00:00:18 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:52 thanks... I thought it would be fun to make a ghetto-tiles console set, things like 🍞 for bread ration and such 00:02:32 imo ☃ 00:02:50 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:02:54 -!- Wahaha has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:25 Orb of zot: đŸ’© 00:03:28 moose: what happens is that those end up taking up multiple columns and mess up the console display, or something like that 00:03:50 and what they do depends in part on the font, I think 00:03:56 for sure. 00:04:23 only some are well-behaved in all fonts (I guess that some being "single-width according to these esoteric unicode rules") 00:04:38 moose: that's a pretty crappy glyph... 00:04:58 it didn't render in irri on my terminal 00:05:05 *irssi 00:05:18 I probably need to install better font junk 00:08:37 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1761-g9575c7c (34) 00:17:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:18:38 -!- Artelis has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:32:00 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 00:33:18 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:35:08 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:37:40 -!- mineral has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:05 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:49 -!- Buxus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:40:35 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ăƒ’ăƒŒăƒ­ăƒŒèŠ‹ć‚ïŒ] 00:40:46 -!- Krakhan|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:43:50 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:53 !tell PleasingFungus I am seeing a lot of people using Irradiate. dang. 00:47:53 Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 00:51:22 -!- Kramin|BNC is now known as Kramin 00:55:25 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:09:13 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:01 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:15:49 -!- Cheburashka has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21:42 -!- Artelis_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:23:05 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:30:36 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:30:51 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:37:47 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 01:38:16 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:53 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:00 In the meantime before tso stabbing is fixed, can he at least be changed to allow stabbing evil monsters? 01:47:05 I can't even hit a distracted orb guardian 01:47:53 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1761-g9575c7c 01:54:02 Orb Guardian (06X) | Spd: 14 | HD: 15 | HP: 65-102 | AC/EV: 13/13 | Dam: 45 | 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown | XP: 2765 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 01:54:02 %??orb guardian 01:54:06 necromancer (16p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 31-50 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 619 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), agony, animate dead, simulacrum / b.fire (3d18), agony, invisibility, animate dead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 01:54:06 %??necromancer 01:54:17 Not Evil, technically 01:55:03 -!- Mottikins__ is now known as FaMott 02:00:25 -!- theTower has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:07:11 You can't stab giant orange brains which are evil 02:07:16 giant orange brain (04G) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 43-67 | AC/EV: 2/4 | 10doors, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(100), asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | XP: 709 | Sp: brain feed, cause fear, shadow creatures, mass confusion, blink, 04esc: teleport self | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 02:07:16 %??giant orange brain 02:07:35 anyway tso stabbing is a mess, I'll just stay away from him till it's changed :x 02:08:16 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:16:06 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:17:27 why are you getting stabs 02:17:35 summons? 02:18:36 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:18:41 yes 02:18:58 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1761-g9575c7c (34) 02:23:01 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:31 -!- bullock has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:32:57 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:39:15 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:30 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:52:43 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 02:55:26 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:57:39 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:59:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:03 -!- FaMott has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:07:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:10:17 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:27:51 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:37:12 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:38:40 -!- mineral is now known as read 03:39:22 -!- Ratboiler is now known as Ratboiler2 03:43:05 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:45:05 -!- yogidabear has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:47:37 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:25 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:05:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:26 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:22:32 -!- Ratboiler2 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:23:47 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:37:36 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:13 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:48:44 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:54 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:15 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:35 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:47 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:56:49 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:57:13 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:11 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 05:01:56 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:23 -!- drke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:28 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 05:04:19 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:05:17 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07:57 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:25 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:14:01 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:27 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:08 -!- winlu has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev] 05:32:01 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:02 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:39:05 -!- genocide has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:40:41 -!- drke_ is now known as drke 05:41:16 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:59 you can solve the window title problem in emacs by setting title in the frame parameters. or set name and use appName 05:43:17 (emacs is weird, each frame can have a different appName) 05:43:35 whoops, channel 05:46:36 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:16 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:48:30 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:08 -!- y2s82 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:09 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:47 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:53 -!- RFR has quit [Client Quit] 05:57:16 Possible virus in Windows tiles version 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9109 by ThreeInvisibleDucks 06:00:32 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:31 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:18 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:26 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:06:43 -!- Galewind has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:08:35 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:09:40 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:13:12 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:37 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:18:37 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 06:30:39 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:32:03 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:43 -!- kroki has quit [Client Quit] 06:52:43 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:55:21 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:58:22 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:55 -!- M1zzu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:14:17 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:33 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:23:04 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:23:15 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:07 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:33:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:38:09 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:39:08 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 07:39:11 SA: "If there were another set of 5-10 rotating no-rune branches that all had 2-3 levels and maybe 3-4 of them generated between D:6-12 each game, that would add a lot of variety..." 07:39:11 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 07:39:15 silly players 07:39:29 !messages 07:39:29 (1/1) bhaak said (21h 15m 13s ago): pingping 07:39:37 bhaak: Zu Diensten! 07:40:59 * dpeg is very happy that our SA resident devs (PF and roct?) gotta deal with this nonsense :) 07:45:32 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:47:29 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:51:39 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:40 -!- _D_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:54:29 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:20 Grunt: The truth is setting lots of fire giants free, eh? 07:59:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:00:54 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:57 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:12:39 -!- Apachew has quit [Client Quit] 08:15:15 -!- keszocze has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:18:05 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:20:28 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:50 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:27:48 Lasty_, you should add acid bees to rod of the swarm and foxfire card :) 08:28:30 That would represent a gigantic power boost to both . . . I wasn't sure it was a good idea 08:29:01 Also, sadly no one has yet died from caustic wasps 08:30:20 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1762-g8914f2a: Refactor short sword brand probability 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 30+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8914f2a84584 08:35:58 dpeg, it looks like unidentified jewels and amulets are also lightblue -- this isn't so great since the light colours for those are reserved for artefacts 08:36:07 i guess lightblue could just be offlimits 08:36:35 but it takes away the fun of seeing light jewellery and being excited :( 08:39:33 wheals: I think it'd be very helpful if lightblue was not used for jewellery, yes (this is also what elliptic mentioned the other day). 08:39:51 it is not about "light colours", only "lightblue rings/amulets" 08:43:11 hm, this is bad -- tso penance prompt is after the check for whether you could reach far enough (on a polearm) 08:44:52 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:47 wheals: so the goal would be that "lightblue" is reserved for unidentified items of all kinds (so we'd have to change crossbows/bolts, gloves, phials of flood, and disallow lightblue as a randart colour). 08:48:44 oh, seems sensible 08:49:35 I don't know who came up with lightblue as "unidentified colour", but it is a pretty good choice: it is one of the least light among light colours, if you know what I mean 08:52:58 <|amethyst> colours (bright): black: nothing (bad item); red: pol (randart); green: sta (randart); yellow: sli (randart); blue: bow (xbw); magenta: axe (randart); cyan: sbl (lbl); white: mf (blowguns) 08:53:19 <|amethyst> so we could take lightred, lightgreen, yellow, or lightmagenta away from randarts 08:53:43 <|amethyst> I think armour has more colours available 08:54:15 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:51 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:56:07 I don't understand: what do you mean e.g. by "yellow: sli (randart)"? 08:56:14 -!- LordSloth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:36 <|amethyst> dpeg: dark yellow (brown) is used for slings, light yellow for randart weapons 08:57:29 <|amethyst> armour has lightgrey reserved for animal skins right now 08:57:29 ok! 08:57:47 <|amethyst> that seems like a bit of a waste :) 08:58:11 |amethyst: so you think moving lightblue off crossbows/bolts is not an option? 08:58:33 <|amethyst> dpeg: it's an option; that was to figure out where they might go 08:58:49 <|amethyst> dpeg: it seems like they'd need to replace one of those four randart colours 08:59:47 or merge large rock/stone colours 08:59:58 <|amethyst> for armour, maybe a chain shift glove -> blue boot -> green barding -> lightgreen 09:00:16 <|amethyst> wheals: how does that do anything? 09:00:21 <|amethyst> wheals: we don't have unidentified ammo 09:00:22 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00:38 <|amethyst> wheals: so don't need an extra colour there 09:01:20 dpeg suggested never putting anything on lightblue unless it was unidentified, i think 09:01:58 <|amethyst> well, crossbow bolts do have to move 09:02:08 <|amethyst> but they should move to wherever crossbows move 09:02:26 <|amethyst> or wherever the thing that crossbows displace moves 09:02:37 maybe ranged and melee should have different glyphs (in unicode) 09:03:28 <|amethyst> I don't know... 09:03:43 <|amethyst> I like that the item glyphs match up with the letters you use in the inv to select that kind of item 09:03:46 <|amethyst> though rods... 09:05:04 <|amethyst> maybe make randarts always an ETC_ colour 09:05:19 rods use \ in the inv 09:06:43 <|amethyst> oh, for some reason I thought we had some inventory menus that use \ to get to the known items/autopickup screen 09:06:49 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:07:22 just acq does i think? maybe shops too 09:07:44 <|amethyst> oh, right, shops don't anymore 09:07:51 <|amethyst> that must have been what I was thinking of 09:08:24 <|amethyst> but shop don't have select-by-item-class 09:08:26 _You are flooded with an inexplicable sense of dread! 09:08:27 <|amethyst> s/op/ops/ 09:08:29 * wheals is excited 09:09:20 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:25 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:09:45 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess the tough one is storm dragon armour 09:10:04 <|amethyst> dpeg: since that involves recolouring a monster too 09:10:53 <|amethyst> (and D is full unless we move something to an ETC_ colour) 09:11:04 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:11:22 <|amethyst> (or separate hydra and wyvern from dragons, because why are they on the same glyph in the first place) 09:11:49 personally I've always thought of wyverns as dragon-esque, dunno why really 09:11:52 hydra seems kind of weird though 09:12:14 There isn't really a better category for them tho, so we'd need to move them onto a new character. 09:12:38 <|amethyst> hm 09:12:45 is there a compact list of monsters and their glyphs somewhere? 09:12:53 <|amethyst> ??glyphs 09:12:53 glyphs[1/2]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html — Generated with the script http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 09:13:09 |amethyst: D with a composing character 09:13:11 <|amethyst> let me update that real quick 09:13:29 <|amethyst> Đ 09:13:38 new glyph for bows 09:14:03 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:14:06 here - a +5 hydra of freezing 09:14:07 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:42 corrode the hydra 09:14:53 <|amethyst> wyvern could go onto k 09:15:01 <|amethyst> don't know about hydra though 09:16:04 just merge hydras and dragons 09:16:05 If you wanted to lure a lot of players to their deaths, you could put it on lowercase l 09:16:12 er lowercase L, if that wasn't clear 09:16:14 i.e. get rid of hydras, and make all dragons have their heads regen 09:16:25 The 27-headed Xtahua roars! 09:16:25 <|amethyst> Wensley: doy's working on that 09:16:41 the Serpent of Hell (05D) | Spd: 14 | HD: 20 | HP: 320 | AC/EV: 16/12 | Dam: 3504(fire:20-39) per head | 05demonic, 04breaks doors, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(180), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: head 1: fire breath (3d40), head 2: fireball (3d31), head 3: hellfire (3d20), sum.dragon | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 09:16:41 <|amethyst> %??serpent of hell 09:16:53 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:00 Xtahua (05D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 133 | AC/EV: 15/7 | Dam: 35, 1709(claw), 2007(trample) | 04breaks doors, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(180), 05fire++, 03poison, 12drown | Vul: 12cold | XP: 3799 | Sp: fire breath (3d38) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 09:17:00 %??Xtahua 09:17:23 good flag 09:17:29 so the serpent of hell is now cerberus 09:17:29 the smart ones attack themselves with their claw to get a new head 09:17:44 it's a cerberus with triple breath and dragonstorm 09:17:48 An infinite-headed hydra comes into view. 09:20:06 !tell pelasingfungus i got a spooky message but no ghosts... 09:20:07 Sorry wheals, I don't know who pelasingfungus is. 09:20:11 !tell pleasingfungus i got a spooky message but no ghosts... 09:20:12 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:20:22 A -32,768-headed hydra comes into view. 09:20:40 how the heck dos sequell reject usernames 09:20:52 do you have to register now 09:20:55 to get tells 09:20:57 !seen pelasingfungus 09:20:57 Sorry potatolizard, I haven't seen pelasingfungus. 09:20:57 based on !seen 09:21:03 ha! 09:21:03 ok 09:21:23 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:21:31 !seen PelasgianFungus 09:21:32 Sorry wheals, I haven't seen pelasgianfungus. 09:22:08 <|amethyst> hm 09:22:14 oh now a ghost appears 09:22:18 and it's mine 09:22:28 <|amethyst> !tell enne testing 09:22:28 Sorry |amethyst, I don't know who enne is. 09:24:50 !tell pleasingfungus ok, this next one had the message but only one ghost (maybe i missed the other?) 09:24:51 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:25:02 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 09:27:55 <|amethyst> wheals: maybe there weren't any? 09:28:14 oh, i thought the message was given when more than two bones are loadded 09:28:19 -!- Qoo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:23 <|amethyst> probably should be 09:28:26 -!- Raccoon is now known as SpooooookyRaccoo 09:28:26 -!- SpooooookyRaccoo is now known as Raccoon 09:28:30 is it just random?? 09:28:37 <|amethyst> right now it prints the message first 09:28:47 oh, and if there aren't enough, it fails 09:28:50 i see 09:29:00 -!- Raccoon is now known as SpoooookyRaccoon 09:29:00 -!- SpoooookyRaccoon is now known as Raccoon 09:29:04 <|amethyst> hm 09:29:14 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:21 <|amethyst> so if it loads two ghosts on halloween it deletes at least one of them 09:29:57 what is the halloween gimmick 09:30:06 -!- Raccoon is now known as SpoooookyRaccoon 09:30:43 <|amethyst> multiple ghosts 09:30:49 ghosts are more likely to spawn and bones files are only removed on a coinflip or something like that 09:30:50 <|amethyst> and they aren't always deleted 09:31:13 <|amethyst> it deletes the first ghost it loads so that it won't load the same ghost twice in one game 09:31:39 <|amethyst> and then tries loading another one, which is only deleted on a one in three chance 09:31:59 <|amethyst> and ghosts have a different tile 09:34:05 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:34:40 -!- mineral has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:36 so there are only two ghosts 09:35:40 that's not enough ghosts 09:35:57 halloweenie 09:36:17 pack ghosts 09:36:52 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:37:12 well, each file can have multiple ghosts 09:37:51 -!- hypermatt has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:37:57 hm 09:37:58 oh, nice. How many ghosts per file? 09:37:59 ghostception 09:38:07 !source ghost.h 09:38:08 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ghost.h;hb=HEAD 09:38:11 increase the ghost limit per floor too 09:38:26 used to be 26 I guess? 09:38:26 so that runaway ghost chain reactions can occur 09:38:36 / Max ghosts on a lavel.const int MAX_GHOSTS = 10; 09:38:44 did anyone ever fix the no ghosts appearing in abyss? 09:38:45 in defines.h 09:39:01 <|amethyst> also a maximum of 27 ghost files per level 09:39:01 no, and there's a similar problem in pan i think 09:39:01 or at least stop allowing bones lies to be created for abyss 09:39:12 I don't think so wheals 09:39:36 -!- Eldarby is now known as GhostDad 09:39:38 well 09:39:40 -!- foophykins has quit [Client Quit] 09:39:49 at least I didn't see a ton of pan bones file 09:39:52 files 09:39:55 oh 09:40:01 -!- GhostDad has quit [Quit: them kids these days don't understand the jazz music] 09:40:04 just a maxed out number of abyss files 09:40:17 I never wrote a bug report thigh 09:40:18 i thought you meant that ghost files were made, and then loaded, and then when someone left they didn't go back to disk 09:40:19 though 09:40:22 so there would be none 09:40:49 maybe they get put back to disk if someone leaves the abyssal area without killing it? i think that would be good 09:41:05 <|amethyst> abyss saves ghosts but doesn't load them 09:41:11 oh ok 09:41:14 <|amethyst> there is an explicit check to prevent loading them 09:41:14 so just broken 09:41:19 wtf? 09:41:23 why? 09:43:03 <|amethyst> %git 2a9ad8 09:43:03 07bh02 * 0.12-a0-2448-g2a9ad8e: Dungeon Levels in the Abyss 10(1 year, 8 months ago, 7 files, 188+ 42-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2a9ad8e90899 09:43:19 <|amethyst> doesn't say 09:44:06 -!- Guest56149 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:13 <|amethyst> bh: what was the reasoning behind not loading ghosts in Abyss? They're still saved 09:44:15 sounds like a good change to make on halloween 09:44:32 <|amethyst> so s 09:45:15 <|amethyst> so trunk on CSZO right now has bones files for (besides abyss): D:3 (2), D:4 (3), Lair:8 (2), Slime:6, Vaults:3, and Zig:26 09:45:43 ouch 09:45:51 are they not shared between trunk and stable? 09:45:53 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:45:58 <|amethyst> no 09:46:36 <|amethyst> 0.15 has Bailey, Crypt:2, D:4 (3), D:6, D:12, D:14, Depths:4, Elf:3 (3), Lab, Lair:3, Sewer, Shoals:5, Slime:6, Snake:5 (2), Vaults:5 (3), Volcano, Zot 09:46:41 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:05 silly people cannot into trunk 09:47:17 <|amethyst> !lg cszo rend>=20140901 s=cv 09:47:17 No games for cszo (rend>=20140901). 09:47:22 <|amethyst> !lg * cszo rend>=20140901 s=cv 09:47:23 26194 games for * (cszo rend>=20140901): 14196x 0.16-a, 11170x 0.15, 283x 0.15-a, 209x 0.13, 142x 0.11, 75x 0.14, 59x 0.10, 59x 0.12, 0.14-a 09:47:42 <|amethyst> !lg * cszo rend>=20140920 s=cv 09:47:43 10628 games for * (cszo rend>=20140920): 5780x 0.16-a, 4345x 0.15, 163x 0.15-a, 132x 0.11, 82x 0.13, 54x 0.12, 42x 0.10, 30x 0.14 09:47:52 <|amethyst> !lg * cszo rend>=20140928 s=cv 09:47:53 3517 games for * (cszo rend>=20140928): 1896x 0.16-a, 1436x 0.15, 69x 0.11, 57x 0.15-a, 32x 0.13, 18x 0.12, 6x 0.10, 3x 0.14 09:48:34 <|amethyst> don't know if the low number of trunk ghosts is because of the halloween thing 09:49:44 <|amethyst> wheals: they're not shared because it would only be possible in one direction 09:49:47 -!- iokk has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:49:53 oh right, save compat stuff 09:50:26 <|amethyst> it used to be that they weren't shared between different trunk builds 09:51:32 <|amethyst> now they are; if it tries to load a new ghost into an old version it will fail, but that's not as big a deal since you can't start a game under an old version 09:52:23 <|amethyst> though I wonder if for halloween I should be copying bones files from all the old versions over to trunk 09:52:29 <|amethyst> "have some 0.14 ghosts" 09:52:49 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:53:08 poor crypt:4 ones 09:53:14 I suppose you don't have any of the bugged ghosts left 09:53:18 !lg * killer~~ghost max=dam x=dam 09:53:22 102691. [dam=2652] b0rsuk the Sensei (L23 NaTm), annihilated by randart's ghost on Elf:2 on 2009-05-03 17:50:51, with 331353 points after 85691 turns and 8:26:51. 09:53:52 <|amethyst> !tell pleasingfungus I think the change to always delete the first ghost placed is problematic, because it means ghosts are depleted faster than they accumulate; CSZO trunk has a lot fewer bones files right now than 0.15 despite having 30-40% more games played 09:53:52 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:54:16 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:54:24 hm, this vault has bolt traps 09:54:54 !source dat/des/lair.des 09:54:54 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/lair.des;hb=HEAD 09:55:11 doh, forgot /branches/ 09:55:15 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:53 back in 09:56:07 !tell Grunt is grunt_forest_large_clearings really supposed to place '^'s? 09:56:08 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 09:56:08 <|amethyst> !tell pleasingfungus (for halloween specifically that is; we don't want too much accumulation at other times) 09:56:09 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 09:56:38 -!- Guest56149 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:58:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:59:31 |amethyst, wheals: would you reply to my c-r-d email about the colour things? Halloween is about to start here, kids are too excited for me to chat. :) 09:59:43 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Client Quit] 10:00:27 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:14 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:08:25 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:10:25 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:12 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:14:59 <|amethyst> I wouldn't have time to until Sunday at least 10:20:02 !source _exciting_colour 10:20:03 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc;hb=HEAD#l57 10:20:21 ...did the person who wrote that not realise what random2 does? 10:20:39 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:21:41 <|amethyst> no, the person who changed that didn't notice the number 10:21:47 <|amethyst> %source 0acbe5b 10:21:47 http://s-z.org/neil/git/cheibriados.git http://s-z.org/neil/git/monster-trunk.git git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git 10:21:50 <|amethyst> err 10:21:53 <|amethyst> %git 0acbe5b 10:21:54 07|amethyst02 * 0.14-a0-1976-g0acbe5b: Magenta is boring, one might even say domestic (ChrisOelmueller) 10(10 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0acbe5bd5bbd 10:22:14 <|amethyst> I wasn't paying attention to the fact that magenta was never actually selected 10:22:23 yah... 10:23:36 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:23:51 <|amethyst> %git cf9342c 10:23:51 07jpeg02 * 0.3-a0-43-gcf9342c: Tweaked item colours and added special colouring to randarts. 10(8 years ago, 1 file, 21+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf9342cff2b0 10:23:54 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:24:09 <|amethyst> oh 10:24:33 <|amethyst> I guess it could be that the default: is there to shut up compiler warnings 10:24:45 <|amethyst> since the compiler doesn't know the range of random2 10:25:16 could be, but i want my pink randarts back! 10:25:16 :) 10:25:17 <|amethyst> I don't remember now; I might have been intending to make lightmagenta not be used 10:26:19 <|amethyst> but probably not 10:27:52 -!- lawman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:28:10 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:29 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:30:58 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:51 dpeg: ok, sent a mail summarising the discussion 10:36:16 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:30 |amethyst: the problem is that otherwise, it is entirely possible to get the same ghost twice on one floor 10:36:30 PleasingFungus: You have 9 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:36:36 which seems non-ideal 10:36:41 seems spooky imo 10:36:42 <|amethyst> yeah 10:36:56 <|amethyst> but as it is it drains ghosts faster than non-halloween does 10:37:00 dang 10:37:11 that seems odd 10:37:11 <|amethyst> because you always delete one ghost, and have a chance of deleting the next 10:37:20 well, no, you don't always delete one ghost 10:37:29 because there's only a chance of double-ghost 10:37:44 <|amethyst> oh, doh 10:38:04 it's entirely possible that the ratios are wrong, but I did think about the math before implementing this 10:38:11 <|amethyst> aha 10:38:22 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:38:31 <|amethyst> 50% of deleting 1.33 ghosts, 50% of deleting 0.33, so 0.83 ghosts deleted 10:38:41 <|amethyst> but 10:39:12 two easy fixes: (1) don't print the spooky message unless you actually succeed in loading two ghosts (or at least a doubleghost, w/e) 10:39:15 <|amethyst> you attempt to place ghosts 1.5 times as many times as other days 10:39:20 <|amethyst> one_chance_in(is_halloween ? 2 : 3) 10:39:45 (2) remove the chance for non-doubleghosts to be deleted entirely (on halloween) 10:39:47 <|amethyst> so then it's 0.83 * 1.5 ~ 1.245 times as many ghosts deleted per visited eligible level 10:40:17 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:40:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: 2 would put it back to 1.0 I think 10:40:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: option 2 10:40:32 <|amethyst> err 10:40:33 they aren't exclusive options; probably both should be implemented 10:40:36 <|amethyst> I guess those aren't options 10:40:36 <|amethyst> yeah 10:40:47 also, uh 10:40:50 isn't it 0.75? 10:41:07 1.5 * (1 + 0) / 2 10:41:20 <|amethyst> 1 + 0 ? 10:41:32 50% chance of deleting one ghost, 50% chance of deleting 0 10:41:48 <|amethyst> const bool delete_ghost = !is_halloween || one_chance_in(3); 10:42:04 suggestion (2) is to remove that ||, yes 10:42:20 which would reduce it from 1.245 to 0.75, not to 1.0 10:42:22 <|amethyst> oh 10:42:40 <|amethyst> yeah, I was miscalculating 10:42:41 Ghost Math 10:42:47 MEGA spooky 10:43:29 halloween is too short it seems 10:43:29 <|amethyst> for 1.0 I was thinking: always delete the extra first ghost, then if you did delete it, never delete the second 10:43:41 <|amethyst> then it's (1 + 1/3) / 2 = 2/3 10:43:44 <|amethyst> * 1.5 = 1 10:43:50 imho 10:43:56 I don't think we want 1.0 10:44:04 I think we want to guarantee Ghost Surplus for halloween 10:44:06 <|amethyst> less than 1.0 probably 10:44:08 <|amethyst> yeah 10:44:27 so implementing (2) now may still be in time to Save Halloween 10:44:30 <|amethyst> heh 10:44:32 <|amethyst> !date 10:44:51 !time 10:44:51 Time: Oct 31, 2014, 03:44:51 PM, UTC. 10:45:06 <|amethyst> ~eight hours left 10:48:10 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 10:48:25 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:13 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:30 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 10:53:15 -!