00:01:14 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 00:01:19 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1413-g94b8a5e (34) 00:05:48 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-1413-g94b8a5e (34) 00:07:27 -!- Melandru has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:11:55 http://pastebin.com/brXAJNBu 00:12:14 fr: a really nasty spider 00:12:23 preferably with iron shot 00:16:16 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:17:12 iron spider (10s) | Spd: 15 | HD: 15 | HP: 59-92 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 2508(poison), 15 | web sense, !sil | Res: 06magic(40) | Vul: 09poison | Chunks: 09poison+07contam | XP: 970 | Sp: iron shot (3d28) | Sz: Medium | Int: insect. 00:17:12 %??wolf spider name:iron_spider n_rpl n_des col:cyan hd:15 spells:iron_shot 00:17:45 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:54 ...I did mention something about dis_grunt the last time I saw this, yes? 00:18:29 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1413-g94b8a5e (34) 00:19:18 -!- Pacra has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:19:18 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 00:19:46 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:30 -!- Cedor has joined ##crawl-dev 00:29:21 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:29:45 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:33:45 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:35:04 !seen dpeg 00:35:04 bh: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 00:35:04 I last saw dpeg at Mon Dec 9 03:26:30 2013 UTC (2d 3h 8m 34s ago) quitting, saying 'Quit: Lost terminal'. 00:35:22 !seen nonethousand 00:35:22 I last saw nonethousand at Wed Dec 11 05:14:36 2013 UTC (1h 20m 46s ago) saying 'in that query' on ##crawl. 00:35:28 !tell nonethousand wut? 00:35:29 bh: OK, I'll let nonethousand know. 00:36:50 -!- bh has quit [Client Quit] 00:37:22 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 00:39:15 <|amethyst> I merged and retitled a few of putridmelon's bugs 00:39:34 <|amethyst> App exits immediately on ESC during character creation => restart_after_game is not on by default 00:39:43 <|amethyst> and Ctrl-F in inventory screen does not work => Inventory menu help lists selection commands even when they are unavailable 00:39:53 -!- Marbit_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:43:11 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:43:51 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:46:33 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1413-g94b8a5e 00:47:49 bh: you said "1444 games, I'm leaving forever" or something 00:50:37 oh oops, he left 00:52:33 -!- conted has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:52:52 Grunt: hey, it was Doom's 10th anniversary 00:52:54 *20th 01:00:51 -!- poopfist42 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:02 -!- caleba has quit [Quit: caleba] 01:05:48 -!- yogaFLAME has quit [] 01:07:05 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:07:50 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 01:15:10 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:16:26 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:27:31 -!- thorgipup has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:28:00 |amethyst, still around here? 01:31:40 wait, dis_grunt? 01:34:30 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:03 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: night] 01:49:28 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 01:52:05 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:54:13 -!- scummos__ has quit [Client Quit] 01:59:02 -!- Dacendoran_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:59:25 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:59:48 -!- dtsund has left ##crawl-dev 01:59:54 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 02:01:04 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-1413-g94b8a5e (34) 02:05:05 if any dev is around, I have a quick questio about a part of the code 02:05:15 -!- jameyd has quit [Quit: jameyd] 02:07:34 -!- hurdos1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:22 Sure 02:08:32 nice :) 02:08:57 i lurk a bit on eating function (that need some revamp) 02:09:27 and I asked myself 02:09:40 item_def represent an actual item? 02:10:01 (i mean a generated item, on the flor or in inventory?) 02:10:36 AFAIK yes 02:10:58 in the case of eating, it's the item that will be eat 02:11:05 not the generic type 02:11:06 ? 02:11:16 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:11:47 What function? 02:12:25 for exemple : eat_floor_item 02:12:37 void eat_floor_item(int item_link) 02:12:37 { 02:12:37 item_def& food(mitm[item_link]); 02:12:55 here food is the actual chunk or permafood that will eaten? 02:13:05 Yes. 02:13:07 ok 02:13:11 Well, it can be a stack of that type of item. 02:13:17 So like 5 food rations 02:13:20 yes, ofc 02:13:27 but it's ok 02:13:33 I can cut some lines 02:13:35 thanks 02:14:20 -!- master_j has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 02:27:04 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:51 -!- flappity has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:56 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:23 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1414-g846016a: Update shopping list price when item is identified 10(8 months ago, 3 files, 31+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=846016ad5df5 02:40:37 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 02:41:03 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:41:09 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:44:10 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:47:11 -!- Trevize has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:51:26 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 02:55:59 -!- Zeor has quit [Quit: so long, folks] 03:00:56 -!- RedFeather has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 03:05:11 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 03:18:24 -!- Ragdoll has joined ##crawl-dev 03:20:00 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:00 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1415-ge301bcb: Fix line entries on old Firefox versions (#7816) 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e301bcbbad3c 03:25:02 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:27:11 -!