00:00:29 ??ruin 00:00:29 ruin ~ rain ~ fedhas[3/7]: rain - creates a circle of water around you, the floor becomes shallow water, shallow water becomes deep water, randomly spawns plants and fungus 00:00:50 !learn edit gammafunk[2] s/$/, clean up your terrible overflow temples/ 00:00:51 gammafunk[2/3]: notes: %0.XX?monster (one ?) for old monster queries, clean up your terrible overflow temples 00:00:58 hmm 00:01:07 ??gammafunk[$ 00:01:07 gammafunk[3/3]: todo: splash art of a felid jumping over a shark to escape from grunt's qbert snake 00:01:17 oops 00:01:54 fr catcycle 00:02:47 wheals: A cat motocycle hybrid? 00:03:15 for shark-jumping 00:03:49 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:48 -!- File200 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:48 -!- jeffro_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:18 -!- swayze has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:32 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:54 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:07:13 Nightmare spell: summons a demon by a monster. Summons a strong demon if the target is asleep. 00:07:54 Red_Bucket: Why would you use that just stab them in the face. 00:08:04 Because you don't need to get close 00:08:27 That's the problem with ranged stabbing we were discussing like two days ago! 00:08:40 <|amethyst> so demon haunt 00:08:53 |amethyst: heh. 00:08:59 ??blink allies 00:08:59 I don't have a page labeled blink_allies in my learndb. 00:09:23 ??guardian serpent 00:09:23 guardian serpent[1/2]: A big snake, usually found in Snake:5 or guarding a vault of treasure (or mimics). Venom bolt, lesser healing, slow, teleport other. Leaves mutalicious corpses. Dangerous if they teleport you in Snake:5 because you might wind up on the wrong end of the greater naga vault. Unlike real nagas, they have no hands. Also, they're twice as fast. 00:09:30 Grunt is entertaining the idea of bringing back hand crossbows and giving them range stba 00:09:47 Do monsters summoned by haunt go away after the target dies? 00:10:21 i think they do, yeah 00:11:06 Red_Bucket: Except not really anymore. He mentioned the not anymore part here. 00:13:29 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:13:29 -!- UncertainKitten has quit [Quit: Connection reset by pier.] 00:14:16 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:20 The ?/ lookup command has bizarre behavior during the character generation screen by Dagoth 00:20:12 goodmantis 00:20:26 &watch Dagoth 00:20:27 %watch Dagoth 00:20:27 No current CSZO game for Dagoth. 00:26:09 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:28 -!- Nefhilion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:32:35 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 00:34:55 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:36:14 I'm leaving soon. 00:39:58 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:59 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:11 -!- thrall has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:38 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 00:43:43 d 00:43:49 123 00:44:12 ENDMAP 00:45:06 Presence updater? 00:46:06 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:10 Please change orc dot 00:47:14 Please change orc dot 00:48:55 Hello thrall! 00:49:04 Good luck talking to us. 00:49:17 Hello 00:49:50 Please change orc dot 00:50:40 Orc seems weak picture. 00:50:59 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:51:53 thrall: Try saying that in a differant way. 00:52:20 "dot" is hard to understand 00:52:30 Please note that English is not familiar with. 00:52:43 Picture 00:52:52 orc Picture 00:53:08 The picture for monster orcs? 00:53:09 thrall: Which orc picture? 00:53:29 thrall: Original language? 00:53:37 Knight Orc Orc Warlord 00:53:53 Orc Knight 00:54:05 Orc Warlord 00:54:15 Any more specific complaint? 00:54:22 This photo is not good 00:55:59 ontoclasm normally handles the tiles, I'm not sure how justified changing the tile would be. 00:56:51 I have to go now. 00:56:54 Good bye 00:57:00 -!- thrall1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:10 I agree hanon12's degree 00:57:50 ah, you think the new orc tiles aren't good? 00:58:02 South Korea may be a matter of taste 00:58:12 yes 00:58:31 Did not show strong 00:58:33 well thrall1 if you can find an artist to make alternate tiles 00:58:45 I hear some south koreans are very good artists :) 00:58:48 -!- thrall has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:59 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:59:27 How about Coz several appear at random? 01:00:29 Apply three random tiles1 tiles2 tiles3 01:01:02 Effort went into the existing group of tiles is 01:01:21 thrall1: we tend to only do that for enemies like chaos spawn that truly change shape 01:01:37 roctavian, the maker of those tiles, would be ok if better tiles were submitted 01:01:43 he has lots of other contributions 01:03:06 but in any case, if you can have better tiles made by someone, talk to ontoclasm here on irc or make a bug report on mantis with the new tiles 01:03:19 Should not apply in a variety of monsters like that picture? 01:03:47 Like monster 01:04:00 Various image 01:04:17 We prefer consistency in the artwork; the same monster gets the same tile for the most part 01:04:30 just because it would be so much work to make alternate tiles for each monster 01:04:42 Thank you 01:04:47 no problem :) 01:05:08 I'll look for artists 01:05:37 Thank you for your response. 01:06:24 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:46 Now I hope you good luck 01:07:04 You too! 01:08:21 -!- Duffy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:08:54 -!- thrall1 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:11:59 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140505030202]] 01:20:27 the logic of bolts being unblockable is because they pierce, right? 01:20:54 Shouldn't reflection shields be able to block them since it's not stopping the bolt, it's reflecting it? 01:22:02 no 01:35:03 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:35:44 -!- eb has quit [] 01:42:34 -!- Red_Bucket has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:44:51 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:16 -!- palacebeast has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:47:18 -!- archaeo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:48 -!- Orfax has quit [] 01:48:03 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:04 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:48 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:39 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 02:00:18 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:14 -!- Bcadren_ is now known as NSASpyBot 02:02:18 nonethousand supplanted insufficient and opaque data. Please clarify the intent of 'no.' 02:05:05 -!- Insomniak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:08:48 -!- ayutzia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:15:04 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:16:19 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 02:22:13 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:24:53 -!- ayutzia_ is now known as ayutzia 02:28:55 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:38:21 -!- scummos^ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:40:33 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:40:45 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:30 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:58 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:12 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:45 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:45:45 -!- Lprsti99___ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:16 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 02:49:54 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:52 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:16 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 02:53:13 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:54:28 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 03:00:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:18 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:42 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 03:23:29 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:31 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 03:25:28 -!- Duffy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:31:03 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:31:09 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 03:32:34 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:34:50 -!- capablanca has joined ##crawl-dev 03:36:27 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:36:27 -!- capablanca is now known as mikee_ 03:46:42 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:47:12 -!- gfdoals has joined ##crawl-dev 03:47:22 -!- gfdoals has quit [Client Quit] 03:48:42 -!- Arkaniad|Laptop has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:52 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] 03:55:36 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 04:00:45 !tell dpeg some gozag feedback: http://bpaste.net/raw/260324/ 04:00:45 elliptic: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 04:01:05 !tell Grunt some gozag feedback: http://bpaste.net/raw/260324/ 04:01:05 elliptic: OK, I'll let grunt know. 04:06:53 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:13:00 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:25 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…] 04:41:48 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:48:18 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50:41 -!- johnny0 has quit [*.net *.split] 04:50:42 -!- Nerem has quit [*.net *.split] 04:50:42 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 04:50:42 -!- ekix has quit [*.net *.split] 04:50:48 -!- Lantell has quit [*.net *.split] 04:50:48 -!- lavos has quit [*.net *.split] 04:59:41 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:00:00 -!- agentgt has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:03:33 -!- qoala has quit [Quit: Abscond!] 05:03:44 -!- Lantell has joined ##crawl-dev 05:07:23 !tell reaverb re stat drain, recovery over time definitely isn't great and i've wanted to replace it with recovery via xp gain (like new draining) for a while. not something that i've done any work on or am particularly planning to work on soon though 05:07:23 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 05:08:00 !tell reaverb removing recovery also seems like something that could work though (and making agility/might/brilliance also restore their respective stat, perhaps) 05:08:00 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let reaverb know. 05:09:17 MarvinPA: Wow sil stat drain 05:09:31 yes, all the best ideas are stolen from sil 05:09:37 MarvinPA: fr violet molds 05:09:43 (They drain max hp) 05:09:43 give frederick song of binding 05:09:46 haha 05:11:50 frstaff of treasures 05:19:34 make TILES=y crashes by plaidman 05:26:18 -!- Spatzist has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:28 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:28:52 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 05:30:35 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:40:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:19 -!- NSASpyBot has quit [Quit: Man who run behind car get exhausted] 06:09:16 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:09:37 -!- Grunt has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:10:06 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 06:12:33 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:21:16 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-448-g6a80b7c: Fix tiles compilation (plaidman, #8504). 10(6 minutes ago, 7 files, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a80b7c58fa3 06:21:18 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:42 -!- scummos__ has quit [Client Quit] 06:22:09 hmm, i only need to do 30 commits to move into second place! 06:23:17 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:24:43 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:27:19 Nordon (L21 GrFi) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1444: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 2008 (2008) (WizLab) 06:28:31 Nordon (L21 GrFi) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 1444: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 2008 (2008) (WizLab) 06:31:38 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:53 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:34:17 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:39:46 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:40 GIT merge indicators in unrand storm bow description by plaidman 06:42:42 -!- 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bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:16 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:08 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:28:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:32 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:29:00 -!- raskol has quit [Client Quit] 07:38:43 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:17 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:49:20 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:50:23 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:51:17 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:52:38 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:45 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:04 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:06:00 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:07:37 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 08:08:20 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-449-g41b37af: Remove some accidentally left-in git merge indicators (plaidman, #8505). 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=41b37af680d5 08:08:22 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:47 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:27 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 08:12:09 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:13:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-450-gaa3bbea: Don't let identify scrolls identify multiple items 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 9+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aa3bbeabe4c6 08:13:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-451-g5094c63: De-rune some doors in sprints 10(22 minutes ago, 2 files, 16+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5094c6349f02 08:13:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-452-g0c3765a: Remove butterflies from some vaults 10(10 minutes ago, 3 files, 11+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0c3765a75212 08:13:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-453-gb29b535: Specify longbow-ness in descriptions of Sharnga and the storm bow 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b29b53555541 08:13:54 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:23 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:16:02 -!- debo has quit [Quit: debo] 08:16:18 -!- Quazifuji_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:18:18 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22:29 -!- Xeiph has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:23:09 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:41 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:06 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:28:26 Tossi (L4 DDNe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:2) 08:28:26 Mansion (L2 OpTm) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:2) 08:28:27 SomeoneAwful (L6 SpEn) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:3) 08:28:29 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29:47 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:35:47 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:38:13 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:38:25 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:26 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-453-gb29b535 (34) 08:40:47 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:41:30 -!- MiraclePrism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:41 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:43:52 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:46:36 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:47:12 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 08:48:40 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:49:29 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:49:49 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:52:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 08:52:40 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:55:49 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:55:56 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:35 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:22 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:59:09 -!- Eonwe9 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:01 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:09:11 -!- memorygoround has joined ##crawl-dev 09:10:00 well, I'm going to lose sleep thinking of the blood splatters from that sacrifice for my summoning 09:11:27 I'm on indefinite break, I am dead tired and extremely distracted by outside concerns from here, and even with the new position I can't deal with the inevitable mass trimming slowly taking place 09:11:41 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:20 practice magicking out design intents from vaults for once if you want anything resembling my usual mass work 09:12:43 -!- memorygoround was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [memorygoround] 09:13:30 rip hangedman 09:13:40 oh damn 09:13:40 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:13:42 am i missing something here 09:13:44 I thought this was spamming 09:13:47 oh, haha 09:13:59 how can I undo my kickban :O 09:14:06 yes it took my a while to parse that 09:15:04 *took me 09:15:55 -!- memorygoround has joined ##crawl-dev 09:16:01 memorygoround: sorry! 09:16:02 it's "/mode -b whatever" 09:16:28 perhaps I should have left the voice on for a more obvious clue 09:17:20 I have been doing many other things and the last of my goodwill would vanish trying to argue anything 09:17:53 memorygoround: what do you mean by "inevitable mass trimming"? 09:18:13 just pretend I don't exist for, hmm, let's say the six months to the next version 09:18:37 -!- Eonwe9 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:40 that's alright, hope you're better when 0.16 comes around :) 09:18:48 pff 09:19:01 I hope crawl development is better when 0.16 comes around 09:19:08 -!- memorygoround has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:19:54 He has a point but I have no idea how to improve that. Do you? 09:22:02 That's also on the bits kilobyte mentioned before he retired: communication and decision making should be completely re-thought. I just don't know how. Also, I can't seem to reach people, so perhaps I'm part of the problem. 09:22:11 s/on/one/ 09:23:23 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:31 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:24:06 -!- bones___ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:26 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:26:04 elliptic: thanks! Can I reply by email? 09:26:32 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:29:13 i just won a gozag game and pretty much agree with elliptic's thoughts, incidentally (especially re: call merchant) 09:30:21 i like the conduct, works pretty well i think (not having to worry about eating chunks also just makes play so much nicer!) 09:30:52 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:50 bribe was a little underwhelming and potion petition probably too strong (but both are adjustable in various ways) 09:33:17 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:33:50 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:33:51 -!- Goncyn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:22 MarvinPA: yes. Bribe was buggy, I think. 09:34:33 MarvinPA: did you use duplication? 09:34:45 -!- ais523_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:34:46 yeah, although i didn't need it (on a wand of heal wounds) 09:35:01 i should have duplicated my rod of inaccuracy instead since i didn't need the extra heal wounds 09:35:15 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:35:18 you think the choice is interesting? 09:36:17 hmm, i think it can be 09:37:02 theoretically, it looks as if very early use of the power is best (like duplicating an Assassin's starting curare needles) but probably there is more to it. 09:37:12 how does the chunks -> porridge thing work with ghouls? 09:37:15 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:17 it doesn't 09:37:22 i was considering duplicating a scroll of acquirement but by the time i was thinking of using duplication i didn't have anything i needed to acquire 09:37:31 i also didn't realise it could duplicate entire stacks of items 09:37:42 i don't think it should be able to, that seems potentially problematic 09:37:44 when does it kick in? 09:37:56 from the go 09:38:38 MarvinPA: yes, but the longer you wait for a stack to becomes larger, the longer you've not-used the power 09:39:52 true, but it enables some silly things i think, like making multiple trips to stack up more ammo/large rocks than you can carry or something 09:41:24 my first thought was using it on runes, but I'm pretty sure that isn't allowed with rune goldification 09:41:25 yes, although this kind of proves that *that* duplication would be wasted even before you start ") 09:41:35 i agree that's probably not a particularly effective way to use it, i guess if i had known it worked on stacks i might have considered using it on scrolls of blinking or something 09:41:51 <|amethyst> ais523_: maybe if you use trowel to get an altar beneath an existing rune 09:41:56 you can actually duplicate runes at the moment if you apport them over to an altar (and happen to have an altar on the floor somehow) 09:42:01 <|amethyst> oh, apportation 09:42:06 I guess we can tweak duplication rules easy enough at any time. 09:42:06 that trowel effect was removed 09:42:08 trowel doesn't make altars any more so you'd have to get really lucky 09:42:14 <|amethyst> ah 09:42:14 [14:44:14] <@MarvinPA> Do you wish to duplicate the Orb of Zot? 09:42:15 [14:44:19] <@MarvinPA> Gozag duplicates the Orb of Zot! 09:42:17 maybe abyssal rune 09:42:38 if there are any abyssal rune vaults with altars 09:43:56 (also i don't think you'd actually gain anything from duplicating runes since everything checks for unique runes now? but it's still hilarious) 09:43:59 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:44:14 <|amethyst> I guess the "non-artefact" thing is for flavour more than anything else 09:44:54 <|amethyst> since the only reason I can think of that you'd want to duplicate an artefact is to have your trove and eat it too 09:45:09 randart ring with good resists 09:45:11 wear one on each hand 09:45:13 you might want to duplicate an artefact ring feasibly, yeah 09:45:14 ring of robustness 09:45:14 <|amethyst> hm 09:45:17 <|amethyst> yeah, rings 09:45:26 gozagscumming 09:45:26 or one on each tentacle as an octopode 09:45:38 can only duplicate once 09:46:02 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:46:31 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:46:35 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:47:01 !tell elliptic Thanks for awesome Gozag feedback! Are you okay with my reply going to c-r-d: that way I can reach more people (Marvin tested and feedbacked too.) 09:47:01 dpeg: OK, I'll let elliptic know. 09:51:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:53 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:48 oh bugger, I made a typo in my mantis report title 09:52:54 How can I edit that 09:54:19 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:54:19 it's set in stone and you'll be mocked forever for it 09:54:26 :p 09:54:38 (you can't unless you have a dev/updater account on mantis i think, what issue is it and i can edit it) 09:54:42 !learn MiraclePrism Doesn't even get mantis report titles right!!1! 09:54:43 I don't know about !learn MiraclePrism. 09:54:57 03MarvinPA02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-411-g666557d: Make a note when duplicating an item under Gozag or gaining Qazlal's resistance gift 10(47 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=666557d4993e 09:54:57 03MarvinPA02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-412-ga45ebf3: Track gold paid to Gozag and show it in character dumps 10(32 minutes ago, 4 files, 13+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a45ebf36cc98 09:54:57 03MarvinPA02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-413-gf5605ea: Don't allow duplicating the orb of Zot or runes 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5605eaff62f 09:54:59 Some messages for monsters being seen for the first time do not the monster_warning channel by magicpoints 09:54:59 !learn add MiraclePrism Doesn't even get mantis report titles right!!1! 09:54:59 MiraclePrism[1/1]: Doesn't even get mantis report titles right!!1! 09:55:26 that one should say "do not use" 09:55:32 ah yeah, done 09:55:35 MarvinPA: obviously! Thanks for FR :) 09:55:44 erm, MarvinPA <--> MiraclePrism 09:56:41 -!- crate__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:56:49 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:58:41 Hmm, now I see that one is inconsistent because sometimes you get "A trapdoor spider comes into view." after it leaps out and sometimes you don't 10:01:29 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:01:50 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 10:03:03 -!- Grunt has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:03:16 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 10:03:41 * Grunt escapes from the netsplit abyss! 