00:00:23 Patashu_: Kind of confused here? 00:00:45 the bug is the message 00:00:51 and the fact that it makes an exclusion around a statue shaped block of ice 00:01:00 (possibly also the fact that there's a statue shaped block of ice to begin with - isn't a statue a dummy enemy?) 00:01:15 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:01:52 <|amethyst> auto_exclude += statue is in the default config 00:01:57 <|amethyst> dat/defaults/misc.txt 00:02:32 is it worth reporting other bugs from this old game? Bad item: cursed -5,-4 dagger of Xom's Esteem {buggy, rElec MR+ Stlth-} 00:02:58 |amethyst: ok, that explains that part, but.. 00:03:03 how do you make a statue shaped block of ice in the first place 00:03:07 there are no statues on thiz zig level 00:03:12 (the center is the ancient lich grate thing and the theme is tomb) 00:03:59 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14.1-18-g0856e53 00:04:05 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:48 <|amethyst> rchandra: do you know what that used to be? 00:05:03 I don't 00:05:14 just saw it when travelling 00:06:54 <|amethyst> hm 00:07:06 <|amethyst> I'm guessing it's either returning or orc slaying 00:07:39 I can check the log since it's an artefact, might be noted 00:08:15 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1212-g8ecc765 (34) 00:08:51 not noted as it's in a shop 00:09:12 <|amethyst> do you have a copy of the save? 00:09:17 <|amethyst> err 00:09:30 <|amethyst> I mean, is this online or off? 00:10:40 online, cszo hyperrchandra 00:13:06 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14.1-18-g0856e53 (34) 00:16:09 <|amethyst> it's slay orc 00:16:16 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:43 -!- AtomikKrab is now known as bedkrab 00:18:13 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:43 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1213-gdd43c9f: Don't mark obsolete-branded weapons as buggy (rchandra) 10(24 seconds ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd43c9fbf08c 00:18:50 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1212-g8ecc765 (34) 00:18:56 <|amethyst> hm 00:19:08 <|amethyst> I guess I should be consistent about the terse descs 00:25:07 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 00:26:09 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:23 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:54 03reaverb02 07[chunkless] * 0.15-a0-1216-gab3ce44: Remove amulets of the gourmand 10(5 hours ago, 13 files, 19+ 50-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab3ce4494e5a 00:28:54 03reaverb02 07[chunkless] * 0.15-a0-1217-ga97b322: Remove DUR_GOURMAND 10(4 hours ago, 7 files, 11+ 66-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a97b322c210c 00:30:28 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:36:38 rip 00:37:12 imho crawl is running low on jewellery 00:37:14 need to add more shit 00:37:26 first up: amulet of adornment 00:37:29 powerful gozag bonuses 00:37:46 PleasingFungus: Yes, I agree there is a shortage of jewellery designs. 00:38:21 remove amulet slot 00:38:24 and I could see more being removed in the future. 00:38:25 then, hm. amulet of polymorph control, perhaps 00:39:08 is there any reason to not use faith on any char where faith is not completely useless now 00:39:25 randart amulets 00:39:31 or non-rand-arts, I guess 00:39:41 Nerfing faith would be completely reasonable. 00:39:41 um. warding is occasionally sort of useful 00:39:47 booo 00:40:08 <|amethyst> Amulets were the "get rid of annoyances" item type 00:40:18 <|amethyst> so as we get rid of annoyances... 00:40:53 fr: new annoyances 00:40:55 <|amethyst> :q 00:40:57 <|amethyst> doh 00:41:00 succubi. steal items 00:41:03 amulet of theft protection 00:42:07 idk. I read (most of) the nethack TAS you linked to earlier and now I'm stuck in a 'dumb nethack jokes' mode 00:42:15 With maurice I could see that as a randart. Maybe also give sInv and telepathy. 00:42:16 I blame grunt 00:42:37 reaverb: an amulet that protects against one, early-game, non-guaranteed unique? 00:42:43 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1214-g8274541: Mark obsolete brands as obsolete. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8274541554a1 00:43:12 PleasingFungus: As an additional effect to other, more serious effects maybe. It's probably a bad idea though. 00:43:28 <|amethyst> Amulet of Scythe Resistance 00:43:31 if it existed, you'd demand it be removed, for adding code complexity to no benefit 00:43:40 |amethyst: powerful in extended! 00:43:41 :P 00:43:47 amulet of reflection 00:43:53 PleasingFungus: Yes, that's why I'm saying it's a bad idea in retrospect. 00:43:57 rip 00:44:13 oh, while we're talking about code 00:44:52 !source mon-ench.cc:154 00:44:52 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-ench.cc;hb=HEAD#l154 00:45:01 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0/20140414143035]] 00:45:04 I'm about 80% sure this block does nothing 00:45:55 (also it's very ugly & makes me sad) 00:46:32 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:35 Why do you think that block does nothing? 00:46:54 well, it's right below add_enchantment_effect(ench) 00:47:21 and that also calls align_avatars ? 00:47:27 which, given ench.ench in [ENCH_CHARM, ENCH_BRIBED, ENCH_PERMA_BRIBED], will call mons_att_changed() 00:47:31 which, yes, calls align_avatars() 00:47:49 the block I linked uses force_friendly = true, but I don't think that flag is actually useful? 00:47:54 Ok, why not delete the block, recompile, and try it in wizmode? 00:49:00 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:02 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:06 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:49:27 vaguely worried that there's a case I'm overlooking. idk. I'll look at it again tomorrow morning 00:51:59 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:12 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 00:53:18 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus re the align_avatar calls, maybe ask gammafunk; since he added both of those calls in the same commit there's probably a reason for it 00:53:18 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 01:00:02 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:00:25 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:10 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:24 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:53 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:46 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:12:22 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:02 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 01:18:54 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:20:17 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:25 -!- rast- is now known as rast 01:22:37 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:38 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:32:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:36:40 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:48:48 -!- zeia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:28 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:16 -!- Morik_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:00:27 -!- phalm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:04:07 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:12 -!- Raycaster has quit [Client Quit] 02:14:02 -!- gastrox has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:18:19 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14.1-18-g0856e53 02:23:27 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:25:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 02:26:41 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1214-g8274541 (34) 02:33:31 Z removed MONS_SPINY_WORM zombie 02:33:39 -!- nightshade has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:42 nice 02:38:41 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:08 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:56:10 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 02:56:24 !tell |amethyst tiles compilation on smithgod_rebased should be fixed now. Sorry about that mistake. 02:56:24 reaverb: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 02:59:22 03reaverb02 07[smithgod_rebased] * 0.15-a0-1172-g227664b: Add some untracked tiles 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=227664bb16f5 02:59:22 03reaverb02 07[smithgod_rebased] * 0.15-a0-1173-g03aea44: Fix braces 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03aea44e674d 03:00:53 -!- ebarrett_ has quit [] 03:01:08 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:05:04 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:08:53 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:09:53 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:10 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:15:17 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17:51 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:19:49 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:19:57 -!- rast- is now known as rast 03:22:11 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:11 -!- Blomdor has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:24:50 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:44 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:31 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:27:42 -!- rast- is now known as rast 03:28:31 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:29:05 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:47 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:10 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:05 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:00 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:05 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:37:22 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:24 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:45:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:49:03 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:51:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:48 -!- buddhastalin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:05 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:03:26 Shadow mimic throws quivered item, not actual thrown item. by FishServ 04:05:37 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 04:07:43 -!- Kramin has quit [Client Quit] 04:14:25 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:24:23 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:51:38 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:51:39 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:52:32 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 04:54:48 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:13 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:50 -!- NearlyNeutral has quit [Quit: bye] 05:25:06 l0ser140 (L20 KoEn) ASSERT(a) in 'itemprop.cc' at line 688 failed. (No actor in stationary net at (38,17)) (Elf:3) 05:25:59 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:08 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:09 -!- rast- is now known as rast 05:34:56 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:37:20 -!- Stelpa6 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:47:35 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:43 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:09:15 -!- Euph0ria has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:09:15 -!- Euph0riaX has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:10:05 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:00 Dithmenos forgives identifying wands of firesomething but not forest fires that start from it. by LIX 06:15:11 -!- PossessedDevil has quit [Client Quit] 06:16:50 You feel extremely guilty. 06:18:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:29 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:34:18 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:35 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:56 -!- Kramin has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:16:57 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:46 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 07:25:53 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 07:25:57 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:26:01 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:39 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 07:27:31 !learn e wheals[2] s/\(.*plus1.// 07:27:32 wheals[2/4]: todo: fix ghost speed , | for wielded weapons, remove cTele, remove RMsl spell 07:27:39 oh oops 07:28:10 !learn set wheals[2] todo: fix ghost speed, improve jewel acq, temporary brands, | for wielded weapons, remove cTele, remove RMsl spell 07:28:10 wheals[2/4]: todo: fix ghost speed, improve jewel acq, temporary brands, | for wielded weapons, remove cTele, remove RMsl spell 07:28:24 !learn e wheals[2] s/$/, tunneling worms 07:28:24 wheals[2/4]: todo: fix ghost speed, improve jewel acq, temporary brands, | for wielded weapons, remove cTele, remove RMsl spell, tunneling worms 07:30:50 re #8624, probably dith should prevent forest fires 07:31:12 (maybe even on characters that aren't worshipping dith) 07:33:41 what does that mean 07:33:42 remove forest fires? 07:36:44 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:49 yes 07:52:06 -!- Eyesburn has quit [Client Quit] 07:54:45 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 07:55:11 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:55:38 -!- CSDCS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:02 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:11:54 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:03 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:43 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 08:31:39 <|amethyst> so turn trees into walls that can't be shattered? 08:31:39 |amethyst: You have 14 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:31:47 <|amethyst> err 08:31:54 <|amethyst> can be shattered, can't be dug 08:33:31 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:07 <|amethyst> !lm l0ser140 crash -log 08:35:08 1. l0ser140, XL20 KoEn, T:64557 (milestone): http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/l0ser140/crash-l0ser140-20140601-102504.txt 08:35:30 <|amethyst> ah 08:35:32 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:13 <|amethyst> yeah, killing the monster doesn't de-stationary its net 08:36:51 <|amethyst> but walking over the net does? 08:38:57 -!- DKR has quit [Client Quit] 08:39:07 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:42:36 can't be dug but can be disintegrated with a wand of fire 08:42:45 <|amethyst> Ah 08:46:34 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:56:57 -!- Sarzael has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:00:09 -!- geekosaur has quit [Excess Flood] 09:00:21 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:41 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:07:06 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:11:22 <|amethyst> re the crash, the net does become unstationary, but the item_info in map_knowledge isn't updated 09:16:53 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 09:20:43 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:22:03 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:24 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:24:25 -!- MDvedh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:26:36 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 09:29:47 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:29:58 -!- rast- is now known as rast 09:30:52 notify_dgn_event: Lua error: [string "global_prelude"]:94: Bad item name: 'pear' 09:31:01 (this on eringya's formal garden wizlab) 09:31:54 <|amethyst> Kvaak: what version? 09:32:08 0.15-a0-1156-gfd0dc40 09:32:14 <|amethyst> agh 09:32:15 <|amethyst> ah 09:32:17 <|amethyst> fixed in 09:32:22 oh, okay 09:32:22 <|amethyst> %git 6f8b3a6 09:32:35 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-1195-g6f8b3a6: Fix wizlab_eringya's fruit placement (Lightli) 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f8b3a6e3600 09:37:11 -!- ZRN_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:37:33 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:21 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:52 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:52 !seen gammafunk 09:44:52 I last saw gammafunk at Sun Jun 1 10:34:56 2014 UTC (4h 9m 56s ago) joining the channel. 09:45:46 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1215-g8da35e9: Avoid a crash when escaping nets. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8da35e98ad92 09:45:48 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:45:48 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 09:46:15 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:40 so it appears that rods are priced based on the number of charges, and the + is ignored 09:46:53 this doesn't seem ideal 09:47:28 probably not 09:47:57 <|amethyst> !tell qoala re the lost soul monster crash, I'm a little wary about creating another monster, since unlike doors it will act 09:47:57 |amethyst: OK, I'll let qoala know. 09:47:58 !source shopping.cc:1795 09:47:59 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/shopping.cc;hb=HEAD#l1795 09:48:17 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:48:52 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:51:09 <|amethyst> 1. does 50 per plus sound reasonable? Or 60, so as to count it for acc and damage 09:51:28 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:51:41 <|amethyst> 2. should blowguns count their plusses for $50 each (like plus2) or even $60? 09:51:59 -!- stanzill is now known as stanzwecha 09:52:22 for most characters, blowgun + doesn't matter all that much 09:52:53 !send wheals the stabbing cost......... 09:52:53 Sending the stabbing cost......... to wheals. 09:53:00 needlestabbing cost I guess 09:53:01 idk 09:56:20 blowgun plus could cost the same as weapon plus2 probably, yeah 09:56:44 unrelated: you know what's really silly? gnoll sergeants generating with curing/heal wounds 09:57:05 should gnoll corporals get them too 09:59:19 <|amethyst> Also, though I'm not going to touch this now: if we consider plus2 to be worth 5 times as much as plus, why is EW_II less than twice the price of EW_I ? 10:00:08 |amethyst: most of the value comes from uncursing the weapon, obviously 10:00:08 <|amethyst> ˇlearn add arbitrage 10:00:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00:32 <|amethyst> aha 10:00:45 <|amethyst> 5 for enchanting the plus, 25 for the plus2, and 30 for the curse 10:01:07 <|amethyst> except remove curse is also 30 and does a lot more 10:01:20 <|amethyst> I guess you are paying for convenience 10:01:32 |amethyst: uncursing is only valuable for weapons obviously, jeez do i have to explain everything to you 10:02:52 ash needs to give you a refund when you buy enchant scrolls then 10:03:06 preferably with interest, of course 10:04:11 <|amethyst> Ashenzari watches with interest! 10:04:20 <|amethyst> Zin compounds it! 10:04:51 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 10:06:05 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1216-g319559a: Count rod enchantment towards price (minmay) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=319559a1eff7 10:06:05 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1217-g3441e6d: Increase the price of enchanted blowguns. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3441e6d64d92 10:06:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:05 man, I'd forgotten how truly remarkable acquire.cc's code was. 10:07:28 !send PleasingFungus doodads 10:07:28 Sending doodads to PleasingFungus. 10:07:40 !send wheals gizmos 10:07:40 Sending gizmos to wheals. 10:09:28 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:44 acquire.cc is so buggy it crashed firefox 10:09:56 -!- wheals has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:10:01 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 10:10:37 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:11:14 okay, it appears turning animations off doesn't entirely fix that one autofight bug 10:11:19 just pressed tab and it read a scroll 10:12:40 neil (L1 MfFi) ASSERT(mitm[msl].base_type == OBJ_MISSILES) in 'throw.cc' at line 1018 failed. (D:1) 10:13:04 !crashlog neil 10:13:05 44. neil, XL1 MfFi, T:7 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/neil/crash-neil-20140601-151237.txt 10:13:17 <|amethyst> wheals: #8623 10:13:26 the dith bug? 10:13:33 <|amethyst> es 10:13:34 <|amethyst> yes 10:14:57 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:15:53 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:16:06 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 10:20:25 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:41 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:41 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:29:22 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:26 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 10:33:33 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1218-g4d4ff43: Make dith shadows throw the correct item (#8623) 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 14+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d4ff43f8370 10:33:33 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-1219-g8d0a50c: Don't shadow copy awkward throws. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8d0a50cfbbdc 10:33:43 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:31 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:36 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:38 did it actually throw the quivered item 10:35:10 <|amethyst> wheals: yes 10:35:11 so could you quiver a large rock and toss stones as a human or something 10:35:18 <|amethyst> yes :) 10:37:45 <|amethyst> I'm not sure about the actual damage done though 10:37:55 <|amethyst> because I did get a Your shadow throws a large rock. 10:37:55 <|amethyst> The large rock hits the orc but does no damage. 10:39:56 <|amethyst> I also wonder about whether we should bother shadowing throwing nets 10:40:33 why not? they do damage 10:44:07 <|amethyst> I guess that's true 10:44:11 -!- Morik_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:44:31 <|amethyst> and, unlike needles, there's no risk of the second undoing the effect of the first 10:46:19 <|amethyst> Grunt: does my fix in 4d4ff43 look reasonable? The shadow now only gets a missile in dithmenos_shadow_throw, not in shadow_monster 10:47:57 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 10:48:15 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:52:54 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:16 how come emperor scorpions generate in depths? 11:19:58 erm. is there some cache rebuild I need to do on my local build? starting a game immediately aborts with "No valid temples." 11:20:36 <|amethyst> geekosaur: rm -rf saves/des/ perhaps? 11:21:23 <|amethyst> %git cf00f6 11:21:24 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-2918-gcf00f6c: Depths spawn table overhaul. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 50+ 52-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf00f6c2d70f 11:21:52 <|amethyst> minmay: "on a trial basis for the sake of variety" 11:22:16 that seems to work better, thanks 11:25:28 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14.1-18-g0856e53 11:25:36 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:52 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:41 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:42 -!