00:00:02 ultimately yes. but before that it gets into hairy statistics 00:00:12 variance is a thing 00:00:24 bool does not mean you have no variance 00:00:27 hairy statistician (044) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 39-66 | AC/EV: 3/7 | Dam: 1005(reach)04(poison, weakness), 8 | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(60), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 415 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 00:00:27 %??orange demon name:hairy_statistician n_rpl 00:00:43 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:00 well, probability, but they're often taught together because one follows from the other. it does get pretty hairy though, and often does not make intuitive sense 00:01:03 but it matters 00:03:00 I think if you take this apart as a stats problem you can derive the Monty Hall Problem from it? 00:03:22 I'm confused how a set of numbers can be more "spread out" than another set of numbers when both sets have the same average and both sets contain only copies of two possible values. 00:03:34 !vault dk_xom_monty_hall 00:03:34 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/xom_monty_hall.des;hb=HEAD#l38 00:03:41 <3 00:04:24 reaverb: what is the variance of a bernoulli random variable? 00:04:27 e.g. a boolean 00:04:32 it's p(1-p) 00:04:37 e.g. depends on value of p 00:04:50 Yes but if p was differant the average would be differant. 00:05:08 To use lower numbers: Isn't "one_chance_in(2) && x_chance_in_y(x,3)" equivalent to "x_chance_in_y(x, 6)" 00:05:17 reaverb: are we commparing one bernoulli versus another? 00:05:25 No, it's just x_chance_in_y 00:05:32 or are we comparing the joint of two bernoulli versus one bernoulli? 00:06:33 gammafunk: All those random functions are continous random variables? 00:08:14 <|amethyst> they're both discrete and in fact bernoulli, since the answer is 0 or 1 00:09:16 Oh, oops. I was thinking of the roll beind those functions, but of course takinga comparison makes them discrete... 00:09:21 <|amethyst> and, yes, x_chance_in_y(x,6) is the same 00:09:37 <|amethyst> err 00:09:56 <|amethyst> no it's not 00:10:07 <|amethyst> suppose x is 7 00:10:08 Assuming x <= 6 00:10:11 <|amethyst> ah 00:10:21 <|amethyst> no 00:10:26 assume x <= 3 00:10:26 <|amethyst> only assuming x <= 3 00:10:30 hi. 00:10:40 Oh, oops, yes :D 00:10:42 * Grunt wanders off to sleep. 00:11:01 yeah the && is the part 00:11:10 The original question was: Does "one_chance_in(20) && x_chance_in_y(11 + item_level, 500)" = "x_chance_in_y(11 + item_level, 10000)" 00:11:25 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:11:26 And I'm assuming item_level doesn't go over 500? I guess I should check. 00:11:46 the && isn't the sum of two r.v. so 00:12:12 Yes && is not a + :D 00:12:35 well I know && is not a + 00:13:11 but I was thinking in terms of r.v; you could think of it as a plus but then you take the result and turn it back into another boolean 00:13:29 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3008-g8433e14 (34) 00:13:37 <|amethyst> it's a * not a + 00:13:48 ^ 00:13:48 yeah that works 00:14:32 -!- liquidsnake has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:15:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem seriously, read this. it's been a long time since I had to do probability & stats, but I am pretty sure reaverb is making this exact error 00:15:49 no it is correct that they have the same mean and var 00:17:02 geekosaur: I know what the Monty Hall problem is and I'm certain its not relevant here <_<. I'm not recieving information after selecting a choice and then being given the option to change that choice. >_> 00:20:29 that's a fun problem but very dependent upon a few key assumptions 00:20:31 <|amethyst> 1/2 chance of a 1/3 chance is a 1/6 chance 00:21:27 <+gammafunk> chequers: do you run get_titles.py on a cron entry for cpo? <-- yes 00:21:34 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 00:21:35 chequers: ok, thanks 00:21:44 <|amethyst> the only problem is that with x_chance_in_y you can write a "7/3 chance" but it actually means a 1/1 chance, not something with an expected value of 7/3 00:21:52 < Wensley> chequers: while you tell me where your dgl-status page is hidden <-- what's that? 00:22:12 yeah I was just thinking that it had different variance, but it's also a bernoulli with the same p 00:22:14 so it has the same variance 00:22:28 <|amethyst> chequers: a very simple script 00:22:33 <|amethyst> pardon the paste 00:22:44 <|amethyst> #! /bin/sh 00:22:44 <|amethyst> echo Content-type: text/plain 00:22:44 <|amethyst> echo 00:22:47 <|amethyst> exec /usr/local/sbin/dgamelaunch -s 00:23:14 <|amethyst> I guess that's missing from the instructions 00:23:49 now if it were the sum instead of &&, then it wouldn't have the same variance, but it also would no longer be bernoulli 00:23:49 what's it for? all active games? or just all active console games 00:24:19 <|amethyst> chequers: all, since dgl can see webtiles games if you set up the inprogress etc dirs appropriately 00:24:58 we can get this data from webtiles, right? I'd prefer webtiles ot be the canonical source of information 00:25:19 chequers: well we need one format 00:25:23 and cdo doesn't have webtiles 00:25:30 i guess I'd have to expose something to do so in webtiles 00:25:51 Wensley was looking for maybe a json version 00:26:08 since he has to scrape the results from that dgamelaunch -s output 00:26:09 exactly what I was just musing 00:26:25 but then there's a problem of what to do on e.g. cdo 00:26:29 I guess this was for the 'players online' thingY/ 00:26:32 I guess that's the only not-webtiles server? 00:26:34 yes 00:26:48 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:03 well, presumably the script can keep doing whatever it's doing for cdo et al, and for webtiles-changes servers, it can use the (as yet nonexistent) json api request 00:27:26 well he'd like to have one way to parse, of course 00:27:41 but maybe we could scriptify something for cdo I guess 00:27:53 oh, part of the problem: player titles 00:28:02 but that's not even in dgl at all so 00:28:22 Wensley: if I gave you a JSON API for all new webtiles servers, would you be ok supporting this as the new 'current players' API but still supporting the old system for existing "legacy" servers? 00:28:55 I want to clear away my in-progress work on janitor commands first, but I'll start poking this during the week 00:29:25 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:29:44 thanks foor the background info gamma 00:29:54 np 00:30:55 -!- pentax has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:38:22 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:43:57 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:05 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:42 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3009-g4600900: Refactor _get_random_armour_type() (makeitem.cc) 10(73 minutes ago, 1 file, 56+ 55-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4600900ca771 00:52:42 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3010-g8482675: Remove a weird special case in _get_random_armour_type() 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8482675098d4 00:55:01 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:55:16 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 00:56:31 -!- ruwin has quit [] 00:56:53 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:13 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:04:48 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 01:11:56 -!- winlu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:15:48 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:23:13 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:38:26 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3011-g26c730b: Refactor _abyss_place_vaults() (abyss.cc) 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 22+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26c730bfc407 01:41:04 -!- Lprsti99_______ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:44:55 -!- AntGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:04 -!- Pacra_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:50:10 -!- Midael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:50:29 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:00:16 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:01:20 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:01:29 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:17 -!- mspang has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:07:36 -!- zauren is now known as Zauren 02:08:32 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:05 -!- neunon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:10:45 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:39 -!- Xeiph_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:23:15 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3011-g26c730b (34) 02:23:54 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:29:48 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36:32 !tell pleasingfungus just tell him AM exists already 02:36:32 theTower: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 02:44:55 -!- ebering has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:01 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 02:55:34 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:59:15 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 03:06:29 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:08:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:15:14 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:22:56 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Client Quit] 03:27:25 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 03:30:37 -!- kipster has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:54 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:48:57 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:54:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:55:00 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:56:29 -!- glamas- has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:03:56 -!- weezeface has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:44 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:13:02 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:04 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:23:07 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:25:07 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:57 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:16 -!- Patashu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:27 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 04:28:28 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:28:40 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: "What happens if you die in reality?" "You die, stupid. That's why it's called reality."] 04:34:17 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:05 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:19:49 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:35 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:23:57 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38:58 -!- penciltax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 05:57:53 -!- SickSadWorld has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:58:36 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 06:00:39 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:25:01 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:25:51 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:04 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:36:04 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:37:46 -!- Lprsti99_______ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:42:32 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 06:42:39 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:49:00 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 06:50:09 -!- Lohengramm has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:52:49 -!- Lohengramm has joined ##crawl-dev 07:03:35 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:22 -!- TAS_2012v has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:03 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:12 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:30:30 -!- thebrasse has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:30:38 I am really impressed with what you did with Gell's Gravitas. :) The wonderful and supreme school of Necromancy have just gotten a lot better with long-distance delivery of minions! 07:31:36 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:31:52 ..into melee-range. 07:33:42 It was also long-time overdue that the school of Translocations is able to actually translocate something other than caster, en masse. 07:34:40 So uhmm, you guys are absolutely great. Well, *almost* absolutely great, taking into the account how Sublimation no longer works on corpses for some uncomprehendable reason. 07:49:11 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:14 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:44 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:10:42 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:10:50 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:00 Heh, if a randlich makes a servitor you get to see what its spells are 08:28:08 -!- johnny0 has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:29:37 -!- radinms has quit [] 08:30:29 -!- eagle77 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:39:04 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:24 ??frozen 08:40:25 flash freeze[1/1]: A conjuration on Antaeus in 0.14 and a random chance per {blood saint} {legendary destruction} cast. Needs only line of fire and ignores EV, partially irresistible cold damage, decently hurts. Gives a Frozen status that slows the targets movement for three turns, but also blocks flash freeze being cast on said target. 08:50:16 -!- dis-_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:40 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 08:51:29 -!- dis- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:51:48 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 08:54:15 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:54:43 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:57:57 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:59:49 -!- Maera has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:39 -!- poaga has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:06:58 chequers: ping 09:07:33 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:05 !tell chequers I'd LOVE to have a JSON response for this. love love love 09:10:05 Wensley: OK, I'll let chequers know. 09:11:57 !tell chequers I don't mind supporting the old way for console-only servers, I'd need to write new code for the new API anyway and CDO doesn't change much 09:11:57 Wensley: OK, I'll let chequers know. 09:15:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:18:17 -!- muravey has quit [Quit: Be back later ...] 09:19:02 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:22:38 somebody: you're welcome!! 09:23:31 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:27:37 Also, that is a use for the spell I never considered. :) 09:30:19 -!- glamas- has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:32:04 -!- ZRN has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:36:08 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:45:36 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:49:00 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:00 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:49 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:29 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:00:33 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:05:21 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:45 -!- thebrasse has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:11:22 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:05 Grunt: Hey, vampires (plain vampires) have all their spells frequency 0. I'm assuming that isn't suppose to happen? 10:13:11 Dates back to: 10:13:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:13:25 %git 9fbab266 10:13:25 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1005-g9fbab26: Fill out the new mon-spll.h fields. 10(9 weeks ago, 3 files, 976+ 961-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9fbab266b575 10:13:40 !source mon-spell.h:92 10:13:41 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-spell.h;hb=HEAD#l92 10:16:03 I'd correct that myself but I don't know what algorithm was used to fill in the weights. 10:17:48 -!- mizu_no__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:19:18 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:28 . . . 10:19:30 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:19:32 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 10:20:46 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:21:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-3012-g789e4fb: Assign vampires their spell frequencies (reaverb). 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=789e4fb7fb5a 10:21:30 reaverb: (HD + 50) * (number of instances of spell in old spellbook) / (total spell count in old spellbook), for the record. 10:21:34 ..where are you getting those numbers from anyway? 10:21:36 Ha. 10:21:38 Hi. 10:21:39 Thanks. 10:21:49 That's intended to match the old spellcasting algorithms. 10:22:09 ...which had an (HD + 50) / 200 chance in casting and picked roughly randomly among available spells. 10:22:31 Make sense, I just didn't know what that algorithm was. 10:27:10 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:30 -!- dis- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:35:39 -!- dis-_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:37:16 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:38:09 Is there a reasoning to the order of mpsell_list ? I could alphabetize it. 10:38:23 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:38:52 -!- nicholas982_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:42:41 <|amethyst> It's the order they are listed in xv, so I would put the more significant or more common ones firest 10:42:49 <|amethyst> s/firest/first/ 10:43:08 <|amethyst> ("more common" as in "higher frequency") 10:43:40 I meant alphabetize the MST_FOO blocks. 10:43:42 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:43:52 So putting the MST_AIZUL at the top of the list, etc. 10:45:39 <|amethyst> ah, that order doesn't matter... it currently matches the enum order, but it doesn't have to unless someone re-broke that recently 10:49:47 wow, with 10 throwing skill, it only take 5 aut to fire a needle. That's . . . really goo 10:49:48 d 10:51:45 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:43 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:06 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:53:07 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:11 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 10:53:48 The yak evaporates and reforms as a black mamba!!! 10:53:49 this 10:53:53 isn't a downgrade 10:54:24 welcome to hitdice polymorph 10:54:56 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:55:47 <|amethyst> instead of going all the way to using XP (which requires a real monster or at least an HP estimate), what about using HD * exp_mod for polymorphs 10:56:08 <|amethyst> or maybe XP is the way to go 10:56:15 You should have drained the yak so that it could turn into a boggart 10:56:47 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:53 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 10:58:08 !tell theTower could you nerf that damn master hand sword form in smash 10:58:09 nrook: OK, I'll let thetower know. 11:00:57 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:40 -!- somebody has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3013-g143f624: Improve Crawl's party potential 10(88 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=143f6246cb26 11:02:51 PleasingFungus: That's not a helpful commit message >_> 11:04:13 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:04:54 reaverb: I thought about it for about thirty seconds, but the summary line doesn't have enough space for a great summary of this change. So I went with a funny one instead. The full change description + reasoning is in the commit message, of course. 11:05:42 The first line of the commit message would make for a good commit title. 11:05:45 ^ 11:06:08 And put the joke in the commit message :D 11:06:40 Ah - I suppose that is under the character limit. 11:06:42 W/e. 11:08:47 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:08:59 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:09:06 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 11:10:06 -!- glamas_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:17 -!- jefkin has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:11:06 <|amethyst> Lasty: hm... sacced evo, then dropped my wands. I got "you stop training evocations" when I dropped the wands 11:11:20 <|amethyst> Lasty: I didn't check to see what my training percentages were before that 11:13:12 |amethyst: hrrm. That's not good . . . can you do a char dump and check your Evo skill? 11:13:44 That issue has come up before, but I thought it had been fixed months ago 11:13:45 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:57 <|amethyst> Lasty: 0.0 11:14:06 <|amethyst> Lasty: but I don't know if it had gotten up to 0.1 yet 11:14:13 hrrm 11:14:17 <|amethyst> Lasty: I had just started training evo when I was offered the sacrifice 11:14:22 ah 11:14:43 I'll have to look into it 11:15:07 <|amethyst> I'd offer a save backup, but I don't think there's anything left in the save that would give a clue 11:15:20 well, I should be able to reproduce it I think 11:16:14 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:18:34 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:17 reaverb: looks like you reduced crystal plate appearances by about 20% 11:20:25 15-20%, not sure 11:20:38 PleasingFungus: ? Could you explain how. 11:20:53 %git 8482675098d 11:20:53 07reaverb02 * 0.16-a0-3010-g8482675: Remove a weird special case in _get_random_armour_type() 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8482675098d4 11:21:04 Yeah, I know the commit, but how is that 20%? 11:21:06 <|amethyst> Lasty: hm... Ru doesn't use invo, right? 11:21:34 <|amethyst> Lasty: I'm playing a Troll and considering training spellcasting just so I have enough mana for Power Leap 11:22:16 Crystal plate armour is very rare. 11:22:17 I just ran objstat to check. 11:23:19 Probably doesn't matter very much; just letting you know. 11:23:28 What are the before/after numbers? 11:25:03 For objstat 15-rune, an average of 0.58 CPA per game pre-change, 0.52 post-change. (so closer to 12%, actually.) this is over 1k and 50 iterations respectively. 11:25:23 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-3013-g143f624 (34) 11:27:22 That's more like 10% (but yeah I was expecting a 3% change max). I guess 50 is enough I can't blame varaince :D. Did you check the other armours to see that we didn't accidently nerf all armours? 11:27:46 I don't think its a issue, particularly since the "missing" crystal plate spawns are becoming high-level dragon armours instead. 11:28:03 I didn't check the other armours, no. 11:29:22 Hm. Might actually be the case that all armours are nerfed, yeah. 11:29:28 ??healer_guide 11:29:28 healer guide[1/1]: pacify all the dudes until lair and then do whatever 11:29:54 bah 11:30:37 Seeing substantially fewer FDA, GDA, QDA, PDA, StDA 11:30:46 |amethyst: I played a TrMo^Ru earlier and did just that 11:30:49 possibly all of the dragon armours 11:31:15 PleasingFungus: Hmm, how long before the change was the "previous" version. 11:31:26 |amethyst: yeah, Ru doesn't use invo 11:31:50 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 11:32:28 %git ab6dde0 11:32:28 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-2600-gab6dde0: Small polearm brand correction 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab6dde0e4311 11:32:32 two weeks ago 11:33:32 -!- johnny0_ is now known as johnny0 11:34:10 hm. dragon armour thing might have been sample size issues - not sure. 11:34:40 I'm currently looking at 20-iteration runs, while testing another change - should've saved the 50-iteration run but didn't, alas. 11:35:11 feh. guess I'll just make another 50-iter run. 11:37:00 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37:31 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3014-g93b781f: Fix monster cloud resistance checks (ebering) 10(70 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=93b781fc67d7 11:37:38 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 11:37:41 <|amethyst> reaverb: btw, some of those comments need to change 11:37:44 PleasingFungus: I'd love a table of important items like CPA and how many you can expect to find per game 11:37:50 that'd be super cool 11:37:51 ??objstat[2 11:37:52 objstat[2/3]: Latest statistics: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7VXhHzhWWb7S282VWhLVWRXbG8&usp=sharing 11:37:53 good news 11:37:55 |amethyst: Which comments? 11:37:56 <|amethyst> reaverb: one refers to "the rest of" the dragon armours, but comes before "some dragon armours" now 11:37:58 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:05 |amethyst: Oh, oops. 11:38:41 .gmap -tv 11:38:48 88. dhcng, XL12 MiFi, T:17034 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 11:39:26 <|amethyst> reaverb: also, if you're looking to refactor, you should be able to avoid the arrays with random_choose(ARM_FOO, ARM_BAR, ARM_BAZ); (it no longer requires a terminating zero) 11:40:00 |amethyst: Ah, That sounds good :D 11:40:38 * gammafunk grumbles about people incessantly using emoticons as punctuation 11:40:50 <|amethyst> gammafunk: fix your IRC client 11:40:55 haha 11:41:05 gammafunk: what do you mean >:( 11:41:12 |amethyst: do you regexp them away 11:41:23 I'm just always afraid of miscommunicating tone in text. 11:41:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh 11:41:38 (Stopped myself from using >_> for a period there) 11:41:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I thought you had an IRC client that turned things like ) ; into an actual smiley 11:41:59 |amethyst: no, just irssi in gnome-terminal 11:42:18 PleasingFungus: amazing! except I can't seem to be able to view these pages 11:42:18 reaverb: yeah, constantly using them can also come off as "glib" or snarky, but it's very much a personal preference 11:42:21 I'm probably just old 11:42:25 <|amethyst> oh, then fix your perception :P 11:42:32 (but seriously I'm 12yo) 11:42:38 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ohh 11:42:44 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you were talking about reaverb's 11:42:48 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:51 heh, yeah 11:43:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: sorry, I thought you were referring to the last two characters of "ARM_BAZ);" 11:43:13 oh, haha, no but I see it now 11:43:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: this has come up before when people asked how to search for commits 11:43:23 that's a doy face! 11:43:40 |amethyst: yes when I was on os x, every chei irc message had a smiley like that 11:43:44 google drive not cooperating, so I can't view the spreadsheets online but I can DL and view them locally I guess 11:43:47 since i was using that one client... 11:43:56 zxc232: they're too big to preview online - you have to download them. 11:43:58 zxc232: spreadsheets? 11:44:06 are you talking about objstat? 11:44:11 yeah 11:44:15 first time I've seen this 11:44:23 yeah they're too big for google ...calc or w/e it is 11:44:34 so I made them as ods (and xls for 0.16-a) 11:44:54 I have some ideas to remove unneeded lines, but I'm still not certainly google will allow them to import 11:45:13 I want to remove monter entries where no monsters are generated 11:45:15 *monster 11:45:23 so that will remove many rows 11:45:28 -!- cs_0x6373 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:41 and on the AllLevels sheet you'll see the full monster list 11:45:56 so, I'm looking at the 016 3rune one 11:45:58 that will be a bit less clear, since players might wonder why there are no e.g merfolk monster lines 11:46:09 <|amethyst> is there stuff (formulas etc) in the spreadsheet that isn't in the objstat csv? 11:46:12 what areas are cleared to be considered 3 rune? 11:46:26 |amethyst: no just a conversion from ods to xls (and ods is from the txt output directly) 11:46:34 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ah 11:46:39 zxc232: see the AllLevels notes at the top 11:46:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you can do those automatically from the command line with ssconvert, which I believe is part of gnumeric 11:47:09 ah right 11:47:34 average 13 enchant scrolls of each type 11:47:36 that's interesting 11:47:37 |amethyst: well I use a LibreOffice dbase macro to do it currently, but it does require using the GUI of both dbase and calc a bit 11:47:47 |amethyst: can that make ods and xls? 11:48:10 the dbase macro is to take the objstat*.txt files and make one ods with multiple sheets 11:48:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh, sheets 11:48:23 yeah, so it's all in one file 11:48:42 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it can do ods output, but now that I think about it I don't know if there's a way to do multiple worksheets from CSVs 11:48:59 well I'll poke into it, maybe it'd be able to do that 11:49:07 <|amethyst> oh, it does have a -merge-to=FILENAME 11:49:23 <|amethyst> s/-mer/--mer/ 11:49:40 this is a goldmine of info 11:49:42 love it! 11:51:08 zxc232: you're welcome, and suggestions/patches are appreciated :) 11:51:23 suggestions for what? rebalancing item droprates? 11:51:38 oh, for objstat functionatlity 11:51:40 <|amethyst> zxc232: you can make your own if you do a (full)debug build and run crawl -objstat ... useful if you're tweaking things 11:51:41 ??objstat 11:51:41 objstat[1/3]: Run with "crawl -objstat" in a full debug console build of crawl ("make debug") to generate item/monster statistics by level/branch; see crawl -help for details 11:51:53 zxc232: that's how you run it 11:52:05 got it 11:52:09 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:13 I should make a todo for it 11:52:16 I don't think I'll be doing any of that. I just like looking at stats 11:52:39 I'm... pretty uncertain about making elf out of stone 11:52:39 theTower: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 11:52:41 yeah, so far it's not been terrible useful for much more than "ooh look at that!" but hopefully it'll get some significant use 11:52:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3015-gba0a023: Fix robe ego odds 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba0a0239e712 11:52:49 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3016-g6d82212: Actually fix robe ego odds 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6d822126190c 11:52:56 ^ that was useful 11:53:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: FR: interface on the chaosforge wiki to put some of those numbers in monster and item pages 11:53:09 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:12 heh 11:53:17 that would be cool 11:53:21 <|amethyst> gammafunk: "2.4% of all monsters in D:10) 11:53:22 doable at least, for stable 11:53:26 <|amethyst> s/)/"/ 11:53:50 as someone i know would ask, is that actually useful for players to know? 11:54:18 no it's not really, at least for a vast majority of monsters 11:54:28 dpleasing 11:54:29 <|amethyst> The wiki isn't just for players learning to play the game 11:54:38 otoh nethack wiki takes this approach 11:54:39 <|amethyst> it's also for baseball statisticians 11:54:53 of basically completely documenting the game 11:54:54 You wouldn't be able to trust them to update it though. 11:55:08 <|amethyst> reaverb: if you make a script 11:55:11 well (in theory) the wiki works basically this way 11:55:13 <|amethyst> reaverb: I did that for the spell lists 11:55:24 trunk features are listed optionally in history 11:55:28 <|amethyst> reaverb: before I joined the dev team, so like three years ago 11:55:37 upon release they update all pages to be e.g. 0.15-accurate 11:55:51 so it's about being correct for stable 11:56:02 in practice, lots of pages don't get updated for several versions 11:56:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:05 (this is a strategy that leads to 0. 11:56:07 curses 11:56:26 but they may change it to be a bit more like learndb, who knows 11:56:34 |amethyst: Hmm, yes maybe a script could work. 11:56:46 and have a "trunk section" that's more assiduously kept up to date 11:57:26 what's I'd like to have: 1k iteration objstat and mapstat compiled for stable releases, with periodic versions of same data for trunk on some reasonable schedule 11:57:48 but these things are just not terribly important, so 11:57:55 <|amethyst> That said, I've never dealt with mediawiki bots 11:58:12 <|amethyst> with the spell script I just ran it and pasted the output into the relevant pages 11:58:25 PleasingFungus: so about that Gozag wrath description. 11:58:45 I know 11:58:46 yeah I think since we don't even generate the data in a systematic way in the first place (because it's not super important that we do), worrying about the unofficial wiki would be secondary 11:58:50 <|amethyst> which isn't feasible for something that is spread across hundreds of pages 11:58:57 tbh I think doxygen pages of our comments are more important overall 11:59:02 just making sure :) 11:59:06 :p 11:59:21 <|amethyst> gammafunk: doxygen pages are only useful to devs though 11:59:28 <|amethyst> gammafunk: Lua documentation would be nice 11:59:30 |amethyst: well to people learning the codebase! 11:59:41 |amethyst: you mean doxygen comments for lua? 11:59:47 and I guess a parser? 11:59:50 !document gammafunk 12:00:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: sure, or some format 12:00:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: dlua and clua separately properly 12:00:16 yeah, agree our lua functions are mostly not documented 12:00:28 I blame Grunt for that 12:00:36 because he's a TASer 12:00:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the former would be useful for vault authors, the latter for botters etc 12:00:57 ...the tas guys have a lot of documents on usable glitches and rng... 12:01:07 admittedly only for the Popular games 12:01:10 yes, it would indeed be very useful as lua is kind of a dark art (as the perception goes) 12:01:18 <|amethyst> theTower: but Grunt is doing a TAS of crawl dev 12:01:32 <|amethyst> theTower: so documenting lua functions counts as in-game time 12:01:32 you know he just might be doing that 12:01:33 what's the tool 12:01:46 maybe it's PleasingFungus ? 12:01:51 we can't know for sure 12:02:25 a C++ compioer or three 12:02:26 obv 12:02:29 s/oer/ler/ 12:03:01 !learn add objstat obstat todo: table for spells and spell schools like we do weapon/armour egos; don't print buggy rings; don't print monster rows for monster not in the branch; monster band info 12:03:01 objstat[4/4]: obstat todo: table for spells and spell schools like we do weapon/armour egos; don't print buggy rings; don't print monster rows for monster not in the branch; monster band info 12:04:16 !learn edit objstat[4] s/$/; default settings for "3-rune" and 15-rune"? 12:04:17 objstat[4/4]: obstat todo: table for spells and spell schools like we do weapon/armour egos; don't print buggy rings; don't print monster rows for monster not in the branch; monster band info; default settings for "3-rune" and 15-rune"? 12:05:40 with what, a presumed average floor count in pan 12:06:01 gammafunk: calling me a tool is not very nice. 12:06:06 yeah Pan and Abyss are hard; I ommit them from AllLevels but make sheets for Abyss:1-5 and Pan 12:06:10 PleasingFungus: you're a pleasing tool tho! 12:06:23 ... 12:06:25 rip 12:06:32 Pan sheet is just e.g. 1k iterations of a pan level 12:07:05 I bet Hells:1-6 still give results 12:07:12 there's at least one stupid vault left 12:07:27 oh you're talkign mapstat I think 12:07:34 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:07:34 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:42 for objstat there's lots of data about those, and those are included in alllevels 12:07:55 no, I mean "there isn't supposed to be floor items in hells:1-6 but there's at least one vault that puts those the 12:08:10 yeah well it's about monsters as well, remember 12:08:18 oh right, I also just remember my own tendency to use useless decorative floor items argh 12:08:19 "objstat" means "items and monsters" 12:08:52 or "object" does rather, since I couldn't think of a better term for "items and monsters" 12:09:01 spawnstat 12:09:06 heh 12:09:08 I like it 12:09:16 but do vaults not spawn? 12:09:23 e.g the walls and features 12:09:23 floorspawn 12:09:29 fountains?! 12:09:37 (you could argue vaults are objects, too...) 12:09:41 yep 12:09:48 junkstat 12:09:51 garbagestat 12:09:54 Haven't there been numerous hacks to make the "average" pan visit 27 floors? 12:09:54 interactstat 12:10:10 that's average four unrand lords 12:10:17 demonic rune is demonic rune 12:11:02 not even sure that we can lm/lg that, since 12:11:09 !lm . br=pan s=milestone 12:11:09 219 milestones for gammafunk (br=pan): 45x entered Pandemonium., 14x found a demonic rune of Zot., 14x found a magical rune of Zot., 14x entered the realm of Lom Lobon., 13x found a glowing rune of Zot., 13x entered the realm of Mnoleg., 12x found a dark rune of Zot., 12x found a fiery rune of Zot., 12x entered the realm of Gloorx Vloq., 12x entered the realm of Cerebov., 12x killed Mnoleg., 11x k... 12:11:20 yeah no mileston for entering a level 12:11:31 you'd have to examine the morgues/ttyrecs 12:16:02 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:16:16 solution 12:16:40 if the demonic rune hasn't been acquired after all 4 pan lord runes have been taken, the next level puts you on HELLION ISLAND 12:17:35 what if you teleport and decide to go to the next level after living somehow (I dunno, ddoor) 12:17:44 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:48 does the next floor also have hellion island (yes.) 12:18:23 Or, if the demoic rune is so rare, we could just incrase the spawn rates of demoic rune vaults in general. 12:18:40 like, say, one every floor 12:19:23 I personally don't mind finding the demonic rune much these days, as you can scope out pan lord vaults pretty easilly; The abyssal rune annoys me more 12:20:34 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: lates] 12:20:35 I still think the abyss should react to somebody slaughtering its denizens (in some turns versus kills ratio) by offering a stair downward so you can speed things up 12:20:48 (it takes no time at all to find the rune if you can tolerate abyss:5...) 12:20:50 down or out 12:21:17 lower floors also have more exits! 12:21:18 well statistically it takes not long 12:21:33 there's always that chance of it taking 1000 turns to find it 12:21:38 yeah, perhaps it could help; I did go down to abyss:4 but didn't stumble into the rune and just god bogged down in more unwanted fighting despite efforts to avoid 12:21:40 just stay out of abyss until have =tele 12:21:41 and then there being no exits for another thousand 12:21:47 PleasingFungus: Any updates on the mysterous case of the missing armour spawns? 12:21:49 then keep spamming it and boom, rune 12:21:59 reaverb: seems to have been statistical noise, probably 12:22:00 that's probably a fairly idea strategy 12:22:08 that or have lots of stealth so you can avoid more easilly 12:22:11 even the crystal plate stuff? 12:22:39 kvaak: I'll try just wearing/using =tele next time though 12:22:48 do that 12:22:52 I tend to do that a lot when I'm banished early and want to escape 12:22:58 less so when I'm actually looking for rune 12:23:00 it's basically impossible to die when you do that 12:23:15 yeah I'd imagine so; you'd need a super-awful teleport 12:23:44 which may not even be possible to get? don't know if it can spawn you e.g. in a rune vault 12:24:43 the vaults themselves could be off-limits but i've managed to teleport to apport range at least 12:24:59 PleasingFungus: So ever the crystal plate armour reduction appears to be statistical noise now? 12:25:02 s/ever/even/ 12:25:05 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:25:19 I think so. 12:25:25 Not sure. 12:25:30 apport range with the abomination spam vault?? 12:25:31 well PleasingFungus just made the dungeon completely awash in cpa like up to the players eyes because of his latest vault 12:25:40 rip 12:26:09 you mean like how I made the dungeon completely awash in deep elf blademaster with cutlasses of flaming and freezing in cpa 12:26:40 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:44 probably! 12:27:01 good 12:27:03 someone has to 12:27:24 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:27:44 watch as I then produce ancient champions in, uh.. 12:27:50 !tell wheals fr: make gyre & gimble alternate flame/freezing brands, purely for aesthetic reasons (and also to reck dith worshippers???) 12:27:51 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 12:28:00 they're gold clearly they get gold dragon armour 12:28:16 0.37 cpa on average in a 3-rune game, for a recentish 0.16, min 0 max 4 12:28:48 <|amethyst> too bad that 4-CPA game was wasted on objstat 12:28:55 it would be rather worrying for a lot of items to have a min 1 >_> 12:28:56 <|amethyst> rather than, say, a Spriggan 12:29:00 2.67 de blademasters, min 0 max 8 12:29:04 |amethyst: or an ogre 12:29:07 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 12:29:23 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:28 an octopode 12:29:40 PleasingFungus: I think something like Distortion/Vampiric w/Holy wrath would be cute for gyre & gimble. 12:29:47 12:29:47 yeah, it's interesting, no book in the game has a min of one 12:29:51 holy vampires?? 12:29:52 reaverb: what 12:29:53 why 12:29:54 I guess that's what we'd want 12:30:35 you could see as few as 9 spellbooks and as many as 109 12:30:41 huh 12:30:43 dang 12:30:52 good variance: sd of 13.52 12:31:02 !vault lost_library 12:31:02 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/abyss.des;hb=HEAD#l467 12:31:08 <|amethyst> what's the mean? 12:31:13 46.57 12:31:22 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:25 randbook numspells:1 <3 12:31:33 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:35 PleasingFungus: Just an idea similar to the Freezing/Flaming contrast. 12:32:04 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:32:06 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:32:06 so I'm very confused 12:32:11 you have distortion on one blade 12:32:18 and vampiric AND holy wrath on the other? 12:32:25 <|amethyst> no 12:32:30 <|amethyst> distortion or vampiric on one 12:32:32 <|amethyst> holy on the other 12:32:36 Yeah ^ 12:32:39 o 12:32:42 distortion is not very counter holy 12:32:43 that was confusingly phrased 12:32:45 well disto doesn't...yeah 12:32:57 drain or vamp vs holy 12:32:58 distortion/silver would be opposites 12:33:00 since zin 12:33:04 but who cares about silver 12:33:07 nah 12:33:12 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 12:33:21 clearly give on construct slaying and the other plant slaying 12:33:23 tiamat, klowns, orbs of fire, demonspawn, 12:33:24 since we have neither! 12:33:26 Yeah, I just meant that an "unholy" brand on one w/holy wrath on the other. 12:33:29 *one 12:33:53 obviously it should be reaping. 12:34:07 reaverb: well disto would be a bad choice for that I think; chaos would work if disto does. vamp/drain would be the logical choices 12:34:08 <|amethyst> reaping/disruption 12:34:32 plantslaying would be an incredibly stupid but funny brand for pruneglaive 12:34:47 what would Basil think 12:34:51 Yeah, vampire/draining would probably be the best brands for that. 12:34:52 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: should be on a scythe though 12:35:08 finally, the Farmer background concept is becoming clearer! 12:35:11 we probably don't need more artefact scythes 12:35:13 but does a fungus count as a plant 12:35:28 canonically, no. but also, yes. 12:35:38 fungus (15P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 8 | HP: 33-55 | AC/EV: 1/0 | 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 12:35:38 %??fungus 12:35:39 50% effective vs f 12:35:53 50% effective versus moving plants??? 12:36:06 well it can be 100% vs P 12:36:09 I would probably just buff the damage versus plant holiness monsters if I was going to implement this. 12:36:27 sadly I don't think plant slaying 12:36:30 will ever be a thing 12:36:30 fr rename the holiness to... "flora"? 12:36:40 surely there's something better encompassing 12:36:49 botany slaying 12:37:08 <|amethyst> +12 demon trident of the Haybale 12:37:11 I think plant slaying would actually be reasonably relevant in the swamp, not sure about anywhere else. 12:37:25 all those lair oklobs 12:37:32 also it counters curse toes! 12:37:43 reaverb: fyi, we are making one big long craw-dev jokeright now 12:37:45 <|amethyst> too bad death cobs can't be plant/undead 12:37:51 why not 12:37:54 deathcap (13f) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 40-66 | AC/EV: 5/0 | Dam: 3313(confuse) | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 625 | Sp: drain life [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 12:37:54 %??deathcap 12:38:03 ...oh, they're just undead 12:38:15 <|amethyst> yeah, nothing is *really* multi-holiness 12:38:19 <|amethyst> a few things have pretended 12:38:25 Holiness might work better as a bit field. 12:38:30 antaeus? 12:38:43 he was probably always just demonic 12:38:50 antaeus just shifted from natural to demonic without ever being stuck in one 12:38:50 Antaeus (11C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 700 | AC/EV: 28/4 | Dam: 7512(cold:22-65), 3012(cold:22-65) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 10elec++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.lightning (3d25) [06!sil], flash freeze (3d29) [06!sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 12:38:50 %??antaeus 12:39:03 <|amethyst> reaverb: there's still the difficulty of deciding how they should combine 12:39:07 there is a comment somewhere that he was made demonic so he wouldn't get tormented 12:39:40 man I forgot he has a second dam:30 attack 12:39:46 did that change also? 12:39:54 <|amethyst> reaverb: e.g. if a check currently says MH_LIVING || MH_PLANT || MH_HOLY || MH_DEMON does it really mean "has one of those four" or does it actually mean "not undead or nonliving" 12:40:23 obviously it's to get in more cold 12:40:43 !lg * ikiller=antaeus s=kaux 12:40:43 |amethyst: Oh, yeah, that would need to be reviewed if it was going to become a bitfield. 12:40:43 232 games for * (ikiller=antaeus): 115x, 41x bolt of lightning, 22x flash freeze, 7x bolt of cold, 2x a +0,+0 battleaxe of freezing, 2x an uncursed staff of poison, a +0,+0 lajatang, a +1,+1 vampiric scythe, an uncursed staff of death, a +1,+2 scythe of venom, a +0,+0 long sword of slicing, the +8,+7 lajatang of Mnyczus {freeze, +Rage rC++ MR++ SInv}, a +0,+1 long sword, a +0,+0 trident, a +3 cutl... 12:40:51 !lg * ikiller=antaeus s=ckaux 12:40:51 232 games for * (ikiller=antaeus): 115x, 41x bolt of lightning, 22x flash freeze, 7x bolt of cold, 5x battleaxe of freezing, 2x great sword of electrocution, 2x staff of poison, 2x scythe of venom, 2x great mace, quarterstaff of crushing, scythe of flaming, halberd of dragon slaying, bardiche, long sword of slicing, long sword, staff of energy, the glaive of Watchfulness, ankus, the falchion "Ghew... 12:41:01 ankus 12:41:05 heh 12:41:24 !lg * ikiller=antaeus ckaux= max=dam x=dam,tdam 12:41:25 115. [dam=96;tdam=0] DrPraetor the Sorcerer (L27 HEWz of Sif Muna), mangled by Antaeus on Coc:7 on 2009-02-28 12:37:15, with 584544 points after 153400 turns and 23:02:07. 12:41:35 antaeus with a scythe of dragonslaying from a reaper against a dr... 12:41:43 <|amethyst> reaverb: but, yeah, there has been discussion about it 12:41:46 well I did ckaux= 12:42:00 !lg * ikiller=antaeus max=dam x=dam,tdam 12:42:01 232. [dam=96;tdam=0] DrPraetor the Sorcerer (L27 HEWz of Sif Muna), mangled by Antaeus on Coc:7 on 2009-02-28 12:37:15, with 584544 points after 153400 turns and 23:02:07. 12:42:02 the results are cut off! 12:42:19 clearly make antaeus not demonic so you can use simulacrum on his corpse 12:42:20 :v 12:42:29 Grunt: I am glad you were able to implement it before I even got around to vandalize the Mantis. :p I was thinking about it for a while. 12:42:42 sadly you can't simulacrum chunks to use that in any meaningful way 12:42:50 <|amethyst> reaverb: I kind of like the idea of making the bits more fine-grained than currently ("MH_VULN_HOLY", "MH_VULN_DRAIN", "MH_ALIVE", etc) then defining the current holinesses as combinations of those 12:43:04 sounds 12:43:06 abominable 12:43:30 |amethyst : Hmm, that's an interesting thought. 12:45:07 While you are talking about chunks, is it okay if I ask you a question about one of the past design decisions having to do with this? 12:45:12 gammafunk: ^ 12:45:24 I declare it....."ok" 12:45:27 somebody: asking questions is absolutely unacceptable. 12:45:35 but, go for it. 12:45:48 PleasingFungus: Under the penalty of making the secretly RNG dislike you?! 12:46:00 oh, we already did that, 12:46:15 somebody: try using !rng with xom in an entry, for instance 12:46:18 Why does Sublimation of Blood not work on corpses? 12:46:21 learn from my mistakes, people 12:46:26 gammafunk: Oh, I did that. 12:46:34 because it'd give massive amounts of mp 12:47:00 Maybe it can be balanced by scaling it down, maybe by HD and recency of kill? 12:47:02 I mean it could give you like "one chunk's worth" of mp 12:47:14 <|amethyst> "could have been balanced" 12:47:16 gammafunk: Oh, that would be awesome as it is. 12:47:22 <|amethyst> it doesn't even take chunks now, why would it take corpses? 12:47:35 -!- cr0ne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:37 |amethyst: There's blood inside? 12:47:44 there's blood inside enemies 12:47:44 well you could argue that it could do that, yeah, but 12:47:51 why shouldn't it work on them? 12:48:11 It can work only on recently slain creatures, "while their blood is still hot". 12:48:39 Or, it could not work on anyone but the caster. 12:48:59 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3017-gbb0f880: Improve comments in _get_random_armour_type() (|amethyst) 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 50+ 47-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb0f8807088e 12:48:59 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3018-g71d3e63: Move _get_random_armour_type() 10(29 minutes ago, 1 file, 96+ 98-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=71d3e63ddc52 12:49:02 I think the consensus view was that the overal balance and lack of tedium is best with self sublim 12:49:02 <|amethyst> %git 603939 12:49:02 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-2209-g603939a: Make Sublimation of Blood only effective when cast on the player 10(5 months ago, 12 files, 85+ 158-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=603939af70ec 12:49:08 <|amethyst> err 12:49:11 <|amethyst> oh 12:49:21 using a corpse removes some of the UI issue, but there's still the issue of what's balanced for a low-level spell like that 12:49:22 Ha-ha, well, there can be L9 Necromancy spell, or a Kiku 4* ability that would sublimate blood of still living enemies in the LOS, with predictably fatal results, but this is not what I am arguing for. 12:49:47 gammafunk: The issue I am taking with it is that you have just massively downgraded Kiku for me. 12:49:52 reaverb: "generally if the player will find at least one copy of these by the Lair." 12:49:54 reaverb: what does this mean? 12:49:56 * somebody is taking it personally. 12:50:27 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:43 ...Don't players generally find at least one plate amour (and robe etc.) by the Lair? I was trying to describe how common those are with in-game terms. 12:50:57 somebody: hrm, I think corpse drop sublim would be a fairly tedious thing, but kiku has this general kind of problem of "what do we let theh player do with corpses that's not tedious in terms of optimal play" 12:51:00 I'm confused by your use of the word "if" 12:51:09 WhaTthere's and if. 12:51:25 Sorry, I think that's a typo, let me check. 12:51:37 gammafunk: Well, maybe it could work like demonspawn Regen+, only on corpses the caster have slain personally. 12:51:51 <|amethyst> that could be a new spell 12:51:57 <|amethyst> I don't think it should go on Sublim 12:52:06 we can call it the spell "worship vehumet" 12:52:09 |amethyst: Okay, this is a fair point. 12:52:26 PleasingFungus: How much do players even use Kiku's Torment? 12:52:38 if they're undead, a lot 12:52:40 somebody: ? 12:52:41 <|amethyst> !lg * kiku won -log 12:52:42 984. ManMan, XL27 TeVM, T:113128: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/ManMan/morgue-ManMan-20141206-071723.txt 12:52:57 !lg * kiku won -log -2 12:52:58 983/984. elmdor, XL27 VpEn, T:97925: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/elmdor/morgue-elmdor-20141203-000433.txt 12:53:09 six times there 12:53:26 I think there's been the idea that Kiku might need some love, but I don't know what current plans exist 12:53:26 PleasingFungus: Okay. I get it. Maybe it is only that I was under-using it. 12:53:37 PleasingFungus: Yeah, that's a typo, removing it. 12:53:38 Thanks. 12:53:40 idk that i use it much either, but it's also kind of a non sequitur 12:53:47 <|amethyst> reaverb: change the , to ; while you're at it 12:54:07 gammafunk: I think there's a problem that by the time you get to Necromutation, living enemies are not *that* much of a challenge. 12:54:07 <|amethyst> reaverb: or a . 12:54:28 somebody: it's basically an ability that's very useful for undead species, not so much for others 12:54:36 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 37.0a1/20141202030201]] 12:54:42 kiku does have a very strong undead theme obviously, so this is not nec. a problem 12:54:43 gammafunk: Yes, I guess I am just upset with it since I like to play DE. 12:55:17 it might be nice if the ability was maybe catered to your holiness, but idk 12:55:29 gammafunk: Still, I can't help but briefly entertain a fantasy that it could be change, or made better, by "Sublimating the Blood" of the living things in the LOS for caster's benefit, while still damaging them. 12:55:44 <|amethyst> well, even without being undead you are doing proportionally more damage to enemies than to yourself 12:55:55 -!- muravey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55:59 I don't know whether it will be less or more thematically appropriate. 12:56:10 |amethyst: Sure. 12:56:14 wouldn't that be a free mp spell 12:56:15 sure, it can be situationally ok to use but its use for natural holiness players is just inherently risky 12:56:18 |amethyst: Sure, this is true. I agree that I have been using it wrong. 12:56:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:32 theTower: There's always a possibility for piety cost. 12:56:34 an ability like what somebody is describing would cost piety, I'm sure 12:56:58 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:04 gammafunk: Yes, please. Take my piety, give me awesome MP steeped in dark magics. 12:57:07 some kind of analogue of yred's drain life 12:57:09 actually no my ques 12:57:11 yes that 12:57:20 gammafunk: That was the idea. 12:57:44 seems like a substantial buff to the god of quick good spells and pain brand 12:57:46 I've thought about making kiku automatically replace MP costs with draining costs if you're out of MP. 12:57:50 somebody: well, if you like, you might post the idea to gdd on tavern, and see how much duvessa or crate hate it 12:58:12 not like there's much piety pressure with kiku after a while 12:58:48 <|amethyst> I felt piety pressure when I abused TR with Kiku 12:58:56 <|amethyst> but that's not a thing anymore 12:58:57 rip 12:58:57 rip 12:59:06 wow, ninjad sequell 12:59:35 gammafunk: Maybe I'll do this, or post it to the Wiki, instead. 12:59:54 The wiki isn't really the best place to get feedback. 13:00:03 ugh, I've split my brain into too many places, I can only think of Toxic Radiance 13:00:10 GDD has more activity. 13:00:11 <|amethyst> but it's a nice place to have it all written down so you can ask for feedback elsewhere 13:00:20 Yeah, I think of it more like an archive. 13:00:22 reaverb: Okay, but what is GDD? 13:00:24 (trick room...?) 13:00:37 somebody: It's a forum on the Tavern. 13:00:37 <|amethyst> somebody: Game Design Discussion, on tavern under "Back Room" 13:00:40 somebody: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewforum.php?f=8 13:00:49 Okay, thanks everyone. 13:03:51 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:16 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3019-gebc0875: Make a comment clearer (PleasingFungus, |amethyst) 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ebc087590311 13:05:09 Aaa! I have just read more about mechanics of Cigotuvi's Embrace and my objection to usefulness of Kiku's piety have dramatically decreased. 13:05:17 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:40 piety isn't necessarily a resource with a bunch of gods anyway 13:06:43 ??god list 13:06:43 gods[2/2]: Ashenzari, Beogh, Cheibriados, Dithmenos, Elyvilon, Fedhas, Gozag, Jiyva, Kikubaaqudgha, Lugonu, Makhleb, Nemelex Xobeh, Okawaru, Qazlal, Ru, Sif Muna, Trog, Vehumet, Xom, Yredelemnul, Zin, the Shining One. 13:07:07 well it's not a bad thing that this spell is good with kiku, we also don't want the utility of a god to be highly linked with a spell the player may never receive 13:07:12 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:36 or receive too late even if they do receive it 13:07:36 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:07:37 said about the god who vaguely literally guarantees specific spells >_> 13:08:10 that's fine, but is kiku only good/useful if you get those spells? 13:08:39 those are basically "here's some extra spells from kiku" vs "you kind of need this spell to use kiku well" 13:08:43 <|amethyst> corpse drop is only useful if you have a spell that uses corpses 13:08:51 <|amethyst> and kiku guarantees spells that use corpses 13:08:57 <|amethyst> at least one in each book 13:09:05 <|amethyst> (except necronomicon) 13:09:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:09:33 corpse drop isn't only useful if you have said spells 13:09:34 -!- reaverb1 is now known as raverb 13:09:37 -!- raverb is now known as reaverb 13:09:43 <|amethyst> sorry, is most useful 13:10:08 <|amethyst> or have PbP 13:10:22 yeah, you will almost certainly get a spell that can make allies from corpses with kiku 13:10:32 it's not almost certainly you'll get cig's embrace 13:10:39 *almost certain 13:10:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: 50% of animate dead or cigo's embrace 13:10:43 How useful is saccing a corpse to Torment? I've never really used it >_> 13:10:50 <|amethyst> 100% of corpse rot 13:10:56 <|amethyst> those are the two guarantees 13:11:26 <|amethyst> there are other slots that might or might not be corpse-using 13:11:41 |amethyst: yeah, and that's coherent, my reaction was saying that we don't way to just say "oh kiku piety usage if fine because cig's embrace exists" 13:11:58 since you may not get this spell 13:12:00 <|amethyst> I guess that's true 13:12:13 <|amethyst> if it's that much better than animate dead maybe something should be done about animate dead 13:13:41 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:13:48 (...animate dead is kind of really good innately...) 13:14:17 reaverb: previously discussed, obvious undead applications at minimum 13:14:51 theTower: Oops, surprised I missed that. Reading the logs. 13:14:56 !learn add reserved_clan_names Obvious Undead Applications [gammafunk] 13:14:56 reserved clan names[7/7]: Obvious Undead Applications [gammafunk] 13:14:57 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:01 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 13:15:41 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:15:53 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:58 oblivious undead applications 13:16:08 The Crawl equivalent of "Good Name for a Rock Band" 13:16:17 I guess that how a zombie applying for a job would be 13:17:08 -!- Siegurt has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:27 <|amethyst> "So why are you qualified to be a forensics lab technician?" "BRAAAAIIINNNS" "I see, and when can you start?" 13:21:53 -!- Maera has left ##crawl-dev 13:22:37 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:00 -!- weezeface has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:28 gammafunk: Ha-ha. 13:26:43 * somebody thinks that Irradiate is awesome. Crawl is getting better. 13:28:09 -!- weezeface has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:17 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:33:51 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33:52 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:59 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:37 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:48 -!- chukamok_ is now known as chukamok 13:37:52 |amethyst: are you here? 13:37:54 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:20 <|amethyst> what's up? 13:40:43 if I chose to instead generate the config 13:40:47 rather than modifying it 13:40:53 how reliable would this method be? 13:41:04 is it likely that things would go completly haywire in the future? 13:41:19 Because I don't want to make a regex to cover 200 lines of config. 13:41:19 <|amethyst> you'd need to choose or write a template language probably 13:41:43 <|amethyst> so you have a way to provide the skeleton as data rather than in code 13:41:48 question, are our config-files parsable in any way? 13:41:49 I think chequers might do something like this already 13:41:55 but he's using webtiles-changes 13:42:03 Hmmm 13:42:09 !send webtiles-changes the rest of the servers 13:42:09 Sending the rest of the servers to webtiles-changes. 13:42:10 <|amethyst> TZer0: which config files are you talking about? 13:42:13 well yeah, I kind of want that 13:42:20 dgamelaunch for instance. 13:42:42 <|amethyst> dgamelaunch can parse it, probably nothing else does 13:42:53 <|amethyst> webtiles config is python code 13:43:00 yeah, exactly 13:43:03 <|amethyst> (pre-wt-changes) 13:43:03 mhh. 13:43:08 Okay. 13:43:16 wt-changes uses TOML 13:43:17 So, I'll write config-generators for both 13:43:23 -!- serq has quit [Quit: und weg...] 13:43:32 for webtiles only, that is 13:43:35 and I'll tell chequers to really let me know before webtiles-changes is pulled into master 13:43:52 let you know how he does things? 13:44:10 mh, more like telling me that he is pulling it in 13:44:14 so that I can look through the format 13:44:27 TZer0: chequers isn't a dev, he just runs cpo 13:44:29 and change my generator to use TOML and output something the new webtiles-server can parse 13:44:30 !tell PleasingFungus < Piginabag> robin can throw sleeping goblins and they stay asleep when they land lol 13:44:31 Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 13:44:31 <|amethyst> TZer0: johnstein has webtiles-changes running 13:44:37 <|amethyst> TZer0: on dbro 13:44:41 edlothiol is the dev behind webtiles-changes for the most part 13:44:50 oh 13:45:04 mkay 13:45:04 Grunt: robin is a very gentle tosser. 13:45:05 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:45:07 !messages 13:45:07 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (1h 17m 16s ago): fr: make gyre & gimble alternate flame/freezing brands, purely for aesthetic reasons (and also to reck dith worshippers???) 13:45:22 <|amethyst> TZer0: it can't go into master until the wt-changes server is already running on all the servers 13:45:23 that sounds hard to display well 13:45:24 oh no, another wheals unique? 13:45:30 We barely survived the last one 13:45:33 wwwhhheeeaaalllsss 13:45:41 gyre and gimble are the dual-wielding unrand on mantis 13:45:45 *is 13:45:47 <|amethyst> TZer0: the first step would be to separate updating trunk from updating webtiles 13:45:48 |amethyst: why not? 13:46:07 <|amethyst> TZer0: because it will require config changes on all the servers 13:46:29 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:46:39 Well, yes, but how are we going to do that? 13:46:52 .. we should get everyone on IRC or a mailing list 13:46:56 <|amethyst> I was supposed to be working on this, but no time 13:47:03 !send |amethyst time 13:47:03 Sending time to |amethyst. 13:47:03 <|amethyst> on CSZO and CAO first 13:47:06 !send |amethyst Step From Time 13:47:06 Sending Step From Time to |amethyst. 13:47:20 <|amethyst> you could do clan first instead 13:47:24 |amethyst: would it be useful to try to merge master in webtiles-changes? 13:47:33 not sure how edlothiol feels about that 13:47:45 !send No Time Grunt 13:47:45 Sending Grunt to No Time. 13:47:51 !send nowhere wheals 13:47:51 Sending wheals to nowhere. 13:48:00 (Go to nowhere. Are you sure?) 13:48:05 !send (0,0) Grunt 13:48:05 Sending Grunt to (0,0). 13:48:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it would be useful to do just before we start at least 13:48:19 ok 13:48:50 <|amethyst> TZer0: I have something here in my stash, moment 13:48:51 !send Void Grunt 13:48:51 Sending Grunt to Void. 13:48:54 <|amethyst> TZer0: it's not complete 13:49:59 Grunt removed Void 13:50:06 rip 13:50:28 You draw a card... It is the Void. You feel strangely empty. 13:50:56 actually 13:50:58 !send Grunt an infinite demon 13:50:58 Sending an infinite demon to Grunt. 13:51:03 well, that would be a good name for Wraith 13:51:04 dang. 13:51:11 <|amethyst> TZer0: http://dobrazupa.org/patches/dglconfig-Separate_webtiles_install_from_trunk.diff 13:51:14 since Wraith and Wrath are kinda stupidly similiar for a bad joke? 13:51:24 * theTower shrirks 13:51:25 You draw a card... It is Wraith Wrath. 13:51:25 fr Wart card 13:51:43 ruth card 13:51:45 <|amethyst> TZer0: incomplete and untested, but at least that's the general idea 13:51:47 You draw a card... It is Wrai?th. 13:51:47 ru wrath 13:52:00 !send wheals the terrible wrath of No God 13:52:00 Sending the terrible wrath of No God to wheals. 13:52:05 oh 13:52:16 gammafunk: did you ever run mapstat on that patch I made the other day? 13:52:22 que? 13:52:25 which patch 13:52:28 guess not 13:52:34 gammafunk: it was a patch to place stairs after all vaults 13:52:43 nice, no didn't see it 13:52:46 but I can run it 13:52:48 which I didn't have time to test before I left for work yesterday 13:52:53 I have time now, so I'll just run it myself :) 13:52:57 but 13:53:02 <|amethyst> TZer0: then we generate the new configs somehow, switch the server to webtiles-changes branch, and at some point everyone does that, we can put webtiles-changes in trunk and have everyone switch webtiles back to trunk 13:53:03 I'll give you the diff so you can too! 13:53:17 <|amethyst> TZer0: that way, in the meantime, other servers at least have the old webtiles server in trunk 13:53:17 but are you a bad enough dude to map the stats? 13:53:17 http://sprunge.us/hNjI 13:53:31 <|amethyst> TZer0: ones that haven't updated yet 13:54:03 <|amethyst> TZer0: I'd like to make the version list etc into data in a metaconfig 13:54:19 !seen _jordan_ 13:54:19 I last saw _Jordan_ at Sun Dec 7 05:20:13 2014 UTC (14h 34m 5s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Leaving'. 13:54:27 <|amethyst> TZer0: then we could have an UI for devs etc to request experimental branches 13:54:39 <|amethyst> TZer0: and automatically add new stable versions 13:56:06 maybe we should add another table to the database we already have 13:56:39 <|amethyst> yeah, I guess it could be in the db if we have at least a command-line UI to change it 13:56:54 <|amethyst> I mean, other than sqlite3 client :) 13:56:56 and have a system that reads the database-table, generates config-files, updates any lacking versions 13:56:56 and pushes the config 13:57:44 meaning.. I need access to the dgamelaunch-repo 13:58:06 this table shouldn't interfere with the rest of the system 13:58:21 <|amethyst> yeah... probably ultimately that config shouldn't be in the repo 13:58:44 and I'll make it so that it will automatically generate menus, configs and more perhaps 13:59:06 <|amethyst> excellent... I was kind of tinkering with a syntax for some of that but never got far 13:59:33 what should the table contain? 13:59:52 <|amethyst> hm 13:59:58 should it be as simple as name - glyph (for dgamelaunch-menus) - order ? 14:00:06 <|amethyst> I think we need more than that 14:00:06 -!- muravey has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:33 what else? 14:01:50 <|amethyst> branch name, description to use menus, one-letter abbreviation for menus, maybe a flag for sprint 14:01:59 <|amethyst> various directories can be based on just the branch name 14:02:17 <|amethyst> though maybe we want to split that into git branch name and local directory name 14:02:23 glyph (for dgamelaunch-menus) 14:02:24 <|amethyst> so it can be stone_soup-0.15, 0.15 14:02:25 :P 14:02:37 <|amethyst> TZer0: that's what I meant by "one-letter abbreviation" 14:02:48 ... I had that in my suggestion 14:02:55 <|amethyst> oh 14:03:11 <|amethyst> I was giving the full list of everything I found in my template drafts 14:03:17 ah. 14:03:25 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:03:39 <|amethyst> oh, also a glyph for sprint, if sprint is enabled 14:05:03 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 14:05:55 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:22 what should the table be named? 14:06:45 mh, maybe this should be a "patch" to the current version db 14:06:47 don't call it "table" 14:06:48 Grunt: well it run, but didn't seem to affect vetoes at all 14:06:50 *ran 14:06:53 dang 14:06:54 rip 14:06:59 or perhaps we should just put it into a separate db 14:07:01 1) Depths:1 (301 of 401 vetoed, 75.06%) 14:07:01 2) Depths:2 (266 of 366 vetoed, 72.68%) 14:07:01 3) Depths:3 (225 of 325 vetoed, 69.23%) 14:07:01 4) Depths:4 (222 of 322 vetoed, 68.94%) 14:07:03 pretty sad 14:07:10 <|amethyst> TZer0: I think it should be a separate table, probably in the version db 14:07:17 Veto reasons: 14:07:18 205) Isolated areas with no stairs. 14:07:58 |amethyst: could you add creation of said table? 14:08:06 and then the rest zones with specific vault choices 14:08:11 *are zones 14:08:15 I wonder if some layouts are more prone to vetos than others 14:08:22 Do Depths floors really veto over 2/3rds of generated levels. 14:08:27 <|amethyst> TZer0: I'm not even sure where it's created now 14:08:30 yeah they do 14:08:37 |amethyst: crawl-build 14:08:37 I wonder 14:08:38 it's due to the constant standard vault placement 14:08:42 <|amethyst> ah, I see, crawl-build/version-db-schema.sql 14:08:46 and yeah probably some are, but it seems clear that most layout/vault combinations are prone to vetos 14:08:49 yup. 14:09:00 also depths is given the largest of vaults 14:09:08 what would happen if we replaced that veto with a dprf and checked what the resulting levels looked like 14:09:21 I think it would be insightful. 14:09:24 yeah you'll see the zones; I've done that before 14:09:44 What I've been trying to figure out how to do for ages is: 14:10:01 update the vault place picker to try to place vaults in such a fashion that it does not break the level into multiple regions 14:10:14 I have been unable to think of a good way to do that. 14:10:27 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3020-g86458c4: Rename some Gozag constants for clarity. 10(2 days ago, 6 files, 46+ 46-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=86458c485a1a 14:10:27 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3021-gefe9c09: Orange rat -> hell rat. 10(2 days ago, 21 files, 44+ 43-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efe9c092bd3f 14:10:27 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3022-g2cf2ab9: Simplify stabbing when not using a short blade. 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 21+ 68-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2cf2ab92471e 14:10:27 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3023-g86d58f6: Remove most race-based special cases in starting gear. 10(20 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=86d58f692e81 14:10:27 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3024-g1a4725c: Improve tree-door interaction (#9299). 10(19 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a4725ceef93 14:10:27 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3025-g4939d66: Confiscate Maurice's time machine (#9309). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4939d66a1aa2 14:10:36 HELL RAT 14:10:42 * wheals roars! 14:10:57 yeah, since it basically just slaps the vault down, trying to not override any tile that's flagged as covering a vault already 14:10:59 hell... rat 14:11:01 nooooooooooooooooo 14:11:06 Maurice isn't a time traveller any more 14:11:07 rip 14:11:10 !send HELL RAT VAULT Grunt 14:11:11 Sending Grunt to HELL RAT VAULT. 14:11:15 hell rat 14:11:17 really wheals 14:11:30 wwwhhheeeaaalllsss 14:11:32 if you all don't stay quiet 14:11:35 i will rename to megarat 14:11:41 ! 14:11:53 you didn't even let us bikeshed the orange dev rat 14:12:16 tisk tisk tisk 14:12:25 Bad Rat 14:12:25 yes, post facto bikeshedding is the best way to do so 14:12:28 not even moving the hell rat korean description to stay alphabetical 14:12:37 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:37 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:41 why is it so hard to keep order 14:13:12 |amethyst: your ideas for an mprf buffer would definitely make 4939d66 better, i think 14:13:23 %git 4939d66 14:13:23 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-3025-g4939d66: Confiscate Maurice's time machine (#9309). 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4939d66a1aa2 14:13:27 mm 14:13:29 since currently it will tell you that he stole it even if mitm is full or something 14:13:45 (ie if monster::give_item failed) 14:14:12 take_item, rather 14:14:22 Maurice returns your useless junk. 14:14:36 Maurice demands a refund! 14:15:47 ..crap 14:15:55 i thought i fixed this 14:16:20 look like Maurice in fact 14:16:22 !glasses 14:16:22 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 14:16:25 ...stole the show 14:17:13 <|amethyst> TZer0: do you have a github account? 14:17:20 I do, it is TZer0 14:17:24 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-3026-g7fe1c7e: Fix reversed dagger stabbing logic. 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7fe1c7e26817 14:17:42 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:43 <|amethyst> TZer0: I added you as a collaborator on dgamelaunch-config 14:17:48 okay 14:17:55 reverse dagger stabbing, elite spen tech 14:18:04 <|amethyst> TZer0: (use a separate branch from szorg please) 14:18:29 ... master? 14:18:33 <|amethyst> hm 14:18:39 !learn e wheals[2] s/ruin stabbing, /the home shopping network, / 14:18:39 wheals[2/8]: todo: leeches, plague shamblers???, wind wall, the home shopping network, species-data, butchering time-taking 14:18:47 <|amethyst> hm 14:18:56 <|amethyst> I think master currently tracks snark's master 14:19:08 szorg (09T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 96 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 20, 1509(claw), 1509(claw) | 10doors, regen | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 1134 | Sp: berserker rage [11!AM, 06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 14:19:08 %??snorg name:szorg n_rpl 14:19:23 ...what is his first attack if it isn't a claw 14:19:23 <|amethyst> though there's probably no need for that anymore 14:19:28 -!- Siegurt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:35 <|amethyst> but that means it is very out of date wrt any actual serveres 14:19:35 bite, duh 14:19:39 <|amethyst> s/ere/er/ 14:19:41 what the heck why is it bite 14:19:45 I could change everything into being autogenerated 14:19:49 how does a troll bite hurt more than a troll claw 14:19:54 wheals: Home shopping network == player don't have to travel to shops to purchase items from them? 14:19:59 wow, i was joking 14:20:01 but it's true 14:20:33 troll teeth are probably sharp and full of disease 14:20:45 reaverb: no, the idea is making ctrl-f for shop items use the shopping interface (instead of a weird copy of the shopping interface) but without the ability to buy 14:20:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:21:03 wheals: Ah, That makes sense. 14:21:27 |amethyst: make some a python-script that either takes N inputs through stdin or as command-line arguments 14:21:30 haha, i like how snorg weighs 400 more aum than purgy 14:21:34 and then generating whatever is needed 14:22:00 should I? 14:22:16 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:18 ... 14:22:31 when I think about it 14:22:31 why do _all_ trolls have bites stronger than their claws 14:22:32 what the heck 14:22:33 that kind of leaves the reconfiguration issue 14:22:34 hmm 14:22:40 they're like non-plant vine stalkers 14:23:05 troll (07T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 29-50 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 20, 1509(claw), 1509(claw) | 10doors, regen | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 303 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 14:23:05 %??Troll 14:23:08 lmao 14:23:29 well, they do more claw damage than bite damage overall 14:23:29 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:23:30 probably 14:23:31 I genuinely thought it was Claw, claw, bite 14:23:39 sometimes 14:23:58 purgy does more damage with his teeth than his claws though 14:24:01 unarmed punches have strong primary and weak offhand punches 14:24:19 but why keep that logic 14:24:20 purgy is a cool dude and my friend 14:24:53 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 14:24:57 |amethyst: what if we put all of our actual config in the database? 14:25:01 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:25:13 and then generated (almost) everything based on that 14:25:20 the only exception being the chroot-path I think. 14:25:28 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:26:14 Just add another table containing string descrption, string value 14:27:12 and then added a shell script that either accepts inputs through stdin or as command-line arguments that insert non-game-info 14:27:24 and a separate utility for manipulating available branches etc. 14:27:57 <|amethyst> I usually prefer putting config in files rather than a database 14:30:10 -!- Philonous has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:30:24 -!- Philonous_ is now known as philonous 14:30:34 -!- philonous is now known as Philonous 14:32:49 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:33:20 <|amethyst> TZer0: https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/commit/cf88c92 14:33:48 <|amethyst> TZer0: this doesn't actually help for existing servers, because it doesn't re-run that sql script if the version db is already there 14:34:39 |amethyst: I know. 14:34:48 gammafunk: how cpu intense/how long is objstat 14:35:07 <|amethyst> TZer0: I did sed -e '1,/);/d' < crawl-build/version-db-schema.sql | sqlite3 /chroot/crawl-versions.db3 14:35:14 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:47 ebering: it's single-threaded but for 100 iterations will take 1-1.5 hours to generate all the 3-rune and 15-rune files, maybe 200-300mb active memory 14:36:00 for the 1k iterations I'd like to do for major release, multiply that time by 10 14:36:33 you can nice it, which is what I do on my laptop 14:36:48 gammafunk: dope I can run it on the UW csclub machines on my alumni account 14:36:52 unniced it would take less time but monopolize a core 14:37:02 heh 14:37:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: add a way to take multiple objstat output files and merge them 14:37:15 merge them? 14:37:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: add up the numbers, recompute statistics 14:37:49 gammafunk: cpu 0-63 I think this machine can be ok 14:38:08 |amethyst: I can't see why I'd want to do that? I mean I'd have to parse all that data? 14:38:10 <|amethyst> gammafunk: then you can do (ncores) runs of (1000/ncores) iterations each, and merge them together at the end 14:38:17 <|amethyst> gammafunk: mapreduce 14:38:18 |amethyst: isn't that the wrong branch? 14:38:30 ideally we would have everyone on master 14:38:36 <|amethyst> TZer0: I put it on szorg because I applied it locally 14:38:36 without modification to the code 14:38:46 |amethyst: I think for a feature that's barely getting much use at this point, going full mpi or distributed in general or w/e is overthinking it 14:39:01 <|amethyst> TZer0: yeah, but we're not there yet, and at the moment szorg is "what CSZO is running" 14:39:11 <|amethyst> TZer0: feel free to do what you want with master 14:39:12 easier to get use out of it if it can be run in a reasonable amount of time... 14:39:20 <|amethyst> TZer0: but just pushing something on current master would be wrong 14:39:28 <|amethyst> TZer0: because it's horribly out of date 14:39:36 it can be run in a reasonable amount of time for many uses? 14:39:42 <|amethyst> TZer0: could push szorg or your branch to master 14:39:45 not sure what's being debated here 14:39:59 christ 14:40:01 we just need to generate the data on a regular basis 14:40:07 99 commits ahead on szorg 14:40:20 not like optimize it or make it distributed 14:40:32 <|amethyst> TZer0: a lot of those are "change this" "unchange that" 14:40:33 fr pzurgy 14:40:50 <|amethyst> TZer0: "make 0.15 the default for the tournament", "make trunk the default again" 14:40:51 I'll just pull in all the commits from szorg 14:40:53 then start working. 14:41:15 <|amethyst> TZer0: so, yes, having the repo hold only config skeletons, and putting config elsewhere, would be nice 14:41:40 Can anyone give me a few pointers about how does the rc parser thing understand regular expressions? I can't seem to find the explanation in the rc help file and my best guesses don't always work. 14:41:41 <|amethyst> s/skeletons/examples/ 14:41:54 <|amethyst> somebody: it depends on your build 14:42:05 yeah 14:42:21 |amethyst: I am running CLAN web tiles. 14:42:23 <|amethyst> somebody: is this on a server (which?) or locally (what OS and did you build crawl yourself?) 14:42:36 there are a bunch of other changes as well 14:42:40 <|amethyst> TZer0: do you build with PCRE on CLAN? 14:42:58 -!- Sharkman1231_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:43:10 somebody: uhh 14:43:10 no you're not :D 14:43:28 TZer0: Oh, yeah. Thank you for reminding me! 14:43:30 unsure to be honest. 14:43:33 hmm 14:44:02 <|amethyst> TZer0: check crawl-build/update-crawl-trunk-build.sh 14:44:14 I am trying to make it ignore hunger levels until "starving" or "near starving" while exploring, and "ignore = You are feeling *.hungry" seems to work. 14:44:23 <|amethyst> TZer0: CSZO has as the last lines of the make invocation: 14:44:23 <|amethyst> USE_PCRE=y \ 14:44:23 <|amethyst> EXTERNAL_FLAGS_L="-g" 14:44:30 <|amethyst> somebody: oh 14:44:31 <|amethyst> somebody: .* 14:44:46 <|amethyst> somebody: . means "any character" and * means "zero or more of the last thing" 14:44:52 <|amethyst> that's the same whether it's PCRE or not 14:44:55 However, "more += Your .* skill increases to level (1|5|8|10|15|20|21|24|27)!" doesn't. 14:45:01 |amethyst: Interesting, thank you. 14:45:12 <|amethyst> somebody: if PCRE isn't in use, you have to backslash the (|) 14:45:23 <|amethyst> somebody: but if PCRE is in use, you have to *not* backslash them :( 14:45:47 |amethyst: Okay, let me test it. TZer0, don't mind me please. :) 14:46:02 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:46:15 <|amethyst> CSZO and CAO at least use PCRE. Windows builds do by default; Unix builds do not by default 14:46:33 \? 14:46:35 clearly 14:46:42 |amethyst: So, if PCRE (whatever this is) is in use, the correct line would be this? 14:46:53 |amethyst: "more += Your.* skill increases to level /(1|5|8|10|15|20|21|24|27/)!" 14:47:06 your backslashes are backwards 14:47:12 ..... 14:47:14 what 14:47:16 USE_PCRE=YesPlease 14:47:47 <|amethyst> somebody: more += Your.* skill increases to level \(1\|5\|8\|10\|15\|20\|21\|24\|27\)! 14:47:57 wheals: How embarrassing of me. 14:48:11 <|amethyst> assuming you have a 'more' alias defined 14:48:27 how large is objstat output? 14:48:35 <|amethyst> it shoulds like the original should work on clan though 14:48:48 * somebody rolls his eyes. 14:48:49 |amethyst: Yes, I have it defined. 14:49:25 |amethyst: Maybe I had a typo in it originally, I am not sure. 14:49:37 <|amethyst> somebody: it won't work for 27 though 14:49:49 <|amethyst> somebody: since that one is "You have mastered !" 14:50:07 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:50:31 |amethyst: Okay, thank you. 14:50:54 <|amethyst> also, multi-level skill gain 14:51:13 |amethyst: I guess the line should be "more += You have mastered.*!", then? 14:51:19 <|amethyst> yeah 14:51:46 <|amethyst> and more += Your .* skill gained .* levels.*! 14:51:47 Wouldn't it prompt at least once for multiple skill gains that qualify? 14:52:06 <|amethyst> no, because it doesn't print the message "Your foo skill increased..." then 14:52:24 <|amethyst> !source _change_skill_level 14:52:24 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/skills.cc;hb=HEAD#l249 14:52:35 <|amethyst> those three messages are in an if-elseif-else 14:52:45 for the table with config 14:53:10 key TEXT(20) NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY and value TEXT(500) for instance? 14:53:11 that should cover all bases I think 14:53:15 ebering: see objstat[2], the 3-rune and 15-rune files; I make them from the text files 14:53:22 <|amethyst> TZer0: what kind of config were you thinking? 14:53:29 <|amethyst> TZer0: not everything is simple key-value pairs 14:53:42 server name, bot-name, server maintainer 14:53:44 stuff like that 14:53:50 Wow. I sure did start something here. 14:53:55 location 14:53:58 Thanks everyone, you were extremely helpful. 14:54:46 ebering: looks like 20mb for the 3-rune set of text files, maybe 30-40mb for the 15-rune set 14:54:47 I am not planning to be asked for inspiration on how to name any more non-ugly children in the foreseeable future, so I am not sure how I can possibly repay you. 14:55:10 <|amethyst> TZer0: I just don't see the benefit of using a relational db for unstructured key-value pairs 14:55:25 well, I don't want them lying around in the repo. 14:55:36 <|amethyst> TZer0: keep them in a text file outside the repo 14:55:37 somebody: if you get a potted plant sometime, name it after me 14:56:07 or like a really nice rock in your backyard 14:56:13 I'd still rather have it in the database 14:56:20 simply because it becomes slightly more portable 14:56:26 <|amethyst> portable? 14:56:35 docker-related. 14:56:41 I can more easily move an entire server that way 14:56:48 <|amethyst> docker can copy sqlite databases easier than a text file? 14:56:50 without having to re-init my config or grab the specific file 14:57:03 eh 14:57:13 I would have to put it in one of the folders I mount with docker 14:57:34 <|amethyst> put it in the same dir as the versions db 14:58:27 <|amethyst> I mean, I guess if there is a complete command-line interface to it I can't complain about the db too much 14:58:52 that's what I kind of wanted. 14:58:54 <|amethyst> but it's a lot easier to use vi than it is to write some INSERT statements 14:59:41 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:58 esp for adding new experimentals (assuming we are talking about the server config here) 15:00:25 <|amethyst> johnstein: I was thinking new experimentals are one of those things that should be in the db 15:00:27 johnstein: that's a separate table. 15:00:38 ok 15:00:40 <|amethyst> johnstein: because it's essentially tabular (for each version, you have a list of fields) 15:00:55 I always wanted to write a script that would easily add new ones 15:01:01 <|amethyst> johnstein: but there definitely should be a command-line tool and a CGI to add things 15:01:15 <|amethyst> johnstein: yeah, with this change, that script would be a few lines of SQL 15:01:19 hrm, I wonder an amazon instance would let me do more than this bluehost $10/mo account 15:01:26 <|amethyst> wrapped in an sqlite3 < gammafunk: You've got it mister — I have a large withered laurel plant sitting on my window. It's not demonic or even undead (as far as I know!), so unless you mind dead pieces of your namesake occasionally being used to spice the soup, I can accommodate your request. 