10:05:10 MiraclePrism: at a glance it looks to me like those messages do/should use MSGCH_MONSTER_WARNING 10:05:20 so probably there's something complicated going on :( 10:06:00 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:02 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:26 Grunt: with a netsplitted rune? 10:11:48 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:12:11 feel free to just tell me "it's complicated," but why is hangedsomeone mad? 10:12:25 i guess i missed something 10:13:18 you need a manifesto 10:14:16 dpeg: which I can no longer duplicate :( 10:14:57 I can't even tell if that rant was actually related to crawl, or if it's saying he's overwhelmed by not-crawl and needs a break 10:15:00 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:15:35 * geekosaur kinda understands that one especially since his disordered neurons are being especially disordered today and everything's a bit overwhelming at the moment... 10:15:35 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:44 he didn't tell me what the "inevitable mass trimming" is. I still don't have know. 10:17:38 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:22:44 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:38 -!- odiv has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:11 -!- debo has joined ##crawl-dev 10:25:29 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:25:39 -!- odiv has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:37 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:30:28 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:36:56 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 10:38:19 !bug 7708 10:38:19 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7708 10:38:57 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:58 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 10:38:58 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:38 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:46:38 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:47:05 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:52:02 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:53:15 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:03 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:11 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 32.0a1/20140505030202]] 11:01:29 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:09:08 dpeg: of course, you can link or copy my feedback whereever.... I only put it on bpaste because that was easy and I was tired :P 11:10:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 11:11:25 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:20 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 11:12:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:12:39 !messages 11:12:39 (1/2) MarvinPA said (6h 5m 16s ago): re stat drain, recovery over time definitely isn't great and i've wanted to replace it with recovery via xp gain (like new draining) for a while. not something that i've done any work on or am particularly planning to work on soon though 11:12:42 !messages 11:12:43 (1/1) MarvinPA said (6h 4m 43s ago): removing recovery also seems like something that could work though (and making agility/might/brilliance also restore their respective stat, perhaps) 11:13:27 dpeg: btw, I had no clue that you could duplicate a stack of items... feels very unnatural to me from a mechanical point of view (you can duplicate these 5 potions all at once just because they happen to have the same contents...) 11:13:50 elliptic: You can do that? That is indeed extremely unintuitive. 11:14:18 That sounds like a bug <_< 11:14:32 (By the way, if item duplication doesn't make it as a Gozag ability is hould be made into a scrolls which spawns less than once a game) 11:14:41 s/hould/should/ 11:15:28 elliptic: re: duplication: may be weird flavour, but I think it makes for better choices. 11:15:44 will take that up in the Gozag mail 11:16:12 <|amethyst> also makes it reasonable to use on ammo 11:16:54 <|amethyst> (but while "saving up" does lead to interesting choices, it might also lead to tedium) 11:17:36 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:17:56 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 11:17:58 What does "suspended" mean in mantis? 11:18:16 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:53 I was thinking of resloveing 8297 since the reporter says it's working again and no progress has been made on finding the problem, or even determining if the problem is with Crawl. 11:18:56 |amethyst: what kind of tedium? I myself never know what a good number of blinking scrolls (say) would be. I believe the answer depends on how threathened your character is, which would be interesting. 11:19:11 <|amethyst> probably something like "we'll revisit this later" but we usually use open for that 11:19:20 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:44 |amethyst: We probably should use open for that! But Ok. 11:19:48 shouldn't 11:19:49 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:54 <|amethyst> reaverb: we do :) 11:20:00 <|amethyst> err 11:20:03 <|amethyst> I just said that, doh 11:20:18 dpeg: carrying 50 large rocks to an altar, say 11:20:20 reaverb: I don't want to have too many open things (non)discussed on c-r-d. Once I manage to get weights out of the way, in one form or another, I'll bring up monster pickups, including your proposal. 11:20:21 <|amethyst> reaverb: unable to reproduce maybe? 11:20:48 dpege: Sure. 11:21:03 elliptic: does it count as tedious if it's clearly non-optimal? 11:21:24 We sometimes have this discussion about obviously boring, but also bad strategies. Should we prevent players from those? 11:21:27 |amethyst: I thought about that too, I guess I'll just leave it open for now, wait for a mass bug purge to decide how to clasify it. 11:21:31 I agree that duplicating ammo isn't a big deal, yeah 11:21:40 <|amethyst> reaverb: It's a crash in the video driver and upgrading the video driver helped, so "not fixable" might make sense 11:21:48 -!- ystael has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:22:00 |amethyst: Ok, I guess I'll resolve it as that. 11:22:13 dpeg: I'm more concerned about duplicating stacks of potions being boring, personally :P 11:22:21 one-time god abilities should do something cool 11:22:57 elliptic: what if the follower of Kikubaaqudga decides to painify the starting +0 club? :) 11:22:57 duplicating a ring or +9 rod feels cool to me, doubling how much curare or heal wounds you have doesn't 11:23:17 I am fine with restricting options, just don't want to lose interesting choices. 11:24:15 anyway I don't feel that strongly about item duplication one way or another, I just thought I would mention that I definitely didn't expect it to work on stacks and I haven't heard of anyone else who expected this either 11:24:34 <@dpeg> We sometimes have this discussion about obviously boring, but also bad strategies. Should we prevent players from those? <- that's coming up in NetHack development atm, wrt stash management 11:24:36 i think the decision might be less interesting if you can always fall back on more heal wounds or blinking, yeah 11:25:02 I do think that saving acquirement to duplicate 2 or 3 scrolls at once is sort of cool, for the record 11:25:05 actually I think the players who get bored of spending hours rearranging inventories in NetHack and move over to Crawl then get bored of spending hours rearranging inventories in Crawl 11:25:10 (duplicating my heal wounds wand already felt boring) 11:25:15 the problem is that it doesn't help, in either game 11:25:18 and yet the players do it anyway 11:25:22 MarvinPA: if those are always best, it'll be better to remove those, I agree. I never can bring myself to do it, because you can wait for another one :) 11:26:01 MarvinPA: but was it the best move? 11:26:25 ais523_: in my personal opinion, you (as a dev) should go a little out of your way to help players out of their predicament, but not very much so. 11:26:54 I'm not sure what to do about it, at the moment 11:27:08 although for 4.3 we're focusing on internals improvements anyway, so it's not my problem yet 11:27:17 not really, i was already more than strong enough to win. should have used it much earlier, probably on blink scrolls i guess since the god provides lots of potions (but it was an easy character generally, being a minotaur) 11:27:56 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:28:17 you could just merge gozag and igni 11:28:27 ontoclasm1: no no :) 11:28:27 pay to build an artifact 11:28:48 -!- sanka has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:48 originally, duplication was slated to come late, but I thought it'd be better to have the option from the start 11:29:06 for an extreme example, if you stumble upon a good slaying ring very early, then you could take Gozag to make another one 11:29:35 -!- bones__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:56 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:04 or you could be greedy like me and wait most of the game in hopes of a better slaying ring :P 11:31:43 elliptic: exactly. I like these kinds of choices. 11:32:07 It's the god of greed after all! 11:32:29 dpeg: won't people duplicate then immediately abandon him? 11:33:17 Well then you deal with Gozag wrath 11:33:26 dpeg: yes, greed is good :) 11:33:36 ??gozag wrath 11:33:37 I don't have a page labeled gozag_wrath in my learndb. 11:34:23 at some point during my game I was wondering if abandoning gozag to kill a dragon to get a hide and then rejoining was at all reasonable... 11:35:12 elliptic: the hide should turn to gold as you pick it up <3 11:35:19 (the Midas curse) 11:35:50 (my char eventually just got MDA from margery) 11:36:36 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:36:38 freezing wraiths should trail ice clouds like rotting devils did 11:39:23 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:40:09 ontoclasm1: there is a fire version of this already, so why not? 11:42:40 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:43:48 it wouldn't matter much but it'd be distinctiv 11:43:54 which they currently aren't at all 11:43:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:08 ontoclasm1: yeah 11:46:08 they have the wraith drain speed thing plus AF_COLD, they seem fairly noticeable compared to most other Ws 11:46:57 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:48:37 they're fine as enemies 11:49:11 an ice trail would mean basically nothing in terms of fighting them, it'd just look cool 11:49:16 no pun intended 11:49:23 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:07 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:12 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:53:25 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 11:55:33 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:45 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:08 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:03:38 -!- UncertainKitten has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:16 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:08:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:50 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.15-a0-453-gb29b535 (34) 12:23:33 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-414-g7f6b2db: Another item_to_spec special case. 10(63 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7f6b2db8b2a1 12:23:33 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-415-gd431298: Gozag: only duplicate one of a stack of items. 10(43 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d431298c337f 12:23:33 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-416-g572f825: Nudge Gozag's passive gold detection. 10(55 minutes ago, 2 files, 3+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=572f82576940 12:23:33 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-417-g10aade1: Place Gozag shops at the player's location (elliptic). 10(63 minutes ago, 3 files, 39+ 39-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=10aade1c3987 12:23:33 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-418-g3d25e48: Make Gozag shop prices independent of content (elliptic). 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 59+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d25e4839cc5 12:23:33 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-419-g3e420f0: More tweaking to Gozag's potion lists. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 32+ 68-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3e420f06d3d4 12:25:13 Grunt: I was actually thinking that gozag shop prices could be independent of shop type too 12:26:08 I'm not convinced of that - it would make it much more obvious to buy certain types of shops than others. 12:26:15 would it really? 12:26:16 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:26:32 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:26:44 I'm not sure why it would 12:27:04 <|amethyst> why would you pay more for a weapon shop than for a scroll shop? 12:27:09 It's significantly more desirable to, say, expand the set of spells available in your game than extend your food supply a bit. 12:27:24 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:13 food shops are sort of weird with gozag in general, since they duplicate the porridge petition for most species 12:29:28 note that you get a different set of three options each time and randomization would still mean that sometimes some shops types are cheaper than others 12:29:49 so I feel like there would still be plenty of variety of decisions to make 12:29:50 <|amethyst> I would argue that, if anything, weapon shops should be cheaper, since you're taking a pretty big gamble as to whether it will have anything you can use 12:30:04 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:04 <|amethyst> cheaper than consumable shops, that is 12:36:36 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-420-g108d81e: Don't factor in shop type for Gozag shop prices either (elliptic). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 51-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=108d81e660f7 12:36:39 <|amethyst> also, isn't passing "false" to item_value there kind of bad? 12:36:39 <|amethyst> Doesn't that make the price of shop types change depending on whether you've identified the representative items? 12:36:39 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-420-g108d81e 12:36:39 phew, gozag email on the way 12:36:41 Hey devs, would any of you be willing to answer a few questions about how miscast code works in a PM? 12:36:50 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-420-g108d81e 12:36:51 Grunt: boo! 12:36:57 i thought miscast code only works in the channel 12:36:59 some of those things I wanted to avoid :( 12:37:05 :p 12:37:31 I've been typing for one hour, discussing pros and cons of some of them :( 12:37:40 (commits can be reverted easily!!!) 12:38:03 yes, but usually they're set in stone 12:38:07 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:51 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:40:23 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:58 -!- Bayushi has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:56 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:51:53 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:53:12 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:48 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:59:32 -!- newbie is now known as Guest81333 13:01:23 -!- LNCP has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:32 -!- Bayushi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:02:40 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:03:35 -!- Guest81333 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:03:35 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:00 -!- Basil is now known as Guest9698 13:04:47 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:49 When Gozag detects a pile of gold in the level, which is under another item, the item itself is detected and not the gold 13:05:13 I don't know how it looks in console, but in tiles I saw a scroll of identification because there was gold under it 13:05:33 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:25 Wahaha: that might have just been fixed, I think 13:06:30 Wahaha: yes, reported already 13:06:52 elliptic: what do you think about monsters skipping turns as gold effect? 13:07:58 it could be good 13:08:07 devil is in the numbers of course 13:11:42 yeah, it might be trickier to balance than some of the other options... I'd be interested in trying it though 13:12:21 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:14:01 better to link effect to total amount of fresh gold rather than number of fresh piles? 13:14:25 (otherwise players might feel obliged to kill, step, etc) 13:17:02 this question stands for any kind of effect 13:17:41 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:17:54 not sure, linking actual gameplay effects to the sizes of the piles feels sort of bad to me if the pile sizes are going to depend on monster mass 13:18:40 I agree that number of piles sounds more interesting in itself 13:18:55 what about just making multiple corpse gold piles on the same square not combine? 13:19:01 of course, we could count the virtual piles 13:19:07 ... what you say there! 13:19:39 Okay, what if each active pile gives a 1% chance of a monster skipping its action 13:19:52 -!- notanhacker has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:20:04 -!- Ultragnash has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:18 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:21:42 (if we want to make sure that flow doesn't change, we can say that only non-movement actions will be possibly skipped) 13:22:33 Does it currenlty/should it scale with the amount of gold? 13:22:43 "Kill the dragon first to make the unique skip it's actions" 13:22:52 -!- PleasingFungus has left ##crawl-dev 13:22:56 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:03 reaverb: that is what we were just discussing... it doesn't currently and I don't think it should (because monster corpse weight is not something that players should have to think about when making tactical decisions IMO) 13:24:41 elliptic: Oh, oops. 13:24:47 Looks like I missed a few messages. 13:24:52 also, generally more interesting if killing the smaller monster first has an advantage 13:25:13 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:25:14 so with 1% and ten fresh piles, that'd be quite some skipping 13:25:45 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 13:26:00 ten fresh piles is not very likely to happen in practice, and even 10% skipping isn't that much 13:26:03 Hmm, "skipping" or "lower monster energy" 13:26:14 so I'd replace 1% by 2% at least :) 13:26:19 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:26:36 or 5%, then nerf it when everybody flocks to use it and we see how it plays. 13:26:37 ok ok 13:26:47 dpeg: my experience in bot-writing showed that one of the hardest tactical decisions for a bot to make is, do you kill the weak enemy first or the strong enemy first? 13:26:50 reaverb: that's a very good design principle (for reals) 13:26:58 so making that more interesting is probably going to help out humans too 13:27:10 ais523_: I'd think so 13:27:18 dpeg: Yes, I got it from David Sirlin, he mentioned it in an excellent article about playtesting. 13:27:43 we had a number of new features that started out too weak, and then had a hard time getting traction 13:28:21 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:28:30 okay, so let's start with some ridiculously high % and see what happens 13:28:31 ais523_: my experience in crawl bot-writing is that killing strong enemies first is usually right 13:28:45 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:29:07 -!- zxc232 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:08 right, I guess that's a good rule of thumb for a Crawl bot 13:29:20 because the dangerous enemies can be so much more dangerous than the non-dangerous ones 13:29:25 Now the other one: what do you think about changing the mode of Gozag's powers? From "fixed, can be postponed, may be unaffordable" to "generated on the fly, has to be used, is affordable"? 13:29:50 ais523_: How imperative is this crawl bot's design going to be? I'm curious because a lot of current crawl bots are imperative. 13:29:58 ais523_: isn't it almost always like this in tactical situations (nothing to do with roguelikes or Crawl, imo) 13:30:44 A lot of times in certain other genres you want to kill weak things first because they go down more easily and then you're less pressured for the rest of the fight 13:30:50 reaverb: I was thinking about NetHack, not Crawl, but many of the same considerations apply 13:30:53 These genres have some important differences from Crawl though 13:31:08 dpeg: I generally like that (and Basil suggested something similar I think) 13:31:14 in NetHack, sometimes you want to kill weak enemies first in order that you can kite the strong ones safely, because the dungeon layout has fewer pillars 13:31:16 ais523_: Oh oops, looks like I need to pay more attention. 13:31:23 that's OK 13:31:36 making the abilities uncancellable is a bit unfortunate (since cancellable abilities are nice) but unavoidable in this case I think 13:31:43 I tried to make a Crawl bot on the same principles, but gave up when I couldn't get screen parsing to work (elemental colors were a major source of issues) 13:31:56 elliptic: it does solve the weirdness that you always look up the next set after using one 13:31:58 and I was working on TAEB::AI::Planar, which is basically a search algorithm in strategy space 13:32:02 so less imperative than many of the other bots 13:32:22 ais523_: kiting is much less good in crawl anyway after the first level 13:32:33 regardless of dungeon layout 13:32:38 I was thinking of ranged kiting, mostly 13:32:39 ais523_: Hmm, that sounds useful. 13:32:55 bots are much better than that than humans are 13:32:56 dpeg: yeah, that's why I like it (and it would nerf potion petition a decent amount) 13:33:01 I saw TAEB fight a water demon for like ten minutes once 13:33:01 true 13:33:11 *much better at it than humans are 13:34:05 -!- bzn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:34:14 alright, finally the contentious one: shop locations 13:34:48 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:34:55 elliptic: which Gozag version did you play -- how far away were the shops? (In the first version I tested, they went to somewhere like Depth:3 all the time, and it was a huge letdown.) 13:35:14 dpeg: what precisely do you mean by far away? 13:36:06 in the version I played (which was the most recent one before the last changes), "far away" meant backtracking to much easier levels 13:36:16 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:20 The closest is "on the next level" (e.g. you're on D:8 and the shops goes to D:9). If you're on D:8 and the shop goes to U:3, then that's extremely far away -- it will be a very long time (or never) until you see the results of your investment. Not good. 13:36:24 like going from V to Elf:1 or Shoals:2 13:36:38 ah, I see 13:37:26 elliptic: would it be better if shops were always placed downwards (same branch, deeper is possible, same level if not -- only one merchant shop per level)? 13:38:18 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-454-ga840274: Refactor _altar_prayer() a bit 10(68 minutes ago, 1 file, 19+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a840274186e1 13:38:20 more than that, though, it felt incredibly awkward and spoily that I was incentivized to not enter levels until I ordered a shop there 13:38:20 no, because you'd still run out of levels 13:38:20 which I think is intrinsically bad 13:38:20 I want to run out of levels! 13:38:20 -!- notcluie is now known as notlucy 13:38:21 the player doesn't know which levels are legitimate shop levels... from the player's perspective, they are suddenly unable to use the ability 13:38:23 You only have one resource to manage, I think it's more interesting like this. 13:38:38 oh, but that's easy enough to explain 13:38:50 Hmm, I don't know whether to be happy or said my name change means Chei keeps pinging me.. 13:39:41 the gold cost is a much more relevant penalty if you know how the ability works 13:39:44 -!- absolutego has left ##crawl-dev 13:39:56 i don't think running out of levels is an interesting restriction, since it can already be restricted by the cost, yeah 13:40:10 or rather, it's not an interesting enough restriction to justify the significant downsides for having it work that way 13:40:21 -!- notlucy is now known as notcluie 13:40:33 but prices don't go up, you can keep going at it forever 13:40:48 prices do go up, no? 13:40:59 or is that just potions 13:41:04 they were supposed to in the original design, but I thought they didn't 13:41:10 they do i think, yeah 13:41:16 i'm not sure how significant it is 13:41:23 that could be tweaked though 13:41:27 Hm, then I guess you don't buy my point about "shops going to [somewhere] made me change my plans" either? 13:42:09 dpeg: the problem is that "change my plans to go enter Elf:1 and find the shop and then leave again without entering Elf:2" isn't a good sort of plan-changing 13:42:11 -!- FVG has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:32 I think we appreciate completely different things about this. 13:43:33 dpeg: honestly, I do like the non-immediateness of the shop generation in some ways 13:44:08 yes, there is the psychological effect of delayed gratification -- I am a sucker for that, got to admit it 13:44:12 how about making it still one per level and possibly far away, but allowing it to be on visited levels? 13:44:16 but I don't see a good way of making it work 13:44:21 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:44:28 i guess that could be annoying in terms of backtracking 13:44:51 yeah, that just seems annoying whenever it places on a cleared level 13:45:16 "choose a random near-ish level, if it's cleared put it under you" 13:45:18 perhaps we can reconcile: I trust you that unlimited shops is not a problem (because it won't happen), and the game tries to use a nearby, new level -- if it can't, it will fall back on player level? 13:45:25 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 13:45:32 that way, we get delayed gratification and choices early on, but painless shopping later on 13:45:47 so, what wheals said only with more words 13:45:48 it was early on that it bothered me though! 13:46:03 later on I didn't use the ability because I wanted to save gold for other stuff and had less desire for shops 13:46:05 elliptic: yes, but with the change you don't have to worry about using up levels anymore! 13:46:12 -!- morik___ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:19 well, other gods also make you wait for their flashiest abilities 13:46:43 elliptic: so if you make it to Elf:1, you can visit Elf:2 or not, does not affect shopping 13:47:28 dpeg: "nearby, new level" bothers me - if you are worried that the shop will place somewhere that is dangerous for you to enter, you will just go to lair:8 or temple or D:1 or something before using the ability 13:48:22 basically I don't think the ability can use your current location to decide where to place the shop unless it is actually always going to place the shop at your current location 13:48:23 "nearby" for me means "a new level in the same branch or adjacent, close to where you already got" 13:48:49 it is never current location: it is always about where you already went (the Ctrl-O information) 13:49:07 well what does "same branch" mean then 13:49:17 if it is just using ctrl-O information and not your current location 13:50:20 Here is what I want: if you have explored D:1-8 and nothing else, and you get a shop, that shop should be placed on D:9, or perhaps (with lower chance) on D:10 or O:1 or L:1. Doesn't matter if you use the ability on D:1 or D:8. 13:50:34 basically what I am saying is that crawl geography is complicated :P 13:51:03 so your new shop isn't far away, and you will want to explore towards where it is anyway, but some monsters may be between you and the goodies 13:51:16 okay, but what if you have entered D:1-14, Lair:1-8, Snake:1-5, and Vaults:1-3 13:51:20 ah, so "near" meaning near to the farthest you've gone 13:51:21 -!- Fizybubbleh has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 13:51:28 crawl geography is complicated 13:51:30 yes, that is what I meant by Ctrl-O 13:51:43 -!- FVG has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:17 elliptic: we have (sensibly) cut Lair subbranches, so that shop would go to V:4, or V:5 if you're unlucky, or Depths:1? 13:53:01 I think it's cool that there is some effort before you can look at the stock. 13:53:31 dpeg: how do you determine which of those? I don't understand this algorithm, sorry 13:53:59 does it never generate in orc? elf? 13:54:48 there is a set of levels that you have touched -- each untouched level has a distance to it; shop location is a weighted roll over all egilible levels (untouched, not Lair subbranch) with weight = inverse of distance 13:54:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:55:05 you are exhausting a tree, if that helps :) 13:55:13 dpeg: maybe it is possible for this to work if G shops only generate in D/V/Depths 13:55:50 Do you think it is bad if you did all of Orc, none of Elf, are in Lair and the shop goes to E:2?? 13:55:56 but it seems really bad to me if orc/elf are options too, since you are still incentivized to leave levels there untouched in that case 13:55:57 yes 13:56:03 (which would be distance 2) 13:56:03 why? 13:56:17 No, there is a misunderstanding here! 13:56:54 I am fine with placing shops on *touched* levels if there are no untouched ones. You don't have to worry about leaving leves anymore! 13:57:01 I'm specifically worried about getting orc or elf shops when you are XL 20 13:57:05 I'm not worrying about that 13:57:26 you mean you skipped Orc/Elf because you find them boring? 13:58:29 that is one bad thing that can happen, yes... I skipped elf because it is boring, I cleared some of V and/or depths, and now gozag is forcing me to autotravel all the way back to elf to check out a shop 13:58:54 Hm, I think that says more about our Elf branch than about Gozag, to be honest. 13:59:00 a second bad thing that can happen is that you delay orc/elf intentionally so that you have a higher chance of a safer shop when you are in Vaults/Depths 13:59:02 -!- Kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:59:14 -!- Kaidessa is now known as kittykai 13:59:16 This, otoh, you could call strategy. 13:59:41 btw, as a Gozagist, I always do Orc 13:59:48 and early 13:59:53 I call it "undesirable exploitation of understanding the complicated algorithm used for shop placement" 14:00:00 but that might just be me 14:00:06 it's not complicated :) 14:00:10 what's wrong with only placing shops in D/V/Depths, anyway? 14:00:19 Orc is the shopping mall, for one. 14:00:37 Players shun Elf, so it seems good to make Elf interesting at times, as two. 14:00:40 orc already has shops, gozag merchants don't want to be so close to the competition :P 14:00:49 but this *doesn't make elf interesting* 14:00:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:01:28 well, now we have the question if the Elf branch is interesting at all -- I have to assume that yes, because otherwise, why do we ship it? 14:01:34 and it has negative features that I have explained 14:01:50 sure, elf can be interesting 14:02:01 but it being interesting has absolutely nothing to do with gozag placing shops there 14:02:33 I value having to fight a bit before you get to the shop much higher than the autotravel that's perhaps necessary to get there -- is this the main difference? 14:02:34 basically I just see no positive features of gozag placing shops in orc/elf and multiple negative features 14:02:47 you can fight a bit in D/V/Depths 14:02:50 without the backtracking 14:02:54 I am completely missing something here :( 14:03:04 but backtracking is so pain less 14:03:09 -!- ekix_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:03:23 -!- scummos__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:38 not really 14:03:52 you are not thinking about speedruns, are you? 14:03:54 no 14:03:56 not at all 14:04:28 dpeg: basically I would rather make that XL 20 character fight part of depths:1 to get to their gozag shop than fight part of elf:1 14:04:32 is this so hard to understand 14:04:34 [I notice this from time to time: I play so slow, but IRL and with my character, that I sometimes fail to see annoyances that other players have.] 14:05:10 * dpeg is thick today 14:06:18 ok, I would really like to have Orc in there (because Orc early is interesting, and especially good for Gozag), so what about restricting to D/O/V/U? 14:06:33 I do think that says a lot about Elf, and nothing good. 14:06:52 dpeg: huh? my only objection to orc/elf is that they are side branches 14:06:54 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:06:58 elf would be okayish if the elves didn't destroy your consumables like there's no tomorrow 14:06:59 but V is too! 14:07:04 unfortunately that is still so 14:07:05 also, I fail to see how orc gozag shops are interesting still 14:07:15 orc already has tons to offer gozag chars 14:08:18 okay, okay: Gozag shops go to an untouched level in D/V/U, weighted by proximity; or to the player location if no such level 14:08:21 better? 14:10:03 I'd be fine with something like that, yes, though there are still various details to consider (should shops be placed in V before rune lock is opened? should V:1 and U:1 really have the same weight if you haven't entered either? should V:5 get gozag shops? (IMO no)) 14:10:56 Well, I'd say yes to all, but I feel I am the odd one out here. 14:12:05 I'd say that placing a shop in V is fine if you have actually visited all of D:1-15 14:12:47 to me, bad luck with shop placement (e.g. V:1 rolled before rune lock) is not much different from bad luck with the stock 14:12:52 not sure about V vs U weighting... maybe giving them the same treatment is fine 14:12:56 sure 14:13:25 if all of your shops end up on the other side of the lock, then maybe should get a rune 14:13:34 Does anybody mind if I remove D:2 spawns from the Lair branches? (I'd just replace them if MONS_NO_MONSTER for now) 14:13:54 ball pythons, giant mites, what else? 14:13:55 reaverb: not at all 14:13:57 so at this point I think we only disagree about V:5 gozag shops :P 14:13:58 Things like bats in the Shoals. 14:14:09 wheals: Bats, Jackels, Quokkas, etc. 14:14:19 elliptic: that's just a question of good cop/bad cop. I'm the bad one! :) 14:14:20 jackals and quokkas don't generate in lair branches, do they? 14:14:31 i mean ones that are in lair branches, but bats are another good one 14:14:35 reaverb: all of those can go 14:14:53 Bah! I say generate shops in the Slime rune vault! :) 14:15:03 elliptic: Oops, that's in the Lair itself. 14:15:30 reaverb: I'm fine with removing the really weak stuff from shoals/snake/swamp/spider, anyway... lair quokkas aren't that bad IMO 14:15:38 The ones in the Lair could probably go to, but Lair branches is completely undebated. 14:15:48 elliptic: Yes, Lair is a bit of a seperate issue. 14:16:29 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:50 oh, can also remove (non-brown) oozes from slime if they generate there (I forget whether they do) 14:17:17 elliptic: I think that's a seperate issue. (Seperate commit) 14:17:45 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:50 Just delete that entry to replace it with MONS_NO_MONSTER? 14:17:56 (They do spawn in slime) 14:18:04 s/entry to replace/entry or replace/ 14:19:33 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:44 -!- kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:22:31 elliptic: So is raising the weight of every other in the slime pits by 1/15th or so fine? Otherwise I need to replace the Ooze weight with MONS_NO_MONSTER? 14:22:55 wow, 1/16 monsters in slime are oozes currently? 14:23:04 Approximately. 14:23:18 Might be misreading the mon-pick-data.h a bit. 14:23:29 !source mon-pick-data.h 14:23:29 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/mon-pick-data.h;hb=HEAD 14:23:45 No idea how to link to a line, but 514 flat weight. 14:24:33 probably replacing with MONS_NO_MONSTER is safest I guess 14:24:34 Same as Azure Jellies 14:25:55 does qazlal make dust clouds? 14:26:06 or is it something else and it's just got a weird tile 14:26:22 so newt in swamp, bat in shoals, ball python+adder in snake, worm+cockroach+mite in spider, ooze in slime? 14:26:26 The former. 14:26:40 I guess python+adder are notable in snake for being non-poisonous food 14:27:33 though there is a decent amount in snake nowadays with shock serpents and salamanders anyway 14:28:03 elliptic: Yes, it can always be (partially) reverted if there's a problem. 14:28:16 Ooze is a seperate commit, already in but Chei 14:29:09 ontoclasm1: those are the earth clouds 14:30:38 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-455-gf506fce: Remove oozes from the Slime Pits. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f506fcee2327 14:30:40 elliptic: Also water mosscains in swamp. 14:30:40 water moccasins aren't D:2 chaff 14:30:40 and shouldn't be lumped in with the other stuff 14:30:40 they aren't particularly strong but don't remove them right now 14:30:40 elliptic: Ok, that's fine. 14:30:40 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:05 great, no oozes in slime pits. now i have to scrap and completely rework my slime pit strategy 14:32:21 yes 14:32:31 can't use oozes as shields against acid blobs now 14:32:42 have to make do with jellies or slime creatures or such! 14:32:50 or shields against shining eyes I guess 14:33:56 -!- bzn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:34:15 fr: shield slimes, I guess 14:34:28 i thought you did stable for your runs 14:34:49 someday grunt will force me to upgrade again 14:36:17 -!- kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36:43 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:54 -!- kittykai has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:31 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:38:56 does removing item destruction from attack flavours sound OK? 14:39:23 -!- zardo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:39:26 wheals: Sounds like a great change to me, but it also sounds like a lot of work. 14:39:49 If you're doing that work I completely support you. 14:39:55 wheals: fine by me, though it might be wasted effort if we actually manage to remove item destruction in general 14:39:56 well it's just some code in melee_attack 14:40:06 it is a pretty easy change though I think? 14:40:07 i think it would just involve flipping a bool parameter or two 14:40:10 yeah 14:40:16 in expose_to_element calls 14:42:04 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:17 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:42:36 Oh dear, forgot to wrap my commit message text.. 14:42:43 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:03 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-456-g3c64b03: Remove some D:2 chaff from Lair branches 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3c64b034492b 14:43:04 Oh well. 14:43:36 I'm guessing bats, for one 14:44:28 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:44:47 gammafunk: elliptic made a list I followed, yes bats. 14:45:04 i should change the default felid sprite 14:45:16 ontoclasm1: Sure. 14:45:17 yeah, that'd be nice 14:45:29 ontoclasm1: did you see a message from thrall from ckr? 14:45:40 i... don't think so? 14:45:46 gammafunk: You should get the title of ninja 14:45:48 -!- ontoclasm1 is now known as ontoclasm 14:45:49 elliptic: sent the results of our discussion. Can you have a look if I got it right? 14:45:53 !messages 14:45:53 No messages for ontoclasm. 14:46:09 it was pretty funny; he doesn't really speak english, but he wanted to convey that some korean players were unhappy with the new orc tiles 14:46:12 ontoclamsm: It's in the logs, I can give you a link. 14:46:13 I can recount it, "Please change orc dot" 14:46:23 gammafunk: thrall also has several mantis issues. 14:46:28 In the exact same sytle. 14:46:28 oh really 14:46:33 Yes. 14:47:05 I suggested he find some of those great korean artists to make new ones, which seem to mollify him 14:47:14 ??goodmantis[2 14:47:14 goodmantis[2/8]: Search for the reports of the user "Thrall". Example: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6767 14:47:24 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:47:25 hey, and now we switch to Korean 14:47:31 ontoclasm1: unfortunately I don't think anyone was able to determine exactly what they don't like about the new tiles 14:47:45 my take was they look too "weak" 14:47:49 week picture 14:47:50 kamsamnida 14:48:03 hm, i'm trying to figure out why the item destruction wasn't being applied twice 14:48:08 Temporary corrosion by 78291 14:48:20 ontoclasm: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/%23%23crawl-dev-20140506.log search for "thrall" 14:48:27 Oh, that patch looks nice. 14:48:32 -!- Guest9698 is now known as Basil 14:48:39 in that expose_to_element gets called in mons_apply_attack_flavour and then later in mons_attack_effects 14:49:47 reaverb: ah, i... see 14:50:07 i'm not exactly sure what he was after, but i guess he wants variation amongst orcs? 14:50:20 ontoclasm: I don't think that was the main complaint. 14:50:33 ontoclasm: if you read the conversation, that was his suggestion to not discard the current work 14:51:02 but basically they think that orc knight/warlords don't look as threatening as they should 14:51:05 oh 14:51:11 I wouldn't take it too seriously :) 14:51:20 but maybe he'll come back with some amazing tiles! 14:51:29 perhaps 14:51:34 big angry eyes 14:51:36 i suppose maybe it was getting applied twice 14:51:36 ontoclasm: key messages: Orc seems weak picture….Did not show strong…I'll look for artists 14:51:42 !seen thundamoo 14:51:42 I last saw thundamoo at Mon May 5 22:41:24 2014 UTC (21h 10m 18s ago) parting ##crawl-dev, saying 'chanpart'. 14:52:01 -!- Kittykai has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:52:05 -!- Kaidessa is now known as kittykai 14:52:13 wheals: hm, maybe it is getting applied twice? I'm not sure we would notice 14:52:42 !tell thundamoo Interesting long rant :) Sounds pretty good to me. File200 suggested Marking the player for placing the altar -- I believe that you should gain piety for killing the incoming buggers (and losing piety if not). 14:52:43 dpeg: OK, I'll let thundamoo know. 14:52:43 Hmm, would anybody mind me pushing that temporary corrosion patch <_< >_> 14:52:51 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:57 reaverb: I wouldn't. 14:53:01 I personally don't enjoy the orc knight tile (the armour looks like tin to me or something :p). But my artistic opinion isn't worth much. 14:53:11 I think it's better than the current situation, but corrosion should probably be on something like XP recharge. 14:53:31 it sounds like a promising patch but whoever pushes it should test it a bit first for bugs :P 14:53:33 And Urug doesn't really stand out, like I mentioned earlier. But that's just one unique. 14:53:34 dpeg: The shifty eyes were intended to show that was only semi-serious. It does probably need more discussion. 14:53:59 oh, I am not good with modern style communication :) 14:54:16 Medar: ah, i guess i could mess with urug 14:54:26 oh right the other thing i wanted to mention was jelly splitting 14:54:32 (not that I think there are any probably, but pushing a patch of that scope after only 5 minutes sounds like generally a bad idea...) 14:54:51 elliptic: Actually it's a suprisingly small patch. 14:55:07 "that scope" means it isn't 1+ 1- 14:55:19 Although I am concerned about the use of both you.props[] and durations. 14:55:33 wheals: please don't remove jelly splitting 14:55:51 elliptic: Hmm, I see what you mean. 14:56:14 maybe it could be toned down? i dived to lair:8 for a jiyva altar recently and reached maxpiety after going back and doing 4 lair levels 14:56:15 iirc 14:56:40 ah, you mean Jelly, the Ally, not Jelly, the Enemy 14:56:41 !lm . god.maxpiety=jiyva 14:56:41 3. [2014-04-24 20:46:01] wheals the Black Belt (L14 TrAM of Jiyva) became the Champion of Jiyva on turn 21100. (Lair:5) 14:56:49 wheals: that isn't really about jelly splitting, is it? 14:57:06 wheals: that can be slowed down, I just want hostile jellies to keep slurping and splitting 14:57:14 I mean, splitting probably speeds things up a bit, but jiyva piety is generally fast 14:57:21 elliptic: no, it is about piety gain 15:01:39 -!- nooodl has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:10 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:03:20 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.15-a0-457-g02d5b61: Switch the default felid tile 10(2 minutes ago, 4 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=02d5b61e5fd4 15:03:40 Hmm, Prince Ribbit is described as "A frog of unusual size". Should I make Prince Ribbit bigger than normal frogs or leave him smaller? 15:04:06 normal frogs aren't giant frogs 15:04:09 so, I mean 15:04:31 PleasingFungus: Sorry, every frog in Crawl is gaint. 15:04:42 s/gaint/giant/ 15:04:49 Well, actually they're SIZE_MEDIUM, but you get the point. 15:04:52 well now that you've nerfed blink frogs, sure! 15:04:52 he's a blink frog which is a giant frog which is a giant version of a frog 15:05:23 tbh all I was going for with that description was a "rats of unusual size" reference. I don't think you need to make him a megagiant frog 15:05:57 Ok, I'll just make him the same size as blink frogs are right now. 15:06:23 PleasingFungus: Size is not a strict nerf, they're less likey to be blown away by the air elemental fan now! 15:06:25 :D 15:06:27 blink frog (09F) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 0/16 | Dam: 2006(blink self) | amphibious, cold-blooded, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | XP: 265 | Sp: blink | Sz: small | Int: reptile. 15:06:27 %??Blink frog 15:06:40 (That's outdated) 15:06:50 %git :/frog 15:06:50 07reaver02 * 0.15-a0-350-g173670c: Make blink frogs SIZE_MEDIUM 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=173670c08884 15:06:54 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07:28 does monster size have any connection to ev 15:08:05 No. 15:09:02 (It was Red_Bucket who told me I didn't update ribbit, correct?) 15:10:14 monster size usually has no gameplay effect 15:10:15 -!- ryansv is now known as HDA 15:10:36 03wheals02 07* 0.15-a0-458-g72017cd: Don't destroy items because of attack flavours. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=72017cd22418 15:10:39 gozag buff 15:10:40 only a few abilities (trample, constriction, etc) check it 15:11:08 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:11:11 elliptic: Yes, the original change was moment of annoyance/getting use to git push ing, I'm just finishing the job. 15:11:15 dpeg: replied on CRD with a few minor comments 15:11:26 thx 15:11:28 huh. soon I will not hate ugly things 15:12:06 PleasingFungus: come up with something more interesting for purple ones 15:12:18 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:36 possibility: AF_DISPEL 15:12:40 yeah, if corrosion is changed, they'll be the last annoying ones. and they used to be the least annoying ones (aside blue ugly things), so that's not so bad 15:13:02 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:13:29 dispel is an interesting thought. not sure how many characters it'd affect, at ugly thing depth 15:13:36 still better than sickness 15:13:53 !lm * br.enter=deths /race=vp|mu|gh 15:13:53 No milestones for * (br.enter=deths). 15:13:55 dispel is pretty unlikely to do much, but of course neither is sickness 15:14:03 !lm * br.enter=depths /race=vp|mu|gh 15:14:04 360/8186 milestones for * (br.enter=depths): N=360/8186 (4.40%) 15:14:12 !lm * br.enter=vaults /race=vp|mu|gh 15:14:13 3435/55217 milestones for * (br.enter=vaults): N=3435/55217 (6.22%) 15:14:19 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:14:28 !lm * br.enter=vaults recent /race=vp|mu|gh 15:14:29 563/12554 milestones for * (br.enter=vaults recent): N=563/12554 (4.48%) 15:14:42 that discrepancy was caused by V being around for much longer than depths 15:14:46 yes 15:15:03 elliptic: maybe af_drain? 15:15:09 !lg * recent 1 15:15:11 1/625369. KiloByte the Cudgeler (L1 MiWn), slain by a hobgoblin on D:1 on 2013-09-25 05:09:15, with 82 points after 147 turns and 0:01:05. 15:15:13 af_slow could be used. 15:15:17 or that 15:15:17 drain sounds maybe okay 15:15:19 On one of the ugly things. 15:15:26 maybe recent should be jan 2014 15:15:33 iunno 15:15:36 af_confuse 15:15:38 mm 15:15:44 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-459-g99c94cd: Make Prince Ribbit SIZE_MEDIUM (Red_Bucket) 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99c94cd19505 15:16:01 Basil: tarantugly things 15:16:09 +1 15:16:12 Hmm, 2 more commit until the —global commit is off neil's main page. 15:16:13 ironically, this means his size is now much less unusual 15:16:17 elliptic: I thought about the disconnection thing -- but didn't we solve that for Nemelex powers already? 15:16:50 dpeg: nem powers are a different situation 15:16:53 also mercs! 15:17:08 those are the three uncancellable prompts, right 15:17:15 elliptic: but you get a prompt (e.g. Stack Five) and could disconnect 15:17:26 wheals: what are they? 15:17:40 There's a enum somewhere. 15:17:41 stack five, draw three, and merc choice 15:17:48 Err, and aquirement. 15:17:55 dpeg: here if you cancel with no effect, then that is abusable because the player might not have wanted to waste gold on any of the options 15:18:01 I understand. 15:18:04 no, acq is cancellable 15:18:13 in the same way that identify for example is 15:18:16 I thought the same applues to Draw Three, though. 15:18:17 with stuff like draw three, you can just treat the cards as wasted 15:18:18 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:33 but here it isn't clear how to handle it 15:18:34 elliptic: so this is still abusable! (Could get three bad cards.) 15:18:39 that sounds abusable if you draw all wild magic, yes 15:18:48 yeah, I guess it probably is 15:18:53 much less so than this would be though 15:19:10 wheals: No it isn't, I just tested it. You cannot cancel acquirement. 15:19:16 that's weird 15:19:25 really weird 15:19:25 I thought so too :D 15:19:27 reaverb: you can if it isn't read-IDed 15:19:35 wheals: you g o t to acquire some goddamn thing! 15:19:35 elliptic: No, can't. 15:19:42 elliptic: No, you can't. 15:19:44 really? that sounds like a bug 15:19:49 yes, it is one 15:19:54 even if it's intended 15:20:06 1learn add devteam 15:20:13 wheals: There's special code for it, so yeah. 15:20:32 Do you guys think this is a showstopper? I'd expect that the game can save the potions right when generating them. (I.e. they will only be displayed to the player once the game could save them.) 15:20:32 ?/oblivion 15:20:32 Matching terms (2): oblivion, oblivionrobin; entries (8): deep_elf_master_archer[1] | diesel_teams[1] | dieselteamideas[30] | elliott_patches[3] | fulsome_distillation[1] | meph_reasons[5] | oblivionrobin[1] | projected_noise[1] 15:20:42 ??oblivion 15:20:42 oblivion[1/1]: The fifth branch of hell, where all of your abilities are as overpowered as they have been in any version of Crawl. 15:21:04 dpeg: huh? what does "save the potions" mean 15:21:21 dpeg: anyway I suggested a solution in the e-mail, it certainly isn't a show-stopper 15:21:28 ah, ok 15:21:29 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:21:39 just something that whoever codes this should keep in mind 15:23:53 is that bug where you can get infinite acquirement by quitting while at the prompt still around 15:24:16 i think that was one of the mac bugs 15:24:18 so, maybe 15:24:29 macs seem to get the weirdest bugs 15:24:53 thanks, jobs 15:24:55 thobs 15:25:29 !bug 6486 15:25:29 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=6486 15:25:53 no one mentions a platform; don't see anything about it being mac-specific 15:25:57 oh ok 15:26:16 probably the fix would be to make acq not unc 15:26:39 yeah that's why I thought of it 15:26:52 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:27:13 -!- HDA has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:24 unless there's some good reason to make it so -- the only one i can think of is not making a HUP on an unidentified one take away your scroll 15:27:40 Genie card? 15:27:40 but that's the case for all scrolls with a choice :/ 15:27:59 acquirement code is awful. 15:28:01 allow cancelling it and wasting the card, i guess 15:28:01 doodad 15:28:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:28:19 wheals: yeah, I don't see why acq should be different from enchant weapon etc 15:29:43 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:29:46 -!- FVG has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:30:17 if you happen to get disconnected while thinking about the prompt then that's rough, but so is getting disconnected at various other moments 15:30:18 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:41 -!- Redz has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:00 Using Branch:$ is considered good form even if a branch's length is unlikely to change, correct? 15:31:51 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:32:52 -!- Crehl has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:01 I just submitted 0.14.1 to the FreeBSD ports tree. Now for some quality assurance :) 15:34:14 blabber: What do you mean by quality assurance? 15:34:43 actually playing the game. 15:34:51 blabber: Ah. 15:35:00 blabber: wonderful 15:35:33 dpeg: Using Branch:$ is considered good form even if a branch's length is unlikely to change, correct? 15:35:46 reaverb: I don't think there are any branches whose lengths are actually set in stone, so yes 15:36:02 elliptic: Ok, I just see Zot doesn't do it and I can change that quickly. 15:36:03 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:36:31 yeah, using Zot:$ instead of Zot:5 in places is probably an improvement 15:37:29 I don't think zot length is very likely to change but I could see it happening at some point if zot:1-4 generation changes in some way 15:38:12 reaverb: yes 15:38:18 dpeg: Thanks. 15:38:26 elliptic: Hmm. 15:38:34 0.16 changes: zot now 27 levels long 15:39:09 (like, if big zot stair vaults are made more common or guaranteed then shortening zot a bit might make sense) 15:40:01 guaranteed acid_trip 15:40:08 mmmmm 15:40:28 or maybe if draconians suddenly lost their item destruction gimick. 15:40:54 Hmm, with wheal's change draconians are going to be a lot more annoying by comparision. 15:42:12 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 15:42:18 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:48 throwing being good was a false alert 15:49:00 -!- ryansv is now known as HDA 15:51:16 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-460-ga82faf0: Make zot.des use !Zot:$ syntax 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 22+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a82faf0b3ac8 15:51:53 rip gsc throwing 15:52:18 large rocks are still lcs 15:52:28 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 15:52:29 the problem is just that things like stones and darts 15:52:33 are utterly useless 15:53:43 would this be a good time to mention dart removal 15:53:48 it took nine stones to kill a jelly at ~50% hp at 8 throwing 15:54:18 -!- lyrick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:31 wheals: because redundant with stones? 15:54:37 Bloax: were you throwing at the jelly? 15:54:42 dpeg: yes 15:54:47 and tomahawks 15:54:50 Bloax: was a silly joke 15:54:57 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]] 15:55:38 http://pastebin.com/f14zUW9b hilarious combat logs.txt 15:56:58 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:19 !lm bloax x=str,dex 15:57:20 4859. [2014-05-06 20:39:22] [str=18;dex=10] Bloax the Chucker (L4 OgHu) killed Terence on turn 1504. (D:3) 15:57:24 huh 15:57:29 20 str 6 fighting 8 throwing 15:57:47 you can't kill four jackals standing in a line in a corridor with 40 stones 15:57:50 jelly buff, I guess 15:58:15 -!- eb has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:58:45 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 15:59:21 Bloax: no sling, right? 15:59:26 no 16:00:19 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:35 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-461-ge292186: Remove a couple incorrect comments 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e292186e3781 16:01:54 good 4.1-ism 16:02:19 wheals: Know of any others? 16:02:41 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:47 none that i can think of off the top of my head 16:03:01 -!- syllogism has quit [] 16:05:29 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:30 -!- BirdoPrey_ is now known as BirdoPrey 16:05:35 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 16:05:41 jelly (04J) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-21 | AC/EV: 0/2 | Dam: 308(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, amphibious, see invisible | Res: 06magic(12), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 42 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 16:05:41 %??Jelly 16:05:57 -!- Sequell has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:01 interesting how that thing sucks up 16 stones http://pastebin.com/NV9s0A38 16:06:44 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-462-gf669498: Remove the Summon Elemental spell 10(43 minutes ago, 19 files, 53+ 243-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6694988d399 16:06:58 -!- Patashu_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:58 -!- Patashu has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:07:33 -!- Guest50838 is now known as hypermatt 16:07:33 book of wizardry is getting pretty random 16:07:48 hooray! 16:08:03 -!- hypermatt is now known as Guest92005 16:08:55 i think it looks better with dispersal instead of summon elemental anyway really, in that it has mid/highish-level spells from different schools 16:09:28 oh yeah, since it has summ from servitor now 16:09:30 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:09:46 I heared that having Spellforged servitor in the same book as Haste effects it's play, by the way. 16:09:52 Is it in any other books? 16:10:08 hm, looks like this runs fine 16:10:26 i think another thing about wizardry is that it has no exclusives 16:10:48 huh, servitor is exclusive to wizardry, never mind 16:10:52 (Oh, and can anybody test if the MSVC scripts are necessary to compile crawl on that platform? It'd be awesome if we could drop support for those, and they appear to be autogenerated) 16:11:14 I can check. 16:11:41 i think servitor mainly went in there because nowhere better came to mind when it was added, seems vaguely okay anyway i guess 16:12:08 obviously put in annihil and move parrow to enevenomations 16:12:39 Hmm, that actually probably fits better. 16:12:55 Poision arrow look weird in Annihilations. 16:12:57 -!- Patashu has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:10 poison arrow is one of the best spells in annihilations 16:14:14 poison arrow is pretty appropriate as annihilations-only, yes 16:14:14 also isn't it an exclusive? 16:14:16 I was going to say 16:14:32 oh I see, yes 16:14:39 isn't the point of being in annihilations that it should be rare and exclusive and it's too damn good to be found "randomly" elsewhere 16:15:36 Ok, than the name is just underwhelming I gues. 16:15:38 guess. 16:16:08 I thought the point was "spells that seem awesome but you will never actually cast until you've effectively won" 16:16:14 -!- Patashu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:16:16 IMO don't judge spells by their name 16:16:36 elliptic: that's probably a good idea :D 16:16:56 If you wanted to fancify it, you could call it 'olgreb's poison arrow' 16:17:38 poisonous protrusion 16:18:08 reaverb, which scripts do you want to know specifically are required for an MSVC build? 16:18:23 Keanan: Basically just completely delete the MSVC folder 16:18:33 Oh, yes, that's required for an MSVC build 16:18:47 MSVC doesn't parse make files. 16:18:59 (at least not in a decent way) 16:19:03 Keanan: Oh, well. 16:19:20 <|amethyst> AFAIK make doesn't parse our make files 16:19:21 the stuff in the msvc folder are the project files which tell the compiler what to build. 16:19:23 (Why on earth would Microsoft develop their own standard of course they would) 16:19:24 <|amethyst> only GNU make :) 16:19:30 <|amethyst> reaverb: err 16:19:32 Keanan: Actually, one sec. 16:19:40 <|amethyst> reaverb: makefiles are a bunch of unix commands 16:19:47 |amethyst: Oh, hmm. 16:20:00 <|amethyst> well, they could be a bunch of Windows commands instead 16:20:19 (There's an "import" thing which does a half assed terrible job of trying to make sense of a make file, but it's.. ungood) 16:20:35 Keanan: Could you try deleting crawl.vcproj crawl.vcxproj and crawl.vcxproj.filters 16:20:41 <|amethyst> but they're a bunch of OS-specific commands, with a macro processor and data flow analysis on to of that 16:20:51 <|amethyst> reaverb: those are the files that tell Visual Studio what's in the project 16:20:52 Basically I just want to see if we can not updated the MSCV for ever file added. <_< 16:20:55 <|amethyst> reaverb: you need those 16:21:05 Yeah, you need those reaverb 16:21:27 Keanan: So they cannot be autogenerated? 16:21:31 Correcct 16:21:34 <|amethyst> autogenerated by what? 16:21:39 No more than a make file could. 16:21:40 MSVC 16:21:59 Ok then, didn't understand much about MSVC, thanks for help Keanan and |amethyst. 16:22:20 <|amethyst> reaverb: for example, how will MSVC know it doesn't need libunix.cc? 16:22:28 <|amethyst> reaverb: however, what might be possible 16:22:43 |amethyst: Making our own script? 16:22:45 <|amethyst> reaverb: is to have a script that devs run to update the vcxproj and vcproj files 16:22:59 |amethyst: Yes, that's what I suspected. 16:23:35 -!- Moonsilence has quit [] 16:24:08 -!- Patashu has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:24:27 !source _player_armour_racial_bonus( 16:24:34 Going to guess that's mostly dead code now. 16:24:38 !source _player_armour_racial_bonus() 16:24:42 <|amethyst> it doesn't exist 16:24:45 Oh yes Sequell is down. 16:24:50 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:07 |amethyst: Sorry, looking at an old version of the source code, oops. 16:25:13 %git 58457ea65098 16:25:13 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-1144-g58457ea: Don't lose acquirement if you disconnect at the prompt. 10(1 year, 5 months ago, 11 files, 102+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=58457ea65098 16:25:42 wasn't it renamed to beogh_bonus or something 16:25:43 i feel like the ability to cancel a scroll if you want to outweighs the justifications in the commit, fwiw 16:25:44 since that's what it is 16:25:46 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: yeah 16:26:07 <|amethyst> I don't think it would be too difficult to make an uncancellable that could be explicitly cancelled 16:26:13 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:26:27 hm 16:26:49 yeah, you can already cancel acquirement (in wizmode) 16:27:01 03MarvinPA02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-421-gb6b692d: Reduce the number of items in a Gozag altar vault shop 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b6b692d742eb 16:27:14 so i could commit only the part that extends that to known scrolls 16:27:48 -!- Zooty has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:31 <|amethyst> wheals: what are you working on? the Gozag potion thing mentioned on crd? 16:30:39 no, just acquirement 16:30:54 <|amethyst> to make acquirement cancellable without wasting the scroll? 16:30:58 yeah 16:31:09 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:31:13 looks like i can do that while keeping it as an "uncancellable" 16:31:30 <|amethyst> wheals: but the uncancellable will have to be passed the scroll somehow 16:31:42 <|amethyst> wheals: so that it can destroy it if the ability isn't aborted 16:32:15 yeah, it wasn't as simple as i thought 16:32:17 <|amethyst> fortunately uncancellables take an argument 16:32:31 <|amethyst> only an int, but that's enough for an item slot or -1 for no scroll 16:32:35 suppose you could have ACQ_SCROLL_KNOWN and ACQ_SCROLL_UNKNOWN 16:32:50 since it already passes that in (or ACQ_GENIE) 16:33:02 er, s/CQ/Q 16:33:12 <|amethyst> If you don't set the scroll ident to known until after you acquire, then you wouldn't need to pass that 16:33:27 <|amethyst> I'd rather have uncancellables be more OO 16:34:04 <|amethyst> I had to do contortions to encode information into an int to pass to fineffs, then I said "screw it" and rewrote it 16:34:18 <|amethyst> I think reaverb volunteered for doing that kind of thing already :) 16:34:40 |amethyst: Sort of. >_> <_< 16:36:01 <|amethyst> (I still want to find some way to avoid the "you must allocate with new" thing; maybe a virtual clone method but that's even more boilerplate for each fineff class 16:37:34 |amethyst: hm, how would run_uncancel tell read_scroll whether it was cancelled? 16:37:39 allow it to return a value? 16:38:13 <|amethyst> wheals: the uncancellable would have to instead do everything read_scroll would do 16:38:59 <|amethyst> wheals: otherwise, what happens when the uncancelleable is actually activated by reconnecting? It's not even being called by read_scroll then 16:39:20 yeah... 16:39:58 <|amethyst> but it may be reasonable to split out the subsequent read_scroll stuff into another function 16:40:05 <|amethyst> post_scroll or something 16:40:12 <|amethyst> then both read_scroll and the uncancellable could call that 16:40:15 alternative to this: add a new acquirement type, "scroll," that always gives a scroll of acquirement 16:40:58 <|amethyst> there's more to aborting than not losing the scroll 16:41:07 <|amethyst> also things like time_taken 16:42:17 Non-existent Abyss foos display in HUD as empty tiles by tedric 16:42:27 so much for a simple fix 16:43:32 The scroll of acquirement crumbles and reforms in your hands! 16:43:37 wheals: If you remove ID'ing Scrolls too it would be simple! 16:48:23 <|amethyst> If only we had call/cc and could marshall the entire stack, this would be so much easier :P 16:48:44 <|amethyst> because that of course works well when functions are rewritten :) 16:48:58 |amethyst: Hmm, how 16:49:07 would that stack marshalling work? 16:49:16 <|amethyst> not very well in C++ 16:49:24 |amethyst: Heh. 16:49:30 <|amethyst> particularly if you wanted to be able to upgrade your saves 16:49:44 <|amethyst> I mean, you could just do a core dump as your save 16:49:44 Yes I imagine. 16:50:02 <|amethyst> that's pretty common for Lisp systems 16:50:51 <|amethyst> of course, it's going to return to the old version of the function (which you also marshalled) 16:52:55 -!- Thundamoo has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:05 <|amethyst> but given that we can't do that, I think making the important parts of the continuation into an explicit function (post_read_scroll) is not unreasonable 16:53:29 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:37 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:50 <|amethyst> And a nice side-effect of that (plus some extra info in the uncancellables) is that you could make every single scroll uncancellable 16:54:09 <|amethyst> but I haven't looked into the details, so there may be gotchas with trying that 16:55:22 <|amethyst> (Also, maybe we should rename them to "restartables" since that would be more accurate if we do start allowing cancellation) 16:55:36 Hey I was wondering if one of you guys could help me with this crash report on that defence god idea that I'm coding. I got him to the point where you can pray at the Steadfast Altar of What's-His-Name and worship him and it works fine 16:55:37 Thundamoo: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:55:51 but if you quit out and reload the save 16:55:54 you get this: 16:55:54 ASSERT(a != 0) in 'tags.cc' at line 2280 failed. 16:56:08 !messages 16:56:08 (1/1) dpeg said (2h 3m 25s ago): Interesting long rant :) Sounds pretty good to me. File200 suggested Marking the player for placing the altar -- I believe that you should gain piety for killing the incoming buggers (and losing piety if not). 16:56:47 <|amethyst> Thundamoo: means somehow you added a 0 to the user's ability table 16:56:56 I figured that much out 16:57:03 but I... didn't change any abilities? 16:57:21 Presumably the only ability that could be affecting this would be "renounce Religion" 16:57:47 But this bug will occur even if you abandon GGGGG before save-quitting 16:57:52 <|amethyst> perhaps something marshalled earlier changed length unexpectedly? 16:58:00 <|amethyst> hmm 16:58:09 Perhaps? I really don't know. 16:58:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:58:48 <|amethyst> do you get that problem if you do a normal save and restore, or only on that crash? 16:59:06 <|amethyst> oh, no crash before the save 16:59:07 What do you mean? 16:59:22 <|amethyst> I was remembering your crash from (yesterday?) but you said you fixed that 16:59:34 Ah, yeah I fixed that. 16:59:39 <|amethyst> Did you change anything in tags.cc? 16:59:49 Yes, that was how I fixed it 16:59:52 Wait 16:59:53 no 16:59:54 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 16:59:56 No not tags no 17:00:05 <|amethyst> hm 17:00:05 I've only looked around in there 17:00:05 -!- debo has quit [Quit: debo] 17:00:19 -!- slacko145621 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:00:42 <|amethyst> what new enums did you add, and where did you add them? 17:00:54 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:56 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:02 <|amethyst> for that matter, can you post your entire patch somewhere? 17:01:15 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 17:01:30 <|amethyst> no new abilities for this god? 17:01:38 I added GOD_GGGGG and DNGN_ALTAR_GGGGG both in their respective sections of the enums file 17:01:41 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:48 And no, he currently has no coded abilities 17:01:49 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:21 <|amethyst> do all saves have this problem, or only worshippers? 17:02:33 <|amethyst> or only levels with an altar? 17:02:39 -!- HDA has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:13 Only worshippers I think... 17:03:19 Let me make an altar and not worship it 17:04:28 No savefile crash if I make an altar but don't worship at it 17:05:27 <|amethyst> Thundamoo: ah, did you add an entry in the appropriate place in god_abilities? 17:05:38 Hmm??? 17:05:43 <|amethyst> aha 17:05:51 They don't... all share an abandonment ability? 17:05:55 <|amethyst> if you didn't, it would be static-initialized full of zeros 17:05:59 Well that might very well be it! 17:06:04 <|amethyst> Thundamoo: they have a list of abilities 17:06:11 Will check now! 17:06:12 <|amethyst> Thundamoo: and ABIL_NON_ABILITY isn't zero 17:06:32 <|amethyst> Thundamoo: you could copy Vehumet's line and put it in the right place (enum order) 17:06:56 Will do! Thanks a ton 17:10:19 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:22 Wait 17:10:24 Uh 17:10:26 Hurm 17:10:34 Where is... god_abilities? 17:10:53 rip summon elementals 17:11:01 (when do we remove ctele?) 17:12:06 Oh it's in ability.cc of coruse it is 17:13:08 -!- file200 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:16:13 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:20 Thundamoo: Look at the gods branch to see how to add a god. 17:16:25 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:43 Crawl is full of this "shotgun sugery" pattern where you have to touch like 8 differant files to do anything. 17:16:46 It works! 17:17:07 +reaverb: okay? 17:17:18 I suppose I will do that 17:17:18 Thundamoo: Hmm? 17:17:26 It's just "reaverb" 17:17:29 OH 17:17:33 I have a + just because I'm a dev. 17:17:48 (Technically it does more than that but dev is what we use it for.) 17:17:51 I DON'T KNOW HOW ALERTING PEOPLE WORKS 17:18:02 Thundamoo: Hmm? 17:18:13 reverb: HMM 17:18:19 Oops 17:18:24 Dunno how spelling things works either 17:18:26 Generally you just say their name, and their IRC client is set up to notify them. 17:18:36 You can generally use tab to autocomplete nicks. 17:18:43 Thundamoo: for example 17:18:45 reaverb: HOLY 17:18:47 Thundamoo: if you want to alert someone, put their nick at the start of the line 17:18:58 reaverb: THE POWER OF TAB 17:18:58 (putting it inside the line also works, but not as reliably) 17:19:05 and yeah, tab helps 17:19:09 reaverb: so OP 17:19:16 the + and @ at the start of the line are channel status, they aren't part of the name themselves 17:19:26 in this channel, a + means commit access 17:19:34 other channels use it for other purposes 17:19:50 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.15-a0-462-gf669498 (34) 17:19:57 also, in most channels, @ means "channel adminstrator speaking officially", but I don't think that's the case here 17:19:58 @ also means commit status, it just also means they can ban you and such. 17:20:05 from the channel. 17:20:23 I know that in the channels I help to maintain, if I turn my @ on, it means that things are serious and you shuld probably listen to what I'm saying 17:20:34 and it's off nearly all the time, because it's rare that I have to do that 17:20:47 Hey speaking of me not knowing basic information, how do I set up a permanent account to this here IRC thing 17:20:51 Here's it's just sort of on all the time, not the norm in freenode. 17:20:56 that's how some around here use it, too 17:21:11 wheals: Oh, well then just dpeg has it I guess. 17:21:20 err, has it on all the time. 17:21:20 Thundamoo: type "/msg nickserv help register" 17:21:23 Thundamoo: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 17:21:26 Thundamoo: nickserv's the account creation bot 17:21:32 it'll explain the process to you 17:21:34 Cool beans thanks 17:21:55 or, yeah, wheals' link is the same advice, except on the Web rather than PMed to you 17:22:52 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:23:03 Thundamoo: "cool beans" do you come from a java background? 17:23:09 :D 17:23:37 Hahaha. No, I come from a Hacking Super Smash Brothers background 17:23:48 -!- rockygargoyle has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:53 It uses a funky wii-only assembly language 17:23:58 so it's nice to work in like 17:24:06 actual code language for once 17:24:14 or to be precise, it probably doesn't use that when Nintendo work on it, but the asm decompilation is the best source that anyone outside Nintendo is getting 17:24:22 Yes. 17:24:22 but it's ironically difficult for me to keep track of the syntax 17:24:29 Yeah 17:24:39 Thundamoo: C++ is especially bad about that. 17:24:49 How good is your IDE? Some can suggest things to you. 17:25:21 Don't be afraid to google like mad, everybody does it. 17:25:26 Might want to checkout ##C++-general 17:25:26 I uh 17:25:26 I use notepad++ 17:25:51 But yeah I have like ten tabs open of like WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN | AND ||??? 17:25:52 THE HECK IS BITWISE 17:25:55 OH DANG 17:26:16 ("OH DANG" may or may not be a real thing I googled) 17:26:41 But yeah thankfully I've had enough experience working in raw hex to pick up on this stuff pretty fast 17:26:44 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:58 Thundamoo: Yes, come languages actually use the words "and" "or" etc. 17:26:59 | treats integers as arrays of bits, and will OR together the matching bits in the integers; || treats them as true (if nonzero) or false (if zero), and ORs together their values as booleans 17:27:04 s/come/scome/ 17:27:07 s/scome/some/ 17:27:18 -!- file200 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:21 reaverb: so does C++, actually, but the || thing is more idiomatic 17:27:30 ais523_: See, I know that now, because I googled it. 17:27:33 and I think you might have to include a header for the word versions; you do in C, at least 17:27:45 ais523_: Wait, so I could just type foo and bar and it would work in C++? 17:27:49 Hmm. 17:28:11 don't, the codebase being inconsistent about that would be a nightmare 17:29:00 ais523_: Hmm, vim macro to change that <_< >_> 17:29:49 WELP thanks again for the help with the bugs. I'm off to dinner. Ta-ta for now! 17:33:18 -!- ais523_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:34:18 -!- Thundamoo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:35:49 <|amethyst> !tell Thundamoo also, learn gdb, it's magic 17:35:50 |amethyst: OK, I'll let thundamoo know. 17:36:01 -!- File200 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:48 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:38 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:41:34 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:45 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:43:08 -!- zardo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:43:42 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:47:04 -!- nooodl has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 17:47:27 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:47:45 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:48 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:23 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:54:30 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:54:50 -!- crate has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:54:56 -!- eb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:55:04 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:07 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:12 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:58 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:22 -!- Basil is now known as Guest30580 18:01:34 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:43 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:06:09 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:06:37 uggh, i have no clue what to do for air elementals 18:06:40 this sucks 18:09:09 -!- emagenta has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:36 http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/images/creature-shots/Neutral/air_elemental.jpg 18:10:41 soup 18:12:12 yes 18:12:17 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:12:31 most of the air elementals i've seen are "draw some squiggly white lines and call it a day" 18:12:45 -!- Stendarr has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:47 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:03 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:13:06 what's the current tile 18:13:13 see above 18:13:13 a very fine tile 18:13:28 -!- Guest30580 has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:14:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:14:41 looks like the michelin man 18:16:03 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:29 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:17:33 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:35 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:19:14 just don't have a tile. 18:19:18 air is invisible. everyone knows that. 18:22:35 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:03 air elemental (15E) | Spd: 25 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 15 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 223 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 18:24:03 %??air elemental 18:24:07 E 18:25:43 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:55 Maybe show a fish-eye esque distortion of the tile underneath the air elmental? Don't know how hard that would be. 18:26:33 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:26:45 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:28:04 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/m/avantgardemental.png 18:28:14 i should probably just draw something of an indefinite shape on a black canvas instead 18:29:32 -!- MiraclePrism has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:24 -!- Redz has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:57 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:07 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/air_elemental.png was what i made :C 18:36:13 i dislike it 18:37:03 THE WINGS OF AIR 18:37:16 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/m/avantgardemental2.png 18:37:22 mm these will make for a good Elemental Force icon btw :) 18:38:56 the first one was https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/fire_elemental2.png 18:39:47 @??air elemental 18:39:48 air elemental (15E) | Spd: 25 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-47 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 15 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 223 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 18:40:13 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/m/avantgardemental3.png 18:40:17 did anyone mention elemental force 18:41:32 Hmm, wait would be a good replace for phoenixes in holy pan? 18:41:41 s/wait/what 18:41:45 silver stars 18:41:46 Basil: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:41:52 Basil: Heh/ 18:42:00 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 18:42:02 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:28 you know, it's not a problem if you remove holy pan 18:42:32 and then, the rest of pan 18:42:40 phoenix is almost as hard to spell as neqoxec 18:42:42 one thing at a time, of course :) 18:42:52 phoenix has the tiny advantage of being an actual word 18:42:55 hmm 18:43:01 What would a holy neqoxec do, I wonder 18:43:24 Basil: Cure mutations? 18:43:25 unmutate you 18:43:29 -!- Ketsa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:29 unknown monster: "neqoxed" 18:43:29 %??neqoxed 18:43:36 neqoxec (133) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 15 | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(48), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 183 | Sp: malmutate, brain feed, sum.minor demon | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:43:36 %??neqoxec 18:44:01 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-422-g6ff4af3: Replace Q cloud displacement with cloud immunity (Bloax, elliptic). 10(22 minutes ago, 8 files, 22+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ff4af3e90c7 18:44:01 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-423-g784fa16: Rejig Q cloud generation again. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=784fa169bb6d 18:44:02 Give it's allies the effect of !brilliance 18:44:06 (Dips on that idea for an Elf by the way) 18:44:17 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:20 deep elf annihilator (12e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 52-82 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1262 | Sp: b.lightning (3d20), crystal spear (3d34), blink, iron shot (3d28), poison arrow (3d22) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:44:20 %??deep elf annihilator 18:44:28 deep elf annihilator (12e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 86-119 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(184) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3043 | Sp: b.lightning (3d26), crystal spear (3d43), blink, iron shot (3d38), poison arrow (3d30) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:44:28 %??deep elf annihilator hd:23 18:44:40 Yes basically that. 18:44:43 Hahaha 18:45:15 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/m/elementalforce.png 18:45:44 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:32 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:48:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:49:02 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0a1/20140325030201]] 18:49:20 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:23 -!- predator117 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:28 wheals: I'm removing phoenixes, have any suggestions to replace them in holy pan? 18:50:54 holy sphinx (15H) | Spd: 11 | HD: 16 | HP: 63-109 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 25, 12, 12 | 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(64), 08holy | XP: 2263 | Sp: confuse, paralyse, minor healing (2d8), smiting (7-17), slow | Sz: Big | Int: high. 18:50:54 %??sphinx god:zin name:holy n_adj 18:51:16 wheal: Heh, I'm assuming that's not serious. 18:51:16 surely a good idea 18:51:33 not very, no 18:51:33 Well it already does override a few monster gods... 18:51:56 All it needs is a tile! 18:52:20 Oh, and probably having 5 of those in a confinded space is a bad idea. 18:52:28 -!- Orionstein has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:28 holy_tomb 18:53:16 holy revenant 18:53:35 With holy flames instead of ghostly fireball. 18:53:43 spewing forth spectral angels and daevas 18:53:45 Heals the deathless it summons. 18:53:48 maybe just replace with ophanim, ophanim are cool 18:54:12 wheals: I'd be fine with that, but it's in a cave leading up to a Pearl Dragon which is sort of the "boss" 18:54:28 pearl draconian, obviously 18:54:31 And there's 5 of them in a confinded space. 18:54:39 wheals: Heh. 18:54:44 unknown monster: "pearl draconian" 18:54:44 %??pearl draconian 18:54:49 So they don't exist. 18:54:54 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:55:05 phoenix (05b) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 93-129 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 1908(holy) | 08holy, fly | Res: 06magic(52), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | Vul: 12drown | XP: 1279 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:55:05 %??phoenix 18:55:07 shedu (16H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 93-129 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 1908(holy), 2308(holy) | 08holy, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(52), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1285 | Sp: heal other (2d6) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 18:55:07 %??shedu 18:55:08 (not that I expected them to) 18:55:20 i guess these are fairly similar 18:55:22 wheals: that was also my first thought and wow are those extreme similar. 18:55:23 Pearl draconians sound cool 18:55:37 Wow 18:55:41 MiraclePrism: Implement them, maybe they'll get in. 18:55:42 phoenix have a lot of hp 18:56:01 Basil: And remember, their gimmick is that if you leave their corpse too long they revive. 18:56:07 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/m/avantgardemental4.png 18:56:12 You can see why they are being removed. 18:56:20 hmm 18:56:31 Bloax: is that a new tmons tile 18:56:51 Oh, no. 18:57:01 What is the pearl of apis? 18:57:03 Just some air without a definite shape. 18:58:03 Mennas (11A) | Spd: 15 | HD: 19 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 15/28 | Dam: 30, 20 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(202), 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 4552 | Sp: confuse, silence, minor healing (2d9) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:58:03 %??mennas 18:58:10 dang, you love your visually dense tiles 18:58:25 I really don't know how readable that'd be in game. it's borderline unreadable even on its own 18:58:34 I mean it's cool but it's so dense (ironically?) 18:58:49 s/pearl/plurl/ 18:58:50 the entire motive is supposed to be without a definite shape 18:59:04 the whole purpose of it is to not be read 18:59:22 apises, i suppose 18:59:27 apes, maybe 18:59:31 apes 18:59:34 ??apis 18:59:34 apis[1/1]: It's basically a Life Yak. Elyvilon will give you weakness if you kill it. 18:59:38 mmm. 19:00:15 ?/delightf 19:00:16 Matching entries (2): hippogriff[1]: Delightfully pluralized by the game as "hippogrives" prior to 0.6; no longer, alas. :( | orc_priest[1]: Generally the nastiest of the orc family in the early game, and a delightful green colour. Can {smite} with Beogh's power, and also melees. Regularly comes in a pack of normal orcs, generally with a orc wizard, and maybe even a orc warrior. 19:00:38 There is a canonical form if you delve the depths of the monster name code. 19:00:50 ..or just force two of thos to come into view in game. 19:01:10 ?/Maurice come 19:01:11 Matching entries (1): mauricescumming[3]: 3 Maurice comes into view. 19:01:21 ?/3 Boris 19:01:22 No matches. 19:01:37 1learn add rakshasa 19:02:20 wheals: I still don't think unique duplication was a bug :) 19:02:44 I should change that bit of code so are bugs can be gramically correct. 19:06:07 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:06:49 How noticeable are cherubs in holy pan? 19:08:42 Hah 2 apis! 19:08:54 !learn add apis[2] The plural is just "apis" 19:08:55 apis[2/2]: The plural is just "apis" 19:09:02 cherub (12A) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 62-93 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 15, 8 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(96), 05fire, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 743 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:09:02 %??cherub 19:09:13 No more than apis. 19:09:59 Hmm, RROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 716: Exit transit_pandemonium[59] didn't get generated. 19:10:06 s/RROR/ERROR/ 19:10:40 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:03 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:13 On start-up, any ideas? 19:12:48 -!- inojin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:10 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/AirElemental.png 19:13:37 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:14:11 -!- rubinko_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:38 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.15-a0-463-gd7f17ab: Remove an unused function 10(52 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 61-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d7f17abd578f 19:14:40 -!- ldf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:42 There's probably a warning for that. 19:16:28 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:37 there is, i just missed it 19:18:16 MavinPA: Yeah, on macs it warns on every single file so. 19:19:43 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:20:22 there's no way to tell what's wrong. 19:21:41 something like that happens in cygwin too yeah 19:22:14 and i've been too lazy to really look into why 19:23:21 Well I haven's solve my problem either :D 19:24:50 03elliptic02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-424-ga36f9a1: Clean up a div_rand_round in Qazlal cloud placement. 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a36f9a18607a 19:24:50 03elliptic02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-425-gbdd439a: More Qazlal storm tweaks. 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bdd439aabede 19:24:50 03elliptic02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-426-g214b7f2: Add a missing period. 10(67 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=214b7f2d80dc 19:25:07 MarinvPa: Heh, the latest 3 commits in Trunk start with "Remove" 19:25:11 ??devteam[2 19:25:12 devteam[2/14]: (old devteam entries are at devteam_old) 19:25:15 ??devtam[4 19:25:16 devtam ~ devteam[4/14]: sweet, the most recent three commits start with "Remove" today has been a good day 19:26:02 r??devteam 19:26:02 devteam[13/14]: all deaths are good 19:26:08 devteam hard at work 19:26:16 only one of the three commits is a real removal though :P 19:26:43 ??devteam[elliptic] 19:26:44 devteam[9/14]: <+elliptic> the first thing new players should do when they encounter sigmund is get confused by him and die 19:28:39 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:28:57 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-426-g214b7f2 19:29:22 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:29:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:29:44 -!- PleasingFungus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:08 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:30:09 -!- PleasingFungus_ is now known as PleasingFungus 19:30:45 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:54 -!- FVG has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:32:42 -!- home has quit [Changing host] 19:32:52 Hmm, the crash is in Trunk too. 19:33:40 Is there a way that messing up a vault can result in legitamate synthax but crash the game on start-up (not while generating it) 19:33:42 Grunt: Stormgod giving plain rElec or 3 AC is kinda weak. 19:33:53 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:34:32 -!- bones___ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:39 -!- PleasingFungus_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:34:43 if it's crashing it, how is it legitimate 19:34:51 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:13 wheals: Well ASSERT(1==0) will pharse but it will still cause a crash. 19:35:17 -!- edlothiol has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:37 if anything i'd raise the AC+5 bonus and not lower it 19:36:16 and relec could come with an upgrade to the passive rmsl back to the previous dmsl 19:37:01 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37:02 <|amethyst> reaverb: what kind of vault is this? mini, encompass, ... ? 19:37:11 |amethyst: holy pan 19:37:16 because relec is a binary resistance that he'll already protect you from should you meet a threat that uses it 19:37:26 Wait, one sec. 19:37:27 <|amethyst> reaverb: did you remove the NSUBST: . = > / . ? 19:37:38 ERROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 716: Exit transit_pandemonium[59] didn't get generated 19:37:57 |amethyst: I replace phoenixes (8) with Apis (A) 19:38:22 It worked fine when I was walkiing around, it does that when I try to load the save. 19:38:25 Even in Trunk. 19:38:32 /master 19:38:39 -!- Arrhythmia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:38:59 apis, weren't those also on the chopping block at one point? 19:39:17 gammafunk: I'll deal with that once phoenixes are gone :) 19:39:29 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:32 Hmm, i can reproduce it consistanly. 19:39:43 Only on start up. 19:39:48 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:59 Wait, That save was on trunk. So the problem is with &L *holy_pan 19:40:09 the last one I just tested. 19:40:17 <|amethyst> oh 19:40:34 I think it might be wise to considerjust cutting holy pan if both apis and pheonixes are going, with no replacements; aren't the pair thingies also slatedto be removed? 19:40:34 <|amethyst> don't use &L for encompass vaults 19:40:49 |amethyst: It doesn't work? 19:40:52 Hmm. 19:40:53 yeah, &L mostly to place float vaults 19:41:00 reaverb: it's &P or & ctrl-P 19:41:02 forget which 19:41:03 shedu probably won't be missed to badly 19:41:07 too 19:41:10 either 19:41:10 <|amethyst> reaverb: it places the vault on top of the current level 19:41:12 that's what you want for placing non-floating vaults 19:41:21 <|amethyst> reaverb: meaning it's going to overwrite the stairs that are already there 19:41:35 wheals: yeah, shedu are what I was thinkingof 19:41:40 |amethyst: Which causes an ASSERT(), hmm. 19:41:48 <|amethyst> reaverb: &P builds the level around the vault, like what normally happens with encompass vaults 19:41:58 |amethyst: Ok, good to know. 19:42:10 reaverb: yeah, you can also get weird crashes if you do like & _ and place an altar on the only branch exit 19:42:27 neil (L1 HuFi) ERROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 716: Exit transit_pandemonium[59] didn't get generated. (Pan) 19:42:32 <|amethyst> yeah, I can reproduce with the original holy pan 19:42:42 <|amethyst> using &L 19:42:52 neil (L1 HuFi) ERROR in 'dbg-scan.cc' at line 716: Exit transit_pandemonium[59] didn't get generated. (Pan) 19:43:08 Ok, that's resolved. 19:43:12 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:44:38 I don't know if anyone is planning to rework the holy enemies, but they're losing ranks fast... 19:44:52 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:44:57 gammafunk: Angels are fine, and so a devas. 19:45:01 a/s/are 19:45:11 Pearl dragons too, and ophans. 19:45:12 right, but for holy pan that'd be a pretty boring enemy set 19:45:17 <|amethyst> why are we removing phoenices? 19:45:18 We're just removing the silly ones. 19:45:43 |amethyst: They are so annoying they only spawn in like 6 vaults. 19:45:46 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night!] 19:45:48 phoenices are just mostly annoying because of the reviving bit; not particularly effective enemies even against undead 19:46:00 Becuase they've been removed from everywhere else, even holy zigs. 19:46:55 I think if apis + shedu + phoenices are all just cut, we'd have angels, daevas, and cherubs as the only holy pan foot soldiers 19:47:26 cherubs are not particularly interesting enemies 19:47:34 cutting holy pan is of course an option 19:47:42 yeah, tbh I'd lean towards that 19:48:09 Maybe have it be a battleground. 19:48:11 it doesn't function well even with the current enemy set; it's a slog that's basically free xp and only posses a challenge to the undead 19:48:21 So have like the Kiku and the forces of evil on one side and the holies on the other. 19:48:52 yeah but that would take some serious work to make into a coherent thing 19:48:54 <|amethyst> except they don't actually fight 19:49:22 |amethyst: Stalemate/ceasefire? :D 19:49:44 it might be better to just cull all the boring holy enemies, leave the good ones, and cut holy pan; someone can always come back and design some new content later 19:50:09 !bug 8495 19:50:09 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8495 19:50:20 Is this just clustering illusion on Brannock's part? 19:51:09 gmmafunk: Yes, things can always be revisted 19:51:54 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:00 I don't think it is clustering illusion, those door locations are really bizarre and I certainly don't remember seeing those in past versions 19:52:05 gammafunk: So you're going to look at the player clinging patch tomorrow, correct? 19:52:12 <|amethyst> reaverb: It might just be newish layouts? 19:52:16 elliptic: Ok, I'll leave it open. 19:52:20 if tomorrow is wednesday, yes 19:52:33 !time 19:52:34 Time: May 07, 2014, 12:52:34 AM, UTC. 19:52:40 that's no help Sequell 19:52:44 gammafunk: Oh, sorry, forgot we're international. 19:52:46 I have no idea how recent that behavior is but it doesn't look normal or desirable to me 19:53:11 yeah, I've noticed these weird closets, but I can't say that they're more common only recently; the behaviour I've seen has been in 0.14 19:54:10 reaverb: you could remove cherubs, phoenices, and shedu in one fell swoop, and disable holy pan! 19:54:24 think of the removals 19:54:34 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:39 gammafunk: Weren't you the one to say "one step at a time?" :D 19:55:23 In all seriousness, I'm concerned more about changing game mechanics without the necessary adjustments, rather than relatively obscure content like vaults and vault-specific monsters 19:55:44 but obviously you're the one doing the removal, so feel free to ignore me :) 19:57:14 -!- Ultragnash has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:57:51 <|amethyst> I'm trying to find which floor that screenshot is from 19:57:58 gammafunk: Hmm. 19:58:00 <|amethyst> ah, D:3 19:58:44 <|amethyst> gup_sewer_entry_spiral 19:58:57 which screenshot? 19:59:08 <|amethyst> The first one, nM1VAK1.png 19:59:08 in the bug report 19:59:17 oh, the first one, right 19:59:26 <|amethyst> the ones from lair can be explained by ruination 19:59:39 I'm not concerned about the door facing the vault there 20:00:03 but the upper right door in that screenshot is weird 20:00:15 <|amethyst> right, the one diagonal from the wall 20:00:18 <|amethyst> layout_roguey 20:00:21 and there are worse examples in the other screenshots 20:00:49 like in the second screenshot, there are two doors that are one square from where you would expect them to be 20:01:07 <|amethyst> hm, where's that from 20:01:10 inside the room rather than in the doorway 20:04:42 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:18 !source files.cc:1465 20:07:19 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/files.cc;hb=HEAD#l1465 20:07:39 where on earth does this happen? 20:07:57 that is a xom effect 20:09:02 -!- us17 has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:10:22 neat 20:10:37 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:44 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:10:47 That could be a future potion drawback :D 20:11:09 Hmm, it could make a good Okawaru wrath effect. "You shall not flee the level!" 20:12:06 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:12:46 ...hm, one suggestion / one commit 20:12:52 Good ratio. 20:13:24 Grunt: for who? 20:13:29 reaverb: you'll see in a moment! 20:13:36 Grunt: Hmm. 20:13:56 Is there any way to undelete save files? I need to recomplie Trunk if I can't do this. 20:14:14 I... don't believe so? 20:14:43 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:08 PleasingFungus: it's also a card (but the card doesn't spawn anywhere, it's just for testing the xom effect) 20:15:12 <|amethyst> wheals: in 41b37af6 did you intend to revert the change? You took the original instead of the new text 20:15:52 stairs card should be in punishment deck imo 20:15:55 yeah somehow when I was reading that code I missed the DUR_REPEL_STAIRS and was very confused 20:16:05 I was trying to refactor load_level() 20:16:10 but I think it might be a lost cause 20:16:12 |amethyst: i took out the old text, the one with you.can_smell() is new 20:16:13 it's beyond me, at any rate 20:16:30 or am i misunderstanding the question 20:16:41 PleasingFungus: If you have any partial progress commits post it online and I'll see what can be recovered. 20:16:45 s/online/on mantis/ 20:16:54 Even changing a few ifs is progress. 20:16:55 <|amethyst> wheals: oh, I misread the commit that added the junk 20:16:56 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:10 <|amethyst> wheals: it was an update from head 20:17:11 -!- Yllodra has quit [] 20:17:20 I pulled out a few functions. I'll toss them up in a sec. 20:17:20 <|amethyst> s/head/master/ 20:17:34 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-427-g0bf0f5e: More changes to Gozag shop placement (dpeg, elliptic). 10(76 minutes ago, 1 file, 102+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0bf0f5e7bf0a 20:17:34 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-428-g0471c33: Replace Gozag's gold lust with gold distraction (dpeg). 10(54 minutes ago, 8 files, 26+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0471c33bc947 20:17:34 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-429-gc819cfd: Force a selection for Gozag abilities (dpeg, elliptic). 10(15 minutes ago, 1 file, 195+ 137-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c819cfd7f543 20:18:30 Grunt: Why is that TAG_MAJOR_VERSION == 34 if gods is ==35? 20:18:31 elliptic: I'm going to draw your attention to uncancel.cc and uncancel.h for the last of those in case I can't figure out what to do :b 20:18:33 or am I wrong? 20:18:34 reaverb: oops 20:18:44 reaverb: I'm working in two branches here :( 20:19:04 Grunt: Yes it's horrifying, but do those commits compile? 20:19:12 not to be rude. 20:19:13 uncancel.cc is something I don't know anything about but I can take a look sometime if necessary, sure :P 20:19:30 * gammafunk uncancels Grunt 20:19:35 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:45 Grunt: I'd hate to have CSZO auto download and have the experimental branch break :D 20:19:54 <|amethyst> reaverb: I don't see why not, but they'd have broken save compat in the branch 20:20:02 <|amethyst> CSZO doesn't auto-update experimental branches 20:20:22 <|amethyst> reaverb: that removed all the references to STATUS_GOLDEN that weren't in #if 20:20:42 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-430-g7291915: Fix some TAG hiccups (reaverb). 10(33 seconds ago, 4 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=729191507a6f 20:20:44 |amethhyst: Well since TAG_MAJOR_VERSION wasn't bumped, won't those saves be corrupted? 20:20:52 |amethyst: Oh, it has be manually done. 20:20:56 I understand now. 20:21:11 I'm 99% sure this is completely harmless, but it's already fixed anyway :) 20:21:12 reaverb: http://sprunge.us/QcTG 20:21:31 I did some testing, but it probably wants more testing before actually being applied 20:21:39 <|amethyst> Grunt: it would take old saves with "golden" status and give you bribe status instead 20:21:44 * Grunt bribes |amethyst. 20:21:47 and I'm not 100% sure it's an actual improvement. might be 20:21:48 <|amethyst> Grunt: and shift your qalzal resistances 20:21:52 <|amethyst> s/lz/zl/ 20:21:58 |amethyst: these are just for status lights :) 20:22:19 I have several branches, each with a different feature, and I want to put them into a single branch to test how they work together. I also want to retain the full log for each feature branch, so I don't want to squash them before merging/rebasing. Ideally I would do a rebase/squash from each feature to the target branch, so if I had 3 feature branches, I would end up with a new branch with 3... 20:22:21 ...squashed commits (and my feature branches unaffected). 20:22:31 PleasingFungus: Thanks, I'll look at that later. 20:22:33 is this a reasonable approach? or am I totally missing the point of good git flow? 20:22:48 <|amethyst> oh, so just the morgue entries then? 20:23:08 <|amethyst> err, s/morgue/scorefile/ 20:23:29 johnstein: do you need to squash them when putting them into the target branch, if you're just testing? 20:23:38 I'd think you'd only need to squash before preparing a patch 20:23:55 more like, I have 3 features I want to play with. I may want to revert 1 of them and try something else 20:24:09 if there's only a single squashed commit in the final branch, that seems easier to revert 20:24:15 <|amethyst> johnstein: are they likely to have merge conflicts? 20:24:46 the .des files seem to get me with merge conflicts. but only because I was changing potion names 20:25:04 johnstein: couldn't you just merge a new octopus each time or something? 20:25:04 eh. it's not hard to checkout fresh branches and then re-merge into them 20:25:05 but besides that, there shouldn't be a lot of conflicts 20:25:11 what samb said, yes 20:25:27 each time you wanted to revert a branch, I mean 20:25:32 like pu in git itself 20:25:38 probably. I've never worked with feature branches before so it's kind of a new thought process 20:26:06 maybe clone git.git and read about it 20:26:18 in their docs 20:26:34 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:13 so basically, just blow away the old branch and re-create it and remerge the new set of features 20:27:20 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-430-g7291915 20:27:28 (if I want to always be using the same final branch name) 20:27:45 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-430-g7291915 20:27:49 <|amethyst> sounds like you might want rerere if you do that 20:27:50 also, I think I have gods recompiling automatically every night. maybe I should turn that off based on what |amethyst was saying above 20:28:03 johnstein: instead of blowing it away, it might make more sense to "git branch -f pu master" 20:28:24 -!- gallet has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:32 ooh. rerere sounds interesting 20:28:46 then you still have your reflog, just in case, at least until that gets pruned 20:30:05 I've never learned how the reflog is managed. It's not permanent? 20:30:25 gammafunk: Auto deletes every 2 weeks. 20:30:31 hrm 20:30:31 gammafunk: gc'd commits get dropped from it 20:30:32 It's a cron job or something. 20:30:41 but they won't be gc'd until 2 weeks later 20:30:42 samB, the pu branch idea thing sounds interesting 20:30:44 oh, well, it wouldn't be on my local system 20:30:45 and no, there's no cron job 20:30:46 Might want to checkout out #git 20:30:50 yeah 20:30:53 git checkout #git 20:30:55 <|amethyst> no cron job; git gc expires stuff 20:31:00 you could write one if you WANTED 20:31:02 <|amethyst> man git-reflog man get gc 20:31:02 is that an official git thing? or just a convention you can use for a git workflow? 20:31:04 <|amethyst> err 20:31:06 <|amethyst> git-gc 20:31:09 also the time window is configurable 20:31:23 |amethyst: you know man can add its own dash now, right? 20:31:39 maybe one day svn will have manpages 20:32:43 <|amethyst> SamB: it still won't correct 'get' -> 'git' :) 20:32:47 elliptic: if you're looking into uncancel, don't bother; I seem to have it figured out 20:32:47 <|amethyst> maybe the ubuntu version does 20:32:52 |amethyst: ah 20:33:00 I missed that spelling error ;-) 20:33:00 Grunt: no, I'm playing Q :P 20:33:08 elliptic: oh, good :b 20:34:16 I'm encouraging other people to play Q, at least 20:34:37 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:35:30 -!- home has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:06 (imo Q zigsprint) 20:36:08 (best Q) 20:36:51 I don't think I even know how to play not-sif anymore 20:38:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:17 gammafunk: Heh. 20:40:46 03Grunt02 07[gods] * 0.15-a0-431-g6ba3662: Use uncancels for Gozag abilities. 10(86 seconds ago, 5 files, 83+ 56-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ba36625643f 20:41:59 what was wrong with summon elementa 20:42:05 *elemental 20:42:44 <|amethyst> %git :/Summon 20:42:47 07MarvinPA02 * 0.15-a0-462-gf669498: Remove the Summon Elemental spell 10(5 hours ago, 19 files, 53+ 243-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f6694988d399 20:42:51 Lightli: What was right with the spell? 20:43:02 <|amethyst> it says right there in the commit log 20:43:09 ...derp 20:43:11 What's the easiest way to check compliation with the next TAG_MAJOR_VERSION? 20:43:17 I was gonig to say the fact it summoned elementals 20:43:32 Had that problem on the Tavern w/ the ID change too. 20:44:05 <|amethyst> reaverb: make EXTERNAL_FLAGS='-DTAG_MAJOR_VERSION=35' perhaps? 20:44:21 <|amethyst> reaverb: also, I added a script to gods branch recently 20:44:40 |amethyst: A) I'll try that B) gods branch script? 20:44:42 <|amethyst> %git :/tag-major-upgrade 20:44:43 07|amethyst02 * 0.15-a0-397-g89673ff: New script util/tag-major-upgrade. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 110+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=89673ffc13e3 20:44:52 |amethyst: Hmm. 20:45:21 Since gods_34 might be the one to actually be pushed, might be good to cherry-pick that to Trunk. 20:45:31 wait 20:45:51 I thought the reason gods bumped save compat was because it ran out of altar enums 20:45:55 reaverb: I have it in gods_34. 20:45:56 how did that get circumvented 20:46:03 <|amethyst> enums can be shifted around at load time 20:46:05 Lightli: technical wizardry. 20:46:10 Lightli: save compact hackery. 20:46:13 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:14 It's just adding numbers. 20:46:19 k 20:46:29 Lightli: Do you know what an enum is? 20:46:59 Yes, I poked with the code a tiny bit in the preparation for April 1st 20:47:19 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.15-a0-431-g6ba3662 20:47:43 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 20:47:58 Experimental (gods) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.15-a0-431-g6ba3662 20:48:39 Random thought: If ctele is being considered for removal, what are the reasons to keep it? 20:48:43 (if any) 20:48:58 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:48:59 Lightli: The reason we can run out of numbers is that, for example, 1-20 make up altars and 20+ doors a such. 20:49:13 right 20:49:15 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:22 Lightli: We can write code to say "Ok, not enough space, move the doors and stuff up 5 or so to make room" 20:49:27 But it's extra work. 20:49:37 (Also could move altars somewhere else.) 20:49:47 Don't know which gods_34 does. 20:50:08 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 20:50:47 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:50:50 ...what are reasons to keep ctele anyways 20:50:59 I can't think of any outside of "it's always been there" 20:51:12 Lightli: Hence it's removal. 20:51:24 <|amethyst> what do you mean by 'cTele', because I've heard "remove cTele" used for several different things 20:51:34 i.e. remove controlled teleportation all together 20:51:49 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:51:59 <|amethyst> but keep blink? 20:52:01 |amethyst: I get around 30 error messages saying "too many initializers for ‘short int [37]’" if I try your external flag. 20:52:13 yeah, keep blink scrolls and cblink 20:52:28 So I suppose that the my code is fine since 35 breaks anyway! 20:52:42 <|amethyst> reaverb: where is one of those? 20:52:58 EXTERNAL_FLAGS='-DTAG_MAJOR_VERSION=35' 20:53:08 <|amethyst> no, I mean one of the errors 20:53:08 |amethyst: oh, artefact.cc:322 20:53:18 |amethyst: Grunt had to have fixed it on Gods. 20:53:47 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 20:55:13 <|amethyst> reaverb: did it regenerate art-data.txt ? 20:55:16 Hmm, I think I might just push this, the TAG_MAJOR_VERSION stuff is really similar to and old TAG_MAJOR_VERSION encased bit. 20:55:50 <|amethyst> err, regenerate art-data.h from art-data.txt 20:56:13 |amethyst: Well I rm art-data.txt to test that.. 20:57:04 How do you checkout a file again. 20:57:07 ? 20:57:50 <|amethyst> git checkout master file 20:57:59 <|amethyst> s/master/your branch of choice/ 20:58:10 |amethyst: Yes, turns out my real problem was escaping the - in art-data 20:58:41 ? 20:58:54 -!- neunon has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:59:17 |amethyst: Yeah it was regenerated. 20:59:21 art-data.h 20:59:28 SamB: "?" ? 20:59:45 reaverb: you tried to escape it even though it was totally unnecessary? 21:00:02 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:00:05 SamB: No, I needed to escape it in order to work? 21:00:15 and it didn't work when I didn't escape. 21:00:20 what the heck kind of shell ... 21:01:19 or are you talking about --, in which case that would be to disambiguate ref-vs-file 21:01:55 -!- neunon has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:58 SamB: Yes with —, without it works. 21:02:17 Guess I just forgot to try it without that, looked through my history and was surprised I don't see that. 21:02:34 <|amethyst> er 21:02:43 |amethyst: er waht? 21:02:46 <|amethyst> you just typed — not - or -- 21:02:49 s/waht/what/ 21:03:03 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:07 <|amethyst> if you were trying to pass that to git it would be confused 21:03:21 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 21:03:23 I don't want to go into my terrible attempts to use git, I got it working. 21:03:39 I can't tell the difference between those characters :-( 21:04:19 <|amethyst> the first was U+2014 EM DASH 21:04:34 <|amethyst> the second was ASCII hypen, and the third two ASCII hyphens 21:04:34 I meant visually; I guessed it as probably that 21:05:29 |amethyst: My IRC client automatically turns two hypens into a dash. 21:05:31 ???? 21:05:31 I don't have a page labeled ?? in my learndb. 21:05:40 <|amethyst> ah 21:05:42 reaverb: that's evil 21:05:43 -- 21:05:45 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:45 — 21:05:46 turn it off 21:05:49 If you add a space. 21:05:54 <|amethyst> reaverb: well, at least it wasn't your shell doing that :) 21:06:05 |amethyst: Yes. 21:06:16 <|amethyst> the annoying thing to me is that it is turning two hyphens into an *em* dash 21:06:21 <|amethyst> do they not know LaTeX? 21:06:21 -!- Brannock_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:06:30 |amethyst: ah, you want an en dash? 21:06:33 <|amethyst> :) 21:06:38 It's only if you add a space after, so I guess it's semi context sensitive? 21:06:39 <|amethyst> not that I can tell the difference in my font 21:06:48 In any case, I guess I can push now? 21:06:57 <|amethyst> — em dash – en dash - hyphen 21:07:12 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:07:21 Hm. So if I'm reading the code correctly, there's only one bones file allowed for a level at a time - if someone died on a level that already has a bones file, they never leave a ghost. 21:07:23 This doesn't seem like ideal behavior. 21:07:33 That tagged removal is just like the removal of map_door_seal_marker. 21:07:43 PleasingFungus: That's obviously false, look at servers. 21:08:03 They have much more than 40 or so Bones going at one time. 21:08:06 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if they die on a level that already has a bones file, it replaces the bones fine 21:08:09 <|amethyst> file 21:08:14 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:42 Do servers leave ghosts through a mechanism other than save_ghost()? 21:09:02 !source files.cc:2192 21:09:03 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/files.cc;hb=HEAD#l2192 21:09:29 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:09:37 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: note that save_ghost can save more than one ghost 21:09:40 In any case I'm going to push phoenix removal, if somebody objects now's the time. 21:09:52 |amethyst: yes, I know. 21:10:08 should be renamed maybe_save_maybe_more_than_one_ghost_s 21:10:12 for clarity 21:10:18 save_some_ghosts_sometimes 21:10:32 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: oh, I see what you're saying 21:10:44 It does mean if someone dies on a level that already has a bones file (because ghosts didn't spawn there - only a 1/3 chance - or because someone else died on that level after it was generated) 21:10:49 the ghost gets eaten. 21:10:51 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: if someone else dies on that level between me entering the level and me dying there 21:11:26 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-464-gdaa30c6: Fix some instances of abilities failing when not useful (#8386). 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 72+ 29-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=daa30c611edf 21:11:48 Am I aloud/would it make sense to update the changelog without going through every commit up to that poing? 21:11:52 s/poing/point 21:12:03 We keep saying that, but it almost never happens :) 21:12:34 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:38 <|amethyst> I wouldn't update the commit at top but otherwise I see no problem 21:13:56 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 21:14:02 PleasingFungus: huh, so if you don't hit the 1/3 chance to generate the existing ghost(s) and then die then you don't create a ghost? 21:14:17 Yes, I believe so. 21:14:31 that is something I didn't know 21:14:42 I wonder if BONES_DIAGNOSTICS is enabled in production. 21:14:49 It'd be interesting to see how often that's triggered... 21:14:55 I guess that's an mprf, so it can't be. 21:15:51 <|amethyst> wizmode 21:16:00 <|amethyst> #ifdef WIZARD do_diagnostics = !creating_level; 21:16:00 <|amethyst> #endif 21:16:15 <|amethyst> err, that ate a newline 21:16:16 Yeah, I was briefly hoping that it was something that you could grep server logs for. 21:16:24 but, no. 21:16:39 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 21:16:56 0.15 has now removed 7 monsters without adding a single one! 21:17:13 Perfect ratio. Keep it up! 21:17:16 players can only make saves via console, correct? 21:17:31 <|amethyst> save backups? yes 21:17:33 <|amethyst> saves? no 21:17:33 gammafunk: Yes, IIRC 21:17:43 yeah sorry 21:17:51 1learn add bad_ideas make a clua repl available outside of wizmode 21:17:53 obviuosly I don't mean can they only save in console 21:17:58 <|amethyst> nrook: it is 21:18:01 oh really! 21:18:03 had no idea 21:18:20 <|amethyst> bindkey = [~] CMD_LUA_CONSOLE 21:18:25 <|amethyst> it's not bound by default 21:18:25 Oh quickly, is this correct: 21:18:26 -MONS: spriggan druid, spriggan rider, sphinx / phoenix / hell beast 21:18:26 +MONS: spriggan druid, spriggan rider, sphinx / hell beast 21:18:44 that will simplify things for the crawl bot I'm never going to get around to writing 21:18:55 nrook: That's the point of clua. It's the stuff you can trust players with. 21:19:04 supposedly 21:19:12 <|amethyst> well, there are bugs 21:19:13 <|amethyst> but 21:19:17 you can trust bots with it 21:19:17 i hear you can make a crash pretty reliably with it 21:19:21 nrook: Most bots are just in rc files. 21:19:21 <|amethyst> anything you could do from the repl you could do from your rcfile 21:19:22 reaverb: I know clua is supposed to be safe, I just figured the repl would be considered debug-only 21:19:32 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:33 not sure about those players but qw is trustworthy! 21:19:41 dirty players 21:19:43 <|amethyst> so not having clua console just makes it more tedious to exploit 21:19:48 <|amethyst> and you know how we hate tedium! 21:19:54 elliptic: Didn't kilobyte use qw specifically to try to find crashes :D 21:20:04 yeah I figured it wouldn't be accessible for usability/effort reasons, not for security ones 21:20:11 but it's cool that it is! 21:20:13 In any case, that vault synthax is correct, yes? 21:20:46 <|amethyst> nrook: yeah, I originally left it wizmode-only 21:20:49 reaverb: go count the number of commits attributed to qw :P 21:20:59 reaverb: trying to find crashes is a legitimate use case 21:21:04 <|amethyst> then kilobyte pointed out that it makes debugging rcfile stuff a lot easier 21:21:11 <|amethyst> among many other things 21:21:39 %git :/(qw) 21:21:39 07elliptic02 * 0.14.0-24-gfb45beb: Fix HP/MP being computed incorrectly while training skills (qw). 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 21+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fb45beb67856 21:22:35 <|amethyst> git log --grep '\(qw\)' --pretty=oneline | wc -l 21:22:36 <|amethyst> 13 21:22:40 <3 21:22:40 So I'm going to assume that vault synthax is correct and push phoneix removal. 21:22:47 %git HEAD^{/(xw)} 21:22:47 07|amethyst02 * 0.14-a0-2086-g56eb5f9: Don't list insects as "mindless" in xw (thedefinite) 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 11+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=56eb5f973414 21:22:51 <|amethyst> we'll have to give qw commit rights at some point 21:22:54 %git HEAD^{/\(xw\)} 21:22:55 07MarvinPA02 * 0.14-a0-1061-g2968064: Fix enchantments going through bushes (xw) 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2968064d2030 21:22:59 <3 21:23:08 <|amethyst> xw has 14 21:23:27 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:32 makes sense since xw is the senior bot 21:23:46 <|amethyst> catching up fast 21:23:48 -!- Red_Bucket has joined ##crawl-dev 21:23:51 huh 21:23:56 i was going to report that 21:24:03 * reaverb wishes somebody would just confirm to him the vault synthax is correct so he doesn't have to worry about breaking something. 21:24:06 (the fact that enchantments don't go through bushes) 21:24:11 i guess it's intended?? 21:24:19 reaverb: if nobody has confirmed.... no one knows 21:24:32 nrook: It's looks trivial to me: 21:24:33 -MONS:    spriggan druid, spriggan rider, sphinx / phoenix / hell beast 21:24:33 +MONS:    spriggan druid, spriggan rider, sphinx / hell beast 21:24:42 reaverb: yup, that's right 21:24:43 <|amethyst> reaverb: you want the chance for a phoenix to be evenly split between the hell beast and sphinx that are already alternatives? 21:24:54 |amethyst: Yes. 21:24:55 |amethyst: narcissisiii has a swamp with what looks like a disconnected swamp:5 rune vault 21:24:59 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:25:00 alternatively could add another monster in the / x / there 21:25:00 he's in the gods branch 21:25:01 gammafunk: what 21:25:03 gammafunk: oh 21:25:03 wheals: Thank you. 21:25:12 gammafunk: (I have that fixed on trunk) 21:25:16 ah 21:25:19 ok, hrm 21:25:26 well it'd be nice if 21:25:29 he could find that vault 21:25:32 -!- bones__ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:35 wheals: I could! However, that is work. If anybody else wants to do that I'm fine. 21:25:36 I guess he could wait tilll he gets some fire wands 21:25:40 or lightning 21:25:55 doesn't disint also remove trees? 21:25:56 |amethyst: can I get to his save easilly? 21:25:58 or is that doors only 21:26:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: is he playing now? 21:26:07 yes 21:26:10 or he can be 21:26:16 (or not be) 21:26:17 -!- kekekela has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:17 <|amethyst> gammafunk: have him save 21:26:20 ok 21:26:24 <|amethyst> gammafunk: then I'll copy it, then he can start up again 21:27:05 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:26 <|amethyst> oka 21:27:45 <|amethyst> http://dobrazupa.org/saves/NarcissusIII.cs 21:27:48 |amethyst: he should be logged out 21:27:50 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:27:54 <|amethyst> oh 21:27:56 <|amethyst> let me do that again 21:28:02 <|amethyst> okay now 21:28:06 <|amethyst> he can reconnect 21:28:19 03reaverb02 07* 0.15-a0-465-gdf45d3f: Remove phoenixes 10(3 hours ago, 15 files, 19+ 223-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=df45d3f71900 21:28:21 <|amethyst> and you can grab the save 21:28:22 Hmm, we're running out of obvious monsters to remove. 21:28:25 <|amethyst> are you going to practice your save-editing skills? 21:28:28 Besides all the remaining holy ones. 21:28:38 -!- reaverb has left ##crawl-dev 21:28:49 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:51 smote by god!@ 21:29:34 |amethyst: no, I'm just going to tell him where the rune is 21:29:42 <|amethyst> :P 21:29:43 or where he can start the fire 21:29:50 <|amethyst> I guess that's fair 21:30:04 how do you edit saves anyhow? 21:30:13 <|amethyst> crawl -edit-save 21:30:17 oh my 21:30:17 <|amethyst> well 21:30:23 <|amethyst> you use wizmode to do the editing 21:30:26 aha 21:30:29 makes sense 21:30:35 well I could do that as well 21:30:38 <|amethyst> the -edit-save to extract the level and stick it back into the non-wizmode save 21:30:39 when do we add the "sim city" mode 21:31:06 <|amethyst> shift-right click to erase a monster 21:31:07 so you take the original, clean it up in wizmode, save, and then run crawl -edit-save? 21:31:20 uh 21:31:22 <|amethyst> but if you leave a corner, the monster will still work properly 21:31:25 why not remove shedu too 21:31:37 Grunt: finally I'll get to play with the gods branch 21:31:38 <|amethyst> gammafunk: run it twice 21:31:47 gammafunk: you obviously have to copy it at some point ? 21:31:47 Lightli: Feel free to submit a patch. 21:31:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: once to extract the level chunk from the updated file, and once to insert it into the original 21:32:03 Lightli: Even if it's just removing them from vaults. 21:32:03 <|amethyst> gammafunk: and, yes, you need two copies :) 21:32:12 ok, I'll screw it up and then ask for help 21:32:25 <|amethyst> I end up with four or five copies total when I do it 21:32:32 -!- notipsum has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:32:48 <|amethyst> original, updated, fixed, and the copy of fixed in saves/ that I'm testing with 21:33:14 <|amethyst> Maybe I should write this up 21:33:31 <|amethyst> I learned it from kilobyte, and it's not exactly obvious 21:33:43 I just got another terrible weapon brand idea 21:34:31 Sonic: low extra damage, but it bypasses AC and even when swings miss, the "wake" of the blow will hit and do brand damage 21:34:40 yeah, a guide would be great 21:35:18 |amethyst: go for it! 21:35:37 Red_Bucket: In what way would the player treat that as differant than vorpal? 21:35:54 step 1) don your l337 hacking gloves 21:35:56 I guess there are some notable high-AC targets, but even that's a little spoilery. 21:36:05 there are also high ev targets 21:36:24 Red_Bucket: So spriggans basically. 21:36:39 Maybe also the God of Tar. 21:36:43 Well, yeah. 21:36:48 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh, another thing I remembered 21:36:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I'm always careful not to let time pass in wizmode 21:37:04 Hmm, I would have that replace Vorpal rather than in additional to Vorpal, but I guess it's not bad. 21:37:15 <|amethyst> gammafunk: moving with xm or XT instead of arrow keys, etc 21:37:20 ah, ok 21:37:27 -!- minmay has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:27 -!- minqmay has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:42 <|amethyst> probably nothing will completely break, but I haven't checked 21:38:02 <|amethyst> I imagine that could cause problems if markers trigger, for example 21:38:16 <|amethyst> or blood potion stuff 21:38:56 Would a sonic exec axe be much more appealing than a sonic quick blade? 21:39:04 <|amethyst> !learn edit nfm s/^/save-fixing guide, / 21:39:05 nfm[1/1]: save-fixing guide, TODO: CAO tutorial mode, finish inventory of server-side software, finish and send infrastructure team proposal to CRD, take list of stable and exp. branches from a file, script to deploy new version, inotify for new inprogress dirs too, Chei -> dobrazupa, autobuild glyphs+monster 21:39:08 <|amethyst> err 21:39:49 <|amethyst> !learn edit nfm s/^(.*) TODO:/TODO: \1/ 21:39:49 nfm[1/1]: TODO: 1 CAO tutorial mode, finish inventory of server-side software, finish and send infrastructure team proposal to CRD, take list of stable and exp. branches from a file, script to deploy new version, inotify for new inprogress dirs too, Chei -> dobrazupa, autobuild glyphs+monster 21:39:55 <|amethyst> bah 21:40:03 <|amethyst> !learn edit nfm s/1/save-fixing guide,/ 21:40:04 nfm[1/1]: TODO: save-fixing guide, CAO tutorial mode, finish inventory of server-side software, finish and send infrastructure team proposal to CRD, take list of stable and exp. branches from a file, script to deploy new version, inotify for new inprogress dirs too, Chei -> dobrazupa, autobuild glyphs+monster 21:40:30 where are bonefiles saved? I'm trying and failing to find the directory. 21:40:54 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: the saves directory 21:40:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:41:06 hm. now I just need to find that 21:41:12 |amethyst: there must be more to it than that? 21:41:15 <|amethyst> are you running from the source directory? 21:41:19 yep 21:41:21 PleasingFungus: saves/ or ~/.crawl/ somewhere 21:41:28 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: saves/ 21:41:45 |amethyst: What does "Chei -> dobrazupa" mean? 21:41:48 neither exists 21:41:49 odd 21:42:06 -!- razor_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:42:31 <|amethyst> reaverb: move Cheibriados from s-z.org to dobrazupa.org/cszo 21:42:33 hmm, how come crawl doesn't have a flag to dump paths? 21:42:50 |amethyst: Hmm, why are you doing that? 21:42:58 Sonic weapons would also presumably be loud. 21:43:01 Better server on dobrazupa? 21:43:06 Red_Bucket: indeed 21:43:10 would they work on wood things? 21:43:13 Red_Bucket: So it's like having the Noisty weapon property? 21:43:24 <|amethyst> reaverb: better server, newer gcc (in case we drop support for 4.1) 21:43:36 <|amethyst> reaverb: s-z.org I don't pay for 21:43:41 |amethyst: Hmm. 21:43:50 I know I have saves. 21:43:53 <|amethyst> reaverb: and it has lots of paying clients on it 21:43:53 How do you have a server without paying for it? 21:43:54 fr: 4.1 %?? 21:44:02 didn't even know we had support for it 21:44:03 |amethyst: Oh, you rent it out? 21:44:05 PleasingFungus: locate "*.cs" ? 21:44:28 reaverb: no he's a non-paying client I think 21:44:37 <|amethyst> reaverb: I occasionally help out the owner (a friend of mine since elementary school, and the best man at my wedding) 21:44:45 /Users//Library/Application Support/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup/saves/ 21:44:51 reasonable enough 21:44:52 or, okay, "buddy" 21:44:58 |amethyst: Ah, still odd you get the front page. 21:45:08 <|amethyst> reaverb: s-z.org isn't the front page 21:45:14 <|amethyst> reaverb: it's a virtual host 21:45:15 PleasingFungus: yeah, ~/.crawl/saves 21:45:16 welcome... to the domain name zone! 21:45:17 what did we tell you? 21:45:22 |amethyst: Ah, I get it. 21:45:23 <|amethyst> reaverb: wwbtc.com 21:45:33 same diff :) 21:45:34 So you still pay for the domain name. Hmm. 21:45:57 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:08 because obviously "Application Support/Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup" == ".crawl", it's plain as day 21:46:15 er 21:46:25 "Library/"+ 21:46:40 well, obviously 21:46:44 <|amethyst> reaverb: yeah, paid through 2016 (2022 for dobrazupa.org because I got it more recently) 21:46:55 |amethyst: Hmm. 21:47:09 PleasingFungus: hmm, I guess you'd have been less confused if you were on Windows 21:47:10 <|amethyst> I've had s-z.org for about 12 years; originally it was my home computer 21:47:11 and by then, everything will be all cloudy! 21:47:15 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 21:47:29 SamB: but then I'd have no stack traces! 21:47:29 <|amethyst> then the ISP started saying "blah blah blah can't run servers on these ports" 21:47:36 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 21:47:44 PleasingFungus: true 21:47:51 <|amethyst> "blah blah blah if you want to upgrade to business service" 21:47:57 |amethyst: ??? 21:48:00 That's really odd. 21:48:08 |amethyst: ports like :80 and, er, whatever https is on? 21:48:20 my ISP never bothered to mention such restrictions that I know of 21:48:21 ok, there we are, bones file. 21:48:22 <|amethyst> SamB: 25 and 53 too 21:48:23 Although I know nothing about networking so. 21:48:34 what's 53 for? 21:48:34 <|amethyst> SamB: 22 is fine though 21:48:37 <|amethyst> SamB: DNS 21:48:51 |amethyst: few ISPs are nasty enough to block 22, afaik 21:48:55 a naïve way to support multiple bones files per level is just to tack shit on the end. this runs the risk of race conditions, but the current code already does that 21:48:56 so who cares 21:49:06 what sort of race condition 21:49:07 <|amethyst> blocking 22 means they lose my business 21:49:10 -!- lobf has joined ##crawl-dev 21:49:22 nrook: in the current code or the hypothetical new code? 21:49:33 I think anyone who knows what that is would feel it was inhumane 21:49:42 this'd be a multiplayer issue with two different guys dying at essentially the same time on the same level 21:49:48 well I mean, "somebody doesn't get bones" is a lot less serious than "multithreaded access problem causes segfault" 21:50:04 it'd be "someone's bones get stomped on" 21:50:09 in both cases 21:50:11 afaik console crawl doesn't multithread at all, though? 21:50:11 <|amethyst> no 21:50:12 Monster mash: When used by the player, tries to fuse three enemies together into a chimera, which has their combined HP. When used by an enemy, tries to fuse three low HP allies together. 21:50:14 |amethyst: that's not to say I don't have sshd listening on an alternate port because of this one time when I couldn't get through on port 22 ... 21:50:18 <|amethyst> with tacking stuff onto the end it could be worse 21:50:22 (in addition to the usual 22) 21:50:23 <|amethyst> unless you do it all as one write 21:50:28 <|amethyst> which might not even be possible 21:50:52 yeah it's not a multithreading thing, it'd be a multi-process interaction (exciting!) 21:50:55 <|amethyst> you have to lock the file if you're going to do that 21:51:00 also you might be saved by the os enforcing file handler restrictions 21:51:02 yes 21:51:03 <|amethyst> in some way or another 21:51:03 that 21:51:09 |amethyst: or do the rename trick 21:51:29 then you have races but it could be safe anyway 21:51:49 you could also just do it the Right Way though 21:51:55 might be easier than worrying about locking 21:51:58 what is the Right Way 21:52:00 ? 21:52:01 indeed 21:52:04 I like doing things correctly 21:52:14 save one bones file per player ghost, tack a uuid on the end of the filename 21:52:25 that doesn't sound like a right way 21:52:32 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 21:52:37 <|amethyst> nrook: then you have to walk the whole directory to check for bones 21:52:44 <|amethyst> nrook: and that directory has everybody's saves 21:52:56 unless you want a directory per level? 21:53:02 <|amethyst> that would work 21:53:11 |amethyst: ok, I've edited the save and it looks alright, now I just need to upload it somewhere? 21:53:16 Hmm, there's a Basil on the Tavern. 21:53:17 I like that. back-compat wouldn't be too hard 21:53:22 the directory idea 21:53:27 And I don't think it's Sage. 21:53:44 does crawl currently have a uuid generation mechanism? 21:53:44 <|amethyst> gammafunk: can you get it to me somehow? 21:54:07 is filename-only ls slow enough to matter, even if it's getting tens of thousands of files? I suppose it might be 21:54:13 PleasingFungus: I bet the STL does 21:54:23 yeah I guess I could just email it to you 21:54:39 oh no, I searched c++ uuid and all the results include the word "boost" 21:54:41 not a good sign 21:54:41 <|amethyst> nrook: ls (or shell wildcard expansion) is even worse than traversing the directory, because it sorts 21:54:51 same 21:55:02 nrook: Why is that bad sign? 21:55:09 libuuid is probably fine? 21:55:14 <|amethyst> nrook: maybe it wouldn't be *that* bad, but I'd probably want to benchmark it 21:55:20 reaverb: we don't want to build-dep on libboost-of-the-month? 21:55:32 |amethyst: try ls -f 21:55:32 unknown monster: "pain brand[hd" 21:55:32 %??pain brand[hd 21:55:37 ??pain brand[hd 21:55:37 pain_brand[1/2]: Brand which inflicts 1d(necromancy skill) extra damage on necro out of necro+1 successful hits. Does not affect those with rN (demons, undead, unliving, shadow dragons, death drakes, holies). (For the record, a monster's necromancy skill is HD/2, HD if undead or demonic, 0 if mindless/animal). 21:55:40 SamB: " libuuid is part of the e2fsprogs package and is available from http://e2fsprogs.sourceforge.net/ " 21:55:42 are we already using this? 21:55:42 <|amethyst> SamB: right, right :) 21:55:50 PleasingFungus: hmm, maybe wrong lib 21:55:53 SamB: Hmm. 21:56:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:56:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 21:56:10 Okay, so I have a nitpick regarding monster pain brand. Shouldn't evil spellcasters have the same bonus as demons and undead? 21:56:14 hm. let me test 21:56:47 -!- lyrick has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:30 naïvely including fails, unsurprisingly. worth a shot 21:57:41 libossp-uuid-dev ? 21:57:58 oh oops 21:59:07 <|amethyst> adding a new dependency requires quite a bit of support 21:59:14 yeah, I'd prefer to avoid that if possible 21:59:18 even if it's The Right Way 21:59:20 (tm) 21:59:31 I guess it depends on exactly how Wrong the alternative is 21:59:44 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:50 Red_Bucket: Define "Evil" 21:59:56 The "evil" tage 21:59:59 *tag 22:00:04 reaverb: an age-old question! 22:00:07 necromancer (16p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 26-53 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(53) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 614 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), agony, animate dead, simulacrum / b.fire (3d18), agony, invisibility, animate dead | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:00:07 %??necromancer 22:00:09 libossp-uuid-dev only gets results for linux, which may or may not be a problem for windows devs. 22:00:10 Anything with necromancy spells gets that tag 22:00:11 <|amethyst> use mkstemp 22:00:15 -!- rchandra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:18 Red_Bucket: Oh, hmm. 22:00:24 Maybe I'll add that. 22:00:30 |amethyst: is that safe? 22:00:31 |amethyst: ooooo 22:00:36 and in MSVCRT? 22:00:38 The function thus prevents any possible race condition between testing whether the file exists and opening it for use. 22:00:40 yes please 22:00:44 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:47 <|amethyst> SamB: we use it already 22:00:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:53 oh nice 22:01:18 Red_Bucket: Where in the code is that? 22:01:30 in exactly one place, apparently. still, good enough for my purposes 22:01:39 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:51 one place not unix-specific? 22:02:02 <|amethyst> package.cc 22:02:09 that's good enough for sure 22:02:19 it... looks like that may be our own homebrew mkstemp 22:02:21 though 22:02:31 <|amethyst> on Windows, yes 22:02:36 ahh 22:02:37 I see 22:02:53 because MSVCRT's is too puny for us and/or totally missing, presumably 22:03:27 |amethyst: is your mailing list email an ok one to use? 22:03:45 <|amethyst> gammafunk: let me see if I can give you a better way than email 22:04:04 <|amethyst> gammafunk: do you have an ssh pubkey? 22:04:12 uh yeah 22:04:40 I don't know the code. There would be two monster holiness checks close together wherever it is. 22:05:25 Hmm, that's going to take a while to find. 22:05:31 |amethyst: http://sprunge.us/PiHF 22:06:32 It would actually have three checks. If undead, if demonic, and if int>=normal. 22:06:34 <|amethyst> gammafunk: gammafunk@dobrazupa.org 22:06:42 ok, thanks 22:06:45 ...what's this about? 22:06:59 <|amethyst> Grunt: giving gammafunk a place to drop a fixed save 22:07:18 <|amethyst> or were you asking about the mkstemp stuff? 22:07:23 The former. 22:07:56 trying to fix a limitation in the ghost save code 22:07:59 -!- Brannock is now known as Brannock_ 22:08:04 case SPWPN_PAIN: return terse ? "pain" : "pain"; 22:08:07 Heh. 22:08:18 reaverb: pretty terse 22:08:19 :) 22:08:38 What, is that some kind of spelling mistake? 22:08:44 ok, I can log in, hopefully giving sftp an identity file is easy 22:08:50 well an identity 22:09:01 grunt: specifically, it can't save ghosts if there's already a bones file for the level (which can happen very easily - for example, if the 2/3 chance that ghosts aren't loaded for a given level) 22:09:22 which seems like a waste of good player ghosts 22:10:00 Red_Bucket: It sort of makes sense because all the other weapon brand cases are like that. All the others have differant terse versions. 22:10:02 |amethyst: ok, NarcissusIII-fixed.cs uploaded to my home dir 22:10:48 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]] 22:11:56 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:12:22 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 22:13:12 <|amethyst> gammafunk: okay, in place 22:13:16 thanks 22:14:41 <|amethyst> hrm... you know, when a web site gives me a "stay logged in until I log out" option, I think the contract is supposed to be that they will then give me a "log out" option 22:14:50 Red_Bucket: I found the code, but the evil tag hits some surprising things. 22:14:51 <|amethyst> tierranet apparently does not believe in this 22:14:55 nope. you're there for life, baby 22:14:58 deep troll shaman (16T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 12 | HP: 34-62 | AC/EV: 6/10 | Dam: 27, 20, 20 | 10doors, priest, evil, sense invisible | Res: 06magic(48) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 876 | Sp: haste other, might other, 04esc:minor healing (2d6) | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 22:14:58 %??deep troll shaman 22:15:17 -!- bones___ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:15:25 Ugh, it's because it's a priest. 22:15:35 Red_Bucket: Of an unknown god. 22:15:37 Wait 22:15:41 gnoll shaman (16g) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 12-27 | AC/EV: 2/9 | Dam: 10 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 40 | Sp: corona, heal other (2d1), haste other, 04esc:minor healing (2d1) | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:15:41 %??gnoll shaman 22:15:41 might be a nice god :) 22:15:58 NAMLESS GOD 22:16:01 *NAMELESS 22:16:12 (this always reminds me of 78291's demonspawn Shadow Creatures bug) 22:16:20 <|amethyst> and of course, even if I wipe the cookies, putting the SID in the URL still takes me back to a logged-in page 22:16:34 that sounds like a really secure login scheme 22:16:41 |amethyst: yeah, save seems to work 22:17:15 -!- us17 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:17:17 <|amethyst> nrook: I mean, there's probably some URL I can hit to make the server forget my SID, but they don't seem to link to it 22:17:18 ...anyway, I think I'll give it a day or two for more feedback and then land gods_34 22:17:37 Lets rename holy damage to hate damage, make it work on priests, then remove all "evil" tags from priests that don't use necromancy. 22:17:47 <|amethyst> nrook: aha, I found it 22:18:08 victory! 22:18:14 -!- bones__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:36 Grunt: what was the shadow creatures bug? Did the summons count as evil? 22:18:36 <|amethyst> nice putting it in a hidden-by-CSS section so that ctrl-f didn't find it 22:18:37 !send nrook defeat 22:18:37 Sending defeat to nrook. 22:18:47 Well, you could get them as a TSOite. 22:18:54 oh huh, what is this you've sent to me 22:18:54 And their god would be reset. 22:18:56 this is the first time I've ever seen something like this 22:19:05 So you'd get them calling down the wrath of NO GOD or NAMELESS GOD or 22:19:13 -!- Moonsilence has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:19:29 At some point when I was working something I got the amusing " calls down the wrath of NO GOD on NONEXISTENT FOE." 22:19:42 lol 22:19:43 Oh, demonspawn as in the monsters 22:19:54 Grunt: narc just upheaveled the learnean hydra to death 22:20:01 gammafunk: and? 22:20:04 only took like 5-6 hits 22:20:07 ??upheavel 22:20:08 gammafunk: it's basically just a normal hydra outside of melee :b 22:20:08 I don't have a page labeled upheavel in my learndb. 22:20:12 ??upheaval 22:20:12 I don't have a page labeled upheaval in my learndb. 22:20:13 Should demons know Necromancy? 22:20:14 hm 22:20:23 doesn't it have more hp 22:20:28 and MR 22:20:29 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:20:33 unknown monster: "lernean hydra" 22:20:33 %??lernean hydra 22:20:37 Should even undead know Necromancy? I don't know biology. 22:20:39 the Lernaean hydra (08D) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 30 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | amphibious, cold-blooded, regen | Res: 06magic(120), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 5233 | Sz: Giant | Int: reptile. 22:20:39 %??lernaean hydra 22:20:58 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 22:21:02 and it's more accurate 22:21:22 <|amethyst> reaverb: should enemy demons get more damage than humans from pain brand? 22:21:30 Is there some kind of check for necromancy spells that causes a creature to be labeled as evil, or is the evil tag manually added to each one? 22:21:33 |amethyst: Yes. 22:21:33 well, what tier-ability is it again 22:21:37 !learn add upheaval {Qazlal}'s 2* ability; blasts a small (increasing with Invocations) area around a smite-targeted location with lava, ice, air (like Airstrike), or rubble (like LRD) damage. Lava can leave lava tiles; ice flash-freezes enemies; air leaves storm clouds; earth can destroy walls. 22:21:38 upheaval[2/2]: {Qazlal}'s 2* ability; blasts a small (increasing with Invocations) area around a smite-targeted location with lava, ice, air (like Airstrike), or rubble (like LRD) damage. Lava can leave lava tiles; ice flash-freezes enemies; air leaves storm clouds; earth can destroy walls. 22:21:42 oh 22:21:43 ??upheaval 22:21:43 qazlal[1/2]: The violent god of natural disasters. See: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11773 22:21:45 I would switch it to if the monster had a necromancy spell. 22:21:49 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:21:53 !learn move upheaval[2] upheaval[1] 22:21:54 upheaval[2] -> upheaval[1/2]: {Qazlal}'s 2* ability; blasts a small (increasing with Invocations) area around a smite-targeted location with lava, ice, air (like Airstrike), or rubble (like LRD) damage. Lava can leave lava tiles; ice flash-freezes enemies; air leaves storm clouds; earth can destroy walls. 22:21:58 !learn del upheaval[2] 22:21:59 Deleted upheaval[2/2]: see {qazlal} 22:22:01 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]] 22:22:20 well, it's perhaps a bit strong for a 2* ability 22:22:28 but I guess there's a lot of variability among gods there 22:22:28 Oh, so you can check for necromancy spells. I don't know why I didn't think of that in the first place. 22:22:40 <|amethyst> reaverb: that would reduce the damage from non-necromancy demons with pain brand 22:23:00 |amethyst: Checking for Necro spells? 22:23:02 <|amethyst> don't know how significant a nerf that would be 22:23:11 <|amethyst> reaverb: in monster::skill you mean? 22:23:12 17 invo 22:23:15 that does explain it 22:23:16 |amethyst: yes. 22:23:20 <|amethyst> reaverb: yes 22:23:30 <|amethyst> reaverb: AFAIK that's all monster necromancy skill is used for? 22:23:33 <|amethyst> reaverb: maybe the staff? 22:23:34 Yeah, it's like training Fedhas invo to 17 :b 22:23:40 (and oklob-farming everything) 22:24:00 Nature gods don't fuck around evidently. 22:24:28 |amethyst: So you're saying change it to just check for necro spells would be fine? 22:24:36 s/change/changing/ 22:24:38 What is Qazlal's wrath? Fedhas has elemental miscasts, so wouldn't there be an overlap with Qazlal? 22:24:51 <|amethyst> reaverb: that would reduce the damage from non-necromancy demons with pain brand 22:25:02 if you mean the attack flavour, can any demon without necro spells actually get that other than random pan lords? 22:25:13 minmay: We don't mean attack flavour. 22:25:15 <|amethyst> minmay: I mean the weapons 22:25:17 We mean the brand. 22:25:32 |amethyst: well surely it would reduce the damage from non-necromancy living monsters with pain brand, too 22:25:39 so why are demons a problem? 22:25:41 It means a reaper with a scythe of pain is not as scary. 22:25:44 <|amethyst> wait 22:25:51 <|amethyst> reaverb: what are you talking about exactly? 22:25:55 what is a not-non-necromancy demon 22:25:58 <|amethyst> reaverb: making it zero if they don't cast spells? 22:26:03 wheals: one with a necromancy spell 22:26:24 |amethyst: Making it hd/2 like it is corrently if a monster fails the holliness check. 22:26:35 <|amethyst> minmay: so, no, it wouldn't reduce the damage from living monsters 22:26:43 seems simpler to not discriminate based on whether they have a spell 22:26:49 * reaverb should of probably just commit a patch and let people complain/revert later. 22:27:12 wheals: Well just checking for demonic or undead holiness is kinda unpredictable. 22:27:14 |amethyst: okay then I'm not clear what the purpose is? just making pain do more damage on monsters with necromancy spells? 22:27:25 <|amethyst> minmay: ask reaverb 22:27:36 reaverb: okay then I'm not clear what the purpose is? just making pain do more damage on monsters with necromancy spells? 22:27:59 Can necromancer mons get pain weapons? 22:28:13 minmay: Yes, and also make it so demons/undead which do not have those spells do less damage. 22:28:14 most monsters that get weapons can get pain weapons 22:28:18 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:28:29 hell knight (05p) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 50-80 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(40), 05hellfire, 04fire+++ | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 793 | Sp: pain (d13), b.fire (3d18), 04esc:blink / pain (d13), throw flame (3d8), haste | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 22:28:29 %??hell knight 22:28:35 Hell knights would do more damage 22:28:42 -!- MgDark has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0/20131216183647]] 22:28:43 minmay: Mostly this was something which turned into a massive conversation for no reason. 22:28:43 Grunt: no balance at all 22:28:45 -!- tcsc has quit [Quit: bye!] 22:28:45 reaverb: okay...that seems like adding spoilery interactions for the sake of adding them 22:28:46 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: huh? 22:28:47 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:29:00 <|amethyst> oh, pain 22:29:05 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 22:29:06 reaverb: although I suppose if you get rid of the spoilery holiness interaction at the same time, it sort of evens out 22:29:24 minmay: What would your definition of a "non spoiler" way to do this be? 22:29:31 And yes it's the "even out" thing. 22:29:59 reaverb: one that doesn't require spoilers to know it exists 22:30:24 <|amethyst> minmay: increased HD doing extra damage is spoilery by that measure, isn't it? 22:30:29 -!- SomeoneAwful has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:45 |amethyst: yes 22:30:54 |amethyst: Well there are thos bizarre messages you get on danger. 22:31:07 Do we really lose anything by neutrering pain weapons on monsters that don't have necromancy spells? 22:31:08 |amethyst: but 1 + 1 does not equal 1, it equals 2 22:31:09 I do wish HD could be better experessed though. 22:31:45 Getting rid of the HD/2 thing altogether. 22:31:56 the problem is that hd isn't a thing that exists. it's not how big a monster is, or how tough it is, or how strong it is. 22:32:13 Red_Bucket: Choosing not to spend this conversation on something like corrosion would had more effect on this game than monster pain brand has ever. 22:32:16 it's a number that represents the number of dice that are rolled to generate its hit points. (except when they aren't rolled.) 22:32:45 This is really the 20 bit of the 80/20 rule, probably even more maginal than that. 22:33:09 PleasingFungus: It is that but that's no all. Think of it as monster level. 22:33:18 yeah it does a bunch of random shit 22:33:22 how do you express that to the player? 22:33:31 idk. 22:33:36 "Monster level: 10" 22:33:37 "This monsters is level 18" done. 22:33:39 haha 22:33:56 that doesn't seem very crawlish, any more than showing their hp would be 22:33:57 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:34:00 Is HD used better in other games? 22:34:15 Pleasingfungus: Yes, I'm sure we could change it to adjatives. 22:34:17 Like, does it function more like a monster level 22:34:30 anyway I don't see how HD "doesn't exist" any more than speed or hp or ac or ev or damage or resistances or flags or holiness exist 22:34:38 don't exist* 22:35:03 speed and hp and ac and ev etc generally have direct effects. holiness is a good analogy, though 22:35:04 it just happens to be more hidden than some of those and affects about 5000 things that it probably shouldn't 22:35:04 minmay: Where did somebody say HD didn't exist? 22:35:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:35:11 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: HD has direct effects too 22:35:13 reaverb: the problem is that hd isn't a thing that exists. 22:35:17 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: resistance to meph for example 22:35:26 also, polymorph results 22:35:27 Oh. 22:35:42 what I was trying to say there was that it wasn't a thing that you could describe in physical terms, because 22:35:46 "Challenge rating" seems like a good way of putting it. 22:35:50 " it's not how big a monster is, or how tough it is, or how strong it is." 22:35:53 etc 22:35:56 <|amethyst> reaverb: that's not right though 22:36:02 <|amethyst> reaverb: that's what tiers are supposed to be 22:36:08 elephant slug (16w) | Spd: 4 | HD: 20 | HP: 116-145 | AC/EV: 2/1 | Dam: 40 | Res: 06magic(80) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 200 | Sz: Big | Int: insect. 22:36:08 <|amethyst> %??elephant slug 22:36:11 is an elephant slug more challenging than a spriggan defender 22:36:12 titan (06C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 87-134 | AC/EV: 10/3 | Dam: 55 | 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(186), 10elec++, 12drown | XP: 2589 | Sp: b.lightning (3d24), minor healing (2d10), airstrike (0-50) | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 22:36:12 <|amethyst> %?? titan 22:36:16 |amethyst: Ah. 22:36:18 haha yes I love that we both leapt to the elephant slug 22:36:23 I will mourn the day elephant slug into titan is removed. 22:36:30 never. never 22:36:37 -!- MgDark has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:36:37 -!- Infinite_Monkeys has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:36:37 PleasingFungus: so how do you describe magic resistance in physical terms then 22:36:41 -!- MgDark_ is now known as MgDark 22:36:52 s??magic resistance[minqmay 22:36:55 That's pretty much everybody's first memorable experience with HD wackiness, isn't it? 22:36:59 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:37:03 ??magic resistance[minqmay 22:37:03 magic_resistance[5/5]: what "hostile enchantments" really means is "effects that can be resisted by "resistance to hostile enchantments"" 22:37:09 minmay: 'how good a chance they have of resisting your spells [except for the spells that can't be resisted, or that check other effects]' 22:37:13 boggart (06g) | Spd: 12 | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(18) | XP: 21 | Sp: confuse, slow, invisibility, blink, shadow creatures | Sz: little | Int: normal. 22:37:13 <|amethyst> %0.13?boggart 22:37:25 PleasingFungus: right, you can describe HD in exactly the same way 22:37:27 but it's still a lot simpler to describe than the random mish-mash of shit that is hdf 22:37:28 *hd 22:37:34 <|amethyst> minmay: oh? 22:37:39 PleasingFungus: except that the string for that wouldn't fit in a 32-bit system's memory, but you get the point 22:37:42 -!- home has quit [Changing host] 22:37:44 <|amethyst> aha 22:37:51 that is exactly my point, though 22:38:09 hd does too much shit to describe. it's not coherent 22:38:17 mr is... closer to being consistent 22:38:33 though you can see that crawl doesn't describe it that well right now 22:38:47 -!- kittykai has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:38:56 insofar as it's not clear what it protects against and what it doesn't (<3 giant eyeballs) 22:39:23 the best part about giant eyeballs is that they'll claim "you resist", as though it was an mr-checking effect 22:40:20 -!- Lasty has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:24 PleasingFungus: That last message sounds like a bug. 22:40:30 The best part of eyeballs is that golden eyes check MR and giant eyes don't 22:40:37 Since I'm a dev I'm defining it as a bug unless another dev says otherwise. 22:40:39 there are many best parts of eyeballs 22:40:40 Where is it? 22:40:41 reaverb: it's the message you get for paralysis not affecting you because you were recently paralysed 22:40:42 And there is no logic as to why this is 22:41:02 it's for the same reason that hellfire ignores rf, of course 22:41:08 the best part about eyeballs is that I have removing most of their current generation on my todo list 22:41:11 it's so that giant eyeballs can be a horrifying threat, forever 22:41:12 minmay: Yes, I would like to replace it with something like "It fails to effect you." 22:41:14 What, there's a limit to how soon again you can get paralyzed? 22:41:20 also there are a lot of places where "you resist" gets printed without you resisting something with MR 22:41:26 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:41:34 such as resisting something with a resistance 22:41:40 or getting hit by cleansing flame with nonzero AC 22:41:49 reaverb: I'd recommend 'affect' :) 22:41:59 though maybe effect is valid. it's a weird word 22:42:04 I guess the chain paralysis limit at least makes more sense than the chain abyss limit. 22:42:05 Red_Bucket: Yes, implemented when it use to be able to chain paralyze. 22:42:16 PleasingFungus: No you're correct, by spelling is awful. 22:42:26 When will the "you resist the pull of the abyss" happen in a real game. 22:42:44 I had like 5 commits in a row with spelling errors until I started copying and pasting the messages into google before pushing. 22:42:53 reaverb: seeing how many people don't even realize the paralysis resistance exists, I'd want to go ahead and say something like "You were paralysed too recently to be paralysed again" 22:43:06 except less terribly worded but you get the point 22:43:07 likewise the abyss resist 22:43:11 it's happened to me! it's useful! 22:43:12 minmay: That sounds better. 22:43:17 Actually, maybe it will actually happen now that returning from the abyss returns you to the same stop 22:43:18 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:35 I'd suggest just giving paralysis/banishment resistances status lights, really, even if it would affect tactics in a few rare places 22:43:43 also it would piss crate off, which is fun 22:43:50 haha, why would it piss crate off? 22:43:54 -!- P_R_Deltoid has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:56 he doesn't like status lights! 22:43:59 ahh 22:44:48 Maybe some/all status lights should be toggleable in the rc? 22:44:56 mm. not sure about status lights - it's very short duration, and I'm imagining it wearing off right after someone's turn and them getting frustrated since they were hit "even though they had the resist up" 22:45:04 idk tho 22:45:07 So a line like turn_of_status(Petrification, Sure Blade, Berserk) 22:45:38 minmay: Do you know where the paralysis code is so I can change that message. 22:45:41 ? 22:45:54 <|amethyst> player::paralyse 22:45:57 <|amethyst> player.cc 22:46:00 |amethyst: thanks. 22:46:07 making status lights toggleable in general sounds like a good example of an unnecessary option 22:46:42 elliptic: That's why I said "Maybe" :D 22:46:47 !source player.cc:7353 22:46:48 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player.cc;hb=HEAD#l7353 22:47:06 haha // The shock is too mild to do damage. 22:47:08 I love crawl comments 22:47:14 player.cc: // Being berserk makes you resistant to damage. I don't know why. 22:47:20 Nessos has hooves even as a guardian serpent 22:47:44 also, a tail and hind legs 22:47:57 judging by monspeak.txt 22:48:08 We have figured out the secret to deep dwarf damage resistence 22:48:14 It's because they are permanently angry. 22:48:28 Extremely angry at everything!!! 22:48:30 conterexample: DDHe 22:48:43 reaverb: it's called anger management. 22:48:58 <|amethyst> DDHe just go around shouting at people until they leave the dungeon browbeaten 22:48:59 I love that red wasps, specifically, don't care about paralysis immunity 22:49:11 PleasingFungus: It's kind of their thing. 22:49:20 I thought their thing was stinging to paralyze 22:49:24 I didn't know they needed more things 22:49:28 megaparalysis 22:49:32 -!- gallet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:49:44 that's yellow wasps' thing 22:49:51 yellow wasp (08y) | Spd: 15 | HD: 4 | HP: 13-32 | AC/EV: 5/14 | Dam: 1304(paralyse) | fly | Res: 06magic(16) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 126 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 22:49:51 %??yellow wasp 22:49:51 unknown monster: "tarantula" 22:49:51 %??tarantula 22:49:54 red wasp (05y) | Spd: 15 | HD: 8 | HP: 28-59 | AC/EV: 7/14 | Dam: 2304(paralyse) | fly | Res: 06magic(32) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 544 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 22:49:54 %??red wasp 22:49:58 tarantella (13s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 8 | HP: 17-38 | AC/EV: 3/14 | Dam: 1913(confuse) | web sense | Res: 06magic(21) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 214 | Sz: small | Int: insect. 22:49:58 %??tarantella 22:50:07 for some reason I thought one of the wasps did slowing instead of paral 22:50:13 Huh, didn't these spiders have venom? 22:50:17 they both do both slow and para 22:50:18 they both do both 22:50:21 oh 22:50:21 oops 22:50:22 Anybody mind if I remove red wasp mega paralysis anyway? 22:50:23 that'd explain it 22:50:33 remove red wasps while you're at it 22:50:36 haha 22:50:37 reaverb: what is "mega paralysis" here 22:50:38 -!- qoala has joined ##crawl-dev 22:50:45 I've never seen this happen 22:51:00 elliptic: red wasps ignore paralysis immunity (they can paralyze you even while you're paralyzed, or right after you recover from paralysis) 22:51:07 !source player.cc:7353 22:51:08 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/player.cc;hb=HEAD#l7353 22:51:10 elliptic: As PleasingFungus joked about it was mega paralysis. 22:51:17 A good player won't ever let a red wasp get near them so of course you've never seen it 22:51:20 I continued the joke by saying that. 22:51:23 now you're paralyzing with power! 22:51:23 I find this sort of difficult to believe given all the times I've been paralyzed by red wasps 22:51:27 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:51:46 elliptic: Well maybe it's buggy, and I'm just removing code which never worked in the first place! 22:51:50 Then what does overriding paralysis immunity even do 22:51:51 ha ha, buggy 22:51:52 yes that seems possible to me :P 22:51:57 so go ahead and remove that silly code 22:52:11 How old is this code? Is it linley code? 22:52:28 Red_Bucket: Paralysis immunity was implemented less than 2 years ago. 22:52:42 -!- thekdawg21 has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:55 Oh, then why would they try to give red wasps the ability to ignore it 22:53:16 looks like there are a bunch of special cases in AF_PARALYZE 22:53:30 fr remove paralyze 22:53:35 Give wasps petrifying stings 22:53:56 fr make petrify wasps spawn with bands of deep trolls 22:54:13 -!- indspenceable has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:54:26 Hmm, what message to give if you're immune to paralysis? 22:54:34 We'll pretend we're making the game less deadly while simultaneously making it more deadly 22:54:42 I guess it probably does work, and it is just pretty unlikely to have any gameplay effect 22:54:45 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:55:07 or hm 22:55:09 <|amethyst> was chain paralysis actually a problem? 22:55:14 Yes. 22:55:17 red wasp paralysis is really low duration 22:55:27 I know at least one guy who got chain paralyzed to death 22:55:38 |amethyst: can you get a save backup of 78291's gods game? 22:55:53 reaverb: hm 22:55:57 so maybe that's why I wasn't aware of this, because it just simulates red wasps having higher-duration paralysis sometimes 22:56:10 removing the special case still seems good to me anyway 22:56:18 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:26 |amethyst: it was a problem with things like sphinxes 22:56:30 This use to be a conversation about monster pain brand. 22:56:40 yes but it turns out no one cares about monster pain brand 22:56:46 as chris could tell you 22:57:04 <|amethyst> how long is paralysis immunity? 22:57:25 <|amethyst> if red wasps give 1 turn of paralysis and 5 turns of immunity that might be a bit much 22:57:38 looks like between 1 and 4 turns of immunity 22:57:40 randomly 22:57:41 1-3 turns it seems 22:58:19 yeah I'd suggest increasing red wasp paralysis duration slightly to compensate 22:58:25 oh I misread. yeah, 1-3 turns 22:58:38 or rather, 1d3 22:58:54 Hmm, does who && etc. in the paralysis check do anything? 22:59:05 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:41 checks to see if there's a null actor, presumably? 22:59:43 it makes sure who->type isn't dereferencing a null pointer, for one 22:59:46 yes 22:59:47 dammit 22:59:50 wheals: Anything else? 22:59:52 no your explanation was better 22:59:55 <|amethyst> if there is an agent and the agent isn't a red wasp, then... 23:00:09 I'm wondering if I can remove the agent now that I'm removing the wasp check. 23:00:16 ah 23:00:21 <|amethyst> if (source.empty() && who) 23:00:21 <|amethyst> source = who->name(DESC_A); 23:00:22 It's not like you're going to drink a !paralysis while paralyzed. 23:00:22 ot 23:00:31 well, it uses it for taking the note 23:00:33 -!- mee has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 23:00:43 and making the paralyzed_by prop (for deaths i guess) 23:00:44 wheals: Not from the function, just hte if 23:00:47 that would change behavior if this is ever called without an actor 23:00:53 I don't know whether it is 23:00:55 it wouldn't, though 23:01:04 or, hm 23:01:12 no, you're right 23:01:13 need to check every time it is called 23:01:17 <|amethyst> currently, if there is no actor, you don't get immunity 23:01:21 yes 23:01:28 is that a desired behavior? 23:01:46 the only way for that to happen i can think of is xom 23:02:24 if he can feed you a potion of paralysis while you're paralyzed 23:02:38 <|amethyst> err 23:02:44 <|amethyst> there's also the immunity perioud 23:02:46 <|amethyst> period 23:02:49 There are actually a couple null checks. 23:03:01 Does potion of curing cure paralysis? 23:03:44 Zin punishment and DD breaking would be made immune if the who check was removed. 23:03:58 DD breaking being Death's Door + Borg's 23:03:59 <|amethyst> and potion of paralysis 23:04:11 |amethyst: Yes, if you're with Xom. 23:04:21 <|amethyst> huh? 23:04:27 Death's door secret tech: get paralyzed by a red wasp before the duration ends. 23:04:31 <|amethyst> why xom specifically? 23:04:34 Then use borg 23:04:45 sounds like a good tech if you can find a para source shorter than what ddoor breaking would cause 23:05:11 cast para on yourself 23:05:16 wait, hm 23:05:17 |amethyst: Nevermind the Xom comment. 23:05:24 I'm going to keep the who check. 23:05:33 the trouble is breaking ddoor after paralyzing yourself 23:05:36 which could be a little tricky 23:05:45 keep a pet red wasp with you to make you immune to sphinxes 23:05:49 PleasingFungus: Heh. 23:05:59 no, i mean in the immunity period 23:06:01 -!- rchandra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:06:01 Red_Bucket: That already "works" 23:06:37 -!- Wangster has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:06:37 <|amethyst> yeah, this doesn't change what gives immunity (everything) 23:06:39 -!- palacebeast has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:06:42 <|amethyst> just what respects immunity 23:07:09 <|amethyst> you can already drink a potion of paralysis to get a few turns of immunity from a sphinx 23:07:14 <|amethyst> not that you'd want to, but 23:07:30 -!- home has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:21 hm, ddoor aborting is 4 + d5, potion is 1 + d6 23:08:56 <|amethyst> wheals: so it's good that reaver is keeping the null check :) 23:08:58 so if you make the change, optimal strategy will be to quaff a para potion first if you want to borg out of ddoor! 23:09:01 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:08 wheals: I feel like you might be missing something here 23:09:11 a very small thing 23:10:02 lies 23:10:07 Oh, does anybody know where red wasp paralyzation code is? 23:10:08 possibly. 23:10:17 reaverb: melee_attack.cc 23:10:20 reaverb: melee_attacks.cc, the AF_PARALYSIS code 23:10:25 or AF_PARALYSE 23:10:27 w/e it is 23:10:39 both of those were wrong, filthy american 23:10:41 dang 23:10:44 AF_PARALYSE 23:10:54 ...isn't that the second one that I typed 23:10:59 oh 23:11:00 haha 23:11:02 i read it as a Z 23:11:06 filthy american! 23:11:12 yes :( 23:11:15 o/ 23:11:18 So does quaffing !paralysis at the start of ddoor to let you safely break it with borg work or not? 23:11:33 \o 23:11:37 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: no 23:11:37 Red_Bucket: yes, as long as you can cast borg while paralysed 23:11:47 No, even if you can. 23:11:51 oh :( 23:11:53 rip secret tech 23:12:08 <|amethyst> if reaverb had removed the null check, then that would be possible 23:12:08 It never existed in the first place! 23:12:11 Oh, I was mixing up ddoor para length with the duration 23:12:15 What is the duration of ddoor? 23:12:22 Well I guess it was on my local computer for maybe 15 minutes. 23:12:24 even then, you'd want to quaff !paralysis at the end 23:12:29 rather than the start 23:12:50 How much should I buff red_wasp paralyzation by? 23:13:01 make it, oh 23:13:02 30 turns 23:13:04 that should be good 23:13:46 If paralysis was wonky enough to freeze your statuses while it was in effect, ddoor + paralysis would work. 23:14:10 I know paralysis is wonky enough to freeze the timer on fulminant prism 23:14:52 I think I'll make it 1 + 1d3 instead of 1d3 23:15:20 Also, the parameters on roll_dice() are really unintiutive one day somebody is going to mess that up and I'll be bad. 23:15:25 What did the null check do 23:15:26 It'll 23:15:31 that stopped secret paralysis check 23:15:37 *paralysis tech 23:16:09 Red_Bucket: Only makes you immune to paralysis because of old paralysis if the new paralysis is coming from a monster. 23:16:10 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: it makes paralysis that doesn't come from a monster (like ddoor breaking) not respect the temporary immunity period 23:17:26 Hmm, is AF_PARA used by something like yellow wasps? 23:17:41 -!- EriktheRed has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:10 <|amethyst> reaverb: yes, those two monsters 23:18:18 <|amethyst> red and yellow wasps 23:18:24 |amethyst: Hmm. 23:18:31 didn't one of them used to have AF_SLOW or something? 23:18:45 qoala: if they fail to paralyze, they slow instead 23:18:50 this is true for both yellow and red wasps 23:18:52 apparently 23:19:06 "failing" being "you have rPois" 23:19:17 uh 23:19:19 no 23:19:22 <|amethyst> there's also a roll 23:19:30 Pleasingfungus: Err, yes you're correct. 23:19:32 <|amethyst> and the roll is harder for a yellow wasp to make 23:19:41 poor yellow wasps 23:19:42 unloved 23:19:43 Will they slow you if you have para immunity in this new change 23:19:45 and rPois makes you completely immune. 23:19:55 Red_Bucket: No, it just won't work. 23:20:04 and I'm not implementing that. 23:20:04 Isn't that kind of wonky 23:20:07 eh 23:20:10 yellow wasps did it before 23:20:20 Yes it is, but the code would be wonky if I tried to check for that. 23:20:48 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: slowed you if they chose to paralyse but that failed? 23:21:06 |amethyst: no, did nothing if they chose to paralyze but failed (just like red wasps do now) 23:21:10 I phrased myself poorly 23:21:13 <|amethyst> ah 23:21:14 So you're telling me that if you're coming out of paralysis, that a yellow wasp is more dangerous than a red wasp because it is more likely to roll low and slow you, rather than rolling high and trying to paralyze you again, but do nothing 23:21:35 well 23:21:39 a red wasp will do much more damage 23:21:42 and is tougher 23:21:52 Red_Bucket: Well i'm pretty sure they do less damage, but yes if they roll the same. 23:22:03 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 23:22:10 but in a very limited way, in a niche situation, yes, yellow wasps are arguably sort of more dangerous 23:22:12 Feel free to submit a patch if you think you can elegantly fix that. 23:22:16 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: currently red wasps also ignore immunity, but that's what reaver is changing 23:22:30 Yeah, I meant after the change 23:22:41 |amethyst: can you think of any code where we list files? (unrelated to paralysis discussion) 23:23:04 Can't the sting just check for paralysis immunity. 23:23:11 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: get_dir_files exists 23:23:25 excellent 23:23:39 You know, I think I'll just give red wasps an even high chance of making the paralysis roll, does that sound fine? 23:23:52 <|amethyst> even high chance? 23:23:58 in addition to boosting the length of their paralysis? 23:24:05 |amethyst: relative to yellow wasps, I assume 23:24:06 PleasingFungus: Instead. 23:24:23 <|amethyst> what do you mean by "even", and how high? 23:24:40 It's possible to target dazzling spray such that it hits the player by 78291 23:24:40 If the damage is greater than 4, currenly they're a â…“ chance of 1d3 paralysis. 23:24:50 I'm thinking about making that â…“ to 1/2 23:25:07 -!- Rotatell has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:25:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:25:29 for red wasps. 23:25:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:25:47 I think â…™ of 1d3 is around the same as 1 23:26:10 In fact, on average it's excatly the same. More consistancy is more powerful though. 23:26:23 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26:25 <|amethyst> 1/2 of 1d3 you mean? 23:26:27 wait, actually it's less powerful for monsters. 23:26:35 |amethyst: ½ -1/3 23:26:45 since I'm changing it to ½ from â…“ 23:27:24 <|amethyst> 1/6 of 1d3 has an expected value of 1/3 23:27:26 Do any box of beast applicable chimera ingredients have more than one ability? 23:27:29 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 23:27:39 |amethyst: Oh, oops. 23:28:12 Because I was thinking if chimeras get extended to humanoids, they can't have ALL the spells of their ingredients. 23:28:29 Red_Bucket: Chimeras already handle spells. 23:28:31 Or maybe they could. Chei, at least, bugs out when making chimeras with tns of spells 23:28:42 Here's the problem 23:29:00 Red_Bucket: Really? Show me. 23:29:07 An example of Chei bugging out. 23:29:11 chimera (necromancer, ogre mage, Jessica) (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 27-56 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 6, 12, 5 | evil | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 08holy, 11silver | XP: 534 | Sp: b.cold (3d18), agony, blink, haste other, pain (d13), 04esc:minor healing (2d5) / b.cold (3d18), agony, haste, haste other, pain (d13), 04esc:teleport self / b.cold (3d18), agony, invisibility, haste other, pain (d13), 04esc:teleport other / b.cold (3d18), agony, invisibility, haste other, pain (d13), 04esc:teleport self / b.fire (3d18), agony, invisibility, haste other, pain (d13) | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 23:29:11 %??necromancer-ogre_mage-jessica chimera 23:29:19 oops 23:29:23 See, it gives the corret answer. 23:29:50 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:29:50 I think I got one where something was putting in the escape spell slot that shouldn't be there 23:30:22 Grunt: i guess i should ask this to you, since you seem to be the expert in combat code 23:30:30 Lom Lobon (12&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 19 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 10433 | Sp: glaciate (42d1), conjure ball lightning, major healing, tornado, blink range | Sz: Large | Int: high. 23:30:30 %??lom lobon 23:30:36 what a horrifying role 23:30:42 wheals: ? 23:30:53 chimera (Lom Lobon, Cerebov, Gloorx Vloq) (06H) | Spd: 15 | HD: 19 | HP: 360 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 4012(antimagic), 60, 45 | fighter, !sil | Res: 06magic(76), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 09poison+++, 13neg+++ | Vul: 11silver | XP: 10305 | Sp: glaciate (42d1), conjure ball lightning, major healing, fire storm (8d14), poison arrow (3d26), 04esc:tornado / glaciate (42d1), conjure ball lightning, major healing, fire storm (8d15), poison arrow (3d26), 04esc:tornado | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 23:30:53 %??lom_lobon-cerebov-gloorx_vloq chimera 23:31:15 in mons_attack_effects, isn't the defender->expose_to_element duplicating the expose_to_element called in mons_apply_attack_flavour? 23:31:30 It's using tornado as an escape spell 23:31:55 which would be relevant, for example, for draconians getting hit by a cold attack, if they can get slowed twice 23:31:55 Also, it isn't getting all the spells. How is it determined what it gets 23:32:04 Is just giving red_wasps 1d2 fine? 23:32:11 err, 2d3 paralysis/slow 23:32:52 wheals: no, actually; the latter part of that is intended to help with staff damage. 23:33:01 <|amethyst> reaverb: lom lobon has tornado as an escape spell 23:33:02 <|amethyst> err 23:33:07 ...which it doesn't, because apply_staff_damage originally cleared special_damage and such at one point. 23:33:08 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: lom lobon has tornado as an escape spell 23:33:23 <|amethyst> Red_Bucket: chei doesn't show it as such because it's a duplicate of another slot 23:33:29 wheals: so there is a bug there, but it's not what you think it is. 23:33:30 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:33:45 Red wasps havein 2d3 paralysis is fine correct? 23:34:04 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:35:07 well, mons_apply_attack_flavour sets special_damage to >0, so i'd assume that the latter expose_to_element gets called even with AFs, not just with staves 23:35:48 wheals: correct, but removing the call altogether isn't the solution 23:35:51 What do other para sources give? 23:36:00 2 extra turns is a lot I think I'll revert to 1 + 1d3 23:36:37 (i was wondering whether this also had to do with #7971 but it's probably separate) 23:37:14 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 23:38:52 |amethyst: What about the huge spell list problem? Chei isn't listing all the spells. Does that mean the chimera isn't getting all the spells or just chei isn't able to list them 23:39:14 Red_Bucket: Chimera not getting them all that's on purpose. 23:39:20 wheals: mm I see what to do 23:39:28 wheals: actually there's an interesting side effect here 23:39:38 Red_Bucket: A monster cannot have more than 6 spells period. 23:39:45 (and really handling staff damage is a mess and it probably should be in the weapon brand code anyway) 23:39:50 err, however many spells they can have. 23:40:10 PleasingFungus: do you have that paralysis message read? 23:40:17 ? 23:40:34 Instead of "you resist" 23:40:38 Is there anyway to update chei so that he can show the "true" spell slots of monsters? 23:40:49 Since monsters have duplicate spells for increased weighting 23:41:11 oh. I was thinking about "you can't be paralyzed again this soon!", but it's more of a message for a self-inflicted effect 23:41:13 You said "Let's see" or something after I mentioned it so I thought you were thining about it. 23:41:23 Red_Bucket: Define "true" 23:42:14 -!- bones___ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:24 reaverb: all six spell slots, like how a daeva is smiting, none, none, smiting, smiting 23:42:38 daeva (08A) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 101-137 | AC/EV: 10/13 | Dam: 25, 10 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(149), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 2102 | Sp: smiting (7-17) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 23:42:38 %??daeva 23:42:43 *smiting, none, none, smiting, smiting, none 23:42:50 Hmm, don't know. 23:42:51 "Your body shrugs off further paralysis!" (perhaps "repeated paralysis"?) 23:43:03 <|amethyst> that would be possible but I wouldn't want to do it by default 23:43:03 -!- asdu has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:43:17 PleasingFungus: That sounds good. 23:43:20 <|amethyst> because that's a lot of extra text 23:43:40 Just make it "You shrug off repeated paralysis." 23:43:41 Pleasingfungus: Hmm, I think "further" 23:43:45 though "repeated" is kind of 23:43:47 ideally we get a more sensible spell choice system first :) 23:43:53 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:44:15 |amethyst: get to work :b 23:44:16 wheals: psssh. what are the odds of that? 23:44:32 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-466-gdd64979: Don't inflict AF_FIRE/AF_COLD side effects twice (wheals). 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd64979f5076 23:44:32 03Grunt02 07* 0.15-a0-467-g561eabc: Def out some more phoenix sightings. 10(45 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=561eabc9a812 23:45:34 PleasingFungus: Your body or you? I think your body flows better. 23:45:38 for the message. 23:45:46 too bad i removed the item destruction first, so we can't credit you with halving melee item destruction 23:46:05 how cold 23:46:11 (I think I introduced that bug in the first place :( ) 23:46:16 mmm 23:47:06 'You' is shorter, which is nice. 'Your body' feels like it provides more of a 'justification', in some sense, but I don't know if that's necessary? 23:47:39 <|amethyst> does transformation remove immunity? 23:47:41 I'll do Your body, somebody else can change it later if they want. 23:47:46 |amethyst: No. 23:47:50 ahh, true, it doesn't. yeah, 'you' is fine 23:48:09 "you resist the pull of the abyss" doesn't make it really clear why it happened either 23:48:15 yeah I would like to change that too 23:48:18 maybe "the repeated paralysis" 23:48:18 I think I'll go with "You shrug off the repeated paralysis!" then 23:49:46 Hmm, monster necro skill, paralysis red wasp, paralysis message, anybody remember the last thing I wanted to do? 23:49:56 weapon brand rework? 23:49:56 <_< 23:50:03 s/rework/distribution &/ 23:50:19 Red_Bucket: Wait, are you the one who mentioned red wasps or was that the message. 23:50:37 Grunt: Is there something you want to do that's held up on that? I haven't been putting priority on that. 23:50:45 I can power it out tomorrow if you want. 23:50:52 I've done some work on it. 23:50:56 Nah. 23:51:07 It's only really on my radar because it's on the planning page. 23:51:16 Red wasps were brought up because we were talking about HD based resistance and somebody brought up how the resist from giant eyeballs isn't MR or HD 23:52:27 also, that's a reason why you shouldn't use "your body" 23:52:37 Because it makes less sense for giant eyeballs 23:52:50 Red_Bucket: not using your body, so did you mention anything about paralysis? 23:52:57 "your body" 23:52:59 the mesage. 23:54:20 Mention anything like what? 23:54:35 Red_Bucket: paralysis 23:54:46 ugh, I can't pass "foo".c_str() to mkstemp(), because it takes a char *, and c_str() gives const char * 23:54:52 where you the one to bring it up? I like giving everybody proper credit. 23:55:03 No, I didn't really have anything to do with that 23:55:11 PleasingFungus: Temp variable. 23:55:16 Red_Bucket: 'K 23:55:33 yeah, we were talking about HD and MR 23:55:35 [20:39] PleasingFungus the best part about giant eyeballs is that they'll claim "you resist", as though it was an mr-checking effect 23:55:37 My mention of the pain brand thing just incited it to be brought up by PleasingFungus 23:55:44 Nobody remembers the fourth minor change I thought came out of this IRC conversation? Ok then. 23:55:59 reaverb: wouldn't that have the same problem? 23:56:06 the temp var. I guess I'll try 23:56:16 <|amethyst> allocate a new array 23:57:04 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [] 23:57:06 memory allocation ;_; 23:57:41 Even C++ garbage collects temp varaibles. 23:57:55 <|amethyst> reaverb: you can't make a dynamically sized auto array though 23:58:15 |amethyst: Yes, but this is a char*, isn't it? 23:58:19 yeah, I'm going to have to malloc & strcpy & free 23:58:29 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: what is your input? 23:58:42 const string cha_fil = _make_ghost_filename(); (which is variable length) 23:59:15 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]