00:00:56 clearly just remove the nutrition multiplier effects from herbivore/carnivore 00:01:32 I almost kind of miss the old diet muts 00:01:45 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:52 old die muts being slow and fast meta? 00:01:58 Trolls still exist. 00:02:03 and also Sp 00:02:03 also you still mutate those 00:02:11 i'm assuming he meant getting gourmand from eating 1 mutagenic chunk 00:05:59 -!- tswett has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:59 I did, yes 00:06:03 (carnivore & herbivore) 00:06:13 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:01 Hmm, would it be worth removing slow meta and fast meta from random mutations? I have the feeling they don't do very much. (This could be wrong, mutations are hard to tell because getting mutated is pretty rare) 00:08:18 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2022-g2a19b96 (34) 00:09:13 I don't feel strongly about it either way 00:10:20 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:11 Hmm, I'll probably bring it up when more people are in the channel since I don't feel super strongly about it either. 00:11:30 however I would disagree that getting mutated is rare 00:11:34 at least if you play Correctly 00:11:41 (always quaff mut, always eat purple) 00:13:25 Yes that works until you get teleportitis. 00:14:08 my last tomb3 clear was with teleportitis 00:14:09 it was great 00:14:15 Ha. 00:15:03 More seriously I've found having the teleportitis intrinsic (ring not mutation) is rather annoying and, well, you can guess the rest. 00:16:39 -!- ruwin has quit [] 00:18:33 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:39 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 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has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:31 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:35 -!- purge_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:20:54 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: ???] 01:21:07 !tell reaverb removing slow/fast metabolism sounds good to me, just keep in mind every removal of a mutation that does nothing (like slow/fast metabolism) is another buff to malmutate 01:21:07 minmay: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 01:34:02 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:35:23 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:37:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:43:20 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:50 -!- Kramin42 is now known as Kramin 01:51:17 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:45 -!- eki has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:54:54 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 01:58:11 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:59:25 minmay: 01:59:33 PleasingFungus: yaks are like the opposite of instant death 01:59:34 Akett: It's close enough for weaker characters that it might as well not matter. 01:59:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:11 PleasingFungus: are you recieving telepathic communications from them? 02:01:18 tileschat 02:01:36 so, same thing 02:01:42 -!- tswett has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:41 -!- djetty has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:14 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:42 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:53 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2022-g2a19b96 (34) 02:23:18 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:36 I am informed that the above was unfair; he was apparently responding to an earlier comment about banishment 02:28:37 fr abyssal yaks 02:31:33 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:20 The Yaks from Beyond the Abyss 02:35:33 ??devs[hard 02:35:34 I don't have a page labeled devs[hard in my learndb. 02:35:36 hm 02:37:00 current 8145 status: 02:37:07 ??devteam[6 02:37:08 devteam[6/15]: sadly that bug is literally impossible to fix by which i mean i tried like once and then gave up 02:37:35 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 33.0a1/20140702030201]] 02:43:06 !bug 8145 02:43:06 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8145 02:43:12 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:25 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:01 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:19 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:15 -!- Dixlet_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:21 -!- Dixlet has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:51 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:09:51 -!- [1]AtomikKrab is now known as AtomikKrab 03:21:25 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:23 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:30:35 -!- Wahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:33:35 -!- TS__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 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##crawl-dev 06:07:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:36 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 06:11:49 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:22 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:22 -!- ZRN_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:56 03gammafunk02 07* 0.15-a0-2023-gf27aa03: Give correct examples for -mapstat in the command-line help 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f27aa0394301 06:23:56 03gammafunk02 07* 0.15-a0-2024-gd3fc6c3: Record objects for objstat after the level builder has completed 10(64 minutes ago, 3 files, 22+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d3fc6c344ce0 06:23:56 03gammafunk02 07* 0.15-a0-2025-g632f01b: Add an objstat item field for the number held by a monster. 