00:02:04 -!- __aiguu__ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 00:05:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:07:13 http://imgur.com/bBiK4AO Tiamat. 00:09:30 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 00:10:34 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3843-ged98c6c (34) 00:12:11 Hurricos: alternate possibility: redraw the dragonskin cloak 00:12:43 ontoclasm: Meaning? The doll icon, the inventory icon? 00:13:03 any of the above 00:13:06 -!- __miek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:13:28 i can give you feedback on tiamat if you'd like 00:13:31 I see. Thinking something like a Deep Elf annihilator shoulder / cloak 00:13:44 just for the style, but yeah. That's how I'm trying to draw it on her 00:13:51 yeah, I'd like that 00:15:35 well, first would be: people's eyes get drawn to the brightest, most high contrast areas 00:15:58 so you want those to be key parts of the image (usually the face, the hands, etc) 00:16:17 right now the biggest eye magnet you've got is her shoulder/wing part 00:16:18 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 00:16:41 So definitely dim down the "pajamas;" alright 00:16:44 her face is sort of invisible, since it's dark and low-contrast 00:17:18 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:17:42 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:45 so yeah, darkening the outfit and the wings will help a lot, as will increasing the contrast on her face 00:18:19 secondly, we use black outlines around the sprite as a whole, but generally not around interior parts 00:18:34 (obviously you can, it's just not what we usually do) 00:20:38 the most effective way to distinguish two parts that are next to each other is to make them different colors; putting a line between them is a last resort 00:20:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:20:58 aha, okay 00:21:20 ontoclasm: I just felt that the cloak's edge should feed into the rest, but I should be able to work out that irregularity 00:22:38 -!- Krinn has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:24:18 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:18 keep at it :D 00:25:29 i love seeing submissions from new people 00:25:49 Thanks :D 00:26:33 By the way, is there any specific way you start out from a model? I went in GIMP and started out 256 x 256 and progressively defined what I wanted out of lower res, but I'm not sure if that was the best way to go about it 00:27:07 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:27:33 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:56 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:08 Hurricos: i usually start by blocking out a silhouette 00:32:32 no colors, just a black blob with a blob for the head, a blob for the hips, etc 00:32:55 then chip at the edges to get it into the right proportions 00:33:28 once the silhouette is clear enough that i can tell what i'm looking at even though it's pure black, i draw over it in greyscale 00:33:39 and then finally at the end i do the colors 00:33:41 -!- AtomikKrab has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:04 (and of course i change shapes and the silhouette along the way, but you get the idea) 00:34:55 -!- spacet_ is now known as spacet 00:36:28 i know bloax in particular sometimes starts big and then scales down but i feel like it makes it hard to get the right level of detail 00:37:19 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:40:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:41:33 -!- rophy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:04 -!- Doctell has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:47:52 ontoclasm: Based on what you advised, some changes. http://imgur.com/qIikgLU 00:48:02 I did leave the pallette on because I was too lazy to remove it 00:52:04 -!- Doctell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:33 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:50 -!- Wah has quit [Client Quit] 00:59:06 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:05 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:00:12 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 01:01:17 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 01:09:04 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:22 Hurricos: that looks much better already 01:15:11 Thanks, I was looking to model robe / armour color after wing membrane color, but 01:15:28 I realized that didn't work, so I just went with equivalent monster 01:15:43 Black -> Storm dragon; Purple -> Quicksilver, etc 01:16:00 err, I would fill those in if I were doing the rest, I mean. 01:18:23 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:01 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:09 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:30:38 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:35:39 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 01:41:20 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:38 -!- Whistling_Beard has joined ##crawl-dev 01:44:28 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:44 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:50:08 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 01:50:31 -!- MrScumbag1 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:58:39 -!- Hurricos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:01:14 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:01:44 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:01:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:05:42 -!- dididi has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:19 -!- markgo` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:40 -!- Letchik1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:16:07 -!- markgo` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:20 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:33 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3843-ged98c6c (34) 02:21:57 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:27:05 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:35 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:40:50 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 02:43:00 -!- herself has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:50:55 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:54:55 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:23 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:57:38 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:07:41 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 03:10:35 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:29:56 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:35:16 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:43:46 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:46 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:20 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 03:53:35 -!- Kramin_ has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:58:28 -!- MDvedh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:10:54 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:11:39 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:13:27 -!- Umbreoni has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:20:30 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:44 noticed a weird, minor bug 04:21:16 when you resume playing webtiles when you had stones quivered, it will say Nothing quivered 04:21:32 and you press Q and you can check that the stones are in fact quivered 04:22:31 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:24:17 -!- dididi has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:25:57 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:27:30 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:27:30 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:09 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:32:50 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:32 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:36:52 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49:51 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 04:53:32 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:04:22 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:46 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:20:10 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:06 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:24:18 can you save and load games in wizmode? 05:26:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:53 -!- siepu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:32:08 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:45 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:56 -!- debo_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:54:16 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:54:35 -!- debo_ is now known as debo 06:04:30 Fv001 (L16 GrFi) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 114: ZotDef: monster burning bush failed to pathfind to (39,56) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 06:12:03 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:12:46 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:32 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:22:31 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:49 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:53 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:26:00 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:27:47 -!- y2s82 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 06:31:32 DenpaOtoko (L15 HOFi) ASSERT(a) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 892 failed. (No actor in stationary net at (36,54)) (Shoals:5) 06:32:12 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:40:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:41:04 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:41:52 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:53 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:18 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:00:45 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:01 -!- Tux[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:36 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:10:50 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:26 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:15:35 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:17:53 -!