00:00:09 <|amethyst> that's handled only in player::hurt 00:00:12 <|amethyst> not in ouch 00:00:18 yeah 00:00:39 !source attack.cc:1108 00:00:39 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l1108 00:00:46 is where the damage is actually dealt 00:00:48 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15.0-8-gb109cf8 00:01:03 not sure what sets kill_type there 00:01:34 ah 00:01:36 the beam_type is just ignored completely for the case of player damage, though 00:01:38 which seems odd 00:02:19 The fix here would be to put a kill_type = KILLED_BY_WATER around here: 00:02:23 !source melee_attack.cc:3364 00:02:23 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/melee_attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l3364 00:02:36 -!- Kramin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:46 (long story short: I did fix this a while ago - and re-broke it with the ranged combat rework) 00:02:58 yeah, maybe - weird that nothing else in that function sets kill_type though 00:03:01 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.16-a0-305-g9782ec1 (34) 00:03:35 I introduced kill_type to begin with - it was a way to get ranged combat deaths to display properly <_< 00:04:01 i guess this issue doesn't show up elsewhere because nothing else suicides with a branded attack 00:04:09 KILLED_BY_GRUNT 00:04:18 PleasingFungus: you mean KILLED_BY_BAD_PUN 00:04:39 KILLED_BY_GRUNT, KILLED_BY_BAD_PUN = KILLED_BY_GRUNT, 00:04:53 <3 00:05:17 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:03 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:07:26 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:07:34 -!- PleasingFungus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:49 03doy02 07* 0.16-a0-306-g06b444f: set the kill_type for drowned souls properly (Grunt) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=06b444f90201 00:08:50 03doy02 07[stone_soup-0.15] * 0.15.0-9-g1a96a59: set the kill_type for drowned souls properly (Grunt) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1a96a59446b5 00:10:23 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:28 -!- PleasingFungus_ is now known as PleasingFungus 00:11:19 johnnyzero (L18 OpEn) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1365: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Snake:4) 00:11:39 splat 00:11:51 !crash 00:11:51 8168. johnnyzero, XL18 OpEn, T:57206 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/johnnyzero/crash-johnnyzero-20140830-051118.txt 00:13:45 greater naga (13N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 15 | HP: 59-103 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 27, 703(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1815 | Sp: b.venom (3d19), mystic blast (3d19), haste, poison arrow (3d22), teleport other, 04esc:teleport self | Sz: Large | Int: high. 00:13:45 %??greater naga 00:14:33 doy: want me to backup and post on mantis? 00:14:33 so it looks like a neutral greater naga was getting attacked by some other monster, and tried to teleport self to escape 00:14:38 johnny0: sure 00:16:00 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-306-g06b444f (34) 00:16:04 <|amethyst> doy: I don't think it's teleport self, because there's a beam 00:16:13 oh, hm 00:16:16 <|amethyst> oh wait 00:16:22 -!- pentax has quit [Quit: ヒーロー見参！] 00:16:32 <|amethyst> teleport self is a beam! 00:16:40 oh really 00:17:09 well, greater nagas have both teleport self and teleport other 00:17:13 so it could be either 00:17:35 <|amethyst> hm 00:17:42 <|amethyst> No symbol table info available 00:17:47 <|amethyst> and no backtrace from gdb 00:17:58 <|amethyst> !lm * crash cszo -2 00:17:59 1584/1585. [2014-08-27 14:05:45] Konquest the Archmage (L23 DECj of Vehumet) ASSERT(in bounds(mg.pos)) in 'mon-place.cc' at line 3863 failed on turn 106454. (Depths:3) 00:18:01 <|amethyst> !lm * crash cszo -2 -log 00:18:02 1584. Konquest, XL23 DECj, T:106454 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Konquest/crash-Konquest-20140827-140545.txt 00:18:50 |amethyst: corrupt stack or wrong thread? 00:18:54 <|amethyst> I guess 00:19:01 <|amethyst> not sure how that would happen 00:19:18 cflags includes -g 00:19:28 <|amethyst> and it's built with STRIP=true 00:19:46 <|amethyst> (which means don't strip, because $(STRIP) is the command it runs) 00:19:57 i had to enable tracing all threads on windows since sometimes i'd get the wrong thread after attaching 00:19:59 and it's just an assertion failure, so i wouldn't think anything would get corrupted 00:21:14 -!- xen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:24:58 <|amethyst> !lm * crash cszo 0.15 -2 -log 00:24:58 Index out of range: -2 00:25:08 <|amethyst> !lm * crash cszo v=0.15-b1 -2 -log 00:25:09 No milestones for * (crash cszo v=0.15-b1). 00:25:21 <|amethyst> !lm * crash cszo s=v 00:25:22 1585 milestones for * (crash cszo): 550x 0.12.0-a0, 329x 0.14.0-a0, 284x 0.13.0-a0, 232x 0.15.0-a0, 60x 0.12.1, 38x 0.13.0, 23x 0.11.0-b1, 21x 0.14.0, 13x 0.11.0, 8x 0.12.0-b1, 7x 0.12.2, 5x 0.15.0-b1, 3x 0.13.0-b1, 3x 0.11.1, 2x 0.14.0-b1, 2x 0.11.2, 0.15.0, 0.12.0, 0.14.1, 0.10.3, 0.16.0-a0 00:25:36 <|amethyst> !lm * crash cszo v=0.15.0-b1 -log 00:25:37 5. Konquest, XL23 DECj, T:106454 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Konquest/crash-Konquest-20140827-140545.txt 00:27:08 Bogus mc crash in Snake 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8910 by johnnyzero 00:28:11 <|amethyst> oh 00:30:10 let's see if i can get a repeat... 00:32:22 Something loses its grip on the greater naga. The greater naga appears out of thin air! 00:32:25 nope 00:32:48 somewhat strange message though 00:34:27 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.16-a0-306-g06b444f 00:35:26 <|amethyst> hm 00:35:32 <|amethyst> what I suspect happened 00:35:38 -!- Nabalzbhf has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:35:52 <|amethyst> enchantment_affect_monster called behaviour_event 00:36:23 -!- Nabalzbhf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:26 -!- Ryak has quit [Quit: Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm] 00:38:10 <|amethyst> hm 00:38:19 <|amethyst> yeah 00:38:27 <|amethyst> and that is before the call to try_enchant_monster 00:38:47 <|amethyst> but behaviour_event on a pacified monster can cause it to leave the level 00:38:57 <|amethyst> that last bit has caused several other bugs in the past 00:41:51 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:04 huh 00:42:21 chei wrath can give literally any miscast effect 00:42:30 claiming that he "adjusts the clock" 00:42:34 I'm not sure I get it 00:42:37 <|amethyst> hm 00:42:41 <|amethyst> yes, that is the crash 00:45:47 <|amethyst> zapping with an enchantment any pacified monster who is already on a stair will crash 00:45:59 <|amethyst> I'm not sure how to get a pacified monster who is already on a stair though 00:46:53 <|amethyst> but you can pacify something, wizmode xm it to a stair, then zap it with haste to get a crash 00:47:32 blink or tele could place a pacified monster onto the stairs, no? 00:47:42 or lots of other things. trample? 00:48:08 <|amethyst> yeah, possibly 00:48:19 <|amethyst> would depend on when exactly behaviour events are fired 00:49:17 xom wrath stairmove 00:49:30 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 00:49:45 chei wrath should cause you to step from time just before you kill something important 00:50:22 it tries! 00:50:54 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:52:03 -!- Sky has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:52:08 -!- debo has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:52:37 I'm not even going to mention chei's item curse wrath in this. 00:52:41 because, I mean, come on. 00:52:42 why. 00:52:52 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:53 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:22 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:05:57 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:06:38 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:12:52 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:19 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25:06 -!- DrKe has quit [] 01:25:56 -!- thedrillkeeper has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:27:12 -!- DrKe has quit [Client Quit] 01:27:55 -!- DrKe is now known as drke_ 01:28:45 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:30:10 -!- drke_ has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:43 -!- drke_ has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:25 -!- DrKe has quit [] 01:38:42 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:11 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:44:44 -!- DrKe_ has quit [] 01:45:03 -!- ontoclasm1 is now known as ontoclasm 01:46:45 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 01:48:10 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140828030205]] 01:48:56 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 01:49:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:49:30 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 01:50:54 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:51:25 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:52:51 -!- DrKe has quit [] 01:53:35 -!- DrKe_ has quit [Client Quit] 01:56:22 -!- DrKe has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:57 -!- DrKe has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:43 -!- winsbury has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:00:41 -!- drke has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:56 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 02:01:11 -!- DrKe is now known as drke 02:01:28 -!- drke is now known as DrKe 02:02:55 -!- Guest81001 has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:03:27 -!- DrKe is now known as drke 02:03:37 -!- drke is now known as Drke 02:03:54 -!- Drke is now known as DRKE 02:03:58 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:09 -!- DRKE is now known as DrKe 02:04:27 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:05:44 -!- hypermatt has quit [Client Quit] 02:06:03 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 02:06:43 -!- DrKe is now known as drke 02:06:59 -!- drke is now known as DrKe 02:07:20 -!- DrKe is now known as drke 02:07:41 -!- potatolizard is now known as POTATOLIZARd 02:08:03 -!- POTATOLIZARd is now known as potatolizard 02:08:55 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:09:08 -!- drke is now known as DrKe 02:10:51 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:15:27 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:38 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: quit] 02:16:14 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:17:13 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15.0-9-g1a96a59 02:17:32 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:17:46 -!- markgo has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:19:30 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:04 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:21:44 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:21:53 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:22 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.16-a0-306-g06b444f (34) 02:34:54 -!- irum has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:44:18 -!- Codrus has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:44:18 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 02:45:43 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:46:01 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:09 -!- Stoats has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:16 -!- soulfreshner has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:48 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:37 -!- wmbt has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:56:52 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:43 -!- wya has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:43 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:20:37 hey guess what we should bring back 03:20:43 spiny worms 03:21:22 -!- croikle has quit [Quit: croikle] 03:23:53 -!- Chris7_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:10 SpectralFremen (L11 HuFE) ASSERT(in_diamond_int(r->start)) in 'ray.cc' at line 166 failed. 