00:02:08 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 00:02:19 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:04:01 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-630-ga64525a: Get rid of a strange accessor. 10(77 minutes ago, 6 files, 7+ 14-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a64525a6adf4 00:04:01 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-631-g771ae3a: Simplify a #define logic. 10(65 minutes ago, 3 files, 7+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=771ae3aa73a8 00:04:01 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-632-g33db154: Don't attach gdb in debug builds unless --gdb is given on cmdline. 10(20 minutes ago, 3 files, 19+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=33db154a4c69 00:06:00 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-629-g748cab2 (34) 00:06:11 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-629-g748cab2 (34) 00:07:33 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-633-g3bc35ec: Unbreak Windows. 10(40 seconds ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3bc35ec9ab68 00:24:13 -!- 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Regression tests for distance_iterator. 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 25+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=855aa56ea2d2 01:24:58 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-636-g185d426: Regression tests for adjacent_iterator. 10(63 seconds ago, 1 file, 38+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=185d426d3e6f 01:28:06 -!- moxian_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:54 -!- xoai has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:36:51 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:21 -!- kait has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:52:12 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:53:07 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-637-gc45bec6: Remove the Fear effect from Recite 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 40-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c45bec61d095 01:53:07 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-638-g7e7ad92: Apply antimagic recite effect more often, but only to spellcasting monsters 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=7e7ad92fa9d0 01:53:07 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-639-g1b7c251: Reveal traps in a labyrinth vault 10(19 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b7c251a9c6d 01:53:07 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-640-g15b01f7: Remove a labyrinth vault 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=15b01f7d3f2b 01:53:34 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-629-g748cab2 (34) 01:54:36 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:56:48 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 01:59:09 -!- Vizer has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:06:32 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 02:15:26 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:23 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 02:17:24 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-640-g15b01f7 (34) 02:17:49 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:20:09 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:21:01 -!- SamB has 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SamB__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:34:28 -!- simmarine__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:08 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:35:12 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:37:43 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 03:39:29 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:52 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:40:26 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:40:53 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: yes] 03:41:53 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:42:50 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:44:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-641-g41ab938: Remove a runed door 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=41ab9386bff8 03:44:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-642-g3098da7: Don't place clouds over the lava in layout_cross 10(10 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3098da740d84 03:44:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-643-gceeb0d9: Remove another dispelling + lava vault 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 27-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ceeb0d94d3bd 03:44:03 03MarvinPA02 07* 0.14-a0-644-g80c6c4d: Shrink a statue vault 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 11+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=80c6c4d321db 03:44:30 -!- SamB__ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:45:48 -!- crate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:52 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 03:46:36 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:47:56 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:49:59 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:50:48 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:40 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 03:52:54 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:53:56 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:54:46 -!- SamB__ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:52 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 03:57:14 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:57:39 -!- kait has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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-!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:32:00 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 07:32:28 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:32:42 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:33:59 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:34:01 -!- SamB has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:57 -!- SamB_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:03 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:37:49 -!- SamB__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:01 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:40:00 -!- SamB__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:02 -!- SamB_ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:41:59 -!- SamB__ has joined ##crawl-dev 07:42:05 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 07:42:41 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 07:43:39 -!- dpeg has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:44:38 -!- Morg0th has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45:14 -!- SamB_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45:59 -!- dpeg has joined ##crawl-dev 07:46:16 -!- Morg0th has quit [Client Quit] 07:47:43 -!- KLANG has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:18 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:58:35 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-645-gb9975d1: An cmdline option: -no-gdb. 10(6 minutes ago, 2 files, 10+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b9975d15a484 07:59:32 -!- Porost has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:02:22 -!- rast- has joined ##crawl-dev 08:03:03 -!- rast has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:16 -!- rast- is now known as rast 08:07:13 -!- ark_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:32 -!- Foamed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:13 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-646-g124d22f: Add some player-usable item lua: fully_identified, plus, plus2. 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 55+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=124d22f310f0 08:21:14 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:39 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:45 -!- SkaryMonk1 has joined ##crawl-dev 08:24:04 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:36:40 -!- Zilis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:03 -!- nonethousand has joined ##crawl-dev 08:39:16 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:39:33 -!- nonethousand_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:43:57 -!- Voker57 has quit [] 08:51:44 -!- Zilis has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:21 -!