10(59 minutes ago, 1 file, 35+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=632f01bb31bc 06:23:56 03gammafunk02 07* 0.15-a0-2026-g00f2e2e: Remove 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07:14:54 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:19 -!- Philonous has quit [Excess Flood] 07:15:30 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:15:32 -!- Sequell has quit [Excess Flood] 07:16:22 !tell pleasingfungus any opinion on making all shield types have the same enchantment cap again? but +5 or something maybe, seems neater than it differing per type and i'm not sure anyone's likely to use that many ?ea on a shield either way really 07:16:30 oh right, hi sequell 07:16:40 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 07:16:45 !tell pleasingfungus any opinion on making all shield types have the same enchantment cap again? but +5 or something maybe, seems neater than it differing per type and i'm not sure anyone's likely to use that many ?ea on a shield either way really 07:17:07 not reall 07:17:13 it seems neater that it goes up the larger it is to me 07:17:15 it mimics body armour 07:17:17 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 07:17:25 and it makes it more of an incentive to upgrade from buckler to shield if it lets you enchant further, etc 07:17:33 well body armour has a simple rule 07:17:36 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:37 shields don't 07:17:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 07:18:06 ??buckler 07:18:06 buckler[1/1]: Any character who isn't using a 2-handed weapon or unarmed should get one of these. Unless you can't wear them, in which case get a regular shield. 07:18:21 not helpful 07:18:35 I don't feel like source diving, what's the buckler - shield - large shield relationship 07:19:55 unless you consider "(the shield's ac property that isn't displayed to the player - 3 / 2) + 3" to be a simple rule i guess 07:20:15 I don't even know what the simple rule is for armour, btw 07:20:16 ??robe 07:20:16 robe[1/2]: 2AC, 0ER, 6aum. 07:20:17 ??plate armour 07:20:18 plate armour[1/1]: 10AC, 18ER, 65 aum. 07:20:23 "base ac" 07:20:28 oh, makes sense 07:20:42 but yeah, I don't see why it has to be some easy to remember rule 07:20:51 because in practice you'll just enchant it until you can't enchant it anymore 07:20:56 then you'll enchant something else (or whatever) 07:21:14 -!- 21WAANRW6 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:28 well in practice you won't enchant it at all for one thing 07:21:35 is that still true? 07:21:38 after the newSH rebalance? 07:21:47 I thought 1 AC ~== 1 EV ~== 1 newSH now. 07:23:26 i would definitely not enchant a shield over armour 07:23:48 What if enchanting a shield gave 2 newSH? Would you enchant a shield over armour? 07:25:32 i doubt it, also if sh was appealing and all shields were capped at +5 then you'd still have the some pretty obvious incentives to pick up a bigger shield 07:27:24 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:19 -!- Eisgnom has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:40:26 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:13 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:47 -!- Utis has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:51:01 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:16 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53:01 -!- __miek has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:53:02 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:40 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:52 -!- rockygargoyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:57:39 -!- Philonous has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:58 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:10:02 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:57 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:23:07 -!- zercules has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:23:23 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:25:48 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 08:26:30 -!- mor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:26:58 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:10 -!- Staplegun is now known as sgun 08:32:35 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:46 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:40:16 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:11 -!- CryptoCactus has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:50:24 -!- Philonous has quit [Quit: (<<<)] 08:51:33 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:38 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:21 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:35 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:36 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:14:38 -!- tswett has quit [Quit: tswett] 09:20:31 -!- puissantveil has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:20:35 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:09 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:28:10 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30:24 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:24 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 09:31:33 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:31:34 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:47 -!