00:00:34 should i wait to show these to bloax, or just push them now :( 00:01:43 is the plan to eventually convert to this art style? 00:01:51 all monster tiles, i mean. 00:02:44 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:02:56 which art style? 00:03:51 The style of those Dovan/Duvessa tiles. 00:04:08 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-721-g3f81eef (34) 00:04:28 And I suppose the new weapon tiles are in the same style as well? I'd need to look at them side by side. 00:05:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:05:58 ontoclasm1: haha, success? http://i.imgur.com/o3C9baM.png 00:06:10 TrFi 00:06:23 perfect 00:06:35 trolls wield shields with their knees, you know 00:06:43 hrm, what to do about that? 00:07:09 it looked fine with HuFi, of course 00:07:17 everything looked just like the monster wielding that equip 00:07:27 it's just some tiles aren't geared for showing equipment 00:07:50 gammafunk: tilemcache is the file that specifies that 00:07:51 perhaps a "show equipment" boolean option? 00:08:12 monsters with an entry can show the weapon; those without one can't 00:08:27 in... the giant switch statement i can't remember the name of 00:08:29 ah, so maybe just "do the best you can" with tiles like that 00:08:34 shields are in the one below 00:08:42 yeah 00:08:51 how do I know what coordinates, trial and error? 00:09:01 no, that's what the switch statement returns 00:09:15 the offset, i mean 00:10:01 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:07 !source mcache_monster::get_weapon_offset 00:10:07 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/tilemcache.cc;hb=HEAD#l293 00:10:09 read: since when does crawl have an art style 00:10:25 Hm good point. 00:10:51 ontoclasm1: well, my question is how can I easilly make some coordinates 00:10:52 ontoclasm1: I think gfunk was asking "how do I know which coordinates to use" 00:10:54 also, read: i'm not really going for bloax's style specifically, but we definitely want shading and sharp, colorful pixel art 00:10:56 yeah 00:10:56 trial and error was in fact my approach 00:10:58 when I was doing this 00:11:01 oh i see 00:11:09 probably you could poke around with an image editor if you wanted 00:11:10 yes, trial-and-error 00:11:13 to simulate 00:11:17 and also comparing to existing tiles 00:11:42 As long I don't have to like practice drawing circles freehand for 30 minutes and start wearing all black 00:11:46 and pretend I'm an artist 00:11:47 maud is a good baseline since her offset is 0, 0 and her hand is easy to see 00:12:10 ok, maybe it'd be good to just cover all the base monster tiles like tr 00:12:14 ug, gh 00:12:21 some of these will look pretty silly 00:12:23 but hey 00:13:14 !tell wheals ty for going through all those patches over the last few days, btw; I think it is a v good thing to have fewer player submissions rotting on mantis :) 00:13:15 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let wheals know. 00:13:31 oh I merged nrook's commits 00:13:35 gammafunk: doesn't gh already support weapon tiles? I know they used to use weapons 00:13:36 but I didn't handle the gitorious thing 00:13:37 the monsters 00:13:39 heh 00:13:45 !rng push_it wait 00:13:46 The RNG chooses: wait. 00:13:46 hrm, don't think they do? 00:13:54 idk 00:13:55 ghoul (05n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 129-165 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 3004(rot), 30 | 07undead, 10doors, 04eats corpses, evil | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 1547 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 00:13:55 %??ghoul 00:13:59 yeah no weapons 00:14:01 ghoul (05n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 129-166 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 3004(rot), 30 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, 04eats corpses, evil | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 1787 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 00:14:01 %0.14?ghoul 00:14:09 weird 00:14:16 don't ever ...right 00:14:18 yred 00:14:25 that was a change just before monsters picking up items was removed 00:14:29 to make yred guys less tedious 00:14:32 yeah of course 00:14:38 ghouls with weapons/equip owned 00:14:44 in terms of power 00:14:48 ya 00:14:50 rip 00:15:03 Powerful nerf to critical skill of yred players 00:15:07 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:16:21 !lg * !boring yred s=name 00:16:22 55483 games for * (!boring yred): 1017x bigpimpin, 428x nfogravity, 384x benreichert, 302x benny685, 294x xw, 248x chilly, 243x phyphor, 179x PolkaDot, 177x Neil, 173x iekko, 165x LordLovebone, 163x 78291, 162x Lemuel, 162x scummos, 161x ussdefiant, 151x Maurog, 150x minmay, 148x Miritol, 147x wheals, 146x Tekoppen, 144x raskol, 143x Tenaya, 142x FaeRogue, 134x yukiholuv, 133x simul, 132x tributet... 00:16:29 !hs bigpimpin yred 00:16:30 1025. bigpimpin the Phalangite (L22 DrDK of Yredelemnul), splashed with acid on Slime:5 on 2014-07-10 22:26:18, with 427426 points after 97768 turns and 7:02:15. 00:16:34 :( 00:16:39 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 00:16:46 wait, wheals is on that list. 00:16:48 huh. 00:16:51 !hs bigpimpin 00:16:52 1414. bigpimpin the Phalangite (L22 DrDK of Yredelemnul), splashed with acid on Slime:5 on 2014-07-10 22:26:18, with 427426 points after 97768 turns and 7:02:15. 