00:00:08 gammafunk: My solution to that would be just remove player sInv 00:00:11 I don't think it makes too much sense to keep the ring and not the spell (or vice versa) since it's not in a starting book 00:00:32 Oh, AND it has a wand. 00:00:36 either you think the effect itself is bad to be able to use infinitely or you don't, I guess 00:00:38 reaverb: no the problem I'm referring to is that invisible monsters in general are too much of "ev boost + interface screw" 00:00:42 yeah wand can get removed 00:00:54 right, you'd instead want to target one of the consumables 00:01:34 the potion is interesting honestly 00:01:34 I think removing the ring and spell would be better than removing the consumables. 00:01:48 the only problem with the potion is that new players tend to think it's useful in tight situations 00:01:51 I guess I'm biased for the ring since I've never used the ring to get online. 00:01:53 which it usually isn't 00:02:41 the spell is important for stabbing characters; if you invest in the necessary stealth and the necessary hexes to effectively use it, you get the benefits 00:03:35 gammafunk: The same is true of literally any other Hexes spell. 00:03:40 yes 00:03:47 right, and we're not removing those spells 00:03:47 that's one of the reasons it's a good hex 00:04:08 Except those other Hexes do not have the problems Invisbility has. 00:04:12 is it ok at all for general dev for some effects to be usable from multiple sources? 00:04:17 one thing that might be good to change is - failure to evoke an invis ring has no cost, right? 00:04:20 that probably shouldn't be true 00:04:30 because it encourages repeatedly trying to evoke it at high fail chance while outside enemy LOS 00:04:38 johnstein: I think having an effect or conduct from too many sources is a bad thing. 00:04:39 Invis isn't very problematic when it has that kind of cost 00:04:40 or is the ultimate goal to attempt to isolate each effect to a single source? (I'm still trying to get a feel for the right level) 00:04:55 Right now I think Aux slot denial is a bit overused. 00:04:56 can you quickly explain your problems with invisibility again? Invis-stabbers are a very popular type of character in the game and one which has been enjoyed for a long time 00:04:59 for example. 00:05:06 what trivializes the monster is the combination of stealth + being invis, but again there are costs there 00:05:11 'aux slot denial'? 00:05:14 trivializing monsters is what stabbers do in a nutshell 00:05:35 Pleasingfungus: Felids, Horns, Beaks, Claws, Ds, etc. 00:05:42 oh. that's uh 00:05:49 kind of completely unrelated to the current conversation 00:06:07 PleasingFungus: That was in responce to johnstein. 00:06:12 sure. still confusing 00:06:15 anyway 00:06:42 Well, there's not reason to fight over debatable changes when there are changes which I'm pretty sure will be good. 00:07:07 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:13 i.e, Ok, let's keep Invis for now. 00:07:18 Do the changes involve cupcakes? I like cupcakes 00:07:22 yay 00:07:34 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:37 gammafunk: 17dsfkjhasd: remove cupcakes. {reaverb} 00:07:47 commit preview :) 00:07:59 I will fight it to the end 00:08:03 gammafunk: My current thought was removing sapavore 00:08:12 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-752-gd51cf91 (34) 00:08:13 from orcs and such. 00:08:19 hrm, but Ko? 00:08:24 how do you mean exactly 00:08:27 does ko even have saprovore? 00:08:28 kobold saprovore is real fun 00:08:35 or, uh, carnivore? 00:08:36 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:08:37 ??ko 00:08:37 I don't have a page labeled ko in my learndb. Did you mean: co, fo, ho, ke, lo, mo, o. 00:08:38 yeah 00:08:39 Not carnivore, sapavore. 00:08:41 ??saprovore 00:08:41 saprovore[1/1]: Lets you eat rotting meat (8/10 normal nutrition at level 1, 14/15 at level 2). Also gives more nutrition from eating contaminated chunks: 1/2 nutrition at level 0, 9/10 at level 1, and 29/30 at level 2. Level 3 is a ghoul. 