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Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:57:33 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: _Jordan_] 00:59:03 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:02:44 -!- rophy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:22 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:27 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 01:11:31 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:12:16 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:26 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:47 |amethyst: pleasingfungus: yea I'm running new webtiles on DBRO. seems to work OK 01:22:15 it's running in a separate chroot set up identically to CBRO (and CSZO/CLAN too probably) 01:22:58 the conversion script to json worked fine after I broke it and edlothiol fixed it (had to add a missing variable or something) 01:25:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:54:23 -!- GhostSonOfGhost has quit [Quit: AndroIRC 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07:55:07 -!- TendaAway has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:39 -!- TendaAway is now known as FatShack 08:00:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:00:57 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:04 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:18:42 semi hypothetical question 08:18:54 can an enemy cast or zot triggered tornado launch the player into lava/deep water? 08:22:28 !tell |amethyst yeah, I should do that. 08:22:29 Lasty_: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 08:30:12 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:31:22 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:14 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 08:41:40 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:40 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:46:13 !tell ackack Not a hypothetical: !lg * pan (( ktyp=lava || ktyp=water )) 08:46:14 Grunt: OK, I'll let ackack know. 08:47:49 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:48:50 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:42 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:59:40 !send lava PleasingFungus 08:59:41 Sending PleasingFungus to lava. 08:59:52 * PleasingFungus sizzles! 09:00:03 PleasingFungus slowly immerses himself in the lava. 09:00:07 (todo tune up salamanders) 09:00:10 * PleasingFungus Sizzel's! 09:00:19 oops, off by an l 09:00:54 good morning! 09:02:26 !send mon-spell-slots PleasingFungus 09:02:27 Sending PleasingFungus to mon-spell-slots. 09:02:32 noo 09:02:36 (could be worse) 09:02:39 !send beam.cc PleasingFungus 09:02:39 Sending PleasingFungus to beam.cc. 09:02:43 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:44 nooooo 09:02:49 I was thinking of working on irradiate 09:02:57 mm 09:03:04 the beam is tricky, tho 09:03:10 I'm about to leave for a good chunk of the day but I can help you with that after I get back. 09:03:14 ah, thanks! 09:03:21 !irradiate PleasingFungus 09:03:26 * PleasingFungus sizzles! 09:03:33 ...or perhaps 'warps and deforms'? 09:03:37 *twists 09:03:38 PleasingFungus shudders with the release of wild magical energies! 09:03:43 Wild. 09:04:06 -!- fridurmus has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:04:44 * Grunt looks slightly unstable. 09:04:55 (todo remove a lot of the gratuitous instances of teleself) 09:04:57 * Grunt disappears! 09:05:10 replace them all with tele other 09:05:17 ref: that orb run tomb hellwing death 09:05:53 fr: "shaft other"??? 09:26:39 -!- raikaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:26:41 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 09:35:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:34 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:28 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:43:51 -!- secularist has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:09 -!- secularist has quit [Changing host] 09:46:45 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:46:45 -!- fridurmus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:45 -!- nicholas982_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:48:42 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:51:27 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:08 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:53:32 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:21 !tell ontoclasm btw if you want to touch up/replace my placeholder hydra form icon, I wouldn't object 09:54:21 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 09:54:33 btw/fyi 09:56:49 -!- Noom_afk has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:02:08 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:06:40 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:07:11 oh 10:07:14 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:19 doy broke resting while across deep water from polearm enemies 10:07:27 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:33 hi ontoclasm! 10:07:43 hi 10:07:43 ontoclasm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:07:44 !messages 10:07:44 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (13m 23s ago): btw if you want to touch up/replace my placeholder hydra form icon, I wouldn't object 10:08:24 also autotravel while across deep water from etc 10:08:52 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:09:16 how did i do that 10:10:40 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:12:17 remember how you made resting work while monsters were behind glass 10:14:25 i just tweaked the search distance 10:14:25 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:14:25 i didn't do anything that should affect polearms 10:14:25 as far as i can remember? 10:14:27 well I mean it's not polearm specific 10:14:28 just 10:14:32 if you rest while across deep water from an enemy 10:14:37 they can't path to you, so it's "safe" 10:14:40 b u t 10:15:13 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:33 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:33 well, again, if this is an issue now, it was an issue before too 10:15:44 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:15:47 just with different amounts of travel required to go around the water 10:15:50 oh. probably 10:16:19 maybe there should be a separate check for monsters that we know are using polearms, or something 10:16:27 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: there is a check for known ranged attacks, but that doesn't include reaching 10:16:27 |amethyst: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:16:52 yeah, sounds like adding that would be a better idea 10:16:57 <|amethyst> !tell wheals I think rip_callbacks is safe to merge? but I don't remember now why I didn't 10:16:57 |amethyst: OK, I'll let wheals know. 10:17:13 <|amethyst> in practice doing that right is difficult 10:17:42 <|amethyst> because you wouldn't want a polearm to block resting if there water is two-wide everywhere 10:17:47 <|amethyst> s/there/the/ 10:18:30 <|amethyst> or if there's a buffer between you and the water 10:18:39 <|amethyst> you'd want to see if the monster can path to anything within radius 2 of you 10:20:47 <|amethyst> also, possibly ms_ranged_spell isn't fully correct? 10:21:12 oh boy 10:21:27 <|amethyst> s/ms/_ms/ 10:21:39 anyway probably limited range is relevant anyway, for short-range monster spells... 10:21:41 but yeah tricky 10:22:18 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:21 -!- |amethyst has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:22:28 -!- |amethys1 is now known as |amethyst 10:23:59 doy sorry for the j'accuse 10:24:03 (: 10:26:13 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:27:31 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:55 <|amethyst> Pikachu, I accuse you! 10:31:48 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:33:10 -!- Samadhi_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:34:00 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:57 -!- meatpath has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:43:59 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20141004030203]] 10:44:48 I'm about to interview an applicant and I want to see if they can read and interpret ugly code. |amethyst, got any good examples I can use? 10:45:31 "here read this crawl code" 10:45:56 tabstorm: yeah, exactly. :D 10:46:04 I may well make them do that :p 10:46:19 hmm 10:46:25 i had a thought earlier: 10:46:34 GDA should be 21 ER 10:46:52 ??badcode 10:46:52 source[1/4]: Browse the Git repository at http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git or, if you must, http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 10:46:58 ??badcode[2 10:46:58 badcode[2/4]: https://twitter.com/crawlcode 10:47:38 for some reason GDA is 25 despite having 2 less AC than CPA 10:47:40 the trick is to find crawlcode that you could understand w/o context, in theory, but which is also not easy. 10:47:53 i dont know code at all 10:51:01 its on the to-do list since obviously its needed to actually.. make roguelikes 10:51:01 Lasty_: tentacle display code (it's vastly improved over what it was a few months ago but it's still a huge forest of switch statements i think) 10:51:01 ontoclasm: which file is that in? 10:51:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:01 so yeah, hardmode would be 0.13 tentacle code 10:51:01 uhm 10:51:01 haha 10:51:01 tilepick.cc i think 10:51:01 well, this is just an intro-level position . . . 10:51:01 "tell me about these tentacles" 10:51:01 yup definitely won't scare away anyone 10:51:01 haha 10:51:01 well, i managed to at least decipher it, and i barely know c++ 10:51:01 haha, fair enough. But you have crawlcontext 10:51:01 mm 10:51:01 could do one of the weird iterators 10:51:01 like i think we have an los iterator somewhere 10:51:55 Bah, no time left. I'll just have to give that a miss and prepare further ahead next time. :p 10:52:45 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:45 -!- shnurlf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:59:50 gda is supposed to be like new alchemist, 21 ER would ruin it 11:01:05 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:25 CPA is incredibly rare (compared to GDA anyway), it's allowed to be a bit better 11:02:44 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:46 -!- mamgar has quit [Client Quit] 11:03:05 !tell roctavian big fan of those randart hats (possibly esp. the first one) 11:03:05 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let roctavian know. 11:03:37 !tell tabstorm gda also has rf+ rc+ rpois 11:03:37 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let tabstorm know. 11:06:46 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:57 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:07:29 -!- debo has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:08:29 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:10:42 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:35 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:39 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:15:28 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:32 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:42 -!- Noom_afk has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:20:13 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:03 -!- hauzer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:21:26 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24:05 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:29:13 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:49 -!- tonio213 has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:30:06 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:31:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:33:52 -!- questions has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:41:47 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:52 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:55 -!- Kellhus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:15 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:12 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:14 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:03 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:54:48 huh, artefact war axe kind of looks like a hammer 11:58:12 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:45 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:07:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:15:48 -!- shnurlf has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:16:17 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:17:03 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:17:42 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1182-g63423bb (34) 12:19:31 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:21:21 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:22:45 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:20 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Client Quit] 12:25:30 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 12:26:29 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:31:02 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:32:08 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:27 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:36 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:29 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:53 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:00:19 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:41 -!- jefkin has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:08:07 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:09:48 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:48 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:18 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:36 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:40 -!- GhostSonOfGhost has quit [] 13:25:01 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:02 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:39 -!- Smello has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:47:20 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:53:58 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:07 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:19 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:30 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:59:38 !irradiate PleasingFungus 14:02:52 -!- Annabella has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:35 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:05:19 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:48 !send Grunt Found Plog's Jevellery Schoppe. 14:12:48 Sending Found Plog's Jevellery Schoppe. to Grunt. 14:13:20 !send PleasingFungus Plog the pandemonium lord 14:13:21 Sending Plog the pandemonium lord to PleasingFungus. 14:13:34 Aaaaargh! 14:13:43 !send PleasingFungus Aaaarggghhhhh! 14:13:43 Sending Aaaarggghhhhh! to PleasingFungus. 14:14:55 -!- zvx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:28 close enough 14:15:46 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:51 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:16:16 !send close quarters PleasingFungus 14:16:16 Sending PleasingFungus to close quarters. 14:16:57 ? 14:17:09 !send PleasingFungus close calls 14:17:09 Sending close calls to PleasingFungus. 14:19:00 -!- read has quit [Quit: class, bye.] 14:24:58 -!- teflonbiscuit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:29:54 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:31:49 -!- sgun_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:32:25 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:32 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:37:01 -!- Voker57 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:01 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:10 mmm, sweet removing... 14:42:10 gammafunk: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 14:43:15 * PleasingFungus removes gammafunk! 14:43:20 ... 14:43:21 * PleasingFungus removes himself! 14:43:24 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20141009030201]] 14:43:40 rip 14:43:43 !remove gammafunk 14:44:40 in essense, I'm removing myself right now 14:44:44 !tell PleasingFungus what only matters is the latest possible Sif! 14:44:44 gammafunk: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 14:44:48 dang...... 14:45:27 I'm going to push a branch no_jump that removes jump-attack entirely, but leaves all the infrastructure needed for shadow step 14:45:32 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:45 We can think of shadow step as jump attack, for role-playing purposes 14:45:49 it's better anyways 14:46:00 I dunno 14:46:07 compared to jump attack in some ways 14:46:08 it's merely 14:46:10 !glasses 14:46:10 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 14:46:11 a shadow 14:46:33 Grunt: have you used the lantern of shadows?! shadows OP 14:47:35 oh hey guys 14:47:36 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:47:41 hi...... 14:47:59 i’ve been playing dwarf fortress for a few weeks and i’ve forgotten how to git pull kinda 14:48:00 well 14:48:19 !tell wheals nice! I'm not sure if that'd be a 60, 70, or 80k if you went to all 15, since I don't know how much you explore/rest; Next time go for over 20-25mil points! 14:48:19 gammafunk: OK, I'll let wheals know. 14:48:24 i have a difference in my local files, whatever it’s called 14:48:36 i have to stash 14:48:38 i don’t remember how 14:48:42 i think i have to stash 14:48:50 lobf: I'm curious about the connection to dwarf fortress and git pull 14:48:56 Has DF so melted your brain? 