00:00:01 <|amethyst> that was not true until recently :) 00:00:16 |amethyst: Yay wheals 00:00:20 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:00:33 Thanks 00:00:40 TODO: move the rest of the stuff out of mon-stuff.cc until it no longer exists. 00:01:07 <|amethyst> reaverb: at least mon-stuff.cc has some specificity 00:01:09 <|amethyst> stuff.cc 00:01:10 mon-no-stuff.cc 00:01:25 -!- fungee^ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:01:31 <|amethyst> effects.cc (yes, I know that one is actually more specific than "effects") 00:01:54 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:01:54 |amethyst: If it's more specific it should be renamed. 00:01:56 <|amethyst> misc.cc 00:01:58 handle_tiem.cc 00:02:13 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:20 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:20 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14.1-2-gf595e19 00:02:27 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-812-gf5d8342: Clean up _magic_contamination_effects a little 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 54+ 50-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5d8342362cf 00:02:29 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:29 |amethyst: Hmm, I should add comments to the top of those saying what group of thing sis in them. 00:02:32 <|amethyst> I'd probably go with time.cc but yeah, that wouldn't be bad 00:02:38 -!- indspenceable has quit [Client Quit] 00:02:41 skills.cc and skills2.cc 00:03:27 ontoclasm: Apparenlty crawl use to have an items4.cc 00:03:32 <|amethyst> I guess someone's notepad started crashing 00:03:37 <|amethyst> s/someone/Linley/ 00:03:48 |amethyst: No, it was the compiler. 00:03:56 items_final2_revB.cc 00:03:56 It wouldn't take such a big source file. 00:04:12 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 00:04:22 which god's invo tiles should i do next 00:05:00 jiyva 00:05:03 slimiest of gods 00:05:07 fed 00:05:13 <|amethyst> note that, when combining header files, it's easy to make rebuilds much more frequent 00:05:15 jiyva's already done 00:05:28 |amethyst: Combining header files? 00:05:30 o 00:05:48 <|amethyst> reaverb: like skills.h and skills2.h 00:06:01 |amethyst: Yes, I'm pretty sure that's why they're split. 00:06:04 PleasingFungus: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/charms.png 00:06:08 second row from the bottom 00:06:14 One is more low level and the other more high level. 00:06:26 From what I could tell when I looked. 00:06:33 on my god the slime pacification (?) icon 00:06:35 I forget the name but 00:06:37 that's so perfect 00:06:40 yes 00:06:41 The song wone. 00:06:50 that's my favorite one of all the ones i've done so far 00:06:56 I love jiyva 00:06:58 oh that reminds m 00:07:00 e 00:07:10 someone should push my description patch 00:07:20 since the last patch of mine went so well 00:07:29 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:07:32 Pleasingfungus: The god one? I'd have to give Dith Exploration piety first. 00:07:35 hahaha 00:07:42 you really hate that description that much? 00:07:48 you could just take that line out, it's not the end of the world. 00:07:53 And I want to bring it up on c-r-d but I don't want to give it it's own issue. 00:07:55 so to speak. 00:08:22 why not give "dith exploration piety" its own issue? it sounds like a large enough change 00:08:28 larger than e.g. "strawberry tile #3" 00:08:42 <|amethyst> reaverb: or bring back halftone (which dpeg wants anyway) and make it seen-monster piety to go with the seen-monster XP 00:09:33 |amethyst: Yes, I was going to bring that up. What state is halftone in? 00:09:41 seen-monster piety seems like a pretty good system 00:09:48 -!- File200 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:56 since it's basically like piety-on-kills but works for cowards too 00:09:58 ontoclams: Indeed, that is why TSO already uses it. 00:10:05 oh right 00:10:07 he does? 00:10:09 <|amethyst> reaverb: it needs rebasing, and there were several changes that need to be made 00:10:09 what 00:10:16 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-812-gf5d8342 (34) 00:10:31 <|amethyst> reaverb: one of them being a way to gain piety when you're levelling by running away :) 00:10:56 |amethyst: Yes, one more thing on the Todo list. 00:11:02 Stable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14.1-2-gf595e19 (34) 00:11:16 <|amethyst> reaverb: some of the branch has already been cherry-picked in 00:11:21 <|amethyst> %git :/M_SHADOW 00:11:22 07|amethyst02 {Grunt} * 0.14-a0-2961-g69b86a6: Split M_SHADOW from M_GLOWS_LIGHT. 10(3 months ago, 6 files, 15+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=69b86a635792 00:11:31 <|amethyst> %git :/killing shadows 00:11:32 07|amethyst02 {Grunt} * 0.14-a0-2962-g126f6a0: No Dith piety for killing shadows (dialectric) 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 24+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=126f6a084b6f 00:11:46 PleasingFungus: Generally I would like to reflavor the gods, just to the point that "Why would anybody ever want to worship this god" isn't a question that can be asked. 00:12:06 So less of them are Evil for the sake of Evil. 00:12:11 ? evil is cool 00:12:16 kiku, makhleb 00:12:18 they're cool 00:12:20 thematically at least 00:12:32 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:01 crawl is a very cartoony game, in terms of theme. it's not a game that tries to give deep characterization or motivation. and that's a good thing, I think. 00:13:10 since you're going through and murdering everything, which'd be fucked up if it was more 'realistic' 00:13:26 gods that are evil because they're Evil makes sense in that context, I think. 00:13:43 the problem I saw was with gods that had their description not really "selling" the god to you 00:13:48 PleasingFungus: Hmm, I guess I sort of seperate lore from gameplay in that context. 00:13:55 Yes, selling the god is good. 00:14:09 zin, tso, ash... their descriptions were all about the penalties and not really about the cool stuff they did 00:14:24 my ash description probably still needs work in that regard... 00:14:49 but being 'evil' isn't a problem. I think I touched the evil god descriptions least of all of them, really 00:15:16 |amethyst: Actually effects.cc has quite a bit more than time effects, holy word and torment for one. 00:15:38 PleasingFungus: where is this patch you made? 00:15:41 Althought I guess I could split those off into a LOS_attacks.cc 00:15:44 ontoclasm: lemme find it 00:16:03 evil gods have a pretty obvious reason for people to worship them: power 00:16:21 makh is a murderous dick but he offers a pretty straightforward bargain 00:16:34 http://sprunge.us/eYUS here's the last version; I guess I should make a new version with a new name & without the dith stuff 00:16:40 and with another pass on ash, maybe 00:17:41 one thing you could do is open each god description by saying "X is the god of Y" in some format 00:17:44 some of them already do this 00:17:56 Oh yes that reminds me the good god piety thing exists and I should probably remove it because it's unecssary complication. 00:18:27 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.15-a0-812-gf5d8342 (34) 00:18:34 <|amethyst> It's good flavour though 00:18:43 +1 to X is god of Y suggestion, although it might not be worth if you have to strain. 00:18:44 <|amethyst> shows that the good gods are a team unlike others 00:18:53 good god piety? 00:18:55 the 2* thing? 00:19:06 PleasingFungus: Yes. 00:19:13 especially if Y includes some cool non-obvious things 00:19:14 mm 00:19:19 like fedhas being the god of weather 00:19:24 it's nice because it doesn't start you completely from scratch 00:19:36 ontoclasm: What about Q? 00:19:44 hm 00:19:46 |amethyst: I would be sort of fine with removing the team thing too, I guess it can stay. 00:19:51 i guess fedhas is the god of good weather 00:19:53 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:20:00 rain isn't good weather!!! 00:20:06 except we kind of need some rain right now 00:20:06 it is if you like plants 00:20:08 so I guess it is 00:20:48 also: 00:20:49 +soldiers in their od's eternal crusade 00:20:56 probably need a g in there 00:21:47 Hmm, effects.cc has a lot of bizzare things. Might be easy just to extract the time stuff and leave the current stuff. 00:22:21 Heh, yell() is in effects.cc rather than shout.cc 00:22:30 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:22:42 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 00:23:19 ontoclasm: yep 00:23:26 spotted that when I was looking at the commit a few minutes ago 00:23:50 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:26:54 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:14 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:19 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:09 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:34:30 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:34:45 -!- rast- is now known as rast 00:42:55 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 00:43:57 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:46:42 -!- WhiteShark has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:47:27 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:48:02 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:48:07 !tell MarvinPA revised god description patch - mainly lugonu/ash tweaks (from the last patch) http://sprunge.us/PUHU 00:48:08 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let marvinpa know. 00:51:38 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:55:23 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:55:45 -!- Thrkk has quit [Client Quit] 00:59:02 PleasingFungus: One last good thing might be to alphabetize the god descriptions. 00:59:34 but "the order they were added" is such a reasonable & useful sorting! 00:59:52 <|amethyst> realphabetising should be a separate commit 01:00:16 <|amethyst> otherwise it's hard to see the changes in the diff 01:00:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:07 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 01:01:32 |amethyst: Yes, no reason a patch can't have mutliple commit thought. 01:02:13 <|amethyst> right 01:03:01 -!- indspenc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:03:20 PleasingFungus: alphabetizing, get HYPED 01:03:28 I am so dang hype 01:03:30 it is preposterous 01:03:58 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:12 gonna sort that out then go to bed. 01:05:21 reaverb: thanks for creating the FORTITUDE duration 01:05:22 wait, is TSO "O"? 01:05:33 because he's not S or T 01:05:33 PleasingFungus: Hmm, here's 1 01:05:38 So I would put him first. 01:05:39 I'm stealing it from new_nemelex to try with something else I'm working on 01:05:42 oh 01:05:44 ugh 01:05:48 johnstein: What's "it" 01:05:49 I completely failed at my attempt 01:05:57 johnstein: Oh, that was N78291 01:06:00 oh 01:06:05 I just helped him rename it. 01:06:07 I saw your name 01:06:09 well 01:06:12 your nickname 01:06:16 thanks N78291 01:06:21 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:06:46 isn't tso listed last on the gods lookup screen 01:06:52 I'm very embarassed how many people are giving me credit. I basicially skimmed the code and typed git push. 01:07:06 I guess I also did some whitespace and suggestions. 01:07:17 I'm trying to modify the bad potions. ie: following the Potion of Slowing -> Potion of Lignification thing 01:07:35 nicolae-: That would be a good reason to put TSO at the bottom. What's the god lookup screen? 01:07:36 working on a Potion of Grog that puts the player into an Intoxicated state 01:07:48 for !confuse 01:07:51 ?/G 01:07:52 Matching terms (1535): !fight, !lg, *rage, +fog, +rage, -mag, a_glowing_drain, a_long_way_away, abyss_guide, abyss_scumming, abyssal_knight, accursed_screaming, acute_eyesight, agate_snail, agility, agnes, agony, agra, ak_guide, alligator, alligator_snapping_turtle, am_guide, amazing_games, amulet_of_cekugob, amulet_of_guardian_spirit, amulet_of_life_saving, amulet_of_lifesaving, amulet_of_rage, a... 01:08:03 well, crap 01:08:22 johnstein: So it gives fortitiude but confusion? 01:08:46 Remember ambrosia exists, that would be very powerful. (i.e, not a bad potion) 01:09:40 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:45 yea. basically. thought about adding a 'no fear' effect. but not sure that would even be relevant (how often does a player have to even worry about that). 01:10:59 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:11:07 there are what 01:11:10 two monsters that give fear? 01:11:18 yea. didn't seem very useful 01:11:18 fr: dragons cause fear (they're big and scary!!!) 01:11:31 I was letting 'theme' get in the way of 'mechanics' 01:11:32 you could have it block mesmerize effects, which are a kind of fear, i guess 01:11:43 yea. that might be interesting 01:11:51 I don't think a !clarity + !confusion is good design. 01:12:26 ? 01:13:24 johnstein: I guess I just don't think mesmerization or cause fear are common enough effects that immunity is agood idea. 01:13:38 oh ok 01:14:13 I was thinking along the lines of, with mesm, you are forced to move forward. with conf, you have the slight chance to move away or delay moving forward 01:14:24 but not sure if that's really an interesting choice 01:14:30 or just a fun edge case to muse over 01:14:38 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:14:58 but I agree 01:15:11 probably not good to block mesm and not the conf 01:15:17 that's just weird 01:15:37 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Excess Flood] 01:15:47 wow I really need to use debug-lite 01:16:22 http://sprunge.us/iLYR revised descriptions 01:16:31 well by revised I mean I did the re-ordering 01:17:10 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:17:26 also a tiny capitalization fix (had a "the Shining One" at the start of a sentence) 01:18:18 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:18:18 -!- the_glow has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:58 I'm trying to think of a good post-effect debuff. exh+slow feels too similar to berserk 01:19:16 for a potion of grog? 01:19:18 why not... retching 01:19:21 hahhaa 01:19:27 I hear that's never relevant 01:19:29 hah 01:20:04 ??retch 01:20:04 retch[1/1]: You can't eat food or quaff potions. Inflicted by {plague shambler} melee. 01:21:11 -!- RiotInferno has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:38 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:25 $ git revert f280897 :) 01:22:34 %git f280897 01:22:34 07kilobyte02 {mumra} * 0.13-a0-537-gf280897: Cure all nausea, permanently. 10(1 year, 2 months ago, 17 files, 24+ 147-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f2808973ab0a 01:22:43 that would be a way to make some friends 01:23:27 PleasingFungus: By the way, I try to stuff as much info in the first line as possible since that's the most read. 01:23:38 ok 01:23:56 is there anything more that particularly needs to be said about these? 01:24:26 PleasingFungus: In this case I would use "Alphabetize god descriptions (reaverb)" 01:24:35 And then not have any second line. 01:24:40 sure 01:25:15 There's no reason to hide info from somebody skimming the commit log or looking at through a Chei bot message. 01:25:45 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:26:20 This is not a subject about which I feel strongly. 01:26:22 Good night! 01:26:34 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140513030201]] 01:27:37 Are all codebases as littered with TODOs as Crawl's or do we abnormally ignroe them? 01:28:21 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 01:34:16 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 01:39:53 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:43:34 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:16 Hmm, does anybody else think it would be a good idea to remove as many #includes from .h files as possible? I hate feeling unsure removing a #include is justified due to that. 01:53:02 <|amethyst> header files should #include the things they need to include 01:53:22 <|amethyst> excess includes in headers should definitely be trimmed 01:54:10 <|amethyst> but I don't think they're all that frequent 01:54:24 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 01:54:39 |amethyst: Well I was thinking for, for example, removing dice_def class from random.cc to so random.cc isn't included every where. 01:55:14 <|amethyst> and putting it where? 01:55:21 |amethyst: new file 01:55:30 <|amethyst> how does that help? 01:55:36 <|amethyst> random.cc isn't even that big 01:55:41 <|amethyst> err, random.h 01:56:30 |amethyst: If somebody removes a #include beam.h from a file which does not #include random.h they will not get compile errors they have to track down. 01:56:39 this is kinda fun http://dev.berotato.org:8081/#watch-dbrotest 01:57:05 In Crawl, there are 488 places where .h files #include other .h files, includes things like enum.h or thought 01:58:20 johnstein: What bot is that? 01:58:33 that's me 01:58:39 johnstein: Oh 01:58:40 no bot 01:58:50 Why is it test 01:59:00 dbrotest is my test account on dbro 01:59:02 ??DBRO 01:59:02 dbro[1/2]: The development wing of CBRO. ssh to dev.berotato.org user: dev same ssh keys as cbro (http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys) . Currently serving mediocre crawl dev versions and Dwarf Fortress (running in TEXT mode) Set your terminal size to 80x25 (!) and ensure you are using UTF-8 character set. 01:59:12 johnstein: What are you testing? 01:59:21 the potion of grog (potion of conf) 01:59:26 Oh, hmm. 01:59:38 What effects did you decice on? 01:59:44 just exh and retch 01:59:48 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:52 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:54 (And Fort) 01:59:57 yea 02:00:10 conf+fort+intox (which I haven't added anything else yet) 02:00:19 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 02:00:31 I may just remove the intox effect. there's a lot going on with this 02:00:41 What's the intox effect? 02:01:03 nothing yet. I was thinking of boosting str and debuffing dex and int (you are dumb and uncoordinated) 02:01:15 but fort adds the str buff 02:01:30 and debuffing int doesn't do anything 02:01:34 since you are conf 02:01:47 <|amethyst> reaverb: but what you're proposing doesn't reduce the number of headers including other headers; it just changes which one is included. One advantage, though, would be that you could get dice_def without #include and 02:02:38 |amethyst: Hmm, I guess my goal would be better phrased as "Reduce the amount of unnessary code included by header files" 02:03:27 <|amethyst> yes, that's good, but 02:03:29 johnstein: what's the !curing interation. 02:03:44 <|amethyst> I wouldn't want to see one separate header file for every struct and enum, either 02:03:57 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:04:21 |amethyst: Hmm, I guess that's why externs.h exists. 02:04:29 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:05:00 !curing interaction hasn't been fleshed out yet ;p 02:05:13 it cures conf and leaves the fort 02:05:15 yay 02:05:18 -!- HDA_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:18 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:31 johnstein: Do you think it would something other than "Cure confusion, leave other effects." ? 02:05:32 the plan was for !curing to cure the entire intox effect 02:05:42 so you lose your fort 02:05:53 I was thinking of adding a slaying effect 02:06:02 johnstein: At this point I would suggest just making it a seperate duration, no implying Fort. 02:06:13 what do you mean? 02:06:18 It can still do simalar things to Fort. 02:06:19 <|amethyst> reaverb: I do think splitting up some of those big files would make sense, but probably only a few things would actually give you benefit 02:06:49 oh, you mean add dmg shaving as a part of intox? 02:06:52 <|amethyst> reaverb: and there's still the precompiled headers thing, but I don't know who to ask about that 02:07:02 |amethyst: Oh, hmm. 02:07:14 johnstein: Yes, perferably much less dmg shaving. 02:07:37 Well, if curing fixes the dmg shaving too it might be alright. 02:07:39 reaverb: I haven't taken a close look at how much dmg shaving fort does 02:07:43 <|amethyst> reaverb: e.g. splitting off cloud_struct from externs.h sounds good, until you realise it's used in env.h which is #included everywhere 02:08:20 reaverb: this is the first time I've been able to test everything together. I totally screwed up my own implementation of DUR_DAMAGE_SHAVING 02:08:29 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:08:40 johnstein: Hmm. 02:08:57 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Client Quit] 02:09:01 johnstein: Also, might want to look here: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=82cd9f861486d27ebc2b1097e127c7a20221393e if you're going to use mutiple durations like that. 02:09:02 reaverb: it's just me not really understanding the code that well yet. 02:09:07 <|amethyst> reaverb: but I think if you measure the overall size of g++ -E everything.cc after each change, that would give you something to go by 02:09:25 <|amethyst> reaverb: (-E = preprocess only) 02:09:40 |amethyst: I'm sorry, I don't know exactly what that means. (g++ ?) 02:10:01 reaverb: thanks. took me a while to snake through the code to implement DUR_INTOX. I basically copied the berserk code structure 02:10:24 johnstein: Durations are awful, I should proabably try to change that some time. 02:10:30 hah 02:10:32 <|amethyst> reaverb: the C++ compiler 02:11:11 reaverb: I have the intox stuff in one feature branch (and it worked) and had my dur_dmg_shv stuff in another branch (which also seemed to work) 02:11:15 |amethyst: So I type "g++ -E foo.cc" and it tells me something? 02:11:32 <|amethyst> it preprocesses the file to stdout 02:11:49 reaverb: but when I merged them together, my intox duration wouldn't ever end. you.duration[DUR_INTOX] wouldn't decrement 02:11:55 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:12:17 johnstein: Yeah, you have to tell Crawl in player-reacts.cc that you want to decrement it. 02:12:18 <|amethyst> so if you add that up over all the files, that gives you a measure of how much including is happening 02:12:36 <|amethyst> and in particular, how many lines of code the compiler has to compile 02:12:53 reaverb: it worked when I ran the intox stuff in its own feature branch (via player-reacts) 02:13:02 <|amethyst> I guess just g++ -E isn't enough, because you also need the -I flags used in your normal crawl build 02:13:14 but it's irrelevant now since I'm going to piggyback on FORT 02:14:00 |amethyst: Hmm, so If I used this on a file I'm axing #includes on, I could tell if it actually cut code or just pretended to because it's still being chain included by something else? 02:16:14 <|amethyst> yes 02:17:03 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:11 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14.1-2-gf595e19 02:18:49 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:19:55 |amethyst: Hmm, would be if there wasa a script to do that on the entire code base. 02:20:33 Although I guess it would get false results where, for example, mon-data.h is included 02:21:02 <|amethyst> reaverb: mon-data.h is only #included once fortunately 02:21:54 |amethyst: Yes, I think it would fail in that case because an empty list is still valid? 02:22:01 I don't actually know. 02:22:17 err, array/vector/whatever container 02:22:56 <|amethyst> oh, I see what you mean 02:24:00 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:06 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:24:13 <|amethyst> mon-data.h isn't so bad in that respect (it actually defines the variable itself) but spl-data.h is 02:24:14 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-812-gf5d8342 (34) 02:24:26 <|amethyst> :q 02:26:28 -!- eb has quit [] 02:27:41 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:28:05 |amethyst: What do you mean it "defines the variable itself" ? 02:28:26 <|amethyst> reaverb: mon-data.h has static monsterentry mondata[] = 02:28:26 <|amethyst> { 02:28:31 <|amethyst> 02:28:43 |amethyst: Ah. 02:28:46 <|amethyst> whereas spl-data.h is just the inside of the table 02:30:35 |amethyst: That can probably be easily fixed. I'm on it. 02:31:40 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 02:34:01 D:8 death yak 02:34:02 what 02:34:22 and then trog gifts me a vampiric battleaxe 02:34:26 <|amethyst> lair entrance 02:34:30 <|amethyst> wrong channel? 02:34:34 oops 02:34:45 -!- FourHTwoA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:34:45 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:34:48 -!- rast- is now known as rast 02:35:55 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:18 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:40:14 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:10 |amethyst: any idea when NEW webtiles will be ready for public testing? 02:47:09 -!- LNCP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:55 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-813-g5152fba: Move the definition spl-data.h's table into the spl-data.h (|amethyst) 10(5 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5152fba6f8da 02:47:57 <|amethyst> johnstein: I won't get a chance to start playing around with it until next week 02:48:00 <|amethyst> johnstein: you could try! :) 02:50:27 |amethyst: Are there any other "defintion of a table in a header file" that I could look at? 02:50:47 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:51:40 <|amethyst> reaverb: *-data.h (but art-data.h is generated so you'd want util/art-data.pl instead) 02:51:54 |amethyst: Hmm, should have guessed. 02:52:19 <|amethyst> branch-data and mon-pick-data are fine for global scope 02:52:49 <|amethyst> but the others are just the insides of tables 02:53:43 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:53:52 <|amethyst> anyway, time for bed 02:53:58 <|amethyst> later 02:54:03 |amethyst: Good night! 02:55:39 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 02:58:34 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:01:18 |amethyst: maybe I could try. I haven't looked at it close enough to know if it would require any change to the dgamelaunch stuff. seemed like it would definitely affect config.py 03:01:39 -!- Mateji has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:32 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:14 %git 03:06:14 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-813-g5152fba: Move the definition spl-data.h's table into the spl-data.h (|amethyst) 10(23 minutes ago, 2 files, 6+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5152fba6f8da 03:06:45 oh, it's just behind 03:07:04 03elliptic02 07* 0.15-a0-814-g8b15fbd: Fix rounding errors with drained skills. 10(14 minutes ago, 5 files, 14+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8b15fbdb43eb 03:07:04 03elliptic02 07* 0.15-a0-815-g6f0653d: Fix rounding errors with Ashenzari wrath. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f0653d28d17 03:07:05 gammafunk: What do you mean behind? 03:07:05 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:05 behold! 03:07:19 reaverb: do you know about cheipoke btw? 03:07:26 gammafunk: Yes 03:07:31 ok, just checking 03:07:39 I also have a new fancier pre-commit hook 03:08:01 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:01 I'll show it to you know, since it at least shows you some of the bash stuff you asked about, but I'm going to have |amethyst look over it 03:08:12 gammafunk: Thanks. 03:08:15 he can probably suggest improvements, also probably on the perl side 03:09:07 reaverb: http://sprunge.us/MEQR 03:09:31 the bad-commit.pl script is just the existing example pre-commit hook in its own script 03:10:01 since I use that, I don't call checkwhite, but if you wanted to use checkwhite and not that perl script, you could use the example of unbrace there 03:10:22 it's not perfect, since unbrace will check any file that's modified and might find bad braces in portions not changed by your commit 03:10:28 Huh, bash if end is "fi"? That's clever. 03:10:33 but it won't check files that aren't changed by the commit, at least 03:10:42 heh, some would call it worse than clever :) 03:10:53 shell programming is....weird 03:11:18 I'm not really sure we need the empty tree hash business, will ask |amethyst about that 03:11:41 I'm not even sure why the perl pre-commit uses that trick 03:12:04 but I did test, and it catches e.g. when you still have unresolved conflict markers in the code 03:12:58 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:51 hrm, now that I think about it, in that script $files should never be empty 03:14:04 since it would mean no files were changed, and git wouldn't have allowed the commit in the first place 03:14:05 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:14:16 so that could be simplified I guess 03:16:57 gammafunk: Hmm. 03:17:00 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:18:12 -!- Pepe has quit [Quit: rebuttal] 03:19:00 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:19 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-816-g2d2c9af: Move the definitions of other -data.h tables into their respective files 10(26 minutes ago, 6 files, 16+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d2c9af36ea5 03:23:58 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:45 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 03:25:47 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:44:55 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 03:45:36 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:58 -!- scummos| has quit [Client Quit] 03:47:26 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:42 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:54 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:25 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:25 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:50:43 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:55 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:55:08 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:55:51 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:51 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:56:58 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:47 -!- partyhat has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:05 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:00:54 -!- absolutego has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:03:48 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:48 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05:17 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:07:23 -!- NeremWorld has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:07:45 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:25:29 -!- tgcid has joined ##crawl-dev 04:29:10 -!- scummos| has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:51 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 04:34:12 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:34:21 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:34:27 -!- rast- is now known as rast 04:38:51 -!- aegolden has quit [Quit: aegolden] 04:41:21 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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timeout: 258 seconds] 07:00:47 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:02:32 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:56 Error message when entering level by Mandevil 07:07:28 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:44 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:08:12 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 07:09:53 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:10:17 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-817-gc8e4a01: Reduce the weight of some Gozag shop altar vaults 10(66 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c8e4a016c1e0 07:18:20 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:49 -!- Lasty has joined ##crawl-dev 07:25:41 03edlothiol02 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.15-a0-739-g0081c28: Webtiles: Add back a function used by the game client. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0081c2809afb 07:25:41 03edlothiol02 07[webtiles-changes] * 0.15-a0-740-gc3e639c: Webtiles: New game loader. 10(12 hours ago, 2 files, 53+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3e639cf3d77 07:25:43 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:28:03 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:28:55 -!- jeebusmcchrist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:31:29 -!- pirate has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:32:18 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:42 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:23 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:39:14 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:51 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:44:04 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-818-g6a45c56: Remove some references to Crypt:4-5 in unique placement 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a45c5698067 07:44:04 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-819-g970d4a5: Don't let some uniques place in Tomb 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=970d4a50b716 07:44:06 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:22 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:33 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:54:13 Mesmerization can pull you away even when in treeform by LarsH 07:54:43 -!- LarsH_ is now known as LarsH 07:56:41 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:57:33 -!- partyhat has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:24 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:18 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:29 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:15 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:10:45 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-820-ga75b530: Don't let sirens pull treeformed players (#8555) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a75b53014d9e 08:10:47 -!- Orfax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:10:50 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 08:14:58 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:52 new shoals strategy 08:21:11 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:24:07 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:31 -!- tgcid has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:59 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:32:22 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 08:33:54 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:59 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:43:48 -!- DrKe has quit [] 08:47:00 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:18 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:34 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:18 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:43 -!- LeStahL has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:02:43 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:03:38 -!- StahL has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:01 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:14 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:15:23 -!- Whistling_Beard has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:35 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 09:18:53 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:37 !tell johnstein for the webtiles-changes branch, you mainly need to convert the config.py to a config.json by running configexport.py and maybe manually adapting the results 09:19:38 edlothiol: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 09:20:12 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:22:57 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:47 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:52 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-821-gf983490: Comment typo fix. 10(87 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f983490b193a 09:25:52 03wheals02 07[weightless] * 0.15-a0-772-g7ee113a: Don't make dancing weapon stats dependent on mass. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 13+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7ee113a69f8a 09:25:52 03wheals02 07[weightless] * 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[Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:34:48 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:35:04 -!- morrelonomicon has quit [Client Quit] 10:37:49 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:56 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:08 -!- yargh23232 has quit [Client Quit] 10:39:21 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Permission denied] 10:39:34 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:48 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:46:56 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 10:49:36 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 10:59:18 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59:19 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140513030201]] 11:00:40 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:00:43 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:05:43 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:48 -!- Ankalagon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:37 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:09:53 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:10:21 -!- Cryp71c_ is now known as Cryp71c 11:13:41 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:13 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20131216183647]] 11:15:54 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:19 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:50 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:51 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14.1-2-gf595e19 11:23:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:23:22 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:23:35 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:29:54 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:39 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:54 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:34:51 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-822-gedb40d3: Remove plague shamblers. 10(11 minutes ago, 43 files, 34+ 156-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edb40d360931 11:35:38 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:16 rip 11:40:35 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:43:18 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:45:20 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:46:07 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:47 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:47:48 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:41 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:52:38 hi marvinpa 11:53:05 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 11:53:19 hi 11:53:42 I made another god description patch 11:53:47 there will be no end 11:53:50 to the god description patches 11:54:06 i saw! i think 11:54:20 i have some version saved, and it's newer than the one with the terrible commit message at least 11:54:23 I made a very slightly revised version an hour after the last one I sent you 11:54:33 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:54:40 http://sprunge.us/iLYR 11:54:45 also I still think that commit message was funny 11:54:45 oh ok, i have no idea which one i actually have saved and sequell is dead so no messages anyway 11:54:54 rip sequell 11:54:57 rip 11:55:13 I was just thinking "now that sequell is dead, no one will echo my rip" 11:55:34 I should have known better 11:57:29 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:58:38 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:58:53 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:54 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:01:04 -!- tkappleton2 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:06 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:02:44 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:03:20 Stable (0.14) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14.1-2-gf595e19 12:03:24 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:56 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:38 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:09:34 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:41 wheals: please learn how to disable durations and enchantments in other files when you remove things :) 12:10:31 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-823-gf796582: Melt away lava orcs. 10(28 minutes ago, 45 files, 297+ 46-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f79658290cfb 12:10:31 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-824-g4b23974: Fix some more TAG_MAJOR_VERSION > 34 hiccups. 10(8 minutes ago, 4 files, 18+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4b23974c7b71 12:10:51 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:00 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:05 what did you just do 12:11:29 launched the missiles 12:11:33 what did you just do 12:12:28 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:12:48 wow, we have lists of durations repeated in a _lot_ of places 12:13:12 y e p 12:13:15 yes it's great 12:13:23 i forget the wiz-you.cc one literally every time 12:13:34 i mean i was going to complain and i even missed those ones 12:15:14 it gets especially good for listing things on %, @, morgues/dumps (and sometimes durations are listed only on 1 or 2 of those 3 i think!) 12:15:22 yup 12:17:03 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:06 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-822-gedb40d3 (34) 12:20:05 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:20:44 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:13 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:13 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:47 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:03 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:31 -!- tksquared has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:32 -!- edlothiol has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:23 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:32:26 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:46 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:38:18 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-825-ga22a537: Changelog through 0.15-a0-824-g4b23974. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 28+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a22a537c0505 12:38:18 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-826-g4a66bc2: Remove a bad monster spellcasting text key substitution (elliptic). 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4a66bc2554fa 12:38:20 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:40:08 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:40:50 Grunt: speaking of text keys, johnny0 got "@The_weapon@ @_screams_@, "DON'T YOU DARE DIE ON ME NOW, @CAPS@ @player_name@!"" the other day and it turned into @PLAYER_NAME@ 12:41:01 hah 12:43:15 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:50 hmm i thought i fixed some of those for weapon speech but maybe i imagined it 12:43:51 I reported a singing sword text bug a while back 12:44:08 oh, and then you fixed it 12:44:46 oh nice i didn't imagine it 12:45:23 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:35 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:37 question 12:52:45 has new nemelex been merged yet 12:59:02 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:18 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:45 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 13:01:13 -!- Spatzist has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:01:54 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:05:48 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:02 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:07:38 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:18 -!- Ankalagon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:44 Grunt: was my first serious Bribe attempt: colour me impressed :) 13:12:35 How to buy the Elf:$ loot for 3k gold... 13:13:38 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 13:13:54 Grunt: it's attractive at XL 15, before doing Lair subbranches. 13:13:55 -!- Brannock is now known as Brannock_ 13:15:53 Yes! 13:17:17 It was like Corruption, only that I actually had stuff to do (like not dying and killing). 13:17:43 Well, it is another kind of corruption after all... 13:17:53 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:15 indeed, indeed 13:18:27 1learn add bribe_branch 13:19:20 -!- raskol_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:19:21 Hmm, didn't realize bribe branch was powerful enough to make XL 15 Elf attractive. 13:19:44 I don't think that's precisely what was meant 13:19:47 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:20:05 I've done Elf:$ at XL:12 with HOHe 13:22:57 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:23:27 I'm changing the fact that it's you.mutation but you.innate_mutationS because it's silly. 13:23:41 Should I go with you.mutationS or you.innate_mutation? 13:25:18 Eh, I guess it doesn't really matter, I'll go with you.innate_mutation because it's shorter and you.mutation is the most used one. 13:26:17 hm when I get home I should rebase salamanders and think about what to do with them 13:26:39 Grunt: An sinster motive for removing LO? :D 13:26:42 give them a tension mechanic, clearly 13:26:50 also let them worship beogh 13:27:00 ...and call them some kind of orc? 13:27:08 Maybe, uh, 13:27:11 "magma orcs" 13:27:13 ??????? 13:27:17 Grunt: Oh, I heard you were thinking of bumping the major tag version soon. Is that true? 13:27:29 innovative 13:27:39 I want it to happen at some point if only so we can clean out a lot of garbage. 13:27:43 -!- jason55 has quit [Client Quit] 13:27:51 I'm just wondering if anything is coming up that should wait for it. 13:28:05 also btw, check the beogh description in gods.txt - there's a lorc reference there that I think (?) you didn't delete 13:28:27 this may cause conflicts with my patch but that's not the end of the world 13:28:28 oh I missed the descripts 13:28:31 o 13:28:32 don't forget to update the manual! 13:28:35 * Grunt shrugs. 13:28:43 * Grunt removes wheals. 13:28:45 would lorcs have even been added to the manul 13:29:06 Grunt: I forget whether there are any save compat issues with squarelos 13:29:07 PleasingFungus: I won't think so, the definite version is on the dev wiki 13:29:14 oh I think I removed them from the manual leading into the 0.14 release 13:29:16 they were, the manual is for trunk 13:29:21 or it's weird 13:29:30 So unless somebody added them back?? 13:29:50 I don't remember any recent manual updates (which is odd) 13:30:20 I'll check when I get home. 13:30:40 %git :/manaul 13:31:34 Could not find commit :/manaul (git returned 128) 13:31:34 %git :/manual 13:31:34 07edlothiol02 * 0.15-a0-718-g54a9af8: Webtiles: Rewrite the lobby using React.js. 10(3 weeks ago, 32 files, 15254+ 1957-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=54a9af8de7bf 13:31:34 %git :/manual 13:31:34 07edlothiol02 * 0.15-a0-718-g54a9af8: Webtiles: Rewrite the lobby using React.js. 10(3 weeks ago, 32 files, 15254+ 1957-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=54a9af8de7bf 13:31:34 ha 13:31:34 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: "What happens when you die in reality?" "You die, stupid. That's why it's called reality."] 13:31:34 The jinx is apparenlty that Chei is offline too. 13:31:34 no, just slow 13:31:39 see! 13:32:21 ??black magic 13:32:23 Oh, yeah 13:32:53 Well, we know the latest Trunk update was at least 3-4 weeks ago, probably further 13:33:48 Oh, is there any advantage to using an attribute over a you.props? 13:33:58 I don't see any but I've missed a lot of things. 13:34:31 %git HEAD^{/Sync m anual} 13:34:32 Could not find commit HEAD^{/Sync m anual} (git returned 128) 13:34:32 attributes are enforced by the compiler 13:34:33 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:33 %git HEAD^{/Sync manual} 13:34:34 07Grunt02 * 0.15-a0-96-g6dece55: Sync manual from wiki. 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 164+ 217-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6dece555467d 13:34:38 mm 13:34:59 typing " you.a_fake_property" will give a compilation error. "you.props["fake_property"]" will crash on run instead 13:35:00 PleasingFungus: Other than that, which would be solved by your macro suggestion. 13:35:38 well, people would have to start using macros first 13:35:42 (you.props have the advantage of easier save compat, not needing to add them etc.) 13:35:57 PleasingFungus: Or you could write a script and update everything at once. 13:35:59 compilers can generally introspect on attributes a little better - you can get better warnings, I suspect 13:36:09 attributes are also slightly faster. that will almost never matter, though 13:36:29 s/almost// 13:36:35 haha 13:36:44 The most nerder version of Fixed that for you ever devised. 13:37:09 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:37:09 -!- slitherrr has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:12 not sure how well a script would work. I'm not sure property access is uniform enough for that to make sense. maybe it could work, though 13:37:38 I have never seen something other than you.props 13:37:46 player is a singleton 13:39:30 well, there are other props used - on monsters and items, iirc 13:39:47 I guess you could handle those separately, probably 13:39:47 PleasingFungus: Oh, yes, that's true. 13:40:04 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-827-gaec04a4: Use you.innate_mutation rather than you.innate_mutations 10(10 minutes ago, 10 files, 69+ 69-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aec04a413c85 13:40:05 the real problem would be testing the change 13:40:21 In any case I think the inconsistances from attributes existing means it would be better to switch completely to props 13:40:36 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:48 Grunt: btw, I survived one Elf:3 incident on potions alone. Makes you quite addicted -- just one more before I go! 13:40:50 since you'd be touching literally > 100 special cases with no established tests set up 13:40:55 you could break something and find out years later 13:41:05 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:41:06 PleasingFungus: Meh, it's not like we don't already do that. 13:41:10 haha 13:41:17 it's the scale of the thing that worries me 13:41:30 especially given my track record so far re: commits & bugs 13:42:56 so, what do you guys think 13:43:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43:14 You know, It probably doesn't even need to be a script. A vim macro would be enough. 13:43:21 should i push my completely-unfinished spellicons branch or wait until it's closer to completion 13:43:38 the sooner you push them, the sooner people start complaining about them 13:43:38 ontoclasm: Push it. 13:43:46 ^ 13:43:46 hah 13:43:59 ontoclasm: Yes there will be minor inconsistancies but it's better to get feedback early. 13:44:13 having it in trunk would definitely make it easier for people other than me to work on it 13:44:21 Also that Pacitfy Jelly Icon needs to in Trunk ASAP 13:44:25 hah 13:44:26 hahaha 13:44:55 I might try to worship Jiyva for the first time just to see it in-game. 13:45:46 worshipping jiyva is kind of tricky 13:45:51 unless you get an early altar 13:45:54 or a slime temple 13:46:03 PleasingFungus: Slime temple? 13:48:57 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:49:40 it's like lugonu corrupted temple 13:49:45 but with jiyva altars 13:49:51 and slime spawning 13:49:58 very cool and fun imho 13:50:13 !vault temple 13:50:15 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:50:20 oh sequell is dead 13:50:20 -!- fufumann has quit [Quit: und weg...] 13:51:04 PleasingFungus: go for it! 13:51:51 I was initially joking but honestly I think it'd be pretty funny 13:52:01 also clearly it needs to have oklobs to be fully Dpeg Approved 13:52:26 ??ignite poison 13:52:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:39 and neutral yellow draconians 13:53:02 and acid cloud generator 13:53:29 -!- GummyVite has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:53:47 there should just be a button that when pressed corrodes all your armor to uselessness in there 13:54:07 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:08 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:44 Lightli: Using a pressure plate? 13:54:51 yes 13:55:04 -!- HDA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:55:08 behind a fleshy orifice 13:56:34 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:33 -!- fooobarr1 has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:57:37 -!- gal_bolle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:46 this is probably a stupid question, but when building with TILES=y, is the 'crawl' executable supposed to use tiles, or is the tiles executable named something else? 13:58:05 the Makefile cast mass confusion on me :-/ 13:58:18 the crawl executable uses tiles 13:58:37 thanks, then I must have something wrong 13:58:38 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:53 well, on linux and os x. if this is windows, I do not know 13:59:21 yes I'm on linux (trying to package crawl into nixpkgs) 13:59:25 however you might verify $PATH if you are building this and have another version installed somewhere and are just typing "crawl" to test 13:59:49 typically . is either last in $PATH or not present at all 14:00:22 did lava orc just go away? Interesting. 