- rast- is now known as rast 11:41:18 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:42:00 <|amethyst> !tell reaverb somehow 8968ef2 in smithgod managed to remove the return statement from _qazlal_retribution 11:42:01 |amethyst: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 11:42:50 |amethyst: aha 11:42:52 |amethyst: yes 11:43:20 !tell reaverb A lot of the time git's diffs consider returns to be a common point, so that's probably it; be careful in the future. 11:43:21 Grunt: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 11:43:33 <|amethyst> yeah 11:43:42 <|amethyst> *that* return ended up on the igni function 11:43:47 Experimental (smithgod_rebased) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1173-g03aea44 11:45:16 03|amethyst02 07[smithgod_rebased] * 0.15-a0-1174-gf882775: Re-add a return statement. 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f88277571356 11:45:26 Experimental (smithgod_rebased) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1174-gf882775 11:46:01 Webtiles server restarted. 11:46:11 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:46:21 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:48:07 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:51:11 Grunt: what were your chunk plans again? 11:51:11 gammafunk: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:51:19 you had a patch 11:51:27 I was going to remove gourmand, but it touches a bunch of chunk stuff 11:51:29 gammafunk: I had suggestions, not a patch :) 11:51:34 %git chunkless^{/gourmand} 11:51:34 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-1216-gab3ce44: Remove amulets of the gourmand 10(16 hours ago, 13 files, 19+ 50-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ab3ce4494e5a 11:52:03 ok, well that's good since 11:52:10 I can execute your plan 11:52:15 and as for you not having a patch 11:52:22 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:52:24 well, we all know how long it takes you to execute a patch 11:52:35 gammafunk: 1) let ghouls eat corpses off the ground; 2) Sublimation operates on corpses on the ground; 3) Simulacrum either also does that or operates on everything in LOS like Animate Dead. 11:53:00 (at which point chunks are completely useless and can disappear) 11:53:04 (rot away, if you will) 11:53:04 option 3 sounds kind of crazy 11:53:20 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:31 well simulacra is a spell with a big investment 11:53:37 but yeah it would be rather powerful 11:53:44 I kind of like the idea of monster Simulacrum being threatening and not having all that weird apportation code, too :b 11:53:54 gammafunk: you mean "quite powerful" 11:54:01 right, and monster code for handling chunks 11:54:12 but that would go away obviously as well in either scenario 11:54:14 *scenario 11:54:15 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:24 I think you have to have simulacra be like animate dead 11:54:33 if it was like ani skel., it'd be a big nerf 11:55:02 I suppose it could become a higher level if need be 11:55:13 or a lower level if we went with the first approach 11:56:38 one thing I realized with current chunkless, is that lair proper has significantly less food compared to dungeon 11:56:42 not sure if that's a big deal or not 11:57:25 only for spammy conjurers probably 11:57:29 I did a fast-going NaVM of sif that died in orc 11:57:39 and I was at 12 meat rations, bread all gone 11:57:47 didn't feel like I would starve, but I might if I wasn't careful 11:57:51 which is good I guess 11:58:01 had been spamming vbolt a lot 11:58:59 Grunt: are you planning to haste yourself and execute your plan? 11:59:59 -!- MDvedh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:00:43 <|amethyst> Grunt: were you thinking multiple simulacra per corpse still? 12:01:18 <|amethyst> Grunt: because it seems like that would often fill los and either waste corpses or require recasts 12:01:58 <|amethyst> but if it's just one per corpse I'm not sure it's better enough than animate dead to warrant the extra school + spell level 12:02:41 yeah, it wouldn't sit as nicely in terms of the investment, probably even if you did reduce the level 12:02:49 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:50 I guess an L5 necro/ice spell could be ok 12:03:05 gammafunk: I'm doing 1) right now <_< 12:03:24 ok, I knew the hasted executioner would get summoned eventually 12:03:26 <|amethyst> how does 1) interact with rot? 12:03:28 |amethyst: we'll need to see how it ends up working one way or the other. 12:03:30 that's why you just assume 12:03:33 (re Simulacrum) 12:03:33 *what you 12:03:42 |amethyst: presumably the same way ghouls interact with rot right now? 12:03:51 <|amethyst> Grunt: except right now you get notified when something rots 12:04:00 <|amethyst> Grunt: that wouldn't happen if the something is on the ground 12:04:14 Clearly simulacrum should work on a single corpse on the ground but summon as many simulacri as it would have before 12:04:20 oh, twisted res is L5 necro 12:04:38 <|amethyst> Grunt: it seems like, if you're a rotted ghoul, you'd want to kill something then press 5 for a while 12:04:40 yeah, if there needs to be a move, I suppose L7 would be ok 12:04:56 <|amethyst> Grunt: since if you keep exploring you might not make it back to the item between it rotting and rotting away 12:05:23 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 12:05:52 making simulacrum into a level 7 necro/ice spell seems kind of crippling 12:06:09 Haunt is level 7 necro/summoning 12:06:25 And that doesn't need corpses to work 12:07:06 right, I wonder if haunt has any other drawbacks 12:07:12 oh yeah 12:07:21 also, haunt ghosts aren't quite as strong as simulacrula, I think 12:07:31 though it'd depend on the corpses 12:07:35 yeah 12:07:48 yeah, I think we'll go with the animate dead approach 12:07:56 i.e. one simulacra per corpse? 12:08:05 rip multiple hydra simulacra 12:08:19 it would be one per corpse regardless of the two approaches :p 12:08:22 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14.1-18-g0856e53 12:08:22 oh 12:08:32 this feels like a simulacrum nerf 12:09:08 <|amethyst> is simulacrum too powerful? 12:09:17 no? 12:09:19 the level adjustment can come afterwards depending on whether its seen to be too powerful 12:10:00 making it like animate dead won't clobber animate dead since simulacra requires such a higher investment 12:10:07 wait 12:10:22 would the simulacra still be temporary? 12:10:39 if only lightli were temporary 12:10:48 rip 12:11:03 <|amethyst> I mean, if simulacrum does need a nerf, that's fine 12:11:22 <|amethyst> but if not, I don't see why we're talking about making it less powerful and then maybe adjusting the level if it's too powerful 12:11:23 yeah I think animate-dead like behavior is the only change that needs to happen now 12:11:44 no I'm not suggesting making it less powerful 12:11:46 <|amethyst> one simulacrum per corpse is the nerf I was talking about 12:12:15 ok, maybe I'm confused, but |amethyst what are you proposing we do with simulacra? 12:12:24 yes it's one per corpse, but you make N corpses in los 12:12:29 er simulacra 12:12:31 all at once 12:12:37 <|amethyst> gammafunk: my thought would be make it like animate dead, and it gives you multiple simulacrum based on corpse size 12:12:48 that would be pretty insane 12:12:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: currently you can get the same effect for one corpse plus chopping 12:13:10 and the chunks are portable while the corpses aren't 12:13:13 <|amethyst> s/multiple simulacrum/multiple simulacra/ 12:13:19 -!- Zooty has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:13:22 yeah, chunk portability is a big part of simulacrula's advantages 12:13:24 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I don't understand 12:13:47 <|amethyst> gammafunk: if you think it's not currently overpowered, how would giving you the same number of simulacrum as currently be insane? 12:14:04 <|amethyst> err 12:14:08 |amethyst: giving the same number, all at once, and near enemies instead of centered around you 12:14:09 <|amethyst> s/simulacrum/simulacra/ 12:14:14 if you have a bunch of dead corpses 12:14:22 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that's why I said like animate skeleton 12:14:22 currently you have to butcher each and pick them up 12:14:27 and then wield and then cast 12:14:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: and it already gave you multiples at once 12:14:32 |amethyst: you said like animated dead 12:14:33 that's a lot of turns 12:14:37 which is probably why there was confusion 12:14:40 <|amethyst> oh 12:14:40 <|amethyst> sorry 12:14:46 <|amethyst> Yeah, I meant like animate skel 12:14:50 if you make that happen all in one turn effectively 12:15:00 right, that would be ok 12:15:14 I suppose that's pretty natural in that it's similar to the current simulacra 12:15:16 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:15:22 it would still be a small nerf, probably 12:15:25 but not the end of the world 12:15:28 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 12:15:40 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: but balanced somewhat by the turn thing that gammafunk mentioned 12:15:40 small nerf since you can't bring the chunks with you to another level 12:15:40 no more clearing spider:5 with lerny simulacrula.......... 12:15:51 the animate dead behaviour would be very useful of course 12:15:54 nah, you still can 12:15:55 |amethyst: somewhat, yes, I agree. a small nerf overall 12:16:03 just drag the lernean hydra to spider:5 and kill him there 12:16:18 if you can survive kiting lerny to spider:5, you don't need lerny simulacrula for spider:5 12:16:32 s/kiting/dragging 12:16:48 <|amethyst> how about making the "one simulacrum per corpse" thing instead be a different spell 12:17:09 <|amethyst> and fire-themed instead of ice: Inflame Dead 12:17:16 heh 12:17:16 The Return of Flaming Corpses 12:17:19 I like this 12:17:24 A lot 12:17:32 Z a flaming stone giant corpse 12:17:32 now that sticky flame no longer destroys items, their time has come! 12:17:41 Z a flaming frost giant corpse 12:17:50 hah 12:17:58 yeah I'm just thinking about what would be more useful; both spells would be useful 12:17:58 'flaming fire giant' might be funnier, actually 12:17:58 Z a flaming ice dragon corpse 12:17:59 hm 12:18:04 but the ani skel approach is the most similar 12:18:11 so we should probably start there 12:18:15 yeah, I'd agree with that 12:18:16 minimal change 12:18:28 idea for Gh 12:18:33 <|amethyst> an air-themed necromancy spell that turns skeletons into golems 12:18:44 Inflate Dead? 12:18:46 but it's not necromancy 12:18:51 it's half-necromancy 12:18:55 <|amethyst> Air is for lightning you see 12:19:03 I prefer Inflate Dead :b 12:19:07 I missed it - is there any consensus on what's going on with sublimate blood? my feeling is that it can actually just lose the chunk-transmutation effect entirely while still being strong, but I'm not set on it 12:19:31 I think subliming from corpses sounds nice 12:19:35 plan is to have it work on corpses you're standing on I think 12:19:38 I would probably use that 12:19:42 same 12:19:47 It's worth trying the standing-on-corpse effect, I think. 12:19:57 <|amethyst> Grunt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoke_enema#Medical_opinion 12:20:01 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:03 there's much less tedium involved 12:20:09 compared to making and wielding chunks 12:20:19 so it solves that problem 12:20:31 it might be a little too powerful though 12:20:36 well 12:20:44 I guess it's just a case of tweaking the mp you get 12:20:47 you'd only get one effect, instead of potentially half a dozen per corpse 12:20:52 right but 12:20:52 or more 12:20:55 that one effect 12:20:59 probably won't give you 3mp 12:21:07 since that'd be kind of silly 12:21:16 mmmm. 12:21:39 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1219-g8d0a50c (34) 12:21:44 therein lies the problem; it's not quite as comparable to other forms of channel 12:21:45 <|amethyst> other questions about true chunkless 12:21:50 it becomes a bit like cboe 12:21:51 <|amethyst> what happens to disintegration? 12:21:57 <|amethyst> (and IOOD) 12:22:07 and inner flame 12:22:18 <|amethyst> I guess it could be just a blood explosion 12:22:26 <|amethyst> Jory everywhere! 12:22:32 we could make guts floor decorations 12:22:35 huge guts 12:22:42 <|amethyst> the animated flying chunks were kind of cool though 12:23:00 <|amethyst> (or am I misremembering and they're not actually animated?) 12:23:08 clearly they might explode into sultana-shaped meat 12:23:17 wait that doesn't make any sense 12:23:38 -!- Morik_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:23:57 yeah we were talking about this yesterday. guts (or 'chunks'?) floor decorations seem reasonable, if we really are getting rid of chunks altogether 12:24:05 blood explosion just isn't quite the same 12:24:13 it could also be done through animation 12:24:21 as in we add blood animations I guess 12:24:32 <|amethyst> A rock wall, spattered with brains. 12:24:34 I guess that's kidn of hard with e.g. inner flame 12:24:40 what happens if you would have gotten a food drop though 12:24:51 you still get a food drop 12:24:54 oh 12:25:01 problem solved 12:25:04 <|amethyst> scatter beef jerky everywhere! 12:25:16 well you could argue that the explosion 12:25:19 <|amethyst> A rock wall, spattered with beef jerky. 12:25:27 would in fact turn the corpse into jerky 12:25:51 it wouldn't be a very good argument, but you could make that argument 12:25:59 who know how dungeon jerky is actually made? 12:26:03 I know I don't? 12:26:07 s/?/./ 12:26:08 <|amethyst> gammafunk: and somehow turns it into cow meat 12:26:10 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:16 <|amethyst> possibly minotaur meat 12:26:17 MAGIC! 12:26:24 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 12:26:34 <|amethyst> That will be one sad thing about losing simulacrum 12:26:38 <|amethyst> no more mad cows 12:26:47 death bulls 12:26:48 <|amethyst> s/simulacrum/simulacrum on inventory/ 12:27:25 <|amethyst> I guess you could let it work on food on the ground? 12:27:29 simulacra could work on your jerky? 12:27:46 the problem with disintegrate making jerky is it'd be ~10x more nutrition than normal jerky drop rates 12:27:53 ood supremacy, clearly 12:28:11 gammafunk: if we're removing chunks, I'd really rather not return to the old 'wield an item to simulac it' 12:28:15 since that was dumb and clunky 12:28:24 I guess it could have 'select a thing from your inv'? 12:28:25 congratulations 12:28:36 you managed to present two serious arguments against two jokes 12:28:38 <|amethyst> also, sublimation of blood (potions) 12:28:39 :( 12:28:42 :( :( :( 12:28:44 rude 12:29:14 oh yeah 12:29:21 well we'd just remove that 12:29:30 sublimatin of blood (potions) 12:29:39 maybe rename it to sublimation of flesh? 12:29:50 hardcore 12:30:07 sounds like a good name for a heavy metal album 12:30:35 crawl needs a heavy metal branch 12:30:37 but then again the necromancy school is very goth 12:30:44 blade I guess 12:30:49 ... 12:30:49 too bad it's the worst branch 12:30:55 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was thinking 80s gothic rock, like Sisters of Mercy or Bauhaus 12:31:04 thankfully also the smallest 12:31:15 |amethyst: it suggests something for the release name, at least 12:31:29 that would be... a very good release name, actually 12:31:32 This Stationary Flesh 12:32:20 Rigid Flesh? I'm just grasping at straws here 12:32:40 <|amethyst> "Sublimation of Flesh" is fine I think :) 12:32:53 03Grunt02 07[chunkless] * 0.15-a0-1218-g7a79afe: Let ghouls eat corpses off the ground. 10(6 minutes ago, 9 files, 85+ 49-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7a79afed2d0d 12:32:55 <|amethyst> chunks all evaporated 12:33:40 <|amethyst> though remember, we also have at least two new gods 12:34:05 Grunt: I like the commented out assert 12:34:11 well, you could stretch it to apply to both of them 12:34:13 gammafunk: <_< 12:34:34 gozag has an obvious fit 12:35:15 food1 and food2 are already good variable names 12:35:53 The Destruction of Flesh 12:35:56 fr: food2.cc 12:36:36 well maybe I have enough time to change simulacra before grunt finishes chunk removal 12:37:10 hurry!!!! 12:37:18 oh I guess not since he'd have to change that to remove chunks 12:37:22 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:38:01 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1220-g697660a: Remove commented-out code 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=697660a17ead 12:38:36 just gonna follow grunt around deleting all the code he comments out 12:38:42 little brush & dustpan 12:38:47 * Grunt comments out PleasingFungus. 12:38:53 rip 12:39:18 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:22 <|amethyst> solution: use #ifdefs instead of comments :) 12:39:30 Very Incorrect 12:41:18 hrm, so simulacra will leave a skeleton? 12:41:29 I guess it should 12:41:44 yep 12:41:53 03Grunt02 07[chunkless] * 0.15-a0-1219-g437dc98: Allow Sublimation of Blood to affect corpses on the ground. 10(69 seconds ago, 1 file, 44+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=437dc98bd6d4 12:42:49 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:04 Grunt: have you started in simulacra as well? 12:43:07 gammafunk: nope 12:43:09 s/in/on/ 12:43:20 well I can do that unless you'd really like to 12:43:25 gammafunk: go ahead :) 12:43:43 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:58 kind of getting excited about this chunkless thing. I think it might actually work? 12:44:38 still a bit of a pity to lose the chunk dynamics, but the interface will be so much nicer... we can always add more complexity elsewhere. 12:45:38 don't think there was ever really a question if it would work, although I suppose there may be a lot of balancing ahead 12:46:06 really? this is a huge change to be absolutely certain that it'd work 12:46:13 to some pretty core mechanics 12:47:59 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: "whether it will work" is not the same as "how well" :) 12:48:20 ah, I see 12:48:25 it doesn't really change any core mechanics in my mind 12:49:12 I mean I guess butchery is a core mechanic, but I think more in terms of e.g. spell hunger, xp, and general sort of "cost/benefit" things 12:49:25 <|amethyst> gammafunk: time-limited food that comes from killing monsters is IMO a pretty big thing 12:49:45 sure seems to me like some monsters move while sleeping 12:49:55 are there any mecanisms for tracking nutrition info in character dumps? 12:49:55 <|amethyst> johlstei: are they confused? 12:49:58 that's maybe the only issue that's at the core of things 12:50:02 yeah I think so 12:50:09 <|amethyst> ??sleepwalking 12:50:09 sleepwalking[1/3]: What confused sleeping monsters do. By some considered to be not a bug. 12:50:12 <|amethyst> ??sleepwalking[2] 12:50:13 sleepwalking[2/3]: Awesome! 12:50:14 <|amethyst> ??sleepwalking[3] 12:50:14 sleepwalking[3/3]: Here: A ball lightning (bewildered and confused, sleepwalking, mindless) 12:50:16 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:18 and to be honest having temporary food vs. not having it doesn't seem that big a deal 12:50:20 haha okay 12:50:22 cool 12:50:24 since you can just limit how much food you give 12:50:42 it might be useful to collect the following by default: total nutrition consumed over the game, breakdown of what nurtition was spent on (spells, abilities, time, etc), rations found, rations consumed 12:50:52 oh yeah that would be great 12:50:54 it can be easier to balance stuff once you have an idea of that 12:51:08 nutrition_dump 12:51:16 I guess that'd just go in the action table maybe 12:51:19 johlstei: some monsters do move while sleeping, even while not confused - those lilypad thorn enemies come to mind 12:51:31 rip? 12:51:36 <|amethyst> morge files are such a pain to parse 12:51:41 nah it was a confused elephant 12:51:43 <|amethyst> s/ge/gue/ 12:51:45 <|amethyst> and collect 12:51:46 and I've seen it with other things 12:51:48 that's pretty adorable tbh 12:51:50 but yeah thats cool 12:52:05 <|amethyst> it would be nice if at least the basic info were also in the logfile (not milestones probably) 12:52:18 I guess that'd just go in the action table maybe 12:52:20 <|amethyst> for sequell querying 12:52:20 yeah 12:52:31 ps PleasingFungus you have infinite patience in the SA thread 12:52:43 |amethyst: I made an irrsi script to download logs based on any lg/lm query (with a delay between queries), and I managed to find two games that had encountered my depths vault 12:52:45 most devs who post in that thread are pretty patient in general 12:52:51 I find it entertaining to post about design 12:52:56 and when I don't, I start skimming 12:52:59 i can think of like 6 crawl devs who have posted there over the years 12:53:08 but it'd be nice if we had that "dev logfile" with the vault dumps 12:53:11 just keep dpeg away from it 12:53:15 <|amethyst> haha 12:53:16 yeah lol 12:53:17 since a large fraction of morgues don't have vault dumps 12:53:18 <|amethyst> I was going to say 12:53:31 there are a lot of good and legitimate questions being asked in there - I think there are reasonable concerns about the tradeoffs involved in item destruction, for example 12:53:36 there are also a lot of really bad questions 12:53:39 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:53:46 but what can you do 12:54:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:54:25 i still prefer crawl with item destruction than without, but w/e 12:54:31 i've made the arguements in the past already 12:55:22 I always felt that item destruction was very secondary to the inventory problem, although it was clear from that TrWr I played on weightless that something would have to change about item dest 12:55:27 I am willing to give no-item-destruction crawl a shot (this is the shot) 12:55:31 it lost huge numbers of potions/scroll 12:55:46 gammafunk: I don't see that as being a problem with item destruction, tbh 12:55:48 is it ok that you can just stack every wiz and int item you find and cast dmsl at abysmal success chance? it has the same spellpower as rmsl after all 12:55:50 I see that as being a problem with our play 12:55:52 *you 12:55:55 *your 12:55:57 fuck 12:55:59 I give up 12:56:00 well no because 12:56:12 what am I supposed to do, juggle items a ton 12:56:29 you are supposed to not carry around 20 curing, yes 12:56:40 it's really not all that interesting though 12:56:47 "drop a stack of these, come back" 12:56:55 I think temporary denial could be better 12:57:10 but forcing backtracking and such is just not very good 12:57:14 well, the big advantage of temporary denial, as I see it 12:57:17 is that it hasn't been implemented yet 12:57:21 so there are no flaws :) 12:57:22 other forms of item denial could be better 12:57:50 well the old system was not good, and that wasn't based on my play; I just didn't care to do that tedious stuff 12:57:51 other forms of item denial could be better, but I have yet to see any evidence of it. except for shamblers 12:57:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:57:56 which was kind of evidence for the other side 12:58:15 my feeling about the old system was that the problem was more with autopickup than with item destruction 12:58:27 since autopickup makes it very easy to end up with 20 !cure or w/e 12:58:39 that's not the problem at all 12:58:40 even though that's not useful or good 12:58:48 soo... is it better to pick up everything manually? 12:58:49 the problem is having to run around to all these (or even one big) stashes 12:58:57 in order to play optimally 12:58:58 and constantly ctrl+f to make sure you haven't missed anything? 