00:00:21 oh, that's just a pixel art concern; we just have to make it transparent enough that you can see if the monster's dead or not 00:00:35 or make it different if you killed it etc etc 00:01:33 Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.13.1-36-g052d4d5 00:02:07 plausible 00:02:17 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:31 -!- NekoRex is now known as Dejiko 00:09:04 PleasingFungus: grunt pointed out recently that there's a tiles option to disable projectile animation 00:09:08 actually I need to enable that now 00:09:15 s/a tiles/an/ 00:10:13 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3499-g5545dd3 (34) 00:10:18 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:20 you will make some people happy, and other people mad 00:10:56 -!- blackcustard_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:05 Grunt: is it also used when I spectate? 00:12:12 gammafunk: good question... 00:12:39 * gammafunk mumbles about certain console players on the dev team that play too fast and churn up his cpu with projectiles when he spectates them in tiles.. 00:12:53 I have no idea who you're talking about. 00:17:55 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:23:02 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:24:33 -!- jeffro- has joined ##crawl-dev 00:24:47 -!- jeffro- is now known as jeffro 00:24:48 -!- jeffro has quit [Changing host] 00:24:48 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 00:25:58 -!- jeffro_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:28:49 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 00:39:42 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3499-g5545dd3 (34) 00:40:07 -!- LordSloth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:41 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 00:41:03 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:05 Webtiles server restarted. 00:48:45 Webtiles restart!!! 00:49:45 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:32 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:58:40 !hs * sk=fire 00:58:41 97060. jeanjacques the Infernalist (L27 DEFE of Kikubaaqudgha), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2012-02-01 18:10:03, with 21113251 points after 71696 turns and 11:39:13. 00:58:53 !hs * sk=fire max=sk 00:58:54 97060. Zaba the Firebug (L1 DEFE), slain by a giant gecko on D:1 on 2007-11-15 15:16:36, with 31 points after 171 turns and 0:00:45. 00:58:56 nope 00:59:00 ? 00:59:00 !hs * --FE 00:59:01 125269. 4thArraOfDagon the Conqueror (L27 LOFE of Sif Muna), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-06-11 23:42:50, with 38718980 points after 37718 turns and 12:32:15. 00:59:07 !hs * --Cj 00:59:08 110932. PurpleRed the Archmage (L27 TeCj of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-01-31 03:28:38, with 38397824 points after 38015 turns and 20:34:58. 00:59:27 !hs * --FE -2 00:59:27 125268/125269. Bruce the Archmage (L27 DEFE of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2014-02-23 08:18:46, with 38718212 points after 37943 turns and 15:02:04. 01:00:58 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:35 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:04:38 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 01:06:31 gammafunk: just testing a server bot in another room where I idle 01:06:38 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:44 Rotatell> johnstein: Webtiles server restarted. 01:06:53 now I get pinged 01:14:40 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0a1/20140320030203]] 01:16:56 fr: when an orb of fire glows deep purple, Highway Star plays 01:24:25 -!- ttj__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:39 -!- floatboth has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:05 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30:18 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:02 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:12 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:31 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:45 -!- User is now known as Xenobreeder 01:46:14 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:34 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:50 -!- ttj has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:44 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:38 -!- ttj__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:10 so if i read a scroll of teleport in abyss 01:57:24 and get the message 01:57:26 You feel the power of the Abyss delaying your translocation. 01:57:34 and then i immediately leave abyss through a gateway 01:57:48 howlong should it take the teleport to kick in, back in the main dungeon? 01:59:17 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:58 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:00:32 is it intentional fo cant shaft in tomb? apparently you cant 02:01:07 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:08:14 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:40 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:59 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 02:12:36 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 02:13:56 -!- raskol` has quit [Quit: quit] 02:14:08 -!- eb has quit [] 02:15:11 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:27 Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.13.1-36-g052d4d5 02:17:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:18:58 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:21:59 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:24:54 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:04 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 02:30:41 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:31:38 simmarine you mean Fo can anywhere except tomb? 02:32:12 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:32:38 they cant in abyss and maybe other places? i dont actually know and will look at it closer tomorrow. i just find it a little silly if they arent allowed to since it seems inconsistent (abyss is easy to handwave though) 02:36:58 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:37:50 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 02:38:08 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:39:20 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:40:19 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 02:42:59 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 02:46:52 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:55 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:21 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:53:34 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 03:00:57 ?/iron troll 03:01:01 Matching entries (4): deep_troll[1] | lemuel[4] | trog_wrath[1] | wucad_mu's_monastery[1] 03:01:03 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:01:06 ??lemuel[4 03:01:06 lemuel[4/7]: Agrees that Iron Trolls don't belong in the Troll Bridge vault. 03:02:48 -!- thedefinite has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 03:03:18 -!- Laraso has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:38 -!- broquaint has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:50 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:28 03Andrew Minton02 {wheals} 07* 0.14-a0-3500-gf5a9605: Remove damage traps, ~, ^ from vaults (except Zot:5). 10(10 days ago, 10 files, 137+ 147-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f5a9605d5af0 03:15:06 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:25 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:16:31 -!- ZChris13_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:40 -!- ZChris13_ is now known as ZChris13 03:16:51 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:00 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:58 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:12 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 03:22:40 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:24:10 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:33 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:30:36 -!- ontoclasm1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:34:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:28 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:46 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:06 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:43:03 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:24 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 03:50:26 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:00:01 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:12:49 -!- rast- has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:35 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 04:19:12 Hopeless2 (L18 LOFi) ASSERT(in_bounds(p)) in 'items.cc' at line 3730 failed. (p = (0,0)) (Vaults:3) 04:19:48 !crashlog Hopeless2 04:19:48 1. 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##crawl-dev 07:53:09 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:41 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:04:43 -!- wat has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:35 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:12:20 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:15:35 -!- bd- has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:20:13 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:21:37 !messages 08:21:38 No messages for TZer0. 08:22:53 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:24:31 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:25:10 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 08:25:17 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:44 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:28:14 -!- Ketsa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 08:33:12 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 08:36:51 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:41:21 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:23 hmm, does anyone understand the ash skill boost code 08:45:28 or the description for it, rather 08:45:47 it seems to reliably crash whenever you're bound and look at the description 08:45:53 !source _describe_ash_skill_boost 08:45:54 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/describe.cc;hb=HEAD#l4255 08:48:46 oh hmm maybe i broke something actually 08:54:07 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:55:13 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:00:36 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:18 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:07:05 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:07:30 -!- gnum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:56 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 09:13:54 -!- Fusha has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:13:58 -!- Fushatwo is now known as FUsha 09:14:00 -!- FUsha is now known as Fusha 09:14:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:01 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:20:59 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:25:58 -!- rorriMnmaD has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:27:25 -!