00:00:16 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:31 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4115-ga5ed934 (34) 00:08:38 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:48 . 00:12:50 .. 00:13:13 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 00:13:17 ... 00:15:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4115-ga5ed934 (34) 00:17:24 .v 00:24:15 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:32:13 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:46:15 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 00:52:54 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4115-ga5ed934 00:53:49 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:57:40 !killratio the_serpent_of_hell * newserpent place=geh 00:57:42 the_serpent_of_hell wins 4.255% of battles against * (newserpent place=geh). 00:57:43 !killratio the_serpent_of_hell * newserpent place=dis 00:57:45 the_serpent_of_hell wins 4.700% of battles against * (newserpent place=dis). 00:57:49 !killratio the_serpent_of_hell * newserpent place~~coc|nor 00:57:52 the_serpent_of_hell wins 4.564% of battles against * (newserpent place~~coc|nor). 00:57:53 !killratio the_serpent_of_hell * newserpent place=tar 00:57:55 the_serpent_of_hell wins 2.072% of battles against * (newserpent place=tar). 00:57:57 ): 01:00:58 maybe AF_PARALYSE instead of AF_DRAIN_XP? 01:01:03 that could be fun 01:01:36 although that's probably specifically paralysis via poison, which rpois would block 01:01:45 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:08 AF_ROT could also be more interesting 01:02:42 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:05:24 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:56 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07:08 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:45 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09:31 could also do ghostly fireball breath, but not sure how much that would take away from its distinctiveness elsewhere 01:09:47 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:57 (this is all brainstorming for post-0.16, obviously) 01:17:45 -!- schisto is now known as schistosoma 01:18:34 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:12 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 01:21:14 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:22:08 -!- Rarn has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:32:33 -!- ark is now known as Guest51655 01:32:35 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 01:33:51 -!- Guest51655 has quit [Client Quit] 01:33:55 -!- ark_ has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:48 !tell gammafunk I think in Berder we have finally found an infinite source of tavernous tavern posts 01:38:48 minmay: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 01:43:43 I know that one day I'll be in a terrible accident, and I'll wake up momentarily in the operating room. Just as I'm about to pass out again before going under the knife, the surgeon hovering over me will whisper "Hey gammafunk! It's me, Berder. Don't worry, I know what I'm doing!", and sleep will take me again. 01:43:44 gammafunk: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:45:43 what if it were duvessa instead 01:46:10 it would be a rapier instead of a knife i guess 01:46:46 you devs probably should have renamed it to something better for cutting 01:48:21 duvessa, berserk, with a scalpel 01:48:58 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:49:55 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:50:05 geekosaur: 50% faster, and an accuracy boost from the str too, sounds good to me 01:50:47 personally i think the worst tavern user to get surgery from wouldn't be berder, but XTAHUA 01:51:18 gammafunk: haha "Having slower and less damaging starting weapon type lowers your early-game survival." "Prove it." 01:53:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:23 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:07:05 -!- calebae has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:16:17 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 02:18:09 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:00 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4115-ga5ed934 (34) 02:32:07 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 02:50:37 -!- mauris- has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:57:59 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:58:37 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:02:20 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:09:34 !tell Lasty autopickup is still trying to pick up duplicate lamps of fire etc, but only when they are inert 03:09:35 minmay: OK, I'll let lasty know. 03:15:30 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:16:31 !messages 03:16:31 No messages for minmay. 