00:00:05 probably not for now 00:01:27 They don't natively spawn alongside plants anymore, and the plants around them are now higher-tier threats than they used to be (thorn hunters in particular). I still sort of like it conceptually, but for how ocassionally it is liable to be of relevance, I wouldn't be overly attached to it, I guess 00:06:05 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-2566-g810d2b3 (34) 00:06:16 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2566-g810d2b3 (34) 00:06:42 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 00:08:48 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 00:09:21 -!- Mattias has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:09:42 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:51 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:14:34 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:19:47 -!- crate has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:05 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:23:50 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:54 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:30 -!- mikee_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:42:11 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:04:43 -!- Zelik1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:05:13 -!- DracoOmega_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:05:19 -!- rchandra has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:06:11 -!- DracoOmega has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:06:24 -!- rchandra has joined ##crawl-dev 01:08:58 -!- Thurston has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:57 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:20:37 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:49 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:36:06 -!- DracoOmega_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:38:23 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:41:26 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 01:46:54 -!- crate has joined ##crawl-dev 01:46:57 -!- hyperbowl has joined ##crawl-dev 01:47:09 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:49:18 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:52:09 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:18 Yermak (L15 FeHe) (Elf:3) 01:52:43 !crash Yermak 01:52:50 !crashlog Yermak 01:52:51 3. Yermak, XL15 FeHe, T:39438 (milestone): http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Yermak/crash-Yermak-20140211-075216.txt 01:53:25 I just found a mimic disguised as a staircase to the enchanted forest on Vaults:2 01:53:41 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:47 I'm playing the current trunk on CAO, is that a bug? 01:55:42 how long ago did you start the game? 01:55:48 this morning 01:56:11 only upgrade in the log is Upgraded the game from 0.14-a0-2516-g151ae2e to 0.14-a0-2544-ge03b0eb 01:57:35 hm. dunno 01:57:51 I'm definitely not an expert in these things yet 01:58:41 that's ok, thanks 02:06:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:08:57 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 02:12:30 -!- mongor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:14:15 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:16:14 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:23 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:37 -!- mongor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:17:19 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2566-g810d2b3 (34) 02:18:10 -!- mong has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:46 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: laughing at farts] 02:21:35 -!- mongor has quit [Quit: mongor] 02:22:23 -!- Fortescue|Home has joined ##crawl-dev 02:24:14 -!- Fortescue has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26:16 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 02:27:18 -!- sd1989 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:30:50 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 02:31:19 -!- mongor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:33:19 -!- mongor has quit [Client Quit] 02:43:11 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:50:44 -!- scummos__ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:54:13 -!- buki has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:24 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:11:08 -!- minmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:12 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:19:34 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:21:45 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:24:19 -!- HellTiger has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:27 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:47 -!- DrKe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:39:18 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:42:43 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:02 -!- Whistling_Bread has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:04 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:50:04 -!- tksquared has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:50:19 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:52:45 -!- Whistling_Beard has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:11 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:02:18 -!- conted has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:03:51 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:40 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:13:58 -!- BlackrayJack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:15:23 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:16:26 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:32 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 04:40:21 -!- DrKe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:47:44 !message minmay dpeg was working on overhauling the price list at some point with someone, but they stopped after half the items or something. That probably caused some of the inconsistencies. He would probably be willing to look at an updated list and push it, maybe shoot him an email. 04:47:57 !tell minmay dpeg was working on overhauling the price list at some point with someone, but they stopped after half the items or something. That probably caused some of the inconsistencies. He would probably be willing to look at an updated list and push it, maybe shoot him an email. 04:47:57 alefury: OK, I'll let minmay know. 04:55:44 when making all spriggans speed 10, what should happen to the two uniques 05:11:04 -!- hyperbowl has left ##crawl-dev 05:11:09 -!- hyperbowl has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:15:38 -!- kwel01 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15:53 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:29 -!- yokelz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:23:24 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:26:16 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:10 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:31:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:06 -!- Crehl has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:45:33 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 05:46:06 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:51:14 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:02:06 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:43 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 06:08:37 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:11 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:14:18 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:15:30 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:17:04 Wait, what's this about Spriggans becoming speed 10 06:17:19 anyone here to explain that? 06:17:50 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:07 i want them to be speed 10 06:18:11 but move fast 06:18:22 else lair redesign isn't gonna stay i'm afraid 06:18:49 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:19:12 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:19:24 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 06:21:16 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:21:23 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:30:29 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:38:38 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:21 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:45:12 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 06:49:27 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:51:33 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:51:57 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 07:01:37 oh that makes sense then 07:17:45 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:00 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 07:19:54 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:13 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:45:38 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:48 -!- mongor has quit [Client Quit] 07:53:14 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:54:12 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:03:02 -!- tsn has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:09:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:10:07 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:57 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:15:08 -!- Mandevil has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:43 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:19:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:27:04 -!- Stigmha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:29:29 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:39:32 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 08:40:06 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 08:53:53 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:56:49 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:10 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 08:57:58 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:59:12 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:04:46 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:05:22 -!- LexAckson_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:25 -!- sicklyorphan420b has quit [Client Quit] 09:07:30 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 09:08:38 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:09:07 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:20 -!- thug_lessons has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:19:14 -!- pelotron_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:21:17 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 09:22:29 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26:36 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:28 -!- bhaak has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:31:37 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 09:32:46 -!- nixor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:33:58 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:59 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:48:07 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:17 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:00 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:57:57 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:00:37 -!- thug_lessons has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:08:51 i think people would definitely miss super-fast agnes 10:09:25 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 10:09:55 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:10:51 right now i have everything at 10 but agnes at 16.7 10:11:03 no idea what to do with the enchantress 10:11:16 Agnes (11i) | Spd: 18 | HD: 11 | HP: 100 | AC/EV: 0/20 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(102) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2148 | Sz: little | Int: high. 10:11:16 %??agnes 10:11:21 why 16.7 10:11:28 anaconda (15S) | Spd: 18 | HD: 11 | HP: 44-78 | AC/EV: 4/16 | Dam: 603(constrict), 20 | amphibious, cold-blooded | Res: 06magic(44), 12drown | XP: 925 | Sz: Large | Int: reptile. 