00:00:17 i had a rakshasa make 5 flayed ghosts i guess or something so i kinda just ran from that too 00:00:23 Haha 00:00:26 That sounds impressive 00:00:28 and now mara is in my game so i will have to deal with him. gonna give him some ledas action 00:00:49 * SamB still thinks Mara is a girl's name ... 00:00:57 (The copies have only 35% normal hp, for what it's worth) 00:01:11 !locate simmarine 00:01:11 simmarine was last seen on CSZO (simm, L21 DgAM of No God). 00:02:00 One two plinkeroo 00:04:18 -!- Sgun has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:05:56 I once read an adaptation of buddhist mythology which cast mara as female 00:05:58 so 00:06:03 that threw me off for a while 00:07:30 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 00:07:44 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3257-gc543470 (34) 00:08:13 * SamB read some Star Wars novels ... 00:08:46 haha 00:08:54 that's a different mara though !!! 00:09:05 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:09:15 mara jade is not the anthropomorphisation of illusion 00:09:18 probably 00:09:24 probably 00:09:43 idk I haven't followed those books in years, maybe she is now 00:09:45 anything's possible 00:09:55 but how would we be certain of the antropomorphisation of illusion's gender anyway? 00:10:20 pronouns 00:10:22 obviously 00:10:44 yes, because the anthropomorphisation of illusion never plays tricks on people! 00:11:40 that would be p rude 00:11:42 imho 00:12:03 man 00:12:06 why does changing gods suck so much 00:12:20 what, tricking people into using the wrong pronouns is "pretty rude"? 00:12:33 ya 00:12:46 literally 15k turns of waiting for okawaru to give up on murdering me 00:12:51 not dangerous 00:12:53 just boring 00:14:16 huh 00:14:26 supposedly it was very dangerous 00:14:33 %git :/wrath 00:14:33 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3118-gfec218c: Throttle back god wrath frequency. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fec218c2940d 00:14:35 That's one of the things I wanted to avoid with XP wrath... 00:14:37 time to revert 00:14:45 * Grunt reverts wheals 00:15:05 -!- wheals is now known as slaehw 00:15:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:13 it was hilariously lethal earlier yeah 00:15:14 PF: In trunk, waiting does you no good, you have to go kill stuff. 00:15:19 incorrect 00:15:21 that was reverted 00:15:23 or something 00:15:25 no 00:15:33 No it wasn't. 00:15:36 uh 00:15:39 I waited for 15k turns 00:15:43 and a bunch of oka wraths showed up 00:15:45 then he forgave me 00:16:04 !lm PleasingFungus x=cv 00:16:05 2037. [2014-03-12 03:41:27] [cv=0.14-a] PleasingFungus the Chief of Staff (L27 HuWn of The Shining One) killed Jory on turn 122633. (Crypt:5) 00:16:16 !lm pleasingfungus god.renounce=okawaru 00:16:16 3. [2014-03-12 02:56:57] PleasingFungus the Chief of Staff (L27 HuWn) abandoned Okawaru on turn 102270. (D:7) 00:16:37 Grunt: maybe some bug with the xp counter? 00:17:01 I'd have to watch the game from that point. 00:17:04 that sounds like the behavior if the xp counter has a ton of xp on it already 00:17:09 I'm just going to guess it's a minmax bug 00:17:11 !locate pleasingfungus 00:17:11 pleasingfungus was last seen on CAO (PleasingFungus, L27 HuWn of The Shining One). 00:17:18 !dump pleasingfungus 00:17:18 http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/PleasingFungus/PleasingFungus.txt 00:17:19 !lm . god.renounce=oka 00:17:19 No milestones for Basil (god.renounce=oka). 00:17:23 !lm . god.renounce=okawaru 00:17:23 2. [2014-03-04 21:25:16] Basil the Slayer (L27 NaGl) abandoned Okawaru on turn 77398. (D:6) 00:17:28 i thought it didn't count the xp from before you renounced 00:17:29 !lm . god.mollify 00:17:30 11. [2014-03-04 21:52:01] Basil the Slayer (L27 NaGl of The Shining One) mollified The Shining One on turn 84425. (Hell) 00:17:35 Not doing that now; I'm goimg to sleep soon... 00:17:48 ??oka wrath 00:17:48 okawaru wrath[1/1]: ABANDONMENT: 25 penance. RETRIBUTION: 1+XL/5 punishers, chosen from (orc warrior, orc knight, naga warrior, centaur warrior, stone giant, fire giant, frost giant, cyclops, hill giant, titan). Abjurable summons in 0.7, permanent summons in 0.8 (no xp or items). 00:17:51 117237 | Crypt:1 | Was forgiven by Okawaru 00:17:58 that doesn't look like D:7 00:18:01 That's ~12 punishments spread across 7000 turns 00:18:07 I sat around in vaults for a while 00:18:13 and waited in a good corridor 00:18:17 and he spawned wraths on me 00:18:32 I killed about half a dozen of them before getting bored and wandering into crypt 1 00:18:35 and waiting in a corridor there 00:18:35 That seems a little quick 00:18:54 it should require more xp than that for sure, anyway 00:19:15 kills in that period: two yaktaur packs, one ogre pack, one skele warrior pack, one ugly thing pack 00:19:17 nothing notable 00:19:33 I forget exactly how much but yeah, sounds like a bug somewhere 00:19:35 several wraths arrived one after the other with no non-wrath kills inbetween 00:19:37 ok 00:19:54 I know this bug has been around since at least around when djinn were removed 00:19:56 since 00:19:59 my last djinn had the same thing 00:20:10 when he renounced oka 00:20:30 Well, there was definitely a bug that caused it to trigger repeatedly without gaining xp 00:20:35 Which was (supposedly) fixed 00:20:46 And may or may not have been ACTUALLY fixed (or reintroduced, I guess) 00:22:40 I guess I could look at the code myself 00:22:42 but I really don't want to 00:22:47 it sounds like Fun Code 00:22:58 All Crawl code is fun code, of course! :P 00:23:00 A thrill a minute 00:23:06 ?/beem 00:23:06 Matching entries (1): goodcode[1]: beem.is_beam = false 00:23:22 well 00:23:26 it's a beem, not a beam 00:23:28 so that sounds accurate 00:23:32 ??goodcode[$ 00:23:33 goodcode[8/8]: Henzell discussing his programming ability: "You see, I gave up on Borland's [C++] manual (which is very good, I'm just lazy) when it started talking about pointers [....] After pointers came structs, enums, pragmas, classes, macros, and a whole lot of other stuff which still means nothing to me." 00:23:54 ??goodcode[7 00:23:54 goodcode[7/8]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_inverse_square_root#Overview_of_the_code 00:24:08 In fairness, I think a lot of the Crawl codebase is genuinely not bad, as much as people poke fun at it 00:24:29 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:32 s??goodcode[grep 00:24:32 goodcode[4/8]: grep -i //.*why.*? *.cc 00:24:33 It's a really very large and complex system that has been touched by many many hands 00:24:47 (Some bits are still cringe-inducing, of course) 00:25:05 <|amethyst> and has plenty of remnants of bygone days :) 00:25:12 beem 00:25:18 beeeeeeem 00:25:20 But plenty of it is pretty readable in isolation (a larger problem is often just figuring out how all the bits of it fit together) 00:26:06 and it's always full of surprises (i guess i should have expected a goto or two...still, that was pretty funny) 00:26:08 sure, yeah 00:26:17 slaehw: goto is not that bad! 00:26:18 I've seen much worse code 00:26:24 in much more professional contexts 00:26:30 yeah, goto has its place in c 00:26:31 Yes, there are actually situations where goto makes sense, surprisingly :P 00:26:37 Errors? 00:26:43 traditionally, yes 00:26:45 this was not really one where it was necessary at least 00:26:50 haha 00:27:14 in that i turned it into a control variable and removed it simply 00:27:15 <|amethyst> there are probably places where goto would improve the code :) 00:27:16 Well, I think there are uses that involve nested loop conditionals which are cumbersome to write in a way that doesn't involve one 00:27:22 true 00:27:57 'Goto considered harmful' is from an era where people were using them all over the place for simple stuff, keep in mind 00:28:13 Long since dead :P 00:28:45 this was for some simple stuff...one of the gotos i just replaced with a break! 00:28:52 Haha 00:28:58 ??goodcode[5 00:28:58 goodcode[5/8]: if (need_for_greed) 00:29:00 Okay, that sounds kind of bad 00:29:08 DracoOmega: yeah, I've hit situations where I really missed them in Python 00:29:33 ehhh 00:29:37 if you have deeply nested loops 00:29:39 well, probably break would have been enough anyway 00:29:42 you probably aren't breaking things up into enough functions 00:29:44 PleasingFungus: it wasn't that deep 00:30:02 I'd have to see it 00:30:41 it happens even with just 2-level loops in Python since there is no "break" 00:31:05 or, wait, only break? 00:31:08 whatever 00:31:27 it requires complicated gymnastics to break out of two levels at once, anyway 00:31:51 or at least awkward and inefficient gymnastics 00:31:58 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:32:04 the 'return' keyword is pretty powerful 00:32:06 i.m.h.o. 00:32:13 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:15 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 00:32:21 quite powerful 00:32:35 1learn add 00:33:24 well it's also bad practice to have more than one return in a function!!! 00:33:59 thats why I throw exceptions instead 00:34:04 hahaha 00:34:16 only wimps are afraid of multiple return 00:34:27 (you don't understand, I actually saw a student do this) 00:34:32 dogma 00:34:43 practice without understanding 00:35:00 <|amethyst> I teach the second programming class here, which introduces C++ and OO programming (first class is procedural in Python) 00:35:38 <|amethyst> It takes some convincing to get students to believe: 1. they can use multiple returns 2. they shouldn't comment every single line of code 00:35:53 <|amethyst> 3. that it's okay to use break 00:36:06 tbf, commenting every line of code is good practice 00:36:08 in assembly 00:36:17 Shouldn't comment every line of code? People do that? 00:36:29 I thought the problem was virtually always the inverse 00:36:32 Never comment anything :P 00:36:32 <|amethyst> PleasingFungus: I don't think so even there :) 00:36:44 eh. maybe not every line, but close 00:36:45 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: well, that's a bigger issue, yes :) 00:36:47 assembly is a thing 00:36:50 Yeah, commenting everything is definitely a thing I've seen 00:36:59 really i didn't know that multiple returns was frowned on by some 00:37:02 -!- slaehw is now known as wheals 00:37:08 hard to get further away from assembly than python, though. 00:37:15 wheals: it's a whole school of thought 00:37:19 it's kind of the same "goto is bad" argument 00:37:51 I mainly comment things I think are non-obvious (or especially that someone else will assume was a mistake, instead of deliberate for obscure reasons) 00:37:57 Or just general overview stuff 00:37:59 also in c it's a "leaking memory is bad" thing 00:38:10 DracoOmega: in assembly, everything is non-obvious 00:38:12 <|amethyst> it makes sense if you have cleanup 00:38:15 <|amethyst> and don't have RAII 00:38:51 Yes, assembly is a bit of a different ballpark 00:39:04 Which I have never done outside of a school context 00:39:05 c++ is weird getting used to. I've basically done no work with it before - some c, very very little c++. 00:39:12 was surprised to see there were default arguments for functions. 00:39:14 I often think Meph Cloud needs bumped up and Poison Cloud needs bumped down...just because AoE confusion is far more util than the damage of the Poison Cloud. 00:39:15 default/optional 00:39:19 me too (uh oh!) 00:39:54 I love default arguments. I really miss them in Java =/ 00:39:59 PleasingFungus: sometimes you can do things to make the assembly fairly obvious, allowing you to skip the comments on some lines 00:40:13 haha. yes, 'some' 00:40:17 <|amethyst> sometimes you have a macro assembler :) 00:40:20 I mean, to make parts fairly obvious 00:40:30 I don't think any of us are actually disagreeing here 00:40:30 <|amethyst> Sometimes that macro assembler is called "C" 00:40:37 c is a pretty good assembly 00:40:39 imho 00:40:44 C hasn't been a real assembler for a long time 00:40:50 it's kind of dangerous 00:40:54 sometimes you can use python instead of assembly 00:41:09 fr: rewrite crawl in python 00:41:16 So I was clearing Snake just now, and I wanted to mention: 00:41:18 ??fcrawl 00:41:18 fcrawl[1/5]: http://bpaste.net/raw/0mfJJgUDZ89kDH6gMIT0/ 00:41:20 s/python/assembly/ 00:41:21 I think the weird thing was just that I'm using to dealing with malloc/free coming from C. Then in crawl it's either a stack variable or a global variable, so C++ feels more like a scripting language 00:41:31 the thing that scares me the most in Snake right now is guardian serpents. <3 00:41:48 gammafunk: we do use new/delete ... 00:41:54 <|amethyst> not that often though 00:42:04 ??fcrawl[2 00:42:04 fcrawl[2/5]: D -> Orc:2 -> Lair -> D:9 -> Orc:3 -> Snake:1-2 -> Vaults:1-4 -> D:10 -> Snake:3 -> Vaults:5 -> Zot 00:42:05 Yeah, but you encounter it infrequently in the codebase (or at least I have) 00:42:09 <|amethyst> since most of our stuff (monsters, items) is in big static arrays 00:42:11 Only for fineffects, that I personally recall seeing 00:42:16 |amethyst: clearly or I wouldn't have needed to say it 00:42:29 well, I found one bug 00:42:42 could be enough to be responsible for this 00:42:43 <|amethyst> UI code uses a fair amount of new 00:42:50 elliptic: oh? 00:42:51 elliptic: In god wrath? 00:42:51 elliptic: only one bug? 00:42:52 <|amethyst> as do procedural layouts 00:43:46 Grunt: ad24b6b0 incorrectly moved "you.attribute[ATTR_GOD_WRATH_COUNT]--;" inside an if in handle_god_time() 00:43:58 <|amethyst> gammafunk: the nice thing about using local variables for those kinds of things is that you get "garbage collection" for free :) 00:44:02 meaning that wrath requires 1/20 of the xp as it is supposed to 00:44:18 <|amethyst> gammafunk: and a very deterministic kind, which lets you do neat things 00:44:24 elliptic: doh 00:44:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk: see for example our unwind_var class 00:44:44 |amethyst: Yeah, crawl is complex enough to have to worry about any more memory allocation than you need to. 00:44:52 then you can revert fec218c! 00:45:15 well 00:45:17 I'm glad I could help 00:45:32 * SamB becomes slightly disoriented 00:45:36 <|amethyst> gammafunk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAII 00:45:44 %git fec218c 00:45:45 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3118-gfec218c: Throttle back god wrath frequency. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fec218c2940d 00:45:52 yeah, that might not be good now 00:46:05 depends on whether god wrath was in a good place before it got broken 00:46:57 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-3258-g7d051a2: Fix you.attribute[ATTR_GOD_WRATH_COUNT] not being decremented properly. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d051a235dcb 00:47:18 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:47:45 yeah, actually that should definitely be reverted 00:48:38 Which part? 00:48:57 it's one line 00:49:00 there's only one part, yes 00:49:53 I think I may have missed something 00:50:01 ??cheipoke 00:50:01 cheipoke[1/1]: http://s-z.org/cgi-bin/cheipoke 00:50:11 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-3259-g6ecec92: Revert "Throttle back god wrath frequency." 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ecec920f484 00:50:13 We're fixing god wrath bugs <_< 00:50:22 ....or rather, elliptic is! 00:50:24 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50:44 Oh, reverting the frequency reduction. Since the reason it was so high was a bug anyway. 00:50:48 yes 00:50:51 And thus probably didn't need to be reduced 00:50:55 Yes. 00:51:01 Okay, okay, now I'm on the same page :P 00:51:12 the net result of the bugfix and the reversion should be 5x slowing compared with the bugged version that is out there right now 00:51:24 huh 00:51:29 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:30 not sure if that is enough to account for what PleasingFungus reported, but it could well be 00:51:46 I guess I could test in wizmode 00:51:48 People need to go abandon more gods for playtesting >.> 00:52:12 to be clear: just waiting without gaining xp isn't supposed to trigger wrath, right? 00:52:19 wrath should only trigger after xp gains? 00:52:58 Wrath should happen shortly after XP gains. 00:52:59 it doesn't trigger instantly after xp gains; it might take 20 turns or something 00:53:12 but one effect of the bug was that it could take more turns 00:53:25 I think it's a 100-300 aut timer? 00:53:28 yeah 00:53:28 ok 00:53:59 you might in theory have stored up multiple attempts if you just gained a lot of xp, meaning that it could take a couple hundred turns 00:54:10 (i.e. triggers every 100-300 aut, so wrath could happen 1-299 aut after XP gain or so; maybe longer if you gain a lot of XP in that span) 00:56:53 -!- poopfist42 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:58:33 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:59 It bothers me that some gods have wraths that are deadly at low level but shruggable later (like Beogh, Fedhas and Lugonu) while others only affects are equally deadly regardless of level (most notably Sif) 00:59:34 oh shit, I invoked the wrath of No God 00:59:48 You suffer the terrible wrath of No God. 00:59:52 yess 00:59:58 how do I place an altar of oka? 01:00:15 ( altar:something? 01:00:22 You can &^oka to go directly to the worship screen if that's what you want. 01:00:26 you could just do the "get religion" command ... 01:00:27 It also places an altar where you are. 01:00:41 &^ just tells me I'm not religious 01:00:42 which is, yes, kind of stupid like that but there you go 01:00:44 isn't that &_ 01:00:50 yrd 01:00:51 Er. 01:00:53 Right. 01:00:54 yes 01:00:57 &? will solve this gordian knot by telling you what wizmode commands are 01:01:15 but it only works if you can actually find the right one 01:01:15 &(altar_okawaru will give you just the altar if you wannt one. 01:01:17 *want 01:01:19 Wrath of No God? 01:01:33 Bcadren: wizomode command to get wrath 01:01:37 Reminds me of 78291 getting demonspawn shadow creatures.. 01:01:45 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:52 Bcadren: it has interesting results if you don't worship anyone! 01:01:56 Your torturous warmonger calls down the wrath of NO GOD against something. 01:02:11 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:32 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:35 ok. waited 10k turns, no signs of wrath 01:02:37 looks good to me 01:03:03 (this was after using &_oka & abandoning) 01:03:29 PleasingFungus: now kill a few things one at a time and wait between that? 01:03:35 &M to make monsters 01:04:41 <|amethyst> &_ creates the altar too, btw 01:04:59 oo, d:1 orc knight 01:05:02 I guess that's just antiscum, though 01:05:05 <|amethyst> and you can always say "no" 01:05:54 !lg * d:1 max=tdam x=tdam 01:05:56 866694. [tdam=88] Brel the Magician (L2 MuWz), blasted by a tengu reaver (fireball) on D:1 on 2014-02-06 02:56:33, with 21 points after 9769 turns and 0:01:37. 01:06:04 I 01:06:06 uh 01:06:07 hm. 01:06:18 mummies. 01:06:31 what's a good high-xp enemy 01:07:05 Cerebov (05&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 21 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 30/8 | Dam: 60 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(168), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1070 | Sp: fire storm (8d16), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon / fire storm (8d17), iron shot (3d36), haste, sum.greater demon | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 01:07:05 <|amethyst> %?? cerebov hp:1 perm_ench:paralysis 01:07:10 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:07:17 <|amethyst> hm, maybe not 01:07:28 100 HD rat looked good 01:07:29 rat (07r) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 1/10 | Dam: 3 | Res: 06magic(133) | XP: 933 | Sz: tiny | Int: animal. 01:07:29 %??rat hd:100 hp:1 01:07:30 earlier 01:07:34 <|amethyst> :) 01:07:37 hm 01:07:46 stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(533), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 6322 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 01:07:46 %??stone giant hd:100 hp:1 01:08:00 orb of fire (05*) | Spd: 15 | HD: 100 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 20/20 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | XP: 8795 | Sz: little | Int: normal. 01:08:00 %??orb of fire hd:100 hp:1 spells:. 01:08:31 test spawner (16X) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%; 07stationary) | HD: 1000 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 127/127 | 11non-living, amphibious, regen | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 07acid, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm++ | XP: 15000 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 01:08:31 %??test spawner hp:1 spells:. 01:09:07 I can't hit it 01:09:33 Dissolution (13J) | Spd: 10 | HD: 100 | HP: 1 | AC/EV: 10/1 | Dam: 5008(acid:7d3), 3008(acid:7d3) | 04eats items, priest, sense invisible, regen | Res: 06magic(933), 03poison, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown, 08holy | XP: 15000 | Sp: sum.eyeballs | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 01:09:33 <|amethyst> %?? dissolution hp:1 hd:100 perm_ench:paralysis 01:09:38 <|amethyst> there we go 01:09:43 <|amethyst> XP mod of 60 :) 01:09:52 anyway, killed some thousands of xps of enemies so far, no sign of oka wrath 01:09:58 double checking... yeah, he's still mad at m 01:09:59 e 01:10:08 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:27 well, the wrath effects are only every 400 turns on average even if you gained all the xp 01:10:34 ah 01:10:36 there it goes 01:10:37 ok 01:10:58 ~ 01:11:07 So basically the god's kind of lazing around and every now and then he goes "oh right there's this guy FUCK YOU" 01:11:11 (the 10-30 turn timer is just for a 1/20 chance of turning xp into wrath) 01:12:01 you should also get an average of 10 wrath effects per xl, and 12.5 wrath effects before oka wrath ends 01:12:09 -!- MakMorn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:21 ok. I'm going to bed. 01:13:27 I will dream of angry chokos. 01:14:11 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0a1/20140309030204]] 01:14:41 so I just learned that CKR has a version of trunk that is 700 commits old 01:14:44 and people are playing it 01:14:58 this seems suboptimal 01:16:09 (mainly because it still has Dj :P) 01:16:17 ??ckr 01:16:17 ckr[1/1]: Unofficial crawl server (webtiles-only) located in Korea. http://kr.dobrazupa.org:8080/ 01:17:32 <|amethyst> elliptic: yeah, ckr probably needs to be updated manually 01:17:44 <|amethyst> !seen sd1989 01:17:44 I last saw sd1989 at Fri Feb 14 19:58:33 2014 UTC (3w 4d 10h 19m 11s ago) quitting, saying 'Ping timeout: 245 seconds'. 01:18:19 <|amethyst> !tell sd1989 any chance you could update trunk? And 0.14 is coming soon 01:18:19 |amethyst: OK, I'll let sd1989 know. 01:23:54 Real Soon Now 01:24:50 -!- MakMorn has joined ##crawl-dev 01:25:12 did anyone ever look into getting ckr a bot? sd1989 said when asked that he wanted to do it but didn't know how 01:26:01 I can't think of anything left other than watching for things that need more balancing (esp the just-adjusted stuff), some vaults (whatever's going on with the forest vaults; also todo: figure out what to do with TSO volcano), and those two last monster tiles. 