00:00:11 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 00:00:59 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:01:48 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2746-g43b4f9c (34) 00:04:02 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:37 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:05 -!- Wahaha has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:08:25 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:09:59 -!- Wahaha has joined ##crawl-dev 00:11:27 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:13:04 -!- LordSloth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:24 ...okay, I'm pretty sure this branch has enough silly things in it by now. 00:14:27 http://sprunge.us/YhRA 00:15:03 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/Termigargoyle2.png are you happy with the wargoyles 00:15:04 (I have it called "nostalgia" locally, for the record. <_<) 00:15:30 Where's Tomb spell and Extension? 00:16:05 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2746-g43b4f9c (34) 00:16:06 !send Basil Air Walk 00:16:07 Sending Air Walk to Basil. 00:16:22 I'm trying to do thing that don't take *too* much effort to get back in <_< 00:16:56 Isn't most of the tomb spell code still there, effectively? 00:17:01 Since the card effect uses it 00:17:04 Eh. 00:17:13 I'm not suggesting you waste your time on it, mind! :P 00:17:19 Just an observation 00:17:34 If I wanted to bring back spells, the obvious place to start would be the ones missing from that one starter spellbook, and I don't really want to do that. :b 00:17:57 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/Hauberk.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/Hauberk2.png 00:17:58 (I enjoy it being a stub spellbook. Fun surprise for people that try starting up a game with it.) 00:18:10 I feel sorry for them :P 00:18:47 Grunt: i may have to do that tomorrow or so 00:18:53 Hmmm... if this really was the april fool's thing, it'll confuse Sequell forever, won't it? 00:19:09 I anticipate it being on an experimental branch so that that doesn't happen. 00:19:13 All those OMTh in 0.14 00:19:35 Ah, I suppose that makes sense 00:19:42 does this bring back hand crossbows? (i just closed my window) 00:19:59 Subject: [PATCH 4/5] Bring back hand crossbows. 00:20:09 what about elven darts 00:20:13 NOPE 00:20:14 and orcish poisoned needles 00:20:16 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 00:20:19 and bumblebees 00:20:58 (Maybe I'll push this to a branch at some point and let other people add things back in <_<) 00:21:01 Haha 00:21:11 hopefully soon elven or orcish anything will be nostalgia 00:21:19 (Well, it'll get branched at some point if it's going to be an experimental branch!) 00:21:55 simmarine: isn't hive enough for you? no need to be greedy and ask for bumblebees too! 00:22:07 Clearly not enough bees 00:22:09 does this bring back elf:7 00:22:13 and grey elf walls 00:22:26 elf:7 yes 00:22:26 Subject: [PATCH 3/5] Restore old branch lengths. 00:22:32 So where are the dorgies 00:22:34 fr elf:38 00:22:35 probably not the good walls though :( 00:23:26 ...what's wrong with ETC_ELVEN_BRICK <_< >_> <_< >_> 00:23:49 so this would be a good time to lobby for vaults placing in Ш, !Ш:$ instead of Ш:1-4 and friends? 00:24:08 not only for the affected branches but generally (maybe except for uniques but possibly even there in some cases) 00:25:39 I feel as though your argument is confused by the use of Cyrillic :P 00:26:59 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:27 well i did convert all of this once and then not submit it 00:28:55 Are there any cases left of the latter specifically intended to avoid branch ends? 00:29:01 I know I was cleaning up a lot of this when working on Depths. 00:29:50 many, yes 00:30:07 especially around the S branches and zot it seems 00:30:29 there's also a few for crypt and V 00:30:40 and some for dis 00:34:04 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2746-g43b4f9c 00:37:07 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 00:40:05 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 00:41:39 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:42:27 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:44:48 any comments on either of these tiles 00:47:01 -!- ithompson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:57 * Grunt goes through and cleans up some vault placements and branch entry depths in the branch <_< 00:51:04 Bloaxor: if you're talking about the golden armour then its really good but the white pixels near wrists are distracting 00:52:23 -!- Keanan1 has joined ##crawl-dev 00:53:00 actually it's not white but bright yellow 00:53:36 it's already fixed 00:55:15 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 00:58:39 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:00:25 War gargoyle + (Doll) Hauberk tiles by Bloax 01:00:25 War gargoyle + (Doll) Hauberk tiles by Bloax 01:06:20 also there's a stray blank in the lair part of `variable/mini_monsters.des:DEPTH: D:6-12, Lair: 3-6,` that i notice only now 01:06:24 so if you happen to edit stuff 01:08:04 -!- Bloaxor is now known as Bloax|Zzz 01:08:23 -!- soundlust has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:02 -!- BobBarker has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:40 -!- dwarj has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:13:55 -!- dtsundere has joined ##crawl-dev 01:14:10 -!- dtsund has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:14:27 -!- dtsundere is now known as dtsund 01:18:51 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:42 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:50 !wtf pa 01:28:50 Paladin* 01:31:00 ??thief 01:31:00 thief[1/2]: An assassin who accidentally left his blowgun at home, but at least was smart enough to bring a hand crossbow.(except not anymore because hand crossbows were removed!) 01:31:04 ??thief [2] 01:31:04 thief[2/2]: Except not anymore because thieves were removed! 01:31:18 ??hand crossbow 01:31:19 hand crossbow[1/1]: In ancient times, a weapon that could fire darts. 01:31:30 ??glamour 01:31:31 glamour[1/1]: An ability grey elves received in old versions of crawl at xl 5. It tried to confuse, paralyze, charm, or scare nearby humanoids. It sucked. 01:43:14 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:12 -!- MistGuided has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:44 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:50 -!- Krakhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:03 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:09 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:56:02 TSO volcano layout by KennySheep 01:56:02 TSO volcano layout by KennySheep 01:56:56 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2747-ge969822: Only clear seed when creating a new game_options. 10(27 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e969822de71f 01:57:33 TSO volcano, huh 01:58:01 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 01:58:03 The cleansing power of fire 02:01:03 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2747-ge969822: Only clear seed when creating a new game_options. 10(32 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e969822de71f 02:03:40 const int MAX_MONS_HD = 27; 02:03:45 And yet orbs of fire are 30 02:04:08 (This only appears to relate to monster levelup code, though) 02:06:21 !send DracoOmega the Lernaean hydra 02:06:21 Sending the Lernaean hydra to DracoOmega. 02:06:38 Oh, I suppose that is too 02:08:29 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: hurrrk] 02:11:54 The Unspeakable (16J) | Spd: 15 | HD: 100 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Dam: 22 | amphibious, evil, regen, !sil, 07vault | Res: 06magic(400), 03poison, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, airstrike (0-210), smiting (7-17), 04esc:death's door | Sz: small | Int: plant. 02:11:54 %??the unspeakable 02:11:57 bitch please 02:12:43 silver stars are also HD 30 02:12:58 I didn't say the ONLY thing with 30 were orbs of fire 02:13:02 Just that they were 02:17:16 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2747-ge969822 (34) 02:26:17 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:26:41 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:26:44 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 02:27:18 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:04 -!- jeffro_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:46:00 -!- Keanan1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:02 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:06 -!- Hailley has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:57:53 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 03:06:32 -!- bmfx_ is now known as bmfx 03:08:47 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 03:10:40 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:59 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:12:56 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:12:57 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:17:18 -!- Ipsum has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:34 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:09 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:24:07 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:24:14 -!- jeffro_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:27:03 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:31:23 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:36:52 -!- Adumbration has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:41:58 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:51:30 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:56:52 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:05 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:57 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:33 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:09 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 04:12:53 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:17:40 -!- SakuyaIz1yoi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:29:25 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:10 at last! I think I solved the infamous salamander simulacrum on lava exploit 04:33:18 err I mean bug 04:36:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:25 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:26 -!- pantaril_ is now known as pantaril 04:48:57 03Brandon Kime02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.14-a0-2748-g957e161: Added M_WARM_BLOOD flag to ravens 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=957e16101b58 04:48:57 03Brandon Kime02 {MarvinPA} 07* 0.14-a0-2748-g957e161: Added M_WARM_BLOOD flag to ravens 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=957e16101b58 04:50:30 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:55:31 but now I'm wondering: should any fiery zombie be able to survive in lava? 04:57:53 or just simulacra? 04:58:03 fiery simulacra 04:58:31 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:59:25 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:04:56 IMHO lava snake/worm simulacra are inconsistent, like why would you create icy zombies of fiery monsters 05:05:20 plus they aren't amphibious 05:07:04 so, it should be something like amphibious fiery simulacra monsters (i.e salamanders simulacra) shouldn't walk through lava 05:07:09 am I correct? 05:09:23 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 05:11:38 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:12:53 ok, so even salamander undead monsters (zombie and skeleton) are amphibious 05:17:19 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:18:00 I can make it so salamander zombies can't survive in lava 05:18:08 would it be fine? 05:21:03 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:22:35 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:29 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:57 -!- BanquosGhost has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:52:29 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:52:59 that sounds fine yeah 05:59:48 MarvinPA: don't recall if I've asked you -- how do you feel about dropping Dj and LO? 06:00:06 fine by me 06:00:57 seems to already be consensus that they won't be in 0.14 stable at least, i don't see a problem with disabling them in trunk too if nobody is interested in reworking them 06:01:40 In general I don't have a problem with a lava race, but I don't think LO works 06:03:01 Keying the abilities off of tension or something else? 06:03:42 tension would be fine if it hadn't been designed with Xom in mind 06:03:55 For real god powers, we'd need to completely rewrite it 06:04:26 What would a system written with LO in mind have 06:05:21 I think if anyone had a good idea, it would have been written 06:05:59 I don't think that's fair to say. I think it's that no one has really sat down to try and improve tension. I don't actually think it's as far off as a lot of people say it is from being reasonable. Not to say that closing that last gap wouldn't take a lot of effort. 06:06:20 There are some obvious issues with it considering invisible enemies to not be there, even when they're killing you 06:06:53 DracoOmega: If you have any ideas about how to rework it, go for it. You have a knack for design 06:07:07 It's somewhat complicated to track whether an invisible enemy is known to the player in a meaningful way, though 06:07:16 Since you obviously can't raise tension just for one being there, or even being there and awake 06:07:22 If you don't know of its presence 06:07:58 (People keep saying that the only place tension currently works is Xom, but there's at least one exception to that which no one seems to think about :P) 06:08:09 If it hits you add X to a tension buffer 06:08:11 Count damage from unknown sources as though it was higher? 06:08:19 Warden door sealing uses tension calculations 06:08:26 that becomes 'real tension' over time 06:08:28 To determine what doors to seal and also what direction to shove things out of doorways 06:08:36 And that seems to work pretty well 06:09:02 oh. Everyone else forgets about it 'cause you wrote it :) 06:09:11 I was unaware. That's pretty nifty 06:09:14 Well, my guess is that it just seems to work properly and no one thinks about it 06:10:09 I have never actually played lava orc and I was never really fond of their orcishness in the first place, but some other parts of the race design seem interesting 06:10:32 I personally favored reflavoring them as salamanders, the last time I actually thought about this (a while ago now) 06:10:50 And before these other salamander monsters actually existed, too >.> 06:10:52 It would work thematically, now that we have a bigger stable of fire dudes 06:11:08 DracoOmega: what about Dj? 06:11:25 A second slow race that was mechanically distinct from naga in multiple other ways could maybe be interesting. Maybe. 06:11:31 I can't say I pondered it that long 06:11:41 Heat aura is a bit different if you can't kite 06:11:52 But maybe could lose the tension connection in the process? 06:12:01 Regarding djinn, I think I'm more or less with everyone else on this 06:12:10 mm 06:12:15 Yeah. I dropped the speed change specifically for the kiting issue 06:12:22 (And I'm not saying 'don't remove lava orcs' either. Just that they're definitely much LESS problematic) 06:12:23 Well, you could ditch the radiant damage and keep retaliation burns 06:12:36 That intrudes a little on the Minotaur shtick? 06:12:49 I sort of prefer the damage aura to that, if I had to pick one 06:12:59 I don't think it really steps on minotaurs, but I think it's maybe a bit more interesting 06:13:12 Well, there's not much mechanical difference with the right numbers 06:13:23 hydras don't get burnt lots anymore, right? 06:13:44 Well, I never tested lava orcs, but spines and such only trigger once per round 06:13:50 So... probably? 06:13:57 Well, I suppose spellcasters would take more damage from radiance than retaliation 06:14:00 Never can quite tell though :P 06:14:02 oh speaking of vault wardens, i noticed them shutting themselves out and leaving my sealed in an empty room a couple of times in my last game 06:14:06 leaving me* 06:14:13 Huh, really? 06:14:17 That's strange 06:14:25 that said, I wonder if that could also be replaced with a more interesting mechanic than plain damage 06:14:30 And you say more than once? 06:14:32 or if there's enough mechanics already 06:15:15 i don't really recall but at least once, probably should have mantised it at the time! i sort of thought it was already there but it seems not to be 06:15:44 the thing about LO is that I'm not actually sure what changing their nature based on tension is supposed to achieve 06:16:23 oh i guess it is actually: https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8085 06:16:24 MarvinPA: Yeah, I don't recall knowing of this problem 06:16:25 i.e. even with better tension I'm not sure this is a great mechanic 06:16:54 MarvinPA: Oh, that looks recent, too? 06:16:55 it's hard to say for sure though without someone actually coding better tension somehow 06:17:02 yeah, fairly 06:17:05 So maybe this is a new bug 06:17:13 (Did anyone tinker with tension code lately? :P) 06:18:06 elliptic: Yeah, I've wondered similar, if some of things things would be better just being at reasonable levels for 'always on' 06:18:12 But again, I haven't actually played one 06:19:05 We have a race that can't use potions. Why not just make LO into a race that can't use scrolls? :) 06:19:25 It'll give us some impetus for moving strategic scrolls to an indestructible item class 06:19:26 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:19:30 well, might as well start from scratch then 06:19:32 Fo 06:19:36 if it isn't going to have the temperature mechanic 06:19:44 ^ I don't disagree 06:19:46 Yeah 06:19:49 Neither do I, really 06:19:54 then again, it can't use the fun potion or scrolls 06:20:35 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:50 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:58 Speaking of formicids, I've seen more than a few suggestions that they ought to lose the rPois- (and maybe gain some hp?) 06:22:26 They are ALSO something I haven't yet played (so busy with other things), but I find myself liking several parts of their concept a fair bit 06:24:21 removing the rPois- or giving them a little more HP are reasonable options, yes... replacing stasis with -Tele is the other main thing that has been discussed I think 06:24:27 And while I can't give nearly as 'legit' feedback without this, it sort of seems that a race with serious penalties to its escape tools ought to probably not be more fragile than normal on top of it? 06:24:46 Well, I know the shield + 2hander does eventually help with this a fair bit 06:24:55 But that's 'eventually', I assume 06:24:56 not really, you don't have much incentive to use a shield 06:25:07 because you are normal size for shield purposes and GSC means no shield 06:25:16 !apt fo shield 06:25:17 Fo (SK_SHIELDS)=0 06:25:19 Oh, somehow I thought they got the large race shield benefits 06:25:21 and that's not amazing 06:25:31 no, because they aren't large (because they are weird) 06:26:00 !lm * orb !won cv>=0.14 s=race 06:26:01 No milestones for * (orb !won cv>=0.14). 06:26:04 Huh. I sort of feel that if they are able to wield gsc then probably they can get the shield penalty reduction that is supposed to come from large awkward things being more manageable? 06:26:09 !lm * orb !won cv>=0.14-a s=race 06:26:10 55 milestones for * (orb !won cv>=0.14-a): 6x Minotaur, 6x Lava Orc, 5x Spriggan, 5x Kobold, 3x Ogre, 3x Deep Elf, 2x Hill Orc, 2x Gargoyle, 2x Pale Draconian, 2x Naga, 2x Vampire, 2x Human, 2x Djinni, 2x Formicid, 2x Deep Dwarf, 2x Mummy, Felid, Grey Draconian, Troll, Red Draconian, Black Draconian, Vine Stalker, Merfolk 06:26:16 great mace + shield might be better than gsc for a formicid of trog 06:26:22 but you'd still start with gsc 06:26:34 (and fo of trog isn't particularly good) 06:26:57 even with funtastic artefact GSCs? 06:27:00 Do you think the large-size shield penalty reduction would help with that much? 06:27:23 not really 06:27:43 since for the part of the game you care about you're mostly comparing gmace + 0 skill shield vs gsc + no shield 06:27:43 -!- Yuof has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:27:52 Fair enough 06:27:55 No contest there 06:28:11 it's mostly just that gsc is way better for the xp you put in, and then later on you'd rather spend the xp on not-shields in almost all cases 06:28:15 it would help a bit, and/or their shield apt could be increased to +2 or something... but if we actually want them to use shields a lot then they probably shouldn't get GSC as an option yeah 06:28:48 Hmmm... I wonder if the two-hander plus shield business might just be more interesting without the gsc option altogether, yeah. Since it is a more unique thing that they can do 06:28:52 I don't know 06:28:59 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:19 xbow + shield is probably cool right now 06:29:27 I wouldn't mind removing that thing altogether honestly, I'm not sure that they need any gimmicks other than -Tele/stasis + self-shafting 06:30:15 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2749-g55854e8: Don't allow permaflying races to teleport to the outside of wizlab_cloud 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=55854e8e9cd8 06:30:15 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2749-g55854e8: Don't allow permaflying races to teleport to the outside of wizlab_cloud 10(32 seconds ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=55854e8e9cd8 06:30:23 but there are certainly several different directions we could take Fo 06:30:50 i think removing the -rpois and giving them more hp/less xp apt would be a good thing to start with 06:31:06 That seems like something generally agreed to anyway, regardless of what else is done 06:31:41 Can we rework Wucad Mu's monastery? I really like the idea, but it's spoily 06:32:01 Spoily how? 06:32:23 A spoiled player might look at it and say "Oh, I don't have disint. Bye" 06:32:47 well, pretty much all vaults are spoily by nature in that sense 06:32:55 How exactly is knowing the threat in a vault and then avoiding is unusually spoiley? 06:33:11 what bothers me more in this case is that if you know where to go and walk directly to the statue and disint it, then you might never see any monks 06:33:14 well it's a bit more binary in difficulty than most vaults 06:33:20 is it still possible to walk to the statue and out without fighting any monsters 06:33:25 it's a pretty bad offender in that the loot is very good and the threat is very low, yes 06:33:26 crate: Well, that is a potential issue, but not with spoilers 06:33:46 there's also the issue that people don't know that the statue is an OCS 06:33:59 and thus don't know they can disint it 06:34:00 elliptic: I wonder if tiles make that easier? Since it really LOOKS like one 06:34:06 It's basically a fatter OCS 06:34:22 So I pretty much assumed that from the moment I first encountered it 06:34:58 Statue of Wucad Mu (048) | Spd: 6 (07stationary) | HD: 20 | HP: 300 | AC/EV: 20/1 | 11non-living, 07vault | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 300 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 06:34:58 %??statue of wucad mu 06:35:14 it is a pretty lame wizlab so it should be removed or redesigned I think 06:35:22 Yeah, it's generally pretty crazy to fight it without disint, even moreso than a normal OCS 06:35:23 I think maybe just replacing the statue with some other sort of boss (or bosses) to fight instead would help 06:35:30 Yeah, most likely 06:37:27 how about Wucad Mu in the flesh? 06:37:41 by the way, does anyone here have any guesses about why seeded games might be desyncing for me? I've been experimenting with -seed and qw and it mostly works as expected but not always 06:37:57 Seeded games? 06:38:12 those with a fixed random seed 06:38:20 I didn't even think that was possible with Crawl 06:38:28 Doesn't it use the same number generator everywhere? 06:38:29 submitted my first patch \o/ 06:38:29 it's mostly for debug purposes 06:38:31 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:38:34 ./crawl -seed N starts with seed N, yeah 06:38:37 jmbto: mantis? 06:38:41 yeah 06:39:38 I don't recall noticing any seperation of rng states that would decouple things like level gen from combat stuff, but maybe I haven't been looking in the right places? 06:39:39 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 06:40:09 anyway if I let qw play with a fixed seed, what seems to happen is that the first 20-30k turns will always be the same, but there will be some specific point at which it will all diverge 06:40:59 huh. 06:41:13 DracoOmega: the only decoupling that is supposed to happen is some UI stuff from non-UI stuff 06:41:46 it's a shame you can't easily run two copies of the game in parallel and watch the RNG 06:41:51 Oh, but I guess qw is driven by the same rng and so should always cause the same sequence of combat actions each time? 06:42:00 Or is it totally deterministic? 06:42:06 DracoOmega: right, and it mostly works like a charm 06:42:16 qw does call the crawl rng sometimes 06:42:30 -!- bh has quit [Quit: out] 06:42:37 I guess maybe SOME UI thing is not properly decoupled then, maybe? 06:43:13 Oh, that's that random3 business, isn't it? 06:44:05 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44:10 I'm not even sure UI stuff should be an issue, since I'm always running it with the same termsize and it should still have the same inputs from qw 06:44:24 I think maybe random3 was renamed to ui_random? 06:44:59 Yeah, looks like 06:45:07 Which is a lot more intuitive, really :P 06:45:37 Does Crawl run multiple threads for anything other than database loading? 06:46:28 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:50:10 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:50:24 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:52:27 Would it be bad to reduce holy flame duration from at least ophanim? 06:52:43 Seems that it lasts way too long whenever I go to holy pan 06:54:16 Yes, the duration does seem crazy long 06:54:36 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:54:39 halve or third it? 06:54:52 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:55:14 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56:39 I haven't looked at numbers, but even a third seems like it wouldn't be that short 06:57:02 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:57:52 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 06:58:39 -!- lukano has quit [Client Quit] 07:03:35 hmm, three tests of ophan blessed flame and they all timed out at 73 turns 07:05:11 24 turns sounds not too bad 07:06:57 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:11:29 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:12:04 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 07:21:46 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:50 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:23:10 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:25:51 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:20 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:27:54 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:31:26 -!- Adumbration has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:36:03 Reduce Ophan holy flame duration by 2/3 by Sage 07:36:20 Reduce Ophan holy flame duration by 2/3 by Sage 07:42:13 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:47 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:16 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 07:44:02 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:44:02 -!- CampinSam has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45:18 -!- SakuyaIzayoi has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:45:57 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:15 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:55:29 -!- kr4n3 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:55:51 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:08 -!- dwarj has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:40 -!- Tuxedo[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:09:53 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:13:56 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:06 -!- crate_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:19:10 -!- F-Glex has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:46 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 08:50:46 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 08:50:46 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! 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[Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:15 -!- Kintak has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:15 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:09:23 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:09:29 -!- TZer0 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:10:41 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 12:11:27 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:45 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:13:45 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:24 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 12:14:57 -!- Ruble has joined ##crawl-dev 12:15:22 -!- ToastyP_ is now known as ToastyP 12:16:31 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 12:22:58 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 12:24:04 Pressing Escape key when Stacking Five cards freezes webtiles by Sandman25 12:24:42 -!- Fuzzwah has quit [*.net *.split] 12:24:42 -!- tensorpudding has quit [*.net *.split] 12:24:42 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [*.net *.split] 12:24:42 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 12:24:42 -!- eith has quit [*.net *.split] 12:24:42 -!- 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file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=99a27f6e4b4e 13:15:08 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2751-ga4e4f02: Fix WebTiles hang with Stack Five menu. (#6594) 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a4e4f02dfbdc 13:16:03 -!- joey___ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:18:33 -!- jason56 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:05 http://sprunge.us/aRTB 13:20:07 Thoughts? 13:21:09 (this might tie in to item price discussion) 13:21:35 Yeah, gadget shops are weird, especially given the prices. 13:22:09 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 13:24:04 Probably a good change though. Rods can actually be expensive too, and still make sense. 13:24:24 Unlike evokers most of the time, since you'll find those sooner or later anyway. 13:28:47 gadget shops should really carry less items than other shops 13:28:55 there's no reason to offer the player 20 evocables in 1 shop 13:30:27 That's true. 13:30:39 Maybe they could also rarely have staffs. 13:30:58 alternatively combine wand and gadget shops 13:31:27 don't see why those two should not be combined, yea 13:31:32 That might be better. 13:32:05 are the prices going to be fixed too 13:32:10 -!- Bloax|Zzz is now known as Bloax 13:33:41 1000 seems like an ok price for elemental evokers but 1500 is not 13:33:53 It's a good bikeshed subject, so maybe it'll take a while. 13:33:56 1000 is still a fuckton 13:34:13 They could be a lot cheaper, if they were a lot rarer. 13:34:27 You'd be able to buy about four by the end of vaults. 13:34:31 if you buy nothing else 13:35:05 they're certainly good but they aren't that good 13:36:12 -!- nrook has joined ##crawl-dev 13:36:22 well books can cost that much too 13:37:00 spells don't timeout after a single use 13:37:00 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:22 ... 13:37:50 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 13:37:55 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:38:19 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:27 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:44:50 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:47:30 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:16 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:49:44 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:33 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:33 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:23 -!- roctavian has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:40 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:55 -!- julian____ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- Chousuke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:53:55 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:54:30 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 13:55:13 -!- Gretell has joined ##crawl-dev 13:56:46 -!- ldf has joined ##crawl-dev 14:00:32 -!- jmbto has joined ##crawl-dev 14:10:06 -!- y2s82 has quit [*.net *.split] 14:10:06 -!- ekix has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:30 -!- ketsa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:20 -!- Danei has quit [Quit: Those who tell the truth shall die, those who tell the truth shall live forever.] 14:16:02 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:16:18 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:21 anyone here? 14:17:25 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:17:33 -!- Fuzzwah_ is now known as Fuzzwah 14:18:50 -!- Fhqwhgads__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:23:41 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 14:24:13 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 14:25:26 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:38 -!- Fhqwhgads__ is now known as Fhqwhgads_ 14:26:14 -!- RBrandon has quit [Client Quit] 14:27:30 !tell Grunt why `const unsigned int which_penance = random2(10);` in religion.cc? seems overly complicated 14:27:30 buppy: OK, I'll let grunt know. 14:29:17 -!- RBrandon has quit [Client Quit] 14:32:31 -!- julian____ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32:33 <|amethyst> buppy: which part? 14:32:51 <|amethyst> buppy: it's unsigned so that the comparison on the next line doesn't give a warning 14:33:28 <|amethyst> buppy: and const because we prefer to make simple variables const when they can be (it can improve optimisation, and makes some kind of bugs easier to spot) 14:33:50 |amethyst: I just thought the whole while loop thing was strange 14:34:45 <|amethyst> I guess that's because we don't know until calling divine_retribution whether we need to do anything and retry 14:34:49 <|amethyst> but now that you mention it 14:34:54 <|amethyst> since angry_gods is already shuffled 14:35:01 -!- tensorpudding has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:02 -!- Gretell has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:05 -!- schistosomatic has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:05 -!- varmin has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:05 -!- HellTiger has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:06 -!- Fortescue has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:06 -!- hhkb has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:06 -!- Lprsti99 has quit [*.net *.split] 14:35:34 <|amethyst> it seems like we could just go through in order until we find one 14:35:53 -!- Keanan has quit [] 14:35:53 <|amethyst> s/need to do anything and retry/did anything or need to retry/ 14:36:02 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 14:36:57 |amethyst: this is what I thought made sense: http://pastebin.com/NbQRdB1H 14:37:26 forgot a paren on the if >_> 14:39:11 <|amethyst> buppy: I think your version has a lower chance of nothing happening than the current version 14:40:33 |amethyst: why? 14:40:48 I'm pretty bad at probability though 14:40:52 <|amethyst> buppy: suppose there are 5 angry gods but only one of them does wrath through divine_retribution 14:41:12 <|amethyst> buppy: (e.g. four of them are Ash, TSO, Ely, and Zin, and you don't worship an evil god) 14:41:58 <|amethyst> then with the current code you have a 1/2 chance of breaking immediately, a 4/10 * 1/2 chance of breaking on the second iteration, 16/100 * 1/2 of breaking on the third, etc 14:42:21 <|amethyst> not sure if that *should* happen, mind you 14:42:46 <|amethyst> seems like the current system would allow wrath dilution 14:42:48 -!- ackack has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- pantaril has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Krakhan has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Eronarn has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Celsitudo has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Staplefun has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- ivan`` has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- _miek has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Wah has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- galehar_ has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Chousuke_ has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- Henzell has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:48 -!- 16WAAS188 has quit [*.net *.split] 14:43:13 iteration? there are no random checks in the loop part 14:43:42 oh wait, you said current code 14:44:02 <|amethyst> yeah, it has a new chance to break out of the loop with each iteration 14:44:31 oh I see 14:45:40 this then? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=fd0Wjqat 14:46:37 <|amethyst> Grunt: re what buppy said, in particular it seems that being under inactive good god penance would reduce your total chance for an effect from handle_god_time 14:46:41 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:47:23 <|amethyst> hm 14:49:09 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:04 hm, apparently the RNG desyncing that I was observing is happening somewhere in new level creation 14:50:17 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:58 i.e. sometimes the new level created is not determined by the previous state of the game along with the RNG state 14:51:07 not sure how to track it down further though 14:52:32 Apparently IE puts all intranet sites to some compatibility mode by default... 14:52:46 And then disabled said mode when you enable developer console to debug why nothing works 14:53:52 -!- gammafunk is now known as 7JTAAACOZ 14:53:55 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:55 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:55 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:55 -!- galehar_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:55 -!- Chousuke_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:55 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 14:54:16 -!- Surr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:55:19 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:26 -!- CampinSam has quit [*.net *.split] 14:55:26 -!- lukano has quit [*.net *.split] 14:56:40 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:41 -!- julian____ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:06 hm, I don't understand the current handle_god_time code either 15:00:44 like, the chance of it hitting a given god who is angry at you is supposed to just be 1/10, right? 15:01:17 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:48 I guess the problem is that 10 < NUM_GODS, so we can't use the same system as we used to 15:02:43 -!- Kasofa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:49 which means that we have to choose some different behavior in the case where > 10 gods are all angry 15:04:01 is it possible to change something elsewhere so that this is 1/20 instead? 15:04:37 I guess just halve the timer length? 15:04:41 er 15:04:43 no 15:05:02 double ATTR_GOD_WRATH_COUNT I guess 15:11:37 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2752-g8fe52eb: Set text box caret to the end if there is a prefilled value. 10(66 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8fe52eb506c4 15:11:37 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2753-g2130869: Make client.html pass W3C HTML validator. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 34+ 34-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=213086979ed8 15:16:54 buppy, |amethyst: I think we can just do http://bpaste.net/raw/181787/ without fear as long as it is impossible to have 21 gods angry at you at once 15:16:57 -!- CampinSam has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Surr has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- st_ has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Krakhan has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Eronarn has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- odiv has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Celsitudo has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Staplefun has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- _miek has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Wah has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- galehar_ has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Chousuke_ has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- Henzell has quit [*.net *.split] 15:16:58 -!- 16WAAS188 has quit [*.net *.split] 15:17:14 -!- Pharaoh has joined ##crawl-dev 15:20:41 |amethyst: re good gods, divine_retribution returns false if the penance is inactive, so if you have another god angry at you it would (in principle) turn up with another iteration of the tries loop. 15:20:42 Grunt: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 15:21:15 (You *could* get the same good god over and over again and eventually time out, so the chance of getting wrath in that case is probably insigificantly less.) 15:21:23 Anyway, the which_penance thing is a vestige of the old system. 15:21:23 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 15:21:31 Grunt: what about the thing I pasted? 15:23:05 I think the idea behind the way this is set up right now is that assuming you hit that 1/10 (or 1/20) chance you should have *something* happen rather than have random2() give you a god who's not actively being angry at you. 15:23:20 Grunt: huh? 15:23:58 Grunt: with what I pasted, you always have a 1/20 chance of getting a trog wrath effect if trog is angry with you, independently of what any of the other gods think 15:24:12 No you don't. 15:24:28 why not? 15:24:43 Say you have Ash, Nemelex (<= 100), good god penance, and Trog wrath (and aren't worshipping an evil god or something else to trigger good god wrath). 15:25:02 N/20 * 1/N = 1/20 15:25:12 is all that my code is using 15:25:12 ... 15:25:33 Really, a better way to do this would be to have some kind of active_penance() function anyway to avoid weird probability quirks. 15:25:43 (so that angry_gods only has gods likely to give penance at you) 15:25:46 s/penance/wrath/ 15:25:46 but there aren't any weird probability quirks with what I posted 15:26:16 ...maybe I should just go stare off into space for a bit so I can come back and analyse things properly :b 15:26:18 it is just 1/20 chance of trog, 1/20 chance of ash, etc, and (20 - N)/20 chance of nothing 15:26:57 (having an active_penance() function might be a good idea anyway though) 15:27:38 (to handle the case where > 20 gods exist better) 15:28:07 -!- TARBALLPYTHON has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:13 -!- schistosoma has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:27 we could also just go about things like this (functionally identical to what I pasted above): http://bpaste.net/raw/181791/ 15:36:40 i.e. pick the god first, then check whether the player has penance 15:41:06 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:27 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:51 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 15:56:43 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:05:52 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 16:05:52 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 16:13:12 -!- 7JTAAACOZ has left ##crawl-dev 16:16:29 -!- Fortescue has quit [*.net *.split] 16:16:29 -!- hhkb has quit [*.net *.split] 16:16:29 -!- Lprsti99 has quit [*.net *.split] 16:20:26 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 16:20:44 -!- roctavian has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:22:01 -!- Krakhan|2 is now known as Krakhan 16:22:02 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:23:46 <|amethyst> Grunt: what I was saying is that you have a second chance to fail the (n-1)/10 chance if that happens (if you repeat the loop because of a good god) 16:24:33 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:24:35 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 16:25:16 <|amethyst> Grunt: err, (10 - n)/10 I mean 16:26:28 ...clearly we need active_penance() <_< 16:26:53 -!- nerdpolice has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:28:01 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:45 <|amethyst> IIRC, currently with one angry god who's not a good god: 1/10 chance of wrath. two angry gods, neither good: 1/5. two angry gods, one good and inactive: 1/10 + 1/100 + ... = 1/9 16:28:58 <|amethyst> s/R/read/ 16:29:10 <|amethyst> not sure what numbers would be desirable 16:29:40 |amethyst: the chance that a given god has wrath should be independent of whether any other gods are angry 16:30:13 <|amethyst> elliptic: your code doesn't do that either, does it? 16:30:19 |amethyst: yes it does... 16:30:28 <|amethyst> elliptic: I mean, this thing picks one god doesn't it? 16:30:33 <|amethyst> oh, I see 16:30:34 |amethyst: the chance that a given god has wrath is always 1/20 with my code 16:30:37 regardless of anything 16:30:37 -!- TARBALLPYTHON has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:42 <|amethyst> you moved divine_retribution to the top loop 16:30:57 <|amethyst> so you can get multiple retributions at once 16:31:31 no 16:31:36 there is no loop in my code 16:31:45 no multiple retributions 16:31:54 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:18 <|amethyst> Yeah, apparently I suck at reading diffs :) 16:34:06 these diffs are confusing to read; probably I should have pasted the block of code instead of the diff 16:35:50 Anyway, I'd probably go with the earlier of your two blocks of code and some version of active_penance() 16:36:01 (mainly because there are several places that check the Nemelex penance thing and that bothers me) 16:38:40 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:41:03 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 16:41:04 -!- julian____ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:51:46 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 16:53:12 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:41 -!- julian____ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:34 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 16:58:09 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:00:45 -!- utrick has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:03:42 -!- clouded_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:16 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:14:52 -!- raskol` is now known as raskol 17:21:15 -!- Leissi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:52 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:24:05 Maybe remove Nemelex <_< >_> 17:24:23 * Grunt removes gammafunk. 17:24:35 * gammafunk evaporates and reforms as a kilobyte! 17:24:40 but how will crawl ever be the same without yugioh 17:25:24 Well dpeg did propose removing nem, which tbh I support, but was there strong opinions against? 17:25:32 s/was/were/ 17:28:10 -!- Escalator_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:03 -!- tabstorm has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:32:19 -!- rast has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:28 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:40 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:37 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:37 -!- Chousuke has joined ##crawl-dev 17:37:37 -!- galehar has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:06 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:41:00 ??gong 17:41:00 shield of the gong[1/3]: I'm pretty sure the only abuse caused by shield of the gong is applied directly to the character using it 17:41:29 ??Gong 17:41:29 shield of the gong[1/3]: Players who have won at least one combo that makes a word online in 80x24 console using vikeys or arrows+numrow or an external numpad. 17:41:39 something is not right here 17:41:52 ??gong 17:41:52 shield of the gong[1/3]: < mikee_> for some reason when i'm drunk i hit the wrong keys instead of the keys i want 17:42:01 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 17:42:03 -!- DracoOmega_ is now known as DracoOmega 17:42:10 sequell what's happening to you 17:42:23 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 17:42:31 the netsplits earlier today deranged it 17:42:54 only greensnark knows how. (maybe!) 17:46:38 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:46 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 17:46:46 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 17:48:08 <|amethyst> probably to do with the new asynchronous query support 17:48:17 <|amethyst> turned into desynchronous :) 17:49:42 very asynchronous... 17:52:32 It's kind of... sunc. 17:52:59 <|amethyst> anyway, !learn q works fine 17:54:06 Hmmm... that a new warning 'enumeral mismatch in conditional expression'. The somewhat vexing thing is that it's not actually a mistake and is intentional. 17:54:06 Because somehow two different types of enum are valid parameters to this function in Crawl :P 17:54:06 ??q 17:54:06 I don't have a page labeled q in my learndb. Did you mean: !, #, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, d, o, qw, s, t. 17:54:07 Is there some valid way to hush that up so that it doesn't look like a mistake to someone else reading? 17:54:40 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: cast to int? 17:56:00 Yeah, I guess that works 17:56:27 Looks sort of weird, but what can you do? 17:56:37 (It was selecting between a mon_summon_type and a spell_type for a summon source) 17:56:55 (there must be a reskill joke in here somewhere) 17:58:29 -!- Fortescue has quit [*.net *.split] 17:58:29 -!- hhkb has quit [*.net *.split] 17:58:29 -!- Lprsti99 has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:51 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:06:53 okay so I guess lua is responsible for desyncing of seeded games :/ 18:07:06 I probably should have expected that 18:07:12 ugh 18:07:14 ri 18:07:15 p 18:08:59 <|amethyst> elliptic: is something using lua's rng? 18:09:39 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:55 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:07 |amethyst: I don't think so, but table iteration apparently isn't usually guaranteed to be deterministic and I think that is what is happening 18:12:56 specifically I traced the desync to omnigrid layouts, and there is some table stuff there that looks likely to be problematic 18:13:30 I guess refactoring it to be deterministic might work, but there is probably other stuff too 18:13:55 <|amethyst> elliptic: I see it uses util.random_weighted_keys and some others 18:14:17 <|amethyst> elliptic: or are there other problems too? 18:14:29 -!- Sequell has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:31 -!- Ataraxzy has joined ##crawl-dev 18:14:47 <|amethyst> elliptic: oh, wait, those are ours 18:15:31 util.random_weighted_keys seemed likely to be an issue there, yeah 18:15:36 ours? 18:15:49 <|amethyst> elliptic: defined in dat/dlua/util.lua 18:15:54 right 18:16:03 <|amethyst> elliptic: when I saw "util" at first I thought it was lua standard library stuff 18:16:27 but it still uses pairs() to iterate through a hashed table 18:16:31 <|amethyst> (I can read and write lua, but I don't really know it) 18:16:31 <|amethyst> aha 18:16:48 and calls the rng on each entry, so order matters 18:17:11 I wasn't able to determine if that is exactly where the desync happens but it seemed to be close 18:18:17 <|amethyst> elliptic: where? I only see one use of pairs as opposed to ipairs and that just counts 18:18:31 I mean that util.random_weighted_keys() uses pairs() 18:18:35 <|amethyst> oh 18:18:56 -!- simmarine has quit [*.net *.split] 18:18:56 -!- ackack has quit [*.net *.split] 18:18:56 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 18:18:56 -!- DracoOmega has quit [*.net *.split] 18:18:56 -!- Chousuke has quit [*.net *.split] 18:18:56 -!- galehar has quit [*.net *.split] 18:19:01 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:12 -!- DracoOmega_ is now known as DracoOmega 18:20:29 <|amethyst> sounds like it's random_weighted_keys that should be fixed? 18:20:49 <|amethyst> not sure how though 18:20:58 well, I don't think it can be fixed, but I don't understand this stuff very well 18:21:38 I was thinking just change the table returned by omnigrid.groups() to have integer keys somehow 18:24:42 -!- crate has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:02 -!- adolchristin has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 18:27:38 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 18:27:53 I guess maybe I will try disabling omnigrid and see if I still get desyncs 18:28:28 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:33:58 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:38 -!- F-Glex is now known as G-Flex 18:34:41 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34:49 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 18:35:36 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:41:40 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:45:52 -!- SeianVerian has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:46:16 -!- sk3 is now known as ktgrey 18:49:51 so i was looking at the code and it looks like the probability to do an offhand punch is needlessly overcomplicated and spread across at least three different functions 18:49:56 (although I could have misread something) 18:50:29 I can believe 'needlessly overcomplicated and spread across many different places' in a heartbeat 18:50:33 I don't even need to look 18:50:36 how does dgamelaunch handle the magic to allow watching other console games? 18:50:51 there's one function that checks if the aux attack is a punch and just nullifies it on a coinflip 18:50:56 does it use the ttyrecs? or is it more like a screen -x thing? 18:51:12 there's another that decides whether or not you should do one to begin with based probabilistically on your UC skill and armour/shield penalties 18:51:16 (yes, it checks shield penalties!) 18:51:31 and I think there was another check somewhere 18:51:34 for those three-handed player races 18:51:50 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:51 <|amethyst> johnstein: it uses the ttyrecs 18:51:52 (People keep saying that the only place tension currently works is Xom, but there's at least one exception to that which no one seems to think about :P) 18:51:53 the reason I was looking at this is because someone mentioned that UC gives you a UC/20 chance of an offhand punch, but in practice it seems very much lower 18:52:01 i hear singing sword works well too! 18:52:13 <|amethyst> johnstein: the current ttyrecs go into the inprogress directories instead of the ttyrecs directories 18:52:28 <|amethyst> johnstein: and move when the player ends (saves, etc) 18:53:03 G-Flex: By checking shield penalties, doesn't a shield just plain prevent the offhand punch altogether? 18:53:23 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:24 I don't think so, but I can check if someone can link to the source 18:53:27 since the bot is down 18:53:31 just came back 18:53:37 oh, look at that 18:53:37 !lg * 18:53:38 2969163. Jarmo the Sneak (L5 HaAs), blasted by an orc wizard (magic dart) on D:3 on 2014-02-23 00:52:29, with 280 points after 3561 turns and 0:34:52. 18:53:41 ??source 18:53:41 source[1/3]: Browse the Git repository at http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git or, if you must, http://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl 18:53:42 ??gong 18:53:42 shield of the gong[1/3]: +27 shield {rElec rN+ MR EV-5} This shield will surely be heard! Was +6 without the EV-5 in 0.13-. 18:53:44 ??gong 18:53:44 shield of the gong[1/3]: +27 shield {rElec rN+ MR EV-5} This shield will surely be heard! Was +6 without the EV-5 in 0.13-. 18:55:01 here we go 18:55:01 -!- jeffro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:08 bool player::fights_well_unarmed() 18:55:12 return burden_state == BS_UNENCUMBERED 18:55:12 7029 && x_chance_in_y(skill(SK_UNARMED_COMBAT, 10), 200) 18:55:12 7030 && x_chance_in_y(2, 1 + heavy_armour_penalty); 18:55:25 wait, where did I see shield penalties 18:55:34 no matter 18:55:48 I'm not really sure what skill() does or what the argument to it means, but there's that 18:56:08 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:18 <|amethyst> that's unarmed * 10 18:56:28 what's the point of the multiplication 18:56:33 better rounding 18:56:35 is it some int rounding issue 18:56:35 oh 18:56:37 <|amethyst> it's a scale parameter so everything still uses ints even though skill is fractional 18:56:41 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:48 so yeah, /that/ part is UC/20 18:56:58 aside from the armour penalty bit 18:57:05 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:57:18 then in melee_attack.cc there's unarmed_attack_type melee_attack::player_aux_choose_uc_attack() 18:57:21 which has this: unarmed_attack_type uc_attack = coinflip() ? UNAT_PUNCH : UNAT_NO_ATTACK; 18:57:32 which is another 50% chance to just not do one at all 18:57:59 then in bool melee_attack::_extra_aux_attack(), there's this: 18:58:00 case UNAT_PUNCH: 18:58:00 5582 return is_uc && !one_chance_in(3); 18:58:15 thanks |amethyst. so if I get dgamelaunch to serve up console DF games, I won't be able to have people watch them since DF binary isn't compiled to output ttyrecs 18:59:31 so there are at least three checks it has to pass, that I know about, and it all seems pretty redundant 18:59:44 <|amethyst> it doesn't have to pass all, though 18:59:50 it doesn't? 18:59:57 are you sure about that 19:00:37 <|amethyst> hm 19:01:06 <|amethyst> oh, is_uc does depend on fights_well_unarmed passing 19:01:07 johnstein, from my fuzzy memories of working with dgl for other games, the binary itself doesn't have to support ttyrec output so long as you have some other means of doing so (e.g. wrap the call in a tty recorder). 19:01:09 johnstein: dgamelaunch creates the ttyrec, not Crawl itself, so if you get DF on the tty, that will create a ttyrec fine 19:01:25 |amethyst: in player_aux_unarmed(): 19:01:25 * greensnark looks askance at Grunt's ninja tactics. 19:01:26 1495 if (attacker->fights_well_unarmed(attacker_armour_tohit_penalty 19:01:26 1496 + attacker_shield_tohit_penalty)) 19:01:26 1497 { 19:01:26 1498 uc_attack = player_aux_choose_uc_attack(); 19:01:26 1499 } 19:01:30 * Grunt disappears! 19:01:32 <|amethyst> G-Flex: yeah 19:01:50 and that's where the shield penalty comes into play, incidentally 19:01:56 <|amethyst> G-Flex: I was missing that uc_attack had to be set before is_uc would be true 19:02:12 the checks aren't really redundant though 19:02:17 in that they are all checking different things 19:03:05 two of them are completely random 19:03:16 one is just a coinflip and another is a one-in-three 19:03:28 it isn't "just a coinflip", look at the rest of the function 19:03:49 <|amethyst> for humans without mutations or transformations, it's a coinflip 19:03:53 yeah 19:03:57 yeah 19:04:11 <|amethyst> for octopodes, it's 75% instead 19:04:17 !bug 8189 19:04:17 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=8189 19:04:22 octopodes are the only other case 19:04:33 For this bug, is it acceptable if friendly allies can always see the player? 19:04:55 <|amethyst> G-Flex: also, the other is 2/3 19:04:55 For resolution of this bug, I should say 19:04:57 oh, the shield penalty apparently does matter for octopodes 19:05:00 |amethyst: yeah 19:05:17 but yeah, that coinflip /is/ just a coinflip for non-octopodes 19:05:24 "for non-octopodes" 19:05:25 when an aux punch is possible 19:05:30 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:48 elliptic: ? 19:06:04 well the point is that you can't just collapse this into the 2/3 thing and change the 2/3 to 1/3 19:06:07 because of octopodes 19:06:47 anyway certainly the code could be cleaned up, I'm just saying the the checks aren't actually redundant 19:06:50 yeah, but I feel like it could still be done better somehow 19:06:55 <|amethyst> so total of UC/60 to get an aux punch, UC/40 for octopodes 19:07:22 the actual original reason I was looking at this is because the learndb said that having claws would give you an offhand punch 19:07:24 which is clearly wrong 19:07:42 |amethyst: well, you have to consider armour/shield penalties as well 19:07:42 yeah, it just increases the damage of the offhand punch 19:07:45 so in practice it's a bit less 19:08:00 <|amethyst> right, plus the stat checks 19:08:05 not sure how much less since I don't know what the armour number used is equivalent to 19:08:09 where are the stat checks? I forgot about those 19:08:47 <|amethyst> in _extra_aux_attack 19:08:47 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:09:09 if (you.strength() + you.dex() <= random2(50)) 19:09:09 return false; 19:09:10 ah 19:09:13 <|amethyst> probably that part of that learndb entry dated from before aux reform 19:09:39 <|amethyst> (which I believe was mostly carried out by elliptic) 19:09:41 could the stat check and two-in-three check just be rolled into one thing 19:09:45 or are there complications I don't know about 19:09:54 yeah, a lot of the silliness like uc_attack and is_us is a relic of the old code 19:10:07 <|amethyst> G-Flex: that the 2/3 check is a different number for different auxes 19:10:07 oh, some auxes don't have the two-in-three 19:10:07 No strong opinions on allowing allies to always see the player (so they don't wander away)? If so I'll just make a quick patch for that change 19:10:07 yeah 19:10:17 I see that now 19:10:24 *is_uc 19:10:31 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I see no problem with it, no 19:10:40 random2(50) gives 0 to 49 as a result, right? 19:10:49 the player can always see allies, right? 19:10:53 <|amethyst> gammafunk: seems consistent, too, since the player can see invis allies 19:11:05 in particular, most of the is_uc checks in extra_aux_attack can't actually happen 19:11:28 do you mean _extra_aux_attack 19:11:30 thanks for the info grunt and gammafunk. good to know if I get dgamelaunch to launch the game that the watch stuff should be capable of working 19:11:32 yes 19:11:34 or is there an actual non-underscore version 19:11:35 okay 19:11:41 johnstein: I think you meant to thank greensnark :) 19:11:45 right, thanks 19:11:56 * gammafunk thanks Grunt 19:12:02 elliptic: yeah, since the mutations /are/ necessary for most of those 19:12:03 * Grunt doesn't thank gammafunk. 19:12:06 <|amethyst> !learn thank g* 19:12:06 I don't know about !learn thank. 19:12:17 <|amethyst> doh 19:12:31 <|amethyst> !thearn glank 19:12:33 what would make sense, I guess, is to move all of the extra UNAT_PUNCH checks into a single function that is called by _extra_aux_attack 19:12:36 yes. thanks greensnark. hi gammafunk, how's it going? 19:12:55 !tell johnstein It's going great, thanks :) 19:12:55 gammafunk: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 19:13:02 :) 19:13:03 johnstein: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 19:13:29 !tell johnstein Have some more messages. 19:13:29 Grunt: OK, I'll let johnstein know. 19:14:54 anyway, my only remain comment about the punch stuff is that regular offhand punches seem surprisingly rare 19:14:58 !seen mumra 19:14:58 Sorry elliptic, I haven't seen mumra. 19:15:07 rip 19:15:11 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:16:44 G-Flex: well, they do a decent amount of damage and UC is already very strong... I agree that they are rare at low skill, but I wouldn't want to give UC a direct buff by increasing that frequency with no compensation 19:17:01 -!- nrook has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:17:05 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:09 elliptic: that's fair, although I was thinking less of a "UC buff" and more of there already being more than enough incentive to use a buckler regardless 19:17:37 I guess one option is to make the frequency not depend on UC skill, but make you not get any punches unless you are actually unarmed 19:18:12 G-Flex: well, I think buckler is pretty terrible on UC chars currently... 19:18:21 hrm 19:18:30 maybe it is, although they do come with brands sometimes 19:18:36 I haven't done a decent UC character in a while 19:18:43 G-Flex: it isn't just losing the offhand punch, you also have 0.5 aut slower UC attacks (regardless of shield skill) 19:18:51 oh right 19:19:31 I do feel dissatisfied about how unarmed punches feel currently, though they do deal a lot of damage with blade hands at least 19:19:51 so it seems like what I'm saying probably mostly applies to like 19:20:02 characters who aren't actually using UC 19:20:23 well, characters who aren't using UC are not meant to use offhand punch 19:20:27 yes, but they can 19:20:34 (also octopodes, but yeah) 19:21:02 this subject initially came up because I got claws on a DsAK and someone suggested using a qblade of distortion with no buckler for lots of offhand claw attacks 19:21:06 which turned out to not be a great idea 19:21:23 in general training UC when you are going to use a weapon is not a great idea, yes 19:21:58 yeah, at the time I thought that claws would give the attack or that the UC/20 thing were the case 19:22:05 either of which would have made it a decent idea 19:22:48 anyway I sort of like the thing I suggested earlier (make the frequency not depend on UC skill, but make you not get any punches unless you are actually unarmed) 19:23:03 this would be a buff to low-level UC and a nerf to high-level UC, which seems reasonable 19:23:09 -!- Pharaoh has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:27 The main effect of offhand punches for weapons seems to be making my fsim data accidentally misleading at times that I forget I have UC on that wizmode character from earlier 19:23:32 haha 19:23:36 heh 19:23:38 -!- scrubnub has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:23:42 <|amethyst> elliptic: doesn't that make claws completely useless if you use a weapon? 19:23:54 |amethyst: it already is 19:23:55 <|amethyst> elliptic: compared to the other aux mutations 19:23:57 <|amethyst> hm 19:24:10 (unless you train UC for it, which is a very bad idea) 19:24:13 yes claws does have that problem 19:24:16 elliptic: I would like possible offhand punches with one-handed weapons but if that's not feasible in a way that makes sense then what you're suggesting seems okay 19:24:26 (although some chars don't need an early-game UC boost, like trolls :P) 19:24:28 (buff to one-handed weapons!!!) 19:24:38 another option is to make offhand punches not have anything to do with UC skill for damage purposes 19:24:42 Well, if you're using a one-handed weapon, a shield seems a lot more desireable than the offhand punch basically always 19:25:23 elliptic: that seems counterintuitive 19:25:28 just make everyone with 1-hander + no shield get some offhand punches, with damage comparable to other auxes 19:26:13 -!- Utis` has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:42 G-Flex: perhaps, yes... arguably UC skill not helping with headbutts from horns and such is also counterintuitive though, but it does lead to better gameplay 19:27:08 not quite as counterintuitive since the regular punch and the offhand punch are both punches 19:27:09 but yeah, stuff like that does exist 19:27:33 then there are the people who want shield bashes :P 19:27:39 -!- KurzedMetal1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:25 FR: two-handed shields 19:30:41 <|amethyst> two-handed punch combos. Every fourth attack is an uppercut 19:30:41 <|amethyst> s/attack/attack on the same target/ 19:30:41 incidentally, disabling all layouts that use omnigrid does seem to fix the desyncing 19:30:41 -!- Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:30:45 or at least I haven't seen it again yet, and it was showing up in lair nearly every game previously 19:31:04 -!- wat1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:29 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:35:58 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 19:35:58 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 19:37:01 -!- Watball has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:39:22 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:30 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:30 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 19:39:30 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:40:49 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:42:35 elliptic, |amethyst: as soon as I make sure it compiles and works properly, I'm going to get you to look over this adjusted handle_god_time code (a version that involves active_penance but is otherwise basically elliptic's first redone version). 19:44:15 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:51:59 elliptic, |amethyst: http://sprunge.us/CdVe 19:52:16 oops 19:52:17 That's the wrong version. 19:52:36 http://sprunge.us/VJJK (spot the difference) 19:53:03 diff the diff 19:53:34 buppy: shh :b 19:53:56 -!- Vaporware has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:56 -!- Vaporware has quit [Changing host] 19:53:56 -!- Vaporware has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:18 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:55:18 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:55:27 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:53 <|amethyst> Grunt: and you should never be in penance to an unavailable god, right? 19:56:58 <|amethyst> jiyva sticks around until penance is over? 19:56:59 |amethyst: oops, I knew I missed something. 19:57:16 You are correct, but I feel as though that case should be handled anyway? 19:57:17 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:57:18 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 19:57:26 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:00:00 http://sprunge.us/UXSe (see active_penance) 20:00:33 <|amethyst> Grunt: also, doesn't god_hates_your_god mean this will prevent your own god from getting retribution when you are in penance? 20:00:33 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:34 <|amethyst> (for non-good gods) 20:00:34 ...oh, yes. 20:00:40 -!- HDA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:00:54 all this is doing is proving the correctness of athiesm 20:00:58 <|amethyst> (but good gods won't, and will return false from divine_retribution) 20:01:38 atheism even 20:01:43 So, er, 20:01:44 http://sprunge.us/IMQS 20:01:50 -!- Cryp71c has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:07 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:29 <|amethyst> Grunt: dec_penance for good gods 20:02:48 ...what about it? 20:02:52 <|amethyst> Grunt: I don't think those two (dec penance and do retribution) can use exactly the same check 20:03:57 <|amethyst> Grunt: doesn't it prevent good god penance from timing out 20:03:57 -!- Watball_ is now known as Watball 20:03:57 <|amethyst> since they won't actually wrath you 20:03:58 <|amethyst> so active_penance is false 20:03:58 <|amethyst> I think there are two separate things here 20:03:58 <|amethyst> active penance and retributive penance 20:04:06 <|amethyst> for dec_penance we want the former, for this part of handle_god_time we want both 20:05:11 hm 20:05:24 <|amethyst> at least, I assume they're supposed to work that way... I haven't had penance all that much in games 20:05:25 * Grunt goes to look at the old code. 20:05:37 I don't think it's ever worked that way, off the top of my head. 20:07:23 Here's handle_god_time before the XP change: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/religion.cc;h=1d450969f3d4a0186c5c8702960f9229a4de574a;hb=b5a132a#l4051 20:07:24 <|amethyst> oh, never mind me then 20:07:46 <|amethyst> hm 20:08:52 ...and divine_retribution, which I don't think I've touched since: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/godwrath.cc;h=cb635c81905d0e83c64b1adbe3d00bac12fa2641;hb=b5a132a#l1238 20:08:52 Tracing the logic, penance doesn't get decremented if the god isn't actively throwing wrath at you. 20:09:22 -!- NotKintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:31 <|amethyst> Grunt: in dec_penance I mean 20:10:39 |amethyst: that check is one I added; it's exclusively for the purpose of determing if we still need to maintain the XP timeout. 20:11:12 ...which is immediately set again if you anger one of the relevant gods. 20:11:26 -!- Sandman25 has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:26 <|amethyst> ah 20:12:34 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 20:12:40 <|amethyst> So it's just that, with the change, a good god you worship won't sustain the wrath/xp counter on its own 20:12:45 <|amethyst> which makes sense 20:14:00 Correct, but if the wrath turns active, the XP counter starts up again immediately. 20:14:00 cf. the changes to god_pitch 20:14:02 <|amethyst> sometimes I think commits need to use -U100 :) 20:15:52 -!- roxton has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:15:52 <|amethyst> and then I deal with merge conflicts 20:19:25 Anyway, this seems to be solid. 20:20:54 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:20:54 -!- AlphaQ_ is now known as AlphaQ 20:21:11 So. 20:21:27 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2754-gad24b6b: Rework handle_god_time wrath handling (|amethyst, elliptic). 10(43 minutes ago, 3 files, 26+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad24b6b08877 20:22:02 ...back to working on the other thing I was working on :) 20:22:27 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:52 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2755-gb37b61c: Cache prepare_flags results to improve performance. 10(29 minutes ago, 2 files, 16+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b37b61ccac0d 20:28:46 -!- Bomanz has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:28:51 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:14 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:59 http://sprunge.us/eAJj 20:40:35 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:37 |amethyst: Very simple fix for 0008189 uploaded to mantis. 20:41:20 -!- neongrey has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:41:26 -!- neonbutts is now known as neongrey 20:41:51 Grunt: that doesn't look like glaciate! 20:42:04 rods being findable outside labs? blasphemy! 20:43:54 -!- Vaporware has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:55 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:45:09 && env.shop[i].type == NUM_SHOPS) will break if another shop type gets added 20:45:27 I suppose that's unlikely though 20:45:36 mercenary shops!!! 20:45:45 %git mercenary-shops 20:45:45 Could not find commit mercenary-shops (git returned 128) 20:45:49 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:50 fr animated rods 20:45:59 %git merc-shops 20:46:12 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-2536-g3a2db19: Mercenary shops. 10(13 days ago, 11 files, 202+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3a2db191056e 20:46:20 oh well then maybe that should be fixed 20:46:27 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 20:47:37 but why would it break? 20:48:57 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 20:49:17 it wouldn't break it would just turn old save misc shops into mercenary shops 20:49:28 probably I don't know 20:51:02 i don't think so, since NUM_SHOPS isn't kept in the save file 21:02:20 -!- Cheibriados has joined ##crawl-dev 21:02:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl-dev is: Crawl Development | Logs: http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ | People with +v have commit access. | Please keep general Crawl-related chit-chat to ##crawl. | Dev wiki: http://crawl.develz.org/wiki | Long stuff to pastebin.ca please | Immortal Warwalrus and Crazy Yiuf forever. 21:02:20 -!- The topic of ##crawl is: Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 21:06:18 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:07:35 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:07:40 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:46 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:28:04 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:28:23 -!- Sokar_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:29:19 Nice format string I've ended up writing here. Highly descriptive. 21:29:20 "%s %s %s %s!" 21:29:27 ... 21:29:43 I think the ! at the end really sells it :P 21:31:36 Plog plogs the Plog!!! 21:31:47 s/the/Plog's/ 21:31:56 Hahaha 21:32:00 fr: use Plog as a placeholder in more places 21:32:05 (rip Plog the tutorial panlord) 21:32:57 replace "it" (or now "something") with plog 21:33:13 <3 21:33:14 Plog fall off the wall. 21:33:23 A nearby Plog withers and dies. 21:33:36 wheals is cast into the Abyss! (Plog) 21:33:43 Plog was stabbed in a vulnerable spot! 21:33:48 You hear an ominous-sounding plog. 21:33:50 The tutorial panlord is gone? 21:34:07 Hasn't been around in ages. 21:34:13 We found the commit where he was removed the other day. 21:34:15 Well, I haven't done the tutorial in ages either :P 21:34:20 Grunt the Dwarven Barricade (L27 HDFi of Nemelex Xobeh), mangled by a Shadow Fiend (summoned by Plog) on D:19 on 2011-06-21 22:11:49, with 936131 points after 196801 turns and 21:11:36. 21:34:30 I didn't do the tutorial until long after I'd fought actual pan lords, though 21:34:35 %git 536ad4b 21:34:36 07jpeg02 * 0.8.0-a0-4990-g536ad4b: Remove the old tutorial map. 10(3 years, 1 month ago, 6 files, 24+ 562-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=536ad4b0897d 21:34:45 Wow, all the way back in 0.8 21:35:38 -!- icantfindaname has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:40:48 -!- Watball has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:43:04 I managed to make it past that Pan lord once 21:43:20 he somehow didn't cast fire storm 21:43:55 http://bpaste.net/raw/181850/ <- seems to fix determinacy issues, can anyone who knows a bit about lua confirm that this change looks safe? 21:44:02 elliptic: looking 21:44:59 elliptic: seems reasonable. 21:45:52 -!- julian____ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:46:02 I guess the function is only called by omnigrid anyway 21:47:24 -!- UnknownUser_ has quit [] 21:48:40 !tell |amethyst what's up with sizzell 21:48:40 wheals: OK, I'll let |amethyst know. 21:54:49 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:14 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:21 -!- Ququman has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:00 -!- Sizzell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:02:23 -!- Lasty has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:22 -!- reaverb has joined ##crawl-dev 22:10:33 -!- somethingaa has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:04 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:18:39 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-2756-gf09ee85: Fix some lua being non-deterministic. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f09ee85bc0c3 22:18:40 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:49 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:23:31 -!- rast has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:36 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:42:21 -!- mong has quit [Excess Flood] 22:47:07 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:39 -!- Guest60409 has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 22:48:47 -!- Quashie has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:58 -!- neongrey has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:00 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:00:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:02:52 -!- reaverb1 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:07 -!- gammafun2 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:04:08 -!- AreBrandon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:05:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:05:58 so does anyone have any comments on 8152? this is my scroll of vulnerability rename/weighting adjustment 23:06:39 -!- gammafun2 has quit [*.net *.split] 23:07:04 -!- reaverb1 has quit [*.net *.split] 23:07:17 -!- randomizr has quit [*.net *.split] 23:07:26 -!- CKyle has quit [*.net *.split] 23:07:46 -!- Quashie_ has quit [*.net *.split] 23:08:00 -!- Kaput has quit [*.net *.split] 23:08:13 -!- neonbutts has quit [*.net *.split] 23:08:20 -!- rast has quit [*.net *.split] 23:08:36 -!- Sizzell has quit [*.net *.split] 23:09:07 -!- dck has quit [*.net *.split] 23:09:19 -!- minmay has quit [*.net *.split] 23:09:25 -!- AlphaQ has quit [*.net *.split] 23:09:41 -!- roxton has quit [*.net *.split] 23:09:44 -!- nonethousand has quit [*.net *.split] 23:10:10 -!- wheals has quit [*.net *.split] 23:10:49 -!- TZer0 has quit [*.net *.split] 23:10:57 -!- Adder_ has quit [*.net *.split] 23:11:26 -!- tupper has quit [*.net *.split] 23:11:28 -!- Stathol has quit [*.net *.split] 23:12:01 -!- iasov has quit [*.net *.split] 23:12:08 -!- 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Check out new European server at ??clan! | Play Crawl online now: type ??cao, ??cdo, ??cszo, ??clan, or ??webtiles for instructions | http://crawl.develz.org | FooTV: termcast.develz.org | ##crawl-offtopic: You got your gender in my peanut butter! Xom thinks this is hilarious. 23:26:42 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- hhkb has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Bodrick has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Cryp71c has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Sequell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- crate has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Ataraxzy has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Eronarn has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- greensnark has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ToBeFree has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- varmin has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- jmbto has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- johlstei has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Ruble has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Rotatell has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- rlund__ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Elsi has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Zannick has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Xiberia has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Sombrero_Mott has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- G-Flex has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- jarpiain has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- broquaint has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Medar has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- BlastHardcheese has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- |amethyst has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- flowsnake has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- johnstein has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ldierk has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- morik has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- kilobyte has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- geekosaur has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Wensley has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Grunt has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- ChrisOelmueller has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Keskitalo has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- Napkin has joined ##crawl-dev 23:26:42 -!- wh1te has joined ##crawl-dev 23:27:25 -!- Kaput is now known as Guest37093 23:30:05 -!- iasov has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:14 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:32:18 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40:17 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-2757-gf9284b9: Give lua the information of which squares are forbidden because of mesm/fear. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f9284b99d6b4 23:42:35 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2756-gf09ee85 (34) 23:51:05 -!- Nstar has quit [Client Quit] 23:51:41 woo! figured out the watching issue 23:51:50 ? 23:51:52 you gotta spell 'dgamelaunch' with an 'n' 23:51:56 dev.berotato.org 23:52:01 ssh to that using the same cbro keys 23:52:05 you can play DF and watch people play ! 23:52:08 ??cbro 23:52:08 cbro[1/3]: Server in Georgia, US: crawl.beRotato.org -- ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys (no password access). In case of DNS problems, use crawl.boylecraft.net. Webtiles at: http://crawl.beRotato.org 23:52:11 cool 23:52:24 ive been really lazy about downloading and playing df again 23:52:43 might have to monkey with your ssh client to ensure it's using UTF-8 and a font that fully supports DF text mode 23:53:28 -!- reaverb has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:54:17 actually it won't work for anyone else till I update the launcher to create the DF directory 23:54:24 it's hardcoded now for my test user 23:54:44 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:55:24 * Grunt tunes in. 23:56:23 -!- Nstar has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:44 I don't know much about ssh, but is the private key supposed to be available on that website? 23:57:18 s??cbro[key] 23:57:18 cbro[1/3]: Server in Georgia, US: crawl.beRotato.org -- ssh port 22, username crawler, keys at http://crawl.beRotato.org/crawl/keys (no password access). In case of DNS problems, use crawl.boylecraft.net. Webtiles at: http://crawl.beRotato.org 23:57:27 err 23:57:28 yea 23:57:30 should be 23:57:50 if you log in as dbrotest, password test, you can play around 23:58:06 rip 23:58:06 rip 23:59:58 ?