12:59:29 Kvaak: my argument is that you don't have to pick everything up in the first place 12:59:42 you're missing the point; you'll need them eventually with item dest 12:59:48 because things get destroyed 12:59:52 yes, but not urgently 12:59:57 so you'll have to back track to those stacks 12:59:59 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:00:10 you can backtrack whenever you backtrack normally 13:00:16 when going between branches 13:00:25 that's not very workable 13:00:29 this was 13:00:31 literally how I played 13:00:35 and it worked fine 13:00:36 so ????? 13:00:44 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:52 I'm supposed to base my item availability 13:01:01 on my branch travel path? 13:01:07 no? 13:01:10 it's just like 13:01:13 okay, I'm done with this branch 13:01:18 as in oh I need to go to depths now, too bad I won't have items 13:01:24 go out, handle stash shit, go to the next branch 13:01:30 it's player time, not in-game time 13:01:46 it's just not very interesting; it's added tedium 13:02:29 I disagree 13:02:39 if items were destroyed in some more specific and occasional way, or if good temporary item denial existed 13:02:44 I'd be ok with it 13:03:05 but making me travel to stashes solely because of items getting lost is just not fun 13:03:20 I very rarely had to do that 13:03:28 so I guess I'm not seeing the problem you're describing 13:03:56 the idea of there being specific monsters that destroy items, as opposed to it being a general property of elemental attacks, was something I saw suggested. it's not obviously a terrible idea 13:03:58 you certainly have to travel to stashes with some frequency if you have lots of items getting destroyed 13:04:06 here's the thing 13:04:09 if you travel relatively light 13:04:21 then you'll generally end up finding new consumables about the same rate as they get destroyed 13:04:26 this was my experience in play 13:04:37 a somewhat higher rate, actually, including consumption 13:05:21 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:22 the fact that item destruction scaled directly with the number of items you carried meant that the more you carried (because you were afraid of item destruction), the more you'd lose 13:05:27 hi dpeg! 13:05:33 Hi there! Back. 13:05:50 that's a good illustration of how it's a pretty silly system 13:06:04 PleasingFungus: You have so much energy to preach to the unwashed masses at SA. I am impressed. (I tried something similar on the tavern but gave up recently.) 13:06:05 "here, fix it by doinng some inventory juggling, then it won't matter" 13:06:55 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:07:17 I'd kind of rather have outright denial, since I don't have to think in terms of manipulating my inventory, but rather manipulating my fight with the enemy 13:07:27 What people really miss about the item destruction discussion: it *is* really meaningful, but just in a very limited set of cases (portal vaults, Abyss). These do not outweigh the interface cost we imposed all the time. 13:07:38 dpeg: I kind of ran out of energy near the end, but thankfully the argument ended a few pages after 13:07:39 I fight Flame Dude, I'm not going to get to use scrolls 13:07:45 now they're talking about triple swords, which is much funnier 13:07:46 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:03 gammafunk: yes, I think reasonable denial is possible. If nobody beats me to it, I will try to make a simple model for 0.16 (I think that 0.15 is full enough with rule changes :) 13:08:21 dpeg: yeah, I'm not at all against *good* item denial, so I look forward to it 13:09:08 dpeg: and are we really changing anything? I haven noticed any big changes >_> 13:09:14 hehe :) 13:09:30 gammafunk: sorry to be so blunt about your corpse drop proposal, I was typing under extreme circumstances. 13:09:59 well no, it's always good to get push back I feel 13:10:06 I appreciate you making me do that :) 13:10:10 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:10:42 I think there are still some potential issues with that approach, but we're moving ahead with other changes 13:10:43 Also realised quite late the (meat) permafood as corpse drops can be an easier way to replicate the 0.14 food situation than what I had in mind (permafood-only with modified generation). I still have some hope for a univeral food clock, but that's definitely 0.16 (or later stuff), so I just won't bring it up on c-r-d :) 13:11:21 dpeg: yes, although I realized that lair proper has actually less food abundance with my change now 13:11:38 so having non-intelligent enemies drop something might ahve to be a thing, although we have to just see I guess 13:11:48 I was hoping for weightless, chunkless, mon-pickup. Seems like weightless is good to stay, mon-pickup will come, and we're testing and discussing chunkless? 13:11:56 !seen dpeg 13:11:56 I last saw dpeg at Sun Jun 1 18:11:48 2014 UTC (8s ago) saying 'I was hoping for weightless, chunkless, mon-pickup. Seems like weightless is good to stay, mon-pickup will come, and we're testing and discussing chunkless? ' on ##crawl-dev. 13:12:03 !seen Grunt 13:12:03 I last saw Grunt at Sun Jun 1 18:11:56 2014 UTC (7s ago) saying '!seen dpeg' on ##crawl-dev. 13:12:07 !seen gammafunk 13:12:07 I last saw gammafunk at Sun Jun 1 18:12:03 2014 UTC (4s ago) saying '!seen Grunt' on ##crawl-dev. 13:12:08 !seen PleasingFungus 13:12:09 Sorry PleasingFungus, that person is dead. 13:12:11 :( 13:12:12 lol 13:12:16 rip 13:12:19 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:25 Grunt: Hello! 13:12:56 dpeg: yeah, that seems to be the current state 13:13:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:13:32 Cool! I'll do what I can do make chunkless good (and hence part of 0.15.) 13:13:44 a noble goal 13:14:13 I forget - have there been any post-item-destruction-removal consumable-gen rebalances, yet? 13:14:18 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:14:45 not to my knowledge 13:14:46 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 13:14:54 probably there should be 13:15:10 I'm trying to think what I had a lot of 13:15:11 PleasingFungus: I am not aware of any, and I don't think we *have* to do something quickly. Players could basically work around item destruction, so it's not like we have to reduce all item consumable generation by 20% or so. 13:16:42 I don't know about doing something 'quickly', but it's certainly something that we should keep an eye on. item destruction certainly wasn't neglible - even with decent play & traveling light, as I said earlier, I generally felt like I lost more consumables to item destruction than actual use. It's something that will need tweaks... 13:17:30 and tbh I was thinking of more like 40-50% decreases, though it'd be heavily biased by type and location - not much item destruction in lair, for example, and strategic items (?ew, !cmut, etc) were very rarely affected 13:19:11 PleasingFungus: could just take out one or two levels from somewhere, and claim it's "item destruction compensation". 13:19:17 haha 13:19:23 clearly take out blade 13:19:28 not because of item destruction, just because it's blade 13:19:48 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:10 PleasingFungus: then you cannot apply the item destruction reasoning, though :) 13:20:19 probably consumables can spawn in blade 13:20:20 maybe 13:20:26 they can't actually 13:20:28 only weapons 13:20:34 jory can spawn in blade, right? and he can drop a potion of blood? that's a consumable 13:20:47 just give me this. one small thing! 13:20:59 I guess? 13:21:03 learn add faq 13:21:16 If you want to make fire relevant to scrolls, for instance, you could make sticky flame prevent reading them 13:21:17 -!- Krymise has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:21:25 "You'd set your scroll on fire if you tried!" 13:21:42 PleasingFungus screams: "No! No!". PleasingFungus explodes in a cloud of beef jerky. 13:22:09 yeah sticky flame/scroll denial is an obvious idea 13:22:15 dtsund: yes, exactly. I will suggest something like this for 0.16 unless beaten to it by overambitious devs 13:22:18 it is important that players hate sticky flame 13:22:24 imho 13:22:51 gammafunk: 1learn add pleasingfungus 13:23:23 somebody suggested having item destruction only for specific things 13:23:37 make it Slick Flame, the player slips as they move and sometimes goes slipping many tiles in the direction they move? 13:23:39 as opposed to "on every fire or ice attack" 13:24:21 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:46 ontoclasm: like me, about twenty minutes ago!!!!!!!!! 13:24:48 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:55 but admittedly I'm probably thinking of the same guy as you are 13:25:01 probably 13:25:25 idk. the problem with temporary item denial is it's just not very relevant most of the time 13:25:32 (whereas item destruction was always relevant) 13:25:40 maybe make flash freeze stop potion use? 13:25:43 c.f., again, plague shamblers 13:25:50 That would be relevant with Antaeus I guess 13:26:08 oh, that might actually be nice, now that people will bring potions into coc 13:26:13 I don't oppose that 13:26:31 PleasingFungus: Technically paralysis also serves as temporary item denial 13:26:42 that is not really why paralysis is bad 13:26:50 well, I mean, it doesn't help :p 13:28:04 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:05 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:41 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:42 -!- rast- is now known as rast 13:29:11 fr implement Don't Act and Don't Move 13:29:38 There is a whole lot that can be said about item denial, but I have a wiki page for that. (If you add to it, that's always appreciated.) 13:34:59 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:31 I would've never thought that item destruction would cause such an outcry :O 13:35:52 it's a pretty huge change that massively affects threats 13:36:07 sticky flame went from a big deal to almost irrelevant, for example 13:36:55 it will be strange for a while to get used to the idea that ice caves, mottled dragons, ice beasts, red and blue ugly things, etc won't kill your scrolls and potions. 13:37:24 definitely nice from the perspective that you won't have to drop items on the ground anymore. that's a great change 13:37:34 sure, I am just not used to players complaining so much about a buff :) 13:38:15 people are funny 13:38:22 yea. I think that if you haven't thought as deep on some of these topics, you don't immediately recognize the interface benefit 13:38:33 ie no fiddly item micromanagement 13:38:38 I think the biggest threats were cloud sources and elemental beams, and then the af_* sources when they affected items; sticky flame was below those because of its rarity 13:38:42 idk. I've argued both sides of the item destruction thing. I don't feel like it's unambiguously good or bad 13:38:53 where is this outcry coming from? 13:39:03 simmarine: only SA, from what I see 13:39:05 i heard somethingawful had some people who were sad about item destruction going 13:39:11 but like???? thats just so weird 13:39:12 it's very odd, yeah. they aren't thread regulars 13:39:13 the immediate fear is that you will miss out on what used to feel like tense situations 13:39:25 they popped out of the woodwork when item destruction was removed 13:39:29 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:39:34 but normally they don't post in that thread at all (though I have seen them in other forums) 13:39:35 -!- strat_ has quit [Client Quit] 13:39:51 PleasingFungus: just on page 89 -- I see you're against the id game. I've got some ideas that I think can be very interesting in that regard (no 0.15 topics, of course). 13:39:57 gammafunk: I mentioned sticky flame since it's not really dangerous for damage, just for the item destruction effect 13:40:01 yea. there's a side of me that is sad it's going. despite me being really sad when I lose a lot of my scrolls to sticky flame 13:40:25 yeah, it's not very threatening in its current state, and is not much different than just being in a flame cloud 13:40:38 so either it needs some other form of item denial or its days are probably numbered 13:40:39 elemental clouds/beams are much more likely to be actually damage 13:40:41 *damaging 13:40:52 I'm definitely in support of clever ways to incorporate more item denial 13:40:53 I think it'd be fine to actually buff sticky flame damage 13:41:00 Also I wonder what they are thinking: we (devs) all know the advantages of item destruction and mourn their loss and think of ways to bring them back (without the obvious drawbacks). 13:41:05 sticky flame could do percentile damage 13:41:11 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:25 dpeg: I mean, my feeling is that the ID game is weak as it stands - mostly I was arguing in favor of the jewellery-autoID change. I'd love to see the ID game expanded in interesting ways 13:41:33 ash buffs :) 13:42:00 yeah, id game is pretty important in the early game but falls off in relevance very fast 13:42:03 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:22 honestly, the ID game only being relevant early on might be fine 13:42:28 since so many games end in the early game 13:42:40 but the problem is that even the early-game ID mechanics have been steadily eroded at 13:42:45 what was wrong with Retch as a potion denial effect? 13:42:47 <|amethyst> dpeg: http://www.reddit.com/r/roguelikes/comments/2712tx/looking_for_a_new_but_not_niche_roguelike_again/ has a pretty well-articulated complaint about Crawl, though I don't think it's necessarily anything new 13:42:48 consumable identification is a huge part of the early game and removing that would make it pretty boring imo 13:42:49 for good reasons! but they're looking kinda vestigial right now 13:42:51 %git :/retch 13:42:51 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-1185-g7ad26a9: New mutation: Forlorn 10(2 days ago, 7 files, 26+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ad26a9524e2 13:42:54 PleasingFungus: I agree the id game isn't really good right now. I would argue it's better than no id-game even in 0.14 (because it does provide choices in the very early game). I have been thinking about identification for a bit in the last few weeks and will put my findings on the web page some day (similar to denial, this is mid-term stuff from my p.o.v.) 13:43:14 %git edb40d360931 13:43:14 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-822-gedb40d3: Remove plague shamblers. 10(3 weeks ago, 43 files, 34+ 156-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edb40d360931 13:43:29 yeah I think even if the current system seems too minimal, removing it would def. be bad 13:43:30 "The retching attack gave a rare special case that very rarely mattered..." 13:43:42 well, just cutting down the number of id scrolls by a lot 13:43:42 johnstein: ^ 13:43:46 <|amethyst> dpeg: executive summary: not enough exploration and adventure 13:43:49 would make the id game a lot more interesting 13:44:02 id has already been cut down 13:44:05 currently it's too easy to just opt out of it, since you have a dozen id scrolls by d:5 13:44:13 idk. I generally find myself short of ?id these days 13:44:17 then again, I rarely quaff-id 13:44:24 so that's a playstyle choice 13:44:25 ontoclasm: yes, you can often identify all consumables with scrolls. 13:44:26 i don't quaff id either 13:44:33 yea. but that's with respect to plague shambler specifically? or a general criticism of potion denial that would apply to all potion denial? 13:44:49 johnstein: it's a criticism of the one place that potion denial has been implemented 13:44:55 |amethyst: interesting, will read later. Now reading a children's book instead. Back in a bit. 13:44:55 Recently we made id never id more than one item 13:44:56 obviously, it's possible that potion denial could be more relevant elsewhere 13:44:58 so that helped a lot 13:45:05 (and I do like the idea of sticking it on flash freeze) 13:45:22 another thing would be to add bad scrolls 13:45:25 but it does seem relevant, when talking about temp consumable denial, to reference the one place that has actually been implemented 13:45:35 so that it's not safe to read-id everything all the time 13:45:36 PleasingFungus: Ty. basically, retch was removed because the one thing that used it was removed. 13:45:41 ontoclasm: curse weapon! old-immolation! 13:45:42 I've kind of mentioned this elsewhere but I think the only way to make the ID mini-game more relevant is to make ID scrolls not fully ID items. 13:45:43 :P 13:45:48 well 13:45:54 bad scrolls that are actually bad 13:46:03 ontoclasm: yeah, it's kind of nice to save most of that for potions 13:46:09 johnstein: no 13:46:13 instead doing someting "this potion is either Haste OR Degeneration" 13:46:17 retch was removed because it was bad and irrelevant 13:46:45 and then the monster that used it was removed because wheals thought it was bad (though I still think it was a cool monster, just not in crypts) 13:47:48 -!- Dawor has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:06 (also it needed more damage, but I think that about a lot of monsters) 13:48:36 yes, more damage for everything 13:48:43 maybe not *everything*. 13:48:57 sigmund might do about enough damage. :p 13:49:17 Sigmund comes into view. He is wielding the +13,+13 Scythe of Curses {drain, Curse}. 13:49:48 Death has come for you... 13:50:44 can't believe someone removed that really goofy sigmund line 13:50:49 %git :/sigmund 13:50:51 Could not find commit :/sigmund (git returned 128) 13:51:07 which one 13:51:14 let me find it 13:51:41 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:52:06 -In the wake of @the_monster@'s scythe you hear the echo of oblivion. 13:52:12 !send Kvaak death 13:52:13 Sending death to Kvaak. 13:52:24 PleasingFungus: FR: the scythe of Oblivion 13:52:30 (small chance of instant death) 13:52:38 quite strong........ 13:52:45 (doesn't work against uniques) 13:52:52 what about the player? 13:52:56 Good question! >_> 13:53:42 The Scythe of Woe 13:54:27 fr: the helm, cloak, gloves, boots, and armour of Woe 14:01:00 cloak of cloaking. boots of booting. gloves of... degloving? D: 14:01:07 fr boots of booting 14:03:29 * PleasingFungus boots Grunt! 14:03:39 /kick PleasingFungus Grunt boots PleasingFungus! 14:03:40 <_< 14:03:46 >_> 14:08:14 -!- Lollipop_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:38 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:03 -!- KKirk has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:34 just back... this SA thread is really off their knockers ("Crawl moved from vision-based to design-by-committee ==> mechanical sanitization [...] ripping out anything that might be offensive, or awkward or weird or scary [...]) 14:22:21 yeah there are a couple of posters there who have 14:22:22 interesting ideas 14:22:27 about how crawl dev works 14:22:39 -!- Redz has left ##crawl-dev 14:23:38 !send dpeg away 14:23:39 Sending away to dpeg. 14:23:40 >_> 14:23:45 ? 14:23:52 ...wait, crawl dev works? 14:23:54 <_< 14:24:01 sometimes! 14:27:01 Grunt: you should be admin on Mantis now 14:27:30 Logged in as: sgrunt (administrator0 14:27:33 s/0/)/ 14:27:54 * geekosaur contemplates a joke monster dev-il 14:28:44 orb run spawn, clearly 14:28:56 I wonder if anyone noticed my iron devil buffs 14:29:02 iron dev-il (104) | Spd: 12 | HD: 100 | HP: 498-606 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Dam: 14, 14 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(800), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: fire storm (8d75), glaciate (42d1), tornado, shatter / fire storm (8d76), glaciate (42d1), tornado, shatter | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:29:02 %??iron devil name:iron_dev-il n_rpl n_des hd:100 spells:fire_storm;glaciate;tornado;shatter perm_ench:haste perm_ench:swift 14:29:13 (or dev-ill) 14:29:14 seems a bit weak 14:29:20 :p 14:29:48 -!- buddhastalin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:31:04 Yeah it doesn't have haste. 14:31:33 Oh, hmm, perm_ench:haste. 14:33:48 thats almost the same thing as setting its speed to 15 14:33:57 (which is the better way to do that) 14:34:12 pfft 14:34:16 hm 14:34:17 iron devil (104) | Spd: 8 | HD: 8 | HP: 28-59 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Dam: 14, 14 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 324 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:34:17 %??iron devil 14:34:19 i guess you still cant change speed in monster defs like that though 14:34:24 I thought someone made them speed 10 14:34:29 I did. 14:34:37 %git :/iron devils 14:34:38 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-1161-gb17653d: Edit a vault which could spawn early iron devils (Basil) 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 5+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b17653da550c 14:34:43 monster db has to be rebuilt separately 14:34:47 o 14:34:48 it's lagging a bit 14:34:51 rip 14:34:58 %git :HEAD^{iron devils}^1 14:34:58 Could not find commit :HEAD^{iron devils}^1 (git returned 128) 14:35:01 I hear one of the monster databases is outdate. 14:35:03 d 14:35:08 quicksilver devil 14:35:13 i guess those are lorocyprocas 14:35:28 or maybe not 14:35:30 heh --- the really amusing partof that is it was updated while sequell was b0rked 14:35:59 @??thorn hunter 14:35:59 thorn hunter (16f) | Spd: 12 (swim: 120%) | HD: 15 | HP: 80-118 | AC/EV: 9/9 | Dam: 27, 23 | 03plant, amphibious, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 2122 | Sp: v.thorns (3d18), w.brambles | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 14:36:19 (I think; saw a monster db rebuilt message from gretell) 14:36:37 evilmike: sixfirhies? 14:36:40 not really, I guess 14:36:51 lorocyproca (022) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 56-96 | AC/EV: 10/12 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 06magic(130), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1276 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:36:51 %??lorocyproca 14:36:55 May 28 22:11:06 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-1119-g9b3a599 14:37:02 I was thinking "antimagic melee" but what I had in mind was antimagic() 14:37:13 e.g. that function that strips magical enchantments and stuff 14:37:28 i dunno if it was ever refactored, it was pretty bad last time i looked at it though 14:38:45 oh, you mean dispelling 14:38:48 that could be a cool enemy 14:38:54 I think effects/ enchantments which give the player some sort of status (or remove statuses in the case of quicksilver) work better as ranged attacks because spellcasting and ranged characters can't avoid them. 14:39:11 or melee characters using attack wands. 14:39:24 is the assumption that spellcasting enemies can always avoid getting hit in melee? that doesn't seem quite right 14:39:38 especially if this is a quicksilver devil, which sounds like it should be, you know, fast 14:39:44 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:15 PleasingFungus: Did yo mean "spellcasting characters" rather than "spellcasting enemeis" 14:40:21 s/yo/you/ 14:40:45 I did, yes 14:40:46 oops 14:41:47 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42:00 That's probably true but it's still "This monster's special thing is significantly less relevant for many chacaters for no particular reason." However, being fast would negate that some. 14:42:52 I think it is okay to have melee monstesr 14:43:46 yeah you can't apply that logic of "it's relevant for some" systematically, since then we'd not have e.g. af_cold melee and such 14:44:29 here is how primary-caster/ranged chars work: you try to make most enemies irrelevant. if you fail, a variety of different exciting consequences ensue! 