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ZZZzzz…] 00:01:25 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14.1-9-g552248a 00:03:17 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:03:40 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-940-gfc6b7c8 (34) 00:10:58 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14.1-9-g552248a (34) 00:11:15 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:09 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:15:17 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:59 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20131216183647]] 00:16:46 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-940-gfc6b7c8 (34) 00:18:38 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:58 -!- RiotInferno has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:32 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:19 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:30:30 -!- magicpoints has joined ##crawl-dev 00:37:29 -!- Kramin has quit [Ping timeout: 264 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bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:07:05 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:58 -!- Furril has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:05 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:17:19 -!- Eonwe2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:40 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:23:11 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:43 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:15 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:46 -!- Furril has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:51:54 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:54:05 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:42 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:49 !messages 08:00:49 (1/1) somebody said (4h 38m 35s ago): Are you aware, by any chance, of any issues with CLAN when you try to autologin with LastPass, but instead the page hangs? Have been happening to me lately for some reason. 08:01:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:00 Webtiles server stopped. 08:02:04 Webtiles server started. 08:02:41 Webtiles server stopped. 08:02:43 Webtiles server started. 08:03:09 !tell somebody I think that the webtiles server was glitched. 08:03:09 TZer0: OK, I'll let somebody know. 08:04:39 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:38 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:14 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:53 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:41 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:24:14 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:25:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:26:24 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:30:02 -!- Krymise has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 08:30:18 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:33:03 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:35:10 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 08:35:43 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:51 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:41:18 -!- asgalath has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:02 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:46:21 gammafunk: massive post, many thanks! 08:46:36 dpeg: np. I do wish I could have made it shorter 08:46:47 _Unable to find exit from ziggurat_pillar_centre_j 08:46:57 that bug still? 08:47:29 apparently 08:48:23 gammafunk: I will reply in a bit, just a quick one here: I think we should go in small steps, whenever possible. 0.15 will already see three major (for Crawl standards) rule changes, so let's leave it at that (only as far as rule changes go, of course) -- we can and will follow up in 0.16! 08:48:59 ok, which further change are you recommendig that we limit? New item destruction mechanics? 08:49:12 well, I guess you'll reply anyhow 08:49:16 I think disabling item destruction is small enough to go in. 08:49:21 yeah 08:49:38 I was more thinking of strategic items. Something could be done there (perhaps should), but no need to come up with a new system in a hurry. 08:49:42 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:49:43 ah, yes 08:49:48 Players are getting realy cool stuff already :) 08:49:58 Well, let find ways to kill them all 08:50:08 --Trog 08:50:21 Yours truly :P 08:50:40 Would be good to have some mid-term planning about the id-game, curses, strategic items. Will try to help with these. The other day I had an idea about kiting, too. 08:51:16 yeah, and I hope we can do some monster culling and maybe the unique thing like was discussed, as well 08:51:31 I guess monster culling has already occurred somewhat 08:51:34 ah, yes, I will propose the unique list from crate/minmay as soon as the dust settles 08:51:57 Didn't Grunt boast about 15 removed monsters and none added? 08:52:13 hrm, could be 08:52:33 vapours, shedu, pheonices, and there are more 09:00:21 yes, the holy faction took a massive hit 09:01:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:04:19 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:07 -!- e1999 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:14 -!- TZer0 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 09:14:58 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:34 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:17 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:33:27 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 09:34:40 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:35:00 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:30 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:01 Why do gargoyles keep their poison immunity in spider form, while draconians lose their breath, but keep their vulnerability to cold? 09:39:05 It just.. seems weird 09:39:26 shouldn't spider form override all such traits? 