00:00:20 it already reduces their melee accuracy a bunch, which already means you take less melee damage 00:00:26 not very much, in effect 00:00:28 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:00:31 everything about hd is hidden 00:00:42 this makes the effects more consistent with what the player would expect, I think 00:02:56 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 00:05:09 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:06 hm 00:06:14 minmay, you've played a lot of this game, yeah? 00:06:20 have you ever seen a sixfirhy explode? 00:08:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2085-g0d6a310 (34) 00:10:14 Well if it's reducing melee accuracy and reducing damage, it's already consistent with what players expect really 00:10:35 s/and reducing damage/and therefore reducing damage/ 00:11:12 except that it was a very small effect on effective damage 00:11:26 effect effect effect 00:11:36 didn't we see that it reduced their damage by 25%? 00:11:44 when we reduced hd by 75%, yes 00:11:47 for at least orc warriors 00:11:54 that is Profoundly Underwhelming 00:11:57 well that's kind of what we want 00:12:03 is it? 00:12:27 yeah we do probably, since otherwise the brand might be too powerful? 00:12:40 I kind of doubt it? 00:12:46 I mean it has: flat damage, damage increase, monster damage decrease 00:12:55 does it need a fourth thing 00:13:10 weren't you the one who was describing it as "worse than vorpal" like half an hour ago? 00:13:36 I am having a hard time keeping up with your rhetorical positions, tbh 00:13:48 (also tbf I've swapped places since that last argument!!!) 00:14:03 yeah, and when you said reduced damage by 25% and I was like "woah, what"? 00:14:15 and then you revealed it in fact does do that 00:14:26 well, I said reduced damage by 25% for the first hit 00:14:29 which it does not do 00:14:43 well that's not what we want :p 00:15:02 for orc warriors, I think it is fine, actually 00:15:06 possibly we can lower the damage 00:15:11 take out the flat part, maybe, since we have a flat hd effect 00:15:15 for orc warriors? what about the rest of warriors? 00:15:24 the rest of what 00:15:26 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:35 oh 00:15:36 i.e. the rest of the game 00:15:43 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 205 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 00:15:43 %??yak 00:16:06 reduces damage by ~14% on first successful drain hit 00:16:12 orc warlord (11o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 85-143 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 32 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(60) | XP: 1673 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 00:16:12 %??orc warlord 00:16:17 ~7% 00:16:21 I mean, totally don't listen only to me. I'd get some sanity checking from MarvinPA, elliptic 00:16:32 sure 00:16:44 elliptic is dead but I'm sure mpa will be along to yell at me for something soon enough 00:16:51 elliptic is in the channel 00:16:52 PleasingFungus: I've exploded sixfirhies all the time 00:16:53 it is the mpa experience. I am growing accustomed to it 00:16:56 minmay: !!! 00:18:09 I'm not dead! but I haven't played crawl in two months so I'm not up for any sanity checking :P 00:18:14 dang 00:18:17 hi elliptic! 00:18:28 hi 00:18:36 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2085-g0d6a310 (34) 00:18:48 I explode them a lot less now since I don't use air magic much and avoid pan/abyss at all costs 00:19:02 that said sixfirhy explosion is pretty dumb, so removing it sounds great 00:19:06 ah, I was thinking of using elec brand 00:19:21 which I doubt you'd end up exploding them with before just killing them from weapon damage 00:19:25 unless you somehow reduce the sixfirhy's max HP I don't think you can explode one with elec brand at all 00:19:38 let me go find the code 00:19:53 oh I guess you can 00:20:07 the elec damage just has to be enough to kill it from its current HP, not its full hp 00:20:10 I don't know why I thought that 00:20:15 so yeah you can explode them with elec weapons easily 00:20:25 huh 00:20:34 just need to not kill them with the non-brand damage 00:20:41 yes 00:20:51 and also if the damage isn't enough to one-shot it, it just gets healed so that's annoying 00:21:02 wow it gets healed for twice the damage 00:21:12 hm 00:21:15 the exploding is sort of cute 00:21:27 it's just a message, right? 00:21:41 sixfirhy (124) | Spd: 40 (move: 60%) | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 2/20 | Dam: 1511(elec:7-9) | 05demonic, 10doors | Res: 06magic(56), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 506 | Sz: little | Int: normal. 00:21:41 %??sixfirhy 00:21:50 wait, they don't have relec? 00:21:59 uh 00:22:05 how exactly do you think they would ever explode if they had rElec... 00:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-2086-g1ed3c6d: Add an icon for draining 10(17 minutes ago, 7 files, 15+ -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1ed3c6d39c19 00:22:24 that is why I was wondering! 00:22:25 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:22:33 if (!alive()) // overcharging is deadly 00:22:33 simple_monster_message(this, " explodes in a shower of sparks!"); 00:22:33 else if (heal(damage*2, false)) 00:22:33 simple_monster_message(this, " seems to be charged up!"); 00:22:34 see, it all comes together 00:23:03 anyway I'd say the fact that this is the only way elec damage can kill one makes it more than "just a message" 00:23:12 no I meant 00:23:20 if I removed the second clause 00:23:31 the remaining message would just be a flavor thing 00:23:33 yes 00:23:36 yes. 00:23:38 it would also make no sense anymore 00:23:45 but still an improvement I suppose 00:23:47 well, they're still fast elec monsters 00:23:53 you still have the elec theme 00:24:38 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:06 well I always imagined it as, the sixfirhy is kind of like a ball filled with water 00:25:23 and electricity is water in this analogy 00:25:46 so if you put more water (electricity) in the ball, it heals it, and if you poke holes in the ball with your weapon, it hurts it (loses water) 00:25:52 but if you put too much water in the ball, it explodes 00:26:02 because it cant hold that much water 00:26:56 with all that said I definitely support getting rid of the weird elec heal thing 00:27:37 I'll sleep on it 00:27:44 too momentous a decision to make on the spur of the moment... 00:28:41 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:38 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 00:29:55 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:28 -!- eb_ has quit [] 00:37:06 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:03 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:13 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:46:44 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2086-g1ed3c6d 00:48:53 -!- jaumoose has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:36 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:56 -!- Taraiph is now known as TaraCraft 00:54:03 -!- purge__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:54 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 00:56:23 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:01:51 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:27 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:08 -!- TaraCraft has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:32 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:19:27 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:20:20 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:25:05 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:47 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:27:49 -!- HaltingProblem has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:47:41 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 33.0a1/20140702030201]] 01:48:03 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:48 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:29 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:58:11 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:19:25 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2086-g1ed3c6d (34) 02:21:00 -!- jarpiain_ is now known as jarpiain 02:22:39 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:57 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:31:49 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:33 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:07 -!- ruwin has quit [] 02:40:14 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:22 -!- soadzombi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:51:10 -!- Pepe has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:57 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:23 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:58:18 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:09:21 -!- Ketsa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 03:11:42 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 03:11:49 -!- Keanan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:32 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:04 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:35:21 -!- Kaput has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:38:07 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:19 -!- jeff__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:45:02 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:45:38 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:29 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:48:47 -!- Xom has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:13 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:25 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:26 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:59:55 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:59:55 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:01:34 -!- tksquared has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:02 -!- surprisetrex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:18 -!- broquaint has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:05:51 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:11 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:20 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:49 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:30:00 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:31:52 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:32:03 -!- Chousuke_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:24 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:32:34 !cmd .crushed !lg cv=0.15-a ikiller=octopode_crusher 04:32:35 Defined command: .crushed => !lg cv=0.15-a ikiller=octopode_crusher 04:33:09 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 04:39:49 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:23 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 04:51:56 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:53:58 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:56:59 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:56 sanka (L9 OpWn) (D:8) 04:59:10 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:54 sanka (L9 OpWn) (D:8) 05:02:55 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:07:57 sanka (L10 OpWn) (D:9) 05:12:10 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:12:56 -!- FiftyNine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:15:52 -!- Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 05:16:54 -!- Kramin has left ##crawl-dev 05:19:09 -!- tolly has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:19:47 sanka (L10 OpWn) (D:9) 05:23:38 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:23:59 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:27:26 !cmd .crushed !lg * cv=0.15-a ikiller=octopode_crusher 05:27:27 Redefined command: .crushed => !lg * cv=0.15-a ikiller=octopode_crusher 05:29:12 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:32:51 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:51:25 -!- Wahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54:05 Sanddman (L17 OgBe) (Spider:3) 05:54:44 Sanddman (L17 OgBe) (Spider:3) 06:00:24 -!- rophy has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 06:02:39 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:07:11 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07:19 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:09:55 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:22:07 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:27:28 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 06:37:47 -!- ishanyx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:38:01 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:38:59 -!- rbrrk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:48:25 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 06:52:30 -!- negatendo has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:25 -!- Kramin has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:50 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:50 -!- puissantveil has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:00:35 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:01:35 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:44 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:53 -!- mngrif has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:06:20 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:07:36 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:11 !messages 07:10:11 (1/3) rchandra said (1d 9h 5m 5s ago): Ru asks you to sacrifice your one of your tentacles. This is an incredible sacrifice. One of your hands has vanished, leaving only a stump! 07:10:17 !messages 07:10:17 (1/2) rchandra said (1d 6h 31m 16s ago): it seems Op less a hand lose 2 rings in different ways - only 7 slots shown, with the 7th "unavailable" 07:10:26 !messages 07:10:26 (1/1) reaverb said (11h 42m 26s ago): One minor thing, Ru's description ("Ru" in dat/descript/gods.txt, as opposed to "Ru powers" in gods.txt) is longer than than the other gods', it would be nice if it was compressed a bit. 07:10:46 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:52 !tell rchandra Thanks! 07:10:52 Lasty: OK, I'll let rchandra know. 07:12:23 !crashlog sanka 07:12:23 20. sanka, XL10 OpWn, T:13188 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/sanka/crash-sanka-20140714-101947.txt 07:13:01 hm. 07:13:14 !tell pleasingfungus crashes!!! !lm sanka crash 20 -log 07:13:14 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 07:13:22 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:13:34 !tell pleasingfungus it's after a shroom does a thing so it's probably your fault 07:13:34 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 07:14:06 oh, in fact it's the weird special case he added 07:14:57 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:15:13 oh wow is this a divide by zero 07:16:33 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:14 %git 0.15-a0-2085-g0d6a310 07:17:14 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-2085-g0d6a310: Make draining decrease monster attack damage 10(8 hours ago, files, 3+ -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d6a310c8a1a 07:17:27 !tell |amethyst "(8 hours ago, files, 3+ -)" 07:17:27 wheals: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 07:21:14 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:19 -!- mopl has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:06 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:57 Error calling monster-trunk: 07:34:57 %??yak 07:35:02 weird bugs 07:35:55 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:22 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:27 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:35 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:37:03 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:16 -!- mopl has quit [Client Quit] 07:40:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:44:46 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:31 -!- Quashie has quit [Client Quit] 07:46:46 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:03 -!- Sgun has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:48 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:56 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:58 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:35 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:59:26 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:01:38 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:31 !tell pleasingfungus $ git diff master --stat --oneline 7 files changed, 734 insertions(+), 981 deletions(-) get good 08:04:32 wheals: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 08:06:52 -!- Vesto has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:45 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:19 -!- Xen has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:03 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:22:57 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:25:33 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-2087-gdc4f2ba: Don't move the abyssal stair enum on save bump. 10(3 days ago, files, + 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dc4f2bac322b 08:25:33 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-2088-gfff14fb: Separate feature data into feature-data.h. 10(4 days ago, 5 files, 614+ 508-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fff14fb3beb1 08:25:33 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-2089-g7f423cb: Reorder and document feature.cc. 10(21 hours ago, 2 files, 61+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7f423cbf4a09 08:25:33 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-2090-g3ee8b5a: Move feature name data to feature-data.h. 10(19 hours ago, 5 files, 198+ 469-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3ee8b5ad95f6 08:25:33 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-2091-g3676b4b: Move more feature name data to feature-data.h. 10(44 minutes ago, 5 files, 214+ 320-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3676b4b6280a 08:25:35 !tell Lasty sorry for the conflicts... 08:25:35 wheals: OK, I'll let lasty know. 08:26:13 wheals: You just made me sad. 08:26:14 Lasty: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:27:25 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:20 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:36 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:35:01 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:28 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 08:35:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:24 "There are rumors of a third, rare & powerful crossbow type…" 08:39:35 ^ please tell me that you added ballistas, and that only trolls and ogres can wield them 08:39:38 -!- mspang has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:41 oo, are new crossbows in now? 08:39:56 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:40:47 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:41:18 -!