03:17:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:18:15 -!- WalrusKing_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:20:51 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 03:24:27 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:26:40 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:39:37 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:34 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:53:11 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:32 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:11:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:55 -!- frenoss has quit [Client Quit] 04:19:00 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Client Quit] 04:21:23 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Client Quit] 04:28:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:49 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:40:40 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:42:04 -!- AltReality has quit [Quit: Shame on us, doomed from the start, May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts. Shame on us, for what we've done, and all we ever were, just zeros and ones.] 04:46:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:06 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:03:22 -!- motorbit has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:04:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:32 -!- zero_one has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:26 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:20 Sequell sure is slow lately. 05:21:03 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:35 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 05:21:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:45 -!- TAS_2012v has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:59 -!- mauris has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:07 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:29 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:46:42 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:51:41 -!- Monkaria has quit [Client Quit] 05:53:09 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55:28 -!- abixa has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:56:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:52 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:59:07 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 06:01:15 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:14:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:31 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:28:50 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:28 -!- hy-on-github has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:36:35 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:15 -!- mngrif has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 06:49:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:50 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:54:25 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:54:44 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:05:49 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:06:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:24 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:15:25 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:17:59 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:01 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:09 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:56 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:36 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:09 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:34 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:52:52 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:24 -!- crawl849 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:54:28 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:20 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:06:22 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:16:55 -!- debo has quit [Quit: orb spiders :(] 08:18:38 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:22:37 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:24:35 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:14 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:29:18 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:29 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:52 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:32:12 barkface (L14 HECj) (Lair:7) 08:33:56 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:36:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:28 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:55 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:47 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:00:54 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:20 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:03:08 -!