09:39:41 draconians don't keep their cold vuln in spider form anymore at least 09:39:58 wheals: oh, recent change? 09:40:09 yeah 09:40:35 but yeah, gargoyles keep their poison immunity 09:40:37 which is sort of strange 09:40:57 <|amethyst> probably gargoyles shouldn't be able to transform 09:41:13 <|amethyst> you can't polymorph nonliving monsters 09:41:23 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:41:25 gargoyles are weird, since they're not really nonliving or notnonliving 09:42:05 but are they capable... of love? 09:42:38 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: http://www.optipess.com/2014/04/07/ai-artificial-indecency/ 09:43:02 now i'm wondering whether johnny0's nick is a reference to johnny 5 09:43:11 please warn me if you're going to change that 09:43:18 since I have a transmuter which is alive :P 09:44:01 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:09 <|amethyst> I guess it makes sense to say that gargoyles transform into artificial spiders/dragons/whatever 09:44:18 well, kind of makes sense 09:44:19 <|amethyst> it's their artificiality that makes them immune to poison 09:44:25 but maybe they should be a bit more special? 09:44:30 Maybe they should be incapable of doing poison damage? 09:45:17 <|amethyst> give every form the Statue Form half-speed 09:45:45 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:47 <|amethyst> nonliving things are otherwise perfectly capable of doing poison damage 09:45:59 <|amethyst> so that would be a little weird as a gargoyle restriction 09:46:51 <|amethyst> hm 09:47:01 making gargoyles actually be like nonliving monsters would be pretty bad i think 09:47:34 nonliving monsters can't go berserk, can't drink !hw or !curing , probably a whole bunch of other weird things 09:48:08 <|amethyst> btw, you.is_artificial() probably needs a "temp" parameter 09:48:09 speaking of forms 09:48:17 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:48:29 <|amethyst> since shadow form counts as temporarily immune to poison, but statue form as permanently 09:48:33 The rF/rC mutations are cancelled by thorough form changes. 09:49:16 they're physical 09:49:39 <|amethyst> Bloax: The reason form changes started suppressing mutations was for resistance mutations, and specifically so that spiderform nagas would be rP- 09:50:30 <|amethyst> Though much of the decisions as to what is suppressed and what is not were very ad-hoc 09:50:33 <|amethyst> s/much/many/ 09:50:45 well fraility is also physical 09:50:51 don't see that suppressed by forms do you 09:51:12 <|amethyst> I think I had some technical reason for not suppression changes to HP or stats, but I don't remember now 09:51:17 Bloax: yes you do 09:51:18 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:51:23 or not 09:51:40 looks like physical and supressed are different 09:51:54 <|amethyst> yeah, the first of those (the middle bool) is for Vampires 09:51:59 physical means that it's supressed by being a vampire 09:52:42 <|amethyst> physical means it's *not* suppressed by being a thirsty vampire 09:53:00 oh huh 09:53:05 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:25 what's the reason for vampire thirst suppressing mutations, anyway? 09:53:35 <|amethyst> because undead can't mutate 09:53:59 <|amethyst> But OTOH it would be strange to lose your horns when you get hungry, hence those being physical 09:54:32 i think someone suggested letting vampires just mutate normally at all hunger levels when simplifying them a bit was being discussed a while ago 09:55:01 which sounds reasonable to me, since they're "weird undead" anyway 09:55:03 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:48 If anything that seems really strange. 09:55:59 the idea that 'they can't have mutations when they're hungry, except the ones they can have' doesn't sounds like something that needs to be kept around. 09:56:06 I haven't played very much vp, though. 09:56:12 Since vampires continuously re-become undead. 09:57:40 MarvinPA: that Vp change sounds good 09:58:45 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:59:34 <|amethyst> there may be some mutaitons that need adjustments to work with the fully undead 10:00:09 <|amethyst> s/ait/ati/ 10:00:36 <|amethyst> deterioration for example might be harsh 10:00:54 <|amethyst> I guess you can always pop out of starving though to drink a potion 10:00:58 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 10:01:26 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:01:35 well you are already a live corpse that isn't rotting 10:01:45 it'd be strange if you suddenly did 10:02:22 <|amethyst> deterioration isn't rotting though; but it is a sickness 10:05:41 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 10:08:02 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:35 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.15-a0-306-g5a3139e 10:10:35 %??-version 10:10:37 %git 10:10:37 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-940-gfc6b7c8: Improve documentation. 10(12 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc6b7c844ae2 10:10:57 FR: portals should get a colour different from darkgrey when using ?mapping 10:11:00 |amethyst: a bit out of date... 10:11:01 so damn hard to see 10:11:18 i think you can press tab or \ to autojump to them now 10:12:27 ah, didn't know 10:12:28 still bad interface :) 10:13:31 <|amethyst> wheals: rebuilding monster now 10:13:37 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:13:40 ah, cool 10:14:41 What is it with all these ghosts next to the minotaur!? What are these players thinking? 10:15:15 <|amethyst> !lg * recent place=lab 10:15:16 1012. mrbobbyg the Severer (L10 HOFi of Okawaru), hit from afar by a minotaur (stone) in a Labyrinth (labyrinth_watery) on 2014-05-21 14:53:00, with 3712 points after 7390 turns and 0:30:48. 10:15:21 -!