- Nstar has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:55:30 so fwiw I don't have git access right now 10:55:36 and won't until UTC halloween ends 10:57:05 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:00:42 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:04:22 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:43 -!- Yermak has joined ##crawl-dev 11:05:16 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:13 Hi. In this commit http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=8914f2a84584849135f04a7c7bbca20a3c5b8134 total weight for dagger is 101, not 100, as Ń‹Đ”Ń„Đ”ŃƒĐČю 11:06:20 as stated* 11:06:37 Yermak: Thanks, I'll change that. 11:07:27 -!- Yermak has left ##crawl-dev 11:07:34 in and out, like a ninja 11:07:54 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:08 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:08:58 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1763-g6210343: Refactor axe brand probabilities 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 15+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=621034392d77 11:08:58 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1764-gd724b6c: Fix compilation 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d724b6cfe1a8 11:09:32 If you're wondering I pushed the first commit, then was like "Wait I think I forgot to compile" and pushed to fix before Chei updated. 11:11:36 yep 11:11:42 reaverb while you're pushing things 11:11:48 do you want to push a tiny change for me 11:11:52 PleasingFungus: Sure. 11:11:57 !source files.cc 11:11:58 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/files.cc;hb=HEAD 11:12:17 on line 1200, delete everything after "!is_halloween" 11:12:18 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:22 er 11:12:25 except for the semicolon 11:12:51 PleasingFungus: Ok. 11:12:56 thank you very much :) 11:14:33 why is pain so much rarer than the other brands 11:14:52 Lightli: presumably so kiku is better in comparision. 11:15:02 k 11:15:04 All the "god tier" brands a rare. 11:15:43 yeah 11:16:04 also surprised that electrocution is more common than flaming and freezing 11:16:28 Nice to see a Linley quote in the changelog :> 11:17:05 !send Keskitalo quotes 11:17:05 Sending quotes to Keskitalo. 11:17:16 Lightli: I'm happy you can actually see the numbers to be surprised :D 11:17:37 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1765-g73ef6fe: Make dagger brand probabilities add to exactly 100 (Yermak) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=73ef6feb54fa 11:17:37 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1766-g48814d8: Delete less ghosts on halloween (PleasingFungus) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=48814d835174 11:17:56 brutal venom dagger nerfs............ 11:18:16 dang. 11:18:27 man, I really wonder how these long if-else chains were written in the first place 11:19:08 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:19:09 PleasingFungus: they don't even have elses! 11:19:18 er 11:19:26 yeah they're like 11:19:33 inverse if-else chains, since the logic flows backwards. 11:19:44 They are Linleyisms, I believe! 11:19:48 (the later ones have priority over the earlier ones.) 11:19:52 Grunt: ! 11:19:58 oh 11:20:04 reaverb: have you considered that you are RUINING crawl's heritage???? 11:20:11 dang. 11:20:37 My guess is that the if(one_chance_in(X)) numbers were approximately how often the brand was suppose to spawn, and the overried thing was just ignored. 11:20:59 (This is from the fact got_distortion_roll() used to be function meaning "one_chance_in(25)") 11:21:02 unknown monster: "caustic wasp" 11:21:02 %??caustic wasp 11:21:07 oh 11:21:07 PleasingFungus: Conserve it on crawlcode. 11:21:11 so they actually don't exist! 11:21:19 Chei hasn't been updated yet. 11:21:21 oh 11:21:23 welp 11:21:51 the idea with wasps was that they were intended as depths 9s, right? 11:22:14 I think they were suppose to be normal spawns? 11:22:27 Lasty_: elaborate :) 11:22:31 "Caustic wasps are intended to add a top-tier fast, pack threat to 11:22:31 depths analagous to killer bees in early Dungeon." 11:22:37 Lasty already did!!! 11:22:43 %git 4ff1146e736 11:22:44 07Lasty02 * 0.16-a0-1753-g4ff1146: Add caustic wasps 10(3 days ago, 10 files, 36+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ff1146e7360 11:22:49 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:22:59 they only start midway through depths normally 11:23:00 I forget what the semi distribution indicates 11:23:02 so how much HP and EV do they have 11:23:10 PleasingFungus: 50% at edges, 100% in centre 11:23:18 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:23:28 Lightli: Still need to refactor HP so its readable <_< >_> 11:23:34 yeah, they show up in depths a little more often than tmons - which isn't that often 11:23:37 Lightli: 14 * (3 + 2.5) hp, I think 11:23:48 or, if you prefer, 28 + 14d5 11:23:57 oh 11:24:00 what about the EV 11:24:04 !calc 14 * 5.5 11:24:05 77 11:24:08 the laj ones were the only ones with if elses, btw 11:24:12 but those were by greensnark 11:24:15 (I bet-- yes) 11:24:19 ok 11:24:23 10 ac, 18 ev 11:24:27 same ev as bees 11:24:30 since laj is dcss-only 11:24:31 yeah 11:24:34 but considerably more hp and ac ofc 11:24:44 and acid melee 11:24:48 and that. 11:24:51 hey, no poison! :) 11:24:55 with massive base damage 11:25:00 How slow are they 11:25:24 speed 15 11:25:26 also tmons totally are common in depths 11:25:29 !lg . depths s=killer 11:25:30 13 games for wheals (depths): 2x a tentacled monstrosity, an ettin, a swamp dragon (shapeshifter), an ancient lich, a titan, a hell knight, a Shadow Fiend, a deep elf annihilator, a golden dragon, a wizard, an ice devil, a fire dragon 11:25:34 hahaha 11:25:43 !lg * recent depths s=ikiller 11:25:44 2315 games for * (recent depths): 157x the Enchantress, 126x a stone giant, 99x a lich, 98x a deep troll, 87x a fire giant, 80x a tengu reaver, 73x a frost giant, 73x a spriggan air mage, 59x a spriggan berserker, 59x an ettin, 57x a deep troll earth mage, 57x a vampire knight, 55x a titan, 54x, 53x a spriggan defender, 48x a deep troll shaman, 46x an octopode crusher, 41x a boggart, 33x an ice dr... 11:25:48 ......... 11:25:49 !lg . depths s=killer 11:25:50 No games for reaverb (depths). 11:25:54 ...speed 15 11:25:56 PleasingFungus: try 11:26:02 !lg * current trunk depths s=ikiller 11:26:03 366 games for * (current trunk depths): 26x a stone giant, 22x a fire giant, 16x a deep troll, 15x the Enchantress, 15x a lich, 12x a spriggan defender, 11x a vampire knight, 10x an octopode crusher, 10x a deep troll earth mage, 10x a spriggan berserker, 9x a titan, 9x an ettin, 8x a spriggan air mage, 8x a frost giant, 7x a fire dragon, 7x a tengu reaver, 6x Sojobo, 6x an iron troll, 6x a crystal... 11:26:13 With a 31 base damage acid attack, on average over 100 HP, and very good defenses 11:26:18 And they come in packs 11:26:23 !lg * depths ikiller~~enchantre s=cv 11:26:24 189 games for * (depths ikiller~~enchantre): 65x 0.14, 56x 0.15-a, 31x 0.14-a, 22x 0.15, 15x 0.16-a 11:26:27 (Are the packs at least like 2-3 or are they bee sized) 11:26:40 I forget, did we nerf the enchantress? 11:26:43 I guess we nerfed her air mages 11:26:45 no 11:26:52 I think we nerfed enchantress spawns. 11:26:58 did we? 11:27:03 !lg * depths ikiller~~enchantre s=killer 11:27:05 189 games for * (depths ikiller~~enchantre): 85x a spriggan air mage, 54x a spriggan defender, 26x the Enchantress, 12x a spriggan berserker, 7x a spriggan rider, 2x the Enchantress (illusionary), a death yak, a spriggan, a spriggan air mage (illusionary) 11:27:06 she had a 30 WEIGHT in Depths at some point for sure. 11:27:13 !lg * depths ikiller~~enchantre s=killer !current 11:27:14 152 games for * (depths ikiller~~enchantre !current): 74x a spriggan air mage, 43x a spriggan defender, 20x the Enchantress, 8x a spriggan berserker, 3x a spriggan rider, 2x the Enchantress (illusionary), a spriggan air mage (illusionary), a spriggan 11:27:18 %git HEAD^{/priggan air mage} 11:27:18 07Grunt02 * 0.15-a0-2199-g685f7f1: Remove Haste from spriggan air mages. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=685f7f1fa48a 11:27:21 ^ 11:27:21 !lg * depths ikiller~~enchantre s=killer current 11:27:22 37 games for * (depths ikiller~~enchantre current): 11x a spriggan defender, 11x a spriggan air mage, 6x the Enchantress, 4x a spriggan rider, 4x a spriggan berserker, a death yak 11:27:28 Grunt: yeah that's the one I was thinking of 11:27:28 that was the turning point right there 11:27:33 Lightli: bee sized bands. 11:27:34 and yeah, look at those ratios 11:27:54 * PleasingFungus buzzes angrily. 11:27:54 Lightli: Like, 8 caustic wasps in 1 band sometimes. 11:28:05 ok 11:28:14 * Grunt gives an irritating high-pitched whine. 11:28:18 typical! 11:28:32 good death yak incidentally 11:28:39 !lg * depths ikiller~~enchantress ckiller=death_yak 11:28:40 1. Sharkman1231 the Phalangite (L24 MfWz of Okawaru), slain by a death yak (summoned by a spriggan berserker (led by the Enchantress)) on Depths:1 on 2014-08-30 20:43:30, with 481394 points after 78516 turns and 3:48:08. 11:28:41 <3 11:28:56 So they're as fast as orbs of fire, come in big packs, base damage 31 acid, 10 AC 18 EV, have over 100 HP on average (and possibly more than an OOF if they get lucky)... 11:29:10 YUP TIME TO NEVER TOUCH DEPTHS UNTIL AFTER I BEAT VAULS 11:29:12 *VAULTS 11:29:22 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30:01 uh. 11:30:05 less than 100 hp. 11:30:13 unless I fucked up the math. 11:30:19 somewhere around 75 hp. 11:30:27 oh 11:30:29 ...and 34 base damage, I think? 11:30:36 man 11:30:39 someone should rebuild chei 11:30:42 time to hide 11:31:31 oh right, the problem with spawning them as 8s/9s was that pack monsters don't work well in that role 11:31:36 i remember that discussion 11:31:40 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:46 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 11:32:59 bleh, I never finished that stuff before it was time 11:33:14 -!- link_108 has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:09 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1767-gaf01991: Remove traps from a lair vault (wheals). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af01991e0749 11:34:16 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:45 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:36:45 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:38:43 * PleasingFungus grunts. 11:38:56 * Grunt flattens PleasingFungus like a pancake!!!!!!! 11:39:03 rip 11:39:33 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:48 "uproots pleasingfungus like a truffle" 11:40:36 -!- hauzer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:40:42 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:56 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:41:18 delicious....... 11:41:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:25 (pleasing?) 11:41:27 -!- bonger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:42:20 fungible I'd say 11:44:14 or maybe not, I'm not sure how many fungi are capable of being a truffle, pancake and pleasing simultaneously 11:45:34 you aren't pleased by truffle pancakes? 11:47:58 I'd be most certainly pleased by truffles or pancakes so I guess so 11:48:59 Things like settings/dec_glyphs.txt are suppose to be included or copy-pasted into your rc file, correct? 11:49:12 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1767-gaf01991 (34) 11:49:25 yeah, include += dec_glyphs.txt would do it 11:50:12 wheals: Ok, that means I can add a comment to files, correct? 11:50:27 (Right now they all break util/checkwhite if run from the root) 11:50:51 yeah, just put a # before it if, just like in an rcfile 11:51:01 wheals: Ok, thanks! 11:51:07 maybe checkwhite should get changed to ignore them? 11:51:21 !source util/checkwhite 11:51:22 Couldn't understand /checkwhite 11:51:24 grrr 11:51:29 Yeah, that's the other possible solution. 11:51:36 !source ability.cc 11:51:36 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ability.cc;hb=HEAD 11:51:42 !file util/checkwhite 11:51:43 Couldn't understand /checkwhite 11:51:51 !source util/checkwhite.pl 11:51:51 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/util/checkwhite.pl;hb=HEAD 11:51:54 ^ 11:52:00 Oh, nevermind. 11:52:34 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/util/checkwhite;h=84779b9934b9ed5a6576212bdf90031e530b9284;hb=HEAD 11:52:45 yeah it already ignores a bunch of files 11:52:53 all those next ifs 11:53:17 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:18 wheals: Ah, I'll probably make it ignore them then. 11:53:42 Are those matches regular expressions? 11:53:50 don't ask me for help though, perl is all greek to me 11:54:00 Hehe, Ok. 11:56:40 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1767-gaf01991 (34) 11:57:16 Ooh, cbro rebuild 11:57:47 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:58:41 -!- gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:48 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:03:35 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1767-gaf01991 (34) 12:06:30 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:28 re: caustic wasps 12:08:55 did someone say they're speed 15? I entered it as speed 20, so if it got pushed w/ speed 15 I introduced a typo. :( 12:09:44 hahaha 12:09:47 I might have misread 12:09:49 !source mon-data.h 12:09:50 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h;hb=HEAD 12:10:17 ah, was looking at the wrong number, I think 12:10:18 hm 12:10:20 what was I lookinga t? 12:10:37 ah, xp modifier 12:10:45 Lightli is going to have a fit :D 12:10:54 rip 12:10:54 haha 12:10:55 yeah 12:11:03 They're pretty scary, but manageable 1v1 12:11:27 I mean, they hit like acidic komodo dragons, but twice as fast. 12:11:45 but with decent defenses, that's handleable 12:12:00 I think they might be scariest for trolls, who have relatively few armour slots covered 12:12:12 Sure. 12:13:12 -!- M1zzu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:18 surely that means they slaughter octopodes 12:13:22 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 59-86 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:47-84) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1693 | Sp: draining gaze | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 12:13:22 %??ghost moth 12:13:37 and felids 12:13:57 It's probably rough on octopodes, yeah. Felids at least are also pretty fast. 12:14:21 anyway, they remind me of these, but nearly twice as fast and twice the ev and better at punching througha c 12:14:23 *through ac 12:14:23 I definitely made them very scary 12:14:38 because we were talking about needing more top-tier depths stuff 12:14:40 Lasty_: FiftyNine on cszo is in Depths and might be seeing caustic wasps soon.... 12:14:44 ooo 12:15:05 cefi, huh 12:15:08 !send PleasingFungus markscentaurs 12:15:09 Sending markscentaurs to PleasingFungus. 12:15:21 man, everything about that doll looks cool EXCEPT for the head 12:15:53 so with the changes to char_set it is no longer possible to get 'continuous walls' with that setting? 12:16:09 &watch FiftyNine 12:16:10 %watch FiftyNine 12:16:11 Watch FiftyNine at: https://crawl.s-z.org/#watch-FiftyNine 12:16:38 fr: greater spriggan riders 12:16:50 spriggan defender on a caustic wasp? 12:16:53 spriggan knight imo??????? 12:16:55 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:57 yikes 12:17:03 aaaaauuuugghhh 12:17:08 * Grunt cackles. 12:17:29 spriggan cavalier 12:17:46 ...spriggan knight is a better name. 12:18:03 PleasingFungus: deep elf knights and draconian knights and orc knights and 12:18:08 (spot the theme.......) 12:18:13 * PleasingFungus knights Grunt! 12:18:16 hell knights, death knights, vampire knights 12:18:18 * Grunt convulses! 12:18:22 not for the first time... 12:18:34 theTower: imo there should be a knight for every glyph 12:18:40 dragon knight 12:18:44 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:45 giant knight 12:18:47 * theTower grumbles deeply 12:18:57 demon knight!!! 12:18:58 * Grunt hears a deep grumbling! 12:19:55 spriggan chevalier....... 12:20:14 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:20 new bailey enemy!!!!! (no) 12:20:31 spriggan chevalier perm_ench:mad 12:20:42 * PleasingFungus looks very angry! 12:20:46 that is reserved for other things I should work on 12:20:47 is that a thing/ that's like a thing. 12:20:49 * Grunt goads PleasingFungus on! 12:20:52 heh 12:21:01 * Grunt calls on PleasingFungus to defend him! 12:21:11 theTower: we've noticed you're very behind at Crawl Work lately. We're afraid we're going to have to let you go. 12:21:17 rip 12:21:17 Clean out your irc desk, please. 12:21:19 yessssssssss 12:21:26 -!- theTower has left ##crawl-dev 12:21:53 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:40 !rip thetower 12:22:41 Subcommand $(!rg * recent !won !boring xl=${lm[2]} br=${lm[4]} lvl>=${lm[5]} fmt:"${vmsg}|${place}|${sc}|${turn}|${dur}") failed: '${lm[2]}' is not an integer in 'xl=${lm[2]}' in $(split | $(!rg * $(=rip.opt... in $(ripformat ${lm[0]} ${lm[1]... 12:22:48 bah 12:22:50 !rip LasTY 12:22:52 LasTY the Sensei (L23 HuTm), worshipper of Makhleb, shot by a yaktaur captain (silver bolt) on Depths:4, with 422038 points after 59721 turns and 8:15:50. 12:22:53 er 12:22:58 huh 12:23:01 !rip SGrunt 12:23:02 You spelled it wrong: 12:23:04 SGrunt the Skirmisher (L1 MuCK), worshipper of Xom, hit from afar by a kobold (stone) on D:1, with 7 points after 220 turns and 0:00:28. 12:23:05 !rip LasTTY 12:23:06 Subcommand $(!rg * recent !won !boring xl=${lm[2]} br=${lm[4]} lvl>=${lm[5]} fmt:"${vmsg}|${place}|${sc}|${turn}|${dur}") failed: '${lm[2]}' is not an integer in 'xl=${lm[2]}' in $(split | $(!rg * $(=rip.opt... in $(ripformat ${lm[0]} ${lm[1]... 12:23:07 :p 12:23:08 ha 12:23:19 !lm grunt 12:23:20 9806. [2014-10-31 03:47:08] SGrunt the Talismancer (L27 FoFi of Ru) left the Realm of Zot on turn 82309. (Zot:1) 12:23:26 !lm . -game 12:23:27 SGrunt:cbro:20140930212255S. SGrunt the Talismancer (L27 FoFi of Ru), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-10-31 03:49:10, with 1552889 points after 82864 turns and 4:48:02. 12:23:28 :) 12:23:32 hoorah! 12:23:40 Guess which sequell query of mine you just updated: 12:23:42 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:47 !lg devteam ru / won 12:23:48 4/24 games for devteam (ru): N=4/24 (16.67%) 12:23:49 * Grunt hits Lasty_ with a +9 lajatang of protection {great annihilating truth}. 12:23:55 !lg devteam ru s=name / won 12:23:56 4/24 games for devteam (ru): 2/3x Lasty [66.67%], 1/5x wheals [20.00%], 1/3x SGrunt [33.33%], 0/1x bh [0.00%], 0/1x PleasingFungus [0.00%], 0/3x dpeg [0.00%], 0/1x MarvinPA [0.00%], 0/1x gammafunk [0.00%], 0/6x neil [0.00%] 12:24:21 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:08 Still pretty bad Ru propagation through the dev team 12:25:19 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:25:25 ElanMorin: include += {old_unicode,ibm,dec}_glyphs.txt 12:25:50 Lasty_: I've been on break for a while <_< >_> 12:25:50 yeah I noticed that, wheals 12:26:02 the b in reaverb stands for break 12:26:06 but it looks like parts of the old unicode are in default now 12:26:17 other parts not however 12:26:20 Lasty_: I am literally about to worship ru 12:26:23 ! 12:26:26 dang. 12:26:32 and by about to I mean whenever I resume my cbro game 12:26:42 hopefully before halloween ends!!! 12:26:47 haha, excellent 12:26:49 (I started it in the hopes of seeing spooky halloween ghosts) 12:26:52 the only changes to default were rods, corpses, and skeletons 12:26:53 * Grunt evokes a rod. The narrow beam of energy hits PleasingFungus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 12:27:11 I didn't expect the glyph changes to affect me at all 12:27:17 but it does affect the display for "lots of stuff on a tile" 12:27:27 how so? 12:27:29 SGrunt (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 1 | Sp: b.inaccuracy (12d1503 / 12d1504) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 12:27:29 %??test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy.200.demonic name:SGrunt 12:27:34 ! 12:27:37 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:27:42 <3 12d1503.5 12:27:49 so slow 12:27:53 !rng 12d1503 12:27:53 * Sequell rolls 12d1503 for 8051 12:27:54 it displays glyphs in the message log when there are too many items to list 12:27:56 rip. 12:28:04 Here: (()))%%%% 12:28:05 or w/e 12:28:08 I made up the glyphs 12:28:11 ah, yeah 12:28:17 anyway now they are spooky tombstones 12:28:23 ~*~spooky~*~ 12:28:23 (: 12:28:24 are skeletons and corpses the same glyph still? 12:28:26 no 12:28:27 no 12:28:29 no 12:28:30 ok good 12:28:31 no 12:28:33 no 12:28:35 no!!! 12:28:36 that was annoying 12:28:37 wheals: no 12:28:38 wheals: How selective should checkwhite be in ignoring /settings 12:28:40 They are if you force IBM, right? :) 12:28:42 NOPE 12:28:44 dang 12:28:55 because I've been trying to match *glyphs.txt for a while and haven't been able to do it >_< 12:28:55 since it was hard to tell whether you could butcher stuff on a tile or not 12:28:59 wheals: for me default has ♣ as trees but the walls are still #. is this deliberate? 12:29:04 reaverb, i'd say just the *_glyph.txt ones 12:29:06 Lasty_: 12:29:08 caustic wasp spotted 12:29:09 !!!!!! 12:29:12 ElanMorin, which file did you include? 12:29:13 and dead 12:29:17 :( 12:29:20 only one :( 12:29:21 wheals: none right now 12:29:23 ElanMorin: yes, that is deliberate 12:29:25 probably vault placed 12:29:28 er, trees have been ♣ in default forevver 12:29:32 also one purple very ugly thing. RIP packs. 12:29:34 basically 12:29:39 rip 12:29:47 wheals: Yeah, that's what I've been trying to do. 12:29:50 oh I thought it was unicode specific 12:30:04 ElanMorin: we started defaulting to unicode stuff a few years ago 12:30:09 hm 12:30:38 does anyone around know perl regexes? 12:30:41 h m 12:30:42 I guess I'll just set every glyph to what I want it to be in my rc... 12:30:48 as of a couple days ago, we're only explicitly maintaining the default unicode glyphs and a set of plain ascii glyphs 12:30:51 wheals: yeah 12:31:00 ElanMorin: yup, that is the idea 12:31:09 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:13 doy, reaverb could use your help then 12:31:29 so, one thing beforehand 12:31:39 is that i don't even know if that "space: " thing works 12:31:46 because i don't know what DCHAR_SPACE is even for 12:32:03 it might be reasonable to just remove that line from those files 12:32:07 rather than fiddling with things 12:32:29 i doubt it's necessary, since both the default and ascii use ' ' for CHAR_SPACE 12:32:38 that's also true 12:32:48 maybe i should ask grunt that actually 12:32:53 So, we should just remove display_char = from those files? 12:32:57 s/should/could/ 12:32:59 Grunt: what is DCHAR_SPACE's value 12:33:01 reaverb: yeah, that would probably be simplest 12:33:04 v0v 12:33:13 I would check but I need to leave for work.... 12:33:16 that was supposed to be 12:33:22 ha 12:33:23 ! 12:33:33 i guess you only do that for gammafunk 12:33:37 12:33:41 ! 12:33:50 Ugh, more eol spaces :D 12:34:29 util/checkgrunt 12:34:53 Anyway, I guess I'll remove the display_char stuff, and if it causes problems we can revert? 12:35:38 can't imagine removing it would cause problems, since the default mapping for space is also ' ' 12:35:54 !send doy shadows 12:35:54 Sending shadows to doy. 12:35:57 heh 12:36:33 !send the shadows doy 12:36:33 Sending doy to the shadows. 12:38:09 Grunt: "todo make bands place by default on glyphs" -- as in, if a 9 rolls a band monster, place the band? 12:38:19 !send the shadowy depths of madness wheals 12:38:20 Sending wheals to the shadowy depths of madness. 12:38:23 Lasty_: possibly 12:38:53 !send the land of mordor where the shadows lie Grunt 12:38:53 Sending Grunt to the land of mordor where the shadows lie. 12:39:49 don't lie to me!!! 12:40:29 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:27 so I clearly haven't mentioned that making 098 always place bands isn't that desirable either? >_> 12:42:38 Doesn't placing "foo band" work? 12:42:49 yes, the key word is "always" 12:43:45 Hmm. (Also, I didn't catch that it was about 098, oops) 12:43:48 even if a 0 may place a sad solitary boggart, slime creature, or ugly thing, that's a gap versus e.g. a foo giant much smaller than the gap between a lone wizard and a full ugly thing / etc band 12:44:04 Is the main circumstance where it doesn't work times when there's no room to place the band, or are there other problematic incidents? 12:44:29 it's just a completely different interpretation of what a "default spawn" should be for a vault 12:45:01 if a normally banded monster is lacking its band, then it should have more than enough compensation by having more random possibly-unbanded default spawns 12:45:39 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1768-g4fe4298: Remove "display_char = space: " from *glyphs.txt files 10(8 minutes ago, 3 files, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4fe42985a64e 12:45:53 and if it plays differently without being in its usual numbers then... that's the point of using random default spawns in the first place...? 12:45:54 "should" as in "already does", or "vaults should be crafted such that" or, "we should change it so that"? 12:46:10 first, mostly 12:46:14 also, second 12:46:46 the current context being 890 monsters never getting bands 12:46:53 by default 12:47:32 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:47 that regular spawns can vary considerably in consistency and whatnot is no reason to lower the amount of control you'd get in a vault >_> 12:48:14 (of course, the word default implies it could have, say, 0 solitary, but at that point you're just exchanging syntaxes) 12:48:32 blah blah blah monsters blah blah blah maps blah. 12:49:05 you can specify "0 band" currently to allow the band to spawn if a banding monster is chosen? 12:49:09 yes 12:49:12 cool 12:49:23 that seems fine to me 12:49:28 i'm not a huge fan of making 098 place bands either, at first glance 12:49:44 it's just that, to continue to use examples, you're getting anything from (depths) vampire to yaktaur captain band 12:49:58 Sure 12:50:11 vampire to yaktaur captain is a bit less of a gap 12:50:14 I mean, the range of monster scariness on any given dungeon level is pretty broad 12:51:52 I am just saying the broadness is untenable with bands and unbanded spawns are enough 12:51:52 i just think bands would tend to water down the scariness level in a lot of cases - quite a lot of bands are "the strong monster, plus a lot of popcorn" 12:51:57 and that would affect the flavor of a lot of vaults 12:52:04 yeah 12:52:14 also an argument 12:54:09 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:38 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55:10 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:56:58 Game lies about catching in a net 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9110 by Yermak 12:57:55 aside from the one bailey, are there any problems with me bumping deep elf knight damage from 14 to 21 13:00:38 Hmm, what bot command character is free? 13:00:39 sounds fine to me, THOUGH note that they are already the top elf 1-2 killer iirc? 13:00:56 !lg * elf !elf:3 current trunk s=ikiller 13:00:57 153 games for * (elf !elf:3 current trunk): 21x a deep elf conjurer, 17x a deep elf summoner, 8x a deep elf annihilator, 7x a deep elf demonologist, 7x a deep elf mage, 6x a deep elf high priest, 6x a deep elf priest, 6x a deep elf blademaster, 4x Agnes, 3x Saint Roka, 3x Aizul, 3x a deep elf knight, 3x Asterion, 3x Nikola, 2x a glaive of protection, 2x Jorgrun, 2x a long sword of holy wrath, 2x a... 13:01:01 oh 13:01:03 hm 13:01:08 odd 13:01:09 not even close 13:01:11 !lg * elf !elf:3 s=ikiller 13:01:12 4563 games for * (elf !elf:3): 622x a deep elf knight, 435x a deep elf annihilator, 320x a deep elf master archer, 313x a deep elf demonologist, 259x a deep elf conjurer, 216x a deep elf sorcerer, 203x a deep elf blademaster, 183x, 178x a deep elf summoner, 129x a deep elf fighter, 125x a deep elf priest, 121x Nikola, 118x a deep elf high priest, 104x a deep elf mage, 101x Aizul, 63x a deep elf de... 13:01:17 interesting 13:01:21 well 13:01:31 i think a lot of deep elf knight kills used to be ranged 13:01:36 they got hurt by haste being reduced to 1.5x way, way back 13:01:39 !lg * elf !elf:3 !recent s=ikiller 13:01:40 quite likely they got hit by the same centaur nerf 13:01:40 3933 games for * (elf !elf:3 !recent): 591x a deep elf knight, 410x a deep elf annihilator, 314x a deep elf master archer, 284x a deep elf demonologist, 198x a deep elf sorcerer, 190x a deep elf blademaster, 174x a deep elf conjurer, 168x, 119x a deep elf fighter, 116x a deep elf summoner, 109x Nikola, 105x a deep elf high priest, 90x a deep elf priest, 86x Aizul, 80x a deep elf mage, 52x a deep e... 13:01:51 !lg * elf !elf:3 cv>=0.11 s=ikiller 13:01:52 1608 games for * (elf !elf:3 cv>=0.11): 174x a deep elf conjurer, 167x a deep elf knight, 124x a deep elf summoner, 81x a deep elf priest, 72x a deep elf demonologist, 67x Nikola, 62x Aizul, 56x a deep elf annihilator, 53x, 52x a deep elf fighter, 49x a deep elf mage, 42x a deep elf sorcerer, 34x Agnes, 32x a deep elf high priest, 31x a deep elf death mage, 31x Azrael, 31x a deep elf blademaster, ... 13:02:04 yeah looks like they were already in decline by 0.11 13:02:17 ??bots 13:02:17 bots[1/3]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Rotatell (CBRO, ^); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? & and others) 13:02:23 were centaurs ever actually fixed yet? 13:02:37 yes, there was this flag thing 13:03:08 the behaviour change was split off from m_archer and then said ranged-damage-boost was handed out 13:03:23 the numbers were... 13:03:26 hmm, is | ok? any better ideas? (for CXC bot) 13:04:04 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:04:10 the numbers are average damage-per-shot (I think) of 13.5 -> 9.5 -> 11.5 13:04:35 in any case, given those stats, i think bumping the damage up is fine 13:05:33 the main reason is when elliptic was talking about elf being caster-focused and then this one ostenably non-caster monster does very little in melee 13:06:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:10 (their spellsets being the orc wizard ones are still sad but I don't have solid enough ideas on that front) 13:10:20 Give them dazzling spray and make them super-nasty? :D 13:11:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:11:26 -!- guppyfry has quit [Client Quit] 13:11:31 deep elf knight (10e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 43-61 | AC/EV: 0/15 | Dam: 21 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(80) | XP: 786 | Sp: dazzling spray (3d12), haste, invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 13:11:31 %??deep elf knight perm_ench:might spells:dazzling_spray.13.wizard;haste.13.wizard;invisibility.13.wizard 13:12:05 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:16 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:12:42 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:15:13 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:16:49 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:17:58 -!- anubisbafoobis has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:18:30 !learn edit servers s/ \(EU\)/, {cxc} (EU)/ 13:18:31 servers[1/1]: See {cao}, {cszo}, {cbro} (US) or {cdo}, {clan}, {cxc} (EU), or {ckr}, {lld} (Asia-Pacific). Also http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto 13:19:40 -!- eliana has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:30 Wonder what old versions I should add to CXC 13:21:15 !kw recent 13:21:16 Keyword: recent => cv>=0.14 13:21:20 in my opinion 13:21:44 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:46 I guess it isn't too much trouble to add more either. But then again no-one will play them... 13:22:45 you should at least provide the latest stable release 13:22:54 Of course :) 13:23:09 provide online crawlternative 13:23:24 ??crawlternative 13:23:25 I don't have a page labeled crawlternative in my learndb. 13:23:32 ??crawl alternative 13:23:33 crawl alternative[1/4]: A very old (pre-Stone-Soup) and apparently abandoned fork of Crawl: http://www.interq.or.jp/libra/oohara/crawl-alternative/ or git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl-ancient.git branch "alternative" 13:23:42 Heh. 13:24:31 4.1 is fun too 13:24:33 some day I will figure out a shop of naniwa vault 13:25:29 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:43 -!- Fusha has quit [] 13:32:47 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:32:47 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:37:47 Literature quotation for Basilisk 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9111 by 4Hooves2Appendages 13:42:33 all hail 13:43:18 -!- Utis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:21 king of the losers! 13:48:15 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:37 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:22 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:27 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:41 the caustic wasp tile is great 14:00:25 i thought it looked kind of... derpy? 14:00:38 (please disregard my opinion on everything) 14:01:42 it seemed blue 14:01:46 or cyan, perhaps 14:01:47 potatolizard: it's just a color-inverted killer bee 14:01:54 ontoclasm will make a better tile at some point 14:01:56 matches the console glyph! 14:02:05 or so the legend goes 14:02:30 Legend Of Ontoclasm: Glorious Tile Making Saga Go!!! 14:02:33 oh, so it is 14:02:35 part 3 14:02:41 .crushed 14:02:42 it looked somehow weird in tiles 14:02:42 65. Witty the Executioner (L23 MiFi of Okawaru), blasted by an octopode crusher (iron shot) on Depths:1 on 2014-10-31 13:48:47, with 452233 points after 62344 turns and 4:23:29. 14:02:48 .crushed -tv 14:02:49 65. Witty, XL23 MiFi, T:62344 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 14:03:15 !lg * kmap~~hangedman|vile max=score ntv=0 14:03:16 5544. Grudge the Conqueror (L27 MiFi of The Shining One), blown up by a Cacodemon on Dis:7 (dis_hangedman) on 2014-03-21 12:58:45, with 1141718 points after 118995 turns and 7:57:50. 14:03:26 !lg * kmap~~hangedman|vile max=score ntv=0 -tv:<4:x1.5 14:03:26 5544. Grudge, XL27 MiFi, T:118995 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 14:07:12 slight overconfidence 14:09:22 why are they called caustic wasps? i get this vague sense that a pun name is possible 14:09:35 i dont have any suggestions. its just this weird intuition, i'm sure you understand 14:09:43 "##crawl-goer" 14:10:27 evilmike: we need an automated enemy naming bot thing 14:10:27 unknown monster: "caustic wasp" 14:10:27 %??caustic wasp 14:10:27 greensnark: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:10:46 how about "green wasp" >_> 14:10:47 speaking of that, can orb spiders be renamed to orb weavers yet? 14:11:02 I guess that would be a nice name 14:11:19 green hornets 14:11:31 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:11:45 evilmike: oh, I was wonder, how long did your evil crypt end take you to make? 14:11:49 *wondering 14:12:10 well, the idea was that yellow and red wasp were going to finally be renamed to something like wasp and hornet >_> 14:12:16 couple hours over a weekend, but i had some ideas floating around for a while 14:12:46 yellow, stinging insect 14:12:50 annoying, red insect 14:14:04 -!- Lprsti99______ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:14:07 "orb weaver" <3 14:14:22 -!- guppyfry has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:16:24 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:38 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:21:08 evilmike: I was actually talking to nrook about orb weavers the other day 14:21:46 I wouldn't mind the change; I do wonder if it'd be overselling the pun? they already 'weave' their orbs in the text... 14:22:26 but the original reasoning for them not being orb weavers seems very shoddy 14:24:01 well, they wound up being called "orb spiders" because of some concern about localization i think 14:24:42 change "weaves" to "conjures" if you think the text is too much, maybe 14:24:43 yeah 14:24:56 rip localization :( 14:25:26 I don't think a minor pun is worth renaming an enemy that has existed for multiple versions, but I don't really care either way and if somebody wants to do rename them I'm not going to argue extensively against it. 14:25:48 i don't know, minor puns are worth a lot 14:26:03 pointlessly renaming enemies is a proud crawl tradition, imo 14:26:05 also, I don't think anyone would be confused by the rename 14:26:14 see: giant bat -> megabat -> bat -> ??? 14:26:16 "what is this 'orb weaver' enemy? what could it be????" 14:26:22 !send evilmike dwarf mountain bats 14:26:23 Sending dwarf mountain bats to evilmike. 14:26:31 !send evilmike gigabats 14:26:32 Sending gigabats to evilmike. 14:29:27 man, if anything deserved a misleading commit title, it would be a commit to bring back dwarf mountain bats 14:29:40 (I do not plan on making this commit, to be clear. just daydreaming) 14:30:56 Bring back Dwarven Hall (vaults for tartarus) 14:31:47 theTower: no you!!! 14:32:07 well yes that is what I'm doing but what is the commit title going to be 14:33:09 'devteam does not actually hate dwarves' 14:34:14 potatolizard: we don't? 14:34:21 you do 14:34:22 that's the joke 14:34:31 i still wish the nostalgia april fools thing left out mountain dwarves 14:34:54 (still keep hill dwarves in it of course) 14:35:47 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:12 "reduce the Dwarven Halls to ruins" 14:36:39 "ruin dwarf" 14:37:50 evilmike: hey, nice :) 14:39:28 this sounds like part of an awesome dwarf fortress game 14:40:26 that, on the other hand, sounds like an oxymoron 14:41:14 lol 14:41:40 evilmike: I'm not aware of any puns in "caustic wasp", but it has a good mouthfeel. People seemed to respond to it better than "acid bees", which was the concept placeholder name. 14:41:52 i dunno, just because all of my dwarf fortress games end in horrible disaster doesn't mean they aren't entertaining 14:42:02 Anyone here who knows server admin stuff? Wondering if I have to manually create rc files for existing users when adding versions 14:44:36 Medar: no you shouldn't have to, but you should ask |amethyst for details if you're running his setup 14:45:36 Hmm, ok. 14:45:58 regarding new corrosion, is it something that players notice if they manage to affect monsters with it? i'm just wondering how it works on monsters, haven't actually seen it 14:46:23 players don't have a lot of ways to apply corrosion 14:46:50 theres yellow drac breath, jiyva, or just enslaving jellies I guess (if you want to be weird) 14:47:03 Oklob farming too 14:47:41 yellow dracs also have the acidic bite aux 14:47:43 vitriol card if it's still in 14:47:47 it is 14:47:48 also, does it stack? 14:48:06 like, I'm wondering if the anti-slaying can actually be noticed if you apply acid a few times 14:48:19 if I remember correctly it only applies one half-ac effect to monsters with armour that only renews duration? 14:48:27 I don't think it stacks on monsters 14:48:30 I can't remember if slaying is even involved 14:48:31 for monsters I *believe* it's only one level, yeah 14:48:36 !source monster.cc 14:48:37 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD 14:49:00 <|amethyst> Medar: you want a script to do that when they play the game 14:49:06 ah 14:49:09 <|amethyst> Medar: I do it in the wrapper script that webtiles executes 14:49:16 if you apply it a few times what are the odds whatever you're applying it on isn't already dead 14:49:28 yeah 14:49:40 yeah, seems to only be the AC thing 14:49:43 looking around 14:49:43 |amethyst: Ok. I'll check. 14:49:43 i guess i've just always liked the idea of a "stacking debuff" that isnt poison (or some other damage over time) 14:49:51 evilmike: new draining!!!! 14:49:52 doesn't draining do that now? 14:49:55 also new malmutate 14:49:59 yeah draining does 14:50:02 didnt think about malmutate 14:50:04 o rly? 14:50:05 <|amethyst> Medar: hm, actually, let me check too 14:50:07 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:08 What's new malmutate do? 14:50:09 well, old malmutate too 14:50:11 <|amethyst> Medar: I might be doing that somewhere else 14:50:19 but who had access to *that*? 14:50:22 player malmutate is from... summoned neqoxecs, summoned cacodemons, 14:50:28 irradiate!!!!!!!! 14:50:31 oh right 14:50:41 (shadow wretched stars, shadow corrupters) 14:50:44 ...how do you get that to stack 14:50:52 ;) 14:51:04 radioactive ghouls once more make a plea 14:51:05 what happens when monsters cast irradiate? I suppose they don't suffer from contamiantion 14:51:05 Lasty_: -4 ac & -10% HD per stack 14:51:11 evilmike: monsters don't at present 14:51:21 what a missed ghost opportunity 14:51:29 I've been holding off on implementing monster irradiate until I decide how to implement it in a way that's not too mean to players 14:51:31 from the dev who made a lot more ghosts place today even 14:51:34 if you want a radioactive monster, it needs to be a plutonium golem 14:52:00 plutonian golem! 14:52:07 -!- alefury has quit [] 14:52:16 |amethyst: It seems to make them when creating an user. 14:52:27 glow elemental 14:52:37 PleasingFungus: does the malmutate stack on every cast of irradiate? 14:53:04 I *think* we ended up making it a coinflip per monster per irradiate, owing to balance concerns?? 14:53:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:53:09 it was originally guaranteed 14:53:31 the malmut from irradiate was mostly intended as a flavor thing anyway, tho. I'd rather balance around damage 14:53:39 Guaranteed seems good -- in console at least, I didn't see the status listed in x, so I had no idea. 14:53:49 it's shown in x 14:53:52 there's no icon 14:53:57 ah 14:54:17 I'd have to find the reasoning for why we didn't make it guaranteed 14:54:29 maybe I didn't think to check x. I assume it doesn't show in the enemies list. It seems like very few statuses do. 14:54:29 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:39 <|amethyst> Medar: hm, yeah, now that I look it seems I only do that in 1. webtiles init_player_program 2. dgamelaunch commands[register] 3. dgamelaunch commands[login] 14:54:46 <|amethyst> Medar: let me test 14:55:25 evilmike: yeah the great tragedy of new draining is that, as soon as I implemented it, GRUNT ruined it forever 14:55:34 (by making MR fixed per-monster type, rather than scaling off HD) 14:55:43 aw 14:56:02 <|amethyst> Medar: hm, it does seem to be getting created at login 14:56:11 Presumably you could still make the drain status decrease monster mr, right? 14:56:19 |amethyst: even webtiles login? 14:56:21 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 14:56:29 <|amethyst> Medar: yes 14:56:30 <|amethyst> Medar: aha 14:56:38 oh wait, now it worked 14:56:44 Lasty_: yeah, there's already a similar special case for base damage 14:56:45 <|amethyst> Medar: webtiles login calls init_player_program 14:56:48 I just haven't implemented it yet because 14:56:52 ~ 14:56:54 haha 14:56:56 also, found the reasoning 14:56:58 23:07:11 but yeah it'd be nice if the chance of malmut was not super duper high 14:57:04 haha 14:57:05 this was before we designed new malmut, tho 14:57:10 btw why does everything in tomb spam draining clouds now 14:57:12 <|amethyst> Medar: you do have to update that script every time you have a new version, though 14:57:16 sorry 14:57:23 i dont like it 14:57:28 isn't it just one monster? 14:57:33 (by ev- yes 14:57:34 its like 3 monsters 14:57:38 well some of it seems to be miasma 14:57:44 miasma is different. 14:57:49 |amethyst: Well, seems to work now. Thanks. 14:58:06 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:58:07 also, I think you're up to two monsters now. 14:58:18 ushabti have draining / miasma catlobe breath, death scarab has pretty miasma trail 14:58:33 fr: name a monster "catlobe" just to make discussing them even more annoying 14:58:41 I think CXC should be all set up now. I have the bot ready to go too. 14:58:41 does the trail achieve much? 14:58:50 it's anti-melee! 14:58:53 miasma was also nerfed to inflict status and not instant rot 14:59:02 What needs to happen to get the results to Sequell etc? 14:59:25 its not so much the power i worry about, i just find cloud effects spammy when they're too common 14:59:28 well, the idea is that three-six fast batty monsters produce enough miasma to surround you and make it harder to move 14:59:55 tangential to this conversation does that mean you hate qaz? :P 15:00:10 oh, right, Lasty_, I was talking with you yesterday about irradiate damage, right? 15:00:16 I remembered why I made it scale hard off power 15:00:28 mixing 2 cloud types in 1 breath is weird too 15:00:43 good weird, or bad weird? 15:00:59 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:01:39 i think its better to stick to one thing 15:02:13 yes, console will have to probably x-v them constantly 15:02:17 well i guess just x 15:02:25 since miasma and draining can look the same 15:02:30 ...? 15:02:30 and you wont know whats on top of you ever 15:02:44 PleasingFungus: yeah, that's right 15:02:50 its more about knowing what you're standing in, recolouring stuff is easy enough 15:03:09 isn't there the fancy cloud status bar thing now 15:03:12 evilmike: webtiles is always open for you... :p 15:03:12 yes 15:03:16 it tells you "youre in a dangerous cloud" 15:03:19 but not what type of cloud 15:03:22 Wait, it's two different clouds? I assumed it was draining on impact plus miasma clouds. 15:03:25 I thought it changes colour? 15:03:31 no, it only colors based on severity 15:03:33 Mixed, similarly-colored clouds does sound like a bad idea 15:03:34 oh 15:03:39 darkgrey for useless or harmless, red for bad 15:03:56 I... will admit I didn't test ushabti in console, and didn't realize that draining clouds were on etc_death 15:03:59 PleasingFungus: Why did you make it scale hard off power? :) 15:04:05 Lasty_: my reasoning was that the *cost* of irradiate's contamination becomes higher as the game goes on (since it's more likely to be competing with e.g. Haste) 15:04:07 accordingly 15:04:16 ah 15:04:28 it seemed to make sense to make it scale hard 15:04:29 let's see, maybe the draining clouds can be on a different colour 15:04:42 youll still have to x yourself to see if youre on miasma or not 15:04:46 why cant it just be pure draining, if theres already a monster that has miasma? 15:04:56 the problem, of course, is that scaling off power isn't exactly scaling off the length of the game; it's also making it much stronger for cj than for tm 15:05:02 which wasn't the intent 15:05:03 I assume no-one minds if I make CXC bot join here and ##crawl? 15:05:04 yeah 15:05:07 the colour isnt the only thing thats awkward 15:05:18 they were designed seperately from there being a monster that has miasma >_> 15:05:27 so? they spawn in the same branch 15:05:30 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:37 well 15:05:38 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:05:57 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:02 It seems to me that only a very small subset of characters will be significantly increasing Irradiate power throughout the game, and very, very few will be using it if they could instead use Hate. 15:06:04 *Haste 15:06:13 I am saying why things are, not why they could be 15:06:23 uh 15:06:38 it seems like a hell of a lot of characters will be increasing irradiate power throughout the game 15:06:49 since it scales off of cj, spc, int........ 15:07:12 ...and bah, ghostly flames are also present from revenants (maybe that's the third draining cloud monster?), which blocks just using those colours 15:07:16 anyway. I'd rather sacrifice late-game/extended viability (for a level 5 spell) than sacrifice its utility to tm 15:07:21 since it scales off of cj, spc, int........ 15:07:23 aka spellpower? 15:07:27 yes! 15:07:30 that is what I am saying 15:07:48 "irradiate" is not a skill you invest in independently; it's something that increases in power alongside everything else 15:07:50 sounds like the ideal chei spell 15:07:51 ok just making sure :P 15:07:53 What I'm getting at is that Tms will be unlikely to seriously pump any of those things, or even Tm past a certain point. 15:07:59 yres 15:08:04 *yes 15:08:12 oh, now I remember something: the tomb subvaults are meant to avoid mixing in the guardian mummy substitutes in the first place 15:08:14 I think we're vigorously agreeing at this point 15:08:16 and communicating poorly 15:08:40 Conjurers will pump conj and int, but after Haste becomes an option or they just have other good conjurations (bolt of foo), they may well abandon irradiate because of its various limitations 15:08:49 you still get some from random floor placements, but it is not necessarily likely you even see the two cloud-using fodder monsters together 15:08:56 But maybe I'm wrong about the utility to conjurers 15:09:05 even if the subvaults are different from each other, imo its still more interesting to have the monsters themselves differentiated from each other 15:09:14 I can see irradiate being a decent late-game panic spell (when the situation is nasty enough that you're willing to eat the contam, even on top of haste) 15:09:22 but that's beside the point 15:09:25 Perhaps so 15:09:26 irradiate should have higher base damage & lower power scaling 15:09:32 +1 15:09:34 and probably the malmut should lose its coinflip 15:09:37 +1 15:09:40 haha 15:09:52 Sounds like we are indeed on the same page. :) 15:09:53 if you want to implement that, feel free; idk how much dev I'm going to be doing for the next few days 15:09:56 for aforementioned reasons 15:10:00 haha, indeed 15:10:02 I'm not fond of the death scarab trail anyway, since they've already got a defining feature in their brand 15:10:19 while ushabti's clouds are the main thing for them 15:10:23 the main idea with that was "wouldn't it be annoying to fight a batty enemy with a miasma trail"? 15:10:25 iirc 15:10:27 !learn add lasty_to_do remove coinflip from irradiate malmutate; bias damage towards low power 15:10:28 lasty to do[4/4]: remove coinflip from irradiate malmutate; bias damage towards low power 15:10:38 to fight three-six batty enemies with a trail at a time 15:10:42 ya 15:11:01 maybe move that idea elsewhere. storm bats 15:11:11 retch bats 15:11:18 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:11:20 fire bats? 15:11:22 I wonder what kind of monster could use thunderclouds effectively 15:11:25 also, we should totally encourage players to run forwards to their deaths in tomb, instead of making it better to move back 15:11:26 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:11:37 mummy sirens 15:11:38 well, they don't make it a good idea to move back 15:11:55 in fact, they make it a pretty bad idea 15:11:55 maybe some kind of storm demon 15:11:58 |amethyst: Is GAME_WEB_MAPPINGS at the end of sizzell.pl used for anything? 15:12:00 since they'll be batting at you vigorously 15:12:13 !send evilmike DEMONS 15:12:14 Sending DEMONS to evilmike. 15:12:28 i guess blizzard demons already cause bad weather 15:12:31 you mean, just like all monsters?? 15:12:45 maybe some other kind of nonliving monster - egolems & lightning spires are very close to being an elec<->nonliving theme 15:12:49 tropical storm demon that casts thunder tornado 15:12:55 hm. it might be interesting in abyss, actually 15:12:57 blizzard demon freezing clouds are pretty ineffectual without their item destruction 15:13:00 !send PleasingFungus guardian robots 15:13:01 Sending guardian robots to PleasingFungus. 15:13:01 since noise is very different there 15:13:11 !send wheals beeps & boops 15:13:12 Sending beeps & boops to wheals. 15:13:16 pleasingfungus: well, there used to be these things called vapours, and 15:13:20 ha! 15:13:27 holiness, hm 15:13:33 vapour (11v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 30-53 | AC/EV: 0/12 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 902 | Sp: b.lightning (3d18) | Sz: little | Int: plant. 15:13:33 %0.10?vapour 15:13:37 * wheals engages his nanotechnological manipulators 15:13:38 yep, nonliving 15:13:51 makes sense; I'd never thought about it 15:14:01 twister (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 0/5 | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 15:14:01 %??twister 15:14:09 similarly, wisps & their well-established affinity for static electricity 15:14:17 :p 15:14:26 should have made raiju nonliving instead of living instead of demonic 15:14:33 I like them being living 15:14:37 they're fun lightning dogs 15:14:38 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:14:39 unknown monster: "caustic wasp" 15:14:39 %??caustic wasp 15:14:39 like pokemon 15:14:54 curse you chei 15:14:54 like mh 15:15:03 -!- Eksell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:09 no corn or slow so it's not wahh 15:15:18 |versions 15:15:22 ...specifically they're like the electric pokemon, raichu 15:15:31 |version 15:15:31 trunk: 0.16-a0-1761-g9575c7c; 0.15: 0.15.2; 0.14: 0.14.2 15:15:37 %git 15:15:37 07reaverb02 * 0.16-a0-1768-g4fe4298: Remove "display_char = space: " from *glyphs.txt files 10(3 hours ago, 3 files, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4fe42985a64e 15:15:48 seven CRITICAL commits behind! 15:15:49 you mean raikou, the actual lightning dog, right >_> 15:15:56 I mean a lot of things. 15:15:59 I saw that space: thing and didn't know what it's for 15:16:03 so I didn't remove it 15:16:04 PleasingFungus: http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/rebuild/ ! 15:16:18 ??rebuild 15:16:18 rebuild[1/2]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:16:34 wheals: oh, opinion on the following: should vault-defined colours of monsters override the player mons_glyph? 15:16:48 sounds like an interface screw 15:16:50 Medar: The site says: "CXC developer account" 15:17:04 how many vaults define monster colours? sprints? 15:17:08 also, walls and floors are already overridable colour-wise if players chose to do that >_> 15:17:18 bat vault comes to mind 15:17:24 i think most of that recolouring stuff was purged 15:17:27 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 15:17:30 my vague concern is that it might actually be important there, since vault colour redefines often (presumably) come along with stat changes..... 15:17:31 theTower: MH_ELDRITCH raiju imo 15:17:33 PleasingFungus: Create an account so I can give you admin rights 15:17:34 sometimes walls and floors are recoloured but thats fine imo 15:17:35 bat vault and very little else 15:17:46 Same goes for anyone else who wants rebuild rights 15:17:46 well we should maybe consider just not allowing it 15:17:55 there was one weird vault with green centaurs 15:17:57 its a wizlab 15:18:00 Medar: Ok, should I register under "reaver" or "reaverb" ? 15:18:00 wizlab_eringya 15:18:07 Medar: It is done. 15:18:14 unknown monster: "cigotuvi's_monster" 15:18:14 %??cigotuvi's_monster 15:18:17 unknown monster: "cigotuvis_monster" 15:18:17 %??cigotuvis_monster 15:18:18 it was removed in the purge and incidentally it was revamped anyway 15:18:21 however that goes 15:18:24 flesh golem (058) | Spd: 7 | HD: 15 | HP: 122-149 | AC/EV: 15/3 | Dam: 35 | 11non-living, 10doors, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 807 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 15:18:24 %??flesh golem 15:18:26 reaverb: Anything goes 15:18:36 flesh draped over an iron skeleton >_> 15:18:38 yeah I mean, that's a base type of what 15:18:43 !source dat/des/portals/wizlab.des 15:18:44 Medar: Ok, I'm reaver on CXC 15:18:44 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des;hb=HEAD 15:18:47 iron golems 15:18:59 unknown monster: "Cigotuvi's_Monster" 15:18:59 %??Cigotuvi's_Monster 15:19:01 the problem is: at inittime we can only know about monster types 15:19:01 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:02 feh 15:19:08 Added you both. 15:19:15 that's how the symbol table and mon_glyph overrides work, by monster type 15:19:27 Medar: ty kindly :) 15:19:40 I hope nobody wants to recolour plain statues 15:19:52 !learn set rebuild[3] http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:19:52 rebuild[3/3]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:20:00 ??rebuild[3 15:20:00 rebuild[3/3]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:20:00 oh right oh no I made 15:20:05 !learn set rebuild[3]http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:20:06 ERROR: Term name exceeds the maximum length of 100 15:20:08 vine covered earth elemental (09E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 6 | HP: 33-57 | AC/EV: 14/4 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 85 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 15:20:08 %??vine covered earth elemental 15:20:09 I guess the safe route is just to use the glyph overrides no matter what 15:20:19 !learn set rebuild[3] http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:20:20 PleasingFungus: Are you the right person to bother about editing CAO wordpress? 15:20:20 rebuild[3/3]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ http://crawl.xtahua.com/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 15:20:34 Executioner (151) | Spd: 20 | HD: 12 | HP: 48-78 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 30, 10, 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2203 | Sp: pain (d14), haste | Sz: Large | Int: high. 15:20:34 %??executioner 15:20:39 Hmm, why is there that line break? 15:21:02 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:09 players overriding iron golems might get confused by seeing a whatever-coloured flesh golem but I guess those are just the breaks 15:21:24 Medar: I don't know anything about cao wordpress - do you mean cdo? 15:21:29 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:33 Oh, yes I do 15:21:51 I have permissions, though no especial expertise. What do you want to edit? 15:21:52 1431 # (also, OCS boss sucks while disint is still binary.) 15:22:31 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:22:48 PleasingFungus: http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto To add CXC (altough, the scores are not in Sequell yet...) 15:23:19 oh, shit, I didn't know this page existed 15:23:22 PleasingFungus: Also the same page could use few tweaks: Only one Webtiles link has target=_blank 15:23:31 that page is great, yeah 15:23:40 someone should add LLD and uh 15:23:43 And that browser version list should be removed. 15:24:21 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:26 Medar: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XVbrupV8 15:24:32 give me a modified version of this & I'll upload it 15:24:50 oh, right. lld and ckr 15:25:06 ...and should clan still be listed? I'm unclear 15:25:11 what is this that 4chan is telling me about caustic wasps? 15:25:12 AFAIK it's coming back. 15:25:20 Taraiph: probably bad things 15:25:23 it is 4chan, after all. 15:25:28 heh, crawl news from 4chan 15:25:51 Medar: is xtahua already official? since sequell already logs the games? 15:26:06 Is there a way to update Chei, or must we wait? 15:26:07 Sequell doesn't log yet. 15:26:13 only |amethyst can update chei 15:26:26 !lm . 15:26:27 2985. [2014-10-29 22:42:28] Tedronai the Cudgeler (L1 VSBe of Trog) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 15:26:30 !lm . x=src 15:26:31 2985. [2014-10-29 22:42:28] [src=cxc] Tedronai the Cudgeler (L1 VSBe of Trog) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 15:26:34 Oh :) 15:26:42 !lg . 15:26:43 437. Medar the Firebug (L1 KoFE), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0 club) on D:1 on 2014-10-28 23:41:17, with 0 points after 36 turns and 0:00:27. 15:26:50 Damn server testing! 15:27:02 now I have to win a vsbe... 15:27:09 Medar: do you want me to announce cxc on the SA thread? 15:27:11 <|amethyst> building chei 15:27:18 huzzah 15:27:32 take it easy, chei 15:27:35 <|amethyst> what am I building chei for? 15:27:39 haha 15:27:40 <|amethyst> err, monster rather 15:27:49 unknown monster: "caustic wasp" 15:27:49 %??caustic wasp 15:27:51 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.16-a0-1671-ge06adc5 15:27:51 <|amethyst> %??-version 15:27:52 <|amethyst> aha 15:27:54 caustic wasps I guess 15:28:08 <|amethyst> I was about to say "I thought I rebuilt for the tomb monsters" 15:28:13 ushabti (078) | Spd: 8 | HD: 7 | HP: 39-52 | AC/EV: 9/6 | Dam: 30 | 11non-living, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 258 | Sp: death rattle (2d4) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 15:28:13 <|amethyst> %??ushabti 15:28:22 PleasingFungus: Would be much appreciated. Mentioning it on CDO post wouldn't hurt either :) 15:28:23 orcish idol (078) | Spd: 8 | HD: 7 | HP: 39-52 | AC/EV: 9/6 | Dam: 30 | 11non-living, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 258 | Sp: death rattle (2d4) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 15:28:23 <|amethyst> %??ushabti name:orcish_idol 15:28:38 -!- Twiggytwiggytwi_ has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 15:28:59 <|amethyst> theTower: any thoughts about making them yellow so they don't pretent to be orcish idols? 15:29:01 mummified orc high priest (05M) | Spd: 8 | HD: 10 | HP: 56-72 | AC/EV: 8/7 | Dam: 30 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1089 | Sp: sum.demon, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:29:01 %??mummy priest name:mummified_orc_high_priest 15:29:09 so from what I am reading in this commit... 15:29:20 [13:24] PleasingFungus Medar: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XVbrupV8 give me a modified version of this & I'll upload it 15:29:32 |amethyst: isn't yellow taken by the sarcophgoignfbl 15:29:42 <|amethyst> oh 15:29:47 a caustic wasp will come in packs of 8-ish, has corrosion, will be about twice as fast as the average character... 15:29:51 sarcophagi 15:29:51 <|amethyst> I wasn't think about vault-redefined statues 15:30:13 there are _probably_ not very many orcish idols in tomb 15:30:13 <|amethyst> maybe orcish idols should be ETC_BEOGH instead 15:30:15 but there are those 15:30:16 they also look like clay golems!!!! 15:30:22 unknown monster: "clay golem" 15:30:22 <|amethyst> %??clay golem 15:30:26 PleasingFungus: Will do, but I meant more like a blog post. Maybe at a start of trunk updates or something... 15:30:30 flesh golem (058) | Spd: 7 | HD: 15 | HP: 122-149 | AC/EV: 15/3 | Dam: 35 | 11non-living, 10doors, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 807 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 15:30:30 %??flesh golem 15:30:33 aw 15:30:42 oh. probably someone should make a post for the three servers that have gone unannounced 15:30:42 is this caustic wasp already in the game? 15:30:46 Taraiph: yes 15:30:53 ._. 15:31:02 That makes sense. Also the Australian one. 15:31:02 it is an experiment, like everything in trunk 15:31:04 "oh no, depths is hard" 15:31:05 so they're like red wasps only worse 15:31:12 they're not very much like red wasps at all. 15:31:14 they aren't much like red wasps 15:31:17 |amethyst: does having player mon_glyph overrides just use that colour over any monster colour in a monspec sound ok to you? 15:31:24 what is their hd? 15:31:26 if red wasps were cyan 15:31:29 so they're like jellies only worse 15:31:38 they are jellies glued to beeeeeeeees 15:31:38 evilmike: iirc 14? one higher than ghost moths? 15:31:41 they're a lot like ghost moths 15:31:50 !tell Wensley New server CXC: http://crawl.xtahua.com/cgi-bin/dgl-status 15:31:50 Medar: OK, I'll let wensley know. 15:31:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: is the player override going to be matching the monster's real name or its fake name? 15:31:55 unknown monster: "caustic wasp" 15:31:55 %??caustic wasp 15:32:06 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:32:10 |amethyst: the real name (in mon-data.h) 15:32:10 in that you can't run from them reliably and unless you have decent damage you're gonna find yourself overwhelmed? 15:32:24 sure you can 15:32:29 because in depths you have survival tools 15:32:29 since we have to do a lookup that way and get the monster type 15:32:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hm... that seems kind of bad, then, but so does the alternative 15:32:34 you don't have those for d3 killer bees 15:32:36 |amethyst: yeah, that's the problem 15:32:36 Taraiph: Have you encounter caustic wasps in-game yet? 15:32:43 Medar: I will write a post about new servers after someone adds them to the list of servers, I think; it'd be a little silly to do it the other way around. 15:32:46 But I will write the post. 15:32:54 yellow wasp (08y) | Spd: 15 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-30 | AC/EV: 5/14 | Dam: 1304(paralyse) | fly | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 126 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 15:32:54 %??yellow wasp 15:33:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: e.g. if you recolour goliath beetle, you're also recolouring the arena sprint orb beetle 15:33:07 maybe the name was a mistake 15:33:12 PleasingFungus: Ok. I'll try to add all of them. Hopefully I can find all the info. 15:33:17 yellow wasp (08y) | Spd: 15 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-30 | AC/EV: 5/14 | Dam: 1304(paralyse) | fly | Res: 06magic(20) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 126 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 15:33:17 %??yellow wasp 15:33:20 err, 15:33:24 Medar: OK. Let me know if I can help! 15:33:26 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 15:33:26 %??caustic wasp 15:33:28 it is faster than a yellow wasp 15:33:34 holy fuck 15:33:36 those things hit hard 15:33:40 you're fucking joking 15:33:44 notably, yellow wasps can paralyse. 15:33:48 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:33:51 not that I'm saying they're more dangerous! 15:34:01 isn't speed 20 a bit much? 15:34:07 same as killer bees 15:34:08 and they can spawn in packs of 8? 15:34:09 these things come in PACKS? 15:34:20 man, I was lukewarm on these guys, but I'm warming to them 15:34:23 sometimes 15:34:23 that's a splat 15:34:33 that's a lot of splats 15:34:37 i'm surprised at their stats. i guess 92 hp is an outlier 15:34:37 evilmike: yes they can come in packs of 8. 15:34:38 I am warming to people overreacting about dangerous depths monsters 15:34:42 <|amethyst> It seems weird (in crawl terms, not real world) to have pack wasps 15:34:45 a pack of these guys is worth as much XP as an OOF. 15:34:48 Also for everyone, if there is a problem with CXC and I'm not around you can try talking to zkyp. He should be on ##crawl 15:34:49 (though those stats are higher than I thought) 15:34:54 ??cxc 15:34:55 cXc[1/2]: Currently experimental server in France: CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM -- ssh port 22, username crawl, uses CAO key (available at http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/crawl/keys/). Webtiles address: http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM 15:34:57 ??cxc[2 15:34:58 cXc[2/2]: Morgues, ttyrecs etc. are at http://CRAWL.XTAHUA.COM/crawl/. Maintained by Medar and zkyp. 15:35:04 ah, ok, you're both mentioned. 15:35:20 !learn add caustic_wasp potatolizard: they are jellies glued to beeeeeeeees 15:35:20 caustic wasp[1/1]: potatolizard: they are jellies glued to beeeeeeeees 15:35:20 the bands are 2 + random2(6) 15:35:34 uh 15:35:35 stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 70-103 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(80), 12drown | XP: 1423 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 15:35:35 %??stone giant 15:35:36 that is 2-7 15:35:39 so, 3-8, even chances for any of those numbers 15:35:46 pleasingfungus: there's still the leader 15:35:46 not 3-8 15:35:50 right 15:35:53 band_size 15:36:03 yeah, their bands can be larger than killer bees 15:36:08 hahaha 15:36:24 are they meant to have 100 mr? 15:36:28 It's true that the wasp name is a bit deceptive, given that they are modeled after and act more like bees. 15:36:29 yes 15:36:30 insect enemeis normally have pretty log magic resist 15:36:32 hrm, are their hp too high? 15:36:34 low* 15:36:36 oh god, these things are harder than stone giants 15:36:37 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 56-88 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:47-84) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1699 | Sp: draining gaze | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 15:36:37 %??ghost moth 15:36:42 I think it's this again 15:36:44 seems a bit high 15:36:49 Taraiph: they can't throw rocks 15:36:56 when you move at speed 20, who needs rocks? 15:37:01 yeah I strongly suspect that these guys are a little too much, but I am willing to kill some players first before nerfing them. 15:37:02 nope, 2 less ac!!! 15:37:03 rename them to caustic murder bees please 15:37:05 Lasty_ at least you can RUN from rocks 15:37:14 can you run from rocks? 15:37:15 you can negate their ranged potential 15:37:15 If caustic wasps need to be nerfed it can be done very easily, I would prefer to see how players react to them first - what PleasingFungus said. 15:37:17 what's that thing to produce population stats 15:37:18 I'd accept "murder bees" :D 15:37:19 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: place_monster increments the band_size set by _choose_band 15:37:22 there is NO running from speed 20 15:37:32 well i personally am fine with testing them at their current stats 15:37:33 they're not exactly dramatically _common_ 15:37:41 !learn add caustic_wasp that's a splat that's a lot of splats 15:37:42 caustic wasp[2/2]: that's a splat that's a lot of splats 15:37:48 We intend for these to be a terrifying top-end depths monster. If they aren't killing people, then something is wrong. 15:37:49 exactly 15:37:56 Taraiph: ?tele, Haste, etc. Depths chars have tons of stuff. 15:37:58 but that's going a bit far 15:37:59 although i'd suspect they could do with less MR, less HP, and less base damage. the HD can stay relatively high 15:38:02 so then how long before PleasingFungus splats to them 15:38:08 if it's not soon, we buff 15:38:11 the reason is say that is because the acid melee would drop your AC a lot 15:38:12 gammafunk: what, me? get to depths? 15:38:13 eh, I give it 2 games 15:38:15 evilmike: try compiling with them and loading up a swarm 15:38:16 which effectively buffs their damage 15:38:23 and then you die faster 15:38:25 !lg . depths s=ikiller 15:38:26 2 games for PleasingFungus (depths): a spriggan air mage, a spriggan defender 15:38:31 dang 15:38:32 sprigganed 15:38:35 in my experience they're not too scary unless you get surrounded and corrosion starts stacking 15:38:35 spriggowned 15:38:43 !lg . depths 15:38:44 No games for gammafunk (depths). 15:38:48 Lasty_: what kind of chars did you test with? 15:38:55 I came close in minmay's vault though 15:39:00 because if that corrosion even stacks SLIGHTLY then you're screwed 15:39:01 !lg gammafunk d level>16 15:39:02 Unknown field: level 15:39:06 !lg gammafunk d lvl>16 15:39:07 34. gammafunk the Convoker (L12 HEIE of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:19 on 2014-02-08 04:21:02, with 26825 points after 10760 turns and 2:03:05. 15:39:10 hold on while I simulate an average character 15:39:14 ........ 15:39:17 !lg gammafunk d lvl>16 s=ikiller 15:39:18 vaults 15:39:18 34 games for gammafunk (d lvl>16): 16x, 3x a centaur warrior, 2x a vampire mosquito, a sphinx, an unseen horror, you, a skeletal warrior, a hill giant, Nikola, a vampire, a lindwurm, a deep elf knight, a dragon, Lyfon's ghost, a large slime creature, an enormous slime creature 15:39:22 couldn't find vaults 15:39:29 those were all straight to vaults runs 15:39:30 PleasingFungus: I tried with a ringmail-armoured character with decent dodging and a +9 greatsword of freezing. 15:39:33 !lg gammafunk hesu 1 15:39:34 1/767. gammafunk the Caller (L1 HESu), slain by a hobgoblin (a +0 club) on D:1 on 2014-06-27 20:54:40, with 2 points after 104 turns and 0:00:48. 15:39:37 Executioner (151) | Spd: 20 | HD: 12 | HP: 53-81 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 30, 10, 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2200 | Sp: pain (d14), haste | Sz: Large | Int: high. 15:39:37 %??executioner 15:39:42 !gamesby gammafunk hesu 15:39:43 gammafunk (hesu) has played 767 games, between 2014-06-27 20:53:52 and 2014-10-31 06:45:44, won 0, high score 661808, total score 3839695, total turns 1707132, play-time/day 1:53:12, total time 9d+23:37:47. 15:39:48 total time 10 days 15:39:53 ten days of high elf summoners 15:39:57 not even two weeks 15:40:02 ha! 15:40:03 !hs * place=d:1 15:40:05 1033715. gammafunk the Demonologist (L27 HEIE of Sif Muna), quit the game on D:1 on 2014-02-22 20:26:26, with 941018 points after 49424 turns and 12:08:34. 15:40:06 for that test character, single bees were pretty easy w/o any god or buffs 15:40:08 oh right HEIE 15:40:28 !lg gammafunk god!="" !sif 15:40:28 and packs of them would tear the character apart if it didn't respond appropriately. 15:40:29 274. gammafunk the Conjurer (L8 TeIE of Vehumet), quit the game on D:7 on 2014-09-01 21:45:50, with 1593 points after 2739 turns and 0:28:19. 15:40:32 something I will note is that acid doesn't apply easily and it gets less likely with stacks: outside of this monster, corrosion is not "much of a deal" 15:40:32 Lasty_: yeah less defensive chars better have good AOE for these 15:40:54 what characters get to the depths most often? 15:40:55 otherwise it's lights out Real Fast 15:41:03 i'm not really worried about acid stacking 15:41:09 Taraiph: mibe, I expect :) 15:41:11 gammafunk: If you're playing a low-defense character w/o AOE, you made some huge mistakes. 15:41:15 !lg * br.enter=Depths x=xl(avg) 15:41:15 kk 15:41:16 Unknown function: xl 15:41:18 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=depths s=char 15:41:19 19451 milestones for * (br.enter=depths): 1082x MiFi, 870x GrFi, 812x MiBe, 430x GrBe, 408x SpEn, 402x FoFi, 398x HOFi, 339x DECj, 271x DEFE, 257x TrMo, 249x MiGl, 238x DsFi, 219x CeHu, 212x GrEE, 203x OgHu, 191x VpEn, 179x DsGl, 178x GrGl, 173x VSBe, 171x VSMo, 168x DDFi, 167x OgBe, 162x DDBe, 155x DsBe, 148x DsMo, 145x MfGl, 141x LOFi, 136x SpAs, 133x DEWz, 127x VSFi, 126x KoBe, 124x DrTm, 122x ... 15:41:20 but like, 14 hd and 35ish base damage is pretty respectible 15:41:20 Lasty_: stabbers!!!!!! 15:41:22 !lg * br.enter=Depths x=level(avg) 15:41:23 Unknown function: level 15:41:26 argh 15:41:27 Lasty_: you nerfed Yermak! 15:41:29 ...wait 15:41:30 does acid trip spawn wasps now? 15:41:31 wow that's unsurprising 15:41:35 !lm * br.enter=Depths x=level(avg) 15:41:36 Unknown function: level 15:41:40 !lm * br.enter=Depths x=xl(avg) 15:41:40 Unknown function: xl 15:41:45 gammafunk: stabbers should be good at managing packs of these 15:41:47 johnny0: afaik no vaults have been changed yet 15:41:51 I give up, I suck at sequell syntax 15:42:01 yeah if they don't have great mr 15:42:02 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=Depths x=avg(xl) 15:42:03 19452 milestones for * (br.enter=Depths): avg(xl)=19.56 15:42:06 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 15:42:06 %??caustic_wasp 15:42:07 100 MR can be beaten with Enslave by depths 15:42:09 all that balance talk is just my hunch anyway, i havent fought these monsters yet 15:42:14 but 100 mr is weird imo 15:42:20 death yak (08Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 30 | Res: 06magic(100) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 872 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 15:42:20 %??death_yak 15:42:23 aside from moths, it just goes against most insect enemies 15:42:25 oh uh 15:42:29 they're death yaks 15:42:30 yeah, I'd be fine with turning mr/hd down 15:42:33 or "bug" enemies i suppose 15:42:36 not for balance reasons 15:42:36 death bees 15:42:40 but for player intuition reasons 15:42:42 acid death bees 15:42:44 speed 20 death yaks 15:42:45 to me its more a consistency thing yeah 15:42:48 <|amethyst> gammafunk: double-speed death yaks with more damage 15:42:55 and 10 more ev 15:43:01 <|amethyst> and a couple of resists 15:43:01 |amethyst: and a lot more ev 15:43:08 Death yaks in depths are pretty much popcorn, so they better be scarier than death yaks 15:43:10 ha, rf+ rc+? 15:43:11 <|amethyst> oh, I was reading that as 10/8 15:43:11 can you activate debug mode on webtiles? 15:43:12 you are a cruel person, lasty 15:43:15 PleasingFungus: yes 15:43:16 I've been trying to but it can't 15:43:23 Taraiph: only devs with admin access 15:43:24 can do that 15:43:28 I see 15:43:30 <|amethyst> Taraiph: your own webtiles or one of the servers? 15:43:31 if you mean cszo 15:43:32 though still neutral to poison and elec 15:43:32 alright then 15:43:40 and negative energy 15:43:58 wait. hm. 15:44:00 unknown monster: "corrosive asp" 15:44:00 %??corrosive asp 15:44:02 unknown monster: "corrosive wasp" 15:44:02 %??corrosive wasp 15:44:07 <|amethyst> yeah, the public servers don't allow wizmode except for devs/admins; but I've been considering enabling turn-0 wizmode 15:44:11 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 15:44:11 %??caustic wasp 15:44:11 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 15:44:11 %??caustic wasp 15:44:11 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 56-88 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:47-84) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1699 | Sp: draining gaze | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 15:44:11 %?? ghost moth 15:44:15 moth of wrath (04y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 9 | HP: 37-62 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 2505(rage) | fly | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 499 | Sp: berserk other | Sz: small | Int: insect. 15:44:15 %?? moth of wrath 15:44:16 uh 15:44:18 lasty 15:44:19 you forgot a resist 15:44:22 clearly these should be the top-tier summon from Foxfire 15:44:30 PleasingFungus: which one? 15:44:35 jelly (04J) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 13-21 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 308(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(10), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 42 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 15:44:35 %??jelly 15:44:37 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:38 these things have 100 magic resist? 15:44:50 probably rAcid+ would be good :) 15:44:53 They aren't meant to resist acid 15:44:56 ! 15:44:57 they aren't jellies 15:45:01 aight 15:45:02 they just have acidic stingers 15:45:03 <|amethyst> what about rPois- 15:45:12 ghost moth (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 56-88 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:47-84) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 1699 | Sp: draining gaze | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 15:45:12 %?? ghost moth 15:45:12 <|amethyst> like most other insects 15:45:21 ghost moths and emperor scorpions have rPois+ 15:45:25 as a top-tier insect thing 15:45:37 yeah and they're not rpois, so that seems fine 15:45:39 |amethyst: I considered rPois-, but that seemed like a bit too bit of a vulnerability for something that's meant to be this scary 15:45:40 idk where caustic wasps should fall; do we want them to have a huge achilles' heel? 15:45:43 pcloud woul do well on them 15:45:55 it would do decently even now 15:45:58 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46:03 bug spray 15:46:05 even without rPois- 15:46:11 PleasingFungus: 2slo 15:46:17 I'm okay with pcloud being a reasonable thing to use 15:46:23 compiling, compiling, 15:46:32 the rod of iron would also be pretty decent, I suspect. 15:46:32 I'm also okay w/ lightning bolt/chain lightning being an option 15:46:41 lightning bolt sounds like a very bad tool 15:46:47 Lasty_: these could potentially be a nice thing in significantly smaller numbers for spider end vaults 15:46:51 But I pity the person who tries to fight them with tornado! 15:46:56 gammafunk: I'm open to that 15:46:57 cbl 15:46:59 uh 15:47:04 gammafunk: probably max 1 15:47:14 even one of these is pretty damn lethal in spider 15:47:14 1 for each placement, I'd say 15:47:15 right now as it stands I think that Caustic wasps could be up there with OOF in terms of infamy if these stats stay the same 15:47:27 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:47:30 especially if they are as early as spider 15:47:34 oh god no 15:47:36 not spider 15:47:38 potatolizard is right: even a single one would be very, very strong in spider:5 15:47:49 having one for each placement is absolute death 15:47:52 as opposed to, what, haste air mage infamy? titan infamy? 15:47:57 individuals are... somewhat stronger than ghost moths 15:48:00 no I mean don't ever place them with a band 15:48:07 PleasingFungus> idk where caustic wasps should fall; do we want them to have a huge achilles' heel? 15:48:08 but I don't think it has to be "only one ever" 15:48:15 if they have low MR like other bugs, i think its a decent weakeness 15:48:19 individual caustic wasps in spider would be OOD monsters 15:48:20 they don't 15:48:22 Hey, someone died to a caustic wasp! 15:48:30 !lg * killer=~caustic x=dam 15:48:32 1. [dam=24] Shard1697 the Executioner (L27 HOSk of Ashenzari), mangled by a caustic wasp on Zot:3 on 2014-10-31 20:36:58, with 665186 points after 89906 turns and 5:01:39. 15:48:33 Lasty_: In zot (??) 15:48:35 heh 15:48:36 <|amethyst> Lasty_: but putting 8 of them in a vault on D:10 isn't? 15:48:37 Is LLD webtiles only? 15:48:41 How'd it get into Zot? 15:48:42 Medar: I think so 15:48:45 -!- Taraiph was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [Taraiph] 15:48:46 of course, we do need more OOD monsters for non-D branches 15:48:48 a pack spawned in zot 15:48:49 ouch 15:48:50 that is how 15:48:53 -!- Taraiph has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:53 |amethyst: is that possible? 15:48:57 it was getting on my nerves 15:49:00 <|amethyst> Lasty_: they have depth 21-30 in D 15:49:00 I cannot stand it anymore. 15:49:02 !tv * killer=~caustic x=dam 15:49:04 1. Shard1697, XL27 HOSk, T:89906 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 15:49:05 Sorry for overreaction. 15:49:09 hi dpeg 15:49:12 Hi! 15:49:17 cannot stand what?! 15:49:19 |amethyst: is it possible to spawn a depth 21-30 on d10? 15:49:24 <|amethyst> Lasty_: so an '8' in a D:10 vault would do it 15:49:25 all this preemptive whining 15:49:28 ya 15:49:28 hi dpeg i had a color comment and now i forget what it was 15:49:29 Lasty_: yeah, an 8 15:49:33 ...what. 15:49:34 <|amethyst> '8' is (depth + 2) * 2 15:49:34 |amethyst: an 8 will only spawn 1 bee 15:49:43 if you've died to a new feature, especially unfairly so, go on and complain 15:50:01 I died to a bat once 15:50:03 wow, I would definitely draw a line at even individual caustic bees for D oods 15:50:06 Anyone have an opinion whether I should add more target=_blank or remove the ones that exist? 15:50:08 but all this "it's so bad, won't work" in advance... I cannot read it anymore 15:50:15 heh, he decided to tab an entire pack at once 15:50:20 and then used tele -> ctele 15:50:26 yeah I am okay with that death 15:50:38 dpeg: I felt they'd be a nice depths addition fromw when Lasty_ proposed them 15:50:40 I like how they're just a clean, simple design 15:50:45 no weird gimmicks 15:51:01 PleasingFungus: awesome. That's the perfect caustic wasp death. What was his -corr? 15:51:06 -3 15:51:07 <|amethyst> Lasty_: oh, you have to specifically say 'band' in a vault? 15:51:08 wasn't very high, actually 15:51:13 ie one level 15:51:14 is it meant to spawn in zot? 15:51:16 <|amethyst> Lasty_: I see 15:51:19 he kept taking 20s-30s per turn 15:51:21 they seem really out of place in zot 15:51:22 ...didn't we have a discussion over this 15:51:23 |amethyst: yeah, theTower taught me that just today 15:51:23 then all of sudden BAM 66 15:51:37 gammafunk: I think so too. 15:51:37 evilmike: no 15:51:42 aha 15:51:49 Lasty_: ? 15:51:54 <|amethyst> Lasty_: so why are they in pop_zot then? 15:51:54 evilmike: it was added to zot mon-place, yeah. I don't feel strongly about it being there 15:52:04 s/it/them 15:52:06 We can obviously rename (if 'xxx bee' is better) and change stats if necessary. We shouldn't have have to point this out in ##crawl-dev anymore. 15:52:07 |amethyst: they are? Maybe I did that and then forgot. :p 15:52:14 I died to rats 15:52:18 i dont think zot should overlap with depths for regular monster spawning 15:52:19 I thought I added them to D,V,U 15:52:21 fr: xxx bee 15:52:25 right now I *think* it has an entirely unique monster list 15:52:32 except for dragons 15:52:33 tentacled atrocities 15:52:42 used to share bones 15:52:48 potatolizard: how many wasps were on him at the same time? 15:52:51 <|amethyst> Lasty_: they're in zot and not in vaults 15:52:56 the pack had at least 5 or 6 15:53:03 3 were hitting him at the same time 15:53:04 |amethyst: ah, oops. My mistake. Or forgetfulness. I forget which. 15:53:17 !log shard1697 15:53:18 1790. Shard1697, XL27 HOSk, T:89906: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Shard1697/morgue-Shard1697-20141031-203658.txt 15:53:21 putting them in Vaults seems... hm 15:53:23 maybe v:5 15:53:25 reading bedtime stories to children, back later (hopefully chilled down a bit) 15:53:26 I could see vaults placing single wasps, but then again we could just keep them depths+ or just depths 15:53:26 evilmike: Zot has a lot of monsters shared with other branches, (tentacled monstrocities, ghost moths, moths of wrath, ancient liches, etc.) 15:53:30 They were a very rare spawn in vaults, pf 15:53:37 I'll remove it from Zot when I get home 15:53:44 reaverb: arent the liches just zot:5? 15:53:46 dpeg: I guess it's not halloween for you. retroactively spook the children real good!!! 15:53:56 Will do! 15:53:58 evilmike: Oh, maybe they are. 15:54:12 Lasty_: also lower the mr/hd imho (hp I don't care about) 15:54:15 these wasps just strike me as a potentially "iconic" monster for the depths branch 15:54:31 so if they show up in zot, which comes right after, it might not be as cool 15:54:32 PleasingFungus: how far down do you want the mr/hd to be? 15:54:44 fair question 15:54:46 <|amethyst> evilmike: ancient liches are also in crypt, Vaults OOD, geh, coc, tar, depths OOD 15:54:48 you can technically get a caustic wasp band on d:15 in an encompass vault, all other 8 bands are in depths itself 15:54:53 hrm, why lower their mr/hd? 15:54:57 emperor scorpion (15s) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 104-134 | AC/EV: 20/12 | Dam: 3008(poison:28-56), 1509(claw), 1509(claw) | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1626 | Sz: Giant | Int: insect. 15:54:57 %??emperor scorpion 15:55:00 Lasty_: I'll remove caustic wasps from zot for you if you want. 15:55:12 <|amethyst> theTower: no 8 glypths vaults in D? 15:55:14 ancient liches in geh / coc are a technicality 15:55:15 <|amethyst> s/pth/phs/ 15:55:21 |amethyst: 8 _band_ 15:55:22 i guess emperor scorpions are the strongest insect/arachnid aside from the wasps 15:55:23 gammafunk: it feels odd for little wasps to have huge mr 15:55:24 reaverb: thanks 15:55:29 <|amethyst> oh 15:55:32 <|amethyst> I see 15:55:34 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/LemureSmall.png 15:55:36 er 15:55:44 so like 50 mr might be appropriate? 15:55:44 emperor scorpions are also the only thing in spider not faster than you :b 15:55:44 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/unborn3.png 15:55:47 i keep forgetting about my manual URL fuckery 15:55:47 hrm, well it's not really a "size" thing per se, I think it's more about gameplay tbh 15:55:48 reaverb: how would you feel about adding them as a rare V spawn, not on V1? 15:55:48 (apart from the occasional worm/goliath beetle/whatever 15:55:49 Lasty_: Sure. 15:55:57 surely the same as emperors at 60, no less 15:56:03 <|amethyst> theTower: with my screen width it had a line break after "8" so my eyes skipped the word "band" altogether 15:56:14 Lasty_: I think I'll wait for initial feedback on depths wasps. 15:56:27 Isn't V normally done before U? 15:56:32 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 15:56:38 evilmike: I forget if we still have monsters with 50 mr 15:56:40 anyway, the rationale for lowering it is that that class of monsters tends to have low MR, relative to their threat level 15:56:41 or only 40/60 15:56:41 reaverb: yes 15:56:44 how do you mean "done" 15:56:56 entered? yes 15:57:01 PleasingFungus: ah, I suppose 60 is better than 50 in that case 15:57:08 !source mon-data.h 15:57:09 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-data.h;hb=HEAD 15:57:21 with 50 MR, even a no-evo wand user has a reasonable chance of enslaving them 15:57:27 I feel like that's too little MR 15:57:31 <|amethyst> U is enterable before V, whether that's a good idea to do or not 15:57:44 yeah, looks like only 60 MR 15:57:56 *only 40/60 15:58:03 do we do 80 mr? 15:58:22 I'm fine with hexers being capable of hexing down caustic wasps, but I'd be sad if all players could 15:58:23 i dunno, at 60, it would normally take a couple of attempts to enslave, right? 15:58:25 we do 40/60/80/100... we do 10s at some point 15:58:32 thats a few turns spent not killing it 15:58:50 hrm, how well does ?fear work at 60 15:58:50 PleasingFungus: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=KXZvcmtB 15:58:59 0/10/20/40... 15:59:01 does anyone even use enslavement at 0 evoc at those depths? 15:59:14 PleasingFungus: Feel free to decapitilize XTAHUA address, probably looks pretty dumb :P 15:59:24 no >:c 15:59:43 DONT TOUCH XTAHUA 15:59:47 (sorry) 15:59:48 Medar: very nice, thanks! 15:59:49 It seems like we're starting with numbers and working backwards from there, but I'd rather go the opposite way: how little should you be able to invest into hexes/Evo and still enslave/fear bees? 15:59:52 er wasps 16:00:14 My feeling is that it should be relatively hard to hex down wasps, or else they become much less scary 16:00:42 and I would assert that ?fear should scatter between 50% and 75% of a pack. 16:00:57 yeah fear is probably the thing I'd be concerned about most 16:00:57 I am not convinced that many non-hex-focused characters use hexes 16:01:03 i dont really mind even if it works at 0 evoc, as long as its going to take a few charges 16:01:06 Lots of characters use hex wands 16:01:10 in depths? 16:01:15 dedicated hexers have hexes strong enough to overcome 100 mr probbaly 16:01:27 yeah. Draconians have bad MR 16:01:32 draconian (07d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 53-74 | AC/EV: 10/11 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 522 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:01:32 %??draconian 16:01:37 gammafunk: exactly. And they should be able to do their thing. 16:01:37 yikes 16:01:38 I don't know that I've seen anyone using /enslave in Depths 16:01:43 no, that's not a monster 16:01:46 unknown monster: "base draconian" 16:01:46 %??base draconian 16:01:49 ... 16:01:52 red draconian (04d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 84-112 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire | XP: 1237 | Sp: fire breath (3d18) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:01:52 %??red draconian 16:01:52 purple draconian (06d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 84-112 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(140) | XP: 1240 | Sp: b.quicksilver (3d20) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:01:52 %??purple draconian 16:01:57 heh 16:02:00 purple, oops 16:02:10 note also that draconians are not really depths monsters :) 16:02:13 fr playr purple drac gets 12mr/xl 16:02:14 white draconian zealot (09q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 72-88 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1613 | Sp: cold breath (3d20), sum.demon, hellfire burst (3d15), smiting (7-17), animate dead, minor healing (2d8) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:02:14 %?? white draconian zealot 16:02:20 *player 16:02:29 potatolizard: 10, clearly! 16:02:32 :p 16:02:36 they're depths:5 monsters, not depths:1-4 monsters 16:02:36 !learn edit bots s/;/, Eksell (CXC, |);/ 16:02:37 Use: !learn edit bots[NUM] s/// 16:02:44 !learn edit bots[1] s/;/, Eksell (CXC, |);/ 16:02:45 bots[1/3]: Bots that can be pm'd: announcement bots: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Rotatell (CBRO, ^), Eksell (CXC, |); others: Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! ?? & and others) 16:02:49 rip depths 6 :( 16:02:50 rip 16:02:56 eksell = excel? 16:02:59 tbh I'm not sure how hard it is for someone with like, what 12 hexes to hex an mr 100 thing 16:03:07 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:03:08 My feeling is that everyone (including hexers) should be able to use their primary attacks on caustic wasps, but that doing so may not always be strong enough to avoid stronger measures. 16:03:11 depends on int, probably 16:03:28 you can always just... enslave non-wasp things to splat against the wasps 16:03:28 well most hex users don't go massive int 16:03:31 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:35 so int won't be a terribly imporant factor 16:03:36 theTower: I'm happy with that 16:03:43 simmarine: XL 16:03:46 well, there's a big difference between tren and deen 16:03:50 the two primary en races 16:03:52 ah 16:03:52 as everyone knows 16:03:55 :p 16:04:11 I know that a MiBe may have a hard time 16:04:17 good 16:04:19 Anyway, heading home. I'll check back to see what you all decide about MR, but maybe 80 is a reasonable compromise? 16:04:24 mibe are big hexes users, it's true 16:04:25 do you know how little gives mibe a hard time 16:04:27 yeah, 100 mr is definitely not a huge issue for strong hexers (last time i played them, anyway) 16:04:27 i really dont expect 100 -> 60 mr would make them significantly less deadly 16:04:29 Medar: btw, the allcaps looks very nice on the actual page 16:04:31 classy 16:04:47 Haha, awesome 16:04:54 yeah, 60 mr is still at the point that makes me think "not worth hexing unless you are a dedicated hexmaster". 16:05:12 hexmaster/mistress 16:05:15 tbh even fear will be of limited effect at speed 20, but fearing the entire pack versus fearing half will still be a significant difference 16:05:16 ty 16:05:21 shock serpent (12S) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 43-67 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 2011(elec:10-14) | cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 11elec+++ | XP: 825 | Sp: b.electrical (3d13) | Sz: Medium | Int: reptile. 16:05:21 %?? shock serpent 16:05:22 60 mr would basically make a few tactics stronger than they are now, but they'd still have reasonable defenses (as far as i know, wands will work at 0 evoc but not too reliably) 16:05:36 keep in mind, if you are wasting wand charges, you'd probably eb better off just dealing damage 16:05:55 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1769-g4786619: Remove caustic wasps from Zot (Lasty) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=47866190a1cd 16:05:59 10 evoc is what I get for shock serpents, anything higher than that I won't even try 16:05:59 obviously need to think of even more mr checks 16:06:05 how well does phantom mirror work again caustic wasps 16:06:05 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:36 er, you mean pain mirror? 16:06:50 nope 16:07:08 how well does the shard works against them 16:07:11 these are questions 16:07:27 -!- fevertrip has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:07:29 the shard is still the tome with another name 16:08:16 fearing an entire pack of murder bees sounds like a good reason to carry fear scrolls around past vaults 16:08:25 why wouldn't you do that anyway 16:08:39 ?fear has pretty decent spellpower and works just about anywhere 16:08:50 the phantom mirror is still a mountain dwarf with another name 16:09:34 i guess it's okay if you read teleport and then fear but it's not quite as good as it is earlier in the game 16:09:51 it makes less things attempt to kill you 16:09:55 that is quite good generally 16:10:10 well, sometimes people like getting killed 16:10:25 at least it seems that way on footv 16:11:05 does the web interface for it work again? 16:11:11 don't think so 16:11:13 i liked being able to just click the links from bots :( 16:11:26 !lg * ikiller=caustic_wasp -tv 16:11:27 eh? it works fine for me 16:11:28 1. Shard1697, XL27 HOSk, T:89906 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 16:11:31 evilmike: It works for me, and it wasn't working before. 16:11:35 nope 16:11:36 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:11:42 ah yeah it works again 16:11:45 it wasnt the last couple times i tried 16:11:47 uh, it didn't for me 16:11:53 oh it's off and on! 16:11:56 it didn't initially 16:12:01 then I refreshed and it did 16:12:55 so I guess the answer is click and maybe refresh until it works 16:13:28 -!- iokk has quit [Client Quit] 16:13:40 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:04 fr: bring back hive now, except with wasps and moths instead of bees, and instead of royal jelly there's more wasps 16:14:28 +1 16:14:44 Paper walls 16:14:46 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 16:14:51 four floors of wasps and moths and bees 16:16:19 you have to kill the queen caustic wasp 16:16:41 dont forget to have fountains on hive:4 that sometimes have krakens in them 16:16:46 paper walls sound good 16:16:48 nice 16:16:52 don't you mean wellsprings 16:17:20 and since this is an obvious aliens reference you have to rescue a giant newt in the wasp queen's chamber 16:18:07 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:25 you can't have obvious alien references without facehuggers 16:18:33 I suppose if caustics stay I can make the D/Lair hive-end adaptation vault project also have depths and those guys 16:19:27 potatolizard: I guess a vampiric leech vault define that's speed 30 16:19:44 but there's only haste and swift 16:19:51 only if it wields the axe of woe 16:19:58 what kind of wimpy facehugger doesn't instantly kill you 16:20:00 why are acid bees rf/rc 16:20:06 to prevent cloud use? 16:20:15 they're not rpois 16:20:27 ok so "just because"? 16:20:28 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:20:45 tabstorm: the chitin is very thick on these 16:20:54 i see 16:21:02 they keep themselves warm with the acid 16:21:16 "...concentrated acid for blood" 16:21:18 ok so there's not really a reason other than making them stronger 16:21:28 wasn't sure if it was specifically to make sure you can't use lamps or fcloud 16:21:28 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 16:21:28 %??caustic wasp 16:21:42 emperor scorpion (15s) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 104-134 | AC/EV: 20/12 | Dam: 3008(poison:28-56), 1509(claw), 1509(claw) | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1626 | Sz: Giant | Int: insect. 16:21:42 %??emperor_scorpion 16:21:42 poison is gonna take a while to get through that 62-92 hp 16:21:46 yee 16:22:15 deep elf blademaster (11e) | Spd: 15 | HD: 16 | HP: 94-113 | AC/EV: 0/25 | Dam: 25, 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, two-weapon, fighter | Res: 06magic(120) | XP: 2581 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:22:15 %?? deep elf blademaster 16:22:24 it definitely takes a while to kill these 16:22:53 ...heh, no fighter tag 16:23:13 no fighter tag on what? 16:23:28 the wasp 16:24:06 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:24:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:30 -!- iokk has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:56 -!- Seraphtheol has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:35 mm, anubis guard from a glowing shapeshifter 16:29:51 wow those wasps have a lot of hp 16:31:02 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:35:07 -!- zxc232 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:41 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:44:49 -!- Wah has quit [Quit: IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT'S BACON!] 16:46:56 -!- CrawlOffline|Jho has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 16:51:23 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:52:06 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:53 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:55:03 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:58:41 -!- namad7 has quit [] 16:59:06 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 17:02:00 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:24 |amethyst: did you have a final opinion on the current approach I'm using of just having player overrides take precedence over vault-defined colours? 17:05:10 I was thinking about it, and one point of a vault-defined colour is to communicate to the player that this monster is different somehow from the ordinary monster of this genus, although you could argue that a monster name is sufficient for that 17:05:19 <|amethyst> gammafunk: that was my thought 17:05:29 that the name is enough? 17:05:45 <|amethyst> err 17:05:48 or the first part, and hence we need to respect that somehow 17:05:53 <|amethyst> the first part 17:06:03 <|amethyst> but the problem is that if you're moving things around, they might now look like something else 17:06:50 <|amethyst> I guess in an ideal world, if the lookups every redraw aren't too much of a burden, we'd allow specifying the overrides by monster name 17:06:54 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:57 <|amethyst> actual name I mean 17:07:13 yeah but that doesn't work well with checking the sanity of the overrides 17:08:18 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:00 <|amethyst> I'd say to let vault overrides work for now 17:11:24 ok, I think a monster prop should be fine for indicating this 17:11:33 we do this for e.g. tile overrides already 17:11:40 <|amethyst> yeah 17:11:47 I can set it for mspecs that have a specified colour 17:12:01 and check it in monster::colour() 17:12:34 it'd just be a bool, and I'll still store the colour in _colour 17:12:36 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:12:39 -!- mineral is now known as read 17:12:41 <|amethyst> hm 17:12:44 <|amethyst> what is _colour for? 17:12:51 <|amethyst> I mean, what does it store 17:13:03 it's an int as before 17:13:20 a private int of the colour, which is usually COLOUR_INHERIT (-1) 17:13:24 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: when is it not COLOUR_INHERIT ? 17:13:43 well there are a few things that will change it 17:13:45 -!- fevertrip has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:13:50 ghost demons 17:14:00 ugly things and dancing weapons specifically 17:14:08 as well as active ballistos 17:14:11 <|amethyst> hm 17:14:13 and hyperballistos 17:14:23 <|amethyst> so 17:14:29 maybe some others? 17:14:31 <|amethyst> it seems like you don't need the prop then 17:14:42 <|amethyst> just use whether _colour is not -1 17:15:05 <|amethyst> since recolouring all ugly things to red seems not-helpful either 17:15:09 also yred enslaved souls 17:15:32 oh and butterflies 17:15:37 <|amethyst> likewise a player recolouring ballistomycetes doesn't mean "I don't want to know the difference between ballistos and active ballistos" 17:15:55 yeah but what I don't want is to code in all these exceptions 17:16:03 to what you can't redefine 17:16:09 right now you can redefine those things 17:16:24 <|amethyst> and if you do, ugly things appear the same colour? 17:16:25 I mean if a player wants all white butterflies or something 17:16:29 yes 17:16:40 and that's fine, because the gameplay colour is in ghost 17:16:45 _colour is only ever for display 17:16:58 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:25 yeah pan lords also are assigned random colours upon creation most of the time, otherwise it's etc_random now 17:17:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hm 17:17:44 let me just pastebin my patch for you 17:17:48 so I'm not being confusing 17:17:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: currently if I do mon_glyph = ugly thing : X red 17:18:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: then ugly things are X but their real colour, not red 17:18:20 yeah, with this change, they'll all be whatever colour you assign in the override 17:18:23 I tested and it works 17:18:27 <|amethyst> hm 17:18:35 the internal ghost colour is what's used for their attributes 17:18:38 I don't change that 17:18:52 The solution: monster CSS 17:18:53 <|amethyst> then might as well have player overrides affect vault monsters too, I think 17:18:58 and in fact their _colour is also unchanged, it's just I short-circuti it with the override 17:19:29 yeah that would be a simpler approach 17:19:47 the monster name is at least changed 17:19:53 well, assuming it's not a very bad mon spec 17:20:01 that doesn't override name 17:20:06 <|amethyst> gammafunk: you have to xv though 17:20:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: to tell the difference between a white ugly thing and a red ugly thing 17:20:27 yeah 17:20:38 and just the monster list 17:21:39 ok, so I'll let mon_glyph just take precedence, if they're some complaining we can just add a prop when doing vault defines to indicate that a vault override occured and to use _colour 17:21:45 which monster::colour() can check 17:21:51 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:22:01 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hm, does just overriding the glyph keep the real colour? 17:22:14 I hope it does 17:22:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk: if I do mon_glyph = ugly thing : X for example 17:22:32 <|amethyst> I still feel bad about ballistomycetes though 17:22:46 <|amethyst> ugly things, if you say they should be the same colour you deserve what you get 17:22:59 <|amethyst> but there's no way to say "only recolour non-active ballistos" 17:23:36 yeah they're of the same genus 17:23:43 it'd have to be a special case for the syntax 17:23:45 <|amethyst> they're the same monster type 17:23:49 <|amethyst> not just genus 17:23:52 right ok monster type 17:24:01 <|amethyst> and 0.14_monster_glyphs does mon_glyph += ballistomycete : magenta f 17:24:11 <|amethyst> probably that should be changed to remove the 'magenta' 17:24:54 <|amethyst> so that we don't force non-distinction on people who use that file 17:25:01 er, doh 17:25:16 the override works but causes ugly things to read "red ugly thing" 17:25:35 all the monster info is fine, of course 17:25:59 -!- M1zzu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:26:27 just need to find lookup in the name code andmake it use colour(inherit = true) though 17:26:47 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I thought monster_info didn't have that method 17:27:04 oh, it's coming from monster_info? 17:27:06 <|amethyst> !source monster_info::_core_name 17:27:07 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-info.cc;hb=HEAD#l831 17:27:07 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:27:17 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes, any public information about a monster comes from monster_info 17:27:30 ah 17:27:37 hrm 17:27:37 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 17:27:43 <|amethyst> that's what monster_info is, "the public parts" of monster 17:28:06 and the problem is that I guess monster info needs to store colour? 17:28:09 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:28:21 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yeah, should save ugly things' real colour somewhere 17:29:08 <|amethyst> two fields colour and basecolour maybe 17:29:22 hrm, does monster_info need to persist independently of the monster? I can't get the monster and do e.g. monster_colour(true)? 17:29:23 <|amethyst> oh, honestly, maybe the colour override thing should be in monster_info completely 17:29:35 monster::colour(true) 17:29:35 <|amethyst> gammafunk: get the monster? 17:29:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh, go from a monster_info to a monster 17:29:46 yes 17:29:49 <|amethyst> no, I don't think you can do that 17:30:14 well moving overrides to monster_info could work, yeah 17:30:47 <|amethyst> well 17:30:59 <|amethyst> you could iterate over all the monsters and find the one with the same client_id 17:31:02 <|amethyst> but that's bad :) 17:31:07 heh, yeah sounds bad 17:31:21 <|amethyst> anyway, the idea of monster_info is that you shouldn't be able to get back to the monster 17:32:08 well alright, hopefully just methodizing monster_info.colour and having it check Options.mon_glyph_override like I'm currently doing in monster::colour 17:32:19 and maybe having monster_info._colour as well? 17:32:24 <|amethyst> yeah 17:32:30 <|amethyst> hm 17:32:50 <|amethyst> oh, but monster::colour() still needs to exist doesn't it :( 17:32:56 yeah it would 17:33:02 for inheriting colour purposes 17:33:19 <|amethyst> hm 17:33:22 <|amethyst> or does it 17:33:50 <|amethyst> I guess it would be a pain to have to make a monster_info every time you wanted to query the colour 17:34:55 <|amethyst> (though that's how names work) 17:35:26 <|amethyst> I just don't want to have all this logic duplicated in both monster and monster_info 17:36:15 <|amethyst> hm, where is monster::colour used? it's kind of hard to grep for 17:36:19 hrm, not seeing an awful lot of calls to monster::colour 17:36:24 <|amethyst> yeah 17:36:36 <|amethyst> I imagine the biggest place is when creating a monster_info 17:36:39 |amethyst: monster corpses is one 17:36:56 <|amethyst> eh, we can make a temporary monster_info there 17:37:09 <|amethyst> since making corpses doesn't happen *that* often 17:37:17 tiamat init 17:38:02 <|amethyst> gammafunk: which shouldn't respect overrides anyway 17:38:04 creating tentacles, yeah not a lot of things 17:38:22 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:38:46 |amethyst: tiamat should probably respect mon_glyph overrides? or do you mean vault overrides 17:39:07 <|amethyst> gammafunk: hm 17:39:27 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was thinking, if you override draconian colours that shouldn't override Tiamat 17:39:31 <|amethyst> but maybe it should 17:39:40 well she has her on monster type anyhow 17:39:46 but I guess yeah 17:39:50 right, it's from dracs 17:40:13 <|amethyst> oh 17:40:27 <|amethyst> did you change draconian_change_colour 17:40:28 <|amethyst> ? 17:40:56 no 17:41:08 but with my current code it should be fine 17:41:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk: shouldn't drac->colour just be -1 ? 17:41:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: instead of explicitly setting it to the mons_class_colour ? 17:42:01 <|amethyst> err, drac->_colour I mean 17:42:11 no since her defined colour is black I think 17:42:19 it should change her actual colour each time, including on init 17:42:46 -1 would try to inherit black, which would just give her a random colour in the end 17:42:57 which would be fine I guess 17:42:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh, it doesn't look at base_monster at all 17:43:25 my code? no it just uses monster_symbols if colour is not -1 17:43:39 <|amethyst> ah... since colour is based on class and not species 17:43:39 and that is by just the monster_type 17:43:48 right 17:44:45 so it sounds that maybe I can de-methodize monster::colour and just use some monster info for the parts that need to get the correctly modulated colour? 17:44:56 <|amethyst> so the rule we're going with is this? : mon_glyph option (if it specifies a colour) overrides monster->_colour overrides (if not -1) mons_class_colour 17:45:14 Would it be better to remove or reform vault hive_lemuel? 17:45:15 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:45:16 !vault hive_lemuel 17:45:16 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/variable/mini_monsters.des;hb=HEAD#l125 17:45:31 glass 17:45:33 yeah that's the current status 17:46:04 current status except for ugly things, at least 17:46:40 well to be specific, the override works for them, but it works too well since their name is getting changed 17:46:45 <|amethyst> gammafunk: as for your last question: yes, you can make a monster_info with MILEV_NAME 17:47:22 ok 17:47:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: and with the fix, their monster_info::_colour will be their "true" colour, and player-specified colour will override that for display purposes 17:48:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: err, "the fix" being "move the logic and method to monster_info" 17:48:11 |amethyst: yes, override that using a monster_info:colour() method 17:49:05 ok, hopefully I can finally finish this silly thing 17:49:08 sheesh what a pain 17:50:51 It looks like most people were pushing for caustic wasps at 60 MR (elephant, siren, fire dragon, hydra) rather than 80 MR (deep elves, merfolk aquamancer, ghoul, fire giant). I do think moving the wasps back to bees makes sense too: caustic bees, murder bees, omega bees, oozing bees, hissing bees . . . 17:51:00 Anyone have a name preference? 17:51:06 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:35 bee despots 17:52:21 .oO { beestards } 17:52:44 theTower: Just to be clear, when you said "glass" you mean you think hive_lemuel should have glass added to it, correct? 17:52:46 beeholders 17:52:49 yes 17:52:56 beenu? 17:52:57 Ok, I think I'll do that. 17:53:13 ushabee 17:53:42 why is it so hard to come up with bad bee puns 17:53:45 nothing has bee in it 17:53:52 Everything has bee in it! 17:53:55 beeheaders 17:54:08 Beexecutioners 17:54:29 <|amethyst> Apis 17:54:33 beeasts? 17:54:49 wallabees 17:55:01 fits with Crawl's origins.... 17:55:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:55:50 yes, crawl needs more weird mini kangaroos 17:55:52 japanese giant hornet 17:56:01 theTower: Ok, I put glass at each of hive_lemuel's four corners, does that sound fine/good? 17:56:25 <|amethyst> acrid anthophile 17:56:39 sure 17:57:00 acerbees? 17:57:58 60 does seem to be a good number for MR: 15 Hexes, 18 int has a very hard time landing Confuse on it, and ?fear scatters about 50% 17:58:16 death bee 17:58:33 ancient bee 17:58:45 Oh wait, that was with 100 MR 17:58:51 death bee (11y) | Spd: 30 | HD: 21 | HP: 146-203 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 5108(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 6354 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 17:58:51 %??caustic wasp hd:21 perm_ench:berserk name:death_bee n_rpl 17:59:01 good luck soldier 17:59:30 color:bloody_murder_red * 17:59:48 -!- gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:17 by contrast, at 60 MR, fear scatters all bees in a pack pretty reliably 18:00:20 <|amethyst> Lasty: scroll of fear is a max-power hex 18:00:34 200 power? wow 18:00:36 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 18:00:36 %??caustic wasp 18:00:42 <|amethyst> mass_enchantment(ENCH_FEAR, 1000); 18:00:45 ...wait they're TWENTY SPEED? 18:00:49 I thought they were only 15 18:00:51 <|amethyst> but mass_enchantment then caps it to 200 18:01:12 Lightli: I'm really amused by how every time you check on them you get re-surprised by the danger level :D 18:01:36 I'd rather deal with orbs of fire than caustic wasps 18:01:42 -!- hauzer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:43 and that's saying a lot 18:01:46 the whole thing about 18:01:58 "you'll be at 0 AC and -18 slaying in no time" part is pretty bad 18:02:21 btw they hit for up to 34 damage twice so have fun at 0 ac 18:02:44 Bloax: the ONLY caustic wasp death only had one level of corrode after fighting them from full hp. 18:02:50 yeah 18:03:06 People need to stop complaining until there's some playtest data :D 18:03:06 the acid is only there to make ridiculous AC characters like Gargoyles in CPA panic 18:03:11 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:21 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1770-gba213e8: Add glass to hive_lemuel 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba213e833ca2 18:03:27 I'm not complaining 18:03:27 I'm just terrified 18:03:30 I will not stop complaining until it is rebalanced 18:03:35 until then I refuse depths 18:03:44 so you refuse winning 18:03:45 enjoy not going to zot 18:03:47 Lightli: Sorry, primed for that, it was worse earlier <_< >_>. Also! This is more of a ##crawl discussion. 18:03:55 I refuse your depths 18:04:05 who is "you" 18:04:21 at 80 MR, about 75% of the pack scatters, and it's 1-4 tries to land a confuse at 18 int 15 Hexes 18:04:45 * Taraiph points at theTower 18:04:53 I didn't make them 18:04:56 lol 18:04:57 <|amethyst> Lasty: what about cause fear at that hex level? 18:05:09 <|amethyst> Lasty: it gets a ench power bonus over confuse for being mass 18:05:10 in fact, I wasn't too pleased about their niche from the start >_> 18:05:16 if anything, theTower was the biggest objector 18:05:29 then I will blame Lasty until Caustic Wasps are balanced 18:05:43 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:05:51 Highly Conductive to good dev discussion 18:06:06 <|amethyst> does someone have ##crawl-dev ops 18:06:40 |amethyst: about 40% 18:06:41 I've only seen grunt and dpeg act operationally 18:06:53 <|amethyst> because "I'm going to complain about them without even seeing them, and in fact keep myself from seeing them, until you change them" is not an attitude you should have in this channel 18:07:11 yeah 18:07:17 <|amethyst> "I refuse to test these, they suck too much" 18:07:18 Taraiph: gimme some data showing there's an issue and I'll happily adjust them 18:07:26 ??caustic wasp 18:07:27 caustic wasp[1/2]: potatolizard: they are jellies glued to beeeeeeeees 18:07:31 ahahahaha 18:07:33 ??caustic wasp [2] 18:07:34 caustic wasp[2/2]: that's a splat that's a lot of splats 18:07:47 caustic wasp (11y) | Spd: 20 | HD: 14 | HP: 62-92 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3) | fly | Res: 06magic(100), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 2340 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 18:07:47 %??caustic wasp 18:07:52 I think the least MR I'm comfortable with giving caustic wasps is 80 18:07:53 well, if you want to be strictly accurate, we had the same reactions after some testing with crypt and 18:08:17 <|amethyst> theTower: more of that was in ##crawl I thought 18:08:21 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:23 fair enough 18:08:24 <|amethyst> theTower: but yeah 18:08:36 I'm gonna attempt to see how caustic wasps work 18:08:40 <|amethyst> theTower: and how many people quit or went on hiatus because of that? 18:08:59 Bloax: congratulations on being the only proper cxc player 18:09:08 but right now all I can tell is that a LOT of melee characters prooobably won't be able to handle it going down or up 18:09:16 <|amethyst> Taraiph: thank you :) 18:09:26 Taraiph: I tested them with a melee character 18:09:30 and not even a very strong one 18:09:30 I thought it just became advice from the loudest figureheads to never go to the branch 18:09:34 rchandra: thanks 18:09:38 |amethyst I will tell you right now that it is bullshit 18:09:48 how do you know that 18:09:58 because I can complain about it 18:09:59 tacit vote, myself 18:10:20 how bloody privledged can you get 18:10:26 with my 15 seconds of looking at them they seem ok, cheidude can slouch and others can manage them like bees/spriggans 18:10:31 since no one offered or liked a serious bee name, I'm gonna go for caustic bees, k? 18:10:41 caustic bee 18:10:47 <|amethyst> Lasty: "acrid anthophile" isn't serious??? 18:10:52 Lasty: it's y not k these days 18:10:53 |amethyst: oh, was it? 18:10:54 <|amethyst> Lasty: but, yeah, caustic bee is fine :) 18:10:56 at least caustic wasp sort of has a ring to it 18:10:58 it'll do 18:10:59 reflavor them as permahasted formicid 18:11:01 Taraiph: Will you stop it? 18:11:05 sure 18:11:07 <|amethyst> Lasty: (no, it wasn't really serious) 18:11:18 just to check, they're Depths only, right? 18:11:21 yes, there's a nice double aus there I will miss 18:11:21 <|amethyst> anyway, must go, have fun dying to bees 18:11:25 Hydrochloride Anthophile 18:11:32 |amethyst: always! :) 18:11:34 actually, they're in the D oods... 18:11:37 Lightli: there's a very, very small chance of a single one spawning on d15 18:11:37 oh 18:11:41 <|amethyst> Lasty: D OOD also; and current Zot but that should be Vaults 18:11:47 <|amethyst> err 18:11:50 no, no, the small chance was for d:15 _band_ 18:11:51 <|amethyst> Lasty: oop 18:11:53 |amethyst: reaverb fixed that 18:11:53 theTower: will they also be bands as D OODs? 18:11:56 there's plenty of chances before that 18:11:58 <|amethyst> oh, good 18:11:59 no, not banded then 18:12:00 theTower: oh 18:12:05 <|amethyst> well 18:12:07 theTower: I think that's a feature 18:12:10 I'm gonna tweak the D odds to make that even less likely 18:12:16 dpeg: rest in piss mummyrobin o7 18:12:17 <|amethyst> not if it's a vault OOD 18:12:24 they're too strong for D in quantities > 1 18:12:27 I mean, strictly speaking they're got the company of storm dragons, vampire knights, 18:12:38 <|amethyst> I think you can get bands if it gets placed as a too-long-on-the-level OOD 18:12:39 Bloax: I cannot parse that. Is it an insult? If so, be more precise! 18:12:42 yeah, a quick band block in select branch sounds fine 18:12:45 VpKn + wasp sounds "fun" 18:12:46 curse skull (11z) | Spd: 15 | HD: 13 | HP: 55 | AC/EV: 35/3 | 07undead, evil, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1631 | Sp: sum.undead, s.torment | Sz: tiny | Int: high. 18:12:46 %??curse_skull 18:13:06 |amethyst: that's ok, imo 18:13:07 dpeg: I'm just commenting on the fact that mummyrobin would be beyond dead if they were OOD spawns. 18:13:08 theTower: where's that located? Do we do it for any other mosnters? 18:13:15 mon-place 18:13:39 torpor snails have select bands based on their locations, which is kind of like that 18:13:43 mummyrobin is already dead 18:14:00 cool, thanks 18:14:00 yo, I think there's an issue with Hobgoblin tiles in CAO 18:14:03 shhh 18:14:03 and I did a hack for monstrous demonspawns' bands to not appear in wizlab_wucad >_> 18:14:05 he doesn't know it yet 18:14:25 imagine a band of caustic wasps + torpor snail 18:14:31 rev up those teleport scrolls 18:14:32 it seems like hobgoblin corpse tiles are taking from gnoll corpse tiles 18:14:35 if only 18:14:46 >teleport >invis >resistance >rCorr 18:14:48 torpor snail (03w) | Spd: 7 | HD: 10 | HP: 54-66 | AC/EV: 8/1 | Dam: 25 | amphibious | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 422 | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 18:14:48 %??torpor snail 18:14:50 (torpor snail band is solitary random other spawn) 18:15:27 caustic wasp + torpor snail + silent spectre 18:15:32 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:15:45 watch as I impatiently shove the wasps into spider zigs 18:15:53 any good player reactions to pumpkin ghosts thus far 18:15:59 -!- hauzer has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:59 pumpkin ghosts? 18:16:12 ??pumpkin 18:16:13 I don't have a page labeled pumpkin in my learndb. 18:16:21 too bad, it's a spooky mystery 18:17:12 Blackmore (L13 MiBe) (D (Sprint)) 18:17:13 ??halloween 18:17:14 I don't have a page labeled halloween in my learndb. 18:17:18 rip 18:17:22 ??christmas 18:17:22 I don't have a page labeled christmas in my learndb. 18:17:33 torpid torpor snail (03w) | Spd: 6-8 | HD: 18 | HP: 150-176 | AC/EV: 8/1 | Dam: 37 | amphibious | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1210 | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 18:17:33 %??torpor snail hd:18 perm_ench:berserk perm_ench:slow name:torpid_torpor_snail n_rpl 18:17:59 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:30 torpored snail? 18:19:49 rocket powered torpor snail 18:20:40 torpordo? 18:20:48 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:05 torpordor snail 18:21:05 ankh-torpork 18:23:42 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:01 Time to build a vault! 18:24:09 "caustic wasp + torpor snail + silent spectre" 18:24:11 :p 18:24:51 -!- duely is now known as due 18:24:56 unknown monster: "caustic wasp-torpor snail-slient spectre chimera" 18:24:56 %??caustic wasp-torpor snail-slient spectre chimera 18:24:59 -!- due has quit [Changing host] 18:25:02 still have tele wands 18:25:02 unknown monster: "caustic wasp-torpor snail-slient spectre-chimera" 18:25:02 %??caustic wasp-torpor snail-slient spectre-chimera 18:25:21 -!- CacoS has quit [] 18:25:24 unknown monster: "caustic wasp-torpor snail-silent spectre-chimera" 18:25:24 %??caustic wasp-torpor snail-silent spectre-chimera 18:25:39 unknown monster: "caustic wasp-torpor snail-silent spectre-chimera" 18:25:39 %??caustic wasp-torpor snail-silent spectre-chimera 18:25:43 chimera (caustic wasp, torpor snail, silent spectre) (06H) | Spd: 15 | HD: 14 | HP: 61-93 | AC/EV: 10/18 | Dam: 3408(acid:7d3), 25, 15 | Res: 06magic(56), 05fire, 02cold, 09poison+++, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 1268 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 18:25:43 %??caustic wasp-torpor snail-silent spectre chimera 18:25:57 the horrors 18:26:12 I don't think mumra bothered with silent spectre support for chimeras, much less torpor 18:26:30 "poison+++" be afraid, be very, very afraid 18:27:34 chimera (Executioner, Lom Lobon, Gloorx Vloq) (06H) | Spd: 20 | HD: 12 | HP: 53-80 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 30, 4012(antimagic), 45, 10 | fighter, evil | Res: 06magic(48), 05fire++, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 13neg+++ | Vul: 08holy, 11silver | XP: 1720 | Sp: pain (d14), haste, glaciate (10-90), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range, poison arrow (3d19), miasma breath (3d11), s.torment, b.draining (3d20), dispel undead (3d20) | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 18:27:34 %??executioner-lom lobon-gloorx vloq chimera 18:28:13 oh I had an idea 18:28:18 chimera (eye of devastation, giant eyeball, shining eye) (06H) | Spd: 7 | HD: 10 | HP: 46-66 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Res: 06magic(40), asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 11silver | XP: 440 | Sp: b.energy (3d20), paralysis gaze, malmutate | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 18:28:18 %??eye of devastation-giant eyeball-shining eye chimera 18:28:18 AF_CANCEL 18:28:26 af_remove_glow?? 18:28:37 ha 18:28:47 chimera (Cerebov, Lom Lobon, Executioner) (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60, 4012(antimagic), 30 | fighter, evil | Res: 06magic(84), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 13neg+++ | Vul: 08holy, 11silver | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d17 / 8d16), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon, glaciate (10-144), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range, pain (d19), haste | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 18:28:47 %??cerebov-lom lobon-executioner chimera 18:29:00 af_cancel for what, anyway 18:29:05 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:09 -!- link_108 has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:30 It would go on enemies you normally buff up to fight against. 18:29:47 (Lom........... not that Lom needs more buffs right now....) 18:30:13 so, almost any unique 18:30:58 regarding my previous comment... http://i.imgur.com/VadRPSR.png that is not a corpse for a hobgoblin 18:31:01 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:31:13 maybe it's a hobgoblin in disguise 18:31:21 Taraiph: Report it on mantis. 18:31:22 ??mantis 18:31:22 mantis[1/1]: To report bugs or submit new content like vaults, patches or tiles, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 18:31:32 oh sweet 18:31:35 thank you reaverb 18:34:23 -!- due has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:27 FUCKING HELL 18:34:28 http://www.wowhead.com/item=116138#comments 18:34:34 THERE IS A REFERENCE TO CRAWL IN WORLD OF WARCRAFT 18:34:48 heh, yeah that's old news due :) 18:35:23 I think it's maybe a nem fan at the company that was unhapy about the nem reform 18:35:59 and here I was going to remove herd for being boring >_> 18:36:04 I think the WoW deck happened just before the latest Nemelex changes? 18:36:16 (and replace it with Elements, which does not involve elementals) 18:36:25 I'm pretty sure that thing predates nem being butchered 18:36:32 oh ok 18:36:54 due lives!!! 18:37:05 is 7/17 release date of that patch? 18:37:14 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1771-gad67e7f: Rename caustic wasps again, this time to caustic bees 10(4 minutes ago, 11 files, 28+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad67e7ff252d 18:37:31 gammafunk: I only literally found out about it recently 18:37:49 |amethyst refreshed chei just in time for me to break it again 18:37:50 There were nem changes? I am so behind, I moved house and been going through a bunch of shit so basically all I have time for these days in mindlessly playing WoW 18:38:03 well... 18:38:05 no one will ever get to use chei on terrorbees 18:38:11 nem is still in a state of flux 18:38:16 we're not happy with current nem 18:38:22 but CARDS!!! 18:38:34 (some of us would like to see drastic measures taken) 18:38:38 due: hollah! 18:38:46 deepleg! 18:38:48 how are you? 18:38:58 all I want is non-terrible cards, I don't care how the cards are managed afterwards >_> 18:39:06 three @ in one ##crawl-dev, how unusual 18:39:07 uh-oh, duepeg 18:39:16 gammafunk: hi......... 18:39:18 !learn move caustic_wasp[1 caustic_bee[1 18:39:19 caustic_wasp[1] -> caustic bee[1/1]: potatolizard: they are jellies glued to beeeeeeeees 18:39:31 !learn move caustic_wasp[2 caustic_bee[2 18:39:32 I don't have a page labeled caustic_wasp[2] in my learndb. 18:39:36 Grunt: I was counting you!!! I guess r.ax counts as well 18:39:38 !learn move caustic_wasp[1 caustic_bee[2 18:39:39 caustic_wasp[1] -> caustic bee[2/2]: that's a splat that's a lot of splats 18:39:42 or nap.kin or something 18:39:59 due: I am alright, pretty busy at the moment. Thankfully the team is going strong! 18:40:04 !remove gammafunk 18:40:11 !nerf Grunt 18:40:11 * Sequell nerfs Grunt!!! 18:40:12 so I can lazily sit back and watch Crawl prosper 18:40:18 Excellent! 18:40:26 My boyfriend got me obsessed with WoW :'( 18:40:31 not good! 18:40:34 !send dpeg gold 18:40:34 Sending gold to dpeg. 18:40:46 come back to honest roguelike goodness :) 18:41:20 or we can try to pull him back 18:41:24 * dpeg is surprised that WoW is still not over... isn't it supposed to fold one of these years? 18:41:36 plate armour unrand with two gargoyles on your shoulders 18:41:37 they said that like five expansions ago 18:41:44 it just keeps on trucking 18:41:52 potatolizard: amazing. Just like Crawl! :) 18:41:55 WoW probably won't die for a long time, aren't there some MMOs that are like 20 years old? 18:41:59 I mean they even recently came up with a way to (sort of) revive old content 18:42:23 WoW is intensely well-managed and has an extremely awesome community behind it 18:42:23 from varied another sources I can't help but think it's a bit of a trawling zombie 18:42:24 I will get bored with it eventually, I think 18:42:32 s/WoW/DCSS/ 18:42:35 <_< 18:42:43 pfffffffffffffff 18:42:49 wow isn't going down any more than heroin is 18:43:19 I think dcss will overtake LoL soon 18:43:32 also a good comparsion ground 18:43:46 just looked it up, WoW is exactly ten years old... that's ancient by video game industry standards 18:43:53 yup 18:44:04 and they're about to launch their next expansion which is ... probably the best they've ever done 18:44:21 once in ##crawl someone was critizicing dcss, comparing us to capcom, and insisted we should "stop saying that Capcom is not a valid comparison, because that's how players think" 18:44:40 ??? 18:44:44 I agree, players are terrible >_> 18:45:06 fr: Nethack vs DCSS arcade game 18:45:21 also, does that make megaman mountain dwarves??? 18:45:26 theTower: Why do you think I sicced acid bees on them?! 18:46:11 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:46:14 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 18:46:17 how do I find the release number? 18:46:28 ?v in-game 18:46:49 ty 18:46:50 it's also in the browser title bar if you're in webtiles 18:47:13 due, you should start a DCSS game to see how far we've come since you were last active! Especially with one of our newest deities. 18:48:21 Berder (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(!actor_at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 430 failed. (Zig:27) 18:48:37 due: I recommend Ru, the only good one of the new gods >_> 18:48:51 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:53 <_< 18:49:15 * Lasty hands an envelope full of cash to gammafunk. 18:49:28 $$$ 18:49:41 snap into a ru juice 18:49:43 Ru might be best, but there are a lot of nice gods recently 18:49:49 !lg due x=cv 18:49:50 1416. [cv=0.13-a] due the Exhumer (L1 MiDK of Yredelemnul), got out of the dungeon alive on 2013-04-11 08:48:50, with 20 points after 1 turn and 0:00:06. 18:49:57 hooooo boy 18:50:12 like Beogh, that was a nice addition 18:50:23 yeah quite a lot of changes 18:50:44 -!- debo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:51:24 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:52 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:06 @Grunt okay! 18:52:35 off-topic, but can anyone recommend a good window video capturing software for linux 18:52:44 can I still play 0.5 somewhere? :'( 18:52:53 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:55 Just wanted to let you know 18:52:56 your android build has problems with it's tiles 18:52:58 http://imgur.com/MuCCBm5 18:53:07 due: haha, you're oooold :) 18:53:12 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 18:53:16 you can play 4.1 on CDO, I think 18:53:17 it has been a long while since any android work was done 18:53:38 i miss 0.5 :( 18:53:51 !lg due x=cv win 18:53:56 woah, I've never seen the android build. interesting interface 18:54:00 Someone work out when my first win was, I froget how 18:54:12 !lg due won 1 x=cv 18:54:13 !lg due -log 18:54:49 ??test 18:54:51 alas, poor Sequell, we knew it well... 18:54:56 rip 18:54:58 did I break it 18:55:03 it can be easily be fixed by using the windows 15.2 tiles 18:55:09 AWKWARD 18:55:19 heh, Sequell had to go into the paper archives to retreive that game, it was so old 18:55:41 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:55:51 test[1/60]: blaargh blaargh blaargh blaargh blaargh 18:55:51 6. [cv=0.10-a] due the Politician (L27 SpBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2011-11-05 12:09:21, with 1612052 points after 157964 turns and 9:53:55. 18:55:52 1/6. [cv=0.4] bookofjude the Executioner (L27 MDFi of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-03-07 12:16:27, with 1312901 points after 154757 turns and 15:38:51. 18:55:53 1416. due, XL1 MiDK, T:1: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/due/morgue-due-20130411-084850.txt 18:55:59 hmmmm 18:56:10 I got replaced the /data/tiles from the Android folder with /tiles from the 0.15 windows build and it worked 18:56:14 oh man 18:56:19 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:20 .gmap 18:56:26 I guess if you just replace it in the .apk file it wi work as intended 18:56:26 70. Piginabag the Wrestler (L22 TrCK of Lugonu), blasted by a spriggan air mage (the air) on Depths:2 (gammafunk_depths_water_palace) on 2014-10-30 19:55:09, with 434661 points after 53254 turns and 3:05:58. 18:56:28 good day for gammafunk kills 18:56:36 .gmap -tv 18:56:42 70. Piginabag, XL22 TrCK, T:53254 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 18:56:47 !lg win -6 18:56:48 No games for win. 18:56:56 !lg due won -6 18:56:57 !lg due win -6 18:56:57 1/6. bookofjude the Executioner (L27 MDFi of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-03-07 12:16:27, with 1312901 points after 154757 turns and 15:38:51. 18:56:58 1/6. bookofjude the Executioner (L27 MDFi of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-03-07 12:16:27, with 1312901 points after 154757 turns and 15:38:51. 18:57:09 !won due 18:57:10 due has won 6 times in 1416 games (0.42%): 1xHOFi 1xMDCK 1xMDFi 1xMfCK 1xMiMo 1xSpBe 18:57:11 !lg due win -6 x=cv 18:57:12 1/6. [cv=0.4] bookofjude the Executioner (L27 MDFi of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2009-03-07 12:16:27, with 1312901 points after 154757 turns and 15:38:51. 18:57:17 0.4, lel 18:57:20 Berder (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(!actor_at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 430 failed. (Zig:27) 18:57:24 !lg due won s=cv 18:57:25 6 games for due (won): 4x 0.5, 0.10-a, 0.4 18:57:41 is that the tornado-when-someone's-ontop-of-you crash 18:57:41 a penchant towards mountain dwarves, I notic 18:57:41 e 18:57:42 anti-climactic 18:57:48 !crashlog x=cv 18:57:49 7. gammafunk, XL10 KoCK, T:13597 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/crash-gammafunk-20130831-170101.txt 18:57:54 !crashlog Berder x=cv 18:57:55 2. Berder, XL27 NaFE, T:184910 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Berder/crash-Berder-20141031-235716.txt 18:58:02 dpeg: i see hes won three of them! 18:58:07 !lm berder crash x=cv 18:58:08 2. [2014-10-31 23:57:16] [cv=0.16-a] Berder the Talismancer (L27 NaFE of Makhleb) ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 430 failed on turn 184910. (Zig:27) 18:58:09 ty 18:58:20 oh I guess vlong would be the thing 18:58:34 !lm berder crash x=vlong 18:58:35 2. [2014-10-31 23:57:16] [vlong=0.16-a0-1767-gaf01991] Berder the Talismancer (L27 NaFE of Makhleb) ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 430 failed on turn 184910. (Zig:27) 18:58:40 %version 18:58:41 trunk: 0.16-a0-1767-gaf01991; 0.15: 0.15.2; 0.14: 0.14.2; 0.13: 0.13.2; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415 18:58:46 SpBe <3 18:58:46 simmarine: gotta win a species before it goes extinct! 18:58:49 well it has the latest fixes 18:58:57 %git 18:58:57 07Lasty02 * 0.16-a0-1771-gad67e7f: Rename caustic wasps again, this time to caustic bees 10(26 minutes ago, 11 files, 28+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad67e7ff252d 18:59:16 beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees are coming 18:59:19 well, strictly speaking, the fix was to not place a player over a monster, right 18:59:25 Zig (L21 GrVM) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 2913: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Vaults:3) 18:59:30 beeeees 18:59:32 hey due! 18:59:40 so if somebody transferred up a save where they're already over a monster it could still have problems 18:59:50 targeting was the weirdest thing 18:59:50 that's not what happened there 18:59:56 if you tried to haste yourself you hasted the monster under you 18:59:58 or something 19:00:00 hydrochloric bees 19:00:13 berder has been zigging for like the last 2 hours 19:00:28 today is congregation of old crawl farts! 19:00:34 hey Keskitalo :) 19:00:49 Hi David =) 19:01:00 due: Might interest you: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7629 19:01:32 Hydrochloride Anthophile 19:02:40 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:04:23 eino! <3 19:05:01 (Crawl devs don't die; they just start a new character.) 19:05:28 OH MY GOD HE HAS DONE STUFF ALREADY?? 19:07:56 Hobgoblin corpse tile appears as separate Corpse tile instead 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9112 by Taraiph 19:08:34 yay chei is still around 19:09:10 he's just taking it easy as always 19:11:43 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:12:42 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:15:33 hrm, do we have regexp support in lua? 19:15:35 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 19:19:26 due: There's some pieces, yeah 19:19:38 but, sleep now 19:19:45 Keskitalo: see you! 19:20:00 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:24:45 -!- hauzer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:32:42 <|amethyst> gammafunk: yes, see dat/clua/runrest.lua for an example of using it 19:32:50 oh, cool 19:33:13 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:34:30 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:07 " Apparently one of the DC:SS devs showed up in the wowhead.com podcast Wowhead Weekly to discuss the last deck of Nemelex Xobeh (http://www.wowhead.com/item=116138). Curious if that was you or if one of the other devs is a big wow player " 19:35:12 ?????? 19:36:48 heh, maybe it was the WoW developer? 19:36:54 PleasingFungus: where from? 19:37:01 someone on SA PM'd me to ask 19:37:12 and now I'm curious too 19:37:19 PleasingFungus, lol, that was me 19:37:25 haha 19:37:25 there's dozens of DC:SS devs, could've been one of them :P 19:37:33 And I specifically said former develeoper 19:37:39 due: ha! 19:37:40 boo :) 19:37:42 mystery solved 19:37:47 No, it was literally me, that was how I found out about it 19:37:49 cool, what did you tell them due? 19:38:09 no, I wasn't laughing because I didn't believe you, I was laughing because I did 19:38:24 * dpeg wonders if gammafunk and Nemelex will bury the hatchet now. 19:38:33 !disbelieve PleasingFungus 19:38:33 dpeg: never! 19:38:35 I will also echo gammafunk's curiosity 19:38:37 should have told them to wait a few months so that nemelex would have been a better thing to rip off of >_> 19:38:40 Nothing, I wasn't actually on the podcast, Olivia Grace just mentioned it and I was in twh Twitch Chat and freaked out with a "what the fuck they are referencing that?! I used to develop for that game!" and then the two of them noticed my comment and thought htat was awesome, apparently, so they mentioned it during the podcast 19:38:41 dpeg: and you started that fight btw!!! 19:38:55 ahh 19:38:57 nice 19:38:58 oh ok 19:39:16 1fight dpeg, Nemelex Xobeh v gammafunk 19:39:28 <|amethyst> due: at least one dev's reaction was "I hope Blizzard doesn't sue us over it" :) 19:39:29 no it's dpeg v nemelex v gammafunk 19:39:29 no wait it's nem vs gammafunk and dpeg 19:39:42 rip 19:39:45 |amethyst: That's bizzare, we should sue them. 19:39:48 this was originally dpeg's idea! 19:39:49 ...@@...N... 19:40:02 nemelex is a naga? 19:40:09 I just agreed with him and wrote the crd mail 19:40:14 his design is slower than others 19:40:30 theTower: one of the reasons why I insist that gods have pairwise different initials is for this (they could also figure in a some minigame like this) 19:40:33 so N is for Nemelex :) 19:40:51 Okawaru is an ogre, Trog is a troll.... 19:41:05 peh, clearly they're all different colour Rs 19:41:06 uh 19:41:06 <|amethyst> the shining one is a fiend 19:41:11 Zin is a zombie! 19:41:11 TSO is an executioner??? Who would've thought! 19:41:13 I think you have the two backwards 19:41:15 Chei is a Centaur? 19:41:21 cyclops more 19:41:46 apparently Qaz is a tengu...... 19:41:58 I was attempting for irony between "Slow" + how fast centaurs were, it failed :( 19:42:16 dpeg: have you changed your opinion on nem, then? 19:42:30 well that one makes sense 19:42:31 Ple 19:42:35 curses 19:42:50 PleasingFungus: Oh, so that was a PM on SA? 19:42:55 gammafunk: no, of course not. I still think card effects are the problem. (I also think to immediate action is needed: god rooster not full.) 19:43:03 due: ya. I replied to the guy 19:43:31 god rooster still hungry, won't crow at dawn until fed 19:43:46 dpeg: I'd suggest that some kind of short-term action *is* needed, since it's very unkind to present players with a god who is bad 19:43:46 PleasingFungus: cool! 19:43:53 of course 19:44:00 gammafunk and I disagree on the form of that action 19:44:03 yeah I'm always open to people *actually* improving the god if they put in the work nem-likers go "ok, this is good now"; if he doesn't improve after another iteration or if no one steps up, then the dpeg-gammafunk plan can proceed 19:44:28 I think some variant of the Tabstorm Plan might be good 19:44:30 though that's very vague 19:44:32 well there goes my dormancy 19:44:33 ? 19:44:37 oh 19:44:37 yeah tabstorm's basic idea is fine, but the abilities 19:44:40 ya 19:44:49 eventually ill think up good ones 19:44:51 give me awhile 19:44:52 PleasingFungus: ah, perhaps. I'd rather abstain from that matter, though. (I did bring deck abilities and deck rarities to Nemelex's portable table, someone else has to sort it out now.) 19:44:57 heh 19:45:02 I'm also worried that the "all cards in one deck" think will only be fixed by very well thought out abilities 19:45:07 *thing 19:45:13 certain developers think that nemelex should be re-focused around summoning & supporting summons 19:45:27 well if you can only have N cards ultimately you need to obtain the cards you want somehow.. 19:45:30 oy, who's Certain 19:45:30 I'm undecided on that, but it's another thing to consider, at any rate 19:45:39 that seems kind of weird to me if the idea is "god of effects" 19:45:43 well random effects 19:46:09 gammafunk: presumably he would no longer be that, but something more specific (in this hypothetical summoning-focused redesign) 19:46:09 besides all the cards were "probably" available once you had both deck types with nerfelex 19:46:15 well, they're mostly "random buffs for player and summons" and "very random, usually unavailable summons" 19:46:17 we *do* already have xom & makhleb and arguably qaz 19:46:18 thoguh sometimes theyd kill you 19:46:21 with hostile summons 19:46:27 and I think I'm missing at least one 19:46:33 I think random effects (and abilities to manage randomness) can work; I just also think that starting that with a laundry list of effects was a bad idea. If there is a different way how to get at the randomness, I am all ears. 19:46:36 and you had to cross your fingers to draw into crusade or waste teleport that was sort of annoying 19:46:41 lugonu and jiyva are also chaotic, sort of 19:46:46 I guess this is "summons through cards" then 19:46:56 rather than summons the school 19:46:57 can supliment! 19:47:06 gammafunk: this sounds reasonable to me, from several perspectives. 19:47:07 *supplement (but you meant complement, anyway) 19:47:10 who doesn't want mighted dragons 19:47:16 dpeg: wait, which this? 19:47:18 or *compliment 19:47:20 ...actually that was a really smug thing for me to say & I'm sorry. 19:47:28 gammafunk: summoning through cards 19:47:40 part of the idea would be something like the old beogh suggestion 19:47:50 make potion buff both you and all your allies, etc 19:48:02 from Crawl Light... still a decent idea 19:48:05 you sort of need a new card set 19:48:07 !seen dtsund 19:48:07 I last saw dtsund at Fri Oct 31 22:55:13 2014 UTC (1h 52m 54s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: dtsund'. 19:48:08 ya 19:48:11 tabstorm: absolutely! 19:48:12 if you want to do cards i think 19:48:26 well that's not my idea, but I guess nothing is wrong in principle with restricting nem to making summons; I'm really not sure crawl needs another god of allies though 19:48:28 i think hangedman had some long write up i saved somewhere 19:48:29 yred, beogh 19:48:44 Crash (assertion failure) in mummy mega zig with tornado 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9113 by Berder 19:48:44 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:44 or god of mostly about allies, that is 19:48:44 I think there's a very big difference between summoned allies and permanent allies 19:48:45 both of those are very 19:48:46 yes 19:48:50 (As far as I see it, no matter what happens to the Trickster God, the letter N should be eternally reserved for Nemelex Xobeh.) 19:48:55 oh, son of a bitch. 19:49:06 !crashlog berder zig 19:49:06 PleasingFungus: yes 19:49:07 2. Berder, XL27 NaFE, T:184910 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Berder/crash-Berder-20141031-235716.txt 19:49:30 I have never had this problem with mummy zig floors before. That is zig number 6 with this character. The difference might be that I walked forward more than I usually do so that my LOS was packed with monsters surrounding me on all sides. 19:49:32 hahaha 19:50:02 but yea the thing I wrote was basically "decks dont exist, you have a hand of 6 cards (i choose this number for no real reason) and you can do stuff with your cards with abilities 19:50:09 !lm . crash 19:50:10 12. [2014-09-26 17:38:16] perunasaurus the Meteorologist (L27 OpSk of Makhleb) ASSERT(!actor at(newpos)) in 'spl-tornado.cc' at line 431 failed on turn 80387. (Zig:24) 19:50:13 And you have 4 suits (war summ dest escape) 19:50:23 hm. this is starting to feel really familiar now 19:50:27 the suits part 19:50:30 who wrote that old gdd thread? 19:50:38 tbh probably a much better god of summoned allies would be allowing veh to support summons again, if you can fix the problem of non-summoners getting summon spell gifts 19:50:55 gammafunk: why would you do that, beyond legacy reasons? 19:50:59 idk 19:51:05 <|amethyst> is Veh not good enough as is? 19:51:06 oh speaking of veh summons 19:51:08 gammafunk: well, with Vehumet losing summoning support, I think there is space for a (temp) ally oriented god. It's not trivial, because so many gods already dabble with allies (1BFMTY directly and probably also count EKX). 19:51:10 does a god of destructive conjurations really have any synergy with a god of summons? 19:51:14 no its just that you dont really have a reason to go him over sif 19:51:21 like, spellforged servitor 19:51:23 aside from "for the sake of it" 19:51:23 I don't know what legacy reasons means, but he'd be a fine summonings god 19:51:36 legacy reasons = "he used to do this and I'm nostalgic" 19:51:37 one thing you could do is have veh offer a conj and a summon each time and you pick one.. 19:51:45 yeah not my justification 19:51:51 how do conjurations and summons synergize? 19:51:57 right there are a few solutions for veh with summons 19:51:59 it seems like they have very strong anti-synergy.... 19:52:10 you can always change flavour to fit how you want stuff to play 19:52:16 well, you could choose the few conjurations that go through summons 19:52:18 well that's conjuration/summonings problem, it's not veh's problem per se 19:52:26 that fact that they don't synergize doesn't mean much 19:52:29 that is a problem for a conjurations/summonings *god* 19:52:32 since they end up being two gods 19:52:35 glued together poorly 19:52:39 at least mybe more chars might want veh then if they want to go melee + summons 19:52:39 no not really? 19:52:47 bolt of cold and freezing cloud and ice beast, lightning bolt and pcloud and (oh right there's no more air elementals) 19:52:59 if Sif vs Vehumet balance is tilted one way, that can surely be addressed without putting Summoning back into Vehumet 19:52:59 <|amethyst> Why not give the summons support to okawaru instead? 19:53:03 bolt of draining and pcloud and shatter and haunt >_> 19:53:18 <|amethyst> seems to fit a "battlemaster" theme more than a "let it end in hellfire" theme 19:53:31 do you see a lot of characters mixing summons & conjurations with your hypothetical "conj + summ" veh? 19:53:32 its not really about balance sif is still meh but i think if veh did something with summons maybe more chars who arent playing conjurers might take veh 19:53:33 yeah I realize some might not like veh with summons, people who play a lot of summoners or play a lot of veh can see how it'd be fine, but we did remove it already 19:53:51 aside from "im taking this god for the sake of it dang it" 19:54:13 like i might take veh on a char that started as a warrior-mage to get summons if he offered them 19:54:14 or do you see a lot of summoners & a lot of conjurers and not a lot of overlap? because that's what I see, and at that point, why would you make both of those the same god? 19:54:14 I guess if you want to make nem about summons that's at least a better design focus in my view than random effects 19:54:16 actually i def would 19:54:23 tabstorm: conjurers are a pretty sizeable build, I'd say, so I don't see a problem (also V was and is intended as a very straightforward deity, need some of those). 19:54:49 I think your focus on "overlap" just doesn't make much sense, every ability that veh has save the range increase 19:54:52 would be good for summoner 19:55:02 I mean if someone *wants* to use both conj and summons 19:55:06 then yes they have some problems 19:55:19 but making veh support summons is just fine from gameplay standpoint 19:55:30 thats more to do with "trying to hit enemies with conjurations while your allies attack is sort of tough" 19:55:33 it wouldn't hurt anything, it'd just be a terrible design. 19:55:34 the best conj/summ pairings are the evocations that conjure and then incidentally make some summons >_> 19:55:52 it would not be a terrible design; it would in fact support good summoning gameplay to have veh's abilities 19:55:54 i dont see why its terrible 19:55:59 and gameplay is what design is about 19:56:08 I would be fine with a separate "veh for summonings" 19:56:44 <|amethyst> why just summoning and conj? 19:56:52 yeah I don't see any valid reason for this separation, but its basically a moot point since I think some like dpeg would just like veh to remain more focused 19:56:55 <|amethyst> why not hexes and so on too 19:57:11 summons and conj damage enemies 19:57:12 the whole nem supporting summons was just an attempt to make the cards actually interact with each other >_> 19:57:15 veh is about "damaging spells" in a summoner/conj standpoint 19:57:30 theTower: too late; this conversation.... is off the rails......! 19:57:35 he used to be "god of destructive spells" right 19:57:44 before summoning was axed from him 19:57:53 -!- drke has quit [] 19:58:17 tabstorm: no, I don't think so. I think V was explicitly "Conjurations and Summonings". 19:58:30 ok i wasnt playing then so idk 19:58:37 <|amethyst> dpeg: Veh has always supported spells like Tornado and Shatter, hasn't e? 19:58:43 like, nemelex with just summons and buffs is meant to preserve the old "can work for nearly anybody" status of makhleb and qaz, because everybody short of conjurers appreciates buffs and can work with summons >_> 19:58:44 it was destructive spells 19:58:50 it still is, just without summoning 19:59:00 |amethyst: yes. I was talking about pre-DCSS Vehumet. 19:59:00 he still supports non-conj spells 19:59:00 yes 19:59:03 yeah destructive spells; the split away from summonings was more about focusing "theme" of the two magic gods 19:59:33 it wasn't really any great gameplay perspective, but I'm ok with it; I do think nem *could* be focused on summonings, but it feels a bit less interesting and "overlapy" 19:59:44 in the end the god just needs to be playable and not tedious 19:59:45 and if people already using summons can then get a different kind of support with an alternate set with an alternate resource while also getting buffs.. 19:59:46 tbh i think cards nem is fine you just need good cards 20:00:02 lots of the ones now are too unreliable 20:00:03 !send Lasty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meropidae 20:00:04 Sending http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meropidae to Lasty. 20:00:06 right, I was going to do some updates and relink that Card Problems list 20:00:17 ill think about it eventually maybe probably 20:00:20 wait, theTower is making up cards 20:00:24 he is clearly biased 20:00:29 Keskitalo pointed out the formal symmetry between Makhleb and old Vehumet (conjurations+summons, abilities vs spells), which kind of extends to Yredelemnul and Kikubaaqudgha (now about necromancy), but I don't think this argument is strong enough to carry gods. 20:00:35 see for instance his login names 20:01:15 actually you could for summons replace the "increase range by 1" with "increase cap by 1" for summons if veh supported it 20:01:19 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:01:25 now that we have caps that's close enough 20:01:47 yeah, for sure veh would be good for summoners with some tweaks, but the real issue is Nem and making him not horrible 20:02:06 gammafunk: It'd be awesome to find an approach to "summons god" that is ... somewhat detached (a bit like Fedhas tries to be a "ranger god" without doing anything about missiles). 20:02:21 fedhas tries to be a ranger god? 20:02:25 dpeg: yeah that is kind of interesting, for this nem direction 20:02:28 never knew 20:02:35 tabstorm: shoot through plants 20:02:41 o 20:02:46 spores blowing up, oklob acid spitting 20:02:48 ranged always laggs me too much 20:02:53 ranged combat is unhindered in water 20:02:58 tabstorm: yes, that was part of my original motivation 20:03:00 lol someone in my wow guild just called me out on developing for dcss -- apparently they didn't believe me 20:03:02 not to mention using water to slow/halt enemy progress too! 20:03:16 thats cool though 20:03:21 due: you have Dowan & Duvessa as witnesses! 20:03:26 hah! 20:03:40 <|amethyst> due: Do you go by the same pseudonym there? 20:03:52 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:04:07 due: quick, make some commits! 20:04:08 http://pastebin.com/ZapcbfUM card problems from yesterday with minor updates and the start of me writing out some further changes 20:04:36 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:05:26 <|amethyst> due: you could make a commit moving yourself to the 'retired developers' section of CREDITS.txt, but then you'd have to move yourself back because you just made a commit so are no longer in retirement 20:06:39 one thing you could do with blade card is just have it summon a dancing weapon based on power and not give the awkward brands 20:06:47 ... 20:06:48 so you dont have to carry around a weapon to dance 20:06:52 that's another one of the cards... 20:06:55 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:06:56 so merge them 20:07:05 or remove blade 20:07:24 there's too many cards for me to remember them all sorry 20:07:31 but without temp-brands from blade card, how can we abuse brand weapon??? 20:07:50 it's not like you can abuse it anyway :u 20:08:24 <|amethyst> I think brand weapon always adds a new brand now, doesn't it? 20:08:24 -!- Monkaria has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:29 yes 20:08:31 <|amethyst> rather than fixing temp brands 20:08:35 it won't make- yeah 20:08:37 |amethyst: Not really retired, I might come back. And I just told them they had to believe me, I don't really care enough about proving myself to them. 20:08:42 !tell ontoclasm http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Haetosmia_male_1.jpg 20:08:43 oh hey! 20:08:43 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 20:08:48 it's due 20:09:13 doy! 20:09:13 where's your +? 20:09:30 theTower: imo melee-only monsters are fine as summons 20:09:36 nobody has given it back to me yet! 20:09:48 let me try to fix this! 20:09:52 doy: sign in to nickserv... 20:10:03 yes, that is why there's spammals, ice beasts, hydras, 20:10:06 Not permanent though 20:10:19 malign 20:10:22 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 20:10:23 those aren't nemelex cards!!! 20:10:29 and malign is its own weird kettle of fish 20:10:38 why does nemelex need to be more boring than summons >_> 20:10:44 I miss spammals :( 20:10:50 there it is 20:10:53 <3 20:10:57 if nem makes some summons that aren't currently in spells,that's better yeah 20:10:57 \o/ 20:11:31 currently nem does... ugly things? 20:11:39 dancing wweapons 20:11:41 ugly things, herd (yaks, elephants, etc), dancing weapons, 20:11:41 bone dragons 20:11:47 demons 20:11:48 and skeletal warriors etc 20:11:49 skeletals 20:11:56 foxfire stuff 20:11:59 oh I realised 20:12:01 Yred is 20:12:11 * Grunt pauses for effect. 20:12:11 you realized that Yred is? 20:12:16 !glasses 20:12:16 ( ‱_‱)    ( ‱_‱)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 20:12:16 a death yak 20:12:23 oh 20:12:24 pffffffff 20:12:29 !haunt Grunt 20:12:29 gammafunk gestures. Insubstantial figures form in the air. The freezing wraith hits Grunt! x3 The phantasmal warrior hits Grunt! x5 20:12:40 and huh, i hadn't seen the wow thing 20:12:42 !tornado gammafunk 20:12:42 Grunt mumbles some strange words. A great vortex of air appears and lifts Grunt up! gammafunk is engulfed in raging winds. 20:12:43 <|amethyst> Ashenzari warns you: Yred is! 20:12:43 pretty cool 20:13:03 theTower: imho it is not necessary for an effect to be super complex to be interesting 20:13:06 to be fair the WoW nemelex doesns't sound as interesting, no "Dance" card 20:13:14 =\ 20:13:16 more specifically 20:13:19 wow has /dance though 20:13:39 ...well, okay, I'm going to turn back 20:13:42 is there a list of all cards currently in the game outside of the source code somewhere 20:13:52 tabstorm: the wiki, probably! 20:13:53 the source code isn't that bad for the list! 20:14:01 there's the wiki but it'll be out of date in some places 20:14:03 theTower: and say that there are enough summoning effects that they should be differentiated from each-other 20:14:04 I'm looking at the source code list right now! 20:14:05 yea 20:14:06 and idk how well they are righ tnow 20:14:07 <|amethyst> ??cards 20:14:08 cards[1/2]: See {deck}. Full list: Battlelust, Damnation, Dowsing, Experience, Famine, Flame, Focus, Frost, Metamorphosis, Pain, Shuffle, Solitude, Summoning, Swap, Torment, Velocity, Venom, Vitriol, Warpwright, Wild Magic, Wrath, Xom, the Banshee, the Bargain, the Blade (more) 20:14:09 seek the wiki for your daily dosage of 4d19 hell sentinel spines 20:14:11 <|amethyst> ??cards[2] 20:14:11 cards[2/2]: the Curse, the Dance, the Elixir, the Feast, the Genie, the Hammer, the Helix, the Helm, the Herd, the Map, the Mercenary, the Minefield, the Orb, the Pentagram, the Portal, the Potion, the Shadow, the Spade, the Tomb, the Trowel, the Warp, the Wraith. 20:14:12 where is it in the source 20:14:22 Some ?/ thing probably shows cards. 20:14:22 tabstorm: decks.cc 20:14:23 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/decks.cc#l88 20:14:23 ok 20:14:36 !dedk gammafunk 20:14:37 <|amethyst> ?/c. 20:14:38 No matches. 20:14:50 er 20:14:51 pleasingfungus: /shrug 20:14:54 !deck gammafunk 20:14:54 Grunt: heh 20:15:02 <|amethyst> hm 20:15:05 grdk imo 20:15:11 !hs * grdk 20:15:11 <|amethyst> "Cloud" should probably be "The Cloud" I think 20:15:12 13. gammafunk the Petrodigitator (L27 GrDK of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-06-02 14:19:32, with 2159344 points after 139579 turns and 18:23:15. 20:15:13 (Welcome, gammafunk the Deep Elf Death Knight.) 20:15:19 good luck taking that high score 20:15:19 !hs * dedk 20:15:20 1204. Iaido the Archmage (L27 DEDK of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 14 runes on 2008-01-31 06:46:38, with 3101700 points after 197004 turns and 1d+12:10:32. 20:15:26 14! 20:15:29 <|amethyst> likewise Warpwright? 20:15:44 Anyway, I will return soon! <3 20:15:50 -!- due has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:15:51 we just have so many monsters that could make good summons instead of this old set 20:16:02 rip due 20:16:17 (todo: death yaktaurs..........) 20:16:18 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:16:43 well most of nem summons are already good summons 20:16:44 !seen Lasty_ 20:16:45 I last saw Lasty_ at Fri Oct 31 21:04:19 2014 UTC (4h 12m 25s ago) saying 'Anyway, heading home. I'll check back to see what you all decide about MR, but maybe 80 is a reasonable compromise?' on ##crawl-dev. 20:16:45 this old set of lair monsters (with orange rats and some canines), demon copy, unnerfed swarm deck, and an unspell >_> 20:16:58 erm, swarm rod 20:17:04 really depends on what we mean by "good" here 20:17:37 -!- evilmike has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:17:59 comparable to the summonings school? 20:18:08 I like the idea of not copying existing summons spells in general, though, but really most summons you could have make good summons 20:18:40 with its stuff like lightning spire, guardian golem, monstrous menagerie, shadow creatures, malign, dragoncall 20:19:31 there are certainly lots of single-summons that word more easilly in cards than they do in spells 20:19:49 "that word more easily"? 20:19:51 provided cards are not given out like candy 20:19:52 work 20:20:24 perhaps use chimeras (randomly, or pre-made sets)? 20:20:27 dpeg: no! 20:20:32 no dpeg, no 20:20:39 then you're copying the box of beastssssss 20:20:46 there is 20:20:48 a solution 20:20:50 to that 20:20:52 :) 20:20:52 uh oh 20:20:59 gammafunk: are you prepared to get 20:21:00 PleasingFungus: what have you been drinking 20:21:01 gammafunk'd 20:21:05 summoning dissolution sounds good 20:21:06 solutions 20:21:07 PleasingFungus: are you feeling ok 20:21:15 since when has he ever 20:21:18 !send PleasingFungus more cardboard 20:21:19 Sending more cardboard to PleasingFungus. 20:21:52 wouldn't it be ironic if, instead of nemelex being removed by gammafunk, nemelex was responsible for gammafunk's hypothetical pet project getting removed...? 20:21:54 fr: rename box of beasts to box of beats, make it do damage/hexes through music 20:22:08 mm 20:22:21 singing sword is lonely as the only sonic damage 20:22:23 oh I will not rage against the machine if you remove chimeras, believe me. I suggested it already 20:22:34 I thought you were going to fix them 20:22:36 or something 20:22:53 well I did intend to try some but you know me in terms of todos 20:22:53 ggave upp more like 20:23:15 thanks dck 20:23:28 !seen dck 20:23:29 I last saw dck at Sat Oct 11 17:13:46 2014 UTC (2w 6d 8h 9m 42s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 246 seconds'. 20:23:33 I kind of miss him 20:23:43 is he gone foreva? 20:23:43 chimeras do seem a little to complex for a single consumable. 20:23:49 are lots of double-edged cards a goal of nem 20:23:57 reaverb: I agree... should occur elsewhere, and as monsters 20:23:59 dpeg: People come back at random times (see: due) 20:24:07 hm. I wonder if it would make sense to reduce average irradiate contam with spellpower 20:24:20 chimera as monsters is... 20:24:27 don't chimeras already have a working formula 20:24:34 Ghost moths drain mp while I'm invisible 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9114 by Berder 20:24:34 theTower: ...at least wizlab material 20:24:34 PleasingFungus: I think that would just mess with intutiion on how much contam you get. 20:24:34 i decided to try to write some new cards specifically to replace the "buff" type cards since some of them are sort of unreliable 20:24:35 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:36 the problem is the stuff you get from BoB are a complete joke 20:24:39 chimera get away with their complicated mechanics to a degree because you don't fight them >_> 20:24:44 I mean contam is already not super transparent. 20:25:02 PleasingFungus: IMO make gong do sonic damage 20:25:02 GONNNNG! 20:25:06 so you still couldn't double-cast if you were being careful, but you *could* recover faster (and were more likely to be able to get away with double-casting) 20:25:06 ! 20:25:08 !! 20:25:12 hi sequell 20:25:28 I honestly kind of like the idea of the 'box of beats' 20:25:34 i think box of beasts is good though you really need a lot more evo for it to be effective vs other misc items ime 20:25:41 does it initiate a beatdown on your foes 20:25:42 do we have to put a necrodancer somewhere then 20:25:48 apparently that's on sale on steam 20:25:49 PleasingFungus: What's your idea behind decreasing contam w/spellpower? 20:25:51 tempted to pick it up 20:25:54 it is great 20:25:58 you totally should 20:26:06 doy: I've been holding off until it's out of early access 20:26:16 since I've gotten burned out on games before they ever came out, before 20:26:18 which sucks! 20:26:25 reaverb: something like... 20:27:05 something like lowering piety cost with beogh smite with invo??? 20:27:13 current numbers are 1500 + random2(1500); could make it 1500 - pow * 5 + random2(1500 + pow * 5) 20:27:20 that might be too much 20:27:48 PleasingFungus: No, I mean what is your goal with this change? 20:28:24 reaverb: oh. some vague thought that it'd be nice to have more power scaling 20:28:28 since I'm nerfing the power scaling on damage 20:29:17 pleasingfungus: can I at least make pentacle get hell hound / rakshasa / pan lord extra buddies 20:29:24 yes yes aaaa 20:29:28 per our earlier discussion 20:29:28 Wouldn't power scaling by decreasing contam have similar negative effects to power scaling by increasing damage? 20:29:44 also I already reversed myself and said "go ahead and make summons more diverse" !!! 20:29:50 reaverb: well okay the reasoning was 20:30:39 right now the power scaling makes it more useful to cj than to tmut, which I don't really want (since cj has higher damage); by nerfing power scaling, I can increase base damage and thus make it more useful for tmut. but 20:31:29 maybe adjusting contam downward with contam would be a nice thing to do anyway, as a bonus for spellpower that doesn't strongly affect balance? 20:31:30 idk. 20:31:50 adjusting contam downward with contam? 20:31:54 er 20:31:58 with power 20:32:00 ah ok 20:32:09 this always happens when I revise messages too many times :( 20:32:18 Do you think 40 is a good total number of nem cards 20:32:21 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:32:21 scraps and pieces of earlier messages 20:32:24 i dont know how many there are now 20:32:40 tabstorm: it seems more useful to consider the number of cards per deck type (or per 'suit', in your scheme) 20:32:42 time to count 20:32:44 10 each 20:32:51 and 4 suits 20:32:53 and figure out how many are needed for each to give them a good amount of diversity 20:32:59 I just think having contam depend on power would make it harder to tell when you could recast irradiate or some contam-buff. Not sure what hte point of a "bonus for spellower that doesn't strongly affect balance" is. 20:33:01 i just picked 10 since its a nice round number 20:33:05 honestly I suspect you could get away with as few as six per suit 20:33:13 yea idk ill see as i go along 20:33:30 reaverb: well 20:33:30 i think most of the lame cards are the "buff" ones 20:33:31 either way 20:33:33 since they're too unreliable 20:33:34 yeah it does't need to be especially high, less than 10 is fine 20:33:42 you can't recast irradiate safely until your contam goes away completely 20:33:45 ill see how many i can think of itll probably be less than 10 actually 20:33:47 that is how the mechanic is intended to work 20:33:59 currently there are 45 cards in total 20:34:02 this would just make that happen faster 20:34:06 potatolizard: thanks! 20:34:09 ok 20:34:13 thanks man 20:34:16 reaverb: ...your second objection is fair, though 20:34:19 I will eschew complexity 20:34:36 fancy college words 20:35:15 "you can't recast irradiate safely until your contam goes away completely" <<< This is really nice, didn't realize it. 20:35:51 er, 44 20:35:54 buggy cards don't count 20:35:59 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep time] 20:36:54 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:55 it seems like you'd maybe have really big contam application variance (ug) if contam went down with spell power yet you always had a chance of getting yellow contam upon casting with some contamination 20:38:15 that sentence is bad but hopefully it's understandable 20:38:45 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:38:58 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1772-g842f547: Tweak Irradiate 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=842f547a2fb5 20:39:54 !death the sentence 20:39:54 Death has come for the sentence... 20:39:56 Grunt: did you see 9114? 20:40:02 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 20:40:28 rip 20:40:43 (I'm at work; I'll look into it later) 20:40:54 reaverb: this is the design goal (or my design goal!) for all contam-causing spells; you shouldn't be able to get an advantage by counting ticks since you last cast. It is not technically entirely true at present, but it would be very easy to tweak the mechanics (by slightly randomizing contamination lost over time) so that it was true; which is close enough for me, so long as I don't see... 20:40:55 ...anyone *actually* writing macros to count aut since their last irradiate or w/e. 20:41:04 Grunt: ty! 20:41:17 !death you 20:41:17 Death has come for you... 20:41:29 Oh, just got permission to pass this on: 20:41:33 !death death 20:41:33 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:41:34 Death has come for death... 20:41:43 !death !death 20:41:44 Death has come for !death... 20:41:58 ? 20:42:03 Ha, awesome! Thanks! Such a small world, given that so many of us grew up with sites like SA.com :) 20:42:05 I've been around since 2001, futzing around industries and eventually deciding on Blizzard as a place to end up. Hope this didn't ruffle any feathers, we love to put references in to some of our favorite products, and I've probably spent more time playing Dungeon Crawl than anything else. 20:42:06 I routinely return to DC as a source of inspiration and clean, concise design. It's an excellent model for teaching new designers :) 20:42:08 Nice talking with you! 20:42:09 JFeasel (@Muffinus) 20:42:12 are there any sequell triggers that put the argument as the first sentence, he asked, transparently wondering if he could make sequell trigger itself 20:42:30 is that the guy who put the nemelex reference into wow 20:42:46 "World of Warcraft Senior Designer" 20:42:51 so if he's not, he probably knows the guy who did? 20:42:54 O_O 20:43:00 awwww 20:43:06 that's cool 20:43:07 <3 20:43:10 ! 20:43:17 neat 20:43:24 put that on the wordpress imo 20:43:39 yeah great quote, and for players to mock 20:44:02 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:44:30 "clean, concise design" 20:44:32 haha 20:44:38 hey! 20:44:41 (: 20:44:49 well, maybe In Comparsion 20:45:00 yeah, i mean, he IS a designer on wow 20:45:00 well, okay 20:45:02 (: 20:45:03 totally clean, definitely concise, very good code, let's all be on-message about this 20:45:04 i suspect even nethack would be more concise in comparision 20:45:17 well, let's not get crazy, now. 20:45:24 too late 20:45:34 *starts collecting hammers, sets up a cottage* 20:46:20 <|amethyst> nicolae-: "even" nethack? 20:46:31 <|amethyst> nicolae-: guess who has more monster types 20:46:36 ! 20:47:43 i don't know how many monster types there are in wow, really 20:47:45 probably a ton 20:48:12 the only wow monster type I know of is a snail that instantly kills you if you just stand in front of it and hit it 20:49:02 I wonder why that sounds familiar 20:49:54 obviously it's familiar because it's a potent metaphor for existence 20:50:15 <|amethyst> nicolae-: I meant between nethack and crawl :) 20:50:28 A felid comes into view. 20:50:30 oh, hahahaha 20:50:34 wow 20:50:36 I think 20:50:41 because I used &G 20:50:45 this felid revived? 20:50:52 I got the species monster entrance 20:51:45 ! 20:51:56 that sounds 20:51:58 buggy 20:52:00 haha 20:52:02 good bug 20:52:04 like zigbennu 20:52:35 I used &G and then a felid came into view when I was resting, and I didn't manipulate the level in any way 20:52:45 <|amethyst> yeah, I can verify 20:52:50 <|amethyst> s/verify/confirm/ 20:52:52 http://www.wowwiki.com/Creature 20:52:58 <|amethyst> I bet KILL_RESET will do it too 20:53:12 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:53:20 |amethyst: hm, point, i guess i associate nethack with being more complex because of all the goofy minor interactions 20:53:39 crawl still has a fair few silly things 20:53:50 you cannot bloody polymorph into every crawl monster >_> 20:53:58 ha 20:54:01 what a shame 20:54:01 not yet, at least 20:54:25 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:54:37 silly thing (03u) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 12 | HP: 51-80 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 1708(poison:24-48) | 10doors | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Vul: 11silver | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 554 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 20:54:37 %??ugly thing name:silly_thing n_rpl n_des 20:54:45 but my air elemental speedrun... 20:54:55 !send gammafunk Air Walk 20:54:55 Sending Air Walk to gammafunk. 20:55:03 no, speed runs are done as jabberwocks these days 20:55:18 oh is that true for nethack? 20:55:22 it's actually pretty ridiculous to watch 20:55:25 yeah 20:55:36 I can't even remember why that would be a useful poly 20:55:41 http://alt.org/nethack/fastasc.html 20:55:49 remember to scum for the d:1 wand of wishing first 20:56:05 <|amethyst> gammafunk: guess what happens to summoned felids 20:56:12 ! 20:56:12 oh no 20:56:19 are they permanent? 20:56:27 please say yes 20:56:29 permanent allies, rather 20:56:32 question 20:56:44 does this imply that with a lot of patience, you could have permanent bennu armies 20:56:58 shadow creatures op 20:57:17 (bennu are not very common as random tomb spawns) 20:57:19 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:28 <|amethyst> yes, they become permanent, and keep their attitude 20:57:30 I got a few with shadow creatures on tomb:1 20:57:42 man, after reading through this net-trapping code, I am surprised it works at all 20:57:51 grargh 20:57:56 yeah, the net trapping code is terrible 20:57:59 that's what I get for not testing that 20:58:05 it relies on so many dumb fiddly details 20:58:15 it used to be worse 20:58:35 items and flags, flung from one piece of code to another like batons 20:58:42 <|amethyst> the bennu code checks for summoning 20:58:50 <|amethyst> and also reset, banishment, etc 20:58:54 also, 9110 20:58:55 phew 20:59:03 I guess I did copy that from treants 20:59:14 whose creator would actually check for that >_> 20:59:14 the shadow bennu did blow up iirc 20:59:33 (but not for treants in zigs) 20:59:55 good thing there are no summoned felids 21:00:23 well bcadren did advocate heavily for felid mummies in tomb 21:00:32 ulterior motives...! 21:00:33 would shadow-created shapeshifters becoming felids work 21:00:40 clearly felid mummies have already used up all their extra lives 21:00:46 shouldn't since the base type is unchanged 21:00:48 bcadren also advocated for rN- 21:00:51 haha 21:00:53 did he now 21:00:57 ?? bcrawl 21:00:58 bcrawl[1/4]: planned features: rn-, level 6 evap, arachnetaur, yred revenant gifts, water magic, perma-enslave, imp race, dual wielding, fruit reform, blinkitis, fe^nem unique, felid monsters in general, bdsm god, jotunn race, revival of dj, undead can worship good gods, tree race that can't use 1h weapons, acid brand, un-unranding salamander hide 21:01:24 that *can't* use 1-h weapons, ok 21:01:26 fruit reform is implemented, of course 21:01:33 gammafunk: you didn't see the thread?? 21:01:41 he also wanted special tree-only 2h weapons 21:01:47 player acid brand sounds vaguely interesting except for it not being so weak 21:01:53 <|amethyst> ??giant 21:01:54 giant[1/1]: Also a strange "experimental" 4.1.2 species 21:01:54 well sure, I mean you lost all those 1-h weapons! 21:02:06 trees start with dire flails 21:02:14 or maybe quarterstaves (how morbid) 21:02:18 they also start with rF-- 21:02:21 or was it rF--- 21:02:24 ru is clearly the bdsm god. 21:02:29 ??bcrawl[2 21:02:30 bcrawl[2/4]: 27 "b" slot gods (one for every race), sidequests, felid annhilators, plain-type damage, !borg, !ddoor, ruin tomb, distortion unrands, 0.6 AM, demons that worship chei, everyone has EP, ruin spider, player ghost moths, elf dragons, ruin pan, mass haste, wand destruction, acid magic, revive forest, continuum sized labs, buff Tr, werewolf race, !acid 21:02:42 tomb has definitely been ruined 21:02:44 EP? 21:02:50 essence points; djinn mechanic 21:02:52 essence po 21:03:13 what's with all the acid 21:03:18 is PleasingFungus secretly bcadren 21:03:23 he was ahead of his time 21:03:29 unmasked...! 21:03:41 elf dragons, as if we haven't used acid^H^H^H^H dragons in too many places 21:03:52 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:04:04 iirc the design was horrifyingly strong, it was great 21:05:10 PleasingFungus: you don't live in Las Vegas, do you? I had a dream that we were playing in an illegal poker game there 21:05:36 sadly not 21:05:38 also 21:05:39 that's weird 21:06:33 -!- Umbreoni is now known as FaMott 21:07:07 LasVegasFungusDreams, a blog by rchandra (inspired by sexyelfdreams) 21:07:09 hey people, what do you think of some of these for replacing cards in the old "deck of war" that had the buffs and stuff - http://pastebin.com/SDVK0z6q 21:07:26 blargh, no ipxmzj xekcmpiu 21:07:40 time to take a murder break 21:08:23 reading this I immediately think it would have been good to note what cards these are variations on >_> 21:08:50 they arent really variations on anything 21:08:57 since i dont know what most of the old cards are 21:09:01 ha 21:09:05 str + dex by 2? just add two? 21:09:08 just "What cards do I think i'd want to use if I was casting bufs" 21:09:11 its T1 jesus 21:09:19 yeah not a bad starting point tbh, given some cards 21:09:21 aka "lol no evo" 21:09:21 vigor is analogous to elixir, ninja to shadow, healer to a goldless alchemist, 21:09:31 well that's useless or nearly so for a duration 21:09:44 well note the no invis 21:09:50 since i just looked up what shadow does 21:09:56 _analogous_ 21:10:02 i think shadow would be better with its highest power as shadow form 21:10:07 because itd be amusing 21:10:14 increase stab bonus of weapon seems...probably bad 21:10:18 why? 21:10:21 nemelex, the god of can randomly pretend to be other gods 21:10:25 seems legit 21:10:51 for one you can't increase past the max class, and it's sort of..it probably has weird ramifications 21:11:05 max class? 21:11:12 short blades 21:11:14 oh 21:11:21 the stab bonus is by weapon class 21:11:35 except when it's not 21:11:38 it's complicated 21:11:42 the manual has a pretty good explanation 21:11:42 well I am suggesting the highest tier treat your weapon as if it was a short blade for stabbing yes 21:12:02 <|amethyst> tabstorm: but T2 would already do that 21:12:02 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:12:09 !messages 21:12:10 No messages for tabstorm. 21:12:11 ok 21:12:15 oh wait 21:12:17 not for me lol 21:12:21 <|amethyst> tabstorm: there are only three stab tiers, and if you increase that at T1 and T2 21:12:25 so, if you're already using a short blade, 21:12:26 same name length! 21:12:29 oh i didnt know 21:12:32 i assumed there were several 21:12:58 well ok just increase it at T1 then 21:12:58 Stealth also helps you make a very powerful first strike against a sleeping/resting monster who hasn't noticed you yet. This is most effective with a dagger, slightly less effective with other short blades, again somewhat less useful with long blades, clubs, spears, tridents, and felid claws, and finally even less useful (although still by no means negligible) with any other 21:12:59 weapon. 21:13:14 <|amethyst> 2: sbl or assboots 1: lbl, clubs, pokey polearms, felid claws 0: everything else 21:13:23 pokearms 21:13:25 <|amethyst> though the tier isn't *all* you could increase 21:13:26 clubs? 21:13:30 ok well give it lbl tier at T1 and sbl tier at t2 21:13:31 clubs! 21:13:32 whatever 21:13:36 <|amethyst> ??clubstabbing 21:13:36 clubstabbing ~ club stabbing[1/2]: sucks slightly less than unarmed stabbing. 21:13:36 gotta clubstab 21:13:39 anyway do these seem like usable things 21:13:42 I thought they were just bad but confuse things 21:13:43 it confuses enemies, sometimes! 21:13:45 live and learn 21:13:47 well 21:13:49 it is bad 21:13:57 it's just slightly less bad than you would expect 21:14:02 not that bad! 21:14:02 Berder (L27 NaFE) ASSERT(!monster_at(p) || monster_at(p)->submerged() || fedhas_passthrough(monster_at(p)) || mons_is_player_shadow(monster_at(p))) in 'player.cc' at line 507 failed. (Zig:1) 21:14:04 <|amethyst> tabstorm: warrior 1 and 2 seem quite a bit weaker than potion 1 and 2 21:14:05 the notion of splitting them isn't bad, but it's a 21:14:06 wow 21:14:11 well 21:14:13 poor berder 21:14:15 I almost managed to 1-shot cerebov with a club under optimal conditions, without boots of the assassin 21:14:18 !!! 21:14:21 shilly? 21:14:24 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:14:30 oh derp i thnk i meant to delete one of those 21:14:30 nah, just a +10 HW club 21:14:37 er, +9 21:14:42 im not sure which though 21:14:43 so many more durations to add 21:14:59 but i do like the idea of t3 giving the slay counter somehow 21:15:06 but i also thought t1 !agil mgiht be too good 21:15:45 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:45 imo might as well go for "too good" than "boring", you can usually just tweak numbers on something that's too good but it takes more than numbers to make a boring idea interesting 21:15:51 <|amethyst> tabstorm: what about 1: increase str+dex by 5 2: agil + might (subsumes 1) 3: T2 + SoS 21:15:57 seems good to me 21:16:19 well its just the counter, it's not noisy 21:16:32 so you do actually want the t3 21:16:49 <|amethyst> I don't know, I'm not much of a designer 21:16:59 <|amethyst> I was going by you saying that you wanted to keep that effect 21:17:02 |amethyst: did you not read the WoW developer quote? 21:17:07 yeah anyway that seems good though 21:17:13 to just merge those two 21:17:32 the thing is, like theTower said, we want to avoid maybe adding a million unique durations 21:17:56 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: just saw your message... there are decent people on SA ? 21:17:59 why cant it just be 1 duration.. 21:18:02 and its f(evo) 21:18:03 (lies) 21:18:15 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I'm pleasantly surprised 21:18:22 |amethyst: it's a weird mix 21:18:26 tabstorm: sorry, by duration I mean status light 21:18:31 oh 21:18:37 (internally they're called durations in some places) 21:18:40 ok 21:18:54 I mean one thing about that is 21:18:59 all of these would only be nem-accessable? 21:19:03 yea 21:19:03 so current decks would go? 21:19:08 all current decks go byebye 21:19:15 to the discard pile 21:19:20 exiled even 21:19:32 it'd be nem-only UI, at least, but care kind of should be taken to not make new status lights trivially 21:19:36 aren't there horrible abuses from that being a different name for a deck in 21:19:46 well, a lot of place 21:19:50 huh 21:20:02 i dont know 21:20:06 just a silly tangent 21:20:28 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:28 its not like anyone uses decks outside nem really imo 21:20:33 I guess the randomness is that you still roll the power levels? 21:20:34 may as well just make it a nem thing 21:20:38 i kind of liked the idea where you get a "hand" of five or so cards that you can use whenever and you draw from some divine deck but i imagine the interface would be a pain, in the butt 21:20:51 less so than droppin decks all the time 21:20:51 and stacking 21:20:58 and abilitying 21:21:00 it would probably be okay for each of them to be their own a-menu letter 21:21:06 yes that is the idea 21:21:10 or number, maybe. 21:21:17 yes numbers is exaclty what i was thinking 21:21:25 12345 21:21:33 or whatever the hand size is 21:21:35 but ya 21:22:29 wait, just scrolled up. potatolizard, please tell me you got tso to bless a club 21:22:32 1 thing i want t do with abilities is 21:22:37 have as little fiddling as possible 21:22:44 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:45 PleasingFungus: wizmode, duh 21:22:51 well these seem kind of rough but work at a basic level, ultimately you need to the full set of abilities and cards and get someone like PleasingFungus or Lasty_ or Grunt to implement it 21:22:51 pfffft 21:23:01 potatolizard: ahh. cheater!!! 21:23:07 isn't there 21:23:09 burn him! burn the witch! 21:23:10 hmmm 21:23:19 isn't that what asmodeus is for? 21:23:21 the burning thing? 21:23:36 "ngel god:zin dbname:zin_angel ; any weapon level:20 ego:holy_wrath ident:type / " 21:23:43 that's what antibiotics are for, the burning th-- wait nvm ahem 21:23:45 that probably doesn't get clubs 21:23:57 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:58 yes 21:24:00 im working on it 21:24:08 not that there is much of a reason to ever figure out what level:## ever does 21:24:36 so if nemelex card draw turns into a hand of cards, what would replace the existing powers 21:25:10 i had some abilities paste binned here last night 21:25:21 6*: prevent trj spawns 21:25:24 I'm guessing 21:25:26 but i think what id do is have your virtual deck have a limited number of cards 21:25:36 and it gets restocked from time to time by nem 21:25:41 that could work 21:25:42 as you gain piety 21:27:29 theTower: it does get clubs 21:27:29 I just wizmoded it 21:27:29 and abilities centered around getting the right kind of card 21:27:29 would used-up cards just vanish or would there be some notional discard pile 21:27:29 for your situation 21:27:29 the second angel got a club 21:27:29 no just gone 21:27:29 I'm not making this up 21:27:29 rip 21:27:29 discard pile is too much effort 21:27:29 true 21:27:29 interface wise 21:27:29 want to minimize effort while keeping it useful/fun 21:27:29 because im lazy as hell 21:27:29 potatolizard: okay, you can make up for your horrible cheating by some time getting that club and nearly killing cerebov the proper way. 21:27:29 will do 21:27:29 oh, yeah, minimizing interface hassle is a big plus 21:27:29 I don't think I can one-shot him though 21:27:38 what a shame 21:27:42 clearly go chei for max stats 21:28:53 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:07 |amethyst: ugh. yeah, okay, I guess we have to do it this way 21:31:11 I will add a comment until I have a better idea 21:32:33 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1773-ga19dec9: Actually tweak Irradiate 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a19dec98f30b 21:32:33 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1774-g86d98ca: Don't print doubleghost messages for no ghosts 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=86d98ca5d482 21:32:47 ehh. ehhhhh. or maybe I'll just let it sit. 21:32:49 stupid c++. 21:34:20 * Grunt appears! 21:35:21 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:35:28 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm, what about if (load_ghost(true) && want_doubleghost && load_ghost(true, false)) mpr(_double_ghost_spookmessage()) 21:35:41 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: where want_doubleghost = is_halloween && coinflip() 21:36:27 hm. is it possible that a second attempt to load a ghost would succeed when the first one failed? 21:36:35 in principle, if so, that has different semantics 21:36:54 <|amethyst> hm 21:36:56 ...also, I'm not super fond of including functions with side effects in conditionals; it *might* be clearer here? but I'm not sure 21:37:52 among other things, the short-circuiting has unintuitive effects (per point 1) 21:38:08 <|amethyst> the short-circuiting is the point here 21:38:11 <|amethyst> I guess you could write 21:38:37 <|amethyst> if (load_ghost(true)) { if (want_doubleghost) { if (load_ghost(true, false)) { mpr() } } } 21:38:49 aiigh 21:38:49 <|amethyst> though that still has side effects in a conditional 21:38:58 <|amethyst> so how do you call open? 21:39:14 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1775-g2abbbed: Disallow gaze attacks against invisible foes (#9114). 10(72 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2abbbed8cc4c 21:39:18 I try not to 21:39:25 oh. also, hm 21:39:27 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: looking into the first part 21:39:33 your version means that you always delete a ghost 21:39:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: your first question I mean, whether the second can fail if the first succeeds 21:39:45 even if want_doubleghost is false 21:39:59 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, right 21:40:13 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: you want to not delete a ghost on halloween if you place only one 21:40:32 ya 21:40:38 to avoid Critical Ghost Shortages 21:41:05 I did see people commenting on & screenshotting silly halloween ghosts, which makes me happy :) 21:41:05 <|amethyst> or, rather, if you try to place only one 21:41:18 -!- link_108 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:45 also someone (here?) mentioning the *incredibly* silly trick-or-treat line I added 21:41:51 what was it 21:42:00 !source dat/database/miscname.txt 21:42:01 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/database/miscname.txt;hb=HEAD 21:42:04 shit 21:42:51 The monsters here aren't big trick-or-treat fans. If they won't give you the Orb of Zot, you'll have to take it. 21:43:15 nice 21:43:15 one of the lines I added for starting a game on halloween 21:43:17 "welcome spam" 21:43:18 colours, colours, colours 21:44:14 I also added a shameless castlevania ref 21:44:24 no ref is shameless 21:44:55 PleasingFungus: what a horrible night to have a Castlevania reference... 21:45:02 <|amethyst> besides, it's a Castlevania II ref, which is much better 21:45:15 miasma is darkgrey, ghostly flames are lightcyan/lightblue/cyan, acid clouds are yellow, storm clouds are darkgrey and lightgrey what 21:45:26 |amethyst: castlevania ii is a castlevania game!!! 21:45:30 and currently draining clouds are darkgrey / magenta 21:45:47 morning sun come to vanquish the horrible blah blah blah blah 21:46:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the good one 21:46:42 blasphemy, the good one is dracula x and nothing else >_> 21:46:52 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: though to be fair I am basing this off the first four or so 21:48:00 looking at all the overlap I am tempted to have draining breath just randomly magenta / brown 21:48:16 ...draining _clouds_ 21:48:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:49:04 <|amethyst> theTower: a new ETC_ colour? 21:49:14 <|amethyst> theTower: or per-cloud permanently one of those 21:49:41 ideally former 21:50:31 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 36.0a1/20141028030204]] 21:50:38 <|amethyst> hm 21:50:53 <|amethyst> do we use ETC_ORCISH anywhere (other than demonic rune)? 21:51:07 pandemonics 21:51:08 <|amethyst> s/demonic/one of the possible colours for the demonic/ 21:51:19 these colours give me a headache 21:51:31 especially the age-old translocations/mutation exact copy bit 21:51:59 -!- link_108 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:21 ...actually 21:54:26 there is etc_bone, too 21:54:38 white/lightgrey clouds, very "draining" 21:56:46 * Grunt ponders landing phantom-mirror. 21:56:48 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:57:17 do it. who can stop you. no one. you're like a god, Grunt. 21:57:30 A GOD AM I 21:57:39 You see here a masochistic altar of Grunt. 21:58:13 when you reload a Grunt save game... "Grunt says:" 21:58:19 21:58:27 "Grunt says: !!!!!!!!!" 21:58:42 (worshipping Grunt auto-sets lang = !!!) 21:58:49 rip 21:58:50 :p 21:58:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:59:05 cang 21:59:05 cang 21:59:39 03roctavian02 07* 0.16-a0-1776-gc8677de: New flayed ghost tile, happy Halloween 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8677decdb30 21:59:43 clang?? 21:59:43 clang 21:59:43 Grunt: landing a mirror like that could break it >_> 21:59:50 gammafunk: I'll set it down gently! 21:59:55 good plan 22:00:13 !tell roctavian creepy.............. (the flayed ghost, that is) 22:00:14 Grunt: OK, I'll let roctavian know. 22:00:48 gotta add that to my trunk rc 22:00:51 angry skeleton half 22:01:00 angry red skeleton half 22:01:20 make them like the red castlevania skeletons 22:01:26 resurrect after a few turns 22:03:52 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 22:04:17 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1777-g83d1d28: Evokable: the phantom mirror. 10(3 minutes ago, 12 files, 115+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83d1d28874ef 22:04:21 halve their health each time until they're at 1/1 health and _then_ kill them 22:04:27 -!- Harkenn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:34 * Grunt reflects nicolae- with the mirror, and the mirror shatters! 22:05:06 can shadow nicolae- produce a phantoms / rakshasa / green crystal obvious vault 22:05:20 !lg * recent br.enter=wizlab 22:05:21 Unknown field: br.enter 22:05:23 !learn add phantom_mirror An evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of a target monster. 22:05:24 phantom mirror[5/5]: An evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of a target monster. 22:05:24 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab 22:05:25 4197. [2014-10-31 23:19:32] Piginabag the Spry (L17 SpCK of Dithmenos) entered Wucad Mu's Monastery on turn 34263. (Elf:1) 22:05:30 hm 22:05:33 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab s=br 22:05:34 4197 milestones for * (recent br.enter=wizlab): 4197x WizLab 22:05:37 sure as long as you're willing to wait for shadow nicolae to get his motivation up 22:05:39 er 22:05:44 !learn mv phantom_mirror[5] phantom_mirror[2] 22:05:44 phantom_mirror[5] -> phantom mirror[2/5]: An evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of a target monster. 22:05:48 so, never 22:05:53 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:54 phantom mirror 22:06:06 ??phantom mirror[1 22:06:07 phantom mirror[1/5]: This spell clones a selected allied creature, randomly swapping the clone and original to disguise which is real and which is fake. 22:06:09 !learn edit phantom_mirror[2] s/.*/Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Stacks!/ 22:06:09 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab -1 22:06:09 phantom mirror[2/5]: Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Stacks! 22:06:10 4197. [2014-10-31 23:19:32] Piginabag the Spry (L17 SpCK of Dithmenos) entered Wucad Mu's Monastery on turn 34263. (Elf:1) 22:06:17 !learn edit phantom_mirror[2] s/.*/Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Consumed on use. Stacks!/ 22:06:17 oh it's not that bad, it might take a few months at most 22:06:17 phantom mirror[2/5]: Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Consumed on use. Stacks! 22:06:30 consumed on use even if it fails? 22:06:31 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab s=place 22:06:32 4197 milestones for * (recent br.enter=wizlab): 4197x WizLab 22:06:38 !learn edit phantom_mirror[2] s/.*/Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Consumed on use if successful. Stacks!/ 22:06:38 phantom mirror[2/5]: Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Consumed on use if successful. Stacks! 22:06:54 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab x=depth 22:06:55 Unknown field: depth 22:06:57 !lm * recent br.enter=wizlab x=absdepth 22:06:59 4197. [2014-10-31 23:19:32] [absdepth=25] Piginabag the Spry (L17 SpCK of Dithmenos) entered Wucad Mu's Monastery on turn 34263. (Elf:1) 22:07:07 looked to me like it was consumed only if successful 22:07:18 can I get the branch from which they entered for s= purposes? 22:07:53 !lm * br.enter=abyss s=oldbr 22:07:54 Unknown field: oldbr 22:07:55 hm 22:07:57 phantom mirrors in your inventory should have the player tile (cropped, reflected) in them 22:07:58 I know it exists; let me find it. 22:08:07 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:22 !lm * br.enter=abyss s=oplace 22:08:23 43 milestones for * (br.enter=abyss): 9x Elf:3, 4x D:24, 3x D:23, 3x D:9, 3x Zot:5, 2x Elf:4, 2x Vaults:8, 2x Zot:4, 2x D:21, 2x Vaults:1, Zot:1, Vaults:6, Vaults:2, Snake:3, Shoals:5, Orc:4, Lair:3, D:8, D:27, D:18, D:15 22:08:27 aha, thanks 22:08:30 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:46 !lm * abyss.enter s=oplace 22:08:47 108816 milestones for * (abyss.enter): 9289x Pan, 8264x Elf:3, 3444x D:21, 3325x Depths:4, 3299x D:25, 2672x D:22, 2414x D:8, 2192x Depths:1, 2151x Orc:4, 1954x D:23, 1942x Elf:5, 1896x D:10, 1775x Depths:2, 1739x D:9, 1739x D:24, 1670x Vaults:5, 1619x Vaults:1, 1545x D:15, 1510x D:14, 1429x Vaults:2, 1394x D:3, 1370x Depths:3, 1364x D:11, 1356x Elf:1, 1352x D:4, 1339x Depths:5, 1339x D:1, 1337x V... 22:08:59 only thing is I kind of need the branch not the place 22:09:13 do it by hand 22:09:17 do itttttt 22:09:20 well sure but 22:09:45 oh you can do cute sequell var tricks maybe 22:09:58 ??sequell[2 22:09:59 sequell[2/4]: https://loom.shalott.org/userdef.html lists user-defined keywords/commands/functions. 22:10:03 ??sequell[3 22:10:04 sequellese[1/1]: https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/docs/commandline.md 22:11:49 sanity slipping, struggling to name this ETC_ something meaningful 22:12:09 <|amethyst> theTower: ETC_DRAINING ? 22:12:28 that is a misnomer when no other draining uses the colour! 22:13:05 what colours does it have? 22:13:19 red and magenta because blargh 22:13:24 heh 22:13:40 console colour constrictions with four other clouds to worry about hurts 22:13:43 ETC_GORE 22:13:51 not sure what its context is 22:13:55 * Grunt gores gammafunk but does no damage. 22:13:55 draining clouds 22:14:11 needs to not look like miasma, ghostly flames, storm clouds, or acid clouds 22:14:18 ETC_DECAY 22:14:33 that is already an etc_ 22:14:34 it is green and brown and is that swamp rune 22:14:37 dang 22:14:45 ETC_FLESHY_BITS 22:16:17 oh 22:16:21 how about ETC_RUIN 22:17:03 etc_gammafunk 22:17:19 better than etc_hangedman 22:17:19 <|amethyst> theTower: I guess the problem with existing ETC_DEATH is that it looks like a combo of miasma and mutagenic? 22:17:25 yes 22:17:46 ETC_GRUNT 22:17:47 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:49 well, mutagenic is nowhere near where there's draining clouds, but the miasma thing is a thing 22:17:57 -!- kipster has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:18:04 <|amethyst> isn't storm/miasma a problem too then? 22:18:06 -!- Harkenn has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:18:14 stormiasma 22:18:17 in the end you can just call it ETC_DRAIN_CLOUD and be done with it 22:18:25 I listed those four because there are two different places for draining clouds 22:18:39 with storm and acid in the cloud rod, with ghostly flames and miasma in tomb 22:19:16 ETC_PHLEBOTOMIZE 22:20:01 -!- Harkenn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:12 actually 22:21:07 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:27:27 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:22 ...why is this also green alongside red and magenta 22:36:34 here, the bad idea given life: http://sprunge.us/BSPT 22:36:37 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:54 1learn add commits_that_will_never_land 22:38:54 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:39:06 ...grunt 22:39:34 death grunt, no? 22:39:47 gammafunk: 22:39:48 22:39:56 time to rename bennu to life bird 22:40:03 Lair and its branches should be listed before Orc and Elf 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9115 by Skrybe 22:40:05 death life bird imo 22:40:13 life and death bird 22:40:26 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 22:40:41 -!- Harkenn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:43:12 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:43:16 Grunt: Could be a unique <_< >_> 22:43:22 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:23 Should have a random enslaved soul. 22:43:33 http://pastebin.com/M9zLTiFV 22:43:45 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:44:25 theTower: try not bumping DISCO up? 22:46:15 -!- Harkenn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:48:49 nope, still green 22:50:34 uh... two new vault ideas (sorry grunt, I used the subst command without authorization!) 22:50:36 http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/dev/johnstein.des 22:51:04 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:32 johnstein: if you are going to Lua you should combine your _shallow and _deep vaults <_< >_> 22:51:43 god damn it 22:51:46 noooo 22:51:47 PleasingFungus: hi? 22:51:49 cassiopeia (no monsters. shallow water) and big dipper (has a black bear or polar bear depending on depth. I used !lg * recent killer=black_bear/polar_bear -graph to figure out a nice depth 22:51:52 Grunt: I was doing to redo phantom mirror 22:51:57 to be an xp evocable with no mr check 22:51:59 :( 22:52:12 haha, owned 22:52:12 what do you mean Grunt? 22:52:15 I was literally working on it before I left to go trick-or-treating 22:52:17 and then it landed!!! 22:52:26 oh. the other silly vaults in there? I should delete those 22:52:29 ...you went trick-or-treating? 22:52:30 We have enough xp evokables. 22:52:41 Not every new evokable needs to work the same way..... 22:52:46 no but 22:52:53 specifically I don't like the mr check 22:52:55 johnstein: Big Dipper is really nice because people are much more likely to recognize it :D 22:53:20 I think it's cooler to be able to mirror the really strong monsters you come across 22:53:37 and if you do that, you need to limit its use way more 22:53:39 reaverb: yea probably. though Orion is pretty recognizable I think too. 22:53:42 hence, xp evocable instead of charges 22:53:49 I guess you could just reduce the number of charges? 22:53:53 ...what's wrong with it being single-shot? 22:53:55 or make it one-yes 22:54:01 hm 22:54:03 hmm. 22:54:15 It would be extremely easy to remove the MR check >_> 22:54:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:37 It's mainly there because I don't want it to be too easy to trivialise big tough encounters. 22:54:37 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:54:41 johnstein: I guess I'm just ignorant of astronomy <_< >_> 22:54:45 probably there should be *some* restriction 22:54:56 mirroring, say, cerebov seems 22:54:57 excessive 22:55:06 hd maybe 22:55:09 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(160), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d17 / 8d16), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 22:55:09 %??cerebov 22:55:10 maybe you could make duration inversely proportionate to threat/hd...? 22:55:27 so you get, like, a turn of cerebov 22:55:29 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 33.0.2/20141027150301]] 22:55:29 ?tele is already a consumable which can trivialise almost any encounter outside rune vaults etc. 22:55:32 or like two turns 22:55:34 idk 22:55:36 PleasingFungus: could use hit points 22:55:57 kind of weird but pretty effective 22:56:00 hm 22:56:11 could work; I'm just worried about adding new mechanics 22:56:15 I think duration inversely proportion to hd would cause a werid, spoilery optimization problem. 22:56:27 theTower: found the problem 22:56:27 well ely does a similar thing for her spiel 22:56:29 threat is a better metric 22:56:32 oh god ely 22:56:34 I forgot about ely 22:56:36 theTower: the sum of the weights needs to be 120; so change 40s to 60s 22:56:42 oh 22:56:51 I think threat is probably not a great one, if you mean like the threat functions we have 22:56:51 so that's why there was all that 22:56:53 how bizarre 22:57:01 theTower: and if it gets an invalid result it uses green 22:57:30 do I still need to bump disco 22:57:32 ??phantom mirror 22:57:32 phantom mirror[1/5]: This spell clones a selected allied creature, randomly swapping the clone and original to disguise which is real and which is fake. 22:57:43 er 22:57:43 ??phantom mirror[2 22:57:44 phantom mirror[2/5]: Also an evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Consumed on use if successful. Stacks! 22:57:56 imho swap those 22:58:02 people care more about player items than monster spells 22:58:10 !learn swap phantom_mirror[1] phantom_mirror[2] 22:58:10 Swapped phantom_mirror[1] with phantom_mirror[2]. 22:58:19 !learn edit phantom_mirror[1] s/Also a/A/ 22:58:19 phantom mirror[1/5]: An evokable new for 0.16 - pass an MR check to create an illusory duplicate of the target monster. Consumed on use if successful. Stacks! 22:58:25 :) 22:58:38 oh so it's one charge right now? 22:58:49 yes 22:58:54 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:41 oh I think I have an approach that will work here 22:59:42 let me tinker 23:00:00 yeah I'd be kind of afraid of allowing mirrors of very powerful unique things for any serious duration 23:00:05 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:11 hauntify? 23:00:29 oh, I thought it was multiple charges 23:00:33 was that an earlier implementation? 23:00:38 i.e. whatever's reflected can only attack what it's reflecting 23:00:39 or am I crazy 23:00:46 reaverb: I'm just too much of an astronomy dork. which is why I need to be sure to at least make the less recognizable ones interesting enough to the average player 23:00:50 or something 23:00:56 theTower: still, cerebov 23:01:24 I didn't mean as the _only_ measure 23:01:45 o. maybe 23:02:01 sometimes the player becomes distracted by their reflection while carying the mirror and loses a turn 23:02:08 we might want to generalize hauntification code a little more, if we did that; this would be the third mechanic that does that 23:02:40 what's the third thing? 23:02:57 new-tukima 23:03:04 ah, of course 23:03:34 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 23:03:35 implemented by my little brother <3 23:03:51 03reaverb02 07* 0.16-a0-1778-g07be08f: Add glass to nicolae_straight_to_the_point (nicolae-) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=07be08fc698b 23:03:55 ...really? 23:03:59 ya 23:04:01 -!- Harkenn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:04:03 he wanted a coding project 23:04:43 03tenofswords02 {Grunt} 07* 0.16-a0-1779-ga98cc1f: Recolour draining clouds to not overlap with their nearby kin (simmarine) 10(23 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a98cc1fbff7d 23:04:43 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1780-g6619795: Adjust phantom mirror evokable's dependence on target MR. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=661979536254 23:04:47 PleasingFungus: how about this: 23:04:52 oops 23:04:56 good 23:04:57 comment 23:04:58 I didn't mean to make that first commit, but I guess it's done 23:05:06 lol 23:05:08 I blame git am 23:05:11 or er 23:05:13 git apply 23:05:14 ... 23:05:16 oops it's not even the right version 23:05:20 ahahaha 23:05:25 classic Grunt 23:05:25 ... 23:05:27 !rebase Grunt 23:05:28 PleasingFungus rebases Grunt. Grunt is banished to the reflog! 23:05:30 fantastic 23:06:04 uh. hm. 23:06:08 !source check_res_magic 23:06:09 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/actor.cc;hb=HEAD#l122 23:06:20 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1781-gfd8a97f: Hastily fix an incorrectly applied patch. 10(26 seconds ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fd8a97f9adbf 23:06:24 are you about to fix that, grunt, orrrr 23:06:24 ok, that does return a reasonable value for magic immune enemies. 23:06:35 ??oops 23:06:36 pleasingfungus[1/13]: oops 23:06:51 okay, whatever 23:06:55 That's three hot fix commits we've had today, by three differant devs. 23:07:05 not really a hot fix 23:07:06 dang 23:07:11 since it wasn't on the server 23:07:26 so, uh. at 27 evo, you always get max duration regardless of MR? 23:07:37 wait no I'm illiterate 23:07:59 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:08:02 ok, at mr immune, you get exactly one turn 23:08:10 Well, it is minimum duration 23:08:16 gammafunk: Ok, hot fix wasn't quite the right word :D 23:08:16 dur there does not correspond to turns...... 23:08:20 o 23:08:21 (it is "abjuration duration") 23:08:23 uh 23:08:30 so, hydra duration 23:08:31 is there a translation guide 23:08:32 Yes. 23:08:35 summon hydrabov! 23:08:40 yeah hydra duration is ok 23:08:44 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:55 for the most part (maybe) 23:09:02 PleasingFungus: 23:09:04 how common are these? 23:09:11 !source mon-ench.cc:2603 23:09:11 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-ench.cc;hb=HEAD#l2603 23:09:20 I want to see someone killed by their own phantom cerebov's firestorm 23:09:24 I desire it desperately 23:09:27 kill stealer! 23:09:40 oh, 9 turns 23:09:47 my first cere kill (in my first online win) he kill stealed himself :( 23:10:07 except you probably get some dumb interaction with whether or not he hasted himself first 23:10:20 gammafunk: they are about as common as any other misc item 23:10:20 it's like with mara illusion, in reverse! 23:10:26 Nine Turns of Cerebov, a novel by Grunt 23:10:34 hahahahahahahaha 23:10:39 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:00 -!- bullock has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:11:00 ... 23:11:02 what happened to 23:11:04 ya idk. could ban it outright against mr-immune enemies, but that creates a distinction again that the funk just removed 23:11:05 ??phantom mirror[Boris 23:11:06 phantom_mirror[4/5]: You kill the rakshasa! Boris says, "You can't fire me, I quit!" Boris shimmers and vanishes! 23:11:12 ...did that line disappear :( 23:11:30 it did not! 23:11:44 and uh 23:11:50 huh. it's specific to summoned borises 23:11:52 I did not know that 23:11:57 rakshasa can still rakshasa uniques? 23:12:02 or, rather, to unsummoned borises 23:12:06 it doesn't trigger with this :( 23:12:07 -!- Redz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:11 gammafunk: not any more 23:12:12 ! 23:12:14 rip 23:12:16 ya rip 23:12:18 gammafunk: I'm trying this with the evokable :) 23:12:21 hm 23:12:23 Boris (05L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 154 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 25, 1513(drain) | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5753 | Sp: iron shot (3d37), b.cold (3d32), invisibility, animate dead, o.destruction (9d18) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:12:23 %??boris 23:12:26 aw, magic immune 23:12:43 well it does sound fun, hopefully not game breaking 23:12:44 if you could somehow charm boris, then you could get mara to create a phantom of him 23:12:58 phantom caustic bee 23:13:05 there's gotta be a better name for those guys. 23:13:08 phamtom oof imo 23:13:09 just gonna bikeshed them into the ground 23:13:18 phantom oof sounds ironically pretty ineffective 23:13:30 well it'd be pretty effective against not oof 23:14:04 but maybe an a.lich with demons summons 23:14:07 would be far superior 23:14:08 huh KILL_UNSUMMONED is not used anywhere anymore??? 23:14:18 * Grunt investigates. 23:14:28 oh, I was expecting |amethyst to fix that felid revive bug 23:14:31 but I guess he didn't? 23:14:36 <|amethyst> I did not 23:14:49 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:14:52 ic 23:15:05 nine turns of ancient lich 23:15:23 I was basing my expectations on past occurances and I was wrong! 23:15:29 clearly its summons should get confused and have a coinflip chance of joining you 23:15:45 PleasingFungus: and offer conversion to Makhleb 23:15:48 ...and likewise, if you, a summoner, get mirrored by mara 23:15:54 !!! 23:16:36 hm. how do we refer to "magic resistance" in-game? "resilience against magical effects" or some dumb circumlocution like that? 23:16:57 why not just call it 'resistance to magic" 23:17:01 I wonder what's the highest possible number of monster-name modifers is? (Like "phanatom" or "spectral" etc.) 23:17:14 resistance to hostile enchantments 23:17:14 reaverb: there have been some good jokes about that 23:17:18 they can really add up 23:17:34 a chimera is probably involved 23:17:47 esp when they get ordered like "almost dead, on fire, raging" 23:18:14 <|amethyst> nicolae-: because "resistance to magic" sounds like it protects against, say, fireball... then again, so does "magic resistance" 23:18:29 hex resistance 23:18:40 resistance to certain polygoons 23:18:42 heh 23:18:46 fr: polygoons 23:19:00 polygoons!!!! :emoticon_of_a_man_shaking_his_fist: 23:19:15 spells:malmutate 23:21:11 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:24:53 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:57 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1782-g02ab389: Let mirrored Boris say his piece on unsummon. 10(38 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=02ab389f6f13 23:27:38 gammafunk: I am watching a HuBe play as Rupert 23:27:43 gammafunk: it amuses me 23:27:45 (Buxus on cao) 23:27:59 he even has a triple sword!!! 23:28:12 fr dragonform has a paralyzing shout 23:28:17 oh nice he's in vaults 23:28:46 not gonna lie, part of me gets all "yessss" when i see a vault i made 23:28:49 in someone else's game 23:28:54 nicolae-: I do that too! <_< 23:29:10 at least i'm not alone 23:29:19 pfff. 23:29:26 narcissism high five, Grunt! *nicolae and Grunt give themselves high fives* 23:29:37 I am not excited mostly because they're going to crush my vault 23:29:51 It is much better when one of your creations kills some promising character. 23:30:04 speaking of which 23:30:06 !lg * tomb 23:30:06 1441. Monsoon the Executioner (L21 MuNe of Kikubaaqudgha), slain by a death scarab on Tomb:2 (tomb_2) on 2014-10-31 21:25:43, with 369591 points after 56189 turns and 8:01:44. 23:30:08 ! 23:30:10 that one is new to me 23:30:13 !lg * tomb -tv 23:30:14 1441. Monsoon, XL21 MuNe, T:56189 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 23:30:27 yeah, i gotta make some more deadly vaults 23:30:30 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:34 !lg * ckiller=~bennu max=score ntv=0 -tv:<2.5:x1.5 23:30:36 good !!! 23:30:38 i haven't really had many players go "god damn you to hell nicolae" 23:30:38 3. sym, XL27 HOBe, T:100846 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 23:30:49 I've had plenty! 23:30:55 but that's due to cheating. 23:31:15 (specifically, in a certain vaults place) 23:31:55 wow 23:31:55 11 death scarabs 23:32:06 that's a bunch 23:32:33 !lg * tomb -2 23:32:34 1440/1441. Zig the Sorcerer (L24 MuFE of Sif Muna), blasted by an anubis guard (dispel undead) on Tomb:1 (tomb_1) on 2014-10-31 05:26:28, with 494538 points after 103600 turns and 3:56:03. 23:32:37 saw that one already 23:32:48 !lg * ikiller=caustic_wasp 23:32:49 1. Shard1697 the Executioner (L27 HOSk of Ashenzari), mangled by a caustic wasp on Zot:3 on 2014-10-31 20:36:58, with 665186 points after 89906 turns and 5:01:39. 23:32:51 ! 23:32:55 !lg * ikiller=caustic_wasp -log 23:32:56 1. Shard1697, XL27 HOSk, T:89906: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Shard1697/morgue-Shard1697-20141031-203658.txt 23:33:23 fr plane wasps 23:33:24 AF_DISTORT 23:33:27 * Grunt flees in terror. 23:33:44 I blinked and missed what sym lol'd at 23:33:56 "simm: this had better be your 15 runer" 23:33:59 oh 23:34:00 (paraphrasing I think) 23:34:53 peh, didn't exploded, and it looked like the perfect timing for it 23:34:59 !lg * ckiller=~bennu max=score ntv=0 -tv:<2.5:x1.5 23:35:04 2. EaRtHBeAsT, XL27 DEFE, T:70362 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 23:35:34 72 mp 23:35:35 wow 23:35:44 not enough 23:35:47 needs more 23:35:49 apparently not! 23:36:01 wasp wasp, stings you and creates other wasps 23:36:14 waspcursed mass 23:36:41 I like this ignoring the reaper 23:37:03 also like bennu rf+++ meaning something 23:37:29 wretched wasp 23:37:29 will people ever stop Fire Storming the Tomb:3 welcoming party 23:37:33 -!- zombcode is now known as bcode 23:37:39 people never learn...... 23:37:47 ! 23:37:47 ahaha 23:37:48 <3 23:37:49 good death 23:37:51 also 23:37:51 Grunt: well, each individual character stops eventually... 23:38:01 I am very happy that my ?blink-under-ctele warning is helping people :) 23:38:02 it was the second explosion, too 23:38:22 he read it, thought, and cancelled 23:38:26 and then died, but hey! 23:38:28 -!- fevertrip has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:39:07 !lg * ckiller=~bennu max=score ntv=0 -tv:<2.5:x1.5 23:39:11 1. Surr, XL22 NaCj, T:59354 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 23:39:41 what is this mess 23:41:16 "With an ignited by themself" 23:41:54 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:55 with a set off by their pet 23:42:54 I thought you knew about that 23:42:58 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:43:00 oh. no, I think it used to be something else 23:43:09 with a set off by themself 23:43:18 r??it 23:43:18 it[4/43]: Napkin the Spry (L19 SpFi), worshipper of Makhleb, slain by an Executioner (summoned by the player character (woven by it)) on Vault:6 on 2011-01-20, with 210498 points after 86779 turns and 13:51:43. 23:43:29 oops 23:43:31 ??it[43] 23:43:31 it[43/43]: http://trac.nethack4.org/ticket/8 23:43:47 Notes: According to Grunt, 23:43:51 mm 23:45:03 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:18 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:49:28 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1783-gd46c12b: Add an awkwardly worded Phantom Mirror clarification 10(27 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d46c12b067b9 23:51:37 PleasingFungus: how about: 23:51:50 The reflection's duration increases with Evocations skill and decreases with the magic resistance of the target. 23:51:54 ...more clear but less precise? 23:52:15 no, that sounds fine 23:52:39 I don't really care about communicating the exact mathematical nature of the relationship, just its existence + sign 23:52:55 03Grunt02 07* 0.16-a0-1784-gf5591c9: De-awkwardise the Phantom Mirror clarification. 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5591c9514f3 23:53:40 -!- DocEon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:17 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 23:58:38 !lg * current trunk max=zigscompleted 23:58:41 98697. runewalsh the Grand Master (L27 OpTm of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-08-30 15:23:29, with 10986089 points after 159400 turns and 1d+7:54:58. 23:58:51 !lg * current trunk max=zigscompleted x=zigscompleted 23:58:53 98697. [zigscompleted=27] runewalsh the Grand Master (L27 OpTm of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-08-30 15:23:29, with 10986089 points after 159400 turns and 1d+7:54:58. 23:59:05 ! 23:59:21 !lg * current trunk max=zigscompleted x=gid 23:59:22 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:23 98698. [game_key=runewalsh:clan:20140727062516S] runewalsh the Grand Master (L27 OpTm of Ashenzari), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-08-30 15:23:29, with 10986089 points after 159400 turns and 1d+7:54:58. 23:59:26 !lg * current trunk s=zigscompleted 23:59:28 98698 games for * (current trunk): 98629x 0, 43x 1, 13x 2, 6x 3, 2x 4, 2x 13, 27, 5, 7, 11 23:59:48 so that game started in august 23:59:52 if I'm reading it right