- mrwooster has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:21 -!- johnf_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:55 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: "What happens if you die in reality?" "You die, stupid. That's why it's called reality."] 09:12:20 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:17:13 -!- KamiKatze has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:19:01 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:27:58 -!- Sovek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:37:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:40:34 -!- tgcid9999 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:41:00 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:19 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:12 -!- caleba has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:50 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 10:30:00 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:32:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:19 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:07 -!- Sovek_ is now known as Sovek 10:38:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:38:19 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:04 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: I used to think I was indecisive, but now I'm not too sure.] 10:43:37 -!- Sovek_ is now known as Sovek 10:44:13 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:51:32 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:05 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:01:32 -!- ark__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:37 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:04:52 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4115-ga5ed934 (34) 11:18:21 Kenreth (L27 DrAr) ASSERT(in_non_diamond_int(r.start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 217 failed. (Zig:14) 11:20:31 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:38 -!- Guest67574 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:21:11 -!- debo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:30:26 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:36:33 -!- coffee` has quit [Quit: coffee`] 11:38:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:17 -!- Guest67574 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:41 -!- Guest67574 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 11:49:16 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 11:54:24 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:28 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:15 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:24 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:30 how come torpor snails spawn in depths? 12:23:50 presumably because they're a force multiplier 12:24:04 also, thanks for the heads-up on the lamp of fire thing 12:24:05 wtf is a "force multiplier" 12:24:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_multiplication 12:24:42 as far as I can tell it's another trivial monster, like spawning a worm in depths 12:24:54 I guess depths still has death yaks too... 12:24:56 yeah, unless it's in a group behind some other stuff 12:25:07 There's a lot of weak stuff in depths :( 12:25:13 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:24 dire elephants too 12:25:26 I really don't see how a torpor snail in depths can be consequential unless you don't realize it's on the screen 12:25:38 also merfolk/nagas 12:26:09 minmay: well, obviously it can slow you can thereby make other things more dangerous, but you know that. Are you saying that it's trivially easy to get it back off-screen? 12:26:27 Lasty: yes, or to kill it 12:26:44 Lasty: I mean this is true in lair too but it's a lot more blatant when you're spawning a lair monster in depths... 12:26:48 unfortunately, I find it's almost always trivial to get torpor snails off screen 12:26:51 yeah 12:26:55 minmay: sure is a good thing nagas don't spawn in depths 12:27:25 I suppose by depths lots of characters do have some way to deal with a monster behind other monsters . . . but many don't as well 12:27:46 what version of crawl are you playing where characters can't move? 12:27:58 I already admitted it's easy to get them off screen :p 12:28:23 wheals: salamanders do and those are the same thing 12:29:15 if you mean in lava, but i hoped that you have some shred of intellectual honesty 12:29:23 I mean in lava 12:29:26 what's so different about lava? 12:31:34 -!- grit has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:31:37 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 12:32:24 anyway, I don't think it's good to deliberately add lair monsters to depths 12:33:51 -!- cykeltillsalu has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:21 or other weak monsters 12:34:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:37 if xp is a problem, I think just generating nothing in their place would be a better option 12:34:48 but welcome arguments to the contrary 12:34:52 I don't think anyone feels that there need to be more easy XP 12:34:56 *any dev 12:35:32 I agree that more dangerous stuff and less undangerous stuff in Depths is good. I made a start on that. 12:35:33 hah, players dont count, that goes without saying. fuck players, i hate those 12:36:07 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:38:28 things that really, really don't make sense in depths imo: the entire lava spawn list, boggart, slime creature, manticore, torpor snail, minotaur, dire elephant, emperor scorpion, death yak, catoblepas 12:39:14 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:39:35 I disagree with boggart and probably torpor snail. I'm not sure about the lava spawn list and emperor scorpions. 12:39:52 boggart (06g) | Spd: 12 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-26 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 117 | Sp: shadow creatures, invisibility, blink | Sz: little | Int: normal. 12:39:52 %??boggart 12:39:56 HP: 13-26 12:40:01 do you really think this thing can do anything in depths 12:40:30 Often they die fast. Sometimes they make things unpleasant faster than you can kill them 12:40:49 I don't agree 12:40:54 Unless you have airstrike or other smite-targeted stuff, of course. 12:41:13 or any wand or other ranged attack at all...HP: 13-26 12:41:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:41:51 they generally come in packs of four, and there's a reasonable chance that after a single turn in LOS (time to kill one with a wand) the others have spawned enough stuff that you can't beam through 12:42:06 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:32 iirc torpor snails in depths were a wheals suggestion 12:43:11 the idea was, yeah, force multiplier. it was an experiment. if it didn't work out, they can be pretty straightforwardly removed; I don't think there needs to be anything like 'spawning nothing in thier place' to preserve the careful xp balance or w/e 12:43:15 what benefit do you see in depths emperor scorpions? they're harmless and it's weird seeing them out of spider 12:43:40 since there certainly wasn't any care when I added them 12:43:57 I think I've been vaguely threatened by a berserked emperor scorpion in depths once, maybe 12:44:36 -!- ribbit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:44:41 They're harmless the way most speed 10 brutes are, but to the extent that any speed 10 melee stuff can be dangerous, emperor scorpions can be dangerous in Lair. They have pretty high AC. 12:44:58 sure, emperor scorpions are fine by lair standards 12:45:00 not depths standards... 12:45:05 If we were going to remove all speed 10 melee things from depths, I'd be fine w/ removing them too 12:45:30 er, I meant Depths, not Lair -- typo 12:45:37 good typo 12:45:39 you complained about dire elephants before I did...emperor scorpions are about the same 12:45:46 dire elephant (02Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 95-132 | AC/EV: 13/2 | Dam: 4007(trample), 15 | Res: 06magic(100), 12drown | XP: 1243 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 12:45:46 %?? dire elephant 12:45:51 unknown monster: "emperor scoprion" 12:45:51 %?? emperor scoprion 12:45:56 emperor scorpion (15s) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 104-134 | AC/EV: 20/12 | Dam: 3008(poison:28-56), 1509(claw), 1509(claw) | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1626 | Sz: Giant | Int: insect. 12:45:56 %?? emperor scorpion 12:45:59 they feel a little redundant with other depths monsters, ya 12:46:14 and depths will still have speed 10 melee junk: 12:46:16 emperor scorpions are much harder to kill 12:46:16 tentacled monstrosity (03X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 104-148 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(160), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2973 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:46:16 %??tentacled monstrosity 12:47:04 need to buff constriction again........ 12:47:40 I don't really see how you can make constriction meaningful if it stays a melee ability 12:48:07 even original constriction was either "nothing" or "you cannot melee this monster" 12:49:20 Anaconda constriction matters, and sometimes other constriction matters for stairs. 