00:08:45 ??kobold 00:08:46 kobold[1/2]: One of the three main causes of early-game mage death, thanks to spawning fairly often with either darts, stones, or a blowgun+poisoned needles. Melee characters should not need to worry too much unless the kobold is using curare-tipped needles. 00:08:52 ??kobold[2 00:08:52 kobold[2/2]: While the true nature of the Kobold remains a mystery, some ancient texts have described it as "a sort of brown moth". 00:08:52 oh 00:08:54 useless! 00:09:00 I didn't even remember that was a separate thing 00:09:04 which bodes well for the removal 00:09:05 tbh 00:09:10 you could merge it with carnivore pretty harmlessly 00:09:12 or just remove it 00:09:14 w/e 00:09:21 yeah Ko is sap 2 00:09:26 but I was thinking more carnivore, yes 00:09:38 Going to remove it except on Trolls and Sh 00:09:41 er, Gh 00:10:15 contaminated meat gives less nutrition even when fresh, yes? 00:10:19 I love the distinction between saprovore 1 and 2 00:10:20 ??contaminated 00:10:20 contaminated[1/1]: Chunks with lowered nutrition. 00:10:24 ??chunk 00:10:24 chunk[1/1]: Weighs 10 aum and gives 1000 nutrition. Comes in clean, {contaminated}, rotten, poisonous, rotting, or mutagenic varieties, depending on the corpse they came from. 00:10:30 ??choko 00:10:30 choko[1/2]: Chayote, a green vegetable of the gourd family. 600 nutrition. 00:10:44 PleasingFungus: It use to be more meaningful but then chunk stuff god changed. 00:10:48 <|amethyst> are you going to remove ogre fastmeta too 00:10:58 one tenth of a choko per chunk 00:11:13 (is the difference between saprovore 1 and 2) 00:11:19 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:11:19 |amethyst: That also sounds like a good change. 00:11:26 hrm, what does does sap even do with no nausea 00:11:35 what do most of you use to develop? vim? visual studio? 00:11:44 vim, sadly 00:11:51 gammafunk: well, it's about two-thirds of a choko per contaminated chunk 00:11:53 sadly?? 00:11:54 with ctags/cscope? 00:11:54 which is... something 00:11:55 SADLY!?!?!?!?!?! 00:11:57 hahaha 00:12:01 PleasingFungus: 00:12:03 oh actually I lied 00:12:07 !send Grunt emacs 00:12:08 Sending emacs to Grunt. 00:12:08 mostly xcode 00:12:11 and a little vim 00:12:18 !send vim gammafunk 00:12:19 Sending gammafunk to vim. 00:12:32 johnstein: I use vim with ctags. 00:12:35 someone should probably flip the !send syntax at some point. 00:12:38 god, how do I get out of this damn edit mode?! 00:12:42 Although I keep struggling with ctags. 00:13:00 I need to get cscope installed I think 00:13:02 I'm not smart enough to know whether I should use ctags or cscope or both 00:13:03 PleasingFungus: I highly recommend you learn more vim and then switch completely to vim. It's the path I took. 00:13:14 thank you 00:13:15 I didn't know any vim a year ago 00:13:22 Although maybe I didn't learn to use Xcode to it's full pontential. 00:13:25 having to admin the VPS really forces you to learn 00:13:29 I'm not sure how ctags interacts with vim, but it's probably more important than cscope 00:13:33 I live in the year 2014 so I will use an editor that has heard of a "mouse" 00:13:38 I'm really liking it now. esp with cscope/ctags 00:13:48 -!- miek_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:49 jumping around like a code-ninja 00:13:57 and is not literally older than my younger brother 00:14:00 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: so gvim 00:14:02 ...that phrase didn't work 00:14:03 haha 00:14:04 PleasingFungus: But you use a keyboard whose basic design was creaed over a century ago. 00:14:08 deep 00:14:10 Even if the technology is differant. 00:14:25 if you keep this up I'm switching to nano. 00:14:32 !seen MarvinPA 00:14:32 I last saw MarvinPA at Sun May 11 04:58:34 2014 UTC (15m 58s ago) saying 'i don't think it's particularly problematic now it's no longer in the En starting book' on ##crawl-dev. 00:14:44 hi 00:14:52 how do you feel about description patches 00:15:04 i feel like i'm going to sleep soon 00:15:06 PleasingFungus: I would review them and then push them. 00:15:17 Although I should also probably go to sleep. 