00:02:39 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4005-g3d13fd6 (34) 00:12:49 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:01 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:17:40 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:09 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:22:43 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:34 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:39 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:54 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:39:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:51 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:56:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:58:20 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:11:32 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:00 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:18:05 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:19 -!- rgould has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:03 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:21:32 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:23:56 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:28:25 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:37 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:41 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:25 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:34:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:35:28 -!- ClawlessVictory has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:40:08 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 01:40:39 !learn set gammafunk[5] SpWr^Ash 01:40:39 gammafunk[5/12]: SpWr^Ash 01:42:02 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:45:44 -!- rockit has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:45:56 -!- rockit_ is now known as rockit 01:47:00 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 01:48:22 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:49:57 -!- MgDark has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:13 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:53:37 -!- darwin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:01:09 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:24 -!- rockit has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 33.1/20141113113219]] 02:07:30 I made/maintain a Crawl SlackBuild (so people can easily install Crawl in Slackware)... and I just updated it to compile graphical Crawl, but I am having some trouble running that on my system. I have two monitors, and when I run crawl (graphical version) in the terminal, it runs on a size that takes up more than one monitor, i.e. all of one and part of the other, with some of the window missing on one... why can I not resize it? 02:08:28 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:13:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:16:01 -!- doy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:15 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 02:18:17 -!- droogie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:21:37 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4005-g3d13fd6 (34) 02:25:31 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:56 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:27:45 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:28:07 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:02 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 02:33:59 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:34:30 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:39:25 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:41:53 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:45 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:21 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:29 darwin: there should be init options for that 02:57:42 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:57:51 I typed 'crawl --help' and did not see any 02:59:23 as in user rc / init.txt options, not commandline 03:05:41 Hmm, that is a lot of hassle just to make the game run only on the monitor of the xterm that starts it, which one would expect a serious program to do anyway. I think I will not be playing the graphical version, and will just get someone with one monitor, to test it 03:08:44 ok 03:10:04 thanks for explaining. Also, I am wondering, since the SlackBuild makes the graphical version, is there any icon or, such as for KDE (and maybe other desktop environments) a .desktop file or settings for it, like short game description, you would like me to use? 03:10:41 -!- pentax has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:11:07 i'm not a dev, but if it's not in the repo I'd be surprised if it exists 03:11:20 the windows build uses the cauldron icon 03:11:44 ok, where is that? 03:12:12 somewhere in the repo, not sure where 03:12:26 in the source? 03:12:30 yes 03:14:31 do you know what file format it is? 03:14:39 every image should be png 03:18:21 -!- Shados has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:19:48 -!- darwin_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:21:26 -!- _wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 03:22:10 -!- checkers_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:19 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:55 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:26:09 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 03:26:32 Is there an official short description for GUI menus (for tooltips, or listed in the menu), for example, Angband's or its variant, Tome's (for graphical version) is 'Dive into Angband and defeat Morgoth' 03:26:37 ? 03:29:41 nm; I found one from a friends build for his distribution 03:29:44 -!- darwin_ has left ##crawl-dev 03:31:41 -!- scummos| has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:41 -!- Jonatan has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:41 -!- darwin has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:41 -!- Azzkikr has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:41 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:42 -!- wh1te has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:42 -!- Moredrea1 has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:42 -!- chequers has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:42 -!- wamaral has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:42 -!- axujen has quit [*.net *.split] 03:31:43 -!- axujen_ is now known as axujen 03:34:35 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:37:00 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:37 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:13 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:44:44 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:49:09 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:50:09 -!- djanatyn has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 03:52:25 -!- markgo`` has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:53:18 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:53:29 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:11:41 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:13:47 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:26 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 04:16:31 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:19:49 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:20:47 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:26:54 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:16 -!- Guest68213 is now known as Basil 04:29:22 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:32:53 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:32:53 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:40:23 -!- UbAh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:43:06 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 04:47:06 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:36 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:28 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:51:51 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:58:29 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:00:14 -!- Jonatan_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:02:44 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:05:36 -!- checkers_ is now known as chequers 05:08:13 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:37 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:51 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:10 -!- krynn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:19:56 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:02 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:35 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:39:57 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:42:42 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 05:50:51 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 05:53:23 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:02:13 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:05:05 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:06:46 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:21 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:18:45 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:19:25 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:23:18 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:25 -!