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Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 05:11:12 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:16:54 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:17:41 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:22:03 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:02 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:25:38 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:26:53 no death message when killed by a drowned soul 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8912 by Sphara 05:30:01 -!- eb has quit [] 05:34:32 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 05:35:09 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:36:49 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Quit: I quit] 05:37:08 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:15 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:49:43 -!- Letchik has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 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Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 07:09:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup online now! Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 07:10:47 -!- hyperbolic is now known as elliptic 07:15:14 -!- Tedronai_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:15:24 -!- Adeon_ is now known as Adeon 07:22:45 -!- potatoli1ard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:45 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:09 -!- dgu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:10 -!- tkappleton2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:10 -!- Miauw has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:33 -!- Chris__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:57 -!- Azzkikr_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:57 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:25:17 -!- Sombrero_Mott has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:25:17 -!- djinni has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:57 -!- xnavy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:29:17 -!- eith has joined 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has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:17 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:40 -!- gareppa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:02 -!- ChongLi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:35:04 -!- ChongLi_ is now known as ChongLi 08:36:55 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:28 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:17 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:39:59 -!- Palyth has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:39:59 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:39:59 -!- tholmes has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:39:59 -!- varmin has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:40:34 -!- bcarpe211 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:40:34 -!- ByronJohnson has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:40:42 -!- mopl has quit [Client Quit] 08:46:06 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 08:46:21 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:50:08 Warn Sif followers on book destruction 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8913 by brendan 08:51:21 -!- zermako is now known as Zermako 08:56:10 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 08:56:24 -!- Kramin_ is now known as Kramin 08:58:05 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:23 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:44 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:36 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:09:58 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:23 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:09 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:11 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:14 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 09:27:36 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 09:27:52 -!- Quauru has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:30:49 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 09:30:58 -!- whiskers75 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:32:00 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:43:07 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:30 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:05 -!- johlstei_ has 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geekosaur 09:54:54 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:55:53 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0] 09:56:12 -!- rkd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:14 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:53 -!- rkd has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:08 -!- gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:05:02 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:16 -!- Elsi has quit [*.net *.split] 10:05:16 -!- herself1 has quit [*.net *.split] 10:05:16 -!- Grunt_ has quit [*.net *.split] 10:05:16 -!- whiskers75 has quit [*.net *.split] 10:06:00 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:22 -!- svendre has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:07 -!- greensna1k has joined ##crawl-dev 10:12:45 -!- Elsi has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:53 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:04 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:47 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:02 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:51 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 10:25:14 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:40 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:19 <|amethyst> is bolt::hit_funcs ever set to anything but an empty vector? 10:26:34 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:26:34 <|amethyst> I can't seem to find any code that actually pushes one 10:27:01 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:21 <|amethyst> I suspect this changed in ranged combat reform, since it used to be used for needles 10:28:21 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:54 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 10:30:14 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 10:30:23 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:08 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:42:34 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:04 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:31 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-307-g424653f: Don't crash when enchanting a pacified monster on stairs (#8910) 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=424653f77d9c 10:45:32 03|amethyst02 07[stone_soup-0.15] * 0.15.0-10-gcb20187: Don't crash when enchanting a pacified monster on stairs (#8910) 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cb2018726761 10:49:18 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:51:51 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:19 curious how apply_hit_funcs is still called quite a lot 10:54:49 hit_funcs used to be used for old ranged combat; it may still be used for unrands? 10:56:10 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:27 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:47 -!- Kadarus has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:04:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:26 how often are nemelex's choice combos chosen? 11:07:44 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:21 -!- xnavy__ is now known as xnavy 11:09:28 <|amethyst> doy: I believe it's when the previous one is won 11:09:33 ah, okay 11:09:44 <|amethyst> none of these beam callbacks are used 11:10:15 <|amethyst> not sure whether to push this to trunk (since it's just a refactor) or a branch (since it is tournament time) 11:10:49 how likely do you think it is to cause conflicts? 11:13:08 <|amethyst> depends on whether there are any more bugs in the surrounding beam code :) 11:13:27 -!- AGinsberg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:13:35 -!- oberstein has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 11:13:50 const beam.is_buggy = true; 11:14:05 (or perhaps beam::is_buggy) 11:14:50 <|amethyst> bool beam::is_buggy() { return is_buggy(); } 11:14:50 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:15:30 bool beam::is_buggier() { int *ptr = NULL; mprf("%d", &ptr); return ptr; } 11:17:08 New branch created: rip_callbacks (1 commit) 11:17:08 03|amethyst02 07[rip_callbacks] * 0.16-a0-308-g38dd323: Remove some now-unused beam callbacks. 10(18 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 109-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=38dd32388e5d 11:17:19 dang rip 11:17:20 bugg.is_bug = false 11:17:32 !send ontoclasm very buggly things 11:17:32 Sending very buggly things to ontoclasm. 11:17:35 <|amethyst> %git :/Skybugg 11:17:36 07|amethyst02 * 0.11-a0-2947-g3588bfa: Don't treat "Skybugg" and "Foobola" as buggy. 10(2 years, 1 month ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3588bfac9baa 11:17:57 -!- gareppa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:19:13 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-308-g4b60125: Brace. 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b6012558d41 11:19:51 |amethyst: sounds like we'd best brace ourselves? 11:21:13 shouldn't TSO dislike rod of swarms since it summons poisonous things? 11:21:43 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:22:27 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 11:22:46 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:09 |amethyst: I wanted to make a patch to address corpses/items in doorways (https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?p=177522#p177522); the favored suggestion seemed to be "make closing a door with items/corpses in it move all objects out of the doorway and take longer than a normal turn" 11:30:23 |amethyst: Do you see any major problems with this in principle? 11:31:30 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzwecha 11:31:53 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:59 what happens if there's nowhere for the items to go 11:32:14 squish 11:32:17 rip items 11:32:17 well there should always be, generaly speaking 11:32:26 not necessarily 11:32:28 might be into lava/deep water 11:32:33 well, depends on if you want to let items fall into lava or something 11:32:35 yeah 11:32:36 oh. yes, sorry, was assuming they didn't count 11:32:51 could give a prompt for the lava/deep water case, of course 11:33:01 <|amethyst> It's not Boatmurdered-compliant! 11:33:11 <|amethyst> then again, our butterflies don't leave corpses 11:33:15 it's funny 11:33:21 literally every time I bring this up 11:33:29 someone brings up the DF butterfly corpse story 11:33:31 There are some commits, and a hidden item is squished! 11:33:42 !send gammafunk magma floods 11:33:42 Sending magma floods to gammafunk. 11:34:30 my initial thought is that they'dall move in the dir of the door (e.g. closing a door N moves the items N), but I guess it'd have to be random? 11:34:36 clearly make closing doors on objects fling them in random directions 11:35:18 you could have a door that's N but it's a dead-end in every space aside from the player's location 11:35:32 e.g. the only place the items could move is to the player's position 11:35:59 or perhaps only the player's position and some not-N location, so I guess having all go in a consistent dir won't work, since it can't always work 11:36:13 my thought was that it would first attempt not to put items in lava/deep-water, and then attempt to push them away from the player 11:36:22 within that constraint 11:36:36 hrm, you think explicitely away from player? 