- NomadJim has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:29:46 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3501-gd88e64c: Uncapitalise some vault names 10(4 hours ago, 8 files, 22+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d88e64c68bcd 09:29:46 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3502-g806dd92: Update and improve god descriptions 10(25 minutes ago, 2 files, 69+ 69-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=806dd9276eac 09:30:14 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 09:30:37 well i'm thoroughly confused i guess, somehow that "ASSERT(bonus == it->second);" triggers in my cygwin build but not on cao and not in my msysgit build 09:31:41 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 09:31:56 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:52 Ring of protection from magic giving umbra to monster - again by minmay 09:38:32 oh, the patch from the old umbra bug wasn't actually applied 09:38:39 that would probably explain things 09:39:15 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:40:25 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:52 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:41:42 What about listing damage resistance percentages in the manual? 09:41:42 dpeg: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 09:41:46 !messages 09:41:46 (1/1) bh said (5d 12h 59m 37s ago): probably by accident? 09:43:26 that probably made more sense in context 09:44:43 wheals: looks like all "large opal" rings get an umbra after all 09:44:53 amazing 09:45:03 i'll add the is_unrandom_artefact check 09:47:29 MarvinPA: we're close to Nethack levels of detailism! :) 09:47:41 PleasingFungus: indeed, I have completely forgotten what this was about. 09:47:42 heh 09:51:00 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:54:36 * bhaak files a feature request about eating rings 09:55:18 bhaak: mushroom rings? 09:56:30 * bhaak files a bug report about missing hallucination vision 10:01:52 -!- Fusha has quit [] 10:06:05 Stable (0.13) branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.13.1-36-g052d4d5 10:07:17 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:13 fr: summons tell who summoned them 10:08:35 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:10:47 that's actually something I've missed for a while 10:12:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:16:06 also fr: chei blocks slow 10:16:09 you're already slow enough 10:17:06 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:18:26 03wheals02 07* 0.14-a0-3503-g9cbff62: Large opal rings aren't unrandarts. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9cbff625fb99 10:18:55 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 10:19:32 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:36 Bloax: hm, a bit like Ash blocking curses? 10:20:38 -!- ttus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:57 well slowing is even worse for cheites than for anyone else 10:21:09 because your movement is now a glorious ~3 turns a step 10:21:12 and your attacks are also slow 10:21:15 I know but that's not my point. 10:21:23 but yes 10:21:35 ash does that for gameplay reasons, doesn't seem like an issue for chei 10:22:02 MarvinPA: sure, but could certainly find a thematic reason for that behaviour 10:24:36 slow is actually less dangerous for chei chars in some ways because of how teleport delay works 10:24:43 slow? that's just slouch damage boost :) 10:25:12 Medar: slow doesn't increase slouch damage, silly 10:25:28 ah 10:25:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:26:16 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 10:27:01 maybe we should disallow it so that people don't think it does 10:27:55 it does increase slouch damage (a little) 10:27:57 well uh, it does 10:27:58 yes 10:28:37 oh, so maybe we should disallow it so that people don't stupidly use it for increasing slouch damage 10:28:45 wheals: Chei blocking all Slow would be one way to do that 10:29:22 this seems like a pretty weak reason to disallow something 10:29:24 that seems like a bad reason to disallow a status effect that is pretty relevant elsewhere 10:29:26 haha 10:29:45 i'm not being entirely serious at this point, yeah 10:29:48 i'm too slow :( 10:30:04 !send MarvinPA potion of haste 10:30:04 Sending potion of haste to MarvinPA. 10:30:59 by the way, even if slow didn't increase slouch damage, decreasing a stat to zero still would 10:31:54 well that's pretty difficult with +>12 to everything 10:32:10 neqoxec_reasons 10:32:41 keep polymorphing some critter until it turns into a brain worm 10:32:49 keep it handy for slouchscumming reasons 10:35:26 other good strategies for increasing slouch damage: roots status, frozen status, overloaded 10:39:31 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:42:43 -!- orcus has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:44:32 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3504-g6eebc76: Add information to ^! screen for gods that don't use Invocations skill 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6eebc767a845 10:45:39 Once again: do you think it'd be useful to explain the resticance pips <--> percentages mapping in the manual? 10:46:13 yes 10:47:14 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0a1/20140320030203]] 10:55:29 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:55:30 -!- radinms has quit [] 10:56:13 -!- herself has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:57:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:51 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 11:03:28 * Grunt awakens. 11:03:47 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:00 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:27 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 11:06:56 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 11:07:49 Grunt: from eternal slumber? 11:08:09 I am always asleep; this is merely a dream! 11:08:44 -!- Zicher has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:08:50 !send Grunt iodine 11:08:50 Sending iodine to Grunt. 11:14:23 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:14:23 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:10 * geekosaur mumbles something about R'lyeh 11:16:41 In his house at ##crawl-dev, great Grunt lies dreaming. 11:17:28 Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Grunt ##crawl-dev wgah'nagl fhtagn 11:17:49 Zaba: <3 11:29:32 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:32:01 -!- Elynae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:32:33 Ashenzari warns you: "Grunt is!" 11:34:18 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:34:39 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:35:09 |amethyst: I just noticed that you are an sf project admin - at such a time as we have 0.13.2 or 0.14.0 or similar builds ready, do you think you can get those online? 11:35:25 <|amethyst> I am? 11:35:30 <|amethyst> oh, right 11:35:43 <|amethyst> sure, I think, though I might need reminders on how it works 11:35:49 * Grunt nods. 11:35:53 <|amethyst> I don't deal with SF very often 11:36:03 I hear it's terrible now 11:36:03 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:36:16 Well, dpeg is also an SF admin, though he's probably about as up to speed on things there as you are. 11:36:22 indeed! 11:36:26 <|amethyst> I just sent a message to frogor/pudquick on reddit asking about mac builds 11:36:32 Between the two of you I think we can figure something out :) 11:37:47 Probably we can use 0.13.2 as a trial run to see how 0.14 is going to work in that respect. 11:37:57 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:19 <|amethyst> but what if we discover old bugs between 0.13.2 release and 0.14 release? :) 11:38:37 ...then we can do a 0.13.3 release much later! <_< 11:38:56 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 11:39:18 is there any special requirement for doing a mac build besides 'having a mac'? I've been building crawl on the mac for development... 11:39:26 I can most likely do the source packaging and Windows builds for releases, in any case. 11:39:57 <|amethyst> it requires specific old versions of xtools to make fat binaries (PPC + Intel 32-bit) with support for old versions of OS X 11:40:35 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:36 ah 11:41:00 geeze, when was the last PPC mac anyways 11:41:01 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:16 Eight years ago? 11:41:22 10.5 intel can cross build for ppc 11:41:41 -!- randart has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:42:23 but 2006 feels like it was only yesterday 11:42:40 pah :p 11:43:45 I wonder if we actually have any PPC mac users 11:44:48 <|amethyst> I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to drop PPC support if it means we can do automated builds 11:45:22 <|amethyst> we could host third-party PPC builds if anyone cared enough to make them 11:45:27 * geekosaur finds lua50, feels better about making a port of this 11:45:42 especially since you can still play online anyway 11:45:42 If people really are dead set on using PPC, they're probably capable of generating their own builds or finding someone that can. 11:46:42 (I'm vaguely poking at getting crawl into macports; someone will pull it into homebrew after that, and then there will be build options for people on random macs) 11:47:28 mmm 11:48:24 probably separate ports for console vs. tiles. not planning on trying to address webtiles build currently) 11:48:50 macports portfiles are ugly to do. not as ugly as fink but still ... 11:49:24 * geekosaur has been using macports since ca. 2000, was doing tcl before that, is not particularly scared of portfiles 11:49:46 <|amethyst> does webtiles work on OS X even? 11:49:52 I have no clue 11:50:04 |amethyst: yeah, I got it to work 11:50:20 <|amethyst> oh, I guess OS X has the inotify API now? 11:50:32 hrm, I don't recall seeing anything about that 11:50:56 not inotify /per se/ but there is certainly a native equivalent API 11:51:23 <|amethyst> yeah, I figured a wrapper around dtrace or such 11:51:28 -!- Quazifuji has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:51:41 it may also support a kqueue api like *bsd, I haven't checked 11:51:46 yes, it has kqueue 11:52:00 it has kqueue, but possibly not a file watching API built on top of it 11:52:23 I was under the impression OS X's file watching API is built on top of mach ports, not kqueue 11:53:13 I should try getting it to work again to make sure I'm not just crazy 11:53:49 I used to build crawl a lot on os x, and I'm almost certain I tested webtiles in it as well 11:54:16 the "right" way to do it is probably to use fam or gamin or etc. which abstracts away the underlying notification api 11:55:00 there is also the file system events api 11:56:57 FWIW there is already a terminal version of crawl in homebrew. 11:57:08 <|amethyst> it looks like webserver/inotify.py looks for the inotify API in libc specifically 11:57:27 <|amethyst> hm 11:57:33 yeh, console is easy, I could trivially make my local build work 11:57:47 <|amethyst> I guess if it didn't work, the only problem would be that you couldn't see sockets from console games or a separate webtiles instance 11:58:00 <|amethyst> which wouldn't happen in stand-alone builds anyway 11:58:03 modulo lua since last I tried it 5.2 didn't work, but I can get 5.0 11:58:36 <|amethyst> we should upgrade all our contribs 11:58:51 <|amethyst> not right now, but after release 11:59:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:59:24 <|amethyst> I'm sure at least some of them have security updates 11:59:28 <|amethyst> off to work 11:59:38 -!- orcus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:05:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:08:17 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:05 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 12:10:43 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:54 -!- rast- is now known as rast 12:13:43 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 12:15:02 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:15:46 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3504-g6eebc76 (34) 12:17:50 -!