- maahes has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:15:24 <|amethyst> !lg * recent place=lab s=killer 10:15:25 1012 games for * (recent place=lab): 771x a minotaur, 42x a minotaur zombie, 36x a gargoyle, 35x, 15x a minotaur skeleton, 14x Donald, 13x a trapdoor spider, 11x a catoblepas, 8x a basilisk, 8x a shadow wraith, 5x an earth elemental, 5x an unseen horror, 4x a wandering mushroom, 3x a shadow, 3x a sun demon, 2x a vapour, 2x an Executioner, 2x a vampire mosquito, 2x an ice devil, an orc warrior, a y... 10:15:42 <|amethyst> !lg * cv~~0.1[45] place=lab s=killer 10:15:43 876 games for * (cv~~0.1[45] place=lab): 669x a minotaur, 36x a gargoyle, 34x a minotaur zombie, 26x, 15x a minotaur skeleton, 12x a trapdoor spider, 11x a catoblepas, 8x a basilisk, 8x a shadow wraith, 5x an earth elemental, 5x an unseen horror, 4x a wandering mushroom, 3x a shadow, 3x a sun demon, 2x an Executioner, 2x a vampire mosquito, 2x a vapour, a yellow wasp, an ancient bear, a phantom, a... 10:16:13 Just go into the labyrinth, solve it in five minutes, kill the minotaur and leave. It's not so difficult! 10:16:24 maybe they died to ghosts 10:16:33 !lg * cv~~0.1[45] place=lab s=ckiller 10:16:34 876 games for * (cv~~0.1[45] place=lab): 669x a minotaur, 36x a gargoyle, 34x a minotaur zombie, 15x a minotaur skeleton, 14x quitting, 12x a trapdoor spider, 11x a catoblepas, 10x a player ghost, 8x a shadow wraith, 8x a basilisk, 6x starvation, 5x an unseen horror, 5x an earth elemental, 4x a wandering mushroom, 3x a sun demon, 3x a shadow, 2x a vapour, 2x an Executioner, 2x water, 2x a vampire ... 10:16:35 haha, that's actually funny :) 10:16:42 only 10. huh 10:16:45 only 10 ghosts :( 10:16:51 pretty easy to escape, though 10:17:04 anyway, these labyrinths ghosts are a lot of fun, I just don't understand why 10:17:41 <|amethyst> !lg * recent place=lab killer=a_minotaur s=ckaux 10:17:42 771 games for * (recent place=lab killer=a_minotaur): 241x, 29x rod of striking, 16x rod of the swarm, 13x lightning rod, 12x rod of shadows, 12x rod of ignition, 11x rod of destruction, 10x rod of fiery destruction, 10x a stone, 9x eveningstar, 9x rod of inaccuracy, 8x wand of lightning, 8x an arrow of frost, 8x rod of venom, 7x rod of clouds, 6x staff of air, 6x staff of poison, 6x a dart of fla... 10:17:46 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:17:54 <|amethyst> half of them die to its melee too 10:18:05 <|amethyst> maybe they're just not expecting something that hits so hard? 10:18:13 minotaur (04H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 53-89 | AC/EV: 5/7 04(headbutt) | Dam: 35, 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(52) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1088 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 10:18:13 %??Minotaur 10:18:19 it does hit like a truck 10:18:26 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:42 -!- Fizybubbleh has joined ##crawl-dev 10:18:58 yes, everyone is allowed to their first minotaur 10:19:09 <|amethyst> !lg * recent place=lab killer=a_minotaur s=name 10:19:10 771 games for * (recent place=lab killer=a_minotaur): 7x mopl, 7x kyprion, 6x 4tharraofdagon, 4x wheals, 4x notcluie, 4x jenzors, 4x DrKe, 4x TacoSundae, 4x raskol, 4x XLukarX, 4x sayami, 4x sanka, 3x LoliLover, 3x dmdlrnd, 3x lessens, 3x xnavy, 3x freej, 3x nkd1234, 3x flaco, 3x sleeves, 3x Mandevil, 3x moose, 3x Firebatgyro, 3x SlowGraham, 3x password, 3x tjwn77, 3x Stathol, 3x johlstei, 3x inma... 10:19:14 just had to spend 900$ on emergency potions :( 10:19:28 <|amethyst> 4tharra has six of them and he's not a bad player at all 10:19:49 <|amethyst> and I would imagine those aren't his speedruns, because why would you enter a lab during a speedrun? 10:19:53 !lg * killer=minotaur lab s=ktyp 10:19:54 2657 games for * (killer=minotaur lab): 2465x mon, 154x beam, 21x headbutt, 7x disintegration, 5x pois, 5x cloud 10:20:02 not to mention those headbutts 10:20:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:20:10 |amethyst: labyrinths usually don't take a whole lot of time 10:20:17 and contain potentially great gear for the depth 10:20:35 (hint: you need all the good gear you get get your hands on for speeding) 10:21:19 <|amethyst> !lm * lg:won lg:turns<50000 br.enter=lab 10:21:20 No keyword 'lg:won' 10:21:27 <|amethyst> !lm * lg:ktyp=winning lg:turns<50000 br.enter=lab 10:21:29 167. [2014-05-13 09:03:11] Yermak the Unseen (L13 HaBe of Trog) entered a Labyrinth on turn 10329. (Lair:5) 10:22:20 <|amethyst> !lm * lg:ktyp=winning br.enter=lab x=min(lg:turns) 10:22:22 10741 milestones for * (lg:ktyp=winning br.enter=lab): min(turn)=12602 10:22:35 <|amethyst> !lg * won turns=12602 10:22:36 1. jeanjacques the Faith Healer (L19 DDHe of Elyvilon), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-05-06 00:27:45, with 4978329 points after 12602 turns and 1:48:01. 10:23:18 They're especially quick if you manage to get your hands on a source of digging. 10:23:25 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:23:38 whoever made the the vault where the Minotaur isn't behind a door : I hate u slightly.. 10:23:39 absolutely 10:23:49 Fizybubbleh: there are several of those, I thikn 10:23:57 dpeg: most of them are like that 10:24:11 <|amethyst> !lm * gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S s=br.enter x=min(turn) o=-min(turn) 10:24:12 6 milestones for * (gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S): Lair [1244], Lab [1742], Snake [2941], Swamp [4391], Vaults [8037], Zot [10749] 10:24:16 I only saw that once actually 10:24:19 <|amethyst> !lm * gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S s=br.exit x=min(turn) o=-min(turn) 10:24:20 5 milestones for * (gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S): Snake [4370], Swamp [5151], Lair [5260], Vaults [10210], Zot [10905] 10:24:28 and he killed me since I didnt expect him to be that close 10:24:35 Bloax: I won grmo of chei for u :D 10:24:54 <|amethyst> no br.exit on that lab? 10:25:00 <|amethyst> !lm * gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S s=noun verb~~^br\. x=min(turn) o=-min(turn) 10:25:01 18 milestones for * (gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S