11:36:53 I don't feel strongly about it, but it should try to be as predictable as possible 11:37:01 so all items in the same dir? 11:37:03 hmmm 11:37:05 toward the player, away from the player, whatever, as long as it *tries* to be consistent 11:37:08 yeah that would be good, probably 11:37:16 how much would it break to just keep the items on the same tile? 11:37:20 I was thinking each item different random dir, but that's unecessary 11:37:22 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:26 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: quit] 11:37:31 doy: you mean and let doors close over them? 11:37:34 yeah 11:37:45 I think that messes up some of crawls notions about opaque features 11:37:50 yeah 11:37:51 since shut doors are not passable 11:37:52 -!- edlothiol has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:00 or habitable, I guess 11:38:11 i'm not sure what assumptions exist for that 11:38:51 <|amethyst> for one, casting corpse rot in that situation would crash 11:39:00 heh, yeah 11:39:03 <|amethyst> because clouds can't exist inside solid features 11:39:15 ah, yeah, that would be one 11:39:21 <|amethyst> and it would render funny 11:39:35 |amethyst: it was your assessment that allowing doors to close on squares with items is unworkable in general, corpse rot aside? 11:40:02 <|amethyst> I don't think it's *unworkable*: all those things could be fixed 11:40:06 <|amethyst> but I think it's ugly 11:40:22 <|amethyst> it would be the only case where a solid feature could contain an item 11:41:14 yeah, that's about the only concern I could come up with technically, but only in the sense that some "lower level" code might rely on that assumption 11:41:29 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:38 the solution is obvious: add more such cases! ;p 11:42:00 <|amethyst> besides corpse rot, there's at least rendering (how do you show both the door and item?) and possibly apportation weirdness 11:42:01 !send Zaba a deliberate case fall-through 11:42:01 Sending a deliberate case fall-through to Zaba. 11:42:20 * Zaba falls through 11:42:30 a crueler fate I cannot imagine 11:42:56 yeah I assume in this scenario the items under a closed door would not be considered in los 11:43:10 <|amethyst> as for rendering: currently in console it would be shown as door with the "many items" brand (inverse video) 11:43:14 -!- odiv_ is now known as odiv 11:43:19 <|amethyst> no idea about tiles 11:43:46 that seems fixable 11:43:48 <|amethyst> also, if you can have a dragon corpse on the same tile as a door, why can't dragons walk through closed doors? 11:43:55 ............ 11:44:06 <|amethyst> it fits if it's dead but not if it's alive? 11:44:14 |amethyst. 11:44:14 doors are "magic"? 11:44:16 amethyst. 11:44:18 crawl realism. 11:44:19 amethyst. 11:44:21 because they can't turn the doorknob 11:44:23 clearly 11:44:32 haven't gotten that piece of advice from xtahua 11:44:41 |amethyst: I don't want to push the closing doors over items thing if you think it 11:44:45 it's a pretty bad idea 11:44:55 <|amethyst> I prefer the idea of pushing the items out of the way 11:44:56 dragons shrink on death, to be perfectly suited to being worn by whoever killed them. 11:44:58 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:00 fucked up, but true. 11:45:06 <|amethyst> if there's nowhere to go, then the door doesn't close 11:45:13 so what, you can only close doors on dragon corpses if you aren't in tree form at the time? 11:45:17 hrm, I suppose that could work, yes 11:45:48 then the question becomes, what rule for the item movement 11:46:04 -!- Leibowitz has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:19 nrook: obviously it uses your true form. obviously 11:46:23 trees can't wear armour!!! 11:46:40 <|amethyst> I see the argument for making it a fixed direction, but I don't think that's necessary 11:46:41 |amethyst: would you still prefer items being shoved out of doors if you weren't used to the current behavior? 11:47:04 I'm concerned that we're blinded by our familiarity with the current system 11:47:26 <|amethyst> I'm blinded by my familiarity with the pauli exclusion principle :P 11:47:49 physics bomb status: dropped 11:48:19 <|amethyst> Having items stuck in solid features feels like a bug 11:48:28 <|amethyst> I'd say the same thing in Wolfenstein or Doom 11:48:50 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:59 pretty sure you can put an item on an elevator that hits the ceiling in doom 11:49:00 I think all items go in the same dir, but it should probably be a random one not on the player's tile, or if none is available the door can't close 11:49:11 it doesn't feel especially odd that items would be under the door... idk, I won't fight for it. 11:49:30 I mean a rule would be nice, but it'd have to be somewhat elaborate and I'd kind of like the player not to have to know one 11:49:32 it kind of feels like "pushing items out from a door" is a really clunky way to solve the "problem" mechanically 11:49:47 <|amethyst> The problem being that you can't pick up corpses 11:49:52 <|amethyst> which is already weird mechanically 11:49:53 if the rule is now "you can close doors that have items on them", why go through all the fuss of shoving items out, rather than just letting you close the door? 11:49:57 -!- siepu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:02 it feels circuitous 11:50:08 why can you not pick up corpses, anyway 11:50:10 <|amethyst> I'd be fine with status quo 11:50:25 <|amethyst> doy: so you can't gather them all up to reanimate on the next level 11:50:31 <|amethyst> doy: now that their are no weights 11:50:35 <|amethyst> s/their/there/ 11:50:38 seems really arbitrary 11:51:13 well corpses are the single worse offender here, and I feel they alone are a case worth fixing; the item in doors thing is generally just a gameplay annoyance currently 11:51:34 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:51:37 it's a fun/dangerous interaction when fleeing from centaurs/yaktaurs through doors 11:51:45 since there's a strong chance a bolt or arrow will get stuck in the door 11:51:51 that's generally where it's relevant for me 11:52:04 tbh I've never seen a corpse get a door stuck that I actually wanted to close 11:52:17 <|amethyst> btw, vault wardens can already push items out of doors 11:52:17 it happens to me often enough 11:52:24 I think that case alone is not worth preserving to handle the annoyance of wanting to shut a door when you're resting 11:52:27 <|amethyst> so whatever happens, those should probably be changed to be consistent 11:52:31 |amethyst: you fixed 7131 a while ago, right? someone did 11:52:31 and having to pick up some stones or something 11:52:45 gammafunk: that has never happened to me 11:52:54 being in that situation 11:53:01 that's just because you never chose to shut the door 11:53:02 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: ah, yes 11:53:07 it doesn't "happen" to you 11:53:14 but it is optimal to shut that door 11:53:23 since enemies that can't open them can wander into los 11:53:25 I am not very often next to doors with stones stuck in them 11:53:37 right, stones was an example? 11:53:44 stuff gets stuck in doors 11:53:48 like corpses/armour 11:53:53 from when you were killing things 11:53:57 that were in the doorway 11:54:01 <|amethyst> %git 4ea94c40 11:54:01 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-1489-g4ea94c4: Prompt for weapon choice if preselection was bad (#8577) 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ea94c40d519 11:54:17 nice 11:54:32 how does that handle random characters? 11:56:02 03|amethyst02 07* 0.16-a0-309-g112360f: Reduce /teleport acquirement weight in Sprint. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=112360f2d25b 11:56:02 03|amethyst02 07[stone_soup-0.15] * 0.15.0-11-g6f4f891: Reduce /teleport acquirement weight in Sprint. 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f4f891ecb1f 11:56:47 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if it picks a random char who's incompatible with your preselected weapon, it will prompt you for a weapon choice 11:57:07 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: e.g. if you set weapon = spear in your rc, a random DK will get a spear, but a random Gl will prompt 11:57:25 hm 11:57:26 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: not certain about whether that's the same if the weapon = spear came from the .prf instead 11:57:34 <|amethyst> but I think so 11:57:50 ah, okay, random characters do normally get prompted for weapon choice 11:57:53 so that seems consistent & fine 11:57:58 well we don't seem to have any kind of consensus on the doors in items thing 11:58:01 <|amethyst> the inconsistency 11:58:12 <|amethyst> the inconsistency is when they *don't* get prompted, if it was a valid choice 11:58:20 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:21 <|amethyst> which might be looked at but isn't hugely important 11:58:21 don't really want to make or push a patch for that until we do 11:58:24 hmmmmm 11:58:32 ?tele can drop you on a known shaft 11:58:38 which you then immediately fall through 11:59:04 someone was saying the same happened with blink 12:00:10 <|amethyst> I wonder if a shaft/hatch can drop you on a shaft 12:00:11 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 12:00:25 I hope so 12:00:46 <|amethyst> and, if so, what's the chance that pressing > on a D:1 hatch takes you to D:$ :) 12:00:57 -!- gammafunk has left ##crawl-dev 12:01:08 "low" 12:01:23 <|amethyst> yes, but higher or lower than the number of RNG seeds? :) 12:01:28 heh 12:01:38 <|amethyst> Will have to get ais to try scumming that 12:01:45 bonus question: what are the odds that your first step will take you onto a shaft that goes all the way to d:$? 12:02:00 actually idk if traps can spawn in entry vaults 12:02:22 <|amethyst> me either, which is why I went with the less fun escape hatch hypothetical 12:02:30 heh 12:02:32 fair enough 12:02:54 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15.0-11-g6f4f891 12:03:58 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:06 <|amethyst> Grunt: I had originally wanted to name "rip_callbacks" some kind of pun on Lauren Bacall, but decided that would be in poor taste even for me 12:05:39 <|amethyst> Also, I had never realized that Blork had a Mork and Mindy reference 12:06:23 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:42 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.16-a0-309-g112360f (34) 12:06:49 -!- ebarrett has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:35 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:09 oh. |amethyst, the other day I was talking about targeting yourself with attacks being prevented with "that would be overly suicidal"? 12:09:16 <|amethyst> yes? 12:09:21 that's apparently an option, presumably enabled by default 12:09:28 <|amethyst> sometime it's an option 12:09:32 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:37 <|amethyst> some spells don't allow it even with that option 12:09:45 <|amethyst> the default for the option is "prompt" I'm pretty sure 12:09:53 <|amethyst> s/time/times/ 12:10:04 ah. could be the spell thing, then 12:10:10 I just remember getting it without touching options 12:10:12 <|amethyst> SPFLAG_NOT_SELF 12:10:27 hm 12:10:30 I wonder 12:10:45 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:39 ah, here we go, vampiric draining does it 12:11:50 -!- Kramin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:28 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:13:32 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:19 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:29 <|amethyst> The Windows .zip version lets you play out of the unpacked directory directly, right? 12:18:47 <|amethyst> does it put saves etc in that directory, too, or does it try using AppData 12:18:48 <|amethyst> ? 12:18:59 <|amethyst> or profile or whatever the installer version uses 12:19:13 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 12:19:24 <|amethyst> Someone asking about portable crawl on a USB stick here, and I don't play Crawl on Windows: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13535 12:20:03 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 12:20:23 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:44 <|amethyst> Also, despite the thing near the top about comments, there seem to be recurring problems with people not realising they have to remove the # when changing a setting 12:22:51 <|amethyst> not sure what to do about that 12:22:58 <|amethyst> other than a way to edit options in-game 12:23:00 somebody give me advice on my cool tomb idea 12:23:32 cool tomb idea: every x hundred turns you spend in tomb, you get ~cursed~ (bad mutation, only affects you in tomb). all the curses go away if you get the rune 12:24:22 currently a lot of players find tomb dry and boring, and I figure this would spice it up by encouraging going through tomb faster. (it might require tomb be made easier in another dimension tho) 12:24:46 feels like it would either cause tomb to be impossible if you wait too long (if they never wear off) or it would encourage just leaving and coming back a lot (if they do) 12:25:01 the former 12:25:12 I think it's ok if it makes tomb impossible if you play tomb really badly 12:25:42 well, "really badly" depends a lot on your character 12:25:48 if you play hell really badly, you can't do hell either (because you are dead) 12:25:59 that's different though 12:26:02 Tomb effects 12:26:03 imo 12:26:03 nrook: it is already the case that if you play tomb badly then you die 12:26:05 <_< 12:26:08 yeah, that 12:26:32 <|amethyst> well, this is a different "badly" though 12:26:35 i'm really not a fan of mechanics that make the game unwinnable without killing you 12:26:39 <|amethyst> this punishes the "conservative" kind of badly 12:26:44 (where "unwinnable" can include getting all of the runes) 12:26:52 I think the idea could work, but I'd want it to use a custom mutation list rather than just random bad mutations 12:26:58 oh yeah, definitely a custom list 12:27:03 <|amethyst> doy: what about Pan? 12:27:05 because many bad mutations are boring and/or not likely to be relevant 12:27:19 probably some existing bad mutations that are thematically tomb-ish plus some new ones 12:27:32 doy: I doubt that it will ever really be unwinnable; surely we can control that by capping the number of curse mutations if necessary 12:28:10 doy: it doesn't seem like that should be more of a concern than running out of permafood making things impossible is a concern 12:28:12 <|amethyst> or letting some god (for example) remove them 12:28:29 conceivably somebody could wind up trying to become uber-powerful by doing multiple zigs so they can overcome the tomb curses they've built up 12:28:36 but, I don't think that's a big factor 12:29:00 nrook: anyway I think the problem with this will be coming up with a good list of curses 12:29:02 could have kiku somehow remove or alleviate them, since tomb and kiku are already associated 12:29:27 |amethyst: i'm not a huge fan of the way pan works in that respect either, but i'm not really sure of a good way to improve it 12:30:01 i wonder if this would be more interesting if the tomb curses didn't become deactivated outside of the tomb 12:30:13 hmm 12:30:14 <|amethyst> I kind of think it's fine if you can, with sufficient warning from the game, make at most 12 runes inaccessible 12:30:17 doy: no, that would just make everyone do tomb as their last rune 12:30:32 elliptic: don't they already? 12:30:35 no? 12:30:43 I wouldn't want to punish new players too harshly for wandering into tomb for no reason 12:30:46 !lm * recent rune=golden s=urune 12:30:47 2309 milestones for * (recent rune=golden): 663x 5, 412x 15, 344x 6, 343x 4, 145x 11, 117x 3, 77x 10, 51x 14, 44x 7, 35x 8, 27x 9, 24x 13, 16x 12, 11x 2 12:30:49 doy: ^ 12:30:51 then running away when they figure out that it is, in fact, tomb 12:31:03 i suppose 12:31:12 <|amethyst> !lm * recent rune=golden urune<7 s=race 12:31:12 1478 milestones for * (recent rune=golden urune<7): 270x Gargoyle, 132x Demonspawn, 116x Deep Elf, 105x Minotaur, 70x Vine Stalker, 66x Hill Orc, 53x Spriggan, 51x Mummy, 50x Ogre, 50x High Elf, 46x Octopode, 44x Naga, 42x Lava Orc, 38x Merfolk, 37x Formicid, 34x Vampire, 33x Centaur, 29x Tengu, 28x Felid, 26x Ghoul, 23x Human, 21x Deep Dwarf, 21x Demigod, 15x Troll, 13x Halfling, 12x Kobold, 9x R... 12:31:16 <|amethyst> !lm * recent rune=golden urune>=7 s=race 12:31:17 831 milestones for * (recent rune=golden urune>=7): 152x Gargoyle, 123x Minotaur, 70x Demonspawn, 58x Vine Stalker, 50x Deep Elf, 35x Hill Orc, 33x Deep Dwarf, 33x Ogre, 28x Naga, 27x High Elf, 23x Octopode, 21x Centaur, 20x Formicid, 17x Lava Orc, 16x Troll, 16x Tengu, 16x Merfolk, 16x Spriggan, 12x Felid, 11x Human, 11x Demigod, 8x Kobold, 6x Djinni, 6x Halfling, 4x White Draconian, 4x Grey Drac... 12:31:25 <|amethyst> !lm * recent rune=golden urune=15 s=race 12:31:26 412 milestones for * (recent rune=golden urune=15): 80x Minotaur, 66x Gargoyle, 29x Vine Stalker, 26x Demonspawn, 24x Deep Dwarf, 21x Deep Elf, 17x Hill Orc, 16x Ogre, 15x Naga, 13x High Elf, 11x Troll, 10x Formicid, 10x Centaur, 10x Octopode, 7x Tengu, 7x Felid, 6x Merfolk, 6x Demigod, 5x Spriggan, 5x Djinni, 5x Lava Orc, 3x Kobold, 3x Halfling, 3x Human, 3x Grey Draconian, 2x White Draconian, 2x... 12:31:30 goofy bonus: can have the guaranteed first curse, laid upon you when you first enter tomb, be -cTele, to explain the mechanic 12:31:36 evolving perma-petrified plants does not change tile 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8914 by ackack 12:31:36 -!- markgo` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:36 i guess it's less scary for gargoyles and tso worshippers 12:31:50 <|amethyst> kiku too 12:31:59 tomb isn't that scary for a lot of people if you know what you are doing 12:31:59 yeah 12:32:22 (if you don't know what you are doing, you are 50% to die to the sphinx pack on tomb:1) 12:32:29 heh, yeah 12:32:48 if people think this is a good idea, I could put up a wiki article for curse ideas 12:33:01 hmmm 12:33:18 I would plan on implementing it myself, since I'm the one passionate about the idea 12:33:18 maybe this could be tied to mummy death curses instead of time 12:33:35 that would differentiate it more from hell, at least 12:33:44 and mummy death curses need a rework as it is 12:34:02 doy: that would just encourage not killing things though 12:34:42 elliptic: i think the monsters are dangerous enough that you'll need to kill most of them though? 12:34:54 you'd have to curse the player even if their allies killed mummies, at least 12:35:00 nrook: yeah, sure 12:35:00 well almost nobody has to kill the tomb:1 long hallway of mummies 12:35:08 nrook: that is already the case, of course 12:35:29 <|amethyst> yeah, that was fixed quite recently 12:35:33 oh cool 12:35:35 <|amethyst> s/fixed/changed/ 12:35:38 oh, interesting 12:35:43 didn't know about that 12:35:45 -!- aves has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:35:47 the commit message was kind of inflammatory 12:36:00 ironically, for mummies 12:36:06 "Removed the dumb stupid mechanic liked only by bad people"? 12:36:36 <|amethyst> "it's an indisputable improvement in gameplay"? 12:37:01 lotta people got mad at that line, yeah 12:37:14 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:22 <|amethyst> Well, that line *is* false 12:37:33 <|amethyst> it's an improvement, but it's not indisputable :) 12:38:02 <|amethyst> %git 3fa685d 12:38:02 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-1528-g3fa685d: Make mummies killed by summons curse the player. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3fa685d7ae81 12:38:39 It is a little redundant that the tomb curses would encourage speedrunning tomb, while hell effects do the same for hell. but I think tying them to mummy deaths would encourage silly game patterns like waiting on tomb:1 until you get a random teleport to the 2nd part of the level 12:39:40 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:39:50 waiting around while you get tormented and smited? 12:39:53 nrook: s/tomb:1/tomb:2/ 12:39:59 but yes 12:40:13 anyway, don't people already do that, apparently? 12:40:41 sometimes, yes, when they don't feel like killing 15 more greater mummies on tomb:1 to get to the right stairs 12:41:05 if death curses made tomb:3 harder, people would always do this 12:41:28 they might also do it if spending the time to kill all those mummies made tomb:3 harder tho 12:41:29 (and then possibly go back to tomb:1 after doing tomb:3 for the xp) 12:41:45 not sure how long it generally takes to get a good tele on tomb:2 12:41:45 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:46 -!- genghis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:41:47 nrook: that is true 12:42:15 good tele on tomb:2 is somewhere between 10-20% chance I think 12:42:22 that sounds about right 12:42:43 you can probably safely assume anyone doing tomb has a free source of evocable tele too 12:42:44 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:51 this is pretty dangerous if you haven't cleared the main room of tomb:2 first 12:42:55 <|amethyst> re new curse mutations: some (not all) of the Ru mutations might make sense 12:43:01 <|amethyst> Your hand withers away! 12:43:04 that's not a great assumption, but tomb:2 generates teleport traps esssentially always (unless that changed) 12:43:32 but if you do clear that first, it is just a matter of teleporting several times 12:43:33 <|amethyst> I guess those are in general too game-changing though 12:45:03 |amethyst: is there a list of current ru sacrifice effects somewhere? 12:46:49 <|amethyst> nrook: search for MUTFLAG_RU in: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mutation-data.h;hb=iashol 12:47:33 <|amethyst> some of them actually zero out skills, though 12:47:41 <|amethyst> which wouldn't be good for a removable mutation 12:48:13 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:54 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:12 and even without the technical challenges, which are probably doable, it would be overly harsh to zero-out the primary way a character is effective 12:50:37 it's okay if a curse punishes some characters significantly more than others, but something like "no summons" is overly mean to the guy with summoning 27 and everything else 10 12:51:23 <|amethyst> yeah 12:52:19 The Curse of Anti-Gammafunk 12:52:45 <|amethyst> MUT_DEVTEAM "You are now hated by all." 12:52:53 hahaha 12:53:02 what do people think about swapping g and G 12:53:14 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:53:31 (why do we need two keys for "pick up") 12:53:36 oh 12:53:37 what does G do 12:53:42 travel 12:53:44 <|amethyst> doy: If you're going to do that, I'd just remove the second binding for pickup 12:53:44 oh right 12:53:47 as someone who still uses ctrl+g to travel I think 12:53:58 I always use g to pickup items and G to travel 12:54:07 so I think that would annoy me and I am not sure what the benefit is? 12:54:29 the benefit is that g is easier to type than G, and , works for pickup 12:54:31 but yeah 12:54:31 <|amethyst> letting you travel with one fewer keystroke 12:54:45 , is annoying to hit, though 12:54:50 all the way over in the corner 12:54:59 also, pretty damn unintuitive 12:55:03 'g' is for get, comma is for 12:55:05 uh 12:55:06 uh 12:55:19 i guess it depends on whether you started with nethack or not 12:55:21 the comma is shaped like an arm reaching down to pick something up, duh 12:55:21 (: 12:55:34 imho 12:55:41 it is a bad assumption that crawl players started out with nethack 12:55:51 obviously biased here, but 12:55:55 regardless 12:55:57 <|amethyst> not just nethack 12:56:00 <|amethyst> angband does it too 12:56:06 huh. I don't remember that at all 12:56:06 unshifted characters are easier to type than shifted characters 12:56:09 and i played angband for years 12:56:16 <|amethyst> , is "stay still (with pickup)" 12:56:23 doy: I'd be fine with moving G to , 12:56:28 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:28 and it seems like a waste to have two unshifted characters that do the same thing 12:56:38 which solves both of your complaints 12:56:58 I guess that also loses you the mnemonic, tho 12:56:58 hm 12:57:02 (G is for Go, obv) 12:57:06 yeah 12:57:17 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:57:23 <|amethyst> also not sure why G and ^G need to both exist 12:57:29 what does ^G do 12:57:32 it does G 12:57:32 <|amethyst> same thing as G 12:57:37 <|amethyst> {CONTROL('G'), CMD_INTERLEVEL_TRAVEL}, 12:57:37 <|amethyst> {'G', CMD_INTERLEVEL_TRAVEL}, 12:57:43 weird 12:58:14 also while we're on the topic, why are W/T different from P/R 12:59:11 so you don't list all the jewellery in your inventory when trying to put on armour, and vice versa, probably 12:59:20 <|amethyst> doy: the best justification I've heard is...what PF said 12:59:26 I suggested merging them a bit back but that was the counterargument 12:59:35 why is jewellery any different from armour though 12:59:37 <|amethyst> I think T/R could still be merged though 12:59:38 so I can't accidentally take off my armor when switching rings and die horribly 12:59:50 <|amethyst> ah 13:00:12 <|amethyst> yeah, the huge difference in time to do the actions is another reason 13:00:15 it'll only waste one turn in most circumstances. still bad but not awful 13:00:24 |amethyst: that was removed though, wasn't it? 13:00:26 since it prompts "are you sure you want to keep switching" in most combat situations 13:00:32 <|amethyst> ah, right 13:00:37 doy: the difference between taking off armour & taking off rings 13:00:44 the difference between taking off different types of armour was removed 13:00:56 how much time does taking off armour take? 13:01:04 5 turns 13:01:09 ah, okay 13:03:29 i guess we also have s vs . 13:03:39 -!- Sky has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:03:43 but those i kind of use interchangably 13:03:56 <|amethyst> hm 13:04:01 whereas i never use g to pick things up 13:04:02 <|amethyst> there may be some difference? 13:04:02 not sure why 13:04:25 <|amethyst> s is CMD_WAIT and 5 is CMD_MOVE_NOWHERE 13:04:28 <|amethyst> err 13:04:33 <|amethyst> . is CMD_MOVE_NOWHERE rather 13:04:49 that's odd 13:04:54 i'm fairly sure they are equivalent 13:05:04 <|amethyst> probably, checking 13:05:37 <|amethyst> yeah 13:05:47 <|amethyst> AFAICT everything that checks for one checks for the other as well 13:06:50 yeah 13:06:54 that's what i'm seeing 13:15:43 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:15:50 Stable (0.15) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15.0-11-g6f4f891 13:16:35 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:40 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 13:18:00 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:13 <|amethyst> Mac version uploaded 13:19:18 nice 13:19:35 <|amethyst> just 0.15 13:20:04 <|amethyst> (actually 0.15.0-8; I guess frogor didn't see much point in leaving out bugfixes :) 13:20:11 dang. mac supremacy 13:21:02 added tomb curses to the wiki; write down any cool tomb curse ideas if you think of any: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:brainstorm:dungeon:branch:tomb 13:21:30 * PleasingFungus curses nrook! 13:21:39 oh noooooo 13:24:26 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:24:32 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:26:03 Ashenzari absorbs the curse. 13:27:08 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:30 -!- Miauw has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:28:46 -!- bcode has quit [Quit: brb, switching server] 13:29:20 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:29 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:32 god wrath descriptions are done, hooray! 13:33:37 now to wait two weeks before merging 13:35:11 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:21 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: is there any real code change? 13:36:13 <|amethyst> I guess maybe you had to make things scrollable that weren't before? 13:36:42 <|amethyst> because if the risk is low, that sounds like something that should go into 0.15.1 13:36:43 hold on, I'll push it 13:36:52 to a branch 13:37:01 there are nontrivial code changes, since it's a new page 13:37:05 <|amethyst> aha 13:37:38 <|amethyst> well, then it should get some trunk testing after the tournament and go into 0.15.2 :) 13:37:52 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:37:58 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:37:58 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:38:05 what's the schedule for 0.15.1 13:38:13 "after the tournament", last I heard 13:38:19 new branch up; I'm out 13:38:21 will be back 13:38:22 <|amethyst> I imagine right after the tournament, since we've already got several fixes 13:38:33 New branch created: wrathdesc (9 commits) 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-310-g47e4c69: Pull god description functions into a new file 10(4 days ago, 10 files, 1066+ 1029-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=47e4c694ddc6 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-311-g935ebad: Pull gozag branch bribability adjectives into an array 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 17+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=935ebad91035 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-312-gbc6cbd8: More _describe_branch_bribability refactoring 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 23+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bc6cbd8e1e5e 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-313-g74c5b3d: Pull god-description toggle code into a common function 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 28+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74c5b3d208b9 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-314-g685d336: Pull god irritation descriptions into a function 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 38+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=685d336f83f6 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-315-g070a1d1: More god description refactoring 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 226+ 221-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=070a1d1f79a1 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-316-g0fe53e1: Improve description of TSO's rN 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0fe53e13d9b4 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-317-g13db3a0: Pull god misc info out of _detailed_god_description() 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 91+ 74-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13db3a09d6de 13:38:34 03PleasingFungus02 07[wrathdesc] * 0.16-a0-318-g066e4bc: Add god wrath descriptions 10(3 days ago, 3 files, 977+ 540-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=066e4bc68d35 13:38:44 <|amethyst> ??cheipoke 13:38:44 * Grunt pushes PleasingFungus. 13:38:44 cheipoke[1/1]: http://s-z.org/cgi-bin/cheipoke 13:38:44 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140828030205]] 13:42:23 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:25 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:06 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:49 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:46:15 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 13:50:01 -!- greensna1k has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:50:49 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:26 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:38 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:57:14 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:23 -!- LexAckson has left ##crawl-dev 13:57:44 -!- rkd has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:57 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:25 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:58 !lg won qw 14:04:59 No keyword 'qw' 14:05:07 !lg qw won 14:05:07 3. qw the Conqueror (L27 GrBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-04-24 08:38:00, with 1844101 points after 62023 turns and 0:50:18. 14:07:52 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:12:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:15:16 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 14:15:38 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:23:04 Slain by a white ugly thing (31 damage) 14:23:05 kaboom 14:23:34 nice 14:23:47 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:40 \ 14:32:19 / 14:33:27 -!- Time_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:41 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:54 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 14:37:57 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:03 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:52 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:43:06 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 14:45:26 -!- amalloy_ is now known as amalloy 14:46:35 -!- Wanderer_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:45 -!- stanzwecha is now known as stanzill 14:51:24 -!- espressodan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:33 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:47 -!- Haxy has quit [Quit: See ya guys later ;)] 14:56:01 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:56:27 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:57:09 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 14:58:57 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:17 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:44 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:27 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 15:15:12 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:58 -!- Reverie has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:00 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:16:29 -!- Redz has left ##crawl-dev 15:21:42 -!- denvon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:22:24 -!- denvon has quit [Client Quit] 15:22:58 -!- Reverie has left ##crawl-dev 15:23:06 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:44 -!- Mu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:12 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:07 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:15 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 15:39:33 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:42 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:02 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:44:13 there's no mention of the tournament in the ##crawl topic. 15:44:45 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:09 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:52 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:46:50 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzwecha 15:51:53 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:22 -!- Rotatell has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:23 johnstein: cbro may need some poking, it booted me and I can't connect on console or web 15:53:04 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:55 -!- Sharkman1231_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:54:02 -!- |amethyst changed the topic of ##crawl to: Play the Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup tournament online now! Type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??cbro for instructions, http://dobrazupa.org/tournament/0.15/ for the tournament. | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: http://termcast.develz.org - ??footv for instructions | See also ##crawl-offtopic 15:54:25 ty |amethyst 15:54:32 <|amethyst> thank you 15:54:38 <|amethyst> I must go now, later 15:57:16 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:04 ah good, it recovered 16:01:00 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:58 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 16:03:42 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:06 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:52 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:16 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 16:10:44 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 16:15:20 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:14 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:18:53 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:05 -!- soulfreshner has quit [Quit: soulfreshner] 16:22:58 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:09 uhhhh 16:23:23 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:24:44 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:25:18 I'm still bringing this new system up to speed, but I'm getting some weird compile errors from latest trunk. http://lpaste.net/2216598515130302464 16:26:01 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:26:20 -!- CrazyArbalest_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:26:34 * geekosaur installing gcc 4.9 to try there 16:26:51 having failed with both macports clang 3.5 and xcode's clang with the same errors 16:32:08 -!- Earlo is now known as Earlobe 16:32:12 -!- Earlobe is now known as Earlo 16:39:37 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:28 -!- hauzer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:39 -!- Earlo has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:35 same errors with gcc 16:49:21 whoops, no, forgot to select it so I was getting apple's wrapper. gcc 4.9 seems to work 16:49:40 so something that changed in the past 2 days broke clang pretty thoroughly :( 16:51:36 clearly the bug is that gcc is the default compiler used, thus making issues like this undetectable 16:53:25 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 16:54:37 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:38 -!- gutt_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:25 rchandra: seems to load up for me 16:59:21 it recovered, thanks 16:59:33 rotatell vanished for a bit and returned 17:02:18 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:02:54 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:34 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:45 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:08:26 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 17:10:42 -!- aves has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:11:16 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:12:00 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.16-a0-309-g112360f (34) 17:12:02 ramnode said they might need to reboot the servers 17:15:23 -!- Pluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:30 -!- raskol has quit [Changing host] 17:18:58 -!- Sharkman1231 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:19:29 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:21 -!- soulfreshner has quit [Quit: soulfreshner] 17:22:21 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:25 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:26:12 -!- Ratboiler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:26:47 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:49 -!- Nabalzbhf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:56 -!- Nabalzbhf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:17 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:24 -!- ilyak has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:30:33 -!- buki has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:34 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:30:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:35:18 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:36:12 -!- Frank2368 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:39:57 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:42:25 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:46:46 -!- xen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:48:57 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:47 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:59:32 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Killed by a kitten.] 18:00:11 -!- siepu has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:31 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:31 -!- Sharkman1231_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:36 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:46 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:10:05 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:19 why do we top out poison magic with p.arrow? 18:10:25 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:59 because everything lategame is poison resistant/immune anyway 18:11:04 Is your question "why does poison arrow exist", or "why aren't there more powerful poison spells than poison arrow"? 18:12:36 PF: the latter 18:12:46 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:12:47 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:59 talking with some tileschat folk, I was thinking maybe we could expand poison into poison/acid and have higher level spells 18:13:05 Lots of people have suggested that, yes. 18:13:09 I'm personally strongly opposed to the idea. 18:13:44 ?que? 18:13:44 Poison magic is interesting as a school that's powerful in the early game, but falls off later; that's a design space that isn't explored otherwise. 18:13:59 If you just make it "the school that's powerful early-game, and also powerful late-game", then it's... 18:14:10 -!- Kolbur has left ##crawl-dev 18:14:15 A recolor of conjurations or fire magic, basically. 18:14:54 this seems to come up once every few months. 18:15:40 -!- zercules has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:16:53 i also think having acid be (relatively) rare is interesting 18:16:59 yeah, I see poison magic lacking higher-level spells as a good thing to distinguish it from the four elemental schools 18:17:52 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21:27 -!- xen has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:22:42 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:23:50 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 18:24:46 -!- namelastname112 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25:15 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:32 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:03 hm. opinion: the game should not print "ouch" if you are not actually injured 18:28:09 when does it do that? 18:28:32 when you walk into a wall while confused, I think? 18:28:37 yep 18:28:37 ah, right 18:28:43 yeah, i'll agree with that 18:28:48 anyway I agree 18:29:46 "Oops!" or "*bonk*" or ... 18:30:17 those are cute, but share the basic problem of not explaining to the player what actually happened 18:30:29 commit inbound 18:31:55 just "You bump into the ." or some such? 18:32:08 yep 18:32:26 except I forgot to do %s instead of wall, because my brain is off. fixing 18:32:49 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:33:16 hm. you bump into the deep water? 18:33:23 wait, I guess you drown then 18:33:25 so that works 18:34:43 hmmm, what was the reasoning behind removing sickness as a status 18:35:02 doy: annoying to rest off 18:35:10 so is corrosion 18:35:15 doy: and had very little tactical effect during combat 18:35:31 -!- syllogism has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:31 i'm not sure i agree, komodo dragons were noticeably dangerous 18:35:32 ancient zyme (03x) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 38-65 | AC/EV: 6/6 | Dam: 1605(drain strength), 1605(drain dexterity) | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(53), 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 327 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 18:35:32 %??ancient zyme 18:35:39 doy: not because of sickness 18:35:41 doy: komodo dragons were dangerous because they did huge damage 18:35:41 they are dangerous because they hit you 18:35:44 not due to sick 18:35:49 now they hit you even more 18:35:53 komodo dragon (04l) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 8 | HP: 28-59 | AC/EV: 7/8 | Dam: 3007(disease) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(32), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 313 | Sz: Large | Int: reptile. 18:35:53 %0.14?komodo dragon 18:35:58 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 205 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 18:35:58 %??yak 18:36:04 elephant (03Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 52-80 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 2007(trample), 5 | Res: 06magic(60), 12drown | XP: 482 | Sz: Giant | Int: animal. 18:36:04 %??elephant 18:36:06 komodo dragon (04l) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 8 | HP: 30-57 | AC/EV: 7/8 | Dam: 34 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(32), 12drown | XP: 362 | Sz: Large | Int: reptile. 18:36:06 %??komodo dragon 18:36:10 doy: usual regen rates are like 0.3 HP a turn, so think of sickness as like poison that only ever does 0.3 damage a turn 18:36:28 that's what it was, just under a different name 18:36:30 that's about the rate of normal poison, isn't it? 18:36:40 not any more 18:36:56 well maybe very weak poison still is like that 18:37:16 but why do we need two weak poison effects under different names? 18:37:19 poison can also kill you directly 18:37:23 sickness, no 18:38:52 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-310-ge8fa1a4: Improve confusing confusion movement messages (1173) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e8fa1a4c4a0d 18:39:41 -!- Codrus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:51 PleasingFungus: you left a "wall" there 18:39:52 -!- stanzwecha is now known as stanzill 18:40:01 for digging formicids 18:40:10 probably should be %s'd too :) 18:40:11 shrug, i'm okay with "effectively equivalent" mechanics if they actually do work differently, since it expands where they can be used (in a flavor sense) 18:40:16 oops 18:40:37 but i'm also don't have strong opinions about this one in particular 18:40:38 doy: but it is equivalent to the worst part of poison 18:41:02 the part of poison at the end when it is so weak that it isn't really doing anything but hasn't ended yet 18:41:14 and we just changed the poison system in 0.14 to try to address this 18:42:25 I will agree that there is some gain from the increased effect against trolls and chars with regen spell, but I don't think it is worth it 18:42:46 could make it have an effect on other sources of healing too 18:42:48 but shrug 18:43:43 that might work I guess, though it would still need some changes from old sickness re: resting off 18:43:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.16-a0-311-gfc68e25: Wall -> (elliptic) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc68e250fe8b 18:44:00 since the problem with resting off old sickness was that it took forever and came in multiple stages 18:44:14 yeah, i think giving it a timeout similar to corrosion would be fine 18:44:20 yeah 18:44:27 the "lasting forever" part was mostly for the effects it had on chunk eating 18:44:41 are we talking about sickness or nausea? 18:44:44 well 18:44:44 sickness 18:44:46 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:44:46 back in the day 18:44:51 they used to be the same thing 18:44:58 plausible. 18:45:06 well, sickness never stopped you from eating more 18:45:22 it is again worth noting that sickness is still in the game and still used by a monster. 18:45:48 oh right, zymes 18:45:51 heh, fire crabs are pretty serious 18:46:20 ancient zymes work decently, because finding a safe place to rest in the abyss is not necessarily trivial. 18:46:45 I often find myself using !cure on the sickness they give, which is not something I did back when komodos gave it. 18:50:19 -!- RodericNull has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:52:27 -!- Mu_ has quit [Quit: Defecator, may everything turn out okay so that you can leave this place.] 18:52:45 -!- Siegurt has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:28 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:58:06 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:58:14 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140829030204]] 18:59:59 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:02:25 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:29 http://bpaste.net/show/e9c10a1c0f4e 19:07:34 basket of spiders crash 19:08:01 I don't have time to look at it right now but if anyone is interested... 19:19:08 -!- lrvs has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:22:07 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 19:26:45 -!- andrewhl has quit [Quit: andrewhl] 19:27:36 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:07 -!- morphix0 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:17 -!- Tolias has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:33:15 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 19:33:23 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 19:34:07 -!- espressodan has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:24 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:40 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 19:41:19 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:30 !seen PleasingFungus 19:41:30 I last saw PleasingFungus at Sat Aug 30 23:58:14 2014 UTC (43m 16s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140829030204]'. 