- siepu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:45 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:32:11 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:36:53 -!- cykeltillsalu has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:11 -!- xug_ has quit [*.net *.split] 07:42:05 -!- Nivim has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:38 If wand of lightning causes dith wrath, it should probably give a warning. If it doesn't, how hard would it be to warn about fires started as a result? 07:43:54 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:45:14 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 07:46:05 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:28 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 07:51:24 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:03:28 -!- eternal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:03:38 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:55 -!- ldierk has quit [Changing host] 08:03:55 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:04:27 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:26 -!- pantaril_ is now known as pantaril 08:07:06 -!- hong_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:15 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:07:17 hi 08:07:39 help me 08:07:57 how to set my webtile server for official record? 08:17:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:31:02 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:17 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:42:52 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:48:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 08:48:52 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:53:04 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:07 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:49 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:02 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:09 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:06:39 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:11:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:08 -!- spacet has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:03 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:54 -!- siepu_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:03 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:26:32 magicalfaerieponies (L20 TrMo) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 114: ZotDef: monster ice statue failed to pathfind to (39,26) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 09:30:13 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 09:30:22 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:31:06 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 09:32:02 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:13 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:00 -!- Basil is now known as Guest36673 09:34:18 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 09:37:26 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:40:22 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:47 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:37 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:48:27 -!- Dunsworth has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:53:41 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:54:38 -!- Nivim has left ##crawl-dev 09:59:04 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:17 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:11:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:25 &rc lasty 10:15:27 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/Lasty.rc 10:19:46 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:21:04 <|amethyst> Lasty_: hm... found a bug in sac xp 10:21:10 <|amethyst> Lasty_: two actually 10:24:39 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:24:58 |amethyst: uh oh 10:25:04 I'm all ears 10:25:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3844-g434d602: Don't offer Sac Exp when it would kill you. 10(22 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=434d6028a664 10:25:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3845-gf827ec7: Don't allow Sac XP when it would kill you. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f827ec78a74e 10:25:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3846-g72ebfd3: Actually take XP away when sacrificing experience. 10(47 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=72ebfd352fc9 10:25:19 <|amethyst> Lasty_: commits incoming 10:25:25 lol 10:25:41 those are good pushes 10:25:57 I did not take seriously the possibility of players killing themselves w/ sac exp 10:26:02 but I suppose I should 10:26:10 <|amethyst> granted, it's not very likely 10:27:13 <|amethyst> The last one is more broadly applicable though :) 10:27:26 yes, agreed 10:27:44 What's the implication of not taking away the xp? Do you just level up again when you kill the next thing? 10:28:21 <|amethyst> yeah, it left you at e.g. XL: 2 Next: 294% 10:28:25 lol 10:28:27 oops 10:28:35 I really should have caught that 10:28:42 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:34 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:35:05 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:36:04 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:46:28 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:42 |amethyst: player::get_max_xl() should probably also use RU_SAC_XP_LEVELS 10:47:36 -!- bitcoinbastard has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:50:21 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:53:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:54:11 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:56:35 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:08 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:01:55 |amethyst: it's still possible to kill yourself with sac experiences 11:05:26 <|amethyst> wheals: oh? 11:05:36 check out lose_level() 11:05:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:06:02 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:13 <|amethyst> what does losing a level take HP anyway? 11:07:19 who knows 11:07:24 -!- njorth has quit [Client Quit] 11:07:30 !hp 11:07:31 Usage: !hp [species] [XL] [Fighting] 11:07:33 <|amethyst> does that mean a felid can die twice in a row if they have enough -HP ? 11:07:41 <|amethyst> die to the level loss from dying? 11:07:41 !hp Og 27 0 11:07:42 HP apt: 3!, XL: 27, Fighting: 0 => MHP = 202 11:07:44 !hp Og 25 0 11:07:44 HP apt: 3!, XL: 25, Fighting: 0 => MHP = 188 11:07:49 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:07:54 i don't know whether the level loss happens before the resurrection or not 11:08:52 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:56 -!- ldierk has quit [Changing host] 11:08:56 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:16 <|amethyst> I'd be inclined to just remove that ouch() 11:11:33 so would i :) 11:11:38 and the dec_mp 11:13:53 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3847-g8ceac7d: Use a constant elsewhere (PF) 10(21 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8ceac7d57b1b 11:14:03 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:14:13 <|amethyst> I don't have time atm to test the implications of that, but as long as it doesn't leave you with negative rot it sounds fine 11:14:52 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:33 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: can you think of any negative implications to removing the ouch() and dec_mp() in lose_level ? 11:16:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:16:10 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: it allows you to kill yourself with sac xp and with the zotdef ABFLAG_LEVEL_DRAIN abilities 11:19:39 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:19:57 huh, i never even knew those existed 11:20:07 seems like removing them would be fine, yeah 11:22:49 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3846-g72ebfd3 (34) 11:24:30 !source monster::check_awaken 11:24:31 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD#l5876 11:26:48 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:39 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27:55 -!- Datul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:32:36 imo remove the abilities 11:32:41 and the game mode 11:33:25 !remove GruntDef 11:34:06 I am not the gnomkc archmage Zot, despite persistent rumours to the contrary. 11:34:15 s/k/i/ 11:34:46 ha, so you've still never actually said you aren't 11:38:01 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:38:21 !learn set grunt[6] I am not the gnomic archmage Zot, despite persistent rumours to the contrary. 11:38:22 grunt[6/27]: I am not the gnomic archmage Zot, despite persistent rumours to the contrary. 11:39:06 zot is so ancient that gnomes have become extinct 11:39:27 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:38 the deep dwarves slaughtered them. 11:41:11 as they did to mountain dwarves 11:41:29 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:41:37 -!- cribozai_ is now known as cribozai 11:41:39 hm, wait 11:41:51 "never" heal wounds naturally 11:41:56 damage resistance 11:41:58 genocide 11:42:05 deep dwarves confirmed DF dorfs 11:59:34 -!- Huene_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:01:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:03:47 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:49 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:58 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:07:20 -!- yuastnav has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:07:35 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:57 -!- djinni has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:41 -!- Ipsum has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:41 -!- lajenca has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:41 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:41 -!- hypermat1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:41 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:08:41 -!- doy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:03 -!- wamaral has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:03 -!