00:00:04 <|amethyst> oh 00:00:05 turnaround time of... 11 minutes 00:00:10 |amethyst: mm? 00:00:14 <|amethyst> never mind 00:00:35 <|amethyst> hm 00:02:10 <|amethyst> many of those checks (including that one) are for things prevented by _get_randart_properties anyway 00:04:17 yeah, I figured it was easier to make the check correct for now, rather than removing redundant checks for redundant properties 00:04:42 <|amethyst> yeah 00:05:07 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: zzzzzz] 00:05:18 <|amethyst> I'm not sure there isn't some code path where it matters 00:06:59 not that I can see, but the randart_is_bad check is exposed and called by wiz-item.cc 00:07:42 that code path can't generate rings anyways, but there's the possibility of calling the method from somewhere new that doesn't check things. 00:08:24 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1049-g0a3dd61 (34) 00:08:55 <|amethyst> ah, so it does affect wizmode 00:09:25 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:09:57 <|amethyst> oh 00:09:58 -!- Kashira has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:10:15 fr: commit_is_bad 00:10:24 <|amethyst> that's just stats, not prop tweaking 00:11:21 yeah, I don't think there's any current code path for which those "provides" matter, but the function is available for new code paths that might 00:11:42 not that it seems very likely 00:11:52 estick (L18 DsFi) (Shoals:4) 00:12:49 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:15:53 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:18 FR: rcfile option (only relevant for offline...) ^s takes you to main menu rather than closing crawl 00:19:01 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1049-g0a3dd61 (34) 00:19:28 -!- Stumpsv has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:21:45 <|amethyst> read: I agree, and a similar one for ctrl-q 00:22:02 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 00:22:36 <|amethyst> hm 00:23:18 <|amethyst> or maybe not for ctrl-q 00:23:27 <|amethyst> err 00:23:56 <|amethyst> I mean, I was thinking of an option for ctrl-q to bypass restart_after_game the way ctrl-s currently does 00:24:09 <|amethyst> but maybe that's not really useful 00:24:22 <|amethyst> I guess it would be most helpful for ragequits 00:24:52 <|amethyst> "Fuck you, I don't want to see the menu." 00:25:26 <|amethyst> and maybe encouraging ragesaves instead is what we want after all 00:25:56 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:05 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:26:30 -!- AnnoyedKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:13 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:52 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:25 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:20 !lg devteamnp ktype=quit s=name 00:31:20 3598 games for devteamnp (ktype=quit): 845x Neil, 826x gammafunk, 379x wheals, 273x MarvinPA, 217x sorear, 180x dpeg, 160x bh, 131x bookofjude, 84x 78291, 78x ontoclasm, 73x erisdiscordia, 61x SamB, 56x rob, 55x evilmike, 35x HangedMan, 25x haranp, 22x pointless, 16x Sage, 14x PleasingFungus, 14x elliptic, 13x KiloByte, 9x evktalo, 7x Lasty, 4x mumra, 4x edlothiol, 3x doy, 3x SGrunt, 3x Keskitalo,... 00:31:56 |amethyst is interested in help with ragequits...for a friend 00:32:05 -!- MgDark_HuIE has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]] 00:33:01 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:27 <|amethyst> !lg . quit s=place 00:34:27 845 games for |amethyst (quit): 825x D:1, 11x D:2, 4x Abyss, 3x D:3, D:9, Abyss:1 00:34:49 <|amethyst> hm 00:34:52 <|amethyst> !lg . quit d9 00:34:53 No keyword 'd9' 00:34:56 <|amethyst> !lg . quit place=d:9 00:34:57 1. Neil the Blackguard (L10 SpEn of Okawaru), quit the game on D:9 on 2012-08-16 05:36:31, with 4536 points after 9850 turns and 0:33:27. 00:35:01 <|amethyst> !lg . quit place=d:9 -log 00:35:02 1. Neil, XL10 SpEn, T:9850: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/Neil/morgue-Neil-20120816-053631.txt 00:35:58 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:22 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:25 <|amethyst> I don't remember why I stabbed the guy 00:36:34 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:39 <|amethyst> must have forgotten I was with oka, then completely ignored the prompt? 00:36:58 <|amethyst> ¡learn add devteam <|amethyst> I don't remember why I stabbed the guy 00:36:58 Okay, not adding devteam => <|amethyst> I don't remember why I stabbed the guy 00:40:13 -!- AnnoyedKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:42 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:43:28 -!- AnnoyedKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:42 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:47:46 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1049-g0a3dd61 00:51:57 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:54:22 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:56:49 Ring icons not displaying correctly 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9017 by wjchen 00:57:00 erp 00:57:03 that's gonna be on me 00:57:12 I'll take a look in a little bit 01:01:32 -!- pentax has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:01:46 ...huh, vorpal attacks always chop off hydra heads, even if they wouldn't normally have done enough damage 01:01:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:05:09 yes 01:05:27 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1050-g2c5d886: Fix whitespace. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c5d88619e63 01:05:27 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1051-g70978d4: Add an option to return to the menu after saving (read) 10(22 minutes ago, 5 files, 22+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=70978d4886ad 01:05:29 that's very silly 01:05:38 yeah well its called vorpal!!!!! 01:05:47 not in-game, afaik? 01:06:03 <|amethyst> until recently 01:06:09 <|amethyst> "vorpalise weapon" 01:07:31 thanks a bunch for that commit amethyst :), been meaning to ask for ages. 01:07:54 |amethyst, you are extremely enthusiastic about investigating 9017. 01:08:12 I am a flawless judge of character and so can assert this with surety. 01:08:49 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:11 hmm i have a feature request 01:09:19 you know how the menu saves what species and stuff you chose last game? 01:09:29 well it doesn't do it if you've loaded a game in between 01:09:37 and I think it should 01:09:57 this is important for quickly playing sprint at work where I need to quit a bunch 01:10:27 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:11:06 <|amethyst> johlstei: which should it remember? 01:11:18 it should remember the species and background and stuff 01:11:28 if I start, save, load, die, start a new game 01:11:33 <|amethyst> johlstei: the last one you typed, or the game you last loaded? 01:11:35 it should remember what species I picked last time 01:11:38 hmm 01:11:46 ...good point 01:11:58 either would work for my usecase but I don't know 01:12:04 <|amethyst> sounds like a good idea 01:12:19 <|amethyst> I don't want to look at that code right now though :P 01:12:33 yeah i might tomorrow depending on when I leave 01:12:39 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus is presuming me into looking at tile code :P 01:12:50 ha 01:12:51 fine 01:12:52 i should start trying to write dcss code more 01:12:55 worth a shot! 01:13:10 first, I need to finish writing decapitate() 01:13:23 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I'm working on it 01:13:24 I want a relative success chance display before I cast hexes 01:13:29 oh! thanks! 01:13:29 <|amethyst> I think I see the line that needs to change 01:13:34 <3 01:13:39 why do I have to cast once before I see "barely resists" 01:13:47 so i might try that 01:13:48 johlstei: chriso has an old patch for that - wheals was working on it 01:13:55 talk to one of them 01:13:56 oh cool 01:14:02 -!- Calisca has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:02 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the better fix would be to reset RING_FIRST_RING back to regeneration, undo the things that changed to accomodate that, and explicitly skip it in item-gen code 01:17:34 what's the worse fix? 01:17:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: removing a couple of - RING_FIRST_RING 01:18:25 <|amethyst> actually 01:18:41 <|amethyst> probably shoud use #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION 01:19:02 <|amethyst> the worse fix that is 01:21:04 I'm not sure I follow, but you seem to have a plan... 01:22:10 -!- AnnoyedKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:24:28 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:24:56 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:18 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:25:22 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:47 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1052-g0a4cff4: Unshift ring icons (#9017) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0a4cff45a72d 01:26:00 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:26:35 erp 01:26:45 yeah I see what you mean about worse fixes 01:26:48 ugh 01:26:53 maybe I'll try to clean this mess up after this 01:27:00 <|amethyst> hm 01:27:23 <|amethyst> I guess a simpler fix might have been to move RING_ID_FIRST in dc-item.txt 01:27:44 <|amethyst> but this way generates more enthusiasm to fix it :) 01:27:57 ha 01:28:39 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:39:54 -!- teflonbiscuit has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:42:12 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:31 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1053-g066ab18: Replace LAST_FORM with NUM_TRANSFORMS 10(4 days ago, 5 files, 12+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=066ab18f3a11 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1054-g2cb2cc8: Add hydra form 10(4 days ago, 8 files, 121+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2cb2cc87e85a 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1055-g446e39f: Cleanup cleaving checks 10(29 hours ago, 5 files, 32+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=446e39f83d6c 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1056-ga3018cb: Add Hydra Form spell 10(4 days ago, 7 files, 40+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3018cbc89fe 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1057-g175a5a6: DEVOUR THY FOES 10(26 hours ago, 4 files, 114+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=175a5a65b8be 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1058-g346e4a4: Export NEVER_CORPSE_KEY 10(70 minutes ago, 5 files, 10+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=346e4a423964 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1059-gd16a32b: Export hydra form heads 10(70 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d16a32b2f97e 01:55:29 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1060-ga4330dd: Chop off some hydraform heads 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 166+ 72-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4330dd89ae4 01:55:40 I need to stop accidentally rebasing 01:56:12 anyway, I *think* that's all the features I wanted 01:56:56 need to sleep on it, and then idk 01:57:05 you took away the hunger? 01:57:09 yeah 01:57:21 I'm wondering where this is really going to sit usage-wise 01:57:29 as in, am I really going to want to use this over blade hands 01:57:42 it's a reasonable question 01:57:52 it does much more damage at high power, but then you have to get to high power 01:58:05 (by high power I mean 80-100 or so) 01:58:10 well damage, yeah but the risk, since bh doesn't nerf your defenses 01:58:17 ya 01:58:53 same problem that occurs with dform, really, but there's some help from it being higher level and hence giving you more time to get the charms you need 01:59:09 not sure about that logic 01:59:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1053-g198a393: Make escape actually cancel god choice. 10(18 seconds ago, 1 file, 5+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=198a39328562 01:59:43 it's just that dform is mediocre in the end since bh gives you enough damage without losing your ev and ac 02:00:06 the charms will offset that; statue has a similar problem that is mitigated by haste 02:00:10 hydra form is a level lower, hurts your ev less, and gives powerful cleaving attacks 02:00:16 re dragon form 02:00:43 yeah it's more the comparison to bh I'd be worried about; I'm saying dform has trouble competing with bh as well 02:00:47 ya 02:00:59 nerf blade hands (don't actually nerf blade hands) 02:01:43 <|amethyst> could make form AC/EV depend on spell power 02:01:55 <|amethyst> or on XL, but power is probably better 02:02:09 yeah, runs into the problem where 02:02:11 <|amethyst> for the not-low-level forms anyway 02:02:15 as tm you really need good dex 02:02:24 hydra form ac in fact does depend on spellpower 02:02:24 and can't go crazy with int 02:02:30 so does statue form 02:02:37 dragon form doesn't currently but probably could 02:02:48 but yeah if the defenses scale well with power, that is something 02:03:03 most tm stop training that school around 15 02:03:08 and don't mess with high spell power 02:03:16 not much reason to at present 02:03:32 right, I guess you could solve the form defenses that way 02:03:41 essentially encourage high transmutations 02:03:45 seems fairly naturally actually 02:03:52 like how conj/elementalists go 02:04:15 then the charms are more to fill in the defense gaps as you're getting those levels 02:04:23 rather than some kind of final solution to defense problems 02:04:25 <|amethyst> or because haste is still good 02:04:35 haste is pretty good. 02:04:37 yeah, I really mean like ozo/stoneskin/phase 02:04:45 those are pretty important for tm currently 02:04:54 well, those wouldn't be not good, even if forms were better. defensively. 02:04:56 <|amethyst> oh, you mean the charms spells, not the charms skill 02:05:03 and they could remain so, just not so "well it's time to light up my status bar" every fight 02:05:34 <|amethyst> ¡wtf VSCT => Vine Stalker Christmas Tree 02:05:36 yes that's what I'm saying, the charms would be there to help fill in the defenses, but in the end you'd achieve what you need with spell power 02:07:02 dcss ornaments, including a silver star at the top, even though it's AXED 02:07:57 poor star :( 02:09:16 ??rebuild 02:09:16 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 02:09:23 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:09:32 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 02:13:57 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1053-g198a393 (34) 02:15:57 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:18 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:18:37 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1053-g198a393 (34) 02:24:56 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1053-g198a393 (34) 02:27:24 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:57 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140911064110]] 02:33:05 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:10 3rd game I've had both Gauntlets of War and Fencer's Gloves, and I quote PleasingFungus "but how often do you get both in one game" !!!!! 02:41:29 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:41:52 read: if only you were formicid and could wear both!! 02:48:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:56:32 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:59:44 i could wear neither since i needed the rF from another pair :( 02:59:48 well in zot 03:11:20 -!- penciltax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:34 -!- braveplatypus has quit [Client Quit] 03:27:20 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:30:52 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:12 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:45:35 -!- Wahaha has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:47:22 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:49:16 -!- penciltax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:14 -!- braveplatypus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:15:19 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:20:25 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 04:31:57 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:35:21 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:42:38 -!- alefury has quit [] 04:46:53 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:38 -!- drke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:34 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:58:41 -!- drke has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:59:44 -!- drke_ is now known as drke 05:19:56 -!- schistosoma has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:21:07 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:25:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:26:21 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:28:04 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:28:32 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:29:57 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:39:40 -!- arcanist has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:41:32 -!- LIX is now known as FiftyNine 05:43:59 -!- ark is now known as Guest21303 05:44:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:46:46 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:16 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:47:56 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:55:31 -!- causative has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:55:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 06:01:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:01:22 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:01:45 -!- Guest21303 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:23 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:04:47 -!- domiryuu has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:08:43 -!- Pratfall has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:12:52 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:17:09 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 06:29:59 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:07 -!- Euphoria has quit [Client Quit] 06:34:28 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:10 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:13 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:41:01 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:42:18 -!- penciltax has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:56 -!- hauzer has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:52:32 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:54:36 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:00:52 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:52 -!- Lasty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:01:52 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:05:29 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:55 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:00 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:27:04 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:49 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:35:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:37:25 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:39:54 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:38 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:48:06 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:54:52 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:48 -!- braveplatypus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:56:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:58:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:09:22 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:11 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:11:23 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:32 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:18:20 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:18:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:20:15 Ring icons screwed post regen ring removal. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9018 by Psiweapon 08:21:24 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:23:30 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:24:07 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:27:25 -!- djanatyn has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 08:28:40 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:29 -!- CacoS has quit [] 08:32:28 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:09 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:39:27 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:44:55 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:05 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:51:37 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:52:28 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:52:47 uh 08:53:18 nevermind 08:53:20 an uncrused ring of ice and fire 08:56:06 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:29 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:02:17 -!- unpaidbill has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:38 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:04:03 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:24 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:05:51 More like an uncursed ring of protection from poison (but actually cold) 09:05:59 But that was fixed already. 09:05:59 man 09:06:07 so many bugs fixed before they were reported! 09:07:14 yes now if only the bug where the amulet of regeneration is as rare as a ring of controlled teleport was fixed 09:09:40 hmm 09:09:49 this might just be the most obscure bug I've ever found 09:10:31 1085 @The_weapon@ @_screams_@, "DON'T YOU DARE DIE ON ME NOW, @CAPS@ @player_name@!" 09:10:44 for some reason this literally prints @PLAYER_NAME@ instead of the player's name 09:11:04 sounds like someone made a mistake in mon_speak 09:11:52 reminds me of 09:11:52 dunno, 888 @The_weapon@ shouts, "Hey, monsters! @player_name@ is over here!" works fine 09:11:54 !bug 8094 09:11:54 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8094 09:12:56 hrmph 09:13:39 that line in the data file hasn't changed in about two years 09:13:55 no particular guarantee it ever worked, of course 09:13:57 -!- eoc has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:14:02 potatolizard: what version are you playing? 09:14:16 0.16-a0-798-g042ce40 09:15:21 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:28 PleasingFungus: ever wish we had unit tests? :) 09:16:44 also 09:16:44 1109 @The_weapon@ @_screams_@, "FASTER, @CAPS@ @player_genus@, KILL KILL KILL!" prints @PLAYER_GENUS@ 09:16:44 feh 09:16:44 potatolizard: good, it's consistent! 09:16:44 I'm sort of suspecting @CAPS@ has something to do with it 09:16:44 or rather, everything 09:16:44 I yep 09:16:44 found it 09:16:59 testing 09:17:07 considering how screaming sword has around a kajillion lines and a lot of them require crazy mad tension it's not particularly surprising no-one has ever encountered this 09:17:26 y e p 09:17:44 PleasingFungus: dang, beat me to it. do_mon_str_replacement never references @CAPS@ 09:17:54 well 09:18:12 that is not the problem 09:18:16 "NO PLURAL HANDS", that's a great message 09:18:48 -!- tonio213 has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:19:18 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:43 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:13 the problem is 09:24:13 !source _SINGING_SWORD_world_reacts 09:24:13 lines 387-388 apply @CAPS@ and randomization 09:24:13 then it calls item_noise 09:24:13 which does the rest of the substitutions 09:24:13 but it only checks for lower-case keywords, so it finds e.g. @player_genus@ but not @PLAYER_GENUS@ 09:24:14 man, all my weapon tiles are boned locally. I hope this isn't a real bug 09:24:14 weapon tile offset 09:24:14 s 09:24:16 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/art-func.h;hb=HEAD#l351 09:25:49 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:26 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:31:22 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1054-g4a46cac: Fix certain Singing Sword lines (potatolizard) 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4a46cac44604 09:35:13 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:39:24 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:42:17 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44:48 -!