19:42:09 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:42:43 -!- Blazinghand_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:49 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: au rev] 19:43:42 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:50:12 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:21 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:23 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:35 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:14 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:28 -!- espressodan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:38 !won radulae t 20:00:38 wheals: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 20:00:39 radulae (t) has won once in 92 games (1.09%): 1xVSGl 20:00:51 !messages 20:00:51 (1/3) reaverb said (23h 38m 20s ago): I noticed that I'm listed as "reaverb" in our # TEAMMEMBERS line. I play under "reaver" so I'm not showing up in your clan. (Yes this is confusing and weird, reaver was my original nick but I changed it so I could register on freenode.) http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.15/wheals.rc 20:00:51 !messages 20:00:52 (1/2) johnstein said (21h 32m 36s ago): thanks for the heads up on inotify. I can never remember to restart it after new versions are installed 20:00:53 !messages 20:00:53 (1/1) siepu said (13h 35m 58s ago): why remove wizard hats :( 20:01:03 wow 20:01:16 someone got angry at me for my very first path ever <3 20:01:21 patch, rather 20:01:43 -!- espressodan has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:53 <|amethyst> Also, despite the thing near the top about comments, there seem to be recurring problems with people not realising they have to remove the # when changing a setting <|amethyst> not sure what to do about that 20:04:38 i'd repeat the best thing would be to just mostly blank the default init.txt, except for some help about how to write options, and direct people to options_guide.txt 20:04:45 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:31 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:04 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:43 -!- andrewhl has quit [Quit: andrewhl] 20:10:50 wheals: that sounds reasonable to me 20:11:27 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:15:13 !tell reaverb ok, fixed 20:15:13 wheals: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 20:18:16 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:18:35 elliptic: ok, i'll probably change it in my local options branch (which won't get pushed until after the tournament, since having incompatible rcfiles is awful) 20:19:29 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:20:58 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:21:43 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:57 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:06 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 20:30:36 elliptic: for 0.16 would you be in favor of cutting Zigs down to 1/game? 20:32:07 %version 20:32:08 trunk: 0.16-a0-305-g9782ec1; 0.15: 0.15.0-8-gb109cf8; 0.14: 0.14.2; 0.13: 0.13.2; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415 20:32:45 probably, anything that doesn't have zigscumming in pan would be an improvement as far as I am concerned 20:33:34 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 20:34:38 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:59 -!- Leibowitz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:42:20 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 20:44:32 huh. just got "your game ended unexpectedly" when choosing "q" in "random viable character", in webtiles. can't reproduce. 20:53:18 -!- TS__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:19 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:36 -!- ketsa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:38 -!- Pratfall has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:07:39 -!- xnavy is now known as Guest71697 21:07:39 -!- xnavy_ is now known as xnavy 21:07:57 -!- SomeStupidGuy has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:02 -!- Guest71697 has quit [Client Quit] 21:09:02 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:00 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:46 -!- genghis has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:34 -!- Pluie has joined ##crawl-dev 21:13:36 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:32 -!- gutt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:42 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:56 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:18:57 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:50 -!- Stoats has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 21:26:08 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:14 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 34.0a1/20140829030204]] 21:37:07 bh: Why just 1 per game? 21:37:25 Lightli: how many Labyrinths do we have per game? 21:38:42 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:14 you have a point, but it's nice that there's one way to really really push your character to the limit (i.e. how many zigs can you clear) 21:39:33 how many pan levels can you clear 21:39:37 infinite 21:39:41 how many crimson imps can you kill on abyss:5 21:39:46 etc 21:39:50 Maybe make some item that spawns another zig portal that appears on Zig:27? 21:40:08 Solves the panscumming for zigs issue 21:40:36 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 21:40:42 make the depths zig portal reusable but it reduces your max HP every time you go in 21:41:19 -!- mamgar_ has quit [Quit: Exit Stage Left] 21:41:39 that sounds good 21:42:00 put a warning message in before entering about the consequences and yeah 21:42:03 uh... 21:42:10 i don't see how that would improve things at all 21:42:30 I was joking 21:42:38 I was half-joking 21:42:39 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:47 hence why I'm not a developer for this game 21:44:52 really, i think the underlying problem here is that extended is too easy 21:44:55 or rather 21:45:00 not too easy, necessarily 21:45:08 but a pretty constant level of difficulty 21:45:16 -!- kroki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:45:16 if you can get 6 runes, you can get 15 21:45:20 pretty much 21:45:42 zigs are the only thing that actually try to scale up past that 21:46:39 it depends 21:46:56 for some characters, tomb is a viable third rune 21:47:25 sure 21:47:51 but i mean 21:48:05 there's really not *that* much of a difficulty ramp between abyss/pan/hell 21:49:08 true 21:49:53 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:55 it would be too bad to lose the freedom of no real order there, but making extended harder sounds worth it 21:50:15 like runelock lowered your choice at some point, but ended up really helping the midgame 21:50:19 -!- Tungsten has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:51:23 as it is there's a general feeling that abyss is easier than pan is easier than hell 21:52:03 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:23 abyss is easier than silver for most chars 21:52:41 it just isn't as much fun :P 21:52:58 true 21:54:33 elliptic: I've been thinking for a while about making the abyss finite 21:55:06 When you enter a floor, pick a set of vaults and lay them down. Populate the rest of the floor with the abyss map generator. Then as you walk around you encounter the same vaults again and again 21:55:17 present abyss seems pretty good to me, i would make pan more straightforward if i were going to change extended 21:55:43 ackack: an ongoing problem with the abyss is the distribution of time needed to leave 21:55:59 i would replace "to leave" with "to progress" 21:56:00 why is that a problem? 21:56:04 but this is the problem i have with pan 21:56:49 pan strikes me as even worse than the abyss, i guess the difference is that you end up in abyss in more games 21:57:12 <|amethyst> Would there be a problem with making abyssal stairs much more common? 21:57:14 doy: as a developer I view my role to present an interesting antagonist for the character in the game, not the player 21:57:33 |amethyst: I nudged that dial up some time ago 21:57:33 bh: not sure what you mean 21:57:49 doy: We shouldn't bore the *player* to death 21:58:22 <|amethyst> I meant something like 3 or 4 times as common 21:58:26 making abyss stairs much more common seems like it makes banishment kind of a non-entity 21:58:38 stairs down, not stairs out 21:59:04 sure, it would be nice to be able to get to abyss 3 quicker 21:59:18 ackack: if you are trying to get out of abyss then going down stairs is generally bad unless you are just going to die otherwise 21:59:28 i am talking about for rune hunting 21:59:30 (though I would argue that this is exactly the opposite of how it should be) 21:59:40 minmay: unless something changed I disagree with that 21:59:41 typically if i'm looking to escape i don't dive 21:59:45 <|amethyst> so make the monsters easier as you go deeper? 21:59:52 elliptic: haha I thought I originally heard that from you 22:00:02 I've always found diving for extra exits to be the correct thing to do to escape 22:00:10 and have told people that 22:00:17 extra exit chance is a thing 22:00:19 well I was mistaken then! 22:00:25 (unless someone changed that) 22:00:42 -!- FraaErasmus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:20 however I'm not sure a lot of people agree with me, possibly they don't like running from stuff as much as I do? 22:01:44 i've noticed that people seem to complain a lot about having to run from stuff 22:01:57 here's a possibly stupid suggestion: what if monster memory were shorter in the abyss 22:01:59 well abyss has always been about running from stuff 22:02:07 so it's easier to lose your pursuers if you get out of los 22:02:26 los breaks much more often, i think that's already help enough 22:02:58 ontoclasm: that seems like it'd just make things easier, not less tedious 22:03:04 the whole "get cast into abyss when you aren't prepared and probably are low-to-medium XL" is sort of conducive to running being a good idea 22:03:50 really this reminds me of the underlying issue with abyss, which is that it is trying to fulfill two completely different purposes at once 22:04:15 provide a challenge for underleveled players cast in there, and provide a rune for players who want a rune 22:04:34 keeping the running from everything feel is important, that's what abyss does well 22:04:51 i only dislike abyss when it takes unusually long to get where i'm going 22:04:55 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:56 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:04 judging by late game monster spells and distortion, isn't also supposed to provide a challenge for overleveled players cast in there 22:05:17 changing to a distribution of exits/stairs with less variance would probably make it better for me 22:06:02 <|amethyst> starting abyss depth could depend on something 22:06:09 <|amethyst> your depth in the dungeon, your level, whatever 22:06:54 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:07:09 |amethyst: that would only make sense if we also made deeper abyss levels more dangerous, though 22:07:25 <|amethyst> elliptic: they're supposed to be, so if they're not, that's a bug 22:07:32 |amethyst: no they aren't 22:07:36 <|amethyst> in terms of the monsters I mean 22:07:44 <|amethyst> they are supposed to be easier to find an exit from 22:07:47 |amethyst: it is supposed to be a tradeoff between harder monsters and quicker exits 22:07:54 yes 22:07:54 i thought monster generation was higher on lower levels 22:07:59 it is not? 22:08:05 -!- SomeStupidGirl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:06 I thought it was both 22:08:12 "dangerous" doesn't just mean more/harder monsters 22:08:56 for instance, an abyss where you always start on top of an exit would not be dangerous at all :) 22:09:04 clearly you feel that the increased chance of exit generation increases the survivability, like you say i'm not sure how widely that is agreed upon though 22:09:08 sure 22:09:40 personally i find abyss 5 pretty stressful usually, on the other hand if i'm ever there it's because i'm looking to get the rune and thus am ignoring those exits, so perhaps you're right 22:09:56 well 22:10:15 "going to abyss:5" is a bit different from "not staying in abyss:1" 22:10:44 <|amethyst> hm... so carrying around distortion makes abyss easier then? 22:10:46 it's like the old RUN advice[1 22:10:52 <|amethyst> since you can banish yourself as deep as you want 22:11:01 |amethyst: only at the cost of distortion's other effects 22:11:04 <|amethyst> true 22:11:28 does lucy's enter the abyss allow you to descend levels? 