- TS__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:49:10 Klutz (L3 VSSu) ERROR in 'spl-util.cc' at line 865: ASSERT failed: spell of 296 out of range 0 (0) .. NUM_SPELLS (296) (D:2) 09:52:11 <|amethyst> !crashlog klutz 09:52:11 1. Klutz, XL3 VSSu, T:892 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Klutz/crash-Klutz-20140712-144806.txt 09:55:31 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:57:12 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:57:17 <|amethyst> ?/inecronomicon 09:57:18 No matches. 09:57:23 <|amethyst> err 09:57:32 <|amethyst> I mean, that's the command that caused the crash, and I can reproduce it 09:57:33 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:47 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:35 -!- Dixlet has joined ##crawl-dev 09:58:37 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:58 <|amethyst> oh, ?/i does it 09:58:58 <|amethyst> 296 is NUM_SPELLS 09:59:21 -!- hyperbolic has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:55 <|amethyst> because it's trying to look up "necronomicon" as a spell 10:00:58 -!- johnny0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:18 -!- Dixlet_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:03 -!- sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:04 -!- elliptic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:35 -!- tswett is now known as warrigal2 10:05:03 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:04 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:08:13 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 10:10:36 <|amethyst> so why does bisect require you to be at the top-level directory, anyway? 10:11:26 <|amethyst> aha 10:11:35 <|amethyst> I broke it :) 10:11:37 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 10:13:48 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:13 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:14:39 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:47 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:18:37 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:51 -!- tumblemist has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:19:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2027-g342abdf: Don't crash on ?/inecronomicon. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=342abdf7a4ef 10:20:13 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:52 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 10:25:17 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:03 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:39:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:05 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:52:58 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:31 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 10:55:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:56:03 -!- FlowRiser has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:56:11 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:00:02 -!- eb_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:06:03 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:39 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 11:12:48 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:13:38 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:08 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:18 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 11:26:57 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:00 <|amethyst> :q 11:27:04 <|amethyst> ??|amethyst 11:27:04 |amethyst[1/11]: <|amethyst> doh 11:28:17 MarvinPA: my reasoning was pretty much the same as patashu's, tbh 11:28:17 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:28:34 ("give a larger incentive to pick up larger shields") 11:28:41 note that this also affects random generation of shields 11:28:56 so shields/large shields tend to be generated with larger enchants than bucklers, now. I think 11:29:12 I agree that the math is super kludgey :( 11:30:29 I'd probably be fine with it being "+2 per type", so 3/5/7 11:30:35 it's not like the internal shield values are exposed to players anyway 11:30:39 (though maybe they should be???) 11:33:03 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:07 hm 11:33:30 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:26 PleasingFungus: it only affects artefact shields 11:34:27 MarvinPA: I just wrote a bunch of words about shield enchantments, that you may or may not have missed due to ping timeout; also, you made kind of a weird assumption in your discussion with patashu 11:34:32 so that is not really a thing 11:34:36 ah. fair enough 11:35:20 i think a better way of incentivising large shields would be to make them better, if that's necessary 11:35:23 8 ?ea is a lot of ?ea 11:35:43 how do you feel about armour enchantment caps generally? 11:36:19 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:25 ??ru[3] 11:36:25 ru[3/4]: Currently in experimental branch on CSZO. Formerly known as Iashol or I, Asshole. 11:36:41 not a particularly big deal either way, i'm just not a fan of how it adds yet another rule to "how armour enchantments work" (as seen in ?ea's increasingly long description) 11:37:21 hm 11:37:40 I can agree with that 11:41:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:42:45 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2028-g6a3dcca: Prefer closer prefixes in find_earliest_match. 10(22 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a3dccaebf65 11:42:45 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2029-gdc9adda: Don't place random monsters with &M 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dc9adda271b6 11:42:45 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2030-g241103d: Add a useful predicate for find_earliest_match. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=241103d554b1 11:42:45 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2031-g2727fff: Use find_earliest_match for wizmode monster lookup (&M etc) 10(55 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 23-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2727fff9fba9 11:43:17 <|amethyst> Maybe I should adjust the timestamps when I reorder commits like that :) 11:43:29 i guess if you're really lucky you can get a +19 artefact large shield now or something 11:44:06 "better than gong" 11:44:30 |amethyst: naw, it's funny 11:45:01 MarvinPA: yeah, the body armour enchant limit matters more, since body armour & hence body armour artefacts are more common, but the shield thing is probably not completely negligible 11:45:04 ??objstat[2 11:45:04 objstat[2/2]: Latest statistics: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10fNR1JApV-AyF6vdv-g3S3FUUzSSIrUu3OTMWMEoaaA/edit#gid=681767829 11:45:21 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:35 you'll probably find a whole one artefact shield of some kind over the course of a 3-rune game! wow 11:45:51 i think it sort of is completely negligible, yes :P 11:46:30 got to scum those holy zig levels 11:46:32 <|amethyst> (I wonder just how many slightly different "loop over a bunch of things and find the best string match" functions we have) 11:46:41 10,000,000 11:47:19 related: 11:47:21 !source read_options 11:47:21 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/initfile.cc;hb=HEAD#l1598 11:47:28 this remains the funniest function in the world 11:51:00 wait, no, wrong func 11:51:19 !source _handle_list 11:51:19 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/initfile.cc;hb=HEAD#l2161 11:51:23 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2031-g2727fff (34) 11:51:26 <|amethyst> hm 11:51:44 |amethyst. look at this function. admire it. admire its beauty. 11:51:59 I think that vault tag lookup also happens in some pretty weird fashion 11:52:21 %git fc789695 11:52:22 07kilobyte02 * 0.8.0-a0-111-gfc78969: Whitespace fixes. 10(4 years ago, 10 files, 56+ 56-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc7896954739 11:52:54 Remove references to dart from fire_order in init.txt 13https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8783 by XuaXua 11:53:30 if (tags.find(" " + wanted_tags[i] + " ") == string::npos) ... 11:53:45 that is 11:53:46 why use a data structure when you can just find substrings in a string 11:53:46 pretty funny 11:54:00 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 33.0a1/20140702030201]] 11:54:11 but of course, it lets you just tags.find(" " + prefix) to find a prefix 11:54:14 which is pretty neat 11:54:16 but... still 11:55:11 (it doesn't guarantee that what you find is a proper prefix, as it happens) 11:56:20 -!- dtsund has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:36 so "" is a perfectly valid level layout type, for example 11:56:41 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:03 -!- MrPeeps has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:48 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:01:58 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2032-g53f97d3: Avoid a signed/unsigned warning. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=53f97d336ffa 12:02:28 -!- broquaint has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:02:45 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:27 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus maybe @crawlcode would appreciate the template I just added in 241103d5: template bool _always_true(T) { return true; } 12:05:27 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 12:07:24 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:06 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:05 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-2031-g2727fff (34) 12:14:53 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:50 Hey, did anyone intentionally make a change that prevents cold projectiles from neutralizing flaming clouds and instead makes them pass through flaming clouds? 12:16:26 If not, I have a story to tell Mantis. :p 12:23:18 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25:03 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:09 -!- gman is now known as Insomniak 12:39:35 -!- moxian has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:16 <|amethyst> Lasty1: projectiles as in ammo? 12:48:27 <|amethyst> Lasty1: if so, that was at least kind of intentional, because elemental branded ammo now works like melee brands rather than being pure elemental 12:48:39 <|amethyst> %git 51a3c4d 12:48:39 Could not find commit 51a3c4d (git returned 128) 12:48:39 * Sequell can't find the dice! 12:48:47 <|amethyst> %git 51a3c3d 12:48:48 07Grunt02 * 0.15-a0-279-g51a3c3d: Ranged attack brands! 10(3 months ago, 9 files, 1421+ 973-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=51a3c3daa549 12:48:48 * Sequell can't find the dice! 12:48:58 <|amethyst> um 12:49:02 <|amethyst> 4444d 12:49:02 * Sequell can't find the dice! 12:49:04 <|amethyst> 4444d4 12:49:13 <|amethyst> 9d 12:49:13 * Sequell can't find the dice! 12:49:14 <|amethyst> od 12:49:18 <|amethyst> d0 12:49:21 <|amethyst> 1d3 12:50:29 <|amethyst> !learn edit :beh:[$] s@.*@!rng (0*d\d+|\d+d0*) ::: /me can't find the dice!@ 12:50:29 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/// 12:50:34 <|amethyst> !learn edit :beh:[17] s@.*@!rng (0*d\d+|\d+d0*) ::: /me can't find the dice!@ 12:50:34 :beh:[17/17]: !rng (0*dd+|d+d0*) ::: /me can't find the dice! 12:50:39 <|amethyst> no 12:50:45 <|amethyst> !learn del :beh:[17] 12:50:45 Deleted :beh:[17/17]: !rng (0*dd+|d+d0*) ::: /me can't find the dice! 12:50:57 <|amethyst> !learn add :beh: !rng (0*d\d+|\d+d0*) ::: /me can't find the dice! 12:50:57 :beh:[17/17]: !rng (0*d\d+|\d+d0*) ::: /me can't find the dice! 12:51:01 <|amethyst> 9d 12:51:04 <|amethyst> !rng 9d 12:51:04 * Sequell can't find the dice! 12:51:19 <|amethyst> there (it was missing the parentheses) 12:51:38 <|amethyst> !rng 9d1 12:51:38 * Sequell rolls 9d1 for 9 12:51:47 <|amethyst> !rng 9d01 12:51:47 * Sequell rolls 9d1 for 9 12:53:01 -!- ebarrett_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:23 -!- RZX has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] 12:55:33 -!- eb_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:30 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:49 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:04:54 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:05:27 |amethyst: as in puff of frost 13:06:23 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:55 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:00 <|amethyst> Lasty1: Throw Frost seems to be stopped by flame clouds (and cause a sizzling sound) for me 13:10:22 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:27 <|amethyst> Lasty1: oh, hm 13:11:20 <|amethyst> Lasty1: seems to depend on the distance 13:11:32 Ha, Wow. 13:11:32 reaverb: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:11:36 !messages 13:11:36 (1/1) minmay said (11h 50m 29s ago): removing slow/fast metabolism sounds good to me, just keep in mind every removal of a mutation that does nothing (like slow/fast metabolism) is another buff to malmutate 13:12:34 <|amethyst> Lasty1: ah, yes, it takes off 5 from the range rather than stopping the beam entirely 13:12:43 |amethyst: not quiite funny enough (your predicate) 13:12:44 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:12:46 too reasonable 13:12:51 just balance that out by moving bad good mutations to bad mutations 13:13:09 antennae to badmuts? 13:13:12 or talons 13:13:24 ebarrett_: We already fixed placid magic. <_< >_> 13:13:48 I'm still thinking about changing berserkitis to trigger off low hp rather than hitting stuff in melee. 13:14:22 'get extra hp and run away really fast'-itis 13:15:08 talons are better than not-talons already 13:15:47 they just do about 1/20th the damage of hooves so nobody likes them 13:16:17 I think this version of removing sharks from vaults is worth being reviewed then pushed, the only things I think might need tweaking are the new nicolae_underground_beach range and the sprints: 13:16:18 http://bpaste.net/show/mqeWwJqfvVYFzNbjUET7/ 13:16:22 I heard they didn't do damage when you were wearing boots? 13:16:29 yes 13:16:37 so if you wear boots then talons is the same as not-talons 13:16:40 it's not worse than not-talons 13:16:56 (until talons 3) 13:17:08 reaverb: then they are doing damage 13:17:49 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:59 minmay: Yes, that makes sense. 13:18:19 <|amethyst> at mut level 1, talons do 7 damage and hooves do 6 ; at level 2, talons do 8 damage and hooves do 8 ; at level 3, talons do 9 damage and hooves do 10 13:19:31 <|amethyst> hm 13:19:45 <|amethyst> oh, do hooves work though boots? 13:19:46 snapping turtle (03t) | Spd: 8 (act: 80%; swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 40-78 | AC/EV: 16/5 | Dam: 30(reach) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 254 | Sz: Medium | Int: reptile. 13:19:46 %??snapping turtle 13:19:53 shark (16;) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-51 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 18, 9 | cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(28), 12drown | XP: 205 | Sz: Big | Int: reptile. 13:19:53 %??shark 13:20:12 reaverb: imo put snapping turtles on wad_bat_island 13:20:37 PleasingFungus: How serious is that? 13:20:41 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:02 completely serious 13:21:32 <|amethyst> (also, hooves partially bypass AC) 13:21:59 it'd be an upgrade from sharks, but anything would be an upgrade from sharks 13:22:13 PleasingFungus: Still, D:8 seems a little shallow for snapping turtles. 13:22:22 I guess they are slow outside water though. 13:22:37 oh no. out of depth monsters in vaults? 13:22:51 Also the weird thing about that vault is there appears to be no loot. 13:22:53 and yeah, they aren't gonna be chasing the player down outside the water 13:22:58 the loot... is bats. 13:23:18 Which is kind of spoilery with path of most resistance and all (and why I was fine with completely removing the teeth) 13:23:29 imo if a monster is harmless then that makes putting it in vaults worse, not better 13:23:34 <|amethyst> So... *are* hooves 1-2 supposed to work when you are wearing boots? 13:25:01 |amethyst: weird. That's the first time I've run into that 13:25:38 also a kraken is going to be harmless in depths (re underground beach), but it's gonna be harmless just about anywhere, at least until I fix it 13:25:40 so w/e 13:26:00 Really talons and hooves have a lot of subtle differances sounds like something which could only happen if the differances don't actually matter and are just bikeshedding. 13:26:17 reaverb: the differences aren't very subtle at all 13:26:39 in practice 13:26:42 PleasingFungus: On the kraken, should it be moved to D:10- or such. 13:26:55 they only have two differences I know of 13:27:00 hooves ignore AC and reduce stealth 13:27:01 I would personally just swap in some water elementals at absdepth() >= 10 13:27:01 talons don't 13:27:06 instead of a kraken anywhere 13:27:14 <|amethyst> minmay: talons don't work when you are wearing boots 13:27:23 hooves work when you are wearing boots? 13:27:27 <|amethyst> apparently 13:27:28 PleasingFungus: I don't think that fits the flavor of killing a bunch of things. 13:27:29 water elementals are a little overused but they at least work 13:27:31 what the fuck 13:27:48 minmay: I blame centaurs 13:27:53 like, centaur code 13:28:02 I guess water elementals do work though. 13:28:04 hahaha that's the dumbest reason ever for that interaction to happen 13:28:15 and yet... suspiciously plausible...? 13:28:38 The monster in that vault are seem more like mobile flavor features then actuall chanlleges you are expecting to fight right now. 13:29:17 PleasingFungus: Ok, what if I do water elementals how would the range work? Back to just D:2- ? 13:29:38 mobile flavour features that give you xp and piety 13:29:52 reaverb: [11:27] PleasingFungus I would personally just swap in some water elementals at absdepth() >= 10 13:30:23 oh you mean re depths 13:30:24 eh 13:30:27 Yes. 13:30:36 minmay: Thanks for reminding me why that's a bad thing. 13:30:46 sure, keep it simple 13:30:50 minimal changes 13:31:11 Ok, I'll do water elementals. 13:31:15 Any opinon on the sprints? 13:31:36 only glanced at it 13:32:36 flying skull (16z) | Spd: 15 | HD: 7 | HP: 14-28 | AC/EV: 10/17 | Dam: 14 | 07undead, evil, lev | Res: 06magic(28), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 228 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 13:32:36 %??flying skull 13:32:43 sure 13:32:54 seems ballpark reasonable 13:33:32 Hmm, Ok I'll probably push shark removal sometime today. 13:34:18 rip sharks. "too toothy for this world" 13:34:35 oh. |amethyst. I was thinking about removing the weird thing where axes are stopped by walls 13:34:46 (on that note, has anybody every noticed that sharks have "blood sense") 13:34:50 I have!!! 13:34:51 s/every/ever/ 13:35:03 BLOOD FRENZY 13:35:16 Oh yes, it's blood frenzy. 13:35:24 they can actually do damage when they get frenzied! 13:35:26 if you stand next to them 13:35:40 |amethyst: since it's a special case that isn't obvious to the player (either that it exists or when it happens), and doesn't accomplish any actual design goals 13:35:42 (If it was theroetcially intresting enough for another monster somebody could just grab the code from the history) 13:35:48 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:57 yep 13:36:26 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I thought it was a design goal that axing in a corridor should hit only one monster 13:36:33 why would that be a design goal 13:36:59 Well I intuitively except walls to block cleaving, and would find it odd if they didn't. 13:37:23 why on earth would you expect them to do that 13:37:33 -!- giantbat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:43 reaverb: I found it really, really weird that walls block cleaving 13:37:47 <|amethyst> based on experience being in narrow hallways? 13:37:48 when I first found out about it 13:38:03 as in, I thought it was a bug that I wasn't hitting all 7 monsters, and someone in irc had to explain that it was blocked by walls 13:38:09 right now cleaving works - correct me if I'm wrong, |amethyst - by first hitting the targeted monster, and then going out in both directions from the target (clockwise, and then counterclockwise) 13:38:19 Yes maybe I'm in the minority. 13:38:30 that bears no resemblance to realism. it is a Game Mechanic 13:38:47 and yeah, it's not intuitive at all 13:38:49 <|amethyst> Then just make axes show an explosion when you attack 13:38:57 Heh: ^ 13:38:58 <|amethyst> since that's what it effectively is 13:39:03 |amethyst: I really like this idea! ontoclasm & I have chatted about it a couple of times 13:39:06 also wrt spears 13:39:19 yes, I am fine with it being an explosion around you, since, again, that is already essentially what it is 13:39:23 except in specific weird niche cases 13:39:47 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:39:49 <|amethyst> BEAM_AXE 13:39:58 (the "visualizing melee weapon attack patterns" thing was more relevant when axes didn't hit the space behind you, since they were even more confusing then, of course) 13:40:06 (perhaps less necessary then) 13:40:08 <|amethyst> why would you do that with polearms? 13:40:18 <|amethyst> polearms can't hit more than one square in one attack 13:40:27 there was some reason. I'd have to check the logs 13:40:29 <|amethyst> I can understand wanting to show the middle square 13:40:39 In any case since it doesn't have a mechanical reason (if it's suppose to make people not use corrdiors it fails) and apparently not being intutive to most people removing walls blocking cleaving seems fine. 13:40:43 <|amethyst> but I wouldn't want to imply "you will hit this" 13:41:15 it wouldn't be literally an explosion graphic - the idea was to display arrows, iirc 13:41:22 "you are attacking in these directions" 13:41:48 -!- Nomi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:55 <|amethyst> One problem is that if you add a explosion graphic for axes that makes them a lot slower 13:42:05 <|amethyst> (for any melee weapon, that is) 13:42:08 yes 13:42:20 that was the conversation that led to adding an option to turn off missile delays 13:42:21 iirc 13:42:56 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:52:25 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:20 -!- Alarkh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:46 -!- Alarkh_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:17 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:42 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:56:56 <|amethyst> hm, should pig form have hooves? 13:57:17 maybe like, level 1 hooves? I guess? 13:57:37 <|amethyst> I'm not going to add them, but it will be possible to do shortly 13:59:26 !!! 13:59:27 (if pigs have hooves then it begs the question of why minotaurs don't) 13:59:32 -!- quixotic has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:00:05 well 14:00:15 (1) minotaurs have a bull top & a human bottom 14:00:20 that is kind of their thing 14:00:36 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:37 bull head and human rest, I guess 14:01:09 (2) it makes me very slightly sad when people use "begs the question" to mean "invites the question" 14:01:27 http://guides.gamepressure.com/mightandmagicheroesvishadesofdarkness/gfx/word/166834255.jpg but is that cool 14:01:46 many things in life, are cool. 14:02:30 <|amethyst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minotaur#mediaviewer/File:Pasiphae_Minotauros_Cdm_Paris_DeRidder1066_detail.jpg 14:02:46 that axe looks like an awful weapon 14:02:53 wikipedia says: The term "begging the question" originated in the 16th century as a mistranslation of Latin petitio principii "assuming the initial point".[2] In modern vernacular usage, "to beg the question" is sometimes used to mean "to raise the question" (as in "This begs the question of whether...") or "to dodge the question". 14:03:07 -!- Doat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:03:11 Seems a little odd to insist on the definition based on a mistranslation. 14:03:21 it's traditional :( 14:03:29 it looks like a fancy cane with a batarang stuck to the end 14:03:30 don't people care about tradition these days 14:03:35 <|amethyst> Without the mistranslation it wouldn't be a phrase at all 14:03:36 Son the new definition will be traditional 14:03:39 *soon 14:03:46 well, I mean, it's already dominant 14:03:53 minmay: well crawl isn't much better in this regard 14:03:55 so it'd be ridiculous to claim that someone was "using it wrong" 14:04:04 just makes me slightly sad 14:04:10 fair nuff 14:04:41 <|amethyst> The problem being that now you have to use Latin again to refer to the more specific use of "question-begging" 14:04:59 |amethyst: "you're using circular reasoning" is pretty close 14:05:06 "you're assuming the premise" 14:05:14 or you could say that it assumes the premise, which is actually clear 14:05:22 <|amethyst> I suppose "assuming the premise" works 14:05:39 "it begs the question" is pretty much a snarky way of saying "i am now going to ask a question" 14:05:42 lasty and other people here. I was talking with my friend at breakfast, and he suggested a not obviously awful idea for making crossbows distinct from bows 14:05:42 <|amethyst> and is slightly less likely to get you punched than "petitio principii" 14:05:50 * PleasingFungus punches |amethyst! 14:05:55 bloax does anyone ever do that? 14:06:03 i do 14:06:17 Lasty1: he did like five minutes ago! 14:06:24 <|amethyst> ??hooves 14:06:25 hooves[1/2]: Horse feet. Having them allows you to kick in melee, at the cost of footwear. Slot loss happens at hooves 3. 14:06:27 I have never ever heard someone use it that way . . . it makes no sense 14:06:33 <|amethyst> ??hooves[2] 14:06:34 unarmed effects[1/2]: Unarmed attacks have additional effects, if conditions are met: Headbutt - Ministun ; Claw - Bleed effect ; Hooves - Ignore AC on kicks 14:06:35 Okay, once now 14:06:46 <|amethyst> ??kick 14:06:46 auxiliary attacks[1/4]: Auxiliary attacks are /extra/ melee attacks using body parts. You can get auxiliary attacks by having hooves, horns, talons, fangs, a beak, or a large muscular tail. Unarmed Combat skill does not affect these. However, if you have Unarmed Combat skill and are not using a shield or two-handed weapon, you do get an offhand punch. 14:06:53 anyway, regale me with tales of better crossbows! 14:07:51 Lasty1: Why does requiring a questioning of the subject make no sense at all? 14:08:27 right. basic idea is that you need to "load" a crossbow before firing it - manually with v, automatically with tab or o 14:08:54 not with a specific bolt, probably. just get it into the "loaded state" 14:09:03 i had thought of that but then it struck me as rather clunky 14:09:05 PleasingFungus: People have brought that up before, and usually the response is that it makes it too micromanagey to be a primary weapon 14:09:19 yeah, it's an obvious idea 14:09:31 what advantages does this have over making it just take longer to fire? 14:09:35 it seems like automating it with tab/o would solve some of the clunkiness? 14:09:51 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: probably that you can prep it while no monsters are in view 14:09:56 well, you still have to hit tanb twice as often 14:09:58 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: like loading in doomrl 14:10:00 MarvinPA: don't have to fuck around with special mindelay rules; makes it more distinctive; lets you get the "first shot" 14:10:18 Lasty1: true 14:10:37 i don't think distinctive is a particularly meaningful advantage there 14:10:47 "fucking around with special mindelay rules" would also make it more distinctive 14:11:16 Bloax: I'm not sure if I understand -- above it looks like you're saying that you say "it begs the question" when you actually mean "I am going to ask a question," as opposed when you actually mean "what you said invites an obvious question" 14:11:22 without making you press tab twice as often as lasty points out! i don't think the first shot thing makes up for that really 14:11:52 Lasty1: well you got it right 14:11:55 you could make tab automatically load & fire, like ringswitching? that seems like it could cause trouble, though 14:12:16 (i can spoil that i just woke up and i am not known for being too good at anything for a while after that) 14:12:18 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:12:26 haha, ok, I'll drop it 14:12:58 eh. I guess I can just implement the special mindelay thing for now 14:13:05 and maybe revisit the reloading idea at another data 14:13:06 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: do you have any thoughts on hooves working through boots? 14:13:07 *date 14:13:11 it just seems like essentially the effect of this is that it makes it take longer to fire 14:13:16 PleasingFungus: Unless you double the damage that crossbows do, making them take twice as many keypresses will be really painful 14:13:19 so the way i would implement that is by making it take longer to fire :P 14:13:37 I think the kernal of the possibly interesting idea with loading is that your damage scales differant over time, more of it is concentrated in the first shot. 14:14:04 |amethyst: hm, seems like they probably shouldn't 14:14:07 <|amethyst> what if you allowed cocking the xbow while moving 14:14:10 haha, yess 14:14:13 <|amethyst> like shottyman 14:14:13 like that doomrl thing 14:14:15 yessss 14:14:18 that was the best thing in doomrl 14:14:26 So you fire, walk, fire, walk, fire, walk . . . . 14:14:27 |amethyst: if you want some trivia then unarmed combat in wizardry 8 has punching and kicking 14:14:31 A bit like berserk, although since the only penalty is slower attacking it is less meaningful. 14:14:36 you are forced to kite every foght 14:14:41 :( 14:14:42 i have a vague recollection that at some point in the past wearing boots let you ignore the stealth penalty and that it was changed on purpose, but i'm not sure 14:14:50 which works whether or not you have boots on 14:15:06 because why wouldn't you be using kicks every now and then 14:15:07 that was probably before they got the ac-ignoring thing 14:15:30 the AC-ignoring thing is the strongest part about hooves though 14:15:32 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: my plan is to make wearing boots (but not centaur bardings) stop both the kick and the stealth penalty 14:15:46 yeah, sounds right 14:15:49 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:51 -!- fevertrip has quit [Client Quit] 14:15:52 that'd be analogous to claws, yeah? 14:15:56 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:15:58 or to, uh, talons 14:16:09 <|amethyst> yeah, except talons don't have the stealth thing 14:16:13 yes 14:16:24 sneaky tip-toe bird man 14:16:34 clackity clackity clack 14:16:45 scritch scratch 14:16:46 straight up my favorite bit of stealth code is the felid blade hands special case 14:16:53 talons should give trample resistance <_< >_> 14:17:22 <|amethyst> reaverb: only when standing on sufficiently soft ground 14:17:33 Heh. 14:17:34 (which doesn't exist) 14:17:35 <|amethyst> (checking the tile to tell whether that is the case) 14:18:54 went over and talked to my friend re crossbow loading 14:18:56 he mentioned that 14:18:58 -!- Insomniak has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:19:02 [12:13] Lasty1 PleasingFungus: Unless you double the damage that crossbows do, making them take twice as many keypresses will be really painful 14:19:13 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-2033-g18de428: Make boots block the effects of hooves. 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 23+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=18de428f80c0 14:19:16 doubling the damage crossbows did was exactly his plan :) 14:19:27 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that has interactions with armour though 14:19:28 since, you know. 1.7 aut effective mindelay 14:19:30 yes 14:20:00 *literally* double would probably be excessive, but something close might work 14:20:13 PleasingFungus: that might work if the interface gets smoothed out enough, though starting crossbows will take like 2.5 to fire 14:20:49 (he also liked the shottyman idea, but yeah, I don't think it works in crawl :( 14:20:58 (shottyman) 14:21:03 Hmm, that commit reminds me it might be good to remove merflok melding boots in water due to all the special casing. 14:21:13 (And not doing much) 14:21:21 I'd still prefer 1.0 min delay, but it could picture the alternative being okay 14:21:49 idk. I might implement the 1 mindelay version first anyway 14:21:54 since it's much much simpler 14:22:06 and then revisit the cocked version in 1.6 14:22:13 seems fair 14:22:22 reaverb: do merfolk really need a buff? 14:22:52 PleasingFungus: The reason it would be remove is for not doing much either way. 14:22:58 s/remove/removed/ 14:23:15 And it's not like we couldn't just make their polearms apt +3 rather than +4 or something. 14:23:30 tbh I'd rather just make them permanently lose their boot slot 14:23:34 make them more distinctive rather than less 14:24:10 You mean like the other 4-5 species with a boots slot? 14:24:30 <|amethyst> Oh, hey, I just fixed something in the chaosforge wiki without having an account 14:24:42 |amethyst: good retroactive correctness 14:24:43 the only species truly without a boot slot that can wear armor is tengu 14:24:59 (Op, Fe, Te, Ce, Ds sort of) 14:25:09 Ds is randomland 14:25:13 ce have boot slots 14:25:18 Op and Fe can't wear armor. 14:25:18 Really I think aux slot denial is a little overused. 14:25:23 if you're counting ce, why wouldn't you count na 14:25:40 (it's funny how bardings literally take up the boot slot) 14:25:46 PleasingFungus: A) I should count Na B) bardings are basically a completely differant slot than boots 14:25:49 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:26:04