00:16:59 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-721-g3f81eef (34) 00:18:29 !hs wheals yred 00:18:30 154. wheals the Devastator (L22 FeVM of Yredelemnul), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-05-12 02:21:14, with 1140412 points after 131392 turns and 6:35:34. 00:18:47 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-722-g4f6a679: clua: food.bottleable, food.edible. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f6a679ffe55 00:18:49 what an off-brand combo 00:26:19 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26:35 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:19 -!- Nabalzbhf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:39 hrm, the offset changes I'm making seem to get ignored 00:32:41 not sure why 00:35:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:38:03 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-722-g4f6a679 00:39:17 -!- DrKe is now known as drke 00:39:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 00:39:20 ah, that function is only used when drawing monsters it seems 00:39:41 -!- drke is now known as DrKe 00:46:49 -!- raskol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:54 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:52:27 -!- jeanjacques_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:20 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:55:00 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:55:00 -!- jeanjacques_ is now known as jeanjacques 00:57:20 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Client Quit] 01:03:56 -!- Orfax has quit [] 01:06:13 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:10:18 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:17:20 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:34 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:18:56 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:19:47 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-723-g26b6998: Make berserking as VpBe less suicidal (qw). 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=26b69986fa5f 01:20:57 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:22:27 -!- AltReality is now known as AltAway 01:25:09 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 35.0a1/20140919030202]] 01:25:59 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:27:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:00 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:35:01 03elliptic02 07* 0.16-a0-724-gb943d7d: Fix food.bottleable() not checking rot status (qw). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b943d7d457a3 01:46:50 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 01:54:53 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:45 -!- SkiChan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:04:39 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:05:34 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:08:41 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 02:12:51 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:37 -!- LexAckson has quit [Client Quit] 02:15:12 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:32 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:40 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-724-gb943d7d (34) 02:19:36 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 02:21:13 !lg qw vp max=score 02:21:13 No games for qw (vp). 02:22:29 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 02:25:01 -!- Kenran__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36:07 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:45:24 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:54 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:45 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:48:14 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 02:51:32 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:52:11 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:04:10 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:33 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:08:45 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:17:02 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 03:18:53 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:37 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:28:05 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:39 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29:45 -!- SkiChan has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:36 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 03:37:51 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:38:25 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:47:17 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 04:01:19 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 04:08:16 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 04:14:46 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:18:40 if im wearing two or more items that give the same evokable ability, they should give a bonus to the fail rate 04:18:53 Or the effect. Or both. 04:19:48 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:28:09 -!- eb_ has quit [] 04:41:04 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:44:16 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 04:56:58 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:08 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:10:28 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:05 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:08 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:14:29 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:36:44 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:03 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 05:38:41 -!- SkiChan has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:40:15 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:48 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:18 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:48 -!- pentax has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:44:23 -!- penciltax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:51:09 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:10 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:01:21 -!- markgo` has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:33 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:06:41 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 06:15:19 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:45 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 06:36:49 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:32 ugh, crawl name clashes with the windows headers -- i could get away with LEAN_AND_MEAN-ing some of the the includes, but there are clashes in some of the core headers too 06:48:52 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:54:29 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:30 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:02:11 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:03:07 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:15 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:11:33 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:20:30 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:01 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 07:31:25 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:35:08 question: why is this trove always bad https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/Screenies/bad_trove.png 07:40:57 open trove.des and find out 07:47:58 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:49:32 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:11 probably because it has 16 items and 1/2 of them aren't d's and 1/8th are f's while there is no particular theme 07:54:49 -!- Philonous has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:58:01 -!- xFleury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:59:31 elliptic: Won't it be a mistake now to train Shielding past like, 7.0, for anyone doing the 1H->2H and Oka/Mek -> TSO transition with Mi__ HO__? 07:59:42 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:55 !lg * ru / won 08:12:56 Lasty: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:12:56 13/338 games for * (ru): N=13/338 (3.85%) 08:13:02 !messages 08:13:02 (1/2) Patashu said (11h 42m 19s ago): does sacrifice hand interact with uc/tm forms? 08:13:04 !messages 08:13:04 (1/1) Patashu said (11h 39m 49s ago): ok nvm it does 08:13:12 -!- _D_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13:49 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:13 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:27:23 -!- Kadarus has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:35:08 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 08:35:14 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 08:36:39 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:42:31 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten] 08:45:36 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 08:54:15 -!- negatendo has quit [Client Quit] 08:55:34 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:55:35 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:39 xFleury: training shields skill really high and then taking off your shield is a bad idea, yes 09:03:44 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:05:37 especially because shields are really good 09:11:10 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:15:23 -!- Tenda is now known as TendaAway 09:16:25 elliptic: prior to that "simplification" that was arguable -- I'm not necessarily opposed to the change, but damn, that's a little more than a simplification 09:19:10 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:27 -!- TendaAway is now known as Tenda 09:24:28 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:26:23 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:29 Lasty: welcome! :) 09:26:29 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:26:54 There were 100 wins on the last day of the tournament, btw, new record. 09:27:12 dpeg: Thanks! 09:27:18 that is a lot of wins 09:27:55 Lasty: is it intentional for =tele to be marked useless when you sacrifice evoc? it can still random teleport you which is helpful in e.g. abyss 09:28:23 potatolizard: I think that's a mistake -- got a little overzealous on marking things useless 09:29:58 It's awesome how players contribute win rate increase to removal of item destruction. 09:30:37 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:32:28 !seen hangedman 09:32:29 I last saw hangedman at Sat May 10 12:44:57 2014 UTC (19w 1d 1h 47m 31s ago) parting ##crawl-dev, saying 'chanpart'. 09:32:33 !seen claws 09:32:33 Sorry dpeg, I haven't seen claws. 09:32:46 His batch of commits was really interesting. 09:33:45 -!- Harkenn has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:35:22 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:36:48 dpeg: Hi. 09:36:56 Hi Bloax! 09:37:03 what do you think of https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8973 09:37:07 it really wouldn't surprise me if at least part of the win rate increase was due to removal of item destruction 09:37:40 especially for the more careless players 09:38:38 even for non-careless players, it means you can carry around larger stacks of items than you would be able to otherwise 09:38:47 so you have more escape options 09:39:11 doy: fewer such items are generated now though 09:39:40 elliptic: sure, but that isn't the point 09:39:44 I think it could just be that the change speeds up "good player" play more than it speeds up "bad player" play 09:39:49 if anything then it's likely due to more people sticking with the game from the previous tournaments 09:39:58 and thus there are more people that can beat the game 09:40:17 since "good players" spend more time playing later on when item destruction and stashing used to be a thing 09:40:53 this would also cause a winrate increase without necessarily meaning the game is much easier to win (just quicker because less item management) 09:41:13 anyway, I think the massive nerf of *taurs probably has more to do with the winrate increase 09:42:04 players just blame it on item destruction removal because that is what they see 09:42:15 well ugly things are also massively buffed 09:42:21 elliptic: I'd also guess it is something along these lines rather than the oh-so obvious item destruction change. 09:42:23 so much that big groups of them are actually really scary 09:42:38 ugly things aren't getting that many kills 09:42:47 they are certainly scarier but they were extremely weak previously 09:42:52 so that isn't going to account for much 09:44:29 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:44:53 yeah, ranged damage nerf is also a big part i think 09:44:58 elliptic: the nerf of taurs being the new crossbow speeds? 09:45:12 !lg * t ckiller~~ugly_thing 09:45:13 323. gw the Basher (L11 DDGl of Makhleb), slain by a cyan ugly thing on D:11 on 2014-09-14 17:56:15, with 10091 points after 10603 turns and 0:11:53. 09:45:25 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0.2/20140917194002]] 09:45:33 Lasty: no, the nerf being that ranged combat was completely rewritten from scratch :) 09:45:40 and understandably this affected balance 09:45:52 yes 09:46:00 it is more noticeable with centaurs than yaktaurs, at least for me 09:46:08 because that means that EV was actually respected 09:46:36 elliptic: I didn't realize it had affected monster ranged combat 09:46:39 !lg * t !boring / ckiller=centaur 09:46:40 668/58007 games for * (t !boring): N=668/58007 (1.15%) 09:46:45 !lg * t0.14 !boring / ckiller=centaur 09:46:47 957/56533 games for * (t0.14 !boring): N=957/56533 (1.69%) 09:47:18 !lg * t !boring vaults|depths / ckiller=yaktaur 09:47:20 0/633 games for * (t !boring (vaults || depths)): N=0/633 (0.00%) 09:47:26 !lg * t0.14 !boring vaults|depths / ckiller=yaktaur 09:47:37 13/834 games for * (t0.14 !boring (vaults || depths)): N=13/834 (1.56%) 09:47:43 ouch 09:47:54 !lg * t !boring vaults|depths / ckiller=yaktaur_captain 09:47:57 3/633 games for * (t !boring (vaults || depths)): N=3/633 (0.47%) 09:48:00 !lg * t0.14 !boring vaults|depths / ckiller=yaktaur_captain 09:48:10 19/834 games for * (t0.14 !boring (vaults || depths)): N=19/834 (2.28%) 09:48:28 etc 09:48:29 Bloax: What was that about respecting EV? Did ranged monsters ignore it in the past? 09:48:38 no 09:48:50 but their accuracy was very high 09:49:05 yeah it was. I thought it still was . . . 09:49:10 still is 09:49:36 I don't know the details of exactly how things changed, I just know that you take noticeably less damage from monster ranged in most cases now 09:49:51 arbalest baileys still hurt though 09:50:15 assuming it still works like armed monster melee combat, I would assume that they do more damage now but fire less frequently 09:50:22 Lasty: part of the problem is that fsim doesn't handle monster ranged (and apparently never has) 09:50:26 ah 09:50:33 so we aren't really able to compare this stuff easily 09:50:49 Their accuracy was insanely high. 09:50:55 and yet RMsl completely wrecked it 09:54:17 !tell |amethyst There are quite a few clashes between crawl and the windows api -- some of these are worked around with #undefs and #defines, but only in a few files (and not done consistenty). This is mainly a problem with crawl's enums and macros -- AppHdr.h's PURE macro can get clobbered, S_NORMAL and AF_CHAOS can conflict, etc. Most of these are handled in libw32c.cc, but not anywhere else -- include a header in the "wrong" 09:54:17 Maximum message length is 300 characters. Eschew verbosity, Gladys! 09:54:23 order, like threads.h, and compilation fails spectacularly. 09:54:26 noooooooooo 09:54:53 non-verbosity is the root of this issue!!! 09:54:59 split the sentences :( 09:55:02 there's an AF_CHAOS in the windows api? 09:55:11 no 09:55:15 there's AF_KLOWN 09:55:27 doy: yes, one of the networking components 09:55:40 i guess there's a CHAOS protocol 09:55:45 heh 09:56:16 !seen thetower 09:56:16 I last saw theTower at Thu Sep 18 18:04:45 2014 UTC (2d 20h 51m 30s ago) parting ##crawl-dev, saying 'chanpart'. 09:56:21 dpeg: ^ 09:56:27 though he has about a dozen different aliases 09:56:40 I think he has one for every permutation of device and network he uses, or something like that 09:57:06 in any case, he doesn't really like to come into crawl-dev, so I'd probably try to contact him some other way 09:57:31 PleasingFungus: yes, I realised he is going by that one now. Who minds the aliases, as long as he comes up with good stuff. 09:58:12 !tell |amethyst There are quite a few clashes between crawl and the windows api -- some of these are worked around with #undefs and #defines, but only in a few files (and not done consistently). 09:58:12 johnny0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 09:58:26 sure - just makes it a little tricky to get in touch with him... clearly I need to set up some macro to /whois all of his known aliases at once. clearly! 09:59:14 !tell |amethyst This is mainly a problem with crawl's enums and macros -- AppHdr.h's PURE macro can get clobbered, S_NORMAL and AF_CHAOS can conflict, etc. Most of these are handled in libw32c.cc, but not anywhere else -- include a header in the "wrong" order, like threads.h, and compilation fails spectacularly. 09:59:14 johnny0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 10:02:05 !tell |amethyst I' 10:02:06 johnny0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 10:02:08 oops 10:02:21 well that's what i wanted to avoid :/ 10:02:35 PleasingFungus: don't bother with that. You already talk to SA, I always envy your patience and stamina. 10:02:48 ha 10:03:34 !tell |amethyst I don't want to leave you 300 [more] messages so I'll try to catch you later 10:03:34 johnny0: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 10:05:34 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:07:27 33621 | Elf:3 | HP: 14/125 [warg[an orc high priest] (8)] 10:07:32 warg[an orc high priest] 10:07:34 what 10:08:40 summon demon -> polymorph, maybe? 10:09:11 huh. come to think of it I'm surprised AF_CHAOS doesn't cause more conflicts 10:09:15 fr: polymorph traps 10:10:14 oh, that was the wrong channel. still weird, though 10:10:29 I guess it's sort of the right channel, because it almost looks like a bug? almost 10:10:52 <|amethyst> johnny0: hm... my suggestion would be to have a new header that just does #include the #undefs the relevant things 10:11:01 <|amethyst> and to use that everywhere instead of 10:15:03 Lasty: there might be a bug with the retribution aura, if an invisible monster hits you and gets corona'd there's no message 10:15:54 |amethyst: yeah, that was one of my thoughts too -- there are also benefits to doing that in case things like winsock2 get used for one reason or another (where the order of includes matters big time) 10:16:48 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:12 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:13 but what if something like the windows S_NORMAL definition actually needs to be used when implementing some os-specific chunk of crawl code? 10:18:44 <|amethyst> johnny0: I think in this particular case it isn't likely 10:18:54 then that os-specific chunk of code can go in its own .cc file 10:18:55 <|amethyst> S_NORMAL Note is held for the full duration, coming to a full stop before the next note starts. 10:19:20 (that doesn't include the crawl headers) 10:19:43 <|amethyst> (on SetVoiceAccent) 10:20:02 potatolizard: I think someone already pushed a fix for that -- lemme check 10:20:12 <|amethyst> whoever thought S_NORMAL was a good item for a public text-to-voice API, though... 10:20:28 yeah :/ 10:20:29 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=815055011dad2e290e5fcf7802c6849e27bfc32b 10:20:31 <|amethyst> s/item/identifier/ 10:20:38 <|amethyst> AF_CHAOS I can understand 10:21:09 <|amethyst> Fortunately, we're even less likely to use the "real" AF_CHAOS 10:23:41 true 10:25:00 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:36 -!- doy has left ##crawl-dev 10:26:02 for the sake of discussion, my other idea would be to refactor the enum names to either have a crawl-specific prefix or more full names -- but judging from the reaction to my _CW_SOME_DEFINE macros... 10:26:16 _ prefix is a bad idea 10:26:17 -!- Nuklearni-okurka has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:28 <|amethyst> you could put all the crawl stuff in a namespace 10:26:45 <|amethyst> (and "using" that most places) 10:26:56 <|amethyst> so if you had to distinguish you could do Crawl::AF_CHAOS vs ::AF_CHAOS 10:27:04 |amethyst: but wouldn't the preprocessor clash anyway in case of a #define anyway? 10:27:17 <|amethyst> oh, right, most of these are macros outside of crawl 10:27:31 <|amethyst> enums are advanced technology 10:29:53 geekosaur: the _ was just because those those were "private" macros -- they still had a prefix in addition to the _ 10:30:05 yes, but _ is reserved for private-to-the-OS 10:30:09 <|amethyst> _ doesn't mean "private to your program" 10:30:33 <|amethyst> (we use it that way for static things, but not on macros) 10:33:15 ahh i thought that was __ -- yeah i should probably un-_ those then 10:34:11 <|amethyst> __ is reserved for the implementation 10:34:22 what the __ 10:34:25 <_< 10:34:32 <|amethyst> Certain sets of names and function signatures are always reserved to the implementation: 10:34:35 <|amethyst> Each name that contains a double underscore (_ _) or begins with an underscore followed by an uppercase letter (2.11) is reserved to the implementation for any use. 10:34:38 <|amethyst> Each name that begins with an underscore is reserved to the implementation for use as a name in the global namespace.165 10:34:39 that *is* what you say when you start messing with __ macros :p 10:34:41 <|amethyst> 165) Such names are also reserved in namespace ::std (17.4.3.1). 10:35:03 (and you hit a conflict) 10:35:11 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:35:50 Lasty: why did you link that commit? 10:35:58 <|amethyst> Identifiers that begin with _ not followed by _ or uppercase is reserved for use as identifiers with file scope 10:36:04 <|amethyst> s/is/are/ 10:36:10 PleasingFungus: potatolizard was asking about it 10:36:22 -!- doy has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:05 hope everyone's using a portable compiler or on VMSD, use $? :p 10:37:05 *VMS 10:37:09 s/or/or not/ 10:38:18 ah 10:39:16 actually "and not" there. coffee... 10:39:44 ahh, so if you want to indicate, "hey, this macro is intended to only be used in the scope of this file", you still shouldn't use the _ convention since well, it's a macro and not something with linkage? 10:41:20 oh, "not followed by uppercase" 10:42:11 <|amethyst> or use _ but usually I'd just use uppercase without an underscore and #define/#undefine it around the relevant code 10:42:25 _ prefix is always dicey, the _ followed by non-uppercase may follow rules set by the OS API instead of by the language standard, etc. 10:42:47 <|amethyst> geekosaur: well, if we're going that far... 10:42:58 <|amethyst> geekosaur: then on Unix you can't start a function name with 'str' or 'to' 10:43:06 <|amethyst> or any global rather 10:43:18 unless you follow it with an underscore :P 10:43:24 * geekosaur thinking of struct sockaddr_un sun; 10:44:22 (being to a great extent why these rules exist :) 10:45:45 |amethyst, but I think the only relevance of *that* is that posix_ is also a reserved prefix? str* is just dicey (and has too much history to fix properly, absent namespaces which C still lacks) 10:47:51 Bloax: i did some duvessa edits again >.> 10:47:51 ontoclasm: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:47:52 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/dandd.png 10:47:58 !messages 10:47:58 (1/3) Bloax said (21h 30m 40s ago): free messages get yours today 10:48:01 !messages 10:48:01 (1/2) Bloax said (17h 38m 46s ago): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/plate.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/plate2.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/plate3.png 10:48:06 !message 10:48:06 You probably meant !messages, or possibly !tell. 10:48:10 eck 10:48:12 !messages 10:48:13 (1/1) Bloax said (15h 17s ago): btw i forgot to fancy up the artifact plate a bit 10:48:41 Not a fan of the hard face. 10:49:10 but yeah 10:49:14 plate tiles to go with plate dolls 10:49:24 those look good 10:49:39 the... skirt part? looks sort of off-center though 10:49:45 -!- lrvs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:49:58 i guess because of the collar, which makes it look like it's turned sideways a bit 10:49:59 yeah the angles are off to some degree 10:50:00 the relevant spec: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/xsh_chap02_02.html 10:50:12 but the arm looks amazing 10:50:21 thx 10:50:22 <|amethyst> ah, yes 10:50:28 i especially like the glove on the right part of the image 10:50:33 yeah 10:50:38 <|amethyst> I see now that it is reserved only if you include the relevant header 10:50:59 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/not_1887b2.png later on i then went ahead to make this 10:51:07 it was a funny day 10:51:56 ah, nope 10:51:59 -!- stoictaste has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 10:52:00 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/functions/V2_chap02.html is more recent 10:52:07 and is more restrictive about what is reserved 10:52:13 very nice 10:52:20 str[a-z] is reserved regardless of inclusion of headers, for instance 10:52:43 as is very classic of me it's actually an edit of http://i.imgur.com/QgYRuy9.png 10:53:07 mm 10:53:14 mrrr 10:53:20 hmm AF_foo can clash with unix sockets too 10:53:23 ./cluautil.h:54:28: error: unknown type name 'luaL_reg'; did you mean 'luaL_Reg'? 10:53:49 johnny0, hence my surprise at AF_CHAOS 10:54:42 (and why that name has been kinda nagging at the back of my head, MIT ChaosNet is not something I have to worry about in practice but I remember it being a reserved address and protocol family in the sockets API) 10:56:48 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:56:56 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:44 Lasty: boots of flying give permaflight and can't be turned off, is this intentional? 10:58:02 ontoclasm: http://i.imgur.com/QgYRuy9.png 10:58:04 er 10:58:11 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/pretty_elves.png god damn i 10:58:26 potatolizard: intentional-ish 10:58:33 hm 10:58:50 The boots are stuck on "fly" and since you don't know how to use them you can't turn them off 10:58:59 or rather, since you can't use them 10:59:15 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:33 I can see an argument for preventing their passive flight, and also an argument that ring of tele should teleport you randomly, but it's probably better to leave those as options 10:59:43 how about refactoring the enum entries to be less abbreviated in their namespaces (and therefore less likely to clash with some some system header macro) S_QUIET -> SHOUT_QUIET, AF_WHATEVER -> ATTACK_FLAVOUR_WHATEVER -- or is this entering the realm of "too much for too little"? 11:00:40 i think a windows.h wrapper header is the simplest way to go 11:00:51 ATKF_*? 11:02:18 wait, *tele doesn't randomly teleport you if you sacrifice evo? 11:02:57 it does 11:03:19 I guess it makes sense, you don't interact with the items, you just wield/equip/wear them and they do things 11:03:38 yeah -- all the passive magic from weapons/armour/rings all still work 11:08:40 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:47 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:25 geekosaur, that lua error is because you're building against lua 5.2 and crawl uses 5.1 11:12:56 shouldn't be... 11:13:09 |amethyst, geekosaur, doy: thanks for the macro naming conventions info btw -- glad to smash some of my bad habits earlier than later 11:13:12 but it is! 11:13:35 should I have gotten a git conflict if something conflicted with my Makefile patch to point it to lua51? 11:14:14 how do you install lua? 11:14:29 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:14:40 -!- mee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:14:48 macports. which puts 5.1 headers and libs in a private directory and modifies the pkgconfig stuff to point to it, come to think of it, not a makefile patch 11:15:16 * geekosaur checking if there was a regression in the lua51 port; had to patch the .pc file once but that was fixed several months ago 11:15:38 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:15:59 nope, looks fine... 11:16:35 oh. ffff. something else did pull in lua52, and the includes are in the wrong order :( 11:16:52 I wonder if crawl should maybe use lua 5.2 11:17:00 lua's (in)compatibilities are so silly 11:17:10 iirc there are problems with memory management on amd64? 11:17:27 <|amethyst> geekosaur: that's luajit I think 11:17:49 <|amethyst> or, rather, that is true of luajit and I'm not aware of it being true for plain lua 5.2; but I'm not sure of the latter 11:17:57 I have no idea, I only know that the API tends to change in a way that demotivates migration 11:18:05 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:05 but hey, 5.3 will finally support integers 11:18:14 crawl sets up a private memory arena to limit the possibility of DoSing the servers or etc. from clua, and that doesnt work on amd64 any more? 11:18:28 is my recollection 11:18:37 <|amethyst> geekosaur: what you say is true of luajit 11:18:47 <|amethyst> geekosaur: which is why I was thinking you were misremembering about 5.2 11:18:47 ah, ok 11:19:40 does anyone build crawl with luajit? 11:21:02 * geekosaur grumbles, this is gonna be a pain 11:21:17 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 11:21:25 Zaba: i posted a bug report the last time i compiled with luajit (there are issues with both building and running) 11:22:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:22:04 okay, so noone does 11:22:42 * geekosaur reinstalls some other stuff that sprouted lua52 deps 11:23:51 geekosaur, for what it's worth, I apparently have both lua 5.2 and 5.1 installed from homebrew without issues 11:24:20 Zaba: pretty much -- from what elliptic indicated about the % of processing time used by lua with qw, there's not much reason to 11:24:29 I build crawl using pkg-config for lua, too 11:24:49 I would guess they install lua52 also in a private subdir 11:25:15 <|amethyst> johnny0: did you try only amd64 w/ luajit or also x86? 11:25:43 what I seem to be seeing is that crawl's Makefile uses -isystem for ncurses so /opt/local/include is always searched before anything else 11:25:52 |amethyst: i think i tried amd64 on debian and x86 on windows 11:26:24 geekosaur, heh, they actually don't. I guess I just got lucky. 11:26:49 also for some other things. (I switched as many deps as possible to macports since I'm still working my way toward an official-ish port) 11:28:07 |amethyst: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8647 11:29:05 <|amethyst> geekosaur: -isystem should come after the -I it uses for lua 11:29:16 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I mean, -isystem should be searched after -I 11:29:25 hmm 11:29:47 wouldn't it be better to not try to support luajit if it doesn't fully work and if nobody wants it anyway? 11:30:06 i don't think i mentioned it in my note, but cross-compiling to windows is also a problem (since luajit2 needs some special flags passed to its makefile when there is an architecture conflict) 11:30:39 <|amethyst> yeah, I see no problem with dropping luajit support 11:30:45 <|amethyst> and removing it from contribs 11:30:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31:00 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:31:23 I haven't actually looked at the verbose compile line to see what it's actually up to. I thought I remembered gcc at least doing all -isystem before -I, but it's been a while and maybe they changed it 11:31:53 currently I'm just making the lua52 go away locally but I'll need to dig further at some point 11:32:17 <|amethyst> geekosaur: does your pkg-config lua5.1 --cflags report anything? 11:32:32 <|amethyst> geekosaur: and if not, does pkg-config lua --cflags point to 5.2 ? 11:32:44 pyanfar:440 Z$ pkg-config --cflags lua-5.1 11:32:44 -I/opt/local/include/lua-5.1 11:32:58 but lua 5.2 is in /opt/local/include directly 11:33:16 <|amethyst> what does your .cflags say ? 11:33:19 the crawl Makefile *looks* like that #include should follow the lua one, but. 11:33:54 oh, hm, it -isystem-s lua51 too 11:34:06 clang clang++ -O2 -pipe -Wall -Wformat-security -Wmissing-declarations -Wredundant-decls -Wundef -Wno-array-bounds -Wno-format-zero-length -Wno-parentheses -Wno-unused-parameter -Wwrite-strings -Wshadow -Wuninitialized -Iutil -I. -isystem /opt/local/include/lua-5.1 -Irltiles -isystem /opt/local/include -DWIZARD -DASSERTS -DREGEX_PCRE -DCLUA_BINDINGS 11:34:15 <|amethyst> oh, so it does 11:34:18 <|amethyst> INCLUDES_L += $(shell $(PKGCONFIG) $(LUA_PACKAGE) --cflags-only-I | sed -e 's/ 11:34:21 <|amethyst> -I/-isystem /') 11:34:37 <|amethyst> hm 11:35:29 guess I'll sort it later :/ gonna be a pain to figure this out, but if I want a port I'd prefer not to have to conflicts-build lua 11:39:18 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:33 * geekosaur has build going now, having rebuilt the latest wireshark minus lua and deactivated lua. annoying. 11:40:01 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:17 on/msg dpeg To save us a lot of work, I'm going to automate map blacking 11:40:21 er. oh hai 11:41:04 * geekosaur adds to ever-growing to-do list 11:44:14 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:53 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:53:07 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:54:24 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:51 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I imagine this is why Debian puts the latest version in a subdirectory too, not just the older ones 11:55:05 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:14 probably 11:56:23 <|amethyst> geekosaur: hm, you could patch the Makefile to use -I instead of -isystem for the lua things 11:56:27 -!- Palyth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:57:35 <|amethyst> geekosaur: but then you'll get warnings from the lua headers... perhaps you could throw in a --system-header-prefix somehow for clang (but gcc doesn't have that :( ) 11:58:59 lua is that one thing that should have every version in a separate directory 11:59:10 because compatibility is generally non-existent 12:00:18 <|amethyst> Zaba: so how hard would it be to port crawl to 5.2 ? 12:00:57 Bloax: idk man, why does havign big cheeks and lazer eyes make her pretty 12:01:13 also note that she is completely mundane so why are her eyes glowing 12:01:31 |amethyst, the biggest change is that luaL_openlib no longer exists, as far as I can tell 12:01:37 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02:01 because glowy eyes look good 12:02:09 it can be replaced in one way or another 12:02:32 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02:42 (in lua 5.2, 'require' no longer sets global variables, so local code is supposed to use libraries like 'local namespace = require "library"', and the API changed to kind of reflect that) 12:02:45 against a pale face? 12:02:48 er, lua code 12:03:03 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:03:26 she just looks kinda... alien to me 12:03:32 for APIs provided by C++, there's luaL_requiref which does the same thing as the above lua code, and various other ways to set the globals directly 12:03:35 like she has no features 12:03:55 abandon lua for guile :) 12:04:00 there's also luaL_setfuncs to load a table with function pointers, so it's basically just two hoops instead of one 12:04:00 her face is a perfect disc with glowing lights attached 12:04:05 bh, and who's gonna require all the lua code? 12:04:08 <|amethyst> bh: colorforth 12:04:11 bh, have you seen those lua layouts? they're crazy 12:04:19 Zaba: require? 12:04:25 rewrite 12:04:28 I can't write today 12:05:09 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-724-gb943d7d (34) 12:05:26 well i sure don't employ strong shadows 12:05:38 i still like the hair like that though 12:06:29 the hair you drew is fine 12:07:55 -!- wwwwwwwwwwwwwwww has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:09:46 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:14 how about a compromise: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/dandd2.png 12:10:28 your hair and glowy eyes, my face 12:11:14 slightly brighter eyes 12:11:47 ontoclasm: ...how about double tiles for the elf twins? 12:11:54 normal version -> mourning version 12:12:28 bh: hah, could do that 12:12:42 their eyes glow when they're both alive >.> 12:14:13 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:21 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:14:23 neat 12:14:45 nonono 12:14:54 make their eyes *start* glowing!!! 12:15:01 "You have made me very angry. Very angry indeed." 12:17:05 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 12:17:10 -!- Zahr has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:18:23 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:03 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:20:52 fr: once dowan is dead duvessa goes permaberserk 12:22:38 that would make sense actually 12:22:45 since Dowan's new spell set never goes away 12:22:56 sounds reasonable to me 12:23:01 but it would also make Duvessa a total nightmare 12:23:22