00:00:12 <|amethyst> it only throws the exception if (!crawl_state.need_save) 00:00:37 <|amethyst> if crawl_state.need_save is true, it dies 00:00:54 it only throws it or it only catches it? 00:01:08 <|amethyst> see _short_read in tags.cc 00:01:22 <|amethyst> if (!crawl_state.need_save) 00:01:22 <|amethyst> throw short_read_exception(); 00:01:26 <|amethyst> die_noline("short read while reading save"); 00:01:39 yeah, I see it now. 00:01:40 <|amethyst> was that the error you got? 00:01:44 yep 00:03:42 <|amethyst> and need_save really means "there's a game" 00:03:50 good name 00:04:01 <|amethyst> well, if you are playing, you need to save 00:04:35 <|amethyst> and if you're dead or haven't started yet, you don't :) 00:04:55 <|amethyst> so there could be another flag for "loading ghosts" 00:05:37 it would be quite a lot simpler just to check the file size in load_ghost, if there was any way to get that information 00:05:48 where's the interface for reader? you mentioned that the file handle is a private field 00:06:06 <|amethyst> tags.h 00:06:31 <|amethyst> reader can read from things other than just a file 00:07:19 <|amethyst> hmm 00:07:35 <|amethyst> I think valid() would be false if you were reading from memory 00:07:47 <|amethyst> because _read_offset < _pbuf->size() is false when they're both zero 00:07:53 <|amethyst> but with a file, it check feof 00:07:55 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-890-g6183af8 (34) 00:08:00 <|amethyst> which is only true after you try to read 00:08:09 can we read 0 bytes 00:08:23 <|amethyst> no, but I wonder if there's a good place to read one byte and ungetc 00:09:12 not sure I understand 00:09:24 we can't read any bytes from a 0-byte file, surely? 00:09:54 <|amethyst> if you read past the end of file (including reading from a zero-byte file) you get a EOF 00:10:06 <|amethyst> the problem is, if it wasn't zero-byte, you just read something 00:10:19 <|amethyst> but ungetc can put back one read character and allow it to be read again 00:11:20 so... before or in checking ghost file validity, read one byte, check if it's EOF, then unget if not? 00:11:52 -!- Bamboomancer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:12:25 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: even in reader::valid 00:12:40 <|amethyst> only in the _file case 00:12:56 <|amethyst> since the _pbuf case already returns false on zero-byte buffers 00:13:13 sure. that seems to be the intended behavior 00:13:35 Are artifacts suppose to be able to get one letter names 00:13:53 not unless it's in the list of names, I'd think. don't short names get ploggified? 00:14:04 I think I saw a "Z" a while back 00:14:40 <|amethyst> yes 00:14:47 <|amethyst> that is one of the joke weapon names 00:14:55 it's for zorro 00:15:03 <|amethyst> Z X and Q are possible 00:15:06 ?/bung 00:15:07 Matching entries (1): dieselteamideas[33]: team randart weapon: LEVITICUS BUNG X 00:15:19 <|amethyst> also "With Two Names" 00:15:26 <|amethyst> and "Thing" 00:15:37 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:15:43 giant's toothpick 00:15:46 <|amethyst> !source dat/database/rand_wpn.txt:1472 00:15:46 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/database/rand_wpn.txt;hb=HEAD#l1472 00:16:14 wait wait wait wait wait. |amethyst. if we're doing this change in reader::valid.... 00:16:21 <|amethyst> btw, "Skybugg" is one of the possible outputs of the random name generator 00:16:39 there's also "Mud Pie of Death" 00:17:09 |amethyst: then we can just do file_size(_file) 00:17:14 !lg * kaux~~bug s=kaux 00:17:14 One game for * (kaux~~bug): the +9,+4 mace of the Pill Bug {elec, rF- Int+1} 00:17:18 !!!! 00:17:40 surprised that starlight is a joke name 00:17:42 !lg * kaux__bugg s=kaux 00:17:42 No keyword 'kaux__bugg' 00:17:47 !lg * kaux~~bugg s=kaux 00:17:48 No games for * (kaux~~bugg). 00:17:50 noo 00:18:31 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-890-g6183af8 (34) 00:18:58 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I am a little wary of that, because of file-like things like pipes 00:19:16 wait, are pipes _files 00:19:39 :( 00:20:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:20:29 <|amethyst> I have no idea whether other things would break anyway if you tried 00:20:42 <|amethyst> but, yes, you can open a pipe on a FILE* 00:20:48 <|amethyst> also stdin/stdout are FILE* 00:20:56 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:20:58 I wonder what file_size() would do to them 00:22:33 looks like it probably returns 0 size, which is not ideal 00:22:38 Experimental (weightless) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-893-gd45f565 00:22:39 <|amethyst> I think usually zero but I'm not sure if that's required 00:22:49 just the kind of unpredictable behavior I love 00:24:03 Webtiles server restarted. 00:25:15 -!- Markaz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:26:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: actually, forget all this 00:26:35 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: what's even easier 00:27:02 oh. I actually just implemented a solution in reader::valid() 00:27:03 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: give reader a boolean flag that says "throw short_read_exception instead of dying, even if a game is in progress" 00:27:55 that seems kind of clunky 00:28:17 mainly because it's trying to patch up a mechanism that operates on global state 00:28:50 !learn edit weightless[1] s/cszo/cszo & cbro/ 00:28:50 weightless[1/2]: An experimental branch on cszo & cbro where all items aside from large rocks cause no burden for the player; likely will be modified so that you can carry a fixed number of rocks based on str, with all burden states being removed. 00:29:03 <|amethyst> It's more a way of saying "the thing I'm trying to read isn't mission-critical" 00:29:23 <|amethyst> because right now reader assumes that, if a game is in progress, you must be reading the save and that is mission-critical 00:29:40 sure. it's not a wrong solution 00:30:04 but I think it's also right that valid() should give the right answer when looking at a 0-byte file 00:30:09 <|amethyst> yeah 00:30:13 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:19 <|amethyst> it will require testing though 00:30:40 yeah :( 00:30:57 <|amethyst> this also affects zero-byte des cache files 00:31:03 <|amethyst> it might be a good thing actually 00:31:11 three rights make a left 00:31:17 <|amethyst> but 00:31:26 <|amethyst> you should see what happens both with and without your patch 00:31:41 <|amethyst> when you truncate a file in the des cache to zero bytes 00:32:21 ok. where's the des cache? 00:32:52 <|amethyst> saves/des/ 00:32:56 <|amethyst> one of the .dsc files 00:33:49 You can also just delete the entire /des/ folder. 00:34:11 <|amethyst> reaverb: we care what happens when it finds a zero-byte file 00:34:11 reaverb: no 00:34:14 yeah 00:34:20 ok. where should I expect it to crash 00:34:23 <|amethyst> reaverb: since that is the behaviour PleasingFungus is changing 00:34:25 PleasingFungus: Oh, oops, sorry. 00:34:27 actually, why don't I test without the patch 00:34:32 first 00:34:40 |amethyst: Yes, ok, that makes sense, wasn't thinking. 00:35:15 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:31 <|amethyst> You should try truncating a .sec, starting a new game, placing one of the maps that should be in that file, saving, and checking if the file is still zero bytes 00:35:40 <|amethyst> s/\.sec/.dsc/ 00:35:58 wait, .sec or .dsc? 00:36:01 oh 00:36:02 <|amethyst> .dsc 00:36:04 ok 00:36:12 <|amethyst> see the corresponding .des file for a list of vaults 00:36:18 <|amethyst> and &L to place 00:37:07 huh 00:37:31 did that. without patch, the relevant file seems to be still 0 bytes - is that expected? 00:37:39 I'm not sure what behavior I'm looking for here 00:37:44 <|amethyst> was it able to place the map? 00:37:48 yes 00:37:55 <|amethyst> which file was it? 00:38:04 entry_large.dsc 00:38:14 <|amethyst> you're in trunk, right? 00:38:22 yes, but not 100% up to date 00:38:25 give me a sec to rebase 00:38:26 weird. I added 'weightless', did a restart on cbro webtiles, but I can't see wheals's game. rotatell is announcing it, but the watchlink doesn't work when I click it 00:38:37 ^whereis wheals 00:38:37 wheals the Basher (L9 OgAs), a worshipper of Fedhas, is currently on D:7 after 8692 turns. 00:38:41 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: not pre-0.14 though 00:38:48 no, not quite that old 00:38:49 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: entry_large doesn't exist anymore 00:38:50 :) 00:38:58 o 00:39:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: it's arrival_large now 00:39:01 ^players 00:39:01 rodrick (L16 @ Spider:5, T:38811), shobalk (L16 @ Shoals:5, T:47039), porpoise (L11 @ D:10, T:9441), tizzy (L11 @ D:10, T:11722), wheals (L9 @ D:7, T:8938), superterranean (L4 @ D (Sprint), T:368) 00:39:12 that would explain why removing the file and replacing it with a 0-byte file didn't do anything 00:39:16 'oops' 00:39:30 both wheals and superterranean aren't showing up in the lobby 00:39:59 <|amethyst> then something like &Lroderic_lyre 00:40:08 ^players 00:40:08 rodrick (L16 @ Spider:5, T:38982), shobalk (L16 @ Shoals:5, T:47074), porpoise (L11 @ D:10, T:9586), tizzy (L11 @ Orc:2, T:12160), wheals (L9 @ D:8, T:9075) 00:40:20 <|amethyst> johnstein: what are they playing? 00:40:31 not sure. how can I tell? 00:40:34 <|amethyst> johnstein: do you need to restart the inotify daemon after adding a new game type? 00:40:37 wheals are you playing console? 00:40:39 I just did 00:40:40 yep 00:40:49 <|amethyst> oh 00:40:56 |amethyst: that is, I just restarted inotify 00:41:08 oh 00:41:09 <|amethyst> did you restart the webserver? 00:41:21 restarting webtiles won't affect console games 00:41:35 yea. to refresh the cbro webtiles page 00:41:36 <|amethyst> yeah, and webtiles doesn't see games that were already running when it started 00:41:44 ok. cool. so this is a known issue 00:42:00 <|amethyst> yeah 00:42:06 <|amethyst> not sure if webtiles-changes addresses that 00:42:17 I could have tried testing it but I hit a brick wall 00:42:26 well. felt like brick to me 00:42:53 ok, placing the vault (without even saving) regenerates the relevant cache. 00:42:54 -!- markas_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:42:56 checking with patch. 00:43:33 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:40 with patch... it complains about "short read while reading save" when I attempt to start a new game (with the 0-byte .dsc). which I assume is what you were afraid of? 00:45:57 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: what's your code for valid()? 00:46:24 -!- Red_Bucket has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:46:45 http://sprunge.us/eRBN 00:48:18 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:25 to preserve the single-line semantics, I guess you could pull out the fgetc/ungetc into a small separate function 00:48:51 if (_file && !feof(_file) && !_at_eof(_file)) || ... 00:49:31 I hope this is the appropoate room, but can anyone point me to a complete change log? I'm trying to find recent tile changes and item removal in trunk. Some seem documented while others aren't. 00:49:41 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:49:47 markas_: https://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl/commits/master ? 00:49:58 <|amethyst> ??changelog[3] 00:49:58 changelog[3/3]: Current trunk: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=log CDO's trunk: http://crawl.develz.org/trunk/changes.txt 00:50:03 or that 00:50:09 <|amethyst> it's... exhaustive 00:50:17 oo, that's a nice ui 00:50:17 <|amethyst> %git 00:50:18 07elliptic02 * 0.15-a0-890-g6183af8: Fix magic dart having a tiny chance of being blocked by a shield. 10(66 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6183af897d75 00:50:35 <|amethyst> markas_: 890 entries since 0.14 release 00:51:08 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: maybe try it the other way then 00:51:30 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: with the flag (only set by the ghost code) that says short read shouldn't be fatal 00:51:41 sure 00:52:39 <|amethyst> might be a little kludgy, but it also has fewer repercussions to other code 00:53:32 <|amethyst> it should still throw the exception, since the ghost-loading code catches that 00:53:36 yes 00:53:46 <|amethyst> it seems like the ghost-loading code was expecting it to work that way anyway 00:53:54 Currently looking through the links, PleasingFungus and amethyst. Cursory searches aren't showing it, through my search-fu isn't the greatest. 00:54:05 yeah, the valid() check doesn't really do anything the way the ghost code is/was using it 00:54:11 <|amethyst> markas_: what are you looking for exactly? 00:54:13 markas_: what in particular ar eyou looking for? 00:54:15 haha 00:54:26 |amethyst: what would be the most idiomatic way to add a flag? there are a lot of constructors here... 00:55:12 I guess just add a public field, then add it into the list of things initialized by both constructors? 00:55:54 <|amethyst> three constructors (one is inline in the header) 00:57:36 looks like four 00:57:42 <|amethyst> oh, you're right 00:57:44 <|amethyst> two inline 00:58:15 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:58:23 <|amethyst> I guess an extra optional constructor parameter would be bad since there's already one of those 00:58:53 <|amethyst> and int and bool are easy to accidentally substitute for one another 00:59:52 <|amethyst> so, yeah, I guess a public bool member of reader; or a private with a setter 01:00:17 just gonna make it public 01:00:20 <|amethyst> arguable fail_if_not_eof should respect the flag too, but that can come later 01:00:26 <|amethyst> s/ble/bly/ 01:00:44 <|amethyst> also, these reader changes should definitely be a separate commit from the ghost stuff :) 01:00:48 yes ofc 01:00:58 didn't you notice the one I sent you? 01:01:00 :) 01:01:07 (the one that didn't work, but still!) 01:01:09 <|amethyst> oh yeah 01:01:16 haha 01:01:18 <|amethyst> forgot that it had a header 01:01:32 powerful git strategies 01:01:33 <|amethyst> I was thinking git diff of the working dir 01:03:12 help 01:03:14 ./tags.h:106:28: warning: field '_minorVersion' will be initialized after field 'safe_read' [-Wreorder] 01:03:16 _read_offset(0), _minorVersion(minorVersion), safe_read(false) {} 01:03:36 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: your initializers should be in the same order as your data members 01:03:52 ah - because it's public... I see 01:04:10 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: you could either put it first in the initializers 01:04:21 <|amethyst> or add a second public: section after _minorVersion 01:04:28 just gonna use a setter instead 01:04:31 as you suggested earlier 01:04:34 <|amethyst> haha 01:04:39 and stick it into the private section 01:04:39 :) 01:05:07 PleasingFungus / amethyst: I'm trying to find the conversation behind recent changes, if they exist. Specifically, I'm curious as to why rings of sustenence/hunger were replaced, why giant goldfish were removed, summon elemental, etc. 01:05:14 <|amethyst> �learn add oo_reasons 01:05:28 markas_: there are explanations on the relevant commits, generally 01:05:32 %git :/goldfish 01:05:33 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-230-g89cd172: Remove giant goldfish. 10(3 weeks ago, 19 files, 26+ 68-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89cd17299013 01:05:50 <|amethyst> markas_: search for goldfish then click the "commit" link 01:05:50 markas_: click on that link to see the explanation for goldfish removal, for example 01:06:06 I'm not really involved in the development process, but the assumed discussion behind this game is of interest. 