, hits like a truck. 21:35:29 elliptic: those were added later! they're a hack!!! 21:35:47 True Elf has 7 floors and no blademasters/master archers 21:35:50 YOU'RE a hack 21:35:54 I like how it mentions quick blades as if those actually make it significantly more dangerous 21:36:02 and totally ineffective against silence 21:36:04 and is awful 21:36:08 but it's mechanically cohesive!!! 21:36:09 PleasingFungus: when did such an elf exist (if ever) 21:36:42 %git 718202ee6b6445890db808f4420073e2cce506c2 21:36:43 07greensnark02 * 0.3-a0-530-g718202e: Manual update (David). 10(8 years ago, 31 files, 683+ 422-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=718202ee6b64 21:36:47 hm 21:36:52 oh, yeah, check the commit message for that 21:36:55 looks like it's "pre-0.3" 21:37:13 also, the chance of a blademaster generating with 2 quick blades is 0.15%, which is higher than I expected 21:37:14 I see 21:37:29 minmay: I thought it was higher than that 21:37:40 again I'm not saying that elf shouldn't be changed (it should) 21:37:50 it can probably pick up 2 quick blades from the vault, if the vault somehow generates 2 quick blades 21:37:57 but I do want some thought put into "how does this play distinctively from other areas; what makes this area feel unique" 21:38:01 "why should this area exist" 21:38:24 rather than just "slap a bunch of different types of enemies in and call it a day" (let's have dragons! let's have demons! let's have...) 21:38:31 oh, actually it may just be 3.8% 21:38:41 minmay: 1/26? 21:38:46 well that's an extreme characterization, I certainly wouldn't do it haphazardly 21:38:46 yes 21:38:51 that sounds right 21:39:03 but yeah nothing awful specific at this point, I'll probably make a wiki thing 21:39:03 gammafunk: yeah I know you wouldn't, I'm just trying to focus you more on what I care about 21:39:05 as opposed to like 21:39:10 high elf stuff 21:39:11 also pleasingfungus wtf is your thing with silence, its already a bad spell 21:39:12 idk 21:39:26 PleasingFungus: it's a good point and I'm glad you brought it up 21:39:30 minmay: I was making a joke, and a reference to why blademasters/master archers were added. 21:39:34 good goal to keep in mind 21:39:41 IMO gammafunk should work on what he cares about 21:39:46 yes, elf was certainly ineffective against old silence :P 21:39:51 and if that doesn't line up with what you care about then you can work on it too :P 21:40:06 that's sort of the point of having multiple people on the team 21:40:12 also the dragon suggestion obviously includes removing them from zot... 21:40:14 yes, I won't revert all PleasingFungus commits *this* time 21:40:27 minmay: no def. I'd need to add zot dragon types 21:40:28 gamma is gonna put Robin in elf as a punching bag... 21:40:33 I'll brainstorm those with you, minmay 21:40:36 who hates rotten branch? 21:40:36 ijyb can spawn in elf 21:40:39 i i r c 21:40:44 what 21:40:54 admittedly it's a dumb vault, like the stupid metal concert one 21:41:09 yeah its that high level negotiation vault 21:41:16 it also gets like sigmund and blork i think 21:41:17 !lm * uniq=ijyb place=elf 21:41:20 pla...right 21:41:26 No milestones for * (uniq=ijyb place=elf). 21:41:38 maybe I'm thinking of another early unique that shouldn't be in elf 21:41:40 !lm * uniq=ijyb place!=d s=place 21:41:43 670 milestones for * (uniq=ijyb place!=d): 259x Orc:1, 133x Temple, 42x Vaults:4, 41x Vaults:3, 23x Vaults:1, 22x Lair:7, 21x Lair:2, 19x Vaults:2, 17x Lair:6, 17x Lair:1, 16x Lair:4, 14x Lair:3, 11x Vaults:7, 8x Vaults:5, 7x Vaults:6, 7x Abyss, 6x Lair:5, 4x Orc:2, 2x Abyss:1, Lair:10 21:41:57 orc ijyb? 21:42:03 did ijyb really generate in lair that much 21:42:03 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:09 !lm * recent uniq=ijyb place!=d s=place 21:42:11 176 milestones for * (recent uniq=ijyb place!=d): 25x Temple, 21x Vaults:3, 18x Lair:7, 15x Lair:4, 14x Vaults:1, 14x Lair:6, 14x Lair:2, 14x Vaults:4, 12x Lair:1, 12x Lair:3, 11x Vaults:2, 5x Lair:5, Abyss:1 21:42:17 -!- Basil is now known as Guest21188 21:42:23 ... 21:42:30 !lm * uniq=ijyb place=lair x=cv 21:42:30 vaults:3 21:42:30 maybe there was a bug? 21:42:33 114. [2015-03-10 09:25:29] [cv=0.17-a] obsessed the Phalangite (L13 MfBe of Trog) killed Ijyb on turn 14093. (Lair:5) 21:42:35 -!- Guest21188 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:42:41 or a vault I guess 21:42:47 x=kmap? 21:42:52 oh won't work 21:42:53 nm 21:42:54 gammafunk: doesn't work 21:43:08 !vault erik_1 21:43:09 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des;hb=HEAD#l1104 21:43:18 very thematic 21:43:49 !vault elf_orc_summit_meeting 21:43:50 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/elf.des;hb=HEAD#l678 21:43:55 this is the other one I was talking about 21:44:06 -!- tigertrap has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:44:14 the good old days, when you could have a vault named "erik_1" instead of names being 40 characters long 21:44:30 minmay_is_a_big_loser_orc_elf_1_revised 21:44:50 wow, elf:# 21:44:52 er $ 21:45:28 IMO vaults shouldn't place uniques in branches where they don't normally generate 21:45:29 as a rule 21:45:39 yep 21:45:54 cerebov in orc 21:45:55 !lg * max=length(map) x=map 21:45:59 4048971. [map=elven_hall_of_blades_hangedman_alternative; nicolae_blade_entry_sentries_behind_glass] cheetah7071 the Fencer (L17 HuGl of Elyvilon), slain by Wiglaf (a +0 broad axe) on Elf:2 (elven_hall_of_blades_hangedman_alternative; nicolae_blade_entry_sentries_behind_glass) on 2015-03-11 07:58:51, with 123823 points after 47845 turns and 1:52:13. 21:46:07 |amethyst: anything else you wanted to push before tagging 0.16? 21:46:22 question applies to anyone else here, of course 21:46:35 !send minmay more subvaults... 21:46:36 Sending more subvaults... to minmay. 21:46:45 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:45 remove everything added to 0.16 and roll it back to 0.15 21:47:12 so if I have 10 "plate armour" on the ground, do I assume they are all +0 or worse? or do I need to actually try them all on to see if one of them is a +X? thought that that's what 'enchanted plate armour' was for. to indicate it could have a +X or be cursed. 