00:01:48 So basically plate gives more AC but chain lets you have more EV? :p 00:02:42 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:02:54 yep 00:03:16 fr knight background that starts with a pony 00:03:36 Rod of the Pony 00:03:43 -!- Lightli_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:03:54 when wielded you move faster 00:04:04 but it's loud and Briggs 00:04:08 neighs 00:04:12 stupid autocorrect 00:04:53 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-753-g1b75789 (34) 00:07:52 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:08:32 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:00 pity it didn't autoincorrect to brays :p 00:11:03 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:20 so what is the thing that "chris" is streaming on termcast.org 00:13:54 His personal version of crawl 00:15:12 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16:40 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:16:50 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-754-gbafcc93: Don't generate a vault containing shafts on D:$ (qw). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bafcc93dc4a3 00:17:47 * geekosaur figured as much 00:18:06 but... why 00:18:25 best not to ask 00:19:39 let's just say that he's banned from this channel due to abusing the devs 00:20:32 arrogant, rude, makes me look socially competent 00:22:57 his preferred way to get patches into crawl was to come in here and insult random devs until they committed his patch to get rid of him 00:23:22 bcadren? 00:23:29 ChrisOelmuller 00:23:41 oh 00:24:10 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:19 -!- Taraiph is now known as Guest58923 00:26:33 -!- Guest58923 is now known as Taraipher 00:27:59 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:28:29 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:33 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33:07 -!- magistern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:33:47 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:06 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:26 So, we're all agreed to remove all members of the Fungus genus, then? 00:35:26 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 00:36:33 -!- ebarrett_ has quit [] 00:36:57 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:43 sounds suicidal 00:38:59 * ontoclasm reverts PleasingFungus. 00:41:05 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:44:01 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:44:48 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 00:45:54 PleasingFungus, killed by genocidal confusion 00:47:25 !tell wheals yeah, giant eyeballs & so forth probably shouldn't eat items either (assuming they do, which I... haven't seen, but I guess it's possible?) 00:47:25 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 00:52:17 -!- Taraipher is now known as TaraxDar 00:54:39 -!- TaraxDar is now known as Tarabutt 00:55:28 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:35 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:13 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:03:53 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:22 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140920030206]] 01:07:54 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:39 -!- waspmonolith has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:11:15 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:38 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:48 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:16:29 -!- Tarabutt is now known as Taraipher 01:17:17 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:15 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:30:28 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:33:52 FR: For each equip slot, remove curse first uncurses whatever item you have equipped and if the slot is empty uncurses the first item of that slot in your inventory 01:34:05 s/empty/empty or uncursed 01:34:56 so if you have a very cursed inventory and you want to uncurse it there's less tedium involved 01:35:44 Remove curses are so abundant, I'm not sure this is really necessary, and the "first cursed item of that slot" in inventory seems rather arbitrary. 01:35:58 it's not about not wasting rmcurse, that's whatever 01:36:03 it's super tedious to swap all your gear out 01:36:05 uncurse 01:36:08 swap to more gear 01:36:10 uncurse 01:36:24 swap back to your original gear 01:36:29 Why do you need to swap it, if you're willingly putting on the cursed item, chances are you dont need to (soon) remove it. 01:36:59 moose: so you don't have to ?rc in the middle of a fight 01:37:02 rather not guess I won't need to swap back and forth 01:37:11 only really matters for rods and stuff 01:37:17 safer to assume i will, and uncurse accordingly 01:37:36 mostly (only?) relevant for jewellery and weapons but still 01:37:56 I'm not buying it, but if you take that tack, you might as well just ask that rc uncurses the entire inventory, which seems rather silly. 01:38:09 why "might as well" you just ask that 01:38:16 my proposal avoids buffing rmcurse 01:38:27 all it does is reduce otherwise tedious but optimal play 01:38:54 read: if you're hurting for ?rc it means you have to tediously e.g. resort your rings 01:39:02 the "first item" thing is arbitrary, you would then need possibly to manually reorder your inventory to bring the most important item into that slot. 01:39:08 -!- tlocalhos has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:22 maybe reading rc with no cursed items should uncurse your inventory? 01:39:31 when was the last time you were hurting for ?rc ? 01:39:32 no, obviously if you want to uncurse specific items you can just equip them 01:39:46 moose: recently near the beginning of a game I kept weariding on the assumption ?rc was plentiful 01:39:50 I turned out to have just enough! 01:39:50 which you already have to do 01:40:35 having cursed items in your inventory that are of use is rare, and only really happens in the tomb, at which point you should be flush with rc scrolls. 01:40:46 Kramin also suggested: Death curses only affect equipped gear which seems reasonable to me as well and would solve the problem for the most part. 01:41:00 why does it matter if you're flush with rc 01:41:11 That's better, I'm all for mummies not cursing inventory items, i've always found that awkward. 01:41:13 if rc was infinite i would still want this change 01:41:39 in fact, mummy curses are nearly irrelevant past the early-game. 01:43:07 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:47:31 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:52:22 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:52 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:06:54 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 02:07:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:45 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:09:59 -!- kroki has quit [Client Quit] 02:18:03 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:18:12 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-754-gbafcc93 (34) 02:43:16 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:48:15 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:47 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:50:03 -!- kait_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:51:39 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:52:36 -!- hypermatt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:28 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:42 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:13:44 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:17:17 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:19:10 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 03:26:21 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:28:27 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:29:43 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:30:29 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:01 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:35:32 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:35:33 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:35:57 -!- kait_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:37:41 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 03:37:54 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:38:38 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:43:51 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:49:03 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:33 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 03:56:50 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 04:01:40 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:56 -!- Notapirate has joined ##crawl-dev 04:08:12 -!- ldierk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:11:21 !grunt any clue on android version 04:11:31 !tell grunt any clue on the android version 04:11:31 Notapirate: OK, I'll let grunt know. 04:13:09 -!- Reverie_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:35 -!- endou_ is now known as endou 04:14:15 -!- kait__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:53 -!- kait___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19:01 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:19:09 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:18 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:21:04 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 04:21:22 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 04:21:48 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:16 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:17 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:42:59 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:46:02 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Client Quit] 04:50:18 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 04:53:34 -!- kroki has quit [Client Quit] 04:55:37 -!- kait_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:38 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:39 -!- morphix0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:55:47 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 04:56:45 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:20 -!- Bollocks has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:10:06 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:28 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 05:14:00 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:17:57 -!- Philonous_ is now known as Philonous 05:32:16 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:33:04 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:35:31 -!- Notapirate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:37:01 -!- Reverie_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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Use !messages to read them. 08:27:06 !messages 08:27:06 (1/2) potatolizard said (15h 23m 13s ago): my octopode is missing a hand. even though it has never had a hand. 08:27:09 !messages 08:27:09 (1/1) potatolizard said (15h 21m 35s ago): also cat 08:27:13 well 08:27:26 some people will always have questionable opinions. there's nothing to be done about that 08:27:29 !learn add ru_to_do figure out how to adjust Sac Hand name based on actual limb 08:27:29 ru to do[10/10]: figure out how to adjust Sac Hand name based on actual limb 08:27:48 agreed 08:28:06 !learn add ru_to_do figure out how to add current piety values to sacrifice ability descriptions 08:28:07 ru to do[11/11]: figure out how to add current piety values to sacrifice ability descriptions 08:28:55 since it's a theme 'problem', about the only thing you could do is to change the theme, but i have literally never seen a better name for demigod than 'demigod'. 08:29:14 I really think demigod is a solid and reasonable name for the species 08:29:37 it's not a bad name, except that it encourages people with bad ideas :p 08:29:47 PleasingFungus: hey, I also have an idea :) 08:29:58 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:30:07 dpeg: in crawl, there is room for many ideas. 08:30:17 Well, it was only recently that people started jumping on the "demigod means magical powers all over the place" bandwagon. IIRC, before a few months ago, no one ever had a problem with the species name. 08:30:19 for demigods... you know 08:30:37 yeah I remember vaguely - something about abstract worshippers 08:30:39 Lasty_: the name is definitely alright and should stay 08:30:41 also lasty that is 08:30:42 not true 08:30:54 people have been suggesting demigod as 'holy demonspawn' for many years 08:30:56 PleasingFungus: yes. And Mumra has code, and then it stopped. :( 08:31:10 PleasingFungus: ah, okay. I guess I just hadn't seen it. 08:31:29 (My point is to change DG as little as possible, while strengthening the flavour. This can be done.) 08:31:45 it seems possible! I remember wheals was working on it 08:31:54 !seen wheals 08:31:54 I last saw wheals at Tue Sep 23 02:45:41 2014 UTC (10h 46m 12s ago) quitting, saying 'Read error: Connection reset by peer'. 08:32:00 cool, will ask him 08:32:01 but the stat thing is pretty much orthogonal to that, I think. 08:32:13 completely unrelated, yes 08:32:52 Lasty_: there have been suggestions back on the SourceForge tracker that Demigods can choose their divine parent. And so on. 08:33:18 http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2792832&group_id=143991&atid=757516 is one I was just looking at (from https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:species:demigod ) 08:33:56 anyway I'm gonna go try and see some ruins. wish me luck 08:33:57 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140922030204]] 08:34:19 so long ago... the net never forgets 08:35:20 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:29 god damn it, they closed five minutes ago and won't be open again until thursday. 08:35:31 feh. 08:36:05 16:30 is not 6:30 :( 08:36:07 the ruins will be patient 08:36:10 this is true! 08:36:48 haha 08:37:36 "give demigods four arms" 08:38:34 I was so polite back then :O 08:40:45 Today you'd slap anyone who suggested giving demigods four arms across the face. 08:40:53 absolutely! 08:41:00 four-fold haymaker 08:41:05 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:41:13 It's tough love 08:42:12 Lasty_: re Ru: a whole lot of fun. I have the feeling the god is very strong. (This is not so bad: should always start out strong and later nerf, never the other way around.) 08:42:36 Two questions: the sacrifices are randomised? The powers are fixed? 08:43:37 dpeg: I already pushed a patch enhancing two of the powers under that same theory. I have a patch queued up to scale back one of the buffed powers and buff another power slightly. Still trying to find that sweet spot. I'm glad you're having fun w/ it. :D 08:43:48 They are randomized, and the powers are fixed 08:47:10 Lasty_: did you know that there was an ancient proposal of a pact god ("constant piety", by Eronarn), back on SF? I wonder if this has informed Ru in any way. 08:52:42 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:53:19 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:54:28 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:56:11 http://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/feature-requests/1825/ 08:56:38 http://sourceforge.net/p/crawl-ref/feature-requests/1585/ 08:56:48 six years old... 08:58:07 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:00:32 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 09:01:56 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:14 dpeg: I've only seen the pact god version in the dev wiki that you sent me when I was first planning out the god 09:04:41 -!- toysrough has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:05:28 and... has it informed you? :) 09:06:45 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:06:52 Presumably a little. Honestly I don't think I ended up using any of the ideas from that proposal, but I certainly considered it. 09:09:43 I think it's more about the global approach (permanent costs for piety), rather than any details. 09:10:29 Well, there's definitely overlap there 09:11:08 though I didn't learn about the older proposals until after I'd made my initial Ru proposal. I think I had heard some discussion of ideas for contract-based evil gods in the tavern previously . . . 09:11:10 I think it is a very good idea to make the god powers deterministic (in principle, they could depend on what you sacrifice, I think). 09:11:53 Just the variable sacrifices seems to be a bit awkward interface-wise for some people. Adding in variable powers would definitely complicate things. 09:12:10 yes 09:12:48 But I am not just talking about complicated interface: I think it is easier to adapt to costs, than to adapt to rewards. You will want to know what you get out of the deal, at least in Crawl. 09:13:33 agreed 09:14:27 Btw, do some sacrifices have further prompts? The descriptions indicated this, but I never got one. This is why I forfeited sacrificing magic yesterday (I was a very pure EE) -- would I have gotten a choice about what I lose? 09:17:54 sacrificing arcana chooses a specific school, I believe. 09:18:57 Good. Should be said explicitly in a! 09:19:44 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:14 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 09:20:48 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:26:57 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:30:19 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:30:52 dpeg: when you use the ability to select a sacrifice, it tells you the full details of what you will be sacrificing and then asks whether you really want to sacrifice it 09:31:24 this was unclear to me too, and it is a bit awkward that you basically have to select each sacrifice when offered them to see what they actually are 09:31:35 but I'm not sure how to improve it either 09:33:12 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:33:56 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 09:35:11 elliptic: I did my fair share of sacrifices :) 09:35:29 I think a line in the desciptions would help: "You will be prompted before making the sacrifice." 09:36:16 that doesn't actually tell you the important thing, which is that you are told what the sacrifice will actually be at the prompt 09:36:41 true, got to improve the line 09:36:42 but yes maybe a good line in the descriptions is all that is necessary 09:37:15 it still doesn't help the awkwardness of pressing aF aG aH or whatever as your first action each time you are given sacrifices 09:37:59 I think that is okay. 09:38:14 elliptic/dpeg: I'd like to make that more clear, but it's tricky. If you have good ideas, I'd love to make use of them 09:38:19 it would be nice if the message you get about new sacrifices being offered actually told you what the sacrifices were somehow 09:38:34 We could make a Ru ^? screen that lists the sacrifice categories and a short description (should fit on one screen). 09:38:36 rather than just the categories 09:38:37 elliptic: That could be done 09:39:02 I don't know if that would make the message too long though 09:39:03 "Before any sacrifice, you will be shown details and a prompt." 09:39:25 having a single screen that you can access that shows all the details about your three sacrifice options might be better 09:39:28 -!- BanMido has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:39:47 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:39:52 "Ru believes you are ready to sacrifice. Ru offers you Sacrifice Purity: Screaming; Sacrifice Arcana: Conjurations, Necromancy, and Earth; Sacrifice a Hand" 09:40:10 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:13 -!- ark is now known as Guest18109 09:40:23 imho 'or Earth' 09:40:34 (if I understand it correctyl) 09:40:47 no, it's all three for Arcana 09:40:47 what would actually be nice is if the ability descriptions in the 'a' menu listed those details, but I know there isn't room without making stuff multi-line there 09:40:54 Arcana takes away 3 spell schools at once 09:41:51 dang 09:42:05 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:07 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:43:08 It chooses from one of {Charms, Conjurations, Translocations, Summonings}, one of {Necromancy, Transmutations, and Hexes}, and one of {Earth, Air, Fire, Ice, Poison} 09:44:09 which sacrifices have subclauses at all, apart from Arcana? 09:45:06 Lasty_: it's a really good system, btw, because we have a chance to explain it in tiny space. Thumbs up! 09:45:06 !lm * sacrifice milestone~~: s=noun 09:45:06 Purity, Health, and Essence 09:45:07 244 milestones for * (sacrifice milestone~~:): 81x essence, 75x arcana, 56x purity, 32x health 09:45:12 ^ 09:45:15 thx 09:45:56 the a screen could have "footnotes" at the very bottom: 09:46:14 Arcana: Charms, Necromancy, Earth 09:46:15 etc. 09:46:22 Health is {-3 ac; -3 EV; -10% hp}; Essence is {-10% mp, -MR, -Wiz}; Purity is {screaming, deterioration, slow healing, no device heal, -int, -dex, -str} 09:46:47 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:47:41 alternatively, make sacrifice just *one* power (not three), leading to its own full screen (there we have enough space for all details, and the prompt) 09:48:30 dpeg: that would trim down the number of abilities considerably, which would be nice, but it would mean having to activate the power to find out what options are available 09:48:54 Lasty_: we could announce that in the god message. 09:49:16 "Ru feels you are ready for another sacrifice. Choose from sacrificing Arcana, Essence or Purity." 09:49:47 (with a combination that can happen, of course :O) 09:49:54 And then you activate the Sacrifice menu, and it tells you which subselections are available? 09:50:05 I think you'd still want to put them up front in that system 09:50:48 what do you mean by "up front" here? 09:51:14 at the time the sacrifices are offered 09:52:35 could also do that ... might lead to three-line messages at times, but it doesn't occur often, so it's okay 09:57:13 -!- notapirate has joined ##crawl-dev 09:57:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:57:23 green death (032) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 53-91 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 32 | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(156), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1110 | Sp: poison arrow (3d20), poisonous cloud (3d9), b.venom (3d18) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 09:57:23 %??green death 09:58:00 centaur warrior (08c) | Spd: 15 | HD: 10 | HP: 41-70 | AC/EV: 4/8 | Dam: 16 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 922 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 09:58:00 %?? centaur warrior 09:59:10 should probably just add an 'archer but not a master archer' flag to fix the *taur nerf, idk 09:59:20 quick fixes for hard problems 09:59:23 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:05 -!- Guest18109 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:01:26 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:04:25 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:13 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:56 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:49 -!- Isabel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:10 -!- fridurmus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:56 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:48 !lg * Ru / won 10:15:48 22/429 games for * (Ru): N=22/429 (5.13%) 10:15:52 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:00 !lg * ru won s=name 10:16:00 22 games for * (ru won): 2x Basil, 2x DrKe, 2x joy1999, Sky, Mandragora, HilariousDeathArtist, bananaken, Lasty, darkli, MorganLeah, moose, NeCobalt, perunasaurus, Jase, wheals, nago, Zooty, nabalzbhf, choisan 10:16:02 !lg * okawaru / won 10:16:04 2715/153062 games for * (okawaru): N=2715/153062 (1.77%) 10:16:10 !lg * fedhas / won 10:16:11 312/11049 games for * (fedhas): N=312/11049 (2.82%) 10:16:13 oh 10:16:19 !lg * recent fedhas / won 10:16:20 86/1885 games for * (recent fedhas): N=86/1885 (4.56%) 10:16:23 there we go 10:16:25 haha 10:16:57 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:00 I'd guess Fedhas has about the best win rate -- super-powerful in early game, not appealing to new players 10:17:20 !lg * recent won s=god 10:17:20 4763 games for * (recent won): 657x Trog, 528x Okawaru, 427x Vehumet, 406x The Shining One, 347x Ashenzari, 308x Makhleb, 265x Cheibriados, 227x Qazlal, 216x Dithmenos, 214x Zin, 131x Lugonu, 115x Sif Muna, 114x Kikubaaqudgha, 114x, 113x Yredelemnul, 99x Xom, 89x Jiyva, 86x Fedhas, 75x Elyvilon, 73x Nemelex Xobeh, 72x Beogh, 65x Gozag, 22x Ru 10:17:26 er 10:17:35 !lg * recent s=god/won 10:17:38 4763/516167 games for * (recent): 657/49802x Trog [1.32%], 528/24988x Okawaru [2.11%], 427/14389x Vehumet [2.97%], 406/4857x The Shining One [8.36%], 347/7177x Ashenzari [4.83%], 308/8102x Makhleb [3.80%], 265/8189x Cheibriados [3.24%], 227/7077x Qazlal [3.21%], 216/7487x Dithmenos [2.89%], 214/1817x Zin [11.78%], 131/16266x Lugonu [0.81%], 115/8083x Sif Muna [1.42%], 114/4136x Kikubaaqudgha [2.76... 10:17:53 Wow, I was way off 10:17:56 !lg * recent goodplayer 10:17:57 No keyword 'goodplayer' 10:17:59 !lg * recent @goodplayer 10:18:00 No games for * (recent @goodplayer). 10:18:06 hmhm 10:18:11 But Zin/TSO is probably just because of lategame swaps on character that are already going to win 10:19:29 yes, would need a query on single-god winners 10:19:31 !lg goodplayers recent trog / won 10:19:35 361/5119 games for goodplayers (recent trog): N=361/5119 (7.05%) 10:19:39 !lg goodplayers recent trog / ru 10:19:42 0/5119 games for goodplayers (recent trog): N=0/5119 (0.00%) 10:19:48 !lg goodplayers recent ru / won 10:19:48 !lg * recent !boring xl>8 s=god / won o=% 10:19:51 18/117 games for goodplayers (recent ru): N=18/117 (15.38%) 10:19:53 4763/93879 games for * (recent !boring xl>8): 89/443x Jiyva [20.09%], 214/1193x Zin [17.94%], 406/3278x The Shining One [12.39%], 75/692x Elyvilon [10.84%], 113/1346x Yredelemnul [8.40%], 86/1030x Fedhas [8.35%], 347/4174x Ashenzari [8.31%], 22/291x Ru [7.56%], 131/1763x Lugonu [7.43%], 308/4977x Makhleb [6.19%], 99/1728x Xom [5.73%], 72/1263x Beogh [5.70%], 265/4893x Cheibriados [5.42%], 227/4443... 10:20:07 Lasty_: comparing ru and trog like that is pointless because trog is a starting god 10:20:11 gj Jiyva 10:20:14 elliptic: true 10:20:17 !lg goodplayers recent !boring xl>8 s=god / won o=% 10:20:20 2773/15620 games for goodplayers (recent !boring xl>8): 56/133x Jiyva [42.11%], 104/330x Zin [31.52%], 44/145x Beogh [30.34%], 165/558x The Shining One [29.57%], 79/284x Yredelemnul [27.82%], 79/287x Fedhas [27.53%], 213/836x Ashenzari [25.48%], 57/231x Elyvilon [24.68%], 132/612x Dithmenos [21.57%], 112/530x Qazlal [21.13%], 18/87x Ru [20.69%], 97/488x Lugonu [19.88%], 202/1143x Makhleb [17.67%],... 10:20:57 !lg greatplayers recent !boring xl>8 s=god / won o=% 10:20:58 1214/4069 games for greatplayers (recent !boring xl>8): 43/90x The Shining One [47.78%], 31/66x Jiyva [46.97%], 20/44x Beogh [45.45%], 111/253x Ashenzari [43.87%], 36/84x Yredelemnul [42.86%], 11/29x Ru [37.93%], 38/104x Fedhas [36.54%], 55/152x Dithmenos [36.18%], 97/274x Makhleb [35.40%], 83/240x Vehumet [34.58%], 37/107x Zin [34.58%], 47/139x Lugonu [33.81%], 54/166x Qazlal [32.53%], 118/367x O... 10:21:53 !lg greatplayers recent !boring br.enter=lair s=god / won o=% 10:21:54 Unknown field: br.enter 10:22:08 Is there a way to filter on players that have entered lair? 10:22:16 use !lm 10:22:26 !lm greatplayers recent !boring br.enter=lair s=god / won o=% 10:22:36 1195/2943 milestones for greatplayers (recent !boring br.enter=lair): 41/74x Yredelemnul [55.41%], 19/35x Beogh [54.29%], 100/187x Ashenzari [53.48%], 11/21x Ru [52.38%], 42/83x Fedhas [50.60%], 134/278x Okawaru [48.20%], 21/47x The Shining One [44.68%], 85/195x Vehumet [43.59%], 56/130x Qazlal [43.08%], 53/124x Dithmenos [42.74%], 44/104x Lugonu [42.31%], 81/192x Makhleb [42.19%], 22/55x Zin [40.... 10:23:23 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:24:27 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:48 Possible sacrifice ideas: Sacrifice Experience -- lose 2 XLs. Sacrifice Skill: reevaluate all skills as though all apts were 1 lower. 10:25:49 2 xl doesn't sound like a huge sacrifice, sac skill sounds... unpleasant 10:25:54 both good ideas in outline 10:26:42 pretty sure i've asked this before, but is there a list of current sacrifices somewhere? 10:26:45 PleasingFungus: 1 XL is back-breaking on a Felid. I figured 2 might be backbreaking for everyone. 10:26:57 Sacrifice experience: Maybe make it so your XL is your True XL-2? So you can only get to max XL 25 now? 10:26:58 ??ru sacrifices 10:26:59 ru sacrifices[1/1]: The next sacrifice is offered after you explore and/or kill enough. If you have a sacrifice still on offer, it takes longer for the next sacrifice to be offered. The more sacrifices you ignore consecutively, the longer it takes for a new sacrifice to be offered. 10:27:03 you lose like 15 hp 10:27:05 it's not so bad 10:27:08 doy: I'm not sure if there's an official one 10:27:21 before long, learndb should have 10:28:12 !learn add ru_sacrifices Sac Health, Sac Essence, Sac Purity, Sac Arcana, Sac Drink, Sac Reading, Sac Sanity, Sac Love, Sac Nimbleness, Sac Durability, Sac Artifice, Sac Stealth, Sac a Hand 10:28:12 ru sacrifices[2/2]: Sac Health, Sac Essence, Sac Purity, Sac Arcana, Sac Drink, Sac Reading, Sac Sanity, Sac Love, Sac Nimbleness, Sac Durability, Sac Artifice, Sac Stealth, Sac a Hand 10:28:52 ??sac artifice 10:28:52 I don't have a page labeled sac_artifice in my learndb. 10:28:54 need Cul de Sac 10:29:00 sac voice? or would that be too harsh 10:29:14 !learn add sac_artifice See {sacrifice_artifice}. 10:29:15 sac artifice[1/1]: See {sacrifice_artifice}. 10:29:17 Lasty_: er 10:29:20 1 xl is not back-breaking 10:29:26 repeatedly losing 1 xl is unpleasant 10:29:27 ??sac artifice 10:29:27 sac artifice[1/1]: See {sacrifice_artifice}. 10:29:46 could also sacrifice movement speed 10:29:59 no no 10:30:01 but the current list is already interesting, imo 10:30:17 Losing 1 XL on a felid is backbreaking because their entire life depends on having multiple lives. 10:30:27 and lives are based on you gaining XLs 10:30:29 * dpeg drags his torpor snail into ##crawl-dev. 10:30:30 !learn add sacrifice_artifice Sets Evocations skill to 0 and blocks use of all wands, rods, and evocables. Also blocks evocable properties of items, like the activated teleport on ring of teleportation. This is a very high-piety sacrifice. 10:30:30 sacrifice artifice[2/2]: Sets Evocations skill to 0 and blocks use of all wands, rods, and evocables. Also blocks evocable properties of items, like the activated teleport on ring of teleportation. This is a very high-piety sacrifice. 10:30:36 ??sacrifice_artifice 10:30:37 sacrifice artifice[1/2]: You can't evoke the special effects of equipment/weapons/rings. You can't evoke wands, rods and misc evokables. Lantern of shadow still works fine tho! 10:30:43 for everyone else then losing a couple of XLs isn't nearly as bad 10:30:53 I really should start checking first. 10:31:14 dpeg: Sac speed is too Chei 10:31:22 :^) 10:31:34 Don't wanna step on Chei's toes 10:31:37 if you wanted to go slow you'd already be with chei 10:31:49 if you don't want to go slow you probably don't want to go slow 10:31:57 well 10:32:08 sac 1 speed is pretty different from sac 10 speed 10:32:14 and the bonuses are pretty different 10:32:17 and you don't lose haste 10:32:26 and Ru gives you the jump 10:32:30 THE JUMP 10:32:50 !learn set sacrifice_artifice[1 Sets Evocations skill to 0. You can't evoke the special effects of equipment/weapons/rings. You can't evoke wands, rods and misc evokables. Passive magical items like Lantern of Shadows still works fine tho! This is a very high-piety sacrifice. 10:32:50 sacrifice artifice[1/2]: Sets Evocations skill to 0. You can't evoke the special effects of equipment/weapons/rings. You can't evoke wands, rods and misc evokables. Passive magical items like Lantern of Shadows still works fine tho! This is a very high-piety sacrifice. 10:32:57 !learn del sacrifice_artifice[2 10:32:57 Deleted sacrifice artifice[2/2]: Sets Evocations skill to 0 and blocks use of all wands, rods, and evocables. Also blocks evocable properties of items, like the activated teleport on ring of teleportation. This is a very high-piety sacrifice. 10:33:01 sac digestion 10:33:17 doy: and then you die of starvation :D 10:33:27 porr!dge 10:33:31 time to troll.......... 10:33:38 PleasingFungus: Fair point. Maybe Sac Speed would be interesting. 10:33:43 it is time. fast metabolism's time has come again 10:33:55 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:33:55 Be The Troll 10:34:01 It would be really nice to get sacrifices away from an ability-based structure . . . 10:34:02 -!- dpeg is now known as trollpeg 10:34:03 except for mummies and trolls I guess 10:34:03 fr trolls gobble down corpses like the gluttons they are 10:34:13 trollpeg: please don't troll. 10:34:20 Bloax: I have supported this for some time 10:34:25 ghouls too 10:34:30 You are all a bunch of lame mutherfuckers. 10:34:33 -!- trollpeg is now known as dpeg 10:34:35 dang 10:34:38 -!- Smello has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:34:38 shots fired 10:34:39 rude 10:34:42 harsh 10:35:02 they don't even regularly swear 10:35:07 what's up with that 10:35:15 Bloax: need to hang out more with them, I guess. 10:35:41 they start swearing when someone breaks something very, very badly 10:35:48 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:49 Lasty_: when you say "away from abilities", you mean code-wise? 10:35:59 sac diagonal movement 10:36:05 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:21 doy: but you couldn't have that together with You Are Hated By All, because grid bugs would love you! 10:36:32 dpeg: yeah 10:36:37 fr: grid bugs 10:36:39 <3 10:36:47 doy: they leave tron lightcycle tails 10:36:49 dpeg: I'm thinking about moving a lot of the sacrifice data into something like mutation-data.h 10:36:56 or trails. either/or 10:37:03 dpeg: and if they didn't have to be abilities, that could be way more powerful 10:38:05 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:38:16 -!- FlowRiser has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:58 !learn add unimplemented_sacrifices Sacrifice Experience (2 XL?). Sacrifice Speed (+1 move delay?). Sacrifice Skill (-1 to all apts). Sacrifice Eye (not-yet-seen monsters 4+ tiles away are described as 'a monster-shaped blur'). 10:38:59 unimplemented sacrifices[1/1]: Sacrifice Experience (2 XL?). Sacrifice Speed (+1 move delay?). Sacrifice Skill (-1 to all apts). Sacrifice Eye (not-yet-seen monsters 4+ tiles away are described as 'a monster-shaped blur'). 10:40:48 I have sacrifice eye IRL. 10:41:31 You see a lot of monster-shaped blurs? 10:42:01 yes, all the time 10:43:24 I'm sorry to hear that, but I expect you enjoy being able to jump and explode. 10:44:25 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:45:05 dpeg is a giant spore IRL 10:45:18 Lasty_: Sure I do! Not to mention Apocalypse. 10:45:36 ontoclasm: sure, but who isn't? 10:45:47 mmm 10:45:48 some people are tiny spores! 10:46:00 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:46:35 sac touch 10:46:37 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:39 Btw, what do you all think about VS? I'd like to nerf their bite a bit. It's totally nuts. 10:46:54 ??innuendo[12 10:46:54 innuendo[12/12]: You redirect the lich's attack! The lich touches itself! _The lich is destroyed! 10:47:13 that's not very apropos 10:47:20 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:47:24 anyway I think vs could survive a small nerf, yes. 10:47:30 Apropos of sac touch 10:47:37 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:48:15 ah 10:48:38 I mean, maybe the correct nerf for VS is something that should happen anyway: not tying the number of aux trigger events to the speed of your weapon 10:49:55 but how? 10:50:36 Chance to trigger is multiplied by auts / 10? 10:51:02 heh 10:51:03 er -- by attack speed auts / 10 10:51:15 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [Client Quit] 10:51:27 Statistically it works out, even if it would lead to odd clusters 10:51:38 I got you. that would probably work; I would say it's a sneaky hidden effect but so's everything about aux attacks. no one in the world would guess the way they're based on stats, if they hadn't seen the code. 10:51:48 yes 10:51:52 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:59 And hence people don't realize that str/dex on VS is nuts 10:52:47 I'd say poke elliptic and other people who might have opinions on it, since it's a moderately large change, and I can't guarantee I've thought of everything. but I think it could work. it'd be a nerf to sbl, but not to most sbl users; I think they'll survive. 10:53:17 I assume you'd set it up so that aux attacks would trigger as often as they do now on 0.7 aut attacks? 10:53:40 Sure, so attack speed auts / 7 10:54:03 (I was treating a standard turn as the base case) 10:55:29 probably best if I email crd about it, I gues 10:55:30 *guess 10:55:45 idk if it's a crd sort of design change 10:55:52 up to you 10:55:59 I guess I don't have the feel for what is and isn't yet 10:56:02 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:56:11 Could you give me more info on that subject? 10:56:29 crd feels like a place to talk about big controversial design decisions. this is middlin 10:56:36 that's just my own feeling 10:56:41 I'm sure other people (dpeg) feel otherwise 10:56:43 huh, okay 10:57:18 I thought it might be the sort of thing that a lot of people have opinions about, but maybe not. 10:57:28 this would be a beastly appendage nerf, btw 10:57:33 slight but maybe significant 10:57:34 not necessarily 10:57:43 ? 