12:49:41 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:49:41 anaconda constriction "matters" in that it slightly increases their effective HP and damage, but it doesn't really do anything else... 12:49:46 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:04 um 12:50:06 effective hp? 12:50:13 so what would you like constriction to do 12:50:26 PleasingFungus: you will use a few actions breaking constriction sometimes 12:50:30 wheals: be ranged 12:50:53 lasso snakes... 12:50:57 hold on hold on 12:50:58 you mean, throwing nets? 12:51:06 mind you, I've been saying this since constricton was introduced, and don't have any new arguments 12:51:19 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/D%26DRoper.JPG 12:51:27 wheals: yes, I prefer throwing nets by a lot, but if constriction is going to exist I would rather have it be redundant with nets than do nothing like it currently does 12:51:28 minmay: constriction makes anacondas much more expensive to escape than black mambas if they've already gotten into melee range 12:51:31 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:52:04 Lasty: err, explain? both are the same speed... 12:53:00 moving away from a black mamba is predictable -- you know you'll take one attack for every two tiles you move. With an anaconda, you often end up taking significantly more attacks per tile you want to move away. 12:53:23 Lasty: right, that's why I said "slightly increases their effective HP and damage" 12:53:51 the platonic ideal of crawl, in which everyone fights exactly one monster at a time on a perfectly flat map... 12:53:56 Lasty: why do you even bother 12:54:00 minmay: right, and I understand what you meant by that. The point I'm making is that in the case where you actually want to move away from it rather than fight it, it's much more punishing 12:54:02 it's a beautiful dream. I can see it now 12:54:17 not "slightly" more 12:54:23 Lasty: what the fuck? no it's not, it's less punishing, the anaconda gets fewer attacks 12:54:34 minmay: how do you figure that? 12:54:38 Lasty: moving away from an anaconda was much more punishing before they got constriction 12:54:44 Lasty: because they weren't stunned for half their actions 12:54:46 constriction is p easy to break these days, and there's something about monsters losing energy when their constriciton is broken 12:55:02 Breaking constriction stuns them? For how long? 12:55:25 I don't know about anaconda in particular but it is still certainly possible to fail to break constricting 2-3 times in a row 12:55:31 -!- surr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:55:39 which can be pretty dangerous 12:55:44 sure. rare, tho 12:55:55 2 in a row happens reasonably often to e 12:55:56 me 12:56:16 yeah, 2 in a row doesn't seem that rare 12:56:53 idk 12:57:00 maybe I don't run away from constrictors that much; I'll cede the point 12:57:02 that said, I think constriction works poorly on anaconda and tmons... I like it on nagas though 12:57:12 especially reaching nagas 12:57:41 I don't like it on slow monsters either but I suppose that is more me not liking slow monsters 12:57:52 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:15 but anyway, I just wanted to get emperor scorpions out of depths 12:58:56 I would remove hill giants from depths first if they are still there (I forget) 12:59:02 minotaur (04H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 59-88 | AC/EV: 5/7 04(headbutt: d20-1) | Dam: 35, 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 1098 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 12:59:02 %??minotaur 12:59:03 yes, they are, and should be removed 12:59:06 those as well 12:59:07 imho remove these guys from depths 12:59:15 wow, yeah, hill giants should definitely go from depths 12:59:25 minotaurs too 12:59:40 Lasty: do you hear someone retired speaking? I thought I did but maybe it's an echo.... 12:59:43 I don't love minotaurs in depths either, yes, though equipment makes them at least a little more interesting 12:59:49 depths hill giant bothers me less than depths emperor scorpion or depths dire elephant or depths death yak tbh 12:59:53 rod pinatas 13:00:03 gammafunk: I don't get it 13:00:03 oh yes depths death yak is really silly IMO 13:00:08 depthsyak 13:00:11 all of those bother me a lot more than depths emperor scorpion 13:00:22 gammafunk: oh, now I get it 13:00:33 Lasty: yeah it wasn't a great joke was it 13:00:54 I just forgot that PF was "retired" 13:00:54 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:01:16 minmay: emperor scorpion at least has somewhat unusual defenses 13:01:21 Death yak -> depths yak. Problem solved. :p 13:01:22 do you see these commits. do you see all the commits I'm making right now 13:01:23 yeah hill giants are still around 13:01:25 Lasty: easy to forget 13:01:33 no! because I'm retired 13:01:50 PleasingFungus: retired PleasingFungus commit count: 20/day down from 40/day 13:01:56 elliptic: that's why I was going to bat for it 13:02:04 i think the chaff elves are worse than any of the other monsters mentioned really 13:02:12 knights + mages 13:02:20 priests, probably summoners too 13:02:33 non-top-tier elves certainly don't belong in depths 13:02:37 wheals: those are in depths without being in a band with a more dangerous elf? 13:02:42 yes 13:02:45 I don't mind those elves as part of bands 13:02:46 yes 13:02:48 okay 13:02:48 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:51 300 total weight 13:02:58 chelves (chaff elves, not to be confused with chei elves) 13:03:03 !source pop_depths 13:03:04 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-pick-data.h;hb=HEAD#l1047 13:03:13 but then how will i dive depths for bucklers? 