21:47:36 johnstein: they are all +0 or cursed if I understand the current system correctly 21:47:39 I asked in ##crawl and a couple said that it could be anything still. but that didn't jive with what I thought you guys added 21:47:53 but I might not, I keep being confused about these things 21:48:20 elliptic: ok. that way I'm not burdened with having to try them all on. ty. I will assume that's how it is 21:48:21 I think they might be negative but not cursed 21:48:23 "enchanted" is just applied to weapons afaik 21:48:24 not sure 21:48:35 elliptic: if a vault placed them as "damaged" they could be below +0 and not cursed 21:48:47 but yes that's how it is 21:48:57 PleasingFungus: I think such items don't exist except in vaults 21:48:58 "enchanted" implies that you've identified type but not enchantment, which currently can only happen for weapons 21:49:01 -!- Icadius has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:04 elliptic: vaults exist! vaults are real! 21:49:07 enchanted is for when it's glowing and a monster was wielding it, so you saw that it didn't have a brand 21:49:10 PleasingFungus: lies 21:49:12 also i can't think of any vaults that still do that 21:49:15 elliptic: admittedly 21:49:28 !vault old_forge 21:49:29 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/float.des;hb=HEAD#l1146 21:49:39 only weapons though 21:49:51 ...wow i thought that was removed like three versions ago 21:49:51 ah 21:49:55 johnstein: it's always *possible* that a bug has caused a positive-enchantment or ego item to be generated without a rune/glowing/etc mark. I don't know fo any bugs at present, tho 21:49:57 grated_community can place a damaged plate armour 21:49:59 *of any such bugs 21:50:03 as well as a damaged large shield 21:50:15 also a damaged chain mail or damaged regular shield 21:50:20 maybe change those things 21:50:20 grated_community does a lot of suspicious things yes 21:50:35 <|amethyst> !vault lasty_cornered_adventurer 21:50:36 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des;hb=HEAD#l3246 21:50:45 that one too 21:50:52 <|amethyst> that one is a bit weird now 21:51:05 I was about to say 21:51:05 <|amethyst> what with jellies not doing that 21:51:14 lasty...!? 21:51:24 maybe they ate the items then decided to spit them out again 21:51:29 "eww, cooties!" 21:51:34 <|amethyst> that one was added long before lasty was a dev, when jellies did do that 21:52:40 I figured 21:53:55 hm. kind of weird that halflings are less dex-focused now, but still only get dex from random level-ups 21:54:26 what does "less dex-focused" mean exactly? just their starting stats? 21:54:36 stats and apts 21:54:57 the apt changes didn't really make them want dex less 21:55:11 since they are still a small species with a good dodging apt 21:55:17 I thought they traded away some dodging apt 21:55:19 for armour apt 21:55:20 am I crazy 21:55:25 !apt ha 21:55:25 Ha: Fighting: -1, Short: 3!, Long: 0, Axes: -1, Maces: -2, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -2, Slings: 4!, Bows: 2, Xbows: -1, Throw: 3!, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: -2*, Splcast: -3, Conj: -2, Hexes: -1, Charms: 1, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 1, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: -1, MP: 0 21:55:33 they still have a good dodging apt like I said 21:55:41 and dodging in armour is still a thing 21:55:43 <+PleasingFungus> <- d:1 as a mibe...? <-- you jest, but.... 21:55:50 I wasn't joking 21:56:32 perhaps MiBe and some archetypcal caster could be called out as default choices 21:56:33 I mean, it's either choosing some subset of viable characters to throw the player into randomly (possibly literally just one combo), or choosing a random 'viable character', or giving them the character select screen 21:56:38 like having 1 dodging 1 armour vs 3 dodging -1 armour or whatever they were previously really doesn't make much difference 21:56:42 and I'd lean strongly against the third option 21:56:59 yeah, i think you're right. the character select screen is too big. even the viable combos are too numerour 21:57:28 how about this flow: Homepage -> Play -> Select Character: {Minotaur Berserker, High Elf Conjuror, Custom} 21:57:39 hecj... 21:57:46 i don't play casters ok :| 21:57:51 giving players a choice between 2-3 chars is reasonable I think 21:57:54 not HECj though 21:58:04 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:58:15 could do that or could toss them into a random one 21:58:16 what are the winningest combos 21:58:19 one screen is probably acceptable 21:58:26 mibe, dgwn, gree, maybe. 21:58:29 I would vote for DEFE probably but there are a lot of reasonable options 21:58:30 maybe, and bear with me here, it's crazy, maybe there could be a caster Zealot start 21:58:32 except that you'd have to choose weapon...... eh 21:58:42 !lg * recent s=char won 21:58:43 9166 games for * (recent won): 352x MiFi, 310x GrFi, 308x MiBe, 159x HOFi, 156x GrBe, 140x FoFi, 111x GrEE, 111x MiGl, 105x DEFE, 104x VSBe, 103x SpEn, 100x TrMo, 99x CeHu, 90x DECj, 85x DDFi, 84x DsGl, 84x OgHu, 79x DsFi, 77x DDBe, 76x HOGl, 70x DsBe, 69x VSAs, 68x VSMo, 68x GrGl, 64x OgBe, 61x MfGl, 58x VpEn, 55x HOBe, 55x NaFi, 48x VSFi, 47x GrMo, 47x DsWn, 47x GrWz, 46x DrTm, 46x KoBe, 46x MfS... 21:58:44 nah, screw weapon choice. long blade 21:58:51 sord.......... 21:58:57 PleasingFungus: MiBe gets axes ofc 21:59:04 axes are cool. 21:59:07 agreed. 21:59:10 could be confusing for newbies??? 21:59:13 what are the least winningest combos 21:59:14 since cleaving 21:59:15 But are axes the best weapon type? 21:59:16 hm true 21:59:17 yeah, that was my thinking though 21:59:18 no, give them polearms 21:59:18 the cleaving of axes is a bit nonintuitive though 21:59:28 long blades or maces are reasonable then I guess 21:59:43 MiBe long blade, DEFE, CeHu??, Custom 21:59:44 probably I'd say mace 21:59:52 man, don't throw ranged characters at new players 21:59:59 that's just mean 22:00:09 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:00:11 the reason I suggested long blade is that long blade is more stereotypical 22:00:12 fair enough 22:00:15 elliptic: m&f is more practical, lbl is cooler 22:00:28 I'd lean toward lbl for that reason, but I don't feel strongly 22:00:33 is falchion really that cool 22:00:50 they're quite falchionable 22:00:52 migl 22:00:52 to be fair, falchion is a terrible name compared to mace 22:00:58 tridents are hecka cool 22:00:59 falchion is a pretty bad name. 22:01:06 chequers: yes 22:01:09 <_miek> that's alright though because in the game its a pretty bad weapon 22:01:10 tridents are cool but reaching is not what we want for our three-second player!!! 22:01:12 gammafunk: reaching... 22:01:13 s/Falchion/Sword/ 22:01:21 no 22:01:50 http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzeyagzb5d1r1nkabo1_500.png sord..... 22:01:50 are we going to have a doritos add at the top for these players? random thought 22:02:06 gross 22:02:12 no it's a mt dew ad 22:02:23 <|amethyst> hm 22:02:30 er...how is falchion a bad name? 22:02:33 we'll get a intro overlay though. "movement is this, go down stairs with this >, press i for inventory" 22:02:37 falchions are lame 22:02:40 <|amethyst> sounds like hints mode 22:02:41 chequers: hint 22:02:43 mode 22:02:51 I said this all already 22:02:51 I have the whole plan! 22:02:56 yeah you did, but i think hint mode is sort of crap 22:02:59 falchions are cool 22:03:03 chequers: why? 22:03:05 yeah I was wondering if it's not better to just like have some overlay 22:03:07 the current implementation, I mean. the idea is perfect 22:03:20 no seriously like...what is the problem with the name "falchion" 22:03:25 minmay: it's lame 22:03:25 PleasingFungus: in short, it's modal, and you can't go back 22:03:33 minmay: when did you last hear a kid talk about falchions 22:03:39 it's an unambiguous name for a kind of sword that is fairly short 22:03:40 modal how? 22:03:45 half the potential players probably don't even know what falchion means 22:03:51 minmay had a dream about it 22:03:56 tbh I'd lean toward mibe / defe / spen 22:04:02 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: IceChat - Its what Cool People use] 22:04:21 well if reach is too complicated, stabbing isn't? 22:04:21 anyway, I need to code up guest accounts first 22:04:34 bbl 22:04:41 chequers: please remember 22:04:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: stabbing is less UI-intensive 22:04:45 don't use the stupid no_save thing 22:04:51 <|amethyst> yeah, you don't want no_save 22:04:52 |amethyst: TABTABTABTAB 22:04:52 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:00 one account per player! store account credentials in cookies! we talked about this months ago! 22:05:05 is it less common to know what a falchion is than to know what a rapier, broadaxe, flail, halberd, glaive, bardiche, etc. is? 22:05:13 yes 22:05:16 well, some of those 22:05:29 minmay: those aren't starting weapons for MiBe though 22:05:38 well they'll learn a new word 22:05:51 n1k: no the three second player won't! 22:06:21 hm 22:06:33 another option is MiFi^long sword 22:06:40 I'd think if you were going after confusing weapon names you'd start with long sword and bastard sword, since those are extremely ambiguous 22:06:50 they're swords 22:06:51 it's worse than MiBe but doesn't require learning how Trog works and it is more "normal" 22:07:06 fwiw *I* never said falchion was confusing 22:07:08 just that it's lame 22:07:17 yeah, zerk is somewhat complicated to explain 22:08:27 You could change falchion to machete, cutlass, or sabre, I guess? none of those would require changing the tile 22:08:41 sabre.... cutlass...... 22:08:48 tbqh I think a Su would be very easy as a 3-second crawl start but that's just my opinion 22:09:00 minmay: here is my position: falchion is an appropriate name, since it is a lame name for a lame weapon. 22:09:23 however, it is an unexciting thing to start a new player with. 22:09:29 aesthetically. 22:09:38 PleasingFungus: insulting longblades, you'll make him angry! 22:10:04 so...do you want an actual change here or... 22:10:26 <|amethyst> chain shift: fachion -> long sword -> scimiatar -> katana -> superkatana 22:10:31 <|amethyst> s/fach/falch/ 22:10:35 <|amethyst> s/mia/mi/ 22:10:37 <_miek> crawl should shift to using completely made up names 22:10:40 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:45 <_miek> half-sword 22:10:47 doubleswords->doublekatanas? 22:10:55 minmay: I want to start 3-second-players with a weapon that sounds minimally lame 22:10:55 <|amethyst> claymore 22:10:58 so probably mace 22:10:59 <|amethyst> oh wait 22:11:11 clayless 22:11:14 PleasingFungus: if you like "long sword" then MiFi is reasonable I think 22:11:32 huh, I would think falchion would sound less lame than the others from an intuitive standpoint 22:11:33 yeah, I was also thinking vaguely in that direction 22:11:39 migl could work but a throwing net is more complex than !might 22:11:51 minmay: I polled my little brother just now and he asserted that 'falchion' is '7/10' 22:11:55 be a lark and give 3-second-players decent randarts 22:11:57 so I blame crawl for ruining my opinion of the weapon 22:12:01 maybe like 1/10 games? 22:12:03 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:07 whats 'hand axe' 22:12:09 PleasingFungus: ask him how cool a background "summoner" sounds 22:12:25 in before we find out PF's lil' bro is like 20 22:12:48 22 as of yesterday 22:12:54 <|amethyst> I could ask my lil' bro, who is 31 22:12:54 haha 22:13:01 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:03 he's so adorable! a little tiny baby man 22:13:10 oh 22:13:19 im an only child 22:13:25 MiFi + long blade makes sense 22:13:30 |amethyst: I'm trying to specify an empty set, but the template code throws up when I give it { } in species-data.h 22:13:33 also, per-player accounts is haaaarrder 22:13:37 minmay: I am completely unsurprised 22:13:41 chequers: is it really? 22:13:42 we're your family, minmay 22:13:45 it seems like it'd be a lot easier 22:14:05 well, generating unique names across all servers is harder 22:14:14 |amethyst: is there a nicer way to specify it than "set()" 22:14:14 and also they're uglier 22:14:16 well my concern is a bit around game tracking, as in we'd maybe have trouble with it to some degree? 22:14:21 chequers: this is why we need unified log-in! 22:14:29 yeah, but I wanted to do this bit first! 