00:00:12 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:47 horrible nerfs 00:02:14 (how does a tree fumble in water??) 00:02:29 awkwardly? 00:03:00 (I just meant that glows_light is for invis or whatever and not for anything related to darkness?) 00:03:44 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:04:12 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:17 glows light is also for cornea! 00:04:34 corneas. 00:05:03 there isn't even a second o in cornea 00:05:04 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 00:06:33 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:36 s/cornea/corona/ 00:06:54 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:06:57 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 00:07:15 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:23 -!- shammancer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:07:24 reaverb: that seems like kind of a huge grey drac nerf 00:07:28 if I'm understanding it correctly 00:07:53 PleasingFungus: grey drac still had the slow movement thing before this commit and after it. 00:08:03 Which seemed way more relevant to me. 00:08:12 I mean 00:08:14 uhhh 00:08:17 i'm confused 00:08:33 their whole gimmick is that they can move through deep water, basically (not a great gimmick but there you go) 00:08:45 they don't fly, so they're slow, but they can still operate there 00:08:55 except now they can't really 00:09:02 for some reason this doll tile won't display and i don't know why 00:09:29 you also nerfed the hell out of ogres and trolls 00:09:49 their ability to not fumble in deep water is actually very useful 00:09:53 poorly communicated, but useful 00:10:42 not every troll and ogre (and naga) has flight for the lair water branch, so, yeah 00:10:46 I am going to revert this, unless you strongly object. 00:10:53 @ reaverb 00:11:27 -!- axujen has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:12:30 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:12:43 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:12:45 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:23 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3057-g4aec31c (34) 00:13:25 PleasingFungus: Sorry my connect is terrible, I didn't see anything after my reply sent. 00:13:42 Pleasingfungus: Feel free to revert it, you obviously feel more strongly about this than me. 00:13:54 s/connect/connection/ 00:14:43 it is true that it should be communicated better 00:14:47 its really bizarre that it affected ogres and trolls 00:14:49 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:14:50 i didn't know that it also applied to ogres and trolls 00:15:01 er, i really worded that badly 00:15:19 i meant gray drac if anything 00:15:24 I remember reading a spoiler mentioning it ages ago 00:15:32 I think it was in reference to their size 00:15:38 yes, theyre larger so they dont fumble 00:15:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3058-g6f20637: Revert "Don't special-case some actors to not fumble in water" 10(6 minutes ago, 6 files, 38+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f20637e3f7b 00:16:05 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:20 tbh it's just nagas that surprise me 00:16:26 nagas too yes 00:16:48 for a long time i thought nagas were amphibious, not like merfolk but still had normal move in water 00:16:56 I might remove the naga thing specifically 00:17:02 since that one seems less necessary & less sensical 00:17:32 PleasingFungus: Besides this being a "nerf" any other reasons you disliked that change? 00:17:51 did that change affect monsters 00:17:54 (Since obviously some other compensation could have been adding.) 00:17:55 simmarine: it did 00:18:17 reaverb: I think it's good and cool for ogres & trolls & gray draconians not to have to worry about shallow water. 00:18:40 antaeus nerf 00:18:41 it's thematic and tactically distinctive. 00:18:46 simmarine: what 00:18:57 and in gray draconians' case, very relevant to their whole gimmick. 00:19:01 (rip the stupid tail-slap thing) 00:19:05 if it affected monsters, surely it wouldve affected things like antaeus 00:19:56 it only affected monsters that were size large+ but couldn't move through deep water 00:20:04 which is to say, size large 00:20:08 or I guess also big 00:20:10 monster sizes are dumb 00:20:11 oh yes looking at it, it didnt change every actual monster 00:20:16 monster sizes are really dumb 00:20:19 PleasingFungus: Wouldn't the slow move mean those species want to worry about shallow water? 00:20:26 stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 70-103 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 1423 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 00:20:26 %??stone giant 00:20:30 cyclops (08C) | Spd: 7 | HD: 9 | HP: 35-65 | AC/EV: 5/3 | Dam: 35 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 530 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 00:20:30 %??cyclops 00:20:36 they don't have to worry about fighting while in shallow (or, in the case of grey dracs, deep) water. 00:21:02 fr size words scale 00:21:03 it should definitely be communicated better, but it really does matter tactically, and it's a neat effect. 00:21:51 PleasingFungus: I went them to die in the water though 00:21:52 maybe alter the nigh-useless "moving in this stuff is going to be slow" message 00:21:54 .elrank 00:21:55 1257 games for * (br=lair lvl>2 lvl<8 kmap!~entry kmap!~uniq kmap!~special_ kmap!~altar kmap!=): 73x bobbens_ice_dragon_lair, 70x gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake, 57x ice2_lemuel, 48x dpeg_oklob_gauntlet, 47x dragon1_lemuel, 42x forest_paths, 41x minmay_lindwurm_lava, 36x minmay_lair_drake_nest, 35x kilobyte_rumbling_trees, 33x worms_lemuel, 33x grunt_megastairs_2, 30x minmay_lair_end_frog_pond, 30x... 00:21:59 we're just so close 00:22:07 ontoclasm: we were talking about making that one red 00:22:13 a month or two back 00:22:25 since new players don't pay nearly enough attention to it 00:22:31 gammafunk: won't I overtake you eventually anyway 00:22:33 a status li- 00:22:36 the fumbling thing is just communicated poorly for *everyone*. 00:22:38 !banish simmarine 00:22:38 PleasingFungus casts a spell. simmarine is devoured by a tear in reality! 00:22:40 which one are you? 00:22:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:48 (technically, it's already a status light) 00:22:57 the hive vaults I'm glacially working on 00:23:10 !glaciate theTower 00:23:10 PleasingFungus gestures at theTower while chanting. PleasingFungus conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs theTower! 00:23:15 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:20 I guess I am lowering their weights in anticipation 00:23:29 I guess they could, but are these float vaults for lair? 00:23:40 PleasingFungus: well i guess it's an important deal but it also gets printed every single time you step into water 00:23:48 and anyhow they'd be kind of like a special room 00:23:55 ontoclasm: yeah, that's the tricky part 00:24:06 autoexplore in swamp and you get like ahundred messages 00:24:06 as opposed to generic lair vault 00:24:10 maybe make the actual "you fumble" message more obviously different from "you miss" 00:24:29 alternately, change the mechanic in some way 00:24:57 swamp worms are terrible and bad 00:24:58 PleasingFungus: I'm kind of confused you stating this "really does matter tactially" when several people didn't know which species it applied to. Is it "matter if you know about it and can exploit it" ? 00:25:16 gammafunk: not really, since there's a lot of lair monsters and terrain divergence from special rooms 00:25:19 Exploit is a strong term. 00:25:31 It's not like you're going to be seeking out shallow water to fight in. 00:25:33 they're distinctly non-generic 00:25:44 Bloax: swamp worms have nothing to do with anything...? 00:25:44 I think what you're making will just place lots more monsters 00:25:54 they'd be kind of their own class 00:26:00 PleasingFungus: swamp is terrible to autoexplore because of them 00:26:00 :P 00:26:00 s/exploit/account for/ 00:26:08 surely they're completely irrelevant 00:26:12 reaverb: crawl has a distressing number of very important mechanics that no one knows anything about. For example, noise. 00:26:14 or, combat. 00:26:21 !lg * swamp s=killer recent 00:26:22 skill points 00:26:22 mine places like 3 + some eels + 2 nasty things, so if they're comparable to that, then sure! 00:26:22 2829 games for * (swamp recent): 220x a thorn hunter, 186x the 27-headed Lernaean hydra, 173x a spriggan rider, 167x a spriggan druid, 160x an alligator, 132x, 117x an eight-headed hydra, 101x a seven-headed hydra, 89x a swamp dragon, 89x a shambling mangrove, 82x a giant leech, 65x Jorgrun, 64x a six-headed hydra, 55x a bog body, 52x a five-headed hydra, 50x Aizul, 47x a raven, 44x a red wasp, 38... 00:26:30 thats a lot of lernaean games 00:26:43 sorry for making him more common 00:26:45 !send gammafunk very nasty things 00:26:45 Sending very nasty things to gammafunk. 00:26:46 that's a lotta thorn hunters 00:26:47 good thorn hunter rate though 00:26:51 !lg * current trunk s=killer 00:26:53 154738 games for * (current trunk): 22404x, 8600x a gnoll, 8372x an adder, 6573x an orc priest, 6046x a hobgoblin, 5080x a kobold, 4925x an orc wizard, 4849x a jackal, 4312x an ogre, 3628x Sigmund, 3399x a worm, 3307x an orc warrior, 3303x an orc, 2965x a goblin, 2895x a giant gecko, 2254x a centaur, 1915x Grinder, 1566x a worker ant, 1543x a killer bee, 1375x Crazy Yiuf, 1168x Terence, 1138x Prin... 00:26:56 oops 00:26:56 yeah, it's pretty easy for a mechanic to actually affect win rate and play style without the player even noticing 00:26:57 arent thorn hunters like stone giants 00:26:58 !lg * current trunk s=killer swamp 00:26:59 637 games for * (current trunk swamp): 50x a thorn hunter, 48x the 27-headed Lernaean hydra, 37x a spriggan druid, 37x a spriggan rider, 34x an alligator, 30x, 24x an eight-headed hydra, 23x a seven-headed hydra, 22x a swamp dragon, 22x a shambling mangrove, 18x a giant leech, 18x a six-headed hydra, 17x Jorgrun, 12x a bog body, 11x a raven, 10x Aizul, 10x a swamp worm, 10x a red wasp, 9x Asterion... 00:26:59 tisk tisk 00:27:04 just because there are so many mechanics involved 00:27:09 !lg * current trunk swamp s=cikiller 00:27:10 thorn hunter (16f) | Spd: 12 (swim: 120%) | HD: 15 | HP: 80-117 | AC/EV: 9/9 | Dam: 27, 23 | 03plant, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 2120 | Sp: v.thorns (3d18) [11!AM, 06!sil], w.brambles [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 00:27:10 %??thorn hunter 00:27:10 637 games for * (current trunk swamp): 77x a hydra, 65x a spriggan druid, 53x the Lernaean hydra, 50x a thorn hunter, 34x a spriggan rider, 31x an alligator, 30x, 29x a shambling mangrove, 21x a swamp dragon, 17x Jorgrun, 16x a giant leech, 12x a bog body, 10x Aizul, 10x a swamp worm, 10x Asterion, 9x Mara, 9x a hydra simulacrum, 8x Nikola, 8x Wiglaf, 7x the player character, 7x a spriggan berserk... 00:27:11 slightly above asterion, heh 00:27:13 stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 70-103 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 1423 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 00:27:13 %??stone giant 00:27:23 speed 12 stone giant 00:27:33 also, immune to a bunch of stuff, has sinv 00:27:39 Also the fact they trap with brambles. 00:27:41 but rF-! 00:27:44 So you can't escape easily. 00:27:49 is that actually relevant? 00:27:52 I've never found it to be. 00:28:06 I found it really relevant on my SpEns 00:28:08 they don't really try to trap you, anyway, iirc - they try to block you from them with brambles. 00:28:14 actually 00:28:32 the thorn hunter tries to guess if you're moving closer or away from it 00:28:36 ! 00:28:36 No players. 00:28:38 crawl ai..... 00:28:40 good 00:28:46 I distinctly remember this 00:28:52 it was supposedly a pain to make 00:29:06 Yeah, there are two differant patterns it moves the brambles in. 00:29:08 Bloax: I had a plan to change swamp worm AI & make them amphibious - ambush predators, sort of like trapdoor spiders 00:29:13 time to game thorn hunter ai from now on 00:29:14 it is one of the few thorns remaining in mon-abil 00:29:33 anyway, the important bit is that stone giants aren't in a lair branch but thorn hunters don't appear 20 times a game in vaults and depths 00:29:41 "hooray" 00:29:48 actually originally I wanted to make them undead (because of Myth: the Fallen Lords), but people shot me down iirc 00:29:55 very hurtful :( 00:30:04 are you a shrike 00:30:08 (like, shambling corpses lurking underwater) 00:30:08 !hurt PleasingFungus 00:30:20 fr !random 00:30:51 pleasingfungus: actuallly, I'm vaguely unfond of trapdoor spiders >_> 00:31:34 (but mostly because those lack a second trick) 00:31:48 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:32:25 I wonder how just making swamp worms amphibious with no other changes would work. 00:32:58 vampiric leeches are basically that 00:33:02 just stronger 00:33:11 vampiric leech band 00:33:28 i'd have to redraw them!!! 00:33:35 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:35 vampiric leeches also have the weird rot/vampiric melee? 00:33:49 er i dont think either of them have rot 00:34:02 rot was lost from vampiric like 00:34:05 four versions ago 00:34:09 amphibous swamp worms would not be the solution 00:34:21 amphibious and no other change, that is 00:34:32 theTower: Oh, good! 00:34:37 since you can't kite 'squitos I'm not sure how one doesn't notice it... 00:34:38 I just read through http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-8-december-2014 - these changes sound great =)))) 00:35:08 hrm, we must have miswritten it then 00:35:12 !banish gammafunk 00:35:12 PleasingFungus casts a spell. gammafunk is devoured by a tear in reality! 00:35:14 gammafunk: anyway I will crush your hopes and dreams eventually in some more palatable manner 00:35:15 zxc232: thanks! :) 00:35:39 theTower: you can't, I just need to 1) claim the top spot at some point and 2) be in the top vaults 00:36:04 oh that's all it is 00:36:48 oh, rip orange rats 00:37:12 rip 00:37:14 couldn't they have been hell rats without the demon part 00:37:14 hello hell rats? 00:37:44 hmm 00:37:46 hell hound (10h) | Spd: 15 | HD: 5 | HP: 18-37 | AC/EV: 6/13 | Dam: 13 | 05demonic, see invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 08blind, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 146 | Sp: fire breath (3d10) [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath] | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 00:37:46 %??hell hound 00:37:48 orange rat (04r) | Spd: 12 | HD: 3 | HP: 10-23 | AC/EV: 7/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | evil | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 34 | Sz: little | Int: animal. 00:37:48 %??orange rat 00:37:56 ehhhhh 00:38:02 one of my favorite crawl trivia questions was always: guess what corpse delivery always gives you in the vestibul? 00:38:06 (briefly thinking of pentagram) 00:38:10 no one ever guessed correctly 00:38:14 gammafunk: Hell hogs? 00:38:18 orange rats 00:38:18 "nothing"? 00:38:28 orange frickin rats 00:38:35 enjoy bottling that mr vp 00:38:40 I edited the list recently 00:38:46 well, resorted 00:38:58 hell hog (04h) | Spd: 14 | HD: 11 | HP: 49-73 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 20 | 05demonic | Res: 06magic(40), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 830 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d5) [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 00:38:58 %??hell_hog 00:39:08 too bad, also poisonous 00:39:25 I wonder if I could slip in a few hell rats into tendril chambers 00:39:34 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:34 The build has errored. (master - 4aec31c #1052 : reaverb): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43434038 00:39:34 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 00:39:36 probably have to fit them into evil forest, anyway 00:39:40 don't see why not; don't they already generate in lair? 00:39:45 or were they changed beyond just the name 00:40:03 well, I intend to nerf the vault a little so 00:40:11 Well I've found orange rats pretty irrelevant in the Lair, I don't know why they would be in Extended <_< 00:40:43 they're in extended because extended has a lot of fodder and what no vestibule isn't extended 00:40:48 theyre not always irrelevant in lair 00:40:52 I'm not sure that they even have a non-zero weighting 00:40:53 also yes that 00:40:56 for e.g. vestibul 00:40:56 they hit quite hard honestly 00:41:06 fast move, good defensive stats, come in packs 00:41:07 orange cannon 00:41:21 I'd rather see more of those and less green rats 00:41:28 lair is absolutely infested with green rats 00:41:29 you want more draining in lair??? 00:41:40 well maybe fewer r overall 00:41:50 maybe if there was one orange rat per green rat band or something silly 00:42:09 if green rats made noises they'd be more of a threat 00:42:12 there's just so many and you just tab through them mindlessly 00:42:25 and then when you want to eat them, you have 15 single-chunk corpses 00:42:39 simmarine: Maybe I'm misremebering. I've never died to them, though. 00:42:56 !lg reaverb killer~~rat s=killer 00:42:56 No games for reaverb (killer~~rat). 00:43:02 obviously we should replace green rats 00:43:06 with d:1 fodder 00:43:06 !lg . killer~~rat s=killer 00:43:07 14 games for gammafunk (killer~~rat): 10x a rat, an orange rat, a river rat, Rationalist's ghost, a green rat 00:43:07 they were replaced 00:43:10 with river rats 00:43:29 interesting, I let a river rat get me 00:43:35 !lg . killer=river_rat 00:43:35 ...coypu? 00:43:35 1. gammafunk the Poker (L4 MfSk), mangled by a river rat (kmap: gup_sewer_entry_bowl) on D:3 on 2014-11-29 03:09:08, with 88 points after 2202 turns and 0:16:08. 00:43:35 nice ghost 00:43:46 goes with the quokka 00:43:46 poly? 00:43:52 oh I remember that 00:44:03 when's beavers 00:44:04 oh, sewer entr 00:44:07 y 00:44:26 hmmm, looks like randliches are picking up a few zot:5 kills, but still no summon greater demon kills, which is odd 00:44:49 !lg randliches ikiller~~lich place=zot:5 s=ckaux 00:44:49 No games for randliches (ikiller~~lich place=zot:5). 00:45:12 !lg * randliches ikiller~~lich s=ckaux 00:45:13 !lg * randliches ikiller~~lich place=zot:5 s=ckaux 00:45:13 35 games for * (randliches ikiller~~lich): 9x crystal spear, 5x chain lightning, 3x wavering orb of destruction, 3x bolt of lightning, 2x orb of destruction, 2x fireball, 2x blast of rock fragments, 2x iron shot, 2x, blast of cold, orb of energy, bolt of cold, bolt of negative energy, accursed screaming 00:45:13 4 games for * (randliches ikiller~~lich place=zot:5): 2x orb of destruction, blast of rock fragments, orb of energy 00:45:34 ood, lrd, imb 00:45:45 sigh, fireball 00:46:04 fireball is a problem? 00:46:21 I just mean there used to be four monsters decently defined by fireball 00:46:35 and now, outta nowhere: 00:46:52 Hmm, which 4 monsters? 00:47:16 efreet fire giant orb of fire margery 00:47:25 Ah. 00:48:08 ogre mage 00:48:19 four monsters seems common enough that adding a fifth shouldn't be a huge deal 00:48:21 well I assume defined would mean "always has" 00:48:30 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:48:36 I only sighed! 00:48:58 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:49:02 I did much more than sighing about hellfire liches! 00:49:12 was hellfire randlich a thing at some point 00:49:47 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:50:11 it was in the original spell list 00:50:16 but yeah, that was certainly dumb 00:55:41 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:02 -!- us17 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:13 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:03:15 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 01:07:48 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:11:45 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.16-a0-3059-g31f3681: Gyre/Gimble tiles 10(45 minutes ago, 4 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=31f3681a2853 01:11:45 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.16-a0-3060-g0a98a19: Various doll weapon edits 10(4 minutes ago, 6 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a98a193647c 01:11:57 -!- winlu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:33 hopefully that makes daggers look a little less off-kilter 01:14:19 jabberwock (151) | Spd: 20 | HD: 12 | HP: 53-81 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 30, 10, 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2200 | Sp: pain (d14) [06!sil], haste [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 01:14:19 %??executioner name:jabberwock n_rpl 01:18:35 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:19:19 -!- Xeiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:22:33 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:23:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:25:18 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:27:08 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:10 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:31:28 -!- glamas has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:32:08 -!- kipster has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:32:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:33:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:44:17 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:48 -!- ololoev has quit [Client Quit] 01:55:25 -!- travis-ci has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:25 The build passed. (master - 0a98a19 #1054 : ontoclasm): http://travis-ci.org/crawl-ref/crawl-ref/builds/43437772 01:55:25 -!- travis-ci has left ##crawl-dev 01:56:28 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:05 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:22:47 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3060-g0a98a19 (34) 02:26:50 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:28:43 -!- Amy is now known as Guest32503 02:30:07 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:30:27 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:26 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:54 -!- somebody has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:05 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:36 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:50:54 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:53:13 -!- scrumchum has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:57:10 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:06 -!- glamas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:00 -!- glamas_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:01:06 -!- Zauren has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:13:59 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:18:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:28 -!- weezeface has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:25 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:27:03 -!- maha_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 03:30:31 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:14 -!- anubisbafoobis has quit [Quit: anubisbafoobis] 03:34:19 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:37:56 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:41:13 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:51:33 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:51:33 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:51:47 -!- ruwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:27 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:54:54 -!- witty has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:54:54 -!- witty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:05:46 -!- alefury has quit [] 04:17:04 -!- ___miek has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:18:22 -!- sideshow has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:33:25 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:24 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:47 -!- schistosoma has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:06 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:29 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:59:26 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:30 -!- mopl has quit [Client Quit] 05:12:47 the new gozag sparkle effect is ace, nice work 05:13:58 phantom mirrors are quite expensive in shops btw, for a one use item, epecially after the nerf 05:14:53 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:25:07 !tell PleasingFungus Hey, thanks for the Cigotuvi's Embrace, you are awesome! :) I think that Necromancy was needing something like this spell for a long time. Was this this a conscious design decision that all corpses are treated equally regardless of HD (or their damage potential as zombies or simulacra)? This seems a bit unfair. 05:25:08 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 05:25:17 ARGHH! 05:25:40 !tell PleasingFungus Hey, thanks for the Cigotuvi's Embrace, you are awesome! :) I think that Necromancy was needing something like this spell for a long time. 05:25:40 somebody: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 05:25:55 !tell PleasingFungus Was this this a conscious design decision that all corpses are treated equally regardless of HD (or their damage potential as zombies or simulacra)? This seems a bit unfair. 05:25:55 somebody: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 05:30:08 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:32:04 !tell PleasingFungus It was particularly humorous when I got the same equal bonus from using the corpses of a quokka and a giant. :) Maybe there need to be a tiny teensy bit of scaling by the size of the customer? 05:32:04 somebody: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 05:40:22 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:40:49 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:42:01 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 05:54:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:00 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 05:56:07 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:57:52 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:53 -!- TR_Muscateer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:00:17 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:46 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:36 [a] 738 gold - Suhoch's Food Shoppe 06:03:36 [b] 490 gold - Skek's Antique Weapon Emporium 06:03:36 [c] 788 gold - Lomnau's General Store 06:03:36 [d] 757 gold - Suxochucla's Weapon Shop 06:03:56 ^ I think the pricing is off here. surely a non-antique store should be cheaper than an antique store? and why is food so expensive? 06:04:25 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:23 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:32 -!- wat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:37 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 06:23:51 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:37:05 Cleaving attacks neutral ("indifferent") creatures without a prompt 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9313 by Sar 06:40:19 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:24 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:47:19 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:10 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:59:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:59:40 -!- Fiveotanaka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:07:47 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:07:54 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ is now known as Twiggytwiggytwig 07:10:24 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:39 -!- jimeh_ has quit [Client Quit] 07:14:27 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:15:28 -!- Guest32503 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:28 -!- jimeh_ has quit [Client Quit] 07:24:37 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 07:31:55 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:52 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:34 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:51:40 !learn add lasty_to_do gammafunk: in that backtrace I gave you, the crash occurs when has_connected_path_forward finds e.g. an unexplored upstairs after going down 07:51:40 lasty to do[5/5]: gammafunk: in that backtrace I gave you, the crash occurs when has_connected_path_forward finds e.g. an unexplored upstairs after going down 07:55:55 * Grunt commands Lasty_ to press onward! 07:59:23 ok 07:59:29 I think animate skeleton might be a bit too good 07:59:40 especially when I can cast it with literally no spellcasting skills with relative ease 07:59:41 as a ghoul 08:00:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:58 It's a level 1 permanent shadow creatures spell that's... balanced by material cost 08:17:13 !tell Napkin I've updated the code at https://github.com/bstrie/dcss-playerstatus if you'd like to update http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/player-status 08:17:14 Wensley: OK, I'll let napkin know. 08:18:49 Jafet: "permanent", though unable to follow you through staircases :) 08:23:02 It used to be good at making instant simulacra. 08:23:13 Just add dark magics™! 08:25:03 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:31:16 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:31 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:55 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:55 -!- fearitself has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:53:31 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:59:44 thanks, Wensley, will try to update soon 08:59:44 Napkin: You have 29 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:59:49 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:05:38 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:06:46 Napkin: oh dear, have I just added to your message pile? :) it's not urgent, really, but the update removes CLAN which is currently broken 09:06:48 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:09 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 09:14:31 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:16:20 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 09:18:32 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:32 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:23:53 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:46 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 09:28:07 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:43 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:32:22 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:38:34 what browsers does webtiles support? 09:38:34 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 09:38:47 ??browsers 09:38:47 I don't have a page labeled browsers in my learndb. 