00:06:25 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-1876-g927fc3a (34) 00:07:45 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:06 -!- lobf_ has quit [Quit: lobf_] 00:11:49 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 00:14:36 -!- nixor has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:45 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:16:27 Unstable branch on crawl.beRotato.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1876-g927fc3a (34) 00:18:19 -!- araganzar has left ##crawl-dev 00:24:03 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:57 -!- AlphaQ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:30 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:01 -!- Krakhan has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:33:09 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:34:26 -!- klz has quit [Changing host] 00:46:22 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 00:46:51 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:50 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 00:49:15 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:52:49 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:41 this is giving me a headache 00:57:23 what are you working on? 00:57:42 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:27 -!- johlstei_ has joined ##crawl-dev 00:58:34 i had a mean idea 00:58:36 http://pastie.org/8631718 00:58:50 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:05 johnstein: a weighted summon spell, monster specific 01:00:48 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 01:01:07 sorta like, based on spell power, summon a different creature? 01:01:50 spell power actually wasnt even considered until you brought it up just now :) 01:02:15 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:26 -!- SwissStopwatch has joined ##crawl-dev 01:02:26 -!- johlstei has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:02:26 more like how to bind a certain spell set of summons to a specific creature based on how it was generated 01:03:41 oh ok 01:03:45 the worldbinder summons creatures from different sets but im having trouble figuring how to tie different sets to each instance of worldbinder since they can be different 01:03:59 oh, are you the one working on that? 01:04:11 aye 01:04:15 I remember |amethyst talking to someone about it and linking to the wiki. it sounded like a neat idea 01:04:33 yeah its pretty cool, just complex 01:05:05 the easy approach is lots of dumb redundant code but thats not the approach i want to take 01:05:31 I'm not really qualified to do any coding 01:05:46 spolier alert: neither am i :) 01:05:57 but I tried creating a farmer class last summer 01:06:08 if they dont like it they just wont accept it and i try again 01:06:12 started out worshiping Fedhas (with ------ piety) 01:06:24 added a Book of Homesteading that they started with 01:06:32 and a spell, Summon Flock 01:06:42 which summoned sheep, yak, or death yak based on spell power 01:06:54 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:06:56 but it wasn't really fun to play :P 01:07:11 summoning death yak would be cool 01:07:28 i can see right off the bat summoning a sheep at xl1 is a problem 01:07:36 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:07:39 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:07:40 well, the higher the spell power, the more you could summon 01:07:57 so if at a high level the RNG screwed you over, you got 2-4 sheep or something 01:08:13 yeah thats a good idea 01:08:16 which are basically like butterflies at that point 01:08:48 i havent quite figured out all the secret designs these guys want to stick to 01:09:22 there have been lots of times my ideas/code has been brickwalled, but i just move past it and try other stuff 01:09:57 no big deal though, i like being a part of the game 01:10:07 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:08 -!- twelwe____ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:19:08 -!- twelwe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:22:37 -!- tkappleton has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:01 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 01:25:58 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:37 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:39 -!- CyberSandwich has left ##crawl-dev 01:37:13 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 01:42:45 -!- KurzedMetal has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:57 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:47:03 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 01:51:20 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 01:53:44 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-1876-g927fc3a (34) 01:59:06 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 02:05:11 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:06:53 -!- agenius has quit [Client Quit] 02:09:13 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 02:13:57 -!- raskol has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:15:00 -!- TehIce has quit [] 02:16:58 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:19:03 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:07 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:27:00 -!- princelier has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:38:53 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: it got late huh] 02:40:24 -!- lobf_ has quit [Quit: lobf_] 02:45:45 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:49:44 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:49:50 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:50:07 -!- thetao has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:53:21 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:01:57 -!- Sgeo has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:07:10 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 03:14:56 -!- Cedor has joined ##crawl-dev 03:15:58 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:23:34 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:20 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 03:58:47 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 03:58:58 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:40 this sounds pretty good: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10525 04:02:47 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:03:01 -!- Grujah has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:04:17 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:05:56 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:05 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:17:09 -!- bhaak has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20:10 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 04:20:53 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:24:54 -!- bhaak has joined ##crawl-dev 04:25:57 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:48:42 -!- tali713 has joined ##crawl-dev 04:50:06 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 04:50:52 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Quit: Drowning in a sea of anguish] 04:51:47 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:56:27 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:24 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 05:04:35 -!- master_j has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:08:37 -!- jacobian has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:35:05 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:00 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:42:43 -!- tkappleton has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:49:02 Report of attack speed in @ does not take into account shield penalties by amic 05:59:51 -!- Quashie_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:01:27 -!- Cedor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:06:17 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 06:10:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:12:29 -!- bonghitz_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:13:32 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:17 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 06:20:43 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:23:45 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:35:15 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:33 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46:17 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:30 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:40 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 06:59:51 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 07:07:04 -!- Sgeo_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:08:55 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:10:56 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:40 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:12 -!- Isualin has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:30:12 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 07:33:38 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:43 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:36:12 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 07:45:53 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:57:38 kennysheep_vampire_church has a permarock for no reason 07:59:10 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:07:16 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1877-g7e21611: Recolour umbra to magenta 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e2161157ff1 08:07:16 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-1878-gef4b2d2: Remove accidental permarock (wheals) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef4b2d2b8ee6 08:07:31 03MarvinPA02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1876-g9db5db5: Don't consider OTR illuminating 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9db5db5078c7 08:07:45 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:08:25 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 08:10:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:16:03 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:20:02 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:20:21 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:20:32 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:55 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:22 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:17 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:31:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:34:00 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:37:03 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:54 -!- horus92 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:43:12 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:53 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 08:44:52 ugh, that volcano sucked 08:45:02 i was at low HP when i entered, so i rested for a while 08:45:13 You hear a sizzling splash. x10 08:45:15 etc 08:45:35 i wish it had indicated that was a risk 08:46:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:48:31 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:58:26 I almost typed "git pull" in here. :| 08:58:32 doh 09:02:34 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:02:59 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 09:04:59 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:38 -!- CampinSam has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 09:10:00 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:10:57 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:19:34 -!- araganzar has joined ##crawl-dev 09:23:03 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:26:12 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:39 -!- ystael_ has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:38:13 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:53:50 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 26.0/20131215102647]] 09:55:01 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:45 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:01:40 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:58 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 10:02:58 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:31 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:17:44 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:23 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 10:19:54 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:20:50 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:22:08 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1877-g83766a3: Split tracking of "illuminating" and "fiery" conducts. 10(2 minutes ago, 13 files, 116+ 32-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=83766a38d921 10:25:41 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 10:27:54 -!- sanka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:31:47 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:31:47 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 10:31:47 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:32:00 Grunt: is the hat of the high council disallowed just based on its flavour? 10:32:15 also i don't think it's actually disallowed, nor the plutonium sword 10:32:37 (in that the conduct never triggers) 10:33:15 It's mainly a flavour thing (which I'm not overly attached to); they're both supposed to be *glowing*, after all. 10:33:15 Grunt: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:33:55 yeah i thought it was a mistake because it no longer is actually mutagenic but then i checked the desc 10:34:20 generally i think if glowing is going to be the basis of a conduct then M_GLOWS_LIGHT probably needs looking at/removing from a bunch of monsters 10:34:27 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:34:44 <|amethyst> it already does because of the shadowy creature thing 10:34:50 I'm actually in the process of removing that particular check in favour of something a bit more believable; there are more than a few cases which need a different form of handling anyway. 10:35:03 (eyes of draining???) 10:35:15 ah ok 10:36:50 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:37:47 (ugh, writing this just reminds me how badly we need to fix special ability / breath weapon code) 10:39:39 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:39:39 also unrelatedly: i'm working on capping high level yred summons (so you can only get eg. 3 total bone dragons/profane servitors at once), is doing this with props a reasonable approach? or is there a better way 10:40:47 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1878-g73ab735: Refactor illuminating / fiery monster checks. 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 20+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=73ab735ae68e 10:40:57 like, at the moment i have props on the monsters in question marking them as high level servants, and a prop on the player counting the number you have 10:41:41 Do you need to iterate through all monsters to check for the former property, or do you have a cleaner way to find those? 10:41:54 If not, you could just check against the monster type and that it's a god gift. 10:42:20 <|amethyst> iterating through all monsters wouldn't work well because of off-level ones 10:42:21 -!