01:06:10 sure 01:06:22 <|amethyst> %git :/hunger 01:06:23 07File26b02 {reaverb} * 0.15-a0-882-g24d5453: New species: Plutonians 10(29 hours ago, 14 files, 247+ 40-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=24d5453f8f84 01:06:31 wait, what 01:06:34 Heh, wow. 01:06:40 PleasingFungus: branch. 01:06:40 <|amethyst> %git :/hunger/sust 01:06:41 07ChrisOelmueller02 {wheals} * 0.15-a0-323-gf3c7235: Replace rings of hunger/sustenance with loudness/stealth in-place 10(3 weeks ago, 12 files, 62+ 51-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3c7235ddb14 01:06:54 <|amethyst> that one doesn't provide any reasoning 01:06:55 reaverb: I was wondering! 01:07:11 PleasingFungus: Yes, I'm not about to ninja in a new species. 01:07:27 I thought there was about a 90% chance you wouldn't do that 01:07:28 maybe 80% 01:07:53 -!- Akitten_Homura has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:07:55 <|amethyst> markas_: the main reason for hunger/sust removal is that they didn't do a lot for most races 01:09:19 <|amethyst> well 01:10:03 <|amethyst> I don't know if that's ChrisOelmueller's and wheals' main reason, but it would be mine 01:11:03 reaverb: question about plutonians. "can use !curing and !heal wounds to cure contaim" does that mean they still mutate at high contam like everyone else? 01:11:15 johnstein: Oh sorr, no. 01:11:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:11:26 I've tried looking, but what happened to Djinn? 01:11:33 I should have mention in the commit message they're special cased to not do that. 01:11:42 reaverb: I was wondering why you'd want to even cure contam if it gives you high mp/hp regen 01:11:45 markas_: Removed, check the changelog changelog for big changes. 01:11:52 |amethyst: _short_read() is static, which means I can't access reader properties in it 01:11:55 %git :/djinn 01:11:56 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-127-g762d21a: Remove some more djinn code. 10(5 weeks ago, 9 files, 9+ 156-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=762d21af96ae 01:12:02 hm 01:12:35 <|amethyst> markas_: in large part, their implementor and main supporter left the devteam 01:12:40 %git 474977d 01:12:44 07wheals02 * 0.14-a0-2810-g474977d: Remove djinn. 10(3 months ago, 40 files, 355+ 110-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=474977d740c0 01:12:50 %git ff5eb93 01:12:50 07wheals02 * 0.14-a0-3164-gff5eb93: Remove djinn. 10(10 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ff5eb931cb49 01:12:52 johnstein: It may indeed be the case you never want to cure contam, that might be a problem. 01:13:22 hm. none of those had rationale. must have been because there was a lot of discussion elsewhere 01:13:22 <|amethyst> markas_: lots of the devteam disliked them because they were perceived to be both too complicated (too many different mechanics going on at the same time) and too imbalanced 01:13:41 johnstein: the "demotivator" is you get rot if you explode, it probably isn't enough right now. 01:13:42 reaverb: that's what I was wondering :) 01:13:53 johnstein: Thinking of setting up an experimental? 01:14:06 <|amethyst> markas_: which maybe could have been fixed, but when kilobyte left no one felt like adopting them 01:14:16 oh, yea. maybe. 01:14:30 reaverb: I'm sorry, but where exactly is the "big changes" section? 01:14:32 <|amethyst> markas_: there was discussion about it here, anyway, but the ##crawl-dev archives are kind of big and slow to search 01:14:58 <|amethyst> ??changelog 01:14:58 changelog[1/3]: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/docs/changelog.txt - often incomplete and/or out of date, see {changelog[3]} for an exhaustive list of changes. 01:15:07 -!- Kenran has quit [Client Quit] 01:15:11 amethyst: Thanks for the history. There's a suprising about of discussion behind this game. It's pretty interesting. 01:15:23 ??logs 01:15:23 logs ~ log ~ morgue[1/1]: Use the !log command to get the morgue for your last splat on any server. (It will be autodetected.) 01:15:24 <|amethyst> the changelog.txt doesn't give any reasons 01:15:29 reaverb: are plutonians immune to mutation period? or just contam mutation? 01:15:30 <|amethyst> commits don't always 01:15:38 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:40 johnstein: Just contam. 01:15:45 Markas_: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ 01:15:58 That's the logs for this channel going back for a few years. 01:16:11 <|amethyst> except for the times cheibriados goes down :) 01:16:20 pfft, that never happens. 01:16:24 Oh yes, that's a problem sometimes. 01:16:26 !seen Cheibriados 01:16:26 I last saw Cheibriados at Tue Nov 26 19:21:35 2013 UTC (24w 4d 10h 54m 51s ago) joining the channel. 01:16:32 <|amethyst> I guess there were a few of those the past few days that I could fill in from my personal log 01:16:50 that probably wouldn't have much djinn discussion, though 01:17:09 Was that discussed in the mailing list? 01:17:41 <|amethyst> maybe a little 01:19:06 Yes, a little, basically people before 0.14 saying "this is broken". 