22:14:33 chequers: but, um, also 22:14:40 you don't need to generate unique names across all servers 22:14:43 until we get unified log-in 22:14:59 then account merging gets messy. I mean, it's not that bad 22:15:10 crawler-cpo-0001 crawler-cao-0001 is the worst case name 22:15:15 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hmm 22:15:23 yeah but we don't care about across server now, and there's nothing lost when we move to unified login server 22:15:45 at least depending on what all one can do with this guest account, I guess 22:15:45 that honestly sounds like a much simpler problem than "support multiple people playing on one account", and much better functionality than "no saves, no logfiles, no etc" 22:15:50 I mean 22:15:53 you solved it right there 22:15:55 the problem is solved 22:16:22 like you can register and transfer the game? 22:16:29 while being a guest 22:16:47 then milestones change 22:17:55 i don't think that's neccessary 22:18:24 PleasingFungus: i agree that per-player accounts have more features, I'm just not convinced all the features are actually helpful to new player experience 22:18:30 well it'd be forcing people to quit their progress 22:18:41 right, but new players die on d:3 anwyay 22:18:47 chequers: if I close the tab, and then re-open the tab, and I am back where I was before 22:18:55 that is an enormously superior experience to the alternative 22:19:03 they may not die on d:3 22:19:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, seems to work for me 22:19:20 actually yeah, protecting against accidental tab death is worthwhile 22:19:25 but now the names won't be prettyyy 22:19:27 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: let me take a look at the branch 22:19:57 I guess I'm going to just tag 0.16 after I get the debian dir properly updated...unless someone speaks up and says....hold up 22:20:23 need an osx build? 22:20:39 03PleasingFungus02 07[species_data] * 0.17-a0-101-g0a3e840: Clean up stat growth 10(36 seconds ago, 2 files, 42+ 51-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a3e840ed3a9 22:20:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: can you show me your code with the error? 22:20:50 chequers: geekosaur has that probably covered and has a dev cert, so probably not 22:20:53 ^ replace the set() with { } and see what happens 22:20:57 I'll ping you if we gut stuck there, though 22:21:03 there's a few of them (e.g. for mu) 22:21:05 cool 22:21:06 he's going to try tomorrow 22:21:16 Lasty: did that beogh change you made go into 0.16? 22:21:52 looks like no 22:22:03 guess that's the first topic in 0.17 changelog 22:22:11 imo move it in so we have fewer people playing beogh in 0.17 <_< 22:22:13 >_> 22:22:19 <_< >_> @_@ 22:22:21 <_miek> what's the change? 22:22:24 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: what compiler? 22:22:34 !lm * cv>=0.17 god=beogh 22:22:35 No milestones for * (cv>=0.17 god=beogh). 22:22:42 !lm * cv>=0.17-a god=beogh 22:22:44 806. [2015-03-12 00:34:47] Monkaria the Executioner (L17 HOGl of Beogh) killed Nergalle on turn 34227. (Snake:5) 22:22:49 clang?? 22:22:49 clang 22:23:00 !lm * cv>=0.17-a god=beogh s=src 22:23:01 806 milestones for * (cv>=0.17-a god=beogh): 390x cszo, 118x cwz, 117x cao, 116x clan, 65x cpo 22:23:18 impressive how many south korean players we have 22:23:19 !hs * cv=0.17-1 beogh won 22:23:20 No games for * (cv=0.17-1 beogh won). 22:23:23 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: works for me 22:23:24 !hs * cv=0.17-a beogh won 22:23:24 -1? 22:23:25 5. hanon12 the Tortoise (L25 HOFi of Beogh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-04 11:53:25, with 43943053 points after 32875 turns and 5:10:27. 22:23:31 ah 22:23:34 he's on the case already! 22:23:36 |amethyst: feh! 22:23:36 damnit, I thought it was me! 22:23:38 good old hanon12 22:23:42 !hs * cv=0.17-a beogh won !cwz 22:23:43 4. Farquar the Orcish Porcupine (L27 HOMo of Beogh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2015-03-04 00:09:34, with 11931630 points after 136162 turns and 1d+1:26:49. 22:23:48 !hs * god=beogh 22:23:50 38060. hanon12 the Slayer (L23 LOFi of Beogh), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-01-19 13:42:12, with 47803653 points after 30139 turns and 6:03:03. 22:23:54 hanon12 is the beogh champion 22:24:02 I am actually sincerely glad he's still getting super fast beogh wins 22:24:08 even after we fixed the legendary pan glitch 22:24:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: are you sure you didn't put the frequency inside the {} or something? 22:24:16 yeah he almost matched that previous one 22:24:16 I worried that was the source of his power 22:24:17 !lg thrall cv=0.17-a max=sc 22:24:18 No games for thrall (cv=0.17-a). 22:24:23 |amethyst: yes, it was just { } 22:24:24 !hs * cv=0.17-a beogh won -log 22:24:25 5. hanon12, XL25 HOFi, T:32875: http://webzook.net:82/morgue/trunk/hanon12/morgue-hanon12-20150304-115325.txt 22:24:56 <|amethyst> what version of clang? 22:25:16 right to slime after spider, good job hanon 22:25:44 oh wow and he can still do tomb post-vaults 22:25:56 wonder how many orcs he loses there 22:26:05 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:34 I bet he has some new techniques we can't even imagine. We should tv that some time 22:26:55 it's not terribly unlike playing a summoner 22:27:11 if you look at his action table in these games, there's like 1k melee 22:27:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:27:37 yeah...I'd like to see which Beogh gifts he chooses now, as well 22:27:52 he just has to rush in and rescue orcs from death, something I don't have to do 22:27:55 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:11 the conventional wisdom is 1-h reach + shield is ideal 22:28:17 <_miek> death cob for cutie 22:28:17 since 2h add a lot of delay to the orc attacks 22:28:37 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:28:42 but with new boegh gifting you can't make all of them have that ideal 22:28:45 old beogh you could 22:28:46 i would like to get things like a piety meter per-turn for games like that 22:28:59 what does that mean 22:29:00 or dps per-10-turns 22:29:12 damage per second per 10 turns 22:29:37 well beogh isn't a big piety user...he used smite 8 times 22:29:59 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:21 ooooh 22:30:46 one question I have is how was he using so much mp 22:30:49 a lot of |energy 22:31:01 I do see a bunch of haste but not ridiculous looking 22:31:08 regen? 22:31:15 it's 3mp 22:31:18 ya 22:31:20 hm 22:31:30 32734 | D:5 | Gained mutation: You are robust (+10% HP). [mutagenic glow] 22:31:31 gammafunk: that is a ton of haste 22:31:43 http://puu.sh/gwIWU/d27bc7a191.png 22:31:43 elliptic: yeah I was trying to think how much it was 22:31:51 messing around with some soh:geh looks 22:31:52 didn't seem all that much to me, but it probably is just hasting allies 22:31:53 the |energy seems to roughly match up to the haste use 22:32:00 probably mainly on orcs, yes 22:32:04 I haste a lot with sif, but I have sif, so 22:32:11 CanOfWorms: that is a hard outline 22:32:12 can hasted allies get glow 22:32:18 heh, no 22:32:20 hard to make out what's going on with the hands (?) 22:33:05 hmm 22:33:59 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:17 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:32 -!- xordid has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:37:25 in general a very hard contrast between top 3rd and the rest 22:37:40 the glow could work, could look cool & powerful 22:37:46 but it's a really hard cut-off at present 22:39:31 yeah 22:39:40 http://puu.sh/gwJqF/0cf019b8eb.png 22:39:49 these are the current non-flourished versions 22:39:59 i always imagined the soh as a magically floating thingy like in spirited away 22:40:16 trying out different things to make them more differentiated from each other 22:40:22 mostly with the scales 22:40:33 e.g. http://puu.sh/gwJtM/0b4aff1e1a.png 22:40:39 soh:coc stays frosty 22:41:35 I can't seem to keep the readability though 22:41:36 what are you picture drawing there? 22:42:01 the serpent... of hell! 22:42:02 TWAAAAANG 22:42:13 oh twang dang indeed 22:50:10 -!- Sky_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:54:55 does t 22:54:59 *does tavern typically have spam bots 22:55:19 this guy in GDD is the first I can remember seeing 22:55:31 <|amethyst> they usually get deleted quickly 22:55:58 <|amethyst> At least two tavern threads have been removed from google's index because of spam bots 22:55:58 its a great offer this time though 22:56:10 FR: metal mining and crafting 22:56:42 <|amethyst> https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10335742 https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/10302950 22:56:43 metal detector mutation: you can sense the presence of weapons 22:57:09 ok, final call for any last 0.16 commits before I push the tag? 22:57:20 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:32 pull the trigger? discharge the wand? release the spiders? summon the X? pick up the ORB? 22:57:43 release the phial! 22:57:45 <|amethyst> http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/domains/develz.org/ 22:57:52 <|amethyst> we have a name? 22:57:54 destroy the orb 22:58:16 The Great Annihilating Truth, I think it was 22:58:16 lionsgate 22:58:19 according to PleasingFungus 22:58:31 The Great Annihilating Commit 22:58:36 oh I should try to better follow that convention 22:58:48 chequers: that one is Grunt-endorsed 22:58:49 let's see, did we put the name just in the 0.15.0 tag or also in the last commit or... 22:58:52 so I can't go against it! 22:59:36 I should clear all my 0.15 games so I can start fresh on 0.15 22:59:38 *0.16 22:59:58 I wonder what I still have to splat 23:00:02 <|amethyst> hm 23:00:28 <|amethyst> I guess the release titles aren't actually in the repo anywhere 23:00:33 <|amethyst> just the announcements 23:00:40 <|amethyst> FR: go back and add them to the changelog 23:00:53 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:00 well we can put it in the tag message this time 23:01:13 unless the following is just more inspirational: 23:01:25 %git log 0.15-b1 23:01:25 Could not find commit log 0.15-b1 (git returned 128) 23:01:31 ogwz^K, opas, mune, higl^B, trmo^O, kone^A, febe^T, dgcj, fesu^M, drck^X and cehu^D 23:01:32 that's a lot of games 23:01:34 %git 7e3910a46e314b084a6cd686c16d61ea1ba205eb 23:01:34 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-b1: oops 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e3910a46e31 23:01:37 <|amethyst> Heizölrückstoßabdämpfung, Pacific Pachyderm, Frantic Frenzied Felines, Victory Valedictory, Save the Pacific Northwest Tree Octopus, Arachnophobia, High Vaultage, Pan-Galactic Gargoyle Blasters, The Shadowy Depths of Madness, Storm Over Zot 23:01:41 !inspire gammafunk 23:01:42 that PleasingFungus does have a way with words 23:01:51 I can't believe octopode are that old 23:02:01 and then there's 23:02:03 %git 69783ea0505b8a54b95c175d88b11e80d9c08c6f 23:02:03 07Grunt02 * 0.15.0: Ham-fistedly rename strings.{cc,h} to stringutil.{cc,h}. 10(7 months ago, 153 files, 684+ 684-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=69783ea0505b 23:02:09 potions of brilliance should be turned off from autopickup with trog 23:02:17 same way scrolls of amnesia are 23:02:24 rast: unusually useful for trog followers, actually 23:02:26 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.1/20150305021524]] 23:02:37 evocations? 23:02:40 nope 23:02:41 <|amethyst> stat death 23:02:43 ^ 23:02:45 ah yes 23:03:06 that's a real edge case 23:03:36 <|amethyst> also, can we turn ?random effects into ?butterflies, make it work all the time, make it non-useless, and reduce its frequency? 23:03:41 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-70-gb617880: Update the debian directory for 0.16.0 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b61788070244 23:03:41 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-71-geb6adce: Update the changelog 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=eb6adcee8fe5 23:03:45 -!- tingol3 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:03:49 CanOfWorms: god, youve contributed more to this game in like 1 week than I have in 5 years 23:03:58 ??minmay 23:03:59 minmay[1/19]: http://cowmuffins.net/stuff/crawl/me.ogg 23:04:11 FR: all detrimental scrolls/potions/jewelry are reworked into situationally-useful-but-neutral stuff 23:04:11 -!- obelus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:04:18 |amethyst: noooo :( 23:04:21 random effects is cool 23:04:32 on the other hand it's just a bunch of tiles :v 23:04:34 I mean it might be a good idea but 23:04:41 I would miss random effects 23:04:45 there are already not enough inventory slots 23:04:46 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: at least mark it non-useless 23:04:49 tiles have more of an impact on the game than most balance changes imo 23:04:51 !lg * ikiller~~draconian recent s=ikiller 23:04:52 for the majority of players 23:04:52 580 games for * (ikiller~~draconian recent): 67x a white draconian, 47x a red draconian, 45x a purple draconian, 38x a black draconian, 26x a yellow draconian, 23x a green draconian, 18x a pale draconian, 14x a grey draconian, 11x a mottled draconian, 10x a green draconian zealot, 10x a green draconian monk, 10x a black draconian monk, 9x a yellow draconian knight, 9x a pale draconian knight, 9x a... 23:05:14 !lg * cikiller~~draconian recent s=cikiller 23:05:17 566 games for * (cikiller~~draconian recent): 293x a draconian, 69x a draconian monk, 52x a draconian knight, 45x a draconian zealot, 41x a draconian annihilator, 38x a draconian scorcher, 12x a draconian caller, 11x a draconian shifter, 4x a draconian simulacrum, a draconian annihilator (illusionary) 23:05:19 make random effects either: reassemble or butterfly 23:05:35 potion of poison -> enemies that strike you in melee are also poisoned 23:05:56 hey pleasingfungus did someone already announce they`re making the .16 SA thread? i love disappointing people and want to preempt whoever it is making one 23:06:06 someone's already making it yes 23:06:11 they'll post it either tomorrow or friday morning 23:06:11 potion of poison > potion of mighty ambrosia, strong might effect while poisoned 23:06:30 twelwe: one person did, yes 23:06:35 oh 23:06:39 beaten by brannock.... 23:06:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk: btw, did you want to use you mod powers on that thread brannock mentioned? 23:06:49 oh, sorry which one? 23:06:51 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:06:54 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15442 23:07:50 man I'm reading over the 0.16 changelist 23:07:57 after having played 0.16 trunk for like 6 months 23:08:02 it's a shock to see how much was actually changed 23:10:00 <|amethyst> gammafunk: btw, that's the only entry in the changelog that has .0 23:10:36 !lg . 1 23:10:37 1/551. chequers the Grappler (L11 TrCK of Xom), engulfed by a cloud of freezing vapour in IceCv (ice_cave_caverns_02) on 2014-08-23 04:12:14, with 10692 points after 7951 turns and 1:05:07. 23:11:01 !lg . x=avg(xl) 23:11:01 551 games for chequers: avg(xl)=5.89 23:11:14 i've only gotten worse :( 23:11:22 a good first death 23:11:34 |amethyst: oh, you'd prefer it didn't? 23:12:05 I guess consistency 23:12:11 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I think it's fine either way but should be consistent 23:12:25 <|amethyst> also, the second half of that commit should go in 0.16 too 23:12:40 <|amethyst> (with whatever change for the ".0") 23:12:45 yeah it's in already 23:12:49 but I'll remove the .0 23:12:53 and we can update the trunk one 23:13:15 <|amethyst> did I miss a commit? 23:13:31 <|amethyst> %git stone_soup-0.16 23:13:32 07ebering02 {gammafunk} * 0.16-b1-53-g52541ea: Simplify shop/shopping list interaction with duplicate stock (#8934) 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 12+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=52541ead7d94 23:13:42 <|amethyst> still says "Stone Soup 0.16 (up to 0.16-a0-4134-g2ca243f)" in that commit 23:13:42 |amethyst: no I haven't pushed 23:13:44 <|amethyst> aha 23:13:47 <|amethyst> sorry :) 23:13:54 np 23:13:56 I'm not 23:13:58 !glasses 23:13:58 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 23:14:01 ..pushy 23:14:35 ghost crabs bot moved from the crypt to the swamp but who ever heard of a crab living in a swamp. realism loses again 23:14:36 <|amethyst> git shove trunk 23:15:14 speaking as a swamp dweller 23:15:15 <|amethyst> http://www.thefishsite.com/articles/1462/ 23:15:28 <|amethyst> Has a picture of "Swamp crab pen in mangroves" 23:15:43 ok then well who ever heard of a crab becoming a ghost then huh 23:15:45 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:50 i haev 23:16:52 have 23:17:04 I quite like the new swamp flavor of swampy monsters & decaying/undead monsters 23:17:06 mega spooky imo 23:17:15 it gives it a niche that it didn't have before 23:17:23 it would be good if swamp had a niche, yes 23:17:28 nicolae 23:17:31 if that even is your real name 23:17:36 it's not, but go on 23:17:38 prove it. the crab part 23:17:45 you can't prove ghosts!!! 23:17:51 ghost crabs are real . . . 23:18:02 and super cute!!! 23:18:04 this is between me and him 23:18:14 yallre just here to spectate 23:18:21 more like spectreate 23:18:27 i can't prove it 23:18:31 if i proved it you would go insane 23:18:40 the human mind was never meant to comprehend a ghost crab 23:18:52 another fine ownage on my behalf then i do declare 23:19:24 beholding the ghost crab, the only one owned is yourself 23:19:43 the haunting click click click of their claws 23:19:47 scuttling sideways through walls 23:19:58 i am beholden to no man beast or crab and the only clicking i do is with my here typing fingers 23:20:33 no man beast of crab ghost or otherwise 23:20:44 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16-b1-54-gf517508: Update the debian directory for 0.16.0 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f517508de3aa 23:20:44 03gammafunk02 07[stone_soup-0.16] * 0.16.0: Final changelog for 0.16 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82265720bc8b 23:21:18 nicolae-> more like spectreate < silently spectreating... 23:21:40 you say that now, twelwe 23:21:46 Guess I could have put the title in that last commit message as well, but it's in the tag 23:21:50 but one day you'll go down to a beach or harbor at night 23:21:57 and you'll hear the clicking of the ghost crabs 23:22:02 and then you'll never stop hearing it 23:22:14 everything i say i`ve said now at the time 23:22:32 i thought i would say the same things 23:22:48 PleasingFungus: 0.16.0 is tagged, bagged, and ready to annihilate. We probably won't have binaries up until tomorrow, if you wanted to do an announcement 23:22:48 <|amethyst> FR: rename some monsters apparently pointlessly, but at the end have a big reveal where lantern of shadows is renamed to the spectre gadget 23:23:00 holy crap 23:23:02 -!- hanshenrik has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:04 yeah good idea 23:23:12 uuggggggghhh 23:23:13 gammafunk: I was going to wait for binaries 23:23:23 yeah, a v. reasonable idea 23:23:31 v cool tho 23:23:33 the tagging 23:23:35 I approve 23:23:41 or you could be like "No downloads lol get rekt n00bs" 23:23:43 if you wanted 23:24:21 might be getting ahead of myself here, but is there a 0.17 goals list, like there was for 0.16 23:24:24 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:36 <|amethyst> "We've decided 0.16 will be an online-only release. Accounts will cost $1 per month, $50 if they contain the strings "420", "hitler", or "penis" 23:24:37 we usually make a planning doc at the beginning 23:24:39 <|amethyst> " 23:24:39 0.16 had squarelos so I assume that was bumped down to 0.17 23:24:46 this changelog is way too serious, no jokes or anything 23:24:51 wellllll 23:25:02 there's a bit in there about nemelex still existing 23:25:07 squarelos was always a bit of a "stretch goal" 23:25:18 we should kickstart squarelos 23:25:20 in general I wouldn't take the planning documents too seriously 23:25:22 here's what happens 23:25:32 we make a list of a bunch of stuff we want 23:25:35 and then we work on it for a week or so 23:25:43 and then we forget about it entirely for the next several months 23:25:44 i don`t even see the pizza rc file change in there 23:25:58 and then somewhere around release we say "hm, I wonder how much of the planning doc we actually did?" 23:26:21 its like a time capsule 23:26:22 yeah it's only of much use at the beginning and end 23:26:29 wooohoooooo! 23:26:31 it seems like you guys did quite a bit 23:26:40 and shield rework should be ready for 0.17 23:26:42 congrats devs 23:26:51 the devs suck 23:26:53 <|amethyst> guess I have a few 0.17 things to look at soon 23:26:53 * chequers pats PleasingFungus on the head a little condescendingly 23:26:56 might give people some ideas on what to prioritize but during the release people just do what they wants 23:27:02 *flips off all the devs and then rides off on a motorcycle* 23:27:03 alright, time to make a patch that changes TRJ's tile based on his HP 23:27:04 <|amethyst> ability_slot and the related changes 23:27:08 -!- solgg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:27:11 so we can have him melt into a puddle as he takes damage 23:27:16 *it 23:27:26 75 50 25 10? 23:27:30 or what other breakpoints 23:27:35 probably 5 23:27:40 100/75/50/25/10 23:27:48 FR: talltile for serpent of hell 23:27:51 <|amethyst> I also think chrisoelmueller had a UI thing I was putting off until after release? 23:27:53 I'm working on it 23:27:55 @??the_royal_jelly 23:27:55 royal jelly (08J) | Spd: 14 | HD: 21 | HP: 230 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 5008(acid:7d3), 3008(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, see invisible | Res: 06magic(180), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 08blind, 12drown | Vul: 11silver | XP: 14176 | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 23:27:56 :O 23:28:03 oh I'm so sorry worms 23:28:08 http://puu.sh/gwJqF/0cf019b8eb.png 23:28:11 <|amethyst> oh 23:28:20 fixed hp, so changing tile would tell you Too Much Information 23:28:22 <|amethyst> In game options UI should be a 0.17 thing 23:28:25 about trj's hp 23:28:26 what? 23:28:32 I'll be sad to see the hyper-stylized current Serpent of Hell go away though 23:28:33 but the game displays the HP bar...? 23:28:43 <|amethyst> but I don't know if anyone actually wants to look at it 23:28:51 it changes based on...I don't know what, the hp bar 23:28:58 probably it is a percentage 23:29:03 it's not done yet, I'm going to try and get the stylized like before 23:29:06 *it 23:29:14 although it's kind of annoying 23:29:24 |amethyst: yeah, if you feel like wiki editing, feel free to get 0.17 doc going 23:29:32 otherwise I'll do it at some point 23:29:34 I love the square-ish breath for tartarus-serpent 23:29:37 <|amethyst> not tonight anyway 23:29:55 building 23:30:03 hey gammafunk speaking of 0.17 is there anything you think needs fixing besides adding the variable item count to alphashops and adding loot to phyte club 23:30:04 gammafunk: you'd base it on the displayed damage increments, not the actual HP 23:30:06 when's the official blogpost? 23:30:10 it'd be pretty hard to do otherwise, I suspect 23:30:24 chequers: when binaries are up for windows/os x/linux, so hopefully tomorrow? 23:30:43 displayed damage increments? you mean severely wounded etc? 23:30:57 yeah that'd be a good way to do it 23:31:19 lightly damaged, moderately wounded, severely wounded, almost dead 23:31:21 also, I think the existing soh tiles can probably be fused with the dragon tiles 23:31:27 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:31:36 CanOfWorms: so you have 4 tiles total, with the current one being lightly damaged or above 23:31:36 coc > ice, geh > fire and tar > shadow 23:31:46 <|amethyst> who could forget MDAM_DEAD? 23:32:04 gammafunk: yeah, % based 23:32:16 that's what I meant by the numbers :v 23:32:18 CanOfWorms: no we're saying you'd use the existing indication system 23:32:18 <|amethyst> and yeah, that's pretty much all you'd have to go by, since tiles are picked using the monster_info, not the monster 23:32:26 CanOfWorms: like it'd change exactly when that does 23:32:36 oh, sure 23:32:37 that works 23:33:16 aaaa, hangedman vaults 23:33:18 lightly damaged would be the 75% tier (although I guess it's closer to 85%?) 23:33:29 PF - what's the status on shield reform? I'm curious since I use shields practically every game and the 5/15 breakpoint is becoming very unexciting 23:33:37 nothing. I gave up on it and retired 23:33:38 which hangedman vault is it this time 23:33:41 rip 23:33:45 move gdr to shield, tia 23:33:55 CanOfWorms: man I like you and I like your tiles but 23:33:58 I was looking forward to that 23:33:59 every single gameplay idea you suggest 23:34:01 is really bad 23:34:05 haha 23:34:09 then... do the opposite 23:34:11 ! 23:34:13 <|amethyst> guaranteed damage evasion 23:34:18 Brannock_: ya I was too 23:34:20 :( 23:34:30 it's still in a branch; someone else can take up the torch 23:34:37 i don't think any of the other devs care as much as I do, tho 23:34:44 hmm 23:34:47 the torch has fallen into a snowdrift 23:34:50 <|amethyst> "other devs" 23:34:50 it's guttered out long ago 23:34:51 <|amethyst> see! 23:34:58 nicolae-: I'm looking at hangedman_hellfire_club and hangedman_elemental_grid_stream 23:35:08 !vault hangedman_hellfire_club 23:35:08 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/geh.des;hb=HEAD#l105 23:35:22 trying to figure out how to adjust their monster set without breaking something 23:35:27 so much shuffling... 23:35:43 -!- Cerpin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:02 it's weird that 2 isn't assigned pale draconian zealots instead of scorchers... 23:36:02 SUBST: 4 = 3, ' = .:99 >:1, ( = ( <:2, ) = ) >:2, ~- = . 23:36:15 and you all call me crazy for alphashops. pft. 23:36:31 did anyone call you crazy 23:36:57 !vault hangedman_elemental_grid_straem 23:36:58 Can't find hangedman_elemental_grid_straem. 23:36:59 !vault hangedman_elemental_grid_stream 23:37:00 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/geh.des;hb=HEAD#l142 23:37:07 <|amethyst> 13:40:15 <+gammafunk> (this is for nicolae's crazy alphabet shop vaults) 23:37:10 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:37:18 <|amethyst> just the vaukt 23:37:20 <|amethyst> s/k/l/ 23:38:03 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 23:38:43 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:38:52 it's a non-integer number of shops. 23:42:01 ...sprint_mu has a white draconian scorcher 23:42:09 noice 23:42:52 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:42 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:45:41 ...can white draconians not normally be scorchers? 23:45:48 that's silly 23:46:15 it is 23:46:18 the only color/class restriction 23:46:20 for dracs 23:46:23 I see 23:46:24 that is terrible 23:46:33 it's mega goofy 23:46:38 white dracs don't even have rF- ffs 23:46:44 but 23:46:46 the apt!!! 23:46:55 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:00 I think I ran a wrong-color elementalist drac one time 23:47:15 0.16 on cpo 23:47:17 !apt dr 23:47:17 Dr: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: -1, Throw: -1, Armour: , Dodge: -1, Stealth: 0, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: 0, Hexes: -1, Charms: -1, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: -1, HP: 1, MP: 0 23:47:20 yellow draconian scorcher (04q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 69-87 | AC/EV: 8/12 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 08acid | XP: 1735 | Sp: spit acid (3d7) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], b.fire (3d25), sticky flame range (3d6), fireball (3d26), hellfire (3d20), hellfire (3d20) burst [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:47:20 %??draconian scorcher 23:47:29 it casts spells, despite the spellcasting aptitude! 23:47:52 and it has 12 ev, despite the dodging aptitude! 23:48:12 i bet you can even get a draconian monster to throw something! 23:48:30 messed up 23:49:10 !tell marvinpa mon-place.cc:513 23:49:14 03gammafunk02 07* 0.17-a0-72-gd614ac0: Tweak a version number in the changelog 10(35 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d614ac0144dd 23:49:16 minmay: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 23:49:53 !source mon-place.cc 23:49:53 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-place.cc;hb=HEAD 23:49:58 fr add a draconian class with ozocubu's refrigeration 23:49:59 !tell marvinpa don't do anything about the white drac / scorcher thing, I'm already on it 23:49:59 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 23:50:16 technically I already did something about it about half an hour ago 23:50:17 details 23:50:40 ??0.16_plan 23:50:41 0.16 plan[1/2]: 0.16 release will happen at least a few days before the {tournament}. See remaining release steps at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:0.16_plans&#release_planning 23:50:55 ??0.16_plan[2 23:50:55 0.16 plan[2/2]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:0.16_plans 23:51:23 %git b4d65d2 23:51:23 07|amethyst02 * 0.17-a0-64-gb4d65d2: Charge Wyrmbane with dragonform player felid deaths (minmay) 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b4d65d28153b 23:51:29 now I feel bad for mentioning that 23:51:52 well 23:51:58 I hadn't told you I was 23:52:06 since I'm goofily trying to keep things secret until I'm ready to spring them 23:52:07 chequers: milestones/logfile files don't seem to be up? 23:52:15 no I meant I feel bad for mentioning the felid dragon form thing 23:52:18 oh 23:52:20 haha 23:52:22 because it made someone actually spend time on it 23:52:28 I suspect |amethyst enjoyed it 23:52:29 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 23:52:32 elliptic: oops 23:52:47 <|amethyst> I in fact did enjoy it :P 23:53:00 chequers: also I tried to start a 0.16 game and it didn't work ("Unfortunately your game ended unexpectedly.") 23:53:02 also it inspired ??felid_challenge 23:53:21 elliptic: better 23:53:29 ah, working now 23:53:37 ??felid challenge 23:53:37 felid challenge[1/1]: enchant Wyrmbane to +18 on a felid. 23:53:53 crawl does this thing 23:53:59 <|amethyst> (though I do wonder how much would break if we made player::alive() return false for dead felids 23:54:00 looks like clan hasn't updated 23:54:05 <|amethyst> ) 23:54:09 !seen hong 23:54:10 I last saw hong at Tue Feb 24 09:05:33 2015 UTC (2w 1d 19h 48m 36s ago) quitting, saying '*.net *.split'. 23:54:10 2015-03-12 04:51:16,581 INFO: #992 P470 ERR: Hit Enter to continue... 23:54:15 not so useful in webtiles :) 23:56:00 chequers: what is the URL for rcfiles on CPO? 23:56:26 I tried to guess it but failed and sequell doesn't seem to know it yet 23:56:43 /dcss-rc-0.16-chequers.rc 23:56:54 (or 0.15/trunk/etc) 23:57:08 oh, they aren't all in a single directory somewhere? 23:58:28 also that URL doesn't work... 23:58:31 they are, but for some reason I made a file-rewrite rather than linking to the directories directly 23:58:38 https://crawl.project357.org/dcss-rc-trunk/chequers.rc works 23:58:46 oh, my bad 23:59:21 hmm, reckon trunk or 0.16 should be the default game? 23:59:53 <|amethyst> I can't edit my rc file 23:59:58 <|amethyst> on CPO