- penciltax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 06:35:11 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:05 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:47:23 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 07:02:03 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 07:02:40 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:04:52 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:11:11 -!- ttyud has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:20:41 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:25:37 -!- mauris_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:26:13 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:31:53 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:26 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:27 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:37 -!- CacoS has quit [] 07:37:22 Lasty: 07:37:27 ops 07:37:59 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:14 <|amethyst> !tell Lasty No messages for Lasty. 07:44:15 |amethyst: OK, I'll let lasty know. 07:46:35 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:51:09 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:53:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:06 -!- mikee_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:11 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:50 |amethyst: I was trying to find that centaur-with-no-arms video you sent me the other day 07:57:50 Lasty: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 07:57:54 got a link? 07:58:08 er nm 07:58:13 apparently you sent it to both accounts 07:58:52 -!- titanjones has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:00:51 <|amethyst> or you can google for "centaur battle simulation" 08:02:19 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:05:10 I tried googling "centaur no hands" and got nowhere 08:05:23 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:05:26 Just a bunch of videos about people with no hands, which is sad, not funny 08:10:48 -!- minmay has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:11:51 -!- minqmay has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:17:38 -!- mauris has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:17:42 -!- mauris_ is now known as mauris 08:18:41 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:47 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:56:40 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 08:56:45 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:02 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:01:04 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:03:09 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:30 isn't a centaur with no hands... a horse? 09:08:58 with a larger than usual "head"... 09:09:05 <|amethyst> bh: I think your understanding of horse anatomy might be a little off... 09:09:12 <|amethyst> or perhaps of centaur anatomy 09:09:36 <|amethyst> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Jvmp0INP0 09:09:39 a better question is what do centaurs eat 09:09:48 <|amethyst> less than they used to 09:09:49 adventurers :p 09:10:16 monsters must love me 09:10:20 i feed them adventurers all day 09:11:10 should have said players... still waking up) 09:11:21 <|amethyst> Dungeon masters hate this 1 simple trick to eat adventurers all day without gaining weight! 09:15:12 03greensnark02 07* 0.16-a0-4006-g78efcc4: Add -list-combos to list species, jobs & combos. 10(39 minutes ago, 5 files, 130+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=78efcc412934 09:16:46 <|amethyst> Lucretius had a good point 09:16:57 <|amethyst> when a centaur is, say, three years old... 09:17:18 <|amethyst> does that mean it has a fully-developed adult lower half with a toddler strapped to the front? 09:17:51 :-) 09:18:17 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 09:18:48 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:59 <|amethyst> I guess he phrased it a little more eloquently 09:19:24 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:33 <|amethyst> "The horse, when his three years have rolled away, / Flowers in his prime of vigour; but the boy / Not so, for oft even then he gropes in sleep / After the milky nipples of the breasts, / An infant still." (trans. W.E.Leonard) 09:21:25 haha 09:23:12 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:27:20 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:39 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:53 -!- CacoS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30:28 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4007-gb10b77c: Add playable.{cc,h} to MSVC project. 10(76 seconds ago, 2 files, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b10b77c56f7a 09:30:28 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4008-gc88e425: Add missing CRs to MSVC project. 10(41 seconds ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c88e425841ed 09:33:59 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 09:38:58 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:13 -!- spacet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:20 |amethyst: I'm interested in disabling autopickup of elemental evokers after you already have one. Is that something that's reasonable under code freeze? On the one hand it feels like something v0.16 should ship with, on the other hand it could definitely cause bugs. 09:41:36 <|amethyst> Lasty: I'd say it depends on the complexity of the implementation 09:42:42 |amethyst: fair enough. I suppose I might as well make the patch and then decide whether it goes into 0.16 09:42:56 <|amethyst> oh, staves 09:43:00 <|amethyst> that's another one 09:43:11 <|amethyst> I guess they're not on autopickup by default though 09:43:19 yeah 09:43:42 and rings under sac hand 09:44:07 sustain abilities is useless with two rings nowadays 09:44:15 so 09:44:17 er 09:44:21 (or rather the second ring is useless) 09:44:27 so's rPois and see invis 09:44:40 <|amethyst> Bloax: sustab is already listed there 09:44:58 <|amethyst> !source dat/default/autopickup_exceptions.txt 09:44:59 Can't find dat/default/autopickup_exceptions.txt. 09:45:03 <|amethyst> !source dat/defaults/autopickup_exceptions.txt 09:45:04 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/defaults/autopickup_exceptions.txt;hb=HEAD 09:45:15 |amethyst: wait, do we already have functionality to change autopickup based on items seen? 09:45:24 <|amethyst> Lasty: not exactly 09:45:31 <|amethyst> Lasty: the ring thing goes by whether it's identified 09:45:35 <|amethyst> which doesn't work for evokers 09:45:45 Ah, yeah. that's what I thought 09:45:45 <|amethyst> MarvinPA was looking into that I think? 09:46:03 Oh, interesting. I looked into it once before but then back-burnered it 09:46:08 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:46:09 <|amethyst> I think he thought you wouldn't have to expose very much info to Lua to be able to do it 09:46:27 <|amethyst> I don't remember the details...there was a problem with his patch but IIRC it seemed surmountable 09:46:56 maybe I should check w/ him before working on it 09:47:53 !tell marvinpa |amethyst says you put in a patch to disable autopickup for some items if they've been seen. I'd like to chat w/ you about it re: elemental evokers, and also rings w/ sac hand 09:47:53 Lasty: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 09:49:01 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:01 -!- Cras has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:52:46 -!- jacobian has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:13 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:06:09 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:14 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:30 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:06:46 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:58 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:09 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:14:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:04 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:24:16 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:29:02 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:38 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 10:31:23 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:04 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:48 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:38:35 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:41 hey guys, what happened to the old learndb?? It used to allow you to search for monsters and items etc, but now its just 1 big page and impossible to search efficiently 10:39:15 <|amethyst> it needs to be reimplemented using the sequell remote query API instead of having a local copy of the db 10:39:28 <|amethyst> now that the db isn't just a bunch of files in a directory structure 10:39:49 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:40:23 is that a lot of work? 10:40:47 ive been away since 0.13, so much has changed! 10:40:51 <|amethyst> probably not *that* much 10:41:21 i might take a look, I work in API development so it might be right up my alley 10:41:39 do you know off hand if there is a ticket kicking around? 