- djanatyn has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:01 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 08:54:10 -!- tinybat has quit [Quit: tinybat] 08:58:09 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 09:01:37 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:06:28 -!- LexAckson has joined ##crawl-dev 09:12:33 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 09:14:12 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 09:15:30 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26:56 -!- ketsa has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:33 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 09:46:01 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:51:26 -!- buppy has left ##crawl-dev 09:51:39 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:28 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:38 -!- Foamed has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:59 Re dungeon-split, does the current branch entry saving code gracefully handle suddenly having the lower half of the dungeon replaced? 09:59:12 (thinking of save compat here) 09:59:41 it should, at least wrt branch exits/entrances 10:00:11 vaults placed or not on a given depth is another story, but at least branch entries have a non-vault fallback 10:01:06 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:01:21 I wouldn't push anything without testing, of course 10:02:11 First comes balacing out the monster set, then comes testing to see if everything works as intended, then comes the push if it does what it's supposed to. 10:03:03 |amethyst, perhaps dungeon-split is something that warrants an experimental branch? (I'll want to update it to current trunk before then...) 10:07:04 -!- Goncyn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:09 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:36 <|amethyst> Grunt: maybe merge in elf-vaults too? 10:07:36 |amethyst: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 10:07:43 And I always thought the proper workflow is this: first push, then test, finally think! 10:08:21 |amethyst: it would require fixing travel first 10:08:21 ...perhaps a branch called "dungeon-restructure" to hold both :) 10:08:27 dpeg: <3 <3 <3 10:08:35 <|amethyst> speaking of which 10:08:57 <|amethyst> does anything prevent merging the dwants branch with kilobyte's updates? 10:09:20 <|amethyst> into trunk I mean 10:09:22 |amethyst: pretty much no one likes their implementation of digging 10:09:27 |amethyst: no, I'd absolutely support that 10:09:36 especially as it does outside changes. 10:09:44 kilobyte: yes, but it'll get much better feedback from trunking 10:10:18 <|amethyst> I think that's two commits that would need to be reverted 10:10:39 <|amethyst> one that makes digging doing more wall removal, and one that gives it to some orcs 10:11:00 |amethyst: the latter was revered. 10:11:02 *reverted 10:11:04 <|amethyst> ah 10:11:05 I think? 10:11:51 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-647-g5dd52e4: Don't protect the Abyss bot from wretched stars. 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=5dd52e477953 10:11:51 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-648-ge52b86b: Add an assert against the walking dead. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e52b86ba6ee3 10:11:55 the last I looked, it had both the weird digging for anyone, all forms of digging being very loud, and orc sorcerers having dig 10:12:36 * dpeg mentions 4.1.2 pan lord digging as escape which was widely considered as very cool 10:12:53 (I believe it can only be cool if very few people do it.) 10:13:14 any idea why delete_mutation(force=true) would fail? http://sprunge.us/ehhf gets four mutations/deletions, only two get reverted. 10:13:16 <|amethyst> dpeg: care to explain for us newbies? 10:13:20 and xom uses force 10:13:49 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 10:14:01 |amethyst: monsters have escape spells and I've heard (didn't ever do extended back then) that pan lords would use dig as the escape spell in the spellset 10:15:53 That would involve fleeing, I'd imagine? 10:15:56 yes 10:16:21 <|amethyst> kilobyte: what am I looking for in that dump? 10:16:35 A monster with dig that flees can already use it for escape purposes. 10:16:43 ...or perhaps s/already/again/ 10:17:04 <|amethyst> kilobyte: ISTR there was a problem with temp mutations on top of innate ones; perhaps also normal mutations on top of innate ones 10:17:08 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:17:25 <|amethyst> kilobyte: but I'm not sure which are the problematic mutations you refer to there, since there are a lot more than just two or four 10:17:30 <|amethyst> in that dump 10:17:45 I'm very tempted for asking for the dark maul in the zigsprint starting room. 10:19:02 Because it'd both be awesome and terrible (spending a lot of time per attack in an entire horde of monsters? Great plan!) at the same time. 10:22:35 03Grunt02 07[dungeon-split] * 0.14-a0-654-ge5c4303: Merge branch 'master' into dungeon-split 10(2 minutes ago, files, + -) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e5c4303b6233 10:23:08 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-649-gc978a30: Add the dark maul to zigsprint (Bloax) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c978a3052dc2 10:23:10 -!- SkaryMonk2 has joined ##crawl-dev 10:23:12 <|amethyst> Bloax: ask and ye shall receive 10:23:34 |amethyst: Xom granted frail then forgot to remove it 10:23:58 -!- ebarrett has quit [] 10:24:00 (and then the game continued for ages with hp: -2/-2 before finally crashing) 10:24:14 -!- SkaryMonk1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:15 <|amethyst> kilobyte: something to do with this? 10:25:16 <|amethyst> if (one_chance_in(1000)) 10:25:16 <|amethyst> return false; 10:25:30 that's only for random mutations 10:25:38 <|amethyst> oh, right 10:25:47 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:51 <|amethyst> kilobyte: 10:26:51 <|amethyst> if (orig_mutation[i] > you.mutation[i]) 10:26:52 <|amethyst> mutate((mutation_type)i, "Xom's lifesaving", true, true, true); 10:26:52 <|amethyst> else if (orig_mutation[i] > you.mutation[i]) 10:26:52 <|amethyst> delete_mutation((mutation_type)i, "Xom's lifesaving", true, true, tr 10:27:09 <|amethyst> kilobyte: note the conditions 10:27:26 ghrmblah 10:32:28 indeed, it was this. Thanks! 10:34:36 -!- Roarke has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:34:42 -!- GreatSpiff_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37:18 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:01 -!- SkaryMonk2 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:08 -!- SkaryMonk has joined ##crawl-dev 10:47:17 |amethyst: yay, thanks 10:51:52 phew, c-r-d mail sent 10:52:13 kilobyte: thanks for reply -- your ideas are interesting, but they warrant talk and thought, imo 10:52:33 the lock is conceptually simple (it also aims for much less) 10:52:44 * kilobyte mutters about SourceForge's slow mail servers. 10:52:55 they add half a page to junk to every mail, too 10:53:20 kilobyte: they have to whip the mail rabbits into shape every time someone pushes the Send button 10:53:21 does anyone know procmail&friends enough to axe the stuff? 10:54:29 dpeg: as for Jiyva and runelock being different things: I was responding to galehar's remark 10:55:33 big +1 to the dungeon structure finally changing, it was intact since early 2.x pre-DCSS, other than AFAIK just the Lair roulette 10:55:44 re crd stuff, i'd also prefer to try the runelock with no shaft for a while, since it has a bunch of problems as pointed out 10:56:03 -!- SkaryMonk has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:56:09 kilobyte: yes, yes, I know -- was just trying to keep things focused 10:56:18 MarvinPA: yes, I made a blunder there -- sorry to everyone 10:56:22 -!- dpeg is now known as dunderpeg 10:56:41 kilobyte: yes (on dungeon structure) 10:57:45 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 10:57:46 and yeah grunt's D split branch seems like it could be good regardless of whether runelock remains a thing or not 10:58:00 I don't personally consider runes being done at the end a problem -- to the contrary, they're good endgame stuff. 