14:44:30 for some kind of "anti magic user" effect, you do have to think about that in particular 14:45:02 i wasnt really serious about dispelling melee btw 14:45:21 Oh, hmm. 14:45:22 i like it as quicksilver breath and stuff, though 14:45:35 yeah it is nice as a beam attack 14:45:48 I kind of liked the idea but I don't feel strongly about it either way 14:45:53 it'd be nice to have more dis enemies, basically 14:45:57 evilmike: I had code at some point to set monster speeds like that, as well as monster attacks. 14:46:02 smite-targetted dispel sounds just not fun 14:46:11 I never did anything with it because, well, I couldn't think of any valid uses for it :) 14:46:13 going in the other direction 14:46:56 bat speed:50 perm_ench:inner_flame 14:47:18 name:bat_out_of_hell n_rpl n_des 14:47:27 hp:1 14:47:48 spells:burst_of_hellfire 14:48:04 hm 14:48:07 moth of immolation 14:48:12 (inner flames everything in LOS) 14:48:19 unlikely to work in its favour 14:48:24 someone was talking about moth of immolation the other day 14:48:29 I was thinking it'd work more like wrathmoth 14:48:34 randomly inner-flaming enemies near it 14:48:39 sadly it'd probably be anti-melee :( 14:48:48 wait, near it? 14:48:51 evilmike: that's what'd make it so great, though! 14:49:09 enemies that are as likely to wreck their own side as yours are hilarious 14:49:14 ref also: orb spiders, boulder beetles 14:49:24 those ones at least can hurt you pretty badly 14:49:26 well, that's not really how those monsters are designed 14:49:37 i'm bothered by stuff like silent spectres in crypt though 14:49:44 but this is not a serious discussion, so I'll allow it 14:49:46 (they are fine in tartarus) 14:49:49 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:55 gammafunk: I'm curious - what do you mean? 14:50:26 evilmike: saw someone who got a crypt:4 doorvault including both an alich & a silent spectre. that was a dumb fight 14:51:31 orb spiders are designed around sending orbs of heug dmg to the player; hitting other monsters is a very secondary effect. a moth that immolates enemies close by that's not itself immune to the explosions is not the same kind of design 14:51:34 they can be pretty helpful in ending vaults if you are melee 14:51:38 it's really more like a spore enemy 14:51:53 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:52:34 (It explodes!) 14:52:44 I mean, it could be immune to the explosions. or rf+++. our hypothetical explosion moth. 14:52:52 Ashenzari warns you: "It explodes." 14:52:59 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:00 hah 14:53:06 moth of spores 14:53:12 it's a flying spore colony!! 14:53:12 moth of Fedhas 14:53:21 yeah, then in that case it's more reasonable 14:53:55 -!- FVG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:58 also it would clearly have to do the firestarter thing where you explode if you die 14:54:08 relevant for felids! 14:54:20 I have a patch for this somewhere! <_< 14:54:29 wait, what 14:54:34 -!- Strat_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:54:44 ah, the exploding felid patch 14:54:45 I think I'll remove Iron Trolls from the Depths now. I haven't seen anybody argue they work well there. 14:54:48 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:48 evilmike: yes! 14:55:09 evilmike: surely explosions meet your stamp of approval :) 14:55:19 reaverb: fine by me 14:55:21 hrm, I wonder where they do work well 14:55:25 vaults arguably 14:55:30 Dis was the argument. 14:55:31 Grunt: this one seems a bit niche 14:55:34 maybe vaults, probably dis, yes 14:55:40 Grunt: how does it work? you cast inner flame on yourself? 14:55:44 evilmike: yes 14:55:48 hahaha 14:55:53 (I'm not seriously suggesting adding this; it's way too niche.) 14:55:55 upcoming secret tech 14:55:58 nooo :( 14:56:06 (Hilarious, though.) 14:56:13 iron troll (10T) | Spd: 7 | HD: 16 | HP: 63-109 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Dam: 35, 25, 25 | 10doors, regen | Res: 06magic(106), 05fire, 02cold | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 775 | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 14:56:13 %??iron_troll 14:56:20 I will treasure it in my memory of hypotheticals 14:56:58 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:57:36 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 14:57:44 hai 14:57:47 !send bh greetings 14:57:47 Sending greetings to bh. 14:58:01 busy ##crawl-dev today 14:58:02 Grunt: I was thinking of adding another professional draconian, something in a support role 14:58:13 Grunt: you have an @ in front of your name 14:58:47 I'm pretty observant about these things 14:58:58 bh: do something about having too many of them first :) 14:59:07 bh: Draconian Support Technician? 14:59:23 !title charms 14:59:24 charms: Charmwright (0-7), Infuser (8-14), Anointer (15-20), Gracecrafter (21-25) 14:59:29 draconian gracecrafter 14:59:34 >_> 14:59:35 Grunt: get rid of Zealots or Callers 14:59:57 There was a suggestion to merge scorchers into annihilators, at least. 15:00:05 o_0 why do knights have *three* spell lists? 15:00:09 Zealots and callers could probably be merged. 15:00:12 bh: if it's a necromancy themed drac, it could get some form of miasma 15:00:13 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:14 bh: they used to have more! 15:00:19 -!- demiskeleton_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:32 since that's the only part of callers that really matters? or maybe they can make dragons 15:00:38 mottled draconian caller (07q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 72-103 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 05fire, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1374 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d6), sum.drakes | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:00:38 %??draconian_caller 15:00:42 gammafunk: a necro themed drac would be obnoxious, since other dracs corpse 15:00:44 Summon drakes can call dragons, too. 15:00:48 ??fedhas reasons 15:00:48 It's kind of a misleading name. 15:00:48 fedhas reasons[1/4]: it's like plant zin 15:00:54 yeah, thought so 15:00:58 mottled draconian knight (10q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 103-122 | AC/EV: 12/12 | Dam: 27 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 05fire, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1654 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d6), b.cold (3d25), b.draining (3d23), invisibility, animate dead, throw icicle (3d25) / sticky flame splash (3d6), b.cold (3d25), b.lightning (3d21), vampiric draining, agony, throw icicle (3d25) / sticky flame splash (3d6), b.cold (3d25), throw icicle (3d25), haste, simulacrum, armour | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:00:58 %??draconian knight 15:00:58 ??fedhas reasons[2 15:00:58 fedhas reasons[2/4]: Wandering mushrooms are by far the most powerful *..... god ability in the game. 15:01:02 in that case it's not just a spell of "death drakes" 15:01:18 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:01:22 rip 15:01:22 also wind drakes! 15:01:22 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 15:01:27 Ha, guess what? 15:01:38 oh right wind drakes 15:01:49 * PleasingFungus blows gammafunk across the level! 15:01:59 -!- stanzwecha is now known as stanzill 15:01:59 I'm too heug 15:02:09 ... 15:02:20 no comment 15:02:26 i think draconian callers are fine 15:02:34 death drakes are the most horrible thing in the world 15:02:38 which is why they are cool 15:02:58 evilmike: FYI, my best CeHu died thanks to death drakes and two Zot evilmike_ambushes. 15:03:01 Just thought you should know. 15:03:06 lol 15:03:07 (I still haven't forgiven you for that. >_>) 15:03:17 !hs . cehu 15:03:18 7. SGrunt the Merry Centaur (L24 CeHu of Okawaru), engulfed by a death drake's foul pestilence (summoned by a purple draconian caller) on Zot:3 on 2012-08-23 04:21:02, with 480885 points after 89300 turns and 5:27:38. 15:03:26 Your best CeHu? You had several?! 15:03:32 saw a good evilmike in the crawl thread a few days ago 15:03:43 kryft: CeHu was one of the classes I played fairly early in my Crawl career :b 15:03:58 Grunt: Ah 15:04:06 like HuAr? 15:04:08 !send grunt a crawl resume 15:04:08 Sending a crawl resume to grunt. 15:04:09 Grunt: I played one and it almost made me want to quit crawl forever :) 15:04:28 HuAr was one of the last things I did to get greatplayer! 15:04:30 http://i.imgur.com/2NCPYh2.png "RE: Fuck you stair vaults" 15:04:38 hu isn't terrible anymore 15:04:38 (if not *the* last? I think I did one more race after that?) 15:04:42 now that ammo enchantment isn't a thing 15:04:46 It turns out iron trolls don't naturally spawn in the abyss. and there's only like 4 vaults which can place them there. 15:04:48 good stairs 15:04:50 err, Dis. 15:04:54 s/abyss/Dis/ 15:05:06 Heh, that's a good stair vault. 15:05:06 My last race was sludge elf, I think (rip) 15:05:08 yeah, we have iron dragons for dis 15:05:09 anyhow 15:05:13 and those are better 15:05:13 reaverb: yeah but arent the ending vaults? 15:05:26 i'm thinking of one that starts with a big iron troll pack 15:05:56 i just cant think of any other monster there that fills that melee role without also having a ranged attack 15:06:01 evilmike: A couple of them I think... It's kind of hard to tell becuase the end vault is heavily subvaulted. 15:06:01 i thought they were more common though 15:06:52 the end vaults are 80% of hell branches anyway. 15:07:35 None of these vaults appar to place a large iron troll pack, I might just be terrible at .des synthax though. 15:07:40 well I think you could argue for just making iron trolls normal speed and adjusting their placement, but that messes up a couple things 15:07:46 most notably BiA 15:08:13 -!- bedkrab is now known as Atomikkrab 15:08:24 my general impression is that deep trolls can replace iron trolls in a lot of places 15:08:26 deep troll (08T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 27, 20, 20 | 10doors, sense invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(40) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 726 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 15:08:26 %??deep troll 15:08:42 not necessarily bia; I don't feel strongly about that 15:08:44 but if someone wanted to replace them in abyss vaults 15:08:58 well you can get them in BiA already 15:09:04 -!- Morik_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:09:07 but a zerked iron troll already is pretty ridiculous 15:09:18 a zerked normal speed one would be even more so 15:09:34 them being deep trolls, since that was confusing 15:09:46 and that being what I said, since that was confusing 15:09:51 Should I replace iron troll weight with deep troll weight were able? I'm going to guess yes. 15:10:16 hrm, deep trolls always place in bands, yes? 15:10:19 do regular deep trolls spawn with bands? or is it just employed ones? 15:10:19 where in particular do you want to remove iron trolls? 15:10:40 are we still just talking depths? 15:11:20 for the slow ones, probably ideally everywhere 15:11:32 uh 15:11:40 PleasingFungus: Also some OOD D and Orc spawn, more for throughness. 15:11:41 I'm very confused 15:11:49 reaverb: that seems reasonable, yes 15:12:02 gammafunk: Did you read the iron troll discussion on crd? I tried that but I had to compromise :D 15:12:26 well so far I've heard that melee-only threats in dis are good, which I agree with but 15:12:41 Well and also it was pointed out meddling with Extended with Extended expeince wasn't very reasonable. 15:12:42 if we want slow-moving melee threats in dis, I'm pretty sure that's just a bunch of iron dragon zombies 15:12:55 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:55 and if we want normal-speed melee only threats there, that's great too 15:13:30 but slow-moving iron trolls, I'm not sure they really work anywhere in terms of being needed 15:13:46 they could be normal speed, its not a big deal 15:13:48 they aren't *necessary*, but they work fine, and they add variety 15:13:50 which is nice 15:13:57 they aren't a Problem 15:14:20 we're removing giant slugs & elephant slugs because they're Problems (or that's what I think the consensus was?) 15:14:22 my question is, if you replaced them in hell endings, what do you use? everything else that fits is a ranged enemy, or is too weak 15:14:57 my thought is that they'd be improved if normal speed 15:15:05 why? 15:15:17 because slow-moving melee enemies are generally not very good 15:15:24 except 15:15:28 PleasingFungus: Removing Slugs is just waiting for a patch from what I can tell. 15:15:36 we've just established why the usual problems with slow melee enemies don't apply..... 15:15:41 slow-moving melee-only that is 15:15:42 so you still need to argue your point there, I think 15:16:06 the point is just them being slow only detracts from the enemy 15:16:14 them being normal speed is an improvement 15:16:26 Should I push removing iron trolls from standard generation or should I wait for this argument to resolve? 15:16:26 an improvement for what? it'd make them stronger, but would it make them more interesting? 15:16:46 reaverb: tbh I don't think anyone will miss them in d/depths even if they were normal speed 15:16:54 there are plenty of trolls there as is 15:16:56 Ok, I'll just push then. 15:16:58 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:48 interesting is subjective, but I'd say that the annoyances that come from kiting and generally exploiting monsters without ranged that are slower than the rest of monsters make it worth removing the slow aspect 15:17:57 -!- zxc232 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:08 except there's a real cost to kiting in dis (or abyss, for that matter, if you're near a rune vault...) 15:18:16 and so it's generally not advisable there 15:18:20 we have 1 million different zombies/skels 15:18:31 if that slow-moving aspect is really interesting 15:18:42 they have different dynamics from iron trolls/golems 15:18:53 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1221-gabb6ffd: Wrap a comment properly 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=abb6ffdf6e3b 15:18:53 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1222-g208768d: Remove an unnecessary forward declaration 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=208768decfed 15:18:53 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1223-g24cdee3: Remove Iron Trolls from natural generation 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=24cdee320656 15:18:54 dispel undead, tso healing,e tc 15:18:54 theres also way too many undead and demons already in hell 15:18:56 also that 15:19:10 Yes Extended needs more varied holiness. 15:19:17 from what I've heard. <_< 15:19:22 this only addresses one part of kiting, but that's still progress 15:19:23 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:30 what's the other part of kiting? 15:19:31 hey, if you find it interesting to have monsters be more trivial in dis, by all means 15:19:46 (so I agree that slow monsters that can be kited should be removed, or made non-slow, or made interesting.) 15:19:54 PleasingFungus: if the player is faster 15:19:59 ha. true 15:20:03 e.g. Spriggans 15:20:06 centaurs! 15:20:14 I have an idea for this, but not now :) 15:20:24 I'm reminded of the guy who killed dis, then started heading out to loot the rest of the fortress, got cornered by slow-moving iron golems, desperately blasted them as they slowwly closed on him, and then got beaten to death. 15:20:28 *dispater 15:20:31 good tv. 15:20:39 Do people really kite iron trolls in dis? 15:20:42 thats basically what iron golems are for, yeah 15:20:49 I would actually care about an iron troll in dis if I knew it might not get out of los in a few turns 15:21:18 hm 15:21:33 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 15:21:47 !lg * killer=iron_troll place=dis:7 15:21:48 5. splat the Ninja (L18 SpEn of Dithmenos), mangled by an iron troll on Dis:7 (iron_city_of_dis; dis_mu) on 2014-04-20 01:06:49, with 365575 points after 22974 turns and 2:20:11. 15:21:49 good name 15:22:05 One of 78291's accounts. 15:22:15 !lg * ckiller=iron_troll dis:7 s=name 15:22:16 5 games for * (ckiller=iron_troll dis:7): jeanjacques, splat, Julia, Palyth, Meagre 15:22:21 a man of many masks... 15:22:48 !lg * place=dis s=ikiller 15:22:48 584 games for * (place=dis): 114x a Hell Sentinel, 101x Dispater, 101x the effects of Hell, 43x an Ice Fiend, 33x a Brimstone Fiend, 32x a hellion, 28x, 24x a Fiend, 17x an iron dragon, 13x a reaper, 10x a Pit Fiend, 5x an iron troll, 5x an Executioner, 4x an iron devil, 4x an iron dragon zombie, 4x a skeletal warrior, 3x a Shadow Fiend, 3x a lich, 3x a quicksilver dragon, 3x the Serpent of Hell, ... 15:22:56 (what the hell sentinel) 15:23:15 replace iron trolls with execs 15:23:17 done 15:23:20 idk. not every enemy has to be a hell sentinel. 15:23:23 or an exec, yes 15:23:24 !lm * orb lg:place=D:1 s=lg:ikiller 15:23:28 PleasingFungus: are you sure 15:23:29 9 milestones for * (orb lg:place=D:1): 2x a Hell Sentinel, 2x, Arumugg the pandemonium lord, Wafenev, an Executioner, Feonet the pandemonium lord, an Orb Guardian 15:23:31 ok, an iron devil then 15:23:32 executioners are kind of easy at that point inthe game 15:23:36 since they have as many kills 15:23:38 Basil: well, not *sure* :p 15:23:43 or an iron dragon zombie 15:23:44 evilmike: tbf so are iron trolls 15:23:54 iron trolls & iron golems are not top tier threats in dis 15:23:58 Finding an Abyss exit does not give any message. by minmay 15:23:58 yeah true 15:23:58 that is okay 15:24:11 Replace every enemy in Dis with Dispater 15:24:12 there need to be low tier threats 15:24:15 done 15:24:32 well sure, but there are many equally threatening monsters we can replace them with 15:24:35 that would be kind of a cool wizlab. the Cloning Labs 15:24:41 like the new iron devil, for instance 15:24:47 3 Dispater comes into view. 15:24:49 i guess so 15:24:53 the new iron devil is vastly less threatening 15:24:55 i just wish it wasnt yet another demon/undead 15:25:02 than iron trolls or iron golems 15:25:05 that's not what lg indicates 15:25:10 they're vastly more common 15:25:15 and have a habit of stealing kills 15:25:26 but they're not threatening 15:25:27 PleasingFungus: Oh, and before I forget, since you like trying to make buffs intersting could you also look at phase shift? It's Insulation except with the Ring of Shaolin instead of a ring of see invisible. I was condering pushing for it's removal but it seems you would want at crack at improving it first 15:25:29 extended is basically "the demon branch", "the mummy branch", and then 4x "mixed undead-demon branch with some giants/dragons thrown in" 15:25:35 iron devils steal kills 15:25:41 %git :/evil 15:25:42 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.15-a0-1165-g10e107e: Arm Iron Devils 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=10e107e5aa7d 15:25:54 maybe they do now that they have weapons 15:26:00 they do about 25% more damage, per fsim 15:26:03 still irrelevant 15:26:06 bless 'em 15:26:08 !send PleasingFungus Huge Dmg 15:26:08 Sending Huge Dmg to PleasingFungus. 15:26:08 iron devil (104) | Spd: 8 | HD: 8 | HP: 28-59 | AC/EV: 16/8 | Dam: 14, 14 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(64), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 324 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 15:26:08 %??iron devil 15:26:21 this is pre buff, alas, but it's close enough 15:26:43 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:02 gammafunk: you keep arguing "we could replace iron trolls/golems with x or y or z", but you still haven't persuaded me that they need to be replaced 15:27:03 yeah with a weapon they're not even far from an iron troll 15:27:14 "they should be more threatening" - suggests replacing them with iron devils 15:28:01 whats the difference in hd 15:28:11 that is relevant, it determines to-hit 15:28:19 iron troll (10T) | Spd: 7 | HD: 16 | HP: 63-109 | AC/EV: 20/4 | Dam: 35, 25, 25 | 10doors, regen | Res: 06magic(106), 05fire, 02cold | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 775 | Sz: Big | Int: normal. 15:28:19 %??iron troll 15:28:19 monsters that don't appear in many places and generally just do the exact same thing as other monsters where they do place don't really need to exist 15:28:22 2x hd 15:28:25 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:38 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 15:28:48 gammafunk: except they don't do the same thing... 15:29:14 oh, can I give lightning golems blinkbolt? :D 15:29:21 yeah they do pretty much the same thing as higher-tier zombies 15:29:25 unknown monster: "lightning golem, spell:blinkbolt" 15:29:25 %??lightning golem, spell:blinkbolt 15:29:29 ?? %?? 15:29:29 I don't have a page labeled %?? in my learndb. 15:29:31 or even iron devils 15:29:31 s/lightning/electric/ 15:29:38 ^ er,right 15:29:44 bh: you'd have to change "living lightning" <_< 15:29:50 unknown monster: "electric golem, spell:blinkbolt" 15:29:50 %??electric golem, spell:blinkbolt 15:29:55 Grunt: you do it 15:29:59 bh: nein! 15:30:03 * bh fails at syntax 15:30:46 Bad item name: 'spell:blinkbolt' 15:30:46 %??electric golem; spell:blinkbolt 15:31:03 electric golem (118) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 116-151 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Dam: 1511(elec:15-21), 1511(elec:15-21), 15, 15 | 11non-living, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 3123 | Sp: blinkbolt (2d20) | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 15:31:03 %??electric golem spells:blinkbolt 15:31:14 electric golem (118) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 116-151 | AC/EV: 5/20 | Dam: 1511(elec:15-21), 1511(elec:15-21), 15, 15 | 11non-living, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 3776 | Sp: b.lightning (3d20), blink | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 15:31:14 %??electric golem 15:31:57 less damage, but it doesn't blink 15:32:10 it bounces 15:32:20 bh: I feel like blinkbolt is something which should only belong to one monster. (Similar situation: wretched stars) 15:33:01 Unknown spell name: 'blinkbols' in 'blinkbols' 15:33:01 %??death_yak name:electric_sheep n_rpl spells:blinkbols 15:33:04 electric sheep (08Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 59-96 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 30 | !sil | Res: 06magic(93) | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 873 | Sp: blinkbolt (2d19) | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 15:33:04 %??death_yak name:electric_sheep n_rpl spells:blinkbolt 15:33:46 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:09 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:46 reaverb: just remove raiju! 15:34:46 reaverb: 'eh. It does damage and it moves the monster. That's a bit more mundane than tacking on a heap of transient mutations 15:35:13 reaverb: I need to think about it - I think phase shift is flavorful & adds valuable variety to tloc - however, yeah, its short duration & lack of drawbacks are kind of tricky from a design perspective. seems like you could do something with inacc, maybe...? I'd want to think about it. 15:35:14 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:17 bh: electric golems already do elec damage and blink 15:36:11 I think blink bolt for e. golems would be kind of a nerf since I'm imagining they'd get to use af_elec less 15:36:39 not really sure though 15:36:44 gammafunk: can we get e. golem kills stratified by melee and ranged? 