- Calisca2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:46:33 hm 09:46:44 I was vaguely thinking about giving worms fast regen. 09:46:51 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:47:05 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:52:50 sounds cruel 09:54:05 well 09:54:25 in principle, it would discourage pelting them with rocks for a million years, or kiting them with spears 09:54:28 (if untrained) 09:56:37 -!- Taraiph has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:21 -!- stonage has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:01:51 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:01:55 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:18 It's just that "fast regen" means "really fast regen" for monsters. 10:05:07 yes. 10:05:07 that is the intent, yes. 10:06:05 The problem here is that even just "some health regen" would make them unkitable like that. 10:06:19 Since pelting them with stones barely, barely does any damage. 10:06:27 -!- Mazed has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:06:47 Ah - you're saying it's overkill. 10:06:56 well yeah 10:07:03 trolls and hydras have fast regen 10:07:06 and they regenerate extremely fast 10:07:11 crimson imp (055) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-18 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Dam: 4 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fly, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | XP: 48 | Sp: blink | Sz: little | Int: normal. 10:07:11 %??crimson imp 10:07:15 worm (04w) | Spd: 6 | HD: 5 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 12 | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 9 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 10:07:15 %??worm 10:07:20 yeah 10:07:23 wait, seriously, 17-38? 10:07:25 imps are really hard to kill 10:07:26 no way. 10:07:34 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:41 unless you do enough damage to quickly knock them out 10:07:43 I had no idea worms were so tough. 10:07:50 XP: 9 10:07:50 wow 10:08:01 ooze (15J) | Spd: 8 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 5 | sense invisible | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 2 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 10:08:01 %??ooze 10:08:12 hobgoblin (07g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-7 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | XP: 2 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:08:12 %??hobgoblin 10:08:13 gnoll (08g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 8-18 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 9 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(10) | XP: 14 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:08:13 %??gnoll 10:08:25 I'm learning so much 10:11:15 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:11:17 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:4-8) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 10:11:17 %??adder 10:11:40 the earlygame really likes being exp starved 10:11:49 er 10:12:00 unless you happen to get a lot of adders and gnolls 10:12:00 that's an interesting way to put it 10:12:09 well 10:12:18 you either train one or two skills or you can forget about progress 10:13:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:18:51 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:21:21 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:37 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:15 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:52 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26:49 New branch created: wandcost (1 commit) 10:26:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[wandcost] * 0.16-a0-1055-gbbcd2b3: Make zapping un-ID'd wands waste charges 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 26+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bbcd2b369127 10:30:19 Beware: dpeg nears! 10:30:32 !learn d ru_to_do[7 10:30:33 I don't know about !learn d. 10:30:41 !learn del ru_to_do[7 10:30:41 Deleted ru to do[7/7]: remove rand round from ru piety 10:30:47 huh 10:30:56 that is an Interesting solution to that problem 10:31:05 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1055-g0cbfe56: Remove random rounding from skill points-based gain on Ru sacrifice 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0cbfe56f6af5 10:31:25 Players never have access to how many skill points they have, so always rounding down isn't gameable. 10:31:32 mm 10:31:36 I suppose 10:32:04 You'd prefer another approach> 10:32:14 nah it's fine now that i've actually seen the commit 10:32:17 thought it was something else 10:32:58 ok :) 10:34:33 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:39:42 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:42:08 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:00 btw, in case I wasn't clear yesterday, after learning about devouring, I'm excited about Hydra Form 10:43:58 !learn del ru_to_do[6 10:43:59 Deleted ru to do[6/6]: Improve Sac Love / Horn of Geryon interaction 10:44:26 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:46:17 it wasn't clear! 10:46:17 ty :) 10:46:17 testing & feedback welcome 10:46:23 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1056-g3883eed: Mark Horn of Geryon as useless under Sacrifice Love. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3883eed140e4 10:47:10 Oh, is it in a useable state atm? 10:47:25 I've added all the features 10:47:40 all that remains is poking at numbers and debating the basic viability & raison d'etre of the thing 10:47:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:47:46 haha 10:47:47 excellent 10:47:53 I'm gonna try it out 10:54:21 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:56:03 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:34 -!- Pluie|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:00:20 A wiz-moded level 14 Tm partially surrounded by yaks while using blade hands takes pretty heavy damage. Replace that with hydra form, and you devour everything handily, possibly gaining health in the process. Seems pretty strong. Let's try ancient liches now. :D 11:00:38 oh. are you using &pq hydra form 11:00:53 that casts at 200 power, so it's probably misleading 11:01:34 no, I'm casting at 14 TM skill + 7 Spellcasting + 18 int 11:01:43 seemed like a reasonable test case for low-power casting 11:01:55 int is a little high but sure 11:01:59 I get 5 or 6 heads -- probably shouldn't be random, since then I can game it 11:02:10 'game' it, yes 11:02:46 given the duration of the form, I'm honestly not that concerned about 'gaming' it 11:02:55 ah, fair point 11:02:56 I'd rather avoid skill breakpoints 11:03:04 s/skill/power 11:03:19 (there are already some with ac, sadly) 11:03:29 ancient liches tear me apart (which is no real surprise). I guess I can't devour them. 11:03:39 they're not really edible 11:03:39 What's the scariest thing you can devour? Draconian professionals? 11:03:49 gelid black sun (136) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 64-102 | AC/EV: 9/25 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(60), 02cold++ | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 1230 | Sp: b.draining (3d22), malign offering (2d20), black mark, dispel undead (3d24) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 11:03:49 %??black sun 11:03:55 yellow draconian knight (10q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 101-122 | AC/EV: 12/12 | Dam: 27 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 08acid | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1653 | Sp: s.acid (3d7+7d5); b.cold (3d25), b.draining (3d23), invisibility, simulacrum, throw icicle (3d25) / b.cold (3d25), b.lightning (3d21), vampiric draining, agony, throw icicle (3d25) / b.cold (3d25), throw icicle (3d25), haste, animate dead, armour | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:03:55 %??draconian knight 11:03:57 Killer Klown (05p) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 126-178 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(160) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 4744 | Sp: blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:03:57 %??killer klown 11:03:59 -!- trane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:04:02 klowns 11:04:27 which will heal you for, uh, 31-61 hp (and probably hurt you quite a lot more) 11:04:52 -!- Chase_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:01 not very happy about adding non-necro healing but idk, hopefully it's situational enough not to infringe the niche too much 11:05:07 (though it is a bit vamp draining) 11:05:20 hmm, is there a wizmode effect for cure draining 11:05:38 I don't know of one, annoyingly 11:05:58 probably &h should 11:06:07 <|amethyst> maybe not &h 11:06:08 <|amethyst> but &H 11:06:17 doesn't &H also increase mhp by 10 11:06:34 also, why does &H increase mhp by 10 11:07:25 I don't know, but it's done that for a long time 11:07:36 &H does cure draining 11:08:03 imho remove the +10 mhp thing because wtf 11:09:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:11:49 Wow, the number of heads can be fairly random. I'm getting between 4 and 6 with 18 TM, 7 Spellcasting, 18 int 11:13:54 -!- Euphoria has quit [Quit: Partake of my vision. Partake of my curse.] 11:15:30 (forced update) 11:15:36 now my local hydra commits are ruined 11:15:48 oh. Lasty1, |amethyst, opinion on dpeg's wand thing? I forget if you've opined on it before 11:15:48 (branch wandcost) 11:15:48 hm 11:15:48 that's... odd 11:15:48 I would only expect a difference of 1 head 11:15:48 do you have anything that could be randomizing spellpower? 11:15:48 hm 11:15:48 !source div_rand_round 11:15:48 alternately, are you getting heads chopped off by something 11:15:50 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/random-var.cc;hb=HEAD#l203 11:16:07 gammafunk: I know you're joking but I'm still sorry :( 11:16:17 I have terrible habits wrt remote branches 11:16:34 PleasingFungus: not as far as I know 11:16:53 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1057-g147e427: Remove a half-implemented fakelang 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 0+ 58-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=147e427589e2 11:16:58 There goes my hyrda-sif commits, into the aether 11:17:06 re: wand charge draining on ID, it's a severe nerf to wands, but they can probably take it. I'm not excited about the idea, but I wouldn't fight it 11:17:07 what is a hydra-sif 11:17:42 PleasingFungus: The starting heads are between 4 and 6, not the heads after/during combat 11:18:27 Datapoint: with 18 TM skill and UC, 14 Fighting, 15 Dodging, Hydraform tears up four draconian zealots w/o much trouble. 11:19:22 6 is difficult -- nearly killed me -- but didn't 11:20:46 -!- ElanMorin has left ##crawl-dev 11:21:50 Lasty1: what are your ac/ev? 11:22:03 in hydra and w/o 11:22:24 are you hydra-diesel, is what I'm asking 11:22:44 (I invented hydra-diesel, just let that be noted now) 11:23:18 -!- ElanMorin has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:24 gammafunk: in hydra form 8/19 11:23:38 ok. just chekcing 11:23:38 nice 11:23:38 of course, those aren't exactly melee enemies :) 11:23:38 Lasty1: re wand nerfs, I'd be fine with doing something to compensate if it really seemed necessary. I'd suggest adding more starting charges, but of course that would make the id choice less meaningful again... 11:23:38 also, opinion: should /fireball be placed in the same category as fire/cold/draining etc, or should it be buffed? 11:23:38 right now the game seems to think it's /hw tier 11:23:39 HYDRA-DIESEL 11:23:39 hm 11:23:39 !lg * won status~~dragon x=status 11:23:39 oh, right, sequell is dying 11:23:39 rip 11:23:41 149. [status=mighty,brilliant,agile,berserking,divinely vigorous,dragon-form,phasing,flying,very slightly contaminated,hasted] johnnyzero the Conqueror (L27 OgTm of Elyvilon), escaped with the Orb and 11 runes on 2014-09-18 07:23:35, with 8006360 points after 114860 turns and 9:17:57. 11:23:43 killer klowns are much, much worse -- they seem to be inedible 11:24:00 that's... odd. they shouldn't be, I think? 11:24:03 did anyone else just get like 15 messages from PF all at once? 11:24:08 yeah 11:24:10 he lagged 11:24:14 oh. maybe I'm dying, not sequell 11:24:20 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140911064110]] 11:24:34 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:57 ok let's try this. 11:25:21 IMO fireball is a weak wand -- sure it always hits, but it does pretty bad damage. I definitely would not put it at /HW tier 11:25:24 !lg * won status~~dragon-form diesel x=ac,ev 11:25:25 No games for * (won status~~dragon-form diesel). 11:25:39 :( 11:26:12 Lasty1: yes, I agree! so the question is if it should be moved up (at least to /invis or /tele tier, which oddly are the same tier), or whether its value should be moved down at least to fire/cold (increase max charges, etc) 11:26:20 I kind of like the idea of buffing it, tbh 11:27:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:27:21 Well, lemme think about the wand proposal aloud: it means nerfing wands; it means buffing ?ID by making the ID game more valuable; it makes Evo more valuable for free IDs. The only one of those I'm against is making Evo more valuable -- it's already fantastic. 11:27:35 it doesn't make evo more valuable 11:27:47 Sure it does, since Evo increases your odds of getting a free wand I 11:27:48 ID 11:27:51 Lasty1: you made a god that can take away all your evo tho!!!! 11:27:51 the effect is based on whether you know wand *type*, not *charge count* 11:28:04 evo only gives you the latter 11:28:20 Oh, really? So it's only the first zap? 11:28:24 Huh. 11:28:40 I swear dpeg was talking about it depending on knowing the number of charges, but I could have misread. 11:28:56 this is specifically the first zap, yes 11:29:01 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:11 gammafunk: yeah, and it's worth a lot of piety. :p 11:29:16 you know how it's always best play right now to zap-id wands? 11:29:19 it's mostly about that 11:29:46 PleasingFungus: Okay, fair enough. That's even less controversial. Admittedly, I'll still zap-id most wands under the new system. 11:29:47 PleasingFungus: so if you already have ided /fire, you'll never get these wasted charges? 11:29:54 gammafunk: correct 11:30:09 hrm, for some reason that doesn't jive with my memory of the discussion about this earlier 11:30:12 or if a monster zap-id'd it at you :) 11:30:16 let me check my email 11:30:17 but I'm probably mis-remembering 11:30:18 In that case, I'm not against it, but I'll barely notice it also 11:30:27 will you still zap-id wands? 11:30:30 yes 11:30:35 except the ones I already ID 11:30:38 okay. we had this discussion before. 11:30:46 uh 11:30:48 I seem to remember it was that it would happen always when the charges were unknown 11:30:51 you don't know which type of wand it is 11:31:01 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:01 so you don't know whether it's a type of wand you'd already id 11:31:04 (e.g. wands from acquirement / troves) 11:31:17 oh, he was talking about charges, you're right 11:31:20 that's really dumb though 11:31:22 gammafunk: I remember the same thing 11:31:30 PleasingFungus: well the idea is just what Lasty1 just said 11:31:33 you'd still zap-id 11:31:38 it'd be not very impactful 11:31:39 -!- Lasty1 is now known as Lasty 11:31:51 what if it emptied the wand? 11:32:03 O.o 11:32:11 Now that would be a huge nerf 11:32:13 I've had this exact conversation before, btw 11:32:27 there is a number of charges for which zap-id costing extra charges is meaningful 11:32:33 well, that seems fair. I'm not saying anything I wouldn't expect others to say. 11:32:38 That would certainly make the ?id on finding new wand type worth it 11:33:22 PleasingFungus: how about, it drains all wands generated in the dungeon 11:33:24 there I outdid you 11:33:26 quite powerful 11:33:30 So yeah, there's probably some number of charges drained that would make me hold on to wands. But would it apply to wands monsters use on you? If so, they take that choice away from you 11:33:32 but that seems excessive :) 11:33:36 Lasty: of course it wouldn't 11:33:38 they know the type! 11:33:52 But so do you after they use it (in most cases) 11:33:56 yes? 11:34:07 also we should probably auto-id wands used by enemies along with this change 11:34:11 to prevent dumb abuse 11:34:15 yeah 11:34:20 but thanks to enemies not picking up seen items 11:34:22 it's not too bad 11:34:24 yes, exactly 11:34:26 So monsters become free-ish IDs of wands. Specifically, hex wands you'd want to let the monster affect you once before killing them to get the free ID (unless the monster is actually dangerous) 11:34:27 even if we didn't do that 11:34:36 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:34:38 oops, you already handled that case 11:34:42 yes, exactly 11:35:54 You realize I need my ?id for potions/?mmap/?fear/?blink; You're trying to make it so I never get the branch rune 11:36:40 could always boost ?id generation back up a little bit along with this change, if we really wanted. not enough to fully compensate, since that would be silly, but some halfway thing 11:36:48 I'd still zap ID if the ID fee is 4 or fewer charges. Possibly 6 or fewer. The wands you're most likely to see early (before you have tons of ?ID) have lots of charges and can make a big difference in survivability. The top-tier wands often have few charges even after you zap-id them in the current system. The only place where you get bit by that size ID fee is with the beam wands. . . 11:37:23 ug, yeah 11:37:29 could make it a % wastage 11:37:31 I'm thinking about /disint and /dig 11:37:53 those might have too many max charges at present, honestly 11:38:04 (% wasted based on max charges) 11:38:24 well we removed dig the spell 11:38:36 and there's just the fact that you hae to use those wands more frequently 11:39:13 I think it's better that you have a rarer /dig or /disint possibly than you have to carry like 3 of each 11:39:34 I'll accept that 11:39:36 maybe it just depends on how many charges we'd actually change it to 11:40:18 yeah like it'd drain approx 50% of wand, you're thinking? 11:40:40 well, 50% on avg or 50% max, since those are very different things 11:40:50 I was suggesting basing it on max charges, but basing it on current charges *might* make more sense 11:41:15 since 50% of max charges would essentially mean "drain the wand" 11:41:20 which, I mean, we could do that if we wanted, but... 11:41:25 I thought we already had a plan about what to do with wands 11:41:30 hrm, yeah I was actually thinking max, but I suppose that's also true, provided we don't leak how may charges were wasted 11:41:30 the thing suggested by dpeg 11:41:38 elliptic: we're discussing the ramifications 11:41:53 also it turns out I misunderstood exactly what he meant 11:41:53 PleasingFungus was thinking of something else, but elliptic what did you want to see specifically? 11:42:03 and kind of strongly disagree with his actual plan 11:42:06 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 11:42:25 1d3 charges wasted each zap when the charges aren't known? 11:42:31 PleasingFungus: well a brief skimming over what people were talking about here suggests that you are actually talking about a different proposal 11:42:39 yes 11:42:41 similar! 11:42:42 gammafunk: yes 11:43:00 I of course only realized this after implementing it (in a branch) : 11:43:02 ) 11:43:31 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:34 -!- Crehl has quit [Client Quit] 11:43:52 gammafunk: (or rather, 1d3-1 charges "wasted") 11:44:04 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:44:07 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:28 ah, so you'll wast 1 extra charge on average 11:44:37 numbers are flexible of course 11:44:58 that was just what was suggested then 11:44:59 PleasingFungus: there's also evo skill and the new formula for charge id 11:45:08 what about them? 11:45:10 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:35 Well if you get 13.5 evo, you get a 50% chance of not having this effect? 11:45:39 if that's how it works 11:45:47 of the original dpeg proposal, yes 11:45:49 not my version 11:45:59 (though it would be very easy to implement it so that it went off either way, on the first zap) 11:46:14 Well I'm saying maybe dpeg's proposal is pretty good, since the way you mitigate this at first is ?ident and over time it's with evo skill 11:46:20 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:46:22 gammafunk: well, we could make the extra charge cost come before the check to see about IDing charges 11:46:31 either way is an option 11:47:09 gammafunk: in my proposal, you at first mitigate this with ?ident, and then with already having identified wand types 11:47:15 Yeah I'm more considering that dpeg's proposal isn't actually too onerous for the player 11:47:25 anyway I strongly prefer linking this sort of effect to identifying charges rather than identifying wand type 11:47:25 elliptic: why? 11:47:51 gammafunk: what do you mean by "onerous"? 11:48:23 because if it is linked to identifying charges, then there is a continuing cost of using a wand without IDing charges rather than a one-time cost 11:48:31 Again, my only objection to dpeg's proposal is that it makes Evo even better, and that's not a big objection. 11:48:39 PleasingFungus: it's "onerous" on the one hand, compared to your idea, because it happens on even wands of known type, but in practice it would be ok (I'm thinking) 11:48:43 It also makes the early game harder, but I don't mind that 11:48:44 and also because of strangenesses with monsters using wands and IDing the type that way 11:48:59 or IDing type via a vault-defined wand, say 11:49:00 elliptic: Is a continuing cost better than a one-time cost? 11:49:08 it seems more interesting to me 11:49:21 ok. that's obviously subjective, but okay. 11:49:45 also I feel like it would be much more effective at getting me to use ID on wands 11:50:05 well, in the end I don't have that much energy for fighting over it 11:50:12 so I'll go back and implement dpeg's version 11:50:15 since it would make using ID on wands of a known and good type very tempting 11:50:20 !send PleasingFungus |energy 11:50:20 Sending |energy to PleasingFungus. 11:50:25 elliptic: tbh that's already tempting 11:50:32 Another datapoint: the same Hydraform character o-tabbing through Snake only had trouble when 1) getting massive fire damage from salamanders w/ reaching, 2) getting deep, deep red poisoning from all the mages in the rune vault, and 3) when only able to attack naga warriors with shields and also deeply poisoned. 11:50:39 Everything else could be tabbed through w/o tactics 11:50:50 ??hydraform 11:50:50 I don't have a page labeled hydraform in my learndb. 11:50:55 PleasingFungus: mostly because ID scrolls are way too plentiful later on at the moment 11:51:01 Lasty: what level was that guy, again? 11:51:26 !learn add hydraform DEVOUR THY FOES 11:51:27 hydraform[1/1]: DEVOUR THY FOES 11:51:32 like I ID all tele/haste/heal wounds wands currently, but that's because I have 15 scrolls of ID and nothing else to do with them and knowing how many charges my third wand of tele has is somewhat useful 11:51:40 16, but with somewhat distorted skills: 18 TM, 7 Spellcasting, 18 UC, 14 Fighting, 15 Dodging 11:51:46 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:52 yeah, it'd remain a pretty good use for ?id and a nice benefit to very high evo 11:52:12 Subjectively, as a player I could never tell when I was going to eat something and get a huge HP boost or not 11:52:16 !learn add hydraform[1 Strongly power-dependent form that gives a powerful cleaving attack. Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. Beware the AC cost... 11:52:16 hydraform[1/2]: Strongly power-dependent form that gives a powerful cleaving attack. Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. Beware the AC cost... 11:52:19 and it felt very swingy 11:52:24 as a result 11:52:34 But overall it was a powerhouse 11:52:52 but not, I would guess, against inedible targets 11:52:54 ok 11:52:58 honestly, I think I'm okay with that 11:53:00 well 11:53:04 the swinginess sounds not quite ideal 11:53:11 but powerhouse is a good place to start 11:53:17 I was mainly worried that it would be too weak 11:53:26 gammafunk: it might make sense to increase the effect of evo on charge-IDing even more - like, instead of the chance being evo/27, it could be 1 - (1 - evo/27)^2 11:53:49 we can see how things feel with the current formula 11:54:47 -!- Shados_ has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:55:24 !calc 2.0^2 11:55:25 Unknown field: x 11:56:02 Lasty: unless it lets you do Pan at XL14, it isn't too powerful. 11:57:24 !learn replace 11:57:24 I don't know about !learn replace. 11:57:34 right 11:57:54 1learn set 11:57:55 !learn edit hydraform[1] s/Strongly power/Strongly spellpower 11:57:56 No change: regex `Strongly power` does not match `Strongly spellpower-dependent form that gives a powerful cleaving attack. Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. Beware the AC cost...` 11:58:01 -!- zerkmund1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:01 hahah 11:58:05 I literally just did the same thing in ##crawl 11:58:13 i see 11:59:41 does it still have uberregen 11:59:46 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 12:00:15 nope, it traded that away 12:00:25 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:32 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:35 Lasty: were you following a god? 12:00:50 >:[ 12:01:28 oh 12:01:30 ultimate test 12:01:33 -!- CacoS has quit [] 12:01:34 hydra form vs hydra 12:01:47 wow, and we have the same no. of heads 12:01:59 I won 12:02:05 brutal 12:02:15 but then again, I devoured a quoka that joined the fight 12:02:18 oh no!!! 12:02:21 you monster 12:02:30 oh but that was post-hydra-kill 12:02:55 how are the hp restored determined? By the no. of chunks essentially? 12:03:13 ??hdyraform 12:03:14 hdyraform ~ hydraform[1/2]: Strongly spellpower-dependent form that gives a powerful cleaving attack. Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. Beware the AC cost... 12:03:16 -!- Zooty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:22 hd, hrm 12:03:35 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 9248 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 12:03:35 %?? orb of fire 12:03:37 guess that's probably for the best 12:03:38 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:41 orbs of fire aren't edible :) 12:03:56 PleasingFungus: I'm wearing rf+++ so they should be 12:04:06 gammafunk: you're not a monster! That's not fire immunity! 12:04:10 -!- Vizer has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:12 dang 12:04:14 You hungrily devour the orb of fire! Ouch! Your tummy hurts... 12:04:40 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:05:28 PleasingFungus: no, no god 12:05:39 delicious spicy balls 12:05:39 pff, spoilsport 12:05:40 You feel foolish! You haven't been paying attention. 12:05:45 Makh would be a great combo tho 12:06:02 coincidentally, makh is a good combo with everything 12:06:10 makh is basically the better berserk god 12:06:15 (was just trying to check if there could be any conducts preventing you from eating things) 12:06:42 because if there's one thing that makes killing enemies fast good 12:06:46 bh: Hydraform is particularly bad against inedible foes like most of pan. 12:06:49 then it is receiving healing from killing enemies 12:07:14 well, demonspawn exist 12:07:18 technically 12:07:20 and spawn in packs 12:07:44 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1058-g54a1dc8: Increase /fireball power considerably 10(83 seconds ago, 1 file, 16+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=54a1dc874041 12:07:51 uh oh 12:07:55 what did you do 12:08:25 buffed /fireball 12:08:34 it was a really bad 9 charge wand 12:08:39 possibly should have included the word "wand" in there 12:08:42 rip 12:09:06 PleasingFungus: to be fair, demonspawn are rarely a threat -- mostly just black suns in my experience 12:10:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if someone doesn't know what / means that's their problem :P 12:10:40 Lasty: what were the hydra-form ac/ev you had in pan? 12:10:41 |amethyst: no, I mean, mainly for anyone grepping the log later :) 12:10:54 Lasty: they are, however, *extremely* edible. 12:11:12 gammafunk: didn't go to pan, but my EV/AC were constant through the tests 12:11:28 8/19 12:11:53 Yeah I'd be fairly terrified on having those stats fighting a mob in pan 12:12:10 and 1v1 I'm likely just using bladeh 12:12:17 in pan, you would *probably* have ozo's/stoneskin, if not phase shift 12:12:25 To Be Fair 12:12:31 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 12:13:12 ozo's will be melted by a lot of things, so stoneskin is the only reliable one 12:13:12 also, lasty, I forget - what did you set your dodging to? 12:13:12 well, ozo + phase could get you ballpark reasonable, but still pretty bad 12:13:12 ^ and what was your dex 12:13:12 Bloax: eh, there's surprisingly little fire in pan, and it's not as damaging to ozo's as you'd expect 12:13:14 oh 12:13:23 PleasingFungus: 15 12:13:25 is it no longer "oh hey A PUFF OF FLAME haha it's all gone!!!" 12:13:27 Bloax: the form lasts for very few turns, so you'd only care vs explicitely fire things 12:13:37 stoneskin has bad max ac 12:13:44 yeah stoneskin is... reliable but weak 12:13:52 Lasty: v respectable 12:14:01 and ozo doesn't just "poof" when you get hit by one fire attack 12:14:02 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:04 15 is kinda low if we're talking pan 12:14:04 what's a scary profession for demonspawn aside from black sun? 12:14:05 it degrades 12:14:09 Bloax: it was snake 12:14:21 Lasty: corrupter 12:14:26 first zot monsters, then snake 12:14:33 chaos champions are assholes too 12:14:36 it's def. not "oh hey a puff of flame and it's all gone" 12:14:42 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:14:44 warmongers can be dangerous v occasionally 12:15:01 huh, I can't get it to create corrupters 12:15:29 -!- qwerty has quit [Client Quit] 12:16:05 it's ano 12:16:07 *an o 12:16:09 I mispelled it 12:16:16 unknown monster: "corruptor" 12:16:16 %??corruptor 12:16:19 unknown monster: "torturous corruptor" 12:16:19 %??torturous corruptor 12:16:21 fuck 12:16:23 hm 12:16:26 demonspawn corruptor? 12:16:29 gelid corrupter (096) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 67-114 | AC/EV: 6/12 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(60), 02cold++ | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 1369 | Sp: plane rend, corrupt body | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 12:16:29 %?? corrupter 12:16:34 ah 12:16:35 no I'm illiterate 12:16:37 hm 12:16:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-1057-g147e427 (34) 12:16:58 did someone rebuild cao? 12:17:03 after what? 12:17:08 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, this is just the usual time 12:17:11 ah ok 12:17:12 huh 12:17:18 it's cszo and which other at midnight? 12:17:25 <|amethyst> cszo and cdo 12:17:30 and are these times stored in learndb somewhere? 12:17:33 would be nice to know 12:17:37 <|amethyst> and clan probably 12:17:42 ??cszo 12:17:43 cszo[1/4]: Server in Florida, US: crawl.s-z.org -- ssh port 22, username crawl, key at http://dobrazupa.org/cszo_key (openssh) http://dobrazupa.org/cszo_key.ppk (putty), or use the {CAO key} or the password "crawlingtotheusa". In case of DNS problems, use crawl.dobrazupa.org. Also has webtiles at http://crawl.s-z.org/. 12:17:45 <|amethyst> cbro has a weird update schedule 12:17:46 <|amethyst> ??cbro 12:17:46 cbro[1/3]: Server in Georgia, US: crawl.beRotato.org -- ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys (no password access). In case of DNS problems, use crawl.boylecraft.net. Webtiles at: http://crawl.beRotato.org. Use glyph/sigil ^ for bots 12:17:48 <|amethyst> ??cbro[2] 12:17:49 cbro[2/3]: Announced by Rotatell. Maintained by johnstein . 12:17:49 <|amethyst> ??cbro[3] 12:17:50 cbro[3/3]: "Be Excellent to each other. If you can't be excellent, Be Civil. If you can't be civil, Be Offline" --herrdoktor (Be Rotato!) 12:18:04 ??cszo[3 12:18:04 cszo[3/4]: Webtiles and console share the same saves, and can watch each other; chatting doesn't work between the two, though. 12:18:06 ??cszo[4 12:18:07 cszo[4/4]: If CSZO has DNS problems, try crawl.dobrazupa.org , a different hostname (with a different DNS server) for the same machine (but HTTPS will report an error). 12:18:09 ??rebuild 12:18:09 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 12:18:11 I update CBRO after midnight PST 12:18:16 maybe put an entry in ??rebuild 12:18:17 3 corrupters was no problem 12:18:19 with times for each? 12:18:31 Or I guess just in the server entries 12:18:32 5 got out of control due to the number of summons and the fact that they wouldn't close in on me 12:18:35 heh 12:19:02 Lasty: are you telling me you didn't train summons to get aura 12:19:12 weird. I thought I had the update time in there 12:19:21 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:25 <|amethyst> !learn add cszo Updates around 01:00 US Eastern time (05:00 or 06:00 UTC depending on time of year). 12:19:26 cszo[5/5]: Updates around 01:00 US Eastern time (05:00 or 06:00 UTC depending on time of year). 12:19:34 |amethyst: ty 12:19:34 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:45 it would be nice to have all the update times centralized in ??rebuild[2] 12:19:56 gammafunk: I'm trying a brute force test -- no subtlety or tactics 12:20:12 <|amethyst> !learn del cszo[5] 12:20:12 Deleted cszo[5/5]: Updates around 01:00 US Eastern time (05:00 or 06:00 UTC depending on time of year). 12:20:20 Lasty: ok, then I'm like the guy spectating you on webtiles while you're doing that, I guess 12:20:36 but dang it he's a console user! 12:20:40 haha 12:20:45 also I'm doing it offline 12:20:52 ??offline 12:20:52 offline[1/1]: doesn't count 12:21:07 It seems like the odds of devouring demonspawn is pretty low. It must be influenced by more than just the coinflip . . . 12:21:14 ??clan[3] 12:21:14 clan[3/3]: Rebuilds trunk at 00:00-GMT+1 and 0.15 at 20:00-GMT+1. 12:21:48 I think that's the only rebuild time I see in learndb right now? 12:22:34 ?/rebuild 12:22:35 Matching terms (1): rebuild; entries (3): clan[3] | no_vaults[1] | rebuild[1] 12:22:45 ??no vaults 12:22:46 no vaults[1/1]: If you started your game before the dungeon split and Vaults didn't generate, transfer your game to -844 or later and/or ask for a server rebuild 12:22:52 that seems outdated :P 12:23:03 well, probably still accurate 12:23:10 but the 844 is for what version exactly... 12:23:36 fr: git query by version and commit number 12:24:22 ??cdo 12:24:23 cdo[1/4]: Crawl server (also running 4.1), located in Germany, crawl.develz.org, telnet port 345 or ssh port 22, ssh-username: crawl, ssh-key necessary: http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key (openssh) or http://crawl.develz.org/cao_key.ppk (putty) 12:24:28 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:36 <|amethyst> !learn add rebuild Trunk update times in UTC (second number during summer time): CSZO: 0600/0500; CAO: 1700; CDO: 0600/0500; CLAN: 2300/2200; CBRO: 0800/0700 and 2300/2200 12:25:37 rebuild[2/2]: Trunk update times in UTC (second number during summer time): CSZO: 0600/0500; CAO: 1700; CDO: 0600/0500; CLAN: 2300/2200; CBRO: 0800/0700 and 2300/2200 12:25:48 <|amethyst> those might be off by one? 12:26:12 <|amethyst> I assume everyone but CAO is in a timezone with summer time, and that it is summer time now 12:26:25 <|amethyst> s/sume/sumed/ 12:26:46 ??cao 12:26:46 cao[1/2]: Crawl server, located in Tucson, AZ. USA, http://crawl.akrasiac.org/ or crawl.akrasiac.org ssh port 22 ssh-username:joshua ssh-password: joshua. Runs the latest stable release, trunk, and robotfindskitten. Further information on the website and ??putty entries for Windows users. Also see http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/howto 12:26:56 Arizona doesn't have daylight saving time? 12:27:00 <|amethyst> it does not 12:27:09 <|amethyst> http://www.timeanddate.com/time/us/arizona-no-dst.html 12:27:31 is it worth trying to standardize the server update times a bit? 12:27:49 <|amethyst> if anything I'd standardise them to be more staggered 12:28:26 <|amethyst> but I'm not sure about that; there would be downsides too 12:28:29 I originally had CBRO updating the same time as CZSO and CDO but moved them because I would often play at that time and didn't like the server lag :p 12:28:49 -!- Elynae has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:29:17 hm. elliptic , will the 1d3/zap wastage really discourage you from zap-iding? 12:29:43 it seems like you still have the really obvious unchoice of zap-id'ing everything, and then a fresh encouragement to ?id good wands after 12:30:13 -!- Elynae_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:30:49 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 12:33:39 I'm feeling increasingly like this is a bad idea 12:33:45 this version of wandcosts 12:33:48 -!- flowsnake has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:00 I mean, an improvement on the current status quo 12:34:17 but not really solving the problems it set out to 12:34:18 PleasingFungus: the point is that at many stages of the game there are a high number of unknown wand types that you would want to ID 12:34:19 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:37 <|amethyst> I don't think the 1d3 thing is intended to make you not zap-ID? 12:34:37 because if you are going to actually make use of the wand, you are saving a lot of charges 12:34:45 <|amethyst> I thought it was intended to make you want to use ?ID more 12:34:56 <|amethyst> so it gives you a reason to do that even after you zap-ID 12:34:57 I really don't like the zap-id unchoice 12:35:00 |amethyst: that too 12:35:06 are we going to make wands auto-id type on pickup along with this? 12:35:07 <|amethyst> could do both 12:35:31 <|amethyst> both large-drain-on-zap-ID and small-drain-on-zap-when-not-fully-IDed 12:35:32 PleasingFungus: that's an option, yes (my preferred option also, but dpeg wanted to try it without that first) 12:35:40 ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 12:35:47 I think this is really quite a lot worse than my suggestion 12:35:48 (of course!) 12:35:57 -!- rumblingbread has quit [Client Quit] 12:36:06 hrm 12:36:11 tbh I like elliptic's idea 12:36:21 |amethyst: I don't think there need to be more encouragements to id wands with known types 12:36:23 t b q h 12:36:39 I mean, the thing is, when do we really want people to ever think "ok, I'm going to zap this wand at that wall" 12:36:40 I think that's something that's useful but not critical, and that's okay 12:37:11 I think the answer is we never really want people to do this 12:37:38 gammafunk: yeah, and the safest way to ensure that is to make wand type ID on pickup 12:37:53 in which case PleasingFungus' proposal also solves that problem, but does so in a way that doesn't make ?id interesting thorugh the course of the game 12:38:08 the dpeg+elliptic idea solves the problem and does keep ?id interesting for wands 12:38:13 gammafunk: it doesn't necessarily even solve the problem 12:38:22 it just tries to discourage the behavior 12:38:28 yeah, that is also true 12:38:36 New branch created: wandcost2 (1 commit) 12:38:36 03PleasingFungus02 07[wandcost2] * 0.16-a0-1055-g408d7f2: Make zapping not-fully-ID'd wands waste charges 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 43+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=408d7f24a263 12:38:38 strongly discourages, but doesn't make it totally useless 12:38:50 wow 12:38:52 emergency consumable use is a memorable experience 12:38:55 *two* wand cost branches 12:39:09 also I finished implementing this shortly before my latest round of kvetching 12:39:28 <|amethyst> of course PleasingFungus should make wandcost2 branch as buggy as possible to encourage people to prefer the other one :) 12:39:30 PleasingFungus: yeah but the symbols ? and ! are nice for this 12:39:41 we don't need to use every symbol to get that 12:39:47 ~ 12:39:54 lua console? hrm... 12:40:34 crawl.gank(los.orcs()) 12:44:14 -!- fiyawerx_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:19 hrm, I just went makky but maybe that's a poor choice for testing hydra form 12:45:39 ..hydra form?-) 12:45:53 Makhleb is almost certainly the best hydraform god . .. 12:46:04 since it evens out the unfortunate cases where you don't devour your foes 12:46:19 the problem is seeing what the effect of hydra form hp restore is 12:46:24 not everyone is going to go makky ofc 12:46:24 hydraform?? 12:46:25 Strongly spellpower-dependent form that gives a powerful cleaving attack. Edible foes smaller than you are devoured when killed, healing you based on HD. Beware the AC cost... 12:46:29 gammafunk: indede 12:46:31 8indeed 12:46:33 :p 12:46:34 lol 12:47:23 when is hydraform going to exist 12:47:47 at this rate, probably quite soon 12:48:04 When enough people start clapping simultaneously 12:48:13 !kw tm 12:48:13 Built-in: tm => cls=Transmuter 12:48:23 Clap if you believe in hydras. 12:48:45 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1059-g0df7b3e: Auto-ID wand type on mons zap 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0df7b3ee543d 12:48:50 !lg . br=swamp s=ckiller 12:48:50 47 games for gammafunk (br=swamp): 13x quitting, 4x a hydra, 3x the Lernaean hydra, 2x a Hell Sentinel, 2x an alligator, 2x a raven, 2x a swamp worm, 2x cloud, 2x a spriggan rider, a vampire mosquito, Jorgrun, a giant frog, a thrashing horror, a spriggan druid, a bog body, Aizul, a vapour, a bog mummy, a baby alligator, a thorn hunter, a swamp dragon, Agnes, a player ghost, a red wasp 12:48:57 i'm not going to clap 12:49:02 :( 12:49:11 <|amethyst> we still need hound form, imp form, and Become Horrible Thing 12:49:33 wait, there's no summon statue 12:49:38 I guess spire kind of counts 12:49:46 Menagerie Form? 12:49:50 but we'd need ..yeah 12:49:55 <|amethyst> gammafunk: servitor and guardian golem too 12:50:03 |amethyst: eldritch form 12:50:05 I don't think I'd bother learning Spammals Form 12:50:08 mm, impitis form 12:50:08 <|amethyst> and summon blade hand is actually Hexes not Summoning 12:50:09 (players need help with that last?) 12:50:13 Lasty: quokka form???????? 12:50:17 Lasty: I hope you don't think spammals is bad 12:50:23 If so, prepare for a long lecture in pm 12:50:29 gammafunk: I don't, but that doesn't mean I want to -be- it :p 12:50:31 tbh quokka form would be a hell of a lot better than beastly appendage 12:50:36 ok, fair point 12:50:39 and batform...! 12:50:41 <|amethyst> Lasty: vampires get spammals form 12:50:46 haha, true 12:51:06 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:51:13 PleasingFungus: I get that speed 12 would be nice, but that's hardly a valid critique of beastly append! 12:51:26 ya it's completely unfair 12:51:27 which is a very good spell (power wise) 12:51:55 . . . especially once we allow it to give you VS bite. :D 12:51:55 !lg goodplayer recent urune=3 tm won s=god 12:51:56 No games for goodplayer (recent urune=3 tm won). 12:52:05 btw nerf vs bite 12:52:07 !lg goodplayers recent urune=3 tm won s=god 12:52:08 64 games for goodplayers (recent urune=3 tm won): 20x Okawaru, 10x Cheibriados, 9x Makhleb, 7x Fedhas, 5x, 3x Qazlal, 3x Ashenzari, 2x Dithmenos, Gozag, Jiyva, Nemelex Xobeh, Elyvilon, Yredelemnul 12:52:13 wow, so few! 12:52:14 !won * cv=0.16-a vs 12:52:15 * (cv=0.16-a vs) has won 80 times in 4820 games (1.66%): 17xVSBe 9xVSAs 7xVSMo 5xVSGl 4xVSCK 3xVSAK 3xVSHe 3xVSIE 3xVSSk 2xVSAM 2xVSDK 2xVSEE 2xVSFi 2xVSNe 2xVSTm 2xVSWn 2xVSWr 2xVSWz 1xVSAE 1xVSAr 1xVSCj 1xVSEn 1xVSFE 1xVSHu 1xVSSu 1xVSVM 12:52:15 beastly appendage is sort of like infusion that doesn't cost you MP each time you hit 12:52:17 PleasingFungus: yeah, that's on my list. Haven't gotten around to it yet. 12:52:17 !won * cv=0.16-a 12:52:18 * (cv=0.16-a) has won 705 times in 58845 games (1.20%): 23xMiFi 18xMiBe 17xVSBe 12xGrFi 11xFoFi 10xDsBe 10xDsGl 10xGrBe 9xDDBe 9xTrMo 9xVSAs 8xDsFi 8xOgHu 7xCeHu 7xDrTm 7xVSMo 6xDDFi 6xDECj 6xMfIE 5xDEFE 5xDsCK 5xDsMo 5xDsWn 5xGrEE 5xVSGl 5xVpEn 4xCeWn 4xDDWn 4xDrWn 4xDsFE 4xFeBe 4xGhWn 4xGrMo 4xHECj 4xHOFi 4xHOGl 4xHOWn 4xKoBe 4xMiGl 4xSpBe 4xSpEn 4xTrCK 4xVSCK 3xDDNe 3xDEEn 3xDEIE 3xDrCj 3xDrMo ... 12:52:18 well, recent I guess 12:52:36 !lg * cv=0.16-a s=race / won o=% 12:52:37 705/58845 games for * (cv=0.16-a): 1/3x Lava Orc [33.33%], 6/90x Green Draconian [6.67%], 5/78x Mottled Draconian [6.41%], 5/85x Red Draconian [5.88%], 4/89x Grey Draconian [4.49%], 35/877x Deep Dwarf [3.99%], 3/78x Pale Draconian [3.85%], 19/537x Ghoul [3.54%], 2/74x Purple Draconian [2.70%], 2/75x Yellow Draconian [2.67%], 25/1420x Naga [1.76%], 10/578x Halfling [1.73%], 29/1691x Troll [1.71%], ... 12:52:40 wait uh 12:52:42 wait. 12:52:49 !lg * 0.16-a !boring s=crace / won o=% 12:52:50 !lg cv=0.16-a lo 12:52:50 705/51692 games for * (0.16-a !boring): 1/3x Lava Orc [33.33%], 35/769x Deep Dwarf [4.55%], 19/493x Ghoul [3.85%], 25/1235x Naga [2.02%], 10/504x Halfling [1.98%], 18/923x Felid [1.95%], 29/1532x Troll [1.89%], 80/4528x Vine Stalker [1.77%], 28/1615x Hill Orc [1.73%], 28/1619x Ogre [1.73%], 18/1056x Centaur [1.70%], 48/2843x Gargoyle [1.69%], 60/3694x Minotaur [1.62%], 12/806x Demigod [1.49%], 22/... 12:52:50 No games for PleasingFungus (cv=0.16-a lo). 12:52:55 !lg * cv=0.16-a lo 12:52:56 3. Grenyer the Severer (L18 LOBe of Trog), blasted by an ice dragon (blast of cold) on D:15 (grunt_enter_depths_hoard) on 2014-09-26 01:25:43, with 226200 points after 39341 turns and 8:30:02. 12:53:02 oh, right, save upgrades 12:53:09 I always hear people talking about how hard tm is, when it's really not if you use the spells well; you can always ask for spells of better design, but power isn't the problem! 12:53:11 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:26 I certainly agree 12:53:38 true 12:53:55 gammafunk: I think the last time I heard people complaining about Tm being hard, it was because SE existed 12:54:02 heh 12:54:04 anyway those win %s are goofy so I'm ignoring them 12:54:34 I never played SE, where they an Easy Race (tm)? 12:54:57 !apt se 12:54:57 Could not understand "se" 12:54:59 rip 12:55:16 gammafunk: pretty sure that's the opposite of what elliptic was implying 12:55:26 oh, unless you mean Easy Race like DE is 12:55:50 How am I not dragging down the na rate 12:55:53 SE was the Standard Transmuter 12:56:00 despite not actually being great at it 12:56:00 PleasingFungus: the funny thing is, he could also be saying that people played SE because it was easy (and they were bad at crawl), so Tm is hard (becaue they're bad at crawl) 12:56:16 life is full of mysteries. if only we could ask the elliptic himself 12:56:20 alas; it is impossible 12:56:51 Yeah, the HE syndrome I guess 12:57:22 sort of like HESk, yes 12:57:39 I've heard that HE is supposed to be a bad race, but they always seem pretty decent to me. Am I missing something? 12:57:49 the hp apt, mainly 12:57:56 yeah, it's on the low side 12:58:20 HE is quite good at pure spellcaster backgrounds 12:58:33 it just isn't that great at the others, but people expect it to be because of the apts 12:58:38 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:56 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1060-g27e016a: Halve VS AM bite damage 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=27e016aacd24 12:59:12 ouch 12:59:12 Wow, are you going to go into hiding now? 12:59:12 isn't that excessive 12:59:15 is it 12:59:22 idk, I'm fine with buffing them some other way 12:59:26 I'd been eyeballing XL / 2 12:59:27 when this was last discussed in here, people were talking about a much smaller decrease 12:59:32 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:59:38 oh, I didn't remember numbers being tossed around 13:00:04 basically I'm not in love with vs bite damage as A Thing; I think the am + mp leech effects are the interesting part 13:00:06 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:00:10 hi dpeg! 13:00:14 PleasingFungus: Thank you! 13:00:34 ??bite 13:00:34 bite[1/1]: An {auxiliary unarmed} attack you can get if you have sharp teeth or fangs. Damage is (fang mutation level * 2) + ((strength-10) / 5, randomly rounded). If you have less than 10 str, it's just (fang mutation level * 2). For VS, it instead is fangs level * 2 + XL * 2/3 13:01:03 So that's... is that base damage 24 at xl 27 before?? 