13:03:14 I'd prefer to have all-top-tier elf bands: 2x annihilator, death mage, demonologist 13:03:19 plain vampires 13:03:20 important question: do we want depths to be more dangerous 13:03:21 we should shelve the depths chelves 13:03:27 or just emptier (less chaffy) 13:03:36 minmay: easy: reavers still exist 13:03:56 oh that reminds me 13:04:04 PleasingFungus: IMO, yes, Depths should be more dangerous. Right now only certain vaults are dangerous. 13:04:04 it looks like tengu warriors/conjurers can spawn in depths without reavers? 13:04:07 also maybe some depths spriggans have bucklers? I forget 13:04:18 they do 13:04:32 but I'm not really ever happy to encounter a depths spriggan 13:04:34 on this note I think some of the encompass vaults we have are a bit too thematic wrt placing enemies that are not very depths-appropriate 13:04:47 Lasty: I'm not sure that's at all true... 13:05:00 PleasingFungus: :shrug: that's my impression at any rate 13:05:13 !lg * current trunk depths 13:05:14 1183. superterranean the Cloud Mage (L24 TeCj of Vehumet), mangled by a bone dragon on Depths:2 (hangedman_opposites_gauntlet) on 2015-03-01 17:43:55, with 456018 points after 72652 turns and 6:53:47. 13:05:22 ancient liches with summon shrike 13:05:23 we could just make said encompass vaults a bit less common, since some have asked for this, but I'm not sure that's the best thing 13:05:24 !shrikekills 13:05:25 79. agentgt the Severer (L19 FoCK of Makhleb), annihilated by a caustic shrike on Depths:4 (grunt_runaround) on 2015-02-28 03:53:11, with 213073 points after 21343 turns and 2:31:14. 13:05:34 !lg npdevteam depths s=name 13:05:34 ancient liches with summon zephyr hound 13:05:34 No games for npdevteam (depths). 13:05:40 !lg devteamnp depths s=name 13:05:42 50 games for devteamnp (depths): 15x wheals, 7x SGrunt, 5x Lasty, 5x bh, 3x doy, 2x MarvinPA, 2x dpeg, 2x neil, 2x elliptic, 2x PleasingFungus, 2x gammafunk, 78291, Keskitalo, rob 13:05:57 Basil: is a zephyr hound like a raiju 13:06:01 (summon gravity hounds) 13:06:03 !lg devteamnp depths !boring s=name 13:06:04 48 games for devteamnp (depths !boring): 15x wheals, 7x SGrunt, 5x bh, 5x Lasty, 3x doy, 2x dpeg, 2x elliptic, 2x MarvinPA, 2x PleasingFungus, 2x neil, 78291, Keskitalo, rob 13:06:07 thought so 13:06:14 huh, rob 13:06:20 !lg rob depths x=src 13:06:21 1. [src=cdo] rob the Summoner (L16 CeSu of Ashenzari), demolished by a deep troll on Depths:1 on 2014-04-17 09:10:41, with 153372 points after 71511 turns and 8:51:41. 13:06:24 !lm * current trunk depths s=noun 13:06:26 43569 milestones for * (current trunk depths): 14580x Depths, 4858x Zot, 4463x entered the Abyss!, 2351x Hell, 1812x the Enchantress, 1339x Sojobo, 1177x Margery, 941x Boris, 879x Saint Roka, 870x Jorgrun, 842x Frederick, 805x Jory, 743x Mara, 738x Xtahua, 695x Mennas, 639x Wiglaf, 625x Asterion, 620x Norris, 578x Nikola, 533x Agnes, 438x Aizul, 144x Okawaru, 125x the Shining One, 111x Maud, 97x h... 13:06:28 summon hounds of tindalos? 13:06:30 ah, 0.14 t 13:06:35 dpeg said he came out and played a bit in the last tourney 13:06:36 !lm * current trunk depths noun=depths 13:06:38 14580. [2015-03-01 18:59:55] casual the Slayer (L21 FeBe of Trog) entered the Depths on turn 77473. (D:15) 13:06:42 oh maybe one before last 13:06:43 !lg lasty depths s=cv 13:06:44 5 games for lasty (depths): 3x 0.16-a, 2x 0.15-a 13:06:46 pfff, casuals 13:06:56 wheals: so there's this game called angband 13:07:02 "game" 13:07:10 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:07:17 I just killed jorgrun twice and he spent all 7 of his actions zapping a wand of magic darts 13:07:22 this seems like something that shouldn't happen 13:07:25 isn't it more of a grinding simulator 13:07:30 does anyone have any opinions on frequency of depths encompass vaults? 13:07:32 or if you prefer halls of mist 13:07:33 minmay: I agree, wands of magic darts should be removed 13:07:34 wheals: so is crawl 13:07:37 -!