10:58:30 I'd say the biggest problem is elsewhere: that a 3-runer means always the same three runes (modulo the roulette) 10:58:45 which making them even easier only makes worse 11:00:03 making the minimum 5 runes or so would solve this particular problem, except that pretty much everyone (me included) agree that the game is too long 11:00:09 yes 11:00:16 splitting D seems like a good idea, 27 levels of the same stuff aren't really good for anything but the magic number 11:00:40 Zaba: indeed, the magic number shouldn't guide our design anymore than "realism" 11:00:54 on the other hand, forcing folks to do one of 4S early isn't bad. What if they lost their runes? 11:01:12 kilobyte: I see what you mean, but I really like the concept of an in-between tough battle. Maybe that's because I was raised on shmups with their boss fights. 11:02:26 So I like a power curve of "start out weak, build up some power, use that power to fight a boss (first climax), stroll around for a bit, building more power, crush nemesis (second climax)@ 11:02:27 Boss battles are generally a good way to indicate that you've entered a tougher area. 11:02:33 [gtg in 8 minutes] 11:02:35 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:02:38 me too! 11:03:05 tougher is nice, I'm not dismissing the runelock idea, especially if we make pre-runelock areas more diverse 11:03:15 my beef is in it using _runes_ 11:03:37 ie, something that, if you get them from 4S, you won't need to get elsewhere 11:03:53 kilobyte: what else could I have used? Rune was very natural for me, with Zot using three runes 11:03:57 I would like to say that the current bosses in crawl are some of the highlights of a game (Z:5, V:5) and having an earlier one would be nice from a pacing perspective, and also give beginners a definite and satisfying goal before winning 11:04:22 nonethousand: yes, that is why I think new players would actually benefit a bit from the lock 11:04:22 <|amethyst> dunderpeg: one possibility would be putting the stairs to D:15/Depths at the bottom of the 4S branches 11:04:24 S:5 seems natural to me, 11:04:56 -!- dsawwwww has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:04:56 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:56 |amethyst: kilobyte will love the cycles in the dungeon graph that creates :) 11:05:04 a more interesting dungeon graph would be great - don't need an overworld for that, either 11:05:24 i think ADOM's animated forest is a great example of this 11:05:34 A split up dungeon also gives a big benefit to the game. 11:05:38 |amethyst: alright, this would achieve something very similar to the rune lock -- but is the difference to "pick up rune and use that" so big? 11:05:47 more randomness 11:06:06 though making that randomness new is going to be somewhat tough at this point 11:06:28 <|amethyst> I think using runes is fine, but I see kilobyte's point of wanting to encourage players to pick up a different set of three runes 11:06:32 requiring 5 runes would be pretty hard to compensate for (with game length in mind) 11:06:32 Bloax: always... but possible, as we've seen. (It's just that setting up a branch properly is actual work.) 11:06:51 kilobyte: what about putting Elf into the early rune cycle? 11:07:10 replacing the demonic rune with an elven rune would be a godsend 11:07:11 weird idea, but what if each branch had an exit deeper that could only be opened by a particular rune not found in that branch? 11:07:16 Orc:4 has loot, Elf:3 could have a rune 11:07:35 key exchange :) 11:07:36 Eronarn: and you can even randomise these effects across games! 11:07:48 Elf:3 is about hazardous enough to keep the status quo along with a rune. 11:08:09 Bloax: I kind of like the demonic rune; not always having 4 fixed pan lords could be an alternative 11:08:19 dunderpeg: yes, exactly - so getting to the last level of a branch = lets you know what rune you need, beating that level = gives you a rune you might need (but might not even be able to use, if it's the key to a branch you can't do) 11:08:33 kilobyte: The four fixed lords is the good part of the pandemonium if anything. 11:08:47 * kilobyte runs away. See you in two hours! 11:08:51 l8rs 11:08:55 See you tomorrow! 11:08:58 abyss rune seems like an okay one to remove if we need one less rune 11:09:07 MarvinPA: true 11:09:24 since that would also free up the abyss to focus only on being "bad place that you sometimes get sent to" 11:09:34 hellpan really doesn't need 9 runes, it adds so much awfully boring length to the game 11:09:37 I was just thinking: a way to break up early game monotony could be having one more rune in the early part, and ask for two :) 11:09:46 instead of that plus "place that you need to go to by choice later to 15rune" 11:09:49 Pan is much more fun than hell. 11:09:57 MarvinPA: yes, and rid us of the annoying abyss rune hunt 11:10:11 except when you have to wander it for an eternity looking for that one rune that doesn't spawn in a recognizable place 11:10:18 and then spend just as long finding an exit 11:10:25 i don't think it's so bad now with the 5 floors but i still wouldn't miss it 11:10:26 alright, I'm off as well 11:10:27 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:34 -!- dunderpeg has quit [Quit: cheers] 11:10:57 i'd rather see more early runes, like lair or elf 11:14:37 putting a rune in crypt/forest was mentioned in the past too i think, abyss rune could potentially be shifted to there too 11:16:48 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 11:17:05 I am excited by the idea that a not-simply connected dungeon could make for interesting decisions on the orb run 11:17:20 i.e., do I run through D or through V->elf (or whatever) 11:17:53 I should say, a dungeon with cycles 11:18:24 would really love to see an ability to, on the orb run, go back to everywhere you got a rune from and put it back 11:18:44 cycles would make that not totally awful 11:18:48 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-649-gc978a30 (34) 11:19:00 <|amethyst> Eronarn: and then you take the orb to the bottom of the abyss and fight Linley Hinzell 11:19:02 "you can move forward, but never back" 11:19:04 <|amethyst> s/Hinz/Henz/ 11:19:24 Just a side comment re dungeon-split - I'm kind of aiming for it to put the game in such a state that the presence or absence of runelock will not noticeably impact player behaviour. 11:19:26 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:19:34 <|amethyst> It turns out the bottom of the abyss is actually Australia 11:19:50 Grunt, would you mind elaborating on that? 11:20:20 (if it's just a general idea at this point, that's fine ofc) 11:20:53 -!- bmfx has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:21:08 nonethousand, IIRC one of the motivations for starting on this whole project was rebalancing mid-to-late-D monster sets to avoid the problem of "mid D is boring, and clearing through it makes what normally comes immediately afterwards more boring as well". 11:21:38 I could be remembering things completely wrong, but it stuck in my head that mid D could use some changes if not outright removal in favour of late D. 11:22:06 I don't think you're misremembering 11:22:24 I recall something to that effect being discussed 11:22:53 mid-to-late-D monster set is a lot better playwise than some lair branch sets IMO 11:24:12 elliptic, that's more a problem with Lair than it is with mid-to-late-D IMO. 11:24:24 isn't that what I just said? 11:24:56 or do you actually mean Lair, in which case I don't understand 11:25:03 I mean Lair branches, sorry. 11:25:04 I think the point is, a removal of some floors of mid D doesn't help if the actual problem is lair branches 11:25:13 They're both problematic im my mind. 11:25:50 swamp and shoals have a lot of annoying and/or very weak monsters, snake simply has very few types of monsters 11:26:49 Spider has orb spiders. 11:26:52 I'm not opposed to shrinking D by cutting out some of the middle and such as you've been working on 11:27:06 but lair branches honestly bother me a lot more if we are talking about monster sets 11:27:12 Which wouldn't be a problem.. If they didn't launch actual OoDs at you. 11:27:34 Instead you get bombarded with homing orbs of hurt. 11:27:45 By an enemy you most likely can't catch. 11:34:11 Polymorphed slimes remain peaceful under Jiyva by Siegurt 11:35:38 -!- PolkaDot has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:37:23 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:43:46 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 11:45:34 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:50 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 11:45:57 -!- CKyle has quit [Client Quit] 11:47:40 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 11:55:27 -!