15:37:00 yeah 15:37:07 gammafunk: Have you fought raiju? I felt like when I fought them blinkbolt made it way easier for them to get into melee. 15:37:47 !lg * ikiller=electric_golem s=kaux 15:37:47 297 games for * (ikiller=electric_golem): 231x bolt of lightning, 66x 15:37:55 huh 15:37:55 well, that'd be it 15:38:13 ...almost 80% ranged. 15:38:13 Wow 15:38:14 . 15:38:14 15 base dam isnt much, i'd guess af_elec is just blocked a lot of the time 15:38:15 297 seems quite low 15:38:31 and electric golems are really really dangerous if you are careless and get bolt bounced 15:38:33 !lg * zot:5 s=ikiller 15:38:34 2638 games for * (zot:5): 684x an orb of fire, 663x an Orb Guardian, 499x an ancient lich, 172x an electric golem, 66x a Killer Klown, 57x a storm dragon, 45x, 26x a tentacled monstrosity, 19x a golden dragon, 18x a white draconian, 17x a black draconian, 14x an ice dragon, 13x a curse toe, 13x Tiamat, 12x a shadow dragon, 12x a Balrug, 11x an Executioner, 10x an Ice Fiend, 10x a ghost moth, 10x a... 15:38:44 hrm, guess it's not that bad 15:38:50 !lg * ikiller=electric_golem place 15:38:50 297. saladin the Wrestler (L27 TrHu of Cheibriados), blasted by an electric golem (bolt of lightning) on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2014-06-01 00:28:11, with 711122 points after 81683 turns and 5:31:04. 15:38:51 not all that many die in zot 15:38:54 its actually good when they go in melee because it means you can hit them, and they are less likely to shoot you 15:38:56 !lg * zot:5 ikiller=curse_toe s=cv 15:38:56 !lg * ikiller=electric_golem s=place 15:38:56 13 games for * (zot:5 ikiller=curse_toe): 3x 0.14-a, 3x 0.14, 3x 0.13, 2x 0.13-a, 0.9, 0.15-a 15:38:57 297 games for * (ikiller=electric_golem): 172x Zot:5, 36x Zot:1, 28x Zot:2, 20x Zot:3, 12x WizLab, 10x Zot:4, 5x D:27, 2x Zig:13, 2x Zig:20, Vaults:3, Zig:16, Zig:6, D:24, Zig:19, D:23, Zig:10, Zig:27, Zig:7, Abyss:1 15:39:05 they also just do a lot of damage which means something else can take the kill 15:39:10 I wonder what the spawn tables are like? 15:39:23 they are rare and mostly are placed by vaults 15:39:29 sounds right 15:40:29 abyss:1 electric golem 15:40:31 good abyss 15:41:05 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:06 I'm not sure I've ever seen one in abyss; is that from a worldbinder? 15:41:15 !lg * ikiller=electric_golem s=place recent 15:41:16 65 games for * (ikiller=electric_golem recent): 39x Zot:5, 6x Zot:1, 4x Zot:3, 4x WizLab, 4x Zot:2, 2x D:27, Vaults:3, Zig:10, Abyss:1, Zig:27, Zig:20, Zot:4 15:41:26 !lg * place=abyss:1 ikiller=electric_golem 15:41:27 1. Somebody the Tortoise (L15 MiCK of Xom), blasted by an electric golem (bolt of lightning) on Abyss:1 on 2013-11-17 10:09:34, with 95394 points after 19650 turns and 2:31:27. 15:41:31 apparently not? 15:41:33 guess not 15:41:40 thos non zot/zig ones are interesting 15:41:42 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:51 i dont know how they would happen outside of weird kiting 15:41:53 yeah, heh. vaults:3 15:42:00 !lg * place=vaults:3 ikiller=electric_golem 15:42:01 !lg * place=vaults:3 ikiller=electric_golem 15:42:01 1. BotCarls the Gelid (L20 MuIE of Sif Muna), slain by an electric golem on Vaults:3 (mu_enter_wizlab_6) on 2014-01-09 23:30:03, with 311289 points after 90528 turns and 7:47:05. 15:42:02 1. BotCarls the Gelid (L20 MuIE of Sif Muna), slain by an electric golem on Vaults:3 (mu_enter_wizlab_6) on 2014-01-09 23:30:03, with 311289 points after 90528 turns and 7:47:05. 15:42:04 haha 15:42:06 oh 15:42:10 huh 15:42:18 a wizlab entrance with electric golems? 15:42:19 !vault mu_enter_wizlab_6 15:42:20 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/wizlab.des;hb=HEAD#l560 15:42:20 that's a ....rough wizlab entrance 15:42:28 huh 15:42:33 not seeing egolems here 15:42:37 no way it places an elec golem 15:42:39 !tv * place=vaults:3 ikiller=electric_golem 15:42:40 1. BotCarls, XL20 MuIE, T:90528 requested for FooTV (telnet://termcast.develz.org or http://termcast.develz.org). 15:42:43 !lg * place=vaults:3 ikiller=electric_golem x=kmap 15:42:44 1. [killermap=wizlab_doroklohe] BotCarls the Gelid (L20 MuIE of Sif Muna), slain by an electric golem on Vaults:3 (mu_enter_wizlab_6) on 2014-01-09 23:30:03, with 311289 points after 90528 turns and 7:47:05. 15:42:52 ahhh 15:42:56 makes sense 15:43:01 bad doroklohe 15:43:11 that one has always been a death trap 15:43:27 you'd think doroklohe would be a good place for a mummy to hang out... 15:43:28 I like how he's carrying around ?acquire. I guess maybe he found it in the Lab. 15:43:30 you know, thematically 15:43:52 Hmm, didn't know monsters could follow you out of wizlabs. 15:43:56 yeah that one does have a guaranteed acquire 15:44:40 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:56 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 15:46:05 Do people feel strongly about keeping goliath beetles if we keep worms? 15:46:54 Trying to decide what to replace slugs in vaults with. 15:47:02 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:47:18 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:18 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:45 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:53 I guess I don't know what slow-movers are being kept at this point 15:50:18 worms and goliath beetles are the only ones i ever really liked, if that makes any difference 15:50:47 !send evilmike_arrival_run_for_it evilmike 15:50:47 Sending evilmike to evilmike_arrival_run_for_it. 15:50:57 my impression is that oozes, giant slugs, and elephant slugs are going away 15:51:09 and worms and goliath beetles are disputed 15:51:26 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:51:26 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:51:46 I'd rather have oozes around then worms. 15:52:05 the problem with oozes is they don't do any of the j things. they're not proper js 15:52:16 they arent a j! 15:52:19 theyre a J 15:52:34 w/e 15:52:37 you and your glyphs 15:52:46 they're all pixels to me.... 15:53:39 -!- Almacia has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:23 -!- rbrrk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54:27 my impression is that peoples objection to worms are either theoretical ones (e.g. they are bad in theory, but in situations that rarely happen in actual games), or they are "annoying" to a vocal minority of players who really, really need to shut the fuck up sometimes or play a different game 15:54:34 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:54 not to name any names 15:54:59 it's probably a bit of both, i find there's too much of both sides 15:55:09 tbh i've been guilty of both of those too 15:55:39 mm. I have a little sympathy - if 'optimal play' really is to do dumb shit involving long-distance worm kiting, then that's obviously something that should be changed 15:55:52 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:53 I'm not sure that actually is optimal, though... 15:55:54 evilmike: "objection to worms" == "objection to removal of worms" or "objection to existence of worms"? 15:56:00 the latter 15:57:17 Well, they pose no real harm (design sense) but they don't add much to the game, right? 15:57:44 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:24 they seem to be good enough at killing (bad) players, thats always been enough for me really 15:58:28 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:28 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:58:46 mmm. they teach new players that it's often wise to try to ram headfirst into all monsters, and they can be situationally interesting - a worm in a d:1 corridor and something on the other side... 15:58:55 also what evilmike said 15:59:08 goliath beetles are also kind of stylish imo 15:59:18 note that i never really saw eye to eye with a lot of developers re: monsters, even when i was actively contributing to dcss (rather than just being some weird dude who yells at people on irc) 15:59:32 like, i never had a problem with that "hungry kobold" vault for example 15:59:40 hungry kobold vault? 15:59:49 the one with the halflings probably 16:00:49 %git 67dd6a7bb26c92405b7abc7fc55 16:00:49 Could not find commit 67dd6a7bb26c92405b7abc7fc55 (git returned 128) 16:00:52 hm 16:01:10 I still think you're pretty likely to have at least a polearm or some javelins by the time worms show up, ignoring half of all backgrounds start with a ranged attack of some sort. 16:01:21 ...javelins? really? 16:01:39 They seem to spawn on D:1 a lot for me? Maybe I'm just lucky. 16:01:44 yes, the polearm thing is an issue 16:01:46 maybe, yeah. anyway that's a quibble 16:01:51 but imo its an issue with polearms 16:02:06 you can do it equally well with any non-polearm weapon that doesn't have like 16 delay 16:02:22 i like that weapons types have unique aspects, but giving reaching to every weapon was a bad idea in hindsight 16:02:24 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:37 idk. I think polearms work pretty well 16:03:12 evilmike: I think this is a problem with slow melee-only monsters. Do you have an example of polearms not working which does not involve that style of monster? 16:03:17 i really dislike reaching because it makes combat much slower, both when players and monsters get it 16:03:19 Oh I guess the interface issue. 16:03:26 reaverb: when the monster is not adjacent to you 16:03:28 yeah thats the main thing really 16:03:40 it works with autofight, so that at least takes care of many cases 16:03:41 tab works...... 16:03:57 minmay: I guess that disrupts autofight, any issues other than that? 16:04:29 reaverb: no, there are no issues with reaching other than the one that appears every time reaching gets used 16:04:29 Well "disrupts autofight" might not be the right way to put it but I can see how that takes micromanagement at times. 16:04:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:35 water, statues, summons... 16:04:42 reaverb: it also used to be an issue with swiftness, i just rememebered that was fixed though 16:04:53 What I like about removing slow monsters is that so many have been added, and it's good to also subtract. 16:05:21 evilmike: Yes, also an issue with speed boosts. 16:05:56 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:05:56 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:14 minmay: Ok, but is what is "the one that appears every time reaching is used"? The previously mentioned interface problem? 16:06:42 reaverb: yes 16:07:09 minmay: Ok, I was slightly confused because I thought you were bringing up a differant issue, thanks. 16:07:19 reaverb: the need to examine monsters more often (because you can't see their weapon without doing that in console), when a monster has it, and the need to press v, when you have it 16:07:45 minmay: Oh yes, the examing monster issue in console was something I forgot, also good to know. 16:08:02 polearms are just one more aspect of kiting in general 16:08:17 polearms don't really have anything to do with kiting...you can kite just as well with any other melee weapon 16:08:31 kiting isnt even a problem most of the time 16:08:39 I think it might be possible for the game to discern/declare that a monster in being kited. When that happens, it says: "You cannot learn anything from killing this monsters." (no xp) 16:08:39 and of course you can kite dramatically better with any ranged attack 16:08:56 its fine. its the same as running around a corner or fighting in a corridor, or using stairs. it's using tactics to win fights 16:09:23 fr: actual kites in crawl 16:09:27 hm, whenever I do kite, I don't consider it fine but I am not a good player 16:09:31 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:09:31 dpeg: meh. I'd rather make our AI better 16:09:39 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:44 bh: galehar tried exactly this, and in a sense he failed 16:10:25 mm? 16:10:26 if those AI changes were supposed to make monsters harder to kite then thats pretty weird 16:10:30 since they made monsters easier to kite 16:11:07 dpeg: I find it extremely unlikely any attempt to identify kiting like that would work. 16:11:17 dpeg: See: Nemelex and wasting decks. 16:11:23 <|amethyst> rather, it would become something to game 16:12:04 I don't think giving 0 xp for slow monsters would be better than removing them 16:12:09 since presumably the point of giving 0 xp is that they are harmless 16:12:10 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:18 so why make the player bother killing them at all? 16:12:20 minmay: I am not talking about slow monsters. I am talking about fast players. 16:12:23 reaverb: I specifically disagree with that claim 16:12:38 the xp is practically irrelevant. this is what I meant about people objecting to things "in theory" 16:12:46 1. Am I slower than the player? 2. Do I have buddies who aren't slower than the player? 3. Am I between a staircase and the player? 16:13:01 roguelike AI isn't exactly a hard problem. 16:13:13 evilmike: I don't play Spriggans anymore because I lack the willpower to not kite. So to me this is not theory. 16:14:34 clearly replace spriggan movement speed with a 'sprint' ability that temporarily doubles their movespeed 16:15:10 also, creates a trail of dust and prints 'beep beep!' 16:15:12 ^ all we need is another tedious knob for players to twist 16:15:18 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:15:18 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:41 !send bh a tedious knob 16:15:41 Sending a tedious knob to bh. 16:15:52 * bh turns the knob 16:16:10 rip 16:16:39 bh: I would not want to cast slow on myself to get XP 16:17:07 reaverb: The idea of making slow monsters give no XP is an obviously bad idea. 16:17:25 If a monster can tell that you're kiting it, it should stop letting you kite it. 16:17:39 bh: Oh, that's what you're saying. 16:17:48 someone was talking about making monsters sprint if they think they're being kited, iirc. 16:17:58 In that case, I would not want to cast slow to make a monster stop running back toward that statue I'm avoiding. 16:18:04 bh: I would not want to cast slow on myself to get XP 16:18:07 you can actually do this in adom, haha 16:18:22 evilmike: Yes I know it sounds like the worse thing ever. 16:18:38 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 16:18:39 evilmike: I once hasted a lich so that slouch would do more damage. 16:18:48 or maybe I drank !slow, either way, it was a bad idea. 16:18:54 sounds like it! 16:19:05 bh: It wasn't haste because that would give you chei penance. 16:19:25 reaverb: it very well may have been. The lich blew my face off before I got a chance 16:19:47 bh: Hmm. 16:21:58 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:25 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:15 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:51 -!- infiniplex has joined ##crawl-dev 16:29:16 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:18 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:30:39 -!- reaverb has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:32:04 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 16:33:17 -!- e1999 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:22 reaverb: Can I start fixing up layouts based on my patches, or am I still waiting on that? 16:33:51 infiniplex: That's definetly still waiting. 16:34:08 OK. Thanks. 16:34:15 Patch #4 acquired some conflicts I fixed locally, should probably put up the fixed patch on the mantis issue. 16:34:56 should statue form's damage bonus start working for ranged combat, now that it's more like melee etc? 16:35:16 doesn't it only work for uc specifically atm? 16:35:16 I can't tell if making statue form marginally less terrible is worth making ranged combat marginally more absurdly overpowered 16:35:24 minmay: I would say yes? 16:35:27 -!- TMTurtle__ has quit [Quit: TMTurtle__] 16:35:29 reaverb: Also probably remove the first big patch. 16:35:52 infiniplex: Hmm, maybe also the other patches I pushed. 16:36:05 PleasingFungus: looks to me like it still works for melee weapons 16:36:07 huh no I'm wrong 16:36:13 weird 16:36:14 eh, I feel that ranged combat got weaker post rewrite 16:36:17 I wonder what code I was looking at 16:36:19 I mean obviously you don't get the form's UC base damage added to your melee weapon 16:36:29 but the 1.5x thing works 16:36:30 then why is it ok to be added to throwing 16:36:57 oh god damn it 16:37:07 I'm not proposing to add the UC base damage bonus to ranged attacks, that would be obviously absurd 16:37:13 I'm proposing to let the 1.5x damage work for ranged attacks 16:37:28 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:39:18 Lightli: Obviously you haven't tried throwing with 40+ str. 16:39:39 how much damage does a point of strength give you 16:40:20 i have no idea 16:40:56 But it does have the potential to be absolutely ridiculous. 16:42:33 40+ str is generally pretty ridiculous..... 16:42:51 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:11 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:56 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0/20140414143035]] 16:45:11 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.15-a0-1224-g3833f9c: Fix Confusing Touch's damage reduction 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3833f9cc2900 16:45:19 thanks minmay 16:46:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:42 My TrTm had 36 str in dragon form 16:46:43 so yeah 16:47:36 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 16:48:02 PleasingFungus: It's only 25+ str! 16:48:16 ? 16:48:19 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 16:48:24 -!- ActinalWhomp has joined ##crawl-dev 16:51:49 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:55:04 http://i.imgur.com/fqpyXtg.png http://i.imgur.com/ATHbiWd.png 16:56:14 kinda cute 16:56:48 I make tiles by taking other tiles and jamming them together 16:56:50 <|amethyst> bh: re AI, part of the problem is not making them too smart 16:57:00 <|amethyst> e.g. we could trivially make centaurs a lot tougher 16:57:08 <|amethyst> and already have a flag for it :) 16:57:08 |amethyst: sure. It would be pretty straight forward to make an AI that would flat out win every time 16:57:48 its actually good to have them deliberately stupid, e.g. how they switch to melee if you are next to them 16:57:53 it's called an ai for a casting monster that is faster than you and exploits that it can attack and walk out of your sight in one turn 16:58:04 and always makes sure it can do this before attacking 16:58:09 if anything, the "best" ai for crawl is one that's "stupid in the right way", if that makes sense 16:58:53 <|amethyst> curse kite? 16:59:35 There are definitely far too many encounters in crawl for it to be a game of "How do I kill this monster this time". 16:59:42 And "How do I survive this fight" works just fine. 17:00:06 not sure what that means, sorry 17:00:58 -!- eb_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:24 unknown monster: "draconian annihilator, other, corona, silence" 17:01:24 %??draconian annihilator, spells:haste other, corona, silence 17:01:27 (Well it's a pretty dumb abstraction for how you kill the monsters without getting killed.) 17:01:47 unknown monster: "draconian annihilator other, corona, silence" 17:01:47 %??draconian annihilator spells:haste other, corona, silence 17:01:52 * bh kicks Grunt 17:02:15 mottled draconian annihilator (12q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 68-90 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 05fire, 04napalm | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1492 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d6), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23) / sticky flame splash (3d6), haste other, corona, silence | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:02:15 <|amethyst> %??draconian annihilator spells:haste_other;corona;silence 17:02:51 |amethyst: hrm, how do you replace the spell set? 17:02:59 draconian (07d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 50-75 | AC/EV: 10/11 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(10) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 524 | Sp: haste other, corona, silence | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:02:59 %??draconian spells:haste_other;corona;silence 17:03:18 draconian (07d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 50-123 | AC/EV: 10/11 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(10) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 525 | Sp: haste other, corona, silence | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:03:18 %??draconian spells:haste_other;corona;silence hd:16 17:03:25 <|amethyst> hm, that's weird 17:03:46 it would be better to have a single-target "mute" hex for that i think? 17:03:51 <|amethyst> I mean, I can see sticky flame splash staying around, but I don't know why the job is overriding the spell set 17:04:14 mottled draconian annihilator (12q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 68-90 | AC/EV: 8/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 05fire, 04napalm | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1492 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d6) / sticky flame splash (3d6), b.lightning (3d21), crystal spear (3d35), blink, iron shot (3d29), poison arrow (3d23) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:04:14 <|amethyst> %?? draconian annihilator spells:none 17:04:58 evilmike: if folks would be receptive to adding such a monster, I'd code up a mute 17:05:17 mute would be entertainingly nasty 17:05:33 was just a random thought, probably should take it too seriously 17:05:34 probably the simplest implementation would be a very-short-duration silence (so the radius is just around you) 17:06:05 its more about, how to have a silence effect that doesn't help you more than it hurts (by muting the caster and the rest of the enemies) 17:06:15 sure 17:07:06 oh I realized the last thing I said was unclear. I was suggesting setting a very short-duration silence on the player, since that'd be simpler than adding a new 'mute' enchant to do the same thing 17:07:10 smite targeted, single square mute. That would be a nasty mennas power 17:07:20 It's pretty much just engulf 17:07:23 <|amethyst> oh hm 17:07:33 give it a smite targetted weakness to be fair 17:07:45 not sure it needs to be smite targeted...... 17:09:01 <|amethyst> ah, I see why the draconian thing is happening 17:09:17 <|amethyst> it's a problem in monster 17:09:22 <|amethyst> not sure the best way to fix it 17:09:27 is the class getting layered on top after the spells:none is applied? 17:10:01 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: no, it's switching the monster from "draconian annihilator blah blah" to "mottled draconian annihilator blah blah" 17:10:09 <|amethyst> err 17:10:21 <|amethyst> to "mottled draconian annihilator" without the "blah blah" 17:10:23 <|amethyst> that's the problem 17:10:30 huh 17:10:30 gnoll shaman (16g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-27 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 40 | Sp: corona, heal other (2d1), haste other, 04esc:minor healing (2d1) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 17:10:30 %??gnoll shaman 17:10:31 unknown monster: "troll shaman" 17:10:31 %??troll shaman 17:10:32 <|amethyst> it does this so the different trials are with the same monster 17:10:36 reminds me of the %??Draconian knight bug 17:10:39 deep troll shaman (16T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 34-62 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 27, 20, 20 | 10doors, priest, evil, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(48) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 876 | Sp: haste other, might other, 04esc:minor healing (2d6) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 17:10:39 %??deep troll shaman 17:10:54 draconian (07d) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 50-123 | AC/EV: 10/11 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 525 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:10:54 %??draconian hd:16 17:11:09 i take it that monster's handling of draconians is even hackier than crawl's 17:11:12 wheals: Was it the one with the stupendously huge spelllist? 