- lavos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:41 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:47 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 12:11:26 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:12:43 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:53 * |amethyst cancels task: patient not resting 12:17:30 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:18:40 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:42 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:09 -!- cribozai has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:15 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:39 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:34:51 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:35:08 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:16 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0/20150108202552]] 12:46:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:20 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:44 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:54 Lasty_: from the sa thread: "t) +11 spear {vamp, rF- rC- Str+11 Stlth+}". The System Works 12:47:26 yeah, I feel really good about that 12:47:41 that's awesome/terrible-tacular. 12:48:12 gonna wreck everything until he gets one-shot 12:48:28 by a fire drake or ice beast maybe 12:49:13 yeah 12:49:16 beautiful 12:49:37 I'm a little in love with that artefact 12:49:48 -!- dididi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:06 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:54 :) 12:50:56 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:23 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:05 Any other good ones getting mentioneD? 12:53:44 -!- dididi has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:00 just spotted that one 12:55:01 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:55:08 also skimmed the gdd shadow trap thread 12:55:11 more whinging 12:56:43 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:57:54 on the one hand, you have to be willing to remove features that don't work out; that's a key part of what makes experimental development work. on the other hand, that thread is awful 12:58:01 so I guess, in conclusion, it's my own fault for reading gdd 12:58:17 your butt is awful 12:58:33 shadow butts are the worst thing since sliced butt 13:00:25 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:00:34 v true. 13:00:43 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:01:37 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:48 FWIW, my take is that a shadow trap triggering usually prompts one of three responses: 1) the spawns are trivial and I don't care, no change in behavior; 2) the spawns are not trivial, but a monster tripped the trap, so I walk away, or 3) I tripped the trap myself, the spawns are non-trivial, and I blink, tele, or die. (NB: I haven't died to one yet). 13:03:08 In general, I don't think these three situations are interesting, though every now and then they can me 13:03:11 *can be 13:03:23 <|amethyst> isn't that basically the same as a teleport trap? 13:03:37 yeah, except you already have an identified retreat path 13:04:16 In case 1 of a tele trap, you may not be in danger, but you may be separated from explored territory; 13:04:28 Case 2) doesn't exist 13:04:53 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:58 and case 3), you can be threatened by the output of the tele trap w/o being surrounded, meaning you might have to make an escape into unknown terrain 13:05:32 -!- UbAh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:36 <|amethyst> If monsters are either trivial or lethal with nothing in between, maybe the real problem is monsters 13:05:42 <|amethyst> and not the trap 13:06:14 |amethyst: well, they're usually lethal or borderline lethal, but you're surrounded, which eliminates most of the ways you can moderate lethality 13:06:36 That they shut down maneuvering is frustrating 13:07:23 <|amethyst> hm 13:07:25 would it make more sense to summon monsters further away from the player? 13:07:34 not possible in all cases, of course (e.g. tight corridors) 13:07:38 As a radical departure, what if they gave you a status that made a random summon spawn in each tile you move out of, or, if you don't move, randomly around you, for a few turns 13:08:03 <|amethyst> Summoner's Mark 13:08:04 Or what if they were a trap that only monsters can trigger, a force multiplier trap? 13:08:19 I guess something vague like drowned souls 13:08:22 *vaguely 13:08:28 I was talking about traps that only monsters can summon a while back. 13:08:37 but then you have to have a cool anime tile for each monster 13:08:44 like every monster needs an anime version tile 13:08:52 the problem is that it seems like it'd be very very rarely relevant 13:08:59 that a monster would step on a given tile when you're in LOS 13:09:01 idk 13:09:06 -!- wamaral has quit [Changing host] 13:09:07 *only monsters can trigger 13:09:09 yeah not surrounding means it is easier now to just walk away 13:09:15 as it is, monsters step on most of my shadow traps 13:09:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: unless they were smart enough to beeline to the trap 13:09:36 <|amethyst> "wait, why's that orc running away?" 13:09:44 |amethyst: I really don't like that idea, as I said last time you suggested it 13:09:46 You could bias it towards creating fast monsters to make running harder . . . 13:09:57 Lasty_: that's a fair point (re monsters stepping on shadow traps) 13:10:18 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:11:35 |amethyst: I *like* manipulating monster behaviour to trick them into not stepping on traps (possibly this makes me crazy), and I'm also worried about degenerate behaviour coming from "monster magnets" like that - similar problems to the current fleeing behaviour 13:11:52 (fleeing when unable to reach the player) 13:13:29 idk. could do the 'only monsters trigger' thing. the whole thing has me feeling burnt out, tbh 13:13:48 It's really just like Barbie says 13:13:51 Game design is hard 13:14:07 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:05 I think the instances where trap interaction has felt like a fun experience has been isolated to rare shaft instances and probably moving a monster onto a teleport trap (though not stepping on one myself) 13:15:32 But traps are one area where there is just a fair amount of disagreement 13:19:04 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:04 -!- Napkin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:19:04 I haven't read the gdd thread on shadow traps but I don't think they work well either 13:19:04 do you like any of the remaining traps, elliptic? 13:19:04 partly for some of the same reasons I don't like summons in general 13:19:04 -!- FaMottie is now known as FaMott 13:19:04 I like teleport/shafts 13:19:04 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:19:50 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 13:19:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 13:20:01 alarm traps are occasionally interesting but usually they just make you G< or drink cancellation 13:20:19 I used to like zot traps but I can't really figure out why now 13:20:24 haha 13:21:11 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:21:25 gammafunk: I liked some aspects of it certainly, though I never looked into the details of exactly what he removed and didn't remove (I was not very active with crawl at the time) 13:22:05 I think my "ideal" vision of crawl would have no allies and no temporary summons; I like convokers though 13:22:18 but I've been well aware that this isn't about to happen in crawl 13:22:23 He basically removed the player school and all monster summons, but never quite figured out what to do for e.g. mummies 13:22:33 mummy convoker 13:22:38 yeah, def won't, but no reason why it wouldn't work for a game like crawl 13:22:52 because (a) it would be a ton of work to rebalance everything and provide new abilities for some monsters/gods and (b) some people like summons :) 13:23:15 right, actually the gods are a bigger issue 13:23:25 well at least a very big issue 13:23:40 <|amethyst> not necessarily--could just remove Beogh and Yred 13:23:58 removing your mascot god sounds like a Good Idea 13:24:05 |amethyst: many other gods make major use of allies though - trog, makhleb, etc 13:24:07 we have a mascot god? 13:24:20 I don't think sigmund is a god... 13:24:28 they would all need new stuff or to be combined/removed 13:27:51 anyway, I'm fine if someone wants to earn some shadow-trap based millimarvins. I don't have the energy for it myself 13:27:51 but I will not stand in the way 13:27:51 how about making it single-use and summon actual monsters for a start 13:27:51 and see the reactions to that 13:27:51 yeah, I was wondering about turning shadow traps into single or several-use recall traps 13:27:51 Bloax: that is not gonna happen 13:27:51 summoning actual monsters 13:27:51 did tavern die again? 13:27:51 several would probably be bad 13:27:51 <|amethyst> IMO "see the reactions to that" is the wrong way to go 13:27:51 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 13:27:51 several-use I mean 13:27:51 PleasingFungus: I don't see a problem with it if it means "recall actual monsters" 13:27:51 for the same reasons I gave the last several times you suggested it: "I do not want to add XP Traps" 13:27:51 elliptic: recall != create 13:27:51 bloax is talking about a different thing 13:27:51 well I don't know what he meant of course 13:27:51 gee i sure saw that reason the last xty times i said that 13:27:51 you probably saw it the last time you suggested that in this channel, several months ago 13:27:51 and if you don't want that then i'm sorry but shadow traps will remain horrible 13:28:08 bloax, what are you trying to accomplish here. 13:28:11 what do you think you are doing. 13:28:14 <|amethyst> so you're saying shadow traps will be horrible unless they give you XP 13:28:18 <|amethyst> He's trying to make people quit 13:28:27 ^qYES 13:28:28 -!- eternal_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:28:29 obviously that is my intention 13:28:29 13:28:46 it's not like i actually want something to become better 13:28:49 <|amethyst> Why don't you go back to tomato rapist land? 13:28:51 he's an idiot who doesn't understand how to communicate with other human beings and has no interest in learning, and I don't understand why he hasn't been banned 13:28:52 that would be ~silly~ 13:29:22 you go communicate with people that never listen to you 13:29:31 see how you fare with staying sane for long 13:29:38 leave. 