- tsohg__ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:22 i don't think iterating through monsters works because your high level servant could be off the level 10:42:35 <|amethyst> would need to be props of the player if anything 10:42:41 ...right, I continue to forget that that's not how we generally do things <_< 10:42:43 <|amethyst> could extend the existing cap stuff 10:42:44 (these days) 10:42:47 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:48 right, so i have the player prop counting how many you have 10:42:50 <|amethyst> use negative values for non-spells 10:43:01 and then the monster prop marks them so that when they die or go hostile the player prop gets adjusted 10:43:17 -!- Mandevil has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:44:07 oh maybe a prop isn't necessary there and it could just check for monster type/god gift status when the monster dies/goes hostile 10:44:56 <|amethyst> (oh right, the existing cap stuff doesn't handle off-level monsters either) 10:45:20 yeah, that's conveniently solved by summons not following across levels :P 10:48:24 Experimental (shadow-god) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1878-g73ab735 10:56:09 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1879-gf86e49a: Fix a case where Shadow Form's extra status might not be displayed. 10(59 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f86e49a7d86d 10:56:11 -!- gnum has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:35 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:58:26 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:10:41 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1880-gc2a072b: A (hopefully very temporary) approach to Shadow Form player tiles. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2a072bace1f 11:10:42 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:46 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:15 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:57 -!- jacobian has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:15:32 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1878-gef4b2d2 (34) 11:18:05 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 11:19:11 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1881-gf3df222: Let shadow mimic actions target haste/invis at other monsters (78291). 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f3df222d4037 11:19:11 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1882-g2aae5ea: Don't shadow mimic self-aimed spells. 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2aae5eab82fe 11:19:43 * Grunt sends dpeg to the shadows. 11:19:46 Experimental (shadow-god) branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1882-g2aae5ea 11:22:37 Grunt: Here I am, the shadow man! 11:24:11 If anything, it's either mikee or myself that count as "the shadow man". <_< 11:24:12 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:00 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:26:04 Such is life: everyone wants to be in the shadows! 11:26:46 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 11:27:25 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:42 -!- Bloax has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:58 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:33:14 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 11:38:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:39:39 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:49 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 11:47:01 Is the monster_info struct for information on a type of creature (i.e., stone giants), or a specific creature (that particular stone giant)? 11:49:40 Crash when banished to the abyss from vaults by Siegurt 11:50:46 hmm, probably the second now that I think of it 11:51:51 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:52:01 monster_info is what you, the player, knows about a specific monster. 11:52:03 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 11:53:10 -!- Kromgart has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:30 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:53:46 Oh 11:54:08 Trying to make their target visible in lua so I can perhaps improve autofight 11:56:02 Basil: trying to make a monster's target visible to the player? 11:56:25 Or their foe, rather 11:56:40 That doesn't strike me as a good idea - it's potentially info-leaky. 11:56:47 -!- NomadJim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:52 Seems that autofight is a little annoying when a TSOite is tabbing around distracted creatures 11:57:29 You have an MB_DISTRACTED if you want to check for that. 11:57:46 Basil: in that case could you just check if god == tso && if target is distracted dont do it 11:57:47 -!- morik has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:57:48 -!- morik___ is now known as morik 11:57:50 grunt beat me to it 11:59:21 Basil: check out l_moninf.cc 11:59:38 Oh good 12:01:22 <|amethyst> note that MB_DISTRACTED doesn't cover paralysed or sleeping 12:01:38 <|amethyst> so you'd need to check both that and MB_STABBABLE 12:03:27 Thanks 12:04:00 <|amethyst> also, it doesn't know about the things that TSO doesn't mind you stabbing (other than plants, I think plants are never marked as either) 12:04:38 <|amethyst> so it might be worth exposing tso_unchivalric_attack_safe_monster 12:05:25 <|amethyst> it checks only intelligence, holiness, and known-shapeshifter-ness, so shouldn't leak anything on a mon-info 12:05:48 <|amethyst> except I guess you'd need MB_SHAPESHIFTER instead of m->is_shapeshifter() && (m->flags & MF_KNOWN_SHIFTER) 12:05:57 <|amethyst> for a monster_info 12:08:37 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:10:33 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:06 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:15 -!- xnavy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:48 hmm 12:12:05 Confused is seperate from distraction but also unchivalric 12:12:22 I will need to use unchivalric_attack, yes 12:12:42 <|amethyst> Basil: mon_looks_distracted handles confused 12:12:46 <|amethyst> return !m->friendly() 12:12:47 <|amethyst> && uat != UCAT_NO_ATTACK 12:12:47 <|amethyst> && uat != UCAT_PARALYSED 12:12:47 <|amethyst> && uat != UCAT_SLEEPING; 12:13:16 Oh huh 12:20:23 -!- buppy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:25:15 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:26:17 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:37:47 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: qqqqqqq] 12:45:06 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 12:47:38 -!- HappyPonyLand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:54:09 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 12:59:13 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 13:01:18 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1883-g0e7a2f5: Add Dithmengos altars to sprint maps as warranted. 10(81 seconds ago, 7 files, 24+ 17-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e7a2f5f6f87 13:01:31 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:04:18 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:20 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:06:08 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 13:10:06 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:08 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 13:20:59 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:21:24 -!- Brokkr has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:22:21 -!- CrazyArbalest has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:23:17 -!- HappyPonyLand has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:24:20 ontoclasm: are we gonna metal up vaults 13:24:25 or are we gonna metal up vaults 13:24:33 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 13:24:42 melt them down!! 13:25:30 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:28:18 !messages 13:28:19 No messages for TZer0. 13:30:28 !tell TZer0 IT'S ALL COMING CRASHING DOWN... no, wait, that's just my imagination. 13:30:28 Grunt: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 13:31:06 !messages 13:31:07 (1/1) Grunt said (38s ago): IT'S ALL COMING CRASHING DOWN... no, wait, that's just my imagination. 13:31:12 haha. 13:31:14 :P 13:32:18 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 13:33:42 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:00 -!- Tarragon has joined ##crawl-dev 13:44:31 -!- Cerpin has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:01 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/metal.png 13:48:07 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:48:51 -!- scummos__ has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:26 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:49:59 !send Grunt a new imagination 13:49:59 Sending a new imagination to Grunt. 13:51:35 * Grunt awkwardly throws an imagination. You hear a sizzling splash. 13:53:26 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:02:13 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:41 -!- RBrandon_ has quit [] 14:03:23 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:24 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:03:25 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:03:41 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/metalgrungy.png 14:10:32 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:19 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:12:48 what is the point of !send ? 14:13:00 Because can't you just do a /me or something instead for the same effect? 14:13:20 or something 14:16:01 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 14:16:06 TZer0: Fun. 14:17:17 TZer0: silliness, mostly 14:17:19 the real intent of !tell is for people who aren't online 14:17:30 geekosaur: we were talking about !send though 14:17:38 !send geekosaur silliness 14:17:38 Sending silliness to geekosaur. 14:17:39 oh, bleh 14:17:59 * geekosaur apparently has enugh silliness without it... 14:18:14 (need more sleep. not allowed. meh) 14:18:26 sending messages to people who are probably active is also pretty silly, of course, but the command is clearly intended for SRS BSNS 14:20:58 -!- Hypereia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:22:25 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:33 IRC is SRS BSNS 14:22:34 -!- Escalator_ is now known as Escalator 14:22:35 everyone knows that 14:24:14 !tell SamB how do you mean? 14:24:15 Eronarn: OK, I'll let samb know. 14:24:47 !messages 14:24:47 (1/1) Eronarn said (32s ago): how do you mean? 14:25:03 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:24 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 14:26:38 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 14:27:37 -!- djinni has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:37 -!- Bloax has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:38 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:27 -!- ivan`` has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:29:21 -!- Tarragon is now known as Basil 14:29:21 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:37 -!- Bloaxor has joined ##crawl-dev 14:31:23 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:34:29 -!- dck has joined ##crawl-dev 14:35:12 -!- CampinSam has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 14:38:12 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:39:35 -!- Kalir has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:09 -!- Bloaxzorro has joined ##crawl-dev 14:40:09 -!- Bloaxor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:20 MarvinPA: dactions provide a tool to track how many monsters meeting a particular rule are on other levels 14:42:10 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 14:42:10 I doubt that's the best way here, but not sure what you have on mind 14:45:51 <|amethyst> kilobyte: something like a summon cap that counts off-level monsters 14:46:30 <|amethyst> kilobyte: ideally without having to take pains to keep crap in sync; but excursions seem kind of like overkill 14:47:25 <|amethyst> and excursions would miss allies to were shafted to still-unvisited levels 14:47:41 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:47:50 <|amethyst> s/to/who/ 14:47:56 <|amethyst> or are otherwise in transit 14:47:57 -!- elliptic has joined ##crawl-dev 14:50:11 elliptic: Hi! 14:52:15 -!- djinni has joined ##crawl-dev 14:53:10 -!- ivan`` has joined ##crawl-dev 15:00:57 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:01:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:32 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 15:06:05 query_da_counter() 15:07:23 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:08:18 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 15:10:50 Say, is there any way I can improve on VS more? 15:11:21 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:49 I think I made the bite formula more sane, and the race seems less broken than the original proposal, 15:12:21 but I'm not sure if the lack of recent complaints means that they're perfect or people are too busy playing Derek. 15:12:42 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 15:14:51 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:18:20 -!- MP2E has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:49 -!- Zaba has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:27:28 -!- schistosomatic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:26 Basil: I don't like how the stat check reduces the presence of the bite a lot early on, and doesn't even do anything for Cheiguys. 15:29:33 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:00 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 15:30:00 Since early on is where G.Spirit really shines, and you can only sustain it by playing aggressively. 15:30:26 Except now you also get dice in there because who doesn't like that. 15:32:51 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:59 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:34:45 -!- melllvar has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:36:20 maybe i should draw an altar for doctor mangos 15:37:20 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/metalgrungy2.png 15:37:23 how does this look btw 15:37:46 walls look better 15:37:51 still not sold on the floor 15:38:07 I have no ideas for it. 15:38:18 well, you don't need to make a floor necessarily 15:38:27 vault floor is pretty good already 15:38:42 not shiny enough 15:38:47 hah 15:39:07 * tenofswords wishes that swamp or spider would get unique walls 15:39:10 for the walls, try breaking 50% of the block in half 15:39:16 to break up the pattern 15:39:25 spider has "unique" walls 15:39:35 <|amethyst> tenofswords: other than mangroves I imagine :) 15:39:45 i think swamp currently has uh 15:39:49 lab walls? 15:39:55 lair walls 15:40:01 just 'cause they were vaguely the right color? 15:40:14 mm 15:40:40 oh they are in fact lab walls I never even noticed 15:40:41 swamp has walls? 15:40:47 yes, in swamp:5 15:40:52 only in vaults 15:40:54 in one or two vaults 15:40:57 yeah 15:41:07 still 15:41:45 <|amethyst> I could imagine additional crumbling-edifice vaults outside of $ 15:42:14 how about a modified swamp layout generator that features some buildings? 15:42:19 -!