17:12:27 I think monster's handling of draconians is broken specifically because crawl's handling is hacky 17:12:44 <|amethyst> monster's handling of everything is hacky 17:12:48 it's poking around in crawl's guts, and can't hook into the hackery properly 17:12:58 more of a reason to just split the colors into roles 17:13:13 Is there some other spell that could work on a support draconian? 17:13:23 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-1224-g3833f9c (34) 17:13:38 Berserk. :v 17:14:03 -!- APV has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:14:20 Bloax: summon moth 17:14:30 draconian entomologist 17:14:55 zombie draconian entomologists can also summon moths of supressions and polymoths 17:16:31 and moths of immolation! 17:16:32 draconian lepidopterist 17:16:51 do any monster cast inner flame? 17:16:55 uh 17:17:04 'probably not' 17:17:14 player shadow monster 17:17:49 I'm not sure if inner flame would do as much against the player as for the player. 17:18:03 <|amethyst> if it were changed to not be considered an offensive spell 17:18:10 give them smite targeted sputterflies and inner flame 17:18:12 <|amethyst> then they could use it on their allies, or themselves 17:18:28 <|amethyst> currently, if they could cast it, they'd only cast it on you and your summons 17:18:32 <|amethyst> neither of which do anything 17:18:37 not so useful, no 17:18:39 <|amethyst> I guess maybe on your non-summoned undead 17:18:43 hm 17:18:46 moth of wrath (04y) | Spd: 12 | HD: 9 | HP: 33-66 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 2505(rage) | fly | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 504 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 17:18:46 %??moth of wrath 17:18:56 <|amethyst> moth of flammibility? 17:19:04 the idea was to have them work basically the same as these guys 17:19:09 insofar as the idea was serious 17:19:09 <|amethyst> s/mmi/mma/ 17:19:19 !sent |amethyst moth of inflammability 17:19:23 fuck 17:19:26 typing's hard :( 17:19:51 -!- infiniplex has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:20:37 Draconian Job Tile by brendan 17:24:17 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:47 -!- alefury has quit [*.net *.split] 17:28:27 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:51 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:29:00 mottled draconian caller (07q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 72-103 | AC/EV: 9/10 | Dam: 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 05fire, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1374 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d6), sum.drakes | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:29:00 %??draconian caller 17:29:06 mottled draconian zealot (09q) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 69-91 | AC/EV: 12/10 | Dam: 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(42), 05fire, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1615 | Sp: sticky flame splash (3d6), sum.demon, hellfire burst (3d15), minor healing (2d8), smiting (7-17), animate dead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 17:29:06 %??draconian zealot 17:34:12 re: single target Mute spell; didn't that exist as a player spell in the past before getting removed? 17:36:36 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:46 -!- N78291 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:27 davidgn (L6 DEWz) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:2) 17:38:28 dissilient (L4 HuSu) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:3) 17:38:29 InternetKraken (L26 DEGl) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Depths:5) 17:38:30 xczxc (L15 SpEn) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:15) 17:38:31 tocasia77 (L2 GrEE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:1) 17:38:48 Category (L17 VpEn) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Swamp:3) 17:38:49 AlphaWeltall (L11 DsGl) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Orc:3) 17:39:18 -!- Blomdor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:44 good crashes 17:41:37 yes 17:41:40 tiles unreasons 17:42:51 <|amethyst> !lm * cao crash noun~~'Socket write error' s=tiles 17:42:52 610 milestones for * (cao crash noun~~'Socket write error'): 364x false, 246x true 17:42:54 I've had tiles crash my console game so 17:45:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:27 An iron troll comes into view. 17:46:40 wheals: Heh, probably some vault. 17:46:45 no, orc 17:46:48 -!- Sjohara has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:52 Oh, hmm. 17:47:09 Wait, I don't think the server have updated since I pushed that. 17:47:41 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:47:44 correct 17:49:18 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:22 one thing missing from chunkless is the good gods cannibalism conduct, could have monsters you can't eat not drop food (though zin would become no food drops at all) 17:50:33 N78291: I don't think the cannibalism conduct was really ever relevant, and I think the flavor is more the monsters carrying the food then you making it out of thier flesh. (At least for intellegent monsters) 17:50:50 I guess maybe with Zin. 17:51:15 counterpoint: i think it makes a hell of a lot more sense to give all edible monsters a food drop chance 17:51:18 it was mostly relevant for races that have a branch (so orcs and elves) 17:51:24 the idea is to just replace the crummy ui of chunks, right? 17:51:33 so it's just an abstraction of that 17:51:55 and yes, different lair branches have a big difference in food now 17:51:59 and so I think it'd make sense to apply the cannibalism/intelligent beings conduct there, just as we're applying it with gozag 17:52:48 I guess I don't really mind much either way. If somebody wants to implement that I'm not going to stop them. 17:53:05 although it does seem a little unnecessary to me. 17:53:08 <|amethyst> change Zin's conduct to "all intelligent creatures must be properly buried (with p) before they rot" 17:53:21 beogh is very offended at you getting up on his turf! 17:53:29 <|amethyst> I was about to say, Beogh too 17:53:41 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:53:44 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 17:53:58 maybe I will take a break from Boulder Hill and make that change 17:54:41 s/hill/hell 17:54:47 <|amethyst> (I don't think this would actually be a good idea) 17:55:13 I kind of hoped so, yes :) 17:57:10 so who has conduct nutrition restrictions - gozag (effectively), zin, tso, beogh... ely? 17:58:58 lucy 17:59:12 you don't get to eat banished dudes! 18:01:16 wheals: the banishment piety cost far exceeds the nutritional cost from lost chunks 18:01:34 do you mean you don't use a disto weapon!?! 18:01:52 holy shit this boulder code is the best thing ever 18:01:55 more like boulder heaven 18:01:59 wheals: sure, but non-lucy buddies get distort weapons too 18:02:02 I mean it's broken as fuck but it's so cool 18:03:04 it exists around as much as ely/tso's does though 18:03:44 yeah but banished enemies rarely drop anything 18:03:48 so I don't need to do anything about it 18:04:29 oh, good, this code is really simple. 18:05:52 1learn add rare_messages 18:06:31 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:06:47 -!- stanzill has quit [Quit: muh!] 18:08:43 are you looking for more things to post on twitter? i remembered another good one: 18:08:45 ++you.bondage_level; 18:08:57 yess 18:09:10 I am always open to suggestions 18:09:11 -!- ToastyP is now known as ToastyP_ 18:09:31 -!- ToastyP_ is now known as ToastyP 18:11:51 Not tickling the watchdog for 60 seconds of user CPU time (not wall time!) means something is terribly wrong. 18:12:01 i dunno maybe this is totally normal programmer speak 18:12:11 but it sounds awesome 18:12:18 it sort of is but 'tickling the watchdog' is a good phrase 18:12:33 hm 18:12:54 also, just below that 18:13:03 (remember, C++ can't blink without malloc()ing something). 18:13:18 well, that's true 18:13:20 :p 18:13:25 reaverb: thanks for tavern posting on chunkless branch 18:13:32 dpeg: Sure. 18:18:02 drat. I screwed up in zigsprint. There was a convoker and I killed it! 18:18:31 -!- predator217 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:36 (that should probably be off the spawn list) 18:18:53 Should probably merge multisprint so that isn't a problem :D 18:19:17 along with xtrain. 18:19:28 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:39 there's a bug in xtrain where you don't gain any skill points... 18:19:39 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 18:19:45 Heh. 18:19:49 it's trunk, people can deal 18:20:03 wheals: while I subscribe to that viewpoint... 18:21:11 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:18 -!- buddhastalin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:31 bad idea: purple mons very occasionally drop a new type of permafood that gives !mut 18:24:28 <|amethyst> better: !mut is four times as common. No other change 18:24:35 haha 18:24:37 yess 18:24:38 mutations for everyone 18:24:47 I wanted to make them drop !mut but that would spoil the id game :( 18:24:58 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:28:58 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:24 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:35:09 -!- category has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:37:35 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:11 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:38 03PleasingFungus02 07[chunkless] * 0.15-a0-1220-gb95f7d4: Make all edible monsters sometimes drop food 10(2 minutes ago, 5 files, 53+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b95f7d494a0b 18:42:56 probably the odds will have to be adjusted 18:43:09 I want to make it proportionate to old chunk rates, if possible... 18:43:44 -!- mineral has quit [Quit: restarting...] 18:43:52 something like 2/3rds or 3/4ths the old avg corpse nutrition, in permafood, seems reasonable 18:44:06 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:06 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 18:44:06 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:44:35 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that sounds like way too much 18:44:46 you think? 18:44:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: considering that well over half the chunks I chop end up rotting in my inventory 18:45:02 aight 18:45:15 idk. should play some more & keep a close eye on my chunks 18:45:16 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:45:31 Hmm, what's the point of a genus monster? 18:45:34 can start out like this, but should be prepared to dial back quickly enough 18:46:10 reaverb: it comes up in various situations 18:46:12 grep around 18:46:25 <|amethyst> reaverb: of a genus monster, or of genera in general? 18:46:34 oh, I see 18:46:57 |amethyst: Ok, I'm removing giant slugs, and it occurs to me that's the genus monster for elephant slugs as gastronaut. 18:47:32 So I have no idea if the fact I just AXED_MON 'd giant slugs could mess something up, but given all the "dummy genus monster" entries I suspect so. 18:47:33 <|amethyst> reaverb: but the only things in that genus are giant slugs and elephant slugs 18:47:44 <|amethyst> so just make the genus "elephant slug" 18:47:51 <|amethyst> we can re-add a dummy if someone makes a new slug 18:47:54 |amethyst: (And gastronaut) 18:47:54 gastronok 18:47:58 <|amethyst> but I don't see that happening 18:48:04 I have two slug monsters planned 18:48:05 actually 18:48:12 <|amethyst> yes, but gastronok is an elephant slug 18:48:17 <|amethyst> so should have the same genus 18:48:18 specifically to fill the slug-shaped gap in crawl's heart 18:48:25 Since elephant slugs are also going to be removed, I'll just make it MONS_GASTRONOK. 18:48:34 <|amethyst> hm 18:48:45 <|amethyst> I think there should be a species monster for gastronok 18:48:49 <|amethyst> even if it's a dummy 18:48:57 Any particular reason for that? 18:48:57 <|amethyst> that way its corpse has a type etc 18:49:15 |amethyst: Hmm, Ok, I'll make it elephant slug then. 18:49:35 <|amethyst> right now arachne is the only unique without a species 18:50:00 <|amethyst> and she's supposed to be one-of-a-kind 18:50:14 make here a chimera 18:50:16 her 18:50:21 I thoguht she had two 18:50:30 Spider + Woman 18:50:42 new species: woman 18:50:55 WTF is that? Unthing! 18:50:58 <|amethyst> didn't we just deal with this with merfolk? 18:51:03 nooooo :( 18:51:11 the "woman" part as a joke 18:51:18 actually means Human 18:51:29 s/\ that sounds silly 18:51:43 everyone knows women are separate species 18:51:47 see: merfolk and mermaids 18:52:21 -!- ActinalWhomp has joined ##crawl-dev 18:52:21 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:53:26 !lg akrobin won 18:53:27 No games for akrobin (won). 18:53:35 ??akrobin 18:53:35 akrobin[1/1]: Play an AK. Get to XL 27 without ever entering the Dungeon. 18:53:50 <|amethyst> !hs akrobin 18:53:50 329. akrobin the Acrobat (L25 SpAK), quit the game on Abyss:4 on 2014-05-19 07:39:19, with 533149 points after 125959 turns and 19:55:35. 18:54:01 <|amethyst> !hs akrobin -2 18:54:02 328/329. akrobin the Tortoise (L25 DDAK of Makhleb), blasted by an orb of fire (bolt of fire) on Zot:5 (hall_of_Zot) on 2011-06-04 08:21:40, with 459735 points after 134861 turns and 13:18:31. 18:54:26 Going to guess 1 cheated too. 18:54:38 i was watching 1 18:54:44 there was no cheating 18:54:50 Really? Hmm. 18:55:00 <|amethyst> "cheating" meaning leaving the abyss? 18:55:06 !hs akrobin x=milestones 18:55:06 Unknown field: milestones 18:55:08 probably 18:55:10 |amethyst: Yes. 18:55:17 Why did he quit? I was watching that HS for a while 18:55:21 !hs akrobin x=gid 18:55:22 329. [game_key=akrobin:cszo:20140410173616S] akrobin the Acrobat (L25 SpAK), quit the game on Abyss:4 on 2014-05-19 07:39:19, with 533149 points after 125959 turns and 19:55:35. 18:55:25 <|amethyst> !lm akrobin abyss.exit 18:55:26 1. [2011-03-11 02:31:43] akrobin the Severer (L14 DDAK of Cheibriados) escaped from the Abyss! (Abyss) 18:55:26 !hs akrobin -log 18:55:27 329. akrobin, XL25 SpAK, T:125959: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/akrobin/morgue-akrobin-20140519-073919.txt 18:55:31 Probably boredom. 18:55:33 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:55:35 !lm akrobin gid=akrobin:cszo:20140410173616S s=milestone 18:55:35 11 milestones for akrobin (gid=akrobin:cszo:20140410173616S): 4x abandoned Lugonu., 3x became a worshipper of Lugonu., 3x mollified Lugonu., began the quest for the Orb. 18:55:40 <|amethyst> -2 cheated but that's the only time akrobin has left 18:55:55 I'ts akROBIN just let somebody else pick up the char :D 18:56:08 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:24 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 18:56:39 <|amethyst> 125959 | Abyss:4 | akrobin: Then I guess I'll end the chat. 18:56:42 <|amethyst> 125959 | Abyss:4 | akrobin: I am decently sleepy now. 18:56:48 <|amethyst> 125959 | Abyss:4 | akrobin: Anyway, goodnight. 18:56:53 <|amethyst> 125959 | Abyss:4 | Quit the game 18:57:02 <|amethyst> killed by a typo? 18:57:03 |amethyst: ^ ow 18:57:18 <|amethyst> that's a pretty hard typo to make though 18:57:22 <|amethyst> what with the "Yes" 18:58:49 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:00:05 -!- casmith789 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:08 "I am decently sleepy now." 19:02:01 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02:57 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1225-g574083a: Remove Giant Slugs 10(3 hours ago, 16 files, 31+ 57-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=574083af5af8 19:03:41 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:18 -!- bh has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:30 <|amethyst> oh` 19:08:34 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 19:09:05 <|amethyst> should grunt_ashenzari_visionary_swamp have spriggan riders/druids, etc etc? 19:09:19 |amethyst: For the swamp? Probably. 19:10:08 Even better: Mind a way to reject "aquatic spawns" and just use Swamp's list. 19:10:13 s/Mind/Find/ 19:10:18 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:10:26 !vault visionary 19:10:27 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/ashenzari_visionary.des;hb=HEAD#l31 19:10:29 <|amethyst> reaverb: re that commit 19:10:45 <|amethyst> reaverb: looks like in some places you replaced elephant slugs in vaults with worms? 19:10:56 |amethyst: Yes, since elephant slugs are going soon too. 19:11:11 I did that a little inconsistantly though. 19:23:25 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 19:24:09 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:07 |amethyst: Yes, since elephant slugs are going soon too. 19:25:11 but then how will people get GDA in lair 19:25:23 minmay: That was already removed. 19:25:33 No hides from polymorphed monsters. 19:25:53 * Grunt appears! 19:28:43 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:05 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:04 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:36:47 So it's not possible to get a royal jelly GDA either? Boo 19:38:15 Hmm, if elephant slugs are going to be used as vault spawns anyway it might be worth keeping them as the "slow monsters" ? 19:38:23 They're more flavorful than worms. 19:38:48 err, as a base monster. 19:39:18 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:40:34 (like the royal jelly honeycomb thing) 19:41:32 if you keep them for gastronok purposes, you can also just set a couple flags to make them dummy monsters 19:41:44 i forget what they all are, one of them is no_poly_to 19:41:57 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:42:15 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:43:14 I know I could make them dummy monsters, I just think "elephant slug" communicates the fact they are slow better than "worm" 19:44:49 Why don't felids get the ability to eat corpses/chunks in chunkless? 19:45:18 tabstorm: Why would they? 19:45:33 So that FeBe is less unbearable 19:45:55 Or any Fe that benefits from having the gourmand 19:46:00 property 19:46:14 if anything felids eating corpses makes sense 19:46:22 They are cats 19:46:24 since you know, cats - carnivores, raw meat 19:46:26 they eat prey 19:46:29 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:46:34 yum yum 19:46:42 you pounce dudes then you eat them 19:46:46 What about kobolds? They're fully carnivorous too 19:46:52 and then a troll pounces you 19:46:54 and eats you 19:47:12 and then you kill that troll after exploiting your Magik Kat Power 19:47:39 I would like to see ko eat corpses so there is a mundane species that has the chunk gameplay 19:48:21 -!- zzzzzzzzzz has quit [Client Quit] 19:48:30 Chunk eating is as badly designed for carnivores as it is for not carnivores, I don't see any value in it existed except for Gh whcih is really just an entanglemnet problem. 19:49:22 PleasingFungus even made a musing "rot aura" suggestion in that direction. 19:49:42 N78291: Would you also want Tr to eat chunks? 19:49:58 no, tr has "huge metabolism" as its defining thing now 19:50:09 N78291: Hmm. 19:50:48 The value is to make Fe not unbearable to play: "Well, at least I have gourmand so I can zerk/spam high level spells" 19:50:48 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:50:53 I definetly see why Tr/Ko/Fe are debatable, but we've tried them eating chunks for years, might as well try them chunkless for a while. 19:51:01 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:51:10 Unless you remove troll metabolism 19:51:26 tabstorm: I think that A) If you feel that way, Fe may not be for you B) That's a differant issue anyway. 19:51:34 who is fe for 19:51:46 I've read the suggestion that trolls should have a chance of devouring whole any enemy that they kill in melee 19:51:53 which seems flavorful as fuck 19:51:58 -!- home has quit [Changing host] 19:52:46 wheals: Hmm, good point :D 19:54:04 -!- home has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:23 -!- home has quit [Changing host] 19:54:28 tabstorm: the current setup makes an enormous number of meat rations/beef jerkies spawn from dead enemies (instead of chunks), so fe/ko/tr carnivore is still quite useful; you get far more nutrition 19:55:19 I see 19:55:24 Complaint rescinded 19:55:55 More nutrition than you would in, say, 0.14? 19:56:09 from just eating every chunk you can 19:56:16 I don't know, why not play a game and find out? :D 19:56:45 I doubt it, which is why I like the idea of the trolls devouring corpses whole 19:56:56 but things are definitely still up in the air 19:57:20 e.g., right now meat just drops randomly from any edible corpse; I want to make it proportionate to the old chunk numbers... 19:57:55 PleasingFungus: I thin that's a vast ovecomplication (similar to old chunk numbers) 19:58:08 why? 19:58:28 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:01 -!- nooodl_ has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:59:24 PleasingFungus: Imaging Crawl had always had perma-food drops on enemy death. Now imagine if somebody suggested "Hey it's kind of weird all these enemies give the same amount of perma-food except for your god. What if every monster had a special secret number which determined how much perma-food they dropped?" 19:59:39 idk. weighting on that sort of thing seems reasonable 19:59:48 so that you can have packs that don't drop hilarious amounts of food, for example 19:59:52 (jackals, raiju...) 20:00:00 it seems like a good knob to be able to tweak 20:00:02 as a designer 20:00:05 Are there plans to tighten the food clock 20:00:18 no 20:00:19 not really 20:00:27 chunkless is just intended to remove the clunkiness of... chunks 20:00:39 seems difficult to do anyway since characters use vastly different amounts of food 20:00:41 yeah 20:00:48 i should write a defense of chunks to crd at some point 20:00:48 yeah 20:00:54 my personal feeling is that it's impossible as long as food is used for abilities 20:00:57 wheals: please do! 20:01:04 My plan after this resolves and is in Trunk is to go for goldification (the version where the "e" key is gone) 20:01:10 this being chunkless. 20:01:11 gasp 20:01:28 first ey goes, now e 20:01:32 Wow that is going to suck for some characters 20:01:41 add clean ears to use the newly available e key 20:01:49 that is a reaverb plan and is even more hypothetical/experimental than chunkless 20:02:02 my personal feeling is that nothing is settled until it's merged into trunk. or even then, really 20:02:18 I am still almost sure that figuring out non-food soft caps for the things currently soft capped by food and then removing food/hunger completely is probably easier 20:02:32 maybe I should actually sit down and think 20:02:37 maybe! 20:02:38 Oh yes, I'm defiently going to wait for chunkless to settle before even starting that. 20:02:45 -!- initemp_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:02:46 if you come up with a good plan, please write it up 20:03:12 the hardest thing to figure out is probably ely 20:03:16 Remove 20:03:40 rot cost, obv 20:03:41 There is a solution to ely 20:03:43 :) 20:04:05 Do many people even like playing ely anyway? 