13:29:40 you are not wanted here. 13:29:52 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:55 :) 13:30:00 I am not joking. 13:30:17 -!- Sczcya has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:57 elliptic: a few people have suggested a recall trap, possibly even with a few-turn delay (like convokers.) it might work - I'm vaguely concerned about it being 'optimal' to trigger in some circumstances (pulling enemies to chokepoints and fighting the level there - especially if they're multi-use!), but alarm traps, teletraps, shafts are all useful to trigger in limited niche circumstances,... 13:30:59 ...so that might be okay as long as the recall traps have very limited uses. 13:31:24 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:10 well a recall trap would certainly be a pretty good trap 13:32:13 PleasingFungus: I've been wondering whether trap detection really needs to be that much of a thing 13:32:14 1-use is probably simplest. might be better if it's only player-triggered, in that case 13:32:18 what do you mean? 13:35:55 like, a lot of the time the following two things are equivalent "detect 25% of traps before stepping on them" and "generate 25% fewer traps" 13:35:55 a concern with recall traps (esp. monster-triggered ones) is having monsters pulled out of vaults 13:35:55 -!- WildSam has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:35:55 <|amethyst> having trap detection be something that the player has no influence over seems weird, yeah 13:35:55 |amethyst: that's a tangential question 13:35:55 I forget whether it currently depends on dexterity or anything 13:35:55 just level & whether you're worshipping ash, iirc? 13:35:55 yes 13:35:55 !source search_around 13:35:55 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/traps.cc;hb=HEAD#l1249 13:35:55 it depends on XL? that's pretty weird IMO 13:35:55 xl as a proxy for t&d skill 13:35:55 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: well, if 25% could be 5% or 50% depending on your long-term choices, that would make it fairly different from "generate 25% fewer" 13:35:55 basically, later on you end up detecting almost all traps before encountering them 13:35:55 anyway I only brought it up because a single-use trap that is never detected isn't something that the player can choose to trigger intentionally 13:35:55 I also think that, aside from certain vaults, it's a little odd to pre-generate traps -- see the old argument about having to keep track of which tiles have been stepped on. Aside from vaults, I'd be interested in traps changing to a fixed one_chance_in_x on every step . . . 13:35:55 so monsters can never step on traps? 13:35:55 Lasty_: that's been suggested before, and it is a little strange because it means that stepping back and forth between two squares is less safe than standing still 13:35:55 PleasingFungus: you add a chance for that too 13:35:55 I guess it'd be a chance only on the first time you encountered said square 13:35:55 Lasty_: I think that something like this has potential, but it might need to be more complicated in some way 13:35:55 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:37:08 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:08 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to a pastebin service, please. 13:37:08 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 13:37:15 there *are* times that detected traps are relevant - using or luring monsters into shafts & tele traps, for example 13:37:18 zot traps 13:37:22 sure 13:37:38 these are interesting situations that you'd lose, and I don't think you gain very much in exchange 13:37:47 this isn't old crawl, when you were walking through spear traps every 10 turns 13:37:58 there is not a great overabundance of ^s 13:38:04 there would still be the option to place known traps if we felt they were neat. 13:38:22 <|amethyst> I think Zot traps would not suffer so much from being undetected 13:38:24 PleasingFungus: another option would be to only make some types of traps be detected 13:38:41 <|amethyst> since they're not one-shot like shaft and tele traps 13:38:55 Oh nay! Ye haf blunder'd into a Zot trap! 13:38:59 <|amethyst> I am presuming they become detected once triggered 13:39:54 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:01 v0v 13:40:04 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0/20150108202552]] 13:41:10 rip 13:41:10 I'm still here fwiw 13:41:40 I guess traps are actually a bit more complicated to think about than I had thought 13:42:08 Lasty_: the other issue that I just remembered with traps-on-walking is actually bigger I think: it means traps while interlevel traveling through explored levels 13:42:22 which involves a lot of walking 13:42:35 elliptic: hrrm, true 13:42:44 getting shafted during that would be pretty irritating 13:43:01 well, unless you were going downwards anyway :) 13:43:07 heh 13:43:08 true 13:43:16 well, I had just assumed you meant only the first time the player explores a square, but I guess that's a problem too 13:43:21 getting shadow trapped or alarm trapped would be annoying too 13:43:42 <|amethyst> isn't running into monster wile interlevel travelling through explored levels also annoying? 13:43:46 <|amethyst> s/monster/monsters/ 13:43:53 yes it is 13:44:06 what about this: traps are pre-generated, but they don't do anything when you first step on them. Instead, once you leave the tile the trap becomes ID'd, and walking back into the tile triggers ---- oh, no, then it becomes optimal to walk back off each tile. :( 13:44:20 blerg 13:44:34 |amethyst: sure, but it isn't all that common compared to how common I expect traps would have to be if they are happening with the same frequency as elsewhere 13:44:57 I suppose you could stop applying traps-on-steps once you've descended past a level 13:45:15 so basically it'd be like playing snake except every square has food? 13:45:26 -!- Sczcya has left ##crawl-dev 13:45:53 well, you could make traps always trigger when they enter a player's los, and just place the right number 13:46:14 but that does lose what PleasingFungus was talking about 13:46:14 Maybe that's the best option 13:46:19 in terms of monster-trap-los interaction 13:46:29 hmm 13:46:40 fr: traplos 13:49:37 Jeez, it's hard to come up with design for traps that actually a net positive 13:49:49 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:05 <|amethyst> I don't see at the moment how to avoid the "safer to track what squares you have stepped on" problem without making either detection or triggering LOS-wide 13:51:36 yeah, agreed 13:52:47 hrm, is detection being one-time and LOS-wide a nice solution? 13:53:09 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it means you'd pretty much never accidentally trigger a trap, unless I'm missing something 13:53:36 by accidentally, do you mean, "I moved onto this despite it being detected"? 13:54:25 <|amethyst> I mean "I activated a trap without intending to do so" 13:54:27 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:36 <|amethyst> oh, I guess you mean a one-time chance at detection? 13:55:47 fr replace traps with a monster that casts a spell once when it notices you and then dies 13:56:37 <|amethyst> The formicid trypanomancer gestures. A shaft opens up beneath you! 13:56:50 -!- gammafun1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:01 ontoclasm: you mean lurking horrors? 13:57:47 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:56 basicallt 13:58:00 -!- muravey has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:04 lurking horrors are better traps than traps are 13:58:16 (except they cast a spell you can rest off) 13:58:27 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:27 I don't want traps to chase me 13:58:35 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:42 oh, yeah I realize that one-time-chance of detection when it comes into your los doesn't really solve anything related to moving on new squares 13:58:58 <|amethyst> muravey: hence the "and then dies" 13:59:15 in fact that might be the system we have already? 13:59:50 <|amethyst> gammafun1: no, it depends on distance 13:59:53 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:00 <|amethyst> !source search_around 14:00:01 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/traps.cc;hb=HEAD#l1249 14:00:10 isn't trap detection restricted to adjacent squares 14:00:11 ok, right. but it'd somewhat similar to detect-when-in-los 14:00:20 *it's 14:00:44 <|amethyst> kvaak: no, but it's much more likely on adjacent squares 14:00:45 hrm 14:01:03 well, if a trap only either triggers for the player when it enters los, or is otherwise identified 14:01:09 <|amethyst> kvaak: distance 2 multiplies the "skill" check by 1/3 14:01:14 doesn't that allow the kind of gameplay PF was talking about? 14:01:45 you step into los, the trap will either trigger its effect on you or it will become known as a trap 14:01:56 in the case of the latter, monsters can still move or be moved onto it 14:02:29 it seems to me that this would prevent any problems with tracking squares you've moved onto 14:04:18 mark/tele/shaft already don't care where you were when you stepped on them, and your position within los is rarely meaningful for zot or shadow traps 14:04:27 especially for zot traps I guess 14:05:53 <|amethyst> hm, "either trigger or detect on LOS" sounds reasonable for gameplay 14:06:15 -!- maldini has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:06:49 <|amethyst> for undetected traps that is 14:07:02 if they're monsters the system for that is already built-in 14:07:03 <|amethyst> vaults with known permatele traps (for example) probably shouldn't trigger on LOS 14:07:08 i.e. stealth 14:07:12 yeah I guess vault traps are a bit of another thing 14:07:44 there are vanishingly few instances in vaults where traps actually work well, at least it feels that way 14:08:16 I'm not sure where any of the tomb traps work well, for instance 14:10:05 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:27 !tell pleasingfungus there was some stuff i was hoping to get done before the feature freeze and i'm not sure if i can do it this weekend... how about Tuesday? 14:11:28 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 14:11:52 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:22 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:15:50 gammafun1: in my experience, only the zot traps in tomb are relevant at all 14:16:07 fr more curare traps? 