- mrwooster has joined ##crawl-dev 11:56:53 hi guys, does anyone here have any working knowledge of how footv works? specifically regarding how it puts together the tty file based on the -tv command in irc... 11:58:04 looking at the rawdata folders, it appears that the tty recordings are split across several files for a single game (presumably when players pause their game)... I am trying to work out how to put together a complete tty file for a single game programatically 11:58:53 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:59:43 mrwooster: I don't know much about how it works, but the repository for footv is https://github.com/greensnark/dcss_tv 12:00:35 -!- crawrsfasaawfe has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:01 -!- Stelpa has quit [Changing host] 12:02:59 perfect, should be able to work it out. wasnt sure if the code was publicly available. Thanks 12:06:45 -!- UglyThing has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:07:08 -!- scummos has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:09:14 -!- NomadJim has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11:25 -!- rast has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90-rdmsoft [XULRunner 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 12:11:50 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12:34 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:13:28 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:13:47 -!- DMcHale92 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17:17 -!- eith has joined ##crawl-dev 12:19:19 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 12:30:46 * Grunt just watched MPA play through Elf:3 and feels like relating his latest bad idea involving deep elf death mages and Borg's. <_< 12:31:02 (no, this is not particularly a serious suggestion; I think it would play terribly) 12:37:31 -!- scummos has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:34 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 13:02:10 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:03:44 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:11:28 -!- Aryth has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:43 -!- ChickenWing has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:16:29 Erolcha comes into view. She is wielding a giant spiked club. Erolcha shouts! Erolcha points at you and mumbles some strange words. _You are cast into the Abyss! 13:16:46 (This is the second or third time something similar has happened to me...) 13:17:23 -!- valtern has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:18:28 -!- Aryth1 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:18:54 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:21:23 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 13:30:46 -!- blabber has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:33:48 -!- Quashie has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:37:12 -!- bmfx_ is now known as bmfx 13:38:48 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 13:43:40 -!- gnsh has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:44:18 -!- tinybat has quit [Quit: tinybat] 13:53:07 -!- rossi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:57:45 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 14:01:41 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 14:07:34 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:10 -!- klang has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:14:34 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:41 -!- ldf has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:17 -!- mrwooster has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22:28 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:15 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:26:17 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-650-g397eda1: Fix a brown-paper-bag bug in Xom lifesaving. 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=397eda1b8084 14:26:17 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-651-gfcf5eff: Fix a monster-in-a-wall crash on banishment. 10(20 minutes ago, 1 file, 5+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fcf5eff77ab0 14:26:17 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-652-g25ffe6c: Hush a warning on 32 bit. 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=25ffe6c635d8 14:27:41 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 14:28:43 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 14:29:29 -!- simmarine_ is now known as simmarine 14:29:33 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 14:30:17 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:30:43 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:21 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:36:26 Don't timeout repel/deflect missiles by argonaut 14:40:51 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 14:45:01 -!- Nex has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:50:00 -!- ark_ has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 14:50:13 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 14:51:37 Ashenzari interaction with Macabre bone necklace by Valarioth 14:56:50 -!- moxian_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:33 -!- CaptainHorfe has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:01:44 Burn Spellbooks description incorrect by Skrybe 15:05:41 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:06:35 -!- yalue has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:08:30 -!- Nightbeer has joined ##crawl-dev 15:10:49 -!- valtern has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:01 -!- oneeyedjack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:13:56 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-653-ga3bdc66: Update the desc of "Burn Spellbooks". 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a3bdc66f9e91 15:14:29 -!- bmfx has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:21:28 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:21:51 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 15:23:29 sorry for the noise from when my net connection was on the blink ... 15:24:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:25:00 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 15:26:29 -!- SamB__ is now known as SamB 15:27:49 -!- darktwinge has joined ##crawl-dev 15:29:48 -!- Twinge has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:51 -!- oneeyedjack_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:41:07 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:46:50 -!- dmchale92 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:49:49 -!- zoopp has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:53 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:51 -!- ChickenWing has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:54:07 -!- ark__ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:45 -!- noo88i3 has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:56:21 -!- Mateji has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:56:59 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 16:01:43 -!- Venter has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:04:06 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 16:06:52 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:07:25 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:12 -!- y2s82_ has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 16:11:52 03galehar02 07* 0.14-a0-654-gd679754: Revert "Allow D:14 shafts, make them known; try to always place one." 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 3+ 37-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=d67975441494 16:12:20 ~ 16:12:29 Hi galehar. 16:12:45 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:13:02 Any thoughts on the current state of dungeon-split? I feel like I'm not the best person to make balanche decisions of that magnitude. 16:13:12 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 16:13:19 (it seems to be going over fairly well with people so far though!) 16:15:16 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-655-gff3ae3e: More runelock shaft clean-up. 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 10+ 34-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ff3ae3e07d48 16:15:31 as far as I know, the only real changes are among the monster set, right? 16:15:51 aren't there also quite a few less levels? 16:15:59 Depths is six levels. 16:16:12 and 15 levels in D, or was it changed to 16? 16:16:16 I dithered over whether it should be more or less for a while. 16:16:18 D is 15 levels. 16:16:31 There was speculation about making it 14 for consistency with current trunk. 16:16:35 (IMO 16 better for powerfulness) 16:18:09 make it 20, plus an equivalent of V:1-4 :) 16:18:57 (clearly put V at the bottom of D and have the gate into Zot slightly higher up) 16:19:10 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:20:48 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:15 -!- Twinge has joined ##crawl-dev 16:22:01 Grunt: I'm not really qualified to comment about balance and monster set. Although what you're doing in dungeon-split seems promising. Sorry I can't be more helpful :) 16:22:19 -!- Foamed has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:24:29 -!- darktwinge has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:26:24 -!- LexAckson has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:06 elliptic, I do want to give some thought about Lair branch monster sets in the not too distant future too. 16:28:43 -!- tenofswords has joined ##crawl-dev 16:28:58 or alternatively, we can shorten the Lair (assuming the rune lock dies) 16:29:22 or in both cases, try to split the Lair as well 16:30:12 even a defanged version of, eg, Swamp could work 16:31:04 what's wrong with Lair? I'm not necessarily opposed to shortening it, but how does that help with lair subbranch monster sets being bad? 16:32:28 I think "lair" means "lair branches" here? 16:32:39 ...or am I misunderstanding tings? 16:32:42 s/tings/things/ 16:33:12 looks like some folks could meant Swamp/Snake/... by "Lair" 16:33:26 still, 8 levels is quite a lot 16:33:55 I personally consider early D in most need of work, because it's all what bad players see 16:33:56 I'm certainly in favor of shortening swamp/snake/... to 3 levels each or something like that if that's what you meant 16:34:08 what is wrong with early D? 16:34:20 I guess the orc < lair thing 16:34:25 uhm no, making them shorter would make them even less deserving of having runes 16:34:31 -!- Brokkr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:42 early D is really repetitive 16:34:43 well what were you saying then 16:34:50 kilobyte> or alternatively, we can shorten the Lair (assuming the rune lock dies) 16:35:03 since I have no idea what you meant now if you didn't mean Lair and didn't mean the subbranches 16:35:32 -!- eith|2 has joined ##crawl-dev 16:35:39 I was addressing earlier concerns about Lair's monster sets; these concerns are mostly not mine 16:36:46 !lg * !boring s=place 16:36:49 2172551 games for * (!boring): 536447x D:1, 381014x D:2, 352682x D:3, 251236x D:4, 130227x D:5, 91251x D:6, 58855x D:7, 47795x D:8, 33370x D:9, 28832x Abyss, 26096x D:10, 19800x D:11, 14920x D:$, 12941x D:12, 11666x Sewer, 9980x Lair:1, 8966x Orc:4, 8932x Abyss:1, 8450x D:13, 7495x Lair:2, 6519x Lair:3, 6261x Bailey, 5910x Ossuary, 5555x Lair:8, 5551x D:14, 5334x Lair:4, 5220x Orc:3, 4424x Orc:2, ... 16:36:54 !lg * !boring place=D place 1954689. gregunderscorem the Chiller (L1 MfIE), slain by a gnoll (a +0,+2 whip) on D:1 on 2013-11-05 22:36:09, with 47 points after 171 turns and 0:03:30. 16:37:17 early D is the least repetitive place in the game IMO 16:37:38 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 16:37:49 mostly because you quite rarely see it compared to other places 16:38:17 er, compared to other people 16:38:21 not that I would mind improving it further, but it already has a lot of variety and vaults 16:39:18 I agree that it is the most important region in the game to get right designwise, but I'd be interested in how you would like to improve it 16:42:26 mostly by monster set affinities, I think. Right now monsters get selected via noise, there's no theming beside bands. 16:43:00 -!- Aryth has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:43:01 well, there's the gnoll serial vault; do you mean stuff sort of like that? 16:43:32 -!- Kellhus has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:43:38 there is also the castle vault, which can have a couple different early monster sets 16:43:39 if it were less interspersed with unrelated junk, yes 16:43:58 personally I get tired of fighting the same monster over and over again on a single level 16:43:58 the castle is a better example, yeah 16:43:59 -!- rast has joined ##crawl-dev 16:44:38 I think serial vaults suffer from being thrown around a quite large level 16:45:40 yeah, though the castle suffers from being quite dangerous (at least with gnolls and orcs) and excludable 16:45:47 if a new player's game lasts an hour but sees only D:1-4, then either individual levels should be smaller or things in them more organized 16:45:59 -!- Heat__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:46:31 good point, but theme doesn't need a bump in difficulty 16:46:49 (although of course more difficult stuff is more likely to be remembered) 16:47:06 -!- eith|2 is now known as eith_ 16:48:36 -!- thened has quit [Quit: thened] 16:48:57 -!- Garhauk has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:50:11 -!- jday_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:50:33 -!- Quashie has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:52:25 aside from that dropped idea for a early weak-demons-themed portal vault I'd like to hear of what sensibly fits d:1-4 that doesn't already get coverage or just-slightly-later incarnations 16:53:24 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 16:54:05 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:15 tenofswords: it's quite hard to design new D:1-4 monsters, as most niches are already full, so it would need to be mostly a matter of making existing monsters not just mixed together without any scheme 16:57:02 20 just-slightly-later-incarnations minivaults, got it 16:57:04 a gnoll serial vault ends up merely increasing the amount of randomly spawned gnolls on the level 16:57:21 what do you mean by "incarnations"? 16:57:35 (it'd have to be 40 to drown out the quite-excellent current D:1-4 0s vaults) 16:57:53 (also let's scrap all 0s vaults) 17:02:20 [incarnations is "without doing totally random things combined with very strict difficulty limits it'd be a lot of early minivaults echoing the vast amount of already-made minivaults but who cares] 17:02:45 -!- rdx has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:03:29 I'm thinking more about assigning what "0" means rather than making vaults 17:03:59 which is against the point of 0 17:04:07 which could be implemented in a number of ways, some involving map-less (or not) vaults, some not 17:04:57 monster sets could be made but as elliptic said less randomization in placing stuff instead of more sounds bad (aside from completely cutting out the chance for d:1 trash) 17:08:19 -!- Nakatomy has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:08:58 -!- djanatyn1 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:17:44 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 17:20:01 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:48 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:34 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 17:22:48 Hi ontoclasm; you're just in time for my latest tiles-related tweak to land. 17:24:03 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-656-gc48e75b: Tiles: display the off-hand weapon for two-headed ogres and ettins. 10(71 seconds ago, 13 files, 77+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c48e75bd6550 17:24:49 yet another stabbing reminder of noodlearm tiles 17:29:27 every time i see those lumpy, muscle-less mitts 17:29:36 i feel a sharp pain in my heart 17:29:57 ooh, grunt, i had a tiny suggestion 17:30:05 Let's hear it? 17:30:05 make the Depths one floor longer 17:30:14 Oh? 17:30:20 * kilobyte looks at the light red O and fails to see the problem. 17:30:28 then 15 floors of Dungeon + 7 floors Depths + 5 of Zot 17:30:30 = 27 17:31:06 kind of a silly reason but 17:31:23 (I guess there's a deeper reason for elliptic suggesting D be 16 levels after all <_<) 17:31:45 hah 17:31:46 * kilobyte revokes your arithmetics privileges. 17:32:01 16 + 6 + 5 seems better, yes :P 17:32:01 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:09 16/6/5 is also fine 17:33:27 still unhappy at the prospect of D:13-16 vaults not getting to place giants with 8s 17:33:35 -!- Moanerette has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:34:42 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:29 tenofswords: it's a matter of defining the OOD cap higher than the lowest level 17:35:43 you need to do that to be able to customize OODs 17:36:07 the fork in question just outright drops the possibility from D 17:36:08 and even enable them, really, as otherwise they'd just be same as the deepest level 17:36:14 It's not as though we're done adjusting the monster set in question. 17:36:41 Right now dungeon-split has an OOD cap of 20 (if D ends up being 16 levels, it'll be the same +4 as it was before). 17:36:51 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-657-gbe5af28: Hush a warning. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be5af282845c 17:36:53 (also am annoyed the purging is the kind of stuff I wanted for V but) 17:36:56 ...and I trimmed a lot of the monsters from the list that fell outside that range. 17:37:22 If we want specific monsters to appear as out-of-depths in D, they're easy to add in as a flat D:20 chance. 17:37:49 or not just flat D:20, to support milder OODs 17:38:13 That too. 17:38:31 (I'm thinking specifically of 8s or really late D 9s here.) 17:46:01 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:49:37 -!- keszocze has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:52:24 -!- Kenran has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:53:41 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:47 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:00:15 -!- gnsh has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:55 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:03:48 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:03:48 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Changing host] 18:03:48 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 18:05:45 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:43 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:11:06 Basil (L24 SpBe) ERROR in 'libutil.cc' at line 1022: screen write out of bounds: (1,8) into (80,7) (Zot:5) 18:14:25 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:57 -!- gnsh has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:20:10 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:21:32 -!- clouded_ is now known as st_ 18:22:48 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:19 -!- gnsh has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:46 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:26:11 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:28 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:32 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 18:27:45 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:31:32 -!- Wolfram has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:37:23 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 18:39:26 -!- ldf has quit [Quit: ldf] 18:41:28 -!- gnsh has joined ##crawl-dev 18:42:11 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-658-gf07a810: Fix view.feature_at() not handling unseen squares properly. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f07a810f8ea5 18:43:03 -!- codehero has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:19 -!- scummos^ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:43 -!- DaneiTHREE has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:29 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:00:50 -!- alefury has quit [] 19:04:08 -!- eith has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:40 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 19:05:28 -!- dondy has quit [Quit: ninja kapow] 19:06:41 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Quit: BirdoPrey] 19:08:09 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:23 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:14:29 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 19:15:48 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:01 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:16:28 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 19:17:04 -!- soundlust has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:25 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:27:33 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:20 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:30:29 Is it a bug that ?brand can abyss you? 19:30:35 -!- OneEyedJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:31:16 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:31:27 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:31:33 if it's through trying to brand distortion, not really 19:31:59 araganzar just got abyssed by using it on a distort weapon that he wasn't wielding 19:32:31 -!- rchandra is now known as runelockplusgood 19:32:59 -!- runelockplusgood is now known as rchandra 19:33:06 doesn't it prompt you to wield the weapon you're branding? 19:35:01 -!- Shade_Tornado has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:35:10 nope 19:36:12 it used to, but not any more 19:36:16 <|amethyst> It doesn't actually wield the weapon anymore 19:36:31 <|amethyst> possibly that distortion thing should only happen if you are wielding it 19:36:47 |amethyst: I'd go with '%s/possibly //' 19:37:04 <|amethyst> since the intent was to prevent using brand weapon to avoid distortion unwield 19:38:18 or maybe brand weapon should do the unwield effect 19:38:32 if you be wielding it 19:38:56 <|amethyst> SamB: that's what I meant 19:39:07 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:39:08 <|amethyst> by "that distortion thing" 19:39:43 I meant maybe it should do that for everything, not just disto 19:40:04 (followed by the wield effect of the new brand) 19:40:05 <|amethyst> does anything else have an unwield effect? 19:40:11 {contam} 19:40:15 "stops dripping with poison"? 19:40:18 etc. 19:40:26 maybe you should be able to get around disto unwield effect with it; it's not like the scrolls are common 19:40:39 another reasonable proposal 19:40:50 <|amethyst> bh: You can't rebrand artefacts, though 19:41:44 bh: yeah, that kind of thing had occurred to me but then I remembered "oh but undrands can't be rebranded" ... 19:41:52 <|amethyst> hm 19:43:19 <|amethyst> SamB: well, it's not dripping with poison if you're not wielding it, so it can't really stop doing so 19:43:38 |amethyst: I meant *if* it's wielded 19:43:38 <|amethyst> oh 19:43:43 <|amethyst> right, sorry :) 19:44:05 <|amethyst> I wonder if rebranding antimagic leaves you with reduced mp 19:44:10 <|amethyst> wielded antimagic 19:44:43 probably does? 19:44:58 unless that's actually done statelessly? 19:45:17 <|amethyst> unwielding antimagic does calc_mp 19:45:35 <|amethyst> so stateless in a sense, but you have to say it changed 19:45:46 so at least you could fix it by wielding another antimagic then 19:45:53 (and unwielding again) 19:46:00 <|amethyst> yeah 19:46:00 <|amethyst> hm 19:46:04 <|amethyst> another possible issue 19:46:05 or probably by any number of other things 19:46:06 <|amethyst> if (you.duration[DUR_WEAPON_BRAND] == 0) 19:46:06 <|amethyst> { 19:46:06 <|amethyst> rebranded = true; 19:46:08 <|amethyst> _rebrand_weapon(wpn); 19:46:11 <|amethyst> } 19:46:19 <|amethyst> that doesn't sound right if you're not wielding the weapon 19:46:34 indeed 19:52:17 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 19:53:20 -!- jbeatty has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:25 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-659-gc575ec7: Prune and simplify Pan monster generation logic. 10(36 minutes ago, 6 files, 20+ 49-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c575ec780f51 19:56:25 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-660-ga6557fe: Draw random demon types in Pan from the local pools first. 10(35 minutes ago, 1 file, 37+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a6557fe2ad13 19:56:25 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-661-g2962626: Add some low-weight spawns to major Panlord levels. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 17+ 11-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=29626268ecc2 20:05:10 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 20:07:56 ??bots 20:07:59 bots[1/2]: Bots that can be pm'd: Henzell (CAO, !), Gretell (CDO, @), Sizzell (CSZO, %), Lantell (CLAN, $), Ruffell (RHF, #), Varmin, Cheibriados (%), and Sequell (! mostly) 20:08:05 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 20:09:49 ??bots[2 20:09:50 softignore[1/2]: Bots too annoying? If you have the right client, try this: 20:10:02 ??softignore[2 20:10:03 softignore[2/2]: For Irssi: https://github.com/nwohlgem/irssi-stuff/blob/master/scripts/softignore.pl CREDITS TO VINCENT FOLEY! 20:13:22 -!- Somebot has joined ##crawl-dev 20:15:23 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:16:15 -!- tksquared_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:32 -!- fungee has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:16:55 -!- jbeatty_ has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:17:06 -!- Somebot has quit [Quit: okay bye] 20:18:04 -!- Zifmia has quit [Quit: Wrong button bad with computers] 20:18:08 -!- Stelpa has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:15 -!- Moanerette_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:18:15 -!- Valarioth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:19:24 -!- Pacra has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:44 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 20:23:20 -!- wheals has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:23:27 -!- Nex has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:24:20 -!- m1nced has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:25:51 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:26:04 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:28:31 +1 for making rebranding distortion only give an unwield effect if you were wielding it 20:29:16 -!- jbeatty has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:29:34 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:06 -!- xFleury has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]] 20:38:34 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 20:39:43 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 20:42:53 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:44:47 <|amethyst> btw, I know we removed the XP total from dumps and E, but it's possible to get the information from kills_by_place 20:58:02 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 21:07:16 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:08:35 I got 3 entrances to zot in my game, is that a bug? 21:08:50 can ghosts take shafts? 21:09:26 buppy: where? 21:09:30 buppy: that shouldn't happen any more... 21:10:45 my fault 21:10:57 NSUBST: ' = 1:Z / 2 : Z:1 `:4 / *:` 21:12:07 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-662-gef5ebca: A handful of minor panlord vaults. 10(8 minutes ago, 1 file, 110+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ef5ebcae411a 21:12:07 03Grunt02 07* 0.14-a0-663-gfc8c466: Derive some Pan entry vaults from the just-added mini panlord vaults. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 63+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc8c466e35bf 21:12:54 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:56 nice blizzard demon island 21:16:39 do random monsters get generated in special vaults? like ossuary 21:17:12 Portal vaults? 21:17:13 They can be. 21:17:23 Generally the map has to say so, though. 21:17:51 Oh, actually, some portal vault branches do have basic monster lists. 21:18:10 i mean, if i stay here forever 21:18:38 if the vault has flag no_monster_gen then no 21:19:36 no portal branch I can think of doesn't have that flag 21:27:29 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:27:57 -!- frogor has joined ##crawl-dev 21:28:07 -!- frogor has quit [Changing host] 21:28:07 -!- frogor has joined ##crawl-dev 21:30:22 -!- frogor has left ##crawl-dev 21:32:19 -!- ackack has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:33:47 ??tengu 21:33:48 tengu[1/7]: Basically humanoid with bird-like heads and clawed feet, the Tengu can wear all types of armour except helmets and boots. Gets temporary flight (with refractory period) at XL5, perm flight at XL15. While flying from any source, has +20% evasion (caps at +9 ev) and a -1 to movement delay. 21:33:49 sorry 21:35:09 here's some dwant patches which reverts the digging changes: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=VKenzdS2 21:36:20 (there's another commit in there too that I forgot to send earlier) 21:38:52 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:39:30 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 21:45:47 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:46:25 -!- VolteccerJack_ is now known as VolteccerJack 21:53:02 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:27 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:54:39 -!- rossi_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:55:47 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:49 -!- trckry has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:55 guess what one lair branch end vault I'm stuck on after editing almost all others, win a prize 21:58:40 hmmmm spider? 21:58:55 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:11 that is not a vault, that is a branch 22:00:06 -!- tenofswords has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:14 how is lair changing? 22:00:33 I don't think we have a plan as yet. 22:00:48 oops <_< misread 22:02:17 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:29 -!- TAS_2012v has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:16:29 -!- BirdoPrey has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:17:29 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:43 -!- rax_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:18:45 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:23 -!- greensna1k has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:26 -!- |amethys1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:32 -!- Grunt_ has joined ##crawl-dev 22:19:39 -!- kunwon1 has quit [Quit: Specialization is for Insects] 22:19:50 -!- dexap has quit [Changing host] 22:20:10 -!- Grunt has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:20:11 -!- Grunt_ is now known as Grunt 22:20:11 -!- kunwon1 has joined ##crawl-dev 22:22:53 -!- orionstez is now known as orionstein 22:23:28 -!- magicpoints has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- djanatyn has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- gammafunk has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- crate has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- GreatSpiff- has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- Furril has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- Vizer has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- Nstar has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- greensnark has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- alaspooryorick has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- Henzell has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- rax has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- Wah has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- flappity has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- |amethyst has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- staplenun has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- Schwer-Muta has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- orionstein_away has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:28 -!- paxed has quit [*.net *.split] 22:23:34 -!- gammafunk_ is now known as gammafunk 22:24:44 unknown monster: "hydra-hydra-snozzcumber chimera" 22:24:44 %??hydra-hydra-snozzcumber chimera 22:25:12 why did you do that? 22:25:20 tileschat 22:25:31 chimera (06H) | Spd: 10 | HD: 13 | HP: 53-91 | AC/EV: 0/5 | Dam: 18 per head | Res: 06magic(52), 09poison+++, 08acid+++, asphyx, 12drown | XP: 914 | Sz: Big | Int: animal. 22:25:31 %??hydra-hydra-the royal jelly chimera 22:26:41 royal hydra 22:27:34 closest monster to a food item I'm aware of 22:28:28 the royal jello 22:28:31 !send minislime_mu SamB 22:28:53 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:27 Zannick: I mean if there weren't a "the" it would be perfect 22:30:18 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 22:30:19 -!- Henzell has joined ##crawl-dev 22:33:50 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 22:39:35 -!- MaxFrost has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:57 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41:14 -!- Sovek has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:42:37 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 22:53:33 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:35 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:01:32 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 23:03:39 I'm thinking of giving the player an abyss exit after they see enough tiles 23:03:46 This should lower the variance in the time to find the exit 23:07:38 -!- assembler has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:08:06 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 23:08:51 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 23:09:09 -!- GuraKKa has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:10:49 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:18:59 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:21:24 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:59 -!- Firentis has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:22:55 -!- DrinkMachine has joined ##crawl-dev 23:25:46 Just a heads up to whom it may concern, the Sprint page isn't updated for the addition of ||||||||||||||| 23:26:59 What Sprint page? 23:27:12 -!- DrinkMachine has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:20 http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Sprint 23:27:23 Sprint 23:27:54 We're not really related to badwiki, other than being the authors of the game that they deal with. 23:29:01 Ah, so this is not to channel to find said person 23:29:07 Fair enough! 23:29:15 I wonder 23:29:18 ??linesprint 23:29:18 linesprint[1/1]: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 23:29:20 moreover our experience with badwiki (and why we call it badwiki) is they reject updates 23:29:31 ??||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 23:29:34 "vandalism" (no, I am not exaggerating) 23:29:46 they do not seem to know the meaning of wiki 23:29:52 lol 23:30:19 So you guys don't really accociate with them 23:30:30 we would if they'd let us 23:30:39 Ah 23:33:29 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 23:33:47 maybe someday there will be a thaw 23:34:28 Btw, who upkeeps http://s-z.org/crawl-dev/ 23:34:38 It's automatically updated. 23:34:56 IIRC it's logged by the bot Cheibriados, who's run by |amethys1. 23:34:57 er 23:34:57 s/upkeeps/hosts 23:34:59 |amethyst. 23:35:07 -!- nonethousand_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:35:08 |amethys1: fix your nickame :b 23:36:24 I'm trying to work out what sort of phrasing to use on it 23:36:52 -!- tinybat has quit [Quit: tinybat] 23:37:56 -!- nonethousand has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:27 Grunt: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9741 23:44:46 -!- Blazinghand has joined ##crawl-dev 23:44:52 bh: there was talk of removing abyssal rune earlier, fyi 23:45:06 03elliptic02 07* 0.14-a0-664-g14990cb: Move demonic guardian 2 and 3 earlier on average (simmarine). 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=14990cb9db96 23:45:08 elliptic: I heard 23:45:16 If the abyssal rune is gone, we should throw out Abyss:2-5 23:45:39 why? 23:45:55 why would anyone go deeper if you don't get a rune? 23:45:59 ^ that 23:46:00 SamB: more exits 23:46:11 hardly worth the risk 23:46:13 I go deeper even if I don't care about the rune and just want to leave 23:46:28 and I recommend other people to do the same 23:46:42 starting from what XL is that useful? 23:47:25 bh: I'd say fewer monsters on abyss:1 is "hardly worth the risk" of spending more time in abyss :P 23:47:28 SamB: depends on the build. I'd guess Spriggan XL17 23:47:32 SamB: XL 1 23:47:43 elliptic: huh 23:48:14 I probably wouldn't go deeper than abyss:3 as is though 23:48:30 !lg araganzar 23:48:31 1628. araganzar the Ducker (L4 SpAK), worshipper of Lugonu, blasted by an orc priest (divine providence) on D:4 on 2013-11-06 05:21:48, with 171 points after 2793 turns and 0:06:58. 23:48:43 SamB: at XL 1 you can't fight anything, and more exits is good 23:48:52 hmm, point 23:49:24 elliptic: what would you be doing in the abyss at XL 1? 23:49:25 so are there XLs where you wouldn't want to go deeper? 23:49:31 anyway, I'd agree at least that the abyss needs rethinking if the rune is removed, since then abyss is only being used as a dangerous place to send players 23:49:57 elliptic: do you think any of my proposal has merit? 23:50:15 -!- crate_ is now known as crate 23:50:34 What's the argument for dropping the rune? Do we really want a rune somewhere else? 23:50:43 Or because it can be used to thwart runelock? 23:51:01 SamB: if I'm playing a character who is able to fight abyss:1 fairly well and also isn't good at running from stuff (because of lack of swift/fly/haste or because of chei or something), I might stay at abyss:1 23:51:22 see the backlog from yesterday, there was talk of having more early runes in order to make 3 rune games potentially more varied 23:51:24 bh: the "dedicated rune vault levels" sounds cool 23:52:23 MarvinPA: As a non-extended player, I'd prefer to see an extended rune on the block before abyss 23:52:28 bh: for 1), I sort of feel like excruciatingly long trips to the abyss are intended behavior :P but others may feel less cruel about it 23:53:40 moving the demonic rune seems fine too but the advantage of getting rid of the abyss rune is that it makes the abyss just have the single purpose of being a bad place that you sometimes have to escape from 23:53:46 bh: and expelling the player from abyss once rune is taken sounds generally good... would they be able to enter abyss again? 23:54:06 abyss is an extended rune for almost everyone 23:54:20 Even if that's a goal, the current generation strategy is lousy. Hooray. It's a Poisson distribution. We have no more fine-grained control over it. 23:54:22 very few people will ever willingly go get it before silver and lair runes 23:54:22 and so it can focus on that single purpose, instead of also being a place that you sometimes have to voluntarily go, so far it has proven difficult to make the abyss both dangerous for lower-level banishments and non-boring for higher-level rune grabs 23:54:35 If we moved to an exploration counter, we could trivially sample from whatever distribution we wanted 23:54:52 SwissStopwatch: I got my face blown off this weekend trying to ninja the abyssal rune in a 3-runer 23:55:04 bh: to be clear, I'm not sure about removing abyss rune personally... I think it's a really annoying rune to get currently but it could be made more interesting (maybe the things you were saying about rune vaults might help, as would getting to leave once you get the rune) 23:55:05 Entirely operator error 23:55:18 bh: I just thought I would mention it in case you had missed the discussion 23:55:19 the exit generation once you have the rune is really high anyway, that bit seems fine to me 23:55:30 most deaths are. I imagine you would be one of the most likely people to consider getting abyssal early I guess 23:55:36 elliptic: mhmm. I'll look through the logs when I have a chance 23:55:37 -!- dexap is now known as paxed 23:55:43 on AK I will maybe think about it, but almost never otherwise 23:56:02 A Spriggan with apportation should have an easy time of getting the rune 23:56:20 that's very untrue with a lot of the vaults I've seen 23:56:21 MarvinPA: it still feels bad when it takes 1000 turns to get out after getting the rune, which has happened to me 23:56:38 since many rune and exit vaults are a slog 23:56:45 abyssal rune is certainly at an all-time high for being hard/dangerous to get 23:57:01 mm i guess the abyss needs to shift once, maybe a shift should just happen shortly after you get the rune? i like that you do have to escape the vault after grabbing the rune at least 23:57:17 is an exit actually guaranteed after a shift? 23:57:27 not guaranteed but really really common 23:57:37 1 in 1250, I believe 23:57:50 per-space, right? 23:57:53 The map has 5600 tiles 23:57:54 yes 23:58:03 some of those are walls. 23:58:22 anyway I don't really see an issue with kicking players out of abyss immediately when they pick up the rune 23:58:25 elliptic: If we went with explusion, we could treat it like slime: Lucy is mad and won't let you back in 23:58:57 In general I think it might be interesting to give powers to runes apart from being macguffins 23:59:00 bh: I'd rather let players back in 23:59:01 -!- N78291 has quit [Quit: null] 23:59:03 that's a funny way to look at it given how banishment is a punishment more than a favor 23:59:05 increasing the exit generation as opposed to kicking you out also means if you get banished again later it's easy to leave 23:59:08 not letting players in causes various issue 23:59:08 s 23:59:13 but i suppose it could do both 23:59:15 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:17 bh: I expect he wouldn't be mad if you were a follower? 23:59:27 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 23:59:30 like exits from pan via abyss, escaping to abyss with distortion as an escape, etc