00:02:01 -!- Giomancer has joined ##crawl-dev 00:02:34 -!- HAPPYBASEDGOD has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:39 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:04:54 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 00:06:05 Unstable branch on crawl.s-z.org updated to: 0.14-a0-181-gf6fe0c6 (34) 00:06:52 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:10:21 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:30 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 00:12:43 -!- Arkaniad has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:22:15 -!- prefix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:54 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:27:59 -!- bh has quit [Changing host] 00:27:59 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 00:28:43 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:32:41 oops. I'd pushed that to the wrong repo. 00:32:47 03bh02 07* 0.14-a0-182-gbf86b44: Abjure summons upon summoner death. 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 10+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=bf86b4420e84 00:40:53 -!- HAPPYBASEDGOD has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:41:46 -!- magicpoints has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:56 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:45:13 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:48:35 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:49:41 -!- magicpoints has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:05 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 00:53:26 -!- magicpoints has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:48 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:19 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:18:26 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:20:10 -!- xnavy has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:26:36 -!- Nivimer has joined ##crawl-dev 01:38:44 -!- xnavy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:37 -!- dg_ has joined ##crawl-dev 01:43:17 -!- prefix has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44:30 -!- eb has quit [] 01:46:01 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:55:51 -!- brainwrinkle has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:59:05 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:00:46 Unstable branch on crawl.lantea.net updated to: 0.14-a0-181-gf6fe0c6 (34) 02:01:01 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:46 -!- radinms has quit [] 02:19:15 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:20:11 -!- hurdos has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:25:57 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 02:33:49 -!- ogaz_ has joined ##crawl-dev 02:35:37 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:37:51 -!- myrmidette has left ##crawl-dev 02:45:47 -!- minqmay has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:20 -!- _dd has joined ##crawl-dev 03:01:33 <|amethyst> lastlog amethyst\ said 20 03:01:35 <|amethyst> doh 03:03:46 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:04:26 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:07:54 -!- chlorine has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:10:06 any tips on how to deal with this: 03:10:12 Another game is already in progress using this save! 03:10:13 Hit any key to exit... 03:10:14 -!- ogaz_ is now known as ogaz 03:10:18 game froze. when trying to load it back up, I see that 03:10:26 webtiles, cszo 03:10:34 just wait longer? 03:12:56 <|amethyst> johnstein: hupped 03:13:45 ah sorry. didn't see your response here 03:14:10 it's back. thanks 03:14:27 -!- Nilsyn has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:14:35 -!- sumguy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:14:44 for future reference, is the solution to just wait a few minutes? or do I need to ping someone to kill the process or something? 03:15:05 <|amethyst> yeah, waiting a few minutes should fix it 03:16:06 ty 03:18:04 -!- buppy has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:27 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:22 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:48 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:27 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 03:28:40 -!- Sleeves|Away is now known as Assbag 03:30:36 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:30:57 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:06 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:33 -!- blackflare has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:44:21 -!- gammafunk has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:47:19 -!- Pepe has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:51:50 -!- zrot has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:56:20 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 04:04:54 -!- namtsui has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:15:22 -!- st_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:52 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 04:15:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:24:23 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:30:24 -!- Senjai_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:06 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:45:11 -!- whug has quit [Client Quit] 04:45:52 -!- url has joined ##crawl-dev 04:45:52 -!- Yermak has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:45:53 -!- shock_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121024073032]] 04:49:42 -!- Burer has quit [Changing host] 04:52:03 -!- Suga_H has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:44 -!- Gotham has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:20 -!- blabber has joined ##crawl-dev 05:03:49 -!- radinms has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:05:38 -!- Dalvant has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:31 -!- zrot has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15:12 -!- Poncheis has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]] 05:15:44 Assbag (L16 MiFi) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 612: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Abyss:1) 05:16:03 -!- namtsui` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:21:53 -!- blabber_ has joined ##crawl-dev 05:25:04 -!- blabber has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:48 -!- namtsui`` has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:03 -!- mong has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:50 -!- alefury has joined ##crawl-dev 05:31:23 -!- Bloax has joined ##crawl-dev 05:39:48 -!- MP2E has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:02:38 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:42 -!- bonghitz has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:08:54 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 06:09:08 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:54 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:11:33 -!- Assbag has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:34:41 -!- url has quit [] 06:48:58 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:04 -!- Ladykiller69 is now known as drahbeg 07:12:10 -!- drahbeg is now known as Drahbeg 07:13:28 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 07:22:35 -!- neuwiz has quit [Excess Flood] 07:24:34 -!- absolutego has joined ##crawl-dev 07:24:39 -!- neuwiz has quit [Excess Flood] 07:38:39 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/glowyitems.png Made some low-tier branded weapons stick out a bit more. 07:38:40 Bloax: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 07:44:10 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 07:53:02 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 07:53:15 -!- bh has quit [Client Quit] 08:02:19 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:12:08 !tell ontoclasm https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/63152810/GiantSpore.png Is this a better giant spore? 08:12:09 Bloax: OK, I'll let ontoclasm know. 08:29:03 -!- Naruni has joined ##crawl-dev 08:29:15 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 08:34:08 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-183-g8a95581: Fix pan lord descriptions often repeating themselves. 10(10 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8a9558196c37 08:34:08 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-184-ge9ceca1: Use a hash rather than the RNG for hashing. 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 29+ 24-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e9ceca1b6bd5 08:34:08 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-185-g8b63c98: Use more pghost fields than the name for "randomizing" its appearance. 10(87 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8b63c98e9b2e 08:34:08 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-186-gf844dbe: Use a hash rather than the RNG for deterministic passive mapping. Refactor. 10(61 minutes ago, 1 file, 13+ 13-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=f844dbe31ff1 08:34:08 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-187-g03bfcc8: Fix an info leak with passive mapping. 10(10 minutes ago, 5 files, 29+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=03bfcc8f827d 08:35:19 kilobyte: do you think my abjure change is sensible? I don't like that the summons pop on the next tick, but I think it's better searching all of the monsters 08:36:37 bh: a monster flag "has summons" 08:36:37 kilobyte: You have 1 message. Use !messages to read it. 08:36:56 kilobyte: sounds like a lot of bookkeeping 08:37:08 but even without, a brute-force search in 700 array elements is not noticeable 08:37:13 heh 08:37:23 off level summons would be an issue 08:37:32 heck, we do such search every time a monster spawns 08:38:00 why? It's not like every monster dies every turn... 08:38:29 no, finding them 08:38:46 I thought only the monsters on level were easily available? 08:38:49 hello 08:38:50 Naruni: You have 2 messages. Use !messages to read them. 08:38:53 !messages 08:38:58 (1/2) SamB said (1w 5d 20h 46m 51s ago): what seems to be the problem with formatted_scroller? 08:39:13 !messages[2 08:39:21 !messages 08:39:22 (1/1) |amethyst said (1w 11h 24m 59s ago): how do you want to be listed in credits.txt? 08:40:01 well yeah, but they don't load every turn either 08:43:45 I'm pretty OK with how it works now 08:47:31 -!- arcline has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:48 kilobyte: implementation details aside, I think the players will appreciate it 08:49:52 bh: why do we have random.{h,cc}, rng.{h,cc} and asg.{h,cc} as separate levels of indirection? Two could be enough. 08:50:51 kilobyte: because I'm largely a java programmer ;) 08:51:16 only thing rng.cc does beside trivial encapsulation is seeding it from read_urandom() 08:51:40 random should contain those functions that users want to call, rng should primarily define an interface for primitives that random can invoke, and asg is the concrete implementation 08:52:19 I'm shoving calls for flickering colours/etc to a separate RNG copy so we can have reproducible games 08:52:52 well, the workhorse is random_int(), which does just: { return get_uint32(); } 08:52:55 kilobyte: I think that's a fool's errand in crawl's codebase, but good luck. 08:53:14 There shouldn't be an issue with jettisonning rng.{cc,h} 08:53:55 bh: reproducible games already work for me, with a bunch of caveats 08:54:08 like "no changing window sizes" 08:54:19 ick 08:55:40 it's a massive help for reproducing bugs: I run randomized stress tests, with debug warnings made fatal, then for every crash it finds I can just restart the save with same seed 08:56:22 sadly, I got no crash to debug this way for several days :/ 08:56:30 definitely the right thing to do 08:56:45 but I guess that's a matter of not sufficient coverage rather than Crawl becoming bug free 08:57:01 It would be neat if we could set up a server to run a test battery for every commit 08:57:36 Xom and chaos weapons are pretty good for giving good coverage cheaply, but sadly not enough 08:58:05 Perhaps we should make test scenarios? 08:58:07 bh: there's "make debug && make debug test" but it's sadly pretty limited 09:00:53 kilobyte: I've never set up Jenkins, but it would probably be useful 09:02:07 I gave it a short look, but it appears to require a large bizarre Java setup 09:02:33 and wouldn't get us anything but that "make test" 09:03:03 actually, checking it compiles on X platforms could be good 09:03:14 [AFK] 09:07:21 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:09:33 jenkins can do all kinds of stuff 09:10:03 Eronarn: if you want to set it up, I have a build box to contribute 09:11:15 i could set it up but it wouldn't be much good without some test cases, which i don't have the time to do 09:13:19 we do need test coverage beyond "Tell a bot to do random things and hope for the best" 09:18:04 -!- radinms has quit [] 09:19:29 [back] 09:19:58 bh: having bots do anything the player can do should be quite good 09:20:14 also, adding test cases for specific bugs, but that handles only regressions 09:20:21 right. I could imagine more complex cases: 09:20:24 of course, regression testing is a good thing 09:20:43 Summon Kirke. Blast a hog with polymorph. Kill Kirke. Summon Pikel. Kill Pikel. 09:20:44 back later 09:20:47 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:21:01 mimics, of course 09:21:05 everything to do with mimics 09:26:48 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:11 -!- Fiveotanaka has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:50:27 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 09:51:36 -!- clouded_ has joined ##crawl-dev 09:53:37 -!- st_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54:01 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 09:56:24 -!- rossi has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 10:03:02 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:07:40 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 10:09:47 hm, is rhf not automatically updating? 10:09:59 %git 2341383 10:09:59 07|amethyst02 * 0.14-a0-102-g2341383: Correct a typo. 10(4 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2341383644ff 10:10:31 ??rebuild 10:10:31 rebuild[1/1]: http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rebuild/ https://dobrazupa.org/rebuild/ http://crawl.lantea.net/rebuild http://rl.heh.fi/rebuild/ Bug kilobyte or Napkin for CDO. Use your powers wisely. 10:13:03 !tell joosa rhf trunk seems to be stuck on an old commit, when trying to update manually i got a big list of errors and it failed: "error: unable to unlink old 'crawl-ref/CREDITS.txt' (Permission denied)" 10:13:04 MarvinPA: OK, I'll let joosa know. 10:15:08 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 10:19:18 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 10:21:20 -!- frank___ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:21:29 -!- TangoBravo has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:26:39 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:30:14 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 10:32:55 -!- Hailley has quit [Quit: Petra is closed!] 10:33:02 -!- Zet has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:33:15 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-188-g6cfc1f2: Remove unused code for a RNG stack. 10(2 hours ago, 5 files, 0+ 46-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=6cfc1f2ff4db 10:33:15 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-189-g4ee4bd8: Don't wrap low-level RNG calls twice. 10(33 minutes ago, 4 files, 51+ 66-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ee4bd8e3265 10:33:15 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-190-gc47ee9a: Rename rng.cc to hash.cc 10(20 minutes ago, 7 files, 67+ 75-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c47ee9af642d 10:33:15 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-191-gba44991: random3(), with a different RNG state. 10(16 minutes ago, 4 files, 38+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=ba44991f064c 10:33:15 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-192-g1758c0d: Use random3() for colour flicker and tile animations. 10(11 minutes ago, 2 files, 8+ 8-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=1758c0df4ec8 10:37:16 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 10:40:43 -!- axujen has quit [Quit: Gotta Go Fast] 10:43:56 -!- Burer has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:44:58 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 10:45:01 -!- clouded_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:22 -!- neuwiz has quit [Excess Flood] 10:50:32 Unstable branch on rl.heh.fi updated to: 0.14-a0-192-g1758c0d (34) 10:51:31 -!- reaver has joined ##crawl-dev 10:52:09 -!- UseBees has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:59 -!- ussdefiant has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58:06 -!- reaver has quit [] 11:10:41 -!- ketsa has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:41 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 11:13:17 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 11:18:34 -!- jeanjacques has quit [Quit: quit] 11:25:16 -!- Zermako has quit [] 11:40:07 -!- jday_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:29 -!- MarvinPA_ has joined ##crawl-dev 11:41:04 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:41:05 -!- MarvinPA_ is now known as MarvinPA 11:42:16 -!- myrmidette1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:48:17 kilobyte: this is for hash-reproducability? 11:51:11 * SamB reads the actual commits ... 11:56:21 -!- heteroy has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:58:16 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:27 -!- jday_ has joined ##crawl-dev 12:04:46 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host] 12:12:42 -!- gammafunk has joined ##crawl-dev 12:12:49 -!- caseyjones has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:16:13 -!- zxc has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:17:17 -!- caseyjones has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:10 -!- caseyjones has joined ##crawl-dev 12:18:17 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.14-a0-192-g1758c0d (34) 12:24:36 -!- thened has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:25:08 -!- Bcadren has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:52 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 12:28:39 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:27 -!- Leafsnail has quit [Quit: We be chillin - IceChat style] 12:37:26 ...random3? "| 12:37:28 :|, even 12:41:32 -!- Aryth has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:06 -!- HellTiger has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:04 -!- franklyn has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:29 -!- myrmidette1 has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:55:51 Eronarn: what would YOU call it 12:57:06 i use good programming languages so I'd do something OO for accessing RNG state :P 12:57:32 I think the idea here was to keep the code concise 12:58:29 while still separating the frivolous, glitzy uses of the RNG (which depend on configuration) from the gameplay uses (which don't), so that we can reproduce crashes more reliably 12:58:40 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 12:59:17 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:00:42 -!- Neuromancer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:01:28 -!- myrmidette1 has quit [Client Quit] 13:02:41 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:30 I only ever see random2 13:03:38 Haven never looked for random() 13:03:47 Does this mythical unicorn exist? 13:03:54 I think it might be from libc or something 13:04:23 random() is the BSDish libc RNG 13:04:43 which is variously horrible, I assume 13:05:03 (as distinct from rand() which is from v7, and ?rand48() which is System V) 13:05:20 all the libc ones are pretty bad 13:06:09 I mean maybe some implementations are okay but you can't trust it 13:07:02 there is often a need for reproducibility, which is why rand() these days is the same as rand() in the v7 days 13:07:10 (usually) 13:07:25 for example, when doing simulations you generally want the same seed to lead to the same results 13:08:37 -!- aisfluoc has joined ##crawl-dev 13:08:39 time frame until random27() is implemented? 13:09:49 -!- aisfluoc has quit [Client Quit] 13:11:28 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 13:12:04 gammafunk: anyway kilobyte's random3 is just like random2, except to be used for things like randomly-changing colors, so that things like how big the viewport is or whether the game is tiles or console don't affect the state of random2's generator 13:12:59 -!- aisfluoc has quit [Client Quit] 13:14:10 perhaps it should have been ui_random() 13:14:32 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:12 yeah, something that indicates what it is for is much better 13:17:30 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:18:24 -!- absolutego has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:21:39 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:30:07 Non-summoned monsters are abjured when their leader is killed. by CommanderC 13:30:41 whoops... 13:30:43 -!- CKyle has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:08 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 13:32:45 -!- korzok has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:34:24 -!- Drahbeg is now known as Ladykiller69 13:35:55 -!- nerdish has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:37:30 -!- CKyle has joined ##crawl-dev 13:40:40 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 13:41:00 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:41:51 nice 13:43:04 fr don't fix that bug 13:43:41 <|amethyst> btw, is there anything we can do to make removing a header not cause builds to fail? 13:44:00 <|amethyst> make: *** No rule to make target `rng.h', needed by `abl-show.o'. Stop. 13:44:03 <|amethyst> I had to rm *.d 13:44:28 not that I know of 13:44:28 make clean 13:44:35 the makefile is kind of a lost cause 13:44:43 well, yes, make clean is safer than rm *.d 13:44:44 I'm not sure that autotools can do this one right, though 13:45:16 <|amethyst> So the servers should make clean for every build? 13:45:32 <|amethyst> I guess it usually doesn't matter, since they're switching branches 13:45:52 for a really heavy hammer, git clean -dfx 13:47:44 yes, make is a *bit* simpler than it can possibly be, if you know what I mean :-( 13:48:27 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 13:48:33 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:48:41 switching branches means there's nothing to salvage anyway 13:48:58 -!- prefix is now known as HAPPYFUNBRO 13:49:05 <|amethyst> right, the problem is when someone issues a rebuild 13:50:05 it recently occurred to me that it would be useful if it were possible to specify that a dependancy should be treated as new if missing (unless there is a rule to build it) 13:50:19 Amulet ring slot always shows up on " by MarvinPA 13:50:38 -!- UseBees has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:38 suggestion: do make clean, but deploy ccache 13:52:40 -!- _UseBees has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:53:38 <|amethyst> maybe we should make the makefile do 'make clean' automatically 13:53:47 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:53:47 <|amethyst> I mean, as part of the rule for the binary 13:54:01 <|amethyst> no, I guess that's too late 13:54:16 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-193-gbe10f00: A whitespace fix. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=be10f00f4b64 13:54:16 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-194-g74ff12f: Spacing fixes. 10(3 hours ago, 3 files, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=74ff12fab855 13:54:16 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-195-ge32b9cf: Add a couple of assertions in low-level save file handling. 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e32b9cf8beb7 13:54:16 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-196-gb82e7e5: Fix amulet ring slot showing on '"'. 10(59 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 5-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=b82e7e557a33 13:54:48 -!- jeffrom has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:55:49 -!- mikee_ has joined ##crawl-dev 13:59:06 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-197-g87bc352: Don't abjure unsummoned band members (CommanderC, #7612) 10(9 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 6-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=87bc3525b301 14:00:10 did bh make a boo-boo? 14:00:46 <|amethyst> an understandable one, because why would you expect mons->summoner to be true for a non-summoned band member 14:01:01 indeed 14:01:20 maybe that's a bad name then ... 14:01:33 shouldn't be set in such a case 14:01:55 the field is meant for more than literal summoning, though 14:01:59 crawl must be pretty hardcore to worry about whether map generation affects the RNG 14:02:16 pi31415: of course map generation affects the RNG 14:02:24 <|amethyst> pi31415: kilobyte is trying to make games reproducible for debugging purposes 14:02:25 kraken connections (should pop), dancing weapon (shouldn't pop, probably), etc 14:03:00 |amethyst ah, now i grok, sorry for the noise 14:03:08 map generation is not UI-only state 14:03:28 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03:36 kilobyte: did you catch the suggestion to rename random3 to ui_random 14:03:47 not so much map generation as UI-only things like water animation 14:03:55 no, could be a good idea though 14:04:01 which are meaningless from a gameplay perspective 14:04:37 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:04:47 pi31415: the problem I'm trying to solve is: if you have a small window, there's fewer tiles to animate than on a big window, hence the number of RNG calls differs 14:05:34 and in console builds there's exactly 0 tiles to animate; you have elemental colours though 14:05:36 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:51 -!- __UseBees has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:07:51 -!- Morphy has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:57 * pi31415 reboots to test something 14:09:59 -!- pi31415 has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:12:01 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 14:12:44 -!- Tolias has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:22:12 <|amethyst> kilobyte: any thoughts on #7584 ? I tried the obvious fix of moving the border fill type into map_lines (suggested by due's comment) but could not get it to work properly 14:23:03 I'm afraid I don't know the problem :( 14:23:07 perhaps Zaba would? 14:24:11 -!- _UseBees has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:20 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:25:22 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:25:50 |amethyst: well, I think the simplest to understand thing would be to fill in the border on ' ' cells AFTER placing the vault? 14:29:25 -!- __UseBees has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:31:27 <|amethyst> when does the lua run? 14:31:41 <|amethyst> I thought it ran before that dgn_replace_area call 14:32:14 <|amethyst> I mean, it has to have run before place.apply_grid() 14:32:27 <|amethyst> and there's not really anything relevant between filling the border and that 14:32:46 -!- caseyjones_ has quit [Client Quit] 14:33:27 -!- Werehuman has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:33:54 <|amethyst> yeah, the vault_main() call above should have executed the lua 14:34:19 <|amethyst> but for some reason we still have the border_fill_type that was set in the map index 14:35:56 set a breakpoint on the function that is supposed to set it 14:36:35 -!- blabber_ has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:36:42 another on the line where it's supposed to be used, and also set a watch on the value after it's set 14:38:39 -!- Ladykiller69 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:41:49 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:16 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 14:46:34 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:49:00 -!- yxhuvud has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:22 -!- ainsophyao has joined ##crawl-dev 14:55:31 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-198-g2ee1d2a: s/random3/ui_random/ 10(26 minutes ago, 4 files, 10+ 10-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2ee1d2ac89c0 14:55:31 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-199-g8cd24cf: Fix broken wizmode item tweaking. 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=8cd24cffe702 14:55:31 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-200-g431fc43: Get rid of a dry_fountain_blue sighting. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=431fc43b0bc6 14:55:31 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-201-ga867f9c: After a save bump, rename save file chunk names. 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 31+ 25-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a867f9c5918e 14:56:45 * geekosaur *eyeroll* 14:58:51 -!- ainsophyao has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00:26 -!- Dr_Ke has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:02 <|amethyst> SamB: okay, looks like the fill is being set on the copy of the map stored in vault_placement 15:02:34 <|amethyst> which is not the one we take the border fill from 15:03:57 ah, that'd do it 15:04:31 so that's easy to fix right? 15:05:36 <|amethyst> yeah... there's one more use of the original vault after the call to vault_main 15:05:40 <|amethyst> we use vault->name 15:05:53 <|amethyst> but that's only a debug message, so I'm not changing that one 15:07:36 * SamB makes a note to use randomness in the NAME 15:10:03 -!- Valarioth has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:10:43 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:16 -!- MIC132_ has joined ##crawl-dev 15:12:24 -!- Crehl has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:50 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-202-g3afabac: Use the correct border fill (#7584) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3afabacf81d3 15:12:51 Cherry-picked 1 commit into stone_soup-0.13 15:13:05 Can someone here help me? I'm getting a compiler error when compiling newest trunk (just pulled from git) 15:13:31 <|amethyst> MIC132_: something about rng.h ? 15:13:35 <|amethyst> MIC132_: if so, make clean 15:13:49 Well, got that, made clean 15:13:51 but now 15:14:27 It gives me: in function .. hash32 .. "htole32 was not declared in this scope" 15:14:35 In file hash.o apparently 15:14:37 -!- _UseBees has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:56 <|amethyst> Windows? 15:15:01 Msys 15:15:05 So windows 15:15:29 Never had any problems though. And I'm doing thi (pull/make) for like two years.. 15:15:34 About every two days 15:16:03 -!- CKyle has quit [Quit: CKyle] 15:16:20 -!- arcline has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:16:49 <|amethyst> hm, how did that ever work? 15:17:12 What did work? 15:17:27 <|amethyst> I mean, I don't know how that code managed to compile in Windows before 15:17:46 Uh, why woudn't it? 15:17:49 <|amethyst> or, for that matter, on any OS, since we don't #define _BSD_SOURCE 15:18:04 <|amethyst> MIC132_: because htole32 isn't declared 15:18:28 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:41 Well, yes. But either was earlier, or wasn't used.. 15:18:52 Well, I mean, it did compile earlier.. 15:19:39 <|amethyst> oh I see 15:19:41 I thought g++ triggered that to be set 15:19:42 <|amethyst> we define our own 15:19:57 maybe I'm thinking of some outher __SOURCE 15:20:18 <|amethyst> MIC132_: does adding #include "endianness.h" to the top of hash.cc fix it? 15:20:21 (on account of libstdc++ headers requiring it) 15:20:54 Give me a sec, need to find that file. 15:21:42 why aren't we using inline functions for that 15:21:43 hash.o compiled after this. 15:21:58 Now to see if rest compiles. 15:22:16 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-203-gc45c64e: Fix Windows and probably other builds (MIC132_) 10(70 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=c45c64e77c03 15:22:19 Someone ate that include or what? 15:23:16 <|amethyst> %git 4ee4bd8e 15:23:16 07kilobyte02 * 0.14-a0-189-g4ee4bd8: Don't wrap low-level RNG calls twice. 10(5 hours ago, 4 files, 51+ 66-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4ee4bd8e3265 15:23:40 hmm, they really ought to add endian.h to POSIX 15:23:52 and these functions 15:23:57 I had no clue they existed 15:24:14 <|amethyst> MIC132_: removed a bunch of stuff from rng.cc (later renamed to hash.cc) but accidentally removed too much 15:24:44 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:51 Oh, so the file was renamed. I missed that.. 15:25:12 <|amethyst> MIC132_: but it happened to work on GNU systems, I guess because one of the system headers happened to pull in or 15:27:06 <|amethyst> the renamed/removed header is why the make clean was necessary 15:27:46 <|amethyst> the htole32 thing was unrelated (the required header was removed before the file was renamed, so it would have broken pre-rename too) 15:28:56 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:17 |amethyst: Yeah, I see now. The joys of programming. 15:29:32 Wait, do I need to put the "+" before your name for it to work? 15:29:49 hmm, so g++ predefines _GNU_SOURCE 15:31:13 which sort-of enables _BSD_SOURCE, except that POSIX takes precedence over BSD with just _GNU_SOURCE 15:31:40 MIC132_, no, just mentioning someone's /nick is enough 15:31:45 |amethyst: mystery solved? 15:32:15 <|amethyst> SamB: I guess... I don't know much about msys... I guess it has its own libc? 15:32:46 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:02 <|amethyst> MIC132_: the + is just the voice marker, like @ for ops 15:33:07 |amethyst: the mystery being "why did this work" 15:33:38 <|amethyst> SamB: yeah, it answers that one, but I had been under the impression that msys used glibc or something based on it 15:33:39 as for mingw/msys, they don't have glibc so it's no surprise that the functions aren't there either 15:33:44 <|amethyst> SamB: oh, okay 15:33:47 |amethyst: I guessed that. Just wasn't sure. 15:34:07 well, perhaps msys has glibc; I don't know 15:34:24 <|amethyst> These functions were added to glibc in version 2.9. 15:34:50 but I'm pretty sure we use mingw, not msys, for crawl, and THAT uses MSVCRT 15:35:34 <|amethyst> I thought msys was mingw plus a build environment 15:35:45 <|amethyst> with thinks like make, sh, etc 15:35:48 <|amethyst> things 15:35:58 msys has some wierd cygwin-lite thing going on 15:36:38 <|amethyst> MIC132_: did the build finish (or is it still going)? 15:36:52 generally the only things built to use the MSYS library are build tools, though 15:37:01 <|amethyst> oh, okay 15:37:40 |amethyst: It finished without errors and the game starts without problem 15:37:51 * SamB checks which make he uses in his setup ... 15:37:52 <|amethyst> nice, thanks for spotting the bug! 15:37:58 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 15:38:36 Well, hard not to spot it if I want to update and play but can't 15:38:42 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 15:38:59 <|amethyst> :) 15:41:47 sigh ... I have a godawful which.bat or so that passes control to sh.exe and then back to cmd.exe in order to coerce MSYS's into converting the path back to Windows style ... 15:42:11 all because they refuse to ship cygpath :-( 15:43:11 well I mean I'd have the script still probably but it wouldn't need to go through THREE shell instances 15:44:31 -!- Tux[Qyou] has quit [Quit: Excess flood] 15:46:34 -!- MIC132_ has quit [] 15:52:07 -!- dtsund has joined ##crawl-dev 15:54:40 -!- ophanim is now known as cookanim 16:01:11 -!- Morphy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:13:42 -!- kekekela has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:15:09 -!- Morg0th has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:15:34 -!- ogaz has joined ##crawl-dev 16:18:42 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:04 -!- bh has joined ##crawl-dev 16:21:21 |amethyst: eek. We were using summoner to track band leaders? :-\ 16:25:14 <|amethyst> "natural leaders" anyway 16:26:11 <|amethyst> see mon-place.cc:1113 16:26:18 k 16:26:34 blargh. 16:26:42 We should really just track that with a separate variable 16:27:06 <|amethyst> I don't know why it needs to be separate 16:27:10 <|amethyst> but it should have a different name 16:28:06 perhaps I'm not clever enough, but I didn't think for an instant that it would be overloaded for bands 16:28:45 <|amethyst> I wouldn't have expected it either 16:29:16 <|amethyst> and testing with &Morc warrior band wouldn't have revealed it, because orc warriors aren't "natural leaders" of their bands the way orc knights are 16:29:28 o_0 16:29:49 Not that we want smarter orcs, but it would make sense if we have hierarchies of leaders :) 16:37:07 -!- valtern has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:53 by the way, in ?v, the 0.14 description has a very wrong description of gargoyles 16:39:01 -!- jeffrom has joined ##crawl-dev 16:40:22 <|amethyst> and shouldn't even be there 16:40:26 -!- lobf has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:43:43 -!- bh has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:45:06 |amethyst: I guess it should be called leader? 16:47:44 -!- lobf_ has quit [Quit: lobf_] 16:49:00 <|amethyst> SamB: that would make sense; also the member of mgen_data with the same name 16:49:39 <|amethyst> SamB: Maybe it makes sense to also have mid_t monster::summoner() const { return is_summoned() ? leader : 0; } 16:49:45 <|amethyst> maybe not 16:50:04 -!- cookanim is now known as ophanim 16:51:14 -!- SamB has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52:44 seems like the "summoner" pack bug is fixed but not on cszo yet? 16:52:46 is this correct 16:53:22 not on any of the servers yet, I think 16:53:53 haven't see any server update messages since the commit 16:54:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-204-g196aa4a: Remove old gargoyle desc from 0.14 changelog (Flex) 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=196aa4a2a590 16:54:17 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-205-g13084f7: Be even more careful about what pops when its "summoner" dies. 10(12 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13084f7356a3 16:54:22 <|amethyst> correct, the servers haven't been updated 16:56:19 -!- Nightbeer has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:58:45 -!- SamB has joined ##crawl-dev 17:01:27 |amethyst: that does sound sensible 17:02:07 hmm, our logs aren't stripped of color-codes ... 17:02:35 <|amethyst> SamB: why would they be? 17:02:49 <|amethyst> SamB: if you click "view log" the colours will be rendered in the HTML 17:03:23 oh, didn't really notice that link 17:03:42 -!- pelotron has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:44 and it doesn't work in w3m anyway 17:03:56 <|amethyst> The link is there because some browsers (chrome) refuse to display a text/plain file inline if it has a control character in the first 1k or so 17:04:14 <|amethyst> maybe just the first line, I didn't test in that much detail 17:04:26 <|amethyst> Of course, stripping colour codes would fix that... 17:04:41 if we have a nice way to view them with color that's fine 17:05:00 <|amethyst> It could use some improvements 17:05:05 <|amethyst> it's kind of hard to navigate 17:05:35 <|amethyst> it's just a quick hack Wensley threw together and I expanded on slightly 17:05:51 <|amethyst> no one bothered making it *look* good :) 17:06:35 <|amethyst> you can even see the wonderful wonderful colour-replacing javascript if you view source 17:07:11 hmm, looks like we should check for existing htole macros before defining our own ... 17:07:35 <|amethyst> SamB: err, don't we? 17:07:37 oh good we do 17:07:56 yeah, I just missed it before 17:08:01 <|amethyst> SamB: we might #include and beforehand to improve the chance of getting them 17:08:15 <|amethyst> but that would break on systems without those headers 17:08:32 <|amethyst> FR: #tryinclude 17:08:37 <|amethyst> #hailmary 17:08:52 <|amethyst> oh, wait, I guess that term is an americanism 17:09:07 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 17:09:28 I've heard Sky UK announcers use it... 17:09:36 (granted, rarely) 17:09:43 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 17:09:43 (and not talking about NFL either) 17:12:34 wait, hail mary is an americanism? I would not have guessed that 17:14:02 |amethyst: hmm, well it seems likely that what we're doing already works everywhere that we actually build except __sun, since everywhere else we need BYTE_ORDER which also comes from ... 17:15:25 <|amethyst> ogaz: the use of the term to mean "an desperate action with little chance of success" comes from American football: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary_pass 17:15:42 <|amethyst> s/an /a / 17:16:30 |amethyst: I don't follow football so I had no idea; that's kind of cool 17:17:55 -!- eb has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:34 I'm a bit confused as to why my seems x86-only ... 17:18:52 -!- st_ has joined ##crawl-dev 17:19:46 ogaz: I meant to ask you, did you find the innate jump to be actually useful on your Fe? 17:20:34 gammafunk: yes, it let me close in on polearm characters and shooters and summoners more quickly. 17:20:57 good to hear 17:26:09 -!- arcline has joined ##crawl-dev 17:28:26 -!- MarvinPA has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:29:49 -!- pi31415 has joined ##crawl-dev 17:30:31 -!- MarvinPA has joined ##crawl-dev 17:32:29 ah, sid's glibc puts in a per-arch directory 17:39:09 -!- ackack has joined ##crawl-dev 17:51:28 -!- Rebthor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:56 -!- pythonsnake has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:04:24 -!- Kalir has quit [Quit: CADENZA-CLASS CLOCKWORK KNIGHT--OPERATION TERMINATED] 18:06:03 -!- Zaba has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:17 -!- Zaba has joined ##crawl-dev 18:09:58 -!- Gotham has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:43 -!- VolteccerJack has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 18:28:21 -!- ShadeTornado has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29:29 so does jump allow you to magically bypass clouds 18:30:16 <|amethyst> yes, you never actually occupy the cells in the middle 18:30:43 a little odd 18:31:01 kind of reminds me of using force lance to push something, pushing it beyond a fire cloud such that it never gets damaged by it 18:31:43 -!- caseyjones has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:32:54 jump pretty clearly doesn't have anything to do with physically jumping 18:33:03 <|amethyst> I made jump attack not work through grates, isn't that enough :) 18:33:07 -!- Basil has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:10 heh 18:33:21 -!- thened has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:22 elliptic: yeah it's more like cblink+attack 18:33:22 <|amethyst> yeah, if flying doesn't let you pass over other monsters, why would jumping? 18:33:48 fourth-dimensional jumping 18:33:49 also, why is it landing you on a random square next to a monster rather than the nearest 18:33:51 <|amethyst> ??scorpion_blink 18:33:52 I don't have a page labeled scorpion_blink in my learndb. 18:34:35 -!- Lightli has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:35:26 not that we don't have other utterly misnamed tactics in crawel (see: stabbing) 18:35:42 *crawl. there goes the typing again 18:35:52 -!- alefury has quit [] 18:36:29 well, it's clear what stabbing actually is 18:39:49 -!- indspenceable has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:21 -!- indspenceable has joined ##crawl-dev 18:40:26 -!- wheals has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:41 this is like you cast portal projectile and then threw yourself... you get an attack as you land, but you can't literally land in the occupied square so at the end you've ended up randomly next to the target. but you get the point blank attack en passant 18:43:29 it's like super mario or final fantasy 18:43:35 you land on the monster's head, and then bounce off 18:44:28 -!- indspenceable has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:31 holy crap, gargoyles can self-LRD? 18:45:46 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-206-g2b5c1a7: Update 0.14 changelog. 10(62 seconds ago, 1 file, 41+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=2b5c1a75f691 18:46:06 <|amethyst> yep, they're made of living rock 18:46:10 <|amethyst> so can petrifying players 18:46:20 <|amethyst> or statueform 18:46:25 I'm guessing the shards do as much damage as... what, rock? 18:46:37 seems like a really bad idea in any case 18:46:55 -!- Rebthor has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]] 18:47:24 <|amethyst> hm 18:47:39 Flex: I was guessing it would kill you if you did that 18:47:50 why would crawl let you do something to yourself that instakills you 18:48:16 <|amethyst> beam.ex_size = 2; beam.damage.name = 2 for gargoyles so somewhat less damage than a rock wall 18:48:25 <|amethyst> statue form does as much as a rock wall 18:48:32 odd 18:48:36 <|amethyst> err, .num, not .name 18:48:41 <|amethyst> and I see a bug 18:48:54 I seem to remember DracoOmega specifically making it do less because he worries enemy LRD on them would be too strong 18:49:13 worried* 18:49:15 oh, is that how much it does to you? 18:49:38 Flex: back in the day, if you tried to step into deep water, the game would say "Are you sure you want to do that?" or some such 18:49:43 ask me how I know 18:50:01 -!- wheals has joined ##crawl-dev 18:50:02 how do you know 18:50:02 backer in the day it wouldn't even say that and you would just die 18:50:13 how do you know? 18:50:28 Well I was near deep water for the first time 18:50:32 and I tried to step into water 18:50:59 that was when you had the option to press Y and die or N and not die 18:51:02 and it asked me "Are you sure you want to do that?" And I was like, "hey, if it asks me there probably has to be a good reason!" 18:51:04 And then I died 18:51:07 <+|amethyst> beam.ex_size = 2; beam.damage.name = 2 for gargoyles so somewhat less damage than a rock wall 18:51:08 |amethyst: Not sure these are changelog-worthy, but in case: landing sites must be non-adjacent to player if the target is already adjacent to the target, stabbing occurs with jump, but with a the stab type bonus nerfed (increased) 1 point, and you can jump over giant enemies if they are in deep water or lava (although the lava thing probably doesn't happen in-game). 18:51:14 put that in the wrong channel before 18:51:15 doesn't that mean that gargoyle self-LRD is actually worse than any other lRD 18:51:16 LRD* 18:51:35 I always thought rock walls were the lowest damage 18:51:46 like, rock < stone < metal with crystal somewhere in there 18:51:47 <|amethyst> stuff like bone and ice is lower 18:51:56 so basically, don't self-LRD 18:52:06 crystal is actually highest power I think? 18:52:07 what about petrified/petrifying monsters? 18:52:08 <|amethyst> gammafunk: I probably went into too much detail already :) 18:52:16 |amethyst: Yeah, probably so :) 18:52:20 we need a list of these in the learndb 18:52:29 <|amethyst> Flex: petrifying is the same as gargoyle, petrified the same as statue form 18:52:34 <|amethyst> ??lrd 18:52:35 lrd[1/4]: Lee's Rapid Deconstruction: Turns walls into explosions. Useful for removing inconvenient stone or green crystal walls, though one needs fairly high power to pierce stone, and even higher to pierce metal (see {lrd[4]}). Causes lots of undodgeable damage to anything foolish enough to be near the wall (but AC is applied thrice). 18:52:37 <|amethyst> ??lrd[2] 18:52:38 lrd[2/4]: LRD also works on enemies with varying effectiveness. Regular enemies are untargetable, but statues, most golems, and anything petrified or made of metal, rock, or ice will be damaged and spray fragments of varying range/damage. Skeletal enemies are particularly damaged and have a good, power-based chance to instantly die (including bone dragons!) 18:52:41 <|amethyst> ??lrd[3] 18:52:41 lrd[3/4]: Works on doors (open or closed), making it one of the more effective ways to open one from afar. Furthermore, it works (without destroying) on stone arches, and can majorly piss Beogh off when used on an orcish idol. It does nothing when the floor is targeted. 18:52:48 <|amethyst> ??lrd[4] 18:52:48 lrd[4/4]: You need the following amount of spell power to have a shot at destroying a wall: rock: 40, stone: 60, metal: 80. Green crystal has a 50% chance to be shattered regardless of spell power. 18:53:04 also see 18:53:05 where does statue form fall though 18:53:37 03|amethyst02 07* 0.14-a0-207-g2552120: Don't make statue form self-LRD weaker for gargoyles than others. 10(4 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=255212064412 18:53:43 I sort of feel like LRD could be made much simpler 18:53:56 my one complaint with LRD is that it's not very clear what does more damage 18:54:00 yes 18:54:05 some things are somewhat clear, like rock < stone < metal < crystal 18:54:20 but then there's bone, ice, statue form, gargoyles, petrified and petrifying not being the same, etc. 18:54:24 with no real indication what is what 18:54:34 unlike most situations where you can just try things out, you usually don't have access to all materials 18:54:46 <|amethyst> and the messages aren't helpful 18:54:49 yeah, and even then, good luck experimentally determining which does how much damage 18:54:50 what happens if you lrd unnaturally hard rock? obviously it doesn't get destroyed, but does it still send shards flying? 18:55:05 IIRC you can't LRD permarock at all. 18:55:11 <|amethyst> because they don't distinguish between different damage levels for the same "material" ("rock fragments" etc) 18:55:12 it would be hard for the messages to be that helpful given all the different cases 18:55:25 <|amethyst> Grunt: oh, I thought you could but it wouldn't break 18:55:33 how about making all of the non-wall types the same as rock 18:55:40 making everything identical except maybe crystal and metal could do it 18:55:48 or that yeah 18:55:48 I like elliptic's idea 18:56:00 metal and crystal are visibly different already at least because of the different radius 18:56:04 wouldn't that make LRD strictly better, though 18:56:13 ...yeah, you can't LRD permarock. 18:56:24 stone, metal, and crystal being different is okay 18:56:29 because it can be more obvious they're different 18:56:35 (and monsters made of those things, obviously) 18:56:46 Flex: not sure, I was including in there removing the chance of instakill from LRDing skeletal stuff (if that still exists?) 18:56:48 and it's clear which is better than which 18:56:55 it still exists 18:57:01 that seems fine to remove yeah 18:57:56 I kind of like it but I can't say I do for any spectacularly good reason 19:01:26 -!- Tarquinn has joined ##crawl-dev 19:05:30 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:58 -!- Danei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:07:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:10:44 -!- Basil has joined ##crawl-dev 19:12:50 -!- ahorribleplayer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:16:56 -!- heteroy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:30 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:22:21 -!- SurpriseTRex has quit [Client Quit] 19:23:33 -!- bmh has joined ##crawl-dev 19:23:48 -!- bmh is now known as bh 19:23:53 |amethyst: derp! 19:24:51 thanks for tightening up those checks 19:25:49 is there a reason why shattering an orcish idol only attempted to smite me once? 19:25:51 -!- Lightli has joined ##crawl-dev 19:26:00 I'm surprised you nerfed enemy summoners rather than player summoners again 19:26:01 the first time my god averted it, and every subsequent time it warns me but nothing at all happens afterward 19:26:16 (just want to say good job there) 19:26:37 Lightli: your summons go away when you die 19:26:40 but you're dead. 19:26:48 And I'm not special casing Felids 19:26:55 ok 19:27:53 -!- dtsund has quit [Quit: dtsund] 19:28:16 I think one of the issues with monster summoners is that when they get to spamming the best tactic is to run away until the summons expire 19:28:16 |amethyst: I never meant to use "summoner" than anything but ownership-like pointer; it looks that indeed that band_template uses it for leaders 19:28:47 kilobyte: I'd definitely prefer a "leader" pointer if it's being used in that way 19:28:54 bh: do you mean after killing the summoner (ie, before your change), or in general? 19:29:20 kilobyte: the way it used to work, if the summoner got a pack of nasty dudes out, you'd want to book it 19:29:37 bh: you can't be in a band and be a summon at the same time, the summoner field has a number of other uses already 19:29:55 bh: yeah, that's my main reason for making summon caps apply to monsters 19:30:01 overloaded meaning is gross 19:30:05 kilobyte: oh awesome! 19:30:18 While you're here, we should have a chat about nerfing Dj 19:30:53 bh: So you're nerfing discopan? 19:30:55 I don't especially like overloading it for leader, but kraken connectivity, spectral weapon, etc, are all fine uses for the field 19:32:26 kilobyte: heck, let's talk about Lava Orcs first. I think they'd work better if they were just speed 10 and didn't change speed 19:33:31 that and something with the heat aura 19:34:11 bh: is the doubled MP conversion rate really necessary for dj 19:34:18 -!- Bloax has quit [Quit: Error: Bloax not found] 19:35:05 kilobyte: maybe. I still think the speed change is the most problematic bit 19:35:13 Flex: don't know. I want to give them a hunger clock. 19:36:30 how so? the only hunger clock that remotely matters is sp 19:36:37 bh: I analyzed food vs glow clock, and it looks that all the former does is a small inconvenience for berserk, while the latter stops them from unloading 15+ firestorms in the late game 19:37:20 Lightli: It's an issue for healers 19:37:31 oh 19:37:47 I've never had issues with the hunger clock as a healer past maybe the very early game 19:37:55 healers are a walking balance issue already, that's not related to Dj 19:38:11 heh. 19:38:14 kilobyte: DjHe? 19:38:22 I never had a problem with glow, but I was playing DjBe 19:38:49 yeah, DjHe is more problematic than most healers, because indeed it's one of race cases where hunger matters 19:39:21 -!- fungee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:43 bh: berserkers' use of hunger is big one-time chunks that you never want to pile on in a short period of time 19:40:08 DjBe can literally berserk in every fight though early on, which other berserkers can't without starving 19:40:08 If we're allowing DjHe, why not MuHe? 19:40:10 unlike spellcasting where if you want two firestorms, you want ten 19:40:34 elliptic: yeah 19:40:45 !apt mu 19:40:46 Mu: Fighting: 0, Short: -2, Long: -2, Axes: -2, Maces: -2, Polearms: -2, Staves: -2, Slings: -2, Bows: -2, Xbows: -2, Throw: -2*, Armour: -2, Dodge: -2, Stealth: -1, Stab: -2, Shields: -2, Traps: -2, UC: -2*, Splcast: -1, Conj: -2, Hexes: -1, Charms: -2, Summ: -2, Nec: 0, Tloc: -2, Tmut: -2, Fire: -2, Ice: -2, Air: -2, Earth: -2, Poison: -2, Inv: -1*, Evo: -1, Exp: -1, HP: 0, MP: 0 19:40:48 !apt dj 19:40:49 Dj: Fighting: -1, Short: -2, Long: 1, Axes: -1, Maces: 0, Polearms: 1, Staves: 1, Slings: -1, Bows: -1, Xbows: 0, Throw: -1, Armour: 1, Dodge: -1, Stealth: -1, Stab: , Shields: 0, Traps: -1, UC: -1, Splcast: 1, Conj: 1, Hexes: 2, Charms: 0, Summ: 0, Nec: -2, Tloc: 0, Tmut: 0, Fire: 3!, Ice: -3, Air: 2, Earth: -3*, Poison: -1, Inv: 1, Evo: 2, Exp: -1, HP: -1, MP: 0 19:41:02 The sad thing is that MuHe would be worse than DjHe 19:41:17 Mu are really awful in comparison. 19:41:38 Mu apts were meant to be balanced by farming 19:42:12 ...why do we have a race based around farming in a game that tries to prevent it? 19:42:25 Dj have no theme reasons for Invo apts, so it's a no-brainer nerf 19:42:38 Lightli: hysterical raisins 19:42:47 kilobyte: is Mu more or less farming than Dj? 19:43:08 kilobyte: I vote -2 apt to invo 19:43:38 Healers are the only ones that want a really high invo anyways (barring I guess Fedhas?) 19:44:09 Dj of Fedhas is awesome 19:44:21 -!- UrQuan has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:44:23 I kind of have a plan for reworking glow costs, but I wanted not to do it shortly before branching/toruney 19:44:41 cat on hands, hard to type 19:44:44 We already branched I think 19:45:03 Will this rework involve a Haste nerf? 19:45:03 kilobyte: so that's where the demon names come from! 19:46:50 Lightli: glow glow vs food glow 19:46:59 so yeah 19:49:28 -!- WalkerBoh has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:49:54 -!- Senjai has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:50:47 bh: yeah the LO speed thing is quite frustrating ... 19:51:20 OK. Does anyone (other than Eronarn) have an issue with dumping temperature speed? 19:51:36 temporary mutations stop you from unloading 15 fire storms? 19:51:54 how about "you can't see to aim" 19:52:19 bh: Yes, in the sense of wondering why it hasn't been done yet 19:53:00 -!- Senjai has quit [Changing host] 19:53:24 it's too easy to get caught by something and die before your temperature goes high enough to be able to at least keep pace with your pursuit ... 19:53:36 clearly because LO are awesome and it's Dj which are stupid 19:54:09 -!- ontoclasm has joined ##crawl-dev 19:54:31 Lightli: I'm cool with making 'bold' changes, but I want to make sure I've listened to reason before mucking with stuff. Then again, if it's going in trunk, it's going to be everyone's baby. 19:54:44 ogaz: I agree, and I say this as the first person to have won a Dj 19:54:45 -!- ground4 has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:54:54 They are kind of ridiculously good 19:55:00 In the stupid way 19:55:02 I just mean stupid in the sense of 19:55:05 ??djinn faq 19:55:06 djinn faq[1/1]: Q: How do djinn work? A: No one knows. 19:55:49 Poorly balanced is one thing, but for literally everything that affects mp or hp, you have to ask "hey, how does this work for dj?" 19:58:19 Healers are the only ones that want a really high invo anyways (barring I guess Fedhas?) 19:58:20 zin 19:58:43 !lg . djbe won -log 19:58:44 1. bh, XL27 DjBe, T:189792: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/bh/morgue-bh-20130620-081447.txt 19:59:59 ... 20:00:13 27 ivo ;) 20:01:21 so, the kitteh lies belly-up on my hands and things and demands a tummy rub, a long session. I'm complying, but then, either I didn't rub him right or he had a different idea so he reaches up and bites me on the nose. 20:01:25 mph 20:01:31 ouch 20:01:57 and that is why puppies are better than kittens 20:02:36 kilobyte: 1. Put kitteh on keyboard 2. demon names 20:02:42 puppies smell, bark all the time, and have nothing in their skulls 20:03:50 -!- JaGGedTK has quit [] 20:05:25 -!- lobf has quit [Quit: lobf] 20:05:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:06:52 -!- Stupendous has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:00 as for 0.13, I think we should release days rather than hours before the tournament's start 20:08:07 !time 20:08:09 Time: Oct 07, 2013, 01:08:09 AM, UTC. 20:08:58 too late :p 20:09:03 kilobyte: One would be surprised what they knew 20:09:19 %git stone_soup-0.13 20:09:19 07|amethyst02 * 0.13-b1-33-g94b2e5f: Use the correct border fill (#7584) 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94b2e5f3d082 20:09:28 ...still 130 or so commits to go! :b 20:10:57 what happens in 130 commits? 20:11:09 %git 0.12.0^ 20:11:09 07Grunt02 * 0.12-b1-166-ga9ee58f: Fix typos in changelog. 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 3+ 3-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=a9ee58fbd0a2 20:11:14 %git 0.11.0^ 20:11:14 07kilobyte02 * 0.11-b1-178-g4818192: Butcher and chop up the config file message. 10(1 year ago, 1 file, 5+ 4-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=4818192ceb76 20:11:16 %git 0.10.0^ 20:11:16 07kilobyte02 * 0.10-b1-134-g94220d1: Sync manual from the wiki. (cherry picked from commit 34ff2aa5bab1202464aa74b2f78d004234a1ef6c) 10(1 year, 8 months ago, 1 file, 23+ 26-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=94220d193df6 20:11:25 (observe the number of commits before release in those branches) 20:11:31 "Lava Orcs have invented special fire-proof backpack" ... 20:11:57 -!- Zermako has quit [] 20:12:38 which also magically protects worn cloaks, etc 20:12:53 (fr: lava orcs can't wear cloth items) 20:12:55 are they immune to fire-based destruction effects? 20:13:19 bh: at least due to immersion in lava 20:13:29 where do manual entries live? If I'm nuking LO movement changes, I need to update that 20:13:37 Grunt: that's because 0.13 doesn't such as much as previous releases 20:13:50 bh: the wiki 20:14:05 https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php?id=dcss:manual:rest 20:14:10 iirc lo scrolls can't be burned by anything 20:14:43 bh: "make rest" if you want to sync immediately 20:15:14 fr: lava form 20:15:57 kilobyte: whoa.......... 20:18:06 -!- pelotron has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:19:31 -!- Flex has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:23:21 if you look up stalker spells (dig, petrify for instance) it says it can be found in the book of stalking (which doesnt exist anymore) 20:24:22 I'd say rip stalkers, but that would imply that I liked stalkers 20:26:23 building on this computer sucks. 20:28:02 rest in pieces stalkers 20:28:48 -!- simmarine has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:57 ogaz: St shatters into small pieces. 20:29:19 -!- simmarine has joined ##crawl-dev 20:31:14 03bh02 07* 0.14-a0-208-g3775fc1: Solidify Lava Orc speed 10(15 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 19-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=3775fc1cf22e 20:32:44 i think it is indeed a nerf but it's a good nerf 20:32:53 -!- dead_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:34:55 It's probably a nerf 90% of the time 20:36:11 -!- scummos^ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:46 -!- scummos_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:19 even walking at a slow speed was actually a boon: better regen/food and regen/turns 20:41:14 kilobyte: shouldn't that all be tied to AUT instead of turns? 20:41:39 there's quite a few remnants of turns 20:41:47 especially scoring 20:42:14 <|amethyst> bh: it is tied to AUT, but since score is measured in turns, it's better to be slower 20:42:14 lava orcs had it optimal: slow turns for regen while walking, fast turns when it matters for combat 20:42:40 |amethyst: does anyone other than the big kids care about score? 20:43:10 -!- kingbuddyboy has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:43:16 MarvinPA or elliptic (I can't recall who) proposed to have score use time, with a per-species modifier 20:43:19 <|amethyst> probably no one cares about turn efficiency unless they're trying for a high score, no 20:43:40 i think that was elliptic's idea (it wasn't mine at least, but it sounds potentially good) 20:44:22 some variants were discussed 20:44:23 2012-12-15.log:08:02 <+elliptic> one idea is to have a score turn counter, which is incremented by 1.0 by any movement action and the time used for non-movement actions 20:44:46 yeah I think there are maybe 10-20 people who actually seriously care about turn count, all I want is for my characters to not be farming 20:44:56 although that introduces a yet another counter 20:45:03 ogaz: I don't care about farming. I want my character to not be dead 20:49:15 bh: as for per-branch Abyss spawns: how should we choose the place to draw from? 20:49:33 mostly about Branch:1 vs Branch:$ on Abyss:1 vs Abyss:5 20:49:53 kilobyte: I'd upweight places if the player has the rune from that place >:D 20:50:34 <|amethyst> does anyone go to abyss:5 ? 20:50:38 -!- scummos_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:40 <|amethyst> !lm * br.end=abyss 20:50:41 908. [2013-10-06 22:45:05] nachodelamancha the Tortoise (L25 GrFi) reached level 5 of the Abyss on turn 72637. (Abyss:5) 20:50:46 <|amethyst> !lm * br.enter=abyss 20:50:47 43. [2012-05-02 15:19:57] ophanim the Skullcrusher (L25 OgBe) entered the Abyss on turn 76151. (Vaults:6) 20:50:56 <|amethyst> !lm * banished 20:50:57 No keyword 'banished' 20:51:00 <|amethyst> !lm * abyss.enter 20:51:01 65097. [2013-10-07 00:36:42] timbw the Basher (L14 HuFE) is cast into the Abyss! (wizard) (Lair:8) 20:51:18 well, you need to limit that to version which had Abyss:5 20:51:19 can you filter that by people who get the abyssal rune? 20:51:22 <|amethyst> !lm * recent rune=abyssal s=place 20:51:23 3289 milestones for * (recent rune=abyssal): 1391x Abyss, 781x Abyss:3, 575x Abyss:5, 542x Abyss:4 20:51:37 <|amethyst> I guess it's not as unpopular as I was thinking 20:52:10 -!- buppy has joined ##crawl-dev 20:52:38 !lm * recent rune=abyssal s=place o=place 20:52:39 3289 milestones for * (recent rune=abyssal): 575x Abyss:5, 542x Abyss:4, 781x Abyss:3, 1391x Abyss 20:52:44 can we get a plot of that 20:54:50 of what? 20:55:31 I guess an ASCII-art plot wouldn't be all that good though ... 20:57:23 see the lg manual, probably 20:57:28 -!- Pisano1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:57:28 ??lg 20:57:29 listgame[1/6]: !lg command displays info about past games. The manual is available here: http://github.com/greensnark/dcss_henzell/raw/master/docs/listgame.txt 21:00:01 next up, we should nerf Dj! 21:00:08 -!- Giomancer has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:20 I think they suffer from trying to do too many things. 21:00:20 one issue with portal branches: it could be interesting to have sewers or ice caves in the Abyss 21:00:50 -!- moohaus has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:58 kb: If you find some way to ram in chunks of encompass vaults, that would be fun 21:01:54 could work the same way existing levels work: you can't find levels you potentially could find, but only those you actually did 21:02:07 except, Sewer/etc get deleted when you leave them 21:03:43 Ice Caves would look boring without their tiles 21:03:53 actually, this applies to Cocytus, etc 21:03:57 bh: give djinni -7 apts in everything 21:04:02 all branches with a distinct appearance really 21:04:06 make it so no one ever plays them 21:05:12 so figure out a way to use the original tiles in abyss? 21:05:29 kilobyte: what if we pick a branch and generate chimeras from that branch? 21:06:48 -!- mikee_ has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 21:07:15 bh: not sure; chimeras don't look like being able to provide enough for a substantial population 21:07:40 SamB: one problem is that the current abyss code doesn't say which layer a square comes from 21:07:58 is there a good way to do that? 21:08:14 I don't know, abyss is bh's baby isn't it? 21:08:22 chimera seem like they would make for pretty bad enemies 21:08:23 yeah, and he's here 21:08:41 kilobyte: I mean, normal denizens + chimera 21:08:46 since you would have to examine them all assuming you see more than one at a time 21:09:07 MarvinPA: yeah, that's fair 21:09:15 if the region you're in comes from a real level, its appearance (wall/floor colours, tiles) should come from there 21:09:16 It's less of a problem for aboms 21:09:29 Slime Abyss would be obnoxious. 21:09:55 The Royal Abomination 21:10:04 probably; yeah. Features are already filtered, so you'd get rock wall. 21:10:19 Would fire radius be less bad if we made it corona dudes? 21:14:14 kilobyte: yeah, in 0.14 I might try to figure out a reasonable aut-based scoring formula, now that sequell has been tracking aut for a full version so we have a lot of data 21:16:54 * SamB wishes crawl could give him a listing of approximate numbers for all the blades he has to choose from ... discounting unknown slaying, obviously 21:17:49 -!- giantbat has quit [Quit: giantbat] 21:18:09 SamB: what do you mean? 21:18:20 ^F blade ? 21:18:30 03bh02 07* 0.14-a0-209-ge550c15: Circular Ruins Fixup 10(74 seconds ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=e550c159319c 21:18:38 well, I really just meant what I have in my inventory 21:19:09 then can't you count them? 21:19:16 * kilobyte doesn't get what you mean. 21:19:30 numbers for how well they work 21:19:51 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:20:46 -!- lessens has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:20:50 ie, damage values rather than the count 21:21:17 the thing about damage values is that brands and AC and such exist 21:21:28 dpeg hates providing such numbers, but for me they're nothing you already don't know if you know the formulas 21:21:33 so giving a single value that won't sometimes be quite misleading is hard 21:21:40 good point 21:22:15 a number for a fixed point in time also won't tell you what the numbers will be like once you raise your skills to X 21:22:43 -!- Roarke has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:22:57 I'm not necessarily opposed to providing some sort of guide to help people choose weapons, but it requires a fair amount of thought to decide how to do it 21:23:06 I'm okay with misleading numbers 21:23:53 <|amethyst> it's not like the current numbers aren't misleading 21:24:03 <|amethyst> 10 + 4 != 8 + 6 21:24:06 though it'd obviously be nicer if you could play with some hypotheticals 21:24:21 <|amethyst> or should I write that 10 +4 != 8 +6 21:24:30 -!- bonghitz has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:32 also, currently we don't have a great way of computing these numbers in-game since fsim isn't something we can reasonably run for this 21:24:38 up to three lines: "current skill", "decent skill for the weapon" (ie, mindelay), "max skill" 21:24:48 elliptic: random_var 21:25:09 right, I just mean that the code isn't currently written to track everything with random_var 21:25:25 brands/AC could be quite tricky 21:25:37 and EV too 21:25:49 I was figuring that the first approximation could neglect brands 21:25:50 as you're interested in damage per second rather than damage per swing 21:26:11 I thought crawl used AUTs 21:26:25 Grunt had mentioned adding Eldritch Abominations to the Abyss, but I have no clue what that entails 21:26:32 SamB: brands are probably the least transparent thing in current combat, though... they all use a different formula, and usually people want to compare weapons with different brands 21:26:43 hmm 21:26:58 bh, that was not a serious suggestion, for the record. 21:27:03 I thought brands just messed with the base damage 21:27:12 no 21:27:15 er, not base 21:27:25 some intermediate value 21:27:36 and/or did other things 21:27:55 Grunt: :( 21:27:59 -!- Tarquinn has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:02 Abyssal stair? 21:28:04 they basically all mess with the final damage, but some are additive and some are multiplicative, and resists affect them in different ways 21:28:15 bh: Tower of Madness sub-branch 21:28:43 so basically we want a consumer version of fsim? 21:29:01 elliptic: actually, that's pretty easy to compare for a given resistance value 21:29:05 with tabular output 21:29:20 kilobyte: if you know the formulas, sure 21:29:36 elliptic: elec does random2(25) 1/3 of the time? Easy with random_var, same as multiplying damage by 1.25. 21:29:43 kilobyte: right, I agree 21:29:59 kilobyte: this was all in response to I was figuring that the first approximation could neglect brands 21:30:39 <|amethyst> spells could use such a thing even more 21:30:50 basically, I meant that at least that would save the player a lot of work 21:30:51 <|amethyst> at least for weapons the game gives some info about damage 21:31:24 they would be asked to simulate that much less on their own 21:31:42 |amethyst: there are still a lot of subtleties with spell damage, like some spells ignore AC, some check it more, etc 21:31:49 SamB: currently we don't ask the player to simulate anything 21:32:03 instead we ask the player to play the game 21:32:58 what about this: http://sprunge.us/jUfC 21:32:58 |amethyst: also some spells do damage in weird ways, like chain lightning or static discharge 21:33:51 "decent" skill, or perhaps "recommended" would be mindelay for the weapon 21:33:52 kilobyte: ignoring accuracy/EV, I guess? 21:34:06 probably it should be called something more positive than "decent", yes 21:34:12 although "recommended" suggests you don't gain from getting more 21:34:22 no it doesn't 21:34:28 hmm, the table already denies that suggestion 21:34:29 the table shows you gain from getting more 21:34:30 yes 21:34:55 you're right about accuracy/EV though 21:34:58 kilobyte: another small thing: sometimes skills other than your weapon skill affect damage significantly 21:35:07 pain, enhancer staff 21:35:11 hmm right 21:35:31 -!- moohaus has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:35:31 also, with tables like this, how do we handle temporary buffs? 21:35:40 it was easy before you said "once you raise your skills to X" :p 21:35:54 i.e. berserk, might, song of slaying, whatever 21:35:55 elliptic: a toggle? 21:35:55 since your skills at this moment are well known 21:36:20 SamB: I'm trying to keep this as a simple line/three lines in a weapon's desc 21:37:07 well, if buffed for some reason it wouldn't be too terrible to have an extra line ... 21:39:06 of course, there's also the other issue with giving people actual numbers for melee damage: they'll naturally want numbers for all other attacks to compare too :P and they'll want monster HP ranges... 21:40:02 ie, KISS 21:40:18 hmm, what if we just picked a few sample monsters? 21:40:46 ("should I be using this crossbow with these steel bolts or should I be hitting with this axe? What about iron shot? or maybe this deck of destruction??") 21:40:54 Would a unique mimic be bad? 21:40:55 an evasive one, an ACy one, an omniresistant one 21:41:11 -!- gammafunk has quit [Quit: gammafunk] 21:41:12 -!- gammafunk_ has joined ##crawl-dev 21:41:24 bh: monstrous mimic (ie, orb mimic) 21:41:44 kilobyte: would putting an orb mimic in the abyss be awful? 21:41:45 kilobyte: sample monsters might be better, yeah, though less experienced players won't know what they are all like 21:41:55 yes it would be awful 21:41:57 bh: unique mimic would be bad, since non-unique mimics are already bad 21:42:01 elliptic: if they want HP ranges they can use %?? 21:42:19 SamB: last I checked %?? wasn't available in-game... 21:42:21 elliptic: I mean iconic ones, such as stone giant, whom you can expect to be hard but not evasive 21:42:27 elliptic: so what 21:42:28 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:44 @??stone giant 21:42:44 stone giant (15C) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 67-109 | AC/EV: 12/2 | Dam: 45 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(85), 12drown | Chunks: 07contam | XP: 1422 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 21:42:51 SamB: you can already check damage outside of game 21:42:53 12/2, no resistances 21:43:07 SamB: with fsim 21:43:13 unknown monster: "is a heck of a lot more convenient than fsim" 21:43:13 %?? is a heck of a lot more convenient than fsim 21:43:20 hehe 21:43:21 -!- ahorribleplayer has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:43:21 maybe we just need a fsim bot then 21:43:27 which looks at your dump and computes this stuff 21:43:49 Warning for Sublimation of Blood when rotting chunk disappears by Sandman25 21:44:30 bh: I looked at chimeras of arbitrary monsters. Looks like they hardly ever work; so current code which uses them only for a fixed list is probably a good idea. 21:44:59 kilobyte: sure, it's probably fine to use stone giant even if some people have never actually encountered them 21:45:04 -!- hart_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:34 -!- Daekdroom has quit [Quit: Saindo] 21:45:39 -!- nonethousand has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:45:43 not sure what's an omniresistant monster that a new player would recognize 21:46:27 @??statue 21:46:27 statue (158) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 8 | HP: 70 | AC/EV: 12/1 | Dam: 20 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors, master archer | Res: 13magic(immune), 05fire++, 02cold++, 10elec++, 03poison++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 561 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 21:47:07 not even omniresistant :P 21:47:39 probably some variant of golem 21:48:05 @??stone golem 21:48:05 stone golem (158) | Spd: 7 | HD: 12 | HP: 94-122 | AC/EV: 12/4 | Dam: 28 | 11non-living, 10doors | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 493 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 21:48:24 that's a lot of AC too though 21:48:26 heh, not so shabby EV 21:48:54 elliptic: that's ok, it's not like we have omniresistant stuff without AC 21:49:03 -!- Zifmia has quit [] 21:49:09 @??fire elemental 21:49:09 fire elemental (05E) | Spd: 13 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 4/12 | Dam: 004(pure fire:9-14) | 11non-living, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 10elec, 03poison, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 04napalm | Vul: 12cold | XP: 196 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 21:49:17 not omniresistant but has a lot :P 21:49:22 @??air elemental 21:49:22 air elemental (15E) | Spd: 25 | HD: 6 | HP: 21-45 | AC/EV: 2/18 | Dam: 15 | 11non-living, see invisible, lev | Res: 13magic(immune), 11elec+++, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm, 12wind, 04napalm | XP: 223 | Sz: Big | Int: plant. 21:49:47 I agree it is okay though 21:50:22 is there actually anything with 0/0? 21:50:59 yes 21:51:01 @??training dummy 21:51:02 training dummy (158) | Spd: 10 (07stationary) | HD: 1 | HP: 6 | AC/EV: 0/0 | Dam: 1 | 11non-living, 10items, 10doors | Res: 13magic(immune), 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 2 | Sz: Large | Int: high. 21:51:03 :P 21:51:19 I like how training dummies have high int 21:51:52 ogaz: just look at the average human in RL 21:52:01 ogaz: our species sucks 21:53:06 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:56:28 Debian builds of the trunk branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.14-a0-209-ge550c15 21:56:51 -!- Flex has quit [] 21:57:07 -!- moohaus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:00:51 -!- Morphy has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:00:53 -!- Pisano2 has quit [] 22:01:03 -!- hotsun has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:31 bh: in 2080303d (not in trunk) you add chimeras to the Abyss. Looks like those of abyssal monsters work especially bad, taking them for bags of stats and hp. 22:03:41 -!- Pacra has joined ##crawl-dev 22:05:15 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:05:19 kilobyte: :( 22:05:38 drat. I'd rolled up a few and didn't think they were especially bad 22:09:05 -!- ogaz has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:09:30 could work if you hand-picked allowed monsters 22:11:04 iron imp for the omniresistant? 22:11:32 (and for full-omniresistant the Hell Sentinel?) 22:13:10 @??iron imp 22:13:11 iron imp (105) | Spd: 8 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 6/8 | Dam: 12 | 05demonic, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors | Res: 06magic(12), 05hellfire, 04fire+++, 02cold, 10elec++, 03poison, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 40 | Sz: small | Int: normal. 22:13:25 rF+++ but only rC+ 22:13:29 huh 22:13:40 iron golem (108) | Spd: 7 | HD: 15 | HP: 116-151 | AC/EV: 15/3 | Dam: 35 | 11non-living, 10doors | Res: 13magic(immune), 04fire+++, 12cold+++, 11elec+++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | XP: 805 | Sz: Large | Int: plant. 22:13:40 %??iron golem 22:13:57 Iron golem would work for truly omni-resistant 22:14:17 (come to think of it, shouldn't it resist wind thanks to it's massive weight? 22:14:25 should Duvessa rage out if she's asleep when Dowan dies? 22:14:55 I say she should frenzy instead since she won't know who killed him 22:15:18 she shouldn't berserk before she sees the player because that is bad gameplay 22:15:22 not sure what else you mean 22:16:37 -!- dg_ has quit [] 22:16:39 won't the death screams wake her? 22:16:51 SamB: monsters don't have "death screams" in crawl 22:16:55 otherwise stabbing would be awful 22:17:00 point 22:17:44 the idea is supposed to be that the same telepathic bond or whatever that alerts one to the death of the other when they are not in sight of each other also wakes them up 22:17:45 jory does! 22:17:48 which makes sense 22:17:53 ontoclasm: point 22:18:15 idk if jory's scream actually makes noise, though 22:18:18 elliptic: yes 22:18:50 so they have telepathic deathscreams 22:19:14 SamB: that works 22:19:27 requiring seeing the death would be too abusable 22:19:35 that's even more horrific 22:21:35 fr: Jory's death scream makes noise 22:21:43 -!- moohaus has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:47 I encountered a weird data leak 22:32:08 I did find `leather` and it said "+1 leather armour" when I walked to it, it said "uncursed leather armour" 22:32:24 (Ash worshipper) 22:33:54 ash does identify plusses on stuff if you are wearing a cursed item in that slot 22:35:07 also -- `The wight hits you with a short sword. You feel drained.` And then when I killed him it wasn't id'd as draining 22:35:25 elliptic: it showed the plusses when I searched for it, but not when I saw it 22:35:48 that sounds strange 22:35:55 the wight thing is because the sword wasn't draining 22:35:59 wights have draining melee 22:36:17 wight (03z) | Spd: 10 | HD: 3 | HP: 9-24 | AC/EV: 4/10 | Dam: 813(drain) | 07undead, 10weapons, 10items, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(16), 02cold++, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 59 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:36:17 %??wight 22:36:55 elliptic: oh, that just gets added to any melee weapon they're using? 22:37:08 yes 22:37:18 -!- moohaus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:38:11 -!- gammafunk_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:45 maybe I haven't been paying attention, but "The wight drinks a potion. The wight is healed!" 22:39:48 -!- heteroy has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:40:04 mummy (15M) | Spd: 6 | HD: 3 | HP: 15-24 | AC/EV: 3/6 | Dam: 20 | 07undead, 10doors, evil | Res: 06magic(20), 02cold, 09poison+++, 12drown, 04rot+++, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 04fire, 08holy++ | XP: 18 | Sz: Medium | Int: normal. 22:40:04 %??mummy 22:40:15 scrolls I can see, but a wight chugging potions? 22:40:34 <|amethyst> ghouls can drink potions, why not wights? 22:40:39 -!- Valarioth has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41:07 |amethyst: I always figured them for more mummy-like 22:41:37 -!- magistern has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:42:51 A skeleton walks into a bar. "Two vodkas and a floor rag!" 22:43:13 aren't wights nearly skeletal? 22:43:48 -!- Zifmia has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:05 kilobyte: it's sort of a mix of an island and a peninsula 22:48:06 -!- Blazinghand has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:49:55 -!- dead_ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:51:06 -!- ussdefiant has joined ##crawl-dev 22:51:59 -!- lobf has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:47 03kilobyte02 07* 0.14-a0-210-g13606e5: Fix Harold mouthing off if killed while asleep. 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commitdiff;h=13606e559896 22:57:08 -!- ystael has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:00:08 -!- Taraiph has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 23:02:27 i think it's fine to remove LO speed in the interim, but once they lose heat aura and temperature gets a better formula, it should go back in 23:02:28 -!- ackack has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:01 -!- Aponym has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:03:44 -!- ophanim has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:54 -!- reaver has quit [] 23:09:21 -!- tureba has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:11:27 Eronarn: I think it'll be a tough sell 23:13:18 -!- moohaus_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:13:23 -!- mizu_no_oto has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:13:45 -!- Taraiph has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:28 -!- ontoclasm has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:11 -!- bmfx has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:16:52 <|amethyst> I think of wights as being more like intelligent zombies 23:18:08 -!- Zeph has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:19 they're more like stupid liches 23:18:26 <|amethyst> mostly based on this picture: http://www.dotd.com/mm/wight.gif 23:18:36 <|amethyst> wheals: I guess that makes more sense :) 23:18:54 i already have skeleton warriors on L, maybe i should move wights... 23:19:22 -!- simmarine_ has joined ##crawl-dev 23:19:37 <|amethyst> btw, we should somehow try to convince players they're pronounced "widgets" 23:19:41 wights are pretty zombie-like, yeah 23:19:50 <|amethyst> or maybe Donald thinks it's pronounced that way 23:19:51 you know they aren't skeletons because you can't LRD them! 23:20:21 -!- simmarine has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:31 <|amethyst> though Fedhas doesn't decompose them 23:21:13 interesting 23:21:26 <|amethyst> what that ability works on is kind of unintuitive 23:21:26 maybe that's because it's not clear what he'd decompose them to? 23:21:27 which makes them just like liches, no? 23:21:35 no lrd, no fedhas? 23:21:38 FR: wights decompose into skeletal warriors 23:21:57 <|amethyst> G-Flex: decompose kills ghouls outright 23:22:06 -!- magicpoints has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:24 oh 23:22:46 same for plague shamblers and necrophages, right? 23:22:55 -!- rax has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23:00 -!- Lightli has quit [Quit: Elena] 23:23:43 -!- rax has joined ##crawl-dev 23:23:53 <|amethyst> genus zombie -> skeleton, genus ghoul -> gone 23:24:31 yeah 23:24:40 <|amethyst> which currntly includes all and only the ns 23:24:43 great, now I'm picturing ghouls as not having skeletons at all 23:24:45 <|amethyst> s/rrn/rren/ 23:24:54 -!- codrus has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:24:58 <|amethyst> G-Flex: well, fedhas can destroy zombies entirely too 23:24:59 just floppy flesh dudes 23:25:05 he can? 23:25:06 aren't ghouls almost humans? 23:25:11 I thought that was only when the zombie didn't have a skeleton 23:25:16 e.g. zombie snails 23:25:28 <|amethyst> kilobyte: A truly horrible undead creature, a ghoul is a decayed cadaver, reanimated and 23:25:30 destroying them makes sense, though: a zombie doesn't flesh to survive 23:25:31 <|amethyst> accursed with a terrible hunger. 23:25:40 <|amethyst> kilobyte: whereas wight is: 23:25:43 <|amethyst> An ancient warrior, kept in a state of perpetual undeath by its desire to die 23:25:46 <|amethyst> with honour in battle. 23:25:55 that was more amusing without the second line 23:25:56 <|amethyst> from the descriptions, I think wight sounds closer to human 23:26:00 what is ghoul 23:26:07 yeah 23:26:08 <|amethyst> SamB: the first one 23:26:15 oh 23:26:20 maybe wights should just decompose to death then? 23:26:23 <|amethyst> well, that's part of the text 23:26:26 it's not like wights are super hard to kill anyway 23:26:29 <|amethyst> necrophage is 23:26:31 G-Flex: wights can decompose to Death, ala nethack 23:26:35 <|amethyst> A vile undead creation of the most unholy necromancy, these creatures are made 23:26:38 <|amethyst> from the decaying corpses of humanoid creatures. 23:26:39 -!- JuicyJ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26:40 Eronarn: never played nethack 23:26:54 so a necrophage is, what, the frankenstein's monster version of a zombie? 23:27:04 sort of 23:27:26 how is frankenstein's monster not a zombie anyway 23:27:34 it's sentient 23:27:37 Cigotuvi's Monster (13X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 23 | HP: 250 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 22, 17, 13, 903(constrict) | 05demonic, 10doors, amphibious, see invisible, 07vault | Res: 06magic(153), 05fire, 02cold, 10elec, 03poison, 12drown, 04rot, 13neg+++, 13torm | Vul: 08holy++ | XP: 5081 | Sz: Giant | Int: normal. 23:27:37 <|amethyst> %??cigotuvi's monster 23:27:39 frankenstein's monster is basically just a person 23:27:39 because zombies are magic 23:27:45 G-Flex: well, yes 23:27:47 frankenstein's monster is a flesh golem if you do the movie interpretation 23:27:48 a weird, messed up person made from dead stuff 23:27:50 otherwise, synthetic life, not undead at all 23:27:54 yeah 23:27:55 obviously zombies aren't really dumb 23:28:01 yred would probably hate frankenstein's monster 23:28:02 according to shelley 23:28:41 I have an idea, and that idea is not to try to shoehorn modern "zombie" crap into every classical work 23:30:03 -!- Xenobreeder has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:31:01 unfortunately we can't actually have frankenstein's monster in our game because he is not from medievil times :-( 23:31:40 actually he's probably glad about that 23:31:52 dpeg's 300 years rule is pretty dead anyway 23:32:26 thought question: do giant amoebas fall within the 300 year rule? 23:33:21 a wizard did it 23:33:50 microscope was invented in early 1600s 23:34:21 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:23 -!- Fhqwhgads_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:44 <|amethyst> 300 years gives us gunpowder 23:37:33 rod of bullets 23:37:43 I thought we already had one of those 23:37:53 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 23:37:55 just somewhat more obliquely named 23:38:35 does that mean that meleeing with rod of striking is actually pistolwhipping? 23:39:10 <|amethyst> it's a captive-bolt pistol 23:40:11 -!- pelotr0n has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:12 I think I was thinking of the shillelagh "Devastator" ? 23:43:27 hmm, no ... 23:43:41 <|amethyst> there's a shotgun in a branch 23:44:25 rods of striking don't shoot anymore 23:45:02 When applying the 300 year rule, just think: What would Jesus do? 23:45:04 -!- bh has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:45:42 doesn't really help 23:46:02 a great advice on MUDs and MMORPGs 23:47:02 -!- simmarine_ is now known as simmarine 23:47:03 abuse item-cloning bugs (like that one with two breads and five fishes), log in simultaenously on your player and admin accounts, etc 23:50:02 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51:05 <|amethyst> !learn add new_testament <+kilobyte> abuse item-cloning bugs (like that one with two breads and five fishes), log in simultaenously on your player and admin accounts, etc 23:51:06 new testament[1/1]: <+kilobyte> abuse item-cloning bugs (like that one with two breads and five fishes), log in simultaenously on your player and admin accounts, etc 23:51:17 ??bible 23:51:18 I don't have a page labeled bible in my learndb. 23:52:25 -!- oberstein has joined ##crawl-dev 23:52:26 -!- moohaus has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:53:22 -!- Senjai has joined ##crawl-dev 23:54:41 !learn add bible see {recite} 23:54:41 bible[1/1]: see {recite} 23:56:40 -!- oberstein has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:06 -!- Kalir has quit [Changing host]