- cykeltillsalu has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 13:07:42 PleasingFungus: yes, I agree with that as well 13:07:42 e.g. too frequent or just fine the way they are? 13:07:48 gammafunk: way too high IMO 13:07:52 but yeah it's weird how later monsters are neutered by getting wands 13:07:55 yeah I know you think that :) 13:07:56 good point, angband is the real thing 13:08:19 where hounds come in all colours of the rainbow 13:08:28 gammafunk: excuse me for not wanting to play the same level 20 times 13:08:28 (whereas ofc ijyb is the Killer with Wands) 13:08:35 red, blue, green, time 13:08:42 !lm * current trunk depths noun=depths / won 13:08:47 7466/14581 milestones for * (current trunk depths noun=depths): N=7466/14581 (51.20%) 13:08:59 !lm * current trunk br.enter=depths / won 13:09:00 3726/8384 milestones for * (current trunk br.enter=depths): N=3726/8384 (44.44%) 13:09:04 I think having some weaker monsters in depths is fine, for the record... they don't all need to be reavers and dragons and such 13:09:05 they just should be more interesting weaker monsters than hill giants and death yaks 13:09:08 ah, ty for better query 13:09:17 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 13:09:29 well I'm not sure what an ideal target is for "depths encompass" in terms of probability per game anyhow 13:09:38 nor if it makes much sense to think that way 13:09:40 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:46 elliptic: I don't like pulling the trivial monsters from lair/lair branches/etc though, it makes them even less distinct 13:09:59 minmay: yeah 13:10:01 _map_wand_to_mspell 13:10:06 this function sounds promising 13:10:12 -!- tstbtto has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:10:13 !source _map_wand_to_mspell 13:10:13 minmay: or even from early D :P 13:10:13 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-act.cc;hb=HEAD#l74 13:10:15 I think using like hobgoblins and ogres instead would bother me less 13:10:19 ... 13:10:30 that ellipsis was @ sequell 13:10:42 haha it's so awful 13:11:47 stuff like (very) ugly thing bands and great orb of eyes are fine IMO, I also don't mind tengu warrior/conjurer 13:12:02 wait does that mean we had 13:12:04 three places 13:12:12 of coursew 13:12:16 well, i guess the other two were zaps 13:12:17 not spells 13:12:30 well, that code presumably dates back to monster spells not being spells 13:12:53 oh god dlb who cares if there's a logic to the ordering 13:12:58 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: witty quit message goes here] 13:13:38 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:48 I assume there was some traumatic incident 13:13:54 where someone switched things around... the wrong way... 13:17:00 minmay: what prob. what you like to see for depths encompass maps 13:17:15 * wheals can't find any code that would make a monster do anything but zap a wand 13:18:02 gammafunk: for profane halls, 0 13:18:13 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:26 !send wheals behaviour code.... 13:18:27 Sending behaviour code.... to wheals. 13:18:27 gammafunk: idk maybe like half the current chance of getting an encompass map 13:18:34 oh, there's a coinflip() to just not do it 13:18:34 gammafunk: why are you even asking me 13:19:04 I'm more interested to see what people who tend to like them less would find better 13:19:10 half current seems actually pretty good to me 13:19:16 PleasingFungus: i know right 13:19:38 and why is profane halls so bad? I've actually only gotten it and played it once 13:19:41 gammafunk: well, I'd *like* them a lot less frequent than that, but I was trying to give something that most people would approve of :P 13:20:02 gammafunk: profane halls isn't really that much worse than other vaults but it's a running joke that it is 13:20:13 I don't mind depths:5 profane halls but I don't like it earlier 13:20:21 well, I approve of blaming Grunt 13:20:29 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:34 elliptic: as in, that's the only acceptable place for it? 13:20:46 yeah, I'd personally prefer if it only placed on depths:5 13:20:47 really? depths:5 profane halls feels weird to me since it's basically making another level of zot 13:21:02 admittedly i've only ever done it back when item destruction and permacorrosion were thingsd 13:21:30 wheals: it's similar to a large zot entrance vault IMO 13:21:52 like I'm not sure it really has more dracs than some of the other vaults we have 13:22:11 elliptic: final random question, are there any depths encompass vaults that you genuinely like? 13:23:02 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-4116-g021ab23: Extend auto-pickup behavior to inert evokables (minmay) 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=021ab238cbfa 13:23:16 the problem with it before depths:5 is that the stair placement is really weird (also elves) 13:23:41 !vault profane_halls 13:23:42 it is easy to skip it and then take a < to the loot room, for instance 13:23:42 Can't find profane_halls. 