verb~~^br\.): 3x Lair [1244], Lab [1742], 3x Snake [2941], 3x Swamp [4391], 2x D [5547], 3x Vaults [8037], 3x Zot [10749] 10:25:09 <|amethyst> !lm * gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S s=noun verb~~^br\. x=min(turn),verb o=-min(turn) 10:25:10 Extra fields (x=min(turn),verb) contain non-aggregates 10:25:21 <|amethyst> !lm * gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S s=verb,noun verb~~^br\. x=min(turn) o=-min(turn) 10:25:22 18 milestones for * (gid=jeanjacques:cdo:20130405223944S verb~~^br\.): 6x br.end (Lair [1934], Snake [3517], Swamp [4698], Vaults [8750], D [10476], Zot [11519]), 5x br.exit (Snake [4370], Swamp [5151], Lair [5260], Vaults [10210], Zot [10905]), br.mid (D [5547]), 6x br.enter (Lair [1244], Lab [1742], Snake [2941], Swamp [4391], Vaults [8037], Zot [10749]) 10:25:57 I had a question for you dpeg about removing of weight. Did you guys think of what ul do with evokables? 10:26:26 <|amethyst> Fizybubbleh: I think the 52-item limit is still relevant there, since evokers don't stack 10:26:38 Since part of what limited the amount of evokables I had on me at a time was weight more then 52- item slot 10:26:59 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:27:10 stuff like Phial 10:27:14 Losing 10 inventory slots in exchange for a solid backbone of them is quite expensive. 10:27:29 <|amethyst> Fizybubbleh: phial is two and a half potions 10:27:40 10 aum if i remember 10:27:43 <|amethyst> yes 10:27:55 <|amethyst> which matters for deep elves and spriggans, but not for minotaurs 10:27:56 Fizybubbleh: the weight restriction and the item cap restriction are not quite equivalent, but the latter does a much better job than the former. 10:28:57 |amethyst: and not at all for ^cheites 10:29:11 -!- morik has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:29:30 unless you are carrying 40 rations and 25 potions of curing 10:29:34 in which case you can just drop some 10:30:05 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:30 <|amethyst> I worry more about players carrying a lot more swap weapons than before 10:30:44 <|amethyst> swap armour maybe not so much because you have to wait for a respite to switch 10:31:02 <|amethyst> but probably the item limit is enough there 10:32:12 Its gonna introduce a lot of options that werent there perviously like the ability to carry around sets of heavy armour. 10:32:13 generally it's not relevant to have more than 3 weapons 10:32:20 it can be 10:32:22 -!- notcluie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:32:25 holy wrath, venom, types 10:32:33 I didn't say it "couldn't be" 10:32:42 but rather that it generally isn't, so it's not really a problem 10:33:07 but thats what I mean that option might be much more accessible 10:33:07 now 10:33:22 Since part of the reasons I couldnt have a weapon for several enemy types was weight. 10:33:26 it's not much more accessible, since it's largely irrelevant 10:33:56 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:34:15 why was it irrelevant in ur opinion? 10:34:19 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:56 it's irrelevant because it's rarely useful to have more than a few different weapons 10:35:00 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:32 U could have dragon slaying for draconians, holy wrath for cursed toes and any undead enemy in zot, and like freeze for orbs of fire 10:35:51 That is something I myself would try first thing in weightless 10:35:54 <|amethyst> Fizybubbleh: except you're probably only going to enchant one up to +9 10:35:55 an example that starts with dragon slaying? 10:36:10 <|amethyst> Fizybubbleh: and that one is probably better or nearly as good against the "off" monsters 10:36:21 Well I used polearms for two of my wins 10:36:22 -!- axecop has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:12 and i only played 70 games and only 4 wins I admit but I used polearms in most of them and I wanted to use several different types but weight always prevented me 10:37:41 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:37:41 If players want to waste inventory slots with weapons that they don't really need, I don't think that's a problem 10:37:46 -!- notclvie has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:56 is like 9+ equivalent to 75% bonus damage? 10:39:03 it's just better to have wide-ranging disucssions like this (especially if you're trying to learn about the game) in ##crawl or on tavern 10:39:13 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:39:54 Very well it was just more of a concern with a change that I wanted to voice directly to you guys I apologize.. 10:40:14 gammafunk: if strategic items get special treatment, we will need to rethink the cap -- but not for 0.15, I hope :) 10:40:34 the slot cap? 10:40:36 -!- surprisetrex has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:42 as in 52? 10:40:49 Fizybubbleh: We are worried about some effects of weightless (for example large rocks and corpses) -- carrying many weapons is not one of them. 10:40:53 gammafunk: yes 10:41:00 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:41:00 yeah, and I agree it can wait 10:41:19 <|amethyst> and carrying many evokers is not one of them because most characters can already do that 10:41:25 I was imagining some kind of other interface, since there's the 52 upper/lower letters things 10:41:30 weightless and especially chunkless will have various repercussions, best to stick with 'em for a bit 10:41:35 but I guess lots of interfaces are possible 10:41:37 |amethyst: indeed 10:43:02 <|amethyst> dpeg: my suggestion would be "use strategic items immediately on pickup" 10:43:14 <|amethyst> if you don't want to use it now, that's what ctrl-f later is for 10:43:39 <|amethyst> I guess that would be a nerf to labs, bazaars, etc 10:44:30 <|amethyst> wheals: 10:44:33 Monster stats Crawl version: 0.15-a0-940-gfc6b7c8 10:44:33 <|amethyst> %??-version 10:44:41 yay! 10:44:45 Statue of Wucad Mu (048) | Spd: 6 (07stationary) | HD: 20 | HP: 80 | AC/EV: 12/1 | 11non-living, evil, !sil, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy | XP: 1084 | Sp: brain feed, drain magic, confuse, shadow creatures | Sz: Large | Int: high. 10:44:45 %??statue of wucad mu 10:44:52 silver statue (168) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 670 | Sp: sum.minor demon, sum.demon | Sz: Large | Int: high. 10:44:52 %??silver statue 10:45:56 No, wheals. You are the statues. 10:45:57 <_< 10:46:25 Grunt: does "_Unable to find exit from ziggurat_pillar_centre_j" have to do with the minivault changes you made? 10:46:41 Uh, sounds like it. 10:47:26 I guess I should exempt subvaults / unrand vaults from that check. 10:48:52 <|amethyst> I don't know if exempting unrand vaults makes sense 10:49:02 probably most of those aren't minivaults anyway 10:49:07 -!- Cheburashka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:49:10 which is why this wasn't noticed i guess 10:49:11 |amethyst: yes, that's an interesting option 10:49:30 hm, I guess we have serial minivaults that only place as unrand 10:50:15 <|amethyst> also, this "centered" tag is an Americanism :) 10:50:35 <|amethyst> Grunt: I was thinking just flag the zig minivaults as no_exit? 10:50:48 Probably. 10:50:50 (no_exits) 10:50:56 <|amethyst> err, yeah 10:51:00 hm 10:51:07 -!- enygmata has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:08 <|amethyst> (how to avoid typos like that?) 10:51:27 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:33 <|amethyst> (can't spell-check tags because things like zigs use ad-hoc tags like "centered") 10:53:07 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:39 It seems like people are not very well-receiving of quality of life improvements. 10:54:40 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:55:21 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-941-g6f877a7: Don't corrode spectral weapons (again) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f877a7c7aa6 10:55:21 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-942-g20a0fee: Remove a breakpoint for missile gifting from gods 10(37 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20a0feea4c13 10:55:23 Bloax: which one? 10:55:24 dpeg: nonglacial health regeneration 10:56:19 I'd say that regeneration changes have stronger balance effects than weightless. 10:56:57 depends on the amount of kiting 10:57:13 in which case it's still a quality of life improvement since you'd have to kite for a shorter amount of time 10:57:16 kiting is a separate problem that needs it own solution 10:57:49 hehe 10:57:54 <|amethyst> I was actually going to suggest 10:58:02 well in that case then increasing health regeneration a bit won't do squat 10:58:04 <|amethyst> increasing regen rates when no monsters are around 10:58:10 <|amethyst> which doesn't affect kiting at all 10:58:31 <|amethyst> (assuming you have adequate hysteresis) 11:00:08 |amethyst: [quote]exponential growth of regeneration[/quote] 11:01:10 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140518030203]] 11:03:22 vatarom (L2 DrIE) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Abyss:1) 11:03:22 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14.1-9-g552248a 11:04:17 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]] 11:06:13 -!- kramin42 has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:06:55 -!- mopl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:13:07 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:49 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:58 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:35 -!- PleasingFungus_ is now known as PleasingFungus 11:23:07 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:25:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:27 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:29:06 -!- radinms has quit [] 11:30:55 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 11:31:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:33:59 -!- notcluie is now known as notclvie 11:34:21 -!- notclvie is now known as notcluie 11:35:12 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:44 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:07 -!- ActinalWhomp has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:41:22 -!- notcluie is now known as notclvie 11:44:04 -!- Zephryn has quit [Quit: Jackdaws love my big sphinx of quartz. 123456890] 11:45:00 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:34 -!- enygmata has joined ##crawl-dev 11:49:07 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:52:29 -!- Remove-Mummies-N has quit [Client Quit] 11:57:30 How to develop for Crawl: play, find oddd edge cases, push fixes for them <_< 11:57:47 (I can safely say that I never thought I'd find myself playing in such a way that this would be a thing:) 11:57:59 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-943-ge03bf5a: Let needles of frenzy wake up and thus affect sleeping enemies. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e03bf5a60aae 11:58:07 !whereis grunt 11:58:07 No where information for grunt. 11:58:26 !locate Grunt 11:58:27 Grunt was last seen on CBRO (SGrunt, L11 SpSk of Gozag). 12:00:06 Grunt: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player.cc;h=69ee59f5978fa421f3e4a7a740899e4f631ae91a;hb=HEAD#l1309 12:00:14 pls fix odd edge case 12:00:39 also damn why is that so long 12:01:13 probably should've used !source player.cc:1309 12:01:16 <|amethyst> you can cut off all but the first seven or eight chars (enough to be unambiguous) of the commit hash 12:01:30 <|amethyst> http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player.cc;h=69ee59f;hb=HED#l1309 12:01:46 maybe it could just use a stepdown function instead 12:02:50 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14.1-9-g552248a 12:03:44 can't it just be "int rr = you.hp_max / 3 >= 20 ? you.hp_max / 6 + 10 : you.hp_max / 3" 12:04:13 and if you're feeling really radical it could just be "int rr = you.hp_max / 3 + 10" !!! 12:04:35 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-943-ge03bf5a (34) 12:06:48 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-943-ge03bf5a (34) 12:07:55 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-944-gf1caba6: Make needles of sleep do something again (bmfx). 10(69 seconds ago, 2 files, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1caba60366a 12:09:42 Bloax: wait, your first suggested change is exactly the same as the current behavior, as far as I can tell? just with more repeated code 12:09:46 idgi 12:10:18 PleasingFungus: it's the exact same thing except in one line 12:10:30 why is it better that it's in one line 12:11:13 I mean I'd agree with un-nerfing regen for high-hp races, that seems unnecessary and annoying 12:11:22 because what is this: rr = 20 + ((rr - 20) / 2); 12:11:45 Bloax: it's the first 20 points of regen, plus half of the regen after that 12:11:52 it's an idiom that shows up across the codebase 12:12:12 sounds easier to parse than a logical function 12:12:24 and a bit of simple arithmetic 12:12:31 yes. it's less redundant. 12:12:48 -!- enygmata has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:51 your proposed variant repeats the "hp_max / 3" formula twice and arguably three times 12:13:47 so if you want to change it, you have to change multiple places, which could be easy to miss 12:13:47 with the current code, if you wanted to make it e.g. you.hp_max / 4, you'd have to change exactly one thing 12:14:19 basically code golfing is bad and I don't like it. 12:14:28 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-944-gf1caba6 (34) 12:15:55 There we go. 12:16:03 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:17 where are we going? 12:17:33 we are heading for tomorrow 12:17:40 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:50 haha, alerting the attacker on impact 12:18:29 classic Grunt 12:18:38 !send gammafunk !!!!!! 12:18:39 Sending !!!!!! to gammafunk. 12:19:05 That's Our Grunt 12:19:12 *theme song plays* 12:19:35 The needle hits gammafunk. gammafunk shouts! gammafunk hits the snooze button. gammafunk falls back to sleep... 12:20:21 gammafunk stabs his alarm clock in a vulnerable spot!!!! 12:20:42 You punish the alarm clock, causing immense pain!!! 12:24:46 -!- SquishMe is now known as SpongeJr 12:26:31 -!- surprisetrex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:03 <|amethyst> Grunt: hm, I think the "// Don't allow needles of sleeping to awaken monsters." in beam.cc might not be necessary anymore? 12:30:13 <|amethyst> %git c3c64e6 12:30:13 07|amethyst02 {MarvinPA} * 0.10-a0-2408-gc3c64e6: Fix needles of sleeping. 10(2 years, 6 months ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3c64e6abf90 12:30:27 |amethyst: oh, yes, probably not :) 12:30:51 |amethyst: there's a lot of code left over in beam.cc that can probably go away, actually. 12:33:53 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:34:07 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:34:17 -!- Thundamoo has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:45 Would a potion that gave you slow movement, but finesse be acceptable? [just a thought on another risk/reward potion, though it might be too similar to tree] 12:36:27 potion of double haste 12:38:27 'gotta go fast' 12:38:47 True it's similar to haste...meh. 12:39:17 potion of shrinking 12:39:45 I actually thought it was an interesting idea for a race. Naga slow, but all non-movement actions (including magic) is permanently semi-hasted. [probably not AS fast as haste, but faster than other races.] 12:41:57 Coding question: How can I prevent the player from moving? As in, prevent them from walking, blinking, or teleporting but still let them do basically everything else, a la Tree Form. 12:42:09 Devotee of Taking It Easy 12:42:37 git grep TRAN_TREE and see how it does it 12:42:41 is how i would do it 12:43:01 <|amethyst> at least player::no_tele and player::is_stationary 12:43:06 Yeah, I found this: bool player::is_stationary() const { if (you.form == TRAN_TREE) return true; 12:43:29 But adding in a || [My conditions] didn't seem to work? 12:43:49 that doesn't actually stop you from moving 12:44:01 And that would be why it didn't work. 12:44:17 Where does movement actually happen in the code? 12:44:28 [18:42:44] <+wheals> git grep TRAN_TREE and see how it does it 12:44:42 probably lots of places, main.cc is one at least 12:45:01 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:05 <|amethyst> there's also swap_check in mon-stuff.cc etc etc 12:45:06 Ah, thanks. I'll re-grep and also just check out main.cc 12:45:11 Thanks 12:45:14 <|amethyst> probably if you're adding something I would make a function 12:45:17 <|amethyst> player::can_move 12:45:18 while you're at it you can change those uses of TRAN_TREE to is_stationary! 12:45:24 or can_move 12:45:36 i imagine some/many of the TRAN_TREE checks could be changed to use is_stationary yeah 12:45:42 <|amethyst> ah, yeah 12:45:56 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:46:41 although is_stationary also implies other things like no knockback 12:46:57 which you may or may not want, no idea 12:47:19 so maybe a separate can_move would be better 12:47:32 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:48:29 is_stuck_fast_into_the_ground 12:49:55 <|amethyst> player::is_stationary is used for knockback (including wind breath), siren movement, tentacle dragging, warden seal door pushing, and englaciate slowing (?) 12:50:12 <|amethyst> so most but probably not all forms of involuntary movement 12:50:41 speaking of warden door sealing 12:51:09 i really dislike how it discourages autoexplore since you it makes you want to always look through a door from all sides 12:51:15 to check if there's a warden in the room 12:51:27 s/sealing/sealing pushing you/ 12:52:17 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 12:52:34 <|amethyst> also speaking of warden door sealing 12:52:47 <|amethyst> should tension maybe not take into account monsters behind glass? 12:53:30 <|amethyst> #8543 (and maybe #8085?) 12:53:34 what monster effects are left that can work through glass? i guess things can dig through rock glass 12:53:43 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:53 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:08 <|amethyst> they can dig through rock too :) 12:54:29 and i think there are no xom effects left that work through glass 12:54:41 ...does sonic damage go through glass 12:54:52 <|amethyst> grep LOS_DEFAULT *.cc 12:54:56 fr: sonic damage shatters glass 12:55:22 <|amethyst> probably all of those should be checked to verify that they don't really want LOS_NO_TRANS 12:55:50 don't see any glass in 8085.... 12:56:04 i changed a few of those when i realised xom had lots that should have been NO_TRANS i think, but yeah there's probably still more that should be changed 12:56:12 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: ah, you're right 12:56:23 <|amethyst> looks like Xom is fine 12:57:16 Random thought: What if there was an 'Aiming' skill, which provided the same HP bonus as fighting (using the higher skill like Spellcast, Evo/Invo do for MP)...and provided a to-hit bonus to all ranged attacks (slings, bows, xbows, throwing, conjurations)? [Just because of the people training fighting, who don't do melee and just need the HP boost.] 12:58:25 <|amethyst> Bcadren: you mean like Fighting does? 12:59:31 <|amethyst> Bcadren: I don't know if that was the case before Grunt's ranged combat rewrite, but now ranged attacks call the same attack::calc_to_hit that melee attacks do 13:00:02 <|amethyst> Bcadren: there are a few extra steps for each, but Fighting is factored in in the common part 13:00:17 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:00:38 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:00:39 Oh so Fighting is more important now anyways, ok. 13:02:58 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:06 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:13 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-945-g95b3e8d: Restore calc_to_hit determinism when requested. 10(64 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95b3e8d64070 13:10:14 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:27 Why was the unbreathing bonus removed in 0.9? [Used to be everything that didn't breath had an innate Stealth++. It was removed at the same time Grey Draconians got their bonus AC and earth Apt. I get the design change of Grey Drakes, but..it was also a mild Mummy nerf. 13:13:13 <|amethyst> :q 13:13:15 <|amethyst> err 13:13:24 :b 13:14:11 :d 13:15:19 Weird that I asked about such an 'old' change? 13:16:52 mummy nerfs :Q 13:17:01 <|amethyst> Bcadren: which commit? 13:18:12 :p 13:19:19 I don't know the commit I only know it from reading changelogs...and sorry it wasn't 0.9 it was 0.11 13:19:30 :� 13:20:35 Grunt is Icelandic? 13:20:48 still waiting for new jotunn race 13:20:52 <|amethyst> I'm not seeing anything in 0.10 that would give higher stealth to unbreathing monsters 13:20:58 <|amethyst> s/monsters/players/ 13:21:14 this is presumably another made-up change, yes 13:21:15 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 13:22:10 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=1fc6ca0b95a nothing 13:22:15 (The change shimmers and vanishes!) 13:22:25 why did they remove elms?!!! 13:22:26 I read that unbreathing used to give a stealth boost and that's what grey drackes got out of it, better Stealth apt and an immediate stealth boost, with everything else that didn't breath having one too...it might be the wiki being bad though. 13:23:45 * dpeg admires Grunt's expert unicode handling 13:24:00 <|amethyst> Bloax: we added elms! 13:24:07 <|amethyst> potion of elmification! 13:24:10 oh yeah 13:24:20 they even have unarmed stronger than trolls 13:24:23 You spot an elm with a helm. 13:26:36 <|amethyst> No match for the oak with a cloak 13:27:12 ??elm 13:27:13 I don't have a page labeled elm in my learndb. Did you mean: elf, ely, lm. 13:27:28 Xom teleports that see a unique (and then continue) do not note the unique on ^o by crate 13:27:29 <|amethyst> learndb revisionism! 13:27:35 <|amethyst> they even got to the git repository! 13:27:41 |amethyst: the bane of mankind 13:27:57 <|amethyst> %git :/\ 13:27:59 Could not find commit :/\ (git returned 128) 13:28:06 <|amethyst> %git :/\ 13:28:08 Could not find commit :/\ (git returned 128) 13:28:22 %git :/oak 13:28:22 07wheals02 * 0.14-a0-2928-g32c10db: Make costs for +fog and RMsl artefact properties. 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=32c10dbb154c 13:28:30 <|amethyst> %git :/\ 13:28:30 07wheals02 * 0.14.1-4-g0f69f1e: Don't allow wielding an item that's too large while transformed. 10(2 days ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f69f1eb2bc0 13:28:32 ah, cloak 13:30:37 oh, I was wondering 13:31:07 PleasingFungus: now we do too 13:31:25 -!- ldf2866 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:41 yes i was wondering when lines 1309 and 1310 are removed from player.cc 13:34:54 dpeg Curious did the idea of the Overactive Ballistomycete start as a statue that repeatedly LRD's itself until it blows up? Because practically it's the same thing. 13:35:11 Bloax: you can stop repeating that over and over now, thanks 13:35:20 thanks 13:35:25 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:48 Bcadren: no, not at all 13:35:55 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 13:35:57 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:19 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:11 dpeg I briefly considered a god of statues for a bit and just realized in practicality it'd be a reflavoured fedhas that allowed digging and had no use for corpses. Heh. 13:44:24 yes, god design space is getting full these days 13:45:28 (we still have six slots!!! <_< >_>) 13:48:05 I still like the idea of a god or race that's focus is traplaying. Be it Tomb-like traps or Webtraps. Though people would complain that such athing pushs kiting even more than Fedhas does. (Yes, could be used thatway, but I don't see that as such a bad thing). 13:48:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:47 dpeg: you have a lot of good god ideas actually :D 13:52:09 good god! 13:52:14 dpeg god 13:52:33 I have a secret god idea but I want to straighten it out a little more before putting it in the open. 13:52:51 secret god? 13:53:01 no, sadly 13:53:05 though that would be a cool god 13:53:15 secret door god 13:53:30 -!- somebody has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:53:31 as the chef god is for chunks, so the secret door god is for hidden doors 13:53:55 close doors that monsters can't even find! 13:54:12 Grunt: we also have still lots of ideas! 13:54:37 PleasingFungus: all of these ideas can be merged into the Nostalgia God 13:54:47 PleasingFungus: what is the idea_ 13:55:21 basically it's a no-backtracking god. "no stairdancing" conduct 13:55:22 -!- CSDCScripter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:25 PleasingFungus: a really solid foundation (no joking here) 13:56:33 ty 13:56:50 PleasingFungus: at the very least, this will be a rare randgod conduct, but I am sure you can make a decent normal god out of it 13:57:01 it's a very tough conduct, and so needs to have really nice benefits to make up for it. like chei, but for speedrunners 13:57:12 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:58:02 -!- hurdos has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:58:19 sure 14:00:43 half the trick is coming up with good benefits that are thematic and don't duplicate benefits given by other gods (which is pretty tricky, at this point) 14:00:46 the other half is tomb 14:00:58 seriously don't know what to do about tomb. need to think about it more 14:01:41 <|amethyst> you could make it about known stairs 14:01:50 <|amethyst> so you get a few chances for most levels 14:01:51 yeah, there's two variants of the conduct. 14:01:53 <|amethyst> but can't leave a branch 14:02:02 |amethyst: yes, that is a really good mechanic 14:02:13 I'm considering moving this post to GDD; I think it's a complete of enough concept now. A race that's gimmick is Wild Magic and the inability to change. https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12334 I think it's good at this point. 14:02:26 of course, there is always the question what the penalty for breaking the conduct should be 14:02:34 penance seems obvious 14:02:41 <|amethyst> penalty? 14:02:48 <|amethyst> simply don't allow it without abandoning first 14:02:52 <|amethyst> then wrath 14:03:44 yeah, excommunication might be a more appropriate penalty than simple penance. not sure 14:03:49 <|amethyst> I guess we're not necessarily friendly enough with dungeon generation to do that :) 14:04:02 <|amethyst> I'm thinking Orc 14:04:08 yeah, just thought of orc 14:04:52 <|amethyst> it's traversible taking each stair at most once, but I don't think you can discover the path taking each stair at most once 14:04:57 re stair conduct: there's the weaker version which is "can't take the same stair more than once", and the stronger version which is "can't visit the same level more than once". I'd been thinking about starting with the weaker one and moving to the stronger one at *** or ****, but maybe that just doesn't work at all with crawl's level design 14:05:15 <|amethyst> how would branches work? 14:05:33 <|amethyst> You have to be able to take the exit stair once, even though it matches the entry 14:05:48 whenever the stronger conduct was enforced, you'd get a high-piety-cost power that would transport you to the start of (the current? a chosen?) entrance 14:06:08 also probably it'd take a long time, to discourage using it for escapes - 10 turns, maybe? 14:06:42 could make it "no going up if there's an unvisited stair connected to where you are" 14:07:01 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: well, orbrun too :) 14:07:10 oh 14:07:15 I guess orbrun would have to disable that (and the conduct) 14:07:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: what happens if you used up all three stairs on the way down 14:07:23 clearly abuse orbrun to clear tomb 14:07:40 hm 14:08:48 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:09:15 There are really more versions to it: for example, cannot backtrack until you reached branch end. There's enough flexibility in the conduct to make it work, imo. 14:09:23 sure 14:10:34 anyway, I'll probably slap something up on devwiki once I've gotten it a little more polished. 14:10:39 thanks to everyone for the feedback! 14:12:54 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:26 elfrobin conduct!!! 14:14:30 -!- zxc232 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:48 may I ask , what benefit would out weight not going up stairs? 14:17:51 well, what benefit outweighs 'not being able to walk away from enemies'? 14:18:03 or toward them, a lot of the time 14:18:10 well up stairs protects u from summons aswell 14:18:16 since u get to wait them out 14:18:19 (+15 to all stats and time-bending abilities?) 14:18:22 (<_<) 14:18:28 ... 14:18:30 Grunt: something on that tier, yes! 14:18:39 !send wheals !!! 14:18:39 +15 to all skills 14:18:39 Sending !!! to wheals. 14:18:47 okay :D something thats not been done before 14:18:52 wheals: only if you curse all your equipment? >_> 14:18:59 I mean, I said earlier that it'd be 'chei for speedrunners', which is a funny phrase but also clearly the sort of level of benefits the god would have to give. 14:19:08 "grunt i won ash and chei dont be mean to me " 14:19:21 !polytheist 14:19:22 Unwon gods for Grunt: Gozag 14:19:23 is that similiar to the speed god idea? 14:19:24 (rip) 14:19:27 -!- zxc232 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:21:07 -!- bonghitz has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:08 the inverse in that a god would have to have huge drawbacks to give free speed 14:21:53 So sp like speed for ur race inexchange for losing the ability to climb aswell 14:22:03 I wasn't thinking of doing speed powers 14:22:09