- bovinius has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:42:52 like those geh generators 15:42:54 (and out of swamp:5 there are, like, eleven minivaults) 15:43:26 you could ruin_lair thing 15:43:34 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: rebooting] 15:43:57 could re-purpose that discarded decorative-ruined-buildings swamp serial vault of evilmike's somewhat easily 15:44:45 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/metalgrungy3.png 15:44:59 I also had a swamp layout from mangling together several layouts but never submitted it since I was unhappy with the corridors it'd sometimes make 15:45:02 -!- Admin1 is now known as bovinius 15:45:14 though it'd probably be fine restricted out of swamp:5 and on a low weight 15:45:16 -!- elliptic has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:45:23 It looks interesting, but I don't like it. 15:45:30 Bloaxzorro: well, i meant to mix them up 15:45:35 Since the two big blocks kind of give it that massive look. 15:45:59 like, 50% will be two big blocks, 40% will have one block broken, %10 have both 15:46:11 sometimes break the top, sometimes the bottom 15:46:27 Bloaxzorro: Oh about that stat thing 15:46:32 -!- bovinius has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:32 another thing that would help: vary the brightness/color of the blocks a bit 15:46:47 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:46:47 if you take a look at the catacombs wall tiles 15:46:51 you can see what i mean 15:47:00 I'm a little reluctant to touch that at the moment since it's common across all aux attacks, instead of the non-stat frequency that I altered for VS bite 15:47:07 but idk 15:47:23 (http://sprunge.us/DPSY) 15:47:51 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:48:13 antimagic biting is a unique VS feature however 15:48:23 ...zuh, why are these maps mangled 15:48:30 unlike all other auxillaries 15:48:55 unless you can get the mutation from normal mutations in which case it'd be by far the best mutation 15:49:19 http://pastie.org/pastes/8633787/text oh it was because the ~s I set as deep water aren't placing in sprunge or something 15:49:21 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:49:55 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:49:58 MUT_ANTIMAGIC_BITE is currently not eligible for random mutation. 15:50:44 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 15:50:57 -!- Nightdew has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:32 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:51:50 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:10 -!- HellTiger has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:31 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:53:11 Basil: have you considered making them drain via constriction rather than biting? 15:53:32 because, you know... vines 15:53:40 why not both 15:54:09 I have, yes 15:54:29 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:41 I figured that that might make Na and Op somewhat less unique to add another constrictor race to the lot 15:54:54 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:55:14 setting aside their not-melee specialties, of course 15:55:32 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:22 Well I really don't like having the RNG decide whether or not you get your MP. 15:56:31 and hit of antimagic 15:56:44 could you make it like PbP? 15:56:49 You're at the whims of the RNG in any case, since the bite has to do damage 15:56:54 yes 15:56:56 you gain mp by standing over dead guys? 15:57:03 the mp gained is 1dx 15:57:09 the damage is probably the same 15:57:24 and then the chance of the bite even happening is str+dex >= >1d<50 15:57:51 hmm 15:57:57 can you pass the test of the three dicerolls? 15:58:20 -!- scummos__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:58:23 that's pretty much how crawl does stuff 15:58:26 ontoclasm: That is pretty neat, yes 15:58:29 (the last of which doesn't affect the later-game as much as the early game which has already been nerfed a lot) 15:58:41 ??gold acquirement 15:58:42 gold acquirement[1/4]: Gives 10*(20+1d20+1d8*1d8*1d8) gold. (Min=220, Max=5520, Mean=1218, Median=880, Std=911) 15:58:51 Currently I repurposed oldaug, that would sort of repurpose pbp 15:59:02 (unless regen:3-2 and a big reduction in bite damage isn't a lot) 15:59:20 -!- tcjsavannah has quit [Quit: tcjsavannah] 15:59:32 Then again, it would run up against the problem that I had with VS0.1 16:00:05 in that it is sort of hard to balance book backgrounds vs melee backgrounds 16:00:26 Or rather, letting it benefit the former without making the latter insane 16:00:34 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 16:02:09 either way 16:02:18 i miss the version of vs i got 16:02:19 -!- Krakhan has quit [Changing host] 16:02:30 because of how aggressively you could play and actually get rewarded for it 16:02:53 and no amount of telling me to "get good" is going to change that 16:04:00 Basil: you could make VS do non-damaging constriction. or you could give them a constriction number in between octos (8) and nagas (1) 16:04:45 another option: you gain mp regen based on the number of enemies you can see 16:04:58 trivials don't count or it's based on hd or something 16:05:05 and three constrictors seems fine anyways, consider the number of races with claws/hooves/horns/etc. 16:05:05 to prevent dragging rats aroun 16:05:07 d* 16:07:32 -!- tenofswords has left ##crawl-dev 16:07:43 Alright, VS_current goes into trunk and VS_constrict gets an experimental branch 16:07:49 Snake (0/5) Lair:4 16:07:51 Swamp: Lair:3-6 Shoals: Lair:3-6 Spider: Lair:3-6 16:07:55 rast: Mimics. 16:08:05 shouldn't the game know that there is no spider possible? 16:08:20 -!- LexAckson has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:25 It should, yes 16:08:26 hm 16:08:27 Basil: i dont think thats it 16:08:28 but it doesn't. 16:08:36 well once i find the swamp stairs 16:08:45 it will know that there is no more shoals or spider 16:09:19 Somewhat more seriously though, I'd have to think a little longer on constrict vs pbp vs manavamp since only one can be tested at a time 16:10:24 some constricting effect would be a different approach and since it could be damageless it'd be a means to make MP restoration more reliable 16:10:37 without running into problems with faster brands 16:10:41 *weapons 16:10:58 Constrict keys off of aut, right? 16:11:16 I've never checked. 16:11:21 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:28 I'm not sure MP per enemies in sight would work very well 16:12:03 since currently the MP restoration mean is in direct conflict with the option of walking away to regenerate fast regen offers 16:12:53 and making it simply happen for enemies in sight would not only no have that, but encourage walking away in situations where the current bite is a relevant option 16:16:48 -!- Krakhan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:40 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:40 Suggestion for a quote for tomahawk, from The Last of the Mohicans: "Let them draw the sharpest knife, and whirl the swiftest tomahawk, for their bitterest enemy is in their hands." 16:23:49 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: rebooting] 16:25:37 BlastHardcheese: in context, or just that? 16:27:38 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:27:48 Well there's plenty more where that came from; Cooper is rather infamous for his purple prose. I assumed you wouldn't want a huge paragraph 16:30:54 former best selling novel in the united states 16:31:01 wonder what it is now; harry potter maybe 16:32:06 fifty shades 16:32:51 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1879-g9e9b3b7: Revert "A temple with a massive amount of doodads and decor." 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9e9b3b73c1ed 16:32:51 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1880-g0742851: A quote for "tomahawk" (BlastHardCheese). 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=07428517218c 16:32:53 Sounds like a pretty shady list then. 16:33:23 (rip massivetemple) 16:33:56 http://pastie.org/8631718 16:34:00 ontoclasm: Breaking up the wall kind of goes against what I really like about the texture. 16:34:02 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:34:11 Which is that it looks massive and huge. 16:34:30 * ontoclasm shrugs 16:34:41 you could some of the tiles be one huge block 16:34:42 Hm, I wonder if I should poke some of the temple layouts if we're going above 15 temple gods. 16:35:06 even no_rtele_into is not needed, it's not like you lack a way out :p 16:35:30 Grunt: poke in or poke out? 16:35:42 -!- Brokkr has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:52 dpeg: poke in the manner that the branch currently pokes Sprint maps. 16:35:53 basically you're gonna have to have some sort of variation to the walls, otherwise it hurts the eyes 16:36:16 ...or I could do a one-off 16 altar layout; that would be easy <_< 16:36:34 I don't really know if it's necessary, though. 16:36:35 Grunt: all current temples (with <15 altars) will work just fine!? It's true that having some full temples would be nice, but we should just add those, imo. 16:36:36 27-altar temple 16:36:52 ontoclasm: will take some years, but we'll get there =) 16:36:56 ontoclasm: the variation can be relatively minor; still, these walls don't work that well without their floors, it's just that they would require more contrast 16:37:20 if not for the shadows, you wouldn't be able to tell the floor from the wall at all 16:37:51 -!- ahahaha has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:37:52 27 gods is doable: 26 letters of the alphabet + "1" for TSO 16:38:04 kilobyte: I know! 16:38:34 kilobyte, I'm mainly thinking of this right now from the perspective of having a god in a branch that may make it to trunk in the near future. 16:39:06 Grunt: no need to rush rearranging the temples 16:39:15 I'm not planning on *rearranging* anything, necessarily. 16:39:37 In fact, I don't necessarily need to do anything at all in that respect; it would just mean we would be guaranteeing at least one overflow altar. 16:40:05 one problem: if we make 16-god temples, then Ditty gets postponed intul after 0.14, there will be problems with those layouts 16:40:36 That's also true of >16 god temples even if Dith does make it in. 16:41:03 ontoclasm: that tileset makes me unable to stop thinking about Arkanoid :p 16:41:19 fr: a 19 god temple 16:41:28 with Beogh, Jiyva and Lucy 16:41:35 That said, we could disable the relevant layouts, or we could probably come up with a code fix for trying to ue a temple layout with more gods that can currently place there. 16:41:41 s/that/than/ 16:44:16 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:48:50 kilobyte: back then, I wondered about a "thematic" temple, where the three good gods sit together in an alcove etc.... then I scrapped that idea, was too graphical for me 16:49:21 dpeg, we can do that readily with overflow altars these days :) 16:50:05 (I even appropriated a couple of vaults with that basic design to be used for that purpose back when I was tinkering with this functionality.) 16:52:00 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/n/crawl/murder.png allow me to slay your eyes 16:52:03 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:53:24 s/slay/murder/ 16:53:50 I feel like I'm looking at a shelf of lead bars or something. 16:56:13 pretty shiny for lead 16:58:32 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:58:49 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Using leafChat 2] 17:00:07 -!- Chris7 has quit [] 17:00:19 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:00:35 BlastHardcheese: did you use any randomness, or just a 1x2 texture? 17:00:53 i assume that's pointed at me 17:00:58 the variants don't really show up 17:01:04 yeah, sorry, bad tab 17:01:12 doh 17:01:13 -!- Bloaxzorro is now known as Bloax 17:01:16 (with apologies to |amethyst) 17:01:31 the differences are subtle, while those white highlights are strong 17:01:51 It's just a 2x2 texture repeated again and again. 17:02:03 If anything the biggest thing to randomize is the strength of those highlights. 17:02:38 well, tell me how discussing Arkanoid based tiles can be complete without the Revenge of Doh? :þ 17:02:54 -!- ground4 has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:02:59 -!- ground4_ is now known as ground4 17:03:45 I figured someone would bring that up eventually <3 17:04:17 * dpeg smells lots of wasted youths. :) 17:04:35 oh and dpeg 17:04:44 remind me to discuss shop prices 17:04:44 yes? 17:04:51 i thought that was "dpeg smells like wasted youths" 17:05:08 !tell Bloax We really need to discuss shop prices. It's urgent! 17:05:08 dpeg: OK, I'll let bloax know. 17:05:10 a cloud of evaporating alcohol and marijuana smoke drifting out of dpeg's room 17:05:19 We removed evaporation, didn't we? <_< 17:05:20 mikee_: no marijuana in the GDR 17:05:22 you're right it's urgent 17:05:23 Bloax: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 17:05:41 and not much Arkanoid either, I was a poor sob 17:05:43 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:06:13 i - the +13,+4 demon blade "Leech" {vamp, rN+ EV-1 Str-1 Dex-1 Int-1} 9194 gold is pretty bad 17:06:25 there's always javanoid for those who missed out 17:06:26 I've seen Leech for >10k gold before. 17:06:28 Bloax: Shopkeepers are known to be greedy scoundrels. 17:06:39 greediness is one thing 17:06:53 but unrealistic prices are less than pointless 17:07:12 yes, of course 17:07:18 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:07:50 because things that get ridiculous prices are prime candidates for making the player spend their entire capital on getting 17:07:59 +them 17:08:31 instead of buying all those other minor things for 600 gold and walk off forever 17:09:43 The short story is that nothing should be priced above 3500 gold, since that's about how much you'll have after clearing Lair+Branches/Orc/Vaults. 17:09:54 Really the thing I find weird about shops is that they basically are just floor loot except with an arbitrary system/limit to determine which of them you can actually get 17:09:58 And even then that's dangerous, since the item in question may very well end up obsoleted. 17:10:08 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 17:10:34 the pricing formula just isn't very intelligent i think 17:10:52 If they're supposed to have some other function, like guaranteeing a wider selection of gear but restricting the amount the player can get, it doesn't do that very well 17:11:06 like it was changed to make 'slaying' much more expensive; ergo 9k leech because of its accuracy 17:11:10 Because you just end up buying everything useful and the money to do this pretty much always exists 17:11:23 isn't accuracy slaying more pricey than damage slaying 17:11:48 SwissStopwatch: I pretty often see stuff in shops I might want but don't have the money for 17:11:49 No; they're valued identically. 17:12:02 it's not like I can buy every single potion, ring, wand, runed armour, etc. that I see 17:12:11 I think I recall seeing Lear's Hauberk for like 13k. 17:12:18 rings of slaying are way too expensive to ever consider buying currently, I'd say the balancing was massively overdone there 17:12:42 kilobyte: People still pay the price for them. 17:12:42 Well ignoring the wands and armours goes a long way towards buying everything else 17:12:44 I've bought rings of slaying previously. 17:12:49 Although usually in the ~1.6k range. 17:12:49 SwissStopwatch: shops have an id function, a resource funtion, and sometimes a strategic function. I think that's alright. It could be undoubtedly better -- make proposals! 17:13:04 If it's 3k it's basically never worth it. 17:13:05 OK, you're actually right about the ID function at least 17:13:17 and I sort of forgot about that... because scrolls of ID 17:13:26 I almost never have the gold to buy everything I want in a shop, never mind the sorta useful stuff I don't particularly need 17:13:35 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 17:13:45 Which are definitely common enough that sometimes buying bad potions from a shop is convenient but unless those bad potions show up early probably noit that important 17:14:09 SwissStopwatch: for example, we increased prices for bad items slightly, and I think that's much better now 17:14:17 they're great for identifying things like scrolls of blinking and potions of might early 17:14:25 * kilobyte always buys un-ided potions and scrolls. At 22-26 gold, that's worth buying blindly, compared to identified junk. 17:14:29 because those things can and most likely will save your ass 17:14:37 kilobyte: yes, those are too cheap :) 17:14:39 also bad potions/scrolls 17:14:43 Yes, it's worth buying them, it's just... not -that- important 17:14:45 which you can buy for cheaper than ID 17:15:04 But you'll never be short on gold for something more important if you do that 17:15:22 Usually because shops are very rare outside of Orc:4. 17:15:30 Well they're not that rare 17:15:30 -!- Nightdew has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:44 orc:4 shops are rare when you consider how many are useless or mimics 17:15:46 Some games you will not have that many but rare is definitely not the right word 17:16:00 their frequency is more or less fine i think 17:16:18 can be exciting to get an early shop 17:16:29 there was a time, not so long ago, when O:4 had no guaranteed shops 17:16:36 mikee_: Welcome to Bourbon's Gourmet Boutique! 17:16:57 the important thing is that shop mimics and portal mimics need to go 17:16:59 can we make this about that 17:17:16 crawl is enough about disappointment already 17:17:20 Anyway probably I have two vague proposals for shop pricing, one of them is just fix the insane prices on certain basetypes and make weapon enchant factored more sanely 17:17:36 I often see people wandering around with thousands of gold with nothing to spend it on. 17:17:41 Which makes me do the sadface. 17:17:57 The other would be to make the focus on shops be more about giving players a very large selection of useful gear to choose from, but not actually give them the money to buy all that much of it 17:17:59 would individually setting price ranges for fixedarts make any sense 17:18:13 Definitely. 17:18:14 Also I guess randart pricing is insane 17:18:15 since i guess some of them have some pretty wacko values 17:19:34 SwissStopwatch: Useful gear tends to be pretty expensive, unless you stumbled upon a lucky antique shop. So I guess raising the price of these unidentified goodies could help with that. 17:19:52 Boots of running 200 gold 17:20:06 Glowing boots - 46 gold 17:20:06 Bloax: well a lot of useful gear really is very cheap, like what Basil just said 17:20:11 man, diving into the code is always so disorienting to me 17:20:13 You finish putting on the +2 Boots of Running 17:20:25 Book of Air 416 gold 17:20:28 I think that prices of potions, scrolls and books are decent. Wands too, but not charges (too cheap). 17:20:36 also excellent randart rings/amulets tend to be available for far less than what their value feels like it should be 17:20:37 Book of Burglary 1200 gold 17:20:37 dpeg: Depends on the wand. 17:20:47 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:55 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:20:56 i.e. why the hell is that swiftbook so expensive 17:20:58 11 Pops of paralysis tends to go for a pretty hefty price. 17:21:10 anyway, if you have specific numbers in mind, put them on the wiki or forum or mail me 17:21:14 dpeg: I think wand charges tend to be priced fairly in line with scrolls of recharging 17:21:16 ??book of burglary 17:21:16 book of burglary[1/1]: Apportation, Swiftness, Passwall, Passage of Golubria, Lee's Rapid Deconstruction, Darkness 17:21:25 the uhm 17:21:27 this isn't exactly a bad book 17:21:32 -!- OCTOTROG has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:32 good wands are really really cheap 17:21:33 and it has a level 7/8 hex (I forget) 17:21:37 for how good they are 17:21:42 ontoclasm: yes 17:21:43 Anyway I understand this sort of proposal is fairly useless without numbers, I think what I had in mind though was stuff along the lines of, say 17:21:45 i got a tele wand for like 300g 17:21:49 three-charge telewands usually go for about 300, yes 17:21:59 which is a bargain 17:22:00 wand of heal wounds is fairly likely to show up in a shop but is usually way underpriced 17:22:10 Preserv is also pretty cheap 17:22:11 Make it show up more but also make it cost something like 3000 gold 17:22:16 maybe cheaper than "cons? 17:22:28 Basil: but preservation is the only cloak you can wear 17:22:36 unless you want to lose 5 scrolls and potions per combat turn 17:22:55 -!- moodyqc has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:23:15 Flash is also nice 17:23:29 Basil: http://pastebin.com/tBPSucYf Flash in Action 17:24:12 this doesn't happen with preservation 17:24:29 thus every other cloak is useless 17:24:34 3000 gold is obviously a number I just made up with very little thought but the idea is that the shops should be a good way to pick up one or two items you really really want but didn't find, but they shouldn't be a good place to get lucky and find some ridiculous AC +4 rF++ rElec Int +5 Dam +6 ring that the shopkeeper decided is really only worth about 1200 or something 17:24:47 of course antique shops should still be about getting lucky 17:24:51 /Healing is worth around 1600 gold if you'd ask me. 17:25:06 The charges shouldn't really count much on it. 17:25:23 Since unless you're some kind of strange person you'd definitely make it a top recharge priority. 17:25:55 well yes but sometimes you will have more or fewer scrolls of recharge depending on what happens to be in a game 17:26:05 -!- Brannock has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:21 -!- Brannock has joined ##crawl-dev 17:26:39 and thus finding a wand with 2 charges would be nice but still ess good than one with 7. If you have 10 recharging maybe you don't care but if you have about 2 it is a real difference, especially if you're short on other important wand charges 17:27:25 to pull a formula out of my head, i'd say the three good wands should have a base cost around 1200+200n 17:27:31 where n is the number of charges 17:27:46 ontoclasm: sounds good to me 17:27:50 Well the reason I'm saying the charges shouldn't affect their price much is because ~1600 is already a huge blow to your money pool. 17:27:53 maybe that's a bit high, but a hw wand is basically the best item in the game 17:28:06 the three top tier wands are strategical items, it's alright to save a long time for those 17:28:30 200n is definitely overvaluing charges compared to scroll of recharging, but the rough price you would end up paying sounds about right 17:28:30 otoh, it is good if doing Orc:1-3 is enough to get you that one spellbook from the book shop 17:28:42 200n is kind of overkill if you are so fortunate as to get one with 8 or 9 charges 17:28:47 I would go ahead and say that maybe telewand should be valued slightly less even if it is also very important 17:28:58 in which case enjoy paying 2800 gold 17:29:13 2800 gold doesn't sound unreasonable to me! 17:29:16 (that's post-vaults material) 17:29:24 (unless you got lucky) 17:29:37 prices are randomised anyway, and the interesting part is: hold out for a floor/cheaper shop wand, or just invest 17:29:40 Probably the one thing with this sort of change is that gold acquirement would need to be accounted for too 17:29:50 also, with very expensive stock, gold acquirement becomes an option 17:30:04 -!- Unflexed has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:30:08 I can't see how gold acquirement becoming an option is a negative thing. :p 17:30:16 It already is a fairly good option if you get an expensive good item early 17:30:30 Since as mentioned currently there's more of an overflow of money. 17:30:33 Possibly it would end up being a little too useful compared to other acq 17:30:47 It's not shy of giving you ~800 gold. 17:30:57 sure, or less sometimes 17:31:02 ??gold acquirement[$ 17:31:02 gold acquirement[4/4]: [21:34] p - a scroll labeled PILE CA SHE [21:35] ... pile cashe scroll was acquirement 17:31:05 Which wouldn't be much if the prices generally are bumped up a bit. 17:31:10 ??gold acquirement[-2 17:31:10 gold acquirement[3/4]: I bought a scroll of acquirement for 364 gold and acquired 350 gold 17:31:30 I mean, the advantage isn't that it is overwhelmingly powerful so much as it is that is quite likely to be useful compared to some other acquirements 17:31:45 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:31:53 Weapon acquirement is usually most reliable of the options. 17:32:04 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-1881-g4fe1826: Don't use terse descriptions for weapons in fsim output file. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4fe1826d6b47 17:32:04 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-1882-g1d7ebc0: Don't warn about fsim_kit possibly burdening the player in fsim doc. 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d7ebc0e0656 17:32:04 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-1883-g82ebfd5: Fix a typo. 10(9 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=82ebfd5c76a5 17:32:04 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-1884-g9febb93: New option: fsim_csv 10(3 minutes ago, 4 files, 35+ 20-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9febb93398b4 17:32:14 since it tends to give you things you wouldn't find otherwise 17:32:20 SwissStopwatch: but only if you have something to buy, and there is still an opportunity cost associated to it (you could get not enough money, and in the long run you'd collect enough gold from the floor) 17:32:51 and things like claymores aren't found very often even in shops 17:33:01 gold acquirement is the most reliable because it always gives you gold! 17:33:11 Zannick: Wrong. 17:33:17 Food acquirement is the most solid one. 17:33:24 what, do you get silver sometimes? 17:33:39 A quart of wheat 17:33:41 The thing is when you acquire gold you are definitely doing it because you know you will want more gold, and also you will at least always get a mildly helpful amound out of it 17:33:51 sometimes the difference between 1000 and 3000 is no difference 17:34:20 acquiring gold also implies that you have found things to buy before you do so 17:34:29 * dpeg just realises that one of the gold uses is no more (ziggurats) ==> have to resort to Reverse Alchemy or gold god 17:34:38 Yes - it's kind of unique in that you know exactly what you want when you do it 17:34:44 glod! 17:34:50 You sort of do with other ones, of course, but there's no guarantee 17:34:57 and acquiring something earlier than when you find the shops is usually a good idea 17:35:10 since it can very much help your out a lot 17:35:10 maybe I want a ring of protection from fire when I acquire jewel but it's highly unlikely I will get one in normal circumstances 17:35:15 you* 17:35:22 Grunt: erm, I happen to have a pretty solid proposal for a gold god in the drawer *whistles* 17:35:23 maybe I want a Haste book when I acquire book but same deal 17:35:34 (Probably more likely to get haste from acquire wand...) 17:35:59 (Well wands are biased towards being good, which doesn't seem the case with either books or jewels.) 17:35:59 gotta work, but I have modified prices before and am ready to discuss and change more... just send me number 17:36:02 s 17:36:09 -!- Garhauk has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:36:40 Probably need to start with a list of "items that currently have ridiculous prices that need to change", maybe I should write that up tonight 17:36:54 !send dpeg 2 17:36:55 Sending 2 to dpeg. 17:38:21 * dpeg has a hunch that SwissStopwatch thinks too player-centric. Too cheap is bad, too! 17:38:21 * SwissStopwatch looks for a shortwave radio to get numbers from 17:38:37 would you kindly implement a shortwave radio 17:38:39 -!- nicolae- has joined ##crawl-dev 17:38:41 Well ridiculous means too cheap in several of these cases 17:38:49 nicolae-: awesome reaction on Burzum 17:38:55 SwissStopwatch: good! 17:39:04 Randart rings/amulets are the most common instance of this and that might be a harder one to deal with 17:39:12 Well maybe wands are a more common one actually 17:39:17 also ego robes 17:39:20 SwissStopwatch: yes, let's just collect examples of these, but start with simpler stuff 17:39:36 "The word "burzum" means "darkness" in the Black Speech, a fictional language crafted by J. R. R. Tolkien." 17:40:01 shopping.cc is pretty easy to follow as far as crawl source goes iirc so i imagine it's easy enough to tweak stuff and test 17:40:23 MarvinPA: yes, that's why I could change shop prices in the past! 17:40:44 Bloax: yes. It is also the name of Norwegian guy who is all of kinds of sick... someone suggested Burzum for a "god of insane killers". 17:41:05 That's just Varg's one-man-band. 17:41:19 okay, yes, technically, 17:41:37 (I read the articles about Varg Vikernes and Mayhem out of curiosity and boredom.) 17:41:44 (it's quite something) 17:41:50 and the guy didn't even suggest any god powers either, which is like, come on man 17:41:51 -!- dck has left ##crawl-dev 17:41:56 Bloax: Hitler was drawing water colours too. 17:41:58 -!- dck has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:42:13 -!- syllogism has quit [] 17:42:29 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:42:45 Bloax: I listen to this shit, but not to Burzum, of course. Misanthophy and misery, fine with me. Neonazi bullshit never. 17:43:22 i don't think neonazis burn churches 17:44:04 the best way to describe said person is "apeshit crazy" 17:44:05 varg had some extracurricular activities 17:44:11 yeah 17:44:35 anyway, shopping.cc. let's make everything free imo 17:45:14 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:45:20 let's make the game a 1d1000 diceroll about whether you win or not 17:45:28 you win on 527 17:45:32 agreed 17:45:36 hey, whoa, spoiler alert! 17:45:43 dang 17:45:43 i want to discover that 527 is a win on my own 17:45:48 <|amethyst> hey, I'll be better at crawl! 17:45:51 <|amethyst> !lg . /won 17:45:52 2/8251 games for |amethyst: N=2/8251 (0.02%) 17:45:55 what's wrong with listening to Burzum? I don't even recall any nazi or such references in any lyrics. 17:45:58 it should be obvious to the player that 527 is a win 17:46:03 he shouldn't have to be expected to look it up 17:46:20 (the actual winner number is 27) 17:46:23 <|amethyst> make it 207 17:46:29 <|amethyst> because that looks like "ZOT" 17:46:36 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:37 make the number that you have to win also chosen by 1d1000 17:46:50 that the guy is insane doesn't mean his music is bad 17:47:08 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1884-g9cdec30: Properly punish Dith followers for wearing glowy/fiery equipment. 10(62 seconds ago, 2 files, 23+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9cdec3053732 17:47:16 <|amethyst> nicolae-: whoa, hold up there Einstein, are we supposed to need a spreadsheet to play? 17:47:20 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 17:47:38 Dun Tarrach 17:48:05 if 1d1000 == 1d1000 then if 1d2 == 2 then goto win else goto death 17:48:09 |amethyst: yes, just implement crawl in a spreadsheet 17:48:30 how come? 17:49:31 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:50:02 deathmangoes 17:50:14 the anti-fedhas 17:50:20 chokowaru 17:50:22 summons deathmangoes, hellpapayas 17:50:35 morningstarfruit 17:50:49 -!- ig0rbit has quit [Client Quit] 17:50:55 yredlemonul 17:51:09 kiwibaaqudgha 17:51:50 kiwibaaqudgha 17:52:16 "They [Christians] must feel that there is a dark, evil power present that they have to fight, which…will make them more extreme. We also believe that when a church burns it's not only Christians who suffer, but people in general. Imagine a beautiful old stave church...what happens when it burns? The Christians feel despair, God's house is destroyed and ordinary people will suffer from grief because 17:52:16 something beautiful was destroyed. So you end up spreading grief and despair, which is a good thing." 17:52:20 gee what am i even reading 17:53:59 Bloax: sanity is for the weak 17:54:06 jiyva jujubes 17:54:07 this is your bog-standard black metal madness, he turned into a full-fledged nazi later (and his writing have impact on the scenes in Europe and the US) 17:54:52 nemelons 17:55:09 beorange 17:55:22 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:45 sif banana 17:55:47 -!- moodyqc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:55:49 applevilon 17:55:53 Troranges 17:56:08 <|amethyst> Chokobriados 17:56:38 Strawberaru 17:57:01 xomegranate 17:57:22 Sultanazari 17:57:46 -!- ayutzia has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:58:35 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 17:59:19 <|amethyst> Ashcan Sari 18:01:20 Xomango 18:01:36 also how could you forget Chokowaru 18:01:54 we mentioned chokowaru ten minutes ago! 18:01:54 chokowaru 18:02:15 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:02:22 [00:56:40] Strawberaru and strawberrywaru too 18:02:24 oh 18:02:31 welp 18:02:44 chokowaru more like JOKEowaru 18:03:12 oh damn i just remembered i actually came in the channel for a reason: what's the easiest way to test temple vaults? 18:03:29 WEIGHT: 999999999999 18:03:30 ? 18:03:39 <|amethyst> does it go that high? 18:03:46 no because the god number per temple kicks in 18:03:57 just use &L who cares about temple function 18:03:58 doesn't it pick the temple vault at game start, though, unlike in other places 18:04:06 true 18:04:06 it picks the number of gods in the temple 18:04:13 why is this important 18:04:18 unless you plan on adding another god 18:04:31 i'm going to add like eighty gods actually 18:04:34 |amethyst: no, but this number happens to wrap around to something positive and big 18:04:39 how good will they be 18:04:44 fr an ecumenical temple map with exactly one altar 18:05:07 and it will be to beogh 18:05:14 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:05:25 make sure it's obnoxiously long and with plenty of dead ends 18:05:25 oops wrong, I tried it on unsigned. It's negative. 18:05:28 jiyva 18:05:35 temple of slime 18:05:39 * tenofswords faintly grins at upcoming pay-off 18:06:35 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 18:10:05 hrm no, stepping next to multiple slime walls can one-shot some newbies 18:10:21 it's a beoghberinth 18:10:32 that'll teach 'em to stand next to the walls and try new things 18:10:34 * kilobyte wanted to implement ontoclasm's idea :p 18:10:35 * Sequell also wanted to implement ontoclasm's idea :p 18:10:55 * kilobyte spanks the stupid bot. 18:11:02 speaking of stupid 18:11:07 i still want my iron leather 18:11:18 what, like, made from iron troll skin 18:11:28 yes 18:12:37 because iron and leather go fine together 18:12:47 !learn add bone_dragon_armour Armour made from a bone dragon's hide. AC 0, EV 0, weight 0. Doesn't take an inventory slot! 18:12:48 bone dragon armour[1/1]: Armour made from a bone dragon's hide. AC 0, EV 0, weight 0. Doesn't take an inventory slot! 18:13:02 we have moon troll leather armour, why not iron troll leather armour 18:13:23 like regular troll leather armour but like +10 enchantment 18:13:55 needs higher ER 18:14:05 is 12 a good number 18:14:12 45 evp 18:14:59 14 / 20 "who needs cpa anyways" 18:15:08 I still want shadow dragon armour 18:15:13 just so there's more SDAs 18:15:35 rename quicksilver dragon to silver dragon and give them a hide armour 18:15:42 so that there may be even more SDAs 18:15:45 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:15:58 and we'll always assume they're talking about steam 18:16:04 ice dragon -> snow dragon 18:16:22 fire dragon -> smoldering dragon 18:16:23 -!- Amy|Sonata has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:16:35 gold dragon -> shiny dragon 18:16:39 -!- DracoOmega has joined ##crawl-dev 18:16:46 good evening 18:16:50 Evening 18:16:55 meow! 18:17:44 I wanted to say that HangedMan has discussed his Forest proposal with me a fair bit, and I honestly think that it is a better use of some of the existing assets from Forest for several reasons - so much so that I am willing to put in the necessary work to retheme, nerf, and adjust populations to try and make it work. 18:18:38 DracoOmega: oh! Many thanks for that offer. 18:18:40 hello DracoOmega 18:18:45 Hi 18:18:46 <|amethyst> DracoOmega, welcome home! 18:18:48 long time no see 18:19:04 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:19:17 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:19:33 DracoOmega: yes, HangedMan made that very elaborate wiki page... lots of thought went into that, it's plain to see 18:19:42 Zaba: hello! 18:19:49 and gnight 18:19:56 damn it guys you are ruining me 18:19:59 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 18:20:08 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 18:20:37 I'd say most of those monsters make little sense outside Forest 18:21:03 -!- Morphy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:21:07 Well, Swamp has about as many trees as Forest does 18:21:09 They're just in water 18:21:25 kilobyte: not necessarily... treants could be mangrove flavoured (or not even needed) 18:21:26 I'd rename treants to Shambling Mangrove or something :P 18:21:31 shamblegrove 18:21:32 the page treats all forest monsters in depth 18:21:33 <|amethyst> the aquatic plants seem perfect for swamp 18:21:42 they could be repurposed elsewhere, but that proposal tried to force them into random branches seemingly based on the idea "what would be the best place for X if we absolutely had to keep it", rather than "would adding X improve this branch?" 18:21:43 <|amethyst> "treant" is kind of a silly name anyway 18:22:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: several things are dropped in the proposal 18:22:07 |amethyst: yes, but bikeshed alert 18:22:07 kilobyte: That's not how it reads to me, and the proposal explicitly cuts some things entirely 18:22:09 yeah 18:22:12 sadly not treants 18:22:35 replace treants with mangrove mimics 18:22:41 <|amethyst> If they don't work out in the new branches, we'll hear about it and see it, and can remove them then 18:22:47 <|amethyst> on a case-by-case basis 18:22:48 water nymphs, spirit wolves, treants, badsprings are stuff that I'd better place in /dev/null 18:22:50 So it seems less to me about "Let's make sure every Forest thing has a home" and more "What apparent gaps are there in some other branches and which of this stuff can potentially help fill it?" 18:23:17 DracoOmega: several people said they'd rather keep Forest as a branch in trunk... but given that there's no plan for that, and otoh a plan for how to improve other branches based off Forest (plus you willing to help migrate), I supported that proposal 18:23:18 Well, spirit wolves were on the chopping block here. Nymphs effectively are very nearly. Wellsprings are not mentioned either way. 18:23:46 Yes, I've followed some of the discussion (and talked it over with HangedMan at length) 18:24:13 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 18:24:33 My person thoughts are that while the idea of a 'good' Forest branch are fine, this seems like a more pragmatic avenue that doesn't rely on someone at some point in the future coming up with some other larger vision for things and then executing it 18:24:51 It's been fairly widely said that Swamp is lacking in notable Swamp-specific things in several slots on its difficulty list 18:24:56 Same with shallow Shoals populations 18:25:02 And Depths can definitely use more variety in some ways 18:25:04 how long did Shoals take until someone end up finishing it up? 18:25:06 kilobyte: If we give DracoOmega some credit (and we should!), then it should be alright to try out adapted Forest monsters in Lair, Swamp etc. As |amethyst says, we can always cut later, if need be, but I have a hunch it'll work: not so many new mechanics at once. 18:25:27 kilobyte: yes, but Haran always felt responsible for Shoals. 18:25:30 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:30 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 18:25:30 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:25:36 kilobyte: Well, I think Shoals has a number of inherant advantages that allow it to work 18:25:44 Which Forest's position does not 18:25:48 aside for problematic monsters, the Forest works pretty nicely 18:25:59 DracoOmega made Forest, and when he now offers to keep his work relevant, only putting it elsewhere, then that's great imo. 18:26:04 It's in a really awkward place of hard and optional and a lot of people don't want to set foot in it anyway. And this makes it awkward to balance on top of it. 18:26:17 And also fewer people see it, for that matter 18:26:34 the problem is not "is this branch fun?" but "do players have a reason to come in?", which is currently answered negatively because of risk but hardly any reward 18:26:47 Like, I think that even if Forest was somehow made a joyful experience for people, a large group would still recommend not doing it anyway 18:27:03 DracoOmega: that's a given, but says more about people than anything else 18:27:04 The thing is, what purpose does Forest serve that Crypt does not also serve well enough without it? 18:27:04 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:27:08 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:44 I tried, in my way, to make Forest a more interesting branch, but the idea of putting it there in the first place was not mine, and as time has gone on, I've questioned the value of a rotation in this slot at all, really 18:27:48 <|amethyst> I would like to see some kind of branch variation outside Lair roulette, but it doesn't have to be Forest 18:28:02 <|amethyst> Forest was the option that got the furthest though (see Dwarf) 18:29:08 -!- Brokkr has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:30:16 Actually, my Crypt work made me come to think that the slot is more awkward than I originally realized 18:30:27 Forest was never really intended to fill the slot that it currently occupies; it more went there on the basis that we needed to needed to balance out the extra XP from it somehow. 18:30:27 dwarf died because the person working on it disappeared 18:30:30 Since part of the only reason a lot of people did it in the old version is because they considered it really safe 18:30:39 and no one else jumped in 18:30:41 And then when it wasn't.... 18:30:47 -!- imantor has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:30:55 cryptrune 18:30:56 <|amethyst> Zannick: all dwarves being no-heal now doesn't help 18:30:59 It's extra xp and loot at a part in the game where often if you are strong enough to feel safe there, you don't necessarily need it 18:31:14 nicolae-: That was my answer to that problem originally, but now I don't really think so 18:31:24 it's an interesting problem. I find new crypt to be much more fun but also threatening enough at a point in the game where I usually feel like I have plenty of xp 18:31:25 At least since the advent of Depths (and I think longer than that), people generally haven't felt the need to enter either branch unless they're going for Tomb and/or some variant of the extended game. 18:32:01 nonethousand: Yeah. I do it still since I find it fun (I ought to, given that it's my doing :P), but I see why it's sort of problematic 18:32:12 -!- Daagar has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:18 DracoOmega: Hi 18:34:37 Grunt: I had a look at your Snake monster concepts, incidentally. I haven't PLAYED with them, but I did look at the branch. 18:34:56 -!- lukano has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:08 Right now I consider more that more of a brainstorming branch than anything definitive. 18:35:14 Oh, sure 18:35:20 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:35:33 I was just going to say that if we're attempting a sprucing up of some Lair branches with this Forest project, I mightn't mind putting some of my time in that direction too 18:35:40 I've pondered some of what you have there and some of my old Snake ideas 18:35:41 I'm not overly enamored with at least one of the designs there, and possibly more; I haven't given it a lot of thought since I started working on god designs. >_> 18:35:52 snake monsters, huh? 18:35:54 neat 18:36:00 !send nicolae- the elite marksnaga squad 18:36:01 Sending the elite marksnaga squad to nicolae-. 18:36:04 Yeah, I think a couple are questionable, but I also think some others have promise :P 18:36:07 thank you grunt i will treasure it always 18:36:17 But that's fine; that's how things usually start. 18:36:25 make a multi-tile snake that grows and grows as it eats items and you can kill it by making it run into its own tail 18:36:44 I had a tendancy to keep a lot of my cards close to my chest before unleshing things. In retrospect, I wonder if that ultimately did me any favors. 18:36:49 |amethyst: aren't most undead no-heal? why not a crypt/dwarf rotation =p 18:36:59 Zannick: Undead do heal 18:37:14 zombies and simulacra? 18:37:19 Zombies and such don't, but they're hardly 'most undead' 18:37:28 most undead are zombies and simulacra :P 18:37:33 i wonder how deep dwarf societies handle injury 18:37:36 No they're not! 18:37:36 capita-wise 18:37:53 nicolae-: Many people worshipping Ely 18:38:06 Feh. BLOOD AND SOULS 18:38:08 nicolae-: many many wands 18:38:16 Deep dwarves are a bunch of devil worshippers and you know it. <_< 18:38:17 3 equally valid answers! :P 18:38:39 DracoOmega: but that would make all dwarves become neutral, pack up and leave the place! :p 18:38:47 Hence why the branch does not exist 18:38:54 Grunt: shallow dwarves are mostly concerned about their appearance 18:39:02 Zannick: <3 18:39:03 The elves moved in afterward, one assumes 18:39:28 Zannick: and I hear they heal through beer 18:39:34 i wonder how deep dwarf societies handle injury 18:39:36 pens of sheep to vamp drain 18:39:41 dpeg: no, they require beer to function at all! 18:39:49 like you and me? 18:40:00 ...and the rest of us! 18:40:19 We need *some* way of dealing with those pesky players after all. <_< >_> 18:40:29 * kilobyte has an alcohol problem. 18:40:30 i thought that's what making mean vaults was for 18:40:35 not a drop of beer in the house! :( 18:40:41 !cheers kilobyte 18:40:42 * Sequell slides a shot glass of rum across the bar to kilobyte, on the house. 18:40:49 !lg * fo kmap=~evilmike_bad_box 18:40:50 1. araganzar the Basher (L14 FoFi), worshipper of Cheibriados, blasted by a tengu reaver (bolt of poison) (kmap: evilmike_bad_box) on D:16 on 2014-01-14 23:39:39, with 41997 points after 17869 turns and 1:27:48. 18:41:12 mmm 18:41:58 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1885-gb94c3af: End the spirit howl. Permanently. 10(3 minutes ago, 20 files, 18+ 175-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b94c3af31203 18:42:18 THANK YOU 18:42:18 Hooray 18:42:38 RIP spirit wolves 18:42:57 that would imply anyone liked them 18:43:01 ROT IN THE FOULEST PITS 18:43:43 kilobyte: Not wasting any time there, now.... 18:44:22 RIP is rest in peace, we don't want the spirit wolves to become restless undead and rise from their graves 18:44:27 i better make some better wolves, then 18:44:38 Ancient wolves 18:44:40 DracoOmega: spirit wolf was on the hangedman chopping block? 18:44:41 orb wolves 18:44:44 "Plus, even worse, they're summoners. 18:44:44 " Incidentally, can that really be considered true if they summon non-abjurable things that give you xp and corpses and all that? 18:45:02 orb of wolves 18:45:03 ancient wolf, large, rF+, goes berserk at low HP, bear-shaped tile, also called ancient bears 18:45:06 argh dammit basil 18:45:14 Well, they were worse than current summoners 18:45:20 which is saying a lot 18:45:25 make a wolf like the dog-thing at the beginning of The Thing 18:45:25 because they made you hole up for a good long while 18:45:26 wait 18:45:34 its head opens up like a flower and then tentacles come out 18:45:37 wouldn't they also be scummable then 18:45:38 even after the "summoner" died 18:45:43 direwolves 18:46:10 Honestly, I think it was closer to Mark that followed you cross-level 18:46:13 Ghost, a unique direwolf with a silence aura 18:46:28 dpeg: It was, effectively 18:46:51 zot is coming 18:48:02 i still think we should make the cwn annyn 18:48:17 -!- Kintak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:32 the black dog? 18:49:01 tenofswords: your proposal doesn't say what you would do to badsprings 18:49:01 they're super-fast, invisible and have wandering mushroom ai as long as your hp is above 25% 18:49:24 wellsprings are okay now 18:49:32 imo 18:49:37 move them to temple 18:50:06 they can just be depths water monsters 18:51:00 yeah 18:51:01 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 18:51:02 wellsprings are actually dangerous 18:51:07 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:51:11 unlike all other water monsters 18:52:06 electric eels are considered dangerous by one or two of us 18:52:07 !messages 18:52:07 No messages for TZer0. 18:52:54 !tell TZer0 You never have any messages... 18:52:54 Grunt: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 18:53:06 Eels are more of an annoyance than a genuine threat. 18:53:32 The eel flops around on dry land! 18:53:41 They're dangerous early enough 18:53:53 Saying 'they're not dangerous if you run away' means that a great many things are not dangerous, then 18:53:56 Grunt: except that now you are wrong 18:53:57 TZer0: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 18:54:01 Hah! 18:54:05 !messages 18:54:05 (1/1) Grunt said (1m 11s ago): You never have any messages... 18:54:06 see? 18:54:10 they are a tactical threat too. they often cut off straight line escape paths 18:54:16 Indeed 18:54:21 !tell TZer0 You have at least one message 18:54:21 nicolae-: OK, I'll let tzer0 know. 18:54:30 !messages 18:54:30 (1/1) nicolae- said (9s ago): You have at least one message 18:54:32 nope 18:54:35 you are wrong as well! 18:54:35 Mostly I dislike ranged water monsters because you can't exclude them properly 18:54:37 :P 18:55:42 A few times it's been mentioned that it would be nice to have a convenience function to exclude a whole body of water 18:55:45 Like the game does with doors 18:55:46 ug, is there any way to deal with a stupid packet-filtering firewall that seems to be disallowing websockets 18:55:56 I guess I could set up an ssh forwarding or something 18:55:59 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:09 gammafunk: https? 18:56:13 hrm 18:56:22 DracoOmega: do you mean exclude the water tiles only or place full exclusions around the whole pond? 18:56:30 Around the whole pond 18:56:30 a function to exclude a whole body of water would probably backfire in shoals 18:56:30 kilobyte: ahahah, yeah that worked 18:56:33 didn't even think to try 18:56:36 thanks 18:56:40 nicolae-: Well, presumably you don't use it there! :P 18:56:40 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:41 wow, what a stupid firewall 18:58:07 yeah I like that idea 18:58:37 (You extinguish the firewall. Dithmengos appreciates your putting out a fire.) 18:58:57 death to all fires 18:59:05 fr rename dithmengos "smokey the bear" 18:59:15 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:59:17 Can't; S god already taken :b 18:59:23 qsmokey 18:59:50 clearly we need a summoner focused god 18:59:57 I think that's Sif 18:59:57 No, we don't. 19:00:02 Trog 19:00:07 oh 19:00:09 tso 19:00:10 Trog, the best summoner god. <3 19:00:13 yes 19:00:18 !lm thyme musu 19:00:19 28. [2013-12-14 06:45:55] Thyme the Bludgeoner (L14 MuSu) reached level 4 of the Orcish Mines on turn 34326. (Orc:4) 19:00:24 isn't there a quasi-actual idea to just tear down the summoning school and start over from scratch 19:00:26 hmm 19:00:30 that is probably even serious 19:00:45 nicolae-: no, not with the recent changes 19:00:55 I think some people think it should be 19:01:00 I heard evilmike say it even semi-recently, I think 19:01:13 Just keep a couple of the spells that are good and trash the rest for something better, if I recall 19:02:02 But like, while a lot of people think many things about the current state aren't good, there's been few specific ideas about how to make them better, I believe 19:04:15 yeah 19:05:56 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:05:56 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:06 I think summons should do something interesting outside of just be summons, like how haunt summons lock on to the target, butterflies can't actually attack, or that one spell that summons an eldritch tentacle 19:07:05 what if we started with player spells? Abjuration would stay as Tloc, Malign Gateway as Tloc, Haunt as Necr (Necr/Hex?), with everything else gone 19:07:16 Sputterflies being the only one I'd miss :p 19:07:35 I think there are other summon spells that are reasonable besides these 19:07:44 Though some of those are the best, yes 19:07:52 Malign gateway is obviously great design :P 19:08:34 I honestly really like shadow creatures just from the lottery perspective. I think the demon summon spells are okay, and them turning hostile over time is at least some other unique facet of it. 19:08:43 Well, demon and greater demon, I mean 19:09:08 Imp is interesting 19:09:15 in that you get a white imp and kill things 19:09:16 http://sprunge.us/VSCh has the complete list, this includes monster spells 19:09:28 -!- ussdefiant_ has joined ##crawl-dev 19:09:50 Oh also 19:09:58 Twisted res is sort of annoying as a monster spell 19:10:05 spawn tentacles should be player spell i m o 19:10:07 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:08 -!- ussdefiant_ is now known as ussdefiant 19:10:27 seems that it only serves to make me tab more 19:10:43 I think it needs a power boost so that it can actually build large abominations more easily 19:10:44 It's in Elf and where else? 19:10:47 Since they can actually do something 19:10:50 Basically just Elf 19:10:54 Meh 19:10:56 <|amethyst> maybe crawlies are too slow 19:11:10 give twisted resurrection to something in depths, lots of big corpses there, right 19:11:14 If you're in Elf then you have worse to deal with than aboms 19:11:19 Or maybe that, too? But even if you leave them alone, it often doesn't produce much 19:11:44 Basil: Well, having worse to deal with doesn't mean that a few things with 40 melee damage suddenly in your way can't be a problem of its own 19:11:48 If that actually happened more than rarely 19:12:01 Small ones are ignorable and even those often don't appear in number 19:12:24 just make sputterflies a scroll or something 19:12:27 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:34 or a Hex spell 19:12:43 Draconian zealots used to have twisted rez, but I restored their old animate dead in its place when I gave malign offering to deep elf (high) priests 19:12:44 or conj/tloc 19:12:47 or whatever 19:12:47 It worked even less well there 19:12:52 conjure butterflies 19:13:08 <|amethyst> I'm not really attached to it as a monster spell 19:13:10 large abomination (04X) | Spd: 6-12 | HD: 11 | HP: 32-67 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Dam: 40 | 07undead, evil | Res: 06magic(102), 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 725 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 19:13:10 %??large abomination 19:13:40 deep elf death mage (16e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 55-82 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 12 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: 06magic(120) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1119 | Sp: b.draining (3d22), vampiric draining, call lost soul, twisted resurrection | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:13:40 %??deep elf death mage 19:13:41 the only problem with removing the summoning school is that means we can't nerf it anymore 19:13:51 deep elf mage (06e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 6 | HP: 19-36 | AC/EV: 0/13 | Dam: 5 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, spellcaster | Res: 06magic(48) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 213 | Sp: b.magma (3d14), stone arrow (3d12) / flame tongue (3d9), sticky flame range (3d4), fireball (3d14), throw flame (3d6) / freeze, throw icicle (3d14), ice beast / magic dart (3d4), force lance (3d10), battlesphere, mystic blast (3d12) / mystic blast (3d12), b.slow, b.venom (3d11), blink | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 19:13:51 %??deep elf mage 19:13:52 (by we I mean the dev team) 19:13:55 (which does not include me) 19:14:05 Lightli: :p 19:14:13 Well, I wouldn't be so hasty to outright remove it, though I definitely don't like a lot of things of its current state 19:14:27 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:28 Well, perhaps part of the problem is if tres doesn't just dump out 3 large aboms a go 19:14:37 yes 19:14:45 you can just tab through the small mages' aboms 19:15:12 and if you're fighting a big elf in a situation where it can get aboms, that is sort of not good for other reasons 19:15:17 (I meant the summoning school, not monster twisted rez with that statement, by the way :P) 19:15:54 Might be worth trying another power multiplier on monster twisted rez and a little speed boost, and if that's still not that relevant, just cut it 19:16:21 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:16:27 -!- cr0ne has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:02 -!- Voker57 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:50 Remove it from everybody save a kiku corpsedrop unique 19:18:51 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:18:53 That should be interesting 19:19:48 -!- DayBay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:38 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:21:59 -!- twelwe has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:23:31 There is not kiku-worshiping unique, is there 19:23:37 A ghould unique would be in order 19:23:38 not yet 19:23:41 *ghoul 19:24:43 Kiku seems harder to effectively convey in unique form than some gods 19:25:00 Aside from summoning zombies from nowhere in two turns, but that also doesn't seem that interesting 19:25:06 would anyone cry if the horn of Geryon got fed to the Royal Jelly, making the portals open on Geryon's death? 19:25:16 I like it as a trove key 19:25:17 hmm... or perhaps, just start up open 19:25:19 It's a nice sidetrip 19:25:51 Probably that is the main place I would actually miss it in, though. I always liked getting a horn trove. 19:26:16 killing Geryon for a trove is nice for getting lazy 3 rune players to do it, yeah 19:27:05 yeah, combine the two ideas, the portals open when geryon dies and then you get a horn you can use to get into troves, or maybe make it a more useful evocable too 19:27:06 actually, I wonder, what's the point of hell portals ever becoming active/inactive rather than just staying there 19:27:43 nicolae-: I saw someone using it to summon hostile beasts and then enslaving and hasting them, once 19:27:51 nicolae-: This turned out to be less awful than it sounds 19:27:52 I'd remove both the need to pick up, evoke and drop the horn, and the portals going away on picking up the Orb 19:28:07 They have really bad MR or something, I think? 19:28:10 hell beast (072) | Spd: 10-17 | HD: 6 | HP: 40-97 | AC/EV: 4/9 | Dam: 28, 2007(trample) | 05demonic, 10doors, fighter | Res: 06magic(24), 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 448 | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 19:28:10 %??hell beast 19:28:21 the latter could be used on Tournaments for what's currently done with the Golden Rune 19:28:22 Yeah, that's pathetically low for their melee damage 19:29:07 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:29:15 Orbrun Hell sounds worse than orbrun Tomb to me :P 19:29:18 (But yes, I don't see a specific reason why the game needs to prevent this?) 19:29:59 I hadn't really thought to question it before, but it doesn't seem particularly necessary? 19:30:28 kilobyte: that sounds fine to me yeah, could leave the horn as a flavour thing/potential trove thing/make the beasts friendly so it has some slight actual use maybe 19:30:37 -!- Prominence has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:55 -!- N78291 has joined ##crawl-dev 19:31:03 or charmed and eventually hostile like other demon summons 19:31:30 or possibly working like an elemental evoker 19:31:36 Grunt: I don't know if you saw but I was able to basically shadowstep my way to the orb on zot:5 19:32:02 That sounds fun 19:32:16 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 19:34:37 It was impressive. 19:34:47 MarvinPA: and abyss/pan? 19:35:03 at least for the abyss, you can still unwield distortion or get banished 19:35:20 I think the orbrun spawns don't actually show up in the Abyss, too? 19:35:36 So it's mostly normal Abyss (since the orb blocking cTele doesn't even matter) 19:35:50 Just some stealth and glow penalties or whatnot 19:37:05 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:48 allowing pan seems okay too maybe, yeah 19:40:21 -!- repent has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:40:55 i wonder if you could get cerebov to spawn on mnoleg's level by ninjaing cerebov's rune and then leaving pan and coming back with the orb 19:41:14 Challenge, kill all panlords at the same time 19:41:16 get three of the pan lords to show up on the other one's level 19:41:17 <3 19:41:18 That sounds like a very awkward challenge in the making 19:41:21 Basil: in the same turn 19:41:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:49 i guess technically you can already do that by stealing all their runes and waiting for them all on the orbrun, but doing it on one of their actual levels seems even better :P 19:42:08 The Pan lords all having a conference in Cerebov's castle 19:42:17 tupperware party 19:42:24 "I see you FINALLY fixed that hole in the wall. Took you enough years!" 19:42:37 you've really let yourself go, mnoleg 19:43:35 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 19:44:35 also it would fix a mimic bug where you get a portal mimic and then pick up the orb and it turns into a floor mimic on the way back up 19:44:44 (but i can think of a better way of fixing that bug) 19:44:50 yes. allow floor mimics. 19:46:16 yes definitely 19:46:53 floor mimics, wall mimics, water mimics, lava mimics 19:47:04 cloud mimics 19:47:15 mimic mimics 19:47:18 MarvinPA: does anyone actually support portal mimics existing 19:47:23 I don't 19:47:25 like, is that actually a controversial thing 19:47:50 -!- WalkerBoh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:48:08 well if mimics are going to exist then portals are a pretty good thing to mimic 19:49:53 no they aren't 19:50:04 most mimics are just sort of annoying 19:50:11 portal mimics tend to be horribly frustrating 19:50:16 My favorite mimics are definitely door mimics, for the neat LoS effects :P 19:50:23 you spend time on a level hunting down a portal vault and ha ha it doesn't exist 19:50:38 or you get stuff like shop mimics in orc:4 or a bazaar 19:50:57 DracoOmega: and that's the reason I'd axe them, as checking for them slows down LOS code quite a bit 19:52:10 I actually used something similarly briefly during stone of tremors coding, for LoS-obstructing destrutable rubble piles 19:52:28 There were various (unrelated) reasons this didn't function well 19:56:05 Hey DracoOmega 19:56:07 %bug 7972 19:56:07 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7972 19:56:22 Is that by design? (or otherwise desirable) 19:57:20 I don't THINK it's by design (though it's been a while) and probably not desireable 19:57:57 I did want to try to make the retreat order hard to use usefully for offense, but that doesn't seem like this issue helps much in that regard 19:58:07 At most it delays you one turn, and in a way that's unintuitive 19:58:27 Right. They could of course also ignore tf 19:58:35 That sounds even worse 19:59:06 Especially since if you are actually retreating with them, you want to be able to say that you've reached a good enough spot and can stop now 19:59:17 Instead of just them running on anyway and oddly ignoring you 19:59:40 That how I thought I worked, and it didn't seem too bad. Not that I played with that many allies. 19:59:59 But yeah, guess it's best to just fix ta. 20:00:21 hmm 20:00:34 Is it off the table to make friendly oklobs default to tw? 20:01:03 One thing I have used tr for, is killing invisible enemies (in corridors) 20:01:07 It seems sensible if they are always 'patrolling' unless commanded to a specific target 20:01:15 Since they can't actually move anyway 20:01:32 That makes them attack on sight? Sounds good. 20:01:38 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:40 Another thing I didn't realize, would have helped :P 20:01:49 Yes, 'wait' isn't really 'wait' 20:01:54 -!- sprort has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:01:56 And more like 'do whatever you want right now' 20:02:03 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 20:02:07 can we rename "wait" to "do whatever" 20:02:16 So it's often more effecient to command them to attack using this, since they will pick accessible targets 20:02:24 just rename 'w'ait to 'w'hatever, problem half solved 20:02:31 Instead of all clumping up trying to get to one single target with stuff in the way of them 20:03:12 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:03:16 That seems quite bad actually. Since that's really hard to discover (based on my own experience). 20:03:25 And I do have couple of Fedhas wins 20:03:39 It's hard to discover in general, yeah 20:03:44 I didn't realize it for a long time 20:04:01 The thing is, some of it does ALSO mean wait 20:04:03 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:04:12 Like, they won't follow you down stairs, for example, even when nearby 20:04:15 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:04:33 So it can't just say 'Break and attack' or whatnot 20:05:07 -!- Alarkh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:05:12 in the case of oklobs specifically wait is good because it helps them not die when out of sight 20:05:42 Ah, that too 20:05:44 Yeah, it's not so bad for other things. 20:06:38 They can be spawned in that mode fairly easily, but it might be somewhat harder for them not to end up back in it based on orders you didn't think would have that effect 20:09:36 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:09:38 what would be the problem with returning to it 20:09:43 they aren't going to wander off 20:09:51 No, no, I mean returning to NOT being in 'wander' mode 20:09:51 I think he just means technically 20:09:52 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:53 And thus ignoring things 20:10:05 -!- ProzacElf has joined ##crawl-dev 20:10:13 -!- Zermako has quit [Quit: good night and good luck to all!] 20:10:19 oh ok 20:10:25 Which could cause your oklobs to mysteriously sometimes stop shooting on sight 20:11:06 Well, we COULD make them ignore your orders altogether, but that means you couldn't pick specific targets 20:11:09 That would be simplest, of course 20:11:25 In most cases you don't even WANT to name specific targets, keep in mind 20:11:50 So they would just always shoot at whatever hostile attracted their attention, without intervention 20:11:54 That would be improvement from current the current state, IMO. But not optimal of course. 20:12:08 Well, this is what spores do currently, in effect 20:12:22 Though the behavior is somewhat different given that they are mobile melee instead of stationary ranged 20:12:58 something like "defend this spot" might be more helpful a name than "wait here" 20:13:06 Hmmm... 20:13:11 You may have a point 20:13:41 mm, zotdef had just the function I needed 20:13:42 But monsters disperse pretty fast? 20:13:46 Still, I don't think that conveys to a beginner that this is a more effective way to ATTACk something than telling them to attack it 20:13:47 how appropriate for Fedhas. 20:13:57 What function? 20:14:17 -!- nicolae- has left ##crawl-dev 20:14:33 _set_nearest_monster_foe 20:15:18 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:30 That should do it anyway, I'm compiling to check 20:16:45 pew pew pew pew 20:16:53 You feel more experienced. x27 20:19:50 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 20:19:53 !seen dpeg 20:19:53 I last saw dpeg at Wed Jan 15 01:18:51 2014 UTC (1h 1m 1s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Lost terminal'. 20:20:13 !apt fo 20:20:13 Fo: Fighting: 0, Short: 1, Long: 0, Axes: 0, Maces: 0, Polearms: 0, Staves: 0, Slings: 1, Bows: -2, Xbows: 0, Throw: -2*, Armour: 2!, Dodge: -1, Stealth: 3, Shields: 0, UC: 0, Splcast: -1, Conj: -1, Hexes: 2, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: 0, Tloc: -1, Tmut: 1, Fire: 0, Ice: 0, Air: -2, Earth: 2, Poison: 3!, Inv: 2, Evo: 2, Exp: 2!, HP: -2, MP: 0 20:20:20 -!- HellTiger has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:20:24 !tell dpeg Some time ago you suggested that maybe we should try removing item destruction in trunk. Now seems as good a time as any. 20:20:24 bh: OK, I'll let dpeg know. 20:21:26 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:30 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:53 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1886-g298e3e9: Don't close portals upon picking up the Orb. 10(43 minutes ago, 3 files, 0+ 38-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=298e3e9e4b60 20:23:53 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1887-g5c01cd8: Don't require playing the horn of Geryon to enter proper hells. 10(13 minutes ago, 4 files, 53+ 71-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5c01cd831c15 20:25:23 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:25:27 YES 20:25:34 feature request, let geryon fly again so people can't escape over liquids 20:25:37 Now we can do all of extended with the orb :v 20:25:52 (if somebody loses a trove over that that's their fault) 20:26:17 That seems sensible. Making absolutely sure you can't lose the horn doesn't seem important anymore. 20:27:15 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:19 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 20:29:32 "A huge, three-headed, winged arch-demon, guardian of the four Hells. Legends say that his silver horn is used to throw open the gates of Hell themselves." 20:29:49 uh 20:29:58 is it a problem that the most popular god for summoners post nerf is Trog 20:30:56 I am not sure that ITSELF is a problem, though it does bespeak to how many people don't like playing them as summoners 20:32:38 kilobyte: draconians have wings 20:33:02 Callings seems like one of the stronger books from my experiences with it 20:33:51 !lg . su won 20:33:52 2. Basil the Conqueror (L27 OgSu), worshipper of Ashenzari, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-01-06 03:25:01, with 1378056 points after 130026 turns and 7:09:14. 20:33:55 !lg . su won 1 20:33:56 1/2. Basil the Conqueror (L27 MiSu), worshipper of Okawaru, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2013-08-08 02:30:55, with 1448047 points after 102446 turns and 8:06:55. 20:34:01 or experience, rather 20:35:38 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 20:35:41 It really tells more about there not being a clear summoner god (which isn't a bad thing) than anything else 20:35:54 rip oldveh 20:36:21 That said, I never did try that summoning thing before imp was capped 20:36:31 infinity imps seems quite powerful. 20:37:09 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1888-ge0a02a1: Revert "Don't let Geryon fly" 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e0a02a117171 20:37:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1889-g735c0d0: Revert "Cut Geryon's wings, to let the tile match behaviour." 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=735c0d0279fe 20:37:32 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1890-ge2fcf9b: Don't recharge rods on ground faster based on your Evoc skill. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e2fcf9ba0384 20:40:16 -!- lobf_ has quit [Quit: lobf_] 20:44:56 -!- Egglet has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:45:14 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 20:47:40 Make oklobs select their own target when they have none by Sage 20:52:44 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 20:53:49 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:56:25 -!- Escalator has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:52 infinite anything was ridiculous 20:58:08 you could probably beat the game with just summon ice beast spam 20:58:42 MuSu was considered amazing for a reason 20:59:34 Beating an orb of fire with even 1000 ice beasts sounds unlikely to me 21:00:26 DracoOmega: do you have to beat it at that point? 21:00:37 also, nice to see you 21:00:42 Thanks :) 21:01:28 oh hey, it is dracoomega 21:01:37 the hero returns 21:01:40 (And really, even if you just tried to ignore it and dance to the orb with 1000 ice beasts in the way, this still sounds kind of non-viable to me) 21:01:47 Furthermore, how did even a MuSu get THAT many? 21:01:50 Hahaha. Me? ^^; 21:02:01 not even too sarcastic 21:02:08 i'm in the omega fan club 21:02:12 Awwww :) 21:02:14 the chairman, in fact 21:02:15 =p 21:03:28 I'd say the main issue with new summoning is that though the mechanics have changed, the spells are mostly still the old ones designed around spamming them (for different reasons) 21:03:44 I agree with that. Some of them just seem pretty poor in their current incarnation 21:03:51 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:55 (Does scorpions still summon more than its own cap in even one cast? >.>) 21:04:31 WalkerBoh: I didn't know we had chairs 21:04:33 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 21:04:49 SamB: well, that's because you never come to fan club events 21:05:19 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: it can, but not as much as before 21:05:43 <|amethyst> DracoOmega: I increased the cap from 4 to 6, but it looks like it can theoretically summon 8 21:06:29 The thing is, just ONE cast of a lot of these spells was never really that much good anyway 21:06:45 Solution 21:06:48 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:51 make it summon one emperor scorpion 21:06:59 That might be an improvement! :P 21:07:22 Like, some spells like malign gateway do show that summon caps can still result in fun and powerful and balanced spells 21:07:25 <|amethyst> CCF was changed to just one hound or better 21:07:48 mm 21:07:52 The problem I said from the time they were first implemented was that they were just kinda shoehorned onto existing spells not designed around them 21:07:52 Distobrand summon 21:08:03 One hound from a level 3 spell feels pretty underwhelming to me, I have to admit 21:08:11 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:15 If you compare it to realistic damage output from a level 3 attack spell 21:08:25 Which you don't need to wait multiple turns to recast usefully 21:08:27 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 21:08:39 But I have to admit here that I have not played much summoning at all recently 21:08:59 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:17 <|amethyst> CCF could probably use better scaling to wolves/wargs 21:09:18 How long does malign gateway take to emerge, anyway? 21:09:26 <|amethyst> I didn't change that much when I removed jackals 21:09:28 I think it could be a bit shorter (just a little) 21:09:32 All I hear from high-end summoning is sgd and hydra 21:09:52 I've used malign gateway a bunch and it's fun. I don't think that's just a TAD slow sometimes, though, and could handle the boost without being overpowered. 21:09:57 do think* 21:10:16 It's sort of hard to use in some cases, admittedly 21:10:29 Summon Unique 21:10:35 (Amusingly, I found it comboed nicely with sputterflies, just to hold things up long enough for it to come out) 21:10:39 it's not really obvious when you can use it 21:10:45 <|amethyst> I was thinking about the often-suggested "offensive tukima's" 21:10:49 N78291: Wasn't that fixed a while back? 21:10:55 <|amethyst> and how it might make sense as Sum/Hex 21:10:56 Fight to survive, mortal! 21:11:02 N78291: So that it's deterministive and you lose no time if you can't use it 21:11:38 well it is hard to tell if you can use it before trying to cast I mean 21:11:58 Yes, I suppose that's still true 21:12:03 Though that's certainly BETTER than it randomly failing 21:12:09 And taking your turn and mp 21:12:55 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:31 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 21:18:10 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1891-ga5145f6: A bunch of kennysheepized decor vaults. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 163+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a5145f6255d1 21:18:10 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1892-g2b1dc5a: Move encompass.des to branch/depths_ 10(2 minutes ago, 2 files, 1744+ 1744-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b1dc5aa41db 21:19:45 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1893-g9ef1149: Update the comments and use default_depth: in depths_encompass. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ef11495742c 21:20:27 -!- Brannock_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:22:17 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 21:22:37 * Grunt ponders landing shadow-god; it seems to be at least debugged enough to warrant wider testing for balancing purposes. 21:23:51 -!- Brannock has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:01 I would quasi-seriously recommend having halo effects cancel out your shadow double attacking for you, but then realized that umbra overrides halo 21:24:17 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:24:51 umbra and halo cancel out when they overlap 21:25:09 probably it looks really weird to wield mace of brilliance as a high piety dithite 21:25:10 oh 21:25:20 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:38 Donut 21:25:52 umbra donut 21:25:56 with dark magenta sprinkles 21:26:44 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:53 %git shadow-god 21:26:53 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-1884-g9cdec30: Properly punish Dith followers for wearing glowy/fiery equipment. 10(4 hours ago, 2 files, 23+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9cdec3053732 21:27:13 if you're wearing bad equipment, when do you get punished? 21:27:16 * Grunt notes that we don't currently have any fiery armour pieces... 21:27:31 if you move, apparently? 21:27:31 cloak of starlight 21:27:34 Salamander hide? 21:27:40 nah 21:27:52 when attacking for weapons I think 21:28:07 otherwise you wouldn't be able to let tso bless a demon weapon 21:28:27 Only one other deity checks for worn equipment right now (IIRC) and that is Chei for running. 21:28:34 Oh, wait, hold on, that doesn't make sense. 21:29:38 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 21:29:47 check while moving makes sense for running 21:32:02 mildly, but not really annoyed by the depths_encompass commit, mostly because I was considering at some point re-purposing the depth-scaling and providing transition between D and U by editing them into having U entrances like as is done for Zot 21:32:25 hm, one problem with hating fire/illuminating is you get that old holy/evil draconian problem if you turn red under dith 21:32:34 or mottled 21:37:23 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1894-g7e00e7a: Restore the default-depth after Grunt's profanity. 10(75 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e00e7ab19c6 21:37:23 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1895-g958ac0a: A mid-D encompass vault by kennysheep. 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 90+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=958ac0acf9b4 21:37:26 -!- jday has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:27 tenofswords: what's the problem? I guess you'd alter only a few of the vaults, so they can be moved around. 21:38:02 -!- Blazinghand|Work has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:45 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:40:30 ...oh, okay, the only normal armour brand hated by a god is running (for Chei); every other armour piece hated by a god in some sense seems to be an unrand. 21:40:44 I'll move the handling to roughly where unrands would trigger it. 21:40:50 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:41:45 it's not _really_ a problem in that I can just say they count as depths entries, just a little annoyed 21:43:05 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: hdyraierc <<---f teh leegtZo0r lol12!!!1 d >_< b] 21:43:39 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:45:05 FR: if i have two items that invoke for the same ability, the fail rate should be less 21:45:37 It is less. It's just that you get an extra penalty for trying to multitask and they cancel out :P 21:45:55 Basil: Wonder if we should do mons_is_stationary instead of == MONS_OKLOB_PLANT, for that target patch 21:46:04 Basil: (You are Sage right?) 21:46:19 Basil, Sage, Thyme, some kind of spice... 21:46:35 03Grunt02 07[shadow-god] * 0.14-a0-1885-g7782a6f: Move handling of fiery/illuminating armour to be closer to unrands. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 28+ 21-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7782a6fd92d9 21:46:44 !nick sage 21:46:44 Mapping sage => basil hypersage sage thyme 21:47:02 Anyway, that is also an idea 21:47:14 are frightened wandering mushrooms stationary? 21:47:28 I don't think so. Should probably check. 21:48:29 -!- floatboth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:37 Oh, it's mons_class_is_stationary actually, so no they are not. 21:49:13 Ah 21:49:38 So are there not-oklobs in the normal game that are stationary allies, or is this more for correctness' sake? 21:49:56 Just future proofing 21:49:57 zotdef 21:50:08 n78291: I stole that from zotdef code 21:50:17 Yeah, that code doesn't run in zotdef 21:50:21 so I think those allies already work properly 21:50:24 in case fedhas lets you upgrade bushes to burning bushes in the future 21:51:11 Go Fedhas 21:51:36 what code doesn't run in zotdef? 21:51:58 %bug 7986 21:51:58 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7986 21:52:33 Medar: My _set_nearest_monster_foe addition is in the !zotdef branch of a conditional, yes 21:52:45 Yes, that's what I meant 21:52:47 and ~10 lines down in the zotdef branch, the same function is called 21:52:53 (which I cribbed) 21:54:36 Okay... time to pull the trigger. 21:54:49 You hear a distant pew. 21:54:52 (after I double-check that this builds and runs properly) 21:55:22 Basil: You hear a banging sound 21:55:31 You enjoyed that. 21:56:51 what armor brands would anger dsomething anyways 21:58:12 ...hm, I guess it's also entirely unrands at this point. 22:00:37 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:46 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:01:10 * Grunt shrugs. 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1839-gd9cdcdc: Shadow god - initial enums, features, descriptions, basics. 10(5 days ago, 13 files, 89+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9cdcdccebdd 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1840-g01b9f1c: Shadow god - umbra. 10(5 days ago, 2 files, 41+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=01b9f1c5106c 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1841-ge3c0bc1: Move some non-god-specific abil enums out of that space. 10(5 days ago, 3 files, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3c0bc122d3f 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1842-gd3e7f67: Shadow god: Shadow Step. 10(5 days ago, 8 files, 148+ 9-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d3e7f6798226 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1843-ga3a0f48: Shadow god: Bleed Smoke. 10(5 days ago, 2 files, 22+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3a0f48aab73 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1844-gc961fcd: Shadow god: Shadow Mimic. 10(5 days ago, 7 files, 205+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c961fcdee648 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1845-g571dd19: Shadow god: Shadow Form. 10(5 days ago, 16 files, 139+ 30-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=571dd195bbc7 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1846-g90d4682: Recolour the shadow god's altar. 10(5 days ago, 3 files, 8+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=90d4682d8f29 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1847-g2646bce: An altar tile for the shadow god. 10(5 days ago, 2 files, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2646bce0e929 22:01:54 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1848-gc9e202c: Shadow god wrath. 10(5 days ago, 1 file, 72+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c9e202c6a05d 22:01:54 ... and 38 more commits 22:05:08 dith on trunk? 22:05:36 Chei's last message gives me an odd feeling of deja vu somehow 22:05:39 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:51 uh 22:05:53 what just happened 22:05:58 %git 22:05:58 07Grunt02 * 0.14-a0-1943-g58d5a39: Merge branch 'shadow-god' 10(7 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=58d5a39bc212 22:06:02 That. 22:06:06 oh 22:06:08 here we go 22:06:22 !polytheist 22:06:23 Medar is a polytheist! 22:06:25 Lies! 22:06:34 Medar: we need to log a game with the new god first :) 22:07:50 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:07:58 Do we already have a credit for mikee in credits.txt? 22:08:01 are the servers updated yet 22:08:11 Lightli: No 22:08:35 <|amethyst> you'd have seen messages about it from the announcement bots 22:09:08 oh 22:09:19 now to wait for the update 22:09:42 03Sage02 {Medar} 07* 0.14-a0-1944-g0bca5b1: Make oklobs fire automatically when they have no preassigned target. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=0bca5b1567eb 22:09:42 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1945-g6f3e328: Make stationary allies ignore the retreat command 10(47 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f3e3283edf2 22:09:42 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1946-g4d23bc5: Cancel allies retreat when ordered to attack (#7972) 10(34 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4d23bc512ff6 22:09:57 Radical 22:10:26 There are probably still issues with those commands, but hopefully that improves things a bit 22:10:29 dang 22:10:45 Didn't really test all the interactions very well 22:11:00 That's what trunk is for 22:11:08 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 22:11:11 !lg * fedhas won 22:11:11 212. Basil the Conqueror (L26 OgFE), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-01-14 14:21:11, with 1350671 points after 109008 turns and 6:14:52. 22:11:14 !lg * fedhas won -2 22:11:15 211/212. Pac the Intangible (L27 DrMo), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-01-09 03:34:27, with 1438679 points after 101668 turns and 4:35:06. 22:11:17 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1946-g4d23bc5 (34) 22:11:19 !lg * fedhas won -3 22:11:20 210/212. Basil the Conqueror (L27 OgEE), worshipper of Fedhas, escaped with the Orb and 3 runes on 2014-01-02 06:31:32, with 1370669 points after 115831 turns and 6:10:53. 22:11:27 -!- LordSloth has quit [Quit: Using leafChat 2] 22:11:33 hmm 22:13:24 -!- Nagnazul has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:14:48 Oh also, could somebody take another look at issue 7951 when they get the chance 22:15:18 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:25 03Medar02 07[stone_soup-0.13] * 0.13.1-25-g341c717: Fix a WebTiles loading error (#7965) 10(6 days ago, 2 files, 23+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=341c717eb846 22:19:02 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:02 Grunt: maybe your shadow shouldn't disliked spells? I haven't tried but I think it is possible 22:22:07 shouldn't mimic 22:22:17 Hm. 22:22:36 no 22:22:38 it should 22:22:40 but on you 22:26:54 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1946-g4d23bc5 (34) 22:30:20 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1946-g4d23bc5 22:31:01 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:32:20 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:54 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:39:12 -!- Piginabag has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41:07 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:42:03 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 22:45:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1947-g2ddca77: Fix debug build. 10(54 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2ddca77fa1a5 22:45:07 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1948-g9be20ec: A manual update wrt Howl (wheals) 10(58 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9be20ec689a8 22:45:25 -!- Escalator has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:46:05 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:22 kilobyte: oops, sorry! I thought I'd remembered to update that. 22:50:49 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:16 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:52:46 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1949-gfab70a3: Changelog through 0.14-a0-1948-g9be20ec. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 60+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fab70a36f53d 22:53:39 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:41 -!- Tarragon has joined ##crawl-dev 22:53:51 -!- Tarragon is now known as Basil 22:56:47 -!- alefury has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:24 -!- lobf_ has quit [Client Quit] 23:05:25 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:55 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:12:12 -!- neuwiz has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:13:02 -!- |amethyst has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:11 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:35 -!- Sizzell has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:32 Grunt: Did spirit wolves exist in 0.13? 23:14:33 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:14:51 Medar: technically yes, but disabled. 23:15:07 Probably shouldn't be in the changelog then 23:15:09 Medar: I listed them in the changelog because 0.13 also did. 23:15:15 Oh it did. Right. 23:15:40 -!- gammafunk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:15 -!- Quashie has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:29 -!- Zilis has joined ##crawl-dev 23:16:40 -!- ProzacElf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:04 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:26 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:16 Grunt: Also something was added to replace pickup_mode = auto:X 23:19:20 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:34 Oh, there was? 23:19:38 I missed that :( 23:20:12 %git cabd7f2 23:20:15 07Cedor02 {|amethyst} * 0.14-a0-1836-gcabd7f2: Menu for pickup : new option 'pickup_menu_limit' 10(6 days ago, 5 files, 22+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=cabd7f2c3357 23:21:17 There should also be an entry for WebTiles supporting rc options. I'll try to remember to write that later. 23:21:31 -!- omnirizon has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:21:57 Medar: Do you think changing the spectator list to case-insensitive sort is worth doing? 23:22:14 Sure. 23:22:29 Ok, that should be a one or two line diff 23:23:28 -!- Voker57 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:40 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:20 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:23 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1949-gfab70a3 (34) 23:26:26 gammafunk: If you don't want to create a proper patch, you can just tell me what to change 23:26:36 Patch is always nice of course 23:26:54 gammfunk: what about adding a link for the player if they are not in chat 23:27:03 -!- tensorpudding has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:05 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:32:09 -!- gammafunk has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:22 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:34:23 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:35:56 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 23:36:55 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:33 -!- gnum has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:39 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 23:44:25 -!- archaeo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:54:06 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:55:40 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:57:40 -!- ssteam has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 23:58:10 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit]