00:00:06 but there's teh question of what direction we want to go there 00:00:27 it wouldn't be terribly hard to extend the dgl scripts 00:00:35 but there might be more modern admin software that can help 00:00:51 and fwiw I've already extended dgl scripts to handle upgrading webtiles 00:01:33 but for manipulating branches it does get a little more complex since we don't have a real ui and we'd have to use some kind of additional sqlite table 00:02:09 i could certainly make a ui in the webtiles client easilly enough, but it'd be one-off for that purpose 00:02:13 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-b1-49-gc2c1aff 00:03:55 ??cwz 00:03:56 cwz[1/1]: Crawl server (webtiles-only) located in Korea; the server admin goes by hong on irc. http://webzook.net/ 00:04:31 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:52 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.17-a0-65-gc96cd5b (34) 00:05:47 ??0.16_plan 00:05:47 0.16 plan[1/2]: 0.16 release will happen at least a few days before the {tournament}. See remaining release steps at https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:0.16_plans&#release_planning 00:08:28 -!- ythm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:09:41 chequers: Are you planning to have the tournament style pages finished, or will that be for next tourney? 00:09:50 *new tournament style pages 00:10:28 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 00:10:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:39 gammafunk: next tourney (it seemed too involved to me to rush together for this tourney) 00:11:46 ok, good to know, thanks 00:12:20 new style to commemorate the loss of turn-based scoring and ctele! 00:12:36 and maybe even circlelos, who knows 00:12:37 if you remove ctele, I'm gonna retire from crawl dev!!! 00:12:42 waaaaaa 00:13:01 cTele removal incentive *massively* increased! 00:13:05 but 00:13:07 you forget 00:13:09 . 00:13:10 .. 00:13:12 ... 00:13:13 I'm already retired!!! 00:13:37 god, just make it a 1) retire from crawl 2) not actually retire 3) ??? 4) Profit! joke already 00:14:04 what is this, 1997 00:14:10 post it on slashdot 00:14:39 exactly! 00:15:18 gammafunk: what elliptic said 00:15:33 k, will update the plan, which makes everything seem more official 00:15:54 the conversion itself is straight forward, but three days is not enough time for elliptic to really have a fair chance of giving design feedback 00:16:45 (of course, now I will forget about it until one week before 0.17 tourney...) 00:17:53 ah, but the planning doc! 00:20:07 I tried compiling for debian testing with LTO enabled from my system (using cowbuilder, which is really nice for this) instead of using a vm, but no dice 00:20:33 seems like the only way I can compile with LTO is using the slighty more recent ubuntu stuff 00:21:05 btw, if you're updating the doc, I'm asking npkin to launch the website asap 00:21:29 chequers: please do update yourself if you feel it's helpful 00:21:31 given I & he probably won't be around at the exact time of launch, it's probably better to launch before 00:21:33 it's a wiki, so you can edit it 00:21:52 o, it's mantis, ok 00:22:02 but yeah you don't have to if it's just "wait for nap.kin" to install, since I'm sure you can track that yourself :) 00:22:47 yeah it's not very fancy and we tend to only use it near the release and maybe some at the beginning 00:23:05 *beginning of the next version, for brainstorming 00:24:25 wow, most people on cszo playing 0.16, nice 00:24:43 clever link placement did the trick, I guess 00:24:44 there 00:25:18 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:25:30 now to finish my dcss server manager before 0.16 release..... 00:25:34 chequers: this is not a release thing, but wrt player status, one thing really nice about lobby on a server is how fast it updates 00:25:46 I like the idea of one player list, but it seems it's just a bit too slow 00:25:50 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:26:34 frequently we'll be watching a game, and someone will say "well I'm saving", and then we find another game quickly, someones one that one of us starts 00:27:08 if we could have something that's at least fairly quickly updated, that'd help the server-specific lobby usage somewhat 00:27:38 still going to the same server in most cases, but it'd allow spectating more easilly across servers to use one "lobby" 00:27:50 indeed, that's what dgl-status-collect.py tries to do 00:28:08 it aggregates continuously the online players from all servers and shows them in watch.htm 00:28:32 currently 'continuously' is really 'every 3-4 minutes' but it could be wildly sped up if we wanted something closer to realtime 00:29:03 yeah, I don't think it can be quite as fast as current lobby, but if it could be much faster (http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/player-status is really slow) 00:29:10 watch.htm I'm not familiar with 00:29:17 https://crawl.project357.org/static/dcss-web/watch.htm 00:29:24 (that's live data, btw) 00:29:46 exactly one person with spectators 00:29:56 yeah that's...not right 00:30:02 cszo has games with spectators 00:30:06 oh is this only some servers? 00:30:13 all tiles 00:30:18 + servers 00:30:21 hm 00:30:30 so cdo & cszo are excluded 00:30:32 there's like 6 games on cszo with a spectator 00:30:37 https://crawl.s-z.org/#watch-simm can you look at this game and see if something looks odd 00:30:42 I'm curious if it's only me 00:30:43 cszo excluded? 00:30:51 sorry, cszo is there 00:30:54 cszo is a tiles server 00:31:24 chequers: yeah it seems to not have fully accurate info then, but that's def. a step in the right direction 00:31:34 all the monster & cloud & player tiles are offset by one for me when I look at this game... 00:32:05 well it *is* simm 00:32:08 but let me try 00:32:12 i'm just grabbing dgl-status from every server -- if spectators are incorrect that's a bug 00:32:28 chequers: it does seem incorrect, yeah; check out cszo lobby to see what I mean 00:32:45 if you could check the current /player-status for comparison (doesn't work good from where I am) that would be good info to know 00:32:52 PleasingFungus: seems ok to me? 00:32:53 because I should be getting the same urls that does 00:33:05 I tried refreshing and it was still boned 00:33:19 huh, not sure, but the game renders properly for me in chrome 00:33:24 <|amethyst> hm, how long has the session been going? 00:33:36 <|amethyst> and is this 0.16 or trunk? 00:33:41 refresh in chrome doesn't kill the websocket connection, AFAIK 00:33:43 0.16 I think 00:33:45 <|amethyst> hm 00:33:45 so visual errors can persist 00:34:00 <|amethyst> if the game was started before the nightly update 00:34:01 http://i.imgur.com/gq1f3J3.png for reference 00:34:08 I'm not sure how to see when the session began 00:34:12 is there even a way to see that? 00:34:17 <|amethyst> probably not 00:34:20 <|amethyst> let me see 00:34:33 look at the timestamp files in logdir? 00:34:52 <|amethyst> ps says started at 00:11 00:35:05 <|amethyst> so that's probably it 00:35:14 that's a good screenshot btw! 00:35:17 hahaha 00:35:29 none of those monsters are what they appear to be 00:35:54 oh heh 00:35:56 procupine 00:35:59 *porcupine 00:36:10 <|amethyst> ??procupine 00:36:11 procupine[1/1]: see {!puppet @dump procupine} 00:36:21 !lg * ikiller=porcupine br=spider 00:36:21 No games for * (ikiller=porcupine br=spider). 00:36:23 ahaha, lost souls show up as the 'removed monster' ghost 00:36:36 er, not lost souls, drowned souls 00:36:36 <|amethyst> ??lorocyporca 00:36:37 lorocyporca ~ lorocyproca[1/1]: Congratulations on typing that. It's invisible and has antimagic melee. Good at making players self-ice storm. Except not any more, since ice storm was removed! 00:36:38 you know 00:36:38 yeah if the tilesheet offset data is weird 00:37:35 oh, and he's playing console 00:37:53 which would explain why he hadn't noticed (?) 00:38:13 why would he notice if he's using the superior console interface 00:38:21 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:38:26 oo, near death 00:38:38 http://i.imgur.com/ZdOH32O.png nearly slain by that daeva 00:38:43 guess what it actually is 00:39:03 hasted so 00:39:04 asterion? 00:39:11 the effect icons are 00:39:12 also shifted 00:39:14 haha 00:39:36 it's the iconic shoals unique 00:39:41 the one designed specifically for the branch 00:39:44 back in 0.3 00:39:47 vashnia 00:39:53 catoblepas 00:40:05 Paul E. Feemus 00:40:13 CanOfWorms: we're going to make you a dev, you have what it takes 00:40:43 -!- Ystah has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:41:12 quicker wit than at least one (1) existing dev? 00:41:23 yes, gammafunk isn't very smart 00:41:23 yep 00:41:29 but we try not to hurt him 00:41:31 he's a gentle soul. 00:41:47 sorry, I thought I heard somone talk, but it was just a Retired Soul 00:42:12 fr: Retirement Mages 00:42:25 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:42:50 fr: rename harold to pleasingfungus 00:42:55 lol 00:43:04 +1, liked, subscribed, retweeted 00:44:09 shared on whatsapp 00:44:13 I feel like both harold and jory should have a --more-- before their death quote 00:44:15 but I'd just saved up enough for that fungus farm... 00:44:15 chequers: i knew i put all my points in wit for a reason 00:44:18 give it more bang 00:44:20 to wit: 00:44:42 Jory says, "No, no!" 00:44:44 --more-- 00:44:52 let the player savor the moment 00:45:03 well it'd also be nice if the lines happened before they died 00:45:14 !? 00:46:20 instead of: 00:46:35 oh, message ordering? 00:46:38 message ordering is impossible. 00:46:40 You blow up Harold! Harold says, "I should've worked less..." 00:46:52 i know it's impossible, but still 00:47:00 impossible! 00:51:54 okay can we like 00:52:08 count how many monsters have been added "recently" 00:52:24 I did that 00:53:11 well then can we hire a guy to just post a link to your post every time somebody complains about it 00:54:03 wait i made a mistake and clicked on the tavern, nm 00:54:08 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15197&p=208747&hilit=+removed#p208747 here 00:54:13 ah, you thanked it :) 00:54:26 is this about the post i made about monsters that have been added after 2011 00:54:41 no, I haven't seen that one 00:54:49 or I don't remember it, anyway 00:54:52 -!- CanOfWorms has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 00:54:54 ya 00:54:58 oops wrong window. 00:57:16 dang 00:57:18 locked by mpa 00:58:05 MPA Was Right 00:58:17 that's what my bumper sticker says! 00:58:23 i mean, that post wasn't even about total number of monsters :P the guy specifically asked about new monsters 00:58:57 ? 01:00:01 PleasingFungus: it sounded like ontoclasm was complaining about https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=210813#p210813 01:00:12 o 01:00:17 I assumed it was something in ##crawl 01:00:56 is rod of shadows really that extreme now? 01:01:01 I haven't tried it recently 01:01:09 well haven't tried it ever tbqh 01:02:13 -!- WalrusKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:02:49 bonus question: is oka really that bad now 01:03:12 in comparison to other gods? not especially, most gods are bad 01:03:19 ha 01:03:21 i just would not ever recommend following him these days if you want to enjoy playing 01:04:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:04:25 and in the specific context of ranged, if you played 2011/2012 crawl you will expect him to give you lots of ammo 01:05:34 i didn't even notice that rod of shadows changed so i would say it is still that extreme, yes :P 01:05:41 ??rod_of_shadows 01:05:42 rod of shadows[1/2]: Creates shadow creatures from a D level based on your evocations skill. Really bad with low evoc. 01:06:01 which one was the one gr*nt buffed 01:06:02 "really bad with low evoc" 01:06:03 hrm, you get like three shots of shadow creatures? 01:06:06 that's every rod in the game... 01:06:17 rod of shielding is useful with low evo 01:07:39 ah ha, I did remember correctly; gr*nt buffed it substantially on nov. 1st ( 9dedd774a5a ) (not %git -ing to avoid brutal pings) 01:07:55 provides creatures from d( evo + 5) instead of d (evo) 01:08:28 PleasingFungus: weird....I seem to recall you buffing rod of shadows specifically 01:08:33 or was it your idea but he made the commit 01:08:47 you are thinking of 01:08:48 I could be misremembering 01:08:50 %git aaec901ee2c938998a8375f5732383f0abb733ce 01:08:51 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1991-gaaec901: Buff the Box of Beasts 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 8+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aaec901ee2c9 01:08:51 ah! 01:08:52 yes 01:09:02 which references "like the Rod of Shadows buff" in its message 01:09:07 (since it is) 01:12:43 I wonder how the rod is with 20 evo... 01:12:43 -!- Krakhan|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:13:19 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 01:13:34 okay, now that i've parked mucks on all the robin accounts i could think of, i can tell you this 01:13:38 rod of shadows[2] is probably a bug 01:13:56 ??rod_of_shadows[2 01:13:56 rod of shadows[2/2]: Since it uses the OOD timer, waiting around for a huge amount of time on the floor equal to your evoc will get you similar or better results for less investment. 01:14:05 shit 01:14:36 oh yeah 01:14:38 going to remove muck for that offense 01:14:41 I remember that being discussed and agreed on 01:14:43 the bug status 01:14:48 someone should fix it imo 01:15:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:15:23 alas; I must retire :) 01:15:26 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0/20150222232811]] 01:15:55 wow, incredible tech 01:16:27 I only got to park like 10 mucks because most of my DgJrs are still up 01:16:47 hrm... 01:16:50 someone should play one, i already won one so dont worry about dying 01:16:53 I just made 01:16:56 with \shadows 01:16:59 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:17:03 ...9 caustic shrikes 01:17:06 :D 01:17:10 yes, it does that 01:17:16 and a deep elf annihilator 01:17:16 too bad my gr has to eat 01:17:19 that guy is the real killer 01:17:27 and a partidge in a pear tree 01:17:29 no that wasn't with ood 01:17:32 that was just on d:1 01:17:39 but yeah 27 evo 01:17:56 but I've gotten this with shadow creatures as well, a caustic shrike pack 01:18:10 just not *three* 01:19:02 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:20:36 i mean i guess it's not really that much stronger than regular summon spells but it stands out as being 1000 times better than all the other rods 01:21:54 <|amethyst> hm, you shouldn't get more than 1 band per casting, so five shrikes 01:22:34 |amethyst: that was three uses 01:22:36 <|amethyst> aha 01:23:06 they defeated the oof in one turn, my trusty bird friends 01:23:52 <|amethyst> anyway, if you wanted to make shadow creatures and weave shadows not respect OOD, you'd need a new MG_* flag, and an extra parameter to resolve_monster_type and pick_random_monster 01:29:03 -!- CacoS has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:29:16 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:04 ??gammafunk 01:33:04 gammafunk[1/13]: TODO: minmay_smoke_and_mirrors rakshasas, rescue the loneliest frog, grand avatar movement bug, monster ranged always going through allies, adjust stairs in profane halls and elficide, hobby: destroy all instances of pizza tornado in every universe in the multiverse 01:33:09 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:23 !learn edit s/^/Nerf muck again (RoS), // 01:33:24 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/// 01:33:29 !learn edit gammafunk[1] s/^/Nerf muck again (RoS), // 01:33:30 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/REGEX/REPLACE/opts 01:33:37 !learn edit gammafunk[1] s/^/Nerf muck again (RoS), / 01:33:38 gammafunk[1/13]: Nerf muck again (RoS), TODO: minmay_smoke_and_mirrors rakshasas, rescue the loneliest frog, grand avatar movement bug, monster ranged always going through allies, adjust stairs in profane halls and elficide, hobby: destroy all instances of pizza tornado in every universe in the multiverse 01:34:05 if no one else gets to it, maybe I can fit that in for 0.16 since that's def. a bug 01:34:31 although it may require too substantial a fix I guess 01:36:27 hrm, transparent tag is probably not needed when a vault only places a shop as a feature... 01:39:53 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 01:40:02 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:39 -!- syraine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:41:43 Why can't I move a corpse out of the way of a door 01:43:28 <|amethyst> syraine: because that would be disrespectful to the brave souls who died in Boatmurder 01:43:52 <|amethyst> s/der/dered/ 01:43:53 * ontoclasm doffs his hat respectfully 01:44:53 <|amethyst> could allow c on a skeleton to destroy it I guess 01:44:56 <|amethyst> maybe even for free 01:45:26 <|amethyst> (for free just so players don't complain when they accidentally waste a turn) 01:45:57 well it could just give a dialogue 01:46:24 but yeah there'sstill the problem of having to butcher 01:46:33 and just moving items from doors in general is kind of a drag 01:46:38 Well, there's that and sometimes I want to pick up a corpse (because I am about to starve to death and there are enemies nearby / Corpse Rot) 01:47:02 syraine: you can't pick up corpses or skeletons any more 01:47:07 Yes, I ... 01:47:08 not in doors, nor anywhere 01:47:12 Yes, I know 01:47:15 That is ... 01:47:37 That is implicit in me asking why I cannot move them from doors, I guess I comprehend the misunderstanding 01:48:07 I am saying that there are various niche situations where it may be good to pick up a corpse 01:48:20 Could there not be an unmapped command that permits one to do so 01:48:59 well we removed that feature because there were many such niche situations, yet doing so is pretty tedious 01:49:11 we'd thought about improving the corpse in door situation 01:49:31 and some ideas are: making all items/corpses just not fall in doorways, prevent closing doors at all 01:49:40 Prevent closing doors 01:49:48 -slow blink- 01:50:05 I will remove my emotional response to that for the moment 01:50:39 Well, it's certainly an issue if one dies to crossfire because one fails to slay an enemy in the correct square 01:51:04 Tedium is increased by having to juggle a goblin to avoid dying to a stone giant 01:51:14 <|amethyst> ? 01:51:20 <|amethyst> what if the monster had equipment? 01:51:36 I fail to see how doors are the problem there 01:51:40 <|amethyst> then it's three extra turns to move into the door, pick up the equipment, and move back out of the door 01:51:57 Yeah, that's true, which is also unpleasant 01:52:02 But understandable 01:52:19 It isn't something listed in the way of the door that is, for unknown reasons, ethereal 01:52:42 My first thought when I tried to pick up a corpse (but failed) was, "Why can I pick up anything but the corpse of this rat" 01:52:56 It's confusing 01:53:03 well the corpse-blocking situation isn't idea, but moving corpses won't be the solution 01:53:12 possibly destorying it like |amethyst said, I guess 01:53:28 You could displace equipment on either side of the door, I guess 01:53:31 s/idea/ideal/ 01:53:41 yes, that was the first solution I mentioned 01:53:46 Yes, I noticed 01:53:51 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:54:16 I am just running through it and kind of sidling towards the idea of 'Bring back the old ways!' without explicitly saying it, because obviously there's a reason why it was removed 01:54:16 but it maybe has some technical issues, and not all of us really like door closing mechanics 01:54:33 I like the idea of not having to plot out which doors I open 01:54:41 In advance 01:55:14 <|amethyst> I don't think door closing removal is likely to happen 01:55:16 well corpse/skeleton management was pretty bad, even if you happened to love moving them for sake of doors 01:55:20 Also not having situations where I might be tempted to shoot a kobold in the back with a wand of draining because he's about to open a door with a hydra behind it 01:55:23 <|amethyst> since slowing down door closing was reverted 01:55:57 Well, I accept anything that does not require me to do something that makes no sense well in advance to stop myself from dying, in the least nasty way possible 01:56:03 well it was, true, but I'm not sure if that's more about the aut/turn situation 01:56:47 syraine: yes, which is why we'd want to change the situation wrt corpses in doors, but I'm saying that the fix won't be "let players move corpses again" 01:56:59 Yeah, I already heard that and responded to it 01:57:12 I am not irrational 01:57:25 I just don't want to die to centaurs because of rats 01:57:25 good thing I didn't say you were! 01:57:30 why not just let doors close on corpses 01:57:37 they're not items anymore 01:57:39 Amazing! 01:57:41 ontoclasm: because closed doors are solid features 01:58:01 and solid features with items in them kind of breaks crawl 01:58:07 that's the short answer 01:58:10 Gammafunk, they can't be picked up, they're not items 01:58:12 <|amethyst> well, it looks funny anyway 01:58:29 syraine: they're items as far as crawl thinks of them 01:58:37 Gammafunk, since they can't be picked up, how about making them not items 01:58:38 and they are indeed items, for they do have item properties 01:58:43 <|amethyst> syraine: and they don't have knobs, so they're not really doors 01:58:54 |amethyst, good 01:59:14 <|amethyst> I guess we could turn corpses into creatures instead 01:59:23 <|amethyst> like zombies but they don't move 01:59:25 heh 01:59:31 can you close doors over creatures? 01:59:37 I guess we did have rock worms! 01:59:39 Air elemental 01:59:43 And rock worm 01:59:56 I think they both have the ability to overlap things 02:00:02 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:00:15 I can imagine some amusing bugs would come from corpses as monsters 02:00:48 <|amethyst> I don't think air elementals can enter solid features, but they can be on the same square as the player 02:01:00 <|amethyst> like other submerged creatures 02:01:14 but yeah we discussed this previously, and |amethyst concluded that trying to all crawl items in solid features is a bad idea; perhaps some hack to allow them as a monster or an outright feature could work, but that's not a simple solution 02:01:44 <|amethyst> monster wouldn't work because then a monster can't step on a corpse 02:01:46 s/to all/to allow/ 02:01:53 <|amethyst> feature wouldn't work because then you wouldn't have a door anymore 02:01:58 god 02:02:07 |amethyst: are corpse-door feature! 02:02:07 <|amethyst> not to mention, how are you going to track their rotting? 02:02:11 s/are/a/ 02:02:22 Give them timers when they die 02:02:26 <|amethyst> would have to have separate code for corpses as opposed to chunks and blood 02:02:29 At the end of the timer, delete them 02:02:40 Move the timer to the chunk if you butcher a corpse 02:02:40 <|amethyst> syraine: where is the timer stored? 02:02:46 <|amethyst> if there is no item 02:02:57 It's a creature, right? 02:03:03 no 02:03:15 alternate alternate option: closing a door on a corpse destroys the corpse 02:03:28 'where did that ice dragon corpse go' 02:03:35 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: Vault Warden, destroyer of food 02:03:43 Well, assuming that corpses are creatures, you can treat them as summoned creatures with timers 02:03:43 I kind of just like not dropping any items in doorways if we want to keep allowing door closing 02:03:51 "the corpse explodes in a fountain of gore!" 02:03:56 yeah you guys say those like it makes my suggestion less cool instead of more 02:04:08 Ah, disintegrate corpses on those squares 02:04:13 the ice dragon hide flies into the air! 02:04:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: spilling the items onto adjacent squares? 02:04:16 ...wait 02:04:19 |amethyst: yeah basically 02:04:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I'd rather do that when you close the door 02:04:25 |amethyst: like what vault wardens do? 02:04:26 can you drop arrows in doorways to prevent wardens closing them 02:04:39 |amethyst: yeah I guess that'd be fine 02:04:54 no, wardens move the stuff out of the door 02:05:30 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 02:05:32 <|amethyst> probably not corpses? 02:06:01 Solution: neutral wardens 02:06:04 Call them 'bellboys' 02:06:11 They just close doors on corpses, displacing them 02:06:15 <|amethyst> ah, no 02:06:21 <|amethyst> corpses do get displaced 02:06:39 yeah I'd figured that'd be the same as any other item for them 02:07:06 <|amethyst> I was thinking trapping nets, but of course they can't close a door on a trapping net because there's an actor there 02:07:21 I guess that kind of introduces some opportunities for the player to move corpses favorably 02:07:55 Summon Doors 02:07:59 <|amethyst> I don't think moving corpses horizontally is a problem 02:08:06 but doesn't seem too bad, allowing closing the door to move it, I just hope the algorithm for choosing the destination is ok... 02:08:08 <|amethyst> the problem is carting them across levels 02:08:16 <|amethyst> because zombies don't take stairs 02:08:24 Yes, that was always fun as an Ogre Necromancer 02:08:40 |amethyst: well, corpse rot, but yeah this is very minor 02:08:42 Pick up three elephant corpses, drop them downstairs, repeat for the entire late-D elephant vault 02:08:45 -reminisce- 02:09:06 Solution: permit degenerate play forever 02:09:18 -!- chequers__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:21 corpse rot, kiku corpse praying, god knows what else 02:09:53 Does this mean that you will now have to drag the elephants downstairs one by one, enslave them then tell them to wander 02:10:04 <|amethyst> not sure how it affects kiku corpse prayer significantly 02:10:27 heh, I don't think it truly affects either significantly, was more just imagining scenarious 02:10:42 <|amethyst> I guess if your square is the only one adjacent to the door 02:11:37 I'm imagining some situation with a door vault with a corpse on some open door surrounded by doors 02:11:38 would it just always put the items on the direct opposide side of the door? 02:11:55 Please make it random 02:12:02 <|amethyst> presumably you'd find a safe square 02:12:12 <|amethyst> rather than push things into lava etc 02:12:26 I don't want whatever potential application there is for moving the sum contents of a square to another, predefined and specific square 02:14:05 making it random doesn't really solve that problem 02:14:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:14:53 It removes the specificity 02:15:44 I can't imagine what one would do with it, but if you can move any number of items simultaneously to a different square, I'm sure there's some potential use 02:15:56 Give an orc warlord 1,000 stones perhaps 02:15:58 yes, which is a problem even if it's random 02:16:09 Well, you can't directly drop it onto him, at least 02:16:49 you also can't give him items like that at all 02:17:04 since allies don't pick up items any more 02:17:53 would it work to just allow doors to be closed over items, and have the items stay under the door? 02:17:55 Enemies 02:18:01 Minmay, no 02:18:06 Because doors are solid features 02:18:11 And you can't have items in solid features 02:18:12 i mean its an old-ass dungeon, theres probably a huge gap between the door and the ground 02:18:21 It's more coding than sense-based 02:18:26 big enough to fit a titan corpse under im sure 02:18:27 enemies also don't pick up items that the player has seen 02:18:40 Enemies pick up stones 02:18:43 100% 02:18:58 They will do it right in front of you and start hurling them at your face 02:19:04 <|amethyst> ? 