15:01:42 somebody: <3 15:02:25 <|amethyst> TZer0: I will be able to start helping in earnest in about 2 weeks 15:02:30 <|amethyst> TZer0: once the semester ends 15:02:36 oh, nice! 15:02:37 if you name other things after devs, just make it proportional to their commits 15:02:38 :) 15:02:39 OK, I have a working implementation of smooth armour dodging penalties. 15:02:56 like PleasingFungus and/or Grunt would warrant...I dunno a pet gerbil? 15:03:23 <|amethyst> FR: smooth spell failure rates 15:03:32 <|amethyst> just interpolate with the current table even 15:03:34 johnstein: 15:03:34 if you want 15:03:38 you can test out the crawl-docker 15:03:41 it is capable of running just fine 15:03:43 |amethyst: sure, ship it 15:03:57 but I haven't set it to rebuild anything 15:04:07 gammafunk: If you can do a postmortem on the next character (that I'll feel really sorry about), I can even throw in a promise to you name the it's living replacement "gammafunk the II". 15:04:10 it will also only build trunk 15:04:22 but I think you know that changing this into building everything isn't the biggest of changes 15:04:41 I kind of want a slightly more generic setup - the kind of thing I'm discussing here with |amethyst 15:04:48 since that will allow way easier config later. 15:06:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:07:13 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:31 somebody: my characters are all very tragic, but I will keep that in mind 15:08:59 |amethyst: impressive beard. 15:09:17 ??beard stats 15:09:17 beard stats[1/1]: Beard values for 0.10 are: beardless < 10, choko beard < 30, some beard < 60, quite a beard < 90, very beardy < 120, extreme beard < 150, extraordinary beard < 190, incredible beard < 240, uncanny beard < 300, almost entirely bearded >= 300 15:09:35 !learn e beard_stats s/entirely bearded/entirely beard 15:09:35 beard stats[1/1]: Beard values for 0.10 are: beardless < 10, choko beard < 30, some beard < 60, quite a beard < 90, very beardy < 120, extreme beard < 150, extraordinary beard < 190, incredible beard < 240, uncanny beard < 300, almost entirely beard >= 300 15:09:41 ! 15:10:15 I'd say somewhere between 160-240 for |amethyst. 15:10:26 but kind of hard to say due to the shading in the profile pic. 15:10:47 right now... I think I'm at like 10-13ish 15:10:48 :P 15:11:54 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:00 johnstein: I think I'll just halt for now. Wait for the changes to rain in 15:12:03 ??hair stats 15:12:03 the concept is very much testable 15:12:03 hair stats[1/1]: extremely bad hair <10, awful hair <30, poor hair <60, choko hair <90, normal hair <120, quite good hair<160, very nice hair<220, extreme hair<300, extraordinary hair <400, incredible hair <520, uncanny hair <700, almost entirely hair >=700 15:12:04 go try it. 15:12:28 but don't go all out and deploy it on a server. 15:12:36 for general use that is 15:13:47 I'll take it for a spin sometime 15:14:05 I should try to get DBRO running it 15:15:27 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0/20141125180439]] 15:16:11 http://pastebin.com/nKt9dqJH ok, here are some ev numbers 15:16:25 anyone who cares about how armour interacts with ev, please take a look 15:16:53 (context is "make armour reduce the effectiveness of dodging, rather than zeroing it before some breakpoint and doing nothing thereafter) 15:16:59 !send PleasingFungus huge AC 15:16:59 Sending huge AC to PleasingFungus. 15:17:16 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:24 !send Grunt diesel DE 15:17:25 Sending diesel DE to Grunt. 15:17:31 !lg * de diesel 15:17:32 17. Yermak the Ninja (L27 DEBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-11-01 05:03:19, with 11656566 points after 141075 turns and 16:08:21. 15:17:35 of course 15:17:56 the D in DE stands for Diesel 15:17:59 PleasingFungus: what do the numbers under 9, 18, 27 mean 15:18:02 !lg * sp diesel 15:18:03 1. johnnyzero the Acrobat (L26 SpFE of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-03-08 17:46:26, with 1562462 points after 80995 turns and 6:49:30. 15:18:06 Diesel Elf 15:18:06 d a n g 15:18:15 !lg * fe diesel 15:18:15 fe is ambiguous: may be species or class. Use fe-- (Felid) or --fe (Fire Elementalist) to disambiguate 15:18:18 !lg * fe-- diesel 15:18:19 5. tasonir the Intangible (L27 FeTm of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-09-12 15:57:39, with 1867721 points after 62217 turns and 4:29:21. 15:20:23 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:29 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzglotza 15:21:43 !lg * playable s=crace / diesel o=N 15:21:53 985/3286243 games for * (playable): 267/104192x Gargoyle [0.26%], 182/225601x Minotaur [0.08%], 75/393355x Demonspawn [0.02%], 64/99543x Naga [0.06%], 47/121547x Hill Orc [0.04%], 44/47077x Vine Stalker [0.09%], 41/64587x Deep Dwarf [0.06%], 31/54004x Formicid [0.06%], 24/110835x Merfolk [0.02%], 24/111197x Human [0.02%], 21/45332x Halfling [0.05%], 21/166445x High Elf [0.01%], 19/73639x Demigod [... 15:21:56 !lg * playable s=crace / diesel o=-N 15:22:06 985/3286244 games for * (playable): 1/179344x Spriggan [0.00%], 2/112595x Vampire [0.00%], 4/62235x Felid [0.01%], 5/154868x Mummy [0.00%], 6/153606x Draconian [0.00%], 7/103163x Troll [0.01%], 8/47830x Centaur [0.02%], 9/92630x Ogre [0.01%], 11/114298x Kobold [0.01%], 17/331826x Deep Elf [0.01%], 18/46794x Ghoul [0.04%], 18/115263x Tengu [0.02%], 19/73639x Demigod [0.03%], 19/154438x Octopode [0.... 15:22:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:26:12 !kw diesel 15:26:13 Keyword: diesel => ac>=46 ev>=31 15:26:22 obviously 15:27:29 !lg . diesel 15:27:30 3. Bloax the Minotaur Arbalest (L27 MiHu of Cheibriados), blasted by a balrug (fireball) (summoned by Cerebov) in Pandemonium (cerebov_st) on 2014-07-27 23:53:14, with 967488 points after 84093 turns and 6:22:46. 15:28:24 !lg . diesel 15:28:25 3. SGrunt the Invulnerable (L27 MiGl of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-11-27 22:09:00, with 9990173 points after 169298 turns and 8:59:07. 15:28:31 !lg . diesel / won 15:28:32 2/3 games for Grunt (diesel): N=2/3 (66.67%) 15:28:43 !lg . diesel !won 15:28:43 1. SGrunt the Invulnerable (L27 MiGl of The Shining One), blasted by a hellion (burst of hellfire) in Pandemonium (lemuel_hellion_island) on 2014-02-08 04:34:11, with 815432 points after 116450 turns and 4:58:45. 15:28:48 killed_by_bug 15:29:17 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:29:23 what is so special about AC=46 and EV=31? 15:29:51 ask mikee 15:30:21 !lg . diesel won 15:30:22 1. gammafunk the Impregnable (L25 DDHe of Elyvilon), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-11-28 03:14:51, with 1586395 points after 72870 turns and 9:46:28. 15:30:26 ironic 15:31:02 also that's through use of an agil pot 15:31:10 !lg . diesel won x=status 15:31:11 1. [status=mighty,agile,berserking,controlling teleports,resistant,flying,very slightly contaminated,non-regenerating,hasted] gammafunk the Impregnable (L25 DDHe of Elyvilon), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-11-28 03:14:51, with 1586395 points after 72870 turns and 9:46:28. 15:31:54 probably should have status!~agile and maybe some other checks in that diesel kw 15:31:56 !lg . diesel 15:31:56 No games for johnstein (diesel). 15:32:00 :( 15:32:01 johnstein: get good 15:32:21 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:36 well, from what I'm reading, I could probably use the lowest tier of ecs instance and get a lot more functionality than what I'm getting with this $10/mo hosting account 15:32:37 !lg . s=char x=AC,EV 15:32:38 Extra fields (x=ac,ev) contain non-aggregates 15:32:42 !lg devteamnp crazy s=name 15:32:43 15 games for devteamnp (crazy): 4x Medar, 2x elliptic, 2x doy, itsmu, SGrunt, 78291, Lasty, dpeg, KiloByte, wheals 15:32:48 !lg . crazy 15:32:49 1. SGrunt the Invulnerable (L27 MiGl of The Shining One), blasted by a Brimstone Fiend (blast of hellfire) in Pandemonium (rand_demon_2) on 2014-01-29 22:21:12, with 738844 points after 133982 turns and 5:47:35. 15:32:50 !kw crazy 15:32:51 Keyword: crazy => ((sh>=50 || sh>25 newsh)) crace!=og|tr|na|ce|fo 15:32:52 !lg . crazy diesel 15:32:53 No games for Grunt (crazy diesel). 15:32:55 aw 15:33:01 !lg . crazy 15:33:01 No games for gammafunk (crazy). 15:33:09 !kw crazy 15:33:09 !lg . won crazy 15:33:09 Keyword: crazy => ((sh>=50 || sh>25 newsh)) crace!=og|tr|na|ce|fo 15:33:10 No games for johnstein (won crazy). 15:33:11 so maybe I'll try that, then I can run objstat/mapstat 15:33:13 !lg . crazy 15:33:14 No games for PleasingFungus (crazy). 15:33:16 :( 15:33:19 !lg . crazy 15:33:20 !hs * crazy 15:33:20 2. Bloax the Slayer (L27 MiFi of Cheibriados), blasted by notcluie's ghost (great blast of fire) on Coc:7 (coc_old) on 2014-09-27 19:51:48, with 919503 points after 35023 turns and 4:51:20. 15:33:23 not even the craziest dev 15:33:25 3604. ELD the Axe Maniac (L27 MiBe of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-11-19 16:10:26, with 39078865 points after 37347 turns and 9:13:12. 15:33:25 wow 15:33:26 !hs * crazy x=sh 15:33:30 !lg . crazy 15:33:30 No games for johnstein (crazy). 15:33:32 3604. [sh=31] ELD the Axe Maniac (L27 MiBe of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-11-19 16:10:26, with 39078865 points after 37347 turns and 9:13:12. 15:33:45 high sh obviously critical for winning 15:33:50 !lg * crazy diesel s=name 15:33:54 170 games for * (crazy diesel): 4x Nordon, 3x particleface, 3x bmfx, 3x Herrn, 3x haldagan, 3x rchandra, 2x UncertainKitten, 2x mitch45678, 2x wvc, 2x Bananafish1988, 2x pivotal, 2x Suckerboh, 2x johnnyzero, Evablue, magistern, denudes, Sixotanaka, doctordoom, hackum, JogiH, Pratfall, albinofish, dead, NekoRex, fdshfn, notcluie, kerensky, blal, dadoka, Sky, Medar, Mygna, Runemage, tasonir, oXJerXo... 15:34:08 hm 15:34:18 I wonder if I should just push the ev changes 15:34:22 * Grunt pushes PleasingFungus. 15:34:53 PleasingFungus: would it help if I linked you a Salt-N-Pepa video 15:34:58 Absolutely. 15:35:07 PleasingFungus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCadcBR95oU 15:35:39 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:37:02 gammafunk: haha, that proves you're oooold :) 15:37:18 the other devteam elder? 15:37:25 dpeg: no! 12yo. I learned about that video from tabstorm, who is very young 15:37:47 omg, is Salt'n Pepa _so_ old that it's cool again for vintage reasons? 15:37:48 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:53 probably 15:38:03 * dpeg strokes his beard contemplatively 15:38:12 kinda surprised that dpeg knows about them! 15:38:31 gammafunk Here you go: http://minus.com/moZ4RCC9P3pVO Enjoy the evil you have unleashed on the unsuspecting world! 15:38:51 somebody: haha, it's beautiful 15:38:53 tyvm 15:39:45 * somebody contemplates making soup out of gammafunk. 15:39:58 dungeon crawl stone soup, perhaps? 15:40:02 ! ! ! 15:40:24 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:40:29 ! 15:40:38 ? 15:41:00 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:41:23 just don't unleash s(o)upergamma on the world 15:41:52 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:28 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:42:30 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 15:43:44 Okay, back to the rc file thing. I have a line that says "note_messages += You feel monstrous". It is not a complete match. Is it going to work like this? 15:44:18 Sure. 15:45:20 Is there any good reason not to leave broad expressions like this, assuming it works? 15:45:59 that one is probably safe. need to be careful that unexpected things don't match, though 15:46:18 yeah that wouldn't match anything but that ds mutation, so it should be fine 15:48:01 Uhmm, good point. I have had a very bad case of this when my DENe character died in Zot. I was furiously melee-ing a deep troll with about a dozen points HP and the damn *more* prompt at the end of the Death Door just didn't show up. It turned to be a missing coma, or something like this. 15:48:17 Okay, back to ##crawl. 15:50:10 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:18 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3027-g2829fb0: Smooth dodging penalties from armour 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 47+ 37-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2829fb0faec1 15:53:33 PleasingFungus: I support ^, Thanks 15:54:05 reaverb supports this commit! You feel a surge of solidarity. 15:54:33 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:35 !discord PleasingFungus 15:54:35 PleasingFungus flies into a frenzy! 15:54:39 tabstorm: hi... 15:54:45 smooooth dodging 15:54:46 hi... 15:55:05 !send PleasingFungus a smooth shield 15:55:05 Sending a smooth shield to PleasingFungus. 15:55:48 %git 15:55:48 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-3027-g2829fb0: Smooth dodging penalties from armour 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 47+ 37-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2829fb0faec1 15:55:49 tabstorm: ^ 15:55:58 yeeeee 15:57:08 Hmm. There is a channel called "mutations" for the game's messages, so can I just put both a more & stop prompt for everything happening in it with a single command? 15:58:50 <|amethyst> mutation:.* 15:58:58 ...or is it going to have to be like 'stop += hell_effect:', then 'more += hell_effect:'? 15:59:06 <|amethyst> oh 15:59:15 <|amethyst> both in one command, not without lua probably 15:59:33 |amethyst: Okay, that's good enough. Would the line I typed about the the hells work? 15:59:58 <|amethyst> not certain if it works without anything following the colon 16:00:08 cool change 16:01:35 So will 27/27 armour/dodge give different EV now for fixed dex/str? 16:01:42 yes 16:01:53 alright 16:01:53 slightly less 16:01:56 PleasingFungus: that table in the commit says that the numbers are the ev penalty, yet the values increase with dodging skill? 16:02:03 gammafunk: yes 16:02:23 I guess since dodging is increasing, and so is the penalty? 16:02:25 yes 16:02:37 hrm, that's a bit odd in some sense but 16:02:43 I guess the final ev result is what matters 16:02:57 it decreases the amount of ev you get from dodging 16:03:02 <|amethyst> somebody: ah, yes, just mutation: does work 16:03:09 <|amethyst> somebody: I tested with pray: 16:03:39 -!- WereVolvo1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:41 it'd probably just be helpful to see the actual ev as well 16:03:53 yeah but that requires calculating aevp which is 16:03:55 way messier 16:04:05 |amethyst: Thanks. 16:04:29 PleasingFungus: it's hard to calculate the aevp given the armour type, str, and that fixed 20 dex? 16:04:33 -!- orbisvicis has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:38 |amethyst: Sorry though, I freshly out of dead laurel plants. 16:04:41 ??aevp 16:04:41 aevp[1/1]: Adjusted body armour evasion penalty. Affects spell success, melee accuracy. Its value is [(2/5) * er^2 / (str+3)] * [45 - armour_skill]/45. 16:04:51 armour skill, yeah 16:04:54 that'd be a thing 16:04:55 you also need some arbitrary armour skil 16:04:56 yeah 16:05:05 15 armour is reasonable probably, but 16:05:06 then you plug it in to that ugly-ass mess 16:05:25 PleasingFungus: can you share the spreadsheet? 16:05:28 just put in a fudge factor of 1/3 or so its close enough 16:05:30 spreadsheet....? 16:05:32 I'm assuming you have one 16:05:34 why do we even have aevp 16:05:35 mmmmmmmmmm 16:05:36 fudge 16:05:38 and just.. evp 16:05:42 Grunt: no! you're on a diet! 16:05:48 imo fudge that 16:05:49 "re-learn how to make spreadsheets" is still on my todo 16:05:53 like i dont get why we need so many formulae 16:05:58 all I got was what was in the pastebin 16:05:59 is this just 4.1 legacy stuff 16:06:24 we have a lot of knobs in turn in crawl, tabstorm 16:06:32 i see 16:06:33 str, dex, int, all the skills, all the armour types 16:06:41 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:11 Armour skill barely does anything for evasion anyway dosen't it? 16:07:15 ??evp 16:07:15 encumbrance rating[1/2]: A number representing how much armour harms your spellcasting, dodging, and melee accuracy. Units are "arbitrary units of encumbrance" (aue). 16:07:41 ??evp[2 16:07:41 evp[2/2]: evp~er/3 16:07:51 eh. it does as much as it does for any other aevp thing 16:07:56 tabstorm: looks like 27 armour gives you half the aevp of 0 armour 16:08:02 22, I think 16:08:08 oh yeah sorry 16:08:09 22 16:08:14 22.5 but we/e 16:08:18 * PleasingFungus shrugs. 16:08:20 well yes but the actual EVP is some f(aevp) i dont remember 16:08:31 ??evasion 16:08:31 ev[1/5]: Shorthand for evasion (the stat). It is improved by Dodging skill, equipment with evasion bonuses, the repulsion field mutation, and the Phase Shift spell; it is worsened by equipment with evasion penalties. 16:09:04 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:05 it seems to be literally just the aevp 16:09:11 !calc (2.0 / 5) 16:09:11 0.4 16:09:12 !source player.cc:2363 16:09:12 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player.cc;hb=HEAD#l2363 16:09:20 oh wait no im thinking of 16:09:29 under the old system, when dodging skill began to give ev 16:09:30 oh god damn it 16:09:38 was like (10*aevp - 30)/30 or something 16:09:56 !calc (2.0 / 5) * 23^2 / 26 16:09:57 Broken query near '^2 / 26$ fmt:"${x[0]}"' 16:10:02 lies 16:10:09 !calc (2.0 / 5) * 23**2 / 26 16:10:10 8.14 16:10:39 tabstorm: so like 8 ev points lost if you have plate armour and appropriate str but 0 armour 16:10:43 Anyway I wonder if you could just have armour be divorced from EV altogether and just have it increase AC 16:10:59 and from sc penalty as well 16:11:00 but high armour gives you back only as much as 4 16:11:05 armour skill? 16:11:08 You could probably simplify the formulae quite a bit 16:11:09 yes 16:11:39 tabstorm: yeah so in heavy armour you can get back like 4 ev at max armour skill 16:11:48 ??gold_dragon_armour 16:11:48 gold dragon armour[1/4]: 12AC, 25ER, rF+ rC+ rPois. Can be created by enchanting a gold dragon hide. ER 23 in 0.16. 16:12:02 !calc (2.0 / 5) * 25**2 / 28 16:12:03 8.93 16:12:14 in gda you have about 9 ev penalty 16:12:21 armour skill is weird 16:12:22 I assume there's a round in there somewhere 16:12:57 the ev "gain" is tiny at best and misleading for the most part 16:13:33 eh, this is what you get with such big #s in crawl i guess 16:13:53 well, armour skill is more useful for reducing penalties if you're lacking str 16:14:11 sort of a way to partially compensate by dumping in more xp 16:14:18 yeah that's true 16:14:25 I was considerinng at appropriate str 16:14:31 but if you don't have that, there's a much larger penalty 16:14:42 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15:45 I guess simplification where basically you need that str would make str more coherent, but possibly just more game-limiting as well 16:16:02 *simplification where you need str and armour skill isn't used 16:17:02 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3028-g80ef40f: Tidy some player EV code 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80ef40ff0f12 16:23:27 The five-headed hydra evaporates and reforms as a great orb of eyes!!! 16:23:28 we 16:23:32 really need to fix the degeneration card 16:23:58 imo one good thing to do would be to look at the math it uses 16:24:01 and comprehend it 16:24:04 and turn it into something sane 16:24:08 because, currently, the math is not sane. 16:25:46 Grunt: what's the problem? 16:25:58 wheals: it's consistently polymorphing things into more threatening things 16:26:07 which is the opposite of its stated design goal 16:26:13 maybe that "poly to less hd" thing isn't actually working? 16:26:16 hydra (09D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 13 | HP: 58-86 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 976 | Sz: Big | Int: reptile. 16:26:16 %??hydra 16:26:22 great orb of eyes (09G) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 53-81 | AC/EV: 10/3 | Dam: 20 | see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | XP: 1023 | Sp: paralyse [06!sil], disintegrate (d44) [06!sil], drain magic [06!sil], confuse [06!sil], teleport other [06!sil, 04emergency] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 16:26:22 %??great_orb_of_eyes 16:26:22 that went down HD>... 16:26:31 oh, welp 16:26:33 the problem is HD, not the degen card... 16:26:52 obviously make those malmutate afflictions much heavier 16:27:37 well eventually it just becomes not unlike the original degen card 16:27:47 or the part that made monsters into pulsating lumps 16:29:00 lowering effective hd does not make monsters speed 5 >_> 16:30:16 well speed 5 sure, but more importantly the lumps just didn't have much they could do. 16:30:32 there's probably an additional nerf you could place on them I guess 16:30:34 ??malmutate 16:30:34 malmutate[1/2]: Enemy spell that gives you a usually bad mutation. 80% chance of a bad mutation, else random mutation. Monsters that get malmutated get 1 speed subtraction once, alongside 10% damage reduction in all sources (up to 50%), and 1 ac subtracted each time. 16:30:37 ??malmutate[2 16:30:37 mutating enemies[1/1]: Mutations are caused by the following enemies: {shining eye}, {cacodemon}, {neqoxec}, {orb of fire}, {wretched star} (temporary), {Mnoleg}. 16:30:56 ah malmutate slows already 16:31:23 no 16:31:25 that is 0.15 16:31:34 oops 16:31:51 While I am at it annoying you people, can someone please clarify — 'stop ^= a strangely unpleasant explosion' is going to work even if I have 'ignore += talk:', right? 16:32:11 imo test it in wizmode 16:32:34 somebody: I think talk: is monster speech, so yes it should be fine 16:32:46 but yeah what PleasingFungus said in general about your rc 16:32:49 it's really nice to just test it 16:33:03 even when you have a dirt simple rc like I do 16:33:08 Is there wizmode in web tiles? 16:33:18 no, but in local tiles you can do that 16:33:21 or local console 16:33:30 Oh, so I do have to compile locally. 