14:16:18 -!- ZRN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:19 curare is often relevant 14:16:48 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3848-ga44d2e2: Simplify/comment. 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a44d2e2a238e 14:16:48 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3849-gfb16430: Simplify. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 36+ 44-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb16430e99ff 14:16:48 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3850-g74cb10a: Use a more consistent order. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74cb10a22eef 14:16:48 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3851-g94c187b: Remove a foul global. 10(3 hours ago, 6 files, 10+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94c187b23a76 14:16:48 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3852-g80a6ed4: Remove another global. 10(89 minutes ago, 23 files, 217+ 272-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80a6ed43dcaa 14:16:58 <|amethyst> curare when there are no monsters around isn't that relevant 14:18:28 <|amethyst> wheals: IMO remove that [in] 14:18:41 <|amethyst> wheals: there's no reason to annotate that on a non-pointer non-reference parameter 14:18:57 i left it in mostly since passing bolts by value doesn't happen every often 14:19:03 <|amethyst> wheals: (there was also no need to have it previously, since a const reference parameter also can't be anything but an in) 14:19:10 <|amethyst> hm 14:19:11 but i can see how it could be confusing 14:19:19 <|amethyst> right 14:19:27 <|amethyst> I mean, [in] makes me think it's *not* by value 14:19:47 i guess there's the comment itself 14:20:39 one second 14:21:41 <|amethyst> I wonder if we could do anything with base/offset and compass to avoid the potential for typos in process_command case CMD_BLAH_DIRECTION: blah(coord); break; 14:23:36 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:28 yeah, i was thinking about that 14:24:49 maybe #define WEST foo #define NORTHWEST bar // indices into Compass 14:25:11 but then it might make more sense to #define WEST Compass[foo] really 14:25:24 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3853-g0371b36: Clarify a comment (|amethyst). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0371b366be1e 14:26:05 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:05 <|amethyst> I was thinking something like: 1. reorder those CMD_ enums to match Compass 2. use case CMD_MOVE_UP: case CMD_MOVE_DOWN: etc: _move_player(Compass[cmd - CMD_MOVE_UP]) 14:27:20 <|amethyst> so you'd only write the _move_player thing once 14:28:50 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 14:29:09 -!- ZRN has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:30:21 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:34 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:32 &dump 14:41:33 No milestones for gammafun1. 14:41:36 &dump gammafunk 14:41:37 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/gammafunk.txt 14:42:07 ??food 14:42:07 food[1/4]: Goes in mouth/beak. Without carnivore or herbivore: Meat is 5000 nutrition. Bread is 4400 nutrition. Royal jelly is 2000 nutrition. A chunk is 1000 nutrition. Fruit is 850. Beef jerky/pizza is 1500. Porridge is 6000. 14:46:04 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:47:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:48:06 -!- ahpla has quit [Quit: yawn] 14:52:39 -!- dididi has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:08 <|amethyst> hm... are glaive of the Guard and Aizul supposed to be connected? 14:53:33 Aizul (13S) | Spd: 15 | HD: 14 | HP: 142 | AC/EV: 8/18 | Dam: 25 | spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1669 | Sp: b.venom (3d18), poison arrow (3d21), sleep | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 14:53:33 %??aizul 14:53:40 <|amethyst> if so, there is the small problem of guardian serpents not having arms 14:53:56 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:53:56 is there something in the description about that? 14:53:59 <|amethyst> The glaive was stolen a few months later, along with the rest of the queen's 14:54:00 <|amethyst> treasury; the guard, it transpired, had been caught napping. 14:54:10 <|amethyst> in the glaive of the Guard desc 14:54:29 perhaps aizul was cursed to take the form of a horrible guardian serpent 14:54:35 <|amethyst> hm 14:54:45 * geekosaur was just tnhinking "so, Aizul?" 14:54:46 <|amethyst> Aizul's desc implies he was a guardian serpent back then too 14:54:50 yeh 14:55:09 but I don't see why the queen's treasury wouldn't have been guarded bya guardian serpent 14:55:15 well I like the "cursed to become a snake-thing" idea, but it's not a really big deal I guess 14:55:27 maybe he knowns some really fancy dancing weapon spell 14:55:31 that he forgot 14:55:58 actually if I had read back a few more lines I would... 14:56:00 dderp 14:56:27 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:56:37 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus is your glaive of the Guard description supposed to be a reference to Aizul? If so, perhaps Aizul's description could change to imply that his current form is also punishment (since GSs don't have arms) 14:56:38 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 14:57:39 guardian serpent as punishment does sound like a rather pointed punishment 14:57:44 !tell PleasingFungus re: aizul getting cursed, just don't make it obvious that you're stealing my amazing Asterion lore (I wrote five pages of it) 14:57:44 gammafun1: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 14:58:05 <|amethyst> geekosaur: maybe that's where GSs came from in the first place 14:58:10 <|amethyst> geekosaur: they're all descendants of Aizul 14:58:20 <|amethyst> geekosaur: it's the Mark of Cain, for snakes 14:58:25 indeed 14:58:44 woah, let's not get into weird stories where we have to figure out if the first guardian serpents commited incest, or something 14:59:51 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:52 <|amethyst> gammafun1: maybe they bred with the anacondas in the branch 15:00:25 <|amethyst> also, somehow arms make you very slow 15:00:33 having seen snake orgies in nature videos, I really don't want to think about it 15:00:47 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:06 * geekosaur was thinking either crossed with nagas, or nagas were the result of Aizul missing humans 15:03:24 (it's crawl, who said it had to make sense) 15:04:50 <|amethyst> geekosaur: oh, I was assuming this was a naga queen 15:05:44 so crossed with nagas works 15:05:53 to get ordinary guardian serpents 15:06:20 -!- Zrachosh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:07:42 <|amethyst> hm... looking into adding an INSCRIP: to chilly and flaming death 15:07:58 <|amethyst> would be nice if there were a way for that to override the brand description 15:08:11 <|amethyst> right now I have "the +9 dagger of Chilly Death {freeze, flash, rPois+ rF- rC++ MR+}" 15:08:18 <|amethyst> and "the +6 scimitar of Flaming Death {flame, sticky, rPois+ rF++ rC- MR+}" 15:08:19 Of course having arms makes you slow. That's half your body focused on moving upright instead of wriggling you forward faster. 15:08:55 <|amethyst> Lasty_: I thought GSs slithered upright? I don't play tiles... 15:09:16 what's flash? 15:09:23 <|amethyst> muravey: "flash freeze" 15:09:38 on the other hand, do we want a description or do we want another tome like Fannar's old one? 15:09:42 <|amethyst> but "{freeze, flash freeze, ...}" doesn't sound a lot better 15:10:07 |amethyst: I assume they upright themselves after each move . . . 15:10:23 <|amethyst> FR: walking animations 15:10:45 <|amethyst> I mean, games have had those for what, 40 years? 15:11:13 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:26 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 15:11:52 -!- abixa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 15:13:32 haha 15:13:38 All monsters walk in place, constantly 15:13:40 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 15:14:00 and console glyphs just invert colors constantly 15:15:40 <|amethyst> Lasty_: we could use unicode 15:16:48 -!- olourkin1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:16:56 <|amethyst> orc walking: òōóoòōó 15:17:37 <|amethyst> or maybe toggle among ogonek, cedilla, and comma below 15:22:19 -!- feodoric has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:22:48 |amethyst: would be so cool if we could use accents for weapons/brands 15:25:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: would be easier if we moved everything that could use weapons to a vowel :) 15:25:16 true 15:25:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: of course unicode supports combining chars, but terminal support for those is not always great 15:25:39 yes, it is a pity :( 15:28:26 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3854-gbcb63e7: Doom another vestige of porridge. 10(41 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bcb63e785647 15:30:08 hm. but PotionWater is still there? 15:30:43 <|amethyst> oh, and several others 15:30:46 ...right 15:30:59 that is *already* in a #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 15:31:15 <|amethyst> ohh 15:31:16 look for "// Removed potions" 15:32:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3855-gd2600ac: Revert "Doom another vestige of porridge." (geekosaur) 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d2600ac58c8b 15:34:07 -!- Hurricos has joined ##crawl-dev 15:43:28 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:10 -!- hong_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:46:42 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:59 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:05 -!- ayayaya has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:53:24 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:32 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:10 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:01 <|amethyst> Lasty_: is the idea behind sac. stealth being half the piety of sac. durability that (almost) everyone wants Armour, but many characters don't want Stealth? 