10:11:28 %??anaconda 10:12:00 maybe the 18 stays! i'll not submit this patch if hangedman manages to get his stuff together anyways 10:12:06 and he'll probably not nerf either 10:12:34 is this a great desprigganing? 10:12:41 do they still move fast? 10:12:44 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:12:54 they move faster than now even 10:13:00 (that's the 16.7) 10:13:40 so faster than player spiggans? 10:14:09 same as player spriggan or at least i hope so 10:14:33 haven't even compiled this to test because who tests changes 10:15:02 (in unrelated news the rmsl chances at high spellpower feel a bit too high) 10:15:25 (also unrelated why does dmsl still exist) 10:15:28 &dump 10:15:28 http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/wheals/wheals.txt 10:15:45 ok, i've casted it 15 times this game 10:16:07 and i cleared a lot of places, and i don't even have that much spellpowe 10:16:22 right, maybe they're just too high across the board 10:16:58 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 10:22:27 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:22:41 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Changing host] 10:23:59 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:35 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 10:29:49 what if rmsl/dmsl got combined into a ~lv4 spell that gives you DMsl for like, 5 turns but was really loud 10:29:49 ontoclasm: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 10:30:05 so recasting it constantly would be dumb 10:30:30 and instead you use it to help when you round a corner into an alich or pack of yaktaurs or whatever 10:30:35 !messages 10:30:35 (1/2) Bloax said (17h 50m 13s ago): ACHTUNG https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/GONG.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/GONGpickup.png 10:30:39 !messages 10:30:40 (1/1) gammafunk said (14h 35m 32s ago): save the gong! 10:31:04 Bloax: BWOOOAAANNNGG 10:31:11 BONGGGG 10:32:05 -!- HellTiger_NB has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:11 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:33:59 is the gong a large shield now? 10:34:05 no 10:34:45 then bloax, would you mind making the doll tile more the size of the normal shields? 10:35:02 the ground tile is fine, but the dool one looks like a large shield 10:35:24 if you look at the shield of resistance, that's the right size 10:35:27 but it's 10:35:28 the GONG 10:35:43 how can it not be ridiculously big 10:35:57 it's not the size that's important, it's what you do with it 10:35:57 it magically attracts hits 10:36:12 gongs are big though 10:36:17 the cool ones anyway 10:36:25 and i assume this is of the coolest variety 10:37:45 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:38:08 * ontoclasm shrugs 10:38:13 i guess if it doesn't bother anyone else 10:39:12 .-. it's actually like twice the size of the large shield tiles 10:40:21 GONG POWER 10:40:40 GONG spelled backwards is GONNNNNNGGGGGG 10:40:41 what's the unrand: thing for the gong 10:40:44 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/GONGMAN.png 10:40:44 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:48 it's not unrand:gong, i tried that 10:45:28 03ontoclasm02 07* 0.14-a0-2567-gff81b03: GONNNG tiles (Bloax) 10(81 seconds ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ff81b0386e1e 10:47:31 SHROAAANNNG 10:48:51 gong is like a better large shield 10:48:56 except without the massive investment part 10:49:04 which is pretty cool now 10:50:33 Monster speed by chris 10:50:43 -!- klarki has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:52:13 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:52:16 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:53:12 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:55:16 -!- PleasingFungus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:29 -!- Lawman0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:01:42 -!- HellTiger__ has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:03:49 -!- sicklyorphan420b has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:05:24 Napkin: i started something on cdo trunk and the descs are in spanish 11:06:08 as in the blurbs for races and classes 11:06:16 config is empty? 11:07:17 yes 11:07:33 oh well, language = en should fix it for now 11:08:43 With the current state of translations and the difficulty of changing options (compared to an ingame menu like most commercial games have) this silly language thing is probably not a good default btw 11:10:30 Partially because it's still very hard to play without speaking english so turning on translations by default makes very little sense because most players speak english, partially because the mixed languages and the mostly unreviewed translation bits look extremely unprofessional 11:10:56 how is stuff going to be reviewed if nobody sees it in-game? 11:11:15 i agree it shouldn't be in releases for now, but as default in dev versions definitely makes sense 11:11:15 In theory, this should be done in the transifex interface 11:11:28 having it enabled in trunk seems fine yeah 11:11:52 But the people who can do it don't, so stuff just goes in without review 11:11:55 reviewing translations while not having the slightest idea (a) what the game is about or (b) how the string in question is used are the main reasons why the quality is as it is 11:12:06 Yeah, default in trunk is okay 11:12:15 -!- Giomancer has left ##crawl-dev 11:12:20 If you're playing trunk you can probably figure out how to change it back 11:12:27 and you can't expect a single person to review an entire language for a project like crawl without paying them good money 11:12:33 this is a full time job for weeks 11:13:08 I'm not talking about detailed editing here, a bunch of stuff is google translate level or worse 11:13:10 single person because getting a group to agree on one style while not providing any help (transifex...) is even harder 11:13:19 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-2567-gff81b03 (34) 11:13:43 how do you get worse than google translate 11:13:48 I have no idea 11:14:01 "babelfish" 11:20:59 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:03 -!- Guest62734 has joined ##crawl-dev 11:23:17 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:24:22 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:35 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:23 chain-google translate 11:27:39 anyway language = en works, just wanted to ping 11:27:45 <|amethyst> http://translationparty.com/ 11:28:58 <|amethyst> there should be a way for individual translation projects to specify "this language is ready" 11:28:59 This shield will surely be heard! -> Please contact this shield. 11:30:19 <|amethyst> the +3,+3 telephone "Bakelite" 11:37:43 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:59 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:38:07 -!- Foamed_ has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 11:41:35 * Grunt reads back and is reminded of a couple of things he's been meaning to do for a while. 11:42:22 -!- thrkk has quit [Client Quit] 11:45:08 1. babelfish ulysses 11:45:39 No, nothing to do with translations <_< 11:48:43 absolutego: and then gizoogle it 11:59:38 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:08 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 12:04:44 (I guess I should make sure this other patch compiles before I show anyone what it is.) 12:09:48 Grunt: I already know what it is 12:10:46 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:17 -!- thedefinite has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 12:12:19 http://sprunge.us/eLMa 12:13:52 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:14:31 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:01 -!- Guest62734 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:15:04 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:50 |amethyst: that first patch could use a pair of eyes or three to make sure it's not going to break anything. 12:17:33 patch gazer (16G) | Spd: 3 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 0/1 | lev, !sil | Res: 06magic(12), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 3 | Sp: paralysis gaze | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 12:17:33 %??giant_eyeball name:patch_gazer n_rpl 12:17:47 * Grunt stares at the patch. The patch twists and deforms. 12:17:57 patch reviewer (13G) | Spd: 7 | HD: 10 | HP: 38-70 | AC/EV: 3/1 | see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), asphyx, 12drown | XP: 548 | Sp: malmutate | Sz: Medium | Int: plant. 12:17:57 %??shining eye name:patch_reviewer n_rpl 12:18:42 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:18:58 patch critic (052) | Spd: 12 | HD: 7 | HP: 25-51 | AC/EV: 5/10 | Dam: 10 | 05demonic, 10doors, !sil | Res: 06magic(65), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 12cold, 12drown, 08holy++ | XP: 602 | Sp: hellfire burst (3d15) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 12:18:58 %??hellion name:patch_critic n_rpl 12:19:32 head reviewer (15&) | Spd: 20 | HD: 16 | HP: 350 | AC/EV: 10/10 | Dam: 45 | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter, evil, see invisible, lev, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 12453 | Sp: poison arrow (3d23), miasma breath (3d13), s.torment, b.draining (3d23), dispel undead (3d25) | Sz: Large | Int: high. 12:19:32 %??gloorx vloq name:head_reviewer n_rpl 12:19:49 The Uncommitable 12:20:21 are those even in monster 12:20:26 unknown monster: "the_unspeakable" 12:20:26 %??the_unspeakable 12:20:33 unknown monster: "the_meatlord" 12:20:33 %??the_meatlord 12:20:43 must be just vault defines 12:20:49 They are, yes. 12:20:51 The Unspeakable (16J) | Spd: 15 | HD: 100 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Dam: 22 | amphibious, evil, regen, !sil, 07vault | Res: 06magic(400), 03poison, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, airstrike (0-210), smiting (7-17), 04esc:death's door | Sz: small | Int: plant. 12:20:51 %??the unspeakable 12:21:00 ...but that doesn't mean they can't show up here. 12:21:04 Failed to create test monster for the the meatlord 12:21:04 %??the meatlord 12:21:23 huh, but aren't they defined in the des? 12:21:29 how does monster know about unspeakable 12:23:45 The monster program scans vaults at compile time. 12:23:45 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23:45 ah 12:23:45 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:23:46 The Meatlord (13&) | Spd: 10 | HD: 60 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 40/3 | Dam: 50 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible, !sil | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 11elec+++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, airstrike (0-130), conjure ball lightning | Sz: Large | Int: high. 12:23:46 %??dispater hp:10000 hd:60 name:The_Meatlord n_rpl col:lightmagenta generate_awake never_corpse spells:shadow_creatures;shadow_creatures;airstrike;airstrike;conjure_ball_lightning 12:23:46 (that's the non-item-half of the definition) 12:23:46 ...and it didn't work?? 12:23:50 oh 12:24:04 -!- Escalator has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:48 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:24:49 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:54 unknown monster: "The_Meatlord" 12:25:54 %??The_Meatlord 12:25:54 unknown monster: "defiler" 12:25:54 %??defiler 12:26:31 Failed to create test monster for the the defiler 12:26:31 %??the defiler 12:26:35 Don't use the _ 12:27:12 plague shambler (07n) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 66-100 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 3407(plague) | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(73), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | Chunks: 04rot | XP: 857 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 12:27:12 %??plague_shambler 12:27:42 adjectives work differently, I infer 12:28:06 pubby (L27 FoTm) (Abyss:2) 12:28:15 !crashlog pubby 12:28:16 10. pubby, XL27 FoTm, T:78923 (milestone): http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/pubby/crash-pubby-20140211-182805.txt 12:28:26 I don't think crawl has a notion of adjectives in monster names? Maybe it does 12:28:41 -!