14:49:05 "I've been doing something else for a while and I want to update my crawl code" 14:49:20 haha, i’ve just forgotten the process to compile when i hit this problem 14:49:25 history | grep git? 14:49:48 there’s a sash and a commit code 14:49:58 er 14:49:58 command 14:50:14 history | grep make 14:50:18 to see your last make command 14:50:41 history | grep grunt to see your last grunt command 14:50:46 nah that’s not it 14:50:48 here’s my error 14:50:49 error: Your local changes to the following files would be overwritten by merge: 14:50:50 crawl-ref/settings/init.txt 14:50:50 Please, commit your changes or stash them before you can merge. 14:50:55 * Grunt hears a grunt. 14:51:02 you've edited the init file 14:51:05 which is part of the repo 14:51:19 so there’s a way around it 14:51:22 lobf: copy that file to ~/.crawlrc or platform equivalent and then revert it 14:51:28 -!- asdu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:51:34 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:51:35 but there is a command for it 14:51:35 or, git stash; do the update; git stash pop 14:51:39 git stash 14:51:46 that is the one 14:51:56 sure, that saves it in a stash; lots of things you could do to handle that problem 14:52:05 * Grunt stuffs gammafunk into a stash. 14:52:09 personally I'd put your actual crawlrc in ~/.crawlrc 14:52:09 that was the way i was doing it before 14:52:14 and then is it git stash commit? 14:52:19 and just use that file and don't edit the init.txt one 14:52:26 git stash pop 14:52:36 or: git stash apply && git stash drop 14:52:56 lobf: my advice is to use ~/.crawlrc for your rc and don't make changes to that init.txt file 14:52:56 pop doesn;t sound familiar 14:53:06 how do i do that 14:53:27 cp crawl-ref/settings/init.txt ~/.crawlrc 14:53:29 for example 14:53:42 depending on where you are directory-wise 14:54:07 and then git checkout crawl-ref/settings/init.txt 14:54:16 will reset the init.txt to what's in the repo 14:54:30 or git reset --hard to do the same 14:54:42 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:54:54 .crushed 14:54:55 54. Sharkman1231 the Eclecticist (L17 DsVM of Ashenzari), thrown by an octopode crusher (kmap: cheibrodos_shoals_oceanic_diplomacy) on Shoals:2 on 2014-10-08 00:25:48, with 188760 points after 36649 turns and 1:51:01. 14:54:58 .gmap 14:55:04 61. LiLin the Transmogrifier (L12 DrTm of Cheibriados), slain by a dire elephant on Lair:7 (gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake) on 2014-10-08 14:53:58, with 26110 points after 16049 turns and 0:35:42. 14:55:10 .elrank 14:55:11 1058 games for * (br=lair lvl>2 lvl<8 kmap!~entry kmap!~uniq kmap!~special_ kmap!~altar kmap!=): 68x bobbens_ice_dragon_lair, 48x ice2_lemuel, 46x gammafunk_lair_enchanted_lake, 43x dragon1_lemuel, 41x dpeg_oklob_gauntlet, 38x minmay_lindwurm_lava, 37x forest_paths, 35x minmay_lair_drake_nest, 33x kilobyte_rumbling_trees, 30x worms_lemuel, 24x minmay_lair_venomous_thicket, 24x grunt_megastairs_2, ... 14:55:21 * gammafunk shakes his fist at ice2_lemuel 14:55:39 * Grunt shakes gammafunk. 14:56:05 * gammafunk gestures. Grunt is shattered! 14:56:51 * Grunt seems unharmed. 14:56:57 !glaciate gammafunk 14:56:58 Grunt gestures. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs gammafunk! 14:57:43 !shatter grunt 14:57:49 fr: 14:58:07 !firestorm grunt 14:59:02 !tornado gammafunk 14:59:16 !send gammafunk the +5 whirlwind axe {elec, RMsl} 14:59:17 Sending the +5 whirlwind axe {elec, RMsl} to gammafunk. 15:01:37 -!- Crorem has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:06:41 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:07:12 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:07:21 !dragonscall grunt 15:07:21 gammafunk gestures. gammafunk calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples grunt!!! x3 15:07:56 !cmd !dragonscall $nick calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples ${*}!!! x3 15:07:56 Unknown command: $nick calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples ${*}!!! x3 15:08:40 !cmd !dragonscall .echo $nick calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples ${*}!!! x3 15:08:41 Redefined command: !dragonscall => .echo $nick calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples ${*}!!! x3 15:09:32 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:11:34 -!- TZer0 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:12:14 gammafunk, fr: make it use different dragons <3 15:13:08 yeah, good idea 15:13:14 My sequell-foo is not yet strong 15:13:19 s/foo/fu/ 15:13:20 >:( 15:13:28 my sequell-bar 15:13:41 fr rename -sequell to ##sequell-bar 15:13:46 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:02 !send ontoclasm the +5 whirlwind axe {elec, RMsl} 15:14:02 Sending the +5 whirlwind axe {elec, RMsl} to ontoclasm. 15:14:25 * ontoclasm phases out as the attack passes right through him. 15:14:53 dang. 15:16:30 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:17:26 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:15 gammafunk: that was, in fact, the latest possible sif 15:18:15 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:18:23 ...and then I went into the temple, saw sif, went out, cleared another floor, realized I hadn't actually *worshipped* sif, and went back. 15:18:32 mega pro 15:18:58 sif shift 15:19:39 gammafunk: imo randomize the dragon type 15:19:44 iron dragon, storm dragon, etc 15:19:49 oh 15:19:50 grunt said the same thing 15:19:55 great minds!!! 15:19:55 PleasingFungus: hi...... 15:20:03 Grunt: <3 15:20:56 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:28 !send PleasingFungus Sending :( 15:25:17 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:26 -!- ruwin has quit [] 15:28:32 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:28:49 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:29:53 !dragonscall PleasingFungus 15:29:53 gammafunk calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples PleasingFungus!!! x3 15:30:09 !dragonscall gammafunk 15:30:09 Grunt calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples gammafunk!!! x3 15:30:18 * gammafunk casts aura of abjuration 15:31:19 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:00 PleasingFungus: the worst is when sif isn't in the effectively d:8 temple nor on d:9, and you missed that single-tile altar on e.g. d:2 15:32:05 that's what I mean by latest possible sif 15:32:35 Of course there's only acceptable action at that point 15:32:38 geekosaur: so git stash pop error’d because of my init.txt conflict 15:32:45 so i am vindicaed 15:32:50 ahh 15:32:52 uh 15:33:09 well, suppose that happens if your change overlapped with whatever you pulled 15:33:13 veni vidi vindicaed 15:33:23 heh 15:33:36 dammit there is another command 15:33:38 but that is why the first thing I told you was to copy to .crawlrc and revert, and mentioned git stash only after because you insisted there was a git way to deal 15:33:44 there was 15:33:49 i used to do this all in terminal 15:33:58 there is only if it is not an overlapping commit 15:34:06 if there is then you get to deal with git merge foo 15:34:08 which, ugh 15:34:15 yeah, the point is put your init modifications in your home-dir crawlrc so your changes don't go into the repo 15:35:52 L - a Fen Folio. 15:35:53 unless you really are trying a bunch of configs or something 15:35:54 !!!! 15:35:56 the first time I've found it!!!! 15:36:02 !lm PleasingFungus 15:36:03 5391. [2014-10-09 19:39:22] PleasingFungus the Summoner (L10 TeSu of Sif Muna) entered the Lair of Beasts on turn 8614. (D:10) 15:36:12 MEGA cool imo 15:36:19 i found two 15:36:19 don't know why you aren't playing Tm to test your own spell!!! 15:36:21 only a real cool dude would make a thing like this 15:36:23 on my trog charater 15:36:24 !send PleasingFungus dogfooding 15:36:24 Sending dogfooding to PleasingFungus. 15:36:42 i thought about using it that game if i found it though! but i found trog so i kinda had to do that 15:36:43 gammafunk: my plan is to wait until I implement more of the half-dozen other tm things i'm planning before going tm heavy. 15:36:58 otherwise I'll get sick of it before I get to the *really* good stuff! 15:37:25 what prompted this tm work? Just you like making the spells? That's fine, but please don't tell me it's because tm is underpowered or doesn't have good spells! 15:37:30 someone said my hydra form icon looked like a dude with four dicks which was deeply offensive to me :( 15:38:01 rip...... 15:38:03 mm. basically my feeling is that there's a lot of unexplored design space in tm - both in terms of forms and otherwise 15:38:26 also ignite poison and its other poorly concieved pals 15:38:28 shapeshifter form 15:38:41 it feels like a school that could be more than the "unarmed combat with magic" school. 15:38:51 hydra form doesn't help that at all, of course, it was just a fun thing to make 15:39:46 I'd like to make necromutation into a thing that retains the great no-hunger, no-potion, undead resist thing, but's viable for 3-rune 15:40:21 !death the lich 15:40:22 Death has come for the lich... 15:40:49 !send Grunt the master blaster 15:40:49 Sending the master blaster to Grunt. 15:41:05 !glaciate Master Blaster 15:41:06 Grunt gestures. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs Master Blaster! 15:41:20 Master Blaster (13L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 1500 | AC/EV: 20/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold++, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d23 / 8d24), glaciate (10-198), miasma breath (3d20), teleport self | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:41:20 %??master blaster 15:41:30 gonna take a few of those... 15:42:08 miasma breath, hah 15:42:33 gammafunk: oh, necromut is one of the big things that I had no ideas for fixing 15:43:02 Well it's a fun spell for 15-runers, and I don't want to see it go. Maybe when I'm done protecting Sif from harm I can get into that 15:43:27 ...don't gods usually protect their followers from harm and not vice-versa :b 15:43:39 Grunt: I am the Royal Summoner 15:44:16 imo you're more of a royal pain in thet 15:44:18 anyway 15:44:22 <_< 15:44:56 takes one to know one, I guess 15:45:01 -!- Limulus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:45:42 dang...... 15:47:22 oh, I wasn't talking about removing it. just didn't know what to do with it 15:47:27 I'm not you, gammafunk! 15:47:55 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:48:09 !remove PleasingFungus 15:48:58 <|amethyst> re the asterion cleaving crash, it happens because attack::calc_damage -> attack::player_stab -> alert_nearby_monsters 15:49:19 <|amethyst> and alert_nearby_monsters causes behaviour events, which make the SW realise its master is gone 15:49:59 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:01 <|amethyst> could check for a gone defender immediately after the call to player_stab() but that sounds hackish 15:50:11 hrm, I recall a lot of checks in the spectre to not do anything if its master is gone, but I guess we're missing a check? 15:50:15 <|amethyst> maybe postponing that awaken until later would be better 15:50:23 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ? 15:50:30 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, it's doing what it's supposed to do 15:50:35 <|amethyst> gammafunk: which is cease to exist 15:50:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the problem is that the attack doesn't expect the defender to cease to exist between those two lines 15:50:58 oh, ok 15:53:08 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:56:15 -!- Jho has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:56:15 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 15:57:41 -!- FatShack is now known as TendaAway 16:01:07 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:03:47 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:14 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:30 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1183-g5b05a17: Don't crash when cleaving into a doomed SW. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b05a17e8c51 16:06:49 good commit message 16:07:04 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:07 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:09:46 %git HEAD^{/doomed}^^{/doomed} 16:09:46 07|amethyst02 * 0.16-a0-290-ga270a62: Don't crash on branded melee against a doomed spectral weapon (#8445) 10(6 weeks ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a270a6281f6b 16:09:51 %git HEAD^{/doomed}^^{/doomed}^^{/doomed} 16:09:52 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-2058-ga0d546f: Factor weapon_rarity() out into Weapon_prop[] 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 59+ 142-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a0d546fd1eca 16:10:08 %git HEAD^{/doomed}^^{/doomed}^^{/doomed}^^{/doomed} 16:10:09 07Grunt02 * 0.13-a0-3103-g6e2730e: An old vault design of mine (by request of kilobyte). 10(1 year, 1 month ago, 1 file, 68+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6e2730e86ef1 16:11:08 !send Grunt doom 16:11:08 Sending doom to Grunt. 16:11:24 !send PleasingFungus DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM 16:11:25 Sending DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM to PleasingFungus. 16:11:30 oooo 16:13:49 Hm. Forget Spell is listed as having a failure chance in the a-menu. 16:13:57 Wasn't that supposed to have been removed a while ago 16:13:58 ? 16:14:04 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:14:41 seems like it was 16:14:42 forgotten about 16:19:10 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:39 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:21:04 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:30 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:22:45 -!- Harkenn has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:49 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:26:16 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:17 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:09 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:17 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:32:45 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:55 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:35:27 -!- jefkin has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37:20 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:38:03 -!- woop__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:38:48 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:57 -!- CacoS has quit [] 16:42:12 -!- potatolizard has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:50 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: on y dort] 16:44:27 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:01 I was thinking about no-backtracking god 16:50:32 one neat ability might be an instant tele (no delay) that applied dimensional anchor on landing, as a cooldown 16:51:06 would it allow for ctele? 16:51:12 absolutely not. 16:51:21 good 16:51:21 could do something like randomly pick a few spots and choose the one furthest away, if it needed to be stronger 16:51:32 but I think instant tele is good and cool 16:51:35 as a god ability 16:51:42 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:52:00 imo you shouldn't 16:52:04 backtrack on your design like this 16:52:06 !!!! 16:52:33 ... 16:52:35 hmm 16:53:00 the main problem with backtracking god was finding good abilities that synergized well with the mechanics + theme; instant tele feels like it could work 16:53:01 as a thing 16:53:37 also vaguely feeling like it might be better for it to be a no-invo god, with powers based purely on piety. not sure about that 16:53:54 piety or powerful combo bonuses 16:54:00 As an emergency ability, teleporting ranges between amazing and terrible, based on where you end up. Sometimes it puts you in situations much worse than you left. Teleportin instantly and then not being able to escape could be awfful. 16:55:09 I'd rather cut the anchor and make it cost lots of piety, or have some kind of special timer to allow regular blinking/tele 16:56:13 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:19 I'm really really reluctant to add Even More Icons to the status bar 16:56:37 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:50 yeah, not a special icon 16:57:08 what's wrong with making the status bar 16:57:10 !glasses 16:57:10 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 16:57:11 iconic 16:57:12 ?????? 16:57:40 er, status light types, not icons 16:57:40 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:28 hm. could combine the instant teleport with the time stop effect 16:58:37 then it'd be almost guaranteed to be a net positive 16:58:45 (does the colour display invert when you time stop??) 16:59:04 (it should!!) 17:00:40 teleport + timestop would be a pretty effective escape ability 17:00:49 Quite Powerful 17:01:50 o 17:02:22 -!- fridurmus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02:33 I still kind of like invocable +slay/+spellpow as a thing, but idk if this god is the right place 17:02:45 maybe not 17:02:56 That almost sounds like a Ru-ism. 17:03:02 (You draw out your inner strength!) 17:03:05 heh 17:03:07 ivokable might/brill pots? 17:03:11 sounds familiar... 17:03:29 clearly instead it's time for the enormous can of worms that is Invoke Challenge By Combat 17:03:41 (not to be confused with the enormous can of worms that is time stop) 17:03:59 PleasingFungus warps the flow of time around him! 17:04:08 invocable "better at killdudes" is pretty well-worn territory, and this specific variant doesn't sound particularly interesting . . . 