10:41:44 <|amethyst> not sure 10:41:50 <|amethyst> probably not 10:42:47 <|amethyst> let me see if I can find the query URL snark gave me 10:43:03 ok, ill take a look... at the moment its a nightmare trying to search for anything in it 10:43:48 its ok for people who know the game, but without the wiki being listed on the site, and leardb in its current state, there is not much easily accessible info available 10:46:47 -!- rgould has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:49:27 <|amethyst> I'd add the wiki to the main page myself 10:49:34 <|amethyst> don't remember when it was removed 10:51:33 <|amethyst> mrwooster: https://loom.shalott.org/api/sequell/ldb?term=goodcode https://loom.shalott.org/api/sequell/ldb?search=wiki 10:52:37 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:54:31 wiki has been gone for a long time... i presumed it was a democratic decision? 10:55:22 <|amethyst> Probably "hey, wiki sucks, any objections to removing the link from wordpress?" 10:57:17 hmm, like the API, but the old learndb used to show you extra info for monsters, e.g. resistances, XP gained, HP, tiles icon etc... where did it get that info from... its not being returned by the api 10:57:34 <|amethyst> it was calling 'monster', the same thing cheibriados runs 10:58:08 <|amethyst> the same copy of monster that gretell uses in fact 10:58:08 +1 vote for putting the wiki back on the home page... I understand the arguments that some of the info is not accurate, but its still a really good resource for beginners 10:58:38 does that have an API available? 10:58:52 <|amethyst> it's just a program you execute 10:58:57 goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-6 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 10:58:57 <|amethyst> %??goblin 10:59:19 Harold (09@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 76 | AC/EV: 0/8 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 992 | Sp: b.fire (3d17), blink [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:59:19 %??harold 10:59:23 <|amethyst> the output looks like that, with either ANSI or IRC colour codes depending on how you call it 10:59:35 <|amethyst> (ANSI if stdout is a terminal) 10:59:35 cool, that can easily be parsed 10:59:44 <|amethyst> ??monster 10:59:45 monsters[1/4]: The most up-to-date code for %?? and %? can be found at http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git , or clone from http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git , branch 'bleeding-edge-crawl'. 10:59:58 ok, going to work on putting something together that looks more like the old learndb... assuming no one else is working on it? 11:00:01 <|amethyst> there's the source, it also needs a checkout of crawl 11:00:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:17 <|amethyst> I don't think anyone is 11:00:45 if wiki is linked from our main page, it should be called "unofficial wiki" or some such to make it clear that we don't control it 11:00:55 <|amethyst> agreed 11:00:57 since we really don't, and people often assume that 11:01:36 (aside from that linking it somewhere sounds reasonable to me; I don't remember the discussion about removing the link) 11:01:39 <|amethyst> Could list it with the Reddit communities 11:01:52 <|amethyst> Rename that section to "Community" 11:02:17 <|amethyst> I guess that's not distinct enough from "Discussing the game" 11:02:33 maybe merge those sections 11:02:58 that makes sense 11:03:28 <|amethyst> I think chequers front page rework links to the wiki 11:04:03 <|amethyst> And there has been some discussion about contacting the wiki admins about making it more official 11:04:28 <|amethyst> I objected when it was phrased as a "takeover", but a collaboration would be good 11:04:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-4008-gc88e425 (34) 11:05:14 <|amethyst> mrwooster: if you haven't been following the discussion on CRD: https://crawl.project357.org/static/dcss-web/index.htm is the current prototype I believe 11:05:22 <|amethyst> unless there's a newer one somewhere 11:05:33 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:12 -!- Cras has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:08:08 (that prototype should also make it clear that the wiki is unofficial, and possibly not call it up-to-date :P) 11:10:12 amethyst: thanks, been out of the game for a few months so still catching up on developments, is the intention for that to eventually replace the current site? 11:10:28 <|amethyst> mrwooster: at least the front page 11:10:45 <|amethyst> mrwooster: wordpress would stay around 11:11:49 cool, makes sense 11:12:49 why does this level 13 demonspawn fire elementalist on level 3 of the orcish mines have an octopode in it 11:13:32 oh, the screenshot is random 11:21:12 -!- rgould has quit [Changing host] 11:23:40 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:25:36 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:43 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:30:35 Lasty: it was autopickup of items matching a stack in your inventory that i was working on and mentioned to |amethyst, here's what i have in my rc currently: http://sprunge.us/EPQJ 11:30:36 MarvinPA: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:30:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:30:54 (the problem with it was that it needs to work a bit differently in order to be extended to work on things like stacks of missiles) 11:31:45 that looks like a good autopickup to have 11:32:19 it's nice yeah, convenient for pan when i change around whether i want things like ?ew and ?ea a bunch! 11:33:02 yeah, that sounds really solid. Presumably the tech could be extended to create rules for matching rings and evokers 11:33:06 but yeah, disabling autopickup for duplicate evokers/rings/whatever i haven't looked into at all, would be very nice to have 11:33:24 I'd like to set those as default, rather than jus add it to an rcfile 11:33:40 could certainly use something like that to avoid picking up new evokers if you're carrying one currently 11:34:51 yes, that sort of thing shouldn't be hard 11:35:10 i think amethyst suggested exposing items_stack() to lua somehow so that it could work on things like missiles (currently that wouldn't work right for ego missiles since it just checks subtype) 11:35:46 Lasty: they would presumably be added to the same file with the trog book autopickup thing (which also uses an add_autopickup_func) 11:35:49 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:13 makes sense 11:36:25 -!- ClawlessVictory has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:36:45 !source dat/defaults/autopickup_exceptions.txt 11:36:45 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/defaults/autopickup_exceptions.txt;hb=HEAD 11:37:09 for rings, what did you have in mind precisely? currently autopickup uses a hack to avoid picking up some jewellery if you've already identified that type and multiple items of that type are useless 11:37:32 i think then there's a double-hack on top of that for ashenzari, too? 11:37:48 which handles a lot of situations, the main thing I can think of that isn't handled is that autopickup will happily pick up your third ring of rF+ 11:38:17 good thing you rarely find three of those 11:38:20 it wouldn't be too hard to write an add_autopickup_func to check for that 11:38:27 yes it doesn't come up that frequently fortunately 11:39:09 -!- CcS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:47 elliptic: I was thinking after sac hand, you'd want to disable all ring pickups aside from rings with variable value 11:40:06 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:40:06 MarvinPA: so for making pickup_stackable handle missiles, don't you just need to check subtype and ego or some such? 11:41:06 hmm maybe, i think my initial implementation exposed is_stackable_item() to lua so that's why amethyst suggested exposing items_stack() instead? 11:41:24 does lua expose the list of items you've seen? 11:42:18 Lasty: ah, sac hand... yeah, for that you should just be able to add something to l_you.cc that tells the player whether hand has been sacrificed, and then add a function that turns off autopickup for rings of those types if missing a hand... don't even need to check inventory 11:42:20 Lasty: no 11:43:38 MarvinPA: can't you just check it.class to determine stackability? 11:43:57 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:44:50 true! it's entirely likely i'm overcomplicating things :P 11:44:54 I see, phantom mirror is an exception, I didn't realize there were any :P 11:45:18 (I don't pick up phantom mirrors very often :P) 11:46:02 I guess exposing items_stack might make things simpler though 11:46:34 -!- surr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:47:27 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:14 don't need to worry about checking the proper attributes 11:49:34 <|amethyst> handling ammo stackability would be good anyway 11:49:43 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:49:59 <|amethyst> so that I can pick up only curare without having to manually tune things 11:51:10 -!- CcS is now known as CcS01 11:51:19 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:44 |amethyst: sure, all I was saying is that I don't think exposing items_stack() is actually necessary to do that (it is probably a good idea though) 11:53:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:58:24 -!- CcS01 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:07:34 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:08:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:33 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:49 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:44 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:19:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:58 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:39 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:40 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:41 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:35 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:36:29 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:48 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 12:37:40 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:31 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:42:29 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:42 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 12:44:07 -!- CcS has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:45:26 -!- rgould has quit [] 12:49:01 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:55:10 -!- Misder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:57:49 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:44 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:09 -!- kaiza has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:36 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:01:52 -!- work__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:23 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:54 !tell wheals just noticed your trapwalk_safe_hp from a few months ago, it is bad for qw :( 13:15:55 elliptic: OK, I'll let wheals know. 13:18:20 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:30 -!- wheals has quit [Changing host] 13:18:30 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:30 !tell darwin i think that the switch to SDL2 in trunk is supposed to have improved the interaction with multiple monitors; we're going to have a prerelease of trunk ready soon-ish if you want to package it 13:20:30 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:20:31 wheals: OK, I'll let darwin know. 13:20:33 !messages 13:20:33 (1/1) elliptic said (4m 39s ago): just noticed your trapwalk_safe_hp from a few months ago, it is bad for qw :( 13:20:53 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20:53 (missing "change" there) 13:21:11 i kept the option itself around specifically for qw iirc 13:21:13 would it be awful for me to add an option specifically for bots 13:21:27 or did i later remove the option 13:21:38 wheals: it only applies to mechanical traps now 13:21:53 qw used it to avoid getting stuck because of alarm/tele traps too 13:21:58 ooh 13:22:19 maybe the option that can prevent travel on shallow water can be co-opted 13:22:47 what do you mean? 13:23:29 well, i assume it's a list option 13:23:49 so the default would be += trap, and you could -= trap to allow travel across them 13:24:50 apparently it (travel_avoid_terrain) is "not a true list option" 13:25:25 rip... 13:25:59 hmm i'm having trouble making gozag wrath not be awful 13:27:27 currently it gives a 1/3 chance of blurry mouth and he bribes (haste/might/berserk) stuff when it comes into view for a couple of xls, but i'm not sure what a sensible chance for bribing things is 13:28:47 basing it just on bribability like it used to be is obviously no good, basing it on monster hd vs player xl means he hastes entire death yak packs, making it a fixed chance means he berserks a bunch of popcorn 13:29:35 -!- War_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:32:55 <|amethyst> could make it a flat chance if the HD is high enough 13:34:18 <|amethyst> or randomly pick N of the high-enough-HD monsters currently visible 13:35:10 <|amethyst> you probably wouldn't want something that can be diluted by having popcorn around 13:35:13 how about gozag-flavored trog/oka style? turn random piles of gold into appropriate punishers, rather than relying on what monsters are around 13:35:49 although I suppose that fails if you'vecleared the level, hm 13:36:44 crystal guardian (038) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 56-74 | AC/EV: 22/0 | Dam: 35 | 11non-living, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 1108 | Sp: b.crystal (3d25) [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 13:36:44 %??crystal guardian 13:36:49 just turn gold piles into these guys 13:36:52 it'll be fun i swear 13:38:05 auric guardian 13:38:33 mm, could still be a different gozag flavour: spawn piles of gold at the edge of LOS, have them turn to punishers on the next turn 13:39:30 <|amethyst> geekosaur: apportation or cblink saves you from one of them? 13:41:07 wheals: I might just replace trapwalk_safe_hp with a list option listing types of traps to view as safe 13:42:55 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54:36 -!- markgo` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:58 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:05 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 14:13:21 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:05 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:16:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:17:20 -!- roushguy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:34 wheals: hm, I'm confused... it looks like trapwalk_safe_hp is never actually set? or at least I don't see a BOOL_OPTION(trapwalk_safe_hp) in initfile.cc 14:20:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:20:45 huh 14:20:55 oops? 14:20:56 I'm not sure how it worked prior to your commit either though 14:21:02 it was lua 14:21:34 yeah, but the lua was looking at options.trapwalk_safe_hp 14:21:58 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:55 which afaict wasn't set anywhere either? 14:24:00 oh, maybe options.blah actually parses the file itself? this is confusing 14:24:23 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:32 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 14:24:52 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:21 I guess probably that is what cluaopen_options is doing 14:26:59 anyway I think that if the option hasn't been working for a few months and I am the first to notice this because of qw stuff, then I can probably safely repurpose the option for qw :P 14:31:34 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:33:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:23 qw-options reactivated 14:34:30 hm 14:35:59 maybe I'll just remove the option and add a lua hook there for "power users" like qw to customize behavior 14:36:16 -!- Basil is now known as Guest83596 14:36:48 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:38:25 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 14:38:53 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:09 -!- work__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:46 <|amethyst> I see, "power user" isn't like "power lifter" 14:40:51 <|amethyst> it's like "power windows" 14:41:13 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:02 -!- nonethousand has quit [Changing host] 14:48:26 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:14 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:20 quite powerful users 15:05:13 -!- Guest83596 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:06:57 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:31 -!- debo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:13 -!- ClawlessVictory has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:16:32 -!- Jonatan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:19:08 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:20:12 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:42 -!- markgo`` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:52 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:46 MarvinPA: ok; I think the swinginess of duplicate is ok (adds another dimension to the decision of "go gozag or don't"), but the unfun nature of the 'duplicate consumable' thing is a reasonable objection. how about this: 15:25:08 MarvinPA: remove duplicate. instead, when you go gozag, add an intro gift ('complementary with purchase of one (1) gozag franchise') of useful early-game items: a couple of consumables, or a mid-range ring, a decent wand, that kind of thing. 15:25:56 it seems like that might work? 15:26:04 and wouldn't be very hard to implement 15:26:51 PleasingFungus: only if there's some kind of gaudy animation when it happens that makes you feel you're in an infomercial 15:27:12 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:31 gammafunk: thank you for volunteering to implement the animation :) 15:27:40 I am sure you will do a great job. 15:28:33 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:29:48 flash a 1-272-727-2727 number at the top of the screen, good enough? 15:32:42 mm 15:32:47 -!- gammafun1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:56 also I'm sad that I missed a snark commit 15:33:02 %git 15:33:03 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-4008-gc88e425: Add missing CRs to MSVC project. 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c88e425841ed 15:33:09 probably not that one 15:33:16 don't ping the snark...! 15:33:20 oh! 15:33:23 that's what you meant 15:33:25 but it's 78efcc4129347 15:33:33 I'd do a sp^G if I didn't need an ash win 15:33:34 !lg . 15:33:34 No games for gammafun1. 15:33:38 !lg gammafunk 15:33:39 2627. gammafunk the Sharpshooter (L27 KoEn of Dithmenos), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2015-02-15 07:39:16, with 1468021 points after 88000 turns and 8:39:11. 15:33:47 previous snark commit was may of last year 15:33:51 oh that's terrible, now I have to try to finish this awful spwr^ash 15:34:01 was hoping I had a splat in between 15:34:02 hahaha 15:34:07 woe is you 15:34:09 hm 15:34:11 !lm . x=gid 15:34:12 5966. [2015-02-11 21:20:07] [game_key=PleasingFungus:cszo:20150014001128S] PleasingFungus the Summoner (L16 MuAs of Gozag) found a gossamer rune of Zot on turn 44488. (Spider:5) 15:34:21 ah, this character is from this year 15:34:22 wasn't srue 15:34:32 continue after G wrath reform and switch gods imo 15:34:38 what 15:34:41 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:34:49 surely I should switch gods *now*, before the wrath is made actually threatening! 15:34:58 but you want to test MPA wrath! 15:35:02 do I 15:35:05 what if his wrath is not vicious enough? 15:35:09 tbh I'd rather actually win a mummy 15:35:12 and end my suffering 15:35:17 (suffering = playing mu) 15:35:26 I found MuGl^G to be pretty fun, oddly enough 15:35:36 this char isn't *awful*, just 15:35:39 ehhh 15:35:39 much more so than other chars I assigned myself 15:35:46 I left off after finding ponderhat 15:35:47 tempted to wear it 15:35:53 well summoning with G 15:35:59 I'm not sure that's a wonderful combo 15:36:02 ? 15:36:02 I did melee, so that helped 15:36:21 I just mean you're bound to not use potion petition as much 15:36:30 depends on how you build your char ofc 15:36:34 o. true. 15:36:54 I was doing more summon/melee hybrid stuff (summons for stabs), but then I kind of had to choose between xp for melee and xp for monstrous menagerie 15:36:59 since mummy apts 15:37:07 you have to go for haunt! 15:37:09 it's required 15:37:19 I don't think I've found any of the highlevel books 15:37:25 about to go grab beasts for summon hydra, tho 15:37:29 sadly you have to find haunt, and yeah finding haunt is not required 15:37:40 time to switch to sif 15:37:42 ok brb 15:38:37 -!- nono_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:05 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:47:59 -!- Guest83596 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:45 -!- Menche has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:20 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:52:47 !lg . 15:52:47 No games for gammafun1. 15:52:50 !lg gammafunk 15:52:51 2628. gammafunk the Covert (L8 SpWr of Ashenzari), quit the game on D:5 on 2015-02-15 21:51:32, with 1034 points after 6683 turns and 0:38:01. 15:52:55 -!- gammafun1 is now known as gammafunk 15:52:59 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:06 gammanofunallowed1 15:54:27 I could not hack spwr 15:54:41 !hs * hack spwr 15:54:42 No games for * (hack spwr). 15:54:48 spellbook full of spells that don't kill things, and I have a shortblade 15:54:52 !apt sp 15:54:52 Sp: Fighting: -2*, Short: 1, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -3*, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 1, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -3*, UC: -2*, Splcast: 2, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 2, Charms: 4!, Summ: -2, Nec: -1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 0, Evo: 4!, Exp: -1, HP: -3, MP: 3! 15:56:17 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:24 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:02:58 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:03:39 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:10 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:06:32 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:31 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:43 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:52 -!- markgo`` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:16:13 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:00 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]] 16:18:34 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:59 are there instuctions for building crawl anywhere (platforms, dependencies etc)? Cand find anything in the wiki/git repo docs 16:26:26 <_miek> pretty sure the README file in the git repo has build instructions 16:27:01 <_miek> ah.. nope its INSTALL.txt 16:28:03 ah, my bad, was looking at readme and docs folder… got it 16:31:25 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:41 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:53 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:45 doesn't the makefile output a message about that first thing? 16:35:12 (if you've not built before, or after make clean) 16:35:21 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:38:25 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:31 -!- eb has quit [] 16:41:43 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:49 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:48:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:54:35 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:53 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:59:17 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 17:03:40 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:04:34 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-4008-gc88e425 (34) 17:08:39 -!- gressup has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:58 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13:25 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:07 |amethyst: all of what you said re: front page rework is correct 17:16:43 except that the wiki admins decided they didn't want to become official, citing belief that the dev team still call them "badwiki" 17:17:39 also, I'd still like to get monster-trunk data onto the wiki, but it's such a pain I'm hoping someone else will do it 17:17:51 I... think dev team has never really been point on that? influential players, yes 17:18:01 New branch created: gozag_wrath (7 commits) 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4009-g0b03098: Remove goldification and gold taxes from Gozag wrath 10(30 hours ago, 5 files, 2+ 97-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0b03098510a6 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4010-g0bf9e2d: Extend Ashenzari's wrath model to be usable by other gods, apply it to Gozag 10(29 hours ago, 10 files, 84+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0bf9e2dbea75 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4011-gdd22dfc: Let Gozag bribe most monsters during wrath 10(28 hours ago, 4 files, 42+ 36-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd22dfce1c5b 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4012-g174c7c4: Disable Gozag Duplication 10(27 hours ago, 3 files, 0+ 59-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=174c7c4a655f 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4013-g98cecd0: Update Gozag descriptions 10(27 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=98cecd072e8f 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4014-gbeb5f6f: Make Gozag's potion-blocking wrath effect more likely to trigger 10(25 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=beb5f6f36e72 17:18:02 03MarvinPA02 07[gozag_wrath] * 0.16-a0-4015-g3282c3a: Make the first usage of Gozag's potion petition free 10(10 minutes ago, 4 files, 22+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3282c3ad3460 17:18:41 i'm just relaying what the wiki admins said, but in their defense I'll argue that the meme has gone almost completely unchalleneged by devs 17:18:48 (that last commit inspired by PF's suggestion earlier) 17:19:28 possibly the save compat in that could do with sanity-checking, although i did test it and it seemed to work 17:20:36 and I'll counter that devs usually don't involve themselves with user stuff at that level. (you don't generally want devs running the user help forum... it's a severe impedance mismatch) 17:23:29 <|amethyst> geekosaur: devs certainly involve themselves with learndb quite a bit 17:24:37 but they stay out of e.g. recommending resources for learning to play, mostly 17:25:55 re learndb, it's a way to help communicate about recent changes. the wiki could be used for that but I think it would not be simply because there's no irc interface to it >.> 17:26:58 (also the learndb lends itself to terse descriptions) 17:28:34 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:02 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:37 (note, I personally have referred to it as badwiki in the past --- when it was clearly deserved. I haven't called it such since it became clear that they were switching things around, in large part because I'd love to see it become a good resource) 17:29:42 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 17:31:57 <|amethyst> I'm still not sure when the link was removed 17:32:06 <|amethyst> there was some discussion of it last April 17:32:22 -!- TR_Muscateer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:41 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:43 <|amethyst> but I'm not sure how to see edit history in wordpress 17:33:19 Surge of power should not happen with Animate Dead 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9489 by Sprucery 17:33:19 if you edit the page, there should be a "revisions" button on the right side near 'save' and 'publish' 17:33:25 -!- rgould has quit [] 17:33:31 <|amethyst> it's a link, not a page 17:34:34 but it's a link on a page 17:34:41 so edit that page and then look at its revisions 17:35:19 <|amethyst> Those links show up on every page 17:35:48 oh menu. no revisions for those :( 17:35:52 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:36:23 -!- gressup has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:26 while we're on the subject of the new website, if you wanted to bikeshed anything or complain about minor design issues -- now is the time! 17:40:19 I think the only content question left is to decide if an 'about' page is required, and how to link to development/open-source info 17:45:39 -!- DrStalker has quit [] 17:46:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:50:06 elliptic, marvinpa: How's this look for misc autopickup? Seems to work fine. 17:53:13 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:52 "this"? :P 17:56:04 -!- andrewhl has quit [Quit: andrewhl] 17:56:10 MarvinPA: Lol, oops. http://pastebin.com/7eHkxPWm 17:56:19 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:39 you mean you can't just -find- whatever I pasted wherever I pasted it? 17:56:40 jeez. 17:57:44 fr lantern of storms 17:57:50 heh, oops 17:57:54 so there's an issue 17:57:57 -!- mrwooster has quit [Quit: mrwooster] 17:58:29 Otherwise look okay? 17:59:04 hmm i think maybe it's better to return false in the loop and just return otherwise? 17:59:40 that way they won't be picked up at all if they're not in your normal autopickup somewhere 17:59:48 if i'm remembering how autopickup precendence things work right 18:00:25 Ah, fair enough. I was thinking it would be good to put them on autopickup, since it's almost always correct 18:01:46 maybe, i just don't know how having add_autopickup_funcs in the default autopickup_exceptions.txt works 18:02:02 like, can it be easily overridden 18:02:12 since you can't choose not to include that file any more? 18:02:17 if it works the same as curare, the in-game settings override it 18:02:56 <|amethyst> ??autopickup[5] 18:02:56 autopickup[5/5]: From lowest-priority to highest: autopickup (by symbol) option < autopickup_exceptions option < CLua add_autopickup_func < backslash menu < ctrl-a 18:02:57 curare isn't enabled by default anymore, and when it was it just used a regular autopickup_exception 18:03:01 and you can clear that list easily 18:03:39 <|amethyst> elliptic added clear_autopickup_funcs 18:03:48 <|amethyst> %git f0307c90 18:03:52 07elliptic02 * 0.16-a0-3636-gf0307c9: Merge add_autopickup_func and add_no_autopickup_func; add clear_autopickup_funcs. 10(5 weeks ago, 5 files, 50+ 34-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f0307c90bf47 18:04:19 aha 18:04:28 okay yeah that solves the thing i was worried about then 18:06:13 anyone got an opinion about whether it's good to set evokers to autopickup by default? 18:07:35 i guess i still vaguely prefer having it return false in the loop and then defer to whatever your autopickup_exceptions say (and adding either all of misc or that subset of misc to autopickup_exceptions by default too?) 18:07:41 <|amethyst> yeah 18:07:57 ok 18:08:02 <|amethyst> if we want to make them pick up by default, I would add an autopickup_exception to do so 18:08:15 <|amethyst> then have the pickup func rule out the ones that are duplicates 18:08:38 because "i really want to pick up duplicates of elemental evokers" sounds like a much less likely thing to happen than "i don't want to pick up any elemental evokers" 18:08:40 <|amethyst> then someone can overrule the former easily with an autopickup_exception 18:08:45 exactly, yeah 18:09:09 -!- hypermatt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:09:10 <|amethyst> I assume "lantern of storms" is supposed to be "lantern of shadows"? 18:09:11 Good points! 18:09:18 |amethyst: heh, yeah 18:09:29 <|amethyst> as far as whether they should be on autopickup... probably not the disc of storms 18:09:41 <|amethyst> since that one is useless without evo 18:09:49 also my new patch for the lantern of storms, which I plan to push hthe day before 0.16 ships 18:09:50 -!- work__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:55 <|amethyst> not sure about lantern of shadows 18:10:27 <|amethyst> also, it would be a little inconsistent to autopickup the elemental evokers but not, say, box of beasts or sack of spiders 18:10:32 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:10:44 true 18:13:09 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 18:13:57 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:10 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-4009-ga355640: Disable autopickup of evokers when duplicates don't help 10(58 seconds ago, 1 file, 17+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a35564097ff8 18:17:13 thanks for the input, folks 18:19:06 is there already exposed lua for player innate mutations? 18:19:48 <|amethyst> there is for mutations in general 18:19:55 <|amethyst> which should be enough for sacrifice hand 18:20:13 sweet 18:20:40 <|amethyst> something like you.mutation("missing a hand") 18:22:27 Also, does lua short-circuit conditionals? Would it be worth checking if the item in the duplicate evokers function is a misc item or not to sace on string comparisons? 18:22:39 s/sace/save/ 18:23:12 <|amethyst> I don't know if it would save much to do the extra check 18:23:20 <|amethyst> I do have an optimisation for you though 18:24:04 sweet 18:25:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:06 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4010-ga0531c1: Add a missing newline. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a0531c156be9 18:26:06 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-4011-gd24ddc7: Don't repeatedly compute an item name. 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d24ddc728c16 18:26:27 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:46 thanks for that 18:34:32 -!- Bloax is now known as Bloax_ 18:34:51 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:02 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:19 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:23 -!- gressup1 is now known as gressup 18:43:20 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:39 -!- pikaro has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:58 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:15 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:46:55 -!- tstbtto has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:47:21 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:51 -!- schistosoma has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:16 -!- njorth has quit [Client Quit] 18:49:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:49:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 18:54:23 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:10 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:58:37 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:58:59 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:33 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:33 The build passed. (gozag_wrath - 3282c3a #1780 : Chris Campbell): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/50883710 19:01:34 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 19:09:27 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:11:38 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:17:59 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-4012-g76970db: Turn off autopickup of redundant rings after Sac Hand for non-octopodes 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 39+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=76970dbf17ad 19:20:28 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:21:16 -!- Guest83596 has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:23:06 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:26 -!- rgould has quit [Changing host] 19:35:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:04 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-4013-gd591273: Fix join rejection messages for a few gods. (ChrisOelmueller) 10(49 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d591273c9ec4 19:42:20 -!- Bloax_ is now known as Bloax 19:44:07 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:31 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:58:37 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:53 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:42 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:36 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:32 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:34 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:12:36 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:49 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:44 -!- rivet1 has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:17:22 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:48 -!- wamaral_ is now known as wamaral 20:19:00 -!- wamaral has quit [Changing host] 20:29:49 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:52 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 20:38:59 -!- rgould has quit [] 20:39:45 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:19 -!