00:04:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3655-g786489f (34) 00:07:33 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:10:09 -!- culot_ is now known as culot 00:16:07 -!- Giratina548 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:36 -!- marsbars has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:22:05 Elemental Evocables go negative in Zigsprint 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9409 by Undo 00:25:27 -!- WalkerBoh is now known as Lasty 00:25:40 -!- Lasty is now known as caleba 00:25:48 -!- caleba is now known as WalkerBoh 00:25:55 -!- ruwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:50 -!- WalkerBoh is now known as caleba 00:30:06 -!- caleba is now known as WalkerBoh 00:36:54 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:38:56 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:38:56 The build has errored. (master - 59ca886 #1541 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/47207350 00:38:56 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:41:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:41:51 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:46:53 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:42 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:53:25 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:51 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:59:13 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:02:39 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 01:04:57 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:08:53 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:34 -!- ololoev has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:19:55 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:19:55 The build was fixed. (master - 4207e20 #1542 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/47209284 01:19:55 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:20:28 -!- Zanziabar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:21:39 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:24:11 COMMITS FOR THE COMMIT GOD! 01:24:26 03gammafunk02 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3607-g819caed: Document a dict loop that does key deletion 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=819caede53c2 01:24:26 03chequers02 {gammafunk} 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3608-g7fcbae6: Webtiles: ignore a few more files 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7fcbae6b3fa8 01:24:26 03chequers02 {gammafunk} 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3609-gf3e30d6: Webtiles: clean up conf.py 10(11 days ago, 1 file, 32+ 20-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3e30d6665c8 01:24:26 03gammafunk02 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3610-g76873fa: Reformat userdb.py 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 31+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=76873fafa99d 01:24:26 03chequers02 {gammafunk} 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3611-g95b2c98: Webtiles: add server janitors 10(7 weeks ago, 2 files, 17+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95b2c9878cdf 01:24:26 03chequers02 {gammafunk} 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3612-gd9bfad4: Webtiles: add janitor_commands 10(4 weeks ago, 3 files, 217+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9bfad44b8d9 01:24:26 03chequers02 {gammafunk} 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3613-ge1180ef: Webtiles: add dev_nicks_can_be_registered 10(11 days ago, 3 files, 19+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e1180efd24f2 01:24:26 03chequers02 {gammafunk} 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3614-g1427572: Webtiles: Update README 10(4 weeks ago, 4 files, 55+ 46-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1427572c0ae4 01:24:26 03gammafunk02 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3615-gbf41c7d: Properly exit when a configuration parsing error occurs 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf41c7dec336 01:24:26 03gammafunk02 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.16-a0-3616-gc935d2a: Asynchronously handle janitor commands and send results to the client 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 48+ 34-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c935d2acdf34 01:24:26 ... and 8 more commits 01:30:51 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:34:12 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:38 -!- pythonsnake1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:46:43 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:47:58 -!- schistosomatic is now known as schistosoma 01:48:34 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:54:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:54:17 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:54:17 The build was fixed. (master - 786489f #1543 : Nicholas Feinberg): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/47210014 01:54:17 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:58:48 -!- staplegun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:13 -!- speranza_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 02:03:11 !tell chequers Basic stuff for janitor commands is in, I did a lot of refactoring/rewriting of the handler and stuff related to config, but will have to generalize the source command like we talked about and maybe work out a simple ui template system 02:03:12 gammafunk: OK, I'll let chequers know. 02:04:21 -!- moocowpong1 has quit [Quit: moocowpong1] 02:08:47 Hurricos (L27 DEFE) ASSERT(!actor_at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 428 failed. (Zig:20) 02:10:22 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 02:14:20 -!- pikaro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:17:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20:09 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:21:02 -!- vissborg has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:21:26 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3655-g786489f (34) 02:21:57 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 02:32:38 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 02:32:38 The build has errored. (webtiles-changes - 2c4d7c1 #1544 : gammafunk): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/47214492 02:32:38 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 02:38:49 -!