01:19:44 20:40:33 djinnfolk, djinnpires, halfdjinngs 01:19:47 that was a good convo 01:21:53 reaverb: I'm reading the tavern thread. I guess the !hw !curing are to help mitigate the contam increase due to traveling and not killing 01:22:11 not sure if that would work well or not 01:22:25 johnstein: I'm not sure about anything about hte species. 01:22:29 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:22:36 I like the idea 01:22:43 File200 seems to have a lot of ideas a activity though. 01:23:54 johnstein: Ideally the "likes high contam but it gets too much BOOM" idea would work, but if it does not making them gets perks for low contam instead of high would probably remove most of the problems. 01:24:24 haha 01:24:26 !bug 7504 01:24:27 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7504 01:27:00 Is that on good mantis? 01:28:19 -!- omnirizo1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:46 not afaik 01:30:50 just found it while searching for djinn 01:30:54 funny bug though 01:31:31 23:31:14 Is there any particular reason Djinni don't have electricity resistance? A recent commit implies they're sufficiently airborn to take less shatter damage. Just balance? 01:32:22 |amethyst: here's a patch that seems to work http://sprunge.us/Abbi . kind of ugly but so it goes 01:32:44 idk maybe that should be a tell. w/e. if need be I can resend it later 01:32:47 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140517030204]] 01:36:14 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:36:33 <|amethyst> !tell PleasingFungus would you mind putting those patches on mantis in case I lose the URL? 01:36:34 |amethyst: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 01:36:46 -!- markas_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:36:57 |amethyst: you'd still have it in your personal logs :D 01:37:23 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 01:37:26 <|amethyst> yeah, but /lastlog sprunge can be a lot to search through :) 01:37:33 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst 01:37:33 I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE. 01:37:40 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst 01:37:40 I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE. 01:37:44 <|amethyst> err 01:38:18 <|amethyst> !tell |amethyst http://sprunge.us/EbTL http://sprunge.us/Abbi ( http://sprunge.us/eRBN doesn't seem to work ) 01:38:19 |amethyst: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 01:38:41 <|amethyst> at some point I need to go through my 10 or however many !messages 01:38:41 |amethyst: You have 10 messages. Use !messages to read them. 01:38:51 <|amethyst> yay I can count 01:39:43 |amethyst: Sorry, I still use a noob GUI IRC client that makes it easy to serach logs. 01:40:12 So I didn't realize the pain. 01:40:20 <|amethyst> well 01:40:31 <|amethyst> if I wanted to go to the log files and use grep it wouldn't be a pain 01:40:42 <|amethyst> grep Pleasing.*spruge 2014-05-* 01:40:59 <|amethyst> but then I have to switch to a different window (or tab in screen) :) 01:41:08 Hmm. 01:41:44 <|amethyst> but anyway 01:41:57 <|amethyst> I might not remember which were the good ones 01:42:08 <|amethyst> hence making the note to myself now 01:42:14 <|amethyst> and having stuff on mantis is better 01:42:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:42:52 Experimental (plutonians) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-882-g24d5453 01:42:53 reaverb: it looked interesting, so it seems worth an experimental for now. 01:43:11 maybe a bit raw for a typical experimental? at least the ones I've done 01:43:37 Webtiles server restarted. 01:43:40 johnstein: It's definetly raw, but I think we should be fine with more raw experimentals. 01:43:52 yea me too 01:44:02 I'm getting FAST at setting them up :P 01:44:14 johnstein: Maybe make a script? 01:44:17 yea 01:44:21 I keep meaning to 01:44:41 I think the bigger issue might be webpage vertical creep 01:44:43 heh 01:45:45 ??plutonians 01:45:46 I don't have a page labeled plutonians in my learndb. 01:45:53 johnstein: Well I would get rid of DCSS 0.11 or whatever before an experimental. 01:46:53 Hmm, another problem with plutonians is it's kind hard to describe all their stuff in a couple sentances. I'm sure they'll ease with development. 01:47:04 Mantis is fine for bug reports of experimental branches, correct? 01:47:38 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:55 reaverb: P) Plutonians (New Species Idea. Plays with Contam mechanic) 01:48:01 that's all I said on console. heh 01:48:21 the healing is REALLY fast for D1 01:48:26 !learn add plutonians New Species Idea. Plays with Contam mechanic 01:48:27 plutonians[1/1]: New Species Idea. Plays with Contam mechanic 01:48:47 johnstein: All that's tweakable. Hopefully power will encourage players to use them :D 01:48:49 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:58 (I'll fix the learndb entry later btw) 01:49:01 -!- rast- is now known as rast 01:50:02 reaverb: it's still not clear to me what the point of low contam is. sounds like you want to be just high enough contam to get good regen, but not so high you'll explode 01:50:22 seems like it needs a good low contam effect 01:50:34 like maybe at high contam, you are wildly inaccurate 01:50:34 johnstein: I can't say anything except I don't know either. 