13:23:49 oh I see 13:24:04 or forget to mark it and < into the center on the orb run 13:24:27 gammafunk: I actually like encompass vaults more than most people in general I think 13:24:31 yeah it's probably good to avoid stuff like that on these maps, but that seems fixable 13:25:12 can i say i love can_cut_meat() 13:25:15 ok, well trying to get some general feel for whether they're a problem. Maybe they could stand some lower weight and I can just try to fix up specific issues with some 13:25:19 mm 13:25:33 spin_cycle is neat but perhaps I'm swayed by the fancy rings 13:25:44 yeah the loot in that vault seems almost excessive 13:25:44 haha flaming weapons help you cut out of nets easier 13:25:51 hmm 13:25:59 crystal_crosses is cute 13:26:19 Btw, how close are we to 0.17? 13:26:30 (which is to say, 0.16 release) 13:26:32 I've had a number of people tell me they hate that map, I'm not a huge fan of it myself 13:26:44 according to mantis, 4 issues 13:26:44 I usually skip the box level, profane, sometimes pleasuredromes 13:26:47 but there's nothing wrong with it 13:26:52 3 of which have been around for several releases 13:26:57 do vorpal weapons still cut hydra heads more easily than others 13:27:02 gammafunk: CPM blademaster is a nice touch 13:27:14 wielding flaming and freezing 13:27:16 Basil: haha, oh man I should go read that des 13:27:18 who knows 13:27:38 gammafunk: I think the only encompass vaults that I particularly _don't_ like are radiant_caverns and elf_profane_halls 13:27:51 in both cases mainly because of the monster set 13:27:57 gammafunk: while you're at it give the flamy freezy ettin GDA 13:28:00 wheals: can_cut_meat is in my top 10 functions easily 13:28:01 though also stair placement for profane_halls as I said 13:28:09 minmay: yes they do 13:28:09 Lasty: i'd be up for branching today, we can backport the altgr fix, and |amethyst does have a patch for it there 13:28:15 though it's untested 13:28:15 ran into that when I was implementing hydra form 13:28:21 ~verismillitude~ 13:28:28 or in-jokes, something in there 13:29:12 elliptic: well maybe I can fix the stair issues now that Grunt is so busy, for the monster set issue, we could just make it U:5 only, but I should probably take a careful look before making Grunt's most famous vault have that much less frequency 13:29:42 wheals: which view are you using on mantis? 13:29:43 rip twisty_passages 13:29:53 "severity: block" 13:29:53 the monster set issue is partly just "elliptic doesn't like elves" but if there are any ideas for making the vault less like elf:3 then that would be cool IMO 13:30:09 !tell Grunt m - The Volume of Greatest Risks and Utility, the only spell in it: Discord 13:30:10 gammafunk: OK, I'll let grunt know. 13:30:47 Grunt's Incunabulum of Insanity 13:30:50 like replace some of the elves with spriggans, idk 13:31:01 i don't think that will make it more popular :P 13:31:23 or with generic depths monsters maybe! 13:31:36 yeah, but then there's the 4-hells themes 13:31:36 shrikes and wellsprings 13:31:42 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:43 those are in hell 13:31:50 gammafunk: the 4-hells thing is fine IMO (if dangerous) 13:31:59 oh, maybe the elves are only in the center? 13:32:06 in which case yeah that's an easy solution 13:32:11 098 vault 13:32:25 Zero! Nine! Eight! 13:33:31 oh crap, now I get that comment 13:34:09 ??reserved clan names[vaults 13:34:10 reserved_clan_names[2/12]: 098 vaults [gammafunk] 13:34:23 r??reserved clan names 13:34:24 reserved_clan_names[3/12]: Tautological Constants [gammafunk] 13:34:26 why did you reserve it if you didn't get the comment :P 13:34:27 r??reserved clan names 13:34:27 reserved_clan_names[3/12]: Tautological Constants [gammafunk] 13:34:33 hmm 13:34:45 gammafunk: so how many of those are yours 13:34:53 all the good ones basically 13:35:36 all of the good vaults too I suspect 13:35:54 you'll love moon base, don't worry 13:36:07 will you be able to jump there 13:36:29 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:38 John Madden! John Madden! John Madden! 13:36:43 will there be sharks 13:40:08 will there be sharks. will there be sharks! 13:40:10 what kind of question is that... 13:41:59 moon sharks 13:42:11 moon shark leather armour 13:44:47 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:49 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:20 unknown monster: "reserved clan names" 13:47:20 <|amethyst> %??reserved clan names 13:47:23 <|amethyst> ??reserved clan names 13:47:24 reserved clan names[1/12]: HuAr_you_HuHu_HuHu [|amethyst] 13:48:04 oh 13:48:06 right 13:48:07 we should announce a release 13:48:11 I keep forgetting 13:48:37 elliptic: why might jiyva think my op needs str 13:48:39 yup 13:48:44 and a tourney too 13:49:01 well 13:49:04 tourney presumably a week after release 13:49:05 oh hm, april fool's 13:49:23