14:00:41 TZer0: Well they were bad and they weren't improving, surprised it happened so quickly thought. 14:00:45 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:46 well, it seems i forgot to apply the patch which adds 'TILES=y' into the makefile 14:01:21 -!- MiraclePrism has joined ##crawl-dev 14:01:30 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:01 "make TILES=y" isn't sufficient? 14:02:11 (That's normally how it is done.) 14:02:22 Yes I've never heard of needing a patch to make Tiles 14:02:34 Maybe ten years ago or so. 14:02:39 i did have to patch the makefile for other stuff 14:02:54 gal_bolle: Really? For what? 14:02:55 but you're right, an argument would have been cleaner 14:03:07 what 14:03:10 finding fonts 14:03:41 sdl compile flags 14:03:49 * geekosaur is guessing this means they are working from an existing Nix package which changes the Makefile in various ways 14:04:04 which I can believe since I have local patches to build with MacPorts 14:04:13 So wait, LOs can't be played at all anymore to get wins? 14:04:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04:21 -!- drachereborn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:22 They're not in 0.14 as well 14:04:26 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:34 TZer0: No, you can't select them from the start screen. 14:04:43 You can keep playing them if you're already started. 14:04:48 geekosaur: i'm trying to make the nix package, and the makefile makes a bunch of assumptions which are not true under nix 14:04:52 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:58 just got this message 14:05:00 _Unable to find exit from nicolae_quartered_pool_super 14:05:02 such as me having a (significantly non-empty) /usr 14:05:03 TZer0: And they'll be gone the next time we break save compat 14:05:34 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:40 gal_bolle, yes, sounds like the same adaptations I needed to find stuff under /opt/local 14:05:48 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:06:29 drachereborn: That vaults uses pretty ludicirous subsititution, we'll need somebody who knows the .des synthax. 14:06:38 You're up to date and on master and etc. etc. 14:06:47 trunk on cszo 14:07:46 Hmm, "W" is deep water, correct? 14:07:49 in vaults. 14:08:04 I know even less des syntax :) 14:09:15 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:33 reaverb: what's the vault in question? 14:09:50 nicolae_quartered_pool_super of Lair.des, line 1826 14:10:20 I think the problem is that due to massive subsitutiion it has a VERY small chance to place deep water at all exits. 14:10:34 ("W" is deep water in des syntax, correct? 14:10:47 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:20 It doesn't define 123456 ?? 14:11:54 ah, no monsters at all 14:12:17 dpeg: I think that's handled by 14:12:18 SUBST: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz135 = ., ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ246 = W 14:12:53 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:26 reaverb: what is the question? W = shallow water, it's just a very elaborate way to place lots of shallow water :) 14:13:41 dpeg: Yes, Ok, so my suspcions are wrong. 14:14:04 dpeg: I generate the vault in Wiz mode and got the error, but the vault looks fine too me. 14:14:41 reaverb: what error? 14:14:51 dpeg: "Unable to find exit from nicolae_quartered_pool_super " 14:14:58 Which drachereborn reported. 14:15:09 Tried it again a got the same, looks consistant. 14:16:26 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:57 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:17:10 I'm on it... 14:19:09 A powerful developer guardian rushes to your aid. 14:19:21 * Grunt is engulfed in freezing vapour. Grunt dies! 14:19:34 (TODO: Make Sequell say that) 14:19:49 fr sequell 14:20:00 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:55 Would anybody mind if I removed the restore ability effect from royal jellies? It's not like you're not drowning in !restore abilities anyway. 14:21:43 reaverb: okay by me. 14:22:04 dpeg: Hmm, seems enough to me for a one line change (Well and descript) 14:22:10 They're about to remove functional food now, and fast food later. Where will it end? 14:23:58 -!- Ququman_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:12 Uh, what? 14:24:32 restab is rather rare (especially if you are doing extended and are using it in reasonable amounts). 14:25:30 restore abilities is the only interesting thing about royal jellies 14:25:43 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-828-g4a43dcc: Place less trees and more exits in nicolae_quartered_pool_* (#8554). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4a43dcc9e668 14:25:45 what about the part where they split off other jellies if you hit them 14:25:46 Grunt: I admit my lack of extended experince so I'm fine if you say it's relevant there. 14:25:48 ho ho ho 14:25:54 -!- Ququman has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:26:00 maybe instead make them -more- useful 14:26:06 !send wheals a golden gelatinous thing 14:26:07 they could act as !curing 14:26:13 oh 14:26:19 I forgot that was a sequellism 14:26:42 ontoclasm: make them cure draining 14:26:42 The point of this was to make it easier to remove food. 14:26:42 If we want more restored abilities, increase the number of potions. Same for curing. 14:26:43 :) 14:26:59 in theory non-potion restab is useful in cocytus 14:27:01 well if you're removing food then go for it 14:27:02 There is no need -- apart from coolness -- to duplicate potion effects in food. 14:27:05 except that it's not really 14:27:08 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20131216183647]] 14:27:24 Let's say it's a buff to Sustain Abilities :) 14:27:34 ontoclasm: I'm just trying to do noncontrosal simplifications first. 14:27:48 I don't think it would have a huge impact, but it would be a little silly 14:27:58 so this suggest ambrosia will be similarly examined 14:27:59 if you get rid of that effect, just get rid of royal jellies altogether 14:28:04 the food 14:28:05 sure, why not 14:28:10 they have nothing else to distinguish themselves from e.g. honeycombs 14:28:40 literally the only reason to keep them around would be for the TRJ joke 14:28:45 (though it is a good joke) 14:28:53 dpeg: I would say any effect, would like to make amborsia into a "potions of ambrosia" 14:29:05 reaverb: I agree. 14:29:07 I never even remember royal jellies restore stats 14:29:10 so, shitty potion of magic 14:29:12 huh 14:29:17 -!- pirate_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:29:19 that could actually be a good badpotion 14:29:20 it restores much more mp than a potion of magic 14:29:20 unrand potions? 14:29:21 since restoring stats isn't really an issue unless you're a DD or doing tomb 14:29:27 replace confusion with ambrosia clearly 14:29:36 nonethousand: didn't know that! 14:29:38 * geekosaur is just being weird... 14:30:28 it's a very powerful effect whose utility would probably be better understood if they appeared in more than one place 14:30:48 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:59 Grunt: Any comment? Do you think a slight increase in !restab would compensate? 14:31:03 maybe !ambrosia could be something like: you regain mp quickly as long as you remain confused 14:31:20 so you can't just chug it and immediately follow with curing 14:31:31 nonethousand: My current thoought was to just replace were amborsia currently appears (except acquire I guess) with !amborsia 14:31:39 if you want the benefit, you have to endure some turns of confusion 14:31:51 not much reason to compensate since most games don't even see a royal jelly 14:31:53 And don't even spawn it natrually, it can become a bad potion later if it's good. 14:32:04 nonethousand: acquirement! 14:32:16 reaverb: so to speak 14:32:26 but I'd be fine with that, yes 14:32:44 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:58 ontoclasm: I'm not sure that's a big problem. Two turns for the mp regen effect can be significant (ambrosia then curing, clarity->ambrosial->remove clarity) and there's the issue of conveying this information 14:32:58 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:07 ambrosia status light 14:33:08 hm 14:33:30 could make the confusion unblockable by clarity if !ambrosia is too strong otherwise, but that's an ugly solution 14:33:42 idk. I'd wait and see if people actually use it 14:33:44 replace ambrosia with potion of elixir 14:34:05 personally, I'm okay with it being very rare and very strong (but maybe it's too rare) 14:34:09 potion of random effects 14:34:57 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:58 ontoclasm: interesting idea! 14:35:34 Just to be clear: So dpeg, wheals and I are fine with removing !restab, Grunt doesn't like it? 14:35:55 Grunt: Oh, and thanks for fixing that vault, by the way. 14:35:59 wait, removing !restab 14:36:01 royal jelly is nice acquirement if youre in pan or something and dont find restab 14:36:01 don't you mean royal jellies 14:36:08 since otherwise you cant acquire restore abilities 14:36:13 i don't mind food having potion effects seeing as potions have food effects 14:36:16 i notice this most often with dd which makes sense 14:36:17 reaverb: seems like it 14:36:22 ie blood and porridge 14:36:32 porridge is such a silly potion 14:36:37 I guess it's needed for gozag now 14:36:52 (Porridge could not randomly generate.) 14:36:52 reaverb: and I assume you mean "remove !restab effect from royal jelly" 14:36:56 Grunt: yes possibly 14:37:00 dpeg: Yes. 14:37:03 -!- Spatzist_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:20 food with potion effects is a valid design space for things that you want to use in combat, since it takes extra time 14:37:27 which is one of the reasons ambrosia is interesting 14:37:37 you rarely want to restore abilities in combat 14:37:38 PleasingFungus: actually it takes 1 turn to eat >_> 14:37:42 whaaa 14:37:44 Ha. 14:37:48 whaaaaaa 14:37:52 well 14:37:54 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:37:55 I used it to kill TRJ once 14:37:56 it's an interesting design space 14:37:59 but completely unexplored I guess 14:38:01 PleasingFungus: Maybe if it's so little used making it into a potion doesn't matter. 14:38:05 PleasingFungus: in principle, yes 14:38:07 yeah, 1 turn eating is sort of silly 14:38:21 reaverb: yeah I'm fine with !ambrosia and the removal of royal jellies 14:38:22 fast food 14:38:27 how about: royal jelly takes the same time to eat as normal food, but is like !restab and !curing at once 14:38:28 also rename honeycombs to royal jellies 14:38:33 PleasingFungus: Also I think a new consumable would work for that. 14:38:40 so you keep the dumb pun 14:38:47 reaverb: a new consumable? 14:39:00 does anyone know where the crawl unified installer keeps user-specific files? (saves, morgue, etc) 14:39:03 alternately just make royal jelly the ultimate food; it makes you engorged no matter what 14:39:21 Pleasingfungus: Err, you could just make a potions which paralysises you for a couple turns and then gives you a buff. 14:39:36 If you wanted the explore the "time investment option" 14:39:38 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:39 reaverb: but now you're adding new mechanics instead of using the ones already in the game 14:39:48 i.e.: food consumption time 14:39:49 Eating already reducing your EV! 14:39:50 * dpeg recalls how he got Int+1 from a Nethack cram ration once, and then wondered why it never happened again. 14:40:18 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 14:40:36 PleasingFungus: How is having a potion give paralisys and, say, quad damage not using effects already in the game? 14:40:44 Spatzist_: i think it says when you start up the game where the save directory is 14:40:48 dpeg: Are you sure you hadn't read ?hallucination first :) 14:40:55 thanks wheals 14:41:12 Grunt: Do you care enough about royal jellys restoring abilties you would like me to make a c-r-d email about it? 14:41:17 and when you dump (by pressing #) it also gives the directory 14:41:20 Maybe also with !ambrosia stuff. 14:41:26 sorry, that's !hallucination 14:41:40 gammafunk: yes. I learned much, much later that Int+1 is a really rare effect of cram rations. TDTTOE my ass. 14:42:20 I wasn't aware of that. What an obscure thing, even for nethack 14:43:07 (I just said this as a warning example about food effects. :) 14:43:39 gammafunk: perhaps it was randomly generated to be blessed. 14:45:23 reaverb: it has a time cost, and then an additional paralysis cost, and then whatever effect you actually want, vs: food, which everyone already knows* has a large time cost, and then the effect 14:45:40 so the potion is "paralysis + effect", whereas the food is "effect, on a food" 14:45:53 which seems simpler to learn + internalize 14:45:55 PleasingFungus: What gives you the idea everybody know food has a time cost? 14:46:03 That seems very unintutitve to me. 14:46:03 fwiw, I see absolutely no reason for royal jelly to exist if it doesn't have a special effect - it should just be replaced by more honeycombs then 14:46:11 well 14:46:18 the first time you try to eat food with an enemy nearby 14:46:24 elliptic: But would you support removing replacing them with honeycombs? 14:46:26 you learn "oh shit, that was a bad idea" 14:46:30 and then you internalize and generalize it 14:46:32 royal jelly, unrand food item 14:46:37 even to cases where it's not true 14:46:42 Jellyform 14:46:53 ref e.g. my confusion over ambrosia time cost 14:47:29 reaverb: I don't feel strongly about that one way or another -- I wish there were fewer distinct types of food, but fruit/sausage/pizza are much more objectionable in that respect 14:47:31 I think one thing about removing royal jelly is that you can no longer ?acquire and get a source of restore abilities 14:47:41 elliptic: Ok, thanks. 14:47:48 clearly it's time for /restab 14:48:08 gammafunk: Yes, can you bring up a case where somebody has done that? 14:48:10 yes, because I really want to get something completely useless when acquiring wands :p 14:48:20 reaverb: once, I did that 14:48:32 if you're asking what might cause it, the answer is usually XXX 14:48:50 or being a deep dwarf 14:48:52 since prolonged use of that leads to lack of int 14:48:53 If you guys suggest /restab, I feel compelled to counter with /nosepicking. 14:49:02 dpeg: the /restab suggestion was a joke 14:49:03 :P 14:49:08 my one was serious!!! 14:49:15 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:49:16 ew 14:49:29 haha 14:49:50 gammafunk: Hmm, I don't think that minor case it worth the complication. (Particuarly if this does lead to removing/goldifying food) 14:49:55 gammafunk: But that's a good point. 14:50:12 yeah, if stat drain was removed or reduced on the spell, I'd care less 14:50:43 gammafunk: what's wrong with tying XXX usefulness to !restab resources? 14:50:45 Of course, potion acquirement would allow that but also have other stuff. That's been rejected in the past thought. 14:50:47 would be nice to see stat drain just either go away or become some more interesting mechanic, but then again there's a vague "stat improvement" proposal 14:50:51 I think the main relevance of royal jellies having restab is that they are indestructible, and item destruction is hopefully going away anyway 14:51:05 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-757-g76b35fc: First batch of icons 10(3 days ago, 33 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=76b35fcb5066 14:51:05 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-758-g7e895c2: Good god invoc icons 10(3 days ago, 16 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e895c200296 14:51:05 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-759-g77be142: Gozag/Qazlal invo icons 10(16 hours ago, 6 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=77be142a8199 14:51:05 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-760-ge933a1a: Numerous spell icons (roctavian) 10(26 minutes ago, 23 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e933a1afc7d6 14:51:05 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-761-ge02b2c0: A few derivative spell icons 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e02b2c0f54f8 14:51:05 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-834-gd31242b: Merge branch 'spellicons' 10(2 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d31242b35b60 14:51:33 Yes, so royal jellys are tying together three systems - item desctruction, food, and stat drain - that we're working on simplifying or removing. 14:51:55 dpeg: I've never cared for that connection much to be honest; even using =sustab you can run into problems, and it's more annoying than anything 14:52:11 ontoclasm: (By the way I would have rebase that because it's a trival merge, but a merge is fine) 14:53:07 well probably any change should wait until we've actually addressed those three things; we haven't addressed a single one 14:53:21 hey I have a philosophical question for any C++ experts in here who are game 14:53:41 Wensley: ##C++-general would be a better place for that. 14:53:41 or C++ non-experts too, not like I can tell the difference anyway 14:53:42 dpeg: re: the cram ration story: was that vanilla 3.4.3? 14:53:54 reaverb: but I trust the people in here more :P 14:54:07 also I haven't heard of ##c++-general, just ##c++ 14:54:09 gamamfunk: I view it as the opposite. Simplifying systems allows for easy decisions to be made on those systems. 14:54:11 I might quietly suggest that royal jellies also " 14:54:22 question multi turn actions 14:54:31 along with the 3 things reaver mentions 14:54:53 nooodl: no, 3.2.something. 14:55:17 Hmm, I need to handle something quickly, I'll be back soon. 14:55:30 nonethousand: can you rephrase that? I'm a little confused 14:55:48 reaverb: The deicsions aren't going to come down to royal jellies really, I think you'll only end up breaking things sooner, or you'll have to tweak other things now and likely undo those tweaks later when we actually address the core issues 14:56:21 reaverb: i... don't really know much about rebasing other than how to do it 14:56:37 i thought it was for when the merge would fail to work 14:56:56 or when you needed to update the branch with stuff that happened on master 14:57:05 PleasingFungus: you rbought up how food has an easily expressed tactical issue that is its taking more than one turn to eat. I do think this is probably more elegant than making a potion paralyse you for 2 turns, however there is some contention whether multi-turn actions have much of a place at all 14:57:53 see armour swapping 14:58:50 ah 14:59:34 I think armour swapping being multi-turn is important, because it discourages carrying around spares to swap in like jewellery 14:59:43 jewellery swapping is fiddly enough as is! 14:59:50 idk I haven't read the discussion about it though 15:00:58 solution: remove jewellery 15:01:15 solution: praise ashenzari 15:01:16 nobody can spell it properly anyway :P 15:01:46 Fun fact: ring swapping takes longer in real life than most other actions. 15:03:01 well, putting on a suit of plate armour by yourself is effectively impossible, so 15:03:03 yet another failure of realism in crawl. 15:04:04 ??realism 15:05:00 is as present as sequell, clearly 15:06:00 -!- drachereborn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:09:16 ontoclasm: That's not really what rebases are for, I'll tell you more about them in msg if you want. 15:09:31 Was that local branch you merge? In that case you should always rebase. 15:09:32 bad idea of the day: an unbelievably rare book with every level 9 spell in it 15:09:44 Lightli: It already exists 15:09:51 I think. 15:09:53 Lightli: there are randbooks with fixed spell level already. 15:09:57 oh 15:10:21 (a level 9 one wouldn't even be all that ridiculous because of how exp intensive those are) 15:11:20 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 15:11:49 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:28 gammafunk: Well, I think the ultimate answer to food will be "minimize it's presence in the game", and everything else will just be decisions on how to do that. The biggest danger to this is getting analysis paralysis on how to remove such a complex system. By removing complexity I'm greasing the wheels for when the big change hits. 15:12:45 Lightli: randbooks either share skills (one or two), or a level. I don't think you can get all level 9 spells in one book, though. 15:12:55 oh 15:13:25 oh yeah, because randbooks (unless Sif-given) can't have Annihilations/Grand Grimoire/Necronomicon stuff in them 15:15:05 -!- fooobarrr has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:15:23 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:35 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:16:49 Ok, I'm going to push removing restore abilties from royal jellies. 15:17:56 reaverb: I don't like leaving things in a broken state so we can take an easy action now, though. The removal of chunks is not a trivial solution to solve, and nor is reworking stats for that matter. 15:18:19 gammafunk: In this example, what would be the "broken state" 15:18:45 well 15:18:48 Only one source of restoreab when we have a spell directly tied to requiring its use 15:19:08 literally everyone agreed "if you're going to remove restore abilities from royal jellies, you might as well just remove them" 15:19:26 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:19:29 so I'm a little confused about why you're removing restore abilities from royal jellies 15:19:31 gammafunk: You can also stack two levels of restore abilties 15:19:42 gammafunk: but royal jellies are a really rare item! 15:19:52 reaverb: you mean sustain abilities, and that assumes you manage to find two sustab rings 15:19:57 PleasingFungus: minimal modification, I think. 15:19:58 I've had games where I didn't find one 15:20:08 dpeg: but in what way does it actually improve the game? 15:20:10 dpeg: well I usually find a few each game; and most importantly you can acquire it if you need it 15:20:12 that's what's perplexing me 15:20:14 PleasingFungus: but that's good: different games ==> different solutions 15:20:19 PleasingFungus: Well I've had games were I didn't find !restoreabil or royal jellys 15:20:24 dpeg: well, right now, there would be no soutions 15:20:30 *solutions 15:20:38 need !solution 15:20:38 gammafunk: ?acquire isn't guarenteed either. 15:20:50 I don't believe you folks that your XXX use is tied to royal jellies. 15:21:10 PleasingFungus: Same reason I removed Shedu from holy pan before remvoing them entirely. There's no reason not to push a minor change if the bigger one will take more time. 15:21:22 reaverb: there is if it leaves the game in a worse state than when you started 15:21:35 dpeg: in 15-rune with heavy use it can be a big deal; I'm not saying at all that removing royal jelly can't happen, but just that we should consider the effects 15:21:36 if reaverb removed pizzas right now because they're arguably pointless, then we'd get a bonus debate for nothing 15:21:39 PleasingFungus: I would argue this does not so I guess that is where we differ. 15:21:43 I'd be fine with removing pizza 15:21:46 so best to keep the item minus the function, imo 15:21:50 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:21:51 remove pizza?! never! 15:22:05 dpeg: why 15:22:17 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:22:24 yeah I don't much see why royal jelly should exist without restore ab effect; if the latter is removed, def. remove the food 15:22:35 and there's no need to remove the effect before removing the item 15:22:40 they're independent commits 15:22:41 we have !porridge for one-turn engorge 15:22:44 I am sure a "cut down food types" commit will come. One step after the other! 15:22:49 there's no 'groundwork' to be laid 15:22:54 it's just totally pointless 15:23:06 no, b/c that one will have its own discussion 15:23:29 You know, it might just be easiest just to send out a c-r-d email on potion effects on food. 15:23:36 'remove restore abilities from royal jellies' is 'remove royal jellies and add a new, useless food type' 15:23:39 reaverb: and this is the *easy* part of chunkless :) 15:23:51 reaverb: yes. 15:24:03 we still don't have a great plan for chunkless, or has someone come up with one? 15:24:09 dpeg: Ok, I'll write one up. I'll probably mention updating halftone too. 15:24:16 wonderful, many thanks! 15:24:21 Hmm, should see how techincally feasible that is first. 15:24:36 We sure have a plan! How could we not have a plan? 15:24:45 -!- DaneiTHREE has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:50 I said a *great* plan :) 15:25:11 gammafunk: at some point we will talk about permafood generation, yes. 15:25:13 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:18 !!!!!! 15:25:40 once we figure out generally how to do (mostly) no chunks, the rest is pretty easy 15:25:49 I suggest to increase is generously, and then slowly start reducing it (release by release) until we're happy. 15:25:54 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:10 Yes, it will cause pain and outcries, and we should be prepared for it. 15:26:14 permafood generation does not seem like the complicated part of chunkless 15:26:25 elliptic: what do you think it will be? 15:26:34 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:19 I would prefer to hear what the plan is for the current food-based differentiation between species - just remove it all? 15:27:21 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:38 elliptic: I don't think there really is a plan yet >_> 15:27:53 Besides "Tr, Vp, and Gh should stay the same" 15:27:57 did dpeg lie to us 15:28:12 -!- Tenda has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:28:15 I would like to see dpeg's plan, is it that old Tavern thread? 15:28:24 or the other old Tavern thread? 15:28:27 honestly, I'd get rid of ko if they can't eat chunks. at that point they wouldn't have anything interesting to distinguish themselves from ha at all. 15:28:38 -!- Danei has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:41 PleasingFungus: again, that's the second step before the first one. 15:28:48 Combine Ko with Ha :D 15:29:00 well I don't think we can take a first step without some sort of a plan for what to do with species 15:29:08 right 15:29:17 doesn't help that each species does it differently 15:29:26 obviously that can change later with testing and stuff, but we need some starting point 15:29:29 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:04 I originally thought of it like this: herbivore etc. stays (in particular Sp herbi3); there is herbivorous/carnivorous permafood (as of now); we increase permafood generation so that nothing changes for Sp but carnivores find more stuff on the ground. 15:30:21 |amethyst made a pretty radical proposal yesterday, and perhaps we should be even bolder. 15:30:44 My concept was really just to replace chunks by pre-generated carni-permafood on the ground. 