09:39:50 bleh, I'm guessing that webtiles supports IE11 09:40:13 which stymies my idea of using ES6 promises to enhance the player status page :P 09:40:30 browsers that support javascript and websockets. at one point opera worked if you enabled websockets 09:41:51 modern opera is just re-skinned chrome, I'm sure it supports webtiles 09:45:00 well, as usual, damn you internet explorer 09:45:19 "Microsoft claims that Internet Explorer 11, running the WebKit SunSpider JavaScript Benchmark, is the fastest browser as of October 15, 2013." <-- lolling 09:45:42 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:46:27 * dpeg wonders what's worse: playing Crawl in IE or going webtiles in the first palce 09:49:02 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:41 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:53:01 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:17 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:20 -!- Cheburashka has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:55:44 -!- Soadreqm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:24 -!- ldf_ has quit [Quit: ldf_] 09:56:58 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:06 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:11:41 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:22 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:19 Is it possible to ask the makefile to build me an i386 version of Crawl on OS X Yosemite? Or does the OS X toolkit only permit 64 bit builds these days? 10:14:23 if you need a 32 bit version then you have a bigger problem looming: 10.10 will only build for 10.10 or (by setting MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET) 10.9 10:14:45 if you need a 32-bit version then presumably you want it for an older OS version, and xcode won't do that 10:15:55 chequers: the prices for shops are randomized for each one, every time; there's no relation to the contents. I'm fine with that in general, though possibly a special case should be made for food shops. 10:15:55 PleasingFungus: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:16:14 I don't want it for an older OS version; I'm still having some issues compiling SDL1 on Yosemite, and googling around it appears to be a 64bit vs 32bit issue. 10:16:44 Quite a few apps run on OS X in 32bit mode (Steam, for example) so it can run it, I just don't know how to compile for it. 10:16:50 ah. I think you need to hack `-arch i386` into it somehow 10:17:29 I did a bit of hackery with the makefile earlier, but didn't have much luck, that makefile is soo large and full of lovely exceptions. 10:17:40 !tell somebody Cigotuvi's doesn't scale on corpse size for the sake of my sanity when trying to balance it; it also lets players animate strong corpses & cigotuvify weak ones. 10:17:41 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let somebody know. 10:17:47 -!- Sharkman1231 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:22 !tell Lightli Yes, Animate Skeleton is generally considered enormously too strong for the results it gives. There are a few ideas floating around to fix that. 10:18:22 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let lightli know. 10:18:35 !tell Lightli Er, enormously too strong for the investment it takes to get castable* 10:18:36 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let lightli know. 10:19:13 mrrrr 10:19:22 maybe: arch -32 make ... 10:20:40 "make: Bad CPU type in executable" 10:21:27 bah won't propagate 10:21:43 ummmm 10:22:08 When I set "ARCH := $(HOST)" to "ARCH := i386", some things still compile for x86_64 10:22:11 oh dear, yes, make is not a fat binary 10:22:59 probably that's because HOSTCXX 10:24:25 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:25:19 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:26:43 Wow, that got very far through the compilation phase, almost finished when I got "/bin/sh: i386: command not found". It certainly finished compiling all of SDL. 10:26:52 I set ARCH and HOSTCXX to i386. 10:28:02 HOSTCXX is a compiler name 10:28:09 you presumably wanted 'gcc -arch i386' 10:28:29 er g++ ... 10:28:45 the point is HOSTCXX is a compiler for the native platform and CXX is the compiler for the target 10:28:55 and ARCH only applies to the latter 10:29:06 ohhh 10:29:21 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:29 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:35:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:39:55 also, arguably you do not care about HOSTCXX being 64 bit unless there is some reason helper programs run during the build also need to be 32 bit 10:40:07 they're not going to be used with or part of the final result 10:41:24 (for example HOSTCXX is used to build the program that generates tiles. I think that does not use SDL so should not have issues) 10:41:49 (although if you are building 0.15.2, hm, it might still use SDL...) 10:42:20 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:44:01 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:44:11 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ is now known as Twiggytwiggytwig 10:45:50 hmm, it looks like it /may/ still be compiling for x86_64, I'm seeing TRACK_CFLAGS = gcc -arch x86_64 in the console log during compilation. 10:46:06 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]] 10:46:57 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:47:00 that sounds like part of the flags change check 10:47:32 look at crawl-ref/crawl/source/.cflags 10:49:00 Should I change the .cflags file to say i386 instead of x86_64? 10:51:52 no 10:52:26 it records the flags from the LAST build so it knows when you changed something and can force a full rebuild 10:52:52 oh :/ 10:54:35 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:58:13 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:04:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:40 Well, it looks like my theory that compiling for 32 bit would fix it, didn't fix it. :/ 11:09:59 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:02 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3060-g0a98a19 (34) 11:12:00 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:12:11 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 11:12:46 -!- chukamok has quit [Client Quit] 11:14:35 you probably need |am*thyst for this but probably he's busy 11:15:02 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:56 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:21 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 11:26:12 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:20 He might not be interested in it either, considering the trunk builds just fine on OS X with the switch to SDL 2, so it's really only 0.15.2 branch/tag that still has this problem. 11:26:22 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:26:49 ??storm card 11:26:50 storm card[1/1]: Rain (shallow water), swiftness, and a short-lived tornado at high power. 11:26:55 eh 11:28:17 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:33:13 PleasingFungus: Hey. Regarding Cigotuvi's, maybe there will be more of your or dpeg's sanity to spread around sometime in the future? Corpses of the same size giving equal bonuses feel wrong somehow, and moving around to change LOS and "snipe" which corpses to affect with Animate and which with Embrace looks like encouraging degenerative gameplay to me. 11:33:35 degenerative is a fun term 11:33:44 PleasingFungus: No offense, right? 11:33:47 Cigotuvi's Degenerative Gameplay 11:33:50 Ha-ha. 11:33:51 somebody: of course. 11:34:28 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:35:36 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:35:54 -!- dpeg is now known as insanepeg 11:36:10 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:18 (exercising in a moment, no time for sensible comments :) 11:36:35 PleasingFungus: It's just that opportunity costs look pretty equal to me across Crawl — experience, piety, etc. And in this case they are not. I assume we agree that theoretically, this could might maybe use some improvement in the future? 11:37:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:07 insanepeg: Hey. On the odd chance you were responsible for it, thanks for Cigotuvi's Embrace! 11:37:23 insanepeg: he is not. 11:37:24 no, not at all :) 11:37:27 The line "The bodies of the dead rush to embrace you!" is a story upon itself. 11:37:56 PleasingFungus: Oh. I must have misread your comment. Well, get a bit more proud about yourself, then. :) 11:38:20 evilmike gave me the seed of the idea, and then I implemented it, with of course helpful suggestions from many others. 11:38:56 Okay, nevermind. 11:39:08 -!- insanepeg is now known as dpeg 11:39:59 PleasingFungus: To rephrase, usefulness of the spell seems *really* skewed in favor of the places where you face many weak enemies, such as Orc. It's still great everywhere, mind you, but still. 11:40:16 somebody: there are plenty of similar cases previously extant in crawl - consider the interaction of different types of corpse sacrifice with different types of corpses, for example. Okawaru corpse sacrifice liked more valuable corpses, so you sacrificed nasty enemies and ate easy ones; Makhleb didn't cares, so you sacrificed small enemies and ate meaty ones... a tiny optimization game. I'm... 11:40:18 ...aware that both of those have been removed (though Lugonu's sacrifice mechanic is roughly the same as Makhleb's, iirc), but it's not because they valued corpses differently from other effects. 11:40:53 I agree that the UI for Cigotuvi's doesn't interact optimally with Animate Dead (it's fine with animskel or simulac), but that's a fairly small problem. 11:40:57 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:02 Okay, you Crawl fact trivia Kung Fu is stronger than mine. 11:41:18 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:41:24 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 11:41:37 I still can't get it, do you agree that it should (theoretically) be balanced? :p 11:41:39 I don't think it's about a trivia contest. This isn't a supreme case where we're arguing based on precedent - I'm just pulling up examples of similar designs that worked OK, in my opinion. 11:41:52 *supreme court case 11:41:53 What do you mean by "balanced"? 11:42:12 Ha-ha, okay. I will just proceed to take it a "no". 11:42:20 [PATCH] Don't let allies cast animate dead while worshiping Beogh. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9314 by RBrandon 11:42:33