00:00:26 beware, it can paralyze and banish 00:01:41 you jerk, no it can't... 00:03:15 distribute a config file that includes all kinds of fun things in the warnings 00:03:24 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:24 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 00:03:24 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 00:03:26 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3332-g06cfa3b (34) 00:03:29 orc wizard can banish. orc priest can paralyze. etc. 00:04:16 orc wizards banish all the time 00:04:31 !lm * abyss.enter noun=orc_wizard 00:04:31 226. [2014-03-16 01:14:31] mcmurder3 the Spear-Bearer (L11 MfGl of Yredelemnul) is cast into the Abyss! (orc wizard) (D:10) 00:05:26 a d:6 hdyra 00:06:06 goblin: beware! this monster can banish 00:06:12 -!- ac13 has quit [] 00:06:22 yesterday I hit o and was cast into the abyss 00:06:31 it was unexpected functionality 00:06:36 Ever hit o and die? 00:06:39 ??autoexplore deaths 00:06:39 autoexplore deaths[1/13]: Deaths occuring during autoexplore or autotravel (at full or near HP). 00:06:42 r??autoexplore deaths 00:06:42 autoexplore_deaths[13/13]: !tv giantbat femo 3 00:06:51 oops 00:06:58 almost tabbed a goliath beetle to death 00:07:07 gammafunk: I've tabbed through enormous slime creatures before. 00:07:54 yeah, we've all tabbed just one tab too much before... 00:08:26 (1) I love new salamanders. (2) I, now, kind of think salamander would make an interesting player race...if it didn't end up being too similar to nagas. 00:08:49 I have a few salamander player race ideas which I may play with at some point. 00:10:17 I think they should absorb fire like the mythological one (making them as much beings of ice as fire) which having an absorb does mean...self-healing via fireballing yourself, which might be OP. 00:10:34 uh 00:11:04 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 00:11:43 they build up enough fire absorption, they spit out an orb of fire 00:12:55 portable healing/mutation machine! 00:13:16 -!- gnum has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14:34 gammafunk damn lol 00:17:06 oh hey, I got one of my overflow temples 00:17:09 wow it's terrible 00:17:14 got to add some spacing around it 00:17:16 which one? 00:19:09 gammafunk_temple_overflow_wave 00:19:21 and there's a bug where it can place a column 00:19:37 the dev who committed that vault for me wasn't very attentive....>_> 00:19:45 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:19:48 solid blame-shifting 00:20:12 how do you query for a vault in git? 00:20:18 -!- Keanan has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:22 !vault gammafunk_temple_overflow_wave 00:20:23 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/altar/overflow.des;hb=HEAD#l2546 00:20:44 can use irc for it; but basically you need to grep if you want to find it 00:20:49 haha. that's pretty straightforward 00:20:58 the command 00:21:05 todo, add TAGS support for des 00:21:13 at least finding by the name shouldn't be hard! 00:21:40 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:23:02 -!- blackcustard has quit [Quit: being stupid, sunstruck, and Dead, flew into the rocketing FIN.] 00:25:00 Grunt: was shadow step range changed? I thought it hit things at edge of LOS at max piety 00:25:49 -!- nixor2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:27:09 -!- wheals has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:44 elliptic: the range is identical to umbra range now. 00:28:23 no it isn't 00:28:31 ...it's supposed to be! 00:29:34 or does it not work on some monsters now? 00:29:46 specifically there was a fire giant 00:29:47 What were you trying to target? 00:30:23 (The requirement atm is that the tile is umbraed in addition to being within your umbra range.) 00:31:35 (clearly elliptic brings out buggy behaviour related to fire giants) 00:31:36 -!- ToastyP has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:53 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:39 oh, that square really isn't in the umbra at max umbra despite being in sight 00:33:06 can we fix that thing with max haloes using 8 instead of sqrt(65) 00:33:16 (preferably by switching to squarelos) 00:33:35 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 00:33:38 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:23 it is intentional but it is also awful for gameplay purposes 00:34:49 and I think the only reason why it is 64 instead of 65 is for pan level identification by floor color a long time ago 00:36:24 probably 00:36:29 ew 00:37:05 current halo behavior dates to 00:37:11 %git 764b2ca 00:37:12 07kilobyte02 * 0.8.0-a0-1244-g764b2ca: Fix a rounding error to make TSO halo look better. 10(3 years, 6 months ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=764b2ca20663 00:37:18 -!- ayutzia has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:29 (though it was already 8 instead of sqrt(65) before then) 00:37:54 and even that commit says 65 would be better :P 00:39:09 I guess currently you get the max right at ****** though, which is good 00:39:33 oh, wait, you don't 00:39:39 you get it at 170 piety for some reason 00:41:11 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:41:54 and before that kb commit, you got max halo at 160 00:42:59 hrm, are there guidelines for using confirmed? This dragon form flight thing will probably need a few commits to clean everything up, and should wait for 0.15, so confirmed seems ok for now? 00:43:08 I should say, confirmed bug report status 00:43:11 Cheibrodos (L8 TeSk) (Bailey) 00:43:22 !crashlog Cheibrodos 00:43:22 Why should it wait for 0.15? 00:43:22 4. Cheibrodos, XL8 TeSk, T:8179 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Cheibrodos/crash-Cheibrodos-20140316-054308.txt 00:43:29 Cheibrodos (L8 TeSk) (Bailey) 00:43:35 It seems like just an interface fix, really 00:43:38 gammafunk: confirmed means "yes this is a thing" 00:43:42 DracoOmega: if you want to fix the various issues, feel free :p 00:43:56 It's not just interface, but also unifying the "panic flight" behaviour 00:44:00 Cheibrodos (L8 TeSk) (Bailey) 00:44:06 and also I've found another oddity 00:44:09 Well, I have enough on my plate currently :P 00:44:10 I thought you just meant in terms of 'not this close to release window' 00:44:13 there are probably more; the flight code needs some simplification 00:45:11 gammafunk: confirmed is basically what you call it when it's not fixed/implemented yet 00:45:21 SamB: ok, so confirmed works here then 00:45:44 DracoOmega: yeah, I'm certainly not going to hold anyone back from making these fixes, but I know it will probably be me anyhow :p 00:46:20 the cycle is: bug fix, game-breaking new content, bug fix, game-breaking new content... 00:46:36 You forgot the game-breaking bugfixes :P 00:47:06 hehe 00:48:42 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:53 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:29 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 00:50:42 Basically my 'plan' at the moment is wait for a few more days of data, take a stab at adjusting the poison quantities in the various places that look off, wait some more days and maybe readjust again (oh, and play some actual games) 00:51:39 Earlygame stats are quick to accrue, but it takes a fair bit longer to smooth out statistical noise for later stuff, sadly 00:53:35 solution: make the game easier ;-P 00:53:52 I noticed that poison breath (esp from gold dragons) seemed to be pretty wimpy. 00:54:17 A bit, yes 00:54:32 Like It would wear off in 1-2 actions (before the clouds had disappeared) 00:55:04 Which seemed a little wacky. 00:55:09 That sounds wrong to me 00:55:12 Regardless 00:55:53 Like, possibly it is too weak, but it should still last far longer than that at present values 00:57:04 -!- sd1989 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:57:29 (I just double-checked in my local copy, and it doesn't seem to wear off nearly that quickly, no) 00:57:43 !message 00:57:43 sd1989: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 00:57:48 !messages 00:57:48 (1/2) dpeg said (2w 4d 9h 4m 1s ago): Many thanks! Your server is listed of course. Report is at http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/DCSS_Survey_summary.pdf 00:58:01 !messages 00:58:02 (1/1) |amethyst said (3d 23h 39m 43s ago): any chance you could update trunk? And 0.14 is coming soon 00:58:08 Yeah isn't happening in my local copy in wizmode either. 00:58:15 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: hurl] 00:58:38 sd1989: do you have plans to automatically rebuild crawl every evening for trunk? 00:58:59 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 00:59:05 gammafunk: k 00:59:36 no, I'm asking if you're planning to do that :) 01:00:14 gammafunk: I mean, I have plan to make automatic updating system today. 01:00:25 oh, that's great then. 01:00:58 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:59 What if...Hall of Blades was removed? And replaced with several possible vaults, like was done to the hive. 01:01:23 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:34 sounds good to me 01:03:11 hrm, I wonder if that actually might be a good place to put my "two-floor portal" thing 01:03:37 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 01:04:11 nrook & I were talking about a mini-zig vault the other day 01:04:12 3 floors 01:04:31 somewhere around early volcano/ice cave difficulty 01:04:35 *portal vault 01:05:03 if I had a dev environment I might try to code something up. maybe once my new computer arrives 01:05:41 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:07:21 Well vaults tend to not require much in the way of a development environment anyhow 01:08:11 portal vaults can have floors now? 01:08:12 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:09:12 idk I'd like to be able to compile the game to actually test 01:09:18 right now I'm on a borrowed laptop 01:09:36 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:09:47 I guess I could get a cloud vm or something? idk 01:10:29 you probably could, yes 01:11:32 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-3333-g6a60d70: Tweak TSO/Dith halo/umbra radii. 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6a60d70b8158 01:11:32 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-3334-g044c1f8: Increase the radii of haloes of some items/monsters from N to sqrt(N^2+1). 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=044c1f8dcfe2 01:11:34 assuming you have some small amount of money 01:11:34 no I gave it all to zin 01:11:34 I don't think Amazon accept GP anyway 01:11:43 this is why we should have elected ron paul (ron paul) 01:15:03 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 01:15:05 elliptic: I just noticed in the last chunk of that last commit: if (ring && ring->special == UNRAND_SHADOWS) 01:15:16 ...which isn't how we check for unrands! 01:15:26 That probably explains that weird gnoll ring bug. 01:16:04 I gather ->special is used for other stuff? 01:16:26 Yes; it's used for things like which tile the item uses and such for normal items. 01:16:54 Something for rods too (I think the recharge rate). 01:21:50 Curse foo scrolls appear in "Items not yet recognized" by n1000 01:27:18 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:08 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:47 !vault hall_of_zot 01:30:47 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/zot.des;hb=HEAD#l2368 01:38:39 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 01:40:51 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:42:07 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.14-a0-3335-gf3034f2: Brighten the roach tile 10(56 seconds ago, 2 files, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3034f286657 01:42:26 -!- ZRN has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:43:49 ontoclasm: the roach has a nose, I just noticed 01:43:57 it has mandibles 01:44:40 it really looks like a kind of humanoid face with a nose 01:44:43 even if I zoom in 01:44:48 I'm not complaining either! 01:45:07 oh, I see it now 01:45:24 wow, it's 50-50 01:45:29 you can either see a nose or mandibles 01:46:14 -!- Krakhan has quit [] 01:47:20 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 01:48:06 -!- Krakhan has quit [Client Quit] 01:48:20 shit i fucked it up 01:49:18 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 01:49:45 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 01:52:24 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.14-a0-3336-g0242c21: Fix a rim 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0242c21c59fc 01:57:03 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:57:09 good tile 01:57:26 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 01:58:07 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:00:30 * ontoclasm shrugs 02:00:33 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 02:01:07 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:04:22 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 02:05:55 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:07:25 Tomb with Control Undead and Orc with Beogh feel remarkably similar gameplay-wise 02:16:30 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3336-g0242c21 (34) 02:17:02 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 02:19:15 gammafunk: like those candlesticks and shit? 02:30:06 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:30:10 SamB: ? 02:30:50 you know, the classic candlestick/faces optical illusion? 02:31:12 ah, haha, yeah 02:31:37 -!- ac13 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:29 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:30 -!- Henzell has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:39:38 -!- rax_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:40:29 -!- Medar has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:40:30 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 02:40:37 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 02:41:26 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 02:47:05 -!- wh1te has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:08 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 02:50:48 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:52:01 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:35 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:59:13 -!- demiskeleton_ is now known as demiskeleton 03:00:44 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:01:14 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:02 -!- buzzykins has quit [Quit: so long, gaybowser] 03:02:05 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 03:03:08 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:10:35 -!- moonprincess has quit [Quit: Sayonara, Zetsubou Sensei!] 03:13:42 -!- Guest49320 has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:14:04 -!- neunon has joined ##crawl-dev 03:16:28 Medar: did DracoOmega ask you about the deterministic poison in webtiles issue? 03:18:38 -!- Chippums_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:01 I got a game issue. My client kicked me out mid game and now when I try to play the Trunk version it goes to the loading screen and then just kicks me out to the main screen. 03:20:24 I heard |amethyst was the guy to talk to. 03:20:39 what server/account? 03:20:44 yea, that 03:20:54 CSZO and Chippums 03:21:10 !crashlog Chippums 03:21:10 No milestones for Chippums (crash). 03:21:31 Chippums_: can you connect over ssh? 03:22:23 uh, hold on 03:22:33 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:22:47 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:58 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:07 It doesn't look like I can, but I may be doing it wrong here... 03:27:54 yeah, I'm sure now my access is being denied. 03:28:34 -!- TheMattybee has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:28:35 Chippums_: you can authenticate on CSZO webtiles, though, judging from what's happening? 03:28:57 yes 03:29:14 Chippums_: for ssh, you don't use your account login data, if that's what you were doing 03:29:37 you only use that after the ssh authentication (with user crawl, password crawlingtotheusa) 03:29:57 +gammafunk: Neat, one moment 03:31:21 +gammafunk: I am getting a prompt to add a profile from my SSH client, so I assume I have connected. 03:31:42 ok, you should get a login screen after ssh connects 03:31:53 yep got it 03:32:01 a menu that has a l)ogin option or some such 03:32:12 go there and use your cszo login info 03:32:21 Yes, should I attempt to login from here then? 03:32:22 k 03:32:32 after that, now go to T)runk I think it is 03:32:42 ??wonders 03:32:42 deck of wonders[1/2]: Cards: {potion card}, {focus card} (rare), {shuffle card} (very rare, not in plain decks), {experience card}, {wild magic card}, {helix card}, {sage card}, {trowel card} (rare, only in legendary decks). Sacrifice consumables, books, and miscellaneous items. 03:32:42 (I assume you were playing trunk) 03:33:03 !lm Chippums x=cv 03:33:04 951. [2014-03-16 08:07:09] [cv=0.14-a] Chippums the Basher (L9 GrFi of Zin) fell down a shaft to D:11 on turn 6980. (D:8) 03:33:09 I was, now what? 03:33:24 follow the menu to start your game, let me know what happens 03:34:02 as in hit T for Trunk then P for play 03:34:06 I have error messages! 03:34:27 does the game actually start? and what are the messages? 03:34:55 should I paste bin them? They seem to be about failure to place the baily map 03:34:55 which was the last thing I was doing before the crash 03:35:03 oh, interesting 03:35:08 yeah pastebin is good 03:35:25 !crashlog Chippums 03:35:26 No milestones for Chippums (crash). 03:35:31 http://pastebin.com/UfwweCYs 03:35:33 odd, sounds like it was a crash 03:36:19 Chippums_: is your game playable now? 03:37:55 +gammafunk: it's taking an odd amount of time to load from the web client 03:38:07 oh, you have to save and exit from console first 03:39:40 +gammafunk: nope, still kicks me to main screen 03:40:56 Yeah, well it seems to a be a weird not-crash thing, but thanks for helping to report it 03:41:16 Glad I could help 03:41:17 This will probably take |amethyst taking a look, since I'm not sure what the bug is at this point 03:41:33 have you ever made a bug report? 03:41:48 I'm a Software Engineer major, I love filling out paperwork. 03:41:50 I can make one if you don't have the time 03:41:52 haha, ok 03:42:03 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php 03:42:19 you'll have to register there and then make a report 03:42:29 give the error message you pastebined to me 03:42:35 and your account name and mention cszo 03:42:51 "Report Issue" is the link you want after you log in 03:43:05 sounds good. 03:43:06 I'll see the report here in this channel when you make it, and forward to |amethyst 03:43:09 ty 03:43:21 Is this going to kill my dude? 03:43:27 *maybe* 03:43:41 :( I had silly good luck, I would hate to see it go to waste. 03:43:45 bugs usually don't, and I kind of doubbt this one would 03:43:59 I only have a vague guess as to what caused it 03:44:27 oh yeah, never mind 03:44:30 I do know what caused it 03:44:44 Or at least I know *who* caused it 03:44:56 should probably make a save backup 03:45:05 oh, good point 03:45:08 and paste the link in the report 03:45:43 Sorry, but how do I do that? 03:46:01 Chippums_: you log in again via ssh and go to Trunk page again 03:46:08 but instead of Play you go to Advanced options 03:46:24 neat, will do 03:46:27 and hit B for Backup your save 03:46:30 it will give a link 03:46:30 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:34 which you can include in your report 03:47:09 %git :/Lua 03:47:38 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3330-ge5fc197: Let Lua tag-placed vaults get the tag that placed them. 10(8 hours ago, 2 files, 11+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5fc197054e3 03:47:50 that's the commit that broke Chippum's game, almost certainly 03:47:55 since it modified that same function 03:49:03 wellll, not quite 03:49:12 that commit modifies place_maps with an s 03:49:16 so I might be wrong there in fact 03:50:06 oh, but it probably is that commit 03:50:33 since the C++ portion of that commit seems to modify _dgn_place_map 03:57:13 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:33 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01:29 alright neat, I think I got all the info on there. 04:01:39 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:01:51 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:03:01 * johnstein waits for the announcement to show up 04:04:38 Failure to load game after going to the Bailey by Chippums 04:04:38 cheipoked 04:04:45 bingo 04:05:13 Chippums_: thanks, I think I know what recent change might be causing this; we'll take a look and update that bug report (which should send you an email) 04:05:49 Neat. Glad I could help. 04:05:52 If you need anymore information let me know. 04:06:11 * gammafunk wonders how long pastebins last... 04:06:52 The default is doesn't expire. 04:06:58 gammafunk: I believe you get to set it's expiration time when you create it 04:07:06 ah, I put the error in a note in any case 04:07:49 I might be able to figure out what this is and fix it, but no promises 04:07:59 -!- simmarine_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:08:02 ??grunt 04:08:02 grunt[1/8]: I'm really looking forward to the point in 0.12 where someone first comes across a tornado ghost. 04:08:19 s??grunt[/blame] 04:08:19 I don't have a page labeled grunt[/blame] in my learndb. 04:08:23 s??grunt[/bad] 04:08:24 I don't have a page labeled grunt[/bad] in my learndb. 04:08:26 s??grunt[bad] 04:08:27 grunt[2/8]: his puns are...*glasses*...bad 04:08:31 s??grunt[blame] 04:08:31 I don't have a page labeled grunt[blame] in my learndb. 04:08:38 -!- OCTOTROG1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:38 he needs an entry about being blamed 04:09:57 -!- Insomniak has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10:54 -!- OCTOTROG1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:14:18 ?/blame 04:14:19 Matching terms (1): blame_lemuel; entries (9): discorobin[1] | mutagenic_fog_abyss[1] | oklob_sapling_temple[1] | oklob_temple[1] | profane_halls[1] | river_lethe[1] | vault[1] | wretched_star[1] | ztome[1] 04:15:39 -!- Chippums_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:15:42 -!- Chippums has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:16:17 |amethyst: I made automatic dev-version update system. And it will operate everyday 17:00(GMT) 04:17:04 what exactly does it do sd1989? 04:19:07 -!- OCTOTROG1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:09 it will automatically update dev-version for my server. Before this, my server didn't regulary update dev-version. 04:21:23 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:22:08 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:11 you mean the latest trunk? 04:23:18 oh 04:23:29 wait, which server do you run? 04:23:35 * johnstein is out of the loop 04:26:29 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27:23 I was confused because I'm using the dgamlaunch-config scripts that have scripts to do all of the auto-updating. so I've tended to take auto-updating for granted 04:31:47 you are right, but my server don't use dgamlaunch-config scripts(for some regacy maintain issue). That's why I made update script. ++ http://kr.dobrazupa.org/ is my server 04:32:57 ah ckr 04:33:13 neato 04:33:28 sd1989: that's great to hear 04:34:01 I set up a parallel server (for dev) also running dgamelaunch, but I didn't want it auto-updating since I'd be actively screwing around with things 04:34:21 so I had to disconnect the auto-updating but still make it runnable when needed. it's still not perfect 04:34:23 I should try setting up dgamelaunch on my laptop just to see how painful it is 04:34:39 follow the wiki instructions and it's not too bad 04:34:46 what's that url again? 04:35:17 I have this one: http://dobrazupa.org/setting-up-dgamelaunch-and-webtiles 04:35:28 johnstein: That was not good to me. 04:35:34 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=setting_up_dgamelaunch_and_webtiles 04:36:05 this is the one that TZer0 set up (based on the link you posted, I think, gammafunk) 04:36:14 then I went through it and made a bunch of updates 04:36:23 I haven't added the part for setting up the rebuilding 04:36:41 johnstein: thanks, that one is probably more up to date 04:36:42 sd1989: you mean, the general process of setting the system up wasn't good for you? 04:36:55 gammafunk: yea. definitely should be 04:37:07 this stuff twists my brain around sometimes 04:37:21 I'm pretty new to working on a linux VPS 04:41:52 johnstein: I try to follow instruction, but it doesn't work. Precisely server doesn't work at final stage after setting. I started server process, but I couldn't connect my server. 04:42:56 yea. I spent HOURS getting it to work 04:42:59 johnstein: Process was running on server, but it didn't work. 04:43:09 ran into countless issues 04:43:25 So I pick cherry. 04:43:26 I tried to add warnings and clarifications in the wiki instructions for all the spots I had issues with 04:43:38 most of mine were due to permissions not set up correctly 04:43:48 I had to set up like 3 chroots for cbro 04:43:56 and another 3 for dbro (the dev server) 04:44:25 :( 04:44:28 -!- notcluie has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:47:50 ??ckr 04:47:51 ckr[1/1]: Unofficial crawl server (webtiles-only) located in Korea. http://kr.dobrazupa.org:8080/ 04:48:08 oh, webtiles-only :( 04:49:07 just play webtiles with glyph mode on! 04:49:24 johnstein: yes, I guess that's ok....I *guess* 04:49:41 that 30k win by hanon12 was pretty amazing. Only Yermak's Sp of Dith has done better for a recent game 04:58:03 Beogh is one of famous god in KR. And beogh players think beogh even make better score with some luck. 04:58:36 yes, beogh is like a summoner, at least the way hanon plays it, so that makes sense :) 04:58:47 I think new summons can also get a very good score again in trunk 04:59:27 the best scores of all time (top 3) are summoners 05:00:13 Player get only 50% of exp, but orc get 100% of exp. Total: 150% exp. 05:00:45 hehe, that is one thing true for beogh that is not true for summoners, yes 05:01:12 !gamesby * ckr s=god 05:01:12 * (ckr) has played 48261 games, between 2013-10-30 04:05:04 and 2014-03-16 09:53:18, won 60 (0.1%), high score 47803653, total score 1106658941, total turns 147526273, play-time/day 3d+5:11:42, total time 1y+78d+20:54:43. 05:01:23 !lg * ckr s=god 05:01:24 48261 games for * (ckr): 33508x, 3844x Trog, 1920x Okawaru, 1422x Xom, 1319x Beogh, 1144x Cheibriados, 965x Lugonu, 791x Vehumet, 555x Ashenzari, 515x Yredelemnul, 426x Sif Muna, 376x Makhleb, 312x Elyvilon, 307x The Shining One, 305x Nemelex Xobeh, 280x Dithmenos, 140x Kikubaaqudgha, 63x Fedhas, 46x Zin, 23x Jiyva 05:01:31 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:01 I think summoners still can get the best score (with the new spells in trunk), but those beogh wins were surprising to many (not on ckr at least) 05:02:05 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 05:02:16 they are started fighter for surviving, but they gain int stat, and memorize haste. 05:03:38 I should try it some time. I'm trying to win back the best high elf score; my last 15-rune was 49,000 turns or so, but not quite good enough to beat the current record 05:07:17 * johnstein has never had a 15 rune game 05:07:26 !lg johnstein s=nrune 05:07:27 152 games for johnstein: 146x 0, 2x 3, 5, 2, 4, 1 05:07:43 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:08:35 !gamesby johnstein 05:08:35 johnstein has played 152 games, between 2012-10-12 01:47:02 and 2014-02-14 06:28:43, won 3 (2.0%), high score 2115770, total score 7926037, total turns 1705454, play-time/day 0:36:53, total time 12d+13:49:49. 05:08:50 !lg johnstein won s=char 05:08:50 3 games for johnstein (won): DDBe, DsBe, MiBe 05:09:00 A true Be fan 05:09:56 yea I haven't played much 05:10:06 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:10:13 !lg zombiesheep t 05:10:14 112. ZombieSheep the Bludgeoner (L14 OgHu of Okawaru), slain by a giant firefly on Lair:8 (minmay_lair_end_enchanted_forest) on 2013-10-27 05:47:01, with 50203 points after 23955 turns and 1:46:47. 05:14:23 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:21:03 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 05:24:39 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:45:13 -!- xxkss has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:48:15 -!- MiracleKinacle has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 05:48:16 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 05:49:37 -!- RZX has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 05:52:14 !tell |amethyst I made automatic dev-version update system. And it will operate everyday 17:00(GMT) 05:52:15 sd1989: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 05:52:56 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:54:38 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:57:05 -!- Gobbopathe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:11:20 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:15:41 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:58 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:33 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:28:25 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:08 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 06:47:43 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:01:45 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:19 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 07:15:34 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Client Quit] 07:20:43 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:21:52 -!- sanka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:23:19 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:23 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:24:30 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:29 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:33:37 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:37 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:07 Banei (L16 MiFi) (Bailey) 07:47:09 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 07:47:38 !tell Grunt in my defense, item_def::special is how mace of brilliance checks for a halo 07:47:38 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 07:47:39 Banei (L16 MiFi) (Bailey) 07:48:21 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:05 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Client Quit] 07:55:04 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 07:58:05 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:05:03 !seen grunt 08:05:03 I last saw Grunt at Sun Mar 16 06:16:54 2014 UTC (6h 48m 9s ago) saying 'Something for rods too (I think the recharge rate).' on ##crawl-dev. 08:11:33 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:16:43 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:47 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:28:38 PeelerZ (L11 LOBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:10) 08:28:39 pigah (L5 OpWr) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:3) 08:28:40 -!- radinms has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:28:40 Centarion (L10 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D (Sprint)) 08:30:48 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:47 erm. did a server exhaust all of its connections? 08:38:07 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 08:40:42 Centarion (L12 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D (Sprint)) 08:40:50 sirlaser (L15 DDBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Orc:4) 08:40:58 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:25 Centarion (L12 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D (Sprint)) 08:42:29 pigah (L1 OpWr) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:1) 08:42:30 !seen rax 08:42:30 I last saw rax at Sun Mar 16 07:40:30 2014 UTC (6h 2m ago) joining the channel. 08:42:45 rax: I think something is going wrong with CAO 08:42:54 Centarion (L11 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D (Sprint)) 08:43:08 sirlaser (L15 DDBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Orc:4) 08:43:20 Centarion (L11 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D (Sprint)) 08:46:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:48:41 looks like the usual issue? (it seems to do this every morning( 08:50:34 guzonghuiren (L10 DEWz) (Bailey) 08:50:54 guzonghuiren (L10 DEWz) (Bailey) 08:52:00 guzonghuiren (L10 DEWz) (Bailey) 08:53:11 guzonghuiren (L10 DEWz) (Bailey) 08:53:31 !tell Grunt you broke everything 08:53:31 wheals: OK, I'll let grunt know. 08:55:19 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:30 guzonghuiren (L10 DEWz) (Bailey) 09:01:07 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:01 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:33 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 09:03:32 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 09:05:29 yo 09:05:34 taking a look 09:06:12 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:14 hip hip hooray 09:06:20 rax: What's the best escalation path to get your attention? 09:06:22 Webtiles server restarted. 09:06:33 email is best unless it's a major emergency in which case phone 09:06:35 k 09:06:57 I bet we have a socket leak 09:07:17 It isn't like you have 10k people on CAO right now 09:07:20 attemptint to load a test game 09:07:56 looks okay from here? 09:09:01 it used to have problems like this more often where the webtiles interface had to be kicked 09:09:32 I don't have much time to look at it this morning but I can probably fix it from my phone during the day if necessary 09:09:54 also Tuesday night there will be some network outage to the box according to my colo provider 09:09:58 so uh warning shot on that I guess 09:10:10 I've gotta leave in twenty minutes and I want a bagel so catch y'all later :) 09:12:49 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:31 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:55 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:15:29 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:51 !lg 09:16:52 62. sd1989 the Vexing (L1 SpEn), slain by a jackal on D:1 on 2013-11-11 01:59:40, with 22 points after 121 turns and 0:01:45. 09:17:07 !lg * ckr 09:17:07 48459. Wong the Digger (L1 GhEE), slain by a kobold (a +2,+2 whip) on D:1 on 2014-03-16 14:10:14, with 4 points after 106 turns and 0:00:34. 09:19:43 -!- yokelz has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:57 bh: good catch, on cao! 09:21:31 now if I knew how to fix the underlying bug... 09:22:43 being aware of its existence is the crucial first step 09:22:52 seems like rax (Hi Rachel!) already has an idea 09:24:20 sure, restarting the server will fix the problem 09:24:29 for small values of fixed 09:24:52 !lg Centarion -log 09:24:53 400. Centarion, XL1 OgFi, T:1: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Centarion/morgue-Centarion-20140316-121137.txt 09:25:01 ??crash 09:25:01 crash[1/1]: If you crash and the state does not seem recoverable, go to Advanced Options in dgl and then Backup Save File and let the developers know you've done so when you file a report in mantis: crawl.develz.org/mantis 09:25:14 ??lg 09:25:14 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/docs/listgame.md 09:25:43 !lg Centarion -log -2 09:25:44 399/400. Centarion, XL1 MiFi, T:1: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Centarion/morgue-Centarion-20140316-064158.txt 09:25:58 drr... how do I get my hands on the crash log 09:26:16 !crashlog Centarion 09:26:16 No milestones for Centarion (crash). 09:26:20 bah 09:27:03 oh 09:27:06 !crashlog Centarion sprint 09:27:07 5. Centarion, XL11 MiBe, T:2568 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/Centarion/crash-Centarion-20140316-134319.txt 09:28:42 internet says "non-blocking socket with a full buffer" 09:29:14 yes 09:29:36 game's writing to webtiles socket, the webtiles server isn't processing for some reason 09:29:36 So what's the cause, someone's playing fast crawl on a really lousy connection and filling up the buffer? 09:29:58 I think |amethyst has already poked at this a bit 09:30:07 -!- boily has quit [Quit: SHOWERED CHICKEN] 09:30:33 as I said, it seems to happen every morning (well, morning my/US time; 0900ish here, so 0700ish CAO time) 09:31:32 spooky ;) 09:33:29 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:00 !lg * ckr killer='Ijyb"' 09:34:00 No games for * (ckr killer=Ijyb"). 09:34:08 !lg * ckr killer="Ijyb"' 09:34:08 Broken query near ''' 09:34:31 !lg * ckr killer='Ijyb' 09:34:32 282. nyfair the Chiller (L2 TeIE), slain by Ijyb (a +0,+0 dagger) on D:2 on 2014-03-16 13:39:59, with 102 points after 837 turns and 0:05:28. 09:34:45 !lg . -log 09:34:46 1510. bh, XL7 TeWr, T:4328: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bh/morgue-bh-20140316-035632.txt 09:35:17 I'm not too wild about the vault that killed me. Without being spoiled it's difficult to distinguish vaults that you can time versus those that you can't. 09:35:28 (I assumed it was the former) 09:35:44 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:55 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:39 !lg * ckr killer='kobold' 09:36:41 2289. Wong the Digger (L1 GhEE), slain by a kobold (a +2,+2 whip) on D:1 on 2014-03-16 14:10:14, with 4 points after 106 turns and 0:00:34. 09:36:59 !lg * ckr killer='orc' 09:37:00 1296. dmdlrnd the Ruffian (L4 HOMo), slain by an orc (a +0,+0 trident) on D:3 on 2014-03-16 11:29:52, with 180 points after 2324 turns and 0:01:56. 09:37:58 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:16 !lg * killer=bat 09:38:16 14649. SniffingPanties the Chiller (L1 HEIE), slain by a bat on D:1 on 2014-03-16 14:31:45, with 9 points after 33 turns and 0:00:21. 09:38:28 !lg * killer=bat race=dwarf 09:38:28 No games for * (killer=bat race=dwarf). 09:38:32 !lg * killer=bat race=deep_dwarf 09:38:33 No games for * (killer=bat race=deep_dwarf). 09:38:38 !lg * race=deep_dwarf 09:38:39 53753. WeiSong the Cleaver (L8 DDAr of Makhleb), slain by an orc warrior (a +0,+0 glaive) on D:8 on 2014-03-16 14:31:26, with 2042 points after 4087 turns and 0:26:58. 09:38:45 !lg * killer=cockroach race=deep_dwarf 09:38:45 No games for * (killer=cockroach race=deep_dwarf). 09:39:33 !lg * ckr s=killer 09:39:33 48463 games for * (ckr): 10065x, 2531x a gnoll, 2311x an adder, 2289x a kobold, 2253x a hobgoblin, 2131x an orc priest, 1583x an orc wizard, 1524x a jackal, 1316x an ogre, 1296x an orc, 1151x Sigmund, 1000x a goblin, 932x a giant gecko, 808x an orc warrior, 743x a worm, 699x a centaur, 584x Grinder, 466x a worker ant, 445x a bat, 396x Crazy Yiuf, 371x Terence, 370x a rat, 349x a giant cockroach, 3... 09:41:51 !lg * ckr s=killer xl>10 09:41:52 3219 games for * (ckr xl>10): 221x, 80x an orc warrior, 60x a centaur warrior, 56x a hill giant, 54x an eight-headed hydra, 51x a death yak, 50x an orc knight, 50x an orc priest, 50x a stone giant, 41x a spiny frog, 38x Rupert, 38x a black mamba, 37x a seven-headed hydra, 36x a yak, 34x a komodo dragon, 34x an electric eel, 33x an unseen horror, 31x a minotaur, 30x an acid blob, 28x a six-headed h... 09:41:59 !lg * ckr s=killer xl>27 09:41:59 No games for * (ckr xl>27). 09:42:04 !lg * ckr s=killer xl=27 09:42:05 111 games for * (ckr xl=27): 52x, 5x a hellion, 4x an Ice Fiend, 3x an orb of fire, 3x a Brimstone Fiend, 3x a starcursed mass, 3x an electric golem, 2x a Hell Sentinel, 2x an acid blob, 2x a smoke demon, 2x a sphinx, 2x a greater mummy, 2x a reaper, 2x Dispater, a blue devil, a deep troll earth mage, a Lorocyproca, IronSoup's illusion, an Executioner, a Cacodemon, a blizzard demon, a red draconia... 09:46:43 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:58 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=a player illusion 09:47:58 No keyword 'player' 09:49:18 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=illusion 09:49:19 No games for * (ckr killer=illusion). 09:49:40 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=*illusion 09:49:40 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=~illusion 09:49:40 No games for * (ckr killer=*illusion). 09:49:41 2 games for * (ckr killer=~illusion): an illusion of Mara, IronSoup's illusion 09:50:14 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=~ghost 09:50:19 1198 games for * (ckr killer=~ghost): 35x nznznm's ghost, 34x davichi's ghost, 29x kyprion's ghost, 29x AnnaZZing's ghost, 27x Thrall's ghost, 26x dmdlrnd's ghost, 24x tongitongu's ghost, 23x LiLin's ghost, 22x samsso's ghost, 21x hanon12's ghost, 19x SiotWarrior's ghost, 18x kts0833's ghost, 18x arisutan's ghost, 18x Wong's ghost, 18x dldkeldlteo's ghost, 18x jessie's ghost, 17x Dredmor's ghost, ... 09:52:05 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:52:10 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=assembler~ 09:52:10 No games for * (ckr killer=assembler~). 09:52:25 !lg * ckr s=ckiller !boring 09:52:25 39037 games for * (ckr !boring): 2531x a gnoll, 2311x an adder, 2289x a kobold, 2253x a hobgoblin, 2131x an orc priest, 1583x an orc wizard, 1525x a jackal, 1316x an ogre, 1296x an orc, 1180x a player ghost, 1154x Sigmund, 1000x a goblin, 932x a giant gecko, 808x an orc warrior, 743x a worm, 699x a centaur, 586x Grinder, 466x a worker ant, 445x a bat, 398x Crazy Yiuf, 371x Terence, 370x a rat, 349... 09:52:32 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 09:52:44 ^ player ghost v. foo's ghost 09:53:34 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=assembler's ghost 09:53:35 No keyword 'ghost' 09:54:02 !lg * ckr s=killer killer=Thrall~ 09:54:02 No games for * (ckr killer=Thrall~). 09:54:20 ??lg 09:54:20 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_sequell/blob/master/docs/listgame.md 09:54:35 !lg * ckr killer=assembler's_ghost 09:54:36 1. signregulus the Hoplite (L9 MiFi of Okawaru), slain by assembler's ghost on D:8 on 2013-11-12 14:53:10, with 3855 points after 6749 turns and 0:14:44. 09:54:45 thanks 09:54:46 !lg * ckr killer=~Thrall 09:54:46 27. yukiholuv the Slasher (L5 HEFi), slain by Thrall's ghost on D:4 on 2014-01-29 09:41:12, with 278 points after 3607 turns and 0:02:02. 09:54:48 ~ is not a wildcard, =~ is regex match operator 09:54:54 !lg * ckr killer=~Thrall s=killer 09:54:55 27 games for * (ckr killer=~Thrall): 27x Thrall's ghost 09:57:35 !lg * s=killer 09:57:40 3033716 games for *: 676578x, 171071x a kobold, 169962x a hobgoblin, 142670x a gnoll, 116917x an orc priest, 103576x an orc wizard, 85178x an ogre, 79690x Sigmund, 77784x an orc, 69530x a goblin, 68474x a jackal, 66469x an adder, 59839x an orc warrior, 55075x a centaur, 52138x a giant gecko, 46136x a snake, 41411x a worm, 29441x Grinder, 27720x Terence, 24402x Ijyb, 23780x Crazy Yiuf, 22507x an oo... 09:58:26 !lg * s=killer killer=~ghost 09:58:28 76331 games for * (killer=~ghost): 358x a hungry ghost, 314x a ghost moth, 293x LogicNinja's ghost, 285x Neil's ghost, 233x heteroy's ghost, 213x Vesto's ghost, 206x KiloByte's ghost, 201x BirdoPrey's ghost, 198x phyphor's ghost, 197x jejorda2's ghost, 183x crawlie's ghost, 183x mafalda's ghost, 176x nogglebeak's ghost, 173x Sorbius' ghost, 170x qtip's ghost, 167x Moose's ghost, 167x xw's ghost, 1... 09:58:49 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:55 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:06:29 -!- sd1989 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:08:59 . 10:11:09 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 10:16:38 -!- Ragnor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:47 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:19:01 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:49 -!- Koolguydude has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 10:21:19 hey e5fc19 is causing crashes inside baileys 10:21:39 we know :/ 10:21:45 it adds a sixth argument tp l_dgn.cc's LUAFN(_dgn_place_map) and the argument is required because it uses luaL_checkstring 10:22:07 o, okay. well nvm then 10:22:24 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:23:15 i should also mention that place_map is called from tar.des too; so there is probably a crash in tar_grunt too 10:25:50 how ironic 10:26:24 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:25 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 10:30:44 bees (L9 DECj) (Bailey) 10:30:55 bees (L9 DECj) (Bailey) 10:31:07 -!- cribozai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:16 bees (L9 DECj) (Bailey) 10:33:34 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3337-gf4615ed: Don't crash baileys (#8283). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4615ed73fd1 10:34:20 yay 10:34:42 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:35:00 -!- w4ldf33 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:35:10 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3337-gf4615ed (34) 10:37:57 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:38:39 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-3337-gf4615ed (34) 10:42:48 -!- Chippums has joined ##crawl-dev 10:45:35 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:02 -!- SaTa has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:51:40 -!- bh has left ##crawl-dev 10:51:58 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 10:52:06 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 10:55:38 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 11:02:36 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:56 -!- rast-- has joined ##crawl-dev 11:02:58 -!- rast-- is now known as rast 11:03:41 beep (L10 MiBe) (Bailey) 11:03:53 beep (L10 MiBe) (Bailey) 11:05:13 03wheals02 07* 0.14-a0-3338-g1078df6: Make a warning for god-hated abilities (#8076). 10(9 minutes ago, 3 files, 30+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1078df6f08ce 11:05:15 beep (L10 MiBe) (Bailey) 11:05:15 beep (L10 MiBe) (Bailey) 11:05:15 johnstein: might want to rebuild 11:06:29 beep (L10 MiBe) (Bailey) 11:06:53 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:07:25 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/STORMBOWER.png LET IT END IN STORM FIRE 11:07:26 Bloax: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 11:09:38 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:15 wheals: I can rebuild it; I thought I triggered a rebuild earlier but I guess not??? 11:11:32 (We can rebuild it. We have the technology.) 11:15:49 I see cszo and clan rebuilds but not cbro 11:16:37 It's building right now. 11:17:27 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3338-g1078df6 (34) 11:17:33 See? :b 11:23:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:23:46 Who else wants to look through #8277 btw? 11:26:48 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 11:30:42 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3339-gdb4ce45: Don't list curse scrolls on the item knowledge screen (#8282) 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db4ce4559eb4 11:31:31 seems like possibly not a 0.14 thing at this point? dunno 11:32:23 are porridge/blood still listed too? 11:33:33 yeah, possibly you are more likely to want to mess with autopickup for those? i guess maybe curse foo should show up if you are worshipping ash, even 11:36:19 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3340-ga4e4665: Reduce Depths demon weapon spam (elliptic). 10(3 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4e4665dfb57 11:36:21 * Grunt prepares to leave for the day after one last thing: 11:37:11 -!- qoon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:12 you monster! 11:37:21 RIP fun 11:37:23 my dwhips 11:37:31 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:37:43 !send Grunt the hordes of hell 11:37:43 * Grunt catches the helpless dck completely off guard. Grunt punishes dck causing immense pain!!!!! 11:37:43 Sending the hordes of hell to Grunt. 11:38:15 (fun fact: I dipped into Depths recently for the sole purpose of getting a dblade and I got one almost instantly) 11:38:25 !send the depths of despair Grunt 11:38:25 Sending depths of despair Grunt to the. 11:38:32 nbsp fail 11:38:41 !send the_depths_of_madness wheals 11:38:41 Sending wheals to the_depths_of_madness. 11:39:40 pfft, wights already give out the best weapons on like d:5! great swords and dire flails for everyone 11:39:56 mmm wight swords 11:40:09 rename skeletal warriors dire wights 11:40:46 do skeletals still have animate dead? 11:40:52 skeletal warrior (10z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 56-75 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 25 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 771 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 11:40:52 %??skeletal warrior 11:41:06 did they ever have it or was it all in my head 11:41:20 skeletal warrior (10z) | Speed: 10 | HD: 10 | Health: 55-75 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Damage: 25 | Flags: 07undead, fighter, master archer, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 812 | Sp: animate dead. 11:41:20 <|amethyst> %0.9?skeletal warrior 11:41:20 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 11:41:25 aha 11:41:35 They had it in 0.11/12 I imagine too. 11:41:44 hellwings still have it, too 11:41:50 <|amethyst> !tell sd1989 excellent! 11:41:50 |amethyst: OK, I'll let sd1989 know. 11:41:52 as do shadow imps 11:41:57 hellwings actually cast it now and i have a minor heart attack every time it happens 11:42:01 it is terrible 11:42:14 when have you seen them near corpses 11:42:15 i can't cope with the shock 11:42:17 pan! 11:42:24 bah 11:44:46 what a weird thing hellwings are 11:44:59 maybe they should lose animate dead and get some other tloc stuff or something 11:45:04 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 11:45:43 or get lost entirely 11:45:53 also reasonable 11:46:30 midrange demons need a home 11:46:37 iron devils, etc 11:46:39 (demons? I forget) 11:46:54 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:49:33 4s are devils except for orange demons 11:49:43 3s are demons except for ice devils 11:49:57 fun 11:50:06 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:08 learn add crawl consistency 11:50:14 30 days hath december 11:50:16 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 11:53:13 *september 11:56:02 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:29 do phantasmal warriors have some sort of wierd 1 tile umbra? 11:56:51 I don't think so? 11:57:09 Well there's a "It is wreathed in shadows." line when looking at it. 11:57:16 which is kind of weird 11:57:17 Ah. 11:57:25 umbravision? 11:57:29 %git HEAD^{/M_SHADOW} 11:57:30 07|amethyst02 {Grunt} * 0.14-a0-2961-g69b86a6: Split M_SHADOW from M_GLOWS_LIGHT. 10(6 weeks ago, 6 files, 15+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=69b86a635792 11:58:07 oh 12:00:16 -!- Jasper_ is now known as dmchale92 12:03:39 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:39 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:05:02 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:37 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 12:06:49 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:07:22 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 12:07:41 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:40 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3340-ga4e4665 (34) 12:12:32 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/battlesabers.png battleaxes leak on warlords 12:12:32 Bloax: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 12:12:47 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:47 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 12:17:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:23:01 -!- cribozai has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:23:09 Bloax: yeah, i know 12:23:09 ontoclasm: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 12:23:13 not much i can do 12:23:16 !messages 12:23:16 (1/2) Bloax said (1h 15m 50s ago): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/STORMBOWER.png LET IT END IN STORM FIRE 12:23:21 !messages 12:23:22 (1/1) Bloax said (10m 49s ago): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/battlesabers.png battleaxes leak on warlords 12:23:24 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 12:24:39 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:36 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:25:46 -!- Chippums has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:29:06 Also what do you think about the icy beasts? 12:29:35 awfulest 12:29:59 i'm not a big fan of making them bipedal 12:30:31 we've already got plenty of humanoids 12:33:47 Let them hold weapons and call them yeti <_< 12:35:20 (i.e. reuse them for that if/when we make yeti enemies >_>) 12:36:35 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:36:40 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:52 well it'd make sense to reuse them like that for ice form 12:37:02 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:10 because currently you turn into an ice bear in ice form 12:38:51 -!- dmchale92 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:40:17 * dck mumbles some strange words. Space collapses on itself with a satisfying crunch. Grunt slams against the environment! 12:40:43 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:41:58 that sounds like a neat idea for ice form 12:43:08 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 12:43:11 what are the item limitation of ice form? 12:43:22 Surely that's not ... unbearable.\ 12:43:37 Even if you felt that the number of demon weapons in Depths was excessive, did it really need to be cut 12:43:38 to 1/5th of what it was? 12:43:43 (Also, what's wrong with a good chance of finding endgame quality weapons in an endgame branch?) 12:43:53 (Also also, surely Maud, Frederick, and Margery shouldn't get the same cut to their chance of a good weapon?) 12:44:01 DracoOmega: the weapon situation is a mess at the moment 12:44:05 and i am not glad about hearing that 12:44:16 wights have better weapons than most of the much later enemies 12:44:37 Step one: enter Depths. Step two: get demon weapon instantly. Step three: ignore rest of branch until much later. 12:45:05 step one: dive lair branch. step two: ninja rune. step three: enter vaults 12:45:07 This has happendd so often that it's surprising none of us have done something sooner about it. 12:46:04 uh the amount of demon weapons depths was providing until now was completely ridiculous 12:46:16 I hardly think dipping for a demon weapon is so trivial that it's sensible for most character that aren't already quite Depths-capable 12:46:24 %git :/emon 12:47:20 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3340-ga4e4665: Reduce Depths demon weapon spam (elliptic). 10(73 minutes ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4e4665dfb57 12:48:22 'place_map' lua error in ziggurat by johnnyzero 12:48:24 Last time I did that, I needed to clear ~half, 2/3 of a floor for a dwhip. 12:49:08 I also don't think dipping for a demon weapon was a trivial thing people who had the goal of winning should do. 12:50:29 But the extreme overabundance of demon weapons and the fact they are all really good made the weapons of a lot of midgame characters look the same. 12:51:22 Is 'almost every person using one-handers wants a demon weapon' really something new? In terms of homogeneity? 12:52:03 (The upgrade path for most two-handers is already a lot easier from earlygame stuff) 12:53:16 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 12:53:25 There's a difference between "wants" and "has". 12:53:36 Demon weapons are supposed to be rare. 12:53:57 I don't think so but there didn't use to be a zone where demon weapons are so common. 12:54:05 @DO I mean 12:54:56 DracoOmega: it isn't about dipping, it is about demon weapons being made several times more common 12:55:04 elliptic: Were they really 5 times as common? 12:55:18 it isn't just hell knights 12:55:59 though I wouldn't be surprised if hell knights were 5 times as common as they used to be 12:56:18 I don't have numbers on it but 5 times sounds about right compared to how common demon weapons used to be before Depths existed. 12:56:18 but also other enemies with demon weapons are generated more too 12:56:27 if good weapons are supposed to be rare then i can't see why i shouldn't go unarmed 12:57:03 <|amethyst> good unarmed requires a lot more XP than good one-handed weaponing, doesn't it? 12:57:08 yes 12:57:43 but if good one-handers are supposed to be rare even throughout the game then what's a more worthwhile investment 12:57:57 a lot of exp for a weapon that will last forever 12:58:04 or less exp for a weapon you might not even get 12:58:05 <|amethyst> the best one-handers, you mean 12:58:16 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:20 <|amethyst> they're not always the only good ones 12:58:22 elliptic: I actually have some numbers on that, due to all the population stuff I've saved over time 12:58:29 <|amethyst> maybe for polearms 12:58:30 Gimme a sec here 12:58:33 -!- notnotcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:42 DracoOmega: spriggan defenders drop demon whips, impalers drop demon tridents, demonspawn drop demon weapons, etc 12:58:44 1h polearms are pretty sad yes. 12:59:05 no they aren't, regular trident is a fine weapon 12:59:06 How common are ds in U? 12:59:21 Unless you get shoals, in which case you're very likely to get a demon trident from all the impalers. 12:59:23 Regular trident sounds like a pretty awful lategame weapon to me 12:59:40 well I mean, compared to the rest of things other 1h weapons have. 12:59:40 (Certainly a lot worse than a scimitar or morningstar) 12:59:40 there are also more red devils now because more demons in general 13:00:00 all these things along with hell knights being made more common have made demon weapons substantially more common than they once were 13:00:16 and I don't think that this was ever intentional 13:00:46 Huh, really? I mean depths is crawling with hell knight bands. 13:01:11 (Certainly a lot worse than a scimitar or morningstar) <- I'd prefer a good trident on most chars 13:01:18 Looking at this, it looks like there might have been a bit over twice as many hell knights on average compared to 0.13 (outside of extended) 13:01:21 (Until this recent change that reduced them again) 13:01:27 I'm not just comparing to 0.13 13:01:30 <|amethyst> what's the item-stats command 13:01:33 this has been going on for several versions 13:01:36 getting worse and worse 13:01:43 -!- johlstei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:01:56 asterion is d:14- and guaranteed a demon weapon, even 13:02:13 well 0.14 is substantially different from <=0.13 13:02:15 What's a "good" trident, to clarify? 13:02:29 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:35 well an elec trident is probably excellent 13:02:36 what with both the runelock, depths and the difficulty notch getting a kick upwards on most lair branches 13:02:39 pain, elec, highly enchanted with any brand 13:02:55 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:56 ??trident 13:02:56 trident[1/1]: A shafted weapon with three points at one end. (one-handed Polearm; Dam 9 Acc +1 Delay 13) 13:02:56 obviously not great if it is your primary attack unless it is pain, but still quite usable 13:03:07 anyway yeah significantly reducing hell knight demon weapon odds seems not at all problematic to me 13:03:22 probably asterion shouldn't be guaranteed one either 13:03:42 hm 13:03:42 is asterion an easy unique now 13:03:50 is mara guaranteed a demon weapon? 13:03:51 Orb isn't 3d53 anymore 13:04:00 well at least there's that 13:04:19 dck: yes 13:04:33 Mara is the Mennas category of uniques though. 13:04:53 Thought so, also don't seem to recall ever seeing him with an unbranded one although I could be wrong. 13:04:56 <|amethyst> Hm 13:05:07 Uh, Mara is significantly weaker than mennas. 13:05:13 <|amethyst> serious FR: we generate milestones for encountering a unique 13:05:27 <|amethyst> so we can get a runratio and not just a killratio 13:05:37 cowardratio 13:05:40 And Maud, Frederick, and Margery at the same time? 13:05:49 |amethyst: that sounds nice 13:06:04 <|amethyst> would need a bot update first 13:06:10 <|amethyst> else we get spam :) 13:06:18 <|amethyst> well, ##crawl gets spam 13:06:20 DracoOmega: yeah, I don't think uniques needed reduction 13:06:37 and hell knights might not have needed quite as large a reduction 13:06:45 but something needed to be done IMO 13:06:52 I wasn't objecting to a reduction in general 13:06:56 But the degree of it 13:06:58 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:07:21 ??great mace 13:07:21 great mace[1/1]: Largest weapon in the maces & flails category that most races can wield. 17 damage, -4 accuracy, 17 delay (two handed) 13:07:24 ??great sword 13:07:24 great sword[1/2]: A sword with a very long, heavy blade and a long handle. (two-handed Long Blade; Dam 16 Acc -3 Delay 16) 13:08:47 <|amethyst> I think part of the reason for the gradual increase in demon weapons might be the perception that 1h is not worthwhile 13:09:18 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 13:09:37 <|amethyst> which seems to have been the ##crawl consensus for several versions now 13:09:57 more like the minmay consensus 13:09:59 and he's loud 13:10:01 I noticed on my last run that just like Beogh orcs autopromote with HD, Tengu (Merc Card) does and Gnolls (Enslavement) do...how many monster types do that? ...Could say a Vampire I Control Undeaded Promote to a Vampire Knight or Vampire Mage? or Mummy -> Guardian Mummy? 13:10:13 <|amethyst> elliptic: and people repeat what he says 13:10:16 I think a lot of it's incidental rather than deliberate 13:10:19 Only natural holiness 13:10:25 did i ever mention how great shields are 13:10:30 and only along the paths that are defined for them 13:10:32 they are very very good 13:10:59 and yeah, what DracoOmega said... I don't get the impression that adding in spriggan defenders and their demon whips to depths was intended to increase dwhip generation, for instance :) 13:11:07 No 13:11:32 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:34 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: but that might be why so few people have noticed and complained 13:11:41 Tengu goes: Tengu -> Tengu Conjurer -> Tengu Reaver at very least. 13:12:01 |amethyst: players aren't very likely to complain about good items being more common :) 13:12:05 Well, I'm not sure that an increasing availability of good weapons is something most people would complain about anyway 13:12:30 grr 13:12:34 Dealing too much damage 13:12:43 too many demon weapons of pain 13:13:01 Well, I haven't had the good fortune to find one of those in a while :P 13:13:11 That's why I dipped into U, incidentally 13:13:42 anyway, as a concrete proposal, how about splitting off hell knight weapon selection from the uniques and giving the demon weapons a moderate boost from their current frequency 13:14:04 (for the hell knights) 13:14:19 -!- master_j has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:14:39 How much do you think is reasonable, personally? 13:14:46 splitting them off might be good anyway, can do more interesting things with the unique weapons if we want 13:15:14 Is this worth posting in Tavern? Seeing multiple enemy types promote made me think of it... What if Beogh was opened up to several races...and in each of them you recieve followers of your own race with the same base abilities. 13:15:22 Interesting things like what? Did you have anything in mind? 13:15:32 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 13:16:15 -!- qoon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:51 staff of oglreb showed up as +0/+0 on the ground & when picked up, then +6/+6 once wielded 13:17:26 Its plusses are based on your poison skill 13:17:32 well, maud and frederick could have good weapons without being so demon-focused at least 13:18:02 eveningstar, bastard sword, rare two-handers, etc 13:18:09 Oh, that might be interesting 13:18:14 Re: weapons, I feel like the consensus is more like "1-h weapons are generally less worthwhile than 2-h if you are hitting things a lot" but then gets simplified into "1-h bad 2-h good" because the more time you have to take to give people advice, the less likely it is to get through 13:18:17 o 13:18:20 neat 13:18:22 At least equivalently good, but different 13:19:02 SwissStopwatch: the way I like to say it is "1-h good for hybrids, 2-h good if you just want to hit things" 13:19:42 DracoOmega: for weights for demon weapons on hell knights, how about just making all those weapons equally likely? 13:20:16 Hmmm 13:20:18 I don't know why we need a slightly different weight for battle axe and great mace and such 13:20:30 Probably reasonable, yeah 13:20:37 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:44 Each is more skill expensive in its own way...2-h is higher Dam, lower Speed (so the good brands are multiplicative like flaming); 1-h is lower dam, higher speed (so the good brands are additive like distortion). Need more weapon skill to be good with 1-H, but you'd want to also train shields if going 1-h...it's all in preferences. DTrident is a personal favorite...so... 13:20:46 Thinking on Maud and Frederick, maybe their brands also needn't be so focused on 'hell/evil' stuff either 13:20:48 that's equivalent to moving demon weapons to each have weight 7 or so with the current weights I think 13:20:56 right, the brand stuff is weird too 13:21:23 hell knights not having freezing is reasonable, but maud/frederick could just use usual brand generation for good_items 13:21:25 Maud and Frederick aren't particularly flavored as "evil" relative to other uniques I guess 13:21:31 They aren't, no 13:21:51 similarly donald's brand selection is weird 13:22:07 Oh, he has the same set 13:22:15 also donald's weapon selection, wtf is that weight 1 eveningstar 13:22:27 Actually, it looks like he was just split out from hell knights at one point 13:22:28 Or something 13:22:30 Is it just me or do Centaur Hunter/Knight...whatever the greater Centaur is called get Flaming or no brand and never Vorpal, Freezing, etc. ? I found that weird in my last game, had 5 long bows of flaming spawn... 13:22:31 Since it's ALMOST the same 13:22:36 it is similar, but he has a shield 13:22:40 Yeah, that's what I mean 13:22:41 dancing weapon brand selection has always bothered me 13:23:00 -!- Wolfechu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:22 anyway, I don't know exactly how MAKE_GOOD_ITEM works, but replacing donald/maud/frederick brand selection with that might work 13:24:30 I guess eveningstars still have that odd thing where branded ones are unusually likely to be draining? 13:24:52 there are still various weirdnesses in the generic brand-selection code, yeah 13:24:53 Normal brand selection code is really awkward in general, though 13:24:54 <|amethyst> are morningstars particularly likely to be holy? 13:26:01 same as other maces 13:26:13 !source _determine_weapon_brand 13:26:14 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/makeitem.cc;hb=HEAD#l936 13:26:27 <|amethyst> oh, at least that would kind of explain the eveningstar thing 13:26:54 eveningstars aren't really a huge amount more likely to be draining I think 13:26:59 since that is usually overwritten 13:27:05 Who can tell? T.T 13:27:09 still more likely than any other mace, and for no apparent reason 13:27:17 Well 'evening' 13:27:19 clearly because - yes 13:27:19 So dark >.> 13:27:24 I... see 13:27:40 That might genuinely have been the reason, but I still think it's strange 13:27:42 Nobody said it was a -good- reason. Um, at least not here. 13:27:42 <|amethyst> right, that also would have suggested/been suggested by the morningstar thing :) 13:28:40 I guess the two questions re: this are "OK, so what brands -should- a given weapon get and how often" and "Which doubtless more sensible code structure should be used for determining them" 13:29:03 random_choose_weighteds 13:29:12 Almost certainly make more sense 13:29:32 I can't say much about the second and the first one kind of just ends up as arbitrary anyway 13:31:02 I guess maybe demon weapons need to have more evil things and no holy, and... hm. Do "quick" weapons want to get things like venom, disto, elec more? 13:32:15 <|amethyst> SwissStopwatch: the latter would be a power boost 13:32:22 SwissStopwatch Well those make them better, yes...but I don't know if that means they need to spawn better than normal or not. 13:32:22 Well, even just rewriting the current percentages in a more intuitive code structure would be an improvement 13:32:29 Regardless of what else one might decide could be done with them 13:33:10 |amethyst: Yes I mean it's necessarily a balance impact to change anything at all, I'm just not sure which changes make sense/would be good 13:33:25 I guess one I personally think would be good is for vorpal to show up more often on everything 13:33:48 Because for being the most basic brand it seems less common than I would expect for it to just show up randomly 13:34:10 0.15 todo: rewrite weapon brand selection from scratch 13:34:11 Grunt: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 13:34:14 maybe we should try to get reaverb interested in refactoring the current code an random_choose_weighted so we can see what the current weights really are :) 13:34:24 for maud, you'd expect her to usually have a long blade, wouldn't you! 13:34:25 hah 13:34:36 but yeah, not 0.14 material clearly 13:34:36 <|amethyst> SwissStopwatch: that probably makes more sense now that vorpalise is brand weapon 13:34:51 well it still makes vorpals as easily as ever 13:34:53 maybe she's diving for entarex and is going to switch weapon types when she finds it 13:35:21 There's a lot of wierdness in brand selection, yeah 13:35:35 I mean they're not that hard for a player to get and never have been, it just feels like they should exist "naturally" more often 13:35:37 Like apparently daggers can get pain, but not short swords or cutlasses. And scimitars can get pain, but not falchions or longswords. 13:36:05 DracoOmega: yes, it is totally crazy 13:36:11 Haha 13:36:13 Nicely put :P 13:36:46 <|amethyst> I mean, I could see factoring size into the weightings, but that could be done with random_choose 13:37:00 Hand axes can't get draining or holy wrath, but all other axes can 13:37:30 The more I look at this, the wierder it is 13:37:50 <|amethyst> hm 13:37:50 I looked at it several months ago, when this conversation last occurred 13:37:55 and was impressed by all that stuff too :P 13:38:08 <|amethyst> part of it may be balancing early-game distribution of brands? 13:38:45 <|amethyst> I mean 13:38:56 <|amethyst> that can be done better 13:39:08 |amethyst: well, most of the function hasn't been touched in 6 years 13:39:09 I feel you may be reading more logic into this than exists 13:39:27 <|amethyst> I don't necessarily mean *intentionally* balancing :) 13:39:28 "logic"?????? 13:40:07 Wow, scimitars are the ONLY long blade that can generate with pain on it? (outside of demon blades, I guess) 13:40:21 Oh no, nevermind 13:40:24 no, see the "intentional fall-through" 13:40:24 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:25 Misread that 13:40:32 falchions and long swords can too 13:40:32 Yes, yes. Sorry, skimming :P 13:40:39 1learn add good_code 13:40:50 %git 3f69a6bf 13:40:50 07haranp02 * 0.4-a0-448-g3f69a6b: Massive rewrite of makeitem.cc. Might be buggy. Fixed some old bugs, e.g. double reroll of =oCT. items() now respects force_type more often. As a side effect, acquirement is less likely to give randart jewellery or armour. 10(6 years ago, 5 files, 1676+ 1824-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3f69a6bffb46 13:40:57 most of the function dates from that commit 13:41:13 just a few minor changes since then with adding antimagic and renaming weapons and such 13:41:54 I don't know if that commit was just refactoring older code even 13:44:01 http://sprunge.us/edLa thoughts? (margery back to previous state, hell knights with equal weighting on all their weapon types as elliptic suggested, eveningstar/claymore instead of dwhip/dblade for frederick/maud + standard brand choice) 13:44:16 oh that doesn't actually have the make_good_item bit for frederick/maud 13:44:22 wrong diff but yeah 13:44:54 where by claymore you mean eveningstar 13:45:33 (having more uniques with exec axe/claymore is an option too if we want) 13:45:42 er by claymore i mean bastard sword i guess 13:45:55 Claymore and not bastard sword? 13:45:55 er yes 13:46:04 good thing the weapon names are realistic and easy to understand now 13:46:04 Heheh 13:46:59 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:47:48 i also repeatedly confused maud and margery while making that 13:48:08 FR: no two uniques with the same first two letters 13:48:14 it is like glyph reform 13:48:15 oh yeah and adding morningstar/broad axe to asterion possibilities, at the bottom 13:48:44 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:49:18 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:50 thoughts on http://pastie.org/8936187 ? (i just ripped out the code for rune counting from ignacio's lua, i don't actually know lua at all) 13:50:12 I'm not sure I like the flaming/freezing/vorpal/draining brand selection so much as MAKE_GOOD_ITEM for them. Hmmm... it might actually be better on average, but it lacks the smaller chance of especially nice stuff (which the hell knight brand code had). Not sure. 13:50:27 DracoOmega: yeah i made it MAKE_GOOD_ITEM instead after but forgot to update the diff 13:50:34 Ah, okay 13:52:45 Out of curiousity, were you planning to do something similar with Donald, maybe? (Given that he was in the same curious situation as Maud/Frederick, basically) 13:55:52 oh yeah, could do 13:56:16 afk for a bit though, i'll take another look at it later (or someone else can mess with it and push if they'd like!) 13:57:37 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:54 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:16 -!- MakMorn has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:16 -!- BanquosGhost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:56 (Maybe I'll do that when I get home; I instigsted this discussion anyway >_>) 14:01:10 *intyigated 14:01:14 *intsigated 14:01:18 *instigated 14:01:23 Nice job :P 14:01:30 fr a phone keyboard I can actually type on 14:01:33 Haha 14:03:36 Has anyone noticed cherubs rousing other creatures in holy pan? 14:04:08 They have too little HD to do so (at one point I meant to remove that limitation from them, so they could affect higher-HD holies also, but never got around to it) 14:04:12 They can't - nothing is lower HD than it. 14:07:12 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:29 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:43 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:01 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:10:32 alternately, increase their hd 14:10:44 cherub (12A) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 59-91 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 15, 8 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(96), 05fire, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 742 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:10:44 %??cherub 14:10:55 9 is pretty awful for an extended thing 14:11:16 Well, they would need to be more than devas and such for that to work properly 14:11:29 daeva (08A) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 101-137 | AC/EV: 10/13 | Dam: 25, 10 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(149), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 2103 | Sp: smiting (7-17) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:11:29 %??daeva 14:11:33 I see no reason that if one of their roles is to be 'buff other holies' that they can't explicitly do just that, regardless of their own power 14:11:35 angel (16A) | Spd: 15 | HD: 12 | HP: 83-118 | AC/EV: 10/20 | Dam: 25, 10 | 08holy, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(128), 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1561 | Sp: minor healing (2d6) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 14:11:35 %??angel 14:11:46 orc knight (10o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 47-90 | AC/EV: 2/13 | Dam: 25 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(36) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 616 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:11:46 %??orc knight 14:11:52 orc warlord (11o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 87-139 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 32 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(60) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1671 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:11:52 %??orc warlord 14:12:20 but yeah, that works too 14:13:03 In any case, I have to dash for a while. Back later! 14:13:05 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:47 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:14:53 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:14:55 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18:31 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:22:07 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:34 i guess this might have gotten buried in the flow, but are there any comments on http://pastie.org/8936187? 14:26:12 http://sprunge.us/CCcI?diff 14:26:53 -!- gnum has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:00 wheals: it sounds reasonable, but don't people complain more about looking for demonic rune? at least I do :P 14:27:14 wheals: I'm not completely sure CHANCE can be determined at runtime like that; have you checked to see that it does what it's supposed to? 14:27:20 er 14:27:23 that would be a good idea 14:27:51 hm, looks like there's another problem, too 14:28:43 elliptic: given the previous discussion is the patch I just linked what we wanted? 14:28:57 so what precisely does MAKE_GOOD_ITEM do? 14:29:00 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:37 Let's figure that out... 14:30:43 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:03 does that end up getting fed to _determine_weapon_brand as item_level? 14:31:07 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:11 I think so? 14:31:28 -!- Sodji has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:41 if so, force_good gets set 14:32:02 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:18 huh, it doesn't seem to work, yeah 14:32:35 -!- wat1 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:35 might need to refresh .des cache... 14:32:48 it looks like MAKE_GOOD_ITEM tries pretty hard to be branded? 14:32:59 Looks like it. 14:33:01 so this might be a buff to the 5/9 chance of brand that we currently have 14:33:09 so maybe only set MAKE_GOOD_ITEM sometimes 14:34:07 probably pretty much guaranteed brand, judging from the monsters that get it always and my experiences 14:34:16 -!- appleKen has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:34:29 2/3 chance (like Agnes) maybe? 14:35:05 I'd just stick with 5/9 for 0.14 probably? 14:35:08 Grunt: ok, possibly i could do this instead by guaranteeing the vault and turning the exit into a floor based on chance? 14:35:38 someone can go through and make everything more consistent/reasonable in 0.15 14:35:40 wheals: possibly? 14:35:59 elliptic: so, http://sprunge.us/HHBc?diff 14:36:09 like, should rupert have a guaranteed brand but not frederick? 14:37:01 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:01 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:37:21 (fr make Frederick more interesting or something >_>) 14:38:22 Grunt: seems reasonable, though it is a little hard to read the diff so I might be missing something wrong :P 14:39:10 -!- Turgon has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:40:00 wheals: I have an idea; give me a second... 14:41:02 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3341-g9e1720a: More adjustments to hell knight / unique weapon sets (MarvinPA). 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 46+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9e1720a57db9 14:41:21 elliptic: you can at least try to get the demonic rune while looking for the unique ones too, when you want to leave pan (usually) by definition there's nothing left to even look for 14:42:49 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:57 wheals: right, but if you don't happen across a demonic rune before you get the 4 others (which is pretty common for me), it is really not much fun to just look for the demonic one 14:43:12 takes longer than finding an exit, since exits are more common than demonic runes in rune vaults 14:43:40 anyway, I was just saying that I've been bored a lot more by that than by trying to find an exit 14:43:50 true, i do not really have much experience with this 14:44:37 (making exits get more common as you get more runes still seems reasonable to me) 14:44:53 fr every panlord vault has a demonic rune 14:45:18 it could at least be more common than 1/9 maybe 14:45:37 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:49 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:31 wheals: http://sprunge.us/GWgW 14:47:35 er 14:47:38 good patch 14:47:42 use --stdout maybe 14:47:44 I hate when I do that >:( 14:47:49 http://sprunge.us/KEZY 14:48:14 (todo put that panrunes bit somewhere shared) 14:48:21 (maybe that nice new dlua/vault.lua!) 14:54:22 ...okay, that seems to work. 14:54:39 http://sprunge.us/EPFO 14:56:00 you can commit it if you think it's a good idea, you have more extended experience than i do 14:56:18 I'll defer to people who have more experience than I do in that respect <_< 14:56:23 (it was based on something notcluie said so there's a good chance it's not actually a good idea) 14:56:32 I'm not really sure having the 100% abyss exit chance is a good idea with all five runes. 14:56:41 Maybe 75% is sufficient? 14:59:02 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:28 %git f4615ed 14:59:28 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3337-gf4615ed: Don't crash baileys (#8283). 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f4615ed73fd1 14:59:39 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 14:59:50 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:15 johnny0: guh, that may be an off-by-one error on my part :( 15:00:17 Grunt: was this the fix for the duplicate issue of my report? 15:01:11 ahh okay, should I reopen the bug then? 15:01:46 Don't bother: 15:01:58 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3342-g4de47f9: Fix an off-by-one error (johnnyzero, #8284). 10(56 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4de47f926105 15:02:34 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:02:43 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:10 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 15:05:00 wheals: so that would be, uh, http://sprunge.us/AUIj 15:05:15 elliptic: maybe that's reasonable?? 15:05:22 Grunt: ahh, you might want to adjust the issue to resolved as not a duplicate then (it will improve your bugs fixed stats at the very least!) 15:05:32 at this point you may well stop calling it my commit :p 15:06:01 !lm . br.enter=pan 15:06:02 321. [2013-10-26 01:44:41] elliptic the Archmage (L27 DECj of Vehumet) entered Pandemonium on turn 106304. (D:24) 15:06:03 johnny0: It still is a duplicate! ...it's just that my fix didn't fix everything :b 15:06:10 not the best person to talk to about pan really :P 15:06:21 ahh interesting 15:06:21 !lm . br.enter=pan -2 15:06:22 320/321. [2013-10-26 01:34:39] elliptic the Archmage (L27 DECj of Vehumet) entered Pandemonium on turn 103608. (D:24) 15:06:23 !lm . br.enter=pan 15:06:24 9. [2014-02-08 04:27:14] SGrunt the Invulnerable (L27 MiGl of The Shining One) entered Pandemonium on turn 114436. (Depths:3) 15:06:29 !lm . br.enter=pan !decj 15:06:30 309. [2013-05-23 01:15:15] elliptic the Bringer of Light (L27 DDWz of The Shining One) entered Pandemonium on turn 73024. (D:21) 15:06:34 (not so invulnerable after all) 15:06:36 !lm . br.enter=pan !decj !ddwz 15:06:37 301. [2013-04-18 18:19:15] hyperelliptic the Acrobat (L27 NaFi of Jiyva) entered Pandemonium on turn 73614. (D:22) 15:06:51 that NaFi was the last time I entered pan outside of a tourney I guess 15:07:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:38 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08:13 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:23 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 15:08:41 ...well, anyway. 15:08:57 I think enough of us agree that this is reasonable <_< 15:09:06 03wheals02 {Grunt} 07* 0.14-a0-3343-gf50c63c: Make Pandemonium runes increase exit chances. 10(85 minutes ago, 3 files, 29+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f50c63c7b150 15:10:35 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:14:18 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:04 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 15:17:50 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:37 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:12 -!- Acidburn6 has quit [] 15:25:13 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:25:23 anyone have any idea how dlua libs get built and included? I'm seeing dlua.cc:init_dungeon_lua, which calls luaL_openlib on all the dlua libraries, but I can't see how it actually resolves said libraries 15:26:52 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:15 -!- sd1989 has joined ##crawl-dev 15:31:28 they don't get "built" 15:32:15 well, somebody needs to build them, they're c++ files---I mean files like l_item.cc 15:32:27 or rather, somebody needs to include them 15:32:41 -!- Fortescue_ is now known as Fortescue 15:32:41 those are built as part of the normal crawl build 15:32:50 -!- sd1989 has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:03 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:09 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3344-gb3cbc50: Changelog through 0.14-a0-3343-gf50c63c. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3cbc500bd87 15:37:44 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 15:38:03 i guess fo being able to throw large rocks is fine? 15:38:16 from the changelog: "* Abyssal stairs appear more frequently, and are fixed with depth." 15:38:21 "fixed with depth"? 15:38:51 let me rephrase, then---if I want to add a new lua binding akin to l_item.cc, what files do I have to modify to get it built and linked? 15:39:32 assume I know nothing about crawl's makefile beyond the fact that it doesn't appear to define explicit rules for every build target 15:39:44 <|amethyst> nrook: what are you adding to lua exactly? 15:39:54 <|amethyst> nrook: a new library? 15:40:25 |amethyst: piety reset for the trove that resets your piety. I think that kind of thing belongs in a "l_god.cc" rather than an existing lib 15:40:51 <|amethyst> nrook: just one function? I think it makes sense in l_you.cc 15:40:52 l_you.cc? 15:40:57 <|amethyst> nrook: you.reduce_piety() 15:41:28 <|amethyst> if you do want to add a C++ file, you need to edit Makefile.obj and the Visual Studio build files at least 15:41:49 ah, ok 15:42:05 <|amethyst> I'd look for a commit that added a file 15:42:07 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:10 oh, l_you includes both clua and dlua bindings 15:42:16 <|amethyst> yeah 15:42:34 thought it only had clua bindings! I'll put it in there then 15:43:34 -!- Fusha has quit [] 15:44:03 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:44:05 !seen mumra 15:44:06 I last saw mumra at Tue Mar 11 22:10:53 2014 UTC (4d 22h 33m 12s ago) quitting, saying 'Read error: Connection reset by peer'. 15:45:52 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:46:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:50 |amethyst: ty 15:53:40 -!- Medra has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:11 -!- hyperbolic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:50 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:55:05 -!- buzzykins has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:55:26 -!- Kaput has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:23 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:29 -!- _wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 15:58:35 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:58 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:37 -!- hyperbolic is now known as elliptic 16:01:38 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:08:44 ooh, the wizmode dlua repl is really nice 16:10:05 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:10:11 -!- halv has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:14 <|amethyst> nrook: there's a clua one too 16:14:23 <|amethyst> nrook: also available out of wizmode, but not bound there 16:14:50 <|amethyst> bindkey += [~] CMD_LUA_CONSOLE 16:15:43 |amethyst: ooh, that's clever 16:16:43 1learn add bad_ideas: eval_url_contents() function in clua 16:18:26 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Excess Flood] 16:19:16 -!- moose has quit [Excess Flood] 16:19:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:20:13 -!- Pharaoh_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:26 -!- Henzell has quit [Excess Flood] 16:20:27 hm, I don't understand you.redraw_status_flags and set_redraw_status() 16:20:41 it looks like nothing ever checks which flags are set, just whether at least one is 16:21:00 -!- Medar has quit [Write error: Connection timed out] 16:21:01 -!- scummos__ has quit [Write error: Connection timed out] 16:21:03 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:21:22 -!- wh1te has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:31 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:33 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:53 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 16:22:05 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:44 -!- sstrickl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:02 enum status_redraw_flag_type looks like it is a remnant of really old code 16:24:48 -!- Jazzimus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:14 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 16:26:22 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 16:27:17 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 16:29:30 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 16:33:08 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-3345-g9255d23: Fix hp bar/status light for poison not updating sometimes (wheals). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9255d236e961 16:33:11 -!- dtsund has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:33:11 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:11 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:38 -!- CrazyArbalest_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:53 Huh, !lignify doesn't even mention treeform doesn't let you quaff potions. 16:40:53 dck: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 16:41:00 That is probably bad. 16:41:24 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:43:34 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 16:45:46 ...incidentally "The Shadowy Depths of Despair" works just as well as a 0.14 release name <_< 16:45:57 (unless someone wants to think of names that don't involve "Depths of") 16:46:11 ...also we could use Dith banner ideas >_> 16:46:29 Grunt: don't care what you call it, just release it so I can fix crosstraining :) 16:46:36 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:47:11 * dck prays in loud words. Grunt is cast into the viny shadowy depths! 16:47:21 Is it known that firing paths don't show up in glyphs/hybrid tile_display_mode? 16:47:38 Grunt: banner ideas welcome for any god really, can shuffle them around if necessary 16:47:56 -!- ttj__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:59 -!- sstrickl has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:22 Potion of lignification kills people by not telling them treeform doesn't allow quaffing. by dck 16:48:45 good ticket description 16:49:11 dith banner: pure black 16:49:14 it's shadow, see 16:49:34 Priority: Normal 16:51:25 PleasingFungus: as in the conduct, not the appearance :) 16:51:48 I guess there are a few banners that will need to be rethought at least a little bit given the dungeon structure changes 16:51:57 Speed demon? 16:51:58 -!- BadOgre has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 16:52:03 probably around 2 completely new banners would be good 16:52:13 Basil: yeah, speed demon should probably be cut 16:55:23 ??speed demon 16:55:23 speed demon[1/1]: !lm * br.end=D dur<1620 s=char 16:55:36 !lm * br.end=D dur<1620 s=char 16:55:37 124 milestones for * (br.end=D dur<1620): 20x FoCK, 19x FoFi, 15x SpAs, 9x SpEn, 7x GrBe, 6x FoAr, 6x HOBe, 5x FoEE, 3x FoMo, 3x TrBe, 3x FoHu, 3x FoWr, 2x FoAs, 2x FoDK, 2x FoAK, 2x FoHe, KoBe, GrFi, FoBe, SpVM, LODK, DDBe, NaAs, VpAr, SpBe, MiFi, TrMo, FoWn, DDAs, FoAM, MiBe, LOBe, SpSu 16:55:45 !lm * br.end=D dur<1620 s=char won 16:55:48 4 milestones for * (br.end=D dur<1620 won): 2x HOBe, SpEn, GrBe 16:55:54 huh. 16:56:01 bh: much easier now that that means D:15 16:56:07 elliptic: point 16:56:13 !lm * br.end=D place=D:27 dur<1620 s=char / won 16:56:14 3/34 milestones for * (br.end=D place=D:27 dur<1620): 2/3x HOBe [66.67%], 1/9x SpEn [11.11%], 0/1x VpAr [0.00%], 0/1x SpVM [0.00%], 0/1x TrMo [0.00%], 0/1x SpBe [0.00%], 0/1x MiBe [0.00%], 0/1x DDBe [0.00%], 0/2x TrBe [0.00%], 0/1x NaAs [0.00%], 0/1x KoBe [0.00%], 0/12x SpAs [0.00%] 16:56:31 Those HOBe wins are surprising 16:56:33 !lm * br.end=depths min=dur x=dur 16:56:33 2515. [2013-11-22 23:21:37] [dur=0:33:49] qw the Executioner (L22 GrBe of Trog) reached level 6 of the Depths on turn 41807. (Depths:6) 16:56:44 bh: they are parabolic 16:56:44 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:56:51 I think 16:57:07 !lm * br.end=D place=D:27 dur<1620 s=char,name 16:57:08 34 milestones for * (br.end=D place=D:27 dur<1620): 12x SpAs (XiN, araganzar, maniac, monqy, 78291, Yermak, AdeonTwo, Elynae, clouded, hem, Ahrin, Grandpa), 9x SpEn (3x jeanjacques, 2x kulnjbhy, BONNNG, maniac, qwqw, EightySix), 3x HOBe (3x parabolic), 2x TrBe (SpeedRobin, pivotal), VpAr (demonblade), SpVM (meneril), DDBe (78291), TrMo (jeanjacques), NaAs (78291), KoBe (jeanjacques), MiBe (ellipti... 16:57:09 er 16:57:13 !lm * br.end=D place=D:27 dur<1620 won s=char,name 16:57:14 3 milestones for * (br.end=D place=D:27 dur<1620 won): 2x HOBe (2x parabolic), SpEn (jeanjacques) 16:57:40 anyway I don't think diving to depths:5 sounds very fun really 16:58:16 I suppose vow of courage should be altered as well 16:58:24 could do other stuff in 27 minutes (like get a rune), but I'd just as soon replace the banner with something more different 16:58:30 Targetting paths aren't displayed in glyph or hybrid webtiles. by Siegurt 16:58:39 or wait, D:14 is still the first place where vaults can spawn? 16:58:41 Orbrunhell 16:58:46 Orbrunpan 16:59:05 nonethousand: D:13, and we don't have a milestone set up to track that right now 16:59:25 ah the milestone...good point 16:59:26 vow of courage should sort of be deleted too though, or changed a lot 16:59:34 since the point of it was to simulate rune lock 16:59:40 right 17:00:05 it could essentially be reversed: Encourage doing depths before vaults 17:00:23 kiku's banner also needs some amount of changes, though it is salvageable I think 17:00:32 -!- Ketsa has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 17:00:44 nonethousand: that is sort of likely to overlap with kiku banner 17:00:49 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:01:02 I think there is one good banner between those two with branch entrance restrictions, probably not two 17:01:17 anyway the point is that we need a few good new ideas for banners :) 17:01:23 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:01:33 elliptic: while we're mucking with crosstraining, do you want to tweak it any more? 17:02:11 -!- Turgon has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:25 bh: I think the 0.2 discount multiplier will likely need some adjusting, but that can happen with playtesting in 0.15 17:02:53 does the branch/patch/whatever it is currently remove antitraining? 17:02:57 yes 17:03:05 (xtrain branch) 17:03:14 gammafunk said there are some display errors on the skillmenu in tiles 17:03:38 that sounds like a good start then... aside from maybe increasing the discount multiplier, I'm not sure what other tweaks we could make 17:04:10 There are skills that crosstrain one skill and skills that crosstrain two. We could tweak the discount based on that 17:05:13 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:26 -!- Sorbius__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:28 I think it should always have the same discount if you only care about two skills 17:05:36 since that is the normal case 17:07:11 -!- Gobbopathe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:08:19 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:36 -!- bh has quit [] 17:10:02 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:37 -!- BadOgre has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 17:11:42 -!- thug_lessons is now known as lessens 17:12:41 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:18:51 -!- ricardofg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:27:26 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:28:30 !messages 17:28:30 No messages for TZer0. 17:29:26 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:33:50 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:35:15 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:36:03 -!- Greyr has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:11 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:41:34 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 17:43:45 -!- sstrickl has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- Basil has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- caleba has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- ac13 has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- minmay has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- minqmay has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- G_Flex has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- TheMattybee has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- tkappleton has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- Xenobreeder_ has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- yxhuvud has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- demiskeleton has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- nixor has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- Keanan has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- ldf has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- ebarrett has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:45 -!- Escalator has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- wat1 has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- MakMorn has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- Aryth1 has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- ToastyP has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- moonprincess has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- Krakhan has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- Fortescue has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- tensorpudding has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- phyphor has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:46 -!- atrodo has quit [*.net *.split] 17:43:57 -!- sstrickl_ is now known as sstrickl 17:44:39 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:39 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:39 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:39 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:39 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 17:44:50 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 17:46:00 -!- Flex is now known as Guest80365 17:46:10 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:43 At the risk of sounding like a broken record, there are a couple issues with that most recent weapon commit :P 17:46:50 (Though at least one of these is just an oversight, for sure) 17:47:12 Donald's code is kind of broken, in that now he can only generate with +0 unbranded weapons, period 17:47:30 that does sound like an oversight 17:47:59 (More widely, the 5 in 9 chance of a brand was seperate from the plusses, which applied in all cases, and are larger than MAKE_GOOD_ITEM gives anyway, in terms of what the old code did) 17:48:33 MAKE_GOOD_ITEM doesn't force a brand? I am confused 17:48:52 The problem with Donald is he still has force_item = true; 17:48:59 Which makes MAKE_GOOD_ITEM do literally nothing 17:49:07 ah, what does force_item do? 17:49:13 Insectoid crature tile by Marbit 17:49:15 It makes it use the exact plusses and brand you specify 17:49:25 (Otherwise those are ignored) 17:49:35 MAKE_GOOD_ITEM needs it to generate a new weapon based on the info given 17:49:35 so it should just be removed now, no? 17:49:38 Yes 17:49:43 Well, sorta 17:50:08 all I know is that MAKE_GOOD_ITEM works fine on rupert :P 17:50:34 The other thing, as I said, is that the weapon code for these people always gave it random2(6) to acc and dam for all weapons (and then a 5 in 9 chance of brand). Now it gives a 5 in 9 chance of brand (with smaller plusses) and otherwise gives no brand or plusses (normally) 17:50:53 oh man, insect crature 17:50:55 that's great 17:51:05 This could be approximated by just either giving them MAKE_GOOD_ITEM OR the plusses, I imagine 17:51:28 DracoOmega: "these people" meaning frederick/maud? 17:51:38 -!- randart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:41 And Donalrd 17:51:48 Donald* 17:52:16 donald never had the plusses, no? 17:52:48 Oh, huh. Maybe he didn't. 17:52:50 Silly diffs 17:53:02 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 17:53:02 yeah, the diff for this commit is really hard to read 17:53:45 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:53:47 (Also, were we going to give him bastard swords and eveningstars as well as we did for Maud/Frederick? I mean, aside from his current silly low weight for an eveningstar. Not that we'd need to) 17:54:08 his weights could certainly use sanity-improving, yes 17:54:18 and giving him that stuff sounds good 17:55:46 so I guess remove force_item from donald, maybe change donald's weapon distribution, and give frederick/maud the plusses if they don't get MAKE_GOOD_ITEM? 17:56:04 That sounds reasonable to me, I think 17:56:41 maybe you can do the fixes, since you are the one who actually understands how this code works? :) 17:56:55 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 17:57:39 Working on it :P 17:57:41 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:59:22 Actually, while I'm at it, do you mind if I greatly simplify the Margery code and just made it a chance at a demon weapon or otherwise fall down to the hell knight list? Instead of preserving exactly the old weights for all the non-demon types by mostly duplicating the whole code block that hell knights have? 17:59:35 With rates about the same as the old ones, otherwise 18:00:04 I think the only significant bit is 'more demon weapons' and not 'slightly more battleaxes' or whatnot :P 18:00:09 indeed 18:01:17 ReDead (L3 FoFi) ASSERT(idx < 5) in 'tilepick.cc' at line 5694 failed. (D:1) 18:02:38 Grunt: I had to quite in LOS of Vashnia, I hope you're happy 18:02:57 Grunt: And I ran away from Swamp to Snake in the first place because a certain H was there >_> 18:03:07 s/quite/quit/ 18:03:12 i didn't know those uniques were in 0.13 18:03:15 *0.12 18:03:25 wheals: I cherry-picked them yesterday 18:03:47 !lg * HEIE s=cv 18:03:48 5558 games for * (HEIE): 712x 0.14-a, 593x 0.12, 560x 0.12-a, 543x 0.13-a, 415x 0.8, 336x 0.9, 328x 0.5, 290x 0.8-a, 264x 0.7, 196x 0.11, 171x 0.9-a, 159x 0.6-a, 149x 0.10, 141x 0.11-a, 131x 0.6, 119x 0.13, 118x 0.4, 95x 0.10-a, 90x 0.3, 79x 0.7-a, 31x 0.2, 30x 0.5-a, 7x 0.1, 0.4-a 18:03:51 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:58 !lg . HEIE s=cv 18:03:58 665 games for gammafunk (HEIE): 423x 0.12, 120x 0.12-a, 118x 0.13-a, 4x 0.14-a 18:04:08 !lg . heie s=cv 18:04:09 130 games for wheals (heie): 68x 0.12-a, 35x 0.11-a, 22x 0.14-a, 5x 0.13-a 18:04:20 wheals: you're just as bad I see 18:04:30 !lg . 0.12 18:04:31 17. wheals the Destroyer (L16 DEFE of Vehumet), slain by a white ugly thing on Vaults:1 (v_misc_12) on 2013-05-22 20:26:07, with 123159 points after 45061 turns and 3:14:04. 18:04:36 !lg . 0.12-a 18:04:36 775. wheals the Agent of Entropy (L7 DsAK of Lugonu), demolished by an ogre (a +0,+0 giant club) on D:4 on 2013-02-19 15:05:21, with 735 points after 5912 turns and 0:09:14. 18:04:40 no! 18:05:18 0.12-a, even *older* than 0.12 18:05:31 !kw recent 18:05:32 Keyword: recent => cv>=0.12 18:05:36 not even recent 18:06:22 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 18:07:03 !lg * recent s=cv 18:07:06 818993 games for * (recent): 318392x 0.14-a, 258621x 0.13-a, 130408x 0.13, 111572x 0.12 18:07:28 !lg * recent 1 18:07:31 1/818995. squarelos the Markscentaur (L13 CeAs of Zin), quit the game on Lair:6 on 2013-04-01 00:06:53, with 30397 points after 23492 turns and 1:12:30. 18:07:47 Well I wouldn't call "a year ago" recent.. 18:08:57 What if Ice Fiends had Ozo's Refridgeration instead of Symbol of Torment? ...or in Addition to, I guess. (Just finding it weird given how powerful that is that only fannar and player ghosts use it against you and thinking that the branches of hell could use more threats unique to themselves)... 18:09:35 all hail the mighty mighty fridge 18:09:41 Ice fiends do also show up in elf and vaults and D (As summons) 18:09:52 and in ice cave 18:09:53 (Not that OR shouldn't be a spell of theirs) 18:09:57 And there too :) 18:09:58 Well symbol of torment is much stronger than refrigeration. 18:10:40 Bloax, it can be, but Torment can't kill you directly and refridgeration with their HD...one sec. 18:10:43 Players are always asking us to find ways to increase item destruction, it's true 18:10:50 Speaking as someone who just died from multiple torments in the vaults, I agree :) 18:10:57 Ice Fiend (161) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 78-122 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 2512(cold:18-53), 2512(cold:18-53) | 05demonic, 10doors, evil, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 12cold+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 2892 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), s.torment | Sz: Large | Int: high. 18:10:57 %??Ice fiend 18:11:08 Fannar (12e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 80 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 8 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(144) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2125 | Sp: b.cold (3d27), refrigeration, sum.ice beast, 04esc:blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 18:11:08 %??fannar hd:18 18:11:09 they pack a nasty punch if they hit good 18:11:20 they already have bolt of cold, so they could technically already destroy your potions 18:11:22 just, not as easily 18:11:31 well, yes 18:11:33 it doesn't say what refridgeration would do with that HD... 18:11:36 ._. 18:11:49 the question is should they be able to do it *more* 18:12:05 actually we have plans to change the potion effect of OR 18:12:10 what about the -potions thing that some- yes 18:12:26 Retch 18:12:35 wheals: the -potions was supposed to just apply to the caster, to be clear :P 18:12:41 hehe 18:12:47 OR's max is 3d25, so it'd be less than b.cold, but...you couldn't block it and it ignores armor completely...so... 18:12:50 elliptic: because monsters using potions would also be removed? 18:13:00 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-3345-g9255d23 (34) 18:13:05 no, because I don't think it would be good if fannar stops players from using potions 18:13:49 (I don't think -potion or -scroll effects work well unless they are completely within the player's control, as a price to pay for some other benefit) 18:13:56 I personally don't like destruction at all...It usually leads to bizarre things like me having to run back into the Gehenna entrance to get a scroll, because I left it there. 18:14:39 (clearly the people responsible for most of the badforms disagree with me) 18:14:45 well fixing item destruction is tied to fixing the player inventory situation, no small problem 18:15:09 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:09 -!- LexAckson has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:30 Whose idea was the tree potion btw? I quite like using it...occasionally...usually on a UC char... 18:16:52 gammafunk: That being item weight or something else? 18:17:10 -!- ricardofg has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:17:14 Basil: weight, inventory slots 18:17:54 I'm not sure how item destruction addresses slots other than compelling players to drop strategic items 18:18:05 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:16 yeah, it is more a weight thing 18:18:23 lignify wrecks grinder's shit 18:18:32 secret tech 18:18:49 I think slots issues are both less common/annoying and harder to address 18:19:01 Oh, speaking of weight 18:19:07 Didn't we agree to reduce chunk weight? 18:19:08 sure, I guess inventory slots are also just a problem with inventory management that probably needs addressing and probably would be if we ever got to addressing it (along with item dest) 18:19:12 (you don't run into slots issues for picking up extra consumables if you already are carrying at least one) 18:19:16 As something easy to do immediately 18:19:39 s/addressing it/addressing inventory in general/ 18:19:53 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 18:20:14 DracoOmega: I wouldn't mind it, yeah... could halve chunk weight in 0.14, maybe 18:20:16 Yeah, easy to do, but maybe hard to balance so close to release? Players would certainly rejoice in any case 18:20:22 (and then remove weight in 0.15) 18:20:27 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:20:35 gammafunk: I don't think balance is even involved here much 18:20:45 elliptic: That would be quite good, yes 18:20:59 the only balance I can think of is that it is a buff to sublimation/simulacrum being less annoying 18:21:10 DracoOmega: well it certainly affects spell users, particularly for those spells that directly use chunks 18:21:31 gammafunk: Yes, but I think it's much more a convenience than a power boost in practice 18:21:56 I don't think that's the case with simulacra 18:21:58 Sub blood is the place where it seems like it would have the biggest impact, but chunks do seem over-heavy to me. 18:22:05 (Might want to update that planning wiki page with all the 0.15 things we're considering...) 18:22:09 How common is Kikuless simulacrum used? 18:22:13 I think fruits need to be...uhh condensed to one ruddy slot. carrying around 10 kinds of fruit to make Oklob sentinels while of Fedhas is ridiculous. 18:23:01 -!- Guest80365 is now known as G_Flex 18:23:02 and yeah, it's certainly a bit deal to be able to have twice as many not-sublim-self casts in a fight 18:23:03 I use it pretty much whenever I have it available and any decent level of necromancy 18:23:08 s/bit deal/big deal/ 18:23:52 although I guess we're slated to mostly remove chunks? I don't even know what the specific plans are on that at this point (maybe there's nothing specific) 18:23:54 Usually 50 mana is good enough for me 18:23:59 whenever I'm doing things 18:24:16 If you really needed a lot of chunks for simulacrum or sublimation, you could always drop something else in the short term 18:24:28 Which isn't really even a downside given how many unimportant-in-the-moment things you'd be carrying 18:24:54 (Or really, just burden yourself for a few moments to dump out of a lot of simulacra) 18:24:55 It's true, chunks aren't a long term thing to carry around anyway. 18:25:17 (the extra weight just forces you to juggle short-term) 18:25:29 I think the result would be that chunk-using chars would need str boosts less; I'm not saying this change would break crawl or anything, but it's a significant boost to some builds, at least 18:25:31 I feel like chunks used to be lighter than they are now. 18:26:02 Do they need str boosts now? 18:26:16 Basil: you don't always have 50mp, for one 18:26:25 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:26:26 You do with sub 18:26:30 I almost never do (well maybe as a spriggan or DE, but that's an edge case for me) 18:26:50 right, and this is buff to sub, essentially 18:27:02 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:22 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:27:33 I'm not arguing against it, just saying it may require some spell changes and we're close to release 18:27:40 usually with sublimation I am carrying around far more chunks than I ever need 18:27:52 I don't think it would require changes to sublimation at least 18:28:02 less sure about simulacrum since I don't like the spell and don't use it 18:28:07 No one is going to complain about this change, so there's that much 18:28:19 I've used simulacrum a bunch of times, and I don't think it would matter much either 18:28:27 And when I use simulacrum, I just lug chunks around wherever at lightred/red burdened 18:28:29 and kill everything 18:28:30 Normally I either make them immediately, or just carry them a short distance while burdened if I need to 18:28:43 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:28:49 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:21 Last character I did used Bows, Fedhas and Evocations...lots of ammo stacks (Arrows, Arrows of Flame, Poisoned Arrows, etc.) lots of fruit stacks (apples, lemons, chokos, sultanas, grapes, strawberries, etc.) and lots of evocables, which don't stack (Phial of Floods, Box of Beast etc.) let to me virtually nto carrying normal wands (just +tele, digging and HW) and having no room for scrolls. 18:29:22 Yeah, you cast Simulacrum before you engage regardless. 18:29:22 what else even uses chunks directly 18:29:30 Eating :P 18:29:31 eating :P 18:29:33 Hahaha 18:29:36 spell wise 18:29:44 I don't think anything 18:29:47 ??corpse violating 18:29:47 corpse violating[1/1]: Fedhas hates the spells: Animate Dead, Animate Skeleton, Twisted Resurrection, Sublimation of Blood, Necromutation, and Simulacrum (and Fulsome Distillation while it existed). Fedhas doesn't mind Corpse Rot, since magically accelerated decay is still decay. 18:30:06 nothing, yeah 18:30:10 Does ignite poison still make flame clouds from poisonus chunks? 18:30:13 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:30:13 yeah, I mean it makes speedruns easier, but we don't really care about balancing those anyhow 18:30:46 Keanan: If it did, it probably still does. Not that their weight matters here. 18:30:51 It doesn't if they're in your inventory, anyway 18:30:55 *nodnod8 18:31:13 players throwing more poison chunks trog style 18:31:16 (At one point in the past you could apparently instantly destroy all of your venom ammo at once by casting the spell >.>) 18:31:32 It's identical to conjure flame anywhere poison chunks, corpses or potions of poison are. 18:33:19 I guess I really have few reasons left to play 0.12 then 18:33:42 !hs * he 18:33:42 he is ambiguous: may be species or class. Use he-- (High Elf) or --he (Healer) to disambiguate 18:33:47 !hs * he-- 18:33:48 159609. PurpleRed the Archmage (L27 HEFE of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-12-06 11:45:57, with 29901737 points after 49425 turns and 22:07:26. 18:33:55 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 18:33:57 good, he hasn't improved it 18:33:58 * Bcadren still thinks Alchemy (changing the world around you) and Transmutations (changing your body) should be separate schools, though doing so would need ALOT more Alchemy type spells, Alistair's and Ignite Poison are the only good ones right now...they just seem so out of place in TM. 18:34:11 !lg purplered hefe 18:34:11 5. PurpleRed the Archmage (L27 HEFE of Vehumet), escaped with the Orb and 15 runes on 2013-12-06 11:45:57, with 29901737 points after 49425 turns and 22:07:26. 18:34:19 only issue is that sif seems to always make a bad first gift in trunk; I know it's just chance, but it's making me angry 18:34:39 and when I get angry I become the hunkl 18:34:39 er 18:34:41 the hulk 18:34:47 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:47 ??twelwe 18:34:47 twelwe[1/2]: THE HULK CANNOT EQUIP ARMOUR. THE HULK NEVER STOPS BEING THE HULK, BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO PROGRAM. 18:35:02 I become the hunk when I'm angry 18:35:05 but also 18:35:07 at all other times 18:35:15 s?hulk 18:35:24 ?/hulk 18:35:25 Matching terms (1): rotting_hulk; entries (2): plague_shambler[1]: Replacement for rotting hulks in 0.13. Speed 10, stronger, more hp, inflict a Retching status that blocks food/potions, and on death spawns a cloud of miasma that spreads one tile per 10 aut. | twelwe[1]: THE HULK CANNOT EQUIP ARMOUR. THE HULK NEVER STOPS BEING THE HULK, BECAUSE IT IS HARD TO PROGRAM. 18:35:47 what were rotting hulks? I don't remember them 18:36:02 that was the point 18:36:11 I kinda figured 18:36:13 ??retch 18:36:13 retch[1/1]: You can't eat food or quaff potions. Inflicted by {plague shambler} melee. 18:36:14 plague shamblers without the miasma effect? 18:36:18 o 18:36:20 or retch 18:36:23 So 18:36:25 sick on attack 18:36:34 so, super necrophages 18:36:35 btw, can we remove retch? 18:36:39 No 18:36:40 I've yet to see it do anything 18:36:41 they didn't rot you 18:36:47 I got fucked by retch once 18:36:51 didn't die but it was close 18:36:55 !lg * status=~retch 18:36:55 No games for * (status=~retch). 18:36:57 and they already have the miasma gimmick 18:37:07 !lm * status=~retch 18:37:07 No milestones for * (status=~retch). 18:37:13 %git :/retch 18:37:15 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2619-g464c487: Allow felids to use wands 10(4 weeks ago, 7 files, 5+ 15-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=464c487c3a5d 18:37:15 it might not be tracked 18:37:23 ... 18:37:39 "it doesn't seem a stretch" 18:37:49 %git :/fool 18:37:50 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2629-g88aaa33: Remove guardian golem's melee attack 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=88aaa338ea38 18:37:59 yeah, it isn't tracked 18:38:12 Figures 18:38:34 %git :/plague shambler 18:38:35 07tenofswords02 {|amethyst} * 0.14-a0-1437-g188663e: Update special_room_morgue, special room depths/weights 10(3 months ago, 1 file, 31+ 31-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=188663e25cb1 18:38:39 Put them in dddk packs and give them blink close 18:39:07 !lg * kmap=~gammafunk_lair 18:39:08 No games for * (kmap=~gammafunk_lair). 18:39:18 !lg * kmap=~gammafunk_crypt 18:39:18 No games for * (kmap=~gammafunk_crypt). 18:39:28 basically though I've meleed a lot of plague shamblers and the only thing retch has ever done is made me rest a few turns after killing it 18:39:58 I know at least one person died to it (since it involved bitching in my general direction), but I wouldn't be adverse to removing it anyway 18:40:04 I agree it doesn't do much 18:40:25 usually they don't even manage to make me retch, but the probability that you'll have to melee one at the same time as dangerous stuff that you want to use potions against is around 18:40:30 is not high 18:40:42 It involved them standing in the miasma and getting darkred poison :P 18:40:50 Which they could then not cure 18:41:03 remove retch, make miasma nastier 18:41:43 (On the plus-side, the code is already in place for the -potion refridge effect!) 18:41:46 anti-notspriggan clouds 18:41:50 With a few rewording of messages and things 18:42:45 how about they can inner-miasma nearby enemies; plague explosions 18:42:50 the miasma-on-death doesn't play out that well either IMO, though I have actually had it do things (mainly when I am naga/chei) 18:43:09 but a lot of the time it just seems to be a "does the player remember that they should step away" check 18:43:14 maybe making it faster would be good 18:43:24 The only reason I didn't was the rot, to be honest 18:43:29 (Which I also thought of removing from miasma >.>) 18:43:36 so that you can't just step away... like, time things so that it will catch you for one turn if you walk away at speed 10 18:43:46 Yeah 18:43:51 Speed 13 or whatever it would take 18:43:53 With the new editions in 0.13 and 0.14 ...the only player races that don't have an enemy version (that normally spawns outside of rare vaults and shapeshifters) are Felids, Demigods, and Halflings... [Minotaurs and Deep Dwarves are also rare, but not non-existant.] 18:44:00 That's just a matter of tweaking a number - the support is already there 18:44:01 mmm 18:44:07 Rot one point every time you kill one 18:44:09 minotaurs are common in depths now 18:44:09 in melee 18:44:11 idk why 18:44:15 that sounds sort of annoying 18:44:45 Basil: no worse than necrophages/ghouls inflicting rot status in melee 18:45:04 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3346-g1b1818f: Yet more adjustments to unique weapon selection 10(30 minutes ago, 1 file, 30+ 48-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b1818f554b6 18:45:04 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3347-g8388805: Make chunks weigh half as much 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83888059d82f 18:45:06 And I suppose Vine Stalker, should they actually be added. 18:45:06 better even, guaranteed that one curing potion will cure all the damage 18:45:06 and easier to avoid than mummy death curse 18:45:06 Ghouls are pretty annoying, yes. 18:45:07 afaik vine stalkers are in? 18:45:12 Bcadren, there's a felid unique in .14. demigods have been discussed and I think discarded as uninteresting 18:45:14 I mean, they're not like lava orcs 18:45:27 whereas if a necrophage/ghoul causes rotting, you are already guaranteed to have to spend at least one potion to cure it and the battle is still going 18:45:32 (mind, it's a pretty sorry unique...) 18:45:34 geekosaur: now if only someone would do the same thing for the race 18:45:37 (demigods) 18:46:01 * geekosaur declines to get into that argument 18:46:01 I wasn't counting Natasha because she's...uhh kind of like a Weaker Mustachio. 18:46:41 haha 18:46:43 fair enough 18:46:50 fr: rename eustachio to mustachio 18:47:02 she could use a buff, but then sigmund and grinder are tough acts to follow for early uniques 18:47:21 the thing is 18:47:24 if you kill her once 18:47:29 you're going to have no trouble killing her twice more 18:47:34 esp. because she's weaker each time 18:47:48 it'd make more sense if she became stronger each time you killed her, but ofc that wouldn't fit the felid theme 18:47:50 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:47:55 I'm not sure how much of a loss that'd be tho 18:47:59 Let her wield Firestarter 18:47:59 felids could gain an XL each time they die 18:48:02 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 18:48:02 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:06 that was actually considered at some point 18:48:08 Natascha explodes! 18:48:13 elliptic: *why* 18:48:18 ??natasha 18:48:19 natasha[1/2]: A felid unique in 0.14. Comes back to life after she dies, losing 1 HD each time. 18:48:22 s/c// 18:48:40 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:48:45 I proposed a Felid Unique way back...a Neme worshiper that used multiple cards from Deck of Summoning and Deck of Destruction against you. 18:49:04 (the silly Bullwinkle joke could go too...) 18:49:10 I don't really like that they LOSE an xl each time they die at the moment 18:49:13 Losing a life is penalty enough 18:49:41 yeah, it is kind of unfun 18:50:00 DracoOmega: where do I want to look to see the hp bar update code in tiles as it relates to poisoning? 18:50:12 I can grep it, but I figure you'd know off-hand 18:50:16 I liked the idea of giving some draining instead of decreasing XL 18:50:37 that would actually be nastier, assuming decreasing xl doesn't decrease actual skill levels 18:50:44 which is kind of a big assumption 18:50:48 actually there is a behavior I have seen that is clearly currently clustering illusion but might be worth pursuing as a deliberate mechanic: it often seems like the first time I get her she's melee, and only later starts using the spells 18:50:48 huh? 18:51:04 draining has no long-term cost though 18:51:06 gammafunk: output.cc. See colour_bar::draw 18:51:10 DracoOmega: ty 18:51:22 Give Natasha some necromancy as she comes closer to death? 18:51:24 elliptic: Do you think any penalty besides just having one less life is actually necessary, though? 18:51:28 or should she stay strictly a fewz 18:51:46 What if Natasha's summons didn't die when she did (As long as she's not actually dead yet :) 18:51:55 xl isn't nearly as critical as skills, and early draining can really fuck you in a way that losing an early xl can't. (esp. given how easy xl are to gain early) 18:52:01 also, gaining xl gets you lives 18:52:07 so really it's a bonus 18:52:12 DracoOmega: I sort of like having something, but I don't think it is necessary, no 18:52:29 well. sort of 18:52:48 Honestly, the random tele on death is fairly likely to put you in a bad spot if things were bad enough for you to die in the first place anyway, I think? 18:52:58 I admit I have limited felid experience, but I have seen a few cases like that 18:52:58 it isn't random tele 18:53:02 It isn't? 18:53:08 it tries to pick a safe square 18:53:11 Wow, really? 18:53:14 You can't be in LOS of your corpse, right? 18:53:16 and usually does pretty well unless the level is crazy 18:53:22 Funny, I had thought that would be a good idea for it to do so 18:53:23 Basil: more than that 18:53:36 I've never died as a felid and come back in LOS of any monsters. 18:53:38 hmm 18:53:45 Deathtele on V:$ sounds like a good plan 18:53:46 At least some of the last times I watched it happen involved reviving in the middle of a pack of orc warriors and such >.> 18:53:53 But maybe the code just gave up 18:54:19 Basil: I'm not sure there's any case in which 'dying' is a good move 18:55:13 DracoOmega: I have a good number of felid deaths and I've never had it place me in sight of monsters at least 18:55:15 elliptic: Isn't there some quirk with the lives system at the moment that sort of depends on the assumption that you lose a level when you die or something? In terms of quickly earning 'banked' lives or something? 18:55:17 A felid themed mini-branch or portal...or just adding them to the spawn pool either in the Lair or the dungeon would be interesting... 18:55:24 yeah 18:55:32 nearly as interesting as natascha 18:55:33 that could be fixed though 18:55:35 I am not really sure how that works 18:55:36 in one way or another 18:55:53 Bcadren: no 18:55:57 They could be the only casters in the Lair (since they are still beasts)... 18:56:02 natasha is already slightly awful 18:56:14 -!- TacoSundae has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:56:35 Just because the first attempt at a Felid enemy is aweful, doesn't mean Felids as enemies in general is awful. 18:56:40 DracoOmega: basically currently after dying you need to gain two XLs to get a banked life... the one you just lost, and one more 18:56:59 wheals: are you planning some changes for natasha? 18:57:10 it could still be two XLs even if you didn't just lose one XL 18:57:28 Ah, I suppose 18:57:42 i dunno, not quite sure what to do 18:57:45 felid branch/portal seems uninteresting 18:57:47 That's actually simpler than I remember it being 18:57:54 there are some weirdnesses in that behavior anyway 18:57:58 maybe start by not giving xp for kills after the first, and up her xp modifier 18:58:07 I recalled a more convoluted approach somehow 18:58:09 like, it is much better to die at XL 12.99 than at 13.01 18:58:21 Oh, hmmm... yeah 18:58:26 Depends on how it's done and when you go there. Orc is boring if your XL is high enough that all the orcs except Warlords are tissue paper. 18:58:38 because in the first case you only have to get back up to XL 13, while in the second you have to get up to XL 14 18:58:41 Maybe it should just count xp earned? 18:58:50 so making some changes to that code would be good regardless, yeah 18:58:53 So it doesn't matter your level threshold 18:59:55 Bcadren: what is appealing about a felid enemy type? what's interesting about fighting them, as distinct from other enemies? 19:00:18 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:03:17 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:39 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 19:04:32 Felids could fill the caster niche in the lair. They are still beasts and don't use equipment, but they could use magic (stronger than Orc Wizards, Weaker than Elf or Tengu Conjurers)...or they could be an ambush enemy...UC physical attack only, but invisible until you get right next to them. 19:05:14 like trapdoor spiders, but without the durability or damage or poison 19:05:21 what niche 19:05:48 Everywhere except lair, swamp and spider has some spellcasters. 19:05:55 slime 19:06:06 Eye of Destruction. 19:06:13 swamp has bog bodies 19:06:17 why does the player care whether a monster is flavored as a spellcaster 19:06:33 bcadren clearly doesn't - eyes of destruction aren't flavored as casters 19:06:45 he cares about whether they have shitty ranged attacks 19:06:47 then how has he done spider without seeing orb spiders 19:06:54 or lair without fire drakes 19:07:04 catoteblasjdflkjasdf also have ranged attacks 19:07:05 and manticores 19:07:12 though hopefully you don't see too many of those in lair 19:07:36 Catoblepas are fascinating, if one of the rarest non-uniques...up there with Krakens. 19:08:03 'Calcifying Dust'...an effect for a single enemy. heh 19:08:25 they're cool 19:08:52 fr dust elementals 19:08:59 haha 19:09:21 -!- jbenedetto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:22 What makes Reavers interesting compared to Deep Elf Destroyers? 19:09:43 they exist 19:09:54 and they aren't exclusively blasters 19:11:06 they can do melee, they summon battlespheres, they toss freezing clouds at you. all of those change the way you fight them (mainly the clouds) 19:11:18 also they can fly 19:11:44 I actually have more of an idea for Demigods than the others. Halfling, I've never played and can't even say much about the race in general. Felid...I see mostly as a fragile caster. I know Felid Berserkers are a thing, but... 19:13:14 has it occurred to you that the game doesn't actually need to have every player race represented as an enemy type? 19:15:33 Tell that to whoever addd Octopodes, Reavers, Formacids (at the same time they became a player race), Spriggan forest, et. all. It's just an incongruency that most are represented, but not...quite...all. 19:15:56 who cares 19:16:03 Bcadren: we have 19:16:08 tengu are in the game because they're interesting casters 19:16:11 you'll note that that isn't an argument of any sort 19:16:11 the devs are just racist 19:16:14 spriggans are an infuriating but distinct enemy type 19:16:25 octopodes & formicids are bad and boring and should be removed (as enemy types) 19:16:37 note how formicid enemies have been removed 19:16:41 o 19:16:47 I saw a formicid venom mage in my most recent game 19:16:49 have they been removed since? 19:17:07 oh, those still exist 19:17:09 the venom mages still exist, they could probably go too though 19:17:10 i'll fix that soon 19:17:13 haha 19:17:14 excellent 19:17:22 they're not as bad as the generic ones but they're also not interesting 19:18:11 Octopode enemies aren't bad, they are a bit too rare to be interesting though... 19:18:37 It seems to me that there need to be some "not interesting" enemies in order for interesting enemies to be interesting, there needs to be a backdrop of "regular" for the extrordinary to be a thing. 19:18:43 they don't do anything 19:18:50 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:52 by the time they show up, they're rat-tier 19:18:53 Not to say that those particular enemies should or shouldn't be. 19:19:18 counterpoint: I think it's good for most enemies to be interesting & to require different tactics 19:19:27 not to be extraordinarily *strong*, vs the player 19:19:39 but to be distinctive & at least potentially threatening 19:19:51 Keanan: yeah, but we do have a decent number of those still 19:19:59 octopodes are the following: 19:20:01 --a source of hats 19:20:06 Yeah, I'm not saying we don't have enough "regular" enemies 19:20:14 I'm just saying there should exist some. 19:20:24 (Like it shouldn't be a goal to get rid of all of them) 19:20:28 shoals already has loads of merfolk 19:20:35 which are generally trash but can be dangerous if they grab the wrong weapon 19:20:55 octopode (11x) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 40-73 | AC/EV: 1/5 | Dam: 24, 503(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(10), 12drown | XP: 475 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:20:55 %??octopode 19:21:08 merfolk (04m) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 10 | HP: 45-65 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 22 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, amphibious | Res: 06magic(40), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 302 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:21:08 %??merfolk 19:21:12 check out that ac/ev 19:21:28 ahah and 10 mr. wtf 19:21:32 and +50% xp 19:21:33 why 19:21:34 Yeah. That's why Op enemies are so easy. 19:21:49 Constriction used to be nastier than it is now(?) 19:22:00 yeah it was super nasty when it was first added, iirc 19:22:26 octopodes have 10 MR because they were originally not supposed to actually generate, so nobody cared about their MR 19:22:33 then people made them generate but didn't change the MR 19:22:35 oops 19:22:48 Yeah, they're super wimpy for how much xp they give. 19:23:00 death yak (08Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 56-97 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 30 | Res: 06magic(93) | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 873 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 19:23:00 %??Death yak 19:23:15 they aren't that wimpy really currently, they got buffed at least once 19:23:19 it's not like lair branches are known for giving a lot of exp 19:23:52 I don't think the xp matters so much, though it is funny 19:24:00 I just think they're super weak (sorry elliptic) 19:24:21 Yeah, no they are, I'd double their hps and give them a respectable EV and MR 19:24:47 There could be a Demigod enemy that uses some 'heal all' ability implying that he's closer to becoming a god than player Dg. 19:24:58 spriggans of the shoals 19:25:38 they aren't supposed to be one of the strongest monsters in shoals, you know 19:25:53 there's a difference between being 'not the strongest' and 'rat-tier' 19:26:03 they are really fairly comparable to merfolk in strength 19:26:17 octopode crusher (08x) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 81-115 | AC/EV: 1/18 | Dam: 35, 1003(constrict) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious, spellcaster, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(56), 12drown | XP: 1613 | Sp: throw icicle (3d23), melee | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:26:17 %??Octopode crusher 19:26:28 did anyone say octopodes are weak 19:26:36 we're not talking about crushers !!! 19:26:37 last I checked, rats didn't have Dam: 24, 5(constrict) and 56 HP 19:26:42 crushers seem cool but I've never seen them so idk 19:26:43 they might have been changed though 19:26:45 orange rat (04r) | Spd: 12 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 7/10 | Dam: 2013(drain) | evil | Res: 06magic(12) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 34 | Sz: little | Int: animal. 19:26:45 %??orange rat 19:26:49 wait no I killed one once 19:27:01 Are orange rats Hell-only now? 19:27:07 yeah, orange rat is significantly nastier than an octopode 19:27:09 nah they show up 19:27:35 anyway I don't think that the "octopode" monster serves much purpose, but that isn't a matter of it being too weak 19:27:35 what's that thing where you can make two guys fight 19:28:38 that's either discord/frenzy or infighting for the general term 19:28:40 "The Arena" ? 19:28:56 also i am completely far far away now 19:29:09 Keanan: yeah but you can get it up on termcast 19:30:32 Um, I don't know that you can. 19:30:45 I don't know that you can't, I've never tried. 19:31:01 ??!fight 19:31:02 !fight[1/4]: the best(/spammiest) invention since ever. telnet termcast.develz.org (FightClub channel) to watch. "!fight cancel" to end a fight that's stalled, or repeat the same command line with "cancel" at the end, e.g. !fight butterfly v butterfly cancel. 19:31:17 !fight orange rat v octopode t:10 delay:10 19:31:28 10-0 in favor of octopode 19:31:43 now can you please be quiet about octopode strength since you clearly have no idea what you are talking about 19:31:44 nice 19:31:54 !fight merfolk v octopode t:10 delay:10 19:32:11 9-1 merfolk 19:32:13 neat 19:32:28 I said "fairly" comparable :P 19:32:42 orange rat thing was admittedly a small exaggeration, though I think the drain still makes them more overall threatening than octopodes 19:33:29 idk I've spent way too many words on a small issue, especially when we both agree that vanilla octopodes enemies don't have a strong purpose right now 19:34:18 sorry 19:34:26 <|amethyst> perhaps constriction shouldn't depend so sharply on relative size 19:35:07 |amethyst: I honestly wouldn't mind if it didn't depend on size at all 19:35:24 constrict the stone giants toe 19:35:39 or a leg at least :P 19:36:53 does size currently affect constriction damage, or just whether you can constrict at all? 19:38:52 Why is everything in Late Zot so wtf? Curse Toes, Evil Corn on the Cob, etc. 19:44:34 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 19:47:22 don't orange rats come in packs 19:47:58 -!- ac13 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:43 <|amethyst> Bcadren: because Zot is supposed to be a strange and alien place 19:49:07 I think orange rats are solo 19:49:17 <|amethyst> Bcadren: before they were big purple Xs to match console, tiles orb guardians were fetal jelly babies 19:49:55 ...wtf? 19:50:19 yeah, tiles is weird 19:50:23 tiles is cool 19:50:26 cool kids play tile 19:50:28 s 19:50:36 cool adults play console 19:50:42 That leads to the question: Who is Zot? ...Also who do Hell knights worship? Is it Makhleb...or is there a separate Crawl devil? 19:50:47 hey 19:51:00 i would never let something like that slip by 19:51:00 ??the wizard's castle 19:51:00 THE WIZARD'S CASTLE[1/5]: MANY CYCLES AGO, IN THE KINGDOM OF N'DIC, THE GNOMIC WIZARD ZOT FORGED HIS GREAT *ORB OF POWER*. HE SOON VANISHED, LEAVING BEHIND HIS VAST SUBTERRANEAN CASTLE FILLED WITH ESURIENT MONSTERS, FABULOUS TREASURES, AND THE INCREDIBLE *ORB OF ZOT*. 19:51:06 no question 19:51:14 that is far too "weird" and not enough "scary" and "edgy" 19:51:24 crawl is a very edgy game 19:51:44 ??gnomic 19:51:44 I don't have a page labeled gnomic in my learndb. 19:51:47 ??gnome 19:51:48 gnome[1/1]: Woohoo, earth aptitude of 60, but spellcasting of 156. Least played and won race as of 0.4.5. They were cut and replaced by Deep Dwarves. 19:52:23 So the 'god of the realm' belonged to a race that's long sense been removed...interesting. 19:52:26 uhhhh 19:52:26 also maybe fighter should get -1 fighting/armour and +2 weaponskill 19:52:30 gnomic does not mean 'a gnome' 19:52:37 when did zot become a god 19:52:46 because starting at 2 axes with a 1.5 delay weapon (and a shield) is kinda harsh 19:53:13 gnomic: expressed in or of the nature of short, pithy maxims or aphorisms. 19:53:26 huh? 19:53:59 Well if he wasn't a god, why do so many races and beings including hell itself protect the runes needed to access the orb? 19:54:11 "characterized by... saying or writing using few words that are difficult to understand" 19:54:17 paraphrasing from m-w 19:54:19 human fighters start with 3 axes 19:54:21 also: he is a wizard 19:54:23 a wizard did it 19:54:27 that is the entire explanation 19:54:57 maybe it should be 4, but I'd rather stick with the current skills for 0.14 at least 19:55:07 oh wait, they start with 4 axes 19:55:14 what are you complaining about 19:55:26 oh, no, I can't read 19:55:31 yeah, 2 is low 19:56:12 giving 3 and reducing armour by 1 to compensate is what I would suggest 19:56:15 With as much lore is there is around some of the spells (including Wizlabs) and most the gods...you'd think lore around what Zot:5 and the orb you are after is...would be...important? 19:56:26 * geekosaur still thinks whoever created the orb delved too deep, found the hells, was murdered by the panlords who took over the orb 19:56:57 ...but Zot:5 looks nothing like Pan. 19:56:58 panlords in hell!? 19:57:07 sorry pan 19:57:13 I knew I had somethingw rng there 19:57:29 crawl's strength is minimal, understated lore 19:57:33 (come to think of it with that typing maybe I'm slipping a bit) 19:57:44 because fantasy is garbage and the more seriously you take it & the more detail you put in, the worse it becomes 19:58:03 crawl is just a fun game with vague, evocative hints at broader shit in the background 19:58:04 panlords extended the dungeon to hells and abyss 19:58:14 and that is as it should be 19:58:21 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 19:58:33 .... 19:58:54 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:09 %git :/save it for the book 19:59:50 Could not find commit :/save it for the book (git returned 128) 19:59:50 tl;dr: I cut fannar's backstory & I'd do it again 19:59:50 chei's taking it easy, I see 19:59:50 as he does 20:00:06 %git :/novel 20:00:06 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-1120-gdb05fb1: Axe a bunch of redundant arena sprint renames. 10(4 months ago, 2 files, 3+ 48-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=db05fb10af51 20:00:20 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:00:40 %git :/Fannar 20:00:40 07PleasingFungus02 {MarvinPA} * 0.14-a0-2768-g2cd3c76: Cleaned up some uniques' descriptions. 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 10+ 28-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2cd3c76d0f90 20:00:44 bam 20:00:53 yeh, needed uppercase S on Save 20:03:06 I like clear backstory and soem explanation about how magic works, etc. 20:03:18 here is how magic works 20:03:20 it is magic 20:03:23 have you ever come to the wrong place 20:04:13 What are the defined rules of mana and alchemy in how the magic manifests that make the laws of physics different in this world than our own? 20:05:59 -!- Xenobreeder_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:41 Yea some of my suggestions/thoughts are as much about explaning more of the world as they are about gameplay... 20:06:58 oh my god 20:09:02 When I make my own stuff there's a clear explanation about the full rules of the world, which crawl does seem to have, even though all the gods are very evil, including the ones that have an arbitrary moral code and kill over moral superiority...it's an interesting asthetic. 20:09:13 I started playing because the food system is so complicated though. 20:09:18 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:10:23 <|amethyst> not evil, just old-testament :) 20:11:09 Bcadren: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Evil#Ambiguity_in_the_Crawl_notion_of_.27Evil.27 is this you 20:11:10 <|amethyst> and/or Greco-Roman 20:13:31 No. but I like the concept. For my degree I wrote a paper on starvation mechanics in games...I first played crawl as research for that. 20:15:00 What I really like about crawl though is the gods and if I ever grabbed an element from it that's found nowhere else...it would be that. 20:16:15 I will say though, by tying hunger into magic, god abilities, et. all...it's the most complicated hunger system I studied...though my favorite of those was the one in Pathologic. Heh. I'm going to run take a shower. PEACE. 20:17:53 he's gonna be really sad when hunger is removed in 0.15 20:19:00 -!- G_Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:01 is there a reason why smoke clouds seem to block umbra even when they don't block LOS? 20:27:53 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 20:28:38 -!- Laraso has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:08 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:48 -!- fitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:31:08 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0a1/20140313030202]] 20:38:00 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all!] 20:38:21 It's being removed? O_O; 20:40:52 I admit, though it's complicated and I enjoyed studying its details...for practical purposes, it's mostly tedium. 20:41:18 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:43:42 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 20:45:27 my favourite video game food system was the one in pac-man 20:45:42 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 20:47:13 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:39 -!- Lasty1 has joined ##crawl-dev 20:49:07 that system was too complicated for me 20:49:12 never understood it 20:49:55 DracoOmega: I have this webtiles deterministic poison display almost working, just have to figure out why the poison portion isn't going away when poison ends 20:50:20 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:50:43 deterministic? 20:50:44 DracoOmega: I have to turn poison_survival() into a player property and recalculate it with the former (renamed) function, so I'll probably need you to double-check that 20:51:20 -!- joosa has joined ##crawl-dev 20:51:31 -!- joosa is now known as joos 20:58:54 gammafunk: I wrote poison_survival(), so I can take a look at that part at least 20:59:24 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 20:59:49 -!- Lasty1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:28 -!- jday_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:06:06 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:06:42 -!- joos has quit [] 21:07:45 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:40 -!- tabstorm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:09 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 21:12:22 -!- Laraso_ has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 21:15:50 -!- ac13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:20 FR rename unseen horror to invisible horror 21:16:29 because its not unseen when you have see invisible 21:17:59 invisible horror (invisible) 21:18:09 is that a serious suggestion 21:18:34 "unseen horror" is just the name of the monster 21:18:49 that doesn't mean it's literally true 100% of the time for everybody 21:23:23 How would a race that's supposedly non-physical, therefore has 'infinite AC' [not affected by physical blows] but elemental weaknesses play out? ...[A literal ghost race.] 21:23:53 Bcadren: considering that almost all elemental attacks check AC, probably not very well 21:23:54 Well, you'd have to handicap it pretty terribly in other ways. 21:24:06 It'd be pretty damned boring, even given the limitations of the engine. 21:24:08 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:25:14 Weak to draining, light and fire damage, immune to 'plain' damage. 21:25:47 in fact I can only think of two elemental attacks that could actually hurt someone with infinite AC 21:25:56 white draconian breath and static discharge 21:26:06 these are not very common 21:27:10 if you change it from "infinite AC" to "immune to physical damage" then you have to define what physical damage is 21:27:23 would smite do 0 damage? what about the non-resistible part of throw icicle? 21:28:21 (not that it is a good idea even if you do - crawl is overwhelmingly "plain" damage outside of a few places) 21:31:06 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:22 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:07 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 21:36:51 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:37:09 does crawl have a separate damage type for weapon damage? 21:37:42 not as i understand it 21:45:30 hey do jumping boots work on allied monsters or just enemy? 21:46:07 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:21 both, though of course the monster won't be friendly once you attack it 21:48:06 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:25 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:51:29 You are, of course, right...only Smiting, wizard attacks and any weapon brands in orc would be non-plain...hmm 21:52:04 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:43 -!- Hailley has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:07 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 21:54:57 -!- LordSloth has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:07 rPlain, might be a reasonable tool, Plain immunity would be too much...even for an enemy... 22:00:34 It's called "AC". 22:00:38 Most players want it. 22:00:56 See also EV for stochastic rPlain. 22:01:12 Specific damage reduction for just 'plain' damage, not all damages that check AC. 22:01:24 -!- Sodji has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:03:15 Bcadren: well the fact that you are not interested in actually defining 'plain' kind of speaks for itself 22:05:03 Plain means 'physical' damage. Melee, Iron Shot, etc. Doesn't include smiting, Airstrike or elemental damage. 22:09:52 Bcadren: ffs for the fifth or sixth time: there is no 'physical' damage in the game that includes iron shot and melee but not airstrike or smiting 22:12:52 I know it's not defined, we have definitions of which melees are 'piercing, slicing, etc.' but those aren't really used for anything. 22:14:21 -!- tgcid has joined ##crawl-dev 22:16:59 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:06 -!- Pisano has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:19:14 -!- Crehl_ has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 22:22:16 What if 'Plain' was just things that current check AC, but nothing else and exclude things that don't check anything. [like Smiting] 22:23:34 If it helps you any Bcadren, Plain as an element sounds strange and unnatural to me in the context of hellfire and raw chaos. 22:23:55 When you're hurt, you're hurt, and the defensiness should be based on delivery. 22:24:11 "Plain" sounds like it would confuse more than clarify. 22:24:33 these iron shots aren't very tasty 22:24:57 They're fun to serve though. 22:25:00 "Physical" as opposed to elemental is what I meant. Some most Earth, some Air Magic and all physical attacks. 22:25:15 What is elemental other than another form of physical? 22:25:30 I'm terming it plain because that's how it shows up. 22:25:33 These distinctions continue to sound strange relative to magical distinctions, which is saying something. 22:25:38 rat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 1-4 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | Res: 06magic(1) | XP: 1 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 22:25:38 %??rat 22:26:29 Ahh it doesn't here, but it says Dam: 3, Plain in other areas (as opposed to Dam: 3 (Draining), Dam: 3 Freezing, etc.) 22:26:55 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:26 So it's /exactly/ and unnesseccary distinction? This is beginning to sound like crash-prone thought. 22:28:40 rDrown is around and the damage type it refers to is very rare (Phial of Floods is the only player source, Water Elementals, Elemental Wellsprings and Merfolk Aquamancers are the full list of users). 22:29:21 Yup. rDrown would be unneccessary too if it was the most common thing and everything else had a name. 22:29:37 Cool, isn't it? 22:30:38 -!- randart has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:44 What if 'Plain' was just things that current check AC, but nothing else and exclude things that don't check anything. [like Smiting] 22:31:01 so 'plain' includes bolt of fire, then? 22:31:20 Ahh it doesn't here, but it says Dam: 3, Plain in other areas (as opposed to Dam: 3 (Draining), Dam: 3 Freezing, etc.) 22:31:30 Nope; excluded by his second requirement. 22:31:35 Bcadren: maybe you should go try playing ToME 22:31:37 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:31:39 the 3 part of Dam: 3(drain) is EXACTLY THE SAME as the Dam: 3 on the rat 22:31:58 what you want is what it has, and it works, but it's not crawl's system 22:32:04 and it is very, very different 22:32:11 ToME? 22:32:18 Tales of Maj'Eyal 22:32:24 Eronarn: sorry but I have to disagree with that 22:32:30 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:32:34 Eronarn: tome4's damage type system isn't nearly as insane as this 22:32:47 Hmm, I need more context. 22:32:58 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:01 Sounds like renaming and a couple resistance switches to me. 22:33:02 minmay: it actually is nowadays, they added a bunch of weird extra damage types 22:33:06 gravity, shadowflame, dreamforge, etc. 22:33:23 yes, I have noticed 22:33:40 I remember people commending gravity damage, whatever that is. 22:33:52 physical damage that has a chance to pin 22:33:57 Ah, pinning. 22:34:01 but at least dreamforge means half fire and half mind 22:34:08 whereas bcadren's definition of 'plain' changes every 30 seconds 22:34:12 dreamforge 22:34:31 they were a pretty good band in the eighties 22:34:31 and so far in all observed cases it is self-contradicotry 22:34:34 contradictory* 22:34:41 minmay: i'm sorry that it took you this long to realize that Bcadren has only bad ideas 22:34:42 but he has a degree in game design so 22:35:02 I'm refering to a race that isn't physical so they take reduced damage from physical sources. I'm not changing the definition, I'm trying to refine it. 22:35:17 Why do you want that race in crawl? 22:35:22 how do you propose to refine something without changing it 22:35:23 because he's bcadren 22:35:25 I don't think crawl is set up for it. 22:35:28 Bcadren: so you're saying it should be possible for something to resist specifically non-elemental damage? 22:35:52 G_Flex: no he said physical, don't you know what physical means 22:36:11 well physical damage is basically all damage so 22:36:20 except maybe draining/pain??? 22:36:27 Yeah, crawl has "souls". 22:36:36 asphyx probably ignores armor too? 22:36:51 ??constriction 22:36:51 constriction[1/5]: Nagas, octopodes (both player and monster), ball pythons, anacondas and tentacled monstrosities get this as an extra attack. Holds the target in place and deals increasing damage over time. 22:37:07 constriction checks half of AC 22:37:09 or something weird like that 22:37:14 doesn't ignore it 22:37:14 i'm thinking curare 22:37:19 yes 22:37:24 weird! 22:37:27 curare damage probably ignores it 22:37:31 ??curare 22:37:32 curare[1/2]: A type of poison that will slow you, poison you, and do large impact damage (called asphyxiation). To avoid it you can use stealth and eXamine to avoid being in any blowgun wielding creature's line of fire for too long. Poison resistance prevents the poisoning and asphyxiation, as well as the slowing (being undead will too). 22:37:35 or actually honestly i have no idea 22:37:39 'large impact damage' 22:37:50 glad that's settled 22:38:18 So curare gets out of your blood and punches you as you walk it off. 22:38:41 testing this in wizmode is hard because actually getting curare to *trigger* with 5000 AC is very hard 22:38:47 I dunno it's something different enough to be interesting... rN- is another interesting tool that's never been implemented/used. 22:39:23 rN- doesn't sound particularly interesting at all 22:39:58 -!- DeathrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:52 anyway it seems to me that curare's impact damage is unaffected by AC but whether it triggers at all depends on AC (like with poisoned needles) 22:41:15 Curare punches from the inside then. 22:41:31 Bcadren: Do you have a list of tweakable things in the current codebase that haven't been tweaked and your just going down it? 22:41:37 What other things are in your list? 22:42:03 rN- would be a weakness to pain and draining. *shrug* we have Fire, Ice, poison and electric weakness...We don't have Acid weakness either... 22:42:20 (Electric weakness? Where?) 22:42:48 well you have to keep in mind bcadren has explicitly said that he considers complexity inherently good 22:42:56 -!- Mad_Wack has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:43:52 Hm. Bcadren, are you mistaking complexity for negentropy like minmay suggests? 22:44:41 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 22:45:50 Nevermind we don't have elec weakness either. Electric and Acid weaknesses might be pretty pointless though...Outside of electric Zig and Lom Lobon's Pan Electric damage is rare. Acid even more so (just Oklobs and Slimes). 22:46:04 Pain/Draining is common enough that a weakness to it could be meaningful 22:47:09 =[ 22:50:09 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:55:30 I might be understating on Electric, Storm Dragons have the breath and a number of casters have it on their lists...just Electric Zig, to a lesser extent some versions of Zot: 5 (electric golems) and Lom Lobon's Pan are the only areas where it is the primary threat. 22:55:37 hedonist race, reverse damage shaving: takes extra pain on all hits 22:59:17 ?/emos 22:59:18 Matching entries (1): dieselteamideas[36]: Team Angst: FEAKONALEASH, CRAWLINGINMYSKIN, EMOS 22:59:19 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:27 -!- Escalator_ is now known as Escalator 23:01:01 -!- SoulEvans_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:03:03 ??? 23:03:04 I don't have a page labeled ? in my learndb. Did you mean: !, #, &, *, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, d, o, t, v, ©. 23:04:07 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:09:37 -!- _miek has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:10:28 -!- wat1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:45 elliptic,DracoOmega: Patch that fixes poison display in WebTiles: http://sprunge.us/aBKL?diff 23:12:27 The first commit could use a once-over to make sure that poison_survival is being recalculated whenever it should be 23:12:51 -!- _aardvark has quit [] 23:13:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:13:32 Tomorrow I could set up my webserver with a test webtiles build that others can try, but i've tested it in a local webtiles 23:16:22 gammafunk: you need to calculate poison_survival more frequently than that 23:16:48 gammafunk: see my recent commit fixing the regular HP bar not being updated frequently enough 23:18:15 gammafunk: it basically needs to be updated every turn you are poisoned, since it depends on your regen rate and nearly any action you take can change your regen rate 23:18:29 _An ancient zyme comes into view. The bush looks sick. The demonic plant looks sick. The bush looks sick. The bush looks sick. The demonic plant looks sick. The bush looks sick. The bush looks sick. (3x) 23:22:56 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:59 demonic plant (05P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 10 | HP: 39-70 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 23:22:59 %??demonic plant 23:23:13 withered plant (14P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 10 | HP: 40-70 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 23:23:13 %??withered plant 23:26:03 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:20 plant (03P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 10 | HP: 38-70 | AC/EV: 10/0 | 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 0 | Sz: small | Int: plant. 23:26:20 %??plant 23:28:17 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:31:09 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:14 elliptic: I do the calculation in handle_poison, that's not enough? 23:31:40 hm, I guess it might be 23:31:42 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 23:31:56 bush (07P) | Spd: 070 | HD: 20 | HP: 86-133 | AC/EV: 15/0 | 03plant | Res: 13magic(immune), 03poison, 12drown, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 0 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 23:31:56 %??bush 23:31:56 handle_player_poison I mean 23:31:56 it depends on when other stuff happens relative to handle_poison in the turn cycle 23:32:38 Perhaps high EV is more reasonable than some kind of rPlain. rN-, rElec- and rAcid- might be worth considering for something though...player or enemy. 23:32:43 well handle_player_poison should be called every turn the player is poisoned, at least 23:33:27 right, the question is whether anything that changes regen rate happens after handle_player_poison is called and before the player gets another input 23:33:41 e.g. PbD expiring 23:33:59 or even expiration of regular regeneration 23:34:14 hrm, handle_player_poison is called in main.cc from _decrement_durations 23:35:11 and that's called in _player_reacts, called in world_reacts() 23:36:32 also probably calc_poison_survival() should be called when the player is first poisoned 23:36:41 or any time the poison is increased 23:37:16 in poison_player() I guess 23:38:14 -!- gnum has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:53 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:59 it looks like monsters act after the handle_player_poison call, anyway 23:39:17 so monsters could just do damage to the player and it would need to be recalculated 23:40:13 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3348-g998ff18: Deduplicate some altar Lua functionality. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 21+ 36-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=998ff18f7b4a 23:40:15 elliptic: that's handled in the hp change functions 23:40:15 well, actually 23:41:04 well, we don't want to calculate it after every hit to the player I think, but rather before their next turn begins 23:41:13 the player's next turn, I mean 23:42:05 Is there a way to make something react less to physical (the plain damage before the added effect on melee and Magic that just checks AC)? 23:42:26 what happens currently if there is a -more- midway through the monsters acting? does it show the HP at that instant? 23:42:52 yeah, actually good point 23:42:53 (I don't remember the behavior) 23:43:01 -!- demiskeleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:08 I think the solution is to call the recalculation in the hp increment/decrement functions 23:44:07 that doesn't handle some weird things like PbD status ending because a monster cast animate dead :P 23:44:34 it might be good enough though to recalculate then and right before the player's turn begins, yeah 23:44:52 and in poison_player() 23:45:10 yeah, I think add the calculation to poison_player(), and hp change functions, and see what to do about regen rate changes 23:45:55 Maybe for that last one we can get a pre-turn recalculation in, since I'm not sure how regen is changed 23:46:03 probably there's no global inc/dec function like for hp 23:46:21 yeah, regen rate is just always computed on the fly 23:46:27 in player_regen() 23:46:47 -!- mfw56 is now known as _miek 23:46:48 ah, so it's not even a property 23:46:52 I don't think that tracking every change in regen rate is really practical though, since there are a lot of things that can happen 23:46:54 it's just a function call :p 23:47:05 yeah, in that case it pretty much needs to just happen pre-turn 23:47:08 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:47:49 !seen Medar 23:47:49 I last saw Medar at Sun Mar 16 21:20:59 2014 UTC (7h 26m 49s ago) quitting, saying 'Write error: Connection timed out'. 23:48:36 elliptic: I'll make an updated patch probably tomorrow, and maybe get a webtiles server for people to test, or perhaps |amethyst can make an experimental branch 23:48:46 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: Try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 23:48:47 so thanks for looking it over 23:49:03 -!- Ungaros has quit [Client Quit] 23:49:04 thanks for figuring out how webtiles works :P 23:49:17 heh, for small values of figuring it out 23:50:31 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:50:40 !tell Medar This gets deterministic poison basically working in WebTiles: http://sprunge.us/aBKL?diff 23:50:40 gammafunk: OK, I'll let medar know. 23:50:52 !tell Medar There are some crawl-side issues I have to fix, but let me know if you see anything amiss on the WebTiles side. 23:50:52 gammafunk: OK, I'll let medar know. 23:51:07 -!- djinni has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51:32 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:56:52 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 23:59:23 -!- Jazzimus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]