01:50:52 wild magic and like a -50% to accuracy 01:51:13 But the opprtunity cost always exists, you can get more contaim if you start low. 01:51:20 and at low contam, maybe you get a sort of aug effect 01:51:21 (they do have glow hunger) 01:51:59 johnstein: I'll post those ideas in the Tavern thread if you want, or you can do it under your account. 01:52:30 reaverb: I'll probably sleep on it a bit 01:52:48 johnstein: Sure, that's for setting up the experimental. 01:52:53 I should probably sleep too. 01:53:48 reaverb: someone else in the thread already pointed out that an ideal contam level exists, therefore optimal play would be fiddling with things to get that level. which seems fiddly 01:53:58 I'm trying to come up with something counter to that 01:54:11 johnstein: Well Vp have that problem too with blood level. 01:54:22 Enough varaince makes that not a problem. 01:54:31 Err, that was phrased poorly. 01:54:59 good god 9 ID scrolls on D1 01:55:19 Hmm, wow. 01:55:28 reaverb: probably doesn't help that I've never played much Vp 01:55:36 -!- palacebeast has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:55:37 or maybe it helps a lot! 01:55:51 johnstein: Vp are still fiddly, just not gamebreakiingly so. 01:55:58 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:56:43 johnstein: Hmm, could you open up your "A" menu again, I think I saw a bug. 01:56:50 (I'm the Anon" 01:56:55 aw I died 01:57:01 yes, hmm. 01:57:06 too late 01:57:29 what bug? 01:57:37 Mutation shouldn't be blue. 01:57:57 It's probably done weirdly, so it's not intrinsic. 01:58:14 Or wait, are intinrsic mutations blue? 01:58:21 yep 01:58:52 oops. 01:59:09 (I blame that !mutation earlier, threw me off) 01:59:49 johnstin: you have an ability, btw. 02:00:04 johnstein 02:00:10 overload 02:00:19 but not enough MP 02:00:21 :P 02:00:27 oh now I do 02:00:31 Oh, sorry, hmm. 02:00:56 nice explosion 02:01:05 very little dmg to me 02:01:18 johnstein: It boosts contam 02:01:31 I think the power scales up with XL, not sure. 02:01:43 wow another truckload of scrolls 02:01:51 wonder if that's part of his other code 02:01:59 Heh. 02:02:07 or else I'm just wasting all my good start games on testing ;p 02:02:10 (I looked through it and I don't think so) 02:04:19 heh 02:04:43 died. I was trying to abuse overload as much as I could 02:06:21 johnstein: Oh well, maybe buffing overload is something which should happen. 02:06:32 Also, it looks much more impressive in console. 02:07:45 -!- Rotatell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:56 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:04 heh 02:08:35 overload seems really strong 02:08:53 the first 3-4 times I used it I only lost maybe 10% of my HP 02:09:02 and with the regen so high, I got it back really fast 02:09:20 but I think I got my contam too high and maybe that one hurts more 02:09:25 since I lost like 50-60% 02:10:22 [Weightless Experimental Branch] Centaur melee weapon weirdness by tedric 02:10:22 Demigod character feels "a strange surge of divine interest" upon putting on "faith by Sar 02:13:07 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:13:20 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:17:17 Experimental (new_nemelex) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-765-g6cbc3c7 02:18:31 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:22:14 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:14 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 02:22:14 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:25 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-890-g6183af8 (34) 02:25:45 -!- JerseyFresh has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:26:48 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:44 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:34:35 -!- omnirizo1 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:36:15 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:37:01 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:42:23 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:44:22 -!- omnirizo1 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:45:01 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 02:54:03 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:15 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:58 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:41 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:17:20 -!- Perryman-phone has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 03:22:51 !function check_wieldable_size 03:22:53 Couldn't find check_wieldable_size in the Crawl source tree 03:22:58 !function check_weapon_wieldable_size 03:22:59 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/itemprop.cc;hb=HEAD#l1643 03:26:49 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29:05 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:47:44 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:57 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:58 -!- rast- is now known as rast 03:51:17 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:51:44 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 03:51:51 should lava worms be able to move freely on solid ground? 