15:59:13 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:03:14 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:06:38 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:06 <|amethyst> Lasty_: thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/2u10xr/ 16:14:37 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:18:08 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 16:19:36 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:13 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:25 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:40 -!- Hurricos has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:25:26 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:43 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:36:34 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:37:19 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:37 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:06 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:42:45 -!- olourkin1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:42 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:50:55 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:53:41 Removing and dropping a ring takes different amounts of time based on how you do it 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9461 by Berder 16:55:33 -!- dididi has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:56:53 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:06:07 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:51 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:09:40 -!- Poroso has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:45 FR: new unrand Boots of Roots. Evokeable treeform. 17:11:23 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:03 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:44 yay! :) 17:19:07 * dpeg thinks that lignification rocks 17:20:27 -!- Guest36673 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23:56 <|amethyst> dpeg: statue form rocks, lignification woods 17:27:06 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-3855-gd2600ac (34) 17:29:35 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:19 |amethyst: I barked the pun 17:30:24 -!- ghostmoth has quit [Quit: ghostmoth] 17:32:00 <|amethyst> poor sap 17:32:04 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:27 -!- Basil is now known as Guest38177 17:32:43 you really should try to branch out a bit. 17:33:11 <|amethyst> I bough to your superior punstry. 17:33:26 I'm glad you twigged to that. 17:34:10 random question 17:34:22 when will .16 be released 17:34:25 never. 17:35:27 Lightli: we arranging things with the new Nethack devteam to have a common release (they will do 4.6, now that 4.5 is spoiled), in celebration of thirty years of rogueliking. 17:35:38 -!- cykeltillsalu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:52 that sounds awesome 17:36:17 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:36:31 yeah, they should settle whether they're content with a mostly bug fix version or which new features they want to import from what forks, though. 17:36:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: so in 2010, 2012, or 2017? 17:37:07 <|amethyst> (rogue, hack, and nethack) 17:37:12 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:37:26 no release in the past tense, my friend :) 17:38:56 |amethyst: but its good that you whippersnappers know your history! 17:39:16 <|amethyst> hey, I was already born when hack came out :) 17:39:30 oh my, you are an old fart! 17:39:36 |amethyst: we could fart together!!! 17:39:58 <|amethyst> !learn add dpeg |amethyst: we could fart together!!! 17:39:58 dpeg[14/14]: |amethyst: we could fart together!!! 17:40:15 hm, perhaps it sounds even better without context :) 17:40:49 Crawl 16: "now with sounds, exclusively via fanfart" 17:41:23 <|amethyst> have you tried fake_lang = butt yet? 17:42:03 no, should be quite my style 17:42:20 it's fun(ny) for 5 minutes, then it starts to get annoying as you have to constantly x everything 17:42:34 should also access us new segments of the video game market 17:43:07 <|amethyst> Butt says: Sacrifice that you might gain butt power! 17:43:39 A goblin comes into view. It is wielding a dagger of butt. 17:43:49 A butt comes into view. It is wielding a butt. 17:43:58 kvaak: my ass, is that criticism of DevTeam (C) efforts?!?! 17:44:26 it's disappointment on fake_lang = dwarven,butt not being as awesome as it should :( 17:45:06 -!- Doctell has joined ##crawl-dev 17:45:09 <|amethyst> maybe we could make webtiles butt mode offer the real word on mouse hover 17:45:12 * dpeg hands kvaak some bread & butter 17:47:26 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:46 -!- mineral has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:50 -!- Doctell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:50 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:50 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:47:51 -!- PsyMar has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:47:51 -!- mineral has quit [Changing host] 17:47:51 -!- mineral has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:58 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 17:49:01 -!- XnMojo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:53 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:19 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:36 -!- Philonous has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:30 -!- dididi has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:05 -!- Kramin42 has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:50 <|amethyst> !tell hong_ For a webtiles-only server, the important things are to build with USE_DGAMELAUNCH=y and to make the logfile, milestones, morgues, and preferably ttyrecs available online 17:59:51 |amethyst: OK, I'll let hong_ know. 18:01:13 <|amethyst> !tell hong_ but that's going to change soon when we move to a single user database... we probably won't make any new servers "official" until that happens 18:01:13 |amethyst: OK, I'll let hong_ know. 18:01:49 <|amethyst> !tell hong_ no idea how "soon" though... could be months, there are many details to work out 18:01:50 |amethyst: OK, I'll let hong_ know. 18:03:09 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:04:29 many hard decisions 18:05:27 <|amethyst> oh, hm, that berder bug report looks legit 18:05:30 <|amethyst> !bug 9461 18:05:30 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9461 18:05:33 <|amethyst> Dropping a worn ring takes an extra turn 18:09:19 -!- Tungsten has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:09:21 the extra turn is a convenience cost, obv 18:09:51 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12:27 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:54 <|amethyst> hm 18:16:13 <|amethyst> the timing is right if it's part of a multidrop 18:17:25 <|amethyst> hm 18:17:42 <|amethyst> no, multidrop timing is also wrong if you're dropping multiple worn items 18:18:49 the butt language is repetive but ammusing 18:21:11 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:22:26 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:57 A - a cursed butt of loudness (left hand) 18:24:03 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:25:51 -!- Eptagon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:27:48 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:28:42 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:29:18 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:31:58 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:04 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:28 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:37:57 -!- lagged has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:37:57 -!- Sizzell has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:38:03 <|amethyst> wha? 18:38:31 -!- hypermatt has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:38:45 <|amethyst> hm 18:38:48 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 18:38:54 <|amethyst> sizzell lost connection to irc server 18:38:58 <|amethyst> wonder why I did not 18:39:23 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 18:39:36 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:03 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:36 -!- aiguu has quit [Client Quit] 18:40:37 my connection froze for a good long while 18:40:45 <|amethyst> to cszo? 18:41:01 to whatever freenode server I'm connected to 18:41:03 <|amethyst> ah 18:42:47 -!- gammafun1 is now known as gammafunk 18:42:59 .crushed -tv 18:42:59 112. crackermeal, XL27 FoFi, T:109746 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 18:44:52 -!- lagged has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:51 -!- Amy is now known as Guest38154 18:46:48 -!- link_108 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:47:38 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:52:27 -!- Hurricos has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:33 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:56:06 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:46 ??dragonskin_cloak 19:00:46 dragonskin cloak[1/2]: Tiamat's new +4 cloak after mean people took away her {GDA}. When worn, every hit has 50% chance to be affected as if you had 1 more dot in relevant resistances. 19:01:33 <|amethyst> FR: rather than wearing it, you get that by butchering her 19:01:39 <|amethyst> s/than/than her/ 19:01:49 You see here the hide of Tiamat. 19:01:51 <|amethyst> likewise other draconians can be butchered for cloaks 19:06:50 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:27 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 19:07:48 ...so when I ?ea a random cloak it becomes a leather armour? 19:08:41 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:30 (...?vorpalise armour) 19:10:51 <|amethyst> I guess "pair of draconian wings" until you enchant them, then they turn into a cloak 19:11:36 players on the forum go ballistic about nonsense <3 19:13:07 -!- xen has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:23 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:14:26 -!- dididi has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:17:52 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:31 !tell wheals Tuesday is fine by me. 19:19:32 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 19:19:41 (that's wrt feature freeze day) 19:19:42 but for PleasingFungus, it was Tuesday./ 19:19:58 <|amethyst> wheals is purchasing cheeseburgers on credit? 