00:00:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:00:27 me or him? 00:00:33 you 00:00:38 yes, of course. 00:00:55 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:28 ok well i don't really agree with this line of thinking 00:01:55 it's usually not the most frequent game players that are the best game designers 00:02:06 sure, of course. 00:02:31 it generally helps to have touched the thing you're complaining about sometime in the last couple of years, though. 00:03:04 has there been a fundamental change since then? 00:03:11 Ds doesn't feel like it 00:03:16 no, and i've "touched" it plenty of times 00:03:34 i just don't enjoy it so i don't do it in normal games 00:04:09 i also think it's rather hostile of you to characterize "it seems odd that..." as "complaining" 00:05:27 Basil: I don't know about a fundamental change, but there have been a long series of small ones. and, also, several years have passed, which is generally considered rather corrosive to memory - I wouldn't trust myself to make design judgements on any game that I hadn't played in years. 00:05:43 ...what 00:05:47 I've played crawl *today*, jesus christ 00:06:22 yes, and I'm not objecting to your ability to criticize pre-extended crawl design. on grounds of recent experience alone, at any rate. 00:08:25 okay, here is why I think I have as much ability to "make design judgements" on extended as I did 2.33 years ago 00:08:30 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1312-gaec2d58 (34) 00:08:44 1. I can look at all the changes without playing a game online because crawl is open-source and I know how to compile it offline, how to use wizmode, etc 00:09:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:09:42 2. that's mostly it but also I have played parts of it on robins much more recently, as well as watching people play it 00:10:18 do you understand why, when you boast about not having done extended in years, people might think that you had not done extended in years. 00:10:27 do you understand why communicating poorly leads to you being misunderstood. 00:11:01 I don't think that was communicating poorly, based off the fact that you appear to have interpreted it exactly as I intended it to be interpreted 00:11:07 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20141004030203]] 00:11:50 I seem to have extreme difficulty reaching a point of resolution with this person 00:12:51 he kinda likes to just leave like that unfortunately 00:13:29 I don't even know what he actually took offense to this time, though 00:13:46 -!- namad8 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:14:15 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Client Quit] 00:17:12 next time you need to lose the argument on purpose 00:17:59 but yeah like, maybe the mark part should only start after you leave the rune level 00:18:24 since if you are actually ninjaing the rune then you are leaving the level right after picking up the rune anyway so it won't change anything 00:18:47 i assumed that was how it would work anyways 00:19:01 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1312-gaec2d58 (34) 00:19:07 if they are going to mark you as soon as you pick up the rune, just put the rune on top of the panlord 00:19:10 %git panlord-pursuit^ 00:19:10 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1291-ge2b0edc: Hellpanlords always know where their rune is. 10(26 hours ago, 4 files, 1067+ 526-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e2b0edc8673f 00:19:14 or i mean, give it to the panlord 00:19:16 have him carry it 00:19:19 whats the point anymore 00:19:25 that looks like it marks you immediately 00:20:02 i mean currently ninjaing the rune is the safest route to take 00:20:10 maybe it's not a big deal, just seems like a weird, spoiler-ish thing to encourage avoiding the rune until you kill the lord if you actually intend to kill the lord at all 00:20:13 if you make killing the panlord the safest, you may as well just give the rune to the panlord 00:21:13 that seems to be the long-term path but crawl hasn't made it there yet (if nothing else there are still characters that pretty much just can't kill the lord, especially with them getting buffs every version) 00:21:16 i guess he could get abyssed whih would be stupid 00:21:35 i'd say ninjaing the rune is probably still the easiest for non-gloorx lords 00:21:49 oh, I hadn't even thought of how bizarre it would be in abyss 00:22:02 what with the way abyss transit placement works 00:22:57 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:27:26 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 00:28:02 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:48 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 00:34:27 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:34:52 !tell Grunt panlord pursuit seems like it would have really weird results for players that banish pan/hell lords and follow them to abyss 00:34:53 minmay: OK, I'll let grunt know. 00:36:34 i dont know how i feel about that change as a whole 00:36:42 but that specific sticking point is definitely bad 00:36:54 regarding the dont pick up rune on same level 00:37:10 ctele buff 00:37:35 tbh i dont even get why panlord levels let you ctele to begin with 00:37:57 it's not like you don't know it's a panlord level immediately anyways 00:37:59 most levels do 00:38:16 sure but hells:7 specifically do not 00:38:25 and i dont see why it should be any different for pan 00:38:29 they do once you pick up the rune, don't they 00:38:36 yeah 00:38:44 maybe because pan levels aren't hells:7 00:38:44 id think panlord levels should work the same way 00:39:00 not all of pan 00:39:10 idk i guess hell doesn't have the random spawning element 00:39:22 well there was a plan to simply remove -ctele and remove ctele the ability/spell 00:39:25 unique panlord levels just don't seem very different from the rest of pan to me 00:39:34 they do to me 00:39:39 they have unique monster sets 00:39:40 i mean you explore more of them i guess 00:39:59 but they aren't like hells:7 where you have big complex vaults that take forever 00:40:18 -ctele existing in the first place is a problem yes 00:45:33 mmm i never deleted http://cowmuffins.net/stuff/crawl/me.ogg 00:46:53 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1312-gaec2d58 00:47:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:47:09 The voice that may haunt him forever, should he not return to us and, yes, finally remove ctele 00:47:30 i forget who asked me to record that, alas 00:51:38 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1313-gf3caef1: Remove archaic itemprop comments 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3caef1b3dcf 00:51:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1051-g27e8693: Arguably improve new monspell descriptions 10(28 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=27e869377c27 00:51:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1052-g9713f11: Trim out some obsolete breath weapon code 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9713f1165efd 00:51:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1053-gdfbef09: Fix tiles compilation 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dfbef0971291 00:51:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1054-g9750bfe: Clean up some unused mon-abil includes 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9750bfee8318 00:51:52 hi 00:55:00 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 00:55:51 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:57:50 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:58:57 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:02:07 -!- fireprfHydra has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:03:36 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:06:57 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:32 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:28 -!- Orphic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:21:21 -!- GhostSonOfGhost has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:26:16 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:26:57 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:27:13 well, I'm gonna do this 01:27:15 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:27:22 !nick devteamnp 01:27:22 Mapping devteamnp => kilobyte pointless dpeg enne evktalo keskitalo bookofjude haranp rob sorear zaba felirx doy itsmu marvinpa evilmike sgrunt neil edlothiol jpeg erisdiscordia galehar elliptic ontoclasm bh frogbotherer samb dracoomega mumra medar hangedman sage wheals gammafunk reaverb pleasingfungus 78291 lasty 01:27:40 hrm, actually don't remember how to recursively expand nicks 01:27:50 anyone remember how to do that? 01:30:08 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:30:20 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:43 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:38:27 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:44:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:51:58 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:46 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53:58 -!- MackTheKnife has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:00 -!- mong has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:00:56 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:05:34 -!- Eraservedd has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:06:56 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:13 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:20 -!- AGinsberg is now known as AGinsberg-0x71 02:11:11 I'm still confused about webtiles -- how do I control where it puts saves? 02:12:17 you don't - saves are saved on the webtiles server 02:12:55 I'm setting up a webtiles server :) 02:14:09 -!- Sp3c1r3 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:19 it seems that saves are put into the curdir of the webserver process 02:14:29 but I want to explicitly specify where they go for dgamelaunch compatibility 02:20:54 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:21:04 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1313-gf3caef1 (34) 02:21:28 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: _Jordan_] 02:26:50 -!- greatzebu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:27:32 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:29:10 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:32:12 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:40 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:40:47 ??degeneration 02:40:48 degeneration[1/1]: Drains a random attribute (str, int, dex) by 1d4. If you're on an old version this can induce {stat death} if the chosen stat is low enough. 02:40:52 ??degeneration card 02:40:52 degeneration card[1/1]: Attempts to polymorph all monsters in LOS to a type with less HD. Success is based on monster HD, with a higher chance of success at higher card power levels. 02:48:08 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:52:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:50 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:54:15 -!- AGinsberg-0x71 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:57:51 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [] 03:00:11 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:00:12 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:26 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:05:06 -!- xFleury has quit [Client Quit] 03:07:22 -!- Galewind has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:08:22 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:10:03 -!- Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:12 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:19:37 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:22:04 -!- Galewind_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:25:25 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:25:45 -!- omnirizo1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27:27 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:22 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:05 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:58 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:20 -!- penciltax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:23 -!- meatpath has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:30 -!- Pluie|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:13 -!- grit is now known as dudebro 03:51:28 -!- dudebro is now known as dudebro1 03:52:05 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:56:14 -!- magicpoints has quit [] 04:00:57 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 04:01:53 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:08:21 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:50 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:51 -!- flowsnake has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09:50 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:22 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:05 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:19:52 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:21 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:25:14 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:28:27 -!- AGinsberg-0x71 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:49:49 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 04:52:27 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:55:11 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:58:08 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 04:59:22 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:03:51 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:03:52 -!- wvc has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:17 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:15:30 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 05:22:36 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:24:06 -!- hauzer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:29:21 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:24 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:44:22 -!- penciltax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58:12 -!- ___miek has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:59:27 -!- amatsu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:03:56 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 06:05:46 -!- DrKe has quit [] 06:05:47 !tell checkers on the official servers, crawl is usually compiled with SAVEDIR, DATADIR and WEBDIR set. that's how the save location is determined 06:05:47 edlothiol: OK, I'll let checkers know. 06:06:06 !tell checkers see https://github.com/neilmoore/dgamelaunch-config/blob/szorg/crawl-build/update-crawl-stable-build.sh 06:06:07 edlothiol: OK, I'll let checkers know. 06:08:51 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 06:11:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 06:17:28 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:17:29 -!- stoictaste has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 06:22:32 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 06:27:09 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:01 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:03 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:30:15 -!- Mottikins__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:20 !tell checkers (the reason being that especially for trunk, there are multiple crawl versions behind a wrapper script, and each has its own save/data/web dir) 06:31:21 edlothiol: OK, I'll let checkers know. 06:32:55 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:35:08 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:45:38 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 06:51:15 !tell johnstein there's no JSON to TOML converter, but I'll convert your config if you want (I kind of forgot DBRO is still running the branch) 06:51:16 edlothiol: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 06:55:27 -!- grit has quit [Client Quit] 06:55:46 -!- dudebro1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:57:36 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:57:45 -!- CacoS has quit [] 06:59:11 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 07:00:52 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:36 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:03 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:12:25 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 07:12:36 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:35 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:13 -!- MackTheKnife has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:23:57 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:25:42 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 07:29:06 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:51 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:40:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:44:56 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:47:40 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:13 -!- Blomdor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:51:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:49 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:57:05 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:46 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:32 -!- wat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:59:59 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:51 -!- grillatactics has quit [Quit: grillatactics] 08:03:10 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:43 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:57 -!- teflonbiscuit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:07:16 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:08:19 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:10:37 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:51 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:53 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:19:49 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:20:21 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:21:21 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:22:17 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:29:22 -!- Galewind has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:32:40 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:13 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:38:33 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:02 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:19 -!- Galewind_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:56:27 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:57:06 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:11 -!- syllogism_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:13 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:21 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:58:47 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:58 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:02:12 !tell Grunt do you know why phantasmal warriors don't just have blink close? 09:02:13 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 09:03:25 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:08:34 -!- fearitself_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:08:42 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:27 !tell edlothiol is there a sample TOML config file? if so I might be able to figure it out. if not, I can just toss you the file. I don't mind giving it a try if I have something to reference. 09:09:28 johnstein: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 09:10:15 int goaded = 0; 09:10:21 if (_make_monster_angry(queen, *mi) && !one_chance_in(3 * ++goaded)) 09:10:21 return true; 09:11:09 oh, i guess one_chance_in(0) is always true? 09:11:29 <|amethyst> wheals: also, ++goaded won't be zero 09:11:42 <|amethyst> that is preincrement, so it evaluates to the incremented value 09:11:47 oh 09:11:56 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:00 for some reason i thought it was postincrement, since the variable comes after 09:12:13 * wheals needs more sleep 09:12:27 <|amethyst> time to check over all of wheals's code for ++ and -- 09:12:33 <|amethyst> :) 09:13:02 but it looks like a moth or queen can berserk multiple monsters in a turn? i've never noticed this actually happen though 09:15:07 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:04 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:33 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:00 is x, broken? instead of putting a monster at 1 hp, it asks me to make a feature mimic 09:20:16 <|amethyst> fixed already in trunk 09:20:25 <|amethyst> %git :/eath to sw 09:20:42 Could not find commit :/eath to sw (git returned 128) 09:21:12 <|amethyst> %git :/Death to Switch 09:21:13 Could not find commit :/Death to Switch (git returned 128) 09:21:16 <|amethyst> %git :/Death To Switch 09:21:17 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-1005-g57cb8ff: Fix x, 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=57cb8ffec9bc 09:21:23 <|amethyst> there we go 09:23:20 just made a good typo: if (mon->type == MONS_OF_WRATH 09:25:11 IMO if (mon-type = MONS_MOTH_OF_WRATH 09:25:15 would be better 09:26:56 johnstein: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/webserver/config.toml;h=bcc99b780d23beea2f3c284e819d19d5a589beb5;hb=61e331d53eaa72b964defca911c4b9c7cf8e2188 09:26:57 edlothiol: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:35:07 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:39 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:46:46 -!- djanatyn1 is now known as djanatyn 09:49:46 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:13 -!- Jesse__ is now known as doubtofbuddha 09:59:01 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: on y va] 09:59:26 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:00:50 -!- Jesse__ is now known as doubtofbuddha 10:00:54 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:09 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:07:19 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:10:14 -!- Jesse__ is now known as doubtofbuddha 10:13:38 -!- Oxybeles has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:14:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:02 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 10:18:52 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:19:20 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:22:33 -!- Syndicus has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:24:42 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:38:01 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1314-g3d54b91: Tweak spell hunger numbers 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d54b915ee80 10:39:29 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:39:33 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:51 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:28 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:29 wheals: I like how neither you nor Grunt noticed the tiles build was broken in mon-spell-slots :) 10:42:50 this is why I always compile in FULLDEBUG=Y TILES=Y; minimal chance of breaking the build and not noticing 10:42:52 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:34 except when a thing was unused there but used in normal TILES=Y 10:43:34 -!- zvx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:43:49 package.h 10:43:52 minimal! 10:43:58 *minimal* chance. 10:45:36 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:45:40 should really get back to getting travis working 10:47:24 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:47:47 get back to work!!! 10:48:32 Taskmaster PleasingFungus 10:48:41 *cracks demon whip* 10:55:35 wow this is great 10:55:50 PleasingFungus: corrosive bolt doesn't actually penetrate anything 10:56:12 huh 10:56:16 !source bolt::range_used_on_hit 10:56:18 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/beam.cc;hb=HEAD#l5701 10:56:28 erp 10:56:32 // Plant spit. 10:57:04 naturally that code was doing nothing at all until you add corr. bolt since !is_beam handled plant spit 10:57:25 -!- emeraldemon has quit [Quit: emeraldemon] 10:57:40 hahaha 10:57:54 I've gotta go; you can get the millimarvins for this one :) 10:58:37 wow monsters with rHellfire- take 1.2x damage 10:58:56 unfortunately it's impossible to have 10:59:00 how many monsters have rH - ah. 10:59:04 fr...? 10:59:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:23 fr getting hit by cerebov negates your ac and rf against his firestorm 11:00:25 hellfirestorm! 11:00:35 what is the reasoning for no rHellfire monsters? just not a good design choice? 11:00:50 there are loads of rhellfire monsters 11:00:52 -rHellfire, not rHellfire 11:01:26 ugh 11:02:14 removing rHellfire would make hellfire harmless in a lot of situations 11:02:16 yay reading comprehension. I was certainly surprised at the comment since I though we had rHellfire but I've learned to ignore my instincts 11:02:45 hellion (042) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 26-52 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(60), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 602 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:02:45 %?? hellion 11:02:55 i wonder how hellfire burst ignoring lof works, i can't figure out where it gets checked or anything 11:03:04 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:04:37 oh maybe it's that fire() is just never called on it 11:04:40 only explode() 11:04:48 !learn add spell_hunger In 0.16, spell hunger is (1) 50, (2) 100, (3) 150, (4) 250, (5) 400, (6) 550, (7) 700, (8) 850, (9) 1000. 11:04:48 spell hunger[3/3]: In 0.16, spell hunger is (1) 50, (2) 100, (3) 150, (4) 250, (5) 400, (6) 550, (7) 700, (8) 850, (9) 1000. 11:05:26 3723 || hspell_pass[i] == SPELL_CHAOTIC_MIRROR) 11:05:31 i never knew chaotic mirror is smite targeted 11:09:49 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20141004030203]] 11:13:28 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:14:00 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1315-g1f4ad91: Make Dithmenos specifically hate fire 10(8 minutes ago, 13 files, 16+ 116-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f4ad91e9e52 11:14:05 -!- vfoley- has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:50 rip flavour 11:16:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:17:56 huh what was shadow brand 11:18:10 oh reaping 11:18:53 rip-ing 11:19:13 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1055-g241b258: Move some flay ending code from mon-abil.cc to mon-death.cc. 10(2 hours ago, 6 files, 43+ 41-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=241b258609a9 11:19:13 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1056-g3e96c44: Remove a block of (apparently) unused code. 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3e96c44c079b 11:19:13 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1057-g4fc9604: Move moth of wrath/queen bee berserking out of mon-abil. 10(31 minutes ago, 7 files, 135+ 123-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4fc96047c33f 11:21:38 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:22:35 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:01 -!- debo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:27:43 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:07 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:58 // we should never have gotten here - doy 11:37:01 despairing doy 11:37:35 wheals: "stronger, faster, and tougher", eh? 11:38:11 how many people are going to see this desc anyway :P 11:38:26 ya 11:38:37 I feel a vague regret at ruining kb's cantrip description 11:39:37 -!- Yllodra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:41:01 feels a bit weird that all thse res_* methods that are boolean don't return, well, a boolean 11:43:35 probably for compatibility with actor methods & monsters? 11:44:15 but you could probably do, like, bool player_res_foo() and player::res_foo() { return player_res_foo() ? 1 : 0 } 11:44:19 if you wanted 11:44:26 idk if that's better? 11:44:57 well, there are a lot where neither player nor monster ever return something besides 1 or 0 11:45:20 and what would that even mean for something like res_petrify(), say? 11:47:00 -!- CacoS is now known as cacosdcss 11:47:08 -!- cacosdcss has quit [] 11:48:27 -!- fearitself_ has quit [Client Quit] 11:50:55 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:19 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:41 in cases where it's boolean for both monster and player, it seems reasonable to change the return type, yes. 11:53:41 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:00 maybe enemy spectal weapons should vanish when the monster loses their weapon? 11:54:20 Basil: this will lead to crash bugs, but probably 11:54:26 is this a captain's cutlass thing, a jiyva thing...? 11:54:32 xom thing? 11:54:35 asterion degenerated into a catlobe 11:54:38 hahah 11:54:40 best answer 11:54:47 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-1316-gabe73d9: Make Corrosive Bolt penetrate through actors it hits. 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=abe73d975e45 11:54:47 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-1317-g9680db7: Don't do 1.2x damage to rHellfire- monsters on hit. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9680db7e10da 11:54:50 !tell gammafunk <+Basil> asterion degenerated into a catlobe 11:54:51 wheals: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 11:55:01 RIP plant spit 11:55:03 metamorphosis metamorphosis vitriol jackpot 11:55:19 amazing that nobody noticed it 11:55:23 IMO 11:55:26 the plant spit thing? 11:55:32 the corr bolt thing 11:55:34 oh 11:55:43 well, it was initially only on monsters 11:55:59 and generally it matters less if monster spells are bolts, since there's only one of you 11:56:00 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 11:56:06 *beams 11:56:19 (also it's not on very many monsters) 11:56:39 then it was on the rod of destruction, but it's only one of like twenty beams, and also it's not 100% obvious why it's only hitting one monster (when it does) 11:56:55 ...but yeah, putting it on the rod probably accelerated the discovery (I assume that's how you spotted it?) 11:57:48 oh, shit 11:57:51 no, i was looking at the method to find out how hellfire burst manages to be smite-targetted 11:57:57 wheals, can you update the description of 'random bolt' to mention corrosion 11:57:59 I forgot about it 11:58:04 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:00:14 -!- fireprfHydra has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:01:06 oh, also. I have a fr 12:01:19 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 12:01:33 -!- domiryuu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:48 so like. you know how in rod descriptions, you can press letters to see the descriptions of the spells 12:03:21 and also in books, I guess? though you can also memorize there, so it's not quite the same 12:03:27 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:41 anyway. imagine if you could do the same for spells in monster descriptions 12:04:00 spells/abilities 12:04:08 instead of having to mess around with ?/S (which no one knows exists) 12:04:22 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 12:07:47 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:52 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:09 that would definitely require using a formatted_scroller to have room, i think 12:10:15 which would be a good thing anyway, of course 12:11:32 -!- cacosdcss has quit [] 12:12:03 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:30 0.16: "xv is better now" 12:16:00 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:18:07 -!- neckro23 is now known as neckro 12:18:20 -!- neckro is now known as neckro23 12:19:26 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1317-g9680db7 (34) 12:21:21 PleasingFungus: you should pull the god_pitch messages into Form objects 12:21:30 it was on the list 12:21:36 but it's kind of weird in the way it interacts with flying 12:21:42 i see 12:21:57 I guess you could check if the form enables flying, and if so use its custom message if you're flying... 12:22:24 yeah that'd work 12:22:50 oh. was talking with someone about acquirement 12:23:19 it seems like it might be nice if e.g. jewel acq was a little better, but I'm concerned about the effect that'd have on vaults 12:23:56 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:26 unfortunately my "half slaying" idea was shot down 12:24:46 haha 12:24:54 you are a slayring maniac 12:25:07 ??implemented bad ideas[$ 12:25:07 implemented bad ideas[27/27]: 1740. The +8,+8 Ring of Slaying. 12:25:17 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:37 <3 12:26:39 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Client Quit] 12:31:42 -!- Porost has quit [Quit: fgtuhy6YuivghuyYttFgbn] 12:35:43 -!- foophykins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:36:32 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:47 [D:9] the amulet "Pimin Mul" {Faith Slay-8} (4000 gold) 12:37:52 !blame wheals 12:37:53 I pronounce wheals... Guilty! 12:38:14 slay-8 was possible without my changes i think 12:38:18 maybe not that cost though 12:38:29 well, that's nicolae's gozag shop 12:38:38 good price tho 12:41:47 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 12:45:29 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:59 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:04 -!- FatShack has quit [Quit: Quit] 12:47:50 -!- FtShkAway has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:09 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 12:48:35 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 12:49:15 -!- FatShack is now known as FtShkAway 12:49:21 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 12:53:08 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:53 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:25 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:55:46 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-1318-g69f61b8: Add acid to the Random Bolt desc (PleasingFungus). 10(57 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=69f61b87535d 12:55:46 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-1319-g7ab534c: Make some binary resist methods return booleans. 10(3 minutes ago, 15 files, 83+ 112-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ab534ceeda9 12:55:46 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-1320-gb5a7ef2: Spellforged servitors are golems. 10(44 seconds ago, 1 file, 11+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b5a7ef2971ad 12:55:49 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:54 I wonder if it would make sense to upgrade scale mail from 11 to 10 evp 12:56:08 or 6 to 7 ac, i guess 12:56:13 ??scale mail 12:56:14 scale mail[1/1]: 6AC, 11ER. 12:56:14 but that feels like a bigger buff 12:56:22 ??ring mail 12:56:23 ring mail[1/1]: 5AC, 7ER. 12:56:23 ??ring mail 12:56:24 ring mail[1/1]: 5AC, 7ER. 12:56:25 ??chain mail 12:56:25 chain mail[1/1]: 8AC, 15ER. 12:56:30 well it's barely, barely better than a ring mail 12:56:31 ??wda 12:56:31 swamp dragon armour[1/1]: 7AC, 7ER, rPois. Can be created by enchanting a swamp dragon hide. 12:56:34 ??fda 12:56:34 fire dragon armour[1/1]: 8AC, 11ER, rF++ rC-. Can be created by enchanting a fire dragon hide. 12:56:34 ya 12:56:36 while considerably heavier 12:56:48 tbf, dragon armours are supposed to be better than mundane types (enchant for enchant) 12:57:05 but scale mail feels weak compared to other mundanes 12:57:08 it's main purpose is kind of "be crappy starting armour" really 12:57:14 s/'/ 12:57:18 mm 12:57:23 do fighters start with it? i forget 12:57:26 ??fighter 12:57:27 fighter[1/2]: Starts with: light weapon, scale mail, shield, str and a potion of {might} in 0.14. 12:57:45 do you think making it 10 er would be too strong 12:57:56 nope 12:58:35 maybe also push ida to 10 if you do 12:58:47 brb 12:58:47 ??ida 12:58:48 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:48 ice dragon armour[1/1]: 9AC, 11ER, rC++ rF-. Can be created by enchanting an ice dragon hide. 12:58:58 ida has 3 more base ac than scale 12:59:12 I am not sure it is all that much of a competition 12:59:52 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:59:59 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:35 hi wheals 13:00:40 did you see my messages 13:01:10 that's true 13:01:13 IDA isn't really competition because rF- is quite frankly pretty terrible. 13:01:32 just... that 13:01:50 imo fda/ida balance is a separate question from scale mail/everything else balance 13:02:33 that said, you could certainly do that; ida is already a little better than fda in terms of ac (if not resists), but a 1-point shift in evp would also be ok 13:03:08 +1 for 10 ER scale mail. Scale mail is pretty blowful. 13:03:18 ofc, this would be an incredible buff to ring of flames ida reavers. 13:04:43 I'm not convinced IDA is worse than FDA overall. There's a longer stretch of the game (admittedly in extended) where rC++ is good than where rF++ is good, and IDA + ring of fire and/or Ring of Fire is pretty solid. 13:04:56 The extra AC is noticable. 13:06:13 the only reason it's problematic in the first place is because 13:06:15 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 9248 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 13:06:15 %??orb of fire 13:06:25 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:27 these things kind of expect you to have a lot of rF 13:06:29 orbs of fire, of course, are found in exactly one area of the game 13:06:39 not counting zigs, since those don't exist 13:07:03 they are found in the one mandatory area of the game though 13:07:25 in that one part of the game where you grab the orb of winning 13:07:33 of course you can just, uh 13:07:37 But it's not like there's a shortage of ways to counteract rF-. In fact, there are more than exist for rC-. 13:07:41 wear a +0 fda instead of your +6 IDA 13:07:46 just for zot:5 13:07:51 because that sounds like a great idea 13:08:04 Lasty_: specifically there's... one more? 13:08:19 i don't think i've ever used FDA or IDA, honestly 13:08:21 one high-level 8 dual-school spell? 13:08:23 doy: !!! 13:08:29 ??ring of flames 13:08:30 ring of flames[1/2]: Level 7 charms/fire. A third ring of fire, because two rings of fire aren't enough for some people. Gives a fire enhancer, surrounds each square around you with a cloud of flame and leaves clouds of flame in your wake. Confers rF++, rC--, and makes you immune to clouds of flame. 13:08:32 7* 13:08:44 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:45 oops 13:08:45 but a level 7 dual-school spell isn't exactly something most characters would consider 13:08:53 i mean hell 13:08:57 another thing to keep in mind is that there are multiple species with intrinsic rC+ 13:08:59 most probably don't grab dmsl 13:09:00 I tried to delete "level 8" because I was uncertain, but only deleted the "level" part 13:09:06 ??dmsl 13:09:07 PleasingFungus: yup, though if you look through fixedarts I think there are a few extras in there as well. 13:09:07 deflect missiles[1/3]: A level 6 Charms/Air spell that helps you dodge enemy ranged attacks (by reducing their to-hit roll (for evasion purposes only) *to* a random amount between: 0% and 66% for penetrating beams, 0% and 50% for single-target missiles). In the books of Enchantments and Sky. 13:09:12 which is a level 6 dual-school spell 13:09:24 dmsl is its own kettle of fish. 13:09:46 also there's no frostball spell 13:09:53 though I suppose you can also get rC+ from an even more awkward spell -- necromutation. 13:10:07 or ice form!! 13:10:12 a level 8 dual-school spell :^D 13:10:13 wait.... 13:10:19 well, once we're talking ice form, armour choice starts to matter less :p 13:10:27 wheals: yeah, fire giants with no rF (or regative rF) are pretty dangerous 13:10:35 very dangerous 13:10:45 fire giant (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 69-118 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 05fire++, 12drown | XP: 1816 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 13:10:45 %??fire giant 13:11:03 and it isn't even just the fireball damage, there's the ev-ignoring part as well ofc 13:11:06 I still think it's weird that monster fball is more dangerous that monster fbolt 13:11:19 given the point wheals just made 13:11:28 er -- more damaging, I mean 13:11:32 rat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-4 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | !sil | XP: 1 | Sp: b.fire (3d9), fireball (3d8) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 13:11:32 %??rat spells:bolt_of_fire;fireball 13:11:39 see, less damaging!! 13:11:45 Withdrawn! 13:11:49 ha 13:11:51 Lasty_: yeah, monster spells in general use strange damage formulas 13:11:55 uber rat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 215-283 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | !sil | XP: 7835 | Sp: b.fire (3d117), fireball (3d127) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 13:11:55 %??rat name:uber_rat spells:bolt_of_fire;fireball hd:500 13:11:55 -!- Alpha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:12:05 power rat 13:12:07 *power ratte 13:12:19 for fireball/b. fire, I think the main reason why it hasn't been changed is that people are hesitant to mess up oof balance 13:12:26 HD is capped at 100? 13:12:34 hellrat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-4 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | !sil | XP: 1 | Sp: fire storm (8d1 / 8d2) | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 13:12:34 %??rat name:hellrat spells:fire_storm 13:12:37 no 13:12:40 I mean it seems like a reasonable limit 13:12:41 but it is on monster 13:12:45 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, plane rend, phantom mirror | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 13:12:45 %??test spawner 13:12:45 ah ok 13:12:52 -!- epsik has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:01 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fireball (3d1207), b.fire (3d1098), b.inaccuracy (12d1503 / 12d1504) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 13:13:01 %??test spawner spells:fireball;bolt_of_fire;bolt_of_inaccuracy 13:13:04 hd 100 is just an arbitrarily high number 13:13:10 quite powerful 13:13:59 !fight test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy v test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy arena:small 13:14:17 not small enough 13:14:20 !fight cancel 13:15:33 haha 13:15:41 !fight test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy v test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy arena:small_deep_pool 13:15:41 arena:little 13:15:50 bah 13:15:52 !fight cancel 13:16:13 "mennas v butterfly" 13:16:24 !fight test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy;blink v test spawner spells:bolt_of_inaccuracy;blink arena:small 13:16:26 But yeah, scale mail could definitely take a buff. It's basically the single least desireable base armour type, afaict 13:16:33 aw, no blink 13:16:44 !fight cancel 13:16:53 Lasty_: how do they rank against animal skins 13:17:01 (animal hides?) 13:17:12 they are better than most dragon hides at least 13:17:15 Aren't animal skins just robes? 13:17:20 ??armours 13:17:20 armours[1/1]: Listed in order of ascending ER: {robe}, {steam dragon armour}, {leather armour}, {troll leather armour}, {mottled dragon armour}, {ring mail}, {swamp dragon armour}, {scale mail}, {fire dragon armour}, {ice dragon armour}, {pearl dragon armour}, {chain mail}, {storm dragon armour}, {plate armour}, {crystal plate armour}, {gold dragon armour} 13:17:20 ??animal skin 13:17:21 animal skin[1/1]: The only difference between a skin and a robe is that the skin weighs almost twice as much. 13:17:24 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:17:27 ??fire dragon hide 13:17:28 fire dragon armour[1/1]: 8AC, 11ER, rF++ rC-. Can be created by enchanting a fire dragon hide. 13:17:29 wow, obsoltee 13:17:34 eek 13:17:49 eek? 13:17:51 scale mail is basically only desirable if you're a high-str background of chei going for dodging 13:17:55 he saw a hellrat 13:17:56 Lasty_: worse egos, tho! 13:18:05 PleasingFungus: well, since they only come from vaults, not necessarily. :p 13:18:18 animal skin of the Archberserkers 13:18:25 +1 to berserking. 13:18:28 ya 13:18:28 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:18:42 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:28 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:42 btw I don't think that scale mail not seeing any use long-term unless you find a great randart should worry us that much, the same is true of chain mail and most weapon types 13:20:02 lowering ER to 10 is fine but won't really change this 13:20:07 I use chain mail more frequently -- I often find a decent branded/enchanted chain mail in games where I can't find a good plate 13:20:22 sure, chain mail sees a little more use 13:20:49 -!- morphix0 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:21:20 elliptic: agreed on all points, yes 13:21:26 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:21:32 Chain mail is a little bad in that you'd usually rather use plate or one of the very rare armours. Scale mail additionally has to compete with ring mail and leather armour, and usually comes out the worse of all of them. But I suppose something has to be worst. 13:21:34 a one-point evp shift is a small thing 13:21:38 sort of 13:21:46 it isn't like starting weapon types are desirable types either 13:21:49 is my point 13:22:22 * wheals mumbles something about cutlasses 13:22:26 you'll never say "ooh, a scale mail", but you also won't say "ooh, a mace" 13:22:40 well, armour is a little different, since the evp system is good and works. 13:22:42 !send wheals a quick blade 13:22:43 Sending a quick blade to wheals. 13:22:59 that said, I don't expect many characters to be oohing and aahing over 10-evp scale. 13:23:18 You'll never say oo, an unenchanted robe/leather either, but with enchantment/ego they can be good. 13:23:36 I am not sure that anyone here is actually disagreeing with each-other 13:23:39 a +3 scale is pretty good for a while also 13:23:40 haha, maybe so 13:23:48 i don't feel strongly either way about this 13:24:01 good. now, let me introduce my next idea: ten new types of dragon armour 13:24:15 don't you have to add new dragons first 13:24:21 sounds cool 13:24:22 Water dragon armour gives rDrown+ 13:25:01 one option about scale: merge it and chain mail together into a base AC 7 armour 13:25:16 I am seriously mulling over the idea of shadow dragon armour as mid-heavy stlth++ armour. idk if anyone would use it, tho 13:25:22 esp since it comes so late 13:25:30 what does mid-heavy mean 13:25:34 I'm not against that. Scale does feel like an armour without a place. What ER are you looking at? 13:25:50 elliptic: that is a good question and one that I have not satisfactorily answered in my own mind 13:25:51 ER gives a stealth penalty; I don't think special-casing that away would be good 13:26:01 !send Lasty_ a potion of carrot juice 13:26:02 Sending a potion of carrot juice to Lasty_. 13:26:16 so it would have to have fairly low ER 13:26:18 well the other option is making the ER penalty instead depend on AEVP :v 13:26:31 Bloaxor: the stealth penalty, you mean? 13:26:35 yes 13:26:38 wheals: I don't get it -- are my eyes bad? Spoiler: yes. 13:26:45 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:26:50 Lasty_: ADOM reference 13:26:50 I'm equivocating between swamp dragon ev (which is really closer to light than mid) and storm dragon ev (which is perhaps closer to heavy than mid) 13:26:59 probably no more than ring mail = swamp dragon, I would say 13:27:06 ??oda 13:27:06 storm dragon armour[1/1]: 10AC, 15ER, rElec. Can be created by enchanting a storm dragon hide. 13:27:07 the latter would be "maybe you can get positive stealth in this at some point" 13:27:09 ??plate 13:27:10 plate armour[1/1]: 10AC, 18ER. 13:27:13 ??chain 13:27:13 I don't have a page labeled chain in my learndb. 13:27:16 ??chain mail 13:27:17 chain mail[1/1]: 8AC, 15ER. 13:27:19 mm 13:27:48 25 er is 225 stealth penalty; stlth++ is 100 stlth, so you'd be at -125 from armour overall 13:27:57 ??stealth[2 13:27:57 stealth[2/7]: Base stealth is 3*dex + stealth*spf. spf is: Troll, Ogre, Centaur: 9; Minotaur, Draconian: 12; Halfling, Kobold, Spriggan, Felid, Naga, Octopode: 18; Vampire: 18-21; All others: 15. 13:28:00 that sounds pretty pointless 13:28:02 ya 13:28:04 elliptic: how would you feel about it not giving a stealth bonus, just giving no penalty? 13:28:28 [11:25] elliptic ER gives a stealth penalty; I don't think special-casing that away would be good 13:28:50 yah, that's why i asked *him* :P 13:29:04 but he already answered...? 13:29:06 idk. 13:29:12 since i was wondering whether the objection would be just because of there being two things there 13:29:15 o 13:29:19 Shadow dragon armor gives umbra. Wait, shadow dragons don't have umbra. Um. Gives rHoly. No, shadow dragons don't have rHoly. rTorment? :p 13:29:30 ??modified stealth 13:29:32 modified stealth[1/1]: /2 when encumbered, /5 when overloaded, /3 when confused; +80 shadow card effect, +50 for every ring/boots of stealth/artefact +, -50 for every ring of loudness/artefact -, -(2/3 * ER^2), +50 if you swim, /2 if you are size<=normal and can't, -10/15/20 for hooves 1/2/3, -50 silence. 13:29:40 wheals: I don't like the idea that much that way either, no 13:29:59 the thing is that we already have MDA 13:30:05 ??mda 13:30:06 mottled dragon armour[1/1]: 6AC, 5ER, rNapalm. Can be created by enchanting a mottled dragon hide. 13:30:06 looks like 15 er gives just 150 penalty 13:30:08 And 5DA 13:30:09 which is quite heavy and has a pretty small stealth penalty 13:30:16 oh right, I forgot about 2/3 13:30:17 "heavy" in the sense of providing AC 13:30:21 so it'd be only -50 stealth 13:30:40 which is the same as, what, 9 evp armour? 13:30:43 still kind of weird 13:30:46 ya 13:30:46 any proposed shadow dragon armour of this sort seems like it would be very similar to MDA 13:30:58 slight penalty, good defenses 13:31:11 yeah, I'm not very fond of the lighter option 13:31:19 the heavier option feels more distinct; the question is whether it can work at all 13:31:28 no it doesn't 13:31:34 my point is that MDA is already rather heavy 13:31:34 no it doesn't? 13:31:34 i guess that leaves iron dragon armour? 13:31:44 QuicksilverDA: 8 AC, ER:4, MR+, can't be enchanted. 13:31:45 fr: reflavour CPA as IronDA :P 13:31:58 ??storm dragon armour 13:31:58 storm dragon armour[1/1]: 10AC, 15ER, rElec. Can be created by enchanting a storm dragon hide. 13:32:05 6 ac 5 er is quite a lot less than 10 ac 15 er 13:32:07 imho 13:32:14 I would rather see it give a net stealth bonus 13:32:20 since that is something that no body armour does currently 13:32:31 non-randart 13:32:34 -!- FatalDestiny has quit [Client Quit] 13:32:52 you'd need it to be around mda or even steam dragon armour weight for that 13:32:58 I don't remember the steam acronym 13:33:01 <|amethyst> ? 13:33:03 like, AC 4, ER 0, Stlth+something 13:33:10 probably just stlth+ 13:33:19 <|amethyst> why does making it have a net stealth bonus require giving it low weight? 13:33:28 <|amethyst> s/weight/ER/ 13:33:32 |amethyst: otherwise you'd need to layer on slth++++ or something 13:33:36 Stlth++++ 13:33:38 |amethyst: it doesn't, but that feels more natural to me 13:33:40 which would seem silly 13:33:56 and insult anyone familiar with RL dragon armours 13:34:17 Triple Dragon Armour? 13:34:24 -!- siepu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:34:29 Made from the skin of the Serpent of Hell, ofc 13:34:37 no, just made from three dragons 13:34:40 they're still alive 13:36:11 i do wonder what ironda could be 13:36:32 iron dragon (10D) | Spd: 8 | HD: 18 | HP: 103-132 | AC/EV: 20/6 | Dam: 25, 25, 2507(trample) | see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 12drown | XP: 1717 | Sp: metal splinters (3d30) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 13:36:32 %??iron dragon 13:36:35 ponderous + good defenses is the standard suggestion 13:36:39 mm 13:36:41 base ev 20 13:36:46 ac, rather 13:37:01 AC20, ER27, rF+, rC+, Ponderous 13:37:03 gee sounds great 13:37:07 the standing joke is that iron dragon hides just turn into plate armour 13:37:22 which imho is too good a joke to be ruined by an actual dragon armour 13:37:52 what do bronze dragon hides turn into 13:37:52 hm. *would* slth++++ be Excessively Silly? 13:38:20 well you don't have to display all the plusses :^) 13:38:25 just the ones that get past ER 13:38:29 (spoilers!!!) 13:38:29 Bloaxor: you do on artifacts 13:38:30 uh 13:38:38 you kind of do have to display it, yes. 13:39:11 More importantly, would anyone here use slth++++ 10 AC 15 ER shadow dragon armour that they find in V:5? 13:39:21 personally I prefer the idea of shadow dragon armour shrinking LoS radius (like ring of shadows etc) 13:39:33 I don't think I've ever worn a StormDA . . . 13:39:34 that sounds really, really strong 13:39:35 ring of shadows shrinks LOS? 13:39:43 and ring of shadows doesn't do that 13:39:45 elliptic: that sounds way more interesting. 13:39:50 robe of shadows does 13:39:59 nightstalker ds, lantern of shadows, robe of shadows, and the spell darkness 13:40:00 er, it used to I think? maybe? but like robe of night does, yes 13:40:01 I think is the full list 13:40:05 er, robe of night 13:40:35 -!- morphix0 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41:06 A unique(ish) property like shrinking LOS allows the armour to have similar stats to another armour and not feel like a clone. 13:41:18 As a second suggestion: have it add an aux drain attack 13:42:49 I am really really nervous about the idea of adding more los-shrinking effects 13:42:58 I don't know, maybe stlth++++ would play decently now that I think about it... as long as it actually gives some net positive stealth, I can see it being an interesting option for characters who have had bad stealth all game in e.g. plate armour 13:43:01 unless we changed the way they stacked 13:43:20 I don't think it would be interesting for stealth-based chars, which is what I was originally thinking about 13:44:13 PleasingFungus: they already stack poorly 13:44:17 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:35 but I sort of agree that los-shrinking isn't an effect we want much of 13:44:52 ah - my impression was that they stacked strongly (saw a screenshot of a nighstalker with a bunch of sources online) 13:44:56 the problem about 10 AC 15 ER is that, uh 13:45:00 <|amethyst> adding one more 3/4 LOS would take minimum LOS down to 1 13:45:01 stabbers who are interested in stealth 13:45:04 PleasingFungus: originally they stacked additively 13:45:06 tend to have quite low str 13:45:09 <|amethyst> right now it's 2 unless I'm miscalculating 13:45:11 |amethyst: it would be the same slot as robe of night 13:45:16 so it wouldn't affect that 13:45:18 <|amethyst> oh right 13:45:26 Bloaxor: yeah, this probably wouldn't really be for stabbers, more for characters who like stealth (which is non-qaz chars, mainly) 13:45:44 well chei stabbers are pretty good too :^) 13:45:57 chei chei chei chei CHEI CHEI CHEI CHEI 13:45:58 -- bloax 13:46:06 PleasingFungus: more for characters who are tired of having 0 stealth all game and feel like having a little bit for zot or something, yes 13:46:16 chei tabbers, chei stabbers, chei zappers 13:46:24 until we add two body armour race 13:46:27 would be very nice to have while clearing out the lungs 13:46:43 not really, stealth doesn't do much on zot:5 unless you are ninjaing 13:47:07 The fireball explodes! 13:47:09 I think stealth might actually be a net negative on zot:5 if you aren't ninjaing 13:47:15 You hear a shout! 13:47:20 because it makes monsters less predictable 13:48:01 elliptic: though it does give you a chance to prevent a monster that wanders over from offscreen from joining the fight 13:48:04 but for zot:1-4 it can help a bit for avoiding fights 13:48:11 Lasty_: you don't need stealth to do that 13:48:16 Lasty_: just step out of sight 13:48:32 Lasty_: and if you aren't stepping out of sight, you need very high stealth for it to be at all reliable 13:49:56 elliptic: I think your stealth heavy armour is a good idea! 13:49:56 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:50:02 !messages 13:50:03 (1/1) rchandra said (17h 21m 14s ago): The Random gods devwiki page talks about sharing gods online and making gods of players. How would this work for offline? 13:50:23 rchandra: like ghosts. 13:51:51 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:52:47 -!- Noom_afk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:52:52 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:16 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:18 -!- staplegun has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:27 -!- tw_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:27 -!- unpaidbi1l has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:39 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:48 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:59 elliptic: congrats on your greatest invention, the stealth heavy armour :) 13:54:30 -!- illovae has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:12 -!- kaiza has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:12 -!- Grunt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:12 -!- fortyCak1s has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:31 PleasingFungus: did I miss something? Didn't check the log or anything, too tired. 13:56:36 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:36 -!- bananaken has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:36 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:18 -!- Lantell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:19 -!- jarpiain_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:40 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:40 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:40 -!- Sizzell has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:40 -!- endou has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:40 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:41 ah, I was the one who was suggesting it - elliptic was pointing out potential problems with/alternatives to my ideas 13:58:00 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58:00 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:58:17 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:58:39 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:00 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:24 -!- jarpiain is now known as Guest36946 13:59:42 -!- ebering has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:33 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:01:54 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:59 is it plate with stealth++++++ 14:03:42 storm dragon armour with stlth++++ 14:04:19 fr +sil unrand 14:06:42 I was thinking *sil, myself 14:06:54 +sil: morgoth appears 14:06:58 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:11 !messages 14:07:12 (1/3) greensnark said (3d 4h 31m 25s ago): https://loom.shalott.org/nickmap.txt 14:07:21 !messages 14:07:22 (1/2) wheals said (3d 35m 4s ago): I noticed that in 0.16 felids no longer have an innate jump ability. I found it to be one of the most versatile parts in the character as it acted as a perfect way too counter their lack of health by offering an escape if you become surrounded too quickly. 14:07:26 !messages 14:07:27 (1/1) wheals said (2h 12m 36s ago): <+Basil> asterion degenerated into a catlobe 14:07:41 ....what 14:08:42 I think I'm just going to put the devteam nick list into the repo for now, and use that for my highlite thing 14:08:53 it's a quote from tavern 14:09:01 and then use snark's nickmap for goodplayer et al 14:09:27 wheals: what does it mean, or what thread, I guess 14:10:02 i dunno; just showering you with jump removal complaints 14:10:32 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:37 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:52 regular showers are important for good code hygeine. 14:11:58 -!- Lantell has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:58 elliptic: can I get an expanded nick list of e.g. devteam in an easy way? 14:12:23 !nick hugeterm -rm -r$ 14:12:25 Deleted -r$ from hugeterm => lexackson instar sebi jerek kyrris pfcuttle akhripin grinner tossi heteroy prospero14 izverg merle shyguy miron deathrats sanka hxy kraphead liuckan sugah midpoint palyth demongrey johan farkougg duncan russell klarki neil kaput q335r49 shaijin pigah grrr azru saegor quux dylex shiren filthyape chukamok q leibowitz slitherfritz igxfl serfuzz frobop ghallberg playings s... 14:12:52 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:54 -!- MackTheKnife has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:56 ....neil is hugeterm? 14:13:01 for shame 14:13:32 !lg devs-for-squarelos s=name 14:13:33 482 games for devs-for-squarelos: 482x elliptic 14:13:39 needs more names IMO 14:13:46 I'll get in on that. :p 14:13:52 that's actually like nearly everyone 14:14:07 1nick devs-for-circlelos kb 14:14:07 who is actually against squarelos 14:15:21 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:15:48 :crickets: 14:16:00 *chirp* *chirp* 14:16:28 Well I like the funny things that can happen in circlelos but I don't care either way. 14:16:52 leave nostalgia branch in circle los 14:17:05 done 14:18:43 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:20:07 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:09 -!- Alpha__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:21:30 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:54 PleasingFungus: by the way, the UC delay seems to have been substantially reduced in plate 14:25:21 oh, hm 14:25:27 completely eliminated at 3 aevp 14:25:38 yes 14:25:45 per my notes 14:26:01 did you see the commit? I did a writeup 14:26:53 I mostly noticed the "basically the same" gist 14:27:05 and glossed over the 3 aevp bit because I don't know what that amounts to 14:27:42 %git :/unarmed 14:27:42 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-842-g0013ec2: Pull form unarmed hit bonuses into form objects 10(2 months ago, 3 files, 30+ 62-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0013ec2e4654 14:27:50 %git :/delay 14:27:50 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-1288-g65b0b99: Darken squares in targetter even without use_animations (minmay) 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=65b0b99dfc72 14:28:03 %git :/UC 14:28:03 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1187-g1a6eb9e: Mostly de-randomize evp UC delay 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 4+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a6eb9e56ed3 14:28:07 does %git :/ ever come up with the commit that the person is looking for 14:28:13 :/ 14:28:22 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:28:42 doy: therein lies the game. 14:29:13 yeah, you have an average penalty of 0 at 3 aevp now, vs an avg penalty of... irc 1 aut? before 14:29:33 avg of 2 aut penalty at 5 evp in either old or new systems 14:29:44 *aevp 14:31:20 ??aevp 14:31:20 aevp[1/1]: Adjusted body armour evasion penalty. Affects spell success, melee accuracy. Its value is [(2/5) * er^2 / (str+3)] * [45 - armour_skill]/45. 14:31:35 huh, thought it was just ER that mattered 14:32:21 same, until I looked at the code 14:32:23 though it did make more sense 14:32:30 I would have expected a much larger uc penalty otherwise 14:33:57 So, at 18 str, 0 armour skill, you have just over 6 AEVP, resulting in a delay of about 3 AUT. 14:34:00 er wait 14:34:18 what armour are you wearing 14:34:28 oh, plate? 14:34:30 forgot to specify: plate 14:34:39 what scale is armour penalty in that code? You're dividing the penalty by 20 . . . 14:34:47 it's multiplied by 20 earlier 14:34:51 gotcha 14:34:56 so yeah, about 3 AUT 14:35:04 oh, that 20 should be constified 14:35:18 and by the time you hit 22.5 Armour skill, that'll be down to 0 AUT penalty 14:35:27 (or if you improve Str, much sooner 14:36:16 I wish I'd saved the little anydice formula I was using to run the old numbers 14:36:38 -!- warchangel has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:05 I think this is effectively a buff to UC, but I'm not really worried about it. 14:40:19 yeah it is 14:40:33 I mean, even if avg uc delay was the same, the reduction in randomness would be a buff 14:40:35 it's a buff to UC if you use heavy armor 14:40:39 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 14:40:55 Bloaxor: it's a buff to UC if you use armour heavier than robes. 14:41:14 a slight one in that case 14:41:34 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:43:44 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 14:46:18 -!- FatShack is now known as FtShkAway 14:46:59 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 14:47:20 oh, looks like xcode opengl update broke os x builds? 14:47:21 good! 14:47:36 -!- FatShack is now known as FtShkAway 14:47:37 bad, I mean bad! 14:48:08 hm? 14:48:10 gammafunk: we have seen through your charade! 14:48:17 >_> 14:48:18 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 14:48:39 * geekosaur hasn't tried tiles build in a while; corrects that 14:49:04 geekosaur: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=193285#p193285, for reference 14:49:54 it's certainly possible to build on os x at present, though I suppose I really should try building with xcode sometime 14:50:03 oh, with xcode might matter 14:50:53 imo try with xxxcode 14:51:12 Powerful tmons programmers 14:51:52 monstrous...! 14:52:12 anyway, it vaguely sounds like we might need to update to a newer sdl version? maybe? speculating wildly 14:52:18 glwt 14:52:51 totally stupid question that I can't find the answer to: is the gitorious repo public? and if so, what is the remote url? 14:53:22 https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/ 14:53:48 oh, there it is 14:53:55 I'm spoiled by github, expected it on the main project page 14:54:07 thanks :) 14:55:24 so I get a warning but no compile failure, using apple includes but sdl from macports 14:55:55 glwrapper-ogl.cc:284:9: warning: 'gluBuild2DMipmaps' is deprecated: first deprecated in OS X 10.9 - "Use glGenerateMipmap" 14:56:16 which suggests there's an SDL1 patch somewhere or something 14:56:47 seems to be a different warning than the one xaff was getting 14:56:59 well it would be, since he got an error 14:57:19 but it was regarding a different class, anyhow 14:57:19 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:35 neckro23: you don't have to be spoiled by anything to find the gitorious ui bad 14:57:54 why aren't we on github, anyway? 14:58:00 is there even a reason anymore? 14:58:00 clearly we should switch to SDL 2 when we switch to C++11 14:59:01 yeah gitorious is kind of an odd choice 14:59:19 from what i've heard it was because ais523_ really disliked github 14:59:30 yeah, i couldn't remember who it was 14:59:44 but i remember there were at least one or two people who had strong objections back in the day 15:00:09 but i don't think those people are around anymore, and i don't know how much those objections mean like 5 years later either 15:00:25 I like github as a piece of software; I don't really like them as a company 15:00:39 software? website? whichever, as a technical product. 15:00:44 yeah, sure 15:01:21 i mean, i don't think we're really losing out on all that much by not being on github, honestly 15:01:44 it just was annoying the other day when i was trying to set up travis, since it's specifically tied to github 15:01:51 ais523? 15:02:09 I suppose we wouldn't be supporting them very much just by "being on their service", since I doubt anyone's gonna fork over for premium git status or w/e for dcss. 15:02:22 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:47 ??nethack 4 15:02:48 nethack 4 ~ nethack4[1/1]: Self-claimed successor to NetHack. Shares channel with AceHack, #acehack 15:03:00 ??ais523[inconsis 15:03:01 ais523[1/1]: it's amazing how inconsistent Crawl's interface actually is, it's much worse than NetHack's 15:03:23 -!- FatShack is now known as FtShkAway 15:03:25 I happened to stumble upon him yesterday. 15:03:27 pretty cool guy 15:03:50 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:52 and that quote seems a bit dated 15:04:15 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 15:05:21 not being on github slightly hampers people like me who just want to poke around in the code and maybe fix a stupid bug 15:05:33 but nothing's stopping anyone from just uploading the repo there anyways 15:05:56 doy did make a mirror for travis iirc 15:06:06 yeah, it's not autoupdating at the moment though 15:06:14 because setting that up is irritating 15:09:24 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:09:35 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:11 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:47 <|amethyst> neckro23: why github specifically? because you already have an account there? 15:11:01 (technically you could also hand out patches) 15:11:23 well yeah I'd have to make a gitorious account or something. no big deal, which is why I said slightly 15:12:36 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:39 !nick gammafunk 15:12:40 No nick mapping for gammafunk. 15:13:25 -!- Pluie|2 is now known as Isabelle 15:13:36 <|amethyst> AIUI, when the gitorious/github decision happened the first time, github wasn't even an option 15:13:48 gammafunk, again, I do not build contrib SDL, I use a prebuilt one. I presume a patch is needed 15:13:48 nothing obvious in the Portfile, so we may indeed need a version update (if such even exists for SDL1) 15:13:48 MP has 1.2.15 15:13:49 weird 15:13:50 <|amethyst> because our project was too big for the free service 15:13:52 my password got changed 15:13:56 <|amethyst> the limits have changed 15:13:59 -!- Isabelle is now known as Pluie 15:16:44 -!- FatShack is now known as FtShkAway 15:18:50 -!- GhostSonOfGhost has quit [] 15:18:52 -!- Sharkman1231_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:19:43 remind me: how many different colors does Console mode make available 15:20:36 ??glyph 15:20:37 glyph ~ glyphs[1/2]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html — Generated with the script http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 15:20:43 Lasty_: check out that url to see them 15:20:55 ah, thanks 15:21:49 Lasty_: there's also enum colours in defines.h 15:21:52 15. That's fewer than I thought. 15:22:14 we also have ETC_COLOUR 15:22:16 S 15:22:22 not 256, rip 15:22:24 ah, maybe that's why I was thining 22 15:22:28 which change every turn 15:23:00 <|amethyst> every redraw 15:23:06 yeah, every redraw 15:24:07 Lasty_: what do you want them for? 15:24:33 (btw, I think too many colours can be bad, because you stop to use them wisely: I love Brogue but I think their visuals are not good) 15:24:44 *stop using 15:25:19 dpeg: I'm just trying to inform a tile user what restrictions they need to consider when displaying info for their proposed god. 15:25:40 <|amethyst> ah, things like god altars are usually ETC_ colours 15:25:43 Lasty_: I see. Yes, pity about colour overlap for gods. 15:25:59 |amethyst: this is re: a hunter god proposal that involves "marking" targets 15:26:03 <|amethyst> ahh 15:26:15 and possibly losing piety for letting monsters out of sight after they've spent "enough" time in LOS 15:26:29 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:27 Lasty_: that proposal requires a lot of player overhead 15:27:35 <|amethyst> changing colours of a monster to show info is not good 15:27:46 <|amethyst> since that loses information like "this is an orc priest" 15:27:50 |amethyst: true. Could use branding for that. 15:28:02 <|amethyst> changing background colour could work, but you're very limited there 15:28:06 <|amethyst> eight possible colours 15:28:18 <|amethyst> (what dpeg refers to by "branding") 15:28:37 dpeg: precisely. 15:28:41 <|amethyst> and then you have to consider how it interacts with things like distracted/sleeping brand 15:29:07 right, so I was raising the issue to the proposer, and describing to them the tools they have to work with 15:29:16 since they had never used console 15:29:20 booo! 15:29:22 and thought it might be possible to use icons, borders ,etc 15:29:32 :) 15:30:48 fr: tiles-only gods 15:31:05 -!- fireprfHydra has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:32:17 Tilor, the Beautiful and Slow. 15:32:18 give them all the GDD proposals 15:33:24 Lasty_: saw your comments in the thread just now. They're spot on 15:33:31 thanks 15:34:24 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:48 wheals: you wouldn't...! 15:36:17 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:16 -!- mong has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:42:39 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:44:27 -!- aaaaaaaa has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:05 ??spell hunger 15:46:06 spell hunger[1/3]: Casting a spell lowers your nutrition by an amount varying with the spell's level: (1) 50, (2) 95, (3) 160, (4) 250, (5) 350, (6) 550, (7) 700, (8) 860, (9) 1000. This amount is lowered by the product of your Intelligence and Spellcasting. (For rods, your Evocation skill * 10, with a minimum of 5.) 15:46:31 those are pretty silly numbers overall 15:46:52 %git :/unger 15:46:53 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1314-g3d54b91: Tweak spell hunger numbers 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d54b915ee80 15:47:21 oh, huh, (8) was wrong? 15:47:58 !learn edit spell_hunger[1] s/: .*1000./: (1) 50, (2) 100, (3) 150, (4) 250, (5) 400, (6) 550, (7) 700, (8) 850, (9) 1000./ 15:47:59 spell hunger[1/3]: Casting a spell lowers your nutrition by an amount varying with the spell's level: (1) 50, (2) 100, (3) 150, (4) 250, (5) 400, (6) 550, (7) 700, (8) 850, (9) 1000. This amount is lowered by the product of your Intelligence and Spellcasting. (For rods, your Evocation skill * 10, with a minimum of 5.) 15:48:29 fling icicle nerf 15:48:42 oh, its level 5 actually 15:48:55 guess it wont be so weird now to see fireball nearly hungerless and haste with a lot of #s 15:51:10 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 15:52:28 ya that's pretty much it 15:53:52 ??metamorphosis card 15:53:53 metamorphosis card[1/1]: Transforms you based on card power. Power 0 gives spider form, ice form, or bat form. Power 1 gives statue form or blade hands. Power 2 gives lichform or dragon form. Note that lichform from this source will not anger the good gods, but you must still watch out for the unarmed brands of spider (poison) and lich (draining). 15:54:06 hmm 15:57:12 oh how did that go on your ghoul 15:57:15 i guess nothing happens 15:57:19 yeah 15:57:42 you can cancel the form, but i still think its not a very interesting card for most characters 15:58:24 i had quite a few unarmed nemelex dudes but that was before metamorphosis was in standard nem decks 16:00:09 barring that "meta grants UC" thing, I think spider and ice form shouldn't be in it 16:00:24 not sure what to replace them with though 16:00:59 -!- grisamentum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:01:38 i think dragon form is a thing now 16:01:41 er hydra form 16:01:45 got my D confused 16:02:49 -!- Umbreoni has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:02:57 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:04:32 that might be excessive for power 0 16:07:04 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:07:27 sorry i meant its in the card already 16:07:29 i think its power 2 16:08:21 huh 16:08:56 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: _Jordan_] 16:09:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:12 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:42 -!- mong has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:17:00 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:00 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:00 -!- siepu_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:00 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:18:15 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:15 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 16:18:15 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 16:19:09 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:25:08 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:15 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:50 hmm (L12 DrWz) (D:11) 16:26:53 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:29:02 !crashlog hmm 16:29:03 6. hmm, XL12 DrWz, T:26140 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hmm/crash-hmm-20141015-212650.txt 16:29:13 hmm 16:29:26 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:32 something in io 16:35:01 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:39:34 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 16:41:51 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:20 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:52 we had another one of those 16:46:53 the other day 16:47:49 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:35 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:56:00 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:13 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57:52 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:59:40 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:58 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:00:09 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 17:01:04 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:37 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:06:15 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:09:44 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1321-g7e4bc64: Remove a misleading monspeak line. 10(39 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e4bc641cc6b 17:12:05 I'm pretty sure Ru said I'd be given the choice of one of many options in Arcana sacrifice, yet he chose for me. 17:13:01 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:30 -!- hauzer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:34 Even if it's "technically" not literally wrong, it could probably be worded a little less ambiguous. 17:14:45 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:34 for example "Ru will offer you a SINGLE option from one of X,Y,Z" rather than "Ru will offer you the choice of X,Y,Z" 17:20:05 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:21:17 <|amethyst> xFleury: what is the message in question? 17:21:23 <|amethyst> where is it I mean? 17:21:43 When Ru offered me the three sacrifice options, I hit "!" to read the descriptions. 17:22:05 The description of the one sacrifice led me to believe I would be given the choice of 4-5 options from that particular sacrifice. 17:22:09 Instead Ru chose for me. 17:22:17 <|amethyst> are you sure it was arcana? 17:22:19 <|amethyst> Sacrifice Arcana 17:22:19 <|amethyst> Adherents who choose to sacrifice their arcana lose the ability to use certain 17:22:22 <|amethyst> schools of magic. Any magic that includes a sacrificed school cannot be cast. 17:22:25 <|amethyst> Those magic skills cannot be trained. 17:22:28 <|amethyst> If you make this sacrifice, your powers granted by Ru will become stronger in 17:22:31 <|amethyst> proportion to the value of the sacrifice, and you may gain new powers as well. 17:22:34 <|amethyst> Sacrifices cannot be taken back. 17:22:37 <|amethyst> This ability costs: nothing. 17:22:50 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-1320-gb5a7ef2 (34) 17:23:20 It listed options, so I must be wrong about it being Arcana 17:23:40 <|amethyst> ah, I see 17:23:49 <|amethyst> Essence and Health 17:23:59 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:24:49 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:55 <|amethyst> !tell Lasty xFleury pointed out that the descs for sac essence and health make it sound like players get to pick which subsacrifice they get 17:24:56 |amethyst: OK, I'll let lasty know. 17:25:41 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:25:53 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 17:26:38 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:29:02 <|amethyst> When was the last time Orc could appear on D:3 ? 17:29:06 <|amethyst> pre-stone soup? 17:34:08 -!- pet_loli has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:06 !crashlog Surtr 17:36:06 1. Surtr, XL5 DsFE, T:2302 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.15/Surtr/crash-Surtr-20141010-113912.txt 17:36:43 !crashlog hmm 17:36:45 6. hmm, XL12 DrWz, T:26140 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/hmm/crash-hmm-20141015-212650.txt 17:37:02 !tell wheals Does !crashlog surtr look like the same error to you as !crashlog hmm? 17:37:03 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 17:37:13 !lg surtr s=src 17:37:14 One game for surtr: cdo 17:37:22 !lm hmm crash x=src 17:37:22 <|amethyst> Surtr's is in close(), hmm's in unlink() 17:37:23 6. [2014-10-15 21:26:50] [src=cdo] hmm the Thaumaturge (L12 DrWz of Vehumet) (D:11) 17:37:27 both cdo 17:40:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:00 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:33 -!- syllogism_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:33 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:43 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:45 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 17:50:21 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:53:34 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:54:21 !tell edlothiol thanks for the advice 17:54:22 checkers: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 17:56:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:55 how is the server coming, checkers? 18:04:47 -!- Palyth has quit [] 18:06:05 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:17 I'm sure everything will 18:06:18 !glasses 18:06:19 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 18:06:19 check out 18:06:20 :) 18:08:19 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:10:10 !glasses 18:10:11 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 18:11:12 johnstein: i think it's just ready now :D 18:11:46 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:12:15 as in, the hacky current one. I'm taking a holiday this weekend but I'll try to start coordinating a launch next week and get a date to launch with a fresh Docker-built version by end of month 18:12:54 checkers: Are you publishing your Dockerfile? 18:12:58 That sounds really handy 18:14:03 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:14:21 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:14:25 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:08 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:08 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:57 oooh Docker! 18:16:19 I definitely would like to check that out 18:17:45 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 18:18:31 PleasingFungus: Hyu kontinue puttink on you faintly hummink rink mail. (5x) 18:18:36 spelling error! 18:19:00 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:19:32 where? everything looks right to me. 18:19:34 :p 18:19:37 "you"? 18:19:39 greensnark: i will! 18:19:39 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:55 who do I poke to get my patches to trunk webserver/ committed? 18:20:01 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:37 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:03 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:19 -!- varmin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:58 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:24:43 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25:02 ??test 18:25:18 sequell gone byebye 18:25:25 [15 23:22] * Sequell has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 18:25:38 i was trying to fix an entry and sequell refused to 18:25:39 yep, I can see in my client as well 18:25:42 also varmin, so possibly a host issue 18:25:45 and then he died. 18:26:04 [PATCH] webserver: Add support for -dir 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9052 by chequers 18:26:15 checkers: either gammafunk or ed, probably 18:27:05 -!