03:52:45 -!- WereVolvo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:56:19 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:57:38 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05:02 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:06:02 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:11:06 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:29 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:16:35 -!- Alexor has quit [] 04:27:57 -!- omnirizo1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:32:53 -!- Kenran has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:48 -!- Spatzist has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:37:59 -!- Quashie has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:59 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:48:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:09 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:08:18 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:09:50 -!- Nerem has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:11:49 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:29 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:19:39 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:59 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:23:00 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 05:26:29 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:28:04 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 05:29:14 -!- Crisp has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:32:09 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 05:36:23 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:36 -!- duskhorizon has quit [Client Quit] 05:37:59 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:40:27 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:42:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:56 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:26 -!- drachereborn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:45:28 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:46:02 Siren ally is really weird 05:46:19 The AI still has keep distance despite being friendly 05:46:30 also does nothing during fights 05:47:50 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:09 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 05:50:01 -!- NearlyNeutral has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:50:46 !tell johnstein it seems DBRO is back to the old version? I don't see anything helpful in the logs, it might be a javascript problem 05:50:46 edlothiol: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 06:11:49 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:27 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:17:13 Experimental (weightless) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-894-ga6bb34b 06:17:31 03gammafunk02 07[weightless] * 0.15-a0-894-ga6bb34b: Fix the wieldable weapon check for skill training purposes 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a6bb34bbaf7d 06:17:44 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:31 gammafunk: was my itemdestruction reply to elaborat�? 06:19:36 * dpeg is a man of many words. 06:19:50 I don't think so, but I do need to read it over more carefully :) 06:19:58 it's an important issue, so careful thinking is good 06:20:09 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 06:20:11 not that careful thinking is every bad 06:20:16 s/every/ever/ 06:21:16 gammafunk: when you're chased by lions, then that's not the time for careful consideration! 06:21:40 yes, but if lions were in crawl, then it would be! 06:21:46 that's true 06:22:48 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:23:07 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:23:50 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:25:36 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:40 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:26:49 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 06:28:52 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 06:30:02 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:32:14 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:36:53 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:39:17 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:39:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:12 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:44:37 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:45:05 gammafunk: i guess i don't actually know what check_weapon_wieldable_size really does 06:45:19 wheals: it's pretty silly actually 06:45:33 and for the player, there's redundant weapon check code 06:45:45 see can_wield in addition to player::can_wield 06:45:54 and only the latter is used for the skill check 06:46:09 (and the latter calls player::could_wield, but that's an actor thing anyhow) 06:46:29 the idea of that function is to see if the actor's size prevents it from wielding the weapon 06:46:44 but from what i could see, since monsters use it and we don't want them downgrading 06:46:58 the code is set up so that e.g. an ogre won't try to wield a cutlass 06:47:18 hence the player needs to perform that check only when they have a smaller size to begin with 06:47:18 mm, yeah 06:47:40 i could have spent time to clean all that up, but I opted for the easy fix :) 06:48:15 it looks to me that can_wield and player::can_wield likely should be merged 06:48:27 and then that size stuff could be made a bit more sane 06:48:36 kind of two seperate issues, but still 06:48:49 how about could_wield? 06:49:00 oh well that's part of actor 06:49:17 I think the idea there is ok: could the actor ever wield this, versus can it wield it currently? 06:49:28 of course, I think even the player could_wield method 06:49:35 has a thing about transforms :p 06:49:45 so it's just all sort of wonky 06:50:09 ah, i feel like they could be merged with a bool flag perm or something 06:50:15 maybe 06:50:17 yeah, likely so 06:50:24 if you'd like to clean up all that, that's great, but you'll have to test both player weapon wielding as well as monster wielding 06:50:35 since both use that interface 06:50:50 // Anybody can wield missiles to enchant, item_mass permitting 06:50:54 good comment 06:51:05 heh, what does that even mean? 06:51:12 ...wield missiles to enchant 06:51:15 you could enchant missiles 06:51:18 -!- HDA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:18 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:18 oh, back when 06:51:20 as recently as 0.10 i think 06:51:23 but didn't it prompt? 06:51:30 I don't ever recall wielding missiles to do that 06:51:42 no, i added ?ew having a prompt recently 06:51:46 haha 06:51:49 nice 06:52:08 very nethack; a great strategy for late game in nethack is to take all the darts or daggers you've found 06:52:15 and make a stack of like 50 (100+ for darts) 06:52:25 and then use ?cancellation to unenchant 06:52:30 to get to +0 06:52:36 and then stack them all, and enchant to +7 06:52:46 i think my tourist win had some pretty lethal darts 06:52:56 yeah 06:52:56 i was actually playing nethack just now 06:53:05 +7 darts can take down mind flayers no problem 06:53:17 and they can die to poison too, if you dip the darts in poison 06:53:18 though i read a random scroll and that destroyed my +3 shield of reflection so i stopped 06:53:35 hrm, destroyed your silver shield? 06:53:51 wonder what does that; it's been a while since I've nethacked 06:53:58 scroll of destroy armour 06:54:00 i think 06:54:07 oh wow, forgot it existed 06:54:21 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 06:54:22 tourist was my favorite role 06:54:26 I've only one three though 06:54:35 three roles that is 06:54:40 * dpeg ponders sending wheals to the psychatrist. 06:54:52 dpeg: now, about adding quests to crawl... 06:55:22 i tried a little unnethack, the interface was definitely better 06:55:29 cool to have autoexplore, too :) 06:55:33 dpeg has great ideas for quests! 06:55:56 my only wins are with vanilla 06:55:59 oh and sporkhack 06:56:04 which was a great derivative 06:57:00 yes, but it had serious PR issues 06:57:53 with lorimer treating players even worse than dpeg :) 06:58:00 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:32 yeah, I had only a few interactions with him on a forum, and he was fine, but it always seemed like a small-scale set of tweaks 06:59:37 good tweaks though 07:00:16 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:00:18 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:10 but tweaks at crucial points. most of his abrasive behavior was because he had lots and lots of discussion with the conservative RGRN people and he had been through most arguments before. so you had to bring something new to the table, otherwise you would be ridiculed or ignored 07:01:41 -!- kryft has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:41 -!- tw_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:02:31 funny to think that nethack dev would have people very conservative and resistant to change, given how inherently unbalanced nethack is 07:03:23 not that crawl is truly balanced either, but we do value balance over cuteness 07:04:07 crawl has some huge imbalances in the form of cheibladehands, (recently) lcsrocks and things like that 07:04:27 but that's okay because those can only truly be imbalanced with very specific builds 07:04:58 crawl didn't have a decade of mostly no changes (even when the devteam was still releasing, the last versions were mostly bugfixes and not serious changes). if your player base gets used to the unbalances, they start to get stockholm syndrome and fight to keep their well-known and "loved" unbalance. 07:04:58 i don't think those things are really thatmuch worse than the alternatives 07:05:27 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:05:54 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:01 bhaak: yeah, that stands to reason. I feel the negative reaction to nem removal falls basically on those lines; we've just had this weird god for so long that people become sad to see it leave 07:07:28 At least nem is getting an overhaul to remove the worst offenses 07:08:15 huh, so /lightning is not a source of light to dith? 07:08:48 I guess it's only "brief light" 07:08:49 the shadows are more harshly illuminated after the bright flash 07:09:02 s/illuminated/endarkened/? 07:09:37