- jark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:41:05 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:20 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:22 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:40 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:36 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:47 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:19 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:14 Is anyone here interested in removing amulets of resist mutation? 20:57:47 (or discussing it, rather) 20:57:53 why? 20:58:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:49 same reasoning for removing conservation (before item destruction got removed anyway) 21:00:16 -!- Misder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:00:27 it's an item that you can swap in against certain monsters for a permanent strategic benefit, which is poor gameplay, and if malmutate serves an important strategic purpose then it is weakening it a lot 21:00:42 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:01:07 also, this would make halflings more unique! 21:01:54 make it malmutate you when put on! 21:02:04 no more swapping in and out :P 21:02:07 (or wearing it) 21:03:03 anyway, the set of monsters that can malmutate is so limited (certainly compared to item-destroying monsters) that i don't think it's a big problem 21:03:48 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:04:01 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:45 <_miek> make it absorb the mutations and apply them on removal 21:05:38 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:55 you're gaining something in the long run, sure, but right now you're sacrificing wearing a better amulet 21:06:23 i suppose crawl has removed many strategic effects, so it's hard to make a good analogy 21:06:48 wheals: but you aren't sacrificing wearing a better amulet if you just swap it in 21:07:48 i was thinking of just faith really, which implies that some kind of swap cost would probably be good for rmut 21:08:14 since faith does make you take a sacrifice 21:29:23 -!- Misder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:29:28 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:24 i feel like a lot of players would be unhappy if there were no options to prevent malmutation (except of course LoS/murder) 21:30:47 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:12 fuck players! i hate those! 21:31:19 well, fair enough 21:32:30 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:50 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:50 -!- nonethousand has quit [Changing host] 21:33:50 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:09 oh. I was assuming if you were going to remove rMut, you would be simultaneously modifying mutation a bit to compensate 21:35:31 unless ALL mutations were temporary. which seems kinda drastic 21:36:10 <|amethyst> should probably also make malmutate smite-targetted 21:36:34 I don't think that would really help as long as walls still exist 21:36:38 <|amethyst> true 21:36:41 after getting mutated you get 10-20 aut of mutation immunity 21:36:53 I guess it would get rid of using summon clouds, which is nice 21:46:39 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:01 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 21:50:09 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:43 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 21:52:44 should Ossuary really appear as late as DL8? 21:52:50 Just had one and it was really easy 21:53:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:55 <|amethyst> * "Hillbilly Sting" made useless (If you don't know, you don't need to know.) 21:57:17 now i want to know 21:58:09 <|amethyst> %git :/hillbilly 21:58:10 Could not find commit :/hillbilly (git returned 128) 21:58:19 <|amethyst> %git :/Hillbilly 21:58:21 07sorear02 {doy} * 0.6.0-a2-219-gb1efd32: Hillbilly sting fix redux 10(5 years ago, 1 file, 44+ 37-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b1efd3212911 21:58:31 <|amethyst> throwing needles without a launcher 21:58:44 nice 22:00:27 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:26 was there anything 0.6 didn't nerf 22:01:30 other than monsters 22:02:43 fr reincarnate hillbilly sting 22:03:55 but then blowguns become useless! 22:07:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:25 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:09:27 Chmeee (L27 HESk) ASSERT(!actor_at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 428 failed. (Tomb:3) 22:09:40 oh no 22:09:41 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:12:04 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:49 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 22:13:04 -!- Sovek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:32 minmay: yeah I think you're correct there. I'd be a little concerned about how extended plays, but in practice cure mutation is not really all that rare 22:14:42 wrt removing "rmut 22:15:02 in any case we could adjust the amount of cure mutation a bit to compensate if need be 22:16:29 we may need to also look a bit more carefully at the current set of mutations and figure out what we want from the balance of good vs. bad mutations, which affects just how strong malmute is ofc 22:18:22 obviously we create purple fountains that players can quaff from to get a chance of cure mutation 22:19:35 -!- gressup has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:04 -!- jiero has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:49 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:22:22 dip chunks into purple fountains to get purple meat 22:22:31 +1 22:23:30 but beware summoning the fell Purple Demon! 22:26:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:26:36 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:38:46 I would like to step in and disagree with the idea that amulets of resist mutation need to be removed 22:39:39 making every mutation temporary could be cool, if the timer for currently-permanent mutation sources was like 1XL 22:41:01 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:04 ??amulets 22:41:04 amulets[1/2]: The list of amulets in Crawl are: clarity, conservation, faith, gourmand, guardian spirit, inaccuracy, rage, resist corrosion, resist mutation, stasis, and warding. 22:41:10 good conservation 22:41:16 !learn edit amulets[1] s/conservation..// 22:41:17 amulets[1/2]: The list of amulets in Crawl are: clarity, faith, gourmand, guardian spirit, inaccuracy, rage, resist corrosion, resist mutation, stasis, and warding. 22:41:28 oh and no regen 22:41:46 !learn edit amulets[1] s/rage/rage, regeneration/ 22:41:47 amulets[1/2]: The list of amulets in Crawl are: clarity, faith, gourmand, guardian spirit, inaccuracy, rage, regeneration, resist corrosion, resist mutation, stasis, and warding. 22:41:51 ??amulets[2] 22:41:52 amulets[2/2]: Rage, gourmand, guardian spirit, and faith (if you have a religion) identify upon wearing. Stasis will identify when appropriate (e.g. reading teleportation or becoming hasted/slowed). Clarity, warding, rCorr, and rMut can be figured out by checking for their effects, but won't autoID. Conservation and inaccuracy are left over. 22:42:07 also good identification advice 22:42:12 !learn del amulets[2] 22:42:12 Deleted amulets[2/2]: Rage, gourmand, guardian spirit, and faith (if you have a religion) identify upon wearing. Stasis will identify when appropriate (e.g. reading teleportation or becoming hasted/slowed). Clarity, warding, rCorr, and rMut can be figured out by checking for their effects, but won't autoID. Conservation and inaccuracy are left over. 22:42:32 anyway I was looking for amulet list because I don't really think rMut is worse than a lot of the other amulets 22:43:05 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:06 warding, stasis, rCorr, clarity are also "swap in for mostly unnecessary resist" 22:43:19 so I don't really understand the sudden hate for rMut amulet in particular 22:45:42 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:48:27 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:40 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 22:53:35 FR: if there are two portal vault entrances on the same level, extend the time for both of them 22:53:49 or pause the second time when you're inside the first one 22:55:46 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:01 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-4013-gd591273 (34) 23:01:53 I would prefer just not generating two timed portal vaults on the same level 23:06:13 elliptic: would you prefer that to the status quo? 23:08:05 probably, yes... I don't think it is great to have to choose the faster of the two portals to do first and then rush through it 23:08:22 it rewards spoilers/experience even more than portal vaults already do 23:08:41 hmm 23:09:22 we don't pause portal timers when you're in a portal? 23:09:33 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:53 bh: not afaik, and I don't think it would make much sense... we don't pause portal timers when you are offlevel either 23:10:26 Chei offers to pause the clock if you convert to him 23:11:47 -!- HellTiger has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:11 fr faith slows piety gain with chei 23:14:53 -!