- elliptic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:41:22 are hand crossbows back too 08:41:43 absolutego: allegedly 08:41:59 "Pigs now have trotters." <-- what 08:42:31 Wensley: probably for messages such as "A toadstool grows at your [trotters]" 08:43:41 ic 08:44:51 "Brown (contaminated) chunks are gone, replaced with normal chunks." <-- how long until we can just remove eating entirely? 08:46:21 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:49 -!- hfs has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:53:01 -!- HaltingProblem has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:54:06 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:54:06 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:54:06 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 08:55:04 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:55:21 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 08:57:04 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:17 Wensley: Hand crossbows should be the starting weapon at this point, so it should be easy to test :D 09:13:47 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:35 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2092-g43cca0e: Add feature-data.h to MSVC project. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43cca0e4b26b 09:14:35 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2093-g8442271: Correct a few feature name typos. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=844227159e91 09:14:35 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2094-g85a9e77: Handle feature-data.h in db_lint. 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 15+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=85a9e77e0a38 09:15:09 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 09:16:19 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 09:19:31 what is missing_ghost for 09:19:55 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:16 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:42 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2095-g89e5758: Update new-dev mailmap instructions. 10(20 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89e5758a5cc4 09:24:44 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:27:15 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2096-g403526d: Comment missing_ghost (ontoclasm) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=403526d07ded 09:28:33 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:10 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:42:01 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:49:27 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:51:17 ontoclasm1: I added your ability tokens to Ru 09:51:25 s/tokens/images/ 09:54:12 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:25 perunasaurus (L17 FoAs) (Snake:2) 10:01:07 perunasaurus (L17 FoAs) (Snake:2) 10:01:18 okay what the hell is going on 10:01:22 !lg . crash 10:01:23 No keyword 'crash' 10:01:40 !crash 10:01:41 7973. perunasaurus, XL17 FoAs, T:33925 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/perunasaurus/crash-perunasaurus-20140714-150107.txt 10:02:36 Looks like div_rand_round crashed 10:02:59 so should I report this 10:03:03 yeah, probably 10:03:29 I'm not sure what's going on, but it looks related to monster ranged combat passing a bad value into div_rand_round (best guess) 10:05:14 is it a reflection thing? 10:05:25 perunasaurus (L17 FoAs) (Snake:2) 10:05:29 argh 10:05:31 guess I have to dive 10:06:25 perunasaurus (L17 FoAs) (Snake:3) 10:06:56 yeah it happens every time I reflect a bolt 10:07:07 from a sharpshooter 10:07:56 Crash in Snake Pit. 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8792 by Kvaak 10:09:33 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:32 Can you not reflect a portaled projectile maybe? 10:10:42 something like that 10:10:48 I know sharpshooters have pp 10:11:02 I swapped to another shield without reflection and it stopped crashing 10:11:18 Can you tell if the sharpshooter has pp active? 10:11:56 It might also theoretically be related the change that puts bolt damage at 0 -- if the math is using bolt damage and ignoring the crossbow damage, it could cause divide by zero, I guess 10:13:06 Magic'lly, tha naga sharpshooter shoots an arrow. 10:13:16 afaik this signifies pp 10:13:30 yeah, sounds right 10:13:38 oddly enough the last message doesn't have it 10:13:45 although it's possibly they happened on the same turn 10:14:02 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2097-g97a1eff: Don't crash when reflecting a missile at a monster (#8792) 10(36 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=97a1effaeff9 10:14:05 Weird that the sharpshooters are shooting arrows -- don't they have crossbows? Or am I making that up? 10:14:10 boom 10:14:13 they have both 10:14:26 or well, one or the other 10:14:33 |amethyst already got it, sounds like 10:14:46 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:49 that was fast 10:17:51 From |amethyst's changes, it looks like the source of reflection damage is an entity w/o hit dice, which led to a crash when trying to scale damage by hit dice. 10:18:09 (well, with 0 hit dice) 10:18:31 odd that the bug floated around this long 10:18:37 naga sharpshooters aren't that new 10:19:15 I'd guess that the issue isn't tied to sharpshooters, based on his changes 10:19:15 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2097-g97a1eff (34) 10:19:31 so it has nothing to do with portal projectile? 10:19:55 well, I'm not doing due diligence, but my lazy read on it is probably not 10:20:09 huh 10:20:46 on the other hand, reflection hasn't changed in a long time, so that seems hard to believe 10:20:52 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:19 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:37 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:00 <|amethyst> It was introduced by: 10:23:00 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:23:06 <|amethyst> %git 0d6a310 10:23:06 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-2085-g0d6a310: Make draining decrease monster attack damage 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d6a310c8a1a 10:23:07 <|amethyst> !message 10:23:08 You probably meant !messages, or possibly !tell. 10:23:09 <|amethyst> !messages 10:23:10 (1/1) wheals said (3h 5m 42s ago): "(8 hours ago, files, 3+ -)" 10:23:16 <|amethyst> also fixed 10:23:31 ah 10:24:12 <|amethyst> but more generally there could be other lurking weirdness 10:24:27 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:57 <|amethyst> now that the missile-hits sequence is handled by attack code that, unlike the old beam code, doesn't have access to both the real agent and the reflector 10:24:58 You can temporarily drain monsters to 0 HD? 10:25:03 ah 10:25:26 -!- eki has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:26:01 * PleasingFungus lurks. 10:26:13 Sounds like fungusy behavior 10:26:36 !send PleasingFungus blame 10:26:36 Sending blame to PleasingFungus. 10:27:00 hm. kind of weird that 97a1effaeff9 doesn't end up explicitly setting attk_damage at all if xl <= 0 10:27:01 PleasingFungus: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:27:04 <|amethyst> for example, it looks like maybe reflected needle attacks never apply their brand 10:27:20 <|amethyst> oh, whoops 10:27:43 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I missed that the lhs and rhs were two different things :) 10:27:53 <|amethyst> attk_damage looks so much like mon_attk.damage :) 10:28:35 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:29:04 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301: Fix reflected attack damage (PleasingFungus, doh) 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c97130181c2d 10:29:19 <|amethyst> !tell Grunt ranged_attack needs to get both bolt::agent() and bolt::agent(true) 10:29:19 |amethyst: OK, I'll let grunt know. 10:29:39 <|amethyst> !tell Grunt Because things like blowgun_duration_roll need the latter 10:29:39 |amethyst: OK, I'll let grunt know. 10:32:10 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:39 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 10:35:44 perunasaurus (L19 FoAs) (D:13) 10:35:49 oh not again 10:38:52 perunasaurus (L19 FoAs) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 10:39:08 the heck? 10:39:10 !crash 10:39:11 7977. perunasaurus, XL19 FoAs, T:40081 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/perunasaurus/crash-perunasaurus-20140714-153852.txt 10:40:03 that's the weirdest vaults level I've ever seen 10:40:25 There was a change to features just within the last hour 10:40:28 maybe that's related? 10:40:33 almost certainly 10:40:35 well 10:40:40 Ye reflect tha poison'd arrow off yer +0 shield o' reflection! 10:40:42 Tha poison'd arrow hits tha centaur warrior!!!!! 10:40:42 yes, since |amethyst rebuilt manually 10:40:50 is it just me or is that a rather excessive number of !s 10:40:53 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:41:03 oh. you're not in sgrunt 10:41:04 the centaur warrior just one-shot itself 10:41:06 nope 10:41:32 Ye reflect tha arrow off yer +0 shield o' reflection! Tha arrow hits tha centaur!!!!! 10:41:46 as amusing as this is I don't think this should happen 10:42:27 hm. I think that is probably what c971301 should fix 10:42:37 ??rebuild 10:42:38 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Nap kin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 10:43:27 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:43:31 now I just have to see if I can one-shot an OOF with a reflected boulder beetle 10:44:00 perunasaurus (L19 FoAs) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 10:45:30 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:48:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:15 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301 (34) 10:50:36 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:51:06 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301 (34) 10:51:18 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:40 Ye reflect tha bolt off yer +0 shield o' reflection! 10:51:40 Tha bolt hits tha centaur warrior!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10:52:40 -!- Alarkh_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:53:28 uninitialized values :) 10:56:02 -!- Kaput has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:56:22 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301 (34) 11:03:51 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 33.0a1/20140702030201]] 11:04:42 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:05:38 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301 (34) 11:05:38 Kvvaak 11:05:43 So how much damage was that for then 11:05:48 :v 11:10:03 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:03 603979776+ 11:11:10 -!- Philonous has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:27 wow 11:14:38 I am going to assume the centaur warrior died then :v 11:14:46 yes. yes it did. 11:17:29 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:17:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:22:07 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:55 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:30:27 !send Crpyt wheals 11:30:28 Sending wheals to Crpyt. 11:31:10 alas, not here.. 11:31:41 !crashlog 11:31:42 7979. Behavioral, XL18 VpEn, T:52744 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Behavioral/crash-Behavioral-20140714-162354.txt 11:32:02 mm, lua 11:32:30 !crashlog -2 11:32:30 No milestones for -2 (crash). 11:32:39 !lm * crashlog -2 -log 11:32:39 No keyword 'crashlog' 11:32:46 !lm * crash -2 -log 11:32:47 7978. perunasaurus, XL19 FoAs, T:40073 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/perunasaurus/crash-perunasaurus-20140714-154401.txt 11:33:21 looks like it's an interaction with the lua that builds Vaults 11:33:48 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:29 Zooty (L18 HuAM) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 11:35:44 Zooty (L18 HuAM) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 11:35:59 Zooty (L18 HuAM) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 11:36:32 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:36:40 -!- orionstein is now known as orionstein_away 11:40:55 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:41:09 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:41:18 Crash when entering vaults for the first time 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8793 by Zooty 11:42:15 on the plus side, it's a crash when loading levels. No lost progress! 11:42:20 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:42:57 also no progress 11:43:38 pfft 11:43:42 vaults is optional anyway 11:44:12 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:45:29 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:46:01 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:49:03 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 11:49:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:52 -!- behavioral has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:54:05 -!- tswett has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:14 Hi everyone. 12:03:16 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:28 -!- DarkEternal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:05:30 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:42 Hello! 12:09:51 -!- tswett has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:11:45 -!- tswett has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:01 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:25 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:59 -!- Pikkle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:59 -!- Pikkle has quit [Client Quit] 12:19:25 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:13 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9: Don't crash when entering Vaults (#8793) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb1bfb92929d 12:22:56 Hola de nuevo. 12:23:21 Same to you. 12:27:41 Man, I miss the days when you could crash when entering Vaults. Devs keep removing all the fun texture in Crawl! 12:28:02 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 12:29:08 if a commit doesn't add a new crash bug, we have failed as devs. 12:30:40 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9 (34) 12:30:53 Behavioral (L18 VpEn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:4) 12:31:30 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9 (34) 12:31:51 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9 (34) 12:32:03 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:02 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:17 * wheals goes to check whether he broke anything... 12:36:49 %git 12:36:49 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9: Don't crash when entering Vaults (#8793) 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb1bfb92929d 12:36:51 ^ 12:37:23 nice 12:37:37 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9 (34) 12:37:45 <|amethyst> %git 8442271 12:37:45 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2093-g8442271: Correct a few feature name typos. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=844227159e91 12:37:58 <|amethyst> %git 43cca0e 12:37:59 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2092-g43cca0e: Add feature-data.h to MSVC project. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43cca0e4b26b 12:39:04 <|amethyst> (and one related to gather_features but that doesn't affect crawl itself) 12:39:32 huh, looks like chei is still not showing the 0 next to the - 12:39:50 <|amethyst> oh, hm 12:40:01 <|amethyst> I fixed the blank for n=1 12:40:23 So the code to remove all the whitespace from a string is a bit long: 12:40:31 str_nospace.erase(remove_if(str_nospace.begin(), str_nospace.end(), static_cast(isspace)), str_nospace.end()); 12:40:47 I'm using this little idiom twice. Should I just duplicate this line here, or should I declare a one-off macro? 12:41:10 |amethyst, it might make sense to not have the - at all if it's 0 12:41:11 maybe 12:41:17 If that's the best way to remove space from a string, wouldn't we want a more global function for it? 12:41:22 could use a macro, could declare a static/inline function 12:41:24 (rather than a one-off macro) 12:41:29 Lasty: I'm not sure we do it that often? 12:41:32 are you sure libutil doesn't have a function? 12:41:34 Oh, fair enough 12:43:14 !source chop_string 12:43:15 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/unicode.cc;hb=HEAD#l534 12:43:32 <|amethyst> wheals: possibly... it's simpler for now to leave the -0 though :P 12:44:04 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 12:44:04 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 12:44:10 <|amethyst> %git 43cca0e 12:44:10 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2092-g43cca0e: Add feature-data.h to MSVC project. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43cca0e4b26b 12:44:29 !source trim_string 12:44:29 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/libutil.cc;hb=HEAD#l726 12:44:35 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:38 <|amethyst> that's different 12:45:02 <|amethyst> that one removes spaces from the beginning and end 12:46:15 Yeah, trim_string() isn't right. I'm not clear on what chop_string() actually does? 12:46:33 -!- ishanyx has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:47:43 chop string just seems to put it at a certain length, not what's needed 12:50:05 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:32 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:53:21 is it just me or is it kind of weird you can fumble in treeform 12:54:00 -!- Isha is now known as ishanyx 12:54:44 -!- giantbat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:24 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Quit: CKyle_] 12:56:39 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:56:47 blame wheals 12:56:51 Reflected needles work incorrectly 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8794 by neil 12:56:54 if we're talking about shallow water? 12:56:58 yes 12:57:06 why is that weird 12:57:13 you're a tree 12:57:22 you're like a you-sized tree 12:57:24 apparently 12:57:28 <|amethyst> yes, but your feet don't move 12:57:37 the current doesn't slow down when you're a tree 12:57:48 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:57:49 <|amethyst> if nagas and grey dracs are extra-stable, surely trees should be too? 12:58:12 that sounds reasonable to me 12:58:15 seems fine to me, i guess 12:59:30 seems like this is a good morning for making crawl 12:59:33 ??Grunt[$ 12:59:33 grunt[17/17]: ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) 12:59:36 a little more stable 12:59:48 <|amethyst> what about Leda's 12:59:49 ??uncool[st 12:59:49 uncool[2/7]: Stable versions. 12:59:57 "your roots penetrate the ground" on entering treeform 13:00:03 <|amethyst> stationary monsters are immune so I guess player trees should be too 13:00:12 oh, leda's makes things fumble too? 13:00:15 yeah 13:00:53 leda's should be impossible for treeform, I'd think 13:01:21 I guess that'd be consistent. on the other hand, is it really abusable? 13:01:32 given there's a limited supply of treeform 13:01:36 !lig is quite rare so I highly doubt it 13:02:48 what if someone zaps themselves with /poly repeatedly until they become a tree??? 13:03:13 oh, i found a bug! invisible monsters glyph is ' ' 13:03:16 seems a bit bad 13:09:42 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12:57 -!- eb_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:25 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2100-g783a5bf: Make tree form extra-balanced and immune to Leda's. 10(8 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=783a5bfccb75 13:13:25 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2101-ga737d34: Prevent casting Leda's in tree form. 10(37 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a737d34e6850 13:13:27 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:00 <|amethyst> I guess I didn't handle converting to tree form while you have Leda's active 13:14:03 Powerful Treeform Nerfs 13:14:05 or buffs 13:14:26 as discussed I'd be fine with letting people combo treeform/leda's 13:14:33 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:14:37 it's strong but inherently pretty limited 13:15:13 hm, it looks like the glyph for invisible monsters is actually correct 13:15:15 also it's kind of weird thematically that you can't cast leda's when flying *or* when rooted? "what do you even want from me, spell" 13:15:19 it's just that the colour is black 13:15:29 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:15:53 i can't actually figure out how this ever worked, though 13:19:18 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:19:47 <|amethyst> :q 13:21:12 like, i don't see anywhere where invis_fd gets BLUE 13:21:37 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:22:08 it's called expose_invis for rcfile purposes, does that help? 13:22:20 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:51 er, invis_exposed 13:24:27 not really, since what that sets (the symbol) actually _is_ getting set correctly 13:24:35 <|amethyst> ah 13:24:36 <|amethyst> I see it 13:24:58 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:40 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2102-gacb6860: Make invisible monster indicator visible again. 10(20 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=acb6860397ce 13:26:16 welp 13:26:38 that is a good error 13:26:56 <|amethyst> I didn't think to check what clouds looked like :) 13:27:21 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 13:27:51 until the rebuild i guess i'll just have to pretend the orc wizards are turning into shadows 13:30:05 or you could play.... 13:30:06 tiles....... 13:30:18 ha ha just kidding. 13:30:25 !lg . s=tiles 13:30:25 3136 games for wheals: 3133x false, 3x true 13:30:41 !lg . tiles 13:30:41 3. wheals the Geomancer (L6 GrEE), slain by Xurdan's ghost on D:4 on 2013-11-07 01:33:53, with 453 points after 5377 turns and 0:16:48. 13:30:53 rip 13:30:53 !lg . tiles s=src 13:30:53 3 games for wheals (tiles): 3x cszo 13:30:57 hm 13:30:59 !lg neil 13:31:00 9229. neil the Stinger (L1 DEVM), quit the game on D:1 (minmay_arrival_five_plusses) on 2014-07-14 05:24:03, with 0 points after 0 turns and 0:00:06. 13:31:00 !hs . tiles 13:31:01 3. wheals the Geomancer (L6 GrEE), slain by Xurdan's ghost on D:4 on 2013-11-07 01:33:53, with 453 points after 5377 turns and 0:16:48. 13:31:10 !hs . !tiles 13:31:10 3133. wheals the Slayer (L27 VSCK of Xom), escaped with the Orb and 5 runes on 2014-05-16 01:00:34, with 3050540 points after 74983 turns and 4:16:14. 13:31:12 !lm neil 13:31:12 13624. [2014-07-14 18:27:09] neil the Shield-Bearer (L1 HuFi) began the quest for the Orb on turn 0. (D:1) 13:31:19 tiles makes me worse, case closed 13:31:21 !lg neil mibe 13:31:23 25. neil the Fencer (L14 MiBe of Trog), blasted by an orc high priest (divine providence) on Orc:4 (st_orc_elflike) on 2014-07-14 05:23:46, with 62300 points after 22900 turns and 1:05:54. 13:31:26 dang 13:31:28 rip 13:31:36 wheals: is that possible???? 13:31:41 8) 13:32:12 ?/things that look 13:32:13 Matching entries (1): tiles[13]: you're all spoiled with your things that look like things 13:32:20 !lg warrigal2 s=tiles 13:32:20 One game for warrigal2: false 13:32:32 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:36 I'm an even more hardcore antitilist than wheals, see. 13:32:44 Okay, I'm declaring a macro to remove spaces from strings. 13:33:37 -!- ishanyx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:38 -!- CKyle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:53 So, next tricky bit. The way i want to write str_to_weapon now iterates through Weapon_prop, but Weapon_prop is static in itemprop.cc. 13:35:03 While str_to_weapon is in initfile.cc. 13:35:38 <|amethyst> move str_to_weapon into itemprop.cc then :) 13:35:50 <|amethyst> it's non-static I assume given the name 13:36:19 wheals: good memory 13:36:31 <|amethyst> (also move the decl from initfile.h to itemprop.h) 13:36:45 -!- jefkin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:05 That's definitely an option. Conceptually, it's not ideal, because str_to_weapon is specific to initfile parsing, so it "belongs" in initfile.cc. 13:37:07 <|amethyst> as for the string thing: I would use a (possibly inline) function rather than a macro unless there's a reason a function wouldn't work 13:37:11 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:37:39 yes, never use macros, they are the work of the devil (i.e. me) 13:37:41 <|amethyst> tswett: the alternative is to put the half of the logic that uses Weapon_prop into itemprop.cc 13:38:00 |amethyst: yeah, that's what I'm thinking of doing. 13:38:35 if str_to_weapon is specific to initfile parsing, why isn't it static? 13:38:37 "Look up weapon by base name with whitespace removed" sounds like an awfully specific task for a function in itemprop.cc to do. 13:38:38 what calls it? 13:38:47 PleasingFungus: good question. Lemme see. 13:38:56 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it's also used by a lua game init function 13:39:07 What |amethyst said. 13:39:08 ahh 13:39:12 <|amethyst> you_init in l_you.cc 13:39:22 Okay, so it's not initfile-specific, but it's character initialization-specific. 13:39:44 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:40:07 wheals: yeah, I guess nothing is preventing me from making this into a function instead of a macro. 13:40:50 i'm just joking since i used around ~10 macros in the new file i just added 13:40:54 it did save time! 13:41:19 * tswett nods. 13:42:16 nooooo 13:42:19 you monster 13:42:43 !send PleasingFungus STONE_STAIRS_UP(IV, iv) 13:42:44 Sending STONE_STAIRS_UP(IV, iv) to PleasingFungus. 13:43:03 augh 13:43:08 * PleasingFungus convulses! 13:43:09 -!- Behavioral has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:44:05 it would be cool if stone stairs just became 'stairs', given that rock stairs have not been a Thing for some time 13:44:13 this is mainly for the benefit of &( admittedly 13:44:24 But we've gotta have other kinds of stairs! 13:44:27 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:31 Glass stairs! Ice stairs! Wood stairs! 13:44:33 sealed stairs 13:44:45 !send tswet the abyssal stair 13:44:45 Sending the abyssal stair to tswet. 13:44:48 ooh, wood stairs could be dropped when you kill a wood golem 13:44:50 ...bah 13:44:56 * geekosaur no typey 13:45:01 off-by-t error 13:45:08 !send geekosaur the hydratuar 13:45:08 Sending the hydratuar to geekosaur. 13:45:14 er 13:45:18 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:19 * wheals no typey either 13:46:06 literally the only thing stopping me from bringing the hydrataur back is sloth and laziness wrt sprites 13:46:21 !send after_the_a u 13:46:21 Sending u to after_the_a. 13:46:37 !send tswett seriously does this command actually do something 13:46:37 Sending seriously does this command actually do something to tswett. 13:46:38 hm. except there's a very suspicious sprite lurking deep in the tilesheet 13:46:47 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Quit: CKyle_] 13:46:51 Tentative answer: no. 13:46:54 tswett: It makes Sequell say a thing. 13:46:56 yeah someone made one 13:47:09 %git :/drataur 13:47:10 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-784-g4494170: Remove the hydrataur. 10(8 months ago, 4 files, 0+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=449417009e46 13:47:23 %git :/ile.*drataur 13:47:24 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-783-g42ce3de: A tile and a non-working desc for the hydrataur. 10(8 months ago, 4 files, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=42ce3de74440 13:47:55 what a strange commit description 13:47:55 Should I go ahead and put this inline whitespace-removing function in itemdesc.h? 13:48:08 Or whatever it's called? 13:48:15 itemprop.h. 13:48:28 PleasingFungus, note the numbers of the two commits 13:48:30 uh 13:48:40 so what's the big point of chimera anyways if most of them suck 13:48:43 ahh 13:48:52 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Quit: Finnish forwards learn from an early age that the only way to score is to get really lucky, so why bother training] 13:48:52 Lightli: gfunk has a plan to improve them 13:48:56 cool 13:49:24 tswett: I guess stick it after the inline is_weapon declaration? 13:49:30 PleasingFungus: I guess so. 13:51:04 mm. how dumb would it be to give capn's cutlass disarming 13:51:20 your refactor made me think of how else disarming could be used 13:51:39 go for it 13:51:45 Shouldn't the captain's cutlass put defenders in nets and then force them to walk planks? 13:51:46 then add the new parrying dagger shield-slot item 13:51:49 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:00 at last - dual-wielding...... 13:52:15 how much damage would the parrying dagger give :v 13:52:20 I wonder if dual-wielding was ever really done historically. 13:52:21 i'm still sad about the fate of the colonel's sabre... 13:53:01 tswett: sort of! certainly parrying daggers were a real thing, though I'm not sure they were used in warfare per se 13:53:09 wheals: the what 13:53:13 All right, let's write this function look_up_weapon_by_name_with_whitespace_removed(). 13:53:36 tswett, whoa! that name is kind of ambiguous 13:53:51 Good point. 13:53:57 try_to_maybe_look_up_weapon_type_by_name_after_removing_whitespace 13:54:35 wpn_no_space() 13:54:44 Let's make it look_up_weapon_in_Weapon_prop_by_name_of_the_weapon_with_all_whitespace_removed_from_the_name_of_the_weapon_but_preserving_non_whitespace_characters_in_the_name_of_the_weapon_returning_the_id_of_the_weapon. 13:54:56 %bug 8088 13:54:56 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8088 13:55:02 PleasingFungus: ^^^ 13:55:14 weapon_by_name(bool ignore_whitespace) would be good, if this was python 13:56:16 wheals: ha 13:57:47 Maybe I'll stick name_nospace_to_weapon below weapon_base_name. 13:58:15 -!- dinguskhan has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:33 -!- eki has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:01:52 space_insensitive_name_to_weapon? 14:02:05 hm 14:02:10 naming really is the hardest problem in programming. 14:02:20 !send PleasingFungus a bucket of paint 14:02:20 Sending a bucket of paint to PleasingFungus. 14:02:35 kwyjibo() 14:02:36 Just think of all reasonable names and stick them together with _OR_ between them. 14:02:43 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that and cache invalidation 14:02:46 -!- DarkEternal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:02:47 Currently I have it where the function doesn't actually strip whitespace itself; it assumes that the calling function has done that. 14:03:09 huh, kwyjibo has a wiki entry 14:03:11 who knew 14:03:21 (or a redirect, at least) 14:03:55 The reason for that is that the only function that calls name_nospace_to_weapon is str_to_weapon, which *does*, and has to, strip whitespace. 14:04:15 ("To, strip". How's *that* for splitting an infinitive?) 14:05:12 no infinitive there, is there? it's 'does strip' 14:05:13 * wheals undertakes to eagerly split the inifinitive like a pig!!!! 14:05:20 <|amethyst> rchandra: "has to strip" 14:05:30 rchandra: two (implied) parallel phrases, "does strip" and "has to strip". 14:06:38 <|amethyst> To gently split an infinitive is no sin 14:06:44 Our mission: to, without remorse, mercy, or reservation of any kind, fully and finally split infinitives. 14:06:51 it's not a sin anyway 14:06:55 -!- Sorbius has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:07:25 <|amethyst> geekosaur: counterexample: "has to st---hey, look, a shiny!--rip whitespace" 14:07:28 it's only a sin if you're an 18th-century nerd 14:07:29 on the one hand I don't like prescriptivism. on the other, artic and nucular. 14:07:39 -!- ishanyx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:47 that's splitting a word though 14:07:49 <|amethyst> and that one actually splits the infinitive 14:07:58 <|amethyst> unlike "to gently split" 14:08:04 geekosaur: he's making an analogy to wider prescriptivism concerns 14:08:07 rchandra: and people saying "nonplussed" to mean "nonchalant". 14:08:15 which is kinda the whole point of why it's not a sin, and those that think so should just stick to latin and not bug the rest of us :p 14:08:44 <|amethyst> tswett: should be "plussed" :) 14:09:01 but then everyone will look for the <1+> button :p 14:09:10 Quod latine scriptum est tswett scribere non pote. 14:09:33 non++ed 14:09:59 poor ed 14:10:43 <|amethyst> Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnim mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam. 14:10:45 * geekosaur has recently been annoyed by people who use "of" for "-'ve" 14:11:48 for (int *ii = 0; ii < sizeof(Weapon_prop) / sizeof(weapon_def); ii++) 14:12:00 And to think I wondered why the compiler was complaining that I was comparing an int to a pointer. 14:12:18 they could of used "-'ve" in place've "of" 14:12:24 <|amethyst> tswett: protip: we have ARRAYSZ(Weapon_prop) for that division 14:12:33 |amethyst: ah, thanks. 14:13:02 And what type of thing is that? 14:13:15 <|amethyst> a macro 14:13:19 <|amethyst> because it can't work as a function 14:13:27 clearly it should be *ii = Weapon_prop, ii < Weapon_prop + sizeof(Weapon_prop) 14:13:30 <|amethyst> (because arrays decay to pointers in function arguments) 14:13:38 I mean, what type does the expression ARRAYSZ(Weapon_prop) have? 14:13:53 !cdefine ARRAYSZ 14:13:54 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/defines.h;hb=HEAD#l319 14:14:00 <|amethyst> tswett: size_t just like the expression you wrore 14:14:02 <|amethyst> wrote 14:14:07 <|amethyst> it's a size_t divided by a size_t 14:14:19 -!- noppa354 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:14:27 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/defines.h;hb=HEAD#l248 14:14:31 spot the bug :( 14:15:54 <|amethyst> wheals: You mean the locale? 14:16:02 !cdefine WPN_UNKNOWN 14:16:03 Couldn't find WPN_UNKNOWN in the Crawl source tree 14:16:24 is colour_t intended to be used *with* the higher flags? 14:16:24 <|amethyst> wheals: But then feature-data.h's macro is theoretically a problem 14:16:51 true, would have to change its name 14:17:08 Oh yeah, it's an enum. 14:17:17 oh 14:17:45 * geekosaur actually has trouble seeing that kind of thing now, have gone from code switching to just reading them as identical... 14:17:53 The compiler is complaining that I'm using Weapon_prop[ii].id as a weapon_type. I should probably just cast it. 14:19:07 <|amethyst> tswett: hm 14:19:41 <|amethyst> tswett: I wonder if it would be better to instead loop from (weapon_type) 0 to NUM_WEAPONS and use weapon_base_name 14:19:54 <|amethyst> tswett: if you did that, would you need direct Weapon_prop access at all? 14:20:30 Good question. 14:22:34 <|amethyst> wheals: any thoughts on putting things like "these are stairs", "these are arches", "these are wall" as flags in feature_def now ? 14:22:59 that's actually why i started this whole project :) 14:23:03 <|amethyst> :) 14:23:16 What do we do if we want to remove a weapon from the middle of the list? 14:23:17 <|amethyst> I had vague plans about that, but you beat me to it and did better than I would have 14:23:23 i bet MINMOVE and the other enum breakpoints would be the easiest to start with 14:23:51 making them flags would also allow us to have opaque floors! 14:24:01 well, more easily have 14:24:23 Do we just take it out and let the ones after it fall back by one position? 14:24:41 <|amethyst> tswett: no, keep it there, give it a dummy-ish name, and put #if TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 around it 14:24:57 |amethyst: *nod* 14:24:59 we did do what you said for spiked flails though 14:25:11 <|amethyst> wheals: shifted enums? 14:25:13 wheals: did it result in disaster? 14:25:15 but doing it requires more save work 14:25:24 no, there was just a minor tag version 14:25:42 |amethyst: do we leave a dummy entry in Weapon_prop? 14:25:59 <|amethyst> %git d6d3c1c 14:26:00 07kilobyte02 * 0.13-a0-2464-gd6d3c1c: Ensure no more sightings of spiked flails and empty ebony caskets. 10(12 months ago, 25 files, 22+ 48-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d6d3c1c7156c 14:26:06 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:09 <|amethyst> tswett: it needs an entry, yes 14:26:32 !messages 14:26:32 No messages for TZer0. 14:26:36 <|amethyst> COMPILE_CHECK(NUM_WEAPONS == ARRAYSZ(Weapon_prop)); 14:26:45 oh, huh 14:26:52 C++ programming is weird. 14:27:02 Not that this is necessarily a C++ thing. 14:27:06 i somehow never noticed BUGGY_FLAIL in wpn_type 14:27:14 er, weapon_type 14:27:55 oh 14:28:01 the enum was turned into WPN_ROD 14:31:00 -!- Isha has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:22 Ah bonkers. remove_whitespace doesn't. 14:32:56 -!- alefury has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:33:18 I guess a function taking a "string str" takes it as a copy. 14:33:24 <|amethyst> yes 14:33:27 <|amethyst> you want string &str 14:33:35 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:33:48 <|amethyst> (call-by-reference) 14:33:57 Yup. 14:35:59 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 14:36:20 Nomi (L18 HaDK) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 14:36:34 And changing a header file means recompiling stuff will take a long time. 14:36:35 <|amethyst> I guess I should rebuild CDO huh 14:37:07 I imagine there's a flag to make that says "pretend that after preprocessing, nothing has changed except for such and such". 14:37:33 <|amethyst> by default make doesn't even look at headers 14:37:37 <|amethyst> we make it do so 14:37:52 <|amethyst> otherwise you can get strange hard-to-diagnose errors 14:38:34 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2102-gacb6860 (34) 14:39:00 !version 14:39:01 trunk: 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9; 0.14: 0.14.1-26-g5a19342; 0.13: 0.13.2; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.3-19-g6f05415 14:39:04 <|amethyst> (like the one that made Chei's copy of 'monster' fail last night: I rebuilt monster itself but failed to do a full rebuild of the crawl objects it was linked to 14:39:58 |amethyst: ah, that's interesting. 