19:20:29 |amethyst: I... would have to check the logs 19:20:37 I remember there were a lot of revisions for that description 19:20:39 heh 19:20:42 the glaive of the guard thing 19:21:37 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:44 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think it's neat when bits of crawl flavour intersect 19:21:46 sure 19:21:52 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that's why I miss avenger Wiglaf too :) 19:21:57 ? 19:21:59 o 19:22:02 mountain dwarf avenger? 19:22:10 <|amethyst> yeah 19:22:19 <|amethyst> but that was too meta I admit 19:22:23 @The_monster@ says, "We wiped out the hill dwarves - you're next!" 19:22:26 -!- halberd has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:49 ^ have you seen that line (it is not a wiglaf line but it is currently in trunk) 19:23:10 there's a dev monster in trunk? 19:23:18 * geekosaur just thinking that... 19:23:26 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: haha, nice 19:23:28 -!- Hurricos has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:23:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: no, I hadn't seen it yet 19:23:39 <|amethyst> ♥ 19:23:41 it's set to be relatively rare, since it's goofy and meta 19:23:44 w:2 19:23:58 actually that's w:2 in robin_rare, which is w:5 19:24:14 <|amethyst> also, I liked the Fannar novella 19:24:18 haha 19:24:20 I just saw what I felt was a bad vault 19:24:23 anyway I found the glaive of the guard line 19:24:25 that wa appearing in zot 19:24:40 odd decor that suggests a temple, no altar. Just a few dracs and a piece of loot 19:24:52 I track it down, and it's kennysheep_underground_church 19:25:00 kennysheep wins again 19:25:53 rip 19:26:41 ok, the glaive of the guard used to be the weapon of "Gar Dogh" ("guard dog") 19:26:50 haha 19:26:56 that's sorry terrible, it's great 19:27:00 ya 19:27:01 *so 19:27:07 then according to these logs I wanted to make it aizul's, but he doesn't have any arms 19:27:21 so I made it vaguely ambiguous (the queen is potentially a lamia reference) 19:27:30 you could have given him Trogdor-style arms 19:27:33 http://pastebin.com/5521v9uW has the relevant stuff 19:27:37 just a beefy arm off the back 19:27:47 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:54 *arm not arms, you only need one 19:28:12 but 19:28:15 (there is no Gar Dogh, only Aizuul) 19:28:15 is there a way to download Sequell's game and milestone database? 19:28:15 glaives are two-handed.... 19:28:26 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: wheals' explanation is my headcanon now 19:28:32 not for Trogdor-Aizul they aren't! 19:28:39 |amethyst: perfect 19:28:45 I'm still fond of my joke at the end, but I would be 19:28:56 I confess to bias :) 19:28:59 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, yeah, that one's good too 19:29:28 <|amethyst> I'm fine with it being ambiguous 19:29:32 |amethyst: should we let players choose a seed on webtiles and make their game unscored? 19:29:41 <|amethyst> makes you think it's aizul, then the fridge logic hits 19:29:55 ya 19:30:12 ah, this also confirms that I was explicitly thinking about Small Gods when I was retheming shield of resistance 19:30:26 someday I should write more descriptions. there are some spellbooks which have super boring descriptions 19:30:31 and crown of dyslexia 19:31:17 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:18 * dpeg has used Shield of Resistance yesterday. Together with two other great shields <3 19:31:24 <|amethyst> bh: hm... don't think there's a good use case for that considering that we rebuild and can therefore cause desyncs 19:31:54 <|amethyst> bh: might be good for private webtiles though 19:32:06 <|amethyst> s/for that/for that on the servers/ 19:32:17 <|amethyst> since I just realised you didn't specify that 19:32:50 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:04 dpeg: you *play* crawl? 19:33:05 dpeg: multi-shield wielding......!? 19:33:24 this is a powerful tactic..... 19:33:32 -!- eternal_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:33:50 <|amethyst> bh: because levels aren't all generated at once, the only real use for -seed that I can think of is botting (including TASsing) 19:34:42 !gamesby bh 19:34:43 bh has played 1670 games, between 2009-05-12 22:05:21 and 2015-01-17 23:26:26, won 12 (0.7%), high score 3071093, total score 31691782, total turns 8503877, play-time/day 0:19:53, total time 28d+16:38:25. 19:34:46 !gamesby dpeg 19:34:47 dpeg has played 2223 games, between 2006-12-15 12:29:19 and 2015-01-29 23:53:12, won 24 (1.1%), high score 2059249, total score 63360884, total turns 22924946, play-time/day 0:33:52, total time 69d+19:19:38. 19:34:54 <|amethyst> if we wanted to allow "everybody has the same dungeon" contests, that would be possible by stuffing chunks into the save file from somewhere else, before loading D:1 19:35:39 bh: yes, and yesterday was really cool: I played a Trog of Gozag, and I was really running out of food. 19:35:44 <|amethyst> could filter them as you do so to make things unexplored, reset trigger timers, etc 19:35:47 a trog of gozag....? 19:35:55 !lm dpeg gozag 19:35:56 erm, a Troll, forgive me :) 19:35:56 637. [2015-01-29 22:54:24] dpeg the Heavyweight Champion (L27 TrMo of Gozag) left the Depths on turn 60706. (Depths:1) 19:35:59 nice 19:36:05 ya, tr^gozag would do that, I expect 19:36:09 how did the food shop pricing treat you? 19:36:15 it was fucking expensive! 19:36:16 I do wonder about the balancing on that 19:36:25 <|amethyst> FR 19:36:28 I did a Tr^G with the earlier G 19:36:32 <|amethyst> give everyone troll-level hunger 19:36:33 I tried to make them cheaper but it didn't really work out. might be better if they only gave you food you could eat 19:36:38 like Gozag was intentionally squeezing me out :) 19:36:38 but that was when he gave porridge pots 19:36:48 gammafunk: blood pots for tr, surely? 19:37:06 |amethyst: the food clock mattered for once, was a nice change 19:37:11 <|amethyst> tr aren't carnivorous 19:37:16 o 19:37:20 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:22 am I thinking of ko or fe 19:37:33 I think that armour shops should only sell useful stuff, though 19:37:35 <|amethyst> oh 19:37:39 <|amethyst> they are slightly 19:37:53 <|amethyst> hm 19:38:21 PleasingFungus: I duplicated 11 meat rations 19:38:25 <|amethyst> no, the message is just confusing 19:38:37 dpeg: niiice 19:38:41 <|amethyst> "You like to eat raw meat." in A but no MUT_CARNIVOROUS 19:38:49 dpeg: you should talk to marvinpa at some point; he's been talking about cutting duplication 19:38:55 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 19:38:57 oh no 19:39:01 idk when you and he are ever in channel together, tho 19:39:11 <|amethyst> dpeg: IMO replace duplication with smithgod's artefactise 19:39:16 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:29 |amethyst: not sure that's happening for 0.16........... 19:39:38 |amethyst: it does create a choice, right from when you start worship. Is it trivial for you what to duplicate? 19:40:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: yeah, I was thinking long-term 19:40:37 hm 19:41:05 also, potion petition is in a pretty good shape now 19:41:07 |amethyst: it could work; I don't know 19:41:09 dpeg: :) 19:41:17 there's an ugly hack in the code for that which I need to fix at some point 19:41:30 bribing V:5 was great, bribing Zot felt a bit lackluster 19:41:32 but I'm glad to hear you like it! 19:41:36 <|amethyst> IMO the problem is that it's kind of unintuitive 19:41:44 <|amethyst> you think "oh cool I can duplicate cool items" 19:42:04 |amethyst: I really like it when a god has immediate appeal (Lugonu does, too, for example). 19:42:05 <|amethyst> then you realise that the "coolest" items, there's no need to duplicate 19:42:15 <|amethyst> so it's a little bit of a disappointment 19:42:16 b/c of artefacts? 19:42:30 <|amethyst> weapons, armour 19:42:44 fr: s/pair of gloves/glove/ 19:42:49 finally, duplication reasons!!! 19:42:53 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:57 Hm, I beg to differ: you can duplicate your two D:4 ?blinking, but you could find another one on D:5. You could hold for a small stack of !haste etc... I have duplicated !HW, curare (on an As), large rocks (on a OgHu), and food so far. 19:43:57 unrelated 19:44:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, should Sac Hand make gloves give less AC/enchantment/etc ? 19:44:03 even items that aren't useless in multiples tend to have diminishing returns 19:44:10 |amethyst: nooooo 19:44:20 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: forgot the FR: :P 19:44:21 like half of special cases in crawl are sac hand already!!! 19:44:25 (the other half are vampires) 19:44:44 <|amethyst> introduce a one-handed race 19:44:45 elliptic: that doesn't make the choice trivial, I think. 19:44:52 <|amethyst> then it's not a ru special case anymore 19:44:53 |amethyst: don't say pirate, I dare you :) 19:44:56 <|amethyst> it's *general* 19:45:13 dpeg: sure, it isn't trivial, and it isn't useless... but it is also sort of disappointing as |amethyst said 19:45:18 <|amethyst> dpeg: pirate's a background, not a species, we don't give muts with backgrounds :P 19:45:36 I wonder if there's any way you could make a 1-handed race work 19:45:38 <|amethyst> dpeg: I was thinking "tentacle" in the Maniac Mansion sense 19:45:47 it's a race-as-slot-restriction, which feels like something we're moving away from 19:45:47 hm, I guess it's a personal thing, I never found it disappointing ... guess this kind of thing wires well with me 19:45:57 <|amethyst> dpeg: maybe ugly thing 19:45:58 ??dragonskin cloak 19:45:59 dragonskin cloak[1/2]: Tiamat's new +4 cloak after mean people took away her {GDA}. When worn, every hit has 50% chance to be affected as if you had 1 more dot in relevant resistances. 19:46:00 %git 699ebe1dff5dc83c1d85d58e026495561afa03a8 19:46:00 07kilobyte02 * 0.10-a0-1567-g699ebe1: Give Tiamat an unrand cloak instead of her GDA. 10(3 years, 3 months ago, 5 files, 61+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=699ebe1dff5d 19:46:05 "new" 19:47:17 dpeg: partly I think marvinpa doesn't like duplication because it provides a permanent bonus even after you abandon gozag 19:47:25 and current gozag wrath is fairly lame 19:48:23 of course other gods have permanent stuff like weapon branding too 19:49:06 (they do require spending more time with the god though) 19:49:25 gozag wrath is something we're fixing anyway 19:50:10 yeah, it should be addressed regardless 19:50:12 elliptic: I am short on time now, but I think there are better ways to deal with this than to remove an upfront choice. 