02:19:33 Er, enemies will pick up projectiles? And throw them at you 02:19:38 <|amethyst> what version? 02:19:43 Oh, has this changed? 02:19:51 -!- mauris- has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:19:51 I was playing 0.16 02:19:56 <|amethyst> oh 02:19:57 if a monster drops an item and it gets buried immediately i think another monster can pick it up even in your sight 02:20:03 <|amethyst> I guess that's probably the definition of "seen" then 02:20:17 heh, yeah that'd be one way 02:20:23 <|amethyst> something only counts as "seen" if you have stepped on its stack, or it is on the top of the stack 02:20:29 <|amethyst> i.e. if you have seen it 02:20:44 <|amethyst> but there may be other issues related to monsters dropping things? 02:21:06 <|amethyst> I would have expected seen items in monster inventory to also be marked as seen 02:21:09 I just know that you can effectively neutralize things that could 100% kill you by giving them a huge stack of stones and then zapping them to death 02:21:11 by that definition, an item in the situation i described would indeed not be seen 02:21:55 In fact, they will sometimes use them in lieu of casting spells 02:22:16 <|amethyst> and you did this in 0.16? 02:22:16 imo the solution to this is to not let monsters pick up items at all 02:22:19 it should be that this can only happen if the stones have not been "seen" (in terms of the pile) by the player 02:22:21 <|amethyst> dropping the stones yourself 02:22:25 <|amethyst> ? 02:22:36 <|amethyst> or knowing the stones were there, even 02:22:59 if maurice steals an item and he dies and it ends up under his corpse, does it still count as having been seen 02:23:11 er, not his corpse, his cloak 02:23:30 <|amethyst> minmay: if he stole it from you, then it should 02:23:49 I actually killed a mundane orc, which died, causing an orc knight (with a glaive of flaming) to pick them up and hurl them at me lazily until it died 02:23:55 man, can maurice steal from friendlies? 02:23:57 secret tech 02:24:00 The orc had the stones 02:24:02 <|amethyst> ah 02:24:09 <|amethyst> yeah, so it's the situation minmay describes 02:24:29 Stable (0.16) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-b1-49-gc2c1aff 02:24:33 <|amethyst> I think it's a bug, because if you saw the mundane orc carrying the stones, they should be "seen" 02:25:05 I infer that the orc had the stones because there were no stones on the square it died on, and the orc knight picked up the stones 02:26:37 Not to be pedantic, of course, just wanted to be exact about it. I don't remember seeing the orc with the stones 02:27:37 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:28:26 <|amethyst> ah 02:28:29 |amethyst: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12499 02:29:48 <|amethyst> hm 02:30:16 <|amethyst> it's *supposed* to be marked as seen as long as it's in a visible slot (so not potion, scroll, or gold) 02:30:21 <|amethyst> but 02:30:36 <|amethyst> there may be a bug about when mark_mon_equipment_seen is called 02:30:55 well, I'm not sure about this either 02:31:30 <|amethyst> hm 02:31:58 <|amethyst> in a situation where a carried monster item not in one of those three slots would not count as "seen", ash would also have not IDed the equipment 02:32:32 <|amethyst> and weapon brand wouldn't be identified either 02:33:01 <|amethyst> !source mark_mon_equipment_seen 02:33:02 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/view.cc;hb=HEAD#l441 02:33:18 i'm wrong then 02:33:21 <|amethyst> well 02:33:33 however, I do think it's dumb that the only time a monster can pick up an item while in your LOS is if the item is covered by another item 02:33:37 <|amethyst> the situation syraine describes seems to indicate that you're right 02:35:46 If you really wanted to give them to someone you would just kill a mook on top of the pile, right 02:35:49