- pwnmonkey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:44:49 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:46:47 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51:39 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:01 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:00 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:12:03 -!- weezeface has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:44 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:30 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:42 -!- FuHanchu has quit [Quit: Sayonara, Zetsubou Sensei!] 03:20:29 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:24:33 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:40:40 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:39 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:49:35 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:51:46 -!- GameKnut has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:54:06 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 04:10:37 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 04:15:30 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:20:59 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:33:50 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:19 -!- bullock has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:01:51 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:10:43 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:12:05 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:28 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:16:36 -!- Ketsa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:17:18 -!- Zaba_ is now known as Zaba 05:34:33 <|amethyst> syneil is not me, no 05:34:35 <|amethyst> AFAIK 05:34:47 <|amethyst> I guess there could be some Tyler Durden thing going on 05:57:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:31 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 06:15:03 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:05 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:13 -!- pintc has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:28:18 -!- fearitself has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:32:45 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 06:36:03 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44:20 -!- cloud4ge has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:48:12 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:25 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:57:01 -!- halberd has quit [Changing host] 06:57:22 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:04:21 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 07:06:32 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:06:59 !seen grunt 07:06:59 I last saw Grunt at Fri Jan 16 05:48:01 2015 UTC (7h 18m 58s ago) saying 'if (GOD_XOM = you.religion)' on ##crawl-dev. 07:07:12 !tell grunt http://i.imgur.com/KzgwQLN.png 07:07:12 rockygargoyle: OK, I'll let grunt know. 07:07:20 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Client Quit] 07:08:18 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:08:58 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:10:29 -!- halberd has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:17:03 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:11 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 07:17:19 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:20 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1] 07:22:04 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:51 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:46 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:36 -!- Schizzik has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:37:16 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:38 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:52 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:53 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:44:08 -!- manman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:50:49 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:56:54 !tell gammafunk thanks for locking that garbage dump of a thread 07:56:54 Lasty_: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 08:06:15 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:47 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:11:02 -!- cloud4ge has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:16:11 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:02 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:23:40 -!- moocowpong1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:59 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:29:52 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:30:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:33:01 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:33:02 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 08:38:35 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:42 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:38:47 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 08:38:52 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:48:40 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:57 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:02 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:57:21 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:35 -!- Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 09:01:07 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:02:09 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:39 -!- Jho has quit [Client Quit] 09:06:59 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:19:18 -!- New2NH has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:24:52 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:25:56 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 09:28:33 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:28:39 -!