20:04:12 have it like plutonians, you use ely abilities and then explode 20:04:31 supposedly crate does (has?) 20:04:40 Maybe crate liked it at one point 20:04:53 It seems to be the case that he does not like the game anymre 20:05:10 ely is no more unfun than any other one-trick god when it gets going 20:05:12 yeah 20:05:14 Still: that's 1 person 20:05:19 getting ely going is annoying tho 20:05:31 What other gods qualify as 1-trick to you 20:05:33 I remember he didn't even bother winning DjHe back when that was the dumbest healer 20:05:36 I don't know 20:05:39 or even before it was removed 20:05:42 I can't think of any 20:05:44 oh god this vault 20:05:57 there are zero-trick gods! (vehumet) 20:06:07 But he gives you more tricks 20:06:19 well 20:06:22 You just hit z to use them 20:06:24 instead of a 20:06:26 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:34 there are some gods that just make your char better at what it already was doing 20:06:41 Sure 20:06:44 I like these kind of gods 20:06:46 me too 20:07:02 My opinion, though, lots of people want all these dang a abilities 20:07:03 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:07:03 I stopped liking ely once you lost the ability to pacify insects 20:07:08 I enjoy Ely at times 20:07:13 -!- Rikal has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:15 and ely is one step above these in the "hi I'm your god for today and we're doing this together" department 20:07:25 I just want to get on with killing enemies 20:07:33 and Ely was still more tolerable than old Nem 20:07:49 -!- LexAckson has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:18 Aside from ely what is there really 20:09:22 that must be balanced by hunger 20:09:33 spells have... MP, zerk has slow afterward 20:09:42 tla, according to the wiki 20:10:04 pssssh 20:10:33 that dosent even need balancing 20:10:40 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:10:42 with a strategic resource 20:10:50 some people (crate?) complain that things that are remedied by just hitting 5 are bad 20:11:05 notice I don't take crate seriously at all anymore 20:11:09 Ok 20:11:21 if we listenede to crate complains we would have the following: 20:11:33 No stairs, all monsters speed 11, No persistent levels 20:11:39 I cant even remember the rest 20:11:45 It would not even be crawl 20:11:48 yes 20:12:09 it's funny because when he first appeared he was basically my doppelganger 20:12:19 regarding his opinions about the game 20:12:26 -!- ProzacElf_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:33 I have never understood the complaints about upstairs, is it that bad to be able to walk upstairs and escape an enemy? 20:12:45 well there is a pattern to crate complaints 20:13:30 if you say so 20:13:41 upstairs is a bit off that pattern but 20:13:52 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 20:14:12 Oh also no fixed vaults 20:14:14 forgot that one lol 20:14:27 I hate some vaults tho like the stairvaults in zot 20:14:44 Depends what he meant by "fixed vaults" 20:14:45 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:46 I can kind of understand no vaults 20:14:55 I can understand this since its just "do you know the vault" 20:15:03 But sometimes it is fun to have a vault 20:15:03 4.1 (basically) has that and it is much harder since you get no loot 20:15:30 I tried to play 4.1 and it didnt have tab 20:15:35 So, I stopped 20:15:49 If there were no vaults how would you handle runes on branch endings 20:16:10 Probably means things with loot 20:16:16 Who knows man 20:16:26 4.1 had *almost* no vaults; it still had rune vaults, the Hall of Zot, and a few other things. 20:16:30 -!- ProzacElf_ is now known as ProzacElf 20:16:33 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:16:43 Most vaults with loot still have very random loot though 20:16:54 I have a list here somewhere of all the vaults that were in 4.0b26 (4.1 has basically the same things with a few adjustments) and where they are in modern Crawl, if anywhere. 20:16:54 yes it has some vaults that you would remember since they are still in dcss 20:16:59 crate specifically mentioning liking Zot:5 once IIRC 20:17:14 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:17:23 he dislikes the new zot layouts tho because they are "annoying" 20:17:32 which for me reads like 20:17:34 the maps? 20:17:39 the general openess 20:17:39 Man your char is a beast at that point 20:17:45 yes but the point is 20:18:14 It is true that mostly open layouts arent conducive to tactical positioning 20:18:15 these layouts are not going to stop a good player, so he hates them because it's just something that makes his game last eventually longer despite being won already 20:18:40 even though open zot is relevant towards making endgame harder for the average player 20:18:43 Usually I just dig drac packs 20:18:52 so that i get less lag 20:18:55 from the endless breath spam 20:18:59 harder as in actually having a final shot at killing the player character before zot:5 20:19:06 I could fight them in the open but ehh 20:19:07 need a draconian earth elementalist for zot 20:19:26 Ha, that would really get on crate's nereves 20:19:29 tbh when you're getting that annoyed with playing the game then imo it's time to take a break for a while 20:19:30 ##crate-dev 20:19:40 It's not the monsters themselves 20:19:41 (this is a strange and silly conversation) 20:19:41 its just lag 20:19:47 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:48 from missiles 20:19:54 Yes it is a silly conversation. 20:20:04 you can turn that off apparently 20:20:07 Isn't there an rcfile option for reducing/removing missile animations? 20:20:08 Dang 20:20:12 unless it is console only? 20:20:14 &rc gammafunk 20:20:16 http://dobrazupa.org/rcfiles/crawl-git/gammafunk.rc 20:20:17 I know ontoclasm was talking about adding one 20:20:18 some months ago 20:20:20 idk i should try to do it 20:20:42 xw uses it but it doesn't play tiles so I'm not sure if it works there 20:20:59 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:05 anyway 20:21:27 in non-##crawl channels the almost universal answer to the "but people want a soft cap on spells" for no food is 20:21:29 btw, where does the bot naming scheme of xw/qw/rw/etc come from 20:21:30 anyways: I don't think the things that need to be "regulated" with hunger actually need hunger regulation 20:21:35 "why not just glow" 20:21:49 WHy do people want a soft cap on spells? 20:21:53 I onno 20:22:01 To me its never really a consideration 20:22:02 it is relevant for bad players 20:22:03 except on a speed run 20:22:05 that rushes FS 20:22:10 your max MP is generally a good limiter on spamming spells 20:22:20 magicpoints: qw was first, everbody else followed IIRC 20:22:20 That is my thought 20:22:32 yes but people like having a fake strategic minigame 20:22:33 something about qwqw being an old quitrobin tester bot. 20:22:40 (which is why food exists) 20:22:42 elliptic described the history once. 20:22:52 I think its better to not have fake strategy 20:22:56 yes me too 20:23:02 You have cases like sif channeling or cboe but those amounts of MP generation are silly with or without the food cost 20:23:04 plus itd let me spam more storms 20:23:04 which is why I've been sort of lobbying for no food 20:23:06 which makes me happy 20:23:15 because i like blasting with vehumet characters 20:23:24 Or: Just make food a timer 20:23:29 "It's better to not have fake strategy" is not a very debatable statement. 20:23:31 and have it have nothing to do with 20:23:39 player combat actions 20:23:45 aside from.. how long they take 20:23:49 -!- Rikal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:24:12 you know that in theory score would be the "soft cap" 20:24:25 Well, only a few people play for scores 20:24:27 since crawl has a really good scoring system, except almost nobody cares 20:24:28 the problem is - yes 20:24:29 myself included 20:24:41 I acutally had fun trying to play for a good score recently 20:24:52 i even liked extended 20:25:07 Trying to not play for score leaves me a lot more bored than otherwise 20:25:47 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 20:25:53 it is pretty boring to just otabtabotabtab for 10 hours or whatever 20:25:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:28:04 yeah 20:28:06 Hmm, wonder how hard it would be to make curse skulls staitonary again pretty much everybody agreed it was a good idea but then nobody actually did it. 20:28:09 slowcral extended is ugh 20:28:13 Please just remove them 20:28:13 please 20:28:29 just give silver statues torment 20:28:33 EVERYONE hates curse skulls 20:28:41 i think 20:28:46 tabstrom: I tried but I only managed to secure permission for making them stationary. 20:28:58 oh fuck 20:28:59 arrrrgh 20:29:02 no one actually did that? 20:29:03 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:29:07 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:07 PleasingFungus: correct. 20:29:08 someone was going to do that 20:29:10 What happened 20:29:15 Why cant they get removed :( 20:29:17 well, nothing, apparently 20:29:19 No, nobody committed to doing that. 20:29:25 so it didn't happen. 20:29:27 someone had an idea for better curse skull placement 20:29:54 Vaugely, but that's even less well thought out than food goldification for what I could tell :D 20:29:55 on top of the curse vertebrae 20:30:03 I have a great idea for curse skull placement: Do not place them 20:30:30 actually, curse skulls are cool, and interesting. 20:30:34 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:36 I strongly disagree 20:31:01 turn Murray into a full Curse Skeleton 20:31:08 it was |amethyst 20:31:14 comes with a band of 10 curse toes 20:31:16 -!- bones_was_here has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:31:17 talking about placing them specifically at junctions in level gen 20:31:38 magicpoints: that'd certainly make him more dangerous! 20:31:52 PleasingFungus: I would create a graph and place stairs in such a way certain junctions must be crossed and then add curse skulls to those junctions. 20:31:53 How hard would |amethyst's idea be to code though 20:32:40 reaverb: I don't know if you'd even need to go that far; just cutting off certain sections of the map would be enough, I think 20:32:43 locking off loot/xp/etc 20:32:57 might be interesting to try, though 20:33:02 magicpoints: Since layouts are impelmented as really big vaults which the level maker can place other vaults on I would say it's possible. 20:33:10 4.1 curse skulls are stationary and summon undead around the player 20:33:21 not sure I've ever killed one but it's something! 20:33:29 imho we should try to make 0.15 as much like 4.1 as possible 20:33:33 or maybe the opposite of that 20:33:41 speed 20 OOF 20:33:43 PleasingFungus: I think that since Crypt is already optional nobody would ever try to attack those curse skulls. 20:33:44 sure 20:33:50 Or hm, did 4.1 have OOF? 20:34:01 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:01 reaverb: well, if you wanted to go to crypt in the first place.... 20:34:05 ?/meneril 20:34:06 Matching terms (1): meneril; entries (2): 4.1[2] | syllogism[1] 20:34:12 ??4.1[2 20:34:12 4.1[2/7]: http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/ancient/meneril/morgue-meneril-20080714-105929.txt http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/ancient/78291/morgue-78291-20140325-212951.txt 20:34:16 PleasingFungus: Probably for loot on Crypt:3 or access to the tomb. 20:34:20 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:27 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:34:33 yeah, so maybe blocking stair connectivity makes sense 20:34:35 i think sword -> oof was somewhere in version 3 or so 20:34:36 I'll accept that 20:34:43 the inverse of 4.1 is 0.2439024390243902 so that's the version where crawl will reach that point 20:35:01 dang 20:35:15 PleasingFungus: I thought you didn't like numerology. 20:35:36 hm, looks like 3.30 has dorgits 20:35:38 dorgis 20:35:38 4.1 has orbs, yes 20:35:44 I tried to melee one, it didn' 20:35:48 t go well 20:36:05 reaverb: I don't, except when I do 20:36:07 :p 20:36:13 yes, the comment on top of orbs of fire is signed by bwr so it must be in 4.1 at least 20:36:25 numerology: only pleasing when it fits your arguments 20:36:30 Heh. 20:37:10 So when are there going to be 27 floors in the game? 20:37:15 3051 // the quokka is no more ... {dlb} 20:37:15 3052 // Why not? it's a perfectly real animal... we'll just rip out 20:37:15 3053 // it's cybernetics.-- bwr 20:37:29 did crawl originally have cybernetic quokkas 20:38:16 Basil: there's way more than 27 floors! 20:38:17 geeze 20:38:20 -!- gnuvince has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:41 yes 20:38:53 So when will that not be the case 20:39:00 looks like sword/robot/dorgi ditching happened in 4 20:39:04 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:04 o 20:39:04 Hmm, looks like changing back curse skulls won't be so hard. 20:39:12 wheals: tell me about swords 20:39:18 or at least 3.4 has them but 4beta1 doesn't 20:39:48 i need to look in mstuff2.cc to find out 20:40:10 oofs used to be swords? 20:40:19 %git 4c9fca9d 20:40:20 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-2573-g4c9fca9: Clean up / adjust mostly spurious uses of ACTION_ENERGY. 10(4 months ago, 1 file, 18+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c9fca9d67b1 20:40:20 !source enum.h 20:40:21 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/enum.h;hb=HEAD 20:40:31 MONS_ORB_OF_FIRE, // Swords renamed to fit -- bwr 20:40:37 MONS_ELECTRIC_GOLEM, // replacing the guardian robot -- bwr 20:40:45 rip robots :( 20:40:47 %git fc2778f6 20:40:47 07Grunt02 * 0.15-a0-233-gfc2778f: Move monster shape into monster entries. 10(5 weeks ago, 3 files, 605+ 774-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc2778f61a89 20:41:03 So what did this "Sword" monster do 20:41:04 I should have called guardian golem guardian robot 20:41:08 impressive pyrotechnics? 20:41:09 swords 20:41:10 really 20:41:20 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:30 4570 case 381: // Sword 20:41:30 4571 20:41:30 4572 description = "An incandescent globe of light, capable of impressive " 20:41:30 4573 "pyrotechnics."; 20:41:30 4574 break; 20:41:38 Basil: let me dig up an enlightening comment from old Crawl. 20:41:39 N78291; the tile is deliberately a robot, fwiw 20:41:41 4576 case 382: // quokka 20:41:41 4577 20:41:41 4578 description = "A small marsupial mammal. "; //, altered by nanotechnological manipulators."; 20:41:41 4579 break; 20:41:49 uh 20:41:53 mmm 20:41:54 crawl was a strange game 20:41:57 bring that back 20:42:09 1learn add quokka 20:42:12 /* these next few monsters are taken from the Chronicles of an Age of Darkness, by Hugh Cook */ 20:42:17 SUBMIT TO THERAPY OR DIE 20:42:20 mmmmm 20:42:20 YOU ARE VIOLATING AREA SECURITY 20:42:22 379, 'R', LIGHTBLUE, "guardian robot" 20:42:25 Enlightening 20:42:26 Grunt: which ones? which ones? 20:42:27 380, 'R', DARKGREY, "dorgi", 20:42:29 Robots 20:42:35 381, '*', YELLOW, "Sword", 20:42:43 ... 20:42:45 382, 'r', LIGHTGREY, "quokka", 20:42:47 4586 case 386: // moth of wrath 20:42:47 4587 20:42:47 4588 description = "A huge moth, as violent as it is hairy."; 20:42:50 (this is in the same block of code) 20:43:08 !send Lugafu_the_Hairy wheals 20:43:08 Sending wheals to Lugafu_the_Hairy. 20:43:10 Grunt: was the '...' from surprise 20:43:11 Grunt: Ahhhh, I've been wondering what book Dorgis came from 20:43:16 -!- ActinalWhomp has joined ##crawl-dev 20:43:17 magicpoints: now you know! 20:43:25 (I actually have those books here somewhere. I've never read them.) 20:43:31 (I keep meaning to, but...) 20:43:48 i guess quokkas have cybernetic improvements in the series 20:44:02 kind of startled that moths of wrath have been around that long 20:44:19 as have death cobs and curse toes 20:44:40 ...i am surprised about hell hogs, though 20:44:43 you probably couldn't sneak those in now :( 20:44:46 i thought they were added when kirke was 20:44:48 when were toenail golems added? 20:45:00 I'm told originally Linley filled Zot with silly monsters because he didn't expect any players to make it there 20:45:15 case MWATER0: // big fish description = "A fish of unusual size."; 20:45:29 good description imo 20:45:40 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:42 Well Linley like nethack a lot more than current Crawl devs. 20:45:48 do ugly things still have their old desc? 20:45:58 sadly my rodent of unusual strength vault was rejected 20:46:12 was something like "An ugly thing. Yuck." 20:46:17 wheals: Heh, that's funny. 20:46:19 An ugly thing. According to legend, this mutated creature is the otherworldly spawn of a wizard's breeding experiment. Yuck. 20:46:22 'close enough' 20:46:35 The Yuck is kind of out of tone. 20:46:35 evilmike: don't forget "A very ugly thing. Double yuck." 20:46:41 4567 description = "\"The dorgi...was a huge grumping machine with a pronounced propensity for violence. It was huge, heavy, brown and bulbous. A hulking thing stubbled with inscrutable protruberances. A monstrous thing which moved upon its victims with a sound like heavy breathing.\"$(Hugh Cook, _The Wazir and the Witch_)"; 20:46:48 the original was pretty funny at least 20:47:02 i guess that's what a dorgi is 20:47:09 someone brutally mutilated the very ugly thing in the same way 20:47:11 alas 20:47:12 And now we have a uterus-shaped vault with with ugly things and wizards 20:47:34 Is that the cheibrodos vault 20:47:42 Yes 20:47:45 awwww yeah 20:48:12 haha every single unique had the same desc 20:48:21 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 20:48:21 what was it? 20:48:24 Was it "a mercenary" 20:48:24 It made it into the game, so in one of my previous games it got a fungal infection courtesy of fedhas 20:48:30 ew 20:48:37 yeah there used to be TONS of those mercenary uniques 20:48:44 oh right, 4.1 unique descriptions are needed 20:48:47 and most of them were orc wizards with better stats 20:48:53 4436 description = "A human wandering the dungeons, trying to keep you away from whatever is concealed in the depths. "; 20:48:54 N78291: yes!! 20:49:12 !send ##crawl-dev Rupert the Nutty Magician 20:49:13 Sending Rupert the Nutty Magician to ##crawl-dev. 20:49:20 What were 4.1 unique descrptions? 20:49:24 You hear a strangely unpleasant explosion. 20:49:36 Uniques have titles, like Boris, Master of Life and Death 20:49:48 Terence the Incautious 20:49:52 4223 case 289: // Yrug 20:49:52 4224 20:49:52 4225 description = "An orc. "; 20:49:56 fr Yrug 20:50:03 i think thats just urug 20:50:08 magicpoints: really? Wow 20:50:18 I'm not Urug, I'm my original character, Yrug! 20:50:40 its a cool feature if the titles just show up when the unique comes into view, and on the description. so combat msgs and the monlist would have the short name 20:50:53 That's how they work, yes 20:51:03 I sense a need for db work. 20:51:06 does 4.1 have a monster list? i thought that was a dcss feature 20:51:09 circa 0.3 or 0.4 20:51:10 montitle.txt 20:51:23 iirc the titles don't show when coming into view, but do on xaminiation 20:51:45 my feeling is since thats a 1 time message, its allowable 20:52:03 Erica the Manic Pyromancer 20:52:05 mmm 20:52:15 Wayne the Short Priest 20:52:20 Titles sound hilarious. 20:52:22 case 36: // K description = "Reputedly the creation of an ancient demon-god, kobolds are small goblin-like creatures with canine heads."; 20:52:26 maybe some of them could do with some tweaking 20:52:39 Yiuf the [something random, maybe using stuff from how artifact names are generated?] 20:52:44 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:45 so apparently kiku created kobolds 20:52:49 // TODO: add code to generate random demon titles -- bwr 20:53:05 -!- Somefellow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:54:44 Ok, curse skulls are stationary on my local copy, now to do some clean up. 20:54:53 An vaults which assume curse skulls can move? 20:55:08 Most vaults assume they *can't* move, iirc. 20:55:50 Yeah, moving curse skulls were problematic in vaults like that one crypt entry, or the ending with the trapped liches 20:56:08 Anybody else use M_VIGILANT or should that be removed too? 20:56:22 -!- Somefellow has joined ##crawl-dev 20:56:22 what does it even do 20:56:32 marks the monster as a curse skull 20:56:45 nicolae-: It means the monster won't ever forget you. 20:56:55 yeah grepping makes it pretty clearly limited 20:57:04 What about DTEEs? No? 20:57:13 Ha. No. 20:57:23 give it to murray 20:57:36 mummystabbing nerf 20:57:40 fr: M_VIGILANT means the monster stalks you through the dungeon 20:57:44 N78291: That is a joke correct? 20:57:52 yes 20:58:01 Grunt: new unique: rodney? 20:58:11 Grunt: another 4.1 thing we need: uniques coming up stairs 20:58:14 * Grunt booms out... "So thou thought thou couldst elude me, fools." 20:58:18 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:18 pan uniques already kind of do that on the orb run 20:58:19 N78291: I had a patch for that at some point! 20:58:22 I wonder what I did with it. 20:58:23 A Xtahua come up the stairs. 20:58:26 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:31 (I eventually decided it was a bad idea.) 20:58:38 magicpoints: The Xtahua roars! The Xtahua's blast of flame hits you! 20:58:40 yeah I was surprised the first time I saw cerebov show up on the orb run 20:58:42 uniques should come up stairs when you stand right next to them 20:58:48 they do? 20:58:56 unless it's dowan/duvessa 20:59:03 who have a ridiculous amount of special case code 20:59:04 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:04 no, i mean when you walk next to a downstair, a unique appears on it 20:59:09 i think geryon stays put as well 20:59:17 (though i didn't actually mean it) 20:59:26 Funny enough hell lords will follow you out of their hells 20:59:28 I wonder what happens when dowan or duvessa get shafted 20:59:57 magicpoints: have to get the rune back! 21:00:10 imagine what all the imps will think otherwise 21:00:14 !lg * killer=antaeus s=place 21:00:14 181 games for * (killer=antaeus): 179x Coc:7, 2x Hell 21:00:20 !lg * killer=antaeus place=hell 21:00:21 2. demonblade the Bringer of Light (L27 MfWn of The Shining One), blasted by Antaeus (bolt of lightning) in Hell (vestibule_of_hell) on 2011-12-15 18:09:51, with 801089 points after 120655 turns and 9:37:34. 21:00:25 'oops' 21:00:27 good name imho 21:00:28 of course it would be blade- 21:00:34 !lg * killer=antaeus place=hell 1 21:00:35 1/2. myuzinn the Kenku Porcupine (L27 KeWz of The Shining One), mangled by Antaeus (a +0,+0 ankus) in Hell on 2009-06-26 03:22:44, with 668526 points after 150472 turns and 21:21:29. 21:00:40 heh i didnt know they'd chase you into the vestibule like that 21:00:40 ......... 21:00:41 good weapon 21:00:42 dang 21:00:44 that is a 2009 kill 21:00:44 i guess its kind of hard to pull that off 21:00:53 kenku, ankus, everything 21:00:54 !lm . uniq=antaeus s=place 21:00:54 22 milestones for minmay (uniq=antaeus): 12x Hell, 10x Coc:7 21:01:03 hahaha 21:01:07 I used to find it more convenient to kill him in vestibule 21:01:09 !lm * uniq=antaeus place!=(coc|abyss) s=name 21:01:10 49 milestones for * (uniq=antaeus place!=(coc|abyss)): 12x minmay, 3x Tenaya, 3x Elynae, 2x trucutru, 2x Coolthulhu, 2x zigrobin, nago, coolio, HangedMan, Erev, kinch, HungrySpirit, AecTalek, Tegga21, 78291, magicpoints, dwarfmountainbat, aabb, hyperbolic, sexyelfdreams, syllogism, Ivo, clouded, jeanjacques, thevalrus, mikee, Sigurd, Jazzimus, crate, snoopy, Ultis 21:01:32 12xminmay, 1xsexyelfdreams 21:01:56 -!- discr has quit [Client Quit] 21:02:00 The time I did it I didn't even really mean to, but it wound up being convenient for me in the end 21:03:52 -!- Rikal has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:04:16 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:21 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:20 wow were restore stat once spells 21:06:48 Vasek (L18 OgHu) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Shoals:4) 21:07:07 By the way, going back to the subject of pre-Stone Soup monsters, I heard that when Pandemonium was first introduced, Cerebov, Gloorx, Lom, and Mnoleg were originally literally Okawaru, Kikubaaqudgha, Sif Muna, and Nemelex Xobeh. Is that so? 21:07:47 Yes. Their tiles are still in UNUSED 21:07:56 and the Veh one is my Tavern avatar. 21:07:57 case 253: // Okawaru 21:07:57 description = "A violent and wrathful demon, Cerebov appears as a giant human covered in shining golden armour and wielding a huge twisted sword. "; 21:08:18 Oh hmmm 21:08:25 looks like they got their individuality by 3.4, but as ever comments are kept as history 21:08:47 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:00 $ git add montitle.txt 21:09:14 I'll need help coming up with titles for some of these guys <_< 21:09:16 -!- xordid has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:09:26 I am here for you 21:09:30 Harold The One Day From Retirement 21:09:47 Harold the Weathered 21:09:58 Rupert the Unclean 21:09:59 arachne the spider queen or whatever that line is 21:09:59 <_< 21:10:14 Boris the Eternally Recurring 21:10:22 Boris is already Master of Life and Death. 21:10:25 (per 4.1) 21:10:28 (which is an awesome title) 21:10:33 boris, secretly fedhas 21:10:35 put it up on gdocs or something and I'll chip in 21:10:36 Hah. 21:10:37 the titles 21:10:48 or I guess just throw it into a branch 21:10:51 Boris of returning 21:10:53 Once I verify that this code works, I'll just sprunge the commit somewhere <_< 21:11:01 put it on transifex, duh 21:11:01 * Grunt awkwardly throws Boris. Boris returns to Grunt's pack! 21:11:06 Blork the Orc the Orc 21:11:07 Boris says, "You can't fire me, I quit!" 21:11:24 ??phantom mirror[quit 21:11:25 phantom_mirror[3/4]: You kill the rakshasa! Boris says, "You can't fire me, I quit!" Boris shimmers and vanishes! 21:11:38 that sounds like wizmode hax 21:11:50 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:50 Grunt: I can't edit a sprunge! 21:11:55 afaik :) 21:11:55 Related to tiles, I always thought Cerebov's tile looked a lot like Daos from the Lufia games http://www.lufiaworld.com/files/lufia1/story/10.jpg 21:11:59 %git cfc5e8ce 21:12:00 07Matthew_Cline02 * 0.5-a0-1620-gcfc5e8c: Generalize the mechanism for Boris' death message, so that any monster can potentially have a death message (or a message for when the monster is banished or a summon runs out of time). 10(5 years ago, 4 files, 106+ 49-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cfc5e8cefc51 21:12:08 I had LLL 3 Boris in an actual game, never had that message though 21:12:14 That's a long commit message. 21:12:14 magicpoints: they're bros 21:12:25 N78291: I swear I've seen it live at least once :) 21:12:34 I wonder how long that "XXX: Actual blood curse effect for Boris?" has been around. 21:12:37 quite a while 21:12:41 Then again, I remember seeing "Boris says to your battlesphere", which I'm fairly sure is impossible. 21:12:46 clearly the blood curse should be XXX 21:12:49 PleasingFungus: git blame 21:12:50 magicpoints: good sprite 21:13:13 reaverb: I wonder enough to say "I wonder", not enough to play the long game of hunting down commits across years of trivial formatting changes :p 21:13:23 especially when I'm pretty sure it'll end up predating the git repo 21:13:39 magicpoints: he also sorta looks like http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11113/111130441/3410618-download.jpg 21:13:58 Cerebov, the Master of Terror 21:14:01 PleasingFungus: There's surprsing little formatting changes in crawl code. 21:14:02 I'm the lion on the right knee 21:14:05 reaverb: bs 21:14:07 well 21:14:10 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:14 I guess I don't know what you'd consider to be 'surprising' 21:14:23 PleasingFungus: it's in 4.1 21:14:27 ha 21:14:28 so at least that old 21:14:30 well, obviously 21:14:30 I knew it 21:14:38 bwr never did dcss dev 21:14:41 ontoclasm: Is that a Warhammer 40k thing? 21:14:42 the 'bwr' is admittedly a bit of a giveaway 21:14:47 magicpoints: yes 21:14:53 I've cared enough to serach like 5 times and only ran into a formatting change once (the Degeneration should be rare and intersting comment) 21:15:06 I never got into 40k but the art is neat 21:15:07 oh 21:15:16 every time I've searched, I end up going through 3-5 layers of formatting changes and random shit 21:15:29 it's the emperor of mankind, who is too holy to have his arms connect to his torso in a reasonable manner 21:15:34 like, the a < 0 < (b < 0) thing from the other day - that was four layers, iirc 21:15:43 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:16:05 http://sprunge.us/iFKf 21:16:15 It works! 21:16:27 ...let me start up a worksheet for titles <_< 21:16:38 Agnes isn't greedy anymore is she? 21:16:50 She's the lover of breadfruit or something. 21:17:06 or something 21:17:07 Agnes the Wanderer maybe 21:17:08 :p 21:17:12 wanderer works well, yeah 21:17:15 Which ones are missing 21:17:17 That wanderer sounds cool. 21:17:23 the non 4.1 ones 21:17:25 natasha should be the servant of life and death 21:17:36 the plaything of life and death 21:17:36 wheals: +++ 21:17:47 rip rupert the nutty magician 21:17:54 Grinder, Momentarily Between Jobs 21:17:59 imo make Nikola the Nutty Magician 21:18:11 Nikola the Nutty Magician works well. 21:18:27 Grum the Hunter 21:18:44 Yiuf the Sane 21:18:44 surely if there's a nutty magician it's sigmund 21:18:48 What about Nergalle the Soulbinder 21:19:06 ??uniques 21:19:06 uniques[1/3]: Agnes, Aizul, Antaeus, Arachne, Asmodeus, Asterion, Azrael, Blork the orc, Boris, Cerebov, Crazy Yiuf, Dispater, Dissolution, Donald, Dowan, Duvessa, Edmund, the Enchantress, Ereshkigal, Erica, Erolcha, Eustachio, Fannar, Frances, Frederick, Gastronok, Geryon, Gloorx Vloq, Grinder, Grum, Harold, Ignacio, Ijyb, Ilsuiw, Jessica, Jorgrun, Jory... 21:19:15 yiuf the enlightened 21:19:17 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1euyXrHHeUNrsD--TFomeTf7Yn9FxWvs9jlCBhBwqDlM/edit?usp=sharing 21:19:20 Frances, Duchess of Hell 21:19:23 Ok, pushed stationary curse skulls. 21:19:26 Nergalle the Inconveniently Invincible 21:19:43 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1226-g2cfac19: Revert "Acquaint Curse Skulls with their inner mushroom" 10(21 minutes ago, 4 files, 5+ 119-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2cfac19f2d24 21:19:43 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1227-gf01764b: Remove M_VIGILANT 10(19 minutes ago, 3 files, 4+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f01764b7ac2b 21:19:48 -!- hypertraveller has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:52 hm, 40 ac curse skulls again 21:20:53 Blork the Orc the Orc? 21:21:01 Blork the orc just won't get a title. 21:21:03 yeah 21:21:08 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]] 21:21:08 Blork the orc is all the title Blork the orc needs. 21:21:25 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:21:34 doesn't he get dynamic titles 21:21:39 if he's poly'd? 21:21:43 i believe so 21:21:44 Ignacio the Headsman 21:21:47 so moving it here wouldn't work so well 21:21:52 well, everyone does 21:21:58 blork the former orc 21:22:08 wheals: ? 21:22:11 the unique formerly known as blork 21:22:23 !lg * killer~~sigmund killer~~the 21:22:23 202. MottledDragon the Basher (L6 OgCK of Xom), slain by Sigmund the yellow wasp on D:4 (lemuel_coloured_pillars_altar) on 2014-05-19 20:53:33, with 307 points after 1898 turns and 0:10:39. 21:22:34 Dissolution's story is about how he betrayed his society and became a jelly, correct? 21:22:36 !lg * killer~~blork killer~~the killer!~orc 21:22:37 47. tizzy the Cleaver (L8 DsFi of Okawaru), slain by Blork the centaur (a +0,+0 scimitar) on D:5 on 2014-04-22 19:50:43, with 1361 points after 5024 turns and 0:12:51. 21:23:06 !lg mottleddragon killer=mottled_dragon 21:23:07 No games for mottleddragon (killer=mottled_dragon). 21:23:08 Dissolution the Oozy 21:23:14 I thought his society betrayed Jiyva and only Dissolution remained true? 21:23:26 High Priest Dissolution 21:23:34 or 21:23:38 ontoclasm: http://imgur.com/ct4Vtvy what direction should i go with fireball 21:23:43 Dissolution the Disillusioned 21:23:56 dissolution the {{ if you.god() == "Jiyva" believer else traitor }} 21:23:59 Will TRJ or TLH have titles 21:24:05 roctavian: the first looks great 21:24:12 the Royal Jelly, obv 21:24:12 the royal jelly the royal jelly 21:24:17 o/ 21:24:22 you could just change the bursty bit to a different color for delayed 21:24:24 Oh, what are we formatting too? 21:24:33 I think the first fireball there is good because it captures the AOE feel better 21:24:34 cool, it's really bright in this room 21:24:42 i'm having trouble doing tiles in it 21:24:49 Grunt: How does formatting work on the doc? 21:24:59 reaverb: apparently we are lining them up with tab :) 21:25:53 blame me! 21:26:13 fannar the autobiographer 21:26:32 oh btw 21:26:51 !source dat/descript/monsters.txt 21:26:51 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/descript/monsters.txt;hb=HEAD 21:26:58 if anyone wants a source of inspiration to hand 21:27:13 tbh not a big fan of nikola being nutty 21:27:24 sigmund can be tho 21:28:56 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:10 PleasingFungus: Sure, not really tied to that. 21:29:14 aight 21:29:28 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 21:29:28 Go for it Coyote! 21:29:59 heartwarming to see everyone jumping in on this together :) 21:30:30 do we have any ficitional conutries harold could be from 21:31:10 australia 21:31:16 I don't think there are any fictional countries in Crawl. 21:31:23 khufu is from egypt 21:31:24 so, I mean 21:31:28 follow your heart 21:32:01 Good title for Nellie 21:32:31 Make me sad she isn't in the main game. 21:32:38 Fannar the Cold-Hearted 21:32:38 <3 21:33:09 also doesn't mara specifically quote his titles at you 21:33:17 Lord of the Tousand Isles or something 21:33:27 The ones we're having trouble with titles with should probably get a flavor revamp in general. 21:33:28 This tall demon is Mara, Lord of Illusions. 21:33:34 ah 21:33:44 Mennas, Voice of Zin 21:34:34 yesss 21:34:38 roctavian: mmmmmmmmm the irony 21:34:58 Remvoing Forgetful from Maud because I originally made it and like forgetten better. 21:34:59 oh, but his current title is quite good too 21:35:18 PleasingFungus: Maud has a title already? 21:35:35 no, mennas 21:35:46 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:48 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:27 We have two "the Forgotten"s right now. 21:37:38 (imo let Maud have it and give Menkaure something else) 21:37:42 ooh Jorgrun Earthshaker 21:37:48 :) 21:38:53 Menkaure, Prince of Dust 21:39:22 Azrael the Unbottled 21:39:23 ... 21:39:25 I wonder if erica should have a personality at some point 21:39:49 kirke the enchantress 21:39:57 couldn't bring myself to do it though 21:40:01 the enchantress, the kirke 21:40:01 but 21:40:04 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:06 yeah...... 21:40:08 o 21:40:09 6 or so left. 21:40:09 dang 21:40:12 erica, the flaming sword delivery service 21:40:12 owned that hard, I guess 21:40:17 Grunt: Feel free to change that. 21:40:55 -!- crate_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:56 Yes, I see you added an alternative. I'm assuming this will go through some other review and we're brainstorming right now. 21:41:12 pfft. it's all flavour. just toss it in and tweak it later 21:41:14 :) 21:41:14 could dissolution's title depend on whether you worship jiyva? 21:41:48 ...hm, possibly 21:41:53 calling jory the 'silent lord' is kind of weird, given his most notable character trait is 'screaming and exploding' 21:42:06 dissolution the jerk 21:42:10 the Crystal (spear) Count 21:42:17 ("Joseph, a Mercenary" is right out of 4.1) 21:42:33 Grunt: It's in a description file so probably it can vary. 21:42:41 based on if you worship Jiyva. 21:42:51 i was trying to think of something blood related and more interesting than "the Sanguine" for jory 21:43:00 but there's always that 21:43:09 i like ones which don't have the definite article, for some reason 21:43:12 not that 'the' is bad 21:43:20 it's fun to mix it up 21:43:22 Erolcha is the only one left. 21:43:29 It's good to have variety 21:43:33 evilmike: Yeah, I'm going to see if any "the" can be removed. 21:43:39 (erolcha the luchadoress) 21:44:00 Hmm, actually most of those could be removed. 21:44:08 saint roka probably doesn't meend "the messiah," he's already got a title 21:44:18 crazy yiuf too 21:44:28 yiuf the crazy 21:44:36 and serpent of hell, but its not on that list anyway 21:44:43 i also feel like the lernaen hydra doesn't need one 21:44:51 yeah probably 21:44:53 i left out an 'a' there 21:44:55 Yiuf the Enlightened is one of my favorites on the list 21:45:12 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-1228-gba99abe: Revert "Make some curse skulls patrolling (HangedMan)" 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba99abefebd6 21:45:14 maybe that could be tied to his confusion mechanic 21:45:14 if you worship xom or are confused 21:45:16 e.g. his dialogue changes when you're confused, maybe his title does too?? 21:47:49 We seem to have reached a point of relative stability here. 21:48:12 I would call it "decrasing returns" 21:48:18 sure 21:48:21 wiglaf should just pointedly not have a title 21:48:38 No Wiglaf the Dwa-- 21:48:44 Not really happy with "Grinder the Cruel" 21:48:47 I guess we can't do Wiglaf the Last Mountain Dwarf. 21:48:48 <_< 21:48:58 a REMOVED_MONS_WIGLAF 21:48:58 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:02 i always thought of grinder as a title itself 21:49:11 like, he's just "Grinder". no one ever uses his name 21:49:15 Yes it is a tile-ish 21:49:29 -!- Atomikkrab is now known as bedkrab 21:49:40 Introduce him with a "The" and then just keep referring to him as Grinder afterwards. 21:49:45 The Grinder comes into view. Grinder shouts! 21:50:05 nobody messes with the grinder. 21:50:25 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:13 Norris has a ...weird backstory. 21:51:26 norris's backstory is the best 21:52:15 Referring to the "peace-in-death cultist" flavour or his old sprite as a surfer? 21:52:15 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140524030204]] 21:52:30 Not sure about Sigmund the Nutty Magacian. Just "Sigmund" for somebody so iconic might be fine. 21:52:44 Although that is a bit too much like Grinder. 21:52:46 I'm really liking Roxanne, Geomancer Emeritus 21:52:53 nice 21:52:53 Sigmund the Dreaded 21:52:55 magicpoints: Like Roxanne too. 21:53:38 magicpoints: Norris' cultist thing, athough I don't know if his tile has changed for a surfer. 21:53:44 Sigmund the Unique 21:53:52 Heh. 21:53:53 Norris the Nihilist is what we have right now. 21:53:54 norris is psionic in 4.1 because ?? 21:53:58 the Solid is so boring for Roxanne 21:54:04 Grunt: It's good but it surprised me. 21:54:05 norris' tile is still basically a surfer, even if he's not holding a board 21:54:14 Norris the Anachronistic 21:54:26 magicpoints: Remove Solid possibility since it seemed unliked. 21:56:51 Sigmund "because it's time" 21:58:15 Yes the uniques title thing has died down pretty much. 21:58:30 Good! 21:58:30 Most of them are filled in 21:58:36 Because I'm caught up on updating the commit. 21:58:38 sigmund the merciful 22:00:11 Joseph, a Mercenary 22:00:11 Looks like a mercenary. 22:00:15 ...this amuses me greatly. 22:00:40 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:00:57 walks like a mercenary, talks like a mercenary 22:02:10 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-1229-ga0774ed: A popular 4.1ism: Titles for uniques. 10(47 minutes ago, 4 files, 299+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a0774edbfe95 22:02:23 Whee. 22:02:45 markscentair 22:03:04 lol dowan & duvessa 22:03:13 ontoclasm: oops 22:03:30 Marksalistairs 22:04:02 eb_: Heh, I came up with that. 22:05:29 disappointed at xtahua title not referring to loudness or doors 22:05:41 Xtahua's title is directly from 4.1. 22:06:21 eb_: Come up with a better title than the current one and I'll push it :D (Disclaimer: guarenette of getting something pushed is liable to the veto of other developers) 22:06:29 Xtahua the Outside Voice 22:06:31 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 22:06:35 Xtahua the Megadragon 22:07:06 I'm probably as tired as you right now (guarenette-tier) 22:07:18 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-1230-gf41e293: Typo fix (ontoclasm). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f41e2931f9f6 22:07:20 (fr: xtahua gives a randart hide/armour) 22:07:22 eb_: I'm not tired I just can't spell. 22:08:23 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:12:14 Hm. If you die while in tree form, does your ghost get the AC and so forth of the tree? 22:13:04 dtsund: Well does it happen if you die in Spider form? I doubt it. 22:13:57 Hmm. 22:14:02 -!- eb_ has quit [] 22:15:18 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:15:55 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:42 dtsund: yes 22:19:07 -!- Krymise has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:19:46 That seems not good, since such ghosts can still move 22:20:15 dtsund: Yes I saw the ##crawl-dev conversation (after you brought it up here) 22:20:20 Well they also get no EV 22:20:22 Err, ##crawl conversation. 22:20:39 There's a ##crawl conversation? 22:21:10 ...It would be weird concidence if you asked that here within minutes of Kalir asking it in ##crawl. 22:21:24 Possibly Kalir got it from you? Let me check. 22:21:25 Not really, no, Kalir was complaining about it in another channel. 22:22:02 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:19 Ah, I get it. 22:23:18 -!- phalm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:24:20 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:59 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:30:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:33:50 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 22:34:32 -!- evilmike has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:42:47 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 22:43:40 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:43:49 -!- Walker_Z is now known as WalkerBoh 22:44:49 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:36 I just thought of something. What happens of mutagenic chunks in chunkless? 22:49:24 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:49:41 bring back evaporate so you can make mutation potions again 22:50:14 I know it's not optimal but I enjoy playing mutation roulette 22:50:31 magicpoints: Nothing. You just can't eat them. (I noted that was probably bad in the original commit message IIRC) 22:50:37 !mutation should be enough. 22:51:46 Well, I guess ultimately it makes !mut more special 22:53:27 I could see spawning more !mut instead of, say, !restore abilties. 22:53:57 Well I guess people in Extended might actually run out of restor abilties. 22:54:21 well you cant acquire restab anymore 22:54:40 TODO: potion acquirement :D 22:55:06 Oh, how bad is this idea: Amulet of speed reading which make you read scrolls faster. 22:55:53 sigmund's spectacles 22:56:10 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 22:58:18 -!- zercules has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:30 d:26 Urug seems a bit late 22:59:17 rchandra: That seems really late, given that's 11 floors below where D ends. 22:59:35 magicpoints: I really want to do something with mutagenic chunks 22:59:40 but reaverb hates food with effects :( 23:00:09 make it not a food then 23:00:25 if they just have a chance of dropping !mut, that'd break the id game 23:00:29 (clearly) 23:00:32 I'd be fine I would prefer if you do note "e" them. 23:00:32 I was thinking a misc item 23:00:40 do not "e" them. 23:00:51 are there other consumable misc items...? 23:00:58 decks 23:01:02 o 23:01:04 spider bag 23:01:04 true 23:01:04 wands sort of. 23:01:16 wands are wands, not misc! 23:01:25 Oh, hmm. 23:02:20 yeah you'd end up having to evoke whatever to get their effect. 23:02:33 idk. I'll think about it 23:03:00 fr magic powders 23:03:15 Out of curiosity, why is "food with effects" bad? 23:03:33 I guess if you want it to rot you could make a new potion that doesn't generate randomly and rots like blood 23:03:40 because reaverb wants to turn food into gold 23:03:53 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:03:53 gold-like. 23:04:02 magicpoints: yeah mutagenic powder was the direction I was thinking 23:04:03 gozag's dream 23:04:10 that's the main one but it's also sort of extranous with potions. 23:05:29 -!- zxc232 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:10:01 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:10:29 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:13:30 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:13:40 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:15 -!- conted_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:17:28 -!- Patashu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:18:21 -!- Morik_ has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:18:27 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:29:05 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:21 -!- CSDCS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:35 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:44 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:41:32 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 23:45:41 -!- CSDCS has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:32 <|amethyst> !tell bh you're right, it was a griefer 23:46:33 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 23:46:38 <|amethyst> !tell bh and I know whom too 23:46:38 |amethyst: OK, I'll let bh know. 23:46:44 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:47:00 o_O? 23:47:02 Server hiccups? 23:47:10 <|amethyst> !hs akrobin 23:47:10 329. akrobin the Acrobat (L25 SpAK), quit the game on Abyss:4 on 2014-05-19 07:39:19, with 533149 points after 125959 turns and 19:55:35. 23:47:28 oh 23:47:31 rip :( 23:47:41 <|amethyst> 2014-05-19 07:19:59,162 INFO: #8330 P13579 ERR: See you soon, akrobin! 23:47:41 <|amethyst> 2014-05-19 07:19:59,176 INFO: #8330 P13579 Crawl terminated. 23:47:43 <|amethyst> then 23:47:57 <|amethyst> \2014-05-19 07:38:59,887 INFO: #8637 User akrobin logged in. 23:47:57 <|amethyst> 2014-05-19 07:39:01,489 INFO: #8637 P14008 Starting dcss-git. 23:47:57 <|amethyst> 2014-05-19 07:39:01,495 INFO: #8637 P14008 Crawl FDs: fd110, fd108. 23:47:57 <|amethyst> 2014-05-19 07:39:03,497 INFO: #8637 P14008 Crawl version: 0.15-a0-890-g6183af8. 23:48:00 <|amethyst> 2014-05-19 07:39:22,659 INFO: #8637 P14008 Crawl terminated. 23:48:53 Wow, that's terrible. 23:49:13 <|amethyst> unfortunately the relevant person was banned from ##crawl so I can't tell him off in person 23:49:32 |amethyst: Hmm. 23:50:38 Perhaps you should be able to quit robin games? At least it would force future griefers to find something to die to. (Like a hyperaccount) 23:55:25 reaverb: shouldn't? 23:55:33 PleasingFungus: Yes. 23:56:50 ??akrobin 23:56:50 akrobin[1/1]: Play an AK. Get to XL 27 without ever entering the Dungeon. 23:58:57 !lg notqw 23:58:57 102. notqw the Severer (L10 TeBe of Trog), slain by a hippogriff skeleton on D:8 on 2014-05-29 16:26:01, with 4950 points after 8497 turns and 0:00:56.