15:31:05 It'd be a nerf because you couldn't grind chunks, but it'd be a huge interface gain, and we can tweak food generation as we like. 15:31:25 I don't have a clue what "grind chunks" means 15:31:36 elliptic: e.g. leave sheep alive in Lair 15:31:48 In other words: replicate status quo with chunk -> permafood. 15:31:51 literally nobody does that :P 15:32:00 but it is in some sense "optimal" 15:32:01 elliptic: I have done that. 15:32:02 so what about fast/slow metabolism? 15:32:04 which is bad 15:32:05 because it's dumb 15:32:22 then again it's probably not optimal because you don't want to be surrounded by sheep while fleeing a hydra 15:32:24 so idk 15:32:26 Here was my thought: There's a mutation that raises your hunger Max. We move the hunger max down. Carnivores and Sp get the Max mutation. Everything else becomes like spriggans except A) Less permafood generation B) said lower hunger max. 15:32:28 elliptic: I thought we keep all of this, but it seems development was faster than that. 15:32:57 Oh, and the Tr Vp Gh stay the same. 15:32:59 well that was only for random mutations 15:34:03 reaverb: hunger max = maximal nutrition level? 15:34:10 dpeg: yes 15:34:11 dpeg: *some* change has to be made for Tr for this to work at all if they can't eat chunks 15:34:14 -!- umrain has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:22 elliptic: I'm fine with Tr eating chunks. 15:34:27 chunks supposed to stay for Tr Gh 15:34:29 even just reducing their fast metab to something more reasonable 15:34:31 why for Tr? 15:34:48 it isn't like Tr eating chunks is interesting 15:34:48 because it will make them really different, they have little else to do, and we can change them later 15:34:54 "really different"... 15:34:58 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:35:01 berserk? 15:35:06 ??? 15:35:10 yeah, for Gh they at least get other effects 15:35:15 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:19 well, they'd basically be the current food system, which is pretty different from the hypothetical new chunkless system 15:35:25 PleasingFungus: yes 15:35:44 if we don't like it, we can change Tr later, but I have a feeling they will be feel more different 15:35:56 PleasingFungus: I thought the whole point of this was that dpeg et al think the current system is bad 15:36:04 -!- Galewind has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:36:19 elliptic: You seem to be in an aggressive mood. Shall we reconvene later? 15:36:26 uh 15:36:43 tone is really hard to read on the internet 15:36:49 I am trying to figure out what the plan is like, because I haven't noticed any of this being discussed here :) 15:36:54 I think elliptic just doesn't want our changed system to be worse than what we have 15:36:59 that is a good goal 15:37:14 I thought there was a concensus that the chunk minigame is lots of keypresses for little gameplay gain. Do we actually agree on that? 15:37:23 dpeg: Agreed. 15:37:24 dpeg: then why do you want to keep it for trolls? 15:37:32 since they have the most keypresses of all 15:37:48 gammafunk: well, I think changes like this are worthing considering/trying 15:37:51 PleasingFungus: they can eat up to max. 15:37:57 s/worthing/worth/ 15:38:01 yes, as do I 15:38:01 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:38:15 but I don't like the idea that Tr is "old crawl's food system" 15:38:29 we have Gh for eating chunks (and you get an interesting effect) 15:38:32 old crawl's food system except with more permafood, presumably 15:38:33 otoh, food does matter sometimes (spells, berserk early on, if you dawdle later -- I know what I am talking about) 15:38:43 sure 15:38:48 that's why this is so hard to balance 15:38:55 Personally, I'd just raise the 15:39:00 chunk eating limit by one. 15:39:02 if you're going to try to make food matter both for blasters and for MiFi or w/e 15:39:10 (For everyone) (or I guess lower it) 15:39:11 My main point is to get rid of the interface nonsense. 15:39:32 PleasingFungus: You know, maybe it would be good to remove chunk eating for Tr in same swoop as the rest. I just don't want Tr to hold us back. 15:39:34 the simplest solution would be to make auto_butcher and auto_eat_chunks the default, no? 15:39:43 And at the same point make the food clock potentially tighter (potentially b/c our choice to rule permafood generation) 15:39:51 I mean, if interface is the only problem. (begging the question there, of course.0 15:39:56 PleasingFungus: no, I don't think so. 15:39:58 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:40:12 there are a lot of potential balance issues, yes, though they won't be fully apparent before testing so I haven't brought up some worries I have 15:40:13 You could just let trolls eat corpses whole, like vampires... 15:40:33 elliptic: We have some kind of experience with permafood only in Spriggans, so I am not really worried. 15:40:54 yeah maybe if we can just get a specific plan for, well I guess Ko/Tr/Vp/Gh 15:41:08 Gh would keep chunk eating for sure, I think? 15:41:27 these have special stuff, so I thought it'd be much easier for everyone to just leave them alone for now 15:41:43 if we're happy with permafood-only, either change them too, or devise something different 15:41:56 The talk should be about the bulk of species, imo, not about the outliers. 15:42:13 Well we don't want to break any of these species 15:42:19 dpeg: btw, have you considered the negative things about no-chunk interface? 15:42:22 Perhaps Tr is the only problematic one 15:42:37 elliptic: what is it? 15:42:52 gammafunk: well, assuming you're fine with getting rid of ko 15:43:07 Ko isn't very problematic though 15:43:13 even now people think it's similar to ha 15:43:26 I guess I will write a c-r-d mail on the matter. Actually, I wanted to start with one, but then the branch already existed. :) 15:43:27 without being able to eat to satiated, it'd just have nothing 15:43:28 dpeg: e.g. loss of nutrition from eating permafood at close to engorged, not having any reason not to animate dead every corpse, etc 15:43:53 I mean I'd be fine with ko going, though I do like the species. I don't think it should block chunkless 15:43:53 PleasingFungus: the apts are the main difference between them already 15:44:09 elliptic: I don't buy the "choice of corpse use between prayer/food/zombie". It's almost a non-choice, ime. 15:44:25 sure, it is already an issue 15:44:29 dpeg: it does come up with oka 15:44:31 but it would become more clearly an issue 15:44:55 also with trog I guess 15:44:59 elliptic: we get *real* decisions in return, so no, I am not worried. 15:45:01 dpeg: to expand on the first thing, there is absolutely no reason not to eat permafood if you are sure that no nutrition will be wasted 15:45:11 dpeg: for spriggans etc 15:45:22 elliptic: already now, and does it make Sp worse? 15:45:27 PleasingFungus: I have never seen it come up with Oka. Far more significant is me making typos and saracificing corpses it was obvious I should have kept. 15:45:27 dpeg: but to know whether nutrition might be wasted, you need to know the numbers of how much nutrition each type of food gives 15:45:39 so it is pretty awful interface-wise 15:45:45 is there a nutrition max? 15:45:47 yes 15:45:48 yes 15:45:52 never realised that 15:45:57 elliptic: you rather keep pressing a thousand keystrokes? 15:46:16 you never said what was wrong with auto_butcher and auto_eat_chunks, I think 15:46:21 elliptic: this is a trivial detail, really. 15:46:23 dpeg: I'm not saying these interface issues are blockers or anything, just pointing out them as things to consider 15:46:26 I'm sure you've already addressed that somewhere 15:46:31 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:48 PleasingFungus: they just paper over the problem, and don't help to make food relevant at all. 15:47:04 dpeg: I'd appreciate not having my interface issues dismissed as "trivial" while you are complaining about your own, thanks 15:47:21 well, if the problem is the interface, and then you use a setting that removes that problem 15:47:25 I don't see what the issues is 15:47:32 elliptic: regarding over-stuffing: display a HUD status when you're too full to use a ration fully. Problem solved. 15:47:44 not all food is a ration (unfortunately) 15:47:47 ellitpic: Eventually I want goldify permafood, in which case eating permafood would only have one setting. 15:47:47 what is the reason for the nutrition max, anyway? 15:47:53 elliptic: but ration is max 15:48:03 wheals: Hmm, that is a very good question. 15:48:08 indeed 15:48:13 but you can still eat fruit etc 15:48:24 i suppose even without it you'd want to eat as soon as you stop being engorged 15:48:28 which isn't great 15:48:46 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:54 wheals: why this urge to gulp down stuff all the time? To save on inventory slots? We carry lots more food items right now! 15:49:05 wheals: Eh, hunger ghosts exist enough I'm not sure that's ture. 15:49:08 dpeg: so that you are less likely to run out in a battle? 15:49:13 hungry ghosts are quite uncommon 15:49:44 Yes, but there's also little advantage to constantly eating up to Engorged. 15:49:47 seriously, if you are running around at below full on a spriggan currently, you are doing something wrong 15:49:54 Hmm, maybe it isn't enough. 15:49:57 i guess goldifying is one option -- i was never quite sure why brogue didn't do that 15:50:25 goldifying is fine 15:50:47 There's actually only a couple snags left before a patch could be made. 15:50:48 how exactly would goldifying food work? 15:51:05 I can think of a couple things that could be meant by that 15:51:05 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:51:19 yeah, i realize that it's ambiguous and what i meant wasn't really clear 15:51:23 elliptic: You pick up food. add the nutrition to a food number (like gold). When you hit "e" with no chunks, you can eat some of your perma-food. 15:51:43 Which reduces the food number but gives you nutrition. 15:51:47 assuming no functional food exists, the only question is about fruits 15:51:54 dpeg: Yes, those are the two snags. 15:52:13 reaverb: why do you have two separate food meters? what's distinct about the "nutrition" number and the "permafood" number? 15:52:14 Just give fedhas a differant item the fact it's fruit never matters anyway. 15:52:14 reaverb: I don't see the advantage of goldified food over having exactly one type of food "ration" 15:52:43 differences are minor, yes 15:52:46 PleasingFungus: that's the other possibility, but that removes the possibility of running out of nutrition during a fight 15:52:48 i was thinking of having a nutrition number that just went as far up as it could, yeah 15:52:59 elliptic: I'd be fine with that too. 15:53:02 which makes berserk/other high-hunger effects much stronger 15:53:02 though what elliptic says is the main change there 15:53:17 good answer 15:53:23 this doesn't make it necessarily a bad idea (it would be a good interface at least) 15:53:38 and i didn't think of that (i guess this issue is deeper than i thought!) 15:53:39 but it would be a pretty substantial change 15:53:39 (Which is why you have to "e" the abstract rations in my example. Changing that can come later) 15:54:13 What if you're "ration number" constantly counts down but your "nutrition number" actually goes up at the same rate. 15:54:24 Usually the only time you run out right now is if you are living off chunks (and therefore don't get that far past hungry) and then fire off a lot of high hunger spells or berserk 15:54:27 And the nutrition only starts going down if your "ration number" hits zero. 15:54:30 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 15:55:04 SwissStopwatch: that does happen, though, and it can present interesting situations 15:55:06 -!- Whales has quit [Quit: homeward bound] 15:55:13 -!- Galewind_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:55:16 my last couple chars kept entering 'starving' during fights because of questionable tactical decisions 15:55:18 it was fun 15:55:29 I would also say that mostly that happens in earlier stages of the game, too 15:56:08 reaverb: it is bad if the only way to fill up your nutrition is to press 5 though, so you'd probably still need 'e' 15:56:22 idk about that. high-level high-food-cost spells are a thing for all of a 3-rune game, at the least 15:56:25 and berzerk never stops being a thing 15:56:57 elliptic: Yes, also an 'e' which acclerates the effect. Ideally it should be less efficent so you don't have to press it often. 15:57:13 And I thought the major balance change of chunkless would be about spellcasting. 15:58:12 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]] 15:58:22 berserk definitely stops being a thing that you should do a lot over the course of a 3 rune game 15:58:43 SwissStopwatch: yes, but casting high-hunger spells does not 15:59:03 and there is where I expected major implications of the change 15:59:07 yeah, later on it is mainly if you have a high-level spell without really high int or are worshipping ely 15:59:07 But they drop in hunger cost as you train spellcasting/raise int, and you shouldn't need to cast them -that- many times 15:59:31 I mean, hungerless fire storm isn't a thing that most characters can get that plausibly 15:59:38 SwissStopwatch: I am expecting good things from chunkless, including more thoughts/decisions, but it will lead to some player complaints 15:59:41 -!- tali713 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:17 I would say that there's some risk of having to gauge just how much hunger you can be using on spells, but not really having a good way of doing it 16:00:33 You could *not* spam your major spell anymore with 8 giant chunks in the bag, knowing the food cost is only formal 16:00:42 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:58 except |energy 16:01:02 SwissStopwatch: I expect people to worry more about getting lower-level spells to hungerless though (as they do currently with spriggan conjurer-types) 16:01:03 gammafunk: sure 16:01:14 you can't chop up monsters to make |energy 16:01:27 wood golems 16:01:41 gammafunk: but that's a choice in itself (assuming you have the item) 16:01:41 Possibly one balance implication is that certain extremely strong L1 spells that already make their backgrounds attractive become even better, relatively 16:01:49 energy golems; they leave permafood piles on death 16:02:20 SwissStopwatch: yes. I expect the chunkless change to be massive enough to warrant further tweaks, if we decide it's a good change 16:02:21 meat golem? 16:02:30 And the backgrounds that have bad L1 spells that you seek to quickly leave behind... well, those get worse, of course. 16:02:45 nethack does allow you to make large meatballs; perhaps we should import that feature 16:02:53 dpeg: yeah, if we want to enforce that, we may need to dial back the effect of |energy, but that can happen pretty easilly 16:02:59 or adom-esque farming! 16:03:09 Where do all the bad proposals come from? 16:03:17 our imaginations! 16:03:18 other roguelikes, apparently 16:03:35 dpeg: is that a philosophical question :) 16:03:44 yes! 16:03:54 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:04:09 <|amethyst> from players 16:04:19 -!- scummos| has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:31 from committers 16:04:42 <|amethyst> heh 16:05:40 from people who don't play the game 16:06:39 -!- drag0n__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:06:47 dpeg: I'd argue that there already is a real food cost for spamming major spells; I've found myself quite short on food in games where I'm doing a lot of high-level blasting & haven't been able to invest enough in spellcasting 16:06:49 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:07:25 PleasingFungus: I am short on food in all games that get to Zot. This doesn't make chunks a good mechanic :) 16:07:34 I've never had that issue on a non-felid 16:07:40 chunks are awful 16:07:52 that doesn't mean that anything that replaces chunks will be better than them, though 16:07:53 mostly because they last only a little bit until you're hungry again 16:07:54 Yes, I play excruciatingly slow. 16:07:56 (and even that happened only because every point put into spellcasting was a point not in fighting/dodging/conj/fire) 16:08:10 chunks may be non-ideal, but it's certainly easy to think of replacements that will be worse 16:08:26 gardening 16:08:29 PleasingFungus: thanks for the confidence! 16:08:30 and I'm not convinced that the current proposal (such as it is - so vague, so many things undefined!) will not be one of those things 16:08:32 haha 16:08:35 I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be rude 16:09:26 ??devteam[11] 16:09:26 devteam[11/14]: <@dpeg> Wensley: players cursing == their way of complimenting the devteam 16:09:41 I said that? Whatever, it's still true. 16:09:47 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Using leafChat 2] 16:09:50 it's a good line 16:10:11 maybe the entire learndb has turned into ??lying 16:10:21 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:10:41 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:10:49 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:11:04 wheals: gardening is fun! 16:11:15 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:17 !lg gammafunk farmer 16:11:18 3. gammafunk the Farming Annihilator (L27 FeCK of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-07-21 23:04:53, with 7406208 points after 250008 turns and 1d+19:48:21. 16:11:23 feh 16:11:24 dunked 16:11:46 This should be "gammafunk the Annihilating Farmer". 16:12:07 I would accept either title 16:12:10 farmer annihilator 16:12:33 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:12:35 |amethyst: should any of b26498d2 2251764b b59056a6 be backported to 0.14? 16:12:40 they each cherry-pick cleanly 16:12:49 neocromancy? summoning? no. today, we grow killer plants! 16:12:56 -!- surprisetrex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:06 hail fedhas 16:14:18 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:18 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:33 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: hm, for 225176 I worry about that making someone's abyss spring up walls all of a sudden 16:16:41 %git 225176 16:16:47 07floatingatoll02 {|amethyst} * 0.15-a0-200-g2251764: dgn-proclayouts.cc: fix DNGN_SLIMY_WALL, DNGN_UNSEEN switch fallthroughs 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2251764b3164 16:17:12 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: but that's probably not a big deal since it's the abyss and will drift anyway 16:17:29 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:17:51 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: b26498d2 I see no reason not to apply to 0.14 16:18:04 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: not sure about b59056a though 16:18:14 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:19 * floatingatoll incapable of deciding on all of them 16:18:29 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:50 -!- pirate_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:19:00 the abyss one might be risky if it's affecting actual composition of level and not just displayed features 16:19:24 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: yes, this is for when the Abyss makes a layout "based off" another real level 16:19:28 planerend similarly high risk for "i saved in X and then i loaded" and i have no idea what actually this code is being used for. 16:19:44 the naga hair color patch is probably safe :) 16:19:49 <|amethyst> yeah :) 16:19:56 * floatingatoll closes out a list of 3 questions 16:20:22 * floatingatoll runs a test on 0.14.1 for clang warnings 16:20:25 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:53 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:17 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:23 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.14 16:23:25 dgn-overview.cc unused functions 'place_desc', 'altar_description' for a couple years now iirc 16:25:11 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:25:19 floatingatoll: I got |amethyst to fix that the other day 16:25:24 oh cool 16:25:24 I think it was amethyst 16:25:27 anyway it was great 16:25:32 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:34 Maybe it was bh? 16:25:38 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:25:42 yay! 16:25:44 oh 16:25:45 maybe it was bh 16:25:51 when in doubt blame grunt 16:26:02 PleasingFungus: You can always look through the logs 16:26:04 ./directn.h:239:10: warning: private field 'may_target_monster' is not used [-Wunused-private-field] 16:26:20 <|amethyst> you're doing this in 0.14 ? 16:26:26 I'm looking through the commits instead 16:26:27 <|amethyst> Don't bother looking for non-bug things in 0.14 16:26:30 speaking of |amethyst 16:26:33 0.14.1, but it's been around forever. i'll switch up to 0.15, where it was when i checked last month 16:26:36 (maybe it's fixed now!) 16:26:39 floatingatoll: Yes I would recommend looking in master. 16:26:41 did you guys shoot down the ring of augmentation idea 16:26:49 yeah, i normally do. just checking for new switch errors in 0.14.1 first :) 16:26:51 Bloax: Did that idea exist? when? 16:26:52 %git 9b1c3d9a4c8233993f73d0cec347e3d6e7de70f2 16:26:52 07bh02 * 0.15-a0-751-g9b1c3d9: Remove more dead code 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 0+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b1c3d9a4c82 16:26:54 it was bh 16:26:55 yaay 16:26:56 hooray 16:26:56 bh++ 16:27:17 <|amethyst> Bloax: no one opposed, but no one really in favour either 16:27:18 reaverb: He randomly mentioned a "what if rings of str/int/dex were merged into one?" little idea. 16:27:29 Bloax: Oh, that, I don't like it. 16:27:34 'brand of dexterity' 16:27:37 <|amethyst> oh, well, someone opposed 16:28:04 That was probaby too blunt. 16:28:12 well, weightless, when it's finished will make us revisit str at least 16:28:21 -!- scummos| has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:28:24 Bloax: So it hasn't really been discussed. 16:28:28 I guess. 16:28:37 stat overhaul is a general todo item as well, so the rings will likely be addressed 16:28:37 i think the code is warning-free now, btw, with those various fixes 16:28:50 floatingatoll: Ha, that's a good joke. 16:28:51 (except for crt_width/height which are intentional) 16:29:09 reaverb: well, clang won't even *compile* with -Wall because it exceeds some default threshold of "X warnings == fatal" 16:29:16 i have to remember how i hacked around that 16:29:23 but you know, progress 16:29:25 floatingatoll: Yes. 16:29:26 hahaha 16:29:30 "no unexpected warnings at the default warn level" 16:32:14 -!- FourHTwoA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:32:31 i can bring "not cynical about the possibility of fixing all warnings" to the table, even if it takes me weeks at a time 16:32:52 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:52 floatingatoll: That would be incredible. 16:32:54 |amethyst: wanted to get your opinion on the following as a pre-commit hook: http://sprunge.us/gbiZ 16:33:05 Althought remeber the 80/20 rule. 16:33:12 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:17 in that, bad-commit.pl is the perl script that we have currently in the source as a pre-commit hook example 16:34:39 reaverb: well, i have been :) 16:34:50 that script could be made less silly, but it does do the check for merge conflict markers that haven't been removed 16:35:00 i went through the detailed -Wall list and checked most of them with either patches or discussion here 16:35:02 I don't like the duplication of checkwhite though 16:35:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I'd also do checkwhite -n 16:35:05 floatingatoll: Hmm, yes the default warn level is probably the first places warnings should be cleaned up. 16:35:10 yeah, taht's done now 16:35:13 <|amethyst> gammafunk: since that script doesn't duplicate everything checkwhite does 16:35:16 ./directn.h:238:10: warning: private field 'may_target_monster' is not used [-Wunused-private-field] 16:35:19 still in 0.15 master 16:35:21 ok, sounds reasonable 16:35:21 -!- nooodl_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:27 <|amethyst> gammafunk: also, not sure about this $? -eq 0 thing 16:35:32 but really, that's it. it's clean now. :) 16:35:33 floatingatoll: I'll look at it. 16:35:33 <|amethyst> gammafunk: when would that happen? 16:35:43 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I mean, when would HEAD not exist 16:35:51 the crt_width/crt_height i think we decided were intentional to avoid insanity later 16:35:52 |amethyst: yeah, that's copied from the perl script 16:36:05 tilesdl.cc:886:18: warning: unused variable 'crt_width' [-Wunused-const-variable] 16:36:06 I don't fully know what that'sabout 16:36:18 * floatingatoll doesn't quite know how they could be fully unused const and later altered, though. 16:36:31 wasn't that in an external dependency? 16:36:38 maybe I'll just remove that, and clean up the perl script 16:36:41 I know I see that whenever I compile for tiles 16:36:53 well, it's just two lines in tilesdl.cc 16:36:57 I think the checkwhite functionality duplication should also go 16:36:59 i dunno if that's 'external' or not. 16:37:07 maybe it's not 16:37:09 -!- scummos| has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:12 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:17 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: I don't remember those coming up 16:37:17 but on the list of "warnings that matter" vs "not", it's at the bottom of the list :) 16:37:26 |amethyst: make APPLE_GCC=y NO_PKGCONFIG=y CONTRIB_SDL=y TILES=y 16:37:49 you might need -Wunused-const-variable and clang, unsure. 16:37:58 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: I mean, I don't remember anyone saying "those should be kept" 16:38:01 oh. 16:38:05 <|amethyst> they're static 16:38:17 <|amethyst> so can't possibly be referred to outside that file 16:38:20 maybe i forgot to discuss that one. 16:38:41 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:40:26 %git fdd1f71e756ef7e8515f7566e00200984b2d8367 16:40:28 07Keskitalo02 * 0.7.0-a0-305-gfdd1f71: Rewrite of TilesFramework::do_layout(). 10(4 years, 3 months ago, 1 file, 113+ 107-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fdd1f71e756e 16:40:38 -!- MiraclePrism has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:11 that's the commit that removed consideration of crt_width/crt_height, which were added in 16:41:14 %git af3cd3ff 16:41:15 07Enne02 * 0.5-a0-61-gaf3cd3f: Large tiles-related changes. Platform-specific rendering removed and replaced with SDL/OpenGL. 10(6 years ago, 70 files, 10736+ 14540-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af3cd3ff34ef 16:41:33 huh 16:41:39 good vestigial variables 16:41:48 well. consts. 16:42:05 there was an intermediate patch in there somewhere to move them out of do_layout and into static const's at the toplevel 16:42:34 .. where they were only used by do_layout, i think? something about 'options'. i dunno. 16:43:12 death to all warnings! 