17:04:23 feh! 17:04:51 I mean, I considered and rejected something like that for Ru 17:04:53 I should pull all that god stuff onto its own page 17:04:57 (A Lasty blasts the channel with cutting remarks!) 17:05:05 loading the whole consolidated gods page is a pita 17:05:13 I wasn't trying to be mean. :( 17:05:17 oh I had a Qazlal wrath idea the other day 17:05:18 I was 17:05:30 Orbs for fire! 17:05:49 Lasty: no it's fine, I was just being disgruntled 17:05:51 condense the elementals in with environmental effects - flame clouds + fire elementals, flood of water (phial-ish effect which does impact damage) with water elementals, ... 17:06:12 could work, though direct damage as wrath is pretty unpopular 17:06:27 Grunt: players are often wrathful that the los ability doesn't seem to do much even with close to 15 invo 17:06:33 and with Qazlal/Ru, there's more of it around than ever 17:06:50 It seems somewhat swingy at hitting things 17:07:01 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 17:07:07 gammafunk: it's very good in certain situations, but iirc it randomly chooses locations in LOS, which makes it paradoxically much better in close quarters 17:07:10 close/tight 17:07:13 er, as wrath -- man, missed the important part of that sentence 17:07:16 sorry 17:07:19 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:08:07 I think it becomes mega-heug with massive invo, but because of how it operates, it seems to be a bit disappointing at not heug invo (perhaps just for the reason PleasingFungus says) 17:08:29 -!- Calisca2 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:08:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:41 ??heug 17:08:42 I don't have a page labeled heug in my learndb. 17:08:44 yeah, people get grumpy about veh wrath (though not that many people abandon veh anyway) 17:09:17 but sudden "you die" like a bolt from the blue (so to speak) feels less "fair" even than getting a squad of titans dropped on you, probably 17:09:22 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Vehumet" 17:09:23 56. LemonChief the Summoner (L9 DESu), incinerated by the wrath of Vehumet (sticky flame) in Bailey (bailey_axe_4) on 2014-10-04 10:54:04, with 2616 points after 9437 turns and 0:54:57. 17:09:32 mm 17:09:32 is timbw still the max 17:09:37 yeah, raw damage is pretty awful 17:09:38 also Su of veh 17:09:41 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Vehumet" -2 17:09:42 55/56. Sonny the Ninja (L18 VpEn of Lugonu), killed by a flash freeze invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on Elf:2 on 2014-09-28 03:39:41, with 208040 points after 47812 turns and 5:49:48. 17:09:50 well 17:09:54 he must have died in a flash 17:09:58 !lg* ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=tdam x=tdam 17:10:02 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=tdam x=tdam 17:10:03 56. [tdam=80] dlk the Conjurer (L12 HECj of Ashenzari), mangled by a Balrug (a +2,+0 demon whip of reaching) (created by the wrath of Vehumet) on Lair:1 on 2011-07-26 22:26:56, with 21865 points after 17167 turns and 1:12:10. 17:10:09 .. 17:10:11 heh 17:10:12 what 17:10:12 tabstorm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:10:29 that doesn't seem like the wrath of veh 17:10:44 well 17:10:47 but well done all the same Balrug 17:10:48 "2011" 17:10:53 -!- GhostSonOfGhost has quit [] 17:10:56 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=tdam x=tdam -2 17:10:57 55/56. [tdam=76] tcjsavannah the Meteorologist (L25 DrAE of Makhleb), killed by a great blast of fire invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on Elf:3 on 2014-09-15 02:10:39, with 539280 points after 76207 turns and 9:52:27. 17:11:04 oh good 17:11:04 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:05 Dang 17:11:05 firestorm 17:11:13 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=tdam x=tdam -3 17:11:14 54/56. [tdam=74] snow the Eclecticist (L15 SpWz of Zin), annihilated by an eldritch tentacle (called by the wrath of Vehumet) on D:1 on 2011-05-13 01:34:48, with 81271 points after 81244 turns and 2:29:54. 17:11:26 old veh again 17:11:34 but d:1 eldritch is nice 17:11:51 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=sdam x=sdam recent 17:11:52 17. [sdam=76] tcjsavannah the Meteorologist (L25 DrAE of Makhleb), killed by a great blast of fire invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on Elf:3 on 2014-09-15 02:10:39, with 539280 points after 76207 turns and 9:52:27. 17:11:55 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=sdam x=sdam recent -2 17:11:56 16/17. [sdam=52] Sonny the Ninja (L18 VpEn of Lugonu), killed by a flash freeze invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on Elf:2 on 2014-09-28 03:39:41, with 208040 points after 47812 turns and 5:49:48. 17:11:58 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=sdam x=sdam recent -3 17:11:59 15/17. [sdam=42] cavinche the Spry (L15 FeTm of Sif Muna), killed by an exploding ball lightning (created by the wrath of Vehumet) on Snake:1 on 2014-05-23 08:38:22, with 91183 points after 61871 turns and 7:05:50. 17:12:16 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" max=sdam x=sdam recent -4 17:12:16 thought you could go veh->sif, did you 17:12:17 14/17. [sdam=33] ashdolphin the Sneak (L8 GrMo of Xom), killed by a stone arrow invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on D:7 (hangedman_decor_points) on 2014-07-15 00:39:27, with 1386 points after 5577 turns and 0:51:30. 17:13:27 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" recent s=ckaux 17:13:27 17 games for * (ikiller~~'the wrath of Veh' recent): 6x stone arrow, 3x puff of frost, 2x sticky flame, flash freeze, bolt of energy, great blast of fire, puff of flame, , flame tongue 17:13:34 stone arrow too strong 17:14:02 timbw died to crystal spear in early wrath reform, which I think was veh, but that was probably 0.13 17:14:13 or 0.14-a? 17:15:03 timbw has many good deaths 17:15:03 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" cv>=0.13-a s=ckaux 17:15:04 21 games for * (ikiller~~'the wrath of Veh' cv>=0.13-a): 8x stone arrow, 3x puff of frost, 2x sticky flame, great blast of fire, orb of electricity, flash freeze, crystal spear, bolt of energy, puff of flame, , flame tongue 17:15:14 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" cv>=0.13-a max=sdam x=sdam 17:15:15 21. [sdam=76] tcjsavannah the Meteorologist (L25 DrAE of Makhleb), killed by a great blast of fire invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on Elf:3 on 2014-09-15 02:10:39, with 539280 points after 76207 turns and 9:52:27. 17:15:18 !lg * ikiller~~"the wrath of Veh" cv>=0.13-a max=sdam x=sdam -2 17:15:19 20/21. [sdam=72] hurdos the Necromancer (L19 HENe of Ashenzari), killed by an orb of electricity invoked by the wrath of Vehumet on Vaults:3 (nicolae_vaults_blade_armed_guards) on 2014-02-17 21:12:08, with 294197 points after 40074 turns and 11:34:01. 17:15:27 !send tabstorm Dragon Form 17:15:28 Sending Dragon Form to tabstorm. 17:15:28 -!- _miek has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:15:38 ive never cast that 17:15:40 hmm 17:15:49 tabstorm: have you seen timbw's Dragon Form death 17:16:02 it is amazing 17:16:20 Did it involve 17:16:20 rc- 17:16:29 Yes. 17:16:30 yes 17:16:32 ah 17:16:42 I've only seen his hydra simulacrum death 17:16:45 oh 17:16:51 then you have seen it :( 17:16:53 due to rc- in fda 17:16:56 he wanst in DF 17:16:59 what 17:16:59 it was in FDA in swamp 17:17:04 Let's talk auxiliary attacks. You get one chance to use each one per attack, which means that you can bite a monster 5 times by swinging a max-delay quick blade in the span of time it takes to bite something once while wielding a base-delay halberd. 17:17:04 on an ogre 17:17:06 er 17:17:23 ... 17:17:24 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:29 !lg timbw swamp status~~dragon -tv 17:17:29 lasty: short blades are trash so at least if you get muts somehow they are worthwhile 17:17:29 1. timbw, XL18 OgFi, T:57007 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 17:17:45 Also, your chance of having any aux attack fire is str+dex/50 making it not that hard to max out 17:17:54 no 17:18:00 er /49 17:18:00 that only counts for VS bite 17:18:02 i think thats only vs 17:18:05 which is very unique in that regard 17:18:12 other ones i think just always go 17:18:17 but have much worse dam 17:18:17 no, that's true for all of them, but the others have additional checks 17:18:20 o 17:18:37 well your sentence isn't true in that regard 17:18:43 whatever basically none of them are good except on early floors except for vs bite 17:18:47 and short blades are also bad 17:18:59 because they do not fire off if str+dex >= 1d49 17:19:00 so i feel its ok for some rare combination (auxs + qb) to be decent 17:19:29 I'd propose that after you perform a melee attack, you have a scaled chance based on str/dex to perform an aux attack, leading to a possibility of multiple aux attacks per attack 17:19:51 whats the goal of changing it 17:19:56 so basically, uh 17:20:01 nerf? 17:20:02 multiplying the result of your str+dex roll 17:20:11 !nerf tabstorm 17:20:11 * Sequell nerfs tabstorm!!! 17:20:15 i have rNerf 17:20:16 and then taking random2(50) from it 17:20:23 until it is < random2(50) 17:20:28 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-1183-g5b05a17 (34) 17:20:31 and you multiply the roll by the action delay* 17:20:53 I dont understand why you want to make it more complicated 17:21:10 don't confuse Lasty and Bloax, please 17:21:12 tabstorm: no, not a nerf 17:21:20 !nerf Lasty 17:21:20 * Sequell nerfs Lasty!!! 17:21:25 ok 17:21:26 I'm interested in making aux attacks worse with fast weapons and better with slow ones 17:21:38 Basically I want to make them equally good for all weapons 17:21:50 have you tried playing a character based around auxes and a fast weapon that isnt a VS 17:21:54 or trying to 17:22:36 er 17:22:38 tried to* 17:22:41 wait 17:22:55 Why not just put a multiplier on the damage based on your atk speed 17:23:01 kind of lame but it gets the desired effect 17:23:30 multiplier means pretty big variance 17:24:06 well, i'm sure you could have some f(dam) that's regular enough 17:24:10 Huge Variance 17:24:11 and f(speed) 17:24:19 Varianshnia 17:24:20 <_< 17:24:24 isn't high variance like a gaol 17:24:27 goal* in crawl combat 17:24:32 or no 17:24:34 well we like to use linear/additive things 17:24:43 yeah, get enough variance and you can really feel like a prisoner to luck 17:24:46 well it's not like random2avg exists 17:24:50 right 17:25:15 well idk what function you want 17:25:19 it's not like random2 and linear/additive things exist, right 17:25:55 Regardless I dont see why you need to nerf shortblade + aux when ones that aren't VS bite are kind of bad 17:25:56 Yeah my concern is how this would fall out for slow weapons 17:26:23 just another reason why autcombat is bad!!! 17:26:23 tabstorm: the goal isn't to nerf anything specifically, it's just to make things less silly/inconsistent 17:26:35 hmm 17:26:58 Lasty: "silly" sounds pretty subjective here; "inconsistent" is another word for "asymmetric" 17:27:01 I don't think it's so much in terms of being "silly" or even inconsistent, but it's a question of what we want the aux to be good for 17:27:04 yeah 17:27:09 well like I said im not sure what the best function is - though imo auxes are so un-noticeable past the early depths 17:27:21 I mean, it's arguably a good idea to use a dagger instead of a whip with an octopode so you can get more tentacle attacks, which are your real damage-dealers . . . 17:27:21 that it might not be worth the effort even 17:27:38 well 17:27:47 but then youd be training shortblades.. 17:27:54 It's not just asymmetrical, it's also not particularly clearly communicated 17:27:54 octopodes don't even have a lot of tentacle attacks like they should have 17:27:58 or you could put xp into a weapon class that is good later 17:28:21 Bloax: yes they do??? 17:28:26 !send Bloax tentacle slaps 17:28:26 Sending tentacle slaps to Bloax. 17:28:31 how many 17:28:40 significantly more than other races get! 17:28:48 that's not even a joke, they get a bonus to tentacle slap trigger rates 17:29:03 well how many slaps do they have 17:29:18 depends on your uc skill and doesn't trigger if you're using a shield or 2h weapon (it is a punch) 17:29:37 also they have tentacle spike attacks (if they have the mut or appendage) (it's a kick) 17:30:39 dang 17:30:42 I get the impression that y'all are fine with the current state of aux attacks? 17:30:47 yes 17:31:11 um. idk about fine about them - they aren't mega distinctive or exciting usually, esp as random muts 17:31:15 if anything they could trigger more often 17:31:24 unless you like The Chei Advantage 17:31:31 everyone likes the chei advantage 17:31:31 well 17:31:32 anyway 17:31:50 if you manage to get the extra slots they often are sort of worse than the ability to wear something in that slot 17:32:10 esp. like.. horns 1 17:32:26 Your +2 helmet of rf+ slay+3 falls away! 17:32:45 I don't know that the current trigger mechanism is that great - certainly it's fairly complex. I don't know that it's fundamentally wrong for aux attacks to be directly linked to attack speed, tho 17:32:56 ??beneficial mutation[2 17:32:56 beneficial mutation[2/2]: A pair of antennae grows on your head! The +1 helmet "Criostry" {rElec rF++} falls away! You feel fantastic! 17:33:03 i mean at least in theory it makes short blades less bad 17:33:17 it's good for them to be somewhat linked to attack speed 17:33:26 because slow weapons are kinda already bad 17:33:34 ummmm 17:33:40 no.. 17:33:50 already bad at not killing things 17:34:14 Unless you mean scythes . . . ? 17:34:24 Well ok VS of chei might do better with a short blade than with a claymore 17:34:44 but thats like.. one race out of 27(?) 17:34:48 27?!?! 17:34:53 or 26 17:34:55 however many we have now 17:34:59 26 :( 17:35:03 todo resume work on salamanders 17:35:07 having aux attacks influence your playstyle (in terms of changing the relative advantages of weapon choices) seems better than the alternative of being purely "-slot +damage" 17:35:16 !send lava Grunt 17:35:17 Sending Grunt to lava. 17:35:17 (where is a dck when you need input on race design) 17:35:19 yea 17:35:23 * Grunt slowly immerses himself in the lava. 17:35:25 Grunt: he'll hate them 17:35:30 ! 17:35:37 what do salamanders do 17:36:02 they're like lava orcs but not bad (?) 17:36:09 Awright, lemme pitch something else: allow players to abandon gods while silenced. 17:36:21 hm, let me attempt to summarise all the various facets that cropped up in various forms when last I was working on this 17:36:26 It simplifies a terrible function and prevents me from having to special-case a Ru message. 17:36:26 Lasty: go for it, man 17:36:29 just do it 17:36:34 seriously 17:36:38 They can swim in lava, obviously. 17:36:45 ...rF+ at XL9 and ++ at 18 17:36:52 just do it 17:36:52 this is not something that requires the full consensus of the grand cabal 17:36:54 wait wait waiiiiiit 17:36:55 lol 17:37:01 my abondonment strats! 17:37:05 theres like no reason for it to ever matter 17:37:10 when you abandon a god 17:37:11 They start at slow 2 but gradually lose that over time!! 17:37:13 so 17:37:15 abandonment 17:37:15 (that was a novel idea then) 17:37:16 grunt: 17:37:18 gammafunk: tell me about your abandonment strats 17:37:21 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:22 itd be better to start at 1.0 17:37:23 and get slower 17:37:26 as they grow bigger 17:37:27 or something 17:37:39 so you dont have naga early game problems 17:37:41 those are not fun 17:37:49 (iirc I was trying to come up with an excuse to make salamander enemies not slow) 17:37:52 haha 17:37:54 o 17:37:56 well 17:37:59 PleasingFungus: find sif. don't ever abandon sif. 17:37:59 monsters are cheaters 17:38:03 here is your excuse: they are cheaters 17:38:03 you dont need an excuse 17:38:05 tabstorm: o/ 17:38:11 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:38:30 !send Grunt hill salamanders 17:38:31 Sending hill salamanders to Grunt. 17:38:41 (they're not quite the same as deep salamanders!) 17:38:44 !send PleasingFungus stone salamanders 17:38:45 Sending stone salamanders to PleasingFungus. 17:38:51 (for example, as they level up, ) 17:38:54 so swim in lava get rf+, rf++ and have speed changes 17:38:59 say is the aux "problem" for shortblades related to the situation known as 17:38:59 salamander klowns 17:39:02 are they like fire nagas 17:39:06 Yeah I didn't get why slow 2 to not slow was good/interesting 17:39:06 hugestats+shortblades+loadsofslaying 17:39:15 Well, no breath weapon, but at least one version I did had mild AF_FIRE melee. 17:39:26 They were medium-sized and had a good dodging apt. 17:39:27 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39:30 IMO, the problem isn't short blades so much as weapons of speed and slow weapons 17:39:32 (nagas being large) 17:39:38 oh 17:39:38 * gammafunk relaxes in his game design couch, on his armchair of game design 17:39:44 I think that's everything that showed up in one version or another. 17:39:49 so youre not going for firenaga 17:39:51 ok 17:40:01 firenaga is boring!!! 17:40:06 well we have regular nagas 17:40:11 would they wear naga barding 17:40:19 Yes. 17:40:21 seeing as they have serpentine taisl 17:40:23 alright 17:40:24 would you rename the barding 17:40:31 serpent barding 17:40:31 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Screenies/auxes_be_stronk.png 17:40:32 ! 17:40:37 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:38 tail barding? 17:40:39 eh 17:40:45 serpent is cooler but maybe a little long? 17:40:48 naga barding would still suffice imo 17:40:51 6.4 fighting + 41 str/39 dex (haha wizmode) 17:40:58 Bloax: idgi 17:41:20 maybe when I get home (leaving again in a moment) I will see if I can find the old patches and do up a version with slowdown instead of speedup 17:41:28 (you are not the first person to suggest slowdown) 17:41:31 are we starting the species discussion with bikeshedding? 17:41:37 MarvinPA, we need you!!! 17:41:38 -!- Big_guy has quit [] 17:41:46 rip 17:41:49 * gammafunk sighs whistfully 17:42:54 well 17:42:59 basically slow early game is horrible 17:43:05 sometimes you just die 17:43:20 because of how it is "things your stomp or things that are unkillable" 17:43:21 gone are the days that you had to convince: elliptic, marvinpa, kilobyte, mumra, dracoomega!!! 17:44:34 and then like the only time eliott interacted with me he called me incoherent at the end of the discussion 17:44:40 the Golden Age 17:44:44 Does elliptic know that those days are gone? :D 17:45:00 I'm sure he misses them in part :) 17:45:23 well, in any case, he'll be surprised when I disregard his opinions on things on your advice 17:45:57 I would never cross the elliptic 17:45:59 Very Dangerous 17:46:10 grunt: do these dudes get naga like AC as well 17:46:18 or just "not deformed body + large" 17:46:38 are we really considering a salamander race, and if so, why? 17:47:06 maybe and why not 17:47:06 well some starting point for it is we'd still like a "fire race" and maybe "cold race" 17:47:12 ah 17:47:16 imo ice salamander 17:47:16 or 17:47:19 DEEP YETI 17:47:22 whoever we is in this case 17:47:48 gammafunk: the fire/ice races -- the goal is to have them be thematically aligned, or are there specific fire/ice mechanics to be incorporated? 17:47:52 but I wasn't sure what the progression of slow to not slow would really bring 17:48:15 Lasty: yeah there's just "desire for theme" I'd say for the most part; and to be fair theme is not invalid place to start 17:48:20 hmm actually not slow to slow but can use bardings and such would be pretty fun 17:48:29 they could be diesel but slow 17:48:50 gammafunk: gotcha. Hmm 17:48:51 like nagas except without the brutal early game 17:49:21 , but at the cost of 17:49:32 unless we want "like naga but better" 17:49:41 well theyd have less HP i imagine 17:49:48 sure 17:49:53 would they have the innate ac? 17:49:59 No 17:49:59 Nagas a distinctive and pretty good race. I would be wary of being too similar -- but I'm sure you already have that in mind 17:49:59 ok 17:50:01 fair trade 17:50:08 Just not having deformed body 17:50:14 makes up for quite a bit 17:50:18 nagas only have a brutal early game because someone thought it was a great idea to make them have 1 AC on d:1 17:50:26 until they hit XL3 at which point they have 2 AC!!! 17:50:27 also not Large 17:50:32 means much better evasion 17:50:36 naga (03N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 5 | HP: 17-39 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 303(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 162 | Sp: spit poison (d10) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 17:50:36 %??naga 17:50:38 so they dont need the +AC 17:50:39 salamander (04N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 8 | HP: 42-81 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 1704(fire:8-15) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(40), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 524 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:50:39 %??salamander 17:50:43 huh, they are smaller 17:50:46 yea 17:50:49 I have no good intuition for monster sizes 17:51:01 don't be ashamed 17:51:04 crawl sizes don't make sense 17:51:10 ref also: steam & mottled dragons, which are apparently Big? 17:51:17 mottled dragon (13D) | Spd: 10 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 15, 6 | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05fire, 03poison, 04napalm | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 155 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d4) | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 17:51:17 %??mottled dragon 17:51:21 lel 17:51:29 I honest to god always through they were adorable little minidragons 17:51:31 which I mean, in a sense, 17:51:50 fire drake (04k) | Spd: 12 | HD: 6 | HP: 22-44 | AC/EV: 3/12 | Dam: 8 | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05fire | XP: 342 | Sp: b.flame (3d12) | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 17:51:50 %??fire drake 17:52:00 likewise bigger than a dude 17:52:06 -!- _Jordan_ has quit [Quit: _Jordan_] 17:52:52 well i can just spoil right now that non-VS-bite auxiliaries are actually pretty shitty with short blades 17:52:58 compared to using an actual weapon 17:53:00 "no kidding" 17:53:00 !learn del ru_to_do[-1 17:53:01 Deleted ru to do[6/6]: "you can't call ru while silenced" when you doesn't have any ru abilities yet 17:53:02 lol 17:53:12 because short blades are terrible 17:53:27 true 17:53:39 Just dont do enough damage 17:53:48 unless you have a bunch of slaying, or QB of elec/pain and high necro 17:53:57 but that also works for real weapons.. 17:54:02 or VS bite 17:54:06 the most damaging short blade does as much damage as the falchion you get on d:1 as a shit-tier weapon 17:54:54 when I suggested cutlasses be slightly improved, no one seemed to like the idea . . . 17:55:02 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1184-gdd78dc1: Allow abandoning religion while silenced 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd78dc1505a5 17:55:05 well except, uh 17:55:05 me 17:55:22 well 17:55:22 but nobody listens to bloax because he only plays casters 17:55:45 Isn't accuracy basically irrelevant in crawl past like D:8 17:55:49 that is not the reason no one listens to you, bloax. 17:55:52 not really, no 17:56:01 accuracy is basically always really bad 17:56:18 well ok to be clearer: you're not going to think about weapon accuracy when picking one 17:56:27 that's true, yes 17:56:33 yeah accuracy is really important for the heaviest weapons 17:56:34 mostly because the difference is really small 17:56:40 -!- lgft has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:56:42 because your accuracy is terrible anyhow 17:56:57 og loves his fighting 17:57:05 it's important if you're an ogre on d:3 considering using a gsc 17:57:18 well 17:57:19 but that's an extreme much like ogre aptitudes 17:57:32 I was thinking you could make short blades less bad by like, giving them super-acc 17:57:38 but more delay or something 17:57:48 knife of accuracy? 17:57:53 except that still sucks 17:57:55 yes 17:58:02 didn't it get removed? 17:58:03 clearly just add critical hits to sblades 17:58:07 ??knife_of_accuracy 17:58:07 knife of accuracy[1/4]: +27,-1 thin dagger. Note that weapon to-hit enchantments don't affect stabbing. No longer generated as of 0.13. 17:58:11 yeah 17:58:13 i think PF mentioned that once 17:58:19 and the response was 'no' 17:58:30 ya I had a thread about it in gdd 17:58:32 !!! 17:58:36 I think it was my first gdd post actually 17:58:38 i didnt read it though 17:58:40 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:41 but i assumed the response was 17:58:43 'no' 17:59:00 PleasingFungus: how many golem species did you post in that same thread? 17:59:00 basically 17:59:01 ya basically 17:59:01 i mean it works better in a game like sil where the system is built with crits in mind 17:59:06 gammafunk: only six or so 17:59:09 and you know how to get better crit chances 17:59:12 oh. I had an idea for a new golem monsters 17:59:14 such restraint! 17:59:15 *monster 17:59:18 but I have no idea where it would go 17:59:22 vs. crawl combat: being "lol idk wut" 17:59:28 besides maybe vaults I guess 17:59:33 imo golem race too 17:59:37 giant spellcaster 17:59:39 giant magic race 17:59:46 giant enemy mage 17:59:46 PleasingFungus: well what is the reason that i am a dummy 18:00:00 of I was so busy watching spicerack and removing jump attack.... 18:00:12 Bloax: basically because you are an impossible nag and completely unable to read social signals or recognize when you're not welcome. also incapable of introspection 18:00:21 man I cannot type on this keyboard 18:00:22 decent at spriting tho 18:00:27 dang 18:00:39 man i tried to type on a mac keyboard the other day 18:00:41 was impossibru 18:01:05 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:24 oh, that reminds me i forgot to respond to: 18:01:28 the gda thing 18:01:39 do you think gda should not be below ER 25 then? 18:01:57 so basically things that only happen in crawl 18:01:58 oh it probably should. probably 23 would work 18:02:03 23 is cpa 18:02:05 ya 18:02:12 hmm 18:02:20 mostly because i have utterly stopped caring 18:02:23 2 base ac for 3 resists and being dragon armour (being dragon armour is cool and gives quality bonuses) 18:02:27 well 18:02:40 the rpois is sort of "convenient but not a big deal" 18:02:50 makes draconian pcloud breath less annoying 18:02:55 and its so late spawning 18:02:57 also gold dragon pbreath 18:03:03 which can actually be unpleasant 18:03:11 sometimes 18:03:12 yeah its also kind of anoying 18:03:29 i just felt it was reasonable between plate and CPA esp. since 18:03:31 2 less AC than cpa 18:03:37 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:03:41 and lower enchant cap (I think?) 18:03:50 cpa goes up to 14, yes 18:03:52 enchant cap is based on base ac but 18:03:52 or can it be enchanted to +12 18:03:53 uh 18:03:57 i believe so 18:04:02 good luck getting there bud 18:04:06 do people really max out enchant cap on gda all that often? 18:04:12 ya 18:04:15 Quite rarely on both 18:04:18 so its not really important 18:04:30 its basically about 4 AC worth 18:04:32 of defense 18:04:35 for the resist 18:04:55 ya 18:04:57 ??hat of complete protection 18:04:58 I don't have a page labeled hat_of_complete_protection in my learndb. 18:05:06 acutally 5 because gda has to be enchanted from a hide (unless its in a shop or on the ground) 18:05:09 4 shaem 18:05:15 Bloax: the rename was vetoed 18:05:19 well 4 assuming 18:05:21 around 20 armour 18:05:40 yeah I'd be fine pushing it down to 23 evp 18:05:51 rip the +9 gda of miracles :( 18:05:53 i was thinking 23 or give 11 AC and 21-22 er 18:06:25 -!- titanjones has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:41 is it gda time for my high elves? 18:06:46 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:57 "no" 18:06:57 perhaps not 18:07:00 ic 18:07:03 high elf with 20s str? good luck 18:07:05 take jiyva 18:07:09 farewell int 18:07:11 hahaha, 20 tr 18:07:14 *str 18:07:22 !lg . HESu max=str x=str 18:07:23 708. [str=14] gammafunk the Convoker (L13 HESu of Sif Muna), hit from afar by a stone giant (large rock) on Vaults:3 on 2014-07-14 11:29:18, with 45305 points after 12260 turns and 2:11:52. 18:07:23 go full tabstorm, who needs int 18:07:27 or spells 18:07:35 luxurious 14 18:07:40 14! 18:07:43 strong 18:07:48 someday I'm gonna add a bunch more dragons and dragon armours and shit. it will be shameless 18:07:53 hmm 18:07:58 !lg . (( HESu || HEIE )) max=str x=str 18:07:59 1572. [str=17] gammafunk the Summoner (L10 HEIE of Sif Muna), slain by a centaur (a +0,+0 trident) (led by a centaur warrior) on D:14 on 2014-02-08 16:54:07, with 7351 points after 6674 turns and 0:56:41. 18:08:00 i wish fda/ida gave just 1 rank of + 18:08:07 but theyd be overpowered maybe? 18:08:07 17, ridic 18:08:09 you can always just go chei :^) 18:08:09 that's lame tho 18:08:15 well 18:08:17 more dragons? 18:08:18 ida is more troublesome 18:08:19 surely not! 18:08:29 we got tons of em! 18:08:30 because rf- is v. troublesome 18:08:39 imo spawn more pearl dragons 18:08:40 as enemies 18:08:41 ya obv there's already some room 18:08:43 in vaults 18:08:48 pearl dragon (08D) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 96-138 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3508(holy), 2008(holy) | 08holy, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 3724 | Sp: holy breath (3d36) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 18:08:48 %??pearl dragon 18:08:56 but tabstorm pda luck already exists 18:08:57 for more dragon armours 18:09:01 not lately bruh 18:09:05 and also you can add things like faerie dragon armour 18:09:11 <3 18:09:17 PleasingFungus: faerie dragon unique imo 18:09:23 that would ruin the joke!!!! 18:09:24 or dragon uniques, those would be aight 18:09:26 such as it is 18:09:30 !send gammafunk xtahua 18:09:30 Sending xtahua to gammafunk. 18:09:34 storm dragon (12D) | Spd: 12 | HD: 14 | HP: 87-122 | AC/EV: 13/10 | Dam: 25, 15, 1507(trample) | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 11elec+++, 12drown | XP: 2315 | Sp: b.lightning (3d19) | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 18:09:34 %??storm dragon 18:09:39 there are only two! 18:09:41 !send gammafunk the Serpent of Hell 18:09:41 Sending the Serpent of Hell to gammafunk. 18:09:50 tiamat doesn't count 18:09:54 an early-game dragon whelp unique could be cool 18:09:55 wow 3d36 18:10:01 unique drake maybe 18:10:02 thats a good vaults enemy imo 18:10:05 ya 18:10:05 Drake the drake 18:10:08 ! 18:10:21 surprised we never had ice drakes 18:10:33 oh, some canadian had an idea for an earlier game "orange" or immature drac unique 18:10:52 which is pretty cute as well 18:11:09 ya. lots of room for more uniques thematically 18:11:10 also Ds unique of some kind would be neat 18:11:19 I still need to make nabob 18:11:27 only mutation at all: spines 18:11:32 whats nabob? 18:11:33 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:11:39 naga bob? 18:11:55 hobgoblin unique 18:12:07 spawns with a mob of goblins and chucks them at you 18:12:27 fr ogres lifting 18:12:29 also I think I had some vague idea of giving him the battle cry mini-might thing 18:12:33 I forget 18:13:20 a bit weird since you could just give him projectiles/launchers, but it's cute 18:13:23 kitka (L26 CeHu) ASSERT(you.see_cell(target())) in 'directn.cc' at line 1236 failed. (Zot:4) 18:13:42 man projectiles wouldn't be the same at all!!! 18:14:15 because you'd have those fearsome goblins to contend with? 18:14:20 ya 18:14:21 after they picked themselves up 18:14:52 I seem to recall thinking of doing with with op crushers but 18:14:53 beware the goblin cost...! 18:14:56 probably common sense prevailed 18:15:07 ....but then I went to "water harpoon" so common sense didn't prevail 18:15:13 haha 18:15:16 luckily, I have rCommonSense 18:15:18 it's a mut 18:15:26 level 3 rCommonSense 18:15:50 did someone call my name 18:16:22 the ORB is in this channel, and it has given badmuts to us all 18:16:30 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:43 ontoclasm confirmed the orb of zot 18:16:52 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:01 I knew it all along 18:17:23 ontoclasm: op don't meld rings, op form tiles for ice form and dragon form and....?! 18:17:35 ontoclasm: don't listen to him!!! 18:19:01 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:19:29 more like kraken form imo 18:23:34 -!- Amnekian has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:15 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:25:52 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:19 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:40:11 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:42 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:43:12 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:22 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:29 -!- potatolizard has joined ##crawl-dev 18:55:53 -!- potatolizard is now known as Guest99359 18:57:55 -!- blt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:59:47 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:01:11 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:02:00 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 19:03:16 * Grunt successfully locates his old salamander patches. 19:03:20 :) 19:03:25 unique idea: plutonian dwarf unique 19:03:28 tabstorm: salamanders got tough skin 2 but no naga scale bonuses if you are wondering 19:03:43 (re the former: salamander hide armour) 19:03:45 deformed body? 19:03:48 yes 19:03:51 aight 19:03:55 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20141009030201]] 19:04:06 oh 19:04:12 I thought itd be no deformed body 19:04:17 and no bonus AC 19:04:22 and no large 19:04:39 Well, let me finish making the promised patch assembly and then you can see what it is like. 19:04:44 alrighty 19:05:01 i figure that just not having deformed body makes up for the Ac diff from nagas 19:05:05 sort of 19:05:54 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:16 No shops on Orc 4 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9035 by zuurr 19:06:20 This probably could do without deformed body, actually; it's more of an artefact of an earlier design. 19:06:31 also wow a lot of these patch notes read kind of silly 19:07:27 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:04 actually I'm kind of surprised rebasing this was mostly clean 19:08:06 anyway 19:08:09 http://sprunge.us/UdSN 19:09:33 actually perhaps I will edit deformed body out <_< 19:09:36 -!- Samadhi_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:10:45 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:47 http://sprunge.us/DIOe 19:10:49 one line change 19:10:49 <3 19:11:23 :O 19:11:32 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:11:42 !send read salamanders 19:11:43 Sending salamanders to read. 19:12:13 powerful inner flame bow combos.... 19:12:13 !tell PleasingFungus http://sprunge.us/DIOe (no deformed body in that version but it can be added back in if they turn out to be Quite Powerful) 19:12:13 Grunt: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 19:12:24 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:14:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:14:59 7,8,9 + human sid 19:15:02 i love low stats 19:15:14 * gammafunk zaps a wand. Grunt's body is deformed! 19:15:40 -!- fridurmus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:32 * Grunt 's shape seems more normal. 19:16:37 !send gammafunk unspeakable horrors 19:16:37 Sending unspeakable horrors to gammafunk. 19:16:47 ...wow I have a lot of idea on the go at the moment, don't I. 19:17:24 !send Grunt Tornado Axe wielding Salamanders 19:17:24 Sending Tornado Axe wielding Salamanders to Grunt. 19:17:37 !send read the +5 whirlwind axe {elec RMsl} 19:17:37 Sending the +5 whirlwind axe {elec RMsl} to read. 19:18:12 they're like mf only not really at all. 19:18:26 they're basically naga fire Mf 19:18:55 probably weaker too 19:19:05 1learn add 19:19:23 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:31 whirlwind axe sounds like a speed+elec exec axe 19:19:59 the only problem is that you get really dizzy when you swing it 19:20:15 so escape is kinda hard unless you pop a curing 19:20:17 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:19 you obviously missed my patch from the other day 19:20:20 !tell PleasingFungus player.cc:4697:98: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions [-Wsign-compare] ASSERT_RANGE(cont, 0, ARRAYSZ(contam_descriptions)); 19:20:20 gammafunk: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 19:20:21 PleasingFungus: !!! 19:20:44 Confuse */+ 19:20:50 !tell gammafunk oh no!!! 19:20:50 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 19:20:50 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 19:21:31 -!- TendaAway is now known as FatShack 19:22:26 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:22:37 Grunt: I'd kiiinda be tempted to move lavaswimming to a starting ability; it feels wrong to be a salamander and not be able to lava. of course, tengu and gargoyles can't fly initially... but mer can always swim, and that's a much stronger ability than lavaswimming. 19:22:58 PleasingFungus: the reason you can't do that right away as written is because you don't have rF at the start <_< 19:23:04 ha 19:23:25 so basically you can't exploit a 1-2 entry vaults right off the bat 19:23:26 oh no 19:24:22 well I mean yes of course it's not a big deal either way 19:24:38 or ever at all, really (this was my conclusion when making my boots of the lavawalker, too) 19:26:36 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:26:39 -!- FatShack is now known as TendaAway 19:27:24 did someone nerf Zin recite? It seems pretty harmless as 22 invo 19:29:27 no intentional nerfs, no 19:29:41 what are you using it on? 19:29:44 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 19:30:10 hi, i'm wondering if anyone in here has set up dgamelaunch with dcss and has some time to talk about it. I'm lookint into the possibility of setting up a public server in AU 19:30:35 cool, |amethyst is the person to ask 19:30:36 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:30:46 he has a guide and everything 19:30:57 thanks 19:30:57 oh, lots of people always asking for an AU server 19:31:02 finally, dcss returns to its australian roots... 19:31:03 by which I mean I remember more than one 19:31:12 ha, yes. messed up as heck we don't already have one, really! 19:31:15 well, make that two :D 19:31:16 What book(s) is Hydra Form in? 19:31:23 PleasingFungus: the assembled masses of Depths. Ugly things, giants, frederick, boris, deep trolls 19:31:23 ??hydra_form 19:31:24 hydra form[1/3]: Strongly spellpower-dependent level 6 form that gives a powerful cleaving attack (when heads >= 2). Your heads can be chopped off, grown, and cauterized just like the monster! Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. Beware the AC cost... 19:31:26 ??hydra_form[2 19:31:27 hydra form[2/3]: Unlike with monsters, if you lose your last head, the form simply ends; you don't (necessarily) die. (Also unlike monster hydras, you don't heal when heads are chopped off.) 19:31:29 ??hydra_form[3 19:31:30 hydra form[3/3]: DEVOUR THY FOES 19:31:31 fen folio and book of transmutations, iirc 19:31:41 someone should probably update book loadouts 19:31:47 Lasty: it's gonna be bad against most of those 19:31:47 ??book of transmutations 19:31:48 I don't have a page labeled book_of_transmutations in my learndb. 19:31:48 ??fen_folio 19:31:48 fen folio[1/1]: Corpse Rot, Leda's Liquefaction, Summon Forest, Hydra Form, Summon Hydra 19:31:54 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:55 ??book of changes 19:31:55 book of changes[1/1]: Beastly Appendage, Sticks to Snakes, Spider Form, Ice Form, Blade Hands 19:31:59 since they're high hd and/or not especially vulnerable (deep trolls) 19:32:11 ugly things should be reasonably vulnerable 19:32:19 ??book of transformations 19:32:19 I don't have a page labeled book_of_transformations in my learndb. 19:32:21 hm 19:32:24 PleasingFungus: In the past I would get confuse against some giants/trolls 19:32:32 ??book of transfigurations 19:32:32 book of transfigurations[1/1]: Stoneskin, Ice Form, Statue Form, Dragon Form 19:32:34 this one 19:32:36 Book of Transfigurations 19:32:38 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 19:32:38 o 19:32:40 read: o/ 19:32:40 ya 19:33:06 You finish putting on your +1 naga barding of cold resistance. 19:33:07 ??book_of_transylvanians 19:33:08 I don't have a page labeled book_of_transylvanians in my learndb. 19:33:09 this is going well 19:33:15 !learn edit book_of_transfigurations s/$/, Hydra Form 19:33:15 book of transfigurations[1/1]: Stoneskin, Ice Form, Statue Form, Dragon Form, Hydra Form 19:33:21 Grunt: synergy...! 19:33:36 !learn edit book_of_transfigurations s/Dragon Form, Hydra Form/Hydra Form, Dragon Form/ 19:33:36 book of transfigurations[1/1]: Stoneskin, Ice Form, Statue Form, Hydra Form, Dragon Form 19:33:40 F - a book of Flames 19:33:41 mmmmmmm 19:33:50 read: that's not correct for stable...... 19:33:51 clearly this guy will turn into a ~*~*~caster~*~*~ 19:33:57 Oh right. :V 19:34:10 k i'll fix it 19:34:19 when do they become not slow again? 19:35:21 gammafunk: they slow down over time now 19:35:33 -!- Pluie|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35:36 you....you! 19:35:43 8) 19:35:49 -!- jefkin has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:36:17 !blame dck 19:36:17 I pronounce dck... Guilty! 19:36:22 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:33 !tell dck I'm blaming you for salamanders!!! 19:36:34 gammafunk: OK, I'll let dck know. 19:36:46 :| 19:36:51 The slowdown was not dck's idea!!! 19:37:14 Let Zot sort them out 19:38:42 Lasty: you use the word jump and leap kind of alternately for power leap, might want to always refer to it as one or the other? (you can use jump after jump attack is gone) 19:39:06 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:39:18 well one of these only occurs during HUP but 19:39:30 -!- TendaAway is now known as FatShack 19:39:30 But there's also You can only jump to visible locations 19:39:52 The yak gores you. You die... 19:39:53 rip 19:40:11 fr: fire yaks 19:40:13 gammafunk: ah, I didn't notice. 19:40:25 Lasty: really minor thing, obviously 19:40:28 yeah, should fix tho 19:40:40 fire yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 26-52 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 205 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 19:40:40 %??yak name:fire n_adj perm_ench:inner_flame 19:40:43 I'm grepping for jump and......removing things 19:40:47 gammafunk: hm it would work better with sheep 19:40:53 fire sheep (15Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 2/7 | Dam: 13 | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 28 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 19:40:53 %??sheep name:fire n_adj perm_ench:inner_flame 19:41:04 Grunt: was that xom vault yours? 19:41:11 !vault xom_exploding_sheep 19:41:11 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/xom_sheep.des;hb=HEAD#l48 19:41:18 (I made it work but it was not originally my idea) 19:41:39 heh, I see 19:42:10 %git 5dfa5d83 19:42:10 07elliptic02 * 0.14-a0-2659-g5dfa5d8: Decrease encumbrance of the heaviest armours slightly. 10(8 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5dfa5d83bcf9 19:42:24 huh, gda has already dropped some 19:43:20 !lg . won 1 19:43:20 1/17. gammafunk the Farming Conqueror (L27 HEFi of The Shining One), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-11-13 09:00:56, with 6540706 points after 286452 turns and 1d+7:33:39. 19:43:23 !lg . won 1 -log 19:43:24 1/17. gammafunk, XL27 HEFi, T:286452: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/gammafunk/morgue-gammafunk-20121113-090056.txt 19:43:40 and the 27 dates back to the new evp formula, presumably chosen because, you know, 27 19:43:42 ok. 19:43:54 haste 2% in gda, mmmmm 19:44:01 so salamanders right now are basically some zany fire-merfolk-naga hybrid 19:44:01 huh 19:44:09 Grunt: ship it 19:44:13 PleasingFungus: yup!!!! 19:44:15 gammafunk: nice foul odors 19:44:17 and 19:44:18 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:18 in the game!!! 19:44:19 Grunt: more hyphens please 19:44:30 !send gammafunk excessive-hyphenation 19:44:30 Sending excessive-hyphenation to gammafunk. 19:44:38 gammafunk: do you have opinions re shifting gda down to cpa encumbrance (25 -> 23) 19:44:49 well I'm no melee nut but 19:44:55 gda is still regarded as bad? 19:44:58 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:44:59 ya 19:45:01 it's basically useless 19:45:04 no 19:45:07 what's the next closest encumb at? 19:45:10 but it's very limited 19:45:11 gammafunk: cpa 19:45:14 oh do you mean below that? 19:45:16 er, below 19:45:17 yeah 19:45:22 plate is 18 19:45:27 I see 19:45:30 yeah I mean, seems reasonable 19:45:59 well you're right in that chei characters that take a lot of str can find it a very good armor 19:46:40 but even then it only ever comes into play incredibly late 19:46:54 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1185-g3273a42: Unify short & long contam descriptions 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 29+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3273a42f0ebe 19:47:19 gammafunk: imo recompile and tell me if there are new sign errors 19:47:25 I'm having trouble reproducing them locally 19:47:31 gonna git stash 19:47:46 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:46 ty 19:47:49 yw 19:48:06 np 19:49:12 I love the four-line-long justification for giving clawed species a generic UC to-hit bonus 19:49:16 attack.cc:200 19:49:17 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: bye!] 19:49:50 !source attack.cc:200 19:49:51 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l200 19:50:36 imo :207-208 is better 19:50:40 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:07 all these random line splits 19:51:16 they're to make it fit in 80 characters 19:51:21 which is crawl house style 19:51:32 well on line 182 you witness it combined into mhit += maybe_random_div(you.skill(wpn_skill, 100), 100, random); 19:51:32 fr: the Crawl house 19:51:38 except with SK_FIGHTING 19:51:43 The House of Crawl 19:51:53 nicolae-: get to work imo! :) 19:52:00 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1186-gde3b75f: GDA EVP 25 -> 23 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=de3b75fcaa64 19:52:26 Bloax: probably a lower indentation level. duplication sounds bad, tho 19:52:55 !source player-act.cc:302 19:52:55 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player-act.cc;hb=HEAD#l302 19:53:09 i have a job now, grunt, i can't be making vaults all day long like i used to... 19:53:10 I found where uc gets a randomized delay based on armour 19:53:18 rip 19:53:18 but I'm having some trouble reading it 19:53:19 :( 19:53:54 if it makes you feel better i have two ru overflows done and i doodle a lot of ideas at work 19:54:03 heh 19:54:23 random_var rv::roll_dice(int d, int n) 19:54:37 ofc no comments 19:54:53 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:56:07 looks like it's... probably 2d(evp)? 19:56:07 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:09 what kind of system is still restricted to 80 characters in terms of width in 1990+24 19:56:50 i think it's more for convenience and consistency of formatting rather than somebody with a tiny terminal 19:57:58 lil bit of both 19:59:38 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/formatting.gif 20:00:04 there are probably still people who run on a non-fb text console 20:03:04 80 chars is good, because you like to look at things side-by-side 20:03:17 it's also about what you need with sane levels of indent 20:03:25 and if you don't have sane levels of indent, you messed up 20:03:53 do you have like a 1024x768 monitor 20:04:28 what does that even mean, I just said side-by-side 20:04:38 I have a high resolution on a widescreen laptop 20:04:54 I've usually got irc in one window and crawl in another... 20:05:06 well i do have a split view on this text editor 20:05:11 and there's plenty of horizontal space 20:05:27 I generally have about half a dozen files open at once 20:05:30 plus or minus 20:05:44 I can fit about four side-by-side 20:05:56 as fr editing, yes, side by side 20:06:19 only get 2 on here, 3 on my desktop 20:06:32 well I mean 2 80-char-wise side-by-side 20:06:44 I can fit lots of files if don't care how wide the panes are 20:08:51 not sure what the concept I want to invoke is called... semantic chunking? basically it's easier to "digest" a chunk that's 80x4 than one that's 320x1 even if you can fit the latter on the screen 20:09:11 yeah, 80 chars is nice for digestability as well 20:09:24 to test this, try reading one of those really old webpages that's just a bunch of text dumped between tags and is as wide as your window 20:09:39 and some not so old ones... 20:09:45 see for instance how we put if conditions chained by boolean operators on separate lines 20:09:46 old-style :) 20:10:35 ??aevp 20:10:35 aevp[1/1]: Adjusted body armour evasion penalty. Affects spell success, melee accuracy. Its value is [(2/5) * er^2 / (str+3)] * [45 - armour_skill]/45. 20:10:39 mm 20:10:43 well there's this thing called being reasonable and then there's just orthodoxally following arbitrary limits 20:10:56 orthodoxially? really? 20:11:05 yeah and then there's just being irrational and ignoring sound arguments 20:11:24 I admit that in my own programming I tend to use 96 instead of 80 these days... but more than 96 and it gets harder to read 20:11:26 it goes up to 82 columns if you remove the huge break 20:11:41 and looks much cleaner that way 20:11:46 In personal projects, I don't follow the 80 character rule, but in a project like crawl, it makes sense to have standards and roughly follow them - just for the sake of sanity. 20:11:58 i think we should have an irrational limit for line lengths 20:12:05 sqrt(6500) 20:12:07 since all too often I'm the one who has to come back in 6 months and understand what it's doing, I prefer to be able to read it easily 20:12:23 I even use 80 for R and python code these days, because I'm tired of reading long, ragged lines 20:12:23 so yeah, uc attack_delay is max(10, 1d10 + 2d(aevp)) 20:12:30 which I think is in sequell somewhere 20:12:42 er, that minus skill 20:12:56 i'm not saying ANARCHY IN THE CODEBASE but why break lines if it's just 1-7 columns over 80 20:12:58 ...and then batform attacks at 60% delay 20:12:58 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:13:46 (all these mechanics for batform attacking...) 20:14:03 because it's suppose to be 80 char not 80 char + random2(7); you do break it if there's just something like a macro or text block, but 98% of time it's easy to break the line 20:14:38 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:15:06 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:18:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 20:18:44 because if I open an editor in a normal terminal window I get a couple of lines that wrap in the worst possible way (the very tip is on the opposite side of the window) 20:19:41 for a quick look I'm going to run vim or emacs in a terminal, not fire up eclipse or whatever :p 20:21:06 * Grunt gestures. gammafunk shatters! 20:21:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:23:21 !dragonscall grunt 20:23:21 gammafunk calls out to the draconic realm, and the dragon horde roars back! The golden dragon tramples grunt!!! x3 20:25:45 Hm. Looking at derandomizing AEVP UC delay. This will make it much easier to completely eliminate speed penalties to UC combat; before, if you had, say, 5 AEVP, you would have ended up with (small) delay penalties to attack speed a little less than half the time. Now, you'll have none at all. 20:26:22 &rc araganzar 20:26:24 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/araganzar.rc 20:26:52 !firestorm gammafunk 20:26:53 Grunt points at gammafunk and mumbles some strange words. A raging storm of fire appears! The great blast of fire engulfs gammafunk! 20:26:57 -!- ChrisOelmueller has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:05 In general, attack speed penalties will be decreased. Hrm. 20:27:09 I wonder if I can compensate for this. 20:27:15 !send PleasingFungus compensation 20:27:15 Sending compensation to PleasingFungus. 20:27:22 aw, you're just compensating for something 20:27:29 gammafunk: did you ever recompile? 20:27:38 !tornado PleasingFungus 20:27:38 oh 20:27:38 Grunt mumbles some strange words. A huge vortex of air appears and lifts Grunt up! PleasingFungus is engulfed in raging winds. 20:27:43 PleasingFungus: yeah, no warning :) 20:27:46 :) 20:27:50 code is a little silly but morally sound 20:28:28 Crawl code - where morality is of the utmost importance. 