- SwissStopwatch has quit [Quit: i read it as endless space jams i was like yeah i'd watch that movie over and over i guess] 03:30:14 -!- ZChris13 has joined ##crawl-dev 03:33:51 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 03:34:32 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:32 -!- nubcakes has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:35:39 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:47:02 -!- nht has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 03:50:27 Autoexplore never finishes in Shoals. by elliptic 03:52:56 elliptic: Was that with some form of detection? Remember it bugging out with Ash at least 03:53:16 oh, yes, that was with a DD so passive mapping 03:53:20 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:33 -!- honeybadger has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:04:59 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:41:01 food eating by Cedor 04:44:46 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:54:29 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:59:39 -!- Trevize_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:02:41 -!- jeanjacques has joined ##crawl-dev 05:16:48 -!- the_glow has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:56 -!- Vizer_ has quit [Quit: bye] 05:26:43 -!- paulsomebody has joined ##crawl-dev 05:27:44 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 05:33:02 -!- soundlus is now known as soundlust 05:33:05 -!- soundlust is now known as soundlusT 05:33:15 -!- PepeRC2 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:50:31 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: night] 06:06:24 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:19:07 -!- PsyMar has quit [Quit: I, Garland, will knock you all down!] 06:20:35 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:20:45 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:44:11 !tell Lightli in that vault: the doors fail to open simultaneously if you open one of them; a demonic crawler is a rather underwhelming spider for that task 06:44:12 kilobyte: OK, I'll let lightli know. 06:45:06 @??giant orange brain-wolf spider-iron golem chimera 06:45:07 chimera (giant orange brain, wolf spider, iron golem) (06H) | Spd: 12 | HD: 10 | HP: 35-73 | AC/EV: 2/10 | Dam: 2508(poison), 35 | evil, !sil | Res: 06magic(40), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 03poison++, asphyx, 12drown | Vul: 08holy | XP: 718 | Sp: brain feed, cause fear, shadow creatures, confuse, blink, 04esc:teleport self | Sz: Medium | Int: animal. 06:48:36 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 06:48:46 c - the +3 pair of boots of the spider {Jump, Stlth+} 1323 gold 06:48:50 Shouldn't that be +Jump? 06:50:35 I'd say so, yeah 06:50:38 perhaps; the brand is named this way 06:50:59 Yeah, the artp was removed, it's just a brand 06:52:27 could rename the brand's annotation 06:53:19 cloaks of darkness, too 06:54:29 that would be nice 07:04:00 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1416-gd9400cd: Rename armour brand abbreviations to +Jump, +Inv. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9400cdbbff4 07:06:49 Nice. What about Fly? 07:06:55 -!- Sgeo has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:04 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 07:11:57 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:13:01 -!- dagonfive has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:17:03 -!- ZChris13 has quit [Quit: This is not a desk. It is not being flipped.] 07:18:50 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:35:13 hrm 07:35:24 I noticed that faerie dragon armour's description doesn't mention the rNapalm 07:43:22 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:14 Medar: boots of flying work nothing like rings or artefacts of +Fly 07:46:45 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:46:50 I wonder, now that they're boots of levitation no longer, perhaps they could be always on? 07:47:25 Well, you still need to invoke them, but sure. 07:47:44 Not sure if that annotation is even used anywhere, so... 07:48:04 it is in character dumps 07:48:08 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 07:48:38 I feel like making them always on would just add interface annoyance 07:48:50 on %, too 07:48:52 Carrying extra boots, switching between them 07:52:09 why would you carry extra boots? 07:52:18 removing ones work just as well 07:52:25 Boots give AC 07:53:02 having that little extra AC while fighting that one titan is not going to make a difference 07:53:22 doesn't removing boots takes a while 07:53:26 take? 07:53:57 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:54:35 20 aut, just twice as long as evoking an ability 07:54:58 You are not just fighting that one titan though 07:55:10 Most common case I guess is clearing V:$ enterance 07:55:20 Or just the whole level, you don't need flight 07:57:07 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:57:50 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:58:43 -!- tsohg has quit [] 08:12:40 hrm, you currently can take off boots of flying while over lava, without ill effects 08:12:49 you just can't move to another square of lava 08:15:30 good trick to scare your spectators 08:18:45 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1417-g62711b3: Auto-enable boots of flying when you wear them. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=62711b3f9553 08:20:21 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:20:35 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 08:30:47 -!- ckyle has joined ##crawl-dev 08:31:59 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:32:23 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:17 -!- CKyle_ has quit [Client Quit] 08:44:45 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:46:17 -!- tabstorm has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:50:07 -!- Amy has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:55:12 -!- orionstein_away is now known as orionstein 08:55:46 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 08:56:05 -!- dpeg is now known as ragepeg 08:56:41 !tell kilobyte You... you... you reader! 08:56:41 ragepeg: OK, I'll let kilobyte know. 08:57:01 * ragepeg burns a few random books to calm down. 08:57:22 -!- ragepeg is now known as dpeg 08:58:03 dpeg: an alternative would be thinking up some way to make book burning meaningful 08:58:04 kilobyte: You have 3 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:58:20 kilobyte: I think it is meaningful: ever used books to kill a hydra? 08:58:23 because currently, it's purely theme and the occasional cloud of flame 08:58:51 killing hydras would mean standing next to one for multiple rounds 08:59:07 <|amethyst> make it scale with piety 08:59:13 no! you lay the books out in a hallway and call the hydra -- I've done it 08:59:18 <|amethyst> at high enough piety, make the books explode into a fireball 08:59:42 at some point, I'd like to get rid of (almost all) corpse sacrifices... with Trog, the piety lost there could go into books 08:59:52 fireball? You're thinking small. A full-LOS fiery blast! 09:00:06 |amethyst: and/or depending on total spell level of the book 09:00:15 (which currently informs flame duration iirc) 09:00:37 dpeg: that part is micromanagement 09:00:39 but I am really serious: I'll do anything to be able to burn books in Crawl 09:00:51 kilobyte: is it micromanagement if you cannot do it often? 09:01:05 I mean, depending on spell level 09:01:13 gotta teach... will throw some burning booklets at the class 09:01:19 kilobyte: ah 09:02:58 dpeg: i was thinking of an actual fully functional inventory page, just with unlimited slots (like in the pickup menu) and no weight 09:03:10 so dropping, examining and forgetting would still be possible 09:03:16 also burning 09:03:35 i would like to have exactly something like this for other strategic items btw 09:03:48 although dropping is even less relevant there 09:04:53 the benefits become pretty obvious when you try to imagine a crawl where gold takes weight and inventory slots 09:05:19 (also runes, which got goldified) 09:05:54 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 09:06:07 (also, weight and item destruction should be removed and slots should be the only inventory limiting mechanic, but that's a different topic) 09:08:32 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:10:40 the reason for weight is stackable items 09:11:03 what stakable items are destructible? 09:11:07 *stak 09:11:08 I don't care much about lugging a GDA and two crystal plates 09:11:11 *stack 09:11:22 any ammo, for example 09:11:31 scrolls and potions get used up, too 09:11:43 it gets destroyed when you fire it >.> 09:12:13 having a stack limit like in DoomRL could work 09:12:46 STR's influence on carrying capacity is purely bad, I'd say 09:13:16 weight could be argued to be a mater of realism, but alefury has a point here 09:13:33 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:13:59 s/mater/matter/, damn USians and their ideas about -t- vs -tt- :p 09:18:25 yeah, i think a stack limit might be necessary without weight 09:19:00 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:19:15 not sure though 09:20:10 unless it is very small (like, 1 for scrolls and potions), it wouldnt do that much 09:20:32 whether you have 5 or 10 potions of might on you very rarely matters 09:21:45 of course it matters more for potions with stacking effects like HW 09:22:39 the argument about not being able to reach your stash in some areas is valid, but the distinction is not that interesting IMO 09:22:52 <|amethyst> what about large rocks? javelins? 09:23:10 good point 09:23:28 -!- MaxFrosty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:31 an extreme version of stack size limits would be to not allow multiple stacks btw 09:23:44 of the same item 09:24:18 https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=7132 09:24:22 <|amethyst> does that include wands? 09:25:25 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 09:25:29 full consistency doesnt really make sense because stretching it to duplicate equipment would be weird 09:25:52 so some sort of arbitrary line would have to be drawn somewhere 09:26:14 <|amethyst> Allowing 5 of each potion but not 6 !HW and nothing else is also weird 09:26:32 having 52 slots is also weird 09:26:39 <|amethyst> true 09:26:46 they can hold a ring, or 500 arrows, or a plate armor 09:27:00 but you have a point of course 09:27:17 imo thinking about realism is pointless here, it's about established game mechanics 09:27:31 limited slots and weight is very well established 09:27:45 stack limits too 09:28:21 arbitrarily allowing duplicates for some items but not for others is probably a terrible idea :( 09:28:30 large rocks could just have stack size 1 09:29:09 id prefer one limit for consumables and one for ammo, but i guess it just doesnt work for the large throwables 09:29:43 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:30:34 well, i should amend the line about established game mechanics, clarity and consistency are just as important if not more 09:32:25 -!- marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 09:39:36 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 09:40:32 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 09:48:27 add wand bandoliers 09:51:29 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:52:06 -!- wheals_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:54:00 -!- wheals has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54:41 -!- freesalad has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:55:22 -!- imantor has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:55:48 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:56:01 -!- wheals_ is now known as wheals 09:56:54 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:04:49 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:05:00 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:49 Snorg (09T) | Spd: 10 | HD: 8 | HP: 96 | AC/EV: 0/10 | Dam: 20, 15, 15 | 10doors, regen, !sil | Res: 06magic(64) | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1134 | Sp: berserker rage | Sz: Large | Int: normal. 10:08:49 %??snorg 10:09:03 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:14:28 Do shape shifter simulacra still change shape? 10:18:24 <|amethyst> paulsomebody: yes 10:21:09 |amethyst: Awesome, thanks. 10:22:45 <|amethyst> any objections to removing the _is_religious_follower check from monster stair following? 10:23:36 -!- CKyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:24:11 <|amethyst> the result would be that aboms from TR, mercenaries, and other permanent allies can follow you more than 8 at a time 10:24:47 <|amethyst> (The idea being to reduce TR tedium) 10:24:58 Do it. 10:25:00 don't really see a downside 10:25:03 i suggested that quite a while ago (for TR in particular) and there was some opposition 10:25:11 MarvinPA: oh? 10:25:27 was that before summons stopped following you altogether? 10:25:41 MarvinPA: btw, I haven't really had time to look into what's breaking wrt summon changes - did any leads turn up? 10:27:15 i think the opposition was that it was relevant to balancing twisted res, i still think it would be a good change though (and twisted res should be changed in other ways to make it impossible to build gigantic armies and take them across levels, if necessary) 10:27:16 <|amethyst> Grunt: One issue is that many of the callers did things like if (!player_angers_monster) summoned_monster() 10:27:50 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018]] 10:28:20 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: yeah, I see the problem with being able to drop your whole load of aboms onto the Snake:5 rune vault in one go 10:28:37

you'd just be able to abuse it with less tedium, and tedium is a pretty bad thing to use as a bottleneck 10:28:46 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: but when no one's around it's just tedium... >tw...tw... oh hm, i thought twisted res aboms had been made to not regenerate health now and heal from merging 10:29:48 but i guess i imagined that 10:31:12 anyway i think twisted res is still sort of a problematic spell in general 10:31:56 indeed 10:32:07 too bad, as flavour wise it's pretty cool 10:37:25 -!- maahes has joined ##crawl-dev 10:37:53 -!- maahes has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:16 -!- maahes has joined ##crawl-dev 10:38:20 <|amethyst> so, the only issue I see with #6871 is that it removes regeneration from monster abominations as well 10:38:35 <|amethyst> err, from "natureal" ones 10:38:39 <|amethyst> s/real/ral/ 10:39:01 ...and? 10:39:25 They're encountered pretty rarely (unless you're making Abyss trips, in which case you're either fleeing from them or splatting them). 10:39:39 <|amethyst> hm, I guess that's a point about the abyss 10:39:46 <|amethyst> what about showing damage? 10:40:07 <|amethyst> hm 10:41:04 Well, my gut instinct (which I don't think would work very well) would be: if you made it yourself you know how intact it is; if you didn't you don't. 10:44:01 <|amethyst> hm 10:44:20 <|amethyst> I'll let them show damage for now; that can be tweaked later 10:47:53 -!- marbit has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:48:46 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 10:50:44 -!- ckyle has quit [Quit: ckyle] 10:50:44 -!- CKyle_ is now known as CKyle 10:51:21 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:51:51 -!- tsohg has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:40 -!- Yeti218 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:40 -!- tsohg has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:12 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:12 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 10:58:12 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 10:58:41 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:50 <|amethyst> Grunt: are you seeing the suggestions to remove orc knights/warlords/etc from Depths? 10:59:26 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:00:03 <|amethyst> Grunt: in part because of the plain orcs in their bands, but there are also claims that even the leaders are completely unthreatening 11:03:30 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:04:37 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1418-g9d082e1: Allow non-adjacent non-religious followers to take stairs. 10(33 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 12-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d082e1e3572 11:04:37 03dolorous02 {|amethyst} 07* 0.14-a0-1419-g2e2cdf5: Make aboms from twisted resurrection heal from corpses, version 2. 10(8 months ago, 2 files, 21+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2e2cdf5d5685 11:05:22 <|amethyst> These two aren't enough, but they're a start. We also probably want to cap the number you can have at one time (not sure how to deal with extra crawlies though). 11:06:09 <|amethyst> Also, someone should look into Cigotuvi's wizlab and the XXX spell 11:06:50 <|amethyst> since all aboms have NO_REGEN now 11:07:12 somehow i don't think XXX will have any problems :P 11:07:40 i guess the wizlab is probably okay since you can't hurt them and then leave it to heal 11:08:50 aboms from all sources are the same now, right? 11:08:57 no weird demonic/undead difference any more 11:08:59 <|amethyst> MarvinPA: right 11:09:27 ah yeah they're just purely undead 11:10:16 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1417-g62711b3 (34) 11:11:00 -!- Cedor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:11:00 <|amethyst> should have pushed that a few minutes earlier I guess 11:11:01 -!- slifty has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:11:19 -!- maahes_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:11:19 because that's such a critical fix 11:11:21 -!- maahes has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:11:41 <|amethyst> kilobyte: not critical, but getting testing and feedback would be nice 11:11:55 <|amethyst> I'm rebuilding CSZO for it 11:13:46 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1419-g2e2cdf5 (34) 11:13:51 -!- Cedor has joined ##crawl-dev 11:15:50 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:20:06 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 11:24:50 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:01 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-1420-g795142c: A couple of small adjustments to Depths monster set. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=795142ca3c2f 11:26:19 |amethyst: |amethyst: ^ 11:26:31 ...note to self: |amethyst is only one person <_< 11:26:42 Grunt: this hasn't been proven yet! 11:26:48 * |amethyst Sequells Sequell 11:26:48 * Sequell s |amethyst 11:26:54 <|amethyst> Sequell agrees 11:26:56 ...note to self: dpeg is |amethyst! 11:27:09 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:27:12 I wish! 11:27:38 <|amethyst> I have a friend who caused some consternation in Agora (the Nomic) by having an alt for a long time 11:27:45 My non-book burning, code-making sane other ego! 11:27:55 <|amethyst> eventually they had a series of CFJs about whether they were the same player for the purposes of the game 11:28:07 <|amethyst> I don't remember the resolution 11:28:25 "And the sentence is: Death!" <-- pretty easy 11:28:49 <|amethyst> oh, they even needed some legislation 11:29:04 you mean, there are online games where there are no alts? 11:30:22 <|amethyst> Ah, here was some of the legislation: http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~michaeln/agora/vreports/vr20030620.txt 11:30:49 <|amethyst> "Upon the adoption of this Proposal, the Gamestate becomes what it would be if Player A was always a separate Player from Player H; and if all of Player A's actions prior to 1 Jan 2003 00:00:00 UTC were solely Player A's actions, and were not Player H's actions." 11:31:44 omg 11:31:47 what is this? 11:32:26 <|amethyst> http://agoranomic.org/ 11:32:42 ag or anomic, that is what I see 11:32:47 <|amethyst> A legislation game, essentually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic 11:33:29 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:35:04 the rules are very long 11:35:13 <|amethyst> alefury: it's been going on for 20 years :) 11:35:30 Rule 2401: Registration Yaks 11:35:38 (not consecutively numbered) 11:35:53 Rule 2138: The Interstellar Associate Director of Personnel 11:36:02 it certainly seems a bit strange 11:36:22 <|amethyst> alefury: Any player CAN, with Agoran Consent, cause this Rule to amend itself by replacing "Interstellar" with an yother single word beginning with "Inter" in its text and title. 11:36:51 awesome 11:37:53 -!- LexAckson has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:12 -!- alefury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Iceweasel 25.0/20131102041233]] 11:39:30 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:19 -!- tsohg_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:44 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:04 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:44:31 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:45:47 -!- tsohg has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:46:28 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 11:46:47 -!- Marbit has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:48:57 Saint Roka (12o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 18 | HP: 200 | AC/EV: 3/10 | Dam: 35 | 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, fighter, priest, evil | Res: 06magic(72) | Vul: 08holy | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 5756 | Sp: smiting (7-17) | Sz: Medium | Int: high. 11:48:57 %??saint roka 11:50:28 -!- Markten has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:51:28 Crash when identifying wand by BlackSheep 11:51:28 Auto-ID of "clarity. by dck 11:54:58 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:55:59 <|amethyst> hm, #7850 is related to the shopping list 11:56:04 <|amethyst> %git :/shop 11:56:04 07Medar02 * 0.14-a0-1414-g846016a: Update shopping list price when item is identified 10(8 months ago, 3 files, 31+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=846016ad5df5 11:56:08 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 11:56:45 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:08 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:57:08 Let's see 11:57:41 <|amethyst> Medar: shop == nullptr after get_shop in item_type_identified 11:58:04 -!- G-Flex_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:58:18 Ok 11:58:27 !tell SamB gdb self-attached during a crash shows version info and no warranty spam, but nothing else 11:58:27 kilobyte: OK, I'll let samb know. 11:58:32 <|amethyst> Medar: ohh 11:58:37 <|amethyst> Medar: the shop might not be on this level 11:59:32 <|amethyst> Medar: you'd need to use a level_excursion I think 12:00:28 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 12:01:50 Hmpf. 12:04:31 Think I'll just revert. 12:05:23 <|amethyst> let me try the excursion 12:05:34 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 12:05:40 Sure, go ahead. 12:09:51 -!- Psyknux has quit [Quit: My work is end \(^o^)/] 12:13:46 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:16:24 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:25 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:20:29 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1421-g745e1e2: Sort the ex-sabre quote into the right place. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=745e1e2732ce 12:20:29 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1422-g20bcdcf: A quote for the Shoals. 10(43 seconds ago, 1 file, 9+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=20bcdcfcf42a 12:20:50 is there a reason to close Pan/Abyss/Hell entrances upon picking up the Orb? 12:20:59 you can still get banished by other ways 12:21:23 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-1423-g480ceb4: Don't put chinese punctuation after newline when wrapping text. 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 58+ 60-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=480ceb4a0c1e 12:21:23 03Translators02 {galehar} 07* 0.14-a0-1424-gc52bd50: [Transifex] english monster descriptions (tenofswords). 10(49 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c52bd50e4069 12:21:23 03Translators02 {galehar} 07* 0.14-a0-1425-gad534d4: [Transifex] Sync. 10(76 seconds ago, 85 files, 1293+ 1418-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ad534d4a29d7 12:22:20 how come when i evoke my staff of energy, it says nothing happens? 12:22:24 ??staff of energy 12:22:24 staff of energy[1/1]: When wielded, reduces spell hunger to nothing and also can be evoked for {channeling}. 12:22:30 ??channeling 12:22:30 channeling[1/1]: Converts food into mana. The staff succeeds (evo+11)/40, 50 hunger, 1d3 MP; Wucad Mu (evo+1)/25, 50 hunger, 1/5 div miscast, otherwise 2+d5+evo/3 MP; Sif power 60+INT+inv %, 100-300 hunger, d(2+inv/4) mp. For reference, merely resting will recover 14+maxMP per 600 nutrition, at standard metabolic rates. 12:22:45 Because you are failing. 12:22:56 ah because i need more evo apparently 12:23:03 Maybe it says that if you have full MP also. 12:23:15 ive only been trying when im low 12:27:31 -!- NilsBloodaxe has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:28:53 jspanek2 (L11 DDNe) (D:10) 12:29:14 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1426-g2d3e126: Don't crash when IDing an off-level shopping list item (#7850) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 9+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2d3e126591a2 12:29:14 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-1427-gf73237a: Use history in &( 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f73237ab5c0f 12:29:15 <|amethyst> !lm jspanek2 crash -log 12:29:15 No milestones for jspanek2 (crash). 12:29:16 <|amethyst> !lm jspanek2 crash -log 12:29:17 1. jspanek2, XL11 DDNe, T:14274 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/jspanek2/crash-jspanek2-20131211-182850.txt 12:29:30 <|amethyst> same crash 12:30:04 <|amethyst> rebuilding cszo 12:30:28 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1427-gf73237a (34) 12:31:22 <|amethyst> Medar: btw, this seems to not identify rods? works for magical staves and wands 12:31:46 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-1428-g250cf21: Revert the removal of translations for "strange machine". 10(6 minutes ago, 3 files, 14+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=250cf21fd0d1 12:32:17 -!- evilmike has joined ##crawl-dev 12:32:34 <|amethyst> oh, never mind 12:32:35 |amethyst: rods are like weapons, ie, not all rods of the same type have identical looks 12:32:38 <|amethyst> yeah 12:32:48 <|amethyst> I was faked out by a coincidence 12:32:52 <|amethyst> more like books I guess 12:33:05 considering that they share most of the code, yeah 12:33:13 <|amethyst> Medar: never mind me :) 12:34:19 jspanek2 (L11 DDNe) (D:10) 12:35:06 !lm jspanek2 type=crash -log 12:35:07 2. jspanek2, XL11 DDNe, T:13999 (milestone): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/jspanek2/crash-jspanek2-20131211-183417.txt 12:35:22 same 12:36:10 -!- agentgt has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 12:36:17 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 12:36:30 <|amethyst> !lm jspanek2 x=tiles 12:36:31 2269. [2013-12-11 18:34:17] [tiles=true] jspanek2 the Reanimator (L11 DDNe) ? (D:10) 12:36:45 he didn't transfer 12:37:12 <|amethyst> yeah, and they're not playing currently so I can't tell them it's fixed 12:42:04 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:44:53 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:48:05 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:27 -!- valtern has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:54:14 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:56:07 -!- Basil has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:09 -!- ckyle_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:05:49 dpeg: thanks for responding to the Scoring page on the dev wiki. I'll be able to write/think more on it in the next few days 13:06:12 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 13:14:00 nonethousand: I am happy I noted it ... don't visit dev wiki daily, like I used to do 13:14:21 nonethousand: but when play gets very competitive, I am not sure we can do much about it :( 13:15:27 dpeg: well elliptic suggested the idea which inspired my post but his support for aut-scoring wasn't rooted in preventing degenerate play as much as just getting rid of player turns I think 13:15:55 yes, that is a good idea in any case 13:16:21 but as I thought about it I began to believe that such a switch would have added bonuses for score-optimizing play 13:16:36 I think the main mechanical problem that remains is spider form movespeed 13:16:45 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:18 -!- Vaporware has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:23 nonethousand: if that's the case, we could special-case & penalise moving as a spider for scoring 13:17:33 -!- syllogism has joined ##crawl-dev 13:17:49 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:17:54 (no effect but for aut-counting the score) 13:18:05 -!- Vaporware is now known as DrinkMachine 13:18:55 yeah that's certainly possible. On the other hand maybe we should consider whether spider form should be allowed to give net fast movement when swiftness is not? 13:20:56 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:22:23 nonethousand: or that... although Swiftness was more troublesome 13:29:00 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:32:44 -!- _D_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:33:08 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:36:03 swiftness doesn't nuke your AC and equipment bonuses 13:36:30 and your weapon unless you're unarmed 13:36:31 -!- lukano has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:05 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:37:33 Bloax: Well the thing is here is mainly traveling 13:38:26 -!- raskol has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:38:52 nonethousand: boots of running, spriggans, centaurs, felids, nagas, bat form, mutations... 13:39:17 i hope you didn't like scoring if you're going cheibriados 13:39:32 because your score just got nuked because oh my look at your turncount 13:40:16 kilobyte: yes, from discussions in the other channel the best idea I've heard is to somehow factor in the average aut/player turn by race 13:41:42 kilobyte: the proposal is to have a racial score multiplier to handle the fast/slow species 13:41:44 maybe track the number of turns spent moving? 13:42:21 what if I start the game with glowing boots in view? Guess which brand. 13:42:22 for the other stuff, nobody seems to like -1 delay boots of running anyway, so I was thinking of changing boots of running to be evocable newswiftness 13:42:36 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:42:48 kilobyte: is that so different from starting a game with a very powerful weapon in view? 13:42:51 and making fast movement mutation not appear randomly seems fine to me 13:43:07 I don't have a great idea for transformations though 13:43:21 did i really cause all of this 13:43:27 or chei? 13:43:28 Bloax: huh? 13:43:30 +1 for the boots (not from scoring purposes) 13:43:36 wheals: chei being bad for speedrunning seems fine to me 13:43:40 it's in chei's flavor :P 13:43:42 ok that's true 13:43:46 removing several game features just because of something as little meaning as scoring seems backwards to me 13:44:11 kilobyte: of course, but the running boots change is be good regardless of that 13:44:13 I'm exploiting as much as possible to score high because why not. 13:44:18 kilobyte: well, I don't think fast movement mutation is really a "game feature" 13:44:22 but should scoring be exactly the same as speedrunning 13:44:42 kilobyte: anyway, my primary motivation for this is killing player turns 13:44:54 wheals: getting as many runes as quickly as possible is definitely a decent metric for "good at Crawl" 13:45:06 since currently they confuse players regularly and their only purpose is scoring (and they don't do a great job there) 13:45:18 wheals: it's pretty hard to come up with something better 13:45:59 elliptic: have you been around when we still had old scoring? 13:46:03 kilobyte: I'd be fine with other, different changes that also permit removing player turns 13:46:15 * kilobyte has a strong hunch we'll be removing Swiftness soon as something no one uses. 13:46:15 * Sequell also has a strong hunch we'll be removing Swiftness soon as something no one uses. 13:46:18 dpeg: that was back in 0.3 or 0.4 or something, so no 13:46:18 i guess so, though once you get to the high ranks of speedrunning it's not like you'd be using chei anyway 13:46:32 elliptic: that was even worse! :) 13:46:33 kilobyte: uh, what? swiftness seems very useful to me 13:46:39 kilobyte: no no, I don't think so 13:46:42 and others have said they find it useful too 13:46:47 wheals: It actually works somewhat well. 13:46:55 * dpeg makes a note to start using Swiftness so that kilobyte cannot remove it. 13:46:55 He's not quite the best though. 13:46:55 I'm not against removing speed mutations, though. Both MUT_FAST and MUT_SLOW, preferably. 13:47:01 it even maybe saved my life on orbrun last game 13:47:40 kilobyte: well, mut_slow is at least interesting 13:47:58 <-- is always for the pain 13:48:55 kilobyte: anyway, so far I am only suggesting changes that I think are good for the game independent of scoring, or which seem fairly neutral (which is what removing MUT_FAST and/or MUT_SLOW seems to me) 13:48:56 -!- lukano has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:49:24 I'm not going around saying that we should make spider form slow you just for the sake of aut scoring :P 13:49:46 -!- Marbit has joined ##crawl-dev 13:49:52 (I do think that spider form design isn't great anyway though, so if there's some interesting change that happens to make it work better for scoring... ;)) 13:50:13 Aut scoring doesn't really seem like a better idea than turn scoring. 13:50:29 Although there's only that much you can spam haste. 13:50:55 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:51:38 Bloax: go and read what nonethousand wrote on the dev wiki 13:52:22 -!- browncustard has joined ##crawl-dev 13:52:28 -!- bonghitz has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:53:47 I see no way to adjust racial scoring in a way that's not totally arbitrary 13:54:40 so aut score would be about "which race's benefits are most underestimated by the scoring formula" 13:55:16 -!- blackcustard has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:55:34 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1429-g8c392e7: Send some rc file options to the WebTiles client 10(6 days ago, 7 files, 145+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8c392e7901cc 13:55:34 03edlothiol02 {Medar} 07* 0.14-a0-1430-gbbbd08c: Make the --print-webtiles-options call asynchronous. 10(6 months ago, 2 files, 61+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bbbd08c43b47 13:55:34 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1431-g7b1756b: Handle versions that don't have WebTiles options 10(6 days ago, 2 files, 18+ 16-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7b1756b2f248 13:55:34 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1432-g1efe4d4: Update display when getting new WebTiles options 10(6 days ago, 3 files, 18+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1efe4d44ae08 13:55:34 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1433-gef88b8e: Add support for a few config variables in WebTiles 10(6 days ago, 4 files, 85+ 33-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef88b8e1006b 13:55:34 03Medar02 07* 0.14-a0-1434-g5058716: Reverse no_json_options logic and rename 10(6 days ago, 2 files, 7+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5058716c2222 13:55:48 anyway, the boots idea is great 13:56:43 Let's see what breaks... 13:57:17 well i hope you have flight if you get shoals 13:57:31 because otherwise your score is going to be ruined by all the water 13:57:50 -!- Foamed has quit [Quit: Heading to bed.] 13:57:52 I don't care about the score, I care about the game. 13:58:28 kilobyte: multiply the aut from movement by 10/6 for spriggans, 10/7 for centaurs, 10/8 for felids, and 10/12 for nagas? 13:58:43 kilobyte: it would just be a multiplier for Na/Fe/Ce/Sp, based on the data we have currently for what aut/turn is like for them 13:58:51 the game tracks the number of turns you move, right? 13:58:53 dpeg: I'm pretty sure we're doing all these wacky things because we find it fun going for the lowest amount of turns. :p 13:58:53 !lg * recent aut>0 !chei won s=crace x=avg(aut/turn) 13:58:54 3718 games for * (recent aut>0 !chei won): 382x Minotaur [8.9], 377x Gargoyle [8.94], 269x Demonspawn [8.95], 208x Hill Orc [8.97], 175x Deep Elf [9.05], 160x High Elf [8.94], 143x Deep Dwarf [9.06], 142x Troll [9.05], 133x Lava Orc [9.88], 127x Spriggan [6.69], 126x Merfolk [8.79], 124x Centaur [7.33], 115x Tengu [8.8], 115x Ogre [9.01], 112x Draconian [8.95], 106x Kobold [8.69], 103x Human [8.98... 13:58:58 it dumps the turns you do other things 13:59:01 !lg * recent aut>0 !chei won s=crace x=avg(aut/turn) o=avg(aut/turn) 13:59:02 3718 games for * (recent aut>0 !chei won): 98x Naga [11.17], 133x Lava Orc [9.88], 97x Djinni [9.13], 19x Formicid [9.11], 74x Octopode [9.09], 75x Mummy [9.08], 143x Deep Dwarf [9.06], 175x Deep Elf [9.05], 142x Troll [9.05], 115x Ogre [9.01], 38x Sludge Elf [9], 103x Human [8.98], 208x Hill Orc [8.97], 269x Demonspawn [8.95], 112x Draconian [8.95], 377x Gargoyle [8.94], 160x High Elf [8.94], 91x... 13:59:20 almost all species are close to 9 aut/turn on average 13:59:41 elliptic: why not just track number of moves? 14:00:13 wheals: because that doesn't actually improve anything compared with the status quo 14:00:21 |amethyst: Pushed WebTiles options stuff. config.py needs send_json_options = True to enable spectators getting their own options, other than that everything should work with without server restart 14:00:52 we'd still need to display two turn counts (score turns now instead of player turns), and people would become burdened to heal more quickly while moving back and forth 14:00:53 it means that swinging a weapon at the air won't help you, that's an improvement 14:01:22 -!- t4s0thcmdr has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01:40 Time to spam regeneration and swing a quick blade. :D 14:01:49 okay, it stops one exploit for serious high-score people, but it leaves others and as I said my main motivation is making there only be one turncount in crawl 14:02:27 Bloax: spamming regeneration is a good strategy -- that's what the spell is for 14:03:01 elliptic: i see your point about leaving some exploits, but there'd still be just one "length of game" stat 14:03:06 Bloax: very rapid healing at the cost of mp, food (most races) / glow (Dj) 14:03:16 elliptic: it's just that that stat wouldn't be used directly for calculating score 14:03:19 I would like to raise a minor exception to the notion that score is an unimportant issue. I think it can keep games fresh for good players, speedruns draw >10 tiles spectators not infrequently. I tend to think of crawl alongside arcade games and with a superior scoring system then I see the potential for score to become a more seriously competitive domain 14:03:38 -!- ckyle_ has quit [Quit: ckyle_] 14:03:53 ??rebuild 14:03:54 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild http://rl.heh.fi/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte, |amethyst, or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 14:04:26 The most 'degenerate' things in speedruns at the moment seem to be about health regeneration. 14:04:38 so the score would be based on (aut-from-actions-besides-moving) + (aut-from-moving * racial-modifier) 14:04:40 Which includes things like swinging a scroll and walking through water (with Chei). 14:05:27 elliptic: i don't see where "player turns" come into my formula 14:05:44 wheals: I didn't say "player turns", I said "score turns" 14:05:52 which is what that thing would basically be 14:06:17 I guess we wouldn't strictly need to display that value anywhere, but that would be confusing in its own ways 14:06:36 ??score 14:06:36 score[1/3]: [modified XP + gold (capped at 1000000) + 1000*(#runes)*(#runes + 12) + if won: 250000 + (#runes + 2)*2000 + 6250000000*(#runes)^2/(1+turns)], capped at 99999999 14:06:49 ??score[2 14:06:49 score[2/3]: Modified xp = 0.7 * xp up to 250,000 + 0.4 * xp between 250,000 and 1M + 0.2 * xp between 1M and 3M + 0.1 * xp above 3M. For an XL27 character, this works out to roughly 0.5M + XP/10. Note that there is an XP cap of 9M. 14:07:08 nonethousand: this is true, but I am worried about damaging the experience of average players 14:07:27 nonethousand: also, macro free real time for speed score :) 14:07:48 dpeg: you mean, no autoexplore and autofight? 14:07:57 kilobyte: these are in-game commands 14:08:09 might as well make webtiles clientside 14:08:10 realtime speedruns are a little hard to regulate macro usage for, yeah 14:08:12 I don't want bot competition 14:08:14 autofight is a lua script, just shipped with the game by default 14:08:31 unless lag is a legitimate factor in how fast you play 14:08:41 well score is already weird, and i think my hack is better than the finding the average aut/turn hack 14:09:11 dpeg: but what about stuff like autopickup customization in rcfile? 14:09:19 wheals: the formula is not that weird: it strives to find a balance between fast 3-runers and all runers. 14:09:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:09:36 elliptic: heck, I wouldn't know. "vanilla init file 14:09:41 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-1434-g5058716 (34) 14:09:41 " you could say 14:09:45 dpeg: phooey, i was hoping the next tournament would have a "bot writing" part 14:10:03 I can't play with vanilla settings comfortably at this point 14:10:17 dpeg: that balance is simple: "all runers are worth more". Which makes sense. 14:10:18 dpeg: to draw a comparison with arcade games: There are healthy communities of these "average" players, who try to win, and players who play for score. I don't think a good scoring system affects the former group much? 14:10:24 dpeg: oh, ok i see it 14:10:31 dpeg: in that case you'll get a lot of people who'll just refuse to compete for these hypothetical realtime speedruns :P 14:10:36 * kilobyte wonders why Ziggurats don't count into the score. 14:10:55 i wonder why "1+turns" is there instead of just turns, though 14:11:06 legacy, i suppose 14:11:16 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 14:11:16 wheals: so that it doesn't break if you win in 0 turns! 14:11:21 wheals: I guess because of wizmode 14:11:50 nonethousand: average players don't care about the score, of course (although it is necessary that more progress early on equals higher score -- which is the case); I was talking about gameplay changes for the sake of score. 14:11:57 i was going to say if you're a mummy and overflow the turn counter 14:11:59 1tell grunt if special_room_morgue is just annoying I can readily make it stronger :P 14:12:09 but i guess that's what apocalypse is for? 14:12:33 dpeg: oh absolutely we should not be willing to make the game worse for the sake of scoring. 100% behind that rule 14:12:33 huh, i always kind of wondered why it exists 14:12:43 Realtime speedruns are pretty biased at the moment either way. 14:13:16 (I wasn't serious about real time. Turn/aut/whatever speed runs are much more interesting.) 14:13:26 they were never changed since crypt's overhaul anyway 14:13:34 (And you're right.) 14:13:44 (they're tons of fun though) 14:14:39 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:14:56 there are other possible factors. Bring back xp display, score = urune/xp 14:15:12