13:01:16 calling it "base damage" is somewhat misleading 13:01:35 but yeah 13:01:41 random idea from SA (not enough time to discuss, but I wanted to mention it): regeneration (amulet and spell) to only work with corpses in sight (yes, there are problems...) 13:01:49 dpeg: this has been suggested on SA before! 13:01:49 ah, well 24 damage is still pretty significant, and after nerf it should be 15 now 13:01:58 the idea is basically turning it into the DS effect 13:02:06 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but reducing the damage also reduces the AM + MP leech 13:02:11 I'm fond of the idea despite its flaws 13:02:44 dpeg: what is the motivation? 13:02:45 |amethyst: ah, I don't know exactly how that works 13:02:47 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: alle füttern] 13:02:56 <|amethyst> !source melee_attack.cc:1471 13:02:57 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l1471 13:03:22 well, easy enough to compensate for that, of course 13:03:25 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:26 If you turn "regen in PbD it gets even weirder with its thematic relation to how the good gods treat the regen spell and Ds themselves 13:03:30 except for damage_done == 0 but that's ok 13:03:36 probably 13:03:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:52 magicpoints: howso? 13:04:07 (does anyone know where book autoid-on-pickup code lives?) 13:04:32 ah, found it 13:04:33 !seen infiniplex 13:04:33 I last saw infiniplex at Tue Sep 30 22:35:42 2014 UTC (3d 19h 28m 51s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 13:04:53 I mean, is the idea just to make hells harder by nerfing regen there 13:05:07 if anything then i care much more about how much mp you regain from VS biting than how high its damage is 13:05:12 since otherwise you are just randomly making people rest longer after battles if the monsters didn't happen to leave corpses 13:05:53 the idea is to make it not an out-of-combat spell, I think 13:06:17 <|amethyst> ? 13:06:23 <|amethyst> when do you lose HP out of combat? 13:06:28 ^ 13:06:36 ........... 13:06:43 you don't cast regen during the fight 13:06:45 you cast it after 13:06:51 are you sure 13:06:53 yes? 13:06:57 that is when there are corpses 13:07:00 you can also cast it during the fight but it don't do much there 13:07:03 I don't understand what you are trying to say 13:07:05 I'm talking about 13:07:07 current regen 13:07:09 <|amethyst> oh 13:07:16 which is an out-of-combat spell 13:07:18 (which is bad) 13:07:24 well you def. cast regen during the fight (see trog's hand) 13:07:29 <|amethyst> I think PF means you only get PBD from corpses which appear while the status is up 13:07:31 the 1 HP per turn can be significant in longer fights 13:07:34 PleasingFungus: but if that is what you mean by out-of-combat, how does changing it to work with corpses present help 13:07:40 |amethyst: ohhhh 13:07:43 <|amethyst> so you have to cast it before you kill them 13:07:47 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:07:53 <|amethyst> Regen Channel 13:08:00 it's not my idea and I hadn't thought it out that far but that is an excellent answer 13:08:01 I endorse it 13:08:02 IMO PBD is a bad effect because of how it depends on corpse-dropping 13:08:10 so I don't particularly like it for that reason 13:08:16 but that makes this make more sense 13:08:36 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:50 Seems like it'd be even better as regen channel, by which I mean caring about kills not about corpses 13:09:08 sil has a vampiric effect which only takes place after you kill things 13:09:28 simmarine: so does crawl 13:09:31 it is called: makhleb 13:09:37 that is true 13:09:54 i was just reminded from sil but yes that probably fits better doesnt it 13:10:13 Lasty: mm 13:10:28 would it work on the usual set of nonliving enemies? 13:10:29 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]] 13:10:43 anyway I don't know whether I really like turning regen into a pre-combat buff 13:10:48 We could limit it to working on things that dchannel works on 13:10:56 like, those aren't really much better than post-combat 13:11:07 btw, dumps dont include the new stealth bar i think 13:11:07 yeah, it's still an "every fight" thing 13:11:47 but its also a little awkward because orb usually tanks your stealth so it would usually only be relevant for games in progress or deaths 13:12:16 elliptic: yes, it would still be a Problem Charm without further changes 13:12:22 possibly more of a problem in some ways 13:13:07 We're only talking about this change wrt to the spell, then? 13:13:11 What about the amulet 13:13:31 Casting regen toggles a status that doesn't expire and redirects all mana regen into health regen (where 1 mana regen = 2 hp). You could leave it up indefinitely if you need the hp, but you don't cast it after each fight, because you won't recover mana after the fight. Players with small mana pools will get less benefit. 13:13:32 Since I'd thought that was the original context dpeg was talking about 13:13:34 for the amulet I don't see the appeal of the change 13:13:49 I guess it would do something about post-combat swapping 13:13:57 but I don't know if that's a big concern 13:14:06 given it would also increase complexity of the effect 13:14:13 03PleasingFungus02 07[wandcost2] * 0.16-a0-1056-g405347e: Auto-ID wand type on pickup. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=405347ee24ad 13:14:16 <|amethyst> IMO all amulets should take time to activate like gourmand 13:14:23 <|amethyst> except maybe faith 13:14:27 <|amethyst> (and inacc) 13:14:33 |amethyst: and gspirit 13:14:36 <|amethyst> sure 13:14:54 |amethyst: why is amulet-swapping worse than ring-swapping? 13:14:55 well 13:14:56 here's the thing 13:15:02 if we wanted to discourage amulet swapping 13:15:21 there is a much simpler solution: make it take longer than 0.5 aut 13:15:29 (or 1 aut, depending how you count it) 13:15:35 we don't have complicated mechanics for armour resists kicking in 13:15:51 <|amethyst> elliptic: it's not inherently, but the idea would be to segregate effects 13:15:54 I personally don't think it's bad to have tactical jewellery swaps 13:16:00 <|amethyst> elliptic: things you don't want to be easy to swap go to amulets 13:16:15 or they could go to gloves or cloaks or boots or hats or body armour 13:16:18 which already do what you want them to do 13:16:19 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:21 <|amethyst> true 13:16:23 |amethyst: yeah, I'm not sure how that division would actually work though 13:16:31 cloak of regen 13:16:38 wait, that's low aut 13:16:40 btw armour of regen would still have swapping problems 13:16:41 no it's not 13:16:44 not as of 0.15 13:16:45 gammafunk: all armour is same nowadays 13:16:49 ah, dang 13:17:33 the Cute suggestion for fixing regen items is "make them only equippable at full hp" 13:17:47 of course, then they'd be useless 13:18:07 TLA's value wouldn't change 13:18:21 yeah true 13:18:29 <|amethyst> they would? 13:18:33 <|amethyst> they'd be useless as swaps 13:18:37 why would they be useless, yes 13:18:38 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:07 useless was hyperbole 13:19:09 idk 13:19:11 I'm grumpy right now 13:19:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1061-gf07c5c5: Mostly restore VS AM effectiveness (|amethyst) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f07c5c570418 13:19:22 nick change imo 13:20:24 that isn't really restoring it 13:20:27 because AC is a thing 13:20:28 their bite damage didn't actually go down by 50%, so they're now getting more antimagic than before. 13:20:39 Oh, right AC. Maybe not. 13:20:54 elliptic: "mostly" 13:21:11 it didn't go down by 50% also, I see 13:21:16 so the previous commit was lying :P 13:21:19 -!- alefury has quit [] 13:21:28 I just want to get more hate mail 13:21:31 I live for hate mail. 13:21:45 which makes your handle ironic? :D 13:21:52 no, it's extremely pleasing 13:22:27 I guess I didn't mind the damage, but always disliked giving them the am effect, since that's stealing from trog 13:22:34 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:22:44 heh 13:22:45 clearly make the bite behave like hooves :v 13:23:00 Bloaxor: doesn't work if you have a visored helmet? 13:23:01 as in, decreasing stealth? XD 13:23:18 ecks dee 13:23:26 am is so good, and is never guaranteed unless you also accept no magic or trog wrath 13:23:59 or no artificial healing and bad hp 13:24:08 Well, VS do have significant disadvantages, so it's not bad to offset them a bit 13:24:12 with ridic regen and gspirit 13:24:17 yes. 13:24:30 and mp restore for gspirit 13:24:40 that's what the race is, yes 13:24:47 yes, that's what it is 13:24:50 and does it need am 13:25:03 I don't mean the mp drain or the damage, just the am 13:25:08 well how else is it draining mp 13:25:16 IMO, anti-magic doesn't really need to be a thing for the species design to work. It would play fine without it. But I'm not against it. 13:25:16 by c++ code, probably 13:25:19 <|amethyst> same way Veh does 13:25:46 yeah it seemed I was really the only one who felt strongly about that, so 13:26:05 the kb of vs am 13:26:23 PleasingFungus: don't make fun of me! you're making fun of me! 13:26:27 elliptic: of course not. (These ideas are never motivated by conducts or extended endgame.) The idea is to avoid brainless post-combat actions. I am not sure how much of that is possible within Crawl. Like I always said, I would never design a fresh roguelike with heal-from-wait but I don't see a way to change Crawl. 13:26:30 8) 13:27:22 well you could make not waiting be less of a terrible decision 13:27:24 dpeg: I didn't understand the proposal at the time I said that (since nobody had said it should be like PbD yet) 13:27:44 Re: regen items, have them build up "regen charge" equal to the amount of damage you take while wearing them, and they lose charge when you gain hp from regeneration. 13:28:10 dpeg: actually, I was thinking of how you'd do that, and it'd probably be by having makhleb hp on kills through a skill, sif channel through a skill, and start with some kind of dd scenario with /hw 13:28:29 so you have to be wearing them when you take damage in order to have them help heal it. 13:29:05 PleasingFungus: tbh, I think the Cute proposal has appeal (you can actually allow equipping anytime, just give regen effect only after having reach maxhp once) 13:29:05 you'd probably need some kind of high cost rest option, but maybe with some good tricks not even that 13:29:52 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:30:05 dpeg: but yeah actually that's a new game, and not really dcss 13:30:43 other issues would be number of enemy encounters and map size, to name a few 13:30:49 or two 13:31:02 call it crawl lite imo 13:31:13 <|amethyst> dpeg: or give it a memory effect 13:31:24 <|amethyst> dpeg: it regens you up to the highest HP you've had with it on 13:31:36 gammafunk: there are ways to do it (Brogue can lazily rely on its food clock)... you can use consumable/god healing-only... but yeah, I wouldn't be the one to force such a change upon Crawl. 13:31:46 Too big not to fail. 13:32:31 we've already seen things that are good on paper not working out in crawl 13:32:33 |amethyst: ui is a problem for these more complex suggestions 13:32:35 (see: dj) 13:32:40 was dj good on paper? 13:32:51 a combination of hp+mp is pretty cool, yes 13:32:58 cool != a good idea 13:32:59 except goodness does it not work in crawl 13:33:55 paper here was more a very good programmer turning out some complicated code more than actual paper 13:34:05 maybe there was a design doc beforehand 13:34:14 <|amethyst> well 13:34:23 <|amethyst> I feel kind of bad about it 13:34:36 <|amethyst> it was I who pushed it to trunk, not kb 13:34:48 0.13 trunk was a good time 13:34:51 <|amethyst> (along with LO and Grotesk at about the same time) 13:34:56 oh, interesting; he wanted to test in experimental? 13:34:59 they were pushed at the same time 13:35:25 so... here's an idea that everyone will/should hate: Let's make zot undiggable. 13:35:32 |amethyst: well one out of three is better than zero out of three 13:35:47 bh: why? 13:35:49 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I don't know if I'd say grotesk made it in 13:35:52 PleasingFungus: murderholes 13:35:56 ??murderhole 13:35:56 I don't have a page labeled murderhole in my learndb. 13:35:58 OK. 13:35:59 So what? 13:36:01 <|amethyst> gammafunk: a completely different species with a similar name made it in 13:36:03 |amethyst: don't! No experimentation ==> stale, safe-guard design ==> stagnation & death 13:36:03 heh, yeah I guess even one out of three is a bit generous 13:36:07 is that more of a problem in zot than in every other part of the game? 13:36:11 insofar as it is a problem 13:36:27 it isn't a problem early game because most builds don't have the resources to employ it 13:36:30 digging in zot, well I guess it's a big thing on zot:1-4 13:36:44 but tbh I don't see it employed even remotely as much as on elf:3 13:36:48 which is the main offender there 13:36:54 yeah elf:3 is the problem area if there is one 13:37:02 the rest just sounds like an unecessary formicid nerf 13:37:03 anyway 13:37:05 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140911064110]] 13:37:08 PleasingFungus: don't think we have to do something right now, but if I spot see people systematically murder-holing Zot (or other places), I'd try to invent a nerf against it. 13:37:11 hark 13:37:11 I use digging in zot way way more than I use it in elf:3 13:37:18 !tell PleasingFungus I don't think we have to do something right now, but if I spot see people systematically murder-holing Zot (or other places), I'd try to invent a nerf against it. 13:37:19 dpeg: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 13:37:20 (I also don't go to elf:3) 13:37:24 <|amethyst> dpeg: well, I was thinking more the drama of the next year or so after that... 13:37:36 (re: move demonic rune to elf) 13:37:44 |amethyst: you got to remind me? What flavour had that year's drama? It was post MD? 13:37:47 dpeg: just make the walls of Zot turn into orbs of fire when you dig them ;) 13:37:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: which was probably exacerbated by not many devs liking Djinn, but everyone being afraid to remove it 13:37:59 yeah, it probably is very wise to use it in zot, but then again I guess it's no less wise than in depths? 13:38:01 Bloaxor: I like that. Never proposed it or anything but I'd support it. 13:38:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: I mean kilobyte's leaving, which I'm sure was not entirely due to the ostensible reason 13:38:18 |amethyst: yes, there was an effect like this. 13:38:31 it has been mostly proposed by people who do not like wandering a random infinite branch wherein the rune may or may not spawn in certain rune vaults 13:38:36 (and always spawns in some) 13:39:13 Bloaxor: my motivation is differently: I'd be happy to allow Elf as an alternative to Vaults, Slime, Abyss. 13:39:20 (just remove demonic rune, 14 runes is plenty) 13:39:42 and then we can reset CAO scores? 13:39:44 and elf basically being a little side branch that serves no purpose other than being loot is kind of weird 13:39:46 elliptic: you're against Elf rune? 13:40:08 dpeg: well, I'm against current elf 13:40:23 elf is kind of boring at the moment, yes 13:40:26 giving elf a rune would require massive changes to the branch (which might be good anyway) 13:41:33 though to be fair I haven't seen elf since the most recent changes (blade, vaults) 13:41:46 <|amethyst> I still want to know what's crashing on Elf:2 13:41:55 it is exactly the same as it has been 13:42:18 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:42:21 (except that it doesn't make you want to hang yourself as much now that item destruction is out) 13:42:24 <|amethyst> it looks like lua stack corruption but the valgrind reports don't make sense to me 13:43:03 yeah before we made elf required for all-rune, I'd also want to see a Better Elf tbh 13:43:26 part of a Better Elf would probably be making elf undiggable 13:43:32 :^) 13:46:42 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:46:42 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:46:47 !lg goodplayers recent urune=3 tm won s=god 13:46:48 64 games for goodplayers (recent urune=3 tm won): 20x Okawaru, 10x Cheibriados, 9x Makhleb, 7x Fedhas, 5x, 3x Qazlal, 3x Ashenzari, 2x Dithmenos, Gozag, Jiyva, Nemelex Xobeh, Elyvilon, Yredelemnul 13:46:52 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:47:16 !lg * recent urune=3 tm won s=god 13:47:17 87 games for * (recent urune=3 tm won): 22x Okawaru, 18x Cheibriados, 12x Makhleb, 9x Ashenzari, 9x Fedhas, 5x, 3x Qazlal, 3x Dithmenos, Yredelemnul, Nemelex Xobeh, Jiyva, Gozag, Elyvilon, Zin 13:47:25 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:50:17 Who plays Tm^Dith? 13:50:22 Seems like a terrible combo. 13:52:10 !lg * recent urune=3 tm won s=name 13:52:10 87 games for * (recent urune=3 tm won): 23x perunasaurus, 4x bmfx, 3x Tolias, 2x Tabstorm, 2x tasonir, 2x rubinko, 2x Basil, 2x MrPlanck, 2x nago, chris, tcjsavannah, joy1999, cumulogeretes, none, Lasty, johnnyzero, crate, tlatlagkaus, Valarioth, Sar, simm, HLA, Kolbur, Cadet, asdu, Zathryth, Inkie, SkaryMonk, abysmalminton, Nomi, advil, n1000, keymashgrqeeg, nabalzbhf, Roarke, coolio, Category, s... 13:52:18 good job bloax 13:52:29 !lg * recent urune=3 tm won god=Dithmenos s=name 13:52:30 3 games for * (recent urune=3 tm won god=Dithmenos): MrPlanck, Inkie, hypertraveller 13:52:54 . . . huh. 13:53:15 Lasty: why terrible? 13:54:13 -!- Jho has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:02 XP is spread thin enough that going stealth has little appeal and stabbing is a poor choice; shadow mimic is really bad w/ UC, you don't have great ways to take advantage of shadowstep . . . pretty much you get bleeding fog and shadow form, and that's just about it. 13:55:58 and shadow form overrides your main offense 13:55:59 You don't need a lot of stealth to take advantage of the stabbing, unless there's some crazy bh stabbing nerf 13:57:05 I think I'd use shadow step pretty well with just casting bh and stepping; it'd be less good compared to a conventional stabber but still effective 13:57:25 Tm doesn't generally have much in the way of disables either, which means you're using distraction-stabbing with UC, which is not very strong . . . 13:57:49 well you can get disables pretty easilly with not a lot of hexes 13:57:50 Casting BH has a decent chance to wake the target before you can shadowstep . . . 13:58:07 I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible to wrest value from it, but it seems like a lot of anti-synergy. 13:58:42 yeah that's what I'm saying, the god is still a net-positive, so people will do it 13:59:06 in the end it's like complaining about any tm that doesn't go makky or oka 13:59:08 there's +ev from the umbra 13:59:21 (invisible ev) 13:59:30 unless the enemy acc penalty was cut 13:59:41 but thar's also just about it 14:00:29 gammafunk: All I mean to say is that Dith offers some good advantages, and it seems to me that a Tm can't effectively capitalize on them as much as most backgrounds. 14:01:16 Sure, but you choose your bg at start, not dith, so in the end dith is reasonable 14:01:18 There are a lot of gods for Tm that might not be optimal but that a Tm can take advantage of to approximately the same degree as other backgrounds 14:01:19 <|amethyst> Lasty: so Tm is bad for Dith, but that's not the order in which you choose things 14:01:22 <|amethyst> what gammafunk said 14:01:48 bh stabbing? what's this about 14:01:55 Our plans for the future... 14:02:15 bh = bladehands 14:02:36 (I know) 14:02:47 well just in case! 14:03:18 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:22 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:52 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:09 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:08:33 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 14:08:57 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:09:37 -!- Taraiph has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:13:51 Anyone who's still around: what do you think about replacing the hat of the Alchemist, which is great and boring, with the hat of complete protection? 14:14:13 what does that mean 14:14:20 that boy needs therapy 14:14:46 -6 Hat of Complete Protection {rF+ rC+ MR+ rN+ rElec rPois rRot rAcid etc} 14:15:04 well almost nobody would use that 14:15:24 it'd need to be -12 or something for balance, and even as is I would never touch it 14:15:29 geekosaur: what no 14:15:45 even at -6 it is total junk compared with a +2 helmet 14:15:57 probably 14:15:58 against a +2 helmet it's already -9 AC 14:16:11 I see it as being in the same vein as the Robe of Folly 14:16:17 Perhaps -4 then? 14:16:19 in any case, resists are nice to have but rarely decide the issue; AC is much more useful 14:16:24 ??robe of folly 14:16:24 robe of folly[1/1]: A +3 robe of the Archmagi {MR-- Int+5 Curse}. Was -100 MR instead of -80 in 0.13 and older. 14:16:36 well that is something I would actually use sometimes 14:16:46 it's basically the hat of Don't You Wish You Were a Gr Like Me 14:18:02 probably it would have to be -2 or so for me to consider using it over a +2 helmet 14:18:35 It's the hat that teaches a few players not to value resists so much, helps a very small number of veteran players who have unusual armour situations, and it makes for an iconic fixedart. I see that as somewhat better than the hat of the alchemist, which is pretty much just an amazing randart. 14:18:53 If it would need to be -2 for you to consider using it, I want it to be at least -3 14:19:41 yes, teach me that resists aren't that valueable 14:19:43 at -3 and with a sane set of resists (I would not include rRot) I could see it being an improvement over current hat, yes 14:20:44 I agree that not every unrand has to be great 14:20:57 and that alchemist is boring (so are others though) 14:21:01 true 14:21:14 IMO we should strive to make every unrand interesting, whether or not they're good per se 14:21:21 sure 14:21:40 <|amethyst> FR: pruneform 14:21:56 After you push it, I'll start my branch pruneformreform 14:21:59 -3 hat {rF+ rC+ MR+ rN+ rElec rPois rCorr}, say 14:22:09 Yeah, that sounds about right 14:22:39 5 ac vs a hat, 7 vs a helmet, ouch 14:22:42 change its tile to the jester hat 14:22:52 rchandra: 6 vs helmet unless you trained armour skill up 14:23:01 always 22 armour! 14:23:07 I could see including rRot and rMut just to cover every rFoo on the % screen, but since they don't really matter I'm fine with leaving them off 14:23:23 oh man 14:23:27 of course it should have rMut 14:23:41 think of all the mut-paranoid loonies 14:23:47 they'll definitely put it on 14:23:50 well, I've said before that I don't think rRot should be on the % screen - it isn't really similar to the other resists and there are very limited ways to get it or lose it during a game 14:24:11 That's fair -- I'm more than happy to see it removed from % 14:24:18 and then we'll just add rMut :p 14:24:21 :D 14:24:24 makes room for more new meters like stealth/wiz 14:24:31 rMut though sounds fine to me - then it would actually see serious use though :P 14:24:42 -4 and rMut? :D 14:25:16 Gourmand also seems like an odd status to have on the % screen, speaking of maybe removing things from that display 14:25:17 let's see, at -4 it is giving rN+ rPois rCorr rMut AC-7 compared with current alchemisthat 14:25:37 current alchemist is +2, so -6 AC 14:25:45 oh, really? I thought it was 3, did that change? 14:25:48 ??dirty hat 14:25:49 hat of the alchemist[1/2]: +2 unrandart hat with rF+ rC+ MR+ rElec. 14:26:00 I've got a character wearing it right now 14:26:01 or am I thinking of that other hat 14:26:05 been +2 as far as I remember 14:26:08 the better hat is +3 14:26:11 ??hat of pondering 14:26:11 hat of pondering[1/2]: +3 hat with {ponderousness}, MR+, +5 int and +10 MP. Sometimes Gastronok is wearing it! 14:26:14 s/better/worse/ :P 14:26:30 very good hat if you can actually put the int+5 or mp+10 to use 14:26:40 anyway sure, -4 or even -5 with all of those things seems fine to me 14:26:40 otherwise it's only good if you are desperate for MR 14:26:48 (and great if you're with chei anyhow) 14:27:02 just make it -4 for sanity 14:27:10 Cool. After I get done fiddling with wanderers, I'll push it as -4 14:27:19 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:27:32 did the "just make it -4 for sanity" get through 14:27:44 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:27:47 It did, but I was already on that page :) 14:27:56 lasty: did you see bug 9004? 14:28:03 rchandra: not yet -- 14:28:07 !mantis 9004 14:28:07 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9004 14:28:20 Oh, ah 14:28:20 well it was in doubt because my 'net dropped out a second after i posted that 14:28:33 03 is also a minor Ru thing, but 04 was pretty surprising 14:28:33 My guess is that it hit the 30 tries timer, as you say 14:28:54 but I can try to reproduce it in wizmode by adding a "number of tries" counter 14:29:04 in my pre-push testing it didn't seem to be happening 14:29:07 but maybe I just got lucky 14:29:14 been seeing it a lot casually in ##crawl as people talk about their sac choices 14:29:22 oh, that's no good :( 14:29:29 <|amethyst> it would depend on how many small sacs you have taken 14:29:40 ^ 14:29:42 <|amethyst> if you took a bunch of small sacs to get there, there wouldn't be many (any?) left 14:29:52 there's an infinite number of minor sacrifices 14:29:55 there are quite a lot available 14:29:59 <|amethyst> oh, hm 14:30:03 because you can always get -2 to a statu 14:30:04 *stat 14:30:20 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:30:20 <|amethyst> is it avoiding them in this situation for some reason 14:30:22 <|amethyst> ? 14:30:34 eventually wizmode &- stops offers 14:30:41 <|amethyst> oh 14:30:53 I think because there are not three categories 14:31:02 Eventually you can't get three distinct small sacrifices, since purity has all three -stats 14:31:11 -!- Bloaxzorro has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:31:20 <|amethyst> oh 14:31:25 <|amethyst> and this one had scream already 14:31:33 awright, wanderers go on hold for a sec while I look at this 14:31:46 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:31:54 <|amethyst> maybe allow duplicate categories when you hit the 30-tries limit? 14:32:01 <|amethyst> and then 30 more tries? 14:32:32 I think I might need to set it up so that if it hits 30 tries it overrides to sac purity > random stat 14:32:48 <|amethyst> that would work :) 14:33:23 <|amethyst> hm 14:33:28 <|amethyst> what if you already have 8 of each? 14:33:32 the catch is that if it overrides more than one sacrifice, all the "sac purity" options will be the same one option, so I'll need to add a way to allow for multiple purity sacrifices to be offered at the same time . . . 14:33:46 <|amethyst> err 14:33:47 also can someone fix up the "of a sewer/labyrinth/trove/volcano/[portal]" randart names 14:33:52 <|amethyst> nm, that 8 isn't the limit 14:34:20 <|amethyst> hm 14:35:03 the "of a" part has a much worse sound than "of the" but someone apparently really didn't like it being of a specific location 14:35:15 <|amethyst> Lasty: isn't the limit for those 2 each? 14:35:47 for -stats? I thought it just gave you permanent attribute changes if you got additional ones 14:35:52 <|amethyst> oh 14:35:59 <|amethyst> I see 14:36:05 which, since Ru sacrifices are permanent anyway, are the same thing 14:36:41 maybe if it fails to get any sacrifices it should just make Ru pat you on the head and give you some piety 14:36:45 <|amethyst> hm 14:37:52 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:39:26 -!- Taraiph has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:59 In testing, it looks like with very high piety it's easy to get into a situation where 30 tries isn't enough to pick a sufficiently low-value sacrifice. 14:40:20 I suppose one way to handle that would be to increase the limit by 2 piety after every 10 failed tries 14:40:43 "cursed -5 crystal plate armour of Integrity {Str+3 Dex-2}" which one of you made this possible. I have a bone to pick, an axe to grind, and tears for you to taste. 14:40:48 <|amethyst> Lasty: hm, no 14:40:51 <|amethyst> Lasty: I get 14:40:58 <|amethyst> Lasty: Your mutations feel more permanent. 14:40:58 <|amethyst> Buggy note passed: unknown note type 14:41:13 After getting your third -stat? 14:41:17 <|amethyst> yes 14:41:20 hrrm 14:41:23 <|amethyst> third from ru, so they were all innate 14:41:26 I wonder if that's because they're innate 14:41:27 er yeah 14:41:43 <|amethyst> I don't see any code to special-case those muts going over the limit 14:41:44 I'll have to take a look at that too I guess 14:41:46 why is the monster ac bar out of 10 and the ev bar out of 8 14:41:53 well, 8 and 6 14:43:00 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 10 (move: 60%) | HD: 15 | HP: 100 | AC/EV: 1/28 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold | XP: 3705 | Sp: dimension anchor, slow, haste, mass confusion, strip resistance, 04esc:invisibility | Sz: little | Int: high. 14:43:00 %??Enchantress 14:43:03 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 650 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d16 / 8d17), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 14:43:03 %??Cerebov 14:43:10 iunno 14:46:13 rchandra: I've got an effective fix! 14:46:36 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:46:44 hurray! 14:47:44 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1062-gd6b1931: Work harder to make sure Ru doesn't offer over-valuable sacrifices (rchandra) 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 25+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d6b193103798 14:50:05 <|amethyst> err 14:50:38 yeah, ChrisOelmueller already pointed it out 14:50:49 removing mprfs 14:51:00 <|amethyst> I was going to say to dprf them 14:51:13 oh, didn't realize that was a think 14:51:15 *thing 14:51:28 They're not actually that great anyway, so I'm gonna remove them 14:51:29 <|amethyst> then it will appear in 'make debug' builds 14:51:32 <|amethyst> sure 14:52:33 heh I wanted to ask about those, but thought "that could be a debug only thing, I'll compile first and check" 14:53:36 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1063-gc62132e: Remove some testing mprf statements. 10(34 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c62132e26ddd 14:54:01 I still say there should be a way to tag those and a pre-commit hook! 14:54:09 +1 14:59:54 -!- lrvs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:00:56 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus I think @crawlcode wants to know about "plojy" in dungeon.cc 15:00:56 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 15:01:09 <3 15:01:57 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 15:04:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:13:56 Player is placed on top of a monster in Ziggurats 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9019 by MarvinPA 15:14:01 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:15 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:26:20 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1064-g3bf0c1f: Add a &^Q toggle for level-builder messages. 10(21 minutes ago, 5 files, 62+ 45-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3bf0c1f59625 15:26:20 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-1065-g6dfd42a: Put several more messages under DIAG_MONPLACE. 10(18 minutes ago, 3 files, 15+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6dfd42a6e172 15:28:01 For monsters, did new ranged change anything wrt how projectiles travel through the nonintended targets? 15:28:13 as in, are they more likely to shoot through my summons/allies now? 15:32:20 gammafunk: conceivably someone broke the monster vs monster ranged EV computation 15:32:41 as in, that is something that could happen 15:32:49 but afaik nothing intentional 15:32:54 elliptic: yeah, what I noticed is that K with blowguns are more able to hit me now, and I just ran into buff c 15:32:57 it did not go well 15:33:14 this is despite having friends in the right places 15:33:30 something I seemed to notice before when new ranged landed (the kobold thing) 15:33:38 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:51 I should take a look after I die again, I guess 15:34:06 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:36 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:28 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:43:31 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:46:58 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:36 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:48:49 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:40 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:24 !seen gammafunk 15:53:24 I last saw gammafunk at Sat Oct 4 20:33:51 2014 UTC (19m 33s ago) saying 'I should take a look after I die again, I guess' on ##crawl-dev. 15:53:31 !seen dpeg 15:53:31 I last saw dpeg at Sat Oct 4 20:53:24 2014 UTC (7s ago) saying '!seen gammafunk ' on ##crawl-dev. 15:57:02 !seen elliptic 15:57:02 Sorry elliptic, that person is dead. 15:57:16 oh no 15:57:19 rip 15:57:26 !seen rockygargoyle 15:57:26 Sorry rockygargoyle, that person is dead. 15:57:27 wow, harsh 15:57:31 I'm dead too! 15:58:28 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 16:02:14 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/acid_blob.png 16:02:19 is this trippy enough 16:02:39 -!- allbefore has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:05:13 yes 16:06:03 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:49 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/acid_blob2.png minor fixups 16:08:09 or hm 16:09:10 looks pretty good to me 16:10:36 !tell ontoclasm help help i'm tripping https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/acid_blob2.png s 16:10:37 Bloaxor: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 16:11:25 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:15:16 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:15:54 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 16:16:24 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 16:17:36 -!- AnnoyedKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:15 rainbow acid, i guess that makes the tiles acid projectile look less weird 16:19:32 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:37 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:14 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:20:43 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:21:28 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:45 -!- AnnoyedKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:23:10 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:02 well the alternative is https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/acid_blob2b.png 16:25:18 which is pretty cool too 16:25:43 needs to be lightcyan 16:25:53 acid blob (11J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 18 | HP: 78-121 | AC/EV: 1/3 | Dam: 4208(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(160), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 2419 | Sp: s.acid (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 16:25:53 %??acid blob 16:26:48 -!- doubtofbuddha has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:27:04 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/acid_blob2lolconsolecolors.png well the problem is just that it has nothing in common with cold 16:27:31 blue = cold?? 16:27:43 azure jelly (12J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 15 | HP: 65-103 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 1212(cold:15-44), 1212(cold:15-44), 12, 12 | 04eats items, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 04fire | XP: 1890 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 16:27:43 %??azure jelly 16:28:03 blue =02cold 16:28:08 also needs to be more of a J shape 16:28:43 that is not blue 16:28:45 that's cyan 16:28:50 re: acid blob 16:28:57 and it's def. not always cold 16:29:06 it doesn't have a specific meaning in console, in fact 16:29:13 aside from "dangerous crap" 16:29:45 yes i thought it could stand to be lighter 16:30:11 but im sure plenty of tiles monsters dont match the console color so i hope you arent considering it anyway 16:30:42 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 16:31:36 it hints too much towards being a cold-themed monster, so of course i am not considering it 16:31:59 MarvinPA (L27 NaEE) (Lair:2) 16:32:08 (i mean ice fiends, ice beasts, ice statues, azure jellies and white imps are all either white, cyan, blue or a mix thereof) 16:32:09 ah, that classice MarvinPA crash 16:32:23 for the nostalgia factor 16:32:43 not even omnipotence can save MarvinPA from that crash 16:33:56 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:35:02 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:28 -!- unpaidbill has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:45 greater mummy (16M) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 183-212 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 35 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 6223 | Sp: sum.demon, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.emperor scorpions / sum.demon, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead / sum.mana viper, smiting (7-17), s.torment, sum.undead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 16:36:45 %??greater mummy 16:36:56 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 16:37:27 ??glyph 16:37:27 glyph ~ glyphs[1/2]: http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs-narrow.html — Generated with the script http://s-z.org/neil/tmp/crawl-glyphs 16:37:43 MarvinPA (L27 NaEE) (Lair:2) 16:39:04 -!- johnny0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:55 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:14 -!- CacoS has quit [] 16:48:18 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:29 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50:10 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 16:50:18 -!- MIC132 has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:33 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:06 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:07 -!- Calisca2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:53:42 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:15 -!- MIC132 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:26 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:34 -!- Redz has left ##crawl-dev 16:55:46 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:01 -!- ElanMorin has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0] 16:56:52 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:03:12 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:03:41 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:23 -!- oblong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:07:30 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:10:58 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:53 -!- AnnoyedKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:32 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:09 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:18:25 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]] 17:20:34 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:39 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-1065-g6dfd42a (34) 17:23:03 -!- Taraiph has left ##crawl-dev 17:24:24 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:33:38 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 17:34:06 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 17:45:58 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:51:39 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:52:49 Buxus (L25 HEWz) (Crypt:2) 17:52:54 -!- HonestMoneyLende has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:54:21 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:09 I've never seen people do much murder-hole-ing in zot 17:55:09 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:55:12 only ever really seen it in elf:3 17:55:24 well. I've seen it occasionally elsewhere, and everywhere with fo 17:55:38 but as a thing that Everyone Does 17:57:20 Yeah it is actually pretty common in Zot, I've certainly done it and seen it done a bunch 17:57:32 But you do see it a lot on elf:3 in particular 17:58:37 It's not something that everyone does in zot; although that's also true of elf:3, I think the percentage of people who do it there is higher 17:58:51 simmarine: dispater has 40 ac (8 * 5), ereshkigal has 30 ev (6 * 5) 17:58:51 but 17:58:52 more importantly 17:58:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:58:59 it makes the display look nicer when monsters are asleep 17:59:06 Like some other (ab)uses, we only have to react if we think it's (a) too cheap or (b) becoming too wide spread. (Remember the old earth elemental abuse... when heteroy popularised it, we had to react quickly.) 17:59:11 (+++...) is the same size as ++...... 17:59:14 in fixedwidth 17:59:28 er, (+++)... 18:00:23 !lm PurpleRed 18:00:24 10258. [2014-07-27 10:21:43] PurpleRed the Cleaver (L11 CeBe of Trog) left the Lair of Beasts on turn 3721. (Lair:1) 18:00:32 If he comes back, we should nerf whatever he does 18:01:13 (: 18:01:21 !seen heteroy 18:01:21 I last saw heteroy at Sat Feb 1 08:51:16 2014 UTC (35w 14h 10m 5s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]'. 18:01:28 Bloaxor: rainbowacid is rad 18:01:34 thx 18:01:44 !crashlog buxus 18:01:44 1. Buxus, XL25 HEWz, T:125322 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Buxus/crash-Buxus-20141004-225248.txt 18:01:58 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:02:00 oo, that's mine 18:02:21 ...probably 18:03:02 !source monster::base_armour_class 18:03:02 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD#l3393 18:03:41 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:03:56 only obvious place for a segfault is get_monster_data(base_monster)->AC 18:06:10 -!- Mazed has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:28 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:42 -!- Kramell has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08:00 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 18:08:43 ??crawlcode 18:08:43 I don't have a page labeled crawlcode in my learndb. 18:09:17 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:09:29 ?/crawlcode 18:09:30 Matching entries (2): badcode[2]: https://twitter.com/crawlcode | goodcode[11]: https://twitter.com/crawlcode 18:09:36 mm 18:10:03 |amethyst: that's literally the best twitter account ever 18:10:47 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:54 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 18:11:07 -!- AnnoyedKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:44 -!- lgft has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:12:50 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:14:10 An encompass vault for Tartarus 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9020 by infiniplex 18:15:33 PleasingFungus: ghosts can exceed those values though! 18:15:45 pfft 18:15:47 ghosts 18:16:26 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that crash is a chimera zombie 18:17:02 ah 18:17:06 right now I'm adding better asserts 18:17:21 <|amethyst> the crash is on ghost->ac 18:17:27 oh 18:17:30 wait, what 18:17:32 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:18:05 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: mon->props[ZOMBIE_BASE_EV_KEY] = mon->base_evasion() 18:18:15 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the base monster is a ghost_demon 18:18:25 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but doesn't actually have that structure 18:18:30 <|amethyst> let me get you a full backtrace 18:18:35 ok. 18:18:55 we should change ghosts so they can walk through walls. 18:19:40 hi, bh. 18:19:47 hey PF 18:19:47 infiniplex won't stop... so impressive 18:19:58 dpeg: hrm? tavern or what? 18:20:01 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Buxus/crash-Buxus-20141004-225248.gdb.txt 18:20:59 oh neat, new tartarus end? 18:21:13 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: this is already "fixed" in the sense that chimera zombies were prevented one revision later 18:21:19 glosham (L7 VSFi) ASSERT(in_diamond_int(r->start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 166 failed. (D:5) 18:21:41 oh that's uh...that's out there 18:21:57 The short form is that the walls decay with time and there are miasma clouds. 18:22:06 that's the *short form* 18:22:10 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 18:22:11 2. The whole map decays with time, but decay is much faster near the player. 18:22:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but animating ugly things is probably still a problem 18:22:25 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: (they have no-gen-derived but are still animatable) 18:22:32 I swear I tested that 18:22:34 let me check 18:22:54 yeah it works fine 18:22:57 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: possibly it's a chimera-specific bug then 18:23:05 possibly 18:23:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if their ghost_demon structure is allocated at a different time 18:23:21 yeah I know uglythings have their own ghost_demon init func 18:23:23 that the others don't 18:23:24 -!- infiniplex has joined ##crawl-dev 18:23:27 so that might be related 18:23:29 hi infiniplex! 18:23:31 <|amethyst> if that's the case, M_NO_ZOMBIE solved it 18:23:34 we were just talking about you 18:23:42 <|amethyst> err 18:23:44 <|amethyst> Z_NOZOMBIE 18:24:00 infiniplex: what's a hypervault? 18:24:38 a vault in the hyperdungeon 18:24:48 <|amethyst> ??hyperrogue 18:24:48 I don't have a page labeled hyperrogue in my learndb. 18:24:52 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:04 bh: hypervaults is the current map generator in Vaults (by mumra) 18:25:04 infiniplex: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:25:09 !messages 18:25:10 (1/1) bh said (22h 57m 34s ago): What on earth is a hypervault? 18:25:31 It's not a kind of des vault 18:25:46 infiniplex: ah, not something I know about 18:25:50 <|amethyst> FR: rename encompass to "maxivault" 18:26:35 ew 18:26:48 bh: You were suggesting taking everything out of LUA into C++ a while ago and that seemed a major problem. 18:27:10 amythyst: please don't 18:27:10 infiniplex: thank god my laziness exceeds my ambition 18:27:14 infiniplex: We tend not to have many decaying over time features like your tartarus map, but I should see how this plays 18:27:36 infiniplex: also, I talked with hangedman, and we kind of agreed that your elf:3 end would be ok at lower weight 18:27:42 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: on y dort] 18:28:09 gammafunk: great, do it! :) 18:28:18 which one? 18:28:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:28:47 there's an ossuary vault with a pressure plate that drops the walls. I think it should be removed/changed 18:28:50 yeah the elf:3 is on my todo, but I'll get to it when these harpies stop attacking me in my apartment 18:28:54 I had three things to change for that (bigger corridors, more random, I forget). Anything other ideas? 18:29:06 infiniplex: I think you fixed the one corridor, yes? 18:29:24 Not yet 18:29:36 hangedman's complaint is that it kidn of just overwhelms the level; i.e. the end vaults tend to be fairly large but not overwhelming in ends when they aren't encompass 18:29:42 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:44 and with the castle it goes into "overwhelming" 18:29:54 this is kind of a subjective thing I guess 18:30:05 but it is really big with the vault and the castle 18:30:06 3rd fix was lower weight. How about 15? 18:30:35 oh, is this weighting relative to ...what is it relative to? 18:31:04 other layouts, total around 100 I think 18:31:30 ah, so chance would be 15/100 ? 18:31:45 about 15/115, but yes 18:32:10 that's high, but not as high as some layouts 18:32:18 yeah that's a good chance 18:33:00 he was saying like 1/5 or 1/6 so so even 20/120 or 25/125 would be fine 18:33:04 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:33:06 just depending on how much you love it 18:34:00 I guess I should be not lazy and make that change when you've updated the des files 18:34:04 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:17 I am fine with whatever. I normally like best whatever I just finished so don't trust my likes. 18:34:37 well we can try 20 for 1/6 and see how it goes 18:35:18 Lower is probably better. 18:35:30 ok, 15/115 if you like :) 18:35:42 (if that's what you meant) 18:35:50 Yes 18:35:58 THoughts on overwhelmingness 18:36:02 ? 18:37:37 I guess in an ideal layout generation, the geo-elf nodules would be more integrated into the castle 18:38:21 you basically have a moat separating them, but if you could put them kind of along the backside and have paths that maybe go through the open area on the outward side of the moat 18:38:56 it's still pretty cool even as it is 18:39:11 so you don't have to "fix" it, and we can just make it a nice, rare encounter 18:39:19 but if you wanted it to be pretty common 18:40:34 but yeah I'm not sure; another approach is to not use these end vaults, since they're not quite designed for the moat 18:40:35 I can't move the rooms closer without causing weird problems when they overlap stuff. Sorry. 18:40:49 they were designed to be the only other thing besides the normal level 18:41:13 It doesn't have to be common. I just multiplied the typical weight by 3 becuase it was a layout on 1/3 of the branch. 18:41:34 Thinking of it as more of a vulat means a lower weight makes sense. 18:41:38 ok, then if we keep the weight at that level, I think it's probably fine 18:42:02 you have limited space within the wall area to make better rooms, so I'm not sure if you can improve that much 18:42:37 I don't think so. They have to allow vaults with weird shapes to place on them 18:42:48 and not cause problems 18:43:03 I didn't look, but is the wall structure you made rock or stone? 18:43:16 the castle is all stone 18:43:35 ah, yeah players will find that more difficult then so low weight is good :) 18:43:55 I can change it, the stone was just flavor 18:45:05 I think it should probably stay as stone for now 18:45:31 players have lots of doors and things to break LOS to work with 18:45:52 OK. I am glad you know all this stuff. 18:45:55 if there's a revolt, we can switch to rock, but then the structure becomes less interesting, since you can just break it 18:46:08 PleasingFungus: hear that? I know a lot of stuff! 18:46:29 Well it's my opinion, and others might look at changing things, but as always thanks for the great work 18:46:47 gammafunk: no you don't 18:46:55 b-but he said... 18:47:04 rip 18:47:18 He knows a lot more than me 18:47:36 !gamesby infiniplex 18:47:36 No games for infiniplex. 18:47:41 offline games? 18:48:09 -!- Nicholas has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:48:15 I am very bad at playing Crawl. I reached Spider:4 once 18:48:25 haha 18:49:04 It's ok we have good programmers on the team who don't win a lot 18:49:15 So I don't know what is balanced, which is why I always am trying to get people to tell me. And you do, so thanks 18:49:25 np 18:50:41 So the new version will be my next project. 18:50:52 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:00 bh: Was there some other reason you were looking for me? 18:52:04 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:18 I guess not 18:55:23 -!- infiniplex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:55:24 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:55:46 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:48 -!- wasisluv has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:59:30 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:03:02 -!- MIC132 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:28 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 19:06:03 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:24 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:05 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:17:30 -!- nicholas982 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:19:21 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:24:08 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:48 -!- Cerebov has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:02 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:26:06 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/spiderbag.png hey remember that time i made a shitty placeholder tile 19:26:06 Bloaxor: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 19:26:17 -!- st_ has quit [] 19:27:15 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 19:27:29 -!- Cerebov has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:55 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:35:25 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan 19:35:25 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 19:35:41 I really don't understand how ghost demon attack flavours work. or why mon_info.cc:724 doesn't fetch them. (it seems to fetch an attack of flavour AF_PLAIN instead, even when the ghost attacks with e.g. AF_CHAOS.) 19:35:59 even for slot 0, the ghost slot 19:36:45 naga (03N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 5 | HP: 17-39 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 303(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 162 | Sp: spit poison (d10) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:36:45 %??naga 19:36:49 salamander (04N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 8 | HP: 42-81 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 1704(fire:8-15) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(40), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 524 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:36:49 %??salamander 19:37:10 anaconda (15S) | Spd: 18 | HD: 11 | HP: 43-78 | AC/EV: 4/16 | Dam: 603(constrict), 20 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 925 | Sz: Large | Int: reptile. 19:37:10 %??anaconda 19:37:34 -!- AGinsberg is now known as AGinsberg-0x71 19:42:53 -!- Taraiph has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:36 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:48:47 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 19:49:06 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:36 i do lots of digging in zot, but just to make skipping most of the level easier 19:49:47 heh 19:49:53 not really what was being discussed 19:50:37 yeah, i'm not sure murderholing is really that common 19:50:41 i wouldn't mind making all of elf:3 stone though 19:50:59 since i had a lot more fun when i wasn't digging (such as on my sac evo dude) than when i was 19:52:08 !tell |amethyst is there a specific reason you made restart_after_save its own option? i would have incorporated it into _after_game, then maybe split them if players complained too much :) 19:52:08 wheals: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 19:53:56 <|amethyst> wheals: because 1. I figured one game at a time is probably common 2. boss mode 19:54:44 ok, i guess it's really fine 19:55:00 * wheals feasts on the corpses of removed options, though 19:55:21 mmmm 19:55:24 * |amethyst banishes wheals back to GNOME 19:55:28 you just want your millimarvins, admit it. 19:55:42 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1061-g2282bb4: Devouring fixes (Lasty) 10(65 seconds ago, 1 file, 24+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2282bb4bbf1e 19:56:27 PleasingFungus: what do you mean no unhealthy food 19:56:36 poisonous chunks are perfectly fine for hydra bellies 19:57:02 of course 19:57:06 haha, you resolved yermak's bug report 19:57:20 showed him and his spriggans up real good 19:57:25 Your're devouring fixes? Seems a bad idea 19:57:27 but mutagnic and necrotic chunks aren't 19:58:59 still no idea what's going on with the wide variance in head count lasty was getting 19:59:04 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: when you said ghost demon mon-info attack flavours weren't working, what kind of ghost demons were you talking about 19:59:13 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: ? because ugly things seem to work 19:59:15 |amethyst: specifically player ghosts 19:59:24 oh, one think I was thinking when messing around with hform is that 19:59:32 it's kind of a weird "gourmand 19:59:36 how did that change klowns? 19:59:37 I was trying to add their attack flavors to their descriptions, and then I failed to figure out why it didn't already work 19:59:54 wheals: mons_species( 19:59:59 I think we don't let dform become engourged for similar reasons 20:00:00 klowns, bizarrely, are weightless 20:00:05 huh 20:00:11 i have seen them leave human corpses 20:00:15 ew, HCl 20:00:16 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, they don't have an attack flavour 20:00:19 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: they have a brand 20:00:21 gammafunk: lasty et al talked me into it 20:00:26 |amethyst: augh 20:00:35 i thought ghost demons have both 20:00:37 ok, that also explains why pan lords work that way (though I'd class that as intended) 20:00:38 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: since the two don't really match up 20:00:42 yeah 20:00:49 <|amethyst> wheals: they do, but player ones don't have a flavour 20:00:49 okay. 20:00:50 ah, right 20:00:54 well, I'll maybe poke at it more later. 20:01:02 fr: don't split up AF_, SPWPN_, and STAFF_ 20:01:04 Well it's just I'll use hform against yaks 20:01:05 it'd be nice to not have to mess around with !lg for ak ghosts. 20:01:10 just so I can become engorged 20:01:53 <|amethyst> wheals: I don't know, probably monsters with flaming swords shouldn't work exactly the same as monsters with flaming melee 20:01:58 gammafunk: what kind of character do you see doing this, for whom it's problematic? 20:02:06 true 20:02:18 i mean code-wise more than gameplay-wise though 20:02:40 not berserkers, surely, so you'd either have heavy casters sinking a large investment into tmut & uc to be able to eat yaks, or... healers? 20:02:52 well tm do strugle with food to an extent since they tend to have lower spellcasting and are casting these high hunger spells 20:02:55 I guess this is pretty strong for uc healers 20:02:59 i mean, i'm fairly sure the "no staff damage message if it kills a monster" bug has been around literally since UCC, and flavours/brands don't have the bug 20:03:19 berserkers casting spells? 20:03:24 yes, exactly 20:03:35 no I think it's just tm that will do it 20:03:35 food is not a problem for healers by the time they can use an l6 spell 20:03:37 but they will do it 20:03:45 I mean there's no reason not to, right? 20:03:46 im(limited)e 20:03:58 they will use hydra form, yes 20:04:06 when they don't need to 20:04:09 <|amethyst> wheals: yeah; IIRC part of the reason for the different timings of the different things has to do with whether they require base damage or not 20:04:14 mm 20:04:22 true 20:04:31 my problem with not gourmanding is that I don't want it to be a 'trap' in terms of wasting chunks 20:04:36 chunks/corpses 20:04:48 staff certainly should be able to stuff with no damage, since the base melee is so crappy 20:04:49 and if it gobbled up corpses when you were below engorged, that would feel... wrong 20:04:59 and AF_s doing so would be a fairly bug AC nerf 20:05:04 er, if it gobbled up corpses but didn't give you nutrition for them 20:05:05 big, rather 20:05:22 the *sane* thing to do would be to make it not devour enemies, probably 20:05:22 i mean, i'm fairly sure the "no staff damage message if it kills a monster" bug has been around literally since UCC, and flavours/brands don't have the bug 20:05:25 !log . won urune=15 20:05:26 1. wheals, XL27 DrTm, T:121725: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/wheals/morgue-wheals-20140918-163543.txt 20:05:27 no way!!!! 20:05:36 wheals: I think this isn't true, I remember fixing that bug once :P 20:05:55 idk. maybe I'll just make it not fill you up past standard gourmandy limits 20:06:10 that will be Food Wasteful but such is the curse of the hydra 20:06:15 well, the fact that it's still around regardless just proves my point more!! 20:06:26 gourmandy limits is engorged, unless you mean something else 20:06:29 wheals: yes 20:06:39 no I mean past the limits provided by whatever level of gourmand mut/etc you have 20:06:48 PleasingFungus: I think I was mistaken about devouring klowns, btw. In retrospect, it was probably just that I didn't manage to kill one, and didn't realize at the time that you have to kill something to devour it. 20:06:52 PleasingFungus: interesting. looks like Hell has not been showing up in G and ctrl-o for a while actually 20:06:55 Lasty: no, you were right 20:06:56 well yeah, you do get a free kill after all 20:06:57 I tested 20:06:59 oh, ah 20:07:00 klowns were inedible 20:07:00 <|amethyst> I should diagram out the melee_attack and ranged_attack state machines 20:07:05 probably since my DNGN_ order stuff 20:07:06 maybe just leave it and see who complains Very Loudly 20:07:11 <|amethyst> I probably won't but someone should 20:07:15 I will just complain at the usual levels 20:07:26 gammafunk: it doesn't actually kill enemies that wouldn't have died otherwise :) 20:07:28 it triggers on death 20:07:32 that would be so great, the fact that it essentially has tons of global variables makes it quite hard to read 20:07:36 ah, ok 20:07:55 well you also get hp from those, right? 20:07:57 the devourings 20:07:59 yes 20:08:06 %git a6f61f745a1eeaf092dd09d4b32e9f58c4c3a87a 20:08:06 07wheals02 * 0.16-a0-406-ga6f61f7: Make a bunch of switches on DNGN_ enums use feat_is_ functions instead. 10(6 weeks ago, 7 files, 42+ 212-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a6f61f745a1e 20:08:10 that was what broke it 20:08:16 fr: makky lets you summon hydra for the thematic connection 20:08:21 of course, that date is misleading 20:08:24 or we make a demon hydra 20:08:25 what thematic connection? 20:08:26 that works too 20:08:32 hp on kills! 20:08:34 o 20:08:36 haha 20:08:48 fr: monster hydras eat you on kill 20:08:52 lol 20:08:54 <|amethyst> and consuming corpses! 20:09:17 lerny at least should do that 20:09:21 I mean come on 20:09:46 hm, I kind of wish I hadn't rebased away my old code for incorporating gourmand 20:10:14 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: reflog 20:10:29 yeah that can be a life-saver 20:10:38 I'm using s-z instead :) 20:10:44 %git 437f8349be3a 20:10:45 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1032-g437f834: DEVOUR THY FOES 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 64+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=437f8349be3a 20:10:48 it was this version 20:11:15 hrm, but you should have that ref as well? 20:11:34 huh, the commit still exists even though it's on no branch now? 20:11:38 yep 20:11:43 cool! 20:11:47 until it's garbage collected, probably? 20:11:50 <|amethyst> yeah, it will time out eventually when a gc is run 20:11:51 gammafunk: yeah but I was looking through crawl-dev logs to find it 20:11:55 <|amethyst> but there is a time limit too 20:11:55 ah ok 20:12:08 <|amethyst> (it won't gc away one day later for example) 20:12:09 wheals: yeah reflog like |amethyst to revive those missing commits, unless they get gc 20:12:21 yeah, i just didn't expect gitweb to still have them too 20:12:25 so if you remove a branch, the commits don't just poof, but they will go eventually 20:12:43 i knew about reflog, i've used it occasionally when i mess up a rebase 20:12:44 oh yeah, I think it just looks at the refs like any git command would 20:13:02 <|amethyst> hm 20:13:34 <|amethyst> maybe I should turn on --no-prune for my gcs 20:13:45 <|amethyst> it's not like disk space is finite 20:13:48 --no-glaive 20:14:12 --no-glasses 20:14:17 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-1066-g29c2251: Show Hell on ctrl-o and G (legoman727). 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29c225173186 20:14:48 fun fact: the mad god who made glaive of prune is linus torvalds 20:15:34 ...he should stick to operating systems and scm 20:16:18 <|amethyst> FR: "of project management" as a randart name 20:17:13 a - The +8 glaive is Not Unix {speed rPois} 20:18:31 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:13 man, that would be perfect glaive for HESu <3 20:25:58 03PleasingFungus02 07[hydraform] * 0.16-a0-1062-gf056303: Vaguely respect chunk-eating limits with hydraform 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f05630373645 20:25:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1067-g97254e4: Remove MHP boost from wizmode super-heal 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=97254e4a4999 20:28:09 wow, amazing wanderer start: +2 quarterstaff, blowgun, poison needles, potion of curing 20:28:19 too bad that's just in testing :p 20:33:40 -!- HonestMoneyLende has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:36:56 thank you re mhp boost 20:37:01 that was always annoying to me 20:37:05 yeah same 20:37:11 I only just realized that I could, you know 20:37:13 fixit 20:37:27 wiz mode seemed off limits to you? 20:37:37 you're not confident enough to be a wizard? 20:37:39 well, it first annoyed me before I was even a dev 20:37:46 which set my mental mode 20:43:22 -!- Redz has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:47:13 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:50:22 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:51:23 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1068-ga59e595: Quiet an unused variable warning 10(4 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a59e5956c86e 20:54:54 -!- ChrisOelmueller has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:56:57 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/agnes.png no it's not a half-genie from sequin land i swear 20:56:58 Bloaxor: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 20:57:02 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 20:57:17 !tell ontoclasm (i have no idea how to bring her face out :c) 20:57:17 Bloaxor: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 20:57:18 haha, wtf, there actually are separate "transparent rock wall" and "transparent stone wall" sprites 20:57:22 they're just nearly identical 20:57:44 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:58:57 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:03 !tell Grunt did you give iron dragon metal splinter breath MON_SPELL_NO_FLAGS intentionally? 20:59:04 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 21:00:32 bloax I'm not so sure about that sprite 21:00:38 it doesn't remotely resemble any of the other spriggans 21:03:23 remotely resemble? it resembles the previous agnes 21:03:45 purple hair treatment, how anime 21:04:03 this is to curry favor with ontoclasm for sure 21:05:04 PleasingFungus: i got this 21:05:11 ! 21:05:17 if you actually solve the transparent wall problem 21:05:19 gammafunk: it's actually a reference to something 21:05:21 which has annoyed me for literally years 21:05:29 then... I don't even know 21:05:33 see: "it's not a half-genie from sequin land i swear" 21:05:34 to something? 21:05:51 I'll have PleasingFungus google it and find out 21:06:14 but it's a pretty nice looking tile 21:06:40 you will? 21:06:51 PleasingFungus: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/transparent_stone.png 21:07:12 now it should be more obviously different 21:07:22 well my main beef with the agnes sprite is that it's disproportionate to the other spriggans (although I'm nots sure if the other spriggan tiles are slated for updates) 21:07:27 not so much the purple hair and other stuff 21:07:38 Bloaxor: it's blue now? 21:07:39 -!- Isabel has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:44 deep blue 21:07:45 compare agnes to spriggan air mage or berserker, for example 21:08:04 I would kind of prefer if transparent rock looked anything like rock, given that you will rarely have the two transparent materials side-by-side to compare 21:08:05 with some extra diagonal shines 21:08:06 and transparent stone - aside from its color - is differntly shaped 21:08:15 -!- HerpesHarvester has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:08:19 Brannock_: I don't like the current spriggan tiles. 21:08:24 they are old and flat and ewwww 21:08:26 I think they're lacking, yes 21:08:41 But I don't see how you deviate from the ratios presented in the current spriggan tiles 21:08:47 without making sp look like elves 21:08:53 I'm just starting with Agnes because she's a qt3.14. 21:09:07 if we're complaining about racial tiles, then tengu are in sore need of update... 21:09:08 It took me way longer than it should have to figure out how to properly interact with _get_weighted_spells(). 21:10:00 monster.cc: In member function ‘void monster::load_ghost_spells()’: 21:10:00 monster.cc:5080:56: warning: format ‘%d’ expects argument of type ‘int’, but argument 4 has type ‘mon_spell_slot’ [-Wformat] 21:10:03 tsk tsk Grunt 21:10:37 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:11:54 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140913030206]] 21:15:03 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:17:10 wheals: rip 21:17:10 Grunt: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 21:17:10 wheals: and no, that no spell flags is unintentional :( 21:17:16 ok, i've fixed it 21:17:23 during adding MON_SPELL_BREATH 21:17:36 o_O? 21:17:37 ah 21:17:41 I get what you're doing :) 21:17:48 Better than what I had in mind.... 21:18:01 still has dirty hacks around for dracs, of course 21:18:09 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:25 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 32.0.3/20140923175406]] 21:18:52 imo rip those 21:18:58 :( 21:19:04 (well we'll see what your code looks like first) 21:19:17 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:19:24 oh one thing I was considering was what to do with (greater) naga mages so that they can get their poison spit :) 21:19:49 I had two ideas: 1) remove teleself; or 2) extend the number of spell slots somehow 21:20:09 speaking of, i took the (now-trivial) liberty of giving plain ones breath timers 21:20:10 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:26 <|amethyst> Grunt: expand the number of spell slots obviously 21:20:40 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-1069-g333fec7: Change wanderer starting gifts 10(7 hours ago, 3 files, 96+ 112-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=333fec7a0338 21:20:44 <|amethyst> (to "arbitrary") 21:20:46 |amethyst: re that, I was thinking of how to -- yes 21:20:50 :) 21:22:02 also, since the flags are a bitfield, we can add a recite-user now!!! 21:22:13 <3 21:22:39 (if we get arbitrary spell slots, imo give Lom as many enchantments as possible and the ability to re-cast the ones that are M_ flags) 21:23:10 oh i remember talking about that wanderer spellbook change a long time ago 21:23:19 thats cool that it got implemented 21:23:26 drke: yeah, actually, weren't you one of the people who suggested it? 21:23:32 it was me and uh 21:23:34 I should have given you credit 21:23:35 blakmane 21:23:39 was the other guy 21:23:40 sorry :( 21:23:42 lol 21:23:42 its ok 21:26:47 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:17 When PF made ring of vitality into amulet of vitality, did he replace all existing rings of vitality with amulets of vitality, or are the old rings grandfathered in? 21:30:32 imo 21:30:39 ring of vitality should be a ring of vitality 21:31:00 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:14 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 21:34:04 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:16 I'm just not sure how artifact enums work . . . 21:34:34 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/transparent_stone2.png 21:36:10 So, I had a strange idea. 21:36:29 I've seen a few players simulacrum-storm Gloorx Vloq to death (it's super effective). 21:36:33 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 21:36:43 Gloorx is a necromancer type... 21:36:49 What would happen if he could Control Undead? 21:37:11 (... it's a really niche case but the thought amuses me) 21:37:12 where are the corpses even coming from? 21:37:18 well for so few would it matter, and then, hrm 21:37:26 kiku 21:37:27 and i think id rather have him control useless stuff if kiku is giving me the corpses than tormenting or slowing me 21:37:28 simmarine: in most cases it's been Kiku followers 21:37:39 simmarine: but I've seen people lure demonspawn over and use those 21:37:53 (also what happens if the *player* is undead) 21:37:56 the problem is that allies in general just destroy gloorx 21:38:00 Gloorx Vloq's will overpowers you! You are confused. 21:38:15 you'd kind of have to just give him some summons 21:38:16 theres already holy wrath 21:38:24 When monsters cast Enslave on you, you get confused. 21:38:40 nice 21:38:44 damn, Grunt's too fast for me 21:38:45 I guess for simulacra that's no help, but 21:38:46 Lasty: precisely :) 21:38:54 Grunt: maybe you shouldn't have gotten fixup_spells to be called on everything 21:39:00 on load 21:39:08 wheals: what 21:39:09 wheals: rip 21:39:13 !lm recent uniq=gloorx_vloq 21:39:13 No milestones for recent (uniq=gloorx_vloq). 21:39:18 !lm recent uniq=~gloorx 21:39:19 No milestones for recent (uniq=~gloorx). 21:39:20 !lm * recent uniq=gloorx_vloq 21:39:21 1372. [2014-10-05 00:30:02] Aarujn the Farming Slayer (L27 FeTm of Sif Muna) killed Gloorx Vloq on turn 230208. (Pan) 21:39:23 !lm * recent uniq=~gloorx 21:39:24 1372. [2014-10-05 00:30:02] Aarujn the Farming Slayer (L27 FeTm of Sif Muna) killed Gloorx Vloq on turn 230208. (Pan) 21:39:27 !lm * recent uniq=~gloorx s=god 21:39:27 1372 milestones for * (recent uniq=~gloorx): 443x The Shining One, 166x Vehumet, 120x Zin, 116x Cheibriados, 100x Makhleb, 76x Ashenzari, 49x Okawaru, 48x Sif Muna, 44x Trog, 38x Dithmenos, 35x Qazlal, 25x Kikubaaqudgha, 21x Xom, 16x Jiyva, 13x, 13x Beogh, 12x Ru, 11x Lugonu, 7x Fedhas, 7x Gozag, 6x Nemelex Xobeh, 3x Elyvilon, 2x Yredelemnul, Iashol 21:39:32 I mean 21:39:32 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:39:32 i only noticed this since i'm implementing a viewer in wizmode for the freqs 21:39:38 kiku isn't exactly topping the list here 21:39:39 yeah haunt also destroys gloorx 21:39:43 and, for example, lom has 15 on all of them 21:39:47 mmm haunting Gloorx 21:39:49 but only after you save/reload 21:39:55 i wonder what the lowest level summon spell is that you can use to destroy gloorx is 21:40:01 shadow c 21:40:04 would probably work 21:40:07 not ice beast? 21:40:10 no 21:40:14 cap of 3 21:40:15 cerebov is too strong for it 21:40:19 wheals: is this in a game started on the branch? 21:40:19 but gloorx perhaps 21:40:25 wheals: fixup is only supposed to happen on old games 21:40:27 well you mean uncapped? 21:40:29 wheals: maybe I got my tag code wrong :( 21:40:35 theoretically we can go there i guess 21:40:37 since 3 ice beasts won't be enough 21:40:42 yeah if you look at it, there's no check for minor tag 21:40:42 what does shadow c get you usually in pan 21:40:44 even if you feed them in 21:40:45 demonspawns? 21:40:48 sure 21:40:48 ??famous last words[ice beast 21:40:49 famous_last_words[15/27]: summon ice beast is so damn good i'll kill cerebov with it to prove that Elynae the Summoner (L11 HuSu), worshipper of Ashenzari, killed by miscasting Summon Ice Beast on Lair:1, with 7605 points after 18288 turns and 1:21:04. 21:40:50 it's good there 21:40:53 I used it a bunch 21:40:55 t-1 demons 21:41:02 on gloorxs level would it give you execs? 21:41:02 yeah 21:41:02 i'm fixing it 21:41:04 since it just spawns shadow demons 21:41:06 i mean soul eaters 21:41:07 and execs 21:41:07 it changes the spawn list 21:41:15 yeah that would likely kill him 21:41:25 yeah just get a couple shadow demons 21:41:29 and they'll shadow spam 21:41:57 also for some reason when i << an ostringstream the uint8t it interprets it as a char or something 21:42:07 apparently theTower has some ideas for mnoleg better than my tentacle thing 21:42:12 which probbaly isn't doing much 21:42:19 !lg * ikiller=mnoleg 21:42:19 44. Laraso the Bringer of Law (L27 MiFi of Zin), mangled by an eldritch tentacle (called by Mnoleg) in Pandemonium (mnoleg) on 2014-09-15 11:14:59, with 764862 points after 111193 turns and 6:20:04. 21:42:21 idk the tentacles did a good bit of damage to me 21:42:22 nope 21:42:27 last time i didnt fight him 21:42:32 yeah but they play poorly with his summons 21:42:38 there's a fix I need to make but 21:42:40 should play well with summon eyes 21:42:46 assuming player doesnt hvae stasis 21:42:50 one thing might be to make the tentacles faster than him 21:42:56 Mnoleg (09&) | Spd: 13 | HD: 17 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/25 | Dam: 3509(mutation), 2306(blink self) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 10665 | Sp: sum.eyeballs, spawn tentacles, sum.horrible things | Sz: Large | Int: high. 21:42:56 %??mnoleg 21:43:03 speed 16 or even 20 21:43:10 unknown monster: "mnoleg’s tentacle" 21:43:10 %??mnoleg’s tentacle 21:43:16 unknown monster: "mnoleg tentacle" 21:43:16 %??mnoleg tentacle 21:43:20 gammafunk: starspawn tentacles are speed 18, but that's done in a very strange and hacky fashion 21:43:25 unknown monster: "mnolegs_tentacle" 21:43:25 %??mnolegs_tentacle 21:43:26 Mnoleg's tentacle (12w) | Spd: 13 (07stationary) | HD: 16 | HP: 99-140 | AC/EV: 13/0 | Dam: 3012(klown), 4012(klown) | 05demonic, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 10elec++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 0 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 21:43:26 %??mnoleg's tentacle 21:43:41 starspawn tentacle (11w) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 22 | HP: 15-29 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 303(constrict) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 21:43:41 %??starspawn tentacle 21:43:46 drke: mnoleg disdains your fancyquotes 21:43:49 (it's actually elsewhere in the code) 21:44:05 Grunt: I wanted to make them push like you said, but the pushing can only do so one tile, because of how tentacles work 21:44:11 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1016-g3fec937: Injury Mirror is a god ability. 10(72 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3fec9371e6e9 21:44:11 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1017-ga7ef73a: Fix an mprf. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7ef73a4e854 21:44:11 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1018-gb9ef305: Add MON_SPELL_BREATH. 10(17 minutes ago, 3 files, 33+ 55-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b9ef30542bc9 21:44:11 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1019-gdfd0663: Don't call fixup_spells() on everything on every reload. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dfd0663419ae 21:44:11 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1020-g04e925b: Display some useful info about spell slots on wizmode xv. 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=04e925babb3e 21:44:14 DrMo greatsword 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9021 by glasswalker 21:44:14 -!- zero_one has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:44:15 i kept looking back and forth trying to figure out what was different 21:44:51 Grunt: Yeah, I'll maybe try upping the speed and see if I can do what can be done with the shoving 21:45:07 i mean i think the damage they do is decent 21:45:10 im not sure why no one has died to him 21:45:23 well, players are...invincible in extended 21:45:42 yeah, but people still die, and this is a really simple way to die 21:45:44 get para’d by eye 21:45:48 then hentai’d 21:45:56 wheals: thanks for fixing my tag code :( 21:46:06 !rc daniel 21:46:07 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/daniel.rc 21:46:13 as opposed to getting killed by someone who doesnt have a way to disable you 21:46:23 !locateall daniel 21:46:23 Failed to locate daniel. 21:46:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:46:35 * wheals breathes flames at Grunt. wheals blinks! wheals blinks! 21:46:39 alas, not online 21:46:46 !glaciate wheals 21:46:46 Grunt gestures. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs wheals! 21:46:53 * Grunt gestures. 5 ball lightnings come into view. 21:46:53 * wheals is frozen! 21:46:57 * Grunt blinks! Grunt blinks! 21:47:00 * Grunt gestures. Grunt is healed! 21:47:22 Grunt starts to cast a spell, but is stunned by wheals's aura. 21:47:36 wheals redirects Grunt's spell! 21:47:40 !glaciate Grunt 21:47:40 Grunt gestures. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs Grunt! 21:47:42 * Grunt seems unharmed. 21:47:48 ??ru reasons[2 21:47:48 ru reasons[2/3]: Renewable healing for a Deep Dwarf. 21:47:51 ??ru reasons[3 21:47:51 ru reasons[3/3]: _Cerebov is paralyzed in retribution by your aura! 21:47:52 * gammafunk summons dragons, yawns 21:47:58 !glaciate gammafunk 21:47:58 Grunt gestures. Grunt conjures a mighty blast of ice! The great icy blast engulfs gammafunk! 21:48:10 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:48:13 he's never hit me with it as a summoner 21:49:01 he certainly makes a big ruckus every time I see him, though 21:51:37 // Has the 'spellcaster' flag (may not actually have any spells). 21:51:37 bool can_use_spells() const; 21:52:46 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:52:59 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:57 !firestorm 22:04:08 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:20 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:06:24 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:12:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:28:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 22:29:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:20 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:36:40 Lasty_: Existing rings of vitality became amulets, but weren't de-equipped. This causes crash bugs and was probably a mistake. 22:37:33 also their name didn't change since unrand names are saved & loaded (everything else about them is regenerated from scratch each time) 22:37:43 so they're amulets called rings that crash if you take them off 22:38:12 I did explicitly test vitring but I didn't test it well enough! 22:38:21 -!- titanjones has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:38:49 gammafunk: I strongly suspect 9021 is yours 22:38:57 !bug 9021 22:38:58 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=9021 22:39:16 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:39:17 well I can't see his rc 22:39:29 I mean let me make a dr and see if I can wield a great sword I guess 22:39:58 but yeah, I saw that and was a bit suspicious, it seems he's not online 22:40:25 I also have an offline tiles bug that I suspect is related to your changes 22:41:01 all weapons appear in the center of my character, rather than in their hand 22:41:09 this occurs even if I don't have an rcfile 22:41:25 probably the offsets of the tile are weird, in that only one is present 22:41:33 like there's a shield offset only 22:41:38 er 22:41:40 so what happens is that it gets used as the weapon offset 22:41:46 (I mean in mcache) 22:42:03 due to weirdness with mcache interface (it's terrible) 22:42:05 this occurs for every race I've tried 22:42:19 again, no rcfile, just default behavior 22:42:22 well, that clearly doesn't happen 22:42:33 I mean it's not happening in trunk or right now? 22:42:38 offline tiles 22:42:39 s/?/./ 22:42:54 offline tiles work differently from webtiles, obv 22:43:06 well yes they do, but I doubt this is really happening 22:43:25 !source mon-cast.cc 22:43:25 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc;hb=HEAD 22:43:26 I had to write code for both, and tested both, but let check 22:43:35 I am testing local webtiles now 22:44:30 yeah, works fine in webtiles, as expected 22:45:30 ugh 22:45:53 uh oh 22:46:02 I can't build tiles? 22:46:06 that's my fault 22:46:08 %git 22:46:08 07Lasty02 * 0.16-a0-1069-g333fec7: Change wanderer starting gifts 10(8 hours ago, 3 files, 96+ 112-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=333fec7a0338 22:46:11 uh 22:46:23 is it package.cc? 22:46:27 yes 22:46:28 -!- AnnoyedKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:39 %git a59e5956c86ee64d09ade7f3db5edba3c7839b27 22:46:39 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.16-a0-1068-ga59e595: Quiet an unused variable warning 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 2+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a59e5956c86e 22:46:43 this was in error, sort of 22:46:55 it's unused in FULLDEBUG=Y TILES=Y but not in TILES=Y 22:46:58 which is kind of weird 22:48:17 yeah i remember looking into that when doy set up the travis thing 22:48:25 this is why you should make debug!!!! 22:48:38 ? 22:48:43 he does make debug 22:48:56 or you mean debug-lite? 22:49:00 oh, so it's used in FULLDEBUG=Y but not debug? 22:49:00 hm this effort is actually going pretty well on my part 22:49:03 that's kind of weird 22:49:09 wheals: sorry in advance if I generate more bad code here that you need to clean up :( 22:49:13 wheals: it's used in not-debug but unused in FULLDEBUG 22:49:15 make debug is fulldebug iirc 22:49:16 idk about DEBUG 22:49:18 (I'm making mon-spell-slots allow variable length spell lists) 22:49:21 PleasingFungus: oh 22:49:23 debug-lite is what I use 22:49:23 misread 22:49:31 yeah your version makes more sense than the actual thing 22:50:01 mm segfault on start 22:50:04 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:05 promising start to debugging this on my own 22:50:05 Grunt: i just made a fairly big change (removed M_SPELLCASTER) so i hope my change doesn't conflict too badly with yours 22:50:08 ugh 22:50:09 PleasingFungus: maybe ping me when you've pushed a fix? 22:50:18 yeah working on it 22:50:27 huh, seems to work on first try 22:50:31 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:50:37 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:40 hooray for git 22:50:46 !cheers git 22:50:46 * Sequell slides a cask of saké across the bar to git, courtesy of gammafunk. 22:50:58 a cask? 22:51:03 like, git would have to open it? 22:51:18 hope it doesn't require a crowbar or something 22:51:43 ok, fixed non-debug compilation. let's see... 22:51:44 it's possible that I didn't test the latest change in tiles with no tile seting and missed something 22:51:56 but looking at the code I don't see anything 22:52:09 and weapons bein in the center doesn't make much sense 22:52:28 -!- AnnoyedKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:52:30 'temp' is a pretty silly name for a class member variable anyway 22:52:32 screenshots and verbose platform information! 22:52:43 tmp, technically :) 22:52:50 oh, that's fine 22:52:55 wheals: the missing e gives you the extra info 22:54:43 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-1070-g1dfd631: Fix non-debug compliation 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 13+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1dfd631e3b58 22:54:45 interesting, xv says "Sigmund, the killer bee." 22:54:45 gammafunk: ping 22:55:34 I am maybe 70% sure that DO_FSYNC is ever defined 22:55:51 I mean, after that last commit 22:55:53 hm 22:56:09 thought of a way to test 22:56:43 okay, good. 23:00:07 yeah my drac displays weapon/shield properly with a vanilla rc 23:00:09 and tiles 23:00:16 hm 23:00:21 well, I don't know what else I could change 23:00:39 somehow platform-specific? 23:00:47 where do they show up, just like dead-center of tile? 23:01:11 and you're using the default doll, no rc stuff? 23:01:38 absolutely no rc stuff 23:01:54 just copied settings/init.txt to ~/.crawlrc to be sure 23:01:56 also http://i.imgur.com/CdbM6pL.png 23:02:11 lemme see where shields go 23:02:12 hero stance 23:02:26 yeah, try wield weapon + shield 23:02:28 that's a really stiff one 23:02:29 and shield alone 23:03:04 http://i.imgur.com/FZ3L7Ol.png shield looks about right 23:03:17 same with or without the weapon 23:03:26 what looks like is that an offset is being used 23:03:27 the shield position is, that is 23:03:33 the dolls use 0,0 23:03:39 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1021-g458d3f6: Remove M{F,}_SPELLCASTER. 10(7 minutes ago, 16 files, 286+ 325-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=458d3f625dc1 23:03:41 so they don't normally need mcache 23:03:42 Grunt: big commit incoming 23:03:45 efb 23:03:48 ha 23:04:14 looks like you have about a 6,0 offset, maybe 5,0 or only 4,0 23:04:23 the y-axis looks fine 23:04:25 just the x 23:04:35 ya 23:05:11 just curious... which platform is working fine and which one is seeing the unexpected offsets? 23:05:37 offsets are os x, though idk that it's actually a platform thing 23:05:41 -!- Stumpsv has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:02 offsets are os x? 23:06:34 the unexpected offsets are appearing in os x, 23:07:53 can you try 23:08:03 tile_player_tile = tile:human 23:08:20 which would tell it to use the bare human doll 23:08:30 Grunt: i think the checks in 2899 of mon-cast.cc are redundant with the stuff starting at line 2921, correct? 23:08:46 worse than redundant, in fact 23:08:53 gammafunk: that makes it work 23:09:02 weapons/shield in right place? 23:09:04 yes 23:09:08 yeah, those are 0,0 23:09:15 so somehow you're getting this 5,0 offset 23:09:22 but for weapon only 23:09:29 you are just....weird 23:09:43 if anyone else reports this bug, you have to actually fix it 23:09:48 I wonder what mcache is... 23:09:59 well I can't recreate it! 23:11:05 does anyone else have os x 23:11:08 oh wait, I do 23:11:17 hah 23:11:22 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: hm... I'd have just used #else UNUSED(tmp) :P 23:11:28 oh 23:11:32 probably would take a while to get a build going 23:11:35 I forgot that existed 23:11:49 I have OS X but am not in a position to do builds etc. at the moment, sigh 23:11:51 !cdefine UNUSED 23:11:52 Couldn't find UNUSED in the Crawl source tree 23:11:56 what 23:12:03 <|amethyst> !function UNUSED 23:12:03 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/monster.cc;hb=HEAD#l449 23:12:06 <|amethyst> err 23:12:14 <|amethyst> !source AppHdr.h:419 23:12:14 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/AppHdr.h;hb=HEAD#l419 23:12:34 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:57 that is...well it's C++ 23:13:34 would be hard for that to be more c++ 23:13:54 theTower: hello! 23:14:00 if you'd like more specifics on the mnoleg thing it'd require a bit further explanation since it's adapting something for something else, gammafunk 23:14:10 PleasingFungus: are these problems happening with a build after a make [dist]clean? 23:14:32 <|amethyst> and is it new saves or old ones? 23:14:35 reasonable question 23:14:44 making clean now 23:15:10 oh also I think I am probably gonna merge hydra form into trunk tomorrow. last big question is "which books" 23:15:26 since I have it in envenomations right now but have a hard time justifying that 23:15:37 ??envenomations 23:15:37 I don't have a page labeled envenomations in my learndb. 23:15:43 ??book_of_envenomations 23:15:43 book of envenomations[1/1]: Spider Form, Poison Weapon, Olgreb's Toxic Radiance, Poisonous Cloud 23:15:43 finally 23:15:50 transfigurations isn't so sad 23:15:57 yeah transfig seems pretty obvious 23:15:59 ??book of transfigurations 23:15:59 book of transfigurations[1/1]: Stoneskin, Ice Form, Statue Form, Dragon Form 23:16:02 yes of course 23:16:03 <|amethyst> party tricks 23:16:04 but I want it in two books 23:16:06 haha 23:16:12 hrm 23:16:18 ??book_of_beasts 23:16:18 book of beasts[1/1]: Summon Butterflies, Call Canine Familiar, Summon Ice Beast, Monstrous Menagerie, Summon Mana Viper, Summon Hydra. Prior to 0.14 it has Ice Form and Sticks to Snakes instead of Menagerie and Mana Viper. 23:16:23 no that's full up 23:16:24 like most non-ultra-niche spells 23:16:35 can we count a hydra as a dragon for 23:16:38 ??book of the dragon 23:16:38 book of the dragon[1/1]: Flight, Cause Fear, Bolt of Fire, Dragon Form, Dragon's Call 23:16:40 could replace sputterflies in there 23:16:49 ??book_of_power 23:16:49 since that tends to show up in a lot of books and also it's not really a beast 23:16:49 book of power[1/1]: Iskenderun's Mystic Blast, Venom Bolt, Bolt of Magma, Fulminant Prism, Iron Shot, Orb of Destruction 23:16:49 <|amethyst> could move summon hydra out of book of beasts 23:17:04 well beasts is a full summoning book really 23:17:07 or every spell has summons 23:17:10 yeah 23:17:12 <|amethyst> oh, it is now 23:17:17 and power is full conj 23:17:19 obviously need to give it back ice form and sticks 23:17:22 <|amethyst> wasn't there some book that was a mix of tmut and sum 23:17:28 theTower: I vaguely considered it but I really really like dragon's theme 23:17:33 which is very strong right now 23:17:37 fair enough. 23:17:49 ??book 23:17:49 (as opposed to dragon form :P) 23:17:50 book[1/2]: It's a spellbook, tome of destruction, or manual. 23:17:52 ??book[2 23:17:53 book[2/2]: in his time, alexander pope accused intellectuals of buying books just to have them and show them off he suggested that they just buy little pieces of wood and have the covers painted onto them because it would be cheaper everyone hated alexander pope and he died bitter and alone 23:17:54 <|amethyst> Could make a new book :) 23:17:55 ??book of beasts 23:17:56 book of beasts[1/1]: Summon Butterflies, Call Canine Familiar, Summon Ice Beast, Monstrous Menagerie, Summon Mana Viper, Summon Hydra. Prior to 0.14 it has Ice Form and Sticks to Snakes instead of Menagerie and Mana Viper. 23:18:00 book of hydras 23:18:07 btw the problem still occurs in a clean build with a fresh character 23:18:28 maybe book of beasts could get hydra/ice form instead of sputterflies and ccf 23:18:54 03wheals02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1022-ga44beb3: Remove a redundant-looking block of code. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a44beb339d4a 23:18:58 i liked the way it cut across spell schools 23:19:05 !source book-data.h 23:19:05 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/book-data.h;hb=HEAD 23:19:24 I kind of like it as a mid-level summoning book, but I'm not devoted to it I suppose 23:19:27 hm 23:19:32 what if envenomations also got s2s 23:19:43 isn't that what "book of summoning" is for 23:19:54 also sputt and ccf aren't really mid-level 23:20:03 true 23:20:04 -!- HonestMoneyLende has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:20:17 <|amethyst> S2S in envenomations is kind of interesting 23:20:30 <|amethyst> no poison school, but it does overlap with intox and spider form 23:20:32 spider form / s2s / intoxicate / olgreb's / pcloud / hydra form 23:20:43 <|amethyst> what schools are hydra form? 23:20:43 that's a much healthier looking book 23:20:47 just tmut 23:20:48 just tmut 23:20:51 just tmut 23:20:58 <|amethyst> hydras aren't venomous 23:21:02 they have 23:21:04 poison 23:21:05 blood 23:21:05 their blood is!!! 23:21:07 and rpois 23:21:15 there is a poison connection. 23:21:22 the pleasingfungus grows on top of thetower 23:21:34 wait, so poison chunks means your blood is poisonous 23:21:37 Nessos (06c) | Spd: 15 | HD: 9 | HP: 72 | AC/EV: 4/8 | Dam: 16 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, archer, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 956 | Sp: blink range, haste | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 23:21:37 %??nessos 23:21:41 ????????? 23:21:42 <|amethyst> I don't know, it feels like Summon Troll in an Earth book 23:21:45 is hydraform happening 23:21:51 wheals: imho read nessos's description 23:22:00 ??racism[black 23:22:01 racism[3/16]: The grey draconian zealot mumbles some strange prayers to its god against the black draconian. 23:22:04 ha 23:22:04 ??racism[centaur 23:22:04 racism[13/16]: A black centaur warrior with a malicious look in the eyes. 23:22:09 out of date! 23:22:11 I ruined it a while ago 23:22:21 <|amethyst> but envenomations looks better than most other places 23:22:27 <|amethyst> perhaps it could have a rename? 