16:33:43 no, you can download a nightly build, depending on your os 16:33:49 windows or ...hrm 16:33:51 gammafunk: Oh, great. 16:34:21 somebody: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/ 16:35:05 debian packages should be available for linux, but I haven't checked them recently 16:35:12 gammafunk: Thanks. 16:35:25 obviously the answer is to combine vitriol and degeneration 16:35:40 acid explosions ontop of everything degenerated 16:35:45 hrm, looks like we're not making debian packages any more 16:36:07 oh well, linux users are smart enough to compile 16:36:47 rename the card to Have a Bad Day 16:36:57 degenration, acid explosion, poisoned, on fire 16:37:04 *degeneration 16:37:37 -!- Dynast has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:38:08 ...drained, then thrown by an op crusher, then thrown by Robin, ... 16:38:21 * somebody suddenly remembers that he's a Linux user. 16:38:34 surely only player goblins can be thrown by robin 16:38:36 no no it's Slime Pits themed 16:38:37 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:46 like how Foxfire is silently swamp themed 16:38:54 The Pits 16:39:23 I guess you could go that way, using many of those "slime effects" 16:39:32 para, confuse, disint 16:39:42 would be kind of a cool thematic card 16:40:14 jiyva card 16:40:26 degeneration -> old degeneration -> pulsating lumps -> slime pits -> acid 16:40:31 a powerful thematic connection 16:40:32 btw shouldn't robin sit in the early castle vault? I just had a d:3 goblin / kobold castle and was a bit disappointed to not meet robin there 16:40:52 degeneration -> polymorph -> old name for malmutate -> shining eyes -> slime pits -> acid 16:40:53 duh 16:40:59 !lm MiBe 16:41:00 4982. [2014-12-07 13:20:59] Mibe the Minotaur Blade (L19 MiBe of Trog) left the Vaults on turn 41289. (Vaults:1) 16:41:05 !lm . MiBe 16:41:06 30. [2014-12-07 05:55:08] gammafunk the Cleaver (L6 MiBe of Trog) killed Edmund on turn 1005. (D:5) 16:41:22 if I make that change, ElanMorin has to play that game of mine and I get the credit 16:41:41 you want a mibe win? :D 16:41:52 (I want a <40k 15-rune win MiBe^makky win) 16:42:13 but yeah let me go do that 16:43:13 -!- pwnmonkey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:44:20 The oklob plant evaporates and reforms as a shambling mangrove! 16:44:33 nice 16:44:38 you won't die to acid! 16:45:20 ElanMorin: oh, you mean the big castle with the moat that sometimes gnolls? 16:45:33 there's one vault I'm thinking of that seems to place ijyb 16:45:40 but it may be different from the one you mean 16:45:47 !lg * won MiBe nrune=15 god=makhleb min=turns 16:45:48 3. PurpleRed the Axe Maniac (L27 MiBe of Makhleb), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-06-25 11:26:28, with 52426908 points after 27486 turns and 11:01:39. 16:45:54 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:46:02 yeah I mean the big one, gnolls are deeper though I think 16:46:15 it also can appear in depths as zot entry 16:46:17 ElanMorin: ah, that's lemuel_castle_with_subvaults 16:46:20 !vault lemuel_castle_with_subvaults 16:46:21 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/lemuel_castle.des;hb=HEAD#l183 16:46:41 ElanMorin: it doesn't place uniques at all 16:46:59 tisk tisk tisk. 16:47:35 !vault kennysheep_goblin_castle 16:47:36 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large_themed.des;hb=HEAD#l1613 16:47:53 !vault minmay_goblin_kobold_castle 16:47:54 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/large_themed.des;hb=HEAD#l17 16:47:59 yeah that's the one 16:48:08 that could have choice of ijyb, Robin 16:48:17 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3029-g57b17b4: Don't let goblins sleep through tossing (piginabag) 10(73 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=57b17b484eb0 16:48:55 but that's in the goblin canon! 16:49:08 rip 16:49:23 * wheals loads gammafunk into the goblin cannon. 16:49:53 important note: placing 'robin band' is very different from placing 'robin' 16:50:35 PleasingFungus: let Zot sort 'em out 16:50:39 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:40 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:44 but yeah 16:51:10 you'd want to not place those 1s if placing robin 16:51:23 theTower: are you working on modifying that vault? 16:51:32 no, go ahead 17:02:40 !vault uniq_robin 17:02:40 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/builder/uniques.des;hb=HEAD#l257 17:04:01 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:04:59 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:05:07 TZer0: webtiles-changes has the ability to load game-specific configuration from separate files 17:05:07 chequers: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:05:18 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:24 TZer0: see the games_conf_d setting in the webtiles-changes branch's config.toml.sample file 17:05:38 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:56 Wensley: I'll get a JSON response going with this data before I ping you again, might be a week or two 17:07:06 man, edlothiol is hard to get a hold of 17:08:00 !seen edlothiol 17:08:00 I last saw edlothiol at Sun Dec 7 23:04:59 2014 UTC (3m 1s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 244 seconds'. 17:10:05 yeah, he seems to be on IRC the complement of when I am :) 17:10:11 -!- sphynx has quit [] 17:11:40 -!- CcS has quit [] 17:14:24 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 17:15:37 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:02 er 17:20:07 Nemelex just gave me two decks at the same time 17:20:22 Confiscate Maurice's time machine <-- please include this in the next changelog update 17:20:29 chequers: okay, I'll try to get a peek when I have the chance 17:21:10 -!- Sharkman1231_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:21:22 TZer0: it's used in the python script in my puppet repo at ./puppet/modules/dcss/files/update-dcss-stream.py 17:22:19 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:22:32 Grunt: happened to me too. were you in orc or another relatively small place 17:23:30 simmarine: I was in D just after finishing Orc 17:24:50 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:25:12 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-3029-g57b17b4 (34) 17:27:35 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:11 Huh, I don't get it. If I have a line " ae ^= you may want to try += 17:30:11 simmarine: Thanks, I will. 17:30:59 hm. I do not have such a line and those are excluded once they are known... 17:31:33 geekosaur: There are some defaults. I happen to disagree with them on usefulness of Immolation. :) 17:32:42 simmarine: Does it depend on whether there's '>' or '<' in that line? 17:32:45 yes, maybe I misunderstood your question, oh, yes, it appears I did, in fact 17:32:54 < should be what you want 17:33:10 if you dont include <, its the same as not wanting to pick the item up 17:33:16 autopickup_exceptions ignore order 17:33:20 distressingly 17:33:27 simmarine: Okay, great. 17:33:58 wheals: oh, huh? 17:33:58 wheals: I don't get it, sorry. What does it mean for my line? 17:34:48 i don't know 17:34:53 you want to ask |amethyst 17:35:40 If I have a line "ae += wand of confusion", it means that I don't want those to be picked up, right? 17:35:46 The ogre hits you with the +5 quick blade "Gyre" {Dex-3}! 17:35:46 The ogre hits you with the +5 quick blade "Gimble" {Dex-3}. 17:35:46 The ogre hits you with the +5 quick blade "Gyre" {Dex-3}!! 17:35:46 _The ogre hits you with the +5 quick blade "Gimble" {Dex-3}! 17:35:49 it works \o/ 17:35:56 wheals: Yikes. 17:36:13 !send wheals some HW potions 17:36:13 Sending some HW potions to wheals. 17:36:44 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:39 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:33 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:48 theTower: Is a vault with loot (a wand) allowed to have the interest_check() marker? Looking at how it flags vaults as 'extra' I wouldn't think so but xom_butterflies is exactly that. 17:39:49 I don't if that's a mistake. 17:39:59 or I'm misundertanding interest_check 17:40:17 !vault xom_butterflies 17:40:17 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des;hb=HEAD#l2161 17:40:49 The rc file sets the pluses or minuses, overwriting what you had before in the '\' menu every time you open you game, right? 17:40:53 -!- reaverb2 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:04 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:42:23 -!- DEFE has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:42:24 -!- reaverb2 is now known as reaverb 17:44:15 reaverb: it's saying that the vault is "extra" past a certain depth/branch, so don't let its placement impact placement of other vaults 17:44:32 gammafunk: Yes, should that be the case for a vault which spawns loot? 17:44:41 why not? 17:44:52 Hmm, what's the point of extra? 17:44:55 -!- reaverb1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:45:05 the point of extra is what I said above 17:45:09 it means that 17:45:27 this vault is basically an optional flavour vault 17:45:55 you could interperate the meaning in a few ways I guess, but in practical terms it's just saying "don't let placing this vault get in the way of placing other vaults" 17:46:38 What kind of vaults are marked extra? What kinds of vaults aren't marked extra? 17:47:08 <+gammafunk> this vault is basically an optional flavour vault 17:47:12 I was thinking extra was for "optional flavour vault" but I don't agree xom_butterflies fits that because it spawns a free wand for the player. 17:47:34 it spawns a very likely to be junk wand 17:47:55 and just a single wand isn't exactly the find of the century 17:48:22 since the flavour is xom, "mostly junk rarely useful" is appropriate 17:48:43 So it's just a matter of degree? Hmm. 17:49:58 Anyway I was going to A) mark the random_effects wand ident:type if it spawns, B) reduce the number of butterflies because butterflies are annoying. Do those changes look good? 17:51:16 B) is fine, but I don't see the point of A 17:51:24 you'll id the wand when you pick it up 17:52:10 What if, ex, a monster picks it up? If you've seen a butterfly and know the vault you could possible deduce the monster's wand is random effects. 17:52:23 probably just SUBST: . = 1.. instead of SUBST: . = 11. for the butterflies 17:52:44 I did . = 1... 17:52:45 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:55 or better yet just use NSUBST and place a min with a chance of an extra 17:53:09 well the problem is you may get zero 17:53:32 I'd say you'd want to place at least two or something 17:54:02 so like NSUBST: . = 2: 1 / 2 = ..1 / *: . 17:54:11 something like that 17:54:31 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:32 I might have messed up that syntax though 17:55:03 Ok, what about "NSUBST: . = 2: 1/ *:." 17:55:39 Really I wonder if it needs butterflies at all, the wand and the random floor colors are already a lot for a decor vault. 17:56:20 butterflies are just for the theme, you're saying essentially butterflies are bad and should be remove, but that's not the vault's problem 17:56:24 *removed 17:56:51 Yeah, I suppose so. 17:57:02 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:57:37 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:42 if you do make it place only two, I'd maybe tag it patrolling 17:57:53 just so the effect of seeing the butterflies is likey to happen 17:58:01 otherwise with so few they'll just scatter 17:58:12 patrolling is a tag for the monster, correct? 17:58:17 yeah 17:58:48 reaverb: it can also be a vault tag, which applies to all monsters spawned by the vault. 17:59:00 Grunt: Hmm. 17:59:06 yeah TAGS: patrolling 17:59:29 grunt has a version of this vault he made 17:59:37 but instead of butterflies it places seraphim 18:00:08 w h a t 18:01:24 Grunt: What do you think abut the extra tag discussion from earlier? Is a vault which spawns a wand (4/5 random effects, otherwise random) fine having an 'extra' tag? 18:01:41 v0v 18:01:52 w0w 18:02:00 m0m 18:02:12 u0u 18:02:25 How come that seeing a centaur skeleton was noted in my '?:', but killing a two headed-ogre wasn't? I am just XL 10. 18:04:11 -!- stanzglotza is now known as stanzill 18:04:25 -!- TAS-2012v has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:04 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:13:11 The demonic crawler evaporates and reforms as an apocalypse crab!!! 18:14:07 sounds about right 18:16:51 there need to be more high-strength plants or fungi so i can make an all-plant swamp rune vault 18:17:16 the lernaean hydrangea 18:18:37 ! 18:19:05 the lernaean shrub 18:21:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:39 btw I had a thought 18:21:43 deck of war -> deck of reinforcement 18:22:28 -!- stanzill has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:04 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:57 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:33 Grunt: a while ago you were saying something about pan vaults, what kinda pan vaults you looking for 18:27:54 ?/vault 18:27:54 Matching terms (28): aerie_vault, arrival_vault, bad_vaults, bat_vault, door_vault, food_vault, food_vaults, jelly_vault, no_vaults, portal_vault, portal_vaults, rat_vault, scorpion_vault, serial_vault, the_vaults, vault, vault_design, vault_guard, vault_monsters, vault_names, vault_sentinel, vault_standards, vault_warden, vaultedit, vaultmaking, vaults, vaults:5, vaults_needed; entries (219): !he... 18:27:59 ??vaults_needed 18:28:00 vaults needed[1/1]: according to hangedman: decorative vaults for all branches (emphasis: lair branches bar swamp, crypt, hells), renewing serial vaults (e.g. curves.des, corridor.des), less plain bazaar entries, abyss entry vaults, more special rooms, ashenzari overflows, layout_pan_divisions quadrant subvaults 18:28:10 nicolae-: there's also that 18:28:12 is that up to date though 18:28:20 yeah he made that pretty recently 18:28:24 okely dokely 18:28:40 you might tell him if you make some progress with any of those 18:28:43 what does he mean by renewing serial vaults 18:29:16 hrm, you might just want to ask him (theTower on irc most days), but maybe more of those kinds of vaults? 18:29:41 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 18:32:37 -!- chukamok has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:40 alrighty 18:33:44 here's a question: is there anyway to make a single vault count as both a temple entry AND a generic overflow vault, if you wanted some altars around the entrance that wouldn't be in the temple 18:33:50 i'm guessing not 18:34:21 i imagine it'd show up quite rarely anyway, since it'd have to have an overflow altar specified on the same level as the temple entrance 18:38:12 -!- Dixie has quit [Quit: later] 18:40:10 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3030-g7fc2ef3: Reduce butterfly spam in xom_butterflies 10(49 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7fc2ef3a1d0f 18:40:10 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3031-g979a71a: Auto-ID chaos weapons in tgw_xom 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=979a71a4b765 18:43:46 -!- ktgrey has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:25 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:49:01 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:43 reaverb: I don't think those idents do anything, since weapon brands for monster-wielded weapons are shown to the player automatically 18:54:03 gammafunk: Oh, oops. 18:54:22 I forgot monsters having auto-ID'd weapons as added. 18:54:53 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:17 Not helped by the fact other vaults had ident:type on monster weapons w/defined egos >_> 18:55:27 yeah that's a legacy thing 18:55:34 someone could go through and remove those 18:58:22 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:58:43 reaverb 18:58:58 Lightli 18:59:05 you mispelt patrolling as partolling 18:59:12 ..... 18:59:32 yeah 18:59:37 the abyss_entry function in abyss.des still assumes that D is more than 16 levels 19:00:40 I'm even using lemedes.vim so the correct spelling is highlighted and I still missed that. 19:01:27 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:03:03 W - a +9 iron rod (8/17) {BOOMSTICK} 19:03:06 muhahahahahahaha 19:03:17 you just went to wizmode 19:03:19 and &o that 19:03:22 OPE 19:03:22 NOPE 19:03:27 ^watch SGrunt 19:03:27 Watch SGrunt at: http://crawl.berotato.org:8080/#watch-SGrunt 19:03:27 sure sure 19:04:19 does anybody else keep reading that website as crawl.beartato.org 19:04:44 beartatos are delicious, but might kill you 19:04:56 ??cbro 19:04:56 cbro[1/3]: Server in Georgia, US: crawl.beRotato.org -- ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys (no password access). In case of DNS problems, use crawl.boylecraft.net. Webtiles at: http://crawl.beRotato.org. Use glyph/sigil ^ for bots 19:05:15 I still don't really know what "be rotato" means 19:05:23 ??cbro[2 19:05:24 cbro[2/3]: Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein . 19:05:25 ??cbro[3 19:05:25 cbro[3/3]: "Be Excellent to each other. If you can't be excellent, Be Civil. If you can't be civil, Be Offline" --herrdoktor (Be Rotato!) 19:05:26 ^ 19:05:29 that's what it means 19:05:29 :) 19:05:37 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-3032-gb2fad11: Fix a typo (Lightli) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b2fad11c80ad 19:06:08 grunt why does all your lines look like this! 19:06:09 nicolae-: I read it at Bearotato from a webcomic 19:06:10 ...that doesn't help my confusion 19:06:19 with exclamation points! 19:06:42 because I have lang = !!! set!~ 19:06:50 i see! 19:06:57 oh I need to s/iron rod/BOOMSTICK/ in the lang 19:06:59 <3 19:07:19 only counts if you worship ru and sac a hand 19:07:24 true! 19:07:37 fr: demon form 19:07:52 !send TRAN_SERPENT_OF_HELL gammafunk 19:07:53 Sending gammafunk to TRAN_SERPENT_OF_HELL. 19:08:00 hmm 19:08:05 the Serpent of Hell (05D) | Spd: 14 | HD: 20 | HP: 320 | AC/EV: 16/12 | Dam: 3504(fire:20-39) per head | 05demonic, 04breaks doors, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(180), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: {head 1: fire breath (3d40), head 2: fireball (3d31), head 3: hellfire (3d20)} [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], sum.dragon [06!sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 19:08:05 %??serpent_of_hell 19:08:11 it is demonic 19:08:17 wow, breaks doors? 19:08:42 the Serpent of Hell (10D) | Spd: 14 | HD: 20 | HP: 320 | AC/EV: 30/12 | Dam: 50 per head | 05demonic, 04breaks doors, see invisible | Res: 06magic(180), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: {head 1: metal splinters (3d32), head 2: b.quicksilver (3d20), head 3: crystal spear (3d40)} [11!AM, 06!sil, 08breath], sum.dragon [06!sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 19:08:42 %??serpent_of_hell dis 19:08:56 Must have gotten that from X-whatever. 19:08:59 The Patashu patch. 19:09:16 %git :/SMASH THEM 19:09:16 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-700-g4ff2473: XTAHUA DOES NOT LIKE TO 'OPEN DOORS!' XTAHUA PREFERS TO SMASH THEM! (Patashu) 10(3 months ago, 6 files, 42+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ff2473382ba 19:09:18 the Lernaean hydra (08D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 5233 | Sz: Giant | Int: reptile. 19:09:18 %??the_lernaean_hydra 19:09:26 need break trees 19:09:31 *needs 19:10:46 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:10:47 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:12:21 hot dang this thing is quite powerful 19:13:02 how much evo 19:13:12 26.5 19:13:12 right now 19:13:15 er 19:13:15 yeah 19:13:23 that would do it 19:13:26 <3 19:13:41 |dispater is 3d52 or something at 27 evo 19:13:53 todo: knock off Dispater and put that to the test? 19:14:08 yeah you see |dispater a lot in zigs 19:14:11 since it works under silence 19:14:19 much better than |asmo imo 19:16:03 -!- Maera has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:04 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:18:21 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:18:29 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 19:25:24 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 19:27:21 -!- weezeface has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:11 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:23 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:30:25 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 19:33:30 -!- Dixie has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:18 * theTower rumbles 19:36:38 nicolae-: by "renew serial vaults" I mean there are a bunch of old ones that have very little to them 19:36:56 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 19:36:56 how much damage does iron rod do at max evo 19:37:08 Lightli: all of it 19:37:20 theTower: gotcha, so just add more vaults to the existing selections then? 19:38:17 corridors.des, curves.des, and less closed clumps for bayou/ponds would be my immediate thoughts 19:39:16 the others are lower priorities but it's always good to renew those since by their very nature they can get more monotonous >_> 19:39:33 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:42 by the way, did somebody reallllllllly try to make butterflies patrolling 19:41:13 they really like fountains/altars/ 19:41:27 yes 19:41:31 and then he mispelt patrolling 19:41:46 (confused AI does not actually have the capacity to stay near a spot in the first place.) 19:42:04 dang, corridors doesn't have a lot going for it 19:42:17 theTower: That doesn't work? 19:42:28 how do you expected it to work 19:43:59 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:00 ??iron rod 19:44:00 iron rod[1/2]: Blasts the area in front of you with metallic fragments. Their number and spread increase with evocation power. Range 6. New for 0.16. 19:44:10 how much damage does a single metal fragment do at evo 27 19:45:17 a lot, reduced a lot by ac 19:45:59 balrug (052) | Spd: 12 | HD: 14 | HP: 60-92 | AC/EV: 5/12 | Dam: 2504(fire:14-27) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(160), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 1660 | Sp: b.fire (3d23) [06!sil], fireball (3d23) [06!sil], sticky flame range (3d6) [06!sil], smiting (7-17) [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 19:45:59 %??balrug 19:46:10 uh 19:46:11 holy crap 19:46:18 who was just watching that 19:46:20 me 19:46:28 what happened 19:46:30 Aim: a greater mummy 19:46:30 The burst of metal fragments hits the greater mummy! x14 19:46:30 You destroy the greater mummy!!! 19:46:33 I just 19:46:35 oneshotted a greater mummy 19:46:37 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:46:43 with something you implemented 19:46:44 cheater 19:46:51 <|amethyst> a shotgun to the head does tend to do that 19:47:01 there's probably code that makes the iron rod work better if your name is sgrunt 19:47:09 :v 19:47:24 (it's evo 27 to be fair) 19:47:28 greater mummy (16M) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 189-211 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 35 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 6235 | Sp: sum.demon, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.emperor scorpions / sum.demon, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead / sum.emperor scorpions, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.scarabs / sum.mana viper, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:47:28 %??greater mummy 19:47:41 !nick greatermummyoneshotters 19:47:41 Mapping greatermummyoneshotters => mikee jeanjacques elliptic nomi magicmarker loguno raskol minmay 19:47:48 I guess I need to figure out what the tv for this is <_< 19:48:08 it probably won't work until you play a bit more 19:48:14 yeah 19:48:19 he could save 19:48:29 -!- reaverb1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:33 sgrunt, the s is for save 19:48:35 ahahahaha 19:48:41 I think this thing might be a bit too strong 19:48:48 nah looks balanced to me 19:49:07 (maybe give it the LRD style AC treatment so AC really shaves the damage down) 19:49:20 It does. 19:49:25 ??greatermummyoneshotters 19:49:25 greatermummyoneshotters[1/4]: Means you did at least 184 damage in one hit of melee. 19:49:31 well yeah i did 19:49:36 I guess really it needs to be a melee attack to count <_< 19:50:11 Khufu (04M) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 35 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 8802 | Sp: sum.emperor scorpions, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead, t.doroklohe [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:50:11 %??khufu 19:50:25 240 damage against AC 10 19:50:26 dang 19:50:56 clearly scattershot should cost 9 MP from the rod 19:51:09 !lg Bloax TrTm won 1 19:51:10 1. Bloax the Heavyweight Champion (L27 TrTm of Cheibriados), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-07-05 22:43:53, with 15538687 points after 101576 turns and 13:23:14. 19:51:31 right there around turn 98820 19:52:09 that 19:52:11 that was a bug 19:52:18 I cancelled out of blinking but it still took a turn. 19:52:24 UH OH 19:52:36 rip 19:52:44 !lm sgrunt 9995 -tv:<3.0 19:52:45 9995. SGrunt, XL24 KoAr, T:77831 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 19:54:14 this is good 19:54:32 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:55:24 -!- somebody has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:36 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:37 !apt evo 19:55:38 Evo: Sp: 4!, DD: 4!, Ko: 3, Fe: 2, Op: 2, DE: 2, Fo: 2, : 2, : 2, Hu: 1, Te: 1, Na: 1, HE: 1, Ds: 1, HO: 1, Mf: 1, Dr: 1, Ha: 1, VS: 0, Gr: 0, Mi: 0, Gh: 0, Vp: 0, Dg: 0, Ce: 0, Mu: -1, Og: -1, Tr: -2* 19:56:07 fr give jorgrun scattershot instead of shatter 19:56:21 I think scattershot just needs to cost 9 MP 19:56:43 does damage on par with 9th level spells at any rate with high evo 19:57:01 giant mp costs on rods are not particularly... 19:57:03 eh, whatever 20:00:34 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:03:43 !apt fo 20:03:44 Fo: Fighting: 1, Short: 0, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: 1, Bows: -2, Xbows: 0, Throw: -2*, Armour: 1, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 3, Shields: 2!, UC: 0, Splcast: 0, Conj: -1, Hexes: 2, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: 3!, Inv: 2, Evo: 2, Exp: 1!, HP: 0, MP: 1 20:04:49 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:15 !tell PleasingFungus you killed my character with your blurry vision change; good job 20:05:15 Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:06:01 not even iron rod can save you from your own shitty eyeballs 20:06:16 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:06:28 * Grunt evokes a rod. The blast of metal fragments hits nicolae-!!!!!!!!!!!!! x27 20:06:46 just use the iron rod as eye drops 20:06:48 what could 20:06:59 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:07:13 I am pretty sure I did not have 240 HP <_< 20:09:18 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 20:09:23 wait 20:09:27 !lg Grunt 20:09:27 1412. SGrunt the Hand of Fortune (L24 KoAr of Nemelex Xobeh), slain by an orc warrior (a +0 halberd) (led by Saint Roka) on Crypt:2 on 2014-12-08 01:52:01, with 402047 points after 78495 turns and 4:02:28. 20:09:56 l24...died to st. roka 20:10:01 -!- Maera has left ##crawl-dev 20:10:30 gammafunk: got petrified by Jorgrun, tried to blink which aborted out with no warning ... *after* it used the turn 20:10:45 how much mr did you have 20:10:47 RIP 20:11:11 !log grunt 20:11:12 1412. SGrunt, XL24 KoAr, T:78495: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/SGrunt/morgue-SGrunt-20141208-015201.txt 20:11:19 bad mr 20:11:24 + 20:11:25 at least you have Dev Powers so that you can fix Things That Are Really Annoying You 20:11:32 ...no ring 20:11:50 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:11:58 the ring of Thrusim {MR+ Str+2 Dex+3} (You found it in an ice cave) 20:12:00 he had a MR ring that he wasn't wearing 20:12:02 in his inventory 20:12:33 in crypt there's a lot of hexy stuff 20:12:47 jorgrun is sort of a random thing ofc 20:12:49 oh but 20:12:55 0 cancelation? 20:13:02 ...4 potions 20:13:05 of cancelation 20:13:14 gggrrruuunnnttt 20:13:33 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:57 is there an easy list of what layouts are used in what branches 20:15:21 nicolae-: they all say in their des entries where they place 20:15:45 nicolae-: des/builder/layout*.des 20:16:01 infiniplex made a spreadsheet a while back, but it's not completely current 20:17:18 allright 20:18:15 chequers: oh, and make sure it's something that all the other servers can use too :) 20:18:34 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:26 yes, it will be committed to webtiles-changes 20:30:12 !apt evo 20:30:13 Evo: Sp: 4!, DD: 4!, Ko: 3, DE: 2, : 2, : 2, Fo: 2, Op: 2, Fe: 2, Na: 1, Ha: 1, HO: 1, Hu: 1, HE: 1, Mf: 1, Dr: 1, Ds: 1, Te: 1, Mi: 0, VS: 0, Gr: 0, Gh: 0, Vp: 0, Ce: 0, Dg: 0, Mu: -1, Og: -1, Tr: -2* 20:30:34 !tell PleasingFungus seen in -3008-g8433e14: Something's corpse armour sloughs away. 20:30:35 Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:31:34 !apt ha 20:31:35 Ha: Fighting: -1, Short: 3!, Long: 0, Axes: -1, Maces: -2, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -2, Slings: 4!, Bows: 2, Xbows: -1, Throw: 3!, Armour: 1, Dodge: 1, Stealth: 2, Shields: 1, UC: -2*, Splcast: -3, Conj: -2, Hexes: -1, Charms: 1, Summ: -1, Nec: -2, Tloc: 1, Tmut: -4*, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: 1, Earth: 0, Poison: -1, Inv: 1, Evo: 1, Exp: 1!, HP: -1, MP: 0 20:34:00 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:39:04 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:26 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:22 -!- caricature has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:45:33 -!- maha_ has quit [Client Quit] 20:48:07 -!- maha_ has quit [Client Quit] 20:53:46 -!- Twinge has quit [] 20:55:50 Khufu (04M) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 240 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 35 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 8802 | Sp: sum.emperor scorpions, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead, t.doroklohe [04emergency] | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 20:55:50 %??khufu 20:55:51 -!- witty has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:56:03 -!- witty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:56:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:02:34 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:28 theTower: any thoughts on a version of monster simulacra that somehow works like twisted res, making some mega ice monster? 21:04:48 making one million slow ice things seems very ineffective when that spell is supposed to matter 21:04:49 -!- Maera has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:18 it's especially silly in zigs, not that this matters, but what I've seen in zot isn't impressive 21:05:22 although.. 21:05:28 !lg * br=zot ikiller~~simulacr 21:05:30 2. NightMan the Skullcrusher (L26 MDPa of Okawaru), demolished by a golden dragon simulacrum on Zot:3 on 2008-08-28 00:48:18, with 482722 points after 104142 turns and 10:55:16. 21:05:35 -!- Weeksy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:05:37 a mere 2 21:05:43 !lg * br=zot ikiller~~simulacr -2 21:05:45 1/2. Pacra the Hoplite (L27 MiFi of Okawaru), annihilated by a storm dragon simulacrum on Zot:4 on 2008-01-04 04:56:30, with 959390 points after 117005 turns and 15:15:32. 21:05:53 wow those are ancient 21:05:57 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:58 oh 21:06:01 im ancient 21:06:06 !lg * br=zot ckiller~~simulacr 21:06:06 13. asdu the Executioner (L20 HOGl of Makhleb), slain by a grey draconian simulacrum (animated by a pale draconian knight) on Zot:1 on 2014-11-26 23:07:30, with 294631 points after 24594 turns and 3:38:40. 21:06:10 that's a bit better 21:06:22 ya 21:06:29 !lg * br=zot ckiller~~simulacr s=cikiller 21:06:29 13 games for * (br=zot ckiller~~simulacr): 8x a draconian knight, 3x a curse toe, a storm dragon simulacrum, a golden dragon simulacrum 21:06:37 curse toe... 21:06:41 curse toe (08z) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 14 | HP: 100 | AC/EV: 25/1 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4769 | Sp: s.torment [06!sil], sum.mushrooms [06!sil] | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 21:06:41 %??curse_toe 21:06:57 !lg * br=zot ckiller~~simulacr cikiller=curse_toe 21:06:57 No games for * (br=zot ckiller~~simulacr cikiller=curse_toe). 21:07:00 !lg * br=zot ckiller~~simulacr cikiller=a_curse_toe 21:07:01 3. jeedimahstah the Eviscerator (L27 MiBe of The Shining One), slain by a white draconian simulacrum (summoned by a curse toe) on Zot:4 on 2012-09-11 11:53:33, with 635441 points after 116068 turns and 16:35:39. 21:07:06 oh right 21:07:08 heh 21:07:10 back when they had summon undead 21:07:31 !lg * br=zot ikiller~~draconian_knight 21:07:32 42. AAI041 the Faith Healer (L27 HuSk of Elyvilon), blasted by a yellow draconian knight (bolt of negative energy) on Zot:1 on 2014-12-03 01:33:21, with 590645 points after 122747 turns and 10:56:23. 21:07:41 -!- inspector071 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:48 !lg * br=zot ikiller~~draconian_knight s=ckaux 21:07:48 42 games for * (br=zot ikiller~~draconian_knight): 8x, 6x bolt of lightning, 6x bolt of cold, 4x chilling blast, 3x orb of energy, 3x ball of steam, 2x searing blast, 2x stone arrow, blast of chilling breath, by nerve-wracking pain, bolt of negative energy, great mace, shard of ice, splash of acid, halberd, glaive 21:08:08 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-3033-gddc8d8d: Let singularities and Gell's influence invisible enemies (HDA). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ddc8d8d0657b 21:08:24 ??oops 21:08:24 pleasingfungus[1/18]: oops 21:08:38 so when are you guys reverting twist removal 21:08:54 ...wow, minmay in support of twested res? 21:08:59 *twisted 21:09:02 what no 21:09:05 fuck twisted resurrection 21:09:08 i said twist, not twisted resurrection 21:09:15 theyre different by like 50 letters 21:09:37 ??twist 21:09:37 twist[1/1]: This offensive Translocation spell is no longer part of Crawl. 21:09:39 im talking about twist, the offensive tloc spell that was removed from crawl because offensive tloc spells didn't make sense 21:10:17 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:32 I'm not sure that very many tloc spells make much sense, really 21:10:49 what are the objectively good ones: blink? shroud? 21:11:21 I mean apport certainly has a lot of detractors 21:11:30 no i mean, i thought the reasoning was that it's weird for conjuration skill to exist if every school has damage spells 21:11:41 not some weird flavour thing 21:12:48 i just thought it was amusing that older dcss development decided tloc having damage spells was dumb, and now that's reversed and tloc not having damage spells is a glaring omission 21:13:15 well which would you like to see? 21:14:01 not sure what you mean??? i just saw damage spells being added to tloc and thought it would be a good joke to mention the offensive tloc spell that was removed for being an offensive tloc spell 21:14:06 Lasty_: "Wulndraste compels you to press onward! Really ascend?" <-- "compels" implies you can't resist, imho. Maybe "desires" or "commands" or similar? 21:15:01 well fair enough, me reading to much into your comments; someone thought that the poly self spell was a good idea at one point, so I mean who can say why crawl dev is as comedic as it is 21:16:26 i mean if youre actually asking my opinion on the change i dont think it makes sense for a spell school (conjurations) to be based on direct damage spells if most other schools also have direct damage spells 21:16:45 but that's not exactly new 21:17:25 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:14 like, i wouldn't expect non-fire magic spells to do fire damage, or non-summoning spells to summon allies, or non-tloc spells to teleport/blink you 21:19:29 convert crawl to pure chebyshev geometry and then a good tloc spell would change it temporarily to taxicab 21:19:41 I had always just thought that the conj school was good as way to have unresistable damage spells and also a way to require more xp for certain spells, but the latter thing could be done other ways 21:19:43 (I find all the conj+(non elemental school) spells really weird because of this) 21:20:46 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:21:07 well, when I started playing crawl there were 2 irresistible conj spells and the other irresistible conj spells were earth 21:21:22 so I suppose I have a different perception 21:21:57 (and yes I think tmut sandblast/lrd/shatter were weird and bad) 21:22:16 didn't know they used to be tmut 21:22:27 ??lrd 21:22:28 lrd[1/4]: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction: Turns walls into explosions. Useful for removing inconvenient stone or green crystal walls, though one needs fairly high power to pierce stone, and even higher to pierce metal (see {lrd[4]}). Causes lots of undodgeable damage to anything foolish enough to be near the wall (but AC is applied thrice). 21:22:35 but again, I was just making a bad legacy dcss-based joke, not trying to make some sort of point :P 21:23:03 <|amethyst> !tell wheals btw, should Fe -> En be recommended now that felid claws do tier 1 stab damage 21:23:03 |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know. 21:24:09 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-3034-g0614c1b: Cap singularities at one per caster. 10(50 seconds ago, 2 files, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0614c1b1eb3e 21:24:28 i knew it 21:28:28 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:36 <|amethyst> that does remind me 21:28:39 -!- heteroy_ is now known as heteroy 21:29:25 <|amethyst> I guess it would be a Veh nerf to support Singularity 21:30:10 <|amethyst> since it increases the chance of getting something you haven't trained for, and there's only one other supported tloc 21:30:22 <|amethyst> s/for/for as one of your L9s/ 21:31:37 seems kind of inconsistent though 21:32:00 <|amethyst> yeah 21:32:11 I guess the weighting of sigularity could be different somehow? 21:32:59 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:38 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:01 -!- Xeiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:34:01 -!- Xeiph_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:37:19 -!- Maera has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:32 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 21:39:49 looks like |amethyst was 21:39:51 !glasses 21:39:51 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 21:39:52 iced 21:40:18 he got a bit of a 21:40:20 !glasses 21:40:20 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 21:40:21 <|amethyst> ought to be a fun ghost 21:40:22 chilly reception 21:40:27 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 21:40:42 !lg neil 21:40:43 9776. neil the Conjurer (L7 DECj), slain by an ice beast on D:5 on 2014-12-08 03:38:39, with 641 points after 4241 turns and 0:10:49. 21:40:58 !lg neil xl>=18 21:40:59 18. neil the Metallomancer (L25 GrEE of Vehumet), blasted by an acid blob (splash of acid) on Depths:5 (grunt_zot_entry_bicorn) on 2014-07-05 23:42:59, with 534553 points after 74017 turns and 5:14:11. 21:41:01 <|amethyst> D:5 IMB + bsphere + dspray (+ m dart) 21:41:14 an acid blob 21:41:29 -!- Dixie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:41:49 5:14, so neil is a fastplayer like Grunt 21:41:51 <|amethyst> !lg . xl>=18 s=kmsg 21:41:51 Unknown field: kmsg 21:41:54 <|amethyst> !lg . xl>=18 s=killer 21:41:54 !lg trun 21:41:54 18 games for |amethyst (xl>=18): 2x a titanic slime creature, 2x a stone giant, 2x an orb of fire, 2x neil's illusion, 2x, Norris, a wolf spider, an ogre mage, an acid blob, an orb spider, a 17-headed hydra, a large abomination, a white draconian monk 21:41:55 No games for trun. 21:42:02 !lg grunt 21:42:02 1412. SGrunt the Hand of Fortune (L24 KoAr of Nemelex Xobeh), slain by an orc warrior (a +0 halberd) (led by Saint Roka) on Crypt:2 on 2014-12-08 01:52:01, with 402047 points after 78495 turns and 4:02:28. 21:42:43 !lg . xl>=18 s=ckiller 21:42:44 43 games for gammafunk (xl>=18): 20x winning, 11x quitting, 2x an acid blob, an Executioner, an angel, an ettin, a fire giant zombie, Margery, a player illusion, a bone dragon, stupidity, a pandemonium lord, a balrug 21:42:57 <|amethyst> !lg . xl>=18 s=ckiller 21:42:57 18 games for |amethyst (xl>=18): 2x a stone giant, 2x a player illusion, 2x a titanic slime creature, 2x an orb of fire, 2x winning, a wolf spider, Norris, a draconian monk, an orb spider, a hydra, a large abomination, an acid blob, an ogre mage 21:43:10 <|amethyst> forgot that killer is empty for winning but ckiller is not 21:45:45 !lg . xl>=18 s=ckiller 21:45:45 52 games for doy (xl>=18): 32x winning, 2x an ancient lich, 2x an Executioner, 2x a lich, a reaper, a deep elf priest, a flayed ghost, an Ice Fiend, a death ooze, an illusion of Mara, a yaktaur captain, water, a deep elf master archer, an azure jelly, a golden dragon simulacrum, a Killer Klown, a smoke demon, a spriggan air mage 21:46:20 !lg . ckiller=water 21:46:21 2. doy the Bewitcher (L14 SpEn of Okawaru), drowned on Lair:4 on 2008-02-24 20:56:02, with 63810 points after 33053 turns and 4:21:21. 21:46:25 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:29 !lg . ckiller=water xl>=18 21:46:30 1. doy the Bludgeoner (L20 MiBe of Trog), drowned on D:23 on 2007-12-06 06:21:24, with 310092 points after 60743 turns and 6:00:24. 21:46:34 !banish PleasingFungus 21:46:35 Grunt casts a spell. PleasingFungus is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:47:00 I hear you died 21:47:00 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 21:47:04 -!- speranza has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:15 -!- speranza_ is now known as speranza 21:47:20 !hellfirestorm PleasingFungus 21:47:33 PleasingFungus: you would not believe it 21:48:00 PleasingFungus: not wearing his second ring. low mr, had an mr+ arte ring. died due to petr but had 4 !cancel in inventory 21:48:17 *had an unwon mr+ arte ring 21:48:21 *unworn 21:48:22 nice 21:48:27 !banish gammafunk 21:48:28 Grunt casts a spell. gammafunk is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:48:29 on all counts 21:49:13 you should see a tv from earlier in that game too. 21:49:21 !lm sgrunt 9995 -tv:<3.0 21:49:22 9995. SGrunt, XL24 KoAr, T:77831 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 21:50:07 I'm looking at the bone armour message you mentioned. I'm not really sure how that could happen... 21:50:16 however, if it did, please blame wheals. 21:50:31 wwwhhheeeaaalllsss 21:50:35 oh wait no it's me 21:50:36 PleasingFungus: ask HDA about it; he saw it 21:50:42 also watch the tv!!! 21:50:49 it is just getting to the good part 21:51:27 (just after I go back downstairs is the important part 21:51:38 mm, kebab 21:52:23 dang 21:52:27 headshot 21:52:38 how noisy is iron rod right now? 21:52:43 p noisy 21:52:46 good. 21:52:53 possibly not noisy enough 21:53:09 ya; it seems like noise might be a good balance tool 21:53:10 it is not e.g. fireball noisy 21:53:10 if one is needed 21:53:13 o 21:53:30 You evoke the iron rod. GONNNNG! 21:54:12 tbf I did have 27 evo here 21:54:12 so 21:54:23 even so I think it is a bit excessive 21:55:07 ya 21:55:10 anyway tell me about the blurry vision thing! 21:55:18 oh, hm 21:55:24 I started reading a blink scroll 21:55:28 yeah, blurry vision should make aborting give you a warning 21:55:35 yeah 21:55:38 sorry, catching up on the log 21:59:48 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3035-g0fbfc63: Remove another "something's corpse armour" (Grunt) 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 19+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0fbfc63011dc 22:00:31 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:01:34 gammafunk: fwiw, I don't think blink is that great a spell design 22:01:57 it's not awful but I'm not very fond of the "no spellpower" thing 22:02:32 well I think the basic concept is what's good about it; it requiring more spellpower, I'm not sure, maybe something better could be done there 22:02:32 -!- Xeiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:02:35 maybe blink should have a timeout 22:02:37 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:49 -!- AlphaQ_ is now known as AlphaQ 22:02:51 which decreases with spellpower 22:03:28 yeah something like that could work I guess 22:04:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:04:21 not sure that adding yet another status effect is a good idea though 22:04:25 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:38 it would be -tele 22:04:49 hmmm 22:04:55 that could be interesting, actually 22:05:34 my main concern is that I'm not sure blink actually needs a *nerf* 22:05:35 doy: working on something you might be interested in seeing; just going to check that it does what I expect it to before I show it to you 22:05:48 (it's not really something I expect to land, but it is an interesting proof of concept) 22:05:51 but I guess I don't know how else you could make spellpower relevant on a level 2 spell 22:06:18 yeah, that's the thing 22:07:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:19 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:07:25 give a modest chance to reblink if you land next to a monster, have that chance scale with power 22:08:06 -tele on blink at low power would be pretty grotesque for backgrounds like Wz and Wr which are already pretty mediocre 22:08:36 rename blink to blinkjump, make it set exh 22:09:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3036-ga61b72e: Warn before cancelling blurry ?blink (Grunt) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a61b72e6ad51 22:10:18 PleasingFungus: you could have said (rip Grunt) ! 22:10:24 missed opportunity 22:10:36 dang. 22:11:12 I suspect there will be more opportunities :) 22:12:14 doy: here we go: 22:12:16 http://sprunge.us/Pddc 22:13:10 (sadly I can't find the pithy ##crawl-dev quote) 22:13:18 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:34 yeah, i don't know about that 22:14:09 I have a request: can we make "ghost demon" a monster flag, rather than an increasingly ponderous || chain 22:14:14 oh 22:14:21 alternately we can do what we were talking about the other day 22:14:31 and de-ghost-demonify servitors & liches and things 22:14:31 !send PleasingFungus flag orders of ponderousness 22:14:31 Sending flag orders of ponderousness to PleasingFungus. 22:14:36 ? 22:14:39 hm 22:14:39 i mean, why just wizards, and not orc wizards, or deep elf mages, or whatever 22:14:50 doy: yeah, it is a slippery slope I'd rather not go down 22:14:59 yeah 22:14:59 then why did you implement it!!!!!!!!!!! 22:15:08 nvm sorry 22:15:23 !lg * killer="shard shrike" 22:15:24 6. one1010 the Heavyweight Champion (L27 TrMo of Cheibriados), slain by a shard shrike (created by the effects of Hell) on Coc:3 on 2014-12-05 00:15:03, with 895974 points after 73763 turns and 11:55:45. 22:15:25 I'm known for implementing bad ideas for the main purpose of seeing just how bad they are <_< 22:15:32 !tv * killer="shard shrike" 22:15:32 6. one1010, XL27 TrMo, T:73763 requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 22:15:42 dangerous 22:15:57 1learn add Grunt 22:15:58 !lg * killer="shard shrike" s=ikiller 22:15:58 6 games for * (killer='shard shrike'): 4x the effects of Hell, 2x a shard shrike 22:16:03 hm 22:16:25 !gamesby one1010 22:16:26 one1010 has played 161 games, between 2014-03-09 17:22:06 and 2014-12-06 22:31:45, won 0, high score 895974, total score 2600961, total turns 792218, play-time/day 0:20:51, total time 3d+22:55:05. 22:16:31 . . . 22:16:35 won 0, in coc with a trchei 22:16:42 !hs one1010 22:16:42 161. one1010 the Heavyweight Champion (L27 TrMo of Cheibriados), slain by a shard shrike (created by the effects of Hell) on Coc:3 on 2014-12-05 00:15:03, with 895974 points after 73763 turns and 11:55:45. 22:16:44 !log one101 coc 22:16:45 No games for one101 (coc). 22:16:46 !hs one1010 -2 22:16:46 160/161. one1010 the Axe Maniac (L27 HOFi of Ru), blasted by a starcursed mass (accursed screaming) on Abyss:1 on 2014-11-16 20:23:04, with 654119 points after 86999 turns and 13:44:34. 22:16:50 !log one1010 coc 22:16:50 . . . . 22:16:50 1. one1010, XL27 TrMo, T:73763: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/one1010/morgue-one1010-20141205-001503.txt 22:17:06 oh crap 22:17:14 that was a bad hell effect 22:17:14 yeah basically any decent hell effect would have killed him there 22:17:18 the ice fiend alone was probably enough 22:17:24 idk how i feel about that ikiller list 22:17:29 no 22:17:32 QDA!!! 22:17:34 that ice fiend wouldn't have killed him 22:17:35 ! 22:17:36 not even close 22:17:58 with those defenses it'd barely do anything to him 22:18:11 but shard shrikes are another story 22:18:24 I wonder if it would make sense to de-band hell effect shrikes 22:18:36 that sounds like 22:18:38 a band-aid solution 22:18:45 well how many t-1 do we place in those effects? 22:18:52 maybe we could go by that limit 22:18:57 treating one b as a t-1 22:19:10 fiendish shrikes 22:19:11 I'm trying to remember where the code is 22:19:15 or maybe just that limit + 1, depending 22:19:16 I found it the other day but it was in a weird place 22:19:23 !send PleasingFungus something hellishly buggy 22:19:23 Sending something hellishly buggy to PleasingFungus. 22:19:34 oh man I found it 22:19:36 gammafunk 22:19:38 !function _hell_effects 22:19:39 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/effects.cc;hb=HEAD#l1199 22:19:43 they're in 22:19:45 effects.cc 22:19:51 man way to steal my thunder 22:20:01 !send PleasingFungus thundershrikes 22:20:01 Sending thundershrikes to PleasingFungus. 22:20:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:40 I wonder if shard shrikes were an error 22:20:42 // Try to summon at least one and up to five random monsters. {dlb} 22:20:48 they may be a failed experiment 22:20:59 threat variance is just so insanely high 22:21:18 well, I mean you wanted something that'd have an effect 22:21:26 I do think hell effects should not be that severe 22:22:19 -!- maha_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 22:22:34 give them chain lightning 22:22:56 * ontoclasm stands defiantly in death's door! 22:23:04 I think they're fine as random enemies, just the hell effect thing is excessive 22:23:19 also they're vicious as degeneration results but degeneration is silly 22:24:45 PleasingFungus: looks like you have a chance for a t-1 by itself, but you could still get a bunch from the random monsters at the end 22:25:11 yeah 22:25:17 does that placement do a band of them? 22:25:17 they're pretty rare as random spawns in hell, tho 22:25:22 it seems like it does? 22:25:32 hm 22:25:38 or it might just make its own werid band 22:25:40 simple fix is to place them without band 22:25:40 *weird 22:25:52 [20:18] PleasingFungus I wonder if it would make sense to de-band hell effect shrikes 22:28:32 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:33 yeah but I was furious at the world at 20:18 and hence deaf to all input 22:28:38 that's fair 22:29:09 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:30:16 I wonder if you could do some kind of HD-based filtering 22:30:46 to make it less of a "band-aid" 22:31:19 unknown monster: "shard_shrike" 22:31:19 %??shard_shrike 22:31:26 oh 22:31:34 ??shard_shrike 22:31:34 shard shrike[1/1]: got a band of four of these and it's like watching an episode of star wars 22:31:39 welp 22:31:56 21 HD 22:31:59 Ice Fiend (161) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 78-115 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 2509(claw)12(cold:18-53), 2509(claw)12(cold:18-53) | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, fly | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 2892 | Sp: b.cold (3d27) [06!sil], s.torment [06!sil] | Sz: Large | Int: high. 22:31:59 %??ice fiend 22:32:23 Yeah, from what I can see, the hell effect placement will respect bands 22:32:40 can you pass a flag to mgen? 22:32:44 which makes sense, with how it places skele warriors 22:32:51 man who fucking knows 22:32:54 ah 22:32:56 yes 22:32:57 flags 22:33:20 bool permit_bands() const { return flags & MG_PERMIT_BANDS; } 22:33:32 from the mgen_data class 22:33:34 I don't think we want to forbid like 22:33:40 wight, skelewarrior, hell hound bands 22:33:49 PleasingFungus: yeah, well your hd check can turn off bands 22:33:55 but at least you can control it 22:34:00 the thing is 22:34:04 we don't know the type yet 22:34:14 in _hell_effects 22:34:20 we just say "generate me a random monster and/or band" 22:34:49 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:53 PleasingFungus: I'd say then you probably want to place them in the same case/branch as the ice fiend 22:35:00 and maybe..hrm 22:35:16 you need a way to do a veto 22:35:35 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:58 Grunt might know a good trick for this, but yeah I don't think you need to just declare the enemy bad because of hell effect bands; that seems fixable 22:36:03 of course, it's your monster 22:36:07 possibly 22:36:21 hell effect bands should take a hand-crafted list of "good monster types for hell effects" 22:36:26 rather than just "random shit from the branch" 22:36:30 yeah 22:36:50 perhaps even a pop entry, but I don't know you can specify no band through that system either 22:37:11 PleasingFungus: 100% shrikes 22:37:33 perhaps a means to do so would be useful, but there are probably a few ways you could go about getting better control 22:37:41 hellfire shrikes 22:37:52 !lg ontoclasm xl>=18 s=ckiller 22:37:53 34 games for ontoclasm (xl>=18): 14x winning, 2x an electric golem, 2x Wiglaf, an ice dragon, an orb spider, a stone giant skeleton, a lich, acid, a yaktaur captain, a titan, a cyclops, a vault warden, a greater naga, an azure jelly, a stone giant, a hellion, a pandemonium lord, a deep troll earth mage, an ancient lich 22:37:54 gammafunk: we could just specify 'no shrikes' in the random batch of guys part (just place them as an alternative to ice fiends) 22:37:59 (in the earlier if) 22:38:30 PleasingFungus: well the random batch of guys part just uses an mgen monster value of random monster, no? 22:38:39 that gets resolved to branch random monster 22:38:47 yes...? 22:39:03 you're saying never place them on the normal level aside from hell effects? 22:39:17 no 22:39:18 otherwise I just don't understand what you mean 22:39:37 give me a sec 22:41:07 well it does return the monster created, I guess, so you could go that route 22:41:15 no 22:41:16 but that would be hakish 22:41:20 *hackish 22:41:21 no I'm not suggesting that 22:41:22 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:41:24 hashish 22:41:35 [20:36] PleasingFungus hell effect bands should take a hand-crafted list of "good monster types for hell effects" 22:41:39 ^ do that and then 22:41:41 just 22:41:42 don't put shrikes in that list 22:42:38 ok, but you're talking then of changing the generic band placement coe to be aware of when the requested monster is a hell effect? 22:42:47 fr: shroom shrikes 22:42:56 I am not. 22:42:57 (not really) 22:43:09 alright, well it's probably more productive for you to simply make your patch 22:43:53 I think we want the same thing; I'm commenting on how create_monster() works and is currently used, but you have something specific to change the behaviour appropriately 22:44:03 *appropriate, it sounds like 22:44:06 god dang it 22:44:27 why are keys type word I see the on? 22:45:02 asdf 22:52:06 quit 22:52:09 oops 22:52:10 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:20 -!- ruwin has quit [] 22:52:37 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:56 -!- j__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:03:57 !send johnstein shock shrikes 23:03:57 Sending shock shrikes to johnstein. 23:04:45 too late, my TrBe already died 23:05:08 dunno why I thought I could kill Mara at XL16 23:06:24 !lm . uniq=mara min=xl 23:06:25 35. [2012-07-01 20:47:34] SGrunt the Convoker (L15 MuSu of Sif Muna) killed Mara on turn 54768. (Vaults:5) 23:06:30 ? ? ? ? ? ? 23:06:33 !lm . uniq=mara min=xl -2 23:06:34 34/35. [2013-02-06 02:28:32] SGrunt the Crack Shot (L15 HEGl of Fedhas) killed Mara on turn 37906. (D:19) 23:06:41 these are probably GOODPLAYERS 23:06:49 !lm . uniq=mara min=xl -3 23:06:50 33/35. [2013-12-31 04:27:08] SGrunt the Eclecticist (L16 SpAM of Okawaru) killed Mara on turn 78809. (Shoals:2) 23:06:58 wow I do not remember that one 23:06:58 !lg . killer=mara 23:06:59 !lm . uniq=mara min=xl -3 -tv 23:06:59 No games for johnstein (killer=mara). 23:07:00 33/35. SGrunt, XL16 SpAM, T:78809 (milestone) requested for FooTV: telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org. 23:07:04 !lg . ckiller=mara 23:07:05 No games for johnstein (ckiller=mara). 23:07:07 !lm . uniq=mara min=xl 23:07:08 5. [2013-08-12 19:56:59] doy the Executioner (L20 MiDK of Yredelemnul) killed Mara on turn 49404. (Vaults:4) 23:07:09 !lg johnstein cikiller=mara 23:07:09 1. johnstein the Axe Maniac (L20 MiBe of Trog), mangled by johnstein's illusion (woven by Mara) on Crypt:4 on 2013-05-18 07:28:10, with 285883 points after 64427 turns and 12:01:13. 23:07:14 MANGLED 23:07:19 hm 23:07:20 i tend to avoid mara 23:07:21 not that one 23:07:24 !lg * vmsg~~woven_by_it 23:07:27 !lg . 23:07:29 3. Torious the Demonologist (L15 DESu of Sif Muna), blasted by a shadow dragon (bolt of negative energy) (summoned by the player character (woven by it)) on Snake:3 on 2013-12-19 00:34:13, with 121638 points after 27847 turns and 7:02:10. 23:07:30 204. johnstein the Brawler (L16 TrBe of Trog), blasted by Mara (illusionary) (bolt of fire) on Spider:3 on 2014-12-07 22:56:53, with 135532 points after 34343 turns and 3:38:37. 23:07:30 !lg . cikiller=mara 23:07:31 1. doy the Severer (L18 DrCr of Yredelemnul), blasted by an illusion of Mara (bolt of lightning) (woven by Mara) on Vaults:3 on 2010-01-28 05:50:10, with 184232 points after 54024 turns and 9:33:40. 23:07:36 I got away 23:07:44 then thought "HEY MAYBE I CAN KILL HIM" 23:07:49 !lg johnstein cikiller~~mara 23:07:49 2. johnstein the Brawler (L16 TrBe of Trog), blasted by Mara (illusionary) (bolt of fire) on Spider:3 on 2014-12-07 22:56:53, with 135532 points after 34343 turns and 3:38:37. 23:07:51 and went back. then got hurt 23:07:51 there 23:08:07 then instead of blinking, I thought "HEY I WILL TELE SO I CAN SAVE MY BLINK SCROLL" 23:08:07 wow this is gutsy on my part 23:08:18 and kept quaffing stupid hw 23:08:43 -!- DrStalker has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:23 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1/20141106120505]] 23:11:10 -!- perttiboi has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:11:45 Hm. My brain is blank: what's the right way to describe the distribution "for (i = 0; i < 4; i++) if (one_chance_in(3)) x++" 23:11:55 I'd like to document the average. 23:12:21 -!- endou_____ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:12:28 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: binomial distribution 23:12:47 thank you 23:13:11 oh, that's a very simple mean 23:13:43 -!- DrStalker_ is now known as DrStalker 23:13:57 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: btw, we have a function for that 23:14:14 1learn add |amethyst <|amethyst> we have a function for that 23:14:21 I think it would be indirection in this case 23:14:24 you'll see in a sec 23:15:05 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: (though its trial_prob is out of 100, which means there will be rounding error converting that loop) 23:16:27 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-3037-gbe5b78e: Refactor hell effect code 10(37 seconds ago, 1 file, 104+ 83-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be5b78e87760 23:16:53 !source _minor_hell_summons 23:16:55 Couldn't find _minor_hell_summons in the Crawl source tree 23:16:59 feh 23:17:09 |amethyst: check out _minor_hell_summons() in that commit 23:17:47 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: ah, I see 23:20:19 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 23:21:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:21:40 -!- t4nk712 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:22:56 -!- cr0ne has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:06 Unstable branch on CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM updated to: 0.16-a0-3036-ga61b72e (34) 23:30:05 -!- glamas has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 23:33:45 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:46 silly idea: make Mennas' mass confusion an invocation 23:35:33 ? 23:35:44 (((since it's really Recite, amirite))) 23:37:17 mennas can't speak 23:37:19 also 23:37:27 what would making it an invocation mean 23:37:32 fire it several turns in a row? 23:38:05 how would it being an invocation be communicated to the player 23:38:18 that particular ability would not be affected by antimagic (and Beogh would consider Mennas a priest) 23:38:21 Brannock: xv 23:38:24 I get the flavor reason for this 23:38:25 hmm 23:39:39 wait 23:39:43 Mennas (11A) | Spd: 15 | HD: 19 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 15/28 | Dam: 30, 20 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 13magic(immune), 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 4552 | Sp: mass confusion, silence, minor healing (2d9) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:39:43 %??mennas 23:39:51 huh 23:39:56 I guess they're angelic abilities, not priestly? 23:40:04 right now they're 23:40:06 wizard abilities 23:40:08 iirc 23:40:10 what. 23:40:13 that's a lot of AC/EV 23:40:16 mennas is not a wizard. 23:40:26 yes. 23:40:28 Mennas (15A) | Spd: 15 | HD: 19 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 15/28 | Dam: 30, 20 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(202), 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 4552 | Sp: confuse, silence, minor healing (2d9) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:40:28 %0.14?mennas 23:40:28 I am glad you agree. 23:40:43 1learn add mennas 23:40:46 this is EXTREMELY problematic 23:42:24 question: would it be a useful tool, design-wise, to be able to make hell effect spawns nastier in deeper levels of hell? 23:42:52 I think there's sort of the potential for that at present, though hell spawn tables are very weird 23:43:02 is there a meaningful distinction between not-$ and $ 23:43:06 that is the question 23:43:10 there's layout differences 23:43:14 "convergence" 23:43:25 players are already incentivized to dive hell, so they wouldn't be spending enough time in not-$ to notice if there's much of a difference 23:43:31 that is my feeling. 23:43:58 I'll do a depth-agnostic implementation for now. 23:44:13 FR: abyss effects 23:44:30 abyss doesn't have enough effects as it is? 23:44:32 sort of kind of exist 23:44:41 since monsters can spawn in LOS in abyss 23:45:05 The Abyss spins wildly around you! 23:45:58 there's also special code for messages when death cobs spawn in LOS of the player in abyss 23:46:04 but I'm not sure that can even happen, these days...? 23:46:06 that owns 23:46:09 since they aren't in the abyss list at all 23:46:11 ya it does. 23:46:27 are death knights on the abyss spawn list? 23:46:34 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:39 actually I don't think those can get death cobs any more either 23:46:43 They are. 23:46:50 FR: zotbinders 23:47:00 !source delay.cc:1232 23:47:00 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/delay.cc;hb=HEAD#l1232 23:47:00 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.1.1/20141113143407]] 23:47:11 I'm still in love with 1254, for what it's worth 23:47:26 " manifests%2$s!%1$.0s" 23:48:22 FR: Boltzmann unique that shows up only in Abyss 23:48:40 ...oh, that's gruntcode, actually 23:48:42 hi, grunt. 23:50:12 I don't think I originally wrote that line, even though it's in one of my commits. 23:50:19 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3038-gc823729: Rename and generalise binomial_generator. 10(33 minutes ago, 3 files, 15+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c823729374cd 23:50:19 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-3039-gce6702b: Use binomial in a couple of places. 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ce6702b73e03 23:50:21 bh and I had great fun figuring out how to format that <_< 23:50:24 <|amethyst> I think bh wrote it with my help 23:50:30 <|amethyst> or maybe it was just bh, forget 23:50:37 I think you were helping too :) 23:52:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: %N$ is how you do out-of-order substitution in printf 23:52:43 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: and the .0 is so it doesn't actually display the first parameter (you still need to refer to it so C varargs crap knows how big it is on the stack) 23:53:20 <|amethyst> The alternative would be to use a collection of @substitutions@ 23:53:36 <|amethyst> (or string-generating lambdas) 23:54:03 |amethyst: the comment for binomial() starts a line too early, I think? It's on the /**, not the following * 23:54:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that's how we usually do it 23:54:37 uh 23:54:39 is it 23:54:42 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: though maybe I shouldn't have had the blank line 23:55:01 <|amethyst> oh, hm 23:55:05 <|amethyst> I guess not "usually" 23:55:20 all of mine start on the following line 23:55:42 I don't know that I *mind* the other way, it's just... 23:56:50 <|amethyst> ah, I see, it's 1109 to 147 in your favour 23:57:03 <|amethyst> feel free to correct any of those you want 23:57:03 ...we have that many commented functions? 23:57:26 can you grep for roughly how many functions we have? I'm curious 23:57:41 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: well, some of those are file comments too 23:57:44 <|amethyst> hm 23:57:48 <|amethyst> let me check my tags file 23:57:49 we don't have that many files, tho 23:57:54 well 23:57:59 I guess we have enough to be significant on that scale 23:59:06 <|amethyst> hm 23:59:13 <|amethyst> hard to determine from my tags file 23:59:26 * Grunt pokes |amethyst. "Tag, you're it!" 23:59:29 * Grunt runs off giggling.