10:57:55 it's a buff to BA if you're swinging something slower than 7 aut 10:58:01 what VS is being nerfe 10:58:02 why 10:58:04 PleasingFungus: I think it's completely alright to just announce a change you wanna do 10:58:17 tabstorm: because they're nuts powerful. 10:58:18 (for me, crd is special because it's the place where I beg for code-literates) 10:58:23 HP: -3 10:58:34 "Potions and wands are ineffective at restoring your health" 10:58:43 It won't be a huge nerf. :p 10:58:53 theyre no better than minotaurs, trolls, etc. 10:58:55 tabstorm: have you ever played VS 10:58:57 yes.. 10:58:59 tabstorm: this is Crawl's nerf space. For the buff space, see ##crawl :) 10:59:13 and you never noticed their bite is ridiculous in every possible way? 10:59:14 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:20 Yes it does indeed do damage 10:59:20 Afk, lunch. I'll check in with this conversation when I get back. 10:59:39 I mean people play VSs that basically rely on their bite exclusively 10:59:42 and still kill things insanely fast 10:59:48 that just isn't right 11:00:01 uhh, like what, vs with shitblades? 11:00:05 yes 11:00:08 i can see that being sort of cheap 11:00:16 but at least shitblades are good for SOMEONE 11:00:26 point 11:00:38 maybe I should finish my greatvs with shitbladevs 11:00:40 like we have a whole weapon class existing to suck 11:00:46 saccing a hand to ru 11:00:47 except for stabbing 11:00:56 so imo its good that at least one race can abuse it 11:01:07 all but one of my VSs have used two-handed weapons 11:01:12 and the one exceptiojn had +20 slaying or so 11:01:17 not including weapon enchantment 11:01:19 Me too because i refuse to use short blades 11:02:06 at best vs is the 4th best race but i would still put them below Mi, Gr, etc. 11:02:44 Gr might just be there but I can't really rank Mi above them 11:03:30 mi has a ton more Hps and defenses 11:04:14 it's still vulnerable to poison and other crap 11:04:15 vs? you just pillar dance and regen 11:04:43 well ok on like D:2 if you are concerned about this 11:04:48 Mi auxs help a lot in this phase of the game.. 11:04:49 I am 11:05:06 i think more than the regen 11:05:13 -!- notapirate has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:05:38 you dont need to attack for it to trigger after all (or hit) 11:05:50 esp. when early game combat is like this: Miss Miss Miss Miss Miss 11:07:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:30 i like VS biting as it is due to how deterministic it is for survival purposes 11:10:59 <|amethyst> Lasty_: oh, monks of Ru don't seem to get their sacrifice until several turns later 11:11:10 it's not something that will randomly let you down through multiple checks 11:11:23 <|amethyst> Lasty_: "several" as in five or six, so it's mostly working 11:13:44 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: bbl] 11:14:31 <|amethyst> Lasty_: oh, I see, it's only when handle_god_time is called 11:17:59 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:21:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:21:43 hooray, it's god time! 11:23:22 disclaimer: no connection to demi-god 11:27:34 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 11:28:53 wheals: Hallo! 11:28:59 hi! 11:28:59 wheals: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:29:01 !lm 11:29:01 13822. [2014-09-23 16:28:19] wheals the Tortoise (L22 HuAr of Gozag) killed Fannar on turn 62972. (Elf:1) 11:29:02 !messages 11:29:02 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (10h 41m 37s ago): yeah, giant eyeballs & so forth probably shouldn't eat items either (assuming they do, which I... haven't seen, but I guess it's possible?) 11:29:08 !messages 11:29:08 (1/1) ontoclasm said (12h 18m 54s ago): remember to test doll tiles on both genders~ 11:29:13 no >:( 11:29:23 bloax: sexist, or mega sexist??? 11:29:23 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:44 3.666 gigasexists 11:38:12 -!- morphix0 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:46:21 dpeg, PleasingFungus and i pointed out that it's a bit weird that Gs (like giant orange brains) eat items if you're with jiyva -- was this particularly intentional? 11:50:02 wheals: don't know. Best to ask 78291! 11:50:49 good point, though he hasn't been around lately 11:51:10 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:51:50 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:53:49 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:01 -!- yernab has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:33 so, while I continue to ineffectively work on all three los-tracers and since there was a complaint about the lack of public discussion from my last commit batch 11:55:52 a trio of changes, one of which again questionably changes a bunch of outside mechanics and another loathsome tomb monster design: http://pastebin.com/44MWvGAk http://pastebin.com/iG7Vup5j http://pastebin.com/Muxe3ded 11:57:56 wheals: was the crashlog output actually useful from a development standpoint or do you normally just run through gdb anyway? 11:57:57 why do the arguments about miasma rot not apply to other sources of rot? 11:58:20 i mean: do you think rot has a place as a reasonable mechanic at all? 11:58:23 miasma rot doesn't even apply a rotting status to cure before it does anything (of course, this can be changed) 11:58:25 wheals: thanks for confirming those invalid_parameter_handler changes by the way 11:58:41 johnny0, it looked like it would be useful, though it seemed to have lots of junk that wasn't...i at least saw the stack trace 11:58:57 which was the real thing that would be awesome to have from windows crashes 11:59:47 (also, considering the general atmosphere and changes done before it, I'm honestly surprised rot hasn't been thrown out yet, and aside from making it a more temporary and severe status I'm not particularly inclined to it myself) 12:00:26 miasma rot is also attached to a thing that already has significant effects to it, anyway 12:00:29 wheals: yeah, some versions of gdb seem to give completely useless information from all threads 12:00:54 not sure what you mean by that 12:01:16 i don't think that removing all permanent-ish effects is a particularly good idea 12:01:46 and i'm also not much of a fan of design based on player psychological damage 12:02:24 in particular, i don't see how rot is functionally much different from frail mutation 12:02:46 different checks and much less severe status, I suppose 12:02:51 one can be removed with common items and the other can't? b: 12:03:19 temp mut fraility!... removed with common enemies, instead 12:03:58 anyway, i think making miasma clouds apply the rot status rather than rotting directly would be a positive change 12:04:11 i'm not really in favor of removing rotting entirely 12:04:51 ...also, bah, I left old ideas in that second commit: I want _all_ clouds to check half ac since they do next to no damage against lair-branch defenses and don't have item destruction to work with anymore 12:05:28 or rather, rot being "huh, rot" and frail being "shit, frail" 12:06:00 I think rotting is interesting regardless of the psycho aspect. But as far as I understand, theTower does not want to cut rot, but only rot from miasma clouds? 12:06:07 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:06:12 dpeg, yes 12:06:22 yeah, i think "immense psychological damage" is overstating the case for rot quite a bit 12:06:32 doy: well, players hate it :) 12:06:40 dpeg: players hate lots of things d: 12:07:12 dpeg: also, my question is, why is rot from miasma clouds different from rot from other sources in terms of psychological damage or whatever? 12:07:22 why only remove it from that specific place? 12:08:35 there's also the lack of ev check / melee range attached to miasma clouds compared to meleeing a necrophage / ghoul, alongside the "miasma already does strong effects" and "is instant" 12:09:09 (also, I am taking from all this that the ushabti are fine :P) 12:09:10 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 12:09:19 doy: afaiu, because miasma cloud already does important things (you could say that miasma rot is the icing on the cake you don't wanna miss :) 12:09:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-754-gbafcc93 (34) 12:09:38 theTower: seems like it! Everyone is grateful for good tomb denizens. 12:09:39 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:07 completely unrelated: someone on SA demands an unrandart, the Legitimate Sword <3 12:10:28 i just feel like the miasma cloud change makes it feel too similar to poison clouds 12:10:46 rot is basically the memorable thing about it 12:10:54 slow is pretty memorable 12:10:54 not, say, slowing? 12:11:02 though i agree with you that rot is much more thematic for it 12:11:06 lots of things slow you 12:11:09 (I suppose there are a _lot_ of slowing- 12:11:15 plah 12:11:54 also, the slowing effect doesn't really make a difference how much time you spend in the cloud 12:12:05 there is no cloud effect that slows you 12:12:07 since you'll likely be slow for the whole battle regardless 12:12:14 ...and another unrand: Claymost 12:12:20 do dr not get slowed by freezing cloud 12:12:26 rot is what makes you want to spend time trying to get out of the cloud instead of fighting 12:12:37 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12:54 that is a good point 12:13:04 but it makes you get out of the cloud due to making an interface slightly uglier rather than any substantial effect 12:13:23 it can be a substantial effect if you don't get out of it 12:13:25 ( 12:13:27 (: 12:13:30 Generally one of the most memorable points about miasma imo is that it does a lot of damage on top of the slow 12:13:58 |amethyst: yeah, handle_god_time -- that's not an issue, is it? 12:14:42 things happening only 20 times is a bit of an issue i think 12:14:52 er, one time in 20 turns 12:14:55 but that's more general 12:15:08 (the draining cloud breath arguably will also fall under this due to not doing any damage but doing light draining without rN+++, though there the line-effect and massed numbers in tomb change the context a bunch) 12:16:48 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:44 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:19 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:30:53 <|amethyst> Lasty_: I guess not; it's a little disconcerting but that's not major 12:31:48 <|amethyst> Lasty_: though checking every player turn might not be too taxing 12:31:51 araganzar (L19 GrFE) (Elf:2) 12:32:05 <|amethyst> I looked at araganzar's save 12:32:44 is it due to connectivity problems? 12:33:05 <|amethyst> no 12:33:11 phew 12:33:16 <|amethyst> it crashes when saving 12:33:26 <|amethyst> in particular, saving the stash 12:33:41 <|amethyst> I tried it out in valgrind and saw several questionable things 12:34:32 <|amethyst> there are a few places in KillMaster and StashTracker where we push a pointer to a C++ auto (local) variable onto the lua stack 12:34:59 <|amethyst> the ones in StashTracker could be modified to use clua_push_item_temp 12:35:18 |amethyst: it wouldn't be hard at all to switch it to offer the sacrifices immediately after joining, if that seems less disconcerting. 12:35:24 <|amethyst> KillMaster is a bit trickier because that's a string lightuserdata 12:35:29 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:59 <|amethyst> and lightuserdata AFAIK doesn't have a way to specify a destructor to free heap-allocated memory 12:37:27 right, light userdata is just a pointer 12:39:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:48:58 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:18 -!- theTower has left ##crawl-dev 12:54:04 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:57:00 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 12:59:15 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:03:08 !tell elliptic: what do you think about the idea of adding a [attack speed in AUT]/10 chance to trigger aux attacks on top of the existing checks? It would effectively nerf aux attacks w/ fast weapons. Alternately, PF suggested the divisor be 7, so that every swing with a 0.7 delay would trigger aux attacks, but weapons faster than that wouldn't. 13:03:09 Sorry Lasty_, I don't know who elliptic: is. 13:03:18 !tell elliptic what do you think about the idea of adding a [attack speed in AUT]/10 chance to trigger aux attacks on top of the existing checks? It would effectively nerf aux attacks w/ fast weapons. Alternately, PF suggested the divisor be 7, so that every swing with a 0.7 delay would trigger aux attacks, but weapons faster than that wouldn't. 13:03:18 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 13:03:31 !tell elliptic what do you think about the idea of adding a [attack speed in AUT]/10 chance to trigger aux attacks on top of the existing checks? It would effectively nerf aux attacks w/ fast weapons. Alternately, PF suggested the divisor be 7, so that every swing with a 0.7 delay would trigger aux attacks. 13:03:31 Lasty_: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 13:04:45 !tell elliptic the motivation is to prevent VS (for example) play from being "attack as fast as possible to stack aux attacks". Alternately, could just nerf VS bite damage. 13:04:46 Lasty_: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 13:06:45 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:33 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:40 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:47 Lasty_: if we do that, I'd prefer that slow weapons not be penalized as well 13:09:47 elliptic: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 13:10:15 (relative to fast weapons) 13:10:54 elliptic: in that schema, slow weapons would always pass the additional check 13:10:55 Lasty_: i.e. as you just stated it there would be a special breakpoint at 10 aut (or 7) 13:11:11 Lasty_: yes, so they would be penalized relative to faster weapons (just as they currently are) 13:11:21 I'm saying this isn't good 13:11:22 elliptic: ah, I see what you mean. 13:11:55 basically I would take some of the other checks and multiply them by aut/10 or aut/7 or some such 13:12:03 Hmm. How about, for every 10 aut, you get one standard aux chance, plus a chance at one for every remaining aut? 13:12:14 oh, I see what you mean 13:12:31 yeah, probably take the str+dex check 13:12:58 that's the only check that all the aux attacks use 13:13:06 yeah 13:13:14 that one can still cap out, but it can do that already 13:13:20 yeah 13:13:32 is the idea to do this for all aux attacks? 13:13:39 doy: yes 13:13:43 okay 13:13:47 So aux attacks with slow weapons will be more advantageous for relatively low str+dex characters? 13:14:05 Since high str+dex characters are likely already at or near the top 13:14:23 I guess getting to 50 already isn't hard, hm 13:14:31 depends on species/background 13:14:33 is there really no other check? 13:14:37 and depends on chei 13:14:42 yeah, and zin 13:14:49 and Jiyva 13:15:00 There are a few other checks, but none uniform for all aux attacks 13:15:09 yeah, I see 13:15:10 most have a 2/5ths chance to trigger, but VS bite (for example) does not 13:15:16 it's been a while since I looked at this code 13:16:12 IMO it isn't great that bite and kick and such are guaranteed when str+dex >= 50 13:16:37 yeah, it makes them relatively strong 13:16:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:48 well, not strong exactly, but consistent 13:16:50 as compared with the one-in-x chance ones 13:16:57 well, consistently triggering, which is strong 13:17:17 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:35 I guess really I mean that it isn't great that str+dex = 50 is a magic value 13:17:39 yes 13:17:43 and after that str/dex don't help auxes nearly as much 13:18:47 since that's true for all auxes currently - it is just most obvious for kick / VS bite 13:18:52 Maybe if chance were something like (1 - (str+dex)/100) * 2 13:19:04 it's pretty hard to get to 100 str + dex 13:19:23 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:31 do you mean ^ 2 13:19:49 also do you mean chance of failure 13:20:06 er, no, I meant *2, but that's terrible math. 13:20:30 But you got what I was going for 13:20:34 yes there were a few things wrong there :P coming up with a good formula that doesn't shift balance a lot from current balance will be hard 13:21:13 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:13 probably the simplest thing would be to replace str+dex with random2(2*str+2*dex+1) 13:21:24 or maybe I mean without the +1 13:21:43 it doesn't have a +1 now 13:22:00 right I meant in "replace str+dex with random2(2*str+2*dex+1)" 13:22:08 haha, shit 13:22:16 anyway that doesn't really address the issue with scaling by aut 13:22:27 I tried to look at hangedman's patches, but the turkish gov't has blocked pastebin 13:22:36 haha, dang 13:22:39 heh 13:22:41 there isn't really a great way to scale by aut unless we want to allow a chance at multiples of the same aux in a given attack 13:22:41 vpn? 13:22:47 elliptic: yes 13:22:50 that sounds like a lot of effort 13:23:02 elliptic: or we're okay with nerfing auxes, which I don't think needs to happen 13:23:03 imho someone stick it onto sprunge and/or I can wait a week (and forget about it) 13:23:23 ...that sounded more demanding than I meant it to be! 13:23:52 http://paste.tozt.net/2014-09-23vgeKKcsH-44MWvGAk.txt http://paste.tozt.net/2014-09-237KYXiPu0-iG7Vup5j.txt http://paste.tozt.net/2014-09-23twtdKiRk-Muxe3ded.txt 13:24:59 anyway I don't think the current aux situation with fast weapons being better is awful really 13:25:06 ah, beautiful. thanks, doy! 13:25:15 not much different from slaying helping fast weapons more 13:25:21 !tell Grunt An unseen horror, a lurking horror and a thrashing horror come into view. 13:25:21 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 13:25:48 I wouldn't mind changing it, but I would want to change it to a formula that varies smoothly over all aut 13:25:58 what a horrible message! 13:26:36 elliptic: I think VS needs a bit of a nerf, and that was one way to do it. If we can't come up with a good approach, I'll probably just aim to knock down the bite damage a bit. 13:26:53 VS using qblades is a bit weird but VS could probably use a nerf in general, yeah 13:27:00 -!- coolguy6699 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:13 imagine a mighty tabstorm signal going out 13:27:16 ringing out through the heavens 13:27:19 elliptic: I agree that smoothly varying is good, 13:27:20 ? 13:27:32 tabstorm: scroll up one line before my ping 13:27:39 o no! 13:27:42 haha 13:27:51 thats what we have 0.15 for 13:28:04 I mean I agree with elliptic but I thought you might want to argue about this more, like you were earlier 13:28:11 -!- theTower has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:25 vs using qb is good 13:29:37 seeing as imo shortblades are sort of meh for almost everyone else 13:29:47 tabstorm: well, vs would probably still be happy using qb even if their bite damage was reduced a bit 13:29:49 if you want to nerf specifically qb vs 13:29:52 I remember reading calculations that with the captain's cutlass and good str/dex a vs could get double the avgeffdam of a human (compared to 133%-ish for centaur, tengu), and since there is already an xl curve embedded into vs bites and a regenerative dynamic attached to the whole thing a different curve sounds fine to me anyway 13:30:10 you can just change the bite so that it goes at like.. 0.5 or something, and not on each attack 13:30:23 or min (0.5, atk speed) or whatever 13:30:27 er, max 13:30:48 making it not be guaranteed at 50 str+dex is another option, yes 13:30:54 they don't get to be invulnerable but they still have some of the most ridiculous melee possible 13:31:04 -!- theTower has left ##crawl-dev 13:31:08 VS bite deals 2*HD/3, so 0-17 at XL27 13:31:26 elliptic: I'm a little worried that reducing their bite frequency might make them unbearably frail 13:31:30 Lasty_: the formula is much more complicated than that :P 13:31:42 presumably you mean 2*HD/3 is the base damage for the bite 13:31:48 but it gets modified by stuff 13:31:55 elliptic: ah, you're right. I skipped over the usable fangs damage 13:32:48 Lasty_: well I just meant that everything in player_aux_apply happens too 13:33:24 Ah, so it does -- I'm just getting to that bit. I hadn't thought that unarmed combat would factor in str/dex three times, but apparently it does 13:34:09 but yeah, 0-23 base damage at xl 27, it appears, modified by stats, fighting, and a variety of situational things. 13:34:11 well, it is just the same as regular combat except for the str+dex/50 thing 13:34:45 but, also, it's on top of regular combat 13:34:54 well, check other bites -- they factor str in as "str_bite_damage". Not VS, though. 13:35:09 right, other bites are weird 13:35:12 !tell wheals which gdb version are using? I *think* crawl is triggering a gdb 7.3-7.7.0 bug 13:35:12 johnny0: OK, I'll let wheals know. 13:35:23 also VS bite having extra randomization is weird 13:35:34 other aux attacks have fixed base damage 13:35:47 johnny0: whatever gdb comes with msysgit 13:35:54 oh wait, it doesn't 13:35:56 VS doesn't, does it? I may have accidentally implied that. 13:35:58 was misreading 13:35:59 yes 13:36:06 okay we understand it now though :) 13:36:09 haha 13:36:10 indeed 13:36:23 wheals: can you run "gdb --version" and let me know the version number? 13:37:00 yeah, one second 13:37:10 so, by high levels, it's dealing about as much damage as a swing from a fair-quality weapon. 13:37:11 Lasty_: maybe just change 2*XL/3 to XL/2 or something like that 13:37:42 if we just want a mild nerf 13:38:29 That would be a fair/mild nerf. 13:39:04 I doubt it'll significantly impact VS power level, but that's find. 13:39:06 *fine 13:39:12 Some species are just very strong. 13:39:13 I almost feel like it would make sense if the bite didn't do any damage, but just had the antimagic + restore mp effect. that was roughly my intuition when I first encountered the race 13:39:21 that might be too severe a nerf 13:39:31 though that could be compensated for in other ways 13:39:38 That would definitely be a severe nerf. 13:40:14 yellow draconian zealot (09q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 70-90 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 08acid | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1616 | Sp: s.acid (3d7+7d5); sum.demon, hellfire burst (3d15), minor healing (2d8), smiting (7-17), animate dead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 13:40:14 %??draconian zealot 13:40:19 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:27 PleasingFungus, i think i just experienced the 5d7 hellfire burst 13:41:04 wheals: what is a 5d7 hellfire burst 13:41:16 elliptic, what monsters use if they are targetting a monster 13:41:20 good 13:41:25 also fix that IMO 13:41:41 Did they target you or something near you? 13:41:47 I guess you're not with Ru. :p 13:41:53 no, gozag :) 13:42:05 friendly zealot targetted another monster 13:42:20 wheals: sounds like an Experience 13:42:28 seriously why would they use a different formula if they are targetting a monster, I didn't know that monster spell code was *that* crazy 13:42:31 elliptic: it's on my todo for when I get back, but it's the world's most trivial change if you want to do it first 13:42:44 okay where do I go to look 13:43:10 lemme find it again 13:43:20 !source mon-cast.cc 13:43:21 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc;hb=HEAD 13:43:27 okay I found it 13:43:37 time to git blame 13:43:41 we did that 13:43:46 long story short 13:43:56 it dates back to a re-organization that added that switch statement 13:44:00 six years ago, iirc? 13:44:11 the commit message mentions it 13:44:23 before which there was a long horrible if-else chain, and hellfire burst did... 3d5? damage against monsters 13:45:03 slowly but surely, crawl is getting better. :) 13:48:48 huh, kb commented out some code and left it lying around as recently as 21 months ago. shameful. 13:49:11 %git 3a415964 13:49:12 07greensnark02 * 0.5-a0-104-g3a41596: Pan overhaul: Allow monsters (including player ghosts) to use fire storm and ice storm, give Lom Lobon ice storm and Cerebov fire storm. Lom Lobon also gets conjure ball lightning. 10(6 years ago, 20 files, 264+ 202-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a4159644bb8 13:49:16 yep 13:49:31 (line 431 is the comment block I'm talking about, if anyone wants to reaverb it.) 13:52:26 dpeg: 13:52:27 !lg 13:52:28 3226. wheals the Talismancer (L27 HuAr of Gozag), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2014-09-23 18:50:39, with 2586318 points after 94353 turns and 5:04:15. 13:53:02 congrats! 13:53:13 huh. there's code specifically to prevent monsters from wasting time casting regen when they're in death's door 13:53:16 Nergalle (16o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 60 | AC/EV: 9/11 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(66) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 804 | Sp: b.draining (3d18), sum.spectral orcs, haste other, 04esc:death's door | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 13:53:16 %??nergalle 13:53:25 good code 13:54:05 %git :/Remove.*Regen 13:54:06 Could not find commit :/Remove.*Regen (git returned 128) 13:54:13 %git :/Remove.*egener.*ergalle 13:54:14 Could not find commit :/Remove.*egener.*ergalle (git returned 128) 13:54:18 %git :/egener.*ergalle 13:54:19 07MarvinPA02 {kilobyte} * 0.10.1-65-gbd6a695: Don't let undead monsters cast Regeneration 10(2 years, 6 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bd6a69568208 13:54:28 -!- omnirizon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:54:37 %git :/ergalle.*egeneart 13:54:38 Could not find commit :/ergalle.*egeneart (git returned 128) 13:54:40 %git :/ergalle.*egenerat 13:54:40 07Grunt02 * 0.13-a0-622-g1c40c44: Attempt to rebalance Nergalle. 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1c40c441385e 13:54:50 ahh 13:54:53 didn't realize that 13:55:07 Grunt.... 13:55:35 johnny0, GNU gdb 6.8 13:55:48 ...what on earth is SPELL_DISCHARGE 13:55:59 wait, if the g doesn't stand GNU, what does it stand for 13:56:05 PleasingFungus, static? 13:56:09 mm 13:56:24 I was reading it as "spell discharge" instead of "spell: discharge". need to go to bed 13:56:32 also I'm guessing it's shock serpents 13:56:46 // TODO: possibly check for friendlies nearby? 13:56:47 !send sleep PleasingFungus 13:56:47 Sending PleasingFungus to sleep. 13:57:11 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140923030204]] 13:58:27 -!- Miauw has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:04 -!- __Jeff has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:59:08 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-755-g675938f: Don't make hellfire burst do less damage when aimed at a monster (PleasingFungus). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=675938f15c82 13:59:36 araganzar (L19 GrFE) (Elf:2) 13:59:36 mm beogh nerfs 13:59:46 !crash * 13:59:47 8259. araganzar, XL19 GrFE, T:63649 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/araganzar/crash-araganzar-20140923-185935.txt 14:00:35 need to give orc high priests summon hellion, then it will be an beogh buff 14:00:36 -!- ldf_ has quit [Quit: ldf_] 14:01:00 wheals: thanks, hmm 14:01:03 &rc araganzar 14:01:05 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/araganzar.rc 14:03:27 ??innuendo 14:03:27 innuendo[1/12]: thats a hell of a shaft 14:03:54 maybe swap ??innuendo[1] with ??innuendo[12] 14:04:45 araganzar (L19 GrFE) (Elf:2) 14:04:48 seems that was the only use of mons_foe_is_mons 14:05:02 hm I wonder what is going on with araganzar's game 14:05:27 it looks like some issue with stash-tracking items when entering a new level 14:06:32 &versions 14:06:42 CAO: 0.16-a0-754-gbafcc93, CBRO: 0.16-a0-754-gbafcc93, CDO: 0.16-a0-743-g4c9e761, CKR: 0.16-a0-747-geaeaf20, CLAN: 0.16-a0-747-geaeaf20, CSZO: 0.16-a0-753-g1b75789 14:07:30 wheals: oh, I can remove that 14:10:03 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:28 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:15:33 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:44 araganzar (L19 GrFE) (Elf:2) 14:17:34 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:19:31 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-756-gc7f64e0: Remove unused function mons_foe_is_mons (wheals). 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7f64e06dd62 14:23:12 i wonder why all these enchantments set beam.is_beam to tru 14:23:13 e 14:25:37 -!- Kailyn_Quitzon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:37 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:04 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:33:37 -!- hauzer has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:22 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:25 -!- Jho has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:24 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:54 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-757-g882065d: Land the player in the right place when returning from one of the hells. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=882065da1a43 14:44:54 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-758-g2cad50d: Simplify. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2cad50dab05f 14:49:26 -!- hito has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:51:39 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:22 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:05:02 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:06:43 -!- asdu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:07:24 <|amethyst> elliptic: some kind of lua stack corruption it seems like 15:08:00 <|amethyst> elliptic: I thought at first it was because of pushing pointers to auto data but now I'm not so sure 15:08:03 -!- cribo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:45 <|amethyst> elliptic: loading araganzar's save under valgrind I get reports about out-of-bounds writes by KillMaster and later by the stash tracker 15:08:46 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:09:45 <|amethyst> elliptic: both of those situations involve pointers to auto data, but I'm not seeing how that leads to the stack corruption; and changing those things to use 'new' doesn't seem to fix it anyway :( 15:12:18 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:12:28 ??draw out power 15:12:28 draw out power[1/2]: Restore a good chunk of health and mana in echange for about 0.4 skill levels of drain and exhaustion. Also frees you from webs, nets, constriction, confuse and petrification. Ru's 3* ability. 15:16:24 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:17 03nrook02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-759-g0598440: Poke hole to allow dock_piety() calls from Lua. 10(6 months ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=05984400c2a2 15:17:17 03nrook02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-760-g87a0f83: Add general "toll" table for troves, to ease adding godless troves later 10(6 months ago, 2 files, 105+ 44-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87a0f83aca42 15:17:17 03nrook02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-761-g97dfbf9: Add troves that, when entered, steal your piety. 10(6 months ago, 2 files, 49+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=97dfbf900879 15:17:17 03nrook02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-762-g3be1ec8: Modify debug_portal to support godless troves too. 10(6 months ago, 2 files, 44+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3be1ec814cfb 15:17:17 03nrook02 {wheals} 07* 0.16-a0-763-ga1962e9: Veto nopiety troves for demigods. 10(6 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a1962e92db34 15:17:17 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-764-g7febf84: Veto piety troves for Gozagites too. 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7febf84e8716 15:17:55 piety trove owns 15:17:55 we are the fastest 15:18:11 oh, nice 15:18:21 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:18:38 enter piety troves ^ru imo 15:19:26 sacrifice piety 15:19:30 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:26 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:22:23 -!- johlstei_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:50 did you know that ru is a mummy buff 15:23:53 disgraceful isn't it 15:23:58 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:26:16 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:27:33 Expanded layout_pan_divisions. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8985 by infiniplex 15:34:40 -!- yokelz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:03 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:03 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:36:51 -!- Monkaria has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:38:09 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:15 !tell elliptic any thoughts on #7539? 15:40:15 wheals: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 15:42:51 wheals: yeah it looks like gdb has had some major issues wrt attaching to processes that use the windows debugger functions 15:43:17 on both 6.x and 7.x versions 15:43:25 was mine using the windows debugger for some reason? 15:44:01 well, crawl sets a breakpoint before telling the debugger to attach 15:44:31 is there a way to enable view_delay 0 for *only* ranged combat, not spells or other animations? 15:45:26 <|amethyst> Brannock: no, but you can disable animations for just ranged + spell beams 15:45:33 <|amethyst> Brannock: use_animations -= beam 15:45:48 that's perfect, thanks 15:46:29 hm, that uses regular animations for arrows (and I assume other launchers) still 15:47:03 does it? 15:47:13 oh 15:47:15 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:47:15 I mistyped it 15:47:20 forgot the plural 15:47:28 yep, worsk 15:47:47 wheals: i guess some of the early 7.x point releases worked fine, but there was a regression -- for example, my cygwin install's gdb 7.6 can't get useful info from crawl when attaching automatically, but it works fine if i attach sometime before the crash 15:48:06 interesting 15:48:38 i'm trying to build an official 7.7.1 release to test with -- i think i've been testing with some 7.7 weekly snapshot 15:49:12 (which *could* get useful info, so i guess it was a snapshot of some time after the fix went in) 15:49:23 wheals: seems fine to me 15:50:14 wheals: not really any different than letting Mf start with an axe 15:51:09 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:23 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:55:33 wheals: btw, does piety trove generate as early as other troves do? since losing all your piety on D:10 might not mean much (overflow altars can be on D:9...) 15:55:48 wow, they can be on D:10? 15:56:03 !lm * recent br.enter=trove s=oplace 15:56:03 2778 milestones for * (recent br.enter=trove): 290x D:11, 282x D:10, 247x D:12, 243x D:13, 210x D:14, 165x D:15, 156x Vaults:1, 135x Elf:1, 134x Vaults:3, 133x Vaults:2, 132x Depths:1, 125x Vaults:4, 113x Elf:2, 109x Elf:3, 85x Depths:3, 78x Depths:2, 75x Depths:5, 52x Depths:4, 2x D:8, 2x Lair:2, Orc:4, Lair:3, Lair:4, Snake:5, D:19, D:16, Zot:2, Hell, D:5, Snake:4 15:56:27 -!- FatShack is now known as FShckAway 15:56:40 I would say disallow piety troves on D:10-12 15:56:54 if there's an easy way to do that 15:57:07 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:57:09 probably, but i don't know enough lua i bet 15:57:28 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:43 just look at the last two commits, i think it's determined on portal creation (ie level generation) 15:58:18 I guess adding the check shouldn't be that hard if the player is always on the same level when this happens 15:58:30 I'll look at it later maybe 15:58:55 !lm * br.enter=trove oplace=d:5 15:58:56 1. [2014-04-20 17:09:45] tizzy the Executioner (L21 GrFi of Okawaru) entered a treasure trove on turn 58573. (D:5) 15:59:00 (also I might disallow xommites from it) 15:59:12 that was presumably trowel 15:59:57 !lm * cv>=0.15-a br.enter=trove s=oplace 15:59:57 2149 milestones for * (cv>=0.15-a br.enter=trove): 218x D:11, 203x D:10, 188x D:13, 188x D:12, 169x D:14, 124x D:15, 116x Vaults:1, 111x Vaults:3, 109x Elf:1, 108x Depths:1, 107x Vaults:2, 95x Vaults:4, 89x Elf:2, 87x Elf:3, 69x Depths:3, 64x Depths:2, 56x Depths:5, 40x Depths:4, 2x D:8, D:19, Snake:4, Zot:2, Snake:5, Hell, D:16 16:00:28 what if it made xom BORED 16:00:43 If piety troves are offered to Ru followers, they should be three troves grafted together. :p 16:01:04 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:19 imo weapon/armour/jewellery troves 16:01:27 because those are actually good 16:02:21 wheals: also, did you test out converting to gozag after a piety trove is created and stuff like that to get around the checks? 16:02:28 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:55 converting to gozag after one is created also loses all your piety 16:03:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:24 right, I just meant that I could imagine the messaging being weird 16:03:51 oh, a bit i guess 16:04:10 could special case it to give him a message encouraging you 16:04:52 -!- Krakhan has quit [] 16:05:46 -!- Adder has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:07:02 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:08:20 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:44 Bloaxor, 3 stats at XL%3 probably makes more sense than 2 stats at XL%2, plus it solves the XL27 problem 16:15:44 I made a post along those lines 16:16:01 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:04 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 16:16:06 "Why not just have the +2 every odd level, for 24 total? " 16:16:48 keeping the unusual % 2 while including XL27 without a special case 16:17:14 that's 26 by my count 16:18:02 xl3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 27 16:18:12 indeed 16:18:16 either way I think we need to reduce Dg base stats for this to make sense/stave off balance concerns 16:18:26 XL%3 or XL%2+1, whichever pattern 16:19:43 11/12/11 to 10-all doesn't seem so bad, and shouldn't impact XL1-4/5 before they catch up to original sstate 16:19:44 well what are the balance concerns 16:19:44 like I've posted a couple times, I don't care one bit about the balance, but it seems to be generally accepted that Dg don't need a buff 16:19:44 I just want to see them become more distinct-feeling 16:19:54 they have shit skills compared to specialist races 16:20:09 while having not terribly more stats unless they focus like mad 16:20:19 without the ability to worship a god 16:20:36 demigods he he he 16:20:55 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:57 -!- dtsundere has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:39 how noisy is ru's apocalypse 16:23:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:23:56 -!- dtsundere is now known as dtsund 16:25:18 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:29:18 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:36:55 !tell gammafunk More interesting Sif talk on forum. https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=13721&p=190894#p190894 16:36:56 dpeg: OK, I'll let gammafunk know. 16:40:01 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:24 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:42 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:38 -!- DrKe has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:15 we're having a nice talk about how aut scoring is more problematic than turn scoring 16:55:06 lessens (L15 FeCK) ASSERT(is_valid_shaft_level(known)) in 'dungeon.cc' at line 5947 failed. (D:15) 16:56:32 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:45 -!- Cannonbait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:52 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 16:59:36 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:02:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 17:03:35 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 17:10:12 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:11:49 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:52 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:28 nice catching my inability to count, Brannock. 17:18:35 hehe 17:19:23 rchandra: two digits... only men from the former centurt can safely compute in this region without electronic device support. 17:19:27 27 / 2 = 13, so surely just counting the odd ones (skipping 1) means it's 12! 17:19:47 century even 17:20:20 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:21:55 -!- CacoS has quit [] 17:22:15 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-765-g95fffa2: Unstriken Ru description 10(22 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95fffa207540 17:22:15 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-766-g2d5a29f: Mark ally-only use wands useless under Sac Love 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 32+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d5a29fc0d80 17:22:16 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-767-g491d1ea: Nerf Draw Out Power again and buff Power Leap 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=491d1eabbbbe 17:22:16 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-768-ga7280bd: Paragraph out some repeated Ru ability text. 10(21 hours ago, 1 file, 52+ 39-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a7280bdb4eac 17:22:16 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-769-g33ef2aa: Add a 'Reject Sacrifices' ability for Ru 10(8 minutes ago, 10 files, 80+ 23-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=33ef2aa49859 17:23:37 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:09 -!- read has quit [Quit: class] 17:24:21 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-764-g7febf84 (34) 17:24:57 s/Reject/Sacrifice/ 17:24:59 ,3 17:25:00 <3 17:25:13 haha 17:25:18 It's been mentioned by a few people :D 17:25:23 Of course it has! 17:25:46 It's the same way that BATTLESPHERE became, well, BATTLESPHERE. :) 17:26:15 -!- h2lma has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:27:04 -!- eliotn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:00 dpeg: haha 17:30:03 nice one 17:30:36 fortunately there are still NERDS like me and various others who practice the old art of messing with numbers 17:33:00 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:19 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:38:04 Bloaxor: you cannot fool us. We know you have been using your fingers and toes! :) 17:38:33 when i was seven or something, probably 17:38:52 now i just have numbers in my head 17:38:52 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:38:54 it's pretty cool 17:40:12 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:49:00 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-770-gf64922d: Rename Sacrifice Sanity to Sacrifice Courage 10(4 minutes ago, 8 files, 24+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f64922dfdc87 17:50:58 Lasty: hm, did you rename the actual tile file too? 17:51:30 aw crap, no. I told myself to, but then forgot 17:51:41 git mv ru_sacrifice_{sanity,courage}.png 17:51:42 :) 17:52:30 Does sacrifice love do anything if you later convert to Ely? 17:52:40 Do anything to pacification, I mean 17:53:27 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:32 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: on y dort] 17:54:30 magicpoints: I assume it makes it not work 17:54:40 ??sacrifice_love 17:54:40 gammafunk: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 17:54:41 sacrifice love[1/2]: You are hated by all - Excluding OOD/ball lightning/battlesphere/spectral weapon/fulminant prism. Everything in the dungeon is hostile on sight. Enslave doesn't work. 17:54:42 but I haven't tested 17:54:52 imo sacrifice funk 17:55:07 I'm telling gammafunk you said that. 17:55:19 rip Sequell 17:56:16 It probably should be tested because then a wand of heal wounds might not be totally useless to a VS with sacrifice love 17:56:21 obscure corner cases ahoy 17:56:36 ??sacrifice_love[2 17:56:36 sacrifice love[2/2]: Spells that work normally: Conjure Ball Lightning, Battlesphere, Spectral Weapon, Fulminant Prism, Orb of Destruction. Fire Storm vortices are hostile. 17:56:43 heh 17:56:46 magicpoints: Once you get to that level of uselessness, I'm comfortable marking it as useless. :p 17:56:48 fire storm vortices 17:56:59 Summoning hostile butterflies is fun 17:57:21 fr: hostile ice blocks from glaciate 17:57:34 Are the ice blocks normally "friendly"? 17:57:36 Can monsters swap places with hostile butterflies 17:57:56 magicpoints: Probably? The pushing code is weird. 17:59:11 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-771-g795ecda: Rename the Sac Sanity tile to match the previous commit (oops) 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=795ecda36efc 17:59:12 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:26 worth checking, usually it's same genus only isn't it? 18:01:27 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 18:02:06 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:03:13 If they can't swap then summoning hostile butterflies in a corridor sounds like a (sometimes) genuinely good idea 18:03:42 honestly there are probably uses for summoning hostile butterflies or rats 18:04:10 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:17 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04:27 abRuse! 18:04:38 you mean secret tech 18:04:47 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:58 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:02 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:44 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:45 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:08:10 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:23 -!- joy1999 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:09:00 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:10:17 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10:18 -!- [1]AtomikKrab is now known as AtomikKrab 18:11:17 -!- hauzer1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:11:34 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 18:13:11 iirc correctly, there's a weird zin bug where if you're in water and set up a sanctuary with a monster in it, you can swap with them 18:13:38 trollpeg is rusing you all 18:15:11 I wonder if e.g. a brimstone's hellfire foe ratio would make it not use hellfire against the hostile b 18:15:58 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:16:43 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:55 ' Can monsters swap places with hostile butterflies' no, they cannot 18:18:31 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:03 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:22:01 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:22:27 Patashu: surely they can if they are butterflies or bats 18:22:42 batty monsters can't push/be pushed past 18:23:56 -!- MgDark has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:36 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-772-gafa9bb5: clua: m:status(). 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=afa9bb5b308e 18:25:16 -!- Reverie has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:28:42 -!- ibar has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:31:07 -!- anubisbafoobis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31:35 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:33:01 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35:28 -!- Siegurt has quit [Client Quit] 18:36:33 Mrrrgh. In order to color Ru sacrifices differently on the (A) screen, I need to store a list of which mutations were acquired due to Ru. I guess that means creating a vector like you.innate_mutation for ru sacrifices. 18:36:49 That's scary. It means adding saving and restoring . . . 18:36:51 -!- Amnekian has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:01 well 18:37:09 don't you already have to be distinguishing them 18:37:17 in order to not make them curable by !curemut 18:37:18 -!- Nuklearni-okurka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:19 ? 18:37:44 No, they're "innate", like racial mutations 18:37:51 so I'm piggy-backing on that 18:37:57 ah, okay 18:39:42 -!- FShckAway is now known as FatShack 18:39:46 is racial mutation or not racial mutation a flag or enum? 18:39:58 it's stored in you.innate_mutations 18:40:06 aah ok 18:41:04 which is to say, non-innate ones are stored in you.mutations, and innate ones ^ 18:42:11 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:46 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:56 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:46:46 -!- ActinalWhomp has joined ##crawl-dev 18:49:21 -!- ActinalWhomp has left ##crawl-dev 18:50:03 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:19 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:59:41 -!- Skybreaker has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:19 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 19:02:15 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:04:56 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:15:57 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:45 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:09 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:35 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:27:09 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:29 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:59 -!- Lelia_McKenzie47 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:04 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:15 wheals: nice commits you pushed there!!! ty 19:52:25 * Grunt pushes nrook. 19:52:34 * wheals squashed nrook's commits like ants!!!!!!!! 19:52:39 oh no!!! 19:53:10 if I don't use 9 commits, nobody will know how hard my change was, and it will be too easy to rebase 19:53:26 !rebase nrook 19:53:27 wheals rebases nrook. Nrook is banished to the reflog! 19:53:54 fr: git monster 19:54:52 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:54:53 spells: pull, push, rebase (banish), checkout (af_clown---checkout can do anything!!) 19:56:21 03wheals02 07* 0.16-a0-773-g9251c71: Increase halfling stealth apt to +2. 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9251c715b4d9 19:56:28 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:32 git (02*) | Spd: 12 | HD: 1 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 1 | 11non-living, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(4), 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 1 | Sp: blink close, force lance (3d6), banishment | Sz: small | Int: plant. 19:56:32 %??lurking horror name:git n_rpl spells:blink_close;force_lance;banishment 19:56:53 blink_other_close would be better i guess 19:57:32 perfect 19:58:06 git (05p) | Spd: 13 | HD: 20 | HP: 126-178 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 3012(klown) | 10doors, see invisible, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(160) | Vul: 11silver | XP: 5112 | Sp: blink; blink other close, force lance (3d22), banishment | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:58:06 %??killer klown name:git n_rpl spells:blink_other_close;force_lance;banishment 19:58:09 there 19:58:18 complete with checkout!!! 19:58:51 perfecter!! 19:59:19 I wonder how feasible a postgame mode would be 19:59:24 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:59:34 start playing as a random 3-rune win, all branches are empty except the postgame ones that guy didn't do 20:00:11 be nice for testing out postgame changes 20:02:21 Now here's a great error: save corrupted: canary gone 20:02:21 EAT_CANARY; 20:02:21 yeah 20:02:21 ugh, I'm going to have to learn about marshalling and unmarshalling bytes 20:02:27 Anyone feel like giving me a really quick overview? :D 20:02:27 marshall up your courage before attempting that feat 20:03:36 to make sure you don't byte off more than you can chew 20:03:47 These puns are great. I'm learning a lot! 20:03:48 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:00 my advice: copy from someone else's code that already works 20:04:10 Patashu: that's what I was trying to do 20:08:04 Grunt, wheals, could I persuade either of you to let me know what sort of issue I might be looking for given that my canary got eaten? 20:08:04 i find that just happens with random saves that i keep around for a long time, how new was this save? 20:08:04 recent 20:08:11 But I just made some save-compatibility-affecting changes 20:08:27 I added "you.sacrifices", modeled after "you.innate_mutation" 20:08:39 in order to implement coloring Ru sacrifice colors in the (A) menu, as we discussed 20:08:54 So these saves definitely don't have that already 20:09:04 oh yeah, mhm 20:09:09 what do I need to do to say "if that value isn't in the save, set a default" 20:09:10 !source tag-version.h 20:09:10 <|amethyst> sounds like the compat code isn't properly detecting old saves? 20:09:10 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/tag-version.h;hb=HEAD 20:09:22 <|amethyst> Lasty: you have to make a new minor tag 20:09:31 Oh, ah 20:09:43 !source tags.cc 20:09:43 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/tags.cc;hb=HEAD 20:09:45 So I marshall if after the tag, default it in if before? 20:09:55 <|amethyst> always marshall 20:10:00 <|amethyst> but when unmarshalling 20:10:11 Lasty: look at TAG_MINOR_BOOK_ID in tags.cc 20:10:14 for a similar example 20:10:26 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:10:39 <|amethyst> do #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 if (th.getMinorVersion() < TAG_MINOR_THE_ONE_I_JUST_ADDED) give it some initial value; else #endif unmarshall it 20:11:02 wheals: thanks! 20:11:14 |amethyst: thanks! 20:11:15 <|amethyst> there's some explanation in docs/develop/save_compatibility.txt 20:11:23 yeah |amethyst's is a bit cleaner 20:11:35 |amethyst: Oh, beautiful! Should read through all the docs -- I keep getting surprised by what's documented 20:12:14 <|amethyst> I also wrote a blog post on save compat a year or two ago 20:12:15 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:07 <|amethyst> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/save-compatibility-in-dcss-2 20:13:07 the book id change also mangled some saves irreversibly at first so perhaps it might not be the best example 20:14:25 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:37 hmm, so if I'm making use of this variable elsewhere, I should probably wrap it in a tag check also 20:14:47 since it's for major version 34 only 20:14:56 <|amethyst> ah, no 20:15:12 no, you want to make sure that you.sacrifices is always present and set 20:15:13 <|amethyst> the #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION stuff goes around compatibility code 20:15:22 Oh, duh, I see what you're saying 20:15:40 <|amethyst> the idea being that, when the major version is bumped, we won't be loading old saves anyway so the fixup code is unnecessary 20:15:54 basically, just mentally check that the code looks fine with and without the code in the #ifs 20:16:05 got it. Thanks! 20:17:18 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:19:37 -!- foophykins has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25:29 -!- Alysson67 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:14 Woo, got it working. Thanks again, folks! 20:30:29 -!- Zermako_ has quit [] 20:31:07 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:13 So, let's talk colors. Ru sacrifice mutations should be brown IMO, to match Ru. However, what if they're fully inactive? darkgrey, probably? What about if partially_active? 20:34:47 fully inactive/partially inactive meaning what? 20:35:38 fully_inactive means completely suppressed by circumstance/form 20:35:44 Not sure about partially inactive. 20:36:47 Ah, partially inactive example: scales that grant a resistance have the AC bonus inactive in forms but the resistance active, hence partially active. 20:36:53 -!- PsiRedEye22 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:01 (in statue form specifically) 20:37:23 I guess none of the Ru sacrifices are likely to be partially active 20:37:24 huh, never knew that 20:37:43 <|amethyst> that all should probably be changed 20:37:49 <|amethyst> I was young(er) and stupid 20:38:19 (er)? 20:38:19 <|amethyst> but re Ru, I kind of think all the sacrifices should be always active 20:38:33 |amethyst: they are, with the possible exception of some of the Purity ones 20:38:42 |amethyst: so you have a hand missing in wispform? 20:38:53 You're missing a tendril of fog. 20:38:55 <|amethyst> one tendril missing, sure 20:38:59 ha 20:39:00 <3 20:39:44 aw crap, brown already means "partially active" when not a permanent mutation 20:39:52 maybe purple for Ru? 20:40:06 imo change partially active? 20:40:24 erg, temporary ones already have lightmagenta/magenta 20:40:30 is there a list of valid colors somewhere? 20:40:56 <|amethyst> !source COLORS 20:40:56 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/skill_menu.cc;hb=HEAD#l271 20:41:01 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:41:02 <|amethyst> err, no 20:41:04 -!- mamgarchan has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 20:41:07 <|amethyst> !source defines.h 20:41:07 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/defines.h;hb=HEAD 20:41:11 red brown blue green magenta cyan lightred yellow lightblue lightgreen lightmagenta lightcyan darkgrey lightgrey white 20:41:20 (don't use darkgrey normally) 20:41:36 (besides which it's used for inactive muts right now) 20:42:21 Awright, so options unused are: lightred, lightgrey. Wow. That screen uses a ton of colors. 20:42:35 lightgrey is the normal mutation colour isn't it? 20:42:49 if so, then white is available. :p 20:42:52 <|amethyst> ban demonspawn from worshipping Ru 20:43:00 <|amethyst> then you have some extra colours :P 20:43:02 ah, yeah, there's lightgrey 20:43:35 so, lighted then 20:43:38 or white 20:43:40 hmm 20:43:54 they're bad, so lightred 20:44:54 crawl 20:44:55 oops 20:47:06 awright, that looks reasonablish 20:48:19 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:50:50 so, we will now have 4 kinds of muts, denominated by 4 vectors in the player class? 20:51:00 expect more mut refactor cls from me :p 20:51:31 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:46 hooray! 20:53:18 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:54:24 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 20:54:30 03Lasty02 07* 0.16-a0-774-g4e8a8e0: Color Ru sacrifices in the mutation menu 10(5 minutes ago, 7 files, 26+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4e8a8e009bb1 20:56:13 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:01:55 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:15 -!- DrKe is now known as drke 21:09:42 -!- drke is now known as DrKe 21:09:46 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:49 -!- Akitten_Homura has joined ##crawl-dev 21:09:51 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:59 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 21:10:11 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:01 -!- st_ has quit [] 21:14:46 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:56 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:31:09 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:01 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:12 -!- Kramell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:58 -!- Aurore50 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:35 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 21:41:03 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:41:25 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:49 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:42:29 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:45 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:46 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:48:11 -!- waspmonolith has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:58 -!- titanjones has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:51:27 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:51:59 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:50 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:52 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:46 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:59:28 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:48 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:43 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:10:15 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 22:14:08 -!- Orin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:33 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:17 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:33:19 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:00 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:39:20 -!- Anita_Farrell94 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:07 -!- Lasty_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:21 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46:40 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:52 -!- morphix0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:29 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:29 -!- Tendato has quit [Client Quit] 23:00:31 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:04:06 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:29 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:32 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:09 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:30 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:12 -!- SSG has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:12 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:33 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:53 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:10:59 -!- demiskeleton_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:06 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:02 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:49 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:20 -!- Alford_Cummings has quit [K-Lined] 23:19:00 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:35 -!- mkbehr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:57 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:21:40 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:22 -!- FatShack is now known as FShckAway 23:28:02 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 23:31:25 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:33:16 -!- PoopBridge has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:34 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:16 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]