01:26:33 (clearly we all need to win a game or three in the next week or so , 01:26:37 there's the shop interface in 8252 01:26:40 <_< 01:27:06 it's already been changed, might as well get more changes in before the release 01:27:58 Grunt: do you think we should branch soon? 01:28:14 "soon" should be when we get all of the above worked out. 01:28:54 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:37 MarvinPA, I'd be interested in your opinion on #8195 (I think I've figured out what I think about it, but I want an outside viewpoint or two). 01:29:41 -!- andendau has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 01:29:49 * Grunt goes to sleep. 01:30:46 I have a bit of a bug. Temple spawned, but doesn't seem to be reachable. 01:31:15 Or maybe it didn't spawn IDK. 01:31:48 D is fully explored down to nine and it wasn't seen. 01:31:50 can you see temple behind translucent stone 01:31:54 did you check every stair 01:32:18 chances are unless you messed with the source temple is somewhere in your game 01:33:15 I haven't and I don't care enough to hunt for it (Abyssal Knight) it's just weird 01:35:27 if you havent checked every stair then you didnt fully explore the levels 01:35:44 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:44 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:02 I confirmed the main ones there's one vault that's stone on the outside...could be in there, but it'd have to be trapdoor access or something 01:44:24 -!- gnum has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:22 Bcadren: have you SEEN every stair in those levels? 01:51:52 I'd say I did, but that character died so I can't reconfirm (bad Tele in an ice cave) 01:54:33 see, that's a really bad bug-hunting move 01:54:36 don't do that 01:55:02 * SamB goes to bed too 01:55:25 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:57:09 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:57:53 I was playing not specifically bug hunting. If you want to know though I think bad interaction between encompass vault that put all three stairs together and entry vault. 01:59:34 -!- home_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:59:48 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:03:58 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:04:28 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 02:10:12 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:17 So countertraining is being removed that official? 02:16:33 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3259-g6ecec92 (34) 02:16:35 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 02:16:53 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:06 -!- bananaken has quit [] 02:17:33 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:18:18 -!- F-Glex has quit [Quit: Time for us to bug out.] 02:19:11 -!- Sorbius_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:06 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:22:30 -!- tksquared has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:43 -!- fearitself has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:24:48 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26:35 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:31:53 -!- Grujah has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:52 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 02:34:17 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:31 -!- utrick has joined ##crawl-dev 02:43:57 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:45:10 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:51 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:51:09 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:57:38 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:02:09 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:25 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 03:02:26 -!- rast- is now known as rast 03:03:06 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:08 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:03:34 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:21 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:06:25 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:07:18 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:07:19 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 03:07:39 I just died via computer crash. I didn't know that was quite possible. 03:09:45 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:10:28 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:13:20 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:59 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:17 -!- utrick has quit [] 03:15:29 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:16:42 -!- Cryp71c_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:28 -!- blackcustard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:43 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:44 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:22:41 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25:31 -!- ac13 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:38 -!- MiraclePrism has quit [] 03:28:14 -!- scummos| has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:19 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:35:47 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:53 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:41:54 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:59:49 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: zzz] 04:01:01 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:18:56 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:24:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:30 -!- Wolfechu_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:33:38 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:34:22 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:42:59 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:51:13 spituna (L16 DEWz) ERROR in 'mon-movetarget.cc' at line 115: ZotDef: monster burning bush failed to pathfind to (39,17) (the Orb) (Zot (ZotDef)) 04:54:44 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:18 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:59:09 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00:09 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:03:13 Can't recover health and magic by '5' key by nubinia 05:13:21 -!- myp has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:15:09 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:16:38 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 05:17:01 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:15 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 05:19:15 -!- sk3 has quit [] 05:20:33 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:22:57 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:24:17 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:26:56 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 05:28:31 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 05:29:23 "A powerful demon, Roucon has a bruised and bleeding body with sacs of gas hanging from its back." 05:29:29 Is... This a randomgenned Pan lord? 05:32:25 -!- Wolpertinger has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59:11 forum duties worked off 06:00:09 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:00:49 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:01:06 Quick question; isn't the learndb on crawl.develz.org supposed to be in sync with the one edited on these IRC channels? 06:01:21 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:02:53 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 06:04:56 -!- soundlust|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:32 -!- sgiratch has quit [Changing host] 06:20:05 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:42 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:46:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:48:44 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:49:44 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:09 -!- truemonolith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:56:43 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:01:35 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:17 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:27 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:36 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:17:59 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:29 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:20:08 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:37:04 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:37:36 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:41:39 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:18 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:49:59 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:31 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 07:55:35 agentcrap (L21 HaAK) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (Depths:2) 07:55:46 -!- Pacra has quit [Quit: welp cya] 07:55:57 agentcrap (L21 HaAK) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (Depths:2) 07:59:44 -!- ainsophy_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:00:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:00:52 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:07:06 -!- ainsophy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:13:03 -!- radinms has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:13:20 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:15:57 !tell DracoOmega If you transfer a save past rakshasa changes, and there is a rakshasa already generated, the game will crash when it tries to cast a spell. For example: !crashlog agentcrap 1 08:15:58 Medar: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 08:16:51 <|amethyst> Medar: working on it 08:16:56 Oh :) 08:17:18 <|amethyst> probably SPELL_PHANTOM_MIRROR should have just replaced SPELL_FAKE_RAKSHASA_SUMMON instead of the latter being scheduled for removal 08:17:42 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:23 Arhiman (L11 TrMo) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:11) 08:34:36 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:35:40 oms (L15 MiBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Swamp:4) 08:35:41 Arhiman (L11 TrMo) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:11) 08:38:16 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-3260-g1751823: Improve handling of =p and !p inscriptions with auto sacrifice. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1751823d3f5f 08:38:18 -!- home has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:38:18 <|amethyst> Medar: what about !D ? 08:38:38 Guess I missed that one. 08:38:41 <|amethyst> (haven't tested whether it causes the same bug) 08:38:59 Can't see why it wouldn't. 08:39:11 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-3261-g854c38f: Schedule more of Fake Rakshasa Summon for removal. 10(9 minutes ago, 3 files, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=854c38f7b40b 08:39:11 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-3262-g1249a6a: Replace fake summon with phantom mirror on transfers. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1249a6a40750 08:40:47 Guess also !* 08:41:10 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:43:28 * dpeg realises that he could have used to poll to figure out how many players actually use inscriptions... 08:44:18 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-3263-g95de4dd: Fix some jump-attack checks (PleasingFungus) 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 8+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=95de4ddcb2fc 08:44:34 |amethyst: So that fixes the crashes right? Guess I should !tell DracoOmega :) 08:44:57 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:44:59 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:24 <|amethyst> !tell DracoOmega fixed 0.14-a0-3262-g1249a6a 08:45:24 |amethyst: OK, I'll let dracoomega know. 08:45:32 Thanks 08:49:34 Aww, no post-push hook in git. Was going to add cheipoke. 08:49:48 !tell Grunt hmm, well i'm really not keen on using the good god veto thing in any more places. not sure that it should exist without that veto either though, really 08:49:49 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let grunt know. 08:51:40 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-3264-g73f3522: Also handle !* and !D inscriptions better with auto sacrifice. 10(14 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=73f3522d6e06 08:51:54 !tell Grunt in general i think if we want to actually use holies as regular enemies (not that they are in a great state for this currently), they should possibly just stay hostile to good god players - even currently they are perfectly happy to try and kill you some of the time 08:51:54 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let grunt know. 08:53:03 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 08:53:55 A quick one: a thread about trove rewards coughed up some new ideas. One of them is a trove where you can only enter godless. (For convenience, I suggested to have altars to all gods inside the trove.) nrook said he might go at implementing this. Speak up now if you think it's a really bad idea, please. Would save him some trouble. 08:54:00 https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11266&p=157116 08:55:34 it would require tying the actual trove vault you get to the fee, i think? which isn't done currently, no clue whether that's good or bad necessarily 08:56:21 i know it's less flavourful but i would probably agree with minmay on making it just reduce you to low piety 08:56:49 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 08:57:37 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 08:58:18 MarvinPA: I don't know either. Both approaches have their advantages, and neither is free of problems. 08:59:26 There was another idea when someone suggested "kill Agnes" (which has undesired consequences, I think): could a trove ask for a number of uniques to be killed, say "Kill 20 uniques for me"? 08:59:56 How does rejoining a religion work anyway? With a quick wizmode test it seems like you just lose your piety and that's it. 09:00:03 reducing piety makes it more like a normal trove at least, and probably easier to implement 09:00:51 Mandevil (L8 SpAr) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (D:7) 09:00:52 firemonkey (L12 HOBe) ERROR in 'tileweb.cc' at line 212: Socket write error: Resource temporarily unavailable (Lair:1) 09:01:55 ok! 09:02:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:03:31 <|amethyst> dpeg: on CSZO, about 7 or 8% of players have used inscriptions in at least one game 09:03:45 <|amethyst> dpeg: not counting the =f inscription, which was applied automatically for a while 09:04:10 <|amethyst> dpeg: That wasn't a full count, but a sample of about 10% of the .lst files 09:04:23 <|amethyst> or, rather, all the .lst files for about 10% of the players 09:04:31 +1 for reducing piety over abandoning your god 09:06:08 |amethyst: thank you, really good to know! 09:07:43 <|amethyst> dpeg: err, that's for the inscriptions that do something 09:07:53 <|amethyst> dpeg: so {good?} wouldn't count :) 09:08:16 <|amethyst> dpeg: realised I wasn't clear on that 09:08:25 I understood it like this :) 09:08:38 Was curious if the inscription interface is used. Seems it is! 09:11:12 |amethyst: Do you think this will need any work on server side? I forget what files are copied automatically. http://sprunge.us/WMVS?diff 09:12:49 <|amethyst> Medar: both of those should be updated when trunk is rebuilt 09:13:10 <|amethyst> cp -r source/webserver/game_data/. $DATADIR/web 09:13:10 <|amethyst> cp -r source/webserver/!(config.py|game_data|templates) $WEBDIR 09:13:10 <|amethyst> cp source/webserver/templates/client.html $WEBDIR/templates/ 09:13:10 <|amethyst> cp source/webserver/templates/game_links.html $WEBDIR/templates/ 09:13:38 Ok, good. Thanks. 09:14:08 Hmm, didn't know about that !( syntax. Looks useful. 09:14:41 <|amethyst> Medar: It's bash-specific; you may need shopt -s extglob if it's not already set 09:15:01 -!- truemono has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:01 <|amethyst> Medar: search for extglob in man bash 09:15:54 Ok. 09:17:13 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:06 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 09:19:21 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:21:07 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:21:38 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-3265-g75c5171: Move JavaScript code out of client.html into a new file. 10(6 days ago, 2 files, 12+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=75c51712087f 09:33:45 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:35:36 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:00:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:00:10 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 10:05:17 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:05:50 MarvinPA: thanks; you're thinking the same things I am about that vault. 10:05:50 Grunt: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:07:21 03dpeg02 07* 0.14-a0-3266-g9985a34: Bring back some fun in an early Jiyva altar. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9985a3499df3 10:11:47 dpeg: is that 19 supposed to be a 9? 10:13:19 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:42 mrrr, that shell glob is actually from ksh, may work without extglob --- may not work at all in latest bash which has dropped a lot of the ksh stuff since POSIX also dropped it 10:13:59 erm, yes 10:14:13 Grunt: I manage to screw my one commit of the year :( 10:15:07 git started asking about git config --global push.default matching 10:15:15 or simple -- which one do you use? 10:15:20 oh wait, !(...) is ksh, x|y is bash extglob 10:15:49 pretty sure ksh does alteration too 10:17:23 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:39 03dpeg02 07* 0.14-a0-3267-ga4cbdde: Fix typo. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4cbddefd027 10:23:16 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:56 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Client Quit] 10:26:53 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 10:28:49 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:28 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:30:32 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [] 10:38:01 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:07 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:30 dpeg: now you have another commit for the year! :) 10:41:09 I am good until 2020 if you find more typos! :) 10:43:03 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-3268-g895fc63: Add a config.py option for development: no_cache 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=895fc63d4756 10:43:03 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-3269-g0ebcb40: Set more headers when caching is disabled. 10(14 hours ago, 2 files, 7+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0ebcb40baa04 10:43:28 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:43:46 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 10:44:02 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:15 -!- rast- is now known as rast 10:45:29 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:48:14 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3270-gc3f1c56: Don't try to place Depths' zig entrance on Depths:6. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c3f1c56dbf00 10:53:27 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 10:53:55 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:54:06 What do you think: should runed doors listed in Ctrl-O? 10:55:16 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:16 I go out on a limb and say they shoud. 10:58:45 That sounds reasonable. 11:00:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:01:06 I don't think this can be done with an option parameter, right? 11:01:16 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 11:01:21 I'd have to figure that out... 11:01:58 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:02:27 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 11:02:55 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3271-g13ef432: Use encompass vault portal places for otherwise-floating branch entries. 10(75 seconds ago, 3 files, 42+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13ef432e7087 11:02:56 so, i had one comment on the proposed glyph changes 11:03:30 crawl has (had?) a tendency to put nastier monsters on the bright colors 11:03:38 e.g. brown troll -> yellow deep troll 11:03:50 cyan orc knight -> lightcyan warlord 11:04:28 ontoclasm: is that tendency gone? I hope not! 11:04:47 dpeg: it's definitely fading 11:04:51 * dpeg recalls days of ordinarily-green oklob plants and dark grey ancient lich. 11:05:23 ontoclasm: glyph colour overhaul, no biggie! My recommendation is to do it in one fell swoop, to reduce the hate. 11:06:20 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07:04 Grunt: this is a nice feature! 11:07:06 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:07:45 anh, maybe i'm just nuts 11:08:04 though at least vanilla tengu and tengu conjurers are backwards 11:08:18 ...or wait, vanilla tengu don't really exist anymore, do they 11:09:21 yup 11:09:56 rip 11:10:50 anyway, if you need glyphs, a, B, and k are all almost empty and could easily be combined 11:11:21 i put them all on k and it works fine 11:11:46 borinK beetle 11:13:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:16:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:16:23 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 11:16:44 i was hoping that at some point we could remove colour overlap between base draconians and classes (right now monk and knight are on black and pale) 11:17:11 of course, this would require cutting two types (probably yellow and merging scorchers with zealots?) 11:17:47 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:17:57 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:20:04 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:22 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:20:22 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 11:20:22 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:01 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:41 if it wasn't for wucad's I would have cut monks and given knights even stronger melee 11:24:37 even then, there's not much of a way to avoid berserk draconians being all the same colour in a branch where that can plausibly happen at a decent rate but 11:26:19 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27:43 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:46 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 11:29:25 tenofswords: you can do it even with Wucad Mu's vault 11:30:00 -!- Zermako has quit [] 11:31:11 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:32:10 * tenofswords sighs 11:32:37 ? 11:33:58 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:31 * reaverb wonders whether https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8263 is too low priority for anybody to look at. 11:35:25 something under Source Cleanup -- i never thought i'd see the day! 11:35:37 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:39:33 -!- _159 has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:15 agentcrap (L23 HaAK) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (Depths:2) 11:44:48 -!- maahes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:37 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:41 -!- duralumin has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:57 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:57 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 11:47:57 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 11:50:15 wheals: Of course, the real reason it's there is so that it's easy to change names in the future. 11:50:50 Since we don't have to change potion names in two differant places. 11:51:25 -!- Staplegun is now known as sgun 11:52:35 -!- greensna1k is now known as greensnark 11:54:31 -!- Wolfechu__ is now known as Wolfechu 11:57:06 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:18 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:59:25 -!- Basil has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:48 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:59:57 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:03:49 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:13 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:07:43 -!- reaverb has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:13:19 -!- reaverb1 is now known as reaverb 12:21:03 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:24:26 nice assert. (no sarcasm. I'm referring to the way it gives all that debugging info, not the fact that it triggerred!) 12:26:35 btw, it would be nice if poison displayed in tiles xD 12:29:48 -!- sanka has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:59 -!- Surr_ is now known as Surr 12:32:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:35:01 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:35:52 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:23 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 12:39:18 03reaver02 {wheals} 07* 0.14-a0-3272-gb78b54b: Use potion_type_name() to note Xom potion effects. 10(21 hours ago, 3 files, 17+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b78b54b1c700 12:39:49 ontoclasm: cocytus water looks kinda lol 12:41:37 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:36 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:46 Oh, now that's a weird display thing, I will go submit this silly display bug to mantis now. 12:43:49 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 12:44:35 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 12:49:37 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:46 wheals: Thank you! 12:56:15 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:34 Ego weapon color displays inconsistently in status area by Siegurt 13:01:43 -!- poopfist42 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:02:51 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:51 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 13:02:51 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:01 -!- crawildalwdw has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:04:25 -!- maahes_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:19 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:15:50 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:00 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:19:18 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:19:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:21:23 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-3271-g13ef432 (34) 13:23:33 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:24:53 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:44 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:29:21 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:56 A new layout by infiniplex 13:31:13 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:33:08 oh right, nobody did anything with geoelf 13:33:31 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:38:14 -!- Blazinghand|Work is now known as Blazinghand| 13:38:14 -!- Blazinghand| is now known as Blazinghand 13:39:12 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:42:58 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:46:53 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:01 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:15 -!- Odexios has joined ##crawl-dev 13:57:02 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:57 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:13 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:09 -!- Guest62734 is now known as SwissStopwatch 14:07:31 -!- Ququman has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:28 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:18:01 infiniplex is doing some great stuff 14:20:50 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:21:16 -!- lessens has quit [] 14:24:04 -!- Bcadren has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:52 15+5+5 feels very smooth, for the record. 14:24:54 !lg . 14:24:54 1337. SGrunt the Thanatomancer (L26 DsNe of Kikubaaqudgha), escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-03-12 19:08:31, with 1489441 points after 89426 turns and 5:04:42. 14:25:34 -!- TeshiAlair has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:25:38 1337, nice 14:26:11 hehe 14:26:12 !!!! 14:26:13 had to win that one 14:26:16 I didn't even notice. 14:26:44 Will only games started after the update have these floor counts? 14:26:49 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:56 Correct. 14:27:06 I had to double check that that was the case, but the functionality's been around for ages. 14:28:43 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:29:23 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:32:18 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 14:32:56 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:33:52 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 14:34:50 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:54 -!- NomadJim_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:26 Bloax: howso? 14:36:31 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36:41 er, that was to something you said like 4 hours ago 14:36:45 about cocytus water 14:36:58 Cocytus is now dark purple. 14:37:03 the water is light blue 14:37:53 http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/242612-king-s-quest-vi-heir-today-gone-tomorrow-dos-screenshot-getting.png could use some darkness 14:38:27 Good choice of screenshot there. 14:39:04 (and then you could use it for tartarus too) 14:39:23 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:58 in general we need new water 14:41:24 maybe i could "backport" shoals water 14:41:41 obviously losing a lot of the waviness and making it murkier 14:42:10 it's in a huge layered image file so making variants is relatively easy 14:42:28 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:28 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 14:42:28 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 14:47:21 glyhp colour observation: blue is not good for amphibious monsters like alligators 14:48:29 brown is also not good for centaurs, nor is green good for fauns (though i guess without forest that's less of a problem) 14:49:32 yes 14:49:40 these colours are natural, but bad nonetheless 14:49:43 clearly just color everything lightmagenta 14:49:52 <|amethyst> what's wrong with brown? 14:49:58 <|amethyst> too close to rock walls? 14:50:03 |amethyst: they blend with wa- yes 14:50:31 <|amethyst> Doesn't that hold for pretty much every brown monster then? 14:50:32 and for a dangerous early threat that you often need to notice as soon as it comes into los that's extra bad 14:50:38 <|amethyst> aha 14:50:51 well like, if you miss a hobgoblin for a few turns you're not gonna die 14:51:03 (generally0 14:51:18 indeed 14:51:25 <|amethyst> what about killer bees? 14:51:41 i have my killer bees on yellow anyway so i don't know about that >.> 14:51:44 * dpeg has a feeling that glyph colours rest very well in ontoclasm's hands 14:51:49 haha 14:52:07 |amethyst: less of an issue, ime 14:52:09 i feel like most brown monsters are very old 14:52:21 original crawl was very brown 14:52:23 we cannot avoid brown and blue... just need to think which monsters are better off with these 14:52:31 if only console could display bright greygreen, that's the best color 14:52:32 wheals: this is absolutely true 14:52:35 empty and brown 14:52:49 ontoclasm: like with a Hercules graphics card? 14:52:56 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:17 <|amethyst> If someone writes a colour stripper for ttyrecs and integrates it into DGL, we could think about porting to 256color 14:53:35 <|amethyst> but I don't think that would do much for monster distinguishability 14:53:51 <|amethyst> or rather, it would be quite likely to have a negative effect 14:54:14 well, that's possible, if it's poorly used 14:54:28 <|amethyst> we'd have to support 16-colour anyway 14:54:29 however, one major key to visibility is saturation 14:54:56 |amethyst: yes, devs might be overwhelmed by so many colours 14:55:11 As long as we don't go the Brogue route... 14:55:12 <_< 14:55:13 as an example, Brogue ... 14:55:22 Grunt: was about to say that 14:56:06 try tile_display_mode = hybrid for the brogue effect 14:57:09 -!- Laraso has quit [Quit: Laraso falls through a shaft! The shaft crumbles and collapses.] 14:58:14 at least it implies elemental monster colours not overlapping with regular monster colours so it should be done asap 14:58:59 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:02 Here's a quick thing: Remove the normal/contam chunk difference. With nausea removed it doesn't do anything much anymore. 14:59:26 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:16 just killed Asterion, poor sod 15:00:41 Bcadren: we will talk about chunks after release 15:00:50 Bcadren: also, you always sound a bit like an officer in charge 15:02:22 !locateall dpeg 15:02:23 dpeg: CDO 0.14-a, L17 TrMo of Dithmenos 15:02:26 I was assuming "thing" meant "idea" 15:02:36 not "order" 15:02:44 I assume so 15:02:48 <|amethyst> Bcadren: half nutrition is not entirely irrelevant, but that could be dealt with in other ways 15:03:16 I command you to do so. Muahahaha. [/sarcasm] 15:03:18 <|amethyst> (however, right now number of chunks and pushability by fan of gales both depend on the weight) 15:03:50 ...oh, Kirke still has ugly things in cdo's current version. 15:04:13 I just think it's pointless tedium to have the differential, like Nausea itself was. I played briefly when Nausea was still around and died of nausea more than once. >_< 15:04:22 Clearly cdo isn't building again yet >_> 15:04:30 Is there any obvious thing to do to all the uniques which use to spawn on D:16?(like changing it to D:15) I'm reorganzing uniques.des and can do a simple change right now. 15:04:32 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1000017/crawl/browns.png 15:04:35 yes, cdo is behind the times 15:04:46 Grunt: gotta tell the napping king? 15:05:03 reaverb: yes, what else? 15:05:35 reaverb: I don't think anything specifically uses only D:16? If you're seeing the same 16s as I am, just do D:14- instead. 15:05:39 i would assume such uniques use D:x- syntax 15:05:45 or if not they should do! 15:05:47 dpeg: I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm seperating all the uniques into Dungeon, Depths, and non-D uniques. 15:06:22 MarvinPA: Quite a few explictily go to −16, although a few use the -" notation. 15:06:51 <|amethyst> also, serial_sigils needs depth tweaks 15:07:13 <|amethyst> as do many of the individual sigils 15:08:06 reaverb: ah, I had no idea. I thought that was a reaction to the D:16 loss 15:08:56 dpeg: Yeah, originally the file was divided into Dungeon and non-Dungeon unqiues, but that drifted over the years, and then the Dungeon split happened.. 15:12:55 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 15:18:52 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:09 only able to lock one stair at a time (and can't switch until the duration runs out) 15:26:28 just make them lock like the closest stair or the closest 50% of stairs 15:26:46 even the closest stair would eliminate most stair dancing 15:28:09 you are twenty hours late? 15:28:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:28:33 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:12 but 0.14 isnt out yet 15:30:06 -!- BadOgre has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:27 but we discussed this at length yesterday 15:30:46 -!- crawlerr has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:33:53 wardens are fine, getting screwed out of the stairs is Fun 15:34:36 elliptic * 0.14-a0-3244-g83c5e76: Decrease Mark duration by 25%. 15:34:36 Grunt * 0.14-a0-3245-g63f152f: Allow players to continue traversing stairs if they get sealed halfway. 15:34:37 lol 15:35:50 secularist: indeeds, that's what we came up with 15:35:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:35:59 not good enough imo 15:36:45 why 15:36:59 Alright, here's that patch to reorganize uniques.des: http://bpaste.net/show/lTlNOflSdXTdpbGoNsPS/ 15:37:16 they were fine before, they got nerfed, now they're even less of a big deal 15:37:25 wardens 15:37:28 are the main issue 15:37:38 because omg 0.14 is the hardest version ever 15:37:53 (hey guys abyss exists) 15:37:58 (psst hey hello 15:37:59 wheals: didn't wardens lock stairs in 0.13 too? 15:38:21 what's a logic 15:38:44 secularist: you are talking to half a dozen developers. We are fine with wardens. 15:38:49 I think it had stair locking but with some limits? wardens have had a bit of scope creep 15:39:08 (or maybe the limit was where they could place) 15:39:31 geekosaur: I think they have been V exclusive from the start? 15:40:08 I think they were not in V:5 initially though? 15:40:12 geekosaur: they could place on V:5 from the start, the stair sealing was added in 0.13 because wardens were sad in V:5 15:40:28 %git 992b9cfa 15:40:28 07DracoOmega02 * 0.13-a0-2384-g992b9cf: Allow vault wardens to seal stairways in addition to doors 10(8 months ago, 8 files, 55+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=992b9cfa9f88 15:40:31 * dpeg has pity with sad wardens 15:40:49 (it also makes them somewhat more interesting in earlier V) 15:41:04 ok, I am apparently misremembering, I know stair sealing was added later but I thought there was an additional change later that either added them to v:5 or made them more effective / more likely to do something 15:41:14 it doesnt make them more interesting on v5, it makes them a death sentence 15:41:18 s/later/after that/2 15:41:26 -!- secularist was kicked from ##crawl-dev by dpeg [secularist] 15:41:26 enough is enough 15:41:27 I've done V:5 on cheiracters. 15:41:34 it's not so bad 15:41:44 geekosaur: I don't see any such change when searching commits for "warden" 15:41:52 ok 15:42:07 I have just done Swamp one a pure melee troll, including some "don't melee" monsters 15:42:19 (I am not btw expressing an opinion either way, just thought I remembered some later change and subsequent complaints from the usual badplayers) 15:43:04 (I mean, I'm certainly a badplayer too, just not prone to blaming crawl for my being a badplayer) 15:43:19 badcrawl vs badplayer 15:43:23 the badplayer wins 15:43:30 the only reason i'm failing miserably at crawl is because i'm trying to push it too far 15:43:36 21:42 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with secularist 15:43:36 21:42 real mature dude 15:43:36 21:42 next time you get kickban 15:43:36 21:43 good job giving the entire dev team a bad rep 15:43:36 21:43 remember this 15:43:38 21:43 k? 15:43:49 :| 15:43:56 speaking of "real mature"... 15:44:27 so if people bump into you on the street, angry, and mumbling "wardens!" under their breath... you can chalk it up to me :) 15:45:06 had to call that guy out in the other channel for using some language that we don't like. Sometimes these things are telling 15:45:16 !learn edit gammafunk[2] s/"non-dungeon" grouping/"non-dungeon" grouping {I did the grouping bit https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8269 -reaverb}/ 15:45:16 Syntax is: !learn edit TERM[NUM] s/REGEX/REPLACE/opts 15:45:20 I bet he is very young/ 15:45:25 yeah I suspect so 15:45:34 whereas I am mature =) 15:45:56 "Language we don't like." 15:46:29 Clean up uniques.des by Reaver 15:47:07 !learn del gammafunk[2] 15:47:07 Deleted gammafunk[2/11]: todo: possible adjust uniques from d:14- to d:12- look at "non-dungeon" grouping 15:47:19 !learn add gammafunk[2] todo: possible adjust uniques from d:14- to d:12- look at "non-dungeon" grouping {I did the grouping bit https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8269 -reaverb} 15:47:20 gammafunk[2/11]: todo: possible adjust uniques from d:14- to d:12- look at "non-dungeon" grouping {I did the grouping bit https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8269 -reaverb} 15:47:21 reaverb: cool! 15:48:30 !tell Basil Vinestalkers are now very much prone to dying hard to adders due to the recent poison concentration changes. (hey is that a notion to bump regen up to 2 again?) 15:48:30 Bloax: OK, I'll let basil know. 15:49:05 Huh 15:49:08 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:13 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:25 I'll look into that 15:49:33 -!- Odexios has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:49:48 just splatted twice to dark red poison in the earliest dungeons 15:49:50 let's splat some more 15:50:30 <|amethyst> does mana shield affect damage from poison? 15:51:08 <|amethyst> I guess it doesn't matter much if you have no MP 15:52:27 iirc guardian spirit doesn't affect poison but I could be wrong 15:52:41 <|amethyst> should it? 15:52:55 -!- stabba has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:52:57 |amethyst: No. 15:53:13 hmm 15:53:14 sounds pretty unlikely to be a problem with VS specifically 15:53:41 A few people I've watched were sort of surprised when they died with a nonzero mana pool 15:55:04 I believe GS stopping poison is intentional but I forget the reason why, it might be a relic of how GS used to work with taking damage first from MP and only from HP when MP was 0 15:55:22 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:5-10) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 15:55:22 %??adder 15:55:25 they already outregen most poison easily anyway, if there is some kind of a problem it probably applies to other low hp races much more than VS 15:55:30 yeah 15:55:40 Wasn't poison sped up with the deterministic change? 15:55:42 !apt Hp 15:55:42 HP: Tr: 3!, Og: 3!, DD: 2, Na: 2, Mi: 1, Dr: 1, Gh: 1, HO: 1, Dg: 1, LO: 1, Ce: 1, Mu: 0, Ds: 0, Hu: 0, Vp: 0, Mf: 0, Fo: 0, Ha: -1, Op: -1, HE: -1, Ko: -2, Gr: -2, Te: -2, DE: -2, Sp: -3, VS: -3, Fe: -4* 15:55:44 it was 15:55:58 yes, and they still outregen it 15:56:11 not after two good bites 15:56:19 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:35 would similar hp races survive these two good bites 15:56:35 well, two good bites will kill other low-HP chars too presumably 15:57:02 Let's try some SpMos. 15:57:06 does poison:5-10 there mean that this is the actual poison damage? 15:57:15 I would assume so. 15:57:23 (5-10 is quite a lot when you have 21) 15:57:23 so adder can do 15 damage with one hit? 15:58:15 feels like a lot, I don't really know what the old numbers were like but regenerating from poison was presumably a lot easier then because it was slower 15:58:35 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 15:59:44 Red poison (whatever it means now) does about one hp a turn now. 15:59:48 <|amethyst> 10% per 10 turns 15:59:59 <|amethyst> AFAIK darkred just means it's lethal 16:00:03 <|amethyst> err 16:00:04 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 16:00:05 <|amethyst> per 10 aut 16:00:10 which definitely isn't 0.3 hp a turn worth of regen 16:00:19 If I may interject slightly 16:00:29 -!- BadOgre has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 16:00:56 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:01:10 oh, I was wondering, does "lethal" take regen rate into account? 16:01:27 -!- stickyfingers_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:01:43 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: ? 16:01:54 Firstly, AF_POISON only works on 1 in 3 hits in the first place. At low intensities it isn't actually appreciably faster than old values. Calculating the comparison to old poison is hard given how variable the damage range was (hard to estimate averages), but greater than the current values was certainly possible. However, I have been monitoring stats and do feel that earlygame poison is just a bi 16:01:54 t deadlier than it used to be and will likely adjust the constant componant of it down just a bit. 16:02:01 elliptic: No 16:02:05 maybe it should 16:02:30 I am not sure entirely how to get it to do so, to be honest, given that the poison slows the more of it has already gone away 16:02:33 not sure how much difference it would make though with poison so fast though 16:02:44 Well, at low amounts, it's still only 1 hp every 4 turns 16:03:18 (Also, there are many other ways to end up gaining life in the meantime that invalidate 'lethal' levels. I do agree it would be nice if it at least included passive regen, though, if there's reasonable way to do this.) 16:03:22 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:29 well, passive regen rate is deterministic 16:03:30 yes i noticed regen not accounting for it 16:03:45 yeah, i was very confused when it told me i was lethally poisoned but then i did nothing and failed to die 16:03:51 is poisoning fully deterministic, or is there some randomization in when it is applied? 16:03:58 -!- notcluie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:04:29 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:29 that is, does 1 hp every 4 turns actually mean 100010001... or a 1/4 chance each turn? 16:04:35 The former 16:05:09 But rounding can probably cause the duration to change slightly by taking non 10 aut actions 16:05:25 can still probably approximate it fairly well 16:05:26 Since it might slightly delay ticks 16:06:03 -!- Vizer has quit [Quit: bye] 16:06:09 It currently inflicts 1/15th of your total poison value every 10 aut, to a minimum of 1/4 of an hp 16:06:44 (And a max of 10, but this is hard to reach) 16:06:44 <|amethyst> ah, was that changed from the first commit? 16:06:56 Yes 16:06:59 I take the poison value is the poison damage? 16:07:08 %git 3eae12d 16:07:08 07DracoOmega02 {Grunt} * 0.14-a0-3077-g3eae12d: Increase poison damage inflicted by most sources, reduce rate of damage 10(7 days ago, 6 files, 14+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3eae12d311d4 16:07:30 Bloax: Well, technically the internal value is 4 times your total poison damage 16:07:44 To allow it to count down to 1/4 hp intervals 16:08:12 Because ~20/15 is still about 1 hp a turn. 16:08:23 -!- Blazinghand|Work is now known as Blazinghand 16:08:30 For a short while, yes 16:08:48 except you have no hp and you just got bitten good by an adder :-D 16:08:48 (But seriously, if an adder max poisoned you two hits in a row, that could easily kill you before this) 16:09:27 I think we'll be hearing from Zermako 16:09:41 DracoOmega: yeah 16:09:56 <|amethyst> One thing I do kind of miss, though of course it's completely against the determinism thing, is the 1hp miracle 16:10:19 |amethyst: Well, not knowing if you'll regen enough in time is sort of a substitute for that, maybe? :P 16:10:25 <|amethyst> :) 16:10:43 elliptic: One thing I think may be happening is that the current system makes it more obvious how bad adder poison sometimes is 16:10:44 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:10:51 I mean, I do think it seems slightly worse, but not out of the ballpark worse 16:11:21 Since 2 levels of old poison is definitely quite enough to kill lots of early characters 16:11:22 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:5-10) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 16:11:22 <|amethyst> %??adder 16:11:24 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 1 | HP: 3-8 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:3-7) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(4), 12drown | XP: 1 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 16:11:24 <|amethyst> %??adder hd:1 16:11:46 adder (09S) | Spd: 13 (swim: 60%) | HD: 2 | HP: 6-16 | AC/EV: 1/15 | Dam: 508(poison:5-10) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(8), 12drown | XP: 13 | Sz: little | Int: reptile. 16:11:46 <|amethyst> %??adder hd:1.7 16:11:46 DracoOmega: I haven't actually played with this myself, to be clear... I'm just looking at the numbers and looking at the code :P 16:11:50 My first inclination is to nudge it down to like... 4-8, maybe 16:11:59 Or something like that 16:12:07 <|amethyst> doesn't that change the formula for everything? 16:12:19 Well, by 1-2 16:12:24 Which isn't a lot, later on 16:12:26 how about we see if people are dying more to adder poison 16:12:28 <|amethyst> oh, you mean a constant adjustment down 16:12:34 when was this put in trunk, hm 16:12:47 elliptic: Yes, I mean I was looking at stats and adder deaths ARE up (by like 15% or something?) 16:12:47 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: maybe though it should be based on the attack 16:12:55 DracoOmega: ah 16:13:04 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: so it can be tuned per-monster without affecting all the stuff HD affects 16:13:09 So I think no dramatic change is needed, but just maybe a small nudge down 16:13:17 DracoOmega: well, +15% isn't bad, yeah :) 16:13:34 +15% to one of the biggest earlygame killers sounds pretty good 16:13:54 Well, it makes them slightly more dangerous than hobgoblins now 16:13:58 I believe 16:14:07 hm 16:14:15 by the way, I'm a little worried looking at the code about how this interacts with actions of different aut 16:14:18 -!- flun has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:14:23 since it is deterministic rounding 16:14:38 it looks like you might be able to slow down poison by taking actions of specific lengths in some cases? 16:14:41 -!- qrf has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:43 |amethyst: Well, making it directly based on the physical damage that delivers the blow might cause other issues 16:14:52 scaling further would be the way to stop this 16:14:59 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:14:59 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 16:14:59 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 16:15:13 well actually I guess that doesn't help if you want it to be totally deterministic 16:15:13 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15:15 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: yeah, and making it a second attack def would be weird 16:15:16 elliptic: Do you think div_rand_round there would be fine, even if it's 'slightly' less deterministic? 16:15:17 hm 16:15:38 actually, this should be handled the same way that regen is 16:15:42 The total amount is the same. It would just introduce very slightly variance in the rate of damage at particular points, but I doubt enough to matter 16:16:13 elliptic: That uses a scale of 100, does it? 16:16:38 regen essentially works by saving partial regeneration to 0.01 HP, yeah 16:16:53 So that sounds very close to what I did, except I just went to 0.25 HP 16:16:53 <|amethyst> bresenham's poisoning 16:17:22 So probably the internal scale can just be multiplied? 16:17:43 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:55 DracoOmega: oh, right, you are already doing that basically 16:18:04 so yeah, I'd just change the scale from 4 to 100 16:18:11 That doesn't sound too hard 16:18:26 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:18:47 that should make including regen rate in determining lethality work better as well 16:18:55 * gammafunk reminds himself to go read the deterministic poison code at some point 16:19:02 -!- qrf has left ##crawl-dev 16:19:03 gammafunk: 16:19:07 ??gammafunk[2] 16:19:07 gammafunk[2/11]: todo: possible adjust uniques from d:14- to d:12- look at "non-dungeon" grouping {I did the grouping bit https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8269 -reaverb} 16:19:17 speaking of regen 16:19:29 could the base regen rate be bumped by something silly like 10 16:19:51 DracoOmega: I see chei dislikes determinism at the moment, btw :P (that could also be fixed with a bigger scale) 16:19:54 Bloax: There's no reason it couldn't except for the fact it would be a bit hacky. 16:20:00 elliptic: Maybe. I feel there may be some math equation for deriving how long it would take something to go to 0 if it decreases by 1/15th of itself a turn (to some minimum), but I don't actually know off-hand what that would be >.> 16:20:04 (Like technical reason) 16:20:09 cool, I'll take a look 16:20:10 hitting 5 three times to heal up after the first hit from something as a <-2 hp race 16:20:17 is kinda :( 16:20:18 fr rename poison to "anti-regeneration" 16:20:18 it is approximately a logarithm 16:20:54 log base 14/15 16:20:58 !learn edit gammafunk[2] s|http.+8269|in #8269| 16:20:58 gammafunk[2/11]: todo: possible adjust uniques from d:14- to d:12- look at "non-dungeon" grouping {I did the grouping bit in #8269 -reaverb} 16:21:32 gammafunk: Wow, did not realize regular expression could do that. 16:21:47 what, different seperators? 16:21:48 ontoclasm: yeah, and rounding shouldn't be very significant with a higher scale 16:22:01 yup guardian spirit doesn't affect poison 16:22:44 gammafunk: Yes, I might be able to actually deal with URLS now. 16:23:16 yeah, not so much a regexp thing, but something that "languages" using regexp often use if they use the s// syntax at all 16:23:43 DracoOmega: anyway, if you want to handle the rescaling to 100 or something, I can try to improve the lethal-checking after that 16:23:55 Sure, sounds good to me, thanks :) 16:27:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 16:29:48 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:30:36 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Client Quit] 16:31:43 -!- mamgar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:12 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:23 elliptic: Incidentally, by 'Chei dislikes determinism' did you mean the bit where I had to use div_rand_round to avoid poison never expiring? >.> 16:33:37 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:58 yes 16:34:30 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:43 can avoid that with better scaling of course 16:34:58 since the new min speed will be 25, so multiplying that by 2/3 is fine 16:35:12 Yeah 16:39:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:44 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40:22 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:06 reaverb: is "address.auto@gmail.com" actually your email address? 16:44:59 gammafunk: Yes. I orginally used it for only address that I thought might spam me, then I told a couple of my friends it when I was caught by surprised, and pretty soon is was my primary address. 16:45:08 address/systems/ 16:45:29 that's a bit weird, but ok 16:45:51 maybe make another gmail and set that one to forward? 16:45:51 I guess I might make a "crawl.reaverb.forward@gmail.com" 16:46:18 Well personally I'd recommend makeing address.auto forward and start giving out a better one :) 16:46:56 I'm just imagining the endless confusion that address can generate 16:47:43 gammafunk: I probably should, but It's work and I don't use email that much. 16:48:03 dang youth and their twittersphere 16:48:37 !send reaverb punch post card 16:48:37 Sending punch post card to reaverb. 16:49:33 Oh, while I think of it, here's a bug if someone else wants to take a stab at it at the moment (it may or may not be connected to players getting thrown through walls via monster tornado, but is a bug nonetheless) 16:49:41 http://pastebin.com/Hy3XTaQE 16:49:47 Observe the clouds from my tornado 16:50:22 * gammafunk unfollows Grunt. gammafunk says: "#zerominmaxbugtolerance" 16:50:27 This seems to happen when there is an arrangement of parallel connected corridors relatively close to each other, as in that map there 16:50:41 In other situations, the tornado is properly small due to the confined space around you 16:51:16 I noticed this ages ago, but recall the tornado wind map code confusing me 16:51:25 (Was reminded of it again last night) 16:51:37 everything about the tornado code confused me 16:51:50 (i was trying to get it to spin the correct way in zot) 16:52:06 is Zot on the other hemisphere? 16:52:08 Does it spin differently in Zot than anywhere else? 16:52:13 ??zot 16:52:13 zot[1/5]: The final area of the game, although not necessarily the very last realm any player ever goes to. Filled with draconians, dragons, and all sorts of nasty types out to obliterate you. Found on Depths:6, and you can only unlock it with with 3 or more runes (found in dungeon branches). Five levels deep. 16:52:16 ??australia 16:52:17 australia[1/1]: messages_at_top = true 16:52:21 oh no, it's gone 16:52:39 !learn edit zot s/6/5 16:52:39 Use: !learn edit zot[NUM] s/// 16:52:45 !learn edit zot[1 s/6/5 16:52:45 zot[1/5]: The final area of the game, although not necessarily the very last realm any player ever goes to. Filled with draconians, dragons, and all sorts of nasty types out to obliterate you. Found on Depths:5, and you can only unlock it with with 3 or more runes (found in dungeon branches). Five levels deep. 16:53:19 DracoOmega: So the bug is basically that the clouds should be constrained by LOS? 16:53:27 No, it's not just that 16:53:45 Tornado is supposed to be strongly confined by the terrain around you. In a corridor, it only extends to adjacent squares, even 16:53:58 And it does this in most corridors 16:54:06 ok, I see 16:54:10 Unless there is a particular arrangement of terrain outside the corridor itself, in which case it floods everything 16:54:21 DracoOmega: any chance you could make a quit mantis report? 16:54:25 s/quit/quick/ 16:55:16 Suppose I could in a little bit. I just tossed it up here in case someone else had nothing better to be doing, I guess :P 16:55:38 Helpful to prevent it from getting lost in the ether 16:55:45 Yes 16:55:59 Given that I 'reported' it like 8 months ago :P 16:56:25 I was able to get myself tossed in a way that sort of looked like it was through walls, via this, though I am not sure if you can only be tossed to places that the wind map reaches or not 16:56:33 (Like, that might be a seperate issue, or it might not) 16:57:00 -!- Tedronai has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:58:37 -!- mason- has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:50 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:39 oh 17:04:45 ??hilarious deaths[$ 17:04:45 hilarious deaths[160/160]: !tv stormdelay pan 1 17:05:08 that guy definitely went through a wall because of lom's tornado 17:06:13 Yes, that much is clear 17:06:20 I just mean whether or not the wind mapping issue is related 17:06:29 It might or might not be, I guess 17:15:12 DracoOmega: so do I have you to thank for a D:5 deep elf mage on this FeEn 17:15:29 It's out of depth! 17:15:30 (Probably) 17:17:33 -!- Kalir has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:51 (The shallowest end of its depth range is 9 at the moment) 17:20:21 I _did_ end up pushing the vault that produces d:4 wolf spiders and d:5 centaur warriors down to d:6 (where it produces fire crabs) 17:20:31 5+5=10 17:21:52 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:23:08 tenofswords: don't think I got an answer before, but I did the non-player ghosts on p -> W thing; how where you planning to populate the now-empy p glyph? 17:23:22 Just found the human skeleton with a wand of teleportation (0) in a labyrinth. So beautiful! 17:23:27 ...with @s? 17:23:43 yes, but, any *specifics* there? 17:23:53 it's not so easy as move unique @ to p 17:24:03 since there's still lots of overlap within color 17:24:14 The plan was NON-unique @s 17:24:19 yes, that 17:24:25 For which there is either no overlap or almost none 17:24:28 ok, but then the problem remails wrt uniques 17:24:34 s/remails/remains/ 17:24:58 I guess the most pressing question is, how do we resolve the human uniques sharing the same color situation 17:25:20 it's an imperfect solution, yes, but it's a lot better than status quo, since short of zigsprint there are hardly times where two @s of the same colour are close by 17:25:46 -!- Napcat has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:48 my thought was basically that, but if two uniques do share significant overlap, try to move them off the same color 17:26:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3273-g9a20582: Remove Formicid giant club wielding, reduce shield penalties, apt tweaks 10(5 hours ago, 5 files, 19+ 22-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9a20582491d1 17:26:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3274-gcd79464: Fix missing / odd rakshasa spellcast text 10(5 hours ago, 2 files, 6+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cd79464d151f 17:26:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3275-gb7d8f5a: Remove throwing net degradation, instead mulch probabilistically 10(2 hours ago, 9 files, 24+ 54-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b7d8f5a35a2b 17:26:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3276-gc7b2e23: Pre-awaken the forest provided by Summon Forest 10(54 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c7b2e23013d2 17:26:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3277-gbf4633e: Rescale DUR_POISONING from 4 times damage to 100 times damage 10(25 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf4633e106d6 17:26:37 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3278-gb24e923: Give Fighters a starting potion of might 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b24e9232fd7c 17:26:39 eustachio/maurice, donald/louise, margerny/norris 17:26:46 -!- Ragdoll has quit [Quit: Houdoe] 17:26:51 "fo ruined now" 17:27:03 DracoOmega: oh, right after my game with nets dies 17:27:09 Haha 17:27:10 DracoOmega: was going to suggest that summon forest change at one point, so thanks 17:27:30 [23:27:14] DracoOmega * 0.14-a0-3278-gb24e923: Give Fighters a starting potion of might (17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b24e9232fd7c 17:27:36 fighters beststart 17:28:53 do monster fovm still get gscs? 17:29:10 Did they ever? 17:29:27 Doesn't look like it 17:29:51 oh, i assumed they got the same as monster fo 17:29:52 ok 17:29:57 DracoOmega: there's one part of this that bothers me: "have yet to gain enough xp to otherwise benefit from using them with a two-hander" - surely two-handers doing more damage than one-handers is a benefit 17:30:03 DracoOmega: oh, I like that potion of might. Whenever I suggested it, it got booed down. :) Reminds me of book burning. 17:30:36 minmay: Well, I mean that normally earlygame people would prefer using lower delay weapons until they have trained more weapon skill 17:30:53 So often use one-handers even if they plan to transition into two-handers 17:31:22 And thus being able to use a shield with a two-hander is a minimal benefit if you are not yet wanting to use the heavier weapon anyway 17:31:23 DracoOmega: those are mostly people who don't understand that two-handers do more damage than one-handers 17:33:12 so i guess now if you're lethally poisoned, you should save your game and wait for it to be reduced by a factor of 25 :P 17:33:50 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:34:21 -!- PsyMar has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:55 DracoOmega: (this isn't an objection to the shield penalty change, I just want to point out that a battleaxe/great sword is better than a hand axe/war axe/falchion/long sword even at 4 skill) 17:36:32 Hmmm... I find myself surprised by this. I know, at least, it isn't true for things like battleaxe vs. executioner's axe 17:36:45 Or at least glaive versus bardiche is the last I remember checkign 17:37:45 (There are other downsides to using a weapon with a much greater delay even if it does more damage per aut, just the same) 17:38:57 hrm, what's the delay difference between the two? I'd be surprised if fsim agreed with battleaxe/great sword > 1handers at 4 weapon skill unless the delay difference is much smaller than I'm guessing 17:39:04 (And by 'surprised by this', I don't mean that you're incorrect. I actually double-checked :P) 17:39:04 -!- jmbto has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:39:20 interesting; what is the delay difference? 17:40:36 Well, 0.3 or 0.4 or something 17:40:42 Depending on the weapons you're comparing 17:40:44 20/26 17:40:48 both tyes 17:40:56 weapon types, rather 17:41:40 Well, being longer than 10 aut specifically probably has additional downsides 17:41:49 In opening up the chance to be double moved by normal speed things 17:41:51 yes 17:42:50 it really isn't particularly bad 17:43:06 just as fighting a black mamba with something other than a quick blade isn't particularly bad 17:43:13 at 4 skill great sword should beat most 1h easily 17:43:14 I didn't say 'particularly bad' 17:43:22 I'm not even disagreeing with you :P 17:43:27 okay i guess I should have said it isn't bad at all :P 17:43:32 er, by "should" i mean currently does 17:44:38 In any case, so long as the change is reasonable, I'm willing to admit to poor word choice in the commit message 17:46:12 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:46:21 -!- bd- has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:46:33 btw the reason that exec is worse than battleaxe at skill 4 is they are equally good at skill 0 17:46:41 er i guess that's not quite true any more 17:46:53 for great sword/claymore it is 17:47:01 16/16 vs 19/19 17:47:21 (accuracy favors great sword slightly obviously) 17:47:32 but AC favors claymore slightly!!! 17:47:37 heh 17:48:36 the chances of finding highlevel unarmed is unmatched, however 17:49:38 !lg * 17:49:39 3022870. Congressman the Cudgeler (L6 DsGl), blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:3 on 2014-03-12 22:49:23, with 486 points after 1840 turns and 0:04:51. 17:49:43 !lm * br.enter=zot 17:49:43 24068. [2014-03-12 19:34:00] Neverborn the Impregnable (L26 DsFi of Okawaru) entered the Realm of Zot on turn 85014. (Depths:6) 17:49:54 looks to me like the chance of finding highlevel unarmed is 24068/3022870 17:50:54 0.8%, not bad. 17:50:59 !lg * sk=unarmed_combat sklev>=22 god=okawaru 17:51:01 615. Jazzimus the Middleweight Champion (L27 GhMo of Okawaru), escaped with the Orb and 4 runes on 2014-03-12 05:14:06, with 1889100 points after 117905 turns and 11:36:44. 17:53:00 !lg * sk=long_blades sklev>=16 17:53:01 3989. Rexfelis the Minotaur Blade (L18 MiBe of Trog), mangled by an alligator snapping turtle on Shoals:5 (shoals_rune_alternative_decoy) on 2014-03-12 22:52:26, with 230013 points after 58974 turns and 8:12:08. 17:53:23 !lg * sk=unarmed_combat sklev>=20 17:53:23 4090. bananaken the Wrestler (L18 TrMo of Jiyva), blasted by a spriggan air mage (bolt of lightning) (kmap: grunt_deathspiral_small) on Depths:2 on 2014-03-12 21:29:49, with 193908 points after 33570 turns and 3:32:32. 17:53:32 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:53:54 numbers, numbers 17:54:02 What do they mean 17:55:19 why, yes, alligator snapping turtles are very rare and also in a roulette 17:56:00 is it supposed to be stunning that they've got less deaths over several versions compared to air mages being a common thing in one version (and scattered all over the place in other contexts) 17:56:02 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:40 * Grunt appears! 17:56:43 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 17:56:53 ...oh, whoops, me having somebody ignored made that make less sense than it should have 18:01:11 krunkulus (L21 OpWz) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (D:16) 18:02:13 krunkulus (L21 OpWz) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (D:16) 18:02:33 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:17 !crashlog 18:03:18 No milestones for crash. 18:03:24 !lm * crash -log 18:03:24 6900. krunkulus, XL21 OpWz, T:88472 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/krunkulus/crash-krunkulus-20140312-230210.txt 18:03:31 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:25 Ah, okay, that's the one that was fixed 18:04:27 Just checking 18:04:37 (Or probably is) 18:04:58 -!- Xiberia_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:53 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 18:08:15 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:09:46 !send DracoOmega bugs 18:09:46 Sending bugs to DracoOmega. 18:10:47 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:12:45 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13:13 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:25 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-3278-gb24e923 (34) 18:18:42 huh, just realized that (34) must refer to the tag major version 18:18:58 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:21 In case we get confused by all these different major versions floating about, hey? 18:19:48 that's right, I got the old helm of intelligence on tonight, folks 18:20:19 Well, I can envision a major save bump early in the 0.15 cycle so we can get some of these god ideas going properly (and to get rid of a lot of the old save compat hacks). 18:20:32 Getting rid of old code sounds good 18:20:38 God ideas? 18:20:40 So much save compat code 18:20:54 I hope they're not "Make Grunt a God" 18:21:02 Grunt: Current gods or ones to be made? 18:21:07 That's already been done. Where did you think Dith came from? 18:21:08 <_< 18:21:08 if so, we should also throw in DracoOmega 18:21:13 Basil: the latter. 18:21:18 Grunt: By that, I assume you mean you're going to make gods classes, right? 18:21:19 The Gods of 0.14 18:21:24 Gods? 18:21:25 mmm 18:21:25 reaverb: DEMIGODWANDERER 18:21:27 haha 18:21:33 Any specifics? 18:21:35 Hi dpeg. I figured that would get your attention. 18:21:45 * Grunt leaves for dinner, thrusting dpeg into the spotlight... 18:21:48 I am all ears. There are some spots left, I hear. 18:22:01 dpeg: Grunt alluded to mysterious god changes for 0.15 18:22:33 mysterious new gods 18:22:42 Hopefully we can use something like this: http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_55_0/libs/serialization/doc/index.html after the next save compat. 18:22:44 god of mystery 18:23:10 TRUNG the god of mystery 18:23:19 btw, two guys told me they're coding gods (one is pubby/buppy with the smithgod -- if everything pans out, that'll be smith/equipgod, making me happy; the other is Lasty with his sacrifice god) 18:24:11 dpeg: Sacgod being "give up an eye" and such, right? 18:24:26 -!- poopfist42 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:24:42 reaverb: tbh I don't think the save code is in some dire need of a reform; it's rather other parts of the codebase 18:24:49 What I wanted to offer (read: beg) for 0.15 are three minor bits: Okawaru gifting temporary (better quality, can become permanent if tended to), Sif library, automated sacrifices for the blood gods 18:25:03 over 11,000 functions in crawl based on grep | wc of my TAGS file 18:25:03 and ask around if someone feels like doing a real god :) 18:25:21 Basil: yes. I am sure it can be done, but already design will be painful 18:25:41 gammafunk: I think the save compat code makes it more difficult to change those parts of the code. It's impossible to, for example, make monsters classes unless save compat is dealt with. 18:25:42 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:00 Just checking 18:26:22 reaverb: making a bunch of things classes isn't really the goal; there are more important areas of the code that need attention 18:26:28 Also, do you have a specific concept of tending that can be worked on 18:26:33 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:37 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:47 Basil: for Oki? 18:26:51 Right 18:27:14 After X kills, X time, X experience 18:27:25 gammafunk: Yes I know classes are a means rather than a end. What parts in particular do you think need attention? 18:29:13 And does the weapon itself have a timer, or does Oka yank untended weapons on his own time 18:29:24 Basil: yes, of course. You get weapon/armour gifts as now (ideally: less often, better quality, no more garbage). The item is temporary, duration on the scale of 2000 turns. When you gain extra piety (for those heroic kills), *one* of your *worn/wielded* gifted items can receive an extension by some amount (say 500 turns). Counts those extensions. If enough are on a single item, it becomes permanent. You've got it! 18:29:46 (this is a pretty naive concept, feel free to bend and twist) 18:29:55 reaverb: my own perspective is pretty limited here, but beam code, and the iteraction of it with targeter classes, targeter classes interacting with direction_chooser (a class itself that needs cleanup), the attack prompt situation in general, and the giant pile of sphagetti that is monster behaviour/movement 18:29:56 "no more garbage" 18:30:21 So, plusses guaranteed to be above a certain threshold and weighted more strongly to your trained weapon type? 18:30:33 Basil: the easiest version is rolling an item like now, and then having a routing appraising it. But I am sure a better way can be found. 18:30:35 it should at least be as good as scroll acquirement 18:30:35 dpeg: 2000 turns would really restrict the usefulness of them to speedruns 18:30:43 Would Oka still have the +acc/-dam thing 18:30:44 Bloax: speedruns are not my concern. 18:30:59 i don't think oka is popular for speedruns... 18:31:04 another aggravating thing is how the zap stuff is used both in a player-specific way (frontend to beam for player), but is also used in some monster casting code for convenience 18:31:10 I think there are many other areas, however 18:31:13 wheals: why? "Useful" would be an improvement already. 18:31:16 Bloax: They can become permanent 18:31:28 -!- stickyfingers has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:31:33 i mean, that should be the baseline 18:31:35 but that implies killing a lot of stuff within 3000 or so turns 18:31:44 Bloax: this is what Oka is about, no? 18:31:47 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31:50 gotta go fast 18:31:55 hey, and the fact that a very tiny fraction of those 11,000+ functions are documented in a sane way 18:31:55 Not really 18:32:00 or at least, not at the moment 18:32:25 Bloax: I don't mind speedruns, actually, I like them. I'm just not willing to design for speedrunners. 18:32:44 dpeg: yes, but we appreciate it if you don't break them when that's otherwise avoidable :) 18:32:49 speedruns, I mean 18:32:53 dpeg: Well then it's probably a good idea to bump it above 2k turns. :p 18:32:59 gammafunk: this doesn't break them, I am sure 18:33:10 oh sorry, I should know the context here, but I don't 18:33:21 The point is that we should always design with ordinary 3-runers on our minds. 18:33:33 !lm * won turns<=50000 18:33:35 573886. [2014-03-12 17:51:55] bart the Slayer (L27 MfFi of Zin) entered the Tomb of the Ancients on turn 49962. (Crypt:3) 18:33:42 !lg * won turns<=50000 s=god 18:33:43 298 games for * (won turns<=50000): 45x Jiyva, 44x Trog, 30x Makhleb, 27x Ashenzari, 26x Sif Muna, 23x Elyvilon, 21x Okawaru, 20x Vehumet, 14x Lugonu, 9x Cheibriados, 7x The Shining One, 6x Zin, 5x, 5x Yredelemnul, 4x Beogh, 4x Dithmenos, 3x Fedhas, 3x Nemelex Xobeh, 2x Kikubaaqudgha 18:33:55 !lg * won turns<=40000 s=god 18:33:56 144 games for * (won turns<=40000): 24x Jiyva, 18x Elyvilon, 17x Trog, 15x Makhleb, 12x Ashenzari, 10x Okawaru, 10x Sif Muna, 9x Vehumet, 6x Lugonu, 6x Cheibriados, 4x Dithmenos, 4x Zin, 3x, 2x The Shining One, 2x Beogh, Yredelemnul, Fedhas 18:34:02 !lg * won turns<=30000 s=god 18:34:02 60 games for * (won turns<=30000): 15x Elyvilon, 10x Jiyva, 8x Trog, 5x Sif Muna, 4x Makhleb, 4x Ashenzari, 4x Okawaru, 3x, 2x Dithmenos, 2x Zin, Vehumet, Cheibriados, Yredelemnul 18:34:04 I think I'lll look at beam.cc and zap.cc now. 18:34:09 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:10 rip 18:34:35 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:36 reaverb: My child, let me bless you with the holy water of Zot...there. Be strong. 18:34:37 the idea is that even if you want an item only temporarily (say Oki coughs up something with rPois and you got Snake and Spider), then there is enough time to do that. If 2000 is too little, let's increase. But not because of speedrunning. 18:34:41 Getting reliably strong (but "temporary") gifts from Okawaru would make him pretty attractive for speedrunning. 18:34:49 Bloax: yes, that too 18:35:23 Any special considerations given to brands? 18:35:23 -!- syllogism has quit [] 18:35:33 speed pls 18:35:33 And would armour gifts still exist? 18:35:41 Basil: yes! 18:35:47 Basil: no (or only very rarely) items without egos 18:36:19 -!- johnny0_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:36:27 But aside from that, standard brand weighting? 18:36:30 yes 18:36:33 Ah 18:36:39 mmm, might want to disallow disto 18:36:45 Basil: perhaps, yes 18:36:54 or you wait until uncle Oki takes it back :) 18:36:56 Your weapon evaporates. You are cast into the Abyss! 18:36:58 (but yes, better off) 18:37:09 and taking skills into account, as now 18:37:32 Does divine acq consider skills? 18:37:44 at least for missiles 18:38:00 !source acquire.cc 18:38:01 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/acquire.cc;hb=HEAD 18:38:26 Wow, _chaos_beam_flavour() as a do loop to avoid picking a particular option in a random_choose_weighted() (As opposed to setting those weights to zero) 18:38:46 / Asking for a weapon is biased towards your skills. 18:38:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:38:58 -!- johnny0 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:39:12 Hm, one thing to consider is if you are moving fast (in a speed run situation) a larger percentage of your kills are going to be higher HD compared to you, which means you have more chances at the extensions, 18:39:28 * dpeg refuses to talk any more about speedy games. 18:39:33 dpeg: And would armour gifts go away in this system or no? 18:39:41 Divine aquirement does consider skills, but less highly than ?acq 18:40:03 when looking at beam.cc, pretend you're the protagonist in a horror film that's well past his first "big scare." You're numb to the shock and are just trying to make it out alive. 18:40:46 Basil: Okawaru would still give armour items. These would also be temporary, their duration can be extended and eventually become permanent. (Note that how I phrased it above, the more Oki stuff you use at the same time, the harder it will be to get them all across the line.) 18:41:25 unless you're speedrunning :v 18:41:32 So experience/kills/whatever are split across your divine loans. 18:42:02 When you gain extra piety (for those heroic kills), *one* of your *worn/wielded* gifted items can receive an extension by some amount (say 500 turns). Counts those extensions. If enough are on a single item, it becomes permanent. 18:42:18 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:59 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:20 dpeg: so portions of your equipment might just vanish if this timer expires? 18:43:26 hmm 18:43:53 I think probably you should get a warning in adavance of it happening. 18:44:10 So, does keying the timer reduction to piety decay sound reasonable, or should Jiyva's timer be used 18:44:33 ~100 turns out your equipement starts fading or something 18:44:34 well I'd forsee having to carry backup equipment, at least potentially 18:44:41 * Grunt opens the door. Ashenzari warns you: He is. 18:44:45 what are you talking about 18:44:55 and why did formicids get nerfed again 18:44:58 We're talking about how to get rid of Lightlis. 18:44:59 In the buff against greater nagas 18:45:29 nuderobin becomes a thing 18:45:36 (probably already is) 18:45:38 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:45:56 gammafunk: it would vibrate in advance 18:45:59 Grunt: That seems unwise. 18:46:01 Maybe a buff to jellyrobin? 18:46:17 Your plate mail feels unusually breezy. 18:46:27 dpeg: Well, I mean wouldn't it encourage the player to keep backup equipment? 18:46:33 perhaps we can use tension to make it poof 18:46:34 s/mail/armour 18:46:47 gammafunk: they'd have to, yes 18:46:59 hmm 18:47:00 yeah, but it sounds like they'd have to do so in inventory 18:47:13 if you run around with temporary trousers of rNeighbour, you'd carry a spare set in your backpack 18:47:14 Maybe poof at low tension would avoid the awkwardness of most tension mechanics? 18:47:28 Basil: ^ 18:47:31 I'd suggest that the equipment is light or 0 weight until it becomes permanant, just to avoid trying to carry around two suits of platemail... ;) 18:47:39 this sounds like inventory hell 18:47:52 yeah, unless the equipment is free to carry 18:47:59 Zannick: it is common that players several sets. Now one of the pieces is divine. 18:48:14 does low tension still have the problem of invis monsters? 18:48:20 i dont think i've ever run across someone who carries multiple sets of armour 18:48:21 It's not terribly common to carry two pieces of heavy armour 18:48:25 Probably 18:48:40 dpeg: i don't usually carry multiple heavy armours on me. if the one i'm wearing disappears i'd have to ^f and run back to another 18:48:41 crate: I often carry several robes and ego side gear 18:48:42 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:49:01 i feel lucky if i get even one ego item for aux slots 18:49:14 I've never carried two sets of body body armour, it takes two long to swap, occasionally I'll carry like boots of flying or something. 18:49:27 lighter armour is less an issue, yes, but extra heaver armour sounds more onerous 18:49:30 my current guy has and uses a robe of MR and one of resistance 18:49:30 I keep whatever rC+/rF+ armor I find just in case I run across a volcano or ice cave. 18:49:52 with robes specifically i've carried more than one occasionally but usually i don't even do that since it's such a pain 18:50:17 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:44 anyway, the idea is that you get a divine item (of actually good quality), and you decide on the spot if it is good for you: either temporarily or in the hope of making it permanent 18:51:02 I'm not sure that having armour spontaneously disappear is the most intersting thing; what about if oka merely degrades the armour to be more normal? 18:51:16 variations are possible: e.g. Oki will only gift another one if you only wear un-divine or permanentified ones 18:51:18 (i would also caution that this sounds kind of complicated for a god who is currently very simple!) 18:51:33 hrm, perhaps something to consider for ignis 18:51:36 gammafunk: ah, good point: take away ego but keep the base piece! 18:51:39 gammafunk: Like it's enchantments fade and it becomes vanilla? 18:51:44 yeah, that 18:51:47 I like that. 18:51:58 crate: yes, we are aware of that. We should still be allowed to think. 18:52:08 if you want to change oka armour gifts i'd just suggest he improves your current armour (temporarily, if you want to use that) 18:52:12 instead of gifting you new things 18:52:20 or maybe he keeps empty-slot gifts 18:52:30 improving existing armour is also interesting idea 18:52:31 crate: that is the other avanue, but I reckoned that players are really in love with the gifts, so why not start from there. 18:52:34 hmm 18:52:35 I should figure out when Oka first started gifting armour; that wasn't the original design. 18:53:00 Well 18:53:03 Okawaru, god of darts // XXX - rework this later 18:53:08 well i've never found his gifts very exciting except for getting bardings on na/ce 18:53:17 I have a proposal on the wiki that does both (Oki lends and improved stuff) but I am certain we should start with only one. 18:53:20 In any case, probably shouldn't grant strength ego to your equipment 18:53:26 I once got gifted randart +9 PDA 18:53:30 if it fades away ever 18:53:35 Looks like the armour appeared in Crawl 3.00. 18:53:40 Before that it was just weapons. 18:53:54 i think trog also gave armour then, right? 18:53:54 crate: many players absolutely love the gifts, some seem to think it's the main thing about the god. 18:54:02 or at some point 18:54:13 oka improving equipment would be pretty cool 18:54:21 well the exciting part of the gifts is mainly potential egos imo 18:54:31 ??okawaru[/fan] 18:54:31 I don't have a page labeled okawaru/fan in my learndb. 18:54:33 it would, but there's the smithgod possibly coming... 18:54:40 s??okawaru[fan 18:54:40 okawaru[3/5]: < valrus> I AM OKAWARU, GOD OF COMBAT AND FIVE DOLLARS FOR THE OSCILLATING FAN IS MY FINAL OFFER 18:54:43 yes 18:54:51 i guess for body armour you could get cpa ... dragon armour gifts are so rare that they mostly do not exist except for og/tr 18:54:55 my twist on Oki improvement would be that he can also touch randarts... so under Oka you could work up that -5,-6 bardiche {awesome egos} into a great item. 18:54:56 Well, and getting dragon armour or barding (Which are both rare base types) 18:55:21 clearly he should gift dragon armor more often 18:55:33 wheals: I understand smithgod... these two would not clash 18:55:36 to help differentiate him from smithgod 18:56:25 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:14 *rofl* I think that's the first time I noticed that the octopode-with-blade-tentacles splash screen is holding a flower 18:58:13 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:58:17 <|amethyst> have any of the servers been rebuilt for the poison rescale yet? 18:59:37 -!- Eonwe1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:54 It looks like CLAN may have rebuilt itself? 19:00:00 Other than that it doesn't look like it. 19:00:02 <|amethyst> hm 19:00:33 <|amethyst> I guess the save compat problem isn't that terrible, just means that people will become less poisoned when they transfer from old to new 19:00:36 it didn't have save compat code, but loading will only reduce the poison by x25, right? 19:00:39 yeah 19:01:08 <|amethyst> and if any servers were rebuilt, fixing it would multiply saves from between those versions by 25 19:01:41 I wonder if I should sneak infiniplex's layouts in. 19:02:01 (It'd give me an excuse to visit Elf in my next game...) 19:03:12 Grunt * 0.14-a0-3281-gb24e923: Insignificant whitespace fix. (5 minutes ago, 50 files, 174536+ 4554-) http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b24e9232fd7c 19:03:27 * Grunt gestures. wheals is blown up! 19:05:22 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 19:07:10 Grunt: those probably need some more testing; they look neat, but I'd worry about cleaning up the problems before 0.15 19:07:14 er 19:07:15 0.14 19:07:50 If they turn out to be hugely problematic, we can always disable them for the final release. 19:08:09 * gammafunk recalls someone warning him about merging new content at this point... 19:08:18 isn't it time for someone to say feature freeze 19:08:31 We basically are feature-frozen at this point. <_< 19:08:43 good! 19:08:58 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 19:08:59 is 8252 ready to be in the release? i'd prefer that we don't split shop interface changes 19:09:12 * wheals gestures. Grunt is feature-frozen! 19:09:26 * gammafunk freezes Grunt. Grunt slows down. 19:09:34 * Grunt seems unharmed. 19:09:53 * Lightli attempts to memorize Ice Storm! 19:10:09 Dungeon layouts aren't exactly *content* in the traditional sense, in my mind <_< 19:10:20 Content would be new enemies, new spells, new branches, ... 19:10:26 Lightli: You feel sick. Interrupting memorization. 19:10:31 wow, language lawyer here... 19:10:36 New gameplay mechanics, really. 19:11:05 We don't know how well those will play with all the elf vaults... 19:11:07 one, two, bladehands cleaving before anyone sees anything, three 19:11:28 (I am supportive of getting them merged quickly in the 0.15-a branch) 19:11:29 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:11:49 Error Invalid type crash...nuuu. 19:12:59 * Grunt shrugs. 19:13:24 elliptic: what did I miss? 19:13:40 oh, I just didn't know that gargoyles had stone arrow now 19:13:44 Aha. 19:13:58 also spriggan druids 19:14:08 Oh, that reminds me. 19:14:26 http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/trunk-updates-11-march-2014#comment-1552 19:14:33 (the second comment in case it doesn't scroll properly) 19:15:06 !apt sp 19:15:06 Sp: Fighting: -2*, Short: 1, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -3*, Polearms: -3*, Staves: -3*, Slings: 2, Bows: 2, Xbows: 0, Throw: 1, Armour: -3*, Dodge: 4!, Stealth: 5!, Shields: -3*, UC: -2*, Splcast: 2, Conj: -3*, Hexes: 2, Charms: 4!, Summ: -2, Nec: -1, Tloc: 4!, Tmut: 3!, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -1, Earth: -1, Poison: 0, Inv: 0, Evo: 4!, Exp: -1, HP: -3, MP: 3! 19:15:15 not even all that weird for a player sp 19:15:31 they have kind of an "of the earth" theme, don't they? 19:15:32 It's surprisingly plausible. 19:15:48 lord knows what the myth of spriggans actually centers around 19:15:49 When I saw that change, I said to myself, "clearly they're mini-Sky now" 19:15:50 <_< 19:16:04 Sky the player? 19:16:08 !gamesby Sky 19:16:08 Sky has played 7322 games, between 2011-03-22 04:28:16 and 2014-03-12 21:36:01, won 40 (0.5%), high score 9242884, total score 187793142, total turns 62990951, play-time/day 1:42:45, total time 77d+13:36:54. 19:16:14 !lg Sky s=crace 19:16:15 7322 games for Sky: 3720x Spriggan, 774x Deep Elf, 516x Troll, 347x Tengu, 239x Octopode, 178x Naga, 162x High Elf, 150x Djinni, 149x Mummy, 115x Felid, 102x Human, 95x Kobold, 90x Vampire, 82x Merfolk, 78x Demigod, 74x Ghoul, 69x Draconian, 63x Gargoyle, 49x Hill Orc, 42x Lava Orc, 37x Formicid, 36x Sludge Elf, 32x Centaur, 29x Deep Dwarf, 26x Ogre, 23x Mountain Dwarf, 19x Minotaur, 8x Halfling, ... 19:16:22 s??sky[Iron_Shot 19:16:22 I don't have a page labeled sky[Iron_Shot in my learndb. 19:16:24 ... 19:16:34 ??sky[8 19:16:34 sky[8/14]: wowwwwwwww cleared elf and STILL no iron shot elf/orc/lair/ all cleared, no iron shot found. while worshiping sif this is going to be a hard game :\ Sky_, believe it or not the game is winnable without casting Iron Shot :) i know there's crystal spear :p 19:17:31 when you rework iron shot, make the spell "Sky's scattershot" or something similar 19:18:34 skytershot 19:18:39 The spell I have here is "Scattershot" already; just need to turn "Sky" into a sorcerous name somehow <_< 19:18:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:19:02 rakshasa (08R) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 46-87 | AC/EV: 10/14 | Dam: 20 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(146), 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 991 | Sp: mystic blast (3d16), phantom mirror, blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:19:02 %??rakshasa 19:19:35 Rak Skytsar's Scattershot 19:20:00 would anyone have a problem with Mara and rakshasa being on & 19:20:10 They're not panlords! 19:20:10 so that R remains as meregly "magical creature" 19:20:17 but they're demons 19:20:29 isn't R just dryads now 19:20:30 We have other demons that aren't on the normal demon glyphs. <_< 19:20:34 demonic crawler (09s) | Spd: 13 | HD: 9 | HP: 44-73 | AC/EV: 10/6 | Dam: 13, 13, 13 | 05demonic, see invisible | Res: 06magic(96), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 352 | Sz: Big | Int: insect. 19:20:34 %??demonic crawler 19:20:36 hell hound (11h) | Spd: 15 | HD: 5 | HP: 16-38 | AC/EV: 6/13 | Dam: 13 | 05demonic, sense invisible, !sil | Res: 06magic(20), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 08holy++ | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 147 | Sp: b.flame (3d10) | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 19:20:36 %??hell hound 19:20:39 efreet (05R) | Spd: 10 | HD: 7 | HP: 27-52 | AC/EV: 10/5 | Dam: 17 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(28), 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 361 | Sp: b.fire (3d15), fireball (3d15) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 19:20:39 %??efreet 19:20:39 Geryon (03&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 300 | AC/EV: 15/6 | Dam: 35(reach) | 05demonic, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, fly | Res: 06magic(120), 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 4427 | Sp: sum.hell beast | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 19:20:39 %??geryon 19:20:43 &&&&&&& 19:20:45 Geryon isn't a panlord either 19:20:46 oh that too 19:20:47 hell hounds demonic? surely not 19:20:55 panlord or helllord or whatever <_< 19:20:59 hell hounds are demonic but not demons 19:21:13 mara seems to be pretty much a demon 19:21:19 and a very nasty one no less 19:21:20 let's just delete all the monsters on R :P 19:21:22 efreet are also demons as you see 19:21:26 * Grunt deletes bh. 19:21:32 and they would not be missed now imo 19:21:39 efreets we can have as "magical fire being" 19:21:49 -!- bh is now known as bh_deleted 19:21:51 efreets were _just_ added to late D fluff! 19:21:53 but they're demons! 19:22:00 tenofswords: they were already in D actually 19:22:03 elliptic: thanks. 19:22:09 how much colorspace do we have on &? 19:22:11 -!- bh_deleted is now known as bh 19:22:13 well yes, at abysmal rates 19:22:14 death cob (08%) | Spd: 25 | HD: 10 | HP: 48-81 | AC/EV: 10/15 | Dam: 20 | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(40), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 1016 | Sz: tiny | Int: normal. 19:22:14 %??death cob 19:22:18 and demonic crawlers and hounds are different, since they have lower intelligence 19:22:20 tenofswords: more like abyssal rates 19:22:22 and then grunt removed them and then dracoomega re-added them 19:22:22 Panlords can be any & right now. 19:22:22 Grunt: https://dobrazupa.org/saves/elliptic-crawl-git-c5434703b6-140313-0022.tar.bz2 19:22:26 different I say! 19:22:41 I removed them because they had like a 0.01% chance of ever showing up. <_< 19:22:48 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:22:53 We have plenty of room on % for monsters. Like the Snozzcumberupaugous 19:22:59 And now they have a non-trivial chance of showing up, so... 19:23:01 -!- PleasingFungus has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:08 Antaeus (11C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 700 | AC/EV: 28/4 | Dam: 7512(cold:22-65), 3012(cold:22-65) | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, amphibious, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 10elec++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: flash freeze (3d29), b.lightning (3d25) | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 19:23:08 <|amethyst> %??antaeus 19:23:09 clearly I should drop the forest vault finishing touches and finish off stone/clay golems to satisfy wheals's carnal removal desires 19:23:12 Serpent of Hell (05D) | Spd: 14 | HD: 20 | HP: 160 | AC/EV: 16/12 | Dam: 35, 15, 1507(trample) | 05demonic, 10doors, see invisible, fly, !sil | Res: 06magic(186), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 9378 | Sp: hellfire (3d20), fire breath (3d40) | Sz: Huge | Int: high. 19:23:12 <|amethyst> %??serpent of hell 19:23:22 titan (06C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 86-133 | AC/EV: 10/3 | Dam: 55 | 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(186), 10elec++, 12drown | XP: 2589 | Sp: b.lightning (3d24), minor healing (2d10), airstrike (0-50) | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 19:23:22 %??Titan 19:23:26 ??serpent of hell 19:23:26 serpent of hell[1/1]: A proper unique in 0.8+. It will randomly appear in one of the branches of hell and have suitable abilities to match. Hellfire and flame breath in Geh, freezing cloud and refrigeration in Coc, miasma and bolt of draining in Tar and metal splinters and quicksilver breath in Dis. Able to open doors like Xtahua. 19:23:27 monstrous demonspawn (156) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 92-109 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 20, 15, 15 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, see invisible | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 957 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 19:23:27 %??monstrous demonspawn 19:23:31 we can accomodate mara/rakshasa on & 19:23:33 forest vault?? 19:23:35 FOREST VAULT 19:23:40 !send wheals ANT VAULT 19:23:41 Sending ANT VAULT to wheals. 19:23:42 are iron golems removed, then? 19:23:49 Why can Xtahua open doors? 19:24:01 he's very old. 19:24:01 huh, Asmo is lightmagenta 19:24:03 THERE ARE TWOLAIR:8 FOREST VAULTS, ONE OF WHICH IS HELL FOREST 19:24:06 iron golems will stay in dis and one or two dis-themed things but will also be absent 19:24:06 <|amethyst> same reason he can talk? 19:24:16 <|amethyst> Dragonform players can open doors too 19:24:18 seems like prime lightred candidate to me 19:24:19 sounds good 19:24:22 Clearly Xtahua just body-slams the door... 19:24:23 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:31 I'd be pretty OK with "creatures that can trample just bust down doors" 19:24:32 tso blessed my iron golem earlier today. 19:24:33 very kind of him. 19:24:42 ...how did you get an iron golem o_O 19:24:44 I'm so going to move mara/rakshasa to & in this spreadsheet, and no one can stop me 19:24:50 * Grunt removes gammafunk. 19:24:51 Grunt: dis shadow creatures of course 19:24:53 (of course, I'll still be using some earth elementals in some places... but they've got more than half the health and it'd be only one monster filling a role of four) 19:24:54 Aha. 19:24:57 (and amso to lightred) 19:25:06 yep, summon scroll 19:25:13 rip pink asmo 19:25:21 honestly I was hoping for more than one iron golem, but rip 19:25:33 !send PleasingFungus the iron giant 19:25:33 Sending the iron giant to PleasingFungus. 19:25:37 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:44 clearly replace iron golems with iron elementals 19:25:56 golems are very bad allies since they're reflective and also don't regen and all allies are tortured before you find them and 19:25:57 I was fighting two hell sentinels at once. an iron giant would have come in handy 19:26:03 since everyone is here 19:26:06 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZdFxdVlU_PiU0G8sNUYytl9oQEovU8H8tc76yXS_65I/edit?usp=sharing 19:26:12 leaving would also have been a good move 19:26:14 -!- raskol has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:19 also I basically just compressed iron elementals into metal gargoyles 19:26:19 if you want to see current glyph move progress and make changes 19:26:25 should have given them slow 19:26:42 it is good that program bug has a place 19:27:31 tenofswords: are iron elementals going away then? 19:27:41 iron elemental (10E) | Spd: 6 | HD: 12 | HP: 84-129 | AC/EV: 20/2 | Dam: 40 | 11non-living, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 891 | Sp: iron shot (3d24), slow, metal splinters (3d27) | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 19:27:41 %??iron elemental 19:27:56 huh. that's a summon elemental thing, I assume? 19:28:04 the iron giant (10C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 22 | HP: 220 | AC/EV: 18/2 | Dam: 60 | 10items, 10doors, fighter, !sil | Res: 06magic(117), 05fire, 02cold, 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 5362 | Sp: iron shot (3d37), sum.iron elementals | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 19:28:04 %??the iron giant 19:28:05 ??iron elemental 19:28:05 I don't have a page labeled iron_elemental in my learndb. 19:28:07 no, they're placed in vaults 19:28:09 a sprint thing 19:28:10 ah 19:28:13 sprints! 19:28:15 except for some reason also not a sprint thing now i guess 19:28:16 oh, really sprint only? 19:28:16 it's always sprints 19:28:21 sorry 19:28:22 I seem to recall them in a vault as well 19:28:38 did grunt add him to dis 19:28:42 (I do have some work to get the iron giant to place as a normal unique, but the iron giant is kind of boring right now. 19:28:58 wheals: I have a patch for it, but I'm sitting on it until I can figure out how to make the iron giant properly interesting <_< 19:29:08 hangedman_player_shredder and hangedman_research_geology are the current non-sprint iron elemental incarnations 19:29:09 call him dispater 19:29:20 in trunk or your branch? 19:29:21 (writing down to replace both) 19:29:24 trunk 19:29:28 player_shredder 19:29:28 huh 19:29:29 How subtle 19:29:33 -!- atrodo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:29:44 player shredder is a good name 19:29:51 vault naming is one of the best parts of vault making 19:29:51 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:29:53 Grunt: oh, in your patch with him using throw, does that have a check to make sure he's adjacent to the player? 19:29:56 I seem to recall it didn't 19:30:06 iron elementals work nicely in sprint because slow works on stuff there 19:30:07 since he doesn't constrict, I assume 19:30:08 gammafunk: it used exactly the same code as crushers... 19:30:14 gammafunk: shouldn't hellbinder/cloud mage remain in @? they aren't real uniques but they're kind of similar 19:30:22 but not so much outside it i think 19:30:22 gammafunk: he had a grab attack in that incarnation (like mimics). 19:30:26 s/he/it/ 19:30:28 Grunt: yeah you need an adjacency check then, since constrict does that implicitely 19:30:33 -!- buzzykins has quit [Quit: later] 19:30:35 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:48 gammafunk: already accounted for! :b 19:30:54 ok, then 19:31:00 -!- Porost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:31:00 -!- kilobyte has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:31:15 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:22 marvinpa: yeah, I'll cut 'em out of not-sprint 19:31:57 make sure to put toenail golems in golem_globe 19:31:58 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:32:36 hrm, k->y is kind of problematic, not sure if it's necessary 19:32:52 <|amethyst> gammafunk: shadow was in two places, removed it from p 19:32:56 what were the other big glyph problems? the @/p situation is pretty much done 19:32:58 k -> a works 19:33:06 also kind of I 19:33:06 something about H? 19:33:10 (was a thing) 19:33:11 |amethyst: I think that may be in mons-data.h somehow though 19:33:18 since this is a paste from your table 19:33:22 i have k->y in my config, the only weird thing is queen bee i think? 19:33:34 <|amethyst> gammafunk: right, but it's been edited hasn't it? 19:33:36 Clearly put queen bee on Q. 19:33:40 -!- johnny0_ is now known as johnny0 19:33:41 Likewise queen ant. 19:33:42 <_< 19:33:49 http://sprunge.us/WXBE 19:33:50 |amethyst: yeah, there are two; the second is player shadow 19:33:52 that's how i did it 19:33:57 <|amethyst> ohhh 19:34:00 both described as "shadow" 19:34:13 so it should be on there, but probably as that 19:34:19 "player shadow" I mean 19:34:22 <|amethyst> I think that one should be W as well 19:34:23 -!- Kalma has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:34:48 move queen ant to lightblue imo 19:34:48 right, I'll do that then 19:34:56 one of the very few things I haven't resolved yet: elemental_laboratory uses the four elementals, molten gargoyle for fire/earth, vapour for water/air, fire vortex for fire/air... and clay gole for earth/water 19:35:02 anyway i'm not bothered enough by k->y to move it from my rc to the spreadsheet, wouldn't be opposed if someone else thinks it should be spreadsheeted though obviously 19:35:07 I hate to break this even if it's silly 19:35:26 MarvinPA: what about the color problems: yellow bee but also yellow wasp? 19:35:30 that's my only concern 19:35:43 seems odd to make killer bees not-yellow 19:35:45 gammafunk: don't we have two yellows? 19:35:51 killer bees are brown 19:35:55 I guess they could be brown and yeah move queen 19:36:02 the question is mosquitoes 19:36:03 they already are brown and queen is yellow 19:36:10 wheals: those are undead, so that's not hard 19:36:31 white, or a magenta, doesn't really matter in my mind 19:36:33 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 19:36:46 oh right, something else comes to mind while doing a glyph revolution 19:37:13 it'd be nice to put small and large zombie as colours of one glyph and then the non-derived things currently stuck on z on another glyph 19:37:44 would be nice, yes 19:37:50 skeletons on same as zombie glyph? 19:37:55 http://sprunge.us/SDIV 19:38:11 skeleton, zombie, and simulacrum 19:39:26 (Clearly put plants of some sort for earth/water, btw.) 19:39:37 ETC_TREE 19:39:40 that is so terrible 19:39:41 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:45 that I will probably do it 19:40:03 1learn add Grunt that is so terrible 19:40:32 the second line as well imo 19:41:09 tenofswords: if we move all the derived to colors of Z, why not leave non-derived on z? 19:41:36 just to avoid confusion given the current situation? 19:41:42 any thoughts about making the wizlab semi-uniques @s like real uniques? 19:42:00 they're elemental colors, so that'd be fine 19:42:21 and even if they weren't, they have the most limited placement imagineable 19:42:52 not as limited as vine stalkers 19:43:05 gammafunk: hmm, sounds good 19:45:17 hrm. I wonder if a unique kraken could be interesting 19:45:37 bh: There was a proposal on the Tavern once, search for "Heart of Zot" IIRC 19:45:48 another swamp unique would be cool 19:45:56 wheals: a kraken in the swamp! 19:46:09 of course, it would be boring in the shoals 19:46:14 bh: It was part of a end-game proposal for a Pan alternative, with other multi-tile monsters focusing on acid and mutations. 19:46:49 reaverb: you have a good memory. That thread is three years old 19:47:06 bh: I wasn't here three years ago. I read it like six months ago. 19:47:12 ah 19:47:13 here being the community. 19:48:08 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:24 -!- roxton has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:49:38 I realized after sometime of source-looking (triggered by my disucssion w/gammafunk) it would be possible to centralize plenty of the things you need for to make for a monster in a class without altering save compat. 19:49:49 -!- Amnesiac has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:50:29 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 19:50:38 So for example, you would be able to define a monster's band, the function which equips them, their HD and such, and possibly their spells all in one file. Each monster would get their own file, Ideally. 19:50:45 errrr 19:50:46 I guess in that vein, moving butterflies to y? 19:51:07 moth of peacefulness 19:51:07 hrm, that's a problem due to colors, I guess; not sure how that works 19:51:19 Leave butterflies where they are :( 19:51:23 possibly could stop making butterflies random colourssssss 19:51:25 yeah, probably 19:51:28 Each monster getting their own file sounds slightly scary 19:51:58 butterflies are like ugly things, they need their own glyph! 19:52:05 butterfly (16b) | Spd: 25 | HD: 1 | HP: 3-8 | AC/EV: 0/25 | fly | Res: 06magic(4) | Vul: 09poison | XP: 0 | Sz: tiny | Int: insect. 19:52:05 %??Butterfly 19:52:07 !send wheals bats 19:52:08 Sending bats to wheals. 19:52:08 ....k then? 19:52:10 -!- chris-oelmueller is now known as Guest41409 19:52:10 hehe 19:52:14 (remove phoenixes and vampire bats and fire bats) 19:52:15 k is empty now 19:52:16 -!- rlund_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52:18 DracoOmega: Ideally Ideally this would include allowing folder in the source, so all the monster definitions would be in a tidy folder with in the source (like dat and rtiles) 19:52:25 I like fire batsssssss 19:52:25 clearly %utterflies should be on % 19:52:37 kutterflies 19:52:40 at least, while they serve as lava fodder and abyss fodder 19:52:45 better than yutterflies 19:53:03 gammafunk: where did the queen bee and firefly go 19:53:06 (remove fireflies) 19:53:08 Squish sp into one glyph 19:53:08 Bloax: whoa......... 19:53:11 so we can have sputterflies 19:53:12 <_< 19:53:33 -!- phyphor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:01 -!- cr0ne has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:31 -!- ChrisOelmueller has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:39 iutterflies 19:55:05 (On uniques and @: Last time glyphs came up wasn't the big idea to change some of the human uniques to other speices? For example, Maurice could be a spriggan, Louise a Gargoyle, Jessica a vinestalker...) 19:55:33 Maurice would be so much more annoying as a Spriggan 19:55:36 most of those would be agonizing changes but it's not a bad notion 19:55:39 maurice is a halfling 19:55:39 * Grunt remembers thinking Maurice was a halfling for the longest time <_< 19:55:52 ??maurice 19:55:52 maurice[1/4]: A unique thief! He's that green @ that just stole something out of your inventory, and then teleported away. Has a cloak. 19:56:00 my list is Erica GE | Frances HD | Joseph SE 19:56:07 <3 19:56:09 The "Maurice keeps your loot when you pacify him" bug sucked 19:56:16 wheals: all to y 19:56:36 ok, good 19:57:15 hrm, I and E? 19:57:36 not much on either glyph, but is there a preferred direction for that merge 19:58:15 probably all to E, I suppose 20:03:14 -!- jeffro_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:03:54 huh 20:04:02 just got penance for killing a confused hell knight with cleansing flame 20:04:06 should I have been warned first? 20:04:34 Ideally, yes 20:04:46 don't think cleansing flame has a bad attack check, unfortunately 20:04:47 There are more than a few cases where this doesn't actually happen, though 20:04:53 yeah, spit poison 20:05:08 also breathe flame for dith 20:05:35 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:06:38 DracoOmega: I question whether you should ever be able to get penance from using a *god ability* at all... 20:07:01 but that's TSO, I guess 20:07:03 That is a point 20:07:17 Only if worshiping xom 20:07:31 Maybe TSO isn't paying attention to where you used it until afterward 20:07:40 "You need some cleansing flame? Sure thing! Wait, what!?" 20:07:56 Like allowance money 20:10:25 -!- _aardvark has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:22 DracoOmega: how does rPois work with newpoison? is it 1/10 the amount or 1/10 chance of getting the full amount, or somewhere in between? 20:11:41 1/10 of getting the full amount, I am fairly sure 20:11:51 okay, I've just been unlucky then 20:12:31 (And AF_STRONG_POISON delivers 1/3 of the normal amount at the normal rate) 20:12:37 1/2* 20:12:50 water moccasin (07S) | Spd: 14 (swim: 60%) | HD: 5 | HP: 16-38 | AC/EV: 2/15 | Dam: 1008(poison:11-19) | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(20), 03poison, 12drown | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 149 | Sz: small | Int: reptile. 20:12:50 %??water moccasin 20:15:44 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:16:29 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 20:19:13 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:21 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:48 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:21:44 elliptic: Something DOES seem a bit off, actually 20:22:29 DracoOmega: see _maybe_reduce_poison in player.cc 20:22:31 At least this curare is working way more than would be statistically likely 20:22:43 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:47 The way it works right now, it basically is a 90% reduction. 20:22:52 it looks like each point of poison rolls the 90% chance independently 20:23:07 which made sense when poison severity was numbers like 1 and 2 20:23:28 Oh, huh 20:23:41 I just assumed what it ALREADY did was 90% nothing, 10% full value 20:23:50 I only changed the bit where you actually get poisoned by an assigned quantity 20:24:00 so did I... I guess that is what it did for poison 1 20:24:04 Yeah 20:24:19 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:24:23 This is a rather bad interaction with curare, anyway 20:24:33 Since there's a very high chance of SOMETHING slipping through and triggering slow 20:24:53 it is a bad interaction with poison in general, since it means you get all the poison message spam still even though the poison amounts are small 20:25:00 Well, sure 20:25:03 I mean especially there 20:25:11 Where even 1 poison damage has a special meaning 20:25:17 right 20:25:37 So probably just make it ACTUALLY have a 90% chance of cancelling fully? 20:26:04 that seems best to me, I think 20:26:23 Just checking, would any tomatoes get thrown if I removed chaos shafting attackers? 20:26:25 Tiny poison quantities don't work as well as larger ones, when I was tweaking general numbers. They're rather invisible. 20:26:36 I don't know exactly how all this interacts with AF_STRONG_POISON or AF_NASTY_POISON or AF_REALLY_NASTY_POISON or whatever we currently have 20:26:39 So it's better to have rarer application of more than more frequent application of less 20:26:43 elliptic: just the first one! 20:26:49 There's only AF_POISON and AF_POISON_STRONG 20:27:00 Well, also AF_WEAKNESS_POISON I guess :P 20:27:01 Basil: I'd remove chaos transforming attackers first 20:27:03 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 20:27:18 agentcrap (L26 HaAK) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (Depths:2) 20:27:18 Basil: i.e. if you remove that then I won't throw the tomatoes if you also remove the shafting :P 20:27:27 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all!] 20:27:39 DracoOmega: does your deterministic poison patch make poison more dangerous? 20:27:42 elliptic: What AF_POISON_STRONG does is just forcibly apply half the normal poison value if you have rPois, so it bypasses the 90% thing entirely 20:27:42 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 20:28:06 ah 20:28:26 bh: It should for later-game poison status stuff. The aim was to avoid making it scarier early, though 20:28:34 DracoOmega: do you know how much poison curare applied to the player before your changes? 20:28:34 That was also on the list of removals yes 20:28:46 OK. My subjective early game perception was that it seemed scarier 20:28:52 %git 5e333ce7 20:28:53 07Matthew_Cline02 * 0.5-a0-1201-g5e333ce: Changed weights of the brands a chaos weapon might simulate and the weight of the various chaos effects, to make chaos brand less powerful. 10(5 years ago, 10 files, 651+ 48-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5e333ce7bdf8 20:28:58 ...there's why we have shafting on chaos. 20:29:02 * Grunt looks for transformations. 20:29:06 elliptic: It was really hard to calculate anything approaching a realistic average, I found. In most cases I just had to pick new numbers that felt reasonable in testing. 20:29:14 Grunt: Xom thinks this is hilarious. 20:29:19 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:29:27 DracoOmega: right, I'm just wondering what the chance was of curare slowing through rPois before your changes 20:29:30 elliptic: Due to huge ranges, and extra chance of levels wearing off at 1 hp and so on 20:29:31 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:29:45 %git 4aa3aa2a8 20:29:45 07kilobyte02 * 0.13-a0-298-g4aa3aa2: Double the chance for chaos attacks to polyself the attacker. 10(11 months ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4aa3aa2a8025 20:29:52 hm 20:29:54 since it probably wasn't 10% then either unless curare only tried to apply one poison 20:29:57 elliptic: Well, it slows if it did one level of poison, so I guess that's a bit MORE than 90%, since it applied more than one level sometimes 20:30:00 oh 20:30:05 %git c6fb27718 20:30:05 07kilobyte02 * 0.12-a0-2765-gc6fb277: A rare effect for weapons of shafting: polyself into a weapon-using form. 10(12 months ago, 1 file, 18+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c6fb277187eb 20:30:07 LESS* 20:30:09 ...looking at the wrong commit <_< 20:30:47 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:31:13 I will try to pull up the old numbers 20:31:52 apparently it was 1d3 20:32:00 s??source[@ 20:32:00 I don't have a page labeled source[@ in my learndb. 20:32:01 Oh, quicker than me 20:32:05 ??git 20:32:05 git[1/2]: Readonly: git clone git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl.git Read/Write: git@gitorious.org:crawl/crawl.git Web interface: http://git.develz.org/?p=crawl.git or http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 20:32:59 so that means that the chance of an rPois player resisting the asphyx/slow was (0.9+0.9^2+0.9^3)/3 20:33:06 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: sleep] 20:33:14 so 81% 20:33:46 Just make all rPois checks 80% chance of resist instead of 90% and call it even? :P 20:33:55 plague shambler (07n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 66-99 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 3407(plague) | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(73), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 857 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 20:33:55 %??plague_shambler 20:34:03 that is a pretty large rPois nerf for other things, though 20:34:10 I wasn't wholly serious 20:34:18 I can make it seperate here 20:34:45 Was just thinking it would be cleaner overall, but it's not the first special-case for something 20:35:25 I'd say changing _maybe_reduce_poison to just be a 90% chance of reduction to 0 is good 20:35:37 and then either special-case curare to be 80% or just let it be 90% 20:36:29 I think I'd rather not nerf curare that much, so probably I will make it 80% for that 20:36:51 alternatively, bring back the really old behavior and make the asphyx/slow ignore rPois altogether? :P 20:36:51 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:10 Ha. I don't remember ever being on the recieving end of it at that point 20:37:14 -!- ZRN has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:18 Just using it on rPois monsters 20:37:21 yeah, monsters didn't normally have it 20:37:49 Well, most sources of it still existed, no? Sonja, rare random kobolds 20:38:04 Possibly never had rPois at the time, though 20:38:16 well you don't care if kobolds hit you with curare 20:38:23 what are they going to do to you? 2 damage? 20:38:31 Well, you care about the poison damage early on 20:38:41 well sure but then you dont have rpois! 20:38:42 But probably not the slow, no 20:38:50 but we are talking about with rPois, yeah 20:38:58 I remember getting slowed by sonja through rPois 20:39:28 anyway there were a lot of very detailed discussions at the time about whether curare asphyx should check rPois, and people did decide yes 20:39:41 Kobolds need paraneedles 20:39:43 so probably we should not open that discussion again right now :P 20:39:46 new item: miasma-tipped needle 20:39:52 That discussion was long before my time :P 20:39:54 Basil: elecneedles 20:39:59 -!- whig has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:15 sleepneedles 20:40:32 fixedart blowgun "Taser" 20:40:46 The kobold stabs you! 20:40:46 5 damage 20:40:50 isn't that a trademark? 20:40:50 I think maybe I'll wait for curare vs rPois to be unbugged before continuing play on this level with a curare spriggan rider, anyway :P 20:41:11 You are now a BUGGY thing. 20:41:17 bh: yes 20:41:43 elliptic: since you play console, if you could look at the spreadsheet linked in the notes of #8242, would appreciate that 20:41:48 "The kobold tases you. Internal investigations hits the kobold. The kobold goes on paid leave. The kobold wakes up. The kobold stabs you. Ouch!!!" 20:41:50 !bug 8242 20:41:51 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8242 20:42:01 'hits' 20:42:37 elliptic: Working on it! 20:42:42 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:43:56 gammafunk: rakshasa on & seems weird (mara I can understand) 20:44:11 well, complicated by the fact that mara is described as a rakshasa 20:44:29 I'd rather put neither of them on & if there is somewhere else 20:44:38 Lord of illusion 20:44:44 hrm, I guess they could just stay on R then 20:44:52 since & should be scary stuff, and I know rakshasa were changed but I doubt they are in the same league 20:45:05 someone had complained about R for that reason, but can't remember who it was 20:45:08 evilmike maybe 20:45:09 (mara is not the same league either) 20:45:26 Is Mara as scary as Geryon, for sake of argument? 20:45:45 !fight Mara v Geryon delay:100 t:10 20:45:52 (But yes, definitely rakshasa shouldn't be &s) 20:45:55 In my opinion 20:45:56 rip Geryon 20:45:57 I'd say similar 20:46:10 Geryon has help even beyond his hell beasts 20:46:17 !fight cancel 20:46:22 !fight Mara v Geryon, 20 place:Hell delay:100 t:10 20:46:22 I think you have to be stronger to fight geryon in vestibule than you do to fight mara in D 20:46:27 Geryon buff? 20:46:34 geryon is fine nowadays 20:46:36 rip Mara 20:46:39 !fight cancel 20:46:49 since he gets good support 20:47:09 Yeah, I suppose it's fair that a large part of Geryon's threat is not just him 20:47:16 But the fact that there are tons of other demons around at the time 20:47:18 -!- notcluie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47:53 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:48:24 gammafunk: for @, it looks a bit unnecessary to have three uniques sharing a colour? they don't generate in the same places, but I'd think one could be moved anyway 20:48:34 that's pretty minor though 20:48:46 yeah, only left them because of the non-overlap 20:48:49 also they have tiles 20:48:56 which may have those colors 20:49:04 not that the tiles can't be changed, but 20:49:24 I'd rather overlap margery and rupert I think 20:49:24 Well, it's nice to have them be the same, but not enough reason for unnecessary console confusion 20:49:38 but don't those two have overlapping placement? 20:49:39 if we want to keep all of those on some shade of red 20:49:45 I don't think so? 20:49:47 margery shouldn't be red 20:49:49 I don't think so either 20:49:51 since her hell knights are 20:49:56 Well, they'll be ps, no? 20:49:58 wheals: hell knights moved 20:49:59 (or vice versa, don't remember) 20:50:02 oh, right 20:50:12 So she will stand out very clearly 20:50:15 ha 20:50:25 they actually have barely overlapping placement 20:50:27 in vaults 20:50:31 thought it was more 20:50:43 margery is v:2- 20:50:48 rupert v:1-3 20:50:50 ah 20:51:10 maybe don't let rupert into vaults at all 20:51:16 since he already gets to play in lair 20:51:27 he doesn't sound too dangerous in vaults 20:51:28 Seems fine to me 20:51:33 !lg * killer=rupert v 20:51:33 No games for * (killer=rupert v). 20:51:35 well we also have snorg in vaults 20:51:38 !lg * killer=rupert vaults 20:51:39 22. Ponce the Brawler (L15 TrTm of Kikubaaqudgha), mangled by Rupert (a +2,+4 dwarven great mace of draining) on Vaults:1 (ontoclasm_vaults_gateway) on 2013-11-13 07:20:04, with 107462 points after 35839 turns and 1:49:01. 20:51:48 snorg also probably shouldn't be in vaults 20:51:48 none since the runelock 20:51:58 oh no, I'm marginally more dangerous than a deep troll 20:52:00 roxanne? 20:52:03 * reaverb looks at his unique.des patch. 20:52:11 !lg * killer=sigmunt place=vaults 20:52:12 !lg * killer=sigmund place=vaults 20:52:12 No games for * (killer=sigmunt place=vaults). 20:52:12 elliptic: Rupert can already appear Vaults 1-3 20:52:13 No games for * (killer=sigmund place=vaults). 20:52:17 gammafunk: for E, I'm not sure about putting living and nonliving on the same glyph 20:52:29 Basil: it would be pretty silly if someone lured Sigmund to vaults and then died to him 20:52:33 well, I guess it's how much do we want to reduce glyph usage 20:52:36 Oh, you guys were already talking about that... 20:52:48 I don't see much point in reducing glyph useage for its own sake 20:52:53 Unless we have some plan to DO something with that glyph 20:52:56 !lm * uniq=sigmund place=vaults 20:52:56 and I'm not sure about removing rupert from vaults; we have a bunch of similar uniques placing there 20:52:58 122. [2014-02-26 11:16:25] crazytiger the Shatterer (L23 GrFi of The Shining One) killed Sigmund on turn 54427. (Vaults:3) 20:53:12 titan (06C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 86-133 | AC/EV: 10/3 | Dam: 55 | 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(186), 10elec++, 12drown | XP: 2589 | Sp: b.lightning (3d24), minor healing (2d10), airstrike (0-50) | Sz: Giant | Int: high. 20:53:12 %??titan 20:53:19 frances, asterion, roxanne 20:53:19 they could be removed too - we haven't really thought about unique placement in V after locking it, and maybe we should 20:53:20 Have titans always had healing? 20:53:20 That's pretty recent 20:53:25 Asterion (05H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 150 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 40, 20 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, priest, evil, see invisible | Res: 06magic(100) | Vul: 08holy, 11silver | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 3029 | Sp: major destruction (3d20), spectral weapon, haste / major destruction (3d22), spectral weapon, haste / major destruction (3d24), spectral weapon, haste / major destruction (3d25), spectral weapon, haste / major destruction (3d27), spectral weapon, haste / major destruction (3d28), spectral weapon, haste / major destruction (3d6), spectral weapon, haste | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 20:53:25 %??asterion 20:53:28 bh: Yes 20:53:29 ??asterion 20:53:30 asterion[1/1]: A unique minotaur of Makhleb with {major destruction} and {spectral weapon}. Always has a good demon weapon, a large shield, and a robe. 20:53:30 -!- Keanan has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:33 like I said, though, rupert is different from those because he places in lair 20:53:39 DracoOmega: guess I've always killed them fast enough not to notice 20:53:49 yeah, for him and snorg I could see that 20:54:05 he's got a kind of beast theme (and so does snorg) 20:54:17 s??rupertscumming[beast 20:54:18 I don't have a page labeled rupertscumming[beast in my learndb. 20:54:35 incidentally, if we did want to find a use for a free glyph, it bothers me a bit that P has both immobile and mobile monsters 20:54:46 yeah 20:54:55 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:10 hrm, how do people feel about n 20:55:19 those are only differentiated by the fact 20:55:21 that they leave corpses 20:55:30 could move the moving plants to n 20:55:36 and move existing to z 20:55:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:55:46 that would totally fill up z 20:55:49 (For sake of argument, what is n even suppoesd to mean here?) 20:55:52 Corporeal sentient undead 20:55:54 I worry a little bit about W being too crowded after this change, hm 20:56:02 n is "things you press p with fedhas to kill" 20:56:02 Fedhas pray 20:56:06 because almost all of those monsters generate in the same place (crypt) 20:56:08 DracoOmega: I guess undead that leave corpses 20:56:16 hrm 20:56:20 it is fine for H to be full because that stuff is spread out 20:56:22 No, no, I mean if you moved mobile plants there 20:56:35 but this seems potentially not great 20:56:37 DracoOmega: natural? 20:56:40 nature 20:56:44 (elf bothers me for the same reason, for the record) 20:56:54 (but that is obviously less solvable) 20:57:02 F 20:57:02 hrm, well conversely 20:57:08 some of those W could just go to n 20:57:12 flora 20:57:12 but there's the corpse issue 20:57:18 lightmagenta black bears sounds bad 20:57:26 flora/fauna 20:57:26 for the movey things 20:57:42 yeah, well on the note of "don't move it if it ain't broke" I could just undo U -> h 20:57:47 It sounds exciting 20:57:58 or U could be used for our W problem 20:57:59 U = undead 20:58:00 It looks scary and you kill it in two hits 20:58:16 s and N have similar problems with their branches 20:58:29 U -> h is good I think, the exact color choices could use improvement maybe 20:58:35 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 20:58:50 03reaver02 {Grunt} 07* 0.14-a0-3279-g4556c9e: Clean up uniques.des (#8269). 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 87+ 80-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4556c9e0d52f 20:58:52 sure, well feel free to edit that 20:58:52 blue is fine for black bears still since felids don't exist 20:58:52 (bikeshed painting) 20:58:58 IMO U is a scary glyph and could be used for something scary 20:59:05 like Bears? 20:59:10 yeah, was think some of those W 20:59:16 (I've been playing *bands recently, where those are greater demons...) 20:59:16 bUtterflies 20:59:21 imo 20:59:35 ice fUend 21:00:06 hm, I don't like player ghost on p if it is going to be the "human" glyph 21:00:09 wheals: go ahead and change the bear color think if you like 21:00:13 player ghost as elemental @ IMO 21:00:30 sure, which one 21:00:34 ETC_DEATH 21:00:35 I guess 21:00:40 only eresh uses currently 21:00:52 how do i get the right colour? 21:01:01 the background, on the sheet 21:01:12 etc_death for hellions 21:01:17 wheals: find a cell with that bg, hit the cell fill icon 21:01:19 j -> w seems reasonable to me 21:01:20 and hit custom 21:01:21 then ok 21:01:26 So the following uniques can place in both D and Vaults right now: Asterion (1-3), Azrael (1-3), Kirke (1-3), Louise (1-3), Nessos (1), Roxanne (1-3), Rupert (1-3), Snorg (1-3). 21:01:28 Solve one problem at least 21:01:28 will put the color on the recent colors list 21:01:32 I think we can afford to have none of those place in Vaults. 21:02:04 Azrael (04R) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 88 | AC/EV: 10/5 | Dam: 17 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(44), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 1263 | Sp: b.fire (3d20), sticky flame range (3d5), fireball (3d20), hellfire (3d20), 04esc:hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 21:02:04 %??azrael 21:02:12 as does k -> y 21:02:26 though for some of these I'm not sure the gain is that high either if we aren't using the vacated glyph at all 21:02:41 well, we're adding Q 21:02:50 at least keep a glyph balance 21:02:57 louise seems fine in vaults 21:02:58 right, adding a glyph dedicated for tengu is good 21:03:16 what do you think about fixing W? 21:03:21 U seems not a bad choice 21:03:24 making sure there's at least one empty glyph too 21:03:34 yeah, k is empty currently 21:03:45 splitting W into W and U could work 21:03:51 I mean, W is twice a U 21:04:00 1learn elliptic 21:04:03 so they are related! 21:04:26 merfolk = 2 necrophages 21:04:28 what is a spectral thing 21:04:43 btw 21:04:47 wheals: the things that death channel makes 21:04:51 btw, about sky/ice beast, some players already like having them on Y 21:05:00 the base monsters for enslaved souls! 21:05:01 ok, so that should go on Z 21:05:22 wheals: having them on W does have the advantage of indicating that they are insubstantial 21:05:23 and it makes a decent amount of sense to me, though Y is a little crowded 21:05:31 hrm, could do I -> Y yeah, are the colors free? 21:05:33 I definitely think they shouldn't go on E though 21:05:52 it's fine if we remove apises 21:06:00 yeah the colors are pretty much free, and we could move apis even 21:06:04 could use (light)cyan and lightblue for them, and/or remove apises yes 21:06:10 ETC_DEV_NULL 21:06:33 I'll move the current I to Y then; any thoughts on how to split W? 21:06:51 wraiths of any kind stay, I guess more purely "ghost" things to U 21:07:07 shadowy/ghosty things on U, yeah 21:07:17 spectral things also to U I suppose 21:07:32 death yak (08Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 56-97 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 30 | Res: 06magic(93) | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 873 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 21:07:32 %??death yak 21:07:32 oh, fine 21:07:32 apis (16Y) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 100-140 | AC/EV: 9/5 | Dam: 4008(holy) | 08holy | Res: 06magic(106), 04rot, 13neg+++, 08holy | XP: 1346 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 21:07:32 %??apis 21:07:37 phantom, hungry ghost, silent spectre, flayed ghost, shadow, maybe drowned soul (don't really know what they do) 21:07:54 maybe player ghost too, elemental U might be better than elemental @ if we are doing this 21:08:01 drowned souls are basically projectiles 21:08:08 clearly move to * 21:08:12 basically I guess I am saying p -> U 21:08:13 ETC_WATER 21:08:15 but * is so full 21:08:25 ok, I'll do that and see how it looks 21:08:27 not really 21:08:27 Grunt: Thanks. 21:08:30 could be p -> p and put humans on some other letter, alternatively 21:08:33 or is that sarcasm 21:08:37 I don't know how much people love the p = human thing 21:08:50 hUmans? 21:09:02 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-3280-g3e45fb5: Make rPois properly prevent all normal poison 90% of the time 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 23-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3e45fb59fad9 21:09:04 * Grunt shudders. 21:09:04 wheals: don't make me hate you 21:09:09 Grunts shudder. 21:09:21 Drown you 21:09:29 I think the idea there is we use lower characters for species already 21:09:32 e, o, q 21:09:33 isn't U for Ursine 21:09:33 it's full in that there are several elemental colours ontop of the regularly animated things 21:09:46 we don't have anything else open except j and k I guess 21:10:03 and p does seem better if we don't mind the extra glyph change for players to get used to 21:10:04 only three are real enemies though (oof and stars) 21:10:41 make (k)warves 21:10:54 What's that torment spore again? 21:11:02 lurking horror 21:11:04 Grunt: Do you like cutting off those uniques from vaults for the consistency of it? I could see Asterion wanting to be in vaults, but I agree maybe not the others 21:11:25 It's mostly a consistency thing for that entire list, yes. 21:11:34 yeah, well consistency is always nice 21:11:35 louise is dangerous even there imo 21:11:39 -!- Keanan has joined ##crawl-dev 21:11:51 Grunt: are there enough other uniques who do generate on V:1? 21:11:54 yes, some of those are definitely still dangerous there 21:11:59 elliptic: *only* on V:1? No. 21:12:09 no, not only 21:12:17 Let's see... 21:12:27 I just don't want V:1 to be guaranteed no-unique, or with only a couple of possible uniques 21:13:06 Agnes, Aizul, Donald, Jorgrun, Nikola, Norris, Saint Roka, and Wiglaf all generate on Vaults:1. 21:13:40 does donald only generate there so that he can have V speech 21:13:53 Donald can generate on V:1-4! 21:14:15 anyway that sounds like a reasonable number, so making no uniques generate in both D and V sounds good 21:14:21 Should generate on V:$ 21:14:27 it makes sense too, the way between D and V is locked! 21:14:36 so they can't move back and forth between them, need to pick one 21:14:58 Basil: and complain about wardens 21:15:11 (yes, I know aizul/agnes also generate in lair subbranches as well as V) 21:15:22 "The stairs out of here are sealed. I hate that." 21:15:23 Donald clearly has some runes, so he should have a small chance of dropping one upon death 21:15:29 @The_monster@ says, "I asked the warden where the rune was. He slammed the door in my face." 21:15:34 krunkulus (L21 OpWz) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (D:16) 21:15:35 Good line 21:15:41 I wrote that line <_<; 21:15:41 uh oh 21:15:49 krunkulus (L21 OpWz) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (D:16) 21:15:50 I blame DracoOmega! 21:15:56 gammafunk: It's already fixed 21:16:00 dang 21:16:02 Just not updated, I guess 21:16:15 I didn't even fix it myself. It just magically fixed itself while I was asleep! ^^; 21:16:16 on closer inspection it's actually a cheap plastic imitation of a rune 21:16:34 a cheap plastic imitation of the orcish rune of zot 21:16:43 rip plastic wands 21:17:35 -!- Xiberia has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:30 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3281-g702e279: Don't let any uniques generate in both D and Vaults. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=702e2796af64 21:20:16 Misleading wording! :P 21:20:19 huh, so donald can't be in D? 21:20:23 "No uniques in D and Vaults, period" 21:20:37 chaos spawn (103) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 7/12 | Dam: 2109(chaos) | 05demonic, see invisible | Res: 06magic(56), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++, 11silver | XP: 183 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 21:20:37 %??chaos spawn 21:20:43 wheals: If found it very surprsing, but yes. 21:20:45 water elemental (02E) | Spd: 10 (swim: 60%) | HD: 6 | HP: 32-53 | AC/EV: 4/7 | Dam: 2212(engulf) | 11non-living, amphibious | Res: 13magic(immune), 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire | XP: 212 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 21:20:45 %??water elemental 21:20:54 what would donald have to say about D 21:20:55 wheals: his "thing" is that he is always in a branch and then has branch-specific speech 21:20:56 fr: donald hd:20 can be in zot 21:20:58 -!- jeffro_ is now known as jeffro 21:20:58 -!- jeffro has quit [Changing host] 21:20:58 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 21:21:01 D is a branch!! 21:21:02 FR: buff donald 21:21:03 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:21:04 We could make chaos spawns into 'chaos elementals' :) 21:21:14 Donald says, "I'm underpowered. I hate that." 21:21:22 i think of D as a branch, that's why i was surprised 21:21:27 bh: again, mixing holiness unless you also want them to not be demons 21:21:29 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:21:30 does he have D speech anyway? 21:21:41 elliptic: I don't see any reason for them to be demons 21:21:41 buff reflection brand so as to incidentally buff donald 21:21:45 -!- Wah has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:21:56 i mean, he has temple speech 21:22:00 he has no D speech 21:22:02 They've always struck me as the least demonic demons 21:22:06 dha 21:22:08 ha 21:22:16 drowned soul (11p) | Spd: 12 | HD: 13 | HP: 14-25 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 012(drown) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, sense invisible, lev | Res: 06magic(69), 12cold+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 457 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:22:16 %??drowned_soul 21:22:45 @The_monster@ says, "This branch is so generic. I hate that." 21:23:26 -!- blackcustard has joined ##crawl-dev 21:24:25 -!- poopfist42 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:47 "I should really branch out sometime. I hate that." 21:24:58 umph. 21:25:38 s/sometime/more/ maybe 21:29:01 @The_monster@ says, "Demons and angels working together? I hate that." uh oh, donald's xom speech is outdated 21:30:20 krunkulus (L21 OpWz) ASSERT(range >= 0) in 'beam.cc' at line 626 failed. (beam '', source 'rakshasa', item 'none'; has range -1) (Depths:1) 21:32:27 huh, so all spectral things in console are currently W, I guess 21:33:03 probably because unlike zombies/skells, the lower letter wasn't available 21:33:14 should they go to Z along with other derived undead? 21:33:24 they could get the large/small treatment as well 21:33:26 using colors 21:33:29 <|amethyst> hm 21:33:38 Lightmagenta 21:33:46 <|amethyst> I think W is better 21:33:48 -!- AreBrandon has joined ##crawl-dev 21:33:58 <|amethyst> Since z/Z aren't entirely derived undead 21:34:09 if you're going to use z/Z for derived undead you should fix the other "z" existing yes 21:34:12 |amethyst: we're moving derived undead to Z 21:34:13 <|amethyst> and more importantly z/Z are corporeal 21:34:20 <|amethyst> oh 21:34:21 <|amethyst> hm 21:34:36 and leaving z for non-derived undead (aside from n) 21:34:45 well, and for the ghosts/wraiths 21:34:58 maybe the non-casting type of spectres should be on Z and the casting type on W 21:35:37 it's Z = derived undead, W = wraiths, U = ghosts, n = undead leaving corpses, z = the corporeal undead that don't leave corpses 21:35:40 <|amethyst> gammafunk: moving liches to z too? 21:35:48 hadn't planned on that 21:36:01 not real reason to I think 21:36:05 Liches are kind of special 21:36:12 s/not/no/ 21:36:20 move ancient champions to L then :p 21:36:28 yeah, not a bad idea 21:36:37 only issue is the similarity to skeletal warriors 21:36:40 esp in the tile 21:37:03 ancient champion (08z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 14 | HP: 61-79 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 32 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(130), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2106 | Sp: b.draining (3d21), haste, stone arrow (3d21) / b.venom (3d18), animate dead, haunt / iron shot (3d26), haste, pain (d15) / mystic blast (3d19), slow, haste | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:37:03 %??ancient champion 21:37:04 lich (15L) | Spd: 10 | HD: 20 | HP: 58-101 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 1513(drain) | 07undead, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 2732 | Sp: b.cold (3d29), paralyse, sum.greater demon, animate dead, iron shot (3d34), 04esc:teleport self / b.draining (3d27), slow, invisibility, throw icicle (3d29), crystal spear (3d40) / b.fire (3d29), confuse, haste, b.draining (3d27), sum.greater demon, 04esc:banishment / mystic blast (3d24), b.cold (3d29), invisibility, animate dead, o.destruction (9d17) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 21:37:04 %??lich 21:37:05 but we already have unborn on L, which isn't very Lich like 21:37:08 skeletal warrior (10z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 10 | HP: 56-75 | AC/EV: 15/10 | Dam: 25 | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, evil | Res: 06magic(93), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 771 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 21:37:08 %??skeletal warrior 21:37:20 i thought liches had better melee 21:37:24 ancient champions hit quite a bit harder than the other Ls, for whatever that's worth 21:37:29 crate: by similarity I mean the melee ability and the thematic link 21:37:37 not to say that precludes a move to L 21:42:11 |amethyst: well, perhaps the corporeal thing is a good enough reason to leave spectral things on W, but moving to Z would allow us to have LARGE_SPECTRAL_THING and SMALL_SPECTRAL_THING 21:42:26 in that we could do so and have different colors 21:42:51 btw, for those joining this conversation there's the spreadsheet 21:43:04 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZdFxdVlU_PiU0G8sNUYytl9oQEovU8H8tc76yXS_65I/edit?usp=sharing 21:43:14 (hopefully in the final editing stages) 21:43:46 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:35 hrm, I think the only major issue remaining is non-stationary plants on P 21:46:44 -!- Psyknux has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:46:53 those probably should go elsewhere 21:47:27 f, obviously 21:47:52 move ballistos to P? 21:48:01 hrm, and fungus? 21:48:29 would be nice to have P mean stationary 21:48:47 -!- rossi_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 21:48:57 only weirdness is that (f)ungus is on P 21:49:14 <|amethyst> and fedhas upgrades changing glyphs 21:49:41 hrm, but that's actually kind of good 21:49:48 <|amethyst> only one of them though 21:50:23 Basil: move stationary f to P? 21:50:32 Sure 21:50:51 Now you can see a wandering mushroom shuffling through fungus 21:51:07 and I guess 21:51:10 VS goes to f 21:51:22 I hope that upsets dck in some way 21:51:39 oh but he's a tiles player 21:51:51 !lg dck s=tiles 21:51:51 439 games for dck: 439x true 21:52:04 You'll have to convert him to console so he can be properly upset 21:52:26 I think he'd listen to you more on that! 21:53:55 I forgot 21:54:47 mm, at least I got to fool around with that html injection thing since he was tiles 21:55:22 <|amethyst> Basil: btw, you should register your nick 21:55:26 <|amethyst> Basil: your + is missing :) 21:56:32 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 21:56:49 I forget to identify to nickserv 21:57:26 <|amethyst> ah 21:59:07 oh, basil or someone is doing the plant thing 21:59:10 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:14 * Grunt hides. 21:59:18 aha! 21:59:22 Which plant thing? 21:59:33 and don't think I didn't notice you criticizing my hog color choice! 21:59:52 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:02 * gammafunk gestures. Grunt is turned into a hog! 22:00:48 that's not even the message 22:00:58 * Grunt evaporates and reforms as a hell hog! 22:01:28 <|amethyst> Grunt is blasted! You are showered in bacon! 22:01:32 Always knew you were a demon inside, Grunt 22:01:44 when did you last see a purple pig 22:01:57 It's as close to pink as we can get right now! <_<; 22:02:03 (clearly swap magenta and lightmagenta there) 22:02:10 purple cats??? 22:02:17 They're *magic*! 22:02:31 yeah purple cats I can see (somehow) 22:02:46 this is reminding me of that Disney rendition of Sword in the Stone 22:02:46 you can see purple cats? 22:02:56 what drug are you on!?! 22:03:27 Where the witch claims she wasn't cheating because she turned into a purple dragon (as opposed to an ordinary one) 22:03:31 or something like that 22:03:47 deathcap (13f) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 38-68 | AC/EV: 5/0 | Dam: 3313(confuse) | 07undead, evil, !sil | Res: 06magic(86), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 626 | Sp: drain life, melee | Sz: tiny | Int: plant. 22:03:47 %??deathcap 22:03:52 mad madame mim 22:03:53 didn't know they move 22:04:01 raskol: yeah :) 22:04:03 "you didn't say no PINK dragons" 22:04:45 hmm 22:04:50 -!- whig has joined ##crawl-dev 22:04:52 <|amethyst> So I forget, are disconnected levels of early D expected? 22:04:54 attackerpoly has 1/500 chance of happening 22:05:03 <|amethyst> they're quite rare but it does happen 22:05:04 1/500 chance too much 22:05:45 gammafunk: On that suggested glyph changes spreadshet: It might be good to make the "change to this background color" something more obviously differant like off-white. It's hard to tell the differance currently. 22:06:24 Tree appendage statue lich 22:06:28 <|amethyst> reaverb: it's black vs dark grey here 22:06:34 |amethyst: afaik they've always happened, but I don't know whether anyone ever tried to stop them from happening 22:06:36 appendage seems fine 22:07:07 Only appendage 22:07:08 ? 22:07:25 I wouldn't bother with only appendage even if I agree it wouldn't be problematic 22:07:34 <|amethyst> any thoughts on wyvern -> l ? 22:07:51 Ideally make it a flashy color 22:07:54 <|amethyst> for that matter, hydra -> some letter ? 22:07:59 seems fine, lindwurms are there 22:08:03 since wyverns are pretty bad for their location 22:08:10 |amethyst: wyvern -> l, komodo dragon -> D 22:08:14 <|amethyst> elliptic: :P 22:08:24 Komodo dragon armour when 22:08:26 <|amethyst> rename komodo dragon to "monitor" 22:08:26 (l is sort of crowded in lair) 22:08:29 Basil: didn't you want to remove komodos? 22:08:43 probably wyvern to l would be reasonable though 22:08:45 -!- andendau has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 22:08:53 I wanted to make sick actually matter 22:08:56 and not be annoying 22:09:14 But if nobody has ideas on that, then removal is always an acceptable alternative 22:09:34 -!- dck has quit [Client Quit] 22:10:59 <|amethyst> could split lizards and drakes 22:11:01 <|amethyst> now that j is free 22:11:11 reaverb: the problem is it's really hard to see the colors in the cell in many cases unless it's a dark background 22:11:59 (j)rakes 22:12:00 hrm, we have I, j, and k free 22:12:14 <|amethyst> I vs l 22:12:20 <|amethyst> drakes are lizards with serifs 22:12:24 dra(k)es 22:12:46 fun l thing is when a gecko shows up on the orb run and I think it's a hell sentinel 22:13:18 lIzards 22:13:20 gammafunk: Yeah, that's the problem with expressing densely packed information about a format to pack information densely. I think off-white could work to make the changes more obvious, but maybe console players eye's are better tuned to the subtilites of color. 22:13:51 Also, I wonder if there are any color blind console players somehow. 22:13:55 <|amethyst> reaverb: white on off-white or yellow-on-off-white would be quite hard to read 22:14:20 <|amethyst> reaverb: I hope they have a terminal where they can tune the colours 22:14:24 there are people who played nethack with colour = false 22:14:36 the color differences from e.g. light red to red are pretty subtle even on black background 22:14:39 not the same of course 22:14:41 |amethyst: Yes. 22:15:23 <|amethyst> (my wife is a protanomaly carrier; we don't plan on having children, but if we do half the boys will be colourblind) 22:16:09 hrm, so drakes to k then? 22:16:14 helps l a bit in lair 22:16:58 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 22:17:31 %git 22:17:32 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3281-g702e279: Don't let any uniques generate in both D and Vaults. 10(62 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=702e2796af64 22:17:39 yeah, we've actually made w a bit more problematic for lair as well 22:18:07 I think w is fine; it's not as though you see a significant number of worms in Lair except for that one ending. 22:18:35 Does worm end still have just a dragon and a banana? 22:19:47 the dragon has gold! 22:20:19 <|amethyst> hm 22:20:25 Grunt: well, on that note l is not really all that problematic either 22:20:28 <|amethyst> I guess lindwurm goes with the drakes 22:20:35 <|amethyst> since it has drake genus and a breath timer 22:20:38 |amethyst: MONS_DRAKE, MONS_LIN-- 22:20:38 Yes. 22:20:56 <|amethyst> wingless drake 22:20:59 gammafunk: there's more of a distinction between drakes and lizards than slugs and worms! 22:21:02 <_< 22:21:11 <|amethyst> man-drake 22:21:20 ok, well I can't bear to have my hogs repainted by grunt again 22:21:27 so I guess I'll move drakes to k 22:21:42 (including lindwurms) 22:21:56 gah 22:22:24 does this mean i can add the 4.1 drakes? 22:22:27 klindwurm 22:23:26 ok, I think that might be all we could reasonably do for glyphs 22:23:27 <|amethyst> the t glyph also makes me *frumple* but I can't think of what to do to it 22:23:45 well I'm going to send out another crd email 22:23:53 reptiles, and also crabs 22:24:06 yeah I also don't like crocs on t fwiw 22:24:08 <|amethyst> wheals: not only that, but very distantly related reptiles 22:24:12 well along with crabs at least 22:24:22 <|amethyst> wheals: crocodiles and turtles are about as far apart as you get 22:24:25 -!- Raycaster has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:32 <|amethyst> move crocodiles to 'b' :P 22:24:45 Move them to l! 22:24:47 They're reptilian! 22:24:48 <_< >_> 22:25:19 they could go to s, but that glyph is pretty full 22:25:20 Should standard "sensed monser" go to purple? Both it and "nasty sensed monster" are currently on red. 22:25:36 you can't ever see both 22:25:52 wheals: Huh, why is that? 22:25:53 ah, makes sense 22:26:00 <|amethyst> even at different radii? 22:26:07 ability is better at higher piety 22:26:12 %git 22:26:13 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-3281-g702e279: Don't let any uniques generate in both D and Vaults. 10(71 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=702e2796af64 22:26:13 lower piety means you can't distinguish? 22:26:19 wheals: Ahhh. "sensed monster" is if you aren't distinguishing between difficulty. 22:26:33 Basil: A watched repository never updates. 22:26:36 Crocodile/alligator to l could work, actually? <_< 22:26:47 yeah but then you have turtles + crabs 22:26:50 <|amethyst> well 22:26:55 <|amethyst> at least those have a thematic link 22:26:56 sensed monster is antennae, right? 22:26:56 <|amethyst> 'shells' 22:27:01 and l is worse, oh what am I saying he's not serious anyhow 22:27:18 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:27:29 <|amethyst> I think t is okay as it is... it's not a gameplay complaint, just a biology one 22:27:37 <|amethyst> and that's not the worst anyway :) 22:28:02 |amethyst looks at the spreadsheet. |amethyst sporulates! 22:28:15 <|amethyst> yeah, that one's worse 22:28:30 ...btw: 22:28:32 http://sprunge.us/BBQX 22:28:35 <|amethyst> f doesn't even have a single kingdom, much less phylum! 22:28:40 yeah we messed that up all kinds of ways, but it helps to have stationary/non-stationary 22:29:17 Grunt: (gammafunk) at least, I hope :) 22:29:32 There's some werid formatting issue by the ghost (genus) cell. I tried to fix it but I think I made it worse... 22:29:33 But thanks for making the patch 22:30:05 <|amethyst> FR: use â™  instead of P for stationary plants in the unicode charset 22:30:23 03Sage02 07* 0.14-a0-3282-g989c473: Remove self(poly|shaft) when using chaos weapons. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 35-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=989c473e22b9 22:30:25 <|amethyst> (not really) 22:30:29 Woo 22:30:56 So, clouds and noise doesn't seem that bad 22:32:36 wheals: On the sensed monster thing: It still might be a good idea because A) Even if it can't happen now maybe some time in the future you can see both sensed monster and nasty sensed monster B) It acts as a reminder to the player which mode they are in. 22:33:10 I don't really play console though, so I'm fine if there's some reason it should remain as is. 22:34:09 Grunt: also can remove the asterion ETC comment 22:35:33 -!- Pisano2 has quit [] 22:35:35 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:36:36 Grunt: just going to keep feeding you minor notes: describe P as stationary plants now in the comment 22:37:07 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:38:00 // immobile plants and fungi ('P') 22:38:04 Is that not sufficient? <_< 22:38:56 Grunt: player shadow still @ when player ghost is U? 22:39:01 doh 22:39:08 Well, the player shadow is basically a player clone! 22:39:13 Also we never see that glyph anyway. 22:39:16 yeah, more of a question 22:39:19 we don't? 22:39:24 isn't it for shadow form? 22:39:46 Shadow Form uses the normal shadow glyph, IIRC. 22:40:51 ok, and yeah didn't realize the current P comment was wrong (and not it's right!) 22:40:59 er s/not/now/ 22:41:22 oh, or maybe that part of the diff was elsewhere 22:42:00 gammafunk: What do you think about moving regular "sensed monster" to purple? 22:42:14 i'd rather move the other one 22:42:23 wheals: Nasty? 22:42:25 red is a simpler colour 22:46:09 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:47:59 -!- Zephryn has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:49:29 so. uh. 22:49:31 http://i.imgur.com/wzlMfHU.png is this a bug? 22:50:39 what am i looking at 22:50:44 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 22:50:52 ossuary entrance with no entrance 22:51:10 That seems pretty buggy, yeah. 22:51:15 I guess maybe there was an entrance from a lower level, in the black space next to the statue? 22:51:22 all the entrances from upper floors were accounted for 22:51:24 barring mimics 22:51:33 possible 22:51:37 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:38 possible, yes 22:51:47 didn't get a chance to find out for obvious reasons (not pictured: sigmund) 22:52:20 PleasingFungus: If you have to describe what's not pictured it isn't really an obvious reason. 22:52:31 well 22:52:35 the ogre is a pretty good reason 22:52:36 in itself 22:54:20 PleasingFungus: I think I see the issue; I'll get to it in a few moments. 22:54:51 (and really, it's something I should have seen coming during my vaults review) 22:55:14 ok. thanks! 22:55:15 :) 22:55:24 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 22:59:30 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: zeor, it miscallanier] 22:59:57 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 23:00:14 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00:18 -!- Escalator_ is now known as Escalator 23:01:25 DracoOmega: how polished is this deep dwarf poison formula? if you think it works well / is well balanced then I can try to estimate lethality with it, but otherwise I might try to come up with an easier formula to handle :P 23:01:39 DracoOmega: (I have lethality calculation basically working in all other cases) 23:02:20 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:21 Grunt: comment for 'h' should say hounds, hogs, bears, and cats or just canine-like things 23:02:22 elliptic: The numbers I picked for that are fairly arbitrary 23:02:47 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3283-gb891789: roctavian's mana viper and spellforged servitor (#8097). 10(5 minutes ago, 6 files, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b891789e888f 23:02:47 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3284-gd266e26: Adjust a couple of portal entry vaults (PleasingFungus). 10(5 minutes ago, 4 files, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d266e26fe317 23:02:47 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-3285-gaa66c1f: Add an entrance to a vault. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=aa66c1f32976 23:02:49 The idea is just that you get X for free, then the rest as if you were X less poisoned, which seemed kind of in the ballpark of the old system 23:03:10 But I am defintiely open to some alternative 23:03:12 gammafunk: Grunt: order carnivora 23:03:25 right... maybe I'll try to think of a more deterministic way of getting the same effect 23:04:07 Well, it IS deterministic, isn't it? 23:04:10 Whether it's good or not 23:04:31 well, it has a div_rand_round at the moment 23:04:44 and removing that is a bit tricky 23:04:57 Oh, it does? 23:05:05 I never realized how weird the w glyph is 23:05:06 (Man, how quickly does one forget the specifics of one's own code >.>) 23:05:14 and we've succeeded in making it weirder 23:05:16 w = weird 23:05:17 !send gammafunk TENTACLES 23:05:18 Sending TENTACLES to gammafunk. 23:05:49 * gammafunk reads a scroll. gammafunk is colored ETC_RANDOM. 23:05:59 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:47 !tell ontoclasm roctavian has a half-finished grand avatar on #8097 which apparently needs a spectral body to go with the material bits; I think you've done similar things before? 23:06:48 Grunt: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 23:06:49 Grunt: the 'z' comment is also wrong 23:06:58 gammafunk: doh 23:07:11 but otherwise it looks great! 23:07:26 I haven't checked the rc stuff carefully though 23:07:49 gammafunk: the 'h' unique part says "carnivorous quadrupeds", for the record. 23:07:59 ...this isn't 100% accurate for some of the bears, but perhaps it will work! 23:08:14 -!- WaveMotion has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:08:28 sounds good to me 23:08:29 bears are carnivorous! 23:08:33 ??pandamonium 23:08:33 pandamonium ~ pandemonium ~ pan[1/4]: An infinite dungeon branch, Pandemonium consists of an infinite number of dungeon-type levels. Pan levels are populated with demons instead of dungeon monsters. Pan entries have a 25% chance of generating on each of D:21-27, and one is guaranteed on D:24. 23:08:36 o 23:08:45 see, no pandas 23:08:46 wheals: yeah, they're just not obligate carnivores 23:09:24 |amethyst can make a series of commits in the style of the triple-sword / claymore change, perhaps 23:09:26 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:53 gammafunk: http://sprunge.us/WUQM - did I miss anything? 23:10:18 Grunt: besides crediting yours truly :) 23:11:00 It was a team effort! <_< 23:11:33 Clearly you can be the person to push this and subvert the attribution for the commit >_> 23:11:43 (not until after the 0.14 tournament of course!!!!) 23:11:47 well, fine, now you made me feel bad... 23:11:57 (You feel guilty.) 23:12:22 <|amethyst> btw, there are a few places in the code that refer to glyphs 23:12:35 ...right :( 23:13:24 Grunt: Is the sensed monster change on there? 23:13:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:14:02 get_mon_shape probably needs cleanup anyway >:( 23:14:16 todo: add mon_shape to mon-data entries 23:14:38 <|amethyst> mons_is_demon gets to be simplified :) 23:15:12 <|amethyst> though mons_demon_tier might need to be complexified 23:16:19 <|amethyst> the use of mons_base_char in monster::res_rotting can already be removed (they're all genus MONS_GHOUL) 23:16:26 -!- mamgar has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:44 Hm, we could probably do the shape into monsterentry thing fairly easily? 23:16:52 It would avoid problems like this in the future. 23:17:06 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:17:26 <|amethyst> I suppose you *could* do that, if you wanted to be *reasonable* :P 23:17:47 Heh: 23:17:47 else if (x_chance_in_y(level - 15, 6))         mg.cls = item ? MONS_RAVENOUS_ITEM_MIMIC : MONS_RAVENOUS_FEATURE_MIMIC; 23:18:00 Oh wait, those aren't the same MONS... 23:18:01 I'll look into that a little closer to when this patch will actually land <_< 23:18:08 I don't think mons_is_demon actually changes 23:18:17 since we didn't move rakshasa to ...wait 23:18:26 yeah no we didn't move it 23:18:51 <|amethyst> gammafunk: oh, I thought rakshasa -> & was in the spreadsheet 23:19:20 |amethyst: it was rejected by several :) 23:19:28 several people I should say 23:19:34 several @ if you will 23:20:01 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:33 -!- nrook has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:00 wow, is grunt going to move all those MON_SHAPE things to mon-data.h? 23:23:59 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 23:26:33 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:29:48 -!- Orshelack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:32:27 03|amethyst02 {wheals} 07* 0.14-a0-3286-gb40561d: Shopping: make uppercase add directly to shopping list. 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 31+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b40561d4011e 23:32:27 03ChrisOelmueller02 {wheals} 07* 0.14-a0-3287-ge5dcabe: Clean up shop interface 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 105+ 341-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5dcabecfce9 23:32:27 03ChrisOelmueller02 {wheals} 07* 0.14-a0-3288-g1c3b158: Shopping list: Display possible menu actions 10(6 days ago, 1 file, 17+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1c3b1589762f 23:32:27 03wheals02 07* 0.14-a0-3289-g9acb974: Changelog update. 10(25 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9acb974c36e1 23:35:45 I keep thinking "I should work on my frog-men" 23:35:46 but 23:35:48 my computer died 23:35:55 which makes that tricky 23:37:02 PleasingFungus: Are you using somebody elses or a public computer. 23:37:03 ? 23:37:07 work laptop 23:37:13 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:18 (((((((( 10 spectral Cat O' Nine Tails 23:37:32 Need to tweak the numbers a bit 23:37:40 cat5? :p 23:38:00 Basil: you must end up with 27 tails 23:38:00 Oh, I'm not sure they even do anything after the first 23:42:45 -!- wat1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:46:16 -!- mong has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:53 -!- Nethris has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:38 -!- Yermak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:19 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey]