00:01:13 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14.1-3-gd16b60d 00:01:35 PF: / none ? Is that allowed? 00:01:55 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:37 Oh, apparently 00:04:33 I can do floor_slime / floor_hall / none, for example, but that only gets me slime floor and elf floor 00:05:13 ??focus card 00:05:14 focus card[1/1]: This card reduces your lowest stat by 1 and increases your highest stat by 1. Only looks at base stats. 00:06:10 PleasingFungus: where does this vault place? 00:06:29 temple 00:06:37 it's a templevault 00:06:52 hrm, well an easy fix is to just choose a third type 00:07:08 oh, temple 00:07:21 hey, try that vault with &P in dungeon 00:07:27 ? 00:07:31 is it encompass? 00:07:39 oh I see 00:07:43 yes it is 00:07:53 hrm, might work with no modification 00:08:23 crash 00:08:33 (with the floor_slime / none version) 00:08:44 if it's float, have to use & L 00:08:51 oh but you said encompass 00:08:53 yeah 00:08:57 yeah it's encompass 00:09:05 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-848-g2df4b55 (34) 00:09:10 http://pastebin.com/z4GdDNt2 it's this 00:09:25 shamelessly stolen from bits and pieces of other vaults 00:09:41 PleasingFungus: heh, what you want is CHANCE: 100% 00:09:45 I guess that works 00:10:08 way to be EXTREME 00:10:13 it was recommended in one of the 'intro' guides 00:10:28 yeah it's the same difference I guess 00:10:49 until you find that vault with weight 500000001 00:10:55 nooo 00:11:23 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14.1-3-gd16b60d (34) 00:12:03 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:55 you get that floor_slime / none shows only slime floor? 00:16:35 PleasingFungus: ^ I should have said 00:16:51 -!- RZX has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:14 floor_slime / none crashes the game 00:18:23 floor_slime / floor_hall is a 50/50 slime/elf split 00:18:39 floor_slime / floor_hall / none is the same as floor_slime / floor_hall 00:19:03 sorry, I've only tested the latter two in T 00:19:37 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:35 PleasingFungus: for me, the vault you pastebinned loads ok 00:20:38 shows only slime floor 00:20:47 huh 00:20:52 console or tiles? 00:21:19 and you need to make it .O = ... 00:21:22 instead of just . 00:21:31 what does that mean 00:21:40 meaning the altars aren't getting the right floor tiles 00:21:42 oh I see 00:21:45 yes I noticed that 00:21:52 and I don't think you want 50% normal floor anyhow 00:21:56 it'll look pretty bad 00:22:01 this is tiles 00:22:17 I want some kind of mix, I think 00:22:23 to indicate that it was slimfied, not originally slimy 00:22:29 idk. I can experiment 00:22:30 PleasingFungus: well, I'd recommend doing something more manual 00:22:39 like use glyphs and scatter them in 00:22:47 at good positions 00:22:58 what you can do is make some basic contiguous shapes of normal tiles 00:23:02 and then fuzz the edges 00:23:09 using SUBST 00:23:17 it will look nicer 00:23:22 that sounds reasonable 00:23:33 what you'd have to have is like three glyphs 00:23:41 one for slime, most floor gets that I guess 00:23:46 then one for not-fuzzed normal tiles 00:23:57 then make paches of normal tile glyph 00:24:06 I changed a line to .O 00:24:08 and surround those patches with a third glyph 00:24:10 now the floor is altars of jiyva 00:24:28 Found one hundred ten viscous altars of Jiyva, a glowing silver altar of Zin and a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados. 00:24:41 and do a SUBST E = E. 00:25:04 no it's FTILE .O = floor_slime / none 00:25:13 oh I see 00:25:18 the ftile is the lineyou change not the feature def 00:25:23 you're setting the floor of the feature 00:25:44 did my description make sense, re: fuzzing? 00:25:44 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:50 I can make an example 00:26:06 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:26:28 I get the basic idea 00:26:33 not sure what you mean by "SUBST E = E" 00:26:38 E = E. 00:26:43 the period is part of it 00:26:51 50% chance of E glyph, 50% chance of . 00:27:02 assuming you have FTILE . = floor_slime 00:27:14 so in this version . would always be floor_slime, not any chance 00:27:17 sure 00:27:32 and then after that subst you have... FTILE E = none? 00:27:34 and then you'd have patches of say D with edges of E 00:27:41 yes 00:27:46 well for E 00:27:49 you don't need that at all 00:27:52 since it's the default :) 00:28:03 you'd have two FTILE lines 00:28:09 is there a specific order these have to be in? 00:28:31 yeah actually you'd only have one FTILE line 00:28:43 since both D and E would default to none 00:28:55 i usually put FTILEs and such toward the end and put all my SUBST, NSUBST, SHUFFLE, et al. lines in the beginning to make it easier to follow 00:28:55 ah, but you *do* need the one for D 00:28:56 but that's just me 00:29:04 yeah, agree 00:29:12 yeah I'm trying to do something like that 00:29:17 PleasingFungus: sorry, so that'd be SUBST E = D. 00:29:44 and I'm not actually sure if you need FTILE D = none 00:29:53 you might need that, since otherwise D will become . and get the slime floor 00:30:07 yeah, no, that seems to work 00:30:17 I'm getting a mix of slime-floor and unslimed floor 00:30:23 cool 00:30:31 yeah just a flat random application will look pretty ugly 00:30:40 you could make it less than 50% though 00:30:44 and it would be less ugly 00:30:59 so just weight slime more 00:31:00 hm, how can I make the stairs not be affected by the slime FTILE? 