14:41:26 'Twould be nice if this development version of Crawl didn't keep its save files and such in the same location as my "real" version of Crawl. 14:42:07 tswett: you could install them to different places 14:42:09 that's strange, my dev crawl always keeps its saves in . 14:42:22 ontoclasm1: I'm not installing the development version at all. 14:42:42 even when i'm in dat/des/branches or something 14:43:09 Obviously I should just do something like "sudo -u crawldevuser ./crawl" 14:43:39 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:43:41 NTS: putting a debug print statement *after* a return statement doesn't work. 14:43:53 You know what would be "cool"? 14:43:58 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:44:23 If, after the main() function finished, control flow proceeded to the bits after the various return statements that were run. 14:45:01 <|amethyst> :P 14:45:17 Because coroutines blah blah. 14:45:30 And obviously a function should never stop running without actually hitting the right brace. 14:48:03 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 14:49:24 -!- eki has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:49:37 tswett: are you one of those "single exit point" people" 14:50:25 I'm one of those "everything should behave in the most mathematically elegant manner possible even when that doesn't actually make sense" people. 14:50:32 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:02 that is certainly a sentence that it is possible to compose in english 14:51:08 write in INTERCAL with COME FROM statements 14:52:20 i feel like the answer will cause be pain, but does COME FROM do what i think it does 14:52:25 me* 14:52:33 ontoclasm1: I'm pretty sure it does, yes. 14:52:55 it's like goto, but you put it in the target code 14:53:08 Control flow goes to the COME FROM statement upon reaching the corresponding label. 14:53:25 okay, that's slightly less bad than i imagined 14:53:40 INTERCAL also has WRITE IN and READ OUT statements. 14:53:45 intercal is the best language 14:53:53 -!- ontoclasm1 is now known as ontoclasm 14:53:55 No, /// is the best language. 14:53:57 also a PLEASE keyword! 14:54:10 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:11 -!- flower has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:54:12 http://esolangs.org/wiki//// 14:54:40 -!- odiv_ is now known as odiv 14:55:03 -!- HaltingProblem has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:55:33 dang 14:55:37 -!- Isha has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:16 I assume you've seen Piet? Probably the prettiest esolang I've seen, if nothing else 14:56:17 perunasaurus (L19 HOWn) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 14:56:20 PleasingFungus: yep. 14:56:24 oh bloody hell, not this again 14:56:30 *groan* 14:56:49 -!- Kenran has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:26 ? 14:57:29 !crashlog 14:57:30 7993. perunasaurus, XL19 HOWn, T:54954 (milestone): http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/trunk/perunasaurus/crash-perunasaurus-20140714-195618.txt 15:00:45 -!- read has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:01:08 The master branch is at acb6860 right now, right? 15:01:15 %git 15:01:15 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2102-gacb6860: Make invisible monster indicator visible again. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=acb6860397ce 15:03:56 -!- read has joined ##crawl-dev 15:06:24 -!- corvin has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:08:09 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:08:42 -!- ishanyx has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:40 -!- Isha is now known as ishanyx 15:11:48 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:19 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:15:55 -!- tswett has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:44 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:45 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:38 -!- tswett has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:09 Now, it seems like we don't really use exceptions. 15:20:19 Or maybe we do and I just haven't seen them. 15:21:14 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:47 -!- phyphor has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:23:55 We largely do not use/catch exceptions, yes. I think there might be a one in files.cc? 15:29:44 -!- oblong has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:31:01 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:23 hey guys, i’m suddenly getting “Lua error: not enugh memory" 15:33:31 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8781 – new patch. 15:36:12 <|amethyst> also for level-gen (vetoes are exceptions) 15:36:16 <|amethyst> @version 15:36:18 <|amethyst> @versions 15:36:26 lobf: whilst doing what? 15:36:42 i was just moving around and then every command gave me that error 15:36:42 the comments in _create_special_weapon_map() re sling/qstaff are a little off - they're there for back-compat with old rcfiles, not shorthands (though I guess they can be that too???) 15:36:47 i restarted the applciation and it was fine 15:36:50 but that was weird... 15:36:52 <|amethyst> lobf: any custom lua? 15:36:59 nope 15:37:13 <|amethyst> lobf: online or local? 15:37:17 local 15:37:32 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:40 <|amethyst> do you happen to know whether you're using plain lua or luajit? 15:37:54 though I would love to know how to make my first Ds mut guaranteed so I don’t have to play through D:1 a thousand times so I don’t have a crappy game... 15:38:01 |amethyst: no idea 15:38:25 <|amethyst> did you compile yourself? 15:39:00 tswett: the braces around the if (name_nospace == weap_nospace) { } block are against our coding style 15:39:11 this is trivial, of course 15:39:17 |amethyst: I did compile myself 15:39:36 also, we've been trying to add @param and @return fields to all of our doxygen comments, though again that's not a big deal 15:39:43 eh 15:39:48 out of curiosity, are you a matlab programmer? 15:39:53 PleasingFungus: want me to fix the sling/staff comments and add those fields? 15:39:55 <|amethyst> lobf: hm, probably plain Lua. Hrm 15:40:02 No, I barely know anything about Matlab. 15:40:05 that'd be nice, yes 15:40:07 huh 15:40:13 I was surprised by the "ii" variable 15:40:37 Oh yeah. Some guy once said that was a good idea for some reason. 15:40:40 <|amethyst> yeah, I'd probably write just i, or idx if you really don't want a one-letter variable name 15:40:56 Fewer false positives when you're searching or something. 15:41:06 ii is a good idea if you're programming in matlab 15:41:07 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140710141843]] 15:41:16 unfortunately, it is also a bad idea, because it means you're programming in matlab 15:41:31 ^_^ 15:41:51 <|amethyst> I guess this was someone whose editor doesn't have useful regexps like \ 15:42:44 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:50 |amethyst, were you developing crawl back when "loopy" was still in use? 15:42:51 |amethyst: yeah, good point. 15:43:03 now that is a loop variable name... 15:43:12 I'll fix up the comments and deduplicate the ii. 15:43:27 and remove those braces! 15:43:31 then all will be well 15:43:36 As for the if statement, coding_conventions.txt says that the braces "may be" omitted around a one-line if statement. 15:43:38 <|amethyst> ./util/unbrace will do that for you 15:44:01 <|amethyst> tswett: I should change that to "should be" :) 15:44:23 <|amethyst> also that do-while example a few lines up 15:44:23 * tswett nods. 15:44:55 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: loopy is still being used :) 15:45:10 <|amethyst> !source mon-cast.cc:3037 15:45:10 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-cast.cc;hb=HEAD#l3037 15:45:22 whaaaa 15:45:26 <|amethyst> !source spl-other.cc:140 15:45:26 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/spl-other.cc;hb=HEAD#l140 15:45:32 whaaaaaaaa 15:45:56 at least it isn't still being declared c89 style... 15:46:54 <|amethyst> At least we don't have K&R function declarations 15:47:00 <|amethyst> (I imagine those are not allowed in C++?) 15:47:13 I honestly would not be surprised if they were allowed 15:47:50 ah 15:47:53 looks like they aren't 15:48:58 so there is at least one good thing about c++. 15:49:22 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:52:04 I like how "main;" is, theoretically, a valid C program. 15:52:27 isn't "" the shortest quite 15:52:29 *quine 15:53:29 I think it depends on compiler flags or something. 15:53:34 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: undefined reference to 'main' 15:53:34 (But that is the shortest quine in ///!) 15:53:53 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: though I guess as a shell script... 15:55:01 why are you telling me this? tell him! 15:55:12 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I was referring to "" 15:56:09 o 15:56:11 dang 15:56:29 let me see if I can find where I saw this 15:56:37 Is it just me, or when you try to upload to a ticket a file that has the same name as an existing file, does it delete the old file and fail to upload the new one? 15:57:13 http://www0.us.ioccc.org/1994/smr.hint 15:57:20 No, actually a *different* file has been deleted. Maybe someone deleted it intentionally. 15:57:45 Third patch is the charm? 15:57:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: look at the makefile 15:57:59 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it doesn't actually call ${CC} :) 15:58:27 treachery 15:58:37 tswett: I manually deleted the old one 15:58:39 since it was old 15:58:48 * tswett nods. 15:58:52 What would Jimbo Wales think? 15:59:17 <|amethyst> He'd refer it to arbcom 15:59:27 the "fail to upload" thing is known and probably intended 16:00:32 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:13 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:26 oh gammafunk! 16:02:28 I had an idea 16:02:39 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:00 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:29 -!- jaumoose has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:29 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:09 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:07 shunned by the 'funk... 16:15:18 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:08 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:10 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:54 PleasingFungus: you wouldn't happen to be able to take a quick look at the third version of the patch to see if it looks good? 16:20:16 I'm gonna head home now, actually. 16:20:20 See y'all later! 16:20:26 later 16:22:11 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:18 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 16:24:31 -!- tswett has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:25:44 vYxOr (L22 MiFi) ERROR in 'feature.cc' at line 196: ASSERT failed: feat of 162 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_FEATURES (162) (Vaults:1) 16:26:14 <|amethyst> $version 16:26:16 <|amethyst> $versions 16:26:18 trunk: 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9; 0.13: 0.13.2; 0.12: 0.12.3; 0.11: 0.11.3; 0.10: 0.10.4 16:27:02 <|amethyst> ah, was one version behind 16:27:21 %git 16:27:22 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2102-gacb6860: Make invisible monster indicator visible again. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=acb6860397ce 16:27:27 <|amethyst> don't need to rebuild CLAN for that bug (maybe for the { thing though) 16:27:57 <|amethyst> vYxOr was at 16:28:03 <|amethyst> %git 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301 16:28:03 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2098-gc971301: Fix reflected attack damage (PleasingFungus, doh) 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c97130181c2d 16:28:06 <|amethyst> clan has 16:28:10 <|amethyst> %git 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9 16:28:10 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-2099-gfb1bfb9: Don't crash when entering Vaults (#8793) 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb1bfb92929d 16:28:11 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:31:40 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:36:14 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:36:42 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 16:38:47 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 16:42:22 -!- DarkEternal has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:46:04 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:49:40 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: Bye] 16:54:37 -!- Hieropants has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:03:44 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-2102-gacb6860 (34) 17:06:44 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 17:06:47 master archers shouldnt unequip their bows pretty much ever, right? 17:06:48 Apol (L14 OgMo) ASSERT(a) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 701 failed. (No actor in stationary net at (41,23)) (D (Sprint)) 17:08:08 unless they go berserk, I think. possibly not even then. 17:08:10 why? 17:08:34 because one just did 17:08:34 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:08:40 then requipped it a little bit later 17:08:47 this happened at least twice 17:09:09 while berserk they shouldnt be able to unequip them 17:09:54 monsters cheat - they unequip ranged weapons " " before " " berserking (technically right after, but the messages are re-ordered) 17:10:03 I could upload a save, but it's dead now, so there probably isn't really a point to it 17:10:06 it wasn't berserk 17:10:09 ok 17:10:15 just a normal master archer, nothing special at all going on 17:10:20 it was just... unequipping its weapon? 17:10:46 yes 17:11:01 The arrow closely misses you. 17:11:02 You miss the deep elf master archer. 17:11:02 The deep elf master archer is severely wounded. 17:11:02 The deep elf master archer unwields an uncursed longbow. 17:11:02 The deep elf master archer completely misses you. 17:11:43 I guess it's trying to melee, but the master_archer flag should prevent that, iirc. 17:12:40 oh yeah, I was fighting it in melee 17:12:46 But it should usually just keep shooting 17:12:52 probably some problem with the new ranged weapons 17:13:15 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:27 probably 17:13:30 guess I'll report it on mantis 17:13:33 good call 17:14:31 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:01 oh. out of curiosity, was the dema drained at all? 17:15:14 that would be the other recent potentially relevant change that I can think of 17:15:48 -!- Naphistim has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:48 I don't think so 17:19:18 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:28 Master archer unequips their bow in melee 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8795 by Galefury 17:19:28 it's on mantis and I attached the save, so whoever wants to take a look can check the full message log 17:21:25 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:43 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:26:34 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:55 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 17:32:33 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:40 Unique Monster spawned twice! 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8796 by LordOrion 17:35:34 cute 17:37:03 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:55 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:42:59 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:04 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:04 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:50:14 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:11 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:58 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:18 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:21 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:04:35 <|amethyst> did it run out of ammo? 18:05:59 <|amethyst> oh, no 18:12:51 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:47 -!- Hieropants has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:15:27 !send |amethyst ammo 18:15:28 Sending ammo to |amethyst. 18:15:37 I wonder how often we are going to see that specific bug report :) 18:17:13 Grunt: The natasha one (8796) ? 18:17:27 pretty sure it's been reported before 18:17:40 it makes me smile every time 18:17:52 Natasha's description doesn't appear to mention the revive thing, maybe adding some text there would help. 18:17:54 I've definitely seen it at least once before, and I'm 90% certain it's been at least twice. 18:19:37 not sure about the description. it'd probably be nice to fix her death message, though 18:19:46 since that's a known bug 18:21:01 <|amethyst> death message doesn't matter if you're a stabber 18:21:04 <|amethyst> because there isn't one 18:21:41 Maybe the second comes into view message could be changed? 18:22:11 not a bad idea. what would we change it do? 18:22:13 *to 18:22:29 Natasha comes into view. Again. 18:22:48 <|amethyst> "Natasha, Servant of Life and Death" => "Natasha the Risen" 18:22:52 and again. and again. and aGain. and aGain. and aGain. 18:23:12 |amethyst: and then Natasha the Twice Risen 18:23:38 Natasha the Third Time's the Charm 18:23:56 <|amethyst> Grunt: just like bread! 18:24:13 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:24:19 mm. delicious natasha 18:24:52 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:12 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:41 of course, this whole discussion is predicated on the assumption that we want to get rid of "unique appears twice????" bug reports 18:27:46 I guess they'll stop being funny at some point 18:27:48 probably 18:29:28 that reminds me, when are unique titles getting taken back out 18:29:41 just right before release? 18:30:05 <|amethyst> // Highly-specialised archers are more likely to shoot than talk. (?) 18:30:06 <|amethyst> // If we're standing on liquefied ground, try to stand and fire! 18:30:06 <|amethyst> // (Particularly archers.) 18:30:06 <|amethyst> if (!teleport 18:30:06 <|amethyst> && ((liquefied && !archer && one_chance_in(9)) 18:30:08 <|amethyst> || (!liquefied && one_chance_in(archer ? 9 : 5)))) 18:30:10 <|amethyst> { 18:30:13 <|amethyst> return false; 18:30:15 <|amethyst> } 18:30:25 <|amethyst> looks like an archer has a 1/9 chance of not shooting 18:30:29 <|amethyst> and if it's next to you and doesn't shoot, it melees 18:31:04 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:39 <|amethyst> or, rather, it moves towards you, which bumps you, which turns into melee, which unwields the launcher 18:31:49 !tell PleasingFungus hunters start w/ a +1 weapon. Does that still make sense? 18:31:50 Lasty1: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 18:31:52 |amethyst: possibly add a check there for if you're not adjacent to the target 18:32:03 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:30 <|amethyst> Grunt: hm, since the adjacent check is below anyway 18:32:44 |amethyst: so merge the adjacent check upwards :) 18:33:00 if !teleport && ![adjacent] && [...] 18:34:14 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 18:34:30 Lasty1: I am currently informed that hunters are both under- and over-powered 18:34:30 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:34:42 so, not sure 18:34:46 "The first Time I've vanquised her, the second she killed me :-( " 18:34:54 gammafunk: !!! 18:34:55 wow, so that's actually happened 18:34:59 is that a record 18:35:03 hm 18:35:12 !lm * uniq=natasha lg:ckiller=natasha s=gid 18:35:13 624 milestones for * (uniq=natasha lg:ckiller=natasha): 2x Kurtz:cszo:20140229053422S, 2x Iamburgie:clan:20140420130758S, 2x squane:cszo:20140603090757S, 2x tormentor:ckr:20140222074912S, 2x ant87:clan:20140601200432S, 2x Spagget:cszo:20140419044430S, 2x Fuchur:cao:20140613140810S, 2x xw:cszo:20140324172425S, 2x Celsitudo:cao:20140614125309S, 2x Dragon:cao:20140503172038S, 2x Atenologic:cszo:20140... 18:35:17 aha! 18:35:22 (good xw) 18:35:23 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:23 PleasingFungus: Generally getting descriptions of a feature being both under- and over- powered means it's about right :D 18:35:33 that is the hope 18:35:39 !lg * gid=Kurtz:cszo:20140229053422S -log 18:35:39 1. Kurtz, XL7 MuAK, T:5693: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Kurtz/morgue-Kurtz-20140329-054936.txt 18:35:39 PleasingFungus: tha seems lik -- reaverb got there first 18:35:52 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:00 yeah, I feel like I've poked at it enough for a while. gonna let it sit for a little bit and let people play around 18:36:06 then maybe revisit it in a couple of weeks 18:36:06 * Grunt pokes PleasingFungus. 18:36:12 * PleasingFungus convulses! 18:36:16 * Grunt pokes PleasingFungus!!! 18:36:17 oh yeah that reminds me 18:36:33 PleasingFungus: I don'r know why underpowered, but just looking at the weapon stats the +1 seems better than average, but whatever :0 18:36:34 is it time to start talking about a feature freeze again? 18:36:51 er :) 18:36:55 imo we need to hunt down elliptic to get a sense of tournament timing before we discuss that 18:37:04 he was here yesterday! 18:37:09 Well the Gozag wrath should probably still be fixed IIRC. >_> 18:37:10 and then vanished, mysteriously 18:37:14 rip 18:37:29 ??0.15 18:37:30 0.15[1/1]: August 2014 18:37:34 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:37:49 !lm elliptic 18:37:49 39949. [2014-07-14 18:15:03] circular the Metallomancer (L24 GrWn of Qazlal) reached level 5 of the Depths on turn 52417. (Depths:5) 18:37:56 elliptic has better things to do than hang out in ##crawl-dev?! the fool! 18:38:10 p much 18:38:37 A hollow voice says "fool". 18:38:40 ??0.15 planning 18:38:40 0.15 planning ~ 0.15 plan[1/1]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:planning:0.15_plan 18:38:52 the hope for 0.15 release was mid-month, iirc; if we want to do that & have a month's feature freeze beforehand, we probably want to start thinking about wrapping new features up, well, now-ish 18:39:07 that's fairly up to date, but MPA removed Q's 6*, which...oh wait maybe I did get to that 18:39:22 * Grunt removes gammafunk. 18:39:29 a month's feature freeze seems maybe optimistic 18:39:38 what was it, two weeks last time? 18:39:43 ah 18:39:50 that was before my dev-ing 18:39:50 I guess it depends on your interpretation of 'feature freeze' 18:39:58 yeah I was kind of curious about that too 18:39:59 PleasingFungus: who told you hunters were underpowered 18:40:12 snow doesn't count 18:40:14 minmay: I'll find the quote in a sec 18:40:18 also I don't know who snow is!!! 18:40:22 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:40:33 Hu and Ne, both terribly underpowered 18:40:54 The Gozag wrath thing is probably the only design issue which might need addressing before 0.15, unless somebody wants to tweak item generation again. 18:41:25 reaverb: were you going to fix the weapon brand generation code at some point? (Or did that happen and I missed it?) 18:41:32 yeah I'm adding the min/max/sd fields and then need to finally regenerate those stats after the mild-double-counting 18:41:54 <|amethyst> The bug underlying the needle reflection thing may have other manifestations 18:41:55 * reaverb was vaguely hoping Grunt would forget about that <_< >_> 18:42:03 minmay: http://pastebin.com/8nzCm8uH It Came From SA 18:42:07 for items the stats aren't really off but certain highly 'localized' monsters are off 18:42:39 <|amethyst> but it doesn't look simple to determine which things should use the nominal attacker (the reflector) and which should use the real attacker 18:42:43 man, nobody's gonna crucify you if you don't do that, reaverb. 18:42:49 it ain't killing anyone to have bad brand code. 18:42:55 PleasingFungus: I think you should have stopped reading at "ranged fucking demon whip was already really, really weak" 18:42:57 well, except players, maybe. but who cares about them? 18:42:58 * Grunt starts setting out a row of crosses... 18:43:04 minmay: yeah, that's pretty silly 18:43:24 1learn add PleasingFungus well, except players, maybe. but who cares about them? 18:43:27 ??hunting sling 18:43:27 hunting sling[1/1]: 7-9 base damage (with stones & sling bullets respectively), 1.2 base delay, 0.6 mindelay. One-handed. Known as a {sling} in 0.14-. 18:43:30 ?? short bow 18:43:30 short bow ~ shortbow[1/1]: Like a {longbow}, but shorter. 1.1 base delay, 0.5 mindelay. Fires arrows. In 0.15, 8 base damage, 1.3 base delay, 0.6 mindelay. 18:43:37 "strictly worse" isn't true 18:44:15 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:22 PleasingFungus: Heh, Thanks. 18:44:23 hunting slings might have been 7-10 base damage at the time I made that post; I pushed sling bullets back to 4 damage a day or two ago 18:44:48 Well, that's still not strictly better . . . 7 is worse 18:44:55 I think this line is telling "My last three wins were all with archer characters, all of whom started after the ranged rebalance" 18:44:57 also launchers slings have 50% the chance to generate with brands as other launchers, because ??? brand code ??? 18:45:00 <|amethyst> strictly better if you're using the correct ammo 18:45:03 This poster is used to super-powered ranged weapons 18:45:04 <|amethyst> and not stones 18:45:25 -!- scummos| has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:37 I'm simultaneously told that sling bullets are in short supply and are also unlimited 18:45:39 |amethyst: bullets tend to be in shorter supply unless you get Shoals or go Trog/Oka 18:45:39 not really sure what to believe 18:45:51 sling bullets don't exist if you aren't with trog oka and are unlimited if you are 18:45:55 that's the source of that discrepancy i think 18:46:04 balance is hard. imho remove crawl 18:46:15 imo remove balance? 18:46:19 also solid 18:46:20 there's like 400-ish if you don't get Shoals iirc? 18:46:21 I think it's fine that Oka/Trog means unlimited ammo -- they're supposed to give you good weaponry, and good ammo effectively means good weaponry 18:46:32 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:01 hrm, can you multiply the mulch rate by the number generated to basically see how many shots you'll have? 18:47:04 ??mulch 18:47:04 mulching[1/3]: The chance of breakage is: 1/6 for curare and darts; 1/8 for sling bullets, stones, arrows, and bolts; 1/12 for non-curare needles; 1/20 for javelins; 1/30 for tomahawks (1/20 in 0.15); and 1/50 for large rocks (1/30 in 0.15). Throwing nets have a chance to be destroyed when struggled against. Thrown non-throwing weapons do not break. 18:47:09 Lasty1: the weird thing there is how it makes slings/xbows better than bows for oka-ites. though I guess that's not necessarily *bad* per se 18:47:15 oh no 18:47:16 heh 18:47:33 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2103-gd3366e8: Don't make adjacent archers melee 1/9 of the time (#8795, Grunt) 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d3366e803b08 18:47:35 that's not the way that probability works 18:47:56 it's an... approximation of the way that probability works 18:47:58 sort of 18:48:07 very roughly 18:48:16 PleasingFungus: I think you mean 18:48:18 ??grunt[$ 18:48:18 grunt[17/17]: ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) 18:48:19 probably 18:48:20 !!!! 18:48:23 :( 18:48:25 gammafunk: also I pinged you earlier about an idea I had about New-Lethal-Infusion 18:48:37 oh yay 18:48:42 well I pinged you because I wanted to talk about it but I didn't tell you what the idea was 18:48:46 it'll make you happy 18:48:50 I want to remove a charm!!! 18:48:52 PleasingFungus: well, it's probably bad to have strictly-worse-than-bows slings . . . though they are one handed . . . 18:48:59 and I don't want to make ne better 18:49:04 and I want to buff your beloved en 18:49:09 sort of 18:49:15 my...beloved...what now? 18:49:23 so you know how sure blade exists 18:49:25 PleasingFungus: So you're going to replace Sure Blade with Lethal infusion? 18:49:30 IE is beloved, Su is beloved 18:49:32 reaverb: you win the prize! 18:49:34 (new Leathal Infusion) 18:49:43 fr: fleafull infusion 18:49:46 gammafunk: weren't you complaining about how stabbers didn't have a way to stab in extended after the dazzlechange? 18:49:50 <|amethyst> 1/6 mulch rate means 5 shots on average; 1/30 means 29 shots etc 18:50:33 well, yeah, I was whining about that; I've literally played one stabber though, and it was a 3-runer 18:50:35 would a patch to make brand choice use random_choose_weighted be accepted 18:50:37 <|amethyst> 1/N * sum_{i=0}^\inf i * ((N-1)/N)**i 18:50:37 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:49 I guess I haven't thought that hard about whether they should have that 18:51:00 minmay: Yes, That's basically what I was planning to do, eventually <_< >_> 18:51:08 so I have no strong opinion there over that of people who have thought about it or feel strongly 18:51:32 It was just "kind of cool" that you could stab demons 18:52:13 If stabbers should be a able to stab in extended I think the best solution would be a high level hexes spell made for extended. 18:52:23 I did like MarvinPA's response to my question of what spells stabbers have in extended 18:52:28 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:52:28 "Apportation" 18:52:42 it was a good response 18:52:47 -!- Cerepol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:51 -!- Wehk has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:52:54 yes i don't see any problem with stabbing not continuing to let you oneshot everything forever 18:53:04 <|amethyst> reaverb: we do have Discord 18:53:10 <|amethyst> not sure how well it works in extended 18:53:27 basically my thought was (1) new draining has a strong synergy with hexes (2) sure blade is bad and dumb and probably unsalvagable (3) I still really want to do something with my lethal infusion rework. the only problem is that, even if it wasn't more powerful than existing hex spells, it'd make en more powerful in the early game just by virtue of giving them more options. which they... 18:53:28 Hm, I haven't seen Discord used there since the bugfix I did a while ago. 18:53:29 ...probably don't need 18:53:34 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:41 the whole hexes/stabbing/stealth thing is full of weird opinions tbh 18:53:55 eb_: what is your weird opinion on it?! 18:53:55 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: bad and dumb because it's a buff? 18:53:56 ? 18:54:02 eb_: I'm sure the people who hold those opinions think they're 18:54:04 ??grunt[$ 18:54:05 grunt[17/17]: ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) 18:54:05 charming 18:54:06 ???? 18:54:18 I could see those glasses coming from a mile away 18:54:25 I never liked hex-based stabbing because oneshotting things at near zero risk is.... I don't know, questionable 18:54:36 !send gammafunk glasses 18:54:37 Sending glasses to gammafunk. 18:54:37 and the "cost" isn't particularly high either 18:54:39 |amethyst: it is a badly designed buff, but there's no fundamentally interesting core to it 18:54:54 then again with dith you can do stealth oneshots nearly for free (if you ignore the god slot cost) 18:55:27 but even with dith stealth oneshots still require more thinking 18:55:29 I mean, I can imagine a good version of a lot of charms. but what is a "fixed" version of the "give shortblades +acc" charm? 18:55:39 something most people don't seem to realize is that you don't actually need stabbing to kill things trivially with hexes 18:55:47 also that 18:56:11 -!- DarkEternal_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:56:26 sure blade is pure theme and no actual mechanics. it's fluff. it's nothing 18:56:36 ?/closer to being 18:56:36 Matching entries (1): protip[5]: For the record, Sure Blade is far from useless both early and late in the game. If anything, the spell is closer to being overpowered than underpowered. --rwbarton 18:56:58 on a side note it's funny how some people consider stealth useless because you have no guarantees, but if you base your char around stabbing things with hexes and don't adapt you'll have a harder time in extended than if you went with tons of stealth and some actual smart play 18:57:20 then again nobody cares about extended so w/e 18:57:51 imagine a version of crawl in which extended was not optional 18:57:53 just imagine it 18:58:03 ??sure_blade 18:58:03 sure blade[1/2]: Level 2 Hexes/Charms spell that gives much higher to-hit but only works with short blades. Very useful, provided you're using short blades. Adds 4+1d(duration) to your *final* accuracy, capped at 14. 18:58:10 some people seem to think it is not 18:58:16 like two or three people 18:58:18 I had great fun with Sure Blade with my SpSk. 18:58:19 it wouldnt be bad if you removed tomb and abyss 18:58:25 and made pan not arbitrarily long 18:58:37 hi tabstorm 18:58:39 bye tabstorm 18:58:41 then it would be barely extended at all, hurr hurr 18:58:42 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140529030207]] 18:58:43 imo remove tabstorm 18:58:43 <_< 18:58:48 <|amethyst> So remove the two areas that aren't all demons? 18:58:48 well.. 18:59:00 no, make them not arbitrarily long 18:59:06 and merge crypt into tomb! 18:59:15 less slow zombies more tormenting mummies 18:59:25 also axe guardian mummies 19:00:05 they are just "Here, have a death curse!" 19:00:16 "it's not like i'm going to do damage.." 19:00:33 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:42 You may as well just have kamikaze mummies that bump into you and die with a curse because that's basically what they are 19:00:48 fr 19:00:48 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:54 if koboldlord ever comes in here again can someone tell him that my game has generated exactly 1 haste so far and i am in depths:5 19:01:04 dang thats even less than my ogbe 19:01:07 I seriously support that idea 19:01:08 that had two (2) 19:01:12 which one 19:01:17 kamikaze mummies 19:01:18 o 19:01:29 exploding mummy (08M) | Spd: 8 | HD: 7 | HP: 36-54 | AC/EV: 6/9 | Dam: 30 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(46), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 329 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:01:29 %??guardian mummy name:exploding_mummy n_rpl perm_ench:inner_flame 19:01:36 TS__: There were talks about making zombies walk at speed 10 (and nerfing them somehow so Ne isn't overpowered), it might happen in 0.16 19:01:38 (except that wouldn't target the curse properly <_<) 19:01:47 Well 19:01:48 !nerf reaverb 19:01:49 * Sequell nerfs reaverb!!! 19:02:04 the merge i mentioned would improve a number of things 19:02:12 1. mummies that can do something are better than buffed yaks 19:02:13 <|amethyst> reaverb: "So Ne isn't overpowered" ? 19:02:17 <|amethyst> reaverb: you mean yred? 19:02:18 af_curse and some black magic to kill itself on hit 19:02:26 2. less concentration of torment 19:02:33 reaverb: I don't think "crappier melee-only version of some other monster" is going to be an interesting random spawn even if you remove the speed malus 19:02:37 3. less fixed layouts that prmote stair dance 19:03:04 even if you removed 3 the concentration of torment would make tomb unbearable 19:03:05 <|amethyst> reaverb: oh doh 19:03:12 <|amethyst> reaverb: you said zombie, not mummy :) 19:03:26 I will remove the final haste potion if someone brings it up again 19:03:30 ??doh 19:03:31 |amethyst[1/11]: <|amethyst> doh 19:03:37 * Grunt removes gammafunk 19:03:39 !!! 19:03:48 that's three potions grunt, too many 19:04:00 * Grunt removes gammafunk??? 19:04:14 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it's a gozag offer 19:04:20 |amethyst: hah 19:04:21 haha 19:05:31 so monster distortion weapons are pre-identified now? 19:05:45 no? i just had one in a game that wanst 19:05:49 okay 19:05:53 nevermind then 19:05:53 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:55 maybe i wasnt updated 19:05:59 to the absolute latest version 19:06:05 is there a commit for it? 19:06:12 minmay: At least zombies have undead status (and therefore some unusal resistancs), you may be correct that zombies after the change would still not be interesting monsters, but even if so making zombies speed 10 would be good for allied zombies. 19:06:48 TS__: There isn't a ready-to-push commit for it (There's a mantis issue with a patch, but I have some concerns about it need to look at it) 19:06:56 why not let zombies just have move speed 10 but attack slowly? or is that the plan 19:07:11 Ts__: That was brought up as a possibility, yes. 19:07:24 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:07:25 what's the problem with it/ 19:07:38 TS__: What is "it" 19:07:54 the idea of giving zombies speed 10 move, speed whatever attack 19:07:56 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:33 seems mega spoilery 19:08:56 TS__: I didn't bring up a problem, it seems worth trying to me (but not so near the 0.15 feature freeze). Except of course the spoiler issu- yes. 19:09:00 You can xv for attack speeds relative to move speeds. 19:09:05 yea 19:09:13 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:09:16 oh, I didn't think that actually worked 19:09:19 It does now! 19:09:45 q: 19:10:10 why can't players just view the info that we see upon doing %??monster in the xv screen via a further prompt? 19:10:36 like "press i for more detailed information" 19:10:43 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:55 butbutbutbut 19:10:56 numbers 19:10:57 !!!! 19:11:22 well 19:11:23 <|amethyst> someone made an rc to do that 19:11:25 you aren't forced to see them 19:11:37 yeah but that rc option auto looks up every monster right? 19:11:44 you dont always want to see it 19:11:47 gretell.rc 19:11:50 but maybe you want to check something's speed 19:12:03 or resist, MR, etc. 19:12:08 TS__: lua magic could probably solve whatever inteface issues are with gretell.rc 19:12:45 Maybe, but why not just put it in by default as an option for the player rather than needing them to browse the tavern to find it 19:13:33 because throwing a ton of mostly unimportant numbers at the player is not helpful 19:13:47 !send MarvinPA numbersnumbersnumbers 19:13:47 Sending numbersnumbersnumbers to MarvinPA. 19:14:24 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: Though I do wonder why we provide access to monster in ##crawl 19:14:27 but, if it was a "Press whatever to see detailed information", the player isnt required to view them.. but it's convenient if they want to view them and they don't have access to IRC, internet etc.. 19:14:38 -!- Nomi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:14:57 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: since it makes people think those numbers are important 19:15:03 ##crawl isn't in the game 19:16:19 if people want to go out of their way to look that stuff up then fine, building it in implies it is particularly important or helpful 19:16:46 or it should imply that! obviously it wouldn't if the game just threw everything at you 19:17:03 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:04 well, maybe not important, but it's probably helpful for some people.. 19:17:17 maybe theyre just under an illusion that it's helpful 19:17:29 <|amethyst> perhaps some javascript (a browser extension maybe) to linkify monster names into learndb web lookups 19:17:45 <|amethyst> would be technically better than how gretell.rc works 19:17:53 <|amethyst> s/would/it would/ 19:18:11 <|amethyst> (but wouldn't work in console or local tiles obviously) 19:18:22 I mean, having something like "Press i for detailed info about this enemy" and display all this info would be hard to code (?) so 19:18:30 maybe not 19:18:31 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:16 <|amethyst> might get more traction with suggestions that fit into the current model. For example, displaying in the monster description information (not numbers) about monster base damage etc 19:20:28 <|amethyst> we've certainly been expanding what is shown in xv 19:20:53 <|amethyst> one problem with numbers is that either: 1. you don't document what they mean, so they're useless to people who don't source-dive or read learndb anyway 19:20:58 i feel like dam and hp are things that could be useful to know 19:21:10 well, I think players can be expected to know what HP means 19:21:13 well, hp maybe not since you don't really know how much damage you do 19:21:20 <|amethyst> or 2. you do document what they mean, and expose nasty formulas to the user 19:21:23 unles you're reading !!!'s 19:21:26 i guess that's true 19:21:58 <|amethyst> I guess not "useless" because you can compare with other monsters 19:22:02 because your damage potential is also hidden 19:22:07 but at least you can know 19:22:11 that a monster can do roughly alot damage 19:22:21 your damage is only semi-hidden 19:22:28 thanks to the exclamation marks 19:22:34 like i said if you check !!!s 19:22:39 Bloax: the meaning of the exclamation marks is also hidden 19:22:40 and know what those mean 19:22:44 you have a range 19:22:45 <|amethyst> If a monster's damage is listed in-game 30 and it one-shots you from 45, players *will* complain 19:22:56 <|amethyst> s/in-game/in-game as/ 19:23:03 uh 19:23:08 so is that it's average damage 19:23:08 <|amethyst> because it had a weapon 19:23:17 if a monster's damage is listed as 45 and it oneshots you from 45 players will complain as well so 19:23:21 <|amethyst> or drank a potion of might 19:23:31 45? 19:23:34 <|amethyst> (well, maybe not might) 19:23:38 !lg . x=dam 19:23:39 1483. [dam=45] gammafunk the Convoker (L13 HESu of Sif Muna), hit from afar by a stone giant (large rock) on Vaults:3 on 2014-07-14 11:29:18, with 45305 points after 12260 turns and 2:11:52. 19:23:48 unfair imo 19:23:51 <|amethyst> poor gammafunk 19:23:59 i think antaeus did a 70 to me once 19:24:02 I can prove that it shouldn't have happened 19:24:12 i had 50 ac as well.. 19:24:27 another thing is af:whatever 19:24:36 for instance, if you fight an azure jelly or ice fiend without rc 19:24:46 <|amethyst> I think AF_* would be good to display in xv 19:24:46 TS__: he threw large rocks through two shadow creatures twice; should have just quaffed a cure in case! 19:24:48 or antaeus 19:24:49 <|amethyst> with appropriate text 19:24:50 sure you can see "it can attack to cause cold" or whatever 19:25:15 <|amethyst> another thing is making monster special abilities into spells 19:25:16 Ice Fiend (161) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 76-121 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 2512(cold:18-53), 2512(cold:18-53) | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 2892 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), s.torment | Sz: Large | Int: high. 19:25:16 %??ice fiend 19:25:28 <|amethyst> it needs a big change to the spell framework, but it would make a lot more stuff visible in xv 19:25:28 but you dont know it can do (25,25)(af:18-53) 19:25:32 i.e. 1 hit you from 150hp 19:25:43 %git :/Describe monster attack flavours 19:25:43 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-404-g6033fda: Describe monster attack flavours in their descriptions 10(3 months ago, 8 files, 173+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6033fda4df73 19:25:45 |amethyst: ^ 19:26:00 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:01 like i said i know that it is described in xv what it does 19:26:04 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: oh, right, you're from the future :) 19:26:11 but the player is gonna find out the hard way that it does that much 19:26:53 |amethyst: you even advised me when i was making that patch i think :P 19:26:57 HD is good to know too if you use dazzling spray, since some things have unexpectedly high/low HD 19:27:07 aside from some magic of "this monsters XXX attack could kill you in one turn" 19:27:13 I'm not sure what we could do about that 19:27:16 <|amethyst> "It can hit for up to 153 damage, except when it does more." 19:27:18 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:27:25 <|amethyst> err, 156 19:27:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:27:51 I must express my disappointment at you people honestly considering putting numbers up there for everyone to see 19:27:55 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:07 Well gamma i was just saying how it would be cool if you could see that info you get from %?? if you wish to 19:28:07 <|amethyst> Who is considering that? 19:28:16 I thought some of you were 19:28:24 No just me and im not a dev so dont worry 19:28:35 <|amethyst> eb_: I think "It hits hard.", "It hits very hard." etc wouldn't be unreasonable 19:28:41 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:48 there was talk of maybe allowing bot queries in e.g. tiles chat, but that's just talk 19:28:49 that is actually very reasonable 19:28:50 <|amethyst> It hits like a choko. 19:29:16 I'm just permanently afraid of a slipperly slope 19:29:25 Heug, extremely Heug, incredibly heug dmg 19:29:30 even if the slope is barely noticeable and it takes ten years to get there 19:29:51 -!- bcode has quit [Quit: :tiuQ] 19:30:02 <|amethyst> "It hits for three exclamation points worth of damage." 19:30:09 Well, what I was saying would not be required for the player to view.. it's just so that you don't need to have internet if you wish to remind yourself of some detail that is obscured 19:30:16 It hits like a fountain. 19:30:37 TS__: probably the simplest thing is to just have people use the web-interface to monster 19:30:37 It casts spells at the same strength as Cerebov. 19:30:42 Maybe this is considered bad because new players would always look at the detailed info and get confused? 19:31:03 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:31:10 uh 19:31:18 isnt that dead 19:31:18 the bot on develz.org 19:31:25 if that is what youre referring to 19:31:49 TS__: it's not even that simple; the stats you see from %?? are from a sample; although to be fair I guess you could run that for each monster during the build and incorporated it 19:32:16 not to mention not a few of those outputs are incorrect 19:32:19 "the stats you see from %?? are from a sample" 19:32:20 like the 42d1 thing 19:32:21 what? 19:32:30 s/not a few/quite a few/ 19:32:37 <|amethyst> TS__: as in, it rolls up a monster and has it attack you 19:32:38 yea i mean there are some known errors that would need to be fixed 19:32:41 goblin (15g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 30 | HP: 99-144 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | XP: 5268 | Sp: glaciate (42d1) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 19:32:41 %?? goblin hd:30 spells:glaciate 19:32:42 <|amethyst> TS__: and repeats that 100 times 19:32:44 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:32:58 TS__: it has to do that because we can't just 'solve' to get the math 19:33:27 what, I thought the base dam was like.. a constant feature of all monsters 19:33:29 -!- HaltingProblem has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:33:30 !send gammafunk solutions 19:33:30 Sending solutions to gammafunk. 19:33:40 TS__: base damage yes, but many other things are not so simple 19:33:46 and you'd want to see what %??, right? 19:33:50 *shows 19:33:58 Basically except for XP 19:34:02 i dont care about that 19:34:18 what things are samples in particular 19:34:22 <|amethyst> XP is an average 19:34:42 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 205 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 19:34:42 <|amethyst> %??yak 19:34:44 HP, the range you see 19:34:45 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 25 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 160 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 19:34:45 <|amethyst> %??yak hp:25 19:34:48 yak (07Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 18 | Res: 06magic(28) | XP: 253 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 19:34:48 <|amethyst> %??yak hp:53 19:35:00 some monsters have variable HD, remember 19:35:09 which one? shifters? 19:35:20 i cant remember 19:35:23 hell beast (072) | Spd: 10-17 | HD: 7 | HP: 40-97 | AC/EV: 4/9 | Dam: 28, 2007(trample) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(28), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 445 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:35:23 %??hell_beast 19:35:30 off the top of my head, or is that just speed, sorry 19:35:32 pan lords 19:35:35 that's a notable one 19:35:46 unknown monster: "pandemonium lordf" 19:35:46 <|amethyst> %??pandemonium lordf 19:35:47 pandemonium lord (04&) | Spd: 10-19 | HD: 26 | HP: 107-245 | AC/EV: 14/14 | Dam: 42 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, !sil | Res: 06magic(173), 05fire++, 02cold++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5194 | Sp: (random) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 19:35:47 <|amethyst> %??pandemonium lord 19:36:02 forget their range, but it goes from a little to a lot 19:36:09 yeah, that would be a problematic one 19:36:37 if someone is at the point where pan lords appear 19:36:52 I think for pan lords it'd be fair to just say "beware, anything can happen" 19:36:55 <|amethyst> Anyway, technical problems can be overcome, but even if they are I don't think we would put the numbers from monster in game 19:37:16 I understand it will never be done for ideological reasons. but i still would like it 19:37:45 you just have to be unkillable so that you don't even need to worry about the numbers anymore 19:37:45 "ideological" makes it sound like it is some unjustifiable decision 19:38:02 ok, "philosophical" 19:38:09 <|amethyst> I think "ideological" is fair 19:38:10 i thought i was unkillable earlier 19:38:19 and then lom lobon did tornado glaciate x3 ded 19:38:25 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38:37 <|amethyst> Maybe someone (dpeg?) should write up something about numbers for section N 19:38:39 did you really die to lom lobon 19:38:48 !lg * ikiller=lom_lobon 19:38:48 23. Tabstorm the Severer (L25 VSBe of Trog), blasted by Lom Lobon (great icy blast) in Pandemonium (lom_lobon) on 2014-07-14 15:50:37, with 609289 points after 28159 turns and 4:14:20. 19:39:02 rip 19:39:14 that was gonna be a sub 35k run too 19:39:18 !lg * ikiller=lom_lobon x=urune 19:39:19 23. [urune=7] Tabstorm the Severer (L25 VSBe of Trog), blasted by Lom Lobon (great icy blast) in Pandemonium (lom_lobon) on 2014-07-14 15:50:37, with 609289 points after 28159 turns and 4:14:20. 19:39:21 <|amethyst> I mean, more detailed than what's in the "Clarity" section, since that just says "we believe that qualitative feedback is often better than 19:39:24 <|amethyst> precise numbers" 19:39:35 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:37 "You will probably die." 19:39:42 -!- Hailley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:47 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:51 also apparently tornado does more damage closer to the source? 19:39:57 i didnt know that but someone told me it does 19:40:45 am I to understand that you had anti-magic weapon and anti-magic bite and he still did all that 19:40:59 well, only 6 more hellpan lords to die to before I've died to all of them.. 19:41:06 no, i never got a hit off 19:41:13 i was walking up to him (error) 19:41:17 and then he tornados 19:41:27 so im like ok 40 AC whatever.. its physical damage right 19:41:30 im rc++ 19:41:33 i get glaciated 19:41:40 ok lets just walk to the rune and tele out instead of fighting 19:41:49 can you take this to ##crawl 19:41:49 glaciated again 19:42:02 I mean just watch the tv gamma 19:42:14 dosent need narration 19:43:08 Speaking of that, what is the deal with the 42d1 thing in %?? 19:43:52 <|amethyst> monster needs to but doesn't special-case the damage on that one 19:43:57 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:44:10 <|amethyst> 42d1 is usually a tracer or some other beam that needs a damage number but doesn't actually do damage 19:44:21 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10433 | Sp: glaciate (42d1), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range | Sz: Large | Int: high. 19:44:21 <|amethyst> %?? lom lobon 19:44:26 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 2 | Sp: glaciate (42d1) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 19:44:26 <|amethyst> %?? kobold spells:glaciate 19:44:33 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:34 |amethyst: no good way to do that without duplicating all the special-casing in the monster casting function? 19:45:05 <|amethyst> put the actual damage amount on the beam perhaps 19:45:12 another one is 19:45:13 <|amethyst> since that's what monster looks like 19:45:15 naga sharpshooter (15N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 9 | HP: 58-85 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 503(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(72), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 831 | Sp: portal projectile (42d1) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:45:15 %??naga sharpshooter 19:45:39 well PP is even harder, since that spell doesn't do damage 19:45:46 er, well 19:45:48 <|amethyst> that makes it easier :) 19:45:53 heh 19:45:55 <|amethyst> easier to special-case anyway 19:46:03 Well, it's just the damage of the launcher right? 19:46:17 TS__: so which launcher? 19:46:34 oh, right, they dont all use crossbows 19:46:43 well that and brand, etc 19:46:53 enchant as well 19:47:19 I mean it's all really complicated if you factor in weapons at all 19:47:28 So what sort of range would it actually have for damage from a ranged attack? 17 + damage from let's say xbow? 19:47:46 and does master archer give it a boost to dam? 19:47:55 yeah.... 19:47:55 idk i just know that they do a lot of damage 19:48:01 roughly 19:48:05 why do normal sharpshooters have portal projectile 19:48:11 monster weapon damage is additive, and I think ranged is the same way 19:48:23 How much does master archer add? 19:48:41 also are there multiple archer flags 19:48:44 master archer uses their melee damage in some way 19:49:16 well, this would definitely be a confusing one to show the player because of all the flags 19:49:58 TS__: it's kind of complicated, there's a to-hit bonus, and additive random damage bonus 19:50:47 Yeah, i'm just saying that this is a case where the "showing the player numbers" would be confusing because the base damage is misleading 19:50:51 !function ranged_attack::apply_damage_modifiers 19:50:51 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/ranged_attack.cc;hb=HEAD#l380 19:50:52 because of all the flags 19:51:13 Well that's partly why the "no numbers" philosophy is a pretty good one 19:51:13 all i know is those dudes can do a lot of damage very accurately 19:51:19 naga sharpshooter (15N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 9 | HP: 58-85 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 17, 503(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, master archer, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(72), 03poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 831 | Sp: portal projectile | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:51:19 <|amethyst> %??naga sharpshooter 19:51:21 <|amethyst> fixed 19:51:32 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 19:51:34 yeah, I think it'd be mostly OK, except for some cases like this one 19:51:43 |amethyst is a monster! 19:52:01 |amethyst: you monster 19:52:10 is crawl's combat code really messy? 19:52:30 No |amethyst, you are the bots. And then |amethyst was a monster. 19:52:34 that glaciate discussion made it sound a little complicated 19:52:53 <|amethyst> $ wc -l melee_attack.cc attack.cc throw.cc ranged_attack.cc 19:52:53 <|amethyst> 4141 melee_attack.cc 19:52:53 <|amethyst> 2104 attack.cc 19:52:53 <|amethyst> 1210 throw.cc 19:52:53 <|amethyst> 879 ranged_attack.cc 19:52:55 <|amethyst> 8334 total 19:53:09 <|amethyst> and that's not counting spells 19:53:14 Dang 19:53:37 <|amethyst> (and part of the ranged attack sequence goes through the same beam code that spells use, also not counted above) 19:53:45 <|amethyst> wc -l beam.cc 19:53:45 <|amethyst> 6667 beam.cc 19:53:50 <|amethyst> FR: don't change that ever 19:53:54 heh 19:53:58 <|amethyst> unless you maybe delete one line 19:54:03 one line off 19:54:10 beam.cc being home to one of the most notorious classes in crawl 19:54:23 <|amethyst> "Conjurer" 19:54:32 <|amethyst> oh, you didn't mean that kind of class 19:54:58 should have said struct 19:55:42 <|amethyst> !learn add beam.cc Q: What's the difference between a bolt and a beam? A: One leg is both the same. 19:55:43 beam.cc[1/1]: Q: What's the difference between a bolt and a beam? A: One leg is both the same. 19:56:59 I usually see that as "one of its legs is both the same" 19:57:01 <_< 19:57:16 <|amethyst> btw, what *is* the damage for glaciate? 19:57:27 <|amethyst> if someone knows, before I go diving for it 19:57:35 you could put dam:alot and it would be enough 19:57:50 |amethyst: it scales with distance, but you can just use the maximum 19:57:52 <|amethyst> ah, I guess it wasn't so hard 19:57:58 well it depends on the target's range to caster 19:58:05 <|amethyst> calc_dice(10, (54 + 3 * pow / 2) / eff_range); 19:58:17 eff_range is minimum 3 iirc 19:58:27 (eff the range of that spell....) 19:58:40 <|amethyst> and max of 6 ? 19:58:45 yes 19:58:49 the 10 version is for players, IIRC? 19:58:57 <|amethyst> caster->is_player() 19:58:57 <|amethyst> ? calc_dice(7, (66 + 3 * pow) / eff_range) 19:58:57 <|amethyst> : calc_dice(10, (54 + 3 * pow / 2) / eff_range); 19:58:58 What is Pow for a monster? 19:59:01 Grunt: mean it does the same damage for targets from 1-3 tiles away? 19:59:05 *meaning 19:59:06 oh right 19:59:14 gammafunk: correct 19:59:45 I guess in an ideal world, the targetter would somehow indicate damage falloff 20:00:13 * Grunt falls off. 20:00:32 Great, now we have to put him back together 20:00:36 just remove the damage falloff 20:01:49 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:35 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:05:07 -!- ontoclasm1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:20 is tiamat supposed to switch from her polearm to a rod? 20:08:57 <|amethyst> she doesn't have a signature weapon 20:09:06 <|amethyst> so nothing would stop her 20:09:21 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10433 | Sp: glaciate (10-132), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range | Sz: Large | Int: high. 20:09:21 <|amethyst> %??lom lobon 20:09:27 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 2 | Sp: glaciate (10-24) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:09:27 <|amethyst> %??kobold spells:glaciate 20:09:31 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 2 | Sp: glaciate (10-24) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:09:31 <|amethyst> %??kobold hd:1 spells:glaciate 20:09:45 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 1 | Sp: glaciate (10-6018) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 20:09:45 %??test spawner spells:glaciate 20:09:52 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 316-391 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(133) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 15000 | Sp: glaciate (10-618) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:09:52 <|amethyst> %??kobold hd:100 spells:glaciate 20:09:58 a little variance there 20:10:11 <|amethyst> the minimum is very very unlikely at those damage numbers 20:10:17 <|amethyst> but this isn't sampling 20:10:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:09 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=monster-trunk.git;a=commitdiff;h=c070578 20:11:25 I like the swim: 60% for test spawner 20:12:01 10-132, dang 20:12:34 <|amethyst> 10 is pretty much always the minimum 20:12:40 <|amethyst> unless the monster is casting with 0 HD 20:12:48 -!- Guest28427 has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:12:52 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 2 | Sp: glaciate (10-24) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:12:52 %??kobold hd:0 spells:glaciate 20:12:55 dang 20:12:58 <|amethyst> it's essentially 10d(max damage/10) 20:13:04 can monsters exist in game with 0 HD? 20:13:13 or at least exist for a player's turn 20:13:21 <|amethyst> they couldn't a few days ago 20:13:26 <|amethyst> I don't know how that works now 20:13:29 <|amethyst> with temp draining 20:13:34 the sad thing? 20:13:41 <|amethyst> ah 20:13:45 <|amethyst> it still floors at 1 20:14:03 I'm sure that revelation just 20:14:06 ??grunt[$ 20:14:07 grunt[17/17]: ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) 20:14:08 floors you 20:14:09 !!! 20:14:09 horrible idea 20:14:20 <|amethyst> also, if we added diminishment it could be lower 20:14:23 an early game enemy that uses glaciate (with HD1) 20:14:28 <|amethyst> oh 20:14:32 <|amethyst> but even that would have to floor 20:14:42 <|amethyst> I remember now why we capped monsters at 1 HD 20:14:49 <|amethyst> it crashed some of the spell formulas 20:14:53 <|amethyst> to have power 0 20:15:29 -!- negatendo has quit [Quit: poop] 20:16:46 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:47 <|amethyst> I don't remember what the spell that crashed was, but it was one of jessica's 20:17:51 Jessica (15@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 10 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(4) | Vul: 08holy | XP: 25 | Sp: pain (d7), slow, haste, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 20:17:51 <|amethyst> %??jessica 20:18:45 -!- rbrrk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:19:10 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:19 -!- neunon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:34 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 2 | HP: 4-10 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(2) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 13 | Sp: glaciate (10-30) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:19:34 <|amethyst> %??kobold hd:2 spells:glaciate 20:19:43 kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 6-15 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(4) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 36 | Sp: glaciate (10-36) | Sz: small | Int: normal. 20:19:43 <|amethyst> %??kobold hd:3 spells:glaciate 20:19:50 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 11433 | Sp: fire storm (8d23), glaciate (10-198) / fire storm (8d24), glaciate (10-198) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 20:19:50 %??orb of fire spells:fire_storm;glaciate 20:20:01 Dang 20:20:04 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 20:20:09 <|amethyst> .echo $(* 8 23) 20:20:09 184 20:20:26 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:21:41 .echo $(* 8 24) 20:21:42 192 20:23:16 hrm, what's the header I need to include to get sqrt for dcss? 20:23:21 I guess I should just grep sqrt 20:23:55 oh, seems it is just math.h 20:24:40 or to be more precise 20:24:47 <|amethyst> gammafunk: on a float or an integer? 20:24:56 |amethyst: a float 20:25:04 <|amethyst> ah, then that or 20:25:23 <|amethyst> (the latter being more C++y) 20:25:32 adding the SD for item/monster counts over iterations (and the min/max) 20:25:35 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:53 so I can remove more haste potions 20:27:27 pls 20:27:29 no 20:27:29 <|amethyst> gammafunk: remember to use 1/(N-1) instead of 1/N 20:27:36 of course :) 20:27:49 <|amethyst> I always forget :) 20:27:51 (but I did that and forgot check for dividing by 0) 20:28:11 |amethyst: it is the ML estimate at least! 20:28:26 if you use 1/N I mean, it's just biased 20:29:04 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:49 <|amethyst> You mean, I median 20:30:15 someone give him the glasses 20:30:52 -!- bencryption has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 20:32:37 -!- Textmode has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:51 !tell pleasingfungus FWIW, HaHu can use hunting sling from d:1 to L:2 without any trouble. Bullets are in short supply, but there are enough to kill anything very dangerous. I enchanted the sling once and vorpalized it to fire. Yaks and black mambas die before reaching me. 20:41:51 Lasty1: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:42:16 !tell pleasingfungus I think the stone damage needs to be toned down slighty, at the very least. 20:42:16 Lasty1: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 20:42:33 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:53 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:49:43 Hm, that's funny. 20:49:48 -!- mamgar_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:50 Shift doesn't work with the numpad keys. 20:51:27 <|amethyst> probably that depends on your terminal 20:51:45 <|amethyst> or possibly it doesn't work on any terminal 20:52:02 <|amethyst> it works in SDL and webtiles 20:53:15 <|amethyst> (though numpad 5 seems to differ between those two) 20:55:03 -!- vivec has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:55:22 -!- vivec has joined ##crawl-dev 20:55:34 anyone around? 20:56:07 Nope. 20:56:17 We're all busy plotting the next brilliant way to kill players. 20:56:59 lmfao 20:57:10 do you think you could help me with something probably very trivial for you? 20:57:34 What constitutes "trivial" varies considerably between most of us, but by all means ask :) 20:59:15 <|amethyst> "I get three questions? Really? Hm, what to ask?" *poof* The genie disappears. 20:59:21 <3 20:59:48 (|amethyst provides the high wit here; I provide the puns <_<) 21:00:03 -!- _miek is now known as __miek 21:00:36 -!- __miek is now known as _miek 21:00:44 <|amethyst> High wit to the danger zone 21:00:57 I want to find out how to change what I start with 21:01:06 What do you mean? 21:01:12 ..What are wyverns doing above d:6 21:01:13 I used to change the starting vault and the weight but that seems like a lot of unecessary changes 21:01:20 <|amethyst> You want to mod your game to give more starting equipment? 21:01:37 Or different starting equipment. 21:01:38 exactly 21:01:50 Are you familiar with the source code to any extent? 21:01:58 -!- renftw has quit [] 21:02:07 I was hoping to not have to compile and recompile 21:02:07 <|amethyst> look into ng-setup.cc 21:02:10 because I dont have a lot of experience 21:02:14 Specifically _give_items_skills 21:02:30 <|amethyst> without recompiling, a guaranteed entry vault is the simplest way 21:02:33 What are you trying to accomplish with your newfound items? 21:03:06 I was hoping to give a bunch of mutation potions to basically have a lottery everytime I start the game 21:03:42 (you could play Demonspawn a lot <_<) 21:04:10 Depending on if you want your games to be tracked or not, you could always wizmode up a stack of mutation potions at game start. 21:04:32 <|amethyst> for (int i = 0; i < 10; i++) mutate(RANDOM_MUTATION, "background radiation", false); 21:04:40 yeah, that was the other alternative 21:04:44 I guess entry vault is the easiest way 21:04:52 whats the easiest way to do the entry vault ? 21:04:59 you could even macro entering wizmode and spawning a bunch of mutpots and quaffing them all 21:05:06 which is probably the easiest of all 21:05:13 thats a good idea actually 21:05:19 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:30 !send bh background radiation 21:05:31 Sending background radiation to bh. 21:05:47 Bad idea: Ring of Distortion. Gives you a big EV bonus, sometimes swaps spaces with someone who's trying to whack you, inflicts tloc miscasts if you remove it. 21:06:01 That sounds like an unrand of some sort. 21:06:03 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:17 -!- raskol has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:30 <|amethyst> how big an EV bonus 21:06:41 <|amethyst> trying to be competitive with shaolin? 21:06:49 ??phase shift 21:06:49 phase shift[1/1]: Level 5 translocation spell, temporary +8 EV. Found in the Book of the Warp, the Book of Dreams, and Xom's random spell list. Duration can be extended via recasting to a maximum of 30 turns. Replaced forescry (div 5) in 0.6. 21:06:51 <|amethyst> because two downsides is a lot 21:06:51 hm 21:06:53 -!- debo has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:07 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:45 12.5% chance of phasing out of reality 21:07:58 what's not to love? :) 21:08:14 the randomly reposition is probably an awful idea. It would annoy players 21:08:28 EV+10/12 plus distort? 21:09:07 <|amethyst> Doesn't really seem thematic 21:09:15 <|amethyst> also, would you ever take off an EV + 12 item? 21:09:20 hrm, tileschat had a cute idea: 21:09:21 Random reposition is really, really, really annoying. 21:09:25 cf. Rearrange the Pieces 21:09:43 There's a kiku overflow vault with a ton of dry fountains. SomeFlowers suggested that they fill with blood if you join Kiku 21:09:52 !send bh Lua black magic 21:09:52 Sending Lua black magic to bh. 21:10:01 Grunt: I gots no lua magick 21:10:12 <|amethyst> that sounds easy enough I might be able to do it 21:10:43 <|amethyst> bh: who suggested it? 21:10:53 !lg someflowers 21:10:54 371. SomeFlowers the Digger (L2 MuEE), safely got out of the dungeon on 2014-07-15 01:05:46, with 9 points after 581 turns and 0:01:38. 21:11:26 <|amethyst> this one? 21:11:33 <|amethyst> !vault kennysheep_vampire_church 21:11:33 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des;hb=HEAD#l975 21:11:47 yessum 21:11:55 <|amethyst> hm 21:12:02 ??hm 21:12:03 |amethyst[2/11]: <|amethyst> hm 21:12:06 <|amethyst> I bet we don't have a Lua trigger for worship 21:12:27 <|amethyst> stepping on the altar would be easier but I guess not as cool? 21:12:43 |amethyst: the way to do it right now would be something a los trigger which checks you.god (or whatever the property is) 21:12:54 stepping on the altar would be neat 21:13:06 Grunt: what if you exit the altar without seeing the fountains after converting? :) 21:13:25 <|amethyst> kind of difficult because there are four fountains adjacent to the altar :) 21:13:52 bh: LOS on the altar itself, I mean. 21:14:03 ah 21:14:13 <|amethyst> the problem is, what if you walk into the vault when you're already worshipping Kiku 21:14:54 <|amethyst> just to verify, blood fountains do nothing now, right? 21:15:20 yes 21:15:36 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:19:06 -!- jday_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:37 -!- noppa354 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:25:14 how does labs vault connectivity work? 21:25:30 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:48 bh: making a lab vault, or investigating a lab vault, or? 21:26:09 Grunt: I'd like to make a lab vault where some walls are replaced with trees 21:26:21 bh: an ending or a minivault? 21:27:09 mini 21:30:25 -!- vivec has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:30:47 -!- Tenda has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:51 bh: basically you need to have any open tile on the border be able to enter the vault so as not to break connectivity 21:30:59 (i.e. any tile just outside the vault) 21:31:03 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:24 unknown monster: "giant fish" 21:32:24 %??giant fish 21:32:29 unknown monster: "giant goldfish" 21:32:29 %??giant goldfish 21:32:37 unknown monster: "goldfish" 21:32:37 %??goldfish 21:32:43 rip 21:32:55 /quit ragequit 21:34:07 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 21:34:52 ??fish 21:34:53 I don't have a page labeled fish in my learndb. 21:35:00 is nothing holy? 21:35:21 how was it now 21:35:29 giant goldfish (04;) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 23-52 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 15 | cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | XP: 125 | Sz: small | Int: reptile. 21:35:29 %0.14?Giant goldfish 21:35:37 never 5get 21:36:41 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:42 -!- Beast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:08 -!- ProzacElf has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:08 -!- rossi has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:08 -!- bmfx has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:08 -!- jeanjacques has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:08 -!- demiskeleton has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- buki has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- johnny0 has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- kaiza has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- Wah has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- minmay has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- Sose has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- jarpiain has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- Xenophilius has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- ldierk has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- ToBeFree has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:12 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 21:42:15 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:40 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:42:42 -!- jarpiain is now known as Guest87648 21:42:43 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:59 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 21:43:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2104-gd078c63: Lua up an altar: Blood for the terrible Demon-God! (someflowers) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d078c632a9a6 21:43:19 <|amethyst> I always feel like I'm cargo-culting when I do anything with Lua markers... 21:43:40 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 21:44:00 <|amethyst> ? 21:44:39 Just mulling this over, that's all :) 21:44:57 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:44:57 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45:41 <|amethyst> and if anyone wants to complain about the line being too long: pls rename dgn.find_marker_positions_by_prop thx :P 21:45:57 find_functions_to_rename_by_length 21:49:05 that reminds me: now that ignite blood is a thing, it really bothers me that weapon choice affects the amount of blood produced, sometimes by huge amounts 21:49:48 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:50:36 minmay: synergy. 21:51:04 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:51 bh: it's really well hidden from players though 21:52:10 minmay: you're right. It's not a great mechanic. 21:52:12 since blood splatters are random and are meaningless when you don't have ignite blood so you don't normally pay attention to them 21:52:48 but switching from a great mace to claws makes ignite blood 12 times better 21:53:28 I suppose a bigger problem is melee damage type having an effect on noise, since that happens for every character that uses melee and most players seem to have no idea it exists 21:57:44 I honestly have no clue how sound works in crawl. 22:00:53 <|amethyst> if you compile with EXTERNAL_FLAGS=-DDEBUG_NOISE_PROPAGATION then supposedly noise propagation will dump an html-rendered noise grid 22:01:22 (clearly try that with Qazlal and/or GONNNNG) 22:01:46 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:02:18 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:03 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:20 <|amethyst> Napkin: there's an in.telnetd process pegging one CPU (pid 6267, time 8891:33) 22:07:48 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:21 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:11:22 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:12:19 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:19 -!- ldierk has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:19 -!- jeanjacques has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:19 -!- ToBeFree has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- ChanServ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Naphistim has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Kramin has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- valrus has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Stendarr has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- MgDark has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- tensorpudding has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Bloax has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- ishanyx has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Wahaha has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Kalir has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- Annabella has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- us17 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- minqmay has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- bhaak has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:20 -!- ChongLi has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- Surr has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- ruwin has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- ystael has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- Nomi has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- TS__ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- simmarine has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- Cerpin has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- Adder_ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- geekosaur has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- hypermatt has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- oberstein has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- atomicthumbs has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- kilobyte has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- Twinge has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:21 -!- djanatyn has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- flowsnake has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- Goncyn_ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- kfjohnson has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- herself has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- bd has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- VitaminB5 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- orionstein_away has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- Amy has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:22 -!- sstrickl has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- nimitz has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- NeremWorld has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- Somefellow has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- xnavy has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- ivan`` has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- xXmima-samaXx has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- exitnode has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- Steampun1Duck has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- Sonata has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- Azzkikr has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:23 -!- djinni has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- tholmes has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- Lprsti99____ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- atrodo has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- Sose has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- kaiza has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- minmay has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- rophy has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:24 -!- Cerepol has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- predator117 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- Euph0ria has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- eki has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- Wolfechu has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- eb_ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- dtsund has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- tkappleton1 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- Vizer has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- the_glow1 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- pythonsnake has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- Lasty has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- rubinko__ has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- johlstei has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:25 -!- namad7 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- unpaidbi1l has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- Lantell has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- zkyp has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- johnstein has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- y2s82 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- greensnark has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:26 -!- Zaba has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:27 -!- Moredread has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:27 -!- TZer0 has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:27 -!- hhkb has quit [*.net *.split] 22:12:27 -!- one-of-many has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:21 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:20:47 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Lantell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- atrodo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- hypermatt has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- atomicthumbs has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Cerpin has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- eb_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 22:20:47 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:45 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:45 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:45 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:23:03 -!- ToBeFree has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:24:35 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 270 seconds] 22:28:10 -!- zardo has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:15 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:56 I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but it's possible to get 0 ordinary merfolk generated in all of shoals 22:35:13 minimum number of tridents seen over 100 iterations is 16 for all of shoals though 22:35:28 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:57 I bet it's not possible to get 0 ordinary naga in snake though 22:36:31 It sounds vaguely possible. 22:36:46 Some of the endings only place regular nagas as naga / nothing. 22:36:57 So it's exceedingly unlikely, but possible. 22:38:49 Grunt: To get all those rolling to not naga and get no nagas on snake:1-4 would be so unlikely that it could be like millions or billions of iterations before you see it 22:39:10 *no regular nagas 22:39:55 I'm running a 3-rune job of 100 iterations to see just how few potions of haste TS__ might get 22:40:00 (hopefully 0) 22:41:59 So you're saying he might not get too 22:42:00 ??grunt[$ 22:42:01 grunt[17/17]: ( •_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) 22:42:01 hasty 22:42:07 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 22:42:25 !send Grunt cancellation!!! 22:42:25 Sending cancellation!!! to Grunt. 22:42:34 -!- Naphistim has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:40 !send gammafunk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 22:42:40 Sending !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to gammafunk. 22:42:57 hopefully I get that in my next ossuary 22:43:08 (and they're all good potions) 22:43:22 !send gammafunk confusion, degeneration, and decay 22:43:22 Sending confusion, degeneration, and decay to gammafunk. 22:43:30 (sounds like a description of the devteam) 22:43:34 * Grunt flees in terror. 22:45:49 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:49 jokes on you i acquired a wand of hasting gammafunk 22:48:42 gasp 22:48:43 Nice wand of hasting you have there. It would be a shame if someone.....removed wands of hasting 22:48:45 rip 22:48:52 imo remove all forms of haste 22:48:54 go all the way 22:48:54 right 22:48:55 ??? 22:49:02 * PleasingFungus removes Grunt!!!!! 22:49:04 hastily, of course 22:49:04 PleasingFungus: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 22:49:18 dang 22:49:19 rip 22:49:52 -!- soadzombi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:50:23 Lasty: that sounds okay to me, actually. 22:50:40 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:43 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:47 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:58:01 |amethyst: the fountains filling with blood when you enter in "vampire church" vault sounds pretty rad, actually (if you enter while already following Kiku) 22:58:09 oh you did it already 22:58:21 that's what I get for responding before reading through the whole log 22:58:59 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:01:55 Hm. Grunt, you're here now. Did you see the discussion about differentiating some weapon type (long blades?) by adding a "first strike" mechanic? (Getting a free attack when you move "at" an enemy) 23:03:14 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:25 I'm not generally a fan of odd weapon mechanics, though if you think something has the potential to work well by all means do up something for an experimental branch. 23:04:06 The idea there was to encourage people to actually *move* toward enemies, which is traditionally frowned on by "the pros"... 23:04:11 Yeah, maybe I'll set up a branch. 23:04:35 s/*move* toward/move *toward 23:04:57 (For some reason I envision "riposte" as more of a long blade thing -- actually, more likely a short blade thing) 23:05:05 (not that I think we really need a mechanic like that) 23:05:11 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:05:16 -!- PHalm has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:40 Well, we don't *need* it, but it would be nice to differentiate the playstyle of different weapons a little more, I think. 23:05:59 oh 23:06:01 I misread 23:06:30 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:31 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:23 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:25 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:40 03Tanner Swett02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.15-a0-2105-gda5f0e3: Make str_to_weapon use existing item data 10(8 hours ago, 3 files, 81+ 44-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=da5f0e399819 23:10:07 <|amethyst> new email address huh 23:10:41 ? 23:11:24 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] 23:11:54 <|amethyst> %git 6180bce1 23:11:54 07tswett02 {|amethyst} * 0.11-a0-1759-g6180bce: Fix punctuation. 10(2 years, 2 months ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6180bce13379 23:12:12 ah 23:12:19 presumably no longer studying at gvsu :) 23:12:32 <|amethyst> People leave their university? 23:12:37 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2106-g0975d26: Add tswett to mailmap and credits. 10(70 seconds ago, 2 files, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0975d2634858 23:12:48 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^ 23:12:48 07tswett02 {PleasingFungus} * 0.15-a0-2105-gda5f0e3: Make str_to_weapon use existing item data 10(8 hours ago, 3 files, 81+ 44-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=da5f0e399819 23:13:21 <|amethyst> there are probably other recent contributors missing from CREDITS.txt 23:13:36 maybe the guy who did those abyss fixes? 23:13:53 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:08 <|amethyst> mursu should be there already 23:14:19 <|amethyst> oh 23:14:20 <|amethyst> hm 23:14:50 <|amethyst> but is not 23:15:05 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:30 <|amethyst> hm, which spelling to use 23:15:48 !rng a b 23:15:48 The RNG chooses: a. 23:15:50 that one 23:19:00 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2107-g24c7d3c: Add ChangeAj and mursu to credits. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=24c7d3cb293b 23:19:20 -!- Shome has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] 23:19:37 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:37 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:06 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:44 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:26:29 Yeah I don't think the first strike where you get an attack when you move adjacent will work very well, but there is a nice planning page on the wiki with some ideas for new weapon mechanics 23:27:09 cleave started there, but it might be the only good idea on that page 23:28:09 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:01 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 23:32:11 ha 23:32:17 gammafunk: why do you think it won't work well? 23:33:01 well, the reason why you don't move towards monsters is to avoid other monsters from entering the fight, so doing so in exchange for one attack is a pretty bad proposition, otoh 23:33:15 you can just move back form the awakened monster 23:33:16 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:24 so that you're one position away from where'd you like to fight it 23:33:30 then move forward to begin the fight 23:33:32 gammafunk: it is of course only useful if the monster is ranged 23:33:37 but most dangerous monsters are 23:34:01 there's not really a decision for non-ranged 23:34:08 if you have a """killhole""" then its useless, but that applies to cleave and reaching too 23:34:19 good quote marks 23:34:28 there's a decision for fast non-ranged enemies... 23:34:31 just not a decision for yaks 23:34:50 for ranged where you're going to move towards that guy no matter what, yeah that's one case I guess 23:35:02 <|amethyst> what if your move speed is faster than your attack speed? 23:35:21 |amethyst: it can just have a delay of max(movedelay, attackdelay) 23:35:43 I pull stuff and use corners etc a lot, but I still move towards ranged monsters quite a bit 23:36:05 not always more than 1 tile but this ability only needs 1 tile to be relevant! 23:36:43 <|amethyst> hm, maybe if it were on v instead of on movement 23:36:48 uh 23:36:58 are you making a joke 23:37:02 <|amethyst> otherwise you have to be careful when moving near plants 23:37:34 it could not trigger against firewood 23:37:37 mons_is_firewood 23:37:39 yes 23:37:46 similar to how (by default) tab doesn't kill plants 23:37:46 I don't think that'd be a crippling disadvantage :) 23:37:59 (not having first strike against firewood) 23:38:17 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:27 it seems like it'd be annoying to have optimal behaviour for melee-only monsters be to situate one position away from where you'd want to fight 23:38:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: seems no worse than reaching in that respect 23:38:54 gammafunk: against melee-only monsters, doing that is no better than waiting for them to move next to you 23:39:12 |amethyst: reaching, the best! 23:39:23 it seems like it would, in fact, be reaching 23:39:34 your v-proposal 23:39:37 <|amethyst> reaching plus a mandatory move 23:39:43 wow 23:39:52 I mean hm. I feel like I'm being too sarcastic 23:39:55 so I'm going to back off a bit 23:39:57 <|amethyst> which eliminates some of the abuses of reaching 23:40:12 the idea was pretty much to replace reaching, yeah 23:40:22 was it? 23:40:26 oh, that's an idea I could get behind 23:40:33 well that was *my* idea of it 23:40:36 maybe it wasn't everyone else's :P 23:40:37 true 23:40:52 no everyone but PleasingFungus is actually minmay 23:40:53 seems natural to me. it's very similar to reaching but gets rid of the thing that makes reaching really awful (v) 23:40:55 sorry, spoiler 23:41:24 and happens to get rid of the abuses with reaching too, yes 23:41:28 polearm reform 23:41:59 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:02 i admit the theme is a little weird on non-piercing polearms though 23:42:21 (of course, the theme of reaching is weird on bardiches, do you know how short those actually are) 23:42:54 hrm, is there any 'clash of theme'? It seems like the concept is just using the idea that polearms are long 23:43:13 even if bardiches are in fact short, I guess 23:43:17 (irl) 23:43:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 23:43:34 clash of theme for reaching, or whatever the new ability would be called? 23:43:42 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:43 clash of theme for new ability 23:43:58 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:09 as in, is it somehow tied to piercing? I guess it doesn't much matter either way 23:44:30 gammafunk: momentum directly towards your enemy isn't really good with an axe blade 23:44:59 raise it above your head, deliver a powerful chop! maybe 23:45:05 oh, that's getting into 1kb territory 23:45:07 idk. I am not kb 23:45:08 I'm out! 23:45:08 yes 23:45:09 yes 23:45:10 ha 23:45:15 I certainly don't think it's a major problem 23:45:21 when do we bring back triple swords, anyway 23:45:34 PleasingFungus: when we remove triple crossbows!!! 23:45:39 nooooooo 23:45:40 hell, halberds have a spear point anyway 23:45:41 oooooooooooo 23:45:44 oooooooooooooo 23:46:10 and a glaive blade is narrow enough that you could conceivably stab with it 23:46:23 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: could replace claymores if the Scottish independence referendum goes 'no' 23:46:38 well, last I heard... 23:47:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardiche#mediaviewer/File:01_108_Book_illustrations_of_Historical_description_of_the_clothes_and_weapons_of_Russian_troops.jpg 23:47:14 hm. clearly should have double swords and claymores - otherwise, you could cause confusion with triple crossbows! 23:47:15 :) 23:47:17 <|amethyst> if it goes 'yes', restore the lochaber axe 23:47:29 minmay: neat! 23:47:31 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:47:33 Not so long, no 23:47:46 yeah 23:48:12 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:14 a crawl-style two-handed battleaxe is probably as good at reaching irl as a bardiche 23:48:16 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48:33 hm. I'm poking around at letting undead races walk through water like greydracs 23:48:41 (slowly) 23:48:51 it seems like vampires are kind of a weird case 23:49:00 it seems like vampires are kind of a weird case 23:49:02 no shit sherlock 23:49:07 :( 23:49:53 huh. I guess gargoyles are also unbreathing, right. gargoyles.... 23:50:13 anyway it looks like vampires are always unbreathing, regardless of satiation? so I guess that's fine 23:50:46 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52:47 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:02 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:57 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:55 -!- valrus has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:59:13 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]