- ZRN has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:19 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:38 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:03 Reskilling to fighting creates fake rot. by elliptic 12:27:37 -!- ilmucche has quit [Client Quit] 12:28:14 <|amethyst> Napkin: I was trying to manually run the mingw build on CDO and saw that the cross-compiler isn't installed 12:29:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:29:27 <|amethyst> Napkin: if you can install that, I think I can handle the necessary stuff for 0.14 (except maybe dgamelaunch since I don't think I'd have permissions to publish) 12:29:35 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:31:36 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 12:31:56 <|amethyst> I'm not sure about debian builds 12:31:57 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:34:58 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:05 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:41:25 hey |amethyst 12:41:39 do you have a windows to try out the builds? 12:41:50 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:44:31 -!- jason55 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:44:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 12:46:59 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 12:47:41 <|amethyst> I have a laptop with Windows 7, but nothing older 12:47:54 <|amethyst> so I could try it out (later, have to get back to work) 12:56:32 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:23 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:07:47 -!- Tedronai has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:08:39 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:22 re: elliptic's bug report above. from 3/21. 19:17:22 I think I made it so you can kill yourself with Ash reskilling 13:09:46 wonder if it's related 13:09:55 %git xtrain 13:09:55 07bh02 * 0.14-a0-3429-g7f91cc7: Merge branch 'master' into xtrain 10(4 days ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7f91cc7d5951 13:10:03 oh 13:10:03 probably only in the branch 13:10:05 Ty 13:10:18 that sounds likely to be xtrain branch, yeah 13:10:22 didn't realize it was a separate branch 13:11:05 * johnstein miscasts Flash of Insight 13:11:47 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:16:49 -!- iFurril has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:17:42 03wheals02 07* 0.14-a0-3505-g4d4824d: Rework the icemail mutation. 10(35 minutes ago, 6 files, 5+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d4824d9fdf8 13:19:54 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:21:39 -!- orcus has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:22:18 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22:29 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:23:24 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:07 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:45 -!- gnum has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:28:47 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:35:00 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 13:36:44 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:24 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:47:39 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:49 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:18 -!- Kalawaraka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:49:50 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:46 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:15 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 13:54:38 -!- lobf has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:43 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:55:52 -!- rast- is now known as rast 13:58:00 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:59:59 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:01:36 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:27 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:04:58 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:32 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:06:54 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:06:58 -!- ZRN_ is now known as ZRN 14:07:43 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:12:11 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:53 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:24 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 14:20:29 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 14:21:08 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:05 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:58 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:23 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:37:39 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 14:40:50 -!- Ququman_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:43:21 ??Firestarter 14:43:21 firestarter[1/1]: +7 great mace of flaming; rF++, scrollcons, inner flames what it hits. 14:46:53 -!- notclui has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:18 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:26 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:55 Grunt: ABB! A-Always B-Be B-Branching. Always Be Branching! 14:54:41 * Grunt gestures. gammafunk suddenly stops moving! 14:57:39 * tenofswords wonders if he should outsource some of this riduclous last-minute editing left 14:59:34 like, "actually figure out the hierarchy of how the newer layouts and layout_types work to see if special rooms place less often and what layouts could also use them" is something I probably won't even figure out 15:00:01 tenofswords: who said what you quoted? 15:00:16 me 15:00:25 :) 15:06:58 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08:26 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:13:01 what traps are left 15:13:02 teleportation, zot, ? 15:13:12 shaft 15:13:14 alarm, shaft 15:13:16 alarm 15:14:01 lua 15:14:12 you could say mimic is a trap type, too 15:14:53 (The alarm trap is a mimic!) 15:15:23 But wait, that Geryon was just a mimic! 15:15:57 Geryon dissolves into shadows! 15:18:39 wheals: lua is a trap? 15:18:42 I knew it 15:20:24 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:07 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:32:41 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:32:41 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 15:32:41 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:41:58 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:11 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:48:09 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:49:21 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:51:46 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:58 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 15:53:02 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:54:51 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:02 huh. the power of ashenzari reveals to you... an inaccessible vault! 15:55:32 !locateall PleasingFungus 15:55:33 PleasingFungus: CAO 0.14-a, L15 GrFi of Ashenzari 15:55:50 http://i.imgur.com/WHOBszV.png http://i.imgur.com/Tg9x7nQ.png 15:55:52 I used digging to get in 15:55:54 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 15:56:07 ...that isn't a vault; that's a layout_gridlike quirk 15:56:11 oh 15:56:12 sorry 15:56:16 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 15:56:22 it's sort of vault-like. 16:01:52 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:02:00 -!- iasov has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:02:18 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:04:35 so... was that a bug? 16:04:39 or just a quirk 16:04:41 PleasingFungus: it is still a bug, right 16:04:50 ok. 16:05:34 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:42 PleasingFungus: thanks for the descriptions, btw! 16:09:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:10:17 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:04 :) 16:17:04 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:21 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 16:17:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 16:19:29 -!- Krakhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:34 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 16:23:24 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:24:14 what should i treat as a rough deadline, in terms of submitting tiles for 0.14? 16:24:49 "right about now" 16:25:36 roctavian: i can put them in after it's branched, but generally i try not to 16:25:38 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:26:03 roctavian: well, it depends on whether they are meant to replace other tiles of exactly the same size or not 16:26:52 that is, if they don't change the tile metrics in the resulting PNG they can be merged into a release branch, otherwise not 16:27:00 right, right 16:27:30 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:52 because for some reason stable branchse don't get versioned URLs for tilesheets 16:28:26 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:30:25 mostly just curious. had a few things i wanted to finish for 0.14 but i have a lot of work right now. i'll just wait until after the tournament to work on things 16:32:05 -!- yokelz has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:14 -!- yokelz has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:08 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:36 -!- floatboth has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:33:37 <|amethyst> SamB: it's not just webtiles 16:34:02 hmm? 16:34:04 <|amethyst> SamB: it's a problem for local tiles too, if they install 0.14.1 over top 0.14-b0 16:34:25 I thought it was a cache-related thing 16:34:46 <|amethyst> I believe there are also tile enums in various places in the save 16:34:50 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:25 <|amethyst> the browser cache thing affects new games too; the saved tile enum thing only matters for transferred saves 16:36:17 <|amethyst> I guess really, adding tile enums in -beta isn't so bad 16:36:28 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:46 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:04 <|amethyst> because the browser cache thing is the only issue, and that cache expires eventually anyway 16:37:09 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:23 <|amethyst> the old-saves-looking-funny thing is more of an issue between 0.14.0 and 0.14.1 16:37:52 -!- Escalator has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:54 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 16:39:47 <|amethyst> See jpeg's section of docs/develop/save_compatibility.txt for more information on the local tiles issue 16:40:22 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:32 somebody fixed it at least part of the way, though 16:40:43 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:40:46 <|amethyst> yeah, I was going to say, a lot more of that stuff is recomputed now than when that was written 16:40:51 used to be i had to make clean constantly to fix it 16:41:07 -!- N78291 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:10 <|amethyst> ? 16:41:51 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:41:54 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 16:42:10 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:42:33 until 0.13 or so if you edited tiles in certain ways and then rebuilt, it wouldn't update any of the offsets 16:42:44 and you'd get tiles off by half and so on 16:42:57 and you had to run make clean in order to fix it 16:43:26 hmm, I'm remembering some kind of makefile-related fix in that area ... 16:43:31 ontoclasm: I think I was the person that did that fix; I definitely remember fixing something tiles-related. 16:43:36 yeah 16:44:50 oh 16:44:54 %git 5d32d4d 16:44:55 07Grunt02 * 0.11-a0-3131-g5d32d4d: Allow specification of only one of image or code handling in tilegen. 10(1 year, 8 months ago, 4 files, 80+ 37-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5d32d4d5e985 16:44:56 -!- Celsitudo has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:26 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:27 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:28 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Changing host] 16:45:37 <|amethyst> oh, that's something else 16:45:37 <|amethyst> I think that was your new tile sheet not getting generated, or not going into the correct directory 16:45:37 <|amethyst> so it was using the new tile enums with the old sheet 16:45:38 <|amethyst> the other problem is the inverse, using old saved tile enums with the new sheet 16:45:38 <|amethyst> (the webtiles issue would be similar to ontoclasm's old problem though: new tile enums with the old sheet) 16:45:38 <|amethyst> hm 16:45:38 <|amethyst> what if we stored the metadata in the tilesheet itself 16:45:38 <|amethyst> and eliminated most of the compile-time-generated C++ code? 16:45:38 <|amethyst> with offsets etc 16:45:50 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:45:50 <|amethyst> hm 16:45:58 -!- Nomi_ is now known as Nomi 16:46:06 <|amethyst> freenode just went all special relativity on me 16:46:20 it's a png, you can embed anything you want it in 16:46:22 in it* 16:46:44 <|amethyst> right, but could we do it without making performance suffer too much? 16:47:31 no clue about that 16:47:36 <|amethyst> you'd have to read and parse that stuff at least once, on startup; and you'd have more non-constexpr calculations happening at runtime 16:48:16 <|amethyst> as opposed to having it all calculated once, at compile time 16:48:40 alternately, you could just output a separate plaintext file as you're building the image 16:49:03 but i guess you'd have to load that at runtime too 16:49:35 <|amethyst> yeah, the issues are the same, text file versus PNG block is just an implementation detail 16:49:58 -!- Stelpa has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:06 |amethyst: so basically we'd want to use the same metrics data for JS and C++ frontends? 16:50:23 could you just do some sort of checksum when building to see if the image is the same as it was when the offsets were calculated? 16:50:33 and then rebuild if not? 16:50:55 -!- _wh1te has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:51:03 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:01 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 16:53:51 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 16:54:40 <|amethyst> SamB_: yeah, we currently generate both javascript and C++ code 16:55:27 so, how would we eliminate tile enums anyway? 16:56:07 <|amethyst> Hm... yeah, enum mismatches would still be a problem 16:56:55 <|amethyst> I guess that would only solve offset/size mismatches 16:57:34 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:12 oh, one thing before i go btw -- orc sorceror and high priest need auto-rim disabled 17:01:57 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:02:15 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:02:38 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:02:39 |amethyst: could almost avoid it by using the names instead of the numbers to match tile enums to metrics, except that enums that were missing from the tilesheets would have no corresponding imagery ... 17:03:47 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:03:50 ah damnit, stupid rims 17:04:21 one day i'm gonna go through and remove the rim thing comepletely 17:04:26 completely* 17:04:44 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:05:10 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:05:19 one day we should probably remove the .elf from that filename ... 17:07:38 * gammafunk holds back a bad joke about removing Elf... 17:08:38 -!- andrewhl has quit [Quit: andrewhl] 17:09:50 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 17:10:19 -!- diazepan has quit [Quit: diazepan] 17:10:32 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:11:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:11:47 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.14-a0-3506-g64a858d: Fix orcish rims 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=64a858d6f0a4 17:16:05 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:20:59 <|amethyst> elliptic: any new milestones we need for tournament stuff? I know we talked about unique_seen or such, anything else? 17:21:33 <|amethyst> for that matter, is there any information it would be good to record during the tournament for 0.15 design purposes? 17:21:39 not sure at the moment, still need to pick banners and stuff 17:21:56 uniq.seen seems like it might be useful for stats purposes regardless of tourney though 17:26:21 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:26:58 <|amethyst> I'd be kind of interested in turning on more sections by default in server dumps 17:27:13 <|amethyst> or maybe doing two dumps in parallel, normal and full 17:27:46 <|amethyst> but then again, collecting and grepping dumps is quite painful compared to using sequell 17:27:46 -!- Laraso has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:45 <|amethyst> action counts would be kind of useful to run statistics on, for example 17:28:56 <|amethyst> and spells known at death 17:29:06 those are on by default, no? 17:29:14 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:29:27 <|amethyst> yeah, that was in reference to the pain of grepping 17:29:30 right 17:30:01 according to options_guide.txt, the only dump_order things that aren't on by default are turns_by_place, kills_by_place, vaults 17:30:23 <|amethyst> I guess vaults is the only one missing that I'd really like to have 17:30:27 I've never really found the first two very enlightening myself, yeah 17:31:01 <|amethyst> monster generation/kill stats would be nice but that would be a lot of data 17:31:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:31:30 <|amethyst> I do note all monster sightings and kills in my own games 17:31:41 wow 17:31:43 could have a .vaults file parallel to the .lst, .txt, .map files 17:32:01 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, that might be useful 17:32:33 other data of course could be interesting too, but would require some work in figuring out exactly what to grab 17:32:35 -!- GoblinBomb has quit [Client Quit] 17:32:43 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:38 <|amethyst> Would known spells be reasonable to include in the logfile, or do you think that's too long? 17:33:48 <|amethyst> to make things more sequellable 17:34:03 <|amethyst> (logfile only, not milestones) 17:34:26 <|amethyst> I guess maybe it would be useful in milestones too, but that seems like an awful lot of extra data 17:34:49 I think it would be fine, though just "memorized at game end" wouldn't necessarily be best I think 17:35:01 maybe "memorized at game end or cast at some point" 17:36:14 <|amethyst> or maybe I shouldn't worry about the amount of extra data when ttyrecs are many many times larger 17:36:38 <|amethyst> though it's more the constant fetching by the bots that I'm concerned about there 17:37:14 yeah 17:38:18 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:45 a simple list of spells seems like a reasonable enough use of space though, and there are actually a couple of fields that should be removed anyway sometime, like fifteenskills 17:42:59 (added for tourney purposes, not used for a while) 17:44:09 <|amethyst> what about complete skill levels? 17:44:56 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:53 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:06 that would be a bit bulky for the main logfile I think... maybe best would be to actually write two logfiles/milestonefiles, and put stuff like complete skill levels or other detailed stats in the second one only 17:46:16 <|amethyst> hm 17:46:29 <|amethyst> sounds like a 0.15 thing :) 17:48:31 -!- G-Flex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 17:48:48 yeah... for 0.14 I think probably we should just stick with maybe adding a couple of new fields and/or writing .vaults files in the morgue directory 17:51:54 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:09 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:11 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 17:52:29 -!- orcus has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:28 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-3507-g0d34562: Fix and simplify handling of ll_RR format for translations. 10(78 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0d345628b0de 17:57:28 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-3508-g01f32f4: Rewrap descriptions. 10(76 minutes ago, 9 files, 138+ 136-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=01f32f4e25b5 17:57:28 03Translators02 {galehar} 07* 0.14-a0-3509-g488b3d4: [Transifex] Sync. 10(16 minutes ago, 189 files, 1850+ 15039-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=488b3d401eec 17:57:30 <|amethyst> johnstein: sizzell patch to not announce an upcoming new milestone https://github.com/neilmoore/sizzell/commit/f97c86d 17:57:30 <|amethyst> TZer0: sizzell patch to not announce an upcoming new milestone https://github.com/neilmoore/sizzell/commit/f97c86d 17:57:35 <|amethyst> Napkin: sizzell patch (should apply to gretell) to not announce an upcoming new milestone https://github.com/neilmoore/sizzell/commit/f97c86d 17:58:47 |amethyst: what would it take to be able to query when a player encountered a specific vault and at least know the turncount? 17:59:18 -!- _replay has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:59:42 gammafunk: define "encounter" 18:00:00 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 18:00:09 ideally "walked in" 18:00:27 -!- Henzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:29 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:00:42 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:00:48 neat new milestone! 18:00:48 -!- Sizzell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:57 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:59 -!- xFleury has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:00 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:01:08 <|amethyst> not implemented yet, until the bots are updated :) 18:01:10 I will make the fix later tonight |amethyst 18:01:19 gammafunk: well, adding a turncount for that to the "vaults" dump_order is certainly doable, at least in theory 18:01:41 yeah 18:02:06 and if we then put that stuff in a .vaults file, you would at least be able to look up that 18:02:29 what's to go in a .vaults for with the current plans? 