00:01:22 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15.0-14-g6bbbb5c 00:01:24 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:03:23 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03:59 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-326-g6f2d4d4 (34) 00:07:45 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:33 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:36 -!- _miek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:12:04 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15.0-14-g6bbbb5c (34) 00:16:03 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-326-g6f2d4d4 (34) 00:16:04 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:20:45 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:53 -!- moose has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:20 -!- soulfreshner has joined ##crawl-dev 00:21:41 &{ seems to break webtiles really badly 00:21:43 at least for me 00:21:57 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:01 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:32 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:24:48 if I compile different versions of crawl for hosting on a webtiles server, do I need to do a git clone for each one? 00:24:54 what’s the easiest way to do it? 00:25:07 …or at least the least wasteful 00:31:18 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:33:45 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 00:35:31 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-326-g6f2d4d4 00:38:50 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 00:39:09 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:47 -!- Ryak has quit [Quit: Don't push the red button!] 00:49:07 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:15 -!- DrKe has quit [] 00:57:52 -!- chad-neezie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:57:57 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:26 -!- Zannick has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:53 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:05:50 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:31 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140901091008]] 01:09:38 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:19:57 -!- rorriMnm1D has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:29:14 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:30:42 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:26 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 01:36:28 -!- soulfreshner has quit [Quit: soulfreshner] 01:36:49 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 01:37:28 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:38:37 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:29 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:47:41 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:48:28 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:50:34 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:55:08 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:17 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:05:52 -!- croikle has quit [Quit: croikle] 02:13:13 -!- gigantic_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:21 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15:49 -!- svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:16:02 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:17:35 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15.0-14-g6bbbb5c 02:18:42 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:19:56 -!- we is now known as u 02:24:54 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-326-g6f2d4d4 (34) 02:31:16 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 02:31:58 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446]] 02:32:28 -!- Krakhan|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:32:48 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 02:34:03 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 02:34:21 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 02:39:48 -!- soulfreshner has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:45 -!- Evablue has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:45:36 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:15 what gets stored in the ./rcs folder 02:47:33 can I use the same folder accross versions when hosting a webtiles server? 02:50:46 soulfreshner: you might want to hang out in here until amethyst or another server admin gets back 02:51:39 k, thanks johnny0 02:54:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:21 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:50 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:56:58 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:57:32 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:59:46 -!- potatolizard has joined ##crawl-dev 03:00:26 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:35 -!- u is now known as bcode 03:08:57 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:22 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:10:05 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:06 -!- ctair has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:16:19 -!- ctair_ is now known as ctair 03:16:23 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19:23 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:24 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 03:24:10 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:29:24 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:30:48 -!- schistosoma is now known as schistosomatic 03:31:39 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 03:31:59 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:11 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 03:33:49 -!- eb has quit [] 03:42:32 -!- soulfreshner has quit [Quit: soulfreshner] 03:45:02 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:23 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 04:15:04 -!- alefury has quit [] 04:17:36 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 04:20:01 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:03 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:15 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 04:29:39 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 04:46:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:14 "Re-do previous command" repeats macros in addition to the last command 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8919 by johnnyzero 04:54:02 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:05:57 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:05:59 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 05:07:04 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten.] 05:07:21 -!- Stoats has quit [Client Quit] 05:07:53 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:11:09 -!- soulfreshner has joined ##crawl-dev 05:14:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:18:58 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:26:51 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 05:27:11 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:35 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:49 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:43:23 -!- soulfreshner has quit [Quit: soulfreshner] 05:45:22 -!- __miek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:46:21 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:45 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:38 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 06:02:23 -!- endou__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:16:27 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:44 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 06:21:59 -!- Nabalzbhf2 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:24:23 -!- Nabalzbhf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:28 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 06:24:49 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 06:33:21 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:09 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35:43 fr ` isn't broken and incomprehensible 06:35:43 wheals: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 06:35:54 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:35:58 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:36:30 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:46 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:39 wheals: i thought i was getting paralyzed at first -- i guess i pretty much was though 06:42:25 there's actually something on mantis that should fix this bug, at least 06:42:37 !mantis 1876 06:42:37 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=1876 06:46:03 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 06:47:41 -!- rorriMnm1D has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:52:36 oh wow, all the way back to the 0.7 beta 06:53:53 !bug 2833 06:53:53 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=2833 06:54:02 ^^ that might be the same bug as yours, too 06:56:22 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 06:57:10 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 06:57:49 -!- Zooty_ has quit [Client Quit] 07:03:01 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:46 -!- Tolias has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:08:07 might be worth adding those to the relationships section -- i can't do that as a reporter :( 07:08:20 yes, ` has had issues forever 07:11:12 I only use it myself when using up wand charges before dropping a wand, and it works okay for that 07:11:37 <|amethyst> I usually use 0 for that 07:11:42 but I gave up on using it in any more complicated situations or with any monsters around long ago 07:11:47 <|amethyst> but I guess 0 and ` are pretty similar and probably have some similar bugs 07:11:56 <|amethyst> the thing that always screws me up 07:11:58 -!- ackack has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:04 <|amethyst> is when I do &mblah 07:12:16 |amethyst: ah, I guess 099 works even if you don't know how many charges? 07:12:21 <|amethyst> but I misspell it so then I do &m 07:12:27 I've never trusted 0 to stop if monsters appear 07:12:29 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, since it stops when it takes no time 07:12:38 <|amethyst> oh, not sure about that 07:13:07 <|amethyst> And then when I press ` to repeat (get multiple copies of the monster)... it repeats the editing of course 07:13:30 <|amethyst> so I misspell it as "kobld", then edit 07:13:42 <|amethyst> then with ` I get koboold, kobooold, koboooold, etc 07:13:47 nice 07:13:50 elliptic: don't need to drain wands anymore, either! 07:13:57 wheals: monsters don't pick them up? 07:14:07 <|amethyst> elliptic: not if you've seen them 07:14:10 maybe I should actually read the changelog sometime 07:14:14 heh 07:14:15 <|amethyst> and since you can't drain them if you haven't seen them :) 07:14:19 ??changelog 07:14:20 changelog[1/3]: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - often incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes. 07:15:07 I think the last time I started to look at this I stopped once I got to "* The Hall of Blades has been cut." because I was sad 07:15:17 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: schuft] 07:15:27 <|amethyst> I think we can't have a good ` until we have a better abstraction of what a "command" is 07:17:58 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:05 <|amethyst> and also a better idea ourselves, as far as what parameters/inputs should be included in the repeat and which should be re-prompted each time 07:18:25 <|amethyst> (and what it means for an input to be repeated) 07:21:09 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:05 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 07:22:22 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:07 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446]] 07:24:16 hm, the 0.15 draining changes look like quite a large nerf to me? 07:25:24 <|amethyst> draining brand? 07:25:27 yeah 07:25:35 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:39 <|amethyst> it's not permanent, but it triggers more often it looks like? 07:25:49 the additive boost to damage was removed 07:26:05 <|amethyst> ah 07:26:49 the HD-lowering part might be stronger now but previously a dagger of draining was actually a really good weapon early on just because of the additive boost 07:27:03 -!- Lasty_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:28:02 ??draining brand 07:28:03 draining brand[1/2]: In 0.15, 1/2 chance of doing on average 25% extra damage to susceptible monsters and applying a debuff similar to a HD reduction which is stackable, refreshable, and lasts 20-30 turns. Disliked by good gods. 07:28:07 ??draining brand[2] 07:28:07 draining brand[2/2]: This debuff lowers: damage, spellpower, accuracy, MR, and many other things related to HD. This debuff does not lower: monster max hp, your exp gain, or your piety gain. 07:28:30 I guess it is probably still better than vorpal 07:29:53 I just find it a bit hard to believe that the HD reduction does much, and previously draining was probably the second-strongest early game brand 07:30:04 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:31 (of course changing it so that it doesn't decrease xp gain is nice though) 07:31:37 anyway I might look into adding the additive damage boost back in in 0.16 after I've played a bit more with it 07:35:44 -!- radinms has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:40:17 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:42:18 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:14 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:08 hellion (042) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 602 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 07:53:08 %??hellion 07:53:12 why is this hellion green 07:55:56 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:26 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:43 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:09 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:52 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:00 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:04:10 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:45 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:20 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:24 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:09:47 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:11:58 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:37 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:04 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 08:13:27 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:37 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:16:20 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:17:16 -!- lwarc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:19:41 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 08:19:59 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:42 -!- coni has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:24:19 FishServ (L15 GrHe) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1365: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Swamp:5) 08:35:27 !crashlog 08:35:28 8174. FishServ, XL15 GrHe, T:25183 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/FishServ/crash-FishServ-20140903-132413.txt 08:41:51 -!- moose has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:43:08 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:45:11 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:34 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:51:25 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:45 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:47 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:02 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:15 -!- Stoats has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:55 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:49 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:10 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:30 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:22 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:21 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:30 -!- kober has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 24.7.0/20140723063708]] 09:15:23 -!- hauzer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17:17 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 09:17:36 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:00 -!- read has quit [Quit: bye.] 09:22:01 -!- hauzer1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:22 -!- CampinSam has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27:25 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:25 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:02 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:36:47 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:37 -!- rkd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:45:08 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:46:14 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:36 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:48:56 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:08 -!- Naruni has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:52:01 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:52:35 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56:21 -!- ystael has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:57 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:02:36 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:58 -!- Blakmane has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:03:09 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:49 elliptic: my personal design philosophy, wrt draining, is that it's better to focus on what makes it unique. it used to be a mix of multiplicative and flat effects, where the flat effects were "damage and an irrelevant, tiny chance of hd reduction"; now the flat effect is, simply, guaranteed hd reduction. possibly the balance is off; I haven't heard any complaints (though of course it's very... 10:04:50 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:04:51 ...hard for people to tell, with crawl combat!), but I'd be fine with increasing the odds of the brand firing from 50% back up to 66%, or making it drain 2 hd with every hit, or something like that - the exact numbers I don't feel strongly about. I don't really know that effects that manipulate HD are a good idea, since they're both hidden from the player & fundamentally meaningless, but as... 10:04:52 ...long as we have them, I figure we should use them to the hilt. (a draining brand which was just "did good damage against living targets and none otherwise" would not be the end of the world, but it would be a little less interesting, I think.) 10:05:34 this concludes my essay. 10:07:19 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:07:41 that would just be pain, wouldn't it? 10:07:48 well, pain depends on necro skill 10:08:01 yeah, but still 10:08:07 but yeah there's some niche competition there. 10:11:37 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:17 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:39 the real problem with hd manipulation like that is that battles rarely last long enough for it to be meaningful 10:13:50 the same reason that poison gets less useful later in the game 10:14:30 there are ways to tweak it 10:14:55 consider: an effect that instantly halved enemies' hd, on hit, would be meaningful 10:14:59 right 10:14:59 hence, there is some way to balance it 10:15:25 PleasingFungus: my objection is purely that, as I understand it, the HD reduction does not do damage to the monster 10:15:39 and...? 10:15:51 it does maxhp damage, doesn't it? 10:15:53 and that makes it far weaker earlier on than damage 10:15:58 doy: not any more, as I understand it 10:16:08 what about temporarily buffing the player in addition to HD reduction 10:16:34 I've always found it weird drain drains vital energies or whatever but they just sort of disappear 10:16:36 potatolizard: starts to feel more like vampiricism in that case 10:16:57 PleasingFungus: there are very few brands that are actually significant on weak weapons like daggers and whips early on, I'm worried that this removed one of them 10:17:08 it wouldn't necessarily have to be anything like vamp 10:17:30 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:17:51 I'm not sure about that; early on, a 1 hd decrease is much more significant 10:18:07 in what way precisely is it significant 10:18:11 what does hd decreasing actually affect 10:18:12 well 10:18:13 orc warrior (08o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 4 | HP: 17-40 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(16) | XP: 132 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:18:13 %??orc warrior 10:18:17 orc warrior (08o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-30 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(12) | XP: 67 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:18:17 %??orc warrior hd:3 10:18:25 dropping an orc warrior's damage by 75% seems pretty good 10:18:29 I see HP changing, but that doesn't happen with this draining 10:18:31 let me find the commit 10:18:44 and i don't see damage changing there 10:18:46 I know accuracy will be affected, but not significantly 10:18:49 %git 0d6a310c8a1abec3f3f013cab743f0e2ef9a1fd1 10:18:49 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-2085-g0d6a310: Make draining decrease monster attack damage 10(7 weeks ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d6a310c8a1a 10:19:05 <|amethyst> doy: monster doesn't know about it 10:19:08 no 10:19:11 monster is right 10:19:29 damage is multiplied by (current hd / max hd) 10:19:33 oh, so it *isn't* changing HD 10:19:45 <|amethyst> ah, right, and monster hd: changes max hd 10:19:48 yep 10:19:51 that just makes it even more opaque to the player IMO 10:19:55 howso? 10:19:56 <|amethyst> there's no monster spec for pre-drained 10:20:09 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:20 PleasingFungus: because it is sort of like changing HD but also does something else 10:20:24 well 10:20:26 well, i don't think this necessarily has to be transparent, "the monster gets weaker" is all they'll really need to know 10:20:31 players do not know that hd exists 10:20:34 or what it does 10:20:34 making hd more explicit seems like a bad move 10:20:36 yeah 10:20:52 so "changing hd and something else" is the same as "changing hd"; it's all completely opaque to the player 10:20:56 <|amethyst> what does polymorph use btw? 10:21:04 I forget 10:21:37 current hd 10:21:40 <|amethyst> looks like it uses get_hit_dice, so current 10:21:41 <|amethyst> yeah 10:21:57 <|amethyst> that's probably the place hit dice are most apparent to players 10:22:26 <|amethyst> or the thing that reveals the most about them 10:22:38 with shapeshifters, sure 10:22:57 PleasingFungus: anyway decreasing damage helps (it would have been nice if the changelog mentioned this :P), but I'm still skeptical 10:23:11 PleasingFungus: as I said earlier, I need to try it out more in actual play 10:23:26 gotcha 10:24:04 one thing that feels weird to me now is that draining is stronger against 3 HD monsters than against 2 HD monsters if it "proc"s more than once 10:24:17 because it multiplies damage by 1/3 rather than 1/2 10:24:21 but that's just a detail 10:24:30 yeah 10:24:32 hm 10:24:34 orc wizard (06o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-21 | AC/EV: 1/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(20) | XP: 37 | Sp: magic dart (3d4), slow, haste, blink / throw flame (3d5), confuse, invisibility, magic dart (3d4) / throw frost (3d5), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d5), magic dart (3d4), 04esc:invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:24:34 %??orc wizard 10:24:40 hm. what's a 2 hd monster 10:25:14 also I'm not sure whether decreasing the monster's base damage actually does all that much if they have a weapon? monster damage with a weapon is weird 10:25:25 depends on their weapon but generally it'll do a great deal 10:25:29 though not quite as much as you'd expect 10:25:35 green rat (09r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 5/11 | Dam: 10 | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 13 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 10:25:35 %??green rat 10:25:42 did you mean: river rat 10:25:48 -!- lukano has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:56 lemme check what orc warios start with 10:26:07 ??short sword 10:26:07 short sword[1/1]: A sword with a short, slashing blade. (Short Blade; Dam 6 Acc +4 Delay 11) 10:26:16 they usually start with bigger weapons than that 10:26:25 I'm using this as a baseline 10:26:31 orc warriors can get halberds and such 10:26:32 well that's weird but okay 10:26:39 26 -> 16 = 40% reduction. 10:26:41 ??battleaxe 10:26:41 battleaxe[1/1]: Largest common axe, 2-handed, and readily available on early orc warriors (Two-handed, Damage 15, Acc -4, Delay 17; Mindelay Skill 20). 10:26:53 35 -> 25 = 30% reduction 10:27:00 what 10:27:07 two drains 10:27:09 how are you getting 40% reduction from reducing HD from 4 to 3 10:27:10 okay 10:27:39 oh, with one drain it's 20% and 14% respectively 10:27:41 so it actually adds? I thought it was more complicated for some reason 10:27:47 I believe it just adds 10:27:50 though I'd want to double-check 10:27:54 orc (04o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(4) | XP: 3 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:27:54 %??orc 10:28:03 newdraining: not good against orcs 10:28:18 on the other hand, it probably kills them 10:28:22 why? 10:28:29 I thought newdraining didn't do anything to HD 1 10:28:29 well. they have 4-10 hp and 0 ac 10:28:35 it's more that anything kills orcs 10:28:39 uh 10:29:00 yes orcs aren't that strong but newdraining is just 12.5% extra damage against them as I understand it 10:29:11 yes 10:29:21 so a dagger of draining is quite bad against them now (though still might be enough if they don't generate with armour (they do sometimes) 10:29:22 ) 10:29:32 whereas previously it was very good 10:29:38 my argument is 10:29:44 you do not need to optimize for being good against 'orc' 10:29:44 and this is all partly because they happen to have HD 1 rather than 2 10:29:55 since, anything will kill orcs very quickly 10:30:05 they are not threats to most characters by the time they spawn 10:30:06 !lg * ckiller=orc 10:30:07 88945. Esse the Ducker (L4 VpAE), slain by an orc (a +0 whip) on D:3 on 2014-09-03 15:24:50, with 113 points after 1891 turns and 0:07:49. 10:30:12 well 10:30:17 being able to kill them more quickly is good 10:30:22 because they tend to shield orc priests 10:30:25 true 10:30:26 I think you are crazy, orcs are dangerous for any weak character 10:30:40 because they often have armour/weapon and come in groups 10:30:44 even without wizard/priest 10:30:48 yeah his point is just that previously the brand was great against an important early game monster 10:31:05 orc isn't the only early monster that draining became a lot worse against 10:31:09 (also all of this applies to kobolds/goblins/ounameit) 10:31:13 +y 10:31:20 you could make it do the flat damage in cases where it can't drain hd (because they're already at 1) 10:31:31 similar to my "horrible draining" effect (RIP) 10:32:09 that seems reasonable 10:32:17 doing nothing at hd 1 does seem weird 10:32:38 it could turn them into a zombie 10:32:46 ! 10:32:54 drainreaping 10:33:00 what happens with player draining if the player somehow gets drained to have all skills at 0 10:33:33 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:39 the game laughs at you 10:33:45 doesn't it just instantly kill the player 10:33:50 or was that exclusive to olddraining 10:33:55 I think that was old draining 10:34:16 new draining is restored faster when you have more of it, so killing a rat will give you a few skill levels back, maybe (idk what the actual numbers are) 10:34:22 anyway I do think that the change to draining is generally good and that with further polishing it will be excellent... I just think that we should keep early game balance in mind when doing this polishing 10:35:14 gotcha 10:35:48 * gammafunk mumbles about the early game balance of jiyva temple 10:36:02 owned 10:36:27 early game jiyva really doesn't play very well... I know I've said that before, but I think I can say it again given my current game :P 10:36:32 !lm . god.worship 10:36:33 927. [2014-09-01 21:45:45] circular the Cudgeler (L8 VSWn of Jiyva) became a worshipper of Jiyva on turn 5003. (Temple) 10:36:37 heh 10:36:48 nice!!! 10:36:54 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:58 as in, you'd like to see the god behave differently? 10:37:08 also n.b. that jiyva temple was accompanied by an increase in depth of non-temple jiyva altars 10:38:03 well, I'd either like to see the god/jellies behave differently (less item-eating early on, slower piety gain, etc) or see less early jiyva access 10:38:27 there is very little early jiyva access right now 10:38:33 it's very, very rare 10:38:38 that's good 10:39:04 !lm . god.maxpiety 10:39:05 360. [2014-09-01 22:03:40] circular the Basher (L10 VSWn of Jiyva) became the Champion of Jiyva on turn 8276. (D:9) 10:39:12 hrm, I guess you could run mapstat and pretty much count how often jiyva altars are generated 10:39:24 since they only place through special vaults 10:39:33 and not overflow temples 10:39:41 I do think that early jiyva gameplay might be improvable 10:39:59 with no item dest, he's almost certainly due for some kind of tweak 10:40:56 his stat shuffling was updated to not use str, but I have no idea if my change was the best possible 10:41:06 er to not use str based on inventory weight 10:41:21 still considers str based on armour worn 10:41:36 yeah, I actually looked at your changes during this game because I was getting a ton of strength... they seemed reasonable, could probably use more tweaking 10:42:15 I guess the main thing I dislike about early jiyva is that there is no real progression of abilities the way there is with other gods 10:42:45 -!- keszocze has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:43:30 which is both because piety gain is so fast and because your abilities are all at high piety 10:44:26 -!- croikle has quit [Quit: croikle] 10:44:34 this also means that jellydrop rate becomes high quickly, and it is harder to race jellies to loot earlier in the game 10:44:59 though even with low jellydrop rate, a single jelly will eat the level pretty quickly, especially with splitting 10:45:37 hm, I wonder how well it would work to make jiyva-dropped jellies temporary 10:45:57 with duration a couple hundred turns or so 10:47:09 would also help with spending a lot of time on one level leading to a ridiculous number of jellies on it 10:47:15 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:47:36 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 10:47:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:11 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140901091008]] 10:56:42 -!- markgo has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:26 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:03:29 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.] 11:03:49 -!- raskol` has quit [Changing host] 11:04:49 -!- Medra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:50 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:54 -!- wompa_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:07:01 -!- Unmovable_ has quit [Changing host] 11:08:30 -!- endou__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:30 -!- Lprsti99____ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:30 -!- Fortescue has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:31 -!- orionstein has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:31 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:31 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:31 -!- rphillips has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:32 -!- CampinSam has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:32 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:32 -!- wmbt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:33 -!- unpaidbill has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:33 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:33 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:33 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:33 -!- atSign has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:34 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:34 -!- yokelz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:34 -!- Kalma has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:34 -!- Unmovable has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:34 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:34 -!- Porost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:35 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:36 -!- Kalma_ is now known as Kalma 11:08:37 -!- endou___ is now known as endou__ 11:08:38 -!- Lprsti99_____ is now known as Lprsti99____ 11:08:48 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:02 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:02 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:32 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:13:57 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:23:22 -!- raskol` is now known as raskol 11:28:39 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 11:35:29 -!- Tedronai has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:48 cdo down? 11:38:30 nope, the ongoing connection seems to work.. just can't get to mantis & web site 11:38:35 perunasaurus (L5 HuSu) (D:3) 11:38:48 thank you Gretell 11:42:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:42:19 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:42:19 !crash 11:42:19 8175. perunasaurus, XL5 HuSu, T:2791 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.15/perunasaurus/crash-perunasaurus-20140903-163835.txt 11:42:19 hm 11:42:19 -!- Bron has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42:38 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:43:19 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:46:46 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 11:49:20 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52:56 weird, I keep killing monsters and having their weapons land on my square rather than the square that they were on (which still has the corpse etc) 11:53:06 %git stone_soup-0.15 11:53:06 07wheals02 * 0.15.0-14-g6bbbb5c: Correctly don't apply a berserk penalty when ctrl-attacking (#8882). 10(19 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6bbbb5c00833 11:53:06 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:53:10 %git stone_soup-0.15 -2 11:53:10 Could not find commit stone_soup-0.15 -2 (git returned 128) 11:55:33 I have had this happen at least twice on the current level 11:55:55 none of the recent commits in 0.15 seem like they could possibly have caused this though 11:56:17 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:59:42 would it be too much to ask just remove metamorphosis cards from plain/ornate decks 11:59:44 oh 11:59:52 maybe it is that weird jelly thing that disarms enemies 12:00:26 yeah, it was 12:00:53 I didn't realize that that effect happened when monsters hit you, not when you hit monsters 12:02:38 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15.0-14-g6bbbb5c 12:03:28 the weapons stick to your jelliness and can't get unstuck 12:04:03 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:15 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-326-g6f2d4d4 (34) 12:06:53 -!- bugman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:14:57 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:15:46 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:28 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:44 hm. just played some new nemelex. felt extremely bad. 12:18:50 might have been a bad combo, though. 12:22:01 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 12:26:58 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:27:15 that's because new nemelex is kind of bad 12:27:41 you get decks of war, which only have a handful of cards which are actually effective for killing things, and decks of escape, which are not very good for escaping 12:27:58 what the hell does e.g. dowsing do in war 12:28:13 I'm not about to spam decks before I even see things 12:28:38 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:50 there's dowsing 12:30:52 there's the one that makes rain 12:30:56 PleasingFungus: nem was my pick for horrible combos so if he's bad for these now things are truly dire 12:30:57 there's blade 12:31:17 eb_mobile: I meant more that he was bad for my combo (huvm), not that my combo was bad (not that it's particularly amazing) 12:32:23 huvm is solid yeah 12:32:44 there is some new neat stuff like illusion I'll admit that much 12:32:48 -!- Porost_ is now known as Porost 12:33:02 but generally I have to draw a ton of cards before I get anything even remotely useful 12:33:09 and eventually I'll just turn into an ice beast anyway 12:33:30 turning into an ice beast was the most useful thing nem did for me 12:33:59 I mean I can sort of understand statue form especially now that it doesn't nuke your ev 12:34:23 you get good ac, you keep your weapon and you can use items as normal (Although much slower) 12:34:58 but ice form? you lose your ac, you lose your ev, you lose your weapon and all you get in return is rF-, rC+++ and some extra hp 12:35:06 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:38 -!- Nabalzbhf2 is now known as Nabalzbhf 12:35:43 I had none of those and got a freezing brand melee attack, that was enough to kill a phantom 12:35:47 my character was not very good. 12:36:44 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:37:03 and among all that crap you still have stuff that is just silly early like (V)UTs 12:38:19 using draw one on decks of escape seems nothing short of suicidal, recently the first card swapped me in the middle of a killer bee pack and the second put walls on the nearby empty squares 12:39:02 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:21 torpor snails are pretty cool. 12:40:32 MrSkizzy (L9 OgFE) ASSERT(!crawl_state.prev_cmd_keys.empty()) in 'main.cc' at line 3749 failed. (D:6) 12:40:56 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:37 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:40 tbf, that was true with old nem too 12:49:45 re decks of escape 12:49:49 though I think it might be worse now 12:49:53 not sure 12:54:15 I don't even recall if oldnem had any decks apart from destruction/summoning/wonder 12:54:22 I guess there was dungeons or something 12:54:26 but those three were all you needed 12:55:30 now wonder is gone altogether and if you're lucky you get one destruction/summoning effect from one deck of war 12:55:34 dungeons used to be super abusable with old old nem 12:55:43 if you're lucky it's even notcrusade 12:55:53 infinite bazaars 12:55:53 or something 12:57:18 well the same was true of exp and helix and whatnot 12:57:45 I'm not sure why fixing those required making killdudes cards terrible 13:00:21 old nem had destruction, summoning, escape, and wonders 13:00:34 -!- svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:02:14 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:02:24 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:55 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:11 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:43 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:09:19 elliptic: i made some local changes to jelly disarming, so i was super scared when you said monsters' weapons kept landing on your square and thought i had made it happen for evryone or something :P 13:09:27 then i remembered i hadn't pushed them yet 13:09:39 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 13:10:10 someone on tavern pointed out something that bothered me during the new_nemelex branch, that deck of war is a mix of killdudes and things that make you better at killdudes 13:10:42 perhaps deck of battle should be gifted on its own (and removed from war), though that might lead to more inventory management again 13:11:24 hm, how up to date is the learndb 13:11:31 !source decks.cc 13:11:31 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/decks.cc;hb=HEAD 13:12:05 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:24 !learn s deck_of_war Randomly (per-card) {deck of destruction}, {deck of summoning}, or {deck of battle}. 13:12:24 deck of war[1/1]: Randomly (per-card) {deck of destruction}, {deck of summoning}, or {deck of battle}. 13:12:53 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:31 ??deck of battle 13:13:32 deck of battle[1/1]: Does not exist as an item. Cards: {potion card},{elixir card}, {metamorphosis card}, {helm card}, {blade card}, {shadow card}, {dowsing card}. 13:14:04 or move that to deck of escape; elixir, potion, shadow, dowsing (maybe?), helm, all seem moderately useful in an emergency 13:15:59 another tweak i'd like is to have just to deck tiers 13:16:08 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 13:16:33 of course if we go for a really radical reform, all this won't matter 13:16:34 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17:17 crate's old suggestion was to merge the different levels of deck 13:17:22 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:44 which would certainly reduce inventory management, and also make things less confusing w.r.t the components that interact to determine effect level 13:17:59 yes 13:18:59 plain decks are also sad since they're so worthless on non-nem characters, which IMO is a thing to discourage 13:19:03 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:17 not that legendaries are all that good either 13:20:30 oh 13:20:36 [11:15] wheals another tweak i'd like is to have just to deck tiers 13:20:46 is the missing word "merge"? 13:20:54 no, the missing letter is 'w' 13:21:07 or the missing digit is '2' 13:21:17 ah, okay 13:21:31 but having just one, and perhaps scaling power on piety more heavily sounds workable as well 13:21:39 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15.0-14-g6bbbb5c 13:21:41 one deck type with card power still random but determined by piety and evo seems doable 13:22:12 well the rolls determined by piety and evo 13:22:14 I have no strong preference between one or two 13:22:21 (types) 13:22:51 I don't really see the point of having tiers tbh 13:22:54 there's an elegance to having one, but it's sort of neat to be able to choose between expending more or less valuable resources (decks). a nice knob for players to tweak 13:23:26 -!- bugman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:53 also allowing a bit more progression while playing, and a way to make balancing slightly easier 13:23:57 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:14 but the inventory management cost...! 13:24:57 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:00 I think the summons+conj single deck plays not very well 13:25:10 one tier and we could split up decks better 13:25:54 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:01 i found it fine when it didn't turn me into a spider, personally, but i see that viewpoint as well 13:28:20 * gammafunk squishes wheals like a bug!!! 13:28:20 really depends on what vision one has for the god, i think 13:28:26 the other reason for deck tiers (which i don't know if it's still true or not) is that the more powerful effects also had the risk of being self-destructive too 13:28:48 and so using weaker decks was useful for weaker enemies so you didn't end up with a self-targeted lightning orb or something 13:28:56 well, spark card is gone (rip) 13:29:11 and even plain decks often gave fast hostile summons 13:29:17 we gave the deck of destruction to asterion 13:29:19 give, too 13:29:55 yeah, the old system, not that it was great, was to spam summons cards until crusade when that happened 13:30:10 Asterion draws a card. An illusion of Asterion comes into view. 13:30:15 now you can't do that, so you just enjoy some hostile summons 13:30:15 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:30:53 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:18 -!- stanzill has quit [Changing host] 13:31:51 also i'm not sure if someone fixed this, but the deck going away is darkgrey by default (since it uses the same message as summons poofing) 13:32:18 i guess i should fix that 13:32:29 -!- wheals has left ##crawl-dev 13:33:21 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:29 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:14 oh no, wheals just turned darkgrey! 13:34:25 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 13:39:48 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:04 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:13 -!- Twiggytwiggytwig has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 13:42:45 wheals has become etc_death 13:44:06 PleasingFungus: you know that run with the lousy slime temple? managed to find sif through a lot of mmap. Of course I had to quit in lair after a bad teleport when a fight with a yak pack went badly 13:44:14 and why did it go badly? that's right... 13:44:29 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:45:19 :) 13:45:49 stupid green w 13:47:30 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:11 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:53 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:33 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:45 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:07 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:57:50 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:56 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:00 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:14 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:22 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:01:01 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:50 -!- Utis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:03:03 -!- blabber has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:30 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:37 -!- DJSuptic has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:58 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:20 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:15:23 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:32 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:32 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 14:22:09 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:31 -!- coni has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0] 14:23:04 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:32 -!- Miauw has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:16 -!- slitherrr has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:06 are there circumstances where mobs will still pick up weapons? i saw a bardiche on the floor, had to walk away for a bit to fight things, then came back and it was no longer there even though other stuff on that space was (to rule out slurping) 14:34:06 slitherrr: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 14:34:09 !messages 14:34:09 (1/1) wya said (4d 16h 27m 40s ago): Can I join your team??? 14:35:39 i'm trying to get a convoker to summong things and see if anything on the level has it, but they seem really stingy with recall 14:37:27 I think jellies don't slurp everything in a pile in one turn, so in theory that could have happened 14:38:06 hmm possible 14:38:12 probably more likely is that there is a bug with monsters not picking up items 14:38:18 can message log be searched? 14:38:34 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 14:39:16 only goes back so far anyway, so probably moot 14:39:39 I don't think there is any way to search it in-game, I guess you can go change options to make dumps list more lines maybe 14:40:45 they'll still pick up weapons that you haven't seen yet 14:40:49 i don't know how "seen" is defined 14:40:54 -!- bugman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:25 -!- dirkdiggler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:41:26 it might be "that you've been on the same tile as" or "that you've picked up" or something 14:41:30 (it also might be a bug) 14:42:19 well, if picking up an item and then dropping it on the same square makes enemies not pick it up then that is a pretty lousy feature 14:42:51 since that would mean that optimal behavior is to manually do that with any halfway dangerous weapon early on 14:43:20 and autoexplore doesn't do this 14:43:42 sitting here with a sentinel's mark on the level, so maybe i can get whatever it is to show up 14:43:47 yeah, my guess is that it's not that 14:44:31 I think a bug with checking "player has seen this item" on a stack of items isn't that unlikely 14:45:16 alternative theory, if you only saw the bardiche at a distance: it was a mimic and something woke it up, and then it fell down a shaft 14:45:23 or are item mimics dead, I forget 14:45:29 (why aren't all mimics dead) 14:45:39 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:45 it was definitely a real item, i got attacked by it 14:45:56 attacked with it, i guess 14:46:10 slitherrr: did you see it after you killed the monster who was wielding it? 14:46:29 yeah, i X'd over to make sure it was the brand i thought i saw fly by in the messages 14:46:34 i didn't walk over it though 14:47:07 if whatever picked it up is still on this level, then it is terrible at pathing sentinel's mark 14:47:28 but i can't rule out a shapeshifter slupring it up, the messages were too far back to check for slurping noises 14:47:55 yeah, that still seems like the most likely theory if it isn't a bug 14:48:44 shafting is also possible, although with a smaller chance of likelihood i think 15:04:07 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:04 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:29 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:57 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:12:05 -!- ofna01 has quit [Quit: ofna01] 15:12:17 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:15:43 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:15:43 -!- Behavioral has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:16:45 -!- Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:49 -!- ByronJoh1son is now known as ByronJohnson 15:19:52 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:26:13 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:22 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:13 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:57 -!- atSign has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:39 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:29 -!- Tedronai has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:39:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:37 join ##crawl 15:39:43 no u 15:39:45 doh 15:41:18 welcome... ##crawl! 15:42:10 don't welcome them in here! 15:42:19 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:30 there goes the neighborhood... 15:43:24 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:45:25 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:25 wait, how did he get here from ##crawl 15:50:57 -!- svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:51:11 i don't know 15:51:18 i just get lost every now and then and here we are 15:54:49 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Client Quit] 15:58:57 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:47 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:52 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:13 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:49 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:30 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Client Quit] 16:21:33 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:20 -!- dougsko has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:23 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:22 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:19 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:43 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:31:42 -!- Krakhan has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:13 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32:39 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:34:05 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:37 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:36:56 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:29 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:21 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:56 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:56 -!- bugman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:46:12 -!- lrvs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:47:43 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:10 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:27 -!- hypermatt has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:56:37 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:56 -!- giganticus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:04 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 17:02:10 -!- dfsa has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:33 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:12:42 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:12:56 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-326-g6f2d4d4 (34) 17:19:47 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:55 -!- grillatactics has quit [Quit: grillatactics] 17:23:49 -!- kroki has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:29:32 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:31:29 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:55 -!- giganticus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:02 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:34 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:41:42 found that vault with 90-100 fruit again 17:42:28 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:42:34 you are a fruit-finder 17:42:35 !lm rchandra god.worship=fedhas 17:42:36 21. [2014-09-01 18:51:46] rchandra the Cutter (L5 HaSk of Fedhas) became a worshipper of Fedhas on turn 3257. (D:3) 17:42:43 what are you waiting for 17:42:52 would lose all those xom points 17:43:09 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:43:28 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:30 !source grunt_forest_large 17:43:32 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/lair.des;hb=HEAD#l2074 17:43:49 !log . rchandra spvm 17:43:49 No keyword 'rchandra' 17:43:56 !log . spvm 17:43:57 2. rchandra, XL18 SpVM, T:58473: http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/rchandra/morgue-rchandra-20140903-065304.txt 17:44:06 i guess i just assumed this vault had one or two items 17:44:50 -!- Leibowitz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:45:29 !calc 49 + 36 + 405 17:45:30 490 17:45:45 !calc 36.0 / 490.0 17:45:46 0.07 17:46:43 so there on average only 7% of those squares will be fruit, but there's variance 17:46:56 anyway a q:1 on it should work 17:48:10 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:25 so that vault has 36 stacks of fruit? nice 17:48:36 at most! 17:48:38 I think 17:48:46 isn't it exactly? or is something else going on 17:49:10 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:16 oh, idk, I don't know des 17:49:18 I was going off wheals 17:49:34 each ' or . has a 7% chance of being a stack of fruit 17:49:46 i don't feel like counting the number of them 17:50:07 also, a guy in the SA thread grabbed ruthless efficiency III. grwz of ash. says he grabbed three runes without potions or scrolls without difficulty before having the char "safely and humanely" disposed of (by a de annihilator). first and only person to pull it off so far 17:50:47 oh, and this is ignoring the nasty-looking shuffle 17:51:06 the one in ??black_magic is a joke in comparison, really 17:51:08 wheals: I thought "'. = 1:49 d:36 .:405" meant that exactly 49 of the '. squares are changed to 1, exactly 36 are changed to d, exactly 405 are changed to .? though that doesn't add up to the actual number of squares so maybe you are right 17:51:36 no, that would be if it were NSUBST 17:51:44 oh 17:51:47 what does the N stand for 17:51:51 because it's SUBST, those are weights instead 17:51:55 number, i guess? 17:52:08 because you specify the number 17:52:20 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:53:06 anyway I guess it is more like 15-20 piles on average then 17:53:28 I'm kind of wondering if the default fruit pile size is too large 17:53:33 we keep running into these issues... 17:53:55 -!- Zooty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:54:06 well, on average, ignoring vaults, i tried to keep the number of fruit found over a game the same 17:54:42 the real problem was that i replaced 'orange' with 'fruit' instead of 'fruit q:1' or 'fruit q:1 / fruit q:2 w:5" 17:57:04 -!- nonethou1and has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:00:33 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:00:38 speaking of things that affect fedhas balance, did corrosion changes make fedhas oklobs significantly better? I don't actually know how newcorrosion works on monsters 18:03:37 -!- grillatactics has quit [Quit: grillatactics] 18:04:56 monsters that wear armour can be corroded, which reduces their (total?) ac by 50% 18:05:01 most monsters don't wear armour 18:05:18 oh, does it not affect monster melee? 18:05:57 this seems remarkably dissimilar to how it affects players :P 18:06:51 -!- coni has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:08:58 -!- Vorhito has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:09:18 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:35 not really? 18:09:39 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:09:44 ? 18:09:45 players that don't wear armour don't get corroded by acid attacks 18:09:49 let me list the differences 18:09:53 -!- Atomikkrab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:55 oh 18:09:55 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:57 wait, what? 18:10:00 I misunderstood 18:10:05 that seems really hackish if true 18:10:09 no? 18:10:33 wait, what? 18:10:39 why can players wearing armour be corroded to -50 AC and players not wearing armour cannot be corroded at all? 18:11:07 they can't be corroded by acid attacks (though they can be corroded if they attack a jelly while using a weapon) 18:11:10 remind me to take off that robe the next time I find a jelly early and it is my only armour 18:11:11 this is consistent with the old behavior 18:11:19 on the other hand, they take massively more acid damage 18:11:22 since they have no armour 18:11:28 so they get all the extra dice 18:11:40 #octopodeunreasons 18:12:02 it seems weird that it's this binary thing 18:12:03 oh, so if I have no armour and attack a jelly with a weapon then my armour will be corroded? 18:12:04 nice 18:12:06 it's not binary 18:12:13 this makes no sense, sorry 18:12:18 this is a roughly smoothly scaling thing; you're less likely to get corroded if you have less armour on 18:12:22 but you take more acid damage 18:12:49 elliptic: the merger of weapon & armour corrosion is a Gaming Abstraction and I really think you're trying too hard wrt its Verismillitude 18:12:59 PleasingFungus: if that effects it then whyyy does corrosion affect both melee damage and AC equally 18:13:06 s/effects/affects/ 18:13:09 -!- Harkenn has joined ##crawl-dev 18:13:14 it doesn't. it's -3 slaying and -5 ac. 18:13:16 :) 18:13:23 PleasingFungus: I don't care about verisimilitude, I care about having any idea what is going on 18:13:25 and I really don't 18:13:45 (1) when you attack an acid monster (jelly etc) with a melee weapon, you may get corroded. 18:13:48 yeah, this is not how i understood it to work after playing with it 18:13:56 PleasingFungus: so if I want the yellow dracs to give me less -Slaying, I should wear less armour, got it 18:14:04 also if you want to die 18:14:05 yes 18:14:59 abstractions can be taken too far when they prevent you from understanding how the mechanic works at all 18:15:05 (2) whenever you get hit by an acid attack (jelly splash, corrosive bolt, acid spit), you may get corroded; the odds are something like (# of filled slots) / (max # of armour slots (for anyone, not for your race specifically) + 2) 18:15:07 well obviously I'm not actually going to wear less armour on a given char for this purpose, but it seems really stupid that species with fewer armour slots get less -Slaying 18:15:16 elliptic: why does that seem stupid? 18:15:32 PleasingFungus: why does the amount of armour you wear affect how effective your weapon is? 18:15:33 oh, it takes max armour slots into account? that's weird too 18:15:45 not your race's max armour slots 18:15:48 because then whether you have a shield matters differently for different species 18:15:48 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:51 oh 18:16:00 so I return to my first thing 18:16:26 which is that I don't expect that my ogres should get less -Slaying from acid attacks than my humans 18:17:05 there are two core conceits to the current corrosion mechanic. 18:17:05 PleasingFungus: what you are saying would make sense if corrosion only affected AC 18:17:25 but it doesn't (and the slaying effect is usually more relevant IME) 18:18:07 (1) when being attacked with acid, you take damage and have a chance of being corroded; having more slots filled decreases damage & increases the chance of being corroded. (base chance 0%.) 18:18:18 this is a fairly simple and intuitive mechanic. 18:18:27 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: nachtli] 18:18:27 I'm also not convinced that wearing a +0 hat is a good idea with this corrosion system, since I'm far more scared of the -slaying than the damage usually 18:18:37 PleasingFungus: what we're saying is that it is not intuitive 18:18:40 and that's not great either 18:19:03 simple and intuitive are not always the same thing 18:19:09 it isn't intuitive that wearing a +0 hat increases your chance of getting crippling -slaying bonuses, yes 18:19:20 you have to separate these things. 18:19:32 again, I would be fine with this mechanic if it wasn't linked to something that has nothing to do with how much damage you are taking 18:19:56 sorry, too many pronouns in that last sentence - can you rephrase? 18:21:08 PleasingFungus: you are saying that acid should have a lower chance of corroding players with fewer slots, but to compensate it does more damage 18:21:32 PleasingFungus: the problem I have with this is that corroding doesn't just affect how much damage the player will take in the future (which is what it would do if it just reduced AC) 18:21:52 if nemelex gets a rework at some point you might want to look at his wrath too 18:21:55 currently it's a total joke 18:22:16 instead it does something completely different also, and this different thing (-slaying) has nothing to do with the extra damage that acid deals with fewer slots 18:22:27 here is the way that I think about it. 18:22:37 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 18:22:41 being splashed with acid has a chance of applying the {{{corroded}}} status. 18:22:45 PleasingFungus: as a more concrete illustration of why this is terrible, whether to wear a +0 hat is now a nontrivial strategic decision you have to make 18:23:07 PleasingFungus: because it has the advantage that acid does a bit less damage, but the disadvantage that you get -Slaying more often 18:23:08 0.15 poison seems REALLY tame. 18:23:21 Even severe poisoning... 18:23:30 really? I've found it to be very vicious, Harkenn. 18:23:56 PleasingFungus: good mechanics don't make whether to wear a +0 hat a complicated decision (and one involving mechanics that are totally opaque to the player) 18:24:05 elliptic: at the time that you're wearing a +0 hat, I'd think the damage reduction would be pretty significant... but yeah, that's a fair criticism. 18:24:16 trying to remember how many dice it is 18:24:18 jelly (04J) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-21 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 308(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 42 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 18:24:18 %??jelly 18:24:21 ah 18:24:24 not that significant 18:24:29 I've been wearing a +0 hat in zot before 18:24:32 PleasingFungus, it feels really really insignificant. 18:24:45 !lg . s=cv 18:24:46 277 games for Harkenn: 112x 0.13-a, 61x 0.12-a, 42x 0.11, 29x 0.12, 13x 0.15, 8x 0.13, 7x 0.16-a, 5x 0.14-a 18:24:55 !hs Harkenn t 18:24:56 12. Harkenn the Imperceptible (L17 SpEn of Ashenzari), blasted by a deep elf high priest (burst of hellfire) on Elf:3 (grunt_elf_hall_diamonds) on 2014-08-31 19:22:43, with 197672 points after 59802 turns and 2:22:23. 18:25:05 !lm harkenn spider 18:25:06 17. [2014-08-31 15:20:45] Harkenn the Unseen (L17 SpEn of Ashenzari) found a gossamer rune of Zot on turn 50231. (Spider:5) 18:25:07 ohh, I bet my nick isn't mapped. 18:25:15 !lg Cryp71c|Cryptic|Delphic|Harkenn s=cv 18:25:16 3055 games for Cryp71c|Cryptic|Delphic|Harkenn: 886x 0.6-a, 845x 0.7-a, 379x 0.5, 190x 0.8-a, 132x 0.7, 130x 0.9-a, 112x 0.13-a, 104x 0.4, 95x 0.12-a, 43x 0.11, 39x 0.10-a, 35x 0.11-a, 29x 0.12, 13x 0.15, 8x 0.13, 7x 0.16-a, 5x 0.14-a, 3x 0.6 18:25:27 interesting 18:25:38 let's see. what's a good query 18:25:39 elliptic, can you speak to 0.15 poison vs the ~0.5-0.8 poison? 18:25:43 !lg * recent s=kaux 18:25:46 946998 games for * (recent): 515291x, 41253x by divine providence, 21771x a +0,+0 club, 19670x magic dart, 14847x a +0,+0 giant club, 14173x puff of flame, 9957x a +0,+0 spear, 9404x a +0,+0 halberd, 7775x a +0,+0 giant spiked club, 7752x by nerve-wracking pain, 7391x a +0,+0 flail, 6883x a +0,+0 scythe, 6256x a +0 club, 5793x a +0,+0 short sword, 5277x Shot with an arrow by a centaur, 5106x a +0,... 18:25:47 any notable differences that you're aware of? 18:25:55 Harkenn: well it got completely reworked in 0.14 18:26:05 elliptic, ok, that's it then. It feels really weak. 18:26:17 (not totally insignificant...but not the deadly menace it used to be) 18:26:21 it doesn't feel weak to me personally (maybe on par with old poison) 18:26:41 it is also *different*, in that it does its damage more quickly 18:27:06 unless you actually got dark red poison with old poison, you didn't take damage that quickly from it... it just lasted forever 18:27:40 Gotcha. thanks for the run own 18:27:41 down* 18:28:15 so this means that it ends more quickly, which might cause you to feel like it is weaker if you are used to old poison, even if it is doing comparable amounts of damage 18:28:29 !lg * t ktyp=poison 18:28:30 1310. zlionsfan the Ruinous (L3 DECj), succumbed to an adder's poison on D:2 on 2014-09-03 23:26:42, with 32 points after 1039 turns and 0:02:42. 18:28:46 !lg * t !boring / ktyp=poison 18:28:47 1310/19416 games for * (t !boring): N=1310/19416 (6.75%) 18:28:51 !lg * t0.14 !boring / ktyp=poison 18:28:53 3361/56533 games for * (t0.14 !boring): N=3361/56533 (5.95%) 18:28:54 !lg * t0.13 !boring / ktyp=poison 18:28:57 2410/44041 games for * (t0.13 !boring): N=2410/44041 (5.47%) 18:29:14 that seems to suggest that it is a bit more dangerous on average, though there could be lots of other factors too 18:29:26 and individual enemies may be weaker or stronger than they were 18:29:30 poison not being a minigame anymore is pretty excellent 18:29:36 !lg * t0.8 !boring / ktyp=poison 18:29:37 1666/29551 games for * (t0.8 !boring): N=1666/29551 (5.64%) 18:29:43 eb_mobile, minigame? 18:29:45 !lg * t0.7 !boring / ktyp=poison 18:29:47 2412/44884 games for * (t0.7 !boring): N=2412/44884 (5.37%) 18:30:00 PleasingFungus, what's that t? 18:30:04 tournament 18:30:06 Harkenn: "will you survive this poison without quaffing !cure? dare you guess????" 18:30:16 nice. 18:30:39 yeah, with old poison you often wanted to wait until you were at 1 HP to cure it 18:30:44 since you didn't know whether it would go away on its own 18:30:52 exactly 18:31:16 hrm, maybe I just got used to that being the norm...it never felt like an OOD mechanic. 18:31:29 with new poison, this information is given to you, approximately 18:31:45 elliptic: one obvious change would be to split corrosion in half; get -slay from hitting jellies, get -ac from getting hit by jellies. I'm reluctant to multiply status effects, but it would solve your specific objections, at least... 18:31:59 bbl 18:32:02 an OOD mechanic? 18:32:24 so odd it became OOD 18:32:37 PleasingFungus: I think that might be an improvement, but we can consider it more 18:32:46 kind of wish mpa was still with us 18:32:49 iirc newcorrosion was his? 18:33:44 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:47 i think that probably would be an improvement 18:33:51 would require some tweaking though 18:34:20 I do sort of like giving both effects from acid spit, but I think that if the effects are going to be combined then they shouldn't depend on armour slots 18:34:25 just have a fixed chance 18:34:34 (depending on strength of acid) 18:34:48 oh 18:34:52 this is actually how I assumed it worked :P 18:34:57 I also didn't mention that there's something really weird going on with cloaks specifically 18:35:08 there was something really weird going on with cloaks with oldcorr 18:35:10 (because it would have hurt my argument :p) 18:35:14 so this doesn't surprise me 18:35:15 yes, I think it's taken directly from that 18:35:22 let me see if I can find the function 18:36:19 I think my personal preference would be to still have the effects be combined as they currently are, but have the chance be independent of armour slots... damage can still depend on armour slots if we want 18:36:35 -!- Harkenn has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:36:56 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:37:11 it even makes some sense that you can get corroded without armour, since presumably the acid should make holes in your scales or stoneskin or whatever too 18:37:26 though the "you repair your equipment" message makes less sense 18:37:38 I am not very fond of that message 18:37:48 yes it isn't my favorite message either 18:38:07 I think I was going to replace it with 'the acid evaporates away' or 'oozes away', something like that 18:38:18 -!- uglyjohn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:38:26 'the acid covering you'...? 18:38:30 except acid doesn't work llke that 18:38:31 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:36 maybe crawl acid does 18:38:37 geekosaur: it's magic 18:38:38 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 18:38:49 took the words out of my keyboard :) 18:39:05 the amulet {inacc stlth--} costs more than 1 gold 18:39:11 how much more? 18:39:15 29 more 18:39:23 rchandra: amulet of attraction but not shouting loud attraction 18:39:24 sounds like someone is trying to rip you off 18:39:28 I advise not buying it 18:39:36 it's Plog's shop 18:39:37 also, apparently chei gives you spam when you step from time near sirens 18:39:40 PLOG 18:40:13 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten.] 18:40:37 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:37 simmarine: try it to avoid trog wrath 18:40:48 what happens? 18:40:53 you hear a lot of shouting 18:40:55 shouting? 18:40:57 i figured 18:41:08 oh, that used to cause crashes 18:41:42 -!- CatPlusPlus has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:08 it would be sort of nice if step from time wasn't implemented in such a hacky way with placing the player on the corner of the map and stuff 18:42:35 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:36 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:04 better or worse than the shop hack? 18:43:12 what is the shop hack 18:43:16 do I want to know 18:43:49 PleasingFungus: newcorr was n7's work (before he became a dev even), though he's also not with us 18:43:53 shop items are stored on the ground in the corner of the map 18:44:05 mpa did make some changes to it though 18:44:17 or were, anyway, no idea if that was fixed or not 18:44:30 nope, they still are 18:44:40 wonder if they could be implemented as stationary items.... 18:44:54 there used to be bugs where players could dig into the corner and see them 18:44:55 ah, I think that would do it; I just remember seeing his fingerprints all over it in git blame 18:45:14 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:45:19 doy: there are three different functions that check if items are in shops (at least three different functions) 18:45:20 I liked the crashes when monsters with polearms tried to attack the player in the corner of the map during step from time 18:45:21 you could have them all laid out on the ground, with a shopkeeper guarding them 18:45:25 each of them has a different implementation 18:45:44 lol 18:46:07 a dev should probably clean that up at some point. but who...? 18:46:21 i think stepping from time still crashes on tomb:3 some of the time from mummies dying 18:46:29 !crashlog * chei tomb:3 18:46:30 4. Roarke, XL27 HuAs, T:92025 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Roarke/crash-Roarke-20140429-211730.txt 18:46:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:46:33 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:46:41 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:46:45 it is sort of a miracle that stepping from time doesn't crash more than it does IMO 18:46:53 it sounds impressive that crawl is like 350k lines of code, until you realize how many different ways it has to do every single thing 18:47:22 also, the number of lines of code that are just data represented as switch statements 18:47:43 (my personal bane) 18:47:51 how large is formreform, in millimarvins 18:48:28 it's negative, sorry 18:48:32 since I added a ton of comments 18:48:41 dang, rip 18:49:01 ...this is going to be very confusing to everyone who wasn't in that one conversation several weeks ago 18:49:19 a marvin is a deletion? 18:49:45 the total net lines of code marvinpa has deleted 18:50:07 <|amethyst> a millimarvin is currently ~7.5 lines of code removed 18:50:13 mm 18:50:42 <|amethyst> (net) 18:50:58 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:51:02 where's that stat page live, again? 18:51:04 I always forget 18:51:06 so you're saying he's 18:51:08 !glasses 18:51:09 ( •_•)    ( •_•)>⌐■-■    (⌐■_■) 18:51:13 a net negative to the project 18:51:28 no. god, no. why would you say such a hostile thing? 18:51:32 rchandra, please. apologize. 18:51:40 I can't believe you'd say something so rude. 18:51:47 hm I wonder how close I am currently to being a net zero to the project 18:52:27 i thought a marvin was a 13 win streak 18:52:35 !streak marvinpa 18:52:37 MarvinPA has 4 consecutive wins (DDNe, MfIE, HEFE, SpVM) and has won their last game (VSAs). 18:52:50 (different marvin) 18:52:52 (: 18:52:52 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:54 ??lcs 18:52:55 lehudib's crystal spear[1/1]: AKA: Lehudib's Crystal Spear or just crystal spear. Level 8 Conjurations/Earth spell, found only in Book of Annihilations and randart Sif gifts. 10d22.3 at max power, theoretically, and unresistable. The strongest single target conjuration, but its range is one square less than that of Iron Shot. 18:52:55 (I know) 18:53:17 i am the second biggest active negative influence on the project, i think! 18:54:02 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:57 http://s-z.org/crawl-stats/authors.html 18:55:30 yeah, just found it 18:55:41 funny that august was once again a low point for commits :) 18:56:05 ooh my contribution is about -3 millimarvins 18:56:15 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:57:04 interesing that UTC is so common 18:57:08 i'm about -300 millimarvins 18:57:45 -!- Lightli_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:49 i guess marvinpa and galehar together is a lot of commits 18:57:50 I am -5.9 marvins 18:57:51 :( 18:58:30 -!- Evablue has quit [Quit: Evablue] 18:58:38 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:58:44 Grunt: :) 18:58:48 we need to teach you how to remove better 18:58:50 dpeg was looking for you, the other day 18:59:25 i like how the sn*rk has more net positive than the guy who did initial revision 18:59:43 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:59:59 and 4 times as much gross positive 19:00:04 gross.......... 19:00:18 actually, mre like just 2.5 times i guess 19:00:30 !send PleasingFungus a double yucky thing 19:00:30 Sending a double yucky thing to PleasingFungus. 19:00:30 ' 19:01:19 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 19:02:15 possibly you should add peterb and nlanza together though >.> 19:02:22 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:16 -!- foophykins has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:14 Grunt: is 6799 still an issue? 19:04:34 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:39 %bug 6799 19:04:39 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6799 19:04:57 No idea. 19:06:28 -!- Cryp71c_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:28 -!- Ququman_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:07:02 (huh, nat lasted a year longer than peter, apparently) 19:09:04 aight. thought you might know, since you did a bunch of dig AI revamps 19:09:17 -!- nrook_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:38 !send PleasingFungus cacodemons 19:09:39 Sending cacodemons to PleasingFungus. 19:09:49 You hear a grinding noise. 19:10:08 * PleasingFungus 's body twists and deforms! 19:10:28 who needs mutating cacodemons 19:10:43 when you could have plasma ball spitting flying tomatoes 19:10:50 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:11:38 -!- Adler is now known as NotAdler 19:11:58 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:12:10 -!- Vidiny has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:10 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 243 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Ping timeout: 243 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- Mandevil has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- Nstar has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- figging has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- ctair has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- causative has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- flowsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- ebering has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:11 -!- nrook has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:19 -!- Lightli_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:12:27 -!- nrook_ is now known as nrook 19:12:32 is it intentional that monsters can be distracted by hitting themselves? 19:12:37 (such as with bounced lightning bolt) 19:12:39 -!- ctair_ is now known as ctair 19:13:16 i don't think so but it's been around forever it feels like 19:14:52 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:17 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140808030201]] 19:15:50 I guess if it was a problem it'd be fixed by now yeah 19:16:31 silly asumption 19:16:46 -!- NotAdler has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:01 it is 19:17:03 but it's pretty obvious 19:17:16 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:34 Hey, I'm having some trouble getting crawl-tiles on my computer, is this the right place to ask? 19:19:50 I can't seem to apt-get it 19:20:57 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads ? 19:21:02 if your repo doesn't have it 19:23:59 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:18 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:24:49 -!- NotAdler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:28:18 Patashu, wheals: that has been around for a while but it does feel like a bug to me 19:29:11 -!- Godzillablitz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:29:28 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:24 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:32:12 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:32:51 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:15 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:39 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:33:43 -!- leibowitz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:38:40 -!- leibowitz has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:59 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:41:43 0.15 (CSZO Server - Web Tiles) Tournament Progress Not Updating Anymore 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8920 by godzillablitz 19:44:52 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 19:47:21 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:07 -!- Cryp71c__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:49:07 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:49:15 %whereis godzillablitz 19:49:16 GodzillaBlitz the Executioner (L21 MiBe), a worshipper of Trog, saved on D:12 on 2014-09-04 after 84777 turns. 19:49:22 !lm godzillablitz 19:49:23 558. [2014-09-03 19:03:09] GodzillaBlitz the Executioner (L19 MiBe of Trog) left the Vaults on turn 75233. (Vaults:1) 19:49:29 yeah, he just hasn't hit a milestone 19:51:40 %dump godzillablitz 19:51:41 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/GodzillaBlitz/GodzillaBlitz.txt 19:53:40 -!- ebarrett has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:39 -!- ebarrett has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:26 -!- ebarrett has joined ##crawl-dev 19:56:09 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:04 -!- ctair has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:05 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 20:01:47 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:04:21 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 20:13:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:22 -!- Amy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:17:46 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 20:18:37 -!- bcode is now known as u 20:26:54 -!- u is now known as bcode 20:30:17 -!- eb_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:30:40 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:32 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:10 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140901091008]] 20:34:19 -!- alefury has quit [] 20:34:26 -!- rchandra1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:05 -!- rchandra has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:37:09 -!- rchandra1 is now known as rchandra 20:39:09 -!- Ipsum has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:20 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 20:40:21 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:21 -!- potatolizard has quit [] 20:40:21 -!- svendre has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:28 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:45 -!- cribo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:42:42 -!- nonethou1and is now known as nonethousand 20:42:50 -!- nonethousand has quit [Changing host] 20:43:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:06 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 20:46:52 -!- fridurmus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:07 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:48:21 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:48:38 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:33 -!- Ququman_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:51 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:53:34 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:05 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56:26 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 20:58:50 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:00:45 -!- ebarrett has joined ##crawl-dev 21:01:06 -!- ofna01 has quit [Quit: ofna01] 21:05:45 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 21:09:54 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 21:13:14 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:13:23 -!- SteampunkDuck has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:57 -!- hauzer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:53 -!- raskol` is now known as raskol 21:31:39 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:48 -!- Poncheis has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:23 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 21:36:20 -!- rphillips has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:29 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:57 -!- kryft has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:28 -!- kryft has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:18 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:32 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 21:46:37 -!- __miek has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:17 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:39 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:00 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:52:33 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 21:52:52 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:54:15 -!- ebarrett has quit [Quit: I quit] 21:57:56 -!- foophykins has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:58:38 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:47 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 22:00:19 -!- ebarrett has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:57 -!- Z_LAMP has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:02 -!- Naruni has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:14:57 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446]] 22:18:13 i have a tournament suggestion 22:18:17 is this the right channel? 22:19:33 <|amethyst> probably 22:19:38 <|amethyst> elliptic is here :) 22:19:58 if a player has added himself to a clan but the leader hasn't added him yet 22:20:09 maybe there should be an indication on the tournament pages 22:20:43 so on his player page, instead of Clan: None it would be Clan: (applied to join CLAN NAME) 22:20:50 just to help with rcfile debugging? might be good, yeah 22:21:21 also helps when someone's irc name isn't the same as his player name 22:21:34 -!- Poncheis has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:44 -!- Poncheis_ is now known as Poncheis 22:21:59 I'm not likely to get around to implementing it in the next 3 days though 22:22:52 np. 22:25:30 -!- uglyjohn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:25:47 -!- amalloy is now known as amalloy_ 22:26:06 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446]] 22:26:49 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:27:41 ??roxanne 22:27:42 roxanne[1/5]: A unique earth mage who was fortunately turned into an immobile statue. Knows powerful earth conjurations and can blink you closer to her so that she can use them. 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