- Sorbius has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:27 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:33:12 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35:01 %git 09:35:12 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3655-g786489f: De-scale exploration piety 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=786489fb3b6c 09:35:24 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:44:58 -!- Monkaria has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:46:12 Pikaro (L23 GrFi) ERROR in 'cloud.cc' at line 501: cloud flame in rock_wall at (39,37) (Vaults:5) 09:48:14 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3656-ga72e43a: Re-re-re-....fix *tele/-tele artefacts 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a72e43aedb06 09:48:53 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:55 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:53:23 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-3657-gc2d6eac: Add you.base_mp() clua. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2d6eac250bf 09:57:44 -!- bencryption has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:00:18 -!- jjin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:04:59 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 10:06:59 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:07 -!- ZRN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:26 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:07 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:43 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:13 -!- t4nk521 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:48:40 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:49:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:49:19 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:43 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:53:18 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 10:55:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:55:50 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:35 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:01:06 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:10 -!- pwnmonkey_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:54 -!- falu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1] 11:04:35 -!- FatShack has quit [Quit: Quit] 11:05:25 -!- FatShack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:11:49 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3657-gc2d6eac (34) 11:11:52 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:53 -!- [1]AtomikKrab is now known as AtomikKrab 11:13:51 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:14:08 -!- FatShack has quit [Quit: Quit] 11:14:49 -!- FatShack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:17:23 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:20:25 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:37:05 -!- domiryuu_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:37:23 -!- Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:49 -!- Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 11:39:12 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:10 -!- bcarpe211 has quit [Quit: ...] 11:44:43 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:47 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:37 -!- greensna1k is now known as greensnark 11:50:56 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:59 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-3658-g65668cc: Tweaked Dis floors. 10(2 weeks ago, 6 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65668cc88b75 12:00:59 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-3659-gb504317: A little bit more transparency for monster damage indicators. 10(2 weeks ago, 5 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b50431785cd7 12:09:00 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:10:14 roctavian moves in mysterious ways. 12:14:57 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:15 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:38 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:40 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:20 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:00 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:21 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:27 -!- Alarkh has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:27 -!- soonmide has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:56:17 -!- Jho has quit [Client Quit] 12:59:56 -!- Jho has quit [Client Quit] 13:03:51 -!- Jho has quit [Client Quit] 13:03:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:52 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:13:22 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:19 -!- Wah has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:09 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:39 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:25:19 -!- andrewhl has quit [Quit: andrewhl] 13:25:20 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:36 win 2 13:34:41 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:25 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:44 |amethyst: I'm following https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=setting_up_dgamelaunch_and_webtiles on my system so I can get the janitor commands in webtiles-changes tested/working on the cszo setup, but I get //lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0: error adding symbols: DSO missing from command line 13:40:52 when I compile dgamelaunch 13:41:09 /usr/bin/ld: dgamelaunch.o: undefined reference to symbol 'sem_post@@GLIBC_2.2.5' 13:41:15 was the ld error before that 13:41:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I guess modify the Makefile to add -lpthread ? 13:41:43 <|amethyst> IIRC someone reported that as a pull req on the github but I haven't looked at it 13:41:59 oh, that seemed to work, thanks :) 13:42:09 lots of gcc warnings, but it compiles 13:42:31 <|amethyst> s/looked at it/& thoroughly/ 13:43:25 hrm, you have me running su, as if I know if I have a root password! 