19:51:26 it would be nice if there was some way to tweak duplication to make more non-consumables viable options 19:52:25 can't think of anything right now though 19:52:30 there is also not so difficult ways to punish you on the duplicated item type after abandonment 19:52:35 <|amethyst> make a mercenary with the item 19:52:45 <|amethyst> but I know you don't like allies, so... 19:52:49 my grammar, gotta sleep 19:53:27 especially don't like allies without the beogh/yred interlevel recall 19:53:30 <|amethyst> gozag wrath is instantaneous: all items already generated are turned to gold 19:53:53 including your equipment of course 19:53:57 <|amethyst> :) 19:54:17 <|amethyst> but also enemy equipment, sigmund is back on D:3 with three gold 19:54:21 <|amethyst> and naked 19:54:27 ew, naked old wizard 19:54:35 the most terrible wrath of all.... 19:54:49 imo also convert runes & orbs into gold 19:55:58 <|amethyst> hm, if you generated the level but didn't pick them up 19:56:14 <|amethyst> I guess you would have to exclude critical items :/ 19:56:19 what was the reason that Midas curse won't work? 19:57:13 <|amethyst> I'm unfamiliar with the details of the mechanic, but can you go back to visited levels and pick up junk to expire the wrath? 19:59:26 only if we're not clever 19:59:30 also, can you use it to earn money? 19:59:32 <|amethyst> elliptic: could have a semi-mundane (no item required) interlevel recall command with enough of a delay that it's not useful in emergencies 19:59:42 elliptic: if you get 1 gold piece? 20:00:04 1 gold piece per arrow you don't care about adds up to a lot of gold 20:00:12 I should both sleep and work right now, let me write something about this on c-r-d. (Or write yourself, I will reply.) 20:00:15 I was thinking, just plain one gp 20:00:31 <|amethyst> on the floor in front of you 20:00:51 like the problem is that if it gives you any amount of gold at all to go back to visited levels and pick up junk then this is bad 20:00:55 even if this doesn't expire the wrath 20:00:58 -!- XnMojo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:04 -!- smajdalf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:01:05 <|amethyst> Gozag says: "The contract is terminated, here is your severance package." 20:01:31 you could make it only apply to newly generated items and it might work 20:02:49 <|amethyst> hm, and then it's kind of automatically exploration-based 20:03:04 there's another issue too though: if it only happens when you actually touch the item (pick it up), then you will want to leave valuable stuff on the ground until the wrath ends 20:03:07 which is pretty bad 20:03:17 <|amethyst> elliptic: LOS? 20:03:29 yeah, LOS or generation on the level 20:03:34 <|amethyst> I guess there's the question of enemies 20:03:38 -!- johnstein has quit [Excess Flood] 20:03:45 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:45 <|amethyst> because it's kind of a bonus if they don't get equipment 20:04:04 <|amethyst> and if the do, it's a reservoir 20:04:08 <|amethyst> s/the/they/ 20:04:10 right... you could make it not happen to enemy equipment until the enemy dies, but then you want to park enemies with good equipment 20:04:15 <|amethyst> yeah 20:04:52 <|amethyst> I guess their equipment could be marked summoned and they could be given gold if they have a slot free (or not) 20:04:52 one option to deal with that is to make it not affect weapon/armour 20:05:08 or mark the items yes 20:05:42 this is all getting fairly complicated though and we haven't even started to worry about how to measure how long the wrath should last 20:06:05 <|amethyst> so I guess the immediate question is 20:06:17 <|amethyst> how much of a change is necessary to make it viable for release? 20:06:31 gozag is pretty weak 20:06:39 -!- Guest38177 has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:06:54 <|amethyst> would cutting costs in half change that? 20:07:05 |amethyst: of course! 20:07:13 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:23 |amethyst: so I haven't played gozag since before 0.15 release, but it didn't feel that far off releaseability then 20:07:30 PleasingFungus: btw, did you change shop placement? I had the feeling that they're now further away than they used to be (not as random as in the beginning, of course). 20:07:30 <|amethyst> IMO find a percentage and ship it 20:07:30 I don't know how much has changed since then 20:07:48 !lg greatplayers cv>=0.16-a !boring !zealot / won s=god o=% 20:07:50 879/7617 games for greatplayers (cv>=0.16-a !boring !zealot): 17/29x Jiyva [58.62%], 4/9x Wulndraste [44.44%], 65/168x Dithmenos [38.69%], 8/21x Beogh [38.10%], 103/323x Ashenzari [31.89%], 73/250x Vehumet [29.20%], 31/109x The Shining One [28.44%], 73/266x Makhleb [27.44%], 80/295x Ru [27.12%], 42/156x Trog [26.92%], 42/159x Qazlal [26.42%], 22/85x Sif Muna [25.88%], 32/157x Kikubaaqudgha [20.38%... 20:07:52 elliptic: stronger since back then: potions are better, for example 20:07:53 !won . gozag 20:07:53 elliptic (gozag) has won 4 times in 4 games (100.00%): 1xHOWn 1xHaFi 1xHuWn 1xSpWn 20:07:59 halberd: please not here 20:08:07 ok 20:08:17 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:08:39 gozag comes in at 12% in that query, ahead of only xom, pakellas, and no god 20:09:13 I am not happy with bribery in Snake, Zot (but I am with Elf, Vaults, Gehenna0. 20:10:04 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:10:46 -!- eternal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:56 dpeg: I don't remember changing shop placement, though I know we talked about it 20:11:10 halberd: that's not a great sample size. 20:14:51 -!- halberd has left ##crawl-dev 20:24:04 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:28:10 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:26 -!- mauris has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:28:40 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:36 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:32:33 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 20:36:59 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:11 -!- zerkmund1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:55 -!- wafflepants has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:41:54 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:43:10 -!- zerkmund1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:40 -!- eternal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:52 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:55 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:47:20 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:53:15 Item buggily placed at feature 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9462 by Xentronium 20:55:54 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:56:49 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:32 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:47 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:31 -!- eternal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:04:25 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:29 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 21:14:35 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:00 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:25 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:46 -!- anubisbafoobis has quit [Quit: anubisbafoobis] 21:33:24 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:35:05 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:58 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:55:46 -!- elmdor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:02 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:56:47 !lm . 21:56:48 12051. [2015-01-31 03:49:41] gammafunk the Demonologist (L22 HESu of Sif Muna) entered the Tomb of the Ancients on turn 31888. (Crypt:3) 21:57:12 wtf 21:57:14 quit already 21:57:25 I have only one ?tele and a *tele laj 21:57:33 so it might come to that 21:57:57 the worst part is 21:58:05 I can't even blame lasty because it's 0.15 21:58:11 haha 21:58:15 *tele doesn't spawn anymore 21:58:18 in 0.16 21:59:08 oh really 21:59:11 is that very recent? 21:59:13 ya 21:59:15 ah 21:59:15 I think I did that 21:59:27 well those were certainly annoying items for sure 22:01:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:02:57 but choices!!! 22:07:28 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:08:48 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:01 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:28:50 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:28:55 -!- ldierk has quit [Changing host] 22:28:55 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:54 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:38:10 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:26 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 22:41:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:02 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:46:27 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 22:46:31 -!- eternal_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:34 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:56 ??*tele 23:00:56 tele[1/2]: * is teleportitis, + is evocable teleport, - is no teleport (handy occasionally), and cTele is control teleport. 23:00:59 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:37 -!- elmdor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03:52 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:03 -!- olourkin has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:51 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:25 -!- XnMojo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:49 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:10:13 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:18:33 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:34 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:13 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-3855-gd2600ac (34) 23:26:38 -!- GiantOwl is now known as Kalir 23:26:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:26:56 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:22 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:45 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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