- Menche has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:16:00 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:53 elliptic: my hate for rMut amulet is because mutations are permanent whereas rN/stasis/rCorr/clarity don't matter after you've survived the fight 23:17:10 clarity lets you save !cur 23:17:24 elliptic: I had the same issue with old conservation and rcorr 23:17:25 minmay: are mutations really much more permanent than draining? 23:18:16 Basil: and rings of protection from fire let you save !heal wounds and !haste 23:18:23 anyway I'm not sure why them being permanent matters 23:18:27 elliptic: yes, mutations are more permanent 23:19:10 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:38 bh: in what sense? mutations and draining can both be removed by playing crawl more (to find items and gain experience) 23:19:54 mutations are in some sense _easier_ to remove because you might already have cure mutation 23:20:18 elliptic: same reason item destruction/corrosion being permanent mattered; you end up using special tactics against monsters that would otherwise be trivial 23:21:05 minmay: you would use special tactics against shining eyes even without rMut amulet, no? 23:21:43 "swap in my amulet" is a "special tactic" but I'm not sure why I should be so bothered by it 23:22:01 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:20 is swapping in warding against shadow dragons really better? what about swapping in rCorr for a caustic shrike? 23:22:23 it is the same tactic 23:22:26 elliptic: yes; if you don't agree that conservation was bad, then certainly I wouldn't expect you to find rMut problematic either 23:23:01 minmay: no, I agree that conservation was bad and that rMut is also bad... but I also think that these other amulets are just as bad 23:23:14 and I don't understand why you don't find them bad 23:23:46 elliptic: I do find them bad...just not *as* bad because you don't get a permanent benefit from using them at every opportunity 23:24:05 -!- ClawlessVictory has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:24:08 again, why is being "permanent" relevant? 23:24:32 elliptic: the same way permanent corrosion was relevant 23:24:43 that's not an explanation 23:25:44 elliptic: with malmutate, you get a long-term benefit for micromanagement, same as you did with item destruction and old corrosion; rMut contributes to the micromanagement 23:25:53 <|amethyst> rF also gives you a permanent benefit from wearing it at the right times 23:25:55 minmay: so why aren't you arguing for making mutations temporary 23:26:03 minmay: rather than going after the amulet only 23:26:04 <|amethyst> in that you don't die 23:26:19 minmay: it sounds like you are complaining about malmutate being permanent, not about amulet of rMut existing 23:26:52 elliptic: because permanent malmutate is not something that seems likely to change and has other design roles; I cannot think of any useful purpose served by rMut amulets 23:27:16 |amethyst: yes, but not in trivial fights 23:27:17 minmay: can you think of any useful purpose served by rCorr amulets or warding amulets? 23:27:42 elliptic: no, but I think the detrimental aspects of them are different in nature 23:28:13 elliptic: and that the same issue applies to all swappable items with resistances 23:28:27 well, until you actually explain why the detrimental aspects are different... 23:30:01 elliptic: whether you swapped in rCorr or warding doesn't visibly matter after the fight is over as long as you didn't die (could have conserved piety or something but presumably not in trivial fights), whether you swapped in rMut does 23:30:13 minmay: again, draining 23:30:45 elliptic: whether you swapped in rCorr doesn't visibly matter after the fight is over as long as you didn't die (could have conserved piety or something but presumably not in trivial fights), whether you swapped in rMut does 23:32:17 elliptic: as a result, I feel a much stronger obligation to swap in rMut whenever it might have an effect. that's the difference, I can see why you might not consider it an important one though 23:32:50 minmay: do you also feel a much stronger obligation to use LoS/monster speed abuses and summon shields against mutators 23:33:27 elliptic: yes, and those are problems too, but the only changes I can think of that would solve them all at once, would have effects on other parts of the game that are arguably undesirable 23:33:54 how did that last comma get there 23:34:14 I see this as a general problem with mutators, and I don't think that removing rMut does much about it -- you still have to treat harmless monsters like shining eyes with special tactics if you want to play "optimally" 23:35:39 it is a general problem with mutators. It's the exact same reasoning as that for removing conservation back when item destruction still existed, so there's not much else to say about it. 23:35:43 (also, are we really just talking about shining eyes and about cacodemons with very powerful characters who find them trivial? or are there other monsters too that I'm forgetting?) 23:36:20 <|amethyst> neqoxec presumably? 23:36:27 oh right, those 23:36:55 neqoxec is the one that ends up annoying me most often 23:37:11 IMO changing/removing shining eyes and neqoxecs would do a lot more to address this issue than removing rMut amulet would 23:37:41 not that I'm actually against removing rMut amulet too, I dislike most amulets (as I said) 23:38:14 hmm 23:38:16 shining worm mass 23:38:32 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:39 <|amethyst> why isn't jelly farming a thing? 23:38:42 I don't actually think neqoxec is necessarily a bad monster, if malmutate is going to exist at all then it's a good one IMO, but why is it in pan 23:39:17 -!- AtomikKrab has joined ##crawl-dev 23:39:18 speed 7 mutator is inexcusable in my view though 23:39:31 it is better in abyss 23:39:40 but still not great IMO 23:40:19 I think simply removing shining eye would be reasonable though 23:41:08 make shining eyes speed 20, change their malmutate to irradiate 23:41:09 -!- __miek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:36 (i'm assuming grunt is going to add a monster with irradiate anyway so might as well get it out of the way) 23:42:46 <|amethyst> is having to drink a potion of cancellation afterwards that much better than having to put on an amulet beforehand? 23:43:16 I wasn't serious 23:44:37 -!- orneryostrich has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:44:39 the wretched star thing would make sense on shining eyes too I guess, except for the part where it would do nothing :P 23:46:06 fr: fix tense of milestone messages 23:46:30 good: left the Tomb of the Ancients. bad: is cast into the Abyss! (an ogre mage) 23:46:43 (remove "is ") 23:46:56 chequers cast into the Abyss! (an ogre mage) 23:47:03 <|amethyst> that would be less grammatical 23:47:06 <|amethyst> use "was" 23:47:28 it should be "was", yes 23:47:48 well, you can turn the first message into a sentence: "Just {message}" 23:47:53 "chequers will be cast into the Abyss!" 23:47:57 most milestones seem to fit into that sort of sentence 23:47:57 if they're using that anim 23:48:30 ??it[3] 23:48:30 it[3/43]: < Henzell> snow the Brawler (L17 TrBe) is cast into the Abyss! (it) (D:20) 23:49:11 I wonder whether changing it to "was cast" would require a sequell change to avoid breaking sequell's noun extraction 23:49:13 also, greensnark built a sequell HTTP API so now live games show bonus info: https://crawl.project357.org/static/dcss-web/index.htm 23:49:38 (probably too much per-game info now, but you get the idea) 23:49:54 "the Tartarus" 23:50:08 ? 23:50:17 paste the full line? it's randomly generated per-load 23:50:24 Level 27 High Elf Skald 23:50:24 on level 7 of the Tartarus 23:50:35 <|amethyst> hm, there's one more present-tense milestone that I see 23:50:37 should not have that "the" 23:50:41 <|amethyst> "is a monstrous demonspawn!" 23:51:10 oops 23:51:40 <|amethyst> (that one's a bit more difficult, because "was a monstrous demonspawn" has the wrong aspect) 23:51:49 elliptic: fixed, thanks 23:51:53 looks like sequell should be fine with the abyss.enter tense change 23:52:33 chequers: interesting, now I don't see any live games at all 23:53:04 I have the same problem 23:53:07 |amethyst: "became"? 23:53:17 <|amethyst> elliptic: "was revealed to be"? 23:53:44 "felt monstrous as their demonic ancestry asserted itself!" 23:53:45 or that, yeah... I guess that fits the flavour better 23:53:52 <|amethyst> hm 23:54:05 <|amethyst> should there be an announcement when you are known *not* to be monstrous? 23:54:18 <|amethyst> first scale or body-slot mutation I guess 23:54:33 oh, did i make a syntax error? 23:55:16 -!- elmdor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:26 <|amethyst> !lm * monstrous 23:56:27 20587. [2015-02-16 05:29:45] alanim the Skirmisher (L2 DsCK of Xom) is a monstrous demonspawn! (D:2) 23:56:30 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:56:40 <|amethyst> !lm * monstrous / quitting 23:56:44 3350/20587 milestones for * (monstrous): N=3350/20587 (16.27%) 23:56:48 discovered their monstrous ancestry! 23:56:55 <|amethyst> ooh 23:57:32 realised? grew into? 23:58:00 |amethyst: having one monstrous/!monstrous milestone for every demonspawn seems unnecessary IMO 23:58:39 <|amethyst> hm, perhaps not a milestone, but a message to the player at least 23:59:49 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 23:59:55 chequers: nice choosing a random field to display now btw :)