13:43:58 I guess I should set one 13:44:23 sudo ought to be fine there 13:44:33 well said user can't sudo 13:44:40 crawl-dev namely 13:44:54 but I should know about my root password anyhow 13:44:59 <|amethyst> you need root to do some stuff 13:45:20 yeah but I was doing that through sudo -i -u root 13:45:32 from my account which can sudo 13:45:59 <|amethyst> su username -c sudo -i -u root :P 13:46:49 it's su-sudo chains all the way down 13:48:29 ??objstats 13:48:29 objstats ~ objstat[1/4]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a full debug console build of crawl ("make debug") to generate item/monster statistics by level/branch; see crawl -help for details 13:48:45 Lasty_: take a look at the stuff in objstat[2] first 13:48:49 to see if it has the output you need 13:49:07 yeah, I just loaded that up 13:49:10 it doesn't output a ton for artes at the moment, but I'm probably going to change that 13:49:13 I queried it in another window 13:49:46 aw dang, I gotta download openoffice on my work computer to read it 13:49:51 heh 13:50:03 yeah, tell Google to up their dang cell limitations 13:50:30 might just do one spreadsheet per levels I guess 13:51:02 maybe just upload the all-in-one ods/xls and have actual google calc workbooks for each sheet to get around that 13:51:13 I was checking to see how many triple swords are generated in a normal 3 rune game to answer a ##crawl question 13:51:28 ah, yeah. sadly I'm guessing "hardly any" 13:51:58 AGM: Always Go Maces 13:53:02 yeah, I'm pretty sure 13:53:36 oh hey, an xlsx version 13:54:09 Lasty_: 0.67 on average 13:54:23 well 0.71 counting artes 13:54:25 that's better than I guessed 13:54:33 I assumed something like 0.33 13:54:33 looks like range of 0-4 13:55:07 and doublesword is only 0.84 13:55:21 is there a stat for "number of games containing at least one"? 13:55:46 compared to....28.19 for greatmaces :/ 13:55:52 heh, well, yes 13:56:07 to be fair, great maces are more realistic for most characters 13:56:13 hrm, no I guess not; the range + sd was to kind of get at that 13:56:24 you could assume normality and get a decent estimate 13:58:30 Lasty_: assuming number of 3x-swords in a game is normal, probability of getting 1 or more is 0.3584892 13:58:48 maybe that's what your intuition was saying :) 13:58:50 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:58:58 sounds about right 13:58:58 ah, yeah, sounds about right 13:59:28 that's using the reported mean of 0.71, sd of 0.8 14:00:40 Huh. That means my intuition about the spawn rate for triple swords was almost dead on. Maybe I play too much crawl. 14:00:48 !gamesby Lasty 14:00:48 Lasty has played 254 games, between 2014-02-18 23:08:35 and 2015-01-13 02:57:00, won 57 (22.4%), high score 15388117, total score 142292179, total turns 8808459, play-time/day 2:00:43, total time 27d+15:57:42. 14:00:57 !gamesby HilariousDeathArtist 14:00:57 HilariousDeathArtist has played 2434 games, between 2012-03-01 22:03:53 and 2015-01-16 01:22:16, won 151 (6.2%), high score 16781910, total score 596551487, total turns 30777870, play-time/day 2:41:05, total time 117d+16:36:53. 14:01:09 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:33 amazingly, almost 10x fewer games yet similar play time/day 14:01:44 !gamesby HilariousDeathArtist start>=01-01-2015 14:01:45 HilariousDeathArtist (start>=01-01-2015) has played 31 games, between 2015-01-01 17:42:15 and 2015-01-16 01:22:16, won 12 (38.7%), high score 2387475, total score 21619518, total turns 1439270, play-time/day 6:25:50, total time 4d+6:53:34. 14:01:47 I tend to die slowly 14:02:01 yeah HDA has been....active recently 14:02:20 your addiction is not HDA stage yet 14:02:32 haha 14:02:39 Or my available free time :p 14:02:50 !gamesby . start>=01-01-2015 14:02:51 gammafunk (start>=01-01-2015) has played 29 games, between 2015-01-04 01:28:13 and 2015-01-16 08:18:35, won 1 (3.4%), high score 1456465, total score 2078325, total turns 260854, play-time/day 2:13:05, total time 1d+4:50:14. 14:02:53 especially now that I split my crawl time between playing and development 14:02:59 -!- marsbars has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:03:10 that win% is embarrassingly high 14:03:27 I will work on lowering that for my new years resolution 14:03:30 where are your standarsd?!?!! 14:03:56 Speaking of which, thanks again for locking that thread. Now there's a damiac thread about why that other thread was locked, of course. :p 14:04:02 haha 14:04:27 Lasty_: oh, we should get you and maybe some others interested in Sane Tavern Discussion mod rights 14:04:42 I am not even the most even-tempered person for that by a long shot 14:05:17 maybe you and PleasingFungus? I see wheals a bunch, but mostly to drop one-lineers 14:05:27 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:34 I would rather not be a mod 14:05:37 ty tho 14:06:05 gammafunk: I'd be interested in being a mod. 14:06:15 ok 14:06:19 I'll try to use my powers for good rather than evil. 14:06:23 but no promises. 14:07:15 if someone foists mod powers on me, I promise to only use my powers for evil 14:07:20 I Solemnly Swear I Am Up To No Good 14:07:24 dubious claim 14:07:36 mad mod powahs 14:07:51 Napkin: Would you mind giving Lasty mod rights for tavern when you can? We have one very good mod who's pretty active (and into), but he can't handle everything, and I try to stay out of too much of that because I'm known to be a bad person 14:08:01 (also I sincerely do not want any responsibility for that den of maniacs) 14:08:23 PleasingFungus: I know it'd be worse than managing a crawl thread on SA or something, right?! 14:08:37 I am not a mod there either 14:08:39 thank 14:08:41 god 14:08:45 heh 14:09:06 Every time I post I'm amazed at just how much effort it takes to post something that's both intelligent and concise 14:09:23 makes me like the Good Posters we have all that much more 14:09:57 we have some of those? 14:11:19 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:11:20 well mostly I'm thinking of bcadren 14:11:30 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:11:51 It's prophesied that he will one day return and usher us into an age of productive posts. 14:14:42 bcrawl is real 14:17:11 Real, and beautiful. 14:17:18 It's the fulfillment of all our ambitions. 14:17:52 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 14:19:51 gammafunk: are lucy_ferre, galehar and danr inactive? 14:20:30 I've not seen nos. 1 and 3 post in my time, and galehar has said he's stepping away, although he was active relatively recently 14:20:46 but iirc he did say he's stepping away 14:20:51 maybe I should go look that up 14:20:53 I haven't seen lucy_ferre or danr ever, to the best of my knowledge 14:21:36 njvack is the only relatively active mod who also has admin powers that i know of, yeah 14:22:42 -!- rockit has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 14:23:08 are you a responsible guy, Lasty? ;> 14:24:04 . . . pass? 14:24:06 :D 14:24:18 yeah, I'll try to be responsible. 14:25:01 ah, you are a dev! those guys are dangerous! 14:25:04 ;) 14:25:28 leaving "dungeon masters" as default group, ok, Lasty? 14:26:23 works for me 14:26:25 thanks 14:27:08 Okay, let's see. I'm a dev first, moderator second, player third, human being fourth? 14:27:29 hehe 14:29:32 Okay, so how do I use the command to ban all other posters? Just asking, no reason. <.< >.> 14:30:04 better post an ordinary announcement instead ;) 14:30:05 we're gonna have to send someone back in time to warn ourselves about this decision, aren't we 14:30:18 ontoclasm: Well, it's a shot anyway. 14:30:29 Lasty_: it's weird functionality, but if you choose the 'ban' option while selecting yourself, it'll ban everyone else instead. give it a shot! 14:30:39 Huh, makes sense! 14:31:12 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 14:35:33 -!- ibar has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:14 -!- Alazlam is now known as Sprort 14:36:39 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:06 suppose it's the same practical effect >.> 14:37:54 -!- XL28DgWn is now known as DrKe 14:38:32 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:43:37 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:44:34 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:46:36 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:31 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:50:52 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:28 -!- read has quit [Quit: bye.] 14:58:52 -!- Moredread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:23 -!- chequers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:00:30 -!- chequers has joined ##crawl-dev 15:01:01 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:20 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 15:09:00 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:13:13 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:53 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:14 -!- SpaceT has quit [Quit: SpaceT] 15:21:16 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:23:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:42 -!- Neodymium_ has quit [Client Quit] 15:31:21 !seen wheals 15:31:22 I last saw wheals at Fri Jan 16 19:25:20 2015 UTC (2h 6m 1s ago) quitting, saying 'Read error: Connection reset by peer'. 15:31:23 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:45:53 oh, no it doesn't 15:46:09 er, wc 15:51:36 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:52:07 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:12 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:52:22 !vault uniq_prince_ribbit 15:52:22 Can't find uniq_prince_ribbit. 15:52:27 !vault uniq_ribbit 15:52:28 Can't find uniq_ribbit. 15:54:03 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54:44 !vault ribbit 15:54:45 Can't find ribbit. 15:54:55 !vault uniq 15:54:55 Can't find uniq. 15:54:58 er 15:55:06 !vault uniq_asterion 15:55:07 1/1. http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des;hb=HEAD#l332 15:55:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:28 oh there are two 15:56:39 -!- pwnmonkey has joined ##crawl-dev 15:57:53 -!- pwnmonkey_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:58:11 yeah, he and mennas are the only ones with two vaults 15:59:14 <|amethyst> not counting the non-builder/uniques vaults 15:59:18 ya 15:59:25 hey guys xuaxua made a tavern post that reminded me of something terrible. is this a good time 15:59:33 um 15:59:36 go for it, I guess 15:59:50 the terrible thing is that some 1-handed weapons turn into 2-handed weapons when wielded by small species, and other ones don't 15:59:59 oh dear 16:00:24 -!- braveplstypus has quit [Client Quit] 16:00:29 the "unarmed is officially the best weapon" small species functionality 16:01:07 it sort of made sense when 1.5-handed weapons were a thing, now it's just a seemingly almost random set of weapons 16:01:13 <|amethyst> I see two ways to avoid that: 1. small species can never use a weapon and shield 2. small species can never not use a shield 16:01:29 I don't understand the second option 16:01:38 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: everything is 1H for small races 16:01:42 PleasingFungus: make all 1-handed weapons 2-handed for small races, I assume 16:01:47 <|amethyst> err 16:01:47 er 16:01:49 <|amethyst> right 16:01:49 other way around 16:01:49 <|amethyst> yeah 16:01:56 no he said the second option 16:02:05 <|amethyst> 1. is make all 1-h for the small, 2. is make all 2-h for the small 16:02:08 if they can never not use a shield, it's because all weapons are 1-h 16:02:14 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:02:15 <|amethyst> err, right 16:02:20 ok, got it 16:02:25 who's on first? 16:02:39 <|amethyst> Sorry, numbers larger than 1 confuse me 16:02:52 wow, I get confused by anything larger than 0 16:02:57 anyway, this sounds like a balance question 16:03:06 alternatively you could just let small races wield regular 2-handed weapons...i mean, they can wield quarterstaves/lajatangs, and that also makes no sense currently since the silly 1-handed staff thing is gone 16:03:11 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:56 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 16:04:13 ...they can use triple crossbows too. wtf 16:04:21 that one is specifically for kobolds 16:04:43 -!- Grasp has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:08 !apt Ha 16:05:08 Ha: Fighting: -1, Short: 3!, Long: 0, Axes: -1, Maces: -2, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -2, Slings: 4!, Bows: 2, Xbows: -1, Throw: 3!, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: -2*, Splcast: -3, Conj: -2, Hexes: -1, Charms: 1, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 1, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: -1, MP: 0 16:05:10 !apt Ko 16:05:11 Ko: Fighting: 1, Short: 3!, Long: -2, Axes: -1, Maces: 0, Polearms: -2, Staves: -1, Slings: 2, Bows: -1, Xbows: 2!, Throw: 3!, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 4, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: -1, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: -1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 3, Exp: 1!, HP: -2, MP: 0 16:05:19 yeah but I'm not sure it makes much since that Ko can wield it 16:05:22 *sense 16:05:29 oh no 16:05:31 the triple crossbow 16:05:33 doesn't make 16:05:35 much sense 16:05:37 not really sure that it's a balance concern 16:05:41 yeah? 16:05:51 if small races are blocked from using good bows, why can't they be blocked from using good crossbows too? 16:06:00 I think that's minmay's complaint, just a weird lack of consistency 16:06:04 <|amethyst> because the crossbow race is a small one 16:06:13 <|amethyst> but the bow races are larger 16:06:13 ^ 16:06:14 small races not being able to use 2h weapons is kind of silly 16:06:20 that's not a very good reason 16:06:25 <|amethyst> what about GC/GSC? 16:06:36 <|amethyst> if it's a problem for different races to be able to use different weapons 16:06:47 I believe the 'may is also on record as being against those, yes 16:06:59 I don't recall that 16:07:01 well those can only be used by two races 16:07:03 o 16:07:05 I'm only on record as being against Og having a positive maces apt 16:07:10 ok 16:07:10 yeah 16:07:11 2h weapons can be used by all but three races 16:07:22 I misremembered the details of your og complaint. I apologize 16:07:26 Bloax: four 16:07:28 two races, one of which probably never wants to use them and other which probably always wants to use them 16:07:29 which is 23 races because Fe is silly 16:07:33 the problem I have with this is not that spriggans can't wield exec axes 16:07:36 those species that can use GC/GSC, very large weapons, are giant species or w/e 16:07:56 it's that spriggans can wield triple crossbows and lajatangs, but not exec axes, even though those 3 look the same to any non-small race 16:07:59 I'm pretty sure they aren't any larger than e.g. centaurs for any purposes 16:08:03 spriggans cannot wield triple crossbows. 16:08:19 wow that's even worse 16:08:22 lol 16:08:25 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:08:26 they can wield arbalests but not triple crossbows... 16:08:34 I'd have to check what they can use 16:08:46 there are a decent number of weapons that small races can use but tiny can't, or whatever the terrible size names are 16:08:48 small but not little? 16:08:49 oh, or naga 16:08:52 this is like being able to wield a glaive but not a bardiche 16:08:59 they're the same size as og/na/ce 16:09:08 er, ce/na/tr 16:09:18 not only are arbalest and triple crossbow the same handedness for every other race in the game, they're in the same weapon class! 16:09:34 though I guess that complaint also applies to spear vs. every other polearm 16:09:57 can sp not use tridents? 16:10:04 they can use tridents but tridents are 2-handed for them 16:10:05 spears are not 16:10:15 brilliant 16:10:19 oh, spears are 2-handed for them now, actually 16:10:25 yes 16:10:34 <|amethyst> but that difference holds for kobolds 16:10:40 !apt Sp 16:10:41 Sp: Fighting: -2*, Short: 1, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -3*, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 1, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -3*, UC: -2*, Splcast: 2, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 2, Charms: 4!, Summ: -2, Nec: -1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 0, Evo: 4!, Exp: -1, HP: -3, MP: 3! 16:10:41 haha 16:10:41 it's kobolds/halflings where spears are 1-handed 16:10:42 yeah 16:10:48 ??spear 16:10:48 spear[1/1]: (polearms; +4 acc / 6 dam / 1.1 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A hunting weapon consisting of a wooden shaft with a pointed metal head fastened on one end. 16:11:04 wanna use a worse cutlass at -3 polearms instead of +1 short blades? 16:11:10 spriggans are smaller than ko/ha? 16:11:11 sure go ahead it's also two-handed ;) 16:11:15 yes 16:11:15 i remembered a kilobyte commit stopping some small Fi from starting with a spear since "they'll have to drop the shield when they upgrade" or something 16:11:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes 16:11:24 gammafunk: yes 16:11:28 gammafunk: yes 16:11:32 <|amethyst> gammafunk: spriggans are the size of felids 16:11:37 <|amethyst> but those are irrelevant here 16:11:47 eveningstars are 2h for spriggans, 1h for everyone else. likewise longswords, scimitars, demon blades, eudaemon blades, war axes, and spears. double swords, broad axes, and tridents/demon tridents/trishulas are 2h for spriggans, halflings, and kobolds. 16:12:06 weapon restrictions are rather silly 16:12:14 especially since for the races they exist for 16:12:21 since those already have a pretty specific niche 16:12:29 (they are good at stabbing holy shit) 16:13:04 I doubt there would be a sudden glut of axe spriggans or polearm halflings if you just gave them the same weapon restrictions as normal size races 16:13:20 and even if there was 16:13:27 they would not suddenly be Mi 16:13:49 because their stats and apts suck for the purpose 16:13:58 !apt ha long_blades 16:13:59 Could not understand "long_blades" 16:14:02 !apt ha long blades 16:14:02 Ha (SK_LONG_BLADES)=0 16:14:13 !apt Mi long blades 16:14:13 Mi (SK_LONG_BLADES)=2! 16:14:18 !stats HaFi 16:14:19 Starting stats for HaFi: Str 16 Int 7 Dex 13. Stat gain: d/5 16:14:20 !stats MiFi 16:14:21 Starting stats for MiFi: Str 20 Int 5 Dex 9. Stat gain: sd/4 16:14:39 halflings are strong these days huh 16:14:46 -!- Earlo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:49 !stats SpFi 16:14:50 Starting stats for SpFi: Str 12 Int 9 Dex 15. Stat gain: id/5 16:14:57 yeah, someone wanted them to be the "heavy armour small race" or something, so now they don't have EV 16:15:09 !apt Sp axes 16:15:10 Sp (SK_AXES)=-2 16:15:22 -20% damage -4 apt vs. minotaurs 16:15:23 minmay: mountain dwarves live....... 16:15:27 10/10 would axespriggan again 16:15:35 (we don't talk about HO) 16:15:37 oh my god you are an idiot 16:15:40 <|amethyst> longbowspriggan? 16:15:52 !apt sp charms 16:15:53 Sp (SK_CHARMS)=4! 16:15:56 "-20% damage" 16:15:59 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:15:59 10/10 would axespriggan again 16:16:55 didn't you know, at 20 str you do 100% damage and from there it's 5 percentage points for every point of str 16:17:42 I guess letting them wield weapons normally would make long blade halflings and mace kobolds better but that's about the only balance change I can see coming from it 16:18:11 !apt tr 16:18:12 Tr: Fighting: -2*, Short: -2, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -1, Polearms: -2, Staves: -2, Slings: -4*, Bows: -4*, Xbows: -4*, Throw: -1, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -4*, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: -5*, Conj: -3*, Hexes: -4*, Charms: -4*, Summ: -3*, Nec: -2, Tloc: -3*, Tmut: -3, Fire: -3*, Ice: -3*, Air: -4*, Earth: -1, Poison: -3*, Inv: -1*, Evo: -2*, Exp: -1, HP: 3!, MP: -2* 16:18:31 circling back toward the original topic: one of the current defining characteristics of small races is a limited ability to adapt to found loot. (specifically weapons.) it would also make them feel much more similar to other races, of course. 16:18:43 the problem with the "make all 1-handed weapons 2-handed for small races" approach is that it would result in more conjurations spriggans, and is that really what you want 16:18:53 sure 16:18:58 sounds good 16:19:26 PleasingFungus: well they already have that with regard to most weapons because most of their weapon skills are never going to get trained because their apts are super biased towards 1 or 2 16:19:52 PleasingFungus: and sbl and staves wouldn't change at all 16:20:25 !apt ha 16:20:25 Ha: Fighting: -1, Short: 3!, Long: 0, Axes: -1, Maces: -2, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -2, Slings: 4!, Bows: 2, Xbows: -1, Throw: 3!, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: -2*, Splcast: -3, Conj: -2, Hexes: -1, Charms: 1, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 1, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: -1, MP: 0 16:20:35 wtf @ that polearm apt... 16:20:44 jesus christ, they really still have +4 slings 16:20:53 physics, it's harder to wield long sticks when you are short 16:21:14 skills do incredible things 16:21:14 <|amethyst> kvaak: unless you hold them at the middle 16:21:15 the axes apt is usable but the rest, yeah, not great 16:21:19 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:20 <|amethyst> kvaak: (qstaves, lajatangs) 16:21:27 !apt ko 16:21:27 Ko: Fighting: 1, Short: 3!, Long: -2, Axes: -1, Maces: 0, Polearms: -2, Staves: -1, Slings: 2, Bows: -1, Xbows: 2!, Throw: 3!, Armour: -2, Dodge: 2, Stealth: 4, Shields: -2, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: -1, Hexes: 0, Charms: -2, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: 0, Tmut: -1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 0, Earth: 0, Poison: 0, Inv: 1, Evo: 3, Exp: 1!, HP: -2, MP: 0 16:21:32 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:13 PleasingFungus: the "make all 2-handed weapons unusable for small races, and keep all 1-handed weapons 1-handed for small races" would be closer to preserving the current balance probably, but it does remove staves chars entirely 16:22:48 also removes crossbow kobolds 16:22:52 (considering str weights then -8 str would probably be about -14% damage on average in practice) 16:23:07 what is it with you and crossbow kobolds man 16:23:17 !apt xbos 16:23:17 Could not understand "xbos" 16:23:19 !apt xbows 16:23:20 Xbows: Ko: 2!, Te: 1, Mi: 1, DD: 1, Ce: 1, Op: 0, HE: 0, Hu: 0, Sp: 0, Gr: 0, Fo: 0, Gh: -1, HO: -1, VS: -1, Ha: -1, Na: -1, Dr: -1, Dg: -1, Ds: -1, DE: -1, Mf: -2, Vp: -2, Mu: -2, Og: -3, Tr: -4*, Fe: N/A 16:23:28 what about the poor bow spriggans that have like a +3 apt and can only wield shortbows 16:23:28 they're the only race about crossbows 16:23:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: to be fair, could shift orcs from throwing to crossbows 16:23:40 !apt sp 16:23:40 Sp: Fighting: -2*, Short: 1, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -3*, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 1, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -3*, UC: -2*, Splcast: 2, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 2, Charms: 4!, Summ: -2, Nec: -1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 0, Evo: 4!, Exp: -1, HP: -3, MP: 3! 16:23:45 Bloax: the majority of races are about crossbows 16:23:51 ....why do they have +2 bows 16:24:01 whatever 16:24:03 spriggans 16:24:07 PleasingFungus: because they're like tiny elves and elves are good with bows 16:24:11 ya I figured 16:24:17 <|amethyst> but elves are bad with slings! 16:24:27 |amethyst: yeah but tiny things are good with slings remember 16:24:34 you gotta get inside the head of the designer. 16:24:44 unfortunately, the designer is like forty people across fifteen years. 16:24:45 it's like david/goliath except with less david and goliath 16:24:58 and more little people = good with slings 16:25:05 and 'getting insider their head' involves developing prodromal schizophrenia. 16:25:19 yeah like imagine a spriggan shooting bloax in the head with a slingshot 16:25:27 remove old races made by many people, add new races made by one person 16:25:32 (this only works if you imagine bloax as weighing like 200kg which i do) 16:25:41 rude 16:25:48 (ok that was kind of mean) 16:25:59 (i am actually semi-muscular and floating around 90 kg) 16:26:08 <|amethyst> why is this a problem for weapons and not armour restrictions? It seems there are more different kinds of the latter per-race than the former 16:26:20 jealous, i weigh 58kg 16:26:45 that's tragic 16:26:46 armour restrictions are much better communicated 16:26:49 <|amethyst> you might be allowed to use everything, or soft armour a cloak and a hat, or everything but body armour, or just a hat, ... 16:26:52 as far as kobolds and halflings go they're human 16:27:03 |amethyst: body armour restrictions are pretty consistent; if your torso is not normal size, you can wear robes and animal hides/armours 16:27:23 but... ko/ha aren't normal 16:27:33 er, normal or small, yes 16:27:55 <|amethyst> oh, I don't disagree that the weapon stuff is inconsistent and should be changed and better expressed 16:28:02 whereas you have 4 different levels of being able to wield weapons depending on size 16:28:05 <|amethyst> I just don't see why we need to go down to two levels of items 16:28:22 imo bring back 1.5 handed weapons 16:28:23 <_< 16:28:36 (I suspect some of these restrictions made more sense when those were a thing) 16:28:39 I think that's what he's suggesting, yes 16:28:48 well 16:28:59 <|amethyst> 1.5 without a bonus if you use it 1h when you don't have to 16:29:02 yeah, IIRC when 1.5-handed existed, 1.5-handed weapons were two-handed weapons for small races, and 1-handed weapons were 1-handed weapons for small races 16:29:02 hopefully not the part where they're more or less useful without/with a shield 16:29:15 <|amethyst> possibly also 16:29:21 <|amethyst> make it consistent per weapon type 16:29:41 1.5-handed without the part where they're more or less useful without/with a shield is *literally exactly what we have right now and the reason i started this conversation* 16:30:01 (except for the crossbow and staff things but forget about that) 16:30:13 <|amethyst> without a distinction between little and small 16:30:37 the only distinction between little and small is for triple crossbows isn't it 16:30:42 <|amethyst> spears 16:30:43 no 16:30:47 <|amethyst> other stuff 16:30:56 oh, right 16:31:03 the distinction is that weapons that aren't staves or short blades are completely worthless 16:31:04 eveningstars are 2h for spriggans, 1h for everyone else. likewise longswords, scimitars, demon blades, eudaemon blades, war axes, and spears. double swords, broad axes, and tridents/demon tridents/trishulas are 2h for spriggans, halflings, and kobolds. 16:31:18 jesus christ shut up bloax 16:31:24 you have contributed nothing to this conversation 16:31:24 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:31:35 you don't want me to 16:31:41 it's really weapons that aren't staves, short blades, or long blades are completely worthless 16:31:45 eveningstar/double sword is particularly weird and rathe frustrating when you play Ha :( 16:31:45 but yeah 16:31:49 *rather 16:32:19 well i guess maces are okay on ko if you like shields 16:33:00 making smaller races able to wield all the things normal races can wield wouldn't disturb some slumbering balance god that would wreck armageddon upon the world 16:33:11 and this is very evident because these races already suck at those weapons pretty hard 16:33:14 but no 16:33:24 i don't contribute anything to this discussion if we cut that part out 16:33:34 which you apparently want to do 16:33:38 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:48 because bloax only comes up with retarded shit 16:33:54 pretty much, yes 16:33:58 *nod* 16:34:55 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 16:35:22 |amethyst: it doesn't mean going down to 2 levels of items if you make all 2-handers impossible for small races to wield, or make all weapons 2-handed for small races 16:35:23 I'm not particularly sure where you came up with the idea -2 on a weapon skill makes it terrible and/or unusable 16:35:26 but I disagree 16:35:52 kvaak: it makes it pointless to use when you have other damage skills with much higher apts 16:36:02 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:16 <|amethyst> minmay: all weapon 2h for small races I would almost go for, but that makes shields useless for those races 16:36:22 of course you can find some insanely good axe as a merfolk and still want to use it, but it's not something that happens significantly often 16:36:36 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-3660-g8c25847: New book tiles. 10(5 minutes ago, 38 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c25847ed569 16:36:36 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-3661-g910cf96: Nikola, Snorg tile edits. 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=910cf96a29b1 16:36:40 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:39 |amethyst: sounds like a good step towards getting rid of size-based shield penalties to me 16:37:50 I'm not really sure how the difference between -2 and 0 is the same as -2 and +4 but sure 16:38:07 <|amethyst> what about all weapons 2h for small races except for sbl and certain launchers? 16:38:28 <|amethyst> (blowguns and/or slings) 16:38:39 |amethyst: then you haven't fixed anything...you're just moving some of the seemingly arbitrary set of weapons around 16:38:49 well if you don't want to use short blades on the small races you're saying goodbye to instakills (because why wouldn't use train stealth while using short blades) and all the experience you could have spent not on using barely better weapons 16:39:11 <|amethyst> minmay: what makes it more arbitrary than other distinctions, like what's 1h vs 2h in the first place? 16:39:24 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:27 <|amethyst> minmay: I agree that it is not communicated well 16:39:30 |amethyst: players can tell what's 1h vs 2h in the first place by playing almost any race in the game 16:40:08 -!- inspector071 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:10 |amethyst: it's really weird that 2 weapons that are the same for humans are suddenly different from each other for small races 16:41:33 |amethyst: G(S)Cs are weird in this sense too, of course, but it's very obvious how they work since you see dozens of "ogre" enemies wielding them 16:42:36 <|amethyst> whereas enemies, particularly those, rarely have shields 16:43:00 yes, and also the list is 10 weapons long instead of 2 weapons that are obviously the same size 16:43:16 <|amethyst> well, my suggestion was to make the list one or two weapon classes 16:43:48 <|amethyst> (or three if you did both blowguns and slings) 16:44:28 <|amethyst> which doesn't feel to me like more of a cognitive burden than the GSC situation but maybe I'm wrong 16:44:38