00:31:15 if I want the stairs to always be unslimed (since they're leading back to the unslimed dungeon) 00:31:19 FTILE: { = blah 00:31:31 oh, so I can have multiple ftile lines? 00:31:38 yes 00:32:00 ./dat/des/branches/temple.des:3286: bad spec: 'd' in 'D' 00:32:01 FTILE: { = D 00:32:06 D is not a tile 00:32:10 you need "none" I guess 00:32:10 oh 00:32:12 true 00:32:19 hopefully this won't crash 00:32:24 or floor_none is it? 00:32:37 none didn't crash but it also didn't work 00:32:48 floor_none apparently isn't a thing 00:32:56 hrm, it shouldn't be setting the stair floor tile 00:33:06 oh it isn't 00:33:08 my eyes are bad 00:33:17 !send PleasingFungus golden eyes 00:33:18 Sending golden eyes to PleasingFungus. 00:33:28 * PleasingFungus is confused! 00:33:59 so if I wanted to weight the sliminess of "E", could I do something like "D.."? 00:34:07 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:08 yes 00:35:03 and you can do weights like SUBST: E = 20:. D 00:35:14 e.g. weight number, then colon before glyph 00:35:21 so avoid too much D...... siliness 00:35:31 might be easy to lose track 00:35:33 :) 00:35:37 default weight is 10 00:36:14 hm, this temple seems kind of dangerous 00:36:18 just fatfingered myself to 1 hp 00:36:53 admittedly, it's a level 1 wizmode char. actual temple characters would probably be a little tougher 00:37:24 ...why are you losing health in a temple 00:37:33 nicolae-: slime walls 00:37:34 nicolae-: slime temple!!!! 00:37:36 ah 00:38:00 actual temple characters would probably know better than to step next to the wall, too 00:38:23 I think lg will show otherwise a month or so after this is commited 00:38:25 well, I'm not sure I'd bet on that. 00:38:31 (agreeing with gfunk) 00:38:33 Um, slow healing and no device heal are mutually exclusive, correct 00:38:45 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:38:53 Temporary mutations from a wretched star do not obey this 00:39:01 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 00:40:58 I currently have no device 1 via regular mut and slow heal 1 via temp mut 00:41:19 I wonder if temp muts ignore all mutation conflict rules 00:41:20 that'd be odd 00:41:38 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 00:41:47 http://pastebin.com/5vbktPGS trying to decide if the spiky bits I added on the dividing walls are a good touch. they do increase the hazardousness of the temple (by increasing its surface area), which is important 00:42:55 Maybe we'd have known this before now if anyone liked playing Dj 00:44:49 PleasingFungus: i think they do 00:45:02 precisely because they're temporary 00:45:37 PleasingFungus: imo as long as you can get to every altar and the stairs without the walls searing your flesh, you're probably okay 00:45:43 haha 00:46:10 yeah most of the temple layouts were actually unsuitable to modify for that reason 00:46:12 hm 00:46:19 a variant that was shaped like slime:6 could be cool 00:46:30 yeah, that'd be neat 00:46:38 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:46:39 i thought about doing a slimified temple a while ago and then never got around to it 00:46:44 PlesingFungus: You can say whether or not a mutation conflict will be ignored by temp mutations. 00:46:49 also I reproduced the temp mut thing 00:47:01 though that of course doesn't answer whether it's desired behavior or not 00:47:02 There are differant types of mutation conflicts (That nobody actually understands probably) 00:47:06 for every vault idea i submit there's probably ten that i thought about doing and then never got around to 00:47:08 yeah, I remember that conversation 00:48:54 -!- Kacy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:01 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 01:00:58 dgn-layouts.cc line 101 seems like something that shouldn't be a thing 01:01:14 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:01:48 (generating a single dead end with a chance of a shaft, on 75% of eligible levels) 01:04:48 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 01:06:22 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:43 -!- asema has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:11:09 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140513030201]] 01:13:07 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:15:54 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:31 not even sure if auto-explore will travel to the end or not 01:22:34 gamafunk: Mind if I remove it? It's either does nothing or causes acitve harm. 01:24:24 Don't listen to whatever gamafunk says; I say remove it, but be careful to test dungeon generation :) 01:25:16 I'm really not sure what the motivation for that was 01:25:17 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:25:21 autoexplore wouldn't go to the end unless there's an item on it, surely 01:25:50 Someone wanted to make a prominent location where the player could expect a shaft? 01:25:50 I don't think removing it could cause anything bad, it's just a little if-block, if anything it'd prevent bad things happening with trap placement :P 01:26:17 yeah, well don't think is nice, but I mean test some level generation with it removed is all 01:26:20 seems like if it's going to stay, at least the shaft should be known 01:26:38 since dead ends don't generate much in that layout otherwise 01:27:33 <|amethyst> it probably made more sense when there were secret doors 01:28:04 oh, yes 01:33:18 -!- ahahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:08 -!- thedefinite has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 01:35:57 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:26 -!- flower has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:39:56 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:39:56 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 01:39:56 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:55:36 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-849-g9817b29: Remove some bizzare shaft generation code (minmay) 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 55-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9817b298c425 01:55:41 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:50 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 01:56:50 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 01:56:51 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 02:04:11 can probably remove the unnecessary parameter from shaft_known() too 02:09:32 -!- Aponym has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:13:58 MarvinPA: Sure. 02:14:14 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:03 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:16 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14.1-3-gd16b60d 02:17:21 -!- Stendarr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:18:31 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 02:19:28 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:30 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:38 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:02 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:24 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-849-g9817b29 (34) 02:26:46 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:06 ??rebuild 02:27:07 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild/ http://rl.heh.fi/rebuild/ http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/rebuild/ Bug Grunt, |amethyst, or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 02:27:48 -!- fearitself has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:42 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:56 -!- rast- is now known as rast 02:29:40 Experimental (new_nemelex) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-760-g2c5affd 02:36:12 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-850-gedfd7eb: Clean-up shaft_known() (MarvinPA) 10(12 minutes ago, 3 files, 9+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edfd7eb51961 02:36:14 -!- FourHTwoA has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:36:14 Hmm, does cbro have a bot to let me know if new_nemelex is sucessfully updated? 02:36:14 -!- eb has quit [] 02:36:14 Experimental (new_nemelex) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-760-g2c5affd 02:36:14 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:24 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 02:37:24 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 02:37:25 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 02:41:26 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 02:41:26 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 02:41:34 <|amethyst> %git HEAD^ 02:41:47 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-851-g6590ef6: Fix compilation. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6590ef6419ab 02:41:47 <|amethyst> %git HEAD 02:41:47 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-852-g000f67c: Allow "none" alternatives to work with TILE: and friends. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=000f67cce8bb 02:42:05 <|amethyst> stupid bot 02:42:35 |amethyst: Sorry about the compile break, must of confused compiling before making it static with after. 02:42:53 I obviously should not be programming when I should be sleeping. 02:43:06 <|amethyst> heh, same here 02:43:26 Ha, at least I didn't write the examples to tutorial documention without testing.. 02:43:37 <|amethyst> I still can't figure out why the 'none' thing was consistently *not* crashing with three alternatives 02:43:52 <|amethyst> but was with two 02:45:14 <|amethyst> anyway, good night :) 02:45:22 |amethyst: Good night! 02:54:01 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-853-g5487ac0: Fix indentation 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5487ac093f68 02:54:04 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:55:13 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 02:55:13 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 02:55:14 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 02:56:00 Yep, shouldn't do this again. 02:56:18 Except I sort of am right now, but I'm just deleting #include s 02:56:35 hrm, any thoughts on just exactly where in the inventory screen the large rock pickup limit should go? 02:56:57 gammafunk: Maybe were weight is currently? 02:57:02 s/were/where/ 02:57:12 -!- maahes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:57:16 hrm, that code was removed :( 02:57:28 I should see how it's added, hopefully not in a silly way 02:57:57 gammafunk: Maybe no where. How often is that info relevant? 02:57:57 I almost think it'd be better to do it where wand charges are 02:58:07 (5 max) 02:58:22 Hmm, 5 max seems low. 02:58:31 that's just an example :) 02:58:36 it's str / 3 02:58:38 Oh, sorry. 02:58:50 and large species tend to have close to 20 str 02:59:22 gammafunk: Err, so spriggans can carry a couple large rocks? 02:59:22 reaverb: one way it's relevant is if you know there's e.g. a pile of rocks somewhere 02:59:22 And thow them around. 02:59:33 reaverb: sure they can carrying them! the just throw them awkwardly 02:59:57 We could place a limit on that, of course, I just want to get the basic stuff working first 02:59:58 gammafunk: Not really, you go to pile of rocks and pick up as many as you can carry. It's only relevant if you have to make a decision. 03:00:14 well, let me think about this 03:00:14 Such as if they're guarded by a monster. 03:00:44 Now, ideally the info should be somewhere, but it doesn't need to be in the player's face. 03:00:45 yeah, I mean that's my concern; what I don't want the player to have to do is to calculate "how many more can I carry" ever 03:00:55 perhaps just in the detail screen? 03:01:12 "You can carry at most N of these" 03:01:13 gammafunk: Yes details sounds fine, 03:01:28 Not sure if any other items do that though. 03:01:30 reaverb: Have to be sure! 03:01:40 Must think this through in an excruciatingly slow way 03:01:55 weapons show their handedness there 03:01:56 a - a large rock (5/9) 03:02:07 or rather, 5 large rocks (max 9) 03:02:19 Basil: only the latter would be not a pita 03:02:22 because: menu code 03:02:30 the former looks like you are carrying rock fragments, anyway 03:02:55 the reason being we make the string from the item classes' description 03:03:15 hrm, actually 03:03:15 wands must have the same issue 03:04:03 this is weird; we'd have to change the item description code so that the max was always displayed, but I suppose there could be times when a monster is carrying the rocks 03:04:59 Basil: do you think this limit really needs to be shown in the inventory menu? 03:04:59 I guess you could do it in describe 03:04:59 You've played large rock dudes; how much would it annoy you not to see the limit in the inventory screen? 03:04:59 yeah, that is simpler 03:04:59 but I'd prefer inven 03:04:59 damn you Basil 03:05:07 (also I didn't really use large rocks past lair) 03:05:25 also, where is inven code? 03:05:48 -!- palacebeast has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:21 invent.cc, but the item describe stuff is itemname.cc 03:06:21 hmm, this invent.cc file looks promising 03:08:33 yes, of course the full descript is used by the monster 03:08:46 sounds like you're having fun 03:08:52 ??fun 03:08:53 mantis[1/1]: To report bugs or submit new content like vaults, patches or tiles, go to: http://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php 03:08:58 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:09:00 how is that fun 03:09:39 hrm, maybe these ignore flags 03:09:43 if I were playing a large rock dude, I'd just turn autopickup of large rocks on and tekt them until I couldn't 03:09:51 *take them 03:11:58 also I would set everything on fire because rock men are immune 03:11:58 well, actually I'm seeing code to help with inventory stuff, so this might be easier than I thought 03:11:58 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:11:58 gammafunk: if (item == LARGE_ROCK) buff << " (max: " << max_rocks(yourStr) << ")"; 03:11:58 I take it there's something wrong with that? 03:11:58 yeah, there is but there's a way to solve it 03:11:58 you have to only do that when it's an inventory descript 03:12:07 otherwise it could potentially show up under x v of monster 03:12:27 xv shows their inventory? 03:12:33 for some things 03:12:40 like id a wand, let them pick it up 03:12:46 I'm not sure that large rocks ever show up 03:12:52 but for wands and other equip it does 03:13:07 I never see it on stone giants 03:13:08 hrm, let me see if it does for e.g. cyclops 03:13:15 yeah, maybe they don't pick them up? 03:13:18 gammafunk: test with Ash 03:13:25 ah, good point 03:15:33 yeah, never prints them even when I xo to give the stone giant the rocks 03:15:39 so I guess there's not even need to check 06:55:12 oh yeah, this will work just dandy 06:55:14 hooray 06:55:14 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:14 -!- Cheibriados has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:31 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 06:56:32 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 06:56:34 I am not an expert on layouts, but I think we can take some of hos conclusions. (About reducing weights, mostly.) 06:56:34 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 06:57:06 s/hos/his/ 11:59:30 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:30 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 11:59:31 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 11:59:34 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:59:44 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:44 -!- dtsund has quit [Client Quit] 11:59:55 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:41 potential. i'm teaching myself AWS. thought it would be a fun way to test it 12:00:56 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 12:00:56 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 12:00:56 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 12:01:07 who wouldn't want highly available online dcss? 12:01:11 <|amethyst> %git 12:01:14 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-853-g5487ac0: Fix indentation 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5487ac093f68 12:01:30 <|amethyst> sorry about the chei downtime 12:02:30 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14.1-3-gd16b60d 12:04:06 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 12:06:46 Inaccessable vault placement by twelwe 12:06:46 Two new vaults by PleasingFungus 12:06:46 -!- geedmat has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:07:48 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:14 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:13:05 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:15:23 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:36 %git :/shambler 12:15:44 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-822-gedb40d3: Remove plague shamblers. 10(25 hours ago, 43 files, 34+ 156-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edb40d360931 12:16:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-854-gcbb52e4 (34) 12:17:25 hm 12:19:10 -!- Krakhan|2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:29 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:58 -!- Kaidessa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:18 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:20 that's a bummer that retch isn't around since I was planning on using it. however, my planned use as a post potion quaffing debuff doesn't seem worthy of bringing it back. wannabe crawl dev is tricky 12:28:53 I'm still a little confused why they were removed...they seemed significant most of the times I met them; kill them to shoot at other things/keep from getting cornered, or dodge them until I find a better position. 12:30:11 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:25 same here nivim. but I've learned that just because I enjoy something, it doesn't mean it's a great feature, even if I don't always immediately understand why. it's been a slow process for me 12:30:41 probably because I haven't played as much as others here 12:35:44 I'm more surprised they went without more discussion. I would of expect at least a c-r-d email, most of the other recent monster removals were more obviously broken. 12:37:28 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:37:28 <|amethyst> I can't deal with the inevitable mass trimming slowly taking place 12:37:34 <|amethyst> let me briefly solve a mystery 12:37:39 <|amethyst> it's wheals 12:38:15 <|amethyst> (that was before plague shambler removal, though) 12:38:39 the main problem with the plague shamblers was that they were a crypt monster - I feel like they'd be a lot more relevant in depths/vaults 12:38:44 source: fighting them in depths/vaults 12:38:46 |amethyst: Where did he say those last two things? 12:38:51 <|amethyst> reaverb: in here 12:39:01 <|amethyst> 2014-05-10.log:08:44 12:39:04 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:39:11 |amethyst: Yes, I was looking for the log number, thanks. 12:39:20 <|amethyst> (those were the only two lines) 12:39:38 the other problem is that retch was rarely relevant but that could be removed without removing the actually interesting thing about them (miasma on death) 12:40:21 |amethyst: Oh, hmm, can't believe I missed that. 12:40:37 Does wheals know? 12:40:43 i saw 12:40:45 at some point I suggested removing the retch and increasing the rate of growth of the miasma so that you can't simply walk away 12:41:09 PleasingFungus: in depths sounds bad since then you can bring them around to produce miasma on demand 12:41:15 I'm not sure it would be a very interesting monster then either, but if anyone really loves the idea of miasma on death they could try that 12:41:37 at least in crypt you're mostly the only thing that would be affected by it 12:41:42 another thing that could help is putting the effect on a monster with fast movement 12:42:02 so that you can't just lead it around to someplace where you don't care about the effect with no cost 12:42:33 <|amethyst> I guess hm's complaint was probably about spen/spas? I can't imagine it's about grizzly bears 12:42:39 or a monster with a ranged attack or something... miasma-on-death could even be added to some random existing monster that needs some help 12:42:48 Hmm, Yes, maybe we should revert the removal and try a couple more things. 12:43:17 -!- Ququman_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:26 I would be against just reverting the removal unless someone actually has a plan and tests out the plan and likes it though 12:45:18 elliptic: Revert removal + Make them fast + minor HD nerf seems like a plan to me. 12:45:20 i admit that i have probably been too aggressive on removal and improvement is often a better option 12:45:31 It's not like we can't re-remove. 12:45:55 wheals: things need to get removed sometimes or we'll just have feature creep forever :) 12:45:59 wheals: I think a c-r-d email would have been good with plague shamblers, there aren't many obviously borken monsters left. 12:46:12 Removal is good but I don't think it should catch people by surprise. 12:46:34 it isn't like plague shamblers weren't discussed here several times before 12:46:34 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:55 elliptic: Hmm, maybe I feel different because I'm new and haven't seen the old discussion on them. 12:50:06 <|amethyst> 2014-04-22 12:50:06 i didn't really think of them as a major enemy... fairly rare in an optional branch 12:50:50 <|amethyst> I doubt I'd ever see a plague shambler 12:50:59 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter=depths 12:51:00 1. [2014-02-15 20:20:15] neil the Destroyer (L21 GrMo of Vehumet) entered the Depths on turn 72867. (D:16) 12:51:07 <|amethyst> !lm . br.enter=crypt 12:51:08 2. [2012-05-16 01:17:00] Neil the Executioner (L17 MiBe of Trog) entered the Crypt on turn 42435. (Vaults:3) 12:51:32 i admit that they were better than rotting hulks though :) 12:52:17 making them fast does sound interesting 12:52:28 makes the siren shambler vaults more dicey :) 12:52:51 making them fast by itself wouldn't help, need to also make the miasma fast 12:53:01 -!- thedefinite has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 12:53:04 plague shambler (07n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 67-98 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 3407(plague) | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(73), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 857 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 12:53:04 %0.14?plague shambler 12:53:22 ghoul (05n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 129-166 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 3004(rot), 30 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, 04eats corpses, evil | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 1787 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 12:53:22 %??ghoul 12:53:35 elliptic: I don't think you do, if they are fast trying to choose where the miasma goes is harder, so you might retreat from it in a nonideal place 12:54:21 rchandra: but it is really very very rare that you can't just walk away from the miasma if you aren't a naga or worshipping chei 12:54:34 fast + rot-touch seems about the right incentive to kill them fast 12:54:41 everyone likes rot monsters, right? 12:55:04 or you walk away from it and get mangled by the jiangshi 12:55:20 jiangshi (08V) | Spd: 18 (move: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 49-80 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 2705(vampiric), 2705(vampiric) | 07undead, fighter, evil, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(80), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1070 | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 12:55:20 %??jiangshi 12:55:43 alternately you could slap more damage on the shamblers 12:55:49 iirc they don't really hit that hard for where they show up 12:56:09 shamblers are like a better mummy 12:56:11 'they will kill you' is another good incentive to actually kill them 12:56:27 ("they will kill you if you don't kill them first") 12:56:49 and it's not like "huge rotting monster" couldn't justify some nice damage numbers 12:58:00 what about making the miasma cloud expand further and faster but not a perfect expansion 12:59:27 that is, not radiating in a perfect cloud. 13:00:29 I wonder how well that would work in corridors 13:00:57 hmm 13:01:15 -!- Stendarr|2 is now known as Stendarr 13:03:02 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 13:03:25 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04:29 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:05:38 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:58 -!- Kaidessa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:10:57 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:11:47 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:11:51 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:12 -!- HDA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:43 Opinion check: is it consensus that that there are a lot of branches need fixing of some sort, and that doing so should take precidence over any consideration of new branches? 13:25:03 Also, is it consensus that new content is inherently suspect because reduces the game's clarity? 13:25:16 "consensus" 13:25:27 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:25:56 Well, I know minmay is advocating both of those points, but my guess is that they aren't necessarily shared by the whole dev team. 13:26:22 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 28.0/20140319124030]] 13:27:39 well, most people seem to think the game is quite long enough as is, if not too long 13:28:04 the question of 'are there too many monsters/mechanics' is another question, though 13:28:18 and I don't think there's a real consensus on that 13:28:25 Lasty: I like new content, including new branches, but I think it needs to swapped with old content like the Lair branches are. 13:28:41 Agreed, reaverb 13:28:52 I'm refering to a thread where I propose taking 4 levels out of Lair and changing them to something else 13:28:54 Lasty: But if you're talking about your Tavern branches people heavily objected when I suggested reducing the Lair's length the other day. 13:29:07 Ah, interesting -- which people? 13:29:10 Lasty: Yes, the Lair thing is unlikely to happen. 13:29:42 I remember elliptic said he'd much rather cut down the Lair branches, don't remember the rest. 13:29:55 I think that was pretty much the response, though I agree/d with him 13:29:59 Oh, as in, they'd rather cut down Lair w/o replacement 13:30:00 But it was pretty clear the majority of people didn't like it. 13:30:22 no, as in, lair is actually at a good length 13:30:24 and doesn't need cutting 13:30:32 Lasty: No, that they'd rather cut down Snake, Shoals, Spider, and Swamp. 13:30:39 -!- Sonata has quit [Quit: ₪₪₪-₪₪₪-₪₪-₪₪₪] 13:30:39 My suggestion was to cut without replacement. 13:31:00 oh, gotcha 13:31:21 I do think each of the lair branches could use -2 levels 13:31:39 I'd say -1 13:31:47 Well, somewhere in that range anyway 13:31:50 sure 13:31:54 PleasingFungus: But that's 4 and 4 is a weird number. 13:32:00 4 is a perfectly reasonable number 13:32:10 Orc is 4 13:32:12 like orc 13:32:13 yes 13:32:36 hm 13:32:40 PleasingFungus: That's a good point :D 13:33:00 -!- Vis_Ruker has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:33:03 But notice there's only one branch which has an even number of levels. People don't like even for some reason. 13:33:07 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:33:13 Well, maybe if things go well, the discussion in that tavern thread can get enough progress that it might be worth bringing up again at a point when someone's looking for a replacement branch 13:33:25 reaverb: two 13:33:27 three 13:33:35 (lair, slime, orc) 13:33:38 possibly more I'm forgetting 13:33:44 please don't indulge in numerology 13:33:47 haha 13:33:48