22:11:39 since you can re-banish that wouldn't be inconsistent 22:11:56 <|amethyst> it does not 22:12:02 <|amethyst> _You're already here! 22:12:27 does lucy's enter the abyss allow you to descend levels? 22:12:37 I'm having trouble coming up with a situation where this would be useful 22:12:52 if i wanted to spend a bunch of piety just to skip abyss 1 and 2 and get to the rune faster 22:12:55 if you get into a bad situation in abyss and want out immediately? 22:13:04 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: you can just exit the abyss 22:13:06 ontoclasm: lugonu has a slightly better ability for that 22:13:16 oh, right 22:13:35 psch, nobody uses that one >.> 22:13:50 given the piety cost and hp drain, i think it would almost always be a bad idea from a probability of winning standpoint 22:14:00 but i suspect i would do it given the opportunity 22:14:00 hm 22:14:13 wouldn't repeatedly unwielding your distortion weapon be a smaller cost 22:14:21 lucy prevents bad things from happening 22:14:25 unless that got unchanged? 22:14:28 oh, right 22:14:37 worst speedrun god 22:14:38 so apparently I have not actually died in multilevel abyss aside from jesterscumming games 22:14:53 so possibly this means that I am not really the person who should be talking about this 22:14:59 <|amethyst> and if you abandon lugonu to get distortion unwield, you decrease rune probability 22:15:04 i think my one abyss depth was getting banished for a second time at xl 10 by nemelex abandonment wrath 22:15:07 er, death 22:15:17 tormentor (132) | Spd: 13 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 12/12 | Dam: 805(pain), 805(pain) | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, !sil | Res: 06magic(56), 05fire, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 415 | Sp: pain (d11), s.torment | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:15:17 %??tormentor 22:15:18 !lg * place=abyss s=cv 22:15:19 56943 games for * (place=abyss): 8183x 0.14-a, 6461x 0.10, 4742x 0.15-a, 4686x 0.13-a, 4481x 0.11, 4382x 0.12-a, 2741x 0.5, 2429x 0.14, 2191x 0.4, 2168x 0.13, 1958x 0.9, 1929x 0.8, 1628x 0.10-a, 1568x 0.12, 1523x 0.11-a, 1432x 0.7, 1139x 0.8-a, 627x 0.6, 579x 0.9-a, 547x 0.16-a, 388x 0.3, 303x 0.6-a, 259x 0.7-a, 157x 0.15, 146x 0.2, 111x 0.4-a, 108x 0.5-a, 77x 0.1 22:15:34 !lg * place~~abyss: s=cv 22:15:35 26608 games for * (place~~abyss:): 8183x 0.14-a, 4742x 0.15-a, 4686x 0.13-a, 2429x 0.14, 2168x 0.13, 2128x 0.12-a, 1568x 0.12, 547x 0.16-a, 157x 0.15 22:15:47 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:54 <|amethyst> !lg * place~~abyss recent s=depth 22:15:55 Unknown field: depth 22:15:57 <|amethyst> !lg * place~~abyss recent s=place 22:15:58 18226 games for * (place~~abyss recent): 16858x Abyss:1, 665x Abyss:2, 384x Abyss:3, 180x Abyss:4, 139x Abyss:5 22:16:16 <|amethyst> !lg * abyss.exit recent s=place 22:16:17 No keyword 'abyss.exit' 22:16:17 !lm * abyss.exit recent s=oplace 22:16:21 26417 milestones for * (abyss.exit recent): 17094x Abyss:1, 3617x Abyss:3, 2828x Abyss:2, 1635x Abyss:4, 1243x Abyss:5 22:16:29 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:47 !lg * place~~abyss recent xl<20 s=place 22:16:48 17472 games for * (place~~abyss recent xl<20): 16512x Abyss:1, 595x Abyss:2, 242x Abyss:3, 80x Abyss:4, 43x Abyss:5 22:16:54 !lm * abyss.exit recent xl<20 s=oplace 22:16:58 9439 milestones for * (abyss.exit recent xl<20): 7468x Abyss:1, 1136x Abyss:2, 584x Abyss:3, 169x Abyss:4, 82x Abyss:5 22:17:18 interesting, although hard for me to interpret 22:17:22 !lg * s=cv / place=abyss o=% 22:17:25 yeah, lots of things could be affecting that data 22:17:26 56943/3517319 games for *: 6461/242565x 0.10 [2.66%], 8183/361661x 0.14-a [2.26%], 4382/205093x 0.12-a [2.14%], 4481/215098x 0.11 [2.08%], 1628/78899x 0.10-a [2.06%], 157/7995x 0.15 [1.96%], 4742/254620x 0.15-a [1.86%], 4686/258649x 0.13-a [1.81%], 547/30465x 0.16-a [1.80%], 2429/136719x 0.14 [1.78%], 1523/89913x 0.11-a [1.69%], 2168/138469x 0.13 [1.57%], 2191/144565x 0.4 [1.52%], 1568/111895x 0.1... 22:17:33 like if someone was AK-scumming :P 22:17:44 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:49 !lg * !boring s=cv / place=abyss o=% 22:17:54 54683/2902208 games for * (!boring): 108/3498x 0.4-a [3.09%], 6329/213966x 0.10 [2.96%], 7941/319205x 0.14-a [2.49%], 1569/63129x 0.10-a [2.49%], 4253/175317x 0.12-a [2.43%], 4362/185993x 0.11 [2.35%], 4606/224308x 0.15-a [2.05%], 151/7392x 0.15 [2.04%], 4495/229731x 0.13-a [1.96%], 2350/122898x 0.14 [1.91%], 522/27384x 0.16-a [1.91%], 1938/104763x 0.4 [1.85%], 1449/79924x 0.11-a [1.81%], 2083/115... 22:17:57 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:14 0.4-a, the most dangerous abyss 22:19:28 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 22:26:24 <|amethyst> Hm, what would a L9 pure conjuration look like? 22:26:41 <|amethyst> would legendary orb card be worth L9? 22:27:46 probably more like level 5 22:27:50 penetrating iood 22:28:09 <|amethyst> mancubus OOD 22:28:58 <|amethyst> johnny0: orb of katamari 22:31:05 picks up monsters in its path, rolls like a boulder beetle, monsters get flung violently (like op crusher) when the the orb smashes into a wall 22:31:08 extreme force lance 22:35:01 i have an inaccessible vault on snake:5 22:35:18 if somebody wants to look at it 22:35:21 or i could report it 22:38:17 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 22:38:24 -!- espressodan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:38:39 -!- HoneyLocust has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:01 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:50 -!- HoneyLocust has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:02 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: I'd upload it to one of the existing bugs? 22:42:07 -!- Ququman_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:12 -!- read has quit [Quit: updates] 22:43:33 i'm curious what slow rusting sounds like 22:43:35 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 22:43:37 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:52 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:52 "There is a gate leading back out of here here." 22:47:05 that could probably be worded better 22:47:13 didn't it used to be "out of this place"? 22:52:01 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:22 or just 22:52:28 "There is an exit gate here." 22:53:12 -!- espressodan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:45 -!- espressodan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:55:01 -!- lgft has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:55:15 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:57:59 -!- AlexM_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:59:39 oh no I missed banishment chat :( 22:59:58 !banish PleasingFungus 22:59:59 elliptic casts a spell. PleasingFungus is devoured by a tear in reality! 23:00:00 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:00:01 we can have more banishment chat if you want to 23:00:17 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:01 mm. dpeg had some thoughts about making abyss scale more with player strength, so you'd end up banished deeper when you were further on. I forget the details 23:01:58 yeah, his idea was more that it scales with the amount of time you've spent in the abyss 23:02:18 although the last time i heard him talk about it was before the abyss had multiple levels 23:02:35 I know I talked to him about it more recently 23:02:40 <|amethyst> making it scale with amount of time I think doesn't work so well 23:03:03 <|amethyst> because it punishes players who got banished early, got unlucky with exits, and had to slog it out 23:03:16 is that a problem though? 23:03:17 <|amethyst> and does nothing for the people who first go there late 23:03:46 i guess it depends on the rune generation chance 23:05:10 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:33 -!- andrewhl has quit [Quit: andrewhl] 23:07:08 the majority of games that enter the abyss only enter it once anyway 23:07:23 (72% in recent) 23:07:48 -!- espressodan has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:10 -!- vimpulse has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:53 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:58 <|amethyst> alternatively 23:20:02 <|amethyst> doh 23:20:06 ??doh 23:20:07 |amethyst[1/13]: <|amethyst> doh 23:30:27 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:33:57 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:47 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:37:10 wasn't the idea of finite pan brought up at some point once? 23:37:19 -!- winsbury_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:23 <|amethyst> it has been brought up several times recently 23:37:25 oh 23:37:32 ): 23:38:12 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:40:14 <|amethyst> I think it makes sense to have *some* infinite area of the game, to provide a relief valve for the people who won't be happy unless they can scum something 23:40:52 <|amethyst> but it shouldn't be something that actually benefits your game to scum 23:41:27 just add the unspeakable to said infinite area, as a recurring monster after a certain amount of time 23:41:28 does scumming pan benefit your game 23:41:40 <|amethyst> I have no idea about that 23:41:45 yes a lot of chars can have a huge net gain in resources in pan 23:41:47 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter s=br 23:41:52 -!- zercules has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:41:52 <|amethyst> err 23:41:53 1959048 milestones for * (br.enter): 506381x Temple, 262666x Lair, 176453x Orc, 151470x D, 84593x Sewer, 72179x Vaults, 60837x Elf, 52625x Snake, 50953x Ossuary, 48900x Swamp, 44378x Lab, 40315x IceCv, 36661x Shoals, 35935x Bailey, 31278x Crypt, 30175x Pan, 29337x Zot, 26901x Volcano, 26222x Slime, 26003x Hive, 25333x Spider, 20450x Bazaar, 19670x Blade, 16658x Hell, 14349x Depths, 11801x Tomb, 92... 23:41:55 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter s=br 23:41:55 2272 milestones for |amethyst (br.enter): 928x Temple, 310x D, 300x Lair, 233x Sewer, 129x Ossuary, 83x Orc, 43x Lab, 40x Bailey, 36x Swamp, 33x Volcano, 30x Snake, 23x IceCv, 21x Vaults, 19x Shoals, 14x Spider, 7x Elf, 6x Zot, 4x Slime, 3x Bazaar, 3x WizLab, 2x Depths, 2x Crypt, Hell, Hive, Trove 23:42:03 of course if you can do it, you didn't need to in the first place 23:42:03 is benefiting your game even a meaningful concept by the time you can survive indefinitely in pan 23:42:08 but some people are weird 23:42:42 i mean, our scoring system is already biased heavily in favor of turncount 23:42:44 <|amethyst> it does lower your score, so if you're going to win with 15 runes anyway 23:42:56 <|amethyst> OTOH, score is meaningless 23:42:59 people who scum pan are not thinking about score 23:43:07 they're thinking about how their invincible char is destroying the game 23:43:15 and they want to keep doing so 23:43:18 well, more power to them, really 23:43:38 I wouldn't be opposed to upping the stakes after a while 23:43:54 <|amethyst> somebody go and actually implement the hellspider 23:44:18 <|amethyst> they want glaciate + firestorm + shatter + tornado and just didn't get enough XP in the finite game 23:44:48 <|amethyst> (I guess that's quite a bit easier to do now) 23:45:01 <|amethyst> s/now/now, though/ 23:45:11 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:46:46 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:47:04 -!- eb has quit [Quit: I quit] 23:50:30 -!- andrewhl has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:06 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 23:55:11 -!- ProzacElf_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:56:10 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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