- CacoS has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:39 Upgrading OS on the box, Sequell will be down for at least 15 min 18:27:48 More if the upgrade goes poorly :P 18:28:30 * dpeg sends greensnark oil. 18:28:36 &rc 18:28:45 oh dang 18:28:48 just as you say that 18:28:50 What do I do with the oil 18:28:57 greensnark: if something needs oiling! 18:29:10 I'd have to ship it to Germany :) 18:29:12 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:29:14 That's where the server is 18:29:32 * dpeg sends greensnark long-range whip. 18:29:36 i see that smoke on hit is supposed to be a good new xom effect 18:29:44 it's certainly not bad, but it seems that xom smoke doesn't block los 18:29:57 ackack: just for fun, then? 18:30:00 is it supposed to? 18:30:03 yes i'm not sure 18:30:11 PleasingFungus: thanks 18:30:14 not a big deal if so but i was curious if that was the intended behavior 18:31:09 ackack: might well be, some people are afraid of making Xom abusable 18:35:56 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:14 -!- alefury|2 has quit [] 18:36:31 * geekosaur belatedly sends greensnark beer 18:36:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:37:16 !cheers greensnark 18:37:20 !beer greensnark 18:37:21 rip 18:37:24 yeah rip 18:37:35 -!- CacoS has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:42 no beer, no fun, eh? 18:38:19 !send dpeg fun 18:38:25 (rip dpeg) 18:38:26 I won't accept fun. 18:38:37 !death dpeg 18:38:50 * dpeg is death proof! 18:39:19 dpeg stands defiantly in death's doorway! 18:39:25 however, not sleep resistant 18:39:29 (the d in dpeg stands for defiant) 18:39:44 the d stand for dumb, most of the time :) 18:39:47 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleeeep] 18:40:32 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:47:16 !learn add dpeg the d stands for dumb, most of the time :) 18:47:20 oh 18:47:21 right 18:47:21 rip 18:49:41 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:11 ackack: are you sure it's a xom smoke thing, or just not enough tiles of it? 18:50:16 takes two tiles of smoke to block los usuall 18:50:18 !send PleasingFungus smoke 18:50:27 pretty sure it's a xom smoke thing 18:50:31 i should have taken a screenshot 18:50:32 -!- greensnark has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:34 but i'm sure it will happen again 18:53:12 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 18:54:12 PleasingFungus: i have some smoke right now if you want to look at cbro 18:54:26 two tiles of smoke due south of me that i can see through 18:55:28 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:37 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 18:56:40 yes, its not smoke, just fun xom clouds 18:56:49 happened to me several times, i assume its intentional 18:57:03 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:00:08 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:26 Grunt: I hope panlord-pursuit gets made into a popular board game 19:00:51 gammafunk: the prospects of that are 19:00:52 trivial 19:00:53 at best 19:00:57 if it does get merged, it's clearly the next release title 19:01:20 I won't even allow discussion 19:01:22 I think I would at least land the first and third commits. 19:01:39 I want to get mon-spell-slots done first though :) 19:01:40 %git panlord-pursuit 19:01:40 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1292-g419b44d: Pursuing panlords bring an entourage with them (PleasingFungus). 10(2 days ago, 3 files, 74+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=419b44d20e54 19:01:47 too bad there's not "first" 19:01:48 %git panlord-pursuit^^ 19:01:48 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1290-gf29f6dc: Let the major panlords chase the player through Pan. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 60+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f29f6dc7afbc 19:01:51 ^ 19:02:06 yeah that seems find for sure 19:02:11 the marking part is a bit iffy 19:02:18 (clearly I should also apply that behaviour to Mennas) 19:02:32 (only if Mennas isn't in the main dungeon anywhere...) 19:02:35 no reason why not I guess, imo he should be 19:02:40 like powered up in pan/hell 19:02:43 MegaMennas 19:02:50 you know, from the piety 19:03:07 MennasZilla 19:03:18 Holy dragon-angel 19:03:22 (YOU GOT EUDEMON BLADE) 19:03:26 Again, I have 5 pages of lore about this 19:03:46 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:48 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 36.0a1/20141014030201]] 19:05:49 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:05:56 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 19:06:06 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:52 |amethyst: Do you see any problem with the general idea of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9052 19:09:21 one problem is that it should probably go in webtiles-changes (and use TOML) and that it needs a fallback if the dir_path isn't in the rc 19:13:04 checkers: I think the second patch of 0009047 is obviated in webtiles-changes, and you should check out that branch in terms of cleaning up the config and your python3 cleanups probably 19:13:05 gammafunk: |amethyst: the fallback should be to default to '.' (which is crawl's built-in behaviour, if I read files.cc correctly) 19:13:32 the cosmetics stuff I'm less worried about, they're more a "while I'm here" type thing 19:13:34 checkers: I mean if the server admin doesn't have dir_path specified at all in their rc 19:13:48 because people have existing rcs and don't merge in the repo one 19:14:00 ah. yes, I will update it with a code level default 19:14:11 checkers: but yeah the other propblem is we're moving to TOML for config :p 19:14:25 I'd kind of recommend checking out webtiles-changes and looking at that config 19:14:37 it uses TOML so the server can be reconfigured on the fly 19:15:13 currently we have to restart for config.py changes; in webtiles-changes this file goes away, has an analogue that just defines some convenience features, and the actual config is stored in TOML format 19:15:22 but your dir_path option would still be good to have for that 19:15:28 %git webtiles-changes 19:15:28 07edlothiol02 * 0.15-a0-2343-g61e331d: Webtiles: Use TOML instead of JSON for config. 10(4 weeks ago, 8 files, 648+ 195-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61e331d53eaa 19:15:50 this is basically edlothiol's branch, since he's our Tiles dev for the most part 19:16:02 yeah that commit right there is the relevant one, actually 19:17:03 I do also dislike the from module import * stuff, but I'm not sure if he still has that 19:17:26 I will provide a version of my two functional changes for that branch 19:17:37 is the goal to merge that branch in the next few weeks? 19:17:46 oh, uh 19:18:57 checkers: I'm not actually sure if edlothiol has a timeline; |amethyst would like to convert cszo by the winter break in Dec/Jan or before 19:19:14 probably based on what edlothiol has at that time, but I'm not sure what future changes he has in store by then 19:19:20 I have two things for it I want to get in 19:20:08 <|amethyst> I'd rather not pass -dir if it wasn't specified 19:20:18 yeah, fair point 19:20:38 ok, I'll change that behaviour 19:21:13 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:29 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:40 so fine, we will in fact remove Torpor snails 19:21:42 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:21:54 nooooooooo 19:21:58 !remove gammafunk 19:22:01 hah! 19:22:04 UNREMOVALBE 19:22:06 er 19:22:12 -!- gammafunk was kicked from ##crawl-dev by Grunt [removed!] 19:22:15 muhahahahahahahaha 19:22:21 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:22:26 <3 19:22:27 brutal.... 19:22:33 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:22:51 PleasingFungus: the correct response is 19:22:51 quite powerful 19:22:53 dang...... 19:23:12 when I get my Grunt devkill, it will be sweet 19:23:30 beware the voice cost 19:25:04 !silence Bloaxor 19:25:08 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:25:10 gammafunk: |amethyst: updated https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9052 19:25:19 !!_!! 19:26:01 -!- Cannonbait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:19 One wonders whether Grunt uses his ops powers wisely 19:26:26 One wonders indeed!!! 19:26:47 this is the point where grunt bans everyone 19:26:59 |amethyst: do you see any reason not to merge checkers' config tweak? 19:27:15 I realize we'll be switching to webtiles-changes eventually (soon) 19:27:18 btw, what would be nice with the TOML config is if we can have an include.d dir. That would make adding new games programmatically sooooo much easier 19:28:20 hrm, I suppose that's a fair point, but I'm not a server admin; it is a bit of code complexity 19:29:03 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1322-gefb73c1: Clarify two sacrifice descriptions. 10(89 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efb73c169bb4 19:29:08 |amethyst, xFleury: ^ 19:29:22 I'll write the patch :) 19:29:34 how do you want patches for the webtiles-changes branch? 19:29:47 Developers are given the chance to acccept or deny one change... 19:30:33 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:17 man, i dunno why you like this TOML format, it's ugly :P 19:32:50 fr TOME format 19:32:59 What is the tome format 19:33:13 checkers: I'm all in favor of making new versions easier to update 19:33:14 greensnark: full of powergaming? :) 19:33:18 on the server 19:33:44 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 19:34:10 -!- HonestMoneyLende has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:34:56 I've been meaning to at least semi-automate it 19:35:23 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 19:35:30 but my plan for 0.16 will likely be $ git log --oneline|grep 0.15 19:35:45 and plod through the files one by one 19:35:54 s/plod/plog/ 19:36:02 then forget to add the inprogress directory 19:36:11 then forget to kick inotify 19:36:13 johnstein: what do you mean by that commandline? 19:36:39 the git one? 19:36:42 if it's what I think, you may like git tag -l '0.15*' 19:36:54 I haven't learned tags yet :p 19:37:22 I forgot to type the $ git show SHA step 19:37:43 checkers: Well I think edliothol chose it because it's bettern than json, and we need something like that other than python code 19:37:52 and we don't want to roll our own config format 19:38:32 and actually it seems not ugly to me? 19:38:35 looks pretty concise 19:38:46 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 19:38:47 I haven't used enough json to know how much uglier TOML is 19:39:04 TOML is generally nicer to people who don't know how crazy strict json is 19:39:04 it seemed just as ugly/pretty to me 19:39:14 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1323-gd026c7f: Scale mail 11->10 EVP 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d026c7f0ae2f 19:39:16 json, strict.....? 19:39:16 yeah, I think json is bad, but did you consider yaml? 19:39:19 <|amethyst> json doesn't allow comments 19:39:25 PleasingFungus: yay 19:39:27 checkers: yaml is very prone to whitespace breakage 19:39:27 <|amethyst> that makes it kind of bad for a config format 19:39:29 I've heard a lot of yaml hate 19:39:37 y problem with toml is that the sequence type (eg for games) is not actually a sequence 19:39:44 So, Tukima's Dance weapons and Pikel's slaves aren't turning hostile on Sac Love. I'm thinking I need to add an "update attitude" function to handle_monster(), but before I do, I thought I should check w/ y'all to see if there's a better approach. 19:40:02 you will also need to deal with kirke's pigmen 19:40:12 yes, them too 19:40:16 * Grunt read "pikemen" 19:40:50 benefit of my approach: I can remove the daction. Downside: it means way, way more freqient checks, mostly u nnecessarily. 19:41:27 I think I wouldn't be overly concerned about the 'efficiency' here, tbh 19:41:40 correctness seems like a larger concern 19:41:40 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 19:41:51 what's in the handle_monster func right now? 19:41:54 s/freqient/frequent/ 19:42:02 PleasingFungus: all of monster ai 19:42:06 hahaha 19:42:08 yeah 19:42:13 not a tight fast loop 19:43:01 !tell wheals %git 159780b 19:43:06 oh 19:43:11 03Grunt02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1058-g159780b: Move phantasmal warrior abil blink close to a spell slot (wheals). 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=159780bb54e7 19:43:13 dang 19:43:14 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:15 this is hard to get used to :( 19:43:45 !seen Grunt 19:43:53 Sorry gammafunk, that man is dead. 19:44:05 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:44:06 dang...! 19:44:09 And we use the term "man" and "dead" loosely. 19:44:25 secretly, grunt is an elf 19:44:30 The truth of Grunt's awful form can never be revealed 19:44:45 except that it is a level 9 spell 19:44:51 You cannot grasp the true form of Grunt's attack! 19:45:26 Grunt: Have you won Tome4 btw 19:45:39 gammafunk: I have never played TOME4 (or earlier TOME or) 19:45:50 er 19:45:50 ... 19:45:53 Haha 19:45:56 greensnark: you're not gammafunk :( 19:46:03 (you're both brown in my irssi right now!!!) 19:46:21 I remember cbus had trouble with Gretell and my nick 19:46:31 ??grunt[4 19:46:34 oh 19:46:34 hehe, one-way converstaions 19:46:35 gammasnark in a greenfunk? 19:46:47 grunt[4/x]: Is not Gretell, despite what many zealous tabbers seem to think. 19:46:47 gammasnark 19:46:48 Level 9 Form: roiling chaos. Renders you immune to damage and healing. Each action you lose 5% of your max health and deal that much irresistable damage to all monsters in LOS. Only actions allowed are walking and leaving the form. 19:46:52 Postgres is taking inordinately long to build indexes... 19:47:55 Lasty: is that a serious suggestion 19:48:03 I think that's from TOME4? 19:48:05 o 19:48:10 but I could be wrong! 19:48:17 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1324-g5a7b329: Define a constant in player::attack_delay() 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5a7b3294dfb3 19:48:19 I am not a tomespert (tome expert) 19:48:24 Probably not. I like the thought, but I doubt it'll stand up to scrutiny. 19:48:32 heh 19:50:22 it sounds pretty awful, as far as ideas go 19:51:10 gammafunk: we like to encourage bad ideas, though, don't we? 19:51:17 gammafunk: or is it just my bad ideas specifically? <_< 19:51:28 It could kill the player, and we should encourage that too. 19:51:29 we carefully filter Grunt's bad ideas 19:51:47 if there was to be a lvl 9 tmut spell, I mean, that's going in the right direction insofar as it's not a melee/uc spell - I think 7 is the very highest that's reasonable for that kind of transmutations (and 7 might be a little too high) 19:51:57 beyond that I will respect lasty's wishes and not comment 19:52:05 I think death door is broken enough for "immune-to-damage", and we don't really want more of that in the game tbh 19:53:07 -!- slitherrrr has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:53 gammafunk stands up defiantly for death's doorway! 19:55:45 * gammafunk slips on a snozzcucumber! gammafunk falls out of death's doorway! 19:55:54 rip... 19:56:39 -!- slitherrr has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:59:58 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:38 -!- deer has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:48 hrm, wondering if I should put this highlight thing in webtiles-changes or webtiles-changes-score 20:00:51 I guess the latter 20:01:12 -!- FtShkAway is now known as FatShack 20:01:58 blerg, removing a DACTION breaks save compatibility. Time for a new tag 20:02:16 Lasty: tag, you're it~! 20:02:50 server_admins = ["gammafunk"] 20:02:53 the way it should be 20:04:10 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:42 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:07:02 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:21 So, that approach works more or less, but it gives weird results w/ the tukima's weapon, since it's programmed to only attack the weapon's previous owner. So, the weapon circles the owner confused and attacking no one. 20:11:17 I suppose that's sort of the best outcome aside from banning you from casting them spell. 20:11:46 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:24 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:18 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:06 hrm, wouldn't outright banning of the spell be best? 20:16:38 you do outright ban use of evocations with sac artifice, after all 20:17:04 oh, but I guess, you have the other things that are affected by sac love to consider 20:17:16 all those summons 20:17:20 -!- Wahaha has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:29 yeah 20:17:34 right now only Enslave is banned 20:17:38 because it does nothing 20:17:58 There might be times when it makes sense to Tukima's a monster to disarm it even if it makes a hostile weapon 20:18:27 I could put some toggle in the Tukima's AI that doesn't lock it on a monster if it hates you, I suppose 20:18:50 yeah, and I was going to say how exploits are possible with summons by summoning hostiles and exploiting foe ratio to avoid damage from other monsters, but that's possible without sac love 20:18:54 since you can just hit your summon 20:19:37 well 20:19:42 harder with e.g. butterflies 20:19:47 since it's kind of hard to hit them and not kill them 20:19:54 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:01 PleasingFungus: cast butterflies, wear 2 rings of fire and lantern of shadows, cast refrigeration 20:20:02 well yeah, but spammals, ice beast etc for later game 20:20:09 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:13 oh wait they actually have 1 HP now 20:20:22 ruined by me 20:20:23 they used to have more than that! 20:20:26 fuck you! 20:20:40 hahahaha 20:20:43 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 20:21:07 I will ruin all of crawl, starting with the butterflies and going from there 20:21:14 PleasingFungus: torment them :p 20:21:21 I guess that'd work 20:21:24 probably? 20:21:29 unfortunately, torment 20:21:36 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:21:46 I have a small ring swapping interface improvement suggestion 20:22:01 It would be nice if instead of p - ringa E - ringb it would be < - ringa and > - ringb 20:22:06 Lasty: yeah, it seems that making the tukima weapon target the player in that same ai block that makes it target the previous owner seems the best approach 20:22:09 I think I'd prefer to keep Tukima's as disarming the monster but then making the weapon go after you 20:22:11 and I know it shows the < > keys below already but it would be better if they replaced the letters. 20:22:11 Because right now it's easier to just press the letter instead of checking which ring is < and which is > 20:22:25 should be easy to add a check for e.g. sac love 20:22:28 yeah 20:24:12 I'm open to the idea that the pure summoning spells should summon nothing under Sac Love. "Nothing responds to your call." On the other hand, summoning angry things is hilarious. 20:24:30 fr: Summon Angry Things 20:24:39 (otherwise known as BiA????) 20:24:42 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:01 hrm, if it were going to do that, seems probably better to ban those spells 20:25:04 summoning nothing is probably the least abusable option; def less flavourful, tho 20:25:43 likewise spellbanning 20:25:46 would also like if that could happen for shadow creatures on branches with no monster lists as well, if those still exist 20:25:55 used to be the case for labs 20:26:04 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:06 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:26:07 sac love makes monsters hate you so much that they no longer care about hurting allies with their spells 20:26:08 done 20:26:09 or maybe just fix said branches to always hae monsters lists 20:27:36 kind of interesting idea 20:27:49 minmay: that would definitely make sac love scarier. Exploiting monsters' desires not to hurt eachother is pretty good. 20:27:51 lots of Hilarious Antics as a result 20:28:22 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:00 The vault guard feels extremely hateful! The vault guard goes berserk! 20:29:03 though exploiting their disregard for hurting each other probably is exploitable too 20:29:36 Well I guess the problem is that sac love is maybe not all that scary a sacrifice currently? You do lose the evocables, but ally spells are not going to be a thing for someone who sacs love 20:29:50 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:55 I think the main thing is the evocables 20:29:55 <|amethyst> Wahaha: so you mean, instead of: 20:30:07 -!- Big_guy has quit [] 20:30:13 <|amethyst> Wahaha: < or K - a +4 ring of dexterity; > or D - a +5 ring of intelligence 20:30:15 Yeah, and while that's a significant loss, it's kind of an overlap with the much scarier sac. artifice 20:30:17 Sac love is trivial in my opinion 20:30:18 <|amethyst> Wahaha: you would prefer just: 20:30:26 so the no foe ratio seems actually kid of cool 20:30:27 <|amethyst> Wahaha: < - a +4 ring of dexterity; > - a +5 ring of intelligence 20:30:32 *kind 20:30:34 -!- MgDark_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:39 but I don't know how weird it would be in practice 20:31:17 i feel like it has the potential to be exploitable in the other direction, but it's hard to tell 20:31:32 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:32:35 |amethyst: yes, maybe as an alternate option. I guess I never really tried to use < > but that's because the letter is right next to the ring in the text while < > are far away 20:32:51 doy: I'm having a hard time thinking of any practical examples 20:33:12 Losing access to all forms of allies is (at least IMO) nasty. You lose /enslave, |swarm, |shadows, ?summoning, all summoning spells, sack of spiders, box of beasts, horn of geryon, and all the elemental evokers get significantly worse. 20:33:21 And a few random vaults get scarier. 20:33:43 |amethyst: I just visually filter out everything that isn't 'k - ring of protection' 20:33:52 bh: why would saving and loading use protobufs 20:34:06 <|amethyst> Wahaha: I'm not sure I understand the problem 20:34:08 IMO Sac Love is priced about right at 16 piety right now 20:34:11 even if you have monsters completely ignore other monsters in their path, sure you could make centaurs kill each other but for that you'd have to keep multiple centaurs on the screen instead of one at a time so... 20:34:21 <|amethyst> Wahaha: you want to use < > but you find yourself actually using the letter because it's easier to do so? 20:34:46 The letter is more noticeable because it's the closest thing to the ring 20:36:05 to check whether the ring is < or > I have to skip over the letter and look further away. It's not a big deal but it's a potential interface improvement. I would actually use < > if they replaced the letter 20:39:20 <|amethyst> perhaps the default foe_ratio should just be 0 for all enemies regardless of sac love 20:39:46 <|amethyst> I was under the impression that the intent behind foe_ratio was to make monsters harder by having them not kill one another 20:39:55 <|amethyst> if it's not serving that goal and is in fact working against it... 20:40:16 I would definitely say it mostly makes things easier rather than harder 20:40:37 yeah, being able to block monster fireballs and whatnot is really useful 20:40:40 a good rule is that "fewer enemies hitting you = better" 20:40:56 If I wrote code for an option that can be set in the rc that makes rings work that way, would it get accepted easily, or do new options have to be significantly important enough to be added? 20:41:19 see: tile_player_tile for critically important rcfile addition 20:42:30 nrook: hm? 20:42:36 because structure 20:42:54 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:56 bh: is the current saving code a pain in the ass for any particular reason 20:43:09 nrook: it's exceedingly fragile 20:43:25 save is probably the most fragile part of the entire codebase 20:43:52 what do you mean by "fragile", exactly? 20:43:56 does it break often? or is it just that it's a pain in the ass to remember whether you need those #IFDEFs 20:44:09 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1325-g0f747f5: Pull god_pitch messages into Form objects 10(2 minutes ago, 5 files, 80+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f747f52cdd8 20:44:11 <|amethyst> when we've had breakage it hasn't typically been because someone marshalled and unmarshalled things in the wrong order 20:44:17 my experience with tags.cc is that it's been the most stable & dependable part of the codebase, honestly. 20:44:30 <|amethyst> one thing protobufs would help with is making it impossible to ever remove an enum 20:44:34 <|amethyst> s/enum/enumerator/ 20:44:46 <|amethyst> removing or reordering enumerators has been a problem 20:44:51 ENUM_BE_GONE 20:45:01 ENUM_REMOVE_ME 20:45:05 protobufs would reduce enum confusion by making it easy to "remove" them without breaking backward compat yeah 20:45:09 ENUM_UNUSED 20:45:19 !source mg 20:45:35 read: tile_player_tile is critical!!! 20:45:40 nrook: the other advantage I see is that we'd have a structured save file 20:45:46 rather than "whatever tags.cc spits out" 20:45:51 <|amethyst> um 20:45:51 <|amethyst> we have a structured save file 20:45:57 that's an aesthetic advantage 20:46:01 <|amethyst> the individual chunks might not be so structured... 20:46:04 <|amethyst> but the file itself is 20:46:17 I think bh might mean a structure expressed as data, rather than as code? 20:46:22 gammafunk: no facetiousness here, i wholly agree. 20:46:34 that is, a structure defined by a config file type thing, rather than by a series of ifs and functions 20:46:36 blerg, where the fuck is mg defined 20:46:37 read: have you seen my rc? it's....something 20:46:37 PleasingFungus: right. nrook is correct 20:46:44 nrook knows nothing!!!! 20:46:48 unless I agree with him 20:46:56 haven't decided yet 20:47:02 i've been told so, gammafunk. mine has 58 lines so far of ifelse for combo = tile. 20:47:05 I disagree with PleasingFungus. 20:47:07 but apparently yours is crazier 20:47:08 if you disagree with me you have to push my merge request 20:47:10 that's the rule 20:47:11 <|amethyst> Wahaha: If it's a complete patch (including the docs) I don't see a problem 20:47:12 * PleasingFungus shrinks into a corn-cob 20:47:13 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:47:15 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:17 haha, glad I'm not the only one 20:47:24 !death cob 20:47:28 <|amethyst> Wahaha: some people are opposed to adding options, but IMO they can go back to Gnome 20:47:29 was fun learning some more lua 20:47:40 |amethyst: dang..... 20:47:57 |amethyst is obviously a repressed Gnome lover 20:48:01 my suspicion is that if a fairy came down and made crawl use protobufs it would improve the codebase 20:48:12 it is not clear to me that it is worth your time to be that fairy 20:48:17 (I'm still bemused by the general reaction to a GNOME bug report of mine a couple of years ago.) 20:48:23 nrook: stop being right 20:48:32 bh: 1learn add nrook 20:48:33 read: mine has functions to randomly choose a tileset every N turns, where a tileset can be a random set of e.g. killer klowns, or a tile progression like boulder beetles 20:48:39 <|amethyst> "oh, my subpixel rendering is wrong? Let me change that op... where did it go?" 20:48:53 haha that's wonderful gammafunk 20:49:02 I mean it's open source, so if you want to do it (and it doesn't make anything worse) go for it 20:49:04 oh man.... rolling beetle tiles i never thought of that.. 20:49:09 I need to break it out maybe make it a bit more general, and go full HilariousDeathArtist I guess 20:49:16 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:49:16 |amethyst: Do you like systemd? :) 20:49:16 gammafunk: hi Cerebov... 20:49:16 read: in progression! that's important 20:49:27 <|amethyst> greensnark: haven't used it 20:49:28 (hmm, snark bait) 20:49:29 is systemd the one that logs a bunch and crashes the kernel 20:49:45 nrook: it sounds like a big, boring, ultimately helpful change 20:49:59 bh: crashing the kernel is helpful??? :) 20:50:00 <|amethyst> greensnark: probably wouldn't mind it that much, given that I've been using hal and dbus and all that crap for years 20:50:11 |amethyst: What's your desktop env now? 20:50:13 it might be a lot more interesting to add support for aperiodic tilings 20:50:16 greensnark: what are your thoughts on systemd? 20:50:22 <|amethyst> greensnark: certainly SysV init is a terrible holdover from the 80s 20:50:32 Grunt: I haven't generally had trouble with it 20:50:46 But I don't mess with it much 20:50:59 <|amethyst> greensnark: sawfish and gnome-panel 20:51:05 since moving back to linux, I've been too lazy for anything other than ubuntu/unity, but I guess I should branch out 20:51:07 |amethyst: Nice! 20:51:09 wow, sawfish 20:51:12 that takes me back 20:51:12 |amethyst: <3 20:51:33 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/config/sawfish-rc.html 20:51:36 hopefully lots of custom lisp for sawfish on |amethyst ...haha 20:51:47 <|amethyst> not really that much 20:51:56 |amethyst: xemacs :( 20:51:58 <|amethyst> my keybindings are all in 'custom' 20:52:01 <|amethyst> Grunt: I use it for email 20:52:09 <|amethyst> Grunt: haven't gotten around to switching to mutt 20:52:13 god, that black background with blue comments... 20:52:15 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:16 !send mutt |amethyst 20:52:18 Sending |amethyst to mutt. 20:52:19 Sequell!!!!! 20:52:26 !tell edlothiol I don't see the pre_options in the new TOML format for webtiles-changes (added at 7861d58). example here: https://github.com/jmbjr/dbro-dgamelaunch-config/blob/dorf/config.json 20:52:27 johnstein: OK, I'll let edlothiol know. 20:52:38 How do you read it |amethyst , how do you read it... 20:52:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I don't read that page often 20:52:54 :) 20:52:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I look at the real files with my editor 20:53:11 !tell wheals %git 159780b 20:53:11 Grunt: OK, I'll let wheals know. 20:53:53 -!- fireprfHydra has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:59 gah, why won't this fricking tukima weapon stop being confused? 20:55:00 Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:55:08 welcome back, Sequell. 20:55:36 Lasty: it's probably not confused, but rather is missing a foe 20:55:57 I guess it might be technically BEH_WANDERING, not sure what its behaviour is 20:56:03 Oh, no, I see it! It's a haunting property added after the monster is created 20:56:08 At least, that seems likely 20:56:19 Lasty: you can also see the foe etc in full debug build 20:56:22 through xv iirc 20:56:24 if that helps 20:56:42 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:56:51 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:00 oh cool 20:57:02 thanks 20:57:14 crawl 20:57:16 er I think just x, not x v 20:57:18 oops, wrong window 20:57:25 I know that game! 20:57:40 is it any good? 20:57:50 <|amethyst> gammafunk: fixed the colours locally but can't push at the moment 20:57:51 not since they removed mountain dwarves... 20:58:00 The site http://s-z.org/neil/config/sawfish-rc.html is blocked. It has been classified in the category/ies Scam/Questionable/Illegal 20:58:06 haha 20:58:07 <|amethyst> gammafunk: to 4040ff 20:58:16 <|amethyst> checkers: yeah, it used to be "gambling" 20:58:22 !tell wheals M_BLINKER... 20:58:22 Grunt: OK, I'll let wheals know. 20:58:39 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:58:40 <|amethyst> checkers: I complained (forget which filter it was) and they switched it to that 20:58:50 lol 20:59:00 I think I got a warning likewise at work 20:59:02 <|amethyst> checkers: because the top level says "This domain name has not been seized by ICE - Homeland Security Investigations" 20:59:06 thought it was some weird ssl thing 20:59:07 lol 20:59:18 !tell wheals also we should pressgang someone else into helping us clean up the remaining abils; I think most of the rest of them are pretty straightforward to spellbind. 20:59:18 Grunt: OK, I'll let wheals know. 20:59:32 i'm just contracting at a dumb client site 21:00:21 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:00:37 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:00:43 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:01:04 Lasty, if you want something not Ru-related to do for a while, you could help mon-spell-slots by turning monster abilities in mon-abil.cc into monster spells instead :) 21:01:14 (it's pretty straightforward; just follow what wheals and I have been doing) 21:01:55 Grunt: I can give it a shot! I'm just about to be out for the evening, but I can turn my hand to it next time I sit down to do some coding. 21:02:01 Lasty: cool! 21:02:08 I'd help but I'm so close to finishing this tomb subvault <_< >_> 21:02:16 gammafunk: imo work faster!!! 21:02:23 * Grunt cracks the whip. 21:02:27 * gammafunk slows down... 21:02:28 ...don't make me remove you again! :b 21:04:10 <|amethyst> checkers: Lexmark's filter at least used to block it 21:04:24 dumb question. are monster spells and player spells vastly different? or are they easily interchangeable? 21:04:34 <|amethyst> checkers: I mean the one they use, not one they make 21:04:54 <|amethyst> johnstein: they can be quite different even if they're the same spell 21:05:05 that seems like a bummer 21:05:09 <|amethyst> some parts are common, but even damage is computed completely differently 21:05:12 very different, because monsters are very different implementation wise 21:06:05 for instance, they have access to more accurate transcriptions of the spell, orb of destruction 21:06:11 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:20 it is believed there is a monster historical society of some sort which gives them this information 21:06:42 I was working on a silly roguelike and so far all my player and monster code is the same. I keep getting tempted to make them diverge 21:07:15 Don't do it! It's a trap! 21:07:27 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:30 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 21:07:47 I'm going to say something really controversial here: Monsters and players should be similar in some respects, but should differ in others. 21:07:57 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:07:58 nrook: the players are the real monsters anyway 21:08:01 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:05 that's true 21:08:33 huh. if I wanted to add a new armour type, I... have no idea how I'd do so. 21:08:36 there isn't really space in the enums. 21:08:53 ...how did we get rid of splint mail then 21:08:55 :| 21:08:58 ok ok so maybe there is another reason to switch to protobufs bh 21:09:02 Grunt: removing is simple!!! 21:09:08 rip...... 21:09:09 and apparently was done sometime before the last save compat break 21:09:10 presumably they were replaced by pda right 21:09:17 obv 21:09:30 hm. if I just get rid of ARM_MAX_UNBRANDED, I think I can swing this 21:09:37 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1326-g0d3be8d: Extend Ru Sacrifice Love to a few more cases 10(6 minutes ago, 5 files, 27+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d3be8d85cf2 21:10:41 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: search for NO_SPLINT in tags.cc 21:10:43 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:11:12 ugh 21:11:19 yeah, I could kind of 21:11:26 shift the bardings a bit north 21:11:44 ok, I have a plan. 21:11:55 You have a plan!!! 21:12:04 and you can too 21:12:11 so, er 21:12:19 ...do I want to know why you're asking about adding a new type of body armour 21:12:22 !!!! 21:12:24 PleasingFungus: You'll be so proud. I used a doxygen comment. 21:12:30 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: or the unbranded thing could become a flag in armour_def 21:12:31 you get a plan, and you get a plan, and ... 21:12:38 Lasty: you did! 21:12:38 <|amethyst> Grunt: dragons 21:12:48 here there be dragon armours? 21:12:49 Grunt: putting up a shadow dragon armour branch 21:12:54 per earlier discussion 21:13:08 Lasty: <3 21:13:10 (can I make a quicksilver dragon armour to throw in >_>) 21:13:27 Lasty: imho don't put @return for void functions 21:13:34 Grunt: absolutely! what does it do 21:13:35 * Grunt returns Lasty to the void! 21:13:39 !banish Lasty 21:13:39 Grunt casts a spell. Lasty is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:13:44 PleasingFungus: MR++ or +++ or so 21:13:49 PleasingFungus: Really? At work we do. :p 21:13:51 PleasingFungus: probably on the light side (a bit heavier than MDA maybe?) 21:14:04 Grunt: do you want a bad idea 21:14:11 PleasingFungus: I *am* bad ideas. 21:14:25 Of course, that's in PHP, where the functions don't have declared return types. 21:14:27 earlier, I was tossing around the idea of some effect that essentially gave perma-cancellation 21:14:33 +haste -20 AC 21:14:36 PleasingFungus: sounds like an unrand 21:14:37 I like my bad idea better 21:14:44 PleasingFungus: wait 21:14:45 PleasingFungus: MAXWELL'S 21:14:49 the initial idea was "quicksilver form" 21:14:57 but I think that is probably unviable 21:15:05 -!- HonestMoneyLende has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:20 Grunt: 8 AC, 4 EV, MR+, can't be enchanted. 21:15:52 Lasty: can you enchant the hide 21:16:01 why is there a slime vault with water in it 21:16:10 simmarine: decoration! 21:16:15 alternate question: why not??? 21:16:27 i dont think ive ever seen water in slime once before this 21:16:32 PleasingFungus: imo we should get bone dragons to leave (unanimatable) skeletons so that we can make bone dragon armour??? 21:16:35 PleasingFungus: Presumably you have to be able to . . . or maybe it never turns into an armour, and those are the hide stats. 21:16:41 (what would bone dragon armour even do) 21:16:45 haha 21:16:46 (SH+3) 21:16:48 (or so) 21:16:48 rSkeleton 21:16:49 be insanely spooky 21:16:52 SH+3 would be good 21:16:52 fear effect 21:17:09 +sh +hp 21:17:10 inherent clarity. nothing can spook you worse than walking around inside a giant skeleton 21:17:17 haha 21:17:47 ...actually, clearly the "hide" would be "bone dragon fragments" or something to avoid confusion 21:17:53 i want an unrand -4 ringmail of {slay+7} 21:17:53 ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:17:57 !messages 21:17:57 (1/1) roctavian said (9h 54m 4s ago): I like it, helps distinguish it as a capstone weapon 21:18:00 (drops instead of a corpse) 21:18:04 like what 21:18:26 PleasingFungus: hurry, get this branch of yours up so I can start coding some of these!!!! 21:18:32 working on it :) 21:18:46 FR: shadow dragon hide/armour 21:18:56 well 21:19:07 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 21:19:08 Brannock: that is, in fact, exactly where we started :) 21:19:14 I should read logs before I pipe up 21:19:20 no! never read logs 21:19:23 you fool!!! 21:20:26 i'm reading the logs right now 21:20:31 to understand this very conversation 21:21:05 roctavian: no recursing 21:21:29 you see here Roctavian {Curse} 21:22:05 oh, did you see the sword of zonguldrok i made 21:22:27 roctavian: fr: a Singing Sword that looks like a tuning fork <_< >_> 21:22:29 it is about 300% more anime than previously 21:22:40 yeah it's sweet 21:23:15 maybe it's anime, but it's finally a distinct and unique looking design for one of crawl's classic weapons 21:24:28 now, will anyone use it...? 21:25:18 ~1 hour ago i was at the bus stop, casually thinking to myself "crawl could stand to cull some unrads" 21:25:24 *unrands 21:25:43 like, eos 21:26:07 !rng fancy special 21:26:07 The RNG chooses: special. 21:26:09 aw 21:28:02 ??eos 21:28:03 eos[1/1]: +11,+11 unrandart morningstar, {elec, -Tele rElec SInv} 21:28:07 eos is lovable 21:28:22 it's fine, really 21:28:32 what is your opinion 21:28:37 of the robe of augmentation 21:28:52 uh, i don't remember what it does off the top of my head 21:29:05 that should speak to my opinion at least a little 21:29:08 it's +stats -enchant I think? 21:29:27 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:24 that makes it sound so exciting 21:30:26 ??robe of augmentation 21:30:27 robe of augmentation[1/1]: +4 robe that gives +4 to all stats. Whoopee. 21:30:32 !learn edit eos s/.11..11/+11/ 21:30:32 eos[1/1]: +11 unrandart morningstar, {elec, -Tele rElec SInv} 21:30:34 goodlearndb 21:30:38 there's some ego animal skins i'd rather wear 21:30:50 if you suggest removing the skin of zhor, I will cut you. 21:31:00 i am all into that 21:31:11 skin of zhor is so great, esp with its current flavour 21:31:34 what is it made out of 21:32:03 "some strange animal, native to cold and distant lands." 21:32:10 also it's smelly 21:32:11 a corollary to what i suggested earlier, unrands without interesting mechanics or flavor could be made more exciting 21:32:12 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:32:13 which is important!!! 21:32:32 roctavian: ya that's been a steady effort throughout crawl's recent history, I think 21:32:38 i agree 21:32:42 specific suggestions always welcome 21:33:04 what is eos supposed to be 21:33:16 a morningstar 21:33:19 in the case of say, eos or robe of augmentation though, my point is that they may as well just not be around 21:33:34 "eos" is the name of some greek dawn goddess or something? 21:33:50 The rosy fingers of the Dawn... 21:33:54 (yes) 21:33:55 a hazy mythological reference 21:34:09 I guess I wouldn't especially miss it if it went away 21:34:18 not much developed. i do have a quran quote for sword of jihad someday, btw 21:34:21 I don't really feel motivated to remove it, tho 21:34:21 both items are pretty strong 21:34:23 it's kind of pure neutral 21:34:27 in terms of design interest 21:35:17 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1327-g6ab1cc6: Pull armour specialness into itemprop (|amethyst) 10(4 minutes ago, 4 files, 54+ 42-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ab1cc638e1b 21:35:21 Some vague idea that you could do a thing with Eos / Helios / Selene. 21:35:30 God/Godesses of Dawn / Sun / Moon. 21:36:36 the +5 selene axe 21:36:52 ...now what did I do with that axe of darkness stuff 21:36:53 :) 21:36:53 good spawn for moonlab 21:37:00 "The icy fingers of the moon..." 21:37:22 the moon isn't really icy. 21:37:27 like, mythologically. 21:37:56 it's not really icy irl either 21:38:08 <|amethyst> moon rabbit 21:38:36 moon moon 21:38:41 it was more like icy in terms of color scheme 21:39:25 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:39:25 moon rabbit monsters. appear in lair, as visitors. 21:39:50 like death yaks for frogs. 21:39:58 I guess that's blink frogs. 21:40:04 like catoblepas for frogs? 21:40:24 technically, rabbits aren't frogs 21:40:43 !learn add PleasingFungus technically, rabbits aren't frogs 21:40:43 pleasingfungus[12/12]: technically, rabbits aren't frogs 21:40:45 technically. 21:40:58 (to be moved to the rabbit entry later when it exists obv) 21:41:38 ??minmay 21:41:38 minmay[1/17]: http://i.imgur.com/F9rnGzB.png 21:41:42 good, mine is still longer 21:41:51 r??grunt 21:41:51 grunt[1/21]: dang rip 21:41:53 -!- Amnesthesia|Else is now known as Amnesthesia 21:42:08 ??minmay[delets 21:42:08 I don't have a page labeled minmay[delets in my learndb. 21:42:09 ??minmay[deletes 21:42:10 minmay[9/17]: (6:44:12 PM) minqmay: !learn del minmay[18] (6:44:13 PM) Henzell: Deleted minmay[18/18]: Deletes his own entries 21:42:15 !lg minmay s=species 21:42:16 3280 games for minmay: 1684x Mummy, 359x Demigod, 218x Demonspawn, 151x Naga, 127x Kobold, 108x Deep Elf, 106x Octopode, 67x Merfolk, 66x Tengu, 63x High Elf, 52x Minotaur, 41x Spriggan, 28x Ogre, 24x Troll, 23x Mountain Dwarf, 22x Human, 21x Hill Orc, 18x Kenku, 18x Vampire, 17x Sludge Elf, 11x Felid, 9x Djinni, 6x Ghoul, 6x Lava Orc, 5x Halfling, 5x Draconian, 5x Deep Dwarf, 4x Formicid, 4x Cent... 21:42:19 dang, henzell 21:42:20 impressive 21:42:21 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:42:55 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 21:42:58 should've played more sludge elfs when you had the chance 21:43:07 well. "should" is a strong term 21:43:10 (likewise djinn) 21:43:12 (and lo) 21:43:49 the only thing that matters is the GrDK high score 21:44:36 !hs * grdk 21:44:37 13. gammafunk the Petrodigitator (L27 GrDK of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-06-02 14:19:32, with 2159344 points after 139579 turns and 18:23:15. 21:44:54 !wtf grdk 21:44:54 Gargoyle Death Knight 21:44:57 just checking 21:45:08 !hs dgbe 21:45:09 No games for dgbe. 21:45:12 !hs * dgbe 21:45:13 1. test the Chopper (L1 DGBe of Trog), mangled by an orc (a +0,+0 orcish club) on D:1 on 2008-05-27 08:58:58, with 63 points after 386 turns and 0:07:26. 21:45:19 brutal mangling 21:46:32 dang 21:46:39 !hs * dgbe x=cv,src 21:46:40 1. [cv=0.3;src=cao] test the Chopper (L1 DGBe of Trog), mangled by an orc (a +0,+0 orcish club) on D:1 on 2008-05-27 08:58:58, with 63 points after 386 turns and 0:07:26. 21:46:42 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:44 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:47:37 !lg * dg-- s=god 21:47:38 74883 games for * (dg--): 74856x, 26x Nemelex Xobeh, Trog 21:47:47 !hs * dg nem 21:47:48 26. elliptic the God of Death (L27 DgJr of Nemelex Xobeh), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2013-04-12 15:29:31, with 3073859 points after 86898 turns and 8:05:21. 21:47:52 ahhh 21:48:00 testing? 21:48:15 or were Dg allowed to worship nem? 21:48:26 !lg * dgjr s=god 21:48:26 107 games for * (dgjr): 81x, 26x Nemelex Xobeh 21:48:29 april fools day 21:48:32 jester class 21:48:39 april fools day and also probably an oversight 21:48:43 yup 21:48:43 or maybe not??? 21:48:44 ah ok 21:48:51 it was changed after a few hours 21:48:55 heh 21:48:56 yeah. that was my bug 21:49:51 the b in bh stands for bug 21:50:05 fr: enchant animal hides into leather armour 21:50:07 Bug Hero? 21:50:13 PleasingFungus: <3 21:50:22 I am sure this is a very, very old fr 21:52:19 PleasingFungus: while I don't disagree, it seems like something Nethack would do 21:52:48 oh no it was a joke 21:53:02 it makes no sense. why would you do that? they don't even have the same evp 21:53:33 ??hda 21:53:34 hda[1/1]: see {shadow_dragon_armour} 21:53:36 hahaha 21:53:38 good 21:53:44 I am glad that great minds think alike 21:53:49 when it comes to dragon armour TLAs 21:54:04 ??shadow dragon armour 21:54:04 I don't have a page labeled shadow_dragon_armour in my learndb. 21:54:13 Why *isn't* that a thing? 21:54:23 the entry or the item? 21:54:34 bh: because PleasingFungus is slow at coding 21:54:38 !!!! 21:54:40 !banish Grunt 21:54:40 PleasingFungus casts a spell. Grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:54:43 "slow!!!!" 21:54:45 the nerve 21:54:45 !singularity PleasingFungus 21:54:45 Grunt mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps PleasingFungus! 21:54:46 the item 21:54:50 ??pearl dragon armour 21:54:50 pearl dragon armour[1/1]: 10AC, 11ER, rN+. 21:54:53 ??gold dragon armour 21:54:54 gold dragon armour[1/4]: 12AC, 25ER, rF+ rC+ rPois. Can be created by enchanting a gold dragon hide. 21:54:55 bh: serious answer: probably because that exists, yeah 21:54:56 (pda) 21:55:08 and no one had a good idea for what else shadow dragon hide would do 21:55:10 before now.... 21:55:13 hide, armour, we/ 21:55:25 just make it PDA with a black tile 21:55:34 then we can sell it to the players as an upgrade 21:55:39 people wanting shadow dragon armour is way older than pda 21:55:53 since the dawn of time, man has yearned for SDA! 21:56:07 -!- Orphic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:15 *hda 21:56:17 ??faerie dragon 21:56:17 faerie dragon[1/1]: They don't exist! 21:56:17 ??sda 21:56:17 sda[1/1]: You may have been looking for {oda}, {wda}, or {eda}. 21:56:27 clearly will need to edit that 21:56:29 ??oda 21:56:30 storm dragon armour[1/1]: 10AC, 15ER, rElec. Can be created by enchanting a storm dragon hide. 21:56:50 shadow dragon (06D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 17 | HP: 106-149 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 2013(drain), 15, 15 | evil, cold-blooded, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(120), 02cold++, 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++ | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 2067 | Sp: b.draining (3d24) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 21:56:50 %??shadow dragon 21:56:53 pearl dragon (08D) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 96-138 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3508(holy), 2008(holy) | 08holy, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 3724 | Sp: holy breath (3d36) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 21:56:53 %??pearl dragon 21:57:32 12AC, 25ER, rN+, rRot done. 21:57:40 thanks, bh. 21:57:45 th. 21:57:47 you're welcome, bud 21:59:16 unknown monster: "faerie dragon" 21:59:16 %??faerie dragon 21:59:22 Why don't they exist? 21:59:34 they're extinct read the fluff GAWD 21:59:37 ^ 21:59:39 ?/faerie dragon 21:59:40 Matching terms (2): faerie_dragon, faerie_dragon_armour; entries (3): ada[1] | the_enchantress[1] | da[1] 21:59:57 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:57 fluff? what does the orb of zot even do? 22:00:29 zots 22:01:58 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:02:29 Runed Armour whose stats improve as you get more runes. feels like a bad idea but I'm too inexperienced to know precisely why 22:02:49 haha 22:03:08 honestly, something like Mega Man where runes do something might not be so awful 22:03:12 channel quiz: how do people feel about the y/N prompt for removing items from your shopping list? 22:03:55 "You don't have permission to access /graphs/fc58a0942f9137b92a1169976eb42e590d14ea9a.html on this server." :< 22:04:02 why bother prompting on it? 22:04:09 that is my feeling 22:04:22 I presume this is related to some change with Sequell. 22:05:25 wasn't sequell just restarted for maintenance? 22:05:29 also, what are you getting that message from? 22:06:28 the webpage sequell spits out after generating a graph 22:06:48 Can someone give me the translation pages again? 22:06:55 I lost them when I reformatted 22:06:55 That is, shallot.org/graphs/foo.html 22:06:59 er, shalott 22:07:55 I...am...butchering.....jsx!!! 22:08:12 gammafunk enjoyed that. 22:08:18 hah 22:08:21 %git d000c257 22:08:21 07Matthew_Cline02 * 0.6.0-a1-1167-gd000c25: Can now delete shopping list items via '$' menu 10(4 years, 11 months ago, 1 file, 38+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d000c257fe85 22:08:30 ah, ok. 22:08:56 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1328-g554e069: Remove the prompt for deleting shopping list items 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=554e069cd5f8 22:10:47 %git efb73c 22:10:47 07Lasty02 * 0.16-a0-1322-gefb73c1: Clarify two sacrifice descriptions. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=efb73c169bb4 22:11:15 Lasty_: %git efb73c, looks good :D ty 22:11:30 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:11:56 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:12:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:12:59 fr: can we standardize stealth bonuses towards the stealth pip? 22:13:18 PleasingFungus: commit the change you want to see in crawl 22:13:24 ha 22:13:33 gammafunk: design us some shadow dragon armour 22:13:34 well, I was worried about terrifying balance consequences 22:13:36 but w/e 22:13:44 bh: I am literally implementing shadow dragon armour right now, you know. 22:13:44 the wha 22:13:55 PleasingFungus: go on? 22:13:57 PleasingFungus: I really hope it doesn't get 22:14:02 !glasses 22:14:02 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 22:14:02 overshadowed 22:14:11 so when do we get qda and rda 22:14:24 xda 22:15:09 (what does rda do) 22:15:21 xda would be nice; i hate that source of dissapointment when you enchant the hide and it's nothing special 22:15:42 imo serpent of Hell armour 22:15:44 is that what happens when you enchant an xfleury hide 22:15:46 which one would rda be again 22:15:51 iRon dragon armour 22:15:55 ah yeah 22:16:08 things_we_dont_need.txt 22:16:37 haven't you ever wanted to see -27 EVP? 22:16:55 aren't they positive now 22:17:11 don't ask me, I'm trapped in the past 22:17:29 they're stored as negative values internally 22:17:32 but displayed as positive 22:17:40 everyone's right! 22:18:00 haha they're still evp internally? that's amazing 22:18:01 I disagree with PleasingFungus. 22:18:04 :( 22:18:09 also, I wonder if xv monster info should round up (for ac/ev) 22:18:10 muhahahahahahaha 22:18:15 or, like, not round down 22:18:20 why not xom dragon armour? 22:18:23 or gargoyle hide? 22:18:28 bh: what's a Xom dragon 22:18:32 or yak teeth 22:18:40 let's go full DF 22:18:53 gammafunk: move to a trailer in rural Texas? 22:19:14 bh: well for me it'd not be terribly different, but you might have trouble adjusting 22:19:29 2spooky. 22:21:13 cool, looks like edliothol moved all the chat html out of the pythong 22:21:15 haha 22:21:16 pythong 22:21:59 bh: fancy webtiles features will be easier in webtiles-changes branch 22:22:17 ??webtiles-changes 22:22:17 I don't have a page labeled webtiles-changes in my learndb. 22:22:43 %git webtiles-changes 22:22:44 07edlothiol02 * 0.15-a0-2343-g61e331d: Webtiles: Use TOML instead of JSON for config. 10(4 weeks ago, 8 files, 648+ 195-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=61e331d53eaa 22:22:51 ??toml 22:22:52 I don't have a page labeled toml in my learndb. Did you mean: tomb, tome, tome4. 22:23:01 lazy!!! 22:23:01 whatever that is can't be good 22:23:14 I've never heard of TOML before.. :/ 22:23:18 bh: it's mostly so we can update webtiles config without a restart 22:23:19 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:25 it was in json, which is apparently worse 22:23:34 toml looks fine for the config data we have 22:23:46 webserver config is not terribly elaborate 22:23:52 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1329-g8371119: Standardize several stealth sources 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 18+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=837111987603 22:23:57 before it was in python, which meant changes required restart 22:24:30 incredible xom buffs 22:24:32 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:24:53 ..and restarts turn |amethyst into the HULK!!!! 22:24:57 also nightstalker buffs, which are kind of unnecessary (I wonder if it would have been better to change it to STEALTH_PIP / 2 per level?) 22:25:39 -!- StumpS has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:45 demonic guardian reform imo 22:25:55 did toml just land in trunk? 22:25:57 oh no 22:26:11 oh, it did 22:26:18 checkers: no, it didn't 22:26:30 confused by branches 22:26:35 checkers: that's a commit in the branch, yeah 22:26:38 you should 22:26:39 branch out 22:26:40 a bit 22:26:40 then 22:26:41 :) 22:26:42 ...... 22:26:48 PleasingFungus: hi...... 22:26:51 someone suggested that sticks to snakes should have a special effect when in treeform 22:26:56 which is so obviously true that I don't know what to do 22:26:58 PleasingFungus: anaconda form 22:27:00 !!! 22:27:04 medusa form 22:27:06 it's like sublimation of blood 22:27:08 (gorgon form?) 22:27:11 takes hp, makes snakes 22:27:18 ...only if we get to add gorgons as enemies 22:27:24 I mean that would be simple... 22:27:27 (petrification gaze, hitting them in melee makes snakes) 22:27:37 Grunt: only with slicing weapons!!! 22:27:42 PleasingFungus: yes! 22:27:49 also vorpal weapons have an extra-high chance of causing snakes 22:27:54 since devs HATE vorpal 22:28:15 (also we end up with Medusa the unique gorgon obv) 22:28:35 sss 22:28:45 clearly they can place in Swamp and Snake both!!! 22:28:45 <_< 22:28:53 (greater gorgons for Depths or something) 22:28:54 I have a suggestion: Can there be a better player tile for the sword of cerebov 22:29:00 It looks like a champagne bottle opener 22:29:01 -!- Twinge has quit [] 22:29:10 and not an awesomely powerful sword 22:29:26 tabstorm: get photoshopping imo 22:29:43 what's the name of the function that forces a prompt? 22:29:50 more(); 22:29:54 or did you want something else 22:29:58 that works 22:30:05 !function more 22:30:05 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/duration-data.h;hb=HEAD#l5 22:30:08 (imo don't more() if you can avoid it) 22:30:10 heh 22:30:23 !send Grunt CHAIN LIGHTNING 22:30:23 Sending CHAIN LIGHTNING to Grunt. 22:30:26 (rip more()) 22:30:31 !send PleasingFungus CHAIN OF CHAOS 22:30:31 Sending CHAIN OF CHAOS to PleasingFungus. 22:30:35 what should I use instead? 22:30:42 bh: what's the context 22:31:17 Grunt: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9043 22:31:36 probably 22:31:40 add that to the default force-mores 22:31:46 so people can mess with their rcs to turn it off 22:31:49 the easiest way to do it is add "unsafe for travelling" 22:32:02 I was going to control it with a bool option 22:32:07 hrm, what is this admin/dev/goodplayer/* thing 22:32:10 "group" I guess 22:32:24 "nerdclass" 22:32:26 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:27 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:32:33 or nerdtype 22:32:35 okay. I think that the number of plusses displayed is actually limited to three 22:32:41 so it will only display stlth+++ 22:32:48 even if it's stlth++++ 22:32:54 this may be a warning to me 22:33:00 -!- ___miek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:33:01 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:12 seriously going with nerdtype, edliothol can kill me 22:33:49 gonna change the cap to six plusses 22:33:51 god help me 22:35:38 I guess also showing the color in the name of chat messages would be annoying? 22:36:18 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 22:36:19 Grunt: what is your absurd gloorx idea 22:36:25 singular? 22:36:31 New branch created: dragonarms (1 commit) 22:36:31 03PleasingFungus02 07[dragonarms] * 0.16-a0-1330-g26f1821: Add Shadow Dragon Armour 10(74 seconds ago, 10 files, 55+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26f182163846 22:36:43 good branch name 22:36:47 ty 22:36:50 I spent several seconds deciding on it 22:36:55 dragonarms, L6 transmutation 22:37:02 L9 maybe 22:37:05 oh fuck 22:37:07 I forgot save compat 22:37:15 wait no nvm I don't need it. 22:37:16 ok. 22:37:22 save compat for a new item? 22:37:28 the enum situation for armours is 22:37:29 interesting. 22:37:32 ah 22:37:42 but I managed to sort that out, so it *should* be fine 22:37:44 that is a lot of + 22:37:50 ya 22:37:59 it feels excessive but elliptic was insistent!!!!! 22:38:06 and if you can't trust elliptic, who can you trust 22:38:11 oh no, elliptic seal of approval? 22:38:14 TRUST NO ONE 22:38:25 ONLY TRUST YOUR FISTS. 22:38:42 It looks like a significant upgrade from StDA for SpEn... 22:38:54 -!- Alpha_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:39:03 I am not certain that many spen will be wearing this, regardless. 22:39:05 powerful boots of the assassin gr armour.... 22:39:19 a distant, echoing, bloax-like voice: "what about spen^chei........" 22:39:24 lol 22:39:29 that much evp makes casting in it nontrivial, at least 22:39:32 ya 22:39:36 ??chain mail 22:39:37 chain mail[1/1]: 8AC, 15ER. 22:39:46 oh, only 15 22:39:51 still nontrivial 22:39:52 is this artefact storm DA or is it a new basetype? 22:40:03 I'm senile about armours since I don't really wear thing since forever 22:40:03 the idea is that it is a new basetype oh fuck I forgot a bunch of stuff 22:40:06 god damn acquirement code 22:40:07 fr artefact storm 22:40:15 Grunt: design it!!!! 22:40:20 more like junk storm 22:40:25 clearly it's mini-qaz armour 22:40:25 same thing though 22:40:31 spawns storm clouds when you get hit 22:40:34 first return unrand lcs to existence please :< 22:40:40 oh, bleh, forgot about the Eevp 22:40:44 evp* 22:40:48 StDA can't be arte? 22:40:52 read: lehudib's crystal javelin just doesn't have the same ring :( 22:40:55 gammafunk: it can't be unrand! 22:40:58 or do you mean an unrand 22:41:08 -!- Mottikins_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:41:22 hrm, well we don't have unrand FDA or IDA even 22:41:39 no reason why we can't, ofc 22:41:40 gammafunk: a +0 fire dragon armour {Xtahua} doesn't count? 22:41:45 Grunt: no!!! 22:42:09 not even +0 gold dragon armour {The Royal Jelly} counts as an unrand 22:42:20 I prefer a +0 gold dragon armour {Saint Roka} 22:42:26 03PleasingFungus02 07[dragonarms] * 0.16-a0-1331-g734f5ac: Add HDA to acquirement code 10(33 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=734f5ac63586 22:42:29 imo {rupert} 22:42:39 wait when did we get that branch 22:42:39 a +0 pearl dragon armour {Mennas} would be awesome if you could make it 22:42:41 I missed it!!!! 22:42:41 maybe you can 22:42:43 Grunt: hahaha 22:42:43 Grunt too slow :( 22:43:03 oh no, HilariousDeathArtist is in the acquirement code!!! 22:43:05 ruined 22:43:10 sounds 22:43:12 hilarious 22:44:01 You read the acquirement scroll. Your autcount has increased by 10 aut and is now 65789.2 aut. Something appears at your feet! Your item count has increased... 22:44:23 haha 22:45:07 New file: english.cc. libutil.cc line count: 500. * * * MASSIVE DAMAGE! * * * --more-- 22:45:28 that was a berserk ending joke but it didn't really quite work out 22:46:01 Spoiler: You have acquired a +0 hat. The hat offers 1 AC, protects you from corrosion, and is vulnerable to the antannae mutation! 22:46:14 -!- FatShack is now known as FtShkAway 22:46:17 hahaha 22:46:29 wow what kind of hat is that 22:46:33 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:33 !!!! 22:46:37 i want a hat that gives 1 AC at +0 too 22:46:49 heh 22:47:32 03bh02 07* 0.16-a0-1330-g38d16b3: Add exclude_forces_more rc option 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38d16b392e3a 22:47:48 augh 22:47:49 that is not what I meant 22:48:05 I did in fact mean matching on the string message 22:48:09 this does not need its own, unique, option! 22:48:24 I knew what you meant, but you were wrong 22:48:29 dang 22:48:31 wtf 22:48:34 gammafunk, back me up here. 22:48:38 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:38 or minmay. 22:48:47 right on cue, gamma. 22:48:54 Matching on strings is fragile. 22:49:20 is there any particular reason that the string has to be hardcoded? 22:50:32 If someone adds an rc line and we change the message, we break their config 22:50:38 that is fine 22:50:50 we break people's rc configs all the time 22:50:59 That seems like the opposite of fine 22:51:01 you are arguing against the existence of the force_more option 22:51:06 which is insane 22:51:30 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:51:43 you are also arguing against a large number of other rcfile options, e.g. all the item colouring & pickup and so forth options 22:51:55 basically you are arguing against the rcfile 22:51:58 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:06 gammafunk: hi 22:52:10 >_> 22:52:15 argument ad crawl isn't exactly persuasive 22:52:26 okay, I am trying to reorient myself. 22:52:33 In any case, this simply isn't interesting enough to get worked up about. 22:52:54 true. 22:52:57 If you want a fragile solution that coincides with existing code, go for it 22:53:24 oh god no, I'm not touching options code 22:53:25 hrm, there's no way to pass the exlude information down to where a more happens? 22:53:25 wheals can do it 22:53:33 gammafunk: ? 22:53:42 yeah see I don't know how that system works really 22:54:00 it does seem to be not a thing that really needs to be its own option, but I realize it's also a weird technical thing 22:54:22 Separating messaging from behavior seems like a very desirable thing 22:54:34 how is this not just "force_more_message += Marking area around"? 22:54:35 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:55:18 doy: if we ever change the message, this doesn't break 22:55:47 why is this message special compared to all of the other stuff in the default config 22:55:58 i mean, look at dat/defaults/messages.txt 22:56:32 the main problem with this, I think, is that it's not affected by force_more 22:56:42 the existing option that is supposed to handle force_mores 22:56:56 i mean, i don't disagree with you in principle, but it just seems to be adding inconsistency 22:56:59 if you want to remove that option entirely & replace it with a bunch of baby booleans, that's a separate argument 22:57:14 and inconsistency is worse in my opinion, given the state of the options in general already 22:58:14 -!- syndicus has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:58:25 it's late here. If anyone would prefer to add this to the stock force_more list, I don't object 22:58:42 In general I think we'd be better off with a heap of booleans 22:58:44 -!- Wahaha has left ##crawl-dev 22:58:47 -!- Wahaha has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:03 it would be certainly a lot easier to add to the nice options gui that I wish we had 23:00:29 imagine, you open an in game menu, and get to choose the orb guardian fetus tile from a tile display, and it updates right away 23:00:30 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:00:35 ...wow 23:01:01 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:01:34 -!- pet_loli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:01:35 gammafunk: did you just get 23:01:36 do with this as you will. I'm sleepy 23:01:37 some motivation 23:01:39 :) 23:01:41 * bh sleeps 23:01:57 a heap of booleans would be better in theory, but i have things like "force_more_message += Space (bends|warps horribly) around you" in my config, which indicates to me that we would likely need a fairly large heap 23:01:59 that's a bit too mammoth a task for me, I think 23:02:23 * doy shrug 23:02:27 03Grunt02 07[dragonarms] * 0.16-a0-1332-g84f981a: A first pass at quicksilver dragon armour. 10(2 minutes ago, 10 files, 44+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=84f981a04dec 23:02:30 PleasingFungus: behold 23:02:30 : 23:02:30 Grunt: ??? 23:02:32 !!! 23:02:34 oh no 23:02:43 (cue bikeshedding about numbers) 23:02:54 numbers are bikeshedding 23:03:01 bikeshedding by the numbers 23:03:02 i knew this would happen one day 23:03:03 grunt that's....that's just...that's wrong! 23:03:05 Grunt: you missed an acquirement array 23:03:08 PleasingFungus: rip... 23:04:04 (I call dibs on Yiuf Dragon Armour) 23:04:07 03Grunt02 07[dragonarms] * 0.16-a0-1333-g782014a: Don't miss an acquirement array for QDA (PleasingFungus). 10(31 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=782014ac6751 23:04:16 -!- codehero has quit [Excess Flood] 23:04:18 A quicksilver dragon armor that doesn't make you faster? o.O 23:04:25 PleasingFungus: clearly this will involve some commit squashing later... 23:04:33 oh yeah, fast move on an armour *please* 23:04:37 hm, can I add it to implemented_bad_ideas if it hasn't been merged into master yet 23:04:49 I say yes 23:04:54 * PleasingFungus squashes Grunt like a bug!!! 23:05:05 * Grunt flattens PleasingFungus like a pancake!!! 23:05:09 gammafunk: I feel like you're being sarcastic, somehow. 23:05:17 (re fast move) 23:05:21 PleasingFungus: what???? Sarcastic devs???? 23:05:25 !learn add implemented_bad_ideas 2788. Quicksilver dragon armour. 23:05:25 implemented bad ideas[28/28]: 2788. Quicksilver dragon armour. 23:05:32 nooo 23:05:33 wait, what 23:05:33 28 23:05:34 now you have to remove one 23:05:36 what 23:05:42 how the fuck did that even happen 23:05:49 you detected my subtle wit there? impressive 23:05:57 we can delete 4 23:06:01 ??implemented bad ideas[4 23:06:01 implemented bad ideas[4/28]: 509. LCS of returning [the unrandart] 23:06:10 or 5 23:06:11 (deimplemented bad ideas??) 23:06:30 !learn del implemented bad ideas[26] 23:06:30 Deleted implemented bad ideas[26/28]: 1503. When confused by a Zot trap, there is a 50% chance of falling down on the tile, taking damage, and invoking its effect again. (actually this was implemented from the beginning of dcss and then deimplemented --wheals) 23:06:32 just please don't go adding "new dragons" for no reason 23:06:36 that one reads super awkward 23:06:38 let's stop at the dragon armours 23:06:51 only when we get to komodo dragon armour imo 23:06:56 the dragon armours still need to sit for at least a day or two, I think 23:07:05 our current dragons are pretty decent 23:07:14 (clearly need to get bone dragon armour in first) 23:07:15 until the initial rush fades and we decide whether this is a remotely decent idea to actually push into trunk 23:07:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1331-g91d9888: Change exclusion force_more to use force_more_message 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 1+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=91d98883de9f 23:07:25 (and something for iron dragon armour <_<) 23:07:30 bone dragon armour sounds like it would be really sweet 23:07:37 give it rTorment, ahuahuah 23:07:45 shadow dragon armour looks like it will become the new mandatory armour for stealthy characters 23:07:59 checkers: so it will 23:08:00 !glasses 23:08:00 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 23:08:01 overshadow 23:08:03 everything else?? 23:08:05 ER is still a thing 23:08:13 when are we getting acidic dragons 23:08:14 I feel like people are forgetitng about er, ya 23:08:23 I said no new dragons! 23:08:38 speaking of stealth, I was thinking of submitting a patch to add player feedback if you "nearly" alert monsters. any opinions? 23:08:39 so when are mottled dragons getting an acid attack 23:09:03 read: mottled draconians don't have acid attacks 23:09:11 like, if you're within 5% of the alert threshold "monster nearly notices you!", or within 25% "monster stirs" 23:09:28 1817. Removing pillar dancing, spriggan speed bonus, MD armor bonuses, and other completely essential features. 23:09:42 youre behind schedule on this one, devs 23:09:45 minmay: we're like, halfway there 23:10:02 we totally removed pillar dancing because of energy randomization 23:10:10 that's the half-implement! 23:10:18 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:18 -!- lessens_ is now known as lessens 23:10:29 MD armor bonuses? 23:10:34 because of? poor phrasing there 23:10:35 mountain drawf? 23:10:45 ya 23:11:23 well that one is fixed too 23:11:34 not by removing the armor bonus but by removing MD 23:11:40 I'm guessing that was already gone, when we had that Nostalgia branch, because MD didn't feel like it was getting innately more armor. 23:11:42 which is even better 23:12:07 Grunt: what did kiku used to do?! 23:12:11 oh there's a page isn't there 23:12:12 did they actually have a bonus beyond their apt? 23:12:14 oh right 23:12:15 !won MDFi nostalgia 23:12:15 MDFi (nostalgia) has won once in 1 games (100.00%): 1xMDFi 23:12:18 that was me ;D 23:12:20 :) 23:12:46 dang...... 23:15:00 I'm looking at skill titles 23:15:03 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:15:09 it feels weird that "ruinous" is clearly the coolest cj title 23:15:12 and yet it's the first one 23:16:08 !annihilate PleasingFungus 23:16:10 tempted to move it to the penultimate slot (we probably don't need both "devastator" and "destroyer"), but what would the first one be then? 23:16:12 !title cj 23:16:14 cj: cannot understand cj. 23:16:18 !title conjurations 23:16:21 conjurations: Ruinous (1-7), Conjurer (8-14), Destroyer (15-20), Devastator (21-26), Annihilator (27) 23:16:25 PleasingFungus: Blaster 23:16:25 obv 23:16:28 hm 23:16:31 haha 23:17:01 why not? 23:17:05 !title unarmed 23:17:09 unarmed: Ruffian (1-7), Insei (1-7), Scratcher (2-7), Martial Artist (8-14), Grappler (8-14), Gouger (8-14), Ripper (15-20), Brawler (15-20), Black Belt (15-20), Sensei (21-26), Eviscerator (21-26), Wrestler (21-26), Heavyweight Champion (27), Grand Master (27), Middleweight Champion (27), Sabretooth (27), Cruiserweight Champion (27) 23:17:19 Grand Master Blaster 23:17:49 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18:15 s/ruinous/ruiner/ imo 23:18:27 doy: only MarvinPA gets that title imo 23:18:29 no, that's Grunt's title 23:18:31 haha 23:18:34 PleasingFungus: dang......... 23:18:55 <3 23:20:19 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:03 !title air magic 23:22:05 air magic: Gusty (1-7), Cloud Mage (8-14), Aerator (15-20), Anemomancer (21-26), Meteorologist (27) 23:22:13 pls suggest better titles than "aerator" and "anenomancer" 23:22:15 since they are bad 23:22:23 !send PleasingFungus a tengu aerator 23:22:23 Sending a tengu aerator to PleasingFungus. 23:22:33 PleasingFungus: imo bring back the old Air Magic titles?? 23:22:48 mm? 23:22:58 Aerosmith 23:22:59 Grunt: ...invoke death? 23:23:01 is that it 23:23:09 gammafunk: yes, more or less 23:23:11 muhahahahahaha 23:23:29 yeah he probably needs summon support 23:23:31 PleasingFungus: let me dig these out 23:23:33 those are certainly good 23:23:55 gammafunk: I figure the occasional Executioner or soul eater (in the miscast vein) might help too 23:24:13 Grunt: really I don't think those two, since there's a million of them around himm already 23:24:17 reapers I like more 23:24:17 PleasingFungus: nevermind, these are really boring 23:24:21 aw :( 23:24:22 hm 23:24:24 {"Air Magic", "Wind Mage", "Cloud Mage", "Air Mage", "Sky Mage", "Storm Mage"}, 23:24:26 wow 23:24:34 Stormcaller 23:24:39 Thunderhead 23:24:45 Thunderhead, heh. 23:24:50 windwalker 23:24:54 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:24:54 Wind Waker 23:24:57 s/lk/k/ 23:24:58 PleasingFungus: hi.......... 23:24:59 Skywalker 23:25:00 !title fire magic 23:25:01 fire magic: Firebug (1-7), Arsonist (8-14), Scorcher (15-20), Pyromancer (21-26), Infernalist (27) 23:25:03 Grunt: <3 23:25:09 !title ice magic 23:25:10 ice magic: Chiller (1-7), Frost Mage (8-14), Gelid (15-20), Cryomancer (21-26), Englaciator (27) 23:25:12 PleasingFungus: good conduct imo 23:25:14 theres a -mancer for every 21-26 23:25:17 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:18 englaciator 23:25:21 reapers are really nice since reach; you could do shadow fiends, but gloorx is basically a shadow fiend himself 23:26:38 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:48 why doesn't crawl have a meteor storm spell 23:28:00 PleasingFungus: imo appropriate glaciate-icicle to do that 23:28:01 <3 23:29:26 comet storm 23:29:59 I am trying to decide if thunderhead is Too Stupid A Name 23:30:33 i would put it at not worse than the current titles 23:30:41 but i would also say that that isn't a high bar 23:30:43 haha 23:30:45 -!- Alpha__ is now known as Alpha_ 23:30:56 that sounds about right 23:31:16 -!- speranza has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]] 23:32:07 Zephyrmancer? 23:32:10 if we're doing -mancers 23:32:13 whatevermancy 23:32:23 that's probably an improvement over anemomancer 23:32:30 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:32:34 I will accept it 23:32:39 surely there is a real -mancy you could use 23:32:49 prophecy by way of clouds/winds 23:32:49 ontoclasm: magic isn't real. 23:32:50 I'm sorry. 23:33:04 b-but 23:33:27 dang.................................. 23:33:49 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 23:34:25 I'm not fond of reapers for gloorx because in my head I assoiciate reapers with the hells and it's one of the few pan/hell dividing things as such 23:34:28 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:35:09 sppsrently nehpomancy is divination via clouds 23:35:15 his set is bizarrely brief compared to others aside from the executioner spam, though 23:35:15 nephomancy* 23:35:25 that's nearly as bad a name as anenomancer, tho. 23:35:48 aeromancer? 23:36:03 not sure what undead to suggest since one of the billion tasks I've got is to buff tartarus with more of them 23:36:05 aeromancer could work if we also replace aerator 23:36:23 imo zephyrmancer is better 23:36:32 Zephyrim 23:36:33 <_< 23:36:55 also gammafunk if polymorph on mnoleg is too unlikely to work with the mr, what about giving him af_vuln 23:37:01 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:37:10 theTower: we need a big tough super nasty undead 23:37:14 (four seperate disparate attack brands, clearly enough of a gimmick) 23:37:19 aliches are cool but they are wimps 23:37:29 i guess bone dragons but anh 23:37:29 summon vampire knights 23:37:31 !!!!!! 23:38:12 meteorologist -> merfolkian hurricane (etc) 23:38:16 a big tough super nasty undead is called a greater mummy 23:38:35 summon greater undead 23:38:54 if you keep that up I will just give him curse skulls 23:39:12 imo gloorx doesn't need much of a buff, beyond maybe bumping spell frequency 23:39:19 he's already pretty nasty when he decides to be 23:39:27 gloorx himself is nice, I just dislike his level 23:39:32 oh. sure 23:39:35 his level isn't great 23:39:35 %git mon-spell-slots^{/Gloorx} 23:39:36 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1040-g66d99bf: Turn some more mon-abils to spells. 10(2 days ago, 14 files, 770+ 707-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=66d99bf010b8 23:39:40 %git mon-spell-slots^{/Gloorx}^^{/Gloorx} 23:39:41 07Grunt02 * 0.16-a0-1009-g26a28c0: Increase casting frequencies of Lom Lobon and Gloorx Vloq. 10(13 days ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26a28c060d97 23:39:54 o 23:39:56 well then. 23:40:11 aside from hyper-rare ds and the blocked-by-one-pip pain or drain life, everything on his level is melee 23:40:25 -!- ontoclasm is now known as zephyrclasm 23:40:31 ontoclasm: mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 23:40:54 actually I kind of like curse skulls on his level somebody try and stop me 23:41:02 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 23:41:04 I will not stop you. 23:41:18 curse skulls sound pretty reasonable to me 23:41:37 Gloorx Floq throws his arms wide. 3 curse skulls come into view. 23:41:43 er 23:41:46 Vloq 23:41:59 gloorx throq flows his arms wide 23:42:11 gloorx floq guards the wooly rune 23:43:27 oh yeah nobody ever told me how dumb my idea was 23:43:54 fr: display out-of-view stuff in tiles in greyscale 23:43:59 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:44:08 why 23:44:26 so it's more easily distiguishable from in-los stuff 23:44:43 is that something that you see people having trouble with? 23:45:01 i dunno, it irritates me occasionally 23:45:04 keep in mind that you'll also make it significantly harder to tell what *is* out of sight 23:45:07 since you lose color 23:45:11 i mean i could just darken the out-of-los overlay 23:45:23 yeah, i suppose 23:46:17 a current vaguely comparable example is lantern of shadows 23:46:18 ahaha 23:46:23 oops wrong channel 23:46:39 all devs should laugh sinisterly every day. 23:46:42 !title Faith Healer 23:46:43 Faith Healer: Invocations (Elyvilon) 23:46:47 how attached are people to this one 23:47:15 1learn add devteam 23:47:19 haha 23:47:29 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:47:29 it's always seemed kind of insulting to me 23:47:33 but maybe people like it? 23:47:34 (todo figure out the right mix of monsters for this summon greater undead which is going to go nowhere) 23:47:41 idk, I'll just keep poking things 23:47:46 put greater undead on zig lords 23:48:02 1, MONS_CURSE_SKULL, 23:48:04 the finishing touch 23:48:12 pleasingfungus: I think Pacifier is already silly so 23:48:23 ya that's also bad 23:49:17 !title Pure 23:49:19 Pure: Invocations (Lugonu) 23:49:21 I love this one 23:49:26 it's so dumb 23:49:46 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]] 23:50:17 but how do you annoy lucy in the first place? 23:50:31 excellent question 23:51:14 dpeg would answer "not defiling an altar coming into los" 23:51:17 fr lucy hates it when yo udrink cmut 23:52:49 so gloorx is getting buffed, lom was buffed recently w/ glaciate, mnoleg just got buffed 23:53:02 "now let's nerf cerebov" 23:53:15 lom got buffed again and no one's sure about whether the mnoleg thing was actually a buff iirc 23:53:24 well it is but hes still wimpy 23:53:27 er, *lom is getting buffed again 23:53:31 how so this time 23:53:36 cast more glaciates? 23:53:38 ya 23:53:40 ok 23:53:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:54:06 in fact Lom getting spammy is the original motivation for this branch 23:54:07 <3 23:54:10 pan lords should be special cased to ignore friendly fire 23:54:20 o 23:54:28 as a representative of the masses, tell me how you feel about a tentacle-less mnoleg with an af_vuln attack and polymorph, tabstorm. 23:54:31 isnt he dangerous enough with glaciate and nado.. 23:54:32 friendly fire should probably be retought generally 23:54:36 the logic 23:54:44 *the monster ai logic 23:54:49 like poly the spell? 23:54:55 or af:poly 23:55:04 the spell 23:55:06 ok 23:55:11 well if you just stack MR you aren't going to care 23:55:16 if you have good evasion you won't care 23:55:31 like how hard do you want him to be 23:55:33 fair enough 23:55:39 hi guys, I have a patch (not ready for merge) I'd like to put up for discussion -- what's the best way to do so? 23:55:43 most chars can get MR5 by that point 23:55:51 "better than before" is my priority, not "cerebov" 23:55:51 checkers: is it big 23:55:52 so even if he vulns you youre still at 3, enough to resist a lot of things 23:56:00 checkers: http://sprunge.us/ 23:56:05 is the standard approach 23:56:14 zephyrclasm: the initial patch is small but I guess the final thing is moderate 23:56:17 his hd is pretty weak, he could probably get a buff 23:56:22 there, specifically, I mean 23:56:24 <|amethyst> mantis is also reasonable 23:56:25 Mnoleg (09&) | Spd: 13 | HD: 17 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/25 | Dam: 3509(mutation), 2306(blink self) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 10665 | Sp: sum.eyeballs, spawn tentacles, sum.horrible things | Sz: Large | Int: high. 23:56:25 %??mnoleg 23:56:31 Killer Klown (05p) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 126-178 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(160) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 4744 | Sp: blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:56:31 %??killer klown 23:56:40 ya, mantis is not the most hardcore place 23:56:47 in terms of requirements for putting stuff up there 23:56:54 is that uptodate for 0.16 23:56:59 it seems no 23:57:06 ? 23:57:11 <|amethyst> sprunge is good if you want to get immediate feedback 23:57:12 I've already made a few mantis tickets but it doesn't seem like discussion happens there 23:57:20 I thought his damage was different now 23:57:24 af:klown or w/e 23:57:28 <|amethyst> checkers: mantis is so that people don't forget it :) 23:57:33 or is that only the tentacles 23:57:35 mnoleg should move like a bat, at bat speed 23:57:41 tentacles have klown 23:57:44 o 23:57:45 http://sprunge.us/TPbK -- [PATCH] Add feedback for stealth checks 23:57:48 -!- ruwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:51 well you could do something like give him chaos 23:57:59 but thats not really fair because you can just randomly die 23:58:04 not something I think its great 23:58:12 right, don't like af_chaos there 23:58:32 the code is not right yet, so I'm looking for technical feedback about the implementation and UI feedback 23:58:41 I was going to give him af_klown directly at the same time as af_vuln 23:58:41 I mean the fact is that tentacles have a hard time working well with summons; I can make the tentacles faster and improve the shoving a bit, but the X will always get in the way to some extent 23:58:44 also why not just remove summon horrible things 23:58:47 horrible things dont do anyting 23:58:51 to chars at this point 23:59:01 its just "Oh they're sort of in the way, I guess.." 23:59:02 yeah I agree it's not a great fit for him 23:59:15 but you'll just mow them down 23:59:20 I mean the tmons can get a kill occassionally but 23:59:22 imo go back to Mnoleg's roots as they exist currently and work from there??? 23:59:26 <|amethyst> checkers: hm... it would be hard to merge the messages 23:59:26 or buff XXX 23:59:35 people have been trying to design around his summon spam, but I wonder if it be easier if, as tabstorm said, he just didn't have it 23:59:44 most things you can summon at that point 23:59:47 that arrent tormenters 23:59:49 you do not give a shit 23:59:55 because you have lots of defense