23:22:27 but seriously this unfaithfulness to the source is Not Tolerable 23:22:44 wheals: the source? 23:22:49 pleh, can't find a single other book 23:23:04 could add a book of the swamp, but what would you put in it? 23:23:11 hm 23:23:15 sputterflies is in a single spellbook now 23:23:18 what was the centaur named then 23:23:20 really! 23:23:23 can we put it in book of dreams 23:23:27 (sorry) 23:23:37 I see two books, barring changes mentioned in this discussion 23:23:42 http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/KentaurosNessos.html 23:23:48 but you're right, that's not as many as I expected 23:23:57 could add it back to cantrips 23:24:02 ah, it's usually spells nessus i guess 23:24:07 I mean "once it was gone from beasts", if that was going to be done 23:24:11 *spelled 23:24:13 wheals: I actually changed the description to be much closer to the myth 23:24:19 what's the relation between nessus and kirke 23:24:20 though in a weird way, since nessos is kind of backwards 23:24:24 yeah but his blood was poisoned as well!! 23:24:44 welllllll. in the myth, he didn't have poison arrows, he was killed by poison arrows (and this poisoned his blood) 23:24:50 CE_POSION_FLAME 23:24:58 s/IO/OI 23:25:02 wait, no 23:25:05 in the game, he has poison (flaming) arrows, which is kind of a strange take on the mythology 23:25:08 s/SIO/OIS 23:25:16 maybe book of dreams, if you're being very creative 23:25:19 s/wheals/regexman/ 23:25:29 "no, no, they got it backwards, I _used_ those arrows" 23:25:31 gammafunk: for hydraform or sputterflies? 23:25:34 hydraform 23:25:35 <|amethyst> Wizardry? 23:25:50 i always thought that his blood was naturally poisonous 23:25:50 Wizardry is possible 23:25:51 "nessos" is closer to the original, I think the other is what happened after a trip through Latin 23:25:54 wizardry is pretty full but could work; almost anything works in wizardry 23:25:55 could make sense for wizardry but man that's full 23:26:06 but i guess it being there from the arrow makes more sense now 23:26:11 I mean I had a dream 23:26:14 where I was a hydra 23:26:20 <|amethyst> move force lance? 23:26:22 book of sexyelves 23:26:24 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:34 that is literally the only book it's in now? 23:26:35 huh 23:26:38 <|amethyst> yes 23:26:38 force lance is in one book, really 23:26:42 dang 23:26:59 right, the power upgrade to make it more functional also cut it from conjurations 23:27:04 tempting to suggest moving force lance to BOOK_NO_BOOK 23:27:17 but its use on 23:27:18 probably too hateful, tho 23:27:19 ... 23:27:23 I want to say 23:27:27 salamander mystic (08N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 10 | HP: 50-82 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 1004(fire:10-19) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(60), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 769 | Sp: mystic blast (3d15), b.magma (3d18), haste other, localized ignite poison | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:27:27 %??salamander mystic 23:27:29 would see as much use, sadly 23:27:30 no 23:27:34 hmmm 23:27:37 <|amethyst> I'd rather change the push rules change 23:27:44 naga ritualist (07N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 8 | HP: 47-75 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 14, 403(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(60), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 686 | Sp: force lance (3d12), toxic radiance, virulence | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 23:27:44 %??naga ritualist 23:27:46 yeah force lance is probably fixable, I am in fact being unfair 23:27:47 <|amethyst> maybe make it a bolt? 23:27:50 right those 23:27:55 sersiously, just shunt it in book of dreams 23:28:03 <|amethyst> but the big thing is that pushing doesn't depend on power at all 23:28:04 hydra dreams, think about it 23:28:06 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:28:07 dreams about forcing things away? 23:28:08 book of dreams is also full 23:28:10 butterflies would probably make more sense as dreams 23:28:18 fullish 23:28:18 ??book_of_dreams 23:28:18 book of dreams[1/1]: Ensorcelled Hibernation, Flight, Phase Shift, Shadow Creatures, Mass Confusion, Darkness 23:28:23 oh 23:28:23 <|amethyst> ??alchemy 23:28:23 book of alchemy[1/1]: Sublimation of Blood, Condensation Shield, Alistair's Intoxication, Petrify, Ignite Poison 23:28:37 are hydras alchem 23:28:39 y 23:28:44 well 23:28:47 fr: ouroboros form 23:28:49 does hydra have a y 23:28:50 i wonder about book of swamp: summon forest (?), leda's, hydra form, summon hydra, dragon call (???) 23:28:53 and does alchemy have a y 23:29:01 <|amethyst> wheals: that would be neat 23:29:15 that last one is a stretch 23:29:24 meph 23:29:31 meph? 23:29:32 poison cloud is the wrong schools and meph is already in three books 23:29:35 swamp drakes 23:29:35 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 23:29:38 which dragon from dragon call makes meph 23:29:42 swamp dragons... 23:29:48 I miss when meph was in like six books 23:29:49 no, dragons make pcloud 23:29:49 those aren't in dcall 23:29:49 re dcall 23:29:54 oh 23:29:56 really 23:30:00 I guess that's just as well 23:30:04 anyway the idea is a theme book, not a school book 23:30:06 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I don't think non-starting books necessarily need to have good school synergies 23:30:09 so maybe pcloud instead 23:30:11 I suppose 23:30:22 though that's in 2 23:30:26 yeah book of the swamp has some possibility I gues 23:30:30 summon swarm :P 23:30:30 but then it'll be 23:30:33 book of shoals 23:30:33 young poisoner's, minor magic * 3, air, clouds, wait that's five 23:30:35 book of slime 23:30:42 no that's six I can't count 23:30:43 theTower: wasn't it in conj 23:30:47 oh right 23:30:48 seven 23:30:49 oh wait nvm there was none 23:30:53 or maybe ther ewas 23:31:05 maybe I'm thinking of lightning bolt, which also got near that height 23:31:15 xxx is, technically, swampy 23:31:19 ooh, corpse rot! 23:31:27 but that's grand grimoire 23:31:54 corpse rot / summon forest / leda's / hydraform / summon hydra 23:32:07 ha 23:32:13 and you could toss in bolt of cold, if you were a goof 23:32:24 awaken forest 23:32:26 only in one book right now! 23:32:28 how terrible of an idea would it be to have occasional fixed randart books depicting the foo lord's spells / domains in their vaults, spinning off that premise 23:32:34 argh finally tracked down this segfault 23:32:47 !send Grunt conflicts 23:32:47 Sending conflicts to Grunt. 23:32:48 theTower: ...fixed randarts? 23:32:55 <|amethyst> vault-defined 23:32:59 vault-defined yeah 23:33:00 fixedarts, perhaps 23:33:03 ^ 23:33:19 there's an absolutely terrible current use that comes to mind... 23:33:40 and yes that could be fun; we currently have a chance of randomly naming high-level randbooks after &s but the end results are a little silly often 23:33:46 891 spells:beastly_appendage|summon_small_mammal|sticks_to_snakes|call_canine_familiar|spider_form / 23:34:00 heh 23:34:01 eh? 23:34:03 yeah 23:34:11 there's two vaults that use that 23:34:12 wow 23:34:13 two 23:34:16 wait, what 23:34:26 minor book of beasts 23:34:28 much more likely to get another book though 23:34:34 spells:beastly_appendage|sting|sticks_to_snakes|cure_poison|spider_form 23:34:44 it's book of calling changes, actually,the first one 23:34:54 introduction_to_nature, huh 23:35:08 the second is Young Changer's Handbook 23:35:10 it seems 23:35:19 viciously silly stuff, but the idea is there for something better! 23:35:38 (after all, there's those necronomicon rip-offs in crypt too) 23:35:47 !learn add book_of_the_swamp Corpse Rot, Leda's Liquefaction, Summon Forest, Hydra Form, Summon Hydra 23:35:48 book of the swamp[1/1]: Corpse Rot, Leda's Liquefaction, Summon Forest, Hydra Form, Summon Hydra 23:35:57 oh did that get settled? 23:35:59 how common is said book 23:36:12 implementer decides! 23:36:14 do non-high-level books vary in commonality? 23:36:20 I honestly have no idea how book gen works 23:36:20 ...yes. 23:36:21 yes, rather 23:36:23 by a lot. 23:36:24 huh! 23:36:31 pretty common at first 23:36:46 well you effective gave me more summons, so I won't complain 23:36:47 then reduce it if it's too common or 2gud 23:37:05 !source book_rarity 23:37:06 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/spl-book.cc;hb=HEAD#l220 23:37:20 in addition to that, all books have a 1/4 chance of turning into power or wizardry 23:37:24 <|amethyst> a spell's likelihood in randbooks depends IIRC on the rarity of the most frequent fixed book it is in 23:37:50 so higher is less common? 23:37:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:38:00 vaguely want to say it should be in either the burglary/achemy/dreams group or the dragon group 23:38:07 yeah 23:38:09 yeah, more rare 23:38:18 though that's against bloax's reasonable suggestion of making it more common at first 23:38:19 er, that was to PleasingFungus's question 23:38:39 agh, right, need to do something about destruction at some point... not right now though 23:38:50 perhaps fire/ice/sky 23:38:53 <|amethyst> yes, x_chance_in_y(rarity - 1, level + 1) chance of not picking the book 23:38:59 I wonder what the chances for any given spell are according to this list and their contents 23:39:22 if we want it to be initially common, maybe toss it with party tricks 23:39:27 I was going to do that for objstat 23:39:28 otherwise, I'd lean toward dreams 23:39:34 but it's kind of weird to represent 23:39:47 also, wheals, are you implementing this? 23:39:51 nah 23:39:54 ok 23:40:00 it's your branch ;) 23:40:02 sure 23:40:08 was just wondering, since you added the learndb entry 23:40:11 good, pleasingfungus can give it the flowery description of all the other books :P 23:40:17 I was planning on it :) 23:40:24 also, I'm a little confused about save compat and book enums 23:40:28 well, wanted to put it down 23:40:35 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: just replace war chants or stalking 23:40:41 and if it didn't get implemented, it would be a nice way to troll learndb readers! 23:40:57 ah, okay. would be nice if it was possible to add more book enums without breaking compat, but ah well 23:40:58 oh, are we allowed to do that 23:41:04 welll thennn 23:41:08 book of the bog? 23:41:14 sounds shitty 23:41:24 book of the mire 23:41:30 smelly at least 23:41:33 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I think there's even compat code for war chants that will prevent old +WC from turning into the new book 23:41:36 muskeg, clearly 23:41:38 book of the mire kills it 23:41:51 mire: a stretch of swampy or boggy ground. 23:42:03 <|amethyst> because sufficiently old WC turns into Battle 23:42:04 book of the swamp sounds like 23:42:10 a bad randart name 23:42:14 I'm vaguely fond of "book of the fen" 23:42:19 fen is an interesting word 23:42:25 sure 23:42:31 wheals: conflict resolved!!!! 23:42:33 just not book of the swamp please 23:42:35 ok 23:42:50 unless it's 23:42:53 book of a swamp 23:42:57 in which case it's hilarious 23:43:14 <|amethyst> Book of Peat 23:43:20 Book of Moss 23:43:25 -!- mong has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:43:27 I kind of like it for some reason 23:43:36 book of peat is apropos 23:43:57 matthew, mark, luke, jhon, peat 23:44:01 *john 23:44:10 peat, moss, and fen are all alright by me, though I worry about drifting far enough that the spell theme no longer makes sense to anyone but us... 23:44:16 <|amethyst> matthew, mark, like, jhonen vasquez? 23:44:21 03Grunt02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1023-g627feb3: Variable-length monster spell lists. 10(11 minutes ago, 18 files, 377+ 794-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=627feb32fcf2 23:44:21 03Grunt02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1024-gaf0b7fd: Let naga (battle)mages spit poison. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af0b7fdcf828 23:44:23 <|amethyst> s/like/luke/ 23:44:36 NAGA BATTLEMAGES 23:44:39 mm. actually gonna stick with the fen for now 23:44:43 very easy to change the name, obv 23:44:52 fens are in my awful spriggan rider desc!!! 23:44:52 Bog Book of Swamps 23:44:58 naga battlemage (13N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 15 | HP: 59-103 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 27, 703(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1816 | Sp: b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other, 04esc:teleport self | Sz: Large | Int: high. 23:44:58 %??greater naga name:naga_battlemage n_rpl 23:45:05 that's fenny 23:45:08 Mossy Bog Book of Fenny Peat Swamps 23:45:17 03Grunt02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1025-g6dabd9c: Tag monster uses of teleself with MON_SPELL_EMERGENCY. 10(55 seconds ago, 1 file, 12+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6dabd9cd072a 23:45:21 !learn mv book_of_the_swamp[1 book_of_the_fen 23:45:22 book_of_the_swamp[1] -> book of the fen[1/1]: Corpse Rot, Leda's Liquefaction, Summon Forest, Hydra Form, Summon Hydra 23:45:25 <|amethyst> Marshes, Swamps, Fens, and Bogs: How to Distinguish Them, With Illustrative Colour Plates 23:45:43 tengu battlemage (06Q) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 7 | HP: 22-41 | AC/EV: 2/17 | Dam: 10, 5, 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 331 | Sp: force lance (3d11), mystic blast (3d13), battlesphere, 04esc:blink / mephitic cloud, b.venom (3d12), battlesphere, 04esc:blink / shock (d12), b.lightning (3d14), battlesphere, 04esc:blink / throw flame (3d7), b.magma (3d15), battlesphere, 04esc:blink | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 23:45:43 %??tengu conjurer name:tengu_battlemage n_noc n_rpl col:magenta 23:45:50 <|amethyst> Sorry, How to DiÅ¿tinguiÅ¿h Them 23:45:52 can we add these to the BATTLETOWER 23:46:04 dar battlemage (12e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 40 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | XP: 15000 | Sp: b.fire (3d117), slow, mass confusion | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:46:04 %??deep elf annihilator name:dar_battlemage n_noc n_rpl hd:100 hp:40 spells:bolt_of_fire;slow;mass_confusion 23:46:04 they have imb AND battlesphere 23:46:07 wheals: we already have tengu BATTLEMAGES 23:46:09 tengu reaver (13Q) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%) | HD: 17 | HP: 66-106 | AC/EV: 2/17 | Dam: 27, 11, 11 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 2061 | Sp: b.lightning (3d22), battlesphere, freezing cloud (2d27) / b.magma (3d26), battlesphere, fireball (3d27) / b.venom (3d21), b.corrosive (3d21), battlesphere, poisonous cloud (3d11) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:46:09 %??tengu reaver 23:46:10 yeah set the book of the fen in 18th century 23:46:12 can I remotely justify adding coldbolt to fenbook 23:46:19 yeah you can 23:46:29 I mean 23:46:32 it has 5 spells though 23:46:38 but sure 23:46:40 mm. now it is a healthy book 23:46:41 pcloud, boc 23:46:44 wheals: on my list now 23:46:50 bolt of cold is only in one book right now 23:46:52 stone arrow 23:46:59 are there really gargoyles in swamp? 23:47:04 well you have 23:47:14 ISTR dar battlemages having better melee than annihilators 23:47:15 oh, druids? 23:47:16 L2, L4 (or is it 5), L5, L6, L7 23:47:18 spriggan druid (03i) | Spd: 10 (move: 60%) | HD: 11 | HP: 36-52 | AC/EV: 1/18 | Dam: 18 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(100), 03poison | XP: 729 | Sp: stone arrow (3d18), awaken forest, druid's call, 04esc:minor healing (2d5) | Sz: little | Int: high. 23:47:18 %??spriggan druid 23:47:19 i think i only met them once though 23:47:27 ??leda's 23:47:27 leda's liquefaction[1/2]: Level 4 earth/hexes spell, found in the book of the Earth. Generates a halo of "liquefied" ground around the caster. Moving on liquefied ground has a -3 player movement malus. Applies slow movement effect to monsters. Doesn't affect flying, clinging, insubstantials; cannot be cast by these. 23:47:31 ??summon forest 23:47:32 summon forest[1/1]: L5 Summ/Tloc in the book of the Warp. Temporarily turns some nearby rock walls into trees, sometimes creates a small pool of water, and summons a dryad which can cast Awaken Forest and summon vines to pull monsters into the trees. Requires open space to cast. 23:47:40 yeah ledas is 4 23:47:44 wasn't sure 23:47:50 that's because there's a dar priestess hasting them and healing them 23:47:54 I forgot druids traded away sunray 23:47:59 2,3,4,5,6,7 sounds nice 23:48:24 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5!!!!) 23:48:25 well stone arrow I guess, but he's looking to help BoC specificially 23:48:30 well 23:48:33 I was vaguely thinking about it 23:48:35 *spelling 23:48:42 but I am also on record as suggesting removal of bolt of cold 23:48:48 and it doesn't really fit the theme that strongly. 23:49:02 stone arrow feels more fen-y, I suppose 23:49:05 instead just make it an ice lance 23:49:06 and it's also only in one book now 23:49:10 !learn add brain_storm 0.16 monster spell on brain worms, orange crystal statues, Mnoleg. Smite-targeted 4-7 damage (half of smiting), mr-check at high power like sentinel's mark to do two of three divinations-miscast-esque effects: 3-11 mp drain, 3-5 int drain, confuse. If the mr check fails, still does a lessened effect: 2-3 mp drain, 1-2 int drain, 2-3 turn confusion. 23:49:10 brain storm[1/1]: 0.16 monster spell on brain worms, orange crystal statues, Mnoleg. Smite-targeted 4-7 damage (half of smiting), mr-check at high power like sentinel's mark to do two of three divinations-miscast-esque effects: 3-11 mp drain, 3-5 int drain, confuse. If the mr check fails, still does a lessened effect: 2-3 mp drain, 1-2 int drain, 2-3 turn confusion. 23:49:12 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:49:15 !send Bloaxor throw icicle 23:49:15 gammafunk: 23:49:15 Sending throw icicle to Bloaxor. 23:49:16 +// remove me when TAG_MAJOR_VERSION > 34 23:49:28 Grunt: you know, we have a way to do this if it's in C++ 23:49:32 theTower: !!!!!! 23:49:34 is this real 23:49:35 wheals: go on, try it, see where it gets you 23:49:52 pleasingfungus: it is real in the way that the fen book is currently real 23:50:08 ha 23:50:09 bog body (03n) | Spd: 10 (swim: 140%) | HD: 6 | HP: 31-48 | AC/EV: 1/9 | Dam: 25, 412(cold:6-17) | 07undead, 10doors, amphibious, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40), 05fire, 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 262 | Sp: b.cold (3d14), slow, corpse rot | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 23:50:09 %??bog body 23:50:16 always thought they had icicle, somehow 23:50:33 ;_; bog body freezing clouds meaning something ;_; 23:50:34 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus 23:50:38 <|amethyst> you must stop the presses 23:50:46 <|amethyst> I just thought of the perfect name for the book 23:50:50 -!- zero_one has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:50:51 <|amethyst> "Fen Folio" 23:50:56 ! 23:50:56 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! 23:51:07 The Fen Folio 23:51:10 it's... not an actual rarebook 23:51:11 feh 23:51:16 highlevel book 23:51:19 so I don't think I can justify using that as the name 23:51:20 but 23:51:21 fr: rename all books to get away from "book of (the) foo" 23:51:26 I can put it in the description 23:51:29 PleasingFungus: we don't have to have books be called "Book" 23:51:34 are you sure! 23:51:35 Grunt: |amethyst will :( at you for not using size_t 23:51:39 beware..... 23:51:45 <|amethyst> Young Poisoner's Handbook 23:51:48 you're only allowed to break that if it's a reference to something! 23:51:50 book of the young poisoner's hand 23:51:52 duh 23:52:09 fen folio is silly but silly is good 23:53:05 theTower: I thik that may work well for the first two, but for mnolegy I'll just wear clarity and beat him up or blow him up 23:53:29 he'll eat your mp!! 23:53:34 gammafunk: not gonna wear rmut? 23:53:36 :) 23:53:40 I'll have good mr 23:53:46 so he'll not get all that much drain in 23:53:49 but it'll be even higher power!! 23:53:51 (and channeling) 23:54:09 maybe, if you want him to be a ghost moth 23:54:27 mnoleg (06y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 30 | HP: 136-193 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 1802(drain stat), 1802(drain stat), 1204(strong poison:110-195) | fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(100), 02cold, 03poison | Chunks: 06mutagenic | XP: 13550 | Sp: mp drain gaze | Sz: Large | Int: insect. 23:54:27 %??ghost moth name:mnoleg n_rpl hd:30 23:54:27 * theTower sighs and shrugs 23:54:41 Grunt: this looks fishy: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc;h=7672e5bf394e480dcf0db255066de18d45729704;hb=627feb32fcf2#l2332 23:54:46 I mean making him a ghost moth would certainly do it 23:55:05 !learn edit brain_storm[1] s|statues.*Smite|statues. Smite| 23:55:05 brain storm[1/1]: 0.16 monster spell on brain worms, orange crystal statues. Smite-targeted 4-7 damage (half of smiting), mr-check at high power like sentinel's mark to do two of three divinations-miscast-esque effects: 3-11 mp drain, 3-5 int drain, confuse. If the mr check fails, still does a lessened effect: 2-3 mp drain, 1-2 int drain, 2-3 turn confusion. 23:55:07 wheals: worst lines of code in the entire thing :( 23:55:28 It does sound pretty solid on the first two though 23:55:34 I mean brain worms, joke amirite 23:55:43 Grunt: you do notice the break, right? 23:55:49 -!- schistosoma has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:54 wheals: doh 23:55:57 wheals: :( 23:56:12 ocs are also currently jokes =\ 23:56:33 it would be cool to have brain worms as an enemy that could be used 23:56:39 as opposed to 'worm lair' 23:56:39 (this is better than then essentially non-existing with disint) 23:57:02 yeah new ocs, I haven't seem them too much 23:57:03 <|amethyst> Grunt: is mspell_list[msidx].spells terminated by SPELL_NO_SPELL? 23:57:04 yes, they'd be a good spider enemy afterwards 23:57:06 Once I get mon-spell-slots working I was going to see if I could crank up statue spell frequency. 23:57:12 |amethyst: yes 23:57:13 (and "oh god oh god please make it stop aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" if you didn't happen to have disintegration) 23:57:15 <|amethyst> Grunt: otherwise I don't see what keeps that from going out of bounds 23:57:16 <|amethyst> Grunt: ah 23:57:17 |amethyst: I probably missed some sets... 23:57:31 can still do that for the other statues! 23:57:42 poor silver statues, no longer smiting with their demons 23:57:47 * gammafunk cranks up his disintegration wand. gammafunk disintegrates grunt! 23:57:50 gammafunk: uhh... are weapon tiles supposed to disappear while running/autoexploring? 23:57:53 * Grunt reforms as a Grunt! 23:58:14 johnny0: context? 23:58:21 aaaagh 23:58:23 !source check_item_knowledge 23:58:24 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/itemname.cc;hb=HEAD#l2415 23:58:26 (obviously to rebuff silver statues one just needs to finish revamping 4s/3s) 23:58:26 is this webtiles, with custom tile or no? 23:58:28 aaaaaaaaaaaagh 23:58:37 create a drmo after a fresh install, wizard mode it and give it a greatsword + cloak 23:58:43 !send PleasingFungus Aaaarggghhhhh! 23:58:44 Sending Aaaarggghhhhh! to PleasingFungus. 23:58:45 uh oh 23:58:47 (first order of business: can I give ice devils a starting / spell conednsation shield) 23:58:47 that bug 23:58:50 I can't recreate it 23:59:03 theTower: zeroth order of business: can they be renamed ice demons 23:59:04 Grunt: i, ii, j 23:59:18 gammafunk: sometimes the sword disappears, sometimes it does not (but it is in the right place when it is visible!) 23:59:37 03Grunt02 07[mon-spell-slots] * 0.16-a0-1026-g256c879: Unbreak monster spell display. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=256c879e7a82 23:59:39 wheals: no all uses of the word demon and devil must be removed from ranked demon names 23:59:39 wheals: actually this commit reminds me of something 23:59:43 sounds fine 23:59:44 is this webtiles or tiles? 23:59:46 !rng common rare 23:59:46 The RNG chooses: common. 23:59:53 gammafunk: local tiles, win x86 23:59:54 * wheals breaks Grunt's code!!! 23:59:58 let me try the x64 build again