18:02:47 the vaults generated for a not-finished game? 18:02:51 gammafunk: no 18:02:56 finished games only 18:03:02 otherwise we leak information to players 18:03:26 yeah, wasn't sure what the purpose was or where it would live permission-wise 18:03:44 it's just in case they don't have vault in their morgue dumps enabled, then 18:03:47 yes 18:03:48 <|amethyst> it would have to live in the save until the game is over 18:03:51 since it isn't a default 18:04:22 it would live in the save, yeah... like action_counts 18:05:01 hrm, I'm motivated to make this happen, but I wonder, how could we query this information in a sane way 18:05:32 as in, we see the .vaults file and the first turn where the player inhabited a square in the vault (if any) 18:05:58 but how to we query that information without downloading them all 18:05:59 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:18 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:39 well, this is where the stuff I was saying earlier with writing two logfiles comes in 18:07:16 and then you just have to download one file from each server and parse that (or get sequell or another bot to parse it) 18:08:22 oh ok, so the second logfile has these additional milestones we don't normally see, but could query 18:09:06 additional fields, yes 18:09:44 though we might not want bots to grab these much larger logfile files too frequently because of server load 18:10:06 <|amethyst> and the scoring scripts can ignore them 18:10:21 <|amethyst> the announcment bots, too 18:11:05 is this going to make the milestone files super huge? 18:11:35 johnstein: they should still be tiny compared with ttyrecs, as |amethyst observed earlier 18:11:51 <|amethyst> the entire logfile for CSZO trunk is 184 MiB 18:11:51 maybe I should start with a patch to add this information to saves (for 0.15, of course), but I wonder if there's some generalize format I should use 18:11:56 like a hash table 18:12:19 yea. and I guess we aren't compressing them yet (like the ttyrecs) so I guess no reason for alarm 18:12:31 <|amethyst> so about 100 MiB or so a year per server? 18:12:46 how much more data would you think we will see? 18:13:06 is it just "seen"? 18:13:25 well, that's going in the main log file 18:13:26 well, we would be putting various stats in this second logfile/milestonefile 18:13:29 <|amethyst> right now it's just uniq.seen which is nothing major 18:13:47 <|amethyst> johnstein: probably not double the size of the existing logfiles 18:13:52 ah, so that's not going into the existing log file? 18:13:58 gammafunk: what isn't? 18:14:10 uniq.seen 18:14:12 currently we only have one logfile, everything else is theoretical :P 18:14:32 that is a new milestone, which should increase the size of the milestone files by a bit 18:14:37 yeah, that's what I thought, but johnstein's question confused me 18:14:41 !lm * recent 18:14:43 2997081. [2014-03-25 23:14:18] tlatlagkaus the Scratcher (L6 FeTm) killed Natasha on turn 4396. (D:3) 18:14:44 !lm * recent uniq 18:14:47 1368957. [2014-03-25 23:14:18] tlatlagkaus the Scratcher (L6 FeTm) killed Natasha on turn 4396. (D:3) 18:14:48 <|amethyst> yeah, that would be a tiny bit 18:14:55 hm 18:15:00 <|amethyst> hm 18:15:04 <|amethyst> really? 18:15:10 I guess uniq.seen is actually pretty large increase, yeah 18:15:18 <|amethyst> hmm 18:15:24 I forgot that uniques are actually a substantial proportion of milestones 18:15:37 so it would increase size of milestone files by 50% 18:16:06 !lm * recent uniq s=verb 18:16:10 |amethyst: if I wanted to add "map encountered and first turn the player inhabited a square on that map" to the save, any recommendations on how to do that in general 18:16:11 1368963 milestones for * (recent uniq): 1368963x uniq 18:16:14 !lm * recent uniq s=noun 18:16:22 1368964 milestones for * (recent uniq): 98420x Ijyb, 69943x Jessica, 64063x Sigmund, 58147x Terence, 57072x Crazy Yiuf, 51190x Blork the orc, 51012x Eustachio, 48633x Edmund, 45989x Dowan, 45823x Duvessa, 41212x Pikel, 39090x Grinder, 35117x Menkaure, 33750x Prince Ribbit, 31159x Joseph, 26436x Grum, 25983x Psyche, 25621x Maurice, 24933x Erica, 24873x Fannar, 24479x Harold, 24021x Erolcha, 22398x ... 18:16:32 !lm * recent s=verb 18:16:38 2997100 milestones for * (recent): 1368964x uniq, 499018x br.enter, 192981x br.exit, 174116x br.end, 167526x god.worship, 164009x ghost, 152663x begin, 64089x rune, 45534x god.maxpiety, 32620x zig, 27012x abyss.enter, 21021x br.mid, 20592x abyss.exit, 15125x shaft, 9595x death, 7507x god.renounce, 6031x uniq.ban, 5779x monstrous, 5661x orb, 4330x god.mollify, 4083x uniq.pac, 2399x crash, 2133x zig... 18:16:48 will need functionality for crawl to know where the vaults are post level generation, but that's doable 18:17:05 just not sure how to actually story the data aside from some hash table in the player class 18:17:13 s/story/store/ 18:17:16 <|amethyst> gammafunk: make you.vault_list a more complex data structure 18:17:24 IMO we need to make uniques less common to compensate 18:17:31 ah, didn't knkow we had that, ok thanks 18:17:37 that was definitely suggested anyway 18:17:44 |amethyst: how large is milestonefile compared to logfile nowadays? 18:17:53 yeah reducing unique placement a good idea 18:17:56 <|amethyst> gammafunk: and write save compat code to convert old stuff into new 18:18:08 |amethyst: always, always save compat :p 18:18:16 <|amethyst> elliptic: oh right, I was measuring the wrong thing 18:18:32 <|amethyst> milestones are quite a bit bigger, 614 MiB in 1.5 years on CSZO for trunk 18:18:47 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:19:00 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:19:02 <|amethyst> yeah, so maybe that's not good 18:19:12 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-3509-g488b3d4 (34) 18:19:17 I guess that means it would be cheaper spacewise to just add a logfile field for completed games that lists all uniques who have been generated but not killed 18:19:25 though that gives less information of course 18:19:52 just need to start compressing stones and log files :p 18:20:44 New branch created: uniq.seen (1 commit) 18:20:44 03|amethyst02 07[uniq.seen] * 0.14-a0-3510-gef1610c: New milestone uniq.seen. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef1610c883cd 18:21:41 -!- Moanerette has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:23:20 or I guess I mean uniques who have been seen but not killed 18:23:49 could add that to milestones even, since it should usually be pretty small 18:24:06 .!lm . x=living_uniques 18:24:41 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:06 that would be nearly as much information for a small fraction of the space cost, I think 18:25:18 -!- ldf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:04 (obviously a bit trickier to code, since you have to keep track of this list in the save) 18:26:28 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:35 maybe uniques who have been seen but not killed/pacified/banished/slimified 18:29:05 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:06 -!- Ketsa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 18:29:35 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:12 hrm, looks like I'll have to create a new global FixedArray to store this informations 18:32:18 *information 18:33:13 oh, maybe in map information 18:33:21 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I think usually 'you' is preferred to global 18:33:58 <|amethyst> with the map info would work, but then you have to walk the save to get the dump 18:34:18 <|amethyst> and you need to do something to preserve the info from deleted levels like Pan or portal vaults 18:34:40 <|amethyst> since most in-memory map info is per-level 18:35:12 <|amethyst> s/is per-level/only describes the current level/ 18:36:23 well maybe I'm confused, but I need to know for each cell on the loaded map, what vault did it come from 18:36:29 <|amethyst> e.g. we have you.uniq_map_names and env.level_uniq_maps, the latter of which is only for the current level (and is marshalled/unmarshalled when the level is) 18:36:32 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:53 <|amethyst> gammafunk: ah 18:37:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I was thinking you'd store just a list of vaults and coordinates but I guess that's hard to query at runtime 18:37:53 in my mind I'd only put stuff into you when the player moved and found (by checking said global fixedarray) that they had moved onto a map 18:38:30 oh I see what you mean, I hadn't thought of that 18:38:31 <|amethyst> yeah, then a new array in crawl_environment would be fine 18:38:32 <|amethyst> vgrid 18:38:43 is performance an issue there? 18:38:56 it could be used for other things, potentially, but that's a big array 18:39:02 <|amethyst> I'd worry most about memory 18:39:17 <|amethyst> it would be better if there were some way to store the grid numerically 18:39:18 yeah, memory I should say, not "performance" 18:39:29 <|amethyst> build a list of maps at game start, and index into that 18:39:44 <|amethyst> I guess that's a problem when you transfer 18:40:24 <|amethyst> hm 18:41:26 <|amethyst> you mentioned hashes 18:41:42 <|amethyst> you could use char *s and just make sure you deduplicate at install time 18:42:14 <|amethyst> (err, installing the vault into the level I mean) 18:42:46 <|amethyst> I guess that makes memory management a little trickier... you could use a shared_ptr instead 18:44:22 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:46:32 are you saying having a fixed 2-d array of chars that uniquely identify the vault 18:46:54 <|amethyst> no, I'm saying to use C strings (char pointers) rather than string objects 18:47:12 <|amethyst> and to use the same pointer for different cells of the same vault 18:47:18 <|amethyst> then it's only 8 bytes per cell 18:47:25 <|amethyst> plus the list of vault names 18:48:19 right yeah, shouldn't have said array of chars 18:48:53 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 18:51:19 -!- beogh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:53 I'll look into shared_ptr. I'm okay with using free/malloc when need be but it's nice if we use more abstracted memory management, I guess 18:55:43 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:55:55 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:20 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:32 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:53 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:02:19 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:03:44 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:04:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:04:36 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:13 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:18 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:45 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:12:16 -!- BanquosGhost has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:12:58 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:26 -!- User_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:42 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:14 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:15:40 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:23 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19:17 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:19:26 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:05 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 19:23:08 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:12 -!- SamB_ is now known as SamB 19:27:53 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:56 -!- Netmonmatt has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:38 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:31 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:45:21 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 19:45:27 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:06 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:08 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:29 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 19:52:29 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:32 -!- Ququman_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:32 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:35 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:36 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:56 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:58:07 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:59 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:00:59 -!- MisterEarlybird has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:01:28 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:42 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:17 -!- Nomi has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:20 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:31 -!- namad7 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:52 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:11:11 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 20:13:07 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:42 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 20:16:28 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 20:17:43 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:55 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all!] 20:19:42 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:24:25 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:27 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 20:26:43 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:00 FR unrand bow of distortion 20:30:09 or some other ranged launcher 20:30:21 Grunt made one once 20:30:34 what meany removed it? 20:30:43 oh, he never added it 20:30:46 just wrote one 20:31:42 I wanted to see how powerful it was. 20:32:00 Turns out it was a lot more than merely quite powerful. 20:32:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:32:43 put it on something awful like a sling 20:33:05 slings are good 20:33:16 are they? 20:33:18 are they really? 20:33:29 compared to a demon trident? 20:33:43 just bring back hand crossbows 20:33:43 yes 20:34:00 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34:05 how can we bring back hand crossbows if darts go away 20:34:17 hand crossbows would be the reason for darts to exist 20:34:19 clearly 20:34:21 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:34:27 fr tomahawk launcher 20:34:35 it's like a hand crossbow but uses tomahawks 20:34:48 Same mechanism as axe traps, I presume. 20:34:58 fr tomahawk launcher that doesnt need to be equipped 20:35:00 rip axe traps 20:35:10 and doesnt take an inventory slot 20:35:12 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:12 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 20:35:12 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:13 http://i.imgur.com/fE3OwKw.jpg 20:35:18 and every character starts with one 20:35:23 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:35:33 sounds op. 20:35:44 well it would do the damge dmg as throwing them 20:35:50 *same dmg 20:46:05 -!- Rotatell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:16 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 20:46:36 !tell |amethyst Rotatell should be ready to go for the new seen milestone. thanks 20:46:36 johnstein: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 20:46:59 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:48:51 Aim: a pale draconian, wielding a glowing dire flail, wearing a cloak and 20:48:51 wearing an amulet of clarity (berserk) 20:49:19 maybe it put the amulet on after going berzerk? 20:49:21 does that work? 20:49:41 that would seem problematic too 20:49:50 <|amethyst> how did it go berserk? 20:49:50 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:49:56 moth of wrath 20:50:02 well you can go berserk regardless if you have clarity. i wasnt watching but i assume since it was zot:5 it was from a moth which means it wasnt intentional berserk 20:50:26 and i saw wheals mentioning something about reporting it so my assumptions probably correct 20:50:33 maybe monsters consider it intentional! they really want to berserk you 20:51:28 I think a lot of jewellery doesn't actually do anything when worn by monsters 20:51:39 <|amethyst> clarity does work for confusion 20:52:35 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3510-g88ed826: Rescale Ashenzari piety gain (elliptic) 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88ed826b6362 20:52:35 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3511-ge6afcca: Increase the number of curse scrolls from Ashenzari sacrifices 10(53 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e6afcca4b416 20:52:35 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3512-gf874658: Reduce loot in a bailey 10(85 minutes ago, 1 file, 14+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f8746589b916 20:52:37 Clarity was one of the amulets I implemented for monsters way back when, yes. 20:52:50 Clearly I missed an edge case. 20:52:52 also monsters probably shouldn't pick up and put on stuff like -3 rings of evasion, but they do (I don't know if it actually hurts their evasion) 20:52:56 <|amethyst> I can kind of see the arguments for not blocking "unintentional" berserk, since it's often good for the monster 20:53:31 <|amethyst> yeah, ring of evasion isn't implemented for monsters 20:53:37 oh no MarvinPA i hope you didnt nerf hexagon bailey 20:53:48 MarvinPA: good thing i got the bailey already this game 20:53:52 simmarine: i think it's line bailey 20:53:57 <|amethyst> probably monster clarity should block enslavement at least 20:53:58 good 20:53:59 simmarine: don't worry that one is intact 20:54:02 i nerfed that last version 20:54:05 yes 20:54:09 now it has stuff not as good 20:54:10 but still good! 20:54:15 still one of my favorite maps to play 20:55:18 is hexagon bailey warlord bailey? 20:55:57 yeah 20:56:27 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 20:57:40 that one can still have 2 exp which it probably should not be able to have 20:57:55 writing like a whole 4 subst lines for that previous commit is me all vaulted out though 20:57:55 ugh, those subst lines 20:57:59 hi 20:58:12 hello 20:58:24 i was going to doublecheck assuming there was some better way! but then i didn't 20:58:29 is there still an ice cave that can have 4 potions of exp in some random place before the end 20:58:54 well, you could have just put the odds for the best item in those stacks in the nsubst rather than a subst before it 21:00:41 elliptic: ice_cave_small_giant apparently does still have ridiculous good potion drops in a place far away from the big fight, yes 21:01:01 !vault ice_cave_small_giant 21:01:01 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/icecave.des;hb=HEAD#l481 21:01:35 yeah, that one 21:01:49 that's a lot of hs 21:06:51 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:21 -!- Reign_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:15:18 twice the weight of benemut 21:17:18 default weight is 10 21:18:20 guess the exp there can just be replaced with heal wounds or something since it already has weird cold res aux armour stuff 21:20:17 tenofswords: btw you should totally go through every vault and make them all consistently use one of "/ \" or "/\" at the ends of lines 21:20:18 |amethyst: re Debian, Nappy is probably in the best position to comment as to what was going on there, but I can look into how that works otherwise. 21:20:31 that seems like a highly productive thing to do 21:20:47 !send MarvinPA productivity 21:20:48 Sending productivity to MarvinPA. 21:22:34 sometimes it's inconsistent even within the same vault! 21:22:56 s??chris patches[des 21:22:57 chris_patches[2/10]: speed 11 things: ugly things (ok), sphinx || speed weird things: tengu and tengu dudes, snapping turtle 21:23:16 ??chris patches[4 21:23:16 chris patches[4/10]: levdes todos: \ and 1-headed desRange and :luaOtherOther -- ideally make / an implicit line continuation in .des format instead 21:23:22 could implement that 21:28:15 -!- Staplegun is now known as sgun 21:28:21 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:33 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:51 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:32:02 tenofswords: oh nsubst is even more complicated than i thought it was 21:32:16 i didn't realise it handled : vs = stuff too 21:33:03 not that that matters in this case but i am learning exciting things from docs, hurrah 21:38:02 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:38:43 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:41:13 I know I cram a lot of things per line and have too many lines but if some of my percieved complexity obssessions are just due to not knowing how vault headers themselves work... <_< >_> 21:43:11 No message for finding gateways leading out of the Abyss. by wheals 21:43:23 The lazy dev approach. 21:44:48 well i've always claimed to know nothing about vaults! imo even if i did i would still not be good at unpicking a million stacked substs though 21:44:56 well, the lazy non-dev approach would be no report 21:45:31 i was a lazy non-dev for a long time, which is why i hadn't 21:45:33 at least most heavy vault randomization is just layout stuff? 21:48:00 probably the terrifying stuff in twisted.des is way worse than any of the heavily randomised encompass vaults anyway 21:48:23 I tried to figure out how it worked! but i'd never been in travel.cc before and it looked scary 21:48:27 An aura of fear fills twisted.des! You are terrified of it! 21:48:30 by which i just mean "that one vault in twisted.des" probably 21:49:02 dpeg_arrival_water_fire? that being the first vault in the file is a pretty good warning 21:49:24 yes, actually scrolling through it looks like everything else is way tamer 21:49:25 some day I might make that a sane shuffle instead of a psychotic mess but 21:50:14 oh, there's also nagdon_arrival_zigzag_paths 21:50:43 mmmmm 21:50:46 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:08 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 21:51:30 that is definitely quite something too 21:51:41 .des book ends 21:51:51 (that reminds me, I keep forgetting to deglass nagdon_arrival_double_spiral) 21:53:19 Clarity does not block *rage for monsters by johnnyzero 21:54:36 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:07 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:30 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:09:29 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:54 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11495 22:22:15 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:46 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:23 -!- Sorbius__ is now known as Sorbius 22:24:04 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:20 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:21 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:33:21 ...burn in hell. all of you. 22:33:52 i think your race suggestion does not have enough gimmicks 22:34:35 It doesn't have any. it's simple and logical. 22:34:41 !learn add bcadren i think your race suggestion does not have enough gimmicks 22:34:41 bcadren[7/7]: i think your race suggestion does not have enough gimmicks 22:44:02 Yeesh. Why so critical of everything? 22:44:54 I get constructive criticism...but...let's move this because it's a joke. Seriously? ...are you trying to piss me off? 22:44:58 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:49 <|amethyst> Bcadren: you throw out so many proposals that taking the time to critique every one is exhausting 22:45:54 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 22:46:23 <|amethyst> Bcadren: pick one, focus on it, listen to the critique, and adapt it to keep the theme while addressing the criticism 22:47:17 <|amethyst> Bcadren: and ontoclasm maybe didn't say it in a very diplomatic way, but a recurring problem with your proposals is that they are too complicated 22:47:33 <|amethyst> this tree race has more special mechanics than djinn did 22:47:40 <|amethyst> and look how well that one turned out :/ 22:49:17 I just...worked out logically mostly. It was trying to expand on what someone said in the Jotunn thread...Jotunn was too complicated, make a version of just a giant species and someone else thought permatree or voluntary tree on tap would be nice. I tied those two together and ditched the rest to make a tree race. 22:50:41 that proposal, like many of your others, is ridiculously overcomplicated and appears be focused almost entirely around flavour (unimportant) over gameplay (important) 22:51:00 i would also suggest that calling people assholes and telling them to burn in hell is unlikely to make them inclined to pay attention to your proposals 22:51:10 i wasn't trying to be mean about it, sorry 22:51:14 <|amethyst> One nice thing is the ring thing, but I'm not sure if that's intentional 22:51:30 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 22:51:34 <|amethyst> the extra ring slots make up for the fact that you have no armour 22:51:47 I put that in to make up for the...you finished before me. 22:51:48 <|amethyst> you say no body armour, but large races already can't wear the other stuff 22:51:49 kind of reminds me of the giant orange brain proposal 22:52:29 Bcadren: i feel you should be able to describe everything important about a species, or indeed any game-thing, in one sentence 22:52:35 <|amethyst> the weapon restrictions are overly complicated 22:52:42 e.g, deep elves: elves that are frail, but good at magic 22:52:43 <|amethyst> just say "2H only" and be done with it 22:52:52 yours takes up more than my entire screen 22:52:58 <|amethyst> if necessary we can add crap 2H weapons for them to start with (and already have scythes) 22:53:26 I thought a huge race (like dragon sized) either couldn't wear any armor or would need new items added for them (like Naga bardings)...and thought extra rings was easier than having some 'giant armor' new items. 22:54:06 <|amethyst> yeah, I think no armour + extra rings is not unreasonable, though implementationwise it's some work to generalise the octopode stuff further 22:54:35 <|amethyst> rF-- is probably unnecessary 22:54:48 <|amethyst> then again, if it gets all the plant resistances :/ 22:55:20 <|amethyst> growing fruit and summoning creatures at will are not really good race abilities 22:55:24 Plant resistances is about the same as undead...except dispel undead doesn't do anything. 22:55:40 <|amethyst> "synchronizes well with Fedhas" really means "is completely broken with Fedhas" 22:56:09 <|amethyst> then again, there are some vaults out there that are completely broken with Fedhas, so... 22:56:36 <|amethyst> (or at least that introduce great variance in the amount of fruit you can see in a game) 22:56:50 -!- Pisano has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57:08 i was going to say something about the healing but it might actually be interesting 22:57:24 It's a dependable fruit source, though probably not brokenly many...I've found 100+ fruits in a vault before...one of the ones with a lot is even a Fedhas altar vault. I think dpeg stated those were made specifically to tempt people to change their godchoice midgame. 22:57:35 making them no-food but require standing on food to heal, though that's getting a bit close to vampires 22:57:54 <|amethyst> Bcadren: but this would be pushing a single god choice at the start of the game 22:58:40 I was thinking either that...or stand on water or just a set number of times per level...it's just which is balanced. 22:58:56 <|amethyst> yeah, basing it on XP could work 22:58:56 -!- simmarine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:05 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:22 <|amethyst> but anyway 22:59:36 |amethyst true...You could say Deep Dwarves push being Makhleb or Elyvilon from the beginning (lack of naturally healing pulls you towards those). 22:59:36 <|amethyst> I would say: focus on "big" 23:00:10 <|amethyst> have the major benefits of the race be things related to being big 23:00:20 <|amethyst> since those are the major penalties 23:00:24 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:00:37 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:54 <|amethyst> (maybe I'm wrong there, though; focusing on "tree" with "big" as the penalty could work) 23:00:56 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:19 Bcadren: that is a part of the reason a lot of people dislike DD's design :P 23:02:11 (fr replace DD with gnomes) 23:02:16 <|amethyst> or Trog (or Kiku when you were guaranteed Vampiric Draining) 23:02:20 (we'll need to do something about that wheals person first though) 23:02:36 <|amethyst> I guess with Yred you have to wait too long 23:03:17 TAG_MINOR_VERSION_GRUNT_NO_MORE 23:03:30 rip 23:03:48 is there a long-term plan to remove all backgrounds that start you out worshiping a god? 23:04:08 "is there a long-term plan" 23:04:08 I really love the damage shaving aspect of DD 23:04:16 Any question starting with that can generally be answered with "no" <_< 23:04:21 I didn't realize that when I started my last DD game 23:04:22 AK and CK aren't gonna go for obvious reasons, Be probably not for being popular 23:04:25 !hs . DD-- 23:04:25 2. johnstein the Slayer (L27 DDBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-12-12 06:18:26, with 1427293 points after 106589 turns and 22:03:39. 23:04:36 johnstein: my DDBe completely forgot about recharging until sometime in Zot. 23:04:37 hah, ty grunt 23:04:47 !lg . ddbe 23:04:47 1. SGrunt the Axe Maniac (L27 DDBe of Trog), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2012-08-10 23:39:58, with 1553922 points after 75621 turns and 4:42:48. 23:04:48 <|amethyst> wheals: we removed MD, I don't see why not :) 23:04:48 and the devteam have removed no popular things ever 23:04:57 damn, you beat me 23:05:14 <|amethyst> but Be is also nice easymode 23:05:19 really more for being friendly to new players, yeah 23:05:21 I just remember when I was talking about how to make a Fed starting god (Farmer) several discouraged me because they said that they were trying to move away from backgrounds that started with a god 23:05:22 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 23:05:29 |amethyst: remind me to give you a couple of days to get the nostalgia branch ready before 1 April (I'll probably push it somewhere live around the time I do the branching) 23:05:39 <|amethyst> !lg * 0.13 s=char / won 23:05:40 906/134173 games for * (0.13): 64/3741x GrFi [1.71%], 49/1991x GrBe [2.46%], 46/7137x MiFi [0.64%], 21/9912x HOFi [0.21%], 21/3750x MiBe [0.56%], 16/1972x DEFE [0.81%], 12/2063x DECj [0.58%], 12/1573x GrEE [0.76%], 11/454x DDBe [2.42%], 11/489x GrGl [2.25%], 10/1042x CeHu [0.96%], 10/2568x SpEn [0.39%], 9/155x MiAM [5.81%], 9/263x HOGl [3.42%], 8/1378x KoBe [0.58%], 8/873x DsBe [0.92%], 8/1311x Vp... 23:05:41 |amethyst So you are suggesting something more like a Stone Giant player race that's exactly like enemy stone giants instead of being more complicated and tying together Ice/Stone/Fire giant with some myth stuff (what Jotunn was). 23:05:53 <|amethyst> !lg * 0.13 s=char / won o=% 23:05:54 906/134173 games for * (0.13): 1/7x MiVM [14.29%], 2/15x TrAE [13.33%], 2/15x CeNe [13.33%], 3/28x GhDK [10.71%], 1/10x MiAs [10.00%], 2/21x CeWr [9.52%], 1/11x MfAE [9.09%], 1/11x TeHe [9.09%], 3/34x CeHe [8.82%], 1/12x VpGl [8.33%], 4/49x DDAs [8.16%], 3/38x TrHe [7.89%], 3/39x MfAs [7.69%], 5/67x FeIE [7.46%], 4/55x GrIE [7.27%], 2/28x TrWr [7.14%], 2/28x OgIE [7.14%], 1/15x GhSu [6.67%], 1/15x... 23:05:58 yea, DDBe is part of my alphabetrogging series 23:06:21 was ghdk a nemchoice? 23:06:23 nice and easy 23:06:48 <|amethyst> Bcadren: not exactly like enemy stone giants, no 23:07:17 wheals: I think it was. 23:07:43 <|amethyst> Bcadren: Maybe something other than the mutations 23:08:10 <|amethyst> Bcadren: since demonspawn and draconians both already exist 23:08:32 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:08:49 <|amethyst> Bcadren: or at least something simpler in that respect (not so many choices) 23:09:22 <|amethyst> Bcadren: but more importantly, as MarvinPA was saying: 23:10:11 <|amethyst> Bcadren: choose a few abilities that work together to create good gameplay 23:10:37 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:10:45 <|amethyst> Bcadren: you can use the flavour/theme as inspiration, but flavour is secondary 23:12:10 <|amethyst> Bcadren: (also the blood magic thing has all the issues that came up with djinn and were never fully resolved) 23:12:41 <|amethyst> Bcadren: so also keep in mind what has and hasn't worked in the past, and why 23:12:46 It seems so weird that you say flavour is second, when it feels like it's the best thing about crawl is how the races flavours feel different. 23:13:58 -!- trystero has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:09 <|amethyst> Bcadren: Would it feel that much different if we renamed high elves to "Martians" and changed the tiles and description? 23:14:53 maybe not necessarily martians, but yes what if high elves became something else in flavor but not gameplay 23:15:06 because this is something that comes up every so often infact, renaming high elves 23:15:20 <|amethyst> Bcadren: I think the races feel different more because of their different gameplay than their different flavour 23:16:17 <|amethyst> Flavour is good, don't get me wrong 23:16:21 Bah. DE are the real martians (just look at their death ray use). 23:16:26 It's more like Nagas, Octopodes and Felids...they feel like the flavor came before the mechanics and shaped the mechanics. 23:16:27 HE are half-Martians, obviously!!! 23:17:01 rename high elves hill elms, to keep the abbrev 23:17:17 beogh is still a little weird for me...a god that only one race can worship. 23:17:18 <|amethyst> Bcadren: naga slowness is kind of out of theme if you were basing it purely on flavour 23:17:40 <|amethyst> Bcadren: since snakes are fast 23:18:49 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 23:18:55 Yea...and logic/flavor would dictate spit poison would be more likely to cause temporary blindness than poison. 23:19:10 Bcadren: yeah, flavour can do is provide an initial impetus 23:19:47 *what flavour can do 23:19:51 <|amethyst> flavour can also help make decisions when gameplay isn't affected much one way or another 23:20:15 <|amethyst> or, for that matter, when it is affected much, but the pros and cons balance out 23:20:42 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:50 <|amethyst> Also, keep in mind that we are pretty much full on races 23:23:08 <|amethyst> so for there to be any chance of this going in, something has to come out 23:23:20 what is the reason behind the limit? 23:23:31 <|amethyst> 27 23:23:33 <|amethyst> facetiously 23:23:48 ok. so more of a thematic limit 23:23:48 <|amethyst> really, it's because we don't want to make starting a game too daunting for new players 23:23:50 0.14 is going to have 26... >_> 23:24:12 <|amethyst> and the fact that there are only 26 lowercase letters :) 23:24:25 that's why Trog created NUMBERS! :D 23:24:29 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 23:24:32 <|amethyst> maybe make it so you have to press ž to select Jötunn 23:24:43 Tree form simplified to cut some of the unnecessary; including one thing I mostly added to balance: Plant (all plant resistances, fire weakness); doesn't heal unless roots are in the ground (also its food source); Huge (may only use 2H weapons and Large Shields; all 2H weapons are 1H; no armor, but natural AC and gains extra rings slots with level.) 23:24:46 |amethyst: :ž 23:24:51 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:24:53 |amethyst Nice Norse joke, btw. 23:25:45 johnstein: also backgrounds with gods should mainly exist only if there's a compelling reason to start with that god 23:26:04 no, clearly ž would be the letter for the tree race 23:26:05 dk kinda fails at this in my opinion 23:26:15 !learn add Bcadren <+|amethyst> maybe make it so you have to press ž to select Jötunn 23:26:15 bcadren[8/8]: <+|amethyst> maybe make it so you have to press ž to select Jötunn 23:26:16 but be is a gret example 23:26:17 why's that? 23:26:28 dk 23:26:44 because yred doesn't do much early on 23:26:50 i guess you can make some goblin zombies 23:26:55 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:27:09 <|amethyst> Bcadren: that's more approaching a reasonable proposal size; of course, the proposal itself would be bigger because it would give reasoning, discussion of pros and cons, alternatives. but for the core of the proposal, that's better 23:27:12 but mostly you're identical to a fighter that found an yred altar in temple 23:27:53 the advantage of early fed seemed to be the mushroom men. but having them on D1 is ridiculous. so I nerfed the piety so you wouldn't get your first star till mid/late D2 (where if you are lucky you can find a fed altar anyway) 23:27:59 <|amethyst> Bcadren: I don't know whether nutrition from the ground would work out well in practice, so maybe consider alternatives for that 23:28:26 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:28:29 I feel like some of the things I put up...are so long because I work out a lot of details that usually don't go in until implementation...list a ton of resistances etc. I also tend to leave out -why- I added a lot of things, because it would make the post so long people wouldn't bother reading it. 23:28:45 johnstein: starting gods should have a noticeable effect on gameplay from the very start, AK doesn't really fulfil this but gets by on the fact that it lets new players get an introduction to the abyss 23:29:08 Bcadren: well, the reason those things get worked out at implementation time is because they're less important 23:29:25 than having a solid, interesting core mechanic 23:29:35 yea. that was one reason why I stopped working on my Farmer. the only real advantage was guaranteeing early fed 23:29:38 -!- thedefinite has quit [Quit: Want to be different? Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 23:30:09 MarvinPA Abyssal Knight has the -largest- effect on starts...don't get me started on how good Lugonu invocations are compared to the temple gods. 23:30:18 every race suggestion has a big list of apts, but when you think about the existing races, apts are often the least important parts about how they play 23:30:21 I also gave the Farmer a book of Homesteading: Summon rats, dogs, and sheep|yak|death yak. Also comes with Pesticides (mephitic and poison cloud) and a shovel (Dig) 23:30:43 but then people said how lots of summoning wasn't really all that popular 23:30:50 Bcadren: no, it does not. "the start" means "the first monster you encounter" 23:30:51 and then Dig was removed as a spell 23:30:56 johnstein you implemented Summon Sheep as a spell? 23:31:03 Summon Flock 23:31:12 low levels gave you 1 or 2 sheep 23:31:16 well AK also matters because otherwise most people would never see lucy at all 23:31:18 high levels you could get a death yak 23:31:21 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: I don't know, I think the polearms apt is a bigger part of merfolk playstyle than water is 23:31:34 or a bunch of sheep, which were sorta like butterflies at high levels 23:31:38 it was fun to try to figure out 23:31:40 yeah, that's why i said "often" 23:31:42 but hard to balance 23:31:43 <|amethyst> ontoclasm: then again, +4 is kind of forcing it :) 23:31:54 MarvinPA well...the first monster you encounter...can be a small abomination with Lugonu...allowing you to reach level 3 via kiting before touching the dungeon. :D 23:32:10 anyway, i gotta sleep, uck 23:32:11 -!- Acidburn6 has quit [] 23:32:49 !send sleep ontoclasm 23:32:49 Sending ontoclasm to sleep. 23:34:27 Usually when i post something; it's always been 'this is how I'd implement this idea...with almost everything discussable and a lot of it being just one implementation idea when I want to push the idea more than the specific implementation...like that one thing that I wikied and never taverned. I want to push the idea of having more elemental balance in draconians (instead of 3 fire ones; 1 ice one, etc.) but not necessarily the diff 23:35:58 <|amethyst> cut off at "not necessarily the diffe" 23:36:33 <|amethyst> Bcadren: implementation details are fine 23:36:39 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:45 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:37:00 <|amethyst> Bcadren: what I'm saying is, other than the implementation details, you should be able to sum it up in a paragraph 23:37:06 <|amethyst> maybe even a sentence 23:37:23 different combination of draconians I wrote. (which was 12 instead of 8 types; with all of them having the same stat total; 2 per elemental magic group; 1 each for four different skills) 23:37:24 <|amethyst> merfolk: swim, good with polearms and dodging, bad with armor 23:37:26 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:37:52 <|amethyst> where is this? 23:38:40 <|amethyst> ah, I see it 23:39:33 Actually more than 12 I just brainstormed ideas until I stopped. hah. idea was same number per stat raised (more unpredictability) and same apt. total (no Purple having a far better apt. total than the rest). 23:40:01 -!- schistosoma has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:59 <|amethyst> And it is fine brainstorming 23:42:40 <|amethyst> as a proposal, I'd think about maybe not doubling the number of draconian colours 23:43:06 <|amethyst> also, draconians in particular also have the issue of the monster draconians 23:44:15 <|amethyst> but also, with so many changes, it would be good to justify the changes and new things that aren't related to the two concerns that motivated the proposal 23:45:00 <|amethyst> holy breath, fertile breath, why ctele for grey, etc 23:45:18 <|amethyst> Every new thing in the proposal is something else that has to be implemented for it to work 23:46:16 Holy was because I rather like Pearl Dragons and don't think a player version of it would be too broken. It's also a breath weapon that becomes more useful in late/post game; which is the opposite of most breaths, which are most useful when you first get them. 23:47:32 <|amethyst> I mean, why should we take your proposed changes instead of the bare minimum necessary to solve the problem you point out? 23:47:46 <|amethyst> it's a lot more work for someone to implement all of that 23:48:04 <|amethyst> Not to say that every change has to be incremental, but such things are a lot more likely to happen :) 23:48:27 <|amethyst> you have to find someone willing to implement your idea, after all, if you want chance of it getting it crawl 23:48:52 Bare minimum would probably be changing the current draconians apts. adding 3 (extra ice, air and earth) and cutting either Mottled or Pale 23:48:54 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 28.0/20140314220517]] 23:49:03 <|amethyst> dpeg has a hard enough time getting people to implement things for him, and he's been on the devteam longer than anyone else who's still active :) 23:49:31 my current role at work I have to write requirements for a structural engineering software tool 23:49:37 and man 23:49:37 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:45 Actually that huge of a change came out of dpeg encouraging me to ignore what currently exists and come up with an ideal rather than just mutating things slightly. 23:49:48 <|amethyst> (well, green snark is active, just not on crawl itself) 23:49:55 I feel so dirty that after 2 years, almost all of my cool ideas get hacked down to the minimum requirement 23:50:04 since we have to, you know, show progress 23:50:17 I never dreamed I could lower the bar so much 23:50:54 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:21 <|amethyst> Bcadren: maybe that's not a bad idea; and it is a good level of description for a proposal 23:51:30 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:00 <|amethyst> Bcadren: maybe consider which of the new colours to cut? 23:52:16 makes me think I'm now qualified to write up a good crawl proposal 23:52:30 I just haven't come up with anything novel enough to be interesting, but not too complicated 23:52:51 johnstein: keep playing; that will come to you with experience :) 23:52:53 Fertile and Tele Other breath are probably the easiest to cut/least necessary; but they are also the most interesting. Fertile came out of me joking about butterfly breath and then mutating it into something more serious. Tele Other is just...people never really use that...what if it was free, would they use it? haha 23:52:58 yea 23:53:01 !gamesby 23:53:01 johnstein has played 152 games, between 2012-10-12 01:47:02 and 2014-02-14 06:28:43, won 3 (2.0%), high score 2115770, total score 7926037, total turns 1705454, play-time/day 0:36:53, total time 12d+13:49:49. 23:53:18 <|amethyst> Bcadren: anyway, don't listen to my *game design* advice necessarily, but hopefully I'm not completely off-target in the "how to make your proposal less likely to be rejected" direction 23:53:26 I don't have many games compared to most, so that probably doesn't help. 23:53:37 johnstein: you have more wins than most though! <_< 23:53:51 :P had a lot of good teachers 23:53:52 ...hm 23:53:53 !won 23:53:54 Grunt has won 34 times in 1343 games (2.53%): 1xCeAK 1xDDBe 1xDECj 1xDEFE 1xDgCj 1xDgWn 1xDrMo 1xDsDK 1xDsNe 1xFeCK 1xGhIE 1xGrEE 1xHESk 1xHOHe 1xHOPr 1xHaAs 1xHaWr 1xHuAr 1xKoAM 1xKoBe 1xKoHu 1xMfGl 1xMiFi 1xMuSu 1xNaFi 1xNaTm 1xOgHu 1xOpVM 1xSpEn 1xTeAE 1xTrAM 1xTrWz 1xVSAs 1xVpNe 23:53:55 !won * 23:53:55 and watched a lot of games 23:53:58 <|amethyst> Bcadren: keep in mind that a good part of my professional life has been spent making proposals that are then rejected 23:54:03 and I play very slow 23:54:05 * has won 17025 times in 3062644 games (0.56%): 519xMiFi 447xMiBe 438xSpEn 263xDEFE 256xMDFi 177xKoBe 176xHOPr 170xGrFi 162xDECj 156xMiGl 151xDDEE 145xDDNe 143xHOBe 142xHOFi 139xCeHu 133xDEWz 133xDsBe 131xMfGl 119xDsFi 119xOgBe 114xDDBe 113xMfCr 106xMfIE 105xHEWz 102xDrTm 100xTrMo 99xGrBe 91xDsMo 87xHaBe 85xOgHu 81xSEEE 79xMDBe 79xMuWz 79xVpEn 76xMuSu 76xNaWz 74xDsWz 74xHEAE 73xHECj 72xDsNe 70xFeB... 23:54:11 <|amethyst> Bcadren: the same should be true for you :) 23:54:12 !lg * x=cdist(name) 23:54:16 so it means I invest days and weeks into a character 23:54:25 so I tend to play very conservatively 23:54:26 tele-other breath actually sounds vaguely interesting 23:54:34 distortion breath <_< 23:54:42 (don't actually do that) 23:54:49 <|amethyst> Bcadren: maybe 1/20 ideas on the scale of the draconian proposal end up working out 23:55:10 <|amethyst> Bcadren: and the ones that do are because someone spent a lot of effort figuring out why the other 19 didn't work out 23:55:12 Time limit of 60s exceeded 23:55:17 rip Sequell 23:55:20 :( 23:56:03 <|amethyst> Bcadren: I also recommend finding someone who is willing to implement some of your ideas, so at least you can playtest them 23:56:39 <|amethyst> Bcadren: that's easiest to do if you have something relatively simple like "replace pale draconian with pearl" 23:57:35 <|amethyst> (not that I am proposing replacing pale drac with pearl; that was an example) 23:58:03 <|amethyst> Bcadren: or you could learn some C++ and dive into crawl :) 23:59:49 |amethyst I shouldn't.