16:47:36 that's it for warnings during compilation. :) 16:47:44 * floatingatoll turns on -Weverything and gets out a pitchfork 16:48:02 my god, it's full of stars 16:48:28 is weverything still separate from wpedantic 16:48:33 yes 16:48:35 in clang, anyways. 16:48:38 floatingatoll: Honestly I don't know enough about C++ to fix the directn.h error. 16:48:42 h 16:48:46 reaverb: yeah, it's beyond me 16:48:53 <|amethyst> which error is that? 16:49:00 <|amethyst> oh, private field 'may_target_monster' 16:49:07 |amethyst: Yes. 16:49:10 http://clang.llvm.org/docs/UsersManual.html#diagnostics-enable-everything claims it "also includes the warnings from -pedantic." 16:49:14 so I guess not 16:49:17 ./bitary.h:62:13: warning: disabled expansion of recursive macro [-Wdisabled-macro-expansion] 16:49:25 PleasingFungus: oh, distinct from, not inclusive of. my wrong answer :( 16:49:44 my question was ambiguous and poorly phrased 16:49:58 should have gotten warnings from the question compiler 16:50:21 quiver.cc:571:44: warning: implicit conversion changes signedness: 'int' to 'unsigned long' 16:50:26 there are .. a lot of those 16:50:38 -Wsign-conversion seems especially prevalent for signed->unsigned conversions 16:51:13 floatingatoll: Hmm, yes implict conversions sounds like something Crawl would use a lot. 16:51:26 flags &= ~(MAP_DETECTED_ITEM | MAP_MORE_ITEMS); 16:51:28 for instance 16:51:35 is the only reason felids have level drain so that they can get a life back later? 16:51:38 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:03 wheals: no 16:52:04 <|amethyst> I'd hate to have to use size_t everywhere we index into a fixedvector 16:52:18 i think it would be happy with using unsigned on them 16:52:37 <|amethyst> I'd hate to have to used unsigned everywhere we index into a fixedvector 16:52:38 what is the reason they still use old drain, then, instead of something more punishing? 16:52:39 wheals: by which I mean that they would get lives back later regardless 16:52:40 heh. 16:53:00 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 16:53:03 what i can't decide without looking, is whether flags or MAP_DETECTED_ITEM is the signed one. 16:53:03 I don't know the reason, it was added because people at the time thought that having some penalty on top of losing the life was reasonable 16:53:11 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: the unused private member is used if you build for something other than local tiles 16:53:14 because one is a bitvector and the other is an enum.. 16:53:18 |amethyst: ooh, interesting! 16:53:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:25 wheals: Or less, I've heard losing a life causes slippery slope, haven't played them in a while. 16:53:31 I think opprtunity cost is enough. 16:53:35 personally I was thinking that a small amount of skill draining would be better, but would also need to adjust extra life scheduling at the same time I think 16:53:57 yeah, that's what i was trying to do now 16:54:22 109,493 warnings from -Weverything. 16:54:31 if you are looking at extra life scheduling, it would be nice if it didn't always happen on levelup 16:54:56 to avoid the issue with it being much better to die at 99% towards the next XL than at 1% 16:55:02 fr one-up mushrooms 16:55:04 or it could rand_round maybe 16:55:29 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:55:29 debo: don't start up the "potion effects on food" argument again!!! 16:55:42 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: the thing in bitary.h is supposed to be interpreted the way it is being interpreted 16:55:43 that's silly, you can't drink food! 16:55:47 * floatingatoll nods 16:55:51 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: the macro is a wrapper for a function of the same name 16:55:56 Yes I should send out that c-r-d email out soon. 16:56:00 debo: what about beer? 16:56:07 not food! 16:56:08 reaverb: I am writing one just now :O 16:56:13 there's ways to hint things as 'stop warning about this' but that seems less important 16:56:21 |amethyst: When I googled the error I got some discussion about it being buggy. 16:56:26 # of warnings per -W option, https://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159450 16:56:35 floatingatoll: What are you using to get these warnings? 16:56:35 * floatingatoll looks at 1 -Wduplicate-enum 16:56:38 reaverb: clang 16:56:46 or, OS X 10.9 devtools, depending on how you call it. 16:58:26 huh 16:58:33 what's the 1 -Wdocumentation-unknown-command 16:58:41 floatingatoll: Is it the one which comes with Xocde? 16:58:44 yes 16:58:44 I wonder if that one's mine 16:58:53 floatingatoll: that warning is buggy, ignore it. 16:58:57 The macro expansion one. 16:59:00 noted 16:59:07 do you see any warnings in the counts list there that seem important? 16:59:09 hiscores.cc:2858:4: warning: unknown command tag name [-Wdocumentation-unknown-command] * @callergraph 16:59:17 huh 16:59:30 !source hiscores.cc:2858 16:59:31 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/hiscores.cc;hb=HEAD#l2858 16:59:42 not mine 16:59:42 * floatingatoll no clue 17:00:08 <|amethyst> Yeah, if -Wdocumentation-unknown-command doesn't understand doxygen then you shouldn't use it 17:00:25 i can't make any sense of the -Wduplicate-enum given the source code. https://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159495 17:00:35 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:00:41 |amethyst: I googled around 17:00:51 it looks like that isn't a valid doxygen annotation? maybe? 17:01:01 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/manual/commands.html#cmdcallergraph 17:01:10 yes 17:01:12 I found that it's a command 17:01:23 oh I see 17:01:29 <|amethyst> \ and @ mean the same thing 17:01:34 I did not know that 17:01:59 <|amethyst> the NUM_OLD_JOBS thing is... 17:02:00 <|amethyst> bad 17:02:04 floatingatoll, enums add 1 to the previously assigned value for a non-initialized label 17:02:07 <|amethyst> fortunately it's only used in one place 17:02:10 so -7 + 1 = -6 17:02:14 geekosaur: i.. heh 17:02:15 and the warning is correct 17:02:18 wow, okay 17:02:21 |amethyst: Don't we normally add one to NUM_ 17:02:22 ? 17:02:33 <|amethyst> geekosaur: and the code that uses it does a -2 to correct for it 17:02:45 hahaha 17:02:47 |amethyst: ! 17:02:53 ...weird 17:02:54 <|amethyst> reaverb: yes, but how is -6 the right value? 17:03:03 -!- zeia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:03:10 because the previous value is -7, so it increments positively 17:03:12 <|amethyst> reaverb: I could see making it 7, -7, or maybe even -8 17:03:20 |amethyst: Hmm, i'll have to look at that case. 17:03:21 -7 +1 and then it reuses -6 17:03:24 ? 17:03:26 * floatingatoll trying to follow 17:03:27 I would wonder if somethiong relies on those not being initialized 17:03:34 some script or etc. 17:03:46 <|amethyst> geekosaur: on what not being initialized? 17:03:52 This looks like off by one errors stacked on off by one errors stacked by hacks. 17:03:54 the end markers for enums 17:04:04 that is, NUM_foo 17:04:32 <|amethyst> geekosaur: you mean, if something relies on NUM_WEAPONS being different from the actual number of weapons? 17:04:36 <|amethyst> err 17:04:45 <|amethyst> I mean, being different from any actual WPN_ enumerator 17:05:03 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:05:05 no, I mean some script that runs over the source won't actually recognize that it's not a "real" enum value if it's initialized 17:05:22 and instead of using it as a guard value, acts as if it's a real one 17:05:30 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I doubt anything uses that one in particular 17:05:39 <|amethyst> and if something worked that way in general it would be dumb 17:05:51 it would be, yes, but this *is* crawl source... 17:05:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:55 :p 17:06:07 several of these -Wshift-sign-overflow in itemprop.cc and nowhere else: https://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159503 17:06:13 <|amethyst> I'd think it would look for NUM_ 17:06:17 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:06:18 all: you.seen_armour[item.sub_type] |= 1 << SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND; 17:06:58 context seems key, though, because the following -Wsign-conversion warning seems to indicate that it's.. intentional? maybe? 17:07:02 https://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159515 17:08:05 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:19 technically 1 should be 1UL 17:08:34 oh, it's complaining about the bare '1' being default signed? 17:08:37 * floatingatoll TIL 17:08:41 practically there may be compatibility / portability issues there, so probably relying on that 17:09:08 <|amethyst> geekosaur: UL because there are still 16-bit systems out there? 17:09:10 -!- nooodl_ is now known as nooodl 17:09:14 <|amethyst> geekosaur: as opposed to U 17:09:22 well, because the SP_* type is UL, right? 17:09:29 so the 1 *must* be the same type.. 17:09:37 const int SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND = 31; 17:09:50 int! 17:09:57 <|amethyst> the shiftee and the shift don't have to be the same type 17:09:57 well, I was guessing about the L, actually; maybe it fits in 16. (then again if we are relying on the size of (int) with a bitmask, we're already in trouble) 17:10:06 (you are) 17:10:18 but! 17:10:19 main.cc: COMPILE_CHECK((int) SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND < 8*sizeof(you.seen_weapon[0])); 17:10:27 there's a compile-time check to ensure that the default int size is sufficient! 17:10:38 <|amethyst> geekosaur: it doesn't fit in 16 because SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND is 31 17:10:42 yeh 17:10:45 saw that 17:11:10 gammafunk: By the way, did you intentionally remove the Orb of Zot apportation special case in weightless? 17:11:13 '1U'? 17:11:22 so if we're okay with assuming (int) is large enough, then that const int should be const unsigned int and the corresponding initializer should be 1U 17:11:36 gammafunk: Because I think it took a while for that develop. 17:11:37 except the latter is not necessarily backward compatible with older compilers 17:11:49 * floatingatoll files under "works as designed because C" 17:11:51 <|amethyst> geekosaur: which line are you talking about? 17:11:52 reaverb: a) it would have been me, and b) i removed _one_ of them 17:11:56 <|amethyst> geekosaur: what const int? 17:12:01 which was actually just a message one 17:12:02 <|amethyst> oh, SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND 17:12:03 * geekosaur thinks specifically that it might be a problem with MSVC, if we care 17:12:08 wheals: Err, sorry. 17:12:09 [14 22:09] const int SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND = 31; 17:12:18 the 1/3rd chance to just plain flail is still there; the code was a bit confusing 17:12:19 to clarify slightly 17:12:19 itemprop-enum.h:const int SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND = 31; // seen_weapon/armour is a 32-bit bitfield 17:12:21 <|amethyst> geekosaur: is it really a problem to do long << int 17:12:24 the comment has already been here. 17:12:32 <|amethyst> geekosaur: does the thing on the right really need to match the type? 17:12:39 wheals: Ah. 17:12:46 Do rings of sustenance still exist? 17:12:51 dpeg: no 17:12:52 I am not considering the long part any more, just the unsigned part that clang is complaining about 17:13:23 I think you can safely pretend that a numeric literal will have the correct type but pedantically ANSI C99 wants you to specify 17:13:39 but there are still compilers which don't support suffixes like U 17:13:42 is it worthwhile to offer a patch adding 3 __attribute__((__noreturn__))? 17:13:48 seems .. unlikely 17:13:50 <|amethyst> geekosaur: in C++? 17:14:05 oh, right, don't recall how this interacts with C++ at all >.> 17:14:16 ASSERT("Invalid tentacle type!"); 17:14:22 does that even *work*?! 17:14:25 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:29 C++ diverges from ANSI C in a number of respects. but clang's warnings are following ANSI C rules there 17:14:33 C99 17:14:37 <|amethyst> err 17:15:06 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 17:15:12 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I understand why those warnings are there, but I don't see how changing the type of the RHS will help 17:15:33 <|amethyst> geekosaur: are you claiming that 1U << 31 should produce a diagnostic? 17:15:46 maybe it won't, I don't know C++ well enough. maybe just declaring that const unsigned is enough 17:15:46 <|amethyst> geekosaur: (assuming ints are 32 bits or bigger) 17:16:02 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:16:11 <|amethyst> geekosaur: that's what I'm saying, I don't see how declaring that const unsigned helps 17:16:39 because the warning is that it has a signed type and you are setting the sign bit 17:16:52 <|amethyst> geekosaur: which warning are you talking about? 17:16:59 https://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159515 17:17:21 <|amethyst> geekosaur: I don't see how changing the type of SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND changes that at all 17:17:27 <|amethyst> geekosaur: it's the 1 whose type needs to be changed 17:17:30 c-r-d mail on chunkless sent, in a slight hurry... I hope it's okay 17:17:52 oh, right, I am confusing the shift value with the shift result 17:18:03 so it's just the 1 that needs a type 17:18:11 |amethyst: in unrelated, is this correct? http://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159583 17:18:15 either (unsigned)1 or 1U depending on compiler compatibility 17:19:28 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: indeed 17:19:39 woot! 17:19:45 one bug fixed :) 17:20:18 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-834-gd31242b (34) 17:20:27 <|amethyst> and I bet that "silence a warning" can be removed now 17:20:30 heh. 17:20:32 <|amethyst> since die is NORETURN 17:20:40 <|amethyst> but I'll leave it nonetheless 17:20:50 maybe it'll introduce a new warning about unreachable code :) 17:20:58 * floatingatoll plays whack-a-mole with -Weverything 17:21:11 * Grunt warns floatingatoll about everything!!! 17:21:16 noooo 17:21:44 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:21:45 Grunt: When was the decision to remove LO decided on? 17:23:52 -!- LNCP has quit [Quit: <@smeding> trust me, i had a telecommunications class where we wrote our own prayers to satan in the ancient tongues] 17:23:52 |amethyst: these two NORETURN were offered up by the compiler. http://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5159622 17:24:07 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20131216183647]] 17:24:22 Lightli: These are things Grunt decides during his morning rituals. 17:24:40 oh 17:24:46 -!- anon_ has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:10 my recollection is Er*narn acknowledged some time back (couple months) lack of time to fix it and it was best to remove until tension could be made sensible or it could be redesigned around some viable metric? so the only question was when 17:26:13 Always good to project decisions back into the dimly lit past :) But yeah, that sums it up, only that I think nobody believes that tension can do what people expect it to do for LO. 17:26:32 if tension is innately broken, why not remove it 17:26:34 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:43 I think Er*narn believes it can, just that it's a shitload of work and they have no time for it 17:26:45 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:26:47 because it kind of works for what it's used for 17:27:01 that was my read on what they said here 17:27:02 Lightli: tension is not innately broken, it's just not able to provide a fine gauge as needed for LO. It works alright for Xom and DS guardian. 17:27:07 oh 17:27:15 (And Vault Wardens) 17:27:18 yes! 17:27:23 and singing sword 17:27:55 note that these are stochastic uses ... LO needs permanent, tight difficulty assessement -- much harder 17:28:04 yep 17:28:31 and any rewrite of tension to suit LO needs will probably require juggling the existing uses, making such a change even harder 17:28:57 geekosaur: sure thing. 17:28:59 so "still a neat idea but not viable in the forseeable future" 17:29:18 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:29:39 the fact that they had awkward interaction with orcs (the primary reason they were lava ORCS in the first place) didn't help either, imo 17:30:45 well, rip LO 17:30:54 if (min_threat != 1e38) 17:31:04 what does that mean in human? 17:31:05 guess it's time until the next interesting race proposal comes up 17:31:26 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:31:47 Lightli: total meltdown 17:31:52 Lightli: there's plenty out there, although forum people are generally lazy to make them permanent (put on devwiki), with the notable exception of and_into 17:32:02 floatingatoll: xref: double min_threat = 1e38; 17:32:10 Bloax: meltdown? 17:32:13 floatingatoll: you may consider it a magic number in this case... (ugh) 17:32:19 I was going to make a joke about a radioactive reactor race 17:32:21 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12317 17:32:29 gasp 17:32:35 <|amethyst> DBL_MAX 17:32:48 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:19 Lightli: born from the plutonium sword? 17:33:23 heh 17:33:34 hopefully it's an unsigned float! 17:33:40 <|amethyst> Grunt: the C++ standard doesn't even guarantee that 1e38 can be represented :) 17:33:52 <|amethyst> DBL_MAX could be as low as 1e37 17:34:02 fr: plutonium sword wielded by that race stops the rising glow over time 17:34:06 (i.e. control rod!) 17:34:20 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:39 well, there's five instances of 1e38 in the code 17:34:53 |amethyst: 17:34:57 !source misc.cc:1966 17:34:58 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/misc.cc;hb=HEAD#l1966 17:35:01 worley.cc: for (i=0; i spl-tornado.cc: double hiscore = 1e38; 17:35:17 spl-tornado.cc: ASSERT(hiscore != 1e38); 17:35:18 technically more than 5, if you count max_order as more than 1 17:37:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:17 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:37:50 <|amethyst> okay, I think these tweaks are ready to push 17:38:08 <|amethyst> I'm sure I missed one or two, because I had trouble keeping up in here :) 17:38:14 heh, no worries 17:38:16 !send |amethyst tweaks 17:38:17 Sending tweaks to |amethyst. 17:39:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-835-g7754ac9: Remove two unused constants (floatingatoll). 10(60 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7754ac91bc8e 17:39:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-836-ga22e857: Remove an mprf(""). 10(41 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a22e8573f502 17:39:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-837-gb5016f0: Improve a bad NUM_ enumerator. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b5016f093395 17:39:16 03floatingatoll02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.15-a0-838-gda64724: tilepick.cc: change "Invalid tentacle type!" from ASSERT() to die() 10(23 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=da64724bff9c 17:39:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-839-g7bce4e1: Make a type more correct (geekosaur) 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7bce4e130355 17:39:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-840-ga417c40: Mark a couple of functions as NORETURN (floatingatoll) 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a417c40e7274 17:39:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-841-g4212014: Remove some hard-coded 1e38s (floatingatoll, Grunt). 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 8+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=421201469985 17:39:18 i have some other stuff queued 17:39:29 oh wow 17:39:37 -!- gal_bolle has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:39:38 |amethyst: not "Improve a bad eNUM_erator"? 17:39:42 I am so ashamed of you :( 17:39:44 aaarg 17:39:46 heh 17:39:48 -!- anon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:04 holy wow 17:40:18 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:19 -!- indspenc_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:40:31 <|amethyst> Grunt: *annoyed grunt* 17:40:37 <3 17:41:21 |amethyst: Hmm,out of curiousity, how long will nostalgia branch stay online? 17:42:11 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:17 You probably shouldn't be able to start new games at this point 17:42:42 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:01 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:12 Hmm, halftone applies cleanly. 17:43:35 dang, that job enumeration code is... something 17:43:46 reaverb: and? 17:44:24 <|amethyst> how else are people going to play grey elves online? 17:44:33 wait, is there a bug in the elf hair color code, too 17:44:34 |amethyst: by bringing them back into trunk, of course! 17:44:36 * floatingatoll checks the switch statement 17:44:43 (this is a joke) 17:44:48 Grunt: I'm considering reviving it. 17:45:04 Grunt: Is there any collected feedback from the experimental branch? 17:45:10 what exactly is the halftone branch? the name is odd. 17:45:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:14 reaverb: extremely negative. 17:45:20 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: changes to dithmenos 17:45:30 Grunt: Oh, hmm. Didn't notice. 17:45:31 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: bad pun on "dither" 17:45:47 PleasingFugus: Give half XP for seeing monsters if you're with Dith 17:45:49 ahh 17:45:52 |amethyst: each of these ASSERT's is to ensure that the complex logic preceding *actually* set the variable, rather than blindly trusting so (and then triggering an n-p deref if not). https://github.com/floatingatoll/crawl/commit/5017488 17:46:04 -!- eb_mobile has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:08 good name 17:46:25 if (act->drain_exp(agent, "cloud of negative energy")) 17:46:30 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:31 that second parameter is a bool. how does this work? 17:46:58 ... 17:46:58 <|amethyst> pointer gets converted to true :) 17:47:00 !source cloud.cc:1067 17:47:01 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/cloud.cc;hb=HEAD#l1067 17:47:09 ok, so, it's true :) 17:47:10 At the time I wrote that line, drain_exp had more parameters <_< 17:47:12 * floatingatoll cool! 17:47:28 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: um, I don't think those asserts do what you think they do 17:47:35 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: ASSERT(rw); 17:47:46 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: that doesn't assert that rw was set... it asserts that it was set to true 17:47:49 |amethyst: so my intent was simply to check that rw is not undefined as previously, but i'm not sure how that works in these cases. 17:47:52 aaah. 17:48:06 so there has to be a separate mechanism for that. let's see. 17:48:16 <|amethyst> there is not 17:48:19 oh. 17:48:20 can you just... initialize rw earlier? 17:48:28 PleasingFungus: it is, three levels deep in 'some logic' 17:48:46 oh, there's no default value, i bet. 17:48:47 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: if you read the code, it's fine 17:48:52 |amethyst: yeah, i checked every one of them 17:48:55 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: 17:48:55 <|amethyst> if (cmd == NUM_ES) 17:48:56 <|amethyst> FAIL("Unknown command: %s.\n", cmdn); 17:49:04 they're all fine as written today 17:49:27 Grunt: i'm not quite sure how to offer a fix for it, but it sounds like you recognize it anyways. 17:49:35 <|amethyst> if rw is unset, then cmd will be NUM_ES 17:49:39 * floatingatoll nods 17:49:48 i have little faith in logic, so this was my first idea. it is clearly broken. 17:50:18 * floatingatoll discards and looks for more relevant things 17:50:31 floatingatoll: just remove that parameter :) 17:50:36 Grunt: ok! 17:50:51 and replace it with true. 17:50:56 (Originally drain_exp had two required parameters when it was possible to kill things with it.) 17:50:57 since otherwise something else will change. 17:51:08 The true probably isn't necessary. 17:51:15 player.cc:bool player::drain_exp(actor *who, bool quiet, int pow) 17:51:30 defaults to false, but is currently set true in this case 17:51:36 I'd rather it not be quiet <_< 17:51:38 (by char[23] to bool implicit) 17:51:53 so, -"" and +true 17:52:07 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: the fact that it's passing true is a bug 17:52:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 17:52:30 yeah, but "I'd rather it not be quiet" implies that it should be true after the bug is fixed, if i read it right? 17:52:45 "bool *quiet* = *false*" 17:52:50 I want "quiet" to not be set!! 17:52:54 ok 17:52:56 <_< 17:54:20 https://github.com/floatingatoll/crawl/commit/117813b 17:54:48 -!- palacebeast has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:55:25 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:56:40 <|amethyst> how do I get a diff out of github's interface? 17:56:45 let's see 17:56:59 <|amethyst> I guess I could just pull from your repo 17:57:30 https://github.com/floatingatoll/crawl/commit/117813b.patch 17:57:33 just append .patch, apparently 17:57:34 that's neat! 17:57:41 * floatingatoll TIL 17:57:42 dang 17:57:43 that's rad 17:57:59 should i pay any attention to the ~40 of "warning: no previous extern declaration for non-static variable" 17:58:12 mm 17:58:15 What's the context? 17:58:22 !source dgn-overview.cc:44 17:58:23 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dgn-overview.cc;hb=HEAD#l44 17:58:24 for instance 17:58:36 03floatingatoll02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.15-a0-842-g381fc8f: cloud.cc: remove misplaced string parameter to act->drain_exp() in CLOUD_NEGATIVE_ENERGY 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=381fc8f5166f 17:58:47 ...those should probably all be static? :) 17:58:55 <|amethyst> Grunt: no, they're used elsewhere 17:59:03 hm 17:59:09 <|amethyst> Grunt: and the other places do have extern decls for them 17:59:16 ... 17:59:31 <|amethyst> Grunt: which don't even look the same because of typedefs 17:59:40 .... 17:59:50 lines 44-52 are all emitting that, fwiw 18:00:15 -!- Red_Bucket has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:36 my first thought was just to glue extern on the front, but it sounds like that's not really a great idea 18:00:47 <|amethyst> no, that does not do what you want 18:01:37 Does mp drain gaze work like antimagic against monsters 18:01:38 That would actually break compilation. 18:01:40 dungeon.cc:6444, godabil.cc:4177, items.cc:2369, main.cc:181,185,1149, message-stream.cc:10-13, messages.cc:614, etc. 18:01:51 Maybe what we want is to have externs for these in the appropriate headers... 18:02:21 -!- eb_mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:30 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:59 there are also the incomprehensible-to-me C++ warnings about virtual methods 18:04:12 warning: 'base_pattern' has no out-of-line virtual method definitions; ... 18:04:21 in pattern.h, which apparently every file includes 18:04:32 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:05:07 warning: 'attack' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor 18:05:18 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:26 etc. 18:05:41 i wish i knew more C++ so i could triage them better :( 18:06:05 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:06:50 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:38 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:03 03dpeg02 07* 0.15-a0-843-g1f7a480: A few more orc names. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 23+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1f7a480e8b8f 18:09:37 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:15 It appears reaver never went through with that monster pain brand tweak 18:10:42 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 18:11:25 dpeg: there's your commit allowance for the month... :) 18:11:30 :) 18:11:46 just realised that Beowulf wasn't in the list, had to add 18:12:37 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:12:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:13:29 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13:43 Red_Bucket: What? No, I did that. 18:13:56 %git :/Red_Bucket 18:13:56 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-468-g4302105: Give monsters Necro skill iff they cast Necro spells (Red_Bucket) 10(8 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=43021054d07e 18:13:57 I can't seem to find the commit 18:14:14 oh, you didn't specifcally mention pain 18:14:16 ooh, default: is a fallthrough in switch statements, isn't it. 18:14:22 Red_Bucket: It doesn't mention Pain brand but that's the only effect of necro mon skill. 18:14:35 Yes, Maybe mentioning that would have been a good idea, but oh well. 18:14:48 While searching for it, I noticed there is a thing with the shadow dummy 18:15:14 floatingatoll: Well, it's a fallthough in the same siutations as other case: statments. 18:15:19 * floatingatoll nods 18:15:33 But shadow dummy is stupid in general so I'll pretend there isn't an issue 18:15:42 Red_Bucket: What's the issue? 18:16:00 No necro skill even if the player has necro skill? 18:16:18 Wait, I actually don't know if it's an issue, does the shadow dummy count as having the player's spell set? 18:16:38 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:16:39 Red_Bucket: Well they can cast your spells. 18:16:57 So presumely? I'm not changing it again either way so it doesn't matter. 18:17:06 should CE_ROTTEN be handled in get_item_description case OBJ_FOOD? 18:17:20 or is that what food_is_rotten() is for, and TIL 18:17:46 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:59 Does monster AI try to use mp drain gaze against other monsters 18:18:01 * gammafunk drops a pile of gold. Grunt is distracted! 18:18:03 * floatingatoll mistakenly looks for food_is_rotten in food.cc 18:18:18 Would anybody oppose giving Centaurs normal diets? Their current diet is far more sucessful at being annoying than being balanced. They could be nerfed to +2 bows or something if it's unbalanced. 18:18:26 floatingatool: Good luck on the food code. 18:18:30 heh 18:18:53 -!- Watball has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:19:22 I don't think their bows aptitude is very connected to their dietary considerations :p 18:19:26 that's BEAM_DRAIN_MAGIC, right? 18:19:35 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:19:40 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: mons_corpse_effect does not return CE_ROTTEN, because no monsterentry should have that 18:19:51 -!- indspenc_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:54 huh. okay. 18:19:58 floatingatoll: orange crystal statues just got a mana drain thingy too 18:20:02 i guess CE_ROTTEN is for food, and CE_ROT is for corpses? 18:20:04 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:12 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:53 mon-cast.cc has support for SPELL_DRAIN_MAGIC, afaict 18:20:59 that's not really a full answer 18:21:04 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: CE_ROTTEN means it's rotten (which depends on the particular item and is only returned by _determine_chunk_effect) 18:21:20 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: CE_ROT is for things like necrophage corpses (rot-inducing) 18:21:23 oh! 18:21:53 * floatingatoll hums "CE will, CE will, ROT you" to himself 18:22:09 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:22:09 <|amethyst> SPELL_DRAIN_MAGIC and BEAM_DRAIN_MAGIC are not used by eyeballs or ghost moths 18:22:18 -!- Ankalagon has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:26 <|amethyst> case MONS_EYE_OF_DRAINING: 18:22:26 <|amethyst> case MONS_GHOST_MOTH: 18:22:26 <|amethyst> if (_eyeball_will_use_ability(mons) 18:22:26 <|amethyst> && mons->see_cell_no_trans(foe->pos()) 18:22:26 <|amethyst> && foe->is_player()) 18:22:29 Then what are those for 18:22:40 <|amethyst> for orange crystal statue 18:22:52 Why do we need a new effect 18:22:58 reaverb: perhaps best to leave Ce alone, or do you want to get rid of all fast/slow hunger mutations? 18:23:09 blerg ABIL_MAKE_OCS 18:23:25 * floatingatoll grumbles about MONS/ABIL_MAKE mismatch in this one case only 18:23:41 -!- Ququman_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:23:54 i bet there's a length limit on these or something, because C77 18:24:16 dpeg: I just think it's causing easily removable harm to the game right now, and It's one less species with a special case to deal with when removing chunk eating hits. 18:24:59 reaverb: I don't mind removing the mutation; I'm less sure about an ad-hoc compensation nerf. 18:25:03 Can players still make OCS in zot def? 18:25:22 I think some of these tweaks will work best when we've actually changed chunks 18:25:36 aha. 18:25:46 mon-spll.h MST_ORANGE_CRYSTAL_STATUE { ..., SPELL_DRAIN_MAGIC, ... } 18:25:53 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:57 twice, probably for random reasons? 18:26:01 and no other monsters. 18:26:12 gammafunk: you wanted to know about a plan... I've laid one out on c-r-d 18:26:12 dpeg: Well the nerf thing is option, I won't put it in if you object. 18:26:17 Why not make all mana drain spells use the antimagic code so they also work on monsters 18:26:31 dpeg: cool, I'll take a look and respond 18:26:37 reaverb: just make a reminder that Ce can take a nerf (after your change even more than now :) 18:27:01 dpeg: Ok, I'll note that in the commit log. 18:27:05 cool 18:27:10 <|amethyst> are you also removing slowmeta from halflings? 18:27:30 Can you just remove halfling and buff kobolds 18:27:39 mons->heal(mp, true); // heh heh {dlb} 18:27:43 Red_Bucket: no, that's something completely different 18:27:44 'heh heh' ? 18:27:54 gammafunk: Is "I think some of these tweaks will work best when we've actually changed chunks" enough of a feeling you would object to the change. 18:27:55 * dpeg makes notes about people who always go off on tangents :) 18:28:09 clearly linley came out of retirement to write more horrible code 18:28:24 |amethyst: That sounds good ot. 18:28:28 s/ot/to/ 18:28:39 reaverb: yeah, I personally just feel that these changes are the minor things that can go into the chunkless branch when we've figured out the biggest issues with no-chunks 18:28:44 Don't you mean "too"? 18:28:58 gammafunk: Well I think these changes are minor things which can go into Trunk now :D 18:29:21 they just create balance issues before we're making the hard change 18:29:56 just my feeling though; I don't think I'm alone, but my opinion might not represenent a majority 18:30:22 gammafunk: I'll bring it up on c-r-d with other "steps forward" on removing chunks/improving food. 18:30:25 floatingatoll: I coded Drain Magic in such a way that it could eventually be used for ghost moths and eyes of draining (the latter would be a bit touchy because they're supposed to heal on magic drain). 18:30:27 slow/fast metab 1 didn't really do anything about balance I think 18:30:29 appreciate it 18:30:29 I just noticed another maybe problematic thing. The klown attack brand can produce pain, which will do nothing if it works how I think it does 18:30:31 Right now it doesn't, though. 18:30:40 I think the underlying question is: can slow/fast hunger be interesting in the new system? (I think so. This might be c-r-d stuff.) 18:30:43 are Ce only fast 1? 18:30:47 yes 18:30:48 gammafunk: Also herb 1 18:30:49 and herb 18:30:53 herb 1, haha 18:30:54 <|amethyst> Grunt: just eyes? 18:30:56 But nochunks makes that less an issue 18:30:57 great mutation name 18:31:07 what level of herb is Basil 18:31:15 all of them 18:31:18 <|amethyst> Grunt: doesn't ghost moth also heal? 18:31:22 ...oh, so they do 18:31:26 And his favourite movie is Herbie. 18:31:29 I didn't realise the two of them used the exact same code! 18:31:33 Basil: but is basil herb enough to fix guardian spirit 18:31:41 Soon 18:31:43 reaverb: well, in that case fast 1 to normal food clock isn't that big a deal, actually 18:31:46 What is this about ghost moth healing 18:31:48 for our herby little f(r)iends 18:31:49 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:31:56 I'd thought they were like fast 2 18:32:09 gammafunk: herbivore does that 18:32:11 gammafunk: Well fast + herb is effectively fast 2 18:32:17 Except much more annoying. 18:32:29 "you need greens!" 18:32:35 I think herb 3 on Sp is crucial because we know exactly how Sp play right now, and I'd like to keep that. 18:32:40 yeah, but the change would be one level of change, effectively? 18:32:44 of course 18:33:07 dpeg: I think even Sp can be improved upon. 18:33:16 for the purposes of food mini-game. 18:33:29 Well you can argue Mu is already and improvement. 18:33:30 Only honeycombs? 18:33:35 reaverb: I think so too, but I'd like to keep Sp as the working permafood yardstick for the first round of chunkless. 18:34:02 Basil: Only autopick up food, never have to think about it outside that unless you're purposely trying to go up against the clock. 18:34:13 Mu may be an improvement on the interface side of it, but certainly not from a gameplay & design point of view. 18:34:14 food clock 18:34:22 dpeg: Yes. 18:34:54 hrm, what does *only* autopickup food mean? 18:35:19 Why doesn't limiting mon respawn provide the same effect as food clock 18:35:30 or is that just "only permafood" 18:35:38 reaverb: what I mean is that the current permafood generation for Sp makes them work decently. So I'd keep their restricted diet. Perhaps we can go further, but it's good to know that the system already works in one case (and it's not Mummy). 18:35:46 Grunt: i don't know much about it, but it looked like a normal-type beam when i dug through. didn't realize it was new or anything. 18:35:53 so ++ from my completely inexperienced eyes :) 18:35:59 dpeg: Mu was declared the most fun species by minmay 18:36:06 gammafunk: I am not moved. 18:36:09 haha 18:36:19 dpeg: Hmm. 18:36:20 Mu is pretty amusing 18:36:22 Didn't he also declare Demigod the most fun species? 18:36:31 that's no. 2 18:36:48 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:06 Anyway, sorry if this has already been mentioned but if weightless and nochunks go in, what's the point in not automatically eating food? 18:37:42 reaverb: Yeah, in general I'd caution that we do want to have some reasonable yardticks like how dpeg is suggesting; we have a lot of very good, experienced players (including dpeg) that we can use to bounce ideas off of and get feedback 18:37:51 Basil: this came up already ("goldifying food"). 18:38:00 weightless is obviously a buff to chei speedruns 18:38:02 -!- nooodl has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:38:15 mmm 18:38:17 I'm hoping to drop the interface changes for weightless tonight, if I get my act together 18:38:23 %git :/diet 18:38:24 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-675-g291ab9b: Remove diet mutations from random generation 10(6 days ago, 3 files, 9+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=291ab9b34b0b 18:38:27 get it together gammafunk 18:38:34 I..I....HEIE! 18:39:18 !send gammafunk act 18:39:18 Sending act to gammafunk. 18:39:35 dpeg: oh, and I suppose you saw N78291's flurry of Nem code? 18:39:47 in the new_nemelex branch 18:39:56 It might spell the end for our deicide proposal 18:40:24 %git new_nemelex 18:40:24 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-756-g35a195b: Make Nemelex death message use less sacrifice code 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 18+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=35a195b144b0 18:40:29 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:34 gammafunk: who knows? I hope that new Nemelex is played for a while... in a year, we can reassess. 18:40:48 Yes, new_nemelex is great. I still need to remove the Genie card. 18:41:04 dpeg: sure, that's fine; it's great that some positive change occured. Perhaps after it's stabilized you can take a look and give assessment 18:41:12 He has more commmits in the work, I think 18:41:25 I don't think the really deep problems can be addressed with the current system, but on the other hand, it's a working god after all. 18:41:49 gammafunk: is War going to be sliced into more decks? 18:41:50 right, I still think our reasoning on the removal was correct, but the perfect is the enemy of the good, as they say 18:41:54 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:01 Basil: I'm thinking about it. 18:42:09 -!- indspenceable has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:13 Basil: (I'm sort of the dev sheapord for new_nemelex) 18:42:14 Basil: I'm not really sure, and yeah reaverb and N7 are doing the work currently 18:42:22 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:26 sheeporb 18:42:31 N78291 is the main contributer, I'm just the dev team supporter. 18:42:37 The sheeporb shrieks in terror! 18:43:23 -!- MiraclePrism has joined ##crawl-dev 18:43:47 I'm a little sad that I didn't get my very own MS Paint insult images from SA/4-chan, but there's still time for that 18:43:59 gammafunk: you have to work harder!!! 18:44:21 Has anyone ever made anti-dpeg art? Perahaps its harder to achieve than I thought 18:44:30 gammafunk: Paint insult? 18:44:38 reaverb: yes, it's a thing 18:44:58 I hope somebody saved them 18:45:01 I recall anti-MarvinPA fanfic on 4chan at some point 18:45:33 a disgrace to have players like that... we should switch to a different language :) 18:45:59 -!- Stendarr has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:46:06 dpeg: Good opprtunity to add Doxygen comments everywhere! 18:46:13 dpeg: I recommend Lisp 18:46:34 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:02 dpeg: Hmm, did you mean programming or natural. 18:47:05 Why can formicids see trapdoor spiders through walls but not when in LoS? 18:47:27 If nemelex never existed and new nemelex was proposed now, would it be added? 18:48:01 If dcss never existed and was proposed now, would it ever be coded? 18:48:02 I meant natural language, so that those imbeciles would be unable to play the game, of course. I suggest Latin, so the pope can enjoy a round of Crawl. 18:48:32 I nominate German, so I can finish learning it 18:48:33 Red_Bucket: probably not (the long list of effects), but the question is moot -- No would be the answer to many such questions. 18:49:45 two weird things: rotten tarantella chunks are not described as rotting 18:49:53 and I can see trapdoor spiders through walls 18:49:58 but they disappear when in LoS 18:50:00 is this intended? 18:50:04 TZer0 because antanne are weird. 18:50:28 !learn add basil Add more AC description to manual 18:50:28 Basil[7/7]: Add more AC description to manual 18:50:42 Basil: good point! 18:50:48 They don't work properly with things you can't see in your LOS. It's a bug that would take a lot of work to fix. 18:51:05 dpeg: now's a good time to ask you about N718291's corrosion patch 18:51:13 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:51:14 dpeg: also the tuturial maybe 18:51:28 But the only experience I've had with that was a ~4-year old bug 18:51:33 gammafunk: It doesn't apply cleanly, by the way. 18:51:41 ok, well that's fixable 18:51:43 dpeg: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8507 18:51:45 Because it's got a duration. 18:52:05 <|amethyst> err 18:52:12 <|amethyst> rotting food seems to be completely broken now 18:52:18 -!- anon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:21 |amethyst: Ha 18:52:22 <|amethyst> I mean, describing it as rotting 18:52:32 dpeg: But the idea is you get an AC -5, slaying -3 mallus that's stackable, and it's just applied to the player, not to any weapon, upon corrosion 18:53:07 dpeg: it's a duration instead of a permanent thing, and monsters get like half AC I think? Not sure if they also get a damage mallus 18:53:25 gammafunk: Oh, and I know it's fixiable. I would do it myself if I knew I was allowed to push it. 18:53:41 re Corrosion: duration is bad, experience seems a lot better. Did you ask elliptic yet? 18:53:42 reaverb: yeah, figured you'd do that; just wanted to get more opinions 18:53:42 hmm 18:53:58 gammafunk: would that malus apply to creatures without AC 18:54:02 <|amethyst> reaverb: why??? 18:54:06 <|amethyst> reaverb: the rotting thing 18:54:12 <|amethyst> - if (food_is_rotten(*this) && it_plus != MONS_PLAGUE_SHAMBLER) 18:54:12 Basil: hrm, let me look at the current patch 18:54:15 <|amethyst> - buff << "rotting "; 18:54:18 <|amethyst> - 18:54:22 Basil: it only applies to creatures wearing armour i believe 18:54:23 <|amethyst> reaverb: did you just remove every line that mentioned plague shamblers? 18:54:35 |amethyst: wheals was the one who removed them. 18:54:41 <|amethyst> oh 18:54:49 %git :/hambler 18:54:50 07wheals02 * 0.15-a0-822-gedb40d3: Remove plague shamblers. 10(8 hours ago, 43 files, 34+ 156-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=edb40d360931 18:55:04 Could have been a cute yred gift 18:55:05 mmm 18:55:10 Basil: seems to just make monster ac half of what it is, so no 18:55:16 mmmmm 18:55:25 Oklobs are going to tear through OOF in a single volley now 18:55:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:55:29 Perhaps it should also have a damage effect for monsters 18:55:50 gammafunk: I haven't looked at the patch in any detail but I'm sure it is worth trying out, n7's patches always are 18:56:22 elliptic: any thoughts about the monster affect? 18:56:28 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 11silver | XP: 9248 | Sp: b.fire (3d40), malmutate, fireball (3d43) | Sz: little | Int: normal. 18:56:28 %??orb_of_fire 18:56:36 oh yeah they do have a lot of AC 18:57:20 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:29 ah I see, for monsters there's just one application possible 18:57:31 |amethyst: Looks like that's the only mistake in the patch. Are you crafting a custome fix or planning to just revert? 18:57:34 so it never goes below ac/2 18:57:48 Acid clouds will now literally melt everything 18:57:56 <|amethyst> reaverb: partial revert 18:57:59 acid clouds? 18:58:07 |amethyst: Ok. 18:58:11 gammafunk: clouds that do acid damage 18:58:21 right, but isn't that only from the rod of clouds 18:58:23 gammafunk: I imagine halving AC is enough for now, that is already a lot more than acid attacks currently do to monsters 18:58:40 ok, well I think that's sufficient support 18:58:53 can always add in a damage reduction thing for monsters at some point later 18:58:56 reaverb: looks like you're all-clear if you want to fix up the patch :) 18:59:22 gammafunk: The acid patch? Somebody will just add another duration. I'll wait until it's ready to be pushed. 18:59:43 oh, is there some weird problem with too many durations? 19:00:04 gammafunk: No, it's just that it's inedvitable somebody will want to add one. 19:00:10 ? 19:00:13 I don't understand 19:00:23 this is adding a duration, yes, but what's the problem with that? 19:00:24 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 19:00:28 gammafunk: Would I be allowed to push the acid patch right now? 19:00:28 the idea is to push it :P 19:00:40 elliptic: OH! Yes I'll fix it up. 19:01:11 reaverb is now officially on acid 19:01:32 <|amethyst> oh, haha 19:01:34 That just seemed like something at least a c-r-d email would go out for, glad the pace at the pace of progress. 19:01:47 <|amethyst> that special case for rotting plague shambler corpses 19:01:54 <|amethyst> shouldn't have been there 19:01:57 Wait, does this mean there is yet another thing that is good against gargoyles? 19:02:04 <|amethyst> it's from back when they were called "rotting corpses" 19:02:34 good against gargoyles in what way? players? monsters? 19:02:55 From the monster's perspective, it's good against any player that's not rCor 19:03:18 <|amethyst> s/corpses/hulks/ 19:04:06 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:21 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:41 the removal of armor corrosion means it's okay to have monsters with acid cloud attacks now, right? 19:04:43 <|amethyst> dpeg: "Beowulf"? 19:04:56 |amethyst: I like my sagas! 19:05:09 reaverb: yeah, when the planets align and there's no major disagreement, especially amongst our more seasoned developers, CRD email is not as necessary. 19:05:23 IMO, add acid crabs 19:05:35 gammafunk: Hmm. 19:05:42 yeah acid cloud attacks could become I thing, I suppose 19:05:45 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: not drakes? 19:05:49 corrosion changes also aren't that major really, think of it as changing a handful of monsters 19:05:51 wait, removing corrosion? 19:05:57 This sounds like the best thing 19:06:12 (what would happen if a jelly splashes you with acid then outside of damage) 19:06:23 <|amethyst> Lightli: please stop it 19:06:29 ok 19:06:33 * Lightli quiets down 19:06:33 <|amethyst> Lightli: it's like you haven't read a thing 19:06:33 elliptic: but will oklob plants be as dreaded as ever? How many oklob vaults do I have to make in compensation? 19:06:44 Do drakes have a range advantage over crabs or something? 19:06:56 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: they have a flavour advantage :) 19:06:58 hrm, it probably is more like a dozen enemies, but yeah I suppose it doesn't affect all that many enemies after all 19:07:06 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: (yeah, acid crab would be fine) 19:07:13 lemuel_acid_trip would need a buff. Possibly add acid crabs to it 19:07:23 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: Though drakes do have a breath timer so it's not purely flavour 19:07:27 we have acid clouds now, clearly more things need to use them. 19:07:29 clearly. 19:07:36 oh 19:07:37 fr storm crabs 19:07:40 now I feel dumb 19:07:54 I would suggest chaos crabs, but somebody already implemented that piece of genius 19:08:02 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 19:08:11 also yeah the fact that the malus stacks means that in terms of killing you oklob plants are now even better 19:08:21 wow, I can only come up with 8 acid-dealing enemies after all 19:08:22 !send Red_Bucket apocalypse crabs!!!! 19:08:22 Sending apocalypse crabs!!!! to Red_Bucket. 19:08:27 death ooze (06J) | Spd: 12 | HD: 11 | HP: 39-61 | AC/EV: 2/4 | Dam: 3204(rot), 32 | 07undead, 04eats items, evil, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(117), 02cold, 09poison+++, 08acid+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1093 | Sz: little | Int: plant. 19:08:27 %??death ooze 19:08:27 chaos crabs?! 19:08:31 make that 7 19:08:32 <|amethyst> what about the covered-slot mechanic? 19:08:44 floatingatoll: do you know about fire crabs 19:08:50 i do not. 19:08:53 hrm, that could stay I guess 19:08:56 * floatingatoll looks in the .hh 19:08:57 the covered-slot mechanic 19:09:03 it's just a resistance chance after all 19:09:05 Do you have local crawl? 19:09:08 yes 19:09:11 Go start it up and spawn a fire crab 19:09:27 you know, i see the names on this list in the sprint arena 19:09:28 and i fear 19:09:33 "moth of wrath / w:20 ettin", "orb spider", "fire crab", 19:09:44 the covered-slot mechanic only really makes sense in context of corrosion damage. otherwise it's not really relevant beyond the early game 19:09:54 since there's no incentive to take stuff off while fighting acid monsters 19:10:08 yeah, that is true 19:10:15 <|amethyst> gammafunk: resistance chance? 19:10:17 I mean you can keep it around, it just won't do much 19:10:20 When somebody says crab, they are referring to something that creates clouds like a fire crab 19:10:30 That is to say, a lot of them 19:10:37 |amethyst: isn't the covered-slot mechanic just granting a reduce chance of corrosion applying? 19:10:52 ah 19:10:53 <|amethyst> gammafunk: no, you get extra damage for each uncovered slot 19:10:58 aha! 19:11:00 fire dragon, hell hound, xtahua (?), fire crab 19:11:01 <|amethyst> it makes acid more dangerous to, say, Op than to humans 19:11:05 oklob plant (09P) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 39-73 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 03poison, 08acid+++, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 560 | Sp: s.acid (3d7+7d5) | Sz: small | Int: plant. 19:11:05 %??oklob plant 19:11:13 right, that is true as well 19:11:26 the original design intent was to discourage people from stripping off aux-slot items before entering slime or similar nonsense, I think 19:11:27 gammafunk: if I remember correctly, that 7d5 loses a die per covered slot 19:11:27 But then again I'm not sure Op really need to be "-rAcid" 19:11:37 op are incidental fallout 19:11:53 (poor octopodes) 19:11:54 jelly (04J) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-21 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 308(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 42 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 19:11:54 %??jelly 19:12:06 Since Op are clearly not OP, I'd be fine with that mechanic going away 19:12:15 ghostly flame is a big cloud like the fire crab cloud 19:12:25 ...ghost crabs? 19:12:27 gammafunk: this is such a strange way of reasoning! 19:12:41 03|amethyst02 07* 0.15-a0-844-g0deed4f: Label rotting chunks as rotting again. 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0deed4fff16c 19:12:43 * floatingatoll looks 19:12:51 great 19:12:53 dpeg: The reasoning is just "obscure complexity" in my view; I'm just saying that it doesn't break Op to remove it 19:12:54 heh, had wondered about that 19:12:56 About the chaos crabs, they're called apocolypse crabs and they shoot primordial chaos everywhere 19:13:02 now I'm starting to think of ghostly fireball as a player spell for some reason 19:13:11 gammafunk: this has very little to do with Op, in my opinion. 19:13:12 I think PleasingFungus' point is correct that it's an earl-game only thing 19:13:13 apocalypse crabs shoot is_big_cloud clouds 19:13:22 <|amethyst> dpeg: lightly armoured races in general 19:13:30 <|amethyst> dpeg: should acid do more damage to them than to other races? 19:13:33 that sounds miserable 19:13:37 felids get a special lesser acid resist to compensate for that, right? 19:13:38 dpeg: right, I don't mean to imply that it hinges on Op, but merely that we do have to consider the affects of the change 19:13:56 there is no rChaos 19:14:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: yes, felids get compensation from MUT_SHAGGY_FUR 19:14:00 Add more types of crab, then give nemelex a crabs card 19:14:12 gammafunk: yes, I know. You just phrased it like "hm, would be a buff to Op, who can take it, let's do it" :) 19:14:27 dpeg: he gave other reasons earlier :) 19:14:31 acid crab! 19:14:33 |amethyst: Cloaks have a 50% chance to cover a slot, so only Op is especially affected 19:14:37 and Fe 19:14:41 High power crabs card: miasma crabs. Everything dies for literally miles around. 19:14:53 dpeg: It's just my desire to not break balance by changing things and not considerign the ramifications, but yeah I should have worded that better 19:14:55 crab family: fire, acid, storm, ghost, apocalypse. new bcrawl feature 19:15:01 -!- and has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:15:09 then again, that might be a strange mechanic? dunno 19:15:13 whoever wrote '// Intentional fallthrough' all over mon-abil.cc, thank you for that 19:15:24 dpeg: I should ask, what do you think about the covered-slot mechanic? 19:15:34 hmm 19:15:40 i.e. reduced acid damage based on how many armour slots you have 19:15:41 !send floatingatoll instant death fallthrough 19:15:41 Sending instant death fallthrough to floatingatoll. 19:15:42 void monster::check_awaken(int) 19:15:43 { 19:15:45 // XXX 19:15:47 } 19:15:49 This is promising 19:15:54 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:55 haha 19:15:57 floatingatoll: were you there the other day when we were talking about The Best Nethack Bug 19:16:00 Basil: haha 19:16:01 PleasingFungus: no 19:16:03 best // XXX comment ever 19:16:09 that's amazing 19:16:16 gammafunk: seems like your sort of comment 19:16:18 i wonder why i missed it in the -Weverything 19:16:25 Basil: !!! 19:16:28 floatingatoll: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Yeenoghu#History 19:16:33 -!- surprisetrex has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:48 why, exactly, do crabs have big clouds? 19:17:00 gammafunk: I don't care much about it. I am trying to think whether the corrosion patch will make jellies and oklobs (the two most relevant early sources of acid) more or less threatening. 19:17:01 to make them distinctive and annoying, probably 19:17:01 i guess their shells permit extra pressurization before attacking 19:17:22 actually, all crabs were cursed by a powerful wizard many years ago. that's also why they're so hostile. 19:17:31 PleasingFungus: this code looks so familiar 19:17:37 fr crab crads 19:17:38 dpeg: yes, that's good to consider; I had mostly been thinking in terms of fights in slime, where it would be pretty relevant to have stacked ac/slaying mallus 19:17:40 *crab crabs 19:17:57 In fact, crab clouds are their revenge for centuries of lobster consumption by humans. 19:18:10 !send runescape crabs 19:18:10 Sending crabs to runescape. 19:18:14 gammafunk: I don't know the answer, though! :) 19:18:15 For oklobs, the mallus is not that great, unfortunately 19:18:34 gammafunk: there is still sizable damage? 19:18:42 yeah, oklobs will still kill you 19:18:46 crabs have no skeleton? 19:18:47 for jellies, they're normal speed now, and they often join in fights so that the mallus can have an effect 19:18:49 what about their shells? 19:19:03 <|amethyst> floatingatoll: not made out of bone 19:19:05 floatingatoll: crawl doesn't count exoskeletons as skeletons. it used to, iirc 19:19:05 ooh. 19:19:06 dpeg: yeah, it doesn't change acid damage at all 19:19:17 <|amethyst> We don't count sharks as having skeletons either 19:19:26 fr: shark's teeth 19:19:26 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:19:26 well, they just have cartilage, right? 19:19:31 hm, it would make sense to have the AC reduction until you have killed the source of that particular sense (gameplay sense, not flavour sense, that is) 19:19:42 Put an executioner in every oklob vault to take advantage of the AC reduction from oklobs 19:19:44 hrm, yes 19:19:52 PleasingFungus: yes! 19:19:58 Red_Bucket: or a hydra. or the lernaean hydra 19:20:02 oklob executioner 19:20:09 PleasingFungus: I like you're thinking 19:20:13 :) 19:20:13 PleasingFungus: they have teeth. what now? 19:20:15 Vehumet's final giftset seems a bit strange. 19:20:26 gammafunk: irrelevant until "teeth shards" is added in 0.16 19:20:42 "animate teeth" 19:20:43 What with him giving shatter/lcs/chain lightning to a character with a bunch of conjurations and 0 air/earth. 19:20:47 "toothstorm" 19:20:54 PleasingFungus: tooth golem will be ready for me to push soon, so get ready 19:20:55 <|amethyst> Bloax: do you already have Annihilations? 19:21:04 |amethyst: No. 19:21:06 Bloax: 2/3rds of those are conj! 19:21:10 gammafunk: !!!! 19:21:12 ok I gotta go 19:21:19 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140509030227]] 19:21:21 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:21:24 <|amethyst> Bloax: anyway, it doesn't heavily weight towards the skills you have 19:21:49 <|amethyst> it does weight against skills you have antitrained 19:22:44 Well that's nice and all with 18 conjurations/fire to get a completely irrelevant spell and two spells in which you have 0 skill for their secondary school. 19:22:56 especially highlevel two-school spells 19:23:09 <|amethyst> Bloax: so it should offer you Fire Storm and that's it? 19:23:29 Bloax: I should mention my DeVM managed to get LCS castable at 10% fail rate with 0 earth magic skill 19:23:30 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:35 <|amethyst> Vehumet isn't supposed to be a way to get certain spells guaranteed 19:24:28 <|amethyst> that's why Vehumet was changed in the first place 19:24:54 isn't the whole point of Sif being "you get every spell eventually"? 19:25:31 except how much fun is sif 19:25:47 -!- debo has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:25:53 <|amethyst> how often does someone actually get every spell from Sif? 19:26:08 <|amethyst> I mean, you can get every spell eventually by scumming Pan/Abyss for books 19:26:20 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleeep] 19:26:23 I learned exactly one spell from sif the last time I used her 19:26:25 <|amethyst> probably takes longer than doing the same scumming with Sif though 19:26:31 but that spell was deflect missiles 19:26:47 |amethyst: ziggurat scumming would probably speed it up 19:26:52 apocalypse crabs only spawn in the abyss? 19:26:56 What if sif lifted the counter training penalties 19:26:57 since there's tons of experience for tons of sif gifts there 19:27:00 so the abyss is *intended* to be a despairing pit of despair, right 19:27:07 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: those are probably going away anyway 19:27:07 yes 19:27:08 and ziggurats also have books 19:27:19 Do zigs have apocolypse crabs? 19:27:22 (if anything they should crosstrain and not antitrain) 19:27:48 On the bright side, spawning only in the abyss means you can't get banished by primordial chaos 19:27:53 i .. saw something about it 19:27:53 but i'm not sure 19:28:16 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:16 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 19:28:16 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:31 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:28:45 the idea of fire and ice magic crosstraining sounds kind of overpowered 19:28:58 <|amethyst> golubria wizlab also has apocalypse crabs 19:28:58 one thing I've noticed is how much less common fire resistance is than ice resistance 19:29:37 is there a time-delay message-sending mechanism in the bot !commands 19:29:48 for pleasingfungus 19:30:01 !help !tell 19:30:02 !tell: I don't grok. Syntax is !tell PERSON MESSAGE. 19:30:26 !tell PleasingFungus ghost crabs! https://atoll.pastebin.mozilla.org/5160425 19:30:27 floatingatoll: OK, I'll let pleasingfungus know. 19:30:30 * floatingatoll smiles 19:30:42 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:05 because clearly the world is missing a crab that throws big clouds of ghostly flame. 19:31:46 kinda like reavers? 19:31:46 johnstein: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:31:47 i had to guess *a lot* on the monster stats because these arbitrary integers clearly require experience i lack 19:33:05 Why don't we just give killer klowns chaos brand? 19:33:28 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:33:41 because then you can't make them horribly dangerous without also making CK starter weapon potentially not-shitty 19:33:47 <|amethyst> significantly different list of effects 19:34:23 Lightli: You'll be spending a bunch of experience and spell slots to use two schools of opposite elements that do more or less the same thing. 19:34:34 you have a point 19:34:55 and spell power isn't cheap 19:34:55 Are the final veh gifts special cased in any way aside from them being three high-level spells? 19:34:56 <|amethyst> but they don't do more or less the same thing? 19:35:36 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:55 Refrigeration is mini-shatter, yes. 19:36:09 Otherwise there's freezing clouds of not mixing well with fire. 19:36:24 and bolt of fire but actually ice 19:36:31 <|amethyst> and what's the fire magic equivalent of Simulacrum? 19:36:36 <|amethyst> or metabolic englaciation 19:36:45 nothing! 19:37:32 I'd propose something like making him always gift a final gift spell of your max school, but that's bad in it's own way 19:37:41 worse, really 19:37:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: what if your max school is Hexes? 19:38:02 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:06 |amethyst: max school for which he can gift 19:38:10 max destructive school 19:38:12 <|amethyst> gammafunk: he can gift hexes 19:38:21 yes, but it needs to be high level as well 19:38:29 and if there were such a hex, he'd gift it 19:38:36 there's.. darkness 19:38:43 what level is that? 19:38:57 but in any case, yeah you'd get darkness guaranteed 19:38:58 ??Darkness 19:38:58 darkness[1/1]: Hexes spell that reduces LoS by 25% normally (stacks with nightstalker, but like {wizardry}) and as the description implies, does not decrease your stealth as a penalty. See {cloak of darkness} for the cloak ego. 19:39:00 the only problem with vehumet's final gift is some players. remove them. 19:39:03 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:39:13 discord is a L8 hex 19:39:19 there we go 19:39:26 !learn edit s/Hexes spell/A level 7 Hexes spell/ 19:39:27 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/// 19:39:38 !learn edit Darkness s/Hexes spell/A level 7 Hexes spell/ 19:39:38 darkness[1/1]: A level 7 Hexes spell that reduces LoS by 25% normally (stacks with nightstalker, but like {wizardry}) and as the description implies, does not decrease your stealth as a penalty. See {cloak of darkness} for the cloak ego. 19:40:19 -!- Ultragnash has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:40:37 I too don't really like that you're randomly just out of luck on the final gift for veh, but I'm not sure they're a great solution 19:40:44 For sif, you can just keep getting gifts 19:41:00 s/they're/there is/ 19:41:41 It's kind of interesting that you have to account for not getting exactly what you want, anyhow 19:42:04 Unrand idea: Charmbreaker Antimagic weapon that dispells magic status effect on hit and does more damage to the magically animated(non-living and undead) 19:42:14 Bloax: just adds a few k to your turns, still can get a nice score 19:42:45 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:42:48 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:57 gammafunk: it's interesting until you realize that planning exists 19:43:09 and that at times you just want to roll a certain thing 19:43:32 except the game doesn't want you to because it likes to force you to adapt 19:43:40 yeah, I plan every time, but crawl is good at ruining plans 19:43:51 in a normal game, you can generally always get the spell you need 19:43:59 we even have zigs for free now 19:44:38 Zigs aren't free, they just come at the low, low cost of your life. 19:44:47 I plan to become a divine warrior of TSO with the sword of jihad every game 19:44:54 for a good conjurer, zig:1-10 should be more than doable 19:44:59 so far, I've done it once 19:45:00 even without firestorm 19:45:18 for a good anything, really 19:45:18 PleasingFungus: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:45:45 Have you ever used dragon storm in a zig with jihad 19:45:49 floatingatoll: good intentional_fallthrough 19:46:09 -!- Zermako has quit [] 19:47:32 channel question: how do you get the debug descriptions of monsters, that give in-game xp values etc? 19:47:35 I know I've done this before... 19:47:44 <|amethyst> xD 19:48:14 <|amethyst> oh, I guess that could look like a smiley 19:48:16 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: xD 19:48:24 still rendering as a smiley 19:48:28 <|amethyst> x D 19:48:31 ok 19:48:36 ahh 19:48:38 there it is 19:48:40 thanks! 19:48:42 <|amethyst> and fix your IRC client :) 19:48:45 Spatzist_: Unrandarts are highly unreliable. 19:48:54 clients that automagically deform text to smileys are very strange to me 19:48:54 oh, I'm aware 19:48:56 !vault golzag 19:48:57 Couldn't find golzag in the Crawl source tree 19:48:58 these are good smileys 19:49:03 not like e.g. adium smileys 19:49:09 those are horrifying and must be disabled immediately 19:49:24 <|amethyst> so good that it mangled my answer to your question 19:49:30 can you even speak about ranges of numbers like (0, 8) ? 19:49:48 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:09 the 8) misbehavior is a classic mistake and easily recognizable 19:50:15 the xD smiley is weird and I never see it 19:50:23 so didn't realize what it was rendering (and the mouseover was being reluctant to appear) 19:50:39 I'm not using a broken irc client, but I can't stop my brain from seeing xD as a smiley 19:50:47 haha 19:51:28 I can't stop my brain from thinking of that "spork of doom" bio whenever I see that face 19:51:29 <|amethyst> and I can't stop my brain from seeing <_< as TeX 19:51:42 ...wow 19:52:02 <|amethyst> "that's a weird relational operator" 19:52:08 that's a less than with a less than as a subscript? 19:52:12 <|amethyst> yeah :) 19:52:18 that is hard-core 19:54:19 question 19:54:27 my current build of crawl is horribly out of date 19:54:43 wait nevermind 19:58:01 ok, more normal question 19:58:24 how do I check the heading in git to see if it's up to date before I start the make process? 19:59:03 git status; #might tell you what you need 19:59:10 git log? 19:59:15 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:59:17 check the dates 19:59:19 <|amethyst> git describe tells you your current revision 19:59:22 o 19:59:28 didn't know that 19:59:37 or even just git pull, it won't do anything if you're up to date 19:59:38 <|amethyst> but that doesn't help unless you know what's upstream 19:59:48 thanks 19:59:52 git status should show what your checked-out branch's state is relative to upstream 19:59:53 |amethyst: thanks, i thought i was removing the special case for plague shamblers 20:00:12 which someoneomega forgot to remove after their rename >.> 20:00:21 <|amethyst> wheals: But it turned out you were extending it to every monster :) 20:00:44 When was save compat last broken? 20:00:45 think of it as overzealousness to go chunkless 20:01:06 PleasingFungus: early 0.12, but then it got restored, so i guess early 0.11 really 20:01:15 huh 20:01:36 <|amethyst> %git 6b0ae70205586881fce33adc6ed43e6eb9a4fe16 20:01:36 07kilobyte02 * 0.11-a0-1496-g6b0ae70: Merge branches 'portal_branches' and 'compat_break' 10(2 years, 1 month ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b0ae7020558 20:01:57 <|amethyst> %git ed9563133 20:01:58 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-109-ged95631: Bump save compat, in order to recover from monster_spells. 10(1 year, 9 months ago, 27 files, 12+ 637-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ed9563133047 20:02:20 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:29 PleasingFungus: speaking of ^ 20:02:30 + // Please purge this some day. 20:02:44 good comment 20:02:52 Basil: Did your no potion commit for refridgeration have any problems which needed to be fixed? I'm using it as a base for what needs to ve in a duration. 20:03:06 And already caught an error in the original pathc (hiscores.cc) 20:03:44 oh, i missed one warning in the ray code about float comparisons 20:03:53 x.ray.x == 0 and somesuch 20:04:12 in _bounce_corner, if (r.dir.x == 0 || r.dir.y == 0) 20:04:12 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 20:04:23 should those be 0.0? 20:04:26 (and later on) 20:04:31 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 20:04:35 <|amethyst> that's not what it's complaining about 20:04:45 <|amethyst> it's complaining that rounding could mean they're not exactly zero 20:04:56 reaverb: not that I noticed 20:05:00 I just added a duration 20:05:18 <|amethyst> reaverb: what was the error in hiscores.cc? 20:05:18 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:05:33 And grepped for some other duration and stuck DUR_NO_POTIONS wherever I found that (within reason) 20:06:12 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:06:44 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:46 |amethyst: so, like http://realtimecollisiondetection.net/blog/?p=89 ? 20:08:41 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:08:52 <|amethyst> yes, that general idea 20:08:56 * floatingatoll finds (*(int*)&f1 < *(int*)&f2) and goes insane 20:09:13 -!- Mister_Fox has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:09:30 <|amethyst> in our code? 20:09:34 <|amethyst> that would be bad 20:09:35 no thankfully 20:10:53 so i guess c++ doesn't ship a built-in float comparison that uses epsilon? 20:11:35 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:38 Is the corrupted temple just 20:11:46 !vault corrupted_temple_6 20:11:47 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des;hb=HEAD#l3225 20:11:55 !vault corrupted_temp 20:11:56 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des;hb=HEAD#l3225 20:12:02 (fabs(A - B) < DBL_EPSILON) 20:12:04 looks like yes 20:12:13 For some reason I thought there were multiple corrupted layouts. 20:12:35 |amethyst: to ask a stupid question, is this the sort of thing that could actually go wrong someday, or is clang just being sensitive and it's actually fine b/c 0.0? 20:12:39 |amethyst: The error was it wasn't on the durations list of hiscores.cc Sorry, for some reaosn your ping didn't hit me. 20:12:49 for the corrosion patch. 20:12:59 Yes my sound was off. 20:13:22 Merged slime creatures are worth less XP than individual slime creatures by PleasingFungus 20:14:36 er, thanks bot 20:15:07 * floatingatoll misreads the date badly 20:15:18 Hmm, the bigger bug is that the patch isn't showing the player weapon enchantment change. 20:15:54 reaverb: probably you want to do it like that skald buff does 20:16:11 gammafunk: Song of Slaying? Yes that would make sense. 20:16:19 that still exists, doesn't it? 20:16:23 PleasingFungus: is there a # of merged slimes that can exceed the XP limit below that? 20:16:29 ??song_of_slaying 20:16:29 song of slaying[1/1]: Skald spell which gives you a slaying bonus for each monster you kill at the cost of noise. 20:16:30 or do they have a merge limit somewhere 20:16:37 merge limit is 5 20:16:40 which is about 1250 xp 20:16:44 xp limit is 15000 20:16:57 cool 20:17:04 reaverb: I guess it's a bit awkward in that the ac and slaying malluses are always at the same time, but the display change for AC at least isn't a status light 20:17:10 the problem is, there's a stepdown at 750 20:17:17 ??slime creature[expe 20:17:18 slime_creature[3/4]: worth (slightly) more experience to kill separately 20:17:31 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:31 gammafunk: The Ac change is displayed on the AC stat. 20:17:48 reaverb: yeah, so then using a status light for the slaying mallus seems ok 20:18:01 Corr(-3) I guess? 20:18:10 gammafunk: Do you know where it is? the commit are weird. 20:18:11 Corr(-N) in general 20:18:42 status.cc: inf->light_text = make_stringf("Slay (%u)", 20:18:45 from a grep 20:18:50 of Slay 20:19:13 -!- N78291 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:33 N78291: Heh, nice to see you here, updating your acid patch so it can be pushed to Trunk. 20:19:49 N78291: what do you think about showing the slaying mallus as a status light, like Corr(-3) 20:19:58 more status lights 20:20:02 Did you intend for a corrosion message to show on the "%" screen? It worked on fortittude, but it doesn't work here. 20:20:03 I know 20:20:15 how about something next to the item or ac value 20:20:25 oh, was showing it on the weapon confusing? 20:20:27 the problem is it's not weapon-specific any more 20:20:36 can i corrode my bread ration 20:20:38 N78291: No, it just doesn't work. 20:20:48 At least on my updated version. 20:20:57 weird, it did when I submitted the patch 20:21:08 hrm, so you'd just show it on the wielded weapon, I guess that could work 20:21:18 is the slaying colorized to indicate that it's temporary? 20:21:27 N78921: Maybe git messed it up, I should probably look at that. 20:22:55 gammafunk: no, only ac is in red and there is a Corr status light 20:23:09 I think red is used for a cursed weapon though? 20:23:30 (my inventory is grey) 20:23:45 Yeah, I see. Hrm, and Corr(-3) would also be confusing since how do you communicate that the mallus applies to slaying 20:23:50 Maybe I should push the updated patch to a branch so people can look at it? 20:24:12 not a bad idea 20:24:15 Err, of course, I could just make a paste. 20:24:40 Armour Class 20:24:42 Abbreviated to "AC". When something injures you, your AC reduces the 20:24:44 just in that people can make updates to it; doesn't need a play-test branch before merging in trunk, but it's also fine to just use patches 20:24:44 amount of damage you suffer. 20:25:14 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:30 Maybe "When you're injured by melee attacks, and most ranged attacks and spells" etc. would be better? 20:25:35 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 20:25:59 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:23 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:08 Ok, only problem right now is not showing the slaying malus. I think I will fix that with Song of Slaying esque status light thing, and then push to Trunk. 20:32:29 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 20:32:44 Current, applies to Trunk, patch: http://bpaste.net/show/QezUZvTRjAxFI7SmfWiS/ 20:32:53 Have not fixed the weapon thing. 20:37:14 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:37:53 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:33 reaverb: one thing I notice here is that the ac mallus is applied across the board, but the slaying mallus does not apply if you're wielding an artefact 20:39:58 perhaps it should simply always apply 20:40:13 artefacts are already immune from jelly destruction 20:40:17 -!- tksquared has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:18 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:06 two different things of course, but I'm not sure if we need to reward having an artefact weapon only when we can no longer reward artefact armour of any kind 20:41:28 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:41:38 I'd be curious to hear other thoughts on this 20:42:03 -!- AtomikKrab has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:28 I think I'll remove the artifact bit too, for consistancy with armor. 20:42:42 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 20:43:25 makes sense if you are changing the weapon corrosion display 20:44:04 (note that artefacts are still rewarded somewhat since you are only corroded when you would have been under the old system) 20:44:29 -!- debo has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:45:24 ??corrosion 20:45:24 acid[1/3]: Acidic attacks and defenses come from many Js, yellow draconians, oklob plants and eldritch tentacles. In addition to damaging you, they reduce the +s of weapons (to-dam only) and armour. Items are immune if the relevant plus is +5 or better, or if the item is an artefact. +4 is good enough outside Slime. See also {resist corrosion}. 20:45:44 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:51 hrm, I guess I need to remind myself of exactly how the corrosion check works 20:47:07 Corr (4294967290) 20:47:12 Not exactly what I planned. 20:47:19 Are props unsigned ints? 20:48:15 good corrosion 20:48:41 -3 is a negative number in C++ correct? 20:48:56 reaverb: well in this case you can multiply times -1 :) 20:48:56 Err, can mprf display negative numbers? 20:49:12 gammafunk: It's the number used in the formula. 20:49:19 <|amethyst> reaverb: how are you printing it? 20:49:52 reaverb: Yeah, I mean if it is, just use the appropriate format 20:50:06 and multiply the unsigned int by -1 20:50:06 |amethyst: Status light, using make_stringf( 20:50:14 <|amethyst> reaverb: more specifically? 20:50:15 I guess you'd have to cast it 20:50:24 inf->light_text = make_stringf("Corr (%u)", 20:50:25 + (-3 * you.props["corrosion_amount"].get_int())); 20:50:30 <|amethyst> reaverb: %u means unsigned 20:50:32 The + isn't in the code. 20:50:44 |amethyst: Heh, What's the non unsigned one? 20:50:46 %d? 20:50:47 <|amethyst> reaverb: %d 20:51:11 yeah, that'd do it 20:51:25 reaverb, not a big user of printf 20:51:37 Ok, it's working fine now. 20:51:52 Now just some clean-up and removing the artifiact thing. 20:52:18 hrm, what is the check for corrosion applying, exactly? 20:52:53 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:23 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:54:34 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:15 ok, so one other problem I can see 20:57:19 not sure if it is a problem 20:57:30 gammafunk: I'm just about to push so say it. 20:57:32 please. 20:57:32 in ouch.cc we loop over all equipment, giving each a chance to corrode 20:57:43 yet now corrosion is an across-the-board effect 20:57:55 I don't see a change to that in the patch 20:58:04 which means some hits will apply the mallus multiple levels 20:58:18 gammafunk: Yes, I just got that, I don't think that's a problem. 20:58:40 it's at least something we'll have to look at 20:58:51 not sure what the chance of multiple corrosion actually is 20:58:55 -!- bones__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:55 Ok, I'll not it in the commit when I push. 20:58:58 s/not/note/ 20:59:02 cool 20:59:11 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:28 should I push a trivial change that forces you to rebase again 21:00:08 gammafunk: Does it effect the weapon code or durations? 21:00:13 If so, I don't care. 21:00:22 Err, If it DOES NOT I don't care. 21:01:01 reaverb: was a joke :p 21:01:34 Looking forward to multiple tavern posts about how this is 1) a terrible change 2) an amazing change 3) irrelevant since it fixes none of the problems with corrosion 21:03:39 'worst change since the removal of mountain dwarves (bring back mountain dwarves)' 21:04:27 fr: acid dwarves?? 21:04:40 wheals: when? 21:04:53 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:53 after pizza dwarves 21:05:00 yes, priorities 21:05:04 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 21:05:24 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]] 21:05:26 when is the pizzastorm patch being merged???? 21:05:27 when 21:05:34 I doubt the Tavern is so bad there will be more than two or three people believing this is a bad change. (Which is around as many as IRC gets) 21:05:34 -!- bones___ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:49 [19:05] I doubt the Tavern is so bad 21:05:53 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:05:54 this was your first mistake 21:05:57 1learn add reaverb 21:06:13 PleasingFungus: It's just a form. Like SA. 21:06:19 s/form/forum/ 21:06:27 except something awful bans people for being terrible posters 21:06:37 really 21:07:04 yeah, that's...kind of hard for me to believe given what I've seen from SA 21:08:29 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-845-gcc162c0: Remove AF_DISEASE. 10(40 minutes ago, 6 files, 5+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc162c0e450d 21:08:29 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-846-g3632d78: Make naga monsters grow like tengu (Roarke). 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3632d78e45e7 21:08:30 the thing with something awful is it's old and increasingly irrelevant to everything, but it's still pretty big, for a forum 21:08:30 and so each of its subforums has a pretty different feel 21:08:30 some of them are shit 21:08:30 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:08:30 probably most of them are shit 21:08:31 though I'm still not sure any of them are as bad as tavern 21:08:39 gammafunk: Heh. 21:08:45 Hooray mercs 21:08:51 except it still can't wear GDA 21:09:06 alas 21:09:10 do nagas prefer robes? 21:09:13 yes 21:09:19 is merc more common in new_nemelex? 21:09:22 Same for ogre mages and other large dudes 21:09:25 ??deck_of_war 21:09:25 deck of war[1/1]: Randomly per-card {deck of destruction}, {deck of enchantments}, {deck of battle}, {deck of summoning}, {deck of transport}, {deck of emergency}. 21:09:33 yeah seems it would be 21:09:42 new nem flavor: mercenary army 21:09:49 wheals: They can also wear bardings 21:09:56 gammafunk: it's in wonders 21:10:00 aww 21:10:01 can they wear centaur bardings 21:10:05 oh, ok 21:10:05 probably not 21:10:06 or does it check for that 21:10:12 darn 21:10:12 (so you don't randomly die by getting a merc you can't afford) 21:10:55 Well, with merc it's such a rare effect to get; I'm not saying it needs to be in every game, but given it has deck power and high cost, i'm not sure it's in a good state currently 21:11:02 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:11:49 gammafunk: To be clearn, is this new_nemelex or master? 21:11:55 that is being discussed 21:12:17 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:17 sounds like it would apply to either, since in new_nemelex it's moved to wonders 21:12:37 but it's not that big of a deal 21:14:33 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:15:59 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 21:16:55 Oh, and why do behold.cc and fearmonger.cc exist when mesmerize.cc and fear.cc are shorter names? 21:18:19 mesmerize isn't shorter 21:18:26 would make more sense as a name though 21:19:04 mesmerize is shorter tahn fearmonger 21:19:10 fearmonger is a good name 21:19:12 s/tahn/than/ 21:19:15 by which I mean it's funny 21:19:32 would kind of like it if they were combined into one "hexes.cc" or something, but I'm not sure how to think about filename consolidation in general 21:19:51 fearmonger and beholder are what everything is called in the code, not just those file titles 21:20:03 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:20:21 elliptic: That just pushes the problem backward. Who decided that convention? :D 21:20:34 If I have time I'll probably vim that oddity away. 21:20:35 probably whoever implemented it 21:20:46 probably whoever implemented it liked the names, yes 21:21:12 and I don't think renaming every usage of beholder or fearmonger in the source is sensible 21:21:46 elliptic: What kind of sensible do you think it isn't? 21:22:04 -!- aegolden has quit [Quit: aegolden] 21:22:05 Oh, the acid patch is pushed, by the way. 21:22:10 the "good idea" type of sensible 21:22:32 what would you even rename them to, anyway 21:23:11 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:23:43 "fear" and "mesmerize" don't make sense as terms for actors and you haven't suggested anything else 21:23:51 -!- klang has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:26:46 03N7829102 {reaverb} 07* 0.15-a0-847-ge312512: Replace corrosion with a temporary effect. 10(4 days ago, 13 files, 59+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e31251231736 21:26:48 Hmm, I guess the name thing a good point, mesmerizer is the first. 21:26:48 fearer 21:26:48 fear_source 21:26:48 the fearer, the fearer 21:26:48 <|amethyst> it would also help if you spelled it correctly :) 21:26:48 this sounds like it would make stuff harder to read/grep 21:26:48 <|amethyst> "mesmerise" that is :) 21:26:48 |amethyst: mezmerizer 21:26:48 JOB_BERZERKER 21:26:48 terrorizer 21:26:48 <|amethyst> MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A ZOT 21:26:48 scary_dude 21:26:48 <|amethyst> BERZERKER 21:26:49 PleasingFungus: terrorist? 21:26:49 nooo 21:29:25 %git master 21:29:25 07N7829102 {reaverb} * 0.15-a0-847-ge312512: Replace corrosion with a temporary effect. 10(4 days ago, 13 files, 59+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e31251231736 21:29:27 mmm 21:29:38 Basil: It was right above you :D 21:29:59 Making sure that I didn't miss that it went to another branch 21:30:06 Basil: Ah 21:30:09 -!- Locke37 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:30:12 Doesn't chei normally mention that? 21:30:15 %git new_nemelex 21:30:15 07reaverb02 * 0.15-a0-756-g35a195b: Make Nemelex death message use less sacrifice code 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 18+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=35a195b144b0 21:30:22 Oh he doesn't hmm 21:30:26 Or she 21:30:27 -!- sgiratch has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:30 chei does when the commit is first announced 21:30:34 <|amethyst> on announcements (green), yes 21:30:42 <|amethyst> not on queries (brown) 21:30:53 |amethyst: Sorry, I don't get the fancy colors in my client. 21:31:16 Oh, I'm kind of confused why that commit says it happend 4 days ago. 21:31:41 that was when the patch was authored 21:31:47 probably 21:31:55 Ah, I know, I stole the header infomration from a new_nemelex commit to give N78291 credit, must have been one made 4 days ago. 21:32:12 PleasingFungus: I knew it was authored further back that that. 21:32:21 hm 21:32:32 and I realized why it said that. 21:32:39 chimera commit 21:33:39 heh, indeed. 21:33:52 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:35:06 -!- Red_Bucket has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:36:23 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:33 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:42 -!- maahes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:46:18 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:48:36 PleasingFungus: Mind if I add a (notcluie) to your patch? 21:48:42 no, please do 21:48:57 That's a, "add it', correct? 21:49:00 yes 21:49:12 I would have myself, but it slipped my mind until right after I uploaded the patch 21:49:24 (hence the comment) 21:49:29 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:35 PleasigngFungus: You made me update for notcluie's bug reporting :D 21:49:40 and reupload 21:49:59 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:51:06 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:09 I am cruel 21:51:54 -!- thedefinite has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:55 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:52:31 03PleasingFungus02 {reaverb} 07* 0.15-a0-848-g2df4b55: Fix slimes being worth less XP when merged (notcluie) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 7+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2df4b55dccf5 21:52:43 thanks for pushing it! 21:52:56 Heh, triple credit. 21:52:56 Reporter, patcher, committer. 21:53:08 PleasingFungus: Any time. 21:53:26 Oh, and the "-pf" thing was cute. 21:53:42 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:58 haha 21:54:02 I thought so 21:54:02 I find signed comments tend to look the most silly when I look at old ones though, maybe people don't update them to respect the sig. 21:54:48 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:59 Grunt: Are you ok with dith allowing the player to shadow-step friendlies? 21:55:05 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:55:41 Hmm, I don't have any commit of my own on Chei's main page. Does anybody know a stilly naming convention in the source code? 21:56:06 lol 21:56:33 Should probably write up that c-r-d email I've been mentioning for the past 4 hours or so. 21:56:56 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:57:06 chei's main page? 21:57:33 some nemelex things: http://bpaste.net/raw/BNcxMrCfJrrNjM6pmbu7/ 21:58:13 wow, brought back degeneration 21:58:15 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:34 -!- Keanan has left ##crawl-dev 21:58:51 N78291: any plans for the orb card? 21:59:10 gammafunk: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=summary 21:59:23 reaverb: oh, that's not chei 21:59:26 gammafunk: The orb card is fine, having something plain at lower levels is Ok. 21:59:31 the bot is just an irc bot 21:59:37 that's the git web interface 21:59:38 gammafunk: Well it's updated that the same time as Chei, isn't it? 21:59:41 hm, degeneration sounds like it could be interesting on a monster that does it en masse 21:59:42 nope 21:59:48 that's why cheipoke exists in fact 21:59:49 legendary orb is cool but not very useful is the problem I think 22:00:17 pretty much 22:00:19 yes, the problem is legendary orb, not low paower orb 22:00:25 Make the secondary orbs have less inertia? 22:00:49 and focus them on the target I guess 22:00:51 reaverb: I hope you get a nemelex win under your belt soon so you can learn all the nem fun 22:01:12 gammafunk: I'd probably score that on new_nemelex. 22:01:18 good idea 22:01:19 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:23 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:31 I already had one which made it to…Orc I think? 22:01:35 Maybe just the Lair. 22:01:42 I'm going for Q next game thought. 22:01:48 even with new nem, there's still a ton to learn (which is part of the god, of course) 22:02:13 Oh, that patch has DUR_TELEPATHY, a silly naming convention! 22:02:35 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:53 it shows up in game actually ("You feel telepathic!") 22:03:06 N78291: Oh, hmm 22:03:59 it can't show up as "tele" on the status light though 22:04:03 for obvious reasons 22:04:08 telep 22:04:16 wheals: Heh 22:04:17 the status light is Emp, just to make things even more unclean 22:04:20 unclear 22:04:25 Same word root, probably. 22:04:37 Emp? What's the relation. 22:04:39 "You feel dowsed!" 22:04:46 empathetic i guess 22:04:47 empathic I guess 22:04:57 and then use Dowse as the status light 22:05:01 or what i said, but correct 22:05:19 Could just it to always use empathic 22:05:24 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:07:45 You chop the goblin into pieces!!! Ouch! That really hurt! You feel sorry... 22:08:00 -!- Redz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:08:08 -!- thedefinite has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:11:20 Is this conditional fine? 22:11:29 bool vis = (looker->is_player() && (friendly() 22:11:29 || you.duration[DUR_TELxEPATHY])) 22:11:29 || (sense_invis && adjacent(pos(), looker->pos())) 22:11:29 || (!blind && (!invisible() || looker->can_see_invisible())); 22:12:07 N78291: By the way, we techincally have a standard of no lines being greater than 80 chars, I just learned this today too since so much of the code base violates it. 22:12:29 Oh, ignore the random x 22:12:46 tbh I've not seen much that violates the 80-char rule 22:14:47 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:24 PleasingFungus: I guess it's a lot more obvious on vim. Anything greater than 80 wraps. 22:16:34 Well, it wraps becasue my terminal is 80 22:17:17 well, I have an 80-character line that shows up in my editor 22:17:26 and all the windows are that wide 22:17:30 PleasingFungus: Hmm, that's a neat option 22:17:36 yeah it's classy 22:17:45 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:21 -!- home has quit [Changing host] 22:19:15 TELxEPATHY? 22:19:18 ah nm 22:19:36 Oh, ignore the random x 22:19:48 Oh, ignore the random missing r 22:19:48 -!- zeia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:56 yeah that's why the "ah nm", sorry 22:20:03 ah nm 22:20:06 ah nm 22:20:10 rip 22:20:15 sorry, it's so compressed. 22:20:20 y 22:21:22 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:36 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:34 y no 22:24:50 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:25:05 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:25:28 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:30 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:49 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:23 hey reaver 22:29:29 PleasingFungus: Yes? 22:29:34 while you're removing weird shit 22:29:49 you should remove the "tear a page out of a spellbook to forget the spell" mechanic 22:30:57 PleasingFungus: We had a discussion on that a while back, some people like it. Might be better to nerf ?amnesia generation until it's relevant. 22:30:57 that mechanic plays quite well if you know it exists :/ 22:31:01 haha 22:31:10 idk. I like the idea of it 22:31:11 Or just remove weird ways for forgetting spells. 22:31:13 but I agree the current status with nobody knowing it exists isn't great 22:31:15 maybe it's just the interface that needs to be fixed 22:31:33 and amnesia generation, I guess 22:31:56 I like how sif gives you penance for it 22:32:08 when there is no reason to ever use that mechanic when worshipping sif 22:32:36 what if you have ** piety, though?! 22:32:43 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 22:32:47 what indeed 22:32:52 sure there is, it saves piety and gets rid of those junk books you get from sif 22:32:57 N78291: Heh, your corrosion patch is conflicting with your new_nemelex patches. 22:33:19 03N7829102 {reaverb} 07[new_nemelex] * 0.15-a0-757-ga3d22f3: Tweak Elixir card. 10(11 hours ago, 2 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3d22f39d8c9 22:33:19 03N7829102 {reaverb} 07[new_nemelex] * 0.15-a0-758-gf6b7cce: Move focus card from battle to oddities. 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6b7cce6a132 22:33:19 03N7829102 {reaverb} 07[new_nemelex] * 0.15-a0-759-g517a747: New card: Degeneration 10(10 hours ago, 3 files, 32+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=517a747a5b9e 22:33:19 03N7829102 {reaverb} 07[new_nemelex] * 0.15-a0-760-g2c5affd: Let dowsing show invisible monsters in LOS. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c5affd2252c 22:33:20 well, it'd be very useful if you were worshipping both veh and sif at the same time, and needed spell slots in the early game to learn veh gifts 22:33:20 how so, it shouldn't be in new_nemelex? 22:33:32 I'd probably have to break save compat somewhere to merge this without special code, so I guess I won't merge until it moves to trunk. 22:33:49 N78291: That's such an awesome change I wanted to get it into new_nemelex if I could. 22:33:55 wheals: nice, I've somehow missed that you've been making commits in weightless 22:34:13 We have some kind of commit email notification system I should use 22:34:18 It's a pretty weighty branch, so it makes sense that more than one person would be working on it. 22:34:27 I'm pretty sure such a system exists? 22:34:29 oh 22:34:34 I thought you said "we should have" <_< 22:34:46 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:56 yeah, and I'm certainly glad wheals has been making commits, if that was unclear 22:34:56 well, you should 22:34:59 it's just, luckily, you do! 22:35:06 such luck 22:35:10 now if Grunt made a commit, I'd be worried 22:35:55 Grunt * 0.15-a0-849-g137f9a2: Remove all of gammafunk's work. (38 seconds ago, 37 files, 0+ 13729-) 22:36:08 heh 22:36:08 that's really scary how real that looks 22:36:10 thumbs up 22:36:15 Grunt: so you won't let me ruin fun by preventing dith shadow step on friendly spires? 22:36:24 That's not especially real; I'd have to get the colours too :b 22:36:31 actually it looks false here since none of the color stuff present :) 22:36:33 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:36:34 That's... an interesting technique. 22:36:55 our very own Spectrina proposed to do FoNe of dith for that 22:37:50 3Grunt * 160.15-a0-849-g137f982: Remove all of gammafunk's work. 10(38 seconds ago, 37 files, 0+ 13729-) 22:37:53 there 22:37:57 nice 22:38:20 gammafunk: well, surely you could prevent that just by not letting people shadow-step to waking monsters, even if they're immobile? 22:38:24 -!- Keanan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:25 hm 22:38:36 PleasingFungus: yeah, the issue isn't technically how to do it 22:38:40 but if 22:38:41 /para nerf? 22:38:58 heh, para your allies? 22:39:13 enemies, friends, whatever 22:39:23 well jump attack works with friendlies, but there are some ramifications there at least 22:39:34 not really, depending on the ally 22:39:44 like the attack part 22:39:55 How can I get mantis to stop spamming me with emails? 22:39:58 shadowstep + spire seems like a weird way to replicate passage of golubria 22:39:59 I'm reasonably okay with it working on allies, actually. 22:40:14 It's more like you're putting down a shadow you can immediately step back to. 22:40:16 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:29 fun... allowed? 22:40:34 An emergency blink-back point. 22:40:35 yeah, it's a bit weird, but hard to really exploit 22:40:55 I guess with para it could be easier 22:41:40 I knew I wouldn't be alowed to remove fun: it was just a *ahem* stab in the dark 22:41:47 *rimshot* 22:41:49 boo 22:41:54 just learned that grepping crawl's source for "ovaries" returns nonzero results. 22:41:59 the more you know. 22:42:03 is it the cheibrodos vault 22:42:16 ??vault_design 22:42:16 I don't have a page labeled vault_design in my learndb. 22:42:16 it's a hall_of_zot temple vault 22:42:22 ??vault 22:42:23 vault[1/7]: A small pre-designed section of the dungeon. Most of the evil ones can be blamed on dpeg or Lemuel or minmay or evilmike or a demonic alliance of some subset of the four. The guards around branch entrances and special branch ends are examples. See also the {Vaults}. See {special room} for the rectangular rooms with orcs, bees, etc. 22:42:25 except, ovaries 22:42:27 ??vault_making 22:42:27 vault making ~ vaultmaking[1/3]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps and docs/develop/levels/ in the source 22:42:29 Hmm, is Aaron Golden a dev or just a community member? 22:42:30 I was thinking a quote 22:42:32 ??vault_making[3 22:42:32 vault making ~ vaultmaking[3/3]: I suggested to gamma earlier that I should remove the equivalent of the vaginal canal. It makes the vault look better as well. 22:42:51 huh 22:43:03 the best part of that vault is that it's full of ugly things 22:43:03 I later merged that vault 22:43:08 that is good of you 22:43:31 when hangedman is away the children will play 22:43:41 -!- ZRN has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:44:24 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:44:52 hm 22:44:59 when are vaults with no WEIGHT placed? 22:45:06 !vault circular_temple_18 22:45:07 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/temple.des;hb=HEAD#l1157 22:45:11 default weight most likely 22:45:30 yeah, that'd be default weight 22:45:38 WEIGHT is implicitly 10 if it isn't specified. 22:45:42 Ah, OK. 22:45:47 ??vaultmaking[2 22:45:47 hangedman[14/15]: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=user:hangedman 22:46:31 what about that insane flowchart he made 22:46:42 ?/flowchart 22:46:42 Matching terms (2): crawl_flowchart, flowchart; entries (3): eronarn[10] | flowchart[1] | wensley[6] 22:46:45 ??hangedman[$ 22:46:45 hangedman[15/15]: I evidently don't murder enough people 22:46:51 ??flowchart 22:46:51 crawl flowchart[1/1]: http://i.imgur.com/AQKC3NK.jpg 22:47:11 huh 22:47:13 ??basil[vault 22:47:13 that was his? 22:47:13 I don't have a page labeled basil[vault in my learndb. 22:47:15 that's a classic 22:47:16 hmm 22:49:47 I think this was asked earlier, but I've been doing a merge from master with each new batch of commits I make to a branch 22:49:58 is this problematic in any way? 22:50:15 !seen hangedman 22:50:15 I last saw hangedman at Sat May 10 12:44:57 2014 UTC (4d 15h 5m 18s ago) parting ##crawl-dev, saying 'chanpart'. 22:50:17 !seen tenofswords 22:50:18 I last saw tenofswords at Tue Apr 15 21:10:42 2014 UTC (4w 1d 6h 39m 36s ago) parting ##crawl-dev, saying 'chanpart'. 22:50:21 You'll get a lot of merge commits in the final result, and I remember being whined to at some point about this, but I don't remember the particulars. 22:50:36 Basil: He won't be back until 0.16 is a thing, he said 22:50:38 -!- Orfax has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:44 huh 22:51:05 I suppose this is my chance to make vaults then 22:51:08 yeah, it's technically classier to rebase from master 22:51:25 reaverb: really, did he say why? just not time currently? 22:51:54 gammafunk: I don't quite remember, you can look in the ##crawl-dev logs for the full conversation. 22:52:08 Basil: it was sort of confusing 22:53:19 http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20140506.log search for hangedman 22:55:01 reaverb: how long ago did he tell you that 22:55:11 days, weeks 22:55:13 Basil: 20140506 22:55:24 convenient 22:55:25 !seen memorygoround 22:55:26 I last saw memorygoround at Tue May 6 14:19:08 2014 UTC (1w 1d 13h 36m 17s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Page closed'. 22:55:31 then 22:55:35 and he didn't tell me, he just said it here. 22:55:49 I don't think I was even in the channel. 22:56:15 Oh huh 22:56:18 that's another nick 22:56:32 Basil: Yes it is. 22:57:44 Hmm, maybe we should see what his last discussion before he left. 22:59:35 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:20 very important fact I learned from reading that log: At one point Gozag allowed you to duplicate the Orb of Zot 23:05:31 That's a feature 23:05:51 sadly the coolness would have been ruined by goldified orb 23:06:04 The Orb of Zot turns to gold as you pick it up. 23:06:08 fr 23:06:38 165,000gp 23:07:20 Hmm, tenofswords last major time was when he added the Shrine to nostalgia 23:11:10 great branch 23:17:57 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 23:17:57 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 23:17:58 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 23:19:40 Grunt: magicpoints: I like this one better because it's less open (re: new tomb:3_ 23:24:02 sounds like it's not at risk of killing nearly enough players. 23:25:03 well the tradeoff is you can mix in other things that are more dangerous in the context of tomb:3 23:25:15 like ancient champions/ancient liches/revenents/unborn 23:25:39 and magicpoint very nearly did die, but she was playing like magicpoints 23:25:39 ??haunt 23:25:40 haunt[1/3]: (L7 summ/necr): Summons 2-6 wraiths and undead "ghost" type monsters around the target. Smite-targeted, but only castable on a monster. Considered to be super good. Causes sickness when cast unless you worship Kikubaaqudgha and pass a piety-in-200 check. 23:25:50 ??haunt[$ 23:25:51 haunt[3/3]: < crate> anyway if you have haunt sickness doesnt matter anyway < crate> because you have haunt 23:25:59 Monster haunt gets flayed ghosts, right? 23:26:22 hm. FTILE: . = floor_slime / none 23:26:25 this causes the game to crash 23:27:38 -!- NotKintak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:43 -!- fungee has quit [] 23:29:01 yeah I bet "non" is problematic 23:29:02 *"none" 23:29:16 but I'm also not sure if it allows the / syntax 23:29:23 in which case you might need to use different glyphs 23:29:32 was copying from https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:help:maps:syntax:headers 23:29:45 which suggests FTILE: . = floor_grass:20 / floor_dirt / none 23:30:02 that does not crash. weird 23:30:23 oh, the tile is probably bad 23:30:29 as in floor_slime isthe problem 23:30:33 well 23:30:37 I can do floor_slime / floor_hall 23:30:54 and that works, it's just then I have elven hall floor tiles on half the level 23:30:56 which isn't ideal 23:31:19 ah, yeah I see floor_slime elsewhere 23:31:48 so floor_slime never shows the tile? 23:32:05 as in does FTILE: . = floor_slime work 23:32:10 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:24 that works 23:32:26 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:32:52 well, it turns out that floor_slime is an alt 23:32:55 maybe that's the reason 23:32:58 an alt? 23:33:02 try 23:33:08 floor_bog_green 23:33:24 ./dat/des/branches/temple.des:3284: bad spec: 'floor_bog_green' in 'floor_bog_green' 23:33:33 ok, so yeah that wouldn't help since 23:33:40 you'd have to specify 1-3 23:33:46 there are three different alts for floor_slime 23:33:55 (see dc-floor.txt) 23:33:59 in rltiles 23:34:07 ok one more test 23:34:09 floor_moss 23:34:11 does that work 23:34:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:34:28 floor_moss alone works 23:34:43 I mean in tandem 23:34:45 floor_moss / none crashes 23:34:51 interesting 23:35:03 ASSERT(idx < TILE_FEAT_MAX) in 'rltiles/tiledef-dngn.cc' at line 18 failed. 23:35:41 I would track this down for you, but I'd recommend you !tell Grunt 23:35:45 he'll figure it out faster 23:35:54 ok 23:35:58 thanks! 23:37:24 !tell Grunt putting "FTILE: . = floor_slime / none" causes the game to crash; stack trace http://pastebin.com/sVuNeBgU . is this expected? 23:37:25 PleasingFungus: OK, I'll let grunt know. 23:38:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:39:45 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:40:34 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 23:47:14 -!- repehenryclay has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:51:32 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null]