00:15:22 reaverb: no offense, but I want someone to proofread them 00:15:29 PleasingFungus: show me these patches, mortal 00:15:32 haha 00:15:34 PleasingFungus: Ha 00:15:56 PleasingFungus: Yes, when it comes to composition I'm more of a big picture guy. 00:16:14 "A monster. Looks mean" 00:16:20 sounds good. ship it 00:16:21 Although you could just copy and paste the changed files in word. 00:16:21 http://sprunge.us/YSGF 00:16:29 -!- Bcadren has quit [Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.] 00:16:48 I literally have not touched microsoft word in many years. 00:16:54 it's nice 00:17:06 PleasingFungus: What word-like program do you use? 00:17:09 well 00:17:11 none, really 00:17:20 why would I need one 00:17:40 PleasingFungus: Well, actually I have no idea. 00:17:43 haha 00:17:51 Just seems odd to me for some reason. 00:18:00 I also haven't printed anything... since college, maybe? 00:18:05 what do you use for composing documents that will be printed--ah 00:18:07 "and never eating intelligent" 00:18:14 PleasingFungus: Well I'm still in college so. 00:18:16 <|amethyst> I sadly had to start using Word again for some stuff 00:18:17 was gonna say latex every time seems not that bomb 00:18:20 <|amethyst> usually it's LaTeX for me 00:18:26 gammafunk: yes? 00:18:33 there's a 'beings' on the next line 00:18:42 yes but the grammar is wrong 00:18:44 I tried to use LaTeX to do my Calculus homework once a while back. 00:18:48 It was awful. 00:18:49 given the previous part of the sentence 00:19:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-753-gc6d5b38: Let elemental evokers weight evocations skill when using automatic training 10(65 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c6d5b38e8af9 00:19:02 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-754-g963c9f6: Only display the Bribe status light while in a branch that is being bribed 10(35 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=963c9f65ab9d 00:19:05 refraining, avoiding, eating 00:19:05 at least it sounds wrong to me 00:19:07 sounds good to me? 00:19:18 Followers must remain pure of body and soul, 00:19:18 +refraining from dark magic, avoiding mutation, and never eating intelligent 00:19:22 PleasingFungus: I don't like the killing remark on Dith. 00:19:25 well 00:19:26 I really want to learn LaTeX since it will be much easier for version controlling than Word or PowerPoint 00:19:31 something should mention that dith likes killing 00:19:33 <|amethyst> I don't see the grammatical problem 00:19:34 since that's mainly how you get piety 00:19:35 And may change him to Exploration piety just to stop that. 00:19:38 hahahaha 00:19:38 I guess it's valid, but it seems a bit awkward 00:19:41 wasn't that tried? 00:19:52 <|amethyst> stylistically I might use the same verb on all three 00:19:52 how about "eating no" 00:19:55 Honestly makes more sense. "Dith likes it when you expore the shadows of the world." 00:20:02 because of the string of ...those ing things 00:20:05 <|amethyst> since "refrain" "avoid" and "never" all mean the same thing 00:20:14 reaverb: big mechanical changes for flavour reasons seem like a dangerous idea. 00:20:29 |amethyst: hm. promising 00:20:36 PleasingFungus: Changing to Exploreation piety is a really small change. 00:20:39 yeah it's grammatically correct, but a bit confusing 00:20:49 reaverb: it's really not? 00:20:54 It's just "Give peity for moving forward and not sitting down somewhere" 00:21:27 Doesn't matter how you track it, gold, seen monsters, killed monsters, Exploration, etc. 00:21:31 I thought that was ash's shtick 00:21:48 It was big on Nemlex because his old methods were exploitable. 00:21:51 SamB: it's also being moved onto nemelex (or that's being tried, anyway) 00:21:55 SamB: New Nemelex has it. 00:22:06 PleasingFungus: "God" generally isn't/shouldn't be capitalised 00:22:10 PleasingFungus: I think the "For following this code, forsaking dark magic ..., The Shining ..." sentence could be simplified somehow 00:22:29 MarvinPA: it was very consistently capitalized everywhere in the old text 00:22:32 MarvinPA: except for mono/tritheists 00:22:53 gammafunk: yes, TSO gave me the most trouble. hm. 00:23:27 Yredelemnul the Dark is an evil God 00:23:30 Xom is a wild and unpredictable God 00:23:34 Zin is a God 00:23:37 (this is all old text) 00:23:45 wow 00:23:46 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: that is not "consistent" 00:23:53 |amethyst: isn't it? 00:23:54 <|amethyst> is a god who meditates on the mystery of time. 00:23:59 o 00:24:05 <|amethyst> the unbudging god isall-knowing, all-seeing. 00:24:13 all the ones I looked at when I was trying to figure out style 00:24:18 style can be changed, of course. 00:24:24 <|amethyst> I would say change all the uppercase to lower 00:24:35 <|amethyst> "This God" sounds German :P 00:24:43 as long as Kiku remains a Demon-God, I'm happy 00:24:44 Die Gott 00:24:48 er 00:24:52 Das Gott? 00:24:57 it is so very hard writing without pronouns or abbreviations 00:24:57 Der Gott? 00:25:02 "Soldiers in their God's eternal crusade against evil, followers of The Shining one are bound to the code of the honourable warrior, which forsakes dark magic and underhanded tactics" ? 00:25:02 especially when you're dealing with The Shining One 00:25:16 very clause-heavy though 00:25:20 T.S.O. ? 00:25:39 also "tithe a (small) fraction" seems awkward, could be "tithe a small fraction" or "tithe a fraction" or something, also i'm off to sleep i guess 00:25:44 SamB: nothing in crawl refers to TSO afaik (as "TSO") 00:25:57 I thought tithe meant 1/10 00:25:59 MarvinPA: yeah, I'll remove the parens 00:26:04 SamB: the old description said that 00:26:05 how about "and forsake dark magic and underhanded tactics" 00:26:06 it lied 00:26:16 also tso is "the Shining One" not "The Shining One" 00:26:30 okay, I guess some people talk about tithing a different fraction ... 00:26:30 really? huh 00:26:46 so t.S.O ? 00:26:48 Pleasingfungus: My trick with Dith was to use they god's title instead of a pronoun. 00:26:52 oh it's literally in his name 00:27:05 reaverb: that tends to be really awkward too - most of the titles are clunky 00:27:07 -!- MiraclePrism has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:07 he's The Shining One at the beginning of a sentence though 00:27:20 wheals: yeah I think that's what threw me off 00:27:28 reaverb: reminder: "Yredelemnul the Dark is an evil God" 00:27:30 worst sentence 00:27:40 *sentence fragment 00:27:44 PleasingFungus: No, just "The Dark is an evil God" 00:27:50 that is 00:27:50 even worse 00:27:55 (no offense) 00:28:18 -!- notclyie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:28:21 PleasingFungus: A) I think Yred is a bad example because of his title. B) It makes more sense in context. 00:28:41 yred's bad title was exactly my point, though 00:29:02 gammafunk: I solved the TSO Dilemma 00:29:15 just took out the repeated clause about the code 00:29:16 PleasingFungus: I think Yred's title is bad too, maybe change it 00:29:30 Followers of the Shining One are bound to the code of the honourable warrior, soldiers in their God's eternal crusade against evil. For forsaking dark magic and underhanded tactics, The Shining One rewards them and their allies with the power they need to slay demons and the undead. 00:29:43 <|amethyst> you missed one 00:29:47 fuck 00:29:48 <|amethyst> capital The 00:29:49 I forgot about that 00:30:00 description *ruined* 00:30:01 too many things to change 00:30:05 ok, fixed that and a third The 00:30:17 reaverb: I'm not going to make that sort of change in this commit! maybe in another commit 00:30:21 that and fedhas's weird surname 00:30:25 has anyone ever used it? 00:30:26 it's so goofy 00:30:34 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:38 ??fedhas 00:30:38 fedhas[1/7]: Abilities: prayer turns corpses in LOS into skeletons, turns zombies into skeletons (or destroys them), destroys ghoul genus monsters for piety gain, causes toadstools to grow; evolution - turn plants or fungi into stronger species. Upgrading fungi costs piety, upgrading plants costs fruit. 00:30:45 ??fedhas[2] 00:30:46 fedhas[2/7]: sunlight - illuminates a small aoe inflicting backlit status and evaporating water; growth - creates plants in a circle around you, costs 1 fruit per plant, if a complete circle can't be placed plants are placed on open squares closest to monsters; reproduction - spawn giant spores from corpses in LOS 00:30:57 Madash? 00:30:57 it has to stay because of sprint 4, sorry 00:31:01 haha 00:31:03 PleasingFungus: If your description patch is improved by changing the titles, there's no reason the title change can't land first. 00:31:11 or Sprint name changes. 00:31:27 Unless it does something weird like spell out the title. 00:31:30 in the vault. 00:31:31 MarvinPA: I had literally never gotten that pun 00:31:33 that's great 00:31:42 Oh, Wow, that's great. 00:31:42 yeah you're right we can't change it. 00:31:49 ??Sprint 4 00:31:50 I don't have a page labeled Sprint_4 in my learndb. 00:32:31 Fedhas' Mad Dash iirc 00:32:49 maybe change it to another pun. 00:33:02 demands, demands, demands 00:33:03 Fedhas' Awesome Sprint 00:33:05 rename a map? heresy 00:33:34 the enchantress' distress 00:33:35 Fedhas' Awwsums-print 00:33:39 Or whatever. 00:33:51 <|amethyst> I'm not sure why you'd want to rename Fedhas and not, say, Kiku 00:34:24 <|amethyst> "Madash" is actually spellable by normal people :) 00:34:24 unpronouncable gods are a dcss institution! 00:34:35 |amehtyst: We're talking titles, and Fedhas's Madash second name is sort of a title. 00:34:41 kiku's name is the best name 00:34:51 I still wish one of those kiku-style qaz names had gotten in 00:35:09 I've sort of grown on Kiku, but I think the other bizare ones could go. 00:35:20 |amethyst: madash is spellable, but it's boring and not very 'divine' 00:35:25 however the pun means that it can't go 00:35:26 <|amethyst> I'd rather see the "Madash" become actually part of the name 00:35:33 <|amethyst> like Xobeh or Muna 00:35:34 And maybe also Nexq 00:35:40 fedhasmadash 00:35:54 nexqocek? no 00:35:55 hm 00:36:08 Neqoxec 00:36:12 ahah, I've got you now PleasingFungus 00:36:13 Fedhashmadash 00:36:19 gammafunk: oh no! 00:36:23 cards in return. Followers encouraged to trust in the cards and use them as 00:36:26 Fedhashmadhash 00:36:26 fed hash, ma dash 00:36:30 * gammafunk feels smug 00:36:44 gammafunk: we noticed that on friday... 00:36:48 what 00:36:53 gammafunk: hahahahah 00:36:55 that is 00:36:56 not one of the lines 00:36:58 I changed 00:37:05 still counts! 00:37:10 no it doesn't 00:37:14 :P 00:37:23 it does! you're fixing the descriptions! 00:37:43 oh, I see, it's missing the 'are' 00:37:50 had to read that a few times to spot it 00:38:08 ok, fixed. didn't even have to reflow it 00:38:09 :) 00:39:22 hrm 00:39:23 Those 00:39:23 +individuals can expect to gain powerful healing abilities, by which they can 00:39:28 er yeah 00:39:28 btw, I removed 'evil' from the description of one or more evil gods - at least Yred, possibly others? if we ever add some explanation of what a god being 'evil' means, that'll probably have to be changed 00:39:29 +avoid bloodshed 00:39:30 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:35 that sentence is a little confusing to me 00:39:48 -!- Whistling_Bread has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:56 "evil" in crawl is just "hated by TSO", more or less? 00:40:14 I see you're being brief, but "avoid bloodshed" is maybe too brief 00:40:16 MiraclePrism: in this case, it's the gods who, if you worship after abandoning a good god, you'll get wrath'd for 00:40:26 gammafunk: iirc I took that from the original description 00:40:32 but I can adapt it further 00:40:33 ely has some space 00:40:38 unlike every other good god 00:40:52 with 1,000,000 abilities and restrictions each 00:40:57 PleasingFungus: well, if you look at the clause that came before that in the original, the avoid bloodshed part was more clear 00:41:21 at least in my mind it's more clear what that means, but yeah anyhow it's probably a subjective thing 00:41:36 hm, would you prefer "..., which they can use to avoid bloodshed"? 00:41:46 PleasingFungus: If you're removing the evil bit from gods I would recommand removing it from Beogh. 00:42:05 reaverb: s/evil/super racist/ 00:42:08 clearly 00:42:10 Just because their worshippers strike me more as deluded that ill-intended 00:42:13 the thing is 00:42:17 I'm not changing the actual effect 00:42:22 they're still evil gods in-game 00:42:52 Pleasingfungus: btw, I removed 'evil' from the description of one or more evil gods 00:43:05 yes 00:43:09 So the affect thing doesn't seem to be an issue :D 00:43:14 ? 00:43:30 I mean, I'm removing the 'evil' " " " "keyword" " " " where it makes the descriptions read badly 00:43:36 but I'm not convinced it does that for beogh? 00:43:50 also I strongly suspect I or someone will have to add it back later 00:44:01 when wrath is actually explained in-game 00:44:01 Pleasingfungus: Hmm, that's not the reason I would choose whether or not to keep that word. 00:44:10 But I'll let you make the call since you're doing the work :D 00:44:22 ~ 00:44:27 ? 00:44:28 hrm, shouldn't all evil gods be mentioned as such? 00:44:43 gammafunk: this is what I'm saying: nothing in the game explains the significance of a god being evil 00:44:50 hrm 00:44:52 you learn interesting tidbits when you start sifting through the code 00:44:53 so 00:45:06 well there's the good god -> evil god wrath thing 00:45:08 yes 00:45:10 that's not explained 00:45:12 afaik 00:45:14 I didn't know that butchering a corpse or eating a corpse would help maintain berserk 00:45:19 hahah what 00:45:20 it does? 00:45:24 what the hell 00:45:25 well it probably should be, but I guess we just don't explain wrath in-game, do we? 00:45:31 yes exactly! 00:45:31 <|amethyst> simple_god_message(" says: Your evil deeds will not go unpunished!", 00:45:31 <|amethyst> GOD_ELYVILON); 00:45:36 <|amethyst> simple_god_message(" says: You will pay for your evil ways, mortal!", 00:45:39 |amethyst: a little late 00:45:39 <|amethyst> GOD_SHINING_ONE); 00:45:53 since that's after you already incurred wrath 00:46:08 and it doesn't need you to read the god description, anyway! 00:46:12 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:15 it could go on the boilerplate bit with the TSO/Zin/Ely piety transfer 00:46:17 I guess we'd have to have some special thing under ^ 00:46:23 wheals: there is absolutely no space 00:46:23 in order to indicate wrath 00:46:28 yes that is a problem 00:46:45 i can only imagine a world where scrollable interfaces exist :( 00:46:52 gammafunk: I was talking with people earlier about this. there should be some place where you can read in-game about what will cause a god's wrath (bandonment? worshipping some other class of god? etc) 00:47:01 ok, well the evil thing can be handled in that one-off way (readability over mentioning evil) until we have a solution 00:47:02 and about roughly what you can expect from the wrath 00:47:13 yeah, I suppose at least in the manual 00:47:19 hahaha the manual 00:47:22 but ideally it'd be maybe under ^ 00:47:32 yeah, a third page was what iirc qoala? suggested 00:47:41 which is an okay solution but not ideal 00:47:51 hm 00:47:54 well I'm not sure where else could be more convenient 00:47:55 are there any thing with three pages? 00:47:57 yeah 00:48:00 that's the problem 00:48:06 i guess ^f shopping interface 00:48:07 maybe 00:48:09 <|amethyst> Isn't that what "strongly dislikes" means? 00:48:34 sorry? 00:48:39 <|amethyst> err, I guess that one is penance 00:48:53 yeah, you get to see what can cause penance 00:48:53 yeah 00:48:57 but not what your penance will actually be 00:49:09 <|amethyst> right, I was talking about the first half 00:49:13 er, well I guess penance != wrath 00:49:33 I'm trying to remember - don't some gods actually do things to you in penance besides 'ignore you'? 00:49:45 or maybe that's it 00:50:41 PleasingFungus: s/a number of abilities/abilities/ in the original part of fedhas' descript? 00:50:52 or just some other slight rewording 00:51:10 idk, I'm pretty happy with fedhas 00:51:16 the last sentence in particular is perfect and without flaw 00:51:33 not a big deal obviously, but "a number of" is fluff 00:51:39 mmm. how does it flow without? 00:51:44