- Zelik has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:28:58 what does n_adj work on? 12:29:09 the fire giant (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:29:09 %??fire giant name:the n_adj 12:29:46 hungry kobold (07K) | Spd: 10 | HD: 1 | HP: 2-5 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 4 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(1) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 1 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 12:29:46 %??kobold name:hungry n_adj 12:29:48 fire giant (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:29:48 %??fire giant name: 12:29:50 fire giant (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:29:50 %??fire giant name: 12:30:09 I just mean that "plague shambler" is part of the mon-data.h entry 12:30:15 er it is the entry rather 12:30:27 Oh, I see what you're getting at. 12:30:42 but I think the issue might be that "the meatlord" is a vault define 12:31:11 Normal monsters check for the _ but vault monsters don't. 12:31:19 That would be easy to address. 12:31:38 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:31:39 unknown monster: "fire giant "" 12:31:39 %??fire giant name:" " 12:31:51 _" " (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:31:51 %??fire giant name:"_" 12:31:53 unknown monster: "fire giant "" 12:31:53 %??fire giant name:" " n_rpl 12:31:55 o_O 12:31:56 hehe 12:32:31 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:32 _\ (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:32:32 %??fire giant name:\ n_rpl 12:32:46 _. (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:32:46 %??fire giant name:. n_rpl 12:32:54 o_o 12:33:08 (05C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 73-120 | AC/EV: 8/4 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(85), 05fire++, 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1817 | Sp: b.fire (3d25), fireball (3d26) | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 12:33:08 %??fire giant name:_ n_rpl 12:33:12 aha! 12:33:16 I keep forgetting the name code is incomprehensible 12:33:49 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2568-g63a4c57: Base RMsl/DMsl expiry on current power rather than power at cast time 10(22 hours ago, 6 files, 32+ 38-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=63a4c57a0e2a 12:33:49 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2569-g2b21410: Adjust RMsl/DMsl scaling 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b21410292d2 12:33:49 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2570-g0c93fee: Replace Natasha's minor demon with call imp 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0c93fee5aea3 12:33:49 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-2571-ga65bd42: Improve Repel/Deflect Missiles descriptions 10(77 seconds ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a65bd4252d6c 12:33:51 now it just needs the . glyph 12:33:51 Bloax: don't you mean a ' ' 12:33:54 can you set glyph in monster? 12:34:01 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:35:19 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith 12:39:17 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:40:04 The Unspeakable (16J) | Spd: 15 | HD: 100 | HP: 10000 | AC/EV: 1/4 | Dam: 22 | amphibious, evil, regen, !sil, 07vault | Res: 06magic(400), 03poison, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | XP: 15000 | Sp: shadow creatures, airstrike (0-210), smiting (7-17), 04esc:death's door | Sz: small | Int: plant. 12:40:04 %??the unspeakable 12:40:11 unknown monster: "the unspeakable" 12:40:11 %??the unspeakable name:_ n_rpl 12:41:22 yeah you can't modify vault monsters 12:42:09 -!- dtsundere has joined ##crawl-dev 12:42:39 -!- dtsund has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:42:46 -!- dtsundere is now known as dtsund 12:42:57 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:21 -!- gnum has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:54 -!- crate has joined ##crawl-dev 12:58:14 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 12:59:47 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 13:06:01 -!- mongor has quit [Client Quit] 13:06:25 -!- popx_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:07:09 -!- gbeene has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:09:18 Serpent of hell not listed by ?/m by raskol 13:09:57 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:36 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:18:56 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 13:19:11 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:13 MrPlanck (L18 MiAK) ASSERT(!in_bounds(you.pos()) || !cell_is_solid(you.pos()) || you.wizmode_teleported_into_rock) in 'main.cc' at line 4416 failed. (Vaults:3) 13:23:55 -!- alefury|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 13:24:57 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 13:31:45 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:25 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33:57 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:34:15 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:57 -!- Borek is now known as Mandevil 13:41:29 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2572-gaf2634a: Describe monster energy usage in xv and ?/M screens. 10(2 hours ago, 7 files, 133+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=af2634a3aa6d 13:41:29 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2573-g4c9fca9: Clean up / adjust mostly spurious uses of ACTION_ENERGY. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 18+ 18-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4c9fca9d67b1 13:41:29 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2574-gc004371: Make enemy spriggans move like player spriggans. 10(16 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c004371e4178 13:41:29 03ChrisOelmueller02 {Grunt} 07* 0.14-a0-2575-gbb5a145: Change speeds of several speed 9/11 enemies. 10(7 months ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bb5a145c8ed7 13:41:29 03ChrisOelmueller02 {Grunt} 07* 0.14-a0-2576-gef78775: Make ice beast swim delay consistent with (original) ice form. 10(3 weeks ago, 2 files, 1+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef7877543ac9 13:41:56 -!- scummos__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:04 -!- wakeman has quit [Client Quit] 13:46:02 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 13:46:17 Is there some rational reason to nerf the damage output of a whole pile of monsters by 60% (and Agnes by even more than that?) 13:48:51 If you're concerned about "damage output", you can always adjust their base damage back upwards and make them overpowered against players again. 13:49:05 Is there a reason enemy spriggans should be complete terrors compared to player spriggans? 13:49:26 Well, for one thing they weren't 13:49:31 Also counterpoint: centaurs 13:49:40 spriggan defender (08i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 50-72 | AC/EV: 3/25 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(140) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1396 | Sz: little | Int: high. 13:49:40 %??spriggan defender 13:50:03 Well, defenders are a top-tier threat 13:50:04 spriggan berserker (04i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 12 | HP: 27-45 | AC/EV: 2/25 | Dam: 21 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, priest, see invisible | Res: 06magic(112) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 897 | Sp: brothers in arms, trog's hand, berserker rage | Sz: little | Int: normal. 13:50:04 %??spriggan berserker 13:50:10 wouldn't mind centaurs also being fixed 13:50:13 And they're not exactly over the top compared to similar top-tier things 13:50:16 i dont know why half the monsters in crawl should have action_delay = move_delay but half don't 13:50:25 spriggans are top-tier o_O 13:50:29 i feel like picking either of the two options would be a dramatic improvement 13:50:36 as in less confusing for players 13:50:53 crate, the disparity creates for interesting mechanics; despite the confusion it is very useful to have them disjoint. 13:51:00 interesting mechanics like what 13:51:09 Well, spriggan berserkers already hit less strongly than many deep things and now even moreso 13:51:33 i honestly have not seen what these "interesting mechanics" are that cannot be pretty much duplicated by adjusting other stats 13:51:44 Interesting monsters might be a more apt description; It allows for a wider arrangement of monsters who may move fast (or slow) and attack rapidly (or slowly). 13:51:47 oh, but having swim/move speed different is fine 13:51:47 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 13:51:53 Cryp71c, yes, but why does that matter 13:52:04 Also, how were enemy spriggans 'overpowered against players' anyway/ 13:52:05 ? 13:52:08 for melee you can just give the monster more attacks 13:52:17 i guess if it is a monster that uses lots of hexes 13:52:26 then it firing off those hexes faster kind of matters 13:52:29 (or slower) 13:52:35 but for damage i dont see the point 13:52:54 crate, Its not as if having attack speed separate from movement is somehow illogical; it is a very reasonable assumption that something which move fast (say, a Centaur) won't attack quickly. 13:53:05 right but then why is that only the case for some things 13:53:08 i think either situation is fine 13:53:08 won't necessarily attack quickly* 13:53:19 but i dont like that the current situation is "both" 13:53:28 crate, how do you mean "both" ? 13:53:36 right now some things have attack_delay = move_delay 13:53:39 e.g. centaurs 13:53:45 salamander firebrand (16N) | Spd: 10 (move: 90%; swim: 70%) | HD: 14 | HP: 58-97 | AC/EV: 5/11 | Dam: 2705(firebrand) | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(74), 04fire+++ | Vul: 12cold | XP: 1104 | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 13:53:45 %??salamander firebrand 13:53:45 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:53:46 other things (e.g. monster spriggans now) do not 13:53:56 and act at pretty much "speed 10" 13:54:15 i suggest that either everything should have "speed 10" actions, or that everything should be like monster centaurs 13:54:17 I'm not even objecting firstly to them having different move and act speeds, but moreso that this is just a flat giant nerf to a bunch of things that didn't seem to need one 13:54:26 Like, who said 'Agnes's damage output should be cut in half'? 13:54:36 (Close to half, anyway) 13:55:04 Well probably you can just make Agnes 30, 25 instead of 30 13:55:12 And everything else? :P 13:55:18 yes, and everything else 13:55:28 You COULD, but like what is the benefit of doing that over what we already had? 13:55:32 DracoOmega, I would agree; agnes was fine (albeit dangerous). I can't speak to the other monsters in general without knowing which were changed and how. 13:55:43 Speed 18: 30 instead of Speed 10 (move 50%): 30, 25? 13:55:49 The latter seems more complicated for basically the same thing 13:55:55 (The spriggan defender hits you with a demon whip of draining. You feel drained.) x27 13:55:59 I would imagine the benefit is now you have thing being somewhat more consistent 13:56:01 you could just special case agnes to be her old self since theres already precedent for uniques being different from their base 13:56:08 well the consistency argument is wrong 13:56:14 because of what i was just talking about 13:56:17 crate, you're suggesting that either everything have attack_delay = move_delay OR that everything has move_delay 10? I feel like I'm missing your intent. 13:56:22 Cryp71c, yes 13:56:28 Well it's not wrong if you make them consistent :P 13:56:31 that would be consistent 13:56:36 Grunt: Are you meaning to suggest that excessive draining is some specific argument against these things? 13:56:45 right now it is inconsistent, and i feel there is no reason nor gain from this 13:56:51 crate, so either everything attacks only as fast as it moves or else everything moves the same speed? 13:57:08 That makes for very predictible, very shallow monsters. 13:57:12 Cryp71c, either everything acts at the same as it's (land, I guess) movement speed 13:57:21 OR everything acts at speed 10 but moves at whatever 13:57:36 i dont see how this is actually different gameplay-wise from the mishmash that exists right now 13:57:37 I understand a bit better, now; that phrasing makes more sense. 13:57:48 but it is consistent 13:58:19 obviously this would be adjusting lots of monsters and you'd compensate in either direction (it's not something that i think necessarily has to be done) but i bring it up because the spriggan change is related 13:58:39 crate, in a sense, yes; but when I asked about monsters which should attack quickly and also move quickly, your solution was to add attacks to that monster; how is that any more consistent or intuitive? 13:58:48 well it might be workable now that nobody excessively promotes player/monster consistency as #1 design goal 13:59:02 but it hasn't been like that for a long while, so this might be asking for a bit much 13:59:09 I think there are cases where a slow-acting but fast-moving monster can make sense 13:59:10 Cryp71c, well it mattered much more in the past when xv was worse 13:59:17 furthermore, players do not attack at the same speed they move. 13:59:23 a lot of monsters already get multiple attacks, and it works pretty well intuitively 13:59:29 So now we're pushing for even more disjointness between monsters and players? 13:59:51 DracoOmega, do you have examples? :p 13:59:58 But honestly, my main concern at this specific juncture is a heavy nerf to a bunch of monsters that didn't seem to need one like that at all 14:00:12 i personally would rather push for good gameplay where appropriate, yes 14:00:21 I do think certain spriggans were overly hardcore at times but not -all- of them 14:00:26 i guess with xv (i guess) not lying about monster speed any more (i assume that's what the commit just did) 14:00:28 i dont care much 14:00:34 DracoOmega, Do you have the commits, by chance? I'm not on a system with the repo. 14:00:37 enemy spriggans on the other hand definitely aren't fun the slightest and hopefully this movement change helps balance them, or at least starts a discussion 14:01:01 but when xv would lie about things like salamander firebrands ... then this was an important consideration, because if xv is telling the player the wrong thing at all then it cannot be trusted 14:01:05 SwissStopwatch: Well, also a 60% damage reduction is a LOT 14:01:11 and if you cannot trust xv then there is trouble 14:01:24 combat messages saying important non spammy things would help 14:01:26 imo spriggan air mages can survive a 60% reduction 14:01:47 I don't think nearly any of them were overly strong, personally. And if so, certainly not by that degree 14:02:02 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:41 right. others do though i imagine 14:02:54 spriggan air mage (11i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 14 | HP: 32-52 | AC/EV: 1/25 | Dam: 16 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, lev, DMsl | Res: 06magic(130), 10elec++ | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1145 | Sp: airstrike (0-38), b.lightning (3d19), control winds, shock (d16) | Sz: little | Int: high. 14:02:54 %??spriggan air mage 14:04:24 For hilarity, Maud now seems to beat Agnes in the arena :P 14:04:42 well yes the nerf to Agnes is bad and I don't think there is a ton of disagreement there 14:05:27 of course she got hit relatively harder than other spriggans because of being even faster before 14:05:44 Agnes (11i) | Spd: 18 | HD: 11 | HP: 100 | AC/EV: 0/20 | Dam: 30 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, see invisible | Res: 06magic(102) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 2148 | Sz: little | Int: high. 14:05:44 %??agnes 14:05:49 The thing is, the damage output of Depths spriggans was already not especially out of keeping with other things around them (and lower than common monsters there in many cases) 14:05:51 i dont know why you cant just keep her at speed 18 14:06:00 Sonja (05K) | Spd: 14 | HD: 6 | HP: 30 | AC/EV: 2/24 | Dam: 9, 5, 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(8) | Chunks: 09poison | XP: 293 | Sp: blink, 04esc:teleport self | Sz: small | Int: normal. 14:06:00 %??sonja 14:06:04 Psyche (13@) | Spd: 13 | HD: 5 | HP: 39 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 7 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(26) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 397 | Sp: throw frost (3d6), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d6), magic dart (3d4), 04esc:invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:06:04 %??psyche 14:06:04 Psyche (13@) | Spd: 13 | HD: 5 | HP: 39 | AC/EV: 0/12 | Dam: 7 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(26) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 397 | Sp: throw frost (3d6), cantrip, haste, throw flame (3d6), magic dart (3d4), 04esc:invisibility | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 14:06:04 %??psyche 14:06:06 yes 14:06:06 etc 14:06:25 Well, I am not sure why we are changing ANY of them. Certainly 'consistency with the player' seems a bad reason 14:06:38 If there are specific problems, perhaps they can be tackled individually? 14:07:17 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-2577-g6f0844d: Un-nerf Agnes. 10(41 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f0844da8a28 14:07:33 I'm done whacking at this particular beehive. 14:08:22 by the way, it'd be nice to actually say "constantly missing against a spriggan hurts my impatient brain especially when there are "solutions" via autohit and that's why spriggans suck (unless you mean the barely-existent spen and spas) 14:08:37 wow my quotation marks got lost 14:08:38 spriggans do have a fairly unique dangerous monster profile, that being "can randomly not die for extended periods of time, are hard to escape from, and get extremely dangerous if they find good branded weapons" 14:09:06 and then they're highly vulnerable to a few specific things 14:09:23 (not much of this changed) 14:09:52 well the third part did a bit 14:10:56 spriggan berserker (04i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 12 | HP: 27-45 | AC/EV: 2/25 | Dam: 21 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, priest, see invisible | Res: 06magic(112) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 897 | Sp: brothers in arms, trog's hand, berserker rage | Sz: little | Int: normal. 14:10:56 %??spriggan berserker 14:10:59 -!- Akien has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:01 Well, the damage output of a bunch of them seems pretty weak at this point. I don't think they were too dangerous before this, and it's not like I don't have experience fighting them. Even defenders ALREADY had lesser damage output than many high-tier monsters in Depths, and now just plain hit for less than common Depths things 14:11:39 averages won't matter to people thinking of spikes 14:11:58 well the spikes are incredibly relevant because usually they are the best way to kill players 14:12:01 well this is some kind of ijyb-class spike and i'm not sure i like having that 14:12:16 ijyb can get away with it because you haven't invested as much into your game by then 14:12:25 What 'spikes' are you talking about here? 14:12:34 (hopefully maybe they're also more tolerable in depths now, yes) 14:12:36 There are some monsters where you could raise their base damage by 20% and it probably would not help them kill players hardly at all 14:12:44 (not sure that is good or bad for the overall depths experience but hey) 14:12:50 (Also, monsters hitting more rapidly for less damage at a time seems to be LESS prone to spikes than monsters hitting for more potential damage less often) 14:12:57 yes i am very confused 14:13:02 spike damage = ettin 14:13:05 well the spike is when they pick up an elec weapon and suddenly it's fun time 14:13:27 well that's more like, spriggans are unusually affected by additive brands 14:13:29 was assuming the spike comments referred to weapon brands in particular 14:13:44 but then they just deal consistently higher damage ,for the most part :p 14:13:44 yes, which I mentioned before (so did Grunt, I suppose) 14:14:29 -!- sstrickl has quit [Changing host] 14:14:35 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:04 At any rate I generally don't disagree that a lot of spriggans are also very non-dangerous much of the time 14:16:11 The way they're designed makes them be randomly hardcore more often than most other things though 14:16:22 I don't see how? 14:16:23 In terms of elec being worse for them than other people, even at old damage levels, a spriggan defender barely did more damage than a vault warden when each has an electruction weapon 14:16:31 Even though they get SOME more overall benefit 14:16:45 well spriggan defender in particular i dont care that much about elec 14:16:48 vault wardens do a ton of damage 14:16:48 since they do lots of damage! 14:16:56 i'm not sure that is a good comparison point 14:16:59 really I should be mentioning disto 14:17:09 Vault wardens are also less deep than defenders 14:17:22 And yes, it was an example of another strong monster (that is somewhat more shallow) 14:17:34 -!- nixor1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:41 Because an enemy that's faster than you and attacks quickly gets -really- fun when it has disto, which does happen a fair bit 14:17:49 My point is that I don't think elec is some amazingly more awful thing for spriggans than it was for other people. By a bit, but not in some horrible dramatic way compared to other things 14:18:05 in a 60% more dramatic way precisely 14:18:17 -!- fiddlerwoaroof has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:25 well for e.g. spriggan berserker 14:18:25 swiss: so, hell knights 14:18:28 elec was pretty big deal 14:18:42 but that's because "spriggan berserker" doesnt deal damage unless it has elec 14:18:53 Also it now deals 60% less damage than that 14:18:56 For some reason 14:18:56 so going from 0 to ~10 per turn is a big change 14:19:05 now it only goes from 0 to 6 or 7 14:19:06 It also needs to remember to berserk 14:19:09 Sometimes this doesn't happen 14:19:18 Or maybe sometimes it dies too fast 14:19:30 sometimes one can get evilmike_ambush 14:19:40 (spriggan berserkers are weird) 14:19:45 anyway i dont really care either way about these specific monsters since i dont like spriggan monsters in general 14:19:55 -!- fiddlerwoaroof has quit [Client Quit] 14:20:02 crate: But I assume the objection is not 'they deal too much damage', is it? 14:20:02 and their attack speed had nothing to do with this 14:20:10 well i'm not the one that made the change! 14:20:17 No, but I'm just checking 14:20:27 would it be greatly difficult to just up their hp and lower their ev 14:20:28 idk, personally i would probably have not changed monster spriggan speed 14:20:50 tenofswords: I already did this a bit to some of them 14:20:53 A while back 14:21:07 Enchantress used to have 40 EV or something 14:21:11 the Enchantress (13i) | Spd: 16 | HD: 15 | HP: 85 | AC/EV: 1/32 | Dam: 26 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster, see invisible, DMsl | Res: 13magic(immune) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 4960 | Sp: dimension anchor, slow, haste, mass confusion, strip resistance, 04esc:invisibility | Sz: little | Int: high. 14:21:11 %??the_enchantress 14:21:21 since "I can't see how well random attacks have been doing against a low-hp, high-ev monster"... 14:22:30 (I wonder if this would be a non-issue in about six months when automagic "works") 14:25:02 -!- lukano has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:36 ah, i found a bug at some point 14:35:18 the auto-target thing for spells will target immune enemies as long as there are non-immune ones also in view 14:35:46 that is on mantis, yeah 14:35:58 ah, good 14:36:08 it's also not "resolved" or "closed" 14:36:35 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:39:08 -!- DracheReborn has joined ##crawl-dev 14:41:01 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:26 -!- 21WACB89E has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:57:36 -!- BigBluFrog has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:58:33 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:59:34 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:59:40 -!- Vultyre has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:28 ugh, 50/66 but this mangling is starting to make me feel bad 15:04:57 -!- Vultyre has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:03 maybe I should just be testing crystal guardians instead 15:06:47 -!- horsik has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:13:06 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:24 Sonny (L12 SpEn) ASSERT(amount >= 0) in 'player.cc' at line 7992 failed. (D (Sprint)) 15:20:06 !crashlog sonny 15:20:06 No milestones for sonny (crash). 15:23:42 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:24:57 !crashlog sonny sprint 15:24:58 2. Sonny, XL12 SpEn, T:4139 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Sonny/crash-Sonny-20140211-211421.txt 15:25:20 -!- raskol has quit [Client Quit] 15:26:14 -!- sstrickl has quit [Quit: sstrickl] 15:27:29 -!- raskol_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:28:03 -!- sstrickl has quit [Changing host] 15:29:59 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:31:04 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 15:32:16 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:35:09 -!- floatboth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:38 like, is http://sprunge.us/MMbY even recognizable as v:$ anymore, sheesh 15:35:54 -!- _fred has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:38:36 tenofswords: any thought on my suggestion? 15:39:08 another possibility: the t junctions are closed, while the outside corners are open 15:39:16 ontoclasm: it's actually a really good idea too but it would actually require more efforts rather than less 15:39:23 hm 15:39:45 I am planning to simulate a stab at that after I finish the baseline and hardest thing 15:39:49 yeah, i guess i can see that 15:39:52 Was the lower-left one always that asymmetric? 15:40:17 low-left top V:$ or low-left bottom v:$ 15:40:38 Oh, haha. I only noticed one, since it fit perfectly on my screen :P 15:40:38 Top 15:41:44 -!- LexAckson_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:52 I cut off one path to the now-most-reclusive area near a corner so that the approaches aren't always good from given angles, but otherwise it has always looked weird like that yes 15:42:35 (I think seperate from all other context bottom-v:$ bottom-right change would be liked by nearly everybody :P) 15:43:19 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:45:03 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:45:59 wow, there is a trove on this v:$ 15:46:12 What? 15:47:24 I see it's the trowel vault which is given overwrite properties, but I wonder if I was the accidental cause of this from earlier trove.des eediting 15:50:12 -!- Venter has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:51:15 ...oh dear, this has always been a thing I guess 15:51:42 Really? How have I never heard of it happening before? 15:51:52 I have no idea 15:52:56 ...oh, pleh, it is in fact my fault whoops 15:53:27 it is just super-rare due to the chance_trove tag making it super-rare 15:56:53 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 16:00:40 03tenofswords02 07* 0.14-a0-2578-g9e16a7c: Prevent trove portals from appearing nearly anywhere(?) super-rarely. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9e16a7c43eec 16:00:42 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:56 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:03:23 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:04:32 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:04:44 wow jelly form is slow, lol 16:04:57 ...wasn't jellyform supposed to never appear 16:05:13 i was just looking at the code 16:05:26 i assumed that it was supposed to appear at one point in development 16:05:36 when badforms were first being drafted up 16:05:45 too "scummy" 16:05:51 I wonder if it'd be good for jiyva wrath 16:06:07 then why was it made...? 16:06:18 you are asking the wrong person 16:06:19 Wouldn't jellyform be basically porcupineform except with more acid? 16:06:36 <|amethyst> item-eating for healing was the broken part 16:06:47 <|amethyst> and also what distinguished it from porcupine, yes 16:06:56 item eating would be too stupid 16:07:00 wow I have absolutely no idea what to do with vaults_end_minmay_connected_circles 16:07:12 -!- notgreentea has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:07:13 <|amethyst> wheals: in the hopes that it could be made to work; but then it wasn't removed because it's easier just to make it not generate 16:07:14 !vault minmay_connected_circles 16:07:15 may have to give in before reaching that 69/69 16:07:15 http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=blob;f=crawl-ref/source/dat/des/branches/vaults.des;hb=HEAD#l1884 16:07:26 <|amethyst> s/generate/actually appear/ 16:07:53 you could also shoot for 68/68! 16:08:52 are you implying that there's any particular quadrant 16:08:55 to cut 16:09:33 i mean that one 16:09:39 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:09:48 if you fail, just redefine your goals so you succeeded 16:10:21 insanity 16:10:44 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:58 then why was it made...? 16:11:05 if only we knew for any other badform 16:11:17 also yes (a) why is it speed not 10 (b) why is it 16:11:46 badforms were made so that ijyb wouldn't cause psychological instadeath 16:11:48 duh 16:12:08 just potentially literal death 16:15:55 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:30 I played with jellyform a bit 16:18:38 funnything was you could like hit i 16:18:44 and eat almost anything there 16:19:03 inventory menu was basically a buffet 16:21:10 -!- ldf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:16 clearly make it a jiyva power to replace 16:23:21 request jelly 16:24:20 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:06 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-2579-g273153d: Remove an unused variable. 10(85 seconds ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=273153d14177 16:32:17 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 16:32:34 jelly form is a thing now? 16:34:01 <|amethyst> no more than since it was implemented. It exists but only wizmode causes it 16:35:57 -!- tortuga has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:10 -!- jeffro has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:47 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 16:43:33 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2580-g6b13c70: Revert global spriggan monster nerf 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6b13c70ea272 16:43:33 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2581-gb750380: Nerf spriggan druids a little 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 9+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b750380a6ace 16:45:44 you missed nerfing the others. 16:46:32 plain spriggans need a nerf? 16:48:32 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:48:38 Targeting rod of fiery destruction with allies present asks for confirmation too early. by Medar 16:52:02 -!- Ruffell has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:42 Auto-travel lets you starve to death by Arrhythmia 16:53:55 <|amethyst> Napkin: ChrisOelmueller (playing as 41robin) has a stuck crawl-anc process eating 100% CPU 16:54:32 <|amethyst> Napkin: and AFAIK I don't have any permissions that would let me deal with that, but maybe there's some dgl command I'm forgetting? 16:55:05 -!- CyberSandwich has joined ##crawl-dev 16:56:17 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [] 16:56:18 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 16:57:36 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:57:53 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:57:58 -!- Akien has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:11 -!- Ruffell has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:22 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:11 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:49 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 17:04:21 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:22 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:07:31 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 17:09:27 -!- ystael has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:09:55 -!- minmay has joined ##crawl-dev 17:11:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:13 -!- LogicNinja has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:17:29 -!- _fred has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:19:46 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:46 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 17:19:46 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 17:21:20 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 17:22:12 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:25:34 -!- rchandra has left ##crawl-dev 17:25:41 -!- HellTiger_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:39 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:33:11 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:34 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:39:04 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:40:47 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:00 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:48:41 -!- hayuto has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:33 -!- DracheReborn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:51:13 -!- johnny0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:03 -!- johnny0 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:54:37 -!- eith|2 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:55:50 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:57:55 -!- Krakhan has quit [] 17:59:28 Invocations untrainable by caleb 18:01:55 !messages 18:01:55 (1/1) ChrisOelmueller said (9h 30m 24s ago): Is it possible to add 0.13 for rhf server?! 18:02:09 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: bbl] 18:03:26 !tell joosa Is it possible to add 0.13 for rhf server?! 18:03:26 TZer0: OK, I'll let joosa know. 18:03:44 !tell ChrisOelmueller Wrong person, I maintain CLAN, not RHF, I've forwarded the message. 18:03:44 TZer0: OK, I'll let chrisoelmueller know. 18:04:11 !tell ChrisOelmueller Besides, I have both 0.13 and trunk ;) 18:04:35 TZer0: OK, I'll let chrisoelmueller know. 18:05:07 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:05:39 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 18:26:57 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:05 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:56 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:23 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:35:01 |amethyst. that's what happened to MakMorn. stuck process at 100% 18:40:58 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:44:46 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:44:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2582-g7bda2e5: Somewhat unnerf deep elf summoners 10(43 minutes ago, 4 files, 5+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7bda2e53d85b 18:44:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2583-g9b0eb91: Somewhat unnerf orb spiders 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b0eb917c769 18:44:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2584-g3748a15: Fix orb spider charging not producing a message 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3748a153bb9d 18:44:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2585-gc98ed01: Reduce merfolk aquamancer band size a bit 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c98ed0122a58 18:44:59 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2586-g05a45df: A few small tweaks to Shoals population weights 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=05a45dfc252d 18:45:07 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:08 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:30 you know what would improve orb spiders 18:45:42 if their orbs did a bit more damage 18:45:46 but didn't home in on you 18:46:32 or at least actively so beyond getting a clear path towards you 18:46:48 I have been pondering the drain indicator. I keep accidentally trying to eat things on instinct when I notice the yellow words over there as I walk around. I wonder if there's some way to make it a little less obtrusive for a longer-term effect? 18:47:11 -!- montyb has quit [Quit: montyb] 18:47:13 Like, I considered maybe coloring xl like stats get colored when drained (except that it doesn't actually affect xl itself now). But something similarly less intrusive? 18:47:29 My concern, of course, is that newer players won't know what that means, so it would nice to be less obtrusive AND clear 18:47:45 -!- Ganrao_ has joined ##crawl-dev 18:48:02 can we add a tiny indicator in the hp/mp area 18:48:04 (D) 18:48:07 Make it purple instead of yellow. 18:48:08 colorized 18:48:18 I guess that's no more clear 18:48:40 so that it doesn't conflict with the hunger indicators 18:48:44 I mean, to be fair, the penalty from Ash wrath isn't indicated anywhere outside your skill screen either 18:48:49 But that's longer-term 18:48:52 -!- Fortescue|Home has quit [] 18:48:54 yeah and much more rare 18:48:58 -!- Ganrao_ is now known as Fortescue 18:49:16 removing hunger would also 18:49:21 The fact that draining IS fairly common, but also not something you need to worry about at low levels of it makes me not entirely like a big 'Drain' stuck there a bunch of the time, I guess? 18:50:35 I think most players do look at the m screen pretty frequently 18:50:44 -!- Fortescue has quit [Client Quit] 18:50:53 -!- Fortescue has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:53 skill training is just slightly important 18:51:15 I see a lot of them look at it immediately after being drained, even 18:51:17 To see how much 18:51:24 Would purple XP make sense? 18:51:36 I mean "XP" instead of "Drain" 18:51:49 In the normal indicator spot? 18:52:00 I guess 18:52:16 Shorther and not being yellow would mean it's less distracting. 18:52:21 -!- Bodrick has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:52:24 But I don't remember what other colors are used already. 18:52:29 so purple, deep purple 18:52:40 ??deep_purple 18:52:40 I don't have a page labeled deep_purple in my learndb. 18:54:07 I don't think there's any other indicator that uses a severity progression with purple, is there? 18:54:17 Yellow->Lightred->Red is the standard 18:56:13 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 18:56:36 Really, I probably PERSOALLY would be okay with a colored xl, but my main concern is just transparency to people who don't already know what it indicates 18:57:35 <|amethyst> maybe hunger is the one that should use different colours from everything else 18:58:13 "petrifying" is magenta 18:58:16 <|amethyst> I think a "Drain" light is fine, and consistent with everything else we do, but now that you mention it having the same colour as hunger is annoying 18:58:45 it could just not display anywhere besides the m screen if it would be yellow now 18:58:52 |amethyst: It's particularly where hunger used to be the only thing that normally made a yellow light that would stick around while autoexploring and such 18:59:03 Other stuff will just wear off 18:59:04 Or interrupt 18:59:15 Well, drain is a long time effect that you can't wait out. That's quite different from other warnings. 19:01:03 -!- Bodrick has joined ##crawl-dev 19:01:47 I think coloring XL is a bit mysterious, not saying a "(D)" indicator is better 19:03:55 -!- scummos| has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:13 I agree with mysterious 19:04:16 Hence the problem :P 19:06:26 blinking scrolling, all caps text: YOU ARE DRAINED 19:06:30 get the point across 19:07:48 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:04 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:11:21 -!- agentgt has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:11:34 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:06 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:23 press q to quaff restab 19:16:13 One other thing. I was going to (as discussed a while back), make it so that oklobs will fire on their own in general, rather than waiting for either you or themselves to be hit first (which tends to make them appear oddly uncooperative at times). And it occured to me that maybe it would be a quality-of-life improvement if summons in general did that, if there were hostiles around when you summone 19:16:13 d them. Instead of needing to summon a few and then hit tw again 19:16:19 They would just join in the battle 19:16:57 Yeah, there are times when they seem to just stay near you, and other times when they "immediately" join the fray 19:17:08 based on, I think, whether others are already engaged 19:17:17 weird behaviour with you.pet_target I guess 19:17:18 No. I think someone has to try and hit you 19:17:26 After they are created 19:17:31 Which might happen! But often doesn't 19:17:37 DracoOmega: I mean if do something like ta or yes if someone hits me 19:17:42 and I make a new summon 19:17:52 not just try, they don't fight if something is swinging at you and missing 19:18:17 another issue with summons that's probably not easy to solve is that 19:18:23 I think it would be fairly easy to just get them to do it all the time. Like, upon summoning, make them automatically pick a hostile target if one is nearby. Shadows from the lamp of shadows already do this, for example 19:18:33 yeah, that does sound nice 19:18:35 elliptic mentioned some good reasons to not change it to work like that, i don't recall the details though 19:18:48 The only 'downside' from a player perspective is that you can't create a bunch in front of a sleep monster and send them off at once 19:18:54 Well, the only one I saw, anyway 19:19:10 hrm, that's not that big a deal in my mind 19:19:11 But that seems not that important most of the time? I mean, probably the spell will wake them up anyway, unless it's really low level 19:19:20 And if you really need stealth, you could do it off-screen 19:19:22 one was that some characters just don't want their summons to do that, if they are using ranged attacks too for example 19:19:34 yeah and summoners generally have time on their side since they have these meat shields in the first place 19:19:57 I guess we could add something analogous to ^t, but that's more hassle 19:20:19 DracoOmega: I already changed oklob behaviour a bit few months(?) ago. 19:20:20 i'd remove ^t if anything 19:20:21 also t 19:20:25 MarvinPA: Why would they want their summons not to engage? I'm not sure I understand the scenario here? 19:20:40 DracoOmega: Well, it was actually a patch by Basil. 19:20:44 not tt, I think 19:20:54 i guess the problem is the summons might get between you and your target? 19:21:03 as in blocking line-of-fire, yes 19:21:05 But can't they liekly be summoned in that position already? 19:21:10 %git 0bca5b1 19:21:11 07Sage02 {Medar} * 0.14-a0-1944-g0bca5b1: Make oklobs fire automatically when they have no preassigned target. 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0bca5b1567eb 19:21:19 also the fact that currently you have to make noise to send summons at things 19:21:24 yes that too 19:21:26 but without t, summons can't really function anyhow, so remove t is really just "remove summons", which is an opinion with a number of people have 19:21:30 is probably the biggest thing 19:21:40 Could make summons noisier to cast, I guess? 19:21:52 I don't know. I felt that pausing to tw repeatedly when rereshing summons was a bit awkward 19:21:58 yeah, I use polearms/darts to avoid t in many instances 19:21:59 Since often they just stand around clueless otherwise 19:22:56 DracoOmega: another big issue that probably has no easy solution is constantly needing to tf and ta to get your summons to not 1vs1 monsters in corridors 19:23:11 That's a more complicated problem, yes 19:23:27 yeah, was thinking about how to solve, but I doubt very much there's a cute solution there 19:24:03 (At the very least, I think something like lightning spire ought to not need tw-ing, but I think I'd like it if normal summons didn't need to either, if you're already casting them mid-battle) 19:24:07 -!- jeffro has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:17 i think lost souls would be more interesting if they were speed 10 19:24:24 DracoOmega: you mean ta-ing? 19:24:28 Or that 19:24:29 making them noisier to cast could work maybe, anyway 19:24:56 probably worth mentioning it when elliptic's around since i don't recall if there were any other problems with it 19:25:08 reasoning being, in many cases now there aren't really decisions to make about diverting attention to kill the lost soul as it's just a waste of time 19:25:09 That doesn't seem very often these days 19:25:19 the fact that you have to ta is obvious but is it really that relevant? 19:25:28 er, s/ta/make noise/ 19:25:52 -!- jeffro has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:19 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:00 -!- TAS-2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:15 -!- CyberSandwich has quit [Quit: CyberSandwich] 19:35:16 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:17 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 19:39:16 -!- alefury|2 has quit [] 19:39:26 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:36 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 19:39:50 Oh, it seems that ta-ing will actually make subsequent summons attack that target. But of course that only lasts until that one dies (and tw is generally much better at getting summons to not be supid trying to GET to a single target) 19:40:20 Since they have a tendency to try too hard to get to that one thing and ignore other things on that way 19:40:37 Even if they can't contribute usefully because of the other allies in the way of the main target 19:40:54 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:40:59 yeah, I have to tf them a bunch in big fights 19:41:02 to prevent just that 19:41:06 blinking enemies can be the worst 19:41:08 for that reason 19:41:43 I actually should just tw them for blinking enemies, come to think of it 19:42:28 I find that normally tw is just the best way overall to get allies to engage, since they won't bunch up trying to reach things they can't 19:42:37 And often you don't care too much what dies first 19:42:41 yes I probably should use that more 19:42:47 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:49 I'm mostly reliant on ta/tf 19:43:03 (But it also does mean that you need to tw again every time you summon new things or they might just stand around) 19:44:00 well, I think for enemies where I'm concerned that my meat shield will run all over the place, tw is a good solution 19:44:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:44:15 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:44:19 most of the time ta is appropriate 19:44:23 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 19:44:33 (Incidentally, about guardian golem, if it really is desired that it be used as an ally shield, I think it needs to just passively apply injury bond automatically to allies. Since the current implementation not only needs to have it bother to cast it (which it might not) and then it doesn't apply to anything you summon after unless it casts it AGAIN, etc.) 19:44:35 i never use ta 19:44:42 tw seems pretty much always better 19:44:57 crate: if you're a "pure summoner" I think it's necessary 19:44:58 Yeah, that's been my experience once I learned that tw actually did things 19:45:07 As opposed to 'stand here and do nothing' 19:45:27 if I tw next to something very dangerous like a nasty c 19:45:37 I have a bad time if there are any holes in that meat shield 19:45:45 but this is speedrun play anyhow 19:45:57 the solution is to "have defenses" in a normal game 19:46:40 I'm not sure how ta is less likely to leave a hole in your summons than tw, unless there are enemies you care about in one direction and ones you don't in some other? 19:46:55 DracoOmega: all summons head uniformaly towards that nasty c 19:47:03 so they block more effectively 19:47:09 it's really for ranged threats 19:47:26 although it'd be for anything where it can tear through your summons if you don't mob it immediately 19:47:32 like a hydra or something 19:47:53 i'm guessing this is because of the fact "ta" sticks until the thing dies even if you summon more dudes? 19:48:03 yeah that as well 19:48:07 if there's only one enemy on screen then in my experience ta and tw are identical 19:48:28 ta seems like the kind of micromanagey thing you'd think crawl ally interface wouldn't have 19:49:35 well when I use ta it's almost always right on the enemy choice since it's the closer one; perhaps I would do just as well with tw against that horrifying D or c 19:50:23 By the way, when I said that I wanted new summons to automatically pick targets, I didn't mean that summons you already had trailing you when you run into something to automatically break and engage 19:50:24 under tw, if I have a bunch of allies and one engages that enemy, will the others immedately follow? 19:50:35 Just that ones summoned while by hostiles would engage hostiles 19:50:43 if summons are tw'd they will move toward anything in los and attack it 19:50:50 generally the thing nearest to said summon 19:51:16 I see, so the only issue might be guys on my left attacking the rat on the left instead of the hydra I'm worried about on my right 19:51:29 yes 19:51:42 against groups where you just want your summons to do things tw tends to make them do things better 19:51:42 In practice, that isn't that common 19:51:50 since ta gets them hung up on the single enemy you targeted 19:51:53 Yeah 19:51:56 and lets e.g. that orc warrior run around your summons 19:52:03 DracoOmega: perhaps not very common, but those situations are critical 19:52:13 for speedruns i could see ta being more useful i guess 19:52:16 if I don't have 'ta' anyhow 19:53:10 it does seem kind of micromanagey though like wheals said 19:53:19 DracoOmega: yeah engage if summoned near hostiles does sound nice 19:53:58 well micromanagement is an across-the-board issue with summons 19:54:12 idk i pretty much just summon them and then tw and that's it 19:54:20 and i go melee things while my summons also melee them 19:54:34 but i recognize this is not how most people play "summoners" 19:55:24 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 19:55:27 it's probably the "correct" way to have summons work in crawl, at least, without having a lot of fancier AI or something 19:55:36 crate's description, I mean 19:55:57 a "I only do summons and not melee" player wouldn't like e.g. no ta 19:56:08 but I doubt that's really the concern here 19:56:18 No, I didn't plan to touch that :P 19:56:34 well, I'm safe for now, I guess :) 19:59:15 Removing ta would certainly help raise awereness about tw :) 19:59:21 It would be nice if there was a way to determine 'pre-battle-prep' from 'battle-in-progress', to avoid the small downsides of this approach, but ultimately I'm not sure that *I* see it as a problem anyway 20:00:12 DracoOmega: Aren't you proposing to only change summon behaviour while a hostile is in los anyhow? 20:00:19 Yes 20:00:20 or you mean pre-battle-pre in los of a hostile 20:00:23 Yes 20:00:26 ah ok 20:00:43 yeah personally I don't do that a lot, not sure many would complain 20:00:44 Like, right now you can spend a few turns casting before engagin en mass 20:00:49 And maybe not even wake stuff up 20:01:02 but the upside is no noise! 20:01:04 that's huge 20:01:06 MarvinPA, DracoOmega: I vaguely remember seeing some problems with having summons automatically choose a target, but it has been a while and I don't really remember anything other than the question of which target should be chosen 20:01:24 it isn't really related to the reasons why I don't like summons currently, anyway 20:01:46 elliptic: Well, changing their starting MHITYOU to MHITNOT is basically like pressing tw as they're creating, if hostiles are nearby 20:01:53 In terms of what they'd pick 20:02:20 DracoOmega: right 20:02:21 I don't think it would need some new intelligent behavior 20:02:37 Since if you HAVE called a specific target they will respect that 20:02:43 the situation in which it might be problematic is if there are two different hostile monsters in different directions 20:02:55 and one is much scarier than the other for whatever reason 20:03:12 and you summon a few things to protect you from that one, but they instantly run away in the other direction 20:03:24 Hmmm 20:03:48 Well, if you've already ta'd the scary one, that wouldn't happen, I guess 20:04:02 But that's no good if you just ARRIVED in that situation 20:04:41 (Hence why it would be nice if it could sort of tell when had already told the OTHER summons to break and attack at their convenience) 20:06:37 And you can't really go 'if you tw'd recently, make new summons obey this for a short time', since I figure that might lead to awkward things like twing without anything out sometimes 20:06:49 Or it wearing off in the middle of some extended battle with no way to see it did 20:08:27 (Inversely, I'm not sure it's actually obvious now to newer players that allies will often stand around being unhelpful even during obvious threat, without you commanding them specifically. At least not for a while) 20:08:43 (At least I remember myself taking a while to understand some of how this worked, when sometimes they seemed to react to stuff and sometimes they didn't) 20:09:35 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:09:43 -!- alaspooryorick has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:09 That's true. And I never figured that tw was useful in battle before reading this conversation. 20:10:15 slimerobin (L16 SpEn) (Vaults:2) 20:10:16 It obviously doesn't have the best name. 20:10:59 <|amethyst> !crashlog slimerobin 20:10:59 2. slimerobin, XL16 SpEn, T:29655 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/slimerobin/crash-slimerobin-20140212-020716.txt 20:11:07 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 20:11:35 -!- RZX has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:43 -!- randomizr is now known as RZX 20:13:08 elliptic: Incidentally, do you think the ocassional unfortunate situation like that is reason enough not to experiment with possibly a quality-of-life improvement for a lot of standard pure summoner play? 20:13:35 no, I'm not opposed to trying it out... it's quite likely an improvement 20:14:20 Fair enough 20:14:29 <|amethyst> oh, those malign offering crashes 20:14:51 Oh? What's the issue with it? 20:15:32 <|amethyst> fall-through to BEAM_VIRULENCE 20:16:51 What? A missing break? 20:16:57 <|amethyst> returns actually 20:17:02 Is this fixed already? 20:17:05 <|amethyst> working on it 20:17:08 Oh, okay 20:20:50 neil (L1 HuFi) (D:1) 20:21:45 neil (L1 HuFi) (D:1) 20:21:48 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:25 hehe 20:23:29 log onto crashscumming 20:23:39 crashrobin 20:23:43 |amethyst: Hmmm... is it that it can attempt to poison a monster after killing it? 20:23:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:24:25 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it's actually the check_res_magic that crashes 20:24:50 Oh, okay 20:24:53 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: since has_ench(ENCH_POISON) should be false 20:28:21 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2587-gb757ec4: Don't crash when Malign Offering kills something (#8135) 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b757ec448c69 20:34:08 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all!] 20:35:50 re: the spriggan reveert 20:35:51 Seperating monster spriggan move/action speeds ostensibly for parity 20:35:51 with player spriggans is also a massive damage nerf to an entire class 20:35:52 of monsters, many of which do not seem to warrant one. 20:36:02 i think the change was pretty good 20:36:20 spriggan packs in depths in my two games since they were put there are possibly the most dangerous thing there now 20:41:14 the spriggan druid nerf also seems pretty underwhelming. haste plants is not the issue 20:41:31 has been made pretty clear that fixing actual issues is not desired 20:42:17 nerfing spriggan druids meaningfully imo involves at least one of: making them not spriggans (slower, could actually hit them if you went into water to fight them) 20:42:24 getting rid of awaken forest 20:42:32 getting rid of druid's call 20:42:50 sunray and huge EV are also pretty bad 20:42:50 minmay: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 20:42:56 !messages 20:42:56 (1/1) alefury said (15h 54m 59s ago): dpeg was working on overhauling the price list at some point with someone, but they stopped after half the items or something. That probably caused some of the inconsistencies. He would probably be willing to look at an updated list and push it, maybe shoot him an email. 20:43:10 yes i am lumping huge EV in with the sprigganness 20:43:27 we need hydra druids 20:43:28 if you made them speed 10 monsters with call and awaken forest they would probably still be quite dangerous but i might consider actually killing some 20:43:36 problem solved! 20:43:50 as i tried to actually fight one recently, got an alligator called on me and forest awoken the next turn and took 100 damage in 2 turns 20:44:00 this is to say the least rather extreme for one enemy in a lair branch 20:44:37 Lerny 20:44:38 -!- Azzkikr has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:44:47 That's probably overly pedantic, though 20:44:58 if tlh spawned randomly i'd probably be concerned about that too 20:45:23 well it can just be recalled on you 20:45:37 this perfectly combines after all 20:45:58 !lg * killer=~lernaean x=dam max=dam 20:45:59 242. [dam=18] Basil the Slayer (L17 OgGl), worshipper of Okawaru, slain by the 27-headed Lernaean hydra on Swamp:5 (swamp_old_school) on 2014-01-06 23:30:52, with 166924 points after 40426 turns and 2:25:39. 20:46:10 !lg * killer=~lernaean x=tdam max=tdam 20:46:10 242. [tdam=186] jhed the Intangible (L25 MiFi), worshipper of Cheibriados, mangled by the 27-headed Lernaean hydra on Swamp:5 (swamp_old_school) on 2012-01-23 18:30:31, with 455572 points after 69166 turns and 5:18:09. 20:46:51 !lg * tdam>100 / chei 20:46:53 45/813 games for * (tdam>100): N=45/813 (5.54%) 20:47:20 !lg * tdam>100 dam i'm just curious what positive behavior druids as is are supposed to actually encourage 20:47:20 'tdam' is not an integer in 'dam is this a bad way to think about monsters? 20:48:18 i think the original idea was to choose between fighting in water and being disadvantaged and standing next to trees and being hurt 20:48:32 that would be cool if you could actually hit them 20:48:48 another alternative: guarantee 3-4 potions of flight at the beginning of swamp 20:48:54 (i haven't played swamp recently so i don't know how well this worked) 20:49:06 well presumably the original idea was to get you in the open in forest, not necessarily in water 20:49:18 this is part of why i think they are especially poorly adapted for the transfer 20:49:28 * tenofswords sighs 20:49:44 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 20:49:50 tenofswords: i thought you liked feedback! 20:49:55 no claims of idiocy anywhere 20:50:31 no no no it's just that I have a response to most of this in a swamp layout I never finished 20:50:50 it is what I get for spreading myself so thin, I guess 20:56:40 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:05:54 -!- mamgar has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:01 -!- morik___ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:08:04 <|amethyst> hm... it would be nice if targetter_beam had a way to specify the origin spell 21:08:26 <|amethyst> that could avoid some of the name == "" stuff currently in beam.cc 21:08:39 <|amethyst> (currently the targetter beams have origin_spel = SPELL_NO_SPELL 21:09:04 Well, there are also beams with special effects that are not even from spells 21:09:27 <|amethyst> true 21:09:28 (Which, yes, perhaps theoretically should be, but that is extra issues on top of it) 21:10:54 I wish "Branch not generated this game. Go there anyway?" didn't pop up when I am already wizmode'd into that branch 21:11:00 Yeah 21:11:12 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-2588-g7065d4e: Don't issue stop-attack prompt when targetting Explosive Bolt (#8140) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7065d4e76641 21:11:14 A minor quibble, but I just ran into it myself then :P 21:12:19 does generating the branch in wizmode cause anything to go into "permanently" into any class data? 21:12:46 s/ into // 21:13:09 <|amethyst> the levels get generated etc 21:13:28 <|amethyst> if you wanted to prevent that message, you'd seed to set brentry[thebranch] when you go there anyway 21:13:38 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 21:13:38 Ok, sounds like wiz mode code could see that, then 21:13:52 <|amethyst> but then there isn't actually an entry on the source level so I'm not sure what problems exist there 21:14:13 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:14:20 <|amethyst> gammafunk: checking whether a level in that branch exists is kind of ugly, since you have to iterate through chunks in the save file 21:14:35 <|amethyst> since maybe Branch:1 doesn't exist but Branch:3 does (this is wizmode) 21:15:06 not trivial to fix then? 21:15:27 <|amethyst> maybe just setting the branch entry when you go there anyway is good enough 21:15:36 <|amethyst> but it would be nice to have a way to undo that 21:16:27 <|amethyst> or could maybe have a special invalid branch entry value to say "doesn't exist, but don't prompt" 21:16:37 <|amethyst> or could set up a boolean array parallel to brentry 21:16:52 <|amethyst> (can't do it in branches itself because that's const) 21:17:04 <|amethyst> so I wouldn't call it nontrivial 21:17:23 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:28 <|amethyst> just a matter of picking one of those and doing some programming 21:18:04 sounds like a good project to learn a bit about the level code anyhow 21:18:31 <|amethyst> branches code anyway 21:18:43 <|amethyst> hopefully you don't have to deal with files.cc at all :) 21:18:47 "Removed spurious branch warning in crawl wizard mode" will also look amazing on my resume 21:18:55 -!- EightFlyingCars has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:19:05 <|amethyst> That's terrible 21:19:09 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:10 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:19:16 <|amethyst> You have to make your résumé sound positive 21:19:28 <|amethyst> "Added spurious branch warning fix in crawl wizard mode" 21:19:42 spurious fixes are the best fixe 21:19:44 ah, right 21:20:00 ugh, I think this is a quiet panic over decimals in SUBST 21:20:31 -!- hoody has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:25 Someone mentioned getting Forest entry mimic yesterday btw. 21:23:43 Wonder if there should be a special case in is_valid_mimic_feat or something. Not really familiar with mimics. 21:24:49 -!- morik___ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:25:51 Also the rod fix works, thanks. 21:30:23 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 21:31:01 pleh, this is definitely constrained in part by my lack of relevant knowledge, since inherently the thin corridor strands will have less shallow water 21:33:08 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:56 they'll be far away enough from the open areas for this to be undesirable, I guess 21:36:41 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:45 -!- Ququman has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:20 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:20 03tenofswords02 07* 0.14-a0-2589-gbe2acf0: Experimental, incomplete new Swamp layout 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 46+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be2acf020728 21:44:47 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 21:45:23 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2590-g6c4715d: Buff freezing wraiths 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6c4715db9ad6 21:45:23 03DracoOmega02 07* 0.14-a0-2591-gf77d330: Raise shadow wraith damage somewhat 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f77d330d3b3e 21:49:26 tenofswords: have you looked at my swamp layout? I would like to get it tested too 21:50:08 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: what about that one ice cave you mentioned in the commit message? 21:50:17 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: shouldn't it be nerfed a bit now? 21:50:24 HangedMan said he was working on that 21:50:28 <|amethyst> aha 21:51:46 03tenofswords02 07* 0.14-a0-2592-g262d02f: Adjust some vaults due to just-now wraith changes 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=262d02f4755e 21:51:56 buppy: honestly, I only looked at some of my old definitely-usable code due to recent interests and am otherwise still dedicated to the whole V:$ scenario 21:52:10 so, uh, "later", sorry 21:52:31 alright. I just don't want it to be forgotten 21:52:46 (57/69) 21:52:46 rip shadow wraiths in lab! 21:53:00 wheals: well clearly I will buff rakshasas and use them instead 21:53:11 make sure that they spawn on top of rods 21:53:15 or it will be no fun 21:53:33 or wands at the very least 21:53:35 way too much free loot for the vault, but a free wand on the other hand... 21:53:35 rakshasas in lab would be a good reason for me to start using crate.rc i think 21:53:53 there is a lot more to craterc than lab removal :( 21:54:01 in fact i stole that from chris 21:54:07 Aren't volcanos also gone? 21:54:09 i would just get used to the rest 21:54:11 oh wow also rip the d:8 eidolon 21:54:22 !lg . muwz 21:54:22 1. wheals the Conjurer (L11 MuWz), worshipper of Sif Muna, demolished by an eidolon on D:11 (due_megacathedral) on 2013-11-15 01:03:50, with 14220 points after 19704 turns and 0:57:55. 21:54:35 yes I have no idea how that stayed around so long 21:54:45 d:8 flayed ghost should at least be fun though 21:55:04 (i was a mummy so i actually airstriked it down to almost dead before it decided to melee instead of draining) 21:55:42 anyway, i am having a hard time visualizing the new swamp layout from the description, but it is not clear to me how this addresses the druid stuff exactly 21:55:57 it addresses pretty much everything besides druids 21:56:01 ok 21:56:10 i think i saw a sample of the new layout when you first proposed it here 21:56:11 sorry it isn't a perfect solution 21:56:54 i just mention it because my specific discussion had been about druids, and your response that the layout addressed most of these things led me to believe it was about druids 21:56:57 if it isn't, that's fine 21:57:21 my personal suggestion for what to do with druids is to de-spriggan them, leave everything else they have 21:57:42 had my mind on "general swamp" 21:58:04 druids are hardly the first thing complained about with swamp in general and everything 21:59:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:59:16 -!- tenofswords has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:23 -!- Ruble has quit [] 21:59:52 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 22:03:30 !lg * ikiller=~druid place=swamp 22:03:31 9. Azurite the Unseen (L16 VpEn), worshipper of Kikubaaqudgha, blasted by a spriggan druid (ray of light) on Swamp:3 on 2014-02-09 07:34:46, with 123222 points after 29235 turns and 3:07:51. 22:03:40 nine? that's a write off. 22:04:12 iikiller 22:05:33 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:43 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:06:58 OOD vault available on D8 by araganzar 22:11:16 gammafunk: it's not clear that druid's call is counting in that, since it's not a summon 22:11:33 there's one kill by something led by a spriggan druid, and that is another spriggan rider, so possibly a band? 22:11:49 even so i believe it's still the most dangerous monster in swamp since they were introduced 22:12:31 and i think i have argued pretty clearly why they are excessive 22:13:30 !lg * ikiller=~druid place=swamp 1 22:13:33 1/9. Edwar505 the Bludgeoner (L15 GrFi), worshipper of Okawaru, blasted by a spriggan druid (ray of light) on Swamp:2 on 2014-01-30 00:04:16, with 76857 points after 27747 turns and 1:47:29. 22:13:55 it's mostly awaken forest and a couple sunrays 22:13:59 !lg * place=swamp end>20140130 s=ikiller 22:14:01 130 games for * (place=swamp end>20140130): 10x an alligator, 9x a spriggan druid, 7x the 27-headed Lernaean hydra, 7x a seven-headed hydra, 6x a shambling mangrove, 6x a spriggan rider, 5x an eight-headed hydra, 5x a bog body, 4x, 4x a thorn lotus, 4x an enormous slime creature, 4x Aizul, 3x a six-headed hydra, 3x a swamp dragon, 3x a thorn hunter, 3x a giant leech, 3x a spiny frog, 3x a raven, 3... 22:15:05 .. how much more do i need to complain about spriggan druids, for example 22:15:15 they're not sirens, sure, but also sirens weren't fixed for a short time and then broken again, so that's hardly a fair point of comparison 22:23:22 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:25:13 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:26 -!- myrmidette has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:45 -!- ToastyP has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 26.0/20131205075310]] 22:37:49 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:59 -!- TerryDactyl has quit [] 22:53:40 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:54:26 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 22:54:51 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:59:56 dude sirens were fixed for 7 and a half versions 23:01:06 %git e5de0d2f 23:01:06 07DracoOmega02 * 0.14-a0-2183-ge5de0d2: Fix a few issues with siren movement behavior 10(3 weeks ago, 3 files, 23+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5de0d2f622b 23:03:10 -!- Zeor has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:04:10 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:10:01 oh, too bad tenofswords left 23:10:12 tabstorm is marked on new v:5 as a naga rightnow 23:27:46 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:59 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:19 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:33:47 -!- gbeene has quit [] 23:39:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:42:34 -!- HDA has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:45:15 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-2592-g262d02f (34) 23:50:48 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:51:06 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 23:54:11 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:49 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]