00:01:46 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:05 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:42 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:09 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1230-gf41e293 (34) 00:08:48 -!- Blombor has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:42 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1230-gf41e293 (34) 00:22:23 Grunt: Uh, you spelled centaur wrong in those titles thing 00:22:33 and then he fixed it. 00:25:43 |amethyst: maybe you should remove the history of that game from sequell 00:27:41 -!- MDvedh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:27:48 -!- xordid has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:57 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:50 <|amethyst> If it were in my power to remove games from sequell, which it is not, it's not that game I'd be removing 00:30:45 -!- allbefore has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:31:38 Would you be removing any at all? 00:31:53 <|amethyst> no, but I'd be tempted 00:32:09 Tempted towards which then? 00:32:27 <|amethyst> removing the games of the person who quit that game 00:32:46 man I don't know what got into him lately 00:32:58 he seemed... well, not this unbalanced 00:33:12 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 00:35:21 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:58 -!- Nomi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:52 obligatory "I warned you" 00:40:32 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]] 00:40:47 "Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why not make chunks not rot instead?" 00:41:20 not sure the tavern thread about chunkless branch was really worth the time to make 00:41:21 C - 1024 chunks of yaktaur flesh 00:42:23 -!- rchandra has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:43:26 wow, trying to rebase things that you started weeks ago with the current master can really spiral into a mess 00:44:10 johnstine: Depends on what part of the code you're touching, if you hit a duration then yes that's awful. 00:44:25 yea 00:44:31 If you touched, say, Monster AI code probably nobody meddled with what you were doing. 00:45:43 I swear I did the same 3-way merge conflict resolution 00:45:46 multiple times 00:46:05 (It made the duration code better but it means it'll be extra hard to rebase anything from before then.) 00:46:11 after the third time seeing the same thing, I just did git rebase --abort 00:46:13 johnstein: Hmm, maybe try git.rerere 00:46:23 yea. I've heard about rerere 00:46:30 but I've never bothered learning it 00:46:44 johsntein: Maybe it's the same problem but in differant places? (Duration code had this a ton) 00:47:05 it was the part where not all the durations are listed now. just the important ones 00:47:33 the things I was messing with aren't terribly complicated 00:47:35 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 00:47:48 Yes, that was my refactoring, luckily that means if you make a duration again in the future rebasing it will be easier. 00:48:10 so I might just start over using what I did before as a guide. is it typical to create a patch file, then manually edit it to avoid some of the hairy conflicts and just handle those separately? 00:49:28 johnstein: Well, normally what I'd do is go to the conflict and just wipe the old stuff and edit the HEAD stuff, diff tools would probably make that easier. 00:49:41 Not sure if maually editting a patch file even works, it probably does though. 00:50:34 I was using vim mergetool 00:50:48 and just accepting all the new master changes 00:51:00 :diffg LO :diffg LO :diffg LO 00:51:06 Yes that's normal, I would edit the new changes to before leaving though. 00:51:10 and was planning on going back later 00:51:16 but after doing it to the same files over and over 00:51:25 it seemed like I was going in circles 00:51:41 Hmm, don't know what was happening there. Was it muliple commits? 00:51:45 and I've learned to assume if something feels clunky with git, it usually means there's a better way 00:52:00 That's a good maxim with all technology. 00:52:02 I was doing a git rebase master 00:52:13 while on my feature branch 00:52:33 johnstein: Was this forked from the master or new_nemelex 00:52:34 and yea, had 3 situations where I had 6 files to resolve 00:53:24 %git 5dbbf13 00:53:24 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-962-g5dbbf13: Fix royal jellies being 6 times more likely from acquirement than rations 10(11 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5dbbf134ce8b 00:53:31 that's where I forked my feature branch 00:53:41 I did one silly merge of new_nemelex 00:53:46 but I immediately reverted it 00:53:55 so maybe that's messing me up 00:54:04 I should probably do git rebase -i master 00:54:12 and remove that one from the list 00:54:22 unless git is smart enough to not apply then revert 00:55:01 but it's ok 00:55:08 Oh, wait, you merged new_nemelex and then reverted it? 00:55:18 I'm still learning good git flows 00:55:32 You really should rewrite history to remove those commit entirely. 00:55:46 with rebase, each commit has to be handled individually. 00:55:47 reaverb: https://github.com/jmbjr/dbro/commits/pot_grog_ds 00:56:08 reaverb: ok. I will do that 00:56:33 I've never really known how best to organize myself 00:56:42 most places say 'commit early and often' 00:56:57 (By the way if you have a commit you want to put "actually" in front of you should git commit --amend) 00:57:22 but that results in a lot of dumb little commits 00:57:33 johstein: Commiting early and often is what you should do, it's far easier to rewrite history with really small little commits than really huge, monster ones. 00:57:35 that I assume would get squashed into a single 'patch' 00:57:40 yea 00:57:53 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:57:54 it seems like a good idea. but cleaning up later seems really tedious 00:58:10 johnstein: Well it's a lot more tedious when it becomes a mess later :D 00:58:37 It takes practice, I find rewriting history fun sometimes. 00:58:47 like that silly potion I'm working on. at one point I tried to add a 'song of slaying' effect to it. worked, but didn't feel right, so I had to remove it. maybe I should rewrite that out of the history? 00:59:12 johnstein: That is a textbook example of something which should be removed from the history. 00:59:36 is there any consideration on "maybe I might want to add it back later?" or is that where git reflog comes in handy? 01:00:02 that is, the commits are still there. just not in the history of the branch I'm working on 01:00:03 johnstein: In that case, make a third branch with the song of slaying still in. 01:00:08 What potion are you working on? 01:00:12 Grunt: grinder doesn't have a title 01:00:16 and keep the history of the orginal branch clean. 01:00:22 gammafunk: Intentional. 01:00:31 Just like Blork the Orc 01:00:39 magicpoints: oh, just trying to modify the 'bad' potions into 'interesting' ones (like lignification) 01:00:41 Intentional would be a terrible title 01:01:00 gammafunk: Heh, it's because "Grinder" is sort of a title. 01:01:03 so basically, you have a feature branch with EVERYTHING, and a pruned feature branch? 01:01:17 Just feels that way. And titles are all about feels. 01:01:42 hm. actually, that's not quite what you said reaverb 01:01:54 hrm, my feels are the opposite, but I'm not sure I'd fight Grunt over it 01:01:56 he's dangerous 01:02:01 johnstein: Hmm? 01:02:15 reaverb: oh, just trying to work out the work flow 01:02:33 johnstein: No, you have a feature branch for EACH thing you revert, and a pruned feature branch. At least that's how I do it. 01:02:49 what about ignacio 01:03:00 oh never mind 01:03:01 he's in there 01:03:33 johnstein: I've gotten 4-5 branches on the same thing in extreme cases, that might not be the best way - I'm not a git expert. 01:03:39 reaverb: so if your feature branch is dabbling in a lot of things... yea, that 01:03:49 Vashnia the Elite Marksnaga, more like Vashnia who cheats to get a high killratio 01:03:59 gammafunk: How does she cheat? 01:04:00 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:04:09 she just clearly is 01:04:21 reaverb: thanks for the info. I'll try again later. bedtime 01:04:34 gammafunk: Clearly is what? 01:04:47 johnstein: Sure, I should got to sleep too soon. 01:05:12 no way that killratio is right! 01:05:29 !killration Vashnia 01:05:31 Vashnia wins 6.543% of battles. 01:05:40 !killratio Lamia 01:05:42 Lamia wins 11.24% of battles. 01:05:52 !killratio Donald 01:05:54 Donald wins 1.091% of battles. 01:06:12 !killration asterion 01:06:13 asterion wins 3.104% of battles. 01:06:20 gammafunk: What do you think of Asterion's title. 01:06:26 it's pretty good 01:06:34 magicpoints: Yes I have no idea why !killration works either. 01:06:39 !kw !killration 01:06:39 No keyword '!killration' 01:06:49 !cmd !killration 01:06:49 kw aren't commands 01:06:49 Command: !killration => !killratio 01:07:02 Hmm, somebody must of added that after misspelling it. 01:07:09 It might have even been me. 01:07:38 There was also a player who had killration as an alt name 01:07:58 Hmm 01:08:20 killration sounds like the new permafood 01:09:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:11:45 -!- Cham has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:11:49 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:15:07 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:56 -!- moose has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:19 Kvaak: food id minigame? you eat it and you're fatally poisoned 01:18:21 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:22:25 worth the chance of winration 01:23:08 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:34 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:24:07 that sounds suspiciously like eating kobold chunks to identify rPois 01:25:18 -!- buddhastalin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:08 we do love minigames 01:27:46 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:11 gammafunk: we had Grinder the Cruel for a bit. I'm ambivalent. 01:28:23 I kind of like that 01:28:46 maybe also show the uniques current killratio when they enter los 01:29:05 or when you xv them 01:29:21 hah 01:29:36 Formicids "feel slightly jumpy" when putting on a ring of teleportation by golthoon 01:29:51 you'll need a local sequell or equivalent for offline 01:29:58 gammafunk: btw I prefer "The Grinder" <_< 01:30:12 Well with the "The" there it is ok, yeah 01:30:51 -!- SupermanBananaX has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:33:48 -!- zercules has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:24 !function cast_simulacrum 01:34:25 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/spl-summoning.cc;hb=HEAD#l2025 01:38:17 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:19 hrm, for monster simulacra, how does everyone feel about it behaving like animate dead? 01:41:28 for the player version, we're going with the animate skel approach 01:41:30 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:05 it could be animate dead style, but make a smaller number per monster 01:42:09 say half as many 01:42:49 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:44:52 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:46:01 The main point of simulacrum is to be able to spawn a pile of nasties when you need it, forcing it to be tied to immobile corpses makes for degenerate behavior (Dragging monsters back to your field of corpses so you can animate them) 01:46:43 Being able to cart a stack of chunks for a while lets you choose the location for them (Since they're both short-lived and fragile that's important) 01:46:59 well 1) I'm talking about monster simulacra (the spell that monsters cast) 01:47:19 and 2) the new version of the spell for players works like animate skel 01:47:27 so there's no point in dragging monsters anywhere 01:48:18 -!- jeffro_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:42 Sorry, I may be behind, is "works like animate skeleton" "has to be standing on top of the corpse" or is there a new version of animate skel 01:48:51 has to be standing on top 01:49:03 So then there's just as much reason to drag mobs. 01:49:05 and if short-lived is truly a problem, we can just make them not short lived 01:49:29 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:49:33 (Since you can't cart the simulacrum around with you until you find something to fight) 01:49:36 dragging around monsters for that purpose sounds like not-optimal behavior 01:49:55 Ah, that's not what I meant. 01:50:21 thing is with old (current) simulacrum you could create a bunch of hard-hitting glass cannons for unexplored floors 01:50:31 dragging monsters to a "corpse pile" is what I'm referring to 01:50:38 I meant: Kill something, you'd like to use it's corpse for simulacrum, to do so you have to find something and drag it back to the corpse so you can kill it with the spell. 01:50:41 now you can only do that if you have kiku corpse drop available or something 01:51:00 like I said, we can make the simulacra like zombies and not have a duration 01:51:07 and as for frail, well they're supposed to be frail 01:51:10 Well, that would probably be good. 01:51:13 (No duration) 01:51:34 Or maybe like "Duration about as long as a chunk would take to rot away completely" 01:52:34 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:37 Which would make for about the same usefulness functionally (without the ability to transport it across floors, which is actually a very large loss) 01:52:55 (but I understand that might be part of the thing that people object to being "a thing") 01:53:24 like I said you can't use the new simulacra to help clearing completely unexplored floors 01:53:32 all I'm objecting to is the fact that my question is about monster simulacra, not player simulacra 01:53:32 since they don't follow you up/down stairs 01:53:45 Yeah, sorry, that's way off-topic 01:54:02 I don't have any objection to your proposal for the monster spell. 01:54:07 Personally. 01:54:33 (Perhaps it might be extra-nasty, but that can be hashed out.) 01:54:53 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 01:57:20 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:59:08 -!- FVG has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:05:33 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:09:37 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:12:17 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:17 -!- Mateji has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:28 -!- TheMattybee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:36 monster simulacra currently never actually happens so I say gammafunk idea looks excellent 02:17:45 -!- FVG_ is now known as buzzy 02:17:49 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1230-gf41e293 (34) 02:17:52 -!- buzzy is now known as bazzie 02:25:46 which monsters even get it? 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ZZZzzz…] 07:02:09 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:40 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:43 -!- archaeo has joined ##crawl-dev 07:12:33 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:15:29 -!- Mister_Fox has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:16:10 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:17:11 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:51 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:00 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:46 -!- gnuvince has quit [Changing host] 07:33:22 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:39 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:35:53 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:36:12 typo: Nessos the Markscentair 07:36:49 <|amethyst> %git f41e2931 07:36:50 07Grunt02 * 0.15-a0-1230-gf41e293: Typo fix (ontoclasm). 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f41e2931f9f6 07:37:07 oh :) 07:38:45 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:24 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:34 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:45:55 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:46:26 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:46:54 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:02 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:56:32 -!- scummos| has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:00 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:23 -!- scummos| has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:24 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Quit: CKyle_] 08:01:58 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:08 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10:27 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:37 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:15 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:34 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:03 -!- Yermak has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:03 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:32:48 -!- SirSamVimes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:19 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:28 -!- CSDCMS has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:41 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:07:02 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:38 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:11:19 -!- ActinalWhomp has joined ##crawl-dev 09:17:11 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 09:18:55 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:47 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:42:29 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 09:45:48 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:14 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:47:05 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:49:59 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:50:36 Ashenzari warns you: A ravenous helmet mimic is! by Sar 09:50:52 rip it is 09:52:15 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:29 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:59 but hey, at least you have a mtla! 09:56:58 -!- Psimage has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:32 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:00:52 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:06:35 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:44 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:15 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:07:43 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:07:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:07:50 wheals: Something is. 10:08:10 I kind of want to just close that with 'working as intended' 10:08:12 It is a mimic! 10:08:21 !send Bloax it 10:08:21 Sending it to Bloax. 10:08:29 !send grunt exploded by 10:08:30 Sending exploded by to grunt. 10:08:34 -!- bedkrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:36 !send PleasingFungus blown up by 10:08:36 Sending blown up by to PleasingFungus. 10:09:02 w/e 10:10:28 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:11:24 !send Grunt blasted by 10:11:25 Sending blasted by to Grunt. 10:12:38 !send wheals slain by 10:12:38 Sending slain by to wheals. 10:15:53 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:18:46 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:49 Ashenzari warns you, "Grunt is!" 10:19:06 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 10:19:21 * Grunt warns you: Ashenzari is. 10:19:32 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Client Quit] 10:19:34 actually, Cheibriados is these days 10:20:50 * wheals warns you: Grunt is a foul. 10:21:11 I hope the next info bot that gets added is called Ashenzari 10:21:30 and then we can implement a !warn command 10:22:01 actually that was the predecessor to Chei 10:22:25 huh 10:22:56 well, in crawl context it *is* kinda obvious as an infobot name 10:23:13 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:35 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:23:37 uh I think Sif Muna might disagree 10:23:37 archaeo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:23:44 !messages 10:23:44 (1/1) PleasingFungus said (1w 15h 56m 50s ago): I lied :P Good guess, though! 10:23:57 dang 10:24:00 sif might disagree but omniscience *is* Ash's schtick 10:25:29 get out cszo troll 10:25:52 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:42 UNUSED(pow); 10:27:48 template < class T > 10:27:49 static inline void UNUSED(const volatile T &) 10:27:49 { 10:27:49 } 10:28:10 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:15 not sure what that guru magic is all about 10:29:23 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:30:11 hrm, so we're definitely keeping vp blood bottling for now? 10:30:52 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:30:52 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 29.0.1/20140511074055]] 10:30:57 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:34:21 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:34:55 could the bottling happen in lieu of creatures dropping meat? 10:36:58 |amethyst: you monster: http://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/271pmr/premature_death_to_my_1st_15rune_victory/ 10:41:47 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:43:16 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:43:58 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:50 -!- zxc232 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:46:26 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:49:30 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:46 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:06 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:08 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 10:51:34 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:50 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:20 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 11:05:46 <|amethyst> gammafunk: already sent a pm to the user with a copy of their save :) 11:05:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: though they'll have to build smithgod themselves 11:06:30 TSO of cszo does what he can... 11:06:52 |amethyst: what is the point of that UNUSED(pow) line? 11:07:03 !function animate_dead 11:07:04 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/godabil.cc;hb=HEAD#l1603 11:07:07 is the relevant function 11:07:54 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:08:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: it's a function template that takes one argument and does nothing with it 11:08:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: probably the volatile parameter is so that the parameter won't be optimised out 11:09:08 I got the idea it's just to avoid a compiler warning about an unused variable, just wasn't sure why anyone would do that 11:09:22 as in, why not remove the variable 11:09:22 <|amethyst> that's exactly what it's for 11:09:45 <|amethyst> probably that one can be removed 11:09:50 <|amethyst> places where you'd keep it: 11:10:01 <|amethyst> 1. whether the variable is used depends on #defines 11:10:09 maybe the function is passed as an argument somewhere 11:10:20 <|amethyst> 2. the function has to match a certain parameter list because of what you said 11:10:26 <|amethyst> s/parameter list/signature/ 11:10:30 yeah, didn't think about no. 1 11:10:35 well, thanks for the info 11:11:11 <|amethyst> I guess also 3. Someone might want to make power have an effect someday 11:12:23 <|amethyst> though the power would be very very low for monsters 11:12:29 <|amethyst> well 11:12:56 <|amethyst> I guess not *very very*, but 5 + random2(5) 11:13:13 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:15 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:10 <|amethyst> and yred animate would use SK_INVOCATIONS + 1 which is still quite low compared to spell power numbers (except that it has a cap of 0 :) 11:14:20 <|amethyst> s/that it/that the spell/ 11:19:51 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:21:53 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:50 -!- Vaporware has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:50 -!- Vaporware has quit [Changing host] 11:26:50 -!- Vaporware has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:13 -!- chance_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:24 is ther any way to host your own DCSS server? 11:34:02 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:29 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:35:15 chance_: |amethyst would be the person to ask about how to go about doing that :) 11:35:26 beware the server cost... 11:35:53 Beware the bandwidth cost? 11:35:57 <|amethyst> johnstein has done it most recently! 11:35:58 <|amethyst> https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=setting_up_dgamelaunch_and_webtiles 11:36:06 <|amethyst> well 11:36:08 <|amethyst> actually 11:36:26 <|amethyst> do you want to have console + webtiles, just webtiles, ? 11:36:35 <|amethyst> and do you want to be an "official" server? 11:37:23 <|amethyst> Just a plain self-standing webtiles server is pretty easy to set up 11:37:30 im just looking for something to use personally 11:37:35 <|amethyst> see webserver/README 11:37:44 webtile i guess, and thank you very much! 11:48:14 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:05 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:54:20 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:54 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:08 Natasha will not display her death message is she kills herself while confused. by NTRAFF 12:03:15 A test balloon: the current situation for wands & identification is not ideal (at least I will always fire unidentified wands at a spot two spaces away, as soon as I am in safe position). We could id on pickup, but I'd like to propose something else before that: 12:03:19 Wand behaviour as now, but evoking a wand with unknown charges will use up a random amount of charges (say 1d3). 12:03:45 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:55 Analysis: players do identify their top tier wands already, so no change here. With my proposal, I hope to make players think about blowing ?id elsewhere, at least sometimes. Thoughts? 12:04:08 How would you expose this to players? 12:04:10 sounds like a penalty tacked on just to keep id relevant 12:04:17 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:26 Eronarn: thanks for the meaningful input 12:05:10 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:24 PleasingFungus: the trivial solution is to put it in the manual. However, it is certainly possible to augment the current message so that you see that dealing with this only partially understood device is not perfect. 12:05:53 (For perspective: this is a similar train of thought that led me to suggest ?id on decks to reveal the top card.) 12:06:03 <|amethyst> dpeg: I would like to see more uses for ID, yes 12:06:26 <|amethyst> dpeg: I think what Eronarn is trying to say, or at least part of it, is that it feels like putting on a band-aid after doing an amputation 12:06:32 yeah, if you were going to do this, I think it'd have to be a different message - it's nice to put things in the manual, but you can't expect that any given player has read it. 12:06:39 <|amethyst> given what's happened to ID in the past few versions 12:06:56 In my case, I wouldn't use ?id on very many wands, but an early /cold, /fire etc. might be a target for me. Depends on the thread and scarcity of ?id in this particular game, of course. 12:07:14 the idea is to start doing more to make ID interesting and relevant, I think - swinging back in the opposite direction, after having removed a lot of the uses for ID (for good reason!) 12:07:24 <|amethyst> yeah 12:07:38 rather than just being a band-aid, it'd be the first step down the road to ID rehabilitation 12:07:39 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:07:41 |amethyst: I understand, but it'd be nice if others wouldn't have to interpret the meaning. I've written why I think the id minigame is worth having, so now I am looking for making it better. 12:08:21 PleasingFungus: yes, I have lots more radical ideas but this one seemed timid enough to mention here :) 12:08:25 I wonder whether a 'scroll of shafting' would be a fun item 12:08:35 would definitely spice up the scroll-id minigame 12:08:52 though I guess that'd encourage read-iding scrolls by going back to d:1 12:08:53 <|amethyst> dpeg: What are the advantages over *don't* ID wands on pickup and do give the penalty? 12:08:55 PleasingFungus: yes. Although for id purposes, we'll hear from players who go to D:1 (or Temple) for id purposes :) 12:08:57 yeah 12:09:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess that you have information on which to base your decision the first time 12:09:18 <|amethyst> dpeg: but the decision remains for the second and the third wand 12:09:44 <|amethyst> (of the same type) 12:09:57 |amethyst: sometimes, I actally use ?id on fully unknown wands. This is when I am in danger, and have ?id to spare. In these case, I'd save charges with the proposal. (Hopefully on a good wand!) 12:10:17 <|amethyst> dpeg: radical proposal: allow identify to work on enemies 12:10:17 dpeg: i don't think that making your wands worse unless you read ID on them contributes to the ID minigame 12:10:25 it just turns ID scrolls into mini recharging scrolls that you can use once per wand 12:10:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: to ID their equipment (one piece or all, whatever) 12:10:52 <|amethyst> dpeg: I guess that's probably horrid from a UI perspective 12:10:54 I don't think "make identification do something other than identify the item" is the right way to fix the ID game, yeah 12:11:28 I have no clue why you people think that I want to "fix the id game" with a miniscule change like this. 12:11:37 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:11:48 it doesn't fix it, but i don't think it even *helps* it 12:11:57 I just want to increase the number of potentially useful ?id targets. 12:12:07 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:24 <|amethyst> make curses more plentiful (on good items too) and greatly reduce remove curse? 12:12:45 <|amethyst> well, I guess "on good items too" is orthogonal so ignore that part 12:13:04 |amethyst: can be done, but then we're in an area of interlocking mechanics, and it gets more complicated. 12:13:07 <|amethyst> (ashenzari can convert ID scrolls instead) 12:13:36 |amethyst: or could convert ?rc to curse scrolls on a better rate than 1:1 (this is also what I propose on the equipgod for ?ea, ?ew). 12:14:41 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:15:06 <|amethyst> I'm trying to think of other ways to make identify more useful on worn/wielded items 12:15:11 <|amethyst> err 12:15:18 <|amethyst> on the kinds of items you would wear/wield 12:15:48 <|amethyst> since the problem with consumables is the you use ID once per item type and there are only a limited number of those in the game 12:16:02 Just kill the ID game already 12:16:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1230-gf41e293 (34) 12:16:56 |amethyst: my more radicaly proposal is this (it's not fleshed out and not 0.15 stuff, okay): using a randart (let's stick with jewellery first) will immediately give away and apply all negative properties, and how many positive properties you have. However, these positive properties will only identify slowly (use some function of time, or xp, and/or item's initial floor level). So you can wait and use it, thereby identifying its properties one by one, ... 12:16:57 -!- ActinalWhomp has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:02 ... or blow ?id to make a decision right away. 12:17:20 dtsund: only because you couldn't come up with a decent system? 12:17:34 |amethyst: I don't really see much potential for identification on equipment without pretty radical changes elsewhere, since if the equipment is not a randart then you are just trading a scroll of identify for a (possible) scroll of remove curse 12:17:38 No, because it doesn't really serve the sort of game Crawl is 12:17:49 and if it is a randart then you are just trading a scroll of identify for the remove curse and also the tiny chance of Contam 12:17:49 -!- chance_ is now known as six40sword 12:17:51 dtsund: it serves my games pretty well. 12:18:32 I guess there is the chance of distortion on a weapon or faith on an amulet too 12:18:39 Like with all systems, improvement is much harder than removal. For id, I think it's worth it (which means that I think a lot about it.) 12:18:41 <|amethyst> dpeg: well, in practice you can infer some properties anyway, so we had automatic inference for UI convenience 12:18:52 dpeg: ash currently gives three curse scrolls per remove curse scroll, fyi 12:18:59 |amethyst: oh, the point is you cannot! The ring may have rF but you wouldn't know! 12:19:01 (in fact I would frequently use an ID scroll on randart amulets, even now that they auto-identify) 12:19:09 No time for silly id tricks! 12:19:22 <|amethyst> dpeg: except when you get a resistance message when the dragon breathes on you 12:19:26 well, the 'you resist' would be a pretty strong clue, I'd think... unless the game would hide that information from you too? reduce damage without an indicator? that'd be very odd 12:19:29 PleasingFungus: yes, so that number is a parameter we can keep tweaking. 12:19:32 |amethyst: I assumed dpeg meant that the rF+ doesn't actually apply until it's identified 12:19:33 <|amethyst> dpeg: oh... make it not *do* anything 12:19:41 yes 12:19:43 huh 12:19:54 <|amethyst> that sounds interesting 12:20:01 You know this ring has five potentially game changing properties, but only time or an ?id will tell. 12:20:07 I don't know why I would ever put on an unidentified randart in the first place if its properties are guaranteed to be strictly bad, though... 12:20:17 minmay: it could have none! 12:20:17 eh? 12:20:27 oh I see 12:20:44 I mean if it's *really* early and it's a weapon, maybe 12:20:55 <|amethyst> I think identifying some of the properties to start out wouldn't be terrible 12:20:58 My proposal needs immediate detection and application of negative properties in order to avoid some pretty obvious strange behaviour. 12:21:01 <|amethyst> some of the good ones 12:21:11 dpeg: like what? 12:21:13 |amethyst: there is a huge amount of leeway, no question about that. 12:21:26 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:21:26 PleasingFungus: the item getting worse with time, for example. I don't want that. 12:21:32 mm 12:21:48 <|amethyst> dpeg: right, but if it's strictly negative or zero, there's no real reason to put it on rather than blow an ?id 12:21:50 I'm... not convinced that'd be bad? 12:21:57 <|amethyst> dpeg: unless you're really short on ?id 12:22:03 PleasingFungus: if you don't immediately identify negative properties then you have stupid id tricks like crawl used to have for jewellery etc, if you don't immediately apply negative properties then you'd avoid identifying the item if it's good (because identifying it would make it bad) 12:22:07 <|amethyst> dpeg: or there are many more artefacts than currently to use your ?id 12:22:11 Let's take potions, for example. The difference between ID-game and no-ID-game there is this: without an ID game, you need to have found a potion in order to use it. With the ID game, you need to have found a potion and a scroll of ID in order to use it. The only thing ID does there is throttle your options in the early game, adding a mild interface burden and requiring the use of a randomized resource. 12:22:24 Because use-IDing potions is generally counterindicated. 12:22:34 ??dtsund 12:22:35 dtsund[1/1]: elliott: Speaking as someone who is almost certainly a better player than you, I find that quaff-ID is usually an excellent idea 12:22:51 minmay: except that iding it might just make it better? 12:23:04 dtsund: I am not a really good player, but I am sure that you are over-simplifying things here. 12:23:19 PleasingFungus: you must quaff potions of mutation a lot 12:23:23 I do! 12:23:29 :) 12:24:10 |amethyst, PleasingFungus: sure, but many rings have no negative properties. A middle ground would be to give away as many good as negative properties etc. The basic idea is to create a tradeoff between immediate-id (with scroll) and longer term, free id. 12:24:14 if I find, say, a good demon whip, why would I ever want to add random randart properties to it (by identifying it)? either it stays the same, or it gets worse 12:24:34 well, the idea would be that the items slowly ID over time 12:24:36 <|amethyst> dtsund: but if there were, say, 1/10 the ID scrolls that there are currently, would that still be the case? 12:24:37 just by using them 12:24:55 What this randart proposal would do is have players going around using the randart as a swap for safe situations, which is interface burden 12:24:57 okay so I carry around another, worse weapon to use against things I don't need to use the demon whip against 12:24:58 minmay: you couldn't prevent the properties coming up one by one. And they'd all be positive, so why would you mind? 12:25:00 because using the demon whip makes it worse 12:25:01 great 12:25:07 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:25:08 or better 12:25:17 this is the sort of thing where I'm not convinced your idea of 'optimal play' is optimal? 12:25:20 dpeg: we're talking about pleasingfungus' proposal to make the negative properties initially unidentified at first 12:25:29 ah, I see 12:25:30 dpeg: I'm arguing in *support* of your idea 12:25:37 I thought you were arguing against that too 12:25:40 yes, yes, I happily note 12:25:43 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:07 PleasingFungus: well, I argue against it for other reasons, but I specifically support that, IF dpeg's idea is implemented in any fashion whatsoever, the negative properties should identify and apply right away 12:26:08 |amethyst: It wouldn't be an improvement; ID games with very little ?ID equivalent work best when you have some way to obtain partial information about objects 12:26:17 anyway, *these* are the more long-term ideas I have for id... for now, I just wanted to check if modifying wands slightly could be feasible 12:26:50 NetHack does this in an imperfect fashion, Brogue does it in a more focused fashion, Crawl doesn't 12:27:08 For the record, I suggested to Pender that non-identified rings should work like +1 in Brogue, and it worked very well. (Yes, I am aware of the differences between Crawl and Brogue.) 12:27:35 <|amethyst> ack, I must be going; back in a while 12:27:43 see you! 12:27:51 mm. maybe you're right about negative property ID. I'll drop it 12:28:13 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:44 (By the way, that quote above in my learndb entry is about searching for !curing and !hw early if you've got a lack of ?id) 12:28:47 dtsund: Crawl has a little bit of such partial information (monsters using items). 12:29:03 That's more along the lines of full ID, though 12:29:13 it could be better, yes 12:29:18 I can only think of one situation where it's even partial (!curing vs. !hw) 12:29:22 yeah, the only partial ID is he -yes 12:31:09 id will never be as prominent in Crawl as it is in Nethack or Brogue, but I believe that it plays a meaningful role already now, and can be improved substantially (that means, with actual ideas, not just as a wish) 12:31:27 the partial identification for monsters using curing/heal wounds also doesn't really work - you can almost always tell which one of the two was used 12:31:54 dtsund: re: potions being useless without ID at present. potions are already emergency options; in the early game, where ID is relevant, an unided potion is still an emergency option, just a worse one 12:32:24 I can't help but read that as an argument in favor of random earlygame deaths 12:32:42 "Whoops, I got paralysis. GG, I guess." 12:33:10 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:33:23 strawman 12:33:44 * dpeg goes back to math 12:33:46 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:22 How? He's explicitly arguing that unided potions have use as emergency tools. What I outlined is a rather likely outcome. 12:34:28 sure. 12:34:42 if you don't use the potions, dying is also quite likely. 12:34:48 since you are, presumably, in a tight spot in the early game. 12:34:58 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:35:26 So, dying is likely if you do, and likely if you don't. 12:35:45 paralysis is a pretty small percentage of potions. 12:35:48 it doesn't change the chance though 12:36:08 Paralysis alone, sure. 12:36:12 if you knew it was !para, you just wouldn't have any potions 12:36:26 dtsund: are you saying you don't, at present, ever quaff un-id'd potions? 12:36:31 No, I do. 12:36:38 it doesn't change the chance though if you knew it was !para, you just wouldn't have any potions 12:36:43 wheals: Nonsense 12:36:43 -!- PleasingFungus has left ##crawl-dev 12:36:46 this is only true if the only potions in your inventory are potions of paralysis 12:36:47 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:36:51 What he said 12:37:53 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 12:43:08 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:10 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:48:07 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:48:42 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:50:41 -!- the_glow1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:50:44 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:53 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:51:51 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:52:28 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:53:29 -!- blabber has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:56:18 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:17 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:22 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:00:16 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 13:07:34 -!- N78291 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:40 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:08:55 I have an ossuary entrance in the smithgod branch that has a bailey portal in it 13:11:51 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:25 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:40 -!- NTRAFF has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:15:19 nice 13:18:18 take the bailey portal 13:18:43 oh I see what you mean - I thought you meant the bailey portal was inside the ossuary 13:21:16 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:43 me too 13:27:18 fr: nested portals 13:27:20 portal portals 13:27:35 I guess those are zigs, but who uses those? seriously 13:27:51 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:48 -!- Psimage has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:29 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:43 PleasingFungus: looks like it crashes when you enter 13:37:55 haha 13:38:05 !lm N78291 13:38:06 68866. [2014-05-16 03:58:28] 78291 the Sorcerer (L27 NaAE of Qazlal) found a silver rune of Zot on turn 107882. (Vaults:5) 13:38:07 !lm N78291 crash 13:38:08 24. [2014-01-18 00:58:35] 78291 the Master Archer (L27 HEHu of Dithmenos) ERROR in 'tags.cc' at line 3288: Invalid item: longbow (Hell) 13:38:34 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/78291/crash-78291-20140602-183722.txt 13:45:31 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 13:45:56 -!- Redz has left ##crawl-dev 13:50:54 -!- denstark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:48 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:53 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:56:00 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:05 -!- HDA has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:07 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:58:14 Porbably some enum stuff, Hmm. 13:58:35 fix for OS X / *BSD strlcpy warning causes another warning in tiles build by geekosaur 14:01:23 I have a question about Spellforged Servitor. Some spells like orb of destruction and chain lightning will turn it hostile, but some other spells, like freezing cloud will not. Its a pretty dangerous monster to have hostile to you often and there isn't even a prompt about harming him with chain lightning. Any chance it could be changed to be more friendly? 14:02:18 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:59 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:03 There is already plenty of danger using the Spellforged Servitor, many of his spells can hit you indirectly and do plenty of damage 14:05:30 !lg * killer=spellforged_servitor x=kaux 14:05:30 7. [kaux=orb of destruction] Zeia the Devastator (L21 GrCj of Vehumet), blown up by spellforged servitor on Vaults:4 (v_misc_3) on 2014-05-18 14:36:12, with 301608 points after 90331 turns and 6:37:22. 14:05:35 also directly! 14:06:08 I had one particularly funny death when he confused me with dazzling spray :) 14:07:07 ??blown up by[spellforged 14:07:07 blown_up_by[7/8]: Zeia the Devastator (L21 GrCj of Vehumet), blown up by spellforged servitor on Vaults:4 (v_misc_3) on 2014-05-18 14:36:12, with 301608 points after 90331 turns and 6:37:22. 14:09:11 how do you place a portal vault in wizmode, &L doesn't seem to do it 14:10:23 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:57 N78291: &P or &L and entry vault, iirc 14:11:40 looks like &L actually does do it, I just got a stone arch instead of a portal entry with a wizlab because of the bug 14:13:18 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:09 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 14:17:25 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:20:51 V - 140 fruits 14:20:53 from one vault 14:20:56 chunkless is a thing 14:22:08 I wonder if that's one of the vaults that wheals fixed? 14:23:38 I don't see any in the diff between the full branch smithgod difffs, is that portal vault but replicatabled in master? 14:23:58 -!- gnuvince has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:07 http://bpaste.net/raw/S5uZzCrD2eYrms9McKmt/ 14:24:14 pretty sure this is the problem 14:24:27 I guess it needs save compat stuff though? 14:24:33