20:28:56 funny, I was thinking "alittle silly but morally sound" made it far better than most of the code... 20:30:24 augh, it's a lopsided function. 20:30:37 I wonder if I can talk anydice into sorting this out. 20:31:13 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:14 !seen PleasingFungus 20:31:14 dpeg: You have 4 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:31:14 I last saw PleasingFungus at Fri Oct 10 01:30:37 2014 UTC (37s ago) saying 'I wonder if I can talk anydice into sorting this out.' on ##crawl-dev. 20:31:18 !messages 20:31:18 (1/4) wheals said (1w 4d 7h 39m 54s ago): how did 4.1 labs fit in? 20:31:36 !tell wheals I've never seen a 4.1 labyrinth, sorry. 20:31:36 dpeg: OK, I'll let wheals know. 20:31:38 !messages 20:31:38 (1/3) bhaak said (2d 17h 47m 36s ago): mini-mini-update: Mike Stephenson, d.h. der, der vor fast 30 jahren dafuer verantwortlich war, dass es einen fork von hack gab, der zu nethack wurde, hat explizit unseren input angefragt: "What would all of you like to see happen, both short and long term for the game?". 20:31:46 !seen dpeg 20:31:46 I last saw dpeg at Fri Oct 10 01:31:38 2014 UTC (8s ago) saying '!messages' on ##crawl-dev. 20:31:54 Here I am, Grunt, right here! 20:31:56 !messages 20:31:56 (1/2) bhaak said (2d 17h 36m 9s ago): Es scheint so, als wuerden die fossilien etwas weicher und beweglicher werden und evt. ist er williger als andere, Aenderungen am Projektmanagement vorzunehmen. 20:32:10 hi dpeg 20:32:11 what bhaak writes there in German is revolutionary 20:32:15 is it 20:32:36 do you know who Mike Stephenson is? Hint: he is not the creator of the steam engine :) 20:32:59 who is he 20:33:01 Hint: he has something to do with some other roguelike 20:33:18 nicolae-: Nethack : Mike = Crawl : Linley 20:33:28 ...aw, dpeg is no fun!!!! 20:33:54 oh, sorry Grunt 20:34:07 PleasingFungus: Hi, came for you... saw the no-backtracking god wiki page. Couldn't resist and added some comments. You have detailed ideas there, that made me wonder: how fixed is this god already? 20:34:35 not very. I think I'm zooming in on a workable conduct but the abilities are still pretty up in the air 20:34:49 PleasingFungus: as you can see, I have no shortage of strange ideas (and I think it's good to get them out: we should never limit our fantasy at the start) but perhaps it's not warranted anymore 20:34:51 time stop is good, arena might be good if it's workable, isntatele might be good 20:35:07 I'll take a look at what you added 20:35:17 i'll have a look, i have a lot of god ideas 20:35:18 PleasingFungus: because of this, I added my stuff in one contiguous box 20:35:21 dpeg: I was tinkering with playable salamanders again a bit earlier and have a version where they slow down with XL, which I think was partly your suggestion. :) 20:35:22 might as well put 'em somewhere 20:35:27 nicolae-: please do! 20:35:42 i keep meaning to post my thief god to the tavern but never get around to it 20:35:43 Grunt: cannot have enough slow species (I am serious). 20:36:04 slow species are fun and all until they are actually pretty weak 20:36:13 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:36:21 nicolae-: I am convinced by now that my Thief god concept is dead in the water. I cannot get "xp for spotting monsters" to work piety *and* with painless travel. Pity that. 20:36:24 nicolae-: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:god:propose:no_backtracking_god is the link, though it's a bit of a mess 20:36:44 I need to reorganize, probably 20:36:54 in the spirit of thief god i will make sure to pillage all the ideas that fit with mine 20:36:56 and tidy away the older/less viable stuff somewhere away from the 'current status' stuff 20:36:58 haha 20:36:59 godspeed 20:37:12 nicolae-: sure, ideas are free (take what you want!) 20:37:21 nicolae-: s/pillage/steal/ 20:37:25 haha, suckers *nicolae walks out with a giant handful of ideas* 20:37:31 * gammafunk mumbles darkly about removing things... 20:37:34 * PleasingFungus cackles and vanishes! 20:37:40 !remove gammafunk 20:37:40 (but not actually) 20:37:50 dpeg: I think some of these ideas we talked about before; some we haven't 20:37:59 I think the 'bizarre idea' might be too bizarre 20:38:13 might be a fun 7drl but I don't think it's crawl 20:38:14 gammafunk: the plan should be the other way around: add good stuff until the topic of removal lands on the table all on its own... 20:38:30 giving a way to deal with bad luck is reasonable, yeah 20:38:34 PleasingFungus: the ones I just wrote? Don't think so, but my memory is shady... I talk so much :) 20:38:36 gammafunk: well, if it helps, i don't really know if i could actually implement my god ideas myself 20:38:37 dpeg: but removers never win! we lost the fight with nem! 20:38:53 gammafunk: no, this is my point! 20:39:15 someone talked about invoking stairs before 20:39:16 nothing won, nothing lost 20:39:17 I think 20:39:28 PleasingFungus: hey, collecting staircases must be cool! 20:39:30 I say so!! 20:39:34 ya that's amazing 20:39:42 I don't know if it'll work as a mechanic but I love the idea 20:39:47 also 20:39:50 it would be another implemented badidea 20:39:57 which is a good metric imo 20:40:28 i think staircases might have come up in doorgod 20:40:41 which is another idea i really like even though i can't think of a good actual implementation 20:40:51 !send Dooroklohe nicolae- 20:40:51 Sending nicolae- to Dooroklohe. 20:40:55 btw, I learned this from Erik (he was talking about designing monsters, but it's all the same): Japanese games (he tells me) are much, much wilder than what we have. We should let our ideas roam free, very free :) (He gave me plenty examples of Mystery Dungeon monsters.) 20:41:24 I miss shiren 20:41:32 haven't played the other mystery dungeons, tho 20:41:34 for my thiefgod i was thinking about a power that lets you apport staircases and hatches but that doesn't quite fit the theme since nobody really owns the stairs 20:42:12 nicolae-: do you think "getting xp/2 for spotting monsters" can be made to work in any way? 20:42:22 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:40 !xxx grunt 20:42:41 gammafunk gestures. 8 tentacled monstrosities appear! The tentacled monstrosity tentacle-slaps {grunt}! x8 20:42:47 oh, oops 20:42:54 hmmm 20:42:54 !shatter gammafunk 20:42:54 Grunt gestures wildly while chanting. The dungeon rumbles around Grunt! gammafunk shudders from the earth-shattering force. 20:43:07 do you ever worry we might have too many of these 20:43:15 is this some kind of Sequell arms' race between the two of you? 20:43:15 ....no 20:43:15 !firestorm PleasingFungus 20:43:16 nicolae-: the wizard of zot does! 20:43:16 Grunt points at PleasingFungus and mumbles some strange words. A raging storm of fire appears! The great blast of fire engulfs PleasingFungus! 20:43:23 !singularity grunt 20:43:23 PleasingFungus mumbles some strange words. The singularity violently warps grunt! 20:43:25 dpeg: it's hardly limited to the two of us :) 20:43:28 !glaciate PleasingFungus 20:43:29 Grunt gestures. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs PleasingFungus! 20:43:35 !banish Grunt 20:43:35 PleasingFungus casts a spell. Grunt is devoured by a tear in reality! 20:43:37 maybe if there was a thing where it didn't count if there was glass in the way, phrasing it like "confronting" or "making oneself vulnerable to monsters" 20:43:38 If the @ is doing it, it must be ok 20:43:45 you guys are supposed to add cool features and nerf players into oblivion!!! 20:43:50 !nerf dpeg 20:43:51 * Sequell nerfs dpeg!!! 20:43:55 !nerf crawl 20:43:56 * Sequell nerfs crawl!!! 20:43:56 I'm uh...removing bad features 20:43:59 does that count 20:44:05 bad features like player feedback? 20:44:06 gammafunk: counts 1/2 :) 20:44:12 \o/ 20:44:17 nicolae-: he's writing a 'remove jump attack' patch 20:44:20 nicolae-: sure, can discount glass 20:44:27 I still think it's cool on felids (not so much on boots) 20:44:37 also cool on Ru 20:44:43 well, he's not removing ru's. 20:44:50 ru's works differently anyway. 20:44:53 yes 20:45:00 (those two things are related, ofc) 20:45:57 btw, I have several 0.14 debts.... would now be a decent time to suggest discussing minmay's unique xp concept on c-r-d? 20:46:06 oh, what was it? 20:46:32 well, I guess you could also post it, yeah 20:46:50 rebalance unique xp to better encourage killing them 20:46:55 instead of running away from the 20:46:57 gammafunk: an old tavern thread, where some players (like duvessa & crate, I feel these two are the same actually) came up with a list of under-xp'd uniques, and actually a long list of proposed changes 20:46:57 m 20:47:01 with grinder being something of a model, I think 20:47:03 yes 20:47:10 oh, I don't remember the list 20:47:12 oh ok thought it was some kind of system 20:47:17 The Crate System 20:47:18 although I would like to add that improved loot also helps 20:47:19 but yeah unique reform sounds good 20:47:22 what's crawl's start-to-crate? 20:47:22 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47:23 ok, will do 20:47:31 sure; see crazy yiuf 20:47:40 PleasingFungus: zero if you are crate 20:47:41 <_< 20:47:43 hey if we only implemented crate/duvessa ideas, crawl would be pretty good 20:47:47 >_> 20:47:50 PleasingFungus: the SaGl I was playing with earlier got Yiuf's staff <3 20:48:01 SaCK 20:48:10 For example, I am always let down if Gastronok has a plain hat. The thing should be runed -- even if only +1, it'll make me much more itchy to go for the kill (especially on Tr, Oc etc.) 20:48:20 hrm, word combos from Sa 20:48:22 hm. sadk? no. 20:48:22 s/Oc/Op/ 20:48:30 SaFE 20:48:37 so messed up that we have vs instead of vi 20:48:39 (SaFE is recommended even <3) 20:48:44 gammafunk: are you sure? It'd be a pretty aneurexic Crawl, I tell you. 20:48:47 gammafunk: SaNe 20:48:59 SaAM 20:49:01 dpeg: only minmay/crate ideas, but not all of their ideas, perhaps? 20:49:02 is funny 20:49:08 idk. is joke in any case 20:49:08 dpeg: I like to joke that if some people get their way Crawl 0.27 will be one room with the Orb and an Orb Guardian. 20:49:10 SaWn 20:49:24 Grunt: tactical battle to the death! 20:49:25 gammafunk: idgi 20:49:26 I like a lot of minmay/crate ideas but they would like crawl to be much smaller/brutal than I would 20:49:43 I like a lot of minmay/crate ideas but they would like crawl to be much smaller/brutal than I would 20:50:05 well it's a conjugated verb 20:50:21 rchandra: Yes. There is no question that they have good ideas and a good understanding of how Crawl works. (And minmay's posts are less obnoxious than what I recall)... but I believe they always think of the power user, and never of the new player. 20:50:57 baptism by fire 20:51:02 !send Basil FIRE 20:51:03 Sending FIRE to Basil. 20:51:15 anyway, https://bpaste.net/show/fb0dda906f37 20:51:19 I think they want the game to adhere to rules of coherency and sanity etc, but yeah crawl is a big old playground of weird stuff and that's just how it is 20:51:26 any opposition to a push? 20:51:28 hm. while i'm here, i might as well run my idea past some people with ideas. my idea for thiefgod was based around a central passive power where if you walk past an unaware/helpless enemy, you steal something from them, which gains you piety and at higher piety levels you can go from "stealing their inventory" to, say, "stealing magic" or whatever 20:51:50 someone on SA said that "Crawl is a minimalist game with a strong maximlist tendency" (or similarly)... I think that sums it up very well, and the maximalism is part of the appeal. 20:52:04 heh, not a bad quote 20:52:18 Basil: looks good to me 20:52:19 Basil: it's radical and will change dcss forever. Do it, god help us all 20:52:34 gammafunk: Heitsinn_Grasida?? 20:52:55 Basil: no! you fool!!!! 20:53:02 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1187-g1a6eb9e: Mostly de-randomize evp UC delay 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a6eb9e56ed3 20:53:05 also what they said 20:53:10 nicolae-: I don't think that actual stealing really works in Crawl: you want monsters dead -- especially since you can stab so well. 20:53:25 !tell tabstorm hi.... 20:53:25 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let tabstorm know. 20:53:40 Grunt: still up for helping me !irradiate? 20:53:41 dpeg: how about a pickpocketing mechanic 20:53:42 PleasingFungus: wrong speedrunner 20:53:49 Bloax: no, he's the one who reminded me about it 20:53:53 !irradiate PleasingFungus 20:53:58 nicolae-: in other words, when players sneakily croach upon monsters, it will be very hard to provide something that can compete with a solid stab. 20:54:02 * PleasingFungus sizzells! 20:54:13 I remain the only person who wants nethack-style nymphs in crawl 20:54:27 person 20:54:28 !banish gammafunk 20:54:28 Grunt casts a spell. gammafunk is devoured by a tear in reality! 20:54:30 maybe as an april 1st thing 20:54:31 what 20:54:31 tabstorm: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:54:35 !messages 20:54:35 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (1m 10s ago): hi.... 20:54:37 gammafunk: this conflicts with your otherwise healthy desire for a clean, tidy Crawl :) 20:54:37 hi 20:54:47 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a6eb9e56ed3 hi 20:54:49 tabstorm: uc^ 20:54:59 !messages 20:55:00 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (21h 36m ago): ChrisO popped into crawl-dev earlier today, as "eoc" - it'd probably be best to ban that nick as well 20:55:01 Basil: quite and teach PleasingFungus how to play Gh 20:55:03 oh 20:55:04 cool 20:55:08 !gamesby PleasingFungus Gh-- 20:55:08 PleasingFungus (Gh--) has played 30 games, between 2014-01-18 16:46:45 and 2014-10-09 18:21:49, won 0, high score 457194, total score 720853, total turns 201624, play-time/day 0:03:33, total time 15:41:25. 20:55:15 PleasingFungus: good gh buff 20:55:16 *quiet 20:55:21 !gamesby Bloax --Mo 20:55:22 Bloax (--Mo) has played 230 games, between 2012-05-28 08:04:20 and 2014-08-14 01:27:29, won 4 (1.7%), high score 20502640, total score 72605425, total turns 1286084, play-time/day 0:11:45, total time 6d+14:32:04. 20:55:23 !gamesby Bloax --Tm 20:55:23 Bloax (--Tm) has played 350 games, between 2012-07-08 07:40:38 and 2014-10-05 23:02:16, won 3 (0.9%), high score 15538687, total score 28204001, total turns 1337185, play-time/day 0:10:54, total time 6d+5:01:07. 20:55:37 my complaint here was inspired by gh yes 20:55:39 unarmed so gud 20:55:40 dpeg: that is a tradeoff, yes, it's like a conduct. that is a good point, though. 20:55:58 now just change GDA to 11 AC 21 ER :) 20:56:22 ??cpa 20:56:22 crystal plate armour[1/2]: 14AC, 23ER. 20:56:41 dpeg: I was grumbling about the good old days when new things had to go through the elliptic, MarvinPA, kilobyte, mumra, DracoOmega guantlet 20:56:48 and all you got from Grunt was a newline 20:56:51 20:56:54 ??cpa[2 20:56:54 cpa[2/2]: stands for better than gold dragon armour 20:56:55 you know 20:56:59 gammafunk: some things never change 20:57:03 just like the last time i brought random unarmed delay up 20:57:05 i suppose i could just make the powers work more like apportation but i kind of liked having to get in close... 20:57:26 gammafunk: where am I in that gauntlet??? 20:57:40 dpeg: you're the crazy wizard with lots of ideas 20:57:40 iconoclasm alert!!! 20:57:43 Grunt: so when are you pushing twisteraxe 20:57:45 too gaunt to show up? 20:57:51 Basil: I need tiles first :b 20:57:56 oh right 20:58:04 !seen roctavian 20:58:05 I last saw roctavian at Wed Oct 8 19:35:08 2014 UTC (1d 6h 22m 56s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 20:58:13 !seen ontoclasm 20:58:13 I last saw ontoclasm at Fri Oct 10 00:01:09 2014 UTC (1h 57m 4s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Leaving.'. 20:58:20 Basil: keep in mind this thing of his doesn't explode 20:58:26 twisteraxe? 20:58:31 nicolae-: let me find the link 20:58:33 grunt: for salamanders what do you think of having -1arm/+1 dodge 20:58:34 !tell ontoclasm we need tiles for an exec axe that maxes twisters 20:58:35 Basil: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 20:58:37 instead 20:58:43 !tell ontoclasm STAT 20:58:43 Basil: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 20:58:57 I love that Basil rushes in for the twister axe of ALL THINGS 20:59:05 ah, nuts, that's like one of my randart ideas 20:59:17 gammafunk: helped inspire it 20:59:21 nicolae-: http://sprunge.us/QDfX 20:59:21 that made it in? ouch 20:59:29 I thought it was a joke 20:59:32 ah, I guess that makes sense 20:59:35 -!- aves has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:53 PleasingFungus: lots of jokes in crawl 20:59:54 I guess as a "you'd be insane to use this" weapon, but could anyone actually use it? 20:59:55 Crawl can take the occasional bit of humour now and again!! 21:00:04 impossible 21:00:13 need a form that's immune to tornado or a species 21:00:15 nicolae-: I also started from there, but I think that a direct contact conduct is tough... hence I arrived at the opposite: provide a playing style where you get xp without killing. 21:00:33 gammafunk: bring back Air Walk imo 21:00:36 tornado form 21:00:40 ??air_walk 21:00:40 air walk[1/2]: Air elemental form spell; was L9 Tm/Air, removed long ago. Made you drop your whole inventory. 21:00:44 right 21:00:48 ??wispform 21:00:48 wispform ~ wisp form[1/1]: Form with permaflight, blinkitis, sometimes-confused movement, no spellcasting, no item usage (can use scrolls in 0.15). Also +10 AC, rF++ rC++ rN+ rPois rElec rRot rCorr Cons. 21:00:54 stage 2 of PleasingFungus' formreform 21:00:54 no rW 21:01:09 Grunt: it is much, much easier to remove humour than to add it (this effect is directly proportional to number of developers involved, unfortunately). 21:01:15 insubstantial wisp (15v) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 6-18 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Dam: 1206(blink self) | 11non-living, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 80 | Sp: blink | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 21:01:15 %??insubstantial wisp 21:01:17 I hadn't actually remember that air walk was Tm/ 21:01:25 PleasingFungus: AIR WALK 21:01:30 dpeg: but, triple-swords? 21:01:31 i wonder if a direct conduct idea would work for something not thief-based, so you don't have to decide between pickpocketing and super murder 21:01:32 I had a vague notion that air was associated with charms & earth with tmut 21:01:40 gammafunk: now I just need to make firestarter cast self-centered fire storm 1 in 10 21:01:46 like so many things, this seems to be an artifact of Crawl History 21:01:47 heh 21:01:50 possibly it's still good? 21:01:57 a god of naturalists who wants you to collect a tissue sample of everything. 21:02:05 or 10 in 10 21:02:05 gammafunk: have been hotly contested! As have been curse toes, death cobs etc. 21:02:16 !send dpeg death popcorn 21:02:17 Sending death popcorn to dpeg. 21:02:23 nicolae-: yes, would certainly be easier to design. 21:02:25 I'd love to have heard the arguments over death cobs 21:02:35 we had one a while ago! 21:02:38 i'm glad double and triple swords are back solely because their descriptions were the among the most popular item descriptions i've written 21:02:46 oh. I didn't bring back the full descriptions 21:02:57 PleasingFungus: would you, if we ask nicely? :) 21:03:06 PleasingFungus: also when are you buffing fungus form 21:03:09 I didn't really think they were funny 21:03:15 Basil: I did! 21:03:15 *upends the table* *smashes a wall* RARGH 21:03:15 like, yesterday 21:03:20 oh well 21:03:20 ??fungus form 21:03:21 fungus form[1/1]: A bad form. You become a wandering mushroom! Permanent confusing touch, can't move with enemies in LOS, rPois, rN+++. Can't cast spells, eat, drink, wield or evoke wands. 21:03:26 !discord nicolae- 21:03:26 nicolae- flies into a frenzy! 21:03:26 got worse for formics, though 21:03:30 Basil: that's out of date! 21:03:36 %git :/ungus 21:03:36 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1170-gffa9e12: Don't meld octopode rings in most forms 10(24 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ffa9e12ba4ab 21:03:37 they can eat and drink, I think 21:03:46 give it meph 21:03:47 obviously 21:03:48 and now fungus op can wear rings! 21:03:53 it is a badform, basil. 21:03:56 it's not supposed to be good. 21:04:05 fungus + formicid = cordyceps 21:04:26 You sporulate at the balrug! 21:04:31 mm 21:04:33 <3 21:04:44 PleasingFungus: good flavor I think 21:04:56 delicious fungus 21:04:59 did you know they can wear caps? 21:05:09 the dumbest easter egg, it's so great 21:05:10 deathcap 21:05:11 dpeg: what if we combined the ideas. what if you got xp for walking past monsters without killing them, like counting coup. 21:05:33 -!- Taraiph has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:42 <|amethyst> full XP for seeing monsters, XP loss for killing them? 21:05:46 nicolae-: it wouldn't help, unless the monster suddenly disappears! Otherwise it wakes up, follows you and you still have to fight it 21:06:18 well, that's where the rest of the god powers come in, presumably 21:06:42 touch it and then ask god to help you get the hell out of dodge, Somehow 21:06:43 what god are we talking about? 21:06:49 nicolae-: but it'd apply to every single encounter 21:06:51 hypothetical god ideas 21:06:59 that sounds like a shitty god idea 21:07:10 How would someone doing this manage to get runes 21:07:12 then again, I don't know everything. 21:07:24 would be quite troublesome without either 21:07:30 is it as bad as the god of bloody murder 21:07:31 some kind of super movement abilities 21:07:48 something akin to shadow form 21:07:49 or 21:07:56 I forgot the 3rd thing I was going to say 21:08:35 yeha 21:08:37 nicolae-: you can always drop me emails (any length) about gods... but you already knew that :) 21:08:59 no-backtracking looks like high potential to me 21:09:02 i'm not entirely sure "no murders" would really work out, i think the least-killingest win, at least online with stats, was still in the couple hundred range 21:09:11 random god P for 0.16! 21:09:25 if things go very well with no-backtracking, it might go in 0.17 21:09:29 that would make me happy 21:09:46 There were two guys (one of them Thundamoo) doing a defensive god... some overlap there 21:09:49 !seen Thundamoo 21:09:50 I last saw Thundamoo at Thu May 22 16:38:18 2014 UTC (20w 9h 31m 31s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 240 seconds'. 21:10:09 I remember them 21:10:10 that was a while ago 21:10:14 they were also the plutonian guys, right? 21:10:16 seemed like nice people 21:10:20 dpeg: smith and I forget, some mason god? 21:10:20 nicolae-: oh, I didn't have "no murders" in mind. The god should definitely allow kills, just not demand them. 21:10:31 oh, well, there's lots of gods that don't demand them 21:10:33 -!- Mazed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:57 PleasingFungus: yes. Sent me emails about progress from time to time (also, I encouraged them). Seems dormant now :( 21:11:10 so it goes 21:11:15 nicolae-: I've got my thief god ideas on the wiki 21:11:43 PleasingFungus: I am saying this b/c their god also had a kind of no-backtracking conduct. I can look it up and put it up. 21:11:51 ah, that'd be nice, thanks! 21:11:59 i wonder if i could tweak the flavor a bit, less about stealing from other creatures and more about sneaking past them to get to the loot, like some kinda indiana jones 21:12:07 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:00 on the upside, knowing that my original idea wouldn't work will probably help me stop thinking about it all the time 21:13:11 haha 21:13:14 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleeeep] 21:13:22 no-backtracking-god is actually my second god idea 21:13:28 that I put any thought into 21:13:30 What's the first? 21:13:33 How do you go up from like 21:13:34 V:5 21:13:48 do you just have to give up piety or something 21:14:05 tabstorm: current conduct is "can't take upstairs if there's a downstairs or rune pathable from where you are" 21:14:11 ah 21:14:11 (an information leak, in a sense, but an intentional one!) 21:14:31 enforced conduct, or piety loss? 21:14:31 sounds like something I approve of 21:14:35 if hes "quite powerful" 21:14:43 imo have him help you find the downstairs 21:14:51 doomrl scout god 21:14:56 ya dpeg was talking about that 21:15:12 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:15:14 rchandra: probably penance on taking upstairs 21:15:25 hmm so you avoid lair, do depths, then can you do lair or would it have to be hell/pan/abyss from depths? 21:15:46 you can go wherever once you've gotten to the bottom of an area 21:15:52 there was a harsher 'strategic' version of the god being discussed that basically wouldn't let you revisit floors at all 21:16:14 but I think that would impose too much of a burden on the rest of the game's design (wrt races, branch layouts, etc) 21:16:31 so basically god of you can't get any other runes but pan runes 21:16:38 I guess the hellpanabyss can't count as pathable, it encourages 15-runing too much (and is very cruel when you get hell lair) 21:17:01 yeah branch entrances wouldn't count for requiring entry, I think 21:17:33 oh so you can even do lair, 1 rune, then v (but to 5), etc 21:17:35 yeah 21:17:54 !send elfrobin rchandra 21:17:54 wait 21:17:54 Sending rchandra to elfrobin. 21:17:56 you cant get 15 runes? 21:17:59 or you have to dump the god 21:18:02 you can 21:18:03 did i read that right 21:18:16 I feel like I've explained something wrong 21:18:34 you're allowed to go back up once you get to the bottom, i think 21:18:45 but if you do it beforehand you get dinged 21:18:48 ya 21:19:11 it's kind of like every branch is a mini-pan where you gotta make sure you got everything before you go 21:19:30 make him quite powyrful and help you find da stairs 21:19:34 ill play him 21:19:34 :) 21:20:14 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:17 it'll be my pleasure :) 21:20:37 i hte finding the dang branch entries 21:20:38 so 21:20:46 hate* 21:21:14 probably I want to iron out a first draft of the god (right now it's pre-first-draft), then gdd it and let people yell at it for a while, and then see where it goes 21:21:26 not in any hurry 21:21:28 Seems legit 21:22:13 buff gda first tho 21:22:31 already did? 21:22:37 make it er 35 ac 30 21:22:43 pls 21:22:43 no 21:22:44 power idea for no-backtrack god: stand on a staircase and peek at the surroundings on the level below, and choose whether or not to go down those stairs 21:22:54 rchandra: You are being crushed by your armour. 21:22:59 didnt see 21:23:02 dunno how that would work with level generation though 21:23:08 rchandra: actually that sounds like an unrand idea of some sort 21:23:12 nicolae-: just generate the level! 21:23:15 also I really like that idea 21:23:15 this isn't just a speedrun god then (I hope)? 21:23:17 huge AC, sets EV to 0 21:23:20 gammafunk: oh, no 21:23:24 k, cool 21:23:31 Grunt: adds ev to ac 21:23:38 Basil: mmmmmm 21:23:38 darkly-mauled plate armour 21:23:44 dark plate 21:23:46 why set EV to 0 when you can just have insane ER values 21:23:47 there's a note on the bottom of the page saying "this might be strong for speedrunners but w/e CORRECTION: elliptic says makhleb would still be better for speedrunners" 21:23:53 gothic plate, perhaps 21:23:59 gothic plate!!! 21:24:02 heh 21:24:03 sounds like a diablo item 21:24:05 I like it 21:24:12 wouldnt it screw with your melee 21:24:14 sounds like doomrl 21:24:15 as well? 21:24:25 tabstorm: sets your attack delay to maximum for the weapon 21:24:27 though idk that more evp than cpa/gda is really meaningful for almost any char 21:24:28 ah 21:24:29 no relation to http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Gothic_armor no sir 21:24:43 that's the weight joke 21:24:44 hmm 23 21:24:47 is reasonable 21:25:01 i had an idea for an unrand armor that would give you big benefits but as you wear it, over time it slowly lowers your maxhp. some kind of evil necromancy, maybe 21:25:03 I guess you could make it 27 evp 21:25:16 nicolae-: I'm people who remove the armour before autotraveling 21:25:18 used to be 27 before armour bugfix 21:25:24 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:27 rchandra: ya I saw that in the logs 21:25:30 For catharsis I want a god that's about killing other gods 21:25:34 which is what made me think about it 21:25:46 gammafunk: dpeg wants lucy to get piety for corrupting altars instead of for sacrificing corpses 21:25:47 PleasingFungus: yeah, that was one downside. i figured it'd be okay if the rot didn't happen except every couple hundred turns, but still 21:25:52 another q related to armour/dodging mechanics: 21:25:59 man. this shit is harder than i thought. 21:26:13 when you have lots of evp, you overcome it by training dodging to some point 21:26:17 where it does nothing 21:26:21 then eventually it starts gaining normall 21:26:24 nicolae-: ghoul armour 21:26:30 nicolae-: give it Contam or something <_< 21:26:47 Could you rescale the formulae to make dodging not "not do anything for 10-15 levels in heavy armour" 21:26:52 tabstorm: reaverb was working with someone to do that a while ago 21:26:56 O 21:26:57 back when he was around 21:26:57 well 21:26:59 hes ded now 21:26:59 but he had math issues 21:27:06 I support the idea but I'd need to look at it 21:27:07 yes that changing would be nice. maybe have EV divide some f(aevp) 21:27:13 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27:23 but no idea on a sensible function 21:27:32 ye idk the math thats used 21:27:40 but that way id have motivation to get like 10 dodging 21:27:47 earlier 21:27:48 let's clear out my randart ideas file... gloves that can be evoked for apportation. 21:27:58 and you wont like confuse people who think that plate makes dodging not do anything 21:27:59 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 21:28:10 ya no I'm on-side here 21:28:17 just need to figure out a formula that works 21:28:18 hmm 21:28:19 yea 21:28:28 you want the final numbers to be the same 21:28:35 I think 21:28:43 idk I need to think about it a bit 21:29:05 I wonder how well 'final' is defined, if stats are involved... 21:29:18 yes that too 21:29:30 I guess hold stats & armour constant, vary armour & dodge skill 21:29:45 Well I think something like 21:30:17 Generating object statistics for 100 iteration(s) of 48 level(s) over 7 branch(es). 21:30:21 Monster ogre in stone_wall at (31, 22) 21:30:21 Monster ogre in stone_wall at (31, 22) 21:30:28 Why do scythes have to suck? 21:30:38 Taraiph: because Sigmund doesn't need to be any deadlier 21:30:40 Taraiph: so sigmund isn't op, obv 21:30:40 Taraiph: same reason clubs and daggers have to suck 21:30:42 why do polearms in general suck? 21:30:46 PleasingFungus: hi.............. 21:30:49 they don't 21:30:49 Grunt: <3 21:30:50 wut 21:30:57 polearms are like the most op weapons 21:31:15 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:31:18 I've never been able to figure out how that is 21:31:22 Sure they can hit from further away 21:31:29 but that's what bows are for 21:31:49 i think mathematically the free attack ends up being better despite the worse basedam/delay under N turns 21:31:57 where N > turns youre likely to kill something in 21:32:42 bows do less damage* and require ammo**, two things that aren't true for polearms 21:33:13 transmutations do much higher damage than any of these things :^) 21:33:19 also bow berserk isn't very good 21:33:30 hmm how does double brand longbow compare to a bardiche 21:33:41 well if you are comparing melee to ranged then every melee weapon class is bad 21:33:42 (i mean velocity + freezing vs. bardiche of freezing) 21:33:48 just in dam 21:33:48 !send tabstorm bowzerking 21:33:48 Sending bowzerking to tabstorm. 21:33:54 i think its comparable just guessing 21:34:13 <|amethyst> !send Grunt bowzer, king koopa 21:34:14 Sending bowzer, king koopa to Grunt. 21:34:34 -!- Amy is now known as Guest22121 21:35:31 |amethyst: imo code it up :) 21:36:28 <|amethyst> fire breath, summon mushrooms, summon snapping turtle 21:36:32 <|amethyst> maybe jump attack? 21:37:27 definitely jump attack 21:37:33 1-tile shatter on landing 21:37:35 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:37:42 Grunt: pit traps 21:37:52 unique alligator snapping turtle, comes with a gang of named snapping turtles, casts fireball OR orb of fiery destruction 21:37:56 pls no pits 21:38:19 tabstorm: would you say that they're 21:38:20 !glasses 21:38:20 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 21:38:22 quite bad? 21:38:26 you got me 21:38:31 PleasingFungus: how pitiful. 21:38:33 i expected "the pits" 21:38:39 :) 21:38:44 this is going to mess up my millisnarks 21:38:54 oh no!! 21:38:54 I have been rused 21:38:57 I am a master ruseman. 21:39:04 dang 21:41:50 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:57 have i ever told you that time when crawl worked pretty good with upped hp/mp regen 21:43:10 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:04 no 21:44:47 for heaven's sake, don't encourage him. 21:45:56 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:09 why doesn't deep elf have DD abilities for MP 21:46:23 ? 21:46:32 as in start with a wand of heal mp? 21:46:39 why dont we have a wand of heal mp 21:46:41 -1 mmp for !mag I'm guessing 21:47:02 a wand of heal mp sounds kind of really dumb 21:47:10 yes 21:47:20 does it heal mmp? 21:47:24 well itsmore "im surprised it wasnt put in" 21:47:26 (DD power combo) 21:47:35 there was talk of an item 21:47:38 which I liked the sound of 21:47:40 even though its redundant with !magic 21:47:43 that increased mp regen rate 21:47:45 so is /hw and !hw 21:47:47 maybe a cloak? 21:47:54 could be a neat cloak ego 21:47:56 gammafunk the impartial 21:48:05 imo put MPregen on "regen 21:48:11 Basil: right, sorry, tell me which explosions we need again 21:48:13 increased mp regen sounds rlly good. 21:48:19 gammafunk: mana explosions 21:48:27 helmet ego 21:48:51 -!- ghoulishh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:49:13 maybe I'll just dream something up after....sigh 21:49:17 ??gammafunk[1 21:49:17 gammafunk[1/6]: TODO: infiniplex's elf:3 at low weight, make monster color inherit when possible, moon wizlab, depths encompass, grand avatar movement bug, make HD-or-other-checking things sane wrt MR-immune, mnoleg fast tentacles, make mnoleg tentacle heads shove through X when possible 21:49:39 I can do that first one tonight....I...I know I can 21:50:01 Deep Deep Elf would have !magic, sacrifice mhp for !magic, MP shaving on effects, no MP regen, etc. 21:50:34 read: https://copy.com/PXE1BS93FvAkgHYJ try it out 21:50:40 hmm 21:50:47 sounds like a good plan for Golems 21:51:09 Deeper Elf 21:51:13 deepest elf 21:51:14 imo 21:51:16 except more HP and giant 21:51:18 ;) 21:51:20 unique idea: the deepest elf 21:51:38 oh I should figure out what I did with that iron giant patch 21:51:40 only spawns in branch ends, obviously 21:51:42 http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Deep_one 21:51:57 fr: deep 2 21:52:15 There is a large level difference between the deep ones and deepest ones, 21:52:28 S has really 21:52:29 !glasses 21:52:30 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 21:52:31 gone off the deep end 21:52:45 We should always try to take any feature from Slash-Em that we can 21:52:46 it has over-Extended itself 21:52:53 !banish gammafunk 21:52:53 Grunt casts a spell. gammafunk is devoured by a tear in reality! 21:53:02 !xxx Grunt 21:53:03 gammafunk gestures. 8 tentacled monstrosities appear! The tentacled monstrosity tentacle-slaps Grunt! x8 21:53:28 !tornado gammafunk 21:53:28 Grunt mumbles some strange words. A great vortex of air appears and lifts Grunt up! gammafunk is engulfed in raging winds. 21:54:27 entirely too silly 21:54:36 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 21:54:54 hrm, targetter_shadow_step I guess 21:54:57 1learn add devteam 21:55:30 r??devteam 21:55:31 devteam[17/20]: : really, in general i just like things that are mean for no reason(: 21:55:44 hmm 21:56:24 those damn smileys 21:56:43 tabstorm: yeah the math is very flat - there's not an obvious way to make it multiplicative. I'll sleep on it, I think 21:56:48 re dodging & armour 21:56:56 also I think there are two separate armour dodging penalties 21:57:03 yeah 21:57:43 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 22:01:22 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:45 ??shadow_step 22:03:46 shadow step[1/2]: Ability of Dithmenos granted at 2* piety; cost 4 MP and some piety. When used, allows you to teleport adjacent to a creature that is currently immobile. The maximum range is approximately the same size as your umbra. 22:04:43 approximately 22:04:48 I believe I repaired that 22:05:04 !learn edit shadow_step s/immobile.*/immobile and in your umbra./ 22:05:04 Use: !learn edit shadow_step[NUM] s/// 22:05:08 !learn edit shadow_step[1] s/immobile.*/immobile and in your umbra./ 22:05:09 shadow step[1/2]: Ability of Dithmenos granted at 2* piety; cost 4 MP and some piety. When used, allows you to teleport adjacent to a creature that is currently immobile and in your umbra. 22:05:50 !function _str_to_ego 22:05:51 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mapdef.cc;hb=HEAD#l4762 22:05:54 grrr that thing 22:07:28 haha 22:07:32 that's one of two? three? mappings 22:07:34 iirc 22:08:51 I recall spending like 20 minutes tearing my hair out because one of those things hadn't been updated in the past 22:09:01 before the asserts were there, I guess 22:09:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1188-g7552c39: Move cast_dispersal into spl-transloc.cc 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 33+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7552c39d0240 22:09:41 possibly should have credited Tnurg on that one 22:09:44 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:09:54 hopefully he doesn't mind too much :) 22:10:00 hrm, I see all these TAG_MAJOR on the ability enum 22:10:04 but that's never marshalled... 22:10:15 could be hypercorrection 22:10:20 I know there's been other stuff like that 22:12:06 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:16:41 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:17:37 !rip . 22:17:40 gammafunk the Caller (L5 HESu), worshipper of Sif Muna, hit from afar by a thorn hunter (volley of thorns) on Temple, with 413 points after 22587 turns and 0:10:59. 22:17:50 man, that was the WORST temple 22:17:52 wow 22:18:00 stupid fedhas altar!!! 22:18:30 barely avoided the hell sentinel guarding makhleb 22:18:32 and then that happens 22:18:43 huh 22:18:47 I... huh 22:18:55 !rip PleasingFungus 22:18:56 !lg * killer="thorn hunter" min=xl 22:18:56 263. Mong the Skirmisher (L1 FoAK of Lugonu), hit from afar by a thorn hunter (volley of thorns) on Abyss:1 on 2013-12-08 00:48:32, with 0 points after 33 turns and 0:00:20. 22:18:56 PleasingFungus the Summoner (L14 TeSu), worshipper of Sif Muna, slain by an anaconda on Snake:1, with 70500 points after 32783 turns and 2:20:29. 22:19:04 Grunt: it could happen! 22:19:09 rip 22:19:15 !lg * killer="thorn hunter" min=xl !ak 22:19:16 253. soonmide the Skirmisher (L1 DsCK of Xom), slain by a thorn hunter (kmap: infiniplex_forest_join) on D:1 on 2014-07-07 22:46:33, with 4 points after 343 turns and 0:02:53. 22:19:28 !vault infiniplex_forest_join) 22:19:28 Couldn't understand ) 22:19:30 !vault infiniplex_forest_join 22:19:30 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/serial/forest.des;hb=HEAD#l288 22:19:37 hm 22:19:59 why was there a thorn hunter in temple? 22:20:05 PleasingFungus: polymorph 22:20:23 sounds like a xom plant poly gone very wrong, ya 22:20:34 or very right...? 22:20:39 oh 22:20:39 but he was worshipping sif! 22:20:40 that reminds me 22:20:57 nicolae-: oh, I was talking about the soonmide death 22:21:16 oh, yeah, makes total sense there 22:21:22 i was asking about gammafunk 22:22:05 !rip nicolae 22:22:06 Subcommand $(!lg * recent !won !boring xl=${lm[2]} br=${lm[4]} lvl>=${lm[5]} fmt:"${vmsg}|${place}|${sc}|${turn}|${dur}" fmt:'${n}') failed: '${lm[2]}' is not an integer in 'xl=${lm[2]}' in $(rand $(!lg $(re-replace -t... in $(split | $(!rg * $(=rip.opt... in $(ripformat ${lm[0]} ${lm[1]... 22:22:09 oops 22:22:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:22:28 are we ever gonna make MiBe even more broken 22:22:33 !rip Taraiph 22:22:37 Taraiph the Basher (L7 GrBe), worshipper of Trog, blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:5, with 676 points after 3192 turns and 0:06:28. 22:22:42 !rip nicolae 22:22:43 Subcommand $(!lg * recent !won !boring xl=${lm[2]} br=${lm[4]} lvl>=${lm[5]} fmt:"${vmsg}|${place}|${sc}|${turn}|${dur}" fmt:'${n}') failed: '${lm[2]}' is not an integer in 'xl=${lm[2]}' in $(rand $(!lg $(re-replace -t... in $(split | $(!rg * $(=rip.opt... in $(ripformat ${lm[0]} ${lm[1]... 22:22:48 well, then 22:22:50 lololololololol 22:23:02 i know i've technically played online at least once 22:23:08 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:23:08 !lg nicolae 22:23:09 4. nicolae the Caller (L2 DrSu), slain by an adder on D:2 on 2013-01-04 22:13:27, with 96 points after 1145 turns and 0:06:41. 22:23:16 yeah, sounds about right 22:29:45 03ChrisOelmueller02 {Sage} 07* 0.16-a0-1189-g866e5ec: Reword MR resist message for fewer message collisions 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=866e5ec6456e 22:30:15 wait. what 22:30:19 oh, I misread 22:30:27 !reword PleasingFungus 22:30:33 got author/committer backwards 22:31:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:32:15 chris the dev 22:33:48 * PleasingFungus quivers in fear! 22:35:33 An aura of fear fills ##crawl-dev! You are terrified of it! 22:35:33 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:43 r??it 22:35:43 it[26/42]: The tentacle segment, the tentacles, and its are blown away by the wind. 22:35:48 wow, that's a good one 22:36:21 glaciate or saltify? 22:36:32 no need to be salty 22:36:38 oh 22:36:41 I'm reminded again 22:37:10 ??it[shudder 22:37:11 it[18/42]: Its shudder. 22:38:17 augh 22:38:22 -!- PMBall has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:10 ?/aaaa 22:39:10 Matching entries (4): dragon_form[1] | test[49] | vampiric_draining[2] | xuaxua[2] 22:39:17 ??vampiric draining[2 22:39:17 vampiric draining[2/2]: Aaaarggghhhhh! 22:41:00 Basil, a challenge: get that message in modern Carwl 22:41:01 *Crawl 22:41:04 (yes, it can be done) 22:41:10 I got it before 22:41:15 good 22:41:16 ! 22:41:16 vdrain on shadow wraith 22:41:48 hmm 22:43:08 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 22:43:36 -!- mong has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:54 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:44:33 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:44:42 -!- FatShack is now known as TendaAway 22:48:06 PleasingFungus: can metamorphosis card give hydra form 22:48:22 I have absolutely no idea 22:48:33 checking 22:48:42 not at present 22:48:52 I guess you'd probably put it in oh my god this code 22:48:58 someone thought they were clever! 22:48:59 haha 22:49:07 1learn add devteam 22:49:16 !source decks.cc:1946 22:49:16 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/decks.cc;hb=HEAD#l1946 22:49:48 it is not Wrong 22:49:52 except in a moral sense 22:50:21 anyway yeah I'd stick it in power 2 maybe 22:50:37 though the card probably needs a redesign in any case 22:50:44 since it's not really Good for most nem chars 22:52:41 there was a suggestion to make them give some UC skill 22:52:58 that might be good at least for the things that meld your weapon 22:53:02 hi, any server owners around? wondering if you can give indication of system resources per concurrent players for dcss 22:53:03 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:54 -!- circ-user-cOian has quit [Client Quit] 22:54:56 I think there's a command that lists that. !cost, maybe? it lists something 22:54:57 PF: my reason for thinking that was 22:55:06 SH is sort of like weird EV 22:55:12 sure 22:55:13 -!- elmdor has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:21 except its sort of complicated 22:55:21 and players arent really going to know about the complications 22:55:37 my preference would be to expose the complications in-game, rather than eliminate them 22:55:49 not that i have many bright ideas for doing that :) 22:55:51 at least with shields just giving AC, having ER 22:55:55 its like everything else 22:55:59 yes, of course. 22:56:06 i like this of course maybe you dont 22:56:10 but the difference is, I think that's a bad thing! 22:56:25 we already have three aux armour slots of "just like everything else"... 22:56:54 idk Im just not a fan of shields behaving differently 22:57:09 they just end up being sort of bad 22:57:15 currently 22:57:40 not just because of the penalties 22:57:45 but also the opportunity cost of not using 2h 22:58:12 I'd strongly disagree with that, honestly 22:58:18 there are a lot of characters who are best off using shields 22:58:21 well 22:58:22 Trolls 22:58:26 Fo dont count 22:58:29 ha 22:58:31 yes 22:58:43 many primary-casters end up liking shields quite well at present 22:58:47 and that yes 22:58:55 because they just want more "evasion" 22:59:05 but I don't think they're too good for actual meleers 22:59:10 well, they want more defenses, and they aren't using 2h weapons 22:59:12 unless you have like a dblade of elec 22:59:33 I think most primary-melee characters are better off without a shield, but it really depends on what you find 22:59:41 in terms of weapons and in terms of shields 22:59:42 also 22:59:49 I don't see how changing them to give ac and evp would change that at all 23:00:05 because if your str is good you dont feel the aevp much can get some more AC 23:00:14 so you might think about 23:00:18 "1h + shield vs 2h" 23:00:26 if you get real protection and not pseudoEV 23:00:31 you still have the opportunity cost of 2h, though. 23:00:32 and also don't get a ton of penalties to make up for 23:00:46 Sure but at least you get some protection without dumping as much XP into it 23:00:54 like large shields 23:00:55 idk. if you don't think the protection is real, try playing fi with and without your starting shield 23:00:57 basically unusable 23:01:04 I think everyone agrees that large shields are in a dumb position 23:01:07 if you arent Large 23:01:10 for non-fo/large races 23:01:12 even regular shields, sort of eh 23:01:21 bucklers are OK but again cant use 2h 23:01:23 so 23:01:29 not worth it for 5 ev 23:01:37 -!- DrStalker has quit [] 23:02:08 !function is_armour_brand_ok 23:02:09 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc;hb=HEAD#l1815 23:02:12 I can sort of see the angle: "Well if you use a 1h + shield, instead of putting Xp into weapon, you split it between weapon and shield" 23:02:18 though 23:02:59 since youre only going up to like 14 skill 23:03:03 ya 23:03:03 vs. 24 or so 23:03:15 so itd sort of buff 1h + shield 23:03:20 in a way maybe 23:03:24 though with more evp im not sure 23:03:49 you could also just remove the weird multi-hit interaction with shields and maybe tweak the numbers 23:03:52 -!- ruwin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:03 the question of "give shields evp" and "switch from sh to ac" ... those are two different questions, I think 23:04:36 well imagine a regular shield gave like 23:04:37 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:38 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 23:04:41 I was thinking about something that was close to the first, though not in those terms; I remain opposed to the latter, as I've explained already. 23:04:42 4 AC, 4 EVP 23:04:44 like a barding 23:04:52 bardings don't give evp, do they? 23:04:54 yes 23:04:55 they have 4 23:04:56 i think 23:04:57 My understanding was they gave flat -ev. 23:05:02 which is different. 23:05:09 oh nope 23:05:10 im wrong 23:05:11 just ev-2 23:05:23 doesn't affect casting, attacks, etc 23:05:34 nope 23:06:03 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:08:05 well never mind 23:08:10 I'm trying to remember the reason I was reluctant to just add evp to shields. 23:08:15 There was a reason. 23:08:22 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:27 well they have ev-5 23:08:29 currently 23:08:32 large shields for instance 23:08:45 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:34 it's sort of odd that - currently str increases sh. 23:09:35 well itd also get sort of weird if things outside body armour gave ER 23:09:57 it feels slightly odd that it'd both do that and reduce penalties. 23:10:00 though I guess not that odd. 23:10:34 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1190-gcacb006: Don't let black mark affect firewood 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cacb006d678b 23:10:34 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1191-g82feaa5: Fix more zin debug spamminess 10(24 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82feaa510ffe 23:10:44 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:55 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:11:04 well 23:11:21 tabstorm: you mean like being a gr 23:11:34 what thing 23:11:41 the "shield gives AC" thing? 23:11:56 oh i read that wrong, nevermind 23:12:03 but not the shield thing 23:12:05 o 23:12:14 oh did you misread as "things outside body armour give AC" 23:12:23 i misread it as gdr 23:12:28 o 23:12:32 i dont even know what that does btw 23:12:34 which i think is true anyway 23:12:35 i know it exists 23:12:37 but thats it 23:12:57 crawls combat seems pretty dang opaque 23:13:02 no way. 23:13:05 no way! 23:13:18 all i know is 2h good, EV good until at least like 25, AC good always 23:13:27 smash puny elves 23:13:36 !crush puny elves 23:13:36 Grunt beats puny elves like a drum!!!! 23:13:47 someone told me that EV starts doing more when you have ev > enemies to hit 23:13:57 which is some function of their HD and fighter flag 23:14:03 not sure though 23:14:47 It would explain why EV feels like its doing something around 15-20 23:16:22 -!- meatpath has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 23:16:40 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:52 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:04 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:02 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:23:03 -!- shummie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:23:51 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:20 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:54 &rc araganzar 23:25:55 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:56 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/araganzar.rc 23:31:17 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:29 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:42:22 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:31 hm. this is supposed to prevent stat death, but.. 23:43:13 oh, I see. 23:43:17 heh. 23:45:57 -!- nano_ is now known as nano 23:46:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1192-gb91e0ce: Add Hydra Form to Metamorphosis (simmarine) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b91e0ce0b4e7 23:46:44 mmm stat death 23:47:38 the relevant code is only called if transform is in 'optional' mode, which it isn't in metamorphosis. so it'll happily collapse you (as I discovered in my first/last new nem game) 23:47:45 (spriggan -> bat = negastr) 23:47:51 wow that sounds fun 23:47:57 it's a bad card 23:48:09 not intentionally, I think 23:50:29 -!- zvx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:30 ghosts of paralysed characters have 0 ev 23:55:12 yes 23:57:07 03gammafunk02 07* 0.16-a0-1193-g3cebfc1: Remove jump-attack 10(87 minutes ago, 37 files, 109+ 619-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3cebfc1d9e22 23:58:22 !!! 23:58:33 ??jump_attack 23:58:33 jump attack[1/2]: Gained from boots of jumping or the innate Felid mutation. Attacks a target at range, after choosing a random, safe landing site adjacent to the monster. Causes exhaustion, can't be used while exhausted, ensnared, or in water. The boots have range 4, the mutation has range 3,4,5 by level. You can't stab with jump-attack. 23:58:36 ??jump_attack[2 23:58:36 jump attack[2/2]: Cannot jump over flying monsters. This will prevent you from choosing certain targets as well as limit the possible landing squares for targets you can reach. 23:59:16 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:25 felid nerds itc 23:59:27 er 23:59:28 nerfs 23:59:30 both 23:59:59 !learn edit jump_attack[1] s/^Gained/Removed in 0.16. Was gained/ 23:59:59 jump attack[1/2]: Removed in 0.16. Was gained from boots of jumping or the innate Felid mutation. Attacks a target at range, after choosing a random, safe landing site adjacent to the monster. Causes exhaustion, can't be used while exhausted, ensnared, or in water. The boots have range 4, the mutation has range 3,4,5 by level. You can't stab with jump-attack.